**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 27 02:59:56 2008 Jun 27 03:00:43 which resellers have shipped them? Jun 27 03:00:53 mmontour, ACTUALLY Jun 27 03:01:04 You're not half wrong, surprisingly enough ;) Jun 27 03:01:31 * Dave grumbles Jun 27 03:01:34 thats not the answer we wanted to hear Jun 27 03:01:38 Glad that's over. Jun 27 03:01:44 linuxxr, oh, sorry. Jun 27 03:02:38 You'll be glad to know future shipments will not be held to such scrutiny, or so I have been informed. Jun 27 03:02:51 If you go to the openmoko.com page, and click on the "coming soon", you now get directed to a page asking for a password. Anyone know what's up with that? Jun 27 03:03:42 sweet Jun 27 03:03:54 Looks like they're setting up their servars. Jun 27 03:04:03 been there 2 days Jun 27 03:04:13 Darn, blew up opkg again :\ Jun 27 03:06:44 500MHz Samsung S3C2442 system-on-chip (SoC) processor Jun 27 03:20:15 silly apm bugs Jun 27 03:20:19 teehee Jun 27 03:30:39 how many here think freerunner is a bad name? Jun 27 03:31:04 better than Railer >_> Jun 27 03:32:06 Quake Rail Gun Master = Railer Jun 27 03:32:29 Free I get, Runner? is it a shoe as well? Jun 27 03:34:35 The name neo1973 had definate charm. It had a great "I care nothing for fashion" sensibility to it. Jun 27 03:36:02 do a google image search on free runner see what you get, those people who like to run up things for no reason. could have gone with TRON1982 Jun 27 03:37:22 u-booter! Jun 27 03:39:25 J-tagger! Jun 27 03:40:13 |Th Jun 27 03:40:18 The Oval Jun 27 03:40:54 i'm waiting for someone to make a phone and call it 'the brick'... :D Jun 27 03:42:59 I had "the brick" Jun 27 03:43:40 http://www.oaktreeent.com/web_photos/Telephones/SouthWestern_Bell_Motorola_Brick_Cell_phone_web.jpg Jun 27 03:44:12 but in the openmoko I still say call it the tron and here is the mascot: Jun 27 03:44:24 http://www.geekitude.com/Pictures/Linucon2004/Ex45TronUpCloseRot.jpg Jun 27 03:44:58 Oh dear god... Jun 27 03:46:36 come on that dude is classic Jun 27 03:46:50 One can only hope that PCB eventually has plate through holes. Jun 27 04:58:16 has anyone heard about some timeframe for the release of the freerunner? Jun 27 04:59:37 "Summer" :) Jun 27 04:59:47 ColdFyre: very early next month most likely, first few days Jun 27 05:00:24 * ColdFyre rejoices Jun 27 05:02:30 Some people are getting Freerunners now Jun 27 05:02:52 A UK reseller shipped some out; johnl and Tig| here got theirs today Jun 27 05:03:02 Hence the topic Jun 27 05:03:54 yeah, i'm looking at thier site now Jun 27 05:04:56 i wonder if i should wait a few months in case they make some sudden improvement or find some massive bugs Jun 27 05:06:25 whoa - I just got an email from the openmoko-announce list. Jun 27 05:07:18 "in about a week" .. is the answer Jun 27 05:07:32 ColdFyre: i'd say don't, bugs are constantly fixed same way technology is constantly improving Jun 27 05:07:43 ColdFyre: I'm waiting for gta03. I already have a gta01 Jun 27 05:07:46 it's like waiting for something cool to be invented before buying Jun 27 05:07:54 something unspecified Jun 27 05:08:34 Or if the software makes huge progress, I might buy an 02 and pawn the 01 off on my wife Jun 27 05:09:18 i just have the moto a780 which is begging to be replaced Jun 27 05:09:49 Yeah, if I didn't have an 01 I'd definitely be chomping at the bit for an 02 Jun 27 05:10:17 I remember back in November/December when I bought my 01, worrying whether I should wait for an 02 Jun 27 05:10:41 I'm definitely glad I didn't ;-) It's been "about to come out" for 9 months. Jun 27 05:12:19 oo openmoko is hiring unix sysadmins Jun 27 05:13:09 If you know it's a bad idea to do everything as root, and set the root password to blank, you're hired Jun 27 05:13:27 too easy.. Jun 27 05:13:45 Obviously not for OM Jun 27 05:14:19 my company just canned a guy that did not know change the listening port of sshd .. except rebooting Jun 27 05:14:22 wurp2|away: can you make calls on the 01? Jun 27 05:14:30 ozzloy: Surely Jun 27 05:14:57 wurp2|away: what provider do you use with it? Jun 27 05:15:00 AT&T Jun 27 05:15:05 Any GSM provider will do Jun 27 05:15:24 But getting internet access is of varying difficulty depending on provider Jun 27 05:15:26 (gprs) Jun 27 05:15:59 The stability of the software varies over time :-( Jun 27 05:16:09 I think the fso framework will fix that Jun 27 05:17:46 wurp2|away: i really want to get a new phone and the 02 is very appealing Jun 27 05:18:05 wurp2|away: do you use a bt kb with your 01? Jun 27 05:18:06 ozzloy: If you want stable calls, Qtopia is the way to go for now Jun 27 05:18:26 ozzloy: Yep; I'm using the iGo ThinkOutside Jun 27 05:18:37 cool Jun 27 05:18:38 ozzloy: There's also a sw kb, of course Jun 27 05:18:57 wurp2|away: what's the battery like on the 01? Jun 27 05:19:22 Being able to futz around in a linux terminal, scanning for bt devices, tracking your location w/gps, seeing what cell towers are in range is pretty cool Jun 27 05:19:27 ozzloy: crap :-( Jun 27 05:19:43 With suspend & resume, 24 hours life is about all you can expect Jun 27 05:20:01 suspend & resume are not stable now (although I think it is in some recent fso releases) Jun 27 05:20:02 wurp2|away: k. i think i can live with that Jun 27 05:20:13 good times Jun 27 05:20:14 and without it, you get 4-5 hours :-( :-( Jun 27 05:20:43 sounds like a developers phone still Jun 27 05:20:47 FR battery life should be a little better than that Jun 27 05:20:52 ozzloy: it is Jun 27 05:20:55 Yeah, the 1973 was never anything but Jun 27 05:20:59 maybe a good second phone Jun 27 05:21:03 And the FR still is right now Jun 27 05:21:32 I use it as my primary, but I lose maybe 1 call in 6 (never rings; gsm died in the meantime) and I keep it plugged into a PC most of the day Jun 27 05:21:40 or a usb charger Jun 27 05:21:49 wurp2|away: oic Jun 27 05:21:51 I think if I ran Qtopia I wouldn't lose any calls Jun 27 05:22:11 I should say, gsm software died. I think the hw is quite stable Jun 27 05:22:35 And of course I'm talking about the 1973, I have no direct experience with Freerunner Jun 27 05:22:53 yes yes Jun 27 05:23:02 i'm so glad to hear it Jun 27 05:23:19 i'm ready for a phone that doesn't have artificial limitations Jun 27 05:23:37 tthat aggravates me to an extreme degree Jun 27 05:23:56 yep, me too Jun 27 05:24:02 hi. Jun 27 05:24:04 So much so that I never bought a smartphone until the neo Jun 27 05:24:25 the FR has no artificial limitations, but plenty of real ones :-) Jun 27 05:24:40 (most of which are solvable by software, but not all) Jun 27 05:24:40 wurp2|away: i have a second hand phone that barely has color Jun 27 05:25:25 rwhitby: like what? Jun 27 05:25:35 rwhitby: the software could be considered an artificial limitation :) Jun 27 05:25:44 especially the drivers Jun 27 05:25:53 rwhitby: in terms of software unsolvable Jun 27 05:26:12 ozzloy: glamo performance Jun 27 05:26:23 ah, battery life Jun 27 05:27:39 wurp2|away: how's your signal on the 01? Jun 27 05:27:56 ozzloy: It's actually been quite good Jun 27 05:28:17 I visit my family in Arkansas (I'm in Dallas TX) and I have signal anywhere near a metro area Jun 27 05:28:17 my crapfone has crapreception Jun 27 05:28:23 In my case, I have a FreeRunner which will no longer charge it's battery, nor will it switch on either with an externally charged battery or with USB power. Jun 27 05:28:38 But none out in the boonies, due to lack of 950 mhz on the 01 Jun 27 05:28:50 rwhitby: Ack! Jun 27 05:28:54 rwhitby: ew Jun 27 05:29:08 I didn't think you even needed a battery in the FR to boot up Jun 27 05:29:11 If you had usb power Jun 27 05:29:22 If you've been following Steve's messages on the kernel list, it seems he has the same problem. Jun 27 05:29:23 does the 01? Jun 27 05:29:34 ozzloy: nope :-( Jun 27 05:29:42 booting the 01 with usb and no battery is a sure way to slowly kill it Jun 27 05:29:42 It makes this cool sound, though Jun 27 05:29:52 Which I'm told means it's trying to catch fire Jun 27 05:29:52 heh Jun 27 05:30:37 by "artificial limitations" i mean limitations actively put into place because they might eat into profits Jun 27 05:31:14 like not allowing users to set their ring tone to whatever they darn well please Jun 27 05:31:28 Go tell it on the mountain, man Jun 27 05:31:39 heh Jun 27 05:31:48 And not giving me my text messages in morse using the vibrator Jun 27 05:31:49 ozzloy: that's more your carrier, and the subsidised contract you entered into with them. Jun 27 05:32:04 ozzloy: let me guess, you're in the US, right? Jun 27 05:32:06 rwhitby: Yeah, but in the US it seems to be every carrier Jun 27 05:32:08 expect lots of "artificial limitations" Jun 27 05:32:13 not for profit reasons Jun 27 05:32:17 rwhitby: yes Jun 27 05:32:24 but because the wise ui designers have decided that you as users dont need options Jun 27 05:32:28 as its too confusing Jun 27 05:32:34 in countries where unlocked GSM phones are commonplace, you get a whole different experience Jun 27 05:32:42 and instead you will need to write software of your own and make your own packages to modify anything Jun 27 05:32:58 raster: that's a welcome change Jun 27 05:32:59 as the catch cry is "well its open source" Jun 27 05:33:14 the phones mostly have all the options. the ones manufactured for each carrier have the options turned off at the demand of the carrier. Jun 27 05:33:19 I must sleep Jun 27 05:33:25 y'all have fun Jun 27 05:33:32 thus you the user can go figure out how to modify the software yourself and figure out how to set up the openembedded build env to make packages etc. Jun 27 05:33:33 gnight wurp2|away Jun 27 05:35:36 wait, can you recommend a bt kb? Jun 27 05:35:50 or anyone in here? Jun 27 05:37:53 Ah, a bluetooth keyboard... what a novel idea; might be cute :] Jun 27 05:38:33 Dave: i imagine it would turn the FR into a note-taking device for classes Jun 27 05:38:47 i don't necessarily want to bring my laptop Jun 27 05:38:58 right. Jun 27 05:40:18 or an in car navigation set-up (point it at gmaps) Jun 27 05:40:35 heehee, yep. Jun 27 05:41:00 questionable legality Jun 27 05:44:35 legal shmegal Jun 27 05:44:41 right :P Jun 27 05:44:49 Railer, now now :p Jun 27 05:45:41 does the 02 have a camera? Jun 27 05:45:51 no camera. Jun 27 05:47:02 no upskirt piccies for you! Jun 27 05:47:03 on the one hand, i like that because i don't want a camera eating battery life Jun 27 05:47:21 cameras dont eat abttery Jun 27 05:47:23 unless used Jun 27 05:47:30 so it'd just be extra dev costs and hw costs Jun 27 05:47:43 oh Jun 27 05:47:47 and space? Jun 27 05:47:54 of course Jun 27 05:48:05 the gta01/02 are not very cramped for space Jun 27 05:48:10 theres lots of wasted space Jun 27 05:48:11 lots Jun 27 05:48:15 `tons Jun 27 05:48:19 mountains Jun 27 05:48:27 err.. tonnes Jun 27 05:48:29 hectares Jun 27 05:48:38 in part audio quality suffers because there is so much space Jun 27 05:48:48 audio out from the speaker echoes thru the case to the mic Jun 27 05:48:56 yeah, you get that cathedral like sound ... Jun 27 05:48:56 and thus we have to keep volume down on the speaker Jun 27 05:49:03 so make sure u dont get echo feedback Jun 27 05:49:51 heh Jun 27 05:49:57 interesting Jun 27 05:51:03 :) Jun 27 05:51:18 German cookies, blah. Jun 27 05:51:27 otoh (to finish that thought) i do image processing, so it'd be neat to have a camera on the device. maybe some interaction capabilities Jun 27 05:52:28 meh Jun 27 05:52:30 No thanks Jun 27 05:52:40 or at least make it modular. Jun 27 05:52:52 actually that's a great idea. Jun 27 05:52:58 though currently usb camera works fine :P Jun 27 05:53:27 Dave: oh usb camera! Jun 27 05:53:51 Dave: making things modular on such devices increase scost significantly Jun 27 05:53:54 increases size Jun 27 05:53:58 decreases reliability Jun 27 05:54:03 >_> Soo.. I just got here. Jun 27 05:54:07 What're we talkin' about? :x Jun 27 05:54:19 i actually have one, but i didn't think about connecting it to the phone Jun 27 05:54:22 as such the work to make a "pluggable camerA" module/slot/connector would be the extense of a whoile camera Jun 27 05:54:28 in addition to needing to make the camera Jun 27 05:54:31 and then buy it Jun 27 05:54:41 at this level of embedded hw and integration Jun 27 05:54:48 Camera phones suck. >_> Jun 27 05:54:49 just including hw is cheaper than making it optional Jun 27 05:54:57 Infinyte: why? Jun 27 05:55:16 Infinyte++ Jun 27 05:55:18 o_O Because the quality of the images usually do? Either that or the phone is super overpriced. Jun 27 05:55:31 u havent seen the good camera phones Jun 27 05:55:38 Simply put, it makes it a piece of shit. Jun 27 05:55:40 visit japan one day Jun 27 05:55:45 Seems more practical to just buy a phone, and a digital camera. Jun 27 05:55:45 I have the mathematics to prove it. Jun 27 05:55:52 :) Jun 27 05:56:03 <3 you Dave. Jun 27 05:56:06 if u ewant high quality - yes Jun 27 05:56:24 but the better camera phones are as good as your average compact camera Jun 27 05:56:28 If you want a myspacing women's lockerroom voyeuristic type of device, sure then Jun 27 05:56:35 they have the same lenses and ccd's Jun 27 05:56:38 5+mpixel Jun 27 05:56:40 Also if you want something which makes your phone more liable to damage and break easily, yep. Jun 27 05:56:48 yes the usb port makes good cam + phone a much better idea Jun 27 05:57:00 you ever use iphone cam? Jun 27 05:57:01 It's also a waste of space, and usually makes it awkward. Jun 27 05:57:13 Railer, it has a camera? :P Jun 27 05:57:37 and no instead i have a camera in my pocket and a hpone Jun 27 05:57:42 the total space is much more Jun 27 05:57:48 oh no! Jun 27 05:57:49 best blurs I ever took, sold them to the national enquirer, told them they were all UFO's Jun 27 05:57:50 now u add your mp3 player Jun 27 05:57:53 and so on Jun 27 05:57:57 hah Jun 27 05:57:57 and you have a tonne fo pcoket-lint Jun 27 05:58:07 and sagging pants :) Jun 27 05:58:13 a phone Jun 27 05:58:17 witha n "ok" camera Jun 27 05:58:31 But uhh, dunno about Japan's phones. But I still doubt the quality is as good as an actual Camera. In essence, the cost effectiveness in terms of what you're getting quality-wise is lower when getting a Camera phone as apposed to getting a phone and a camera seperate. The only benifit to getting a camera phone IMO is for lazy people who only want to carry around one thing. :D Jun 27 05:58:32 >_> Jun 27 05:58:33 that can play music (accept enough storage via micro-sd) Jun 27 05:58:39 will cut your pocket-lint down massively Jun 27 05:59:01 raster, see you in three to five years, man! Jun 27 05:59:02 :) Jun 27 05:59:05 iphone is 2 mega no flash = garbage Jun 27 05:59:15 2 years ago in japan they had 5+mpixel cameras on phones Jun 27 05:59:18 with GOOD lenses Jun 27 05:59:21 the same u see on compact cams Jun 27 05:59:22 yep Jun 27 05:59:37 dont knock the camera on a phone Jun 27 05:59:43 simply ask that it get done WELL Jun 27 05:59:44 I believe I am simply biased. Jun 27 05:59:56 and if u dont do it really well Jun 27 06:00:01 Though I do have some legitimate reasons behind my position, as well. Jun 27 06:00:06 then just throw a cheap-arse 2mpixel camera in with a crappy lens Jun 27 06:00:07 so it can take a SD and a mini SD at the same time? Jun 27 06:00:11 and dont pretend its good for photos Jun 27 06:00:18 its good for mug-shots of your friends for your phonebook Jun 27 06:00:18 :P Jun 27 06:00:23 thats it Jun 27 06:00:27 haha Jun 27 06:00:34 mugshots Jun 27 06:00:38 thats one great use for cameras on phones Jun 27 06:00:40 Too true, in this day and age. Jun 27 06:00:43 all my phonebook entires have photos with them Jun 27 06:00:49 so i can see who is calling at a glance Jun 27 06:00:51 >_> Haha, cause you can't remember their names. Jun 27 06:00:52 not have to read the text Jun 27 06:00:56 horrific. Jun 27 06:00:59 Kekeke, just kidding. <_< Jun 27 06:01:12 Railer: where? freerunner? Jun 27 06:01:13 zergrush? Jun 27 06:01:26 ok back to specs, yes freerunner Jun 27 06:01:29 Railer, it uses one microsd Jun 27 06:01:38 no sd? Jun 27 06:01:47 I thought both? Jun 27 06:02:10 Infinyte: dont knock it - have u ever shagged a chick and the next day wondering what her name is? taking a photo of her and handing her your phone and say "hey - can you enter your full name and phone number?" Jun 27 06:02:29 trying for the life of you to not look as if you just forgot her name even tho u were doing the wild monkey dance together all night... Jun 27 06:02:30 :) Jun 27 06:02:30 you take photos before, after or during raster? Jun 27 06:02:32 you can use both a microsd card and a sim card simultaneously, in a very awkwardly designed setup underneath the battery. Jun 27 06:02:44 Railer: just micro-sd Jun 27 06:02:53 Railer: under the sim card, under the battery Jun 27 06:03:05 as I said... ~_~ Jun 27 06:03:11 so sim and micro sd Jun 27 06:03:16 alphabeat: camera not good enough in the dark. enough for the mug-shot the next morning Jun 27 06:03:17 :) Jun 27 06:03:18 Yeah I think that'd be my biggest complaint. Jun 27 06:03:30 8 gig biggest micro sd Jun 27 06:03:49 they will get bigger Jun 27 06:03:54 i'm not sure if 8gb has been tested, only theoretical? Jun 27 06:03:57 Then again, I'm sure that will change in the next model, as it will undoubtedly have an additional flash chip or I would just throw in a top slot loader Jun 27 06:04:11 alphabeat, I'll try tomorrow Jun 27 06:04:12 i doubt it Jun 27 06:04:17 ah yes...the topic explains it all Jun 27 06:04:24 sandisk has 12 g now Jun 27 06:04:26 * goodwill tips his hat toward raster Jun 27 06:04:27 as a small manufacutrer is there ios little sense in including lots of onboard flash Jun 27 06:04:28 Dave: sweet. put your results up on the wiki Jun 27 06:04:32 its cheaper to buy an sd card Jun 27 06:04:33 sure Jun 27 06:04:54 u dont get to negotiate to buy $X billion in flash chips at once like apple does Jun 27 06:04:55 alphabeat, I was considering hooking up an external drive to the phone this afternoon, just for the hell of it Jun 27 06:04:59 and thus get insanely good prices Jun 27 06:05:07 that, and I needed mondo storage for one application I was testing at the time. Jun 27 06:05:36 Dave: mondo storage? you were crunching data on the FR? Jun 27 06:05:39 hi there Jun 27 06:05:51 no, precaching navigational data for a very large area :) Jun 27 06:06:26 can someone tell me if openmoko is actually ready for receiving call Jun 27 06:06:32 and calling Jun 27 06:06:37 Railer: did you do any research into customs by any chance? Jun 27 06:06:40 maps, routes, and other gps location data. in an attempt to do a cool display of a "trip" back and forth to some people I work with Jun 27 06:07:00 doc|home: hey! :) Jun 27 06:07:04 sybesis < interesting name, some kind of disease? Jun 27 06:07:19 haha Jun 27 06:07:26 Dave: hello, erm, do we know each other? :) Jun 27 06:07:36 * doc|home has a terrible memory for names :) Jun 27 06:07:38 Dave: sounds cool! Jun 27 06:07:42 doc not yet, Jun 27 06:07:54 Railer: got any guess at all? Jun 27 06:08:01 * doc|home has zero experience with this Jun 27 06:08:01 one sec Jun 27 06:08:03 mixing nemesis + siberia...but wrong typo made a y appear Jun 27 06:08:04 Alphabeat, I hope so! :) Jun 27 06:08:14 I wasn't able to get it all together for presentation today. Jun 27 06:08:17 could be a good name for a disease... Jun 27 06:08:23 doc, yes, we do ;) Jun 27 06:08:33 It's been a little while though ;) Jun 27 06:08:40 What did you want to know about customs? Jun 27 06:08:43 Dave: how? :) Jun 27 06:08:48 shipping, customs charge(broker), duty, gst Jun 27 06:08:56 Dave: cost of importing 10 phones into canada Jun 27 06:09:09 railer any idea what the duty would be? Jun 27 06:09:12 oh! Jun 27 06:09:24 I thought you were inquiring to the previous delays. Jun 27 06:09:30 which had to do with customs as well :) Jun 27 06:09:32 nope :/ Jun 27 06:09:37 Suspected terrorism! Jun 27 06:09:44 Opensource is terrorism! Jun 27 06:09:44 pffft Jun 27 06:09:50 everything's suspected terrism! Jun 27 06:09:51 According to the US :) Jun 27 06:09:55 haha, exactly! Jun 27 06:09:56 checking Jun 27 06:09:57 Dave: really?! Jun 27 06:09:58 open source is communism Jun 27 