**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 03 02:59:57 2008 Jul 03 03:00:21 ljp: Thanks Jul 03 03:00:22 jeffszusz: huh? all guis for OM are open Jul 03 03:02:26 Qtopia is 100% open now? Jul 03 03:02:55 yes Jul 03 03:03:01 has been for quite a while now Jul 03 03:03:08 since 4.0 Jul 03 03:03:28 really? interesting Jul 03 03:03:33 yep Jul 03 03:04:02 so what is going to be different about OpenMoko from the usual Qtopia install ? Jul 03 03:05:57 er. hello? Jul 03 03:08:45 ohhhh is this true: Trolltech has ceased producing the Greenphone and has directed it's customers to the Neo? Jul 03 03:09:40 yes Jul 03 03:09:48 old news :) Jul 03 03:09:59 Trolltech was bought by Nokia as well Jul 03 03:10:16 ljp: are you still with trolltech? Jul 03 03:10:20 yes Jul 03 03:10:31 or nokia now, i guess. Jul 03 03:10:43 ya, weird Jul 03 03:11:03 hmmm Jul 03 03:11:15 it's weird working for nokia? :) Jul 03 03:11:16 how "deep" is the trolltech/openmoko partnership, then? Jul 03 03:11:27 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r576442063321 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [divesity] Bump up the reversion of Diversity-radar to 453 Jul 03 03:11:37 mwester: you're running fso on your gta01? Jul 03 03:11:47 jeffszusz, up to the elbow? heh sorry had to Jul 03 03:12:02 lol Jul 03 03:12:17 heh Jul 03 03:12:39 Thicker than blood? Jul 03 03:12:55 well i must say i like what i see on the pimd plans - some things are "dreamy" but most have base Jul 03 03:13:16 although i usua;;y come up with those things in a day and knock out an app in a week or two ;) Jul 03 03:14:29 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * rbb74c36f9e92 10/packages/python/python-etk_git.bb: [python] Add python-ecore to DEPENDS of python-etk Jul 03 03:14:36 * rwhitby refrains from pointing out to the guy on the community list complaining about getting an automated reply in "friggin german" that he did actually order from a site ending in .de .... Jul 03 03:14:46 hah Jul 03 03:15:01 ferric: ya, weird thinking I work for a huge mega corp that makes money in the billions Jul 03 03:15:02 rwhitby: didn't realize people were opening those emails. :/ Jul 03 03:15:24 hahaha Jul 03 03:15:25 ljp: is the trolltech team still independent tho? Jul 03 03:15:28 ljp: what does trolltech gain from the openmoko partnership? OpenMoko gets to sell hardware.... Jul 03 03:16:25 trolltech gets to license more qt for qtopia apps Jul 03 03:16:34 ferric: we have a bit more autonomy than other divisions in Nokia (we have our own customers) Jul 03 03:17:19 ... i thought Qt was GPL'd too Jul 03 03:17:41 it is Jul 03 03:18:04 * jeffszusz raises an eyebrow Jul 03 03:18:10 haha Jul 03 03:18:11 jeffszusz: dual licensed Jul 03 03:18:36 how do you entice someone to licence the proprietary version if it's open source as well? Jul 03 03:18:52 heh Jul 03 03:18:57 cause you can keep your changes Jul 03 03:19:02 sell "support" with it Jul 03 03:19:20 hmm Jul 03 03:19:27 always some sucker out there ;) Jul 03 03:19:59 they do all that with tripwire! although it does have some other functions most of which people wont use ;) Jul 03 03:20:15 frankly, i think qt is good enough to pay for. Jul 03 03:24:05 hah! Jul 03 03:24:09 blasphemy :p Jul 03 03:24:52 Resetting USB to swithc back to runtime mode Jul 03 03:24:56 never gets old :P Jul 03 03:25:08 sweet. i just booted my gta01 after 6months, and it startups fine! Jul 03 03:25:14 probably runnong 2007.2 Jul 03 03:25:18 er, running. Jul 03 03:25:24 is anyone doing development on a mac? Jul 03 03:25:56 haha if its like my servers at work itll have uptime of 3 years ;) Jul 03 03:26:06 heh! Jul 03 03:26:32 helps keep that 99.9% uptime for the windows boys heh Jul 03 03:26:33 Make french toast! Jul 03 03:27:18 julian fries! Jul 03 03:27:39 set it and forget it? heh Jul 03 03:28:47 Ronco! Jul 03 03:28:49 :D Jul 03 03:29:45 is there an emulator to test out images and applications? Jul 03 03:30:37 Yes. Jul 03 03:30:49 If you *really* want to. Jul 03 03:31:35 well as i dont have hardware and would like to do dev work but am really unsure if id buy a phone that "sometimes gets calls and sms" it would be a good place to start Jul 03 03:31:50 o.O Jul 03 03:32:07 oh, about that episodically disconnects from gsm? Jul 03 03:32:34 no idea its just plastered all over the wiki and from multiple people here that is "sometimes" works Jul 03 03:33:03 :-) Jul 03 03:33:03 :\ Jul 03 03:33:13 digitalslave: you have to be really motivated with qemy Jul 03 03:33:14 It worked fine for me. *shrugs* Jul 03 03:33:15 er, qemu Jul 03 03:33:20 (or that's been my experience anyway) Jul 03 03:33:27 Dave: running FSO? Jul 03 03:33:30 Though I recently mentioned I'd try using one for more calls per day. Jul 03 03:33:32 Ferric, no. Jul 03 03:33:41 now if the phone and sms worked and we were building other useful bits i could see plunking down the cash and living through some growing pains Jul 03 03:33:51 night everyone Jul 03 03:34:09 Dave: what're you running then? Jul 03 03:34:11 Yep :) Jul 03 03:34:25 digitalslave: wait a while then Jul 03 03:34:53 Ferric, mostly the latest svn build off of openmoko, what some might call, ASU, I believe. Jul 03 03:35:07 got it. Jul 03 03:35:28 I guess I'll let it charge over night and flash FSO tomorrow morning to see how it does. Jul 03 03:37:03 One of my Freerunner batteries was bad, I guess :| Jul 03 03:37:14 I'm rather disappointed and yet, somewhat bewildered. Jul 03 03:37:22 Though it clearly seems to be a freak :P Jul 03 03:37:37 heh Jul 03 03:37:47 But still, sucks. Jul 03 03:39:38 my dev kit for gta01 shipped with 2 batteries. Jul 03 03:39:44 Yep yep :) Jul 03 03:40:39 Dave: you tried swapping the good battery out and "bad" one in, while system up? Jul 03 03:40:48 heh when you know your a real geek "whats your user id on your phone" hah Jul 03 03:40:53 while system up? Jul 03 03:41:01 Did I swap batteries, yes, did it work afterward, yes. Jul 03 03:41:01 Dave: we have a problem charging completely drained bats Jul 03 03:41:08 And the bad one did not work in another device. Jul 03 03:41:12 Yes. Jul 03 03:41:18 Deeply discharged cells? Jul 03 03:41:28 Dave: yes Jul 03 03:41:33 I even left it charging, once via USB for 24hr, then once via wall socket for 24hr. Jul 03 03:41:42 Still didn't power any device. Jul 03 03:41:47 I was disappointed. Jul 03 03:41:50 hm, now to figure out how to get that fso jffs2 onto the gta01 Jul 03 03:42:05 ferric, dfu-util :) Jul 03 03:42:25 Dave: system isn't coming up on dead bat plus USB. And bat won't charge without system up Jul 03 03:42:30 Dave: on OS X? Jul 03 03:42:51 Joerg, smells like fail. Jul 03 03:43:00 ferric, why not? just compile the source :) Jul 03 03:43:05 That's what I had to do. Jul 03 03:43:08 Dave: yep, some hw-issue Jul 03 03:43:26 joerg, yeah there's been a few separate issues just like that once, shit seems a bit backwards. Jul 03 03:43:36 Dave: still under investigation. see kernel-ml Jul 03 03:43:43 Pass :P Jul 03 03:43:54 You're welcome to send me any relevant info though :) Jul 03 03:44:54 Dave: oy, the flasher tool contains a compiled dfu-util Jul 03 03:45:29 Dave: are you using os x to develop? Jul 03 03:45:43 nope Jul 03 03:46:20 and yeah every single precompiled dfu-util binary I could get my hands on did not run on any of my 2.6.24 systems, so I said fuck you, and just built it myself. Jul 03 03:46:30 Now I have a linked binary across many systems, which works, I might add :P Jul 03 03:47:00 fair enough. Jul 03 03:47:14 the charge only lasted a few seconds, after boot. Jul 03 03:47:31 * ferric goes to bed and hopes to wake up to a flashable gta01 Jul 03 03:47:33 hehe Jul 03 03:47:36 tscheuss! Jul 03 03:47:36 aww Jul 03 03:47:59 ferric, also note the uboot bug (if it still exists in old gta01 images), the boot menu timeout deal. Jul 03 03:48:04 Also, silly and annoying. Jul 03 03:48:24 Dave: hopefully flashing to a new image will solve that, yes? Jul 03 03:48:32 oh - you mean while i'm flashing. Jul 03 03:50:52 So Joerg, if that is the issue, which I initially suspected, should I simply try charging the cell myself? Jul 03 03:51:51 Dave: sure! as I said: swap bateries while system up. Dead battery should charge Jul 03 03:52:26 Dave: doesn't help if your system powers up with the dead battery. Some Neo do, some do not Jul 03 03:52:32 OH, sorry, I did not quite understand what you mean, while it's connected to a power source :P Jul 03 03:53:19 * Dave throws torches at the opkg developers Jul 03 03:53:23 Dave: so your Neo starts with USB power and the dead battery? Jul 03 03:53:31 Joerg, nope Jul 03 03:54:15 Dave: that's the problem. Neo doesn't chage when it's not booted Jul 03 03:54:28 Exactly! Jul 03 03:54:31 which is totally fail Jul 03 03:54:45 Dave: so boot with the "good" bat, then swap batteries while system is up and running Jul 03 03:54:52 and connecting the device to a power source when OFF should NOT boot the device. Jul 03 03:54:58 yeah, I got that, thanks joerg :p Jul 03 03:55:51 Dave: actualy it sould boot/resume on USB-insert Jul 03 03:56:13 Dave: that's a specification for the device Jul 03 03:57:29 Dave: we ave to check wha kind of USB we are being connected to. And we needto negotiate 500mA from USB. Only CPU can do this Jul 03 03:57:40 Joerg, that's a terrible idea (practicality wise, assuming the device functions as I mentioned above - charging without being booted) Jul 03 03:58:05 joerg, yeah I get it, though it totally sucks. Jul 03 03:58:26 I never liked USB power devices (becoming mainstreamed). Jul 03 03:59:28 Dave: that's USB. I don't like it either. But product ID didn't like the idea of a second hole for a decent barrel connector for simple power-wallwart Jul 03 03:59:50 right, lame. Jul 03 03:59:59 why not have BOTH Jul 03 04:00:22 Dave: so if we don't want to break USB-specs / kill hosts, we need to boot to negotiate 100mA->500mA Jul 03 04:00:24 The AC adapter is supposed be DUMB, I'd rather have a simple power wallwart :[ Jul 03 04:00:31 Yes, I get it :) Jul 03 04:01:01 Stupid, I'll just get in the habit of charging the batteries externally then, I guess, then I'm going to need more batteries, too :p Jul 03 04:01:22 me too. but thats product design/ID who decide on the number of holes inside our device Jul 03 04:02:03 yeah, furthermore, I was shocked when I discovered it did not have a port for an external cell antenna! Jul 03 04:02:11 Dave: nah, usually the bat never is so completely drained that Neo wn't boot Jul 03 04:03:00 Dave: (ext GSM-ant) you have, is inside beside the screw hole Jul 03 04:03:36 Dave: don't ask me about the type of connector though Jul 03 04:03:42 Yeah, I noticed that. Jul 03 04:04:18 Oh, but certainly -not- convenient in any way :P Jul 03 04:04:31 Dave: ACK Jul 03 04:05:10 was for a car-fixture that never gets built as I understand Jul 03 04:06:40 Ah! Jul 03 04:06:56 Disappointing, since that is going to be my application/implementation :P Jul 03 04:06:56 Dave: I joined OM less than 3 months ago. Believe me, I'm trying to improve sme of these issues for our next device Jul 03 04:08:25 Dave: meanwhile you may hope for some second source supplier to offer this fixture thing Jul 03 04:09:07 I'll get one fashioned for myself. Jul 03 04:09:08 or make it Jul 03 04:09:08 Dave: or maybe build it DIY Jul 03 04:09:12 Yep Jul 03 04:09:27 We have a shop downstairs which does this stuff for us :) Jul 03 04:09:36 like when we needed customized mounting GPS antennas :) Jul 03 04:09:48 make two of hem, I'll uy one! honestly. Jul 03 04:10:34 heehee Jul 03 04:10:43 contact me at joerg AT openmoko.com Jul 03 04:10:56 if we get them fashioned (eventually), we'll probably get a bunch made, so I'll try to sneak one out of the lab :D Jul 03 04:11:07 You certainly deserve it for your ongoing support ;) Jul 03 04:11:17 :-) Jul 03 04:11:21 though I can't guarantee it'll look nice (but it'll function properly) Jul 03 04:11:25 :) Jul 03 04:11:35 nevermind Jul 03 04:12:28 so it will meet the "puck" Jul 03 04:13:33 alegedly next device isn't suited for icehockey ;-) Jul 03 04:13:59 heehee Jul 03 04:14:06 don't inform the canadians :P Jul 03 04:14:38 :D probably they LOVE GTA02 design Jul 03 04:14:55 Any one build their libraries with local/packages/application in moko? Jul 03 04:15:11 * mwester thinks it looks like a pool toy with a lanyard hole so you can tie your keys to it so they won't sink to the bottom. Jul 03 04:15:55 yesterday someone called it "shower-radio" Jul 03 04:15:59 :P Jul 03 04:16:15 haha Jul 03 04:16:27 Joerg, exactly! :D Jul 03 04:17:31 well I adore shower-radios. especially the smart ones with VGA-screen ;-) Jul 03 04:23:40 whee. Jul 03 04:24:05 haha that almost sounds like a water-proof linux-phone, to me! ;) Jul 03 04:46:11 what's is the lastest neo product hardware version? A5? Jul 03 04:50:41 GTA02? Jul 03 04:50:48 At least, in production. Jul 03 04:53:42 anyone know the zip code of the shipping centre? Jul 03 04:54:31 Hoolxi: i believe it's v5 Jul 03 04:59:59 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware Jul 03 05:02:12 alphabea1,Dave, it mentioned there, but i'm not sure what's the difference between GTA02v5 , v6 ,A5 and A6? Jul 03 05:04:26 revisions? Jul 03 05:05:30 the major one that i can think of (well was discussed endlessly on the mailing list) was a status LED that had a power leak and was changed to a more efficient one in v6 Jul 03 05:28:05 hm, dfu-util on the mac claims no capable devices. Jul 03 05:28:35 did you have to do the chown uucp:uucp of the device? Jul 03 05:28:58 I had to do that on a couple of my machines, when running dfu-util -_- Jul 03 05:29:04 no, didn't do anything. plugged the device in and did a dfu-util -l Jul 03 05:29:31 ah Jul 03 05:29:39 did you try cu? Jul 03 05:31:21 no. Jul 03 05:31:30 lets see if i can get to the uboot cosnole Jul 03 05:31:32 using minicom Jul 03 05:37:45 ok going into uboot and setting console to usb made it show up Jul 03 05:37:52 interestingly, it seems to have gone to sleep Jul 03 05:38:17 how do i make it not sleep? Jul 03 05:39:54 give it lots of caffeine and play loud music Jul 03 05:40:12 or, make it have kids Jul 03 05:40:19 The wiki (search for uboot or bootloader?) has a note on what to set to change that. Jul 03 05:45:15 setenv boot_menu_timeout 65000 Jul 03 05:49:29 yeah, found it! Jul 03 05:49:44 ljp_: which one happened to you? :) Jul 03 05:49:56 and thanks Dave. Jul 03 05:50:04 flashing FSO now... Jul 03 05:50:10 mwester: are you running FSO? Jul 03 05:50:46 :] Jul 03 05:50:52 password? Jul 03 05:51:10 Oh no, it's old man Railer! Jul 03 05:51:26 how do you know I'm old? Jul 03 05:51:28 ferric: both Jul 03 05:51:50 You told me/us, the other night, remember? - of course you don't, you're old! :) Jul 03 05:52:08 no shit, sounds like me Jul 03 05:52:19 :D Jul 03 05:52:42 ferric: I run many firmwares, but I think the GTA01 will boot FSO up from the flash. Jul 03 05:52:57 so whats the story with the password to buy these things? Jul 03 05:53:21 oh, so THAT'S what everyone's talking about, with regards to needing a password? Jul 03 05:53:32 how do i get a sim card to put in a freerunner? Jul 03 05:53:44 take the battey out Jul 03 05:53:48 Some were confused earlier, thinking they were talking about on the device :P Jul 03 05:53:50 ozzloy: you put it in the sim holder? Jul 03 05:54:18 raster: how do i get a sim card, i don't currently have one Jul 03 05:54:23 get a pre-paid sim Jul 03 05:54:41 do they sell those at att stores or something? Jul 03 05:55:05 nhm, interesting Jul 03 05:55:14 not sure. theres no att stores within thousands of miles here Jul 03 05:55:26 mwester: it booted fso up from flash, and then droppedme to a login prompt Jul 03 05:55:30 not sure what just happened Jul 03 05:55:58 ljp: what store would i buy a pre-paid sim card from then? Jul 03 05:56:19 which country are you in? Jul 03 05:56:31 usa Jul 03 05:56:40 you can get them from any mobile phone store in Australia Jul 03 05:56:44 ozzloy: i can pick one off the shelf at my local supermarket... Jul 03 05:56:57 ahh. then i think you need t-mobile or there might be cingular Jul 03 05:57:02 oooh Jul 03 05:57:03 usa Jul 03 05:57:05 you are in trouble Jul 03 05:57:11 naaa Jul 03 05:57:17 as best i know no use carrier offers sim-only contracts Jul 03 05:57:18 T_T Jul 03 05:57:24 or u have to specially ask about for them Jul 03 05:57:31 dont know about pre-paid Jul 03 05:57:32 raster: two of them habe pre-paid sims Jul 03 05:57:41 b ut in general u need to sign up for a contract and u get a phone with it Jul 03 05:57:52 att and tmobile are the big ones here Jul 03 05:57:53 ljp: do they force u to buy the phone too? Jul 03 05:57:55 t mobile Jul 03 05:58:01 raster: no Jul 03 05:58:04 ok Jul 03 05:58:09 but you do have to ask about it Jul 03 05:58:11 its improved since i last lived there Jul 03 05:58:12 :) Jul 03 05:58:26 so, no one is getting dropped to an angstorm login prompt with FSO? Jul 03 05:58:27 the usa is fairly backwards in terms of consumer freedom in the mobile-space Jul 03 05:58:34 well, I visit every so often Jul 03 05:58:56 i think usa is backwards in consumer lots-of-things Jul 03 05:59:10 lol Jul 03 05:59:14 ferric: where did you get the image that you flashed? Jul 03 05:59:14 paying fro receiving txt and voice calls is robbery Jul 03 05:59:21 http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ Jul 03 05:59:24 i think i got the wrong image Jul 03 05:59:30 wow you think the us is bad come to canada, home of the free land of the monoploy Jul 03 05:59:51 yeah, i heard canada's worse for iPhone too Jul 03 05:59:56 ozzloy: if you don't have a GSM phone yet, it's probably a good idea to buy a cheap one (with a SIM) so that you have a backup for your Freerunner. Jul 03 06:00:05 should know better that something called fso-image-om-gta01.jffs2 is bad :/ Jul 03 06:00:21 ozzloy: just use Qtopia. it'll work Jul 03 06:00:31 well, except for voip now Jul 03 06:00:34 oh ya its insane for the iphone raping charges and min 3 YEAR contract Jul 03 06:00:54 ljp: will using QT give me a sim card? Jul 03 06:00:56 ljp: is Qtopia still 'warez' or is that license thing sorted out now? Jul 03 06:01:03 cuz that'd be awesome Jul 03 06:01:09 Railer, I heard that it's 'only' a $150 fee to cancel the contract. Jul 03 06:01:19 mmontour: its only warez if you use libamr Jul 03 06:01:27 and dont have a license from 3gpp Jul 03 06:01:32 and you want to see the great prices Jul 03 06:01:46 ljp: what's libamr? Jul 03 06:02:02 something you wont see in qtopia anymore Jul 03 06:02:17 haha wow Jul 03 06:02:24 Nice deals you got up there, Railer :P Jul 03 06:02:41 OK, I don't think I'll use libamr. QTopia didn't work on my GTA01 the last time I tried it, but I'll give it another try this weekend (time permitting) Jul 03 06:02:54 hmm interesting Jul 03 06:03:30 right now i'm with verizon, but i'm not on a contract Jul 03 06:03:54 wasnt verizon cdma? Jul 03 06:03:56 so i guess i can switch to something att or tmobile. what do you guys suggest? Jul 03 06:04:06 * raster shrugs Jul 03 06:04:07 dunno Jul 03 06:04:15 raster: yeah, so i'll have to switch Jul 03 06:04:17 * raster <- not in yankee land Jul 03 06:04:17 last I checked, which was two years ago, t-mobile Jul 03 06:04:23 ferric: Do you have a GTA01, or an 02? And did you flash the kernel as well? Jul 03 06:04:32 01 and no i did not flash the kernel Jul 03 06:04:43 Ok, try flashing the kernel... Jul 03 06:05:06 AT&T or some other backwater local provider Jul 03 06:05:42 You can buy pre-paid SIM cards for AT&T or for T-Mobile on eBay -- that's where I got two of them (one of each). Jul 03 06:05:52 yep Jul 03 06:05:53 No contract, no phone... Jul 03 06:06:08 no hands Jul 03 06:06:16 mwester, yea.. and if you want to deal some drugs you're all set... ;) Jul 03 06:06:22 mwester: trying that other image first. Jul 03 06:06:25 no handlebars Jul 03 06:06:27 the one called Openmok-* Jul 03 06:07:28 http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-products/iphone_voice_data_packages Jul 03 06:07:29 i think i like the suggestion of getting another phone as a backup Jul 03 06:07:39 gettin' rogered Jul 03 06:07:42 ozzloy: go get a pre=paid SIM card at any tmobile store Jul 03 06:07:46 its about $50 Jul 03 06:08:06 prepaid is too expensive to really use Jul 03 06:08:18 Ideally, yes. Jul 03 06:08:21 thankgod the neo's aren't useful yet :D Jul 03 06:08:24 For testing purposes, it's alright. Jul 03 06:08:29 haha Jul 03 06:08:35 Gee, thanks, Ferric. -_- Jul 03 06:08:44 just sayin'! Jul 03 06:09:06 i plan on actually using the neo Jul 03 06:09:27 I hope to actually use the FR! Jul 03 06:09:42 even without phone capabilities, it's a neat device Jul 03 06:10:01 actually I just really want to look extra cool Jul 03 06:10:02 yeah, i'm hoping i can actually use the FR for calling Jul 03 06:10:03 Good for you, Railer! Jul 03 06:10:06 :) Jul 03 06:10:13 Railer: heh Jul 03 06:11:08 i have a feeling my tmobile prepaid sim won't work Jul 03 06:11:15 there were some issues with those weren't ther Jul 03 06:11:29 Naw, those were AT&T Jul 03 06:11:59 ferric, it will work fine. Jul 03 06:12:10 and AT&T works fine too, I might add :p Jul 03 06:12:15 oh cool. Jul 03 06:12:29 (I have and have tried both) Jul 03 06:12:29 what was the deal with some ppl having to send their phone back to michael for some weird gsm bug to get fixed? Jul 03 06:12:46 im installing toolchain for openmoko. when i gave " bitbake meta-toolchain-openmoko" it is giving error like " Please set the 'CACHE' variable ". can anyone help in resolving this error? Jul 03 06:12:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT this says there are some sims that att doesn't like Jul 03 06:12:50 because he couldn't send out gsm firmware updates? Jul 03 06:13:10 because... IT'S A CONSPIRACY! Jul 03 06:13:37 * Railer watching Wipeout Jul 03 06:15:15 k, that didn't worrk Jul 03 06:15:20 how do i flash the kernel? Jul 03 06:15:55 Hmm? Jul 03 06:16:06 Not using dfu-util? Jul 03 06:18:08 ferric: same way - just different parameters to dfu-util Jul 03 06:18:17 yep, sorry should've read the FM Jul 03 06:18:34 :D Jul 03 06:18:45 silly ferric :) Jul 03 06:18:54 go go gadget dfu-util! Jul 03 06:19:16 hrm, stupid cell, hurry up and finish charging already! Jul 03 06:21:20 ok no go Jul 03 06:21:25 flashed the kernel and the xserver Jul 03 06:21:33 er, s/xserver/rootfs/ Jul 03 06:21:39 still getting dropped to login prompt Jul 03 06:22:04 Joerg, oh and another flaw is when it's finished a complete charge cycle (when booted), it then proceeds to discharge. Jul 03 06:22:09 What silliness. Jul 03 06:22:23 login prompt? o.O Jul 03 06:22:30 Ferric, did you select Boot? Jul 03 06:23:40 kyep Jul 03 06:23:42 it says Jul 03 06:23:46 'Starting Xserver Jul 03 06:23:55 and om-gta01 login: Jul 03 06:24:09 login? Jul 03 06:24:12 gta01? o.O Jul 03 06:24:35 Dave: (discharge) how can you tell? Jul 03 06:25:02 Haha, that too is a good question in and of itself, Joerg! Jul 03 06:25:13 yep Jul 03 06:25:15 * ferric ponders. Jul 03 06:25:20 The battery icon in the matchbox-panel changes to green filled Jul 03 06:25:24 then becomes half green filled Jul 03 06:25:31 and keeps decreasing (while plugged in) Jul 03 06:25:46 this has been my experience every time I leave a freerunner plugged in to "charge" overnight Jul 03 06:25:50 i see a lot of error while loading shared libraries Jul 03 06:26:05 I get up and they're like 2/3 green (from being completely charged) Jul 03 06:26:34 Then again, admittedly it's hard to tell without any real information; thanks crappy freerunner interface / status display. Jul 03 06:26:46 Dave: Huh, so this is the same when you pull USB at end of charge? How long will FR run off battery? Jul 03 06:27:16 Depends what I'm doing with it, usually a while. Jul 03 06:28:06 this makes me not want to buy a FR just yet Jul 03 06:28:11 Joerg, it'd be SO wonderful if the battery status indicator actually gave you useful information. Jul 03 06:28:18 ozzloy, just don't listen to us ;) Jul 03 06:28:29 Dave: I've seen the green bat-indicator showing weird things, I wouldn't trust in it Jul 03 06:28:42 yeah :P Jul 03 06:28:44 I never do Jul 03 06:28:46 I plug it in Jul 03 06:29:02 so how is the VOIP over the wifi looking? Jul 03 06:29:03 Dave: well wait, does that mean i should listen? paradoxical?!? Jul 03 06:29:04 it SOMETIMES changes to a lightning bolt, perhaps 60sec later. Jul 03 06:29:13 what a piece of crap :D Jul 03 06:29:32 I'm sure the internal chip doesn't take THAT long to negotiate power transfer. Jul 03 06:29:53 I am trying to install the openmoko package (.cab) file on imate ppc (htc-universal) but it fails to open files, and I do not know how to copy them manually ( http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalHowtoInstallLinux ) Jul 03 06:29:55 Dave: the question is: how long will FR run off the fresh charged "defect" bat Jul 03 06:30:14 eh? Jul 03 06:30:35 defect battery, oh you mean the one which is now charging, but was deeply discharged, as mentioned earlier? :) Jul 03 06:30:43 yep Jul 03 06:30:49 Unsure, it's still charging :) Jul 03 06:31:06 (and I can actually believe that) Jul 03 06:31:54 Joerg, want me to let you know, tomorrow? Jul 03 06:32:04 ok, so don't look at the bat indicator, it's somewhat broken (the green one in 2007.2). Try FSO instead, I got better results Jul 03 06:33:59 yep, let us know. just jump in on kernel on "My Gta02s wont charge" thread. Or find me here in IRC Jul 03 06:34:52 Aha, alright :P Jul 03 06:35:03 I'll just use it as normal then, tomorrow, and keep you aprised. Jul 03 06:35:12 Dave: even when the time is somewhat standard, at least you revived a "dead" bat the way we intend to suggest for a work around Jul 03 06:35:14 so how is the VOIP over the wifi looking? Jul 03 06:35:18 aite trying to flash rootfs again post kernel flash Jul 03 06:36:04 I am trying to install the openmoko package (.cab) file on imate ppc (htc-universal) but it fails to open files, and I do not know how to copy them manually ( http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalHowtoInstallLinux ) Jul 03 06:36:25 I hear flashing your kernel is a good way to get out of the army? Jul 03 06:36:33 bah :p Jul 03 06:36:39 Well said, canuck :p Jul 03 06:36:52 hey they all cant be gold Jul 03 06:36:57 so assuming i go and get a att phone and stuff, can i just take the sim out and put it in the FR and use it? maybe dropped calls every so often? Jul 03 06:37:29 yep Jul 03 06:37:32 exactly! Jul 03 06:37:45 does order whiel flashing kernel/rootfs matter Jul 03 06:37:46 ? Jul 03 06:37:54 No, order doesn't matter. Jul 03 06:38:07 nope Jul 03 06:38:12 i wonder if i need a new uboot then Jul 03 06:38:20 uhhh Jul 03 06:38:32 but using right file is important ;-) Jul 03 06:38:34 i'm running uboot-1.2.0 Jul 03 06:38:41 Dave: and what of this battery charge business? Jul 03 06:38:45 ferric: have you tried booting a second time? ISTR one of the FSO images had a bug that affected the first boot. Jul 03 06:38:49 What of it? :P Jul 03 06:38:56 ... Jul 03 06:38:57 Openmoko-fso-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080617-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 03 06:39:13 mmontour: yes - multiple boots now Jul 03 06:39:20 ferric: Oh, that u-boot may be old enough that you need to do "nand erase rootfs" from the u-boot console before flashing your rootfs. Jul 03 06:39:29 i wasn't reading too closely, but it looked like you were saying that the FR charging is wonky Jul 03 06:39:36 ferric: you're talking about FreeRunner?!!!!!??? Jul 03 06:39:48 no Jul 03 06:39:51 gta01 Jul 03 06:39:57 ahhh Jul 03 06:40:04 mmontour: was gonna try that next Jul 03 06:40:22 i do have a debug board tho, so if i feel adventurous i'll try upgrading uboot too Jul 03 06:40:27 yep so maybe erase nand may help. there's a little bug in dfu-util Jul 03 06:41:02 nah, what for? just because it's fun? Jul 03 06:41:07 hmmm Jul 03 06:41:10 hello Jul 03 06:41:23 Dave: ^? Jul 03 06:41:31 Yes, Mr. Will. Jul 03 06:41:32 so I failed to compile fso, I should probably update git Jul 03 06:41:39 Dave: :-P Jul 03 06:41:50 ;) Jul 03 06:41:51 so I hear US distribution is near... Jul 03 06:41:56 any news on that? Jul 03 06:42:06 engadget says store opens 7/4 Jul 03 06:42:06 goodwill: likely 4th of july! Jul 03 06:42:19 that's my half birthday Jul 03 06:42:27 7/4 .. In what timezone? :) Jul 03 06:42:31 any idea where the distribution center for west coast will be. Jul 03 06:42:42 like it matters what tz? Jul 03 06:42:49 no Jul 03 06:42:58 ozzloy, my mouse might wear out from reloading! Jul 03 06:43:07 heh Jul 03 06:43:14 what exactly you can do with debug board ? any docs ? Jul 03 06:43:25 flash Jul 03 06:43:50 yeah i think the nand did not get erased Jul 03 06:43:54 had a date of may 17 2007 Jul 03 06:44:17 ferric: for u-boot you can try an image I built a while ago - http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.3%2bsvnr4297-r0.bin Jul 03 06:45:03 so does anyone from openmoko ever come in here? Jul 03 06:46:45 alright, last try for tonight Jul 03 06:46:49 then i'll do uboot tomorrow Jul 03 06:47:11 thx for the image, mmontour Jul 03 06:47:54 np - it should work fine, but let me know if you have any trouble with it. Jul 03 06:48:15 will do. Jul 03 06:48:26 was gettign a bnch of shared libs missing errors Jul 03 06:48:33 looks like the rotofs wasnt' getting flshed correctl Jul 03 06:48:40 correctly Jul 03 06:49:10 yeah, that sounds like the "nand erase rootfs" thing. Jul 03 06:51:45 DAVE! Jul 03 06:53:36 YES!? Jul 03 06:54:04 Hi. Jul 03 06:54:24 Yes, greetings be to you, Railer. Jul 03 06:54:43 Whats the story with the WIFI VOIP, will it work? Jul 03 06:55:21 No idea :) Jul 03 06:55:28 Railer: why wouldn't it, assuming that someone writes it? Jul 03 06:55:30 mmontour: worked - thanks! Jul 03 06:55:50 yay. Jul 03 06:55:53 Has anyone tested it yet? No clue. Is it practical, probably not yet :) Jul 03 06:56:32 hm, got to please wait.. Jul 03 06:56:49 Dave: no. Jul 03 06:57:08 No? Jul 03 06:57:11 hm. ok booted Jul 03 06:57:17 but it says, zhone! and no dbus Jul 03 06:57:37 Boot it again. Jul 03 06:57:58 ho? Jul 03 06:58:02 er how? Jul 03 06:58:22 There is a difference between "in theory" vs actually works, all the programming in the world can get the packets to move through the hardware any faster Jul 03 06:58:49 can't Jul 03 06:58:56 and, correct :p Jul 03 06:59:03 cant sorry Jul 03 06:59:18 fuck it made a call!!!! Jul 03 06:59:25 i mean, pardon my french et all Jul 03 06:59:30 Huzzah! Jul 03 06:59:31 er, et al Jul 03 06:59:32 if it "can" then i need like 100 units Jul 03 06:59:47 haha Jul 03 06:59:52 Of course it does. Jul 03 07:00:01 Silly disbelieving people. Jul 03 07:00:44 I know tons of commerical drivers who spend tons of cell time sitting in hotels with free wifi Jul 03 07:01:41 Railer: Then perhaps the answer you need is that nobody has tried it yet, and perhaps that's something you should undertake for the community! Jul 03 07:02:37 Hardware can do it, certainly. Software may or may not be baked.. I don't have a free runner yet. Jul 03 07:02:43 I'm not a good enough programmer, I'm just good enough to do grunt work, which keeps me very busy Jul 03 07:04:02 you want me to setup a server and website on this puppy no problems, but building a solid fast VOIP over WIFI is over my head Jul 03 07:04:15 good morning Jul 03 07:04:27 ok damn thing makes calls but won't hang up Jul 03 07:04:45 and won't go to the screen after the dialer screen even when it is in the process of making calls Jul 03 07:05:05 Railer, I expect a bit part of your commercial driver problem will be that the hotel wifi will often be crap. Jul 03 07:06:01 is it possible to embed two sim cards in one ? Jul 03 07:06:46 there's phones that support that Zoup Jul 03 07:06:49 or there used to be Jul 03 07:07:20 well actually only partly true, many wifi's are often unused, but trust me these drivers are currently very rich and will run to the hotel who can cut their phone bills, and a good wifi system is getting cheaper by the day Jul 03 07:07:24 ferric: there are phone support two sim cards , i heared that its possible to write second sim card in first one , choose the