**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 28 02:59:57 2008
Jun 28 03:36:43 <wurp2> ~_~
Jun 28 03:36:44 <apt> STOP DOING THAT!
Jun 28 03:36:59 <wurp2> ~fist
Jun 28 03:42:54 <Dave> moo
Jun 28 03:43:28 <zash> i agree
Jun 28 03:51:19 <Railer> hey
Jun 28 03:52:24 <Railer> where are the Canadian bitaches!
Jun 28 03:52:45 <doc|home> good thing I'm Irish, isn't it? :D
Jun 28 03:52:52 <doc|home> Railer: any idea on delivery costs?
Jun 28 03:52:56 <Railer> yes
Jun 28 03:52:57 <doc|home> and thanks for that
Jun 28 03:52:59 <doc|home> excellent
Jun 28 03:53:48 <Railer> but the info is for edmonton
Jun 28 03:53:59 <Railer> but minor
Jun 28 03:54:59 <Railer> ok
Jun 28 03:55:08 <doc|home> that's ok, shouldn't make a huge difference
Jun 28 03:55:18 <Railer> and I'll put it up on the wiki later tonight as well
Jun 28 03:56:05 <Railer> ok good news NO CUSTOMS! cellphone are custom free where ever they come from
Jun 28 03:56:30 <doc|home> yeah, I saw that earlier :)
Jun 28 03:56:32 <Railer> I should say no duties, you still need to pay a broker
Jun 28 03:56:40 <doc|home> that's $8
Jun 28 03:56:43 <doc|home> afaik
Jun 28 03:56:52 <Railer> ?
Jun 28 03:56:55 <Railer> what?
Jun 28 03:57:08 <doc|home> ups will do brokerage and afaik they charge $8 for the "privilege"
Jun 28 03:57:26 <doc|home> or at least that's fedex's rate I think
Jun 28 03:58:21 <Railer> no
Jun 28 03:58:38 <Railer> 8 buck for brokering? right
Jun 28 03:59:46 <Railer> UPS shipping insurance $4000 US, 3KG, Fremont to Edmonton standard $55.69
Jun 28 04:00:34 <Railer> Broker/COD charge /Bonding Fee ANOTHER 81.55
Jun 28 04:01:33 <doc|home> what? that's not right
Jun 28 04:01:38 <doc|home> wait, COD demand?
Jun 28 04:01:43 <doc|home> you're not paying COD
Jun 28 04:01:59 <Railer> thats what the UPS guy told me
Jun 28 04:02:11 <doc|home> what exactly is that for?
Jun 28 04:02:31 <Railer> but I'm going to call FedEx monday, and I can do my own brokering
Jun 28 04:03:12 <doc|home> Railer: how do you do that?
Jun 28 04:04:52 <Railer> well I've done it with FEdEX they have sort of duty free zones at airports, the shipment comes in you go to pick it up, fill out the paperwork, pay the gst and they give you the goods
Jun 28 04:06:26 <Railer> you need to know invoice, which is on the box or faxed to you, place on manufacture, and type of thing, revenue canada number if you have one
Jun 28 04:06:44 <doc|home> and if you don't?
Jun 28 04:07:01 <Railer> don't what?
Jun 28 04:08:48 <Railer> if fedex is open in tommorow I'll get the how to on how to broker it yourself
Jun 28 04:10:03 <Railer> little rusty havn't done it in a while but it's not too hard
Jun 28 04:11:07 <Railer> but trust me brokering is like $50 a shot to use a broker min
Jun 28 04:11:18 <doc|home> Railer: if you don't have a revenue canada number?
Jun 28 04:11:37 <Railer> I think you can use SIN
Jun 28 04:12:04 <doc|home> great, so the fuckers think I'm making money off this :/
Jun 28 04:17:59 <Dave> What's up, Doc?
Jun 28 04:18:05 <Railer> how are you going to make money?
Jun 28 04:18:13 <Dave> Railer: HUMILIATION!
Jun 28 04:18:40 <Railer> well then pay a broker
Jun 28 04:20:44 <Railer> dave ?
Jun 28 04:21:14 <Railer> you just need id for the brokerage
Jun 28 04:21:50 <doc|home> Railer: I'm not, but they might think I will and I don't need that crap :)
Jun 28 04:22:12 <Railer> here doc: http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html
Jun 28 04:23:28 <doc|home> Railer: fuckers
Jun 28 04:23:30 <Railer> $8 per person for broker, UPS will do it all
Jun 28 04:23:32 <doc|home> ok, going to do it myself
Jun 28 04:23:41 <doc|home> Railer: let me know how you do that
Jun 28 04:23:49 <Railer> I'll post the whole thing later
Jun 28 04:24:02 <Railer> I just cant rememebr the from
Jun 28 04:24:05 <Railer> form
Jun 28 04:24:05 <doc|home> will contact someone who might know more
Jun 28 04:24:15 <Railer> ya
Jun 28 04:25:34 <Railer> you can get everything setup before hand and fax everything to UPS of fedex when they call
Jun 28 04:26:18 <Railer> of = or
Jun 28 04:26:49 <doc|home> oh, cool
Jun 28 04:26:55 <doc|home> let me know what you find
Jun 28 04:27:45 <Railer> I've done it before lots, but not in the last few years
Jun 28 04:28:10 <doc|home> Railer: are we going to have bond fees too?
Jun 28 04:28:30 <Railer> if you broker your self?
Jun 28 04:28:48 <Infinyte> Arrr..
Jun 28 04:28:58 <Infinyte> There don't seem to be any good GSM providers around here. :<
Jun 28 04:29:36 <Railer> if you broker and pay yourself no, but if you do through UPs then yes
Jun 28 04:31:14 <Railer> what the hell did dave mean " Railer: HUMILIATION!"
Jun 28 04:31:15 <Railer> ?
Jun 28 04:32:16 <Railer> dave, dave dave dave de=ave dave dave
Jun 28 04:32:20 <Railer> dave, dave dave dave de=ave dave dave
Jun 28 04:42:22 <doc|home> Railer: that sucks, ok, doing this myself
Jun 28 04:42:59 <Railer> fedex is fast and better for do it your self
Jun 28 04:43:17 <Railer> also more expensive, but it's air
Jun 28 04:47:48 <doc|home> Railer: ok, I've emailed this person I know who I think might have done it in the past, will let you know
Jun 28 04:47:55 <doc|home> Railer: thanks again
Jun 28 04:48:02 <Railer> ok
Jun 28 04:53:47 <Dave> Railer: WHAT?
Jun 28 04:56:51 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9c61c4f4a237 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/modems/ (5 files in 2 dirs): ophoned: establish ppp context with modem specific ppp options, correctly catch subprocess exit
Jun 28 05:02:10 <Railer> what the hell did " Railer: HUMILIATION!" mean?
Jun 28 05:04:49 <Dave> It was stated a la Q3A.
Jun 28 05:05:21 <Railer> ah
Jun 28 05:05:27 <Dave> :]
Jun 28 05:05:27 <Railer> I dont play anymore
Jun 28 05:05:32 <Dave> Hah!
Jun 28 05:05:37 <Dave> Who does? :p
Jun 28 05:05:40 <donomo> QUAD DAMAGE
Jun 28 05:05:42 <Dave> (Honestly)
Jun 28 05:05:53 <Dave> donomo, my GTA02 now says that upon startup :)
Jun 28 05:06:02 <Dave> well, one of them, anyway, hehe
Jun 28 05:06:12 <donomo> haha. openarena.ws FTW
Jun 28 05:06:17 <Railer> nice
Jun 28 05:06:21 <Dave> ;D
Jun 28 05:06:32 <Dave> ooh nice
Jun 28 05:07:25 <Railer> I got old - high blood pressure - passed out during intense matches
Jun 28 05:07:58 <Dave> :o
Jun 28 05:08:05 <Dave> Aww
Jun 28 05:08:14 <Railer> kind of funny
Jun 28 05:08:17 <Dave> It is certainly not a game for the weak.
Jun 28 05:08:32 <Railer> play wii now
Jun 28 05:08:34 <Dave> or weak-hearted I should say
Jun 28 05:08:45 <Dave> heh
Jun 28 05:08:51 <Dave> Yeah, that's probably more up your alley? :p
Jun 28 05:09:33 <Dave> for six and sixty year olds
Jun 28 05:09:45 <Railer> want to write some code for freerunner now, 
Jun 28 05:10:12 <Railer> is it going to have a JRE?
Jun 28 05:11:56 <Dave> I'm trying to setup a jvm now :]
Jun 28 05:13:02 <Railer> no what?
Jun 28 05:13:11 <Railer> on what
Jun 28 05:13:13 <Railer> ?
Jun 28 05:13:42 <Railer> I'm teaching Java enterprise this term :P
Jun 28 05:14:57 <zash> Enterprise Grade Applications!!!
Jun 28 05:15:02 <Dave> Oh :P
Jun 28 05:15:06 <zash> aka ugly hacks
Jun 28 05:15:14 <Dave> haha
Jun 28 05:18:17 <zash> its sad
Jun 28 05:19:22 * zash is to mutch perfectionist for Enterprise Grade Application Development (!!!1)
Jun 28 05:20:43 <Dave> EGAD!
Jun 28 05:22:36 <Sonicadvance1> Military grade?
Jun 28 05:23:23 <Railer>  hibernation/spring/struts boring stuff
Jun 28 05:23:29 <Railer> JSF
Jun 28 05:24:52 <Railer> so if I guy just wants to make games for the FR, is there a simple SDK that runs on windows a guy can use or no chance
Jun 28 05:26:12 <mickeyl> try asking for a vmware image on the -devel list, there should be someone who did that
Jun 28 05:26:25 <Dave> Yes
Jun 28 05:26:35 <Dave> the other emulations are quite slow.
Jun 28 05:26:40 <Dave> in comparison
Jun 28 05:26:58 <Railer> there's a vmware? sweet
Jun 28 05:27:14 <Railer> i'll go look
Jun 28 05:29:44 <Railer> do you have a link to the image, I couldn't find it
Jun 28 05:30:01 <Dave> oh good, I'll sic you on the cacao people, Railer :)
Jun 28 05:33:21 <Railer> no more eclipse! even on cacao!
Jun 28 05:34:33 <Dave> :D
Jun 28 05:34:47 <Railer> I want a vmware FR appliance!
Jun 28 05:34:50 <Dave> now give me a functional jvm! :]
Jun 28 05:36:02 <Railer> appliance! I asked first
Jun 28 05:37:30 <Dave> :p
Jun 28 05:37:42 <wurp2> Dave: Does jalima not work?
Jun 28 05:38:13 <wurp2> s/ima/imo/
Jun 28 05:52:40 <Dave> wurp, no, it did not.
Jun 28 05:56:46 <Dave> Well, one issue is that repo version of cacao appears to still be old and crusty.
Jun 28 06:14:21 <Zoup> hi :) i have few question on this phones 
Jun 28 06:14:34 <Zoup> is this possible to rebuild the kernel ?
Jun 28 06:14:42 <Zoup> what is Distributions used on phones ? 
Jun 28 06:19:01 <Zoup> Is this possible to use this phones with any provider ? are these 'locked' ? 
Jun 28 06:19:20 <josch> locked?
Jun 28 06:19:21 <josch> yeah
Jun 28 06:19:29 <josch> it even has some palladium chip
Jun 28 06:19:45 <josch> did i tell you about the proprietary firmware images?
Jun 28 06:19:56 <Zoup> josch: hehe , i mean in case to make it working on any provider , do you need any unlocking mechanism ?
Jun 28 06:20:06 <josch> this phone
Jun 28 06:20:07 <josch> is
Jun 28 06:20:08 <josch> OPEN
Jun 28 06:20:16 <Zoup> josch: ok pal :) got it :) 
Jun 28 06:20:26 <josch> there are NO restrictions on your freedom how you use it
Jun 28 06:20:28 <Zoup> josch: can you please answer my other questions or refer some docs ?
Jun 28 06:20:34 <Zoup> josch: OK! :)
Jun 28 06:20:36 <josch> only the limitations of the hardware in speed etc.
Jun 28 06:20:44 <josch> it is not locked
Jun 28 06:20:50 <josch> distribution is openmoko
Jun 28 06:21:00 <Zoup> josch: DEB or PRM packages ?
Jun 28 06:21:09 <josch> you can rebuild evry line of code
Jun 28 06:21:15 <josch> opkg
Jun 28 06:21:31 <josch> this is like dpkg only for embedded devices
Jun 28 06:21:54 <Zoup> josch: aaha , got it , so standard debian packages ( arm arch ) will work on this or not ?
Jun 28 06:22:25 <josch> well... if you use debian on your phone, of course you can use dpkgs
Jun 28 06:23:06 <Zoup> josch: stupid question > can is entirely remove this openmoko distro and install my own ?
Jun 28 06:23:16 <josch> this phone
Jun 28 06:23:17 <josch> is
Jun 28 06:23:25 <josch> well... i think you got that ^^
Jun 28 06:23:39 <josch> even now there are several distros out there
Jun 28 06:23:39 <Zoup> josch: So this is an standard platform 
Jun 28 06:23:43 <Zoup> GREAT!
Jun 28 06:23:48 <Zoup> this is JUST GREAT!
Jun 28 06:24:00 <josch> there are the many versions of the openmoko OS
Jun 28 06:24:04 <josch> like 2007.1
Jun 28 06:24:06 <josch> 2007.2
Jun 28 06:24:07 <josch> ASU
Jun 28 06:24:15 <josch> and now the openmoko framework
Jun 28 06:24:19 <kdean06> http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jun 28 06:24:22 <josch> then there are unofficial firmwares
Jun 28 06:24:34 <josch> like the underground zad framework
Jun 28 06:24:43 <josch> or debian armel
Jun 28 06:24:47 <Zoup> very interesting , any idea where store will be open ?
Jun 28 06:24:54 <josch> i even buld gentoo for it
Jun 28 06:24:56 <Zoup> *when
Jun 28 06:25:03 <josch> in a week or so
Jun 28 06:25:33 <josch> Zoup, where are you from?
Jun 28 06:25:46 <Zoup> josch: im from iran :) 
Jun 28 06:25:52 <josch> oh!
Jun 28 06:26:10 <josch> i do not know if there are any third party resellers for you ^^
Jun 28 06:26:35 <Zoup> josch: well , situation sucks here 
Jun 28 06:26:59 <josch> you mean the political situation?
Jun 28 06:27:52 <Zoup> josch: all aspects of that :)
Jun 28 06:28:15 <Zoup> josch: are you from openmoko company ? is these possibe to be reseller in iran ?
Jun 28 06:29:17 <josch> no, i'm not affiliated with openmoko inc. - just a random hacker :P
Jun 28 06:31:37 <Zoup> josch: got it! thanks , ill ask question when i bought this thing :)
Jun 28 06:31:58 <josch> great
Jun 28 07:36:36 <goodwill|yawn> xephyr time
Jun 28 07:53:08 <bagpuss_thecat> oooh, Nokia to buy the rest of Symbian, and then open source it
Jun 28 07:55:32 <cb22[eee]> thats cool, but what exactly does it mean for me?
Jun 28 07:55:44 * zash still finds it weird that they bought Trolltech
Jun 28 07:55:57 <cb22[eee]> like, will i be able to cd /usr/src/symbian; make; make DESTDIR=/phone install
Jun 28 07:56:49 * cb22[eee] needs a freerunner
Jun 28 07:57:30 <ljp> it only means something if you have open hardware to put it on
Jun 28 08:02:59 <faern> I have downloaded the makefile and maked qemu. but it only downloads the qtopia image. how can I get om?
Jun 28 08:03:38 <zash> you mean the old gtk-based om
Jun 28 08:03:51 <faern> old? is it replaced :/
Jun 28 08:04:02 <faern> the qtopia image I got was ugly and not working at all
Jun 28 08:04:03 <malik1972> faern: no problem, look at the manuell installation of qemu
Jun 28 08:04:26 <zash> faern: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jun 28 08:04:47 <faern> *read*
Jun 28 08:05:21 <malik1972> faern: and flash the images you want 
Jun 28 08:05:44 <faern> malik1972: ok. thanks
Jun 28 08:06:31 <malik1972> faern: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup
Jun 28 08:07:30 <faern> So which stack is the freerunner shipped with?
Jun 28 08:07:34 <malik1972> faern: choose gta01 images + corresponding kernel, a lot of images out there, asu, fso, underground, scaredy cats, etc
Jun 28 08:08:18 <malik1972> faern: "Right now, Openmoko’s priority is getting the ASU to a point where it is stable and satisfies the every-day use with the FreeRunner product."
Jun 28 08:09:23 <zash> faern: freerunner is shipped with a gtk-image
Jun 28 08:09:55 <faern> nice. cause that one looked sweet and I havent tr
Jun 28 08:10:03 <faern> ...tried the other ones yet
Jun 28 08:14:17 <goodwill|blink> malik1972: so last time I tried to make an image of my own that took about 6 hours, because it compiled every package in the devel tree (using mokomakefile). Any recent premade images out there, besides the default bare one?
Jun 28 08:15:16 <malik1972> goodwill|blink: have a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories
Jun 28 08:17:54 <goodwill> malik1972: oooh, nice...thank you
Jun 28 09:00:04 <goodwill> hmmm, can not burn the latest asu onto the qemu
Jun 28 09:00:18 <goodwill> qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x00000008
Jun 28 09:04:19 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r923b529f883f 10/odeviced/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Start work on input plugin
Jun 28 09:14:12 <Blastur> which resellers are currently shipping the freerunner within europe?
Jun 28 09:14:43 <zlfita> 'm trying to register an order with pulster
Jun 28 09:15:24 <zash> Blastur: they are listed on openmoko.com -> store somewhere
Jun 28 09:15:24 <zlfita> also french and british resellers shipped their first batch but i forgot their names
Jun 28 09:15:39 <Blastur> thanks
Jun 28 09:15:47 <zash> http://openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html
Jun 28 09:15:49 <zash> there
Jun 28 09:17:53 <josch> Blastur, also consider TRIsoft - they partnered with golden delicious compuers
Jun 28 09:19:09 <Zoup> arrr ... is this possible to charge freerunner using usb ? 
Jun 28 09:19:26 <zash> err ... yes
Jun 28 09:21:17 <zash> you charge it trough the usb port
Jun 28 09:22:02 <Zoup> Thanks! :) what do these guys mean that its host usb ? it means that it can charge my camera ( for example! ) 
Jun 28 09:22:17 <zash> you can connect stuff to it
Jun 28 09:22:35 <zash> probably not very wise to charge stuff from it thou
Jun 28 09:23:18 <Zoup> zash: battery sacrifice , will that work with usb flash disks ? 
Jun 28 09:23:36 <zash> Zoup: should do
Jun 28 09:23:51 <Zoup> zash: thanks!
Jun 28 09:24:29 <zash> you will need a converter cable
Jun 28 09:24:44 <zash> miniUSB - USB A female
Jun 28 09:24:53 <Zoup> zash: aaha ... 