06:09:59 especially openmoko Jun 27 06:10:01 doc, yeah Jun 27 06:10:06 sybesis, you know it, baby! Jun 27 06:10:10 there are delays?! Jun 27 06:10:10 :P Jun 27 06:10:14 There WERE Jun 27 06:10:29 open source is free market communism Jun 27 06:10:37 but can someone tell me what we can do with the freerunner Jun 27 06:10:41 well technically open source IS communism Jun 27 06:10:42 so more capitalism Jun 27 06:10:47 I think I am going to make some OM accessories. Jun 27 06:10:48 Dave: ah, so, is there an expected date? Jun 27 06:10:54 if i could just receive and send call i would be ok Jun 27 06:11:03 ozzloy: lies, it is the free market at its finest Jun 27 06:11:16 No clues, but I do know there won't be as much of a significant customs delay now. Jun 27 06:11:18 ozzloy: something sucked so bad competition arose Jun 27 06:11:26 Dave: ok Jun 27 06:11:29 :) Jun 27 06:11:34 sybesis: a dude earlier said the 1973 would drop 1 in 6 of his calls Jun 27 06:11:42 Which should be good news to all those customers wanting a phone :) Jun 27 06:11:43 wish list, VOIP over wifi, GPS with maps, and of course porn Jun 27 06:11:59 now just worry about the truck getting hijacked by microsoft contracted ninjas Jun 27 06:12:00 :p Jun 27 06:12:09 or apple, even. Jun 27 06:12:16 ozzloy: fine i only receive 1 call every two months Jun 27 06:12:18 open source isn't communism, under communism there's no such thing as a fork, unless it's getting shoved into your eyeballs :) Jun 27 06:12:19 :P Jun 27 06:12:21 heh Jun 27 06:12:28 Railer, a perfect reason to hook up an external harddisk Jun 27 06:12:33 or install the nfs kernel module :P Jun 27 06:12:36 doc|home: only spoons due. only spoons. Jun 27 06:12:40 doc|home: only spoons dude. only spoons. Jun 27 06:12:42 i mean Jun 27 06:12:46 doc|home: what the heck communism is that? Jun 27 06:12:53 pffft, there is no spoon! Jun 27 06:12:58 haha Jun 27 06:13:02 nice, nice :) Jun 27 06:13:14 ozzloy: under communism, do you get any choice as to what you use or do you use what the state tells you to use? Jun 27 06:13:34 or what database your backend must be coded for :P Jun 27 06:13:42 heh Jun 27 06:13:43 * Dave giggles Jun 27 06:13:45 doc|home: are you thinking fascism? Jun 27 06:14:06 ozzloy: no, fascism is capitalism tightly embedded with governments :) Jun 27 06:14:18 with a socialist bent Jun 27 06:14:34 So, where does that leave OpenEmbedded then? :P Jun 27 06:14:42 Dave: libertarian, use what you like! :) Jun 27 06:14:48 or something ;) Jun 27 06:14:51 hah! Jun 27 06:14:54 doc|home: the only thing i know is that at the fall of URSS one friend told me there were ballet all days at TV Jun 27 06:14:55 yeah Jun 27 06:15:18 sybesis: better ballets than hannity and colmes :/ Jun 27 06:15:32 yeehaw! Jun 27 06:16:35 but i believe everything was from the gov but you still had choice in what there were in the markets Jun 27 06:16:35 The biggest thing by far will be settings/configuration applications :P Jun 27 06:16:46 the only problem was that the supply wasn't there Jun 27 06:16:48 Railer: so, any idea? Jun 27 06:17:20 It's like, WHOA, the hardware is so cooooool, it can do all this stuff -- oh wait, but how do I get it to do that? -- Oh, what, there's no support for this [yet] ? There's no applications which use this yet? oh, poo :p Jun 27 06:17:25 whee, the freerunner is so fun! Jun 27 06:17:38 sybesis: well, this is a discussion for a whole other channel (which is fine by me if you like) but there were no markets because the markets didn't exist. the idea of markets was whatever the government said was in demand. They controlled production. Jun 27 06:17:38 Perhaps this is why I am on the development side of things, heh. Jun 27 06:17:46 speaking of russian ballet, http://youtube.com/watch?v=KoQb8vb4blA Jun 27 06:18:15 i seen that video Jun 27 06:18:17 :D Jun 27 06:18:20 or ... russian dance Jun 27 06:18:38 sybesis: that's the problem with socialism in general, you lose the supply/demand signals that markets give you Jun 27 06:18:53 Dave: considering i know that for example 98%+ of things able to be configured can't be because the settings app explicitly was specified to not configure things. only the bare minimum - if that even, and thats it. Jun 27 06:19:04 tho its possible to change theme Jun 27 06:19:05 change font size Jun 27 06:19:18 add/remove gadgets to display status of stuff Jun 27 06:19:22 doc|home: unfortunately my experience is pretty low on that subject :\ Jun 27 06:19:25 no config ability to change that Jun 27 06:19:29 doc your best bet is to call ups they should be able to tell you everything Jun 27 06:19:30 sybesis: np :) Jun 27 06:19:33 raster, you got it! Jun 27 06:19:41 because all those options may be confusing Jun 27 06:19:44 Railer: I won't get the chance to do that, could you? :) Jun 27 06:19:59 my work situation doesn't allow it :) Jun 27 06:20:02 I wonder if they are open now? Jun 27 06:20:13 Hmm. Jun 27 06:20:15 hmmm Jun 27 06:20:17 dunno Jun 27 06:20:22 raster, I was somewhat appauled to discover that the OM build images don't package most of the modules, by default (with the rootfs). Jun 27 06:20:24 I'm worried about Android. Jun 27 06:20:25 I saw that Composition extensions were there! does that mean we could have a cool UI with transparency? Jun 27 06:20:26 * doc|home has zero credit now though :/ Jun 27 06:20:32 heh Jun 27 06:20:36 rut roh Jun 27 06:20:37 What if it smooshes OpenMoko? Jun 27 06:20:42 :< Jun 27 06:20:47 I need to know the size and weight of package and where coming from? Jun 27 06:20:52 sybesis: no chance Jun 27 06:20:52 spent too much time on that home, eh doc? ;) Jun 27 06:20:56 made in China I know Jun 27 06:21:07 Infinyte: smooshes? Jun 27 06:21:09 Infinyte: competition's a good thing, and that's unlikely, different markets. It's not really that opeb, Jun 27 06:21:11 smushes? Jun 27 06:21:11 sybesis: performance alone makes it a practical impossibility Jun 27 06:21:27 raster: got any idea on dimensions and weight of phone packages? Jun 27 06:21:30 right Jun 27 06:21:32 ok but its still possible Jun 27 06:21:39 doc|home: I could tell you exactly Jun 27 06:21:40 doc|home: ummmm Jun 27 06:21:42 not sure Jun 27 06:21:43 Infinyte: s/opeb/open Jun 27 06:21:44 really Jun 27 06:21:47 Dave: that'd be great Jun 27 06:21:51 I have several right next to me :P Jun 27 06:21:54 its not big Jun 27 06:22:03 o.O Ahh. Jun 27 06:22:07 granted it could vary by a few grams, if you don't get all the goodies Jun 27 06:22:10 raster: probably not precise enough for ups to guess duties :) Jun 27 06:22:13 yes, it's rather compact :] Jun 27 06:22:26 doc|home: just let them figure it out and charge you as needed Jun 27 06:22:29 Dave: that's no prob. I'm wondering about a 10 pack Jun 27 06:22:33 the size and weight isnt goign to change Jun 27 06:22:38 so it will cost whatever it costs Jun 27 06:22:38 raster: yeah, except I have some people wiring me money Jun 27 06:22:38 apparently US customs thought we were smuggling high explosives, if that gives you an idea :) Jun 27 06:22:44 ooh Jun 27 06:22:47 i see Jun 27 06:22:56 wow Jun 27 06:23:00 whats the link to group buy Jun 27 06:23:00 and I need the money before hand, don't have much of a credit limit on my card Jun 27 06:23:32 sybesis: it will be so slow, continental drift will seem like amazing action film footage Jun 27 06:23:33 doc, you want me to measure one of these cases for you? :p Jun 27 06:23:41 Dave: if you wouldn't mind, that'd be great Jun 27 06:23:42 raster, hah! Jun 27 06:23:49 Hay wayt. Jun 27 06:23:54 >_> Are you THE Dave? Jun 27 06:23:56 theres no acceleration for xrender Jun 27 06:23:59 pixmaps live in video ram Jun 27 06:24:05 video bus to/from video ram is slow Jun 27 06:24:09 Sure Jun 27 06:24:14 Infinyte: YES Jun 27 06:24:15 software fallbacks are going to be slow-as-arse Jun 27 06:24:17 FOR THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! Jun 27 06:24:19 Saweet. Jun 27 06:24:28 acceleration is in theory possible for a small subset of xrender - but nothing has been implemented Jun 27 06:24:44 i see Jun 27 06:25:12 haha, graphical representation of the accelerometer -- not such a great idea -- smells of seizures and dizziness :p Jun 27 06:25:16 teehee Jun 27 06:25:28 i was willing to do some custom toolkit because i believe gtk is something already pretty slow Jun 27 06:25:51 "THE DAVE"? i'm sorry i can't do that, "Dave"? Jun 27 06:26:01 * Dave stabbity-stabs ozzloy Jun 27 06:26:08 NoHal4U! Jun 27 06:26:24 oh geeze, oh no! /me spurts blood Jun 27 06:26:42 good morning Jun 27 06:26:59 so do we know for sure it's coming from fremont ca? Jun 27 06:27:01 Hopscotch, I hope you enjoy fresh blood in the morning :) Jun 27 06:27:12 fresh blood? you mean coffee? Jun 27 06:27:19 fremont!?! when!? Jun 27 06:27:26 Railer: I think all north american orders are from there Jun 27 06:27:30 Voip pleaz. :D Jun 27 06:27:50 * Dave gets a ruler Jun 27 06:27:54 morning Jun 27 06:28:01 ozzloy, no idea just guessing, dont get excited Jun 27 06:28:18 doc|home: inches okay? :P Jun 27 06:28:35 Dave: ask Railer :) Jun 27 06:28:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1j10CIAJk4&feature=related Jun 27 06:29:01 It's 7"x4"x3.75" Jun 27 06:29:05 looks interesting like gui Jun 27 06:29:07 Each unit, that is. Jun 27 06:29:11 Dave: the box? Jun 27 06:29:15 yep Jun 27 06:29:16 doc|home: really the north american orders are from fremont? Jun 27 06:29:16 1 min Jun 27 06:29:21 Dave: wow, that is compact Jun 27 06:29:25 indeed Jun 27 06:29:26 goodwill: I think so Jun 27 06:29:30 everything comes in a single box Jun 27 06:29:32 Railer: got that? Jun 27 06:29:36 Railer: then x10 Jun 27 06:29:57 x10 ? you mean x11! Jun 27 06:29:58 actually I took a bunch of the goodies out, since it's a pain to repack it all nicely in there, after taking stuff out :P Jun 27 06:30:06 sybesis: hah Jun 27 06:30:19 are we badmouthing qtopia now? Jun 27 06:30:25 Dave: yeah, we just need box dimensions + total weight per box Jun 27 06:30:30 doesn't have to be packed Jun 27 06:30:32 sure Jun 27 06:30:35 heh Jun 27 06:30:42 thanks :) Jun 27 06:30:45 found it on site hold on Jun 27 06:30:46 let's see if I have a scale around... Jun 27 06:31:10 For calculating shipping costs, the dimensions of one 10-pack is 435mm x 371mm x 119mm. The weight should be around 3kg. Jun 27 06:31:15 sybesis: neat phone Jun 27 06:31:22 Railer: cool Jun 27 06:31:40 yup it has video streaming i can't believe openmoko isn't able to do that Jun 27 06:32:10 doc|home: the only reason I ask is that there seems to be about 5 people in bay area for the second group and the LA group is lacking 2 Jun 27 06:32:14 i like the UI but it looks a bit confusing Jun 27 06:32:24 sybesis: things are much easier when you have it closed Jun 27 06:32:35 goodwill: *nod* Jun 27 06:32:37 ok what is the postal code for the fremont distribution center Jun 27 06:32:44 goodwill: is this groups of people looking to buy and share shippping cos? Jun 27 06:32:49 closed? you mean closed source? Jun 27 06:32:53 sybesis: yep Jun 27 06:32:57 cost* Jun 27 06:33:08 doc|home: so we in the LA group could potentially pick it up, drop off 2 phone in bay area and drive the rest to LA Jun 27 06:33:10 okay, let's see... Jun 27 06:33:19 goodwill: nice Jun 27 06:34:17 well i'll be driving from los altos to san diego this weekend Jun 27 06:34:18 Alright, doc. Each unit weighs roughly 1lb 3.6oz Jun 27 06:34:19 doc|home: if it is in fremont Jun 27 06:34:27 Dave: thanks :) Jun 27 06:34:35 Yep, I think that was everything too :) Jun 27 06:35:10 so i could pick up stuff if people want to trust some random irc man Jun 27 06:35:14 Oh it could vary by an ounce of two, since the early test models we received didn't all have a nice openmoko neoprene case :P Jun 27 06:35:15 Dave: the center is in fremont for sure? Jun 27 06:35:43 I need the postal code for distribution in fremont anyone ? Jun 27 06:35:44 Dave: are pick ups of 10 packs possible? Jun 27 06:35:54 I do not know. Jun 27 06:36:21 Railer: any one in fremont should do. It's not going to change the price as the boxes are going to canada. Jun 27 06:36:24 I have not been in direct contact with any domestic distributors or resellers. Jun 27 06:36:39 ok and postal code for fremont? Jun 27 06:36:46 Railer: no idea :) Jun 27 06:36:56 Dave: is there a contact information of any sort? Jun 27 06:37:06 I do not believe so, as of yet. Jun 27 06:37:14 They don't want to talk to you, yet :) Jun 27 06:37:24 * goodwill hangs head Jun 27 06:37:25 Railer, which one? ;) Jun 27 06:37:32 Be patient, ya'll :p Jun 27 06:37:33 anyone Jun 27 06:37:55 i think i got one Jun 27 06:38:01 94555 Jun 27 06:38:10 another question I had is about debug boards...if I am getting a phone part of 10 pack, do I need to order the debug board separately? Jun 27 06:38:12 Railer, planning on hijacking a truck? Jun 27 06:38:21 hahaha Jun 27 06:38:30 goodwill, just add it as an accessory. Jun 27 06:38:45 it will likely be shipped along with, provided you are ordering from a local distributor/reseller Jun 27 06:38:54 I don't see why not, though it's up to them, individually. Jun 27 06:38:55 Dave: I can add a singular accessory to a 10 pack? Jun 27 06:39:02 why not? Jun 27 06:39:04 ok Jun 27 06:39:06 just checking Jun 27 06:39:13 it's not like they seal the phones in a box and say, NO MORE. Jun 27 06:39:17 Fucking packaging nazis. Jun 27 06:39:23 true, true Jun 27 06:39:24 * Dave glares at UPS Jun 27 06:40:00 sybesis: Neonodes graphical user interface (GUI) and operating system running on the Microsoft Windows CE platform. Jun 27 06:40:06 sybesis: booo, booo Jun 27 06:40:11 :( Jun 27 06:40:23 actually dave, the boxes maybe a specific sixe that will not allow any more room for stuff Jun 27 06:40:32 Sure, it's possible. Jun 27 06:40:37 anyway i like the concept but i had something else in mind Jun 27 06:40:44 so much time, so little phone Jun 27 06:40:52 Then again, what does it really matter, if your primary concern is shipping costs, the debug board is even less than a single phone unit. Jun 27 06:40:57 openmoko doesn't actually have multitouch screen but we could still emulate it Jun 27 06:41:26 I am planning to put apache or lighthttpd on mine and freak out my friends Jun 27 06:41:31 I'm complaining because I have tons of phones and haven't received the new debug board yet, because of some stupidhead who placed our original order! Jun 27 06:41:38 piece of crap ups site dont work Jun 27 06:41:40 just to mess with them Jun 27 06:41:48 goodwill, heh Jun 27 06:42:00 iPhone my ass Jun 27 06:42:10 waste of a good iphone Jun 27 06:42:17 hard to extract too Jun 27 06:42:26 goodwill: that'd be disturbing to hear your arse ring when someone calls Jun 27 06:42:27 *mutters* Jun 27 06:42:35 irc'ing from the freerunner was less spectacular than original anticipated. Jun 27 06:42:42 goodwill some already has an asterix project going, how about the ability to change your called ID Jun 27 06:42:45 Then again, I didn't have any high expectations to begin with :D Jun 27 06:42:53 Railer: wow Jun 27 06:42:55 Dave: yeah, tried it on an n800 a while back, not exactly fun Jun 27 06:42:57 Railer: nice Jun 27 06:43:25 hah Jun 27 06:43:46 I'm not liking the look of the neonode, screen would be too low res Jun 27 06:43:56 web browsing for example wouldn't be fun Jun 27 06:44:04 I think I might try hosting an nfs share from an external hd connected to the gta02 via usb, tomorrow Jun 27 06:44:04 doc|home: but its so cool. it runs windows mobile! Jun 27 06:44:06 lol i was just liking the arrows Jun 27 06:44:08 :) Jun 27 06:44:15 raster: we need that like custer needed more indians Jun 27 06:44:21 What's this about a NeoNube? Jun 27 06:44:28 hmmm, is flash possible on FR? Jun 27 06:44:34 windows mobile? Jun 27 06:44:37 where did that come from? Jun 27 06:44:40 goodwill: as in camera flash? Jun 27 06:44:41 I do not knwo if there is arm compiled flash Jun 27 06:44:42 goodwill: flash? Jun 27 06:44:47 adobe flash Jun 27 06:44:47 doc|home: but all of custers indians are dead by now, so of course he needs more! :) Jun 27 06:44:49 OH, haha, like shockwave media content? Jun 27 06:44:57 though probably gnash is possible Jun 27 06:44:58 raster: as is custer, he doesn't need anything these days :) Jun 27 06:45:05 and swfdec I think Jun 27 06:45:08 doc|home: hehehehe Jun 27 06:45:19 You're crazy. Jun 27 06:45:24 oh and by the way, i bet qtopia or openmoko doesn't take advantages of the accelerometer Jun 27 06:45:27 flahs would be nicely slow on the fr Jun 27 06:45:29 meanwhile, everyone complain at the jvm people Jun 27 06:45:35 raster: so, give us the inside scope on new hardware? :) Jun 27 06:45:36 u'd only be able to use limited simple flash Jun 27 06:45:38 sybesis, not yet it doesn't Jun 27 06:45:46 yousplooge is not going to really be usable for example Jun 27 06:45:48 if we could have some xrender stuff we could just do rotate left right... Jun 27 06:46:04 and hope everything else resize correctly Jun 27 06:46:06 sybesis: xrandr, not xrender Jun 27 06:46:13 xrandr yup Jun 27 06:46:20 hmmm, flash on the n800 works, albeit not very nice, youtube for example jsut about works . it should be possible on the freerunner, right? Jun 27 06:46:22 and thats already there in x Jun 27 06:46:24 on the fr Jun 27 06:46:32 ewww Jun 27 06:46:38 but i can tell u now that even tho core e handles it right Jun 27 06:46:39 Youtube on the FreeRunner? Jun 27 06:46:39 doc, it's your funeral, man. :p Jun 27 06:46:40 i'm still learning x Jun 27 06:46:42 illume (module) doesnt Jun 27 06:46:45 doc|home: adobe compiles flash for arm? Jun 27 06:46:52 ahahha, no Jun 27 06:46:53 so a rotate/resize will lead to weridness without a restart Jun 27 06:46:57 small flash games would be great, flash is easy to program in Jun 27 06:46:59 doc|home: or is some kind of adapted stack Jun 27 06:47:24 doc|home: youtube on the n80 is.. bareful usable Jun 27 06:47:29 raster: would love to see what kind of weirdiness Jun 27 06:47:30 it drops lots of frames Jun 27 06:47:38 raster, let me put it this way, the freerunner on any os/image doesn't even work about 50% when 'swapping orientations' Jun 27 06:47:53 sybesis: i kn ow what kind :) i just dont have any requirment to fix it Jun 27 06:47:54 so i'm not Jun 27 06:47:55 it's all buggy and such, applications and screen Jun 27 06:47:57 Hey I've got a question. Jun 27 06:48:02 as i am busy with other (uselesS) things Jun 27 06:48:14 plus the lack of configuration is part of it, admittedly small :) Jun 27 06:48:15 unrelated to making a proper working enviornment Jun 27 06:48:32 raster, haha Jun 27 06:48:33 and mroe related to fiddling pixel sizes arouind all the time so desigenrs have their exact pixel-perfect designs Jun 27 06:48:40 for a moment there I thought you said, busy with the other hand :P Jun 27 06:48:41 I'm prolly gonna get a T-Mobile card for my Freerunner, and get the data plan. But it doesn't say what the speed is. Will I be able to get me sme hawt G3 speedz? Jun 27 06:48:50 Dave: hah Jun 27 06:48:52 *some Jun 27 06:49:02 Infinity, it's ~2.5G, I belive Jun 27 06:49:05 so, no Jun 27 06:49:11 goodwill: no idea, all I know is it works on the n800 which is arm also Jun 27 06:49:22 Aw. Jun 27 06:49:23 raster: sure, but just about good enough Jun 27 06:49:30 raster: when we find out who these designers are, we will wack them on the nose with a wet news paper Jun 27 06:49:43 raster: oh, and it's a big help if you don't try to watch the vids as they're loading, let them completely load up :/ Jun 27 06:49:44 doc|home: debatable. but ok :) i have it too on my n800. it's "just" barely usable imho Jun 27 06:49:51 openmoko is like a earth breaker Jun 27 06:49:56 took me a long time to learn that Jun 27 06:49:57 hah Jun 27 06:50:03 other vflash video doobies on other sites/places (magazines and newspapers) are utterly unsuable Jun 27 06:50:11 it all depends on the size of the video really Jun 27 06:50:12 raster: yeah Jun 27 06:50:18 (resolution) Jun 27 06:50:25 (and how much it needs to be scaled for output...) Jun 27 06:50:29 I'm so glad I don't watch internet content. Jun 27 06:50:31 (or if it needs caling at all) Jun 27 06:50:35 I'll never run into these issues. :P Jun 27 06:50:53 doc|home: didnt try waitign for the