**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 10 02:59:57 2008 Jul 10 03:00:06 i was expecting to see something like x25 or somethin Jul 10 03:00:10 there's some bug with the OSS sound driver that prevents me from receiving packets, but if that can be fixed then Winlink e-mail etc. should also be possible Jul 10 03:00:20 kd8ikt: whats different with ipkg and opkg ,I can't find ipkg ,when type ipkg it show me "-sh: ipkg: not found" Jul 10 03:00:31 opkg then Jul 10 03:00:44 i didnt know i still havent gotten my moko Jul 10 03:02:09 myguess though opkg is a port of ipkg (itsy package manager) renamed for the moko Jul 10 03:02:21 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opkg Jul 10 03:02:40 ;) exactly Jul 10 03:03:16 hey wheres the pkg repo so i can finger through it Jul 10 03:04:13 rivalarrival: thx ,It's like dpkg It's very cool Jul 10 03:05:19 package managers were the coolest I found in Linux. Jul 10 03:07:07 So, what has the world of amateur radio brought forth in the past 6-10 years? I've been out of touch for awhile. Jul 10 03:07:26 a lot of QRM Jul 10 03:07:48 and monies traveling to china Jul 10 03:08:07 cause barely anyone under 80 has built their own radio Jul 10 03:09:14 That has been true since before I got involved - back in 95, I believe... Jul 10 03:11:33 i've honestly been getting sick of it rules an regs up the butt, then again i just have a 2meter. seems like the only time i chime in is to say my callsign cause most everyone else are windbags and frequently timeout the repeaters Jul 10 03:11:41 pluss i dont really know anyone Jul 10 03:12:24 not much to talk about with strangers besides 'OMG GAS PRICES" Jul 10 03:13:20 Ain't that the truth? Jul 10 03:14:15 That's why I never renewed my license... Nobody around worth talking to, all the geeks switched over to computers. Jul 10 03:15:19 i think you have to have missing teeth and a bad accent to be able to converse with others like palls on 2meter round here Jul 10 03:15:35 Sure fire way to bring some fresh blood into the ham world would be to allow multi-mode commercial comms. Jul 10 03:15:46 at least on a portion of the bands. Jul 10 03:16:21 Need a working mediaplayer app :\ Jul 10 03:16:34 Need a freerunner :/ Jul 10 03:16:35 Around here(Dayton,OH) most of the 2meter bands go unused anyway Jul 10 03:16:36 particulrly to test preencoded video Jul 10 03:16:51 Yay first commit for SHR o/ Jul 10 03:16:53 <= Happy Jul 10 03:16:59 KrisAbsinthe: Same up here in the Akron area. Jul 10 03:17:16 mplayer isnt on the moko yet? Jul 10 03:17:37 rivalarrival: geting my Tech class in a couple weeks, wanted general but not enough time to study Jul 10 03:17:55 kd8ikt: THAT will change. I give it 10 days. :) Jul 10 03:18:04 cool Jul 10 03:18:07 prolly Jul 10 03:18:33 hey its a mips cpu right? Jul 10 03:18:34 mplayer has been needed for over a year. The app it comes with is a piece of junk Jul 10 03:18:47 arm Jul 10 03:19:10 KrisAbsinthe: I got my tech back in the mid 90's, never renewed it. Can't see myself investing in amateur radio hardware unless I can use it to extend my internet connection. Jul 10 03:19:12 armv4t to be exact Jul 10 03:19:51 * kd8ikt ponders getting a big ole microsd card and installing gentoo on it ;) Jul 10 03:19:53 rivalarrival: Someone bought me a radio for xmas and i fihure what the hell Jul 10 03:20:16 only $14 test at H.O.P.E Jul 10 03:20:19 i wish my radio did 6meter Jul 10 03:20:43 6-meter would be nice. Jul 10 03:20:49 vx-7r Jul 10 03:20:53 I want a HF rig. too expensive though Jul 10 03:21:04 Never worked it. 2m, 220, 440. Jul 10 03:21:43 I've never been a fan of HF. Jul 10 03:22:10 I like the possibilities of long range comms Jul 10 03:22:50 In the Mid 90's I had a CB. kinda seems like a lot of those people got 2meter Jul 10 03:24:02 I went back to CB when I started driving a lot more for my job. Jul 10 03:24:24 Truckers are the best radar detecters. Jul 10 03:24:31 Agreed Jul 10 03:25:14 Wish there was a radio to get the CB and 2meter. If there is let me know Jul 10 03:25:37 Never heard of such a beast. Jul 10 03:26:59 The coolest radio I'd ever seen was, I believe, an amateur all-band, all mode, from 80m to 6m, plus an optional 2m module. Jul 10 03:27:09 Wow Jul 10 03:27:34 I think Icom had it out about 3 years ago... But I don't really remember the specs. Jul 10 03:27:59 my radio is ICOM 2200H pretty nice, modded lol Jul 10 03:29:12 I remember listening to 800mhz cell phone calls back in the mid 90s on a modded transceiver. Jul 10 03:29:34 lol, have a scanner for that, dont matter now though Jul 10 03:29:57 http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lapthorn/ft817.htm Jul 10 03:30:51 Thats a nice radio Jul 10 03:31:21 how to use opkg install download pkg ? I'm use opkg install ./gllin_1.0\+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk but done nothing Jul 10 03:31:37 gllin is protected by a EULA Jul 10 03:32:48 go download it on a host machine and scp it to the moko Jul 10 03:33:33 KrrisAbsinthe: yes I already get it Jul 10 03:33:44 wonder if I can set it up with dyndns and use it as a mobile web server... Jul 10 03:33:58 du -sh gllinxxx.ipk 1.9mb Jul 10 03:34:31 I had the same trouble w/ gllin then checked the md5 and it was off. Jul 10 03:35:05 KrrisAbsinthe: but how to install it ? I can't find ipkg command, I just would know how to use opkg install local ipk Jul 10 03:35:27 ipkg install ipkgname Jul 10 03:35:47 opkg install ipkgname Jul 10 03:35:47 KrisAbsinthe: can't find ipkg command Jul 10 03:35:57 ChandleWEi: do you have a GTA01? Jul 10 03:36:10 ipkg is depreciated. has somthing to do with legality Jul 10 03:36:38 mwester: not gat01,just gta02 Jul 10 03:36:49 then you dont need gllin Jul 10 03:36:53 If you have gta02, then you don't want gllin -- it's only for the GPS in gta01 Jul 10 03:37:09 ipkg is deprecated because it was un-maintained; it's been replaced by opkg. Jul 10 03:37:44 mwester: is TangoGPS the best app for navigation Jul 10 03:38:08 Dunno; but I hear of a lot of people using it. Jul 10 03:38:26 tangogps is a moving map only Jul 10 03:38:37 it features a pointer to a waypoint. Jul 10 03:38:40 And that's it. Jul 10 03:38:44 I use it, just wish I could download the entire east coast at once Jul 10 03:39:00 openwrt uses ipkg Jul 10 03:39:15 love the openwrt build env Jul 10 03:40:42 dude once i get this phone i'm one step closer to having a fully linux home Jul 10 03:40:47 ;) Jul 10 03:41:49 kd8ikt: thats what I hoped with the GTA01 lol Jul 10 03:42:22 cable tv box, need to interface with my HVAC too maybe even turn the microwave and toaster and overn into linux computers or atleast linux controlled Jul 10 03:42:37 heh Jul 10 03:42:48 lol, thats sweet Jul 10 03:42:55 kd8ikt: X10? Jul 10 03:43:44 oh yeah i forgot about that Jul 10 03:44:11 smarthome.com Jul 10 03:44:17 though ethernet over power... Jul 10 03:45:11 still a fully automated house would be awesome Jul 10 03:45:28 need sensors all over the place Jul 10 03:46:26 anyone see walle? the pixar movie. loved it except for all the macintosh propaganda Jul 10 03:46:27 My friend's dad wired their house so he could control it with a giant universal remote. Jul 10 03:46:33 you could do proximity authentication with your Freerunner Jul 10 03:46:44 bluetooth? Jul 10 03:47:10 I've seen proximity authentication done with bluetooth devices. Jul 10 03:47:42 I would do it over BT but with a Key stored with OBEX Jul 10 03:47:44 well hey talkin about ham this 2 meter cinci repeater has been getting propigation into lousville Jul 10 03:47:55 Wow Jul 10 03:48:05 whats the freqs Jul 10 03:48:16 givin this repeater downtown is up like 700ft or so on a tv stations antenna Jul 10 03:48:23 145.35 Jul 10 03:48:25 Louisville KY? Jul 10 03:48:41 prolly or is there a oiusville in indiana? Jul 10 03:48:59 either way Jul 10 03:49:01 Because Louisville OH would be more interesting... Jul 10 03:49:13 Up, east of Canton. Jul 10 03:50:51 think its ky wich is only like 50+ miles away no biggy Jul 10 03:51:17 considering how high this repeaters antenna is Jul 10 03:52:13 I opkg install tangogps, but I exec gpsd it show me gpsd: can't run with neither control socket nor devices Jul 10 03:52:26 I opkg installed tangogps, but I exec gpsd it show me gpsd: can't run with neither control socket nor devices Jul 10 03:53:16 is the module loaded for the GPS Jul 10 03:53:31 whats opkg.conf have for the default pkgs url? Jul 10 03:53:41 i'd like to thumb through it Jul 10 03:54:45 When I use my bluetooth GPS on my machine, I have to exec gpsd with the argument /dev/rfcomm0 Jul 10 03:55:07 alas, my phone seemingly did not ship today :( Jul 10 03:55:39 Im not ordering another OM device until at least generation 3 maybe 4 Jul 10 03:55:39 I think I get the same error on my ubuntu machine if I don't supply the device... Jul 10 03:56:49 Just give it a little time - the community hasn't been all that involved with the neo1973, and the FR is just now getting into the hands of the "l33t hax0rs" Jul 10 03:57:38 i'm buying it just for the name ;) Jul 10 03:58:21 nah but i'm inbetween user / dev and like the idea of supporting the project with monies Jul 10 03:58:53 i just want usable battery life lol. and I bought the 01 before the 850mhz problem was found Jul 10 03:59:04 400$ is a boatload but like i've said before this sucker is packed with hardware Jul 10 03:59:06 needless to say I found it pretty fast Jul 10 03:59:14 the 01? Jul 10 03:59:22 Neo1973 Jul 10 03:59:27 GTA01 Jul 10 03:59:29 dang and the FR is like double the cpu Jul 10 04:00:19 The battery problem should be resolvable. I imagine there will be a couple dozen workarounds in the next week. Jul 10 04:00:40 Unless the hardware is truly fuxx0red. Jul 10 04:01:21 Ive had this phone for nearly a year I doubt a fix for battery exists. Jul 10 04:01:54 i dont like the idea of the video accellerator being on that shared bus Jul 10 04:02:03 howlong does it last? Jul 10 04:02:10 3-4 hours Jul 10 04:02:17 oh damn Jul 10 04:02:31 that sucks bigtime Jul 10 04:02:36 That's the 01 - same problem with the FR? Jul 10 04:02:45 I dont know Jul 10 04:02:48 i dont think so Jul 10 04:02:55 Freerunner battery life should be OK - they fixed a lot of stuff. Jul 10 04:03:01 doubt it. OM is really good about fixing problems Jul 10 04:03:29 just wish I could pay them to Mod my phone for 800mhzm damn FCC Jul 10 04:03:38 opps 850mhz Jul 10 04:04:03 ? dunno but my service provider uses 1900 Jul 10 04:04:10 so i'm good either way Jul 10 04:04:33 cant wait to drop my sim chip in a FR Jul 10 04:04:46 the FR fixed that issue, I will get one when I am sure about battery life Jul 10 04:04:54 it should beable to read my contact list on the sim right? Jul 10 04:05:18 not like i have a terrible amount of contacts anyway Jul 10 04:05:21 Don't most of the GSM providers have roaming agreements? Jul 10 04:05:55 my area physically lacks other GSM bands Jul 10 04:06:56 except downtown Dayton and Downtown Columbus Jul 10 04:08:46 It varies. Jul 10 04:08:56 did they ever make the Wifi module have monitor mode on the FR Jul 10 04:09:16 The battery life can easily extended beyond the out-of-the-box experience; there's a few simply changes that will permit suspend/resume to work. Jul 10 04:09:18 Typically, various carriers will have reciprocal agreements with various other carriers. Jul 10 04:09:30 KrisAbsinthe: don't think so. Jul 10 04:09:32 No monitor mode is available in the firmware. Jul 10 04:09:54 do you have a wiki on those tweaks? Jul 10 04:10:14 mwester: which is a pity - if only from a powersaving POV. Jul 10 04:10:21 wow, that sucks Jul 10 04:11:15 It's firmware, so I guess there's hope if enough folks need the Wifi chips to do more interesting things. Jul 10 04:11:17 yeah how am i supposed to use kismet with gps :( Jul 10 04:11:29 having Mon. mode and a packet capture program was the whole reason I wanted a FR. Im a pen. tester, would have been bad ass Jul 10 04:11:37 * kd8ikt cries inside Jul 10 04:11:46 Oh that - I hope they don't do it just so we can arm little script-kiddies to go around hacking into networks. Jul 10 04:11:54 heh Jul 10 04:12:21 And yeah, yeah - everyone's a "pen tester" -- you have NO idea how many "pen testers" I meet. Jul 10 04:12:22 mwester: I see your point Jul 10 04:12:28 lol Jul 10 04:12:32 amen Jul 10 04:12:53 but still kismet+gps+openmoko=coolbeans Jul 10 04:13:17 Frankly, those who need that can just use a wifi USB dongle. Jul 10 04:13:42 ah yes i forgot i have an ALFA usb card that can work with one usb port Jul 10 04:13:50 After all, if you are a legitimate "pen tester", a little extra equipment isn't a problem, right? Jul 10 04:14:00 forgot they added +5v on that bus Jul 10 04:14:24 no problem to have equipment , just like to consolidate. Jul 10 04:14:42 :) Jul 10 04:14:45 Right. Jul 10 04:15:12 lol, i grew out of war driving about 6 months after wifi got big. Jul 10 04:15:15 next there will be talk of ruby/ metasploit Jul 10 04:15:27 sql lol Jul 10 04:15:50 hey lets get backtrack to run on the moko Jul 10 04:16:07 thats a challenge Jul 10 04:16:15 is openmoko like a leeto phone? Jul 10 04:16:38 Not yet. Jul 10 04:16:41 ? Jul 10 04:16:44 :) Jul 10 04:17:01 if you mean leeto like linux /homebrew software engineering , then yes Jul 10 04:17:22 isn't leeto a cheese chip thing that comes in a snack bag? Jul 10 04:17:40 oh now i'm hungry Jul 10 04:17:49 mmmm tacos Jul 10 04:18:48 has a nice rythm to it: I'd like a taca and bag of leetos, please! Jul 10 04:19:02 nice Jul 10 04:19:41 lol Jul 10 04:19:58 Has anyone done side-by-side tests on the GTA01 and 02 GPS chips? Jul 10 04:20:22 read something in the wiki ideas/wishlist about shake the phone to enable /disable screenlock that'd be neat Jul 10 04:21:03 It'd be fun to watch a group of people all unlocking their phones at the same time... Jul 10 04:21:21 Yeah, I saw that - screen needs to lock or your dialing with your face. Jul 10 04:21:29 *You're Jul 10 04:21:39 the iPhone has that problem Jul 10 04:21:42 big-time -- it's way more sensitive than the treo when you stick up to your ear. Jul 10 04:21:44 * chillywilly waits for his unit to ship...and waits... ;) Jul 10 04:21:53 i like that idea or maybe a round motion Jul 10 04:22:09 Or, beat somebody upside the head with it to unlock. Jul 10 04:22:14 cause a shake could be emulated by a bump car ride /walking etc Jul 10 04:22:47 maybe you could teach it to learn a specific style of shake Jul 10 04:23:04 No more passwords - secret hand shakes. Jul 10 04:23:08 it has an acceleratmator (sp?) in it, right? Jul 10 04:23:13 2 Jul 10 04:23:13 2 Jul 10 04:23:16 2 Jul 10 04:23:17 sufficently high G might be a good way. That way, when it falsely unlocks, it would usually be due to something Very Bad Indeed happening, and if you had voice dailing, you could call for an ambulance or something. Jul 10 04:23:19 maybe you woud have to press the aux button and shake Jul 10 04:23:19 ok Jul 10 04:23:21 chillywilly: a pair of 3d accelerometers Jul 10 04:23:38 yea, I butchered that word Jul 10 04:23:44 ;P Jul 10 04:23:59 when will we get a 3G openmoko phone ;) Jul 10 04:24:13 What order number are they up to now? Jul 10 04:24:17 I'd like to see the current one work first, I guess. Jul 10 04:24:21 mine is 3000 Jul 10 04:24:44 am I going to get an email with a tracking no. when it ships, anyone know? Jul 10 04:24:45 I meant - what have they shipped? Jul 10 04:24:58 chillywilly: Yes - but it might take awhile... Jul 10 04:25:03 i think the group puchase the guys near me did said it would arrive sometimenext week Jul 10 04:25:15 Last I heard, they were up to ~1300 Jul 10 04:25:19 how long is a "while"? ;P Jul 10 04:25:40 hadnt pestered him about the number but i need a few more days to procure the cash Jul 10 04:25:50 chillywilly: We'll let you know how long awhile is. We'll tell you in a "while". Jul 10 04:25:56 I even chose 2nd day air shipping because I don't want to wait for UPS Ground from CA to WI Jul 10 04:26:03 mwester: the accels are +-2G only I think Jul 10 04:26:15 how fast is that? Jul 10 04:26:22 data bandwidthwise Jul 10 04:26:43 does the phone still have suspend problems? Jul 10 04:26:48 You'll get it sooner, but they are backlogged on the initial orders. Jul 10 04:27:04 is FSO the only firmware that will give you decent calls and SMS? Jul 10 04:27:07 lol them someone better log into the wiki and change that 5/6 G auto collision junk and say "imposible because" Jul 10 04:27:24 FSO? Jul 10 04:27:47 freesmartphone.org or did I get it wrong? Jul 10 04:27:50 kelvie: not G as in 3G but as in Gravity for the accelerometers Jul 10 04:28:13 there's a wiki there :) Jul 10 04:28:14 ah :p Jul 10 04:28:44 how fast is the data through the phone though? Jul 10 04:28:50 I've heard that it's 2 G or 2.5G or whatever Jul 10 04:28:54 I think 2.5G Jul 10 04:28:58 chillywilly: have a read of this to understand all the different versions. http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars Jul 10 04:29:01 slow Jul 10 04:29:05 and... those don't mean much to me :p Jul 10 04:29:10 like 20 kb/s slow? Jul 10 04:29:14 or dialup slow? Jul 10 04:29:35 I'd imagine around 5KB/s... Jul 10 04:29:38 kelvie: Carrier pigeon slow Jul 10 04:29:42 wow Jul 10 04:29:45 :-) J/K Jul 10 04:29:51 how fast is 3G? Jul 10 04:30:14 it's hard to find reliable information on how fast things are by how many "G"s they have Jul 10 04:30:16 alphabeat: I already have that URL loaded in my browser but I ran out of time this morning and had to go to work, I also have the blog entry by michael lauer to read Jul 10 04:30:20 alphabeat: I just got home :) Jul 10 04:30:27 ah no worries. it's a good read Jul 10 04:30:34 looks like 144 kbit/s via wikipedia Jul 10 04:30:36 kelvie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths#Mobile_telephone_interfaces Jul 10 04:30:36 this might clear things up Jul 10 04:31:19 alphabeat: oh wow, thanks :) Jul 10 04:31:24 can't believe I hadn't run into that page yet Jul 10 04:31:49 yeah it's pretty handy Jul 10 04:32:20 mwester: hate to bother you again but did they ever fix up the in call audio with the GTA01 Jul 10 04:32:28 so basically as i understand it, 2G is GSM, 2.5 is GPRS, 2.75 is EDGE, 3G is HSDPA Jul 10 04:32:29 wow.. 3G is a huge difference :O Jul 10 04:32:41 gprs seems barely useable Jul 10 04:32:45 even for stuff like updating git repos Jul 10 04:32:55 but it is useful for AGPS Jul 10 04:33:03 Yeah, this 2g, 2.5g, and 3g crap has got to go. Jul 10 04:33:09 would be good for grabbing maps from OSM via TangoGPS Jul 10 04:34:09 So, GPRS is dialup? Jul 10 04:34:41 thinkso Jul 10 04:34:44 slower Jul 10 04:34:45 anyone know what firmware is actually used in the W.E. phones? Jul 10 04:34:48 it seems Jul 10 04:34:58 more like GSM tcp/ip Jul 10 04:35:10 wait no it's exactly the same Jul 10 04:35:20 is that a 4th stack? Jul 10 04:37:36 How about VOIP services on the freerunner? Skype, or a compatible alternative? Jul 10 04:37:51 with the wifi, not the gprs, obviously... Jul 10 04:39:13 needs a sip client or something sip mode tab integrated into the normal dialer via any ip network ie wifi, blootoof , or the gsm netthingy Jul 10 04:39:59 then one could have asterisk/FWD or other iax supported service ;) FWD cause its free Jul 10 04:40:28 been waiting on that. it will be sweet Jul 10 04:40:41 run that on an external server or home asterisks server Jul 10 04:41:07 asterisks is ported to OM but no GUI Jul 10 04:41:09 little bloaty to have asterisk actually on the phone Jul 10 04:41:20 pluss one needs port forwarding etc Jul 10 04:41:53 er maybe openvpn +sip client to home asterisk server Jul 10 04:42:21 like i was asking earlier does a sipclient need ports forwarded to connect to a asterisk host Jul 10 04:42:43 if so openvpn might be mandatory to connect to your home net Jul 10 04:42:51 and register with asterisk Jul 10 04:43:24 starting to eat into the memory a little with all the deps, SD card will be required Jul 10 04:43:35 I know that Skype doesn't need port forwarding... But I don't know. Jul 10 04:43:51 if you want zero conf then run home to iphone or whats that one cell with wifi roaming/calling Jul 10 04:44:06 tmobile? Jul 10 04:44:18 bet underneath all that is asterisk ;) Jul 10 04:44:47 SIP over GPRS will not work well. Jul 10 04:44:54 Typical GPRS has a latency of 2s Jul 10 04:44:58 up to 2s Jul 10 04:45:03 dang really Jul 10 04:45:14 sometimes you can get 50msec or so Jul 10 04:45:16 500* Jul 10 04:45:40 whatabouyt a true dialup modem Jul 10 04:45:46 csd? Jul 10 04:46:00 Not interested in using it over the GPRS connection - just the wifi. Jul 10 04:46:12 that would definitly be possible Jul 10 04:46:18 could use it with echolink lol Jul 10 04:46:24 <-- jet lagged Jul 10 04:46:24 lol Jul 10 04:46:24 gprs=too much money Jul 10 04:46:34 i think i get charged per kb Jul 10 04:46:44 I think t-mobile offers unlimited for 20 bucks Jul 10 04:47:06 boy would they hate an openmoko Jul 10 04:47:13 heh Jul 10 04:47:29 people dropping 8GB+ cards in it and running rtorrent ;) Jul 10 04:47:54 hehe Jul 10 04:48:08 or even better, people conecting 1tb external usb drives and running ctorrent :) Jul 10 04:48:19 i thought gprs waqs faster then regular dialup Jul 10 04:48:36 faster yes Jul 10 04:48:38 Well, it's the ISP definition of unlimited... Jul 10 04:48:39 but more latency Jul 10 04:49:40 gprs appears to be slightly faster - 7kBs vs 5kBs Jul 10 04:49:43 approximately Jul 10 04:49:54 i need a telecom induced headache pill Jul 10 04:50:45 Is there an easy way to remove all the games off my moko Jul 10 04:51:25 opkg not seeing em? Jul 10 04:52:12 No. Games are essential to the operating system, removing them will void your warranty. Jul 10 04:52:19 trying to figure out the legal names for them. I was hoping that they grouped them like openmoko-games or somthing Jul 10 04:52:29 *something Jul 10 04:52:34 (When OpenMoko operates like T-Mobile) Jul 10 04:54:05 ok i've set up asterisk all i need now is a freerunner and a howto :) Jul 10 04:55:59 http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/gbpnkans/ ? or do we need something special to register with an asterisk server? Jul 10 04:56:34 ah thanks Jul 10 04:56:35 like my half baked idear of a moko sip client Jul 10 04:57:57 it looks like that project wants to put asterisk *on* the phone. is that right? Jul 10 04:58:26 mickey|zzZZzz: "Initiate" on Call is pretty much.... not obvious at all :-) Jul 10 04:58:30 "type" is unknown to me Jul 10 04:58:52 well IAX Jul 10 04:59:13 if its on the phone it could act as the registering/router to go through the main server Jul 10 04:59:49 or just cut out the middle man maybe i'm def no asterisk god i tinkered with it like 5 times Jul 10 05:00:07 had a free ipkall number etc Jul 10 05:00:31 FWD with free incoming but not outgoing Jul 10 05:06:27 <--blabbermouth Jul 10 05:06:33 mickey|zzZZzz: (a grep in zhone solved my question for a time, but you won't sleep if I get my hands on you) Jul 10 05:12:50 anyone remember the command to shrink the clock? Jul 10 05:14:15 well allo there Jul 10 05:14:31 what's up with the qt default MokoMakefile build? Jul 10 05:19:43 KrisAbsinthe: "shrink"? Jul 10 05:22:48 dock it, instead of it being big. i wrote a script along time ago to edit various settings just can remember what it was Jul 10 05:23:25 can the freerunner do stereo? Jul 10 05:23:40 with headphones yes Jul 10 05:24:02 * rooly purchased a freerunner from koolu on tuesday Jul 10 05:27:38 Wow, the reports I've seen on battery life are widely varying -- from 3 hours to 21 Jul 10 05:27:49 Anyone have any first-hand experience? Jul 10 05:28:10 on the FR or the GTA01 Jul 10 05:28:20 I'm interested in the FR Jul 10 05:28:27 nope Jul 10 05:28:36 What is the GTA01 like? Jul 10 05:28:44 3-4 hours Jul 10 05:29:01 Is that 3-4 hours talking, or 3-4 hours idle? Jul 10 05:29:08 Im sure they fixed any hardware problems. Jul 10 05:29:13 idle Jul 10 05:29:42 It looks like they haven't made it so that the CPU gets clocked down when its idle, I wonder when that might happen Jul 10 05:29:43 i heard that the 1973 had no power management in sleep mode...which seems to be a major problem... Jul 10 05:29:44 ive only been able to talk for about 20 mins Total Jul 10 05:30:12 yes it is. It would be a sweet ass device if i can fix up the PM Jul 10 05:30:48 why do i keep getting this damned qtopia theme when i boot the emulator? Jul 10 05:30:58 Yeah, I ordered a FR before realizing the battery life was rather... bad Jul 10 05:31:21 walrustown: they think they can get it to under a week standby Jul 10 05:31:27 i question if such people have the wifi and bluetooth on though Jul 10 05:31:28 Im waiting this time, I ordered the 1973 the day it went on sale Jul 10 05:31:48 meh...when else is one go aquire one... Jul 10 05:31:54 the things go faster than hotcakes Jul 10 05:32:03 *to Jul 10 05:32:05 alphabeat: that's good; I'd be OK with just 2-3 days really Jul 10 05:32:25 i would be happy with 10 hours, but want 24 Jul 10 05:32:31 * rooly would be happy with 1 day of charge... Jul 10 05:32:38 ~18 is enough for me Jul 10 05:32:39 ieatlint: okay Jul 10 05:32:44 Yeah, I was way too excited. When I saw the green "Buy" button, I just clicked and kept clicking until I was $400 poorer Jul 10 05:32:47 yeah, charge it when you go to bed Jul 10 05:33:25 18 would be ok, but I want to make the FR my primary phone Jul 10 05:33:44 If I get lost or kidnapped or something, I'd like more battery life Jul 10 05:33:53 heh Jul 10 05:33:57 gps, ftw Jul 10 05:34:08 if you get kidnapped and they don't take away your phone, then that's just sad Jul 10 05:34:09 yeah, me too, my wife was pissed when we realized that the 1973 didnt work in a good chunk on north america Jul 10 05:34:11 'zackly, but I'll need 18 hours if they drug me and take me to mexico Jul 10 05:34:28 sad for the kidnappers, yay for me Jul 10 05:34:45 sad if you let yourself get abducted by such morons? Jul 10 05:34:47 well just find a usb>minusb cable and your in buissness Jul 10 05:35:05 someone go make a handcrank phone charger Jul 10 05:35:12 good point, if they didn't take my phone, maybe they're dumb enough that I could just ask for a charger Jul 10 05:35:21 *relives OLPC* Jul 10 05:35:22 and some money Jul 10 05:35:24 motor+crank+diode=handcharger Jul 10 05:35:36 yep Jul 10 05:36:43 though for enough juice to even turn on the fricken moko you'll prolly need a huge motor or a few hours of vigourus cranking ... gook think you watch all those xxx movies eh? Jul 10 05:37:18 no, the power output is 100-500maH at 5v to charge the FR as i understand it Jul 10 05:37:35 solar Jul 10 05:37:43 I wonder how easy it would be to wire up an LED to the FR to act as a flashlight Jul 10 05:37:44 that isn't all too hard to produce, but due to the limited power input, you'd be turning it for hours Jul 10 05:38:04 yeah time to think of making a replacement back panel with a solar cell and battery charge hookup Jul 10 05:38:05 and it's an entirely different motion than practised with those movies ... unless i'm doing it very wrong :P Jul 10 05:38:21 walrustown, very easy methinks Jul 10 05:38:38 Im thinking of doing that with my 1973 but have lots to plan Jul 10 05:38:43 that atleast you could sleep while it charges or foriage for food Jul 10 05:39:24 ieatlint, was that a whisper of some kind or did my IRC client just color it special because my name was in it? Jul 10 05:39:28 <---- IRC newb Jul 10 05:39:41 the second one Jul 10 05:39:48 your name was in it Jul 10 05:39:49 the latter Jul 10 05:39:53 i c thx Jul 10 05:40:04 most irc clients (except mirc) do that be default Jul 10 05:40:07 I was trying to figure out how to whisper back :) Jul 10 05:40:07 walrustow Jul 10 05:40:08 *by Jul 10 05:40:11 oohh almost! Jul 10 05:40:17 alphabea Jul 10 05:40:19 walrustow. Jul 10 05:40:24 WALRUSTOWN Jul 10 05:40:26 walrus in tow Jul 10 05:40:37 learning dvorak? Jul 10 05:40:50 i tried once. learning hurts Jul 10 05:41:00 3.7" x 2.4" solar panel with a 4.5v 100mA DC output for $16 ... that'd do a bit Jul 10 05:41:09 damnit! i want to see the om2007.2 gui Jul 10 05:41:19 but it keeps putting this buggy qt gui instead Jul 10 05:41:22 on the emulator Jul 10 05:41:40 $35 gets you a 7" x 4.5" at 9v and 280mA... but you'd need to drop that down to 5v .. would charge a lot faster though Jul 10 05:42:30 ieatlint: Im thinking of hard wiring it into the USB and making a photosensor to shut off charging so that i can still use the usb. Jul 10 05:42:57 you won't be able to get it thin enough i bet Jul 10 05:43:18 who needs thin when you have linux in your pocket? Jul 10 05:43:20 ieatlint: on the PCB not in the port Jul 10 05:43:39 i kid, i kid Jul 10 05:43:50 i meant the solar panel Jul 10 05:43:56 i know Jul 10 05:44:05 no, i was telling Kris that Jul 10 05:44:09 i know Jul 10 05:44:51 sparkfun sells a 6Ah battery with the same 3.7v output as the FR's 1200mah Jul 10 05:45:12 ah, thickness is not a problem. But the black part of the back separates from the rest, gives a few cm Jul 10 05:45:14 $40... but at .73" thick, it's probably 3 times the thickness :P Jul 10 05:45:37 would be more than 3x the battery life though Jul 10 05:45:48 4x, i mean Jul 10 05:46:01 omg, my math is bad tonight Jul 10 05:46:02 hmm, not much room on the inside, but building out? Jul 10 05:46:04 5x exactly Jul 10 05:46:07 heh :( Jul 10 05:46:29 they do it in laptops all the time Jul 10 05:46:30 anywho Jul 10 05:46:33 a little help please? Jul 10 05:46:44 there are a few custom battery makers Jul 10 05:46:59 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r7b33b4a439c7 10/packages/efl1/etk_cvs.bb: remove etk patch Jul 10 05:47:15 give the dimensions and the volt/amps you want and see if they can handle it Jul 10 05:47:41 cost ya a pretty penny but mass produce a few and sell em to us Jul 10 05:48:14 or fake it and get em to send you a prototype for free ;) Jul 10 05:48:36 hah Jul 10 05:48:43 "i'm gonna need a million so send me one prototype ;)" Jul 10 05:49:01 lol Jul 10 05:49:44 yeah, the batteries on sparkfun are all 54mm x 54mm, and the battery for the FR is 58mm x 37mm :( Jul 10 05:50:29 there were reports that a cheap nokia battery would also fit Jul 10 05:50:35 will have to find the post on the mailing list Jul 10 05:50:42 yeah, i have one. Sucks as bad Jul 10 05:50:53 blc-5 nokia battery Jul 10 05:50:54 yeah, the BL-5C, 850maH methinks Jul 10 05:51:02 ah sweet. is that on the wiki? Jul 10 05:51:20 yes Jul 10 05:51:21 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery (my understanding is it's the same battery for the neo1973 and the FR) Jul 10 05:51:29 ok thanks Jul 10 05:51:46 how'd your suing go ieatlint? Jul 10 05:52:08 still going Jul 10 05:52:18 who ya suin? Jul 10 05:52:25 ex-wife? Jul 10 05:52:30 ouch Jul 10 05:52:33 it was a funny day, in some respects, as my sister was being deposed Jul 10 05:52:37 nah, a sister Jul 10 05:52:45 oh sorry :P that's right. about your father right? Jul 10 05:52:54 how could one sue family? Jul 10 05:52:57 ex-sister then ;) Jul 10 05:53:02 that doesn't sounds good, suing family Jul 10 05:53:10 it never is Jul 10 05:53:12 something about their fathers will Jul 10 05:53:14 and yeah, about my father Jul 10 05:53:17 yep Jul 10 05:53:28 oh she forge a will or somethin Jul 10 05:53:38 nope Jul 10 05:53:51 he was in hospital, had a brain tumour Jul 10 05:54:22 she found him a lawyer and got a new will signed eliminating me from it about 3 weeks before he died Jul 10 05:55:02 thats bunk Jul 10 05:55:15 anyway, there's a lot more to it than that, including her then restricting my access to him and such ... but she herself says i didn't do anything unethical/bad/etc to him, or claim that he said i did Jul 10 05:55:30 so it's really just a whole bunch of bullshit Jul 10 05:55:39 and thus, i sued Jul 10 05:55:52 jeeze what a bitch Jul 10 05:55:54 this was started last november, and could well go into 2009 Jul 10 05:56:25 yeah, i barely got to see him in his final days... only "monitored" visits for like 15min Jul 10 05:57:10 she then violated his wishes and held a viewing of his body, and then had a funeral service (he explicitly stated he wanted neither to me on several occasions) Jul 10 05:57:29 wow Jul 10 05:57:35 a whole lot of fucked up... could go on for hours like this Jul 10 05:57:59 come to think of it i dont think i'd want that either just put a picture of me next to the casket Jul 10 05:58:06 was told he died via text message... had i not been awake at 1am, i wouldn't have known till morning Jul 10 05:58:38 damn, I want to punch her in the face Jul 10 05:58:49 that's the general consensus of most people Jul 10 05:59:17 i remember seeing my grandma/grandpa's open casket and cant say i cared for that "ritual" Jul 10 05:59:26 my lawyer thought i was hiding something terrible i'd done to alienate my father at first... but indeed, he quickly learnt that wasn't the case Jul 10 05:59:51 yeah, as per his wishes i refused to see his body Jul 10 05:59:52 I had a female boss a few years back... Dealing with a real bitch of a client. I only bring this up because, after she walked away from this client, she mumbled "Therapeutic Rape" Jul 10 06:00:35 hmm Jul 10 06:00:38 heh Jul 10 06:00:49 i could be a therapeutic rapist, if given the incentive Jul 10 06:00:56 ROFL Jul 10 06:01:08 i figure large breasts and an alibi would suffice Jul 10 06:01:12 My jaw bounced off the pavement - I didn't know whether to be apalled or bust out laughing. Jul 10 06:01:37 it took a few seconds to think of "therapeutic rape" but thats funny shit Jul 10 06:01:42 you have to be a woman for those breasts to work Jul 10 06:01:45 trust me on this. Jul 10 06:02:12 oh fsck Jul 10 06:02:15 segfault Jul 10 06:02:24 i guess i shouldn't mix build files... Jul 10 06:02:31 stop writing to memory that's not yours Jul 10 06:02:32 this room isnt logged mehopes Jul 10 06:02:39 oh it is Jul 10 06:02:46 oh shit Jul 10 06:02:48 its on the wiki Jul 10 06:02:50 file-system check Jul 10 06:02:52 ~logs Jul 10 06:02:52 yeah, everything you say on irc is logged by like 100 people Jul 10 06:02:53 fsck Jul 10 06:02:53 methinks logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Jul 10 06:02:56 it's a unix manual Jul 10 06:03:01 http://xkcd.com/371/ Jul 10 06:03:02 *utility Jul 10 06:03:06 lol people are gonna google my callsign and get this mess Jul 10 06:03:17 That's for rooly Jul 10 06:03:22 lol Jul 10 06:03:50 will i be sent something when my freerunner is shipped out? like a tracking number? Jul 10 06:04:08 if you got it via fedex or ups, for sure Jul 10 06:04:19 kd8ikt - I googled you a couple hours ago... That's why I no longer use my (expired) callsign as a handle Jul 10 06:04:20 but, since i don't think any of us did, then...mebe Jul 10 06:04:25 hmm.... Jul 10 06:04:35 i paid for 3 day shipping Jul 10 06:04:37 eh * Jul 10 06:04:37 gedit moko.sh Jul 10 06:04:46 i dont really care i have nothing much to hide Jul 10 06:04:48 ozzloy: yes. you'll get an email with tracking info when it ships Jul 10 06:04:57 as for when it'll ship, i have no idea Jul 10 06:04:57 ozzloy: That's 3-days from when the manage to cram it into a box and slap a shipping label on it. Jul 10 06:05:01 whoops paste got jostled in Jul 10 06:05:44 rivalarrival: yeah, i know Jul 10 06:06:05 i thought maybe that'd help determine whether it was fedex/ups or other Jul 10 06:06:14 Oh. Jul 10 06:06:18 should be ups Jul 10 06:06:25 too manny people like to think of the net as a "fictional fantasy land" if more poeple treated it like hanging out at a pub/or whatever public place ... Jul 10 06:06:36 What order are they up to? Jul 10 06:06:50 dunno, i've heard around 1300 Jul 10 06:06:58 i'm 1539 and haven't heard anything yet Jul 10 06:07:15 I'm 1828, I believe... Jul 10 06:07:25 2-3 weeks is my time frame Jul 10 06:07:57 i'm 1660 Jul 10 06:08:11 pleased to meet you 1539, 1828 Jul 10 06:08:18 i was foolishly optimistic and was hoping it'd ship early this week. should have paid for better shipping Jul 10 06:08:22 haha Jul 10 06:08:52 more time to decide what bluetooth keyboard to get Jul 10 06:08:53 Did they start at 1 or at 1000? Jul 10 06:09:15 i'm guessing a more or less random number, but i have no idea Jul 10 06:09:33 probably 1 Jul 10 06:09:46 cause they were sold out before i ever got the info that there was a release Jul 10 06:09:50 why a keyboard? its got wifi/bluetooth/usb as network options , just use ssh Jul 10 06:09:53 how do I turn down the LCD Jul 10 06:09:54 probably around 1000, and not every number is an actual order Jul 10 06:10:29 ozzloy: i got the PS3 logitech KB and its nice, both the KB and mouse pad works Jul 10 06:10:33 rooly: are you talking about the 900MHz model? Jul 10 06:10:45 ssh openmoko then export DISPLAY=:0.0 Jul 10 06:10:45 How many did they produce? Jul 10 06:10:55 400, iirc Jul 10 06:11:00 whatever was on openmoko.com Jul 10 06:11:08 serious thats it? Jul 10 06:11:13 i heard 1367 say he got a ups tracking num Jul 10 06:11:18 at 5:43pm PDT Jul 10 06:11:19 or do you mean it's gsm Jul 10 06:11:24 if so, no, the 850 Jul 10 06:11:34 hell, yeah, the 900 was sold out too Jul 10 06:11:35 i'm 1459... nothing here Jul 10 06:12:42 anybody know if the FR is brickable? or is the flashing utility in ROM? Jul 10 06:13:05 it looks like all of the 900s went to European resellers - the OM store never had them in stock. Jul 10 06:13:52 walrustown, you need the devboard in order to brick it... Jul 10 06:14:01 walrustown: not brickable - there's a version of u-boot in NOR flash that can only be written with a debug board Jul 10 06:14:09 ahh, yay Jul 10 06:14:14 horay Jul 10 06:14:17 that relieves a minor terror Jul 10 06:14:19 my input method is very odd ,how to change input mehtod to qwert? Jul 10 06:14:20 no more htc bullstuff Jul 10 06:14:51 * rooly had is hermes brick at the airport 2 weeks ago... Jul 10 06:15:04 been phoneless ever since Jul 10 06:15:38 daymn Jul 10 06:16:07 I wonder how long