Jun 28 09:26:45 <zash> the wiki says freerunner can supply 500mA, so any usb-thing should work
Jun 28 09:27:04 <zash> but of course, the battery will suffer
Jun 28 09:27:57 <zash> or you can build a 3-way cable to power both the neo and usb-device
Jun 28 09:30:03 <Zoup> zash: wont that be dangerous ?
Jun 28 09:30:13 <Zoup> zash: short circut , etc ? :)) 
Jun 28 09:52:59 <Blastur> oh.. blizzard is doing diablo 3
Jun 28 09:54:52 <faern> will they port it to the neo? :D
Jun 28 10:05:35 <willem> Hi, I just used the makefile to create a qemu image and the image runs, but none of the buttons to anythin
Jun 28 10:05:38 <willem> +g
Jun 28 10:10:14 <Sup3rkiddo> hi anyone know the format in which the time in wakelarm present in /sys/class/rtc/rtcx/wakealarm is?
Jun 28 10:11:49 <Sup3rkiddo> never mind, got it
Jun 28 10:24:44 <willem> I have found how to get to some programs, however with notes, you I can only use that predictive keyboard, which doesn't allow me to use backspace or delete or any non alpha characters...
Jun 28 10:25:58 <giantbicycle> 高雄有一直下雨嗎
Jun 28 10:29:12 <Blastur> faern: it will run on freerunner out of the box, of course
Jun 28 10:30:07 <faern> Blastur: nice. hope the gprs link kan handle it in multiplayer
Jun 28 10:30:21 <faern> s/kan/can
Jun 28 10:40:31 <TAsn> is there a working browser available?
Jun 28 10:41:50 <Zoup> TAsn: is there an norworking one ? 
Jun 28 10:43:03 <TAsn> im not familiar with the software exists yet. Im just wondering whether the is a one that works, without knowing whether there is one at alll.
Jun 28 10:43:06 <TAsn> all*
Jun 28 11:33:52 <Sup3rkiddo> anyone know if RTC_WKALM_RD ioctl call is possible?
Jun 28 11:34:23 <Sup3rkiddo> in OM kernel that is
Jun 28 12:09:13 <noon> hello
Jun 28 12:10:31 <noon> is it posible to read/write multipart sms with the current libgsmd implementation?
Jun 28 12:12:00 <balrog-k1n> noon: yes... as multiple messages
Jun 28 12:13:34 <noon> balrog-k1n: okey. my questions was not precise enough... 
Jun 28 12:13:44 <Tanuva> hmm... I'm trying to build the sample app from the Toolchain wiki page, but /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env seems to fail to set any env variables when its being executed...
Jun 28 12:13:53 <Tanuva> may I fix this somehow?
Jun 28 12:14:22 <noon> does the libgsmd provide enough information that i can merge multipart sms?
Jun 28 12:14:31 <LionKMP> . setup-env ? 
Jun 28 12:14:58 <LionKMP> "." is the "source in" comand.
Jun 28 12:15:17 <Tanuva> aaah.. so this dot really IS important
Jun 28 12:15:37 <LionKMP> hehe, yes, otherwise it starts a new bash, sets vars and quits (losing vars)
Jun 28 12:15:37 <Tanuva> no wonder it wont work :)
Jun 28 12:17:11 <balrog-k1n> noon: probably nope
Jun 28 12:17:56 <Tanuva> damn. it still cant find libmokoui2, although I got it from the ubuntu repos and installed it.. (debian sid/sidux here)
Jun 28 12:18:30 <noon> balrog-k1n: thx. 
Jun 28 12:30:31 <Tanuva> arrr... where does pkg-config expect libmokoui2 to be? I have the libs in /usr/lib and also in /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib...
Jun 28 12:33:20 <LionKMP> Tanuva: did you run the commands as on : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain  ?
Jun 28 12:33:50 <Tanuva> yes
Jun 28 12:33:51 <LionKMP> I don't really know Moko, but this sample app will build arm binary, so /usr/lib does't help regarding libs.
Jun 28 12:34:27 <Tanuva> libmokoui2 installs itself there, I dont really know why I should need it because I would want to use Qt..
Jun 28 12:34:39 <Tanuva> maybe just remove it from the dependencies?
Jun 28 12:40:55 <LionKMP> hm, it does not build for me either. I think it worked when I first tried. :-p
Jun 28 13:43:48 <opendeep> When creating a package ,  I get this error "No package 'libmokoui2' found"
Jun 28 14:02:13 <giantbicycle> c;ear
Jun 28 14:05:56 * SpeedEvil shocks #openmoko with 450J.
Jun 28 14:08:50 <opendeep> giantbicycle: I had a packaging error, the same error came to somebody , he fixed that by
Jun 28 14:09:05 <opendeep> using the script /usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup
Jun 28 14:10:54 <opendeep> How we use that script ? 
Jun 28 14:10:58 <Dave> How are you gentlemen?
Jun 28 14:13:10 <LionKMP> hi, is the 10pack discount pack coming from existing retailers or the soon-coming online shop only? We have 30 guys signed up here :)
Jun 28 14:14:09 <swc|666> LionKMP: their sold out already :/
Jun 28 14:14:17 <swc|666> j/k
Jun 28 14:14:35 <LionKMP> :-p
Jun 28 14:15:15 <abraxa_> LionKMP: That's an Openmoko, Inc. discount, I'm not aware of any retailer offering it
Jun 28 14:15:17 <swc|666> my group is an odd bunch of paranoid freaks that trusts noone
Jun 28 14:15:48 <LionKMP> swc|666: hehe, we didn't discuss details yet, so might be same here :)
Jun 28 14:16:09 <swc|666> LionKMP: yep...especially for 30 :o
Jun 28 14:16:54 <LionKMP> abraxa_: hm.. ok, I see. Any ideas in which country EU distribution will be based? (We could go there to pick up if near.)
Jun 28 14:17:58 <abraxa_> LionKMP: There's no central hub, the distributors get theirs from OM
Jun 28 14:18:23 <abraxa_> LionKMP: Maybe you can pick them up from the distributors - an (incomplete) list is on openmoko.com
Jun 28 14:18:59 <LionKMP> abraxa_: you said the 10packs are NOT coming from distributors. I am asking about 10packs. (sorry if I misunderstand something)
Jun 28 14:21:15 <abraxa_> LionKMP: Openmoko, Inc. may deliver to Europe by mail, however they won't have a distribution center there
Jun 28 14:21:34 <abraxa_> So picking up a 10 pack will cost you a plane ticket to Asia, if even possible :)
Jun 28 14:21:39 <LionKMP> :D
Jun 28 14:21:56 <LionKMP> well, ok. I saw Prague mentioned somewhere earlier. 
Jun 28 14:22:07 <abraxa_> So best bet is to ask one of the distributors if they offer the 10 pack discount as well
Jun 28 14:22:22 <LionKMP> ok, thanks, did already, but it's saturday. 
Jun 28 14:22:34 <Dave> hah!
Jun 28 14:24:47 <LionKMP> if we can order from within the EU we don't need to pay toll. 
Jun 28 14:25:00 * mjr put in a group order at pulster (who've btw apparently sold out their first batch already); they didn't offer further discount but did throw in shipping for me
Jun 28 14:25:33 <LionKMP> mjr: within Germany?
Jun 28 14:25:37 <mjr> yes
Jun 28 14:26:11 <LionKMP> did you order the headset and pouche separately? (on ML some wrote they don't include it)
Jun 28 14:26:31 <mjr> just whatever's in the base package
Jun 28 14:27:49 <LionKMP> ok, I'll see what they can offer to .hu if anything :)
Jun 28 14:28:17 <mjr> as said, with them you're probably going to have to wait for their second shipment though
Jun 28 14:29:10 <LionKMP> ah, yes, thank you. Hehe, I wonder how much they sold.
Jun 28 14:48:12 <Tanuva> I've just downloaded the actual prebuilt images (make download-images && make run-qemu) and the "neo"/qemu wont seem to do anything. the four buttons on the "welcome screen" flash once I click them, but nothing happens. anything to do about it except waiting for the next build?
Jun 28 14:52:35 <balrog-k1n> hmmm may be a touchscreen issue
Jun 28 14:52:44 <balrog-k1n> Tanuva: try older images
Jun 28 14:53:26 <malik1972> tanuva: start from the beginning
Jun 28 14:53:55 <malik1972> tanuva: i had the same issue
Jun 28 14:54:01 <Tanuva> Snapshot-20080625-om-gta01 is what I have...
Jun 28 14:54:06 <Tanuva> okay, gonna try that
Jun 28 14:54:37 <malik1972> tanuva: or try fso 
Jun 28 14:54:52 <LionKMP> hehe, I just experienced the same problem
Jun 28 14:54:56 <Tanuva> how/where do I fetch that?
Jun 28 14:55:01 <chillywilly> hello moko
Jun 28 14:55:07 * Tanuva hasnt really got into om yet...
Jun 28 14:57:24 <Dave> hey chilly
Jun 28 14:58:58 <malik1972> http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/
Jun 28 14:59:04 <Tanuva> btw, why do the ringtones/sounds in general exist in 3 (?) different formats eg. wav,ogg,rg?
Jun 28 14:59:26 <Tanuva> malik1972: thanks :)
Jun 28 15:00:19 <TAsn> how much time is make qemu supposed to take?
Jun 28 15:00:50 <Dave> A long time :)
Jun 28 15:00:58 <Dave> It's quite slow, in my experience.
Jun 28 15:01:12 <TAsn> matter of hours, minutes or days?
Jun 28 15:01:13 <TAsn> ;)
Jun 28 15:01:14 <Tanuva> I'd say about an hour, but I may be wrong
Jun 28 15:01:19 <Dave> no
Jun 28 15:01:22 <Dave> minutes
Jun 28 15:01:26 <Dave> 5 or so maybe
Jun 28 15:01:39 <Dave> or less depending on your system, but it's still very slow.
Jun 28 15:01:41 <TAsn> not that bad then :)
Jun 28 15:01:45 <Dave> The phone is significantly quicker :P
Jun 28 15:01:51 <TAsn> hehe :)
Jun 28 15:01:52 <Tanuva> ah... the d/ls where terribly slow this morning, now I'm getting >300kbps
Jun 28 15:02:00 <Dave> aha :P
Jun 28 15:02:26 <Dave> So that was before it even booted :P
Jun 28 15:02:31 <TAsn> btw, run-qemu runs the first neo-1973 software?
Jun 28 15:02:35 <Dave> I was primarily referring to the booting process.
Jun 28 15:02:39 <ramaya> has anyone freerunner ?
Jun 28 15:02:44 <Dave> Ramaya, yes.
Jun 28 15:02:48 <Tanuva> Dave: oh :x
Jun 28 15:03:05 <ramaya> Dave: and what's your opinion ?
Jun 28 15:03:10 <Dave> It's fine.
Jun 28 15:03:21 <Dave> There is almost no software support for anything yet.
Jun 28 15:03:26 <Dave> and that which exists blows.
Jun 28 15:03:50 <Dave> but hey, it's all in the works :)
Jun 28 15:04:00 <Dave> It's fun to play with, admittedly, if you can get things to work yourself.
Jun 28 15:04:02 <ramaya> any problem ?
Jun 28 15:04:14 <Dave> Many minor ones -- hey, it's open source :P
Jun 28 15:04:18 <faern> Dave: what image do you run? asu/fso?
Jun 28 15:04:28 <ramaya> do u have problems with the basic things such as calling ?
Jun 28 15:04:28 <Dave> faern, hmm?
Jun 28 15:04:38 <Dave> ramaya, oh, actually no, that works fine :P
Jun 28 15:04:39 <Tanuva> oh I love these boots on the boot screen... :D
Jun 28 15:04:50 <Dave> Uggh
Jun 28 15:04:56 <Dave> That was such a terrible image/pun.
Jun 28 15:05:02 <Dave> I'm glad you're finally there, Tanuva :p
Jun 28 15:05:14 <ramaya> Dave: the performance is good? is it fast ? the browser etc ..
Jun 28 15:05:20 <Dave> Fast? No.
Jun 28 15:05:21 <Tanuva> Dave: I've been there before, the critical point is to come yet
Jun 28 15:05:40 <Tanuva> (strange grammar, was that sentence understandable? :D)
Jun 28 15:05:42 <Dave> It seems like it has distinctive performance issues, but this is in part due to crappily coded software.
Jun 28 15:05:56 <Dave> As in, you have default daemons running all the time which whore cpu and shouldn't be :)
Jun 28 15:06:11 <Dave> Plus, installing too much on it easily saturates it.
Jun 28 15:06:18 <Dave> Though it runs, it'll just respond a tad bit slower.
Jun 28 15:06:27 <Dave> (many apps reniced to -11 etc)
Jun 28 15:06:45 <Dave> Overall it's nice though :)
Jun 28 15:07:02 <Dave> Hopefully the software will exist/catch up within two months or so time.
Jun 28 15:07:24 <TAsn> Dave, what about battery time?
Jun 28 15:07:31 <Dave> It's alright.
Jun 28 15:07:51 <igor321> Dave: you're running ASU?
Jun 28 15:07:52 <Dave> I bet that is one aspect which will dramatically improve over time
Jun 28 15:07:57 <TAsn> which results to how many hours of call and how many of standby?
Jun 28 15:08:40 <linuxxr> once we get out freerunners   how will the updates to the os get to us?
Jun 28 15:08:49 <ramaya> so everything is a matter of sotfware ? the hardware is ok eh ?
Jun 28 15:09:03 <linuxxr> automatically?
Jun 28 15:09:08 <TAsn> linuxxr, i guess you will do ipkg update when near wifi...
Jun 28 15:09:14 <linuxxr> ok
Jun 28 15:09:22 <Dave> oh, yes, ASO I guess
Jun 28 15:09:31 <TAsn> or upgrade, not sure about the syntax :)
Jun 28 15:09:36 <Dave> oh yeah, the wiki antenna really blows in it :)
Jun 28 15:09:41 <Dave> Don't say I didn't warn you ;)
Jun 28 15:09:45 <TAsn> huh?
Jun 28 15:10:00 <Dave> I've already sought out to attach a usb dongle or external antenna :P
Jun 28 15:10:05 <Dave> But depends on what you're doing.
Jun 28 15:10:07 <linuxxr> y thats how slackpkg works to
Jun 28 15:10:12 <ramaya> Dave: do u watch videos ?
Jun 28 15:10:17 <Dave> What do you mean?
Jun 28 15:10:29 <Dave> ramaya, the hardware is great.
Jun 28 15:10:46 <Dave> Except admittedly the antenna on the wifi seems to be rather weak (which is completely understandable)
Jun 28 15:11:07 <ramaya> u mean you cannot connect ?
Jun 28 15:11:17 <TAsn> Dave, weak means what?
Jun 28 15:11:20 <Dave> No, I mean it is very low in strength.
Jun 28 15:11:21 <TAsn> what distance?
Jun 28 15:11:31 <Dave> Not strong enough to grab good sig str
Jun 28 15:11:36 <Dave> it's weak db g
Jun 28 15:11:49 <Dave> Dude, you figure it's what, like 2" at most?
Jun 28 15:11:59 <LionKMP> Tanuva: did that image work better?
Jun 28 15:12:03 <ramaya> and why it's understandable ?
Jun 28 15:12:06 <Dave> I don't even care enough to check out the internal schematics to investigate further.
Jun 28 15:12:11 <Dave> Ramaya read what I just said.
Jun 28 15:12:30 <TAsn> compiling the neo image :)
Jun 28 15:12:45 <TAsn> btw, how do i change to a freerunner\qtopia image
Jun 28 15:12:50 <TAsn> in qemu...
Jun 28 15:12:52 <Dave> It's small, and not very powerful, perhaps this will be improved in the past, then again wifi as a whole is improving as well, and may saturate the airwaves soon enough such.
Jun 28 15:12:57 <LionKMP> aww, what image? make openmoko-devel-image? 
Jun 28 15:13:02 <Dave> yes
Jun 28 15:13:13 <Dave> The qtopia image blew.
Jun 28 15:13:20 <Tanuva> LionKMP: its the same as before... If I can figure out how to flash arbitrary images into my qemu-neo, I could try fso/asu...
Jun 28 15:13:21 <LionKMP> TAsn: make download-images; make qemu-flash-official
Jun 28 15:13:26 <TAsn> LionKMP, won't making it take forever?
Jun 28 15:13:29 <TAsn> LionKMP, cool :)
Jun 28 15:13:37 <Dave> no :P
Jun 28 15:13:47 <TAsn> that gives me the freerunner or the qtopia?
Jun 28 15:13:48 <Dave> don't worry, you won't be old by the time it's done :P
Jun 28 15:13:50 <LionKMP> Tanuva: make qemu-flash-official flashes from the images/openmoko dir, whatever you have there.
Jun 28 15:14:04 <Tanuva> LionKMP: ah..ehm.. I have Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-image... here, is this already asu?
Jun 28 15:14:17 <malik1972> tanuva: manually, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup
Jun 28 15:14:19 <Dave> eww
Jun 28 15:14:20 <Tanuva> ah
Jun 28 15:14:32 <Dave> Lion, surely you are running this on the pc
Jun 28 15:14:36 <balrog-k1n> Tanuva: yeah, these should be the ASU
Jun 28 15:14:39 <LionKMP> ahm, I am as much beginner as you are. But yes, I think that is it. (all with the mentioned BOOTS are)
Jun 28 15:14:41 <Dave> Since it runs like ass on the phone.
Jun 28 15:14:58 <LionKMP> ass? wish I had the phone already.
Jun 28 15:15:02 <Dave> Yes.
Jun 28 15:15:05 <LionKMP> ass is good or bad? :)
Jun 28 15:15:08 <Dave> BAD
Jun 28 15:15:09 <Dave> :P
Jun 28 15:15:11 <Tanuva> malik1972: that looks like what I'm looking for... :D
Jun 28 15:15:24 <Dave> First of all the apps are buggy, suck, and the qtopia image as a whole runs rather laggy on the phone.
Jun 28 15:15:44 <ramaya> and what's your expectation ? do u believe that after the official release we will have better software ... as many will use it ?
Jun 28 15:15:46 <Dave> granted you can increase the framerate such but it only accommodates so much.
Jun 28 15:15:53 <Dave> ramaya, I definitely do! :)
Jun 28 15:16:07 <Dave> Honestly, many developers are scrambling, each day working their butts off on cool software
Jun 28 15:16:12 <Dave> at least the ones I know ;)
Jun 28 15:16:40 <ramaya> we will se
Jun 28 15:16:40 <ramaya> e
Jun 28 15:16:45 <Dave> I've already gotten the GPS to work with tango and it was pretty sweet
Jun 28 15:16:58 <Dave> I ran around outside playing with it; then drove around :P
Jun 28 15:17:21 <Dave> Presently I am writing a couple small GPRS applications.
Jun 28 15:17:39 <ramaya> in python ?