buffering before Jun 27 06:50:56 might eb helpful Jun 27 06:51:38 is there any project for people that own a server to replicate our calendar to a remote database? Jun 27 06:51:44 raster: aye Jun 27 06:51:57 ups is closed and site not working, im done for tonight Jun 27 06:52:13 Railer: want to try it in the morning? :) Jun 27 06:52:21 ya Jun 27 06:52:37 Railer: let you down :( Jun 27 06:52:37 ok, will be here, if you could let me know it'd be very very much appreciated :) Jun 27 06:52:45 its still just going to be a guess Jun 27 06:52:57 Railer: also, someone I was talking to from another group mentioned setting up a canadian user's group Jun 27 06:53:07 Railer: at least then I can know what to charge Jun 27 06:53:22 doc|home: where? Jun 27 06:53:27 * XorA looks for confirmation that the date isnt 1st of April Jun 27 06:53:27 Railer: what's gst now? Jun 27 06:53:27 there is canadian user groups Jun 27 06:53:37 5% Jun 27 06:53:41 Railer: for openmokos? Jun 27 06:53:47 yes Jun 27 06:53:51 oh? link? Jun 27 06:54:02 sybesis: where which? Jun 27 06:54:06 what why? Jun 27 06:54:15 errr i'll be in montreal Jun 27 06:54:18 how? Jun 27 06:54:19 hold on Jun 27 06:54:22 sybesis: ah, ok Jun 27 06:54:26 man i so need to work on a "desktop" for fr that doesnt suck Jun 27 06:54:41 just if there is a usergroup there i could "participate" Jun 27 06:54:45 sybesis: I'm in vancouver, Railer's in edmonton someplace Jun 27 06:54:51 raster: heh Jun 27 06:55:10 raster: doesn't need to be overly "shineh" :) Jun 27 06:55:30 the first thing I am going to do is figure out if I can change all the orange to some otehr color Jun 27 06:55:32 of course it does! Jun 27 06:55:35 raster: hehehe Jun 27 06:55:35 I heard the icons are svg Jun 27 06:55:47 goodwill: I think the orange was the old colour Jun 27 06:55:48 would you expect me to product anything that isnt all blingy - unless under duress? Jun 27 06:55:55 doc|home: really? Jun 27 06:56:06 doc|home: I have nto qemu asu yet Jun 27 06:56:07 raster: when you give into your better judgement on performance :) Jun 27 06:56:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Local_Groups:_Edmonton Jun 27 06:56:38 doc|home: i know how to squeeze the performance i want out of it... if left to my own devices. Jun 27 06:56:40 Railer: ah, no, not jsut purchase groups, but a long term user group, like a lug Jun 27 06:56:47 doc|home: I can not have a phone that's all orange...thats just trying to kill my eyes Jun 27 06:56:49 raster: *nod* Jun 27 06:56:56 i know what is fast and what comes for "free" Jun 27 06:56:58 and what to avoid Jun 27 06:57:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Local_Groups:_Montreal Jun 27 06:57:05 i beat you Jun 27 06:57:51 I should be working Jun 27 06:57:58 I should be sleeping, night all Jun 27 06:58:08 me too Jun 27 06:58:11 good night Jun 27 06:58:19 I wonder if it will kill fr to run postgresql on it Jun 27 06:58:20 sybesis: there's always one fucker who has to speak french ;) Jun 27 06:58:33 cause that will just kill my iPhone loving friends.... Jun 27 06:58:36 ahahh oui Jun 27 06:58:38 :D Jun 27 06:58:42 hehe, night Jun 27 06:58:49 i doubt it Jun 27 06:59:00 your iphone lovign friends will still show off their multi-touch pinching Jun 27 06:59:02 and fast gfx Jun 27 06:59:08 meh Jun 27 06:59:09 :) Jun 27 06:59:13 quelque chose contre les francophones? :P Jun 27 06:59:19 and I'll show them me installing shit without paying anything Jun 27 06:59:27 and for that matter - postgres could run on the iphone Jun 27 06:59:33 just build it for it Jun 27 06:59:36 raster: they already whine they do nto have compiz on their macs...I got that part taken care off Jun 27 06:59:43 its a unix phone too Jun 27 07:00:17 goodwill thats funny Jun 27 07:00:36 raster: yeah...but I bet noone has a iphone bsd substem package for it Jun 27 07:00:41 u'd not going to compete with the iphone on looks, speed, capacity, or anything that can be solved by just throwing money at the problem with high-powered hardware Jun 27 07:01:04 raster: look, I am going to have my fun regardless...stop ruinign it for me :-P Jun 27 07:01:15 the iphone will never be fully open and "Free" Jun 27 07:01:22 to hack with and screw with every bit u like Jun 27 07:01:29 raster: as logn as can put stuff on it they can not, that will do it Jun 27 07:01:32 uc an always throw postgres on mysql on Jun 27 07:01:37 u can port apps for it too eventually Jun 27 07:01:38 etc. Jun 27 07:01:48 but the freerunner will be free Jun 27 07:01:49 open Jun 27 07:02:00 raster: i do not care about hw the only thing i like most is to be able to put anything we like on it Jun 27 07:02:07 u know for sure that every bit you rely on in the software stack is open and u can hack at it - if u want Jun 27 07:02:13 and u can audit the code if u dont trust us Jun 27 07:02:22 raster: why, what did you do? Jun 27 07:02:26 :P Jun 27 07:02:35 (and thnk we put in back-doors and ways of allowing governments to access your private data and communications) Jun 27 07:02:48 speedloop Jun 27 07:02:53 the iphone can never guarantee you that Jun 27 07:03:04 iphone: nsa approved Jun 27 07:03:12 theres a black-box binary-only kernel, display system and other os utils/apps Jun 27 07:03:19 http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/06/securitymatters_0626 Jun 27 07:03:22 the same with ALL other phones Jun 27 07:03:26 closed black-boxes Jun 27 07:03:52 alphabeat: well.. i COULD put in stuff so every call or sms you send/recieve is recorded and relayed to me Jun 27 07:03:54 but really.. Jun 27 07:03:57 oh theres a thought are these phones approved by industry canada? will they hit the border and be turned back? Jun 27 07:04:00 why would i want to know all of that Jun 27 07:04:05 i'd get bored! Jun 27 07:04:06 :) Jun 27 07:04:32 Railer: i doubt they are approved Jun 27 07:04:38 we do have fcc certs tho Jun 27 07:04:49 raster: oh my conversations are pretty interesting! Jun 27 07:04:58 well a fcc cert will usually get you a pass Jun 27 07:05:01 FCC / CE, that should be enough to clear any border Jun 27 07:05:03 well not really Jun 27 07:05:07 yup Jun 27 07:05:16 we have those Jun 27 07:05:25 Sounds like in the montreal user group people have gta01 Jun 27 07:05:28 should be kosher then Jun 27 07:05:36 so there shouldn't be a problem with gta02 Jun 27 07:07:10 there are car usb chargers right? Jun 27 07:07:36 sybesis: gtood article - and if anything that is the kind of thing an open phone is intended to combat Jun 27 07:07:45 yup Jun 27 07:07:47 the ability for the world to control you and your data, your freedoms Jun 27 07:07:58 goodwill: well I have one so they exist :) Jun 27 07:08:00 comparing a freerunenr to the iphone is a bogus comparison Jun 27 07:08:02 imagine your attacked by a bear Jun 27 07:08:20 raster: ok...I was not comparing.... Jun 27 07:08:28 raster why? ones a phone the other a hamster? Jun 27 07:08:30 and unfortunately your a zone you cant use your phone to make some high frequency noise to scare the bear Jun 27 07:08:31 if u go around saying "but iphone has multitouch" or "iphione has a faster cpu" or "iphone has 3g" or whatever Jun 27 07:08:35 as we're not about that Jun 27 07:08:45 raster: I said I am planning to put things on it that iPhone users can not...and make them said Jun 27 07:08:47 and frankly it will be a long time until we can compete in the space of spec-wars Jun 27 07:08:53 raster: can I please have my fun? Jun 27 07:08:57 we dont have the purchasing or development power of our competitors Jun 27 07:09:06 goodwill: you can Jun 27 07:09:10 not stopping you Jun 27 07:09:11 :) Jun 27 07:09:12 raster: thank you Jun 27 07:09:14 :-P Jun 27 07:09:23 raster: you don't actually need multitouch for most things the screen is too small anyway Jun 27 07:09:27 but dont "fool" yourself into thinking the FR is something that it isn';t Jun 27 07:09:28 :) Jun 27 07:09:31 raster who are you? a engineer or developer? Jun 27 07:09:41 ouch Jun 27 07:09:51 raster: I use a super crappy 3 year old phone now Jun 27 07:09:52 Railer: yo momma Jun 27 07:09:55 :) Jun 27 07:10:18 hey, a friend told me yesterday about some precompiled binaries for qemu - i only find some over the wiki for win32 - has someone of you an idea where i can get those? Jun 27 07:10:41 i did not mean to offend, you sounded like someone in "the know" Jun 27 07:10:41 raster: I do not care about latest and greatest...just about openness, ability to chnage the device to fit me Jun 27 07:10:53 im using the mokomakefile right now, but would be interesting and much easer for me :> Jun 27 07:10:57 neldoreth: are you running linux or windows? Jun 27 07:11:01 goodwill linux Jun 27 07:11:14 I just want something different unique and cool, with wifi Jun 27 07:11:17 Railer: i just had to use that line :) Jun 27 07:11:22 neldoreth: compiling is what you want to go with, its pretty fast Jun 27 07:11:24 Railer: whats the difference? engineer? developer? Jun 27 07:11:26 neldoreth: which distro? Jun 27 07:11:27 same thing Jun 27 07:11:33 goodwill : archlinux Jun 27 07:11:52 engineer hardware, developer software, Jun 27 07:12:03 neldoreth: you are going to need gcc 3.3 or 3.4 Jun 27 07:12:11 neldoreth: and the make qemu Jun 27 07:12:11 manager cash Jun 27 07:12:21 goodwill : ah ok i got 4.3 Jun 27 07:12:34 neldoreth: and then make run-qemu (or make run-qemu-snapshot) Jun 27 07:12:46 engineer is for management too Jun 27 07:12:48 neldoreth: 4.3 is not good, it only compiles with 3.3 or 3.4 Jun 27 07:12:57 like how the app will be Jun 27 07:13:04 engineer with an MBA maybe Jun 27 07:13:11 goodwill : ok thx for the help - i will get the 3.4 now and try it :) Jun 27 07:13:22 the developer will do what the engineer told him to Jun 27 07:13:33 thats what engineer is here btw Jun 27 07:13:54 Railer: developer then. Jun 27 07:13:58 (software engineer) Jun 27 07:14:11 neldoreth: http://www.archlinux.org/packages/search/?q=gcc Jun 27 07:14:21 neldoreth: if 3.4 fails, try 3.3 Jun 27 07:14:30 neldoreth: it fails for me on gentoo Jun 27 07:14:33 goodwill yeah thats where i am already :D Jun 27 07:14:43 goodwill ok then i will try 3.3 before Jun 27 07:14:45 software engineer, just a programmer trying to look cool Jun 27 07:15:08 wel i sudied software engineering Jun 27 07:15:17 thats what the actual degree is called Jun 27 07:15:20 goodwill: i had it compiling with fedora 8 gcc 4.3 Jun 27 07:15:23 so you go argue with the university Jun 27 07:15:36 unless it installed old gcc without asking me Jun 27 07:15:45 * stefan_schmidt mumbles something about lead of graphics Jun 27 07:15:48 yo yo raster Jun 27 07:15:51 " wel i sudied " well you spell like an engineer Jun 27 07:15:52 sybesis: you had openmoko modified qemu copile under 4.3 ? Jun 27 07:16:16 goodwill: no modification Jun 27 07:16:27 openmoko: 03zecke * r30a442556fc7 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Revert various changes to Qt to layout, resize and paint only once Jun 27 07:16:27 openmoko: 03zecke * r708bb8a2206d 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: Revert "The ContextLabel was not updated for the "missed call" messagebox on qpe launch." Jun 27 07:16:27 openmoko: 03zecke * r69cc4bc30ea1 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qwidget_x11.cpp: [x11] Do not wait for the window manager, do something more useful Jun 27 07:16:29 openmoko: 03zecke * r7f4f8fcd35ab 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qwidget_x11.cpp: [x11] Set our wanted size before the WM got a chanche to set the size. Jun 27 07:16:32 openmoko: 03zecke * r862d64df0b1e 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [x11] Do not layout/resize/move/update until X11 tells us to do so Jun 27 07:16:33 * XorA wonders what classification you get if your a qualified hardware engineer that does software :-) Jun 27 07:16:35 sybesis: openmoko qemu, not that one official one right? Jun 27 07:16:36 been writing, designing, optimising and everything else to do with software for 20+ years Jun 27 07:16:40 stefan_schmidt: yo yo! Jun 27 07:16:43 XorA: none? ;) Jun 27 07:16:53 goodwill give me the url i'll try it right now Jun 27 07:17:01 Railer: i can spell. i just typo. i likely can spell better than most. Jun 27 07:17:06 i'm a bit lost with the wiki Jun 27 07:17:16 XorA: That's new for me that you'r a hw engineer Jun 27 07:17:21 XorA: same. software engineer. Jun 27 07:17:27 sybesis: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile Jun 27 07:17:36 sybesis: and try make qemu Jun 27 07:17:42 stefan_schmidt: my degree is in electrical engineering, just turns out Im bollocks at it :-) Jun 27 07:17:42 XorA: "programmers" generally just impelment the design they are given and told to implement Jun 27 07:17:50 they dont design anything Jun 27 07:17:56 just fill in the code blanks Jun 27 07:18:28 software engineers tend to do the design too but also get hands dirty Jun 27 07:18:40 raster: that I would agree with Jun 27 07:18:41 "architects" mostly tend to just design and not get hands dirty Jun 27 07:18:50 raster: I hate that Jun 27 07:18:52 downloading every svgs :D Jun 27 07:18:53 XorA: ah, the part of my studies I kicked. I had a mixture of cs and ee before. Now cs only and doing low level software. ;) Jun 27 07:19:02 they may even never have learnt how to program and have no skills there Jun 27 07:19:07 but that depends Jun 27 07:19:09 and developers write some html and think they are engineers Jun 27 07:19:20 they also may be ex-programmers or enigneers tired of the dirty-work Jun 27 07:19:31 XorA: hahahahaha Jun 27 07:19:34 XorA: woah, woah, woah...do not insult HTML programmers ;) Jun 27 07:19:36 but i probably installed it if i look at the wiki...i probably got in zombie mode Jun 27 07:19:45 and just copy pasted every line Jun 27 07:19:51 heh, you guys are working to long for an asia company. It'S not all about titles. Jun 27 07:19:52 stefan_schmidt: I did work for 2 years at a mixed job, where I had to debug and SMT repair proto boards before we did the final layout Jun 27 07:20:09 stefan_schmidt: but never found one of those since, no-one likes you doing both Jun 27 07:20:21 XorA: That was before your GSM BT job, so before your audio driver job? Jun 27 07:20:32 XorA: old guy, he? ;) Jun 27 07:20:34 stefan_schmidt: if the people you work for dont respect u without the title - it begins to be necessary Jun 27 07:20:36 elfo: did you succeed? Jun 27 07:20:50 downloading... Jun 27 07:20:53 :) Jun 27 07:20:56 stefan_schmidt: heh, I switch around a lot Jun 27 07:21:00 raster: That's a problem, yes. Jun 27 07:21:06 trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds/ringtone_supertux.rg Jun 27 07:21:11 :D Jun 27 07:21:11 stefan_schmidt: Im only 2^5 Jun 27 07:21:18 heh Jun 27 07:21:49 sybesis: it might take a while...I am off to bed...pm me with a message if you succeed Jun 27 07:21:56 * stefan_schmidt gets 0x1B in for days. Still some time for more jobs. Jun 27 07:22:08 goodwill: ok Jun 27 07:22:25 question: has anyone tried om-conf --prefix=some_dir . ? Jun 27 07:22:26 me jobs so far, software for lasers shooting down missiles, 2 years as HW/SW consultant, 1 year writing gfx drivers, 6 months on BT, 5 years on SIMs, 1 year at wolfson, and here Jun 27 07:22:31 elfo: I am going to be compiling for Xnest x86 now...let me know if it worked for you Jun 27 07:23:21 XorA: oh, only one year at wolfson? OM got you away pretty fast. Jun 27 07:23:31 and yes for whoever asked for changing all the orange these are SVG file...hopefully the color aren't there...but as these are svg file someone could make a parser that parse every xml file and change the color Jun 27 07:23:32 XorA: Do you have such a laser around? ;) Jun 27 07:23:52 stefan_schmidt: unfortuneately that project was for a defence contractor and on the road to total disaster Jun 27 07:24:04 stefan_schmidt: they never made the lasers :-( Jun 27 07:24:09 sybesis: that was me...I was hoping they were are svg..should not be hard to change Jun 27 07:24:12 XorA: pitty Jun 27 07:24:32 QEMU is known to have problems when compiled with gcc 4.x Jun 27 07:24:33 It is recommended that you use gcc 3.x to build QEMU Jun 27 07:24:33 To use this compiler anyway, configure with --disable-gcc-check Jun 27 07:24:33 make: *** [setup-qemu] Ошибка 1 Jun 27 07:24:41 although there is an Isreal plane with it installed these days, I saw it on the news a couple of years ago :-) Jun 27 07:25:08 missiles were fired and strangely all missed the plane Jun 27 07:25:09 there is no configure script so i don't see how i can configure it Jun 27 07:26:07 XorA: So they have fixed all the bug you left in the software. ;) Jun 27 07:26:17 goodwill: unless you have any idea how to disable gcc check, it wont be possible Jun 27 07:26:19 ok, enough kidding. Need to get some work done. later guys Jun 27 07:26:26 cya stefan_schmidt Jun 27 07:26:33 sybesis: you can specify --cc Jun 27 07:28:25 hmmm Jun 27 07:28:29 sybesis: --cc= I think Jun 27 07:28:34 ok Jun 27 07:28:42 goodwill it took automatically the gcc-3.3 here :) - but i forget to say -j4 :> Jun 27 07:29:16 doesnt work Jun 27 07:30:35 sybesis: maybe the make file ignores...its would be easy to patch or what not... Jun 27 07:30:55 sybesis: but I doubt qemu will compile with 4.3...the official qemu source does nto as far as I know Jun 27 07:31:08 neldoreth: yeah it autodetects Jun 27 07:31:12 i'm working on it..just look at what exactly does the MakeFile Jun 27 07:33:21 sybesis: try Jun 27 07:33:28 CC=gcc-3.3.6; export CC Jun 27 07:33:30 found it wait a sec Jun 27 07:33:32 somethign like that Jun 27 07:33:40 or just specify Jun 27 07:33:45 CC=gcc-3.3.6 make Jun 27 07:33:49 goodwill worked fine and is booting right now :) thank you Jun 27 07:33:50 on command line Jun 27 07:34:03 neldoreth: cool...did you get the official images? Jun 27 07:35:11 which resellers???? Jun 27 07:35:33 spyre: links from openmoko.com Jun 27 07:35:39 none in US Jun 27 07:35:39 spydon Jun 27 07:35:45 nice, thx SpeedEvil Jun 27 07:35:51 SpeedEvil, eu? Jun 27 07:35:58 yes Jun 27 07:36:00 spydon: pretty much Jun 27 07:36:06 truebox in the UK have Jun 27 07:36:06 3 I think, uk,fr,de Jun 27 07:36:16 nice Jun 27 07:36:26 de, is that denmark? Jun 27 07:36:32 as mine arrived yesterday :) Jun 27 07:36:35 Deutchland Jun 27 07:36:39 okay Jun 27 07:36:59 Tig|: shiny eh? Jun 27 07:37:05 yep :) Jun 27 07:37:52 it building Jun 27 07:38:32 sybesis: using 4.3? Jun 27 07:38:45 yup i had to add a line to the make file Jun 27 07:38:54 doesn't have any error for now Jun 27 07:39:18 sybesis: if it succeeds that will be interesting Jun 27 07:39:40 it doesn't but it seems to fail on some sort of lisp code Jun 27 07:39:43 :| Jun 27 07:39:53 (set (mem/s/j:DI (plus:SI (plus:SI (mult:SI (reg/f:SI 59) Jun 27 07:39:53 (const_int 8 [0x8])) Jun 27 07:39:53 (reg/f:SI 58 [ env.2404 ])) Jun 27 07:39:53 (const_int 4 [0x4])) [0 .iwmmxt.regs S8 A32]) Jun 27 07:39:53 (reg:DI 60 [ .iwmmxt.val ])) 63 {*movdi_2} (expr_list:REG_DEAD (reg:DI 60 [ .iwmmxt.val ]) Jun 27 07:39:56 (expr_list:REG_DEAD (reg/f:SI 59) Jun 27 07:39:58 (expr_list:REG_DEAD (reg/f:SI 58 [ env.2404 ]) Jun 27 07:40:00 (nil))))) Jun 27 07:40:11 scheme or lisp Jun 27 07:40:24 or some other language i do not know Jun 27 07:41:55 sybesis: anyhow as far as I know qemu does nto build with gcc about 3.3 or 3.4 Jun 27 07:42:09 confirmed :D Jun 27 07:42:09 nite nite Jun 27 07:42:13 good nigth Jun 27 07:51:04 mickeyl: so, did the russia - spain result please you? Jun 27 07:52:04 well Jun 27 07:52:08 i was a bit disappointed Jun 27 07:52:29 my bets were on the russians Jun 27 07:52:34 but they were too tired Jun 27 07:53:03 they certainly have played some good football in earlier games Jun 27 07:53:15 indeed. the one vs. the netherlands was classy Jun 27 07:53:31 but perhaps it's good Jun 27 07:53:39 now spain is the favorite Jun 27 07:53:54 if it was us against russion we had more psychological pressure Jun 27 07:54:09 argh, my spelling sucks this morning Jun 27 07:54:30 perhaps you are still shocked :) Jun 27 07:54:38 no wonder, it is not even 10 an you are awake :) Jun 27 07:59:51 indeed Jun 27 08:00:01 woke up together with Sabine tody (07:00) Jun 27 08:00:11 gave her a ride to the office and we had breakfast there Jun 27 08:00:13 