**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 14 02:59:56 2008 Jul 14 03:00:00 Today is Setting Orange, the 49th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3174 Jul 14 03:00:25 Setting Orange? Jul 14 03:00:54 Is that any relation to Thursday? Jul 14 03:02:00 somebody tries *BSD on FR allready? Jul 14 03:03:29 Most of us are still waiting on it... The only people who have it now are the core developers, the people who paid a fortune to have it shipped next-day, and the people in the greater Sunnyvale, CA area. Jul 14 03:03:53 Everyone else is getting it sometime this week. Jul 14 03:03:55 And europeans. Jul 14 03:04:05 Yeah, Fuck europe. Jul 14 03:04:17 (I thought they were getting it on the 25th?) Jul 14 03:06:54 any recommendations for a data plan in the US ? Jul 14 03:07:24 heh Jul 14 03:07:30 all expensive :p Jul 14 03:07:32 i am european :p Jul 14 03:09:30 just looking around it seems that there are many for under 50$/m which seems ok to me, i've just never had one so i'm not sure Jul 14 03:09:43 is that about what you've seen Chocky? Jul 14 03:10:02 that's really all there is Jul 14 03:10:40 haha Jul 14 03:11:12 slackwares anniv. is wednesday Jul 14 03:11:20 there's more than one? Jul 14 03:12:26 niklauz: T-mobile seems to be offering unlimited GPRS for $20. Jul 14 03:12:38 hum. Jul 14 03:13:02 i want that Jul 14 03:13:19 Is there any way to close an application in OM2007.2 except ssh+kill or reboot? Jul 14 03:13:21 but it'll be on top of another plan Jul 14 03:13:42 gsm too Jul 14 03:14:10 but free gps is better Jul 14 03:14:45 chocky thanks for helping me shop Jul 14 03:15:01 rivalarrival: that sounds pretty good, are you on their plan? Jul 14 03:15:07 chocky: Yeah, but I'm assuming that since it's a GSM phone, one would probably want a cell plan too.. Jul 14 03:15:13 I'm not sure I said anything very helpful Jul 14 03:15:18 ikjh: the right-hand tab on the bottom of the home screen, and the garbage can on that list Jul 14 03:15:44 niklauz: I haven't used their data service yet. I have a family plan for voice only. Jul 14 03:15:46 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rac4b3aff1679 10/packages/meta/openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Add openmoko-asu-feed.bb Jul 14 03:15:47 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r776f63cd66be 10/packages/meta/openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Add openmoko-asu-feed.bb Jul 14 03:15:55 But I will be getting their data plan. Jul 14 03:17:10 SpeedEvil: Thanks! That worked fine. It was driving me crazy. Jul 14 03:17:16 have they left ca yet? Jul 14 03:17:44 niklauz: As chocky mentioned - it's $20 on top of a voice plan. There is an internet only plan for $40 Jul 14 03:18:09 ikjh: :) Jul 14 03:38:01 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080713/ap_on_re_us/cell_phone_trafficking;_ylt=AhRQ_q3KA0wsLEZ6nquSls0jtBAF Jul 14 03:43:35 linuxxr: That's an interesting article. Jul 14 03:43:58 yes it is Jul 14 03:44:18 can u put a tracfone sim in a freerunner? Jul 14 03:44:35 I don't see why not. Jul 14 03:44:41 reallyy Jul 14 03:45:02 10 cents a minuit/ Jul 14 03:45:24 tyme to play Jul 14 03:45:29 Someone oughtta give it a try. Jul 14 03:45:34 linuxxr: I tried putting a tracfone card in my other GSM phone. It didn't work. Jul 14 03:45:43 15 bucks Jul 14 03:45:52 linuxxr: The connectors were in different places. Jul 14 03:45:57 oo Jul 14 03:45:58 Not a real SIM card. Jul 14 03:46:12 what modle phone was it Jul 14 03:46:23 moto Jul 14 03:46:27 I don't remember. Jul 14 03:46:27 nokia Jul 14 03:46:41 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r42019e8fd86d 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [diversity] Add default map packages into task-openmoko-asu-feed Jul 14 03:47:18 *looking in an old drawer* I found the phone now. It's a Motorola. Jul 14 03:47:22 mon now Jul 14 03:47:41 modle # please:) Jul 14 03:48:26 what are those messages CIA-42? Jul 14 03:48:51 looksd like software changes Jul 14 03:49:35 linuxxr: Hm. Forget what I said. I just tried it again (on a SonyEricsson phone), and I get "Inactive SIM". I must have done something weird last time. Jul 14 03:50:04 niklauz: I asked earlier - someone said commits to the repositories. Jul 14 03:51:13 u got freerunner? Jul 14 03:51:41 Yeah. Haven't tried the tracfone card in it yet though. Jul 14 03:52:10 u said pins config was incorrect Jul 14 03:52:31 That's what I remembered, but I think I remembered wrong. It looks fine when I look at it now. Jul 14 03:52:38 o Jul 14 03:53:00 what about the batt will they interchange also Jul 14 03:53:46 No, the tracfone battery is too big. They look pretty similar though. Jul 14 03:54:16 we needs bigger battery---- i think Jul 14 03:54:40 maybe not Jul 14 03:55:05 i will be useless thursday Jul 14 04:04:01 anyone in the new york area with an extra freerunner? Jul 14 04:04:06 that i could buy... Jul 14 04:07:39 ooo nos Jul 14 04:08:20 will there be anymore for sale in the us in august? Jul 14 04:08:50 or at all Jul 14 04:09:02 850 gsm Jul 14 04:10:07 regarding batteries: most nokias use a compatible battery. Jul 14 04:10:46 linuxxr: With the trac card in my freerunner, the top left corner says "Registering..." all the time. It does the same with my AT&T card and without a card, so it doesn't really say much about the trac card. Jul 14 04:15:43 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4523 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): merge with pyefl-sudoku project files (Erin Yueh) Jul 14 04:16:28 Does anyone know why my freerunner doesn't register with the GSM network? Is it a known problem? Jul 14 04:17:30 who with? Jul 14 04:18:22 The card is at&t. But I would assume that I would at least get 911 access even without a card, no? Jul 14 04:18:47 hi all, I'm running into an error when trying to make flash-qemu-official on new images with mokomakefile... this is after the initial make qemu worked just fine. Anyone seen this? Jul 14 04:19:03 It's a Comcast card, if it matters. The network should be at&t though. Jul 14 04:19:07 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4524 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/data/ (14 files in 3 dirs): modify some data files (Erin Yueh) Jul 14 04:41:10 hey where the hell is everyone? Jul 14 04:41:25 Dave? Jul 14 04:41:27 everwhere Jul 14 04:42:17 Nowhere Jul 14 04:42:23 Somewhere Jul 14 04:42:35 so there's soldering job to be had? Is this common or just if the GPS don't work? Jul 14 04:43:01 If gps doesn't work, and it might just be the antenna connection. Jul 14 04:43:22 which you can fix with needle nose pliers Jul 14 04:43:32 sounds good Jul 14 04:43:56 lokks like a pretty small connection Jul 14 04:44:06 Very small. Jul 14 04:44:32 http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP Jul 14 04:46:49 painful Jul 14 04:47:05 soldered smds before, who ever had the that page should tell people NOT to use those safty soldering irons because the arcing of the prongs could blow the mofo up. Jul 14 04:47:32 Get on that, would you? Jul 14 04:47:34 :-) Jul 14 04:47:41 it's a wiki, ill fix it duh Jul 14 04:48:02 I would just copy/paste your warning from here to there. Jul 14 04:48:30 well I'll add a picture as well as a better description. Jul 14 04:48:51 Sonicadvance: It supposedly only affects a small number of phones. Jul 14 04:49:15 I see Jul 14 04:50:22 just looking at the reports minesweeper is "alomst" working this phone is gonna be sweet when it gets in Jul 14 04:50:43 also i would suggest only soldering if you really know its the cause of the flaw (which we cannot say for sure yet) Jul 14 04:51:17 i just resoldered that socket on my prototype and it didnt change behaviour so far Jul 14 04:58:49 any ideas how to make a warning square? Jul 14 05:04:48 bleh minesweeper Jul 14 05:04:58 why do we want o remind people of windows Jul 14 05:10:12 minesweeper = windows now? Jul 14 05:11:58 well anyhow I edited the post I hope no one minds Jul 14 05:18:56 so can anyone tell me once I have the phone, how hard will it be to update the programming? Jul 14 05:19:56 very simple Jul 14 05:20:02 It's come a long way Jul 14 05:20:09 Railer, it's not very difficult :) Jul 14 05:20:10 hey dave! Jul 14 05:20:19 Minesweeper? Blech. Jul 14 05:20:20 Once you get into the swing of things it will become second nature ;) Jul 14 05:20:23 heh Jul 14 05:20:58 I'll settle for a terminal window. Jul 14 05:21:20 Railer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Jul 14 05:21:26 fwiw Jul 14 05:21:33 haha arcing mofo... Jul 14 05:21:37 weet Jul 14 05:21:42 Railer: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sebastian_bergmann/sets/72157605972103961/detail/ shows how easy updating is :) Jul 14 05:21:48 roh, what prototype would that be, the GTA02? Jul 14 05:22:24 could help to read through the distributions wiki page Jul 14 05:22:40 minorly Jul 14 05:23:10 heh those pics are awesome Jul 14 05:24:10 200 bogomips? i thought the freerunner was 400 Jul 14 05:25:28 anyone know if there has been a new release of the atheros wlan firmware (2.0) yet? Jul 14 05:26:13 flashing on linux only? or windows too? Jul 14 05:26:41 Yuck. Windows. Jul 14 05:27:15 ................... Jul 14 05:27:44 Honestly, I don't know. I can refer you to a good Ubuntu liveCD Jul 14 05:28:44 I have several versions of linux currently working including my own web servers, just asking some questions Jul 14 05:31:42 \ Jul 14 05:41:39 Dave yey, a gta02 prototype ... #85 Jul 14 05:42:50 swc|666 ? the fw inside the freerunner atheros is already 2.x afaik. no flasher avail. Jul 14 05:44:43 anheuser-busch is now owned by inbev Jul 14 05:45:04 inbev? Jul 14 05:46:44 they're an international beverage conglomorate Jul 14 05:47:18 buy and large Jul 14 05:52:37 Railer: you might be able to flash the phone with cygwin, but it is a very long shot Jul 14 05:56:14 kd8ikt: We saw that movie just today. :) Jul 14 05:56:36 good flick eh? Jul 14 05:56:41 kd8ikt: Yes, very good Jul 14 05:57:07 i liked it despite the apple propaganda Jul 14 05:57:26 suprised they didnt call her ieve Jul 14 05:57:32 I saw an ipod but didn't notice much propaganda otherwise Jul 14 05:57:36 or iwalle Jul 14 05:57:45 that's ok it's not for me, it's a question about the big picture of the phone, linux on the phone is one thing. Having to use linux to upgrade is somethigncompletely different Jul 14 05:57:55 his fully charged sound is an old mac bootup sound Jul 14 05:58:09 kd8ikt: oh, right. I did notice that. Jul 14 05:58:12 EVE looks like an ipod Jul 14 05:58:40 AUTO's voice is credited in the... credits as macintalk Jul 14 05:58:44 text2speach Jul 14 05:58:48 speech Jul 14 05:59:11 Sigourney Weaver was a voice in there also Jul 14 05:59:16 Ships voice I think Jul 14 05:59:20 but hey atleast it wasnt windows crap eh? Jul 14 05:59:24 yeah Jul 14 05:59:33 the lesser of two evils Jul 14 06:02:42 someone should count howmanny times the name walle is said during it Jul 14 06:03:13 Railer: i believed the goal was that the phone should be able to grab updates frok Jul 14 06:03:49 *from the net and do it itself without the need of a pc, be it linux or windows Jul 14 06:04:07 my apologies, bad keyboard. Jul 14 06:05:47 that would be best Jul 14 06:06:25 lets make a slax version for openmoko developers Jul 14 06:07:50 I'm just trying to convince people this is a commercial product, and having the upgrades a linux os only thing would be a problem, but direct via lets say wifi would be excellent Jul 14 06:08:56 but its not a commercial product Jul 14 06:09:29 so what is it? a concept car? Jul 14 06:09:48 Railer: A kit car. Jul 14 06:10:51 even still just because it doesnt have windows support shouldnt matter, not like windows ever made other operating system integration a priority Jul 14 06:11:08 For being a totally open phone I'm a little bit surprised that the software is as rough as it is. Especially in the basic things like powering on. I'm wondering if I should be submitting bug reports or if it's too soon for that since the software is still very beta. Jul 14 06:11:39 I was hoping this would one day compete with the likes of iphone, it seems im in error. Jul 14 06:11:55 That's horrible Jul 14 06:11:56 What do you expect, when 3/4 of the freerunners haven't even made it into the hands of their new owners? Jul 14 06:12:38 Railer: It might, given a bit of time, and some outside help. Jul 14 06:12:39 yeah howmanny GTA01's were produced? Jul 14 06:13:16 The more they put out, the faster it will develop. Jul 14 06:13:34 so, what's the general impression of the freerunner? Jul 14 06:13:39 how many Neo's vs freerunners were are produced? Jul 14 06:13:49 Railer: I think it will easily compete with iphone. Just needs some time. Jul 14 06:13:49 this first run of the freerunner is supposed to be for the developers. the official enduser launch isn't until august or something from what i can remember... Jul 14 06:14:17 owen1_: So far I really like the hardware. I'm a little bummed by the GPS antenna problem. I need to find a torx screwdriver to open mine. Jul 14 06:14:34 whine whine whine Jul 14 06:14:34 owen1_: The other problems all seem to be software related which I'm sure will shape up over the next few months. Jul 14 06:14:44 tessier: Lowes/Home Depot has them for cheap. Jul 14 06:14:54 tessier: great. what about wifi? Jul 14 06:15:00 rivalarrival: Yes, I will be swinging by a Home Depot tomorrow Jul 14 06:15:09 owen1_: I haven't gotten around to getting the wifi working yet Jul 14 06:16:02 tessier: so it's not ready for my mom yet.. Jul 14 06:16:17 owen1_: Not yet, no Jul 14 06:16:27 wifi needs an easy to setup interface. Jul 14 06:16:28 It's still early Jul 14 06:16:32 don't think it's ready for anyone who isn't a power user Jul 14 06:17:24 the basics must work out of the box - gps and wifi Jul 14 06:17:42 owen doubtful Jul 14 06:17:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu is this for the freerunner or neo1973? Jul 14 06:17:51 I got wifi working after I realized that I had to set the key before I set the essid. If I set the essid first I got "Input/output error" when I tried to set the key. (Yeah, I know, WEP bad.) Jul 14 06:17:51 They will eventually. Just not right now Jul 14 06:18:00 Should just get a consumer phone from the store Jul 14 06:18:21 I haven't gotten gps or gsm to work yet... Jul 14 06:18:22 its a developer's phone Jul 14 06:18:31 My gsm works great Jul 14 06:18:47 I have to tell it to power up the gsm and auto-register though which is a bit off. Jul 14 06:18:55 power user, with solid linux experence Jul 14 06:19:04 I've got gsm and gps working. Tango maps with map scrolling via USB networking. Jul 14 06:19:16 Railer: are u a rails dev? Jul 14 06:19:29 tessier: If you turn it on without a SIM card, do you get any indication from gsm that something is working? I'm wondering if it has problems with my sim card. Jul 14 06:19:34 no but I should be Jul 14 06:20:10 Railer: just skip the rails hype and land in merb. Jul 14 06:20:22 merb? Jul 14 06:20:50 ikjh: I haven't turned it on without a sim card. But generally I get no indication that something is working until I tell it to turn on the gsm antenna Jul 14 06:20:51 tessier: http://merbivore.com/ Jul 14 06:21:16 tessier: lightweight version of rails. Jul 14 06:21:18 lol looks cool Jul 14 06:21:36 The accelerometers are working fine by the way. I wrote a short Python program to print the values. It works fine. I made it scream when I dropped the phone. :) Jul 14 06:22:18 ike: ooh...is there any software in the repo that uses them yet? Jul 14 06:22:25 ikjh: I've been wondering how to make them do something Jul 14 06:22:38 Have anyone tried running the phone without a sim card and managed to get anything other than the "Registering..." message? Jul 14 06:23:00 ikjh: what about X11 screen rotating Jul 14 06:23:29 landscape/protrait Jul 14 06:23:29 you know there are over i think 50 os frame works for Java.... Jul 14 06:23:52 kd8ikt: That works fine for me. I didn't manage to turn it upside down though. Jul 14 06:24:28 damn i've been here trippin my mind out thinking it didnt Jul 14 06:24:40 cant wait till mine gets here fri Jul 14 06:24:53 a whole fricken week i'm gonna loose my mind Jul 14 06:24:59 lose* Jul 14 06:25:08 Seems that it's already gone Jul 14 06:25:09 lol Jul 14 06:25:10 ;p Jul 14 06:25:13 screen rotation works fine via the aux button but is not automatic via accelerometers or anything Jul 14 06:25:16 foot loose Jul 14 06:25:21 foot lose Jul 14 06:25:26 kick off the sunday shoes Jul 14 06:25:50 i'm booting an emulated openmoko! \0/ Jul 14 06:27:56 Have anyone managed to use it as a SIP phone? Jul 14 06:28:02 ozzloy: qemu? Jul 14 06:28:26 feitingen: yes. from this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu Jul 14 06:28:38 awesome, thanks Jul 14 06:29:09 you would not happen to know how to set up a proper build environment, would you? Jul 14 06:29:28 feitingen: i copy pastad stuff from that page Jul 14 06:29:32 to compile apps for the freerunner, that is Jul 14 06:29:35 into my shell Jul 14 06:29:37 ah Jul 14 06:30:43 i have the emulator running, but the buttons don't seem to do anything Jul 14 06:31:04 i click, they light up, no change in interface Jul 14 06:31:07 halp? Jul 14 06:31:43 the bottom ones too? Jul 14 06:33:05 you might need some patience, its not extremely fast on the freerunner, and emulation has never been really fast Jul 14 06:34:36 well it's been about 10 minutes now Jul 14 06:35:17 oh Jul 14 06:38:56 the topmost buttons start apps, do you have them installed? Jul 14 06:39:41 lol Jul 14 06:40:31 hm? Jul 14 06:40:38 i have no "topmost buttons" Jul 14 06:41:03 the buttons i see are across the bottom Jul 14 06:41:54 oh, try restarting neod, its supposed to handle those buttons Jul 14 06:43:15 how would i go about doing that? Jul 14 06:43:34 neod on the host computer? Jul 14 06:43:37 try sshing to the phone Jul 14 06:43:45 no, the emulated Jul 14 06:44:19 you've blown my mind Jul 14 06:44:28 how would i ssh to the emulated phone? Jul 14 06:45:19 i have no idea, i'll fire up qemu in a few minutes, meanwhile, try to reboot your emu Jul 14 06:46:45 on third boot now Jul 14 06:47:01 morning Jul 14 06:47:04 literal boots. nice splash screen Jul 14 06:47:20 do you hear the sound? Jul 14 06:47:58 no Jul 14 06:48:12 yeah, i loove the boots, but i think if they was removed, i could shave off some time on booting the phone Jul 14 06:48:25 i'm getting a bunch of lines like this: s3c_mmci_writew: Bad register 0x38 Jul 14 06:49:09 feitingen, i doubt it... the boots come up very quickly... you're talking saving 3 seconds at most Jul 14 06:49:42 i'd rather have the % telling me the progress than 3 seconds Jul 14 06:50:44 gnight and thanks all Jul 14 06:51:09 i guess thats the beauty of it, the freedom to choose between 3 seconds and a pair of boots ;) Jul 14 06:51:21 oh yea Jul 14 06:51:33 the could've chosen sexier boots though Jul 14 06:51:58 yeah, definetively Jul 14 06:52:28 like a chicks thigh highs ;) with her still in em Jul 14 06:52:55 someone open a support ticket... Jul 14 06:53:01 hehe Jul 14 06:53:33 is that image in the kernel/initramfs Jul 14 06:53:45 its probably in userspace Jul 14 06:53:56 i guess Jul 14 06:53:58 * kd8ikt bets initram Jul 14 06:54:17 yeah, if there's an initrd (which i think there is), it's in that Jul 14 06:54:24 it comes up before init Jul 14 06:54:28 what do they call those images that have the kernel/initrd? Jul 14 06:54:30 ah Jul 14 06:54:50 openmoko uses a balled up kernel+initrd Jul 14 06:55:11 2.6.26 is out! Jul 14 06:55:17 if you have an eeepc, rejoice Jul 14 06:55:24 weird, I do Jul 14 06:55:48 Ubuntu doesn't have any of the eee pc features compiled in I don't think Jul 14 06:56:00 i want an eeepc Jul 14 06:56:19 uImage Jul 14 06:56:32 I'm buying a 901 soon Jul 14 06:56:42 the new kernel has several new modules for the eee Jul 14 06:56:59 been watching it in rc status... waiting... Jul 14 06:57:24 yea, I have the release candidate made on my 701 Jul 14 06:57:33 http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ Jul 14 06:58:33 i've heard some pretty screwy things about the rcs for .26 from an over-zealous friend who likes to fix things that aren't broke Jul 14 06:58:37 so i stayed away Jul 14 06:58:57 os[ryan@ryan-desktop, Linux 2.6.26-3-generic x86_64] Jul 14 07:01:57 acpi support for the backlight, fan, support