**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 01 02:59:56 2008 Jul 01 04:50:07 How is everyone, tonight? Jul 01 04:53:27 morning Jul 01 04:55:27 morning. :D Jul 01 04:56:21 smelly Jul 01 04:57:12 i'm still beating myself senseless with an assembly book. (osmosis! osmosis! osmosis! work, damnit!) Jul 01 05:00:58 Skip the books, start coding already! Jul 01 05:01:59 you know what the problem is with the world? Jul 01 05:02:06 Yes. Jul 01 05:02:10 They don't listen to me. Jul 01 05:02:13 not enough programmers. :) Jul 01 05:02:30 no Jul 01 05:02:36 I do not have a FreeRunner Jul 01 05:02:48 see how simple Jul 01 05:02:59 I get one...the world has no more problems Jul 01 05:03:07 anti-climatic? sure? Jul 01 05:03:14 no special effects? sure... Jul 01 05:04:21 meh. its a phone, not an agenda. :) Jul 01 05:04:32 mwester: but we dont want to listen to you! :) Jul 01 05:04:37 that said.. its part of my agenda to use said phone.. :) Jul 01 05:04:42 juri_: arm asm? or x86? Jul 01 05:04:44 juri_: I disagree...its a concept Jul 01 05:04:49 (free software for the win!) Jul 01 05:05:02 juri_: why assembly again? Jul 01 05:05:05 raster: x86. i don't work on this project. :P Jul 01 05:05:13 (why am i here?) :) Jul 01 05:05:56 i'm in the middle of documenting some rather evil kernel stack manipulation in entry.S for linuxPMI. all the relevent code is written in assembly. Jul 01 05:06:24 juri_: ewwww. x86 asm. now that make me feel dirty just thinking of it Jul 01 05:07:00 raster: you should see x86_64 assembly in entry.S. they massively abused macros there. now i know what a beginner reading my C code feels like. Jul 01 05:07:04 raster: you scrub and scrub and it just won't come off eh? Jul 01 05:07:36 goodwill: i know... it's like a stain on my life! Jul 01 05:08:15 raster: so now I give n00bs here yoru speech about asu, gtk+ and the rest when they ask...;) Jul 01 05:08:21 raster: you shoudl get royalties Jul 01 05:08:37 hmm Jul 01 05:08:41 which one was that? Jul 01 05:08:41 :) Jul 01 05:08:52 i just whip these things out of my butt Jul 01 05:09:08 raster: that rant about how its about dbus and python and gtk and qt and elf and etc Jul 01 05:09:42 good morning all. i've not checked in in several months; what news on GTA1 suspend/resume/batterylife? Jul 01 05:09:51 42 Jul 01 05:09:56 i might vaguely remember Jul 01 05:09:57 :) Jul 01 05:10:10 raster: you do not have to... Jul 01 05:10:56 so what FooCamp is invitation only Jul 01 05:11:34 is that anything like ninjacon? :) Jul 01 05:11:41 who knows Jul 01 05:11:42 maybe Jul 01 05:12:27 bah Jul 01 05:12:29 foo shmoo Jul 01 05:12:55 exactly Jul 01 05:12:59 foo!!! shmoo!!! Jul 01 05:13:04 to find out where it is, you must kill your master, and his armies, in hand to hand combat. and then when you get there, you won't know it, because you won't see any of the other ninjas.. Jul 01 05:13:13 ok time to try to buidl fso Jul 01 05:13:59 saves on hotel reservation fees, however. none of the staff will ever see you to kick you out: you're a ninja! Jul 01 05:14:54 * raster tries to find a good mp3 stream to ri.. err listen to Jul 01 05:15:33 contemplates Jul 01 05:15:38 how does one build fso Jul 01 05:17:24 raster: http://img.7clams.org/aud/7/Herb%20Alpert%20And%20The%20Tijuana%20Brass%20-%20Spanish%20Flea.mp3 Jul 01 05:17:34 found a good one Jul 01 05:18:39 bah Jul 01 05:18:51 nuffin Jul 01 05:18:57 next di.fm channel... Jul 01 05:22:09 * goodwill recompiles kernel with mtd support Jul 01 05:25:08 zee beauty of gentoo Jul 01 05:27:46 raster: any idea how make an fso image from scratch? Jul 01 05:27:54 no idea Jul 01 05:27:58 never looked at fso Jul 01 05:28:02 dont do anything with it Jul 01 05:34:34 mickey|sofa: hi. any instructions out there on how to build and fso image? Jul 01 05:34:50 first you get the bit flour. add a dash of cpu cycles Jul 01 05:35:10 Hello goodwill. Jul 01 05:35:20 Dave: hi Jul 01 05:35:29 Uh oh, looks like I have awakened the Juri. Jul 01 05:35:55 Dave: you fool!!! you killed us all!!!! Jul 01 05:37:08 dave: don't worry, i'm currently distracted with an assembly book. :P Jul 01 05:39:13 Excellent! Jul 01 05:42:53 So.. Jul 01 05:43:01 Where can I buys me some Freerunnerz? ;D Jul 01 05:43:03 In the USA. Jul 01 05:43:16 Infinyte: we do not know yet Jul 01 05:43:20 heh Jul 01 05:43:22 I'm guessing no where. >_> Jul 01 05:43:22 Ah. Jul 01 05:43:33 It's funny Jul 01 05:43:35 On the site Jul 01 05:43:41 It's all "Buy from a destination near you!" Jul 01 05:43:43 And I'm all Jul 01 05:43:50 :< I'm not in Asia or Europe. Jul 01 05:44:16 Haha, I'm spamming. Sorry, I just got a promotion so I'm hyper. :D Jul 01 05:44:25 In> > Dear customer,9~ Jul 01 05:44:26 > > Jul 01 05:44:26 > > You only have 2 servers under the account of NRZ and i can ping both of Jul 01 05:44:31 wow , sorry Jul 01 05:44:36 wrong place to paste :)) Jul 01 05:44:39 Haha Jul 01 05:44:46 dont kick me! :D Jul 01 05:44:52 *Kicks you* Jul 01 05:45:00 * Zoup ouchs! Jul 01 05:45:05 Muhahaha. Jul 01 05:45:19 So, only Black Freerunners? Jul 01 05:45:22 Infinyte: i was going to say : yes ,shopping is in very bad situation Jul 01 05:45:54 Infinyte: any idea when the openmoko store will be open , do you have more options to buy ? easier/faster delivery?/ Jul 01 05:45:58 Should I anodize my personal one? Jul 01 05:46:07 Fuschia, anyone? :D Jul 01 05:46:07 Not that I'm aware of. :< Jul 01 05:46:55 zoup: i heard on the 4th, but don't quote me. Jul 01 05:47:17 Don't quote Juri. Jul 01 05:47:21 So expensiveee. >_< Jul 01 05:47:22 JURI SAYS IT WILL BE OPEN ON 4th , my new blog post subject Jul 01 05:47:29 WHAT? Jul 01 05:47:31 :P Jul 01 05:47:38 Juri says it'll be out on the 4th! Jul 01 05:47:42 :D Jul 01 05:47:47 call CNN and tell them! Jul 01 05:47:50 Obviously fact now. Jul 01 05:47:51 KAY Jul 01 05:47:53 Fuck CNN. Jul 01 05:48:01 What's their number? Jul 01 05:48:01 Dave: BBC ? fox ? Jul 01 05:48:04 zoup: go ahead. this isn't my project. and i don't care about the freerunner anyways. i already have two neo1973s. ;P Jul 01 05:48:19 juri_: why two ? Jul 01 05:48:19 Pfft, Wifi>You Jul 01 05:48:27 Gah, be right back. Pizza~ Jul 01 05:48:30 juri_: do you have any idea how store will look like ? Jul 01 05:48:32 zoup: so i always have one that works. :) Jul 01 05:48:41 juri_: bad news! :D Jul 01 05:48:50 * juri_ is actually, like, USING these things. :P Jul 01 05:49:03 i even got to phone interview with the FSF on mine. :D Jul 01 05:49:33 Nevermind, still cold. Jul 01 05:49:35 thats appropriate usage of a mostly free software phone. Jul 01 05:51:59 The Freerunner's GPS is free/open too isn't it? Jul 01 05:52:12 >Knows nothing about GPS'< Jul 01 05:52:34 close enough. Jul 01 05:53:28 The Freerunner GPS communicates over a serial port using a documented protocol. The implementation within the GPS module itself is closed. Jul 01 05:54:04 i do hate that the frerunner is as free software as one can legally get in the US. i paticularly don't like the 'you must have closed software to protect the end users from themselves' thing our GOVT insists on. Jul 01 05:54:21 but, thats a battle outside the scope of this project. Jul 01 05:54:24 Right. Jul 01 05:54:30 Like the SIM, for example. Jul 01 05:54:34 the stack code that is Jul 01 05:54:49 makes some sense from the provider's perspective, that is. Jul 01 05:58:11 * rwhitby is grateful that GSM firmware is closed Jul 01 05:58:24 Howscome? Jul 01 05:58:47 When I need to make an emergency phone call, I don't want some idiot hacking a phone to be able to bring down the GSM network I'm using. Jul 01 05:58:54 http://openmoko.com/product-qa.html < I see typo. >_> Jul 01 05:59:08 Ah. Yeah that wouldn't be good. >_> Jul 01 05:59:36 (I know the GSM protocol pretty well, and know how easy it would be to break it if you open gsm firmware was freely availably) Jul 01 05:59:45 rwhitby: sorry, thats not a valid argument in my book. make denial of servicing a gsm network illegal. its not like you cannot locate people doing it: they're using an RF device! Jul 01 05:59:57 you could also try securing the GSM protocol... Jul 01 06:00:30 juri_: in an alternate reality, where making a phone call is not a life-and-death scenario, I would agree with you. Jul 01 06:00:30 juri_: 'client side security' is always unsafe Jul 01 06:00:44 anyways, my argument is moot. its simply illegal to have an opensourced stack. Jul 01 06:00:59 (e.g. if you google me you'll find that I'm quite involved in opening the firmware of consumer devices) Jul 01 06:01:07 rwhitby: nothing stops them from simple signal jamming as well. assuming cellphones are useful for emergencies is a failure in thinking. Jul 01 06:01:53 its possible under our current system.. but it limits our freedoms. i'm against that. :/ Jul 01 06:02:19 :o Jul 01 06:02:27 assuming cell phones are not useful for emergencies is ignoring reality. Jul 01 06:02:54 you're free to create your own cellular network in the unlicensed space. Jul 01 06:03:03 reality still says i can jam your frequency. simple RF. Jul 01 06:03:03 First we could try securing juri... Jul 01 06:03:23 * Dave fetches a white coat... Jul 01 06:03:34 heck, there are people who sell frequency jammers, even. Jul 01 06:03:34 sure you can jam, but your range is limited. Jul 01 06:03:43 hacked firmware can take out a whole cell. Jul 01 06:03:59 (or possibly range of cells if done properly) Jul 01 06:04:17 either fix what can be fixed security wise, or make someone who does such logged, track them down, and fine them a shitload. Jul 01 06:04:45 juri_: I say again, feel free to create your own free cellular network. Jul 01 06:04:52 Yep! :D Jul 01 06:05:01 Who said it had to be free? ;) Jul 01 06:05:02 :P Jul 01 06:05:32 the current one works with the restrictions in place, and there is no business imperative to spend the trillions of dollars to change it's security model just so someone can have open gsm firmware. Jul 01 06:05:37 rwhitby: sorry if i stepped on a nerve. i'm a zealot, its a ocupational hazard. :) Jul 01 06:05:57 I'm an occupational hazard/ Jul 01 06:06:15 juri_: no nerve :-) Jul 01 06:06:28 no, its not a buisness imperitive. its a moral imperitive based on the rules set down by our founding.. blah blah blah. you know the speil. :) Jul 01 06:06:44 heh, pure zealot :-) Jul 01 06:06:52 * juri_ #includes standard constitutional rant #5. :) Jul 01 06:07:01 Uhm. Jul 01 06:07:09 Isn't that the one about the monkeys in the closet? Jul 01 06:07:20 I think you meant #53 Jul 01 06:07:24 rwhitby: yep. :) Jul 01 06:07:50 * rwhitby is not bound by your constitution, and is sometimes glad for it :-) Jul 01 06:08:05 juri - yeehaw. Jul 01 06:08:05 welcome to the danger of opening up most of your phone. this is now the prefered model of phone for free software zealots everywhere. Jul 01 06:08:38 actually, the neo1973 is the prefered model. the GPS is more 'open', in ways. :) Jul 01 06:08:38 openmoko is a good model - open up absolutely everything that can't bring down the network, but no more. Jul 01 06:09:06 juri_: do you run an open bios in your desktop or laptop? Jul 01 06:09:15 and an open firmware in your graphics card? Jul 01 06:09:20 Whot Jul 01 06:09:22 rwhitby: on my servers, yes. Jul 01 06:09:23 and an open microcode in your watch? Jul 01 06:09:27 You can get an Open Bios?:O Jul 01 06:09:37 and open hardware in your pacemaker? Jul 01 06:09:37 * Dave smells the trollbait Jul 01 06:09:39 i'm working with the coreboot project to open the bios on a model of laptop. Jul 01 06:09:39 linuxbios IIRC Jul 01 06:09:58 mwester: it changed names. Jul 01 06:10:01 Ah, Coreboot Jul 01 06:10:16 moreroot :D Jul 01 06:10:36 there's always a line you draw. some people draw it in different places. zealots try and convince people that where they have drawn their own line is wrong :-) Jul 01 06:10:42 rwhitby: the troll is strong with you. your point is valid, and my real response is its a "True Zealot"'s duty to battle these issues every day. :) Jul 01 06:11:25 you must push that line along. otherwise, you're living with non-freedom for the purpose of convenience, which is wrong. :) Jul 01 06:11:57 juri_: as I said before, please check my open source credentials as far as opening firmware and gpl goes. www.nslu2-linux.org is a good start. BTW, you're a good zealot, being able to remain calm and rational in the face of my taunts :-) Jul 01 06:12:07 i draw that line at "everything i can handle". Jul 01 06:12:16 thanks. i believe you. :) Jul 01 06:12:17 pfft Jul 01 06:12:18 I expect we could have a good discussion over a beer or two. Jul 01 06:12:34 sorry Dave :-) Jul 01 06:12:41 Hai Jul 01 06:12:44 Personguy Jul 01 06:12:44 i'm kinda used to it, to be honest. being a zealot has those hazards. :) Jul 01 06:12:46 I'd sit and moderate, with some sort of poppin' snack in hand :) Jul 01 06:13:03 What's the fastest Firmware for the Linksys WRT routers? Jul 01 06:13:10 openwrt Jul 01 06:13:12 heh Jul 01 06:13:55 rwhitby: i don't file those under taunts. they're positions of moral compromise. most zealots don't see that. Jul 01 06:14:01 I'm more of a The source is half-closed, person :P Jul 01 06:14:01 Faster than Tomato? Jul 01 06:14:09 * Dave smirks at Juri. Jul 01 06:14:13 and to keep things on topic, openwrt on a router with a usb port can be used to flash and usb network a Neo Jul 01 06:14:26 juri_: ones chooses what one considers morals Jul 01 06:14:38 if you're not paying attention to those spots, you're compromizing. :) Jul 01 06:15:00 superimposing your morals on someone else becomes a religious exercise. Jul 01 06:15:15 you can't force. dosent work that way. Jul 01 06:15:46 juri_: that we can agree on :-) Jul 01 06:15:49 you just try to provide an example, with documented reasoning. its for others to decide whether those reasons make sense to them. Jul 01 06:16:13 juri_: you've just disqualified yourself from being called zealot :-) Jul 01 06:16:27 Damnit. :P Jul 01 06:16:34 hahaha Jul 01 06:16:50 All aboard! Jul 01 06:17:01 toot toot Jul 01 06:17:18 Dave: wait for me! Jul 01 06:17:26 haha, okay :P Jul 01 06:17:41 Dave: god , thanks! Jul 01 06:17:53 * rwhitby runs open source "bios" on all his embedded router and NAS devices ;-) Jul 01 06:18:07 Wow, you're so cool. Jul 01 06:18:08 rwhitby: me too. commercially, even. Jul 01 06:18:33 tho, the atheros driver on my routerboards needs to be replaced with the open atheros driver. i'm still working on that. Jul 01 06:18:45 * juri_ is battling closed source software on so many lines.. Jul 01 06:19:04 juri_: what's the open bios you run on the servers? Jul 01 06:19:21 rwhitby: linuxbios, which has now changed names. Jul 01 06:19:54 actually, my main server for my municipal wireless net isn't linuxbios compatible, but i'm due to replace it with one that is... Jul 01 06:20:22 hippie :P Jul 01 06:20:29 juri_: now you have to start looking for some open-source hard drives. Jul 01 06:20:50 mmotour: one battle at a time. i'm comfortable fighting the stuff thats already on my plate. Jul 01 06:21:00 you can only work full time, after all. Jul 01 06:21:13 nu uh Jul 01 06:21:42 dave: i worked every hour i was awake last year, litearly. had four jobs at once, ALL opensource-only. THATS full time. Jul 01 06:21:58 hahaha Jul 01 06:22:53 this year, due to walmart policy changes, and a bank colapsing, the local free software job market is just gone. i'm going to have to move cross-country to find another opensource job. Jul 01 06:23:31 its just dead here, for all kinds of work, with hundreds(!!) of people fighting for every job. employers arent going to tolerate my "i do opensource, or i walk" policy. Jul 01 06:23:32 mmontour: I forgot about the hard drives. Good point. Jul 01 06:23:36 rwhitby: have you ever compiled and fso image? Jul 01 06:23:52 god damn i want my free runner! Jul 01 06:23:58 goodwill: I added support for fso-image (both full and light) to MokoMakefile in the last week. Jul 01 06:24:08 and both compile for gta02 at least. Jul 01 06:24:21 MokoMakeFile Jul 01 06:24:22 Hehehe Jul 01 06:24:27 That's so cute. :D Jul 01 06:24:35 In a geeky sorta way. >_> Jul 01 06:24:59 The hard-drive