wayy too early dude! Jun 27 08:00:16 *nod* Jun 27 08:00:19 :) Jun 27 08:00:55 gave her a ride to the office and we had breakfast there Jun 27 08:00:57 comments could be made. Jun 27 08:01:07 ah well Jun 27 08:01:07 innuendo could be let loose... but i won't :) Jun 27 08:01:10 that may be ambigous Jun 27 08:01:22 it's not what you think Jun 27 08:01:29 i can do nothing @ 07:00 ;) Jun 27 08:01:39 heh Jun 27 08:01:57 you know, i've just realised something... Jun 27 08:02:07 *cough* Jun 27 08:02:13 * XorA avoids the coffee viagra comparisons :-) Jun 27 08:02:15 after all this waiting for the freerunner, i've realised that now it is being released *i don't actually have the money available* Jun 27 08:02:15 whats wrong with a bit of innuendo! Jun 27 08:02:20 bring it on, i say! Jun 27 08:02:25 Moniker42: bummer :/ Jun 27 08:02:27 XorA: :) Jun 27 08:02:30 raster, that's what she said. Jun 27 08:02:42 :) Jun 27 08:02:52 although she didn't say "innuendo" Jun 27 08:02:59 that part of the sentence cannot be repeated... Jun 27 08:04:10 hahahah Jun 27 08:28:14 hi @ll Jun 27 08:34:53 raster: are you interested in hearing about commercial products which are using edje? Jun 27 08:35:04 nezza-_-: sure! Jun 27 08:35:08 i know of a few Jun 27 08:35:20 but i likely havent kept track of most Jun 27 08:35:38 raster: okay.. cause im actually developing on one. it will run on a embedded plattrform and go into the mainstream in about 2-3 month Jun 27 08:35:55 raster: if the status is open enough to tell you details, i will write you :) Jun 27 08:36:17 nezza-_-: cool! what is it? Jun 27 08:37:15 raster: it's the future of building traffic management ;) i will write to you if i can be sure that the project status is in the phase where we can talk open about all the details ;) Jun 27 08:37:40 a building traffic? Jun 27 08:53:13 does some1 know if Spacemarine (Karlsruhe group sales) is here from time to time? Jun 27 09:20:09 g'morning Jun 27 09:45:23 halooo Jun 27 09:45:39 alooo oooo OOooOOoo Jun 27 09:46:02 oooollaaaah Jun 27 09:46:40 i need free BNC now ! |= Jun 27 09:47:19 do you know where can i find it????? and just don't tell me to google it :S Jun 27 09:47:23 helloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Jun 27 09:47:37 i need free beer Jun 27 09:48:05 Good. Jun 27 09:48:10 BNC = british naval connector? Jun 27 09:48:27 lol Jun 27 09:49:06 it's a bouncer... x| Jun 27 09:49:47 i can't believe that no one on this geek server can't help me find one! it's totally lame... Jun 27 09:51:08 BNC reminds me of annoying ethernet cabling days Jun 27 09:51:31 zedstar, lol Jun 27 09:51:35 hmm... crimping tools Jun 27 09:51:53 :S Jun 27 09:52:23 undoing a segment and taking the whole LAN down Jun 27 09:53:51 zedstar, I still have about 10 bnc network cards and a few cables. haven't got the heart to throw them out. Jun 27 09:54:00 surely *someone* will need them one day? no? Jun 27 09:54:19 johnl lol yeh a museum Jun 27 09:54:27 new bug: "the Freerunner lacks a bnc connector" Jun 27 09:54:45 * mjr has two token ring cards... Jun 27 09:55:48 never seen a token ring Jun 27 09:56:06 one token ring to rule them all ... Jun 27 09:57:43 the amount of times ive seen exam questions on token ring network though!!!! Jun 27 09:59:21 ~curse token ring Jun 27 09:59:22 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, token ring ! Jun 27 09:59:31 lol Jun 27 09:59:36 cutting Jun 27 10:00:27 so anyone know what BNC she was on about? lol Jun 27 10:01:30 Basic Network Connection Jun 27 10:01:43 I think --> http://www.gotbnc.com/ Jun 27 10:02:05 ah yeah Jun 27 10:02:13 * XorA forgets he is actually using a BNC :_) Jun 27 10:02:18 :-) Jun 27 10:02:33 my next guess was too rude to put in channel Jun 27 10:02:33 ah! Jun 27 10:02:51 how restrained of you :-) Jun 27 10:07:54 mmm. thick ethernet Jun 27 10:11:04 thick ethernet in the datacenter is almost as disgusting as: http://de.fishki.net/picsw/062008/27/prislannoe/tn.jpg Jun 27 10:12:49 mmmmm, pork Jun 27 10:14:19 nibbler_, wtf?? Jun 27 10:17:31 wondered what happened to miss piggy Jun 27 10:20:50 I want to order a freerunner in the Netherlands. I found a webshop in Germany, pulster.de. can I trust that site? Jun 27 10:23:00 jzoef: OM trusts them Jun 27 10:31:01 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re79f152e2de8 10/framework/console: rename framework to console Jun 27 10:31:02 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rdceb0c6b7481 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.py): document bus name changes in ChangeLog and adjust oeventd to match it Jun 27 10:31:02 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2977a1be1b91 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/modems/abstract/ (call.py mediator.py pdp.py): ophoned: refactor abstract call handling and pdp handling into own modem-specific module Jun 27 10:31:04 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9bf97460d6cb 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (4 files in 3 dirs): ophoned: add preliminary handling of org.freesmartphone.PDP.{ActivateContext|DeactivateContext} Jun 27 10:31:07 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf772508de006 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): rename console to cli-framework and adjust setup.py Jun 27 10:37:30 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc4a11bcb1ae1 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up illume to rev120 - had theme problem. 100% cpu usage with infinite timer. Jun 27 10:38:30 yeeha, 5.7. will be a happy day :] Jun 27 10:38:52 5.7? Jun 27 10:39:18 7/5/2008 or 5.7.2008, depends on where you are from :) Jun 27 10:39:18 5th of July? Jun 27 10:39:22 yep Jun 27 10:39:26 indeed =) Jun 27 10:40:01 i'm gonna order mine later on if the group doesn't cut it in 2 days Jun 27 10:41:01 ah that when the USA catch up eh? ;) Jun 27 10:48:39 I would like to code a C++ helloword for the freerunner, what in the wiki is the best page to learn that ? I know "/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr" but it feels like a howto for the GTA01 isn't it ? Jun 27 10:51:38 a gui based hello world or command line? Jun 27 10:52:19 I whould like to do the both, a command is simpler isn't it ? Jun 27 10:53:03 well yeh Jun 27 10:53:24 there isn't very much magic involved, it _will_ run basically the same apps as a small memory desktop system... Jun 27 10:53:59 if you're doing c++, you might of course use the qtopia libs, I dunno about that myself Jun 27 10:54:26 the basic principle is same on any cross compilation......just use the cross gcc to compile and and scp the binary over and run it Jun 27 10:54:47 so first u need to setup your cross tools Jun 27 10:55:27 which u can do with mokomakefile Jun 27 10:56:56 hum ok thank you, so is "/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr" a good start ? Jun 27 10:57:27 personally i dont use those as i just write on desktop and then cross compile when im ready Jun 27 10:57:40 but i dont do gui stuff Jun 27 10:57:55 * mjr likes python himself, so no compiling ;P Jun 27 10:58:15 I didn't understand why you don't need Xoo ? Jun 27 10:58:43 *sorry, I'm a classical desktop/web developer from now so a little lost in cross compilation Jun 27 10:58:48 im not doing anythng that has a gui right now so i can just run same code on desktop and my neo Jun 27 10:59:47 Ok. Jun 27 11:00:22 there is a more high level approach to building things using bitbake and openembedded but probably i would start with hello world in a simple setup building by hand Jun 27 11:00:31 freesmartphone.org: 03heikki.paajanen 07gsmd2 * rcfdeb8d37ab0 10/ (20 files in 3 dirs): Jun 27 11:00:31 freesmartphone.org: Random fixes and cleanups Jun 27 11:00:31 freesmartphone.org: Implemented per vendor unit test configurations (and support for ticalypsoneo1973) Jun 27 11:00:31 freesmartphone.org: Implemented experimental call monitoring for modems that don't send all changes in call status Jun 27 11:01:42 So the principe is : To do a console hello word I juste need gcc but to be able to compile it for a openmoko, i need mokomakefile ? Jun 27 11:02:12 there is also a tarballed toolchain but ive not tried that Jun 27 11:02:24 but mokomakefile will setup some tools for u Jun 27 11:02:28 And is it possible to write c++ code for openmoko with Qtopia and try it on desktop ? Jun 27 11:02:47 i dunno bout c++ and qtopia never tried Jun 27 11:03:13 Ok. Thanks for your help, i'll look at mokomakefile Jun 27 11:03:28 would seem to be likely, since there's qvfb and now a semi-operational X11 port of qtopia for OM's purposes; you'd probably best ask ljp about the most straightforward way to do that Jun 27 11:04:19 he's the local qtopia evangelist; I'm sure if you ignore all the hype and skip to the technical bits he has some useful info Jun 27 11:04:20 I build one sample package in openmoko , it's created success fully then i replaced my source code with the example's source code but when I "make rebuild-package-" it created the package for the previous one Jun 27 11:06:15 mjr: Yes I'm a littlebit confused on this point. I don't really know if the freerunner i've bougth will come with the openmoko GUI i know or a new Qtopia interface ? Jun 27 11:06:15 any idea, how rebuild package works? Jun 27 11:06:40 opendeep: Try make clean Jun 27 11:07:13 erwin: gtk Jun 27 11:07:56 erwin, I don't know what it'll come with either, but the now-hip ASU seems to basically be X11, with qtopia phone apps (possibly other, but phone apps being the core), plus other gtk and efl apps. Jun 27 11:09:56 so why stefan_schmidt says it will be gtk ? Jun 27 11:10:44 erwin: Because he has a freerunner and worked for OM. Jun 27 11:10:46 erwin, mine came with the gtk thing. 2007.2 or whatever. Jun 27 11:10:53 erwin: ASU is meant as *update* Jun 27 11:10:59 AFAIK they are *not* shipping with ASU, they are coming with the stable 2007.2 Jun 27 11:11:12 anyway, have to go. bye Jun 27 11:12:12 thanks okay Jun 27 11:15:27 erwin what i try and do now is just start with a basic autoconf based program and work from that.....the nice thing about that is u can automate building an ipk from it later with openembedded Jun 27 11:16:06 erwin and u can find hello world c++ autoconf based examples out there Jun 27 11:16:58 ok, you mean on the wiki ? Jun 27 11:18:15 well for a basic command line hello world autoconf project just search google Jun 27 11:19:08 openembedded can take that and automagically package it when u ready Jun 27 11:19:15 it is pretty kewl really Jun 27 11:29:31 Hey there. Jun 27 11:30:44 If by any chance there's a french person here who has some information on group sales in Paris, I would be glad to know :-) Jun 27 11:32:08 Can anyone here confirm that the Freerunner is ready for every-day use? Jun 27 11:32:34 reinhold, um. depends on what you'll want to do every day. Jun 27 11:33:00 reinhold, mine can make and receive calls/smses ok. Jun 27 11:33:06 but wireless isn't working for me. Jun 27 11:33:22 johnl: Regular use as a GSM phone: doing calls and be called ;-) Jun 27 11:33:34 MarcOChapeau: Y aurait moyen de te parler en privé deux secondes ? (sorry for the english people, just trying to be understood by some other french :-) ) Jun 27 11:33:52 johnl: Ah, nice. How's the quality of the calls? Jun 27 11:33:55 * cga just bought his Free Runner + pouch + hearplugs from pulster! Jun 27 11:34:07 cga: Now I'm jealous :-) Jun 27 11:34:08 johnl: I suppose the wireless issue is only a software problem, not hardware? Jun 27 11:34:09 * johnl didn't get his pouch or earplugs :( Jun 27 11:34:32 reinhold: it looks like software Jun 27 11:34:50 reinhold, yeah. i can see it in terminal. just gui seems mssing. Jun 27 11:35:44 Nice, so I can order it and use it as my mobile phone, too, not only as a geek toy for programming ;-) Jun 27 11:36:02 Well, nobody seems to know the whereabouts of the Paris, France, group sale :-/ Jun 27 11:36:05 johnl: how long does the batterie hold with your freerunner? Jun 27 11:37:47 hmm anyone know what the dhcp client is called in OM? Jun 27 11:37:47 borg_, with diaily image of the 25th June, i went to sleep with a full charge and it looked to be less than 10% 6 hours later :/ Jun 27 11:37:53 that was with suspend enabled Jun 27 11:38:03 but again, that is likely software. Jun 27 11:38:32 the battery gauge is not very accurate imho it seems to yoyo a bit Jun 27 11:38:52 johnl: ah ok, then i will wait and use my neo1973 until there is a reasonable battery time :) Jun 27 11:39:25 borg_, i'm sure it's just software. i see neod using cpu all the time for no good reason Jun 27 11:39:29 and pulseaudio Jun 27 11:39:44 this is with a random daily build remember Jun 27 11:42:06 did pulster start to sell? Jun 27 11:42:48 yes Jun 27 11:42:49 they are willing to take orders and are expecting the shipment next Thursday Jun 27 11:44:07 Argh. And no news about the group sales for us. I'll never get one :-/ Jun 27 11:46:47 I'm biggest fear for Freerunner minimal everyday phone usage is battery time and reliable resume... Jun 27 11:47:53 i'd wish'd know some resource that can convince me that it's just software and get's fixed... Jun 27 11:52:22 my logic says it's software Jun 27 11:52:35 but i can't gurantee, of course Jun 27 11:54:16 do we have any estimates about when the official shop will open? And shipping costs from there? Jun 27 11:54:18 i think there have been lab tests where it worked well, at least without gsm. Jun 27 11:54:47 but i don't know about any lab tests where it worked with gsm active and call waking up.... Jun 27 11:55:31 zlfita: there has been a mail to the annouce list for the time to open. some of the resellers already have opened or posted timelines. Jun 27 11:55:53 shipping is afaik UPS from fremont, US for the openmoko.com webshop.... Jun 27 11:56:14 can I chose the EU or US FreeRunner version from the shop ? Jun 27 11:56:24 choose* Jun 27 11:56:31 CVirus: that is how I read it Jun 27 11:57:10 if you are in the EU though would it not be easier to get one from a reseller? Jun 27 11:57:27 If a reseller still has it... Jun 27 11:57:33 plus, from a reseller, you get extra gadgets (pouch, headset) Jun 27 11:57:38 I think pulster is the cheapest reseller http://www.pulster.de/ Jun 27 11:57:53 yep, they're 30 euros cheaper than us :) Jun 27 11:58:05 lukhas: well you should but mine did not arrive :( Jun 27 11:58:26 lukhas, you don't get extras for free from pulster Jun 27 11:58:29 did not arrive? what do you mean ? Jun 27 11:58:33 cga: oh, really ? Jun 27 11:58:33 but they e-mailed me first to warn me and ask if I still wanted to go ahead :) Jun 27 11:58:52 than that's an advantage for us :) Jun 27 11:58:59 Tig|, yours didn't arrive?? where from? Jun 27 11:59:09 the pouch and headphones were not in the package from OM Jun 27 11:59:15 no, not from OM Jun 27 11:59:23 they're only in bulk order Jun 27 11:59:27 who ships the pouch and the earphone ? Jun 27 11:59:31 10 pack group or reseller Jun 27 11:59:46 I mean who offers them with the phone Jun 27 11:59:55 we do, at Bearstech Jun 27 12:00:00 link ? Jun 27 12:00:02 but I'm surprised pulster does not Jun 27 12:00:03 lukhas: you did Jun 27 12:00:16 CVirus: shop down at the moment, we're out of stock :) Jun 27 12:00:22 lukhas, it might be that they don't offer them to single orders Jun 27 12:00:25 lukhas: You don't since this morning as I unfortunately saw it 20 minutes ago Jun 27 12:00:28 lukhas: and I hate you for that Jun 27 12:00:42 did you place an order ? Jun 27 12:00:47 no Jun 27 12:00:48 me? yes Jun 27 12:00:51 lukhas: But I'll forgive you as soon as you'll have another bulk :-p Jun 27 12:00:52 Ainulindale: if you did, it will be honoured, of course Jun 27 12:00:58 lukhas: when are you getting another batch of FreeRunners ? Jun 27 12:01:04 lukhas: I was planning to do it, but was trying to have some information about group sales Jun 27 12:01:05 CVirus: don't know Jun 27 12:01:10 the sooner the better Jun 27 12:01:14 meh, hang on things are getting muddled :) I bought my phone from truebox (UK reseller) and they said they would include what ever OM sent them but in their bulk order (might have been an early one) the pouches and headphones were missing, they then mailed me to make sure I still wanted to go ahead and I did :) Jun 27 12:01:36 Tig|: I see Jun 27 12:01:37 hmm Jun 27 12:01:38 if they turn up later they said they will forward them on :) Jun 27 12:01:39 lukhas: you mind telling me how phones have you sold so far ? Jun 27 12:01:44 lukhas: Because it seemed to me that it was a little bit expensive compared to the euro/dollar parity Jun 27 12:01:47 CVirus: almost 100 Jun 27 12:01:57 I see Jun 27 12:01:58 Ainulindale: French VAT, adds 50 euros Jun 27 12:02:10 brb .. smoke Jun 27 12:02:12 there goes your parity :) Jun 27 12:02:18 lukhas: Yep that's what I thought and that's why I was trying to get some information about group sales :-) Jun 27 12:02:20 i just ordered from pulster, i hope they won't be sold out as well Jun 27 12:02:33 plus, we don't get a huge rebate since we only ordered a 100 phones Jun 27 12:02:48 lukhas: But I'm ready to come to your office location just to pick one as soon as it's available Jun 27 12:02:56 lukhas: And to offer you a pint of guinness of course Jun 27 12:03:10 I don't like beer :) Jun 27 12:03:24 Gah. I hate you more by the minute :-) Jun 27 12:03:27 hehe Jun 27 12:03:44 we should reopen the store this afternoon Jun 27 12:03:54 lukhas, link? Jun 27 12:03:56 lukhas: Do you take tickets restaurants ? Jun 27 12:03:59 bearstech.com/shop Jun 27 12:04:03 Ainulindale: nope Jun 27 12:04:07 Aw man. Jun 27 12:04:10 Too bad. Jun 27 12:04:24 check, wire transfer, paypal Jun 27 12:04:38 dealing whith customers is such a pain :) Jun 27 12:04:45 Yep, I went to your website 20 times a day fingering the "order" button.. Jun 27 12:04:59 anyone know the vat for portugal? Jun 27 12:04:59 I'm pretty familiar with it now :-p Jun 27 12:05:15 d3vice: you pay the VAT from the seller, anyway :) Jun 27 12:05:19 wow I never thought I would see the day people are actually buying freerunner Jun 27 12:05:46 50 €? Jun 27 12:05:47 lukhas: the next order will be at the same price/offer ? Jun 27 12:06:09 Ainulindale: yes Jun 27 12:06:26 we may or may not get the sd card/stylus offer Jun 27 12:06:29 depending on their stock Jun 27 12:06:35 Sic'. Jun 27 12:06:52 woohoo, from our contact at openmoko just now : "I will say shipping date is before next Wednesday (2nd July)" Jun 27 12:06:54 I'm willing to do the deer eyes thingie if necessary, don't tempt me. Jun 27 12:07:25 just when everybody will be away from the office, great Jun 27 12:07:35 Arf :-) Jun 27 12:07:59 (Means that with a good timing and a big truck... :-p) Jun 27 12:07:59 we share the office with our sister company, they will keep an eye on it Jun 27 12:09:16 Tiens vous avez pas une offre sécurité Jun 27 12:09:38 nope, we're web hosters Jun 27 12:09:39 Hmmpf, sorry, switching to french without paying attention Jun 27 12:09:43 security is hard to sell Jun 27 12:09:49 unless you scare your customers Jun 27 12:09:53 tiens du français :) Jun 27 12:09:58 You tell me... I'm in that kind of line Jun 27 12:10:10 (but for a big SSII so it's not my part to sell) Jun 27 12:10:13 jfrousval: coin \_o< Jun 27 12:10:37 :) Jun 27 12:12:19 I'm so angry I didn't click on that buttony esterday Jun 27 12:12:26 s/y / y/ Jun 27 12:12:26 Ainulindale meant: I'm so angr yI didn't click on that buttony esterday Jun 27 12:12:39 apt: Ok I get it, I fumbled my sed. Jun 27 12:12:40 You get it, I fumbled my sed.? Jun 27 12:12:47 I love stupid scripts :-) Jun 27 12:13:28 :) Jun 27 12:13:43 we still have few units in stock, anyway Jun 27 12:14:05 we plan to sell them directly to customers, on www.lacantine.org Jun 27 12:14:06 Hmmmmpf. How can I corrupt you ? :-p Jun 27 12:14:16 which Where Hi-Tech Stuff Happens, these days Jun 27 12:14:22 which si Jun 27 12:14:28 which is, damnit Jun 27 12:14:41 :-) Jun 27 12:14:43 nothing sure for the moment Jun 27 12:15:09 lukhas: I've got my checkbook and the keys of my car right next to me :-): Jun 27 12:15:10 especially since no one around us seems to have a credit card reader to accept payments Jun 27 12:15:47 what car is it? Jun 