provider to boot by Jul 03 07:09:47 Anybody build your libraries for applications in moko/local/packages? Jul 03 07:11:52 So if there is no admins how does a guy get banned around here? Jul 03 07:14:51 i think some body can control ChanServ Jul 03 07:15:05 There's always admins Jul 03 07:15:34 morning Jul 03 07:16:51 railer: i might mention this channel is populated by talented people you could always py to program. Jul 03 07:16:56 (NOT ME. i'm busy) Jul 03 07:18:02 Zoup: that's called twincard Jul 03 07:18:27 I intend to write programs for FR, just more to my abilities, Games, small apps Jul 03 07:20:10 set up a startrek theme as soon as i get a unit Jul 03 07:20:59 Railer: may i recomend the lcars theme for maemo as inspiration? Jul 03 07:21:11 absolutly baby! Jul 03 07:21:17 as a member of the colorblind, LCARS works well for me. Jul 03 07:21:50 It's on my tv and my pda, now my phone Jul 03 07:22:48 hey, I was wondering if there would be a US store Jul 03 07:22:53 or if I should order from Europe Jul 03 07:22:58 have some drawings vectors and sound effects already to go Jul 03 07:28:35 night Jul 03 07:29:32 Mornin Jul 03 07:30:05 just want to say that I really like the way the openmokomakefile does multithreading, it rocks Jul 03 07:30:19 downloads files while compiling others, great! Jul 03 07:30:34 Hopscotch:Have you build libraries for your application in moko/local/packages? Jul 03 07:33:57 nope Jul 03 07:35:53 * goodwill is still trying to build fso Jul 03 07:37:11 everyone that tries fso is trying and trying :) Jul 03 07:37:29 :-P Jul 03 07:38:01 I am trying to understand bitbake and the rest as much as possible before I get the hardware Jul 03 07:38:18 wes, it's a good start Jul 03 07:39:10 it would be nice if the anjuta-plugins from poky works for Openmoko distro Jul 03 07:39:21 i think that it could be really nice Jul 03 07:39:48 oh man.. my laptop must be shocked by the load openmokomakefile is putting on it: CPU both cores at 100%, Disk thrashing, wifi active, 3D doing compiz Jul 03 07:40:27 it's getting hot? :) Jul 03 07:40:45 my laptop does the same Jul 03 07:43:42 I'm surprised this piece of dell sh*t doesn't roll over and die Jul 03 07:44:08 Can't tell if it's getting hot, it's not on my lap (fortunatly) Jul 03 07:44:44 does make quite a bit of noise :) Jul 03 07:47:15 'lo Jul 03 07:47:23 hi Jul 03 07:48:20 mehtril: I could not give up emacs Jul 03 07:48:35 is there any screen shots of FSO? Jul 03 07:48:44 HauDyrArb: yes...and a working image Jul 03 07:48:51 HauDyrArb: its still very much a baby Jul 03 07:49:09 is the moko powerful enough to run interperated languages, or does everything need to be crosscompiled and run as binary? Jul 03 07:49:20 can you point me to an address Jul 03 07:49:33 sure it can run interpreted languages Jul 03 07:50:03 HauDyrArb: for screenshot or fso image? Jul 03 07:50:15 screen shot Jul 03 07:50:16 Python is working (some services uses it) and jalimo as a jvm Jul 03 07:50:20 HauDyrArb: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ Jul 03 07:50:29 thx Jul 03 07:50:37 np Jul 03 07:50:45 mehtril, thanks. guess i'll need to learn python then :) Jul 03 07:50:58 Kamping_Kaiser: it shoudl be easy Jul 03 07:51:11 it's a pending language for me :) Jul 03 07:51:14 Kamping_Kaiser: or Java Jul 03 07:51:27 goodwill tou can't start emacs? in your laptop? Jul 03 07:51:32 Wander_w, i'll go with python ... Jul 03 07:51:33 shellscript is an interpreted language as well Jul 03 07:51:45 well, more or less Jul 03 07:51:56 mehtril: eh? Jul 03 07:51:59 shellscipt is shellscript Jul 03 07:52:08 mehtril: I could not give up emacs Jul 03 07:52:11 it's a language and its not compiled Jul 03 07:52:18 mehtril: you were talkign about ajunta Jul 03 07:52:19 so it's an interpreted language Jul 03 07:52:26 ah!! yes Jul 03 07:52:28 HauDyrArb: some screenies for you: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/07/02/fso-meets-ezx/ Jul 03 07:52:54 except it seems its a different phone Jul 03 07:53:00 which I've never seen Jul 03 07:53:52 irs motorola ezx it seems Jul 03 07:54:21 their linux phone Jul 03 07:54:38 which I am pretty sure kinda sucks Jul 03 07:56:31 What sucks about the Motorola ezx? (I'm unfamiliar with that phone) Jul 03 07:57:58 HauDyrArb: you might want to make those thumbnails a little smaller ;) Jul 03 07:58:08 they're the originals just resized by the browser Jul 03 07:58:41 goodwill: sorry i meant you. are they yours? Jul 03 07:58:59 bah nvm Jul 03 07:59:06 alphabea1: they are not mine Jul 03 07:59:40 coffe time Jul 03 08:00:50 Wander_w: I dunno, its just like neither here nor there...it never really took off Jul 03 08:20:52 while I am trying to compile a package with the toolchain I get an error => libtool: link: cannot find the library `/space/fic/openmoko-daily/neo1973/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/glib-2.0-2.16.1-r4/glib-2.16.1/glib/libglib-2.0.la' or unhandled argument `/space/fic/openmoko-daily/neo1973/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/glib-2.0-2.16.1-r4/glib-2.16.1/glib/libglib-2.0.la Jul 03 08:25:48 how long is an openmoko compile supposed to run anyway? Jul 03 08:25:53 Ages. Jul 03 08:25:57 ah... Jul 03 08:26:04 4-18 hours depending on CPU Jul 03 08:26:05 (Geological ages) Jul 03 08:26:42 started yesterdag (and ran out of battery) and it's been running since 9 am Jul 03 08:27:01 and now it says "Running task 1214 of 6139" Jul 03 08:27:13 guess it'll take some more time :/ Jul 03 08:27:55 The last half of tasks are fast Jul 03 08:28:11 okay, good Jul 03 08:31:51 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * red8683fb80e0 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: rev illume to 1 second after blank for suspend Jul 03 08:31:51 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r9b6ce1ec9596 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.asu.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.asu.dev Jul 03 08:34:08 Wander_w: if you have multicore/cpu you can tweak things Jul 03 08:34:13 And you can also use ccache Jul 03 08:35:24 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r215b430719ff 10/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc: [om-pref-vers] update udev to 118 Jul 03 08:35:36 Ainulindale: allready have enabled the settings in local.conf Jul 03 08:35:43 but what's with the cache? Jul 03 08:36:24 It's a standard compilation cache, ccache Jul 03 08:36:36 lukhas: good luck for the conference Jul 03 08:37:02 Ainulindale: ah, and how do I enable that? Jul 03 08:37:33 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * reea828c3fe86 10/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: [openmoko] turn on packaged-staging for openmoko Jul 03 08:37:34 Err, it's pretty easy on gentoo Jul 03 08:37:40 For other distro, I don't know :-) Jul 03 08:38:08 what's the gentoo way then? Jul 03 08:39:23 howto gentoo ccache on google will give you the answer :-) Jul 03 08:39:35 hehe ok Jul 03 08:44:24 hmm.. my build fails Jul 03 08:44:32 I get an 404 on http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/e17.libs.eet_anoncvs.enlightenment.org__20080630.tar.gz Jul 03 08:45:09 and then it can't connect to cvs :( Jul 03 08:45:11 Wander_w: download it manually from somewhere Jul 03 08:45:16 stupid firewall here :( Jul 03 08:45:25 Then put it on the sources folder Jul 03 08:45:31 Then relaunch the make Jul 03 08:45:41 hmm... will try that, thanks! Jul 03 08:45:53 You're welcome Jul 03 08:45:54 try again Jul 03 08:45:59 (It works, don't worry, that's what I do) Jul 03 08:46:00 cvs has a limited connection count Jul 03 08:46:08 if too many peolpe use it at once itwill refuse connections Jul 03 08:46:10 raster: he has a firewall problem it seems Jul 03 08:46:16 ooh Jul 03 08:46:18 firewall Jul 03 08:46:19 yeah Jul 03 08:46:25 cvs pserver i have seen blocked before Jul 03 08:46:30 raster: No, it really is a fascist firewall :( Jul 03 08:47:05 can only connect to port 80 and 443 Jul 03 08:47:23 (I'm bouncing IRC of my home SSH server which runs on port 443) Jul 03 08:47:43 (shh, don't tell my boss) Jul 03 08:48:29 Wander_w: you should build a VPN Jul 03 08:48:31 that's what I do Jul 03 08:48:49 thats a good idea (again) Jul 03 08:50:05 well u'll nbeed to de-fascistize your firewall Jul 03 08:50:06 :) Jul 03 08:50:58 it's not my firewall Jul 03 08:51:50 it's (insert big coperation/goverment)'s firewall Jul 03 08:58:53 some u-boot JTAG guru here? Jul 03 08:59:34 hmm... is the FSO's phonekit available as an .opk package anywhere ? Or are we all supposed to just use the image ? Jul 03 09:08:41 polz: I think you have to build/use the image Jul 03 09:08:47 hmmm... the openmokomakefile is ignoring my http_proxy setting Jul 03 09:08:56 how do I get it to unignore it? Jul 03 09:09:02 that sucks. Jul 03 09:09:37 as I got my freerunner today would it be save to use the images form http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080703/ to see what is working and what ist not Jul 03 09:10:41 openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r2b3f8fdb9769 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): uboot-fix-reduce-post-boot-current-drastically.patch Jul 03 09:10:50 Bumbl: they should work to some degree Jul 03 09:11:48 Bumbl: my neo1973 seems to be working with a rootfs from scaredycat : http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Jul 03 09:11:54 Bumbl: you probably better off with http://downloads.openmoko.org/asu/ Jul 03 09:12:22 Bumbl: didnt the freerunner already come with 2007.2 image on it? Jul 03 09:12:29 and the kernel + neod + some scripts from mwester: http://moko.mwester.net/ Jul 03 09:12:46 I mean... even suspend seems to be working, wheeeee Jul 03 09:13:27 wheeee Jul 03 09:13:33 ok i will try asu Jul 03 09:13:45 xora: yes the freerunner ships with 2007.2 Jul 03 09:13:51 XorA: stop doing publicity :-p Jul 03 09:14:29 Ainulindale: if I was doing publicity I would shout FSO FSO FSO :-D Jul 03 09:16:04 :-) Jul 03 09:16:25 XorA: What I was wondering is, when I'll have my FR, what should I do in order to enjoy properly the phone ? Jul 03 09:16:37 XorA: bah. Now that gsmd seems to be working for me, I don't see a reason to downgrade to a phone which can't even recieve / send SMSs Jul 03 09:16:45 Ainulindale: beer and girls Jul 03 09:16:59 Ainulindale: use it as an ornament... no, an _artefact_ Jul 03 09:17:02 Ainulindale: break it; hack until fixed, rinse, repeat Jul 03 09:17:12 Ainulindale: thanks Jul 03 09:17:27 impact the world with it.. or bash in some sculls, it's big enough and the lanyard is also pretty strong :> Jul 03 09:17:37 I almost finished my slides, now I just have to read them again \o/ Jul 03 09:19:04 lukhas: Hey ! Whhheeeeen ! :-) Jul 03 09:19:17 More seriously, I was just asking what should I install on it :-) Jul 03 09:19:23 The more functional framework, right now Jul 03 09:19:40 OM 2007.2 has the most apps Jul 03 09:19:50 but ASU is the future Jul 03 09:19:58 aaaaw, crap, my neo just crashed... hard. Jul 03 09:19:59 at least that's what I grokked Jul 03 09:20:31 lukhas: nope, FSO is the future :-) Jul 03 09:20:38 lukhas: But you didn't answer : wheeeeeen ! :-) Jul 03 09:20:44 FSO is 1 layer under ASU Jul 03 09:20:58 try to find screenshots of FSO , you'll see Jul 03 09:21:03 I see you worked on your slides :-) Jul 03 09:21:06 yeah Jul 03 09:21:09 It was a test ! Jul 03 09:21:10 * Ainulindale whistles Jul 03 09:21:15 hehe Jul 03 09:21:42 So you didn't receive them yet ? Jul 03 09:21:43 * XorA doubts ASU is the future, without the gsm stack asu is just a bunch of barely working apps Jul 03 09:21:59 Ainulindale: nope, not yet Jul 03 09:22:10 person my bet is on raster Jul 03 09:22:11 * Ainulindale wails and cries Jul 03 09:22:23 lukhas: no ETA ? :-) Jul 03 09:22:42 ugh... it's REALLY crashed hard. Jul 03 09:23:19 polz: can you still power it on? Jul 03 09:23:43 Wander_w: no. Maybe the battery has gone flat. Jul 03 09:23:44 Ainulindale: not until we get an ETA from Openmoko Jul 03 09:23:55 anyway, afk, stressing for my talk :) Jul 03 09:24:06 I had left it in suspend for the whole night... Jul 03 09:24:09 Good luck lukhas Jul 03 09:24:18 and only charged it for less than an hour in the morning Jul 03 09:24:23 polz: hehe, does the openmoko still has that "feature" that you can't see if it's charging or not? Jul 03 09:24:36 thanks Jul 03 09:24:54 Wander_w: umm.. dunno :) Jul 03 09:25:25 polz: does the charging light come on when it's off, but is charging? Jul 03 09:25:43 what charging light ? It doesn't have a light Jul 03 09:26:04 the battery icon does change, though Jul 03 09:26:13 never mind then... I'll just remain silent until I've bought my own moko :) Jul 03 09:28:30 Wander_w: 10x for trying to help, though Jul 03 09:28:41 I think an incoming call totally depleted the battery Jul 03 09:29:04 at least that's what I hope Jul 03 09:29:08 what's the battery time like, anyway? Jul 03 09:29:14 because the phone seems to be dead no Jul 03 09:29:15 w Jul 03 09:29:27 3 hours talk, 6 hours standby... if you're lucky :P Jul 03 09:29:42 6 hours standby ?! Jul 03 09:30:19 ouch.... 6 hours is very very short Jul 03 09:30:23 yeah. At least that's what I got before suspend started working yesterday Jul 03 09:30:51 I don't know how long it's going to last now - I was hoping it might last a day Jul 03 09:32:03 I was kinda hoping it would last a day of playing with it Jul 03 09:32:37 suspend as in suspend to ram? Jul 03 09:32:40 you know, listening MP3, GPS, browsing Jul 03 09:32:44 You're talking about GTA01 or GTA02 ? or both ? Jul 03 09:33:18 Wander_w: haha, you wish Jul 03 09:33:24 Ainulindale: GTA01 Jul 03 09:33:26 polz: Yeah I do Jul 03 09:33:35 ooooh... a GTA01 Jul 03 09:33:35 Is it supposed to be better with 02 ? Jul 03 09:33:35 Ainulindale: I don't have a freerunner. Jul 03 09:33:50 Wander_w: I think you might be sorely disappointed. Jul 03 09:34:05 Ainulindale: I think the 02 is supposed to be slightly better. Jul 03 09:34:06 from what I've heard; GTA01 doesn't have ANY power management and GTA02 does Jul 03 09:34:24 not enough to get you a whole day's worth of browsing with the current software, though Jul 03 09:34:39 Wander_w: they both have power management problems. Jul 03 09:35:08 well.... if it's just the software, I might be able to fix that Jul 03 09:35:16 hardware is not my thing though Jul 03 09:35:16 Wander_w: and I don't know about 02, but the software on 01 doesn't seem to be using CPU clock freq. scaling Jul 03 09:36:03 Wander_w: well, it took a year for someone to come close to a fix for GSM suspend / resume issues Jul 03 09:36:57 so? Jul 03 09:37:00 Wander_w: you'll make us all happy if you manage that Jul 03 09:37:17 my biggest problem is Time Jul 03 09:37:23 just have to little of it Jul 03 09:37:49 Wander_w: convince someone from Openmoko to hire you :P Jul 03 09:38:44 haha... I bet my future boss-to-be won't be to happy that I quit before I start Jul 03 09:38:45 Wander_w: and if that doesn't work, then... well, sleep - she is for the weak ;) Jul 03 09:39:01 sleep is for those who want to be smart Jul 03 09:40:18 Wander_w: so you're still a student ? If you don't have a job yet, you have _plenty_ of time Jul 03 09:40:41 no, I am far from a student Jul 03 09:41:19 But my current employer got assimilated by a bigger compagny, so it's no more fun to work here Jul 03 09:41:36 do you have a family ? If you need more time for programming, you could get rid of them... Jul 03 09:41:36 So I took a new job Jul 03 09:41:40 lol Jul 03 09:42:12 then you could even find enough time to develop a filesystem or two ;> Jul 03 09:42:19 but dont copy Reiser Jul 03 09:42:23 After the "zwarte cross" ("Black offroad race") I should have more time Jul 03 09:42:30 Hey that's an idea, get rid of my family Jul 03 09:42:33 I'm calling the cleaners Jul 03 09:43:16 see www.powerpilsen.nl for an idea what takes up most of my time in the weekends Jul 03 09:43:25 (it's in dutch, but the pictures are not) Jul 03 09:44:13 woot the store is open Jul 03 09:44:27 woot Jul 03 09:45:06 powerpilsen sounds like a dinking game to me Jul 03 09:45:34 HauDyrArb: gee, ya think? :P Jul 03 09:46:51 how do I get an indication of the battery state on a neo1973 ? Jul 03 09:46:52 what?! GSM900 models SOLD OUT allready? Jul 03 09:48:23 polz: cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state ? Jul 03 09:48:51 Wander_w: there is no /proc/acpi Jul 03 09:48:52 (ok, maybe there is no ACPI on the neo) Jul 03 09:49:03 lol Jul 03 09:49:16 so try cd /proc; find -name battery Jul 03 09:49:53 Wander_w, its a super website Jul 03 09:50:23 thanks Jul 03 09:50:40 find /proc -name "*battvolt*" Jul 03 09:50:41 IIRC Jul 03 09:50:49 /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/battvolt <- there it is Jul 03 09:50:55 SpeedEvil: it's in /sys :) Jul 03 09:50:56 HauDyrArb: did you shoot the car? Jul 03 09:51:16 now i did Jul 03 09:51:18 :-) Jul 03 09:51:28 did you shoot it 6 times? :P Jul 03 09:51:46 (no-one ever shoots the car until you tell them to) Jul 03 09:52:38 the mouse needs to change to a cross hair Jul 03 09:53:04 and hand is not enough of a hint? Jul 03 09:53:09 s/and/a Jul 03 09:53:25 naa Jul 03 09:53:48 ok, I'll look into it.... when I have time Jul 03 09:54:04 then what does ZO! .... mean when you hit it 6 times Jul 03 09:54:27 It's a parody on a dutch beer commercial Jul 03 09:54:39 * HauDyrArb is clueless Jul 03 09:54:43 the dutch beer commercial went: "And now its time for a beer" Jul 03 09:54:58 and the website says "And now its time for a keg of beer" Jul 03 09:55:06 cool Jul 03 10:00:35 when im building toolchain for openmoko , i got this error " configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables " . can anyone help me? Jul 03 10:05:55 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r65be342e6cdb 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (__init__.py gsm.py ophoned.py protocol.py test.py): Added new ophoned service Jul 03 10:10:04 for the above error is in URL: http://rafb.net/p/2471JD51.html Jul 03 10:10:59 On the openmoko site it says 'GSM 900 sold out'. Already? http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner Jul 03 10:12:10 blaamann, they haven't actually had any 900 stock yet ... Jul 03 10:12:46 The online store does not seem to work. Jul 03 10:13:05 hehehe Jul 03 10:13:28 2op "After it takes all the information, and transfers you to the "Hi Trust" site, it gives a "Gateway Error 500". Jul 03 10:13:46 Has anyone seen that problem? Does anyone know of a fix? Jul 03 10:13:56 "100% FOSS on CPU" - nicely worded Jul 03 10:16:33 dvarnes: Looks like the European distributors will sell the 900 variants later this month. Jul 03 10:17:29 "Laser stylus pen" - where can i find more info on the pen shipped? Jul 03 10:19:55 http://www.quarton.com.tw/laser_pen_infiniter_xp_2.html Jul 03 10:20:06 (info from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware) Jul 03 10:20:21 (a page which will answer most of your questions) Jul 03 10:20:36 rwhitby, thanks mate Jul 03 10:21:05 unfortuneatrely it falls to bits pretty quick :-( Jul 03 10:21:43 Has anyone successfully placed an order via the online store? Jul 03 10:24:51 <`pwgen`> mwester:ping Jul 03 10:25:02 www.handheld-linux.com sells 900/1800 Jul 03 10:26:07 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r4500a29fc341 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Created ophoned service Jul 03 10:27:40 w00t\ Jul 03 10:27:45 just ordered a freerunner Jul 03 10:29:15 torpor: Wow - I tried to order one, but got an error from their credit card processor. Did you access the store via Internet Explorer? I wonder if it doesn't work with firefox. Jul 03 10:29:15 * Kamping_Kaiser wonders if the lasers sold are the type just banned by the NSW/AU govt. Jul 03 10:29:47 NSW/AU will eventually ban everything. Jul 03 10:29:47 hmm... Jul 03 10:29:58 can the neo1973 charge itself while in suspend ? Jul 03 10:30:55 <`pwgen`> yes .. Jul 03 10:31:44 <`pwgen`> polz: why not ? Jul 03 10:32:45 `pwgen`: I don't know... maybe because when the CPU is in suspend, it can't identify itself as an USB device Jul 03 10:33:18 `pwgen`: so I'm not sure if it allows itself to draw 500mA Jul 03 10:36:54 <`pwgen`> polz: there is a tool to enable the 500mA at the usb host ( dfu-util i think or blackberrry related stuff ) Jul 03 10:39:15 * mjr would think the plugging in would be a wakeup event, at which point the neo can identify, but not sure Jul 03 10:39:44 and after it's decided it can draw 500mA, I think it does for the duration of being plugged in Jul 03 10:56:46 <`pwgen`> mjr: i you are plugged into usb an initiate an suspend event, the usb stack on the host goes down Jul 03 11:24:49 Is anyone else getting the "Hi Trust Gateway Error 500" message when trying to order via the online store? Jul 03 11:29:25 Hi. Does anyone know where I can find info on the GTA03? Jul 03 11:29:41 bove: mailing list archives Jul 03 11:29:48 tnx Jul 03 11:29:55 try the kernel one first Jul 03 11:30:04 or the hardware one Jul 03 11:30:31 heh @ gsm900 sold out Jul 03 11:31:16 bove: briefly - Glamo removed - camera added, new case. Jul 03 11:31:16 they're probably all at the EU distributors Jul 03 11:31:26 Psi: And can't actually order 850 MHz either. Jul 03 11:31:33 Or in transit. Jul 03 11:31:39 SpeedEvil: whats glamo? Jul 03 11:31:41 rtm: heh why? Jul 03 11:31:44 rtm: the shop's not supposed to be open yet anyway Jul 03 11:31:46 paab: accelerator Jul 03 11:31:51 ah Jul 03 11:31:56 GTA03 drops the 2d/3d accelerator, which has turned out not to be very great - and adds a camera. Also the case changes in unrevealed ways. Jul 03 11:32:14 rwhitby: Why open the website, and take orders, if it's not open yet? Jul 03 11:32:18 do we know any specs on the camera? Jul 03 11:32:24 Psi: no Jul 03 11:32:37 Psi: it can IIRC be up to 16MP in hardware. Jul 03 11:32:56 Psi: so in practice, we know nothing. It's dependant on what imager is used Jul 03 11:33:03 heh, somehow i doubt they will be using a 16mp sensor :P Jul 03 11:33:16 VGA costs around $5 Jul 03 11:33:28 For a decent one, in volume. Jul 03 11:33:45 the main problem with cell phone cameras is still the optics Jul 03 11:33:52 yeah Jul 03 11:33:52 Yeah. Jul 03 11:34:15 be nice if it was 1.3MP, then you could get 1280x1024 Jul 03 11:34:15 rtm: just to annoy you? ;-) Jul 03 11:34:15 As I've said repeatedly, a camera is not only for taking pretty pictures. Jul 03 11:34:15 SpeedEvil: we add a special "yo momma" button Jul 03 11:34:16 i hope it atleast will be 1.3 or 2 MP Jul 03 11:34:22 it does super-special top-secret things Jul 03 11:34:37 rwhitby: Mission accomplished then. Jul 03 11:34:40 SpeedEvil: yeah, theres barcode reading etc.. Jul 03 11:34:48 lots of cool stuff you can do with a camera Jul 03 11:34:50 # of megapixels is largely irrelevant Jul 03 11:34:55 if we have a crappy lens Jul 03 11:35:01 we can put all the megapixels on we like Jul 03 11:35:04 it wil llook like arse Jul 03 11:35:06 u need Jul 03 11:35:09 1. a good lens Jul 03 11:35:10 rtm: subscribe to the announcements list and you'll find out when the shop officially opens Jul 03 11:35:20 or ask raster to find out :-) Jul 03 11:35:21 2. a well focused lens (can focus the image on the ccd array properly) Jul 03 11:35:22 raster, as long it is > 1 MP Jul 03 11:35:29 3. preferably a physically large ccd array Jul 03 11:35:38 HauDyrArb: depends on the lens Jul 03 11:35:44 4. Low dark noise Jul 03 11:35:54 a lot of lenses on featurphones honestly are rated no better than vga or even qvga Jul 03 11:35:55 yeah, >1 MP is fine with me Jul 03 11:36:03 5. The ability to take long (>1/60th of a second) images Jul 03 11:36:06 so its a waste of ccd receptors Jul 03 11:36:14 rwhitby: THere was an announcement on the community list from Harray@openmoko.com saying the store was open. Jul 03 11:36:24 6. good immunity to blinding in bright light. Jul 03 11:36:35 raster, i think VGA is too low Jul 03 11:36:43 rtm it was probably open right up until he said it :P Jul 03 11:36:46 then it was down Jul 03 11:36:54 rtm: my apologies - hadn't read that one yet. Jul 03 11:37:05 rtm: ignore everything I said then :-) Jul 03 11:37:11 SpeedEvil: we need good ccd sensitivity for that (ie the low dark noise) Jul 03 11:37:15 but yes Jul 03 11:37:16 yeah Jul 03 11:37:17 that'd be nice Jul 03 11:37:28 being able to take pics in low light would definitly be a plus Jul 03 11:37:34 HauDyrArb: you may indeed think that - but > vga is POINTLESS if the lens sucks Jul 03 11:37:44 raster: not quite the same Jul 03 11:37:50 its a camera on a phone Jul 03 11:38:02 it is normally, at best, intended to take photos of people for your phonebook photo entries Jul 03 11:38:04 thats about it Jul 03 11:38:09 and vga is sufficient for that Jul 03 11:38:11 its overkill Jul 03 11:38:14 raster, you ar ofcourse correct the lens is VERY important Jul 03 11:38:15 for that yes Jul 03 11:38:21 raster: dark noise and sensitivity are related, sensitivity can be spoiled by high readout noise. Jul 03 11:38:21 BUT i'd like a better lens and ccd than that too Jul 03 11:38:24 but for other things you may need more MP Jul 03 11:38:33 there is just much more than the megapixel game Jul 03 11:38:37 I wish there was a standard camera socket. Jul 03 11:38:41 That would be so cool. Jul 03 11:38:55 how do you mean? Jul 03 11:39:02 rca? Jul 03 11:39:05 There are socketed camera modules Jul 03 11:39:08 ah Jul 03 11:39:13 GTA03 + Zeiss lens :-) Jul 03 11:39:17 that plug into a 8*8*4mm or so camera. Jul 03 11:39:23 As a complete module. Jul 03 11:39:30 Including autofocus lens. Jul 03 11:39:37 i think id prefer it built in Jul 03 11:39:42 But there are no cross-manufacturer standards. Jul 03 11:39:43 HauDyrArb: sony owns the 'Zeiss' name, so having a Zeiss lens no longer is any guarentee of quality... Jul 03 11:39:44 but both would be good Jul 03 11:39:47 48mm sensor and then you could put on SLR optics of your own choice :P Jul 03 11:39:49 the 900MHz version is already sold out? Jul 03 11:39:53 Psi: no - it's designed to be built in. Jul 03 11:40:08 kW: i think the website is abit confused, but thats just a guess Jul 03 11:40:17 Psi: it's a camera socket mounted on the board, into which you plug a complete camera with lens. Jul 03 11:40:19 SpeedEvil: ah, i get ya Jul 03 11:40:21 yeah, that would be good Jul 03 11:40:59 Psi: but while there are socketed cameras, there are no cross-manufacturer - or few - standards. Jul 03 11:42:36 So there isn't an easy choice for a user-upgradable caera. Jul 03 11:42:47 has anyone here had a gta02 opened up and can tell me how much extra room there is? Jul 03 11:43:16 Psi: reportedly less room than GTA01 Jul 03 11:43:20 heh Jul 03 11:43:22 Psi: but ... Jul 03 11:43:32 Mek_, actually i ment GTA03 + 200mm SLR lens Jul 03 11:43:33 I'm trying to find info in the mailingslists on future processor speed. Anyone know if a faster cpu can be expected in GTA03? I read somewhere that it will use the same SOC as GTA02 Jul 03 11:43:42 just wondering if i home IR remote mod is possible Jul 03 11:43:45 bove: same as 02 Jul 03 11:43:52 bove: all stays the same as 02 Jul 03 11:44:02 bove: apart from camera and glamo removal Jul 03 11:44:54 Hmm... 400 MHz sounds a little slow to me. What generation of Pentium architecture can it be compared to? Jul 03 11:45:08 u are never goign to get "user upgradable" parts on a p[hone Jul 03 11:45:14 unbles su want a phone the size of a laptop Jul 03 11:45:23 u get what u get Jul 03 11:45:29 or u pick another model to buy Jul 03 11:45:34 that is closer to what u want Jul 03 11:45:45 raster: some camera modules are designed as socketed Jul 03 11:46:15 Psi: i see Jul 03 11:46:24 raster: to avoid having to be reflowed. Jul 03 11:46:58 probably easier to change to a better camera duing production if its socketed too. Jul 03 11:47:08 it still wont be user-upgradable Jul 03 11:47:20 raster: no reason why not with some of the modules. Jul 03 11:47:38 raster: the camera can be removed with no tools, and new modules can be made available. Jul 03 11:48:02 with the typical life of a cellphone i cant see it working Jul 03 11:48:25 Psi: it depends. If a socket is chosen for other reasons. Jul 03 11:48:33 yeah, i agree Jul 03 11:48:58 Psi: then it's easy to upgrade. It does take more board area, but it makes your selection of cameras not limited to those that can be reflowed. Jul 03 11:49:05 SpeedEvil: we arent going to make new ones available Jul 03 11:49:14 just the logistics alone is a nightmare Jul 03 11:49:16 has anyone run WINE emulator on Freerunner or 1973? Jul 03 11:49:26 bove: cant Jul 03 11:49:36 bove: why? Jul 03 11:49:43 requires a x86 cpu Jul 03 11:49:48 wine emulates x86 windows abi's for x86 binaries Jul 03 11:49:49 Wine Is Not an Emulator Jul 03 11:49:58 ^ Jul 03 11:50:03 raster: others can - if they were sold in reasonable volumes - some vendors make cameras available. I'm just raisign a possibility, it's probably one that's not plausible for other reasons. Jul 03 11:50:11 ohh... I thought neo was x86 :\ Jul 03 11:50:11 you could emulate an x86 and install windows Jul 03 11:50:14 You coild do it with QEMU. Jul 03 11:50:16 not that you would like the results Jul 03 11:50:23 QEMU+linux+wine Jul 03 11:50:27 * SpeedEvil giggles. Jul 03 11:50:29 bove: NO phone is x86 Jul 03 11:50:42 You might get 1% speed - of a P100 laptop if lucky. Jul 03 11:50:54 SpeedEvil: then why wine? why not just run all of windows in wemu.. at least it wil lbe "compatible" :) Jul 03 11:50:58 it will be.. SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW Jul 03 11:51:06 raster: and buy windows?! Jul 03 11:51:14 SpeedEvil, better FR+Linux+QEMU+XP Jul 03 11:51:22 SpeedEvil: well someone wants to run windows software - mayaswell pay the piper. Jul 03 11:51:28 they are chosing to do it Jul 03 11:51:32 they mayaswell pay the tax Jul 03 11:51:35 they have chosen to Jul 03 11:51:36 raster: no they aren't. Jul 03 11:51:37 lukhas: so, how went the talk part ? Jul 03 11:51:38 what the hell do you want x86 for anyway Jul 03 11:51:49 raster: much software is simply unavailable on non-windows. Jul 03 11:52:04 then dont use the windows version Jul 03 11:52:06 heh qemu+vista on neo Jul 03 11:52:10 that would be so funny Jul 03 11:52:16 pointless Jul 03 11:52:16 totally Jul 03 11:52:16 u insist on using that software - it has prerequesites of needing windows Jul 03 11:52:19 it is still a choice Jul 03 11:52:27 raster: Some software has no linux equivalent. Jul 03 11:52:32 There's actually just one piece of software that I've run with wine, and that is the booking software we use at work Jul 03 11:52:34 then dont use it Jul 03 11:52:43 exactly .. because it sucks ass Jul 03 11:52:52 or pay for the privelidge as the windows world is intended to work Jul 03 11:54:59 raster: don't you have some code to write ? :-p Jul 03 11:55:35 For the V12 in 04. Jul 03 11:57:40 Wine Myth #10 makes for interesting reading: http://www.winehq.org/site/myths#only_x86 Jul 03 12:00:09 Ainulindale: i do :) Jul 03 12:00:41 I would like to for my part Jul 03 12:00:54 But seriously, it's pretty pretty hard to get into openembedded or openmoko Jul 03 12:01:04 There's virtually no documentation on "how to start" Jul 03 12:01:11 pabs3: yes we know there is winelib etc. Jul 03 12:01:14 but .. if u have the src Jul 03 12:01:19 u dont NEED wine to port it Jul 03 12:01:20 it can help Jul 03 12:01:29 but really at tht point. just port it properly Jul 03 12:01:43 Ainulindale: mokomakefile Jul 03 12:01:46 search for it Jul 03 12:01:50 get it up and working Jul 03 12:01:53 lots of info on it Jul 03 12:01:59 its the easiest way to start Jul 03 12:02:02 I already used mokomakefile Jul 03 12:02:02 u now can build the os Jul 03 12:02:07 And already built OM Jul 03 12:02:11 and thusbuild software for any target om is built for Jul 03 12:02:14 I then tried to build FSO Jul 03 12:02:15 aah Jul 03 12:02:20 your'e on the NEXT step Jul 03 12:02:25 yeah.. openmoko seems like one of the easiest embedded platforms to start with Jul 03 12:03:24 mickey|zzZZzz: is it my browser or is fso.org's wiki's css broken? Jul 03 12:03:28 actually scarcthbox for maemo imho for a dev to get started with and constructively building their stuff was much easier