thing isn't just theoretical. There are real issues I want to fix (like disabling the head-parking on a WD drive, and forcing my laptop's Toshiba to re-map some bad sectors) Jul 01 06:25:44 mmontour: none of it's theoretical (except perhaps the pacemaker) Jul 01 06:25:44 haha, forcing it to give you head :p Jul 01 06:25:46 whee Jul 01 06:26:18 rwhitby: your site is down it seems Jul 01 06:26:55 i'm more worried about my digicam. its completely closed. i need to get a samsung. aparently, some of their models run linux. Jul 01 06:28:09 goodwill: yeah, backhoe through a cable Jul 01 06:28:20 google should have it in cache Jul 01 06:28:42 and the mokomakefile has alternate locations listed in the wiki page Jul 01 06:29:03 rwhitby: yeah, I found it...just thought I'd let you know Jul 01 06:29:24 goodwill: thx - it's been down for over 12 hours now :-( Jul 01 06:29:35 rwhitby: sorry to hear that Jul 01 06:29:40 rwhitby: why? Jul 01 06:29:53 the site it's at is on the other side of the world Jul 01 06:30:22 my mail is being handled by my secondary MX, so I'm not too concerned. my website isn't that important in the grand scheme of things :-) Jul 01 06:35:57 Hrm.. Jul 01 06:35:58 ... Jul 01 06:36:24 Eh, if I have a 1.5 MBit internet connection, shouldn't I be able to download at 1.5 MB's per second? Jul 01 06:36:34 Cause I only get like 180kb/s. :< Jul 01 06:36:40 divide by 8. Jul 01 06:36:55 Ah okay. Jul 01 06:37:05 ...What's up with that anyways? Jul 01 06:37:17 megabits, not megabytes. Jul 01 06:37:22 Ah. Jul 01 06:37:36 byte = 8 bits you know Jul 01 06:37:44 plus overhead Jul 01 06:37:49 Crazy, how do I get me one of those ISP's that let you download like 2MB per second? :\ My friend in Canada has one. Jul 01 06:38:00 Must cost a fortune. >_> Jul 01 06:38:06 get ADSL2+ annex M Jul 01 06:38:16 22MBit down, 2.5MBit up Jul 01 06:38:27 Woahsnap. Jul 01 06:38:38 Doubt there's any out here. :< Jul 01 06:38:44 thats why i admin the municipal wifi here: 20Mbit down, 20Mbit up. straight to my home. :) Jul 01 06:38:47 *Lives in the middle of a corn field* Jul 01 06:39:05 Ah well, Freerunner out yet? xP Jul 01 06:39:07 Infinyte: to reduce confusion, use "b" for bits and "B" for bytes (i.e. 1500 Mb/s = 187 MB/s) Jul 01 06:39:14 Infinyte: in fact, it is. Jul 01 06:39:32 for some people who pre-ordered through UK resellers ... Jul 01 06:39:45 Ah right, not in the US though. :< Jul 01 06:40:02 Thanks for the Mbits explination by the way guys. :D Jul 01 06:40:37 yeah, well the GSM infrastructure isn't really up to it in the US anyway, and the consumers only know how to buy subsidised phones, so it's not surprising OM doesn't care about selling them there ;-) Jul 01 06:40:54 D: Jul 01 06:43:16 rwhitby: i'd love to know why dallas ATNT makes openmokos behave like bricks. :) Jul 01 06:43:32 but, my gsm firmware isn't open. :P Jul 01 06:43:50 touche Jul 01 06:44:32 I'd love to know why my FreeRunner doesn't turn on, but I don't have the schematics ... Jul 01 06:45:12 (of course, OM didn't promise the schematics, so I knew where the line was drawn before I decided to participate in the project and accept that) Jul 01 06:46:41 rwhitby: have you looked at the kernel list lately? There's a long discussion thread about power issues. Jul 01 06:47:03 rwhitby: you probably know. there are stages in bitback build processes right? It seems rather inefficient to build everything from scratch....woudl be nice to have some things prebuilt...kinda like gentoo Jul 01 06:47:08 hi all, whats cooking Jul 01 06:47:23 mmontour: yeah, I'm expecting my gta02 is suffering the same problem, so I'm watching and waiting for their outcome Jul 01 06:48:09 Sup3rkiddo: hey...quick question for you...you built fso completely from scratch? Jul 01 06:48:10 goodwill: I didn't write bitbake or OE ... I just put a convenient wrapper around it for those that wanted to build full images (as opposed to application developers who should use the pre-built toolchain instead) Jul 01 06:48:26 rwhitby: I know...I am just asking in hope you have an aswer Jul 01 06:48:32 goodwill, na, i have been trying to Jul 01 06:48:57 cd build && . ./setup-env && bitbake fso-image Jul 01 06:49:18 Sup3rkiddo: mokomakefile seems to do it Jul 01 06:49:20 *ahem*, will be swell if the mokomakefile "*maintainers* add it :D Jul 01 06:49:23 goodwill, it does? Jul 01 06:49:28 bleh Jul 01 06:49:28 ok Jul 01 06:49:39 Sup3rkiddo: so does rwhitby says Jul 01 06:49:39 >_> Jul 01 06:49:42 i didnt know that..been a while since i updated my makefile Jul 01 06:49:44 <3 you guys. Jul 01 06:50:00 up until some hours ago, one needed to be using the OE monotone repo to build the fso image. That may be changed with the merge earlier today, or it may still be that it only builds in the OE repo. Jul 01 06:50:09 oh Jul 01 06:50:30 i did see CIA getting hysterical yesterday Jul 01 06:50:35 mwester: I'm building it from virgin mokomakefile settings for gta02 Jul 01 06:50:42 cia was offline for a while Jul 01 06:51:06 Sup3rkiddo: mm has done fso-image for a while, I added -light too earlier today Jul 01 06:51:13 Failed for me due to the python-gconf stuff being too old on OM. Jul 01 06:51:22 i had to change --device flags manually in my copy, does it mean its really old? Jul 01 06:51:27 rwhitby, ^^ Jul 01 06:51:45 well, heck only one way to find out Jul 01 06:52:40 Sup3rkiddo: ^^ is not my problem :-) talk to the OE guys. Jul 01 06:53:04 rwhitby, oh, you are not maintaining it any more? Jul 01 06:53:07 MokoMakefile's responsibility stops when bitbake has been called with the correct arguments and files. Jul 01 06:53:12 ah Jul 01 06:53:14 ok Jul 01 06:53:17 that...hehe ok Jul 01 06:55:55 Sup3rkiddo: that delineation is what makes it possible for me to even hope to spend enough time to support MokoMakefile ... Jul 01 06:56:41 rwhitby, yeah, i can empathize ;) Jul 01 06:58:54 rwhitby, just one teency feature request, when i make setup-machine-freerunner, i guess the --device flag for dfu-util should change to 0x1d50:0x5119.. Jul 01 06:59:46 Sup3rkiddo: good point - I didn't realise they were different. Jul 01 06:59:56 I'll look into taht Jul 01 07:00:09 thanks :D, Jul 01 07:02:55 rwhitby: one feature request: Freeeeeedom! Jul 01 07:02:58 * juri_ runs. :) Jul 01 07:03:44 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r25 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added flash-fr-* equivalents for flash-neo-* Jul 01 07:03:54 juri_: Jul 01 07:03:56 # "MokoMakefile" - a Makefile for setting up Openmoko builds Jul 01 07:04:03 # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or Jul 01 07:04:03 # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License Jul 01 07:04:03 # version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation. Jul 01 07:04:13 feature request granted ;-) Jul 01 07:04:13 version 2? bah. :P Jul 01 07:04:19 * juri_ laughs. :) Jul 01 07:04:38 * juri_ works hard on re-earning her zealot membership. :) Jul 01 07:05:40 free enough. i'll go back to reading my non-free assembly book now. :) Jul 01 07:06:00 Hey where's the OpenWRT guy? Jul 01 07:06:00 >_> Jul 01 07:06:16 Infinyte: perhaps in #openwrt ? Jul 01 07:06:23 xD Jul 01 07:06:43 >_> There's an #openwrt room? Jul 01 07:09:10 good morning Jul 01 07:09:33 morgen :) Jul 01 07:21:26 hmmm Jul 01 07:21:38 openembedded has something like packaged-staging Jul 01 07:24:24 I need to learn more about openembed Jul 01 07:39:44 arg! i would like to purchase a freerunner in USA. tantalizingly close! Jul 01 07:40:01 T_T Jul 01 07:49:44 morning Jul 01 07:59:20 morning Jul 01 08:00:57 I would also like to buy a freerunner in the USA Jul 01 08:17:16 openmoko: 03zecke * r5ccc621d92b2 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [x11] Small oversight and mark the window properly Jul 01 08:17:17 openmoko: 03zecke * r2d902ac4dc2c 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [callhistory] Updating it once should be enough Jul 01 08:17:17 openmoko: 03zecke * r389272760c11 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Update the widget directly instead of the event filter hooks Jul 01 08:17:18 openmoko: 03zecke * r1774ed5b333d 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Elide the number label as well Jul 01 08:17:21 openmoko: 03zecke * r082e8f101b13 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] Disable printing performance numbers Jul 01 08:17:24 openmoko: 03zecke * r70e8c35087f6 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] If we layout in the paintEvent then ignore the clipping Jul 01 08:18:29 openmoko: 03zecke * r5ccc621d92b2 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [x11] Small oversight and mark the window properly Jul 01 08:18:29 openmoko: 03zecke * r2d902ac4dc2c 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [callhistory] Updating it once should be enough Jul 01 08:18:30 openmoko: 03zecke * r389272760c11 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Update the widget directly instead of the event filter hooks Jul 01 08:18:31 openmoko: 03zecke * r1774ed5b333d 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Elide the number label as well Jul 01 08:18:36 openmoko: 03zecke * r082e8f101b13 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] Disable printing performance numbers Jul 01 08:18:39 openmoko: 03zecke * r70e8c35087f6 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] If we layout in the paintEvent then ignore the clipping Jul 01 08:20:24 damn Jul 01 09:14:43 hi, has anybody managed to get the openmoko-devel-image or the openmoko-qtopia-x11-image to compile for the x86 arch? i get errors no matter what git branch i choose. if i choose the dev tree the build fails at the linux kernel, if i choose the aus.dev/stable it fails at ecore with an error about unkown symbols in glibc. Jul 01 09:16:44 though i haven't got the dev kit yet posting the exact errors and the build output would help Jul 01 09:17:07 Yep, built it yesterday Jul 01 09:18:19 i will post the excat output, one moment please Jul 01 09:20:09 you can find the output here : http://www.pastebin.ca/1059786 Jul 01 09:20:44 this happens during make openmoko-devel-image Jul 01 09:21:09 i followed the wiki regarding the build process Jul 01 09:27:11 can i somehow prevent the kernel from being build? because for emulation purposes i won't need it anyway Jul 01 09:30:50 g'morning Jul 01 09:35:06 When installing one library to toolchain , it's asking dependency package , so after installing dependent package I compiled it again but same error is coming Jul 01 09:37:20 morning Jul 01 09:38:16 more like afternoon over here :) Jul 01 09:39:15 nearly noon here Jul 01 09:39:37 in UGT (http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html) it is always morning when someone joins :P Jul 01 09:40:46 aah, good to know Jul 01 09:41:27 havent spent that much time on international channels :-) Jul 01 09:41:57 good morning then :) Jul 01 09:43:23 anyone has a vid of the software that you now get when you buy a free runner Jul 01 09:43:41 lukhas: Waiting... to ... hard... can't... breathe :-p Jul 01 09:43:55 s/ to / too / Jul 01 09:43:56 Ainulindale meant: lukhas: Waiting... too ... hard... can't... breathe :-p Jul 01 09:46:29 Mek: thx :D Jul 01 11:14:10 when im building a sample gtk package on moko, im getting the error like " In function `_start': | init.c:(.text+0x30): undefined reference to `main' . Jul 01 11:15:29 do you not have a main function kvk? Jul 01 11:17:56 Sonicadvance1, the code is at URL: http://rafb.net/p/SyHCy272.html Jul 01 11:21:37 morning folks Jul 01 11:24:27 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r28a197c5a775 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the callscreen/theme improvements Jul 01 11:24:27 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r85ddb1fbd93c 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum of elfutils Jul 01 11:24:28 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r93924e8e1003 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add prelink checksum for the normal mirror Jul 01 11:24:29 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re4df4234ac7b 10/packages/python/python-pyxdg_0.15.bb: [python] Add pyxdg to use fdo specs from python Jul 01 11:24:32 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0dcb1a5a8940 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pyxdg, matches the debian source Jul 01 11:25:37 er, moment and I'll see if I can help :D Jul 01 11:32:01 sonicadvance1: the bb file is in URL: http://rafb.net/p/yVQyG119.html Jul 01 11:36:50 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r964f767c178b 10/odeviced/ (6 files in 2 dirs): input plugin rewritten now Jul 01 11:36:51 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rb6cee9465300 10/odeviced/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Jul 01 11:36:51 freesmartphone.org: Revert "input plugin rewritten now" Jul 01 11:36:51 freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit 964f767c178ba0942f2de328381377b1e03e2c71. Jul 01 11:36:51 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r4d5b50ffcb31 10/odeviced/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Jul 01 11:36:55 freesmartphone.org: Revert "Revert "input plugin rewritten now"" Jul 01 11:36:57 freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit b6cee94653003dcfcdba17923c0e190ab9369d9a. Jul 01 11:40:15 ah, dunno, I just followed the tutorial on the wiki and it compiled the sample app Jul 01 11:42:21 is CIA-46 a bot ? Jul 01 11:42:24 yes Jul 01 11:42:34 HauDyrArb, damn you are sharp ;0 Jul 01 11:42:46 yeps Jul 01 11:42:57 :) Jul 01 11:43:55 and it shows each time something is committed in git or what Jul 01 11:45:54 keen powers of observation you've got there. ;) Jul 01 11:46:58 wow Jul 01 11:47:01 someone noticed Jul 01 11:47:04 amazing Jul 01 11:47:28 =) Jul 01 11:47:33 And here I was thinking he could just type 10000 words per minute Jul 01 11:47:50 Does anybodye have a solution to emulate bluetooth traffic to qemu ? Jul 01 11:48:04 -e Jul 01 12:21:26 Can't seem to find how to emulate bluetooth.. Jul 01 12:39:17 Hmmm hcitool doesn't like to scan :-) Jul 01 12:39:34 Ainulindale: I don't know qemu. Jul 01 12:39:57 Ainulindale: can you tell linux/it to give it a USB port? Jul 01 12:40:04 hey all Jul 01 12:40:14 can anyone tell me where i can buy a freerunner in europe today? Jul 01 12:40:17 <-- jay vaughan from the list. Jul 01 12:42:43 http://openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html Jul 01 12:42:45 tada Jul 01 12:42:54 yeah i guess handhelds-linux is the spot Jul 01 12:43:06 too bad i missed the pulster order window, would've saved 70 euro's .. Jul 01 12:43:07 not sure who has them in stock right at this moment Jul 01 12:43:25 I got mine from truebox in the uk Jul 01 12:43:25 anyway, thanks for the hint, i'll wait a week or two i suppose. Jul 01 12:43:48 in the meantime i just put scaredy's new image on my gta01, and did 'opkg upgrade' only to be told i've run out of space on / .. wtf? Jul 01 12:44:22 any way to work around this? Jul 01 12:44:50 no idea I am afraid Jul 01 12:45:16 but I seem to recall seeing some posts on one of the mailing lists about it Jul 01 12:47:20 is there some way to tell opkg to do an 'integrity' check and re-install any packages that failed? Jul 01 12:47:40 because now i've freed up space, i want to complete the previous upgrade operation, but i can't be sure if some of the previous packages were properly installed or not .. Jul 01 12:47:56 so the question is whether i can make opkg do an integrity check of installed packages and re-install any that failed.. Jul 01 12:48:58 I don't know enough about opkg to help :( I would hope though that it would only mark them as installed if they actually completely installed Jul 01 12:49:16 ok i'm going to just hack around .. thanks anyway Jul 01 12:49:38 hopefully i'll have a fully upgraded machine shortly. i think by deleting /home/root/gllin, i got enough free space to complete the upgrade step. Jul 01 12:49:52 looks like the scaredy image installed the gllin package for me automatically, and