**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 05 02:59:57 2008 Jul 05 03:00:37 ~/sb end Jul 05 03:00:41 argh Jul 05 03:07:28 heyyyy Jul 05 03:07:36 i see the Freerunner is released Jul 05 03:07:50 is it actually working? does it make calls reliably? Jul 05 03:09:22 The software is in a state of flux Jul 05 03:09:26 So not really. Jul 05 03:09:33 hmm Jul 05 03:09:44 so it's still very much a "hobbiest" phoneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Jul 05 03:09:49 You can with effort get a working software stack Jul 05 03:09:50 woops, sorry about the e's Jul 05 03:09:54 yes Jul 05 03:10:08 It's absolutely not mass market Jul 05 03:10:28 i have a NON-linux using friend who is trying to decide between OpenMoko and a Symbian or Nokia N-Series Jul 05 03:10:47 Ok - avoid OM for the moment Jul 05 03:10:52 It's certainly not ready. Jul 05 03:10:58 i suspected so Jul 05 03:13:09 thanks for the clarification Jul 05 03:13:34 Wish I could say otherwise, but it's not ready yet :( Jul 05 03:25:17 i'm stuck with a CDMA network until february anyway... by the time i can switch to a GSM provider i'm sure OpenMoko will be ready ;) Jul 05 03:26:17 gsm you say Jul 05 03:26:36 yes i do say Jul 05 03:26:51 i don't know anything about cellular. Jul 05 03:27:04 GSM is the kind of network the Neo will work on Jul 05 03:27:17 is it available in the US? Jul 05 03:27:20 155 Jul 05 03:27:20 it's the global standard...but the US and Canada are more entrenched in a network that uses CDMA technology. Jul 05 03:27:39 wastrel: you can get GSM in the US from AT&T and T-Mobile. everyone else is CDMA or ADMA Jul 05 03:28:37 anyone know where bitbake checks md5 sums from? I'm trying to build poky and keeps giving errors saying md5s dont match... :( Jul 05 03:30:54 hmm, are all the media players highly experimental? :p Jul 05 03:34:08 i think EVERYTHING on openmoko is highly experimental at this stage Jul 05 03:34:18 even phonecalls Jul 05 03:38:12 haha, true enough Jul 05 03:38:24 though actually I haven't had any problems with calls at all Jul 05 03:38:27 :P Jul 05 03:38:45 you will if you install a media player....*cough* Jul 05 03:38:47 j/k, i have no idea Jul 05 03:38:49 i don't have one yet Jul 05 03:38:56 :D Jul 05 04:04:15 doc|home: reply sent ;) Jul 05 04:04:24 in short, yes, still interested Jul 05 04:04:46 macdonalder: excellent Jul 05 04:05:08 macdonalder: going to give him until tomorrow morning to reply. That fair enough? Jul 05 04:05:17 yup, that's fine Jul 05 04:05:29 macdonalder: where in vancouver are you? Jul 05 04:06:00 16th & dunbar-ish Jul 05 04:07:28 ok, will give you a shout at about 11am tomorrow (if I'm awake :) ) and we can meet up during the day if that suits you Jul 05 04:07:41 hey Railer Jul 05 04:07:57 hey Jul 05 04:07:58 What's shakin' old man? Jul 05 04:07:59 oh ok... were you looking to get money then? Jul 05 04:08:15 * macdonalder is a little in the dark as to the details Jul 05 04:08:28 Everything is shaking, some things are falling off.... Jul 05 04:08:37 macdonalder: if you don't mind, I'm transferring the money for the last couple of days (slow process :/) to my credit card but not ordering until I've been mostly covered. Jul 05 04:08:56 have one phone worth left to be paid Jul 05 04:09:46 so UPS air will cover brokerage, just call them when the package is in the air tell them what's on it and you canprepay the duty/gst, and you're golden Jul 05 04:10:00 Alberta's 10 ordered today Jul 05 04:10:06 yey! :) Jul 05 04:10:15 Railer: do you get a tracking code? Jul 05 04:10:35 So anyone know what games come default on this biatch? Jul 05 04:10:38 Railer: and can you go into a UPS office and pay or does it have to be over the phone? Jul 05 04:10:51 I'm sure either Jul 05 04:10:53 doc|home: how much are we talking? Jul 05 04:11:04 gst on 4000 Jul 05 04:11:17 macdonalder: the phone is 369.99 (iirc) + gst + delivery (113/10) Jul 05 04:11:29 Dave! Jul 05 04:11:33 macdonalder: so I'm looking for 400 up front and we can sort the rest afterwards Jul 05 04:11:43 alright Jul 05 04:11:43 then my own liability is limited :) Jul 05 04:11:53 haha yeah, that's reasonable Jul 05 04:12:01 Dave! Jul 05 04:12:30 what games come on this thing stock people! I need to know! Jul 05 04:12:40 Railer: not very many, if any Jul 05 04:12:52 I want cribbage and nethack Jul 05 04:12:55 Railer: they can't get power management nor calls stable, you think they're going to worry about games? :) Jul 05 04:13:05 Railer: then get hacking :) Jul 05 04:13:34 this thing will make call right? we can hope for that right? Jul 05 04:13:51 maybe :) Jul 05 04:14:24 why am a worried I'm buying a $400 open source brick? Jul 05 04:14:56 because it's only a very temporary brick Jul 05 04:14:58 write the dang code Jul 05 04:15:26 i'm gonna help with the getting started guide project Jul 05 04:15:44 * macdonalder feeds the code monkeys Jul 05 04:16:04 that is what i need Jul 05 04:16:14 a bunch of crappy games Jul 05 04:16:15 slide the pizza in under the door ONLY AFTER the code comes out, Jul 05 04:16:21 hehe Jul 05 04:16:27 I'd rather take a decent media player Jul 05 04:16:29 do NOT open that door! Jul 05 04:16:32 So how old is everyone here? Jul 05 04:16:42 the door is open Jul 05 04:16:55 Dave: then do :) I'm considering porting an mpd client to it Jul 05 04:17:07 and my python is non-existant Jul 05 04:17:12 * doc|home must get a python book Jul 05 04:17:34 for god sakes! never let your monkeies see day light, they'll burst into flames! Jul 05 04:17:36 python? Jul 05 04:17:37 mpd would be great Jul 05 04:17:55 yes python, we code with snakes Jul 05 04:18:21 there are lots on line Jul 05 04:18:38 :P Jul 05 04:18:43 *hisssssssssss* Jul 05 04:18:46 wastrel: yeah, afaik the client I want to use is done in python Jul 05 04:18:59 Dave! how old are you? me 40\ Jul 05 04:19:21 macdonalder aye, nothing beats lying in bed on a saturday morning using my n800 to control my computer's music playing :) Jul 05 04:20:19 heh, I use it hooked up to icecast to listen to music at work Jul 05 04:20:34 nice :) Jul 05 04:21:03 I just copied my music onto my mp3 player and copied it onto my work machine :) Jul 05 04:21:07 * doc|home waves to the RIAA Jul 05 04:22:17 :D Jul 05 04:36:07 what the hell is everyone doing? Jul 05 04:38:44 148 Jul 05 04:38:57 warning-fail Jul 05 04:39:03 playing with openembedded Jul 05 04:39:49 gettin a error code at the store Jul 05 04:41:41 146 left Jul 05 04:42:02 proly till august Jul 05 04:46:37 linuxxr, you programming anything on for FR? Jul 05 04:54:46 :\ Jul 05 04:58:59 :\ Jul 05 05:01:26 is the freerunner's microSD slot sdhc compliant? Jul 05 05:04:07 iratsu: I believe it is Jul 05 05:04:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Jul 05 05:14:36 old macdonald Jul 05 05:14:41 old mcrailer Jul 05 05:15:01 hiya Da Jul 05 05:15:04 ve Jul 05 05:15:21 Hello ferric :P Jul 05 05:23:22 hey i just figured out the whole emulator thang! well I now have a project for the weekend! Jul 05 05:30:35 Hooray! Jul 05 05:31:24 anyone around Jul 05 05:31:51 Yup. Jul 05 05:31:59 anyone want to tell me what ubuntu version will qemu work with best? Jul 05 05:32:18 Dave is here but he's hiding Jul 05 05:32:31 having troubles with gllin. get bad magic Jul 05 05:32:43 I've had it running with 7.10 but I haven't tried with 8.04 Jul 05 05:33:01 when ipkg install gllin...ipkg Jul 05 05:34:13 macdonalder, so what do i need to write python for this thing? and if i write a successful program do I need the dboard to install it live or could i just load it in? Jul 05 05:50:40 about the topic; the battery life, so is OM going to release another crap ass model? Jul 05 06:18:51 KrisAbsinthe: not its actually kernel related... Jul 05 06:18:59 KrisAbsinthe: you seem to be a ray of sunshine Jul 05 06:21:35 lol, just tired of my device being un usable, i bought my gta01 before we knew about the gsm 850 limitations Jul 05 06:22:05 do you know what kernel I will need for gllin, need a GPS for HOPE Jul 05 06:22:31 no idea Jul 05 06:23:26 gllin as it is on 3rdparty.downloads.om.org uses a wrapper which makes normal kernels usable Jul 05 06:23:48 The only gllin/kernel interaction is that the power-control files in /sys were renamed at some point, but the current kernel should have symlinks so that either name will work Jul 05 06:24:05 ive flashed like 10 times and every time the gllin returns bad magic durring ipkg install Jul 05 06:24:19 gllin should never have done power control itself. sequencing is done by the kernel Jul 05 06:24:37 sure you downloaded the ipkg and not an html-error? Jul 05 06:24:42 gllin *should* have been open source Jul 05 06:24:45 Check that your gllin ipkg is actually an ipkg. Sometimes your browser will download a copy of the EULA instead. Jul 05 06:24:46 use your browser to download Jul 05 06:25:06 yeah even did a microSD transfer from my desktop Jul 05 06:25:08 KrisAbsinthe that was not our place to decide in the beginning Jul 05 06:25:22 i know, stupid closed vendors Jul 05 06:27:20 one thing im worried about is future development for the GTA01 now that the 02 is available Jul 05 06:27:57 KrisAbsinthe: well the images are being compiled for both so far Jul 05 06:28:21 Haven't worked very good with my gta01 lately Jul 05 06:28:44 I was wondering what service providers some of you were using? Jul 05 06:28:47 And I guess there's a risk they will get too big for the flash Jul 05 06:28:54 I don't really mind that gllin is closed-source. What I really wanted was a datasheet for the hardware. Jul 05 06:28:56 At&T Jul 05 06:29:49 Ill be happy if i can get gllin to work again Jul 05 06:30:25 KrisAbsinthe: To what extent do you use email, web, and such and is there a particular package your using that seems to be a good deal? Jul 05 06:31:44 on the smart phone I have(blackjack) i use everything, so AT&T has an unlimited package, for 5 phones i pay 160 a month Jul 05 06:32:28 gta02 doesn't need gillin, right? Jul 05 06:32:37 right. Jul 05 06:33:14 just checking, i ordered it three days ago :) Jul 05 06:33:14 ok hightrust is broked Jul 05 06:33:46 carrar: In what way is Hi Trust broken? Jul 05 06:33:47 Krisabsinthe: So would you recommend using a mainstream phone and the freerunner together over just the freerunner? Jul 05 06:33:59 is there any application support music playback, which can be installed in GTA02 Jul 05 06:34:00 it gave me some error after wanting more info Jul 05 06:34:09 I would just use the freerunner if i had one Jul 05 06:34:13 very none descript error Jul 05 06:34:16 like "error" Jul 05 06:34:20 carrar: Was it Gateway Error 500? Jul 05 06:34:24 yes Jul 05 06:34:24 hell id use just my gta01 if i was not exiled to a GSM 850 area Jul 05 06:35:02 hmmm Jul 05 06:35:10 carrar: I got that error because my credit card bank was blocking the transaction because transactions from Taiwan looked suspicious to it. Jul 05 06:35:31 they need a american processing company Jul 05 06:35:35 Kris...: Yeah, I know what you mean. Jul 05 06:35:35 for american orders Jul 05 06:35:39 carrar: I called my bank, told the to let the transaction go through, and I no longer got the error 500. Jul 05 06:35:57 did you have to go through the whole order process again? Jul 05 06:36:02 I have been trying to sell my 01 to help pay for the freerunner Jul 05 06:36:02 or just call the bank? Jul 05 06:37:23 I had to place the order again. I got a confirmation email from Openmoko after the entire process was complete, so I'm ppretty ssure everything worked. Jul 05 06:37:43 KrisAbsinthe: sell it to somebody in 900 area? Jul 05 06:37:51 thanks, calling my bank now Jul 05 06:37:52 carrar the point is not processing. its where the money goes. and om is not a company in the us or eu Jul 05 06:38:35 trying, going to ebay soon if i can get this gllin to work, just need a GPS for hope in two weeks Jul 05 06:39:27 KrisAbsinthe: if you can't install the package with ipkg, you can extract the contents with "ar x gllin_whatever.ipk" - this will give a "data.tar.gz" with the actual files (same as a .deb) Jul 05 06:40:23 yeah, i tryed that and got something like lib.so something when i ./gllin ill try again and post results Jul 05 06:41:06 ok trying again Jul 05 06:41:08 You should have the actual binary as /home/root/gllin/gllin.real, with /home/root/gllin/gllin as a bash wrapper script Jul 05 06:41:10 has anyone build gta02 images useing mokomakefile Jul 05 06:41:22 I only seem to able to build gta01 ones Jul 05 06:41:47 hmmm Jul 05 06:41:58 maybe that setup-machine-gta02 Jul 05 06:42:42 Here's another question that I have: The GTA01 I understood was kind of beta, and not ready for prime time. Is the 02 full fledged mainstream? Jul 05 06:43:15 attempt one was opkg install gllin_1.0\+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk Jul 05 06:43:15 opkg: invalid magic obviously failed Jul 05 06:43:35 kamisamanou: gta02 is definitely not for an average consumer yet afaik Jul 05 06:44:06 what's the md5sum of that .ipk? Jul 05 06:44:28 56c808877cafe9a5ddf309c6b9c04578 Jul 05 06:44:58 can opkg extract packages Jul 05 06:45:11 different than what I have - mine's 2019d71f... (but same filename) Jul 05 06:45:24 lindi: What is really the major showstopper? Jul 05 06:45:46 what's the file size? Mine is 1976050 bytes Jul 05 06:45:52 hmm, just a sec Jul 05 06:45:53 w00t Jul 05 06:45:54 ok Jul 05 06:45:56 all good Jul 05 06:46:06 goodie! Jul 05 06:46:19 kamisamanou: i am still waiting for my device so i don't have personal experience Jul 05 06:46:35 kamisamanou: but i understood that the software is still very much in development Jul 05 06:46:48 1976050 bytes Jul 05 06:47:04 it seems mokomakefile differintiates between gta02 and freerunner Jul 05 06:47:10 anyone know why Jul 05 06:47:22 lindi: thanks Jul 05 06:47:26 goodwill, Seemed to me it treated the same. Jul 05 06:48:20 paulproteus: yeah...I see the .PHONY Jul 05 06:48:21 seems im getting a different md5 on my laptop than on the neo Jul 05 06:48:28 kamisamanou: but if you know gnu/linux and its enough that basic things work and you want to help out then it might be for you if i understood it right Jul 05 06:48:59 What's the fix for a GTA01 with a drained battery, again? Jul 05 06:49:09 I have had it hooked up to a computer for the past 24h and it doesn't seem to turn on still. Jul 05 06:49:14 Does anyone know how well the phones(01/02) interact with a linux system. e.g. calendar & contacts management? Jul 05 06:49:21 now to get it to switch to sip/asterisk when at home on the wifi Jul 05 06:49:38 unplug usb, remove battery for 10s, replace battery, plug in usb, wait an hour or so without pressing any buttons Jul 05 06:49:46 paulproteus: Leave the battery out of the unit for an hour or more, then recharge. Jul 05 06:50:48 * paulproteus tries mmontour's strategy (-: Jul 05 06:50:59 Do you guys know if GTA02 has the same annoyance? Jul 05 06:51:16 It seems like it would be useful to unconditionally wake up the Neo every 1h to see if the battery is close to dead, and if it is, just power off. Jul 05 06:52:30 does anyone have bash-completion for make? Jul 05 06:53:04 goodwill, Yeah, Debian includes in /etc/bash_completion. Jul 05 06:54:21 ah, got it Jul 05 06:54:42 paulproteus: I use gentoo, but that gave the right push Jul 05 06:54:51 Great (-: Jul 05 06:57:03 I have done a trivial port of the x48 HP calculator emulator, to make it run on the neo1973. The port was trivial, because all I had to do was re-arrange the display to make it fit in a VGA screen. Jul 05 06:57:16 why can't battery life be discussed.....that little sentence up there is harassing my curiosity. Jul 05 06:57:20 kamisamanou: I believe the contacts stuff right now uses evolution-dataserver Jul 05 06:57:32 kamisamanou: so it should be fine...but I could be wrong Jul 05 06:57:33 It doesn't seem worthwhile to define a project for that, since my changes were trivial. Jul 05 06:57:53 How should I make it available for anyone else who wants to use it? Jul 05 06:58:28 goodwill:thanks Jul 05 06:58:39 rtm: has upstream accepted your fixes? Jul 05 06:59:20 Upsteam seems unresponsive - the code may have been abandoned. I son't know how long I should wait to hear from the original authors. Jul 05 06:59:45 opps, don't, not son't Jul 05 07:06:39 paulproteus: gta02 should be able to boot from USB power even if it has a discharged battery. However there are currently some bugs in that area - see the kernel ML. Jul 05 07:06:56 mmontour, The linux kernel ML? Jul 05 07:07:03 openmoko-kernel Jul 05 07:07:04 Or some OM kernel list? Jul 05 07:07:07 Oh, /me joins it Jul 05 07:08:17 mmontour, Do you happen to know if it's possible (yet?) to schedule wake-ups from sleep? Jul 05 07:08:49 rtm: right, hp-71 emulator would be cool but i am not sure if hp actually open sourced it all Jul 05 07:08:59 I don't know. Jul 05 07:09:18 Duly noted. Jul 05 07:10:16 lol, i just got the message from the announce list that the store is open Jul 05 07:10:49 I got it about 4 hours ago Jul 05 07:10:53 Well, I've got the HP48G emulator working. The ROM images aren't technically free, but HP has consented to them being made available on the web. Jul 05 07:11:53 It sure beats the default OM calculator. Jul 05 07:12:15 cool. I wonder if I can find any of my old HP48SX programs... Jul 05 07:13:06 If you've got the ROM image for a 48SX (you can find it on the web) this emulator will do that model too. It will emulate any of the 48 series. Jul 05 07:13:06 'The HP-71B was designed as an open machine. HP made available detailed documentation which described OS information (including full source code), file formats, how to create BASIC extensions, etc.' Jul 05 07:13:33 but that doesn't unfortunately say anything about distributing or changing the source Jul 05 07:14:58 from .object import Object Jul 05 07:15:05 I don't have a ROM image yet. I did have an actual 48SX but it died many years ago. I may still have a backup somewhere on my PC Jul 05 07:15:12 is the . before object a python 2.5 syntax Jul 05 07:15:42 I uploaded a screen shot of it running on the neo1973. You can see it under recent changes on the Wiki if you're interested. Jul 05 07:17:18 Oh, right, the 48G changed to the ugly colors. Apart from that it looks nice. Jul 05 07:17:39 cause according to this http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/#guido-s-decision Jul 05 07:17:47 its should be in 2.4 too Jul 05 07:23:52 I've been reading some faqs and was inspired with this quesion. If the Neo charges via usb will it charge with a wall plug to usb converter similar to what is made for iPods? Jul 05 07:24:34 I second that question. Jul 05 07:29:00 kamisamanou, AFAIK, they already ship the device with a USB-wall charger Jul 05 07:29:23 Err, ah right. Jul 05 07:29:24 >_> Jul 05 07:41:03 mbuf: thanks Jul 05 07:41:22 kamisamanou, np Jul 05 07:42:14 btw, after 10 years of using the internet, im, chat, etc. I finally figured out AFAIK is As Far As I Know. Jul 05 07:42:47 Woah, that's what it means? Jul 05 07:43:11 ... Why's there a 1 after my name? Jul 05 07:43:19 There. Jul 05 07:45:09 Infinyte, you had it for the last 12hrs ;0 Jul 05 07:46:12 Well it's in like, dark blue. On a dark grey background. So I couldn't read it well. And I just now was looking really close at my computer whislt scrolling Eve Online and noticed it when checking the chat. >_> Jul 05 07:46:52 yeah yeah... ;) Jul 05 07:47:07 >_> What's a CTCP? Jul 05 07:47:10 well, im off again. Jul 05 07:47:26 Seeya. Jul 05 07:47:53 Infinyte, don't know what the acronym means, though it is used for probing info, for instance, ctcp version, checks what is your irc client Jul 05 07:48:05 Ah I see. Jul 05 07:48:12 more correctly asks, you client doesn't have to answer... Jul 05 07:48:42 I'm on Pidgin. 