before we can get our cell phones implanted in our brains Jul 10 06:16:09 i got off the plane to catch a connection...pulled out my phone to turn it on and check the time...brick Jul 10 06:16:13 ah i found it http://xkcd.com/281/ Jul 10 06:16:33 rooly: just... a brick? no explanation? that's painful Jul 10 06:16:39 someone should drop that in the topic ;) Jul 10 06:16:47 yeah, no explination Jul 10 06:17:08 air preasure? Jul 10 06:17:15 hehe, good comic :) Jul 10 06:17:16 peer pressure Jul 10 06:17:27 pressure Jul 10 06:17:28 on a circuit? i've never known that to affect one Jul 10 06:17:30 it can't be air pressure Jul 10 06:17:39 plus, the cabin is generally pressurised Jul 10 06:17:46 hm i know a lil lcd watch i had busted Jul 10 06:17:53 after a plane trip Jul 10 06:18:02 oh, the hardware was perfect Jul 10 06:18:06 it was a winmo phone tho Jul 10 06:18:11 FSCK!!!! Jul 10 06:18:15 ieatlint: the pressure does fall up until it's the lowest they can get away with Jul 10 06:18:16 a plane trip at 40k feet is equiv to something like 6-9k elevation Jul 10 06:18:16 i don't want to look at qtopia Jul 10 06:18:22 i want to see the gtk interface! Jul 10 06:18:29 right Jul 10 06:18:34 but it's still quite high :D Jul 10 06:18:50 yeah, well, don't go to the mountains here then :P Jul 10 06:19:24 i need to make a beer run... hmm Jul 10 06:19:26 no wonder I can sleep on planes so easily Jul 10 06:19:57 yeah, it's also why some people go crazy, and why alcohol seems to have a greater effect. Jul 10 06:19:59 well, pressurising a plane is pretty hard and pretty expensive Jul 10 06:20:02 oh, btw, anyone that lives near colorado, you have no idea what real heat is Jul 10 06:20:26 what's real heat like? Jul 10 06:20:36 well, for one thing, you sweat Jul 10 06:20:40 profusely Jul 10 06:20:48 we've a heat wave here in california Jul 10 06:20:48 and continuously? Jul 10 06:20:48 there's no breeze Jul 10 06:20:52 the air is stuffy Jul 10 06:21:02 and it feels like an oven Jul 10 06:21:13 which is louisiana on a cool winter day Jul 10 06:21:15 it hit about 70f/20c today.... pretty hot Jul 10 06:21:23 (not really, buy ya know) Jul 10 06:21:37 It's been 107+ down here in tucson Jul 10 06:21:57 isnt there a forest fire in CA right now aswell Jul 10 06:22:06 Can the wifi module be put into AP mode? Jul 10 06:22:06 several, yeah Jul 10 06:22:14 rivalarrival, no Jul 10 06:22:27 Ad hoc? Jul 10 06:22:31 yes Jul 10 06:22:34 oh noes all the peyote is on fire Jul 10 06:23:00 i was up in the mountains working for exxon (another story, btw), and it got over 100 some days Jul 10 06:23:21 but it never felt worse than maybe 75 in louisiana terms Jul 10 06:23:37 humid heat sucks Jul 10 06:23:44 i was in maryland during a heatwave once Jul 10 06:23:51 80% humidity, 98f Jul 10 06:24:10 the AC managed to get the house down to high 80s and 40% humidity Jul 10 06:24:19 felt cool in comparison to the outside, heh Jul 10 06:25:12 ok, me get beer... beer good Jul 10 06:25:49 dont say that its am2:25 here Jul 10 06:25:51 wow Jul 10 06:25:57 i'm loving this gtk thing Jul 10 06:26:05 * rooly got it working Jul 10 06:26:12 Heh, we had a heatwave in Monterey, CA once... It got all the way up to about 85! Jul 10 06:26:33 I hated monterey. Jul 10 06:26:49 neat got qemu/openmoko to boot Jul 10 06:27:04 OOOh, I forgot about that! Jul 10 06:27:10 * rivalarrival goes to play with qemu Jul 10 06:27:32 ok who put a pic of boots during the bootscreen Jul 10 06:27:54 yeah Jul 10 06:28:32 hmm Jul 10 06:28:48 why doesn't the space or enter key seem to affect the emulator after it has been turned on? Jul 10 06:29:08 click the winder Jul 10 06:29:28 i even went so far as to lock the input to that window Jul 10 06:29:29 nada Jul 10 06:30:41 never cared for bootsplashes myself i like watching every lil dumb thing its doing/loading/starting Jul 10 06:33:25 well, same here Jul 10 06:33:32 but it's something you show off to your friends Jul 10 06:33:44 they see that whole "ooo, look at the scrolling text, how ugly" Jul 10 06:33:58 and chide you for having a phone that's smarter than they are Jul 10 06:34:13 well dont emulate windows doing nothing percentbar Jul 10 06:34:23 lol Jul 10 06:34:36 yeah, gotta love that Jul 10 06:34:46 the little bar is moving...and moving...and nothing is happening Jul 10 06:35:00 seems sometimes that more processor time is spent moving that bar than booting your computer Jul 10 06:36:04 i like the echo of whats going on Jul 10 06:36:18 dang Jul 10 06:36:23 rooly: first boot of your freerunner? Jul 10 06:36:31 emulator Jul 10 06:36:35 Does someone know if there's any kind of documentation about phonekit ? Jul 10 06:36:42 anyone get tracking numbers? Jul 10 06:36:50 and if it got to be a perfect boot i'd have those echo's / kernel printk's removed and just see a blank screen till X poped up Jul 10 06:36:51 and the space bar doesn't effect it as a power button after it's finished booting Jul 10 06:37:22 but anyway Jul 10 06:37:24 daMaestro: http://xkcd.com/281/ Jul 10 06:37:33 dang, i forgot how to emulate an SD card Jul 10 06:37:39 i wanna see the media player in action Jul 10 06:37:44 mwhahahhah Jul 10 06:38:16 hah Jul 10 06:38:49 bah Jul 10 06:38:50 must sleep Jul 10 06:39:17 * kd8ikt is suddenly compelled to design an openmoko xkcd Jul 10 06:46:40 morning Jul 10 06:48:48 iwas just thinking... how i read that the moko sucks at keeping accurate time hence the need for ntp... but like my cellphone gets its time via the service provider... Jul 10 06:49:32 dont think it uses gprs and if it does i'm not getting charged for this constant action Jul 10 06:49:59 maybe takes time stamps somehow from the celltowers/network? Jul 10 06:50:31 libgsm? Jul 10 06:52:53 mickey|zzZZzz: there's a cruel lack of information on phonekit :-/ Jul 10 06:53:22 If someone has some information on it by the way I'm interested Jul 10 06:53:33 I'm trying to find what's the integer on phonekit StatusChanged signal Jul 10 06:59:51 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4521 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/ (data/theme/sudoku.edc src/sudoku_ui.py): adjust ui colors (Erin Yueh) Jul 10 07:03:00 good morning Jul 10 07:04:17 guten Morgen Jul 10 07:04:23 Laba Diena Jul 10 07:05:16 dude it must be a gsm thingy Jul 10 07:06:20 like "hey tower can you see me?" "oh yeah btw my clock says blah balh" Jul 10 07:06:41 do we have that sort of raw diagnostic with the gsmd? Jul 10 07:07:19 or is gsmd proprietary Jul 10 07:11:58 nn Jul 10 07:27:52 morning Jul 10 07:29:35 moring Jul 10 07:29:43 or morning - coffee Jul 10 07:31:26 * alphabea1 steps away from pre-coffee person Jul 10 07:31:50 its ok now... i just drained the mug Jul 10 07:37:08 Still no one to point me to resources on phonekit signals ? Jul 10 07:46:40 hey ;) is there a way to run a newer version than milestone 1 of fso? are the code repositories accessible? Jul 10 07:49:18 ecraven: yes, there is access to the code repositories Jul 10 07:49:39 ecraven: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile Jul 10 07:49:58 hi ecraven Jul 10 07:50:32 you can use frameworkd package using opkg Jul 10 07:50:33 but Jul 10 07:50:33 ecraven: the GIT branches are summed up in there as well (do a search for ASU) Jul 10 07:51:06 the head of development for the framework is not working currently Jul 10 07:51:24 do i understand correctly that fso is mostly python? Jul 10 07:51:25 some bugs have been introduced Jul 10 07:51:33 charlie137: so head of FSO doesn't work atm? Jul 10 07:51:35 fso is using the framework Jul 10 07:51:42 which is entirely in python Jul 10 07:51:45 ah, ok Jul 10 07:51:53 ecraven: no Jul 10 07:51:55 i like the interface of fso much more than the others Jul 10 07:51:57 I tried today Jul 10 07:52:02 really ? Jul 10 07:52:03 ;( Jul 10 07:52:10 then you should have a look at tichy :) Jul 10 07:52:13 yes, but the buttons should be bigger still Jul 10 07:52:36 tichy? Jul 10 07:52:43 svn checkout svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/tichy Jul 10 07:52:52 screenshots? Jul 10 07:52:58 old screen shots : Jul 10 07:53:08 http://charlie137-2.blogspot.com/2008/07/introducing-tichy.html Jul 10 07:53:18 i redone the style it looks much better now Jul 10 07:53:46 ;) i'd make the buttons even bigger! use as much space as possible for the dialler Jul 10 07:53:51 you can even try it on your desktop computer Jul 10 07:54:09 just download the source, go into tichy/test Jul 10 07:54:16 and run python test.py Jul 10 07:54:31 (well, you will have to install a few python libraries too) Jul 10 07:55:50 and the last version has better buttons in the dialer :) Jul 10 07:55:56 the drawing screen should have the colors on the buttons as well (the actual colors, not the names) Jul 10 07:56:37 yes Jul 10 07:56:38 right Jul 10 07:56:49 but i just use this drawing app as test Jul 10 07:56:58 so i don't care too much (for the moment) Jul 10 07:57:31 i just wanted to show that direct canvas drawing was easy Jul 10 07:58:59 oh ok Jul 10 07:59:23 I bet a drawing app is going to be popular with non-technical ppl Jul 10 07:59:28 yes Jul 10 07:59:57 and a python applets manager that let anybody write applications in 5 minutes too Jul 10 08:00:02 especially if you can draw over pictures Jul 10 08:00:11 oh no wait... there's no camera on the neo :( Jul 10 08:00:40 how often do geeks really use the cameras on mobile phones... Jul 10 08:00:50 i *hate* the cameras ;) Jul 10 08:01:05 i use mine on very rare occasion, heh Jul 10 08:01:09 I never owned a camera Jul 10 08:01:21 so i like to have one in my mobile personally Jul 10 08:01:37 plus, a phone without a camera isn't banned from strip clubs, bordellos and swinger resorts Jul 10 08:02:16 good point Jul 10 08:02:25 ecraven: they do come in handy once in a while.. But I agreed that some people just use then a *little* to much Jul 10 08:02:30 charlie137: very nice, this is mostly what i think it should be like (only sometimes too much clicking) Jul 10 08:03:04 charlie137: how do i get to the dialler? can i scroll down? Jul 10 08:03:09 Wander_w: There's no camera, no, but it's USB host and has a potentially lage storage :) Jul 10 08:03:11 yes Jul 10 08:03:11 ah, found it Jul 10 08:03:25 and if you click on the title bar a menu pops up Jul 10 08:03:29 need a button to backspace numbers in the dialer Jul 10 08:03:37 (well, if the application defines a menu) Jul 10 08:03:40 yes Jul 10 08:03:48 many things are indeed needed Jul 10 08:04:06 for the moment it is more a proof of concept Jul 10 08:04:19 the main thing i want to see with the freerunner at the moment, is a fucking ups tracking number :P Jul 10 08:04:19 may i help with this? (though i have to learn python first) Jul 10 08:04:21 all the applications are plugins (in the plugind directory) Jul 10 08:04:36 if you want to help Jul 10 08:04:42 So a good image viewer (i see Gwenview basically verbatim as a distinct possibility there) would be, well... :) Jul 10 08:04:47 you can have a look at the applications (in the plugin directory) Jul 10 08:05:04 charlie137: i will Jul 10 08:05:12 i want an sms application ;) Jul 10 08:05:14 try to write some other one, and let me know how it feels Jul 10 08:05:16 leinirAWAY: yeah I know.. but I was wondering how non-technicnical people would use the neo.. they aren't going to use external USB camera's Jul 10 08:05:24 charlie137: will do. is there any documentation about the framework? Jul 10 08:05:50 for the framework : http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Main_Page Jul 10 08:05:53 Wander_w: They can still stick images, videos and music on a 4 or 8 gig microSD :) Jul 10 08:05:54 and also : Jul 10 08:06:05 http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Tutorials/GSM_python Jul 10 08:06:19 but, if you use tichy, you don't need to use the framework directly Jul 10 08:06:38 you have to use tichy service system instead Jul 10 08:07:06 Though there would be good reasons for making an entirely new, small form factor centric viewer (with PopUpDropper support perchance ;) ) especially for the OpenMoko platform :) Jul 10 08:07:31 leinirAWAY: oh yeah.. that sounds like fun.. take a picture of a friend in the train (with you "real" camera) wait until you are at a computer, transfer pictures to SD, wait for friend to be in the same train as you again, then use your moko to draw a mustache on your friends face Jul 10 08:07:37 great fun Jul 10 08:08:06 get a camera with bluetooth and your problem's solved Jul 10 08:08:14 Or just transfer images from friend's phones via... ieatlint said it ;) Jul 10 08:08:23 Wander_w: I don't think the target audience is anyone but technical people, at least not yet... I plan on using my own camera with an eye-fi card, and have the freerunner act as an internet gateway. Jul 10 08:08:41 i'd like a fancy DSLR w/bluetooth :D Jul 10 08:09:10 from what i have seen of the neo1973 while playing with someone else's for an hour.... no consumer in could hope to use it Jul 10 08:09:20 rivalarrival, does the eye-fi do ad hco mode though, since the fr cannot be an ap? Jul 10 08:09:29 anyway, to answer Wander_w 's question, nontechies aren't going to use the fr as a camera, simple Jul 10 08:09:31 also, anyone who doesn't know linux... good luck Jul 10 08:09:34 charlie137: does tichy use gtk? Jul 10 08:09:34 rivalarrival: yeah I know that at the moment it's not a "all-peoples" phone; but a camera is rather essential if you ever do want them as customers Jul 10 08:09:44 (neither are the techies) Jul 10 08:09:52 as is faster than edge data Jul 10 08:10:01 err, faster than gprs ... edge would be more acceptable Jul 10 08:10:22 ecraven: no, direct SDL Jul 10 08:10:35 but i wrote the code in such a way that I can change that in the future Jul 10 08:10:36 Wander_w, no it's not. "Essential" it's only for a subset of "normal people" Jul 10 08:10:39 mjr: I honestly haven't used the eye-fi card much, but I believe it does have the option. There are also efforts to modify the firmware on the cards for additional functionality. Jul 10 08:10:50 charlie137: nice ;) Jul 10 08:10:55 I'll use any widget toolkit that can look as good as what I can do with SDL Jul 10 08:11:10 charlie137: how fast is this on the phone? Jul 10 08:11:12 mjr: yeah, a subset which is an order of magnitude larger than the current market of the neo Jul 10 08:11:22 in fact, the thing is done in such a way, that you could almost use html render as a backend Jul 10 08:11:29 it is fast Jul 10 08:11:35 As far as needing a camera on the phone - I've never used the camera on my old phone for anything but "Hey, neat, my phone has a camera!" Jul 10 08:11:41 Wander_w, doesn't really matter since it's not going to appeal to those people anyway for now Jul 10 08:11:42 a cell phone camera can be convenient, but the quality will always lack since you'll never be able to get a decent lens/sensor onto a cell phone (disregard this message 5-10 years from now) Jul 10 08:11:48 but not as fast as it should be Jul 10 08:12:04 i didn't concentrated on performances yet Jul 10 08:12:46 to run it on OM, you have to compile the cython files first, otherwise it will be too slow Jul 10 08:12:51 what we need is a small usb hub powered by the same li-ion batteries as the FR, so we'll always have a spare battery, and a way to charge a spare Jul 10 08:12:55 mjr: I know.. but I like to look ahead, at the future.. preferable with neo's everywhere Jul 10 08:13:03 At this price point with the current feature set, it's only going to appeal to techies and people who have a grudge against apple. Jul 10 08:13:03 charlie137: very cool ;) Jul 10 08:13:13 charlie137: does tichy support gps and the accelerometers yet? Jul 10 08:13:17 no Jul 10 08:13:20 Wander_w, GTA03 on the other hand will have a cam and though it will probably take quite a while to get that out, the timeframe shouldn't be a lot longer than what it take to get the software up to the "normal person who wants a crappy camera" category as well. Jul 10 08:13:30 er, s/feature/software Jul 10 08:13:42 charlie137: what does test multilines do? Jul 10 08:13:47 nothing :) Jul 10 08:13:52 just a test :) Jul 10 08:14:07 with a multi line label Jul 10 08:14:10 mjr: are you sure it will have a camera? Jul 10 08:14:23 Wander_w, only as sure as the openmoko people have said its going to Jul 10 08:15:06 mjr: ah great! any other features? (I heard they are going to scrap the 3d decelerator Jul 10 08:15:47 the gpu is being scrapped yeah for having too many tradeoffs Jul 10 08:16:32 the plan at least is to have full quad gsm and edge data on that as well, and a new case. That's probably mostly it on what's gonna be different. Jul 10 08:16:46 not to mention, being on the same bus as the sd reader significantly reduces its usefulness Jul 10 08:16:59 that counts as a tradeoff Jul 10 08:17:12 and it's not on the same bus, it's the same chip :] Jul 10 08:17:16 +just Jul 10 08:17:21 hehe Jul 10 08:17:27 splitting hairs .. Jul 10 08:17:41 never say anything that starts with "well, technically..." Jul 10 08:18:11 I didn't start with that ;) Jul 10 08:18:32 mjr: what's the estimate on that? few months? half a year? Jul 10 08:18:34 well, technically you did Jul 10 08:18:40 :) Jul 10 08:18:44 no estimate Jul 10 08:18:52 i'm 2 beers into the night, so i'm just teasing Jul 10 08:19:11 personally I wouldn't expect it before late next spring Jul 10 08:19:18 Well, technically, I'd be happy with a tracking number for the e-mail that's going to be deliverying my UPS tracking number. Jul 10 08:19:24 but I'm not an openmoko guy Jul 10 08:19:29 mjr: good, so i didn't get my FR for nothing ;) Jul 10 08:19:32 Yes, I said deliverying. Jul 10 08:19:36 just keeping informed Jul 10 08:19:37 rivalarrival, what number are you? Jul 10 08:19:41 1828 Jul 10 08:19:56 at this rate, your order will ship friday or monday, heh Jul 10 08:20:13 ieatlint: well.. I'm 2 coffee's into the morning, So I don't like the teasing :P Jul 10 08:20:26 last I heard, they were up to 1300 - anything change? Jul 10 08:20:27 crazy dutch bustard Jul 10 08:20:40 ecraven, yeah, you shouldn't Jul 10 08:20:44 #1367 said he got a ups tracking num Jul 10 08:20:45 have Jul 10 08:20:54 that's the highest i've heard Jul 10 08:20:55 crazy gunslinging USAian Jul 10 08:21:07 mjr: i shouldn't have gotten one? Jul 10 08:21:11 i decline that description Jul 10 08:21:20 i don't own a gun, and i live in the bear flag republic Jul 10 08:21:29 ecraven, shouldn't have gotten it for nothing Jul 10 08:21:35 ;) hope so Jul 10 08:21:49 I don't own a gun either, but I'm glad my neighbors probably do. Jul 10 08:22:00 I mean really, look at how long the fr took after gta01, the 03 isn't gonna be overnight ;) Jul 10 08:22:32 i doubt any of my neighbours own guns... and if they do, it's technically a federal crime to discharge it under any circumstances Jul 10 08:22:57 and also, the 03 isn't gonna be _that_ different from the 02, some incremental improvements Jul 10 08:23:17 Since when is it a *federal* crime to discharge a firearm? Jul 10 08:23:17 charlie137: who's working on the FSO? the om people? or are they working on ASU? Jul 10 08:23:31 i could probably go put my wallet down on the sidewalk and pick it up tomorrow .. unless someone else decided to deliver it to me Jul 10 08:23:59 ecraven: the leader is Mickey Jul 10 08:24:01 rivalarrival, it's a federal crime to discharge a firearm in a national park Jul 10 08:24:10 he is a freelance Jul 10 08:24:10 so did any of the FRs reached to the reciptients at all? still to ship? Jul 10 08:24:12 Ah, I see. Jul 10 08:24:29 or be in possession of one, unless transporting it through it, or in a leased/owned residence Jul 10 08:24:33 aggtrfrad: some people got the FR's yes Jul 10 08:24:34 then there is me :) Jul 10 08:24:38 working for OM Jul 10 08:25:27 Well, with the supreme court ruling re: DC's handgun ban, and the suits against Chicago, I'd say it's just a matter of time before that particular rule is scrapped as well... Jul 10 08:25:31 i live in san francisco, on federal land, and i fully resent any generalisations foreigners have of americans :P Jul 10 08:25:45 Yeah, but that's cause you're gay. :-) Jul 10 08:25:51 nope Jul 10 08:25:51 ieatlint: ah.. so your fat as well? Jul 10 08:26:07 no, i'm very skinny Jul 10 08:26:18 And he shops at walmart Jul 10 08:26:34 the closest walmart is at least an hour away by car Jul 10 08:26:53 Heh, lucky bastard. Jul 10 08:27:05 I've got 3 walmarts within 20 minutes of me. Jul 10 08:27:22 And I DON'T shop at walmart. Jul 10 08:27:39 not even jus a little Jul 10 08:27:42 people in this area avoid walmart Jul 10 08:27:45 Which sucks, because they are putting everyone out of business. Jul 10 08:27:50 nonsense! ALL americans are fat, gun-slinging, big-truck-driving ignorant bastard! :P Jul 10 08:27:57 AMEN Jul 10 08:28:00 lol Jul 10 08:28:17 HauDyrArb: I stopped shopping at walmart awhile ago after they tried to have me arrested. Jul 10 08:29:04 why, were you trying the guns? Jul 10 08:29:05 Wander_w, is America not the 2nd biggest market for the Toyota Prius ? :-° Jul 10 08:29:06 Wander_w: Don't forget rabid Christian... Jul 10 08:29:16 i drive a honda civic on rare occasion (a manual even, a rare find here in the states), i can name at least 20 EU members, locate canada on a map, and countless other things most americans can't Jul 10 08:29:31 and i don't own a gun, or eat excessively :P Jul 10 08:29:38 or drink cheap american beer Jul 10 08:30:27 tsk tsk Jul 10 08:30:44 ieatlint: so next thing you're gonna tell me you're driving a diesel? Jul 10 08:31:00 no, but the clich? would be bio-diesel Jul 10 08:31:05 or a hybrid Jul 10 08:31:20 federal laws prevent the operation of most diesel cars Jul 10 08:31:29 only a handful are allowed Jul 10 08:31:33 i hope you dont drive a hybrid, then you have to smell your own farts :-) Jul 10 08:31:39 HauDyrArb: No, I walked out the door. I'm a bit hard of hearing - apparently, their "greeter" tried to stop me to check my receipt, and when I "ignored" him, they built a human shield around my car and called the cops. Jul 10 08:31:51 it's a manual gasoline vehicle :P Jul 10 08:32:13 37mpg freeway, 35mpg city (including the way i drive it) Jul 10 08:32:49 My S10 got 30/27... Sadly, it needs a bit of work before I can drive it again. Jul 10 08:32:53 rivalarrival, Guilty until prooven innocent Jul 10 08:33:43 HauDyrArb: Yeah, I'm still thinking about suing them... The fucking security asshole walked across the parking lot just to blow smoke in my face. Jul 10 08:34:23 rivalarrival, aah lawsuits the backbone of america Jul 10 08:34:26 that's 6.36l/100km and 6.7l/100km, for you euro folks Jul 10 08:34:30 :-D Jul 10 08:35:17 Damn uppity europeans. Jul 10 08:36:06 eh, i do pretty well shutting them up when they try to make generalisations about americans Jul 10 08:36:14 i voted for a black guy Jul 10 08:36:22 so don't harass me Jul 10 08:36:37 A black guy ran for office? Jul 10 08:36:49 yeah, he was a secret muslim too Jul 10 08:36:55 Yes you're right, you should use units that are not based on a logical metric but on some english traditions :-) Jul 10 08:37:00 terrorist fist jabs and all Jul 10 08:37:04 well.. MY civic does 5.3l/100km Jul 10 08:37:08 A black muslim guy ran for office in the US? Jul 10 08:37:09 Makes so much sense ! Jul 10 08:37:12 Jul 10 08:37:20 take that you gassguzzeling american! Jul 10 08:37:27 hah Jul 10 08:37:40 i stand by my vehicle, it is efficient for its purpose Jul 10 08:38:00 especially when i am constantly surrounded by cars that get 16+l/100km Jul 10 08:38:24 I need an electric vehicle that can go AT LEAST 100 miles at 60mph between charges. Jul 10 08:38:31 and before you go praising the metric system, remember that its french Jul 10 08:38:40 rivalarrival: telsa roadster? Jul 10 08:39:00 la metric systeme (with a gay little cirlyque over some of the vowels) Jul 10 08:39:16 rivalarrival: "le système métrique" Jul 10 08:39:24 don't be insulting the gays now... i may not be gay, but i do live in san franisco :P Jul 10 08:39:26 In french :-) Jul 10 08:39:26 Wander_w: Oh yeah - and I'm only willing to pay a maximum of $5000 Jul 10 08:39:39 what's wrong with frenchies? (except that they smell, make lousy cars and talk funny) Jul 10 08:39:45 lol Jul 10 08:39:47 And they smell funny Jul 10 08:39:52 actually, i've no problem with peugeots Jul 10 08:39:59 Peugeots sucks Jul 10 08:40:01 they're arrogant bastards Jul 10 08:40:05 rivalarrival: ah... uhm.. a souped-up segway then perhaps? Jul 10 08:40:09 -s Jul 10 08:40:15 and i speak from personal experience Jul 10 08:40:23 ieatlint: You didn't meet the right ones Jul 10 08:40:28 Citroén Dont Jul 10 08:40:30 There is stupid people everywhere Jul 10 08:40:33 Wander_w: Heh, pretty much... I'm gonna end up with a bike. Jul 10 08:40:45 (Especially in the USA and San Francisco I heard :-p) Jul 10 08:40:55 well, you tell that to the lille customs officer who decided to stick his hand in my pants without warning Jul 10 08:41:30 nice was she hot Jul 10 08:41:37 Customs officer are the same everywhere Jul 10 08:41:38 he was not Jul 10 08:41:40 +s Jul 10 08:41:58 Same thing for cops, try to joke with one, american or french, same thing Jul 10 08:42:05 (except you won't get shot in france) Jul 10 08:42:21 (or at least end in handcuffs :-p) Jul 10 08:42:26 the coolest guy i have met in france -- over 5 visits, was an immigrant waiter who saved my phone from being stolen by some other bastards Jul 10 08:42:34 I dunno - I've met a few good cops around here. Jul 10 08:42:44 yeah, i joke with cops all the time Jul 10 08:42:45 They are all completely incompetent, but I've met a few god ones. Jul 10 08:42:45 rivalarrival: same here, but the average one is, well, like the average person Jul 10 08:43:01 my niece is engaged to one, they're really nice as long as you don't give them shit Jul 10 08:43:26 ieatlint: it's funny because you said Jul 10 08:43:28 10:40:02 < ieatlint> they're arrogant bastards Jul 10 08:43:38 yeah, the french are Jul 10 08:43:40 And now that's you who's arrogant :-) Jul 10 08:43:45 But hey, nevermind Jul 10 08:43:48 Coffeebreak for me :-) Jul 10 08:43:53 of course i'm arrogant Jul 10 08:44:02 i'm an american and a linux geek Jul 10 08:44:04 Yeah, don't give them ANY shit... For instance, don't say "Can you kindly remove your boot from my testicles? They are starting to chafe" Jul 10 08:44:14 ... and i live in san francisco Jul 10 08:44:20 rivalarrival, LOL Jul 10 08:44:58 i got out of a ticket for going 75mph on a 50mph windy road in mountains because i didn't bullshit the cop Jul 10 08:45:29 i just was honest, up front, and remorseful without being a drama queen Jul 10 08:45:31 Anyway, yeah, so, to hell with guns. I'm developing a medical condition where I need a service animal - a 150 lb German Shepherd/Doberman mix. Jul 10 08:46:27 my plan is to get german citizenship since my friends tell me i can claim unemployment and get ?300+/mo after my rent from the government Jul 10 08:46:44 Nice. Jul 10 08:47:04 I'm going to get a mailbox-condo in Alaska. Jul 10 08:47:21 mmmm, alaskan amber ale Jul 10 08:47:30 :/ Jul 10 08:47:49 ieatlint, if germany is like Denmark, then you have to go to job training and write CV's and stuff Jul 10 08:47:50 ieatlint: well, if it's anything like here, you HAVE to send out sollicitations for jobs Jul 10 08:48:11 (here for me is not denmark btw) Jul 10 08:48:15 HauDyrArb, yeah, they tell me that you have to do that, but when you get an interview, you just show up drunk Jul 10 08:48:42 or just sollicit for the job of CEO, CIO, C?O Jul 10 08:48:44 etc Jul 10 08:48:48 Wander_w, everyone knows that the main city of Denmark is Amsterdam :-) Jul 10 08:48:51 yep Jul 10 08:49:08 hehe Jul 10 08:49:14 All I know is that i never want to be tried by a committee too stupid to get out of jury duty. Jul 10 08:49:25 or Stockholm Jul 10 08:49:32 HauDyrArb: hehe :) Jul 10 08:49:46 rivalarrival, well, good news.... a jury is a right, not a requisite Jul 10 08:49:56 in the US, you have the right to trial by jury or by judge Jul 10 08:50:09 people tend to choose jury Jul 10 08:50:11 ieatlint: Yeah, but the alternative is to be tried by a former lawyer. Jul 10 08:50:32 yeah, it depends on the crime Jul 10 08:50:38 charlie137: nice! just added a backspace button to the dialler, works beautifully Jul 10 08:50:41 if sympathy or confusion is useful, do jury Jul 10 08:50:54 if your arguments start with "well, technically..." .. do judge Jul 10 08:50:59 charlie137: how can i change button height/width? Jul 10 08:51:52 ieatlint: I'd never do something so stupid as to require confusion or sympathy... And I've never known a lawyer intelligent to understand a "well, technically" argument. Jul 10 08:53:15 My only hope is that I can convince a judge that a "jury of my peers" should be composed of people with a similar level of intelligence... Jul 10 08:53:17 my lawyer understands it, he just tends to disregard them Jul 10 08:53:43 rivalarrival, thats an universal law Lawyer IQ = Room tempreture Jul 10 08:53:58 in C Jul 10 08:53:59 "yeah, technically your sister lied under oath by contradicting herself several times, but that won't mean much" Jul 10 08:54:12 "she'll just claim she was nervous, and misspoke" Jul 10 08:55:05 My lawyer was an idiot... My ex wife was earning more than me with lower living expenses. I've got 50/50 custody of my son. My lawyer somehow thinks that I should have been paying $200 a month child support to my ex wife. Jul 10 08:55:29 Her lawyer, of course, thought it should be 600. Jul 10 08:55:45 $200 isn't bad Jul 10 08:56:13 child support can be bullshit, but it's just how things are Jul 10 08:56:16 When I have my son 15 out of every 30 days, and she's earning more than me? Jul 10 08:56:22 that's just... lemme get my calculator.... 10 euro? Jul 10 08:56:31 hah Jul 10 08:56:44 how old is your son? Jul 10 08:57:10 the trick is to encourage him to get emancipated Jul 10 08:57:13 :P Jul 10 08:57:26 6 now. He's now going to school in my district. Jul 10 08:57:35 ieatlint, watch your language :-) Jul 10 08:57:59 uhm, ok Jul 10 08:58:12 hey, that's another thing that sets me apart from most americans... my concept of grammar Jul 10 08:58:41 like my ability to know that "y'all" is not needed, since "you" is already plural Jul 10 08:59:03 The problem was that my lawyer adjusted the amount downward to account for the fewer days she cared for him, but never adjusted her obligation upward because of the additional days I cared for him. Jul 10 08:59:53 hy everybody. I found this project yesterday and I am really excited about it. Jul 10 08:59:57 ieatlint: gee, you should become a french person.. goes great with your attitude Jul 10 09:00:02 Apparently, to receive child support in Ohio, you have to have a vagina, and I was fresh out. Jul 10 09:00:14 I want to get my game running on these smartphones Jul 10 09:00:27 Good for you Jul 10 09:00:29 :) Jul 10 09:00:47 what kind of game? Jul 10 09:00:59 www.lostlabyrinth.com Jul 10 09:01:01 Wander_w, i don't need to Jul 10 09:01:05 Is sdl running? Jul 10 09:01:38 wizkoder: cool website Jul 10 09:01:40 first of all, i don't speak a dying language, have a weird prejudice to islamic customs and i drink beer Jul 10 09:01:50 Sorry, the hardware only supports first-person shooters, not D&D knockoffs. Jul 10 09:01:53 :-) Jul 10 09:01:55 i am quite arrogant enough coming from san francisco Jul 10 09:01:58 lol Jul 10 09:02:31 yay for d&d Jul 10 09:02:39 ieatlint: For the last time: "Gay" != "Arrogant" Jul 10 09:02:52 indeed, my gay friends tend to be less arrogant Jul 10 09:02:53 wizkoder: can your game run in 640 * 480 ? Jul 10 09:03:04 wizkoder: You are not alone in wanting that game on openmoko, looks quite nifty ;) Jul 10 09:03:11 Can it run in 64 x 48? Jul 10 09:03:20 24x80? Jul 10 09:03:55 1080i? Jul 10 09:04:03 1080p? Jul 10 09:04:06 dude... 1080p is much better Jul 10 09:04:17 plus, with 1080p, ntsc and pal are gone! :) Jul 10 09:04:26 yay! Jul 10 09:04:40 I wouldn't know - I'm ditching TV entirely. Jul 10 09:04:54 i'm a video geek Jul 10 09:05:22 ieatlint, yes 1080p is the only good choice Jul 10 09:05:32 ok from the creenshot it looks like 640x480 Jul 10 09:05:43 i tend to get tv programs in 720p though... which is acceptable Jul 10 09:06:44 charlie137: how can i put an icon on a button? Jul 10 09:06:48 the game could run, sdl is working fine Jul 10 09:07:19 ecraven: add an attribute to the class : icon = "my_icon.png" Jul 10 09:07:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3a409e572c9c 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] fix lowlevel channel init if modem is not responding Jul 10 09:07:31 charlie137, what game are you talking about? Jul 10 09:07:39 mickeyl: hey there Jul 10 09:07:40 where my_icon.png is a file in the same directory than your app Jul 10 09:07:44 yes the game is 640x480 pixel Jul 10 09:07:46 charlie137: i mean for the call/edit/.. buttons Jul 10 09:07:59 HauDyrArb: http://www.lostlabyrinth.com Jul 10 09:08:00 mickeyl: Did you see what I asked you some hours ago ? Jul 10 09:08:28 morning Jul 10 09:08:35 type of call? Jul 10 09:08:41 did i forget to document that? Jul 10 09:08:45 if so, sorry, will do asap Jul 10 09:08:45 mickeyl: Nope, solved that looking the sources Jul 10 09:08:47 But yet you forgot Jul 10 09:08:52 s/yet/yes/ Jul 10 09:08:52 Ainulindale meant: But yes you forgot Jul 10 09:08:59 My real problem was related to phonekit Jul 10 09:09:04 ~lart mickeyl for being sloppy w/ docs Jul 10 09:09:04 * apt puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at mickeyl for being sloppy w/ docs Jul 10 09:09:07 And especially StatusChanged signal Jul 10 09:09:21 I don't know at all what is the integer argument Jul 10 09:09:36 think of it as a handle for the call Jul 10 09:09:41 (And we were also wondering about SetDtmf methods and so on) Jul 10 09:09:43 it usually is 1 Jul 10 09:09:49 (if we should use it to do a simple call) Jul 10 09:10:04 Is it useful in any manner for what we intend to do in SHR ? Jul 10 09:10:22 I meant : are the applications using phonekit supposed to use it ? Jul 10 09:10:27 well, dtmf is useful for checking your answering machine and stuff Jul 10 09:10:52 mickeyl: but phonekit doesn't have this kind of functionnality, right ? Jul 10 09:10:53 if phonekit exposes this method, we need to adapt it Jul 10 09:10:54 wizkoder: In that case, sure, should be entirely possible to stick it on te freerunner :) Jul 10 09:11:10 ecraven: yes it is possible Jul 10 09:11:11 Ainulindale: dunno offhand, but applications definitely want that Jul 10 09:11:14 I will install qemu tonight and see how far I get. I do not own the hardware yet Jul 10 09:11:21 i did not get around to implementing the dtmf functions Jul 10 09:11:25 will try to do that later tonite Jul 10 09:11:29 the same way it is done in the main window Jul 10 09:11:30 so many tasks, so little time Jul 10 09:11:33 wizkoder: Yet, of course, being the operative word? ;) Jul 10 09:11:33 * mickeyl buried in work Jul 10 09:11:33 mickeyl: Hmmm. In fact if you have two minutes I would gladly take your opinion on what I wrote yesterday Jul 10 09:11:44 Ainulindale: of course. where can i see? Jul 10 09:11:47 Just to see if I don't use ogsmd in a wrong manner Jul 10 09:12:12 https://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/phonekit-wrapper/dialer.py?rev=3&root=shr&view=markup Jul 10 09:12:18 It's a draft, please mind that :-) Jul 10 09:13:07 Oh I did some errors (didn't have the time to test it, as I don't have yet the freerunner and ogsmd won't start) Jul 10 09:13:20 Going to s/fsoBus/fsoCallBus/ Jul 10 09:13:38 Ainulindale: what is phonekit ? Jul 10 09:13:59 mickeyl: no problem Jul 10 09:14:12 (for the dtmf function) Jul 10 09:14:32 I have one more question. I also read about google's android which seems to be more or less the same thing. But I read it supports java only. I need c++ instead. Anybody here that can compare this 2 projects against each other? Jul 10 09:14:58 wizkoder: one more question about your game : does it need the keyboard ? or only the mouse ? Jul 10 09:15:08 yes, android is a VM based platform Jul 10 09:15:12 you can play it with only mouse and only keyboard Jul 10 09:15:17 good Jul 10 09:15:22 it is C ? Jul 10 09:15:23 not java VM though, even if the source is similar syntax Jul 10 09:15:37 Its purebasic, but we have a purebasic to c++ compiler :-) Jul 10 09:15:48 android is also "just" a linux based OS.. so you should be able to use C++ programs' as well Jul 10 09:15:50 purebasic ?? Jul 10 09:16:02 www.purebasic.com Jul 10 09:16:20 Its commercial .