that caused the upgrade problem. Jul 01 12:50:23 torpor: you can buy one from bearstech (France) Jul 01 12:50:35 Ainulindale: ok. any idea how much? Jul 01 12:50:46 in France, 328 euros Jul 01 12:50:56 there's an international shipping fee though Jul 01 12:50:57 ok Jul 01 12:51:01 bearstech.com/shop Jul 01 12:51:05 yeah that could be too much for me. Jul 01 12:51:09 But you've got the pouch, headset, stylus.. Jul 01 12:51:15 i'm going to try to organize a 10-pack order in the meantime though .. Jul 01 12:51:29 I stopped waiting for that last week Jul 01 12:51:35 Nobody was active Jul 01 12:51:50 And besides lukhas from bearstech perverted me Jul 01 12:53:03 Does anybody happen to know if the python import contact script should work on OM/FSO/ASU ? Jul 01 12:53:10 wish ScaredyCat was around .. Jul 01 12:53:13 !seen ScaredyCat Jul 01 12:53:14 torpor, ScaredyCat is right here! Jul 01 12:53:41 Where can I buy the FreeRunner from there http://bearstech.com/english Jul 01 12:54:03 http://bearstech.com/shop CVirus Jul 01 12:54:18 oh thanks Jul 01 12:54:21 I don't think there's a translation Jul 01 12:54:28 But as I'm french I can help you with that if necessary Jul 01 12:55:25 thanks .. google translate :-) Jul 01 12:55:35 Aouch Jul 01 12:55:42 I see that you like to get spanked Jul 01 12:55:57 hehe Jul 01 13:00:16 CVirus, i ordered mine from handhelds-linux Jul 01 13:00:35 you got it yet ? Jul 01 13:00:42 nope Jul 01 13:01:08 Failed to open connection to session message bus: dbus-launch failed to autolaunch D-Bus session: Autolaunch requested, but X11 support not compiled in. Jul 01 13:01:11 Hmpf. Jul 01 13:01:17 maby in two weeks Jul 01 13:03:55 Wizzard, g'day mate Jul 01 13:04:08 Is it normal to have this kind of error ? Jul 01 13:06:56 * N-Mi is wondering why he hasn't received any confirmation for his order on pulster.de Jul 01 13:07:48 coz they don't have any Jul 01 13:07:54 i also have the same problem. Jul 01 13:09:10 torpor: have you ordered your FR right after pulster's announce on community mailing-list ? Jul 01 13:09:36 HauDyrArb: how did you buy from handhelds-linux ? Jul 01 13:10:16 Now I have a nice looking "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.openmoko.Dialer was not provided by any .service files Jul 01 13:10:27 I'm lucky :-/ Jul 01 13:11:13 CVirus, http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner&referer=[Shop] Jul 01 13:11:18 Hi , I am trying to build moko on my ubuntu 8.04 hardy;it is giving error /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr is not 0. I don't want to mess up with sys file,what should i do? Jul 01 13:11:33 HauDyrArb: thanks Jul 01 13:11:46 can somebody help? Jul 01 13:13:26 CVirus, i choose handheld because they take Visacard (safer) Jul 01 13:15:59 no one else accepts credit cards ? Jul 01 13:16:22 We don't have paypal in Egypt Jul 01 13:16:43 349 euros or esterling ? Jul 01 13:16:58 nope pultser is bank transfer Jul 01 13:17:08 damn Jul 01 13:17:34 intl. bank transfers suck Jul 01 13:17:42 at least here (CZ) they do Jul 01 13:17:48 else there is openmoko.com shop i think it taks credit card Jul 01 13:17:56 HauDyrArb: not open Jul 01 13:18:12 but when it opens :-) Jul 01 13:19:38 Please, someone able to explain to me why dbus-send is unable to find the openmoko services ? Jul 01 13:23:53 cozub: intl. bank transfers might suck but europeanwide transfers don't Jul 01 13:24:39 well, here even eu-wide, although those suck a bit less than out-of-eu Jul 01 13:25:02 When I build my application , package dependency errors are coming , so I cross compiled that packages and installed but it's not taking those and giving same depend errors Jul 01 13:25:13 Any one help me Jul 01 13:26:18 N-Mi: yes i did do that order then but its too late. Jul 01 13:31:25 torpor: I've place my order 30 minutes after pulster's anounce on the mailing list, it's hard to believe I was too late Jul 01 13:31:47 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r580ea782bc67 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.c input.h): remove input.c and input.h Jul 01 13:34:07 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r7377b7a02676 10/src/zhone: zhone: Use the new GetStatus API Jul 01 13:36:56 moko moko moko Jul 01 13:37:32 Dave: Moko ? Jul 01 13:37:34 Moko ! Jul 01 13:37:37 (Ook ?) Jul 01 13:37:41 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rd1e648dcf282 10/framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.py: oeventd: convert the ledAction to a VibratorReceiver Jul 01 13:37:41 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r090e4422b35f 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: odeviced: also change PowerSupplyApm to export GetEnergyPercentage instead of GetChargingPercentage Jul 01 13:38:16 Can't understand why I'm not able to use dbus-send, grmpf ! Jul 01 13:38:47 ook jij? Jul 01 13:39:16 Dave: What ? Jul 01 13:40:23 Sorry, I thought we were speaking Dutch for the moment :p Jul 01 13:40:30 hi Jul 01 13:40:52 Nope, I was quoting Pratchett's librarian Jul 01 13:41:40 Pratchett's librarian probably speaks Dutch fluently. (Toch?) Jul 01 13:42:46 ik zie... ~_~ Jul 01 13:43:05 :D Jul 01 13:43:14 one question about the gps .. i'm running scaredy's image, and trying out tangogps .. does it take some time to find a gPs position, or whats the deal? Jul 01 13:43:23 Yes. Jul 01 13:43:25 Yes, it does. Jul 01 13:43:28 You have 01 or 02? Jul 01 13:43:30 coz gllin is installed and all that, but cat /tmp/nmeaNP does not seem to return any text Jul 01 13:43:34 gta01 Jul 01 13:43:36 It can take a minute or so to find satellites. Jul 01 13:43:46 torpor: Ok - your GPS is not on or something is misconfigured. Jul 01 13:43:49 All hail galileo ! Jul 01 13:43:51 torpor is the GPS device running? Jul 01 13:43:58 how do i tell? Jul 01 13:44:00 Hello Speedy :) Jul 01 13:44:06 torpor: Look round the tangogps device for a tangogps script. Jul 01 13:44:12 torpor: to start gllin and gpsd Jul 01 13:44:22 Also make sure GPS is powered on :P Jul 01 13:44:25 torpor: then you just go to 'config' and hit 'start gpsd and gllin' Jul 01 13:44:32 well, i pressed the 'start gpsd and gllin' button. Jul 01 13:44:40 and gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP shows up in ps ax .. Jul 01 13:44:42 torpor: that won't work unless you've installed the script Jul 01 13:44:43 but .. gpsd ? Jul 01 13:45:03 yes Jul 01 13:45:10 okay well its running on the device. Jul 01 13:45:14 but still returning nothing. Jul 01 13:45:22 go outside? Jul 01 13:45:26 No. Jul 01 13:45:27 there is some way to start up the gps device? Jul 01 13:45:39 yes Jul 01 13:45:39 i'm outside! :) my other gps is working. (becker) Jul 01 13:45:39 torpor: wander outside for a few minutes. Jul 01 13:45:41 :D Jul 01 13:45:44 torpor: ah Jul 01 13:45:55 do i have to do some /proc magic to turn on gps? Jul 01 13:45:56 torpor go to the "power menu" Jul 01 13:45:59 ok Jul 01 13:45:59 no no Jul 01 13:46:01 torpor: yes Jul 01 13:46:03 it's rather quite easy ;) Jul 01 13:46:08 hold the power button :p Jul 01 13:46:15 Select Turn on GPS Jul 01 13:46:16 torpor: there is a nice 'on' script on the tangogps site. Jul 01 13:46:17 it says 'turn off gps' Jul 01 13:46:21 that would mean there's a gps on Jul 01 13:46:26 right :P Jul 01 13:46:48 well i'll keep trying Jul 01 13:46:54 torpor: strace gpsd Jul 01 13:47:06 torpor: see if it's reading anything from gllin Jul 01 13:47:30 It should be reading stuff like $WHATEVER,3m3,3,3,3,,2,43,36,..9$ Jul 01 13:47:44 oh shit Jul 01 13:47:48 i think i know what the problem is. Jul 01 13:47:55 my microsd card is formatted VFAT. Jul 01 13:47:59 this mans the links are borked. Jul 01 13:48:04 o.O Jul 01 13:48:07 +e Jul 01 13:48:39 can someone send me the contents of /media/card/root/gllin/lib so i can see the links and hack them up myself? Jul 01 13:49:07 I would, but I forgot to put myu phone back on charge. Jul 01 13:49:12 Ask me again in a few hours. Jul 01 13:49:27 gah Jul 01 13:49:28 ;) Jul 01 13:49:32 heh Jul 01 13:49:39 I don't use Gllin, so I can't help :p Jul 01 13:52:18 never mind i'll just format the card and start again .. ;) Jul 01 13:52:39 aww Jul 01 14:05:00 Crap, one of my devices will not POWER ON. :| Jul 01 14:05:51 is it beacuse of the battery? Jul 01 14:06:01 Unsure, it is possible :] Jul 01 14:06:16 The worst part so far is you never know when the device is charging. Jul 01 14:08:34 anyone know how i can umount /media/card? it seems to be 'busy', though i can't find whats got a file open on it .. Jul 01 14:08:50 dave, maby http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger can help Jul 01 14:09:13 eh? Jul 01 14:09:36 Fortunately for myself, I care not, since I can easily swap it out with another device :p Jul 01 14:09:42 Though it's worth investigating further :P Jul 01 14:09:48 At a later time. Jul 01 14:12:14 :( Jul 01 14:12:14 haha fast charging... Jul 01 14:12:33 * Bish still dont own his freerunner.. even with preorder :( Jul 01 14:12:40 s/dont/doesnt Jul 01 14:12:42 ok Jul 01 14:12:48 nobody knows how to umount /media/card? Jul 01 14:13:02 umount /media/card Jul 01 14:13:02 :P Jul 01 14:13:13 if it fails, try lsof /media/card Jul 01 14:13:21 to see what is still hanging on to it Jul 01 14:13:27 Bish: me too, lets suffer together... :/ Jul 01 14:13:34 * Bish suffers Jul 01 14:13:36 lsof doesn't exist Jul 01 14:13:52 Tanuva: i preodered in 27.05 !!! Jul 01 14:14:21 Bish: I did it exactly one month later Jul 01 14:14:29 damnit Jul 01 14:14:51 and dont get it on 7.5. either :/ Jul 01 14:14:59 ah, 5.6. Jul 01 14:15:01 5.7. Jul 01 14:15:10 cant type anymore ;) Jul 01 14:15:13 3.14! Jul 01 14:15:43 zash: u ordered yours 14th march? Jul 01 14:16:16 no Jul 01 14:16:28 I'm quite happy with my Neo1973 currently, don't have much time to tinkering anyway Jul 01 14:16:36 Bish: PI Jul 01 14:16:55 * zash haven't orderd yet Jul 01 14:17:52 I'm thinking on waiting for a better device, 03 perhaps? Jul 01 14:18:05 03 is better in very limited ways. Jul 01 14:18:17 It will have no 2D/3D accelerator. Jul 01 14:18:28 if it has atleast EDGE, I'm interested in some way Jul 01 14:18:41 But that's not as good as it was thought - and this may be a wash - given the low performance and faster CPU Jul 01 14:18:47 It has the same GSM Jul 01 14:18:54 *sigh* Jul 01 14:18:59 meh Jul 01 14:19:08 :D Jul 01 14:19:09 It may have some crappy camera? heh. Jul 01 14:19:14 :DD Jul 01 14:19:29 I'll stick with my USB camera for now, thanks. Jul 01 14:19:29 GTA03 drops the 2d/3d accelerator, which has turned out not to be very great - and adds a camera. Also the case changes in unrevealed ways. Jul 01 14:19:46 To accommodate this shitty addition. Jul 01 14:19:49 SpeedEvil: .. will it have opengl? Jul 01 14:19:50 No doubt :D Jul 01 14:19:51 Cameras - even crappy ones are very useful. Jul 01 14:19:56 yeah yeah Jul 01 14:20:02 Wonderful. Jul 01 14:20:04 SpeedEvil: cameras are useful for what? Jul 01 14:20:09 seems that I should look at other directions for a new mobile device in the future Jul 01 14:20:13 Mug shots, reportedly. Jul 01 14:20:37 Bish:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Camera Jul 01 14:20:37 Otherwise, nothing, if the lens is shit. Jul 01 14:20:53 Wishlist: DRIVERS. Jul 01 14:21:06 SpeedEvil: will it have opengles .. the gta03? Jul 01 14:21:09 Barcodes, taking pictures of stuff to ask people about. Jul 01 14:21:18 Bish: it's simply a framebuffer, a dumb one. Jul 01 14:21:33 Bish: you can put whatever software you want on it Jul 01 14:21:51 SpeedEvil: a framebuffer? oO Jul 01 14:21:59 even on gta04? Jul 01 14:22:00 Yes Jul 01 14:22:03 haha Jul 01 14:22:08 gta05? Jul 01 14:22:10 i thought there was something like a driver for X xD Jul 01 14:22:22 gta03 :P Jul 01 14:22:30 I hear the GTA06 will have a flux capacitor. Jul 01 14:22:38 Dave: stop kidding me :P Jul 01 14:22:39 :P Jul 01 14:22:47 Hey, you started it! Jul 01 14:22:48 GTA04 is not fixed hardware yet. However, it is scheduled to have a SoC which supports natively 2D accelleration, whihc will remove all of the acceleration problems. Jul 01 14:23:05 SoC? Jul 01 14:23:09 Bish: you know what a framebuffer is? Jul 01 14:23:21 GTA04 is not fixed hardware yet. However, it is scheduled to have a SoC(CPU) which supports natively 2D accelleration, whihc will remove all of the acceleration problems. Jul 01 14:23:53 SpeedEvil: yeah i think i know, u just put pix0rz into the memory of the chip and it displays it Jul 01 14:24:02 Bish: yeah - dumb. Jul 01 14:24:23 so the freerunner has a framebuffer Oo? no .. gfx driver? Jul 01 14:24:24 :p Jul 01 14:24:31 Bish: no - that's 03 Jul 01 14:24:32 freebufer :P Jul 01 14:24:39 what does 02 have? Jul 01 14:24:45 Bish: freerunner has the Glamo accel chip Jul 01 14:24:51 Yes Jul 01 14:24:57 Bish: which has turned out not to be very accelerating. Jul 01 14:25:04 Haha, correct! Jul 01 14:25:18 Bish: as it's basically connected over a 16 bit ISA bus. Jul 01 14:25:18 but comes with some neat bloat games :P Jul 01 14:25:27 SpeedEvil: ou shit :D Jul 01 14:25:33 frequency? Jul 01 14:25:55 crappy 02 :D but i still want to have it Jul 01 14:26:04 Yes Yes! Jul 01 14:26:07 Bish: 7 megabytes/second. And if you use all of that, you get 0% CPU left. If you use 3.5M/s, you get 50% CPU legt Jul 01 14:26:16 Bish: that also counts for SD. Jul 01 14:26:18 Yep! Jul 01 14:26:20 oh god :D Jul 01 14:26:23 As SD shares the bus. Jul 01 14:26:23 would u buy a freerunner? Jul 01 14:26:32 haha Jul 01 14:26:38 Bish: I cannot at the moment, due to cashflow problems. Jul 01 14:26:48 but u would? Jul 01 14:26:55 Bish: I'm at the top of a really high mountain, and it's flowing away. Jul 01 14:27:02 * SpeedEvil wants wifi. Jul 01 14:27:25 * Bish wonders if there is a wlan AP on the top of the high mountain Oo Jul 01 14:27:34 heehee Jul 01 14:27:36 * Tanuva buys the freerunner because of gps+wifi+"itsa linux phone!" Jul 01 14:27:44 hah! Jul 01 14:27:46 Yay Jul 01 14:27:56 hm.. and i wont play videos with freerunner? Jul 01 14:27:59 I wont use it as a phone very much.. Jul 01 14:28:06 * Dave contemplates DOOM running on the freerunner. Jul 01 14:28:19 * Bish wants to play moon-buggy on it Jul 01 14:28:22 yeah moon-buggy Jul 01 14:28:26 DOOM will actually work. Jul 01 14:28:32 :D Jul 01 14:28:40 Bish: you can play video. Jul 01 14:28:49 Tell me more! Jul 01 14:28:56 ok Jul 01 14:29:05 Dave: :D do u own a freerunner? Jul 01 14:29:10 yay! Jul 01 14:29:11 Several Jul 01 14:29:23 now i've got an ext2 filesystem on /media/card and it looks like gllin is installed properly. Jul 01 14:29:26 but still no gPS lock. Jul 01 14:29:30 hmm Jul 01 14:29:37 i should be seeing things if i cat /tmp/nmeaNP right? Jul 01 14:29:41 is it finding any satellites, or communicating with them? Jul 01 14:29:54 Yes, even if they are empty strings of crap data. Jul 01 14:30:00 torpor: yes Jul 01 14:30:01 because it cannot find a fix/position. Jul 01 14:30:06 uploading partition rootfs... no progress bar on dfu_util. Had 2 cups of coffee meanwhile :-/ Jul 01 14:30:16 what happens if you strace the gllin process? Jul 01 14:30:17 ok Jul 01 14:30:20 joerg, heh yup, should take 13minutes or so Jul 01 14:30:29 depends on the system, usb a little too I believe Jul 01 14:30:43 * jOERG_rw is going to have an afternoon nap Jul 01 14:30:50 SpeedEvil: if do strace /home/root/gllin/gllin? Jul 01 14:30:51 :] Jul 01 14:31:01 i just got an idea for GTA04 include a FPGA Jul 01 14:31:11 Man, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with Gllin anymore :P Jul 01 14:31:22 dave: :P fptt. Jul 01 14:31:24 Haudyrarb, hah! Jul 01 14:31:31 torpor :P Jul 01 14:31:40 gllin works like a charm :) Jul 01 14:31:47 meh Jul 01 14:31:57 FPGA eats power :-( Jul 01 14:32:01 no kidding :P Jul 01 14:32:07 SpeedEvil: .. will 03 be able to show videos? Jul 01 14:32:08 Om NOM NOM NOM Jul 01 14:32:09 HauDyrArb, yes, and that V8 Jul 01 14:32:13 w00t! Jul 01 14:32:15 it can presently do so Jul 01 14:32:17 this means something right? Jul 01 14:32:17 root@om-gta01:/media/card/root/gllin# cat /tmp/nmeaNP Jul 01 14:32:17 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78 