2.4.2. I think 2.4.3 is out, I should go snatch it. Jul 05 07:49:08 Infinyte: indeed, .3 fixes a security bug Jul 05 07:49:36 pabs3, im not sure about that, i think it only fixes the icq protocol version. Jul 05 07:49:41 well cya. Jul 05 07:49:56 I kinda wish Miranda was still multiplatform. :< Jul 05 07:49:58 Seeya. Jul 05 07:50:33 TAsn: debian changelog says it fixes an MSN integer overflow security issue CVE-2008-2927 Jul 05 08:00:22 can the latest kernel read FAT Jul 05 08:00:48 Why would you want it to read your mom? Jul 05 08:00:50 Oooo burn. Jul 05 08:00:53 <_< Just kidding. Jul 05 08:00:58 funny Jul 05 08:01:01 Sorry, it's late. ^^; Jul 05 08:01:06 no problem Jul 05 08:01:16 it was unexpected at least Jul 05 08:02:03 Yay. :D But uhh, unfortunately I don't know the answer to your question. I would assume so though, since lots of USB thumb drives's are still in FAT.. I think. Jul 05 08:02:18 Yo' momma's such a nerd she use bitbake to cook dinner! Jul 05 08:02:51 having troubles converting my 2gb microSD to ext3. messes up the superblocks Jul 05 08:05:22 wtf, my fr still cant get a fix on GPS :/ Jul 05 08:05:26 (non assited) Jul 05 08:05:29 assisted* Jul 05 08:05:59 I am inside though, but i had it outside for like 40minutes and still got no fix earlier :/ Jul 05 08:06:18 cant help with the FR sorry Jul 05 08:06:22 It's like it almosts gets there, but still spamming "unknown msg*58" -_- Jul 05 08:07:47 KrisAbsinthe: haven't tried it Jul 05 08:07:47 ? Jul 05 08:09:10 KrisAbsinthe: Did you use fdisk first to create the partion? Jul 05 08:09:48 * AVee had a USB stick one which horribly messed up, recreating the partiontable fixed that. Jul 05 08:12:45 is FAT a good idea on SD cards? wouldn't you use JFFS2 or LogFS or something? Jul 05 08:39:16 pabs3, SD does its own block-level wear-leveling so adding another level of leveling wouldn't do much good Jul 05 08:39:26 ah, ok Jul 05 08:41:23 mjr: Is one garaunteed that any SD card does wear-leveling? I had heard that some cheap ones did not. Jul 05 08:42:21 I thought that applied mostly to USB sticks Jul 05 08:43:41 anyway, it is part of the spec, and wasit speedevil who once indicated that the leveling would actually be done by the controller and not the card itself Jul 05 08:43:51 but I'm not sure of that myself Jul 05 08:45:42 so how weak are the batteries? Jul 05 08:47:02 1200mAh Jul 05 08:48:14 ya but waht's that gonna get me 1 hour? 2? or just across the parking lot? Jul 05 08:49:15 Railer: I can run tangogps for ~4 hours on my neo1973, and it is a big CPU hog. Jul 05 08:49:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_%28GTA02%29_Battery Jul 05 08:49:32 no worries then Jul 05 08:50:40 it's fine for that big a system Jul 05 08:50:56 how is tangogps? Jul 05 08:51:33 Railer: tangogps is quite nice - but it just displayes maps and tracks. It does not have the ability to plan routes. Jul 05 08:52:15 hey sounds find to me and it calculate speed and ETA? Jul 05 08:52:27 You can preload map tiles, so that your moko doesn';t need to have a network connection in order to display your position on the map. Jul 05 08:52:56 Speed yes, ETA no. But it's opensource! Add what you want to it! Jul 05 08:53:11 eta would mostly make sense if you had the routing thing Jul 05 08:53:25 rtm, try navit.sf.net ? Jul 05 08:53:34 what maps just europe or NA too? Jul 05 08:53:36 routing would be nice to add to it though, but yeah, there's other things like navit Jul 05 08:53:58 it uses Openstreetmap per default Jul 05 08:54:10 mjr: Yes, that would be best, but the low end Garmin units, for example, do ETA without route finding. THey just use the component of you velocity in the direction of the destination. Jul 05 08:54:10 so whatever they have so far, and if they don't you can add it :þ Jul 05 08:54:52 mbuf: No, I've never heard of that. Jul 05 08:54:57 you can configure it to use other map sources, but this may go against their acceptable use policies Jul 05 08:55:09 cool Jul 05 08:55:19 garman? Jul 05 08:55:43 I really, really wish the USGS would put their topo maps online. Jul 05 08:56:05 Railer: Sorry about my spelling. Jul 05 08:57:07 Well I'm off to bed. Jul 05 08:59:33 mbuf: Thanks for the pointer to navit. It looks very nice. Jul 05 08:59:45 rtm, np Jul 05 09:02:13 Mmmm... I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight. Jul 05 09:04:30 Hello. I'm trying to compile OpenMoko with MokoMakefile. The compile fails with `mkimage: Can't map arch/arm/boot/uImage: No such device'. What does that mean? Jul 05 09:06:38 any pointers into creating themes for openmoko? Jul 05 09:09:30 wow Jul 05 09:09:40 I can almost buy half of a FreeRunner Jul 05 09:10:29 win! Jul 05 09:10:33 wait, which half? Jul 05 09:10:43 doc|home: i was going to ask the same Jul 05 09:10:47 ;) Jul 05 09:10:50 hehe Jul 05 09:10:52 Hmm... Jul 05 09:10:56 very important question Jul 05 09:11:00 do I want the speaker or the mic? :D Jul 05 09:11:21 Can I get the inner half? Jul 05 09:11:23 :D Jul 05 09:11:29 tunys: i would buy the part with the lanyard loop Jul 05 09:11:31 jajajaj Jul 05 09:11:52 * tunys waits patiently for commission Jul 05 09:11:57 * tunys ... Jul 05 09:12:08 * tunys stops waiting patiently and paces around Jul 05 09:13:30 So when I actually get a FreeRunner, what will I do with the other 300 bucks I'll have? Jul 05 09:14:07 tunys, save it for the next release Jul 05 09:14:17 What was the bash variable specifying all arguments of a script? Jul 05 09:15:09 mbuf, and have two of the same phone, only one is slightly different? Jul 05 09:16:41 tunys, you can give the first one to me, then Jul 05 09:16:51 milko_, $@ Jul 05 09:16:55 can I sell it to you? :P Jul 05 09:17:01 mbuf: Thank you :) Jul 05 09:17:16 tunys, we shall decide after you buy the next release Jul 05 09:17:37 mbuf, you got it :) Jul 05 09:17:56 mbuf, if not here, you can find me in #lojban #plugaz and #teensonlinux Jul 05 09:18:05 in case we forget each other's nicks Jul 05 09:18:06 tunys, ok Jul 05 09:18:20 I'm also in #asciipr0n and a couple different Ruby-related chans Jul 05 09:24:25 mwester: just sent an email about your SHR image Jul 05 09:31:35 good morning :) Jul 05 09:31:57 good afternoon :) Jul 05 09:32:13 that's a matter of perspective :) Jul 05 09:32:25 And I'm not talking about timezones :> Jul 05 09:32:59 ~ugt Jul 05 09:33:00 ugt is probably Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jul 05 09:33:23 anyone want to buy a gta01 or trade for GPS unit Jul 05 09:33:54 * XorA|gone has too many gta01 already Jul 05 09:34:06 XorA|gone, never knew that before.. thank you Jul 05 09:34:57 it lies about created in mipslinux though, we were using it long before there was such a thing :-) Jul 05 09:36:29 anywhere I can wget gllin from Jul 05 09:36:57 or punch it in the face Jul 05 09:41:09 unfortuneatly its hidden behind a license acceptance form Jul 05 09:42:25 i noticed, i wasted a few hours thinking I had gotten it, i should get in the habit of check the MD5 of stuff Jul 05 09:46:49 11:13 < tunys> So when I actually get a FreeRunner, what will I do with the other 300 bucks I'll have? Jul 05 09:47:04 that's what I said Jul 05 09:47:04 send it to me so i can buy a new gfx card :D? Jul 05 09:47:19 tunys: i think my suggestion is a good idea! Jul 05 09:47:39 I need a new hard drive. :P Jul 05 09:47:43 anyone know when the gsm 900 phones will be in the store? Jul 05 09:48:00 no, but they will be at some point Jul 05 09:48:36 ok, so the phones going through eu distributors are also gsm 850? Jul 05 09:49:34 no, that's where all the 900s went Jul 05 09:49:51 ah,ok, ill buy one from then i guess :) Jul 05 09:49:52 India and Europe got all the 900s, I hear. Jul 05 09:50:01 from eu Jul 05 09:50:18 * tunys gets back to coding with his Bach and Shakespeare action figures Jul 05 09:51:01 Oh, Bach... aren't you glad that Ruby has a net/smtp library? Jul 05 09:51:18 makes this commission a hell of a lot easier Jul 05 09:52:47 * tunys is basically getting paid to send email with a link Jul 05 09:53:55 Working on a saturday? :/ Jul 05 09:54:06 at home Jul 05 09:54:13 it's also 3 am Jul 05 09:54:38 it's 12:00 here, saturday morning. Jul 05 09:55:33 * Kamping_Kaiser slaps EU and india for getting all the gsm900's then Jul 05 09:55:46 wasnt even enough left for .au >( Jul 05 09:55:53 * flexd pats his FR Jul 05 09:56:08 not even enough for the eu Jul 05 09:56:16 * tunys blows a bit of dust off shakespeare's shoulder Jul 05 09:56:19 Europe's huge Jul 05 09:56:30 a lot of Linux users too, thanks to Mandriva Jul 05 09:56:48 theres lots of EU based distros Jul 05 09:56:59 Mandriva's the biggest Jul 05 09:57:10 I think SuSE was French in a past life Jul 05 09:57:27 i thought it was .de Jul 05 09:57:28 I use Debian and Linux Mint myself, nationality of the distro does not matter as they all come with all the languages anyway.. Jul 05 09:57:48 Kamping_Kaiser, you're probably right Jul 05 09:57:58 flexd, interesting mix (those two dists) Jul 05 09:58:20 flexd, i've seen very little support for .lojban. Jul 05 09:58:30 they support Esperanto though :/ Jul 05 10:06:45 Kamping_Kaiser: their about the same Jul 05 10:06:49 debian is.. debian Jul 05 10:07:09 linux mint is a ubuntu variant i think, has some userfriendly stuff, very desktop friendly Jul 05 10:07:20 yeah, its ubuntu based Jul 05 10:10:22 You know, my programming teacher (Visual Basic, eeewwww) last year was teaching us about development methods Jul 05 10:10:41 He told us that we should use the "waterfall" method Jul 05 10:10:48 I just read up on it Jul 05 10:11:17 apparently, when it was first introduced in a paper, it was actually being negatively criticized Jul 05 10:11:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model Jul 05 10:11:56 Never liked that teacher... Jul 05 10:22:35 that sucked Jul 05 10:29:46 ahoi Jul 05 10:29:46 I just setup a host based development enviroment, when i launch oh-launch it creates a window bigger than my screen is there an option to fix this some where ?? Jul 05 10:30:26 Woo! Jul 05 10:35:44 anyone got a good engkish english dictionary for freerunner? Jul 05 10:35:56 s/engkish/english Jul 05 10:36:45 I am building a package using toolchain, when installing dependency library , I got "configure: error: Gnome-vfs requires libbz2 to compile.", libbz2 is already installed in system Jul 05 10:37:06 So I'm trying to compile OpenMoko, and the compilation fails, mkimage giving no such device. I managed to strace it. http://pastebin.com/m2530637d Can anyone give me a clue why it does this? Jul 05 10:38:48 Am i need to install libbz2 in "/usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/include" Jul 05 10:39:00 Anybody help me Jul 05 10:39:06 smhar, any command line dic will do Jul 05 10:39:17 none cli must be adapted... Jul 05 10:42:03 Hm, well, it seems that ZFS over Fuse doesn't support mmap (at least in this case, as it has no problem to mmap other files). Any clue on how to compile OpenMoko without mmap, or I should write try to wrap mmap/munmap wrapper using malloc/write? Jul 05 10:50:19 Hi! Does anybody know what's wrong with the store..? us.direct.openmoko.com is not reachable since i tr Jul 05 10:50:40 Hi! Does anybody know what's wrong with the store..? us.direct.openmoko.com is not reachable since i tried first a coupple of hours ago... Jul 05 10:52:20 spin: I can reach it. Jul 05 10:55:48 rtm: how did you test it? Jul 05 10:57:17 spin: I went to www.openmoko.com/store.html, then clicked on BUY FROM OPENMOKO STORE, which successfully took me to the page you mentioned above. Jul 05 11:21:14 Anyone does know if mmap's offset when mapping a file on the disk, is from the start of the file, of from the current position of the fd? Jul 05 11:27:52 so yeah the GPS issue Jul 05 11:28:05 can someone say something about it Jul 05 11:28:12 cause it seems hardware Jul 05 11:35:00 igor321, have you tried the mailing list? Jul 05 11:35:27 TAsn: no, i haven't Jul 05 11:35:46 though i expect a shitstorm there Jul 05 11:35:55 igor321, asking the devs is the best solution... Jul 05 11:36:10 i just need an immidiate answer cause i'm about to order Jul 05 11:36:26 as i said yesterday, i don't even own one myself... Jul 05 11:36:26 i believe they're hush hush about it Jul 05 11:37:02 igor321, worst case, you can return it if it doesn't work, though that's really a bad state to be in. Jul 05 11:37:09 i belive they should adress it asap Jul 05 11:37:23 well i'm not sure about the warranty Jul 05 11:37:28 does it cover that? Jul 05 11:37:30 from what i saw gps works for many people (only one said otherwise) Jul 05 11:37:41 igor321, a malfunctioning product? Jul 05 11:37:44 heck yeah. Jul 05 11:37:51 (i think) Jul 05 11:37:55 cause the gps technically works Jul 05 11:37:57 I'm not so sure about the gps issue Jul 05 11:38:01 with an external antenna Jul 05 11:38:25 i've seen three people on the ML who can't get a fix at all Jul 05 11:38:29 igor321, i c. well as i said, i don't know enough about the issue to help. Jul 05 11:38:30 that's pretty bad, no? Jul 05 11:38:34 The one where I got an offset seems to have cleared after staying still for an hour or so Jul 05 11:38:40 igor321, that's terrible... Jul 05 11:39:02 an offset? Jul 05 11:39:59 yes, it seemed to place me a several hundred meters away. did so on two consecutive afternoons Jul 05 11:40:07 whats the GTK+ version on openmoko&toolchain, is it 2.10?? Jul 05 11:40:40 bobkare, as i told someone yesterday, seems like the fbi is playing pranks on you. Jul 05 11:40:53 bobkare: and after an hour of standing still it was okay? Jul 05 11:41:03 igor321: like i said however, it cleared up and gave me a good fix after I'd stood still for a very long time Jul 05 11:41:15 TAsn: american stopped jamming GPS 10 yrs ago Jul 05 11:41:22 bobkare: that's really bad Jul 05 11:41:40 where can i get libraries for openmoko? Jul 05 11:41:53 I'll have to see how it works now though, if it's just some kind of temporary thing the first time it tries to get a fix or something Jul 05 11:42:10 opendeep: which libraries are you talking about? Jul 05 11:42:13 what was the name of this vector based gps app? one was rana and the other..? Jul 05 11:42:14 bobkare, though now for real, this means that either that spot has reflections which means the om gets the sat signal off a building instead from the sat Jul 05 11:43:03 or that the "known" sat position of certain sats that rise above your house at noon is wrong in the om Jul 05 11:43:12 TAsn: i don't think gps works like that :) Jul 05 11:43:30 the former :) Jul 05 11:43:32 kuzgun:When installing dependency library , I got this "configure: error: Gnome-vfs requires libbz2 to compile. Jul 05 11:43:33 " Jul 05 11:43:47 igor321, about the reflection? Jul 05 11:43:51 igor321: you certainly can get false positions becouse of reflections Jul 05 11:43:52 yes Jul 05 11:43:59 igor321, sure it does. Jul 05 11:44:01 how so? Jul 05 11:44:05 opendeep: did you look at here => http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Installing_additional_libraries_into_the_toolchain Jul 05 11:44:10 gps knows where the sats are supposed to be Jul 05 11:44:14 get a signal Jul 05 11:44:19 and compare time Jul 05 11:44:26 in order to calc a position Jul 05 11:44:30 iirc Jul 05 11:44:40 so a reflection means Jul 05 11:44:45 so how does a reflection from a nearby bulidng change anything? Jul 05 11:44:54 you get the certain signal with a delay Jul 05 11:45:06 igor321: it changes the length the signal travels Jul 05 11:45:19 TAsn: hm, yeah, if it was something about the almanac it could make sense I guess Jul 05 11:45:20 so the gps device thinks that it's in bigger distance than what it really is. Jul 05 11:45:25 the signal travels maybe 100 meters more Jul 05 11:45:37 igor321, which means Jul 05 11:45:46 how great was your offset bobkare? Jul 05 11:45:50 you get 100 meter of false positioning. Jul 05 11:46:11 igor321, that depends of course what is reflecting and that's position. Jul 05 11:46:24 kuzgun:Yes , i fallowed like that only but i don't know how to install libbz2 because it is not available with configure file. Jul 05 11:46:28 several hundred meters Jul 05 11:46:51 yeah i get it, but where there any buildings to reflect upon? Jul 05 11:47:03 pretty much only one Jul 05 11:47:09 igor321, as we don't know the terrain Jul 05 11:47:24 and how come the fix was correct after an hour Jul 05 11:47:32 something is definetly fishy with the gps Jul 05 11:47:43 I'll try walking someplace else the next time I'm trying to get a fix Jul 05 11:47:59 nor do we know the exact behavior of the buildings we can't know what happend... Jul 05 11:48:13 igor321, that hour may be gps related, as in broken hw Jul 05 11:48:18 though it can also mean Jul 05 11:48:23 the sat moved enough Jul 05 11:48:27 opendeep: in fact I have libbz2, but it does not come with the toolchain I think Jul 05 11:48:31 so it doesn't reflect anymore Jul 05 11:48:41 or that the real signal arrives first... Jul 05 11:48:45 aren't the sats stationary? Jul 05 11:48:46 I used mokomakefile to make a openmoko-devel-image, so it came with it Jul 05 11:48:53 igor321, no Jul 05 11:49:03 igor321: no, they have a pretty low orbit, not geostationary Jul 05 11:49:18 oh okay Jul 05 11:49:26 pardon my ignorance :) Jul 05 11:49:29 igor321, making sats stationary means a lot of sats in order to cover the whole world :) Jul 05 11:49:50 igor321, ignorance can be solved (wikipedia ;0 ) Jul 05 11:50:02 igor321, though there's nothing to be sorry about. Jul 05 11:50:28 i wouldn't say that :) Jul 05 11:50:35 anyways Jul 05 11:50:47 i'd certainly lika an official statement regarding this Jul 05 11:50:51 igor321, now the big Q should you (and i) buy one or not? Jul 05 11:50:58 opendeep: many of the libraries that you will need may not come with the toolchain, I think you should install them by yourself Jul 05 11:51:01 it is a _big_ issue Jul 05 11:51:22 TAsn: i didn't care about the glamo or nothing, but i was really hoping for usefull GPS Jul 05 11:51:28 bobkare, if you can get another gps device to compare with, that would be great. Jul 05 11:51:37 igor321, i DO care about glamo Jul 05 11:51:48 opendeep: I have a similar problem too Jul 05 11:51:51 but i can't wait to gta03 i want one now :) Jul 05 11:51:59 me too Jul 05 11:52:09 igor321, but gps is a must. Jul 05 11:52:15 exactly. Jul 05 11:53:16 so possibly the sat position info is corrupted in some GTA02's? Jul 05 11:53:22 could that be what's causing it Jul 05 11:54:08 igor321, a lot of stuff can cause corruptions Jul 05 11:54:18 even the position of the ant in the device... Jul 05 11:54:22 imho the sat position info is aquired from the sats Jul 05 11:55:24 so it's probably a flaw of the internal antenna's design... Jul 05 11:55:29 oh man Jul 05 11:55:37 or a clock issue Jul 05 11:55:43 by ant in device, i meant hw schematics... Jul 05 11:56:08 tedo, as i said earlier, it can be a lot of things... Jul 05 11:56:18 how precise is the clock supposed to be? Jul 05 11:56:34 i understand there are some problems setting time on the GTA Jul 05 11:56:55 igor321, i think the gps clock is a diffrent clock than the mokos... Jul 05 11:57:06 igor321, not sure though. Jul 05 12:00:55 kuzgun:But in this case I downloaded libbz2 but there is no configure file to cross compile. Jul 05 12:01:33 I don't know the situation with libbz2 Jul 05 12:02:47 TAsn: i just read the ML again, it's not a clock issue, the GPS works fine once someone connect the externall ant Jul 05 12:03:08 opendeep: lets take a look at the thread here => http://markmail.org/message/tqfinmcfwi5h6q5p#query:libebook%20openmoko%20pkg-config+page:1+mid:tqfinmcfwi5h6q5p+state:results Jul 05 12:03:19 igor321, so it may be a problem of a sucky ant ;) Jul 05 12:03:21 I think its useful for the problem we have Jul 05 12:03:51 TAsn: i guess so :) Jul 05 12:04:34 igor321, gps signals are weak as is, maybe the gets too much noise inside the device. Jul 05 12:05:18 well, two Q's, do people get it to work without the external ant? and do OM have anything to say about it? Jul 05 12:05:27 TAsn: we should wait for a couple more field reports yeah Jul 05 12:05:35 1.) they do Jul 05 12:05:41 2.) not yet they havent Jul 05 12:05:46 igor321, i c. Jul 05 12:05:57 well we should really try to prob for an answer :) Jul 05 12:06:47 they're probaby weary of a another hw revision... but gps not working as in GTA01 is a BIG issue Jul 05 12:07:08 igor321, a very big issue indeed. Jul 05 12:07:23 igor321, that's a deal buster for me. Jul 05 12:07:36 although i really need a new phone... Jul 05 12:07:45 i need one for over an year now :) Jul 05 12:07:54 oh man, me too, and my mp3 player is also broken :) Jul 05 12:08:10 igor321, same here. Jul 05 12:08:33 my mp3 player is an ipod, so you can say it came broken out of the factory ;0 though now it's really broken... Jul 05 12:08:46 igor321: please describe what exacxtly you didi to get first fix on GPS Jul 05 12:09:00 im off. :) Jul 05 12:09:09 bye TAsn Jul 05 12:09:11 igor321, try and get an answer, please :) Jul 05 12:09:16 joerg, that wasn't me Jul 05 12:09:26 it was bobkare Jul 05 12:09:28 igor321: oh sorry then Jul 05 12:10:10 and someone yesterday was also complaining, couldn't get a fix without the external ant Jul 05 12:11:21 @everybody (GPS): The antenna for GPS "looks" long axis of device. So placing the device flat on surface will make GPS ant look to horizon :-/ You have to hold upright to have good signal Jul 05 12:13:24 let's hope that that's all there is to it :-/ Jul 05 12:13:34 :\ Jul 05 12:14:57 igor321: sure! I hear statements like "placed it on my table in garden for 2h, no fix". I'm pretty sure they just lay it there, flat on table -> no fix for sure Jul 05 12:15:48 jOERG_rw: is it a patch antenna with directionial characteristics? Jul 05 12:15:57 igor321: ...pointing to the wall of their house ;-D Jul 05 12:16:11 tedo: yep Jul 05 12:16:52 lemme ask one more question? Jul 05 12:16:58 tedo: you can see from SIDE when you remove bat/back-lid. the small ceramic block on top of device Jul 05 12:17:14 in total absence of GPS does AGPS give some approximate figures? Jul 05 12:17:16 igor321: go ahead Jul 05 12:17:26 igor321: nope Jul 05 12:17:34 AGPS only provides you with almanac and ephemerides Jul 05 12:17:40 jOERG_rw: thx, i will have a look, when my devices arrives.... Jul 05 12:17:45 igor321: AGPS is just to speed up TTFF Jul 05 12:18:04 that's wha it's called assisted GPS :) Jul 05 12:18:07 why Jul 05 12:18:36 triangulation from the GSM towers is unpossible :) Jul 05 12:18:39 ? Jul 05 12:18:56 i'm talking _very_ inprecise location Jul 05 12:18:59 it's possible if you have a valid snaphot of GPS towers with their locations Jul 05 12:19:18 look at google MyLocation Jul 05 12:19:21 towers id's are unique? Jul 05 12:19:31 