the hotkeys to toggle wifi/camera/sd on/off, Jul 14 07:02:35 there is support for cam on the eee? Jul 14 07:02:40 yeah objcopy is used to fuse the kernel/initrd into one file Jul 14 07:02:43 feitingen, yes Jul 14 07:02:49 some models have a built in webcam Jul 14 07:02:54 now how the fudge to undo it Jul 14 07:03:15 only the 2G Surf and 4G surf don't have the camera Jul 14 07:03:39 ok, thats it. im getting one Jul 14 07:03:45 get a 901! Jul 14 07:03:48 =o Jul 14 07:03:52 with linux! Jul 14 07:04:04 yes, the Linux version isn't out yet in the 901 though... Jul 14 07:04:20 install it yourself Jul 14 07:04:27 unless its hardware is diff Jul 14 07:04:35 like broadcrap wireless Jul 14 07:04:42 there is a hardware diff Jul 14 07:04:49 the linux model has better specs Jul 14 07:04:50 yes, there is a hardware difference Jul 14 07:04:59 (specifically, a larger ssd) Jul 14 07:05:04 the linux model of the 901 only has a bigger SDD Jul 14 07:05:08 Sonicadvance1: i can preorder it in norway Jul 14 07:05:18 I can pre-order it in the US as well Jul 14 07:05:35 can martians preorder aswell Jul 14 07:05:39 probably Jul 14 07:05:50 poor norway.... you guys spend too much on beer Jul 14 07:05:53 since norwegians can, martians can Jul 14 07:06:02 ieatlint: how did you know? Jul 14 07:06:21 it's known as essentially the most expensive place to buy a beer Jul 14 07:06:35 you tax beer like we tax cigarettes Jul 14 07:07:04 and we tax cigarettes like... somthing taxed very much. Jul 14 07:07:48 I've always found cigarettes to be a waste of money Jul 14 07:08:24 for me, it has become a necessity Jul 14 07:08:36 Nicotine addiction? Jul 14 07:08:44 yes. Jul 14 07:08:53 Still a waste of money then isn't it? :P Jul 14 07:09:26 yes, and it clogs up the cooling of my computer. Jul 14 07:09:40 it is a pain to clean. Jul 14 07:09:40 cigarette smokers know better than anyone how bad it is Jul 14 07:10:05 i am glad my lungs are self-cleaning to some degree Jul 14 07:11:00 I smoked a few cigarettes to see how it is. I found no use for them Jul 14 07:11:34 i have learned a lot about aerodynamics while smoking :) Jul 14 07:11:53 How to not get the smoke in your face? Jul 14 07:11:57 * swc|666 ponders the thought over a cigarette Jul 14 07:12:21 Sonicadvance1: and how to blow the smoke so it will get out of the window as soon as possible Jul 14 07:12:38 haha Jul 14 07:12:40 or avoiding to blow the smoke in someones face Jul 14 07:13:20 basically, hot air goes up, flowing air sticks to surfaces Jul 14 07:19:53 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r1dd2caf1d39b 10/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-feed-configs.bb: [openmoko] Change default feed repository Jul 14 07:23:24 whats this? Jul 14 07:42:12 Hi Jul 14 07:43:56 can someone plz report to me the efficiency of the freeranners vibrator feature? Jul 14 07:45:41 hi Jul 14 08:11:38 morning Jul 14 08:11:51 I found the problem with my gsm. My SIM card is listed at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT . I need a new card. Jul 14 08:12:00 Evening. Jul 14 08:15:56 good morning Jul 14 08:23:39 ikjh: you have a 1973 ? Jul 14 08:25:31 KrisAbsinthe_: I have a GTA02. Jul 14 08:26:17 I thought the sim problem was only with the 1973 SH1. they fixed it later on. Jul 14 08:27:38 Weird. I have the exact same numbers and problem as one row on that page. +CME Error 10 for AT+CFUN=1 and +CME Error 13 for AT+CIMI Jul 14 08:29:14 That sucks, I know that michael shiloh was offering free GSM firware flashed if you paid shipping both ways for the 1973. You should ask abut the GTA02 Jul 14 08:31:00 issue the commands to read a contact or text off the card. i found that was a better what to know for sure if the card was unusable, libgsm-tool will crash if it cant read it usually Jul 14 08:31:00 Will getting a new SIM card from AT&T work too? That should be much easier. I don't want to part with my Freerunner just yet. :) Jul 14 08:31:49 libgsmd-tool did not crash. Jul 14 08:31:52 Depends if they send you one off that list or not. I have a 6 year old SIM, only one I have that works, I have about 10 Jul 14 08:31:55 AT+CFUN=1 Jul 14 08:31:55 STR=`AT+CFUN=1' Jul 14 08:31:55 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 10' Jul 14 08:31:55 AT+CIMI Jul 14 08:31:55 STR=`AT+CIMI' Jul 14 08:31:56 cme error: 13 Jul 14 08:31:58 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 13' Jul 14 08:34:31 def. seems like the same problem Jul 14 08:36:34 i previously said that the boots image seen when booting shows up before init ... i was incorrect, it shows up immediately as init starts Jul 14 08:38:59 OK, I just read through http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/666 and others are reporting the same problem with 3G cards. Jul 14 08:39:18 On new phones, the last week, not just the old ones. Jul 14 08:39:19 Hi there, Jul 14 08:39:32 I'm trying to make openmoko-devel-image (using MokoMakefile), and it always fails when building glibc-2.6.1. Jul 14 08:39:56 -> configure: error: C preprocessor "arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc -E" fails sanity check Jul 14 08:41:24 Has anyone seen this already? I'm on a Debian Lenny (testing) machine. Jul 14 08:45:51 hello Jul 14 08:46:00 how much time does it take to configure font smoothing on neo freerunner? Jul 14 08:54:57 (i am serious with this question: it's a whether-to-buy user's benchmark of how complete is the architectural stack and software communication -> thus a generic test how complex work will it be) Jul 14 08:55:46 sledgeas, how much time does it take to configure font smoothing on a generic dell desktop? Jul 14 08:55:56 (using X, presumably, you mean?) Jul 14 08:57:15 sorry, i'm just a broker between a neo-freerunner owner-wannabe, it's a kinda silly and not fully informative question from a linux guru like him -- i thought he's great, and i'm silly (i.e. knowing a lot more in the background), so i have just pasted this question here) Jul 14 08:57:36 but looks like he's outsmarted himself :) Jul 14 08:58:43 :) Jul 14 08:59:17 to me -- a long-time unix developer -- it feels like developing for a unix running on maybe a low-end pentium. Jul 14 08:59:24 the software side of the freerunner is in its infantile state.. Jul 14 08:59:25 including similar restrictions on RAM and disk. Jul 14 08:59:40 think of it like running netscape from 1999 on a current computer Jul 14 08:59:42 and as ieatlint says, including the immaturity of the graphical side of the user interface Jul 14 08:59:51 the hardware is there, but you can only load basic webpages Jul 14 09:00:08 hmmmmmmm Jul 14 09:00:17 the kernel seems to be developing rapidly, and where possible, the features of the phone are exposed to the userland using the usual linux APIs Jul 14 09:00:24 what do you mean by webpages? Jul 14 09:00:30 which makes programming for the neo feel pretty natural Jul 14 09:00:37 sledgeas, I think that was an extended metaphor :) Jul 14 09:00:43 it's an analogy... it means phone calls are relatively reliable Jul 14 09:00:45 yea, that's what i ask ;) Jul 14 09:00:46 sms is relatively reliable Jul 14 09:00:50 anything else... not so much Jul 14 09:00:58 what do you mean by anything else? Jul 14 09:01:00 you can get things working, but it's not the simplest Jul 14 09:01:07 diverts? Jul 14 09:01:11 gps, gprs, wifi, webbrowser Jul 14 09:01:12 roaming Jul 14 09:01:13 sledgeas, if you're wanting to use it as a phone, you will need to do a lot of work Jul 14 09:01:22 if you're wanting to hack around on/with it, it's ready now. Jul 14 09:01:29 actually qtopia isn't bad for just using it as a phone Jul 14 09:01:30 wait, ieatlint has just said that calls and sms word --- it's a phone! Jul 14 09:01:36 modulo power management, perhaps Jul 14 09:01:42 actually I only have a GTA01 Jul 14 09:01:46 yeah, power management is crappy Jul 14 09:01:49 so things may have improved Jul 14 09:02:02 not entirely Jul 14 09:02:10 *work Jul 14 09:02:20 the freerunner at the moment is a toy Jul 14 09:02:23 a development platform Jul 14 09:03:24 ok, so i have 2 years of live-with gentoo experience, 5 years linux/unix, 10 years c/c++ -- will I get around with it? here around me i try to get another 9 geeks, who even want to replace it as their daily phone Jul 14 09:03:32 what experience requirements i should tell them? Jul 14 09:03:48 well, i'm a gentoo guy myself Jul 14 09:03:49 sledgeas, you're fine for the userland side of things Jul 14 09:04:02 done anything with telephony before? Jul 14 09:04:12 found and read ITU standards, for instance? immune to ASN.1? Jul 14 09:04:19 Sony J* series, uploaoding via cable :) Jul 14 09:04:20 <`pwgen_8`> i use my moko as phone .. apm is working calling is working and receiving calls is working . Jul 14 09:04:29 seriously though you really only need to know a bit about Hayes modem commands (ATZ, ...) Jul 14 09:04:32 <`pwgen_8`> its an gta01 Jul 14 09:04:44 tonyg: in order to doing what? Jul 14 09:04:46 i am using the gta02 as my phone Jul 14 09:04:58 sledgeas, to hack around improving the phonelike aspect of the machine Jul 14 09:05:07 everything else is as you would expect with your unix experience Jul 14 09:05:20 yeah, it's basically a computer with a gsm modem in it Jul 14 09:05:25 indeed Jul 14 09:05:29 ssh in, get a sh prompt Jul 14 09:05:36 ok, or waiting for 6 months till software gets better and it'd become 99% reliable phone (as the hardware is there as you've said) Jul 14 09:05:44 has wget, a package manager, etc Jul 14 09:05:57 yes, but what'd I tell to my friends-linux-geeks(?)? Jul 14 09:06:10 the software will definitely get better, and i expect to see improvements soon... but no one can say in 6 months 99% reliability Jul 14 09:06:12 sledgeas, depends on your needs; want a phone, buy a cheap nokia ;) Jul 14 09:06:43 in any case, i should tell them that at the moment GTA02 is 66% relliable phone because of software? Jul 14 09:07:16 it's more complicated than that :P Jul 14 09:07:17 better perhaps to say the callin, callout and sms features work, but power management and suspend/resume is very flaky Jul 14 09:07:43 and if they want to use it, they can wait or may as well improve it, after getting around Hayes (ITU ASN.1s) ? Jul 14 09:07:57 plus there are 4 different software images for the phone, and each one has benefits/disadvantages Jul 14 09:08:17 tonyg: where have you seen a mobile phone suspend? this is not a mobile phone's aspect, or? Jul 14 09:08:34 ieatlint: you mean http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:OpenmokoFramework08.png ? Jul 14 09:08:38 (on the top) Jul 14 09:08:50 sledgeas, what he means is underclocking the cpu and such to save power Jul 14 09:09:02 there is a quasi-suspend that essentially all mobile phones have Jul 14 09:09:04 ok, so that's scaling Jul 14 09:09:31 well, it also has to do with switching the ram to a different mode and several other aspects... i don't know the details Jul 14 09:10:13 ic Jul 14 09:10:32 ieatlint: is GTA02 enlightment ready? (a question from one-of-the geeks :)) Jul 14 09:10:41 no Jul 14 09:11:12 there are 4 images: 2007.2, which ships with the gta02 ... it supports all the hardware, but doesn't always have a gui, and is relatively stable Jul 14 09:11:24 sledgeas: i had/have a motorola a925 which would suspend Jul 14 09:11:27 the ASU which has all the features, but is pretty unstable Jul 14 09:11:39 the freerunner has replacd it Jul 14 09:11:49 qtopia, which is made by trolltech, and is the prettiest and quite usable, but pretty much just supports sms/phone calls Jul 14 09:12:07 and then FSO ... which is really just a proof of concept for a base platform that only supports phone calls Jul 14 09:12:43 qtopia was also the one which is worst on powersaving Jul 14 09:12:47 SHR, which is aka "Openmoko Framework" is an announced project Jul 14 09:12:49 imho Jul 14 09:12:53 so, the direction is modularizing [already is?] all gps, wifi etc stuff and moving them to qtopia by providing a GUI of it? Jul 14 09:13:18 it plans to take the features of ASU and combine them with the base platform of the FSO, which is regarded as the most stable Jul 14 09:13:32 so what about enlightment? Jul 14 09:13:44 sledgeas: it seems it is a temporary solution to get something usable and stable until the others catch up Jul 14 09:14:00 my guess Jul 14 09:14:05 enlightenment will stay methinks Jul 14 09:14:10 in any case, the more people have GTA02 (or at least on qEmu), can the unified idea-bank appear, and not “I will code this thing for myself and wont bother sharing 'cause im too lazy” :) Jul 14 09:14:47 the phone will support enlightenment, qtopia (Qt), gtk+ and standard x11 with the SHR ... Jul 14 09:15:07 and all that's in the separate images Jul 14 09:15:20 right now, yes Jul 14 09:15:25 feitingen: qtopia relies on apm, which is broken. but the latest qtopia images qt qtopia.net use mwester images which can actually suspend and resume sucessfully Jul 14 09:15:26 but the SHR is intending to merge them Jul 14 09:15:46 i foresee wars of flames on qt vs gtk vs X etc – GNOME KDE case basically :) Jul 14 09:15:48 nice, lpotter Jul 14 09:15:59 sledgeas, been there, done that Jul 14 09:16:05 they've already taken place primarily Jul 14 09:16:22 end everyone's decided to use “everything possible” :D Jul 14 09:16:26 perhaps the SHR will offer Qt, gtk+, etc as "options" and you pick what you want Jul 14 09:16:41 i'd go for enlightenment and i'd develop if icould just get started Jul 14 09:16:52 right now, they want to expand the backend using FSO's dbus-API system Jul 14 09:17:18 it's considered reliable, simplistic and scalable Jul 14 09:18:00 and since it's modular, people could pick and choose their frontend ... eg, i want this dialer, this sms suite and this webbrowser Jul 14 09:18:21 that's what's great about it, isn't it ;) Jul 14 09:18:23 lol Jul 14 09:18:32 yep Jul 14 09:18:45 right now, the image you choose picks out your dialer and sms suite, and the general UI Jul 14 09:18:56 but the browser is already an add-on, with two present options Jul 14 09:19:22 an openmoko webkit browser which is very minimal, and a 4 year old mozilla based browser which has a lot more features, but issues Jul 14 09:20:05 the only problem ones'll have one things working in one camp, another -- in another, hey hey we're going through maturity of unix/linux over again from kernel to GUIs lol Jul 14 09:20:23 yeah, that's basically it Jul 14 09:20:30 but the potential is great Jul 14 09:20:39 i think SMS has a whole new future... Jul 14 09:20:46 applications based on it Jul 14 09:21:21 yup Jul 14 09:21:22 and P2P Jul 14 09:21:28 for instance, aol aim has an sms shortcode interface... use it instead of gprs, and you have a solution that uses less battery, no data Jul 14 09:21:32 (the guy mentioned it here the days before) Jul 14 09:22:07 provided both peer's are wi-fi`ed Jul 14 09:22:18 it's a lot of great ideas, and undoubtedly a lot of vapourware Jul 14 09:22:30 yup.. Jul 14 09:22:41 but the potential is definitely there Jul 14 09:23:14 plus, it's a new medium... i've always lacked a good programming idea that i could tackle without being completely redundant Jul 14 09:23:29 here i feel like i can come up with ideas and implement them, and learn a bit more Jul 14 09:31:04 and qtopia.net is down Jul 14 09:48:02 ieatlint: what about everything but GSM side? Jul 14 09:48:22 gps, wi-fi, bt, usb -- everything is out there, but needs to be recompiled (ie ported) to openmoko's? Jul 14 09:48:28 what architecture is it ? ARM? Jul 14 09:48:47 it's arm, yes... but the existing kernels support all of that Jul 14 09:49:01 it's not so much a driver issue (except perhaps with gps) Jul 14 09:49:06 it's an interface issue Jul 14 09:49:25 there is actually a relatively complete package system Jul 14 09:49:49 ok, driver provides it's interface ;) you mean there's no software? hmm -- even a java gps midlets would go, or? Jul 14 09:50:00 i've yet to install support on my computer to compile for it, in fact... although in part because it needs gcc3.x and i am reticent to install it Jul 14 09:50:03 s/software/client software Jul 14 09:50:18 there are some relatively decent gps apps Jul 14 09:50:29 it's more a reliability issue Jul 14 09:50:30 ok, so this part is not really a problem Jul 14 09:50:38 of hardware part? or boogz in soft :) Jul 14 09:50:47 well, gps is a separate issue actually Jul 14 09:51:24 there's an issue with it taking excessive amounts of time for it to get a fix, if it ever even gets one, that could be hardware, software or both... it's being looked into Jul 14 09:51:53 wifi, bluetooth... both have the same drivers and backends as one would see on any other linux system Jul 14 09:52:03 (iwconfig, bluez) Jul 14 09:52:36 but there is no gui to configure either really... although qtopia does have a rudimentary one for bluetooth, which can pair devices, but not use them Jul 14 09:52:39 (11:00:50 AM) ieatlint: gps, gprs, wifi, webbrowser ... not so much -- you can get things working, but it's not the simplest Jul 14 09:52:53 yeah, i stand by that Jul 14 09:53:06 (11:51:53 AM) ieatlint: wifi, bluetooth... both have the same drivers and backends as one would see on any other linux system Jul 14 09:53:18 gps works for me, if i want to stand still in a field with it pointed to the sky Jul 14 09:53:31 yep, iwconfig and hciconfig are all there Jul 14 09:53:33 you mean, when you put accelerometers to work? Jul 14 09:53:38 it cracks? :) Jul 14 09:53:48 the accelerometers are working fine Jul 14 09:53:58 i've just yet to see any UI for them... Jul 14 09:54:00 so, what do you mean by standing still? the software cannot handle more yetr? Jul 14 09:54:11 they're /dev/input/event2 and event3, you can cat them and get the data Jul 14 09:54:30 gps has issues wth getting a location lock Jul 14 09:54:32 splendid :D that's the whole new field, we'll sure will see them yet to come Jul 14 09:54:50 yep Jul 14 09:54:55 see the topic? Jul 14 09:55:01 yea, soldering stuff Jul 14 09:55:13 is that GTA02 is sold out (they canceled the whole set off?) Jul 14 09:55:41 Does anyone know how to get sound after I've had the phone in suspend? Jul 14 09:55:44 basically, people who can get a fix need to have it in an open area, with the phone oriented so that it gets the best signal it can Jul 14 09:55:56 it's not easy to get a fix... once you have a fix, you can keep it really well Jul 14 09:56:14 and it's unclear if this is due to software, hardware, or both Jul 14 09:56:20 that's overly negative Jul 14 09:56:21 i'm optimistic it's software Jul 14 09:57:01 apparently there are some units with faulty gps antenna connections, but I've found three units already get a fix decently well Jul 14 09:57:34 after applying a soldering iron, mjr? :) Jul 14 09:57:38 no Jul 14 09:57:58 well, i acknowledge that the 10-15min it can take me to get a fix is acceptable for a cold start Jul 14 09:58:08 which is why i am optimistic it's a software issue Jul 14 09:58:35 software = driver in this case? Jul 14 09:58:41 but it is still true that getting that fix is very tempermental Jul 14 09:58:49 standing in a (wideish) hole between buildings for up to 5 min Jul 14 09:59:11 in short, 1. the hardware is basically sound. 2. There might be some issues with GPS. 3. most of the backend stuff actually works. (kernel etc.) 4. Midleware is trying to reach beta and stable. 