Jul 01 14:32:17 $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 Jul 01 14:32:18 torpor? :D Jul 01 14:32:20 Yep! Jul 01 14:32:23 There you go :P Jul 01 14:32:29 :DD Jul 01 14:32:35 Walk around a bit Jul 01 14:32:47 See how many satellites you see/use Jul 01 14:32:49 tangogps doesn't seem very smart. Jul 01 14:32:59 Bish, http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ Jul 01 14:33:12 satellites: 0/0 Jul 01 14:33:14 :( Jul 01 14:33:47 but there are all sorts of strings being spewed into /tmp/nmeaNP .. Jul 01 14:33:52 so tangogps isn't reading them? Jul 01 14:33:59 * jOERG_rw stops nap to throw in anothe dfu-cmdline for DOWNload, then goes back zzZZzz Jul 01 14:34:21 yeah mtv mjr Jul 01 14:34:43 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ra7acd6517e46 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 174. Jul 01 14:34:44 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf6357204c59a 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of splinter to 438 Jul 01 14:35:22 is there somewhere i can paste these lines from nmeaNP and see them parsed on a map? Jul 01 14:37:57 :P Jul 01 14:38:12 torpor, yeah that's just empty data most likely 99 99 99 Jul 01 14:38:18 because it cannot get a fix :x Jul 01 14:38:26 try walking around outside a bit Jul 01 14:38:41 sometimes with mine I think it's fucked up, I just hit reconnect to gpsd and walk around for a while Jul 01 14:38:41 is this empty data? Jul 01 14:38:41 $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 Jul 01 14:38:49 $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78 Jul 01 14:38:50 and after about five minutes it sometimes gets pos Jul 01 14:38:53 doesn't look like it to me .. Jul 01 14:39:06 I get like 13/12 SAT on my sidewalk Jul 01 14:39:12 heh Jul 01 14:39:47 but i will be happy with preencodering videos? Jul 01 14:39:57 Sure :D Jul 01 14:40:01 That's what I do Jul 01 14:40:19 ah i c :) cool Jul 01 14:40:26 with the glamolib? Jul 01 14:40:41 torpor: yes Jul 01 14:40:50 torpor: $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 Jul 01 14:41:02 torpor: Teh ,,, is where the position goes. Jul 01 14:41:15 right :P Jul 01 14:41:27 am i right in thinking the media player is currently broken? Jul 01 14:41:33 $GPGGA,065851.00,5613.022358,N,00306.725817,W,1,05,1.0,158.0,M,0.277000,M,-0.010 Jul 01 14:41:33 0515,*7C Jul 01 14:41:38 SpeedEvil: thanks, so it is working. just not tangops. Jul 01 14:41:42 torpor: no Jul 01 14:41:43 oh. i see. Jul 01 14:41:47 torpor: that's not a valid position Jul 01 14:42:01 torpor: that means that gllin is working, but cannot get a position. Jul 01 14:42:09 torpor: have you taken it outside for a bit to get lock? Jul 01 14:42:17 i am outside!! :) Jul 01 14:42:20 torpor: ah Jul 01 14:42:23 my other GPS sees satellites. Jul 01 14:42:35 torpor: there have been reports of units with broken GPS Jul 01 14:42:45 torpor: try killing and restarting gllin Jul 01 14:44:02 ok Jul 01 14:44:12 not too good i'm afraid Jul 01 14:44:12 man Jul 01 14:44:20 this is making me re-think if i want a freerunner or not. Jul 01 14:44:24 oh yeah and don't run tangogps for too long :P Jul 01 14:44:25 the freerunner > gta01, right? Jul 01 14:44:40 gta02 Jul 01 14:44:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player Jul 01 14:45:04 all i'm saying is, does it make sense to get a freerunner in light of all the problems with neo1973? Jul 01 14:45:10 Is an overview of my understanding of the current staqte of freerunner and neo1973 video performance Jul 01 14:45:18 is the battery better with freerunner Jul 01 14:45:20 torpor: You decide. Jul 01 14:45:24 or is it the software? Jul 01 14:45:26 yeah .. Jul 01 14:45:29 ahven: there is nothing wrong with the battery. Jul 01 14:45:36 Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. Jul 01 14:45:45 well, the power management then Jul 01 14:45:58 Will it possible to by FreeRunner in Russia? Jul 01 14:46:08 Kattyo: trisoft.de Jul 01 14:46:15 oh man. Jul 01 14:46:16 so no hardware fixes in gta02 regarding PM? Jul 01 14:46:24 gah. Jul 01 14:46:29 <-- disappointed. Jul 01 14:46:36 ahbritto: a totally different power architecture Jul 01 14:47:23 ahven: ^^^^ was for you Jul 01 14:47:32 ahven: the problem is not hardware in either case. Jul 01 14:47:32 yup Jul 01 14:47:46 SpeedEvil: it is hardware in GTA01 case Jul 01 14:47:55 XorA: ? Jul 01 14:48:11 SpeedEvil: too much stuff wired directly to the battery, so there is no software control Jul 01 14:48:11 XorA: are you talking about the serial overrun problems? Jul 01 14:48:25 XorA: that's not a problem Jul 01 14:48:28 SpeedEvil: erm, no power, sorry, crossed lines Jul 01 14:48:42 XorA: with modem powered down, and it turned 'off' - it uses a few microamps only. Jul 01 14:49:08 SpeedEvil: but on gta01 it cant enter deep sleep and still work in GSM mode, it can on gta02 Jul 01 14:49:35 XorA: It can - sometimes - and AIUI mwester has a kernel that works. Jul 01 14:49:50 SpeedEvil: GTA01 modem will never deep sleep AFAIK Jul 01 14:49:57 SpeedEvil: I mean the actual modem itself Jul 01 14:50:30 XorA: Due to software AIUI. However, that sets a ceiling on battery life of 40h with GSM on. Jul 01 14:50:41 XorA: which is not at the moment even closely approached. Jul 01 14:50:45 Dave: (upload) still running, got a 170MB-backup file now Jul 01 14:51:37 :( Jul 01 14:51:56 Still nobody here to explain to me why I can't use dbus-send (unknown service) and whether it is possible to emulate bluetooth traffic or not ? Jul 01 14:52:30 Sorry - no clue. Jul 01 14:54:06 For dbus-send, I exported DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, DISPLAY and it simply won't work because of the "unknown service" org.openmoko.Dialer Jul 01 14:54:19 I surely did something wrong, but as I don't know dbus... :-) Jul 01 14:59:08 XorA: Mickeyl told me that in the gta01, gsm firmware > 4 or 6 (he wasn't sure which) *did* deep sleep Jul 01 15:02:12 wurp2: but AFAIK we cant allow public to reflash :-( Jul 01 15:02:38 XorA: is it as that exposes the firmware image? Jul 01 15:02:51 SpeedEvil: Ive no idea of the legals Jul 01 15:02:51 XorA: and would let users upload their own? Jul 01 15:02:54 k Jul 01 15:03:18 SpeedEvil: I suspect its GSM rules, we used to have similar stupidities about SIM designs Jul 01 15:03:50 XorA: Yeah, mine has already been flashed to after that version Jul 01 15:04:12 XorA: It used to be that Michael Shiloh would do it if you just shipped it to him, is that not still the case? Jul 01 15:04:27 And was this discussion about FR? I would think they would already be > v. 6 Jul 01 15:04:31 wurp2: no Jul 01 15:04:33 wurp2: 01 Jul 01 15:05:06 wurp2: not a convenient arrangement for .eu people :-) Jul 01 15:05:18 FR is v8 I think Jul 01 15:05:32 XorA: heh, true... could you not get an OM employee in the EU set up to flash? Jul 01 15:05:42 That's what my 01 is Jul 01 15:05:46 (v8) Jul 01 15:05:53 wurp2: cool Jul 01 15:06:04 * XorA should really work out how to do the flash here Jul 01 15:06:39 SpeedEvil: I thought the issue with letting the end-user flash is that the DRM protecting the gsm from disapproved updates is in the flash process, and with the flash program you could put whatever you want in the firmware Jul 01 15:06:58 I would have thought it would make more sense for the gsm to only accept signed images, though Jul 01 15:07:23 and sign them at the factory, of course Jul 01 15:07:36 on SIMs we had all sorts of stupid rules to obey about exposing COMP128 algorithm, even though CCC had published it on their website Jul 01 15:07:39 wurp2: what's in practice, and what's reality... Jul 01 15:07:56 XorA: That's awesome Jul 01 15:08:00 wurp2: I note the programming and hardware docs are out there. Jul 01 15:08:23 Like when it was illegal to export encryption algorithms with too many bits in the key from the US Jul 01 15:08:36 wurp2: unless it was on paper :-) Jul 01 15:08:55 As if the texts describing exactly how to implement it (not to mention existing implementations from other countries) were already out there Jul 01 15:09:18 What's the problem for .eu people with the firmware ? Jul 01 15:09:22 everyone knows Al Quade cant read :-) Jul 01 15:09:29 Ainulindale: for everyone - with GTA01 Jul 01 15:09:30 XorA: I was fuzzy on whether literal implementations were allowed even on paper Jul 01 15:09:36 Ainulindale: a big chunk of water called the Atlantic Jul 01 15:09:39 Ainulindale: it uses more power than it might Jul 01 15:09:48 XorA: Better don't let it fall in it then Jul 01 15:09:56 SpeedEvil: and no problem with the GTA02 ? Jul 01 15:10:01 Ainulindale: no Jul 01 15:10:06 Good for me then. Jul 01 15:10:08 Ainulindale: it's later fuirmware. Jul 01 15:10:14 wurp2: published books it seems were a first amendment right in the USA Jul 01 15:10:16 Ainulindale: The only way currently to get your firmware updated is ship it to Michael Shiloh Jul 01 15:10:20 wurp2: computer code wasnt Jul 01 15:10:32 wurp2: what a pain in the ass Jul 01 15:10:33 XorA: silly legislature Jul 01 15:10:37 (not Michael, the process) Jul 01 15:10:42 heh Jul 01 15:10:52 So it's a legal problem ? Jul 01 15:11:02 Because it seems to me that with other phone it's kind of possible Jul 01 15:11:10 I mean I had a nokia which firmware I could flash Jul 01 15:11:10 Ainulindale: I had to send mine to him early on - it wasn't compatible with any AT&T SIM I could lay my hands on Jul 01 15:11:28 (Or so it seems) Jul 01 15:12:07 But right now we're sure it works with a large number of telcos and SIM types, right ? Jul 01 15:13:09 we will hear in a few days when FR bug reports start to flood in Jul 01 15:13:21 Eeeek Jul 01 15:13:27 or not flood Jul 01 15:13:29 I hope so because if that's not the case I'm dooooomed Jul 01 15:13:30 as may be the case Jul 01 15:13:35 Dooooooooooooomed Jul 01 15:13:54 Ainulindale: The FR shouldn't have the issues the gta01 did Jul 01 15:13:56 apart from the recamping phones, they seem to be ok so far, and all the recampers were early prototypes Jul 01 15:13:56 My nokia is slowly dying Jul 01 15:14:03 This was a gta01 thing Jul 01 15:14:11 * XorA has one broken and one working FR Jul 01 15:14:16 It already has a safety procedure to eject the battery each time I happen to take it in my hands Jul 01 15:14:33 that's awesome! Jul 01 15:14:37 Ainulindale: protection against Sony batteries Jul 01 15:14:39 (I don't know how I broke the cover...) Jul 01 15:14:45 (But seriously it sucks) Jul 01 15:16:58 So as there's able people here (:->), anybody knows if bluetooth contact transfer has been implemented, and if not, if it would be difficult to implement ? Jul 01 15:17:14 Because I decided it would be a nice way for me to begin doing development Jul 01 15:17:50 And I don't want to re-enter manually all the contacts of my present phone Jul 01 15:17:56 Ainulindale: It is not implemented Jul 01 15:18:06 Ainulindale: Go learn bluez :-) Jul 01 15:18:31 wurp2: Don't need that, I already have the blUuuueEeeZzzz. Jul 01 15:18:38 * Ainulindale scratches his guitar Jul 01 15:18:55 Ainulindale: I'm not sure, though, there might be an existing higher-level implemented communication protocol that would be better Jul 01 15:19:05 (one that runs over bt) Jul 01 15:19:06 I hope bearstech will receive their shipment soon enough Jul 01 15:19:30 wurp2: someone (don't know who) developed a little script to import contacts from SIM Jul 01 15:19:35 I was planning to do the same kind of thing Jul 01 15:19:48 I.e. reading vCard over bt Jul 01 15:19:54 Ainulindale: That was me Jul 01 15:19:59 wurp2: Nice work then :-p Jul 01 15:20:11 Although a chinese guy did a better implementation, integrated into the gtk contact app Jul 01 15:20:29 Ainulindale: Heh, thanks... it was simple stuff, and it doesn't handle i18n Jul 01 15:20:47 Heh ! Those chinese guys, always stealing your code in order to participate to the community, what the heck ! Jul 01 15:20:48 Or rather, it wasn't built to handle i18n; it might handle some internationalized stuff by luck Jul 01 15:20:56 What an idea, participate :-p Jul 01 15:21:13 wurp2: you mean accents and so on ? Jul 01 15:21:24 Ainulindale: Yeah, non-ascii characters Jul 01 15:21:47 My friends are ASCII compatible. Jul 01 15:21:57 So I don't think it will be a problem Jul 01 15:23:11 Ainulindale: Actually, if you can get the vcard sent over, you could use my code to insert it into the contact app... Jul 01 15:23:19 But I was willing to try to use the dbus services manually, and didn't manage to :-/ Jul 01 15:23:24 wurp2: yep Jul 01 15:23:30 That was my plan Jul 01 15:23:32 Stop reading my mind Jul 01 15:23:46 but, it uses the, er, don't remember the name, db used by the openmoko-contacts2 or whatever the app name is, not sure if that is of any use going forward under the ASU Jul 01 15:24:18 I thought the dbus services were shared by ASU/FSO/OM Jul 01 15:24:32 Ainulindale: That is complicated Jul 01 15:24:52 Then please explain it to me :-) Jul 01 15:24:57 Ainulindale: if you want to do new and original and actually useful development, you should check out FSO stuff Jul 01 15:24:57 The old GTK stack dbus interface was temporary, I think Jul 01 15:25:02 wurp2: yes Jul 01 15:25:07 The new FSO dbus is the way to go Jul 01 15:25:17 ASU is an evolutionary dead end Jul 01 15:25:23 Is it usable as is ? (FSO) Jul 01 15:25:33 XorA: ! Jul 01 15:25:45 XorA: You're with OM, no? Jul 01 15:25:49 wurp2: yes Jul 01 15:25:50 (Can I check out FSO using mokomakefile in my present repository checkout ?) Jul 01 15:26:02 wurp2: but ASU was supposed to be a quick hack to get working phone Jul 01 15:26:04 XorA: That's the first time I've heard such a sentiment from someone within OM Jul 01 15:26:10 wurp2: FSO was always the way forward Jul 01 15:26:14 XorA: That's what I thought at first Jul 01 15:26:33 one day ASU stuff may sit on FSO Jul 01 15:26:37 XorA: But it seems that at least the ui tk ports in ASU would be useful going forward Jul 01 15:27:03 Tk ? Jul 01 15:27:05 * Ainulindale shakes Jul 01 15:27:07 wurp2: E wont go away, whether qtopia is more useful than Qt I dont know Jul 01 15:27:29 wurp2: as we would through all the gsm bits of qtopia away to sit on FSO Jul 01 15:27:41 So, can I just modify my makefile to check out FSO knowing I already checked out and built OM ? Jul 01 15:27:45 Ainulindale: tk = toolkit Jul 01 15:27:49 sorry Jul 01 15:27:58 I can breathe again :-) Jul 01 15:28:03 we havent gone insane enough yet to swith to tcl/tk Jul 01 15:28:31 XorA: Yeah, that's what I've been wondering about - usefulness of Qtopia going forward, if we're moving to fso Jul 01 15:28:48 wurp2: remeber mickeyl is the dude Jul 01 15:28:58 :-) Jul 01 15:29:12 OK, I think all of that is good news Jul 01 15:29:29 well I suppose qte/fso on framebuffer would still make a nice device Jul 01 15:29:38 Is there a MokoMakefile setup for building fso? Jul 01 15:29:42 qte did zaurus well for many many year Jul 01 15:29:48 wurp2: that was my question :-p Jul 01 15:29:49 wurp2: should be rwhitby added it Jul 01 15:29:59 XorA: Excellent, thanks Jul 01 15:30:05 But there's nothing on the wiki Jul 01 15:30:17 beware though, mickeyl says only milestone releases of FSO are stable, others are totally random Jul 01 15:30:41 XorA: so what is the way to begin development on FSO ? Jul 01 15:30:51 XorA: Yeah, I've kind of been thinking of pulling stuff into my own repository, that I would manually update Jul 01 15:31:38 and trying to build a hybrid fso/asu/2007.2 image that lets you make stable calls, gives the old 2007.2 app functionality, and lets you run the ASU ui-toolkit-port enabled goodness Jul 01 15:32:01 wurp2: well FSO is the same E toolkit as ASU :-) Jul 01 15:32:03 (and which would pour you coffee ?) Jul 01 15:32:13 Of course, it's probably a pipe dream - I have 3 kids and a job, so I only find bits of time to do stuff Jul 01 15:32:27 Ainulindale: and give sweet lurvins Jul 01 15:32:43 Ainulindale: Well, it seems almost all the pieces are there. A little glue and a repository with careful control on what updates go in could make it good Jul 01 15:33:01 Or you could use the std repository and just use labels, or