**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 29 02:59:56 2008 Jun 29 03:00:12 is there any specific modification to the qemu of openmoko Jun 29 03:00:44 all the neo1973 hardware (cpu and a ton of peripherals) Jun 29 03:02:44 ok i see Jun 29 03:09:57 i give up for now Jun 29 03:10:45 * balrog-kun leaves linux running with dyn_tick on the Neo and goes to sleep Jun 29 03:11:08 good night Jun 29 03:13:50 isn't dyn-tick default by now? Jun 29 03:14:32 balrog-kun: which repo is involved Jun 29 03:57:20 ok so package installation is not complicated Jun 29 03:57:43 repos seems to be specified in /etc/opkg Jun 29 03:58:01 and opkg is comparebale to yum or what not Jun 29 04:00:57 hmm midnight commander does not seem to be a package Jun 29 04:07:41 heh Jun 29 04:18:04 appmanager2 is depricated Jun 29 04:18:07 it seems Jun 29 04:18:15 at least its not in the packages Jun 29 04:18:21 what exactly replaced it Jun 29 04:18:26 an interface to packagekit Jun 29 04:18:47 but I have no idea what its called Jun 29 04:34:27 ok, I am starting to understand this on a user level mor or less Jun 29 04:37:30 God :p Jun 29 04:37:37 Good Jun 29 04:37:47 is it all installing it in flash Jun 29 04:37:56 I though flash was like 256 mb Jun 29 04:38:02 ehehhe Jun 29 04:38:08 opkg: write: No space left on device Jun 29 04:50:01 sorry if this has been answered or is even a non-issue at this point, but why not just have open software for the phone, and the standard gsm architecture of the cellular communications aspect of the phone? Jun 29 04:51:44 I don't understand the question Jun 29 04:51:51 It is open software? Jun 29 04:52:08 sorry about that Jun 29 04:52:48 what I meant is, isn't the hold up due to configuring the cellular phone operation of open moko as opposed to the open source OS? Jun 29 04:54:13 There's a hold-up? :) Jun 29 04:55:01 * Sonicadvance1 hasn't heard of any hold up Jun 29 04:55:13 not according to steve jobs there isn't Jun 29 04:55:25 There's no problem communicating with the gsm chip, but work is still being done on the "glue" between the interface and the actual modem. Jun 29 04:55:40 Steve Jobs has been talking about the Freerunner? Jun 29 04:55:59 But phone calls are already working. Jun 29 04:56:07 And have been for a long time. Jun 29 04:56:14 I'm sure he will be when this mythical beast actually can be used for the masses Jun 29 04:56:27 <_ferric> no, I doubt that, yo_ Jun 29 04:56:38 Question: Anyone know if there exist a VMWare version of the OpenMoko Os ? Jun 29 04:56:38 I rather doubt the masses will be using this phone. Jun 29 04:57:08 Well, he hasn't said a word about HTC touch... or LG viewty/prada, or any other smartphone.. so I don't see why. Jun 29 04:57:10 ferric: you think openmoko will be that complicated? Jun 29 04:57:49 <_ferric> yo_: it's not about being complicated, FIC hardware/software is not ready for the kind of production that the iPhone is seeing, for example. Jun 29 04:58:04 <_ferric> and I'm not even sure that's the target market for now, either. Jun 29 04:58:14 Complicated has little to do with it; it's basically the target market is rather different. Jun 29 04:58:34 * _ferric nods. Jun 29 04:59:11 who is the target market? so-called power users? Jun 29 04:59:25 look at Ubuntu. It took off, no? Jun 29 04:59:40 <_ferric> target market is DIY hackers. Jun 29 04:59:49 There's no nice simple term for the market; basically it's *not* intended for the appliance operators. Jun 29 04:59:49 <_ferric> or, people that care about an open phone. Jun 29 05:00:25 The phone will probably be easy to use for anyone, even non-hackers, it's just that the distribution is somewhat out of the ordinary, compared to regular phones. Jun 29 05:00:34 And, no Ubuntu did *not* take off in the same way the iphone did; you can't buy a PC with Ubuntu pre-installed at the local technology outlet! Jun 29 05:00:45 :D Jun 29 05:00:54 mwester: sure you can. Jun 29 05:00:55 walmart had them Jun 29 05:01:00 that's right Jun 29 05:01:09 might still order 1 Jun 29 05:01:10 mwester: You may not go with Ubuntu but the EEEPC now ships with linux by default Jun 29 05:01:10 I'm sure some savvy non-tech users will find it, but the exclusive online distribution and lack of carrier connections makes it hard to find for the average user. Jun 29 05:01:12 Sure they do. Jun 29 05:01:37 they do in Chicago Jun 29 05:01:48 Cyph3r-g[_]y: that's my point exactly; the EEEPC is not by any means a "mail-line" device. Jun 29 05:01:54 just use slackware an get over it Jun 29 05:01:56 er, "main-line" Jun 29 05:01:57 * Sonicadvance1 has an eee pc Jun 29 05:02:03 get over what? Jun 29 05:02:11 ubuntu Jun 29 05:02:12 SuN: what's the deal with that? why is there a lack? Jun 29 05:02:14 mwester: What do you mean by "mail-line" ?\ Jun 29 05:02:26 er, "main-line" Jun 29 05:02:47 yo_: well, it's not really a lack, I guess. But there won't be any major carriers that will distribute the phone. Jun 29 05:02:57 might too Jun 29 05:03:03 touche Jun 29 05:03:10 Very small chance, I'd say. Jun 29 05:03:21 yes, quite small Jun 29 05:03:31 so if I want to take it to Europe? Jun 29 05:03:41 somebody that wants to step on the iphone Jun 29 05:03:41 It's a tri-band. Jun 29 05:03:53 mwester: Well it actualy is _here_ i have met well over 100 people that own an EEE and use it as their primary system for Chatting, Facebook and the basics. And these are NON TECHS, these are people who get blatenly confused with how to shutdown windows... Jun 29 05:04:12 yay Jun 29 05:04:25 The Eee is carried by consumer electronics stores here, which pretty much makes it a mainline device to me. Jun 29 05:04:29 Cyph3r-g[_]y: I don't know where "here" is for you, but it sure isnt' something you see on the commuter train on the way into Chicago. Jun 29 05:04:40 if u learn linux fron the start whats the problem? Jun 29 05:04:41 mwester: Calgary, AB, Canada Jun 29 05:04:41 mwester: Jun 29 05:04:47 Maybe Chicago is just very backward. Jun 29 05:04:47 :D Jun 29 05:04:50 lol Jun 29 05:04:51 Cyph3r-g[_]y: there is no vmware image because vmware does not emulate neo hardware Jun 29 05:04:59 SuN: I saw someone in Grayslake, IL with one Jun 29 05:05:14 Cyph3r-g[_]y: also you can compile all the software for i686 amd rim it in Xnest Jun 29 05:05:17 and they are purposefully more backware than the Crilla, ya dig? Jun 29 05:05:22 * mwester grows tired of word games, with folks who just want to live in the delusion that Linux will win over Windows, and OM will beat the iphone. Jun 29 05:05:27 goodwill: Thanks! Do you know if theres a plan to develop an emulator. Jun 29 05:05:39 Cyph3r-g[_]y: there is an emulator already Jun 29 05:05:42 mwester: I never said it would win over windows... Jun 29 05:05:49 Cyph3r-g[_]y: modified qemu Jun 29 05:05:50 mwester: atleast not yet :P Jun 29 05:05:56 right. there is an emulator Jun 29 05:06:04 Cyph3r-g[_]y: it works for neo1973 and with some hacks for freerunner Jun 29 05:06:06 I saw it at the OSCON of 2007 Jun 29 05:06:07 goodwill: Thank you, do you know where i can get a copy ? Jun 29 05:06:13 mwester: well, I guess there's no such thing as winning, but a consumer electronics store in my city putting a real LInux machine on display is something quite new. Jun 29 05:06:31 A computer, that is, because I guess most of their routers run Linux anyway. Jun 29 05:06:34 Cyph3r-g[_]y: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu Jun 29 05:06:41 goodwill: Thanks! Jun 29 05:06:46 Cyph3r-g[_]y: though I suggest using mokomakefile Jun 29 05:06:50 Cyph3r-g[_]y: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile Jun 29 05:07:13 Cyph3r-g[_]y: keep in mind the official images it downloads are built automatically Jun 29 05:07:25 goodwill: thanks! Jun 29 05:07:29 Cyph3r-g[_]y: so they might not function...but there are some recommended ones Jun 29 05:07:53 Cyph3r-g[_]y: I believe the wiki was updated today with how to get it running Jun 29 05:08:23 Cyph3r-g[_]y: also read this: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jun 29 05:08:28 I'll tell you this. the openmoko room is much nicer than ubuntu. those cats will ban you for no good reason Jun 29 05:08:50 LOL! Jun 29 05:09:00 yo_: well #openmoko tends to have the dev crowd.... Jun 29 05:09:20 that's a good thing. Jun 29 05:09:31 n00bs here are usually not computr n00bs, just openmoko n00bs like me Jun 29 05:10:24 One thing most people forget is at one point they were n00bs, so be nice to them :P Jun 29 05:10:40 makes sense to me Jun 29 05:11:20 There's this slight nuance between being a n00b and being unable to read a simple webpage, though :D Jun 29 05:12:05 there's also a subtle nuance between sarcasm and wit Jun 29 05:12:12 ;) Jun 29 05:12:35 I'm off to read some webpages. thanks all for the info Jun 29 05:16:33 <_ferric> heh. Jun 29 05:16:39 * _ferric sighs. Jun 29 05:16:56 _ferric: what troubles you old soul? Jun 29 05:21:30 so if built in flash is 256Mb Jun 29 05:21:52 and thats where root mounts how can I install more software for it Jun 29 05:21:56 it runs out of space Jun 29 05:22:01 hmmm Jun 29 05:22:11 I wonder what the problem with sd boot is Jun 29 05:29:25 You need the right uboot to boot from it in the first place, and I hear that attempting to resume from suspend will fail. Jun 29 05:30:28 There was nifty ipkg installer that could install to the sd card, and put sym links in the rootfs -- but that seemed to be lost when the image switched to opkg. ;( Jun 29 05:30:52 hmm Jun 29 05:31:40 yeah I am reading about the uboot on the wiki now...and I have heard about the resume issue, trying to find the track deffect on it now Jun 29 05:33:20 mwester: I kind thought mounting /usr on the sd might actually be an alternative Jun 29 05:33:35 mwester: base system on flash, the rest on sd Jun 29 05:35:48 mwester: maybe I can just rsyn and change fstab Jun 29 05:36:04 s/rsync/rsync Jun 29 05:38:12 Depends on what the resume problem really is, I guess. Jun 29 05:42:45 mwester: yeah Jun 29 05:43:09 mwester: which is why I am trying to locate the bug Jun 29 05:50:55 ah damn Jun 29 05:51:02 http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/7/19/420 Jun 29 05:51:11 Just to follow up, if I boot with a rootfs from elsewhere and mount the Jun 29 05:51:11 mmc card then suspend/resume, it corrupts the data on the card too so it Jun 29 05:51:11 looks like some general suspend/resume problem on mounted filesystems. Jun 29 05:51:30 Just to follow up, if I boot with a rootfs from elsewhere and mount the mmc card then suspend/resume, it corrupts the data on the card too so it looks like some general suspend/resume problem on mounted filesystems. Jun 29 05:51:36 ^^^ Jun 29 05:52:15 it seems the problem started with 2.6.22 Jun 29 06:29:18 let me ask a stupid question Jun 29 06:29:41 is correct to worry about build in flash, give how its nand and will eventually fail Jun 29 06:30:04 besides size, thats a good reason to uses a sd card Jun 29 06:30:10 cause you know those are replacable Jun 29 06:31:28 goodwill: it's more likely the phone will be out of date long before the flash starts to fail Jun 29 06:31:51 doc|home: really? cause I am planning