Jul 03 12:04:06 never used maemo Jul 03 12:23:09 raster: I was saying before my colleagues called me for the last part of the BBQ (ice cream) : Jul 03 12:23:12 I tried to build FSO Jul 03 12:23:20 And it's not as easy as it seems for the newcomer Jul 03 12:32:30 Hey? Did the BBQ allready end? Jul 03 12:32:44 I thought it was scheduled for 18:00? Jul 03 12:32:56 when was the store opened ? Jul 03 12:33:23 a number of hours ago Jul 03 12:33:28 (today) Jul 03 12:33:32 Wander_w: I was talking about a BBQ in my company :-) Jul 03 12:33:40 Ainulindale: me too! :) Jul 03 12:34:36 and how is the 900MHz sold out ? Jul 03 12:35:25 I want my FR ! Jul 03 12:35:31 CVirus: I can't give you an official statement, but the rumours say that they didn't get any stock yet Jul 03 12:35:53 I hope OM sent Bearstech order, I'm quite expecting it Jul 03 12:36:02 CVirus, Ainulindale: can't you order them from any of the retailers? Jul 03 12:36:14 Wander_w and Ainulindale for start i recommend pokylinux Jul 03 12:36:22 Wander_w: I ordered two weeks ago Jul 03 12:36:26 it's a good dev platform, i like it Jul 03 12:36:31 methril: URL ? Jul 03 12:36:37 www.pokylinux.org Jul 03 12:36:48 lol Jul 03 12:36:49 and #poky channel Jul 03 12:37:03 and the handbook it's really god Jul 03 12:37:18 And what is it supposed to do ? Jul 03 12:37:37 Looks built on eclipse Jul 03 12:37:38 it's an OE distro Jul 03 12:37:45 no, anjuta Jul 03 12:37:52 like angstrom Jul 03 12:38:00 Don't know either one Jul 03 12:38:00 but the dev cicle is easy Jul 03 12:38:09 it has support for neo1973 Jul 03 12:38:15 Oh by the way Jul 03 12:38:20 Hi, i am getting this error while building openmoko: /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr is not 0;when i tried sudo echo >/proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr it saya permission denied . Jul 03 12:38:23 and i suppouse that someone give support for FreeRunner Jul 03 12:38:25 Is it possible to build fso with MACHINE="om-gta02" ? Jul 03 12:38:26 how to solve this? Jul 03 12:38:43 i supouse Jul 03 12:38:45 jitu3485: do sudo bash Jul 03 12:38:52 and then the echo Jul 03 12:39:54 or in your ubuntu or debian distro /etc/sysctl.conf change the mmap_min_addr Jul 03 12:40:20 in order to don't have to do it every machine reboot Jul 03 12:40:55 methril: does it run on windows ? (I'm at work... and yes, I do hate that) Jul 03 12:41:55 Ainulindale: free vmware server runs Ubuntu nicely on windows ... Jul 03 12:42:15 I'm low on RAM :-/ Jul 03 12:42:41 then stop doing your work Jul 03 12:42:54 and run a live CD Jul 03 12:43:07 stupid question: is there a nethack version on openmoko yet? Jul 03 12:43:09 methril, Wander_w , now it is working fine on my ubuntu thanks,but i also have maemo scratchbox on my system that needs mmap_min_addr=4096 , how to cope with that? Jul 03 12:43:31 rwhitby: It doesn't answer my question and unfortunately isn't possible Jul 03 12:43:43 i don't think so Jul 03 12:43:45 If I try to plug on the network on linux, I can't log in the AD domain Jul 03 12:44:05 ugh!! allways the same in mixed networks Jul 03 12:44:05 And then can't access anything Jul 03 12:44:14 i have the same problem in the office (here) Jul 03 12:44:27 Ainulindale: guess you're out of luck then Jul 03 12:44:41 ssh into your home linux server Jul 03 12:44:44 rwhitby: I could launch vnc on my own computer at home Jul 03 12:44:47 that's what I do Jul 03 12:44:49 they use Windows and AD, but i access with samba and login with user/pass to the shared folders Jul 03 12:44:58 Wander_w: I'm connected from my home computer right now Jul 03 12:45:07 or get a hosted linux account at dreamhost or somewhere and build it there. Jul 03 12:45:19 i'm going to be lucky Jul 03 12:45:33 Not easy to work with but hey Jul 03 12:45:58 Is there a tutorial/howto explaining how to integrate poky for OM/OE development ? Jul 03 12:45:59 the admin of my office is going to give me a Quad core server :) to build distros (we are working with OE, or trying to) Jul 03 12:46:13 not jet Jul 03 12:46:32 Aaargh :-) Jul 03 12:46:45 but in essence it's the same Jul 03 12:46:50 they are using OE Jul 03 12:46:56 The same ? Jul 03 12:46:59 The same as what ? Jul 03 12:47:04 but poky works in MacOSX and OM still not Jul 03 12:47:05 The same absence of documentation/howto ? :-) Jul 03 12:47:16 both (poky & OM) use OE Jul 03 12:47:27 no, poky is well documented Jul 03 12:47:30 I must have misunderstood Jul 03 12:47:34 I thought poky was an IDE Jul 03 12:47:41 the poky handbook give me a lot of advices about OE stuff Jul 03 12:47:54 poky is a OE distro Jul 03 12:48:08 but has a plugin integration with the Anjuta IDE Jul 03 12:48:19 it's an easy to use dev IDE Jul 03 12:48:26 <`pwgen`> i think poky i a commercial company useing oe and bitbake to build the customer related things Jul 03 12:48:40 What's the difference between poky and OE then ? Jul 03 12:48:53 <`pwgen`> documentaion / support Jul 03 12:49:24 poky has less configs and packages that OE Jul 03 12:49:37 I think you misunderstood my need then methril Jul 03 12:49:47 Suppose I manage to build correctly fso Jul 03 12:49:56 <`pwgen`> o-hand is the company, but poky is opensource Jul 03 12:49:56 which is totally hypothetical right now :-) Jul 03 12:50:08 How should I begin to work on applications ? Jul 03 12:50:13 Is there some kind of best practices ? Jul 03 12:50:40 <`pwgen`> ah Jul 03 12:51:05 uf!! Jul 03 12:51:11 try your best? :) Jul 03 12:51:29 Is that a best practice ? =) Jul 03 12:51:36 hehehe Jul 03 12:51:39 Because I still don't know at all where to start from Jul 03 12:51:51 Imagining I have my FSO image up to date Jul 03 12:51:55 use the toolchain for simple apps Jul 03 12:51:55 <`pwgen`> in the openembedded wiki are hints starting your ouwn packages ( 1. start with the local overlay ) Jul 03 12:52:10 And imagining I would like to build something, I don't know where to begin from Jul 03 12:52:19 OE and bbfiles Jul 03 12:52:35 Yep `pwgen`, but what about the logic of deployment ? Running within the emulator ? Primitives and such ? Jul 03 12:52:38 you have to make a bb file and compile (if you want to integrate it with the distro) Jul 03 12:53:01 so bitbake mysoftware and re-run my qemu, and voila ? Jul 03 12:53:13 read the Poky handbook, for me give me a lot of OE things that i don't really understand very clever Jul 03 12:53:22 for qemu Jul 03 12:53:44 <`pwgen`> follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Customizing_the_OpenMoko_Distribution for build system Jul 03 12:53:47 hey any know if and when more freerunner 900mhz models will be avail through openmoko.com? Jul 03 12:53:57 you could use toolchain or bitbake or whathever, make a opkg and install in the image Jul 03 12:54:06 xcalie: Im afraid the answer is when they are available Jul 03 12:54:18 ok thanks Jul 03 12:55:11 <`pwgen`> : building your own OE includes an opkg repo you had to distribute it via webserver, the you will be able install/update on your emulated device Jul 03 12:56:35 http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner - already soldout? :| Jul 03 12:59:32 danker: never had any in the first place Jul 03 12:59:52 Only the 900 Danker Jul 03 13:00:16 try the resellers Jul 03 13:00:20 usa is 850mhz, right? i can never remember Jul 03 13:00:23 Yes Jul 03 13:00:24 kdubois Jul 03 13:00:40 See http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner Jul 03 13:00:44 on the right of the page Jul 03 13:00:47 ok cool. yay for the store being open! Jul 03 13:00:48 for what one you'd need Jul 03 13:02:26 And do you know if OM has already shipped phones to the resellers ? Jul 03 13:03:58 Then why bearstech is so slooooow :-) Jul 03 13:04:23 lukhas: I've almost no nails left ! Help me, give me my shot of high-tech gadget :-) Jul 03 13:05:25 uchIphoneuch Jul 03 13:06:18 There seem to be 473 freerunners left. Jul 03 13:06:29 If you enter 1000 in the quantity box it goes to that anyway. Jul 03 13:06:57 maybe there is just an arbitrary timed limit for safety Jul 03 13:07:03 so in any 1 hr Jul 03 13:07:04 or 1 day Jul 03 13:07:13 Maybe. Jul 03 13:07:17 or whatever interval it will only qllow orders fo N to avoid "bugs" Jul 03 13:07:18 :) Jul 03 13:07:21 Who knows - I'm not saying that's real. Jul 03 13:07:30 (and limti resets at the end of said period) Jul 03 13:07:31 :) Jul 03 13:08:56 oh wow, are the european ones already sold out? Jul 03 13:09:18 kdubois: I don't think it's been confirmed there were ever any for sale though teh OM store. Jul 03 13:10:29 kdubois, i think they are mostly sold in the european stores Jul 03 13:10:36 NOTE: Running task 1361 of 3836 <= /me sighs Jul 03 13:10:49 until they get them in the openmoko store Jul 03 13:12:20 i brought mine from germany so i dont have to pay import tax and so on Jul 03 13:14:17 SpeedEvil: maybe you're right Jul 03 13:14:47 HauDyrArb: did you get it yet? or are you still waiting for it to arrive? Jul 03 13:14:49 * SpeedEvil is always right! ALWAYS! Jul 03 13:14:52 :) Jul 03 13:14:58 * SpeedEvil has no clue really. Jul 03 13:15:10 lol Jul 03 13:15:16 it has been shipped so i am waiting Jul 03 13:15:49 when was it shipped? Jul 03 13:16:10 yesterday Jul 03 13:16:22 exciting Jul 03 13:16:25 * kdubois 's order 1214 just went through :) Jul 03 13:16:32 I want miiiiiine Jul 03 13:16:39 kdubois: US store? Jul 03 13:16:46 yep Jul 03 13:17:07 i ordered it on the 27/6 Jul 03 13:17:27 at least as far as i know Jul 03 13:18:25 466 available. (same caveats) Jul 03 13:19:41 A little under 1/minute if that's accurate then. Jul 03 13:20:21 Hang on. Jul 03 13:20:36 I thought the FR battery was supposed to be >1200mAh Jul 03 13:20:46 Oh Jul 03 13:20:58 They've apparantly used the wrong battery for the pics. Jul 03 13:42:59 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: is there some doku. what dbus calls the ophoned/deviced/ provides ( its wierd grepping the sources ) Jul 03 13:43:34 OTAPI is documented on the fso wiki Jul 03 13:43:47 docs for the others are on the way Jul 03 13:44:05 hi Jul 03 13:45:09 <`pwgen`> the wiki does not contain any docs about the dbus/methods parameters and functions Jul 03 13:46:40 <`pwgen`> for sample: querstiopn , what is the second parameter used in the org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.Initiate method, ( answer; should be voice ) Jul 03 13:47:14 <`pwgen`> s/querstiopn/question/ Jul 03 13:47:14 `pwgen` meant: for sample: question , what is the second parameter used in the org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.Initiate method, ( answer; should be voice ) Jul 03 13:50:13 Woo Hoo!!! Just ordered my FR on the online store!!! Jul 03 13:50:34 Now for the longest wait in history (I'm SOOO stoked!) Jul 03 13:50:39 welcome to the club Jul 03 13:51:40 I've been watching and waiting for over a year and a half for this phone. It's got everything I want (well, a camera wouldn't be a bad addition, but I can deal)... WiFi, Bluetooth, aGPS, LINUX!!! Jul 03 13:52:09 yaye Jul 03 13:52:24 I've got two iPhone users in my office that just don't understand why I would want one...sigh...they didn't understand why I voted for Ron Paul either. Jul 03 13:53:08 I've been waiting too when it was say... december: but now I'm broke, too bad... I'll wait for september (Can I has some money for a neo, boss?) Jul 03 13:53:15 (stupid question coming) is it shipping from thailand, or wherever its made? Jul 03 13:53:59 not a stupid question...how long do I have to wait now to get that BEAUTIFUL piece of art into my hands in Texas? Jul 03 13:54:51 Does anyone know if the order Id's started at Zero or at 1000? Jul 03 13:55:12 YEEEE HAAAA Jul 03 13:55:27 they run in fibronachi squence :-) Jul 03 13:55:35 nice! Jul 03 13:55:38 42 Jul 03 13:56:31 i have a problem: Jul 03 13:56:33 i want to install a new flash image on my new openmoko freerunner, but there seems to be a bug concerning uboot; i pressed first the aux button, then the power button and then i released the aux button, uboot showed up as expected and when i selected "Set console to USB" uboot told me to press the aux button in case i want to quit. After around 5 seconds it quited without my interference and it went back to the main menu without Jul 03 13:56:34 displaying any errormessage (usb cable that was shipped with the freerunner was plugged in all the time) Jul 03 13:56:36 tested on a gentoo and a sidux box Jul 03 13:56:37 does anyone know if it is my fault or if it is a software failure or something like that? Jul 03 13:58:02 I was so excited this morning...I was expecting to wait another couple of hours until it was July 4th in Taiwan (I figured out already that the webserver was probably going to hit July 4th before I did ). I went to show the phone I was going to buy to a coworker and saw that the "Store" button was activated. I think I made record time back to my cubicle. ;-) Jul 03 14:06:25 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r034127ca3696 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc-helpers.c rtc-helpers.vapi rtc.vala): rtc: add SetWakeupTime. Jul 03 14:06:36 so, anyone know the best (largest) microSD card to use in my new FR? Jul 03 14:07:32 Xaos: you might find some info here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Jul 03 14:07:57 if you try a card not listed it would be nice to add it to the list for others to see :-) Jul 03 14:10:07 I'm not that brave...although I am tempted to get the Sandisk 8GB...If I am reading the table correctly, it should work under normal usage, but has not been tested under uboot? Jul 03 14:17:45 how is uboot abnormal usage? Jul 03 14:20:48 I meant during normal usage as a phone. uboot is mainly for debugging and flashing if I understand correctly (not that it's abnormal for people like us, granted) Jul 03 14:23:14 well the table was originally for 1973, and the FR has another SD card controller. Shouldn't make much of a difference, 'course, it all pretty much "should" work ;P Jul 03 14:23:21 Is it possible to buy 900 version from online store? Jul 03 14:24:18 Danker: no Jul 03 14:24:32 Will it be possible? Jul 03 14:24:45 I hope so Jul 03 14:25:33 Danker, the 900 version is sold in europe Jul 03 14:25:47 F**k.... Jul 03 14:26:01 I live in jungle :D Jul 03 14:26:05 Almost... Jul 03 14:26:21 then ask Tarzan to get you one Jul 03 14:26:21 I hope it will be available in online store.... Jul 03 14:26:24 x) Jul 03 14:26:48 Danker: buy it online from a reseller in EU Jul 03 14:27:12 I will give a try Jul 03 14:27:16 Thanks ;) Jul 03 14:27:55 'course, they're pretty booked right now Jul 03 14:28:54 Danker, www.handheld-linux.com takes credit card Jul 03 14:29:09 so does trisoft.de Jul 03 14:29:18 ?? huh Jul 03 14:31:19 HauDyrArb: Quite expensive there.... Jul 03 14:31:35 yes but you get the full pack Jul 03 14:31:46 with the stylus and so on Jul 03 14:32:06 For 400$ I get full pack too Jul 03 14:32:13 with bag and headset? Jul 03 14:32:48 No... Jul 03 14:32:53 I think so at least.... Jul 03 14:33:20 hah! Jul 03 14:33:27 maby its more expensive but i trust them more than pulster that only recieves bank transfer Jul 03 14:33:45 or paypal Jul 03 14:34:01 But it costs $150 more..... Jul 03 14:34:12 You've an included garanty with paypal Jul 03 14:34:16 trisoft took 350€. with bag and headset. i paid with my visa Jul 03 14:34:35 te_acrid: approximatively the same thing for me at bearstech (france) Jul 03 14:34:45 (328 euros) Jul 03 14:34:46 te_acrid: Dollar or Euro? Jul 03 14:34:53 euro Jul 03 14:35:08 on top of that the danish law gives me better security than bank transfer Jul 03 14:37:19 if i brught it from USA i would have to pay around 550$ (150$ import tax) Jul 03 14:37:35 En dat lukt? Jul 03 14:38:34 and wait a month for the stupid tax collectors to finish Jul 03 14:38:39 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r68cad3e69972 10/tools/cli-framework: tools: catch up with renamed subsystem Jul 03 14:38:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra87144317e95 10/tools/cli-framework: tools: fix more bus names in cli-framework Jul 03 14:38:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rb41a3926ae9c 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): ogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.Network.GetCallForwarding() Jul 03 14:40:35 anyway 360 Euro is still cheap for a phone with those specs Jul 03 14:40:48 heh, holy crap that's expensive. Jul 03 14:41:08 HauDyrArb: a bit expensive for a phone with this level of implementation :-p Jul 03 14:41:31 not in my book Jul 03 14:42:01 Ainulindale :p Jul 03 14:42:13 Invoice Total 368.63 EUR Jul 03 14:44:15 HauDyrArb: problem is, for me, it's seriously not easy to be able to understand how to develop on the platform Jul 03 14:45:04 Ainulindale, you will learn Jul 03 14:46:14 btw: is there a hint how to get a qt-app build for OM? Jul 03 14:46:45 the good thing is that there is many levels to build on Bootloader, kernel, FSO framework, GUI(GTK, QT ....) Jul 03 14:47:17 just find that place that fits your capabilitys Jul 03 14:48:08 and you can always document and test Jul 03 14:49:05 HauDyrArb: The problem is, as I was saying Jul 03 14:49:21 There's no documentation on how to start, where to start, with tool X or Y Jul 03 14:49:30 (As I see it) Jul 03 14:49:43 So I'm rummaging around trying to find some scrapes of information Jul 03 14:49:48 Mainly bothering people here :-) Jul 03 14:49:58 how about start with hello world on the command line? Jul 03 14:50:12 good idea Jul 03 14:50:47 zedstar_: That's my goal, but in order to start with a hello world, you first have to build a development environment Jul 03 14:50:58 and when you learn somthing remember to write it in the wiki :-) Jul 03 14:50:58 Ainulindale: It's pretty much the same as for any other linux box, whether you're using GTK+, EFL or QT. Jul 03 14:51:00 And to know where you have to put things to work with qemu Jul 03 14:51:13 HauDyrArb: I already did part of that to build FSO Jul 03 14:51:21 abraxa_: yep, but, as an example Jul 03 14:51:29 If I build a script to do some random thing Jul 03 14:51:38 Displaying naked pictures of monkey for example Jul 03 14:51:39 +s Jul 03 14:51:51 Ainulindale: have you even looked at the wiki? Jul 03 14:51:52 How am I supposed to test it ? Where do I have to put it ? Jul 03 14:51:56 Yep, yep Jul 03 14:52:00 I have scrapes of information Jul 03 14:52:04 there's documentation there, people have been developing on qemu for ages Jul 03 14:52:07 Mostly guessed trying to understand what to do Jul 03 14:52:13 ainulindale: have you built a comand line c program on a normal linux box? Jul 03 14:52:24 And what I meant by that was : it's not clear for the newcomer Jul 03 14:52:32 Ainulindale: Check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain - that should get you started. Jul 03 14:52:32 zedstar_: Of course Jul 03 14:52:53 Ainulindale, and we are totaly greatfull for that Jul 03 14:52:54 The problem isn't to start developing with an image running Jul 03 14:53:06 But as I said Jul 03 14:53:07 ainulindale: ok well it is no different...instead of your normal gcc you call the cross gcc Jul 03 14:53:17 Just in order to be able to access my running qemu with ssh Jul 03 14:53:21 It wasn't so obvious Jul 03 14:53:27 There's tons of new tools I never used Jul 03 14:53:30 (qemu for starters) Jul 03 14:54:08 What I think would be great for people like me (stupid people that is), would be a nice howto step by step on "how to start developing for GTA0x" Jul 03 14:54:09 and that principle is the same for any embedded development, be it the iphone or whatever Jul 03 14:54:32 That is : a step by step procedure to build qemu, build an image, making a script using dbus and then deploying it on the image Jul 03 14:54:44 Right now I'm not even sure on how to deploy it without doing a package, for example Jul 03 14:54:55 (or simply scp-ing the sources) Jul 03 14:55:01 Man, I can't wait to finish this app! Jul 03 14:55:09 I think I may even write a wiki page about it :p Jul 03 14:55:14 abraxa_: (checking, checking, will read :-) ) Jul 03 14:55:41 abraxa_: but just so you know Jul 03 14:55:44 First time I see this page Jul 03 14:55:54 The research function is really crappy :-/ Jul 03 14:56:43 Ainulindale: Yeah, the wiki needs a better how-to page indeed. Jul 03 14:57:05 What I found hard is also the fact that there's a whole lot of things to know which are not explicit Jul 03 14:57:11 First, namely FSO/ASU/OM Jul 03 14:57:23 that part is confusing i can see Jul 03 14:57:57 Or else, the fact that fso has to be checked out in a different repository than OM/ASU Jul 03 14:58:11 It's just hard to be able to find that easily somewhere Jul 03 14:58:17 (that's why I'm here mainly :-) ) Jul 03 14:58:31 Each difficulty is a tiny difficulty Jul 03 14:58:36 But as there are lots of them Jul 03 14:58:50 Makes each step harder towards the pleasure of developing for OM Jul 03 14:59:04 (And man, how I intend to feel that pleasure ! :-p ) Jul 03 14:59:30 a really up-to-date book on this kind of development would be great Jul 03 14:59:38 Yep Jul 03 14:59:38 but it is moving some much Jul 03 14:59:48 If I had to compare it to something Jul 03 14:59:54 It's as if I was starting a new J2EE project Jul 03 15:00:00 I know which tools to use Jul 03 15:00:04 Which structure to build Jul 03 15:00:10 How to deploy what I built Jul 03 15:00:36 And considering any steps of the same process on OM, it's still a bit confuse for me Jul 03 15:00:52 s/confuse/confusing/ Jul 03 15:00:52 Ainulindale meant: And considering any steps of the same process on OM, it's still a bit confusing for me Jul 03 15:01:07 Besides the fact that I'm french, tired, with a crappy way to speak english Jul 03 15:01:47 merde Jul 03 15:01:48 Well, my boss forced me to go and drink coffee, so be back later :-) Jul 03 15:02:01 did u manage to build a toolchain with mokomakefile? Jul 03 15:02:11 zedstar_: I built a full working image Jul 03 15:02:18 And right now I'm building fso using bitbake Jul 03 15:02:21 Ainulindale: have you had any exposure to Symbian? Jul 03 15:02:32 cozub: Not at all. Jul 03 15:02:42 what i would next then is locate the compiler and try a simple compile of hello world Jul 03 15:02:45 I'm only about to go through what U're going through with OM... but I think nothing could beat symbian in this regard :)) Jul 03 15:03:00 I once used J2ME and .NET for mobile, that's all the extent of my experience with mobile devices Jul 03 15:03:05 dont use the high level tools at first and just get a feel for what is involved Jul 03 15:03:20 zedstar_: that's my goal Jul 03 15:03:24 see ya gais Jul 03 15:03:30 zedstar_: I use gentoo precisely for that purpose Jul 03 15:03:34 Knowing and understanding Jul 03 15:03:59 ainulindale well i could step u through a simple compile of hello world sometime Jul 03 15:04:02 But hey I have to go for ten minutes Jul 03 15:04:08 I would really like that Jul 03 15:04:13 See you in ten minutes then :-) Jul 03 15:06:35 I'm looking at grabbing a freerunner, the only phone available is GSM 850, but on gsmworld it says my service is GSM 1900 are they compatible? Jul 03 15:06:57 sontek: yes Jul 03 15:06:59 or should I wait for the 900 to be in stock? Jul 03 15:07:11 Whats the difference between the services? Jul 03 15:07:11 it's 850/1800/1900 or 900/1800/1900 Jul 03 15:07:12 the 850 also supports 1800 and 1900 bands Jul 03 15:07:53 also, 1900 is typically used in a region along with 850, so it's probably what you want for the near future too Jul 03 15:09:34 why didn't openmoko go with a quad-band gsm? Jul 03 15:09:43 and just have 1 model Jul 03 15:09:58 hardware issues Jul 03 15:10:22 ...like? Jul 03 15:10:34 a severe mixup that got cleared up all too late Jul 03 15:10:34 it's technically a quad band unit, but something with the other hardware, or the SoC, made them disable one of the bands Jul 03 15:10:50 no, it's a triband unit, just a quad chip Jul 03 15:10:58 well, that's what I meant :P Jul 03 15:11:00 oh, did they run out of GPIO's? Jul 03 15:11:03 oh Jul 03 15:12:24 ...so is GTA03 going to be a quad band? Jul 03 15:12:57 no info. Hopefully. They're going to have to redo at least some stuff anyway Jul 03 15:13:33 is it known when they plan to release GTA03? Jul 03 15:13:47 on the ml they said gta03 will have the same gsm chip -> no quadband Jul 03 15:14:07 anyone else had a problem in the U.S. with buying a single unit? i get an error from the hi trust gateway :/ Jul 03 15:14:09 haha, I just looked at my desk, with an array of freerunners plugged in and connected to various hubs :P Jul 03 15:14:13 What a mess :) Jul 03 15:14:14 Tanuva: mjr said the chip is allready a quad band Jul 03 15:14:19 Tanuva, I'm pretty sure they didn't. Because the GSM chip being the same wouldn't restrict that. Jul 03 15:14:24 swc|666: I just ordered mine without a problem about 10 minutes ago Jul 03 15:14:28 What is the use of a quad band cell phone anyway ? Jul 03 15:14:39 Ainulindale: travelling a lot? Jul 03 15:14:41 ainulindale so u wanna do hello world now? Jul 03 15:14:45 Ainulindale: one model for the entire world Jul 03 15:14:48 mjr: hmm... maybe I misunderstood something? I dont believe so although its possible.. Jul 03 15:14:59 Ainulindale, for people who travel a lot. Mind you, triband can get you decent coverage in cities generally, but not if you're in foreign countryside for instance. Jul 03 15:15:09 Oh, I didn't know that mjr Jul 03 15:15:20 zedstar_: right now I think I'll leave in a quarter Jul 03 15:15:25 I'm supposed to go to golf Jul 03 15:15:31 (foreign as in on the other side of the NA border) Jul 03 15:15:33 Practice a little with some friends Jul 03 15:15:36 ainulindale it take one second :) Jul 03 15:15:38 golf? are you a manager? Jul 03 15:15:42 QUAD DAMAGE Jul 03 15:15:54 Wander_w: Manager as in my company ? Jul 03 15:15:56 Tanuva, you did, or got bad info. The statement doesn't make sense on its face. Jul 03 15:16:08 zedstar_: Right now I'm in the building process of fso up-to-date Jul 03 15:16:15 Ainulindale: yes? Jul 03 15:16:19 So I think it would be a better idea to start with a fresh image Jul 03 15:16:20 ainulindale u just need to locate your cross gcc mine is in /home/john/moko/build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin Jul 03 15:16:31 Wander_w: Depends on the project Jul 03 15:16:37 But mainly no Jul 03 15:16:39 ainulindale so find that......run gcc on the hello.c and u done :) Jul 03 15:16:39 (the earlier word on the street was also that the gta03 would have a different gsm chip, but I don't know that, it was just something Raster alluded to) Jul 03 15:16:41 oh Jul 03 15:17:05 zedstar_: yep but then, how will I be able to launch it from qemu ? Jul 03 15:17:19 And will the binary be directly usable on the freerunner ? Jul 03 15:17:38 ainulindale well that is a separate issue.....u can run it directly and it will run Jul 03 15:17:40 damnit... this sucks Jul 03 15:17:53 directly on the host system you mean ? Jul 03 15:17:59 ainulindale i dont use qemu...i just scp that binary to phone and can run it Jul 03 15:18:00 gives me an error to roder :S Jul 03 15:18:01 Directly on the FR Jul 03 15:18:04 order* Jul 03 15:18:16 zedstar_: Yep but I'd prefer to use it on the emulated image first Jul 03 15:18:22 Ainulindale: Hmm, if you start up qemu, can you ssh into it? Jul 03 15:18:25 In order to prevent some potential errors Jul 03 15:18:33 Depends on which image Jul 03 15:18:49 errors in a hello world program... some programmer you are :P Jul 03 15:18:49 I can't ssh to `pwgen`'s image because I can't boot from SD and don't know the root password :-p Jul 03 15:18:58 ainulindale well somebody can help u with qemu i never use it.....but i just showed u how simple it was to compile an ARM binary of hello world Jul 03 15:18:59 Ainulindale: Then I think that would be the way to get it onto the FR Jul 03 15:19:03 But on my previously built OM image, I could do that so I suppose I could have scp the binary Jul 03 15:19:04 (the virtual FR) Jul 03 15:19:12 But it seems as a lenghty process to me Jul 03 15:19:19 Isn't there something easier ? Jul 03 15:19:28 If you set up keys it's about as easy as it can get Jul 03 15:19:30 Ainulindale: automate it with scripts Jul 03 15:19:54 There is probably some way to mount the qemu flash drive, but I dunno how Jul 03 15:19:54 compile_and_upload_and_run.sh or someting Jul 03 15:20:01 I never play with the emulator Jul 03 15:20:10 Yep, I could do that, but I was trying to guess if there was a way to directly access rootfs from the host system Jul 03 15:20:30 i lot of us dont use the emulator...cos a) u can run on normal desktop a lot of code b) we have a device Jul 03 15:20:34 Don't ask my why I ask myself that question, I just do that :-p Jul 03 15:20:37 you might set up a NFS or samba server on the freerunner? Jul 03 15:20:41 Ainulindale: You can also just gcc it on the emulator Jul 03 15:20:49 Yep, I could do that Jul 03 15:20:56 If you install gcc. You might need to give the emulator a big sd card to do that Jul 03 15:21:05 Last solution I thought about was to build a git repository on host and get it from the emulated image Jul 03 15:21:19 openmoko-devel-image already have support for nfs Jul 03 15:21:35 diego_at_work: client, server or both? Jul 03 15:21:38 NOTE: Running task 2665 of 3836 <= yay Jul 03 15:21:51 server if i remember well Jul 03 15:22:10 that's pretty sweet Jul 03 15:22:14 You see, as I said before, as some people like me never had a real experience with mobile devices, it's kind of awkward to find the right developing process Jul 03 15:22:20 (btw nfs server is almost kernel stuff) Jul 03 15:22:24 It doesn't seem right to me to scp a binary Jul 03 15:22:27 Because I'm not used to that Jul 03 15:22:52 Ainulindale, that's the "plain" way Jul 03 15:23:08 And it's typically that kind of information I think would be useful to newcomers like me, trying to toy with linux on a mobile Jul 03 15:23:09 the correct way would be, create a feed, with a http server Jul 03 15:23:17 a git feed ? Jul 03 15:23:28 no a ipkg feed ^^ Jul 03 15:23:37 Ah, sounds better Jul 03 15:23:57 diego_at_work -get_documentation *create*feed*ipkg* Jul 03 15:24:12 ( :-) ) Jul 03 15:25:43 i've done it, configuring an http server on my pc, and pointing ipkg to the ip of my pc Jul 03 15:26:01 (something in /etc/ipkg/feed, if i remember well) Jul 03 15:26:52 and do you know if there's any kind of documentation on the subject ? Jul 03 15:27:04 Because if you think it's the proper way to do that, there should be some, no ? Jul 03 15:27:18 You keep using this word "should" Jul 03 15:27:28 I'm not sure it means anything in this context Jul 03 15:27:37 i.e. regarding documentation of open source projects Jul 03 15:27:40 also there is no proper way Jul 03 15:27:53 just get on writing some code first ;) Jul 03 15:28:04 Ainulindale: hey, how is it going? Jul 03 15:28:06 I'm saying "should" as in "I think it would be a good thing for users like Ainulindale in order to understand what to do without doing crap" :-) Jul 03 15:28:36 goodwill: fine, thanks, building FSO slowly :-) Jul 03 15:28:36 MokoMakefile already do 90% of the work (almost) right Jul 03 15:28:57 Yep but it doesn't really help you to understand the process, does it ? Jul 03 15:29:44 You can obviously guess what it does looking at the Makefile, but if, like me, you don't know what does bitbake or how to use qemu... Jul 03 15:30:17 But hey, nevermind I'll try what you told me earlier tonight if I'm sober enough :-) Jul 03 15:30:25 (and if my image is working) Jul 03 15:30:46 So thanks everyone for the information :-) Jul 03 15:30:57 I've got to go, so see you later. Jul 03 15:31:27 Ainulindale: yeah I tried a couple of time already, it seems to fail Jul 03 15:33:16 just curious as to the procedure for joining a group buy Jul 03 15:33:30 I've added myself to the appropriate list in the wiki, anything else? Jul 03 15:33:46 Well... Jul 03 15:33:53 Every group buy is different. Jul 03 15:34:16 Email/SMS/fax/telex/semaphore/yodel at the leader to check status. Jul 03 15:35:14 alright, thanks Jul 03 15:37:55 damn! how did it get sold out?! Jul 03 15:38:01 anyone seen this? uses geoclue http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS8827997755.html