Jun 28 15:17:49 * Tanuva already planned to gps-trace his hometown for osm
Jun 28 15:17:49 <Dave> nope
Jun 28 15:18:05 <Dave> nice :p
Jun 28 15:18:12 * faern will do the same as Tanuva :D
Jun 28 15:18:21 * balrog-k1n already did :D
Jun 28 15:18:25 <LionKMP> I'd rather use the Yahoo satellite images on OSM. Why not?
Jun 28 15:18:30 * Dave high-fives Balrog-kun
Jun 28 15:18:41 <Tanuva> theres already somewhere around here who does it, but he hasnt got to every corner yet :D
Jun 28 15:18:48 <Dave> right :P
Jun 28 15:19:08 * Dave is working on sekret development projekts
Jun 28 15:19:15 <ramaya> Dave: how much did you buy it ?
Jun 28 15:19:36 <Dave> Huh?
Jun 28 15:19:59 <Dave> I didn't buy it, if you are referring to the phone.
Jun 28 15:20:07 <ramaya> yes.. the phone
Jun 28 15:20:08 <Dave> We got a large initial shipment from the mfc.
Jun 28 15:20:10 <ramaya> a ok
Jun 28 15:20:21 <Dave> One of our grants paid for it :)
Jun 28 15:20:29 <ramaya> nice...
Jun 28 15:20:46 <Dave> Yep
Jun 28 15:20:51 <ramaya> i want an iphone... but i saw openmoko... 
Jun 28 15:20:55 <Dave> I've got three here on my desk :)
Jun 28 15:21:02 <Dave> Ramaya, glad to hear you liked the openmoko :P
Jun 28 15:21:03 <LionKMP> awww :-p
Jun 28 15:21:06 <ramaya> i like the open source idea
Jun 28 15:21:17 <Dave> honestly after software catches up, it will be way better than that stinky iphone :p
Jun 28 15:21:25 <Dave> I mean, the hardware alone is better!
Jun 28 15:21:26 <Dave> :D
Jun 28 15:21:31 <ramaya> and i dont like all the thing with iphone..that is locked etc.
Jun 28 15:21:35 <Dave> yes -_-
Jun 28 15:21:37 <Dave> sucky
Jun 28 15:21:39 <ramaya> so
Jun 28 15:21:52 <ramaya> is it worthwile to buy an openmoko ?
Jun 28 15:21:57 <Dave> Yes, very.
Jun 28 15:21:59 <Tanuva> sure
Jun 28 15:21:59 <Dave> :D
Jun 28 15:22:12 * Dave will be back later.
Jun 28 15:22:14 <Tanuva> at least if you dont expect it do do everything everywhere out of the box
Jun 28 15:23:11 <ramaya> what i want is a gadget that can connect to the net , listen music . watch videos .. et.c and to develop sth for ity
Jun 28 15:23:42 <LionKMP> no phone?
Jun 28 15:23:46 <Tanuva> videos are critical atm, but music and web should work afaik
Jun 28 15:24:00 <jonwil> do you need wifi or GSM or both?
Jun 28 15:24:12 <ramaya> the fact tha is phone is goog because it is one device for all 
Jun 28 15:24:14 <faern> :q
Jun 28 15:24:19 <faern> oops.. err
Jun 28 15:24:20 <ramaya> wifi...
Jun 28 15:25:11 <jonwil> I love OpenMoko.
Jun 28 15:25:13 <ramaya> i wouldn't say no to gsm.. but wifi is important
Jun 28 15:25:30 <LionKMP> jonwil: do you have it?
Jun 28 15:25:34 <jonwil> nope
Jun 28 15:25:37 <LionKMP> :-p
Jun 28 15:25:43 <faern> 3g would be nicer than wifi. its more accessible
Jun 28 15:25:57 <jonwil> Build a version with a keypad (say, a slider like the motorola Z6 or a candybar like the Motorola L6 or E8) and I am SO there
Jun 28 15:26:01 <ramaya> faern: both 3g and wifi
Jun 28 15:26:03 <eth01> :)
Jun 28 15:26:07 <jonwil> But I dont want a touchscreen phone
Jun 28 15:26:08 <faern> why not :D
Jun 28 15:26:33 <jonwil> I just dont like touchscreen phones
Jun 28 15:26:38 <jonwil> I prefer phones with numberpad
Jun 28 15:26:41 <swc|666> qwerty would be nice
Jun 28 15:26:46 <LionKMP> I have a 3G (lame) phone, and never used 3G in it yet. :-p
Jun 28 15:26:51 <faern> dvorak even nicer :D
Jun 28 15:26:57 <ramaya> the fact that freerunner is not 3g is not good... but ok... maybe the next 
Jun 28 15:27:11 <jonwil> not really a fan of full-keyboards either, the phone is too big or the buttons are too small
Jun 28 15:27:14 <LionKMP> I think, we could use a bluetooth mini keyboard if really needed.
Jun 28 15:27:26 <jonwil> I think that making OpenMoko support bluetooth keyboards would be good though
Jun 28 15:27:34 <jonwil> Another thing Apple refuses to do :)
Jun 28 15:27:35 <swc|666> jonwil.. not true, the htc kaiser has a qwerty and is pretty compact
Jun 28 15:27:37 <mjr> A phone with everything would be nice of course but this is what we're getting now. Best way you can ensure more variety of devices coming up is getting the Freerunner and writing nice stuff for it ;P
Jun 28 15:27:53 <mjr> LionKMP, indeed; I have one
Jun 28 15:27:57 * LionKMP agreed
Jun 28 15:27:58 <mjr> jonwil, it does
Jun 28 15:28:06 <jonwil> nice
Jun 28 15:28:16 <mjr> though last I used it there was nasty interaction with the onscreen keyboard
Jun 28 15:28:18 <mjr> still, basically works
Jun 28 15:28:38 <LionKMP> mjr: can you provide a link to that keyboard? is it a small one?
Jun 28 15:28:39 <eth01> this has probably been asked so many times. but i can't be bothered to look. 
Jun 28 15:28:44 <ramaya> do u know anything about a possible openmoko sdk ?
Jun 28 15:28:54 <eth01> can you buy this little ugly device yet or... ?
Jun 28 15:28:55 <Tanuva> isnt this the toolchain?
Jun 28 15:29:17 <eth01> seems very unclear on openmoko.org
Jun 28 15:29:18 <LionKMP> eth01: http://www.openmoko.com/store.html (click the active link)
Jun 28 15:29:25 <jonwil> There is no SDK for OpenMoko, only the source code and toolchain used to build the software
Jun 28 15:29:25 <LionKMP> yes, use .com :)
Jun 28 15:29:26 <Tanuva> eth01: we're nearly there
Jun 28 15:29:35 <eth01> i c.
Jun 28 15:29:44 <mjr> LionKMP, I use this one, though they've sadly I think stopped manufacturing them since: http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/2006/07/freedom_mini_bluetooth_keyboar.html
Jun 28 15:30:13 <mjr> LionKMP, sadly since that's the only one I've thus far seen with that spring-loaded hinge that helps it attach to a phone
Jun 28 15:30:35 <jonwil> I do applaud OpenMoko though, they have basically produced a phone that is about as open as it is legally possible to get
Jun 28 15:30:46 <mjr> it's not excellent otherwise, but what small kb is... I would recommend it because of the hinge if you can find it sold still somewhere
Jun 28 15:30:58 <gmaxwell> So, I'm a 1973 owner and I was excited to hear the freerunner was shipping (wifi and perhaps even working power management? woo!) ... but I can't find where to buy it.  Where should I be looking?
Jun 28 15:31:44 <faern> gmaxwell: link pasted two minutes ago
Jun 28 15:31:44 <jonwil> btw, I heard that next model of OpenMoko phone is going to drop the GPU and add a camera, is this true?
Jun 28 15:31:46 <abraxa_> gmaxwell: Depends on where you're from. If you're outside the EU you'll have to wait until the official shop on openmoko.com opens, unfortunately
Jun 28 15:31:48 <TAsn> have anyone tried running the basic moko image (make qemu) inside virtualbox+
Jun 28 15:31:49 <eth01> harshly expensive. not that i care. 
Jun 28 15:31:50 <TAsn> ?
Jun 28 15:31:52 <jonwil> And what else is planned to be changed?
Jun 28 15:31:59 <LionKMP> mjr: I see, yep, I saw this when finding one day. that left sided cursor keys looked difficult to get used to :)
Jun 28 15:32:02 <gmaxwell> abraxa_, Ah, yes, I'm in the US.
Jun 28 15:32:05 <mjr> jonwil, that is true as far as anyone knows. Also (probably) edge.
Jun 28 15:32:16 <TAsn> because it is crashing my virtualbox...
Jun 28 15:32:19 <jonwil> Hopefully they can get quad band GSM in there as well
Jun 28 15:32:35 <jonwil> If they are going to use EDGE, that means a new GSM chipset
Jun 28 15:32:49 <jonwil> which makes quad band possible in theory
Jun 28 15:32:51 <gmaxwell> faern, :) Doesn't help me since I just joined... ;)
Jun 28 15:32:56 <Tanuva> TAsn: why would you want to do this?
Jun 28 15:33:23 <mjr> jonwil, one would hope, yes. But anyway, the timetable is wide open and a Freerunner gets you in the game ;)
Jun 28 15:33:24 <faern> gmaxwell: http://openmoko.com/store.html
Jun 28 15:33:27 <TAsn> Tanuva, i have an ugly full of stuff ubuntu installation emulate in virtualbox
Jun 28 15:33:38 <eth01> whens the official store actually opening then?
Jun 28 15:33:46 <LionKMP>  ASU means August.... lol
Jun 28 15:34:07 <jonwil> the other thing that would make me interested in openmoko is if they added 3G
Jun 28 15:34:08 <TAsn> and installing all the crap essential for the build there sounds like a better idea
Jun 28 15:34:34 <Tanuva> TAsn: but running a vm in a vm is damn slow...
Jun 28 15:34:41 <gmaxwell> Wee.. So I guess I'm going to have to just keep checking the store twice a day just to have a chance to beat the flood of purchases when it goes on slashdot.
Jun 28 15:34:56 <TAsn> Tanuva, running an os on a phone is also slow ;0
Jun 28 15:35:03 <TAsn> (computer os
Jun 28 15:35:13 <eth01> you wouldn't want to run a VM in a VM.
Jun 28 15:35:14 <mjr> jonwil, yeah, obviously. That's not for GTA03, though, too expensive and/or proprietary interfaces and so on for a small outfit at this point.
Jun 28 15:35:19 <zash> phones are computers these days
Jun 28 15:35:27 <jonwil> yes, 3G would be expensive
Jun 28 15:35:33 <jonwil> in the small volume needed
Jun 28 15:35:33 <TAsn> eth01, why not?
Jun 28 15:35:35 <mjr> for now, GSM casts a (geographically) wider net and is cheaper to start with
Jun 28 15:35:46 <LionKMP> I think he means compiling an i386 binary of the whole os. isn't it? (not vm in vm)
Jun 28 15:35:47 <zash> how long ago did computers have ~400MHz?
Jun 28 15:35:48 <jonwil> and also, it would be difficult to find a 3G chipset that was open enough for openmoko
Jun 28 15:35:53 <eth01> TAsn: i was hoping nobody would reply. it's self-explanatory.
Jun 28 15:36:12 <eth01> ?
Jun 28 15:36:18 <abraxa_> gmaxwell: And register to the announce mailing list because I assume that Sean will make an announcement when the shop opens
Jun 28 15:36:36 <mjr> jonwil, yeah one hopes the 3g chipset situation improves while they're doing 03 still with gsm...
Jun 28 15:36:41 <TAsn> eth01, well i did 
Jun 28 15:36:51 <TAsn> now is there a reason why it should get stuck?
Jun 28 15:37:06 <TAsn> except for being slow?
Jun 28 15:37:07 <jonwil> am I correct in that the only piece of code running on the application side that is not open source is the GPS driver?
Jun 28 15:37:16 <gmaxwell> abraxa_, Thanks
Jun 28 15:37:29 <mjr> jonwil, that was GTA01 times. Freerunner changed GPS chips, that's gone as well
Jun 28 15:37:41 <jonwil> ok, so freerunner has open source GPS chip now?
Jun 28 15:37:57 <gmaxwell> jonwil, on GTA01 that was the case, but it's not anymore. GPS is supposed to be open now.
Jun 28 15:38:00 <abraxa_> jonwil: "open source" in the sense of "it does not need a driver", yes
Jun 28 15:38:07 <mjr> jonwil, no, rather it has the similar closed bits hidden in its firmware :]
Jun 28 15:38:26 <jonwil> firmware which runs on the GPS chip and not the host processor I guess
Jun 28 15:38:32 <jonwil> in which case its fine
Jun 28 15:38:36 <mjr> but here we again arrive at the "as open as legally possible" territory
Jun 28 15:38:44 <LionKMP> every day
Jun 28 15:38:48 <mjr> at least when you're taking the devices across US borders...
Jun 28 15:39:24 <gmaxwell> Thanks all!
Jun 28 15:39:26 <mjr> (GPS solutions that don't restrict operation in certain speeds and altitudes are munitions to them)
Jun 28 15:39:55 <jonwil> I can understand why though, such chips could be used in missiles or bombs
Jun 28 15:40:27 <jonwil> imagine bad guy takes tour of whitehouse and records GPS position then programs missile with coordinates and fires it
Jun 28 15:40:31 <TAsn> seems it doesn't get stuck, just really really slow.
Jun 28 15:40:34 <Tanuva> you could also use a random axe from any store to kill some people, I think this is somehow paranoid...
Jun 28 15:40:37 <TAsn> lets wait and see :)
Jun 28 15:40:38 <faern> lol. the whole world is run by terrorist fear these days. silly
Jun 28 15:40:59 <jonwil> still, the good thing is that they found a chipset that moved the closed source bits to its own CPU
Jun 28 15:41:05 <Tanuva> nearly everything can be useful to build a bomb
Jun 28 15:41:48 <mjr> well the reason seems solid on the face of it, but really, can't be overly difficult to eg. hack the proprietary gllin driver (that's the gta01 thing) to remove the limits if you really want to make cruise missiles...
Jun 28 15:42:23 <faern> or you could make a missile that runs at car speeds :D
Jun 28 15:42:26 <mjr> jonwil, but yes, it is for various reasons, even practical ones, nicer
Jun 28 15:43:12 <mjr> (lost of trouble with getting gllin shipped and working and so on...)
Jun 28 15:43:15 * jonwil wonders if someone will be daft enough to try and port, say, BSD, to the Freerunner
Jun 28 15:43:34 <mjr> I think somebody had a BSD running on NFS root already at some point
Jun 28 15:43:35 <jonwil> Considering the number of wierd devices people have ported BSD to, it wouldnt surprise me
Jun 28 15:43:42 <mjr> but dunno details
Jun 28 15:43:49 <mjr> IIRC the wiki has some mentions
Jun 28 15:44:14 * Tanuva is seeing boots again...
Jun 28 15:45:10 <jonwil> as for 3G, I dont think anyone (big or small) has shipped a 3G phone using a kernel that is open source
Jun 28 15:45:45 <jonwil> maybe in the future OpenMoko will be the first :)
Jun 28 15:45:51 <jonwil> but for now, GSM is good
Jun 28 15:45:51 <LionKMP> Tanuva: I found tested images: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ :) (Didn't try, I am wondering whether gta02 images work in QEmu and where is the third file)
Jun 28 15:46:24 <Tanuva> LionKMP: 02 images do work if you tell qemu -M gta02fake instead of -M gta01
Jun 28 15:46:35 <Tanuva> although 02 support isnt mature yet
Jun 28 15:46:38 <mjr> jonwil, not good, but it'll do :]
Jun 28 15:47:33 <jonwil> I recon for GTA03, a nice goal should be to at least match, if not beat all featureset of 1st generation 2G iPhone
Jun 28 15:47:51 <jonwil> I think FreeRunner is close
Jun 28 15:47:59 <jonwil> and planned GTA03 is even closer
Jun 28 15:48:06 <LionKMP> ...
Jun 28 15:48:47 <mjr> well yes, hw-wise, it beats the 2g device in many categories, though loses out in some, which the 03 should address
Jun 28 15:49:32 <jonwil> From what I know the main things the iPhone has that FreeRunner does not is quadband GSM, EDGE and Camera
Jun 28 15:49:51 <jonwil> I dont think there is any other hw in the 2G iPhone that FreeRunner does not have
Jun 28 15:50:25 <mjr> but iPhone comparisons shouldn't be overly encouraged, IMO
Jun 28 15:50:31 <jonwil> hmmm yeah
Jun 28 15:50:31 <eth01> i'm going to buy one of these to chuck in a blender
Jun 28 15:50:32 <eth01> i think
Jun 28 15:50:39 <Tanuva> why does everyone want a camera in his phone? I cant see any use for crappy phone-made pictures...
Jun 28 15:50:47 <jonwil> I dont like camera in phone
Jun 28 15:50:51 <jonwil> but some people do
Jun 28 15:51:03 <mjr> in many ways, as Sean has said, this is the anti-iPhone
Jun 28 15:51:07 <LionKMP> I make a lot of those crappy photos with my Motorola and then I hate them all. :-p
Jun 28 15:51:17 <Tanuva> lol
Jun 28 15:51:18 <mjr> they're very restrictive with what you're allowed to do
Jun 28 15:51:37 <faern> There are phones with 5Mp camera and flash these days. I want one of those in the neo
Jun 28 15:51:51 <Tanuva> hmm... cant flash.sh process gta02 images?
Jun 28 15:52:52 <jonwil> It doesnt matter if its 5Mp and has a flash, any camera without an optical zoom is useless IMO
Jun 28 15:53:18 <Tanuva> jonwil: thats it!
Jun 28 15:53:41 <mjr> a camera on the phone would have uses like barcode scanning etc :]
Jun 28 15:53:59 <mjr> I don't think it's high priority either, but 03 should provide for those who do
Jun 28 15:54:02 <dcordes> faern: 5megapixel? lol
Jun 28 15:54:03 <Tanuva> that would require a fairly good camera to be reliable
Jun 28 15:54:09 <jonwil> does OpenMoko have a web browser yet?
Jun 28 15:54:15 <dcordes> on a mobile phone. I need 100Mp with a crappy image quality please
Jun 28 15:54:16 <Tanuva> jonwil: yes
Jun 28 15:54:27 <Tanuva> jonwil: at least the gtk stack has one
Jun 28 15:54:30 <faern> dcordes: the pics look quite decent. very good for being a phone
Jun 28 15:54:35 <mjr> meanwhile, I _have_ already ordered an open Linux pocket cam from the community list ;P
Jun 28 15:54:42 <dcordes> the 3M in my htc kaiser is complete bullshit
Jun 28 15:54:46 <jonwil> is it webkit based browser?
Jun 28 15:54:58 <jonwil> i.e. KHTML?