to flash the hell out of this thing with updates and what not Jun 29 06:32:30 goodwill: your current phone uses a form of flash memory, has it failed on you yet? Jun 29 06:32:53 doc|home: but I do not flash my current phone at all Jun 29 06:33:09 ever change settings, add music, contacts...? Jun 29 06:33:10 doc|home: it mainly some small storage that taxes the flashing Jun 29 06:33:15 That's gonna store to flash too :D Jun 29 06:33:18 right Jun 29 06:34:04 but when you flash an entire os multiple time on and install packages...thats way more flash use Jun 29 06:37:01 Well. If the flash starts to fail, I would think you'd then switch to sd root... Jun 29 06:38:11 wouldn't make sense to me to not to use it at all for the fear Jun 29 06:38:35 mjr: hopefully by then it won't have resume issues Jun 29 06:39:24 yeah there was that too Jun 29 06:40:40 anyway, "cross that bridge" material Jun 29 06:41:42 if you want to stress the internal flash less (but still make use of it), you do know you can install software packages on the card also, and stuff Jun 29 06:44:40 mjr: well I am not sure I currently can Jun 29 06:44:53 mjr: fromw aht I read SD remount fails with corruption after resume Jun 29 06:45:12 mjr: so mounting /usr on sd is still not goign to be a solution Jun 29 06:45:14 oh generally? Jun 29 06:45:24 well, that's clearly a fixme then :] Jun 29 07:12:31 mjr: I am not strong in kernel foo Jun 29 07:24:07 yeah, but one wouldn't expect that to remain so for very long, or then the gta02 is rather fail :] Jun 29 08:23:30 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * read9ff785346 10/odeviced/ (6 files in 3 dirs): fix loading of input plugin Jun 29 09:36:28 what exactly is gecho Jun 29 09:36:36 I always have the make look for gecho Jun 29 09:37:25 is that likegnu echo? Jun 29 09:48:36 this is kinda odd Jun 29 09:48:44 what use is avahi daemon on openmoko Jun 29 09:50:03 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r1958a9ae7c65 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.c input.plugin input.vala): fix segfault while doing open(), plugin doesnt work yet Jun 29 09:50:37 anyone worked with /dev/rtc here? Jun 29 09:50:43 for advertising services over usb/wlan networking, perchance Jun 29 09:51:53 mjr: yeah, I find that a bit odd in a phone...but thats probably just me Jun 29 09:58:49 fso freezes up on qemu Jun 29 09:58:50 hmm Jun 29 09:58:58 also I used uboot from the official for it Jun 29 10:00:59 Sup3rkiddo: whas your SoC project? Jun 29 10:01:11 hmm. my openmoko blew a gasket during an upgrade, but before it did, i made a backup of the mtd devices. how do i mount those on my linux box? it appears cffs isn't a module on my debian machine... Jun 29 10:01:30 goodwill, odeviced Jun 29 10:05:47 Sup3rkiddo: good stuff Jun 29 10:06:15 goodwill, :P, yeah segfaults are fun Jun 29 10:06:46 Sup3rkiddo: yes...yes they are Jun 29 10:07:30 goodwill, by any chance, do you happen to have some experience with ioctls Jun 29 10:07:58 i am not able to open the rtc device...from what i know only process can use it at a time Jun 29 10:09:16 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r57a4d8be585c 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.vala): GetWakeupTime should return correctly now Jun 29 10:11:18 hi Jun 29 10:11:54 does freerunner runs Qt out of the box or still gtk? Jun 29 10:12:08 foolano: gtk Jun 29 10:12:16 foolano: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jun 29 10:15:09 ok thanks, so next question how difficult is to get the ASU stack running on freerunnger? Jun 29 10:16:03 foolano: there are images in http://downloads.openmoko.org/asu/ Jun 29 10:16:14 foolano: getting them using regular flashing Jun 29 10:16:23 foolano: but asu is still not stable from what I know Jun 29 10:16:45 foolano: do you have a freerunner? Jun 29 10:18:38 goodwill: not yet, i'm trying to make up my mind right now. I want a freerunner to hack. But I have more experience with Qt than with gtk Jun 29 10:18:59 foolano: so basically there are different stacks Jun 29 10:20:04 foolano: gtk+ the old (which is still somewhat supported), qutopia whihc is being actively focused one, which is qtopia ported to X, and fso which is the where its going to go (which is bdub, python and efl) Jun 29 10:20:16 foolano: these are parallel stacks Jun 29 10:20:34 foolano: you can run gtk and qt stuff side by side Jun 29 10:20:43 oh i see Jun 29 10:20:50 myself I am looking forward to fso Jun 29 10:22:14 if you don't mind, may i ask if i can flash the device with a new image if i buy the "normal" freerunner kit from any distributor or i need a developer version with Jtag stuff and so on to be able to do it? Jun 29 10:22:40 foolano: as far as I know you do not need a debug board Jun 29 10:23:13 foolano: all you need is a freerunner and a usb cable Jun 29 10:23:37 please note I am a relative n00b though Jun 29 10:23:57 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r954114f4f376 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.h rtc.vala): Read from wakealarm sysfs node if it is present Jun 29 10:24:19 goodwill: thanks a lot for your answer Jun 29 10:24:27 foolano: np, glad to help Jun 29 10:27:10 ok, i've gone through the web pages now. HELP! Jun 29 10:27:24 i've got an openmoko that blew up during an upgrade, badly. Jun 29 10:27:53 it boots, and pulls up a login prompt, but when i hook the debug board to it, i get nothing on the serial. Jun 29 10:28:08 when i hook up the usb, i get a cdc ethernet device, but it dosent pung. Jun 29 10:28:30 juri_: ask Sup3rkiddo, I am just a n00b Jun 29 10:28:33 i'd like to backup the firmware thats on the device with dfu-util, and place an old backup i made onto the device. Jun 29 10:29:02 i am a ub3rn00b Jun 29 10:29:03 previously, i catted all the /dev/mtd devices to my sd, so i have a backup of it at a sane state. Jun 29 10:29:14 * juri_ facepalms. Jun 29 10:29:23 i'm gonna clarify my question just in case someone else apart from goodwill wants to confirm: if i buy a normal freerunner, will i be able to flash it with an ASU image? Jun 29 10:29:26 juri_, did you upgrade uboot? Jun 29 10:29:32 foolano, yes Jun 29 10:29:40 ok thanks Jun 29 10:29:41 i have not upgraded uboot since i got the device. Jun 29 10:29:58 i'm gonna order pre-order or whatever my freerunner Jun 29 10:30:06 this is a simple 'opkg upgrade' gone wrong. Jun 29 10:30:13 oh ok Jun 29 10:30:29 so, a pure userspace problem.. but with no keyboard, i cannot fix! :P Jun 29 10:30:47 juri_, :P, ah...reflash it then ? Jun 29 10:30:51 ethernet won't let me in, serial on my jtag won't let me in.. Jun 29 10:30:59 sup3r: i need my phone numbers! Jun 29 10:31:08 i'm job hunting, and it contains vital contacts. Jun 29 10:31:31 oh :( Jun 29 10:31:31 i'd be willing to re-flash, if i could make a backup of it at its current state. Jun 29 10:31:36 (to grab my phone number file) Jun 29 10:31:54 juri_: you might to ping XorA or raster Jun 29 10:32:05 juri_, what image did it have, OM 2007.2 has a terminal app Jun 29 10:32:17 juri_, or try to boot from SD? Jun 29 10:32:33 super: how would i boot to SD? Jun 29 10:32:33 untar OM 2007.2 image to your SD and boot from that Jun 29 10:33:18 did i mention i hate your wiki? Jun 29 10:33:19 :) Jun 29 10:33:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card Jun 29 10:33:28 where would i find any information about booting to the SD? Jun 29 10:33:46 juri_, check the link i gave you, Jun 29 10:34:10 alright, thanks. Jun 29 10:34:21 juri_: just do not let you phone go into suspend, there have been know to corrupt the image on sd Jun 29 10:34:49 goodwill: will do. Jun 29 10:35:32 * Sup3rkiddo goes to shower...flies over his head and near the armpits Jun 29 10:36:51 summatus|afk: too much information Jun 29 10:36:59 oops Jun 29 10:37:12 Sup3rkiddo: : too much information Jun 29 10:37:57 =), could have been worse Jun 29 10:38:29 Sup3rkiddo: yeah, good excuse Jun 29 10:38:57 * goodwill sings the I have not got no FreeRunner blues Jun 29 10:39:59 Unusually for a mobile phone, it also includes a USB host function, meaning it can be used to power USB devices. Jun 29 10:40:09 ooh, so I ca just have a small external usb camera Jun 29 10:40:19 ok, these instructions are broken. Jun 29 10:40:31 no links to the files i need to put on the sd! Jun 29 10:40:41 not even a hint on where to get them. Jun 29 10:41:15 juri_: what files? Jun 29 10:42:12 aparently, i'm looking for a version of 2007.2? Jun 29 10:42:43 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r8bfc973ab391 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/rtc.c: rtc: Oops. add the init function Jun 29 10:42:56 sure,, theres directions on building. but the page on 2007.2 dosent point to a release, or where to get the snapshot images. Jun 29 10:43:16 you can try 2007.11 Jun 29 10:43:24 http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/ Jun 29 10:43:47 is this neo or freerunner Jun 29 10:43:48 juri_, you need to put images that end with .tar Jun 29 10:43:49 ? Jun 29 10:44:15 juri_, do you have a build system for building the images? Jun 29 10:44:20 and.. theres not one in this directory. Jun 29 10:44:50 negative. Jun 29 10:45:11 :/ Jun 29 10:45:38 if theres way to extract from .jffs2 you could try that Jun 29 10:45:49 Tri-band GSM 900 or 850/1800/1900 Jun 29 10:45:53 what does that mean Jun 29 10:46:03 what does US use? Jun 29 10:46:06 you know, for a documented procedure, this is sure undocumented as all getout. Jun 29 10:46:24 goodwill, 850 afaik Jun 29 10:51:15 2007.1 has rootfs images. 2007.2 dosent. Jun 29 10:59:13 * juri_ curses. Jun 29 11:00:51 juri_: sorry dude Jun 29 11:06:49 no backup and restore method, and no recover directions for anything resembling a recent release of the OS. Jun 29 11:13:36 ok, those directions officially don't work. 