Jul 03 15:40:30 Where are the US GSM 900 phones? Jul 03 15:40:33 TAsn: What's sold out where? Jul 03 15:40:34 TAsn: there are questions if any 900MHz models were ever available in the stoer Jul 03 15:40:42 900 in the official store :) Jul 03 15:40:42 emacsen: you want 850 for the US Jul 03 15:40:43 Those are typically bought in the EU... Jul 03 15:41:01 wurp2, well isn't it out in the eu as well? Jul 03 15:41:18 I suspect they haven't shipped any 900s to the openmoko store yet, since they want to sell most of those in the EU Jul 03 15:41:30 SpeedEvil, but sometimes I go to Europe/UK Jul 03 15:41:30 TAsn: That would be even more reason not to ship them to North Am, IMO Jul 03 15:41:42 well, sometimes I go to France/UK Jul 03 15:41:43 emacsen: get two! Jul 03 15:41:46 emacsen: :) Jul 03 15:41:57 SpeedEvil: Freerunner: Collect Em All? Jul 03 15:41:58 emacsen: Don't you usually stay in cities when you travel? Jul 03 15:41:59 I dont get it... aparently openmoko's payment gateway is broken(?) Jul 03 15:42:02 wurp2, grr, but even with the shipment Jul 03 15:42:04 wurp, yes Jul 03 15:42:08 In that case the 1800 should be enough Jul 03 15:42:08 emacsen: I'm unsure if there is a UK net that only uses 1800/1900 Jul 03 15:42:10 although im closer to the uk than to the us Jul 03 15:42:19 it's cheaper from official store. Jul 03 15:42:35 SpeedEvil: emacsen lives on the east coast like I do and is using T-Mo Jul 03 15:42:44 unknown_lamer: I was meaning in the UK Jul 03 15:43:00 SpeedEvil: I was referring back to the needing 850 for the US :-) Jul 03 15:43:07 unknown_lamer: yeah - or conversely a network in the US does not use 850MHz Jul 03 15:43:20 unknown_lamer: where is this pack you speak of? Jul 03 15:43:35 emacsen: the extra pack? on the webshop main page Jul 03 15:43:39 i really ought to get one already ;) well, more waiting for me ;( Jul 03 15:43:44 TAsn: from what I've understood, the european stores give you a two year warranty (EU laws) while the official store gives you a two week warranty Jul 03 15:43:54 bahhh I have to wait for a 900MHz neo now Jul 03 15:44:05 Vegar, nice info :) Jul 03 15:44:07 ah, next to the board Jul 03 15:44:09 yes... Jul 03 15:44:11 well i guess that worths the price. Jul 03 15:44:26 TAsn: you should ask the store first, I'm just quoting the MLs Jul 03 15:45:08 <_ferric> can't spend $400 on '02 :-( Jul 03 15:45:15 Vegar, btw, if i include shipment uk is for more pricy ;\ Jul 03 15:45:20 <_ferric> i did get my '01 to make calls last night tho Jul 03 15:45:21 <_ferric> :D Jul 03 15:45:45 TAsn: I think pulster.de is cheaper Jul 03 15:46:01 <_ferric> unknown_lamer: TMob uses 900MhZ band? Jul 03 15:46:03 hey, anyone knows that how could get 900MHz one of freerunner now? Jul 03 15:46:05 <_ferric> MHz Jul 03 15:46:10 _ferric: 1900 Jul 03 15:46:33 _ferric: with a few roaming partners in the midwest/west using 850 Jul 03 15:47:07 Vegar, they don't use https though ;\ Jul 03 15:47:12 <_ferric> oh, so the 850 OM would work, yes? Jul 03 15:47:22 okay, why is "Second Day Air Saver" $20 more than Second Day Air? Jul 03 15:47:31 _ferric: yes Jul 03 15:47:34 where are they being shipped from? Jul 03 15:48:09 Fremont, California Jul 03 15:48:17 So why is "Saver" more expensive? Jul 03 15:48:28 and I have no clue :P Jul 03 15:48:34 <_ferric> cool. Jul 03 15:48:43 I just chose the UPS Second Day Air Jul 03 15:48:46 <_ferric> where on the EC are you, btw? Jul 03 15:48:58 EC? Jul 03 15:49:19 Vegar, pulster is reasonable. Jul 03 15:49:22 emfox: www.openmoko.com Jul 03 15:49:27 do they provide 2 year warrenty? Jul 03 15:49:56 TAsn: send them an email and ask Jul 03 15:49:57 TAsn: Not unless your country dictates it Jul 03 15:50:09 14 day for single order, 28 days for 10 pack Jul 03 15:50:11 <_ferric> nuclear_eclipse: east coast... sorry was talking to unknown_lamer Jul 03 15:50:15 wurp2: what if my country dictates three years? Jul 03 15:50:20 afaik there is no other warranty unless it's dictated by the country Jul 03 15:50:20 fuck. I have no idea if it worked. Trusted visa... Jul 03 15:50:26 did you freak out or did the store.! Jul 03 15:50:32 And then only if you buy it legitemately in your country :-) Jul 03 15:50:36 *shakes his fist angrily* Jul 03 15:50:56 (Or so I assume, on that last one) Jul 03 15:51:19 wurp2: thanks. but they said the 900MHz ones were sold out .... Jul 03 15:52:10 emfox, who said? Jul 03 15:52:34 There is someone in another channel claiming that t-mobile (US) uses 900MHz. Jul 03 15:52:38 Are they incorrect? Jul 03 15:52:46 1900 Jul 03 15:52:47 SpeedEvil, i think they are Jul 03 15:52:55 just check the list in the om site. Jul 03 15:52:57 lamer thinks so Jul 03 15:53:07 who uses 850 not including us? Jul 03 15:53:09 HauDyr: The site Jul 03 15:53:11 I have T-Mobile and they ue 1900 around here Jul 03 15:53:28 emfox: 900 is for places other than North America Jul 03 15:53:45 emfox: You should buy those phones from an EU vendor Jul 03 15:54:14 _ferric: NC/MD Jul 03 15:54:31 emfox: Both models of FreeRunner support 1800 & 1900 bands, the only difference is if it gives you "countryside" coverage in North America (850) or the rest of the world (900) Jul 03 15:54:48 SpeedEvil: 1900 not 900; 900 was in use until recently for analog stuff in the US until recently Jul 03 15:54:54 wurp2: I'm Asian and here we use 900 Jul 03 15:55:11 emfox: Then you should buy from one of the EU sites, as far as I know Jul 03 15:55:21 emfox: trisoft.de is the only one I can think of offhand Jul 03 15:55:44 SpeedEvil: and actually may still be in use for analog because of stupid government users not leaving the channel quickly enough (T-Mo is having serious issues with 3G rollout because they bought 800 or something and the government users are about a year late leaving! so they have towers sitting there ... wasting money) Jul 03 15:56:25 emfox: See http://www.openmoko.com/distributors-asia-india.html and http://www.openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html Jul 03 15:57:13 <_ferric> unknown_lamer: ah Jul 03 15:57:40 <_ferric> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_(USA) <- says 1900 for TMo Jul 03 15:59:18 wurp2: thanks. Jul 03 16:00:02 <_ferric> unknown_lamer: that blows Jul 03 16:00:49 _ferric: ? Jul 03 16:00:56 _ferric: lack of t-mo 3G or living in NC/MD? Jul 03 16:01:13 <_ferric> yea Jul 03 16:01:18 <_ferric> lack of t-mo 3G Jul 03 16:01:26 <_ferric> nothing against NC/MD :) Jul 03 16:03:45 Hello, I just would like to ask -- are there any schematics for neo/freerunner available ? Jul 03 16:04:17 <_ferric> mmp: for the logic board or the outside casing or what? Jul 03 16:04:50 _ferric: as does T-Mobiles domestic roaming partners all operate on the GSM 1900 band. from t-mobiles site. Looks like hw was confiused. Jul 03 16:04:51 _ferric: logic board Jul 03 16:06:10 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: looks like it. Jul 03 16:06:30 <_ferric> mmp: I know they were put up, somewhere, check the wiki Jul 03 16:06:49 SpeedEvil: no some partners are 850 nowadays mostly in the midwest Jul 03 16:07:00 _ferric: I'm not sure, I read about case CAD files being available, but from schematics I only know about debug board schematics Jul 03 16:07:02 Good morning, Speedy. Jul 03 16:07:06 SpeedEvil: but really what is more useful -- the barren wasteland that is the US midwest or all of Europe Jul 03 16:07:13 oh, and hello ferric :P Jul 03 16:07:18 Still at it, I see ;) Jul 03 16:08:11 <_newbie3> mmp: i don't think you get schematics of the logic board unless under NDA... But i was told that the hi res images might be close enough although i doubt it. Jul 03 16:09:01 _newbie3: I'm afraid that won't do the job, as neo's/freerunner's PCB probably has multiple layers.. Jul 03 16:09:30 <_ferric> Dave: morning! I go to sleep, and the damn shop opens. Jul 03 16:09:39 :D Jul 03 16:10:03 <_ferric> where are you located, Dave? Jul 03 16:11:38 NJ, US Jul 03 16:12:09 <_ferric> oy, next state over! Jul 03 16:12:11 <_ferric> <- NY Jul 03 16:12:18 ferric, where in NY? Jul 03 16:12:22 <_ferric> manhattan Jul 03 16:12:28 ,_ Rochester Jul 03 16:12:31 Ferric, I was in the city yesterday. Jul 03 16:12:31 <_ferric> nice! Jul 03 16:12:34 Haha rochester Jul 03 16:12:46 I'm not going back upstate again so soon Jul 03 16:12:52 <_ferric> is there a user group in these parts? Jul 03 16:12:56 yeah, it's not so great up here :P Jul 03 16:13:10 Gotta like those dropped calls :p Jul 03 16:14:40 <_ferric> heh Jul 03 16:14:56 * _ferric goes to find out how to get his hands on ASU now Jul 03 16:16:37 :D Jul 03 16:16:41 Finally Jul 03 16:16:54 <_ferric> Dave: what are you running? Jul 03 16:17:13 <_ferric> as far as I understand, the FSO sources are in a git repo somewhere, and ASU is not readily available? Jul 03 16:19:49 Sure it is. Jul 03 16:19:54 Which build version do you want? Jul 03 16:20:23 <_ferric> how many are there? :) Jul 03 16:20:42 It's confusing to me, since there are several different repository listings for that software; that, and one appears to be a link to another. Jul 03 16:20:50 Ferric, many. Jul 03 16:21:00 Ferric, there's also snapshot builds of it. Jul 03 16:21:05 <_ferric> oh wow Jul 03 16:21:11 <_ferric> and ASU runs Qtopia, yes? Jul 03 16:21:23 or you could go with the original shipment build, which was some crummy thing built back in april. Jul 03 16:21:25 <_ferric> but ASU will be made to run on top of FSO, as well? Jul 03 16:21:29 Fuck Qtopia. Jul 03 16:21:41 <_ferric> heh! Jul 03 16:22:09 Man, all I can tell you is what I'm currently running; and I can tell you that the qtopia builds blow. Jul 03 16:22:18 (which I am not running anymore) Jul 03 16:22:27 not unless they put a dual-core chip in these things. Jul 03 16:22:41 oh and finish writing the qtopia apps that come with it Jul 03 16:23:01 <_ferric> lol Jul 03 16:23:05 <_ferric> BUT THEY LOOK PURTY! Jul 03 16:23:44 openmoko: 03laforge * r4505 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: Jul 03 16:23:44 openmoko: * fix segfault with generic machine plugin (by Jamal Selim) Jul 03 16:23:44 openmoko: the generic machine plugin doesn't have initsettings, therefore we cannot Jul 03 16:23:44 openmoko: blindly assume it exists. Jul 03 16:23:57 anyone knows if pulster already shipped freerunners? Jul 03 16:27:15 Ferric, THEY SO LAGGY! Jul 03 16:27:44 they don't have any content to them, and 90% of the functionality has yet to be added. Jul 03 16:28:11 <_ferric> ah Jul 03 16:28:14 So perhaps in a month, if I somehow develop a vested interest, I'll try one of them again. Jul 03 16:28:16 <_ferric> and they can't make phone calls. Jul 03 16:28:20 Haha Jul 03 16:28:38 Well, I never tried that, as I got my SIM cards after I reflashed to openmoko-devel Jul 03 16:29:20 <_ferric> and what is openmoko-devel Jul 03 16:29:28 <_ferric> that monstrosity from 2007.2? Jul 03 16:30:20 Ferric, no, a build from last week or so. :P Jul 03 16:30:31 or some week earlier in june Jul 03 16:31:21 Joerg, are you around? Jul 03 16:32:45 That discharged cell that I fully recharged last night, has run itself to the same point, in less than two hours, and now is in a similar state; I doubt it needs to be conditioned, as LiON does not. Jul 03 16:33:19 what sort of cell? Jul 03 16:33:32 Your Order ID is: 1416 Jul 03 16:33:33 woo Jul 03 16:34:02 <_ferric> gmaxwell: 'gratz! Jul 03 16:34:12 <_ferric> Dave: using mokomakefile? Jul 03 16:35:01 <_ferric> yo summatusmentis - i remember you! Jul 03 16:35:08 Ferric, were they built using mokomakefile? Jul 03 16:35:36 <_ferric> Dave: yes, the releases you're running Jul 03 16:35:43 <_ferric> Dave: or did you get a snapshot and just flash that? Jul 03 16:36:15 I flashed a snapshot on most of my devices. Jul 03 16:36:43 <_ferric> haha Jul 03 16:36:46 Until a friend and I here in the lab finally decided to get our own build box up and running so we could roll our own. Jul 03 16:36:47 <_ferric> HOW MANY do you have?!! Jul 03 16:36:52 Ferric, many :) Jul 03 16:37:00 <_ferric> you have a lab?!! Jul 03 16:37:03 Yep Jul 03 16:37:21 <_ferric> haha. don't tell me you work in the 'Defence Sector' :P Jul 03 16:37:45 hahaha, yeah right, like the DoD would really want a piece of this :P Jul 03 16:37:57 <_ferric> that's pretty cool. Jul 03 16:37:58 it barely makes phonecalls, let alone kills terrorists... Jul 03 16:38:03 :D Jul 03 16:38:07 Dave = NSA Jul 03 16:38:08 <_ferric> dude? Jul 03 16:38:11 * doc|work eyes Dave Jul 03 16:38:13 <_ferric> phone calls kill terrorists. Jul 03 16:38:13 doc, sssh! Jul 03 16:38:18 * doc|work points! Jul 03 16:38:19 Don't tell everyone! Jul 03 16:38:34 <_ferric> I think I'll get my buildbox up this weekend so I can start playing with whatever kernel the FSO image runs. Jul 03 16:38:39 Ferric, haha, depends on your data transmission rates :) Jul 03 16:39:44 Does anyone know *which* fso images people have been using to get > 20 hours of suspend time, with reliable wake-on-gsm? Jul 03 16:39:55 wurp2: on GTA02? Jul 03 16:40:28 does anyone know how i can edit the Power_management_menu? Jul 03 16:40:41 SpeedEvil: On 01 Jul 03 16:40:54 HdR: When you find out, tell me plz :-) Jul 03 16:40:56 wurp2: wur: ah Jul 03 16:41:08 wurp2: ;) i want the geht the wifi button work ;) Jul 03 16:41:10 _ferric: you need the USB-nunchucks. Jul 03 16:41:12 Dave: Are you working for a FR reseller? Jul 03 16:41:21 wurp2: ;) i want to get the wifi button work ;) -.- Jul 03 16:41:47 <_ferric> Honestly, it's not that hard to sort out which Jul 03 16:41:47 <_ferric> patches are debug, which are functional, and which ones we just need to Jul 03 16:41:47 <_ferric> accept as they are because their ugliness reflects the horrors of the Jul 03 16:41:48 <_ferric> hardware beneath. Jul 03 16:41:51 <_ferric> mwester++ Jul 03 16:42:09 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: where do i get those damn things Jul 03 16:42:14 HdR: Actually, if you find out how, can you put it on the wiki? Jul 03 16:42:46 wurp, nope. Jul 03 16:43:02 wurp2: it works right know ;) i'm not sure where i should add the "howto" Jul 03 16:43:12 haha, the gta02 uptime's always amuse me. Jul 03 16:43:50 Speedevil, nunchucks, you say? ;) Jul 03 16:43:53 HdR: Even if you just create a new page with an appropriate title, someone will clean it up & move the info if need be Jul 03 16:43:55 <_ferric> i guess the gta01 is doomed. :) Jul 03 16:45:08 Can anyone tell me if the freerunner's TRS connector's pins are in standardized order? Namely L R AUX GND from top to bottom? Or is the assignment different from that? Jul 03 16:46:01 The details are somewhere on the wiki Jul 03 16:46:44 speedevil: Yeah, tried that. But I didn't find anything. I'll try again. Do you have any keywords? Jul 03 16:46:49 Umm. Jul 03 16:46:56 headset connector Jul 03 16:47:02 Will try that. Jul 03 16:47:04 Thanks. Jul 03 16:47:20 wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware Jul 03 16:48:17 Ah, ok. And it hasn't changed for the freerunner, does it? Jul 03 16:48:35 Don't think so. Jul 03 16:48:48 Nope Jul 03 16:51:40 wurp2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan quick & dirty ;) (very ugly^^) Jul 03 16:54:00 HdR: Thanks, I put a link to it in the FR FAQ Jul 03 16:54:15 HdR: What *I* was actually looking for is how to edit the power menu ;-) Jul 03 16:54:29 wurp2: i edit it, if i get it working with power menu Jul 03 16:54:37 wurp2: ah ok ^^ Jul 03 16:54:37 HdR: OK, thx Jul 03 16:54:54 But getting wlan going has been a FAQ, so I'm very glad to have it in the wiki Jul 03 16:54:57 wurp2: the wifi on/off in power menu is useless atm i guess? Jul 03 16:55:03 HdR: No idea Jul 03 16:55:09 I've never seen a FR in person ;-) Jul 03 16:55:14 I'm a gta01 owner Jul 03 16:55:24 An essential FR add-on. Jul 03 16:55:31 i'm a freerunner owner since yesterday ;) Jul 03 16:55:33 http://www.usbwine.co/ Jul 03 16:55:37 http://www.usbwine.com/ Jul 03 16:55:39 haha yeah, that is terribly dirty :p Jul 03 16:56:14 It'd be nice if someone were to correct a lot of the English on the wiki. Jul 03 16:56:22 Dave: That sounds like you're volunteering to clean it up Jul 03 16:56:38 Hey, I wouldn't mind, as I go along, if I had access. Jul 03 16:56:43 * SpeedEvil has done way too much on the wiki already. Jul 03 16:56:45 Dave: Everyone has access Jul 03 16:56:48 Just create an account Jul 03 16:56:58 I go through about 10 wiki pages a day thoroughly, as I read more and more of the horrifying details :) Jul 03 16:57:04 Wurp, ah. Jul 03 16:57:15 I liked it better when they had the edit link whether you were logged in or not, and linked to "create an account" from there Jul 03 16:57:39 I've gone through all the pages in the wiki once. Jul 03 16:57:42 Now it's not obvious that you just need to sign up to get the edit link Jul 03 16:57:45 Not doing that again free. Jul 03 16:58:29 Wurp, apparently so. Jul 03 16:58:47 Speedevil, haha, yes, it's quite taxing to one's sanity. Jul 03 17:00:02 I'm getting mixed signals as to what bands the 850 FreeRunner supports. Is it tri-band or not? Jul 03 17:00:10 tri-yes Jul 03 17:00:17 850/1900/1800 Jul 03 17:00:25 fabulous, ordering now :P Jul 03 17:02:28 * retracile just ordered an 850 + DBoard, and now anxiously awaits delivery. :D Jul 03 17:02:37 :) Jul 03 17:03:39 ... now I just have to carve out time to work on it and get the software to a level I'm happy with. ;) Jul 03 17:04:19 I think this is the first linux based product I'll be putting on my linux credit card :P Jul 03 17:04:36 <_ferric> your credit card is running linux? Jul 03 17:04:45 Linux Credit Card? Jul 03 17:04:46 wurp2: i added a sample config Jul 03 17:04:53 thelinuxfund,org Jul 03 17:05:03 thelinuxfund.org even Jul 03 17:05:16 Wow! Jul 03 17:05:18 Is anyone on who's interested in trying to put together a hybrid fso/2007.2/asu release with stable calling (using the old gtk dialer & sms for now, backed by fso), with support for all the nifty toolkits asu is enabling? Jul 03 17:05:40 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r44fc8502e675 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (7 files): ogpsd: Commit first version. Not quite working yet Jul 03 17:05:43 From what I've heard, all it would take is building a gsmd workalike that is backed by fso, which would take the place of phonekit Jul 03 17:06:10 `pwgen`: pong! (we seem to be the victims of poor timezone alignment -- I'll b about, on and off, for the next 12 hours or so...) Jul 03 17:06:15 I am pretty time restrained, but I have heard several people sound as if they had an interest in somethinglike this (Aiundale, among others) Jul 03 17:06:59 * _ferric waves to mwester. Jul 03 17:07:10 * wurp2 hears crickets chirping... Jul 03 17:07:18 <_ferric> wurp2: I'm in Jul 03 17:07:29 <_ferric> wurp2: but, why do you want to replace phonekit? Jul 03 17:07:37 _ferric: 'cause it's not reliable Jul 03 17:07:44 _ferric: And FSO is The Way of the Future Jul 03 17:07:53 <_ferric> fso runs phonekit and its the only thing that has let me make a call, ever. Jul 03 17:07:58 _ferric: And 'cause fso supports gprs Jul 03 17:08:05 <_ferric> ack. maybe i'm wrong, then. Jul 03 17:08:08 _ferric: fso runs ophoned Jul 03 17:08:23 wurp2, sounds cool :) Jul 03 17:08:39 I'm pretty sure phonekit is what backed the gtk phone app.. I'm actually fuzzy on where it fits in the picture Jul 03 17:08:52 <_ferric> are ophoned/phonekit/gsmd at the same level of abstraction? Jul 03 17:08:55 OK, I'll set up a wiki page for us to get organized Jul 03 17:09:02 <_ferric> wurp2: awesome. Jul 03 17:09:10 * _ferric is going to get organized. Jul 03 17:09:22 _ferric: Sorry, no idea... I know gsmd provides the interface to the old phone app to submit commands Jul 03 17:09:39 _ferric: I thought by opening a server port to accept commands Jul 03 17:10:03 _ferric: ophoned manages the gsm and provides a dbus api to talk to it Jul 03 17:10:28 _ferric: As well as doing all comms through a muxed connection, so you can have gprs active and still recieve calls Jul 03 17:10:36 <_ferric> nice. Jul 03 17:10:47 Although getting a call closes your gprs connection, at least you don't lose calls while browsing or whatever Jul 03 17:11:07 And I think I've pretty much just told you everything I know about it, maybe more ;-) Jul 03 17:11:15 <_ferric> well that happens everywhere (on closed source phones) as well Jul 03 17:11:21 <_ferric> haha Jul 03 17:11:45 I dunno where phonekit fits in the picture, except I'm almost certain it's on the old 2007.2 (GTK+) side of things Jul 03 17:12:35 <_ferric> I only looked at 2007.2 like, a year ago, and it used gsmd Jul 03 17:12:36 <_ferric> i think Jul 03 17:12:40 <_ferric> (very poorly) Jul 03 17:13:13 <_ferric> that is, it used gsmd very poorly, not that i think very poorly. Jul 03 17:16:40 <_ferric> mwester: ping? Jul 03 17:17:09 _ferric: Do you have a gta01 or FR? Jul 03 17:17:43 <_ferric> gta01 Jul 03 17:19:59 _ferric: And you weren't running 2007.2 three months ago? Jul 03 17:20:12 I think 2007.2 is the latest GTK release... Jul 03 17:20:46 <_ferric> I was running 2007.2, but not using it Jul 03 17:20:49 <_ferric> last night I flashed to FSO Jul 03 17:20:53 <_ferric> and made my first phonecall Jul 03 17:20:57 <_ferric> that's my OM history. Jul 03 17:23:39 _ferric: for me 2007.2 worked very well today (phone, sms) Jul 03 17:24:53 does anyone know how to crosscompie a qt-app? Jul 03 17:24:58 _ferric: pong Jul 03 17:27:41 _ferric: Congratulations :-) Jul 03 17:27:59 TAsn: Was that you volunteering to help out some with building a hybrid release? Jul 03 17:28:08 Ainulindale: ping Jul 03 17:29:47 Counting 'Deep Throat' as one 1-2G file forex, not 37 million copies totalling 3.7*10^16 bytes. Jul 03 17:29:54 Err - mischan. Jul 03 17:30:08 I was talking about the washington tapes? Jul 03 17:30:25 * SpeedEvil sighs at the failed recovery. Jul 03 17:30:48 heh Jul 03 17:31:06 I was wondering in another channel about the total amount of data worldwide. Jul 03 17:34:11 wurp2, no can do, first of all, i don't have a moko, and the emulation is slow as hell here. second of all, im truly short at time. im not even sure how much time i will have for dev after i get one :\\ Jul 03 17:36:30 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r14bfab4ad986 10/framework/subsystems/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Jul 03 17:36:30 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.DisableCallForwarding( reason, class ) -> () Jul 03 17:36:30 freesmartphone.org: opreferencesd: fix typo Jul 03 17:36:37 anyone know where the phones are shipping from in the US? Jul 03 17:37:02 Fremont, CA Jul 03 17:37:07 awesome, thanks Jul 03 17:37:09 ground it is ;) Jul 03 17:38:00 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rc79a288e650c 10/odeviced/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Jul 03 17:38:00 freesmartphone.org: * Add LED plugin exposing org.freesmartphone.Device.LED interface Jul 03 17:38:00 freesmartphone.org: * helpers.vala: add cleanup_dbus_path for replacing : and - with _ Jul 03 17:39:55 ok...need some help. Got qemu emulator working (kinda) on my Ubuntu 7.04 box. I'd like to get it working as a FR emulator, but am not sure how to continue...anyone want to help a new FR guy? Jul 03 17:40:01 TAsn: np Jul 03 17:40:21 _ferric, et al: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 03 17:40:55 wurp2: is it possible, that the powermenu is defined in source code? i just found this link: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/changeset/4324 Jul 03 17:41:24 HdR: Very possible :-( Jul 03 17:41:40 Hi Trust Sucks Jul 03 17:41:43 hrhr very nice .. :/ Jul 03 17:44:30 I don't know why Openmoko would choose a payment gateway for the store that isn't compatible with several major US banks Jul 03 17:45:22 I don't know why they just don't jam them all on ebay. Jul 03 17:47:13 how much is the shipping for a single phone? Jul 03 17:47:27 to Canada, that is :p Jul 03 17:47:27 is there a better way to emulate the FR other than qemu? I'm using the mokomakefile, but when the phone boots up, 1) it's using the 1973 hw, and 2) it is non-responsive Jul 03 17:47:42 Pesky satellites. Jul 03 17:47:50 UPS ground is about $8 to Texas Jul 03 17:48:29 swc|666: For now, they probably are gonna sell more than they have available, so they don't care if they lose some sales (for now) Jul 03 17:48:42 (^^ more of a joke than serious commentary ^^) Jul 03 17:49:28 hmm Jul 03 17:49:39 mm 14.50 to Vancouver :p Jul 03 17:49:50 how long do you think before they sell out? :o Jul 03 17:50:01 I'm wondering whether or not to wait for my group sale to go through ( we need 4 more) Jul 03 17:50:17 what are the order numbers up to now? mine was in the 1200's this morning Jul 03 17:51:31 kelvie: well, the 900 is already sold out Jul 03 17:51:33 Xaos: I note now that under 400 are available since I noticed earlier that when you entered 1000 in the quantity field it went to 473 Jul 03 17:51:41 My order was 1412 Jul 03 17:51:52 Qwell: Was the 900 ever in the om store? Jul 03 17:51:59 dunno Jul 03 17:52:16 900 wasn't in there as of about 3.5 hours ago Jul 03 17:52:26 benlake: how long ago did you order? Jul 03 17:52:32 1 hour Jul 03 17:52:38 less than. Jul 03 17:52:48 Qwell: ah.. I should just order then Jul 03 17:52:54 Xaos: it's not been on for a long time Jul 03 17:53:02 doubtful I can get 4 more people before it sells out Jul 03 17:53:15 so they sold about 200 in about 3 hours Jul 03 17:53:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * rae73c62f3656 10/ (setup.py src/illume.pyx): add distutils support Jul 03 17:53:32 which means about 6 hours to go before they sell out at that rate Jul 03 17:53:41 when's the next batch going to be readY/ Jul 03 17:53:42 anyone know? Jul 03 17:53:46 So when is the 3G coming around? :P I bought this one for moral support Jul 03 17:54:12 arg, this is frustrating. Keep getting error from Hi Trust Gateway :( Jul 03 17:54:23 benlake: as soon as you can find a chipset manufacturer who'll supply one with open specs :) Jul 03 17:54:54 although I don't think that's the problem for the gsm chip as the fr's isn't open either Jul 03 17:54:54 ARgh Jul 03 17:54:55 does anyone here do development using qemu for the freerunner? Jul 03 17:56:07 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r367cc93c0453 10/setup.py: fix datadir path Jul 03 17:56:27 I'm #1479.. ordered just now Jul 03 17:56:37 benlake: No one knows... gta03 (if it even exists) may have EDGE, definitely no 3G Jul 03 17:56:53 EDGE would be nice Jul 03 17:56:54 kelvie_: what kind of card did you use to order? and did you get an error from the hi trust gateway? Jul 03 17:56:55 does the current stack support wifi with wpa? couldn't find anything on the wiki.. Jul 03 17:56:55 benlake: gta04 would be the first candidate to have 3G, from the buzz on irc/the mailing lists Jul 03 17:57:02 cydgin: yes Jul 03 17:57:04 nullpuppy: I used a visa Jul 03 17:57:10 hrm, what the hell Jul 03 17:57:12 no weird errors, it went all prety soomth Jul 03 17:57:13 smooth* Jul 03 17:57:15 kelvie: so, they have sold 260 in 4.5 hours Jul 03 17:57:17 hmm Jul 03 17:57:19 SpeedEvil: any link? Jul 03 17:57:20 on firefox3 Jul 03 17:57:25 on x86_64 Jul 03 17:57:35 cydgin: someone mentioned a page in the wiki in the past few hours Jul 03 17:57:48 Xaos: you're perhaps also counting accessory sets too Jul 03 17:58:01 did you get an email with confirmation? Jul 03 17:58:14 so about 1 phone sold every minute (yeah that's possible, but I'd bet most accessory kits are sold with phones...maybe?) Jul 03 17:58:21 GSM 900 Sold Out! :( Jul 03 17:58:32 SpeedEvil: hmm strange i can't anything on the wiki :( Jul 03 17:58:36 anyone know how long before there'll be a restock? Jul 03 17:58:44 LottoKim: I don't think 900 was being sold in OM store Jul 03 17:58:48 LottoKim: Check resellers Jul 03 17:58:51 and more importantly, how long before they've broken even? :) Jul 03 17:59:01 (900 not sold in OM store yet, anyway) Jul 03 17:59:04 SpeedEvil: s/can't/can't find/ :P Jul 03 17:59:58 wurp2: thanks Jul 03 18:01:00 just checked the UPS map and it'll take 4 days to ship from Fremont, CA to TX. How likely are they to ship all the phones on Monday? I'd love to play with my new FR all weekend long Jul 03 18:01:21 pulster seem to expect a second delivery July 25 Jul 03 18:01:51 yay, got confirmation that pulster is shipping my finnish group order tomorrow :) Jul 03 18:01:58 congrats Jul 03 18:02:10 'Cart Error Jul 03 18:02:10 We only have 388 item(s) of Neo FreeRunner - GSM 850 left. Jul 03 18:02:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * rf15a700565e0 10/setup.py: setup.py: add basic error checking Jul 03 18:02:17 SpeedEvil: noooo! Jul 03 18:02:20 damn it Jul 03 18:02:23 SpeedEvil: there's 44 of the 10 packs left as well it seems Jul 03 18:02:25 or are they the same? Jul 03 18:02:30 my group is never going to have its money together in time :( Jul 03 18:02:39 kelvie_: I think they are the same. Jul 03 18:02:40 I ducked out of my group already :p Jul 03 18:02:46 we had 6 people Jul 03 18:02:46 SpeedEvil: hmm found this http://labs.o-hand.com/2008/02/05/openmoko-wifi-driver/ Jul 03 18:03:02 time to subscribe to the mailing lists... Jul 03 18:04:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan Jul 03 18:04:43 woot.. Jul 03 18:04:49 man, what's up with the gps positioning and fixes. Jul 03 18:04:53 * cydgin hugs SpeedEvil.. Jul 03 18:05:12 and now to order :) Jul 03 18:08:14 kelvie_: where are you? Jul 03 18:08:36 doc|work: Vancouver Jul 03 18:09:06 shit I just realized this is shipping via UPS Jul 03 18:09:13 they will charge brokerage fees Jul 03 18:09:15 kelvie_: me too Jul 03 18:09:38 which sometimes comes out to be half hte price of whatever you're ordering Jul 03 18:09:42 kelvie_: I'm organising group one, we've had one drop out and two are beginning to look dodgy so will let you know what happens Jul 03 18:10:00 ah Jul 03 18:10:03 I've already ordered Jul 03 18:10:07 ah, ok Jul 03 18:10:09 our group just had another drop out Jul 03 18:10:12 :/ Jul 03 18:10:15 oh oh me me me! Jul 03 18:10:21 I'm in group 2 Jul 03 18:10:22 Ben (who organized our group) asked your group and you guys said you're full :P Jul 03 18:10:24 trying to get a bunch of people to chip in on a large shipment up there, doc? Jul 03 18:10:31 (I was the 6th) Jul 03 18:10:35 but I've already ordered mine :( Jul 03 18:10:39 Dave: yeah, had 10, one dropped out but have replaced them Jul 03 18:10:42 saving money on shipping? Jul 03 18:10:48 duties, etc. Jul 03 18:10:50 shipping is only 14 dollars :P Jul 03 18:10:53 kelvie_: yeah, know anything about brokerage fees? Jul 03 18:10:54 I don't think there's duties on phones Jul 03 18:10:56 doc|work: I'm interested if there's an opening Jul 03 18:10:58 in my dealings with UPS Jul 03 18:11:05 it is insane (when coming from the US) Jul 03 18:11:06 kelvie_: shipping, yes, but then there'd bond and brokerage :/ Jul 03 18:11:12 :D Jul 03 18:11:19 brokerage sometimes is GST+PST + about 50 dollars Jul 03 18:11:25 o_O Jul 03 18:11:27 I don't know how they calculate it Jul 03 18:11:29 it's ridiculous Jul 03 18:11:33 Sounds like :D Jul 03 18:11:38 it can get pretty creazy Jul 03 18:11:39 it doubles the price of some items sometimes Jul 03 18:11:46 macdonalder: sure, but add yourself to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#British_Columbia Jul 03 18:11:48 brokerage fees are defined as "the maximum a customer is willing to pay" Jul 03 18:12:03 macdonalder: add yourself to the second group and I'll pick off whatever's left if they drop out Jul 03 18:12:03 doc|work: I have, I'm in group 2... but I can move myself Jul 03 18:12:10 (I'm Chris) ;) Jul 03 18:12:15 macdonalder: no, not yet, not until they confirm dropping out :) Jul 03 18:12:24 ok, then it stays as-is Jul 03 18:12:25 ah, ok Jul 03 18:12:37 will remember your name Jul 03 18:12:39 45.25 Jul 03 18:12:43 I wonder if I can change my shipping method Jul 03 18:12:44 much obliged Jul 03 18:12:51 Qwell: hah Jul 03 18:13:09 are you rallying the troops, doc? Jul 03 18:13:16 really though, anyone know if there's a way around these brokerage fees? Jul 03 18:13:16 I just tried running qemu with the aid of mokomakefile, and wound up with four buttons that do not