-((( Jul 10 09:16:25 ahah Jul 10 09:16:27 wow Jul 10 09:16:41 just curious : why using this language ? Jul 10 09:16:52 Wander_w, maybe, depends on theeventual actual products if they allow such a thing though Jul 10 09:16:56 Ainulindale: i think you are on the right track. that looks good so far Jul 10 09:17:02 The original was written in blitzbasic. So I decided to use something similar Jul 10 09:17:06 i'm guessing historical reasons? :) Jul 10 09:17:13 Aah :) Jul 10 09:17:27 I rewrote it to be able to play it on linux :-) Jul 10 09:17:36 ooh yeah, lost labyrinth :) Jul 10 09:17:57 and dark's funky purebasic to c++ compiler, was it itself in ruby? :) Jul 10 09:18:01 mickeyl: the only problem is that no one on the time is truly sure of the fact that this will be of use Jul 10 09:18:02 i will give it a try, if it is C++, using SDL, then it should run pretty well Jul 10 09:18:09 And that we're using ogsmd correctly Jul 10 09:18:38 And we were also wondering about PIM Jul 10 09:18:40 would be nice to have some help here. As I am totally new to openmoko Jul 10 09:19:12 That is to say, what is used by openmoko-contacts, and what we should use with FSO Jul 10 09:19:20 You can get the source from the svn. Then you also get elice (this is the comiler) Jul 10 09:19:27 Ainulindale: well Jul 10 09:19:32 to tell the truth Jul 10 09:19:37 personally, I'd rather change the few apps that use phonekit Jul 10 09:19:43 to make them talk OTAPI right from the start Jul 10 09:19:50 That is our second goal Jul 10 09:19:54 but the wrapper may be a quicker solution Jul 10 09:19:54 yep Jul 10 09:19:59 On linux you compile the game by changing into the elice dir. and saying "make laby-svn" Jul 10 09:20:04 We just want to build a wrapper in order to get things right in our mind Jul 10 09:20:09 And start toying with the APIs Jul 10 09:20:16 regarding, openmoko-contacts, please wait until FSO integrated the first GSoC results. We will have basic PIM then Jul 10 09:20:25 * mickeyl watches abraxa_ Jul 10 09:20:26 good evening, everyone Jul 10 09:20:29 I don't have the pretention to understand rightfully all you did on OM so I'd rather begin with small things :-) Jul 10 09:20:36 understood Jul 10 09:20:38 and it's helpful! Jul 10 09:21:00 As long as we're able to make things go forward, I think we will all be happy Jul 10 09:21:20 Ainulindale: you are working on SHR ? Jul 10 09:21:23 Yep Jul 10 09:21:29 Working is a big word Jul 10 09:21:46 wizkoder: where can i get elice ? Jul 10 09:22:13 Ainulindale: do you know about tichy ? Jul 10 09:22:30 its part of the laby svn Jul 10 09:22:32 tichy ? Jul 10 09:22:40 i though you may want to put it on SHR, maybe not as the bootup program though Jul 10 09:22:51 http://charlie137-2.blogspot.com/2008/07/introducing-tichy.html Jul 10 09:23:03 Oh yes saw that Jul 10 09:23:13 By the way - status of wifi in ASU - anybody know? :) Jul 10 09:23:49 charlie137: I didn't quite catch what was the point of tichy I think Jul 10 09:23:58 it just stroke me as a really ugly UI :-p Jul 10 09:24:36 you should check the last version them Jul 10 09:24:40 If you are talking about the purebasic compiler-thingy, I just nudged it's writer to come here Jul 10 09:25:05 svn checkout svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/tichy Jul 10 09:25:12 hello Jul 10 09:25:13 anyone know a current wiki page for getting the Freerunner GPS working? I've modified the gpsd.conf to point to /dev/ttySAC1 and have been out on my balcony with a clear sky for about 20 minutes and can't get any GPS data other than $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*30 Jul 10 09:25:15 charlie137: could you explain to me what it really does ? And by the wway, if you're french, you can query me to say me that in french :-) Jul 10 09:25:50 Ainulindale: tichy could be use basically like zhone, but it much powerful, there a full plugin and service system Jul 10 09:26:10 Hi there! I'm getting a Freerunner soon. Jul 10 09:26:17 you can make a full dialler/contact/message/conf software with it Jul 10 09:26:35 I heard there was some talk about elice here. Jul 10 09:26:39 wizkoder: where is the svn ? Jul 10 09:26:40 charlie137: How exactly ? Jul 10 09:26:51 anyone can point to any reviews about freerunner? i would like to get it and another 9 people here in Italy Jul 10 09:27:04 well, the best way id to have a look at it, you can run it on your desktop no need to compile Jul 10 09:27:09 Hy amtep. I am also thinking about that :-) Jul 10 09:27:25 Amtep, hello Jul 10 09:27:35 www.sf.net/projects/lostlaby Jul 10 09:28:06 the idea is that every part of tichy is a plugin, plugins can define service and use other services Jul 10 09:28:15 There are also separate elice releases under http://clueonic.org/elice/archive/ Jul 10 09:28:26 They're kept in sync with laby releases, it's just a matter of what is easier for packaging :) Jul 10 09:28:35 anyone have info on getting the Freerunner GPS working? Jul 10 09:28:37 even clicking into a edit widget will request a text typing service Jul 10 09:29:35 charlie137: won't you come on #openmoko-cdevel to talk about it ? Jul 10 09:29:42 wizkoder: ye sbut the actual address of the svn repository ? Jul 10 09:29:45 Ainulindale: ok Jul 10 09:29:46 There are several other members of the SHR team there Jul 10 09:30:17 svn co https://lostlaby.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/lostlaby lostlaby Jul 10 09:30:48 wizkoder: thanks i will give it a try Jul 10 09:34:33 guys, in the reviews they say FreeRunner sucks with data rate, so it is a slow thing -- worth buying or waiting? Jul 10 09:35:26 are you a developer sledgeas ? Jul 10 09:35:35 sledgeas: depends on what you intend to do with it Jul 10 09:35:39 yes, im a gentoo geek and c/c++ fan Jul 10 09:35:54 personally I'd wait. Jul 10 09:36:19 polz: use as my phone, and having linux in it, so i don't need my gentoo@laptop to mess around daily :D Jul 10 09:36:36 it's not ready for that yet Jul 10 09:36:53 you can mess about with it... Jul 10 09:36:57 sledgeas: I'd buy an Asus EEE if I were you Jul 10 09:36:58 for what, the phone part? :) Jul 10 09:37:10 but it's not ready for reliable calsl just yet Jul 10 09:37:30 sledgeas: not having a keyboard makes it difficult to "mess about" with the phone without a laptop Jul 10 09:37:37 mainly because they ditched the om2007.2 and started again Jul 10 09:37:50 a bt keyboard would hep Jul 10 09:37:53 hep Jul 10 09:37:56 gah Jul 10 09:37:57 EEE is too big - wont fit the pocket, polz Jul 10 09:37:58 help Jul 10 09:38:00 3rd try before i give up for the night and go to bed: has anyone had any luck getting the Freerunner GPS to work? Jul 10 09:38:19 ScaredyCat: yeah, but a BT keyboard is usually almost as big as a small laptop... Jul 10 09:38:22 yes, id be thinking of a usb/bt keyboard solution, polz Jul 10 09:38:33 iandouglas: Yes - go outside, hold the phone upright :) Jul 10 09:38:39 igo stowaway polz Jul 10 09:38:45 the keyboard id be caryying in my bag Jul 10 09:38:45 (not me, mind, that's what people say :) ) Jul 10 09:38:47 and at least here, an apple BT keyboard costs 75 euro, an EEE costs 300 euro. Jul 10 09:39:08 leinr: i've been out on my balcony for over half an hour, no luck yet, but my Samsung Blackjack 2 finds nmea data just fine Jul 10 09:39:33 polz, the keyboard id be caryying in my bag (which is not always with me) and having an eternal keyboard-less pocket solution (NEO GTA02) is what why i am here asking you now ;) Jul 10 09:40:15 iandouglas: Right... it shouldn't take over 12.5 minutes (which supposedly is a full cycle), but... i've not played with that, so i don't know, i'm afraid :) Just what others said to do :) Jul 10 09:40:20 the openmoko gps ui test module doesn't show anything either, i've been trying different things trying to get gpspipe to find me some nmea data, but all i get on the command line is data like 99.99,99.99,99.99*30 Jul 10 09:40:33 sledgeas: and what did you intend to run on the neo ? Jul 10 09:41:04 polz: anything that comes through my mind, even as getting as low as trying/contributing in porting things (software i like) Jul 10 09:41:40 sledgeas: you won't be able to do that without a proper computer. Jul 10 09:41:40 the gps is another attraction to mess with endlessly Jul 10 09:42:09 yes, but porting is once, using - many, as well as coding gps gadgets for my bike trips on my laptop, and bringing just this gadget around Jul 10 09:42:51 sledgeas: if you're prepared to wait for at least 6 months before basic functionality works and just play with the neo until then, using a normal phone and notebook to serve your daily needs Jul 10 09:42:55 then I'd buy it. Jul 10 09:42:55 http://www.abdohoo.com/mobile Jul 10 09:43:04 otherwise, I'd wait. Jul 10 09:43:28 polz: when's the GTA03 forecasted? Jul 10 09:43:34 no idea. Jul 10 09:43:37 iandouglas: There's a hardware bug (seemingly in the GPS antenna switch) and some people got hit by it. Apparently, you as well Jul 10 09:43:40 prolly >>6 months Jul 10 09:43:43 It isn't yet ;) Jul 10 09:43:46 :):) Jul 10 09:44:15 abraxa_: i have a gta02v5 beta test model, not the v6 model for sale as of last week Jul 10 09:44:16 I have noticed that media player is playing audio files to external speaker, even if the headphones are plugged in the phone Jul 10 09:44:21 (in other words -- GTA03 will due to after way more than "at least 6 months" :)) Jul 10 09:44:32 sledgeas: well, IMHO (and I'm guessing here) even a freerunner might be able to serve your needs in half a year. Jul 10 09:44:34 iandouglas: Same difference Jul 10 09:44:49 :o) Jul 10 09:45:10 sledgeas: or a year Jul 10 09:45:10 will be able to serving in 6 months and on? (to infinity and beyond, or at least for a year) Jul 10 09:45:16 well, hopefully when my 10-pack order comes in, we'll have better luck Jul 10 09:45:17 so that makes it 1,5 yrs :) Jul 10 09:45:18 thanks all, g'night Jul 10 09:45:26 iandouglas: Openmoko, Inc. said that those affected will get it repaired/fixed somehow, so best bet is to keep up with the community mailing list Jul 10 09:45:38 iandouglas: Ninis! :) Jul 10 09:45:39 sledgeas: I've had a 1973 for about a year now and it's only getting better.... Jul 10 09:45:42 are there any plans/information out for GTA03? Jul 10 09:46:02 sledgeas: but it still doesn't work reliably as a phone Jul 10 09:46:04 viq: Not really... There's some sporadic discussions and such, but nothing remotely solid :) Jul 10 09:46:07 are there any plans/information for GTA02 hardware updates on the production line? Jul 10 09:46:21 polz: what do you mean? receiving calls sucks? Jul 10 09:46:25 gsm stack? Jul 10 09:46:31 leinir: and any rumors? ;) Jul 10 09:46:54 sledgeas: it works most of the time. Friends tell me that I sometimes don't pick up the phone when they call me Jul 10 09:47:08 sledgeas: and SMSs also seem to be getting lost somewhere Jul 10 09:47:12 :) and you get no missed calls? Jul 10 09:47:16 sledgeas: that's with the GTK stack Jul 10 09:47:32 (waide, you are not talking about GNOME ToolKit rite? :D) Jul 10 09:47:39 sledgeas: no, I don't always get the missed calls. Jul 10 09:48:31 sledgeas: QTopia was a bit better, but it didn't support suspending to RAM Jul 10 09:48:42 and took about 4 seconds to even ring Jul 10 09:48:56 so people would call me and give up before I was able to pick up the phone Jul 10 09:49:05 sledgeas: The GTA03 will be an improved GTA02, so yes, there are plans and infos Jul 10 09:49:18 sledgeas: No, the Gimp ToolKit ;) Jul 10 09:49:40 leinir: yea, fogot that :) Jul 10 09:51:28 "gta03 Jul 10 09:51:33 ~gta03 Jul 10 09:51:47 Hi there :-) Jul 10 09:52:14 quick question: is there a general bug tracker for the GTK distro ? Jul 10 09:52:59 apt: gta03 is preliminarily edge/quad/camera/new case/no gpu, but that's preliminary plans. No schedule, don't expect it too soon. Jul 10 09:53:01 mjr: okay Jul 10 09:53:24 hmm Jul 10 09:53:25 oops Jul 10 09:53:33 I wonder when they're going to put in USB2.0 Jul 10 09:53:48 (just collating what om guys have been saying about it) Jul 10 09:53:56 once "free" SoCs are available with USB2.0 Jul 10 09:54:09 polz: probably not very soon.. it's integrated on the SoC Jul 10 09:55:16 Wander_w: I know, they'd have to redesign the motherboard Jul 10 09:56:21 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * re001bc4698e3 10/otapi/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Jul 10 09:56:21 freesmartphone.org: OTAPI: remove {Get|Set}DtmfDuration, this is not supported in GSM (oops...) Jul 10 09:56:21 freesmartphone.org: fix documentation for SendDtmf, explicitly stating that you can send a tone string of arbitrary length. Jul 10 09:56:42 well.. they would have to redesign the board anyway to get rid of the GPU, add in quad band.. etc etc. but they'd have to get a different SoC (== different CPU, different LCD driver, possible different instruction set) to get USB 2.0.. lots of work Jul 10 09:58:32 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * reba46185f4d6 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): ogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.SendDtmf(tones) -> () Jul 10 09:58:45 ok, dtmf done Jul 10 09:58:48 that was easy Jul 10 09:59:04 mickeyl: great ! Jul 10 09:59:37 i may be able to use OM with framework as my primary phone soon Jul 10 09:59:45 Wander_w: a different CPU and instruction set shouldn't be too problematic Jul 10 10:00:00 mickeyl: what about SMS ? Jul 10 10:00:02 is that working ? Jul 10 10:00:20 ya, almost everything Jul 10 10:00:29 abraxa_: that GPS hardware... is there a known way to identify if you are affected... i cannot get a fix no matter what i do Jul 10 10:00:43 other than it never works :) Jul 10 10:00:49 Wander_w: and TIs page on OMAP processors says they're supported under Linux, so I'm guessing an LCD driver module might already be available Jul 10 10:00:53 shoragan: alphaone: conference call now? Jul 10 10:01:10 mickeyl: Good that you mention it. Okay Jul 10 10:01:11 ah yes Jul 10 10:01:20 * mickeyl searches for the number Jul 10 10:01:44 053134943742 Jul 10 10:01:48 thanks Jul 10 10:01:51 trickie: Kind of. The symptoms are "does not work with internal antenna and works perfectly with an external antenna attached" - other than that, no way to identify it from what I know Jul 10 10:02:22 abraxa_: ok thanks, i need to work out how to get my hands on an external antenna then Jul 10 10:04:05 trickie: search ML for agpsui! Jul 10 10:04:26 jOERG_rw: i been using that all week, no luck Jul 10 10:05:19 i even load the assist data with http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/matt_hsu/agps-online/ Jul 10 10:05:31 so you probably got a problem :-( we are still searching for the cause, so no other way to figure out yet Jul 10 10:05:32 and that bit works... but i never get a fix Jul 10 10:05:40 np, im patient :) Jul 10 10:05:48 anything i can do/test let me knwo Jul 10 10:05:54 know even Jul 10 10:06:11 edistar_: Hi, biste da? Jul 10 10:06:59 I'm not exactly part of the GPS-taskforce, but please read ML, I think they had a call for broken devices to analize Jul 10 10:09:34 jOERG_rw: sure ill have a looky Jul 10 10:10:08 trickie: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020961.html Jul 10 10:10:26 ta Jul 10 10:30:32 i would like to have my neo to talk to my linux nb via gsm - does anybody have recommendations which modem to buy? i checked with google&&del.icio.us but didn't find anything else than these adapters which frankly don't seem to be bad at all: http://www.control.com.sg/gsm_modem.aspx Jul 10 10:38:24 brundlefliege: Why focus on GSM/GPRS? HSDPA/UMTS/EDGE work just as well if you want to do IP traffic Jul 10 10:40:55 even better so but i wanted to go for the most reliable communications channel Jul 10 10:41:18 if there are devices which are able to do all of that this would be great Jul 10 10:41:19 Carrier pidgeons! Jul 10 10:41:43 ? Jul 10 10:41:58 HSDPA over carrier pidgeons! It's the latest thing! Jul 10 10:42:09 lol? Jul 10 10:42:19 yes, lol Jul 10 10:43:14 wimax would be great but i don't see that coming unfortunately. Jul 10 10:44:47 brundlefliege: to Europe or to OpenMoko? Jul 10 10:44:57 both ;) Jul 10 10:45:10 Heh Jul 10 10:45:19 charlie137: how do i precisely control the size of a Button? Jul 10 10:46:41 brundlefliege: I'd check with your national mobile carriers. Vodafone Germany for example hands you an UMTS modem for the ExpressCard slot that works under linux, too Jul 10 10:48:10 actually a good idea i'll contact our carrier thanks Jul 10 10:49:48 i may get this one http://www.expansys-usa.com/d.aspx?i=156021 Jul 10 10:53:09 swc|666: seems to be nice i hope the linux support is usable though - when do you order yours? Jul 10 10:53:13 ;) Jul 10 10:54:05 Again one of those people who ask questions and leave :) Jul 10 10:54:32 lol thanks for the info ;) Jul 10 10:57:40 ecraven: hum, it depends Jul 10 10:57:58 if your button is in a Box, then the box will decide of the size Jul 10 10:58:30 if you want full control over the pos and size of widget, you can use the special Box : AbsBox Jul 10 10:58:54 AbsBox will let you put the widgets where you want Jul 10 10:59:06 charlie137: if i only add an image to the button, it still is much bigger than the image Jul 10 10:59:13 i want the button to be just a bit bigger than the image Jul 10 10:59:38 do you use a box ? Jul 10 10:59:44 your code should lookl like this : Jul 10 11:00:21 box = gui.Box(parent, axis = 0, border = 0) Jul 10 11:00:21 gui.Image(box, 'myimage.png') Jul 10 11:00:21 gui.Label(box, "hello') Jul 10 11:00:49 border = 0 means : don't add any border in the box Jul 10 11:01:07 have a look in the file "test.py" to see hos it is done Jul 10 11:01:53 charlie137: Great to see another OM employee here :) - mind if I ask what your responsibilities are? Jul 10 11:02:05 i work on the framework Jul 10 11:02:41 mjr: so there will be no _hardware_ updates until gta03 (no gta02.1 .2 ..?) Jul 10 11:03:21 DBus API + implemetation for a set of functions you expect to see on a mobile phone (gsm, device, contacts, etc) Jul 10 11:03:23 charlie137: Oh wait... you're Guillaume Chereau, right? Jul 10 11:03:27 yep Jul 10 11:03:31 oh okay :) Jul 10 11:03:40 i know you ? Jul 10 11:03:45 sledgeas: Correct Jul 10 11:04:26 charlie137: Not that I'm aware of, no Jul 10 11:04:41 Just saw you around working on.. well.. framework stuff ;) Jul 10 11:05:27 charlie137: my code is call_button = gui.Botton(hbox) gui.Image(...).view(call_button) Jul 10 11:05:29 there is no box ;) Jul 10 11:06:11 charlie137: abraxa_ is our hope for the PIM part of the framework Jul 10 11:06:16 :) Jul 10 11:06:44 <`pwgen`> mikeyl: moin Jul 10 11:07:10 <`pwgen`> s/mikeyl/mickeyl/ Jul 10 11:07:10 `pwgen` meant: mickeyl: moin Jul 10 11:07:42 Openmoko twitter client yet? ;) Jul 10 11:07:56 ecraven: ah yes you are right :) Jul 10 11:08:02 sorry Jul 10 11:08:04 hey pwgen Jul 10 11:08:30 so it doesn't look good ? Jul 10 11:08:35 MrShlee: Well, in that Plasma sort of runs on it, and there's a Twitter plasmoid, the answer is a solid "kinda!" ;) Jul 10 11:08:45 ah I know Jul 10 11:08:53 you have to tell the size of your image maybe Jul 10 11:09:16 gui.Image(icon_path, size = Vect(96,96)).view(hbox) Jul 10 11:09:43 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: did you already added the acl to the dbus interface to allow the freesmartphone.gps access ? Jul 10 11:09:45 in your case : gui.Image("myimage>png", size = Vect(w,h)).view(call_button) Jul 10 11:10:18 guys, don't you think that moko will remain a just-and-only geek's gadget, when android will go big and for-human-beings, google and its community hosting vast choice of good software and support? Jul 10 11:11:55 sledgeas: No, cause Android sucks and only gives people the freedoms google permits. Jul 10 11:12:04 `pwgen`: yeah, pushed that a couple of minutes ago Jul 10 11:12:38 yea, but google is big, and they will go bigger, permitting things Jul 10 11:12:41 sledgeas: no, Openmoko can go mainstream, because freedom will allow us to implement applications where other platforms only can dream of Jul 10 11:13:32 mickeyl: like...? Jul 10 11:13:38 yes, i wanted to ask the same Jul 10 11:14:46 p2p connectivity, querying CC-licensed data, machine control, there's a lot what you can't do on closed platforms Jul 10 11:14:55 or what operators don't want you to do... Jul 10 11:15:04 p2p over GSM? :) Jul 10 11:15:17 gprs, wifi, BT Jul 10 11:15:27 charlie137: i pass 96,96, but the button looks the same as if i passed 'Call' Jul 10 11:15:28 sledgeas: Also, keep in mind that google will want to push ads and interests of commercial entities (= their clients) Jul 10 11:15:32 (including that assumed) Jul 10 11:15:33 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: any proceedings for the preferenced or will be the dbus-gonf used in fututre = Jul 10 11:15:49 `pwgen`: we have a lean-and-mean preferencesd now Jul 10 11:16:03 if operators don't want the stuff people do on openmoko's, won't they just outright ban openmoko's from their networks? Jul 10 11:16:26 Wander_w: unlikely. Jul 10 11:16:30 they won't track down that there's an openmoko client behind Jul 10 11:16:39 they would have to ban entire IMEI areas Jul 10 11:16:40 <`pwgen`> i know but my git cheackout only provided 2 methods not the whole bunch that was mentioned at the freesmartphone wiki Jul 10 11:16:54 exact Jul 10 11:17:01 `pwgen` : really ? Jul 10 11:17:06 what method do you have ? Jul 10 11:23:23 <`pwgen`> i am now at work and cannot verify it, but the last time i looked at prefd ( 5 days ago ) i thing i saw only 2 methods introspect and service Jul 10 11:27:38 <`pwgen`> how can i control the fso powermanagement behavior ( doing apm -s instead of showing screensaver ) and dis/enable wakeupevent when changeing gsm-cells Jul 10 11:29:32 pwgen: these are the name of the interfaces Jul 10 11:29:46 each interfaces then provide methods Jul 10 11:29:47 <`pwgen`> charlie137: introspect provides the default methods, but i server there were only 2 call Jul 10 11:29:56 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * rbf4aba96d7b6 10/mickeydbus/ (TODO mdbus): mickeydbus: enable listening mode also for specific service or object Jul 10 11:30:36 hi+ Jul 10 11:31:31 `pwgen` : ok i need to check that Jul 10 11:31:32 <`pwgen`> charlie137: i Know, but i wasnt able to find for example the "GetKeys()" method, ( maybe PEBKAC of mine .. ) Jul 10 11:31:42 could be a bug in my code :O Jul 10 11:31:46 ah Jul 10 11:31:55 but first you have to call the GetService method Jul 10 11:31:58 <`pwgen`> its actually git.freesmartphone.org ... Jul 10 11:32:02 this method returns you an object path Jul 10 11:32:18 and then you use that object to call GetKeys, GetValues, etc Jul 10 11:32:29 `pwgen`: there's no fine grained control over suspend/resume yet. why would you want to wakeup when changing the gsm cell? Jul 10 11:33:26 I'm tryiing to get the om-mediaplayer to run with the correct buttons but it seems like the correct pixmaps where missing.. - is there some idea to install them? Jul 10 11:33:52 <`pwgen`> .. thats the problem ... my moko wakes up after 4 sec or 40 secs , an i think the modem does some signalling. Jul 10 11:34:02 i_b0t: They where in the original theme.. Jul 10 11:34:13 <`pwgen`> and it will not go to sleep mode again , so it will drain power very fast Jul 10 11:34:29 i_b0t: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 10 11:34:39 ebbe: strange, I didn't install any other theme.. Jul 10 11:34:51 i_b0t: I mean the old theme Jul 10 11:35:04 Before the current Jul 10 11:35:45 ebbe: ah ok so I'll try to extract them there, thanks! Jul 10 11:36:16 i_b0t: The wiki page I gave you has all you need Jul 10 11:36:24 `pwgen`: interesting. can you tell me what wakes it up? please send me the output of 'logread', might give me a clue Jul 10 11:36:37 fso does stop CREG messages on suspend Jul 10 11:36:40 either that doesn't work Jul 10 11:36:50 or you're seeing some other messages which I forgot to turn off Jul 10 11:36:54 this is milestone1 or self-built?` Jul 10 11:37:14 abraxa_: thanks, surely i saw this page already but there was no hint on this topic.. Jul 10 11:37:32 <`pwgen`> its an andy kernel branch and frameworked 5 days old Jul 10 11:37:35 i_b0t: Please check it again then ;) Jul 10 11:37:59 abraxa_: yes, I'll do so :) Jul 10 11:38:38 abraxa_: ah :) "And if you want the Media Player back:" ! Jul 10 11:39:01 `pwgen`: aah, self-built. Jul 10 11:39:10 everything can happen between milestones :) Jul 10 11:39:21 probably the +CGEREP Jul 10 11:39:53 ya Jul 10 11:40:48 <`pwgen`> i know ... not seeing the diffrence between gps and gsm ,,searching 4 hours why the gsm ist not allowd ,,, and then seeing... gPs and not gSm .... Jul 10 11:41:37 :) Jul 10 11:42:37 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: wait 4 hours, and i will send you what you need.i have forgotten my moko at home. and its booted into the nand image. Jul 10 11:43:17 http://rafb.net/p/iWDVPz26.html should fix it Jul 10 11:43:21 how's milestone2 looking in 6 days? Jul 10 11:43:27 ecraven: bad :/ Jul 10 11:43:31 <`pwgen`> LOL Jul 10 11:43:32 i'm afraid we're not going to make it Jul 10 11:43:37 i looked at the timeline today ;) Jul 10 11:43:50 framework is ok, but zhone lacks Jul 10 11:43:56 i'll help with diagnosing things, i'm running milestone1, and i'll try anything you give me an image of Jul 10 11:44:06 we need to postpone a week. Jul 10 11:44:54 i might release a testing image next week for people who want to test (via dbus console) the new features like multiparty handling, gprs, call forwarding, etc. etc. Jul 10 11:45:13 but the official ms2 will probably come out one week alter Jul 10 11:45:15 later Jul 10 11:46:25 i am going home Jul 10 11:46:35 tired Jul 10 11:47:31 hum, if there are problems making a input widget in zhone, why not using tichy, it is largely inspired by zhone, and it has an input widget Jul 10 11:47:49 (of course i am biased) Jul 10 11:48:33 charlie137: thanks for all the help! Jul 10 11:48:40 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: i am working on a little gtk gui ( adapting my old pyneo gui didnt work, too much changes (:-(( ) Jul 10 11:48:59 cool. might be a chance to join forces with SHR? Jul 10 11:49:07 ecraven: ur welcome Jul 10 11:49:08 <`pwgen`> SHR ? Jul 10 11:49:32 the guys working on a stable hybrid release with the best bits from ASU and 2007.2 on a FSO foundation Jul 10 11:50:06 bye Jul 10 11:51:26 <`pwgen`> its a pure python approach . something to play with my org.freesmartphone.Audio dbus sound manager Jul 10 11:56:08 This just answered most of my questions ;) http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 10 11:59:39 openmoko: 03matt_hsu * r4522 10/trunk/src/target/AR6kSDK.build_sw.18/ (221 files in 46 dirs): Init commit for wmi unitility Jul 10 12:01:33 MrShlee: :) Jul 10 12:02:29 `pwgen_away`, please use /away and don't change your nick Jul 10 12:02:38 `pwgen_away`, it's very annoying if everybody would do this Jul 10 12:13:34 hi. i heard from IDA again Jul 10 12:13:40 they want to send it back to USA again Jul 10 12:13:47 to be resent with new declaration or whatever Jul 10 12:13:54 i think i'm going to cancel my Openmoko order Jul 10 12:14:03 anyone tried call deflection with the Calypso yet? Jul 10 12:14:07 :-p this has been pretty disappointing to me. Jul 10 12:14:31 the response from steve hasnt been exactly supportive Jul 10 12:15:04 hi, why did openmoko.com postpone the new orders for 900th GTA02 from july 15th to 25th and how many times will they be postponing that? Jul 10 12:15:32 sledgeas: ordering somewhere? Jul 10 12:16:23 Guilt: buy from openmoko store: "GSM 900Mhz variant stock is due on on July 25th" (yesterday it was july 25th) Jul 10 12:16:46 s/25th\)/15th\)/ Jul 10 12:17:00 sledgeas: i've already sent IDA the money Jul 10 12:17:03 and even if i did buy Jul 10 12:17:13 the bastards at my country's customs wont let me have it Jul 10 12:17:25 ;p motherfucking bastards. Jul 10 12:17:31 with their bribes and what not Jul 10 12:17:53 Guilt: what country? Jul 10 12:18:00 yea, that's pretty frustrating Jul 10 12:18:17 prolly one of the fuc**ing Bush's "axes of evil" Jul 10 12:18:39 Thu Jul 10 14:18:38 CEST 2008 Jul 10 12:18:46 sledgeas, you are wrong Jul 10 12:19:17 nuclear_eclipse: India Jul 10 12:19:20 maybe, i hope so (if you are talking about the axis) Jul 10 12:19:30 hmm, india has a direct dirtributor there Jul 10 12:19:35 ah, I thought there was a local distributor in Inda? Jul 10 12:19:46 s/Inda/India Jul 10 12:20:15 yea, so you can order from their store within country lines shipping them prolly Jul 10 12:21:15 sledgeas: I'd assume it has to do with the newly discovered NOR and GPS issues Jul 10 12:21:17 then i dont understand guilt's sentence about country's customs, when IDA is already in india itself, what customs? Jul 10 12:21:57 abraxa_: oh ok, i hope they are not canceling the stock line? :D as it was once with intel CPU chips :D Jul 10 12:23:21 abraxa_: what NOR issues? Jul 10 12:23:53 nuclear_eclipse: i'm trying to call up steven, pat meier and chelsea wei now. Jul 10 12:24:02 nuclear_eclipse: i'm trying to call up steven, pat meier and chelsea wei now. Jul 10 12:24:16 apparently none of them are online. and I WAS ordering it in India. Jul 10 12:24:37 sledgeas: the country's airport authority's custom officials are holding the phone Jul 10 12:24:42 they are NOT releasing it Jul 10 12:24:59 so whoever has ordered in India has basically just forsaken it to these assholes Jul 10 12:25:54 there is NO person in openmoko even trying to solve it from their end. they get their money and that's all they care Jul 10 12:26:05 why should anybody buy Openmoko then? Jul 10 12:26:19 what can they do from their end? Jul 10 12:26:19 If you bought it from a local distributor, it's not openmoko's problem... Jul 10 12:26:48 It's the distributor's responsability... Jul 10 12:26:50 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ref4565b87401 10/packages/initscripts/initscripts-1.0/banner: turn off banner output to cleaner boot Jul 10 12:26:50 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rcf2458714c8f 10/packages/initscripts/initscripts-1.0/openmoko/bootmisc.sh: disable ldconfig for faster boot Jul 10 12:26:51 they don't have a business in India, they're just the one shipping a package Jul 10 12:26:59 Ainulindale: if the local distributor is asking for openmoko's help in clearing customs, it's not his responsibility. Jul 10 12:27:22 they sent it by UPS, and apparently they didnt put the MRP in it, they didn't put the description right? Jul 10 12:27:26 Guilt: I think you're overreacting a little :-) Jul 10 12:27:31 don't give me the 'it's not Openmoko's problem bs' Jul 10 12:27:55 because IT is. Jul 10 12:28:51 *Sigh* :-) Jul 10 12:28:55 well, IDA is the official distributor. what you are telling is that IDA did not receive a _single_ freerunner yet (though sales started this week) in india as all of them are being held? Jul 10 12:29:14 no, they havent Jul 10 12:29:35 (at india's customs) that's strange, because then the internet should be full with all indian geek (like me) people complaining Jul 10 12:30:17 abraxa_: what issue is there with the NOR? I haven't heard of any problem with it. Can you enlighten me? :) Jul 10 12:30:23 Guilt, i got confirmation that they will be shipped this early next week Jul 10 12:30:37 *this weekend or Jul 10 12:34:48 Any current plans about ASU moving to the Qtopia 4.4.0 ? Jul 10 12:35:10 does milestone 1 of FSO have drivers for the gps? Jul 10 12:35:23 mbuf: not to me. and they dont know if the customs fellows are going to do it. Jul 10 12:35:53 ecraven: iirc, yes Jul 10 12:35:57 ecraven: drivers might be there, but no software afaik Jul 10 12:36:00 oh wait Jul 10 12:36:16 /dev/ttySAC1 exists, but it seems the gps is disabled Jul 10 12:36:18 argh, drivers are sw, too.. you know what I mean? Jul 10 12:36:21 my eyes tricked me, I could have sworn that read gprs :P Jul 10 12:36:35 where in /sys/devices/platform/.. is the gps ? Jul 10 12:36:45 Tanuva: i only need the device, that gives me nmea Jul 10 12:38:29 mbuf: this is what i've been told. Jul 10 12:38:44 that it's put on a relatively 'low' priority in the customs and they will do it when they want to. Jul 10 12:38:54 and that zoheb has sent stuff from his end. Jul 10 12:39:15 i just called up the guy now. Jul 10 12:39:17 echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron helps ;) Jul 10 12:39:26 who is elsie li, anybody know her? Jul 10 12:40:24 mbuf: i'm assuming you're from India too? Jul 10 12:40:33 well. if you want to, ask Zoheb Jul 10 12:40:58 Guilt, yes Jul 10 12:45:04 Guilt, ok Jul 10 12:45:15 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rdf8987b25880 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Jul 10 12:45:15 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: add transferring a call (call deflection service) via org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.Transfer(s:number) -> () Jul 10 12:45:15 freesmartphone.org: NOTE: does not work at all on TI Calypso, possibly/hopefully other modems ;) Jul 10 12:48:51 hi there, i just received my freerunner, so i'm a little bit of a noob. i tried 'opkg upate' but it tries to download Packages.sig which is not available on the server. Jul 10 12:49:28 does anybody know what i am doing wrong or has the filename on the server changed so Packages.stamps? Jul 10 12:49:44 that doesnt prevent it from updating, its just a trust thing Jul 10 12:49:53 ah ok Jul 10 12:50:03 so the update did work... Jul 10 12:50:04 they are investigating on that issue afaik Jul 10 12:50:08 yes Jul 10 12:50:14 thx! :) Jul 10 12:50:21 np! :) Jul 10 12:50:38 Hello, I am looking for help with the OpenMoko Wifi Chip ( WM3236AQ from Accton ) , Where is the best place to request help on this chip linux drivers ? Jul 10 12:51:15 Try first and look in the wiki Jul 10 12:51:17 I 've just suscribed to the openmoko kernel mailling list Jul 10 12:51:39 can anyone explain the difference between Tichy and Zhone to me? Jul 10 13:02:54 I already did this. I am working exactly on the same chip with Accton, and I would like some help on the drivers on you svn Jul 10 13:03:26 It's very high level questions about the Ar6000 driver internals Jul 10 13:03:53 kernel mailing list is best Jul 10 13:04:35 or look for hrw in here (he's hrw|gone in #oe at the moment) Jul 10 13:04:43 has anyone here tried Chicken Scheme on the neo? Jul 10 13:05:03 I saw that Samuel Oritz '( sameo ) worked on this driver Jul 10 13:08:42 Is it possible to talk to sameo on this channel ? Jul 10 13:09:02 nup Jul 10 13:09:15 i dont think so Jul 10 13:09:24 he was a contractor from openedhand who worked on the wifi driver Jul 10 13:09:29 he's not contracted anymore Jul 10 13:12:42 raster: Speaking of which, is wifi supposed to work in the ASU 20070810 snapshot? Jul 10 13:13:48 . Jul 10 13:15:52 i've had it work Jul 10 13:16:06 but i've had to manualy configure it with /etc/network/interfaces Jul 10 13:19:14 Right... no GUI handling of it yet, just wondered :) Jul 10 13:28:12 does the glamo support opengl? Jul 10 13:31:22 the game has 640x480 pixels. the freerunner a 480x640 display. Is there a way to tell the x-server to display everything like 90 degrees rotated? Jul 10 13:31:41 wizkoder: Yes, xrandr Jul 10 13:31:42 yes Jul 10 13:31:51 but touchscreen will be "wrong" Jul 10 13:31:54 input doesnt get rotated Jul 10 13:31:55 cool. that makes thing easier :-) Jul 10 13:32:03 xrandr will rotate Jul 10 13:32:27 ecraven: no. no drivers for it. and even at best openglES 1.1 if they were written Jul 10 13:32:34 and then only at limited resolutions Jul 10 13:32:36 eg qvga Jul 10 13:32:47 not vga (640x480 or 480x640) Jul 10 13:33:57 raster: so for graphics, it is X11 or SDL? would directFB work? Jul 10 13:34:09 sdl Jul 10 13:36:19 ecraven: dfb will work as u can access the glamo via /dev/fb Jul 10 13:36:22 but it wont be fast Jul 10 13:36:25 thats for sure Jul 10 13:36:26 slooow Jul 10 13:36:32 u can just use x Jul 10 13:36:32 what is fastest? sdl? Jul 10 13:36:45 u wont be going and improving access another way really Jul 10 13:36:50 open up a window Jul 10 13:36:52 draw to it Jul 10 13:37:16 ahoi Jul 10 13:39:45 Status Update: Got my shipping notification last night at 9pm EST for order #1220 Jul 10 13:39:51 should be here on Tuesday! Jul 10 13:40:47 cool Jul 10 13:48:38 so how do those of you that already have a Neo deal with the instability? Do you carry an extra (cheap) phone around and swap your SIM? Jul 10 13:48:38 Xaos: me too! mine's in san pablo right now... Jul 10 13:48:58 Xaos: i'm gonna hang onto my free phone from AT&T, just in case :P Jul 10 13:49:08 yep...San Pablo for me as well...actually, it departed San Pablo at 2:23am this morning Jul 10 13:49:10 Xaos, I just don't mind it that much usually... Jul 10 13:49:38 what are the primary instabilities seen? dropped calls, not ringing, etc.? Jul 10 13:51:49 Xaos: Depends on the distribution, I'd say Jul 10 14:00:32 abraxa_: elaborate please? OM2007.2, FSO, ASU is there a wiki article with the strengths/weaknesses of each of these yet? If not, I'll put it up if anyone wants to send me the info. Jul 10 14:01:21 Xaos: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ might be what you have in mind, not sure Jul 10 14:01:39 ok...I've seen that article...I was hoping for more details...thanks though Jul 10 14:01:57 should we put the info from there into the wiki or just keep passing that link around? Jul 10 14:02:19 Xaos, have you seen http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ ? Jul 10 14:02:42 dvarnes: you type slower than abraxa_ Jul 10 14:02:58 :-) yep .. got distracted :-) Jul 10 14:03:01 Xaos: I'm not sure. If extended to the scope of "this works, this doesn't", then I fear the wiki pages will be outdated sooner than we'd like Jul 10 14:03:45 abraxa_: yeah, I see that, but it would be nice to have a nice grid with the major features (at least) and the 3 distros with notes on how each compares. Jul 10 14:03:59 Information is always out of date...at least there would be something Jul 10 14:04:32 Hi! Does FreeRunner have video cam? Jul 10 14:04:35 If there is nothing currently up on the wiki, would it be useful for me to at least put up a skeleton that others can fill in? Jul 10 14:04:38 no cam Jul 10 14:04:50 j- Jul 10 14:04:52 J-23: but usbcam is possible somehow, there are efforts Jul 10 14:04:53 Xaos: Indeed. Feel like adding that piece of information somewhere then? Jul 10 14:04:55 ok. Jul 10 14:05:04 J-23: wait until GTA03 (or 04 or 05) ;-) Jul 10 14:05:19 too late :P Jul 10 14:05:26 ok...I'll see what I can do...won't be much info, but hopefully others can start filling it in Jul 10 14:05:49 wow 7 days to ship from US to Canada :P Jul 10 14:06:04 by horseback I guess :-) Jul 10 14:06:05 It will arrive half a day before I leave for Hope in NYC :P Jul 10 14:06:58 anyone know how to create a NEW page in the wiki? Jul 10 14:07:28 LetoTo: it's taking 4 days from California to Texas Jul 10 14:07:36 Xaos: just put in the url, and it should show up as a edit page Jul 10 14:07:50 nuclear_eclipse: ok...cool thanks! Jul 10 14:07:54 yw Jul 10 14:08:45 do you think that http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions would be a good URL? Jul 10 14:09:04 sounds good to me :P Jul 10 14:09:16 then that's what it will be... Jul 10 14:13:42 the search function in the wiki is poor, fx. you search for SHR with no results to find the article you have to search for hybrid, is there anything that can be done? Jul 10 14:14:12 not really, mediawiki has always had pretty poor searching abilities Jul 10 14:14:42 usually it's better to google search "site: " to get what you want from a wiki Jul 10 14:15:04 it feels like search in wikipedia is better but maby they have done something? Jul 10 14:15:24 * nuclear_eclipse thinks wikipedia uses a highly customized version of mediawiki Jul 10 14:15:34 hi mickeyl Jul 10 14:15:39 good food? Jul 10 14:17:27 nuclear_eclipse, could we then add a button that says search for this in google? Jul 10 14:17:47 don't ask me, I'm not in charge of the wiki :P Jul 10 14:18:08 but in my opinion, it would definitely be a good idea Jul 10 14:18:34 thats a quick and dirty fix but it works :-) Jul 10 14:18:37 they already have a completely custom theme/template, why not make it actually useful? ;) Jul 10 14:19:26 ok, someone help me come up with a list of Features that we want to track/compare between the distributions Jul 10 14:19:36 always ): Jul 10 14:19:45 :) Jul 10 14:19:45 Tanuva: my stv680 based webcam (usb1.0, bulk transfers) is surely going to work, isn't it+ Jul 10 14:20:03 mickeyl, it did take an hour ;) Jul 10 14:20:12 Xaos: GSM, SMS, GPRS, GPS, Accelorometer, Browser, Terminal Jul 10 14:20:21 lindi-: I dont know, try it :) Jul 10 14:20:34 Tanuva: have to wait a few weeks still :( Jul 10 14:20:36 is there cairo support on the neo? Jul 10 14:20:37 Xaos, pim, phonebook, Jul 10 14:20:42 lindi-: (and maybe add info to the wiki if you got results) Jul 10 14:20:54 Tanuva: sure Jul 10 14:21:04 Tanuva: my first project will be about adding a keyboard :) Jul 10 14:21:43 Xaos: FSO is available "now" via Milestone 1, which features dialer/sms (i think) as a bare package Jul 10 14:21:45 Xaos, i think you should replace GPRS with WIFI Jul 10 14:22:01 I'll use both Jul 10 14:22:04 both are good to track, actually Jul 10 14:22:09 nuclear_eclipse: isnt sms still to come? Jul 10 14:22:12 ;-) Jul 10 14:22:21 I dunno, I don't have my FR yet :P Jul 10 14:22:30 it arrives tomorrow :D Jul 10 14:22:35 yay :D Jul 10 14:22:51 perfect timing for my daf off :P Jul 10 14:22:56 GPRS: GTA01 none GTA02 none GTA03 none GTA04 who knows GTA05 ??? Jul 10 14:22:57 s/daf/day/ Jul 10 14:22:57 nuclear_eclipse meant: perfect timing for my day off :P Jul 10 14:23:01 I have mine since monday and Im desperately trying to get a qt4 sample app to compile for the neo >.