'bad magic number'. even tho the partition is formatted ext2. Jun 29 11:16:32 i've doublechecked the partition, yes, its ext2 and i can read the contents. Jun 29 11:25:19 juri_: Did you break the rootfs or u-boot? Jun 29 11:25:35 abra: the rootfs. uboot is working fine. Jun 29 11:25:47 right now, i'm backing up the unit, using dfu-util. Jun 29 11:25:57 even tho the wiki says this is unpossible. Jun 29 11:26:19 Did you have data on there that you want to keep? If not, I'd just overwrite it Jun 29 11:26:24 (sorry, bad documentation is a pet peeve of mine) Jun 29 11:26:31 yes, i have phone numbers i want to keep. Jun 29 11:27:01 i know where the file is in the filesystem. i even have a backup i made before all hell broke loose. Jun 29 11:27:17 but i have no way to push my backups to the flash, because the documentation on making a bootable SD is wrong. Jun 29 11:27:50 * juri_ tries to calm down. Jun 29 11:29:40 I doubt it's wrong, it just plain doesn't work at the moment Jun 29 11:32:31 so, to recap, i have a broken rootfs, which isn''t bringing up cdc ethernet, or the gui. i'd love to reflash, but i need my phone numbers off of the device. Jun 29 11:33:08 i am using a recent build if uboot (may 2, 2008).. Jun 29 11:33:37 and i have a jtag board, but the device does not have a serial port when it boots. Jun 29 11:52:35 hmm. reading through the uboot env variables (that i luckily downloaded).. it appears to be trying to boot from a single ext2 filesyste. Jun 29 12:00:26 yey.. @ topic Jun 29 12:40:19 hmm, i should always fclose an open file descriptor don't i? Jun 29 12:42:09 It depends. Jun 29 12:42:16 oh, Jun 29 12:42:17 Usually, but you can let the OS clean up for you Jun 29 12:42:23 its from /dev/rtc Jun 29 12:42:35 i have a nasty segfault if i fclose it Jun 29 12:42:43 odd Jun 29 12:42:54 otherwise, getting that invalid pointer..from glibc Jun 29 12:43:21 * Sup3rkiddo has a reputation for silly segfaults Jun 29 12:49:21 Is there any kind of howto to build a developing environment for the Freerunner ? Jun 29 12:49:57 Ainulindale, you could use the Makefile or the toolchain Jun 29 12:50:07 toolchain is quicker Jun 29 12:50:12 to setup Jun 29 12:50:50 Ainulindale, if you don't know, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Jun 29 12:51:21 Just what I was looking for, thanks Jun 29 12:52:10 And in order to run it on some kind of emulator ? Jun 29 12:52:21 Ainulindale, there is qemu Jun 29 13:05:06 Sup3rkiddo: Hmmm I fear I don't know one thing : is it possible to test, for example, an UI as it would be on, say, the freerunner ? Jun 29 13:06:03 Arf, gcc4 can't build qemu. What a pain in the ass. Jun 29 13:06:25 Ainulindale, yeah, qemu need gcc3..OM has its own fork of qemu if i am correct Jun 29 13:07:03 Ainulindale, if you give it some time (long one), you can use MokoMakefile Jun 29 13:07:21 I'm not in a hurry Jun 29 13:08:16 But I'll need a version of gcc-3 Jun 29 13:08:18 Sic'. Jun 29 13:09:00 well let's emerge " yay gentoo :D Jun 29 13:11:39 What ? Jun 29 13:11:51 emerge, the gentoo python script Jun 29 13:11:55 na, never mind..i use gentoo as well Jun 29 13:12:02 Yep, thanks, I know what I use Bish :-) Jun 29 13:12:13 -_- .. Jun 29 13:12:19 Sup3rkiddo: Then you're a good kid. :-p Jun 29 13:12:26 :P Jun 29 13:12:39 Ainulindale, FYI, i am 32 Jun 29 13:13:23 You're a good and big kid then :-p Jun 29 13:14:01 oh, yeah.. i am a "big" guy Jun 29 13:14:06 :-) Jun 29 13:14:19 And FYI, then, I'm 25, so the kind concept... :-) Jun 29 13:14:24 -n Jun 29 13:14:34 I'm tired, shouldn't drink wine this lunch. Jun 29 13:14:44 It's time for coffee \o/ Jun 29 13:14:57 :D Jun 29 13:15:45 It's a pity I can't decide where to start from with the freerunner Jun 29 13:16:00 I want to do something, as I'm bored and what to have a nice phone, but I don't know what Jun 29 13:16:08 s/what/want/ Jun 29 13:16:08 Ainulindale meant: I want to do something, as I'm bored and want to have a nice phone, but I don't know what Jun 29 13:16:44 At last, apt is helpful and not slow. Jun 29 13:17:03 * Ainulindale dodges the troll-to-troll missile Jun 29 13:28:35 o_O my neo's been up for 11h on battery, not completely idle Jun 29 13:29:12 unless the connected debug board can provide power somehow.. Jun 29 13:37:55 ok, so the dfu util in debian will download all the rootfs except the last 64K... Jun 29 13:38:23 and while i can download the uboot, i cannot upload the same uboot back to the device.. Jun 29 13:38:42 * juri_ conciders shortening the rootfs. Jun 29 13:46:45 ok, what file is my phone number database supposed to be in? Jun 29 13:53:26 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rf6187d2c12bb 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.h rtc.vala): Fix segfault when GetWakeupTime is called Jun 29 14:13:57 so, no-one here knows what file the phone numbers are kept in? Jun 29 14:15:00 hi ah any news on what a single buy will get one ? Jun 29 14:15:22 are the goodies only for the packs of 10 ? Jun 29 14:15:50 is anyone aware of this stuff ? Jun 29 14:22:37 mm? Jun 29 14:23:30 openmoko: 03zecke * r637cae51cc0b 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/themed/callscreen.cpp: [theme] Update the two items in one go as well Jun 29 14:23:30 openmoko: 03zecke * rfbb4d231838b 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [x11] Do not paint before we got a MapNotify from the X server Jun 29 14:23:31 openmoko: 03zecke * r0804dac71580 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [x11] Do not wait for a MapNotify when the window is already mapped Jun 29 14:23:35 give up, man. Jun 29 14:23:35 dbmoodb some guys got their freerunners already and took pics of what came....i wasnt paying attention myself as to what was included but looked like goodies Jun 29 14:24:25 i've been asking question ater question, finding problem with the docs after problem.. and no answers from no-one tonight. not that thats exactly abnormal... Jun 29 14:25:43 where are the pics ? Jun 29 14:28:21 zedstar: ... Jun 29 14:28:33 oh i see it Jun 29 14:29:10 i remember it was either johnl or tig the username who had them so u can search irc log Jun 29 14:29:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jun 29 14:31:36 i can't find any info on approx battery time tho Jun 29 14:33:11 http://www.google.com/search?q=battery+time+site%3Alists.openmoko.org Jun 29 14:33:25 dbmoodb_2: it's complex Jun 29 14:34:07 dbmoodb_2: at some time in the future, it seems likely 7 hours Jun 29 14:34:15 dbmoodb_2: 'on-active' time. Jun 29 14:34:24 ok found it.. by browsing through the source to the dialer.. Jun 29 14:34:48 dbmoodb_2: and a week-10 days standby Jun 29 14:35:27 dbmoodb_2: however. At the moment, the power saving is not implemented other than very partially. Jun 29 14:37:24 someone sayed up to 1 month in standby with everything (including GSM) off Jun 29 14:37:27 not wery useful thou Jun 29 14:37:34 zash: probably me Jun 29 14:37:42 probably Jun 29 14:37:44 :D Jun 29 14:37:44 zash: that's the time in suspend-RAM Jun 29 14:38:15 zash: but yes, that's probably not useful. Jun 29 14:39:33 juri_: where was it? Jun 29 14:40:11 juri_: inthe gtk+ framework... it's supposed to be some place called journal or moko-journal iirc and it should be some eds db Jun 29 14:40:38 balrog-kun: in /home/root/.evolution/adressbook/... Jun 29 14:40:48 dbmoodb_2: at least headphones come with the phones that i know Jun 29 14:41:17 i'm majorly miffed, at this point. i've had a host of problems all night, and nothing i've picked up from the wiki at *any* point has been correct :/ Jun 29 14:41:56 but, i've about solved all my problems myself, by ignoring everything i've read. Jun 29 14:43:21 ...and correcting what was wrong hopefully? :p Jun 29 14:43:29 * balrog-kun has a 11h 45m uptime at the moment, on battery Jun 29 14:43:36 don't know how to find out if the modem is powered Jun 29 14:43:47 negative. i previously had trouble with your wiki. i'm just going to add pages to my own. Jun 29 14:44:41 if i'd had help at any point, sure, i'd go through the extra effort to mess with your wiki. instead i got misdirection, and ignorance. maybe i'll mess with that after i cool down.. Jun 29 14:44:50 the cpu is not in standby and not even very idle Jun 29 14:44:59 * juri_ has never been quite this pissed at an opensource project. Jun 29 14:46:51 oh ah balrog-kun and that isn't shown in the picture of what you get - the headphones Jun 29 14:47:11 can we buy the pouch / headsets if we are not in a group of 10 ? Jun 29 14:47:51 12 hours atm ? Jun 29 14:47:55 balrog-kun: call it ? Jun 29 14:48:39 juri_: its also the business end Jun 29 14:48:53 the guys on this don't all work with openmoko and so its adhoc Jun 29 14:49:34 dbmoodb: have no way to see what the modem prints (so even if it rings i won't see it) and also no SIM inside Jun 29 14:49:44 then the buisness end isn't doing their job, and actually fostering an opensource community. :/ Jun 29 14:49:46 balrog-kun: 11 hours ? Jun 29 14:49:54 oh common its got no sim in it Jun 29 14:49:56 11 50 sorry Jun 29 14:50:11 balrog-kun: that's hardly fair Jun 29 14:50:37 balrog-kun: in addition why is the warranty only 14 days ? Jun 29 14:50:51 if i buy it from openmoko - i'm in australia how can i get it back within that period Jun 29 14:50:53 yeah, testing my hack Jun 29 14:51:02 dbmoodb: uh i had no idea there was a warranty Jun 29 14:51:30 balrog-kun: i want a linux phone but .... there is a price i am willing to pay and $430 for a phone with no warranty for me is a bit much Jun 29 14:51:33 balrog-kun: call it Jun 29 14:51:41 he can't its got no sim in it SpeedEvil Jun 29 14:51:43 i just asked that Jun 29 14:51:44 it would be probably better for the marketting to give no warranty at all Jun 29 14:51:59 If you are in the EU, the seller is bound by the distance selling regulations. Jun 29 14:52:11 you wouldn't even think about it if warranty wasn't mentioned Jun 29 14:52:12 balrog-kun: i demand a warranty for any linux device i buy with that distro on it Jun 29 14:52:20 balrog-kun: i would Jun 29 14:52:22 And you can return it on opening it for a full refund. Jun 29 14:52:23 dbmoodb: only because now you've heard of the 14 days Jun 29 14:52:29 no Jun 29 14:52:31 balrog-kun: that is bs Jun 29 14:52:38 if i buy a phone i want a warranty Jun 29 14:52:42 it was probably a bad marketting move Jun 29 14:52:54 It's probably not legal in the EU. Jun 29 14:52:58 balrog-kun: what instead not tell us its got no warranty Jun 29 14:53:04 balrog-kun: its illegal in australia too Jun 29 14:53:14 Probably. Pulster.de does give 2 years. Jun 29 14:53:19 dbmoodb are u looking to buy and use the freerunner as an end user phone? or more interested in development on it? Jun 29 14:53:26 hmm i don't think i've ever bought anything on warrant Jun 29 14:53:29 y Jun 29 14:53:31 zedstar: -linux phone Jun 29 14:53:36 zedstar: doesn't really matter - if the hardware fails. Jun 29 14:53:41 balrog-kun: oh common why can you buy without one Jun 29 14:53:55 zedstar: the software is fine. i am worried about the hardware Jun 29 14:54:04 SpeedEvil: you can damage hardware by using wrong firmware Jun 29 14:54:22 flaushy: we are nto talking about doing that Jun 29 14:54:40 "well the software is fine" is quite subjective anyway Jun 29 14:54:47 dbmoodb: and btw you know very well why there's no warranty Jun 29 14:55:02 balrog-kun: i have no idea why thereisn't Jun 29 14:55:14 i wouldnt consider the software fine right now if you are looking at using it seriously as an end user device Jun 29 14:55:18 it's a hacking platform Jun 29 14:55:21 netgear just gave a 1 year i think it is might be two years, on their new open source router Jun 29 14:55:24 not a daily use phone Jun 29 14:55:25 balrog-kun: no excuse Jun 29 14:55:29 but your definition may vary Jun 29 14:55:49 Hi Jun 29 14:56:20 zedstar: i can buy an eee pc Jun 29 14:56:26 with a warranty for the same amount Jun 29 14:56:39 that is a much better hacking platform Jun 29 14:56:58 not really (from my point of view) Jun 29 14:56:59 it's not a developer platform at all, it's a ready product Jun 29 14:57:27 balrog-kun: what did you just say before you said not Jun 29 14:57:32 now you say it is ready Jun 29 14:57:35 me thinks you might be confused a bit to the current target audience of the freerunner Jun 29 14:57:36 which is it ? Jun 29 14:57:39 dbmoodb: eee pc Jun 29 14:57:55 * dbmoodb thinks not Jun 29 14:57:58 people that can help make it work? Jun 29 14:57:59 :) Jun 29 14:58:25 the battery of freerunner how its during? Jun 29 14:58:26 zedstar: if i buy a hard disk i get a warranty, but not with this phone ? Jun 29 14:59:22 you may as well send me a brick and it will be out of warranty period (you being openmoko / fic) so i can't do anything Jun 29 14:59:34 dbmoodb: sold from openmoko inc directly it only has warranty against beeing more broken than the rest of the devices at arrival. Jun 29 14:59:37 afaik. Jun 29 14:59:43 i imagine things like warrenty would be addressed better when there is a consumer ready phone Jun 29 15:00:27 zedstar: so what is this then ? Jun 29 15:00:41 dbmoodb, not one. Jun 29 15:00:45 european distributors need to comply with the european laws which means 2 years, but they can still fiddle around with the promised features. Jun 29 15:00:47 dbmoodb: go read the wiki ;) Jun 29 15:00:56 it is a developers phone...a chance for u to get invovled in something that might change the mobile landscape a bit Jun 29 15:01:09 zedstar: balrog-kun i have read the wiki Jun 29 15:01:17 dbmoodb: see, this not giving warranty made you realize this is not the product you were looking for Jun 29 15:01:18 textshell|away: who is giving a two year warranty ? Jun 29 15:01:24 otherwise you might have not noticed Jun 29 15:01:35 dbmoodb: it's a development platform with real chance to be usabe as mobile phone too. Jun 29 15:01:54 textshell: the only thing bothering me is the warranty Jun 29 15:01:58 dbmoodb, pulster, as I said. I'm happy they do, hope they don't suffer from it. Don't know if they sell outside EU, would be doubtful. Jun 29 15:02:58 if u really want a linux phone motorola do some nice ones! Jun 29 15:03:01 i'm not going to play ball with a company who isn't sure enough in their own devices to give me a warranty. i'm a student i'm not putting my money into something that can break due to some hardware problem and not get it covered under a warranty. Jun 29 15:03:07 zedstar: pft Jun 29 15:03:10 ey anyone can answer my question? Jun 29 15:03:32 Jausk: what was it ? Jun 29 15:03:40 about battery life Jun 29 15:04:14 dbmoodb: for distributors in europe see openmoko.com. But i'm not sure if the laws in europe are what you'd call warranty. In .eu there's something the store you buy from needs to do and then there's what the producer offers, they are different tihngs. Jun 29 15:04:38 there needs to be an infobot in this channel for FAQ ... Jun 29 15:04:42 if it helps, i have two neo1973's in front of me, and they've held up. Jun 29 15:05:11 so, thats 2/1000 of the previous model that went into production, and work flawlessly. Jun 29 15:05:14 dbmoodb: i'm a student too, more or less. But yes, openmoko isn't really 100% sure if there's still a hardware problem. Jun 29 15:05:17 juri_: i know i know but lets say there is a defect in production that doesn't show till later. i'm a student. Jun 29 15:05:27 so the warranty would have given you an even more wrong idea of what the freerunner is Jun 29 15:05:54 Jausk: with the current software it's not good. But it's expected to get better. Jun 29 15:05:57 A _hardware_ warranty is completely seperate drom a software warranty. Jun 29 15:06:02 balrog: the wiki itsself is confused about wether the freerunner is production ready, or not at all. Jun 29 15:06:22 The hardware is supposed to be. Jun 29 15:06:27 textshell, how time? Jun 29 15:06:33 balrog-kun: you can't sell devices legally that come dead on arrival under australian law i don't know but us, but if you send (you being the company) a device via your transport methods to a consumer and its dead its your fault. Jun 29 15:06:36 of course, i've been doing alright with my neo. Jun 29 15:06:38 At one point - the hype was that frerunner would be mass market. Jun 29 15:06:51 SpeedEvil: i thought it still was ? Jun 29 15:07:00 the SW is nowhere near IMO ... Jun 29 15:07:03 dbmoodb: at release Jun 29 15:07:22 the Neo1973 didnt even boot out of the box! but at least the Freerunner does :) Jun 29 15:07:23 The software is an utter joke. - as a mass market device. Jun 29 15:07:41 dbmoodb, yeah, OM's warranty is exactly of the DOA variety Jun 29 15:08:07 SpeedEvil: yes, it's supposed to be hardware that's ready for a consumer phone, but i don't think openmoko is 100% convinced that there isn't a small but fatal problem. At least i wouldn't without a working realistic test. Jun 29 15:08:25 speed: actually, the qtopia build is rather nice. the other build is.. interesting, but functional. sometimes anyways. :) Jun 29 15:08:54 juri_: I mean - it's certainly not consumer ready. Jun 29 15:09:16 mmm so they have done lots of testing. there have been lots of delays. i have seen the neos they are nice Jun 29 15:09:17 juri_: would you be happy giving it with the manual to someone with no linux skills. Jun 29 15:09:50 textshell: in europe u have warranty, in germany, as pulster is, 6 month all is covered, so seller needs to prove that you broke it, after 6 months, you need to prove that it is broken because of faulty device (bad material) Jun 29 15:09:51 1973's.... they are built well good boards i suppose. what possible problem could there be with them atm --- i am talking about a killer bug here in the hardware Jun 29 15:10:12 dbmoodb: something in FR that precludes getting >1 day standby life. Jun 29 15:10:19 dbmoodb: ... Jun 29 15:10:22 fr ? Jun 29 15:10:30 FreeRunner Jun 29 15:10:53 dbmoodb: the FR is largely different design from the 1973 Jun 29 15:10:57 well.... the first one had that problem but qt build was supposed to fix some of that Jun 29 15:11:20 SpeedEvil: yeah but this one works for > 6 hours without a charge yah ? Jun 29 15:11:31 dbmoodb: yes. Jun 29 15:12:18 realistically i only need 12 hours at a time. that includes some wifi (15mins maybe) some gps perhaps . Jun 29 15:12:34 i take it wifi / gps are not battery killers :) (hopes) Jun 29 15:12:39 wifi is Jun 29 15:12:40 (too much ) Jun 29 15:12:42 they are ^^ Jun 29 15:12:46 well - not too badly Jun 29 15:12:47 how muc tho ? Jun 29 15:12:47 Arcus, here :) Jun 29 15:12:51 much* Jun 29 15:12:55 yes, hello Jun 29 15:12:56 IIRC GPS is about 100mW, wifi 250mW Jun 29 15:13:02 question is how good there is cell coverage Jun 29 15:13:05 what is the normal drain ? Jun 29 15:13:08 bye. good luck Jun 29 15:13:18 here in our computer science department u drain every cell phone within 12 hours Jun 29 15:13:31 due to bunker like architecture -.- Jun 29 15:13:39 So, 5%/hour battery extra for wifi, 2.5% for GPS Jun 29 15:13:55 SpeedEvil: that's ultralight in my books Jun 29 15:14:23 Err Jun 29 15:14:36 I may have mixed up units for the wifi Jun 29 15:14:43 It may be 15%/hour. Jun 29 15:14:44 50% ? rofl Jun 29 15:15:27 and talking? Jun 29 15:15:50 hmm. i don't suppose theres someone here who can help me shorten the partition size of the rootfs by 64K? Jun 29 15:16:34 juri_: do you have access to the u-boot command line now? Jun 29 15:17:02 despite what you read on the wiki , dfu-util will download files from the openmoko just fine.. except if the rootfs image is full. Jun 29 15:17:18 balrog-kun: i'd need to do that in the u-boot_env file, right? Jun 29 15:17:37 i've tried hexediting the length, and regenerating the file with pieces of the devirginator. no dice. Jun 29 15:17:42 juri_: yeah, possibly, i've not flashed through that script yet Jun 29 15:17:57 it's supposed to be a text file you have to edit Jun 29 15:18:09 i'm not flashing through that script. i'm just using that piece to generate a new u-boot_env, and dfu-util to push it to the unit. Jun 29 15:18:23 juri_: oh, ok Jun 29 15:18:40 well, u-boot_env should also contain all the env variables in plaintext Jun 29 15:18:49 so there's a variable called mtdparts Jun 29 15:18:52 both the perl script and the environment file don't have spots for editing.. right. :) Jun 29 15:18:57 i'm editing that. Jun 29 15:19:01 and failing. :) Jun 29 15:19:43 reducing the mtdparts section for rootfs by 64k results in the unit telling me i have an offset problem. Jun 29 15:20:08 "partition rootfs size alignment incorrect". Jun 29 15:20:14 oh.. oh.. i think i know what it might be Jun 29 15:20:34 juri_: is that gta01 though? Jun 29 15:20:41 yes, it is. Jun 29 15:22:00 the sizes need to be erase-block aligned, but the erase block on gta01 was 0x8000 bytes big Jun 29 15:22:03 so 32k Jun 29 15:22:16 on gta02 is't 0x20000 bytes Jun 29 15:22:50 but that dosent make any sense, the u_boot-env is 4000h... Jun 29 15:23:10 think i need to bring it down by 4000h, instead of 2000h? Jun 29 15:24:15 well, the rootfs you wanted to shorten by 10000 Jun 29 15:25:04 2000 would give you problems for sure, i'm not sure why 4000 isn't giving me problems o_0 Jun 29 15:27:19 u-boot_env is 0x40000 on the gta02 Jun 29 15:27:24 so 256kB Jun 29 15:27:43 16k on the 01. Jun 29 15:27:54 btw can the phone make phone calls and work properly with that stuff atm Jun 29 15:28:11 Can it make phone calls? Yes. Jun 29 15:28:17 sms ? Jun 29 15:28:35 as far as i have read yes Jun 29 15:29:04 not very reliably, depending on the software you use to sms and call Jun 29 15:29:08 ok good enough if battery is reaching over 10 hours fine by me. if some one can test it in use i would love to see that Jun 29 15:29:21 balrog-kun: qt latest openmoko build ? Jun 29 15:29:42 dbmoodb: well, the fso (python stuff) is said to have better results than the qt stuff Jun 29 15:30:47 i've not tried either yet, outside emulation Jun 29 15:31:06 *blink* Jun 29 15:31:52 balrog-kun: i think you are not very helpful. you have made me consider not buying the thing just buy your comments. i will see what happens with the test reports Jun 29 15:32:03 and see what happens from there Jun 29 15:32:36 how is he not helpful? Jun 29 15:32:59 on that note can some one do a test if you have a gta2 runnint the latest qt / openmoko build on uptime with a sim in connected to the phone network / callable . then perhaps try with wifi and gps (seperately) and finally with both on. Jun 29 15:33:13 igor321: just with his dismisive comments regarding the warranty. Jun 29 15:33:25 dbmoodb: i think making you not buy something you woudln't want to buy is rather helpful Jun 29 15:33:30 igor321: i trust people and then they tell me they don't have it out side of a vm :) Jun 29 15:33:44 balrog-kun: i want to buy. Jun 29 15:34:20 i dont want some guy on irc telling me i shouldn't buy it. tell it my freelink nas and my openwrt router. hence, i was hoping for a warranty this time Jun 29 15:34:23 ok.. something you would regret buying, or make someone else regret they sold you :p Jun 29 15:34:27 that's all Jun 29 15:34:34 could regret Jun 29 15:34:46 Calls and TXT works fine, thanks. Jun 29 15:34:50 yes i have accept this but don't talk me out of buying the damn thing Jun 29 15:34:53 well you asked he answered, nothing wrong with the truth Jun 29 15:35:09 It's the first thing that I tested after inserting a SIM card. Jun 29 15:35:18 igor321: not completly its just different he was being overly careful to me nothing wrong with that Jun 29 15:35:37 Dave: thank you and can ou test and do a write up of the battery performance ? Jun 