respond. Is there a better working image I should try? Jul 03 18:13:31 doc|work: yes Jul 03 18:13:33 doc, ship to US customer and drive them across the border? :) Jul 03 18:13:34 use the more expensive shipping Jul 03 18:13:36 doc|work: kind of... Jul 03 18:13:38 haha yeah Jul 03 18:13:39 Dave: heh, something like that. Have money from 7 people, meeting another this evening. then waiting on bank transfers for another two Jul 03 18:13:43 anyone here in charge of the shop? Jul 03 18:13:46 ups expedited covers brokerage Jul 03 18:13:52 but it's more expensive Jul 03 18:14:06 see, assraped one way or assraped another Jul 03 18:14:10 pretty much Jul 03 18:14:27 Smuggling is the key! Jul 03 18:14:46 yeah, aside from declaring it as something it isn't, there isn't too too much you can do Jul 03 18:16:01 i tried to make a pruchase today, but I'm not sure if it went through. there was an error page, then I got an automated call from my CC to verify the purchase, and i haven't received a confirmation email yet Jul 03 18:16:21 purchase Jul 03 18:16:22 peepsalot: sounds like it's time to call.. Jul 03 18:16:22 wow I totally should have shipped it to my friend in Seattle Jul 03 18:17:35 hah Jul 03 18:17:46 i saw on the mailing list that other people had similar problems Jul 03 18:18:19 was wondering if anyone with got this error page, and still got a confirmation email? Jul 03 18:18:28 wasn't it UPS used the last time? Jul 03 18:18:33 LoneTech: I get the same issue with MokoMakefile...still looking for solution Jul 03 18:18:37 peepsalot: yeah, i got an error after the verified by visa thing - hi trust gateway error or somesuch.. is that what you got? Jul 03 18:18:58 I paid with my Visa card and it worked fine this morning Jul 03 18:19:52 nullpuppy: That is what I got too. I called up the card company and basically they said it was the fraud prevention kicking in. Jul 03 18:19:52 I kind of don't mind waiting, even for a second batch, at least then the software should have progressed Jul 03 18:20:20 tomjoad440: ok, what did you have to do to get passed it? just tell the cc company to auth it? Jul 03 18:20:25 nullpuppy: i had that too Jul 03 18:20:44 first time it failed, but i set up my secure payment thing with mastercard, and it went through Jul 03 18:20:51 nullpuppy: yeah Jul 03 18:21:01 when I open my FR, is it going to work? From the talk I'm wondering :P Jul 03 18:21:10 ok. guess i'll call chase then ;) Jul 03 18:21:25 nullpuppy: that's who my card is with too Jul 03 18:21:40 k Jul 03 18:21:43 thanks :) Jul 03 18:21:51 nullpuppy, yes, i got that error Jul 03 18:22:03 anyone knows how many units were sold already? Jul 03 18:23:32 huh, completely automated. awesome. Jul 03 18:23:37 is there a number to call for order information @ openmoko, i can't find such a thing on the site. maybe I will just email them Jul 03 18:23:39 from the numbers' I would guess there were about 1000 total for sale through the web store this morning Jul 03 18:23:52 Sounds plausible. Jul 03 18:23:57 hmm.. is it possible to change shipping methods (or cancel an order) at this point? Jul 03 18:24:11 peepsalot: give your cc company a call, number should be on the back of the cc Jul 03 18:24:14 benlake: Sort of Jul 03 18:24:16 I don't think i want to get nailed for $50-60 (minimum) in brokerage fees Jul 03 18:24:34 benlake: I hope you knew that the sw is in an alpha-ish state right now... Jul 03 18:24:34 kelvie_: seems you can clear the brokerage yourself Jul 03 18:24:42 kelvie_: looks like a painful process though Jul 03 18:24:58 doc|work: then I'd probably just pay the $50 bucks than take a day off work to clear it :P Jul 03 18:24:59 wurp2: I thought it was more beta Jul 03 18:25:08 benlake: pre-alpha Jul 03 18:25:11 Xaos: and i wonder about all the europeans... Jul 03 18:25:19 benlake: proof of concept at best at the moment. Jul 03 18:25:21 same amount in the first batch? Jul 03 18:25:35 benlake: It actually was more in a beta state 3 months ago, then they switched to developing the ASU Jul 03 18:25:42 SpeedEvil: I thought that's what the developer preview phones were for :P Jul 03 18:25:48 benlake: Anyway, hence http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 03 18:26:00 wurp2: yes. Jul 03 18:26:09 kelvie_: :/ Jul 03 18:26:09 wurp, sw? Jul 03 18:26:18 s/sw/software/ Jul 03 18:26:19 hehe ok, I not worried, but I did want this to replace my phone. Guess I'll be SIM switching Jul 03 18:26:25 Ah, yes :p Jul 03 18:26:32 s/tla/something I'm too lazy to type/ Jul 03 18:26:32 doc|work: oh well... I'll just bite the fee :p Jul 03 18:26:33 Agreed. Jul 03 18:26:40 arg Jul 03 18:26:43 kelvie_: *nod* Jul 03 18:26:55 kelvie_: it's a fucking scam though, and I hate paying for scams Jul 03 18:27:12 benlake: I use my gta01 as my primary phone, but I tolerate lost calls about once every 2-3 days & < 5 hours battery life Jul 03 18:27:43 is the gta02 better on the battery life at least? Jul 03 18:27:49 benlake: I believe if you're willing to just have phone & nothing else, you can get stable results from the FSO image, along with > 20 hours life using suspend & wake on gsm Jul 03 18:28:04 benlake: Yes, sounds like about 50% better Jul 03 18:28:09 er, 30% Jul 03 18:28:18 kelvie_: oh, http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html Jul 03 18:28:27 kelvie_: so if you ring UPS and prepay them it'll cost you less Jul 03 18:28:32 -2.7% Jul 03 18:28:35 so no data access? Jul 03 18:28:42 if I want battery :) Jul 03 18:29:37 doc|work: wait.. isn't that only for the bond fees? Jul 03 18:29:43 the brokerage feels still apply? Jul 03 18:29:46 what is the difference between the 850 and 900 variants of the FreeRunner? Jul 03 18:29:52 z3cka: 50 Jul 03 18:29:57 heh Jul 03 18:29:57 ha Jul 03 18:30:01 good one Jul 03 18:30:08 z3cka: which GSM bands they support Jul 03 18:30:10 the band the gsm chip runs Jul 03 18:30:13 ehehhe Jul 03 18:30:29 (why not just go with quad-band?) Jul 03 18:30:32 kelvie_: yeah, ups fronts the brokerage fee for you to pay canada customs when the package crosses Jul 03 18:30:40 thaks Jul 03 18:30:41 kelvie_: read the section following the "Bond Fees" header Jul 03 18:30:43 *thanks Jul 03 18:30:50 what the hell. still getting a gateway error Jul 03 18:31:00 kelvie_: so if you pay everything in advance, brokerage and taxes, you save 2.7% Jul 03 18:31:01 you can pay it in advance apparently and save the 2.7% they charge you to do that Jul 03 18:31:29 I don't think there's usually bond fees Jul 03 18:31:32 kelvie_: want to ring them and check that? might save yourself money by doing that too :) Jul 03 18:31:34 unless they're really special items Jul 03 18:31:46 kelvie_: there would be, given that they have to put up the gst Jul 03 18:31:53 and clear customs Jul 03 18:31:57 Qwell: hardware design is a bit harder plus it was designed as triband first Jul 03 18:32:15 kelvie_: unless you got it by one of the special methods where that's all paid for Jul 03 18:32:19 nullpuppy: Did you go through the whole order process again? cause that's what I did after I called chase Jul 03 18:32:20 Qwell: [quad band] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/November_6%2C_2007_Community_Update Jul 03 18:32:22 doc|work: sigh.. those bastards Jul 03 18:32:26 kelvie_: indeed Jul 03 18:32:35 I wonder if I'll get a tracking number of some sort first Jul 03 18:32:49 iirc, it's much the same on gta02, but some were adapted Jul 03 18:33:11 LoneTech: yes, some are 900, some are 850 Jul 03 18:33:13 I should ask them to switch to USPS on the ML Jul 03 18:33:18 Anyone in the US know if the FreeRunner will work with AT&T? Jul 03 18:33:21 kelvie_: please do Jul 03 18:33:21 tomjoad440: nearly. going to try one last time Jul 03 18:33:36 kelvie_: although that won't be easy either, given that you have to hook up to an api, open an account, etc Jul 03 18:33:46 kelvie_: but I'll reply saying I'd like it too Jul 03 18:34:33 oh well.. back to work for now :p Jul 03 18:35:55 same Jul 03 18:36:38 nullpuppy, my card company called me, and I told them it was a legit purchase. but I am just worried that I haven't gotten any email confirmation Jul 03 18:36:59 <_ferric> peepsalot: just wait. Jul 03 18:37:45 i called them, they fixed things so it should go through, but i still get this damn "error from the hi trust gateway" after the verfied by visa thingy Jul 03 18:40:11 ScaredyCat: Are you around? Jul 03 18:41:30 yikes Jul 03 18:41:57 i will wait for smoother seas Jul 03 18:43:46 'Cart Error Jul 03 18:43:46 We only have 369 item(s) of Neo FreeRunner - GSM 850 left. Jul 03 18:44:17 (not saying that means anything) Jul 03 18:44:26 wow, i really didn't expect it get sold out in 2 days! Jul 03 18:44:34 what the hell. Jul 03 18:44:47 * nullpuppy is getting irritated, can't complete transation :( Jul 03 18:44:48 I love how UPS saver is more expected than UPS expedited Jul 03 18:44:51 * doc|work stabs Jul 03 18:45:31 SpeedEvil, what are the plans to reproduce the phone? Jul 03 18:46:09 SpeedEvil: how many 10 packs? Jul 03 18:46:21 doc|home: I think 10 packs are made out of 1s Jul 03 18:46:35 SpeedEvil: argh Jul 03 18:46:43 zouzou: If you mean when will there be a new batch - who knows. Jul 03 18:46:57 they really didn't make that many, did they? :/ Jul 03 18:47:14 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: you're getting an FR? Jul 03 18:47:15 doc|work: Well, we were all bitching at them to get them in the store, already Jul 03 18:47:27 _ferric: I cannot at this time. Jul 03 18:47:32 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: me either. Jul 03 18:47:33 <_ferric> :-) Jul 03 18:47:37 wurp2: I never bitched :) Jul 03 18:47:59 _ferric: No cash - needed it for roof repairs, and I'm on a sharply limited budget) Jul 03 18:48:11 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: yup, you said. Jul 03 18:48:21 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: sorry to hear that, though. Jul 03 18:48:37 there we go. eff chase. thank you bofa Jul 03 18:48:41 order 1539 Jul 03 18:48:57 so about 100 an hour :P Jul 03 18:49:06 assuming each order only has one Jul 03 18:50:27 is the system completely automated? Jul 03 18:50:38 or would it be possible to change shipping method after the order went trhough :o Jul 03 18:51:34 I note that the number you can order - what the quantity goes to if you enter 1000 - is going down much slower than order numbers are going up. Jul 03 18:52:00 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: in english? Jul 03 18:52:36 Enter 1000 in the quantity box you want to order Jul 03 18:52:40 see what happens Jul 03 18:52:54 It goes down to 366 - now Jul 03 18:53:01 <_ferric> ahh Jul 03 18:53:07 <_ferric> so that's how many are left, technically. Jul 03 18:53:14 <_ferric> (in reality, there may be more or less :P) Jul 03 18:54:11 when did they go on sale? Jul 03 18:54:22 it said 388 when my order was done (order 1479) Jul 03 18:54:28 and if nullpuppy is at 1539... Jul 03 18:54:44 or maybe the order numbers don't match up Jul 03 18:54:44 It's how many the store software has been told they have. Jul 03 18:54:48 hi folks.. everytime i try to connect to my bluetooth keyboard (frogpad) hidd gives me a segmentation fault... any ideas? Jul 03 18:55:01 There may be 5000 unentered into the system Jul 03 18:55:52 nezza-_-: Did you do a software update? Jul 03 18:56:16 nezza-_-: I had that experience for a while. Eventually I did a new flash and it went away, never to return Jul 03 18:56:19 wurp2: yes, today. newest kernel & newest openmoko-devel image (gtk image, not the qtopia) Jul 03 18:56:20 i really do not think they expected it to be so popular :) Jul 03 18:56:33 was the same with gta01. ;\ Jul 03 18:56:35 iirc... Jul 03 18:56:48 wurp2: i will try the qtopia one.. Jul 03 18:56:57 <_ferric> Wiedi: you started a new page on the wiki? Jul 03 18:57:36 did the 900 mhz really sold out? Jul 03 18:57:37 <_ferric> eek. Jul 03 18:57:42 <_ferric> wurp2: that is Jul 03 18:57:58 mhh even alsamixer gives me segfaults Jul 03 18:58:28 excuse my ignorance, but isn't it possible to have a phone both 900/850 mhz? Jul 03 18:58:38 doc|work: http://www.thefinalcost.com/shipments/calculate/ -- according to this, the grand total will be $540 CAD Jul 03 18:58:39 <_ferric> mwester: do you mind putting your tree up on github? Jul 03 18:58:40 zouzou: yes..quad-band Jul 03 18:59:18 was it less expensive to make the freerunner uni-band? Jul 03 18:59:36 zouzou: The problem is that the calypso GSM chip need some special hardware filter for the different freq. So they produced two versions. Jul 03 18:59:46 kelvie_: there's no duty Jul 03 18:59:51 there is a gst Jul 03 18:59:52 oh, is it made in the US? Jul 03 19:00:00 or cause it's a cell phone? Jul 03 19:00:04 nope, but that's what I've been told Jul 03 19:00:06 zouzou, they're tri- Jul 03 19:00:06 igor321: No, it is not sold out. 900 is not available. Will come soon Jul 03 19:00:36 ah Jul 03 19:00:39 zouzou: 850 + 1800 + 1900 or 900 + 1800 + 1900 Jul 03 19:00:39 stefan_schmidt: thanks, that's what i thougt Jul 03 19:00:44 I should have gotten expedited :p Jul 03 19:00:47 comes here faster for the same price Jul 03 19:00:51 kelvie_: :/ Jul 03 19:00:57 * doc|work stabbity stab ups Jul 03 19:00:58 igor321: The description on the page it somewaht tricky. Jul 03 19:01:03 (or better wrong. :)) Jul 03 19:01:03 I should know better too Jul 03 19:01:07 this isn't the first time this has happened Jul 03 19:01:18 kelvie_: want to mail the list? :) Jul 03 19:01:24 usps>> ups Jul 03 19:01:28 stefan_schmidt: so it is not that limitting since it uses other freq available in the glob Jul 03 19:01:32 I should Jul 03 19:01:34 after work :p Jul 03 19:01:41 * doc|work nods Jul 03 19:01:44 zomg. for sale. Jul 03 19:01:48 doc|work: funny story though -- last time they charged it Jul 03 19:01:52 they spelled my name wrong Jul 03 19:01:52 anyways somenone should port quake to it and put it on youtube for marketing purposes Jul 03 19:01:54 so I didn't pay it :P Jul 03 19:01:57 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r39ed6906a00a 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/const.py gsm/error.py modems/abstract/mediator.py): ogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.EnableCallForwarding( reason, class, number, timeout ) -> () Jul 03 19:02:02 Jul 03 19:02:03 zouzou: exactly. Triband is quite good already. Jul 03 19:02:15 kelvie_: isn't it COD? Jul 03 19:02:19 stefan_schmidt, so when will the 900 be avil in the us store? Jul 03 19:02:21 almost got turned off, :P Jul 03 19:02:31 no US distributors Jul 03 19:02:32 zouzou: Of course quad band would be better, but no way we with the GSM chip in this design. Jul 03 19:02:35 doc|work: before (about 2 years ago), they'd send a bill from some other company Jul 03 19:02:43 PBB logistics was thte name I believe Jul 03 19:02:46 stefan_schmidt: the chip is quad band, the design isn;t Jul 03 19:02:47 TAsn: Sorry, no idea. It should be soon(TM) Jul 03 19:02:54 kelvie_: nice Jul 03 19:02:56 doc|work: I know. :) Jul 03 19:02:57 stefan_schmidt, lol. Jul 03 19:03:18 TAsn: I no longer work for OM, inc. So not the newest infos here. :) Jul 03 19:03:19 stefan_schmidt: pffft, ambiguous! :) Jul 03 19:03:24 stefan_schmidt, soon as in a week, a month or an OM? Jul 03 19:03:31 stefan_schmidt: great work to you all Jul 03 19:03:34 * donomo wonders if he could use a 10-pack :) Jul 03 19:03:41 stefan_schmidt, why? Jul 03 19:03:42 <_ferric> you can use it, of course Jul 03 19:03:42 _ferric: yes, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 03 19:03:47 donomo: a cluster! :) Jul 03 19:03:57 doc|work: heh Jul 03 19:03:58 TAsn: Personally I hope not even a week. But you know the track record of promises. ;) Jul 03 19:04:10 stefan_schmidt, i know... ;\ Jul 03 19:04:14 TAsn: Back to studies and searching for othe rinteresting jobs Jul 03 19:04:37 stefan_schmidt, :) Jul 03 19:05:11 is there somewhere i can check how much it will cost me to ship to various places in the world? Jul 03 19:05:22 i also wanna know that Jul 03 19:05:40 i have family all over europe and in the us. i wanna know where to order to in accordance to who comes first :) Jul 03 19:05:48 TAsn: It will tel you while ordering. Some fancy web API to the UPS website for calculating the shipping costs Jul 03 19:05:53 how can i get an idea if having 850mhz support is important in my area? Jul 03 19:05:53 (and price) Jul 03 19:06:09 donomo: Search for coverage maps. Jul 03 19:06:14 donomo: there's a link in the store Jul 03 19:06:21 donomo: Rule of thumb is 850 in US 900 in .eu Jul 03 19:06:28 stefan_schmidt, i know. but that will mean faking an order which is time consuming Jul 03 19:06:30 oh wait its the 900mhz that is sold out. the USA uses 850/.../... right? Jul 03 19:06:36 already did it once :) Jul 03 19:06:38 yes Jul 03 19:06:39 donomo: yep Jul 03 19:06:39 stefan_schmidt: yeah ok thanks Jul 03 19:06:42 doc|home, correct. Jul 03 19:06:45 TAsn: Sorry, I don't know another way Jul 03 19:06:46 ? Jul 03 19:06:54 stefan_schmidt, thanks :) Jul 03 19:07:03 There is - if any - vanishingly little 900MHz service in the USA Jul 03 19:07:06 stefan_schmidt, btw, i guess you own a moko, right? Jul 03 19:07:14 anyone here know how to setup qemu to emulate the FreeRunner instead of the 1973? Or is there a better channel for that? Jul 03 19:07:15 TAsn: 3 :) Jul 03 19:07:27 one 1973 and two freerunner Jul 03 19:07:27 stefan_schmidt, do you wanna know my shipping address? Jul 03 19:07:29 :) Jul 03 19:07:35 heh Jul 03 19:07:40 $406.53 shipped to portland oregon Jul 03 19:07:48 TAsn: All prototypes. You guys get better hw then me. Jul 03 19:07:53 <_ferric> donomo: nice! Jul 03 19:07:57 stefan_schmidt, oh. Jul 03 19:08:03 TAsn: Well one FR is a new one. Should be fine Jul 03 19:08:13 yay, order confirmation Jul 03 19:08:16 openmoko: 03zecke * re391626f56a4 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Start cleaning up by properly prefixing members Jul 03 19:08:16 openmoko: 03zecke * r0a0fb0f07fac 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Start removing unused functionality from the callscreen Jul 03 19:08:16 openmoko: 03zecke * rfabc5710d126 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Remove stuff we don't want. VideoWidget, Mouse LockScreen... Jul 03 19:08:17 openmoko: 03zecke * r9c4589ca77cf 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/callscreen.cpp: [callscreen] Cleanup the initializer list to make it more easy to add and remove stuff Jul 03 19:08:19 TAsn: The problem of getting fresh hw are the bugs in it. :) Jul 03 19:08:19 donomo, cool :) how did you check? Jul 03 19:08:20 openmoko: 03zecke * rac53ff483204 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Remove the #ifdefs as we will always use cell functionality Jul 03 19:08:21 <_ferric> nullpuppy: congrats. Jul 03 19:08:23 openmoko: 03zecke * r93cc3b89effa 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/callscreen.h: [callscreen] Remove more unused stuff Jul 03 19:08:26 openmoko: 03zecke * rd2d3902d211a 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Remove the manualLayout invocations Jul 03 19:08:29 openmoko: 03zecke * r986186d33917 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] It is flawed to make up items and add them to a weird layout Jul 03 19:08:32 openmoko: 03zecke * r82cc97a225fc 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Remove deadcode. It is in a public SCM nowadays no need to keep it around Jul 03 19:08:37 openmoko: 03zecke * r69a18460af2f 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Properly name the slot. We handle release of theme items here Jul 03 19:08:37 TAsn: by buying one. Jul 03 19:08:40 openmoko: 03zecke * r68b3623bfc3c 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/callscreen.cpp: [callscreen] Control the visibility of the dtmf digit entry with the theme file Jul 03 19:08:43 openmoko: 03zecke * r6f6dd8ade531 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [callscreen] Group the variables together by what they do Jul 03 19:08:44 stefan_schmidt, sure. i heard something about bugs in the old gsm firmware. Jul 03 19:08:48 openmoko: 03zecke * rfa20c15ec784 10/src/server/phone/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [callscreen] Move the theme handling into a separate class Jul 03 19:08:51 openmoko: 03zecke * rdd8684f676f9 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [callscreen] When toggling the keypad visibility the dtmf buttons cover the CellItemListView Jul 03 19:08:54 openmoko: 03zecke * r493ce46269c9 10/etc/themes/finxi/ (3 files): Revert "[callscreen] For the different views we will use different files" Jul 03 19:08:57 <_ferric> wurp2: LOL - I love the fact that you have another TLA in there. Jul 03 19:09:01 openmoko: 03zecke * r9f6800463b7f 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/callscreen.cpp: [callscreen] Avoid a crash, fixing the real issue is still to do Jul 03 19:09:03 donomo, congrats. Jul 03 19:09:23 TAsn: Well, firmware could get fixed. But of course older hw revs had bugs. If they had none we would haven been ready earlier. ;) Jul 03 19:09:23 TAsn: thx. seriously you get the shipping cost before paying Jul 03 19:09:25 let's kick that CIA bot. Jul 03 19:09:28 TAsn: so its easy to check Jul 03 19:09:34 _ferric: Yeah, I was trying to figure out what to call the page Jul 03 19:09:40 donomo, i know. Jul 03 19:09:44 TAsn: the bot was here long before you were :) Jul 03 19:09:46 _ferric: Then I got halfway through it and realized that I had to name the release that Jul 03 19:09:59 So I went back & reworded it that way Jul 03 19:10:03 but that means you have to enter all the shipping data Jul 03 19:10:11 before getting it Jul 03 19:10:31 and that's time consuming since i wanna check multipile addresses... Jul 03 19:10:33 <_ferric> wurp2: cool. what does 'run the buildhost' mean? Jul 03 19:10:36 doc|work, damn him. Jul 03 19:10:39 wow. i thought this day would never come. i ordered one. Jul 03 19:10:51 donomo, damn you ;) Jul 03 19:11:00 donomo: feel free to order one for everybody in the channel :D Jul 03 19:11:12 donomo: hehe, yeah, no kidding. Jul 03 19:11:23 freerunners for everyone! Jul 03 19:11:37 and.. i may be blind, but anyone know what the warranty is on these things? or is there one? :) Jul 03 19:11:57 14 day DOA Jul 03 19:12:03 28 day DOA for 10-group Jul 03 19:12:10 _ferric: Someone needs to run the machine that builds the SHR Jul 03 19:12:11 it's 80$ to the eu... ;\ Jul 03 19:12:13 ok Jul 03 19:12:17 thanks Jul 03 19:12:33 <_ferric> wurp2: is that what's happening with all the other releases? Jul 03 19:12:34 _ferric: Since Ainulindale already has a buildhost set up & expressed some interest in this a day or 2 ago, I thought he is a good candidate Jul 03 19:12:36 (uk actually) Jul 03 19:12:42 i used the slowest shipping. ive been waiting this long.... Jul 03 19:12:53 _ferric: Yeah, on the Repositories page you'll see links to a bunch of different buildhosts Jul 03 19:13:09 i think it may be better to order from the EU and get 2 years warrenty... Jul 03 19:13:23 what say you? ;0 Jul 03 19:13:43 hehe Jul 03 19:13:44 _ferric: It really just means, who is running the "official" mokomakefile or bitbake build process that produces the opkgs, .jffs2, etc. files that you would install on your neo Jul 03 19:13:51 <_ferric> wurp2: shrug. how about just throwing the source on github? Jul 03 19:14:14 so, anybody confirmed whether the freerunner can output a2dp? Jul 03 19:14:31 _ferric: Well, I figure we'll get the source from the existing repos for ASU, FSO, 2007.2 (mostly) Jul 03 19:14:38 25$ for 2yrs warrenty sounds good enough... Jul 03 19:14:59 i think i will buy from the EU. Jul 03 19:15:03 well cya anyway ;) Jul 03 19:15:08 _ferric: But someone needs to run the build process to gen the images - like ScaredyCat does for his images. We don't want everyone to have to rebuild the image to install... Jul 03 19:15:20 <_ferric> wurp2: ah got it Jul 03 19:15:38 <_ferric> wurp2: lets wait for that Ainulidale dude then Jul 03 19:16:22 _ferric: I'm sure there are tons of tasks that I didn't identify, but I think we'll have to start trying to build it to figure out what all of them are Jul 03 19:16:46 <_ferric> wurp2: yeah, this is a great overview! Jul 03 19:17:31 wurp2, what's the link again? Jul 03 19:17:48 TAsn: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 03 19:17:55 _ferric: thx Jul 03 19:18:23 hello, i don't have the freerunner yet but how is it possible physically to connect an USB keyboard to the freerunner...because it seems that it isn't comming with the cable that allows it Jul 03 19:18:45 wurp2, thanks :) Jul 03 19:18:54 it should be coming with a y=-cable. right? Jul 03 19:19:07 Gnutoo, buy an adapter :) Jul 03 19:19:08 (at least in bearstech's shop) Jul 03 19:19:21 hey all Jul 03 19:19:42 so gsm 850 doesn't work in europe? Jul 03 19:20:08 bobesponja: 850 doesn't but 1800/1900 might (I'm hoping it will) Jul 03 19:20:14 TAsn, i have one that is like this: http://www.newmp3technology.com/usbhostcable-pma.htm will it work? Jul 03 19:20:28 bobesponja, no it doesn't work in europe Jul 03 19:20:32 Gnutoo: should do Jul 03 19:20:35 wurp2, i created SHR that points to Stable Hybrid Release so you can search for shr Jul 03 19:20:39 doc|work, wow thanks a lot Jul 03 19:20:42 Gnutoo: why not? Jul 03 19:20:42 1800/1900 are common in europe. Jul 03 19:20:47 1800 is often available in heavily populated areas Jul 03 19:20:48 doc|work: and is 1800/1900 coming out soon? Jul 03 19:20:56 bobesponja: they all have 1800/1900 Jul 03 19:21:00 bobesponja, every freerunner does 1800/1900 Jul 03 19:21:02 Gnutoo, i agree. Jul 03 19:21:03 HauDyr: thanks! Jul 03 19:21:05 bobesponja: it's on both phones, 850 and 900, they're tri-band Jul 03 19:21:05 bobesponja: the existing models are 850/1800/1900 900/1800/1900 Jul 03 19:21:25 ok thanks for the info Jul 03 19:21:26 Gnutoo: Use a bluetooth keyboard Jul 03 19:21:29 methinks we'll have to explain this a lot over the next few months :) Jul 03 19:21:34 seems so Jul 03 19:21:36 how about south america cause that's where I am right now? Jul 03 19:21:38 or they could just do quad-band :p Jul 03 19:21:40 * Qwell hides Jul 03 19:21:45 just have a bot so we can go !gsm Jul 03 19:21:51 doc|work: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ fodder Jul 03 19:21:59 !gsm Jul 03 19:21:59 Qwell: hehe, maybe for the gta03 :) Jul 03 19:22:01 ~gsm Jul 03 19:22:02 well, gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. Jul 03 19:22:17 wurp2: good plan :) Jul 03 19:22:21 for everyone wondering about the frequencies: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml Jul 03 19:22:26 wurp2, but i already have a very small keyboard and mabe i'll plan to plug an usb key with the power management will be better...by the way it works 12h? Jul 03 19:22:34 apt: 850vs900 is All FreeRunner phones support 1800/1900mhz - the difference is the addition of (either) 850mhz or 900mhz Jul 03 19:22:35 Qwell: okay Jul 03 19:22:36 there Jul 03 19:22:41 Gnutoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ ;-) Jul 03 19:23:00 my phone works both in europe and us, does it mean it has both 850 and 900? Jul 03 19:23:08 bobesponja: possibly Jul 03 19:23:20 GSM is four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both. Jul 03 19:23:26 ~gsm Jul 03 19:23:27 well, gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. Jul 03 19:23:32 * SpeedEvil sighs Jul 03 19:23:33 SpeedEvil: no, gsm is... Jul 03 19:23:43 or, "gsm is also ..." Jul 03 19:23:48 cool. my phone should work in Ireland too :) Jul 03 19:23:50 gsm is four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both. Jul 03 19:23:51 No 1900 in Europe, I believe. Jul 03 19:23:52 * doc|work does a dance Jul 03 19:23:52 ~gsm Jul 03 19:23:53 well, gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. Jul 03 19:23:56 SpeedEvil: And both versions of FR also support 1800 & 1900 MHz Jul 03 19:23:57 prefix with apt: Jul 03 19:24:00 <_ferric> there are quad band phones Jul 03 19:24:04 here :p Jul 03 19:24:08 apt: gsm is also four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both. Jul 03 19:24:10 Qwell: okay Jul 03 19:24:17 SpeedEvil: I mean, I nkow you know that, but... Jul 03 19:24:20 yeah Jul 03 19:24:27 apt: kills me to hear GSM and FR here because I keep thinking of "GSM full rate" Jul 03 19:25:09 apt: gsm is four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. Both variants also support the other two bands. Jul 03 19:25:10 ...but gsm is already something else... Jul 03 19:25:19 SpeedEvil: slow :D Jul 03 19:25:20 ~gsm Jul 03 19:25:21 i guess gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both. Jul 03 19:25:28 * SpeedEvil sighs Jul 03 19:25:51 When did the store start to sell the fr? Jul 03 19:26:26 today Jul 03 19:26:27 i assume sometime between yesterday and today Jul 03 19:26:44 * mwester suspects the other parts of the americas will be irritated to be lumped in with "US" ;) Jul 03 19:26:48 it wasn't there when I went to sleep, but it was there when I woke up.. Jul 03 19:28:07 wurp2, thanks Jul 03 19:28:39 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 03 19:28:42 I had logging off. Jul 03 19:28:49 mwester: and your suspiction would be correct :p Jul 03 19:28:52 When I first noticed, there were 470 left Jul 03 19:29:02 I changet the topic at 14:02 GMT Jul 03 19:29:08 to say store open Jul 03 19:29:18 is there a file, which is executed after every boot? Jul 03 19:29:23 HdR: many Jul 03 19:29:30 HdR: /etc/rc* Jul 03 19:29:30 well, when will they have more? :P Jul 03 19:29:38 !logs Jul 03 19:29:38 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Jul 03 19:29:39 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Jul 03 19:29:40 Live-logs are available at Jul 03 19:29:42 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Jul 03 19:29:44 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Jul 03 19:30:44 SpeedEvil: and which file is for sth like "ifup eth0"? ^^ Jul 03 19:34:05 [20080703 12:27:44] just ordered a freerunner Jul 03 19:34:26 So - 6 hoursish Jul 03 19:34:44 HdR: I dunno - my phone is down ATM, it ran out of battery. Jul 03 19:35:02 HdR: what you doing? Jul 03 19:35:27 think about where i place the command ;) Jul 03 19:36:52 so a race between orders direct from openmoko and the next batch arriving via truebox? Jul 03 19:37:27 <_ferric> wurp2: any ideas where the official asu git repo is? Jul 03 19:37:29 <_ferric> "official" Jul 03 19:38:37 ok, one more time...anyone here know how to upgrade the qemu setup (from MokoMakefile) to utilize gta02 hardware/software? Jul 03 19:39:03 mokomakefile, change branch to: "OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.dev" Jul 03 19:39:37 Xaos: the qemu emulator doesn't support gta02 hardware emulation Jul 03 19:39:45 <_ferric> mwester: cool, thanks. Jul 03 19:39:56 <_ferric> mwester: what are your images based off of? 2007.2? Jul 03 19:40:38 I work on kernels mostly, I just build the latest images from whatever is available. Jul 03 19:41:00 <_ferric> heh. whatever is available. :/ Jul 03 19:41:16 _ferric: So it sounds as if maybe we want to create another branch, and import into it from ASU and 2007.2 Jul 03 19:41:46 And another branch on the FSO repositories, and use a build that pulls from both (which the MokoMakefile process already does) Jul 03 19:41:57 mwester: it indicates that it CAN emulate GTA02 here: Jul 03 19:41:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Neo_FreeRunner_.28GTA02.29 Jul 03 19:42:22 It doesn't pull from our hypothetical new branches, of course, but pulls from the ASU branch & can pull from FSO repos Jul 03 19:42:43 <_ferric> wurp2: yes that would be the idea Jul 03 19:43:20 I have no idea how to go about getting permission to create our own branch Jul 03 19:43:36 check it out with git-svn and create your own :P Jul 03 19:43:38 _ferric: Worst case, though, we create a new git repo & pull from the others Jul 03 19:44:04 Does git support heirarchical revision repositories? Jul 03 19:44:25 <_ferric> but it would be easy to get MMF to pull from our new git repo Jul 03 19:44:28 Xaos: it doesn't actually emulate the 02 hardware, that technique fakes it. Jul 03 19:44:43 _ferric: yep Jul 03 19:44:56 The hard part is getting the right stuff into the repo ;-) Jul 03 19:45:00 <_ferric> right. Jul 03 19:45:01 so I just ordered the freerunner (extreme newb) and want to get a basic system running on my box. is the MokoMakefile the best way to do that? Jul 03 19:45:26 <_ferric> wurp2: maybe i'll start a new git repo and start adding stuff I think should be in there tonight. Jul 03 19:46:25 mwester: so, how exactly do I get it to fake the gta02 hw? I'm trying to get it to do something besides just sit there with the 4 buttons that don't do anything ;-) Jul 03 19:46:59 Dunno. Jul 03 19:47:14 _ferric: Great! Jul 03 19:47:23 do you have it running successfully in qemu (even as a gta01)? Jul 03 19:47:31 _ferric: Do you wanna add a task for maintaining the repo, and add yourself to it? Jul 03 19:47:52 I did the gta01 in qemu once; enough to convince me that it was too slow to be useful. that was a long time ago... Jul 03 19:48:12 Is there someone on who builds their own custom releases and can give us a sanity check? Or, someone who knows how the existing OM and FSO repositories are managed? Jul 03 19:48:37 mwester: mine boots up fast enough, but then it just sits there with "No Network" and the four buttons that change color when clicked, but that's it. Jul 03 19:49:06 is there ANY way I can actually start trying to develop some things (Maybe python scripts) before I get my phone next week? Jul 03 19:50:22 <_ferric> wurp2: yes, will do Jul 03 19:50:24 Xaos: You could develop python scripts on your PC... Jul 03 19:50:43 With nothing special, although you should probably look at what py*.opkg there are in OM Jul 03 19:51:02 well, yeah, but how will I know what things look like on the phone? or hook into the phone's functionality? Jul 03 19:51:08 ScaredyCat: ping again Jul 03 19:51:53 or for that matter even do the little "Hello World" example of a compiled program before I get my phone? Jul 03 19:52:03 <_ferric> mwester: so what's the story with your branch and andy's changes and the abortion that is now Gta01 Jul 03 19:52:05 Even after getting the device, I'd rather run them first in the emulator Jul 03 19:52:18 <_ferric> mwester: is the gsm chipset on the 01 fundamentally broken? Jul 03 19:52:21 Xaos: That depends on what functionality you're looking for. For making it look right, you can put it in a 480x640 window. You'd have some rework to do, but not much unless you accidentally use a package not in OM Jul 03 19:52:52 Xaos: I always run stuff on the OM; it seems easier to me than qemu Jul 03 19:53:10 I haven't done any compiled stuff for it yet, though, just python & shell scripting Jul 03 19:54:07 480*640, and back off to around 3 times the distance. Jul 03 19:54:28 Search xephyr on the wiki Jul 03 19:54:50 hrm.. are there python bindings for Qtopia? :o Jul 03 19:54:56 or is it the same as for Qt? Jul 03 19:54:59 uggh Jul 03 19:55:06 think the openmoko store will support multiple payment methods? >.