27 12:15:52 haha :-p Jun 27 12:15:57 I don't take diesels Jun 27 12:15:58 a crappy '94 twingo Jun 27 12:15:59 (vintage) Jun 27 12:16:00 or French cars Jun 27 12:16:02 too bad Jun 27 12:16:14 With tons of Zappa's CDs in it Jun 27 12:18:13 lukhas: how much do you sell the FreeRunner for ? Jun 27 12:18:28 CVirus: 320 EUR + shipping Jun 27 12:18:50 lukhas: what accessories ? Jun 27 12:18:50 26 EUR shipping outside France :/ Jun 27 12:19:04 26 EUR worldwide ? Jun 27 12:19:06 hmm, pouch, headset Jun 27 12:19:33 that's called "International", I expect it to be around the world, yes Jun 27 12:20:43 that's 545 dollars Jun 27 12:20:44 hmm Jun 27 12:20:51 (+ warranty) Jun 27 12:20:58 how much for that ? Jun 27 12:21:11 that's included, that's what I meant :) Jun 27 12:21:23 I see Jun 27 12:21:26 even though I wonder how painful it is to guarantee it wordwide Jun 27 12:21:39 what type of guarantee ? Jun 27 12:22:01 1 year on defects Jun 27 12:22:10 can't I wipe the guarantee off ? Jun 27 12:22:13 I don't need it .. I live in Egypt Jun 27 12:22:19 basically the French / European typical warranty Jun 27 12:22:29 yes you can wipe it, but we won't lower the price :) Jun 27 12:22:36 hehe Jun 27 12:22:48 it's not like we're making millions of profit on it to begin with Jun 27 12:23:12 neither Openmoko Inc is doing millions of profit Jun 27 12:23:15 we plan to publish our sales figures later Jun 27 12:23:21 yeah Jun 27 12:23:38 but my company has to pay both me and openmoko to work on reselling it Jun 27 12:23:52 (yes, I'm paid !) Jun 27 12:23:57 (to hang on IRC all day) Jun 27 12:24:09 lol Jun 27 12:24:15 lukhas me too.. but *ssssh* Jun 27 12:24:28 oh, and shipping 100 phones from taiwan to france costs 2500 dollars, by the way Jun 27 12:24:32 that's something Jun 27 12:24:51 afk, meeting to reopen the web shop Jun 27 12:25:17 cool Jun 27 12:32:00 so you'll buying from france Jun 27 12:32:20 i'll go to turkey on 4th and i hope i can get one befire that Jun 27 12:41:17 I'll perhaps go to the boulevard de sébastopol this afternoon if I manage to get on lukhas' nerves enough :-p Jun 27 12:41:27 (In order to have a freerunner :-p) Jun 27 12:56:45 issue tracker is down. can't file a bug about it because issue tracker is down: http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/ Jun 27 12:59:30 lukhas, stock? for france? Jun 27 12:59:37 try again Jun 27 12:59:46 KaZeR: hm ? Jun 27 13:01:22 lukhas, you have freeunners in sotkc i've read? Jun 27 13:01:26 damn it i can't type Jun 27 13:01:43 we have not yet recieved them from openmoko Jun 27 13:01:59 but we have sold almost all of them before even getting them Jun 27 13:02:17 ah ok. how much left from incoming bundle? Jun 27 13:02:34 not enough to sell them :) Jun 27 13:02:54 not enough to sell? isn't that you job to sell them? :) Jun 27 13:02:56 320e i've read? how much is shipping for france? any accessories like housing case? Jun 27 13:02:57 we plan to reopen the store, and mention that these phones are from the second batch, expected around mid-july Jun 27 13:03:15 waint until I reopen the store, you'll get your answers Jun 27 13:03:36 * Ainulindale shakes Jun 27 13:03:47 :) Jun 27 13:03:49 I'm bored, I want my toy ! :-p Jun 27 13:03:56 Ainulindale, +1 Jun 27 13:04:06 lukhas, do you sell housing case? Jun 27 13:04:14 you mean the pouch ? Jun 27 13:04:22 cause currently i was thinking of buying at bearstech Jun 27 13:04:31 it's included in the shipping, so it's included in your order Jun 27 13:04:59 lukhas: By the way, did you get one yourself ? Jun 27 13:05:11 yes of course, all our employees will have one Jun 27 13:05:24 that's why I closed the shop before selling *all* the units Jun 27 13:05:28 "Will" then, not "have" :-) Jun 27 13:05:45 yeah, we haven't recieved them, yet, as I said Jun 27 13:05:48 Yep yep Jun 27 13:05:57 lukhas, i'm talking of this: http://www.pulster.de/engl/index.html?d__ompouch__OpenMoko_Freerunner_Pouch786.htm Jun 27 13:06:04 it's included in the default pacakge? Jun 27 13:06:08 I thought that as a reseller you would have received some prerelease Jun 27 13:06:29 KaZeR: yes, that's included in the bulk orders Jun 27 13:06:47 ahbritto, nice Jun 27 13:06:53 damn. Jun 27 13:06:56 ahbritto, nice Jun 27 13:06:59 no tab here Jun 27 13:06:59 uh Jun 27 13:07:05 ahbritto, nice Jun 27 13:07:12 weird. Jun 27 13:07:14 Get a real client :-p Jun 27 13:07:14 poor ahbritto Jun 27 13:07:22 hehe, my apologies :) Jun 27 13:07:44 You have a real distro, I give you that. Time to move to a good IRC client. Jun 27 13:07:47 anyway, afk, building the new shop Jun 27 13:08:05 Ainulindale, ;) Jun 27 13:09:15 the price for my soul is in the mail Jun 27 13:09:31 (a 3g usb stick for 2 years of contract) Jun 27 13:09:52 will keep me happy on laptops with the neo being limited to gsm Jun 27 13:10:11 :-) Jun 27 13:40:04 hi there Jun 27 13:40:26 I'm trying to run openMoko in Qemu, using MokoMakefile Jun 27 13:40:57 It starts correctly but then I cannot interact with the UI Jun 27 13:41:43 i also built a qemu image has show in openmoko's wiki, booted and got no ui response Jun 27 13:41:51 (actually, the icons blink when I click on them) Jun 27 13:41:58 this was yesterday, 2 weeks ago worked fine Jun 27 13:42:14 aha Jun 27 13:42:49 Hey Johnl :) Jun 27 13:44:10 interesting stuff, although i'm building a qemu image, it still shows bablocks when flashing Jun 27 13:44:42 yep Jun 27 13:44:43 it does that Jun 27 13:44:53 Among other weirdness :) Jun 27 13:44:57 eh :) Jun 27 13:46:19 bah Jun 27 13:46:33 motorcycle boots, nice touch Jun 27 13:47:18 hah! Jun 27 13:47:28 hoi, johnl :] Jun 27 13:48:51 morning dave Jun 27 13:55:55 moet gaan.. Jun 27 14:11:47 lukhas: sorry for the load :-p Jun 27 14:12:32 np Jun 27 14:12:40 still working on the shop Jun 27 14:12:44 lukhas: I meant I just was refreshing too often :-) Jun 27 14:12:46 second batch of orders confirmed Jun 27 14:12:58 you'll get a ping when the shop is up Jun 27 14:13:07 the openmoko shop? Jun 27 14:13:15 nah, the bearstech shop Jun 27 14:13:15 or a distributor shop? Jun 27 14:13:18 oh Jun 27 14:13:21 french reseller Jun 27 14:13:26 effectively selling for all EU Jun 27 14:13:27 man...goin and gettin my hopes up Jun 27 14:13:35 we even got a sale for Cyprus! Jun 27 14:16:31 By the way, the resources about Freerunner/OpenMoko are badly organized, it's mostly impossible to find something :-/ Jun 27 14:16:36 me? yes Jun 27 14:17:17 ohps sorry.. just trying the remote control Jun 27 14:19:32 networkmanager in ubuntu hoary switches away from a perfectly good wlan connection in preference to a neo appearing on the usb bus, without being configured or me having a dhcp server there... Jun 27 14:19:44 which kinda sucks for it Jun 27 14:19:52 well, of it, for me Jun 27 14:19:57 mjr: aye it is annoying that :( Jun 27 14:20:21 I just click back on the wifi and it is usually back without dropping anything Jun 27 14:25:16 mjr: if you configure usb0 in your interfaces file, network manager ignores it from then on Jun 27 14:25:33 and if you set it as auto, it is brought up when you plug in the your openmoko too Jun 27 14:25:56 configure it to bring up some masquerading rules at the same time with a post-up script and you're laughing Jun 27 14:26:12 unfortunately it does not appear to go down when you disconnect Jun 27 14:26:15 okay Jun 27 14:26:22 so then doesn't come up properly when you plug back in :( Jun 27 14:28:50 ahoi Jun 27 15:03:09 Since the first freerunners are out there, anybody here managed to test a 8GB of even a 16GB microSD card? Jun 27 15:03:22 do they make 16? Jun 27 15:03:27 I don't think 16 GB ones are on the market Jun 27 15:03:32 Looks like it... Jun 27 15:03:43 'course, you could draw out wires to a standard form factor sd ;P Jun 27 15:04:15 hmm I think I have found a very odd bug Jun 27 15:04:23 Yeah, like we used to do with old phone cards... Jun 27 15:04:43 in the SMS application you can't actually type the number 0 :) Jun 27 15:05:04 Oops :) Jun 27 15:05:14 at some point Sandisk appears to have promised 16 GB ones by June, but we know how schedules go (*cough cough*): http://www.blackberrycool.com/2008/01/09/006336/ Jun 27 15:05:21 mjr: http://www.komplett.nl/k/ki.aspx?sku=348186&cks=ASS&assoc=65B3D214-BAE6-410C-9075-06518B1B62A5 Jun 27 15:05:25 you can however drag a 0 out of the number :) Jun 27 15:05:31 Looks like it can be ordered, Jun 27 15:05:45 AVee, isn't _micro_ Jun 27 15:06:01 8G has been tested Jun 27 15:06:16 tested, sucessful? :) Jun 27 15:06:16 SpeedEvil, on the FR too? Good, though I wasn't really worried. Jun 27 15:06:23 You could in principle use up to 32G full-sized with an adaptor. Jun 27 15:07:11 scratch room for the card on the back casing... Jun 27 15:07:21 Ow, well, 8GB it will be than. Jun 27 15:08:08 Yeah, 8 is fine. Wouldn't settle for less, but it's good. Well, I would settle if they weren't supported, but luckily they are ;) Jun 27 15:08:29 at least the upgrade path is open Jun 27 15:08:29 You can always mount over NFS. Jun 27 15:09:04 Well, to point of the big card was to store music and map-data for unconnected times. Jun 27 15:09:09 and, to be fair, I think if you stick in an 8 GB card in a FreeRunner, it isn't the first thing to be likely to be obsolete ;P Jun 27 15:09:32 yeah, those are major space huggers Jun 27 15:09:36 some web cache data too Jun 27 15:10:09 True, but 8GB will do. Jun 27 15:10:46 while on the topic: 8GB is microSD? Jun 27 15:10:46 And i can always carry more on different cards or memory sticks. It's just a bit less convenient. Jun 27 15:11:00 Tig|, lol Jun 27 15:11:12 cga: yes Jun 27 15:11:28 ok thanks, going to buy one then Jun 27 15:11:29 or you can mount over NFS from another Neo in the unconnected times :p Jun 27 15:11:41 That be cool :D Jun 27 15:12:03 AVee: you can probably use any 1.8" USB hard drive directly too. Jun 27 15:12:07 what about mp3 playback? Jun 27 15:12:13 and video playback? Jun 27 15:12:16 especially one that's not yours and when the owner doesn't know about it :) Jun 27 15:12:47 do they exist yet? Jun 27 15:12:55 balrog-kun, surely the Openmoko DRM subsystem will prevent something like that... Jun 27 15:13:03 SpeedEvil: Probably, but normal USB sticks will do op to 32GB anyway. That should do the job :) Jun 27 15:13:09 AVee: yeah. Jun 27 15:13:10 johnl: oh.. right.. the DRM ;) Jun 27 15:13:25 btw, every linux app will run out of the box? (or at least most?) Jun 27 15:13:39 It's not quite that simple. Jun 27 15:13:55 Most linux apps run on the box. Not out of it on the phone. Jun 27 15:13:58 TAsn: for example, while it's true it's got a 480*640 screen, it has other limits. Jun 27 15:14:12 SpeedEvil, microSDHC is ok? Jun 27 15:14:15 SpeedEvil, 200*200 apps will work? Jun 27 15:14:16 TAsn: touchscreen only, so many mouse apps are clunky. Jun 27 15:14:16 :) Jun 27 15:14:25 most linux apps written before '94 should run seamlessly ;) Jun 27 15:14:31 TAsn: or impossible to use, as you can't see the cursor. Jun 27 15:14:48 TAsn: or in most, the UI elements are too small to use with fingers. Jun 27 15:14:48 (Besides you shouldn't really need something other than bash, perl, and emacs) Jun 27 15:15:00 Ainulindale, true :) Jun 27 15:15:10 :%s/emacs/vim/g Jun 27 15:15:20 ;) Jun 27 15:15:20 Pyrasi: You're drunk, I forgive you Jun 27 15:15:24 Pyrasi, correct. ;) Jun 27 15:15:31 Ainulindale, i must agree with Pyrasi there. Jun 27 15:15:38 T-t-t :-p Jun 27 15:15:44 notepad all the way!! XD Jun 27 15:16:05 ed ftw Jun 27 15:16:12 btw is it usable as it is? (making calls and sms) Jun 27 15:16:13 Seriously, emacs is better. Besides on the freerunner you could call with emacs, typing M^C^A^L^L and your number Jun 27 15:16:19 Only problem Jun 27 15:16:24 You'll need forty two fingers Jun 27 15:16:31 :) Jun 27 15:16:33 M-x dial Jun 27 15:16:52 Coffee break, be back in a troll. Jun 27 15:17:06 can anyone tell me if microSDHC is ok for the freerunner please? Jun 27 15:17:07 Don't care about either vi or emacs, ed is just fine. But I do need irssi :) Jun 27 15:17:14 cga: yes Jun 27 15:17:19 thanks wurp2 Jun 27 15:17:23 yw :-) Jun 27 15:17:26 =) Jun 27 15:17:38 BTW, emacs does run nicely on the GTA01 :-) Jun 27 15:17:41 AVee, weechat all the way XD Jun 27 15:17:42 cgi: I have a 8gb microSDHC waiting ;) Jun 27 15:17:55 TAsn: You're asking if the Freerunner will make calls & sms out of the box? Jun 27 15:18:07 nah... that's a phone thing :P Jun 27 15:18:20 phone calls are overrated Jun 27 15:18:24 only if the box is not made of metal Jun 27 15:18:53 wurp2,not will, does... (current state) Jun 27 15:19:19 TAsn: That's what I meant. Per johnl & Tig|, who got theirs yesterday, yes. Jun 27 15:19:30 my FR won't even turn on :-( Jun 27 15:19:32 cool. Jun 27 15:19:42 is it qtopia based yet? Jun 27 15:19:45 rwhitby: Send it to me and I'll see what I can do with it Jun 27 15:19:57 or is it still the openmoko? (being shipped) Jun 27 15:20:01 TAsn: OM Jun 27 15:20:01 TAsn: no, the shipping image is GTL based Jun 27 15:20:04 TAsn, isn't going to be qtopia-"based" Jun 27 15:20:16 GTK even Jun 27 15:20:46 wurp2: it's suffering from the same stuck PMIC problem as Steve is discussing on the kernel list Jun 27 15:20:52 what about the asu? never will be shipped with that? (i know i can install by my own) Jun 27 15:21:03 It looks to me like the fso is passing the ASU with regard to stable calls Jun 27 15:21:08 rwhitby: that sucks =/ Jun 27 15:21:30 TAsn, "never" would be a silly thing to say. ASU does utilize qtopia but is not really qtopia-based. The phone functions in the ASU are, however. Jun 27 15:21:31 ASU will eventually use FSO wont it? Jun 27 15:21:44 Pyrasi: it sounds like it Jun 27 15:21:59 Or, to put it another way, God, I hope so. Jun 27 15:22:13 aand yeah, then there's the FSO thing. It's all quite a mess, really. Luckily I don't mind messes, but I do hope something comes out of it :] Jun 27 15:22:14 The work being done on FSO makes me very excited. I love the abstraction and use of dbus thay are doing Jun 27 15:22:45 (Didn't mean to say the FSO is a mess, merely that the whole bundle of different things in general is a mess) Jun 27 15:23:21 i agree there Jun 27 15:24:25 but i dont think FSO is part of the mess...its replacing the backend stuff to make all of the mess of frontends (GTK, QT, Enlightenment, etc) more managable Jun 27 15:25:43 the toolkit confusion is just bad timing with the launch of the freerunner IMO Jun 27 15:25:53 it's a part of the mess, but it's one of the internally less messy parts, to be sure :) Jun 27 15:26:32 zedstar_: But it seems like intentional bad timing - someone thought they would just slam in the ASU stuff and get it all done in time for FR release Jun 27 15:26:33 I haven't looked at it in any great detail, but as far as I have, I hope it's the prevailing technology in the end here Jun 27 15:28:38 interesting post now on ML from tangoGPS developer regarding gtk Jun 27 15:29:01 * johnl is installing tango on a gta02 Jun 27 15:29:29 anyone know of a gui to configure wireless on these? the applet appears to do nothing in the current snapshots Jun 27 15:33:02 zedstar_: yea, that is interesting. Though i dont understand why. You can still run GTK programs in ASU.... Jun 27 15:33:14 ASU just looks more functional and has more eye candy Jun 27 15:34:54 i bet that thread is gonna linger for a while Jun 27 15:35:31 yea xD the GTK vs QT debates are long and no one ever says anything worthwhile Jun 27 15:35:53 Does anyone have a link to a good fso snapshot? Jun 27 15:36:00 other than: "Well I have more experience this way so there!" Jun 27 15:36:20 lukhas: Time looks like forever :-p Jun 27 15:36:30 it does indeed Jun 27 15:36:46 almost there Jun 27 15:36:59 wurp2: I think http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/. Jun 27 15:37:08 remove the period at the end >.> Jun 27 15:40:16 Pyrasi: Yeah, I guess I'll try that, but I'd heard that a more recent release supported stable suspend/resume on call Jun 27 15:42:19 wurp2: where did you hear that? Jun 27 15:42:38 orly? huh...thats good to hear. Im not sure...but if i had to guess the most recent code could probably be found at: http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/wiki Jun 27 15:43:53 textshell: Here, a couple of days ago Jun 27 15:44:20 textshell: I pulled an image that someone in that conversation put up a link to, but it doesn't even work consistently for calls for me Jun 27 15:44:35 wurp2: thx, i guess i need to search the logs then. Because i'm thinking about trying FR as my first phone... Jun 27 15:44:37 But I'm not sure it was from one of the people making the claim Jun 27 15:45:16 do you remember who said it (would speed up grepping the logs) Jun 27 15:46:03 textshell: Sorry, no Jun 27 15:46:09 wurp2: np Jun 27 15:46:39 wurp2: may you have been thinking of mwester? Jun 27 15:47:03 SpeedEvil: I don't think so Jun 27 15:47:19 SpeedEvil: I knew mwester has a kernel that is supposed to work for suspend/resume on the GTK release Jun 27 15:47:41 SpeedEvil: I'm almost certain this was a different kernel Jun 27 15:48:50 It was `pwgen` Jun 27 15:49:01 (the backticks are part of his username) Jun 27 15:49:33 From irc history: Jun 24 15:56:24 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: fso image still working !! still receving calls ( moved some kilometers, many resume cycles with wakeup testcalls within the last 24h ) Jun 27 15:49:59 This is handy: wget -O - http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.$DATE.txt 2> /dev/null | grep $REGEX Jun 27 15:50:02 :-) Jun 27 16:05:29 Hello Jun 27 16:06:00 I'm tring to run linux on my HTC magician , but I'm getting all time white screen after the Bootload, can some one help me with that? Jun 27 16:07:04 you don't use Xglamo, right? Jun 27 16:07:18 no Jun 27 16:07:47 I tried OpenMoko images that i found on a site Jun 27 16:07:56 I run the linload.exe Jun 27 16:08:25 I'm seeing the Boot Loader, but when it try to run the kernel i'm getting White Screen Jun 27 16:08:31 Baget: is it a VPA by chance? Jun 27 16:08:41 oh, before the kernel Jun 27 16:08:57 pH5: VPA? Jun 27 16:09:04 what kernel is that? Jun 27 16:09:24 this one Jun 27 16:09:25 http://www.linuxtogo.org/~htcpxa/htcmagician/images/OpenMoko/ Jun 27 16:09:28 Baget: there are a few magician models that have a different LCD than the rest Jun 27 16:09:36 2.6.21-hh17 Jun 27 16:09:40 and support for that is probably not yet in any precompiled kernel image Jun 27 16:09:55 pH5: it is O2 XDA Mini II Jun 27 16:10:42 Sorry guys, BRB Jun 27 16:16:41 Baget: hm, o2 xda mini should have the standard toppoly display and thus be supported. you could try another kernel or dump the LCD controller registers with haret to be sure, but that is a topic for #htc-linux rather than here. Jun 27 16:17:43 wurp2: thanks a lot. Jun 27 16:18:06 textshell: You're welcome Jun 27 16:20:27 hi, can i ask a question? Jun 27 16:20:40 I'm emulating the the freerunner Jun 27 16:20:55 but when I use make qemu I alsways download and use a qtopia image Jun 27 16:21:02 how can I test the fso / ASU ? Jun 27 16:22:16 phew, shop reopened \o/ Jun 27 16:22:23 bearstech.com/shop Jun 27 16:22:39 now featuring more items and more buttons for EU :) Jun 27 16:22:51 lukhas do you by any chance know a sollution for my problem? Jun 27 16:22:53 and afk, going for a walk Jun 27 16:23:18 Zorkman: nope, it's been a long time since I last tried qemu Jun 27 16:23:26 ok, thanks anyway! Jun 27 16:23:30 good luck :) Jun 27 16:23:41 thx Jun 27 16:24:03 Zorkman: Isn't there a flash.sh in the qemu tree? Jun 27 16:24:37 I think you can use it to flash onto your qemu image, in which case you would use the regular instructions (on the wiki) to dl an ASU or fso image Jun 27 16:27:13 thanks Jun 27 16:27:14 I'm very new to this all, Jun 27 16:27:28 i'll search for a flash.sh Jun 27 16:27:52 found it Jun 27 16:28:33 but now I'm stuck again, I don't know what to do... Jun 27 16:30:01 Zorkman: Search on wiki.openmoko.org for 'flash' Jun 27 16:30:14 ok Jun 27 16:30:14 Or google search with site:, because the wiki's search sucks Jun 27 16:30:37 I can't help much with qemu; I never use it Jun 27 16:32:11 thank anyway Jun 27 16:36:04 hmm...will there be OM swag Jun 27 16:36:06 like tees Jun 27 16:37:00 personally I think the OM logo looks a bit like pacman on drugs Jun 27 16:37:23 like pacman who's on drugs or pacman when you're on drugs? Jun 27 16:37:46 it looks like one of those men inside a ball Jun 27 16:38:10 mjr: maybe Jun 27 16:38:14 mjr: ;) Jun 27 16:38:34 no well ten beers Jun 27 16:39:05 mjr: all I know no line of dots is safe around it Jun 27 16:39:40 all I know is no line of pills is safe around me Jun 27 16:40:26 Sup3rkiddo: you t-shirt junkie Jun 27 16:42:13 balrog-kun, i would say that, i do wear tees a lot ;)...no one would want to see my six pack Jun 27 16:42:36 Aaaaaaaaaargh, can't wait for next week Jun 27 16:42:52 Ainulindale, look into cryonics Jun 27 16:42:59 * Sup3rkiddo grins with his SoC device in hand Jun 27 16:43:00 though the thawing process is a bit iffy Jun 27 16:43:23 * mjr pats his poor ol' 1973 Jun 27 16:44:53 mjr, you get a discount..dont you? Jun 27 16:44:59 mjr: sic' :-) Jun 27 16:45:21 mjr: Can't wait to get involved in anything around this device in fact Jun 27 16:47:08 so in the US, the only way to get the phone is with the direct store then? Jun 27 16:47:28 Or import a EU one. Jun 27 16:47:34 (which won't work on 850) Jun 27 16:47:36 kdubois: Well, you could pay $500+ and wait for one to get shipped from EU Jun 27 16:48:05 I'll hand deliver one to you anywhere US for only $5000 :) Jun 27 16:48:27 hmm, generous, but i think ill wait for the store to come up Jun 27 16:48:47 what i was more asking was, that is the place to order them in the US, right? :D Jun 27 16:49:29 Sup3rkiddo: i want an OM executive shirt and tie Jun 27 16:49:33 :p Jun 27 16:49:53 that'd be cool as well :D Jun 27 16:50:16 (i don't really wear those...) Jun 27 16:50:33 tees are yay Jun 27 16:50:39 *nod* Jun 27 16:50:53 Oh, just saw the wishlist Jun 27 16:50:54 t-shirts? Jun 27 16:51:05 t-shirts?? where? Jun 27 16:51:06 Wonder why "Menstruation period timer" didn't get in the SoC program Jun 27 16:51:13 what?! Jun 27 16:51:18 rofl Jun 27 16:51:42 btw, chk ur pad Jun 27 16:51:43 at 28d echo "ugh..." Jun 27 16:51:43 IT JUST DIDN'T OK! Jun 27 16:51:44 :P Jun 27 16:52:10 Whose idea is it ? :-p Jun 27 16:52:33 link Jun 27 16:52:34 Neo might get classified as medical equipment then, and need a special permit Jun 27 16:52:35 ? Jun 27 16:52:43 hehe Jun 27 16:52:46 otherwise people mihgt sue you if it has a bug Jun 27 16:53:21 "Timer was one day off, when it was really 29 days!" Jun 27 16:53:23 sued Jun 27 16:53:29 anything that vibrates is potentially a......