Jun 28 15:55:09 <Tanuva> jonwil: dont know what gtk uses
Jun 28 15:55:21 <abraxa_> jonwil: Yeah, webkit
Jun 28 15:55:26 <jonwil> cool
Jun 28 15:56:00 <jonwil> It seems as though ever since Apple used webkit on the iPhone for the browser, its been showing up more and more on mobile devices (not just OpenMoko but Motorola linux phones too)
Jun 28 15:57:13 <faern> Up until today I had never heard of asu or fso. and now everyone treats the gtk stack as the pestilence. what a turn :/
Jun 28 15:57:49 <TAsn> faern, asu is in the topic for a couple of months now :)
Jun 28 15:57:56 <mjr> faern, no, everyone doesn't
Jun 28 15:58:12 <faern> TAsn: ok :P I just havent researched it then :P
Jun 28 15:58:27 <mjr> though Somebody (TM) would be nice to port it over to the fso middleware as many have noted
Jun 28 15:58:48 <igor321> may i just adress one thing, everyone is saying that the freerunner will be graphically useless, but at 20 fps qvga it's it has 70% of it's cpu power available, my point is this, wasn't half-life running on a 133 mhz pc 10 years ago?
Jun 28 15:59:03 <TAsn> faern, it used to be APRIL software update, so figure out yourself ;0
Jun 28 15:59:39 <faern> :P
Jun 28 15:59:55 <igor321> the frerunner seems more then capable to run games in qvga, or am i somehow mistaken?
Jun 28 16:01:48 <mjr> igor321, I don't think you are
Jun 28 16:02:35 <igor321> mjr: i remeber runing half-life without any 3d acceleration, but i could be mistaken
Jun 28 16:02:37 <Tanuva> igor321: the problem is the missing 3d acceleration afaik
Jun 28 16:02:50 <Tanuva> hmm
Jun 28 16:03:11 <mjr> yes well, think "doom" ;)
Jun 28 16:03:18 <abraxa_> igor321: Keep in mind that every pixel moved onto the screen prevents the CPU from doing anything else
Jun 28 16:03:37 <igor321> abraxa_: i've taken that into consideration
Jun 28 16:03:38 <mjr> abraxa_, I think he did, by counting 20 fps qvga taking 30% of the time to just draw?
Jun 28 16:03:49 <abraxa_> okay then
Jun 28 16:04:28 <igor321> when did 3dfx voodo come out?
Jun 28 16:06:33 <igor321> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_2
Jun 28 16:06:41 <igor321> check out the requirements for quake2
Jun 28 16:07:13 <igor321> 90 mhz, and on a screen as small as the freerunners it would look sweet :)
Jun 28 16:08:18 <Tanuva> but q2 is a quite fast game, how do you want to deal with input? accelerometers maybe, but they arent too accurate...
Jun 28 16:09:20 <igor321> Tanuva: yeah i'm not actually thinking of porting it, just saying there were lots of good looking games back then
Jun 28 16:09:22 <mjr> yeah, input is another kettle of fish. Or a more apt analogy.
Jun 28 16:09:30 <Tanuva> seems like I have to get a gta02-uboot from somewhere... but not today, gotta leave you now :)
Jun 28 16:09:31 <mjr> but what he said
Jun 28 16:09:41 <Tanuva> igor321: I wont doubt that :)
Jun 28 16:10:25 <igor321> can't wait to get it
Jun 28 16:10:29 * mjr still wants to adapt sdl-sopwith, but that'll probably require a bluetooth keypad to sanely control
Jun 28 16:10:40 <mjr> (luckily I have one ;)
Jun 28 16:11:08 <igor321> hehe
Jun 28 16:11:42 <igor321> i'd like to see a puzzle bobble (frozen-bubble) port
Jun 28 16:11:57 <igor321> i guess the controls would make sense :)
Jun 28 16:12:06 <LionKMP> s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20
Jun 28 16:12:20 <LionKMP> hm, I bricked my qemu :)
Jun 28 16:12:45 <igor321> LionKMP: says that to me too, but still works :)
Jun 28 16:13:27 <LionKMP> igor321: hehe, it does not work here. it was coming while trying to flash a gta02 image. (then I stopped it by kill -9)
Jun 28 16:22:54 <faern> which software stack is the image in the freerunner based on? the Image that the phone is shipped with
Jun 28 16:25:00 <mjr> om2008.2
Jun 28 16:26:28 <faern> is that gtk/asu/fso?
Jun 28 16:26:36 <mjr> gtk
Jun 28 16:26:39 <faern> ok
Jun 28 16:27:35 <tedo> i though it is shipped with asu/qtopia?
Jun 28 16:27:41 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 28 16:27:46 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jun 28 16:28:13 <faern> SpeedEvil: was your happiness wrongly targeted?
Jun 28 16:28:19 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jun 28 16:33:54 <mjr> tedo, no, apparently that's to be separately installed if you want it
Jun 28 16:34:19 <tedo> mjr: thx, nice.
Jun 28 16:47:53 <jzoef> hello, i downloaded the toolchain and compiled the sample. Now I want to test this program on the emulator. I can run 'make run-qemu' and the system boots, but i can not start an application or a terminal :(
Jun 28 16:49:02 <jzoef> I can see 'no network' on the screen and a few buttons, but they do not do anything.
Jun 28 16:51:58 <Pander> Hi all, does anyone know what devices exist that connect USB or BlueTooth to UMTS?
Jun 28 16:53:05 <Pander> (Which go well with OpenMoko FreeRunner)
Jun 28 16:56:01 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jun 28 16:56:10 <SpeedEvil> Any of the USB modems pretty much
Jun 28 16:56:26 <SpeedEvil> Go and find a provider that you like, look at the models they supply.
Jun 28 16:56:34 <SpeedEvil> Then google for eeepc modemname
Jun 28 16:56:49 <SpeedEvil> And you'll probably find a walk-through
Jun 28 16:57:48 <bipak> is it right that the battery only lasts about 12h?
Jun 28 16:57:57 <SpeedEvil> That's a complex issue.
Jun 28 16:58:10 <SpeedEvil> Basically, the power managment is 30% or so completed.
Jun 28 16:58:36 <bipak> but its more a software than a hardware problem?
Jun 28 16:58:36 <SpeedEvil> When it's done, it should last a week standby.
Jun 28 16:58:44 <SpeedEvil> Yes, believed to be so at the moment.
Jun 28 16:58:49 <bipak> ok :)
Jun 28 16:59:06 <SpeedEvil> The battery life is exactly what's expected due to the limited power saving that's done.
Jun 28 16:59:30 <Pander> USB UMTS modems are all around 150 - 200 euro/dollar, hmmm...
Jun 28 17:00:48 <mjr> running a USB UMTS device will probably drain your battery pretty fast though :)
Jun 28 17:01:34 <mjr> but I suppose I will have to try it out as well (I'm getting a Huawei 169 next week, for leasing out my soul for two years to my operator)
Jun 28 17:01:56 <Pander> well, it is the only wayt to use freerunner in japan, and for that matter I don't intent to make long calls there anyway ;)
Jun 28 17:02:23 <mjr> calls, hmm, may require additional software effort to make it call through it
Jun 28 17:02:43 <jzoef> is it possible to get a program working under qemu? (see my question above)
Jun 28 17:03:30 * mjr notes it's very annoying that all the funky USB adapters available over the counter lack the male-mini-b-to-female-a option :(
Jun 28 17:03:45 <mjr> ones I've seen here, anyway
Jun 28 17:03:56 <Pander> also that :S I really hope UMTS will be supported one way or the other
Jun 28 17:04:19 <mjr> well it's less about the UMTS and more about how the sticks handle the audio interface
Jun 28 17:05:28 <Pander> mjr, if you have seen one that combines will with freerunner, let me know of post it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UMTS
Jun 28 17:06:16 <mjr> Pander, well, when I get around to testing my Huawei (mostly for data transfer), I'll keep in mind to make a note
Jun 28 17:07:51 <McKael> jzoef: the image seems to be broken
Jun 28 17:08:22 <Pander> which one of http://www.huawei.com/mobileweb/en/view.do?id=462
Jun 28 17:08:52 <mjr> (I'll note that I'm not getting the Huawei for the Neo precisely, but for laptop(s) and desktop in case of outages ;)
Jun 28 17:09:47 <McKael> jzoef: you can try the images in http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/
Jun 28 17:11:04 <TAsn> i see "make download-images && make qemu-flash-official (or what ever it's name is)" make qtopia (which is asu, right?) how can i get the freerunner?
Jun 28 17:11:46 <TAsn> or for instance how do i use the images McKael linked?
Jun 28 17:11:53 <TAsn> (brb going to the other room)
Jun 28 17:13:00 <McKael> TAsn: I copied the files to images/openmoko/
Jun 28 17:13:07 <McKael> seems to work...
Jun 28 17:13:42 <McKael> LOL, kobodeluxe works very well
Jun 28 17:14:29 <mjr> yeah that's also encouraging in the sense of gaming with the Freerunner
Jun 28 17:18:14 <mjr> I don't know how kobo works but if it's possible to do most of the scrolling with gpu blits it would help...
Jun 28 17:19:04 <TAsn> McKael, how does it know which to choose?
Jun 28 17:19:40 <McKael> TAsn: I don't know, I moved the previous files
Jun 28 17:19:51 <TAsn> good enough ;)
Jun 28 17:20:14 <jzoef> ok, i downloaded a /recommended image and replaced three files, (the most recent versions), and now 'make run-qemu' has booted into a different desktop. looking good...
Jun 28 17:20:37 <LionKMP> the old gtk one :)
Jun 28 17:21:30 <faern> jzoef: I just managed to do the same :D
Jun 28 17:21:55 <faern> much nicer :D
Jun 28 17:27:49 <TAsn> boot already damn it :) im running it on an ultra slow computer
Jun 28 17:27:59 <TAsn> maybe weaker than the phone itself :(
Jun 28 17:30:01 <TAsn> hm i copied the latest recommended images (uboot, openmoko and the third one) put them all in the images dir, though i still get the boots, is this normal?
Jun 28 17:30:16 <TAsn> (can't tell more than that since that cpu is SLOW)
Jun 28 17:31:48 <McKael> TAsn: the boot is slow (with Qemu at least)
Jun 28 17:33:27 <TAsn> ok
Jun 28 17:33:35 <TAsn> i hope it's just with qemu
Jun 28 17:33:41 <McKael> :)
Jun 28 17:33:46 <TAsn> though boot isn't that important on the phone anyway :)
Jun 28 17:34:52 <jzoef> no i didnt get the boots (shoes) this time. 
Jun 28 17:35:20 <TAsn> jzoef, :\
Jun 28 17:35:36 <TAsn> that's what i asked... weird, what files did you download?
Jun 28 17:35:47 <TAsn> (weird that it didn't change for me)
Jun 28 17:36:42 <McKael> Oh, the boots... Sorry TAsn...
Jun 28 17:36:45 <jzoef> Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080430-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2, u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+svnr4297+gitb29661fc1151077776454288051bc9a488351ce8-r3.bin, uImage-2.6.24+svnr4301-r4251-r5-om-gta01.bin
Jun 28 17:37:54 <jzoef> i could start a terminal and install my sample app, though it's all still a bit slow on my 2500 GHz
Jun 28 17:38:05 <jzoef> MHz, that is
Jun 28 17:38:10 <ramaya> do u have any ready virtual image of openmoko os ?
Jun 28 17:38:44 <mjr> jzoef, to be expected. qemu's usefulness is overhyped for om stuff
Jun 28 17:39:40 <Dave> Greeting
Jun 28 17:40:32 <jzoef> mrj yeah, (if i start with serious development), is it possible to run it as an x86 machine, chrooted, or something more 'native'?
Jun 28 17:43:12 <jzoef> so how do you all develop, just copy stuff to you r phone?
Jun 28 17:46:54 <mjr> you can compile for x86 and run perhaps in a nested X server for the correct dimensions
Jun 28 17:47:19 <mjr> personally I prefer python, no compiling, and copying over, but I'm a small fish ;]
Jun 28 17:48:45 <Dave> So THAT's what smells in here...
Jun 28 17:49:11 <Dave> :P
Jun 28 17:50:41 <goodwill> I triend flashing http://downloads.openmoko.org/asu/ to qemu...and its just pretty unha[[y
Jun 28 17:50:49 <goodwill> unhappy
Jun 28 17:50:53 <goodwill> no flash
Jun 28 17:51:08 <goodwill> Please wait, programming the NAND flash... 11984
Jun 28 17:51:08 <goodwill> qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x00000008
Jun 28 17:51:23 <tasn23> phew. now it's working :)
Jun 28 17:51:30 <tasn23> (at least the splash screen is)
Jun 28 17:51:50 <goodwill> tasn23: whatch ya doing?
Jun 28 17:51:56 <Dave> hah
Jun 28 17:52:03 <tasn23> i gotta say it looks slicker than the boots :)
Jun 28 17:52:16 <Dave> haha, lame.
Jun 28 17:52:21 <tasn23> goodwill, giving moko dev a try... (qemu)
Jun 28 17:52:44 <goodwill> tasn23: ware you using mokomakefile?
Jun 28 17:53:05 <tasn23> yeah.
Jun 28 17:53:21 <goodwill> tasn23: gta01 or gta02 stuff?
Jun 28 17:53:28 <tasn23> though i tried the link someone put here earlier with the recommend images
Jun 28 17:53:57 <tasn23> goodwill, i think 01 not sure though, using the images from http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/
Jun 28 17:54:27 <goodwill> hmmm
Jun 28 17:54:45 <tasn23> just wanna feel a bit of moko ;0
Jun 28 17:54:48 <goodwill> I was kinda hopping somebody managed to get gta02 from /asu there running in qemu
Jun 28 17:55:55 <tasn23> booting takes forever though :
Jun 28 17:56:02 <jzoef> yeah I think with the mokomakefile you end up with a gta01 machine.
Jun 28 17:56:12 <goodwill> tasn23: yeah liek at least 2 minutes
Jun 28 17:56:16 <tasn23> goodwill, i think i saw a simple guide to running gta02 emu
Jun 28 17:56:22 <goodwill> tasn23: ?
Jun 28 17:56:30 <tedo> i'm trying now to get gta2, but i get an error during "flashing"
Jun 28 17:56:32 * Dave ships his junk off to goodwill
Jun 28 17:56:48 <goodwill> tedo: yeah me too
Jun 28 17:56:55 <goodwill> Dave: stuff is coming to fremont?
Jun 28 17:57:00 <Dave> hah!
Jun 28 17:57:04 <Dave> maybe :]
Jun 28 17:57:14 <tasn23> goodwill, as i said earlier, im using a machine as powerful as the moko itself and the machine has to run linux as well, not to mention moko is emulated...
Jun 28 17:57:27 <goodwill> tasn23: that sucks
Jun 28 17:57:30 <Dave> hah
Jun 28 17:57:41 <tasn23> goodwill, p3 rocks ;0
Jun 28 17:57:44 <goodwill> Dave: you seem to be in a hah mood today
Jun 28 17:57:51 <goodwill> tasn23: ooooh yaaahhh
Jun 28 17:57:55 <tasn23> goodwill, he has a device...
Jun 28 17:58:12 <goodwill> tasn23: I know...
Jun 28 17:58:16 <tasn23> of course he will be happy then.
Jun 28 17:58:28 <jzoef> can you start a python interpreter from the terminal (i'm just looking around)
Jun 28 17:58:35 <tasn23> damn this loading is slow...
Jun 28 17:58:40 <Dave> Goodwill, do you approve? :P
Jun 28 17:58:55 <goodwill> Dave: of course
Jun 28 17:59:06 <goodwill> Dave: if I had one of them I'd be ha here and ha there too
Jun 28 17:59:17 <Dave> :)
Jun 28 17:59:33 <tasn23> Dave, you don't know what you got till it's gone...
Jun 28 17:59:35 <tasn23> ;0
Jun 28 17:59:40 <Dave> Going to take one to the pool with me soon, oh but don't worry, I'm not testing it's "nautical application" just yet :P
Jun 28 17:59:52 <tasn23> it is still configuring gnome-vfs :(
Jun 28 18:00:08 <Dave> haha that'd be sweet, actually
Jun 28 18:00:43 <Dave> depth and equip it with a sonar module on a tethered dongle...
Jun 28 18:00:47 <tasn23> weehee got a warning, but at least it's configuring hal now...
Jun 28 18:01:00 * Dave goes off to think up more excitingly silliness in his openmoko daydreams
Jun 28 18:01:27 <tasn23> i want one!
Jun 28 18:01:41 <SpeedEvil> Dave: USB servo interface, and an artificial dolphin.
Jun 28 18:01:47 <tasn23> it is saying configuring multitap-pad, what is that?
Jun 28 18:01:56 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, lol.
Jun 28 18:02:01 <Dave> Speedevil, ooh yay!
Jun 28 18:02:11 <Dave> Flipper on Freerunner!
Jun 28 18:02:24 <Dave> Man, for a minute there I was almost thinking seaquest ;)
Jun 28 18:02:41 <tasn23> is it recognized as a drive when connected to a pc?
Jun 28 18:03:31 <mjr> it's a network interface
Jun 28 18:03:56 <tasn23> i see there's pulse audio, nice.
Jun 28 18:04:29 <mjr> Well. Nice and not.
Jun 28 18:04:37 <tasn23> mjr, bloated?
Jun 28 18:04:42 <Dave> Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Jun 28 18:04:48 <mjr> traditionally performance problems, dunno how fixed they are
Jun 28 18:05:04 <tasn23> too bad im already waiting for 15 mins for boot!
Jun 28 18:05:13 <tasn23> mjr, i c.
Jun 28 18:06:05 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: no - however in principle it can be.
Jun 28 18:06:16 <SpeedEvil> nas: it's recongised as a network adaptor
Jun 28 18:06:59 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rabc003bb5408 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/modems/abstract/pdp.py: ophoned: org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.[Dea|A]ctivateContext() now works, honoring APN only for now.
Jun 28 18:07:29 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, what were you reffering to? (the bloated or something else i said?)
Jun 28 18:07:46 <tasn23> Dave, what's the boot time on the device?
Jun 28 18:08:11 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: oh - sorry
Jun 28 18:08:19 <Dave> Hmm?
Jun 28 18:08:30 <Dave> How long it should relatively take? openmoko on qemu?
Jun 28 18:08:32 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: I thought you were talking about the freerunner - it can be configured in principle to behave like any USB device.
Jun 28 18:08:39 <SpeedEvil> daqv: it's really slow
Jun 28 18:08:42 <tasn23> Dave, no, openmoko on the freerunner
Jun 28 18:08:48 <Dave> oh
Jun 28 18:08:57 <Dave> It's much faster than emulated :)
Jun 28 18:09:04 <Dave> But it's a bit lagged sometimes.
Jun 28 18:09:06 <SpeedEvil> Dave: qemu is about 10-50% of speed, reportedly, depending on your CPU
Jun 28 18:09:19 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, can be configured when it's active or you have to restart?
Jun 28 18:09:26 <Dave> right
Jun 28 18:09:48 <tasn23> Dave, faster than emulated is a sure bet, how fast is the boot in minutes though?
Jun 28 18:09:49 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: active. But the softwaqre to do this isn't there.