5. Frontend UI etc. has to wait until midleware is starting to solidify and 6. hopefully any other issues can be solved by software. Jul 14 09:59:24 leinir: hi, do you have still the kernel panic with a "VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p2" or unknown-block(179,2)" ? Jul 14 09:59:26 there isn't any kernel stuff for the gps Jul 14 09:59:59 you sure? i thought i heard there was something a little more than a serial interface to it Jul 14 10:00:02 _some_ units may have faulty gps. Some middleware indeed _might_ be confused by the chip's output (which includes a lot of spruious erroring) Jul 14 10:00:14 ieatlint: was that basically correct? Jul 14 10:00:43 the firmware is unlikely to be overly buggy Jul 14 10:00:51 IXian-probe, i dunno Jul 14 10:01:12 ieatlint, well there is the power management interface that turns the chip on or off, but that's pretty solid :] Jul 14 10:01:17 i'm speaking from my personal experience... i have not been an active participant in openmoko previously Jul 14 10:01:36 ayeuu: i did when i tried it yesterday, yes :) Jul 14 10:01:41 what partition type does the fat partition on the sd have? 0C FAT32 (LBA)? Jul 14 10:02:05 IXian-probe: than's a hell lot, this message i will forward to my other ~16 friends, we're apt to buying a 10-pack; what are the odds of being late for buying it? i.e., how fast will the new production line be sold out? Jul 14 10:02:10 mjr, well, i am indeed quite optimistic it is a software issue and it just needs to get support for remembering its location to get a fix Jul 14 10:02:19 leinir: ok, thx, I've got the same problem to .. no way to run it correctly Jul 14 10:02:30 sledgeas: I don Jul 14 10:02:31 ieatlint, otherwise you may be confusing the situation with the gta01 gps chip (which didn't either need kernel support, but rather an userspace driver) Jul 14 10:02:51 ayeuu: Not one that i've found, sorry :) Jul 14 10:02:53 sledgeas: I don't know anything about production lines, I'm just a hobbyist too ;) Jul 14 10:02:53 no, i understand the difference and that gllin is not at all relevant for the gat02 Jul 14 10:02:54 IXian-probe: are your msgs being truncated after a quote-apostrophe? :) Jul 14 10:02:54 gta Jul 14 10:03:05 anyone else knows about production lines? ;) Jul 14 10:03:34 ieatlint, agps support will certainly improve the situation, but if your antenna connection is truly faulty, not by much Jul 14 10:03:43 ayeuu: I'm getting the same error when trying to boot qtopia from the SD card, have you tried http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021524.html ? Jul 14 10:03:56 well, i'm a lucky one... since my antenna does not appear to be faulty Jul 14 10:04:04 but it should get rid of that "oh no I don't have a fix within a minute something's wrong" thing Jul 14 10:04:52 mjr, tell you what, i have 3 gps recievers... i'll bring all 3 down to the beach tomorrow and do a cold start from all 3 and time how long for each to lock Jul 14 10:05:07 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r4a43f4ef7b12 10/test/test.py: Added global test script Jul 14 10:05:17 if there isn't a huge skew between them, i'll retract any criticism i have Jul 14 10:05:27 i wonder why the commit script is called that Jul 14 10:05:33 *nod*. I'll grant that the Neo isn't probably a very optimal GPS receiver though. Jul 14 10:05:54 but it's an interesting experiment Jul 14 10:06:46 vpv: no, I'll try it, thx Jul 14 10:06:55 well, if nothing else, it could subdue criticisms of the hardware Jul 14 10:08:18 even if the neo gps doesn't get a fix fast, the question still remains whether this is a hardware or software issue (at least according to my very limited knowledge of agps) Jul 14 10:08:31 and anyway, agps is a band-aid for suboptimal reception. Mind you, it _can_ be quite an effective band-aid. Jul 14 10:08:37 ayeuu: I haven't tried it either yet (I may today), but apparently that should fix it... Jul 14 10:09:15 Hello Jul 14 10:09:55 How do I tell opkg to disable signatures? It tries to get http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig, but that file doesn't exist. Jul 14 10:09:57 vpv: i'll tell you that (after eating) Jul 14 10:10:44 ecraven, agps doesn't fix suboptimal reception, but you do need a better signal for downloading the data off the air than for just getting a location, so it'd certainly help Jul 14 10:11:32 (and anyway, I do think Neo reception isn't terrible, just not necessarily optimal either) Jul 14 10:11:47 from my experiments that is Jul 14 10:11:49 mjr: i've read reports that once a fix is acquired, the connection stays even in adverse circumstances Jul 14 10:12:00 so the problem seems to be the initial fix, not general reception Jul 14 10:12:24 and that's because of what I just said Jul 14 10:15:54 hm.. what's the solution to the "no package libmokoui2/gconf-2.0" problem when running autogen? (ubuntu 8.04) i cant see any step ive missed from the wiki guide Jul 14 10:18:58 can the Freerunner charge while the OS is off? Jul 14 10:19:58 emacsen: yes Jul 14 10:20:21 ecraven, ok. the qtopia image doesn't appear to be aware when it's plugged in Jul 14 10:20:25 hence my asking Jul 14 10:24:25 have you tried directly testing the files in /sys/..? Jul 14 10:33:35 * Psi gives up trying to get the toolchain to work and shelves application for a few months Jul 14 10:40:00 testing what files? Jul 14 10:40:31 How do I tell opkg to disable signatures? It tries to get http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig, but that file doesn't exist. Jul 14 10:47:58 emacsen: only the battery status is not working in qtopia, because apm is broken, and no way to get battery status Jul 14 10:50:34 quickdev: the warning messages created by opkg is just warning messages not errors. Does it create a problem? Jul 14 10:51:17 IXian-probe, I think so. opkg search openmoko doesn't produce any output :( Jul 14 10:52:04 quickdev: then the problem probably isn't the lack of signatures. because it is just a warning message. Jul 14 10:52:05 IXian-probe, oh, when using a regex it works. Sorry for disturbing. Jul 14 10:52:15 quickdev: check resolv.conf ;) Jul 14 10:52:21 quickdev: np :) Jul 14 10:53:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rfde55a16b7e0 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Jul 14 10:53:45 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: implement the first bits of incoming cell broadcasts: org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.CB.IncomingMessage( channel, data ) Jul 14 10:53:45 freesmartphone.org: Warning: This only works with the new experimental parser which you need to explicitly enable atm. (in parser.py) Jul 14 10:56:04 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r99eefea625a4 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (4 files in 4 dirs): ogsmd: add first bits of PDU handling, i.e. packed 7 bit decoding (necessary for CB PDU mode) Jul 14 10:58:25 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r7c95eafb745a 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/parser.py: ogsmd: more tweaks to the new parser, still disabled by default though Jul 14 11:06:20 <`pwgen_8`> mickeyl|zzZZzz: ping Jul 14 11:09:27 Anyone got an account on the wiki? Jul 14 11:10:03 I'd like to contribute http://www.placard.fr.eu.org/~roland/tmp/manage-contacts.py Jul 14 11:10:14 For the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Vcf_Contacts page Jul 14 11:10:25 Setting up an acount is _really_ easy Jul 14 11:10:25 My script builds on the previous one, and adds: Jul 14 11:10:34 - a hack to get the DBUS session id Jul 14 11:10:48 - a "dump all contacts" feature Jul 14 11:10:48 Lo-lan-do: I think wurp2|away wrote it Jul 14 11:11:34 So if you need a more comfortable environment to tune your contacts, just dump, open in Emacs, and reload. Jul 14 11:13:17 This must be fixed: Jul 14 11:13:18 * Ensured security using a hypervisor Jul 14 11:13:18 * Abstracted data-persistence using an integrated API, working, e.g., over SQLLite, a la Core Data, with automatic protection for different sessions on different apps Jul 14 11:13:40 * Abstracted access to contact information, with an integrated API Jul 14 11:13:41 * Abstracted certain GUI effects (page lift, screen flip, etc.) via GUI extensions Jul 14 11:13:42 <`pwgen_8`> mickeyl|zzZZzz: ping Jul 14 11:14:03 * Abstracted multimedia tasks (Qt4.4's Phonon support does this, does Qtopia do it) Jul 14 11:14:03 * Created new widgets for phone use (ScreenWindow, NotebookWindow, SlideButton, ScreenKeyboard) etc. Jul 14 11:14:03 *Get some strong management in there, kill off two of the software stacks, NOW. Put all the developers on the remaining stack, the one that has the most promise. Jul 14 11:14:48 isprins: What's that? Jul 14 11:15:10 some suggestions Jul 14 11:15:33 isprins: You're being kinda rude, just to let you know. Jul 14 11:15:37 `pwgen_8`: just about to go for lunch. what'sup? Jul 14 11:19:00 <`pwgen_8`> mickey|zzZZzz: not important : got to lunch , ( i got the battery applet working ) Jul 14 11:19:57 how do i build an fso image with mokomakefile? just moko setup && moko fso-image? (after adjusting the OM_GIT_BRANCH) Jul 14 11:20:34 <`pwgen_8`> ecraven: use the OE branch Jul 14 11:20:58 `pwgen_8`: how? Jul 14 11:21:19 atm my OM_GIT_BRANCH is org.openembedded.dev Jul 14 11:21:39 <`pwgen_8`> edit moko makefile Jul 14 11:24:41 <`pwgen_8`> you need the openembedded monotone, not the git part, see http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_Started Jul 14 11:25:06 is shawn rutledge sometimes here? Jul 14 11:25:25 Does anyhone have some documentation on how to use the toolchain built with mokomakefile or bitbake ? Jul 14 11:26:20 <`pwgen_8`> Ainulinale: source the setup.env ; change to build ; and type for example "bitbake ncurses" Jul 14 11:27:15 That wasn't my question :-) Jul 14 11:27:15 I have .C files to compile Jul 14 11:28:08 <`pwgen_8`> there are little examples on hot to create a bb file for compilation in the OE wiki and somewehere in the openmoko wiki Jul 14 11:28:43 <`pwgen_8`> better use use a local overlay Jul 14 11:29:29 Any URL ? Jul 14 11:30:26 <`pwgen_8`> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Customizing_the_Openmoko_Distribution Jul 14 11:30:34 Thanks :-) Jul 14 11:32:01 <`pwgen_8`> there are also little examples but look a bit around in the openembedded.org/packages dir , there are often bb files, that fullfill your needs by copying and changeing a litte bit Jul 14 11:32:34 This URL is perfect Jul 14 11:33:24 <`pwgen_8`> i suggest useing a local overlay, or you got many problems updateing your environment Jul 14 11:33:38 Yep I got that thanks Jul 14 11:34:42 doc|home: why are our phones in phladelphia? :P Jul 14 11:35:56 guys, what are the odds of being late for ordering GTA02 after July 25th? i.e., how fast will the new production line be sold out? Jul 14 11:38:49 muikku Jul 14 11:49:39 vpv: yes, thx a lot, that works :) Jul 14 11:50:22 ayeuu: that's good news, thanks for testing, I can't try it on my phone until a few hours Jul 14 12:18:09 openmoko: 03john_lee * r4525 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/: Jul 14 12:18:09 openmoko: pyfso: python binding for the free smartphone framework Jul 14 12:18:09 openmoko: it doesn't stand for 'Put Your Frickin' Seat Belt On!' Jul 14 12:19:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3196e35a99ea 10/etc/dbus-1/system.d/frameworkd.conf: dbus configuration: fix framework object path. patch by Sudarshan S, thanks. Jul 14 12:53:37 anyone of the FSO team online and talking? Jul 14 12:55:27 <`pwgen_8`> FSO -> mickyl is responsible Jul 14 12:56:31 mickey|lunch? Jul 14 12:59:51 Lo-lan-do: You there? Jul 14 13:02:09 Yup. Jul 14 13:02:29 I've seen a thread on the list, I'm about to post a cleaned up version of my script to it. Jul 14 13:14:39 There, sent. Jul 14 13:27:06 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r06633d2e80b3 10/packages/initscripts/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove the ldconfig call from the right file. This revers/fixes up Jul 14 13:27:45 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r400d4d3a2fd4 10/ (11 files in 10 dirs): Merge commit 'origin/org.openmoko.asu.dev' into org.openmoko.asu.dev Jul 14 13:56:34 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r496359657b99 10/packages/initscripts/initscripts-1.0/openmoko/bootmisc.sh: [initscripts] Fork the bootmisc.sh for Openmoko Jul 14 14:01:04 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r483eef763126 10/packages/initscripts/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove the ldconfig call from the right file. This revers/fixes up Jul 14 14:03:29 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r30b82ff355d4 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb: [qtopia] Install a hint for ldconfig to find the Qtopia directory Jul 14 14:04:26 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r0e568e7c9df5 10/packages/glibc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [glibc] Split ld.so.conf up to allow to install other paths by other packages Jul 14 14:05:56 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * refa3f664bc53 10/packages/initscripts/ (initscripts-1.0/bootmisc.sh initscripts_1.0.bb): [initscripts] Remove ldconfig call from the initscript to gain a speed increase Jul 14 14:09:36 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r5c6775f48b4f 10/packages/efl1/etk_cvs.bb: remove etk patch Jul 14 14:09:46 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * re6695ae87478 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: illume - fix fullscreen windows with layering. Jul 14 14:09:53 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r73b0ed4f06f8 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: up EFL to include etk momentum scroll fixes. Jul 14 14:09:55 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb04797774f98 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: update illum config Jul 14 14:10:54 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r431293a61ed5 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up exposure to srcrev 55 to fix blank vs suspend timeout. Jul 14 14:12:36 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rc3ad7d601a73 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Add task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb Jul 14 14:12:44 build it an they will come Jul 14 14:15:15 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r7737221368ed 10/packages/meta/openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Add openmoko-asu-feed.bb Jul 14 14:19:00 sold em all? Jul 14 14:19:00 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r2c04df443ace 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [diversity] Add default map packages into task-openmoko-asu-feed Jul 14 14:20:17 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rd28107e85e59 10/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-feed-configs.bb: [openmoko] Change default feed repository Jul 14 14:23:21 guys, what are the odds of being late for ordering GTA02 after July 25th? i.e., how fast will the new production line be sold out? Jul 14 14:24:39 http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif Jul 14 14:24:59 Has a graph of speed of sales of the 850MHz freerunner on the shop Jul 14 14:25:24 As a guess, you've probably got a couple of days at the very least Jul 14 14:26:52 SpeedEvil, how did you get the data for the graph? Jul 14 14:27:18 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r0440c706380c 10/packages/initscripts/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Move the banner change to a openmoko specific file. And remove stuff we don't use Jul 14 14:27:24 You enter 1000 into the shop. Jul 14 14:27:31 click 'update' Jul 14 14:27:35 aah that way Jul 14 14:28:23 so you have been sitting and clicking update every hour in around five days Jul 14 14:29:12 HauDyrArb: occasionally Jul 14 14:30:45 * HauDyrArb pats SpeedEvil on the back *good work* Jul 14 14:31:38 SpeedEvil, i guess writing a script to do it for you is considered too fancy nowadays? :) Jul 14 14:31:58 It's annoyingly complex as I'd have to work out to send the cookie Jul 14 14:32:15 vs just clicking reload on a tab occasionally, and typing in a number Jul 14 14:32:24 Hah, a script. Youngsters nowadays! When I was your age... Jul 14 14:32:36 SpeedEvil, ;0 well at least you thought about that. ;0 Jul 14 14:32:43 get off my lawn Jul 14 14:32:47 damn i E-smile too much! Jul 14 14:33:44 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0a29e59e76b7 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Attempt at a stable kernel update. Jul 14 14:36:16 Goodnight Jul 14 14:40:00 http://youtube.com/watch?feature=dir&v=5ow8-_Vf82o Jul 14 14:40:22 This video or group may contain content that is inappropriate for some users, as flagged by YouTube's user community. Jul 14 14:40:28 damnit, wrong channel Jul 14 14:40:31 and no, it's not bad Jul 14 14:41:08 but its probably not sesamystreet :-) Jul 14 14:47:59 Early seasons of sesame street have warnings on them that they're not appropriate for children. Jul 14 14:48:42 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/magazine/18wwln-medium-t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine&oref=slogin Jul 14 14:48:42 yeah Avenue Q is better anyway Jul 14 14:51:12 GoldenHawk, lol, just to make my statement even more twisted Jul 14 14:51:58 :] Jul 14 14:59:55 still sitting at san pablo Jul 14 15:00:05 :( Jul 14 15:04:46 Hi, I've been writing up and howto for users to properly test their GPS. I think it might be useful to put up on the openmoko wiki. Is it needed? Jul 14 15:05:00 and=a Jul 14 15:07:17 IXian-probe: just add it! might be helpful for some people Jul 14 15:07:20 I need someone to read through it, it need both proofing and a critical eye towards the steps. Jul 14 15:07:40 IXian-probe: show me Jul 14 15:16:19 edistar: brb, posting to the wiki now. Jul 14 15:16:37 IXian-probe: ok Jul 14 15:17:17 edistar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Howto_Test_Your_GPS_with_agpsui Jul 14 15:20:30 all! Jul 14 15:21:06 IXian-probe: I think the best position for a fix is when the hole is at the bottom and the opposite side is at the top, upright as it seems Jul 14 15:21:44 probably, but it has to lay on a flat surface. easier to tell people. ^_^ Jul 14 15:21:53 hehe Jul 14 15:21:59 edistar: I need to fix formating hell though ;) Jul 14 15:22:09 heh Jul 14 15:22:22 IXian : I have bookmarked your how to test GPS for when my freerunner arrives. Looks good and not being a programmer I was looking for something beneficial to do test-wise. Jul 14 15:23:27 IXian-probe: looks good Jul 14 15:24:25 I'd s/NEMA/NMEA/ though. Jul 14 15:25:08 there are several mistakes in the article, I might go through it later on Jul 14 15:25:46 but otherwise it is very complete! Jul 14 15:26:04 Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil Jul 14 15:26:21 Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave Jul 14 15:29:26 edistar: yeah, I'm not that... fantastic with spelling and there are probably some factual mistakes too. :/ But never the less, if it helps clear the gps cloud-of-confusion it might do some god. :) Jul 14 15:30:45 has anyone done the gps soldering? im scared of killing something sensitive... the pin is so small :( Jul 14 15:31:58 send it back Jul 14 15:32:25 killer quality control Jul 14 15:32:31 it will take ages to get a new one i guess Jul 14 15:32:55 maybe get 1 with some new stuff maybe Jul 14 15:33:15 15 days is not good Jul 14 15:33:20 what kind of new stuff? Jul 14 15:38:24 * SpeedEvil beats mercilessly on IXian-probe's prose. Jul 14 15:41:16 hi i want to know about the GPS module on Openmoko does it have an inbuilt antenna or i need to connect one? Jul 14 15:41:17 :o Jul 14 15:41:22 yes Jul 14 15:41:23 Woo Hoo! My FR is in the Metroplex as of 3 hours ago... Jul 14 15:41:23 o: Jul 14 15:41:29 depending on your freerunner. Jul 14 15:41:31 Chockster! Jul 14 15:41:36 to be delivered tomorrow! Jul 14 15:41:36 Some have broken internal antennas. Jul 14 15:41:44 * Chocky is going to be carrying around $2000 in cash :| Jul 14 15:41:45 Speedevil, I am going to look into modding a freerunner Jul 14 15:41:51 * Chocky go to bank later. Jul 14 15:41:53 Dave: todo what? Jul 14 15:42:02 First of all, replacement antennas Jul 14 15:42:03 Dave: a ninja pirate robot? Jul 14 15:42:06 Mah. Jul 14 15:42:06 haha Jul 14 15:42:09 Boring. Jul 14 15:42:12 isn't that a bit contradictory Jul 14 15:42:15 speedevil, fine Jul 14 15:42:22 Dave: you clearly haven't spent much time in Japan Jul 14 15:42:31 Chocky, on the contrary :p Jul 14 15:42:39 I have spent several years there :) Jul 14 15:42:43 er, the right parts of Japan Jul 14 15:42:47 hahaha Jul 14 15:42:48 * SpeedEvil throws a fishermans wifes friend at Dave. Jul 14 15:42:48 * Chocky backs up Jul 14 15:42:54 hahaha, basically :P Jul 14 15:43:05 wives? Jul 14 15:43:06 shesh Jul 14 15:43:16 * Chocky suggests some grammar. Jul 14 15:43:18 So let's see the freerunner should do what? Jul 14 15:43:25 0 to 60 in under 3s? Jul 14 15:43:32 be able to make phone calls Jul 14 15:43:34 1 minutes. Jul 14 15:43:36 -s Jul 14 15:43:38 haha, and oh yeah, that :P Jul 14 15:43:49 there's no reason why the FR can't boot a hell of a lot faster Jul 14 15:43:58 pretty much Jul 14 15:44:05 store it's entire system state in flash? Jul 14 15:44:06 