(ooops...i fear the ops) Jun 27 16:53:46 Sup3rkiddo: Get a life wanker ! :-) Jun 27 16:54:10 ^^ Jun 27 17:01:29 Is there a room for fso? Jun 27 17:07:06 Is there any resource to know what is the availability of SIP on the freerunner ? Jun 27 17:07:14 (besides google site: research ? :->) Jun 27 17:07:39 wow traffic has picked up in this channel Jun 27 17:07:45 i guess a slashdot story will do that Jun 27 17:10:21 Ainulindale: http://code.google.com/soc/2008/openmoko/appinfo.html?csaid=F194F69181816D98 Jun 27 17:11:36 I think #openmoko is the first channel I know where people actually answer question in less than two weeks Jun 27 17:11:40 +s Jun 27 17:12:01 man, you hang out in all the wrong channels :) Jun 27 17:12:08 Totally. Jun 27 17:12:19 Oh my bad, there's #ampache also Jun 27 17:12:57 wurp2: no more detail ? Jun 27 17:12:58 u shud try the iphone dev channels....ive attempted a few times to ask questions without much luck Jun 27 17:13:25 Ainulindale: google ;-) Jun 27 17:13:36 wurp2: naaaaaa :p Jun 27 17:14:35 Ainulindale: If you follow the mailing lists, or search the archives, you'll see reports from the GSoC dev Jun 27 17:15:14 I was looking through the archives right now, in fact Jun 27 17:15:29 And I should subscribe to the MLs I guess Jun 27 17:15:57 openmoko: 03zecke * ra8e364afd2ce 10/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [clock] Do not force an immediate repaint Jun 27 17:15:57 openmoko: 03zecke * r80d3f3fb4bdd 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [x11] We can use ConfigPending, remove the other option, paint less Jun 27 17:15:57 openmoko: 03zecke * re6d9bcf2da1e 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qapplication_x11.cpp: [x11] We have postponed the Resize and Move from show_helper... do them now Jun 27 17:16:00 openmoko: 03zecke * r52a0632d5aec 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qwidget_x11.cpp: [x11] Change from isVisible to check if the window is mapped. Jun 27 17:21:34 wurp2: the work on gestures looks promising Jun 27 17:22:32 how much should an OM cost in the UK? Jun 27 17:25:05 Ainulindale: I've been impressed with all of the GSoC reports Jun 27 17:25:24 OJW: I think I heard 270 GBP Jun 27 17:27:02 OJW, from the uk reseller it's 272£ which is quite unfair Jun 27 17:27:06 OJW : truebox are selling them for £272 but I think they are on order atm Jun 27 17:27:23 cga: why unfair? Jun 27 17:27:54 meh... it's more than alot if you consider that you get it from pulster at 299€ Jun 27 17:28:12 but i don't know, might be the uk vat Jun 27 17:29:02 possibly but it includes all vat and taxes etc and p&p and also the fact that if you are in the UK then you get a UK phone number to call and deal with Jun 27 17:29:45 disclaimer: I bought mine from truebox and it arrived yesterday :) Jun 27 17:29:58 £272 is £224 + tax Jun 27 17:30:13 + delivery :) Jun 27 17:30:32 are they going taiwan -> USA -> UK, or more direct? Jun 27 17:30:43 well postage is like £2... Jun 27 17:30:48 I presume TW direct to UK Jun 27 17:30:59 ojw : it was next day ups Jun 27 17:31:07 Tig|, what did you get for 272£? only the FR pack ? plus pouch and earplugs? Jun 27 17:31:55 the FR pack, I was supposed to get the pouch and earphones but they were not in the pack from Openmoko, truebox said they will send them on if they show up Jun 27 17:32:38 well that's not bad though. i had to buy pouch and earplugs aside Jun 27 17:32:56 not sure if you ordered now if you will get the pouch and phones, you could e-mail them and ask, their stance on the batch I was part of was along the lines of: we will ship what ever openmoko send us :) Jun 27 17:33:16 eh Jun 27 17:33:32 when they arrived without the pouch and phones they did e-mail to explain what was going on and and gave me the offer to cancel Jun 27 17:33:48 that's cool Jun 27 17:34:45 yep, they were very open about what was going on and the status of the orders and what I was getting and when the kit landed confirmed a few questions on what image they were running etc, can't fault them :) Jun 27 17:35:28 very serious business indeed Jun 27 17:35:35 kudos Jun 27 17:35:47 it would be nice to get the pouch and headphones but it was not a dealbreaker for me and they might still turn up, truebox were expecting them :( Jun 27 17:36:14 by headphones do you mean headset? Jun 27 17:36:29 doc|home, earplugs Jun 27 17:37:03 sorry i mean earphones/earplugs things that go in your ears :) Jun 27 17:37:06 Tig|: did you get a headset? Jun 27 17:37:34 see ^^ up there :) not *yet* but possibly :) Jun 27 17:37:46 are they the same thing for you? :) Jun 27 17:38:00 the headsets are supposed to be a bit crap anyway Jun 27 17:38:29 yep I was part of that order :) Jun 27 17:40:38 The headsets look the same as the ones for the gta01, which are marginally OK Jun 27 17:40:49 Certainly not great Jun 27 17:52:01 so for all you lucky people out there with freerunners already, how is the battery life, call quality, and sound from a headset? Jun 27 18:01:19 interesting... truebox's terms and conditions include a license agreement for any software supplied via their web shop, which isn't necessarily compatible with the free software licenses used in openmoko... Jun 27 18:03:20 OJW: i guess (IANAL) that you get the license for OpenMoko software directly from the right owners not from the shop... So it shouldn't be a big problem for endusers... Jun 27 18:41:58 TimRiker: ~fist is extremely disturbing. Just fyi :p Jun 27 18:48:08 hello Jun 27 18:54:37 hi telmich Jun 27 19:03:16 hou kristian-m Jun 27 19:06:32 yau Jun 27 19:06:37 hmph, wrong chan Jun 27 19:13:56 Why does not freerunner support edge/umts? Jun 27 19:15:59 omg, 50 mails in my inbox asking stuff about Openmoko Jun 27 19:16:02 * lukhas cries Jun 27 19:16:06 LottoKim: it seems that acceptable umts modules are hard to find and to expensive for openmoko (initial cost) Jun 27 19:16:45 I see, Thanks! Jun 27 19:17:56 LottoKim: It's also an openness issue and a power issue Jun 27 19:18:13 actually there are/where no 3G chips available with open documentation. (afaik) Jun 27 19:18:33 I would imagine also a time to release issue, once the gta01 was gprs only Jun 27 19:18:54 kristian-m: + horrible 3G fees Jun 27 19:19:48 wurp2 hard to tell, i would think the interface and AT cmd set would not be that different, don't know though. Jun 27 19:20:53 kristian-m: Yeah, I dunno either, it just seemed like something to consider given the many delays for FR release anyway Jun 27 19:21:17 I have no idea how umts or edge are accessed in terms of api Jun 27 19:21:32 and only a vague idea re: gprs Jun 27 19:22:08 wurp2 at least edge is a firmware thing on the modem, i suspect Jun 27 19:22:36 kristian-m: You think firmware, w/ no hardware difference? Jun 27 19:22:53 wurp2 on an 3g usb-modem it just has to be anabled by an AT cmd Jun 27 19:23:15 most modems offer an AT interface I think Jun 27 19:23:24 wurp2 right, its just a protocoll extention to gsm Jun 27 19:23:36 yeah, but if it used different hardware, the sensible thing would still be to expose it through the normal AT command set Jun 27 19:23:58 this is why EDGE is called 2.5G sometimes Jun 27 19:24:05 2.75 actually Jun 27 19:24:12 but that gets ridiculous fast Jun 27 19:24:27 mjr I would call it a 2G thing. Jun 27 19:24:54 in France it's not called at all, I don't even think EDGE is available widely :) Jun 27 19:24:58 * doc|work wants hsdpa at non-canadian silly prices Jun 27 19:25:11 anyway, one would think edge/gprs differences are invisible outside an edge-supporting gsm chipset Jun 27 19:25:21 even Ireland has affordable hsdpa, wtf is with canada?! Jun 27 19:25:22 anyway nowerdays I would just concentrate on 4G beeing IP - how it gets to my handset isn't importent for me anymore Jun 27 19:25:43 IP works well over GPRS and later Jun 27 19:25:44 as is hsdpa/edge/gprs with 3g chipsets Jun 27 19:26:00 it all depends on your provider and its shitty data plans Jun 27 19:26:10 lukhas it's usable Jun 27 19:26:22 usable is the word, yes Jun 27 19:26:28 you can IRC Jun 27 19:26:33 fetch 3 mails Jun 27 19:26:35 send one Jun 27 19:26:38 but not much :) Jun 27 19:27:02 dunno about the hardware interface of 3g chipsets, but I would suspect it'd be some sort of high speed serial Jun 27 19:27:15 with the same at command set... Jun 27 19:27:34 mjr: alas not in the cheapest cases. Jun 27 19:27:36 but maybe I'm just off Jun 27 19:27:48 okay Jun 27 19:28:00 mjr: it's a shared memory interface to another core on the chip, with custom firmware that runs your application/kernel Jun 27 19:28:30 *nod* Jun 27 19:28:36 what is the avg. battery life of the freerunner? Jun 27 19:29:44 anishmangal2002: ask again in a few months. Jun 27 19:29:50 that's a mostly nonsensical question Jun 27 19:30:16 the battery is better than a laptop, worse than a regular notsmart-phone Jun 27 19:30:34 could be anything between those two limits :) Jun 27 19:31:10 SpeedEvil but pm issues are all solved on hardwareside now, yes? Jun 27 19:31:15 No. Jun 27 19:31:18 Well Jun 27 19:31:23 Apparently. Jun 27 19:31:28 That's not been well tested. Jun 27 19:31:28 hmm Jun 27 19:31:32 anishmangal2002: someone said it lasts close to or just slightly less than a nokia smartphone in call time Jun 27 19:31:41 cpufreq isn't solved... Jun 27 19:31:50 anishmangal2002: that's constant call time, other times vary based on usage Jun 27 19:31:52 SpeedEvil so we have to expect a GTA2.5 then? Jun 27 19:31:56 wurp2: more gains to be had? Jun 27 19:32:00 ok. Jun 27 19:32:09 doc|work: cesarb never finished it Jun 27 19:32:22 doc|work: The usb doesn't change speeds properly, iirc Jun 27 19:32:23 wurp2: nice, means battery life should be even better when someone does Jun 27 19:32:33 kristian-m: I mean - you cannot test the hardware completely adequately without software which does not exist yet. Jun 27 19:32:47 doc|work: Well, you can always just underclock it all the time Jun 27 19:33:00 doc|work: I run my gta01 at 200 mhz - it doesn't seem to affect anything Jun 27 19:33:01 wurp2: yeah, but means manual intervention, meh :) Jun 27 19:33:15 SpeedEvil you could write test software, at last with 10 taiwaneese engineers at hand... :-/ Jun 27 19:33:20 I did it once, to my boot parms, and created a new option to boot at 266 when I want to Jun 27 19:33:37 * doc|work nods Jun 27 19:34:07 doc|work: But suspend/resume are much bigger battery savers, unless you want to keep the phone running all the time to log gps coords or something Jun 27 19:35:11 I would like to do stuff like that, in which case being able to dynamically switch CPU to 40 mhz would be a big boon Jun 27 19:35:24 yes please Jun 27 19:35:29 wurp2: that's working though, right? Jun 27 19:35:50 wurp2 yea it would rock Jun 27 19:36:07 doc|work: Not afaik Jun 27 19:36:37 I think it works if you install cesarb's stuff (no idea how to do that) and are OK with the usb being broken after you change cpu speed Jun 27 19:36:50 wurp2: wow, that could lead to big battery savings Jun 27 19:37:35 maybe a different case could also fit an even bigger battery Jun 27 19:37:51 Well. The usb stuff is soc-internal, yes? So one would _think_ the hardware wouldn't be broken in that respect... Jun 27 19:38:40 mjr: I may be misremembering what it was that didn't survive a cpu frequency change, but I know there was one pernicious piece of hw Jun 27 19:38:49 per cesarb, who should know ;-) Jun 27 19:39:29 hi Jun 27 19:41:01 mmh Jun 27 19:41:06 its possible to run android in freerunner? Jun 27 19:41:19 rgl, if they ever free it, one should be able to port it Jun 27 19:41:27 I think I did misremember which hw was the problem in cpufreq - it looks as if the sd card was the issue Jun 27 19:41:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq#What.27s_already_done Jun 27 19:42:24 mjr, from what I've read, they will free it after the first handset (but you probably already known that better than I hehe) Jun 27 19:43:46 rgl, yes well, maybe. Anyway, the dev. binaries are incompatible with Neo's cpu, and one would think their vm's jitter would require a bit of code generation changes, but shouldn't be overbearing after that Jun 27 19:43:57 a nonzero effort, though, to be sure Jun 27 19:45:18 from the openmoko wiki, android should required an arm5 cpu, isn't the freerunner arm9 compatible with that? Jun 27 19:46:30 arm5 is arm11 and arm9 is arm4 Jun 27 19:46:43 (to obfuscate that matter further) Jun 27 19:46:48 means no Jun 27 19:47:07 android builds are mostly binary, compiled for arm5/11 Jun 27 19:47:08 roh: Those numbering systems are teh stupid Jun 27 19:47:13 indeed Jun 27 19:47:45 oh! Jun 27 19:50:49 "java: yes" on http://www.mobilegazette.com/openmoko-neo-freerunner-08x06x26.htm ... is that true? Jun 27 19:51:57 rgl i guess that is meant: https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page Jun 27 19:52:07 but there is no vm in the default images Jun 27 19:52:58 roh: Are the default images good for anything right now, anyway? ;-) Jun 27 19:53:09 roh, oh I see. thx :-) Jun 27 19:53:15 i think phoning is working in most of them (asu, fso) Jun 27 19:53:35 roh: I didn't know it was working in ASU! Jun 27 19:53:36 long time since ive tried a gtk app based build, but last time it worked even there Jun 27 19:53:55 asu is multiple things and often gets mis-interpreted Jun 27 19:53:58 But I thought both those images lack media player, gps, etc. Jun 27 19:54:04 so java is the least of your worries Jun 27 19:54:24 asu drops the old, buggy middleware, and replaces it with the gpl qtopia-phone-middleware Jun 27 19:54:51 I heard the recent gtk builds were good, but then after that I heard someone commenting on the lack of icons on the media player buttons, so it sounds as if it's not all working Jun 27 19:54:53 does that mean, all apps must be gpl? Jun 27 19:55:22 rgl: Only if they directly use gpl code... Jun 27 19:55:37 the ui moved mostly from matchbox to a efl-driven concept. the 'dialer' app for example is qtopia based. but regardless which ui-toolkit one uses, it all works together on one ui since its x11 Jun 27 19:55:47 wurp2, isn't that the case with qtopia? Jun 27 19:56:09 I would have thought QT is lgpl, if anything... Jun 27 19:56:16 no, it's gpl Jun 27 19:56:26 they sell proprietary developer licenses Jun 27 19:56:30 so its not a move from gtk to qt. but more of a gtk to a more diverse and finetuned combination of things. Jun 27 19:56:32 And as long as your app doesn't #include gpl code, I think you're safe Jun 27 19:56:32 t is not lgpl Jun 27 19:56:36 mjr: Ah, makes sense Jun 27 19:56:43 I don't like it, but it makes sense Jun 27 19:56:51 you don't have to use qt though even in asu Jun 27 19:57:02 but whatever, Jun 27 19:57:16 the license is not a major issue for me Jun 27 19:57:16 the only reason we chose to use the qt middleware and dialer-apps is that they work now, and the fso initiative is not ready yet for primetime. Jun 27 19:57:46 besides that, now we know for sure that developers can use _any_ ui tookit to write applications as they need. Jun 27 19:58:18 well the qtopia port would be sensible for app base alone anyway... Jun 27 19:59:54 mjr regardless of what happens, if somebody wants to use a existing qtopia app, he can do. even if the menus are efl, the dialer is gtk and the games are python-efl or whatever. Jun 27 20:00:05 yeah I know Jun 27 20:00:09 hence my last statement Jun 27 20:00:38 the point is that we now have access to all 'linux apps' in some easy way, and thats also valid for developer base. Jun 27 20:00:57 ah cool :) Jun 27 20:01:06 linux on the desktop wouldnt be so great and where its now if there wouldnt have been gtk AND qt. Jun 27 20:01:31 I agree on all counts Jun 27 20:01:58 the gnome and kde communities often overlap and somehow help doing things differently and learning more about technology than if one only tests one concept and then only uses the other. evolution needs diversity. Jun 27 20:02:00 The only thing I don't like about ASU is the timing & the dropping of support for the working GTK platform Jun 27 20:02:37 Or perhaps it's more accurate to say the hiaitus in support for the GTK platform Jun 27 20:02:49 linux development is more evolution in the long run .. in the now it may all have architects and good designers doing work. but in the long run things must be 'good' to prevail Jun 27 20:03:34 wurp2 support isnt dropped. there were even bugs fixed related to gtk skinning recently. just there is no telephony-app installed by default which uses gtk Jun 27 20:04:00 what is python-etk? can't we run normal pygtk apps? Jun 27 20:04:08 is gtk themed now? to match the asu? Jun 27 20:04:12 wurp2 when somebody takes the gtk telephony apps and removes the gsmd binding and attaches it to FSO.. i'd really like to see that. Jun 27 20:04:45 rgl thats also possible afaik. dunno if all libs are installed, but they can be installed easily by using opkg Jun 27 20:05:12 rg1 the openmoko-distribution works like debian, and one can easily install and remove packages to customize the install Jun 27 20:05:41 cool :) Jun 27 20:05:47 asu will also have a graphical app to do that. switch on, log into some wifi, press update, press upgrade. Jun 27 20:06:06 I want to order a GTA02 please! Jun 27 20:06:09 heh Jun 27 20:06:23 if I'm in the USA, what are my options Jun 27 20:06:26 if any? Jun 27 20:06:28 * russellb hopes the responsiveness of the ASU image improves ... it seemed far less responsive than the gtk build on the FR as of now ... Jun 27 20:06:28 if mung can get one, i want one two Jun 27 20:06:30 I can also connect using ssh/telnet from my pc through wifi/usb? Jun 27 20:06:37 mung: att or tmobile Jun 27 20:06:44 I'm going to hold my breath now Jun 27 20:06:57 already? Jun 27 