< Jul 10 14:24:22 my first goal is to figure out which build is the most stable as a *phone*, and flash that to the FR, and then set up a dual-boot on the SD card with a different stack for goofing raound Jul 10 14:24:53 good idea maby ill copy that Jul 10 14:25:28 Xaos: GTA01 and GTA02 have GPRS, not sure what you're going off about :) Jul 10 14:25:54 abraxa_: I didn't realize I was going off about anything Jul 10 14:26:08 Xaos: My bad, I meant HauDyrArb Jul 10 14:26:14 Jul 10 14:26:15 abraxa_: what's the NOR issue you were talking about? Jul 10 14:26:45 OK, anybody want to add anything else to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 10 14:26:47 hi everyone Jul 10 14:26:47 nuclear_eclipse: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1568 Jul 10 14:26:58 good idea nuclear_eclipse Jul 10 14:26:58 abraxa_, ok then i was thinking about EDGE Jul 10 14:27:39 HauDyrArb: Oh ok Jul 10 14:28:00 Xaos: I'm sure kdean can add some points - unfortunately he's not around Jul 10 14:28:48 Xaos, maby add a point called stability/usability ? Jul 10 14:29:49 HauDyrArb: I was thinking that we would have stability/usability for each of the options... Jul 10 14:30:04 for instance, is GPS stable and/or usable in each of the distros? Jul 10 14:30:12 Scary thing would be if the value for such would be "N/A" ;) Jul 10 14:30:28 Xaos: GPS is pretty much just echo 1 >file;cat /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 10 14:30:34 Xaos, fine with me Jul 10 14:30:36 Xaos: there is nothing really to be unstable Jul 10 14:30:52 SpeedEvil: explain? Jul 10 14:31:07 Xaos: the GPS is just on a serial port. Jul 10 14:31:12 I'm talking about the chart here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 10 14:31:22 GPS was an example feature... Jul 10 14:31:41 the question is if the GPS Software is stable in each of the distros Jul 10 14:31:47 Ah. Jul 10 14:31:49 and every other feature listed there Jul 10 14:31:50 Xaos, or you could add a final line where you grade the distribution between 1 and 5 FreeRunners :-) Jul 10 14:31:51 How are we, gentlemen? Jul 10 14:32:04 Well - the first question would be "GPS software, what GPS software?: Jul 10 14:32:20 HauDyrArb: LOL I need a tiny FR icon to use for the grading then Jul 10 14:32:30 SpeedEvil: exactly Jul 10 14:32:55 I think I am going to take the FR out for a gps roundup today, do you think that's worth publicly documenting, Speedevil? Jul 10 14:33:19 Dave: publicly document EVERYTHING! ;-) Jul 10 14:33:22 Dave: sure Jul 10 14:33:24 hah! Jul 10 14:33:25 Alright Jul 10 14:33:41 Dave: JOSM can make traces for you from NMEA output Jul 10 14:33:44 I think I'll be testing a FR, N95, and Garmin device Jul 10 14:33:55 Speedevil, we'll be generating the traces ourself Jul 10 14:33:56 Dave: test all FR Jul 10 14:34:00 if you want I'll post them all Jul 10 14:34:07 All my freerunners? Jul 10 14:34:10 Dave: yes. Jul 10 14:34:16 I've already done a test against each other Jul 10 14:34:17 Dave: to see variances between them. Jul 10 14:34:23 Dave: dynamics is important Jul 10 14:34:29 I'll post them if you want :D Jul 10 14:34:33 today even! Jul 10 14:34:44 (I hope) :D Jul 10 14:34:46 Dave: my 1973 is quite accurate normally. Until it's moved. Jul 10 14:34:47 Stupid meetings Jul 10 14:34:52 Ah, yeah Jul 10 14:35:05 My opinion still holds though, the altitude is almost always "made up" Jul 10 14:35:06 Then occasionally it leaps off track by dozens of meters when it fails to take a corner. Jul 10 14:35:10 or the satellites give it bad info, hah Jul 10 14:35:17 ah :x Jul 10 14:35:40 the altitude never seems to be remotely correct unless I have 13/12 or 12/12 satellites when using tango Jul 10 14:35:45 I'll have fun testing it today :) Jul 10 14:35:49 Dave: inside? Jul 10 14:35:54 hey, looking for assistance with some compile problems using the toolchain :) Jul 10 14:36:04 Dave: and are you sure it's not a ft/m thing? Jul 10 14:36:17 SpeedEvil, it sound like it dont average the measuerments Jul 10 14:36:24 oh, and on the road home yesterday I took multiple screenshots of tango while driving, so I could compile a little motion clip to show it in action for disbelievers :) Jul 10 14:36:40 SpeedEvil: Isn't the corner error because of the driver believing it is a car gps, and can't take sharp corners? Jul 10 14:36:41 Speedevil, inside what? Jul 10 14:36:57 ebbe: ... Jul 10 14:37:00 I take sharp corners all the time with the FR, it's had no problems. Jul 10 14:37:06 ebbe: the driver is essentially the whole GPS. Jul 10 14:37:16 maybe one, but that's because it was around a skyscrper and it temporarily lost signal :P Jul 10 14:37:16 Dave: I'm talking about gta01 Jul 10 14:37:21 right Jul 10 14:37:25 ebbe: the hardware (for 1973) is just a dumb software radio. Jul 10 14:37:39 SpeedEvil: But gllin is not Jul 10 14:37:57 ebbe: no, it's not - hoever, without source, I can't exactly say what the issues with it are. Jul 10 14:38:00 You're right, it's software :P Jul 10 14:38:22 Stupid close source :/ Jul 10 14:38:24 * SpeedEvil has auto_dcc=yes if anyone wants to send him the gllin source. Jul 10 14:38:25 smurfy-phil: Put the messages into a pastebin please, maybe it's something obvious Jul 10 14:38:46 hehe Jul 10 14:39:11 goddamn my freerunner needs more memory Jul 10 14:39:32 i cant doo it captain i need more memory Jul 10 14:39:33 hungry hungry freerunners Jul 10 14:39:53 abraxa: http://pastebin.com/d4d935550 Jul 10 14:41:35 smurfy-phil: Ahh, the infamous /space problem. There have been 2 or 3 posts on the devel mailing list the past couple of days about it Jul 10 14:41:55 go go gadget swap! Jul 10 14:42:02 Swap mode, Engage! Jul 10 14:42:09 have the freerunners already been shipped? Jul 10 14:42:15 I have not gotten any status notification Jul 10 14:42:22 i can compile the sample app, calculator, but can't compile any of the panel apps Jul 10 14:42:24 smurfy-phil: Grepping for "space/fic" in the toolchain might give you a clue where it comes from. Maybe you can change it. Jul 10 14:42:24 except saying that I ordered Jul 10 14:42:34 dtx: order #? Jul 10 14:42:50 nuclear wessels! Jul 10 14:42:52 I got shipping confirmation last night on order #1326 Jul 10 14:42:56 my order is #2442 Jul 10 14:42:56 dtx: orders in the low 1200's shipped last night Jul 10 14:43:04 anyone knows something_ Jul 10 14:43:22 Speedevil, I played with the screen brightness and vibrator the other day, as well as the touchscreen Jul 10 14:43:33 hmm, vibrators, eh? Jul 10 14:43:46 Yeah I've already made a $400 vibrator out of it :) Jul 10 14:43:46 one sec Jul 10 14:43:49 haha Jul 10 14:43:52 lol Jul 10 14:43:54 awesome Jul 10 14:43:58 I guess Jul 10 14:44:01 my wife will be *happy* ;) Jul 10 14:44:08 seems like a waste though if you ask me Jul 10 14:44:21 dtx, you know something about the shipping? Jul 10 14:44:41 She'd probably say, why are you giving me a shower radio to stick in me? Jul 10 14:44:45 #2403 Jul 10 14:44:46 *rolls eyes* Jul 10 14:44:50 well, it *could* be a $400 vibrator that plays pr0n videos while it's going... :P Jul 10 14:45:18 :D Jul 10 14:45:22 what about #2403? Jul 10 14:45:25 with it's MONO spkr? yeah Jul 10 14:45:27 Oh ACTUALLY Jul 10 14:45:31 now that you mention it, nuclear_eclipse Jul 10 14:45:35 order #2403 Jul 10 14:45:46 I've already looked into *briefly* the Freerunner's water resistance :P Jul 10 14:45:49 where are they shipping out of Jul 10 14:45:51 ? Jul 10 14:46:02 I'm like, this thing is SO cool, how can we NOT have a water-proof version of it :D Jul 10 14:46:09 dtx: fremont, CA Jul 10 14:46:09 I'd totally want to take it in the pool with me :P Jul 10 14:46:24 ok, mine is #2442. Do you know when it ships? Jul 10 14:46:29 do I get a tracking number @some point Jul 10 14:46:33 Dave: I know, same here Jul 10 14:46:54 yes, you'll get a message from UPS with a tracking number once it has shipped Jul 10 14:46:54 Geotag deep end, baby! :p Jul 10 14:47:06 the deep end Jul 10 14:47:32 first vibes, now the deep end... I have a dirty mind! Jul 10 14:47:46 :D Jul 10 14:47:49 Dave: lucky it's got a lanyard. Jul 10 14:47:53 * Dave high-fives nuclear_eclipse Jul 10 14:47:54 dtx: im order 1214, in the US, mine shipped yesterday from CA Jul 10 14:47:58 yeah ;p Jul 10 14:48:04 and they give you a UPS tracking # Jul 10 14:48:08 oh Jul 10 14:48:09 speedevil, mine didn't come with any though :[ Jul 10 14:48:09 nuclear_eclipse: do you know when the orders #24XX will start shipping? Jul 10 14:48:12 cool Jul 10 14:48:34 just to calm down my anxiety :P Jul 10 14:48:35 mmaestri: no clue Jul 10 14:48:39 some of mine came with the neoprene pocket case though Jul 10 14:48:42 mmaestri: clearly :D Jul 10 14:48:54 but it seemed (to me) about 500 a day or somesuch.... Jul 10 14:49:01 aw shit Jul 10 14:49:05 it's melting again Jul 10 14:49:06 abraxa: is there a other way writing panel addons for the freerunner (maybe python), allready done the main work as a daemon, only need a small ap which displays an icon based dbus events Jul 10 14:49:15 and it started monday, right? Jul 10 14:49:22 Tuesday Jul 10 14:49:57 root@om-gta02:~# uptime 14:49:26 up 2 days, 9:29, 1 user, load average: 2.96, 2.75, 2.66 Jul 10 14:50:05 nice Jul 10 14:50:08 ~_~ Jul 10 14:50:10 STOP DOING THAT! Jul 10 14:50:16 yay! melting! Jul 10 14:50:20 ok, today is thursday...it's been 1500 orders since then, right? Jul 10 14:50:20 no, not yay Jul 10 14:50:29 Wurp! Jul 10 14:50:40 * SpeedEvil measures rasters heat of fusion. Jul 10 14:50:50 It's been 90s and it's still transitioning over from the lock display screen to the home screen Jul 10 14:50:56 Speedevil, excellent! >:) Jul 10 14:51:13 I get this a lot, when, say, I leave an app on overnight, which must leak like a mofo Jul 10 14:51:19 mmaestri: I'm just going by someone saying their order #10xx shipped Tuesday evening, and my #1326 shipping last night Jul 10 14:51:21 but this time I don't think I left anything running :| Jul 10 14:51:25 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r0de2a3a0215d 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/input.py: odeviced: fix LOG_ERROR typo in input.py. Patch by Tim Niemeyer. Jul 10 14:51:56 hahaha Xglamo ... apparently more like Xblamo! Jul 10 14:52:09 smurfy-phil: not so easily said/done Jul 10 14:52:14 It's running at 90%+ CPU forever... Jul 10 14:52:19 ASU is different to the gtk+matchbox image Jul 10 14:52:20 and balooning Jul 10 14:52:30 and the pure qtopia ones yet different again Jul 10 14:52:42 smurfy-phil: There sure is, just no one has rewritten one of the panel addons in python yet :) Jul 10 14:52:46 and as usual openmoko today just keeps on balooning Jul 10 14:52:53 pos Jul 10 14:53:02 i use the 2007.2 image (daily) Jul 10 14:53:06 Dave: it may not be xglamo Jul 10 14:53:11 Daviey: swapon to an external 1TB drive. Jul 10 14:53:12 well it may not be its fault Jul 10 14:53:22 rememebr its a service to draw gfx and handle input Jul 10 14:53:28 it COULD be an x client (eg om today) Jul 10 14:53:29 raster, then what? Jul 10 14:53:34 continually sending heavy draw requests Jul 10 14:53:37 eg xrender stuff Jul 10 14:53:44 and that is going to be schlooooow Jul 10 14:53:58 it's slow because it's using all the cpu and the phone has run out of memory Jul 10 14:54:01 :D Jul 10 14:54:06 also fucking neod is a pos Jul 10 14:54:08 smurfy-phil: dunno - thats some matchbox panel thing Jul 10 14:54:10 this has been proven Jul 10 14:54:20 Qtopia runs on X right? Jul 10 14:54:27 aroo Jul 10 14:54:28 Dave: i caught my asu image being slooow Jul 10 14:54:28 dtx: yes Jul 10 14:54:31 thinkign it was glamo Jul 10 14:54:37 it actually was the wifi driver Jul 10 14:54:46 hald had also baloomed to 30+mb Jul 10 14:54:46 haha if I could take a picture of the screen right now, I would Jul 10 14:54:54 np: Blame Glamo! (to the tune of Blame Canada) Jul 10 14:54:57 raster, this isn't the first time this has happened to me, as well Jul 10 14:55:06 Though clearly from my uptime, it's particularly bad right now :D Jul 10 14:55:12 and hald + wpa_supplicant + wifi driver between them were eating al the cpu and xglamo wassuffering badly as a result Jul 10 14:55:21 oh gawd, hald,... hahaha Jul 10 14:55:27 it's memory usage is off teh scales Jul 10 14:56:05 It's one of the worst offenders, I'd say. Jul 10 14:56:17 Sensibly, I suppose, but still not particularly excusable. Jul 10 14:56:25 The pure Qtopia one will come with gtk & all libs for that right? Jul 10 14:56:49 Because I dislike Qt licensing Jul 10 14:57:01 hah Jul 10 14:57:03 hald should never offend memory-wise Jul 10 14:57:13 it really should be a tiny in-the-background daemon Jul 10 14:57:16 theres something up Jul 10 14:57:17 Raster, hahaha I have to find that screenshot then :D Jul 10 14:57:19 * XorA wonders what dtx finds offensive with GPL Jul 10 14:57:33 Raster I have it on two separate freerunners yesterday using 256M Jul 10 14:57:35 :D Jul 10 14:57:38 dtx: no . pure qtopia is.. pure qtopia Jul 10 14:57:55 No GTK?? Jul 10 14:57:57 So yes, I'd venture a guess that "something is up," as you said :p Jul 10 14:57:59 Isn't that kind of limiting Jul 10 14:58:00 of coursenot Jul 10 14:58:02 qtopia != x11 Jul 10 14:58:13 u cant use anything gtk when using qtopia Jul 10 14:58:22 qtopia has itsown windowing system (qws) Jul 10 14:58:27 thats why ASU exists Jul 10 14:58:34 it has a port of qtopia back to x11 Jul 10 14:58:36 so Qtopia doesn't run on X Jul 10 14:58:36 and uses X Jul 10 14:58:45 and thus gtk and everything else works Jul 10 14:58:54 "pure" qtopia does not Jul 10 14:59:01 (run on x) Jul 10 14:59:11 yikes Jul 10 14:59:12 raster, I initially flashed ASU (the hybrid build), it was terribly unstable and quite laggy :p Jul 10 14:59:12 the only version fo qtopia that does is the one in ASU Jul 10 14:59:16 so I ditched it Jul 10 14:59:46 qtopia apps are quite laggy Jul 10 14:59:55 the qtopia engine is very nasty gfx-wise Jul 10 14:59:55 Why did we ditch the GTK interface? Jul 10 14:59:58 very inefficient Jul 10 15:00:02 it's being fixed tho Jul 10 15:00:10 :[ Jul 10 15:00:16 Couldn't we have used the qtopia libs for controlling the phone while keeping the old interface? Jul 10 15:00:18 dtx: the gtk apps did have major usability issues Jul 10 15:00:23 but more they were unstable Jul 10 15:00:30 and our management much preferred qtopia Jul 10 15:00:32 they loved it Jul 10 15:00:32 raster, yes well, I wish someone would attempt to debug some of these terrible leaks :| Jul 10 15:00:35 and wanted qtopia Jul 10 15:00:37 even opkg! Jul 10 15:00:43 I've blown it up a couple times now Jul 10 15:00:57 and qtopia isnt "qtopia libs" Jul 10 15:00:58 I think I already submitted one initial report about that one though Jul 10 15:00:59 its qpe Jul 10 15:01:05 its one big process that does the phone handling Jul 10 15:01:12 also the gui for dialling, calling etc. Jul 10 15:01:13 I see Jul 10 15:01:14 * Dave shudders Jul 10 15:01:17 that is exactly what asu is Jul 10 15:01:21 smells like fail Jul 10 15:01:22 its using the bits of qtopia Jul 10 15:01:28 similarly like openmoko-today Jul 10 15:01:30 dtx: See SHR Jul 10 15:01:36 ~SHR Jul 10 15:01:37 it has been said that shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 10 15:01:44 hah! Jul 10 15:01:48 where does qtopia store the .desktop files for the launcher? Jul 10 15:02:02 Dave: Gotta pimp our stuff Jul 10 15:02:05 So it does come with GTK libs? Jul 10 15:02:08 Even if it doesn't exist just yet Jul 10 15:02:24 dtx: To whom are you speaking? Jul 10 15:02:52 anybody who can answer accurately Jul 10 15:03:02 hells yeah Jul 10 15:03:04 because I see "some of the 2007.2 GTK software" Jul 10 15:03:04 Tanuva: /usr/share/applications Jul 10 15:03:24 oh man Jul 10 15:03:34 dtx: ASU comes with gtk, qt, efl, etc. etc. Jul 10 15:03:40 its a standard "x11 desktop" Jul 10 15:03:42 Pimp Your Freerunner! Jul 10 15:03:43 raster: thanks :) Jul 10 15:03:46 ie - coms with multiple toolkits Jul 10 15:03:48 :D Jul 10 15:03:51 use the one youlike best Jul 10 15:04:13 its meant to tole qtopia vs x11/gtk flamewar at bayry and at least keep the qh Jul 10 15:04:16 by offering all of it Jul 10 15:04:20 anduser gets to choose Jul 10 15:04:38 Choose your own demise. Jul 10 15:04:50 dtx: But we don't know what "it" is w/o knowing to whom you're talking Jul 10 15:04:51 as i said before Jul 10 15:05:02 the gtk apps were slow - a lot due to the bad choice of theme engine and theme engine code Jul 10 15:05:04 Freerunner Jul 10 15:05:05 Some unknown entity! Jul 10 15:05:07 and were not very usabel Jul 10 15:05:15 the icons were obscure and u dodnt know what to press Jul 10 15:05:15 dtx: Freerunner is hardware, not software Jul 10 15:05:19 but a fix of theme Jul 10 15:05:20 raster's typing is cute. Jul 10 15:05:27 chaniging icons or icon to labels Jul 10 15:05:30 would have helped a lot Jul 10 15:05:41 there wasstil just general bugs and stability Jul 10 15:05:44 OK, I was wondering if this Freerunner I have coming to me will have be able to run GTK apps out of the box Jul 10 15:05:47 that was a lot due to gsmd Jul 10 15:05:51 and partly the gtk apps Jul 10 15:05:58 but the gtk stack had the blame heaped on it mostly Jul 10 15:06:03 unfortunately for it Jul 10 15:06:09 yeah Jul 10 15:06:16 * SpeedEvil wonders how stable gtk apps'd be if they had the work that went into ASU. Jul 10 15:06:27 SpeedEvil: rock solid Jul 10 15:06:35 SpeedEvil: and sitting on top of the ASU demons Jul 10 15:06:44 and there was much pressure to "make qtopia work on our phones because we need to ship something that makes calls" Jul 10 15:06:46 demons is right! :P Jul 10 15:06:46 SpeedEvil: FSO deamons Jul 10 15:06:53 eeeeeeeeeeevil! Jul 10 15:06:55 all Jul 10 15:06:59 you dont know how close u were to having phones ship with only pure qtopia Jul 10 15:07:01 :) Jul 10 15:07:19 raster: I hate to say it, but wouldn't that have been better? Jul 10 15:07:24 So the phone's we are getting run Qtopia with an X layer on top of it Jul 10 15:07:27 i would say no Jul 10 15:07:28 in which GTK can run? Jul 10 15:07:33 as then u eiother qrite all apps using qt Jul 10 15:07:40 and thus all apps u write MUST be GPL Jul 10 15:07:46 dtx: The phone, when you get it, has the 2007.2 release on it, which is all GTK Jul 10 15:07:48 OR you pay a license fee to trolltech Jul 10 15:07:55 not exactly what i call freedom Jul 10 15:07:56 oh Jul 10 15:07:57 The stuff Raster talks about is ASU, another release Jul 10 15:08:03 if the only brand of freedom is the gpl lbrand Jul 10 15:08:13 ugh Jul 10 15:08:20 great! Jul 10 15:08:20 SHR is a third release, and Qtopia a fourth (although Qtopia comes from TrollTech, not OM or the OM community) Jul 10 15:08:22 I like GTK Jul 10 15:08:22 dtx: no. X is the windowing system in ASU Jul 10 15:08:24 I prefer my freedom in multiple flavors Jul 10 15:08:28 dtx: exactly like your desktop Jul 10 15:08:30 no different Jul 10 15:08:32 it runs a window manager Jul 10 15:08:41 and uses qtopia based apps for phone stuff Jul 10 15:08:46 ok Jul 10 15:08:48 excellent Jul 10 15:08:52 and runs the qtopia (qpe) "process" for al the call handling Jul 10 15:08:54 That sounds perfect for me Jul 10 15:09:11 I'm glad its not the other way around Jul 10 15:09:18 But in ASU, Qtopia has been ported to run on X, so people often talk about Qtopia in here when they really mean the Qtopia in ASU Jul 10 15:09:18 if it were pure qtopia Jul 10 15:09:27 u would only have qws as the windowing system Jul 10 15:09:33 and u'd be stuck to using qt for your gui Jul 10 15:09:41 and thus your apps would be gpl - or pay a fee to trolltech Jul 10 15:09:43 thank god you guys did that Jul 10 15:09:50 u cant licesne as bsd, miot-x11 or any otheross license Jul 10 15:09:55 :D Jul 10 15:09:59 by doing a standard x based ui Jul 10 15:10:02 with standard wm Jul 10 15:10:06 porting qtopia back to x11 Jul 10 15:10:16 so its the same as normal qt (the qt behind kde) Jul 10 15:10:19 raster: I'm not suggesting that we go for Qtopia on the framebuffer in the long term Jul 10 15:10:24 in ternms of being able to run on x11 Jul 10 15:10:29 u hgave your freedom back Jul 10 15:10:30 :) Jul 10 15:10:45 raster: I'm suggesting that for the shipment, if you want a phone that works & media player, etc, Qtopia is the most stable platform right now Jul 10 15:10:48 Indeed - the Qtopia stack is rather different, and i'm glad that one's finally shown up on the list of latest images on the wiki - makes the distinction a little bit more clear :) Jul 10 15:10:54 wurp2: the phones dont ship with asu Jul 10 15:10:57 ok kids. I'm going to do a wiki page of order numbers vs shipping confirmations Jul 10 15:11:05 wurp2: they ship with the gtk ui Jul 10 15:11:08 And frankly ASU so far has been a cluster, because it broke the 2007.2 release and still isn't usable for a phone Jul 10 15:11:11 raster: I know Jul 10 15:11:22 But 2007.2 was broken for a while, not sure if it is now Jul 10 15:11:40 The porting of other UI toolkits that's being done in the ASU project seems like a great plan Jul 10 15:11:42 no one inside OM is bothering about 2007.2 Jul 10 15:11:50 The other stuff, not so much Jul 10 15:11:52 not as their job at any rate Jul 10 15:12:05 raster: That's my point - shipping with 2007.2 and not bothering about it is an issue Jul 10 15:12:12 personally i'm never goingto use asu Jul 10 15:12:18 i agree - its a clusterfuck Jul 10 15:12:27 ack Jul 10 15:12:28 ASU means what exactly? Jul 10 15:12:33 i've been removing options because product management insist on them beingremvoed Jul 10 15:12:36 that scares me to see you say that! Jul 10 15:12:43 raster: :-( Jul 10 15:12:46 config options i put there because i know peolpe will want to change things Jul 10 15:12:50 i know i sure as hell do Jul 10 15:13:00 but it was deemed that users "dont need thoseconfigoptions" Jul 10 15:13:04 so all ability to change them is gone Jul 10 15:13:16 and for me thats a veto on ever using the thing Jul 10 15:13:23 Holy crap, what are they on?! Jul 10 15:13:25 and if the developers who work on it arent wanting to use it... Jul 10 15:13:28 raster: Wouldn't it have been nicer to have an "advanced" checkbox somewhere that hid them? Jul 10 15:13:32 i agree - thats a great sign of a major clusterfuck Jul 10 15:13:48 (or unhid them, rather) Jul 10 15:13:55 what options exactly? Jul 10 15:14:00 examples? Jul 10 15:14:00 wurp2: not allolwed to have an advanced checkbox Jul 10 15:14:06 it "Clutters the ui" Jul 10 15:14:09 wurp2: No, advanced is very, very wrong - see the kde usability mailing list archives for a long and exhaustive discussion on why :) Jul 10 15:14:12 its "too confusing for users" Jul 10 15:14:13 ... Jul 10 15:14:27 the only way u will get it if u hack the code yourself Jul 10 15:14:27 It does not clutter the ui, the term "advanced" is pure idiocy Jul 10 15:14:31 Who's it advanced for? Jul 10 15:14:34 leinir: !!?! Jul 10 15:14:40 as obviously all advanced users are goingtopatch and rebuild the code to make it work for them Jul 10 15:14:41 ... Jul 10 15:14:43 NOT Jul 10 15:14:55 leinir: I disagree completely Jul 10 15:15:05 dtx: simple options like being able to separayely set time until the screen blanks and if the system will suspend or not Jul 10 15:15:23 dtx: so u can set it to blank in 60 seconds, but never suspend (because u are hacking on it over usb) Jul 10 15:15:27 but it was deemed too complex Jul 10 15:15:35 wurp2: Right, so... How do you define the term "advanced"? Jul 10 15:15:37 so u have a choice of setting thetime until it blanks Jul 10 15:15:39 or turning off blanking Jul 10 15:15:49 and it will ALWAYS suspend immediately after it blanks Jul 10 15:16:00 ew Jul 10 15:16:03 leinir: I don't think it's terribly important how you define it... maybe it should be "detailed" configuration Jul 10 15:16:03 even tho the code has separate options for each Jul 10 15:16:04 that is dumbtarded Jul 10 15:16:16 and can do it in a way that u can make it do what u want Jul 10 15:16:23 It's the options you think people aren't going to want to fiddle with most of the time, except when they do Jul 10 15:16:26 things like being able to choose what "gadgets" are on the "top bar" Jul 10 15:16:26 can you not edit a .file Jul 10 15:16:28 ? Jul 10 15:16:34 eg battery, gsm, wifi, usb, bluetooth etc. Jul 10 15:16:43 being able to enable/disable them Jul 10 15:16:44 removed Jul 10 15:16:49 argh Jul 10 15:16:51 that is stupid Jul 10 15:16:59 this is an OS Jul 10 15:17:01 wurp2: And... How do you find that information? : Jul 10 15:17:05 :) Jul 10 15:17:08 being able to determine if animation happens or not Jul 10 15:17:11 ship with acceptable defaults and let advanced users do their own thing Jul 10 15:17:13 Which features are used more often? :) Jul 10 15:17:17 (eg keyboard slides in or just pops up) Jul 10 15:17:20 and the framerate Jul 10 15:17:24 (10fps, 20, 30, 60fps etc.) Jul 10 15:17:31 leinir: It's the options half the people working on it think no one will ever use Jul 10 15:17:31 u get the defaults Jul 10 15:17:35 and no choice to change them Jul 10 15:17:47 that is stupid Jul 10 15:17:51 can't edit .files? Jul 10 15:17:54 no Jul 10 15:17:59 leinir: So your choice is, leave them out, put them in the normal option list, or put them in the "detailed" option list Jul 10 15:18:00 config is in binary files Jul 10 15:18:04 wurp2: And the people working on it being developers of course use the software the same way the vast majority of users who *aren't* developers do, yes? ;) Jul 10 15:18:07 (thyats enlightenment config) Jul 10 15:18:18 it want designed to have users go behind the ui's back and edit .files Jul 10 15:18:23 leinir: No, the developers are "advanced" ;-P Jul 10 15:18:31 it was designed to ALWAYS provide an easy gui-way o configre anything Jul 10 15:18:39 wurp2: The word you are looking for is "different" ;) Jul 10 15:18:40 so u dont HAVE to go editing files Jul 10 15:18:51 leinir: You can tell me that "advanced" is very, very wrong. I just don't believe you, or don't agree, take your pick Jul 10 15:18:52 i have a config dialog for setting all of these thigns and mroe Jul 10 15:18:54 is there a pkg we can install to reenable that capacity Jul 10 15:18:54 thereis a gui Jul 10 15:18:56 but it will be removed Jul 10 15:19:01 because it is "ot desired" Jul 10 15:19:05 leinir: Anyway, I should work. Jul 10 15:19:09 err Jul 10 15:19:11 not desired Jul 10 15:19:14 wurp2: ok, have fun! :) Jul 10 15:19:14 and no Jul 10 15:19:18 no package u can install Jul 10 15:19:30 u'dd need a different set of initial default config files Jul 10 15:19:33 i can brew them up Jul 10 15:19:36 but its a lot of effort Jul 10 15:19:37 even then Jul 10 15:19:47 theres lotsof bits of the ui that i just really dont like Jul 10 15:19:51 REALLy dont like Jul 10 15:19:55 so i'm just not going to bother Jul 10 15:20:07 i'll end up maintaining my own os images most likely Jul 10 15:20:18 you gonna make a public repository? Jul 10 15:20:19 with a completely different ui Jul 10 15:20:20 Right... openmoko-raster? ;) Jul 10 15:20:25 len likely - yes Jul 10 15:20:37 as i sure am not going to use ASU as my phone Jul 10 15:20:39 i shall be looking forward to seeing that :) Jul 10 15:20:50 Jul 10 15:20:56 dtx: i willo - but all my time is sunk into asu Jul 10 15:21:04 right Jul 10 15:21:10 it will just take time Jul 10 15:21:24 ~ASU Jul 10 15:21:25 i heard asu is the April Software Update, an release name for a OpenMoko distribution. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Feature_Plan. Jul 10 15:21:30 ah Jul 10 15:21:46 fork(raster); Jul 10 15:21:57 XorA: aye Jul 10 15:21:57 :) Jul 10 15:22:07 i'll base it off asu Jul 10 15:22:17 but i'll likely be firstly changing a lot of illume/e Jul 10 15:22:24 doin a few more modules Jul 10 15:22:38 probably integrate in FSO when it is stable Jul 10 15:22:42 and use the dbus api's Jul 10 15:23:09 i am personally not comfy with FSO's ui as it currently stands Jul 10 15:23:14 but thats all a prsonal thing Jul 10 15:23:15 :) Jul 10 15:23:44 That's where illume/e comes in, yeah? ;) Jul 10 15:24:02 well its alreayd used for ASU Jul 10 15:24:12 i just will strip out the stuff i dont like Jul 10 15:24:14 and put in the stuff i do Jul 10 15:24:15 *nods* :) Jul 10 15:24:25 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 10 15:25:16 Chocky: mine is #1326, got shipping confirmation last night, gonna add that to the page Jul 10 15:25:23 very good Jul 10 15:25:39 1345 here - no confirmation ;-( Jul 10 15:25:47 my condolences Jul 10 15:27:14 bet they shipped 1344 :p Jul 10 15:28:11 hey raster would it be possible to make the interface more modular Jul 10 15:28:23 btw, hi Chocky :P Jul 10 15:28:32 or dynamic I guess I should say Jul 10 15:30:06 mushroom cloud Jul 10 15:30:43 orchard Jul 10 15:32:47 can anybody confirm the gps problems? Jul 10 15:32:59 can anyone tell how looks like the shipping confirmation mail from UPS? What does it says, who's the sender, etc. Jul 10 15:33:15 dtx: you will need to be a lot more specific Jul 10 15:33:16 Is mokomakefile still the preferred way to get into hacking on the whole source tree? Jul 10 15:33:39 mmaestri1: it's a standard QuantumView notification direct from UPS Jul 10 15:33:42 Can the removed parts not be compiled as loadable modules? Jul 10 15:33:45 dtx, I've had Squeak smalltalk running on gta01 Jul 10 15:34:20 mmaestri1: Subject: UPS Ship Notification, Tracking Number .... Jul 10 15:35:44 PBeck: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1542 and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020961.html Jul 10 15:35:49 dtx: they are intrinsic parts of an existing module Jul 10 15:35:53 tey are things the moduel already does Jul 10 15:35:58 even if u could download a module Jul 10 15:36:06 the gui to select a module to enable is disabled Jul 10 15:36:11 ... Jul 10 15:36:26 with enough coding u can write a module Jul 10 15:36:32 finally to "break into" the existing code Jul 10 15:36:40 and go and start adding thingsback Jul 10 15:36:45 its not an insignificant amount of work Jul 10 15:36:50 thx nuclear_eclipse Jul 10 15:36:53 the code wasint intended or designed to do this Jul 10 15:36:57 it was desined to have options Jul 10 15:36:58 thanks abraxa_ Jul 10 15:37:03 and u - the user get to choose them Jul 10 15:37:17 i have disabled many of them on request Jul 10 15:37:19 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r7148a0158dde 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/mediator.py: Jul 10 15:37:19 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] add support for org.freesmartphone.GSM.HoldActive(), i.e. Jul 10 15:37:19 freesmartphone.org: holding a call without activating any waiting or other held call. See fso ticket #15 Jul 10 15:38:57 was this a support issue or something Jul 10 15:39:11 I just don't see why they would pull a move like removing features Jul 10 15:39:29 when faced with things like Windows Mobile and Android Jul 10 15:39:38 which are highly customizable Jul 10 15:39:55 because features confuse users Jul 10 15:39:58 and its open sourc Jul 10 15:40:02 eyou can write your own gui if u want! Jul 10 15:41:08 <_ferric> tonyg: depends on what you want to build, 2007.02 is unmaintained, ASU is unstable and FSO is pretty much useless. Jul 10 15:41:15 haha, not complaining about the GUI, btw, just the decision to remove features. Features confuse users who see them. So why wouldn't they just make you create an advanced tab or something. Jul 10 15:41:21 _ferric, thanks Jul 10 15:41:21 <_ferric> but mokomakefile builds them all Jul 10 15:41:25 Or make you edit a hidden file to enable the options Jul 10 15:41:42 I am interested in building a new kernel for GTA01, and a minimal userland. It doesn't have to have anything but a running X server Jul 10 15:42:07 <_ferric> tonyg: take a look at mokokmakefile and FSO then Jul 10 15:42:22 What's "FSO"? Jul 10 15:42:27 (I'll look at the wiki) Jul 10 15:42:31 <_ferric> freesmartphone.org Jul 10 15:42:34 ~FSO Jul 10 15:42:34 <_ferric> k Jul 10 15:42:35 from memory, fso is the freesmartphone.org software release. It includes the backbone software for the phone hardware (and some other things) and a working dialer, and not much else. Jul 10 15:43:16 _ferric: useless??? Jul 10 15:43:18 heh Jul 10 15:43:32 <_ferric> mickey|openezx: ;-) Jul 10 15:43:37 userless, maybe ;) Jul 10 15:43:42 ok, that's probably enough for me. Jul 10 15:43:55 <_ferric> mickey|openezx: not saying that FSO isn't the FUTURE, but it only has a working dialer... :) Jul 10 15:44:23 sure thing, from a pure users perspective this is right Jul 10 15:44:34 but from a developers perspective it's quite different Jul 10 15:44:43 <_ferric> mickey|openezx: yep, looks like it does have a ton of stuff in the iamge tho, like a working wm etc. Jul 10 15:44:53 mickey|openezx: It's not userless Jul 10 15:44:58 <_ferric> mickey|openezx: agreed, which is why I think tonyg should go make FSO ;) Jul 10 15:45:08 I have used it exclusively for the last ~ week Jul 10 15:45:30 wow, that's cool. I promise there'll be lots of things we can do UI-wise Jul 10 15:45:35 but you know... first thing is the cellar Jul 10 15:45:38 then the rooms ;) Jul 10 15:47:17 mickey|openezx: Hallelujah Jul 10 15:47:50 mickey|openezx: You mean souterrain not cellar, right? SCNR Jul 10 15:48:13 hahaha Jul 10 15:48:17 ~shoot stefan_schmidt Jul 10 15:48:18 * apt shoots stefan_schmidt in the eye with a cork gun! Jul 10 15:48:22 :D Jul 10 15:48:32 :D Jul 10 15:48:33 ouch Jul 10 15:48:46 XorA: No problem, I'm bulletproof Jul 10 15:49:04 You need to be that if you are bad to people the whole day. :) Jul 10 15:49:30 hehe Jul 10 15:49:52 remaining day is openezx work Jul 10 15:49:58 mickey|openezx: good Jul 10 15:50:03 did I say that now that I've seen EZX, I fell in love with the TI Calypso again? :D Jul 10 15:50:10 mickey|openezx: yo. what are your plans with the fso ui? Jul 10 15:50:23 so far as best i see its 1 big fullscreen window of 1 app/process Jul 10 15:50:24 thats it Jul 10 15:50:24 ? Jul 10 15:50:33 mickey|openezx: rmk today applied 6 of our 9 posted patches. Means with .27-rc1 you should have EZX options in your kernel. :) Jul 10 15:50:56 raster: All you need for a dialer right now. Jul 10 15:51:01 yo raster, btw Jul 10 15:51:08 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r6cad74081e67 10/ (setup.py src/illume.pyx src/illume_kbd.c): add support for the illume keyboard Jul 10 15:51:08 raster: to make it fluid, to make it rock. it's nowhere as I want it, but it was the best thing I could take (from josch, btw., i didn't write it) to demo the framework Jul 10 15:51:09 stefan_schmidt: yo Jul 10 15:51:28 raster: lets talk about doing some kick ass thing once the framework is more or less done Jul 10 15:51:35 mickey|openezx: ok ok. Jul 10 15:51:48 mickey|openezx: after i get done wit asu i'm damn well going to make my own om images Jul 10 15:51:54 and make a setup of e that doesnt suck Jul 10 15:51:54 yep Jul 10 15:52:00 righto. lets work togehter on that Jul 10 15:52:00 that has config options Jul 10 15:52:03 Good to hear Jul 10 15:52:07 and what not Jul 10 15:52:20 stefan_schmidt: (6 of 9) amazing! Jul 10 15:52:22 and i dont much care about keeping the qtopia apps Jul 10 15:52:24 congrats Jul 10 15:52:28 so... it's FSO for me Jul 10 15:52:56 