29 15:36:00 uhh, there's not much to write up. Jun 29 15:36:32 I'm not going to perform a full length battery benchmark since that wouldn't be very sensible right now. Jun 29 15:36:34 well how long does it last for with a sim in it connected to a phone network Jun 29 15:36:42 dave sure thing Jun 29 15:36:54 but just quickly from your experience how long connected to a network ? Jun 29 15:37:06 like less than 10 hours > 6 hours ? Jun 29 15:37:16 Though as far as timeframe, it easily lasts over 24hr if you have it sit there, screen off, and accessories off :P Jun 29 15:37:27 that about making calls is not even my opinion, it's being discussed here about everyday and the consensus is that there's no rootfs image that succeeds to make or receive calls/messages in 100% at this time, it was probably mentioned in the topic at times Jun 29 15:37:29 since I left it on, on my desk, all yesterday Jun 29 15:38:05 aloril: that's fine Jun 29 15:38:19 my nokia doesn't either :) ( i meant balrog-kun not aloril ) Jun 29 15:38:23 Dave: ok that's great Jun 29 15:38:25 dbmoodb: the questions you ask cannot be answered very well, because there is no firmware image that has all the software working at the same time yet. Jun 29 15:38:29 dbmoodb: if you want I can turn on wifi/gps/gsm and leave it powered on Jun 29 15:38:44 Dave: yeah that would be good. mwester yes i realise Jun 29 15:38:46 granted with almost no data transmission it might be a better test :P Jun 29 15:39:04 ok thank you dave. i will be buying one ! start the hacking Jun 29 15:39:10 can someone port quake 1 on it and tell me how fast it runs? :) Jun 29 15:39:11 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r9cd6bbc1f358 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/rtc.c: return wakeup time including hours and minutes Jun 29 15:39:14 I have already begun :) Jun 29 15:39:37 Dave: i think want would be really great to know is how stable suspending is these days and how long it lasts in reasonable usage... Jun 29 15:39:51 ok, with dyn-tick timers (i.e. CONFIG_NO_IDLE_HZ) my battery is dead after approximately 12h 45m, but no crash Jun 29 15:40:00 suspending, as in the apm function? Jun 29 15:40:44 suspending as in cpu goes into low power mode but still wakes on calls. Jun 29 15:40:54 Ah. Jun 29 15:41:44 somebody said yesterday the SD card is unstable on suspend/resume, that the situation? Jun 29 15:41:45 yeah, I was just thinking, it would be nice to have an on-demand type of apm for the major components of the phone :p Jun 29 15:42:58 Well i think managing wifi and gps per and isn't that big of a problem. Main CPU and backlight need to be ondemand managed some way to be usable imho. Jun 29 15:43:16 Right. Jun 29 15:43:31 but i got the impression that at least some images have the support but not the reliability. Jun 29 15:47:16 damn, I can't find where I read about the timezone hack for the Neo... Jun 29 15:49:03 What are you trying to hack about the timezone? Jun 29 15:49:18 (timezones seem pretty standard these days) Jun 29 15:49:30 telling my Neo what TZ I'm in Jun 29 15:49:54 no tzconfig, no /etc/timezone, I'm lost Jun 29 15:49:55 Oh, just to select the timezone? Jun 29 15:49:59 yep Jun 29 15:50:08 I'm on OM-2007.2 Jun 29 15:51:14 That's just a standard Linux thing these days; just copy the correct file for your location from /usr/share/zoneinfo/... to /etc/local (I create a symbolic link, just because it's neater) Jun 29 15:51:31 localtime -> ../usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago Jun 29 15:51:56 ah, right Jun 29 15:52:11 thanks, it worked Jun 29 15:52:17 Cool. Jun 29 15:52:25 balrog-kun: yay! that did it! Jun 29 15:52:28 Now the question is, does your unit keep time? Jun 29 15:52:40 I just rebooted, we'll see Jun 29 15:52:57 I don't mind ntpdate-ing every boot, anyway Jun 29 15:53:05 woot Jun 29 15:53:30 Heh - that's what I do also; mine boots up several hours off from the real time, although it seems to keep time whilst running. Jun 29 15:53:34 now, i'll check to make sure i can back it up with dfa-util... Jun 29 15:54:18 * balrog-kun did his backing up from under linux, just sending /dev/mtdblockN over Jun 29 15:54:34 it kept time across a reboot Jun 29 15:54:38 balrogkun: that WILL fail. Jun 29 15:54:46 i ended up in a corner case. Jun 29 15:54:58 but since I've got ntpdate installed, it's probably called at boot time :) Jun 29 15:55:15 dfu-util will fail to restore a image that is full. only by reducing its size by 64K will it allow you to push it to the device. Jun 29 15:55:18 * theocrite hopes the neo will be availaible before august, his current phone is working worse and worse every day :/ Jun 29 15:55:52 * juri_ tests. Jun 29 15:55:59 haha Jun 29 15:56:19 juri, that is clearly a bug. Jun 29 15:56:23 theocrite: neo is no longer sold, and freerunner developer handsets are already beeing sold. Jun 29 15:56:39 txtsh, I believe that's what he was referring to :] Jun 29 15:56:42 but only in europe... Jun 29 15:57:21 the openmoko.com web shop should open on the 4th of July Jun 29 15:57:51 yay! happy independance day :P Jun 29 15:57:58 haha coi Jun 29 15:58:01 Freedom day! Jun 29 15:58:10 yeah :) Jun 29 15:58:11 Celebrate your independence, by freeing yourself from your phone :P Jun 29 15:58:19 No more tentacle rape for me! :p Jun 29 15:58:41 Haha the symbolism is disgustingly ironic (re: date of the supposed release) :P Jun 29 16:00:53 i thought there was something about tentacles and phones :) Jun 29 16:01:15 i thought he had sex with an octopus! Jun 29 16:01:52 me too! Jun 29 16:02:12 impressive! those things swim fast :) Jun 29 16:03:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s_Wife Jun 29 16:03:06 pardon this :) Jun 29 16:09:47 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rc81acb32771d 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.h rtc.vala): add SetCurrentTime Jun 29 16:24:03 textshell: and the GA02 ? Jun 29 16:24:16 gta02 = freerunner Jun 29 16:24:36 Then this will be sold again right ? Jun 29 16:24:48 * theocrite put his name on a list already. Jun 29 16:25:48 freerunners will be sold soon. depending on you location you might even be able to order now. Jun 29 16:26:08 But keep in mind the freerunner isn't really consumer ready yet. Jun 29 16:27:36 I think i'm a consumer geekstuff ready. Jun 29 16:28:34 just don't expect a working smartphone, or something that works out of the box without trouble. Jun 29 16:28:42 k Jun 29 16:29:12 @all: is there any (wiki?) page that somewhat reasonable describes the overall status of the freerunner hardware+current software bundle? Jun 29 16:32:20 there is a page about gta02 hw on the openmoko wiki Jun 29 16:34:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rc071e0a56e16 10/otapi/ (2 files): Jun 29 16:34:36 freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml.in: add LAC (location area code) and CID (cell id) to the expected tuples in the Jun 29 16:34:36 freesmartphone.org: status signal Jun 29 16:34:46 Is there any chance that you might brick your freerunner or something when flashing it? Jun 29 16:34:59 faern, if you screw up with a uboot, yes Jun 29 16:35:07 i mean flashing the wrong uboot Jun 29 16:35:47 ok :/ then lets hope that never happens. Jun 29 16:36:03 Sup3rkiddo: what's the status of the backup memory? Jun 29 16:36:06 Sup3rkiddo there is still uboot in nor then. gta02 is basically unbrickable Jun 29 16:36:22 oh..ok, i didnt know that...sorry Jun 29 16:36:26 some sources said you can brick it with debug board only Jun 29 16:36:34 but then you can also fix it :) Jun 29 16:36:35 roh: phew. good Jun 29 16:36:36 and one can only write the nor with a debugboard. Jun 29 16:36:44 aha Jun 29 16:36:49 which also means one can unbrick it also then. Jun 29 16:36:54 yeah Jun 29 16:37:02 SpeedEvil, ? Jun 29 16:37:04 roh: I heard differently - namely that you couldn't get at the NOR through DFU, but linux could do it. Jun 29 16:37:13 roh: I assume then this was incorrect? Jun 29 16:37:16 so we short-circuited the problem with some tricky logic there ;) Jun 29 16:37:30 roh: and the first idea of completely RO without debug was implemented? Jun 29 16:37:48 i dunno if there are drivers to write the nor from uboot. i guess so. Jun 29 16:37:55 roh: And is the NOR flashed with a usable rescue image of some sort? Jun 29 16:38:19 the nor is ro by force. the only way to rw it is to connect a debugboard or to solder Jun 29 16:38:37 the gta02 itself cannot control the rw-line Jun 29 16:38:52 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r7f4d7738626a 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.vala): Close file descriptors properly Jun 29 16:38:58 roh: it boots off NOR, and then transfers control to NAND if a magic keypress isn't done? Jun 29 16:39:15 SpeedEvil it boots nand Jun 29 16:39:29 it only boots nor if you hold down aux while booting Jun 29 16:39:43 roh: where is that implemented? Hardware, or in the NAND? Jun 29 16:39:56 roh: the button detection - is it software or hardware? Jun 29 16:40:06 in hardware. there is a physical extra nor flash Jun 29 16:40:19 would seem a bit silly if it was software... Jun 29 16:40:25 K - so it's somethign pulled up saying 'boot off other media'. Jun 29 16:40:38 part hard, part software. the flash to be booted is selected by hardware, what happens then is by software Jun 29 16:40:40 mjr: indeed - I was just clarifying my understanding of the hardware. Jun 29 16:40:53 Lacking circuit diagrams :( Jun 29 16:41:05 the arm has some lines which select which of the few modes and types of flash it uses to boot. Jun 29 16:42:11 need to run.. bbl. Jun 29 16:42:16 WAve. Jun 29 16:42:24 SpeedEvil you can still sign the nda for schems ;) Jun 29 16:42:31 *cough* Jun 29 16:42:46 roh: How? Jun 29 16:43:25 if you have real specific questions (or even better want to write documentation about it in the wiki or so) send me a mail, and i'll see if i can do some partial snaps from the schems like for the bat_id stuff Jun 29 16:43:43 roh: K Jun 29 16:43:47 SpeedEvil send a mail to steve and explain why you need schems *cough* Jun 29 16:44:16 the only problem is, with nda one always need to care what to say. Jun 29 16:44:35 Will think on that. Jun 29 16:47:46 SpeedEvil but hey.. if youre good at hw .. see openmoko.com. we still need more good hw-hackers Jun 29 16:48:29 ok, those settings work. Jun 29 16:48:45 i now iave a script for backing up my open moko remotely over the usb cable. Jun 29 16:49:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r694c7cc734e2 10/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml.in: otapi: fix typo Jun 29 16:50:02 oh snaps Jun 29 16:50:10 this camera is sooooooooo lagged Jun 29 16:50:20 roh: I'm unfortunately not up to a fulltime job healthwise. Jun 29 16:50:49 well.. we are flexible.. just suggest something Jun 29 16:51:03 (flexible.. yeah.. need to.. we have people in every continent) Jun 29 16:51:38 bbiab Jun 29 16:51:41 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rc8c5a165c5c2 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (5 files in 4 dirs): ophoned: change signature of org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.