20:07:14 what do you mean," already?" Jun 27 20:07:17 no links on the Linuxdevices web page Jun 27 20:07:18 mung: get really drunk for about a week. When you sober up the OM store should be open. Jun 27 20:07:24 the slashdotted page Jun 27 20:07:39 ok ok I can has ale Jun 27 20:07:46 i ordered it this afternoon Jun 27 20:07:55 igor321: you in europe? Jun 27 20:07:59 yupp Jun 27 20:08:07 * kdubois glares at igor321 Jun 27 20:08:20 we in the Dark Ages of USA can't get good cellies Jun 27 20:08:27 have to wait for my country's telecom agency to "approve" it unfortunately Jun 27 20:08:31 tech backwater USA Jun 27 20:08:41 went there today with the PDFs from the wiki Jun 27 20:08:50 ya for now I'd use it as a PDA Jun 27 20:09:06 igor321, what do you mean? can't you use any phone in your country? Jun 27 20:09:20 rgl: well not really Jun 27 20:09:37 hi all, can openmoko accept and give calls without any problem? i am planning to buy it as a gift as well as buying one for myself Jun 27 20:09:41 igor321, where are you at? Jun 27 20:09:41 my country says that any imported phone has to be certified Jun 27 20:09:46 croatia Jun 27 20:09:51 mung: Keep checking www.openmoko.com Jun 27 20:10:21 MrKeuner, without any problem is not for sale right now Jun 27 20:10:34 check back later this year Jun 27 20:10:52 mjr: what kind of problems might she have? Jun 27 20:10:58 roh: The issue is that we used to have a release we could pull down and expect basic functionality to mostly work, and as far as I know we have yet to get back to that state Jun 27 20:11:30 MrKeuner, any and all Jun 27 20:11:36 Keep checking www.openmoko.com is a good way to forget Jun 27 20:11:38 wurp2: i think we're already sorta at that state Jun 27 20:12:11 igor321: What is the new image to pull? Jun 27 20:12:52 wurp2: dunno, i just saw great progress with the status reports on the web Jun 27 20:13:00 wurp2 well.. we didnt have real 'reÃleases' yet. Jun 27 20:13:03 http://people.openmoko.org/testing/software/Testreport/ Jun 27 20:14:44 lookin at this link again, it ain't too good, but the progress is evident, look the installer is almost 100% pass :) Jun 27 20:14:59 can I use external flash memory cards in freerunner Jun 27 20:15:19 does it have a microphone? Jun 27 20:15:34 MrKeuner: yes you can and yes it does Jun 27 20:15:54 well, it's a phone Jun 27 20:16:08 I mean a mic (optimized may be) to record voice Jun 27 20:16:33 how would you speak into it if it had no mic? Jun 27 20:16:36 it wouldn't be very useful without a mic Jun 27 20:16:41 heh Jun 27 20:16:44 MrKeuner the hardware is ready, but the soware is still alpha. Jun 27 20:16:52 MrKeuner: It has the phone mic, you would have to use software to do any clean up, compression, etc. Jun 27 20:17:17 but basically it's no different than a mic connected to your pc Jun 27 20:17:19 but there is good progress and when asu is finished it will give a quite usable, still minimalistic, but working phone Jun 27 20:17:23 But basic recording is very easy, although there's no end user app for it Jun 27 20:18:41 ARM9 that is not an i386 is it? Jun 27 20:18:52 nope, it's an arm :) Jun 27 20:19:02 .oO(openmoko rule number 23 - the answer to most questions is 'yes or maybe, BUT') Jun 27 20:19:28 nope.. arm is a totally different arch. like also sparc, ppc and mips (all not i386 or similar) Jun 27 20:19:32 is there a package manager? Jun 27 20:19:42 yes. opkg (successor of ipkg) Jun 27 20:19:44 so yeah guys, on a lighter note, what apps are you looking forward to using or writing for moko? Jun 27 20:20:04 since most of us will have it soon Jun 27 20:20:05 igor321: dibs on vlc :D Jun 27 20:20:16 hehe Jun 27 20:20:17 igor321: Smart media sync Jun 27 20:20:24 roh: can I see the repository? Jun 27 20:20:27 i just got into things, but i'm going to start hacking at VoIP related functionality. Jun 27 20:20:37 i'd like to see a mythtv frontend and a perfect fishing app Jun 27 20:20:49 igor321: And movie player, as one I look forward to using Jun 27 20:20:52 are there any precompiled images of om that I can test? and how do I get a suitable build of qemu for it? Jun 27 20:21:06 MrKeuner which one.. source or packages? Jun 27 20:21:09 wurp2: i don't think you'll need to wait to long for that Jun 27 20:21:12 packages Jun 27 20:21:14 I'm gonig to try and write an app that uses the navit libraries to give GPS/map directions in the car as well as playing music/redirecting calls to the car speakers through an FM transmitter Jun 27 20:21:18 or source Jun 27 20:21:31 MrKeuner source is in git.openmoko.org and svn.openmoko.org Jun 27 20:21:39 you can browse them via docs.openmoko.org Jun 27 20:21:42 is anyone doing a youtube browser? Jun 27 20:21:45 igor321: I'm using neo1973... I think if I played with mplayer parameters, I could actually have it now Jun 27 20:22:09 roh: OK may be package repository might be easier for me Jun 27 20:22:44 and i'd also like to see gnash ported Jun 27 20:22:48 MrKeuner packages are on different machines, depending on which branch is built. we have the buildhost.openmoko.org for the daily builds and downloads.openmoko.org for longer living stuff Jun 27 20:23:11 igor321: I don't think that will be easy... Jun 27 20:23:35 roh: thinking in debian terminology first one is sid repository latter is stable repository I would think? Jun 27 20:23:36 igor321: I think to run at good speeds, it may need to transcode to mpeg4 and use glamo Jun 27 20:23:51 wurp2: youtube? Jun 27 20:24:11 igor321: You know about the bandwidth issues with glamo? Jun 27 20:24:15 Youtube should be doable without. Jun 27 20:24:18 In QVGA Jun 27 20:24:22 wurp2: yes i do Jun 27 20:24:33 youtube basically is qvga? Jun 27 20:24:34 MrKeuner we have no real stable builds yet. Jun 27 20:24:35 As it's not typically very high framerate, and is low bitrate, easy to download. Jun 27 20:24:41 easy to decode. Jun 27 20:24:50 i think gta02 could pull it at 20 fps Jun 27 20:24:54 For most stuff, there is a triple-whammy. Jun 27 20:25:12 Firstly, you've got the limited GPU bandwidth - which is 7M/second. Jun 27 20:25:29 faern: mokomakefile can do those Jun 27 20:25:35 Secondly, you've got the fact that that's at 0% CPU - if you need 50% CPU, it drops back to 3.5M/s Jun 27 20:25:54 i think most of us are aware of that by now :) Jun 27 20:25:59 Thirdly, subtract from that 3.5M/s the bandwidth read from SD. Jun 27 20:26:06 can package manager download as well? Jun 27 20:26:19 igor321: I was recapping for the newbies. Jun 27 20:26:27 SpeedEvil, there will never be video playback? Jun 27 20:26:30 MrKeuner yes. Jun 27 20:26:36 according to raster qvga was 19 fps from SD, 21 from elsewhere Jun 27 20:26:39 TAsn: it's a little more complex. Jun 27 20:26:41 online-update via http like a debian machine Jun 27 20:26:51 so it's certainly good enoght for youtube Jun 27 20:27:06 igor321: I missed that post... Jun 27 20:27:08 TAsn: it can just about barely do QVGA at low-framerate from your average VCD class video, but it will skip a lot of frames. Jun 27 20:27:23 people, looks like really great work is here. thank you. I appreciate it. Jun 27 20:27:31 TAsn: if the video is mpeg-4, transcoded, then it can do it very, very easily due to the coprocessor. Jun 27 20:27:41 mmh, youtube has mp4 available nowadays though (check keepvid.com for how to get a download link) - you could play that with the gpu decoding Jun 27 20:27:51 so mp4 will be usable? Jun 27 20:27:57 already is Jun 27 20:28:11 can I choose a pure free software option or do I need some open source projects as well in order to have basic functionality Jun 27 20:28:11 TAsn: it can probably do youtube quite well even without it being mpeg-4, as that is very small - often under QVGA - and low framerate. Jun 27 20:28:44 SpeedEvil, i meant mp4 generally, meaning my homevids in mp4 or something. Jun 27 20:28:47 MrKeuner, your question makes no sense Jun 27 20:29:01 mjr: Doesn't it? Jun 27 20:29:20 TAsn: if the files are some sort of mpeg-4 that the GPU supports, then you can easily play them. Jun 27 20:29:38 mjr: He's asking if he can run a Debian-style super-Free release, or if he needs non-GPL compliant code Jun 27 20:29:39 SpeedEvil, wicked :) Jun 27 20:29:49 In the firmware, gsm code is totally closed Jun 27 20:29:49 TAsn: if they are not, then they will - if they are large or high res - not really work very well. Jun 27 20:29:56 MrKeuner, i think you can't Jun 27 20:30:07 TAsn: high FPS that is. Without being transcoded to a format that is supported Jun 27 20:30:08 since there's the gsm firmware Jun 27 20:30:12 TAsn: is that because of drivers? Jun 27 20:30:13 MrKeuner: But, the short answer is no, I believe. There is definitely non-free firmware code that you need Jun 27 20:30:21 MrKeuner: Not sure about the platform code Jun 27 20:30:39 wurp2: I see thanks Jun 27 20:30:40 wurp2, the firmwares are not "open source projects" though either :] Jun 27 20:30:51 SpeedEvil: For what definition of "easily"? Jun 27 20:30:57 The GSM part is a seperate processor, that admittedly has leaked docs - but there is no likelyhood of an opensource driver anytime soon. Jun 27 20:31:02 mjr: I remember reading somewhere 100% floss Jun 27 20:31:03 SpeedEvil: You mean easy for a coder, not easy for an end-user (currently) Jun 27 20:31:12 MrKeuner, yes, on the application processor Jun 27 20:31:27 wurp2: Yes - I mean - eventually - given development of reportedly existing software. Jun 27 20:31:38 MrKeuner, but you know, there are some 5 processors on board in integrated peripherals Jun 27 20:31:44 mjr: 7 IIRC Jun 27 20:32:17 are there any intention to totally free the hardware? Jun 27 20:32:19 and while it would be sweet to have free software on those, it's not possible in present conditions Jun 27 20:32:26 mjr: bluetooth, wifi, GSM hard-realtime, GSM interface, SoC, RISC unit in the Glamo, GPS Jun 27 20:32:40 MrKeuner: that would actually be illegal in many jurisdictions. Jun 27 20:33:12 MrKeuner: once the first person misused the freerunner, with open GSM drivers, it'd become illegal to sell under the mobile phone hacking laws. Jun 27 20:33:16 (in the UK) Jun 27 20:34:10 SpeedEvil: why would free gsm drivers impose a security issue, may I ask if not taking too much time Jun 27 20:34:12 mjr: and the audio router chip may almost be turing complete :) Jun 27 20:34:40 MrKeuner: because you can - for example - do direct phone-phone transfers of data monopolising one channel without going through the tower. Jun 27 20:34:59 MrKeuner: this gives you 'free' talk between two handsets, and datarates of maybe 500kbits/sec. Jun 27 20:35:18 MrKeuner: and wipes out 8-16 users that may be makine emergency calls. Jun 27 20:37:01 SpeedEvil: I did not know we are sharing an "air bandwidth"? with people in the same location. Jun 27 20:37:28 I didn't know there was any other way Jun 27 20:38:11 well, with rf, anyway; now, those autodirected laser links like in Rainbows End ;) Jun 27 20:39:13 MrKeuner: Cellphones are fundamentally half an invention. Jun 27 20:39:43 MrKeuner: The other half is the spectrum and timeslot planning that the towers do to ensure that no two phones transmit at the same frequency and the same time. Jun 27 20:40:01 MrKeuner: this means that a distant relatively low power phone can be recieved. Jun 27 20:40:15 MrKeuner: without this, they would be _much_ less reliable. Jun 27 20:41:41 in such case I think it would be fair to accept a concortium handling the source rather than solely gsm operators Jun 27 20:42:52 the problem comes in making the consortium organized and professional enough for the service operators to trust it though... Jun 27 20:43:36 MrKeuner, anyway, discounting that, all of the hardware in the Freerunner is operable with free drivers on the application processor side, though some of their programming informations are under NDA. That's pretty much the best OM could do. Jun 27 20:44:53 OM is open manufacturing? Jun 27 20:45:02 OpenMoko Jun 27 20:45:08 oh :) sorry Jun 27 20:45:09 the inc. Jun 27 20:45:45 thanks for enlightening me, sounds fair so far Jun 27 20:47:05 any news on north america store? Jun 27 20:48:00 mjr: though the programming stuff leakedd Jun 27 20:48:08 SpeedEvil, yes well, at least for the GSM chip, yes Jun 27 20:49:40 the gpu stuff like mpeg4 decoding one hears balrog-kun did using libglamo and study of a windows mobile driver or something Jun 27 21:24:45 How are you gentlemen? Jun 27 21:25:08 hey Dave Jun 27 21:25:11 Hi Dave Jun 27 21:25:12 hello Jun 27 21:25:26 it's weird to see someone typing using my name Jun 27 21:27:12 on another channel i am that would trigger all about 40 people to change their nicks to Dave (with some suffix perhaps) in a matter of minute Jun 27 21:27:21 * Dave gives doc|work a questionable look. Jun 27 21:27:43 * Dave draws his sword. Jun 27 21:29:15 In any case, I'll slay all those who challenge me, later. Jun 27 21:29:26 For now, it's time to try and get a camera working with the GTA02. Jun 27 21:30:33 Oh, who wanted to know about the 8GB flash? Jun 27 21:31:12 Dave: i think quite some want to know. Jun 27 21:31:18 Ah :] Jun 27 21:31:30 Well I shall keep you updated on that soon :) Jun 27 21:31:38 I have a question... but I understand that you folks can feel upset, so feel free to tell me shut up: I stopped looking at openmoko ML for a while, and now the release of freerunner is on the way... but I wonder about the battery life issue Jun 27 21:32:06 i think there's a wiki page that would be nice to be updated too. Jun 27 21:32:50 n1c0: i wonder too. But there are no strong indicators for remaining hardware bugs. Jun 27 21:33:20 I 've just looked at the community updates page but there is no clear conclusion ... Jun 27 21:34:01 textshell: good point. Jun 27 21:34:05 there seem to be software problems with suspend/resume. Jun 27 21:34:19 okay Jun 27 21:34:44 i think they're almost resolved Jun 27 21:35:08 I always face these advanced power management issues, but halt and reboot should be fine at least. Jun 27 21:35:26 igor321: but not yet long enough to have good reports on the battery time.... Jun 27 21:35:57 textshell: the best we got is 20 h or so Jun 27 21:36:00 i forgot Jun 27 21:36:10 when i say we i mean the community Jun 27 21:36:18 It is a very black point since the matter has been revealed a long time ago.... but still no fix ! Jun 27 21:36:20 it was on the ML, someone did test it Jun 27 21:37:46 igor321: i think that 20h was without suspend or something, right? Jun 27 21:38:11 20h is not really enough for a real phone, is it? Jun 27 21:38:28 20 hours up ? no more ? Jun 27 21:38:36 textshell: no it's not, but is certainly good enough for me Jun 27 21:38:44 it's bound to improve Jun 27 21:38:52 igor321: how do you really use the phone? Jun 27 21:38:58 even with wifi/bluetooth down ? Jun 27 21:39:02 In principe. Jun 27 21:39:09 And we still need to think about the bat loosing capacity with time. Jun 27 21:39:12 and i look forward to testing it myself, next week when i get the gta02 Jun 27 21:39:12 With suspend acting properly, it should last over a week. Jun 27 21:39:58 n1c0: *if* i remember correctly that 20h figure was with every thing powered down except gsm and cpu at full speed. Jun 27 21:40:08 Okay, and what about the wrong electronix component onboard ? It should have been fixed if it was an hardware issue right ? Jun 27 21:40:17 n1c0: it has been. Jun 27 21:40:35 okay thank you guys Jun 27 21:40:44 n1c0: it was - as I understand it - a missing resistor - which would have perhaps caused damage longterm. Jun 27 21:40:54 It was certainly outside the spec of the PMU Jun 27 21:40:57 SpeedEvil: yes, if the suspend will work reliable i think we have enough standby time for the phone to be usable. Jun 27 21:41:13 suspend is _crucial_ Jun 27 21:41:23 and depends on kernel dev team right ? Jun 27 21:41:33 textshell:how much are we looking at now? Jun 27 21:41:39 textshell: with all off and suspended to RAM, it should last a couple of months. Jun 27 21:41:51 textshell: suspended to disk, and 'off' - better than a year. Jun 27 21:41:53 SpeedEvil: with auto wakeup on call? Jun 27 21:41:57 SpeedEvil: waow ! Jun 27 21:42:08 doc|home: no - those are with GSM off. Jun 27 21:42:19 SpeedEvil: how long with gsm? Jun 27 21:42:28 doc|home: though in principle you could wake the modem every hour or so and check for missed calls. Jun 27 21:42:34 not much point if gsm can't wake it out of its state :) Jun 27 21:42:37 doc|home: over a week. Jun 27 21:42:48 SpeedEvil: really? now? Jun 27 21:42:59 doc|home: probably more like two. No - I'm speaking of hypotheticals. Jun 27 21:43:04 ah :/ Jun 27 21:43:10 doc|home: if the published numbers are accurate. Jun 27 21:43:24 a week would be very long by smartphone standards Jun 27 21:44:25 More accurate way to say it would be 3% of battery/day in standby 10% additional to have GSM on and wakeable, 3%/hour to have CPU idle, ... Jun 27 21:44:27 in fact, that'd be reasonably impressive by non-smartphone standards. my motorola l2 doesn't last that long and I have no friends :( Jun 27 21:44:37 (who call me or text me) Jun 27 21:44:42 (numbers approximate) Jun 27 21:45:16 doc|work: true, but not sure that every window$ mobile or whatever else smartphone gets the same power management Jun 27 21:45:30 n1c0: true, but even so Jun 27 21:46:09 How are you doing today, Speed? Jun 27 21:46:27 suspend to ram should not reach high scores, but hibernation.... for sure Jun 27 21:46:28 doc - aww Jun 27 21:46:37 I've already maxxxed it. Jun 27 21:46:46 gogo gadget gps! Jun 27 21:46:56 Dave: fine. Still having trouble with assorted things. Jun 27 21:47:09 now the real intersting bit of information is how well is the suspend resume code working yet.... Jun 27 21:47:17 n1c0: suspend-RAM means 'instant' on. (in principle.) Jun 27 21:47:32 n1c0: suspending to 'disk' will take >20 secs to come back. Jun 27 21:47:44 SpeedEvil: even on a phone ? Jun 27 21:48:07 n1c0: yes. If you drop the power to the RAM, it has to pull all the data off SD - which is slow. Jun 27 21:48:18 SpeedEvil: I thought hibernation was the keys for such devices... :( Jun 27 21:48:25 can the GSM wake the phone while in suspend-RAM? Jun 27 21:48:47 anishmangal2002: yes Jun 27 21:49:20 i wouldn't even really consider suspend to SD. I don't think there's that much software running on it that a reboot would hurt that much... Jun 27 21:49:39 Power consumption in suspend-RAM - with everything else off - is around 5%/day or so. Jun 27 21:49:40 lukhas: did you reopen the store ? Jun 27 21:49:56 textshell: reboot is even slower Jun 27 21:50:13 SpeedEvil: if suspend to ram can be woken out of by call then you really can have a month battery life :) Jun 27 21:50:33 Power consumption in suspend-disk is hugely under that. Jun 27 21:50:35 SpeedEvil: Has that been implemented as yet? Jun 27 21:50:48 SpeedEvil: sure, but suspend-disk is to slow to come out of for calls Jun 27 21:50:52 *too Jun 27 21:50:53 anishmangal2002: I'm speaking of end-cases - when it's all implemented. Jun 27 21:51:00 doc|home: I agree - usually. Jun 27 21:51:13 doc|work: if you want to wake on call you need GSM powered. Jun 27 21:51:27 and that's a big energy user... Jun 27 21:51:28 just gimme a couple of days... Jun 27 21:51:35 doc|home: GSM powered is maybe 10%/day additional to those numbers. Jun 27 21:51:48 textshell: ah, ok, so you can't suspend at that stage, can you? Jun 27 21:51:53 (to ram) Jun 27 21:52:35 doc|work: suspend to ram should be ok. Only you need suspend to ram + GSM powered. Jun 27 21:52:42 *sigh* Jun 27 21:52:46 ah, right, so about 15% per day :/ Jun 27 21:52:49 GSM is done on a dedicated controller. Jun 27 21:52:51 still not bad at all Jun 27 21:52:59 rampant confusion... Jun 27 21:53:01 textshell: a couple of them even. Jun 27 21:53:15 textshell: but it can't take a call - I don't think - without the SoC awake Jun 27 21:53:59 it needs to be able to reliablly and selectivly (only on calls and sms) wake the SoC... Jun 27 21:54:10 the soc could go to sleep after answering a call though... Jun 27 21:54:16 and the SoC needs to be fast enough to get back to userspace to answer. Jun 27 21:54:32 There are plausible 'half-way-houses'. Jun 27 21:54:55 A minimally configureable 1M or