dammit, did I just volunteer myself? Jul 14 15:44:10 unless that's totally unreasonable Jul 14 15:44:11 its :p Jul 14 15:44:13 hahaha Jul 14 15:44:44 I'll need to go through all the bits to make any specific suggestions. Jul 14 15:44:53 maybe :) Jul 14 15:45:00 Wild and crazy ideas always welcome, as well :) Jul 14 15:45:02 * Chocky all talk Jul 14 15:45:12 Speedevil, I can imagine myself with a large UPS on my back Jul 14 15:45:17 and antenna on my head Jul 14 15:45:26 walking around with a tethered freerunner in hand. Jul 14 15:45:28 on top of a tin foil hat Jul 14 15:45:33 fuck the foil Jul 14 15:45:36 :P Jul 14 15:45:45 though yeah, nice attire, right? ;) Jul 14 15:45:51 if you didn't look crazy to begin with... Jul 14 15:45:53 YOU DO NOW! Jul 14 15:46:06 I don't look crazy, it's just everyone else Jul 14 15:46:37 suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure they do Jul 14 15:47:02 Entire state in flash is broken Jul 14 15:47:13 3M/second or so, 128M RAM, ... Jul 14 15:48:23 Speedvil? Jul 14 15:48:31 oh, haha Jul 14 15:48:33 IXian-probe: Slick writeup for GPS. Jul 14 15:48:48 bricode: thanks. Jul 14 15:48:49 so it'll take the better part of a minute to "hibernate"? Jul 14 15:48:59 bricode did something!? Jul 14 15:49:28 Does it come in a bag form, as well? :D Jul 14 15:49:37 Dave: unless you keep part of the system in flash already and only write the changes.... Jul 14 15:49:43 10 pounds of, 5 pound bag Jul 14 15:49:43 antenea hat Jul 14 15:50:06 sitwon, or come up with a more pragmatic design Jul 14 15:50:14 that too Jul 14 15:50:20 fractal antenna.. mm... Jul 14 15:50:27 like a separate bus (not necessarily dedicated) Jul 14 15:50:30 hello Jul 14 15:50:32 or more reaslistic flash Jul 14 15:50:35 realistic Jul 14 15:50:42 anyhoo, it's still a neat idea, anyway :) Jul 14 15:51:07 and I'd rather take a one minute suspend than a phone which will just ooze battery life until it dies a horrible hot short death Jul 14 15:51:10 :) Jul 14 15:51:15 Assuming it worked :] Jul 14 15:51:16 GPSy questoin... on the SS tab, should I be seeing anything on that graph or does it only change if you actually manage to connect to a satelite? Jul 14 15:51:18 still in san pablo>* Jul 14 15:51:29 right Jul 14 15:52:04 anyone interested in signing up for google apps? Jul 14 15:52:13 no, spammer Jul 14 15:52:25 sorry i'm not really trying to spam Jul 14 15:52:36 roh_moko@hyte.de Jul 14 15:52:36 Delay reason: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:: Jul 14 15:52:36 host mx.hyte.de [83.151.29.85]: 451 Could not complete sender verify callout Jul 14 15:52:39 whats up with that Jul 14 15:52:50 DNS is bust somewhere Jul 14 15:52:58 openmoko asked about a zip code error Jul 14 15:53:01 or some black listing Jul 14 15:53:02 eh? Jul 14 15:53:19 reply back and mail is not getting back Jul 14 15:53:22 replied Jul 14 15:53:27 what is the procedure to ship it back if you have a phone w/ faulty GPS? Jul 14 15:53:42 That sounds like a royal pain in the ass. Jul 14 15:54:19 augh. my new-built and new-flashed FSO image doesn't start sshd or X. Jul 14 15:54:21 That's Ass Sovereign to you Jul 14 15:54:33 :p Jul 14 15:54:42 Yes, your majesty :p Jul 14 15:55:35 so how is everyone? Jul 14 15:55:52 WE ARE WELL. Jul 14 15:55:54 I'll be the butt of my jester's jokes Jul 14 15:55:59 good Jul 14 15:56:15 do you have the freerunner already, dave? Jul 14 15:56:23 Well, generally speaking I'm ok. My knee hurts from an old injury, and I have slight headache this morning. Jul 14 15:56:49 I have a bruise from a RipStik, does that count? Jul 14 15:57:06 * SpeedEvil has toothache. Jul 14 15:57:13 When are they going to ship the phones? Jul 14 15:57:14 And an annoying burn from a soldering iron. Jul 14 15:57:15 Everything counts, Chocky. We're all people, and we all experience pain. Jul 14 15:57:40 carrar: real the wiki page Jul 14 15:57:44 er, read Jul 14 15:57:55 which page Jul 14 15:58:01 question Jul 14 15:58:34 does anyone have the w.e. phone? Jul 14 15:58:44 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 14 15:58:47 * SpeedEvil ponders a wii phone. Jul 14 15:58:55 * Chocky has no weekend phone. Jul 14 15:59:01 huh? Jul 14 15:59:30 the w.e phone is the plaid one right? Jul 14 15:59:43 it says it's the same as the freerunner Jul 14 15:59:59 yeah, I don't know anything about it Jul 14 16:00:10 and you can get it for free if you refer people to google apps Jul 14 16:00:16 * mwester wonders if someone is charging extra for a freerunner with a little paint. Jul 14 16:00:29 and i'm really trying to get the phone as a gift for someone Jul 14 16:00:38 i know nothing about these phones Jul 14 16:00:54 someone from the openmoko company referred me to it Jul 14 16:01:01 hrmm people after me have been shipped Jul 14 16:01:01 wtf Jul 14 16:02:19 Speedevil, oh gawd. Jul 14 16:02:23 That's just pure EVIL Jul 14 16:02:32 What's next, the iFree? Jul 14 16:02:39 oFree Jul 14 16:04:00 craptopia Jul 14 16:04:05 :[ Jul 14 16:04:10 what's wrong? Jul 14 16:04:11 Is there a friggin' pkg repo yet? Jul 14 16:04:18 qpkg Jul 14 16:04:40 * Dave searches for a learn python in 24min Jul 14 16:04:48 where you from dave? Jul 14 16:05:05 NY Jul 14 16:05:20 IXian-probe: Done a bit of copy-editing, and added a note that the FR should be in a vertical position. Jul 14 16:05:28 good Jul 14 16:05:51 IXian-probe: otherwise, youhave lousy sensitivity to a bit more than half teh satellites in the sky Jul 14 16:10:18 Does the kernel in fso-image have debug turned on for the SD card access, or is it just Very Noisy about the sd card during bootup? Jul 14 16:10:28 (I have a GTA01) Jul 14 16:12:19 FREECAM Jul 14 16:12:32 tonyg, noisy? Jul 14 16:13:39 hm. my freerunner and I think some other cellphones sometimes cause noise on my computer speakers. Both my work and home speakers Jul 14 16:13:48 Dave, it prints lots of SD-card related debug Jul 14 16:14:00 it's a couple of bursts over a few seconds Jul 14 16:14:16 * Chocky blames Linux Jul 14 16:14:34 Chocky: GSM phones do that when near speakers of all sorts Jul 14 16:14:38 aw. Jul 14 16:14:39 hah Jul 14 16:14:42 * Chocky slaps GSM Jul 14 16:14:45 weird Jul 14 16:14:47 It's usually tower updates or when a call is about to come in. Jul 14 16:15:02 Xaos, unrelated thing Jul 14 16:15:06 ahh Jul 14 16:15:08 nm Jul 14 16:15:09 and yeah I know of that though :P Jul 14 16:15:12 hahaha Jul 14 16:15:23 so what is it then? Jul 14 16:15:25 * Xaos slinks back into a corner and continues to work at his "real" job Jul 14 16:15:25 it's like OMFG SURPRISE!!1111 Jul 14 16:15:31 pwnies Jul 14 16:15:32 heehee Jul 14 16:15:35 yes, and apart from that? Jul 14 16:15:43 SNAP CRACKLE BOOM, phonecall. Jul 14 16:15:44 "CMD[OK] #72 op:CMD17 arg:0x0005e000 flags:0x08b5 retries:0 R0:0x00000900", "DAT[OK] #42 bsize:512 blocks:1 bytes:512", "req done (CMD17)" phew I'm sick of typing this all in Jul 14 16:15:47 :P Jul 14 16:15:49 heehee Jul 14 16:15:58 okay okay, tonyg, we get the point ;) Jul 14 16:16:03 * Dave prods speedevil Jul 14 16:16:23 so judgin by the #73 on the final repetition of the messages, it's doing whatever-is-noisy around 73 or 74 times. Jul 14 16:16:51 maybe I'll take out my sd card and see if it boots cleaner (or at least quieter) Jul 14 16:17:03 the power button no longer switches the machine off, even if you hold it for >20s Jul 14 16:17:05 damn it Jul 14 16:17:19 :[ Jul 14 16:18:12 Chocky: It's a harmonic in the GSM codec that creates a 216 Hz tone. Jul 14 16:18:22 rite. Jul 14 16:18:39 * Chocky slaps Dave for never giving straight answers Jul 14 16:19:19 booting without the SD card inserted gives ~20 failure messages during kernel initialisation, but during the rootfs startup it's quieter and clearly isn't trying to touch the sd card Jul 14 16:19:35 omfg Linux 2.6.26 Jul 14 16:19:37 bricode: I think it's a harmonic divergence in the flux capacitor. We need to re-align the dilithium crystals for a cleaner signal. Jul 14 16:19:45 ;-) Jul 14 16:20:26 have you checked the voltage: it needs to be 1.21 JigoWatts Jul 14 16:21:13 no wonder the battery life is so short Jul 14 16:21:57 Marf :-) Jul 14 16:26:01 LOL you can unlock the screen by pressing the aux button Jul 14 16:26:23 where is this LOL button? Jul 14 16:26:28 so, does mokomakefile's "make fso-image" actually boot and work for anyone here? Jul 14 16:26:30 and can we all disable it? Jul 14 16:26:46 mine is missing things like libz, libapm, libglib Jul 14 16:27:31 so it won't even start the sshd, since it can't generate the host key, because libz is missing when it tries to run dropbearkey Jul 14 16:27:53 Chocky, it's right besides the ROTFL-COPTER button Jul 14 16:28:10 And http://bash.org/./?5300 Jul 14 16:28:12 (same topic Jul 14 16:28:18 I think that's an optional extra Jul 14 16:28:43 bash.org is my hero Jul 14 16:28:55 Anybody here could help me to build a package for agps-online ? Jul 14 16:28:59 I don't know where to start Jul 14 16:29:34 why not download? Jul 14 16:29:43 Download ? Jul 14 16:30:28 the package Jul 14 16:30:51 where ? Jul 14 16:31:10 what? Jul 14 16:31:23 I imagine it's linked from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Howto_Test_Your_GPS_with_agpsui Jul 14 16:31:42 wait till super DAVE adds the teleport button Jul 14 16:32:14 then the masses will come Jul 14 16:32:27 SpeedEvil: I was speaking about agps-online Jul 14 16:32:30 * tonyg . o O (maybe it was the INHERIT += "rm_work" that screwed up the build of the rootfs image. Well it's disabled now, I'll see what that does when the endless build completes) Jul 14 16:32:31 not openmoko-agpsui Jul 14 16:32:34 Yay, new kernel in opkg upgrade! Jul 14 16:32:43 oh Jul 14 16:32:44 Will it fix the freezes? :-) Jul 14 16:34:46 ooooh! Jul 14 16:34:51 Mine is in town! Jul 14 16:35:05 Truebox are dropping it off in an hour or two! Jul 14 16:48:12 Weird thing. I had NMEA unknown messages (so I guess it received some signals), then cold reseted the GPS device, then they weren't there anymore. I rebooted, and here they are again. Jul 14 16:50:05 It does that Jul 14 16:50:21 It doesn't seem normal, does it ? Jul 14 16:52:22 umm is stuff like this possible ---> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2007/10/03/blackberry-9000-whispers-in-our-ear/comment-page-6/#comment-229771 Jul 14 16:52:51 It seems openmoko has a "glove" design (with opensource schematics available on line) Jul 14 16:53:25 stuff like what possible? Jul 14 16:53:26 could a physical keyboard be made part of a glove ?! Jul 14 16:53:34 yes !? Jul 14 16:54:24 http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=keyboard+glove&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2 Jul 14 16:54:29 TSLOG Jul 14 16:55:11 gaak!! Jul 14 16:55:25 me want one for my openmoko "dphone" Jul 14 16:55:31 :) Jul 14 16:55:41 http://www.coolbuzz.org/entry/hot-gadget-modtek-usb-warming-gloves/ Jul 14 16:57:29 anyone get their freerunner today? Jul 14 16:57:41 yes, when I picked it up off my desk Jul 14 16:57:42 Chocky, I think the idea there was to have the protective cover for a "touch screen" phone double as keyboard Jul 14 16:57:54 * cjb tomorrow Jul 14 16:58:11 GTA04 Jul 14 16:58:29 in another chan" Jul 14 16:58:31 : Jul 14 16:58:33 09:57 <@gagbro> openmoko is a better "statement", yes - iphone only state that you are gay Jul 14 16:58:46 openmoko states that you're a booger Jul 14 16:59:35 Arg0naut: Truebox are dropping mine off in an hour or two! Jul 14 16:59:44 hey don't bad mouth the gays by saying their the ones buying iphones, it's the "hipsters" we should be bad mouthing Jul 14 16:59:57 openmoko phone's "form factor" is very nice ... tough and rugged looking but sleek and sexy ... like angelina jolie :) Jul 14 17:00:05 Ah, I see we're discussing the technical details of the freerunner eh? I hear its booger module is 128k and faster than any other boogers on the market. Jul 14 17:00:30 GoldenHawk: Hell Yeah! Jul 14 17:00:43 *g* Jul 14 17:00:51 * mwester wishes people would cease attempts at comparisons until the device can actually make phone calls and send SMS messages. Jul 14 17:01:10 my geeky iphone friends said today "yeah well that openmoko thing has no built-in wifi" Jul 14 17:01:15 point is, wife say the carry case, with "OpenMoko" and said "That sounds like a booger" Jul 14 17:01:17 mwester: what? my friend got his freerunner and called/smsed me to lord over me perfectly fine :-( Jul 14 17:01:19 haha Jul 14 17:01:55 I'm surprised.. it doesn't make calls or send SMS? Jul 14 17:02:16 making calls, GPS, suspend/resume, wifi - choose one. Jul 14 17:02:17 GoldenHawk: it should work OK until you suspend with the software loaded onto it Jul 14 17:02:20 unknown_lamer: it works _mostly_, if you do not attempt to use suspend/resume on the pre-installed image. Jul 14 17:02:20 I thought they would have had to have made it do that in order to 'proof of concept' the hardware. Jul 14 17:02:29 GoldenHawk: and then he installed Qtopia last night and now he says it Works (tm) Jul 14 17:02:33 doe the neo1973 with the qtopia-x11 image suspend? Jul 14 17:02:38 mwester: is there a fix for the suspend problem? Jul 14 17:02:58 unknown_lamer: Okay makes sense. That's what i was expecting. It works but shouldn't be relied upon. Jul 14 17:03:14 nomeata: There are partial fixes, but it requires that all the software stacks understand suspend/resume, they do not yet. Jul 14 17:03:25 I'm imagining myself trying to make a 911 call, fumbling with the onscreen keyboard to do a 'modprobe thephone' Jul 14 17:03:36 And then that's all she wrote for me x.x Jul 14 17:03:41 GoldenHawk: it's not _quite_ that bad. Jul 14 17:03:42 I have some improvements on my site that make a big difference for the pre-installed (2007.2, aka gtk) image. Jul 14 17:03:45 "I said: I think you mean it has no camera or video :-P" Jul 14 17:03:54 GoldenHawk: but it's really not very polished. Jul 14 17:04:03 SpeedEvil: I'll be able to see for myself soon :) I ordered one. Jul 14 17:04:07 GoldenHawk: it's still at the rough chiseling out stage usingsledgehammers. Jul 14 17:04:17 hmm I wonder if my current phone can do e911 -- it's not even licensed for use in the US Jul 14 17:04:21 * unknown_lamer is an evil evil lawbreaking sinner Jul 14 17:04:28 * mjr wants to be SpeedEvil's sledgehammer Jul 14 17:04:59 has anyone here ever actually USED one of the projected keyboards like this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/ Jul 14 17:05:21 Xaos: I have, under OSX and Ubuntu. Jul 14 17:05:27 SpeedEvil: Is connecting to the internet through GSM fairly stable? Jul 14 17:05:41 GoldenHawk: It was when I did it. Jul 14 17:05:44 how is it? it seems the lack of tactile feedback would be annoying...is it? Jul 14 17:05:45 Neat. Jul 14 17:06:06 Xaos: You actually get used to it. It's got a feedback beep as you type, so you know when you've hit a key. Jul 14 17:06:09 now for someone to figure out how to make gsm+gprs registration work so gsm call notifications still come in while gprs is active... Jul 14 17:06:15 GoldenHawk: but I don't think that's well implemented on any stack Jul 14 17:06:29 Xaos: You also still get the tactile feedback of the surface you're using it on. Jul 14 17:06:30 bricode: it seems that keyboard would be an awesome addition to a FR then...eh? Jul 14 17:06:40 Xaos: Yes. Jul 14 17:06:41 just another $160 Jul 14 17:07:01 Xaos: I think its a personal thing; a friend of mine loves one of those, or something similar to that; I tried it and cannot use it because my fingers seem to be trained to require tactile feedback! Jul 14 17:07:48 mwester: that's what I was wondering about myself. you got one you want to send me since you don't like them? ;-) Jul 14 17:07:49 mwester: People also said you'd never type with your thumbs... Jul 14 17:08:05 SpeedEvil: ok, but I chose to write the FR should lie flat because it is easier to find a stable surface. Seriously, how can anyone put their FR in a stable vertical position without a clamp or some sort of clunky contraption? besides, the point is not to get the best possible reception, the point is to make people test their phone in the same way. Jul 14 17:08:17 I'm dreaming up projects for openmoko and I'm thinking of an MMO type game where it sends your GPS location.. and you can set up little bases on locations on the earth and try to defend them by occasionally bringing them resources and stuff :p Jul 14 17:08:20 IXian-probe: a cup works well Jul 14 17:08:32 Xaos: :) Nope - do like I did, and get a freind to spend the bucks instead! Jul 14 17:08:32 so rant Jul 14 17:08:43 a coffee cup full of coffee Jul 14 17:08:46 IXian-probe: the problem is that with it lying flat, it pixks up - well - maybe a third of the sky Jul 14 17:08:57 bricode: Yep, that's why I said "trained" -- I expect that time will make anyone used to alternates. Jul 14 17:08:57 does anyone know if UPS takes credit cards? Jul 14 17:08:58 mwester: LOL...been there...done THAT before! Jul 14 17:09:10 @the door Jul 14 17:09:30 IXian-probe: only the half of the sky towards the top of the phone well. And in many cases this may be only 2-3 sats. Jul 14 17:09:48 IXian-probe: with it pointed up, you get many more. Jul 14 17:09:57 SpeedEvil: well, then I'l add a note that people should use a cup. Yeah, I know.. it isn't the best solution with the FR flat. Well, I get 10-12 satelites on my rooftop with it flat ;) Jul 14 17:14:04 GoldenHawk, nice idea Jul 14 17:14:13 SpeedEvil: but thanks :) Jul 14 17:14:30 SpeedEvil: cup + pointing upwards added :) Jul 14 17:14:44 IXian-probe: It's just that it's more variable with it horizontal. Jul 14 17:15:00 It may well work fine - but if we're trying to get themost accurate figures... Jul 14 17:15:10 comparable figures I mean Jul 14 17:16:03 the guy who came to pick up his phone was just a bit toooo excited Jul 14 17:16:19 all kinds of nutters :o Jul 14 17:16:30 Someone was overly excited about an openmoko phone? Jul 14 17:16:34 aye Jul 14 17:16:37 SpeedEvil: np :) Jul 14 17:16:53 Chocky: I can't understand why. ^_^ Jul 14 17:17:32 I think it's something worth getting very very excited about. There's lots of computers out there that have architectures that are fully documented and open, but this is the first one with this kind of capability that fits in your palm. Jul 14 17:17:49 there's excitement, then there are nutters. trust me on this ;-) Jul 14 17:17:54 Heh okay :p Jul 14 17:18:10 raving.... una kind of mad? ;) Jul 14 17:18:15 I was "excited" enough to plan the group buy and watch the lists since September, but still ;-) Jul 14 17:18:35 let's say there's a certain geek element to the people who have been to collect the phones Jul 14 17:18:37 big beard, has a katana, just fought of intelectual property Ninjas? ;) Jul 14 17:19:02 No, Neal Stephenson doesn't know jack about geekiness Jul 14 17:19:30 I have returned. Jul 14 17:19:41 * IXian-probe screams Run! Jul 14 17:19:43 ;) Jul 14 17:19:45 >:) Jul 14 17:21:15 Xaos, saw it used at a tech show once Jul 14 17:21:23 Xaos, didn't work too well :) Jul 14 17:26:37 Chocky, e.g. could something like this: http://www.sureda.org/Portfolio/Electronics/OpenMoko/Accesories/NeoSkin/OpenMoko-NeoSkin-MainFrame001.htm Jul 14 17:27:02 hous a physical keyboard Jul 14 17:27:15 <- notta keyboard expert Jul 14 17:27:27 :) Jul 14 17:27:51 would be cool if it could ... best of both worlds and all that :) Jul 14 17:32:47 people so dumb. "you piad $400 for phone?" Yes, but how much did _your_ phone cost incl $50/month for 2 years? Jul 14 17:32:50 er, paid Jul 14 17:33:58 * mwester calculates the cost of his openmoko phone: $400 + debug board + hundreds of hours of his labor to make it work * value of mwester's time = some number FAR larger than a barrell full of iphones. Jul 14 17:34:13 You live in the US, Chocky ? Jul 14 17:34:16 aye Jul 14 17:34:23 mwester: hehe, sounds about right Jul 14 17:34:25 Chocky: yea, my cousin was like "dude it's just a phone".. I was like "it's a portable Linux computer with a GSM modem" Jul 14 17:34:27 yes, but will the barrell of iphones blend? Jul 14 17:34:38 Chocky: you better believe it Jul 14 17:34:57 Chocky: so what mobile contract are you on? Jul 14 17:35:12 * mwester thinks sitwon's reasoning is closer to the truth as far as value goes Jul 14 17:35:14 right now, none. will probably get $100 T-Mobile PAYG. Jul 14 17:35:24 yaeh Jul 14 17:35:29 wife has $40/month with T-mobile, but that's up for renewal Jul 14 17:35:44 Chocky: the $100 includes a phone? Jul 14 17:35:57 no, that's 1000 minutes Jul 14 17:36:39 Because this discussion was done to death on the -community mailing list. And as I understand it, if you want a contract you don't get any discount for bringing your own mobile. Jul 14 17:36:48 korrect Jul 14 17:37:02 anyway, the PAYG isn't a contract as such Jul 14 17:37:14 pay-as-you-go plans? Jul 14 17:37:18 yus. Jul 14 17:37:22 yeah Jul 14 17:37:23 No, it's not Jul 14 17:37:25 There is no contract. Jul 14 17:37:26 That's the poiint Jul 14 17:37:33 :p Jul 14 17:37:39 didn't I just say that? Jul 14 17:37:41 * Dave shows his bucket of prepaid SIMs Jul 14 17:37:49 I like them :D Jul 14 17:37:53 An iPhone genuinely is "free" if you want that contract Jul 14 17:37:59 can i put a bash script into the Appmanager ? Jul 14 17:38:02 technically there _is_ a contract - there has to be - you're agreeing to certain service, but it's not the typical 2 year thing. Jul 14 17:38:05 Or discounted or whatever Jul 14 17:38:33 unlock your iphone Jul 14 17:41:31 Oooh! This thing is loverly. The plastic of the case is really nice Jul 14 17:41:31 haha that's so hot Jul 14 17:41:40 plastic? case? Jul 14 17:41:44 What on earth are you talking about :p Jul 14 17:41:54 Dave loves his nekkid mokos. Jul 14 17:41:54 mickey|lunch: ping Jul 14 17:42:12 yas :D Jul 14 17:42:14 ecraven! Jul 14 17:42:37 Chocky, I enjoy doing synchronous distributed updating on my freerunners now that I've built a small little system for it :] Jul 14 17:42:53 But imagine a beowulf cluster of them. Jul 14 17:42:55 what's up Dave? got neod recompiled? Jul 14 17:42:58 Oooh! Jul 14 17:43:03 although I still laugh because my 0th freerunner is essentually just a local package repository they hit off of to synch :p Jul 14 17:43:10 ecraven, nah sorry Jul 14 17:43:11 It shows proper Linux boot messages Jul 14 17:43:13 been to busy Jul 14 17:43:13 ! Jul 14 17:43:25 I have to learn python first :P Jul 14 17:43:48 Chocky, yes, that would indeed be a force to be reckoned with :p Jul 14 17:43:50 Dave: hehe, i'm trying to get a Scheme implementation running, and replace Python with Scheme! Jul 14 17:43:51 muwahahahaha Jul 14 17:44:09 I've already contemplated how utterly lame it would be to do a proof-of-concept FR RAID setup :P Jul 14 17:44:14 ecraven, gah! Jul 14 17:44:16 haha Jul 14 17:44:24 I have to write a simple client app in py today. :| Jul 14 17:44:55 * Dave bribes ecraven to do it for him. Jul 14 17:45:15 Dave: i don't know any python ;-p Jul 14 17:45:26 gah! Jul 14 17:45:32 Well, some help YOU are! :P Jul 14 17:45:33 hah Jul 14 17:45:45 * Dave installs perl on ecraven's freerunner. Jul 14 17:45:48 ecraven: chicken already runs Jul 14 17:45:58 ecraven: guile ought to compile fine (it is known to work on eabi ARM) Jul 14 17:46:13 ecraven: now if only OE did not exist and this were just running Debian :-( Jul 14 17:46:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Jul 14 17:46:52 unknown_lamer: do you have an ipkg for chicken? Jul 14 17:47:15 i'd love to get chicken and cairo (and sdl) working, then we can start on some nice gui stuff ;) Jul 14 17:47:26 Dave: i don't use write-only languages :-p Jul 14 17:47:40 What!? :P Jul 14 17:48:00 ecraven: ooh nice, more cairo and sdl please! :) Jul 14 17:48:11 well, first chicken, then the rest Jul 14 17:48:15 unknown_lamer: there is a small movement to do that :) Jul 14 17:48:21 bagawk? Jul 14 17:49:02 Hmmmn.... using the default image that comes in the box, on the Home screen it continues saying "Registering..." - does that indicate it might not like my SIM? Jul 14 17:49:16 In other news... ROFLCOPTER. Jul 14 17:49:39 unknown_lamer: i think oe is a better basis, if FSO get their framework done, we can use that, chicken has dbus ;) Jul 14 17:49:52 opkg: fork failed Jul 14 17:49:54 Segmentation fault Jul 14 17:50:01 Wonderful! Jul 14 17:50:55 http://xkcd.com/371/ Jul 14 17:51:35 Isn't that in the topic? Jul 14 17:51:37 ecraven: someone does Jul 14 17:51:44 Oh, I suppose not. Jul 14 17:51:55 unknown_lamer: there's already people installing debian on their freerunners. Jul 14 17:51:59 \o/ Jul 14 17:52:12 unknown_lamer: problem is, i haven't found that someone yet ;( Jul 14 17:52:13 Dave: yes the issue is that the openmoko software is not packaged for Debian Jul 14 17:52:16 and a small movement, I believe, to create a small stable branch of it to the platform. Jul 14 17:52:23 unknown_lamer: so :D Jul 14 17:52:33 I'd like to use my phone as a phone :-) Jul 14 17:52:48 unknown_lamer: build it all in Scheme! Jul 14 17:52:50 hah! Jul 14 17:52:52 unknown_lamer: Can't be done. Jul 14 17:52:54 ecraven: kek Jul 14 17:52:57 I wonder how much effort would be required to build an opkg alien method Jul 14 17:53:04 rivalarrival: why not? Jul 14 17:53:06 Not that difficult. Jul 14 17:53:13 rivalarrival: if it is packaged for OE it can be packaged for anything Jul 14 17:53:37 unknown_lamer: Because everybody is too busy using trying to see what it CAN do. Jul 14 17:53:51 I have a bit of an internal conflict: effort of opkg alien method vs repackaging OM software for Debian vs making clisp/clc/asdf/lkjdsflkjdsf;jsdf packages for OE Jul 14 17:53:53 and the phone aspect is just not sexy. Jul 14 17:54:12 the phone aspect is plenty interesting Jul 14 17:54:38 unknown_lamer: if you rename an ipkg to dpkg, you'll find that it'll install on debian ARM systems. Jul 14 17:54:49 yeah :D Jul 14 17:54:51 at least that's what I've been told... Jul 14 17:54:59 most of the time... Jul 14 17:55:57 ooo Jul 14 17:56:04 so what the hell is the point of bitbake Jul 14 17:56:13 To build a distro Jul 14 17:56:23 it's like hi here is our crappy underdocumented build system versus a wonderfully documented and tested build system Jul 14 17:56:23 is openembedded a debian clone? Jul 14 17:56:28 Debian is fine for building distros ... Jul 14 17:56:41 Debian *is* a distro Jul 14 17:56:46 And bitbake can run on Debian Jul 14 17:56:48 hcoop runs our own hcoopized-Debian using the tools in Debian for maintaing minor forks Jul 14 17:56:55 but Debian does not build distros Jul 14 17:56:55 is openmoko linux a debian clone? Jul 14 17:57:05 no, rather an openembedded system Jul 14 17:57:08 or not? Jul 14 17:57:35 knowing that ipkg stuff is semi-compatible with dpkg is nice Jul 14 17:57:37 the distro used by OM is "angstrom", which is similar in many ways to debian, because the core devs use and like debian. Jul 14 17:57:42 so its not debian? Jul 14 17:57:46 No Jul 14 17:57:46 I'm guessing there would be horrendous dependency issues but ... maybe not Jul 14 17:59:27 horrendous - no, but it can get bad. just think Fedora RPM hell Jul 14 17:59:40 bah Jul 14 17:59:56 oh, did I mention? Fedora sucks. Jul 14 18:00:13 hm.. i might even try this, debian has a working chicken for arm Jul 14 18:00:24 * Chocky wonders what chicken is Jul 14 18:00:27 real programmers write their own libraries.. with a mechanical switch! Real programmers don't need dependencies! Jul 14 18:00:30 ^_^ Jul 14 18:00:39 yes, but users need dependencies Jul 14 18:00:43 like openoffice? Jul 14 18:00:48 bah. Humbug! Jul 14 18:00:50 ;) Jul 14 18:00:57 1000111110100001111110000001110011110000001111111 <----- a library for IXian-probe Jul 14 18:01:54 Any idea where the proper place to configure power_on states on boot are located? Jul 14 18:02:31 the fs.o stuff looks nice ... Jul 14 18:02:39 fs.o? Jul 14 18:02:43 ah, FSO Jul 14 18:02:59 cl-dbus + mcclim + elephant + fs.o -> who needs OE and the other OM stuff ... just package the fs.o daemons and live in a nice Debian and Lisp only worlds Jul 14 18:02:59 I am unsure, and the only catch is the state needs to be set before or as soon as possible when INIT runs. Jul 14 18:03:12 unknown_lamer :D Jul 14 18:03:23 except grrrrrr sbcl threading on windows was chosen over clisp threading in general Jul 14 18:03:30 and of course the sbcl student has yet to produce anything Jul 14 18:03:40 and so that was the dumbest idea ever and a waste of a lispnyc slot Jul 14 18:03:57 nevermind that supporting threads on Windows is dumb they can just pay $50k for a proprietary Lisp or switch to a real OS Jul 14 18:05:18 POP goes the freerunner. Jul 14 18:05:25 POP3? Jul 14 18:05:43 unknown_lamer: would sbcl run on the neo? Jul 14 18:06:03 ecraven: nope there is no SBCL ARM backend Jul 14 18:06:28 ecraven: you pretty much have a choice between ECL, GCL, and clisp Jul 14 18:06:35 hmm, reading about stuff like this battery sleeve for the iphone makes me wonder about the ability to extend the freerunner via similar solutions. it seems people are willing to bulk up their phones after all ;) Jul 14 18:06:41 ecraven: the first two are kind of crap (no asdf or clc support among other things) Jul 14 18:06:53 mwester: ;) Jul 14 18:07:03 ecraven: the latter works (I have it built on the emulator), but packaging it is ... a PITA and I am lazy Jul 14 18:07:09 unknown_lamer: i think i'd prefer scheme anyway.. if it only had decent libraries ;-/ Jul 14 18:07:33 battery sleeve? Jul 14 18:07:37 ecraven: to cross compile the package you have to build a native clisp, build the foreign clisp, stop the build before doing the initial memory image, build the fasls with the native clisp, package them, and then finish the build in the postinst Jul 14 18:07:37 iphone? Jul 14 18:07:42 unknown_lamer: i'm trying to get debian installed, then i can just use that Jul 14 18:07:45 ecraven: which naturally requires ... lots of fucking work Jul 14 18:07:54 unknown_lamer: that's unbearably disgusting! Jul 14 18:08:04 just use the fucking phone :P Jul 14 18:08:07 unknown_lamer: i haven't heard too many good things about clisp Jul 14 18:08:12 ecraven: the alternative is to get Debian working with a huge image in qemu and then waiting several *weeks* for OE to build on ARM natively ... Jul 14 18:08:18 ecraven: which is equally painful Jul 14 18:08:29 ecraven: oh no clisp is wonderful it is very lightweight and plenty fast Jul 14 18:08:31 but less work :P Jul 14 18:08:31 haha Jul 14 18:08:59 Dave: I think about the same honestly Jul 14 18:09:07 :\ Jul 14 18:09:11 That's pretty assy. Jul 14 18:09:21 I'm going to get it packaged eventually Jul 14 18:09:23 * mwester brings a bucket and a bar of soap the channel Jul 14 18:09:35 I'm blocked right now on gnus taking forever to move 4000 spams to the classifying folder grr Jul 14 18:09:41 unknown_lamer: i presume there's a debian package for arm clisp? Jul 14 18:09:46 ecraven: yes Jul 14 18:09:53 unknown_lamer: multithreaded emacs to the rescue! Jul 14 18:10:03 ecraven: reimplementation of all of emacs to the rescue! Jul 14 18:10:10 let's all use climacs and hermes... Jul 14 18:10:10 that's what I was gonna suggest -- just have the system boot up into emacs. Jul 14 18:10:14 unknown_lamer: if you start, i'll help ;) Jul 14 18:10:21 hi all, Jul 14 18:10:28 emacs is hard to use without a keyboard.. Jul 14 18:10:42 ecraven: my idea is kind of like booting into emacs -- pure lisp frontend to the phone Jul 14 18:10:43 what is the difference between openmoko and limo? Jul 14 18:10:56 unknown_lamer: i'm thinking pure Scheme :) Jul 14 18:10:58 ecraven: which is why threading in clisp would be nice -- run one copy of clisp and each app in its own thread Jul 14 18:11:06 unknown_lamer: but i'd settle for lisp too ;) Jul 14 18:11:31 ecraven: CL wins for me because mcclim is very nice and ... I know of no Scheme equivalent to Elephant (automagic orthogonal persistence!) Jul 14 18:12:01 ecraven: and I'd like to make a touchscreen-application-frame and a library for building automagically persistent applications in general Jul 14 18:12:12 unknown_lamer: i'd like to have something like CLIM in scheme some day.. and i heard about elephant, but never read any details Jul 14 18:12:19 unknown_lamer: that would be great Jul 14 18:16:57 debootstrapping debian now.. does a neo debian setup fit onto 500 mb? Jul 14 18:17:43 ecraven: unless things have changed greatly you should be able to get a base Debian in 50M or so Jul 14 18:17:56 ecraven: no X or anything other than the base GNU system, but ... yeah Jul 14 18:19:06 unknown_lamer: i need X, or sdl Jul 14 18:19:17 and i heard framebuffer is *slow* on the neo Jul 14 18:19:25 ecraven: X is not so big you ought to be able to get a reasonable setup in under 500M Jul 14 18:19:59 ecraven: as a comparison my entire workstation uses 3G of disk -- with eight years of accumulated cruft and full toolchains for a bunch of languages Jul 14 18:20:03 Why don't we just put all this creative effort into the SHR and get a really awesome (and functional) PHONE? Jul 14 18:20:16 because I hate C Jul 14 18:20:17 Xaos: too sensible Jul 14 18:20:20 people want to hack Jul 14 18:20:25 hack hack hack Jul 14 18:20:28 hack on the SHR... Jul 14 18:20:30 C is not sensible it is probably what has held the platform back for so long Jul 14 18:20:33 every bit of C must be eliminated Jul 14 18:20:34 unknown_lamer: hater :p Jul 14 18:20:37 un oh. C rant ;-) Jul 14 18:20:40 Xaos: i don't like the 2007.2 toolset Jul 14 18:20:43 Death be to you! Jul 14 18:20:43 what are we replacing C with? Jul 14 18:20:56 scheme or lisp, of course :) Jul 14 18:20:58 I believe they want Scheme. Jul 14 18:21:04 ecraven: then hack on the FSO Jul 14 18:21:07 Which isn't terrible, but retarded. Jul 14 18:21:07 a decent language with a GC, closures, etc Jul 14 18:21:08 C++, Objective C, C# Jul 14 18:21:10 or the ASU... Jul 14 18:21:23 unknown_lamer: so basically, p6 or hs? ;D Jul 14 18:21:26 or on something that will run on all three Jul 14 18:22:06 personally, I'll probably be spending some time getting up to speed in python (or maybe attempting to compile FBReader or Gnumeric which I really want on the FR) Jul 14 18:22:51 Xaos: i'll do that once the fso is a bit further along Jul 14 18:23:01 *hissssssssssssSS* Jul 14 18:23:18 mmm fbreader that is a must Jul 14 18:23:27 pesky python Jul 14 18:24:26 * nuclear_eclipse likes Python Jul 14 18:25:13 just starting up in Python...work has been bugging me for a year (plus) to learn it because all our AppDev guys use it... Jul 14 18:25:23 now I have a REAL reason to learn it ;-) Jul 14 18:25:36 hehe Jul 14 18:25:53 I've been using FBReader on my Nokia 770 for a while and can't live without it. Jul 14 18:27:17 nuclear_eclipse teach me python, please. Jul 14 18:28:01 heh Jul 14 18:28:20 Dave: http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html :P Jul 14 18:28:33 I've been reading it for the last ten minutes. Jul 14 18:28:39 It's way too comprehensive. Jul 14 18:28:46 lol Jul 14 18:28:57 it's actually very simple Jul 14 18:29:01 openmoko phone's "form factor" is very nice ... tough and rugged looking but sleek and sexy ... like angelina jolie :) Jul 14 18:29:06 Well, come on, coming from several similar languages, just a .diff would be sufficient to get me started. Jul 14 18:29:10 indenting -> control blocks Jul 14 18:29:12 oops Jul 14 18:29:25 nuclear_eclipse, I just hope the whitespace analism doesn't drive me insane. Jul 14 18:29:25 less punctuation / more readable -> pythonic Jul 14 18:29:29 yeah fucking python Jul 14 18:29:30 and that's it ;) Jul 14 18:29:38 closer to hs Jul 14 18:29:51 Dave: it's actually quite natural once yo get used to it Jul 14 18:30:13 perhaps Jul 14 18:30:16 Well, the indenting, that is. Jul 14 18:30:22 Apple has the "iPhone" ... OpenMoko has MokoMojo Jul 14 18:30:23 Plus your editor can do that for you. Jul 14 18:30:26 :) Jul 14 18:30:34 Sorry if this little of topic, but is there any application for linux to control 3G data cards? Jul 14 18:30:42 I hope all the function names aren't too retarded. Jul 14 18:30:51 the other nice thing is that just about everything you need for general work is available as a default python module Jul 14 18:30:53 nuclear_eclipse, mostly I always forget to import shit. Jul 14 18:30:59 I'm too used to working with a robust core. :) Jul 14 18:31:11 Dave: meltdown? Jul 14 18:31:16 haha 'pass' Jul 14 18:31:20 Chocky: EJECT THE CORE!!111 Jul 14 18:31:22 heh dave http://xkcd.com/353/ Jul 14 18:31:40 kd8ikt, is that your job here? Jul 14 18:31:47 lol Jul 14 18:32:07 gimmie a break i just woke up Jul 14 18:32:11 sampling medicines? Jul 14 18:32:17 Dave: check out this tutorial/reference...I'm finding it helpful http://www.ibiblio.org/swaroopch/byteofpython/files/120/byteofpython_120.pdf Jul 14 18:32:17 kd8ikt: lame :P Jul 14 18:32:19 anyone? Jul 14 18:32:26 ~faq Jul 14 18:32:27 it has been said that faq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ Jul 14 18:32:30 but of course, I already program/script, YMMV Jul 14 18:32:33 omg xkcd always gets it right :( Jul 14 18:32:51 anyone have a freerunner and feel like doing a quick test for me? Jul 14 18:33:06 cb22: depends on what the test is :P Jul 14 18:33:22 drop from incremental feet until it breaks Jul 14 18:33:25 nuclear_eclipse: ssh cpu usage Jul 14 18:33:26 jajajajaj Jul 14 18:33:34 sorry, lol Jul 14 18:33:44 Yeah the best way would just for me to find a simple networking program, and deconstruct it :) Jul 14 18:33:46 I prefer the jaja, TBH Jul 14 18:33:50 I could speed off from there ;) Jul 14 18:33:59 cb22: don't have access to that right now, sorry, sysadmin locks down my workstation something fierce Jul 14 18:34:20 you should work somewhere where you design the routers. Jul 14 18:34:27 You can't talk about XKCD and python without this one: http://xkcd.com/413/ Jul 14 18:35:49 someone care to speculate what our routers run? Jul 14 18:36:02 beos? :P Jul 14 18:36:09 bzzt. Jul 14 18:36:29 eww Jul 14 18:36:30 hi Jul 14 18:36:35 Stroller: tried the other sim? Jul 14 18:36:40 I'd be impressed if it was something like Monowall/pfSenne :P Jul 14 18:36:40 how can I get the QTopia media player running ? Jul 14 18:36:45 nuclear_eclipse, are parentheses generally optional? Jul 14 18:36:48 mine are openwrt Jul 14 18:36:52 Dave: yes Jul 14 18:36:56 oh, good. Jul 14 18:36:58 openwrt is closer, but not correct Jul 14 18:37:02 otherwise, I'd stab somebody Jul 14 18:37:07 dd-wrt Jul 14 18:37:08 I mean, this isn't Lisp, guys! Jul 14 18:37:10 tomato? Jul 14 18:37:20 dd-wrt has bad GPL karma. avoid. Jul 14 18:37:21 Dave: best practices: http://www.fantascienza.net/leonardo/ar/python_best_practices.html Jul 14 18:37:29 amen Chocky Jul 14 18:37:44 uggh Jul 14 18:37:49 no, not tomato. that's not much better. openwrt pwns (very similar to OpenMoko OE goodness) but that's not it Jul 14 18:37:51 more evangelist preachings? Jul 14 18:38:28 I think it's funny Jul 14 18:38:35 Dave: no, just a list of 'this is better that this' for various randow stuffs that most people new to Python don't 'get' because they think in other languages... Jul 14 18:38:39 Their examples are highly contradictory. Jul 14 18:38:43 Though thanks :) Jul 14 18:38:55 you all lose. It's Debian Jul 14 18:39:14 :D Jul 14 18:39:19 * Dave hugs debian Jul 14 18:39:27 hey guys Jul 14 18:39:28 * Sonicadvance humps Debian Jul 14 18:39:36 I ran Debian on my router once, wanted to pull my eyes out after a day, and moved to pfSense. Jul 14 18:39:37 :P Jul 14 18:39:45 yeah well Jul 14 18:39:54 uh huh. Jul 14 18:40:03 but I run Debian/Ubuntu on all my PC's Jul 14 18:40:10 :] Jul 14 18:40:10 could someone please tell me if freerunner is ready for end-users or is it just in a development phase? Jul 14 18:40:12 See :p Jul 14 18:40:14 and Debian on my servers Jul 14 18:40:18 chocky wat is/ Jul 14 18:40:18 development Jul 14 18:40:19 :D Jul 14 18:40:24 * Dave high-fives nuclear_eclipse Jul 14 18:40:31 Skorzen: the hardware is ready, the software is not Jul 14 18:40:40 and when will it be? Jul 14 18:40:48 My laptop, DVR, Desktop, Phone all run Debian. ktb Jul 14 18:40:50 TBA Jul 14 18:40:53 u guys gonna have to get busy Jul 14 18:41:12 and router Jul 14 18:41:21 Skorzen: that's too simple a question. If you just need a phone and want Linux on it then you can safely buy now and it'll work Jul 14 18:41:42 Stroller, that's the point Jul 14 18:42:00 and when it suffers an upgrade i can reach it? Jul 14 18:42:01 Skorzen: fancy features aren't ready yet, but basic calls are. Everything that is developed for Openmoko in the future will run on the Freerunner Jul 14 18:42:10 Stroller: Not if you want a phone that will consistently ring when people call you and linux goodies at the same time Jul 14 18:42:42 Regardless, I still think that using whitespace alone to determine the end of a function block is fail. Jul 14 18:42:44 