Jun 28 18:10:03 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, cool enough.
Jun 28 18:10:04 <Dave> on the gta02?
Jun 28 18:10:10 <tasn23> Dave, yeah.
Jun 28 18:10:12 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: in principle, you can select 'mouse' - and it'll reconfigure and act as a mouse.
Jun 28 18:10:16 <Dave> Want me to time it for you?
Jun 28 18:10:27 <tasn23> Dave, no, just tell me is it
Jun 28 18:10:32 <tasn23> 30 secs
Jun 28 18:10:33 <tasn23> 1 min
Jun 28 18:10:34 <tasn23> 2 mins
Jun 28 18:10:38 <tasn23> or 3 hrs
Jun 28 18:10:39 <tasn23> :)
Jun 28 18:10:51 <SpeedEvil> First boot of all images is usually slower
Jun 28 18:11:03 <Dave> a minute about on the gta02
Jun 28 18:11:07 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, i figured that out...
Jun 28 18:11:19 <Dave> or two at most, on the device itself
Jun 28 18:11:20 <Dave> :)
Jun 28 18:11:27 <tasn23> Dave, it's ok, not that bad. my nokia boots in about this amount of time
Jun 28 18:11:40 <Dave> Ah, really? Okay cool :)
Jun 28 18:11:50 <tasn23> Dave, i was reffering to the 1 minute...
Jun 28 18:11:54 <Dave> right
Jun 28 18:12:02 <Dave> well, sixty seconds IS a while :)
Jun 28 18:12:08 <tasn23> think about that you don't really shut off your phone too ,uch during the dat...
Jun 28 18:12:13 <Dave> right!
Jun 28 18:12:13 <tasn23> day*
Jun 28 18:12:16 <Dave> that's the thing
Jun 28 18:12:25 <tasn23> i know, i was just wondering :)
Jun 28 18:12:28 <Dave> and the nice feature is you can selectively turn off and on all kinds of things on the gta02 :D
Jun 28 18:12:33 <Dave> plus the other apm stuff
Jun 28 18:12:41 <tasn23> Dave, i know...
Jun 28 18:12:41 <Dave> It'll get better later, surely.
Jun 28 18:12:50 <Dave> There's still a few quirks in the interface. :P
Jun 28 18:12:51 <Dave> haha
Jun 28 18:13:06 <Dave> Unintentional ones, I might add.
Jun 28 18:13:19 <tasn23> wow! i got the tray icons, is it possible that it finally loaded?! (still getting the please wait image though)
Jun 28 18:13:30 <Dave> oh yes
Jun 28 18:13:32 <Dave> wait more :)
Jun 28 18:13:32 <tasn23> it's up! :)
Jun 28 18:13:36 <Dave> it's coming
Jun 28 18:13:38 <Dave> :p
Jun 28 18:14:29 <tasn23> wow it is slow. (i guess that's because of this old computer, but still)
Jun 28 18:14:45 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: what CPU have you?
Jun 28 18:15:08 <tasn23> i already said p3, don't know what clock, though i guess 600-
Jun 28 18:15:27 <tasn23> wow, the open moko looks very nice
Jun 28 18:15:33 <tasn23> (the non qtopia)
Jun 28 18:16:00 <tedo> tasn23: could you post a screenshot?
Jun 28 18:16:04 <tasn23> how do i switch between open apps?
Jun 28 18:16:11 <SpeedEvil> I wonder what'd have happened if it had been continually developed since Feb.
Jun 28 18:16:17 <tasn23> tedo, sure thing, what part do you want to see?
Jun 28 18:16:29 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, why wasn't it?
Jun 28 18:16:33 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: top-left - there is a 'home' or 'your-network' - click that
Jun 28 18:16:39 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: ASU
Jun 28 18:16:48 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, i know
Jun 28 18:16:55 <tasn23> i meant why did they move to asu?
Jun 28 18:16:57 <tedo> tasn23: great, thx. home screen and stuff u like.
Jun 28 18:17:01 <SpeedEvil> TAsnn: Who knows.
Jun 28 18:17:11 <tasn23> weird ppl ;0
Jun 28 18:18:00 <jzoef> actually 'kobodeluxe' is completely fast enough on qemu :)
Jun 28 18:18:13 <tasn23> tedo, you can get them online and in youtube, but im taking some pics anyway :)
Jun 28 18:18:33 <tasn23> looks really promising,i really ought to buy one!
Jun 28 18:19:29 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, how do i close the calc for instance?
Jun 28 18:20:11 <goodwill> ok so the latest image looks better, but it seems nothing workd
Jun 28 18:20:13 <goodwill> works
Jun 28 18:20:24 <abraxa_> tasn23: Using the GTK+ image?
Jun 28 18:20:26 <jzoef> upper left corner (Calculator) and then click Home
Jun 28 18:20:32 <tasn23> abraxa_, 
Jun 28 18:20:42 <tasn23> jzoef, that doesn't close it, it's still running
Jun 28 18:20:49 <tasn23> that just to switch open apps...
Jun 28 18:20:55 <abraxa_> tasn23: You can close apps by pressing the power key 
Jun 28 18:21:07 <abraxa_> well... button
Jun 28 18:21:12 <tasn23> which is enter or space in the emulation?
Jun 28 18:21:26 <abraxa_> I dunno, sorry :)
Jun 28 18:21:28 <tasn23> what each does anyway?
Jun 28 18:21:34 <tasn23> what does aux do?
Jun 28 18:21:38 <tasn23> open dialer?
Jun 28 18:21:45 <tasn23> or on screen kb?
Jun 28 18:21:58 <tasn23> (it's slow as hell here, can't figure it out myself)
Jun 28 18:22:10 <abraxa_> I forgot...
Jun 28 18:22:16 <abraxa_> Been a while since I used 2007.2
Jun 28 18:22:20 <tasn23> :)
Jun 28 18:22:28 <tasn23> what are you using now? ugly qtopia?
Jun 28 18:22:44 <abraxa_> pyneo
Jun 28 18:22:49 <tasn23> what's that?
Jun 28 18:22:52 <tasn23> btw, neti
Jun 28 18:22:53 <abraxa_> aka the "underground" image
Jun 28 18:23:02 <tasn23> neither of the close the calc :
Jun 28 18:23:32 <SpeedEvil> click the word at the top-left
Jun 28 18:23:37 <tasn23> did so
Jun 28 18:23:41 <SpeedEvil> this then brings you back to home
Jun 28 18:23:53 <tasn23> SpeedEvil, but that keeps the apps open
Jun 28 18:24:05 <SpeedEvil> then you can select the bottom-right icon to view/manipulate open tasks
Jun 28 18:24:31 <tasn23> no way to close directly?
Jun 28 18:24:38 <tasn23> weird.
Jun 28 18:24:58 <goodwill> tasn23: for that you use trashcan
Jun 28 18:25:10 <tasn23> in that menu
Jun 28 18:25:15 <abraxa_> tasn23: On the device it works with the power button - dunno why it doesn't under qemu
Jun 28 18:25:21 <tasn23> but not directly from the app itself, how weird.
Jun 28 18:25:57 <Dave> :)
Jun 28 18:26:14 <tasn23> Dave, what image are you using?
Jun 28 18:26:14 <goodwill> because the space bar and Enter which are originally designate as spacebar and aux are now considered an actual spacebar and aux
Jun 28 18:27:28 <goodwill> ok nothing works in the latest qutopia image
Jun 28 18:27:41 <tasn23> goodwill, same thing happend to me.
Jun 28 18:28:03 <goodwill> tasn23: you click and click and nothing right?
Jun 28 18:28:09 <tasn23> btw does the freerunner has a speaker for the phone calls?
Jun 28 18:28:11 <goodwill> tasn23: all I get is the original screen
Jun 28 18:28:17 <tasn23> goodwill, yeah, same here.
Jun 28 18:28:38 <tasn23> tedo, still here?
Jun 28 18:28:45 <goodwill> well they are automatically built snepshots
Jun 28 18:28:50 <goodwill> so no big surprize there
Jun 28 18:28:55 <tedo>  tasn23: yes
Jun 28 18:29:07 <tasn23> where do you want me to upload to?
Jun 28 18:29:35 <tasn23> btw, does the browser render pages like a phone or like a pc?
Jun 28 18:29:58 <tedo>  tasn23: wherever you like :)
Jun 28 18:30:02 <tasn23> sec
Jun 28 18:32:44 <tasn23> tedo, as i said it is slow here :)
Jun 28 18:33:10 <tasn23> im taking a picture of the contacts menu and the dialer, and then you will have it.
Jun 28 18:33:23 <tedo> tasn23: no hurry
Jun 28 18:34:26 <tasn23> is there a way to use a qwerty for the adding of contacts?
Jun 28 18:35:32 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rcc890fb20e5b 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.h rtc.vala): Add GetWakeupTime using ioctl, segfaults..need to FIX
Jun 28 18:35:33 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r26d461071f8a 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.c input.h): Preliminary Input plugin.
Jun 28 18:37:45 <tasn23> tedo, uploading :)
Jun 28 18:39:58 <tasn23> weird, wont let me to batch upload
Jun 28 18:40:05 <tasn23> wel here there are 1 by 1...
Jun 28 18:40:23 <tasn23> http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7487/screenshotqemuqk8.png
Jun 28 18:40:30 <tedo> tasn23: thank you
Jun 28 18:40:58 * tasn23 is still uploading
Jun 28 18:41:28 <tasn23> http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2522/screenshotqemu1is8.png
Jun 28 18:42:47 <tasn23> http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2065/screenshotqemu2hn8.png
Jun 28 18:43:41 <tasn23> http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5493/screenshotqemu3oz0.png
Jun 28 18:43:55 <goodwill> tasn23: which image is that?
Jun 28 18:44:02 <tasn23> http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/483/screenshotqemu4oc4.png
Jun 28 18:44:11 <tasn23> goodwill, openmoko which kevin reviewd
Jun 28 18:44:42 <Tronic> The Gnome desktop calculator would be nicer.
Jun 28 18:44:57 <goodwill> tasn23: how did you flash it onto qemu? replace the images/openmoko and did make qemu?
Jun 28 18:45:07 <tasn23> no
Jun 28 18:45:18 <tasn23> make flash-images-official
Jun 28 18:45:23 <tasn23> or what ever that name is
Jun 28 18:45:32 <tasn23> not sure what is the name
Jun 28 18:45:52 <goodwill> weird I got a different set when I did that
Jun 28 18:45:56 <tasn23> http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2923/screenshotqemu6cw8.png
Jun 28 18:46:05 <tasn23> http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8674/screenshotqemu5wj4.png
Jun 28 18:46:08 <tasn23> that's it :)
Jun 28 18:46:12 <tasn23> what do you mean diffrent set?
Jun 28 18:46:16 <goodwill> OM really got to cut out the orange stuff
Jun 28 18:46:29 <tedo> tasn23:  thanks for the uploads. That is the preinstalled on the freerunner?
Jun 28 18:46:41 <tasn23> tedo, i think so, not sure.
Jun 28 18:46:42 <goodwill> tasn23: I think mine downloaded from like the back up site...its looks different
Jun 28 18:46:56 <tasn23> (im still here, using tasnn, cya from this comp)
Jun 28 18:47:27 <TAsnn> hey there.
Jun 28 18:52:58 <roterguru> hi
Jun 28 18:53:23 <roterguru> did someone get a  vid working on freerunner with acceptable framerate?
Jun 28 18:53:49 <goodwill> TAsnn: http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1337/om1px4.png
Jun 28 18:53:55 <goodwill> TAsnn: thats what I get
Jun 28 18:54:36 <TAsnn> abraxa_, do you have pics and reviews on pyneo?
Jun 28 18:55:01 <mjr> roterguru, http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/
Jun 28 18:55:02 <abraxa_> roterguru: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/
Jun 28 18:55:05 <abraxa_> lol mjr 
Jun 28 18:55:06 <TAsnn> goodwill, that's what i got earlier...
Jun 28 18:55:33 <goodwill> TAsnn: and then what happened?
Jun 28 18:55:42 <TAsnn> goodwill, nothing worked
Jun 28 18:55:50 <TAsnn> so i flashed the gtk...
Jun 28 18:56:28 <abraxa_> TAsnn: I'm not sure about a review. You can check http://neo1973-germany.de and http://www.vanille-media.de/images/Fosdem2008-Neo1973-high.m4v if you want to have a look
Jun 28 18:56:40 <TAsnn> abraxa_, i am.
Jun 28 18:56:41 <TAsnn> thanks.
Jun 28 18:57:32 <TAsnn> abraxa_, oh, it's the gtk phone with a lot of python apps instead of the regular ones?
Jun 28 18:57:38 <goodwill> TAsnn: how did you flash the gtk?
Jun 28 18:57:47 <TAsnn> told yeah
Jun 28 18:58:00 <abraxa_> TAsnn: No GTK involved, it's all EFL
Jun 28 18:58:08 <TAsnn> moved the openmoko dir to a backup dir
Jun 28 18:58:14 <roterguru> how far are we from 640×480 at full frame-rate vids?
Jun 28 18:58:15 <TAsnn> created a new openmoko dir
Jun 28 18:58:18 <TAsnn> put the images in
Jun 28 18:58:24 <abraxa_> roterguru: As far as you can get.
Jun 28 18:58:41 <TAsnn> and did that make flash official thingy
Jun 28 18:58:46 <TAsnn> abraxa_, what's efl?
Jun 28 18:58:59 <goodwill> TAsnn: you replaced the files in openmoko/images right?
Jun 28 18:59:21 <goodwill> TAsnn: enlightment library
Jun 28 18:59:24 <cga> abraxa_, how to get an efl interface to moko?
Jun 28 18:59:26 <roterguru> are 200h standby time realistic with software improvements?
Jun 28 18:59:34 <TAsnn> goodwill, yeah i have.
Jun 28 18:59:43 <TAsnn> and then did the flash official
Jun 28 18:59:46 <SpeedEvil> robtaylor: that's at teh edge of the likely
Jun 28 18:59:50 <goodwill> TAsnn: and you renamed the images accordingly?
Jun 28 18:59:50 <SpeedEvil> roter:
Jun 28 18:59:56 <TAsnn> goodwill, no.
Jun 28 19:00:01 <abraxa_> TAsnn: EFL = Enlightenment Foundation Libraries; they're most popular for being used by the e17 window manager
Jun 28 19:00:05 <goodwill> TAsnn: or symlinked them?
Jun 28 19:00:08 <TAsnn> listen carefully
Jun 28 19:00:16 <TAsnn> abraxa_, oh, i heard about that.
Jun 28 19:00:18 <SpeedEvil> roterguru: if everything is as understood, it should work OK.
Jun 28 19:00:30 <TAsnn> goodwill, 
Jun 28 19:00:38 <TAsnn> move away the openmoko dir
Jun 28 19:00:43 <TAsnn> from the images dir
Jun 28 19:00:50 <TAsnn> create a new openmoko dir
Jun 28 19:00:51 <TAsnn> there
Jun 28 19:01:00 <TAsnn> and put the 3 images you downloaded
Jun 28 19:01:13 <abraxa_> cga: If you want EFL on the Neo/FR, you can use either an underground, FSO or ASU image
Jun 28 19:01:16 <TAsnn> then
Jun 28 19:01:22 <TAsnn> flash
Jun 28 19:01:28 <cga> abraxa_, ok gonna try that when i get fr delivered
Jun 28 19:01:33 <cga> thanks
Jun 28 19:01:36 <goodwill> TAsnn: I have been doing that...just wanted your step by step from you, in case I was doing it the weird way
Jun 28 19:01:51 <goodwill> TAsnn: no reason to be mean
Jun 28 19:01:58 <TAsnn> goodwill, i am not mean :)
Jun 28 19:02:06 <TAsnn> just not used to dvorak yet
Jun 28 19:02:11 <goodwill> :-P
Jun 28 19:02:19 <TAsnn> and typing is still frustrating for me ;)
Jun 28 19:02:22 <cga> abraxa_, have you got any screenie o video?
Jun 28 19:02:40 <abraxa_> cga: Of what in particular?
Jun 28 19:02:58 <TAsnn> cga, he just gave a link...
Jun 28 19:02:59 <cga> well the main screen as a starter would be good =)
Jun 28 19:03:16 <goodwill> TAsnn: been there
Jun 28 19:03:17 <cga> the wordpress one?
Jun 28 19:03:26 <TAsnn> cga, and a vid.
Jun 28 19:03:33 <cga> i lost it
Jun 28 19:03:40 <TAsnn> look up...
Jun 28 19:04:05 <TAsnn> <abraxa_> TAsnn: I'm not sure about a review. You can check http://neo1973-germany.de and http://www.vanille-media.de/images/Fosdem2008-Neo1973-high.m4v if you want to have a look
Jun 28 19:04:13 <cga> thanks
Jun 28 19:04:26 <abraxa_> cga: http://www.vanille-media.de/images/Fosdem2008-Neo1973-high.m4v (underground), http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/FrameworkMilestone1.m4v (FSO) and there's a video of ASU somewhere around, too
Jun 28 19:04:40 <cga> cool thanks
Jun 28 19:06:04 <abraxa_> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ISHrtuQuGM <~ ASU
Jun 28 19:08:34 <sudharsh_> there is a flash mockup of ASU as well
Jun 28 19:08:49 <roterguru> does AGPS need phone network and costs minutes?
Jun 28 19:08:58 <Sup3rkiddo> nope it doesnt
Jun 28 19:09:13 <TAsnn> roterguru, yeah.
Jun 28 19:09:18 <TAsnn> but it's not a must.
Jun 28 19:09:24 <Sup3rkiddo> oh!
Jun 28 19:09:26 <Sup3rkiddo> my bad
Jun 28 19:09:27 <Sup3rkiddo> sorry
Jun 28 19:09:37 <TAsnn> i think it can use wifi though.
Jun 28 19:09:39 <mjr> If you can get assist data from the network it'll help to get a fix sooner. Has nothing to do with these arcane "minutes" you speak of.
Jun 28 19:09:52 <mjr> any network
Jun 28 19:10:34 <cga> couldn't it just work like a tomtom?? no phone needed (just guessing, i don't know much about it)
Jun 28 19:10:36 <TAsnn> mjr, not minutes
Jun 28 19:10:51 <TAsnn> you need a connection at the begining
Jun 28 19:11:01 <TAsnn> (to the internet using minutes)
Jun 28 19:11:14 <TAsnn> and then if you loose the signal it will connect again
Jun 28 19:11:18 <TAsnn> and so froth
Jun 28 19:11:18 <mjr> cga, we just said you don't need a phone.
Jun 28 19:11:21 <roterguru> so you don't pay for AGPS?
Jun 28 19:11:45 <smhar> greetings
Jun 28 19:12:35 <methril|laptop> afternoon :D
Jun 28 19:12:38 <mjr> TAsnn, one shouldn't think "minutes" figure into transferring data, though of course they might...