whatever passes for labels in git Jul 01 15:33:06 * wurp2 is git ignorant. Jul 01 15:33:14 wurp2: yep, but as I said before, for my humble part, I have no clue on how to start, even to get FSO Jul 01 15:33:35 Ainulindale: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ Jul 01 15:33:36 I'm fairly new to moko, and it's been a while since I followed close enough a FLOSS project Jul 01 15:33:52 Ainulindale: Well, pull down standard MokoMakefile stuff, then write some scripts to dig around in git history looking for rwhitby's fso stuff :-/ Jul 01 15:34:04 Then put it on the wiki so other people can get at it more easily Jul 01 15:34:20 make fso-image :-) Jul 01 15:34:34 With mokomakefile ? Jul 01 15:34:34 XorA: Ah, that shouldn't be too hard :-) Jul 01 15:34:52 Ainulindale: AFAIK the latest makefile should have that target Jul 01 15:34:53 XorA: I'm gonna go throw that on the wiki Jul 01 15:35:05 XorA: yep but don't we have to get sources from another repository ? Jul 01 15:35:10 I would double check first, maybe I just crazu halicinate Jul 01 15:35:18 (nope, you're not hallucinating) Jul 01 15:35:20 Well, I'm at work, so I can't really Jul 01 15:35:22 Ainulindale: makefile does all for you Jul 01 15:35:34 Hmmm there's a conf file for mokomakefile if I remember correctly Jul 01 15:35:40 Where you have to indicate the git branch Jul 01 15:36:17 And I suppose this conf file should be used to get the latest milestone sources Jul 01 15:36:29 But then, hey, I did man openmoko and it didn't find anything :-p Jul 01 15:38:33 Right now the make fso-image did donwload e17 libs seemingly Jul 01 15:38:56 But as to launch the fso-image within qemu I have no clue Jul 01 15:40:05 Oh, an error Jul 01 15:47:58 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r4c08e051d809 10/frameworkd/ (15 files in 3 dirs): Add dummy frameworkd to keep up with fso Jul 01 15:49:03 Ainulindale: The build process will likely take hours Jul 01 15:49:43 ( or weeks as with my case Jul 01 15:49:45 ) Jul 01 15:49:47 Ainulindale: And to launch it in qemu, there's a flash.sh out there somewhere - if you find that script & look at it to see where it gets the image, and either put your fso image from your build out there, or update the script to point to your image, you should be good Jul 01 15:49:58 oh man I did not realize there were multicollored lets on openmoko Jul 01 15:50:12 Sup3rkiddo: Oh, I meant if it works at all. I worked on a build off & on for weeks before giving up Jul 01 15:51:01 yeah Jul 01 15:51:58 Does anyone know if there is a VM image out there somewhere with the right sw installed to do the build? Jul 01 15:52:06 hello Jul 01 15:52:16 I thought I heard there was one, but it was a passworded zipfile or something, and no one knew the password Jul 01 15:52:35 Or maybe it was the primary user login pwd that wasn't known Jul 01 15:53:14 wurp2, even if it existed i am pretty sure its archaeic Jul 01 15:54:31 Good point Jul 01 15:54:32 today i played a little with libgmsd-tool and get a segmentation fault when i try to list the sms (command "sl") Jul 01 15:54:42 noon: I do too Jul 01 15:54:44 how can i track down the error? Jul 01 15:54:55 Unfortunately libgsmd-tool is legacy Jul 01 15:55:04 well, gsmd is legacy Jul 01 15:55:22 noon: I just fished for my smses Jul 01 15:55:33 okey. what is the new shiney tool for that stuff? Jul 01 15:55:38 noon: Grabbed #1, then 2, until I got an error Jul 01 15:55:47 noon: The FSO dbus interface Jul 01 15:55:53 noon: And mickeyterm Jul 01 15:56:54 this is not included in the scaredycat image you gave me? Jul 01 15:57:44 noon: No :-( Jul 01 15:58:00 noon: That's in the fso Jul 01 15:58:07 noon: The sw is all in flux now :-( Jul 01 15:58:42 what is this "fso"? Jul 01 15:58:58 noon: But you can do the fishing like I was talking about earlier to get your smses in libgsmd-tool Jul 01 15:59:02 Hey, another failure Jul 01 15:59:14 wurp2: I haven't seen any sw that is not in any kind of flux ;o) Jul 01 15:59:33 wurp2: I just thought the repository was different Jul 01 15:59:40 noon: this should help clear things up : http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 01 16:00:20 But either way, it fails Jul 01 16:00:24 noon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework Jul 01 16:00:33 wurp2: (I built OM yesterday by the way) Jul 01 16:00:53 noon: That's because I pointed you at the ScaredyCat image, because it works (with some slight stabilitiy issues) Jul 01 16:01:13 noon: Sorry, disregard the last; I misread your message Jul 01 16:01:35 noon: And Tig|'s link for fso is probably better than mine :-) Jul 01 16:01:41 Seems there's a 404 for some package Jul 01 16:03:02 thanks both of you. i will read now the two pages :-) Jul 01 16:05:06 cvs update: Updating doc Jul 01 16:05:06 404 Not Found Jul 01 16:05:25 I had a play with the snapshot of the ASU earlier it was looking good, called the house phone on it, it is really coming along :) dropped down the frame rate and the speed picked up quite a bit :) Jul 01 16:05:26 NOTE: Task failed: Fetch failed: e17/libs/emotion Jul 01 16:05:59 http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/e17.libs.epsilon_anoncvs.enlightenment.org__20080630.tar.gz <= Jul 01 16:07:30 Different name... Jul 01 16:07:38 What the heck Jul 01 16:08:37 It's trying to find cached tarballs of the cvs versions it's fetching; if they don't exist it goes to cvs instead. NBD. Jul 01 16:08:59 Yep but it doesn't go to CVS apparently Jul 01 16:09:13 Tig|: What issues did you have w/ ASU? Jul 01 16:09:13 interesting about the gsm firmware flash. Jul 01 16:09:20 He's apparently trying to open ~/.cvspass Jul 01 16:09:41 Ainulindale: Maybe you need to cvs login? Jul 01 16:09:47 cvs login to what ? :-) Jul 01 16:09:49 i just got home after taking my gta01 for a spin with scaredy's latest image, and am happy to finally have a tangogps log file to use for osmething interesting .. ;) Jul 01 16:10:05 Ainulindale: Whatever repository it's trying to get into ;-) Jul 01 16:10:10 It's not very useful torpor. Jul 01 16:10:19 torpor: I don't think anything will import that. Jul 01 16:10:25 Yep, but if I knew what repository it tries to get me into, I would already be trying that :-p Jul 01 16:10:32 torpor: I just got it to spit out a NMEA copy to /media/card Jul 01 16:10:34 SpeedEvil: its the first time i've ever had gps working reliably on this stupid piece of junk since i got it, so i'm just glad to have it. i can make do with the data. Jul 01 16:10:37 torpor: You could use the gsm.gz log... Jul 01 16:10:50 wurp2: did not wake up after going to sleep was the biggy, but a few niggles like entering contact details, the keyboard currently lacks a delete key and also rather amusingly a number pad when you are on a phone field :) Jul 01 16:11:09 argh. Jul 01 16:11:10 godamnit. Jul 01 16:11:18 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 Jun 25 09:39 20080625_093928.log Jul 01 16:11:18 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 25 10:38 20080625_103857.log Jul 01 16:11:20 torpor: Wow, gps has been pretty easy for me... after getting gllin on the *#$! thing Jul 01 16:11:22 Tig|: who needs to dial on a phone anyway ? :-) Jul 01 16:11:42 Tig|: Can you make a stroke to the left to delete? Jul 01 16:12:09 It does sound as if ASU is coming along Jul 01 16:12:22 Ainulindale: oh there was on the phone app but not on the contacts, I don;t think me typing zero one five four etc etc would work Jul 01 16:12:35 :-p Jul 01 16:12:41 here is what i want to be able to do with the gta01: use it as a phone if needed, but not as its primary use. use it as a gprs gateway over USB and bluetooth for whatever else i have that will do USB and bluetooth. use it as a web browser. put squid on it, so i have my own local cache of data that goes over the GPRS. run GPS all the time and tell me where the device is, 100% of the time. browse the web. take calls. make them. send sms when necessar Jul 01 16:12:49 wurp2: did not seem to work also you could not highlight text in the imput field to type over it Jul 01 16:13:24 i believe this thing can be made to do all of the above, already. so maybe its time to fork om and make my own image, just like scaredy. ;) Jul 01 16:13:55 torpor: The ScaredyCat image can do all that, can't it? Jul 01 16:14:00 Except squid Jul 01 16:14:22 And you'd have to do some scripting/routing work to get usb & bt gateway going, but afaik all the sw is there Jul 01 16:14:34 Tig|: Those are minor issues compread to before :-) Jul 01 16:14:39 afk, lunch Jul 01 16:14:46 dunno, haven't got there yet, but if it can do all of that, i'm gonna make it do all of that, and then back up the image and forget about any future OM releases. ;) Jul 01 16:15:25 Well I've echoed "anonymous" to ~/.cvspass and it seems to do the trick Jul 01 16:17:04 Ainulindale: Heh, good thinking Jul 01 16:17:38 torpor: The caveat is that you will only have 5 hours battery life, max, running gps all the time Jul 01 16:17:48 And that's if you underclock a bit Jul 01 16:17:53 Really afk now :-) Jul 01 16:18:09 Man it's hot in there Jul 01 16:18:24 Don't go to France, it's like an oven Jul 01 16:20:00 mais non, il fait bon Jul 01 16:20:11 <_HansDietae_> http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/4499618/ Jul 01 16:20:17 jamais content ces francais :) Jul 01 16:20:20 nevor: Noooon :-) Jul 01 16:20:30 Moi j'aime bien quand il fait frais :-) Jul 01 16:27:05 I'm soooo eager to develop on the freerunner Jul 01 16:27:17 I'm almost sure I won't manage to do a thing but hey... Jul 01 16:28:55 Ainulindale: this is where I am starting out : http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2008/07/01/openmoko-freerunner-test-application/ :) Jul 01 16:29:28 Nice :-) Jul 01 16:29:42 But first I would like to be able to come up with a working fso image... Jul 01 16:29:57 Seems to me like a fairly necessary beginning :-) Jul 01 16:32:51 Ainulindale: 33°C here in Germany/Nuernberg - that's free air Jul 01 16:33:18 Yep, free as in free hot and sour beer Jul 01 16:33:25 I prefer my air free AND fresh Jul 01 16:33:32 (As in "guinness" fresh) Jul 01 16:45:36 <`pwgen`> mwester:ping Jul 01 16:55:12 will neo freerunner be available in canada? Jul 01 16:55:40 You'll have to order it from the US, but it will work in Canada. Jul 01 16:56:43 ok, when would I be able to order one? Jul 01 16:57:09 July 7 is the current guess Jul 01 16:57:25 July 7? that's good!! thanks! Jul 01 16:57:33 there will be announcements though, right? Jul 01 16:57:42 sure Jul 01 16:57:49 just wait till the topic changes Jul 01 16:57:56 :D Jul 01 16:57:56 or check moko.com store Jul 01 16:58:00 :( Jul 01 16:58:02 :)* Jul 01 16:58:07 hi, can someone please clarify the warranty of group sales? i saw that the question was posted on the mailing list but couldn't find an answer there. Jul 01 16:58:23 thanks mmontour and TAsn Jul 01 16:58:38 anyone knows when pulster is sending out emails with payment instructions? (atleast that's what I could make up from the german email) Jul 01 16:58:42 fengshaun, sure thing. Jul 01 16:59:46 is there a place in the wiki where shops are mentioned / reviewed? Jul 01 17:00:01 although maybe a wiki would be the best for those :) Jul 01 17:00:06 wouldnt Jul 01 17:00:38 well if they are on the openmoko site you can be semi sure they aren't scammers ;) Jul 01 17:01:03 Pjj, well it IS a wiki :) Jul 01 17:01:06 but i agree Jul 01 17:01:25 * SpeedEvil shudders. Jul 01 17:01:35 FSO image built ! Jul 01 17:01:37 also is someone in here from the switzerland group order, who is responsible for it and is it working out ok? Jul 01 17:01:43 (in respect of the porn spammers on the wiki back in the day) Jul 01 17:03:26 it sucks big time that i probably won't have a freerunner until the end of july Jul 01 17:04:27 so how do group orders work? do all of the people give the money to one person to make the order? Jul 01 17:05:04 Qwell: basicly however a group agrees to do it. Jul 01 17:05:45 so no one knows anything about pulster.de ? aka when they are shipping and or sending mails with payment instructions Jul 01 17:06:22 Pjj, yeah, i was also checking out there page, but no ssl stuff to enter my information Jul 01 17:06:36 otherwise i would have ordered already Jul 01 17:06:44 their* Jul 01 17:06:56 Pjj: i heard some people got confirmation from pulster for their order. I guess the other didn't make it for the first shipment.... Jul 01 17:07:05 working does wonders for the brain when coming home :) Jul 01 17:07:41 henkie: you don't enter anything finacial at pulster.de... they only accept what i guess is called wire transfer in english. Jul 01 17:07:54 textshell, i know, but it still put me off Jul 01 17:08:12 to qoute a part from their email : "Sie erhalten bei manueller Bearbeitung dann eine zweite Email mit Informationen zum Versand und Zahlung und Bankdaten. Bis dahin bitte etwas Geduld und viel Vorfreude ... Jul 01 17:08:12 " Jul 01 17:08:25 site is also ugly as hell, you i thought there was a slight chance of scammers Jul 01 17:08:32 you -> so Jul 01 17:09:16 they sold neos and i didn't hear any complaints on the mailing list. Jul 01 17:09:49 i see, that's always good to hear Jul 01 17:10:21 i am also seeing the wiki is full of ppl who are ordering from them Jul 01 17:10:22 henkie: if you're in doubt you should do some basic research... Jul 01 17:10:39 textshell, that's why i am here Jul 01 17:10:46 afaik they are the cheapest in europe Jul 01 17:10:48 this is my standard recon :) Jul 01 17:37:46 How can I be sure I'm running FSO ? Jul 01 17:39:45 Ainulindale: the welcome screen has (i think) some blue background and four buttons, at least that's what i hear Jul 01 17:40:14 Well then despite the fact that I built fso-image and flash-qemu-local with mokomakefile, I didn't manage to have FSO Jul 01 17:42:40 Ainulindale, look at a http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf Jul 01 17:43:00 that's asu Jul 01 17:43:07 not fso Jul 01 17:43:41 Basheri, oops my mistake Jul 01 17:45:16 hehe :D, well everyone makes mistakes in this matter (it was quite confusing before that clarification post) Jul 01 17:46:46 yea Jul 01 17:58:44 hi all! Jul 01 17:59:07 Anyone know if its possible to implement secure conversation w/ the current hardware? Jul 01 17:59:25 hmm, how linux operating system is suppose to read , sim card information and r-uim? Jul 01 17:59:35 rafael2k: not over gsm. Jul 01 18:00:00 textshell: what hardware modification should I do to make it possible? Jul 01 18:00:00 joss: via the gsm modem's protocol. Jul 01 18:00:19 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * re5bbe24bd9e4 10/frameworkd/ (15 files in 3 dirs): Jul 01 18:00:19 freesmartphone.org: Have a simple python script exposing ListObjectsByInterface under Jul 01 18:00:19 freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.frameworkd Jul 01 18:00:20 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r550d194df1a6 10/frameworkd/ (frameworkd.conf frameworkd.py): oops, add the python script and dbus system.d conf for real Jul 01 18:00:20 rafael2k: add umts maybe. If you're lucky that would work. Jul 01 18:01:05 Incorrect. You can do encrypted voice over gsm-data Jul 01 18:01:16 rafael2k: well i'm not sure, the details are on the mailling list. But there's no way to use encryption over gsm voice mode or grps i was told. Jul 01 18:01:31 mjr: i forgot that one. Jul 01 18:01:54 (and that's how many others like cryptophone do it) Jul 01 18:02:05 (well, I don't know about many) Jul 01 18:02:07 anyway... Jul 01 18:02:14 isn't there a large lag? Jul 01 18:02:15 mjr: Can I route the voice to pass to a software I wrote? Jul 01 18:02:20 rafael2k, yes Jul 01 18:02:21 textshell: well i have not seen a single ppp configuration that indicates that ruim for cdma is red from somewhere else than from users input:( Jul 01 18:02:51 mjr: wow, that is really great!!! Jul 01 18:02:58 rafael2k, but if you're thinking about doing analog encryption or something that sends encrypted voice over a gsm _voice_ call as opposed to data, don't Jul 01 18:03:27 mjr: why? Jul 01 18:03:49 joss: cdma? freerunner is in the gsm world only. Jul 01 18:03:51 mjr: I'm thinking about sending encrypted voice data over a normal voice call Jul 01 18:04:05 raff: you basically can't do that. Jul 01 18:04:11 rad: it's a common question. Jul 01 18:04:12 you can't bypass the gsm voice codec, and you can't push enough data through it Jul 01 18:04:23 That's not strictly accurate. Jul 01 18:04:31 But, it's _horribly_ complex. Jul 01 18:04:33 just forget it, do support for gsm-data calls Jul 01 18:04:39 The fundamental problems are: Jul 01 18:05:09 A phone-phone call has two codecs in the signal path, which can't be picked by the user. Jul 01 18:05:27 mjr: Is it easy to make a hardware modification to by-pass the gsm voice codec? Jul 01 18:05:30 There are bit errors injected in at least two places between these. Jul 01 18:05:51 raff: that only bypasses your codec, not the network-side one. Jul 01 18:06:01 textshell: yes, well it was more a linux and gsm, linux and cdma question, for gsm -- perhaps this asterisk reads sim cards Jul 01 18:06:06 hummm Jul 01 18:06:37 but lets suppose there are two modified open mokos in a normal voice call Jul 01 18:06:49 I said forget it Jul 01 18:06:49 (sorry, I'm tired of people having the same plan over and over again) Jul 01 18:06:52 rafe: What this ends up as is the only way to send data at a reasoanable speed over GSM with real errors is to put a speech-synth driven by a datastream on one end. Jul 01 18:06:59 rafael2k: doesn't work Jul 01 18:06:59 rafael2k: gsm module is closed anyway. Jul 01 18:07:00 :) Jul 01 18:07:23 rafael2k: you have the network-side codecs that you can't bypass Jul 01 18:07:24 joss: what are you trying to do? Jul 01 18:07:57 textshell, data over voice Jul 01 18:08:30 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rea25d8a143b2 10/frameworkd/ (frameworkd frameworkd.py): change filename and filemode Jul 01 18:08:34 more spesifically, voice over data over voice Jul 01 18:08:37 SpeedEvil: thats it, a soundmodem in both sides, scrambling the voices Jul 01 18:09:02 rafael2k: 1.3Kbits/second can be achieved using a data-driven vocoder, and 'speech' recognition at the far end. Jul 01 18:09:27 textshell: i am trying to understand how, ppp reads gsm's or cdma's card information, or it is managed by kernel module? Jul 01 18:09:40 You cannot simply scramble the voice, as the codecs are designed to throw away non-voice sounds. Jul 01 18:09:42 SpeedEvil: 1.3Kbits/s is great Jul 01 18:09:57 rafael2k: yes - that's only gotten by extreme complexity. Jul 01 18:10:11 SpeedEvil: but I would scramble the voice respecting the codec filters Jul 01 18:10:18 rafael2k: You can't Jul 01 18:10:31 joss: for data via mobile phone your one stop for communication with the sim is the gsm-modem (or whatever mobile network you use modem) Jul 01 18:10:38 rafael2k: Unless it sounds voice-like, the codec discards the data. Jul 01 18:10:58 rafael2k: especially in the presence of any bit errors at all. And there will always be bit errors. Jul 01 18:11:05 joss: in the case of the Freerunner, some AT extensions over a serial port to the calypso. Jul 01 18:11:58 SpeedEvil: but using a soundmodem software, that modulates the scrambled voice using a common sound card, I could pass the codec band filters, right? Jul 01 18:12:25 textshell: funny thing is, all cdma modems, come with ruim slot, but while ppp'ing username and password are needed, so how does user know them? Jul 01 18:12:34 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r4b1a9cd07488 10/odeviced/src/plugins/display/ (display.c display.h): remove display .c/.h, they will be generated anyway Jul 01 18:12:46 hello Jul 01 18:12:49 * mjr wonders how many times SpeedEvil has had to explain this Jul 01 18:12:59 sorry guys Jul 01 18:13:32 let's say, i want to fix the segmantation fault in the libgsmd, what do i need and where do i get it? Jul 01 18:13:57 I hope gnuradio people do implement the gsm stack ;) Jul 01 18:14:33 joss: because their provider has a nice website with the tarifs and the information or sends sms with the needed data. Jul 01 18:14:33 noon: just your keyboard, gdb and the compiler Jul 01 18:15:00 it's no different than any other program debugging wise Jul 01 18:15:20 i installed gdb on the device, but that doesn't give me a clou where to look. Jul 01 18:15:45 for the compiler: do i have to go through all this compiling stuff with bb? Jul 01 18:15:52 textshell: well aren't there some ppp implementations that can read the data from ruim? Jul 01 18:16:19 joss: i don't know ruim. But for sims, i don't think that commonly stored there. Jul 01 18:16:33 lasttime i did, it took me 10hours an in the middle of it i got some strange symbol version issue i could fix Jul 01 18:17:05 SpeedEvil, you aren't really talking to me, right? :) Jul 01 18:17:48 textshell: well the case for me is, i would love to buy openmoko, but internet here is offered via cdma, which would be superior, for embedded usage, low cost and reasonably fast:( Jul 01 18:18:22 joss: cdma? forget it. Freerunner only supports wlan, gsm and gprs. Jul 01 18:18:49 and bluetooth! :] Jul 01 18:19:00 joss: but, cdma is not open Jul 01 18:19:08 textshell: i absolutely do not know, how arbitary devices can be registered with networks, since the company does not offer ruim cards, neither passwords, only it's own devices that are somehow hardcoded, one lan router, and one usb modem:( Jul 01 18:19:28 yeah, don't wait up for an open cdma device Jul 01 18:19:49 joss: sorry, you got the wrong company for anything free than. Jul 01 18:20:11 textshell: yeah sadly that covers all the country here Jul 01 18:20:44 textshell: phones that could do cdma450mhz smartphones are there, but how to connect to networks none knows Jul 01 18:21:12 I think I'll implement secure comunication using cw modulation and vocoder in both sides Jul 01 18:21:27 textshell: yeah the only smartphone i found that can do 450mhz , is sadly not linux one, vm5 Jul 01 18:21:58 the gsm codec will not rip-off the morse code :) Jul 01 18:22:20 textshell: wifi seems pointless, it's coverage maximum is patented to 250m, wimax makes more sence Jul 01 18:22:25 joss: switch provider, petitions the FCC or something like that. There's nothing an open phone can do if your provider doesn't allow other phones on the network. Jul 01 18:22:35 sure you can do very slow data with things like morse code or just dtmf Jul 01 18:22:35 joss: end of story. Jul 01 18:22:52 note: wimax sucks Jul 01 18:23:03 yeah what zash said Jul 01 18:23:25 wifi certainly doesn't make sense for being reliant on for phone purposes, but at least it still has many uses :] Jul 01 18:24:56 textshell: but based on what they could allow some other phones to the network, registering the connection after some phones serial number? Jul 01 18:25:36 or just username password, then 10users could use those same ones Jul 01 18:25:37 joss: i hardly know enough about gsm, i don't know anything about your situation. Jul 01 18:26:51 a local energy company has wimax here Jul 01 18:27:59 zash: here also northern part of the country is covered, i do not know anything of this standard's auth methods also, and seems openmoko does not support that one also Jul 01 18:29:28 raff: sorry - no. Jul 01 18:29:38 ;) Jul 01 18:29:54 rafael2k: there are _no_ band filters Jul 01 18:29:56 why didnt someone come up with a simple upgrade to gsm, that makes it faster Jul 01 18:30:13 zash, oh like edge? Jul 01 18:30:21 yea Jul 01 18:30:22 but better! Jul 01 18:30:28 rafael2k: the GSM codec works out the state of a model of the human throat that needs to be used to generate a given sound, then transmits this. Jul 01 18:31:08 rafael2k: If the human throat cannot produce a given sound, it's typically _really_ badly coded by the codecs. Jul 01 18:31:10 or, convice cities to install free wifi-nodes everywhere! Jul 01 18:32:58 SpeedEvil: good to know that, thats why a vocoder would perform better than any other modulation, right? Jul 01 18:33:21 rafael2k: yes - it's as that's the only thing the codec is designed tocode. Jul 01 18:33:54 rafael2k: it's like a typist - if you get them to type text, they are quite accurate. If you present them with a binary file of a JPEG, they are likely to be very inaccurate. Jul 01 18:36:04 textshell: but can you imagine, how the provider knows what device, tries to connect to networks, what information is sent there, do not know cdma, but for gsm? Jul 01 18:36:38 joss: NO. did you try wikipedia or google? Jul 01 18:36:42 textshell: for instance lan access, perhaps this could be mac address, what about phones Jul 01 18:36:53 SpeedEvil: OK, thanks! now I can start my research on this topic :) Jul 01 18:37:21 textshell: or perhaps some cable modems serial number even Jul 01 18:37:25 joss: the sim card Jul 01 18:37:28 joss: in case of gsm Jul 01 18:37:53 rafael2k: There was a link to a paper on this topic posted in the channel. Look at PDF files linked to from here Jul 01 18:38:02 Though I forget where the logs are. Jul 01 18:38:04 !logs Jul 01 18:38:04 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Jul 01 18:38:05 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Jul 01 18:38:06 Live-logs are available at Jul 01 18:38:07 zash: yeah, i guess there is no gsm service without sim card, but there seems to be cdma ones, without ruim cards, which is confusing Jul 01 18:38:09 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Jul 01 18:38:11 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Jul 01 18:38:11 joss: for cdma, there can be something similar to the sim-card, or, built into thee phone Jul 01 18:38:12 * SpeedEvil points at cdbot2. Jul 01 18:38:48 zash: ruim card, but the providers here do not use that techinique , and lots do not, instead offering their own set of devices Jul 01 18:39:45 joss: some cdma phones is modified gsm phones, with the gsm radio/modem replaced by cdma radio Jul 01 18:39:47 zash: i guess they identify those devices instead , not after the card Jul 01 18:40:29 zash: there are some that can do dual also, but i think i just can not connect with them, since the providers get a note, that this is not one of their offered ones Jul 01 18:42:25 zash:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CDMA has the thing mentioned there, says that verizon can allow arbitary cdma devices somehow, but how exactly, that is not descirbed Jul 01 18:42:25 cdma makes it easyer for providers to choose what phones goes on their network Jul 01 18:43:25 due to CDMA beeing a proprietary technology Jul 01 18:43:32 zash: yeah but according to protocol, what is the variable after what they decide, which one is which Jul 01 18:43:35 GSM is an open spec Jul 01 18:44:26 What is ASU? Jul 01 18:44:34 April Software Update Jul 01 18:44:35 ahhdaljhdla: topic? Jul 01 18:44:51 Thank you Jul 01 18:45:30 nuclear_eclipse: they s/april/august/ for a more realistic name Jul 01 18:45:30 SpeedEvil: Is this pdf posted recently? Jul 01 18:45:57 zash: ah, I missed that then Jul 01 18:46:12 zash: for gsm, do they collect only id/sim imformation.. or olso some other phone specific and unique number like IMEI? Jul 01 18:46:14 Is there any (reasonable) way to obtain a Freerunner in the US? Jul 01 18:46:30 Ritam: store opens Monday Jul 01 18:46:38 ah Jul 01 18:46:44 openmoko.com/store.html Jul 01 18:47:27 joss: i think they can see IMEI, but the sim provides auth Jul 01 18:47:46 Is it ready for everyday use? I don't mind if it's not, but I want to replace my oldish (2.5 years) phone with it Jul 01 18:48:22 zash: yeah, what i would like to know, what they can see for cdma to decide which device it is, i guess none knows that here:( Jul 01 18:48:49 Ritam: if you don't need a super-stable phone, some says it's decently stable, depending on which system image you choose Jul 01 18:49:07 joss: "Unlike the Electronic Serial Number or MEID of CDMA and other wireless networks, the IMEI is only used to identify the device, ..." Jul 01 18:49:08 zash: do you know, what number cable-internet provider sees, to decide what device is on the line, that could be starter? Jul 01 18:49:18 but I don't know because I'm still waiting on the US store to open on Monday to order mine :) Jul 01 18:49:22 lol Jul 01 18:49:53 joss: ISP's are only dumb pipes, they dont care what device your plugging in as long as it complies with the IP-standards Jul 01 18:50:11 joss: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imei Jul 01 18:50:42 joss: it would be very nice if cellphone companys could be reduced to "dumb pipes" Jul 01 18:50:45 zash: i wish it was so also for cdma internet providers:) Jul 01 18:50:50 joss: as they were before Jul 01 18:51:52 Are most of the developers using one as their primary cell phone? Anyone know? I'd wanted to get an EeePC, but have been holding out on this instead, lol. Jul 01 18:52:04 zash: i have heard , that some register lan card mac address, but that can be cloned i think Jul 01 18:52:42 joss: yes, that is possible Jul 01 18:52:50 joss: but not realy useful Jul 01 18:52:56 cable providers in the us usually do "tie" to a MAC address Jul 01 18:53:06 Ritam: I read on the mailing list that at least one person was, but I'm not going to trust it right away; I'm going to get a pre-pay SIM from T-Mobile to test it with until it's stable enough for daily use Jul 01 18:53:07 I know both comcast and roadrunner do in my experience. Jul 01 18:53:28 nuclear_eclipse: that's not a bad idea, I should give that a try. Jul 01 18:54:00 I use a GTA01 as my cell. The reliability is not quite up there (with an oldish gsmd image), but... Jul 01 18:54:02 if you go to a T-Mobile store, you can get just the SIM card for less than you would get the SIM with a "free" phone Jul 01 18:54:19 quite useless to bind to MAC, you could just have a NAT-box Jul 01 18:54:37 zash: they only bind to a MAC for the cable modem itself Jul 01 18:54:55 nuclear_eclipse: ARP Jul 01 18:54:56 at least on RR, you can have anything you want behind the modem Jul 01 18:55:06 zash: hmm, perhaps this MEID number is , reading the wiki page, how did you understand, perhaps phones and cdma routers send their MEID numbers to stations? Jul 01 18:55:07 mine binds to the MAC of the machine behind the modem, as mine is a "dumb" modem (i.e., no routing/NAT capabilities in the modem) Jul 01 18:55:07 !ping ScaredyCat Jul 01 18:55:08 binding IP to MAC Jul 01 18:55:11 pong Jul 01 18:55:12 !seen ScaredyCat Jul 01 18:55:16 torpor, ScaredyCat is right here! Jul 01 18:55:17 more of a ethernet-cable bridge Jul 01 18:55:17 !last ScaredyCat Jul 01 18:55:54 ~seen ScaredyCat Jul 01 18:55:58 scaredycat is currently on #openmoko. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 2d 3h 24m 51s, last said: '*blink*'. Jul 01 18:56:01 Ritam: i have one of those, i tried to connect another computer, but it didnt get a ip Jul 01 18:56:07 torpor: :) Jul 01 18:56:11 Ritam: ah, mine still has a MAC though Jul 01 18:56:21 it just passes everything through Jul 01 18:56:23 Ritam: but that is probably some timeout Jul 01 18:57:18 arp cache Jul 01 18:57:20 zash: mine you have to call comcast to release it Jul 01 18:57:30 but they will do it, no questions asked... just a pain Jul 01 18:57:36 20 minutes on hold normally Jul 01 18:57:58 Ritam: what if you manualy set the ip on another box Jul 01 18:58:21 zash:reading that that MEID reference, it seems to me, that MEID should be the number station collects, but english is not my native, so how did you understand? Jul 01 18:58:23 never tried that, actually Jul 01 18:59:45 joss: something like that, a id that identifies you/your phone Jul 01 18:59:58 joss: and in gsm that functions is in the sim-card Jul 01 19:00:16 nuclear_eclipse: thinking about it, I wonder if AT&T would just give me a sim card tied to my existing shared plan for $9.99/mo without a phone Jul 01 19:00:39 zash:and esn's for some, wonder can it be sniffed from their device, and reprogrammed to the phones chip storing this identifier Jul 01 19:00:47 Ritam: hmm, i never thought about doing that on my T-Mobile plan, thanks :) Jul 01 19:01:18 Ritam: they would Jul 01 19:01:35 just say you already have a phone, and just need a sim for it. they may charge a small amount for the sim Jul 01 19:01:37 Qwell: the question is whether they would want him to extend a contract or not Jul 01 19:01:48 nope, shouldn't Jul 01 19:02:06 I think they should be happy to get another $10/mo under the current contract... though that line might then be locked in until termination Jul 01 19:02:17 no idea if you can drop additional lines Jul 01 19:02:21 yeah, that's what I would worry about Jul 01 19:02:23 Qwell: i have read that at&t charges as much for sim+plan as sim+plan+phone Jul 01 19:02:31 they do Jul 01 19:02:37 but you aren't buying a phone, so +phone goes away Jul 01 19:03:50 but it costs the same? Jul 01 19:03:52 if they do charge as much, I'll just get the "free" phone they usually have and throw it in a closet incase another phone breaks Jul 01 19:04:04 yep Jul 01 19:04:12 Ritam: that would require a 2-year agreement on that line Jul 01 19:04:19 valid point Jul 01 19:04:27 it always costs the same or more for phone+plan than phone Jul 01 19:04:51 how susceptable is the freerunner screen to scratching? i'm hoping it's fairly resistant Jul 01 19:06:13 Ritam: i would guess its similar to the gta01 Jul 01 19:06:29 i am buying a screen protector Jul 01 19:06:45 speaking of which: any word on those InvisibleShield thingies? Jul 01 19:06:53 a screen protector wont make it worse at least :D Jul 01 19:06:57 HauDyr, sure thing, a screen protector is a must. Jul 01 19:07:06 * mjr will buy an IS surely if they start doing them for us Jul 01 19:07:07 is it? what is it? Jul 01 19:07:15 though i think i will just use a case. Jul 01 19:07:39 TAsn: what is that screen protector thing? a link please? Jul 01 19:07:41 * ajbrun will be Jul 01 19:08:19 LionKMP, i don't have a link Jul 01 19:08:33 http://www.zagg.com/ Jul 01 19:08:34 i don't think there is one for openmoko Jul 01 19:08:39 not yet Jul 01 19:08:45 but they will i belive Jul 01 19:08:53 somebody said something about getting it larger than the actual screen, and opening it up and putting it on Jul 01 19:09:01 Openmoko supposedly sent them a unit to make a protector for... Jul 01 19:09:06 though a generic 2.8" will probably do the trick. Jul 01 19:09:12 i think people are putting them beneath the facia Jul 01 19:09:40 well, InvisibleShield actually makes protectors that wrap around the entire unit Jul 01 19:09:48 i did the same with my tosa (zaurus) and it worked well Jul 01 19:09:56 won't they come off though? Jul 01 19:10:02 from the edges with wear Jul 01 19:10:08 and is it necessary? Jul 01 19:10:10 nuclear_eclipse, somebody say so? Jul 01 19:10:11 using a presentation foil, cutting the edges Jul 01 19:10:19 isn't one over the screen enough? Jul 01 19:10:27 tucked beneath the case facia Jul 01 19:10:34 not if you want to keep the case nice and shiny too :P Jul 01 19:10:36 i want a moko, damn it. ;0 Jul 01 19:10:41 ajbrun, for most purposes yes, those are for ... yeah, what nuclear_eclipse said Jul 01 19:10:44 TAsn: +100 Jul 01 19:10:56 3 weeks and i get one tbh Jul 01 19:11:02 nuclear_eclipse, when will there be a new shipment to europe? Jul 01 19:11:08 don't know Jul 01 19:11:12 ajbrun, how come 3 weeks? Jul 01 19:11:19 i'm off to america 1st Jul 01 19:11:34 where will you order it to? Jul 01 19:11:39 you could get one while you're here, unless you want the EU retail warranty Jul 01 19:11:48 zash: hmm, linux driver for their offered device at the bottom of the page seems open source , there is binary and also c code, http://www.televork.ee/index.php?menuID=208|254|403&productID=50&action=view Jul 01 19:13:25 this is awesome to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQcv3ETEQdM Jul 01 19:14:34 how come an sd card comes in the package when i'd guess that most people would get a larger one anyone? Jul 01 19:14:47 wouldn't it put costs down to not include it? Jul 01 19:14:47 just to be nice? Jul 01 19:15:00 nuclear_eclipse, we don't need strength we need no scratches. Jul 01 19:15:00 yes, or take my 512 from my existing phone Jul 01 19:15:00 they're dirt cheap anyhow Jul 01 19:15:01 nice? it would be cheaper Jul 01 19:15:06 joss: external modem? Jul 01 19:15:13 it'd maybe take $1 off the cost... Jul 01 19:15:21 i guess... Jul 01 19:15:22 maybe $5 at the most Jul 01 19:15:36 but I can't imagine they pay *tha much* for a 512 chip Jul 01 19:15:47 or use an 8gb one instead and add an extra $20? Jul 01 19:16:11 ajbrun: yes, I'd rather they just included a bigger size Jul 01 19:16:23 they can get an 8GB for much less than we can... Jul 01 19:16:28 zash: indeed, some usb ZTE one Jul 01 19:16:29 indeed Jul 01 19:16:37 i think 8gb is the biggest available right? Jul 01 19:16:45 16GB just hit the market iirc Jul 01 19:16:56 oh - i might get one of those then Jul 01 19:17:02 probably cheaper in america too Jul 01 19:17:30 nuclear_eclipse: I think you're thinking of fullsixed SD Jul 01 19:17:39 I'll probably pick up some really cheap 4GB chip, and then wait until prices drop more Jul 01 19:18:02 SpeedEvil: perhaps, but I would think that a 512 would be pretty inexpensive these days Jul 01 19:18:25 torpor: ping Jul 01 19:18:27 nuclear_eclipse: I mean - 16G fullsized. I haven't seen Jul 01 19:18:37 oh, ok Jul 01 19:18:43 joss: looks like it just talks AT-commands Jul 01 19:18:45 512 can be gotten for $2 in moderately small quantities. Jul 01 19:18:49 yep Jul 01 19:18:49 joss: like most modems do Jul 01 19:18:53 * ajbrun searches for 16gb micro sd prices Jul 01 19:19:11 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rcbf24451abf5 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up illume to rev120 - had theme problem. 100% cpu usage with infinite timer. Jul 01 19:19:11 $165 on newegg.com :P Jul 01 19:19:12 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r18429c5dd668 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: up to 0630 for date of efl - should fix eet issue? i can't reproduce here at Jul 01 19:19:12 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r07622d43694e 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: don't need efreet or ewl for edbus build. Jul 01 19:19:13 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rd09fec656815 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: [edbus Bump the PR after raster's change Jul 01 19:19:16 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r7f7e4bcf4a02 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [qtopia] Remove the callforwarding and phonesettings application from the image Jul 01 19:19:19 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * re28b16d191d8 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum of elfutils Jul 01 19:19:22 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rd1d0b0ed3bea 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add prelink checksum for the normal mirror Jul 01 19:19:25 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rc833fe83efe1 10/packages/python/python-pyxdg_0.15.bb: [python] Add pyxdg to use fdo specs from python Jul 01 19:19:25 wheeee Jul 01 19:19:28 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4479c6b92cfd 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pyxdg, matches the debian source Jul 01 19:19:35 ajbrun: or, buy a gigantic external usb hdd :D Jul 01 19:19:38 lol Jul 01 19:19:52 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r223087a9e537 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of splinter to 438 Jul 01 19:19:52 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r0e7fe720160a 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the callscreen/theme improvements Jul 01 19:19:53 and power all that? the freerunner'd last about 10 minutes :P Jul 01 19:19:53 dvdburner maybe? Jul 01 19:19:59 zash: yeah, and the code makes a device , to where to send them to Jul 01 19:20:13 nah zash - i want it compact Jul 01 19:20:17 ;) Jul 01 19:20:36 i mean, the different between 4gb to 8gb isn't much Jul 01 19:20:44 so why not get the best you can? Jul 01 19:20:49 unless it's a LOT more Jul 01 19:21:00 joss: i have a similar device, huawei e220, but it uses gsm/3g Jul 01 19:21:04 Becasue you can spend the difference on a 16G card in a week. Jul 01 19:21:18 lol Jul 01 19:21:53 SpeedEvil: is there 16GB µSD-cards? Jul 01 19:22:01 hey, does gprs work on the freerunner? sorry for the noob question... Jul 01 19:22:04 zaq: I don't think so. Jul 01 19:22:06 the wiki mentioned a qemu image, but i am unable to make heads or tails of it Jul 01 19:22:06 AsiQ, yes Jul 01 19:22:08 AsiQ: yes Jul 01 19:22:13 tnx Jul 01 19:22:19 AsiQ: but the software may not be there Jul 01 19:22:28 damn i think it's not healthy (what im going through). i need it :) im a gadget freak combined with an Open source enthusiast. :\ Jul 01 19:22:51 µSD = micro sd? Jul 01 19:23:00 SpeedEvil: what do you mean? there is no browser? Jul 01 19:23:01 SpeedEvil, so the answer to his Q is no. Jul 01 19:23:18 me, i am mostly fed up with nokia Jul 01 19:23:41 ajbrun: µ = micro Jul 01 19:23:46 AsiQ, ma kore gever? ;0 Jul 01 19:23:48 thought so Jul 01 19:23:50 TAsn, well not really. It's yes at least if you put up the connection manually and don't care about muxing :] Jul 01 19:24:10 TAsn: hakol tov.. ma itha? Jul 01 19:24:30 mjr, :) then the answer is not yes but neither it's no. Jul 01 19:24:37 AsiQ, fine. Jul 01 19:24:48 mjr: is it hard? time consuming? Jul 01 19:24:51 TAsn, it is yes. Jul 01 19:24:54 oh, standard sd-cards in 32GB sizes! Jul 01 19:24:54 AsiQ, no. Jul 01 19:25:04 TAsn: from where? Jul 01 19:25:11 mjr: cool.... Jul 01 19:25:21 AsiQ, let's leave that a secret ;0 Jul 01 19:25:28 zash - where? Jul 01 19:25:33 TAsn: lol Jul 01 19:25:52 ajbrun: i checked a price comparison site Jul 01 19:25:55 AsiQ, :) Jul 01 19:25:55 TAsn: sure thing.... do you have a freerunner? going to buy one? Jul 01 19:26:07 pricerunneR? Jul 01 19:26:09 AsiQ, dying to buy one. Jul 01 19:26:15 ajbrun: "Panasonic SDHC Class 6 32GB" Jul 01 19:26:16 ajbrun, lol. Jul 01 19:26:21 AsiQ, you? Jul 01 19:26:24 ajbrun: no, but similar site Jul 01 19:26:35 can you not ust send a link? Jul 01 19:26:41 you're very cryptic Jul 01 19:26:49 TAsn: i've already orderd one... but i'm waiting to see how much it will cost in the om shop Jul 01 19:26:51 ajbrun: you read swedish? Jul 01 19:26:53 zash, cool. I think I'll make do with my 16 GB one for a while though :) Jul 01 19:26:56 nope Jul 01 19:27:05 AsiQ, where did you order from? Jul 01 19:27:06 google-translate to the rescue! Jul 01 19:27:14 in the om shop it will cost 400$ Jul 01 19:27:36 do the math concerning vat and shipment. Jul 01 19:27:39 TAsn: polstar.de, but the french shop is accepting orders also Jul 01 19:27:59 * nuclear_eclipse thinks it's pulster.de ? Jul 01 19:28:02 TAsn: so the shop is cheeper.... Jul 01 19:28:10 pulster.de Jul 01 19:28:11 AsiQ, i can't believe you :( what are you going to do about the customs? Jul 01 19:28:32 it's not authorized for use, not even mentioning import. Jul 01 19:28:35 TAsn: If the natives run blue mud into their belly-button... Jul 01 19:29:09 ajbrun: http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=307311 Jul 01 19:29:13 SpeedEvil, what? Jul 01 19:29:14 ajbrun: cant find it on pricerunner Jul 01 19:29:19 ta Jul 01 19:29:26 * ajbrun translates Jul 01 19:29:38 TAsn: hammm... good question... i think i'm gonne ask the store to ship it as gift... if not... i will send it to a friend in denemark \ usa and ask them to send it to me... Jul 01 19:29:52 aprox 600 USD Jul 01 19:29:55 that's the best thing to do. Jul 01 19:30:04 asshole customs, that's why i didn't order. Jul 01 19:30:25 well, that and the huge vat and import tax and the third tax i can't remember it's name. Jul 01 19:30:26 TAsn: i've orders a GP2X and a nokia770 without any problam.... Jul 01 19:30:39 AsiQ, i wish you well. Jul 01 19:30:47 TAsn: tnx.... Jul 01 19:30:59 zash: yeah i think that driver does not let user to change esn number, good reference from wiki http://www.tiaonline.org/standards/resources/esn/index.cfm Jul 01 19:31:10 taxes sum up to something like 300$ Jul 01 19:31:32 zash: so depends what policy they have, perhaps they allow some other devices, perhaps not, than nothing to do Jul 01 19:31:46 http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prisjakt.nu%2Fprodukt.php%3Fp%3D307311&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=sv&tl=en Jul 01 19:31:46 TAsn: and btw... because its a phone... you can;t import it without a communication office check Jul 01 19:31:51 site breaks when you translate... Jul 01 19:31:57 AsiQ, i know. Jul 01 19:32:04 ajbrun: to much ajax Jul 01 19:32:09 yep Jul 01 19:32:18 what's the swedish price? Jul 01 19:32:23 AsiQ, i read all the legal stuff. Jul 01 19:32:26 i'll do a conversion instead Jul 01 19:32:32 ajbrun: 3610 SEK Jul 01 19:32:33 TAsn: its open source... lying to the goverment is a must! Jul 01 19:32:41 ajbrun: ~600 USD Jul 01 19:32:53 £300 then Jul 01 19:32:56 i can't get it why they do not accept fcc :\ Jul 01 19:32:57 ouch :p Jul 01 19:33:05 ajbrun: indeed Jul 01 19:33:12 think i'll stick with 8GB in that case Jul 01 19:33:17 dunno... Jul 01 19:33:32 ajbrun: but, as with all tech, price will drop Jul 01 19:33:35 eventualy Jul 01 19:33:39 AsiQ, well are you registered in whatsup? Jul 01 19:33:46 yeah, but for the likley ness of me filling it Jul 01 19:33:50 i don't think it's worth it Jul 01 19:33:53 no... whats that? Jul 01 19:34:24 i only have 22GB of flac music, so compressed it's nothing really Jul 01 19:34:27 one of the biggest open source websites here. Jul 01 19:34:30 it would be nice in some future gta* to have a externaly acceible SD-card reader Jul 01 19:34:38 zash: +1 Jul 01 19:34:44 :D Jul 01 19:34:48 zash, where is it now? behind the battery? Jul 01 19:34:48 didn;t know that... i will check it out... Jul 01 19:34:52 yep Jul 01 19:34:54 TAsn: yes Jul 01 19:35:01 right on top of the SIM card IIRC? Jul 01 19:35:04 zash, sucks ;0 Jul 01 19:35:15 AsiQ, where did you hear about om from? Jul 01 19:35:22 digg? Jul 01 19:35:29 na.... Jul 01 19:35:35 then? Jul 01 19:35:46 anyone have the link to the european distributors? Jul 01 19:35:51 i heard about it even before the neo got releasd Jul 01 19:35:51 mange, Jul 01 19:35:54 openmoko.com Jul 01 19:35:56 mange: openmoko.com Jul 01 19:35:57 mange: pulster.de Jul 01 19:35:58 AsiQ, where from? Jul 01 19:36:05 ah, thanks Jul 01 19:36:10 nuclear_eclipse, that's bad for his education! ;0 Jul 01 19:36:11 mange - i know a UK one Jul 01 19:36:11 don't remember where.... maybe hackaday or slashdot Jul 01 19:36:18 sorry Jul 01 19:36:19 mange: http://openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html even Jul 01 19:36:19 they do europe if you pay more shipping Jul 01 19:36:37 ajbrun, they ran out. Jul 01 19:36:38 TAsn: u? Jul 01 19:36:44 AsiQ, i think digg. Jul 01 19:36:47 indeed they did Jul 01 19:36:56 or slashdot, or something similar Jul 01 19:37:00 lol Jul 01 19:37:09 not sure though, was a long time ago. Jul 01 19:37:25 more than an year now, can't recall if a lot more or just a bit. :) Jul 01 19:37:29 are u a coder? or just a user? Jul 01 19:37:43 AsiQ, both. you? Jul 01 19:37:50 send me a link to whats up.... Jul 01 19:37:50 I wish I could be a coder, but I'm waiting on the US shop to open :P Jul 01 19:37:55 also.... Jul 01 19:38:00 www.whatsup.co.il Jul 01 19:38:07 nuclear_eclipse: lol Jul 01 19:38:20 nuclear_eclipse, same here, im not an om coder yet ;0 Jul 01 19:38:31 I'm mostly a user, I have some basic C/Java experience but are willing the help the project, any idea in what way I could help the most? Jul 01 19:38:41 TAsn: i know the site.... sorry i thought you are talking about a us site.... Jul 01 19:38:46 I'm more interested in writing Python GUI apps once I get the phone Jul 01 19:39:03 AsiQ, oh :) then post a thread when you get it :) Jul 01 19:39:12 TAsn: but i hate H sites.... Jul 01 19:39:15 Pjj, you can always do a lot. Jul 01 19:39:17 TAsn: i will.... Jul 01 19:39:48 AsiQ, cool, thanks :) Jul 01 19:40:29 TAsn: do you know anyone here using OpenMoko Jul 01 19:40:30 ? Jul 01 19:40:32 Pjj, you can post about bugs, help design guis, tell if you see anything wrong that you how how to make right ;0 Jul 01 19:40:38 AsiQ, ofek.biz Jul 01 19:40:46 his name is doron. Jul 01 19:40:47 cuz i think i was one of the first using a GP2X and a Nokia770... Jul 01 19:41:05 cool Jul 01 19:42:32 yeah ;) Jul 01 19:42:43 he is nice, btw, he is working with om. Jul 01 19:42:48 so he going to arrange a big buy? Jul 01 19:42:55 on what? Jul 01 19:43:03 he wants do be a distributor here. Jul 01 19:43:15 from him i got all the legal info. Jul 01 19:43:48 AsiQ, he has problems since the gov won't accept fcc for some reason. Jul 01 19:44:16 he is very nice, enter is site. Jul 01 19:44:24 well, im off, i need to train. :) Jul 01 19:44:25 gonna do that yeah TAsn Jul 01 19:44:31 TAsn: yeha he wont be able to get them ligally.... never,,, Jul 01 19:44:45 AsiQ, he is trying though. Jul 01 19:44:48 TAsn: well see you Jul 01 19:44:56 TAsn: Yeha Jul 01 19:45:01 Pjj, you do your best :) Jul 01 19:45:07 will do :) Jul 01 19:45:35 Pjj, btw, thanks for that. off training and watching kill bill 1 :) Jul 01 19:45:38 cya. Jul 01 19:45:59 tis the best one Jul 01 19:57:38 * ScaredyCat sighs Jul 01 19:58:09 hi ScaredyCat Jul 01 19:58:32 * SpeedEvil throws ScaredyCat a squeaky mouse toy. Jul 01 19:58:32 lo nuclear_eclipse Jul 01 19:58:42 ScaredyCat: Evening :) Jul 01 19:58:43 * ScaredyCat disects it Jul 01 19:58:49 lo CM Jul 01 19:59:25 Trying to build the fso now.. Jul 01 20:02:14 yo Jul 01 20:02:27 ScaredyCat: whatsup Jul 01 20:02:33 lo Jul 01 20:03:04 you msg'd earlier... Jul 01 20:03:11 um yeah Jul 01 20:03:20 just running 25th june image from you Jul 01 20:03:30 you are the man as far as working images is concerned. Jul 01 20:03:33 all hail scaredy Jul 01 20:03:37 everything else blows. Jul 01 20:03:46 All sleet ScaredyCat! Jul 01 20:03:50 but whats up with bt keyboard support? it was working. Jul 01 20:04:19 if you have problems with ScaredyCat images, remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat Jul 01 20:04:47 hrrm... Jul 01 20:04:56 have you tried the script ? Jul 01 20:05:43 noe just the gui Jul 01 20:05:48 how do you set a passkey? Jul 01 20:05:56 ahh ... welll... errm Jul 01 20:06:13 that'll be in the bt config... Jul 01 20:06:23 no gui for that eh? Jul 01 20:06:30 * mjr scratches ScaredyCat behind the ears Jul 01 20:07:04 * ScaredyCat miews Jul 01 20:07:09 is settingsgui progressing? Jul 01 20:07:59 oh, first fso build done :) Jul 01 20:08:44 * ScaredyCat stares at gta01 Jul 01 20:10:08 to be honest i think an all-python approach is smart. Jul 01 20:10:14 screw all this cross-compiling nonsense. Jul 01 20:10:21 torpor: +1 Jul 01 20:10:24 let us make a distro that is pure python for the user. Jul 01 20:10:58 a 100% source-on-board cell phone. now *that* would be sweet. but it would have to have gcc and co. Jul 01 20:11:15 I like the idea of using Dbus for the backend storage/interop, and Python with Gtk/Qt/etc for the user apps Jul 01 20:11:16 python, however, on a nicely made base framework of normal unix daemons .. Jul 01 20:11:49 i don't think the gui is as important if you're running all-python stuff. Jul 01 20:12:07 sure, use the layers if you want to include gtk in a common build, but what about an all-python system? Jul 01 20:12:21 What do you use for Python development ? Jul 01 20:12:27 eg, a native Python-interpretingn CPU? Jul 01 20:12:35 or do you just mean for the backend as well? Jul 01 20:12:47 ScaredyCat: you are all-freerunner now, right? Jul 01 20:12:51 gta01 don't get no 'mo love. Jul 01 20:13:03 CVirus: vim all the way :P Jul 01 20:13:04 I don;t have a freerunner Jul 01 20:13:43 nuclear_eclipse: Don't you know it's "Turtles all the way down"? :D Jul 01 20:13:48 lol Jul 01 20:13:52 touche Jul 01 20:14:00 nuclear_eclipse: how about code completion and api doc viewing ? Jul 01 20:14:08 i cant wait for OpenMoko-ncurses Jul 01 20:14:28 HauDyr: YES! Jul 01 20:14:29 CVirus: ctags for code completion, and api viewing is either handled by ctags or a firefox session :P Jul 01 20:14:49 nuclear_eclipse: i think a lean mean linux machine, i.e. init and daemons on dbus- happily talking to each other, with a python+framebuffer 'glom' to manage it all. fresh, clean, sweet. only things that go onboard are python. Jul 01 20:15:00 ctags ? Jul 01 20:15:20 torpor: sounds nice but likely unobtainable :P Jul 01 20:15:21 HauDyr: doable. Jul 01 20:15:31 nuclear_eclipse: thats what they said about atomic warfare too. Jul 01 20:16:00 that way, the phone would be the devkit. Jul 01 20:16:03 ctags are a "standardized" way to parse code for function/method signatures and store in a manner that can be read by vim, emacs, and more Jul 01 20:16:34 right now, the cross-platform gate is strictly closed. a real 100% opensource device, let us say 'next generation' would necessibly be source-integrity complete; i.e. full source onboard. Jul 01 20:16:39 so if you create a ctags database of your source tree, any "reasonable" editor can use that ctags file for code-completion Jul 01 20:17:38 torpor: I meant "unobtainable" mainly in the scope of the Freerunner itself, but it would certainly be a nice long-term goal for many mobile Linux projects Jul 01 20:28:25 Hello. Does anyone know when the OpenMoko store will be up and running or when/if the Neo Freerunner will be availbale in Canada? Jul 01 20:28:39 heatman: supposedly Monday the 7th Jul 01 20:28:42 monday is the word on the street Jul 01 20:29:01 nice! Jul 01 20:29:02 i heard it thru the grapewine : monday 7th Jul 01 20:29:18 "grapewine"? ;) Jul 01 20:30:18 and they will be 399 USD? Jul 01 20:30:25 yes Jul 01 20:30:37 grapevine, sorry :) Jul 01 20:30:54 Hmm.. Why is dbus not starting on my fso image.. Jul 01 21:46:42 ScaredyCat: There you let a whole conversation about python being good pass right before your eyes, with no comment! Jul 01 21:46:46 WTF is up with you!? Jul 01 21:51:04 balrog-kun: Is your FR mplayer integrated into one of the release images? Jul 01 21:52:00 wurp2|away: nope Jul 01 21:53:00 :-( Jul 01 21:53:30 I was curious, because someone put some comments from XorA about how to transcode to mpeg4 on the FR section of the Video_Player page Jul 01 21:53:43 Which is not very useful if it doesn't also tell how to use your player Jul 01 21:53:48 which it doesn't Jul 01 21:54:40 Er, never mind, it switched to talking about the 01 and I missed it Jul 01 21:55:06 I still think someone ought to put directions on how to get your mplayer & run it on the FR Jul 01 21:55:38 (run it in a useful way, i.e. w/ mpeg4) Jul 01 21:55:43 yeah i may still put some link to the glamo mplayer in that wiki page, probably a good idea Jul 01 21:55:47 Did you get sound working & synchronized? Jul 01 21:55:57 nope, haven't tried at all Jul 01 22:23:19 AsiQ: your internet connection sucks :-) Jul 02 00:46:18 pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I didn't get a really definitive answer from the website(s), as an application developper, what would be my best bet for getting a build and test environment up and running for the Freerunner? Jul 02 00:51:46 azmodean, Using Linux, it's very easy to do Jul 02 00:52:02 linux yes Jul 02 00:52:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain try that link azmodean Jul 02 00:52:49 ok Jul 02 00:59:40 are there resources for Python apps available, or is it just c programs at the moment? Jul 02 01:00:41 I can re-write my program in C instead of porting the python, but it would be much faster if I keep it python, and the app really is so lightweight that it won't need the speed of C Jul 02 01:03:43 azmodean, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Python try that one Jul 02 01:05:12 ah-ha sweet, I think I'll have what I need with a little more rummaging Jul 02 01:06:10 :P Jul 02 01:07:01 What's your thingy az? Jul 02 01:07:21 rsvp reader (rapid serial visual presentation) Jul 02 01:07:44 it displays test files one word at a time very rapidly Jul 02 01:08:22 it sounds odd, but once you get used to it it's actually a very nice way to read, especially on a portable device Jul 02 01:08:48 I'm also working on including pdf support in addition to plain text Jul 02 01:09:12 azmodean: I discovered that back in ... Jul 02 01:09:22 azmodean: It was a 386/2 Jul 02 01:09:24 azmodean: It was a 386/20 Jul 02 01:10:07 yep, it's been around forever, but I couldn't find a reader for it that is targeted at a handheld device Jul 02 01:10:17 oh, and that is also open :P Jul 02 01:10:37 there are some nice closed-source palm readers for instance Jul 02 01:10:54 The screen - TFT - should be fine for that. Jul 02 01:11:11 I seem to remember I got 300WPM or so. Jul 02 01:12:29 I originally wrote this for the gp2x, a arm-based 200Mhz handheld, and it can get somewhere around that speed as well, so the Freerunner should have no problem at all Jul 02 01:16:19 I was meaning personally. Jul 02 01:17:03 I suspect you could get 100wpm easily. Jul 02 01:18:57 Err Jul 02 01:18:59 1800wpm Jul 02 01:19:10 But reading that'd be problematic for most. Jul 02 01:19:34 whew, that's a bit fast to read, you think the screen can keep up with that? Jul 02 01:19:45 That's pretty conservative. Jul 02 01:19:51 One word per two frames Jul 02 01:19:59 It's a fast TFT screen. Jul 02 01:20:48 wow, the gp2x topped out at around 500 WPM I think Jul 02 01:21:21 Hell, it can do decoding 320*240 at 20FPS or so, which'd be 600WPM. Jul 02 01:21:23 it could do that while underclocked to 100MHz, but the screen couldn't refresh any faster Jul 02 01:22:09 1200WPM even,. Jul 02 01:28:53 building the prerequisites now for the host development environment Jul 02 01:37:21 oh joy, gtk development at home too Jul 02 01:53:26 anyone know if the freerunner agps is autonomous? Jul 02 01:53:34 you dont' need net Jul 02 01:53:48 so thats a yes :) Jul 02 01:53:52 99% of AGPss will work as normal GPS Jul 02 01:54:05 Just you can get faster fixes with i Jul 02 01:54:24 well as its an open phone i would hope so and yes there are 4 kinds of agps Jul 02 01:55:07 wanted one of these but bailed when wifi wasnt specd out yet Jul 02 01:55:08 There are many kinds of AGPS. Jul 02 01:55:23 It's _not_ consumer ready yet. Jul 02 01:55:42 figure i can dump off my m700 and still have cash left over heh Jul 02 01:57:28 anyone have any vids of recent builds? you tube is VERY old Jul 02 01:58:09 not to mention the new outlets seem to plaster the mock up screens for all their stories ;) Jul 02 01:58:57 Youtube isn't working for me right no. Jul 02 01:59:13 search on freerunner Jul 02 02:00:27 yeah freerunner and openmoko are pretty much synonymous on there and most show early ui changes especially since direction went toward enlightenment i would imagine Jul 02 02:00:38 freerunner ASU Jul 02 02:00:41 may have more hits Jul 02 02:00:47 you can't search by date? Jul 02 02:01:11 it only comes up with 3 pages Jul 02 02:01:13 * SpeedEvil hates youtube in so many ways. Jul 02 02:01:20 hahaha Jul 02 02:01:45 content or technology primarily? Jul 02 02:02:04 and it looked like boot time was around 1:45 in one of them course i havent time winmo6.1 Jul 02 02:02:27 how often do you boot your phone though really? Jul 02 02:02:31 tech mainly. Jul 02 02:02:39 I think my blackjack boots in about a minute Jul 02 02:02:42 You should in principle not need to boot it Jul 02 02:02:53 azmodean, depends how crappy the os is Jul 02 02:03:45 that's a point I guess, but then it's really more about the OS crashng than the boot time being bad Jul 02 02:03:48 current phone with winmo 6.1 randomly attaches the SD to a new folder name in which case i have to reboot to make apps and shortcuts work Jul 02 02:04:10 yea that's... Jul 02 02:04:23 the reason for the openmoko project? Jul 02 02:04:49 course a nice service up down would be nice (nix admin smile) heh Jul 02 02:05:18 or in that case umount mount! Jul 02 02:06:10 were just having this discussion about the Pandora a bit ago, the thing looks to have somewhere between a week and a month of standby, so what purpose is there to shutting it down really? Jul 02 02:06:34 shutting what down? Jul 02 02:06:46 the device, in this case the Pandora Jul 02 02:06:49 yeah as long as its stable theres really no need Jul 02 02:07:26 It looks likely that you'd get about a week or more of standby with freerunner. Jul 02 02:07:36 Once the power managment is sorted. Jul 02 02:07:56 Pandora has it easy since it doesn't have to keep monitoring a radio Jul 02 02:08:04 Suspend-disk is another quesion. Jul 02 02:08:05 eh i dunno if you have a week of standby you might as well not pay for minutes ;) Jul 02 02:08:25 That may actually be reasonable if you want your phone to be 'off' Jul 02 02:08:38 It suspends to disk, then resumes, not reboos. Jul 02 02:09:03 course how many devices have you seen that work well? Jul 02 02:09:05 heh, exact same discussion in fact Jul 02 02:09:22 from a resume that is Jul 02 02:09:35 digitalslave: my laptop works perfectly. Jul 02 02:09:49 digitalslave: anything with a completely fixed set of hardware tends to be OK. Jul 02 02:10:00 it's a bit iffy in general, but... what SpeedEvil said :P Jul 02 02:10:15 SpeedEvil, my ubuntu actually works quite well ive just had bad experiences in the past so i tend not to use it Jul 02 02:11:03 And phones tend to have a perfectly stable set of hardware. Jul 02 02:15:29 anyone know if there is a code repository anywhere like what they are doing with android to show devs how to access the different parts? Jul 02 02:16:30 I don't think so, there is sample code scattered around the wiki, but I don't think anything defenitive like that Jul 02 02:16:52 on the other hand they're using standard libraries/apis from what I can see Jul 02 02:18:02 I looked into android, but in the end decided it wasn't worth learning java Jul 02 02:18:08 yeah androids isnt so definitive either just some people throwing bits into a forum and its all standard java Jul 02 02:19:00 haha ive dabbled in it but java has too many shards and niches that you really cant find what you want - done app, web, and server work with it and would rather pass ;) Jul 02 02:20:34 havent done anything with nix really except shell script and oracle junk and would like to pursue some things besides the web world we live in Jul 02 02:21:36 heh, I got thrown into the fire about two years ago, had mostly done M$ development and landed a job on an embedded linux system Jul 02 02:21:46 you learn pretty fast that way Jul 02 02:22:50 not to mention that the worst thing about java and the android is that EVERY drop down and text box goes full screen before you can fill it in cause unneeded clicking Jul 02 02:23:20 digitalslave: Uh, java makes every drop down and text box go full screen? Jul 02 02:23:36 heh, I have that problem with my window manager I use (ion3) Jul 02 02:23:39 wurp2|away, have you messed with the android emulator? Jul 02 02:24:05 No... so you're saying Android makes every drop-down & text box go full screen Jul 02 02:24:35 yes it brings up a secondary screen to fill it out then you click OK and it goes back to the screen with all the other fields to fill in! Jul 02 02:24:52 That I can certainly buy Jul 02 02:25:13 yay java! Jul 02 02:25:17 yaya android! Jul 02 02:26:11 hahaha i would assume they will find a way around it but it just seemed backwards and was in every demo/sample code out there Jul 02 02:31:51 looks like some of the wiki build instructions are out of date, I'll correct them when I get it sorted Jul 02 02:32:13 it's wanting gpgme installed Jul 02 02:32:23 Running emulator now... thanks, digitalslave - I didn't know the emulator existed :-) Jul 02 02:32:41 yeah and takes like 5 minutes to install! Jul 02 02:32:49 still very cool Jul 02 02:49:51 well, I've got something running at least Jul 02 02:50:14 now I need to find out where to report a build bug Jul 02 02:50:20 heh Jul 02 02:52:25 but before that, perhaps I should eat, it's 10:00 already :P Jul 02 02:54:49 azmodean: Hey, you're in my time zone :-) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 02 02:59:56 2008