igor321: no, it's possible with lot's of tricks (see my post on ML on this). But it's different story than GPS Jul 05 12:19:34 igor321: yes Jul 05 12:19:39 cell id is not guaranteed to be unique Jul 05 12:20:00 it's not worth the trobule if you have GPS Jul 05 12:20:03 trouble Jul 05 12:20:04 but in a context of a country for instance? Jul 05 12:20:06 sorry for typos Jul 05 12:20:19 they should be unique? Jul 05 12:20:23 that's nota problem you can just check your current mobile operator Jul 05 12:20:45 i understand that it's useless, having gps and all Jul 05 12:20:57 but what if i'm taken hostage in an underground lair :) Jul 05 12:21:08 thren use zombie repllent Jul 05 12:21:11 cellid is supposed to be unique, combined with netid Jul 05 12:21:11 repellent Jul 05 12:21:44 not rellay, mobile operators can recconfigure their base stations and you're screwed Jul 05 12:21:55 igor321, there's a symbian\java (not sure) app that does just that. Jul 05 12:22:03 also they have mobile base stations which they deploy ocasionally Jul 05 12:22:12 it depends on a community db of ants. Jul 05 12:22:15 ccfly: nah, they don't reconfig every week or so Jul 05 12:22:20 true Jul 05 12:23:49 ccfly: look at my artikle in ML "Positioning using GSM revisited (again)" Jul 05 12:24:41 ccfly: there's a 100EUR bounty still nobody clamed, as well ;-) Jul 05 12:24:50 *claimed Jul 05 12:25:14 probably I will withdraw it soon Jul 05 12:25:41 err, earn myself ;-) by preparing the requested map Jul 05 12:25:56 jOERG_rw: what? Jul 05 12:26:13 SpeedEvil: what?! ;-) ? Jul 05 12:26:34 jOERG_rw: I was referring to the bounty. Jul 05 12:27:04 hey... I'm just wondering: is there a dual / tri band phone planned ? Jul 05 12:27:12 SpeedEvil: talking about the reward I promised to first person providing a nice map that shows my position when I made the tests Jul 05 12:27:19 Ah Jul 05 12:27:35 what tests? Jul 05 12:27:58 GSM time-advance to different BTS Jul 05 12:28:36 gives you a very precise idea of your current position, given you know where the BTS are located Jul 05 12:29:04 needs some GSM hackering though Jul 05 12:29:05 I failed to correlate those figures with position when I tried it. Jul 05 12:29:14 On my figures. Jul 05 12:29:33 These are logs of the at&EM1 or whatever? Jul 05 12:29:36 TA? Jul 05 12:29:42 yes Jul 05 12:30:02 nah, did them with a nokia6210 using monitor-mode Jul 05 12:30:06 ah Jul 05 12:30:53 SpeedEvil: U know TA is in increment of 550m ? Jul 05 12:31:16 @jOERG_rw: I'll look at this a bit later for sure, I'm very interested into this topic myself Jul 05 12:31:48 jOERG_rw: I diddn't find any nice figure on the engineering mode that seemed to correlate with TA. Jul 05 12:32:01 ccfly: so read my post on ML. it declares exactly what I did and where to find the basics Jul 05 12:32:29 SpeedEvil: I didn't find anything nice or useful in EM Jul 05 12:33:47 there's a further trick: you can't get TA for far BTS, just for the one you're associated with Jul 05 12:34:40 SpeedEvil: so you have to force-reassociate to different BTS by "bts test" or similar function, to get useful data Jul 05 12:35:55 jOERG_rw: ah Jul 05 12:35:56 I did this for ~7 BTS, and you ave their exact locations cause it's o2-germany who's sending gauss-wegener coords Jul 05 12:36:37 I posted all the raw data and promised a reward for somene making a nice map out of it. Jul 05 12:36:55 I thought you could get TA from all BTS :( Jul 05 12:37:16 probably now I will withdraw the reward, I seen it's too easy to do it myself ;-D Jul 05 12:37:41 SpeedEvil: nope. technically impossible Jul 05 12:37:55 SpeedEvil: you have to talk to BTS, to get TA Jul 05 12:38:09 SpeedEvil: can only talk to assoc BTS Jul 05 12:38:30 SpeedEvil: so have to reassociate Jul 05 12:39:14 SpeedEvil: to new BTS. send some packet. get TA for how to send packet correctly Jul 05 12:39:31 Oh well - I'll wander off to do the garden then. Jul 05 12:39:31 SpeedEvil: it's a sync tng Jul 05 12:39:39 *thing Jul 05 12:40:10 * jOERG_rw away for breakfast Jul 05 12:40:13 Yeah - I thought the handset talked occasionally to nearby BTSs to speed handoffs. Jul 05 12:40:37 SpeedEvil: nope. just listening Jul 05 12:40:51 SpeedEvil: talking nly for actual handover Jul 05 12:40:52 SpeedEvil: it is given a list by the current BTS, and only talks to another when told Jul 05 12:41:26 when C1/C2 fall below threshold Jul 05 12:42:01 it reassociates to new BTS with better C1/C2 Jul 05 12:42:53 www.nobbi.com Jul 05 12:42:54 That would explain why I failed to find a timing correlation in the engineering mode data. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 05 12:43:11 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 05 12:43:32 2008 Jul 05 12:44:13 I never got meaningful TA prior to sending some packets to BTS Jul 05 12:44:29 do "*#61#" e.g. Jul 05 12:45:14 SpeedEvil: please keep me up with every detail you find on EM! Jul 05 12:45:50 jOERG_rw: I tried to correlate every field recieved with distance from GPS logs, and found no clear data. Jul 05 12:46:31 Can I not use a 900Mhz model in the US? Jul 05 12:46:46 Can I not use a 850Mhz in Europe? Jul 05 12:46:52 loufoque: you can Jul 05 12:46:55 loufoque: you can Jul 05 12:47:03 loufoque: in some cases with some providers it may not work in some areas Jul 05 12:47:14 only just the 1800/1900 bands Jul 05 12:47:55 if you come with a 850 to Germany, you'll need to use provider E+ or o2 Jul 05 12:48:03 Some areas require 850/900. Many will work with 1800/1900. Jul 05 12:48:16 T-com and vodafone use 900 Jul 05 12:48:33 SpeedEvil: err ?? Jul 05 12:49:11 jOERG_rw: I mean - it is often possible to get service on 1800/1900 in a country by picking the right carrier. Jul 05 12:49:11 Germany is 900/1800 Jul 05 12:49:29 so the freerunner is x/1800/1900, where x = 850 or 900 ? Jul 05 12:49:31 US is 850/1900 Jul 05 12:49:34 loufoque: yes Jul 05 12:50:08 you got 850/1800/1900, so some band should always work Jul 05 12:50:28 not for every carrier though Jul 05 12:51:30 lots of providers seem to be 850-only in the US Jul 05 12:51:43 Yeah. And many infill with 850 Jul 05 12:51:55 WEll - at least one - t-mobile Jul 05 12:51:57 that's usual in US Jul 05 12:52:31 so you're always better off with a triband matching your "homezone" Jul 05 12:52:53 Or a quadband of course. Jul 05 12:53:05 Hmmmm Jul 05 12:53:15 though you may use nearly everywhere with little constraints on carriers to select from Jul 05 12:53:17 Evening all Jul 05 12:53:23 Anyone here got experience with the FR's GPS? (any experience) Jul 05 12:53:27 I cant seem to get a fix :/ Jul 05 12:53:32 at all Jul 05 12:53:39 flexd: I've used it once. Tehre are others reporting problems. Jul 05 12:53:56 flexd: how did you hld the device to get first fix? Jul 05 12:53:57 so the freerunner is a triband right ? Jul 05 12:54:02 flexd: silly things. You are outside? Or have taken it outside for 15 minutes and seen it does not get a lock? Jul 05 12:54:09 jOERG_rw: i havnet gotten a first fix Jul 05 12:54:13 SpeedEvil: I sat outside for 40minute Jul 05 12:54:14 s Jul 05 12:54:19 It was by the window for 20 Jul 05 12:54:30 yeah but how did you hold it???? Jul 05 12:54:31 flexd: Ok - you are reading from /dev/ttywhatever? Jul 05 12:54:32 im sitting next to a window (in the basement though) and it's been going for 12hours Jul 05 12:54:35 yes Jul 05 12:54:41 flexd: and getting NMEA strings? Jul 05 12:54:45 Yes Jul 05 12:54:47 flexd: though not position ones Jul 05 12:54:51 it spams NMEA unknown cmd*58 Jul 05 12:54:56 occasinally something else Jul 05 12:55:10 flexd: Ok. Do you have another GPS? Jul 05 12:55:24 flexd: And that works? Jul 05 12:55:37 I dont have another GPS Jul 05 12:55:42 flexd: go outside, hold the hing to the air, top to sky NOT FLAT, and you get FF very easily Jul 05 12:55:43 but other GPS'es work in this area yes Jul 05 12:55:45 flexd: In any case, outside for 40 minutes should get a lock Jul 05 12:55:52 It didnt Jul 05 12:56:02 I also took a car drive, took maybe 10minutes, no fix :/ Jul 05 12:56:16 * flexd thinks he should get a ladder and try the roof Jul 05 12:56:19 flexd: Many cars and windows have IR blocking on them, which may block GPS. Jul 05 12:56:21 flexd: it won't fix when you drive Jul 05 12:56:38 So i would need a external antenna to use it in a car? Jul 05 12:56:46 hmmm Jul 05 12:56:51 flexd: maybe - some cars don't do this Jul 05 12:57:11 flexd: and you can get a perfectly OK signal. The issue is that it may be confused if it's mvoing, and not lock. Jul 05 12:57:18 flexd: it will keep a lock. Jul 05 12:57:20 flexd: nah, put it UPRIGHT to the sky and wait for <12min (that's max time to get alm and efem) Jul 05 12:57:21 I could just have one with a long wire and put it out the window w/a magnetic lock to hold it in place. Jul 05 12:57:25 ah Jul 05 12:57:56 SpeedEvil: From the text i get from /dev/ttySAC1, which one of them will tell me how many satelites it has found already? Jul 05 12:58:10 flexd: GPGSV or GPGGA will Jul 05 12:58:16 it's giving SOME information that might be GPS coordinates Jul 05 12:58:22 wikipedia:NMEA Jul 05 12:58:29 flexd: however, before it picks up anything, it just spits out short sentances. Jul 05 12:58:47 It says $GPSGSV,1,1,01,26,,,11*7C Jul 05 12:58:50 for instance Jul 05 12:58:57 A valid line looks like $GPRMC,104103.00,A,5613.004578,N,00306.719811,W,000.0,358.0,150408,,,A*40 Jul 05 12:59:01 ah Jul 05 12:59:09 Or $GPGGA,104103.00,5613.004578,N,00306.719811,W,1,07,3.0,134.0,M,0.263000,M,0.0000515,*5E Jul 05 12:59:15 I have nothing like that hten Jul 05 12:59:25 These are both 56 degrees north, 3 degrees west Jul 05 12:59:36 flexd: you got no first fix yet!!!!!!!!!!! Jul 05 12:59:54 flexd: this is a purchased one? Jul 05 12:59:57 yes Jul 05 13:00:01 GO OUTSIDE, HOLD THE THING UPRIGHT... Jul 05 13:00:08 jOERG_rw: yea yea, im going Jul 05 13:00:11 flexd: there were problems with early versions but those should be fixed. Jul 05 13:00:24 But talking here and going outside does not work very well at the same time :p Jul 05 13:00:32 I guess i'll try sitting outside a bit then Jul 05 13:00:37 wave. Jul 05 13:01:14 the problem with debugging gps applications -- having to go outside all the time to test them Jul 05 13:01:18 by the way, any recommendations to which image to flash it with? Im using the one it came with atm, anything newer that works? Jul 05 13:01:28 acquiring efem and alm need signal 30dB better than normal fix later. takes up to 12min Jul 05 13:01:50 It's just a first time thing? Or will it take that long each time to get a fix? Jul 05 13:02:08 flexd: first fix will take longer Jul 05 13:02:18 k Jul 05 13:02:38 it's to "download" alm and efem Jul 05 13:02:46 takes a while Jul 05 13:02:47 Does it have to be entirely clear skies around me (e.g no house wall etc) or can i just sit outside the door Jul 05 13:02:50 OJW: GPS antennas with 3m or so cables are cheap. Jul 05 13:02:56 flexd: outside the door will work Jul 05 13:03:09 flexd: as long as you can see more than half the sky Jul 05 13:03:15 flexd: the more sky the better Jul 05 13:03:15 k hopping out the window then Jul 05 13:03:24 Noooooooo! Jul 05 13:03:33 * SpeedEvil watches flexd crash to the ground. Jul 05 13:03:38 flexd: clear sky from horizon to horizon is best. otherwise may take longer Jul 05 13:04:01 what is the status of tangoGPS? Is it usable? Jul 05 13:04:04 IME if it's got a clear view of any sat, it works. Jul 05 13:04:07 loufoque: yes Jul 05 13:04:13 SpeedEvil: Im on the first floor, so not very far down. Jul 05 13:04:14 loufoque: it's a moving map Jul 05 13:04:17 basement floor :) Jul 05 13:04:40 SpeedEvil: so it cannot calculate paths from a destination to another? Jul 05 13:04:45 loufoque: no Jul 05 13:04:48 flexd: altitude isn't the matter. direct sight to sats is Jul 05 13:05:31 loufoque: google-maps is the only way you can do that at the moment - which requires a net connection. Jul 05 13:06:00 SpeedEvil: isn't there some open-source GPS navigation system that can be ported to the freerunner? Jul 05 13:06:10 loufoque: the navigation system is the easy bit. Jul 05 13:06:17 Arrrgh! My freerunner arrived today - but I wasnt at home that time and now have to wait until monday to fetch it from the post office :( Jul 05 13:06:18 there's OSM Jul 05 13:06:19 loufoque: the maps will cost literally millions. Jul 05 13:06:25 jOERG_rw: no there isn't. Jul 05 13:06:35 SpeedEvil: ?? Jul 05 13:06:37 jOERG_rw: OSM is not suitable for routing at teh moment. Jul 05 13:06:48 SpeedEvil: oh! Jul 05 13:06:57 jOERG_rw: even in the areas where it's complete, there is no turn restrictions even. Jul 05 13:07:10 ahh I see Jul 05 13:07:19 SpeedEvil: just let people use google maps as a map source Jul 05 13:07:22 jOERG_rw: None of the major OSM tool editors has put them in, and there is just lots of debate. Jul 05 13:07:24 I think tango gps allows that Jul 05 13:07:39 loufoque: You can't route from raster maps. Jul 05 13:07:47 loufoque: and that's also not legal. Jul 05 13:08:21 loufoque: you violate googles T&Cs by downloading and storing the map tiles. Jul 05 13:08:37 who cares ;-) Jul 05 13:08:52 Google will - if the device gets popular enough. Jul 05 13:09:11 nah it's the SW, not the device Jul 05 13:09:15 SpeedEvil: if it's done by users and not by default then there is no problem Jul 05 13:09:16 a couple of hundred users of tangoGPS downloading a hundred or several meg each isn't a big issue. Jul 05 13:09:36 A few thousands might be noticable. Jul 05 13:10:03 for sure if we sell million of FR, it might becme a problem Jul 05 13:10:36 anyone know how many already got sold? Jul 05 13:10:45 1000 maybe Jul 05 13:10:49 some guy that likes risks could download them all once and redistribute them Jul 05 13:10:58 loufoque: it's terabytes Jul 05 13:10:58 truebox keep claiming to be "overwhelmed" Jul 05 13:11:21 cb22: I note the store now says 300 - up from 160 a few hours ago. Jul 05 13:11:51 SpeedEvil: what, sold FR, or remaining? Jul 05 13:11:56 SpeedEvil: nice :) i bet they know a thing or two and won't let it sell out too quickly :) Jul 05 13:12:08 loufoque: didn't maemo mapper have to change the default map tiles from google to OSM for similar reason (legality of storing and using them) Jul 05 13:12:26 what about not storing them, but using it in a browser? Jul 05 13:12:33 and have some js that plots your gps position Jul 05 13:12:45 afaik that should be perfectly legal Jul 05 13:12:47 cb22: no problem Jul 05 13:12:56 isn't there some restriction on not aligning the tiles with a GPS position more recent than a certain number of hours? Jul 05 13:13:08 I don't even see why google likes it better when you fetch them from the web than when you download them once Jul 05 13:13:30 there aren't even ads when you download them Jul 05 13:13:30 loufoque: ads! Jul 05 13:13:58 where? Jul 05 13:14:16 loufoque: turn off adp maybe ;) Jul 05 13:14:26 loufoque: they can see who wants to see what and when ;) Jul 05 13:14:29 yawn Jul 05 13:14:30 loufoque: they want to insert advertisments. those have to be up to date Jul 05 13:14:40 I miiight have got a fix now Jul 05 13:14:41 maybee Jul 05 13:14:53 Its spamming more numbers like you said, but still unknown msg*58 too Jul 05 13:15:03 and tangoggps does not agree, but im not sure it's setup right Jul 05 13:15:25 yeah right Jul 05 13:15:32 I odnt have gpsd installed :P Jul 05 13:16:02 * jOERG_rw ifdown Jul 05 13:16:05 loufoque, you can check out sygic, although commercial and closed source they claim to have a working linux version... there is a chance the iface will work nice ;) Jul 05 13:18:25 also this might sound intresting... Jul 05 13:18:26 http://www.sygic.com/sdk/index.html Jul 05 13:19:09 how is .NET sdk interesting? Jul 05 13:20:03 loufoque, didn't see it's .net, just did copy link location on an sdk link :) Jul 05 13:26:44 this is proving harder then i thought... Jul 05 13:26:58 now i cant get it on wlan again heh, and if i restart it i'll have to get a fix again :/ Jul 05 13:29:02 * pyknite just ordered his Freerunner [inlove] Jul 05 13:29:29 anyone here ordered from bearstech? Jul 05 13:29:43 pulster seems to have raised prices just today... Jul 05 13:30:19 yep, I ordered from bearstech Jul 05 13:31:22 I paid 320euro Jul 05 13:31:40 and they had some in stock Jul 05 13:32:27 I mailed pulster two day back and they said me that they already have sell the first batch... they will get some new freerunner at the end of july Jul 05 13:33:01 grml, my pulster-fr is waiting at the post office which is closed until monday. -.- Jul 05 13:33:19 arghh so long to wait Jul 05 13:33:21 ;) Jul 05 13:33:24 yep Jul 05 13:33:38 too long. seems like I gotta kill me.... oh no. NO! Jul 05 13:33:43 i hope I will get mine next week Jul 05 13:34:10 but in a sense we are waiting for month... so one or two day more it's not so difficult ;) Jul 05 13:34:38 it IS. because we have waited for so long, I dont want to wait one day longer... :D Jul 05 13:35:08 it's a different point of view ;) Jul 05 13:39:25 hmmmm Jul 05 13:39:47 Just cant get connected to my open wl an :s Jul 05 13:40:11 pyknite: when did you order from them? Jul 05 13:41:05 hello... my freerunner will arrive in august.... Currently i have vodafone(italy). Is it gonna work? Jul 05 13:41:19 on the wiki there's a bug Jul 05 13:41:23 #666 Jul 05 13:41:50 thats only for the neo1973 Jul 05 13:41:51 regarding vodafone... the last update is 5 weeks ago... any news? Jul 05 13:42:39 admiral0: you can always get another sim from vodafone Jul 05 13:42:43 so vodafone italy sim cards work with the FR? Jul 05 13:43:11 admiral0: depends on which FR you ordered Jul 05 13:43:22 i guess Jul 05 13:43:35 torito: he's not asking about frequencies :) Jul 05 13:44:05 i bougt it from bearstech(france) Jul 05 13:44:15 bought* Jul 05 13:44:27 oh Jul 05 13:44:50 admiral0: there's a possibility it won't work until the new gsm firmware Jul 05 13:45:06 but you can always get an another sim from vodafone Jul 05 13:45:36 doh Jul 05 13:45:47 wtf, rain Jul 05 13:45:50 tons of rain Jul 05 13:45:54 it was sunny a second ago :/ Jul 05 13:47:41 igor321: when will it be upgraded? Jul 05 13:47:49 igor321: just a few minute ago Jul 05 13:48:03 amiral0: i have no idea, sorry Jul 05 13:48:26 pyknite: did you get the confirmation? Jul 05 13:49:26 thanks && bye (hope my sim will work) Jul 05 13:49:46 Is it possible to get android running on neo freerunner? Jul 05 13:50:04 the third of july they say me that they have some freerunner in stock Jul 05 13:50:59 the openmokomakefile is the way to get openmoko running on your machine? Jul 05 13:56:27 Danker, not the provided binaries. It may be perhaps ported over if/when the code is actually freed. Jul 05 13:56:30 pyknite: the 2nd of july i order mine from bearstech and was told i would get it in the 2nd batch Jul 05 13:56:52 mjr: So it isn't open now? Jul 05 13:56:57 no Jul 05 13:57:03 That sucks :| Jul 05 13:58:33 hence the need for openmoko ;) Jul 05 13:59:28 torito: hu? i get this mail: http://pastebin.com/d449062de Jul 05 14:06:05 hmm, my FR just froze up completely (terminal does not like having GPS data being spit into it for too long i think), can i just unplug the battery or will that do some damage? Jul 05 14:06:13 Holding the power button in does nothing Jul 05 14:11:03 flexd: removing the battery is fine. Jul 05 14:11:08 flexd: but first, you must Jul 05 14:11:13 Dance the macarena! Jul 05 14:11:57 You can also try sshing in, to see if it responds. Jul 05 14:12:10 Sometimes it will, even if the GUI is locked. Jul 05 14:13:27 * SpeedEvil wonders if he's pinging out again. Jul 05 14:13:41 there is no reset button? Jul 05 14:16:19 pyknite: yes - it's under the battery Jul 05 14:16:30 No need for that. There are removable battery. Jul 05 14:16:30 pyknite: remove the battery, and it's automatically pressed. Jul 05 14:16:43 :D Jul 05 14:17:58 Hmm - http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif - looks like they dropped another 250 on the shop early this morning (GMT) Jul 05 14:20:36 SpeedEvil: thx Jul 05 14:22:47 On GTA01, removing the battery for up to half an hour seemed to be required for some users. Jul 05 14:22:57 To clear some conditions. Jul 05 14:23:15 I'm unsure what the maximum time to everything is reset is on the GTA02 Jul 05 14:25:36 rofl Jul 05 14:25:59 although GTA02 can run off usb power with no battery in Jul 05 14:26:08 half an hour to reset a device? it's seems a lot Jul 05 14:26:26 and AFAIK the min reason for resetting GTA01 was to make sure the gsm modem was shut down so you can slow charge the battry Jul 05 14:26:28 pyknite: yes - I haven't observed that myuselfl, 5 mins seemed fine for me. Jul 05 14:26:29 main* Jul 05 14:27:27 SpeedEvil: I got a lot of device like gta (but under win mobile) and normally just 2 sec are great Jul 05 14:43:28 Does anyone know what the "no dbus" message means in zhone? Jul 05 14:45:36 dbus is not responding/broken/missing/all of the above Jul 05 14:45:40 ? Jul 05 14:46:39 That was my guess, too, but I was hoping for something a little more specific Jul 05 14:47:18 Greetings :) Jul 05 14:48:32 Good morning Jul 05 14:49:23 SpeedEvil: woot Jul 05 14:49:33 wurp2|away_again, i get that as well, most prolly it means it couldn't register one of the objects properly....i get that when