Jun 28 19:12:39 <TAsnn> roterguru, from what i know you do pay for agps, i may be wrong though. (it's just for the fix, if you don't loose gps signal it won't use agps more than once)
Jun 28 19:13:04 <TAsnn> mjr, that is correct it's a matter of seconds and few bytes
Jun 28 19:13:12 <TAsnn> (if i remember correctly)
Jun 28 19:13:18 <roterguru> ok, thx
Jun 28 19:13:36 <abraxa_> cga: GPS works without phone connection - they're talking about AGPS, which uses the phone carrier to give more precise information
Jun 28 19:13:40 <mjr> TAsnn, I mean the operators don't usually try to make the tenuous connection between data transfer and minutes, or do they where you come from?
Jun 28 19:14:03 <TAsnn> mjr, oh of course not.
Jun 28 19:14:21 <smhar> I have a basic question, will the default system and app in freerunner allow me to sync the contacts etc with my linux system?
Jun 28 19:14:27 <mjr> anyway, I actually don't know if the requisite assist information is freely available as such; how is it?
Jun 28 19:15:12 <TAsnn> what is fso? another fork like asu?
Jun 28 19:15:25 <abraxa_> TAsnn: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jun 28 19:15:25 <methril|laptop> freesmartpohone
Jun 28 19:15:35 <fenfir> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework
Jun 28 19:15:38 <TAsnn> abraxa_, fair enough :)
Jun 28 19:15:45 <methril|laptop> abraxa_ reaaly nice article
Jun 28 19:15:51 <methril|laptop> i just finish to read it 
Jun 28 19:16:00 <mjr> yeah that does clarify stuff
Jun 28 19:16:01 <abraxa_> methril|laptop: Yeah, he sums it up well.
Jun 28 19:16:46 <methril|laptop> but it's interesting that shows the openess
Jun 28 19:16:52 <abraxa_> smhar: The default image is 2007.2 which uses the evolution data server, so in theory the answer is yes. In the long run the answer definitely will be yes for other software stacks also but that'll take some time.
Jun 28 19:17:22 <TAsnn> abraxa_, it's oss it can be easily adjusted anyway...
Jun 28 19:17:28 <smhar> abraxa_, great :-)
Jun 28 19:18:27 <smhar> what about my current huge address book in the crapy nokia 9300i communictor? is it possible to easily transfer them to FR?
Jun 28 19:19:30 <Tig|> 'ning all :) 
Jun 28 19:20:19 <TAsnn> smhar, my bet is, that if you can transfer it to a linux box, you can transfer it to a moko.
Jun 28 19:20:21 <TAsnn> cya, gn.
Jun 28 19:20:28 <Tig|> quick question has anyone managed to get ScaredyCat's images working on a freerunner?  
Jun 28 19:20:44 <smhar> wow.. i just discovered this page.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel . not only OM is Free and working which whould be enough for me, it also look good
Jun 28 19:20:48 <abraxa_> Tig|: What image in particular? ScaredyCat has lots.
Jun 28 19:21:08 <abraxa_> smhar: That page is horribly outdated :)
Jun 28 19:21:16 <mwester> I don't think *ANY* images work on the freerunner at this point; mine hasn't been useful for over a week.
Jun 28 19:22:00 <Tig|> well I managed to get the Openmoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080625-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2' running but it bitched like hell on boot and was unuably slow but seemed to have lots of lovely things on there :) 
Jun 28 19:22:02 <mwester> The FSO image is the most stable one at this point; the ASU image is a study in bleeding edge.
Jun 28 19:22:39 <mwester> And I hear that it's best not to attempt any of them on the SD card at this time, so no dual-images yet either.
Jun 28 19:22:41 <smhar> mwester, we can always keep the working image installed and try the other images using external devices, right?
Jun 28 19:22:55 <Tig|> mwester:  the snapshot from the 25th seems to be alright I have been running that the last few days with only a few quirks 
Jun 28 19:23:48 <mwester> I was out of town for business this week, so I didn't get a chance to try any mid-week images.  Maybe I'll roll back to the 25th and see what happens.
Jun 28 19:23:51 <smhar> I WANT TO HOLD THE FREERUNNER IN MY HANDS QUICKLY
Jun 28 19:23:58 <smhar> shouting was intended :-)
Jun 28 19:24:00 <abraxa_> Tig|: Well, it says gta01 in the file name, so I doubt it'll run on a freerunner
Jun 28 19:24:24 <Tig|> abraxa_: that is what I feared :( 
Jun 28 19:24:41 <abraxa_> smhar: You can boot from the internal microSD card if you want, so the flash memory won't be touched.
Jun 28 19:26:21 <smhar> I can't wait to get my hands on it. I would love to have it with me even if it means it will ot be functional untill August, when ASU is available
Jun 28 19:26:52 <smhar> any idea when the openmoko will start oferring it? even as a pre order?
Jun 28 19:27:17 <Tig|> last I heard it was still sounding like 4th july
Jun 28 19:27:34 <Tig|> or around then but no dates have been anounced
Jun 28 19:27:50 <Tig|> but some resellers are shipping/taking orders already
Jun 28 19:28:06 <smhar> so no pre orders from OM
Jun 28 19:28:08 <abraxa_> Sounds likely as the German distributors are receiving shipments from China already
Jun 28 19:28:30 <Tig|> abraxa_: yep,  the UK has already had a batch (he says stroking his freerunner :) )
Jun 28 19:28:39 <abraxa_> hehe nice
Jun 28 19:29:05 <malik1972> http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?tracknumbers=8639+9990+2909
Jun 28 19:29:22 <smhar> I tried ordering from the german didtributor listed but my country is not in the list :-(
Jun 28 19:29:43 <Tig|> where are you?
Jun 28 19:29:59 <abraxa_> Tig|: Since you have a freerunner, why didn't you flash the gta02 image from ScaredyCat's repo?
Jun 28 19:30:09 <Tig|> eh?  where is that?
Jun 28 19:30:15 <abraxa_> http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/Openmoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080507-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2
Jun 28 19:30:22 <smhar> Bahrain, Near Qatar and Saudi Arabia
Jun 28 19:30:36 <Tig|> abraxa_: I must be going blind
Jun 28 19:30:44 <abraxa_> ;)
Jun 28 19:30:48 <Tig|> abraxa_: thanks for that :) :) :)  
Jun 28 19:30:52 <abraxa_> no prob
Jun 28 19:32:48 <Tig|> abraxa_: good grief I am a spanner,  I know why I missed it,  I was ordering the list by date :/
Jun 28 19:33:07 <Tig|> another reflash coming up :) 
Jun 28 19:33:43 <abraxa_> Tig|: The list is a little messy indeed, unfortunately
Jun 28 19:35:06 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r2a5e765af69e 10/odeviced/src/plugins/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Fix compiler warnings
Jun 28 19:35:07 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rddbcf2a5eabd 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.c input.vala): add plugin init function for input plugin
Jun 28 19:36:58 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r5c5e9026918b 10/odeviced/ (etc/odeviced.conf src/plugins/input/input.plugin): Fix to the input plugin keyfile
Jun 28 19:37:16 <smhar> I am no pro programmer but I have some Delphi (windows) experience, what languages can I use to develop for the freerunner?
Jun 28 19:37:36 <mjr> pretty much anything but delphi
Jun 28 19:37:44 <Sonicadvance1> xD
Jun 28 19:37:48 <smhar> :-)
Jun 28 19:39:15 <goodwill> heheeh
Jun 28 19:39:24 <goodwill> smhar: python is a good one
Jun 28 19:39:29 <smhar> I am currently  learning HTML/PHP/CSS for web development of my personal site, will that be usefull 
Jun 28 19:39:47 <mjr> well, whilst you could leverage php on the neo, I wouldn't really recommend it
Jun 28 19:39:51 <smhar> python will be next on my big To Do List
Jun 28 19:40:08 <mjr> python is good for non-performance-critical stuff
Jun 28 19:40:26 <mjr> C/Vala perhaps for more tight things
Jun 28 19:40:50 <smhar> what is Valva?
Jun 28 19:41:02 <mjr> C's bastard cousin C++ of course also, but ...
Jun 28 19:41:02 <smhar> s/valva/vala
Jun 28 19:41:40 <mjr> http://live.gnome.org/Vala - just mentioned it because got reminded that the freesmartphone.org stack seems to be using it at least a bit :]
Jun 28 19:45:17 <smhar> so Vala is a gnome language, but the current development trend in OM is QT!
Jun 28 19:45:39 <mjr> not really
Jun 28 19:45:55 <goodwill> smhar: thats just one of the interfaces
Jun 28 19:46:00 <mjr> read http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jun 28 19:46:01 <Tig|> meh,  OM is not *going* qt 
Jun 28 19:46:12 <Tig|> mjr: I was just finding that link :) 
Jun 28 19:46:15 <goodwill> how do I do Ctrl-C in terminal in OM
Jun 28 19:46:31 <Tig|> qt will be available the same as GTK and E 
Jun 28 19:47:25 <mwester> The OM QT thing stinks of Marketing and management mis-expectations; I think anyone who knows anything about technology at OM knows that the QT thing is just a sad and terrible distraction that has only the smallest chance of achieving the goal of making the freerunner appear to work as a phone when the hardware ships.
Jun 28 19:47:27 <goodwill> what exactly si freerunner shipping with as default
Jun 28 19:47:37 <mjr> om2007.2
Jun 28 19:47:44 <Tig|> OM is adopting the qtopia phone suite as it is currently closer to being a stable consumer suite than the home developed GTK suite
Jun 28 19:48:08 <smhar> from my understanding, GTK will be there as it stands today, no much official work will be done on it, but it will be available, while the efforts will be focused on developing based on QT, am I right?
Jun 28 19:48:13 <mwester> Tig|:  Correct, but it seems that was an assumption that was not based on facts.
Jun 28 19:48:14 <Tig|> goodwill: It ships with the OM2007.2 the firmware file date is from April this year
Jun 28 19:48:21 <mjr> smhar, no, read the link
Jun 28 19:48:45 <smhar> Then I need to read it carefully
Jun 28 19:48:50 <mwester> The Qtopia they are using is an experimental branch that uses X, not the stable Qtopia that's been working on the GTA01 for so many months.
Jun 28 19:48:53 <goodwill> mjr: so stupid question: OM2007 is still being developed or has the development of it stopped in 2007.2
Jun 28 19:49:54 <Tig|> mwester: that is because as I understand it the qtopia that was running on the GTA01 wrote straight to the framebuffer and was not X based
Jun 28 19:49:55 <mjr> if you mean the 2007.2 suite of apps, they do seem to be on the backburner, though there is some community interest in continuing those / integrating with the framework
Jun 28 19:50:06 <mjr> if you mean the original 2007.1 I don't think anyone's interested in that
Jun 28 19:50:54 <abraxa_> goodwill: 2007.2 is unmaintained as of now.
Jun 28 19:51:16 <Tig|> mwester:  they needed to make it X based explicitly so people can run QT GTK and EFL apps simultaneously 
Jun 28 19:51:19 <smhar> what does 'further releases of the ASU' mean? will the official image only be available on August(s) or maybe August(s) and April(s)?
Jun 28 19:51:27 <goodwill> so OM's plan goign forward is to make ASU stable?
Jun 28 19:51:56 <mwester> Tig|:  Of course.  But that doesn't change the fact that the decision to switch was a very poor choice by management.
Jun 28 19:51:57 <abraxa_> goodwill: The ASU is just something they made to fill the void between 2007.2 and a usable FSO image
Jun 28 19:52:19 <Tig|> abraxa_: not quite correct as new updates and fixes are being released to the 2007.2 line (hence the daily snapshots on om.com) but the main development drive is now on the ASU as I understand it
Jun 28 19:52:40 <Tig|> and the FSO obviously :) 
Jun 28 19:53:30 <goodwill> so basically, FSO is whats is currently the bleeding edge...
Jun 28 19:53:32 <abraxa_> Tig|: The buildhost builds images daily, changes or not
Jun 28 19:53:57 <abraxa_> goodwill: Yes, and it's where the bacon is
Jun 28 19:54:21 <goodwill> seems liek a decent plan
Jun 28 19:54:39 <goodwill> provide API, befault defalt apps and let it fly in the OSS
Jun 28 19:56:09 <Tig|> abraxa_: this is true but for example diffing the kernel from 25th and 27th july and they are different :) 
Jun 28 19:56:29 <goodwill> Tig|: eh?
Jun 28 19:56:36 <abraxa_> Tig|: Yeah, but that's the kernel. That's the same for all software stacks :)
Jun 28 19:57:16 <goodwill> has any have much experience with booting from SD
Jun 28 19:57:39 <goodwill> cause I'd preffer to do writes to an SD card which I can replace rather tehn build in flash
Jun 28 19:57:45 <goodwill> make it easier for all kinds of things
Jun 28 19:58:02 <mwester> SD boots don't currently work.
Jun 28 19:58:11 <mwester> (fail on resume)
Jun 28 19:58:29 <Tig|> hahahahaha I seem to have something else to thank ScaredyCat for :) :) :) when his image loads he has replaced the startup sound with him meowing :)  the dog just jumped up ran up to the window and got very disturbed and then started looking for the cat :) :) :) 
Jun 28 19:58:51 <goodwill> Tig|: ok thats a little sad
Jun 28 19:59:01 <Tig|> but it was very funny here :) 
Jun 28 19:59:21 <abraxa_> ...is that going to happen every time you boot up the Neo now? ;)
Jun 28 19:59:42 <Tig|> hopefully :)
Jun 28 19:59:56 * Tig| now plans to reboot often :)
Jun 28 20:02:59 <goodwill> ok so for an ssh connection to qemu I need usb gadgets it seems
Jun 28 20:08:17 <smhar> ok friends,, gtg now, it is past 11pm already.. bye and happy freerunning
Jun 28 20:32:31 <goodwill> the beauty of a wiki is that I can edit it
Jun 28 20:32:53 <LionKMP> :-o
Jun 28 20:32:56 <Sonicadvance> and then once you're done editing, someone adds penis to it 25 times
Jun 28 20:33:03 <goodwill> hahahah
Jun 28 20:33:14 <goodwill> I actually mean useful editing
Jun 28 20:33:17 <goodwill> but what do I know
Jun 28 20:41:15 <Dave> Yes, honestly, there's more bugs to fix in the wiki than there are the phone, as of presently :P
Jun 28 20:41:53 <Dave> Though I would have liked if someone just make a new GTA02 wiki instead, since much of the GTA01 is confusing to users of the Freerunner.
Jun 28 20:41:54 <LionKMP> wish someone could remove outdated info. I spent many days reading reading, and it's more and more confusing :)
Jun 28 20:41:59 <Dave> Right.
Jun 28 20:42:19 <Dave> Basically there might be an **added** note which says, oh hi, btw, you can ignore all of this if you have the freerunner. :P
Jun 28 20:42:37 <LionKMP> I suddenly found a Freerunner hardware page, which was compeltely unrelated to the "Hardware" page itself (so at least I added a link to Freerunner hw)
Jun 28 20:42:38 <Dave> Silliness.
Jun 28 20:42:46 <Dave> hah
Jun 28 20:43:10 <LionKMP> yes, the problem is that gta01 owners still need the old info :( (not the OS info maybe?!)
Jun 28 20:43:41 <LionKMP> additionally there are at least 6 ways to build/run OM, so I tried both (coz not understanding which one to take)
Jun 28 20:43:48 <LionKMP> both = all :-)
Jun 28 20:44:53 <abraxa_> Dave: Actually, such a note already exists on most outdated wiki pages.
Jun 28 20:45:07 <LionKMP> depends on what you call outdated
Jun 28 20:45:18 <LionKMP> is gta01 outdated? :-p
Jun 28 20:45:45 * balrog-k1n killed the s3c2442's timer :)
Jun 28 20:46:05 <abraxa_> LionKMP: I wouldn't say so
Jun 28 20:46:36 <LionKMP> yes, then like on wikipedia, some page-top templates could be added "gta01 only". ? would be useful I think.
Jun 28 20:46:49 * LionKMP wonders why people translates pages like this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines/it
Jun 28 20:47:02 <LionKMP> :-)
Jun 28 21:04:28 <Datasurfer> hi, i have problems with running openmoko in qemu. I am trying to get a first impression of openmoko. I used the makefile and qemu starts fine and openmoko boots. after that I get a bar with a message "No network". I also see four buttons on the bottom of the screen. If I click on them they flash once. thats it. I am not really sure on how to proceede? I am especially interested in looking at the applications. How do I do that?
Jun 28 21:04:42 <Datasurfer> thanks for your help :-)
Jun 28 21:10:12 <Datasurfer> noone?
Jun 28 21:13:45 <goodwill> Datasurfer: its the daily build
Jun 28 21:13:59 <goodwill> Datasurfer: not guaranteed to wrok
Jun 28 21:14:03 <goodwill> work
Jun 28 21:14:35 <goodwill> Datasurfer: go to the image
Jun 28 21:14:47 <goodwill> mv openmoko default
Jun 28 21:14:59 <goodwill> mkdir openmoko
Jun 28 21:15:01 <goodwill> cd openmoko
Jun 28 21:15:13 <goodwill> then get some of the recommended images
Jun 28 21:15:31 <Datasurfer> goodwill: ok, I will try that
Jun 28 21:15:52 <Datasurfer> goodwill: I will report back
Jun 28 21:17:07 <goodwill> like so: wget http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080421-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/uImage-2.6.24+git20080421-r0-om-gta01.bin http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+svnr4297+gitb29661fc1151077776454288051bc9a488351ce8-r3.bin
Jun 28 21:17:26 <goodwill> then go back up
Jun 28 21:17:34 <goodwill> and run make flash-qemu-official
Jun 28 21:17:51 <Datasurfer> goodwill: the commands that you just gave, is that in the build/qemu directory?
Jun 28 21:17:55 <goodwill> and run it with make run-qemu or make run-qemu-snapshot
Jun 28 21:18:23 <goodwill> its in image directory
Jun 28 21:18:55 <goodwill> from where the makefile is
Jun 28 21:18:59 <goodwill> cd images
Jun 28 21:19:08 <goodwill> then follow what I said
Jun 28 21:19:37 <Datasurfer> thanks a lot.
Jun 28 21:20:10 <goodwill> np
Jun 28 21:20:49 <Datasurfer> someone should put that on the wiki page
Jun 28 21:21:04 <goodwill> yes...some one should ;)
Jun 28 21:21:31 <LionKMP> which wiki page?
Jun 28 21:21:34 <LionKMP> I'll.
Jun 28 21:21:42 <Datasurfer> ;-) I'd do it, if I actually knew what I'am doing
Jun 28 21:22:09 <Datasurfer> LionKMP: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU
Jun 28 21:22:57 <LionKMP> oh, "Redirected from page QEmu" does not actually change the URL (it stays on URL QEmu).
Jun 28 21:22:58 <Datasurfer> openmoko is a topic about which I can say I am totaly noob without feeling ashamed
Jun 28 21:23:24 <LionKMP> Datasurfer: you are something like 4th guy asking that 4 buttons question today. :)
Jun 28 21:23:37 <Datasurfer> LionKMP: Oh, sorry
Jun 28 21:23:46 <LionKMP> np at all :-)
Jun 28 21:23:52 <Datasurfer> Thats the problem with irc, you just ask away
Jun 28 21:24:07 <LionKMP> you can't scroll back if you werent here.