[Get]Status to conform to OTAPI Jun 29 16:51:44 roh: Again - thanks - I'll have to think what I can realistically do. WAve. Jun 29 16:53:09 any/topic Jun 29 16:53:14 sorry Jun 29 16:53:47 anybody that can recommend any specific image (i got a gta01) Jun 29 16:54:51 kinneh: ScaredyCat's images are good Jun 29 16:55:40 pesky feline! Jun 29 16:56:04 I am running the gta02 one and it is nice and stable, has tangogps already in it, a debug tool that is handy and the best bluetooth support I have used :) Jun 29 16:56:21 Dave: aye :) Jun 29 16:57:24 ;) Jun 29 17:00:04 so, who feels like filing a bug report, complete with workaround? :) Jun 29 17:00:28 after fighting my phone for 7 hours, i'm not quite in the mood. :P Jun 29 17:07:01 :D Jun 29 17:09:34 now i can get back to my productive activity.. reading an assembly book. UGH. Jun 29 17:09:57 haha Jun 29 17:10:02 Doubtful :p Jun 29 17:10:56 hi Jun 29 17:11:04 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r90d9f2996b3e 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Jun 29 17:11:04 freesmartphone.org: ophoned: enable proprietary unsolicited signal strength code on TI Calypso and send Jun 29 17:11:04 freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.SignalStrength accordingly Jun 29 17:11:11 how can i build OFT software for neo? Jun 29 17:16:27 * mwester thinks SpeedEvil should consider that... :) The community needs more people on the "inside" ;) :D Jun 29 17:17:59 mickeyl: any particular mail-list, or channel for questions and discussions on fso? I'd like to take a more active role in those images, if I can help out in any way. Jun 29 17:18:48 <||Leto||> any clue if i will be able to fast-charge the fr with my motorola usb-charger? Jun 29 17:20:05 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * ra7478165b3e7 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.h rtc.vala): Check properly for sys/class/rtc/wakealarm and return it if present Jun 29 17:20:42 able to: yes, automatically detecting that spesific charger: no idea, automatically assuming it's that charger: yes, though depends if that's a good idea Jun 29 17:21:05 mhmmm Jun 29 17:21:17 mwester, there is smartphone-standards mailing lists Jun 29 17:21:23 mwester: did you look at http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Infrastructure ? Jun 29 17:21:48 textshell: yep. Jun 29 17:22:06 mwester: if you want to work on the standards + reference implementation side. Jun 29 17:22:29 hah, standards. Jun 29 17:22:39 i'd imagine that the rest of the image are discussed in some openmoko.org ml. Jun 29 17:23:05 devel, if i am right Jun 29 17:23:10 Dave: yes, pseudo standards i.e. documented interfaces meant for reuse and independent implementation. Jun 29 17:23:15 godslastering! Jun 29 17:23:18 ja :p Jun 29 17:23:24 does the pouch contain a place for the stylus? Jun 29 17:23:40 there is a pouch? Jun 29 17:23:46 there is Jun 29 17:23:53 * Sup3rkiddo didn have it in his SoC device :( Jun 29 17:23:55 mwaaaa Jun 29 17:23:57 it's contained in the 10-packs (afaik) Jun 29 17:24:01 ah ok Jun 29 17:24:10 Sup3rkiddo: 10 packs get those. Or buyers on pulster.de can order them seperatly. Jun 29 17:24:11 and it's sold additionally from the resellers Jun 29 17:24:18 i see Jun 29 17:24:31 so any ideas about it? Jun 29 17:24:33 pouches dont have a separate slot for the stylys Jun 29 17:24:45 Sup3rkiddo: u r sure? Jun 29 17:25:07 a local research centre bought a neo1973 lunchbox...the pouch didn thave a slot Jun 29 17:25:17 oh, ok Jun 29 17:25:23 however you could keep it in the pouch without any problems Jun 29 17:25:31 just that there isnt a separate provision Jun 29 17:25:35 juri_: so how did you fix it? Jun 29 17:25:53 Sup3rkiddo: mhmm ok Jun 29 17:26:32 tomboy64, there is "ridge" on the sides, so it can fit there Jun 29 17:26:52 i c :) Jun 29 17:26:55 good to know Jun 29 17:27:06 so you'd recommend buying the pouch? Jun 29 17:27:21 yeah, imo, i liked it Jun 29 17:27:34 well if you like pouches... Jun 29 17:27:34 it did add to the style factor Jun 29 17:27:38 :P Jun 29 17:27:47 or if you are a marsupial Jun 29 17:27:56 ok, that was lame Jun 29 17:28:23 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rec2d645a39a6 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (modems/abstract/mediator.py objects.py): ophoned: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.GetSignalStrength Jun 29 17:28:34 Sup3rkiddo: yeah...you can carry freerunner in there or an underdeveloped kid Jun 29 17:28:46 hehe Jun 29 17:28:50 goodwill: re-write the partition table contained in the u-boot_env to cut my root partition in two, then downloaded it, mounted the jffs2 'loopback' by creating a mtd device in ram on my laptop, pulled the files i needed, put a new firmware on the unit that was 0x14000 bytes short of the end of the disk, and created a "null" partition to occupy that space. Jun 29 17:29:02 geeeky :D Jun 29 17:29:27 juri_: oh my god Jun 29 17:29:32 only, discovering the tools to do all that took *time*. plus, i compiled the svn version of dfu-util, just to make sure the bug hadnt been fixed yet. nope. Jun 29 17:29:53 juri_: whats the bug? Jun 29 17:29:58 yes, it took 7 hours. i'm very annoyed. :) Jun 29 17:30:48 juri_: I bet you now know more about uboot then the rest of us though Jun 29 17:30:49 the bug is that dfu-util will not download more than 64008192 bytes from the unit. technically, its not supposed to download from the unit at all, but i found out it works fine. Jun 29 17:31:23 and its worked fine for at least 500 svn revisions. the wiki needs updated, this bug needs filed, and i need a DRINK. Jun 29 17:31:39 juri_, well as Calvin's dad put it, "It builds character" Jun 29 17:32:14 yea, discovering that magic 14000 byte number was interesting. it can't be 12000, theres some ofset issue reguarding mtd erase block sizes. Jun 29 17:32:44 sup3rkiddo: i've spent 5 months writing documentation for the openmosix project, and have taken over as lead developer. character is something i need no more of. :) Jun 29 17:33:16 juri_, openmosix? cool, it was fun setting up a blender farm in my college as part of an expo Jun 29 17:33:47 documentation writing does need some character :D Jun 29 17:34:34 i've written a 2000+ line commentary on kernel patches. i've been reading an assembly book all night, when i havent been fighting my phone. Jun 29 17:34:56 and i'm only 1/3 of the way done. Jun 29 17:35:01 that issue is prolly the bits that the goverment has controll of haha Jun 29 17:35:07 ;D Jun 29 17:35:22 note that you're testing the debian's dfu-util (right?) Jun 29 17:35:50 Is that so? Jun 29 17:35:55 i was to start with. then i downloaded the latest svn, to make sure i wasnt fighting an old bug. same issue. Jun 29 17:36:07 current svn has this issue. Jun 29 17:36:20 i see -_- Jun 29 17:36:30 1000-1 compreccios an showes up as a minor size problem Jun 29 17:37:03 juri_: what bug does dfu-util have? Jun 29 17:37:56 if you ask it to download contents from the openmoko's root filesystem, it will download 64008192 bytes exctly, then fail. Jun 29 17:38:40 apparently that's asking for too much Jun 29 17:38:46 to work around it, i re-sized the rootfs on my openmoko to 63995904 bytes. Jun 29 17:40:32 juri_: does that mean you lost data? Jun 29 17:41:06 nope. i got my data back, and flashed with a new rootfs. Jun 29 17:41:21 including my custom ringtone, which the system is still mangling. :P Jun 29 17:45:01 good Jun 29 17:45:27 good for showing off on a bus or tube, i'm sure Jun 29 17:45:44 ;) Jun 29 17:45:51 hah Jun 29 17:45:55 tube Jun 29 17:46:02 stupid Jun 29 17:47:07 what's up with tube Jun 29 17:47:24 you said bus or tube Jun 29 17:47:41 and it took me more than a minute to realize you weren't talking about internal pc components :P Jun 29 17:48:05 I was trying to figure what the hell he could be showing off inside of a bus or tube :P Jun 29 17:48:10 electrons? Jun 29 17:48:11 Dave: geek :p Jun 29 17:48:19 * Dave rolls his eyes Jun 29 17:48:25 What else would you be talking about in here :P Jun 29 17:48:32 right Jun 29 17:48:46 heehee Jun 29 17:49:10 What's next, showing off in the chunnel? :p Jun 29 17:50:19 * balrog-kun plays his custom ringtone loudly a couple of times Jun 29 17:51:01 wait, so you can make your own ringtone for the neo?!? Jun 29 17:51:14 isn't that illegal? Jun 29 17:51:30 balrog-kun: was that ringtone a 3.99 deal or was it part of a ringle? ;) Jun 29 17:51:52 * SpeedEvil copyrights /dev/urandom.mp3 Jun 29 17:52:02 hahaha Jun 29 17:52:14 mjr: i hope you are not seirous Jun 29 17:52:28 Sony BMG, the company that brought you the CD rootkit, has been pitching the idea of a new product called the ringle that combines a CD single with a digital ringtone download. The other labels are on board, according to Reuters, and the product should show up in stores soon. Jun 29 17:52:33 right I have managed to get my freerunner to connect to my WPA network, I even managed to get an IP then wpa_supplicant goes titsup and I lose the association, anyone had it working/got any tips? Jun 29 17:53:48 goodwill, and how many tentacles come on the single disc? Jun 29 17:54:00 why would it be illeagle to make your own ringtone? Jun 29 17:54:04 Dave: um? 666? Jun 29 17:54:13 Anyone out there currently have a GTA01 or GTA02 and live in the New York area? Jun 29 17:54:14 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070910-meet-the-ringle-can-it-save-the-riaa.html Jun 29 17:54:36 linuxxr: because its illegal not to let phone and music companies milk you? Jun 29 17:54:46 oo Jun 29 17:54:50 hahaha Jun 29 17:54:58 y that does suck Jun 29 17:55:03 MadTBone, yep Jun 29 17:55:20 But I didn't get mine from a store. Jun 29 17:55:26 (If that's what you're asking) Jun 29 17:55:46 you could even create a composer for creating ringtones in the neo! Jun 29 17:55:57 like my 7 years old phone Jun 29 17:56:31 qbasic plz Jun 29 17:56:33 zash: hehehe, just run audacity Jun 29 17:56:34 :D Jun 29 17:57:11 zash: except theres a standing bug in the dialer that causes ringtones to be repeated every 1.5 seconds, if they're longer than 1.5 seconds, they overlap with themselves. Jun 29 17:57:24 juri_: haha Jun 29 17:57:25 i reported it here. no-one listens to me. :) Jun 29 17:57:33 :P Jun 29 17:57:37 juri_: the old gtk+ dialer? Jun 29 17:57:38 hot Jun 29 17:57:50 juri, almost sounds like the old phonecall audio bug XD Jun 29 17:57:54 * Dave giggles Jun 29 17:57:59 zash: openmoko-dialer2. yes. Jun 29 17:58:51 do they even maintain that anymore, with the qtopia-x11-stuff and asu getting al the love? Jun 29 17:59:12 Dave: Actually, I'm interested in reception with the GTA02 in Manhattan. What are your experiences? Jun 29 17:59:14 :) I don't think that's being maintained, but certainly this channel is not the place for bug reports to be filed. Jun 29 18:00:12 mwester: i must come from an earlier day of irc then. :P Jun 29 18:00:38 I suppose each community has it's policies and practices. Jun 29 18:01:04 OM encourages (or at least, has done so up to now) the use of the bug-tracking system for bug. Jun 29 18:01:10 juri_: theres trac Jun 