i test my code....but the battery meter still works Jul 05 14:50:11 Battery meter isn't working for me :-( Jul 05 14:50:24 Sup3rkiddo: are you on 01 or 02? Jul 05 14:51:34 02 Jul 05 14:51:52 wurp2|away_again, /usr/bin/zhone is python :D Jul 05 14:52:40 Sup3rkiddo: yeah Jul 05 14:54:49 oh yeah, the first boot doesn't work on zhone Jul 05 14:58:12 Qwell :p Jul 05 14:58:22 Dave: Jul 05 14:58:24 ? Jul 05 14:59:16 How about that shipment? Jul 05 15:01:27 hmm, i think i have a fix on the GPS now Jul 05 15:01:37 It's not showing the kind of numbers you did earlier Jul 05 15:01:53 But it's showing similar stuff (just less numbers) and tangogps seems to halfthink it has a fix. Jul 05 15:02:08 (it doesnt say no fix, but it doesnt display much usefulness either) Jul 05 15:04:01 flexd: one of the tabs on tangogps should give you some sat data Jul 05 15:04:15 How long does it take to get a fix ? Jul 05 15:04:16 it should also give you a time signal from the sat Jul 05 15:04:25 it justs says nil/nal on most stuff Jul 05 15:04:30 and the time is 1970 something :p Jul 05 15:04:39 in that case you don't have a lock Jul 05 15:04:43 Hmm okay Jul 05 15:04:51 or Jul 05 15:04:52 It didnt show that earlier though, it just said "no fix" at the map tab Jul 05 15:04:58 stupid question - does GPS return time? Jul 05 15:05:15 Yes Jul 05 15:05:18 or tangogps is not talking to gpsd Jul 05 15:05:20 Tig|: Maybe the sat's been up there since the 1970's? :p Jul 05 15:05:30 so, it could be used to keep time? seems useful Jul 05 15:05:37 Tig|: it didnt show anything before cause i had forgot to add gpsd Jul 05 15:05:41 atomic time! Jul 05 15:05:42 flexd: heh:) Jul 05 15:05:42 i installed gpsd, now it shows this. Jul 05 15:05:47 SpeedEvil, really? i thought it just sends a sync signal every X time. Jul 05 15:05:54 fle, if it shows stuff like $GPGGA,1,12,,,,,3,,4,4$ Jul 05 15:06:12 flexd: then that means that it's not got a valid position. Jul 05 15:06:28 oh, right, gps has it's own "time" Jul 05 15:06:40 flexd: it's picked up the satellites - though it may not have enough data for a solution. Jul 05 15:06:52 "GPS, Global Positioning System time, is the atomic time scale implemented by the atomic clocks in the GPS ground control stations and the GPS satellites themselves. GPS time was zero at 0h 6-Jan-1980 and since it is not perturbed by leap seconds GPS is now ahead of UTC by 14 seconds. " Jul 05 15:07:01 qwu: it will give you UTC time to within a fraction of a second. Jul 05 15:07:18 14 seconds off, and epoch + 10 years Jul 05 15:07:35 Qwell, people just don't like standards :) Jul 05 15:07:35 weird that you need the time to get the time Jul 05 15:08:55 SpeedEvil: mind checking taking a look at it for me? (You can ssh into the box remotely) Jul 05 15:09:09 flexd: sure Jul 05 15:09:09 -checking Jul 05 15:11:55 its raining like hell outside, so im not gonna go out again to get a fix Jul 05 15:12:07 Shouldn't really affect it. Jul 05 15:12:08 Oh Jul 05 15:13:14 flexd: firewall probs? Anyway - http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm Jul 05 15:13:38 You cant connect? Jul 05 15:14:13 Nope. Jul 05 15:16:14 flexd: lol when you said it just started to rain like hell after a sunny day i was surprised it happen to me as well... we live in the same place i think :) Jul 05 15:16:23 7who torito Jul 05 15:16:30 yeah heh Jul 05 15:16:30 Oslo? Jul 05 15:16:33 yeap Jul 05 15:16:45 :D where did all that water came from? Jul 05 15:16:50 No idea :/ Jul 05 15:17:01 btw, there's a bunch of us norwegians in #openmoko-no :) Jul 05 15:17:23 or, well people are speaking anyway. Most of us/them are in oslo meeting/getting their freerunners today Jul 05 15:17:24 well im not norwegian, i just live here :) im learning the language thou Jul 05 15:17:27 ah :) Jul 05 15:17:47 today?! lucky ones, i will get mine by the end of the month :( Jul 05 15:18:10 if im lucky :'( Jul 05 15:18:50 so there are no problems with norwegian 3g simcards btw? Jul 05 15:25:02 flexd: yeah - I noted that earlier on the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS#GTA02_GPS Jul 05 15:25:35 hey Jul 05 15:25:54 Xand3r: hi. Jul 05 15:26:02 i saw the openmoko on Linuxtag in berlin Jul 05 15:26:09 where i can get one? Jul 05 15:26:16 xaid|work: topic Jul 05 15:26:19 Xand3r: topic Jul 05 15:26:25 Oh Jul 05 15:26:34 that should probably have www.openmoko.com in there. Jul 05 15:28:02 thx Jul 05 15:31:52 flexd: vi Jul 05 15:35:18 much money, money i dont have -.- Jul 05 15:44:11 :D Jul 05 15:44:19 How's tricks, Speed? Jul 05 16:00:19 How can I buy from Truebox .. there seems to be no "Buy" button or so Jul 05 16:00:29 anyone from Truebox around ? Jul 05 16:01:18 CVirus: isn't that a 'Buy' button on the right at https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Shop&thiscat=8 ? Jul 05 16:01:43 it doesn't add the item to my cart Jul 05 16:01:54 CVirus: oh, no 'Add to basket'.. just saw that Jul 05 16:02:01 CVirus, Jul 05 16:02:03 did anyone apply an invisibleshield to the neo yet and can tell if it works well? (oh, rhymes...) Jul 05 16:02:04 i guess it's because they're out of stock for the 18th july order Jul 05 16:02:10 where is that ? Jul 05 16:02:14 enable javascript Jul 05 16:02:30 hmm Jul 05 16:02:32 oh, and Weiss is probably right. Jul 05 16:02:47 "Current availability for July 18th shipment:∞ Out of stock." Jul 05 16:03:14 Weiss, what were you intending to buy anyway? Jul 05 16:03:15 javascript is enabled but I can't see "Add to basket" Jul 05 16:03:27 Weiss, nvm :) Jul 05 16:03:43 CVirus, Weiss already answered you. Jul 05 16:03:49 TAsn: a Freerunner, of course :) (looks like the London group order isn't happening..) Jul 05 16:04:23 err .. sorry .. got your statement out of context .. got it now .. thanks Jul 05 16:06:20 also, there seems to be a lack of 900Mhz (European) model FRs upstream... :( Jul 05 16:25:18 does the defualt software on the neo support sending/receiving btw? Jul 05 16:25:25 of SMS messages Jul 05 16:25:59 Somebody said that yes Jul 05 16:26:41 because I read SMStool only supports sending them Jul 05 16:28:09 i don't think smstool is part of any of the default distros for neo Jul 05 16:28:58 gah Jul 05 16:29:07 one day it works, the next day, nothing -_- Jul 05 16:31:46 Pjj: yes, i've sendt and received sms Jul 05 16:32:02 tho i'm using yesterday's "today build" Jul 05 16:32:13 ok cool :) Jul 05 16:32:21 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080703/openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Jul 05 16:32:22 I tested it with the default firmware too, worked there too Jul 05 16:32:28 roger that Jul 05 16:32:34 and battery life, in 'standby' , already ordered my neo but just curious Jul 05 16:32:40 Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. Jul 05 16:33:22 hm sux how it is now, but I guess the batterylifetime is a high priority atm ? Jul 05 16:33:36 20 hours op mp3 is pretty sweet though even if it was only 10 hours Jul 05 16:33:49 Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. say Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h standby is about the limit. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. Jul 05 16:33:52 oops Jul 05 16:33:52 this is a prototype Pjj .. Jul 05 16:34:18 yeah I know but still :) Jul 05 16:34:19 speedbot strikes again Jul 05 16:34:23 Software is a prototype. Jul 05 16:34:32 The hardware can do much more than with the current software. Jul 05 16:35:11 right, otherwise it would be misleading to call the hardware GTA if it were a prototype Jul 05 16:35:23 that's true.. but there's hardware improvements witch are probable aswell.. Jul 05 16:35:41 effbiai: like? Jul 05 16:35:46 kdean06, Howdy Jul 05 16:35:49 leaking gsm chip Jul 05 16:35:55 effbiai: It doesn't. Jul 05 16:36:04 w00t? Jul 05 16:36:07 effbiai: that's only an issue with early firmware GTA01 Jul 05 16:36:13 ah Jul 05 16:36:17 hrm Jul 05 16:38:44 heh, guess i'm a little outdated =) Jul 05 16:40:35 howdy Jul 05 16:41:03 hello paulproteus Jul 05 16:41:31 FWIW, looks like this SHR will be in OE monotone. Jul 05 16:41:36 Now I just need to figure out how to create an OE monotone branch. Jul 05 16:41:39 Hello Joerg :D Jul 05 16:41:57 Dave: hi! Jul 05 16:42:30 SHR needs a name. I'm sick of all the acronyms. :P Jul 05 16:42:41 Stable Hybrid Release... Jul 05 16:42:46 Hello :) Jul 05 16:42:48 "Stable Hybrid" == chimera? Jul 05 16:42:48 I know what it is. :) Jul 05 16:42:56 That might work. :) Jul 05 16:42:57 I know, I'm just thinking aloud (-: Jul 05 16:43:21 I was thinking "Evolution" earlier, but it's both cheesy and already in use. :) Jul 05 16:44:05 I'm not too sold on chimera yet. Jul 05 16:44:19 Even stable_hybrid might be okay. Jul 05 16:44:25 It's more like testing_hybrid. Jul 05 16:45:05 Is ASU still using evolution for calendar? Jul 05 16:45:52 No, I think not. Jul 05 16:45:58 What then? Jul 05 16:48:59 How are you doing today, Joerg? :) Jul 05 16:49:28 Hmm. Maybe I should wait and see how the framework will handle pim, before I make my program Jul 05 16:50:20 Dave: considering my nausea/headache of thursday? :-) Fine again! Was a shortterm illness (though not "my" fault of day before, as you might guess) Jul 05 16:51:44 Dave: just lots of work ;-) FR sells better than expected it seems Jul 05 16:52:33 Dave: occasional audio noise on german E+ still a big mystery Jul 05 16:53:40 Dave: just collecting reports from early adopters Jul 05 16:55:15 jOERG_rw, is there a page collecting those early reports? Jul 05 16:55:28 jOERG_rw: what's the totals so far? I think about 600 through the store? Jul 05 16:55:35 Ah, good :D Jul 05 16:55:49 SpeedEvil: no idea, not my business Jul 05 16:55:55 jOERG_rw: K Jul 05 16:55:57 Joerg has better business ;) Jul 05 16:56:01 TAsn: not yet Jul 05 16:56:15 jOERG_rw, i c. that might be a good idea ;) Jul 05 16:56:25 The power problems are driving me insane. Jul 05 16:56:35 TAsn: already on my todo list Jul 05 16:56:48 jOERG_rw, cool ;) Jul 05 16:57:43 TAsn: for now the number of reports is too small to make for a decent table or summary Jul 05 16:58:30 jOERG_rw, psh. nice :) Jul 05 16:58:58 jOERG_rw, hope this will also be true without the for now... Jul 05 16:59:01 stupid power problems :( Jul 05 16:59:30 Dave: what's the problem? Jul 05 16:59:51 Many small things, which fuck up the phone [usage]. Jul 05 17:00:06 Bugs and flaws. Jul 05 17:00:14 perhaps I should write something and post it somewhere :| Jul 05 17:00:23 Dave: wait for FSO to mature ;-) Jul 05 17:00:29 I suppose Jul 05 17:01:03 :\ Jul 05 17:01:19 Dave: hw seems to be rather decent, sw is buggy still - that's known Jul 05 17:01:57 jOERG_rw, how are the distances with wifi? decent? what's the broadcast range? Jul 05 17:02:36 TAsn: probably none ever tested. For depends on AP as well Jul 05 17:03:14 jOERG_rw, of course it depends, though i assume there are measurement standards... Jul 05 17:03:41 Joerg, considering I keep having to play musical batteries! Jul 05 17:03:42 :( Jul 05 17:03:53 Not only that the charge cycle is clearly bugged. Jul 05 17:04:11 at least as far as the logic is for post-cell charge completion or something. Jul 05 17:04:21 TAsn: the chipset is known to be quite sensitive. You mustn't cover antena with your hand though, when hlding he device Jul 05 17:04:30 :o Jul 05 17:04:47 jOERG_rw, where is the ant at in the device? Jul 05 17:04:56 TAsn: on the back in the middle Jul 05 17:05:03 TAsn: near one side Jul 05 17:05:59 isn't the antenna connector right next to the sim card slot under the battery cover? Jul 05 17:06:26 That's GSM Jul 05 17:06:28 I think Jul 05 17:06:43 hrm, okay Jul 05 17:06:54 TAsn: have a look at the photos, or just open the device. can tell easily, the two green things (one BT, one WiFi) Jul 05 17:07:18 jOERG_rw, i wish i had one to look at :) Jul 05 17:07:24 So Joerg, what am I supposed to do about a device which cannot power completely? Jul 05 17:07:28 SpeedEvil: nope, GPS Jul 05 17:07:44 Leaving it connected will not charge, correct? Jul 05 17:07:56 jOERG_rw: are you sure - the GPS is on the side of the phone I thought. Jul 05 17:08:10 Dave: a candidate for "Will it Blend"? Jul 05 17:08:13 jOERG_rw: same as GTA01 Jul 05 17:08:18 Dave: correct. You have to boot, then it will charge Jul 05 17:08:29 roh, around? Jul 05 17:08:34 SpeedEvil: the other one is internal GPS Jul 05 17:08:39 Right so that's a shitty situation to be in, because my only solution is to hot battery swap, right? Jul 05 17:08:40 jOERG_rw, really? it doesn't charge when off? Jul 05 17:09:06 Dave: right. nothing bad about it though Jul 05 17:09:15 jOERG_rw, that's kinda weird :) Jul 05 17:09:21 mwester: noooo, i would take it :) Jul 05 17:09:54 Yes it is. Jul 05 17:10:15 TAsn: it has to boot, to check for max current we may draw from usb. then set up regs in PMU. then charge goes n, even when suspended or power down Jul 05 17:10:21 It's extremely inconvenient, furthermore, it's not -that- easy. Jul 05 17:10:35 Also there's a problem with charge completion. Jul 05 17:10:37 gah Jul 05 17:10:52 * Dave throws batteries at joerg Jul 05 17:10:54 jOERG_rw: can it boot from USB with a completely flat battery? Jul 05 17:11:03 Dave: usually it's quite easy: device boots automatically when USB is inserted Jul 05 17:11:28 not when it cannot fully boot though! Jul 05 17:11:44 Also when it fully charges, it begins to discharge or shut off. Jul 05 17:11:52 (boot from flat ba) that's under investigation. It should. Seems like most A6 actually do Jul 05 17:12:16 Dave: nope Jul 05 17:12:19 every time I leave them connected overnight (booted and charging), they shut off, and then cannot be powered on, until disconnected from connection for some period of time and then powered on again. Jul 05 17:12:56 Dave: for sure it doesn't. PMU keeps bat vltage at max allow level, thus trckle charging whenever needed Jul 05 17:13:55 Dave: that's a sw-issue with suspend etc. no HW-issue. will be fixed Jul 05 17:14:17 holymoly, What's the intended fix - a hard power-off at some low level of battery power? Jul 05 17:14:41 :( Jul 05 17:14:48 paulproteus: fix for WHAT? Jul 05 17:14:57 paulproteus: if it boots from USB with battery flat reliably, there is no need. Jul 05 17:15:07 Oh, good point (-: Jul 05 17:15:09 paulproteus: though that may be desired for other reasons Jul 05 17:15:18 Sorry, too early for me (-; Jul 05 17:15:18 Ah, they took off the Battery Time ban. Jul 05 17:15:27 >_> So.. How long does the battery generally last? Jul 05 17:15:32 The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h standby is about the limit. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. Jul 05 17:16:31 speedbot working quite fine ;-) Jul 05 17:16:56 I'm just wondering if I should maybe pick up the Spares pack too.. >_> Jul 05 17:16:56 those "20 hours mp3" means high cpu usage without wireless communication? or does it have a dedicated mp3 decoder? Jul 05 17:17:29 It's not high Jul 05 17:17:40 CPU usage for decoding mp3 is about 60MHz Jul 05 17:17:46 or 15% or so. Jul 05 17:17:53 The clock can be slowed down a lot. Jul 05 17:18:08 angasule: no MP3 decoder. but we may clock down CPU, it's verpowered at 400MHz for MP3 Jul 05 17:18:20 Oh yeah, and if you guys are interested I timed one of my boots yesterday, I didn't realize how long it took... it took 3m25s :( Jul 05 17:18:25 There is work in progress on frequency switching. Jul 05 17:18:34 * SpeedEvil points at cesar b. Jul 05 17:18:51 SpeedEvil: I'm interested in OM as a PDA :) Jul 05 17:19:21 angasule: for that - maybe a bit more than 6h - depending on backlight and activity. Jul 05 17:19:22 is there a possibility to get the datasheet of the cpu? Jul 05 17:19:24 * jOERG_rw goes doing decent work again. no hw-issues around here in IRC Jul 05 17:19:32 :] Jul 05 17:19:38 SpeedEvil: thanks Jul 05 17:19:40 joerg, other than my broken gps antenna :P Jul 05 17:19:48 tedo: you can appply for it at samsung. Jul 05 17:19:54 we need radioisotope batteries :) Jul 05 17:19:58 tedo: if you have an appropriate company. Jul 05 17:19:58 Dave: how did you break it? Jul 05 17:20:13 SpeedEvil: not anymore... Jul 05 17:20:39 SpeedEvil: but thx. so no chance as a private person!? Jul 05 17:20:57 I tried. Jul 05 17:21:08 They diddn't want to send it to me as a private individual. Jul 05 17:22:06 well the basic ARM specs are free. It's ust he details of 2442 SoC I think Jul 05 17:22:32 the 2440 specs are available on google. Jul 05 17:22:36 so you stll get docs on instruction set etc Jul 05 17:22:40 jOERG_rw: but they are the interesting ones... for powermanagement, sound etc Jul 05 17:23:05 tedo: 2442 is more or less like 2410 as I understand it. Jul 05 17:23:18 nah, you'd need our schematics as well. otherwise you have no idea how things really work together Jul 05 17:23:28 SpeedEvil: ok thx Jul 05 17:23:50 You can get some ideas from only the PMU datasheet and the CPU, but much without schematics is basically guesswork. Jul 05 17:24:05 jOERG_rw: that would be the best... Jul 05 17:24:37 powermgmt is much about powering down peripherals. no use in mere 2442 specs Jul 05 17:25:13 Hmm, I wonder how much power roughly is needed to boot the device. :] Jul 05 17:25:16 I should test! Jul 05 17:25:20 tedo: yeah, but I mustn't disclose those. just talk about them, as long as I like, in epic detail Jul 05 17:25:33 ok thx Jul 05 17:25:38 im away now... Jul 05 17:25:46 me too Jul 05 17:29:17 Yay, I boughted it. :D Jul 05 17:31:11 Congratulations Infinyte :p Jul 05 17:31:31 :> Jul 05 17:31:50 * Dave high-fives Infinyte Jul 05 17:32:07 * Infinyte high-fives Dave back. Jul 05 17:32:19 So the question remains, when will you get it :) Jul 05 17:32:26 I dunno Jul 05 17:32:26 :< Jul 05 17:32:38 I'm to cheap to get speedy shipping Jul 05 17:33:46 dorks Jul 05 17:34:04 will! Jul 05 17:36:57 Hey goodwill, want to send me more packages? :D Jul 05 17:37:13 sure what do you need Jul 05 17:37:16 How large was the whole tree, by the way? Jul 05 17:37:36 remember I compiled fso Jul 05 17:37:42 and just th matchbox for you Jul 05 17:37:43 Oh, yeah Jul 05 17:37:50 I did not do the whole treee Jul 05 17:39:07 Yeah I gathered that, now :P Jul 05 17:40:19 Dave: are there any changes worthy compiling fso (any main changes from milestone 1 to now) Jul 05 17:41:31 Probably nothing spectacular yet Jul 05 17:41:47 ok Jul 05 17:41:50 unless you enjoy playing with new things :] Jul 05 17:41:53 and breaking them :D Jul 05 17:42:28 I use gentoo ~amd64 and many live ebuilds; does that count? Jul 05 17:51:00 Dave are you able to replace the demo icons with real application launchers with the fso build? Jul 05 17:55:11 Unsure of yet, though it is highly likely. Jul 05 17:57:18 the question is where to put the .desktop files Jul 05 17:57:39 i tried /home/root/Desktop but that doesn't work Jul 05 18:04:16 does anyone think that there is a difference quality-wise regarding MicroSD cards (when running an operating system on them)? Is one particular brand of MicroSD better than another or are they pretty much all the same? Jul 05 18:05:32 I wouldn't think so by default. (As for performance, the cards won't be the limiting factor by a long shot.) Jul 05 18:06:35 so neo will be QT based now? Jul 05 18:07:22 gambler, There are several software stacks. Jul 05 18:07:28 i know Jul 05 18:07:39 gambler, The main one being developed by Openmoko includes Qt among many others. Jul 05 18:07:52 It runs X, so it's Qt, Enlightenment, GTK et cetera. :) Jul 05 18:07:52 kdean06, why the change Jul 05 18:07:56 So whatever you like, go for it. :) Jul 05 18:09:40 gambler: because the gtk apps weren't considered stable enough Jul 05 18:09:42 gambler, http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update/ Jul 05 18:09:51 That's not the entire truth. :) Jul 05 18:09:52 Bumbl, actually, the gsm stack wasn't Jul 05 18:10:00 There are a bunch of reasons. Jul 05 18:10:01 which is true. Jul 05 18:10:40 I still can't get GPS to work on my freerunner, think I got one of the devices with antenna problems :) Jul 05 18:17:48 is there a list of programs in the repositories available (with description) Jul 05 18:21:01 kdean06: because the openmoko devs suck, so the only viable solution was to reuse qtopia, which already exists and works Jul 05 18:21:29 Any answer that uses one line is only partially correct. :P Jul 05 18:21:49 I don't think the devs suck on general principal... Jul 05 18:22:03 Because the devs aren't the only ones making software decisions, so I think it's unfair to say that. Jul 05 18:22:16 There are several reasons. Jul 05 18:22:24 loufoque might be correct, but we have to admit that the community are the openmoko devs. Jul 05 18:22:41 There was pressure to ship a running device to begin making money. That plays a big part... Financial sponsers don't like spending money with no return. Jul 05 18:23:08 Because the community failed to come up with a software stack that works, OM management made the (admittedly questionable) decision to build something with qtopia. Jul 05 18:23:35 I don't think the Qtopia decision was bad; the timing was just *really* bad Jul 05 18:23:41 mwester, I understand that opinion... I kind of disagree. Jul 05 18:23:42 well openmoko devs worked for multiple years on the basic phone suite (dialier, contacts, sms) without producing anything good. Jul 