Jun 28 21:24:26 <Datasurfer> Obviously I picked the wrong day for looking at openmoke :-)
Jun 28 21:25:14 <LionKMP> see recommended build's date. you had something like 2 months to pick this "wrong day" since last recommended build ;-)
Jun 28 21:25:36 <Datasurfer> LionKMP: there is an archive of this channel somewhere on the internet i think
Jun 28 21:26:10 <Datasurfer> hm, the wiki page really should tell people about this
Jun 28 21:26:48 <Datasurfer> I think many people will look at the qemu version first before making the decision to buy a neo.
Jun 28 21:26:50 <goodwill> Datasurfer: no worries, I* am a n00b too..just a few days ahead of you
Jun 28 21:27:15 * LionKMP too
Jun 28 21:27:45 <Datasurfer> goodwill: good to know, 
Jun 28 21:28:12 <goodwill> I just been doign the qemuy thing over and over wiping out previous install so I can learn over and over
Jun 28 21:28:17 <goodwill> different ways of doing it
Jun 28 21:28:40 <goodwill> I am trying to get gta02 going on it
Jun 28 21:28:52 <goodwill> and attempt to install a package or two
Jun 28 21:29:03 <goodwill> bb, got to reboot with new kernel
Jun 28 21:55:03 <Datasurfer> LionKMP: FYI: goodwills hints helped and it works now
Jun 28 21:55:52 <Datasurfer> goodwill: I just see you joined back, thanks a lot
Jun 28 21:56:06 <goodwill> Datasurfer: np
Jun 28 21:56:19 <Datasurfer> goodwill: what I am looking at know is gta01?
Jun 28 21:57:36 <goodwill> Datasurfer: well its what ever OM people build right now as the current snapshot of devel I think that was built a whiel back and was recommended
Jun 28 21:57:42 <goodwill> Datasurfer: its nto ASU
Jun 28 21:57:59 <goodwill> Datasurfer: and its built for gta01 
Jun 28 21:58:06 <LionKMP> I added the info to Wiki :) 
Jun 28 21:58:27 <Datasurfer> nto?
Jun 28 21:58:37 <LionKMP> not ASU
Jun 28 21:58:50 <Datasurfer> ah, ok
Jun 28 21:58:50 <LionKMP> that 04.21. image is the old GTK one
Jun 28 21:58:59 <goodwill> Datasurfer: I have not managed to get gta02 to run under qemu
Jun 28 21:59:19 <Datasurfer> ok, so what I tried before that did not work, was that the gta02?
Jun 28 21:59:20 <goodwill> LionKMP: thats the Kevin recommended image
Jun 28 21:59:32 <goodwill> Datasurfer: no that was just the dail automated build
Jun 28 21:59:42 <goodwill> so gta01 build are fro neo1973
Jun 28 21:59:50 <goodwill> gta02 builds are for freerunner
Jun 28 22:00:06 <goodwill> also read this: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jun 28 22:00:14 <goodwill> that will hep to clear somet higns up
Jun 28 22:00:35 <Datasurfer> ah, ok, so the gta01 and gta02 can look completely the same, they are just build for different hardware,
Jun 28 22:01:09 <LionKMP> gtaXX is hardware name. goodwill: good article title, I am going to read that right now :)
Jun 28 22:01:57 <Dave> exactly :P
Jun 28 22:02:14 <Dave> like asu fso wtf bbq p2p kekek
Jun 28 22:02:20 <LionKMP> :D
Jun 28 22:02:34 <Dave> I'm so glad the images aren't actually named that :P
Jun 28 22:03:33 <Datasurfer> goodwill: I actually remember that I have seen that article in my feedreader earlier this evening, but only read half of it
Jun 28 22:04:23 <goodwill> Datasurfer: so basically gtk+ is not really being actively developed (though some say supported), qutopia is being posrted and pushed because it allows OM to ship a functionaning phone
Jun 28 22:04:35 <goodwill> Datasurfer: and fso is where OM wants to go
Jun 28 22:05:10 <goodwill> Datasurfer: fso is basically a dbus based api
Jun 28 22:05:24 <goodwill> Datasurfer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework
Jun 28 22:06:18 <goodwill> though I find it confusing that PIM is on the same layer as Networking and Telephony
Jun 28 22:06:36 <LionKMP> that PIM is the database system, not the GUI.
Jun 28 22:07:07 <goodwill> hmmm
Jun 28 22:07:09 <LionKMP> "engine" for PIM
Jun 28 22:07:11 <goodwill> oh I see
Jun 28 22:07:21 <LionKMP> gonna be coded as summer code project 2008.
Jun 28 22:07:28 <goodwill> yeah
Jun 28 22:07:59 <goodwill> its going to be another year before it all sorted out, by which time the hardware shoudl be fairly well tested
Jun 28 22:08:15 <goodwill> if OM manages to survive
Jun 28 22:08:21 <goodwill> which I kinda hope it will
Jun 28 22:08:41 * LionKMP too
Jun 28 22:09:16 <Datasurfer> so if I bey a freerunner today the software is the one that I am seeing right now in my qemu?
Jun 28 22:09:25 <Datasurfer> s/bey/buy
Jun 28 22:09:49 <LionKMP> http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/moko/qemu-moko2.png 
Jun 28 22:10:00 <LionKMP> if you see that one, then yes. 
Jun 28 22:10:27 <Datasurfer> jupp
Jun 28 22:10:35 <LionKMP> http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/moko/qemu-moko1.png this one you can get by trying a daily snapshot ;-)
Jun 28 22:10:39 <abraxa_> Datasurfer: Where are you from?
Jun 28 22:10:42 <abraxa_> Which city, I mean
Jun 28 22:11:18 <Datasurfer> abraxa_: Aachen, why?
Jun 28 22:13:12 <abraxa_> Datasurfer: Just out of curiosity as there are tons of Neos in Germany
Jun 28 22:14:28 <peepsalot> what is FSO based on?  will it use e17 wm like ASU
Jun 28 22:14:42 <peepsalot> s/will/does
Jun 28 22:14:54 <goodwill> Datasurfer: I believe that said you get the 2007.2 with is the original GTK+ one
Jun 28 22:14:58 <LionKMP> is freesmartphone.org started by OpenMoko staff, or did it exist long way before?
Jun 28 22:15:41 <goodwill> peepsalot: fso is more of a api, rather then GUI
Jun 28 22:15:47 <goodwill> though there will be a default gui
Jun 28 22:15:53 <abraxa_> peepsalot: FSO is focusing on middleware but the GUI apps will use EFL indeed
Jun 28 22:16:25 <goodwill> abraxa_: the default apps will use afl
Jun 28 22:16:25 <abraxa_> LionKMP: It was started by Openmoko staff (mickeyl, to be exact)
Jun 28 22:16:36 <abraxa_> afl?
Jun 28 22:16:43 <goodwill> abraxa_: efl
Jun 28 22:16:45 <goodwill> my bad
Jun 28 22:16:48 <abraxa_> Yeah
Jun 28 22:17:19 <peepsalot> goodwill, i was under the impression that FSO referred to a complete build, including all levels of the software
Jun 28 22:17:43 <goodwill> peepsalot: maybe I am wrong, I know raster was talking about it as an API more
Jun 28 22:17:58 <peepsalot> ok
Jun 28 22:18:16 <peepsalot> they should come up with better names for this stuff
Jun 28 22:18:19 <Datasurfer> goodwill: I actully postponed my plans on buying. I actually like to develope the applications on a phone, but as I have a job that takes a lot of time, this could only be a few pathces. If I buy one, I want to actuallly use it, and at the moment this would rather be just a toy for me, for which I would not have enough time left.
Jun 28 22:18:24 <mjr> rtfhttp://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jun 28 22:18:54 <peepsalot> mjr, i did read that, but it's still confusing
Jun 28 22:19:48 <goodwill> Datasurfer: I am gonna get one....I think with fso and python it will go fast in dev
Jun 28 22:21:22 <Datasurfer> goodwill: I really hope so. If I was still a student I would buy one. Now I have to wait until the phone is usable for me. Than I will gladly implement features that I need.
Jun 28 22:22:01 <goodwill> Datasurfer: I have a crappy phone because rather frankly none of the phones do what I want them too anyways
Jun 28 22:22:13 <goodwill> Datasurfer: I was really waiting for this for a while
Jun 28 22:23:23 <jOERG> goodwill: so wait for another 4 weeks! here will be an explosion of fixes and new apps, once the FR is in hands of community :-)
Jun 28 22:24:19 <LionKMP> and once someone fixes the wiki :-p
Jun 28 22:24:33 <LionKMP> I think many people does not know where to start.
Jun 28 22:24:44 <jOERG> goodwill: sorry, was addressed to datasurfer
Jun 28 22:25:48 <goodwill> Datasurfer: I think this is a good time
Jun 28 22:26:32 <jOERG> LionKMP: yes, wki is somewhat confusing. But seems to augment rapidly last days
Jun 28 22:26:38 <goodwill> Datasurfer: you can put it on your resume ;)
Jun 28 22:28:55 <Ainulindale> Datasurfer: false excuse ! I have a job too, and I will gladly enjoy toying with it :-)
Jun 28 22:29:05 <Ainulindale> (meaning the phone, not my job of course)
Jun 28 22:29:22 <LionKMP> :D
Jun 28 22:31:50 <goodwill> though I admit its highly confusing
Jun 28 22:32:00 <goodwill> really need more info
Jun 28 22:33:43 <goodwill> for example I've to manage to install a package
Jun 28 22:33:56 <goodwill> I kinbda knwo how, but no good instructions
Jun 28 22:34:07 <Datasurfer> goodwill: I actually have only little time to work on the phone. I need a phone that works and than I can inplement features that are missing for me. But openmoko still fees "too early" for what I need
Jun 28 22:35:28 <jOERG> datasurfer: it actually IS too early! Your needs sound to me like enduser. this is developer release
Jun 28 22:35:34 <Datasurfer> Ainulindale: Ok, I have a job and important changes in my private life, that are taking most of my free time. And as I have my own company I am pretty much always @work :-)
Jun 28 22:36:03 <goodwill> Datasurfer: I think we were just teasing you
Jun 28 22:36:13 <goodwill> one thing for sure...no more orange
Jun 28 22:36:13 <goodwill> !!!
Jun 28 22:36:27 <Datasurfer> jOERG: Yes, it is somewhat between enduser and dev, but more to the enduser end *g*
Jun 28 22:37:14 <jOERG> nope, clearly not. there's NO app yet that might meet the endusers needs
Jun 28 22:38:01 <jOERG> at least phone related app
Jun 28 22:38:04 <Datasurfer> but still this evening has given me a good impression of where openmoko is now. And it is actually not too far away from what I need
Jun 28 22:38:30 <jOERG> sure. I tld you: wait another 4 weeks ;-)
Jun 28 22:38:48 <Datasurfer> 4 weeks?
Jun 28 22:39:18 <jOERG> well that's what I guess it takes to deug the "basic" apps to a "enduser" state
Jun 28 22:39:40 <jOERG> ...driven by community 
Jun 28 22:40:07 <SpeedEvil> The fundamental problem is there is no community cooperation.
Jun 28 22:40:11 <jOERG> first FR actually out in the wild by now
Jun 28 22:40:36 <SpeedEvil> Large blocks of code get dropped down from the sky with no consultation or notice.
Jun 28 22:41:23 <SpeedEvil> Which tends to inhibit development.
Jun 28 22:41:29 <SpeedEvil> community development.
Jun 28 22:42:08 <jOERG> these large blocks are the stepstones (middleware, dbus) community is going to build their apps upon
Jun 28 22:43:09 <jOERG> see mickeyl's blog on FSO
Jun 28 22:43:56 <jOERG> http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/
Jun 28 22:44:00 <zedstar> i think speedevil is referring to those projects like spinter, diversity, assasin and other daft names which came out the blue
Jun 28 22:44:40 <Datasurfer> jOERG: was that ASU you were talking about "four weeks" ?
Jun 28 22:45:00 <Ainulindale> jOERG: What do you call "phone related apps" that could "meet the endusers needs" ?
Jun 28 22:45:09 <Ainulindale> Something like... erm... phoning ? :-)
Jun 28 22:45:44 <jOERG> make a call, send and receive sms, contacts... the usual phone jobs
Jun 28 22:45:51 <Ainulindale> Personally, I bought the freerunner more as a toy with phone abilities :-)
Jun 28 22:45:58 <Ainulindale> Yep, but you can make calls right now
Jun 28 22:46:05 <Ainulindale> Or else I've been tricked :-)
Jun 28 22:46:31 <jOERG> yep you *can*, but it's not yet "enduser"
Jun 28 22:46:38 <Ainulindale> Meaning ?
Jun 28 22:47:16 <jOERG> ah, too many little annoyances. Try "*#61#" for example
Jun 28 22:47:26 <Ainulindale> Which would do ?
Jun 28 22:47:47 <jOERG> I'm sure you're able to find out ;-)
Jun 28 22:47:58 <Ainulindale> Nope, I don't have a freerunner yet :-p
Jun 28 22:48:38 <Ainulindale> And besides, I mostly use my current phone to call and receive SMS, nothing more... Needs which I hope will be fulfilled by the freerunner.
Jun 28 22:48:43 <jOERG> so, simply it doesn't work yet, to best of my knowledge, on any of the dialer apps
Jun 28 22:48:57 <Ainulindale> And what is it supposed to do ?
Jun 28 22:49:15 <jOERG> I'm sure you're able to find out ;-)
Jun 28 22:49:21 <Ainulindale> T-t-t =)
Jun 28 22:50:11 <jOERG> bye
Jun 28 22:59:38 <goodwill> ok, my first attempt to do qemu networking using usb gadget as recommended by the wiki locked up my computer
Jun 28 23:00:22 <goodwill> me sad
Jun 28 23:00:54 <Datasurfer> lol
Jun 28 23:02:13 <Datasurfer> goodwill: did you try this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Simple_network_connection_with_pppd ?
Jun 28 23:04:40 <_ferric> em.  so we still don't know if FR will be able to make calls etc.?
Jun 28 23:04:52 <SpeedEvil> It can make calls now.
Jun 28 23:05:01 <SpeedEvil> With the right image.
Jun 28 23:05:06 <goodwill> Datasurfer: have not tried that
Jun 28 23:05:27 <goodwill> SpeedEvil: which image?
Jun 28 23:06:16 <SpeedEvil> I don't know, I don't have a FR, so have not been keeping up.
Jun 28 23:07:32 <Dave> What were you talking about? :p
Jun 28 23:07:44 <_ferric> SE: the 'right image' being ASU?
Jun 28 23:07:52 <Dave> Oh, and hello Ainulindale :)
Jun 28 23:07:54 <_ferric> SE: have you been able to use your GTA01 to make calls?
Jun 28 23:07:57 <SpeedEvil> No - the right image being builds where it works.
Jun 28 23:08:02 <SpeedEvil> _ferric: yes.
Jun 28 23:08:04 <Dave> Ah.
Jun 28 23:08:09 <_ferric> SE: sweet.
Jun 28 23:08:11 <SpeedEvil> _ferric: I use it as my usual phone
Jun 28 23:08:19 <_ferric> SE: very nice.
Jun 28 23:08:33 <_ferric> SE: what build are you running? rwhitby's MokoMakefile thiny?
Jun 28 23:08:44 <SpeedEvil> Some scaredycat image.
Jun 28 23:08:50 <_ferric> ah
Jun 28 23:09:04 <_ferric> SE: are you going to get an F?
Jun 28 23:09:07 <_ferric> er, a FR?
Jun 28 23:09:12 <rwhitby> mokomakefile can build a number of different images
Jun 28 23:09:16 <goodwill> abbreviation galore
Jun 28 23:09:21 <balrog-k1n> according to everyone one the mailing lists the fso images can make calls reliably
Jun 28 23:09:47 <SpeedEvil> I cannot at this time - due to other commitments. Just spent the small amount I had saved on roof repair materials.
Jun 28 23:09:49 <_ferric> rwhitby: sorry, last time I looked at mokomakefile was over a year ago.
Jun 28 23:10:11 <_ferric> SE: LOL. I agree with your priorities.
Jun 28 23:10:12 <SpeedEvil> Currently on benefits, so not much spare cash.
Jun 28 23:10:34 <balrog-k1n> over a year ago the neo1973 could make calls too
Jun 28 23:10:39 <balrog-k1n> just less reliably
Jun 28 23:11:20 <_ferric> hm, i couldn't get my 01 to make calls at all. but admittedly, i didn't try too hard.
Jun 28 23:11:55 <goodwill> rwhitby: thank you for the makefile. Its the only thing taht kept me sane while I was trying to figure out hwo to do qemu
Jun 28 23:12:25 <Dave> :]
Jun 28 23:18:47 <goodwill> in case someone is wondering on a 2 core 2.8 processor with downloading it takes  and halff hours to compiel the devel-image
Jun 28 23:19:40 <Dave> goodwill, you're building your own image... what did you expect?
Jun 28 23:19:59 <goodwill> Datasurfer: that was just an FYI item
Jun 28 23:20:06 <goodwill> in case someone was planning to do the same
Jun 28 23:20:19 <goodwill> Datasurfer: it was nto a complain
Jun 28 23:20:25 <goodwill> Datasurfer: it builds all the packages
Jun 28 23:20:49 <goodwill> personally I wonder if its necessary to build all the packages
Jun 28 23:20:53 <goodwill> seems like too many
Jun 28 23:22:28 <Datasurfer> goodwill: no of course, I was just thinking this might help you :-)
Jun 28 23:29:04 <goodwill> the root password is noexistant in qemu
Jun 28 23:29:19 <goodwill> Datasurfer: so using ppd it works
Jun 28 23:29:28 <goodwill> Datasurfer: its a bit dorky, but it works
Jun 28 23:29:49 <goodwill> I can actually use the command line now
Jun 28 23:30:25 <Datasurfer> nice
Jun 28 23:31:29 <goodwill> Datasurfer: thank you
Jun 29 00:10:10 <goodwill> wooohoo, we have forwarding and dns lookup
Jun 29 00:10:35 <abraxa_> Congrats :)
Jun 29 00:11:27 <goodwill> wooohooo google from qemu-ed openmoko
Jun 29 00:12:02 <goodwill> let see, maybe open moko has an irc client
Jun 29 00:12:22 <SpeedEvil> pidgin is not insane in a 640*480 screen
Jun 29 00:14:09 <goodwill> SpeedEvil: I do not think thats installed by default and I have not managed opkg yet
Jun 29 00:17:11 <goodwill> ehehe
Jun 29 00:17:14 <goodwill> browser crashed
Jun 29 00:17:48 <SpeedEvil> It's not.
Jun 29 00:17:56 <SpeedEvil> There is no friendly IRC client.