29 18:01:15 er, for bugs (plural) Jun 29 18:01:39 yes, because what i want to do after spending 7 hours hunting down and fixing my phone, is go through some paperwork. Jun 29 18:01:43 :) Jun 29 18:01:54 * mwester shrugs Jun 29 18:02:04 i have my own paperwork to do on my own project, thanks. Jun 29 18:02:22 juri_: either trac or mailing list i'm afraid Jun 29 18:02:40 juri_: either way for anything to get fixed in dfu-util it needs to reach wpwrak probably Jun 29 18:02:43 and he isn't here Jun 29 18:02:46 Well, then frankly you have no right to be upset that nobody has fixed it. OM has very few, if any, staff that monitor this channel, and I doubt that any here have commit access to the svn repo with that source. Jun 29 18:03:16 he's connected though Jun 29 18:03:43 mwester: i've explained the bug in detail. if someone here can't be bothered to cut and paste, i'm perfectly happy with letting them have bugs. Jun 29 18:03:59 There are lots connected; I wonder how many are connected to actual humans as opposed to proxies or loggers, balrog-kun! Jun 29 18:04:28 mwester: well, he's also been have a conversation minutes ago :p Jun 29 18:04:30 juri_: Why should *I* file a bug report that you encountered? There's so much wrong with that on so many levels... Jun 29 18:04:35 on a different channel Jun 29 18:04:36 you've spent more time trying to get me to use trac than it would take to file it yourself, and quite frankly, after that ordeal, i'm tired. Jun 29 18:04:50 have it your way juri_ Jun 29 18:05:07 mwester: your project. i would assume you care about it. Jun 29 18:05:21 It's not my project-- I'm just another community member. Jun 29 18:05:23 filling bugs from reports other pasted on irc is really a round way Jun 29 18:05:38 i don't think anybody's ever done that Jun 29 18:05:45 *others Jun 29 18:05:50 someone complains in my channels about my projects, i go through things in detail, and help as much as i can. i got repeatedly ignored all night, while i fought this, with over a hundred people 'connected'. Jun 29 18:06:13 juri_: its not his project, he is not in any way offiliated with openmoko Jun 29 18:06:22 lottsa lip Jun 29 18:06:26 balrog, oh, I guess it doesn't count when the complainer is a committer (member) ;) Jun 29 18:06:32 yea, lots of frustration. Jun 29 18:06:37 ahhhh its sunday Jun 29 18:06:50 juri_: and very few people here have any experience with openmoko internals Jun 29 18:07:05 i guess i'm just shocked. Jun 29 18:07:09 notice: Jun 29 18:07:35 well it started as non professional Jun 29 18:07:42 juri_: 90% of us do nto even have the freerunner yet Jun 29 18:07:44 an still is Jun 29 18:07:51 * Dave hides Jun 29 18:08:09 an that is 1 of the greatest things about it Jun 29 18:08:38 ofcourse there are professionals on this project Jun 29 18:08:40 Dave? Jun 29 18:09:12 Yes? Jun 29 18:09:19 yes? Jun 29 18:09:19 so all the mud slinging is just A PROBLEM Jun 29 18:09:51 i guess the whole commercial / non-commercial culture split just rubs me the wrong way. i've never dealt with a project with paid developers, that stay unreachable. Jun 29 18:10:17 juri_: I think a number of them is asleep now. Jun 29 18:10:27 FOSS problem :/ Jun 29 18:10:29 Dave: ;) Jun 29 18:10:31 the one who files a bug should be the person to contact for details on the problem. Jun 29 18:10:33 juri_: raster or XorA would care Jun 29 18:10:34 an its sunday Jun 29 18:10:35 juri_: the dfu-util author is quite reachable Jun 29 18:10:36 Dave: thoughts on reception in Manhattan? Jun 29 18:10:41 isn't this a worldwide organization? the world dosent sleep. people just take shifts. Jun 29 18:10:45 through trac and several mailing lists Jun 29 18:10:54 juri_: the paid ones are asleep now.... Jun 29 18:10:56 juri_: the paid part is very understaffed Jun 29 18:10:57 So cutting and pasting from irc sounds bad. At least unless the project has an different policy. Jun 29 18:10:59 juri_: yeah, but many ppl just reading here :/ Jun 29 18:11:06 juri_: and overworked Jun 29 18:11:23 :) Jun 29 18:11:33 i know about 4 ppl from my university, that work for free for the project Jun 29 18:11:44 there it is Jun 29 18:11:49 most people in this channel I've never even heard speak. I really have no idea who they are Jun 29 18:11:52 i'm understaffed and overworked. *sigh* Jun 29 18:11:53 and monitoring an irc *is* a waste of time if you need to get things done. Jun 29 18:12:03 and that is just because i saw them in classes with openmokos to their lappies attached Jun 29 18:12:22 someone else submitting a trac ticket for a dfu-util bug would make no sense as the point is that people can respond to the ticket and you see the responses Jun 29 18:12:23 furthermore: alot are german Jun 29 18:12:32 and we are in the finals of soccer euro championship Jun 29 18:12:38 which starts in about 30 mins Jun 29 18:13:02 especially the author's responses like requests for a test case Jun 29 18:13:54 juri_: I think you need some good sleep Jun 29 18:14:07 balrog: to be blunt, i don't want to see the responses. my problem is solved, i have a workaround. sorry, i'm not trying to be rude, but i am feeling very burned. i'm not used to getting this poor of a response on an irc support channel. Jun 29 18:14:16 goodwill's probably right. i'm crabby. :) Jun 29 18:14:49 juri_: you got your data...so thats somethign good to think about, and I am telling you now you knwo about uboot more the 99% of us Jun 29 18:14:58 i would help, but i cant :/ Jun 29 18:14:59 juri_: i don't think this is a irc support channel, it's more a place with a lot of people interested to verying degrees in the project. Jun 29 18:14:59 juri_: you got zero response and this is what i'd expect seeing as the authors or maintainers aren't here Jun 29 18:15:15 juri_: I personally look forward to asking you some question about it later Jun 29 18:15:16 balrog: that boggles me. Jun 29 18:15:34 juri_: the signal to noise here is to bad to expect any of the paid people to follow this, IMO. Jun 29 18:15:35 maybe i'm spoiled. :P Jun 29 18:15:40 it is sunday :) i am happy they have a lice next to the project :) Jun 29 18:15:46 they are accessible elsewhere though and this place isn't more accessible than those other places Jun 29 18:15:53 life not lice Jun 29 18:16:14 ;) they may have lice, too -- we don't really know. :p Jun 29 18:16:51 and yes, paid workers are not supposed to be reachable on weekends too. Jun 29 18:17:01 its quite possible i'm just very picky about my communication methods. i've been on irc many more years than i've been mailing around, and i can count the bugs i've filed in bug trackers on one hand. graphical things annoy me. :) Jun 29 18:17:23 so use a text browser Jun 29 18:17:41 hmm i wondet if "apt" allows filing bugs.. Jun 29 18:17:49 mjr: not really practical anymore. Jun 29 18:17:55 balrog: sure. debbug. :) Jun 29 18:17:56 balrog-kun: use 'reportbug' Jun 29 18:18:08 ~reportbug like this? Jun 29 18:18:14 a command line bug filing application. it makes *sense*, and is much easier to use than trac, to such as i. Jun 29 18:18:18 right. Jun 29 18:18:38 ~help Jun 29 18:18:55 how do you file bugs?` Jun 29 18:18:59 Oh, *that* apt. Jun 29 18:19:08 No. It doesn't Jun 29 18:19:20 :p Jun 29 18:19:30 it could query the bugzila some time ago Jun 29 18:19:34 before the switch to trac Jun 29 18:19:43 in some projects it's quite accepted to file bugs in the project chat. But that's something that depends on the project. Jun 29 18:19:46 ~ombug 1514 Jun 29 18:19:53 i run trac myself. and have no trouble tickets filed in it. :) Jun 29 18:19:53 !ombug 1514 Jun 29 18:20:01 * * Bug 1514, Status: Unknown Error () Jun 29 18:20:16 uh Jun 29 18:20:46 alright, thats enough raining on people, i'm going to head to bed now. :P Jun 29 18:21:27 juri_: laters Jun 29 18:21:42 sleep well Jun 29 18:21:56 juri_: nite nite Jun 29 18:27:58 hum.. who set up that cdbot thing work and who set it up? Jun 29 19:01:49 * Tig| gets his freerunner wifi working with WPA and does a happy dance Jun 29 19:07:03 wikument it. Jun 29 19:08:49 well I have bunged in on my bog but am waiting for a friend of mine to verify the steps before I bung it on the om wiki :) Jun 29 19:12:21 ahoi Jun 29 19:16:01 ahoi Jun 29 19:33:09 ahoi Jun 29 20:16:41 mickeyl: thanks for your blog post Jun 29 20:16:50 now it's all clear to me :) Jun 29 20:17:21 I'll spread the word during my French talk Jun 29 20:20:55 A french talk ? For RMLL ? Jun 29 20:21:02 andrenarchy: yes Jun 29 20:21:05 gah Jun 29 20:21:08 andrenarchy: sorry, lazy Jun 29 20:21:14 Ainulindale: yes, I was saying Jun 29 20:21:19 lukhas: URL of the post ? :-) Jun 29 20:21:35 lukhas: Too bad the RMLL are too far away from Paris for me Jun 29 20:21:37 http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jun 29 20:21:40 (and too bad I have a job) Jun 29 20:21:54 * lukhas is getting paid to spend the whole week there Jun 29 20:22:05 I know. Do you really want me to hate you ? Jun 29 20:22:12 yeah Jun 29 20:22:20 Mgnmgnmmgn :-) Jun 29 20:22:26 oh, and most of my colleagues will be there too Jun 29 20:22:45 http://2008.rmll.info/Openmoko-liberez-votre-telephone.html Jun 29 20:22:52 * Ainulindale slaps lukhas Jun 29 20:22:57 I heard they planned to record the talk Jun 29 20:23:01 Bastard :-) Jun 29 20:23:12 Oh by the way, when will you be back ? Jun 29 20:23:16 :-> Jun 29 20:23:34 next Saturday Jun 29 20:23:44 ah, and I live in Lyon, working from home :) Jun 29 20:24:00 Oh, ok, I thought you worked in Paris with the rest of the team :-) Jun 29 20:24:00 so you probably won't see me when you get your phone Jun 29 20:24:12 Too bad, I could have brought home roasted coffee Jun 29 20:24:18 But then you would have told me you don't drink coffee Jun 29 20:24:26 I drink some Jun 29 20:24:28 It would have been such a waste :-p Jun 29 20:24:37 bring it anyway, most of our office is coffee-powered Jun 29 20:24:49 So I guess I will have to wait 'til next monday ? Jun 29 20:25:11 I don't know Jun 29 20:25:18 depends on when the phones finally arrive Jun 29 20:25:25 I guess so Jun 29 20:25:54 there are 2 or 3 people from Bearstech not attending the RMLL Jun 29 20:26:11 so they will probably be there for you to get your phone Jun 29 20:26:19 we'll contact you Jun 29 20:26:31 Nice :-) Jun 29 20:28:20 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r1a89e9a84ee9 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: uboot-add-find-wake-reason.patch Jun 29 20:28:20 openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r280d76ae78ac 10/board/neo1973/gta02/pcf50633.c: uboot-fix-OOCCTL-reset-phase.patch Jun 29 20:28:36 Oh, interesting article Jun 29 20:28:43 openmoko: 03andy 07stable * r96611475add0 10/board/neo1973/gta02/pcf50633.c: uboot-fix-OOCCTL-reset-phase.patch Jun 29 20:28:44 But then it's quite not what I expected Jun 29 20:28:47 indeed Jun 29 20:28:51 what did you expect ? Jun 29 20:29:39 I did know there was no "framework" as is, but some kind of "framework*s*", but I didn't know the real differences Jun 29 20:30:00 Now it seems I have to choose one, and I don't really know which Jun 29 20:30:11 And besides I may have been compiling a useless image :-p