< Jul 03 19:55:10 Hey Joerg Jul 03 19:55:20 or, anybody have any suggestions? Jul 03 19:55:29 TAsn, wurp2 for the usb adapter here a closer look at my input of my adapter...i think it won't work...http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/226/img1697dk4.jpg Jul 03 19:55:59 Gnutoo: Sorry, can't really see that Jul 03 19:56:09 And I don't recall if the neo is mini-usb A or B Jul 03 19:56:32 wurp2, ah ok...does anyone knows Jul 03 19:56:33 ? Jul 03 19:56:35 Qwell, it is likely. Jul 03 19:56:42 let me rephrase Jul 03 19:56:53 I have 3 cards that total up to $400. :p Jul 03 19:56:56 Gnutoo: mini-usb B Jul 03 19:57:08 Why are you guys so Qtopia ga-ga? Jul 03 19:57:19 some POS systems allow multiple smallish payments that equal one large payment Jul 03 19:57:27 Qwell, are you including gratuity as well? :D Jul 03 19:57:33 Qwell: Balance xfer? Jul 03 19:57:39 wurp2: too slow Jul 03 19:57:50 Qwell: Bum from relatives? Jul 03 19:57:52 Qwell, work it out with a friend? Jul 03 19:57:57 pretty much :P Jul 03 19:58:00 <_ferric> wurp2: you think we should baseline on FSO and then pull from ASU and 2007.2? Jul 03 19:58:04 wurp2, so it won't work since i have mini-A Jul 03 19:58:11 wurp2, thanks a lot Jul 03 19:58:14 _ferric: I'm not sure Jul 03 19:58:16 good idea. somebody loan me $400? :P Jul 03 19:58:16 Gnutoo: welcome Jul 03 19:58:24 hah! Jul 03 19:58:31 Qwell's good for it! Jul 03 19:58:32 kelvie_: havent heard of any python bindings for qtopia Jul 03 19:58:33 Notice that I said *relatives* Jul 03 19:58:33 * Gnutoo has to find an adapter in france or in italy before buying the freerunner Jul 03 19:58:46 :P Jul 03 19:58:56 Gnutoo: An adapter cable came w/ 1973 Jul 03 19:59:00 Gnutoo, it doesn't come with one? Jul 03 19:59:03 right Jul 03 19:59:09 mine came with two international adapters Jul 03 19:59:15 That's what I figured Jul 03 19:59:37 Dave: yep Jul 03 19:59:38 I had no need for such strange adapters :p Jul 03 19:59:43 Joerg, bad news. Jul 03 19:59:46 _ferric: Actually, I think the OE between ASU & FSO should be the same Jul 03 19:59:54 Joerg, the battery must be bad. Jul 03 20:00:11 _ferric: So I think we'll actually pull from the OE repo, ASU repo (also for 2007.2, I think), and FSO repo Jul 03 20:00:12 Dave, i want to make usb-host work...so i need another cable than the one provided no? Jul 03 20:00:25 Gnutoo: Only if you want it to be powered Jul 03 20:00:53 Joerg, I just did the same power-on swap as last night to recharge it (since it died this morning, reverting to its similarly dead state), and while I was in a meeting just now, it apparently died (while charging), and won't turn on again. Jul 03 20:01:30 I believe I have a pretty good understanding of why it happens this way. Jul 03 20:01:51 Dave: hmm. maybe bat is really broken Jul 03 20:02:38 Dave: have you followed the usual GTA01 procedure of remove USB and battery, wait 5 min, replace bat, replace USB, wait about an hour? Jul 03 20:02:47 wurp2, ah ...strange that i need a special cable for powered things... Jul 03 20:02:53 Daviey: though as I undestood that should not be needed for GTA02 Jul 03 20:03:17 Dave: I don't think we have any statistics on dropout rate of batteries Jul 03 20:03:25 gnu{-: You should normally need a power thing for a power cable Jul 03 20:03:35 gnu{-: You should normally need a power thing for a powered device Jul 03 20:04:01 lame! no paypal or amex Jul 03 20:04:05 christooss: the reason is that the device should detect the host being present by there being power on the USB Jul 03 20:04:14 Gnutoo: even Jul 03 20:04:32 (for GTA01 - GTA02 of course has a power thingy) Jul 03 20:04:46 the US phones are shipping out of fremont, CA right? Jul 03 20:04:46 <_ferric> wurp2: wow. okay. Jul 03 20:05:17 SpeedEvil, ah ok...i want to buy the GTA02...and according to the wiki it can now power 500mA and not 100 Jul 03 20:05:17 oh, the FR comes with a charger? woot Jul 03 20:05:20 Dave: please report in detail on kernel-list. We are dealing with this sort of issue there Jul 03 20:05:26 so no more.. running it dead and waiting hours to bring it back? Jul 03 20:05:42 _ferric: I am going by memory of what I've read here. We won't know specifics until we can get someone in the know to respond, or we start trying to do it. Jul 03 20:05:50 Joerg, sure, if you'd like me to. Jul 03 20:05:58 <_ferric> wurp2: yep. agreed. Jul 03 20:06:09 Joerg, so you'd rather I do that than go into greater detail about it here? :P Jul 03 20:06:13 \o/ yeah frogpad is running on my gta01 Jul 03 20:06:36 is apci a problem with the gta2? Jul 03 20:06:36 _ferric: I'm not even sure at this point if we should be branching in the other repos, labeling in the other repos, or leaving them totally alone & just use our own copy Jul 03 20:06:42 Dave: yep Jul 03 20:06:57 Dave: IRC is volatile Jul 03 20:07:07 haha, to say the least ;) Jul 03 20:07:08 kdubois: GTA02 is a x86 thing Jul 03 20:07:10 _ferric: I think git has good support for integrating patches from another repo + your own individual changes Jul 03 20:07:13 okay, where am I writing to? :) Jul 03 20:07:17 kdubois: power saving is not done yet. Jul 03 20:07:23 Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. Jul 03 20:07:28 haha yeah, what power saving? ;) Jul 03 20:07:48 power saving is kernel work, right? Jul 03 20:07:50 SpeedEvil, gta02 is not x86 Jul 03 20:07:50 Dave: the screen blanks. Jul 03 20:07:56 sometimes! Jul 03 20:07:59 kdubois: it's a mixture. Jul 03 20:08:13 kdubois: it's about 50% kernel, 40% apps, 40% user Jul 03 20:08:16 also I swear I wish this thing had a HOLD switch, a la 1995 discmans :P Jul 03 20:08:28 <_ferric> wurp2: yes, git is awesome that way Jul 03 20:08:31 SpeedEvil: That's a lot of % Jul 03 20:08:43 wurp2: yes. The freerunner is 130% awesome. Jul 03 20:08:50 fucking touchscreen is annoying; I put it in the case, and my pocket, even when it's locked, it just tap tap tappity tap taps, and thus illuminates the screen. Jul 03 20:08:53 lame. Jul 03 20:08:56 ah, i'm just looking for some way to help out, and i've been wanting to find a kernel-y project to do... Jul 03 20:08:57 Speedevil, hah :p Jul 03 20:08:58 Dave: Jul 03 20:08:59 SpeedEvil: Except when it's 130% frustrating Jul 03 20:09:02 No battery Vsys issue is USB overcurrent? Jul 03 20:09:14 Von: Jul 03 20:09:18 Andy Green Jul 03 20:09:18 An: Jul 03 20:09:18 openmoko-kernel@lists.openmoko.org Jul 03 20:09:18 Datum: Jul 03 20:09:18 2008-06-30 12:57 Jul 03 20:09:29 Ah. Jul 03 20:09:39 Is that the thread? :p Jul 03 20:09:51 <_ferric> wurp2: so we start with just pulling the OE out of FSO and ASU and making sure its good and adding it to SHR? Jul 03 20:10:01 Dave: I'd suggest Jul 03 20:11:36 Dave: you should CC michel AT om and steveATom, telling about you probably have a battery that's solid tilt Jul 03 20:11:57 _ferric: I think so. It should be the same OE for FSO and ASU. Jul 03 20:12:02 Dave: what exactly you did and what's your findings Jul 03 20:12:17 _ferric: Emailing openmoko-devel to ask advice on how to start another release Jul 03 20:12:39 Dave: Do you have a voltmeter? Jul 03 20:12:50 yep, many :p Jul 03 20:13:04 What's the volts across the + and - terminals? Jul 03 20:13:12 I can find out :) Jul 03 20:13:25 <_ferric> wurp2: you saw this, right: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/category/opensource/openmoko/ Jul 03 20:13:49 Dave: This may not be completely accurate - due to the protection circuitry - it may shut off at low charge Jul 03 20:14:04 Right Jul 03 20:14:12 I'm more hoping it's not zero :[ Jul 03 20:14:32 _ferric: The GSM in general is not well-behaved wrt flow-control, it results in UART overruns and lost data on the GTA01; the GTA02 has a larger UART FIFO and seems to handle the data better. There has been no response from Openmoko on this issue with the GSM, so we have to assume that they have no interest in fixing it. Jul 03 20:14:38 <_ferric> wurp2: mickey's a good guy to talk to about this, i think Jul 03 20:14:53 So we have to find a way to make the GTA01 not lose any data... which has proven to be extraordinarily difficult. Jul 03 20:15:01 If it is zero, unfortunately, that's not saying it's dead. My GTA01 battery has been at 0V and has recovered without any errors. Jul 03 20:15:02 Dave: you told it died during charging. So probably prot-circuit cut out Jul 03 20:15:21 Something like that. Jul 03 20:15:28 OK....about to order....I'm going out of town for 2 weeks on the 9th... can I get it to my home address before I leave? Or should I have it shipped to my vacation address? Jul 03 20:16:00 Though I have noticed that after fully charging a cell, it then stops and it begins discharging again, as if it were not connected (even though it blatantly is). Jul 03 20:16:03 mwester-trip: What is the problem with overruns? I understand that long SMSs can overrun. But is there anything actually lost - you can request SMSs from storage can't you? Jul 03 20:16:07 * jOERG_rw sick today. go back to bed. bye folks :-S Jul 03 20:16:13 I am unsure of this behavior, though clearly the battery indicator is not to be trusted :) Jul 03 20:16:16 <_ferric> mwester: ah. i see, but is this somethingthat needs to get fixed in the kernel or in a layer above it? Jul 03 20:16:22 Aww, get better soon, Joerg! :D Jul 03 20:16:38 mwester-trip: maybe both Jul 03 20:16:40 err Jul 03 20:16:44 _ferric: maybe both Jul 03 20:16:47 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: ah Jul 03 20:17:12 _ferric: The right fix would be to get the firmware fixed so it supports flow control properly. Jul 03 20:17:14 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: I don't understand the interaction between the hardware, the kernel and {gsmd,phonekit,ophoned} too well Jul 03 20:17:35 <_ferric> SpeedEvil: yes, and as mwester's alludes that does not seem to be on the table Jul 03 20:17:35 _ferric: unfortunately, the only ones (the community thingks) able to do this is engineers at TI. Jul 03 20:17:36 <_ferric> not for 01 Jul 03 20:17:42 _ferric: Yes, I've seen Mickey's post. Some of the discussion leading up to that post is what prompted me to try to get moving on SHR Jul 03 20:17:59 <_ferric> wurp2: cool, it looks like he's laid out a plan for SHR towards the end, no? Jul 03 20:18:05 yep Jul 03 20:18:06 Hmm, yeah, strange, I just left it unplugged and with the battery taken out, then reconnected everything, and it powered on o.O Jul 03 20:18:36 SpeedEvil: If the interrupt latency is too high (such is often the case immediately during and after resume), the GTA01 UART will overrun and drop some characters. The lost data is the dropped chars; theoretically the gsmd could detect this, and take action to recover the connection, and figure out what the lost data may have been (an incoming SMS, or an incoming call, or a status change, etc). Jul 03 20:18:38 Perhaps the battery is flawed and is repeatedly running low voltage, tripping the protection circuit? Jul 03 20:18:52 But, no gsmd implementations even log the fact that an overrun has happened. Jul 03 20:18:54 :( Jul 03 20:18:58 <_ferric> wurp2: k, just wanted to make sure Jul 03 20:19:16 * SpeedEvil rewrites gsmd in awk. Jul 03 20:19:25 * SpeedEvil ponders if it should be one line or two. Jul 03 20:19:31 :) Jul 03 20:19:43 awk is a wonderful thing Jul 03 20:19:43 One line, as in obfuscated C. Jul 03 20:19:43 Dave: we have three prot states in batprot: underV overV and overtemp Jul 03 20:19:56 Ah, yes, makes sense :) Jul 03 20:20:14 _ferric: I have no idea if this is accurate, but I found: http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/openmoko-phonekit-proposal.pdf Jul 03 20:20:30 Qwell: Once I found perl, I quit writing awk & sed almost completely Jul 03 20:20:36 overtemp recover auto. overV (though *never* should happen) recovers on discharge. underV recovers on charge Jul 03 20:20:44 Is there any way to see what the current charge/capacity is on the device (battery)? Jul 03 20:20:55 * mwester loves perl as well, and notes that there is a perl/gtk module -- although not in the OM feeds. Jul 03 20:21:01 <_ferric> that state machine mickey has on his blog, is that for gsmd? Jul 03 20:21:01 Daviey: observe the voltage Jul 03 20:21:12 Dave: that's a very good proxy for state of charge. Jul 03 20:21:14 _ferric: Per that diagram, maybe the adapter is not gsmd-to-ophoned, maybe it's phonekit-to-ophoned Jul 03 20:21:16 * Dave high-fives mwester Jul 03 20:21:24 <_ferric> wurp2: that seems to explain phonekit's purpose Jul 03 20:21:26 Speedevil, alright. Jul 03 20:21:35 Dave: 4.1V=90%, 3.6V=10%, it's sort-of-linear between those Jul 03 20:21:36 <_ferric> wurp2: whihc one of FSO, ASU, and 2007. uses phonekit? Jul 03 20:21:38 Dave: somewher in /dev or /sys or /proc: *apm* Jul 03 20:21:38 _ferric: I don't think Mickey's diagram is for gsmd Jul 03 20:21:49 _ferric: It should be for FSO Jul 03 20:21:49 _ferric: ASU Jul 03 20:21:52 _ferric: 2007.2 Jul 03 20:22:00 save: rather than observing any capacity measurement which is a derived unit Jul 03 20:22:13 <_ferric> wurp2: from mickey's blog: So I’m rewriting the call handling in the Open Phone Daemon for the second time now. Jul 03 20:22:14 _ferric: It should be -> Mickey's diagram should be Jul 03 20:22:17 As you can't measure charge directly. Jul 03 20:22:22 Dave: reads out internal coulomb counter. slow but accurate as far as i can tell Jul 03 20:22:23 (well, you can weigh the battery) Jul 03 20:22:26 _ferric: That is FSO Jul 03 20:22:31 Aha Jul 03 20:22:33 <_ferric> wurp2: gotcha Jul 03 20:22:35 Speedevil, hah :) Jul 03 20:22:42 Open Phone Daemon -> ophoned = part of FSO Jul 03 20:22:44 jOERG_rw: does the internal counter do more than count? Can it ever turn the phone off? Jul 03 20:22:49 <_ferric> wurp2: alright Jul 03 20:23:00 SpeedEvil: no, never Jul 03 20:23:09 let me just bust out my analytic balance and... Jul 03 20:23:15 :p Jul 03 20:23:17 edistar_: Does ASU use phonekit too? I thought it just supported the Qtopia dialer, which has its own architecture Jul 03 20:23:45 <_ferric> yeah, i thought qtopia had its own abstraction as well Jul 03 20:23:54 * Dave shudders... Qtopia. Jul 03 20:24:04 turnoff is handled by PMU voltage limts set in some of these registers Jul 03 20:24:16 <_ferric> lol Dave Jul 03 20:24:19 Shudder all you like, Qtopia has more stable sw on OM hardware than anything but FSO :-/ Jul 03 20:24:31 err, PMU observing bat volt Jul 03 20:24:32 <_ferric> wurp2: Dave finds Qtopia totally unstable Jul 03 20:24:37 wurp2: sorry, mistake Jul 03 20:24:40 Yes. Jul 03 20:24:51 edistar_: NP, just making sure I wasn't crazy Jul 03 20:24:59 Well only a few of the apps, and the lack of apps/content was rather disappointing, that, and it lagged pretty badly. Jul 03 20:25:11 More so than the ASU stuff Jul 03 20:25:11 Dave: "real" Qtopia, or openmoko-qtopia-hybrid-stuff Jul 03 20:25:12 ? Jul 03 20:25:13 * jOERG_rw away Jul 03 20:25:20 the openmoko-hybrid stuff :D Jul 03 20:25:26 thats not qtopia Jul 03 20:25:29 Dave: Oh, yeah, that stinks Jul 03 20:25:30 not the real qtopia, sorry ;) Jul 03 20:25:33 Yeah, I know :D Jul 03 20:25:35 Dave: The real qtopia works well Jul 03 20:25:45 Although I do much prefer to have real X running Jul 03 20:25:46 though qtopia itself is fine, though I have a couple trivial complaints about it :) Jul 03 20:25:49 right :P Jul 03 20:25:55 as would most of us :) Jul 03 20:26:35 Dave: such as...? Jul 03 20:26:46 So Joerg, should I write up my observations and various investigations to send off later? Jul 03 20:35:15 Is there any nice way of ridding myself of the annoying tapping sound on the devices? :) Jul 03 20:35:28 <_ferric> rid yourself of the device Jul 03 20:35:36 <_ferric> (i'm across the river - hey!) Jul 03 20:35:42 Dave: use qtopia Jul 03 20:35:54 <_ferric> lol Jul 03 20:35:55 hahaha Jul 03 20:36:31 Nice one :p Jul 03 20:36:46 ferric, come on down :) Jul 03 20:38:26 don't mean to derail the conversation, but does anyone know who is doing the shipping for the GTA02 in the US? Or just estimated time for shipping? I need to know where to have mine sent. Jul 03 20:39:16 MadTBone: ups :( Jul 03 20:39:23 heehee Jul 03 20:39:26 Dave: There's a sound file somewhere on the system that you can remove (or replace with a file of silence) Jul 03 20:39:33 Dave: But I dunno where it is :-) Jul 03 20:39:38 hope you get yours intact, and within some absorbant amount of time :) Jul 03 20:39:47 wurp, oh gawd, is there? Jul 03 20:39:47 Dave: you could add an option :) Jul 03 20:39:54 Certainly could! Jul 03 20:40:00 open++ Jul 03 20:40:01 I hope to. Jul 03 20:40:11 It's entirely aggravating. Jul 03 20:40:20 heh Jul 03 20:40:30 I'd still rather take a hold switch for the touchscreen. Jul 03 20:40:33 doc|work: UPS....could be worse... do you know where they're coming from (which state) and who is actually doing order fulfillment? Jul 03 20:40:37 That's far more obnoxious. Jul 03 20:41:57 MadTBone: fremont, california, and nope, sorry Jul 03 20:42:20 doc|work: thanks Jul 03 20:42:24 It's a mystery! Jul 03 20:42:32 Dave: Well, you can suspend... Jul 03 20:42:38 MadTBone: np Jul 03 20:43:03 Dave: I'm sure there's also a way to turn off the touchscreen - it should be out there in /sys somewhere. But then you'd need to make sure the aux key turned it back on, or something Jul 03 20:43:18 wurp2, right :[ Jul 03 20:43:22 You don't have to turn on the display when you get a touch. Jul 03 20:43:34 You can onlt turn on on a vertical swipe across the screen, forexample. Jul 03 20:43:38 No, that's my point - that's it's current functionality. Jul 03 20:44:09 how's the battery life on the FR btw? Jul 03 20:44:15 Oy. Jul 03 20:44:23 nullpuppy, getting there. Jul 03 20:44:27 or is that posted somewhere? ;) Jul 03 20:44:28 k Jul 03 20:44:36 apt: faq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ Jul 03 20:44:37 ...but faq is already something else... Jul 03 20:44:39 nullpuppy: best not to ask just yet :) Jul 03 20:44:42 ~apt Jul 03 20:44:43 hmm... apt is not as cool as jbot Jul 03 20:44:47 er Jul 03 20:44:48 k :) just curious Jul 03 20:44:49 haha Jul 03 20:44:50 ~faq Jul 03 20:44:50 from memory, faq is frequently asked question... try asking me about "RTFM" Jul 03 20:45:05 * Dave rolls his eyes at wurp Jul 03 20:45:16 apt: wash your mouth out with soap! Jul 03 20:45:17 * apt throws a barrel-full of ice water on your mouth out with soap! and says "That was for the smell" Jul 03 20:45:18 hmm, I wonder... Jul 03 20:45:30 its like the 5. time the battery came up today :-) Jul 03 20:45:33 Dammit, how do I make it forget that one and take my word as gospel? Jul 03 20:45:39 HauDyr: to be expected Jul 03 20:45:41 :/ Jul 03 20:45:49 so far, I've heard 21 hours Jul 03 20:45:53 That's why it's in the faq :-) Jul 03 20:45:54 apt forget faq Jul 03 20:45:54 Dave: i forgot faq Jul 03 20:45:55 haha, yeah, sorry, i'm at work so not really paying attention to irc.... :) Jul 03 20:45:57 :P Jul 03 20:45:58 much work still to be done Jul 03 20:45:59 Dave: thx Jul 03 20:46:05 * Dave pets apt Jul 03 20:46:06 apt: faq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ Jul 03 20:46:07 okay, wurp2 Jul 03 20:46:09 apt: botsnack Jul 03 20:46:10 Dave: :) Jul 03 20:46:12 :D Jul 03 20:46:43 probably going to try and get a dev and build environment setup when i get home so i can start messing with the software and stuff Jul 03 20:46:57 Sounds good! Jul 03 20:47:18 Prepare to be amazed, bewildered, and infuriated! Jul 03 20:47:22 :) Jul 03 20:48:01 Now, where are you little touch screen device... Jul 03 20:53:57 haha, oh, duh. :P Jul 03 20:54:09 wurp, if you just stop pulseaudio, problem solved :D Jul 03 20:54:14 Logically ;) Jul 03 20:54:57 I bet it could harmlessly be removed from startup, as well. Jul 03 20:55:34 hahahaha, hilarity! Jul 03 20:55:43 cat /dev/input/touchscreen0 > /dev/audio Jul 03 20:55:46 Whee. Jul 03 20:56:00 He who laughs alone, looks a little crazy. Jul 03 20:56:14 anybody uses FR with Verizon wireless? Jul 03 20:56:19 That first amused me on pc ten years ago, and now it's just as hilarious, on the freerunner, with the touchscreen :) Jul 03 20:56:23 what happens when you doo that Dave Jul 03 20:56:27 zouzou, that sounds highly impossible. Jul 03 20:56:28 :-) Jul 03 20:56:35 HauDyr: you make your own music by moving your finger! Jul 03 20:56:38 Dave, why is that? Jul 03 20:56:42 cool Jul 03 20:56:45 granted it sounds horrible :p Jul 03 20:57:09 but mildly entertaining, for about five seconds :) Jul 03 20:57:17 Dave: pipe it through sox first, to make it raw wav Jul 03 20:57:26 hot. Jul 03 20:57:36 Qwell, then remix it? :p Jul 03 20:57:56 nah, it's all about sampling these days Jul 03 20:58:23 zouzou: verizon is cmda still afaik, not gsm Jul 03 20:58:28 heh Jul 03 20:58:29 the fr is a gsm phone Jul 03 20:58:39 Verizon IS CDMA. Jul 03 20:58:42 verizon is cdma here in US Jul 03 20:58:43 erm, cdma .. but yeah Jul 03 20:58:52 No SIM cards for them. :[ Jul 03 20:58:55 Unfortunately. Jul 03 20:59:05 yup Jul 03 20:59:52 I should head out. Jul 03 21:00:10 I'll redirect my input to Qwell, while I'm gone :p Jul 03 21:00:12 nullpuppy, interesting, i should probably do some research on that subject, Jul 03 21:00:22 thanx for the guidance tho Jul 03 21:00:24 You can then deal with it as you see fit ;) Jul 03 21:00:24 yup Jul 03 21:00:31 no prob Jul 03 21:02:01 night Jul 03 21:10:23 Nooo... my operator is 900MHZ! Jul 03 21:11:23 vinicius: Buy from a reseller... Jul 03 21:11:24 And you have stupid import duties. Jul 03 21:11:32 ^ Jul 03 21:11:46 importing from US is more amenable for me Jul 03 21:11:59 I guess I can just change operators =P Jul 03 21:12:16 Good evening everybody! (greetings from Germany 11:32 p.m.) Jul 03 21:12:36 howdy hans Jul 03 21:12:42 hi Jul 03 21:12:44 Good evening Hans! (greetings from Germany 11:12 p.m.) Jul 03 21:12:44 ;) Jul 03 21:13:00 Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 38th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3174 Jul 03 21:13:25 <_ferric> heh Jul 03 21:14:14 hello,the batteries last 12h in standby mode...and i can't buy online the Spares Pack because i have no dollars(just euros)...so is there some compatible batteries that i can buy locally...with their respective charger? Jul 03 21:14:57 I saw on the websites the introduction for the FreeRunner... one of the first headings "How to get a console on the telephone" :-) (greetings from Germany 11:13 p.m.) Jul 03 21:15:25 hans: Say hell to the hans of 11:32 as you pass by him Jul 03 21:15:39 s/hell /hello / Jul 03 21:15:39 wurp2 meant: hans: Say hello to the hans of 11:32 as you pass by him Jul 03 21:15:46 My time is faster than yours... ;-)) Jul 03 21:16:05 future is now Jul 03 21:17:19 *waiting for his telephone... (greetings from Germany 11:17 p.m.) Jul 03 21:18:50 hans: Where did you order? Jul 03 21:18:52 * wurp2 pats his telephone Jul 03 21:19:36 I ordered @ pulster.de . They got ~400 Telephones yesterday. Official start of selling for the FreeRunner is the 5th of July... Jul 03 21:19:43 abraxa_: Are fso, asu, zad all just using the same branch of the same git repo for building OE? Jul 03 21:20:06 hans: I think they'll be sold out by 5th of July Jul 03 21:20:21 wurp2: they are already sold out Jul 03 21:20:31 DocCoD: Of what? Jul 03 21:20:36 All phones? Jul 03 21:20:38 yes Jul 03 21:20:40 yep Jul 03 21:20:50 next shipment on 25 July Jul 03 21:20:58 You are just talking about trisoft.de, or OM store too, or all OM stores? Jul 03 21:21:10 webshop won't reopen with debug board? also, is debug board s/necessary/recommended/ for kernel hacking(like trying grub2, l4, hurd.. etc)? Jul 03 21:21:16 s/trisoft/pulster/ Jul 03 21:21:16 wurp2 meant: You are just talking about pulster.de, or OM store too, or all OM stores? Jul 03 21:21:16 pulster.de / pulster.eu / openmoko.eu Jul 03 21:21:36 DocCoD: Ah, I meant all of 'em ;-) Jul 03 21:21:43 trisoft are almost sold out afaik Jul 03 21:21:51 wurp2: I doubt it as fso is hosted on fs.o Jul 03 21:21:56 vinicius, you list things that are afaik x86-only so not tryable without porting Jul 03 21:21:58 OM.com is running low, looks like (on 850 machines) Jul 03 21:22:26 anyway, yeah, pulster at least is out of their first shipment (but I got mine reserved early, humdidum :) Jul 03 21:22:29 abraxa_: So when people build a new image, they have their own OE repo, there's not a shared one they're all pulling from? Jul 03 21:22:30 in fact they are sold out, but some preorders haven't paid for their phones, so these are becoming available again Jul 03 21:23:09 i only want one... ;-) Jul 03 21:23:15 only one... Jul 03 21:23:30 wurp2: I'm no authority on that subject but I would answer your question with a yes Jul 03 21:23:32 vinicius, aanyway, it might be useful for such low-level work Jul 03 21:23:36 hans: so, are you getting one out of the first shipment? Jul 03 21:23:51 no... Jul 03 21:24:11 hans: ah, no luck then. be patient :) Jul 03 21:24:24 All right! Jul 03 21:24:28 Yes, Sir! ;-) Jul 03 21:24:35 abraxa_: Cool, thx Jul 03 21:24:39 But i am very "hungry" for it... Jul 03 21:24:50 hans: the upside is, the loinger you wait, the better the software will be ;) Jul 03 21:24:58 s/loinger/longer Jul 03 21:25:15 Right... Jul 03 21:25:36 And apt-get dist-upgrade will be able, or not? Jul 03 21:25:39 hans: I have a gta01 sitting on my desk that I'll ship to you right now, priority mail, for only 400 euro Jul 03 21:26:06 cesarb: ping Jul 03 21:26:23 so, anyone got a clue on when there will be more 900Mhz phones for sale? Jul 03 21:26:40 hans: no, you'll have to flash a new image to the FR, afaik. In system upgrades have not been implemented yet. Jul 03 21:26:47 ConfidentiaL: Have you fished around at the resellers? Jul 03 21:26:49 ooooh.... sorry.. gta02 is cooler.... ;-) Jul 03 21:27:10 hans: Yeah, that's why I wanted for you to pay for me to upgrade! Jul 03 21:27:46 i feel like a bitch... ;-) Jul 03 21:28:02 wurp2: actually the neo might become a collector's item one day :) Jul 03 21:28:42 wurp2: maybe it will be worth more later on Jul 03 21:28:42 DocCoD: I just hope I haven't ruined the value through use between now & then Jul 03 21:29:04 wurp2: you mean you didn't keep it in its pristine packaging?? shame on you! Jul 03 21:29:12 I have a couple of short scratches in the case, and one in the screen :-O Jul 03 21:29:20 hehe Jul 03 21:29:26 does the screen scratch easily? Jul 03 21:29:29 No Jul 03 21:29:33 But I was persistent Jul 03 21:29:36 * doc|work eyes DocCoD Jul 03 21:29:52 *Now* I use a screen protector Jul 03 21:30:00 I'm wondering whether I should get screen protection for the FR Jul 03 21:30:04 Yes Jul 03 21:30:05 OpenStreetMap is a really cool project! And with an OpenMoko you can track the streets, ways and so on... Jul 03 21:30:19 hans: Yep, it's a great combo Jul 03 21:30:57 Interestingly, osm has better maps for my area than the maps in the Android demo Jul 03 21:31:09 so yeah, there have been rumors that a neo has been sent to the invisible shield guys for creating shields spesifically for it, but is that verifiable? Jul 03 21:31:19 hans: yep. lots of openstreetmap applications being developed for it Jul 03 21:31:49 OJW: also something vector based with real routing functionality? Jul 03 21:32:35 fish__: navit sort of fits that bill Jul 03 21:33:37 fish__: interesting that you should mention that ;) Jul 03 21:35:02 wurp2: well, that looks pretty nice :) Jul 03 21:35:14 fish__: I develop something called Rana (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rana) which is a rewrite of something called pyroute (which runs on the openmoko) - that does routing, renders maps based on vector data, tells you what road you're on, finds the nearest pubs, lets you share your position with friends, all that sort of stuff Jul 03 21:35:30 fish__: When you route, it is slow :-( Jul 03 21:35:32 * smallprint: some functionality may suffer from nonexistance depending when you look Jul 03 21:35:47 fish__: And it's slower than tangogps, anyway Jul 03 21:35:51 OJW: sounds also really nice Jul 03 21:36:10 fish__: But, it does route, and it does render the map from vector, which means it takes up a *lot* less space on the card Jul 03 21:36:33 And it also doesn't download maps, but that could be fixed fairly easily. Jul 03 21:36:55 rana will use pyroutelib2 for routing. pyroutelib2 takes about 1 minute to calculate a route > 100 miles, including downloading all map data required (on my 800MHz PC, so about the same speed as neo) Jul 03 21:37:10 nnnot about the same speed Jul 03 21:37:34 and when rana has downloaded enough data to calculate the route, it already has enough data to draw maps along your route :) Jul 03 21:37:53 OJW: Have you tried your app on the neo? Pyroute looked very interesting, but was slow, beyond unusably slow Jul 03 21:38:16 wurp2: hence the rewrite - it's a lot smarter with what data it downloads now Jul 03 21:38:31 It looked like rendering issues of some kind Jul 03 21:38:33 this is definitely a field where optimization makes sense, in particular of data structures Jul 03 21:38:39 I wasn't downloading data Jul 03 21:38:50 Python by nature is not efficient for it, but great for expressing the algorithms. Jul 03 21:38:53 the old version [pyroute] basically downloaded all the map data and tried to load it all into