mickey|openezx: Still _a lot_ to do. But a first step. Jul 10 15:53:00 but i'll need to work on the whole "desktop env" first before tackling phone stuff Jul 10 15:53:08 so FSO can continue on its own for a bit Jul 10 15:53:29 just was wondering how much effort u are going to invest in the existing fso ui Jul 10 15:53:54 moo Jul 10 15:54:00 There's an UI on FSO ? Wow :-) Jul 10 15:54:10 yes Jul 10 15:54:11 <_ferric> not yet, Ainulindale Jul 10 15:54:20 its a cute little python fulsccreen app Jul 10 15:54:21 fnar. ship my FR already :-( Jul 10 15:54:26 _ferric: I know, I was trying to be sarcastic :-) Jul 10 15:54:30 <_ferric> haha Jul 10 15:54:32 <_ferric> ok sorry Jul 10 15:54:39 <_ferric> i'm only on my frist cup of coffee Jul 10 15:54:42 <_ferric> er, first Jul 10 15:54:44 _ferric: it actualy does have a ui Jul 10 15:54:45 me too. Jul 10 15:54:46 Just to ask like every new moko user what 2007.2 GTK Image do you recommend thats newer than the 20080424 image? Jul 10 15:54:50 <_ferric> what up Chocky Jul 10 15:55:04 still on my frist cup too ;-) Jul 10 15:55:10 <_ferric> HauDyr: you could use FSO, depends on what you want Jul 10 15:55:30 <_ferric> Chocky: best to stay quiet then Jul 10 15:55:43 yes, wouldn't want to look even more foolish Jul 10 15:55:49 <_ferric> no, not anymore. Jul 10 15:55:59 i think i want 2007.2 on my internal memory and FSO on the SD Jul 10 15:56:45 <_ferric> not sure if you can still successfully build 2007.2 but its worth a shot Jul 10 15:57:13 maybe we should work on improving a single image instead of worrying about which one to use ;-) Jul 10 15:57:28 <_ferric> Chocky: oi. welcome to open source development. Jul 10 15:57:31 Chocky: But Open Source is about choice! :D Jul 10 15:57:34 I know, I know Jul 10 15:57:39 <_ferric> yes Jul 10 15:57:41 * Chocky did OE stuff some years ago Jul 10 15:57:54 still do various embeddded Jul 10 15:57:56 er, -d Jul 10 15:57:57 * _ferric watches as a dinosaur jumps out of Chocky's computer and mauls him to death Jul 10 15:58:01 sweet Jul 10 15:58:05 _ferric, i was talking about the pre buidl images Jul 10 15:58:05 <_ferric> Chocky: pick an image and start hacking. Jul 10 15:58:28 well, I _did_ do the ARM OpenOffice.org 1.1 port years ago Jul 10 15:58:35 that would almost run on FR Jul 10 15:58:42 screen is a bit small though Jul 10 15:58:48 <_ferric> HauDyr: ah. yes, you could certainly try and run one of those - I don't know if it would run on the FR but it should Jul 10 15:58:54 <_ferric> Chocky: oh - very cool! Jul 10 15:59:16 anyway, no hacking until I have a phone. Jul 10 15:59:30 Actually if I'm going to bother building the whole thing I guess I'd like to know about how the GTA01 stands with regard to battery life and suspend/resume these days Jul 10 15:59:35 <_ferric> and more coffee? Jul 10 15:59:38 yes Jul 10 15:59:42 besides, I'm at work Jul 10 15:59:43 <_ferric> tonyg: baaaaad. Jul 10 15:59:47 still?? Jul 10 15:59:48 bummer Jul 10 15:59:54 <_ferric> tonyg: much better than before, though :-) Jul 10 16:00:10 before, I was getting 4.5 to 5 hours on a full charge, no suspending Jul 10 16:00:18 <_ferric> i can suspend/resume sorta on my 01 with FSO and make and receive calls Jul 10 16:00:22 charge of coffee? Jul 10 16:00:27 if suspend works, I can probably get that up to a day's worth, right? Jul 10 16:00:34 what does "sorta" mean? Jul 10 16:00:38 userlang problems, or kernel problems? Jul 10 16:00:41 has anyone tried the 2007.02 image build today on their FR? Jul 10 16:00:51 power-drain-while-suspended problems? non-wake-up problems? lost-gsm-bytes problems? Jul 10 16:00:54 <_ferric> tonyg: with the stock images from milestone1, it suspends, resumes, but then suspends immediately Jul 10 16:01:02 <_ferric> tonyg: look at... hold on I have a URL Jul 10 16:01:08 thanks _ferric Jul 10 16:01:50 ebbe hvilket image bruger du ? Jul 10 16:02:47 mmoo Jul 10 16:04:21 <_ferric> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_UI_Tutorial Jul 10 16:04:24 <_ferric> god that took forever Jul 10 16:04:27 :) Jul 10 16:04:29 thanks _ferric Jul 10 16:04:38 don't forget: Jul 10 16:04:43 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 10 16:04:47 <_ferric> lol Jul 10 16:04:50 <_ferric> forget that. Jul 10 16:04:52 * tonyg . o O ( man I'm pleased I haven't seen mokomakefile do anything using mtn yet... git is a big improvement ) Jul 10 16:10:15 did anyone else order on the 3rd and not receive a shipping number yet? Jul 10 16:10:23 yes Jul 10 16:10:30 what is your order number? Jul 10 16:10:51 1669 Jul 10 16:10:59 I will add that to the page Jul 10 16:11:22 FSO can do suspend ? Jul 10 16:11:24 and resume normally ? Jul 10 16:11:42 Not really Jul 10 16:11:55 Closer than other unmodified images, though. Jul 10 16:12:02 I see Jul 10 16:12:10 can any image in the meantime do so ? Jul 10 16:12:10 1326 is the last order number on the list with a shipping confirmation Jul 10 16:12:21 so, is building FSO (from scratch) a slower or faster process thank 2007.2? Jul 10 16:12:22 *than Jul 10 16:12:54 CVirus: I have one that works ok on the GTA01 (GTA02 mostly works, but someone checked in a patch that broke it yesterday) Jul 10 16:13:10 relet: (whoever you are) Thanks for helping clean up and add to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 10 16:13:56 mwester: how many hours can it last ? Jul 10 16:15:27 :( Not sure... the GTA01 doesn't wake from suspend when the battery is low, so it quietly powers off -- since I wasn't watching, all I know is that it's >18 hours. The GTA02 left the wifi running, so it was pretty much flat after about 13 hours. Jul 10 16:16:37 mwester, I've been following the GTA01 suspend/resume/gsm work you've been doing on the om-kernel list. Very much appreciated. Jul 10 16:16:47 :) Thanks. Jul 10 16:17:10 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r81c0fbf4b997 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.plugin input.vala): * input: add watchfor plugin key. Removes some hardcoding Jul 10 16:17:16 We'll get there, we're closer than ever before. Jul 10 16:17:43 mwester: so you're in charge of the debug branch now? Jul 10 16:18:03 :D I don't think so. Jul 10 16:18:06 mwester, I've just started my build (make fso-image) - is there magic I should have done to ensure I get a GTA01-configured kernel? Jul 10 16:18:12 no? darn, you should be . Jul 10 16:18:54 Andy's a good guy, as long it's reasonable, I think we'll get what needs to be on the debug branch. Jul 10 16:19:21 tonyg: edit local.conf, IIRC Jul 10 16:19:26 thanks Jul 10 16:19:38 mwester: ok, sounds good. I think the debug branch may be the proper branch for future fso milestones. Jul 10 16:19:42 MACHINE = "om-gta01" ? Jul 10 16:19:46 until we get this 100% solid Jul 10 16:20:04 * mwester goes back to writing instructions on the 2007.2 suspend/resume fixes... Jul 10 16:20:41 mickey|openezx: That's my goal, frankly -- to miinimize what might end up in OE instead of where it belongs. Jul 10 16:22:32 gah Jul 10 16:22:35 sooooooo sloooooooooooooooooooooooooow Jul 10 16:22:39 Dave Jul 10 16:22:49 what was your order number? Jul 10 16:22:53 :p Jul 10 16:23:05 root@om-gta02:~# uptime 16:22:27 up 2 days, 11:02, 1 user, load average: 2.95, 2.77, 2.67 Jul 10 16:23:13 I don't have an order number. Jul 10 16:23:17 indeed Jul 10 16:23:18 kdean06: Think you can add some of your findings to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions ? Jul 10 16:23:38 oh sweet, I finally got back to the home screen Jul 10 16:23:41 it only too four minutes! Jul 10 16:23:43 G'day all Jul 10 16:23:56 mwester: *nod* Jul 10 16:24:58 abraxa_: is kdean06 here? Jul 10 16:25:14 Question: can the available stacks read phone book data from the SIM card? Jul 10 16:25:18 Xaos: Yeah, he joined 4 minutes ago. Hence why I jumped him :) Jul 10 16:25:24 Xaos, Yes. :) Jul 10 16:25:31 abraxa_, Sure. Jul 10 16:25:40 kdean06: Awesome, thanks Jul 10 16:25:49 thanks kdean06! Jul 10 16:26:16 I've been leaving up the window and working on other crap in the meantime and missed it Jul 10 16:27:12 One feature I'm really going to miss when I give up my RAZR (to my wife) is the voice-independent dialing Jul 10 16:27:26 Question... Should I put all the info in this one place, or create a duplicate site... Sometimes the answers are different depending on the device you're using. For instance... I've not seen the ASU or the GTK 2007.02 stack run on ANYTHING but an Openmoko Neo device, but the FSO image runs on other things... And some things work on Freerunner that don't work on 1973. :S Jul 10 16:29:52 kdean06: I would like to keep this to the Neo's, but others might want the other hardware in here...whatever works best. Jul 10 16:30:05 Okay, I kid of assumed that. :P Jul 10 16:30:07 kind* Jul 10 16:30:15 But when the Neo devices differ? Jul 10 16:30:34 Meh. Nevermind. :P Jul 10 16:30:36 kdean06: wonder if we can flag the info somehow Jul 10 16:30:41 I'll assume the user knows. :P Jul 10 16:31:15 Xaos, Well, for instance the GTK image for 1973 actually has buttons for "turn on Wifi". Jul 10 16:31:25 Which I think is dumb. :P Jul 10 16:31:27 Anyway... Jul 10 16:31:34 Yeah, I'll answer these. :P Jul 10 16:32:02 Xaos, For "URL" did you intend that to be a reference to images, or like the project websites or the SVN or... ? Jul 10 16:35:13 kdean06: just somewhere to go get more info...it should probably be better defined Jul 10 16:35:20 I just threw stuff up Jul 10 16:35:35 :0 Jul 10 16:35:39 I'll be creative then. Jul 10 16:35:46 feel free! Jul 10 16:35:56 * abraxa_ watches out for Xaos throwing up all over the wiki Jul 10 16:36:05 I have no ego involved here...just wanting to get info out there Jul 10 16:36:15 abraxa_: ewwwwww Jul 10 16:36:32 Could not resist ;) Jul 10 16:37:09 LOL Jul 10 16:37:48 my (and my collegues) fr (unflashed) cat /dev/ttySAC1 only spits out a "$GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48" every second. no fix, no nothing Jul 10 16:37:53 :( Jul 10 16:39:22 also: are there any gps stickantennas? 2m + dongle sounds awful to carry around Jul 10 16:39:47 Fossi: btw, you asked yesterday: "dbus-launch gconftool-2 -R /" lists all settings you can alter using gconf Jul 10 16:44:52 * wurp2|truly_away copies that off to his little private wiki... Jul 10 16:45:03 sekret! Jul 10 16:46:00 abraxa_: thanks. figured that out. rtfm helps ;) Jul 10 16:46:11 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r1f17214065a3 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/input.plugin: input: plugin keyfile in sync with frameworkd Jul 10 16:50:47 Okay, I have a serious question and this isn't about the Wiki page itself... What is PIM? Jul 10 16:50:53 I know it's Personal Information Management... Jul 10 16:51:00 But what specifically must it do to be PIM? Jul 10 16:51:36 I mean, the wiki says that the GTK 2007.02 stack doesn't have it, but I would have answered "Yes" to that question... SO what makes it PIM rather than just... data storage? Jul 10 16:52:03 Should we maybe break that up to Contacts, Calendar, ToDo, etc.? Jul 10 16:53:01 well, at least my 2007 series aplication manager has a category named 'pim' ;D Jul 10 16:53:16 Well, irrespective, I'd still like to know the answer. :P I mean, is it literally just "Apps that roughtly emoulate Microsoft Outlook's capabilities" or must it doe something more, like expose the data there to other applications or... Jul 10 16:54:55 Some info has been added. :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 10 16:54:58 Maybe a simple yes/no is not adequate. I would be interested in knowing if the functionality is there and stable Jul 10 16:55:00 kdean06: If you have an address book, can handle messages and a calendar, you have basic PIM - anything else is bonus, imo Jul 10 16:55:08 Okay. Jul 10 16:55:26 Then I'd say that the GTK stack DOES have basic PIM, I'll change that. :) Jul 10 16:56:12 ok...maybe even qualify as to things being "very basic" or "super advanced functionality with telepathic controls" ;-) Jul 10 16:56:20 He he Jul 10 16:56:38 You realize I've never even touched one of these devices yet...mine should show up on Tuesday Jul 10 16:57:14 Xaos, I don't think any image is supposed to have telepathic control... I hear the human-brain interface isn't slated to be added to Linux till 2.6.28. :) Jul 10 16:57:29 that soon?! :D Jul 10 16:57:36 kdean06: There's support already in 2.6.20 Jul 10 16:57:38 kdean06: ahhh...no wonder I was getting segfaults when attempting that Jul 10 16:57:39 And very few applications read for input from /dev/brain Jul 10 16:57:55 what's worse... some write there :-P Jul 10 16:57:58 cat /dev/null > /dev/brain Jul 10 16:59:02 cat /dev/random > /dev/brain Jul 10 16:59:16 NOP Jul 10 16:59:24 cat /dev/brain > /dev/random Jul 10 16:59:33 really good source of random shit Jul 10 16:59:45 Fossi: that's nothing special...that happens anyway Jul 10 17:00:13 or rather ln -s /dev/brain /dev/random Jul 10 17:00:20 yes, but you need an OSS brain for it work properly. the documentation for other versions is closed Jul 10 17:00:36 i have tried flashing my FR to the most recent build the only thin not working is scroll :-) Jul 10 17:00:42 reverse-engineer the firmware Jul 10 17:00:56 yes, but that's not slated for completion until 2030 Jul 10 17:01:36 Chocky: I got the manual for the closed-source /dev/brain from the vendor Jul 10 17:01:40 hm. Jul 10 17:01:40 what kdean06: i don't get that list anyway. is meant by: Connectivity GPS: no Jul 10 17:02:12 bet you had to sign an NDA Jul 10 17:02:14 somebody else put in the headings...I guess connectivity should be "Wireless"? Jul 10 17:02:22 LOL Jul 10 17:02:22 I assumed that means "GPS Applications". By default, the 1973 doesn't do any GPS because of the non-free driver. Jul 10 17:02:23 that sounds like the 2007 kernel doesn't support gps Jul 10 17:02:30 ah, ok Jul 10 17:02:39 But hte freerunner, in theory, can, but there's no software installed. Jul 10 17:02:54 TangoGPS on the Freerunner should work just fine (in that mythical land of Theory). Jul 10 17:03:01 ok, so what uses the wifi then? Jul 10 17:03:12 Fossi: ssh Jul 10 17:03:17 In the ASU, Campwifi or whatever. Jul 10 17:03:20 Maybe we can change the "no" to "Yes, through third-party software" Jul 10 17:03:36 Go for it. :) Jul 10 17:03:42 ok... Jul 10 17:04:01 can someone on the mailing list post my wiki page? Jul 10 17:04:16 esp. in reply to the 10-pack 2267 guy Jul 10 17:04:21 does TangoGPS work on all the stacks? Jul 10 17:04:43 well, not SHR ;) Jul 10 17:04:50 I'm not sure about the FSO but I assume yes. Jul 10 17:05:40 I mean... TO a certain extent it's like asking "Does linux do thing X". Jul 10 17:06:12 true... Jul 10 17:06:20 Well... Yes, depending on the distro. :P All of the images run on X11 and I assume all of them work using the same kernel, which would in theory expose all hardware fuctions to them all. :) Jul 10 17:06:37 Like... IF you installed TangoGPS on the FSO image, I think it would work. Jul 10 17:06:44 which is why we probably need to differentiate on things that work out of the box from those that work, but need another app installed Jul 10 17:06:46 But that's true of ALL of the images. :) Jul 10 17:07:14 Yeah, there's so many caveats that my brain struggles to answer. I've always hated surveys for just that reason... I'm way too technical. :P Jul 10 17:07:35 but it is possible for one of the distros to NOT have say bluetooth drivers working (or being flaky) Jul 10 17:08:04 in other words, what works with a bare bones flash of the image... Jul 10 17:08:33 can you USE the GPS...answer is yes, but you have to have an app that does it. Jul 10 17:08:41 cat Jul 10 17:08:43 Right. :) Jul 10 17:08:46 for SMS, the answer may be no even IF you have the app installed Jul 10 17:08:56 (bad example...but you get the point) Jul 10 17:09:02 I tend to answer ONLY based on what works from the user interface on a fresh flash. Jul 10 17:09:11 exactly Jul 10 17:09:26 which is why we have the footnotes Jul 10 17:09:33 WHich is why I say none of them have GPRS, though it CAN be hacked on the GTK images and liberal use of the terminal. :) Jul 10 17:10:28 maybe footnotes to that effect would be useful too Jul 10 17:10:41 I'll add that one in Jul 10 17:11:02 how do you do cool superscript in the wiki? Jul 10 17:11:23 <`pwgen`> mickeyl|openezx: http://pastebin.com/m34a4986f sleep resume cycle wacht sebstaendig auf ohne anruf Jul 10 17:11:57 hmm Jul 10 17:12:02 i'd need the syslog, not the kernel log Jul 10 17:12:03 logread Jul 10 17:12:42 Chocky: it's been posted Jul 10 17:12:48 by me ;-) Jul 10 17:12:51 doh Jul 10 17:12:53 * Chocky subscribed Jul 10 17:13:05 I just sent one because I didn't see any :P Jul 10 17:13:09 heh, no matter Jul 10 17:13:18 spam the links! Jul 10 17:13:21 someone else was suggesting one, and I wanted to avoid a second list Jul 10 17:14:23 kdean06: thanks for helping to fill out that chart...much better now. Jul 10 17:15:02 <`pwgen`> mickeyl|openezx: http://pastebin.com/m25220330 Jul 10 17:15:44 What I'm getting out of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions is that for the "average" user, OM2007.2 which comes on the phone is probably what they want to keep if they want the phone to "just work" Jul 10 17:16:01 FSO appears to be the future, but the apps need to be ported. Jul 10 17:16:19 ASU is too early to tell and SHR is probably where we will all end up at. ;-) Jul 10 17:16:25 <_ferric> except that 2007.2 cannot make/receive calls! Jul 10 17:16:30 haha Jul 10 17:16:32 ok...lunchtime...brb Jul 10 17:16:34 so !just work Jul 10 17:16:46 i guess shr won't make it Jul 10 17:16:48 _ferric: huh...how joking are you? Jul 10 17:16:57 it's just seems like too much work Jul 10 17:17:07 <_ferric> Xaos: not at all. Jul 10 17:17:15 <_ferric> Fossi: don't ever lose hope. Jul 10 17:17:52 well, the only good thing is that only shr really is community driven Jul 10 17:18:27 fso and asu feel more like "wait until it's ready" to me Jul 10 17:18:27 <_ferric> shrug. stabilizing software takes time. Jul 10 17:18:46 i'd rather package stuff up and get involved now Jul 10 17:19:08 <_ferric> Fossi: what's stopping you? Jul 10 17:19:34 well, at the moment i still need a couple f hours to toy around with the fr ;) Jul 10 17:19:36 `pwgen`: ya, that's most likely the extended status stuff i talked about. should be fixed in HEAD Jul 10 17:19:57 <_ferric> Fossi: oi. excuses Jul 10 17:20:07 so there's not much left to actually work on anything. when that's done (and my vacations come next week), i will :) Jul 10 17:20:08 and so it grows: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 10 17:20:09 <`pwgen`> HEAD of what ? kernel frameworkd ? Jul 10 17:20:18 *time Jul 10 17:20:48 <_ferric> Fossi: good idea Jul 10 17:20:56 `pwgen`: frameworkd Jul 10 17:21:05 <_ferric> Fossi: well, my point was that it just takes a lot of people over a long time Jul 10 17:21:29 <`pwgen`> ahh thx ... ill wil build it .. updateing .... Jul 10 17:21:47 _ferric: yeah Jul 10 17:21:58 but organisation is a big part of that Jul 10 17:22:18 <_ferric> Fossi: you know about #openmoko-cdevel yeah? :) Jul 10 17:22:22 and atm i don't feel like openmoko inc and the community is connected much Jul 10 17:22:24 <_ferric> it's only in the topic Jul 10 17:22:25 yeah Jul 10 17:22:41 been there yesterday, but now i have to work some more ;) Jul 10 17:23:09 <_ferric> cool. Jul 10 17:25:51 Chocky, yeah no freerunner here yet either :( Jul 10 17:26:19 aw. what number? Jul 10 17:26:24 2318 Jul 10 17:26:37 add it ;-) Jul 10 17:26:46 only thing I got, is that they tookk my money Jul 10 17:26:50 heh Jul 10 17:26:50 yeh Jul 10 17:26:55 I will at it real quick Jul 10 17:27:03 just a single yes? Jul 10 17:27:13 yes, single Jul 10 17:27:21 done Jul 10 17:27:43 Order date (07/05/2008) Jul 10 17:27:43 heh. 1326 has shipped, but 1328 hasn't Jul 10 17:27:55 didn't bother to record order dates Jul 10 17:28:31 I wonder.. if it were sold in stores Jul 10 17:28:34 would anyone line up for it? Jul 10 17:28:47 not hyped enough Jul 10 17:28:55 I don't think there would be a lineup Jul 10 17:28:57 and not going to be sold in millions Jul 10 17:29:09 iPhone, Windows 9x, PS3, etc, etc Jul 10 17:29:11 people would show up but they wouldn't have to line :] Jul 10 17:29:34 I actually wonder how many people will miss work to go get an iphone Jul 10 17:29:46 or don't have a job so they can ;-) Jul 10 17:29:51 even here in Canada where they'll rip you off hard Jul 10 17:30:07 get them to buy it using scare tactics like, You can't control your standard commerical phone and prevent the phone company monitoring you Jul 10 17:30:15 heh Jul 10 17:30:21 remotely turn on mic Jul 10 17:30:25 remotely turn on camera Jul 10 17:30:39 Scare them into the openmoko!! :) Jul 10 17:31:44 Is there a qtopia-x11 toolchain or something like that available somewhere? the qtopia-phone source isnt too helpful Jul 10 17:32:14 carrar: pfft, you don't need any of that. Just: "Look, and here's me installing something without apple's approval!" Jul 10 17:32:40 hahah Jul 10 17:32:53 I actually wanted to walk past a queue for the iphone doing that. "So, yeah, it allows me to install any apllication I want without jailbreaking or paying jobs" Jul 10 17:33:09 while talking to someone else :) Jul 10 17:33:23 just don't tell them the software isn't complete ;-) Jul 10 17:33:35 minor detail :) Jul 10 17:33:43 you can't persuade apple fanboys :p Jul 10 17:33:44 doc|home: what was your order number? Jul 10 17:33:50 Chocky: 3032 Jul 10 17:33:54 * Chocky adds Jul 10 17:33:59 Chocky: already added :P Jul 10 17:34:02 fnar Jul 10 17:34:22 you missed the bulk column entry Jul 10 17:34:32 oh wait Jul 10 17:34:34 When the open moko comes in brushed aluminum then the apple people will buy it Jul 10 17:34:34 no you :p Jul 10 17:34:48 bad Chocky Jul 10 17:37:08 anyone any idea how much has to be done to make the freerunner usuable for every day usage? will it take weeks,months a year? Jul 10 17:37:26 month or two with luck. but who knows. Jul 10 17:37:35 these things take time Jul 10 17:37:46 ofcourse Jul 10 17:38:19 are we not hoping it'll speed up really quickly? :p Jul 10 17:38:26 with all the new developers on board Jul 10 17:38:26 one hopes Jul 10 17:39:18 i just came over that trolltech (qtopia.net) has released a "flash image" for freerunner.. tho there's a little "problem". rootfs is just the rootfs compressed, not a jffs2 flash image. how do i make a jffs2 image out of this? is it a tool out there, or do i need to use mkfs.jffs2? Jul 10 17:41:52 and so the list grows Jul 10 17:42:17 yep.. just added mine Jul 10 17:42:26 I've added myself to the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F list Jul 10 17:42:31 good, good Jul 10 17:42:36 order no #2442 Jul 10 17:43:10 I have a feeling I should have kept my order in the 1400s with the slow shipping, rather than cancel and re-order in the 1700s with faster shipping Jul 10 17:43:12 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * rf68893b23aee 10/multicat/multicat: add multicat, a tool to open a bunch of serial terminals and dump their output Jul 10 17:43:14 http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars/1 Jul 10 17:43:19 heh Jul 10 17:44:05 anyway, it looks like I just missed out on shipping yesterday Jul 10 17:44:11 * Chocky blames Chase Jul 10 17:44:25 eeedora: Sounds like its supposed to be installed to the SD card. Jul 10 17:46:38 roger that, but it is stil possible to fash it to nand if you make it as a jffs2 first. rite? Jul 10 17:47:05 kelvie_work: "are we not hoping it'll speed up really quickly? :p / with all the new developers on board".... read "The Mythical Man-Month" Jul 10 17:48:32 sitwon: interesting... Jul 10 17:50:35 i' gayyyy Jul 10 17:50:40 i'm really a gay Jul 10 17:50:49 sorry it's my co-woker Jul 10 17:50:52 you're really someone on CVirus's computer Jul 10 17:51:14 "Not that there's anything wrong with that". Jul 10 17:51:24 yawn Jul 10 17:51:28 but where's my FR? Jul 10 17:51:35 I dunno man, knob -> ass, something about that is very unattractive :) Jul 10 17:51:42 * doc|work jokes - doesn't care Jul 10 17:52:00 doc|home: please no quotes from Team America Jul 10 17:52:24 hmmm? Jul 10 17:52:27 * Chocky slaps BX auto nick completion Jul 10 17:52:29 don't worry ;-) Jul 10 17:52:36 ah Jul 10 17:54:09 Chocky: people still use BX? Jul 10 17:59:49 yes Jul 10 17:59:58 it's convinient Jul 10 18:00:17 unobtrusive Jul 10 18:02:19 Chocky: tried irssi? Jul 10 18:02:23 ugh Jul 10 18:02:26 no thanks Jul 10 18:02:27 Anyone knows when the shop will be refilled with the 900 band model? Jul 10 18:02:42 week or two Jul 10 18:02:55 faern: s/refilled/filled/ ;) Jul 10 18:03:10 they haven't actually gotten any 900's into the shop yet :P Jul 10 18:03:35 ooh. I thought they were sold out :P Jul 10 18:04:03 faern: it says that, but it's wrong, they just didn't get any in yet Jul 10 18:04:45 well...they ARE sold out...they originally had ZERO and they sold them all Jul 10 18:04:47 ;-) Jul 10 18:04:53 lol Jul 10 18:05:00 a Jul 10 18:05:28 Xaos: funny man Jul 10 18:05:50 <_ferric> how hard is it to fix that shop to say, not available yet? Jul 10 18:05:51 Who says I'm a man? Jul 10 18:05:58 <_ferric> i wonder if it is a publicity stunt. :/ Jul 10 18:06:01 Remember...on the Internet...nobody knows you're a Dog Jul 10 18:06:25 nuclear_eclipse: (I am, but you shouldn't take it for granted) Jul 10 18:06:59 I hope they have the Webshop re-open gifts until the 900 is in stock. I want the laser stylus :P Jul 10 18:07:52 u didnt order the 2 exter batteries ,sac,stylus too? Jul 10 18:08:57 that would be nice Jul 10 18:09:26 does two extra batteries imply that the battery time is aweful? :P Jul 10 18:10:37 will the FR maintain power if plugged into the USB while swapping batteries? or is that "not recommended"? Jul 10 18:11:10 Also, I thought the FR came with a 1700mAh battery...the pics on the Spares Pack shows a 1200mAh battery stamped as GTA01 Jul 10 18:11:59 Xaos: no, that changed Jul 10 18:12:18 changed to 1700? Jul 10 18:12:22 doc|work: what changed? Jul 10 18:12:34 Xaos: the battery, from 1700 back down to 1200 Jul 10 18:12:40 oh...bummer Jul 10 18:12:40 fnar, someone after me has a shipping confirmation Jul 10 18:12:53 Chocky: ouch Jul 10 18:13:18 why change back to 1200? :/ battery life is the most important part imho Jul 10 18:13:24 so, it might be a good idea to get the two spares then...eh? I guess I'll have to use my FR as a charger too or is there a compatible battery charger somewhere? Jul 10 18:13:50 faern: not sure Jul 10 18:14:33 xaid|work: observe the writing on it Jul 10 18:14:42 Xaos: it says that it's for GTA01 Jul 10 18:15:04 Xaos: I suspect it's a error. Jul 10 18:15:47 are the batteries functionally compatible between the GTA01 and GTA02? Jul 10 18:17:00 No. Jul 10 18:17:05 ahh Jul 10 18:17:06 As I understand it. Jul 10 18:17:15 GTA02 has a smart battery. Jul 10 18:17:26 I thought I had seen that somewhere Jul 10 18:17:30 hi all Jul 10 18:17:55 Look! It's an Anagram! Jul 10 18:18:08 :P Jul 10 18:18:17 all ym usual nicks are already taken Jul 10 18:18:57 does anyone happen to have a clue on how to get grps working in ASU? Jul 10 18:20:31 DocCod...If you like Anagrams, have you seen this Weird Al Video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg Jul 10 18:20:38 Every line is an anagram.... Jul 10 18:21:08 Xaos: haven't seen it, thanks :P Jul 10 18:21:20 I was watching it with my wife and about half-way through, it hit me what they were...she said she was severely disturbed that I picked that up Jul 10 18:21:30 lol Jul 10 18:21:32 Xaos: that's not an anagram :P Jul 10 18:21:38 it's a palindrome ;) Jul 10 18:21:56 damn...you're right...brain fart! Jul 10 18:22:06 stinks :P Jul 10 18:22:12 palindrome...not to be confused with a paladin (for you WoW players) Jul 10 18:22:17 yep Jul 10 18:22:21 so, noone using gprs? Jul 10 18:22:25 s/anagram/palindrome/ Jul 10 18:22:43 DocCod: I don't even have my FR yet, so...no, sorry Jul 10 18:23:14 I should have mine by this time tomorrow =D Jul 10 18:23:38 Xaos: i feel like a pioneer :P Jul 10 18:24:12 trying to get the FR up and running (more or less) for a few days now Jul 10 18:24:36 so far i got gps running Jul 10 18:24:43 please help by documenting anything you find... Jul 10 18:24:54 what/how dod you get gps running? TangoGPS? Jul 10 18:25:08 are you running 2007.02 (the default OS install)? Jul 10 18:25:15 s/dod/did/ Jul 10 18:25:17 no, i'm running asu Jul 10 18:25:20 2007.2/tangogps should be easy Jul 10 18:25:21 daily build Jul 10 18:25:35 DocCod: have you tried FSO at all? Jul 10 18:25:47 my problem in asu was that there is no interface at all to switch the GPS on from the UI Jul 10 18:25:56 DocCod: cool...go to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions and let me know what you've got working Jul 10 18:25:56 so i had to code one in pyGTK :P Jul 10 18:26:15 also the GPS is very slow to get afix Jul 10 18:26:21 put the python script up where we can get it too Jul 10 18:26:22 Deubeuliou: In the beginning was the word. Jul 10 18:26:25 oops Jul 10 18:26:39 so i had to try some agps stuff Jul 10 18:26:40 I'll have mine on Tuesday and will want to rock-n-roll with it as soon as the battery is charged Jul 10 18:26:54 upload almanac to the gps, etc. from assistnow online Jul 10 18:27:04 hence why i want gprs working Jul 10 18:27:19 DocCod: can you do that through WiFi? Or does it need to happen all the time? Jul 10 18:27:20 so i can use gps while on the run Jul 10 18:27:25 gprs would be nice to have Jul 10 18:27:34 the data is valid for like 4 hours only Jul 10 18:27:50 so if you don't have wifi nearby, the gps might prove quite unusable Jul 10 18:27:58 s/have/have working/ Jul 10 18:27:58 nuclear_eclipse meant: gprs would be nice to have working Jul 10 18:28:00 I'm not that interested in GPRS because I don't have a data plan (can't justify the personal cost at the moment) Jul 10 18:28:09 without assitnow, it can take like 20, 30 minutes to get a fix Jul 10 18:28:18 ouch Jul 10 18:28:35 doc|home: indoors? Jul 10 18:28:37 where i live, you get a 3G+ flatrate without data limit for 18 euro a month Jul 10 18:28:39 docc Jul 10 18:28:46 SpeedEvil: no, outdoors :P Jul 10 18:28:56 doc|home: germany? Jul 10 18:29:00 there are several discussions going on Jul 10 18:29:07 SpeedEvil: ? Jul 10 18:29:08 about GPS antenna being quite weak Jul 10 18:29:14 no, Luxembourg Jul 10 18:29:21 DocCod: :( Jul 10 18:29:26 doc|home: sorry Jul 10 18:29:32 :) Jul 10 18:29:36 the godo thing being that it also includes flatrate gprs :P Jul 10 18:29:47 DocCod: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems Jul 10 18:29:54 well, when you have 4 kids, you look for everything you can cut from the budget...so...no GPRS for me Jul 10 18:30:36 SpeedEvil: thanks, i will add my data once i have a full implementation of assistnow working Jul 10 18:30:54 I would have a question conserning building GTK application with Glade, I have read on the wiki that Glade support should be added in OpenMoko but I thought GTK on OM was the same library than on the desktop. I try to build an app done using Glade and it is not building (cannot find gtk_builder_new())) Jul 10 18:30:58 so far i only feed my guessed location and the time to the gps, which improves the fix time to < 5 min Jul 10 18:31:31 once i get grps and full almanac data working, the fix should be pretty quick Jul 10 18:31:34 So how come Glade apps are not building on OM? Jul 10 18:31:57 nuclear_eclipse: yes, i tried FSO Jul 10 18:32:16 nuclear_eclipse: it seems solid, but you can't really do anything with it (besides calling and receiving calls) Jul 10 18:32:30 DocCod: that's exactly what I wanted to hear :) Jul 10 18:32:50 what about sending/receiving sms? Jul 10 18:32:54 And if Glade is not working, is there any other Gui building that can be used ? Jul 10 18:33:00 I'm planning to flash that to my FR, and then set up a dual boot on the SD card for other stacks Jul 10 18:33:03 emilis_info: not yet implemented in FSO Jul 10 18:33:32 DocCod, and FSO is the thing I'll receive via UPS tomorrow? Jul 10 18:33:35 :) Jul 10 18:33:45 nope Jul 10 18:33:50 ok Jul 10 18:33:52 jmichel: i have been using succesfully pyGTK so far Jul 10 18:33:54 you'll get OM2007.2 Jul 10 18:33:58 ok Jul 10 18:34:03 emilis_info: no, you'll have a slimmed down version of OM 2007.2 Jul 10 18:34:13 ok Jul 10 18:34:26 emilis_info: calling and sms should be ok with that one Jul 10 18:34:28 is OM 2007.02 stable enough to call+sms? Jul 10 18:34:31 ooooh ok Jul 10 18:34:37 emilis_info: but you'll run out of battery like every 5 hours Jul 10 18:34:41 that would be better than my current phone Jul 10 18:34:44 hmmm Jul 10 18:34:45 yep Jul 10 18:34:49 shit Jul 10 18:34:52 that's worse Jul 10 18:34:53 :D Jul 10 18:34:56 fso is like 20 hours Jul 10 18:35:09 i'm doing some testing to improve that as well :P Jul 10 18:35:26 can I test FSO on VirtualBox or something? Jul 10 18:35:28 by switching of some of the chipsets when not in use Jul 10 18:35:28 DocCod: is that 20 hours evenwith the screen/gps/wifi turned off? Jul 10 18:35:49 how's the battery life on the ASU? Jul 10 18:35:51 nuclear_eclipse: no, it includes suspending, no gps, no wifi, etc. Jul 10 18:36:03 DocCod: I guess pyGTK generates GTK code instead of an XML file that must be loaded by a Glade library? Jul 10 18:36:11 kelvie_work: pretty low so far Jul 10 18:36:27 jmichel: it generates python code actually Jul 10 18:37:28 DocCod: ok but I have a complete C application to which I only what to add the GUI... Jul 10 18:37:40 so Puthon is not what I'm looking for Jul 10 18:37:44 Python Jul 10 18:37:46 jmichel: ah, ok, so that might prove more difficult Jul 10 18:38:16 But why is there a difference between GTK on OM and GTK a my normal Linux desktop ? Jul 10 18:38:34 jmichel: have you verified that glade is properly installed? Jul 10 18:38:48 much faster id hope Jul 10 18:38:57 because the root images do not contain all of the available packages Jul 10 18:39:07 lighter Jul 10 18:39:19 what do you do when your eth device is using 192.168.0.x and the usb device is also on 192.168.0.200? Jul 10 18:39:30 Hello. Jul 10 18:40:17 DocCod: Installed where, I'm building my Glade application with bitbake in the OM build environment (generated with mokomakefile) Jul 10 18:40:21 how can i then contact the moko? Jul 10 18:40:32 Ask it politely? :) Jul 10 18:40:40 please Jul 10 18:40:42 DocCod: 20 hours!! :/ I thought they had reached a week or so :( Jul 10 18:41:33 Dave, with sugar on top Jul 10 18:42:01 jmichel: ah, sorry, i haven't tried the OM build env yet Jul 10 18:42:24 faern: yep, but still already ~4 times better than OM and FSO Jul 10 18:43:15 what linux distro do u people develope on? Jul 10 18:43:28 desktop wise Jul 10 18:43:30 i conevniently use ubuntu :P Jul 10 18:43:58 linuxxr: I'm using Opensuse Jul 10 18:44:04 DocCod: but it has the potential to run for a week I have heard. When will someone be smart and implement that powersaving? :D Jul 10 18:44:05 i was a gentoo user (and developer) before Jul 10 18:44:08 arklinux :) ...but i'm not a dev yet ;) Jul 10 18:44:32 faern: let's hope so. I think the kernel developers are working hard on improving the pm performance Jul 10 18:45:32 noone happens to know where asu tells qtopia which device to use for gsm modem? Jul 10 18:45:48 i like opensuse to but im a slacker an certainly not a dev Jul 10 18:46:04 if i could find that out, i could redirect this to the multiplexer and get (hopefully) gprs working Jul 10 18:47:21 DocCod: Might wanna ask ljp Jul 10 18:48:24 abraxa_: thanks Jul 10 18:49:42 Does anyone know what the "other" things are taking up power, preventing FSO from suspending for a week and still having enough battery to resume? Jul 10 18:50:14 wurp2|work: i think the gsm modem is the main energy sucker Jul 10 18:50:18 HauDyr: You use better subnet masks Jul 10 18:50:23 moose Jul 10 18:50:29 wurp2|work: as it wakes up too often Jul 10 18:50:53 wurp2|work: besides that i think wifi and display should take their share as well Jul 10 18:50:56 rivalarrival, i asked and i can also use route Jul 10 18:51:27 DocCod: wifi and display take power while it's suspended? Jul 10 18:51:35 Doctor Cod! Jul 10 18:51:41 what's poppin' wurp? Jul 10 18:52:01 * Dave waves to Chocky Jul 10 18:52:06 DocCod: I am running FSO, and I've seen it maybe twice woken up when I expected it would be suspended, I wrote that off to me not remembering properly Jul 10 18:52:10 rivalarrival, the problem is that people sitting behind a router often uses 192.168.0.x as their ip Jul 10 18:52:16 Dave: Aren't you the social butterfly :-) Jul 10 18:52:17 what is the latest usable image for neo1973? Jul 10 18:52:26 hm Jul 10 18:52:30 :) Jul 10 18:52:44 :o Jul 10 18:52:45 HauDyr: some routers (like mine) use 192.168.1.x Jul 10 18:52:47 DocCod: I didn't realize it was waking at all... I thought gsm went into deep sleep and sent a signal to wake the device only if it got a call Jul 10 18:52:51 DocCod: Qytopia gets it set in the QTOPIA_PHONE_DEVICE environmental variable Jul 10 18:53:01 nordmenn! Jul 10 18:53:39 HauDyr: Yeah, I know. I discovered that with several projects, and it almost invariably causes a problem somewhere... That's why I switched to 192.168.10.x Jul 10 18:56:17 the 192.168. range is maby too common maby the 172.16.0.0 range would give fewer problems? (its only a feature request :-) Jul 10 18:57:02 Or, and here's a thought: How about the ability to change it? Jul 10 18:57:06 lpotter: thanks Jul 10 18:57:07 hah Jul 10 18:57:10 no wai! Jul 10 18:57:13 rivalarrival: too sensible Jul 10 18:57:17 lol Jul 10 18:57:29 wurp2|work: i haven't investigated in detail yet, but it's what i read at various places Jul 10 18:57:38 rivalarrival: What in the world are you on, that would mean a *gasp* new option! ;) Jul 10 18:57:47 option explosion Jul 10 18:58:22 i think that, possibly, it would be a good idea to