Jun 29 20:31:33 hehe Jun 29 20:31:45 right now, I'd go for OM-2007.2 Jun 29 20:31:55 Why is that ? Jun 29 20:32:37 it has a GTK theme out of the box, meaning any GTK app will look nice on it Jun 29 20:32:51 GTK ? Nice ? Bleêêêh. Jun 29 20:32:54 in the near future, when ASU is stable enough, switch to ASU Jun 29 20:33:09 then wait for ASU to be built on top of FSO Jun 29 20:33:37 plus, OM 2007 has games :) Jun 29 20:33:48 Games are for children. Jun 29 20:34:04 The one thing I can't pass by is figlet. Jun 29 20:34:26 I quite like Rectangles on OM 2007.2 Jun 29 20:34:27 (do I sound sarcastic enough ?) Jun 29 20:34:44 in fact I just spent 20 minutes playing instead of writing slides for my talk Jun 29 20:35:09 haha =) Jun 29 20:39:41 Ainulindale: figlet? Jun 29 21:09:22 can you tell the boot loader to boot from the sd-card as standard?, and is it a bad idea because of the slow connection speed? Jun 29 21:13:10 oh man oh man oh man, i can't wait to get a freerunner Jun 29 21:13:36 HauDyr: as I understand it, that's not quite working on the freerunner yet. Jun 29 21:14:32 what about the speed if it was working Jun 29 21:15:40 HauDyr: It'll be slower for sure. How much slower? Hard to tell. Jun 29 21:17:37 what is the speed on the onboard flash? Jun 29 21:18:11 ...probably want to run a compressed fs from the card as well if that's where you're gonna run it... Jun 29 21:18:48 anyway, somebody said the sd interface is left screwed after resume, that correct at this point? Jun 29 21:18:56 mjr why a compressed fs Jun 29 21:19:07 HauDyr, for faster access :] Jun 29 21:26:29 is it possible to configure moko to use the sd as a /home partition Jun 29 21:26:47 I don't see why not. Jun 29 21:28:08 cool so when i update i should be able to keep my settings Jun 29 21:31:11 'course Jun 29 21:33:26 Neh, geen sorry zeggen, gaan slapen en een beetje uitrusten. Jun 29 21:33:42 Wrong window :) Jun 29 21:34:02 it is getting late... Jun 29 21:38:25 HauDyr: just edit /etc/fstab Jun 29 21:38:54 HauDyr: but there is a a bug in linux kernel right now when has corruption problems when device is resuming after suspend Jun 29 21:40:36 I think it'll be ok if it's the /home partition, just not the rootfs. Jun 29 21:41:25 ill try when i get mine Jun 29 21:41:50 in about 2 weeks Jun 29 21:41:56 i hope Jun 29 21:43:19 mwester: my reading of the bug is that corruption happens regardless Jun 29 21:43:27 of rootfs or not Jun 29 21:43:47 anyone know what the screen is like on the freerunner? Jun 29 21:43:56 is it sort of glass like? Jun 29 21:44:02 like on the iphone? Jun 29 21:44:04 That's not consistent with what I observe; I have the SD mounted as /stuff during suspend/resume, with no corruption. Jun 29 21:44:06 or less durabile? Jun 29 21:44:31 ajbrun: same screen as the neo (GTA01). Jun 29 21:44:40 i've not seen the neo either Jun 29 21:44:43 so same applies Jun 29 21:45:18 mwester-trip: maybe it's write in progress? Jun 29 21:45:21 Ah, ok. Very hard to describe, but about the same as most other touch-screen devices I've dealt with. Jun 29 21:45:52 reasonably scratch resistant? Jun 29 21:46:31 ajbrun: NO Jun 29 21:46:34 i ordered a screen protector Jun 29 21:46:41 You should use a screen protector. Jun 29 21:46:44 SpeedEvil: I think this needs some more investigation; it's sounding more and more like IRC-channel "lore", and not like any known documented bugs. A write-in-progress should be ok, as a sync() is done during suspend... the issue was not (as I understand it) corruption, but rather that the device failed to resume if rootfs was on SD. Jun 29 21:46:52 mew: yeah Jun 29 21:46:52 i've only really come acorss 2 types of screen: the iphone which is like a hard glass and hard to scratch and everything else which is like a soft screen Jun 29 21:47:03 ajbrun: Take the front off, and a screen protector goes on very, very nicely. Jun 29 21:47:07 ajbrun: this is plastic Jun 29 21:47:20 mwester, agreed about it sounding like lore, that's why I asked :] Jun 29 21:47:40 I saw a thread on the community list about screen protectors, but i don't think anyone's making custom freerunner ones yet are they? Jun 29 21:47:45 Ok. I guess I'll have to add this to the list of suspend/resume things to test. Jun 29 21:48:42 I've got some that work well, that I've been offering for $8 shipped worldwide. Jun 29 21:49:03 They go on under the fascia, you remove the case - they are the silicone sort so you get no bubbles. Jun 29 21:49:05 goodwill: was the bug you found on this a generic linux kernel bug, or neo-specific? Jun 29 21:49:34 surley a screen protector wants to be on top? Jun 29 21:49:39 not underneath anything? Jun 29 21:50:08 ajbrun: it goes underneath the case - so the edges don't catch Jun 29 21:50:13 :) Jun 29 21:50:17 ahhh Jun 29 21:52:37 ajbrun: I've been using one on my neo for a while now. Jun 29 21:53:16 i will be getting one too, but are there any 'screen test' links about? Jun 29 21:53:24 Screent est? Jun 29 21:53:30 :) Jun 29 21:53:54 when the iphone was released, there were youtube vids and stuff of people showing it's scratch resistance Jun 29 21:54:08 ajbrun: ah - no, it's not that scratch resistant. Jun 29 21:54:10 or is it not worth it as it would scratch? Jun 29 21:54:11 ;) Jun 29 21:54:28 ajbrun: it will scratch minorly, but as it's easy and cheap to replace. Jun 29 21:54:49 I've had my neo in my pocket for about a month cumulative with it, and the screen protextor is just fine. Jun 29 21:55:30 good its a sturdy phone Jun 29 21:55:38 well the list said that this place was going to be making them custom, so hopefully in a few weeks when i get the phone, the protectors should be out too :) Jun 29 21:55:39 http://www.zagg.com/ Jun 29 21:59:39 see ya Jun 29 22:15:10 SpeedEvil, URL for your screen protectors? (-: Jun 29 22:15:39 paulproteus: PM me - I don't have them up on any URL Jun 30 00:06:32 Is taking the front cover off a Freerunner identical to a neo1973? Jun 30 00:09:53 is the touch screen scratch-proof on the Freerunner? Jun 30 00:10:19 depends what you're scratching with ... Jun 30 00:10:24 No. Jun 30 00:10:34 It's relatively soft plastic. Jun 30 00:10:37 tissue doesn't scratch it, but diamond would. Jun 30 00:10:45 You won't - usually - scratch it with a fingernail. Jun 30 00:11:02 But if there happens to be any gritty dust on the screen, it will scratch. Jun 30 00:11:12 it's scratch-proof-ness is somewhere between those extremes :-) Jun 30 00:55:05 openmoko: 03werner * r4504 10/developers/werner/greg/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Jun 30 00:55:05 openmoko: - use unique() also when looking up identifiers from the command line Jun 30 00:55:05 openmoko: - added regression tests for split lines, values given by formulas Jun 30 01:05:22 ah so it does scratch easily :/ Jun 30 01:05:51 mm so I should go find a screen protector of some sort Jun 30 01:06:07 I'd think it'd be like the ipod touch which is almost completely scratch resistant :O Jun 30 01:16:41 It's not. Jun 30 01:18:14 I need to get my protectors onto ebay... Jun 30 01:33:04 heh Jun 30 01:51:57 hey someone help me out with a link? i'm trying to search the mailing lists, which is painful, and i saw somebody posted a link to a website which keeps a record of the mailing list with a nice gui front and a nice search engine Jun 30 01:52:51 alphabeat, http://gmane.org/find.php?list=openmoko ? Jun 30 01:53:14 ah sweet thanks! Jun 30 01:58:01 ah couldn't find what i was after. what capabilities are there for rfid to be attached? anyone know of any rfid components that could be attached? is usb the simplest answer? Jun 30 01:59:14 alexxy: none Jun 30 01:59:17 alphabeat: none Jun 30 01:59:24 alphabeat: yes - USB or bluetooth Jun 30 02:00:22 hm, sucks that #openmoko-devel is locked. Jun 30 02:01:21 so much for open development ... Jun 30 02:04:05 ? Jun 30 02:04:19 that's locked because internal company things are discussed there Jun 30 02:04:26 oooh! Jun 30 02:04:28 u'd need an NDA to be privy to them Jun 30 02:04:30 like what... Jun 30 02:04:44 eg we will talk about spec sheets and documents we have under NDA from suppliers Jun 30 02:04:51 ah fair enough Jun 30 02:04:52 things we can't legally make public Jun 30 02:04:53 ah ... figured it was a channel to talk about programming issues related to the device. Jun 30 02:05:00 if u have an nda - than its possible Jun 30 02:05:12 anything that can be discussed openly we can discuss here Jun 30 02:05:29 also u dont want to hear us asking "so .. where are we going for lunch?" Jun 30 02:05:33 its not really that interesting Jun 30 02:05:34 :) Jun 30 02:05:38 * russellb nods Jun 30 02:05:40 heh Jun 30 02:05:42 raster: n8! Jun 30 02:05:48 jOERG_rw: j! Jun 30 02:05:53 but it's nice being able to talk about code with a lower signal to noise ratio :) Jun 30 02:06:13 russellb: true, but maybe just talk more about code Jun 30 02:06:19 maybe tyhe noise will drop off? Jun 30 02:06:24 probably. Jun 30 02:06:54 I don't have a specific question at the moment, was just joining to lurk. Jun 30 02:07:03 though I am working on some voip stuff ... Jun 30 02:07:19 got my hands on a FR from a co-worker, so I'm going to help him get things finished up Jun 30 02:07:21 russellb: we can always make the signal-noise ratio lower here. Jun 30 02:07:39 * SpeedEvil talks about ships and shoes and sealing wax, cabbages and kings. Jun 30 02:07:46 heh. Jun 30 02:08:00 zing Jun 30 02:08:04 * raster throws cabbages at SpeedEvil Jun 30 02:08:16 * russellb interceps said cabbages Jun 30 02:08:20 * russellb makes a salad Jun 30 02:08:31 * jOERG_rw hates salad Jun 30 02:08:32 but will you eat the salad? Jun 30 02:08:39 i will toss it. Jun 30 02:08:50 tosser@ Jun 30 02:08:52 is this what we're having for lunch? Jun 30 02:08:55 :) Jun 30 02:08:56 heh. Jun 30 02:09:25 so now I'm contributing to noise, how nice and hypocritical of me! Jun 30 02:10:15 :D Jun 30 02:11:10 night again, going to bed "early" today ;-) Jun 30 02:11:21 jOERG_rw: noit! Jun 30 02:11:52 how about that local sports team eh russell? disappointing loss on the weekend... Jun 30 02:11:52 yes, the matchup between the teams with the score was quite interesting Jun 30 02:21:00 * juri_ wakes up, still crabby. :P Jun 30 02:29:00 stopit:) Jun 30 02:44:31 juri_: hey hey Jun 30 02:50:05 hio. :) Jun 30 02:52:12 Has anyone actually used a GTA02 with a US carrier (AT&T of T-Mobile)? Jun 30 02:53:37 * russellb has used it with T-Mobile Jun 30 02:53:39 with success Jun 30 02:53:55 AT&T as well as T-Mobile Jun 30 02:55:41 The ASU image likes T-Mobile better than AT&T for me (registers more quickly and less cell site ping-pong, but that might be my location as well). Jun 30 02:56:16 The FSO image is the same with both. Jun 30 02:56:52 in what areas have you each used? Jun 30 02:58:10 Sorry...I mean in which region / city? Jun 30 02:58:13 my GTA01 is fine in northwest arkansas (once it GETS associated, sometimes 8 or9 reboots).. but was a useless brick in dallas, TX. Jun 30 02:59:54 whats funnier is that that defect is software specific. the qtopia flash has no problem associating. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 30 02:59:56 2008