memory. the new version [rana] uses tiles of data Jul 03 21:39:06 OJW: Ah, that was probably the issue Jul 03 21:39:13 loading it all into memory Jul 03 21:39:37 Well. Certainly interesting to try Rana on the FR. And yeah, that may have been one issue... Jul 03 21:39:38 SpeedEvil, I got the screen protectors, thanks! Jul 03 21:39:44 * LoneTech will look at Rana Jul 03 21:40:14 i hope my freerunner arrives next week, than i'll try both apps ;) Jul 03 21:40:17 it was doing some stupid stuff, like trying to download the list of all hotels in the world from a particularly slow OSM server. that will all be gone (although new version is still in middle of that rewrite so most functionality isn't yet added) Jul 03 21:41:11 in #osm channel, someone who just got their freerunner is going through the steps of installing rana and testing it, so come and watch if you like, Jul 03 21:41:14 anyone? is there some compatible(with freerunner/GTA02) batteries that i can buy locally...with their respective charger? Jul 03 21:41:55 Gnutoo: iirc, they're compatible with a nokia battery of some sort Jul 03 21:42:02 Gnutoo: There are compatible batteries, but you'd have to search the mailing list archives Jul 03 21:42:11 wurp2, ok thanks Jul 03 21:42:14 As LoneTech says, search for battery compatible nokia Jul 03 21:42:26 But! Jul 03 21:42:26 LoneTech, thanks Jul 03 21:42:42 IIRC nokia batteries tended to work for powering the neo, but it didn't charge them Jul 03 21:42:43 wurp2, but??? Jul 03 21:42:45 at least 1973 Jul 03 21:42:53 The compatible batteries don't have the smart charge data... I think it means they won't show the right charge level Jul 03 21:42:54 mjr, ah ok Jul 03 21:42:59 *still waiting for a telephone... ;-) Jul 03 21:43:08 wurp2, ah ok Jul 03 21:43:12 I thought they would charge in the FR, but I wasn't really paying attention :-/ Jul 03 21:43:18 (greetings from Herford, Germany; 11:43 p.m.) Jul 03 21:43:19 wurp2, dunno. Jul 03 21:43:26 hans: They didn't get it to you in the last 30 min? Jul 03 21:43:38 trying pyroute, it's apparently stuck at downloading POIs. Jul 03 21:43:40 wurp2, so i'd better contact beartech in order to get some more batteries Jul 03 21:43:48 No... i 'll give a reply... Jul 03 21:44:05 oh, just a huge, slow transfer Jul 03 21:44:14 Gnutoo: Yeah, I would have sworn that I saw real FR batteries for sale at $10 each somewhere Jul 03 21:44:22 wurp2, but what about the charger? Jul 03 21:44:42 But maybe I dreamed it. I definitely don't want to pay $49 for another pouch & headset just to get the extra battery Jul 03 21:44:49 Gnutoo: Was either BL-5C or BL-6C, I forgot Jul 03 21:44:50 Gnutoo: Doesn't FR ship with a charger? Jul 03 21:45:05 ScaredyCat: I'm watching your youtube video "New Theme for New 1973", two minutes of booting is far from exciting :P Jul 03 21:45:24 pulster has them for 19 euro, apparently Jul 03 21:45:49 LoneTech: Maybe that's what I was thinking of, but 19 euro >> $10 Jul 03 21:45:51 :-( Jul 03 21:45:56 yep Jul 03 21:46:16 Of course, I don't need any stinking 2 yr warranty or VAT Jul 03 21:46:55 wurp2, yes the charger is for freerunner not for the battery: if i have more than one battery(because the power management isn't so great) how do i charge them? if i use the freerunner i'd have to wait and change battery each time the battery has finished charging...and so that prevent me from charging all the batteries at night...and i plan to use the phone the day... Jul 03 21:47:44 Gnutoo: you could just get a usb cable and leave it plugged in at work Jul 03 21:47:58 until the battery life is better of course Jul 03 21:48:02 Gnutoo: I dunno, buy a junker compatible nokia phone to use as a charger? Jul 03 21:48:18 or a nokia-battery-compatible charger Jul 03 21:48:20 wurp2, that doesn't work either (for fr batteries) Jul 03 21:48:28 Qwell: Didn't know they made such Jul 03 21:48:30 mjr: :-( Jul 03 21:48:34 wurp2: probably don'y Jul 03 21:48:41 wurp2, ok i'll look for the nokia batteries Jul 03 21:48:45 But I was actually advising him on charging a nokia battery Jul 03 21:48:51 (sorry, at least for 1973 batteries, not sure about fr) Jul 03 21:48:54 in a nokia...yeah, that's a hack Jul 03 21:48:57 wurp2, well, yeah Jul 03 21:49:20 Hrm, I should dig through my old phones... I might even have a compatible battery Jul 03 21:49:23 And "charger" Jul 03 21:49:33 doc|work, but i don't even know how many time it would take to wait for a better battery life... Jul 03 21:49:57 Gnutoo: can you rephrase that please? Jul 03 21:50:32 Help us get http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release going and then you should have OK battery life (> 20 hours, anyway) Jul 03 21:50:46 hi. i want to creat a devel image. but this error occurs: NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2_2.6.24+git0+9250c1fc7d6f62075d14ad8f396748490a55d61e-r0: task do_fetch: failed Jul 03 21:50:46 i think its because of git fetch instead of clone Jul 03 21:50:52 doc|work, one year? less? Jul 03 21:51:19 doc|work, how long would it take to have a better battery life? Jul 03 21:51:43 Gnutoo: read what wurp2 said, and I'd think weeks, now that people are receiving phones and can help Jul 03 21:52:24 wurp2, good project, SHR, luck with that Jul 03 21:52:30 doc|work, wow!!! so i'll abandon the idea of buying more batteries...thanks a lot Jul 03 21:52:45 Gnutoo: hey, I'm not a dev, I'm just guessing :) Jul 03 21:52:53 mjr: thx :-) Jul 03 21:52:53 Gnutoo, 'course, realize it's guesswork. But I wouldn't guess very long either. Jul 03 21:53:04 mjr, ok Jul 03 21:53:32 Gnutoo: You can have good battery life (well, > 20 hours) right now if you install FSO Jul 03 21:53:39 wurp2, probably I shan't get into the low-level stuff, but I'll certainly be an interested tester Jul 03 21:53:49 wurp2, wow GREAT!!! thanks a lot Jul 03 21:53:55 Of course, you won't have anything but phone call functionality and sshd until you can piece together opkgs to give you other apps you want Jul 03 21:54:12 and suspend/resume on gsm Jul 03 21:54:20 and this is why I'm not too pushed about waiting :) Jul 03 21:54:53 wurp2, that's not a probelm...so openembedded build system doesn't work in FSO? Jul 03 21:55:05 If you do start the process of finding opkgs that work on FSO without breaking the stability, I'm very interested Jul 03 21:55:23 Gnutoo: It does, but there is no existing FSO image that has very much functionality Jul 03 21:55:31 That's not their goal on FSO Jul 03 21:55:39 It's just to build a stable backbone to put other apps on Jul 03 21:55:49 and one demo app (the dialer) Jul 03 21:55:51 LoneTech: rana is the newer version of pyroute - less functionality as of now, but doesn't try to load stupid POIs that take an age even when the server's working which it's not Jul 03 21:55:53 wurp2, ok wow...so i could build some cool images...because i used oe in the past Jul 03 21:56:07 Gnutoo: Then we need you on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release ! Jul 03 21:56:25 wurp2, ok Jul 03 21:56:28 what exactly is FSO and ASU? and is there more detail on the wiki on those? as well as like, build environment stuff? Jul 03 21:56:43 ojw_1: okay. Rana did start instantly, but it doesn't show a map and complains that I have no position. Time for a pos.txt, I reckon. Jul 03 21:56:43 If nothing else, you could advise _ferric, Ainulindale and I on OE issues Jul 03 21:56:48 where's qtopia? Jul 03 21:57:02 wurp2, but all what i did is build some image not make some pakage but i have some little experience with ebuilds...mabe it's similar Jul 03 21:57:45 nullpuppy: FSO: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework Jul 03 21:58:12 Gnutoo: OK, I don't think any of us have any real experience at all with OE Jul 03 21:58:32 wurp2, ok Jul 03 21:58:47 nullpuppy: ASU: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Feature_Plan Jul 03 21:59:09 wurp2: ah, there we are. tahnks ;) Jul 03 21:59:14 nullpuppy: Google "site:wiki.openmoko.org search term" will answer all :-) Jul 03 21:59:44 :) yeah, i should probably stop being lazy and do that ;) Jul 03 21:59:56 got an exception Jul 03 21:59:56 a good text on the whole fso/asu/etc thing: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 03 22:00:26 how many of the 850 are for sale? how are the 900 sold out in 1 day??? Jul 03 22:00:28 apparently my viewport was None. Jul 03 22:00:55 Railer: 325 Jul 03 22:00:57 Railer: there were no 900s available via the store Jul 03 22:01:00 Railer: at least - maybe. Jul 03 22:01:15 LoneTech: it should query gpsd if you have one running (though I don't on my PC so not much testing there). or you can replay a GPX tracklog - rename the example config module to mod_config.py and put a line in it line self.m.get('replayGpx').load('tracklog.gpx') Jul 03 22:01:22 Railer: see now we can only use ups? :( Jul 03 22:01:25 Railer: 325 is how many the quantity goes down to if you request 1000 in the basket Jul 03 22:01:38 Railer: so, how do you go about brokering these yourself? Jul 03 22:01:54 why only UPS? Jul 03 22:02:09 I'm looking for some help with the qemu environment Jul 03 22:02:10 Railer: because OM decided not to suck less this time around Jul 03 22:02:23 hm, now I get errors writing output from a bunch of rendering threads Jul 03 22:02:33 I got the qemu image to build just fine on ubuntu, but I'm getting a "No network" error message after it starts and it's completely unresponsive Jul 03 22:02:40 *still waiting for his new telephone.... *making an aggressive war in his flat... Jul 03 22:02:45 ojw: pos.txt worked enough to get a starting spot, at least Jul 03 22:02:50 LoneTech: apparently the rendering of vector data isn't great since our server changes this evening, so "menu (top-left, careful to click exactly rather than drag at all), map, mapnik" might work better than the default map layer Jul 03 22:03:15 not sure about the customs but you sending by air or ground? Jul 03 22:03:18 LoneTech: quick check your cache/images directory exists or create it if not Jul 03 22:03:21 ojw: looks like an internal error to me, does it need a cache directory or something? Jul 03 22:03:55 vinicius: pong Jul 03 22:04:06 that made it happier Jul 03 22:04:13 yeah it needs the cache directory I didn't add it to svn because svn complained too much that everything inside wasn't version-controlled Jul 03 22:04:37 Railer: was hoping to do it by whatever method's cheapest but it jumps from 25 to 113 or something Jul 03 22:04:50 cesarb: do you know of any brazilian group buying? Jul 03 22:04:56 LoneTech: got any map images yet? or just less errors? Jul 03 22:04:58 Railer: don't really want to spend 113 but it's 25 + fees which probably works out as about 100 Jul 03 22:05:44 ojw: less errors. it creates pngs but there's nothing in them. Jul 03 22:05:51 can anybody here help me or direct me to where I can go to get more information? Jul 03 22:06:15 vinicius: nope Jul 03 22:06:32 also, the map menu shows only the back arrow, no helpful mapnik button. Jul 03 22:06:56 damn... from the various source I could find we could get max 4-5 people :/ Jul 03 22:06:58 vinicius: in fact, I know of no other brazilian buying (and in fact, I'm not buying a GTA02 right now), but I've been really out of the loop for the past several weeks Jul 03 22:07:32 There was someone fro brazil in earlier asking Jul 03 22:07:52 if you have a mod_config.py (copy the example one if not) add " self.set('layer','mapnik')" to the def firstTimeInit(self): function to get mapnik tiles without using menu Jul 03 22:07:55 Okay... but i go to bed now... and dreaming of christmas in july? ;-) Jul 03 22:08:01 Sleep well, guys! Jul 03 22:08:03 still worrying that menu doesn't exist though :( Jul 03 22:08:08 wurp2, the thing i've done with oe is to try to build: 1)qemu target 2)openpma target but it was long time ago...basically i wanted a better build system for openpma...i built it but it didn't work because there was a bug in the kernel that prevented changing the compiler(modified gcc-2.95) for the userspace applications.. of course you could use an external compiler in oe but most of the apps didn't compile with gcc Jul 03 22:08:08 -2.95 Jul 03 22:08:48 Gnutoo: I see Jul 03 22:09:35 we think it's a "known problem" that the default map-rendering mysteriously stopped working this evening while we were changing all the server code and database that it depends on. a real coincidence... Jul 03 22:10:12 ojw_1: pffft, an upgrade breaking stuff? highly unlikely, practically unheard of in fact. Jul 03 22:10:17 yay, it draws! Jul 03 22:11:33 though using 80M memory is probably not optimal Jul 03 22:12:03 ojw_1: thanks for helping me get this started. I'll look at it some more. Jul 03 22:12:21 LoneTech: cool, glad that it works a little Jul 03 22:12:58 how fast did the 900Mhz phones get sold out? Jul 03 22:13:47 where can I find the european resellers? Jul 03 22:14:14 http://www.openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html Jul 03 22:14:20 apol: openmoko.com, buy, then click on resellers Jul 03 22:14:27 thx Jul 03 22:15:41 ConfidentiaL: there is angry debate on whether there were any stocks at all. Jul 03 22:15:53 Well - people have been mildly wondering. Jul 03 22:16:31 ... Jul 03 22:16:36 Probably the first batches of 900Mhz went to the european resellers. Which actually makes a bit of sense. Jul 03 22:17:10 Although thats mostly true if you are in europe ;) Jul 03 22:17:35 And not say Brazil - that wants 900 AIUI Jul 03 22:20:20 was it unexpected that FR was going to sell so well? Jul 03 22:20:34 torito: no Jul 03 22:20:36 negatory Jul 03 22:21:12 just the usual chaos Jul 03 22:21:50 I'd be worried about how front-loaded the sales are going to be Jul 03 22:22:00 front-loaded? Jul 03 22:22:02 Are these instructions from the wiki still accurate and applicable? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu Jul 03 22:22:09 It seems that there are a lot of people who have been wanting an FR, but what about after all those initial sales happen? Jul 03 22:22:20 ah, ok Jul 03 22:22:21 front loaded? Jul 03 22:22:33 well i'll be getting one in 2 weeks Jul 03 22:22:38 It would suck to ramp up production to try to get you through the first month based on the sales in the first week, only to discover that after 3 weeks it slows to a crawl Jul 03 22:22:46 some unis might want batches Jul 03 22:23:09 edistar_: Yeah, Steve had some interesting things to say a while back about alternate markets Jul 03 22:23:10 ebay them? Jul 03 22:25:51 wurp2: I'd hope om would have thought of that Jul 03 22:26:36 doc calling UPS Jul 03 22:27:12 hi Jul 03 22:27:15 small question: Jul 03 22:27:31 I can have a SIM card and microsd in the phone while flashing freerunner right? Jul 03 22:27:57 Jul 03 22:28:02 du du du du Jul 03 22:28:06 <_ferric> i did it with the gta01 last night, so i'm assuming you can do it with the 02 Jul 03 22:28:10 <_ferric> (flexd_) Jul 03 22:28:17 flexd_, sure Jul 03 22:28:25 da da da da Jul 03 22:28:45 doc|work: I'm sure that they did, but I don't know what they can do about it other than either make people wait because they underestimated or have overstock Jul 03 22:28:48 Oh - right, I thought I'd pinged out Jul 03 22:28:58 right, gonna flash my gta02 for the first time then :D Jul 03 22:29:16 FLASH! Jul 03 22:29:17 AHHHHH! Jul 03 22:29:32 He'll save every one of us! Jul 03 22:29:46 wurp2: yep :/ Jul 03 22:29:49 SpeedEvil: I thought you were just spamming us with Sting lyrics Jul 03 22:30:01 yarg that was successfull.. Jul 03 22:30:03 -l Jul 03 22:30:09 wurp2: hah Jul 03 22:30:11 "No DFU capable usb device found!" Jul 03 22:30:21 *tries his other linux box* Jul 03 22:30:32 can anybody help me? Jul 03 22:30:39 or point me to some documentation? Jul 03 22:30:40 or wait, maybe it needs to boot up first :d Jul 03 22:30:55 seg|ars: You want to install qemu? Jul 03 22:30:59 any classs B gprs experts in da house? Jul 03 22:31:00 * SpeedEvil watches you. Jul 03 22:31:09 I'd expect DFU code to sit in the boot monitor rather than the OS, personally. Jul 03 22:31:12 wurp2: yeah, I'm trying to test OpenMoko in qemu Jul 03 22:31:32 wurp2: I'm using the automatic Ubuntu build script and I can get it to boot, but it doesn't really work Jul 03 22:31:41 I get an error that says "No network" and the environment is completely unresponsive Jul 03 22:31:53 seg|ars: It may just be amazingly slow Jul 03 22:31:59 qemu was for me :-( Jul 03 22:32:11 how slow? I've had it open like this for about 15 minutes Jul 03 22:32:19 It was about that slow Jul 03 22:32:22 wow ok Jul 03 22:32:27 But I would expect to see a response about then Jul 03 22:32:34 so I should just leave it alone and give it more time? Jul 03 22:32:39 That was on a 700 MHz one-core box, mind you Jul 03 22:32:51 this is a quad-core 2.6ghz box with 5GB RAM Jul 03 22:32:58 seg|ars: I'm not sure. Based on those early experiences, I never use qemu any more Jul 03 22:33:20 seg|ars: Did you try a google search for openmoko qemu "no network"? Jul 03 22:33:23 argh Jul 03 22:33:28 yeah, I didn't get anything relevant from a google search Jul 03 22:33:36 what's the best way to do testing without an actual device? Jul 03 22:33:37 im getting "no capable DFU USB device found" on both machines :/ Jul 03 22:33:47 flexd_: sudo dfu-util? Jul 03 22:33:50 is there an easy way to start making themes? Jul 03 22:33:56 wurp2: i ran it as root Jul 03 22:34:02 seg|ars: quadcore won't help at all with qemu.. Jul 03 22:34:13 seg|ars: and it only uses as much ram as you tell it to Jul 03 22:34:19 flexd_: Does lsusb show your neo? Jul 03 22:34:20 one machine runs Linux Mint (ubuntu mod), other runs debian etch Jul 03 22:34:35 edistar_: so is there a way I can give it more resources to get better performance? Jul 03 22:34:43 wurp2: it doesnt show anything in particular Jul 03 22:34:45 (assuming that this is a performance problem at all) Jul 03 22:34:55 flexd_: Try it once w/o the neo, and once with, and compare Jul 03 22:34:58 it shows "Bus 001-004, all showing device 001, id 0000:0000 Jul 03 22:35:03 flexd_: It's not obvious Jul 03 22:35:05 seg|ars: afaik only a faster cpu would help.. 20ghz or so ;) Jul 03 22:35:09 k ill take it out and check Jul 03 22:35:16 lol Jul 03 22:35:22 edistar_: with 20secs battery? :) Jul 03 22:35:33 doc|work: for qemu Jul 03 22:35:38 this is what I'm getting http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9618/screenshot22gt3.png Jul 03 22:35:49 edistar_: ah Jul 03 22:35:54 * doc|work gets back in his box Jul 03 22:36:15 doc|work: good night ;) Jul 03 22:36:24 wurp2: eh it had turned itself off, silly thing Jul 03 22:36:41 there's more numbers (another entry) in lsusb now Jul 03 22:36:53 how do you guys test applications? Do you just use an actual device? Jul 03 22:36:56 so once the fr boots up im gonna try the flashing command Jul 03 22:37:05 still says the same thing Jul 03 22:38:06 flexd_: You're going to the uboot menu on the FR? Jul 03 22:38:11 Yes Jul 03 22:38:17 Holding down the aux when you power up? Jul 03 22:38:20 Am i supposed to select boot, or what am i supposed to do there? Jul 03 22:38:20 yes Jul 03 22:38:25 AUX, press power, release AUX Jul 03 22:38:26 seg|ars: That's how I do it, yeah Jul 03 22:38:33 ok Jul 03 22:38:38 so is there any way to do it without a device? Jul 03 22:39:04 flexd_: Ah, after that you push aux until "console over USB" or whatever is highlighted Jul 03 22:39:05 wurp2: what am i supposed to select in the NOR flash? Jul 03 22:39:11 ah Jul 03 22:39:12 flexd_: Then push power Jul 03 22:39:13 brb Jul 03 22:39:20 flexd_: *then* dfu-util Jul 03 22:39:30 * seg|ars sighs Jul 03 22:39:31 flexd_: That stuff should be on the wiki page on flashing... Jul 03 22:39:41 seg|ars: use qemu :-( Jul 03 22:39:49 bummer. I thought maemo was a pain in the ass. This makes maemo seem sane Jul 03 22:40:03 thanks for the help Jul 03 22:40:08 I guess I'll have to give up on this for now Jul 03 22:40:10 Sorry I wasn't much of one :-( Jul 03 22:40:13 i pressed "Set console to usb" Jul 03 22:40:23 and now it works :) Jul 03 22:40:28 There are people here who use qemu, just none of them are on/talking right now Jul 03 22:40:36 ok Jul 03 22:40:40 so it's at least possible? Jul 03 22:40:43 yep Jul 03 22:40:49 that's good to know Jul 03 22:40:50 And for some people it seems to work well Jul 03 22:40:58 I suspect that the instructions at the wiki are just terribly out of date or something Jul 03 22:41:08 I'm not sure if anyone with a device uses qemu... it's pretty easy to test directly on the device Jul 03 22:41:27 yeah, but there are a lot of people who wont want to buy a device until they have an opportunity to test the platform Jul 03 22:41:35 I've got qemu installed and semi-working... Jul 03 22:41:44 and there are developers who might want to port their applications to the platform without having to buy a device Jul 03 22:41:51 Xaos: how well does it work? Jul 03 22:42:05 seg|ars: no dev would ever seriously use qemu Jul 03 22:42:14 it boots up, but then I just get the "No Network" and 4 buttons on the bottom that don't do anything except highlight when I push them Jul 03 22:42:21 that's exactly what I get Jul 03 22:42:35 sounds like a wrong image Jul 03 22:42:38 How long does it take flashing the root fs? Usually? Jul 03 22:42:41 It's a 39Mb file i see :o Jul 03 22:42:49 got an idea on how to get the right image on there? Jul 03 22:42:50 flexd_: about 15 min Jul 03 22:43:07 flexd_: on the real device? Jul 03 22:43:16 Xaos, seg|ars: there's a flash.sh in the directory tree somewhere that could be helpful Jul 03 22:43:31 <_ferric> flexd_: or about 60 # signs :-) Jul 03 22:43:38 awesome :) Jul 03 22:43:47 * _ferric did it a bunch of times last night with FSO Jul 03 22:44:06 _ferric: heh Jul 03 22:44:11 gotten to 11 #'s atm Jul 03 22:44:20 I'm using the MokoMakefile...there's a "make flash-qemu-official" that I'm trying now after editing the Makefile to use the ASU Jul 03 22:44:21 <_ferric> flexd_: what hardware/image? Jul 03 22:44:29 doc you here? Jul 03 22:44:57 Xaos: I'm using the same MokoMakefile thing. What modifications did you make? Jul 03 22:45:11 Railer: I am, best to use my full nick though, 'doc' doesn't highlight for me, too many false positives :) Jul 03 22:45:32 seg: edit the Makefile and change to OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.stable Jul 03 22:45:41 I'm doing it now...don't know if it will work or not Jul 03 22:45:45 ok Jul 03 22:45:54 fwiw, that's what the image I tried in qemu does. apparently the download script chooses one which is this unhelpful Jul 03 22:45:54 ScaredyCat: Do you have your own image for the freerunner aswell? Or just 1973?, saw you had some stuff earlier Jul 03 22:46:06 cant remember the link for your page though :/ Jul 03 22:46:06 Xaos: what do I change to that? Jul 03 22:46:20 _ferric: What fso image were you using? Are you getting good results? Jul 03 22:46:23 open up the Makefile and you'll see it Jul 03 22:46:24 ok anyhow UPS Worldwide air throws in brokering for free, Jul 03 22:46:31 oh, there. Thanks! Jul 03 22:47:27 np...it erred out on me...digging deeper now Jul 03 22:47:28 <_ferric> wurp2: yes, worked great the one on http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ Jul 03 22:47:37 <_ferric> where great = made phone call, unable to hang up Jul 03 22:47:43 <_ferric> lost all value on cash card Jul 03 22:47:48 <_ferric> haha, except for the last part. Jul 03 22:48:30 _ferric: Couldnt you just turn the machine off? Jul 03 22:48:45 s/machine/phone Jul 03 22:48:49 <_ferric> yeah, ended up powering it down Jul 03 22:50:10 I pay by the month, hoping the phone wont hang and give me a $1000 bill or something, that would suck. Jul 03 22:50:31 woo flash done Jul 03 22:51:53 _ferric: Heh, IMO great != couldn't hang up Jul 03 22:52:06 the default image on the FR has an address book right? Jul 03 22:52:22 flexd_: I'm using the GoPhone account, so when I run out of money I don't get calls any more Jul 03 22:52:49 flexd_: I had the same problem with hanging up, and I assumed I was using the wrong FSO image Jul 03 22:53:52 Err right Jul 03 22:54:17 The latest image has.... nothing? It's identical to what came with the phone.. Bugger, i forgot to check what image it was :p Jul 03 22:55:01 seg|ars: I made that change to the Makefile, then did a "make flash-qemu-official" which downloaded crap and died... then did a "make flash-qemu-local" which is doing a bunch more crap...hasn't died yet Jul 03 22:55:13 ok cool Jul 03 22:55:27 does the FR tell you when you recieve sms? :/ Jul 03 22:56:07 yes Jul 03 22:56:15 Xaos: I made that modification to the makefile and now I'm doing a simple "make qemu". I guess I'll find out whether or not that works Jul 03 22:56:24 well, at least the default stack does, when it works :) Jul 03 22:56:41 mjr: My ScaredyCat image I'm using has problems with SMS Jul 03 22:57:09 Dunno if it's because of something specific to ScaredyCat or if it's a bug in the official repositories Jul 03 22:57:09 seg|ars: good luck! we'll find the right thing to do one of these days ;-) Jul 03 22:57:10 my oldish SC one doesn't, at least a lot Jul 03 22:57:33 Mine is from within the last month Jul 03 22:57:57 mjr: this one doesnt seem to Jul 03 22:58:06 unless im forgetting something, i just turned it on, sent it a sms Jul 03 22:58:20 What's the state of ASU these days? I see those big lists of tests, but haven't heard someone say "I can consistently make & receive calls" or the like Jul 03 22:59:08 remind me to slap my bank around a bit :/ Jul 03 22:59:49 Xaos: doing "make qemu" didn't work. Same problem as before Jul 03 23:00:17 still running on my flash-qemu-local Jul 03 23:00:40 woohoo, time to go home & start the long weekend Jul 03 23:00:47 Have fun Jul 03 23:01:00 * ajbrun is off to florida :D Jul 03 23:01:15 flexd_, well. I do not know how buggy the default image is, just saying it's part of a series that does alert you on sms... Jul 03 23:03:35 yeah i noticed Jul 03 23:03:44 seems i had to tick "autoregister with network" Jul 03 23:06:50 ok...gotta run now... Jul 03 23:07:30 oh, if you hadn't registered, that'd do it :] Jul 03 23:10:29 does OM use hal for suspend/resume? Jul 03 23:14:37 hi hi Jul 03 23:17:45 note to self: Jul 03 23:18:13 do not restart the networking service when this is the only thing keeping you online, and being able to connect to your linux server box without a monitor connected.... Jul 03 23:18:13 Railer: yep, but that's much more expensive Jul 03 23:18:24 It failed somehow and i could not connect to fix :( Jul 03 23:18:26 LoneTech: hah Jul 03 23:18:35 * doc|work has done that :o Jul 03 23:18:40 hello ^^ Jul 03 23:18:47 hello Jul 03 23:18:53 done what? Jul 03 23:19:18 sorry, must have missed the f on flexd Jul 03 23:19:26 l tab = LoneTech Jul 03 23:19:32 hehe Jul 03 23:19:40 a coworker of mine told me about the neo today and so I came in to check it out Jul 03 23:19:46 looks really intresting Jul 03 23:20:11 yup :) Jul 03 23:20:49 interesting is an appropriate word Jul 03 23:20:58 so is hopeful :P Jul 03 23:25:45 hmm.. when are the online orders expected to ship? Jul 03 23:26:11 probably monday now Jul 03 23:26:26 ah Jul 03 23:26:26 at the earliest Jul 03 23:26:33 so there might still be a chance I can change my shipping method :P Jul 03 23:26:41 did it just start to go on sale now? Jul 03 23:26:51 well not now but recently? Jul 03 23:26:58 kelvie_: heh, no idea, the US is closed tomorrow :) Jul 03 23:27:08 Princess^^: today for the US, last week for european resellers Jul 03 23:27:16 o Jul 03 23:27:23 wow I got good timing Jul 03 23:27:25 s/US/US and Canada Jul 03 23:27:37 does the openmoko work with WPA encryption? (using iwconfig) Jul 03 23:29:40 flexd: wpa_supplicant Jul 03 23:29:42 flexd: works Jul 03 23:30:04 my network uses WPA/WPA2 Personal TKIP/AES, dunno how im going to get it working with the neo Jul 03 23:30:07 alle zufrieden mit ihren freerunners? Jul 03 23:30:13 oops :) Jul 03 23:30:13 flexd: I don't have a FR yet, but WPA should require the wpa supplicant. Jul 03 23:30:25 so i would need to install wpa_supplicant? Jul 03 23:30:30 flexd: I saw instructions on setting up the supplicant, so I presume it works. Jul 03 23:31:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan aha Jul 03 23:32:26 woops, there is no editor on this heh. Silly me Jul 03 23:32:30 moof. Jul 03 23:34:27 ferric: i agree, i think my brain just stopped working. Jul 03 23:35:22 copying a file from my machine to freerunner... how? My brain has ceased working. Cannot think :( Jul 03 23:35:32 scp Jul 03 23:35:42 scp! Jul 03 23:35:49 oh. Jul 03 23:35:53 clever! Jul 03 23:35:55 flexd: or, send your free runner to me ..... Jul 03 23:36:01 hehe Jul 03 23:36:06 gmaxwell: Will you pay me $2000? :D Jul 03 23:36:20 flexd: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/File_transfer Jul 03 23:36:38 flexd: No. Jul 03 23:37:00 hi @ all Jul 03 23:38:26 gmaxwell: then i'm afraid no such thing can be done! Jul 03 23:38:44 hmph. Jul 03 23:38:58 i'd send you my nokia N80 for $399 though Jul 03 23:44:55 hmmm Jul 03 23:45:08 It just says "operation not supported" when trying to use wpa_supplicant :/ Jul 03 23:47:32 you root? Jul 03 23:49:10 gmaxwell: it's on the freerunner, so i assume so Jul 03 23:49:18 root@om-gta02 Jul 03 23:49:26 it says: Jul 03 23:49:44 ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported Jul 03 23:49:47 Failed to set encryption Jul 03 23:49:50 4 times Jul 03 23:50:26 kernel support issue? Jul 03 23:50:31 hmm dunno Jul 03 23:50:44 flexd: gta02? Jul 03 23:50:47 edistar: yes Jul 03 23:50:53 well, obvious answer.. Jul 03 23:50:53 sry Jul 03 23:50:54 ;) Jul 03 23:50:57 hm? :D Jul 03 23:51:04 broken! Jul 03 23:51:08 it worked for thomasg_ today Jul 03 23:51:25 HdR also managed iirc Jul 03 23:51:28 oh well... Jul 03 23:51:34 Im not exactly a linux professional Jul 03 23:51:39 no idea what to do Jul 03 23:52:01 edistar: HdR seems to have managed atleast, he wrote the GTA02_wlan page. Jul 03 23:52:08 (or atleast the startup script) Jul 03 23:52:12 flexd: yes Jul 03 23:53:53 quickfix: disable encryption so i can test! Jul 03 23:55:04 it's his fault Jul 03 23:55:09 * doc|work points Jul 03 23:55:23 doc|work: Your blaming raster!? :O Jul 03 23:55:34 flexd: iwconfig eth0 essid "whatever" && ifup eth0 thats it Jul 03 23:55:40 edistar: yup Jul 03 23:55:46 flexd: hehe Jul 03 23:56:03 * doc|work joking of course Jul 03 23:56:10 flexd: it works here Jul 03 23:56:16 edistar: weird Jul 03 23:56:25 btw, is it possible to edit files on the phone? Jul 03 23:56:28 * raster blames edistar Jul 03 23:56:30 directly, trough ssh Jul 03 23:56:38 * raster runs Jul 03 23:56:43 it's a default image, im guessing there's no editor Jul 03 23:56:52 raster: sneaky Jul 03 23:57:01 thaaat's better Jul 03 23:57:29 Anyway, what image should i flash it with? I want usability+programs! Jul 03 23:58:13 NOT asu then :) Jul 03 23:58:17 ^_^ Jul 03 23:58:35 It has the default image now (i'd assume, from the latest build folder), which doesnt contain much Jul 03 23:59:25 sort of editing stuff atm, but there's no editor on the phone. How does that work (i'm a bit of a linux noob, i can get around but not much more then that), should i install some sort of editor, or transfer files out and then edit or what? Jul 04 00:00:28 whats the largest minisd that people are using in the GTAs? Jul 04 00:00:45 yay, they let me cancel the order and re-order it with a new shipping method Jul 04 00:00:51 gmaxwell: 8G has been reported working Jul 04 00:01:51 gmaxwell: I personally use a 4G Jul 04 00:02:16 not mini, incidentally Jul 04 00:02:27 don't buy a mini, you'll just get angry :) Jul 04 00:03:04 wow.. and it's only 25 bucks for a 4G Jul 04 00:03:10 not mini? is it not mini? is it micro or something? Jul 04 00:03:16 micro. Jul 04 00:03:21 thats why itsw silly to ship with flash on the device Jul 04 00:03:24 (I have a gta01 here I should know..) Jul 04 00:03:29 just ship with a micro-sd slot Jul 04 00:03:33 gmaxwell: I'm using 8gb microSD at the moment Jul 04 00:03:37 and let users buy their flahs - however much they want Jul 04 00:03:47 edistar: have you tried the fr as a mp3 player? :D Jul 04 00:03:53 flexd: not yet Jul 04 00:04:00 micro SDHC is the same thing, right? Jul 04 00:04:08 flexd: I'm working on debian at the moment, but the screen calibration is bothering me atm Jul 04 00:04:10 I was thinking 8gb microsd + headset = new mp3 player! Jul 04 00:04:16 n8gb microsd in your neo's???? Jul 04 00:04:18 NICE! Jul 04 00:04:25 I think i broke wget :( Jul 04 00:04:25 flexd: + 5 extra batteries Jul 04 00:04:32 edistar: haha Jul 04 00:04:33 http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-Card-SDSDQ-8192-Package/dp/B0012Y2LLE?