kick the project managers really, really hard for that decision Jul 10 18:58:23 Just out of curiosity, why can't it be changed easily? Jul 10 19:00:18 whoa. the list is long now Jul 10 19:02:30 Chocky: still no confirmation for you? Jul 10 19:02:41 nope Jul 10 19:02:45 * Chocky sobs. Jul 10 19:02:45 anyone here ordered from Koolu in Canada? Jul 10 19:02:46 number? Jul 10 19:02:46 that's odd Jul 10 19:02:53 1345 Jul 10 19:03:12 and 1368 says he/she got confirmation already.... Jul 10 19:03:18 * Chocky nose. Jul 10 19:03:43 what the hell. Jul 10 19:03:50 lpotter: do you happen to also know where in asu this env variable is set? Jul 10 19:04:02 mine was a bulk order. perhaps that matters Jul 10 19:04:06 perhaps Jul 10 19:04:06 or perhaps it got lost in the ether Jul 10 19:09:06 Chocky: have you checked your spam filter? Jul 10 19:09:24 yes Jul 10 19:09:26 there you go i fixed it for you http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 10 19:09:32 Hallo leinir :) Jul 10 19:09:40 * Chocky will check his exim too :p Jul 10 19:09:43 So what are you people all going on about at the moment? Jul 10 19:09:48 you Jul 10 19:10:08 * leinir curtsies to Dave "Well met" :) Jul 10 19:10:12 * nuclear_eclipse wants tomorrow to arrive soon Jul 10 19:11:04 i'm just fiddling the freerunner a bit, currently looking through the package list :) Jul 10 19:12:18 :D Jul 10 19:12:25 Looking for cool packages and whatnot? ;) Jul 10 19:12:33 *giggles* Yeah :) Jul 10 19:12:43 Yeah I think I'm finally going to create a handful of pseudo packages today or tomorrow :) Jul 10 19:12:49 Since people around here are requesting it. Jul 10 19:13:10 Plus others may not find trolling the repos as joyful as I do :p Jul 10 19:13:22 * nuclear_eclipse wants Debian itself on moko :P Jul 10 19:13:25 send out some fake UPS messages :p Jul 10 19:13:31 Debian could run on moko. Jul 10 19:13:45 requires a bit of chop-chop work, but I've done very similar before Jul 10 19:13:47 Chocky: just not with any of the devices or phone software :P Jul 10 19:13:50 Sure it can. Jul 10 19:13:57 I'm pretty sure it's been done already. Jul 10 19:14:00 well, not out of the box I mean Jul 10 19:14:03 at least with the prior model. Jul 10 19:14:03 that's ok, just add the right bits. maybe turn ipks into debs Jul 10 19:14:16 oh, eww Jul 10 19:14:25 * Chocky put Debian on the Psion NetBook Pro. In the end we went with OE - bit smaller Jul 10 19:14:49 although it'd be full X - bit heavy Jul 10 19:15:09 true Jul 10 19:15:18 <- Debian hack master. Jul 10 19:16:11 oh yeah? Jul 10 19:16:19 yeah. Jul 10 19:16:27 yeah? Jul 10 19:16:31 yeah. Jul 10 19:16:35 sweet Jul 10 19:16:35 OHHHHHHHHHHH YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!! Jul 10 19:16:39 :D Jul 10 19:16:39 hell yeah. Jul 10 19:16:46 sweet *ass* sweet! Jul 10 19:16:52 calm down now :p Jul 10 19:16:52 dude. Jul 10 19:16:57 nothing in exim logs from UPS Jul 10 19:17:00 where's my moko? Jul 10 19:17:19 mm, apparetly no-one here liked A Night At The Roxbury... :9 Jul 10 19:17:26 s/:9/:(/ Jul 10 19:17:26 nuclear_eclipse meant: mm, apparetly no-one here liked A Night At The Roxbury... :( Jul 10 19:17:44 apt so foolish Jul 10 19:18:11 <`pwgen`> Chocky: are the binaries compatible from debian arm ? Jul 10 19:18:25 you'd want eabi, but yes Jul 10 19:18:38 more or less. you'd have to worry about libc6 too Jul 10 19:19:14 evening :) Jul 10 19:19:17 anyone here a Schemer? Jul 10 19:19:22 a wut? Jul 10 19:19:48 if I had time/wasn't lazy, I would be :P Jul 10 19:19:59 Scheme programmer ;) Jul 10 19:20:14 no, thanks. yuk. Jul 10 19:20:20 too many parentheses? Jul 10 19:20:24 That's lisp Jul 10 19:20:46 Scheme has ()'s too.... Jul 10 19:20:50 blah Jul 10 19:21:09 Ecraven! Jul 10 19:21:19 blah. another person after me with shipping confirm Jul 10 19:21:19 IT'S YOU! Jul 10 19:21:35 and two earlier without Jul 10 19:21:46 hey Dave :) Jul 10 19:22:22 how does the touchscreen work? exactly like a mouse? Jul 10 19:22:33 or can it detect multiple fingers, and palm etc.? Jul 10 19:22:55 no multitouch Jul 10 19:23:04 right now, just like a mouse. Jul 10 19:23:21 Possible in the future would be to get a pressure reading from it as well. Jul 10 19:23:26 mwester: right now due to missing software, or right now as in "later revisions will have different hardware" Jul 10 19:23:33 Software Jul 10 19:23:47 essentially Jul 10 19:23:56 like a mouse Jul 10 19:24:00 oh multitouch incapability is only due to software restrictions? Jul 10 19:24:12 OM has a patch that enable pressure from the touchpad, but it breaks X because X doesn't know what to do with it on the neo. Jul 10 19:24:17 it sucks since it cannot be disabled and has no proximity sensor though :( Jul 10 19:24:19 multitouch is hardware. Jul 10 19:24:20 poor X Jul 10 19:24:26 Mwester, hah! Jul 10 19:24:43 That's Mister X, to you! Jul 10 19:24:57 Mystery X Jul 10 19:25:00 kelvie_work: FR does not have multitouch hardware, so software will never be able to have it either Jul 10 19:25:03 Oh yeah, and Ecraven, the script is broken :[ Jul 10 19:25:26 I'm thinking of packaging it, nonetheless :p Jul 10 19:25:59 Dave: i think i'll develop future scripts on FSO Jul 10 19:26:06 seems much cleaner :) Jul 10 19:26:21 ah Jul 10 19:27:15 just to nag why is nano not included in 2007.2 i dont like vi Jul 10 19:27:28 Ah, hrm, well alright Jul 10 19:27:29 opkg install nano ;) Jul 10 19:27:31 HauDyr: just to spite you :P Jul 10 19:27:36 ecraven though I don't see why it would differ much Jul 10 19:27:39 is there a package for emacs yet? :p Jul 10 19:27:46 EWWW Jul 10 19:27:50 * Dave beats kelvie Jul 10 19:27:53 nuclear_eclipse: is it capable of detecting multi-finger taps (eg, Synaptic touchpads on laptops) Jul 10 19:27:56 nuclear_eclipse, i thought it was something like that Jul 10 19:28:01 ... Jul 10 19:28:06 I might as well argue why vim hasn't been ported yet :D Jul 10 19:28:14 editor war! Jul 10 19:28:16 vi's in the posix standard so it's included for sure Jul 10 19:28:17 Dave: because you don't need to access any device, due to the framework? Jul 10 19:28:17 nah Jul 10 19:28:31 joe! (because someone always has to bring in joe) Jul 10 19:28:33 oh, emacs would be nice! Jul 10 19:28:33 sitwon: it *may* be possible, but it's not a "real" feature; eg, it's just a matter of "how smart" the software/driver is trying to be Jul 10 19:28:43 ecraven, they have one for it? :O Jul 10 19:28:50 <`pwgen`> emacs is working on the moko Jul 10 19:29:00 vim plz. Jul 10 19:29:00 fantastic Jul 10 19:29:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcuBE0SLQgk&feature=related heh Jul 10 19:29:06 most of the reason I want a moko is to run emacs Jul 10 19:29:07 yes, but when OpenOffice.org Jul 10 19:29:09 Dave: +1 for vim, I miss it everytime I pull up vi on a Solaris box... :( Jul 10 19:29:09 ecraven, emacs =large program, nano = small program Jul 10 19:29:16 yeah :| Jul 10 19:29:24 stupid crusty sun systems :D Jul 10 19:29:42 <`pwgen`> emacs is in OE an compiles fine .. and working Jul 10 19:29:45 who was it yesterday arguing that kde should be put on the moko? :P Jul 10 19:29:48 haha Jul 10 19:29:49 Dave: most of the framework doesn't work yet, but it's getting there.. slowly :) Jul 10 19:29:51 that was me Jul 10 19:29:53 not me Jul 10 19:29:57 and work is being done on that Jul 10 19:30:00 nuclear_eclipse: on such a small device, having Synaptic-like drivers would be nearly as good as true multitouch Jul 10 19:30:01 Yeah, I noticed that much, ecraven ;) Jul 10 19:30:02 <`pwgen`> icewm is working Jul 10 19:30:20 <_ferric> Dave: how's your babies doing Jul 10 19:30:20 Dave: but it looks promising Jul 10 19:30:26 Great! Jul 10 19:30:32 Dave, then it would have to be KDE4 with all the bells and whistles Jul 10 19:30:33 ecraven, true, perhaps in another month or so :) Jul 10 19:30:34 sitwon: the problem is how do you determine what is a fingertip on purpose and what is a palm getting too close, etc Jul 10 19:30:37 kdelibs already works I believe Jul 10 19:30:46 HauDyr: fuck that shit, to put it succinctly. Jul 10 19:31:02 sitwon: because the only thing you "know" from the touchpad is a single averaged X/Y coordinate Jul 10 19:31:08 * HauDyr just adds 500mb to the image Jul 10 19:31:10 Dave: good enough for me :) Jul 10 19:31:15 heh, some crazy openmoko stuff on YouTube Jul 10 19:31:26 i'd rather build on a solid foundation in a month, than worry about neod :) Jul 10 19:32:02 heh, true true Jul 10 19:32:08 did you see what I did yesterday? :P Jul 10 19:32:10 or this morning rather? Jul 10 19:32:15 ecraven, i second that a solid foundation is Very important Jul 10 19:32:15 thing leaks like a mofo Jul 10 19:32:22 mofomoko Jul 10 19:32:30 mokofo Jul 10 19:32:38 mofoko Jul 10 19:32:43 mofomokomojo Jul 10 19:32:48 HauDyr: any alternatives to FSO there? Jul 10 19:32:53 * Dave rolls his eyes Jul 10 19:33:01 nuclear_eclipse: do Synaptic touchpads on laptops give more information then? Jul 10 19:33:09 sitwon: most likely Jul 10 19:33:12 That you'd accept as a substitute? Unlikely. Jul 10 19:33:21 :P Jul 10 19:33:31 Ecraven, help me fix this broken script, will ya? :P Jul 10 19:33:39 Dave: what's the problem? Jul 10 19:33:44 * Dave bribes ecraven with chocolate-chip cookies. Jul 10 19:33:47 ecraven, mofomokomojo is closed source and under a tight NDA :-) Jul 10 19:34:00 majormofomokomojo Jul 10 19:34:07 sitwon: there's quite a difference in possibilities between a touchpad and a touchscreen, just because of the limitations of circumstances, eg, a touchscreen has to be completely transparent Jul 10 19:34:20 majormofomokomojo thats the free version Jul 10 19:34:32 Ecraven, well, every time I've run it, it just runs... hangs there, and it's not until I send it SIGINT that it actually launches (it also reports some error in the terminal before continuing) Jul 10 19:34:45 that's because it can't read from the accelerometers Jul 10 19:34:47 due to neod Jul 10 19:34:50 I figured Jul 10 19:34:51 :( Jul 10 19:34:56 or suspected, rather Jul 10 19:35:02 fucking neod Jul 10 19:35:20 the solution is to get a fixed neod, i asked marcus about his, but no answer so far Jul 10 19:35:28 really? Jul 10 19:35:32 you just agentd to keep neod on its toes and in check Jul 10 19:35:46 s/just/just need/ Jul 10 19:35:46 nuclear_eclipse meant: you just need agentd to keep neod on its toes and in check Jul 10 19:35:48 and then you need bigbrotherd to watch agentd Jul 10 19:35:54 hi Jul 10 19:36:26 Hotel India Jul 10 19:36:41 "such a lovely place" Jul 10 19:38:59 I'm working on an agentsmithd to keep neod in line Jul 10 19:39:20 * Xaos ducks at bad Matrix reference Jul 10 19:39:21 hehe Jul 10 19:39:43 Xaos: that's what I was getting at earliel :P Jul 10 19:39:45 neo is the one Jul 10 19:39:54 I just flashed my qemu with the FSO milestone 1 image and it is SLOW!!!! Jul 10 19:39:54 wow - only 9 of the 850MHz units left in stock at the OM store (using SpeedEvil's method) Jul 10 19:40:04 * Chocky writes daemond - one daemon to rule then all Jul 10 19:40:06 the 2007.02 wasn't bad Jul 10 19:40:13 sucky.bah Jul 10 19:40:17 and in the darkness bind them Jul 10 19:40:18 Some help you are, Xaos :p Jul 10 19:40:30 mmontour: how do you figure? Jul 10 19:40:32 Dave: what? Jul 10 19:41:11 Chocky: try adding 1000 of them to your shopping card - it will show you a smaller number. See http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif Jul 10 19:41:18 heh Jul 10 19:41:42 where'd those last 200 go? Jul 10 19:41:45 so hack Jul 10 19:42:08 o.O Jul 10 19:42:31 haha Jul 10 19:42:42 that makes no sense Jul 10 19:42:56 yeah, it's a bit guessy. still. Jul 10 19:43:56 I still have yet to correctly discern how to have 4 or more devices maintain proper connectivity and communication over a single usb hub Jul 10 19:46:06 block = f.read(16) Jul 10 19:46:28 mmontour: I think they must have changed it. it's still to order > 9 units individually Jul 10 19:46:36 s/still/silly/ Jul 10 19:46:36 Chocky meant: mmontour: I think they must have changed it. it's silly to order > 9 units individually Jul 10 19:47:04 hrm, why is the accelerometer no longer working for me, ecraven? :D Jul 10 19:47:33 hm, although I can only add 1 10 pack Jul 10 19:47:54 Dave: it is, neod is interfering :( try to kill your neod (this will also kill your x server), then you can read fine from /dev/input/event[23] Jul 10 19:48:11 pfft, I know -_-; Jul 10 19:48:18 So perhaps it's episodic? Jul 10 19:48:28 because SOMETIMES it can read fine from it Jul 10 19:48:36 others, it needs to catch SIGINT first Jul 10 19:48:41 others, not at all >:( Jul 10 19:49:02 hehe, very interesting boot logo :D Jul 10 19:49:06 boots :) Jul 10 19:49:18 (haven't flashed in a while) Jul 10 19:49:48 Yes, the quintessential "boot" screen. Jul 10 19:49:56 oh man, i'm totally going to have a rotating boot logo Jul 10 19:50:01 It's terrible, I vote everyone use a custom splash image. Jul 10 19:50:08 randomly selected on power down Jul 10 19:50:16 personally, I'm not sure I want to see Linux boot spam when my phone starts. Jul 10 19:50:25 I have to look at that crap all day with my own embedded development Jul 10 19:50:32 :D Jul 10 19:50:44 I'd like having the ability to mask it Jul 10 19:51:03 console=ttySO Jul 10 19:51:17 has anyone tried cairo on the neo? how fast is it? Jul 10 19:51:26 dunno, try Firefox 3 :o Jul 10 19:51:27 e.g. default behavior is to show only a graphical boot representation, and AUX [on boot] will trigger console output Jul 10 19:51:37 Does that sound more reasonable, Chocky? :) Jul 10 19:51:52 without knowing about AUX, I suppose ;-) Jul 10 19:51:57 :P Jul 10 19:52:04 well, there is that... Jul 10 19:52:06 heh Jul 10 19:52:22 * Dave blames everything on neod Jul 10 19:54:23 one million package updates... Jul 10 19:54:26 Dave: well...he IS the ONE (to blame that is) Jul 10 19:54:38 ecraven, does using the libcairo libs count? ;) Jul 10 19:54:48 Xaos, indeedily. Jul 10 19:55:12 Dave: yes, on the fr? Jul 10 19:55:12 rofl, someone broke libglib-2.0-dev in main repo Jul 10 19:55:17 hahaha Jul 10 19:55:22 that must have taken a real effort Jul 10 19:55:30 Ecraven, I am currently using libcairo2 on it Jul 10 19:55:36 couple apps use it Jul 10 19:55:39 Firefox 3 is cariotastic Jul 10 19:55:42 it seems to run fine Jul 10 19:55:48 cool :) Jul 10 19:55:54 Chocky, congratulations. Jul 10 19:56:05 ecraven, yeah, no major explosions to note :) Jul 10 19:56:08 don't say that until I make it run on FR :p Jul 10 19:56:17 fuck that x 1000000 Jul 10 19:56:27 Firefox 3 is your pwnie Jul 10 19:56:33 * abraxa_ wonders whatever happened to the "community member of the month"... Jul 10 19:56:34 fuck mozdev Jul 10 19:56:38 heh Jul 10 19:56:57 * Chocky ported Firefox to a non-Linux ARM platform. PITA. Jul 10 19:57:00 I have the right to say that, too :) Jul 10 19:57:00 webkit >>> firefox Jul 10 19:57:10 Dave: I'm sure, but what's your reason? Jul 10 19:57:10 * Dave installs leopard on doc Jul 10 19:57:35 Chocky, guess what I used to do... until we had a falling out? :) Jul 10 19:57:35 Dave: pfft, epiphany can use a webkit engine, and konqueror already does Jul 10 19:57:40 Yeah. Jul 10 19:57:48 konqueeror. Jul 10 19:57:53 well, I could guess, but I doubt I'd get it exactly Jul 10 19:57:57 epiphany's actually movingt to wekbit Jul 10 19:58:03 ooh la la Jul 10 19:58:07 good shit Jul 10 19:58:18 * Chocky interivew at Google for Moz dev. didn't work out. Jul 10 19:58:28 hlagh Jul 10 19:58:35 ^ not a word Jul 10 19:59:09 doc|work: Konqueror still uses khtml - it can be made to use the webkit engine, but it's not default :) Jul 10 19:59:13 Dave: what is libcairo2? i only know of 1.6.4 Jul 10 19:59:27 haha am I bad? I'm using one of my freerunners as a local package repository Jul 10 19:59:32 leinir: they're much the same, aren't they? Jul 10 19:59:33 sweet Jul 10 20:00:02 has anyone gotten netbsd running on their freerunner? :) Jul 10 20:00:06 I'm writing a political article advocating freerunner over iPhone, which we'll be publishing at fsf.org shortly -- anyone want to read and comment before it's published? Jul 10 20:00:16 shortly as in, today :) Jul 10 20:00:22 No, I prefer to use an OS that's in development :p Jul 10 20:00:23 Package: libcairo2 - Version: 1.6.4-r1 - Description: Cairo graphics library Jul 10 20:00:25 johnsu01: sure :) Jul 10 20:00:30 Does that clear it up for you, Ecraven? ;) Jul 10 20:00:31 doc|work: They're much more similar than any of the other engines out there, but they *are* different :) Jul 10 20:00:31 johncylee: aye Jul 10 20:00:33 er, Jul 10 20:00:37 johnsu01: aye Jul 10 20:00:40 Dave: yes, thanks ;) Jul 10 20:00:41 As the comparison of the ACID3 test shows ;) Jul 10 20:00:44 leinir: *nod* Jul 10 20:00:50 I think I'm going to write an irc integration script for the freerunner :) Jul 10 20:01:00 Dave: bitchx package? Jul 10 20:01:00 pfft, acid3 is a silly test. "Here, have some broken code, now make it look good" Jul 10 20:01:08 doc|work, Chocky: Want to msg me your addresses and I'll email you the draft now? Jul 10 20:01:11 or cc a bastardized version of irssi Jul 10 20:01:19 >:) Jul 10 20:01:30 johnsu01: hmmm, actually, I'm not going to get to read it until tonight. thanks anyway :/ Jul 10 20:01:56 * Dave whines at Speedevil Jul 10 20:02:39 Ecraven, this is pissing me off enough to investigate the neod issue further. :| Jul 10 20:02:42 Hmm... konversation on 640x480 Jul 10 20:03:02 doc|work: Sure it's a silly test - but it shows that the two are different :) Jul 10 20:03:03 Dave: imho there shouldn't even be a neod, the FSO approach with lots of different demons seems very nice Jul 10 20:03:03 but first, packages! Jul 10 20:03:12 Agreed. Jul 10 20:03:39 So long as they aren't leakier than a crusty old pair of pampers. Jul 10 20:18:06 hi all Jul 10 20:18:15 hi Jul 10 20:18:21 just a stupid question I didn't find any answer to Jul 10 20:18:38 /nick Chocky|somerandomthingI Jul 10 20:18:43 how is the audio channel connected to the modem chipset ? Jul 10 20:18:47 /nick Chocky|somerandomthingI'mconnectingfromordoingorsomesuch Jul 10 20:19:02 bwahahaha Jul 10 20:19:34 is it a direct connection or does the audio stream go through the UART ? Jul 10 20:20:00 That *is* a good question! :) Jul 10 20:20:03 ar0x: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_audio_subsystem (that's for GTA01; Freerunner has the same connection to the GSM but has other differences) Jul 10 20:20:59 ok, thanks, so that's a direct connection :) Jul 10 20:21:26 so there is no possible control from the AP to the microphone Jul 10 20:22:59 ie, the modem can do whatever it wants with it, even "spying" (ie. capturing from microphone and sending to the telco compagny) Jul 10 20:23:07 right ? Jul 10 20:23:44 ar0x: i'd like to know that too Jul 10 20:23:54 heh Jul 10 20:23:59 Theoretically, yes. Jul 10 20:24:00 from my pov Jul 10 20:24:02 call up the NSA :) Jul 10 20:24:15 he *works* for the NSA Jul 10 20:24:20 the modem software is non-free Jul 10 20:24:21 alternative joke: Jul 10 20:24:24 hah! Jul 10 20:24:31 * mwester makes a note to open up a "tin foil hat" store for openmoko users. Jul 10 20:24:33 and not even accessible, so everything is possible Jul 10 20:24:36 The microphone signal goes through the WM8753, which is controlled by Linux. The GSM subsystem can't get direct access to the microphone. Jul 10 20:24:36 in soviet russia, the NSA calls *you*! Jul 10 20:24:39 :) Jul 10 20:24:48 that's far worse Jul 10 20:25:08 Fossi: not the soviet or the NSA, just police services upon judge approval Jul 10 20:25:08 * Dave gives Fossi a quarter and tells him to take a break. Jul 10 20:25:20 Wolfson might be on the NSA's payroll -- so you can't trust that chip either. Jul 10 20:25:27 yeah, give the man a break... Jul 10 20:25:32 it's getting late :\ Jul 10 20:25:36 time to go home Jul 10 20:25:45 * Chocky sobs more at shipping stuff Jul 10 20:26:38 mmontour: how does linux setup the WM8753 ? Jul 10 20:27:40 ar0x: i bet they make sure that you can be spyed upon. don't worry... Jul 10 20:27:46 ar0x: What exactly do you mean by "how"? Jul 10 20:27:47 ar0x: ALSA mixer controls (a huge number of them) - run "alsamixer -V all" to edit, or use "alsactl" to save/restore state files Jul 10 20:28:57 Funny how the shipping options were "really fast, super faster, faster that super fast, and mega fast" (with pricing to match) but what they neglect to tell you is that they sit on your phone for two weeks before they actually send it out the door.... Jul 10 20:29:44 i guess that was a hidden special option Jul 10 20:29:44 abraxa_: just wants to know if it (linux) tells the wm8753 to just directly link the microphone to the gsm chip and if it's possible to "cut the path" Jul 10 20:29:56 which in fact seems possible Jul 10 20:30:51 ar0x: yes, you can cut the path or re-route it to something else (e.g. to play PCM audio from Linux into the GSM codec) Jul 10 20:31:10 ar0x: Yeah it is. You might want to have a look at /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios Jul 10 20:31:46 don't have any sources or running system at all Jul 10 20:31:52 oh ok Jul 10 20:33:10 and to be honnest, I hesitate between having a customisable and hackable phone but being unable to use it to call anyone or make 3G call (no 3G chip)... Jul 10 20:33:14 whee, how many freerunners can I multiplex across this single hub :D Jul 10 20:34:39 or buying a closed phone for half the price, and having a fully working phone which just works and being also able to hack it Jul 10 20:35:15 ar0x: If 3G is a must-have feature, go for it - you know best what you need Jul 10 20:35:21 ar0x, true, true. Jul 10 20:35:29 :] Jul 10 20:35:32 to be honnest, I don't really care Jul 10 20:35:40 tbh, WiFi was far more important to me Jul 10 20:35:41 I'd say you do. Jul 10 20:35:42 just want's to have something usable Jul 10 20:35:47 wants Jul 10 20:35:53 yep Jul 10 20:35:59 * Dave wants icecream Jul 10 20:36:05 and a pwnie? Jul 10 20:36:06 Anyone else? :) Jul 10 20:36:15 * Chocky wants his FreeRunner Jul 10 20:36:22 anyway, 'night all Jul 10 20:36:32 I have too many Jul 10 20:36:37 send me 3 Jul 10 20:36:52 I think I need to get the lab downstairs to fashion me a custom sled for them Jul 10 20:36:56 ar0x: well I plan to develop using openmoko/freerunner, so, hacking a "commercial" phone isn't an option Jul 10 20:37:00 or mounting rack Jul 10 20:37:02 :| Jul 10 20:37:07 it's becoming increasingly cumbersome Jul 10 20:37:15 poli, too late. Jul 10 20:37:38 Dave: happens :) Jul 10 20:37:42 yep :) Jul 10 20:37:47 Anyone getting "NOTE: Task failed: Checksum of 'ftp://ftp.rpm.org/pub/rpm/dist/rpm-4.1.x/popt-1.7.tar.gz' failed Jul 10 20:37:57 Dave: how about a Batman-style utility belt? Jul 10 20:38:11 no, because I wouldn't be cause dead using RPM Jul 10 20:38:34 er, caught Jul 10 20:39:10 That' s standard MokoMakefile doing a make openmoko-devel-image Jul 10 20:39:14 sucks. Jul 10 20:39:34 hmm Jul 10 20:39:36 anyone with order # > 1363 got confirmation yet? Jul 10 20:39:37 mmontour ;) Jul 10 20:39:38 * unknown_lamer stabs the openmoko toolchain Jul 10 20:39:44 It's funny you mentioned that... Jul 10 20:39:47 hello emdebian and apt-cross please make this work Jul 10 20:39:48 unknown_lamer: agreed. Jul 10 20:39:53 wolfmanjm: see the list Jul 10 20:40:13 I did I have 10 people on my *** asking when they will get it ;) Jul 10 20:40:32 * Chocky is 1345, right near you Jul 10 20:40:43 nope I'm in the 1600's Jul 10 20:40:53 seems they may be clearing 300 a day maybe? Jul 10 20:41:09 hopefully now I can build clisp without resorting to evil hacks (native utils used during build try to link against ARM libs, hell breaks loose shortly thereafter...) Jul 10 20:41:11 Just trying to get a handle on the number they are shipping per day Jul 10 20:41:27 wolfmanjm: did you add to the list? Jul 10 20:41:41 1669? Jul 10 20:41:44 not yet, will do in a bit Jul 10 20:41:46 I have 1390 and have gotten a tracking number Jul 10 20:42:03 tomboy64: I will add to the list Jul 10 20:42:06 gah Jul 10 20:42:08 tomja Jul 10 20:42:12 when did you get it? Jul 10 20:42:15 huh? Jul 10 20:42:18 lol Jul 10 20:42:25 tomboy64: naught bitchx Jul 10 20:42:37 * tomboy64 bitches as Chocky's bitchx :-D Jul 10 20:42:41 *at Jul 10 20:42:41 sweet Jul 10 20:42:50 * SpeedEvil looks at tomboy64 Jul 10 20:42:55 tomjoad440: when did you get confirm? Jul 10 20:43:15 * tomboy64 waves at SpeedEvil Jul 10 20:43:30 Chocky: I got the UPS Tracking number yesterday Jul 10 20:43:51 Does apt keep track of the maximum number of people in here? Jul 10 20:43:56 have added you Jul 10 20:44:04 381 is pretty good :) Jul 10 20:44:07 so where the hell is mine? Jul 10 20:45:34 Chocky: what list are you talking about? Jul 10 20:46:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 10 20:46:25 Chocky: were you looking for me? Jul 10 20:46:27 heh Jul 10 20:46:45 sitwom: it's possible. but if I did, I have no idea why. Jul 10 20:46:52 1669 Jul 10 20:47:00 I see Jul 10 20:47:29 nm, I scrolled up and realized you were talking to someone else Jul 10 20:47:40 * Chocky just full of it today Jul 10 20:48:12 Hi all, I am totaly new to the Openmoko Freerunner. Jul 10 20:48:19 virgin! Jul 10 20:48:23 RXShorty: welcome, then Jul 10 20:48:32 And if I may can I ask some questions? Thanks both ;) Jul 10 20:48:34 you'll need some patience and enthusiasm, I figure Jul 10 20:48:35 Anyone got the phone number of the shipping dept? Steve emailed me to call them to arrange pickup, but didn;t give me a # to call :) Jul 10 20:49:14 I got my Freerunner a few days ago from pulster. But I must say the software on it pretty buggy Jul 10 20:49:37 Now I know there are new daily images... But can somebody explain how to get it on my phone? Jul 10 20:49:55 RXShorty: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 10 20:49:56 I got some experience with Ubuntu, but sorry to say but I can't figure it all out. Jul 10 20:50:10 kelvie, thanks.. I read it all the way Jul 10 20:50:43 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r485bdbb5c224 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: illume - fix fullscreen windows with layering. Jul 10 20:50:49 Getting started with your debug board :) Jul 10 20:50:50 order shipping is progressing slowly :/ Jul 10 20:50:58 afaict that guide should work to flash images in there.. my problems are that I don't know which image, and I don't have the freerunner. Jul 10 20:51:02 doc|work: sigh Jul 10 20:51:07 I need a debug board to get it on? Jul 10 20:51:14 no Jul 10 20:51:15 get it on? o_O Jul 10 20:51:23 what exactly are you doing WITH your freerunner? :P Jul 10 20:51:29 :o Jul 10 20:51:35 Well I got the normal "rom" Jul 10 20:51:42 ok...(potentially) stupid question. Do bluetooth headsets work yet? Jul 10 20:52:00 And I wish to get a newer build on it, a daily build Jul 10 20:52:37 And I know... it are truly nooby questions... then again I am trying to docu everything so I can put it on a forum Jul 10 20:52:39 Xaos: I've never seen a success report. I can get mine to pair with my GTA01 but I can't get audio to go through it. Jul 10 20:52:51 don't put it on a forum, put it on the wiki Jul 10 20:53:16 I also will CHocky, I know... I translated some pieces to dutch also. I allways will share Jul 10 20:53:43 But I am trying to find a starting point to get a daily build on it Jul 10 20:54:01 you'd need to record the audio onboard to route it to bluetooth, so calls are probably further off than, say, playing music through bluetooth Jul 10 20:54:05 I am not that experienced... Jul 10 20:54:24 Xaos, yes Jul 10 20:55:10 Dave: you mean for phone calls or for music? I don't care about the music...I want it for the phone calls Jul 10 20:55:18 are you saying bluetooth headsets don't work with freerunner? That sucks it is the law in CA now, wish I knew that before ordering! My reading of the Wiki and the Mailing list indicates they did work Jul 10 20:55:20 phone calls Jul 10 20:55:38 Dave: thanks Jul 10 20:55:56 * Chocky suggests not using cellphone at all in car :p Jul 10 20:56:17 only if you are a teen ;) Jul 10 20:56:32 too many adults should be concentrating on driving, IMO Jul 10 20:56:32 Well i guess I first need an running ubuntu system to flash it. Jul 10 20:56:34 us greybeards can multitask Jul 10 20:56:42 Dave: if you have BT headset audio working, can you please put details of your config on the Wiki? E.g. model of headset, kernel version, ALSA state, bluez config files, ... Jul 10 20:56:47 I cycle. not IME, you can't Jul 10 20:56:49 CHocky... lol... then again carkits... should be nice. Jul 10 20:57:00 sure Jul 10 20:57:22 wolfmanjm: they don't have software support yet, they are capable of doing it Jul 10 20:57:32 k tx Jul 10 20:58:16 Dave: perhaps link somewhere like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Headset_Audio Jul 10 20:58:25 heh Jul 10 20:59:23 wolfmanjm: what is 169x? Jul 10 20:59:28 does the phone use alsa? Jul 10 20:59:46 ieatlint: yes Jul 10 21:00:13 then why use a2dp for bluetooth headsets? Jul 10 21:00:21 choky: it means i don't want to give the last digit of my order# as I use that to pickup from Fremont, it is meant to be secret - sorry Jul 10 21:00:21 Mmontour, Lonetech, remind me again this evening and I'll do it :) Jul 10 21:00:28 4 lines in a asound.conf file does it Jul 10 21:00:38 I will just call 10 times Jul 10 21:00:39 I'm likely to be asleep. it's 23 already Jul 10 21:00:46 Dave: will do. Thanks. Jul 10 21:01:08 Ah :p Jul 10 21:01:15 if you have the number Jul 10 21:01:20 ieatlint: a2dp is one of the bluetooth audio protocols, specifically the one with stereo support. Many headsets don't support recording with it, though. Jul 10 21:01:45 bluetooth-alsa supports both headset and a2dp, I've tested with my headset and laptop Jul 10 21:02:18 ah, i see... my headset is mono, so i've not dealt with stereo Jul 10 21:03:52 a2dp is for playing "high-quality" audio, the headset profile is for low-latency bidir communication Jul 10 21:04:28 LoneTech: do you have a link to instructions for using bluetooth-alsa with a mono headset? Jul 10 21:04:33 pardon me, bluez-audio. bluetooth-alsa is another implementation, apparently. Jul 10 21:06:11 Xaos: I don't know how to interface it with openmoko, I don't have one yet and haven't even managed to build the software for simulation Jul 10 21:06:13 Ohh and just to inform you (hope you dont mind though) I am the owner of www.openmokoforums.com Jul 10 21:06:37 Yes I am aware you all work with the Wiki... And I will update it when I can. Jul 10 21:06:56 So for those users who do like a forum, come and have a see someday. Jul 10 21:07:00 Thanks for your time. Jul 10 21:10:05 * SpeedEvil quacks. Jul 10 21:10:13 wuff. Jul 10 21:10:19 Xaos: but for setting up bluez-audio, just google asoundrc bluetooth Jul 10 21:11:07 Speedevil :) Jul 10 21:11:20 * Gyb wonders: why have I a highlight on "wuff" ? *g* Jul 10 21:11:28 :D Jul 10 21:12:08 wuff Jul 10 21:12:10 wuff Jul 10 21:12:12 hehe Jul 10 21:12:22 Xaos = screen emulator Jul 10 21:12:25 LoneTech: thanks Jul 10 21:15:02 btw will there be an usb charger for the freerunner? Jul 10 21:15:17 That's all there is... Jul 10 21:15:23 pjj: it charges exclusively on usb, the charger has a usb connector. Jul 10 21:15:32 Well, USB to USB yes :p Jul 10 21:15:47 charger faster with charger than computer usb connection, though. Jul 10 21:16:20 unless one forces it to exceed the current limit USB is rated for Jul 10 21:16:43 Yep :D Jul 10 21:16:48 I Know it goes into the usb hole in the freerunner but didn't know the other end of the cable was usb aswell Jul 10 21:16:56 yep Jul 10 21:17:04 there's a dumb usb ac adapter included as well Jul 10 21:17:21 <_newbie3> dumb but special. Jul 10 21:17:28 ok nice, I can easily take the freerunner to work then and run some cool programs on it ;) Jul 10 21:17:38 hm? I didn't think the charger's cable was detachable from the charger Jul 10 21:18:29 <_newbie3> LoneTech: yes, the charger is special and the special usb connector is not detachable. Jul 10 21:18:38 <_newbie3> but it's forcable via software. Jul 10 21:19:21 right. so the other end of the cable, as pjj said, is the ac adapter with the charger, but an ordinary data cable (included, iirc) will also charge. Jul 10 21:19:50 Does anyone know a recent 2007.2 build for gta01 that mostly works? Jul 10 21:20:34 # 1363 is confused on track date maybe? Jul 10 21:21:14 linuxxr: no, he told he got the confirmation today Jul 10 21:21:30 bear in mind timezones, etc Jul 10 21:21:37 pk Jul 10 21:22:10 love hoe daMaestro put http://xkcd.com/281/ in the topic Jul 10 21:22:14 how* Jul 10 21:22:40 aye Jul 10 21:27:16 lol the flying lawnmower has got to be my fav moko ad Jul 10 21:27:44 where's that? Jul 10 21:28:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcuBE0SLQgk&feature=related Jul 10 21:28:17 sreensaver? Jul 10 21:28:36 thats one cool RC plane Jul 10 21:28:46 o.O Jul 10 21:28:58 ha Jul 10 21:29:01 i saw one that was snoopy on his house with those red baron goggles Jul 10 21:29:09 Be more productive you guys, someone go make some decent om themes. Jul 10 21:29:22 ZE GOGGLES Jul 10 21:30:54 havent gotten my phone openmoko linux handheld computer Jul 10 21:31:08 Does anyone know a recent 2007.2 build for gta01 that mostly works? Jul 10 21:31:59 Last I heard was from 26th June by Scaredycat Jul 10 21:32:10 doesnt the one on buildhost work? Jul 10 21:32:40 I guess it does, but I haven't tried it Jul 10 21:32:43 :) Jul 10 21:33:39 I just flashed the gta02 2007.2 build; haven't done exhaustive testing but the basics seem to work. Jul 10 21:34:16 (I updated the suspend/resume patches on my site for the recent 2007.2 build, including fixes for the missing-audio-on-resume problem. Jul 10 21:34:21 ) Jul 10 21:34:39 mwester: fixes or workaround? Jul 10 21:34:59 reloading the modules do it? Jul 10 21:35:08 Depends on one's definition. a mix of both, IMO. Jul 10 21:35:24 mwester: I mean for audio Jul 10 21:35:27 CM: Well, I'm looking for actual 2007.2 builds, to port stuff to SHR Jul 10 21:35:32 mwester: the problem is easy to find, hard to fix Jul 10 21:35:49 mwester: Great, I'll use the latest, then Jul 10 21:35:59 Pulseaudio? Jul 10 21:36:12 mwester: no, lrsync function fails to read register Jul 10 21:36:27 mwester: but only during resume, works 100% all other times Jul 10 21:38:39 The problem I'm referrring to is that there are no clicks when tapping on the touchscreen, and no other audio from anything that involves pulseaudio. Jul 10 21:39:11 The user-space stuff seems to have a fight with the kernel stuff, you get messages in dmesg about DMA channels, and pulseaudio goes out to lunch. Jul 10 21:39:43 The fix, according to google, is to use pactl to suspend pulseadio when suspending, and resume when resuming. :) Works. Jul 10 21:40:51 gah Jul 10 21:41:18 so, this is probably the wrong place to ask, but where is this ASU firmware available from? Jul 10 21:41:39 Greetings, hachi. Jul 10 21:41:49 hachi: On the Repositories wiki page, the images that have openmoko*qtopia in the name Jul 10 21:41:50 It should be on the wiki. it's on buildhost. Jul 10 21:41:55 thanks Jul 10 21:44:03 http://chooseopen.com:81/openmoko/build/qtopia/?M=D Jul 10 21:44:07 does that work for anyone? Jul 10 21:44:15 I can't hit port 81 it seems, or maybe it's just down Jul 10 21:44:18 hachi - http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080710/?C=M;O=D Jul 10 21:44:31 now I'm getting confused, I thought freerunner != ASU Jul 10 21:44:44 mwester: google is wrong Jul 10 21:44:44 the ASU images are in there, however. Jul 10 21:44:49 I'm really wrong then, oh well Jul 10 21:45:13 They're mixed - It's a party! (of confusion and bewilderment) :) Jul 10 21:45:14 mwester: its actually a kernel bug, audio driver doesnt resume correctly because lrsync function doesnt get a valid read from a register Jul 10 21:45:33 mwester: but you work around it by suspending pulse first so you wouldnt see the kernel bug anymore Jul 10 21:45:52 I hope they don't run out of dboards :) Jul 10 21:46:06 hachi: Freerunner is the hardware Jul 10 21:46:10 or I'll have to contract some chinese children down the street :p Jul 10 21:46:16 ASU is a release that (more or less) runs on the hardware Jul 10 21:46:17 cool cool, I'm slow :) Jul 10 21:46:23 :D Jul 10 21:46:24 Dave: you do what you have to do Jul 10 21:47:01 hachi: NP, no way to know what the words mean exactly until you see a bunch of stuff about it, or someone just tells you :-) Jul 10 21:47:12 http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ Jul 10 21:47:22 or you read that article :P Jul 10 21:47:42 Chocky, yeah Jul 10 21:48:04 bwahahaha Jul 10 21:48:18 no wonder it's running slow... Jul 10 21:48:42 tell those kids to go ffaster Jul 10 21:48:42 -f Jul 10 21:48:50 root@om-gta02:~/ATP# uptime 17:48:11 up 1 day, 21:11, 2 users, load average: 4.20, 6.44, 5.31 Jul 10 21:48:58 haha Jul 10 21:48:59 more hamsters! Jul 10 21:49:05 no wonder the touchscreen is unresponsive :) Jul 10 21:49:17 5 dollar. touch you long time. Jul 10 21:49:25 Dave: swapon, and it gets better IME. Jul 10 21:49:28 Chocky: woohoo, I need in on that action Jul 10 21:49:33 yeah :] Jul 10 21:49:50 wow, only 15 850's left at the official store! Jul 10 21:50:01 TAsn: are you sure? :p Jul 10 21:50:12 they will get more Jul 10 21:50:14 Chocky, try to buy more and you will see Jul 10 21:50:23 does ASU run on a GTA01 ? Jul 10 21:50:24 Either that, or try the black market! Jul 10 21:50:25 yes, I know. but I think they changed it Jul 10 21:50:30 furthermore, they marked group sale as sold out :) Jul 10 21:50:34 hachi: more or less Jul 10 21:50:35 really. Jul 10 21:50:37 fnar Jul 10 21:50:51 Swap Swap Swap Jul 10 21:50:55 oh dear Jul 10 21:50:56 chuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn Jul 10 21:50:58 I see uboot for GTA01, but no images labeled for the system Jul 10 21:50:59 they really are out Jul 10 21:51:01 http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif - shows a large burst some hours ago. Jul 10 21:51:08 burst of orders Jul 10 21:51:11 maybe the gta03 is closer than we think Jul 10 21:51:12 You don't want uBoot, do you? Jul 10 21:51:34 wheres graph? Jul 10 21:51:36 look at the dates on that graph Jul 10 21:51:39 It wasn't me, I swear! Jul 10 21:51:41 ending... 