05 18:23:45 It might also be fair to say that OM didn't exactly do much to organize the community either... Jul 05 18:24:03 I'm sure they thought they would throw something together in a month that they could call an OM release, but got the stable apps from qtopia Jul 05 18:24:20 * paulproteus waves to wurp2|away_again Jul 05 18:24:26 I've been chatting on #oe about the way to proceed, btw. Jul 05 18:24:26 work started on that suite years ago, YEARS! Jul 05 18:24:27 mwester, When someone in Openmoko Inc. can say "Do this" and override a design decision, I don't think the community of users and developers carry any burnen. Jul 05 18:24:31 paulproteus: Hey! Jul 05 18:24:35 paulproteus: Excellent Jul 05 18:24:38 s/burnen/burden/ Jul 05 18:24:39 kdean06 meant: mwester, When someone in Openmoko Inc. can say "Do this" and override a design decision, I don't think the community of users and developers carry any burden. Jul 05 18:24:44 and they just gave it up a few months ago to throw everything away and replace it by qtopia Jul 05 18:25:08 kdean06: Agreed. I'm just saying that we (the community) should have seen this a year ago, and gone off and done something ourselves. Jul 05 18:25:09 afk Jul 05 18:25:19 Understood. :) Jul 05 18:25:39 There are a lot of problems in general. :) Jul 05 18:26:28 I myself like the idea to use Qtopia. Being free software, I don't see the reason to reimplement everything, especially when the aim is to get the first phone powered by free software out and working. Also, GTK+, seems to be slow for an embedded device (and for everything). The automatic widget resize thing is cool, but it has a big price... Jul 05 18:26:52 kdean06: Yes, but there are solutions that look feasible now -- mickey and crew have designed a very good framework, and there are enough interested community folks that we should be able to get an alternative. I'm quite encouraged, actually. Jul 05 18:27:19 Yeah. Jul 05 18:27:21 I agree. Jul 05 18:27:35 I assumed that the ASU would incorporate the FSO stuff. Jul 05 18:27:44 Once it was made clear that wasn't the intent of the ASU, I lost faith. :P Jul 05 18:28:05 So I'm quite stoked abotu the FSO stuff and the I-hate-all-these-acronyms-SHR Jul 05 18:28:06 milko_: One of the big issues is that OM is using an experimental qtipia port to X; the official Qtopia for the OM is from Trolltech, and as soon as the latest image is done by them, that may be a very good alternative. Jul 05 18:28:08 is that april or august there Jul 05 18:28:14 milko_: LiFO & co are GNOME-based Jul 05 18:28:29 kdean06: You think we need something other than an acronym? :D Let's call it "fred" Jul 05 18:28:54 Qtopia isn't as open as you'd like, too. It's controlled by Trolltech/Nokia, not by a community. Jul 05 18:29:22 linuxxr: Actember. New month that will be added to the calendar whenever the ASU is ready. Jul 05 18:29:24 On the other hand, Qtopia on my GTA01 worked sluggish, not as much as OpenMoko's GTK+ apps, but still... I haven't updated my Neo software in like 6 months, so I'm not very informed how is the stuff now (I'm still trying to compile the tree the last five days :D ) Jul 05 18:29:38 loufoque, Community control doesn't really matter to me, honestly. I life Free Software, I'm not concerned with the community-driven development model. Jul 05 18:29:39 :) Jul 05 18:30:09 loufoque: You can always fork it, if something goes the wrong way :) Jul 05 18:30:09 I was about to say the same thing/ Jul 05 18:30:20 I'm sure that Free Software and openness are really valuable to me. Jul 05 18:30:23 loufoque: Correct. My objection with Qtopia is merely technical; it lacks some things I need and porting those from X to Qt is not on my to-do list anytime soon. Jul 05 18:30:33 I'm not sure whether a "community-driven" development process is a value to me or an anti-value to me. Jul 05 18:30:44 can someone point me to the best images to try the Qt stuff on my neo? Jul 05 18:31:01 AFK for a while... Jul 05 18:31:06 zooko, It depends on the situation for me. Jul 05 18:31:42 im trying : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080704/ - are these workable? Jul 05 18:32:01 The company will have more people, so the fork won't be successful. With a company-controlled software, you simply have to suffer the design choices of that company. With a community-driven development, when a company contributes they get reviewed just like anyone. Jul 05 18:32:57 kdean06: I think that's the right answer. "It depends." Jul 05 18:35:00 I like the innovation pushed by community driven models and I like the stability of a commercially driven approach. In general, it's the competition between the two that benefits me, not either model. So I'm happy that Qtopia works on the hardware, and community driven things too. :) Jul 05 18:35:33 paulproteus: Do you have a picture of how we can identify snapshots of OE that we put out in releases? Jul 05 18:36:02 . mickey|zzZZzz was saying that he didn't see why we should branch OE, with which I agree, but I would like to be able to label Jul 05 18:36:54 Well, I've got to drive out to pick up my wife. G'day all. Jul 05 18:37:28 kdean06: I myself believe that those two are illusions. A community can create a solid stable software, even more than a company can do. And the innovation in the community is something I don't see that much. The difference lies that the community is free and devotes its time to improving the software, which might be the case with the company. On the other hand, the community might fail. :) Jul 05 18:37:31 wurp2|away_again, mwester was very helpfully explaining to me that we should develop on the org.oe.dev branch, and just have a different target. Jul 05 18:38:04 paulproteus: How do we choose what version of the files is going into the release? It makes me really uncomfortable not to have reproducible releases Jul 05 18:38:06 I don't know of a way to label "try this build" except to do a build, test it, and then release the JFFS/uimage etc. Jul 05 18:38:12 openmoko software is also controlled by a company Jul 05 18:38:20 wurp2, In the future we'll use bitbake files for the reproducible building. Jul 05 18:38:37 Once we get to the point of having software to release! Jul 05 18:38:45 paulproteus: Well, we can label all files in the repo with a build #, then go back & add a release label if the build is good Jul 05 18:38:51 Yes. Jul 05 18:39:19 paulproteus: So we'll have permissions to do that? Jul 05 18:39:20 maybe a section at linux questions.org would be a good solution Jul 05 18:39:50 hello ppl... I have being away for a while and ones freerunner is out, i have taken a look at the project again... But it seems to be hard now to get a grib on what is the software stack to start doing sw... any off the hand clarifications? Jul 05 18:39:55 wurp2, We can do it in the OE repo, is what mwester suggested. Jul 05 18:40:30 paulproteus: OK, great. I just wasn't sure we would have permissions to apply labels. Jul 05 18:40:57 I'm not gonna be able to stay on very long; my middle son's bday party is today Jul 05 18:41:06 And I have to go meet some friends for dim sum. (-: Jul 05 18:41:10 I finally got a good build on my machine :-) Jul 05 18:41:15 I'll try to write up an updated process document by the end of the day. Jul 05 18:41:17 Yay (-: Jul 05 18:41:21 I had to unset all my environment variables Jul 05 18:41:27 paulproteus: Excellent! Jul 05 18:41:37 I think my INCLUDE was the culprit Jul 05 18:42:34 afk again :-( Jul 05 18:45:56 the weird thing about the move to qtopia is it seems strange because nokia snapped up trolltech Jul 05 18:46:01 seems to be uncertainty there Jul 05 18:46:18 a GAMBLE, perhaps? ;D Jul 05 18:46:23 how is that uncertain? Jul 05 18:46:26 Personally I think people underestimate the effective freedom that Free Software provides. Jul 05 18:46:29 That is: Jul 05 18:46:38 its _more_ certain now Jul 05 18:46:47 I think it is a reasonable strategy to think that you can rely on Qtopia without actually being vulnerable to Nokia messing with you. Jul 05 18:47:10 Maybe I'm wrong. Hard to tell. If you're a businessperson or a strategist then you get to make up your mind and roll the dice. :-) Jul 05 18:47:31 lpotter, no one knows whats in the mind of corporate bosses. i have a greenphone in my cupboard i can show you Jul 05 18:47:31 why would nokia mess with qtopia? Jul 05 18:47:33 tech companies are bought all the time to sink their products. Jul 05 18:48:04 greenphone was never meant to be anything but a development platform... like a reference platform Jul 05 18:48:25 does anyone have qtopia-4.3.1-neo-flash.tgz and could have sendt it to me? - http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=48 does not work.. Jul 05 18:48:53 lpotter: nokia wouldn't mess with qtopia, but they could use qtopia to mess with openmoko Jul 05 18:49:22 why would we do that? we are using the neo/freerunner to further qtopia Jul 05 18:49:50 Oh, lpotter is a Nokia employee? Jul 05 18:49:57 yes Jul 05 18:50:03 Cool. Jul 05 18:50:03 hah :> Jul 05 18:50:14 lpotter, mmmkay Jul 05 18:50:30 lpotter: if Nokia's phone line-up is ever threatened by an openmoko device, I'd expect the corporate bosses to try _anything_ to undermine the competition Jul 05 18:50:33 lpotter: the you prolly could send me qtopia-4.3.1-neo-flash.tgz? ;) Jul 05 18:51:05 lpotter: although I don't think that's really going to be possible before GTA09 or so :> Jul 05 18:51:23 right.. nokia being threatened by little openmoko? Jul 05 18:51:39 Indeed, it would be immoral and illegal of Nokia's corporate bosses not to do so, since they've accepted lots of money from investors on the agreement that they will do their best to repay those investors. Jul 05 18:51:49 lpotter: IBM being threatened by little Microsoft ;) Jul 05 18:52:09 zooko: not true, there's no legal requirement for companies to make money Jul 05 18:52:28 anyway, as long as it's free software, OpenMoko can always fork Jul 05 18:52:39 zooko: there's not really even a legal requirement for companies to do what non-voting shareholders want, people can sell their shares Jul 05 18:52:49 doc|home, yes there is - if they are publically traded Jul 05 18:52:56 effbiai: those were removed Jul 05 18:53:01 why= Jul 05 18:53:02 ? Jul 05 18:53:04 There is no legal requirement for companies to make money, in general, but if a company (or an officer thereof) accepts investment from investors while promising those investors that it will attempt to repay them, Jul 05 18:53:11 effbiai: I will work this week on getting updated images/files up Jul 05 18:53:29 gambler: make money? nope. Corporations can do what they like, most attempt to make money, but that doesn't have to be their sole purpose. Jul 05 18:53:29 roger Jul 05 18:53:33 and then the company (or officer thereof) doesn't make a good faith attempt to live up to their end of the bargain, then they are (arguably) morally and (possibly) legally in the wrong. Jul 05 18:53:45 * mwester is eager to try out the latest Qtopia images. Jul 05 18:53:57 zooko: ah, yes, well that's different :) then he has made a claim that he's trying to make money. Jul 05 18:53:58 effbiai: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/news/ Jul 05 18:54:20 may need to save that last non nokia Qtopia image Jul 05 18:54:29 zooko: but at the same time, companies don't have to screw each other over to make money. Jul 05 18:54:40 Hello Mr. Doc. Jul 05 18:54:50 hello Dave Jul 05 18:55:02 * polz falls to his knees before mwester Jul 05 18:55:08 before it somehow gets changed Jul 05 18:55:14 argh, i should have seen it coming and saved it sooner :> Jul 05 18:55:23 thankyouthankyouthankyou for getting my phone to suspend & resume Jul 05 18:55:57 polz: np! Jul 05 18:56:27 its been awhile since i left my machine all night compiling openmoko. is it easier to compile now? A VM/snapshots system like TT put out with greenphone would be nice Jul 05 18:56:29 Do we have a time for full cell charge cycle? Jul 05 18:56:46 doc: that makes sense. I enjoy thinking about the conflicting, complicated relationships that arise. Companies simultaneously have a moral obligation to their shareholders while arguably a moral obligation to others, such as their customers. I don't believe that, in general, these obligations are mutually consistent. Jul 05 18:57:01 btw, which is the best kernel image to use with gsmd (+GTK apps) currently ? Jul 05 18:57:04 Well, that was fun. Maybe we should create #philosophy. I'll bet there already is one. Jul 05 18:59:20 * zooko joins #philosophy Jul 05 19:00:36 take commie|home with you Jul 05 19:00:56 T-mobile uses GSM 1900... on openmoko.com though it says its available in 850 and 900.. is 1900 = 900? because I didnt see any 900's at all on the chart i was looking at but the 900 version one is the one thats sold out.. Jul 05 19:01:26 atleast no gsm 900 from US carriers that i could tell.. Jul 05 19:01:31 ~triband Jul 05 19:01:35 ~gsm Jul 05 19:01:36 i guess gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both. Jul 05 19:01:54 zooko: Unfortunately, a company is not a human being, therefore 'moral obligations' do not exist when you are talking about one, especially big, public one. Now, that aside, it has moral obligations to more than just its customers and shareholders. :) Now the law was supposed to take care of this, but does it? :) Jul 05 19:02:02 cl0s_: you're in the US and you want 900!? Jul 05 19:02:14 loufoque, he doesn't know what he wants Jul 05 19:02:19 no I wasnt sure if that was the same as 1900.. Jul 05 19:02:23 because i didnt see any 900 ons the list Jul 05 19:02:24 it is not Jul 05 19:02:28 I should have specified corporate officers when I was talking about moral obligations. Jul 05 19:02:31 but i guess thats because its europe.. Jul 05 19:02:39 850, 900, 1800 and 1900 are all different numbers Jul 05 19:02:42 thanks.. so i guess all i can really do is get att if i want one.. Jul 05 19:02:51 and thats on 850 which is still not sold out Jul 05 19:03:09 you can buy 900 from quite a number of resellers in europe Jul 05 19:03:21 cl0s_, read what apt said Jul 05 19:03:23 yea but no US carrier is going to support that.. Jul 05 19:03:43 why would you want 900 if you leave in the US? Jul 05 19:03:51 HE DOESN'T Jul 05 19:03:54 no i dont.. Jul 05 19:03:55 lol Jul 05 19:04:00 then why is he talking about US carriers? Jul 05 19:04:01 sheesh Jul 05 19:04:09 loufoque, shut up and read what he's said Jul 05 19:04:11 thanks mjr and apt though, i understand now.. Jul 05 19:04:18 cl0s_, and you, get the 850 version Jul 05 19:04:36 yea thats perfect because its all thats left on openmoko.com Jul 05 19:04:39 problem solved Jul 05 19:05:25 alright well thanks for everything! cant wait to get mine Jul 05 19:06:42 the apt band line is suboptimally phrased, though "The other two bands in both" what? it should say, "The other two bands are supported by both Freerunner models" Jul 05 19:06:57 :| Jul 05 19:08:04 macdonalder: ping? Jul 05 19:08:22 ding Jul 05 19:08:38 dong Jul 05 19:08:58 * doc|home showers Jul 05 19:12:20 as anyone booted Debian on the MicroSD yet on the FR? Jul 05 19:12:29 a/as/has* Jul 05 19:17:24 hm.. would ubuntu mobile run on the freerunner? Jul 05 19:21:16 ecraven: is it possible to get ubuntumoble? Jul 05 19:21:27 don't think so, think it's made only for some intel processor Jul 05 19:21:41 yeh, what i thought Jul 05 19:22:08 i was just wondering, but it probably needs a faster processor and more memory Jul 05 19:22:20 ah, i can't wait, so many hours until monday, when i get my freerunner! Jul 05 19:22:32 ecraven: speccs are here http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile Jul 05 19:23:04 ecraven: hehe, it's a cool device =) i've played with mine since Wedensday. Tho there's a lot of work witch need to be done Jul 05 19:23:24 yeah ubu mobile is heavier stuff Jul 05 19:23:40 effbiai: i'm mostly interested in how to remove everything but phone and text from my phone :) and then maybe add a few more things later Jul 05 19:24:13 heh, the shipped software aint much more than that :P Jul 05 19:26:38 well i see that there is this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Jul 05 19:27:08 so i suppose the modules and the kernel/zImage need to be changed to work with the FR i assume Jul 05 19:31:31 ooh, that looks nice, i'll have to try that :) Jul 05 19:31:54 muwahaha Jul 05 19:32:35 doc|home: ring ring ring Jul 05 19:32:55 macdonalder: soon ;) you in? Jul 05 19:33:02 macdonalder: no response from other person Jul 05 19:33:09 anyone got their phone Jul 05 19:33:12 yet? Jul 05 19:33:20 yup, take my money before I spend it all on hookers and blow Jul 05 19:33:25 haha Jul 05 19:33:30 lol Jul 05 19:33:34 Railer: got it on wedensday Jul 05 19:33:36 ;) Jul 05 19:33:47 i get mine monday :s Jul 05 19:33:56 macdonalder: when and where suits you? I want to go to mountain equipment coop on broadway Jul 05 19:34:00 so I'll be closeish Jul 05 19:34:17 I should be able to make it there Jul 05 19:34:31 macdonalder: how about blenz on broadway and granville at 3pm? Jul 05 19:34:42 yup, I can do that Jul 05 19:34:49 I've some laundry to do first :) Jul 05 19:35:27 heh, yes... please do that firsrt Jul 05 19:35:40 haha Jul 05 19:35:45 * doc|home out Jul 05 19:35:49 see you then Jul 05 19:35:54 yup, later Jul 05 19:36:18 macdonalder: see pm Jul 05 19:39:40 By the way Jul 05 19:39:52 ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported Jul 05 19:39:53 Failed to set encryption. Jul 05 19:40:05 x4 is what im getting when trying to use wpa_supplicant on FR Jul 05 19:40:18 * Bumbl has the same problem with wpa2 Jul 05 19:40:31 Bumbl: Im using WPA2 aswell Jul 05 19:40:44 anyone managed to connect to gsmd on FR via cu? Jul 05 19:43:10 flexd, seems to be a kernel bug/configuration failure; I couldn't reproduce the error on om-latest kernel though, but I can't connect to the internet although I get an IP; resolv.conf is correct and the router lists the freerunner as connected Jul 05 19:44:16 Bumbl, tried pinging? Jul 05 19:44:30 tried sniffing what's sent using another computer? Jul 05 19:44:33 Bumbl: trying with just WPA now Jul 05 19:44:39 tried turning enc off? Jul 05 19:44:40 still no go :/ Jul 05 19:44:45 flexd: any GPS results? Jul 05 19:44:45 TAsn: turning encryption off works fine Jul 05 19:44:54 SpeedEvil: Nah, it's too wet outside Jul 05 19:45:00 K Jul 05 19:45:01 i cant be arsed to stay outside :p Jul 05 19:45:01 flexd, so the problem is with the wpa, i c. Jul 05 19:45:11 TAsn: the problem is with encryption itself i think Jul 05 19:45:11 well try to sniff using another computer... Jul 05 19:45:22 Im not that advanced ;) Jul 05 19:45:32 but wpa_supplicant works Jul 05 19:45:34 atleast for open networks Jul 05 19:45:39 I havent tried wep yet Jul 05 19:45:41 will do now Jul 05 19:46:04 flexd, well, the only way to know what's happening is sniffing :) Jul 05 19:46:24 p Jul 05 19:46:26 flexd, is it possible you forgot you wap pass? ;0 Jul 05 19:46:30 yep Jul 05 19:46:32 wpa* Jul 05 19:46:42 brian starts sniffin 'round Jul 05 19:47:00 linuxxr, can you smell the summer? Jul 05 19:47:17 its not quite made it Jul 05 19:47:19 all the flowers and the cooked people skins? Jul 05 19:47:37 * macdonalder adds paprika Jul 05 19:47:42 y too much lawn to mow still Jul 05 19:47:47 aaargh Jul 05 19:47:55 I must learn not to press ctrl+z in terminal -_- Jul 05 19:47:55 fletch, not even with wep? Jul 05 19:48:09 it pauses the screen, and i have no idea how to get it working again :( Jul 05 19:48:12 flexd, hehe, i also hate that :) Jul 05 19:48:22 flexd: do you mean ctrl-s? Jul 05 19:48:23 anyone know the key to "unpause" it? Jul 05 19:48:26 flexd, i think using kill -something Jul 05 19:48:28 flexd: If so - ctrl-q Jul 05 19:48:39 flexd, he means z Jul 05 19:48:40 What exactly are we making here? :D Jul 05 19:48:48 i need me sniffer setup before the freerunner gets here Jul 05 19:48:49 What's cookin' doc? Jul 05 19:48:50 roasted people Jul 05 19:48:53 SpeedEvil: try pressing ctrl+z in a terminal Jul 05 19:48:57 flexd: XON and XOFF - flow control. ctrl-s and ctrl-q Jul 05 19:49:18 flexd: I know what it does in a normal terminal - basically nothing. Jul 05 19:49:18 it was control+z Jul 05 19:49:32 crtl+s/q does nothing Jul 05 19:49:33 yeah it suspends a process Jul 05 19:49:40 (ctrl+z rather) Jul 05 19:49:43 a live cd sniffer is what i need Jul 05 19:49:53 type 'fg'? Jul 05 19:50:04 macdonalder: which shouldn't do anything for a running shell. Jul 05 19:50:15 oh... no Jul 05 19:50:16 macdonalder: ah thats the thing yea Jul 05 19:50:18 but i cant type anything Jul 05 19:50:46 :S Jul 05 19:51:01 just closed it and started again Jul 05 19:51:56 I want to make a cable to use my Neo as a USB host. How do I connect the wires? I just cut two A->mini B cables, do I connect green to green, and white to white, or green to white, white to green? Jul 05 19:52:08 same to same Jul 05 19:52:19 Thanks Jul 05 19:55:10 WEP does not seem to work either Jul 05 19:55:11 same problem Jul 05 19:55:22 so the problem lies in using encryption on the FR in general (with this image) Jul 05 19:56:52 flexd, at least you narrowed it down :) Jul 05 19:57:01 :) Jul 05 19:57:09 Up to some kernel hacking wiz to fix it now i gues :p Jul 05 19:57:11 +s Jul 05 19:57:17 never played with wpa and wpa_supplaint Jul 05 19:57:34 but is there a way to test wep without wpa supplaint? Jul 05 19:57:39 suppliant* Jul 05 19:58:14 TAsn: imho for wep you don't need wpa_supplicant Jul 05 19:58:33 tedo, that is obvious Jul 05 19:58:35 i meant Jul 05 19:58:55 yes there is Jul 05 19:59:00 just plain Jul 05 19:59:03 iwconfig eth0 key Jul 05 19:59:06 ifupdown Jul 05 19:59:10 i wanted to know, and wrote it poorly, that is there a way to use wep with wpa suppliant and is he using it? Jul 05 19:59:17 if so, maybe testing without that app Jul 05 19:59:22 (wep without that app) Jul 05 19:59:36 maybe the app is the problem and not something else... Jul 05 19:59:54 could be Jul 05 20:00:27 btw... how stable is the WLAN on the FR? Jul 05 20:00:38 any issues? Jul 05 20:00:50 TAsn: ok :) Jul 05 20:00:52 TAsn: I'm just reading here. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan Jul 05 20:00:56 ScaredyCat: EHLO Jul 05 20:01:02 For the wpa_supplicant suggestion Jul 05 20:01:19 swc|666, as it seems encryption is not working Jul 05 20:01:37 flexd, i mean, shut that thing off, and use wep without it. Jul 05 20:01:57 Problem is that my network is WPA2 encrypted, and sadly i still live at home, if i remove it my dad will complain thinking it's the most hazardous thing in the world and they'll get hacked and money stolen etc etc (and the list goes on) Jul 05 20:01:59 see if the app is broken or something mysterious Jul 05 20:02:04 I mean aside from encryption... Jul 05 20:02:04 will try Jul 05 20:02:10 flexd, try the configuration of the second post http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=219 Jul 05 20:02:41 swc|666, as far as I know it is working well Jul 05 20:02:50 cool Jul 05 20:03:21 someone of the forum above has successfully connected to wpa too Jul 05 20:03:25 Bumbl: it's obvious that that will work, while something with wpa_supplicant makes it either unable to set the encryption, or something in the kernel does not permit it. Jul 05 20:03:26 i wonder does the driver support injection? Jul 05 20:03:44 I dont have a WEP encrypted network, so i cant try it atm (cba changing encryptions yet again :p) Jul 05 20:03:49 flexd: you should have a look at the logfiles or enable verbose mode of wpa_supplicant Jul 05 20:03:59 swc|666, as for now it doesn't even support monitor mode Jul 05 20:04:09 really :/ Jul 05 20:04:19 promocious mode is even harder to implement i think Jul 05 20:05:15 * messed it up; Promiscuous Mode is monitor mode Jul 05 20:05:15 i may try to use a USB card Jul 05 20:05:34 tedo: im not sure there is a log Jul 05 20:05:37 yes that might work Jul 05 20:05:39 Bumbl, damn, that thing is important :) Jul 05 20:05:41 WPA works with FR thought Jul 05 20:05:53 I can run wpa_supplicant not as a deamon though Jul 05 20:06:36 ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported Jul 05 20:06:36 ioctl[SIOCGIWSCAN]: Resource temporarily unavailable Jul 05 20:06:40 Basically what comes out Jul 05 20:06:41 Tons of it Jul 05 20:06:41 TAsn, I have read on the mailinglist that it is a firmware limitation but that atheros will probably implement it in future Jul 05 20:07:39 Bumbl, i don't think there is a way that won't be a firmware limitation... (or driver) i mean it can't be hw... Jul 05 20:07:52 flexd: so your wireless driver does not match your wpa_supplicant config Jul 05 20:07:56 flexd, don't you think that's the issue? :) Jul 05 20:08:13 well cya guys, gn. Jul 05 20:08:21 tedo: that makes sense. Jul 05 20:08:34 my wpa_supplicant config mentions nothing of a wireless driver though. Jul 05 20:08:41 TAsn: nn Jul 05 20:08:42 maybe because it's not a PRIMS2 :P Jul 05 20:08:46 flexd: hostaps is imho only for prism chipsets Jul 05 20:09:04 tedo: hmmm, so wpa_supplicant was compiled for a prism2 card Jul 05 20:09:12 and jammed into a phone with no prism2 card Jul 05 20:09:14 Intersting :p Jul 05 20:09:17 you need to specify that you use atheros driver Jul 05 20:09:32 -Wsomething in the commandline i think Jul 05 20:09:48 checking Jul 05 20:09:50 -Wext Jul 05 20:09:53 i think Jul 05 20:10:11 can do -p for driver parameters Jul 05 20:10:20 -D for driver name? Jul 05 20:10:34 i think so Jul 05 20:11:25 adding -d atheros seemed to do nada, same errors Jul 05 20:11:29 * flexd googles wpa_supplicant Jul 05 20:11:47 http://hostap.epitest.fi/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=hostap.git;a=blob_plain;f=wpa_supplicant/README Jul 05 20:12:11 flexd, which rootfs image do you use? Jul 05 20:12:56 what is the name of the wireless driver, madwifi or is this the generic linux driver? Jul 05 20:13:23 -> try -Dmadwifi or -Dwext Jul 05 20:13:28 it isn't madwifi Jul 05 20:14:01 so -Dwext should do the job Jul 05 20:21:04 i just flashed the qtopiax11 image on my freerunner and am wondering how i can enter the pin number when the onscreen keyboard only show characters. any hint? :D Jul 05 20:22:03 that's my question as well Jul 05 20:22:46 Also operator selection would be nice Jul 05 20:23:05 And I do know it's the open source world, where I can do it myself Jul 05 20:23:23 I'm only announcing an itch I can't scratch just now :> Jul 05 20:24:59 flexd, and did you have success Jul 05 20:25:05 http://sial.org/pbot/31485 Jul 05 20:25:27 that is the output of the wpa_supplicant command Jul 05 20:26:22 Bumbl: ah, what did you do? Just add -c/etc/w ? Jul 05 20:26:36 if i want to play with the kernel, i need to apply the pathset to vanilla kernel 2.6.22.5? Jul 05 20:26:37 wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf Jul 05 20:26:44 Thats exactly what i did.. Jul 05 20:26:44 (for GTA2) Jul 05 20:27:07 flexd: add a -Dwext to the call Jul 05 20:27:08 using the following image: Jul 05 20:27:09 Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080704-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 05 20:27:46 tedo: now it does alot of Input/output errors in addition to the operation not supported Jul 05 20:29:03 flexd: thats bad, but the wireless driver is loaded? Jul 05 20:40:48 I just found something genious Jul 05 20:40:49 wpa_cli Jul 05 20:41:01 You can see what it's doing in real time :) Jul 05 20:41:09 :D Jul 05 20:43:02 hi Jul 05 20:43:41 wpa_cli is nice Jul 05 20:44:21 hello, is there somebody that has already received his Freerunner? anyone from bearstech? i have some questions about the hardware guarantee(if it's an international guarantee),the power adapter(what kind of power adapter is it E.E+F C? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_systems )...) and if the hardware works well... Jul 05 20:49:17 Gnutoo: it is an usb power adapter working with American British and European electric sockets, bearstech has to provide 24 months guarantee because they are an European shop, the hardware itself works well, the software works basically Jul 05 20:50:24 Bumbl, ok thanks a lot but is it an international guarantee? Jul 05 20:51:53 if the freerunner is broken you might have to send it back to bearstech because fic guarantees afaik only 2 months and they have to handle it Jul 05 20:52:31 Bumbl, ok thanks a lot Jul 05 20:53:05 do they warranty you self bricking? Jul 05 20:53:33 prooobably not Jul 05 20:53:47 Railer! Jul 05 20:53:47 but then you can't brick the neo by incorrect flashing Jul 05 20:53:58 you have to brick it with a brick, or something Jul 05 20:54:02 mjr, in this case you need the debug board Jul 05 20:54:14 Gnutoo, yes, but then you can also unbrick it Jul 05 20:54:25 anyone know where i can find a list of the software it will come with stock? Jul 05 20:55:08 will the GPS have GPS software? calendar? browser? Jul 05 20:55:14 Railer: no Jul 05 20:55:28 Dave where the hell are you, lets go for a beer! Jul 05 20:55:35 Railer: If you're expecting it to be a functional phone - it's not really at the momnt Jul 05 20:55:51 Railer: as to GPS - google tangogps Jul 05 20:56:01 Railer: in the first 6 months they have to bring evidence that you bricked it and not a hardware/software failure/bug Jul 05 20:56:04 so can it make a phone call? Jul 05 20:56:34 Railer: There are variants of the software that can. Jul 05 20:56:50 yes Jul 05 20:56:57 Railer: the software isn't stable that you can expect every build to work. Jul 05 20:56:58 and send sms Jul 05 20:57:00 is the neo currently usable? or am i just buying a programming toy? Jul 05 20:57:15 and receive; even with the shipped image Jul 05 20:57:16 Railer: it's usable - to a very limited extent. Jul 05 20:57:33 Railer: It is largely a programming toy at this stage. Jul 05 20:58:01 lovely, how soon do you think anything is going to work? Jul 05 20:58:05 Railer, where are you!? Jul 05 20:58:17 Edmonton Jul 05 20:58:19 Railer, come down to NYC :P Jul 05 20:58:21 Railer: several weeks at the absolute least. Jul 05 20:59:00 ok several weeks is fine, I was thinking 6 months to never is the issue Jul 05 20:59:31 brother just left nyc for seattle Jul 05 20:59:37 Railer: I wouldn't expect it to be a consumer ready phone before at the absolute earliest 6 months. Jul 05 20:59:50 lots of advertizing Jul 05 21:00:04 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080703/bs_nf/60618;_ylt=AiYYqG7fkKHxh9H_Yc2FyEaor7oF Jul 05 21:00:28 plans on the gta03/ Jul 05 21:00:31 well if it works a little and I have it first, that's all that's important Jul 05 21:00:31 ? Jul 05 21:00:55 computer shop frenzy;) Jul 05 21:01:37 linuxxr: who knows if these are real or bull. Jul 05 21:01:46 does notepad work? Jul 05 21:01:51 linuxxr: /me wishes on actual prompt releases rather than just leaks. Jul 05 21:01:57 Railer: what do you mean? Jul 05 21:02:21 can i demo the kb? Jul 05 21:02:41 Hey, anyone know how big the available application area is on ASU? :) Jul 05 21:02:45 Railer: the keyboard is a lot broken right now. Jul 05 21:02:45 yea that right Jul 05 21:02:50 leinir: ? Jul 05 21:02:56 is there a browser that wifi useable? does wifi even work? Jul 05 21:02:59 leinir: you can install stuff to SD Jul 05 21:03:22 Railer: basically - at the moment if you're not a programmer, wait a couple of months. Jul 05 21:03:47 Railer: it works for some people but not for me Jul 05 21:03:51 linuxxr: As in, the screen area available to applications - or, rather, how large is the screen area taken up by Illume :) Jul 05 21:03:51 Bumbl, wiat do you mean by european electric sockets...because for instance italy has not the same socket than france... Jul 05 21:03:55 august software update Jul 05 21:04:12 SpeedEvil: Gah, my bad - not space like that, screen realestate :) Jul 05 21:04:27 well im a programmer, but would like some features Jul 05 21:04:29 leinir: ah Jul 05 21:05:47 i'm just playing around, but if you've ever seen a Tenori-On, you'll likely have some idea what i'm aiming for :) Jul 05 21:05:48 Railer: At the moment, it's outperformed by the cheapest phone you can buy - as a phone. There is slightly functional other software. QEMU can emulate the phone. Jul 05 21:06:39 :( fso-image isn't building :( Jul 05 21:07:17 or, maybe it is completing, and its just some errors on the packages.. bah Jul 05 21:07:38 Gnutoo: the one I got does have one which looks like B C E F G I think Jul 05 21:08:25 So, anyone know it off hand, or or am i gonna look at screenshots with kruler? ;) Jul 05 21:08:43 * leinir preempts the answer to that one by looking for screenshots ;) Jul 05 21:09:08 i have to go; have a nice day Jul 05 21:09:28 Bumbl, so a lot of adapters comes with it when you buy it from bearstech? Jul 05 21:12:17 son of a whore, ms install driver issues, brb Jul 05 21:12:43 ms is the problem :D Jul 05 21:13:40 i'm running 4 computers right now, 1 vista, 2 xp, 1 ubuntu, gets a little confusing Jul 05 21:14:43 Wow... That thing's kind of large - 66 pixels tall :) Jul 05 21:15:03 Railer: why are you running vista and xp? Jul 05 21:15:05 Oh well, makes fair sense that it should be big, what with finger-control and such :) Jul 05 21:15:09 vista < xp <<<< ubuntu < debian Jul 05 21:15:16 why do you use 4 computers? Jul 05 21:16:12 hello, Bumbl has quit...has anyone else bought from bearstech and received his Freerunner? Jul 05 21:17:09 ahh cause a lot of the stuff a do requires clean systems, and once job done rebuilt Jul 05 21:18:43 I have like 20 valid xp licences i cycle through Jul 05 21:21:15 Railer, why not using virtual machine: snapshot before,restore snapshot after Jul 05 21:21:22 put slackware on everything Jul 05 21:21:40 Railer, or use dd if= of= to snapshot your hdd Jul 05 21:22:09 linuxxr: Put slackware on a nokia 3210 ;) Jul 05 21:22:14 vm's dont always work correctly, still not use to them Jul 05 21:22:23 ok Jul 05 21:22:46 but I am starting to build my own special vm's Jul 05 21:23:12 Railer, wow...will it be free(as in freedom) ? Jul 05 21:24:08 yes, once figured out Jul 05 21:24:23 ok Jul 05 21:24:54 the other thing is the cpu speeds are not the best with vm's and sometimes I need the full cpu Jul 05 21:26:33 like openmoko, you want a vm of ubuntu to then vm openmoko and qemu? gonna get ssslllloooowww Jul 05 21:27:05 hmm, anyone have any screenshots of the sms app in the current build? Jul 05 21:27:12 (stuff is still building locally) Jul 05 21:27:19 Railer: xen is native speed Jul 05 21:27:30 hi Jul 05 21:33:38 Railer, openmoko is arm, your cpu is x86...so you must emulate all the arm cup...that's why it's slow... Jul 05 21:34:01 Native slowness? :p Jul 05 21:34:03 Railer, kqemu speeds up things but that's for x86->x86 only Jul 05 21:34:22 what the current mail application in openmoko in asu and/or gtk+ Jul 05 21:34:24 anyone know? Jul 05 21:34:30 Railer, or mabe also x86-64 not shure Jul 05 21:34:46 but understand it's cleaner and faster just to set up a new fresh unbuntu, not vm'ed Jul 05 21:35:14 bkruse: vista < xp <<<< ubuntu < debian < gentoo :-P Jul 05 21:36:32 goodwill: I used to <3 gentoo, and I go back occasionally :) Jul 05 21:36:46 besides all the machines are running something, why share cpu cycles when I dont have to? Jul 05 21:36:58 other then vm is cool of course Jul 05 21:37:01 bkruse: what happened man?? what happened to you :) Jul 05 21:38:45 goodwill: I had to recompile to many things that I didn't care about :P Jul 05 21:38:47 can I remote the screen of an openmoko device :) Jul 05 21:38:49 MokoMakefile, question. It doesn't say explicitly that gcc 4.2.3 *Won't* work, but it says you need 3.4 or 3.3 implying that it won't, but then again those could be minimums. Jul 05 21:38:50 Before I go rolling back gcc, do I really need to? Jul 05 21:39:00 webar7, sure, install x11vnc and go Jul 05 21:39:12 it's cool plugging a in a keyoard Jul 05 21:39:19 usb and all that ... Jul 05 21:39:39 bt keypads are more practical though for most purposes Jul 05 21:39:48 will the next hardware have dvi plug :) Jul 05 21:39:57 mjr ... yeah Jul 05 21:40:18 mjr x11vnc means anything support vnc could be the "display" Jul 05 21:40:42 Is there a core developer here I can target that question at? (anyone?) Jul 05 21:40:46 * webar7 wonders why there isn't standalone hardware based on vnc Jul 05 21:41:11 I suppose I could just do it, but I'm told it's a very long build. Jul 05 21:41:29 like a roll up flexible plastic "minority report" style solar powered "dsiplay" to go with my phone Jul 05 21:41:50 most linux distros provide 3.x GCC besides 4 Jul 05 21:41:56 I could display clothing on the screen and wear it as a sweater Jul 05 21:42:00 you can install it without "rolling back". Jul 05 21:42:45 Tsing2: ^ Jul 05 21:44:35 ahh, thanks... tab completion on gcc gets me gcc, gcc-4.1, gcc-4.2 and some other stuff. I'll try the install as advertised and see what that does for me. Jul 05 21:45:00 (instal of gcc 3.4) Jul 05 21:45:01 s Jul 05 21:46:11 I take it the device doesn't have a backup battery? :P Jul 05 21:47:56 LionKMP: I'm happy now, thanks. Jul 05 21:49:11 btw going back to earlier conversations during the day I had been pissing about with my freerunner in the house (mainly with gps apps) and it took about a min to get first fix and that is a fresh flashing (ooer) Jul 05 21:50:30 Tsing2: yw :-) Jul 05 21:59:07 LionKMP: wget is on try 3 for rwhitby.net (5 minutes) know if that is common or if there is an alternative? Jul 05 21:59:27 'ning all, I don't suppose anyone around here is familiar with the input method and handling on the freerunner / neo? Jul 05 21:59:30 * SpeedEvil looks at rwhitby. Jul 05 21:59:41 maybe it's just busy? It could be with the phones coming out I guess. Jul 05 21:59:48 hey SpeedEvil Jul 05 21:59:55 also is tangogps.org a tad buggered or is it me? Jul 05 22:00:02 Tig|_: in what way? Jul 05 22:00:05 Tsing2: :) Jul 05 22:00:31 hello, i have a problem for building openmoko's qemu on gentoo with gcc-3.4.6...i tried to export the CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS -march=i486 as advised here: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=215594 but it didn't work Jul 05 22:01:11 SpeedEvil, which the input stuff or tangogps? tangogps can't be accessed from here and the input stuff is todo with a bluetooth keyboard and input in general on the 2007.2 image :) Jul 05 22:01:50 Tig|_: I asssumed as you said tangogps was a tad buggered, you had an idea of in which ways. Jul 05 22:03:40 SpeedEvil, tangogps is a lovely bit of work I have tried it around europe and was very handy :) but from here the website is down, I was wondering if it was for others Jul 05 22:04:20 Tig|_: what website? Jul 05 22:04:45 http://www.tangogps.org/ Jul 05 22:05:59 Up now. (for me) Jul 05 22:06:13 hmmm Jul 05 22:06:44 been down all day for me, oh well will investigate tomorrow :) Jul 05 22:07:08 Tig|_: http://www.mauve.plus.com/tangogps_0.9.0.3-r1_armv4t.ipk Jul 05 22:09:05 I want to build my qemu, I want to build it now... I want to build my qemu, rwhitby's site won't tell me how~ (sung to 'bicycle') Jul 05 22:09:31 * SpeedEvil needs to get a build back up. Jul 05 22:09:37 * ferric does too. Jul 05 22:09:45 not now! Jul 05 22:10:03 SpeedEvil, ta for that :) :) had an earlier package but not that one, So not problems hitting it from there? Jul 05 22:10:12 Tig|_: no. Jul 05 22:10:31 SpeedEvil: you can hit it? Jul 05 22:10:50 I can access the site. Jul 05 22:10:53 (tangogps) Jul 05 22:10:58 hmmm Jul 05 22:11:34 Tsing2, can you not access it? where are you based? (I can't hit it here) Jul 05 22:13:27 Tig|_: Ottawa, I get nslookup, 64.71.255.198, but I can't connect. Jul 05 22:14:14 oh well, I try later. Jul 05 22:14:18 vFrom car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net (82.240.156.91) icmp_seq=6 Destination Host Unreachable Jul 05 22:14:59 in the UK I get sod all, no dns so it looks like an upstream dns issue Jul 05 22:15:25 but if you are getting that then it could be a slightly bigger issue with the server Jul 05 22:15:58 Boss has threatened to chain me to my desk, I have all evening to do this, damit. Jul 05 22:16:06 It seems spotty here. Jul 05 22:16:11 :D Jul 05 22:16:11 the odd bit is that SpeedEvil can hit it Jul 05 22:16:32 Can you hit it? ;D Jul 05 22:16:38 Oh yes, the Tenori-On i mentioned earlier - this is someone playing with it :) http://youtube.com/watch?v=hTEMsfA5HNc Jul 05 22:19:23 make update-mokomakefile &&make update&&make openmoko-devel-image should build what at the moment? Jul 05 22:19:27 http://youtube.com/watch?v=kff9b4x921I <-- Actually... Far better video, showing someone actually jamming on the thing :) Jul 05 22:19:42 The trick is, of course - the openmoko platform might well be able to do something similar ;) Jul 05 22:21:03 leinir: that would be nifty. Jul 05 22:21:11 Tsing2: Very :) Jul 05 22:22:25 i mean, the UI is super-simple... We couldn't do it quite all the way, as we don't have multi-touch, and the tactility of the Tenori-On would be a touch on the difficult side to emulate as well, but we can do the UI itself, plus some easier session handling :) Jul 05 22:22:28 abort. I'll try again in a few hours. Jul 05 22:22:47 * Tsing2 does UI's Jul 05 22:22:56 there is an app for a simple touchscreen keyboard I saw on the net Jul 05 22:23:23 on the openmoko underground type german neo1973 site Jul 05 22:23:51 * leinir does UIs as well ;) Jul 05 22:24:35 Link? :) Jul 05 22:25:01 leinir: pulled Jul 05 22:25:01 leinir: by youtube Jul 05 22:25:16 SpeedEvil: Eh? Jul 05 22:25:29 leinir: I have an interface that connects and disseminates live aircraft surface movement data from 25 airports across the country, and all anyone really cares about is that it looks nice, hehe. Jul 05 22:26:32 Tsing2: *giggles* Funky :) Jul 05 22:26:36 leinir, http://www.neo1973-germany.de/wiki/epiano Jul 05 22:26:43 * angasule doesn't get what the tenori-on does Jul 05 22:26:52 looks like an interface to hack the matrix Jul 05 22:27:09 leinir: maybe it's something to do with my slow net. Jul 05 22:27:10 angasule: It is a synthesiser :) Jul 05 22:27:23 SpeedEvil: Potentially :) Jul 05 22:28:04 i visited a con a couple of weeks ago where someone played it, some of the time jamming with a guy on a didgeridoo... It was really quite neat :) Jul 05 22:28:24 http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xq5GHUKB4Y8 <-- video of just a bit of that :) Jul 05 22:28:48 didgeridoo's are awesome. Jul 05 22:28:53 Very :) Jul 05 22:28:56 aye :) Jul 05 22:29:13 the sound output is rather