so image that just does answering calls and stuff while the rest is pulled from disk. Jun 27 21:55:09 doesn't seem worth it Jun 27 21:55:19 That's a lot of work to go to to get from (say) 10 days with suspend-RAM to 15 days with suspend-disk. Jun 27 21:56:20 10 days is a great competitive advantage for openmoko Jun 27 21:56:20 SpeedEvil: for incoming calls suspend to ram is likely needed. And with that you don't need to scale down an image. Jun 27 21:56:35 textshell: without hacks, yes. Jun 27 21:56:56 textshell: and suspending to disk to get 50% extra standby is definately a hack. Jun 27 21:57:35 It wouldn't be so bad if we had the full potential speed of the SD - the one I have can read out a 64M image in 5s or so. Jun 27 21:57:49 hmm, reloading at 7Mb/s all the memory might itself take some time. Jun 27 21:58:06 Yeah - this is not practical in normal use. Jun 27 21:58:27 "just gimme a couple of days..." Jun 27 21:59:02 But in some cases - you need to be contactable - but you're going backpacking for a couple of weeks - it might be just fine. Jun 27 21:59:20 If it's an emergency, 20s is going to be just fine. Jun 27 21:59:40 Was it trolltech or Openmoko who ported Qtopia to Xorg / Jun 27 21:59:41 ? Jun 27 22:00:57 SpeedEvil: yes, for special use cases like "somewhere with GSM coverage; without power for days and only for real emergencies" it might work. Jun 27 22:01:22 But adding a solar panel might be a lot easier... Jun 27 22:01:27 hah Jun 27 22:01:31 well, lame question, is there a recharger in the pack? Jun 27 22:01:36 LionKMP: yep Jun 27 22:02:03 great! :) a fastcharger one then, I guess? Jun 27 22:02:11 could be nice if you could just outright suspend to disk and then have something listening which said "hold on a minute, my phone's waking up" :) Jun 27 22:02:33 LionKMP: yep, 1-2hours iirc Jun 27 22:03:21 doc|work: thanks, very good. (I saw a very scary/complicated how to recharge guide :) ) Jun 27 22:06:36 CVirus, you mean X, and apparently there was some code present but quite a lot work to be done still Jun 27 22:06:48 CVirus, so afaik both Jun 27 22:07:34 * johnl searches for resources on getting andriod on the gta02 Jun 27 22:07:54 don't bother, it's not possible yet Jun 27 22:08:37 lot of work to make it work? Jun 27 22:08:57 some work, which can't be done until they, you know, actually free it Jun 27 22:09:08 android only runs on the armv5 instruction set I think Jun 27 22:09:18 and the gta02 uses armv4 Jun 27 22:09:26 it's not free already? Jun 27 22:09:30 it's not Jun 27 22:09:35 mjr: X == Xorg Jun 27 22:09:39 there's hype and promises of freeing Jun 27 22:09:55 I just saw a video where the big haired owned of google called it "open source" Jun 27 22:10:01 whatever open source means tbh. Jun 27 22:10:28 not that I trust google of course Jun 27 22:10:43 these wephone people seem to be in bed with them somewhat Jun 27 22:10:56 guess they're working on it. Jun 27 22:11:05 since it's clearly a gta02, heh Jun 27 22:12:28 * mjr suspends to ram Jun 27 22:12:42 aww, what the heck, I don't have to wake up fast, I'll make it to disk Jun 27 22:12:46 textshell: or low battery conditions. Jun 27 22:13:09 textshell: or if you've explicitly told it to go to sleep when you do. Jun 27 22:15:36 cellphones are duty free into canada reguardless where they are manufactured! Jun 27 22:15:51 bbl\ Jun 27 22:16:29 Railer: really? nice one! Jun 27 22:16:43 Railer: so it's just delivery + gst Jun 27 22:23:55 johnl: Yep. That's correct on the wephone. Jun 27 22:24:28 actually, android looks less attractive now I have some actual facts about it Jun 27 22:24:46 Guys, I'm not much of a mailing lists user .. but when I click reply in a certain thread page in my gmail ... it automatically enters the E-mail of the user in the To field ... instead of the E-mail of the list Jun 27 22:25:05 if i sent it this way .. is it posted to the list or not Jun 27 22:27:11 CVirus: no.. use reply-to-all Jun 27 22:27:14 if the list is not in CC, then nope Jun 27 22:27:34 I'll argue that gmail's reply button should be reply to all by default :/ Jun 27 22:27:41 I hate accidentally taking stuff off the list Jun 27 22:28:08 reply to all adds the user to the To field and the list to the CC field Jun 27 22:28:27 CVirus: is that not what you want? Jun 27 22:28:38 I just want to post to the list in this thread Jun 27 22:29:26 Why would it send to the user Jun 27 22:29:32 .. yes Jun 27 22:29:34 but that's what you want Jun 27 22:29:45 if you're replying to them, would you not want to let them know? Jun 27 22:29:46 no ... I want to post to the list Jun 27 22:29:58 no .. I'm replying on the thread Jun 27 22:29:59 ah, then compose an email to the list Jun 27 22:30:10 then forge the name yourself? Jun 27 22:30:18 lol .. what name ? Jun 27 22:30:21 am I stupid ? Jun 27 22:30:23 the To: Jun 27 22:30:30 I don't see the issue with sending it to the person is Jun 27 22:30:41 if you're replying to their message in the email, you set them as the To: recipient Jun 27 22:30:43 simply .. how can I post an E-mail to a certain thread ? Jun 27 22:31:01 you send an email to the list with the corrent in-reply-id Jun 27 22:31:06 s/corrent/correct Jun 27 22:34:07 got it now Jun 27 22:34:09 thanks Jun 27 22:42:51 hello Jun 27 22:43:12 is it possible to buy a debug board for neo1973? how much does it cost now? Jun 27 22:44:05 I don't think those are sold anymore ... check on ebay Jun 27 22:44:53 CVirus, just did but no result Jun 27 22:47:21 Ghiottone: maybe a freerunner debug board will work? Jun 27 22:47:53 they should be on sale already. I think there's some info about debug board compat on the mailling list. Jun 27 22:49:29 textshell, I think it will be compatible. But since I own a Neo1973 and I won't buy Freerunner I hoped I could buy debug board v1 at a cheaper price Jun 27 22:49:47 not likely. Jun 27 22:49:57 textshell, why? Jun 27 22:50:45 i guess there are no factory new old boards anymore. So only ebay, but you said there are non sold there... Jun 27 22:51:15 ask on mailing list, might be a better way of finding them Jun 27 22:51:36 yeah probably they won't make it anymore. But maybe a previous owner or unsold ones Jun 27 22:51:50 Ghiottone, probably the new one is quite compatible with neo1973 Jun 27 22:52:43 btw, the price for the new one is $99 Jun 27 22:52:59 OJW, good idea. I'll probably wait a few days more, just to wait for the freerunner to start shippinh Jun 27 22:53:11 s/shippinh/shipping/ Jun 27 22:53:11 Ghiottone meant: OJW, good idea. I'll probably wait a few days more, just to wait for the freerunner to start shipping Jun 27 22:53:50 Ghiottone, some one is already shipping Jun 27 22:53:50 Ghiottone: jOERG_rw would know if the new debug board works with gta01, or you can ask on the list Jun 27 22:54:30 http://www.openmoko.com/store.html Jun 27 22:54:53 diego_, balrog-kun, yes, it should be compatible. I'd just like to save some money buying the v1 version as I won't buy Gta01 so v2 has no plus for me Jun 27 22:55:08 s/Gta01/GTA02/ Jun 27 22:55:09 Ghiottone meant: diego_, balrog-kun, yes, it should be compatible. I'd just like to save some money buying the v1 version as I won't buy GTA02 so v2 has no plus for me Jun 27 22:55:33 well, i wouldn't bet on it, i'd definitely check first Jun 27 22:56:23 good luck Jun 27 22:56:28 :) Jun 27 22:56:53 goodnight Jun 27 22:59:13 diego_awak, thanks Jun 27 22:59:38 is it planned to introduce 3g capabilites to the several present phone/modem deamons present in openmoko in long term? Jun 27 23:00:03 dcordes, there are polls and sig, but no official answer Jun 27 23:01:38 I'd like to use openmoko on my htc kaiser but that's not possible with the current situation which also applies to many other devices in the wild Jun 27 23:02:53 dcordes: sure it's possible! Just port linux, ... Jun 27 23:03:38 balrog-kun, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 Jun 27 23:03:48 SpeedEvil: Done, ..? Jun 27 23:06:34 dcordes: then you need to get all the ancillary stuff working - hardware, ... - then crosscompile, then adapt for your screen size Jun 27 23:07:23 SpeedEvil: already did several builds, including x11-image openmoko-image openmoko-fso X isn't starting and it's hard to debug atm Jun 27 23:07:51 SpeedEvil: can't I poke with the gsmd or whatever is the current daemon from command line? Jun 27 23:11:28 dcordes: ssh in, start X, see what the errors are. Jun 27 23:13:56 SpeedEvil: no can't got no way in yet. that's why I say it's hard to debug it. Can't I debug the gsm stuff from the command line? Jun 27 23:14:22 SpeedEvil: the htckaiser has a qwerty Jun 27 23:14:23 dcordes: you can't ssh in? Jun 27 23:14:29 dcordes: oh Jun 27 23:14:31 no networking yet Jun 27 23:14:39 dcordes: well - start X and output the output to a file Jun 27 23:14:45 Then look at those errors Jun 27 23:15:30 that's also impossible because of lack of storage drivers. I boot the rootfs as ramdisk and am locked there. that's why I'd just like to experiment with the openmoko modem programs from a cli Jun 27 23:15:39 Ah. Jun 27 23:15:44 got sound? Jun 27 23:15:51 festival? Jun 27 23:16:35 well the handset sound but I don't know if we can acces it yet for different purposes than phone calls yet Jun 27 23:16:43 yet Jun 27 23:16:44 ^^ Jun 27 23:17:04 dcordes: You start X and it just goes blank? Jun 27 23:17:43 SpeedEvil: no it actually draws the usual X checkers background half the screen Jun 27 23:17:50 and sometimes third screen Jun 27 23:18:01 and your frozen in that half-background then Jun 27 23:18:44 rest is black Jun 27 23:19:08 SpeedEvil: and that's definetly just an x problem. the console-images work perfectly Jun 27 23:27:19 dcordes: sorry - no insight. Jun 27 23:27:34 dcordes: without network or persistant storage, it's hard. Jun 27 23:28:32 dcordes: is the modem up? Jun 27 23:30:59 wurp2: usb doesn't have to change speed, it uses a separate PLL, but for some reason it stops working after a change Jun 27 23:31:16 wurp2: what else doesn't work: sound, sd, didn't test bluetooth... Jun 27 23:31:53 wurp2: and you can't go deep into the lowest speeds without adding code to for instance actually disable the lcd driver instead of just blanking it Jun 27 23:33:15 Though not on gTA02 Jun 27 23:33:44 (LCD - as it's not conneced there) Jun 27 23:34:07 cesarb: I dohn't suppose you know if the glamo bandwidth is independant of cock rate? Jun 27 23:35:55 so, for gta03, are we looking at HSPA? Jun 27 23:36:11 t: no Jun 27 23:36:31 SpeedEvil: no idea Jun 27 23:36:41 'simply' dropping the glamo, and some other minor stuff like adding camera and changing the case Jun 27 23:36:50 to bad. these days i usually end up using my phone as a "modem" Jun 27 23:37:26 SpeedEvil: yea modem works fine Jun 27 23:37:46 dcordes: You could get GPRS up. And ssh through that Jun 27 23:38:32 SpeedEvil: we've got (virtual, it's just shared ram buffers) character devices for AT, DATA and GPS Jun 27 23:38:42 where data is 3g network conenction Jun 27 23:39:00 the 3G modem presents an AT interface? Jun 27 23:39:05 Or is it horribly more complex? Jun 27 23:39:16 SpeedEvil: no 3g is seperate. it's 3 interfaces Jun 27 23:39:39 dcordes: ah. Jun 27 23:39:44 I think one can assume gprs goes through the AT Jun 27 23:39:52 dcordes: well - do whatever to bring PPP up I mean. Jun 27 23:40:00 but that's helluvan idea Jun 27 23:40:01 dcordes: though od course that may be non-trivial. Jun 27 23:40:20 Or as a stupid work-around, SMS out the last line of the log Jun 27 23:40:26 SpeedEvil: know a well documented list of commands required for manual gprs setup? Jun 27 23:41:41 The wiki has a not very clear walkthrough. Jun 27 23:41:47 That has worked for some people. Jun 27 23:53:21 It eventually worked for me Jun 27 23:53:41 It worked for me after a couple of hours. Jun 27 23:53:54 Then I upgraded my device without backing it up, and I haven't bothered. Jun 27 23:54:43 It took me a couple of weeks :-) Jun 27 23:55:08 I finally searched for info from other people on the GoPhone service & discovered that I had to use a different dialing sequence Jun 28 00:00:05 I need something working to manually talk to the AT device Jun 28 00:00:33 I have cu in my angstrom image but it gives strange premission erros Jun 28 00:01:39 i just use screen now Jun 28 00:01:42 you need the right perms on /dev/whatever Jun 28 00:02:01 i hate cu Jun 28 00:02:14 will try screen Jun 28 00:02:34 balrog-kun: what switches do you need to throw? Jun 28 00:02:48 mickey|away also wrote a special program for that iirc Jun 28 00:02:53 dcordes: none Jun 28 00:03:07 I know I'd need the python stuff Jun 28 00:03:32 i didn't know it was python Jun 28 00:03:34 eww p Jun 28 00:03:36 eww :p Jun 28 00:04:04 maybe I mean a different program Jun 28 00:04:14 There really needs to be an alternative implementation other than python. Jun 28 00:04:22 Especially for air travel. That could be bad. Jun 28 00:05:02 balrog-kun: so how do you send things when the screen openned? Jun 28 00:05:49 i think i typed screen /dev/ttySAC0 and then it was like minicom/picocom/whatevercom Jun 28 00:05:52 when I type things, I see the device receives data (there's a printk that reports the relevant irq) Jun 28 00:05:55 but get no replies Jun 28 00:06:13 is the modem on? Jun 28 00:06:17 Are you sure the modem is on? Jun 28 00:06:22 yep Jun 28 00:06:36 when I only run cat /dev/smd0 I see the signal strength data Jun 28 00:07:15 maybe baud rate... i dunno Jun 28 00:07:16 cat /dev/whateveratdeviceis Jun 28 00:07:19 then ring the phone Jun 28 00:07:24 see if it says 'RING' Jun 28 00:07:27 or something Jun 28 00:07:28 SpeedEvil: I do Jun 28 00:07:32 ring blabla number Jun 28 00:07:45 in gnu screen? Jun 28 00:07:54 ah, no, with car, sorry Jun 28 00:07:55 not in screen, when I cat Jun 28 00:07:57 *cat Jun 28 00:08:02 but I can try with screen hold on Jun 28 00:08:28 just extracted the android rootfs and see what it does to initialize the modem Jun 28 00:09:59 ok don't see the messages in screen Jun 28 00:10:20 guess I really need to set a rate or so Jun 28 00:11:03 I can try cat & echo Jun 28 00:11:15 what AT command prints a lot of data? Jun 28 00:11:29 makes the modem reply a lot of data Jun 28 00:12:08 AT+COPS=? Jun 28 00:12:25 but not very much Jun 28 00:16:12 I did cat /dev/smd0 & echo ´AT+COPS=?´ > /dev/smd0 Jun 28 00:16:34 modem doesn't reply anything directly. just prints the signal level after some time Jun 28 00:16:52 Wonder if it's flow control Jun 28 00:16:57 what hardware is that? Jun 28 00:18:12 msm7200 chipset Jun 28 00:18:35 oh, CDMA? Jun 28 00:18:38 the serial devices are buffers on a shared memory region between modem side and system side of the chip Jun 28 00:18:46 no CDMA is msm7500 Jun 28 00:19:51 i see Jun 28 00:20:16 what's CREG? Jun 28 00:20:27 well, chmod 0777 /dev/whatever and then cu -l /dev/whatever also worked for me sometimes Jun 28 00:20:31 Wh am I registered to I think Jun 28 00:20:35 what operator Jun 28 00:20:46 unsolicited messages regarding registering Jun 28 00:20:55 AT+CREG=0 turns them off iirc Jun 28 00:21:08 I'm browsing in the android rootfs trying to figure what it does to setup communication Jun 28 00:21:19 there's setupmodem.sh Jun 28 00:21:28 you modified it's kernel already? Jun 28 00:21:37 *its Jun 28 00:22:06 you might just as well tell the kernel to dump all the serial traffic somewhere Jun 28 00:22:34 yea otherwise the smem communication wouldn't work. git.android.com is for MSM7500A Jun 28 00:24:06 I will try again with cu now, although I think chmod the device won't help Jun 28 00:24:08 already tried it Jun 28 00:24:56 the problem with cu is it setuid's to nobody or some other user with similar privileges Jun 28 00:27:55 balrog-kun: chmod 0777 /dev/smd0 && cu -l /dev/smd0 Jun 28 00:28:20 cu: creat (/var/lock/TMP000000000c4): Permission denied Jun 28 00:28:33 cu: /dev/smd0: Line in use Jun 28 00:28:50 when I retry, each time the TMP* changes Jun 28 00:29:01 there might have been a switch to not do locking.. Jun 28 00:32:44 balrog-k1n: we had the same conversation and I ended up not finding the switch for not creating lockfiles Jun 28 00:34:21 ok.. i guess strace android to the rescue Jun 28 00:34:46 chown root.root /usr/bin/cu :) Jun 28 00:34:56 it must be doing something to the modem to make it talk right? Jun 28 00:37:16 balrog-k1n: yea that's why I've been looking in the extracted rootfs Jun 28 00:37:39 but I can't find the relevant stuff Jun 28 00:37:47 SpeedEvil: didn't change situation Jun 28 00:38:10 http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/initrd-android that's what I'm making calls with Jun 28 00:39:33 when I last tried manually talking to the modem, the driver was not yet working Jun 28 00:39:56 so actually I never had it working from the console image so android must do something speccial to talk Jun 28 00:40:54 with default freerunner software can you configure wifi by a gui? Jun 28 00:45:16 pjj: Doesn't appear to be the case at the moment. Jun 28 00:54:33 balrog-k1n: I grepped the rootfs for the device node. I can only see two textfiles being written. one contains AT+HTC_DUN=0 the other one ATDT#777. Everything else is paramters being passed to binary Jun 28 00:58:37 dcordes: #777 is what they use for the Bell CDMA data network here in Canada. Jun 28 00:59:30 dcordes: i guess it doesn't have to be something written to that port, it can be a gpio flipped through a /sys node like on the neo or something else Jun 28 00:59:38 bricode: the rootfs where those commands are from is actually for a cdma device. still I can make calls Jun 28 01:00:21 bricode: the device node receives the commands that's for sure. I see the irq when I write Jun 28 01:00:42 dcordes: is it possible that it's just an issue with screen and picocom/minicom would work? Jun 28 01:00:50 might be Jun 28 01:01:04 I had a rootfs with minicom before but can't recall where I got minicon Jun 28 01:01:29 that cat&echo thing is vague Jun 28 01:04:58 balrog-k1n: is there something present in OE other than cu? Jun 28 01:06:01 dcordes: i don't know Jun 28 01:06:06 dcordes: do you have setserial? Jun 28 01:06:26 not in this image, no Jun 28 01:09:03 hm picocom doesn't compile for arm Jun 28 01:10:22 I wonder why cu stopped working. I had a different angstrom rootfs where it worked well Jun 28 01:15:40 dcordes: it builds for me Jun 28 01:18:14 balrog-k1n: can you put it somewhere so I can get it? Jun 28 01:18:42 dcordes: it's dynamically linked Jun 28 01:32:12 dcordes, what are you talking about? Jun 28 01:32:54 Does anyone have experience with the fso/Milestone 1 image? Jun 28 01:32:56 blist Jun 28 01:33:05 er, wrong window :-) Jun 28 01:34:37 Dave: about a program to communicate with character device Jun 28 01:35:54 abraxa__: Do you work on the fso? Jun 28 01:37:07 I tried in on machine htckaiser but X doesn't start Jun 28 01:39:32 balrog-k1n: can you give me your picocom binary? Jun 28 01:39:52 for dcordes: http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/picocom Jun 28 01:41:04 it's arm5 i think Jun 28 01:41:12 lemme try to make a static one Jun 28 01:42:45 thanks a lot Jun 28 01:43:02 dcordes: http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/picocom-static Jun 28 01:43:25 where's the difference between the two? Jun 28 01:44:09 22KB vs 336KB (includes libc and stuff) Jun 28 01:44:53 they are untested, i only know they compiled with 2 warning from gcc Jun 28 01:45:00 warnings Jun 28 01:45:09 I'll try the static one first then Jun 28 01:45:16 or just put them both in the rootfs Jun 28 01:45:32 jvm please. Jun 28 01:47:25 -_- Jun 28 01:49:46 Pretty much! Jun 28 02:31:32 ~_~ Jun 28 02:31:33 STOP DOING THAT! Jun 28 02:33:17 Dave: want java? Jun 28 02:33:40 Yes please. Jun 28 02:34:05 Though I'd never say that anywhere else, without hauling a hefty guilty conscience around afterward :p Jun 28 02:35:14 you mean because here, everybody knows java is the devil? Jun 28 02:36:12 No, because I've never touched the stuff, and never will, but I have to get a jvm working on the gta02 :P Jun 28 02:36:19 oh and yeah, blasphemy, yadda yadda Jun 28 02:36:50 Last I checked, cacao was out of date... or something else suspicious. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 28 02:59:57 2008