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207404947&sr=8-1 Jul 04 00:04:37 ^ check that out Jul 04 00:04:38 edistar: true, but if it lasts a day of school its nice :) Jul 04 00:04:47 trying to wget tangogps Jul 04 00:04:55 and it just stops after saying its connecting :/ Jul 04 00:04:59 flexd, all >2GB "SD" cards are SDHC to be exact Jul 04 00:05:09 ah Jul 04 00:05:14 amazon only ships to the states :( Jul 04 00:05:14 mjr: i didnt say anything about SDHC. Jul 04 00:05:16 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13305 Jul 04 00:05:18 I did Jul 04 00:06:02 At $34 for 8gb I'm wondering when the 16gb will be out. ;) Jul 04 00:07:04 hmmm Jul 04 00:07:14 buildhost is giving 404's on opkg update :( Jul 04 00:12:59 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r3fb5ce066a4d 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (gpsdevice.py nmea.py): Jul 04 00:12:59 freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Fix parsing of NMEA sentences. We now send out PositionChanged and Jul 04 00:12:59 freesmartphone.org: AccuracyChanged signals. Warning, the parser still makes some weird assumptions Jul 04 00:12:59 freesmartphone.org: like we always have a fix... Jul 04 00:23:17 skjera? Jul 04 00:24:45 i dont know :) Jul 04 00:25:43 go go 30dB gain :D Jul 04 00:25:46 whee Jul 04 00:28:02 Dave: external antenna? Jul 04 00:28:23 can it be a problem to flash a freerunner with an image for 1973? Jul 04 00:28:34 Yes, it won't work Jul 04 00:28:40 k, thx Jul 04 00:28:56 i forgot to change the makefile :) Jul 04 00:30:10 but nor-flash cant be harmed, can it? Jul 04 00:30:18 No. Jul 04 00:30:23 k, thx Jul 04 00:30:35 then i have to make a new build Jul 04 00:30:36 However, I haven't confirmed that there is a valid recovery image in the shipped NOR. Jul 04 00:30:45 I mean - I don't know Jul 04 00:31:05 k, then i should not reboot the fr Jul 04 00:31:44 it can be harmed, you can take a hammer to it or something Jul 04 00:31:45 bastian_: uboot shouldn't be bothered if you flash rootfs Jul 04 00:32:03 and what about kernel? Jul 04 00:32:10 neither that Jul 04 00:32:21 k, thx Jul 04 00:32:38 Oh sorry. Jul 04 00:32:43 np Jul 04 00:32:50 Yeah. I was thinking you meant uboot for some reason. Jul 04 00:32:53 flashing those has no effect on the ability of the nand uboot to flash yet other ones Jul 04 00:33:47 Hello Speedy :) Jul 04 00:33:53 aevin, indeed :D Jul 04 00:34:09 Fucking nighttime satellites. :[ Jul 04 00:34:26 They always seem to be *just* out of reach... Jul 04 00:34:33 Dave: gps? Jul 04 00:34:42 Affirmative. Jul 04 00:34:50 I can't get a fix either Jul 04 00:35:01 Well having no problem right now. Jul 04 00:35:06 you should work outside :) Jul 04 00:35:07 with the antenna it's cheap :P Jul 04 00:35:11 no need :D Jul 04 00:35:31 is ts handled by glamo in the gta02? Jul 04 00:35:58 does the gps work inside? or do you have an external antenna? Jul 04 00:36:33 bastian_, gta01 gps worked inside for me.. depends on the building. :) Jul 04 00:37:26 Near a window it can be fine. Jul 04 00:37:35 Yeah, higher tends to be better from my experience Jul 04 00:37:44 (it can also simply mean, less stuff in the way, to the outside) :P Jul 04 00:38:01 but so far my experience with the gps has been flaky Jul 04 00:38:20 raster: do you know if ts is handled by glamo? Jul 04 00:38:22 It's also been highly inaccurate Jul 04 00:38:28 erratic Jul 04 00:38:35 HELO raster Jul 04 00:38:54 edistar: touchscreen? Jul 04 00:39:01 Dave: mo Jul 04 00:39:10 raster: yes Jul 04 00:39:14 well yes Jul 04 00:39:19 but glamo uses tslib Jul 04 00:39:26 and that just reads what the kernel device tells it Jul 04 00:39:36 raster: I am trying to calibrate it but it doesn't work Jul 04 00:39:44 I'm trying to get debian to work Jul 04 00:40:10 umm the ts is calibrated by default on OE Jul 04 00:40:14 is that the reason, why in landscape mode the touches are not, where they should be (at least in the default image) Jul 04 00:40:21 comes with default calibration settings that work properly Jul 04 00:40:37 bastian_: it doesnt handle rotate properly - correct Jul 04 00:40:46 I used the values in /etc/pointercal and fed them to the debian /etc/pointercal, but that doesn't work Jul 04 00:40:48 Correct. Jul 04 00:40:49 right now that isnt on the spec list for asu thus not bing fixed by us Jul 04 00:42:02 is the tslib for gta02 different that for gta01? (sorry if that's a stupid question) Jul 04 00:42:02 another question: where are the contacts etc saved in the default image. i tried to google, but didn't find anything informative Jul 04 00:42:03 * Dave hopes Joerg gets better soon. Jul 04 00:42:14 poor guy Jul 04 00:42:33 me? Jul 04 00:43:02 all your base? Jul 04 00:43:40 would be the best Jul 04 00:44:04 i don't want to enter any contact if i just check another image Jul 04 00:44:30 bastian_: they are not Jul 04 00:44:44 does anybody here have an asu image working in qemu? Jul 04 00:46:18 for gta01 or 02? Jul 04 00:46:29 qemu Jul 04 00:46:29 if for 01 i could have one Jul 04 00:46:52 is there a big difference? Jul 04 00:47:09 qemu would take gta01 images I suppose Jul 04 00:47:32 I'm just trying to get an environment for testing applications Jul 04 00:47:41 I'm not having much luck Jul 04 00:47:51 i just finished building one for 01 (cause i forgot to change to 02) Jul 04 00:48:04 if you like, i could give you that Jul 04 00:48:26 ok Jul 04 00:48:42 qemu development usually lags behind.. Jul 04 00:49:00 right now, this is pretty much all I can get working: http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9618/screenshot22gt3.png Jul 04 00:49:04 and now nearly everyone interested will have a gta02, why bother Jul 04 00:49:06 it doesn't seem to do much of anything else Jul 04 00:49:38 seg|ars: lol, that doesn't look like ASU at all ;) Jul 04 00:49:43 bloody hell Jul 04 00:49:45 haha Jul 04 00:49:50 must be a really old image Jul 04 00:50:18 do you have any suggestions on what I can do to get something that works and is current? Jul 04 00:51:02 k, how do you want to get it? Jul 04 00:51:37 bastian_: you have a more recent image I could try with qemu? Jul 04 00:51:50 i didn't try it Jul 04 00:52:20 buildhost.openmoko.org Jul 04 00:52:23 and i'm honest, i didn't flash a qemu Jul 04 00:52:35 i just flashed the fr about 4 times Jul 04 00:52:49 ah Jul 04 00:52:49 is there a difference? Jul 04 00:52:50 :D Jul 04 00:53:12 seg|ars: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080703/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080703-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 04 00:53:15 try that one Jul 04 00:53:17 Does a cat wear pajamas? Jul 04 00:53:23 that's the newest ASU image Jul 04 00:53:28 edistar: thanks Jul 04 00:54:06 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080702/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080702-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 04 00:54:11 that's the latest for gta01 Jul 04 00:54:14 try both Jul 04 00:54:18 maybe you're lucky Jul 04 00:55:37 are the images in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080704/ for milestone1? Jul 04 00:56:09 bastian_: milestone1 is FSO, that's something different Jul 04 00:58:55 The FSO hangs for me on my GTA01. Jul 04 00:59:03 It is sitting at "Please wait...". Jul 04 00:59:12 I did reboot once, as suggested on the page, to no avail. Jul 04 01:00:37 I can SSH in, though. Jul 04 01:00:45 icky, qtopia hybrid :x Jul 04 01:01:14 Muwahahaha, signal strength = bangin. Jul 04 01:01:40 what is the boot speed of a gta02? Jul 04 01:01:40 * raster bangs Jul 04 01:01:45 :D Jul 04 01:01:49 benlake: SCHLOOOOOOW Jul 04 01:01:52 benlake, rather quick. Jul 04 01:01:57 on the device that is :P Jul 04 01:02:01 Dave vs. raster: FIGHT! Jul 04 01:02:05 BEGIN! Jul 04 01:02:05 hahaha Jul 04 01:02:06 :P Jul 04 01:02:08 ROUND 1 Jul 04 01:02:11 it takes forever to boot Jul 04 01:02:24 raster, would you like some cheese to go with your whine? Jul 04 01:02:35 * benlake likes cheese Jul 04 01:02:37 :P Jul 04 01:02:53 go go gadget gprs! Jul 04 01:02:55 whee Jul 04 01:02:59 Dave: its true Jul 04 01:03:04 not a whine Jul 04 01:03:08 answer to a question Jul 04 01:03:11 Yeah yeah :) Jul 04 01:03:18 If the "SDIO Helper" is in state D, is this something to worry about? Jul 04 01:03:30 I thought it was slow, but then I was informed how similarly slow similar smartphones take :P Jul 04 01:03:41 Yeah it does take a while though :) Jul 04 01:03:56 that's a shame Jul 04 01:03:58 NEEDZ MOAR COREZ! Jul 04 01:04:16 (I'm currently waiting forever for the FSO milestone 1 to boot.) Jul 04 01:04:26 You require additional pylons. Jul 04 01:04:28 my motorola roker e16 - qt/e + linux takes about 20 seconds to boot to full usable gui Jul 04 01:04:39 I apologized about the boot time to people I was showing the GTA01 to and was told their phones took longer.. and I realized that my bberry did too, a lot longer when coming from a cold boot. Jul 04 01:04:39 Nice. Jul 04 01:04:54 right Jul 04 01:04:57 N95 Jul 04 01:05:01 oh well, then maybe it is not too much of a shame Jul 04 01:05:20 and freerunner takes about 140 seconds Jul 04 01:05:22 to do the same Jul 04 01:05:31 Then again.. with working power management I only see my bberry boot once a month or so after it acts weird and I pull the battery. Jul 04 01:05:33 Yikes :p Jul 04 01:05:46 Freerunner boots you! Jul 04 01:05:56 haha, stupid boots... ~_~ Jul 04 01:06:02 so power management is sketchy? Jul 04 01:06:09 It's still coming along :) Jul 04 01:06:14 with working power management u shouldnt need to boot often Jul 04 01:06:16 like EVERYTHING ELSE. Jul 04 01:06:17 nless u fly a lot Jul 04 01:06:19 how about this, in normal use how often does one need to cold boot? :) Jul 04 01:06:23 benlake Well gta01 is pretty much a lost cause. Jul 04 01:06:23 \then it will piss u off Jul 04 01:06:36 benlake: at most once or twice a day? Jul 04 01:06:38 raster, the bberry "off" is not at all the same as pulling the battery.. Jul 04 01:06:42 in comparison.. my iPod Touch takes 30-40 seconds to boot at least :/ Jul 04 01:06:43 or never. Jul 04 01:06:43 :D Jul 04 01:06:44 awe :( Jul 04 01:06:47 sometimes longer Jul 04 01:06:54 Hello Kelvie Jul 04 01:06:56 bberry is up in about 30 seconds .. but if you pull the battery you're looking at 3-4 minutes. Jul 04 01:07:08 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r9cbbcf928621 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Initial support for parsing UBX packets Jul 04 01:07:10 30 seconds from warm? Jul 04 01:07:35 gmaxwell: dont care about the blackberry. i care about the freerunner Jul 04 01:07:36 :) Jul 04 01:07:47 and comparing a blackberry with a com[pletely different os and hardware Jul 04 01:07:58 Is totally logical... :P Jul 04 01:08:02 *smirks* Jul 04 01:08:02 and then a slower bit of hw using linux vis another faster on using linux... Jul 04 01:08:03 :) Jul 04 01:08:04 "Please wait..." I'm told by my GTA01 running FSO milestone 1. Jul 04 01:08:10 yup Jul 04 01:08:12 we should be able to boot in 20 seconds or less Jul 04 01:08:14 It's booting. Jul 04 01:08:17 a full boot Jul 04 01:08:18 that's like not comparing a panzer to an abrams raster :P Jul 04 01:08:18 BRACE YOURSELF! Jul 04 01:08:21 i'd aim for 10 seconds Jul 04 01:08:24 haha Jul 04 01:08:28 It's been booting for 6m. Jul 04 01:08:35 Nothing's in top except top and dropbear. Jul 04 01:08:35 raster: cold boot? Jul 04 01:08:41 paulproteus, 6 minutes? You're hosed. ;) Jul 04 01:08:46 edistar: is there any other kind of boot? Jul 04 01:08:51 theres boot Jul 04 01:08:54 there is unuspend Jul 04 01:08:59 the comparison is on the outcome, a smart phone vs a smartphone... a tank vs. a tank :P Jul 04 01:09:02 there is "it wasnt even shut down" Jul 04 01:09:09 raster: yeah.. just wondering, 10 sec is very optimistic Jul 04 01:09:10 whether it is made of cheese or steel! Jul 04 01:09:18 raster: you'd have to make everything static Jul 04 01:09:18 The moooooooon! Jul 04 01:09:20 gmaxwell, Yeah, I can re-flash it, but I just flashed it, got here, waiting two minutes, rebooted, and got here again. Jul 04 01:09:31 edistar: not at all. i've got linux to boot to X11 with opengl running in 1.6 seconds Jul 04 01:09:38 woot? Jul 04 01:09:39 gawd Jul 04 01:09:42 admittedly a laptop Jul 04 01:09:46 but it can be done Jul 04 01:09:47 paulproteus, I got stuck in that state once and couldn't get it working again until I did a flash erase. Jul 04 01:09:53 gmaxwell, Great, I'll flash erase. Jul 04 01:09:53 I'd hate to see a riced-out FR. Jul 04 01:09:55 :P Jul 04 01:09:59 Thanks for the tip! Jul 04 01:10:03 oh yeah, that GTA01 bug? Jul 04 01:10:06 edistar: no - no need to make everything static Jul 04 01:10:15 paulproteus, hope it solves it for you.. I think I wasted 6 hours on it once. ;) Jul 04 01:10:22 just stop doing everything AT boot Jul 04 01:10:30 defer stuff to "on demand" Jul 04 01:10:31 or later Jul 04 01:10:41 eg dont probe the wifi device before starting init Jul 04 01:10:45 do it later when u need wifi Jul 04 01:10:49 i emake wifi a module Jul 04 01:10:51 raster, then it can be like windows.. GUI up soon, but everything busted and chugging hard for the next 5 minutes. ;) Jul 04 01:10:53 same with bluetooth Jul 04 01:10:57 same with basically everything Jul 04 01:11:10 gmaxwell: no. it doesnt Jul 04 01:11:28 if u have ever dug into the glorious mess that is sysvinit that linux uses Jul 04 01:11:34 u'd begin to know why it is so slow Jul 04 01:11:38 its not optimised Jul 04 01:11:40 streamlines Jul 04 01:11:44 edistar: thanks for the image link. I have something that actually works now! :-D Jul 04 01:11:44 nor is it dependency-based Jul 04 01:11:46 raster, because its all freeking sequential for one.. Jul 04 01:11:46 VICTORY Jul 04 01:11:47 nor "on demand" Jul 04 01:11:51 seg|ars: cool Jul 04 01:11:57 sqeuential is part of it Jul 04 01:11:59 Huzzah! Jul 04 01:12:04 the other is nasty arse shell scripts Jul 04 01:12:08 Victory? So, I defeated raster? :P Jul 04 01:12:12 doing lots of logic in shell by listing directories Jul 04 01:12:16 touchign files Jul 04 01:12:20 and so on is just wrong Jul 04 01:12:23 yeah you'd like that :p Jul 04 01:12:31 * Dave laughs Jul 04 01:12:43 you want to make the boot process use eet? ;) Jul 04 01:12:45 too much is done on boot that can just be done later too Jul 04 01:12:48 selinux stinks, and that slows everything down, especially boot. Jul 04 01:12:55 edistar: did i say that? Jul 04 01:13:01 why would i want it to use eet? Jul 04 01:13:02 raster: no Jul 04 01:13:08 but just wait, SOMEBODY will want to put selinux on the FR. Jul 04 01:13:12 what is the logical connection there? Jul 04 01:13:13 mwester, you know you want an EAL4 CELL PHONE. ;) Jul 04 01:13:20 raster: messed things up, sry Jul 04 01:13:39 ok, here is what I have now: http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1438/screenshot23en5.png does that even remotely resemble what ships on the phone? Jul 04 01:14:09 seg|ars: thats ASU Jul 04 01:14:10 seg|ars: that's ASU alright Jul 04 01:14:12 it doesnt ship yet Jul 04 01:14:16 ok Jul 04 01:14:18 seg|ars: gut the phone ships with gtk image Jul 04 01:14:24 Does it work, though? Jul 04 01:14:33 the freerunner ships with the gtk image? Jul 04 01:14:37 Whats ASU? (I tuned out for the last few months) where can I read about it? Jul 04 01:14:54 seg|ars: yes, it was to late to change Jul 04 01:14:55 ~asu Jul 04 01:14:58 oh Jul 04 01:15:22 gmaxwell: check mickeyls blog Jul 04 01:15:24 so when does the asu get rolled out to users? Jul 04 01:15:26 (useless bot - has lots to say, but when you need an easy definition, of course it lacks it) Jul 04 01:15:31 seg|ars: you can get it now Jul 04 01:15:50 ~faq Jul 04 01:15:51 hmm... faq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ Jul 04 01:15:54 ok, so the phone comes with the gtk stuff and users can choose to update to the ASU? Jul 04 01:16:08 seg|ars: yes Jul 04 01:16:50 gmaxwell, http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ explains it all. Jul 04 01:16:57 And feel free to bug me off-channel about things too. Jul 04 01:17:06 ok so is it usable at all with the gtk stack Jul 04 01:17:14 or will users have to update to asu if they want to use it as a phone? Jul 04 01:17:31 seg|ars: you can phone with all current images Jul 04 01:17:48 do they all have working address books as well? Jul 04 01:17:48 does sms work etc? Jul 04 01:17:52 or phone books, rather Jul 04 01:18:00 ohh.. qtopia ported to x11? spiffy Jul 04 01:18:13 and unstable. :) Jul 04 01:18:15 Yup. One day the backend of it might get retargeted to FSO. Jul 04 01:18:34 gmaxwell, You have a GTA01? What (if anything) are you running on it? Jul 04 01:19:27 Every month or two I update it to whatever the latest OM gtk image is .. use it for a bit.. then when the battery inevitably ends up so dead that charging it is a pain I forget about it for a while. :) Jul 04 01:19:42 Ah, right, that issue. (-: Jul 04 01:19:54 I wonder if FreeRunner is better about that. Jul 04 01:20:20 paulproteus, I think thats 'solved' due to the AC adaptor which I presume always high current charges. Jul 04 01:22:30 * paulproteus nods Jul 04 01:22:49 Okay, nand erased for rootfs & kernel, re-flashed; reboot! Jul 04 01:23:02 paulproteus, good luck! Jul 04 01:24:28 gmaxwell, Maybe I'll see you when I come visit DC in a week and a half. (-: Jul 04 01:24:43 * paulproteus Please Wait...s Jul 04 01:24:49 OMG YES Jul 04 01:24:51 hehe Jul 04 01:25:03 paulproteus, now don't you feel silly sitting at that screen for 6 minutes? Jul 04 01:25:05 "no dbus" at the top-right, it tellsme Jul 04 01:26:18 :P Jul 04 01:26:42 paulproteus: boot again Jul 04 01:26:47 Will do. Jul 04 01:26:53 Is there a way to reboot from FSO? Jul 04 01:26:58 Gracefully, without SSH, I mean. Jul 04 01:27:04 paulproteus: yeah, take out the battery Jul 04 01:27:08 Zing. Jul 04 01:27:22 paulproteus: that's what mickeyl told me to do :) and he should know, he wrote it ;) Jul 04 01:28:03 * paulproteus sshs in Jul 04 01:28:19 anyone know off hand about how long it takes to charge the battery from a 500ma source? Jul 04 01:28:30 ieatlint: I guess ca 3h Jul 04 01:29:10 know if it can run off external power only? (eg, so as to hotswap the battery) Jul 04 01:29:23 External power only doesn't seem to work on GTA01. Jul 04 01:30:10 * paulproteus please waits again Jul 04 01:30:28 SIM PIN? Jul 04 01:30:31 The SIM has no PIN. Jul 04 01:30:39 hehe, well, should all be fun to deal with... i'm pretty used to things working half-assed with a vague promise of it getting better :) Jul 04 01:31:09 * paulproteus re-reboots Jul 04 01:31:24 This time not by SSH, but by the mickeyl method. Jul 04 01:33:11 SIM PIN? now. Jul 04 01:33:13 Hmmph. Jul 04 01:36:15 Same question with a different (also pinless) SIM. Jul 04 01:38:30 Oh, huh, after I cancelled it, the question went away. Jul 04 01:38:37 Maybe it just asks that during network registration. Jul 04 01:38:51 FSO is in fact bare-bones. I now believe how bare-bones I've been told it is. Jul 04 01:39:01 paulproteus, yea, thats what I think I did with mine.. it stops asking you.. Jul 04 01:40:02 Humorously hanging up doesn't work. Jul 04 01:40:30 Still, not a bad show for a couple month's work! Jul 04 01:48:01 wurp2|away, ferric, I'd like to talk with you about http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 04 01:52:21 (uh-oh, wurp2|away is in trouble!) Jul 04 01:57:08 anybody an idea why bluetooth keyboards aren't working on openmoko in debian? Jul 04 01:57:29 on the console the keyboard runs, but some keys are not recognized (e as example) Jul 04 01:58:07 on the xserver _nothing_ happens, even if i create an inputdevice (keyboard with kbd driver) and add it to the server layout.. Jul 04 02:14:01 hello, here it is said that the usb host is 500mA http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner and here it is said that it works at 100 mA http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone Jul 04 02:28:56 anyone here from australia? Jul 04 02:29:51 alphabeat, a few .. :-) Jul 04 02:30:59 you in on the aus-wide group purchase? Jul 04 02:31:54 i guess i blew me purchace Jul 04 02:33:39 alphabeat, nope .. is there a link? Jul 04 02:36:05 paulproteus, gmaxwell: Maybe you should install http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script Jul 04 02:37:30 wurp2|away, Cool, but I'd rather talk about the old-apps-on-FSO project. (-: Jul 04 02:37:53 I wonder if we can easily package this for opkg. Jul 04 02:38:04 paulproteus: Sounds good. Sorry, I wsa reading the backlog. Jul 04 02:38:10 No prob! Jul 04 02:39:06 I kept asking mickey why someone wasn't doing this (SHR) Jul 04 02:39:37 His answer was, everyone else is too busy? Jul 04 02:39:44 And he said someone should, and pointed out that you could just build a phonekit-to-ophoned adapter, so finally today I got off my duff and started it Jul 04 02:40:02 Yeah, I knew he & his little group was too busy Jul 04 02:40:28 But I thought someone from OM could take the relatively small amount of time it *seems* like it should take Jul 04 02:40:29 * paulproteus nods and listens Jul 04 02:40:43 But, hey, if you want something done... Jul 04 02:41:17 So I'm not sure I have much more to say that isn't on the wiki Jul 04 02:41:30 IMO the first step is to get a good FSO image running from our repo Jul 04 02:41:33 hey guys Jul 04 02:41:39 Hey now roh. Jul 04 02:41:42 * mwester hides Jul 04 02:42:01 hey roh Jul 04 02:42:05 Then build a phonekit stub that openmoko2-dialer (or whatever the name is) can pretend to connect to Jul 04 02:42:06 wurp2|away, I agree - the first thing to do is just cone the current branch and have a repeatable build system. Jul 04 02:42:08 Hi roh Jul 04 02:42:11 about your project... i think youre overshooting the goal by soundling like 'we need to fork' Jul 04 02:42:29 I see it more as a branch than a fork. But can you explain what you mean? Jul 04 02:42:32 but i see your goal and like it. Jul 04 02:42:45 roh: If we can get away without it, that would be great. I want to minimize what we're doing Jul 04 02:42:51 Hopefully, as FSO people get interested in this, our branch would get rebased and disappears into FSO. Jul 04 02:42:59 eventually you should just do it where the main fun happens. in the repos we have. here is what i suggest: Jul 04 02:42:59 * mwester thinks the community needs commit rights, whatever you call it (fork or whatever) Jul 04 02:43:09 I fished around for suggestions of how we could go about just labelling, or just branching specific files, but got no feel-good answers Jul 04 02:43:18 * wurp2 listens. Jul 04 02:43:31 you start hacking and coding, and i will see that there is a milestone in trac, where you can organize tickets in Jul 04 02:43:48 roh, in the fso trac? I'm sold. Jul 04 02:43:56 also about commit-rights.. thats quite easy. currently 2007.2 is basically unmaintained Jul 04 02:44:22 So any development would really be the only branch, anyway? (-: Jul 04 02:44:23 paulproteus i dunno for sure. Jul 04 02:44:28 Sure, but basically. Jul 04 02:45:41 the point is: we are currently thinking about reorganizing the buildprocess anyways.. so i would say we should a) see to get less distro-trees b) have a branch where the man with the hat for the branch commits stuff to. Jul 04 02:46:04 roh: Just to make sure I understand: are you suggesting we commit to the 2007.2 tree? Jul 04 02:46:14 That's in svn, right? Jul 04 02:46:22 or I can just keep listening until you're done with your point :-) Jul 04 02:46:28 but the main point is: 2007.2 apps are in the main svn, but unmaintained. if somebody steps up and basically claims maintainership by doing real work i see not why we should hinder that. Jul 04 02:47:01 my only concern about that all is: i do not see reason for 'forking' or cluttering stuff even more than it currently is. Jul 04 02:47:17 Okay, I can agree with that. Jul 04 02:47:25 * jeffszusz tries to make sense of the convo Jul 04 02:47:25 on the contrary, we need to get better oversight. and thats not what happens by using more different repos Jul 04 02:47:26 roh: Sounds great! Jul 04 02:47:42 Now as far as build process, we'd still use the git OE repos and improve the bitbake files there? Jul 04 02:47:44 * mwester notes that he currently has a rather poor attitude about OM branches and commits, and steps out of the conversation. :( Jul 04 02:47:48 ok. finally home, now to try and put together a build environment ;) Jul 04 02:47:57 We'd just make our own branch in that central OM git repo? Jul 04 02:47:57 i dunno for sure, but atm i think we do a daily build of gta01 and gta02 org.openmoko.dev Jul 04 02:48:06 the asu branch as well.. Jul 04 02:48:11 * jeffszusz didn't know there were forks/branches in OM Jul 04 02:48:13 So what do we do to get permission to check stuff into 2007.2? Jul 04 02:48:21 but i dunno who even uses these image (non-asu, old gtk based) or if they work at all. Jul 04 02:48:28 Right. Jul 04 02:48:44 dvarnes: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Group_Sales_Australia Jul 04 02:48:54 roh: They didn't work 3 weeks ago, then about 2 weeks ago someone said they (mostly) worked, but I dunno that they're maintained at all, as you say Jul 04 02:49:03 wurp2 submit patches. i mean.. the recipe for the 2007.11 stuff should have a fixed svnrev, so even if you would break it it should even have the old states. Jul 04 02:49:08 s/They/2007.2/ Jul 04 02:49:09 wurp2 meant: roh: 2007.2 didn't work 3 weeks ago, then about 2 weeks ago someone said they (mostly) worked, but I dunno that they're maintained at all, as you say Jul 04 02:50:04 so i suggest: start hacking, start mailing patches.. i see that we clear up the repo as well as buildhost-situation. Jul 04 02:50:06 alphabeat, yep .. already sent message to simon mathews with inquiry Jul 04 02:50:28 roh: OK, I'm very familiar with svn, and I have some experience with darcs and a knowledge of arch (RCSs like git) Jul 04 02:50:37 But I dunno how we would work off an svn tree Jul 04 02:50:41 wurp2, IMHO we should use a git-svn repository to work on our patches then. Jul 04 02:50:42 and easily share changes with one another Jul 04 02:50:49 That is quite feasible. Jul 04 02:50:56 its a 2-part story.. one part is basic distribution-building work (means should happen in a branch or head on git) Jul 04 02:50:59 Another thing is to try quilt. Jul 04 02:51:00 then submit patches once we're happy to whoever to merge into main tree Jul 04 02:51:12 I have to run in a minute, I'm very sorry to say! Jul 04 02:51:13 the other part is porting and changing applications, which should happen where the app lives. Jul 04 02:51:16 roh: Ah, I'm familiar with how to do it (basically) in git Jul 04 02:51:29 roh, Yes, re: distribution work: would we get a branch in the main OM git then? Jul 04 02:51:35 That would be fantastic. Jul 04 02:51:51 And I *really* appreciate you stepping in here. Jul 04 02:51:56 i think that it would be the best way to do this. Jul 04 02:52:12 dvarnes: might be a little late. i think he bought a few as overhead so you might be lucky :) we bought 60 but only needed 53 or something Jul 04 02:52:27 OK, I saw svn sneak in there for a bit, now we're talking about git again... which parts are git and which are svn? Jul 04 02:52:34 svn for apps; git for OE work Jul 04 02:53:15 paulproteus: And you said quilt is a tool to help us share changes in our group, then create patches to submit to the main svn? Jul 04 02:53:15 Email patches for apps, and get them in a state to use the FSO backend that way, sharing work between us before they're ready for submission using git-svn. Jul 04 02:53:16 git for OE work - we'd get a branch in the OM git. Jul 04 02:53:16 That's what I understand. Jul 04 02:53:26 wurp2, Yes, quilt is an alternative to git-svn in this workflow. Jul 04 02:53:27 We meet again, Mr. Wurp. Jul 04 02:53:38 wurp2: Ah, I think I prefer git-svn Jul 04 02:53:41 I think so too. Jul 04 02:53:41 Dave: howdy Jul 04 02:53:52 Howdy ya'll Jul 04 02:54:06 So we work in git, get it how we like it, then we create a patch Jul 04 02:54:14 keeping our git in sync w/ svn via git-svn Jul 04 02:54:25 wurp2 ? Jul 04 02:54:29 (er, and we submit the patch back to the svn owner, of course) Jul 04 02:54:29 yep yep :) Jul 04 02:54:45 roh: Did I drift into crazy talk? Jul 04 02:55:04 i do not care how you branch/merge on your machine, but my point is that the app itself currently resides in svn.. and the distro which is 'one layer above' is in git Jul 04 02:55:10 * jeffszusz pulls out his cardboard Freerunner and pretends to talk on it Jul 04 02:55:26 roh: I think I understood that Jul 04 02:55:31 Is this not self-evident enough from the repositories themselves? Jul 04 02:55:44 jeffszusz: whoa, cool man, where can I get one? :D Jul 04 02:55:46 Dave since we have loads of them, sadly not all the time. Jul 04 02:55:53 roh: And dealing with the distro seems straightforward; we create a git repo that is a "child"(branch) of the main repo Jul 04 02:55:57 Yeah, I noticed that too, roh :) Jul 04 02:56:04 I have to run in 30-60s (-: Jul 04 02:56:04 and can submit changes back Jul 04 02:56:11 paulproteus: bye :-( Jul 04 02:56:15 How long are confirmation emails taking to get sent out? Jul 04 02:56:19 Even occasionally, and if it weren't for tagging, I'd mistake one for another frequently :) Jul 04 02:56:24 Dave: print, cut, paste! Jul 04 02:56:30 wurp2, Right - we'll commit to a branch in OM git, and then we can ask the other branches to merge or cherry-pick our changes. Jul 04 02:56:33 also most projects are just about apps and not about 'lets build a device.. and while were at it write drivers for it.. ah.. and bootloaders.. and apps.-. and then package it in a linux-distri Jul 04 02:56:35 Someone not had one after 3.5 hours. Is that overly delayed? Jul 04 02:56:47 heh, true enough :) Jul 04 02:56:59 roh: But for apps, it seems that we need some way to share changes amongst ourselves w/o waiting for the patch to get accepted into the mainline, or even in some cases when we have things that aren't quite complete, that need another team member to finish Jul 04 02:56:59 jeffzusz: did you print out the CAD file and make your own phone out of cardboard too? Jul 04 02:57:31 wurp2 for testing they could be applied in the distro dev branch. Jul 04 02:57:32 alphabeat: nope, but i'm tempted Jul 04 02:57:33 alphabeat, yep .. understood .. I had looked a couple of times at the Group page, but the Aus one is not linked, so missed it. Not urgent since I already have a Neo :-) Still, am plannig to order a FR .. Jul 04 02:57:54 Oh, I should write that report to the ml now. Jul 04 02:58:00 roh: So we were suggesting a SHR specific git repo, that would drift a bit from the app's svn until we get small changesets complete, then we would create patches Jul 04 02:58:05 You guys, please store the results of this discussion on that wiki page. Jul 04 02:58:05 Bye! Jul 04 02:58:13 i guess it would start with a -dev only branch.. if that then takes 'form' make it a stable one and branch the new --dev Jul 04 02:58:15 and keep our git repo in sync w/ the app repo via svn-git Jul 04 02:58:21 (the distro) Jul 04 02:58:43 OK Jul 04 02:58:56 testing patches is in -dev as patch in oe.. then merge it into the repo (work with minrev and maxrev in the recipes) Jul 04 02:59:04 I'm hoping that our actual changes are fairly minimal Jul 04 02:59:48 i guess so. even then.. really.. nobody would want to hinder future maintainers of apps to evolve ;) Jul 04 02:59:57 A replacement for phonekit that delegates to ophoned, and a recipe to pull in compatible versions of all the basic apps **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 04 02:59:57 2008