simple, though Jul 05 22:29:24 angasule, errm Jul 05 22:29:44 actually you can do quite a bit with them :) Jul 05 22:29:49 maybe it was just that video :P Jul 05 22:30:15 Yes, the video was neither shot nor chosen very well... Unfortunately, parts of that set were mindblowingly amazing stuff :) Jul 05 22:30:17 angasule, ah I was on about the didge :) Jul 05 22:30:20 whenever I heard electronic music I'm reminded of something Asimov wrote, at least I think it was him Jul 05 22:30:21 There is an old movie called the Coca Cola kid about this guy trying to sell coke in some outback place in OZ. The best part of the movie is the commercial they make with digeridoo's Jul 05 22:31:24 in the far future one of the protagonists hear music with what we would call normal instruments, and he finds it lacking in comparison with electronic music Jul 05 22:32:18 angasule: *nods* Hehe, yes, sometimes you can get that feeling - but really, what i've found is that there's good music created with just about every instrument... and a lot of bad, or mediocre, stuff ;) Jul 05 22:32:35 leinir: same with genre. Jul 05 22:32:41 SpeedEvil: Indeed :) Jul 05 22:33:00 I'm contemplating ordering a FreeRunner...but am unclear as to what's all working on the phone. From what I've found, it's capable of phone, and text, and has about a 12-hour battery life. Jul 05 22:33:07 lately I've been hearing tango, mostly because of the dancing, though Jul 05 22:33:38 Q_Continuum: it's at the moment mainly a work in progress rather than a functional object. Jul 05 22:34:14 Does it work as a basic phone though? If it does that, and can handle text messages...I'll order one and start helpin :D Jul 05 22:34:27 Q_Continuum, it is capable of being a phone but at the moment you need an understanding girlfriend :) Jul 05 22:34:31 So far, for me, it works fine in those areas. Jul 05 22:34:36 haha :P Jul 05 22:34:39 Tig|_: what do you mean by that? Jul 05 22:34:44 ;D Jul 05 22:34:45 For time, or the call issues? Jul 05 22:34:56 mine beats me with her blackberry :P Jul 05 22:35:01 Q_Continuum: some images work adequately, but if you don't stick with a known good version, you can expect it to randomly fail when ypgraded. Jul 05 22:35:18 "why don't you send me a smiley face" because it takes 18 bloody taps to do it as there is no t9 on the 2007.2 image Jul 05 22:35:37 lol Jul 05 22:35:42 Tsing2: there is an alternative location for MokoMakefile listed in the wiki page. www.rwhitby.net is offline cause the server has been saved from being engulfed by the fires in Southern California. Jul 05 22:36:02 rwhitby: cool, thanks. Jul 05 22:36:19 err, well, not so cool, but thanks. Jul 05 22:37:04 :D Jul 05 22:37:10 what does openmoko use for sound? alsa? Jul 05 22:37:12 Q_Continuum, the ASU is getting better all the time and will be very cool but not sane for use yet so you get the gtk 2007.2 which would be fine if it was not for the input method Jul 05 22:37:16 aww Jul 05 22:37:40 Tig|_: Dang. I was hoping it'd do basic stuff, guess I'll have to buy an el-cheapo Jul 05 22:37:59 Tig|_: Beta scheduled for August sometime, yeah? :) Jul 05 22:38:20 (coinciding, by any chance, with Akademy 2008's mobile development day? :) ) Jul 05 22:38:33 Q_Continuum, I would have a freerunner and a £20 phone with £10 free credit atm :) best of both worlds Jul 05 22:39:00 leinir, the fabled ASU stands for August Software Update : Jul 05 22:39:00 Tig|_: True. I'm in the US though. :P Jul 05 22:39:02 :) Jul 05 22:39:24 *giggles* :) Jul 05 22:39:25 Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. Jul 05 22:39:29 April and August ;) Jul 05 22:39:44 :D Jul 05 22:39:47 leinir, aye :) Jul 05 22:39:52 SpeedEvil: that should be in the topic :P Jul 05 22:40:10 :P Jul 05 22:40:15 Yes, yes it should. Jul 05 22:40:16 * Dave smirks at leinir Jul 05 22:40:45 * Q_Continuum sighs Jul 05 22:40:51 I guess I'll have to get an el-cheapo then. Jul 05 22:40:57 lol Jul 05 22:41:00 * leinir giggles "Watch with them smirks, you might end up getting hugged" ;) Jul 05 22:41:33 xteddy, hug leinir Jul 05 22:42:10 as a phone in my hand at this moment it makes calls and receives calls, it sends and receives text messages, power management is interesting but it is going to be one hell of a phone. Jul 05 22:42:30 Tig|_: yeah. Hopefully. Jul 05 22:42:49 * SpeedEvil just wishes the ASU thing had happened last year rather than just before release. Jul 05 22:42:56 (or not happened at all) Jul 05 22:43:32 SpeedEvil, well it would only take a few bug fixes for me to shift to the qt/asu image now (and I tried it this morning) Jul 05 22:43:50 Tig|_: yeah. I just mean it'd be nice if it was a stable phone as released. Jul 05 22:44:04 SpeedEvil, i agree with your second statement (the one in the brackets) :) Jul 05 22:44:22 Tig|_: GTK was almost there - and with 4 more months of dev not spent on ASU, it'd presumably have been a usable phone at least on release. Jul 05 22:44:22 :D Jul 05 22:44:31 SpeedEvil, aye but if you remember at the time things were not so simple :) I remember this from the openzaurus stuff too :) Jul 05 22:44:39 Tig|, isn't it terribly slow? Jul 05 22:44:50 SpeedEvil: Indeed... It is unfortunate the change happened so late... But oh well, at least it actually happened :) Jul 05 22:45:34 :) Jul 05 22:45:39 TAsn, ? the asu? program launches are a little laggy but if you tune some of the defaults it very responsive Jul 05 22:45:58 Tig|, nice to know :) Jul 05 22:46:16 so that's currently the best image? Jul 05 22:46:20 Tig|_: Hmm... A guide to suggested tweaks up on the wiki would be useful :) Anything specific? Even stuff that might make sense as defaults? :) Jul 05 22:46:30 what about fso? will that replace asu? Jul 05 22:46:34 rwhitby: thanks for the link, building now, sorry about the fire. Jul 05 22:46:36 TAsn, well it was the one from the buildhost this morning Jul 05 22:47:27 Tsing2: I'm in Australia, the server is in the US, the person who hosts the server is safe and so is his office (so far). Jul 05 22:47:30 leinir, the QT image is not in a stable state that is fit for usage atm the moment to tuning tips would be a little pointless at the moment :) Jul 05 22:47:37 leinir, you playing with it too? :D Jul 05 22:47:43 We using QuickTime now? ;) Jul 05 22:47:59 * Tig|_ slaps leinir with a badger :) Jul 05 22:47:59 haha Jul 05 22:48:05 badger badger badger Jul 05 22:48:07 SpeedEvil: it wouldn't be free software without multiple bitterly-competitive groups programming the same thing in different incompaible ways ;) "NIH" Jul 05 22:48:25 OJW, that's for sure. Jul 05 22:48:27 Tig|_: Right, defaults can wait a bit then, yeah :) Developer-friendly defaults make better sense at the moment, of course :) Jul 05 22:48:28 rwhitby: :) and build complete. Pretty! Jul 05 22:48:36 * leinir hugs the badger! ;) Jul 05 22:48:46 OJW, free also means letting stupid people choose ;0 Jul 05 22:48:56 Dave: Unfortunately not yet - it's due to arrive Monday, so... we'll see then :) Jul 05 22:49:22 TAsn, this link will clear things up : http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 05 22:49:40 Tig|, i read this one. Jul 05 22:49:48 a long time ago though. Jul 05 22:50:03 i will read it tomorrow, gn (again). ;) Jul 05 22:50:38 TAsn, in that case yes the ASU will be taken over by the framework release which will get us all together on the same page :) Jul 05 22:50:50 as soon as the new framework is doing sms, the frontend is irrelevant Jul 05 22:51:07 igor321: This will be a great day :) Jul 05 22:51:13 * SpeedEvil hits a build failure in binary locale generation. Jul 05 22:51:31 leinir: that day is supposed to be 01.08. :) Jul 05 22:51:41 igor321: A great day! :) Jul 05 22:51:46 3 more weeks :) Jul 05 22:52:00 in that case, i've a feeling that nifty things can potentially happen at akademy ;) Jul 05 22:52:29 I am going to feck off on holiday, let you lot sort out the bugs and flash to a new version when I get back :) Jul 05 22:52:45 kidding :) Jul 05 22:53:34 what I would love right now is something that I could submit bugs at and help with :) Jul 05 22:54:18 can't debug the 2007.2 image (please correct if I am wrong) as it is not in focus atm) Jul 05 22:54:43 can't debug the ASU as it is in alpha and not really ready for testing yet Jul 05 22:54:52 i don't think you can debug anything right now :) Jul 05 22:54:58 kernel Jul 05 22:54:59 aye Jul 05 22:55:05 u-boot Jul 05 22:55:06 Too much flux :) Jul 05 22:55:17 :D Jul 05 22:55:23 SpeedEvil, if I had the skill I would :) Jul 05 22:55:36 leinir, hit me up if you need any help :) Jul 05 22:56:19 It has spurred me into learning how to make simple applets in python/gtk Jul 05 22:56:25 Dave: You going to Akademy? :) Jul 05 22:57:27 I haven't used the emulator Jul 05 22:57:28 oops Jul 05 22:57:46 is the qtopia theme in ASU customisable? Jul 05 22:58:01 I would love there be something I could pimp at Lugradio live :( Jul 05 22:58:10 qtopia is back up since the 'oops - some code isn't GPL' thing? Jul 05 22:59:08 Hmm... don't know... let's check the ftp Jul 05 22:59:36 SpeedEvil, well the code is still available from the usual sources, the trolltech website did not seem to be offering the image earlier but it is all probably legal bollocks connected with lawyers Jul 05 22:59:45 ah Jul 05 23:00:00 Legal bollocks usually are connected to lawyers. Jul 05 23:00:06 At least most of them. Jul 05 23:00:25 aye they should be outlawed. legal bollocks.... Jul 05 23:04:41 hmm... can't find the ftp dir the qtopia images are supposed to be in, oh well ;) Jul 05 23:05:47 so the FSO release has a GUI...wow!!! but does it have a phone book or should i make my own phone scripts in python? does it have a console in order to launch the call scripts in case it has no phone book...? Jul 05 23:06:07 Sigh. Jul 05 23:06:26 I forgot my DSL was malfunctioning and was at 16K/second download speed. Jul 05 23:06:45 I wish i hadn't blown away the OM build directory now to refetch. Jul 05 23:06:48 lol Jul 05 23:08:00 heehee Jul 05 23:08:09 aww, poor speedy Jul 05 23:09:10 goodwill, you around? Jul 05 23:12:55 If I wanted to change the defaults for which items were powered on upon startup, would it be as simple as altering their power_on states, upon init? Jul 05 23:13:04 or is there a more proper way to accomplish this? Jul 05 23:14:17 Gnutoo, the FSO is the framework that everyone is working towards, it is all the behind the scenes things, the bits that people don't get famous for, the stuff that actually makes things happen. So no at the moment the FSO does not have all the features you would want as a phone but it is not even alpha yet. The fact that it makes damn good and stable phonecalls is a testament to the wonderful developers working on in :) The 2007.2 release the freerunn Jul 05 23:14:17 er ships with will do what you ask, and the ASU when released will bridge the gap from getting from the 2007.2 release towards the FSO and the future :) hope this has cleared things up :) I am not an OM dev I am just a user :) Jul 05 23:15:25 Dave, I suspect at the moment it is all /etc/init.d/ Jul 05 23:16:50 * cb22 likes the FSO + 2007.2 idea Jul 05 23:17:16 Tig|_, i want FSO because of the battery life...but i also want phone calls...and as i don't remember by heart the numbers i need a system that can phone a very small numbers of phone numbers...so i wondered what was the way to achieve that... Jul 05 23:17:33 SHR Jul 05 23:18:36 Tig|_, and thanks for your response Jul 05 23:18:37 cb22, cool :) personally I prefer it for the apps and pim integration :) all i know is that really what we need at the moment is a stable phone that works before we flog it to, the albiet geeky, masses :) Jul 05 23:18:55 Gnutoo: How's the battery life on FSO compared to ASU or OM? Jul 05 23:19:54 sirius, i do not have an openmoko yet but i was told that: Jul 03 23:53:32 Gnutoo: You can have good battery life (well, > 20 hours) right now if you install FSO Jul 05 23:20:06 :-D Jul 05 23:20:28 sirius, there is a video of FSO at http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/FrameworkMilestone1.m4v Jul 05 23:20:38 I'm leaving my phone on to test my battery life right now :-) Jul 05 23:20:50 dave was claiming >20h battery life earlier Jul 05 23:21:14 IIRC Jul 05 23:21:25 wooo just paid for my phone :) Jul 05 23:21:37 the 2007.2 image does not enable power saving as default, prolly because it is a bit buggy Jul 05 23:22:09 >20h sounds awesome Jul 05 23:22:22 Tig|_, what do you mean by buggy? no suspend-resume? Jul 05 23:22:42 Gnutoo, the ASU and FSO will compliment each other as the both mature they will be merging :) Jul 05 23:23:12 Gnutoo: It does suspend and resume Jul 05 23:23:22 Gnutoo, had times when it has not resumed but could have not gone into sleep properly Jul 05 23:23:32 however, after it has resumed there's no sound Jul 05 23:23:44 sirius, ok Jul 05 23:23:58 sirius, I only had that on scardycat images Jul 05 23:23:59 a nice way to get the annoying click sound to go away :-) Jul 05 23:24:11 sirius, by suspend-resume you mean suspend to ram? Jul 05 23:24:17 sirius, gta01 or 02? Jul 05 23:24:33 Eh? Jul 05 23:24:37 :| Jul 05 23:24:38 02 Jul 05 23:24:45 gnu{-: yes Jul 05 23:24:57 Speedevil, I do another uptime test tonight then, with three devices. Jul 05 23:25:05 Gnutoo: oh, maybe I'm wrong, yes, I mean to ram Jul 05 23:25:08 Though I am still trying to figure out if there's a proper way of doing this ;) Jul 05 23:25:16 (with the auto power on/off, upon boot) Jul 05 23:25:24 Dave: what was the last result? Jul 05 23:25:33 so if only the screen is suspended and the gsm is still powered it works fine... Jul 05 23:25:44 yep Jul 05 23:26:01 wow Jul 05 23:26:36 Not only the screen - CPU too. Jul 05 23:27:19 I haven't tested it too much yet, maybe this was the 1 out of 1000th time :-) Jul 05 23:28:48 the software's a bit slow some seconds after resuming Jul 05 23:29:39 RenaultR83, hello, i see you comes from france...in the case you bought an openmoko from bearstech i have a question...does the openmoko come with power socket adapter for multiple countried? Jul 05 23:29:54 s/comes/come Jul 05 23:30:18 Speedevil, it's hard for me to judge by the devices alone when the fully charged state is obtained, furthermore it appears difficult for me to get them all to be in a booted, and ready to run state, with a fully charged cell in all of them. Jul 05 23:30:25 Due to various issues. Jul 05 23:31:10 Gnutoo, I bought mine in the UK and it comes with what looks like an EU adaptor Jul 05 23:32:23 as in it looks like everyother plug I have with a FR plug on it :) Jul 05 23:32:41 Tig|_, so there are multiple plugs... Jul 05 23:33:08 nope the adaptor is multivoltage and had different connections :) Jul 05 23:33:46 you have slide on adaptors Jul 05 23:33:50 Tig|, do you have one like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europlug.png Jul 05 23:33:52 to make the Jul 05 23:34:19 yep there is one of those in the box :) Jul 05 23:34:27 Tig|_, ok thanks a lot Jul 05 23:34:50 someone put up an image of the power adaptor Jul 05 23:34:58 Tig|_, i hope there will be the same with bearstech Jul 05 23:34:59 hang on I will find it Jul 05 23:35:04 Tig|_, ok thanks a lot Jul 05 23:35:47 Gah Jul 05 23:36:17 well they all come from the same factory I suspect all boxes will be the same Jul 05 23:36:25 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:GTA02ALL.png Jul 05 23:36:32 Tig|_, ok Jul 05 23:37:19 sirius, thanks i never thought to look at this picture...i'm stupid Jul 05 23:37:41 s/stupid/stupid some times Jul 05 23:37:59 ;) Jul 05 23:38:18 sirius, ta for that I was still looking for that unboxing post :) Jul 05 23:38:47 hehe, well, the getting started wiki page is quite useful ;) Jul 05 23:39:08 :) Jul 05 23:39:11 what sound system does openmoko have? alsa? what is the 'sound card' like? does it have native Hz? bit depth? Jul 05 23:39:25 alsa + pulseaudio Jul 05 23:39:30 hvordan står det til med mine utenlandske venner? :D Jul 05 23:39:42 Dave: openmoko-no :-) Jul 05 23:39:55 AH :D Jul 05 23:40:08 tusen takk Jul 05 23:40:22 angasule: it's native 5.1 soundsytem with integrated subwoofer, and 5 12" drivers. Jul 05 23:40:36 angasule: more seriously. Jul 05 23:40:40 Speedevil, are we still talking about the GTA02? Jul 05 23:40:52 SpeedEvil: using arts :P Jul 05 23:41:00 SpeedEvil: pfft :D Jul 05 23:41:04 angasule: it's one teeny speaker - and the soundcard can do 16 bit 48KHz stereo to the earphone socket Jul 05 23:41:31 SpeedEvil: it's two! Jul 05 23:41:41 angasule: or A2DP - though I never got that working. Jul 05 23:41:49 well, err, are ;) Jul 05 23:41:59 or usb audiop Jul 05 23:42:03 in theory Jul 05 23:42:07 Yeah, I noticed that last night, while playing back some digitally encoded music off the thing. :| Jul 05 23:42:07 sirius: yeah - there is a tiny earpiece speaker too. Jul 05 23:42:21 sirius: one earpice + spk??? :-D Jul 05 23:42:24 * angasule looks up A2DP Jul 05 23:42:41 cbrake_away: GSM! Jul 05 23:42:44 oh bollocks I was told I could deafen toddlers at 30 paces :( Jul 05 23:42:46 no, one earpiece and two speakers Jul 05 23:42:54 one on each side Jul 05 23:43:04 sirius: nope! Jul 05 23:43:04 nope Jul 05 23:43:08 that was gta01 Jul 05 23:43:36 Hei Joerg :] Jul 05 23:43:39 (To clarify - this is not my clients problem - if I pressed tab it'd complete properly. I just keep assumign that I know how many letters I need to type before the : to get a unique user-ID) Jul 05 23:43:45 Dave: hi Jul 05 23:43:52 huh? so why is it holes on both sides? Jul 05 23:43:55 Joerg, is it just one internal speaker (for the, what appears to be stereo outputs)? Jul 05 23:44:00 hvat device is the accelometers? Jul 05 23:44:06 there Jul 05 23:44:06 what* Jul 05 23:44:26 * angasule wonders why they use 48KHz :/ Jul 05 23:44:27 sirius: because the gta02 re-used the same case as gta01 Jul 05 23:44:30 sirius, changing case moulds costs lots Jul 05 23:44:35 effbiai: not great ones. LIS something Jul 05 23:44:36 ahh Jul 05 23:44:42 Yeah, listening to the playback last night I could have sworn it only had one speaker, instead of two! Jul 05 23:44:48 effbiai: 16 milligee resolution. Jul 05 23:44:51 Dave: 1spk, changed amp to mono Jul 05 23:44:58 bah! :[ Jul 05 23:45:03 effbiai: LIS302? Jul 05 23:45:11 That's what it seemed like :\ Jul 05 23:45:13 oh well Jul 05 23:45:18 by the way is the root password problem resolved in the FSO image? Jul 05 23:45:19 That's what we have headphones for, right? :D Jul 05 23:45:30 * cb22 throws a bunch of capacitors at jOERG_rw Jul 05 23:45:33 Dave: right Jul 05 23:45:37 yeah.. but.. /dev/ ... Jul 05 23:45:41 Gnutoo, what root password problem? Jul 05 23:45:41 Wifi went in place of the speaker. Jul 05 23:45:44 ;) Jul 05 23:45:47 hehe Jul 05 23:45:50 * jOERG_rw ducks Jul 05 23:45:50 effbiai: /dev/input/event? Jul 05 23:45:53 jOERG_rw: don't suppose you can comment on 2 speakers in 03? Jul 05 23:45:55 haha Jul 05 23:45:57 the day I can swap my hifi with gta07... Jul 05 23:46:02 good call, joerg ;) Jul 05 23:46:06 * SpeedEvil has been looking at capacitors. Supercaps are annoyingly expensive. Jul 05 23:46:18 sirius, I hear that model may have a flux capacitor, as well :D Jul 05 23:46:39 SpeedEvil: probably no 2 spk on 03 Jul 05 23:46:54 Tig|, Jun 11 00:29:06 GNUtoo: I haven't actually tried on my box, but I've read that people tried to change the root pwd and had some issue Jul 05 23:47:08 look at wolson spec, we get more close in every device ;-) Jul 05 23:47:10 * cb22 wants a gta04 Jul 05 23:47:14 hooray! Jul 05 23:47:16 *wolfson Jul 05 23:47:17 jOERG_rw: Oh well. Jul 05 23:47:24 Decent camera lens? Jul 05 23:47:36 jOERG_rw: is hw design for 03 in progress, or finished? Jul 05 23:47:45 Daviey: pribably not. Jul 05 23:47:54 dave: Jul 05 23:48:09 SpeedEvil: not finished, no more comments ;-) Jul 05 23:48:24 give me a s3c6400 already! Jul 05 23:48:26 I vote the gta 0x (newer model!) should have a rfid tag reader Jul 05 23:48:30 and all sorts of cool stuff Jul 05 23:48:37 jOERG_rw: k Jul 05 23:48:49 near field communication, rfid, wlan, bluetooth, gps, accelerometers, 3g, more more Jul 05 23:48:56 flexd_: all sorts of cool stuff... Jul 05 23:49:05 Let's have a functional phone first. Jul 05 23:49:06 Gnutoo, just changed the root pw here no probs Jul 05 23:49:13 SpeedEvil: basically all the cool gadgets imagine, in a phone. Jul 05 23:49:20 Tig|_, ok thanks a lot... Jul 05 23:49:24 cool gadgets you can imagine* Jul 05 23:49:24 I want proper accelerators. Jul 05 23:49:30 proper gpu! Jul 05 23:49:32 throw in a gyro Jul 05 23:49:39 that can show video/games/stuff Jul 05 23:49:40 flexd_: WILL come FOR SURE, with GTAxxx Jul 05 23:49:41 Where you specify the acceleration you want on the phone - none of this measuring. Jul 05 23:49:52 flexd_: note the triple x Jul 05 23:49:52 lol Jul 05 23:49:59 fuck it lets do the job properly lets throw in a space station :) Jul 05 23:50:13 SpeedEvil: gta 0000 with a rocket engine?