11/07? Jul 10 21:51:59 oh wait, 7 is month! Jul 10 21:52:03 hachi: Hrm, there should be... keep looking around Jul 10 21:52:03 I thought that was year :) Jul 10 21:52:05 :) Jul 10 21:52:10 TAsn: 12 left on UK site Jul 10 21:52:22 hotcakes Jul 10 21:52:23 buy them while they are hot Jul 10 21:52:26 zmoll, truebox already ran out a couple of times :) Jul 10 21:52:27 in fact buy 12 each Jul 10 21:52:27 wurp2: I'm happy to build my own... is it easy? Jul 10 21:52:28 drop it like it's hot Jul 10 21:52:33 me glad i ordered Jul 10 21:52:38 mostly time consuming Jul 10 21:52:40 the more you buy, the happier I get Jul 10 21:52:45 hah Jul 10 21:52:45 I've got plenty of CPU Jul 10 21:52:55 Speedevil, what are the swap options? Jul 10 21:53:13 Dave: swap options? Jul 10 21:53:18 oh bah Jul 10 21:53:24 hachi: Easy but time consuming Jul 10 21:53:33 hachi: > 6 hours, most likely Jul 10 21:53:34 Daviey: dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/card/tmpswap bs=1024 count=102400 Jul 10 21:53:46 oh, okay good Jul 10 21:53:47 gonna need a new freerunner list for people who didnt get one if it sells out Jul 10 21:53:51 mkswap /media/card/tmpswap;swapon /media/card/tmpswap Jul 10 21:53:52 TAsn: That is, 12 freerunners on 18 july shipment. Jul 10 21:54:06 Is this on teh wikis? Jul 10 21:54:13 zmoll, i know. Jul 10 21:54:17 Dave: I on't think so. Jul 10 21:54:22 XorA|gone: Ok, well then it's a workaround. I have the patch you put in place for the failed register read, so there's probably something else as the root cause. Jul 10 21:54:22 swapon; swapoff Jul 10 21:54:26 it's after they already ran out of this shipment as well. Jul 10 21:54:27 Speedevil, it should be! Jul 10 21:54:31 they just got more, again. Jul 10 21:54:45 :-) I am eagerly awaiting the 18/7 shipment :-) Jul 10 21:54:55 come on... I'm waiting for the GTA01 here to power on Jul 10 21:54:57 bloody thing Jul 10 21:55:01 * Dave figures... wiki/INCREASE_YOUR_MEMORIES!!11!111 Jul 10 21:55:02 are there any rumors about when will the 900 be at the official store? Jul 10 21:55:17 TAsn: I can start one, if you'd like. Jul 10 21:55:24 hah! Jul 10 21:55:27 Sounds good to me :p Jul 10 21:55:33 Qwell, well that's better than nothing. Jul 10 21:55:37 can i pick a date? Jul 10 21:55:41 sure Jul 10 21:55:47 hm... Jul 10 21:55:48 Not seen not nothing about 900 Jul 10 21:56:21 28/7 Jul 10 21:56:25 sounds good? Jul 10 21:57:08 well sucks to be me, i want to buy it from the us, but i may have to buy it from the uk. Jul 10 21:57:24 hm Jul 10 21:57:28 though the shipment only to billing address when paying with CC is kinda annoying... :* Jul 10 21:57:53 Oh noes, the 900 is out on 28/7 !! I will be behind the times :-( Jul 10 21:58:01 just wish I'd called Chase at 7am instead of waiting until 8.30am Jul 10 21:58:26 zmoll: You know 900 has been out in EU & UK since before FR was on sale at om.com? Jul 10 21:58:56 Qwell, oh nvm, i don't need you Jul 10 21:59:09 i just saw there's a DOA for the 900 Jul 10 21:59:09 I know very little. I just wanted to join in. Jul 10 21:59:22 Sold Out? Jul 10 21:59:22 GSM 900Mhz variant stock is due on on July 25th Jul 10 21:59:32 How sensitive are the accelerometers? Jul 10 22:00:19 johncylee: not Jul 10 22:00:31 johngay: 16 milligeee resolution. Jul 10 22:00:33 Can they maintain a stationary dot on the screen as I move the phone? Jul 10 22:00:34 johngay, the accelerometers are a mirror of life, how sensitive they are depends on how sensitive you are Jul 10 22:00:35 ;0 Jul 10 22:00:50 so unhelpful Jul 10 22:00:55 johngay: what do you mean? Jul 10 22:01:21 I was just thinking of an inverse etch-a-scetch. Jul 10 22:01:33 hot Jul 10 22:01:37 what, the drawing moves your hand? Jul 10 22:01:54 Soviet Etch-R-Sketch? Jul 10 22:01:58 The dot stays in one place and you move the phone to draw. (= Jul 10 22:01:59 heh Jul 10 22:02:04 johncylee: 16 milligee is 16 centimeters/second/second Jul 10 22:02:10 * Chocky slaps Slashdot memes Jul 10 22:02:11 johngay: so no Jul 10 22:02:17 whee Jul 10 22:02:19 file in wiki under science fiction Jul 10 22:02:23 I think MIT has done something like that Jul 10 22:02:49 johngay: so after 1 second, it's 8cm out, after 10s, 8m out Jul 10 22:03:10 My original thought was a security measure where you held phone and signed your name to un-lock it. Jul 10 22:03:38 johngay: you can't do that. Jul 10 22:03:54 can you say "patent encumbered"? Jul 10 22:03:57 Obviously, it the sensitivity is that poor. Jul 10 22:04:01 johngay: But you could change the orientation of the phone to "roll" the dot around Jul 10 22:04:09 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r9575d8f798ad 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (gpschannel.py ubx.py): Jul 10 22:04:09 freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Port UBX parsing code from ruby over to python. Jul 10 22:04:09 freesmartphone.org: Support for AID-ALM and AID-EPH packets and generic UBX parsing is done. Jul 10 22:04:12 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r600e2440a9c5 10/ (conf/frameworkd.conf framework/subsystems/ogpsd/factory.py): ogpsd: Use frameworkd.conf for GPS device configuration Jul 10 22:04:29 If I don't know about a patent, I can't infringe it ( Jul 10 22:04:32 (= Jul 10 22:04:32 Because there's always that 1G pulling down, which is way bigger than the error Jul 10 22:04:34 aw Jul 10 22:04:39 johngay: Yes, you can Jul 10 22:04:46 johngay: there is always GPS. Jul 10 22:04:53 johngay: But you're probably in a better position in court to pay less damages Jul 10 22:05:00 johngay: you can run round in the shape of your signature. Jul 10 22:05:05 SpeedEvil: Only if you want to run around in a field to make your sig Jul 10 22:05:06 GPS as an acellerometer? ;-) Jul 10 22:05:17 * Chocky laffs Jul 10 22:05:42 Like the guy who drew his face on the world with gps Jul 10 22:05:59 or, rather, the guy who set up a hoax website about having done so Jul 10 22:06:06 Part of patent infringement is knowingly infringing. If I don't know about it, then I'm not liable. Jul 10 22:06:27 johngay, you sound like someone who knows about it ;)( Jul 10 22:06:33 johngay: That is not true Jul 10 22:06:40 johngay: err - no Jul 10 22:06:44 plus this is the US Jul 10 22:06:47 johngay: if you know about it, you're liable for enhanced damages. Jul 10 22:06:55 johngay: if you don't, you're still liable. Jul 10 22:07:19 johngay: not knowing about a patent is _not_ a defence against infringment. Jul 10 22:07:28 O.K., I was generalising, but that's why Linus never looks up patents. Jul 10 22:07:53 don't know where you got that piece of information from either Jul 10 22:08:31 Direct quote from Linus when SCO filed their suit against IBM. Jul 10 22:09:44 If I figure something out on my own, I can argue it was simple basic knowledge and the patent is not valid. Jul 10 22:09:53 goodluckwiththat Jul 10 22:10:00 not true johngay Jul 10 22:10:05 Hmm, I do wonder if they can sue you for damages if you don't make any money off the infringement... I know they can put an injunction against you continuing to distribute infringing "devices" Jul 10 22:10:08 If I know about the patent, I've got no defence at all. Jul 10 22:10:29 johngay: u'd have to argue it in a court Jul 10 22:10:30 you do if you have prior art, or obviousness Jul 10 22:10:30 I said I can argue. Not that it'd work. Jul 10 22:10:34 with a lot of lawyers and money Jul 10 22:10:35 :) Jul 10 22:10:40 yes, they can sue you Jul 10 22:10:50 mostg patents are blatantly obvious to someone skilled in he art Jul 10 22:10:55 they can claim you cost them earnings, even if you didn't make money on it Jul 10 22:10:57 ieatlint: Sorry, successfully sue you Jul 10 22:11:27 he uspto is just a lazy-arse clod that will appove anything u waft under its nose once u have paid the fees and had enouhg lawyers sign their names on the application Jul 10 22:11:29 But if I can figure it out, it must be blatently obvious. I.E. the patent is invalid on grounds of obviousness. (= Jul 10 22:11:59 johngay: So you're arguing in court that you're too stupid to figure out anything interesting? ;-) Jul 10 22:12:09 i think that's what he must be saying Jul 10 22:12:19 Yes. I'm sure I could convice any jury of that (= Jul 10 22:12:25 That is totally meant to be a joke, btw, not a comment on you whatsoever Jul 10 22:12:58 how can I check the status of my freerunner order? (perhaps get a tracking number??) Jul 10 22:13:20 BuzzBlaster: see the topic Jul 10 22:13:42 One look at my code here: http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,25,2107 is proof enough Jul 10 22:13:48 mmontour: yeah..I see that. But it just links to a comic Jul 10 22:14:30 The serious answer is that you should get a tracking number when your order has shipped. There's a page on the Wiki tracking the highest order# for which someone has received a tracking number Jul 10 22:14:50 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 10 22:15:02 all my fault, that page Jul 10 22:16:07 man, they really are getting through about 200 orders a day Jul 10 22:17:03 worth noting that page relies on people reporting the info Jul 10 22:17:34 so it's not like an official tally, and if someone fails to report they got a tracking num after previously putting themselves up as "not yet" ... Jul 10 22:17:46 true. Jul 10 22:17:49 ieatlint: yeah, but people not getting responses yet says enough Jul 10 22:17:51 but, you know, Jul 10 22:17:58 all a bit of fun Jul 10 22:18:03 oh, i'm not trying to knock it Jul 10 22:18:10 aye Jul 10 22:18:11 i'm 1459 on there Jul 10 22:18:18 just figure i'd add a disclaimer :P Jul 10 22:18:25 my main problem is that I can't get past your nick Jul 10 22:18:25 So how long do they plan to have the phones available? Is it really open-ended or am I gonna miss out if I don't get my money together soon? Jul 10 22:18:36 well 10 packs just sold out. go figure. Jul 10 22:18:48 oh no Jul 10 22:18:59 i think there's supposed to be a second batch at some point Jul 10 22:19:09 I'm sure. if you want to wait ;-) Jul 10 22:19:50 i'm already waiting... i haven't even gotten to the point in the topic-linked xkcd comic :( Jul 10 22:19:57 I don't mind a wait, as long as I don't end up SOL if I wait too long. Jul 10 22:20:01 ~SHR Jul 10 22:20:02 shr is, like, Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Jul 10 22:20:27 wurp2: he, good to know Jul 10 22:21:25 Does anybody know if the hardware for the freerunner is open? I couldn't find any schematics or pcb layouts on their pages last night... Jul 10 22:21:35 hm. Jul 10 22:21:37 Alright, here's how it's going to work: I'm going to check my e-mail. Openmoko WILL have sent a tracking number. I will refrain from claiming to have slept with OpenMoko's mother. Jul 10 22:21:53 * Chocky high fives budfive - SoCal Jul 10 22:21:59 rivalarrival: you've just set yourself up for a disappointment Jul 10 22:22:02 schematics/PCB are not open in general, but if you ask a specific question then you can usually get an answer from one of the developers Jul 10 22:22:17 Openmoko's mom is a real slut! Jul 10 22:22:55 So am I, but I'm a lesbian trapped in a mans body. Jul 10 22:23:20 di you know if there are plans to open those up at some point? Does FIC have ownership and refusing to open those up? Jul 10 22:23:38 rivalarrival: haha Jul 10 22:23:39 johngay: you're not gonna miss out. Now they've finalised the production model they can just keep rolling them out down the production line. Jul 10 22:23:58 rollin' rollin' rollin' Jul 10 22:24:09 * doc|work stabs Chocky Jul 10 22:24:12 I know they can, it's a matter of if they will. Jul 10 22:24:25 * Chocky enstabened Jul 10 22:24:27 'course they will Jul 10 22:24:33 budfive: in fairness, if you were openmoko, would you? Jul 10 22:24:51 budfive: we don't need schematics to have an open phone Jul 10 22:24:53 docwork: isn't that the whole point of the project? Jul 10 22:25:07 budfive: nope, open use, not open hardware Jul 10 22:25:08 There was talk at one point of opening the hardware at some point, but FIC wanted to re-coup their design costs first. Fair enough I think. Jul 10 22:25:18 johngay: indeed Jul 10 22:25:25 that's fine, i just wanted to know Jul 10 22:26:34 i don't agree that this falls beyond the ideals of the project, though. At all. My desired use can have something to do with fiddling with the hardware directly, for example. If there are hardware bugs, I want to be able to fix those just like I'll be able to fix software bugs. Anyway... Jul 10 22:26:44 Does anyone know if the X based Qtopia puts each window in a real X window, or does it all run as one X app? Jul 10 22:27:43 so hardcore Jul 10 22:28:04 budfive: where are you? Jul 10 22:28:06 budfive: no harm in asking, they're generally pretty open about that stuff Jul 10 22:28:40 budfive: joerg is on here sometimes, or email the mailing list Jul 10 22:29:39 ok. thanks. Jul 10 22:29:44 chocky: pasadena. you in la? Jul 10 22:29:58 North County Jul 10 22:30:01 agrajag: I'm guessing you're a fan of DNA? Jul 10 22:30:32 ok, I'm actually in San Diego right now, but, well. Jul 10 22:30:42 anyone got any idea why there have been orders skipped? Jul 10 22:31:05 mystery Jul 10 22:31:24 esp. since _mine_ is one of those Jul 10 22:31:34 dangit Jul 10 22:31:40 not good Jul 10 22:31:58 Chocky: hahaha Jul 10 22:32:21 * Chocky sobs Jul 10 22:32:27 funny if it shows up tomorrow wit no track # Jul 10 22:32:32 yeah Jul 10 22:32:39 budfive: Well, the I2C/SPI solder points are clearly marked, for example, and are easily accessible under linux Jul 10 22:32:39 quite Jul 10 22:32:50 thing is, I have 9 people waiting Jul 10 22:33:07 ooo gruopage Jul 10 22:33:56 yeah, when I looked at the list first I wondered if they were shipping individual orders first, just to get the order numbers down, but it doesn't look like that according to the page Jul 10 22:34:35 I just tried to do a make update, which has failed Jul 10 22:34:43 monotone.openmoko.org is dead or somefin? Jul 10 22:34:44 they ran outa large boxes at that point Jul 10 22:35:01 someone run to Staples to get more! Jul 10 22:35:20 linuxxr: hehe, yeah, except they've skipped individual orders too Jul 10 22:35:36 I can't wait to show my FreeRunner to an iPhone uses, opening a web page via Wi-Fi and saying "Can you do that?" Jul 10 22:35:40 maybe we should ask about debug boards on that page? Jul 10 22:35:53 johngay: erm, they can Jul 10 22:35:58 * Chocky was about to say Jul 10 22:36:22 install some arbitrary piece of software. Jul 10 22:36:22 johngay: ask them can they install things that aren't apple approved without jailbreaking it :) Jul 10 22:36:27 I really don't need a special box. A pizza box would be fine, as long as they kinda scrape the cheese and pepperoni out of it. If they feel bad about it, they can send the proper packaging later. Jul 10 22:36:36 rivalarrival: hahaha Jul 10 22:36:38 Then plug the USB cable into a printer and print the web page and say "Can you do that?" Jul 10 22:36:56 then they'll answer a phone call and say "can you do that?" Jul 10 22:37:03 Agrajag-: LOL Jul 10 22:37:05 Then plug it into a CD burner and burn a CD (= Jul 10 22:37:05 johngay: oh, or, much more ridiculously, "look, here's me copying and pasting" Jul 10 22:37:22 hachi: monotone has been replace for quite some time. You'll probably be best off by deleting your build env and starting over. Jul 10 22:37:30 lovely Jul 10 22:37:30 Oooh, burning cds with the openmoko... That would kick ass. Jul 10 22:37:30 johngay: one up them.. ssh the postscript file printed into a computer via wifi Jul 10 22:37:46 cat print.ps | ssh machine lpr Jul 10 22:37:51 copying and pasting! Jul 10 22:38:01 no need for usb cable :P Jul 10 22:38:14 just like how I can print documents at home from work Jul 10 22:38:23 This might just replace the eeepc at some point... Jul 10 22:38:49 * rivalarrival is drooling Jul 10 22:38:51 hell, as soon as I get emacs working on this thing Jul 10 22:38:58 it will cover 75% of my uses Jul 10 22:38:59 kelvie_work: it runs Jul 10 22:39:04 I thought it was just as powerful as an eee PC? Jul 10 22:39:05 can I get dfu-util to list the partitions on the device? Jul 10 22:39:13 edistar: hrm.. is the screen big enough for 80 columns? :p Jul 10 22:39:14 kelvie_work: running on the freerunner ;) Jul 10 22:39:18 when held upright Jul 10 22:39:25 kelvie_work: hrm, that's the problem ;) Jul 10 22:39:29 do multiple-touch points work on the touchscreen? can you press emacs key combos? Jul 10 22:39:29 edistar: aw man.. now I'm even _more_ impatient Jul 10 22:39:33 kelvie_work: but it works.. Jul 10 22:39:37 edistar: does it do it held lengthwise? :p Jul 10 22:39:39 in landscape Jul 10 22:39:40 it has 640x480 Jul 10 22:39:43 johngay: Not after you mod the eeepc with extra hardware Jul 10 22:39:46 14 left Jul 10 22:39:47 mmm :p Jul 10 22:40:08 <_newbie3> i think the eee has more power. arm isn't as much power per MHZ as x86... Jul 10 22:40:12 who needs all these software stacks anyways.. when you got an operating system like emacs running on it :p Jul 10 22:40:47 Yea, the only thing emacs is missing is a kernel. Jul 10 22:41:06 But it's due any day now, since 1989. Jul 10 22:42:10 Is it possible to run a serial console over USB? Jul 10 22:42:16 yes Jul 10 22:42:23 well, I mean Jul 10 22:42:29 if it's a USB serial thing ;-) Jul 10 22:43:18 No, I need RS232 on an RJ45 connector type setup. Jul 10 22:43:28 Where's the information on orders being skipped? Jul 10 22:43:31 computer -> USB/Serial adapater -> TTL logic convertor -> FR connector? Jul 10 22:43:44 oh, one of those Jul 10 22:43:46 mm is it possible to ssh into the phone via bluetooth? Jul 10 22:43:51 those are wired in about 6 different ways Jul 10 22:44:08 FreeRunner -> USB/Serial adapater -> RJ45 Jul 10 22:44:28 ah, that makes more sense. Yes, enitrely possible Jul 10 22:44:51 Well, I'd need it for Sun, IBM and HP console management ports. Jul 10 22:45:16 yes, I have some units here with that wiring. but it's different to any of the wiring of those things ;-) Jul 10 22:45:23 that connector I mean Jul 10 22:46:01 Can't wait till I can plug my FreeRunner into a Sun console management port and run a terminal on it. Jul 10 22:46:24 That will shut up those crackberry fanatics at work (= Jul 10 22:46:28 hehehe Jul 10 22:46:36 "oh look, and it can do email!" Jul 10 22:46:47 until you want to actually type anything at speed on the console :p Jul 10 22:46:55 bluetooth keyboard Jul 10 22:47:03 Chocky: blu.... damn you rivalarrival Jul 10 22:47:11 I'm pretty quick with txt-typing. Jul 10 22:47:16 doc|work: :) Jul 10 22:47:21 <_newbie3> i bet blackberrys work with 1.8V sim card though. Jul 10 22:47:39 kelvie_work: yes, you can ssh over BT Jul 10 22:47:40 hmmm, analysts say motorola's handset division's not worth 500 million Jul 10 22:47:48 mmontour: wow Jul 10 22:47:50 aw, only 450? Jul 10 22:47:51 Whats a blackberry??? Is it like a crackberry? Jul 10 22:47:57 then this makes this the best phone ever in itself Jul 10 22:48:02 Need more battery power. Jul 10 22:48:04 ssh'ing into my phone to do coding Jul 10 22:48:30 okay... I'm puzzled Jul 10 22:48:41 Hi, puzzled, I'm rival Jul 10 22:48:59 Hi, puzzled, I'm John Jul 10 22:49:10 <_newbie3> johngay: a blackberry is a kind of digital lesh that's used to get employees to check their email even while asleep. Jul 10 22:49:14 and no one can rival that Jul 10 22:49:15 hi puzzled, I'm an alcoholic Jul 10 22:49:20 oh, I figured it out Jul 10 22:49:32 care to enlighten us? Jul 10 22:49:32 dfu-util was seeing my bluetooth dongle and trying to flash openmoko to it :) Jul 10 22:49:42 Nice Jul 10 22:49:44 yikes Jul 10 22:50:12 beats me, I though the mfgr/product ids in usb were to prevent this, but meh... whatever Jul 10 22:50:41 Can you make phone calls on you BT dongle now? Jul 10 22:50:48 it failed Jul 10 22:50:57 <_newbie3> maybe the bluetooth dongle uses the same protocol for updates, it's an usb standard... Jul 10 22:50:58 the dongle won't boot anymore ;) Jul 10 22:51:15 I'll have to reinstall vista on the dongle Jul 10 22:51:30 sounds painful Jul 10 22:51:42 Put emacs on it. That'll boot on anything (= Jul 10 22:52:07 yeah, but vista has notepad... emacs doesn't have a decent editor :D Jul 10 22:52:44 er, as you say, vista doesn't have a decent editor Jul 10 22:53:34 hachi: you can specify the vendor/product IDs when you call dfu-util (-d flag) Jul 10 22:53:36 vista doesn't have a decent '.' Jul 10 22:54:10 I just unplugged the dongle... so much easier Jul 10 22:55:29 * hachi whistles in the dark while the rootfs is written Jul 10 22:55:46 * Chocky whistles in the dark for his tracking number Jul 10 22:56:27 * johngay doesn't want to know what hachi and Chocky are doing in the dark together. Jul 10 22:57:00 can only order 14 from the store now Jul 10 22:57:21 * SpeedEvil can only order 0. Jul 10 22:57:34 A) no CC. B) no cash. Jul 10 22:57:53 just go show up at their distro centre and rob them Jul 10 22:57:54 hmmm.. openmoko-mediaplayer2 is not able to display it's stock icons on things like "play" etc, so I get a bunch of small empty buttons (fresh FreeRunner) Jul 10 22:58:00 wow, no credit card? Jul 10 22:58:17 ieatlint: If they don't send me a farging tracking number, I just might! Jul 10 22:58:21 kelvie_work: no. I have credit problems due to unfortunately timed illness. Jul 10 22:58:26 ack :( Jul 10 22:58:34 mw|: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Un-crippling_the_2007.2_image Jul 10 22:58:40 heh, I wedged the shop. I can't get to my cart, since I'm trying to add more more than they have Jul 10 22:58:41 so do you rely on paypal? Jul 10 22:58:43 the phones have been in fremont for a week now... 45min away and yet so far Jul 10 22:59:00 Get you ass down there and help them pack! Jul 10 22:59:09 abraxa_: thanks, I'll have a look (the wiki is a bit hard to find the correct info in) Jul 10 22:59:35 dang a whole week Jul 10 22:59:43 mw|: When I get some time I'll add the theme to the bitbake recipe so this'll be fixed relatively soon anyway Jul 10 22:59:48 incl. 4th july, mind Jul 10 23:00:59 what's the deal with putting 3g sim's into the 1973, can I fix the firmware? Jul 10 23:01:07 yeah, who knew that we could've just arranged a group order, had me pick it up and had me mail the damned phones to all of you faster Jul 10 23:01:10 abraxa_: also, when does the new snapshot for the toolchain arrive (I had to build opkg myself) Jul 10 23:01:15 I remember ther was a long debate a while ago... I don't know the result Jul 10 23:01:19 linty: aye. sigh Jul 10 23:01:22 (I'm a complete newbe on this project) Jul 10 23:01:55 mw|: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/sdk/ - fresh from the oven every day Jul 10 23:03:02 hachi: you can't update the GSM firmware yourself. You could mail your phone to Michael Shiloh and he would update it for you (don't know if this offer is still valid). Jul 10 23:03:09 They need a webcam in their distribution center. (I imagine it's somebody's garage) Jul 10 23:03:11 yeah, I tried http://downloads.openmoko.org/toolchains/openmoko-i686-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 as stated on the "ToolChain" wiki-page Jul 10 23:03:18 that explains it Jul 10 23:03:25 Ah, found it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner? -- order numbers & ship dates Jul 10 23:04:04 bleh, I wonder if anyone even sells old sims anymomre Jul 10 23:04:13 ebay :p Jul 10 23:04:21 kinda pointless to have this thing if I can't get onto a network with it Jul 10 23:04:56 hachi: GTA01 or 02? Jul 10 23:05:00 01 Jul 10 23:05:11 hachi: Then Michael Shiloh will fix it for you Jul 10 23:05:12 serial number 213 :D Jul 10 23:05:15 You're not planning to use it as a phone, are you??? Jul 10 23:05:24 I was planning to try it as a phone Jul 10 23:05:29 not use it Jul 10 23:06:16 I also was planning to not be an arse... and I just broke that Jul 10 23:06:21 bleh Jul 10 23:06:25 does anyone even know the address of the warehouse? Jul 10 23:06:29 hah Jul 10 23:06:30 raid Jul 10 23:06:38 blinx: hardly, you paid money for a phone... :/ Jul 10 23:06:43 they say to enter it as the shipping address if you want to pick up a 10pk, but they never tell you what the address it Jul 10 23:06:44 is Jul 10 23:06:51 abraxa_: I tried the first sted, but no clock appeared.. is that a good sign? :-p Jul 10 23:07:23 mw|: Then you either did something wrong or you didn't restart X Jul 10 23:07:47 I can try to restart X again Jul 10 23:08:53 Any success? Jul 10 23:09:33 yes, appeared this time Jul 10 23:09:41 Good :) Jul 10 23:10:27 wolfy Jul 10 23:10:44 woohoo I just picked up out 10 pack from the warehouse. He said they are shipping about 1,000 a day! Jul 10 23:10:59 bitch Jul 10 23:11:05 where's mine! Jul 10 23:11:06 wow Jul 10 23:11:21 wolfmanjm: mean! Jul 10 23:11:26 wolfmanjm: ask them where's ours?! Jul 10 23:11:27 :) Jul 10 23:11:32 linty: now you can ask address Jul 10 23:11:49 so that should give others an idea of when theirs will ship, my orfder # was 1692 Jul 10 23:12:00 wolfmanjm: wait, 1000 phones or 1000 orders? Jul 10 23:12:00 i found it, 5020 Brandin Court, Fremont, CA Jul 10 23:12:02 mine's 1345 Jul 10 23:12:05 Where can I ship caffeine, and in what manner would they prefer it? (Coffee, Soda, Red Bull, Bawls...) Jul 10 23:12:09 gpe-icons made things look a bit better Jul 10 23:12:12 he said they shipped 1,00 packages today Jul 10 23:12:27 hmmm Jul 10 23:12:27 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:BloodcurdlingScream lol read that Jul 10 23:12:30 1,000 Jul 10 23:12:38 wolfmanjm: 10 packs are all out on shop Jul 10 23:12:50 kd8ikt: I love that! Jul 10 23:13:00 and I can only order 13 singles. Jul 10 23:14:14 That's a great idea, but doesn't freefall look the same as stationary to the accelerometers? Jul 10 23:14:27 stroller: No, they can detect gravity Jul 10 23:14:28 yes, but you know when it'll stop Jul 10 23:14:46 rivalarrival: ah, cool! Jul 10 23:14:50 freefall sees 0m/s^2. stationary sees 9.8m/s^2 down Jul 10 23:14:55 ah Jul 10 23:15:13 gravity-o-meter Jul 10 23:15:21 kd8ikt: Hahaa, that's nifty ;) Jul 10 23:15:43 They detect the sum of dynamic and gravity accelleration. Jul 10 23:15:56 Heh, pinball. Jul 10 23:16:31 kd8ikt: That would sure be a hit with the girls. Take that, idrone! Jul 10 23:16:48 Ooh, what do you call that game? has a marble in a maze, you turn knobs to pitch and roll the maze itself? Jul 10 23:17:10 pitcharollyballknobs Jul 10 23:17:18 Yeah, that's it. Jul 10 23:17:28 someone really should program that game.. Jul 10 23:17:44 Anyone wanna see my ModelFokker? Jul 10 23:17:54 Oooh, how about a bubble level? Jul 10 23:17:59 johngay: as in, a plane? Jul 10 23:18:03 labyrinth. But check out neverball Jul 10 23:18:13 http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fokkerfrontal4.jpg Jul 10 23:18:29 Yeah, someone needs to turn it into a torpedo level. :) Jul 10 23:18:57 i've played neverball with my thinkpad laptop which has accelerometers Jul 10 23:19:10 I'm gonna port http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,25,2107 when I get mine. Jul 10 23:19:16 it's a bit of a novelty.. it's better with a mouse :) Jul 10 23:19:18 johngay: nice! Jul 10 23:20:20 I'll ask again, are you a fan of DNA, agrajag? Jul 10 23:20:31 i was at the time i chose my irc nick :) Jul 10 23:20:38 http://www.professionalequipment.com/smarttool-sensor-module-92346/laser-levels/ Jul 10 23:20:51 Need a program to replace that device. Jul 10 23:21:19 Did you hear the new radio series? He did your voice! Jul 10 23:21:28 yeah Jul 10 23:22:01 I met him when I was just a teen. Damn he was tall (= Jul 10 23:22:32 rivalarrival: The accellerometers are readily accessible. Get working :) Jul 10 23:22:47 abraxa_: One tiny little problem... Jul 10 23:23:06 I'm still waiting for a @@!#$%!@%@%$ TRACKING NUMBER!!! :-) Jul 10 23:23:20 rivalarrival: down boy :) Jul 10 23:23:37 rivalarrival: you can fake it with a mouse. Jul 10 23:23:56 SpeedEvil: I can fake a torpedo level with a mouse? Jul 10 23:24:09 rivalarrival: Minor problem. Here's one: 2132 Jul 10 23:24:16 rivalarrival: you move the mouse to represent tilt. Jul 10 23:24:56 abraxa_: Thanks. Jul 10 23:25:23 abraxa_ are you any relation to the one the Internet? Jul 10 23:25:26 how do I contact Michael Shiloh? will he be at foo camp? Jul 10 23:25:41 johngay: Are you really gay? Jul 10 23:26:05 hachi: michael@openmoko.org Jul 10 23:26:05 No. That's just my name (= I was born with it. Jul 10 23:26:22 johngay: See. Same response as what I would've said ;) Jul 10 23:26:25 Both my parents were gay too. Jul 10 23:26:28 french name? Jul 10 23:26:35 But my dad is Les Gay. Jul 10 23:26:45 Scotish, actually. Jul 10 23:26:45 johngay: Very progressive! ;) Jul 10 23:27:24 Someone in the family thought it'd be a good idea to drop the 're' from Gayre ??? Jul 10 23:27:48 there was someone in my University whose name was Gaylord Jul 10 23:27:49 How long ago did that happen? Jul 10 23:28:02 I'd love to go back in time and nuke that bas**** Jul 10 23:28:06 haha Jul 10 23:28:09 Before or after someone decided that we homosexual people must be extremely happy? ;) Jul 10 23:28:12 johngay: you could have it changed back, right? Jul 10 23:28:16 oh, michael shiloh lives in san francisco Jul 10 23:28:23 or... might Jul 10 23:28:32 hachi: Does Jul 10 23:28:36 the possibility is enough to give me hope :) Jul 10 23:28:37 Not till I was an adult. Puberty was a bitch. Jul 10 23:29:19 johncylee: Did anyone at school notice the humorous potential of your name? Jul 10 23:29:23 I've filed a class-action suit againt the GLO for defimation of character. We had the name first, after all. Jul 10 23:29:32 * SpeedEvil sighs at failing completion. Jul 10 23:29:46 hehe Jul 10 23:30:26 I've got about 3 hours worth of stand-up on the subject. Jul 10 23:30:49 But my wife doesn't understand why I'm homophobic. Jul 10 23:31:19 hahaha Jul 10 23:31:26 SpeedEvil, why do you keep calling me johncylee??? Jul 10 23:31:38 because he fails at tab completion Jul 10 23:31:50 * Chocky highfives SpeedEvil Jul 10 23:32:00 johngay: because my completion has problems. Namely that I just type, without actually checking completion. Jul 10 23:32:49 Oh. I don't have completion on my client. Jul 10 23:33:05 johngay: What client are you using?!? Jul 10 23:33:16 Ksirc Jul 10 23:34:02 Ohhh! I feel so violated (= Jul 10 23:34:43 does the qtopia port look a lot like the original firmware? Jul 10 23:34:58 hachi: qtopia or asu? :) Jul 10 23:35:02 eep Jul 10 23:35:03 And for both: No :) Jul 10 23:35:18 well, I'm running: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080710/ Jul 10 23:35:21 Do you always probe gay men without warning them, SpeedEvil??? Jul 10 23:35:24 but it looks an awful lot the same Jul 10 23:35:39 johngay: general tab > global options > nick completion Jul 10 23:36:06 and I guess I meant ASU Jul 10 23:37:09 hachi: Yeah, that's ASU :) It's the one with the top bar that expands down when tapped... Jul 10 23:37:20 hurr, will try tappy Jul 10 23:37:37 powerbutton on FF stops to respons after using USB for a while Jul 10 23:37:45 It's kind of your task bar come info panel :) Jul 10 23:38:03 Sorry rival, but I don't have a general tab OR global options OR nick completion. But I'm running 1.3.10 from KDE 3.2.2 Jul 10 23:39:23 It was the bleeding edge when I built this dual Opteron (= Jul 10 23:39:46 Ksirc is not just old, it simply is no more ;) Jul 10 23:39:52 johngay: Well, that's gay. :-) Jul 10 23:40:20 I'm looking at installing artistX soon. Jul 10 23:40:28 leinirAWAY: top bar doesn't expand down Jul 10 23:40:37 * Chocky prepares to go home again with no tracking Jul 10 23:40:55 But I want to see what KDE-4.works looks like. Jul 10 23:40:55 hachi: Hmm... How'd you flash it onto the device? And exactly which image did you flash onto it? Jul 10 23:40:59 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * re4697b9bb3a7 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (factory.py gpsdevice.py helpers.py nmea.py om.py ubx.py): Jul 10 23:40:59 freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Add a GTA02Device which works on GTA02. Jul 10 23:40:59 freesmartphone.org: SetPower method will set the power via odeviced. Jul 10 23:41:21 uImage-2.6.24+git18+9c058ff0d2641df3c36fc3300acb72078d2c41d4-r0-om-gta01.bin Jul 10 23:41:23 johngay: It looks sort of like what you make it look like ;) Jul 10 23:41:33 Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080710-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 10 23:41:42 and I used dfu-util Jul 10 23:41:51 hachi: Ah, now there's your problem - that's not the asu stack :) Jul 10 23:42:02 But I'm waiting till they actually release 4.works, not 4.demo Jul 10 23:42:09 well, which one is the asu stack then? I'm totally confused how you can tell Jul 10 23:42:34 hachi: As you said yourself, it's the qtopia based one... make a wild guess? :) Jul 10 23:42:44 ASU contains the string "qtopia-x11" Jul 10 23:42:59 there are no images in the 1973 folder called 'qtopia-x11' Jul 10 23:43:10 I see them in the freerunner dir, but I have a 1973 Jul 10 23:43:32 hachi: this one? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080710/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080710-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 10 23:43:56 WTF, I clipped ^F and searched the page Jul 10 23:44:09 there is no letter q on the page I'm on Jul 10 23:44:33 there are new files in that directory Jul 10 23:44:34 enough! Jul 10 23:44:38 they didn't exist when I loaded it XD Jul 10 23:44:53 must've compiled just after I loade the dir, sorry bout the trouble Jul 10 23:45:18 Anyone ever heard of ChaCha? (chacha.com) - I work for them from home making $15/hour, google it, it's reputable. Just thought I'd share it. I have invites if anyone wants. It's hard to get hired without one. You get paid via a refillable debit card anytime you want. It's linked a real checking account. It's a real company, you work as an indepent contractor. The job and money is real. Want an invite or to know more? PM me. Jul 10 23:45:44 ehrm... right ;) Jul 10 23:45:44 yay spam. Jul 10 23:45:54 wow, 15 dollars an hour Jul 10 23:46:10 Wow, that's almost worth getting out of bed for in the morning ;) Jul 10 23:46:15 that's, like, almost significantly above minimum wage Jul 10 23:46:17 no thanks, I like my job at Nokia Jul 10 23:46:22 :) Jul 10 23:46:33 I like my web 2.0 job Jul 10 23:46:53 Hehe, i'm at uni for another two years ;) Jul 10 23:47:09 uni schmuni Jul 10 23:47:09 The last year i hope to spend playing with the freerunner full time :) Jul 10 23:47:50 Well, the last year i will be without my student grant... which might potentially be a bit difficult :) Jul 10 23:48:12 * ljp still wonders why they uses usb 1 Jul 10 23:48:20 anyone using the ASU firmware? Jul 10 23:48:29 leinirAWAY: here's your solution! Jul 10 23:48:52 although, tbh, you'd probably make more money and have more fun selling things in World of Warcraft or something. Jul 10 23:48:54 cjb: internship with OpenMoko? ;) Jul 10 23:49:31 does the "april" in ASU refer to last april? Jul 10 23:49:35 ljp: afaik power usage :) usb2 is much heavier :) Jul 10 23:49:53 chillywilly: Hehe, it's called ASU (april/august software update) in some places i've seen ;) Jul 10 23:50:07 ic...;P Jul 10 23:50:09 leinirAWAY: most other phones I have use usb2, so its not that big of drain Jul 10 23:50:22 ljp: They are not host devices :) Jul 10 23:50:43 leinirAWAY: flashing the n810 is _way_ faster than the neo Jul 10 23:51:07 The n801 can't function as USB host, does it? Jul 10 23:51:12 ehrm... "can it" Jul 10 23:51:23 it can afaik Jul 10 23:51:27 the n770 could, at least Jul 10 23:51:43 Right, well, it's a design decision i guess :) Jul 10 23:51:59 okay... trying to load up qtopia now Jul 10 23:52:17 hachi: It's a little dodgy, i'd warn you :) Jul 10 23:52:35 qtopia is not dodgy Jul 10 23:52:37 I think I'd classify my GTA01B_V4 to be a little dodgy too :) Jul 10 23:52:58 I've got a !friend at work who might be interested in that chacha thing (= Jul 10 23:53:00 ljp: The ASU stack is just snapshot-quality :) Jul 10 23:53:08 leinirAWAY: thats not qtopia Jul 10 23:53:11 maybe dodgy x dodgy will become dodgy² Jul 10 23:53:32 ljp: it's a question of knowing what hachi is talking about when he says qtopia - he means ASU ;) Jul 10 23:53:44 ljp: is there a lawyer-approved qtopia image for GTA01 yet? Last time I looked I only saw a Freerunner one. Jul 10 23:54:07 mmontour: am working on one as we speak Jul 10 23:54:30 ok, thanks. Jul 10 23:54:37 ,seen thos Jul 10 23:54:58 !seen thos Jul 10 23:54:58 thos (i=thomas@nano.thos.me.uk) was last seen parting #openmoko 29 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes ago stating "{}". Jul 10 23:55:12 ljp: ah yes, i should really try out tat image, shouldn't i :) Jul 10 23:55:24 The proper qtopia :) Jul 10 23:55:32 well, its not perfect Jul 10 23:56:31 Of course :) Jul 10 23:56:44 but i'm pissing about with the thing anyway, might as well give it a shot :) Jul 10 23:57:07 well, you can make calls and send sms Jul 10 23:58:20 is opie something that could ever be used on the freerunner? Jul 10 23:58:37 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r3681b7f4fd72 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: up EFL to include etk momentum scroll fixes. Jul 10 23:58:37 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r3a7cdd0f37f5 10/packages/initscripts/initscripts_1.0.bb: up initscripts version Jul 10 23:58:41 sure, if yo udont mind being without gsm stuff Jul 10 23:58:54 gsm? Jul 10 23:59:07 I wonder what's stopping gsm working on qtopia Jul 10 23:59:08 that was to ab0oo Jul 10 23:59:16 fixing that seems like it'd be big progress Jul 10 23:59:19 Aah, sorry :) Jul 10 23:59:23 . ok... what would it take to create a gsm app for opie? is opie dbuss compatible? Jul 11 00:00:08 ab0oo: dbus support is not built in opie. opie is based off of qtopia 2. which is ancient Jul 11 00:00:24 what's with all the stuff from CIA-46??? Jul 11 00:00:35 I _really_ liked opie. Jul 11 00:00:38 johngay: bot to show things happening in code repos Jul 11 00:00:58 ab0oo: opie development has not been active the last few years Jul 11 00:01:04 UPS Ship Notification, Tracking Number!!! Jul 11 00:01:13 gmaxwell: yey! order number? Jul 11 00:01:31 ljp: did anything replace it, or did it just dwindle away? Jul 11 00:01:44 doc|work, 1416 Jul 11 00:02:03 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r4c35ceece0ef 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: update illum config Jul 11 00:02:03 grrr, too low! Jul 11 00:02:04 Didn't opie die around the same time they canceled the Andy Griffith show? Jul 11 00:02:05 :) Jul 11 00:02:12 ab0oo: its still worked on for a few bug fixes, but not much Jul 11 00:02:47 ab0oo: but some of the core develoeprs work on OM Jul 11 00:03:12 all those ipaqs and zauruses are dying off.. Jul 11 00:03:14 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_hi_te/tec_verizon_wireless_open_network;_ylt=AsToLSf58ELHtOhrjhWttGMjtBAF Jul 11 00:04:13 another quick question... does the Kernel on the FreeRunner (2007.2) has a specific wiki page? Jul 11 00:04:23 linuxxr: to the NSA? Jul 11 00:04:57 sorry Jul 11 00:05:03 ab0oo: even my 2 year old wont play with them :) Jul 11 00:05:38 makes me sad. IMHO, it was a fantastic UI. Jul 11 00:05:39 got my ups tracking num Jul 11 00:06:04 quick click refresh maybe it left the warehouse Jul 11 00:06:19 I wish I got mine Jul 11 00:06:28 * chillywilly is order no. 3000 Jul 11 00:06:52 lint wats your # Jul 11 00:06:52 ieatlint: what's your order number? Jul 11 00:07:11 no your phonwe # Jul 11 00:07:21 ha Jul 11 00:07:25 shag that, address and eta on parcel? Jul 11 00:08:03 hes refreshing Jul 11 00:08:16 heh Jul 11 00:08:56 at least you have something to refresh ;P Jul 11 00:09:24 whos texting here from a freerunner? Jul 11 00:09:45 just updated the wiki page, #1459 Jul 11 00:09:53 linked to my ups tracking page if anyone has an interest Jul 11 00:10:03 lol Jul 11 00:10:05 doc: What's verison got to do with the No Such Agency??? Jul 11 00:10:06 NO Jul 11 00:10:41 johngay: they were one of the companies who allowed wiretapping Jul 11 00:10:50 ok, home time Jul 11 00:10:56 YAY!!! Jul 11 00:17:17 if the guy who has order #1488 is here, it may interest him to know that it's 5:18pm PDT/GMT-7, so his confirmation email couldn't have come at 5:58pm Jul 11 00:17:58 Yay! 1828 just shipped, should be here 17Jul Jul 11 00:18:11 my email arrived at 4:58pm though... looks like they must have been stacking pallets for ups to pick up or something, and they all entered the system at the same time when the ups truck arrived Jul 11 00:18:31 scheduled delivery tomorrow for me :) Jul 11 00:18:35 Makes sense... Probably done working for the day. Jul 11 00:19:05 woot. tracking email recieved about 20 minutes ago :) scheduled deliver for monday! Jul 11 00:19:37 yep, seems like everyone today got their confirmation email at 4:58pm PDT/GMT-7 Jul 11 00:19:40 ieatlint: yeah, sounds aout right Jul 11 00:19:49 yeah, looks like it Jul 11 00:20:07 bah... Jul 11 00:20:09 nullpuppy, I wish I'd next/secondayed mine.. Mine is scheduled for tuesday and I'll probably be out of town that day. :( Jul 11 00:20:11 ieatlint: yep, me too. 6:58:10 (& 6:58:11... double copy?) Jul 11 00:20:23 rivalarrival: 1828? Jul 11 00:20:31 UPS sent the confirmation email too Jul 11 00:20:31 what a fortuitous discovery: my openembedded toolchain for my gumstix has everything it needs for openmoko development. svn up, bitbake meta-toolchain-openmoko, and I'm poopin' in tall cotton. Jul 11 00:20:31 looks like order numbers aren't order of shipping :o Jul 11 00:20:32 My order number Jul 11 00:20:54 yeah. it's just a lot higher than anyone else that's gotten theirs :p Jul 11 00:21:02 kelvie, more like order numbers don't sort how they are stacked onto pallets and/or scanned into the system Jul 11 00:21:03 they're like lottery tickets ! Jul 11 00:21:06 mine is scheduled for Wednesday next week. I've been waiting a long time for the phone. One more week won't kill me.... I tell myself. Jul 11 00:21:07 i just got a tracking number for order # 1660 ! yay! Jul 11 00:21:08 In other news... the $34 8GB micro sd card I ordered from amazon arrived today. Jul 11 00:21:11 fyi ^ Jul 11 00:21:22 My advice is to threaten to kill unless they give you a tracking number. Jul 11 00:21:27 Seems to have worked for me. Jul 11 00:21:44 threaten to unleash the velociraptors Jul 11 00:21:45 if someone with a higher number got their tracking num, i would still bet you'll get yours... the way it is sorted (by destination) could even affect how fast it is scanned Jul 11 00:21:58 gmaxwell: yeah, i wish i had 2nd day'd too, i just went ground (typical shipping from north cali is 3 days) Jul 11 00:22:04 that's right! i should get a microsd card for this thing. thanks for reminding me Jul 11 00:22:20 rivalarrival, yeah, and if they laugh at a geek committing murder, remind them of hans reiser Jul 11 00:22:22 yea.. Ozzloy, I found 8gb cards on amazon for $34. Jul 11 00:22:23 * chillywilly 2nd day'd bust has not received diddly Jul 11 00:22:27 but* Jul 11 00:22:37 ozzloy: woot.com has 2gb cards yesterday for $6+5 shipping Jul 11 00:22:42 * nullpuppy bought 2 Jul 11 00:22:49 or dealextreme.com for an 8gb card for 40 bucks (free worldwide shipping) Jul 11 00:22:55 but it takes 2 weeks to ship to most places Jul 11 00:22:58 chillywilly: you're around 3k in order number though right? Jul 11 00:23:09 nullpuppy: yes :) Jul 11 00:23:17 HOLY JESUS HALLELUJAH a tracking number!! Jul 11 00:23:27 nullpuppy: i'm probly gonna go gmaxwell's route. Jul 11 00:23:32 says the guy who went and picked up his order? Jul 11 00:23:55 my order was 3day (saying in hopes that it's useful to someone in the channel) Jul 11 00:23:56 chillywilly: hehe, alright ;) good luck :) Jul 11 00:24:19 nullpuppy: thanks, I appreciate the support Jul 11 00:24:21 ;P Jul 11 00:24:26 absolutely :) Jul 11 00:24:30 come on you mofos... Jul 11 00:24:37 ozzloy, mine was too.. (ground from california to me is not quick .. ;) ) Jul 11 00:24:40 ship! ship! ship! Jul 11 00:24:42 did they give shipping priority to people who paid for different shipping speeds? Jul 11 00:25:04 ab0oo: Except that the OM images are built from a different repository, so you won't be able to build it with the OE image you already have. Jul 11 00:25:11 ozzloy, it's possible UPS did Jul 11 00:25:13 like grouping all the 2day orders together and shipping them first Jul 11 00:25:18 UPS is the one sending out the confirmation emails Jul 11 00:25:23 any Canadians get theirs? :p Jul 11 00:25:35 ahh I hate this wiki syntax :( *just need to vent my anger* ;) Jul 11 00:25:37 i thought canada was a myth Jul 11 00:25:38 mwester: I'm not sure I have the correct vocabulary to describe how much that sucks. Jul 11 00:25:58 kelvie_work: jk Jul 11 00:26:05 It sucked worse when every OE commit seemed to break OM. Jul 11 00:26:18 * edistar already has his FR ;) Jul 11 00:26:25 so om branched oe? Jul 11 00:26:37 * ieatlint mugs edistar Jul 11 00:26:56 Yep. They merge back and forth at various points in development. Jul 11 00:26:59 right... so far i'm most impressed with the qtopia image (not ASU, qtopia proper), it runs really smoothly :) Jul 11 00:27:03 mmm, lint Jul 11 00:27:08 and on that note, bedtime :) Jul 11 00:27:25 where is qtopia proper? Jul 11 00:27:33 * ab0oo shudders at the OE/OM issues Jul 11 00:27:39 so many flippin firmwares...it's all so confusing Jul 11 00:27:53 oh, and newegg is stilling 8gb micro sdhc for $40 plus $7 for 3 biz day shipping (transcend or a-data, $55 for sandisk) Jul 11 00:27:59 chillywilly: no qtopia proper atm Jul 11 00:28:04 does the W.E. phone people run their own build on the FR? Jul 11 00:28:21 and newegg has the best customer service of any computer retailed i've ever dealt with... Jul 11 00:28:29 I wonder if I should but an SD card Jul 11 00:28:32 like now Jul 11 00:28:36 has anyone determined that the W.E. phone is anything more than vapourware at the moment? Jul 11 00:28:51 rwhitby: The hardware exists. Jul 11 00:28:54 what's WE? Jul 11 00:28:59 Subtotal of Items: $33.45 Jul 11 00:28:59 Shipping & Handling: $6.99 Jul 11 00:28:59 ------ Jul 11 00:28:59 Total for this Order: $40.44 Jul 11 00:28:59 Jul 11 00:29:00 Shipping estimate for these items: July 7, 2008 - July 8, 2008 Jul 11 00:29:02 1 "SanDisk 8GB microSDHC Card (SDSDQ-8192, Bulk Package)" Jul 11 00:29:02 bricode: of course, it's just a FR. Jul 11 00:29:04 $33.45 Jul 11 00:29:10 but hardware is only half what they are selling Jul 11 00:29:32 I purport the software to do all the things they list on their site is vapourware. Jul 11 00:29:33 rwhitby: True. We'll be shipping next week. Waiting on customs. Jul 11 00:29:47 * chillywilly checks out newegg Jul 11 00:29:50 But the gizmondo hardware existed too. Jul 11 00:29:54 bricode: you're from W.E. ? Jul 11 00:30:03 rwhitby: Yes. Jul 11 00:30:13 oh, what software stack are you running? Jul 11 00:30:28 a derivative of one of the OM or OE builds, or a home-grown? Jul 11 00:30:42 anyone have any experience with those zagg invisibleshield things? ... i'm wondering if it's worthwhile Jul 11 00:30:44 rwhitby: We are shipping the Openmoko stack until Android is released. Jul 11 00:31:23 bricode: ok, cool. Nothing wrong with marketing a future set of features, as long as those buying from you know exactly what the current set of features is .. Jul 11 00:31:47 Android on the FR will be a nice device. Hope you guys are successful. Jul 11 00:31:56 wth is "the" openmoko stack...there's at least 3 stacks that I know of ;) Jul 11 00:32:02 mayby tomorrow they will has more boxes Jul 11 00:32:14 bricode: are you guys also reselling debug boards, or just the phones? Jul 11 00:33:07 rwhitby: I can't really comment on Android, but can say that we have been working with Google in some capacity. Jul 11 00:33:12 can u buy all the spare parts for the freerunner in the future? Jul 11 00:33:13 bricode: I presume you don't have advance access to Android source code yet, just the open source Goldfish kernel code. Correct? Jul 11 00:33:24 (oh, maybe you do then) Jul 11 00:33:39 understood that you probably can't answer that then :-) Jul 11 00:34:05 mmontour: We're looking at possibly stocking the debug boards. Jul 11 00:34:16 i work with google in some capacity too.. as a search engine! Jul 11 00:34:18 The last thing I heard was, that it will take quite some time for the android stack to run on the moko. At least until the source is released there won't be a real chance because of the arm4 arm5 incompatabilities. Jul 11 00:34:23 searching rfor good openmoko code for android? Jul 11 00:34:39 mmontour: Unless you're doing something *really* funky, you probably won't need it. Jul 11 00:34:51 GAH. 45 minutes wasted going back and forth with our QA people, just to find out they're 200 revisions behind what I've got checked into revision control. Jul 11 00:34:52 ljp: I do paid work for Google - they send me money for displaying their ads :-) Jul 11 00:34:58 isn't OE based on debian? Jul 11 00:35:31 jakob__: the incompatibilities are really at the binary level - once you have source they should be able to be overcome Jul 11 00:35:35 jakob__: That is correct. The problem lies in the fact that the current Android stuff is compiled for Armv5 instructions plus thumb extensions. It's the thumb extensions that currently prevent it from running on the FR. Jul 11 00:36:02 bricode: you've changed my perception of the W.E. effort now - thanks for the concrete information. Jul 11 00:36:23 rwhitby: We want to see the phone be a success, and are working towards that. Jul 11 00:36:24 mmontour: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 Jul 11 00:36:34 * ab0oo repeats the earlier question: "What is W.E." Jul 11 00:36:36 bricode: yeah thats what I heard. Therefore there will be no chance of running it, before the sources are released and it can be compiled for armv4 Jul 11 00:36:38 See? Not everyone at google is evil, just Pitr (= Jul 11 00:36:56 yes, what is "W.E"? Jul 11 00:37:10 rwhitby: We also want to lower the barrier for people to acquire these phones. Those with the time and determination can refer people for free Google Apps to earn credit towards a phone. Jul 11 00:37:12 http://www.koolu.com Jul 11 00:37:17 WorksEverywhere. Jul 11 00:37:30 The hardware for running Adroid on. Jul 11 00:37:40 bricode: so you guys have a working skype implementation on the FR? http://koolu.com/WE-Phone/Skype-Service.html Jul 11 00:37:40 anyone here from the UK? Jul 11 00:38:03 ›Ys. Jul 11 00:38:05 Yes Jul 11 00:38:10 bricode: I like to do funky things that require a debug board :) Jul 11 00:38:23 mmontour: Fair enough. Jul 11 00:38:44 do you have an OM device? Jul 11 00:39:00 ahh finally this accelerometer article is finished and saved in the wiki. I am going to sleep now :) cu tomorrow guys Jul 11 00:39:03 weatherhead: 1973 Jul 11 00:39:14 jakob__: technical:accelerometer - read? Jul 11 00:39:15 rwhitby: No, but we are working on a similar VoIP service. Beyond that, I can't really comment. Jul 11 00:39:25 SpeedEvil: are you planning to get the freerunner? Jul 11 00:39:33 qtopia had voip... Jul 11 00:39:35 weatherhead: I can't at this time - no# Jul 11 00:39:35 What is the Need for the debug board??? Jul 11 00:39:39 $ Jul 11 00:39:43 johncylee: none Jul 11 00:39:46 bricode: So http://koolu.com/WE-Phone/Skype-Service.html is a bit misleading isn't it? Jul 11 00:39:49 johngay: none Jul 11 00:40:01 johngay: you don't need it as a normal user basically. Jul 11 00:40:04 SpeedEvil: I just wrote a little article about howto access the accel. data: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_data_retrieval Jul 11 00:40:05 (it clearly says "Skype" and is under the W.E. area) Jul 11 00:40:08 johngay: you can't even brick it. Jul 11 00:40:16 jakob__: ah Jul 11 00:40:18 there's some pretty cheap 8GB SD cards on newegg.com Jul 11 00:40:25 jakob__: added it to the accelerometer category? Jul 11 00:40:26 debug board is needed ONLY if you want to mess with the NOR Jul 11 00:40:35 SpeedEvil: sure Jul 11 00:40:37 and you really don't need to do that, so... Jul 11 00:40:42 * retracile_ ordered the debug board out of principle ;) Jul 11 00:40:45 rwhitby: Perhaps it is filed under the wrong section of the website. Jul 11 00:40:45 so what is the deal with the freerunner then? What stack is preinstalled on it when it ships Jul 11 00:40:53 chillywilly, remember.. microsd not sd. Jul 11 00:41:06 So, you only need the debug board if you want to brick your FreeRunner then, right? Jul 11 00:41:08 rwhitby: Looking at it, you make a good point. Jul 11 00:41:14 ok Jul 11 00:41:16 johngay: basically Jul 11 00:41:28 johngay: or if you need to do JTAG debugging Jul 11 00:41:39 yeah Jul 11 00:41:50 Which involves bricking your phone (= Jul 11 00:41:51 Well, the serial console can be useful too (real serial, not USB) Jul 11 00:41:54 jakob__: is the second image meant to be Accelerometer_orientation2.png ? Jul 11 00:42:04 johngay: pretty much :) Jul 11 00:42:10 bricode: the rest of the site looks good now - last time I looked (a number of months ago) it was short of facts, but that has now been corrected all except for that skype page Jul 11 00:42:25 zash: hmm you are right I will change it :) Jul 11 00:42:32 :D Jul 11 00:42:33 rwhitby: You're right in that it's more applicable to the W.E. Appliance at the moment. Jul 11 00:42:43 I want a W.E. phone with the virtual keyboard (= Jul 11 00:43:08 zash: fixed :) thanks for the info Jul 11 00:43:22 but now I really need to get some sleep :) gn8 all Jul 11 00:43:30 johngay: It's very close. The virtual keyboard runs under linux as a bluetooth device. Jul 11 00:43:32 nite, jakob Jul 11 00:43:41 bricode: the front page also says "The W.E. Phone allows you the freedom to use the cellular carrier of your choice for both phone and data as well as the option of accessing the Internet from WiFi networks, which will also enable you to place phone calls using VoIP services such as Skype." Jul 11 00:43:41 jakob__: well written wiki article. thanks. Jul 11 00:44:03 johngay: just needs some configuration foo. Jul 11 00:44:19 So far, I can only find BT and USB virtual keyboards for >$175 Jul 11 00:44:38 bricode: "such as Skype" when referring to non-Skype services looses you credibility Jul 11 00:44:42 johngay: yes, they are pretty pricey at the moment. Jul 11 00:45:01 ljp: thanks for the image. I've downloaded it but I won't have time to test it until tomorrow. Jul 11 00:45:27 rwhitby: I would generally agree, except that for the general public, it's difficult for people to understand what VoIP is. Jul 11 00:46:11 rwhitby: We're looking to bridge from the extremely technically inclined to a more average end user. Jul 11 00:46:13 bricode: that is true. Perhaps you need an asterisk and a footnote (* VoIP services like Skype does not actually include Skype proprietary protocols.) Jul 11 00:46:34 rwhitby: Duly noted. Thank you. Jul 11 00:47:05 FINALLY got my UPS email Jul 11 00:47:18 bricode: especially when the Skpe word hyperlinks to that other page :-) Jul 11 00:47:30 sitwon: woot! did you update the wiki page? Jul 11 00:47:35 and what number? Jul 11 00:47:52 nullpuppy: yes, 1669 Jul 11 00:48:15 awesome :) Jul 11 00:49:39 damn, I wish I didn't have to be at the office tomorrow or I'd totally work from home so I could wait for it Jul 11 00:49:52 :) Jul 11 00:49:59 i have to wait until monday :/ Jul 11 00:50:05 thankfully have monday off from work though Jul 11 00:50:29 I'm working Monday so that I can get Friday off (for The Last HOPE in NY) Jul 11 00:51:02 bricode: thx for taking the comments on board. I'll be able to talk about you guys in a positive tone now :-) Jul 11 00:51:16 blah... Jul 11 00:51:32 rwhitby: We do some things to see what gets attention and what doesn't. Jul 11 00:51:33 sitwon: are you bringing a freerunner? Jul 11 00:51:43 wastrel: of course Jul 11 00:51:58 rwhitby: They say that the worst thing in marketing is not that bad things are being said about you, but rather nothing is being said at all. Jul 11 00:52:00 sitwon: awesome! I wish i could go to HOPE :/ Jul 11 00:52:08 stuck out on the wrong coast though... Jul 11 00:52:13 i wanna seeeeeeee Jul 11 00:52:17 bricode: yeah, that's true. :-) Jul 11 00:52:23 i'mma be out of town tho sigh Jul 11 00:53:09 nullpuppy: I know the feeling, I really wanted to back to DefCon this year Jul 11 00:53:38 i'll repeat my request for a nyc area moko dev to talk at nylug Jul 11 00:54:45 does anyone have a source for a USB mini-b to A female adapter, so I can hook a USB client up to the FR? Jul 11 00:54:51 for example, a USB keyboard. Jul 11 00:54:58 Yep Jul 11 00:55:26 Many retail stores seem not to carry them, but online, they appear to be plentiful :) Jul 11 00:57:42 sitwon: yeah, DefCon would be awesome too. Haven't been back since.. 11? something like that. Jul 11 00:59:26 Dave: indeed, you are correct. google was my friend, after all. Jul 11 00:59:34 :) Jul 11 00:59:35 nullpuppy: a buddy of mine is giving a talk at defcon Jul 11 00:59:38 Yeah I bought some recently ;) Jul 11 00:59:49 ozzloy: awesome ;) what on? Jul 11 01:00:06 nullpuppy: good question. something security related. i'll ask Jul 11 01:00:14 Has the FR been verified to work with 8GB microsSDHC cards? I only saw a reference to 4GB... Jul 11 01:01:03 retractile: yes, see the msg from Ian Douglas on the community ML Jul 11 01:01:41 In principle any compliant SDHC should work Jul 11 01:01:46 Dave, is there something magical needed to "Tell" the FR that it's a USB master, not slave, or does it auto-detect? Jul 11 01:02:02 it should? I think :x Jul 11 01:02:07 Don't quote me on it, though :D Jul 11 01:02:12 ozzloy: awesome ;) Jul 11 01:02:16 alright, gotta go, bbl... Jul 11 01:02:18 It's 'just' a dumb unit that's talking to the SD. Jul 11 01:02:32 woot, just got tracking number Jul 11 01:02:34 #1827 Jul 11 01:02:34 It doesn't have any smarts to get it wrong - if it's wrong, it's software. Jul 11 01:02:37 s/retractile/retracile/ Jul 11 01:02:38 mmontour meant: retracile: yes, see the msg from Ian Douglas on the community ML Jul 11 01:02:44 nullpuppy: he says he can't tell more, software's not done yet Jul 11 01:02:53 hehe, alright Jul 11 01:02:57 nullpuppy: "so much awesome" Jul 11 01:03:26 Dave: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_USB_host I'm thinking that might be the same for the GTA02 Jul 11 01:03:27 sounds like a defcon thing to say Jul 11 01:03:51 Similar to that ab0oo: but FR has power Jul 11 01:03:55 mmontour: thanks, I'd missed that scanning the archives. Jul 11 01:04:02 I would assume so :) Jul 11 01:04:05 powar! Jul 11 01:04:34 I like the description of the three-headed cable. Jul 11 01:04:49 I'll build one of those tonight Jul 11 01:05:37 * mmontour pokes Dave with a stick to remind him to put his BT headset info onto the wiki Jul 11 01:06:03 ljp: wow, the "official" qtopia build is gorgeous Jul 11 01:06:46 ab0oo: shame it doesn't let you make calls :_ Jul 11 01:07:07 hai gueyz, wuts goin on in dis thrad/!?1/ Jul 11 01:07:12 <_<; Jul 11 01:07:34 *Ahem* Anyhoo, what's this about something not letting you make calls? Jul 11 01:08:28 there's only one software stack that lets you actually make calls reliably, and it's not the pretty qtopia one Jul 11 01:08:42 Yes you mean. ;D Jul 11 01:08:43 cjb: crap, you're rught. Jul 11 01:08:44 *Yet Jul 11 01:08:54 I mean, I can MAKE calls, but there's no audio Jul 11 01:08:59 Haha. Jul 11 01:08:59 o_o Jul 11 01:09:18 That's buggered up, but it isn't a stable phone after all. Jul 11 01:09:30 cjb: what do you mean it doesnt let you make calls Jul 11 01:09:42 By the by, anyone know what order number (In the thousands) we're at now, shipping wise? Jul 11 01:10:10 ljp: like ab0oo said. Jul 11 01:10:22 Jacen: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 11 01:10:27 3032 Jul 11 01:10:44 Oh, kinky. Thanks for the link. Jul 11 01:10:51 cjb: ln -s /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios /etc/alsa Jul 11 01:11:00 ljp: I just called my landline from my freshly flashed qtopia "official" image, and I got no receive or transmit audio. Jul 11 01:11:24 ab0oo: ^^^ Jul 11 01:11:32 is there a web page or a doc for that, ljp, or just knowing the right person? Jul 11 01:12:01 cool. Is there anything else stopping qtopia from functioning as a phone? Jul 11 01:12:09 I think there was some gsmd problem? Jul 11 01:12:23 qtopia doesnt use gsmd Jul 11 01:12:33 oh. how does it work? Jul 11 01:12:46 ab0oo: I am the right person. am updating the images in the next minutes Jul 11 01:13:02 cjb: qtopia uses its own stuff Jul 11 01:13:03 is it worth the upgrade from what I just flashed? Jul 11 01:13:31 the only change would be to fix the audiohardware plugin. the quickfix is that ln -s line Jul 11 01:13:32 dumb question. If I didn't like the bleeding edge, I wouldn't be using a freerunner Jul 11 01:13:41 mmkay, then. Jul 11 01:13:56 ljp: Is the qtopia image completely OpenSource, or are there proprietary bits in it? (And if the latter, to what extent?) Jul 11 01:13:59 I was going to put it on the wiki, but I'll let you do your magic. Jul 11 01:14:01 ljp: okay. any idea if the stack works well other than that? Jul 11 01:14:40 this is the image linked from qtopia.net a little earlier? Jul 11 01:14:58 yes Jul 11 01:15:35 cool Jul 11 01:16:22 if I could have any more children, I'd name the next boy "Lorn" Jul 11 01:17:09 ab0oo: as a middle name? So the first could be "Fore" ? Jul 11 01:17:54 I was thinking of my new Qtopia hero, but that would work, too. Problem is, in middle school someone would give him the new middle name of "Skin", and that would be a wreck. Jul 11 01:18:02 I was gonna name my son Mortimer. Jul 11 01:18:41 Ima. Jul 11 01:18:49 Or Ura. Jul 11 01:18:56 Then he would be Mor Gay then his Grandfather who's Les Gay Jul 11 01:18:57 Ima Evil? Jul 11 01:19:20 * cjb was thinking of Crystal. Jul 11 01:19:36 Crystal has been somewhat devalued. Jul 11 01:19:47 Funny, I named my Daughter Irene Mary Jul 11 01:19:50 Tip - when picking a girls name. Jul 11 01:19:55 google-image search with safeseach off. Jul 11 01:19:57 SpeedEvil: see my last name :) Jul 11 01:20:11 haha Jul 11 01:20:26 my wife wanted to name our potential-daughter Zoe Jul 11 01:20:40 and if you google Zoe Ball with safesearch off, you'll see why I don't want to Jul 11 01:20:42 Shiny, with middle name Disco Jul 11 01:21:18 Hmm. Jul 11 01:21:26 Margeret Octavia? Jul 11 01:22:33 I wonder what the cute shortened version of Octavia is Jul 11 01:22:37 "Octy"? Jul 11 01:22:47 (Madge 8) Jul 11 01:23:00 haha Jul 11 01:24:07 my daughter's name is Emily Jul 11 01:25:38 :o Jul 11 01:26:13 Brian Kerr, former manager of the Irish Football team named his son Wayne. Jul 11 01:26:43 guy's got guts. Jul 11 01:26:52 Genevieve can be shortened to Gene, that would work Jul 11 01:27:17 I was on a ship with a guy named John Bush who married a woman named Rose. Jul 11 01:27:27 * cjb knew a Star Plant. Jul 11 01:27:32 So what exactly are we doing tonight? Naming cjb's daughter? Jul 11 01:27:36 He named his son Harry. Jul 11 01:27:38 (she married into the surname) Jul 11 01:27:44 Dave: I'm really not sure Jul 11 01:27:44 cjb: that is funny Jul 11 01:28:14 what's the diff between the NAND and NOR flash? Jul 11 01:28:27 chillywilly: NAND is the 128M main flash Jul 11 01:28:37 I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that. Jul 11 01:28:51 chillywilly: NORis the 2M? flash you can only write with the ebug board that's an emergency recovery uboot Jul 11 01:29:26 ok Jul 11 01:29:42 I purchasd a debug board as well... Jul 11 01:29:52 should be loads of fun Jul 11 01:30:00 * retracile agrees Jul 11 01:30:13 Enough comedy from me. It's time for bed. I'll be here all week (= Jul 11 01:30:38 Good nite and you've been a great audience! Jul 11 01:31:11 cjb: Roland Jul 11 01:32:27 cjb: for a boy: Buck. :) Jul 11 01:32:40 Buckminster Jul 11 01:33:13 SpeedEvil: I was going for the "Bucky" nickname Jul 11 01:33:31 yeah, heard that one before :) Jul 11 01:33:50 cjb: yeah, figured Jul 11 01:33:51 Loofa Jul 11 01:35:35 cjb: Bet she'll be a beautiful bouncing baby. ;) Jul 11 01:36:27 retracile: *groan* Jul 11 01:36:43 someone joked my wife should get pregnant so that she can be a Ball Bearing. Jul 11 01:36:51 cjb: heh. I expected you'd heard that that one before. Jul 11 01:36:54 ha! Jul 11 01:37:18 ... and "round as" too, I'm sure. Jul 11 01:38:06 retracile: given that no-one's actually pregnant yet, we've missed the brunt of the jokes so far :) Jul 11 01:39:12 cjb: Well, best of luck. I have one of each. It's a blast. :) Jul 11 01:39:40 :) Jul 11 01:40:01 Just keep practicing (= Jul 11 01:40:30 Do we have a wiki page yet on Bluetooth for the Freerunner? Jul 11 01:40:38 ah, not gonna be for another year or so. I'm 26. Jul 11 01:40:53 Dave: I think it's mostly identical. Jul 11 01:41:17 cjb: famous last words. ;P Jul 11 01:41:23 Dave: the bluetooth on file may be different. Jul 11 01:41:49 bluetooth system status? Jul 11 01:42:00 the files are different Jul 11 01:42:10 and has there really been -no- progress in that department? Jul 11 01:42:23 how to change timezone? Jul 11 01:42:42 exec tzselect have some problem Jul 11 01:43:28 cjb: You saying your not gonna practice for another year or two? Jul 11 01:43:28 /etc/localtime? Jul 11 01:43:40 johngay: steady on :) Jul 11 01:43:40 cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/CST6CDT /etc/localtime? Jul 11 01:44:07 killall humans Jul 11 01:44:16 Use a sym link, ChandleWEi Jul 11 01:44:18 ChandleWEi: I just made a wiki update about timezones Jul 11 01:44:22 You had me worried for a minute there. Jul 11 01:44:27 :P Jul 11 01:44:30 use a symlink is the right answer Jul 11 01:44:41 it's some long and complicated procedure involving ntp/ntpd Jul 11 01:44:45 ;) Jul 11 01:44:47 ab)oo: where I can get it ? Jul 11 01:44:47 yeah that too Jul 11 01:45:05 i like the idea of having time synced only when wifi is up Jul 11 01:45:26 otherwise i'm not gonna waste my expensive GPRS data transfers Jul 11 01:46:10 i hear the moko sucks at keeping accurate time without ntp Jul 11 01:46:19 is this true? Jul 11 01:46:34 Dave: I'm just rdate to sync my time Jul 11 01:48:43 What? Jul 11 01:48:53 You just use rdate? well, goody for you. Jul 11 01:49:47 Dave: where I can get more information about openmoko's timezone Jul 11 01:50:30 Hmm? Jul 11 01:51:31 date +%Z? although I'm not so sure that's what you wanted :D Jul 11 01:51:47 kd8ikt: Not afaik Jul 11 01:52:11 kd8ikt: but it does lose the time often because you take the battery out for too long Jul 11 01:52:19 you only need timezone Jul 11 01:52:19 GPS gives you accurate time Jul 11 01:52:21 right Jul 11 01:52:23 yes Jul 11 01:52:27 don't know about the accuracy of the timekeeping Jul 11 01:52:28 which made me think it's somewhat pointless Jul 11 01:52:52 bah, UTC :p Jul 11 01:53:16 * dontknow sets it in /etc/profile Jul 11 01:53:18 Speedevil, and where are the state files on the gta02? Jul 11 01:53:25 I just would change UTC to CST Jul 11 01:53:31 jo Jul 11 01:53:31 heh, yeah Jul 11 01:54:50 but I don't know how to ,tzselect can't use and under /usr/share/zoneinfo/ not my city Jul 11 01:55:05 o.O Jul 11 01:55:09 who bought the first freerunner in the usa Jul 11 01:55:33 WE did (here) Jul 11 01:55:46 Unless you're talking people who got an order number. Jul 11 01:55:51 like individuals Jul 11 01:55:53 did the orders start at 1000? Jul 11 01:55:53 * Dave hides Jul 11 01:56:11 o? Jul 11 01:56:12 linuxxr, but, who will buy the millionth freerunner? :D Jul 11 01:56:22 (provided there will even be one) Jul 11 01:56:24 The order numbers are not 1:1 with the orders Jul 11 01:56:29 how many so far? Jul 11 01:56:35 linuxxr: I think so. Order 1367 arrived today. Jul 11 01:56:38 there are several per order., and some holes in the sequence. Jul 11 01:56:38 worldwide Jul 11 01:57:33 did it start with 0 Jul 11 01:57:40 or 1000 Jul 11 01:57:44 I'd guess 1.5K might be a reasonable guess. Jul 11 01:57:59 The confirmation numbers will not - AIUI - increment with foreign orders. Jul 11 01:58:08 right Jul 11 01:58:26 My stupid graph implies 740 or so. Jul 11 01:58:49 From the US store Jul 11 01:58:57 SPeedEvil: Do 10-packs count as 1 or 10 on your graph? Jul 11 01:59:41 rtp: it seems that the software is smart enough to add them up Jul 11 01:59:43 12 left Jul 11 02:00:21 rtp: butg I may be completely off, for some reason I don't understand. Jul 11 02:00:36 proly got another pallet of them Jul 11 02:00:50 Why don't I have bluetooth state files? :p Jul 11 02:03:53 Another week. Almost wish I had paid for the faster shipping. Jul 11 02:04:00 ahhhh Jul 11 02:04:07 what for Jul 11 02:04:29 since they are going slow anyways Jul 11 02:04:36 * retracile hopes UPS will deliver earlier than they claim Jul 11 02:04:57 Highly unlikely. Jul 11 02:04:59 If anything, later. Jul 11 02:05:16 Why do you say that? Jul 11 02:05:22 With UPS the only thing you hope for is that no one opened, crushed, or stepped in your box :) Jul 11 02:05:24 i need a track # Jul 11 02:05:29 :) Jul 11 02:05:40 fedex loses stuff, and then refused to fix their problems Jul 11 02:05:42 ups > fedex Jul 11 02:05:58 linuxxr: I've got one, would you like to share? Jul 11 02:06:00 their people take it Jul 11 02:06:06 lol Jul 11 02:06:17 fedex is the best. Jul 11 02:06:25 though dhl has gotten good over the years. Jul 11 02:06:40 No fair hacking UPS, diverting my shipment... Jul 11 02:06:50 hah Jul 11 02:06:51 mines on the slo boat Jul 11 02:06:57 TOOT Jul 11 02:07:10 haha so now you guys are jacking a boat? hah. Jul 11 02:08:21 Shh... Not so loud. Jul 11 02:08:26 off the coase of somolia wanna come? Jul 11 02:09:01 nah Jul 11 02:09:06 too volatile over there. Jul 11 02:09:11 I'll wait until they get here Jul 11 02:09:22 then just accuse them of terrorism again, and take their loot :p Jul 11 02:09:28 then hac em Jul 11 02:09:31 winnar :p Jul 11 02:09:31 Anyone have 2007.2 installed on a gta01? Jul 11 02:09:46 If so, can you send me the output of "opkg list_installed"? Jul 11 02:13:42 has anyone tried the qtopia image on the freerunner? Jul 11 02:14:16 wurp2|truly_away: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080710/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080710-om-gta01-testlab/installed-packages.txt ;) Jul 11 02:19:06 Any thoughts on using the openmoko with the sensors in a wii remote? Jul 11 02:19:55 "opkg install gpsd" fails on my new Freerunner, even after an "opkg update". Does anyone know what must be done to install gpsd on a Freerunner? Jul 11 02:20:17 rtm: sure it's not there? Jul 11 02:20:35 ead: No it won't. Jul 11 02:20:37 oops Jul 11 02:20:42 SpeedEvil? Is it preloaded? It wasn't on the neo1973... Jul 11 02:20:57 rtm: signature download warnings are not failures Jul 11 02:21:32 I got "Cannot find package gpsd." Jul 11 02:24:07 rtm: Heh, that's probably a problem :-) Jul 11 02:24:24 I could hardly agree more. Jul 11 02:24:28 .ScaredyCat's repository will fix it Jul 11 02:32:48 Can the FR take advantage of the speed of a class 6 microSDHC card? Jul 11 02:34:22 I'm inclined to go with a 4GB card if it means faster data transfers than the 8GB. Jul 11 02:34:25 It can go at a theoretical maximum - if it's only limited by the bus - of 7 megabytes/sec Jul 11 02:34:43 GTA01 goes at 3M/s with a card which will do 12M/s in a readder Jul 11 02:35:52 so what number are we up to on shipments? Jul 11 02:36:23 Over 9000! Jul 11 02:36:24 SpeedEvil: Sounds like it would definitely be worth eschewing the class 2's for the class 4 cards. Jul 11 02:36:38 retracile: I have no idea of the real speed on FR Jul 11 02:36:39 SpeedEvil: by 9000 you mean like 1500? :P Jul 11 02:36:45 * SpeedEvil pokes everyone with a FR. Jul 11 02:37:04 sontek: I dunno. I think there was a page. Jul 11 02:37:22 SpeedEvil: it's a useful data point none-the-less. Jul 11 02:37:27 I was all excited and paid for extra shipping to make sure I got it fast, and then found it it wasn't going to ship for like a week :P Jul 11 02:37:44 talk about a kick in the balls Jul 11 02:37:48 harshed my mellow! Jul 11 02:37:52 SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F claims highest order is 3032 Jul 11 02:37:59 lowest order is 1068 Jul 11 02:38:16 oh, sontek was asking about shipments Jul 11 02:38:19 Mine is 3030 and I didn't get a confirmation yet Jul 11 02:38:24 so they aren't that high Jul 11 02:38:45 looks like shipping is sojewhere around 1900-2200 Jul 11 02:38:55 my 1827 shipped late today Jul 11 02:39:18 * retracile hits refresh on the ups site Jul 11 02:39:46 So they are doing around 200 a day? Jul 11 02:39:49 retracile: I saw that it was gonna take 7 days and decided to stop watching the tracking Jul 11 02:39:54 sontek: there may have been teething pains Jul 11 02:40:03 Looks like http://www.gemmagarrett.com/images/gallery/gemma3.jpg got 2% of the vote - 519 votes - 20 votes behind the national front. Jul 11 02:40:04 I think they'll get faster at it Jul 11 02:40:12 oops. Jul 11 02:40:19 mischan - not very worksafe image. Jul 11 02:40:31 Was posting about todays bielection in the UK. Jul 11 02:40:56 bielection not worksafe? Jul 11 02:41:01 yeah, i'm in no rush now :) It was just a spur of the moment "omgz I'm gonna get a moko! *pays to have it in 2 days*" Jul 11 02:41:22 mwester: she - the picture - was a candidate for the Miss Great Britain party. Jul 11 02:41:28 * cjb didn't realize there was such a difference between ground and 2day Jul 11 02:41:53 ground is slow :P Jul 11 02:44:40 * mwester wishes American elections had more interesting parties, too. :D Jul 11 02:45:41 * sontek wishes we'd choose good presidents when we had elections Jul 11 02:45:50 once we get the voting right, i'll start wishing for hotties Jul 11 02:46:26 This one was the record number of candidates. Jul 11 02:46:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haltemprice_and_Howden_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29 Jul 11 02:47:16 s/was/had/ Jul 11 02:49:41 heh, i'm building a emu image now... whoever set up the smp support did it such that it's running wget in parallel Jul 11 02:54:20 http://digg.com/linux_unix/5_real_reasons_to_avoid_iPhone_3G for anyone who has a digg account and would like to cast a vote for the freerunner :) Jul 11 02:55:19 hmm.. anyone from Canada get their shipment notification yet? Jul 11 02:55:45 kelvie: me Jul 11 02:55:57 LetoTo: what was your order number? Jul 11 02:55:59 It's stuck in San Jose, will only get here in 6 days :( Jul 11 02:56:01 1344 Jul 11 02:56:03 ah Jul 11 02:56:18 mine hasn't come yet :/ seems like everyone around me has theirs already Jul 11 02:56:23 I'm 1724 though Jul 11 02:56:32 and paid for the.. 65 dollar shipping Jul 11 02:56:37 kelvie around you in canada? Jul 11 02:56:45 in order # :p Jul 11 02:56:50 i picked teh default, since all options involved getting raped by UPS Jul 11 02:57:03 you pay the same for the 15 dollar one Jul 11 02:57:11 they'll tack on a brokerage fee of ~ 50 dollars if you go by ground Jul 11 02:57:19 it'll just get up here slower Jul 11 02:57:34 right. Jul 11 02:57:51 though they'll also ding us for import duty right? Jul 11 02:57:59 I've heard from someone that there's no duty Jul 11 02:58:08 we'll still have to pay GST (and PST/HST where applicable) Jul 11 02:58:22 + brokerage if by ground **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 11 02:59:56 2008