Jun 29 00:18:05 <goodwill> I can use a shell one
Jun 29 00:18:08 <goodwill> I do not cat
Jun 29 00:18:10 <SpeedEvil> telnet
Jun 29 00:18:12 <goodwill> s/cat/care
Jun 29 00:18:20 <goodwill> SpeedEvil: perv
Jun 29 00:19:19 * balrog-kun tests his uber hack on the gta02
Jun 29 00:19:47 <goodwill> balrog-kun: details?
Jun 29 00:20:45 <balrog-kun> goodwill: a hacky dyn-tick support for the s3c2442
Jun 29 00:21:11 <SpeedEvil> Oooh. Shiny.
Jun 29 00:21:31 <goodwill> balrog-kun: for reduced power management?
Jun 29 00:21:35 <balrog-kun> when i tried it an hour ago it killed the os timer and i had to touch the screen or generate usb interrupts to keep the cursor blinking
Jun 29 00:21:57 <balrog-kun> goodwill: possibly, i'm not sure
Jun 29 00:22:31 <SpeedEvil> It will do a bit for PM - not really very much compared to proper clock varying support.
Jun 29 00:22:43 <SpeedEvil> Maybe a couple of percent?
Jun 29 00:23:15 <balrog-kun> well, i ran Intel's powertop on the gta02 today and it had 300 wakeups per second
Jun 29 00:23:27 <SpeedEvil> Wakeups - sure.
Jun 29 00:23:34 <balrog-kun> this should reduce it to 100 when the accelerometer is being read and ~5 when not
Jun 29 00:24:31 <SpeedEvil> But idle power isn't hugely lower than 'on' power.
Jun 29 00:24:32 <SpeedEvil> And average CPU usage is what's important. - how long it's woked up for.
Jun 29 00:24:53 <balrog-kun> it will reduce the system timer's precision though
Jun 29 00:24:57 <goodwill> balrog-kun: powertop would help
Jun 29 00:24:59 <goodwill> oops
Jun 29 00:25:03 <goodwill> you already said it
Jun 29 00:25:33 <balrog-kun> but with it i should be able to set HZ to 10000 and be able to sleep for 100 usec
Jun 29 00:25:48 <balrog-kun> currently the shortest time you can sleep is 5 msec
Jun 29 00:25:53 <SpeedEvil> That might save power, yes.
Jun 29 00:25:58 <SpeedEvil> Busy wait is bad.
Jun 29 00:26:50 <balrog-kun> on s3c i guess it won't make that much difference in power consumption
Jun 29 00:26:57 <balrog-kun> on OMAPs it makes a huge difference
Jun 29 00:27:15 <goodwill> openmoko-appmanager segfaulting
Jun 29 00:27:23 <goodwill> time to try to opkg something
Jun 29 00:27:32 <SpeedEvil> On s3c, you really want to go to slower CPU
Jun 29 00:27:56 <balrog-kun> but then OMAPs have like 5 power states and can switch automatically between them
Jun 29 00:52:31 <`pwgen`> mwester: ping
Jun 29 00:54:37 * mwester hears the sound of someone tapping on glass window panes under very high stress...
Jun 29 00:55:08 <mwester> Greetings and Salutations, `pwgen`
Jun 29 00:57:09 <`pwgen`> mwester: i tried to compile linux-openmoko-devel: it faild, after enableing touchscreen filter support , it worked ( compile ) 
Jun 29 00:58:19 <mwester> I just got some free time today; the kernel seems to have gotten into a bad state :(
Jun 29 00:59:29 <mwester> I noticed that problem; updating the defconfig will fix it so it builds, but I'm having other problems with the kernel (at least on the GTA01, haven't looked at the GTA02 yet).
Jun 29 00:59:44 <`pwgen`> another problem i had with an version 2 days ago was, after some time access to /proc/meminfo will result in segfault . 
Jun 29 01:00:21 <SpeedEvil> i had problems with occasional segfaults, which I fixed a stupid way.
Jun 29 01:00:32 <SpeedEvil> (swapon /media/card/swap)
Jun 29 01:01:22 <`pwgen`> oh , no  i killed some cf cards by doing swap on them (:-((
Jun 29 01:01:35 <mwester> opkg segfaulted always for me; turns out that reading /proc/meminfo was causing a null pointer in the kernel -- 
Jun 29 01:01:49 <SpeedEvil> `pwgen`: what sort of cards?
Jun 29 01:01:54 <mwester> I'm trying to go backwards to find where that broke too.
Jun 29 01:02:02 <`pwgen`> this problem appears after some time 
Jun 29 01:02:31 <`pwgen`> damm 2 hours ago u had the sources .. deleted , cause missing space ..
Jun 29 01:02:49 <`pwgen`> but i have the git revid
Jun 29 01:03:44 <`pwgen`> uImage-2.6.24+git2+9250c1fc7d6~6748490a55d61e-r0-om-gta01.bin
Jun 29 01:04:11 <`pwgen`> cards i used in an old ipaq h3600 log time ago 
Jun 29 01:04:36 <SpeedEvil> `pwgen`: write numbers have gotten better.
Jun 29 01:05:10 <nezza-_-> anybody experiences with the frogpad?
Jun 29 01:05:54 <`pwgen`> it was an flash related problem, i dont know if thos problem exist for modern cards , my old cf was 512 mb .. growing smaller ...
Jun 29 01:06:46 <`pwgen`> i think swapping on an iscsi target should work in devel environment
Jun 29 01:06:49 <SpeedEvil> `pwgen`: write endurances have gone way up.
Jun 29 01:07:13 <SpeedEvil> `pwgen`: and write leveling has gotten better
Jun 29 01:08:16 <`pwgen`> have you tested swapping with a file (  mounted  with ext2 )
Jun 29 01:08:25 <SpeedEvil> That's what I've been doing
Jun 29 01:09:18 <`pwgen`> mwester: whats about the idea to add /proc/config.gz support to the devel kernel ?
Jun 29 01:10:57 <mwester> Makes much sense to me - andy green is often speculating that config changes are the reason he can't see issues we see in the field; I think that enabling that, and requiring that it be added to each bug report affecting the kernel, would faciliate debug.
Jun 29 01:11:17 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Jun 29 01:11:37 <SpeedEvil> Pity there is no nice patch reporting in /proc/config.gz
Jun 29 01:13:27 <mwester> For the rootfs, we can get that indirectly from the opkg database, unless the user didn't bump the PR info when they patched and built.  For the kernel, that sure would be nice.
Jun 29 01:13:58 <mwester> I wonder if there's a way we can at least force a git ID string into the kernel somewhere.
Jun 29 01:13:58 <SpeedEvil> Yeah. I proposed something way back on the kernel ml, but nothing came of it.
Jun 29 01:14:15 <SpeedEvil> EXTRAVERSION
Jun 29 01:14:53 <mwester> er... yeah.  That'd do it -- but would that mess up module versioning?
Jun 29 01:14:59 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jun 29 01:15:01 <rwhitby> yeah, that's the problem
Jun 29 01:15:01 <`pwgen`> i build a kernel without the whole debugging code and bootsplash enabled , the suspen/resume cycle seeme the run faster 
Jun 29 01:15:20 <rwhitby> put you could put it in the email address that gets compiled into the kernel, or something like that.
Jun 29 01:15:25 <SpeedEvil> It'd mean that you could only run kernels with the matching modules.
Jun 29 01:15:38 <SpeedEvil> But aren't they compiled at the same time normally?
Jun 29 01:16:03 <mwester> rwhitby:  That sounds like a winner - versionid@buildhost would work.
Jun 29 01:16:09 <`pwgen`> maybe adding version support will enable handle diffrent  modules for the same kernel release .
Jun 29 01:17:08 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  They are compiled, but it is rather common for some folks to flash different kernels while leaving the rootfs alone.   That would require a no-modules sort of kernel...
Jun 29 01:17:15 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 29 01:18:34 <`pwgen`> its the localversion under General setup will enable someing like /lib/module/2.4.2-fso-0-1 
Jun 29 01:19:14 <mwester> I think the EXTRAVERSION might be sound once the kernel stabilizes, but until then I suspect the path of least resistance would be to stick an identifier in the email; there's no way the OM devs will be doing anything to mess with their rootfs'
Jun 29 01:28:17 <SpeedEvil> Ah - hadn't investigated. Yes, the email field would be trivial. You could even frob scripts/mkcompile_h to drop a GIT version in there
Jun 29 01:43:57 <`pwgen`> why are the sound drivers modules, and they are not static 
Jun 29 01:44:41 <`pwgen`> power managment ? 
Jun 29 01:48:14 * balrog-kun would also like to know that
Jun 29 01:49:23 * mwester has no idea, and notices that there are different defconfigs floating about where that is not the case
Jun 29 01:50:47 <`pwgen`> is see same defconfig with modules enabled for SoC gta01 and gta02 
Jun 29 01:53:45 <linuxxr> http://www.e-linux.it/news_detail.php?id=5652
Jun 29 01:54:01 <linuxxr> here it says 400mhz also
Jun 29 01:59:24 <linuxxr> so the 500mhz story was a misprint i take it
Jun 29 01:59:41 <balrog-kun> you can run it at 500MHz if you like
Jun 29 01:59:53 <balrog-kun> you'll need to tune some clocks to avoid screen flicker though
Jun 29 02:01:52 <SpeedEvil> It will also lower battery life.
Jun 29 02:05:20 <sybesis> rawrrr
Jun 29 02:05:25 <linuxxr> i c
Jun 29 02:05:42 <hon> how can I get the toolchain? is there a debian package for that?
Jun 29 02:05:52 <linuxxr> 333mhz would increase batt life then
Jun 29 02:06:31 <balrog-kun> maybe
Jun 29 02:06:44 <linuxxr> when the usa store gonna open--- tonight?
Jun 29 02:07:00 <linuxxr> please
Jun 29 02:07:17 <SpeedEvil> linuxxr: it's complex - you want it fast enough so that it doesn't maek the user wait, but you don't want it faster than that.
Jun 29 02:07:32 <Dave> hon, no, but you can fairly easily create one from the offered source package :)
Jun 29 02:07:55 <Dave> Speed, right, just so that it doesn't lag :)
Jun 29 02:07:57 <hon> is ipkh a derivative of dpkg?
Jun 29 02:07:58 <SpeedEvil> d: see 
Jun 29 02:08:00 <SpeedEvil> oohttp://www3.telus.net/public/a5a26316/TIG_Welder.htmlps.
Jun 29 02:08:01 <hon> ipkg
Jun 29 02:08:20 <Dave> heh, seems like, doesn't it? :)
Jun 29 02:08:20 <linuxxr> autospeed controll maybe?
Jun 29 02:08:27 <Dave> hah, autospeed.
Jun 29 02:08:33 <Dave> Engage!
Jun 29 02:08:49 <linuxxr> like intels speedstep
Jun 29 02:08:55 <hon> also, what is the most recent hardware that I can buy? (as a developer. I do not expect general/public fool proof hardware)
Jun 29 02:09:22 <linuxxr> throttle up
Jun 29 02:09:39 <linuxxr> gta03
Jun 29 02:10:01 <hon> does it have any accelerometers?
Jun 29 02:10:20 <linuxxr> speedevil knows all
Jun 29 02:10:29 <SpeedEvil> Yes, GTA02 has two accels
Jun 29 02:10:44 <SpeedEvil> And that's the only hardware you can buy
Jun 29 02:10:47 <hon> what about GTA03?
Jun 29 02:10:51 <SpeedEvil> (well - barring ebay)
Jun 29 02:10:54 <SpeedEvil> Not even produced yet
Jun 29 02:11:06 <SpeedEvil> Maybe not frozen design even.
Jun 29 02:11:41 <Dave> heh
Jun 29 02:11:59 <hon> what are the new sensing hardware added to GTA03? will it have digital compass?
Jun 29 02:12:00 <linuxxr> ebay debug board   -buts thats going backwards
Jun 29 02:12:05 <SpeedEvil> hon: no
Jun 29 02:12:18 <hon> what about gps?
Jun 29 02:12:20 <SpeedEvil> camera and some buttons added
Jun 29 02:12:34 <linuxxr> kill the buttons
Jun 29 02:12:35 <SpeedEvil> Glamo removed
Jun 29 02:12:42 <SpeedEvil> everything stays the same otherwise.
Jun 29 02:12:56 <hon> do these devices have touch screens?
Jun 29 02:12:56 <linuxxr> what replaces glamo?
Jun 29 02:12:58 <SpeedEvil> (compared to 2)
Jun 29 02:13:01 <SpeedEvil> linuxxr: nothing
Jun 29 02:13:07 <SpeedEvil> linuxxr: raw framebuffer
Jun 29 02:13:14 <linuxxr> fassster
Jun 29 02:13:32 <SpeedEvil> linuxxr: same as GTA01
Jun 29 02:13:37 <hon> what was glamo?
Jun 29 02:13:51 <hon> an open gl implementation?
Jun 29 02:14:00 <sybesis> anyone knows how to use openmoko with qemu but without gcc 3.4
Jun 29 02:14:01 <SpeedEvil> hon: no
Jun 29 02:14:08 <sybesis> gcc 3.4 isn't in my repo
Jun 29 02:14:12 <Dave> you need the libs
Jun 29 02:14:13 <SpeedEvil> hon: a horrible closed GPU thingy with all sorts of limits.
Jun 29 02:14:24 <Dave> :D
Jun 29 02:15:06 <hon> is there any plan to add a digital compass in the future?
Jun 29 02:15:36 <SpeedEvil> No.
Jun 29 02:16:06 <sybesis> SpeedEvil: this mean we could manually add our camera by hand?
Jun 29 02:16:17 <sybesis> SpeedEvil: the board will be the same?
Jun 29 02:16:36 <SpeedEvil> sybesis: no
Jun 29 02:16:42 <hon> where can I buy a few GTA02's from?
Jun 29 02:16:46 <SpeedEvil> sybesis: completely - well - largely - different board
Jun 29 02:16:59 <SpeedEvil> hon: wait till US store opens
Jun 29 02:17:15 <SpeedEvil> hon: you need the 850MHz ones prolly in canadialand.
Jun 29 02:17:18 <balrog-kun> sybesis: you could try to rebase the qemu-neo1973 on upstream qemu's SVN tree
Jun 29 02:17:29 <balrog-kun> there's a chance that it would build and run with gcc4
Jun 29 02:17:42 <sybesis> i see
Jun 29 02:17:46 <hon> when should I expect the store to open?
Jun 29 02:18:13 * SpeedEvil checks his clothes, and finds he's accidentally put on the magic-8-ball suit.
Jun 29 02:19:07 <hon> is there any kind of rough estimation for that?
Jun 29 02:19:22 <hon> like "early $YEAR"
Jun 29 02:19:24 <hon> :D
Jun 29 02:20:02 <SpeedEvil> I would be moderately surprised if it's not up in a week.
Jun 29 02:20:11 <hon> oh. great.
Jun 29 02:20:12 <SpeedEvil> But, I have no inside knowledge.
Jun 29 02:20:37 <SpeedEvil> I don't know if any have even been made yet for the US market.
Jun 29 02:21:16 <rwhitby> There's a report of Jul 7 on the mailing list from someone at OM
Jun 29 02:21:38 <hon> do they also sell (at the store) the equipment that allows us to do development on it?
Jun 29 02:22:40 <rwhitby> no special equipment is required
Jun 29 02:23:02 <balrog-kun> they sell the debug board, which can be helpful
Jun 29 02:23:08 <rwhitby> you only need the debug board for u-boot development
Jun 29 02:23:15 <rwhitby> or very low level kernel development
Jun 29 02:23:17 * balrog-kun is getting some help from the debug board in this moment
Jun 29 02:23:31 <linuxxr> but will u get a gta02 debugboard?
Jun 29 02:23:38 <linuxxr> or 03?
Jun 29 02:23:43 <Dave> :P
Jun 29 02:23:48 <Dave> v03
Jun 29 02:23:52 <hon> do they sell the debug board at the store?
Jun 29 02:24:28 <balrog-kun> yes, hon
Jun 29 02:24:36 <hon> thanks guys :)
Jun 29 02:24:44 * balrog-kun is happy his ex-gf doesn't know he's calling somebody else hon
Jun 29 02:24:56 * Dave rolls his eyes
Jun 29 02:25:00 * hon had enough of being raped by iphone SDKs ...
Jun 29 02:25:09 <rwhitby> why do you care what your *ex* gf thinks?
Jun 29 02:25:09 <Dave> :D
Jun 29 02:25:26 <Dave> haha, yeah -- that too :P
Jun 29 02:25:27 <linuxxr> still loves her?
Jun 29 02:25:28 <hon> I guess I have to finally change my nick to something more "modest" :D
Jun 29 02:26:07 <balrog-kun> it's complex matter :p
Jun 29 02:26:18 <linuxxr> is too
Jun 29 02:26:41 <linuxxr> sos is the debug board a v2 or v3
Jun 29 02:27:00 <balrog-kun> the one sold with gta02 is v3 i think
Jun 29 02:27:10 <linuxxr> alright
Jun 29 02:29:10 <Dave> yes
Jun 29 02:33:05 <sybesis> actually how does 3d is interpreted with openmoko
Jun 29 02:33:16 <sybesis> 100% software?
Jun 29 02:36:58 <Dave> hey sybesis :P
Jun 29 02:37:18 <sybesis> hi there
Jun 29 02:40:13 <sybesis> i'm doomed gcc 3.4 isn't in my repos and qemu does need (upstream version too)
Jun 29 02:41:36 <balrog-kun> sybesis: is your host x86 or x86_64?
Jun 29 02:41:56 <sybesis> x86
Jun 29 02:42:02 <balrog-kun> upstream doesn't need gcc3
Jun 29 02:42:16 <balrog-kun> x86_64 hosts also don't need gcc3
Jun 29 02:42:20 <sybesis> i may miss something
Jun 29 02:42:47 <sybesis>  gen-icount.h: Нет такого файла или каталога
Jun 29 02:42:51 <sybesis> this file is missing
Jun 29 02:56:11 <balrog-kun> gen-icount.h?
Jun 29 02:56:25 <balrog-kun> ohh
Jun 29 02:56:28 <balrog-kun> indeed
Jun 29 02:56:59 <sybesis> is it supposed to be in kernel header or something
Jun 29 02:57:21 <balrog-kun> nope, it's supposed to be a part of qemu now... i think...
Jun 29 02:57:47 <balrog-kun> i've never seen this file before and i just looked at the recent commits and the error must be cause be a commit made 1h ago
Jun 29 02:58:03 <balrog-kun> paul brook just made a pretty big merge
Jun 29 02:58:08 <sybesis> i see
Jun 29 02:58:17 <sybesis> i'll pick a previous revision then
Jun 29 02:58:42 <balrog-kun> yep, a 3h ago snapshot would have worked i'm sure :p
Jun 29 02:58:55 <balrog-kun> the neo1973 tree is quite outdated though
Jun 29 02:59:07 <balrog-kun> bringing it in line with head will take some work
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 29 02:59:56 2008