/hover-capabilities? Jul 05 23:50:16 and a v12, no punt v8 Jul 05 23:50:21 puny* Jul 05 23:50:25 Gyros are probably going to hit in a big way in 2-3 years. Jul 05 23:50:55 At the moment - you're looking on of the order of $50-100 for 3 axis of gyros. And $2 for 3 axis accelerometers. Jul 05 23:51:47 Real volume should make the price drop lots. Jul 05 23:52:04 * cb22 s curious as to how many fr have been produced Jul 05 23:52:05 well a decent lasergyro will eat up some power Jul 05 23:52:24 jOERG_rw: so add in a 4000mah lipoly battery Jul 05 23:52:27 jOERG_rw: not laser Jul 05 23:52:44 jOERG_rw: the MEMs gyros are comparatively non-sucky Jul 05 23:52:51 SpeedEvil: dunno better ones Jul 05 23:53:01 jOERG_rw: 0.6 degrees/sqrt(Hz) noise. Jul 05 23:53:23 jOERG_rw: they make even the best accels - with 150 uv/sqrt(Hz) look sucky. Jul 05 23:53:31 jOERG_rw: they make even the best accels - with 150 ug/sqrt(Hz) look sucky. Jul 05 23:53:43 erm not meaning to troll but just looked at the current quickstart guide for the freerunner Jul 05 23:54:06 all those shots are from the asu/qt release Jul 05 23:54:08 we warned you ;-) Jul 05 23:54:31 don't look there ;-) Jul 05 23:55:21 oh it is going to be a long month Jul 05 23:55:26 so what? Jul 05 23:55:54 hmm Jul 05 23:56:38 Tig|, can you still login with a blank password? Jul 05 23:56:42 Tig|, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017187.html Jul 05 23:56:47 gyros, accelerometers, eh? Jul 05 23:56:53 rocket powered mobile devices, huh? Jul 05 23:57:02 laser guided pdas? Jul 05 23:57:23 well the slashdot masses and the people who have been waiting, like myself, will be be looking to the wiki to help understand the gtk software stack which is not obvious Jul 05 23:58:09 Tig|_: sounds like a valid point Jul 05 23:59:09 isn't michael shiloh mentioned to be the one to contact about issues like this? Jul 06 00:00:47 jOERG_rw, also I don't know what to do really, on the one hand 2007.2 is a holding pattern while the ASU gets ready but also people want to help but dont have a project to go to Jul 06 00:01:05 btw: my FR isn't 180g, it's only 130g ;-) got 50g less, want my money back XD Jul 06 00:01:57 Tig|_: sure you're right. Alas I'm HW, no idea about development Jul 06 00:01:59 jOERG_rw: have you taken the case off? Jul 06 00:02:15 SpeedEvil: ??? Jul 06 00:02:22 hehe :) there is also slack in the back of the device, needs something like a £5 note folded down there for emergency beer and keeping the battery in :) Jul 06 00:02:29 is there a trick to flash the FR? if i start into NOR flash. connect USB. and there is no connection :( Jul 06 00:02:38 I *allways* take the case off everything I get Jul 06 00:03:36 te_acrid: just start dfu-util Jul 06 00:04:21 just made my gta02 go hibernating - didn't wake up by tapping on the screen, I called the phone and it wake fast :-) Jul 06 00:04:22 te_acrid: it should find connection Jul 06 00:04:46 sirius: yep, works better last few days Jul 06 00:04:49 jOERG_rw, look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_Overview or navigate from the wiki front page, someone has jumped the gun on asu stuff Jul 06 00:05:21 ah lol... need to be root Jul 06 00:05:43 sirius, the phone call woke it up but tapping it / pressing buttons didn't? Jul 06 00:05:56 jOERG_rw: Yep, I'm in fact impressed, but I still have ordered twinsim ;-) Jul 06 00:06:50 probably won't work with current dialer app ;-) Jul 06 00:07:21 ah sorry twin. no thats diferent (lol) Jul 06 00:07:21 Tig|_: yep, tapping the screen doesn't wake it, but pressing the power button will :-) Jul 06 00:07:27 ah sorry twin. no thats diferent (lol) Jul 06 00:07:35 ;) Jul 06 00:08:23 there also are dualsims with switchable identity Jul 06 00:08:41 Tig|_, have you tried ssh already? Jul 06 00:11:29 Gnutoo, ssh in what way? I talk to my freerunner over ssh all the time, mainly because on the image I am running the keyboard sucks :) Jul 06 00:11:37 jOERG_rw: How difficult would it be to make wicd running on the freerunner? (wicd.sourceforge.net) Jul 06 00:11:40 what does "# Free and Open WiFi" on http://openmoko.com/product.html mean? Jul 06 00:11:57 sirius: I'm HW! Jul 06 00:12:02 Tig|_, you just changed the root password...could you try to login without password please Jul 06 00:12:02 ah, sorry :-) Jul 06 00:12:21 Tig|_, just to check if the bug is still valid Jul 06 00:12:26 dcordes: you can use it Jul 06 00:12:26 dcordes: it doens't mean you can packet sniff Jul 06 00:12:53 dcordes: and it doesn't require binary kernel drivers Jul 06 00:13:07 SpeedEvil: that was not my question. It's just that it sounds odd. ah it's about the blob free driver? Jul 06 00:13:16 Gnutoo, told me to feck off Jul 06 00:13:47 Tig|_, ??? Jul 06 00:14:29 *grin* Jul 06 00:14:41 :o Jul 06 00:14:57 * Dave giggles Jul 06 00:15:50 Tig|_: will it stay across reboot? Jul 06 00:16:15 Hey, new build out :-) Jul 06 00:16:29 just about time Jul 06 00:16:46 Gnutoo, http://rafb.net/p/1JmqGt26.html Jul 06 00:17:40 Tig|_, ah you're locked out? or you just typed enter for your password? Jul 06 00:18:30 Gnutoo, I typed enter for the first pw to check it was not empty Jul 06 00:18:41 Tig|_, ah ok thanks a lot... Jul 06 00:18:47 so it works... Jul 06 00:18:56 yep :) Jul 06 00:23:26 jOERG_rw, just rebooted the freerunner and the pw change sticks Jul 06 00:26:37 that's the ahaha we like it ahaha Jul 06 00:26:49 that's the way ahaha we like it ahaha Jul 06 00:27:03 ;-) Jul 06 00:28:16 : Jul 06 00:28:19 :) Jul 06 00:30:35 Tig|_, by the way you use 2007.1? Jul 06 00:30:43 Now if only we knew how Joerg really liked it ;) Jul 06 00:31:24 * jOERG_rw enjoys some noodles ;-) Jul 06 00:31:34 *chomp* Jul 06 00:32:34 sticky pw is the way linux should work, no? Jul 06 00:32:38 Gnutoo, currently I am running the rootfw from the 03rd july 2008 and kernel from the 05th july 2008 Jul 06 00:32:54 which are both 2007.2 images Jul 06 00:33:00 Tig|_, ok thanks a lot Jul 06 00:33:16 Gnutoo, no worries :) Jul 06 00:34:28 Noodles :D Jul 06 00:34:30 i must go bye all Jul 06 00:34:36 Snakkes Jul 06 00:34:38 toodle pip :) Jul 06 00:35:27 I miss him already Jul 06 00:35:32 hah! Jul 06 00:35:40 he always typed in a lovely font Jul 06 00:35:43 :) Jul 06 00:35:45 Well, wurp just rejoined :P Jul 06 00:35:47 haha Jul 06 00:35:56 irc has typefaces? that's new! Jul 06 00:36:13 my #!#@$ server died (the server where my irssi session was running) Jul 06 00:36:22 which is also where I run 2 commercial websites :-( Jul 06 00:36:24 Dave : exclusive to the ASU ;) Jul 06 00:36:39 wurp2|away :( Jul 06 00:37:05 Well, I say died, it just stopped responding. A reboot request "fixed" it Jul 06 00:37:24 wurp2|away, erk Jul 06 00:38:24 asu seems pretty broken... cant launch terminal, all buttons are empty. and after some time i get spammed with power_supply failures :( Jul 06 00:39:13 SHR shall rule them all ;) Jul 06 00:39:14 but it boots! Jul 06 00:39:16 te_acrid, gta01/02 ? Jul 06 00:40:23 02 Jul 06 00:40:57 I flashed todays from om.com this morning and it worked (as far as it does) not the error you got Jul 06 00:41:05 cb22: So did you sign up to help out? :-) Jul 06 00:41:13 could it be a bad downloa or flash? Jul 06 00:41:15 heh, I see you did Jul 06 00:41:21 hmm, i think i need to change my local.conf ... using -j 4 currntly and its giving me a load of 20+ Jul 06 00:41:33 wurp2|away: yep :) Jul 06 00:41:43 Tig|_: i used http://downloads.openmoko.org/asu/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080520-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2.summary Jul 06 00:41:52 and i didnt notice any error Jul 06 00:42:10 when i get back home from the us i can donate some clock cycles from my shiney new octcore :) Jul 06 00:42:25 :) Jul 06 00:42:39 te_acrid, the images you want will end jffs2 for the rootfs images Jul 06 00:43:26 also those ones for the asu are really out of date, you want the ones from the om.com site Jul 06 00:43:31 hang on will find Jul 06 00:43:33 hmmm... its a 66mb file and it flashed :) Jul 06 00:43:51 hmm ok... thought om.org should be up to date :( Jul 06 00:44:18 go to the om.com site and click on downloads Jul 06 00:44:33 that will give you the most up to date code Jul 06 00:45:26 also, anyone have an estimate on how long openmoko-feed takes to build? Jul 06 00:45:26 still waiting for the 20080706 to get ready Jul 06 00:47:00 Tig|_: but there is only the daily build... no asu images... Jul 06 00:48:02 te_acrid, the asu will be the qt x11 images Jul 06 00:48:21 i know Jul 06 00:49:24 ah... no snapshot today! :) Jul 06 00:49:34 latest one is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080704/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080704-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 06 00:50:05 yeah.. just found it. thanks Jul 06 00:50:13 there should be new images coming in a few minutes. Jul 06 00:50:26 the 20080706 folder has some content. Jul 06 00:50:37 but if you want a stable handset don't bother, did it this morning :) Jul 06 00:51:19 Tig|_: What would the most stable release be you think? Jul 06 00:53:27 Ko_deZ: For now, ScaredyCat's release Jul 06 00:53:46 Ko_deZ: Actually, fso milestone is probably more stable, but it *only* has phone and sshd Jul 06 00:54:11 Ko_deZ, for what purpose? not getting killed by your girlfriend then a recent 2007.2 image, wanting to play then add the python gtk packages. ScaredyCat's images are wonderful for gta01 but is not yet building for gta02 ( we should set up a fund though) Jul 06 00:54:36 Oh, sorry, I need to remember that people are asking for gta02! Jul 06 00:54:46 wurp2|away, currently his gta02 images are not very stable :) Jul 06 00:54:49 I am a gta01 only guy Jul 06 00:54:50 wurp2|away: Yeah =) Jul 06 00:55:07 Tig|_: you are right... Jul 06 00:55:42 Well, the getting killed by girlfriend is very much a real possibility right now =) Jul 06 00:56:13 I have two FR here, and I would like for her to get a "stable" image on hers, so that she can call and send sms. Jul 06 00:56:27 For myself, I want as much loot as possible =) Jul 06 00:56:39 Ko_deZ, even with a 2007.2 image expect to be killed over not sending smilies all the time and missing calls (default phone sound is quiet :) Jul 06 00:57:11 Tig|_: the sound can be changed, right? Jul 06 00:57:35 Ko_deZ, everything can be changed, that is the point :) Jul 06 00:57:39 Tig|_: I need it to play a mp3 of the intro music to dexter. That will keep her happy for days =) Jul 06 00:57:40 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080706/openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 :-) Jul 06 00:57:47 Ko_deZ: youse gonna dieee Jul 06 00:58:19 ferric: I knøv Jul 06 00:58:32 i wont give my girlfriend a FR... she doesnt want to hack... just to phone/message Jul 06 00:58:49 Ko_deZ, someone will have worked it out and it is probably on the wiki Jul 06 00:59:49 hmmm 2 days ago it tool 23 minutes from devel image to qtopia image... Jul 06 00:59:56 te_acrid: She wanted to take part in this, and she has a masters in computer science, so she should be able to handle it =) Jul 06 01:00:11 ah ok. thats different here :) Jul 06 01:01:01 Ko_deZ: ahh, i understand now ;) i was a bit curious why you got her a fr if all she was gonna do is sms and call ;) Jul 06 01:04:31 nullpuppy: No, she knows her stuff fortunately, although not _very_ interested. Jul 06 01:04:41 * nullpuppy nods Jul 06 01:06:16 would usb 2.0 help to flash faster? :) Jul 06 01:06:31 TeNoVi: no Jul 06 01:06:35 te_acrid: FR is 1.1 only Jul 06 01:08:16 She would be very happy if she could get a propper mp3 playing device, SIP phone, SMS and Calling. She also likes the idea of checking where I am at any given moment... (the last part is a joke, for those who missed that) Jul 06 01:08:37 Ko_deZ: FR ias very far from that. Jul 06 01:08:53 Ko_deZ: i'd suggest pawning them on eBay and buying 2 iphones, or blackberry's. Jul 06 01:08:57 ferric: Very far is not true I believe. Jul 06 01:09:17 Ko_deZ: you may believe what you want to Jul 06 01:09:50 ferric: I have my FR right here. I know what it is capable of right now. Jul 06 01:10:45 SIP - over GPRS - not really Jul 06 01:10:50 ferric: I actually thought it would be a lot worse than it is. As it is, calls seems to work pretty well at least, and it is not _very_ unstable. Power management is somewhat working (which I did not think it was) Jul 06 01:11:58 SpeedEvil: I did not say GPRS. For our home phone. While at home or in a hotspot, we could use my Asterisk server. I have a provider that lets me hook up my asterisk to their server. Free calls to all of europe =) Jul 06 01:12:11 yeah Jul 06 01:12:29 It's a pity you can't tunnel GSM over wifi Jul 06 01:12:35 SpeedEvil: At home we will just use it as handsets with wlan. Should work I think. Jul 06 01:12:49 as the service for that requires stuff the GSM chipset won't do Jul 06 01:13:11 SpeedEvil: you can. the GSM voice codec works like a charm over SIP. Jul 06 01:13:13 Ko_deZ: apps are going to take a while. the FSO image really is just calling. Jul 06 01:13:22 konqui[tm]: err - no Jul 06 01:13:27 ezekiel-v3: not quite Jul 06 01:13:31 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 06 01:13:34 haha Jul 06 01:13:57 Ko_deZ: some GSM providers support tunneling to a virtual base-station over wifi Jul 06 01:14:00 SpeedEvil: I think I know what you mean. Using my GSM provider over wifi? Jul 06 01:14:34 Ko_deZ: so you get a wifi connection, log in to that basestation, and it's a normal handoff between GSM towers as far as the net is concerned. Jul 06 01:14:51 oh $deity not again :) good night all :) Jul 06 01:14:55 Ko_deZ: so you can continue on a call if you walk out of/into range. Jul 06 01:14:57 SpeedEvil: That is not what I am looking for. I want to use my landline subscription. It works nicely now with a dlink SIP adapter. Jul 06 01:15:38 Ko_deZ: yeah. wifi may be a little weak - due to the poor antenna position inherent in a phone, and low power. Jul 06 01:15:39 SpeedEvil: I see no need for involving wifi in that, unless you are in a poorly covered area. I am usually not, and those places never has wifi anyway. Jul 06 01:15:58 DerCorny: cheaper than the main network on some plans Jul 06 01:16:23 Ko_deZ: especially useful if you're at home and want your mobile to work cheaply. Jul 06 01:17:37 SpeedEvil: That is exactly what I want, use my mobile cheaply, but I want it to use SIP when at home, and not use GSM at all. Jul 06 01:18:12 DerCorny: yeah - but that way you can't roam to the outside net. If it works for you then :) Jul 06 01:18:17 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 06 01:18:17 I will have it activated of course, so people can call me, but outgoing calls should be routed trough my SIP server if possible. Jul 06 01:18:29 SpeedEvil: isn't that what UMA does/ Jul 06 01:18:37 ferric: yes Jul 06 01:18:47 ferric: the GSM firmware doesn't support :( Jul 06 01:18:54 but UMA needs .. right. Jul 06 01:19:03 we shouldn't be comlaining. :) Jul 06 01:19:15 man this band-aid is making it hard to type. Jul 06 01:19:31 SpeedEvil: With 100% free landline, I see no reason to use my 120 free GSM minutes while at home. Jul 06 01:19:52 Ko_deZ: I agree - UMA is cheaper in some areas for some though. Jul 06 01:20:02 whoa 100% free landlines? how'd you get that! Jul 06 01:21:04 ferric: SIP provider i norway. Jul 06 01:21:47 ferric: There is a monthly fee of about 30USD, but I get that covered by my employer. Jul 06 01:23:00 ferric: it is free to most european countries, as well as USA and some other. Most other places are really cheap as well. Usually I don't call outside of norway much though, but I use it more now that it is free. Jul 06 01:23:20 oy employers - gotta love them Jul 06 01:23:28 SpeedEvil: so the GSM firmware doesn't support UMA.... is there an upgrade procedure UMA capable firmware becomes available in the future? Jul 06 01:23:44 MadTBone: well... No. Jul 06 01:23:51 you can't upgrade teh GSM firmware Jul 06 01:23:54 unless you sign an NDA Jul 06 01:23:57 (I think) Jul 06 01:24:02 MadTBone: there is no current way of upgrading the firmware of the phone in the field, for legal reasons. Jul 06 01:24:20 SpeedEvil: are you running FSO on your 01? Jul 06 01:24:40 I'm not having much luck getting it to stay up more than 30min. Jul 06 01:24:46 MadTBone: plus - it'd have to be - as I understand it - TI who did the work for UMA. And they are vanishingly unlikely to. Jul 06 01:25:00 ferric: no - 2007.? Jul 06 01:25:24 SpeedEvil: TI = Texas Instruments? Jul 06 01:25:31 ferric: works fine for me. Jul 06 01:25:46 SpeedEvil: ah. Jul 06 01:25:56 MadTBone: yes - the chipset vendor. Barring anyone taking the leaked docs and hacking in UMA support to the existing firmware. Jul 06 01:26:24 Basheri: ground-plane? Jul 06 01:26:25 and then this person would be struck down by the force of law for breaking and entering. Jul 06 01:26:27 SpeedEvil: right. Jul 06 01:26:28 oops Jul 06 01:27:01 hmm Jul 06 01:27:30 gotta love NDAs and trade secrecy..... Jul 06 01:27:40 Hooray! Jul 06 01:28:02 Dave: ? Jul 06 01:28:20 Who did what now? Jul 06 01:28:25 Hello, ferric. Jul 06 01:28:41 what up homie? Jul 06 01:35:11 All my freerunners, at the moment :D Jul 06 01:35:15 Batteries draining... :P Jul 06 01:35:24 sweet Jul 06 01:35:35 I commanded my little freerunner army to AWAKEn, and such they did :D Jul 06 01:36:42 sounds evil Jul 06 01:38:57 * Dave cackles maniacally. Jul 06 01:38:58 imagine a beowulf cluster of those ;) Jul 06 01:39:18 * SpeedEvil ponders an ad. Jul 06 01:39:32 USB-controlled mixer. Jul 06 01:39:39 Iphone. Jul 06 01:39:42 Freerunner. Jul 06 01:40:53 what would be undeniably awesome is to flash an iphone from freerunner Jul 06 01:41:03 how do i unhide the asu keyboard? o_O Jul 06 01:41:11 just to put it in its place, you know :) Jul 06 01:41:13 With OM. Jul 06 01:41:17 'All your base belong to us'. Jul 06 01:41:33 mwahaha Jul 06 01:41:47 or a freerunner flashing another freerunner. that should be quite easy infact Jul 06 01:42:48 Dave: whatch ya doing? Jul 06 01:49:06 Is there a guide to running openmoko on a standard x86 distro through an emulator? Jul 06 01:49:28 yes Jul 06 01:50:04 ahh......google is my friend....should have searched before I asked.... Jul 06 01:50:11 sorry Jul 06 01:50:25 ^^ Jul 06 01:55:16 Goodwill, trying for packages which don't exist Jul 06 01:55:19 Did you disappear them? Jul 06 01:57:56 does it exist a tool to read the ST accelerometer LIS302DL? Jul 06 02:01:56 Danker: what does that mean Jul 06 02:02:25 Dave: what does that mean Jul 06 02:04:39 effbiai: you don't Jul 06 02:04:53 effbiai: it's parsed by the kernel, and comes out on /dev/input/event2 (IIRC) Jul 06 02:06:04 i know it comes out on eventX, therefore i was wondering if it was a reader for it.. cuz eventX is just rubberish Jul 06 02:06:32 Dave: I did not make anythign disappear Jul 06 02:06:37 Dave: what do you need? Jul 06 02:08:00 effbiai: no it's not. Jul 06 02:08:11 effbiai: google for the format Jul 06 02:08:30 It's a standard - maybe it's in Documentation in the linux kernel tree Jul 06 02:33:19 good morning Jul 06 02:34:02 did openmoko webstore start offering the 900mhz models while I was away? :-) Jul 06 02:34:46 they added some more 850's Jul 06 02:35:08 i was busy installing slack Jul 06 02:35:29 They added those about 12 hours ago Jul 06 02:35:33 maybe 250 Jul 06 02:38:19 come on openmoko!!!! feel pitty for us, we have been waiting for ages, do some thing please Jul 06 02:39:49 Brian and SpeedEvil: How do you know 250 850 units were added? Jul 06 02:41:04 i dont even know\ Jul 06 02:41:28 they may have 10,000 Jul 06 02:41:44 rtm_: go to the shop. Jul 06 02:41:56 rtm_: enter 1000 in the quantity box as how many you want Jul 06 02:42:02 try to buy 1000 Jul 06 02:42:05 rtm_: it goes down to x Jul 06 02:42:22 Oh - tricky! Jul 06 02:42:23 rtm_: it's not unreasonable to assume that x is how many the shop software has been told are available. Jul 06 02:42:28 dont necesserilly mean anything Jul 06 02:43:16 since they added it means even less Jul 06 02:43:38 No - however, given that it's going down on a repeated trend, with jumps up, it's a reasonable hypothesis. Jul 06 02:44:41 SpeedEvil, how low did the count go before the 250 increment? Was the store even close to selling out of 850s? Jul 06 02:44:43 There is however an easy way to test. Jul 06 02:44:59 Can anyone paypal me $299*283? Jul 06 02:45:14 yup Jul 06 02:45:40 I was asleep at the period they were added - possibly 100 Jul 06 02:45:46 thats what i need to do too Jul 06 02:46:06 just buy the rest of them Jul 06 02:46:26 start up the ebay account Jul 06 02:46:44 Corner the market. Jul 06 02:47:16 doc thought they were down to 140 or so 850s... the fact they've added more is good news - we were worried we might not oredr in time to get our 10 Jul 06 02:47:32 Maybe if we enter a large, negative number in the order form, they'll start disassembling them, and the ones we have now will be even more valuable. Jul 06 02:48:06 ? Jul 06 02:48:49 heh Jul 06 02:49:14 august the boat shippment arrives thus uncornering the market Jul 06 02:50:03 watch www.hogsbreath.com Jul 06 02:50:13 stage cam Jul 06 02:50:20 :| Jul 06 02:55:11 SpeedEvil: yey! Jul 06 02:56:15 yey? Jul 06 02:56:22 bitchx via freerunner? Jul 06 02:56:23 they added more :) Jul 06 02:56:27 oo Jul 06 02:57:04 doc|home: ah. Yeah - about 12h ago. Jul 06 02:59:09 SpeedEvil: From your probing if the online store, do you have an estimate of how many 850 units have been ordered? Jul 06 02:59:28 billions! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 06 02:59:56 2008