constantly ring? Jul 14 18:42:57 Even FSO has been flaking on me lately, but I'm pretty sure that's because I've been hacking on it Jul 14 18:42:59 yay, first useful patch produced and filed (https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1606) Jul 14 18:43:05 Howdy, Wurp. Jul 14 18:43:15 Dave: howdy Jul 14 18:43:33 (I like the Python Way of dealing with indention & scope :-) Jul 14 18:43:34 Dave: I tend to use a #end to mark the end of functions longer than about 8-12 lines Jul 14 18:43:52 wurp2|semi_away: basic phone functions work fine with one of the images, don't they? I didn't mention to Skorzen full Linux goodies NOW Jul 14 18:44:05 right Jul 14 18:44:28 and which functions are that? phone calling, sms sending/receiving? Jul 14 18:44:36 address books and so on Jul 14 18:44:37 Stroller: I think with FSO you get stable phone functionality. But it is VERY basic. No call history, no contact list, no nothing. Jul 14 18:44:39 Skorzen: yes Jul 14 18:44:41 wurp2, sure it's nice, but it's clearly flimsy. Jul 14 18:44:44 Stroller: have you tried the newer sim? Jul 14 18:44:47 that's good then Jul 14 18:44:50 Everything relies on the programmer being a "good boy" Jul 14 18:44:53 doc|work: sorry - didn't see your message before Jul 14 18:44:57 np Jul 14 18:45:14 doc|work: Arg0naut just notified me of it Jul 14 18:45:19 Dave: regarding indention, I would say other languages rely on the programmer being a good boy. Jul 14 18:45:20 :) Jul 14 18:45:53 wurp2, pfft. Jul 14 18:45:56 doc|work: no, I haven't. I stuck the phone onto charge, so I don't want to remove the battery until it's done so. The quick-start says give it a full charge the first time. Jul 14 18:45:58 conformist bastards. :p Jul 14 18:46:16 conformist communist calamatist bastards Jul 14 18:46:18 Of course, it is true that you miss out on vi brace matching Jul 14 18:46:19 Dave: long-battery-life-liking-bastards Jul 14 18:46:31 Stroller: fair enough Jul 14 18:46:43 doc|work: heh. I've gotten used to not plugging in my phone except at night now Jul 14 18:46:54 Dave: I see the meaningful indentation as a way for me to be able to better read other people's code, because it still "has to" meet the proper indentation to even parse/function correctly Jul 14 18:47:00 Dave: it might be his lack of conforming which caused the problem :) Jul 14 18:47:17 wurp2|semi_away: nice! which build? mine should be arriving tomorrow all things going well. Jul 14 18:48:19 doc|work: FSO Jul 14 18:48:24 cool Jul 14 18:48:25 doc|work: Now hacked with some SHR stuff Jul 14 18:48:31 excellent :) Jul 14 18:48:32 Since we obviously have a full house of Pythoners, could anyone help me get the getContactList method working? :-) Jul 14 18:48:55 What's FSO mean? Jul 14 18:48:58 Lo-lan-do: I'm not sure that there isn't something wrong with that one Jul 14 18:48:59 trumped by a royal flush of C programmersw Jul 14 18:49:01 ~FSO Jul 14 18:49:01 freesmartphone.org Jul 14 18:49:02 from memory, fso is the freesmartphone.org software release. It includes the backbone software for the phone hardware (and some other things) and a working dialer, and not much else. Jul 14 18:49:08 Anyhoo, haha Jul 14 18:49:20 Hm. Jul 14 18:49:26 wurp2|semi_away: I couldn't find the syntax for the queries. Jul 14 18:49:30 Lo-lan-do: All the methods I've seen for pulling contacts do it by index, until they get back a terminator Jul 14 18:49:47 I either got an empty result or "cannot complete request" :-/ Jul 14 18:50:12 Please hang up and try again? :D Jul 14 18:50:16 Lo-lan-do: Look in the code referred to by http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Sim_Contacts Jul 14 18:50:22 * nuclear_eclipse needs to learn dbus soon to start working on FSO apps.... Jul 14 18:50:36 nuclear_eclipse: It's super trivial Jul 14 18:50:46 nuclear_eclipse: Just look at the same stuff I told to Lo-lan-do Jul 14 18:50:50 wurp2|semi_away: have any good guides to it? Jul 14 18:50:56 wurp2|semi_away: I enhanced thad script, but I couldn't get a list of existing contacts. Jul 14 18:51:42 wurp2|semi_away: So I ended up with the hack that is http://www.smurfy.de/files/neo/manage-contacts Jul 14 18:51:50 Super trivial? :P Jul 14 18:51:55 hah! Jul 14 18:51:58 Lo-lan-do: Really? That script gets them... Jul 14 18:52:00 * Dave challenges wurp2 Jul 14 18:52:02 Lo-lan-do: What was your problem? Jul 14 18:52:42 wurp2|semi_away: I want to get the contacts from the eds database, not from the SIM Jul 14 18:52:51 Lo-lan-do: Yeah Jul 14 18:52:59 Lo-lan-do: Oh, wait, sorry Jul 14 18:53:19 Lo-lan-do: There was another one that fished for them with getContact(1), getContact(2), etc. Jul 14 18:53:37 Hmm. I thought that only took uids as a parameter. Jul 14 18:53:39 nuclear_eclipse: No, I just cut & pasted the example stuff & played with it :-) Jul 14 18:53:45 Lo-lan-do: Maybe I'm crazy Jul 14 18:54:15 More usable examples please! :D Jul 14 18:54:36 c=ab.getContact(1) Jul 14 18:54:37 ERROR:dbus.connection:Unable to set arguments (1,) according to signature u's': : Expected a string or unicode object Jul 14 18:55:30 Why must every language make up its own intolerable euphemisms for simple data structures or storage procedures. *uggh* Jul 14 18:55:53 * Dave beats nuclear_eclipse with a shriveled up snake Jul 14 18:56:20 because smalltalk already too all the best ones Jul 14 18:56:22 took Jul 14 18:56:25 Dave: what?! Jul 14 18:57:13 note to self, when bootstrapping debian, delete the package cache *before* copying everything to the neo Jul 14 18:57:41 You're installing Debian on a FR? Jul 14 18:57:46 yes Jul 14 18:57:47 Maybe just the guy who wrote that was a bit to flamboyant. Jul 14 18:57:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Jul 14 18:58:08 * nuclear_eclipse want Debian on FR!! Jul 14 18:58:08 * Dave high-fives ecraven Jul 14 18:58:21 I did it, with the premade archive. can chroot to it, and updated it, but still need to poke uboot to get it to boot properly Jul 14 18:58:52 is anyone using FR as a phone? Jul 14 18:59:04 me Jul 14 18:59:06 I want whatever has phone + sms + gps, be it Debian or OM2007.2 or FSO or whatever :-) Jul 14 18:59:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Jul 14 18:59:26 not as my primary phone, but I've made calls with it, and I carry it with me everywhere now Jul 14 18:59:32 summatusmentis: nope, no one at all Jul 14 18:59:36 Lo-lan-do: crap, I think I was crazy... actually, I think I was remembering a pastebin entry *from you* last night that got copied to me Jul 14 18:59:39 Chocky: the premade archive is bigger than my 512 mb sd card (still have to get a bigger one) Jul 14 18:59:53 of course! Jul 14 18:59:59 Yeah chocky just ditched the deadwood. Jul 14 19:00:04 ecraven: yes, but only just. delete the archive debs, delete docs and man pages Jul 14 19:00:08 wurp2|semi_away: No matter. My hack works, and I'm prepared to turn a blind eye on it. Jul 14 19:00:15 :-) Jul 14 19:00:27 :P Jul 14 19:00:36 (Still ugly if you ask me) Jul 14 19:00:37 I can make dbus calls, no problem... the problem is that I'm not sure what arguments getContacts wants Jul 14 19:00:40 just that you have to upgrade incrementally, since you can't download all the updates at once Jul 14 19:00:49 hmm. strange. two days ago, it worked to just copy the address.db from my laptop to the freerunner, but now it does not find the contacts any more. Jul 14 19:00:49 * Chocky recommends deborphan too Jul 14 19:00:58 Chocky: oh, didn't know that! Jul 14 19:01:01 * Dave recommends a bigger memorycard Jul 14 19:01:21 :P Jul 14 19:01:37 Dave: i don't want to mail-order it, 5 euro + 10 euro for shipment seems ... excessive ;) so i have to wait until i get to a store myself Jul 14 19:01:49 wurp2|semi_away: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Org_gnome_evolution_dataserver_AddressBook._org_gnome_evolution_dataserver_addressbook_file_3a_2f_2f_2f_home_2f_root_2f_2e_evolution_2f_addressbook_2f_local_2f_system says it wants a "query" Jul 14 19:02:32 10E shipping? Jul 14 19:02:35 That's retarded. Jul 14 19:02:39 Lo-lan-do: yeah Jul 14 19:02:47 Lo-lan-do: In fact, now I remember fishing around with that Jul 14 19:03:00 yeah store Jul 14 19:03:03 shop Jul 14 19:03:04 buy Jul 14 19:03:07 Lo-lan-do: The problem is not dbus, the problem is wtf is the query syntax. I suspect it's evolution specific. Jul 14 19:03:16 Indeed. Jul 14 19:03:27 what an obscenely long wiki address :P Jul 14 19:03:34 Lo-lan-do: I tried some google searches, to no avail. Of course, I was just playing, I didn't actually care about solving the problem. Jul 14 19:03:39 Dave: +1 Jul 14 19:03:48 Dave: Hey, that's my fault Jul 14 19:04:05 I wrote a script to walk the dbus & just cut & pasted it to the wiki Jul 14 19:04:06 :D Jul 14 19:04:12 haha, yeesh Jul 14 19:04:18 Dave: Rather, "heh, that's my fault" Jul 14 19:04:18 THANKS FOR THAT, Wurp. Jul 14 19:04:28 :] Jul 14 19:04:40 hmm. opkg update && opkg upgrade gets some new patches from the daily feed, and the version number contian some git information. Is there an easy way to see the changes done to these packages? Jul 14 19:04:45 Don't worry, we're not going to vote you off the island for that ;) Jul 14 19:05:08 Dave: yw Jul 14 19:05:16 if it was Debian, you could look at the /usr/share/doc//changelog :p Jul 14 19:05:26 :P Jul 14 19:05:48 //usr/share/doc/CHOCKY_WUZ_HERE! Jul 14 19:05:49 Chocky: it it was Debian, I had apt-listchanges installed Jul 14 19:05:53 heh Jul 14 19:05:58 pretty much :p Jul 14 19:06:04 Dave: hell yeah! Jul 14 19:06:11 * Lo-lan-do finds /sys/class/leds and starts having fun Jul 14 19:06:17 Yeth... Jul 14 19:06:22 Eeeeeeeeeeexcellllent >:) Jul 14 19:06:32 I made a flashy startup script :p Jul 14 19:06:35 Lo-lan-do: see if you can find the hidden one that makes the logo glow. Jul 14 19:06:41 * nuclear_eclipse wants a silver ring for his FR to look like the 1973 Jul 14 19:06:43 Dave = cartoon quote madman. Jul 14 19:06:48 Speedevil, oh nice! Jul 14 19:06:51 one ring to phone them all Jul 14 19:06:53 Chocky, essentially. Jul 14 19:06:57 * Lo-lan-do nods at nomeata, brother in Debian-bred reflexes :-) Jul 14 19:07:02 bet you're going to CominCon Jul 14 19:07:03 Most seem to find it somewhat entertaining :) Jul 14 19:07:03 Chocky: and in the darkness bind them. Jul 14 19:07:07 er, ComicCon Jul 14 19:07:08 hah Jul 14 19:07:21 which means you'd be near here. scary. Jul 14 19:07:23 Speedevil, the logo glows? Jul 14 19:07:28 Chocky, muwahahaha! Jul 14 19:07:39 Dave: No. Jul 14 19:07:43 next week isn't it? Jul 14 19:07:57 Dave: it projects the openmoko logo onto nearby clouds. Jul 14 19:08:10 SpeedEvil: sweet! Jul 14 19:08:12 Dave: this does drain the battery though. Jul 14 19:08:17 holy Neo, Batman! Jul 14 19:09:01 Like the batsignal!? Jul 14 19:09:23 Dave: But cooler. Jul 14 19:09:25 holy booting openmokos, batman! Jul 14 19:09:26 yes Dave, that was the joke... Jul 14 19:09:34 Speedevil, we'd need your car battery for that :) Jul 14 19:09:41 nuclear_eclipse, who's joking now! Jul 14 19:09:41 Batman + Robin = gay Jul 14 19:09:43 >:) Jul 14 19:09:45 Dave: before it flickers out and dies with a kernel panic Jul 14 19:09:47 :P Jul 14 19:10:02 Openmoko + Speedevil + Sinister Lair Jul 14 19:10:07 hah Jul 14 19:10:10 fso? Jul 14 19:10:15 ~fso Jul 14 19:10:16 extra, extra, read all about it, fso is the freesmartphone.org software release. It includes the backbone software for the phone hardware (and some other things) and a working dialer, and not much else. Jul 14 19:10:20 bbq? Jul 14 19:10:20 :P Jul 14 19:10:22 bah *= fso Jul 14 19:10:25 ~bbq Jul 14 19:10:26 wtf Jul 14 19:10:30 apt bbqb? Jul 14 19:10:34 aww :p Jul 14 19:10:36 hah! Jul 14 19:10:37 ~lol Jul 14 19:10:37 lol is, like, stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead. Jul 14 19:10:44 ~lawl Jul 14 19:10:44 rumour has it, lawl is the sound of someone who has been on IRC too much. see also: roffle. Jul 14 19:10:56 ok, enough bot abuse :) Jul 14 19:11:00 BQS! BQS! Jul 14 19:11:04 ~dance my pretties! Jul 14 19:11:04 * nuclear_eclipse abuses apt Jul 14 19:11:04 :P Jul 14 19:11:05 my pretties!, dance with me! Ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' Elive, stayin' Elive Jul 14 19:11:10 blah Jul 14 19:11:12 heh, guessed that one Jul 14 19:11:58 ~ftw Jul 14 19:11:58 rumour has it, ftw is wtf backwards, or for the win, or for the win Jul 14 19:12:28 someone's doing the repeater? Jul 14 19:12:39 shows how much I know. I though it was "free the world". i.e, OSS Jul 14 19:12:52 * Chocky read too much slashdot Jul 14 19:12:54 yes, it does Jul 14 19:13:04 ~bofh Jul 14 19:13:05 well, bofh is Bastard Operator From Hell - see http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/ Jul 14 19:13:11 ok, enough :) Jul 14 19:13:20 ah, bofh. year above me at University. Jul 14 19:13:26 well, guy who wrote it. Jul 14 19:13:29 ~scratchmonkey Jul 14 19:14:40 ~bnfh Jul 14 19:14:50 shush Jul 14 19:15:46 I find it ironic that 'apt' is in #openmoko, but not #debian... :P Jul 14 19:15:56 I find it apt Jul 14 19:16:02 buh-zing! Jul 14 19:17:25 can anyone tell me about the GPS on Openmoko? Jul 14 19:17:47 newb: Doesn't work apart from some lucky guys. Jul 14 19:17:49 wiki can Jul 14 19:18:09 sorry on the Neo Freerunner Jul 14 19:18:21 I am not clear if it's a GPS receiver Jul 14 19:18:42 Lo-lan-do: i didn't understand Jul 14 19:18:47 DAMNIT. This AM the UPS shipping on my FR was showing tomorrow... but they decided to try delivering it today. First time UPS has done that to me. Jul 14 19:20:20 newb: There is a GPS receiver, however it seems that it's non-functional in a non-negligible fraction of the phones. Jul 14 19:20:54 mm.. so is there a chance we'll have to send them back to get it fixed? Jul 14 19:21:00 Lo-lan-do: oh..... ok that way. and what happens if i receive such a phone? even i'm waiting for UPS to ship mine to me :( Jul 14 19:21:10 I still haven't gotten my shipping notification :/ Jul 14 19:21:14 Lo-lan-do: it's stuck at customs Jul 14 19:21:19 I think we're all still waiting for an authoritative statement on that. Jul 14 19:21:25 Lo-lan-do: i don't think it's non-functional, but rather just doesn't get a fix in an acceptable time Jul 14 19:21:39 newb: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP Jul 14 19:21:47 It's non-functional Jul 14 19:22:04 ecraven: Ainulindale let his try to get a fix for 8 hours, no go Jul 14 19:22:05 in a nearly-negligible number of phones. Jul 14 19:22:09 The GPS is broken in a bunch of the freerunners?? x.x Jul 14 19:22:30 GoldenHawk: Not many, it seems, but yes. Jul 14 19:22:36 Yuck. Jul 14 19:22:42 wurp2|semi_away: hm.. not good, i tried for 30 minutes or so, no luck Jul 14 19:22:51 maybe it works under debian ;) Jul 14 19:22:56 heh Jul 14 19:23:03 How do you determine if you have a phone with a faulty GPS? It just doesn't work at all? Jul 14 19:23:08 He actually got data out of his, which apparently he never had before, today Jul 14 19:23:34 If debian comes with a "Solder pin" package and a "smash connector with tweezers" update. Jul 14 19:23:38 Lo-lan-do: thx for the tipp with http://www.smurfy.de/files/neo/manage-contacts, works great here Jul 14 19:24:21 i get data out of mine, just no fix Jul 14 19:24:46 GoldenHawk: It never gets a fix - the intermittent antenna connection doesn't allow it to get a good fix. Jul 14 19:25:27 right, off to bank to deposit $1600 in $20 notes :o Jul 14 19:25:31 Thanks, rivalarrival. I'll check for it once I get my shipment from Koolu. Jul 14 19:25:36 strange, for my sent SMS, messages2 gives my home zone number as the sender, instead of displaying the receiver. and for some, it shows them as received. I wonder where it gets the idea of “my number” from. Jul 14 19:26:30 GoldenHawk: Yeah, me too... My shipment is en route from Sunnyvale CA. Jul 14 19:26:41 rivalarrival: is that fixable by soldering? Jul 14 19:26:41 heh Jul 14 19:26:55 ecraven: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP Jul 14 19:27:33 I've heard mostly good reports about the fix, but at least one person has said it didn't work. Jul 14 19:27:38 rivalarrival: That page could be expanded. I'm not sure I understand what it says. Jul 14 19:27:53 I didn't write it, I'm just repeating it. Jul 14 19:28:11 I didn't say you did, but since you seem to understand it... Jul 14 19:28:40 Lo-lan-do: The top pictures are the antenna connection on the circuit board. Jul 14 19:29:03 There appear to be three solder pads - two for the ground pad, and one for the pin. Jul 14 19:29:25 resoldering the pin connection to the board is the first part of the fix. Jul 14 19:30:15 the second part is just reshaping the antenna's connector so it fits tightly on the connection on the board. Jul 14 19:30:18 rivalarrival: thanks for the link! Jul 14 19:30:28 I do what i can. :-) Jul 14 19:41:28 do i understand correctly that the gps antenna is not soldered onto the board, but only "stuck" onto the connector? Jul 14 19:44:19 ecraven, I believe it was poorly soldered, that is my understanding. Jul 14 19:44:29 * Dave shrugs Jul 14 19:44:45 Anyhoo, this python immersion is @_@ Jul 14 19:45:13 Dave: be sure to get plenty of fluids until you are done having your mind blown by the awesomeness of Python :P Jul 14 19:45:42 <|Marco|> how can i make neod release event2/3 so I can poll data from them ? Jul 14 19:46:48 Just in case I make up my mind and decide to do the hardware fix: what's the size of the screwdriver I need? Jul 14 19:47:58 is there already an UI for muting the phone? Jul 14 19:48:24 nomeata: not that I have found... Jul 14 19:48:49 nomeata: No need. Leave it alone for five minutes, it'll freeze and won't disturb you. >:-] Jul 14 19:48:59 Lo-lan-do: ;-) Jul 14 19:48:59 which mixer item do i change to make th phone ear speaker louder? Jul 14 19:50:46 Lo-lan-do: I think it's a Torx T6 Jul 14 19:50:54 i hope my freerunner arriving tomorrow is free of gps defects Jul 14 19:51:24 mmontour: Thanks. Jul 14 19:51:28 hey all, cant get wireless to work with my Jul 14 19:51:31 FR Jul 14 19:51:58 im tryung to use wpa2 Jul 14 19:52:05 ah Jul 14 19:52:42 oh Jul 14 19:52:47 Hydrant: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan Jul 14 19:52:55 nuclear_eclipse, you wouldn't happen to have a nice small application I could use as a foundation, would you? Say, a small networking app? Jul 14 19:53:04 <|Marco|> trix: if it's gta Bv6 then it's gps-bug-free Jul 14 19:53:08 simple client app, for example :P Jul 14 19:53:13 Lo-lan-do: The screwdriver is a torx head, not sure of the size. Home Depot, Lowes, most hardware stores have them cheapest, electronics stores often carry them as well. Jul 14 19:53:15 <|Marco|> I've got Bv5 and it's got that bugg Jul 14 19:53:17 Hydrant: software for setting up wirelessis not really available yet =\ Jul 14 19:53:24 I've tried that wiki page, something is messed Jul 14 19:53:42 Dave: never done anything over a network yet Jul 14 19:53:44 is there a better distro to through on or no ? Jul 14 19:53:46 Marco is the Bv6 what's been shipping since july 7? Jul 14 19:53:50 nuclear_eclipse =[ Jul 14 19:53:56 bah Jul 14 19:54:01 |Marco|: How does one know? Jul 14 19:54:09 what bug? Jul 14 19:54:14 Dave: all my networking 'experience' has been in Java or PHP =\ Jul 14 19:54:44 Hydrant: I don't think any of the available distros really do very well for wifi yet Jul 14 19:54:58 it's definitely a WIP Jul 14 19:55:17 EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Jul 14 19:55:25 Does Python have pcre support? Jul 14 19:55:43 I really just want to put some sofware on there, maybe a better way? Jul 14 19:55:45 not specifically PCRE, but the 're' module is pretty close Jul 14 19:55:51 :| Jul 14 19:56:06 hrm, alright, I guess I'll take a look later Jul 14 19:56:13 I hope I am not sorrowly disappointed :) Jul 14 19:56:14 Hydrant: you might want to try Qtopia and/ar ASU, but I find the standard OM2007.2 stack the 'best' right now Jul 14 19:56:57 is there a way to download packages for it ? I have USB networking the one way but I don't have iptables on my eee pc Jul 14 19:57:16 Dave: regex isn't as natural in Python as it is in Perl, but once you get the hang of it, it's as good if not better than most languages (besides Perl of course) Jul 14 19:57:57 What is the <> operator in py? Jul 14 19:58:00 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner tells you how to flash the Neo from your linux PC Jul 14 19:58:10 Dave: read a line i think Jul 14 19:58:19 when used in a conditional? Jul 14 19:58:23 Dave: sys.stdin.readline() Jul 14 19:58:32 oh, alright Jul 14 19:58:38 that flashes it but I want to install say the GPS and such, don Jul 14 19:58:44 Dave: and goes in $_ Jul 14 19:58:47 I guess syntactically it operates as a lho stor Jul 14 19:58:48 don't I have to do that from opkg Jul 14 19:58:48 i think ... Jul 14 19:58:51 ahaha Jul 14 19:58:53 okay :P Jul 14 19:58:57 sounds familiar ;) Jul 14 19:59:18 Hydrant: if you haven't yet flashed your Neo, grab the latest om2007.2 image from the site and flash that, it's much better Jul 14 19:59:24 it just compacts it acting as = and == in conditional form I guess Jul 14 20:00:01 k Jul 14 20:00:09 nuclear_eclipse: which one? 2008-04-21? Jul 14 20:00:11 Hydrant: and then from there, if you ssh into your Neo, you can use opkg to update/upgrade and install new packages Jul 14 20:00:31 apr 2008? Jul 14 20:00:39 get a newer one Jul 14 20:00:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images Jul 14 20:01:09 nuclear_eclipse: Don't you get to the same point when just upgrading from what was initially flashed? Jul 14 20:01:13 Are there any decent abstractions for socket operations? :P Jul 14 20:01:22 nuclear_eclipse: so the factory image is ASU, right? Jul 14 20:01:28 Lo-lan-do: except without flashing, you miss out on the kernel updates Jul 14 20:01:32 Stroller: no Jul 14 20:01:39 It's an april version of the GTK image. Jul 14 20:01:46 nuclear_eclipse: Er, I got a kernel update just today with an opkg upgrade Jul 14 20:01:59 Dave: what? the factory image? Jul 14 20:02:00 i thought fr was going qtopia Jul 14 20:02:09 Yes. Jul 14 20:02:15 Lo-lan-do: that doesn't updtae the kernel in the Flash ROM though, unless I'm wrong Jul 14 20:02:19 ~ASU Jul 14 20:02:20 [asu] the April Software Update, an release name for a OpenMoko distribution. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Feature_Plan. Jul 14 20:02:21 what's the best latest image? Jul 14 20:02:23 Dave: TY Jul 14 20:02:31 :) Jul 14 20:02:45 nuclear_eclipse: I think it does. At least, there was one step conspicuously marked as "DON'T INTERRUPT" Jul 14 20:02:49 wurp, are you a python whore? :) Jul 14 20:02:53 Lo-lan-do: ah, ok Jul 14 20:03:14 wurp2|semi_away: don't do that! I know what ASU stands for. And I understand why there are so many. But the multitude is very confusing. Jul 14 20:03:34 Stroller: I thought I was doing it for Hydrant Jul 14 20:03:47 To point out that ASU uses Qtopia for phone functionality Jul 14 20:03:53 wurp2|semi_away: Ah! OK, sorry Jul 14 20:03:56 And uname -a says the kernel has been built on Jul 14, 2008, so I'm inclined to believe it's been upgraded. Jul 14 20:03:59 But it didn't work. NP :-) Jul 14 20:04:03 rivalarrival: The reason for the GPS being so unstable on my FR is because of bad connection, or so it seems? Both my freerunners are having issues getting gps sync. Jul 14 20:04:04 Lo-lan-do: good deal Jul 14 20:04:31 Dave: I am a Java whore. Jul 14 20:04:33 I kind of assumed it wouldn't flash a kernel in-place that was already running.... Jul 14 20:04:35 Dave: I am a Python slut. Jul 14 20:04:41 hah! Jul 14 20:04:45 I see... Jul 14 20:04:48 there is a difference! Jul 14 20:05:18 Ko_deZ: That's the theory... check the topic for the link Jul 14 20:05:33 Then you wouldn't happen to know of a good python module for object [de]serialization over simple socket operations? Jul 14 20:05:37 nuclear_eclipse: I am a Java contractor. Jul 14 20:05:44 But I do python for free :-) Jul 14 20:05:49 i guess i'll try qtopia Jul 14 20:05:50 figured :P Jul 14 20:05:51 rivalarrival: Sometimes they get sync right away, and sometimes not. Mostly, I have gotten sync after touching or moving the device. I guess that is an indication to point in the direction of less than ideal contact. Jul 14 20:05:57 Hmm. How do I switch the tap "keyboard" back to normal? Jul 14 20:05:58 Dave: pickle? Jul 14 20:06:02 nuclear_eclipse: you mean without a reboot? Jul 14 20:06:09 rivalarrival: I got the link from looking at the history here =) Jul 14 20:06:14 yes Jul 14 20:06:22 nuclear_eclipse: something must be wrong then :p Jul 14 20:06:24 I somehow locked it so the key 0 now displays }, and 789 give {[] Jul 14 20:06:48 nuclear_eclipse: your assumption was right, it can't upgrade a running kernel Jul 14 20:06:49 (Got to that state by keeping the 0 clicked for a second or so) Jul 14 20:07:13 haha cpickle over network? :P Jul 14 20:07:20 |Marco|: where did you get the information about the GPS bug being related to the v5 or v6 revisions? Jul 14 20:13:58 <|Marco|> mmontour: a friend that told me Jul 14 20:14:15 <|Marco|> the person that had arranged the batch order I got mine from Jul 14 20:14:26 And how does one know whether ont has a v5 or v6? Jul 14 20:14:40 <|Marco|> hum.. Jul 14 20:14:48 Lo-lan-do: you have a v5 :P Jul 14 20:14:53 (Apart from "GPS seems broken") Jul 14 20:14:53 Lo-lan-do: You should find it by cat /proc/cpuinfo Jul 14 20:15:02 Revision : 0350 Jul 14 20:15:11 Lo-lan-do: then it is a v5 Jul 14 20:15:16 pretty much, everybody but factory testers got v5 Jul 14 20:15:32 Interesting. I didn't see any GPS-related changes on the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware page Jul 14 20:15:34 And the one on a hill under an apple tree, apparently. Jul 14 20:15:43 Lo-lan-do: v6 has revision 360 i believe. Jul 14 20:15:48 the UPS man just delivered my freerunner. Jul 14 20:15:57 party! Jul 14 20:16:08 hrr :) Jul 14 20:16:11 <|Marco|> Ko_deZ: yeah, I guess that's right since mine is 0350 Jul 14 20:16:58 Blargh Jul 14 20:17:02 donomo: still waiting on my ups man to deliver my freruner Jul 14 20:17:16 |Marco|: I got it from the wiki hardware page that mmontour linked to =) Jul 14 20:17:32 im sooo excited. Jul 14 20:17:58 excited to know whether or not it'll even turn on and then whether or not it will make/take calls. Jul 14 20:18:12 donomo: wether or not the GPS works... Jul 14 20:19:02 <|Marco|> Ko_deZ: ah, okidoki :) Jul 14 20:21:21 Erm, so the v5 has only one accelerometer too? Jul 14 20:21:41 Or do I misinterpret that page? Jul 14 20:21:44 no, one at the top, one at the bottom Jul 14 20:22:12 Hmm... python-netclient? o.O Jul 14 20:22:33 The "GTA02 A5 to A6 changes" section mentions that they are both connected to the same line, which more or less turns them both into just one, right? Jul 14 20:22:58 Lo-lan-do: it's still two, but with a total of six separate axes Jul 14 20:23:21 and because they are off-angle to each other, they can share a bus, etc Jul 14 20:23:40 Ah. Good, I guess. Jul 14 20:23:43 I'm sure there's a more 'technical' explanation, but I'm not a systems engineer :P Jul 14 20:24:21 they actually show up as two separate 'events' though Jul 14 20:24:32 /dev/event2 and /dev/event3, iirc Jul 14 20:24:57 suprizing lack of directions. Jul 14 20:25:05 the battery is seperate and no notes on how to open the case Jul 14 20:25:36 donomo: see the Getting Started page on the wiki Jul 14 20:25:42 do they come with the minisd cards? Jul 14 20:25:44 the link is on the green piece of paper ;) Jul 14 20:25:54 fuzzyt: yes, and it's WicroSD Jul 14 20:26:02 s/WicroSD/MicroSD/ Jul 14 20:26:02 nuclear_eclipse meant: fuzzyt: yes, and it's MicroSD Jul 14 20:26:06 <|Marco|> nuclear_eclipse: the problem with them is that they alternate between data coming event2 and 3 Jul 14 20:26:09 nuclear_eclipse: haha. i didnt read the whole piece of paper Jul 14 20:26:53 the pen/stylus has a laser pointer. lols Jul 14 20:26:53 <|Marco|> and right now, neod is using both for somthing and I can't figure out where to poll data for my test app Jul 14 20:27:36 |Marco|: I think just about everyone here has a violent disregard for neod.... :P Jul 14 20:28:22 <|Marco|> nuclear_eclipse: well, I'd like to know what it specifically does before I kill it Jul 14 20:28:48 |Marco|: I think it does just about "everything" to control your Neo's hardware :P Jul 14 20:29:01 <|Marco|> argh11 Jul 14 20:29:07 but I'm not sure, so please take that with a shaker of salt Jul 14 20:29:13 <|Marco|> nah :D Jul 14 20:29:37 I was suprised one day to find neod in the matchbox tasklist :P Jul 14 20:29:54 it's a virus Jul 14 20:30:10 and I thought Linux was immune! aaaggghhhH!!!! Jul 14 20:30:21 ./lawlhax.bin Jul 14 20:30:25 * nuclear_eclipse panics Jul 14 20:30:35 fuzzyt: http://flickr.com/photos/donpdonp/2669086548/ Jul 14 20:30:41 Makes you think when you download bin files from nvidia from drivers :X Jul 14 20:30:42 So is there any app that can display the accelerometers data? Jul 14 20:30:43 * Chocky watches your backtrace scroll by Jul 14 20:31:02 Thanks! Jul 14 20:31:04 (Even a text-mode app would be fine, I just want the numbers to move when I shake the FR) Jul 14 20:31:16 Lo-lan-do: agreed Jul 14 20:31:54 there is one in the works in the google summer thing afaik Jul 14 20:32:33 can't you just cat the /dev/input/event* nodes? Jul 14 20:32:37 http://www.borza.ro/index.php/category/accelerometer-based-gestures/ Jul 14 20:32:43 Lo-lan-do: ^ Jul 14 20:33:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code#Accelerometer-based_Gestures Jul 14 20:33:07 ehm, 'while read /dev/g-megter do; clear; echo $@; done ?????????? Jul 14 20:33:30 Lo-lan-do: try http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/openmoko/gta02.py Jul 14 20:33:45 Lo-lan-do: Is even GUI based and let's you test the LEDs as well :) Jul 14 20:34:04 cat /dev/event5 | od? Jul 14 20:34:21 jOERG_rw: your ? key is stuck Jul 14 20:34:23 <|Marco|> DocCod: that's the one I'm mod'ing Jul 14 20:34:42 To do what? Jul 14 20:34:55 ??? Jul 14 20:34:58 profit! Jul 14 20:35:09 touche Jul 14 20:35:44 yay, my debian fr works so far Jul 14 20:35:48 Gah, freeze Jul 14 20:36:10 ecraven: what were the runes for uboot? Jul 14 20:36:15 ecraven: how well does it perform? and is there a GSM app that you use, or is it just now a PDA basically? Jul 14 20:36:27 Twisted, eh? Jul 14 20:36:33 sister Jul 14 20:36:43 We're not gonna take it! Jul 14 20:36:56 * Chocky takes it Jul 14 20:36:59 Chocky: how did you notice??????????? ;-) Jul 14 20:37:02 :( Jul 14 20:37:09 this is cool that everyone has the FR now and people are deving with all their strength ;0 Jul 14 20:37:35 deving? more like pissing about ;-) at least for me. Jul 14 20:38:00 heh.. this reminds me of when kde 4.0 came out Jul 14 20:38:18 JOERG. Jul 14 20:38:29 no, KDE is not useful. this is. Jul 14 20:38:31 Dave: nice to see ya :-) Jul 14 20:38:32 KDE 4. Jul 14 20:38:34 :) Jul 14 20:38:36 I have it on my laptop Jul 14 20:38:39 it's grim. Jul 14 20:38:45 nothing works properly Jul 14 20:38:49 I use it right now.. at work Jul 14 20:38:51 the people fiddling with Debian on their FR might find titchy interesting (http://wiki.neilandtheresa.co.uk/Titchy_Linux) Jul 14 20:38:55 or rather.. I use one of the recent 4.1 betas Jul 14 20:38:58 * nuclear_eclipse hears good things about KDE 4.1 Jul 14 20:38:59 using KDE 3.x here Jul 14 20:39:10 I run the latest svn at home though Jul 14 20:39:16 I ran it quite happily on my universal for a while and it does phone based stuff fairly nicely Jul 14 20:39:17 nuclear_eclipse: at the moment it's a brick :) i can ssh into it, but it doesn't even have X yet Jul 14 20:39:27 lol, nice Jul 14 20:39:51 but you're booting it from SD, right? Jul 14 20:39:52 * Chocky was almost going to get an HTC universal since FR was going to take so long. Jul 14 20:39:59 Chocky: setenv menu_2 Boot from microSD (FAT+ext3): setenv bootargs \${bootargs_base} rootfstype=ext3 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 init=/sbin/init.sysvinit rootdelay=5 \${mtdparts} ro\; mmcinit\; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 \${sd_image_name}\; bootm 0x32000000 Jul 14 20:40:06 since it has full linux and keyboard Jul 14 20:40:09 Chocky: create a fat and an ext3 partition on the sd card Jul 14 20:40:14 bit big for a fone tho Jul 14 20:40:14 Chocky: the universal is a very nice phone, but a bit delicate unfortunately Jul 14 20:40:23 ah rite, boot from FAT. Jul 14 20:40:27 * Chocky should have partitioned like that Jul 14 20:40:31 unfortunately, yes Jul 14 20:40:37 I can fix that at home. Jul 14 20:40:39 it seems uboot can't read the kernel from ext2/ext3 Jul 14 20:40:47 copy it all off, cfdisk, copy back on Jul 14 20:41:06 or just use (g)parted Jul 14 20:41:10 the alternative is to have uboot use kernel in flash. that'll work ok. but I dunno how to change that Jul 14 20:41:15 its okay to turn on the freerunner right away once its connected to the power outlet, right? Jul 14 20:41:17 the command line that is, not the kernel in flash Jul 14 20:41:26 |Marco|: Yay, nice script :-) Jul 14 20:41:37 donomo: yes, just leave for full charge first time Jul 14 20:41:42 is it possible to use bitbake with the Toolchain? (as in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain) Jul 14 20:41:45 So what exactly is python-netclient? Jul 14 20:42:05 ecraven: see http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/799 (the uboot ext2/ext3 bug) Jul 14 20:42:26 mmontour, oh, that one :( Jul 14 20:42:32 yeah, stinky Jul 14 20:42:37 Bah, frozen again. Jul 14 20:43:53 san pablo free my device Jul 14 20:44:10 haha, likewise Jul 14 20:44:15 mine says expected delivery tomorrow Jul 14 20:44:19 but it's in san pablo Jul 14 20:44:21 and I'm in Boston Jul 14 20:44:26 it not gonna make Jul 14 20:44:28 it Jul 14 20:44:33 so I think maybe it's not actually in san pablo Jul 14 20:44:33 it's not gonna take it Jul 14 20:44:40 prolly Jul 14 20:44:45 Dave: there's a workaround for bug 799 in the OE tree, but it seems that it didn't make it into Openmoko's u-boot git tree Jul 14 20:45:26 mmontour: someone told me it's been fixed several times, but has regressed, unfortunately Jul 14 20:46:35 http://git.openmoko.org/?p=openmoko.git;a=blob;f=packages/u-boot/files/fix-data-abort-from-sd-ombug799.patch;h=98b84430addde31a95bb6729de96a5231d9d2502;hb=org.openmoko.dev Jul 14 20:47:50 ecraven: that's terrible! Jul 14 20:47:54 grr Jul 14 20:48:39 ecraven: It was probably me that said that. When I have time I'll re-submit that patch to the openmoko-kernel list. Jul 14 20:49:13 ~OE Jul 14 20:49:14 [oe] OpenEmbedded (see http://www.openembedded.org ), or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see http://www.wavesec.org ), or an email client which is not to be spoken of. Jul 14 20:49:18 nobody packaged up minimo yet? Jul 14 20:49:23 ah, if only the internet connection were better here ;( 1h to download xorg Jul 14 20:49:38 someone did last week. see the list Jul 14 20:49:40 * Lo-lan-do → sleep Jul 14 20:49:51 hmmm. mailinglists :\ Jul 14 20:49:59 but thanks for the hint Jul 14 20:50:00 * Chocky knows :| Jul 14 20:50:05 At one point it seemed like u-boot was a dead-end and would be replaced by a minimal routine that would bootstrap a Linux kernel, but I haven't seen much progress on that lately Jul 14 20:50:16 u-boot is too useful Jul 14 20:50:29 and isn't a pig like grub Jul 14 20:50:37 or, shock, lilo ;-) Jul 14 20:50:44 Chocky: which of the 10? Jul 14 20:50:48 * nuclear_eclipse recoils in horror Jul 14 20:50:50 The kernel (kboot or something) would be able to do everything that u-boot currently does plus a bunch of other stuff, in theory. Jul 14 20:50:59 10 what? versions of u-boot Jul 14 20:51:06 Chocky: mailinglists Jul 14 20:51:08 haha Jul 14 20:51:09 mmontour: hum. suppose. Jul 14 20:51:12 community Jul 14 20:51:23 Dave: whatever you're laughing at, I agree Jul 14 20:52:15 u-boot sucks because you have to write a custom driver for everything (e.g. a different one for SD or SDHC cards), whereas with Linux you can use the same driver for your bootloader and for your main kernel Jul 14 20:52:41 troo. Jul 14 20:53:04 However u-boot does have other advantages so I'm not personally conviced that replacing it is the best strategy Jul 14 20:53:28 hm.. my debian does not have /dev/ttySAC1, do i just have to create the device? or should udev do that? Jul 14 20:53:44 Chocky: thanks, found it Jul 14 20:53:54 Linux has a boot loader? Rad. Jul 14 20:54:31 could anyone tell me what major/minor numbers /dev/ttySAC1 has? Jul 14 20:55:23 mknod ttySAC1 c 204 65 works Jul 14 20:57:03 Lo-lan-do: frozen due to suspend, or otherwise? Jul 14 20:57:15 * nomeata ’s freerunner has been pretty stable lately Jul 14 20:57:16 Nope, just frozen. Jul 14 20:57:33 Lo-lan-do: can you ssh in? Jul 14 20:57:54 if you can, kill and restart X11 Jul 14 20:58:06 I rebooted it already. Jul 14 20:58:10 ah Jul 14 20:58:18 well, for the next time then :P Jul 14 20:58:23 Sure. Jul 14 20:58:41 here's to hoping there *isn't* a next time ;) Jul 14 20:59:20 Yeah, right. Jul 14 20:59:26 I'm not holding my breath :-) Jul 14 20:59:39 * Lo-lan-do → sleep, really Jul 14 21:00:12 * nomeata hopes he’ll wake up again Jul 14 21:01:20 Inside the iphone. Jul 14 21:01:22 http://www.techonline.com/product/underthehood/209000013;jsessionid=UQG1MGKBTTSWGQSNDLPSKHSCJUNN2JVN Jul 14 21:01:58 SpeedEvil: someone broke it and posted pics? Jul 14 21:02:11 what is /dev/ttySAC2 ?? Jul 14 21:02:11 No, this is a professional teardown. Jul 14 21:02:15 :( Jul 14 21:02:25 ecraven: the third serial device. Jul 14 21:02:31 I wanted to see pics of broken iphones... Jul 14 21:02:35 ecraven: I don't think it's actually used Jul 14 21:02:50 nuclear_eclipse: I've seen a video of a blended one. Jul 14 21:02:55 echarp: it's the flow-control on the GPS Jul 14 21:02:56 nice :) Jul 14 21:03:06 SpeedEvil: 0 is gsm, 1 is gps, right? Jul 14 21:03:42 yes Jul 14 21:04:42 how can i manually use the phone? ATDT34325? and set the correct values for the mixer? Jul 14 21:05:56 alsamixer Jul 14 21:06:52 but that should be all? so i could "easily" implement my own dialler? Jul 14 21:08:31 :o Jul 14 21:08:33 Yes Jul 14 21:08:40 cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 Jul 14 21:08:46 then atd... Jul 14 21:08:47 will work Jul 14 21:08:51 Dave: PC locked up :-/ Jul 14 21:08:58 (but CU is not on modern images) Jul 14 21:08:59 very cool ;) Jul 14 21:09:04 sorry if I missed anything Jul 14 21:09:28 uh oh Jul 14 21:09:35 Yeah, nothing important :] Jul 14 21:09:40 Just more openmoko woes. Jul 14 21:09:52 np: Enya - Openmoko Woes. Jul 14 21:10:02 o_O Jul 14 21:11:55 supposedly my voice is very low on the other side Jul 14 21:12:12 can I turn that up somehow? Jul 14 21:13:00 nomeata: Yes, but that may make other audio problems worse. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality Jul 14 21:13:20 In the mixer, 'Mic2' is one of the controls that you can turn up Jul 14 21:15:27 hm.. why do i get cu: /dev/ttySAC0: Line in use? i've run "dmesg -n1", and /dev/ttySAC0 isn't mentioned in /etc/inittab Jul 14 21:17:03 lsof Jul 14 21:17:28 mmontour: I can select Mic Sidetone Mux [Mic 2] with alsamixer, but where can I actually raise the volume? Jul 14 21:19:03 ecraven: you might want to checkout the fso implementation. There you just need to use some dbus messages to make and recieve calls for example Jul 14 21:19:41 ecraven: and it is exactly one of the scenarios the fso api implementation is made for. Jul 14 21:19:48 jakob__: i know, but i like debian a lot, and it offers some programs i don't have on angstrom Jul 14 21:20:12 ecraven: permissions Jul 14 21:20:19 perhaps Jul 14 21:20:22 ecraven: yeah but you could just run the python deamons from the fso on your debian :) Jul 14 21:20:26 nomeata: make sure you run "alsamixer -V all" - there should be a Mic2 control Jul 14 21:20:48 ecraven: It may need some little changes but it is definitly the way to go :) Jul 14 21:21:38 The full name is probably "Mic2 Capture Volume" or similar, but alsamixer strips off the suffix when it displays it Jul 14 21:21:51 mmontour: thx, -V all helped. Jul 14 21:22:41 jakob__: that's what i'm aiming for ;) Jul 14 21:22:51 hm.. will the gsm modem do *anything* if i don't have a sim card inserted? Jul 14 21:23:15 ecraven: I think you can call 911 with it, but I am not 100% sure Jul 14 21:23:31 i mean, will it answer any AT commands? Jul 14 21:24:11 jakob__: not in the UK. Jul 14 21:24:15 * SpeedEvil stabs OFCOM. Jul 14 21:24:15 * SpeedEvil stabs OFCOM. Jul 14 21:24:20 ecraven: oh thats something I am not sure about :) Jul 14 21:24:22 ecraven: yes, it will respond to commands. There are flow-control issues when accessing it directly - see "Manually Using GSM" on the wiki Jul 14 21:24:52 mmontour: i read that page, i was just wondering whether the fault is the missing sim card Jul 14 21:24:53 SpeedEvil: than it is area dependent :) Jul 14 21:25:18 SpeedEvil: or at least the emergency number changes from country to country :) Jul 14 21:25:56 jakob__: nope Jul 14 21:26:14 SpeedEvil: it does not work at all in the UK? Jul 14 21:26:24 jakob__: OFCOM did not require networks to allow GSM mobiles to be able to make emergency calls without an active SIM. Jul 14 21:26:28 <`pwgen`> ps ax Jul 14 21:26:38 that's pretty stupid... Jul 14 21:26:59 then again, you have 24/7 camera monitoring, so you're save anyway ;D Jul 14 21:27:03 <`pwgen`> grmfl Jul 14 21:27:05 hm.. socat doesn't do what i want ;( Jul 14 21:27:26 hmm thats quite careless I would say Jul 14 21:28:37 Awesome! I got GPRS working thanks to the wiki! Jul 14 21:30:24 sitwon: :) Jul 14 21:33:28 what do most people use for a keyboard? Jul 14 21:33:44 ssh Jul 14 21:33:45 ssh from a desktop/laptop? or is there a bluetooth keyboard that works? Jul 14 21:33:46 A black piece of plastic ? Jul 14 21:33:54 Ainulindale: lolz Jul 14 21:33:55 :P Jul 14 21:34:01 wow, scheme48 works on the neo?? Jul 14 21:34:05 man, we're a channel full of helpful people Jul 14 21:34:15 (and as everyone said, ssh) Jul 14 21:34:19 donomo: I installed the matchbox keboard, the multitap was too slow and limited (no way to use vi) Jul 14 21:34:19 :D Jul 14 21:34:26 using the keypad with letters is a pita Jul 14 21:34:32 sitwon: k. i'll look into that. thx Jul 14 21:34:33 Agreed. Jul 14 21:34:40 It also fucks up the input method via X:ssh Jul 14 21:34:44 :D Jul 14 21:34:45 Qtopia's Predictive input. :D Jul 14 21:34:50 pfft Jul 14 21:34:53 If you like it, sure. Jul 14 21:35:05 Though in my opinion it's pointless when you have a REAL keyboard. Jul 14 21:35:12 is the shipped software an openmoko release with QT bits, or is it a qtopia release? Jul 14 21:35:18 leinir! Jul 14 21:35:20 no Jul 14 21:35:21 donomo: I think all bluetooth keyboards should work (assuming they conform to the HID spec), though you'll need to do some manual configuration Jul 14 21:35:23 donomo: no Jul 14 21:35:29 Neither Jul 14 21:36:01 sigh. ok. there is no wifi support via the GUI is there? Jul 14 21:36:05 and no browser. Jul 14 21:36:13 donomo: There's a browser Jul 14 21:36:17 heh Jul 14 21:36:20 * Dave coughs Jul 14 21:36:25 * Chocky coffs. Jul 14 21:36:33 wurp2|semi_away: you mean lynx? Jul 14 21:36:36 donomo: Not sure about wifi support... I don't have an FR Jul 14 21:36:40 lynx sucks, use links Jul 14 21:36:43 donomo: Nah, the OM browser Jul 14 21:36:43 man, I wish it had lynx! Jul 14 21:36:53 links pwns you Jul 14 21:36:53 Chocky: telnet Jul 14 21:36:57 fnar. Jul 14 21:36:57 donomo: It's not great, but not terrible - graphical browser Jul 14 21:36:58 om2 is somewhat functional, and very limited. Jul 14 21:37:04 Chocky: i actually use links but i thought that name would be too ambigious to use :) Jul 14 21:37:11 w3m :p Jul 14 21:37:16 bbq Jul 14 21:37:17 wurp2|semi_away: its not on the list of apps Jul 14 21:37:27 donomo: Then the list is wrong :-) Jul 14 21:37:36 openmoko-browser2 Jul 14 21:37:39 donomo: Or someone removed the browser... Dave should know if it's there Jul 14 21:37:44 And if the wifi gui is there Jul 14 21:37:51 But he's too busy being snarky Jul 14 21:37:51 Agreed :] Jul 14 21:37:55 heehee Jul 14 21:37:58 Indeed! Jul 14 21:37:59 * Chocky agrees also Jul 14 21:38:03 ;-) Jul 14 21:38:04 * Dave concurs with himself. Jul 14 21:38:05 * Chocky h5s Dave Jul 14 21:38:05 k. well at least with all these actual hardware owners, that should add life to the software project Jul 14 21:38:17 Definitely! Jul 14 21:38:22 yay Jul 14 21:38:24 More slavedriving please! Jul 14 21:38:32 snap[ Jul 14 21:38:36 *Crack* Jul 14 21:38:40 im going to use this phone as my everyday phone until it becomes unbearable Jul 14 21:38:44 pow# Jul 14 21:38:46 hm, opkg update goodness Jul 14 21:38:49 hahah Jul 14 21:38:52 I like your style! Jul 14 21:38:54 * donomo hands dave a rootbeer Jul 14 21:38:58 then u gonna hack it Jul 14 21:39:00 o/ Jul 14 21:39:03 * Chocky hands Dave a real beer Jul 14 21:39:03 Thanks :D Jul 14 21:39:17 will the battery last a day? Jul 14 21:39:23 get 3 Jul 14 21:39:29 hm, whole mess of a crazy modules being pulled Jul 14 21:39:34 1 have 4 Jul 14 21:39:44 linuxxr: you have 4 batteries? Jul 14 21:39:55 y spares pack Jul 14 21:39:58 mickeyl: Where the hell are you if you just had lunch? Jul 14 21:40:08 haha Jul 14 21:40:10 plus 1 i took from a nokia Jul 14 21:40:11 :D Jul 14 21:40:16 I just at lunch of taffy. Jul 14 21:40:23 i decided to take the rest of the day off after lunch :) Jul 14 21:40:26 English please. Jul 14 21:40:27 heh Jul 14 21:40:28 * mickeyl working too hard Jul 14 21:40:43 well i'll take a measurement on battery life and report back. Jul 14 21:40:47 at drinking beer Jul 14 21:40:48 Oh, so you pulled one of those "eight hour lunches," eh Mickeyl? Jul 14 21:40:54 Dave: righto Jul 14 21:40:57 :) Jul 14 21:41:05 Like, I went for lunch and didn't come back... Jul 14 21:41:06 i love being freelancer ;) Jul 14 21:41:10 hah! Jul 14 21:41:15 donomo: regarding battery life: Jul 14 21:41:17 donomo: the wiki reports around 12h, with possibly 21h with very low usage Jul 14 21:41:18 ~FAQ Jul 14 21:41:18 if only you could be a freerunner! Jul 14 21:41:20 well, faq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_(GTA02)_FAQ Jul 14 21:41:21 ;D Jul 14 21:41:26 heheh Jul 14 21:41:32 dou. i got FAQ-p0wned. Jul 14 21:41:37 :D Jul 14 21:41:41 Elleo: thx Jul 14 21:41:43 rtfm, essentially. Jul 14 21:41:46 :) Jul 14 21:41:47 which gophone has athe same battery? Jul 14 21:42:37 portland oregon peeps can see the phone tonight. http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/732230 Jul 14 21:42:39 Hmm, I think it's time to blow this popsicle stand! Jul 14 21:43:09 be good if i could find a 15 dollar gophone that had the same sim and battery Jul 14 21:43:22 That's not the best comparison :) Jul 14 21:43:23 linuxxr: for realz. Jul 14 21:43:40 * cjb has a 10 dolla gophone, will test battery when FR comes (maybe tomorrow). Jul 14 21:44:03 5 dollah, love you long time Jul 14 21:44:20 * Dave rolls his eyes Jul 14 21:44:29 there's always one Jul 14 21:44:38 Dave is an expert at 5 dollah love. Jul 14 21:44:59 Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. Jul 14 21:45:15 SpeedEvil: that's pretty nice, TBH Jul 14 21:45:24 Hmm, SpeedBot seems to be a bit lagged today :D Jul 14 21:45:46 Chocky: that's based on likely extrapolations. Jul 14 21:46:07 SpeedEvil: so leaving apps "open" sucks a little more juice? Jul 14 21:46:08 You might want to put that little disclaimer in there ;) Jul 14 21:46:11 SpeedEvil: hmmm, kinda reads like 1 week standby including 20 hours mp3 and 5hrs talk time Jul 14 21:46:24 donomo: it's there, the word 'about' Jul 14 21:46:28 :) Jul 14 21:46:28 doc|home: it's the way all phone companies quote life. Jul 14 21:46:31 aboot? Jul 14 21:46:51 donomo: That's assuming that powersaving works, and it saves to RAM properly. Jul 14 21:47:08 Speaking of which, we need more! Jul 14 21:47:08 SpeedEvil: sure, but all phone companies are different to OM :) It's just the phrasing :) Jul 14 21:47:15 im not expecting a week, i just hope it gets through the day. Jul 14 21:47:28 SpeedEvil: please turn off your bold coloring. Jul 14 21:47:36 Better yet, hope YOU get through the day, with it! :P Jul 14 21:47:40 cjb: I haven't worked out how to. Jul 14 21:47:41 * Dave cackles maniacally Jul 14 21:47:55 christ on a bike. this guy is so disorganised. he's email me about 10 times asking where it is, if I ordered debug boards, how to pay, etc, etc. In fact, he's _so_ keen and disorganised, he's the very last to pick up his from the 10 pack. Jul 14 21:48:03 SpeedEvil: that is annoying. should I work it out for you? what IRC client are you using? Jul 14 21:48:10 worst yet, he's 5 mins walk away. Jul 14 21:48:16 heh Jul 14 21:48:25 pidgeon courier? :D Jul 14 21:48:28 cjb: bitchx Jul 14 21:48:34 once i saw that screen and linux booting, i knew i had found my phone. :) Jul 14 21:48:34 throw it over Jul 14 21:48:49 I cycled _right_ past it at lunch time to go to the bank. of course I didn't have his phone - it's at home, cos he wasn't organized last night Jul 14 21:49:31 lpotter: thanx for the new images Jul 14 21:50:01 cjb: does that do it? Jul 14 21:50:07 lpotter: did you made a xpkg "feed"? Jul 14 21:50:09 SpeedEvil, people still use bitchx? :P Jul 14 21:50:10 SpeedEvil: nope Jul 14 21:50:33 Another guy was supposed to turn up at 6.30pm last night. Was 8.20 - he was "stuck in traffic" - on a Sunday evening? fnar. Jul 14 21:50:34 spydon: /fset format_nick_comp $0:$1- Jul 14 21:50:53 * Chocky sucker for punishment Jul 14 21:51:18 and another asked if he could email me for help with his device. I carefully didn't agree. Jul 14 21:51:43 cjb hehe Jul 14 21:52:21 SpeedEvil: bwuh? :) Jul 14 21:52:42 Oops. Mismatched < Jul 14 21:52:46 Ok, fixed. Jul 14 21:52:56 one more try? :) Jul 14 21:53:02 cjb: that? Jul 14 21:53:17 hurrah! Jul 14 21:53:24 now I think you /save or something to make it permanent Jul 14 21:53:25 thanks. Jul 14 21:53:30 I have Jul 14 21:53:31 Yay! Jul 14 21:54:03 TabCompletion: do you feel complete? Jul 14 21:54:10 just use rcirc :) Jul 14 21:54:17 I feel special Jul 14 21:55:00 Ok, enough of that... Jul 14 21:55:27 What's the current gripefest, or are you gonna make me look through the history? Jul 14 21:55:32 does the neo need special graphics drivers for x11? Jul 14 21:55:37 Yes. Jul 14 21:55:39 rivalarrival: yes Jul 14 21:55:41 Err - no Jul 14 21:55:44 and where do i get them for other distributions (debian especially) Jul 14 21:55:49 The neo has just a dumb framebuffer. Jul 14 21:55:55 is there a opkg feed for packages like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner? Jul 14 21:56:00 use fbdev for Debian Jul 14 21:56:07 The FR has a wierd horrible graphics chip. Jul 14 21:56:11 ecraven: do you mean the Neo or the FreeRunner? Jul 14 21:56:15 Chocky: isn't fbdev rather slow? Jul 14 21:56:16 freerunner Jul 14 21:56:19 the FR uses xorg-video-glamo. Jul 14 21:56:24 which is in svn.openmoko.org Jul 14 21:56:28 echarp: the graphics bus is fundamentally slow Jul 14 21:56:41 ecraven: think a 16 bit ISA card. Jul 14 21:56:53 mmm... 16 bit ISA card... Jul 14 21:56:53 cjb: so i should be able to build and package it for debian? Jul 14 21:56:57 aye Jul 14 21:57:10 ecraven: yes. Jul 14 21:57:27 at worst, through it at alien Jul 14 21:58:34 can i browse the opkg repositories? Jul 14 21:58:45 yes, they're just http dirs Jul 14 22:00:49 * nomeata just thought that his Freerunner lost time time. But it really was 00:00. Jul 14 22:01:10 * Chocky laffs Jul 14 22:01:41 i had the exactly same thought with my desk-phone ;-) Jul 14 22:03:04 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/07/14/build-your-own-bluetooth-handgun-handset-or-dont/ <- hmm, next model freerunner? Jul 14 22:04:22 Chocky: Now you know how it feels to be a distributor of phones. Jul 14 22:04:45 troo. Jul 14 22:05:18 only thing is, I don't make any profit. Jul 14 22:05:23 Chocky: Multiply that by 30, and you know what the various distributors have to deal with. Jul 14 22:05:36 Chocky: Granted that's the case, but margins are slim on h/w. Jul 14 22:05:39 unless you count the $3.30 change people don't want Jul 14 22:07:02 FWIW, I have sold hardware in the past, and the stuff we build and sell here I do some customer support for Jul 14 22:07:13 but I get paid for that :p Jul 14 22:07:28 Chocky: You're certainly more informed than most then :) Jul 14 22:07:46 sometimes being the expert isn't all it's cracked up to be Jul 14 22:08:06 I am "hardware lead". I'm really a software engineer. Jul 14 22:08:23 Chocky: I hear that. Jul 14 22:08:49 anyway, at least Staples delivered my coffee Jul 14 22:10:27 Coffee ? what kind ? :-) Jul 14 22:10:56 "bay traders" Jul 14 22:11:10 Staples order needed to be some amount for free shipping, so threw it in Jul 14 22:11:20 Roasted or green ? Jul 14 22:11:50 really - who orders green coffee except fanatics? Jul 14 22:12:00 it's ground already. and I hope it's roasted Jul 14 22:12:21 Really, who throws a shoe? Jul 14 22:12:38 my other foot Jul 14 22:20:35 it would appear bluetooth support for alsa is missing in 2007.2 Jul 14 22:24:48 http://youtube.com/watch?v=N5KzL8VLm_k Jul 14 22:25:07 oops - mischan. Jul 14 22:25:10 Though worksafe. Jul 14 22:25:24 RS232C interface lead album. Jul 14 22:25:54 * Chocky laffs Jul 14 22:26:01 very English Jul 14 22:27:38 hey ! Jul 14 22:27:49 I just received my FR \o/ Jul 14 22:27:56 |o/ Jul 14 22:27:58 \o| Jul 14 22:28:56 AciD: Congrats! Jul 14 22:29:29 now I need to figure out how to start it :) Jul 14 22:29:39 welcome to the confusion/insanity! Jul 14 22:30:11 step one. chew lint. Jul 14 22:30:17 wow, someone who knows truly isn't spelt "truely" on irc? Jul 14 22:30:21 step two. press and hold power button. Jul 14 22:30:28 step three ???? Jul 14 22:30:37 step four, truely profit! Jul 14 22:31:00 hehe Jul 14 22:31:02 OpenMoko's profit you mean ? :-) Jul 14 22:31:20 my prophet Jul 14 22:32:02 dselect on FR - so wrong! Jul 14 22:32:11 where do you have to put pressure on to open it ? (to put the battery and gsm card in) Jul 14 22:32:36 AciD: hook your fingers like you were searching for the Jul 14 22:32:42 fingernail at the end in the groove. read the guide Jul 14 22:32:42 got my freerunner! Jul 14 22:32:44 AciD: hook your fingers rigidly. Jul 14 22:32:53 it shows you where Jul 14 22:32:59 there is a guide ? Jul 14 22:33:02 AciD: now put your fingernail into the slot on the top of the phone Jul 14 22:33:12 yes Jul 14 22:33:16 AciD: and bend your wrist while holding the hand rigid. Jul 14 22:33:25 mentioned on the wiki, and mentioned on the green bit of papaer with your FR Jul 14 22:33:30 AciD: this pops the back of the case off easily. Jul 14 22:33:36 ah yes Jul 14 22:34:01 I'll have to reboot then, I updated my kernel on x server so no apps are launching Jul 14 22:34:03 brb Jul 14 22:34:19 that sentence made no sense Jul 14 22:34:31 oh well Jul 14 22:34:31 did he mean he updated his x server? Jul 14 22:34:38 it make sense to him, don't stress it. Jul 14 22:34:45 :P Jul 14 22:34:49 another case of someone rushing. Jul 14 22:39:18 re Jul 14 22:40:54 w000000000000000t Jul 14 22:40:55 my freerunner has arrived Jul 14 22:41:03 :) Jul 14 22:41:14 nullpuppy: test your GPS Jul 14 22:41:28 Ainulindale: yup, will Jul 14 22:41:29 do Jul 14 22:41:31 it's like ups decided to coordinate everyone's delivery Jul 14 22:41:31 * kelvie_work still doesn't have a shipment notification :( Jul 14 22:41:33 have to get it out of the box first ;) Jul 14 22:42:10 nullpuppy: you must use a chainsaw, or you void the warranty. Jul 14 22:42:13 i love geeks... they get a new toy they've been drooling over, and before opening it, they go on irc to tell others Jul 14 22:42:19 SpeedEvil: lol Jul 14 22:42:27 ieatlint: hehe ;) Jul 14 22:42:33 I closed the pin window before being able to enter it. how can I get it back ? (without rebooting) Jul 14 22:42:51 linty: you forgot the bit about purchasing the extras first. Jul 14 22:45:20 i think i read that being a bug... that you can't get it back Jul 14 22:45:24 AciD: ssh to it, kill phone-kit and relaunch it, or power the gsm down and up again (not sure if it'll work) Jul 14 22:45:37 (and by that I mean the antenna) Jul 14 22:48:20 "maximum number of PIN attempts reached." Jul 14 22:48:25 :'( Jul 14 22:49:53 nullpuppy, you must make a video to put on youtube when you unpack it ;) Jul 14 22:50:53 anyway Jul 14 22:50:55 gn Jul 14 22:51:03 spydon: haha, no camera :( Jul 14 22:51:07 that would be awesome though Jul 14 22:51:09 ok, in about an hour i'm going to go down to the beach here with my FR and two other gps devices and time how long for each to get a lock Jul 14 22:51:36 allowing for each of the to fill with sand Jul 14 22:51:37 nullpuppy, too bad :P Jul 14 22:51:40 them Jul 14 22:52:07 i seem to recall reading that electronics actually operate better with sand Jul 14 22:52:21 Tehy are afterall made of sand. Jul 14 22:52:22 ieatlint: Electronics *are* sand. Jul 14 22:52:25 pfft Jul 14 22:52:37 only partly sand. Jul 14 22:52:40 heh, maybe yours are Jul 14 22:52:47 reset is lead, mecury, iron, other fun metals Jul 14 22:52:48 sand and magic smoke Jul 14 22:52:49 vacuum tubes forever! Jul 14 22:52:50 ceramic Jul 14 22:52:58 plastic :p Jul 14 22:53:02 And tiny little elves Jul 14 22:53:11 yes, don't forget the elves Jul 14 22:53:21 How are you gentlemen? and Chocky. Jul 14 22:53:24 or like in the Flintstones where there's s bird in the TV or something Jul 14 22:53:33 Elleo: that's with a valid composite input signal? Jul 14 22:53:33 it doesn't sound as cool to say "i spent $400 on a phone made of sand" Jul 14 22:53:34 oops Jul 14 22:54:21 * mwester fits SpeedEvil's computer with a mischan filter Jul 14 22:54:23 ieatlint: common response: "You bought an ipod?" Jul 14 22:54:42 nope... i don't own a single apple product Jul 14 22:54:44 Hmm, I may require assistance with this python app tonight :) Jul 14 22:54:48 ieatlint: hehe Jul 14 22:55:02 hm, does anyone have thoughts on a bicycle holder for the moko? Jul 14 22:55:16 (I want to mount it around where my front light is, as a GPS dash) Jul 14 22:55:20 booting ;) Jul 14 22:55:23 cjb: the phone's a bit small to hold bicycles, don't you think? Jul 14 22:55:29 doc|work: :) Jul 14 22:55:31 cjb yes Jul 14 22:55:43 it'd get full of bugs instead of sand Jul 14 22:55:50 I already came up with a few mockups; if you're interested I'll show them to you later :) Jul 14 22:55:59 it's already full of bugs Jul 14 22:56:04 oh yeah. sorry Jul 14 22:56:12 Dave: neat. do you have a method of manufacturing in mind? Jul 14 22:56:29 glue and ice lolly sticks Jul 14 22:56:41 wonder if OM will later sell caseless, and perhaps screenless boards Jul 14 22:57:00 I know there are plenty of other embedded boards that fit the bill, but still Jul 14 22:57:07 few with gsm Jul 14 22:57:23 (and open) Jul 14 22:57:39 GSM can be found to attach. but plenty of very open boards. Jul 14 22:57:42 cjb: I've just ordered a cheap general purpose one (http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/14252.htm), will let you know how I get on with it if you like Jul 14 22:58:16 cool idea Jul 14 22:59:09 did anyone have a hard time installing the microsd?, it doesn't seem to want to clamp down on mine.. Jul 14 22:59:16 aye Jul 14 22:59:28 it's not obvious that it fits _inside_ the tabs Jul 14 22:59:29 Arg0naut: the socket is _horrible_ Jul 14 22:59:31 not just rest on top Jul 14 22:59:51 you might have to bend the tabs out again Jul 14 23:00:04 I think the picture on the wiki has been improved so it's more obvious Jul 14 23:00:43 Elleo: thanks! maybe my local bike store has one, then.. Jul 14 23:01:22 no problem Jul 14 23:03:34 hi. can someone with python on the freerunner try this script and see if it does output your real own number: Jul 14 23:03:37 http://paste.frubar.net/8614 Jul 14 23:03:48 Especially users with more than one number... Jul 14 23:04:27 ty for the help Jul 14 23:04:32 nomeata: you could use dbus-send, for people who don't have python Jul 14 23:04:33 so can you install ruby on 2007.2? Jul 14 23:04:44 cjb: I couldn’t figure out how. Jul 14 23:05:00 cjb: but then, it probably was a wrong object path, that I figured out when trying the python way Jul 14 23:06:06 dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.GLib.UnmappedError.PhoneKitNetwork.Code5: Unable to retrieve subscriber number Jul 14 23:09:45 Hmmm I have a mismatch tag in the Network interface xml apparently Jul 14 23:09:57 +ed Jul 14 23:10:03 opkg update tells me Signature check failed. http://pastie.org/233380 Jul 14 23:10:38 donomo: yes, it always does. the server hasn't got proper signatures (yet) Jul 14 23:11:00 aevin: does that mean the package list was updated anyways? Jul 14 23:11:21 i think so. Jul 14 23:11:34 ok, this is a bit fucked, package shipping via UPS from California to Vancouver, they have it marked as currently in Philadepphia?! Jul 14 23:11:35 i gotta say, seeing the phone in person, it sure is damn sexy Jul 14 23:13:45 doc|work: It's all about the hubs for UPS. Jul 14 23:13:47 aw, my delivery got put back to the 17th. Jul 14 23:14:16 bricode: sure, but that's still way off where it should be if it's to get to me tomorrow :/ Jul 14 23:14:27 unless they fly this evening Jul 14 23:14:54 Ainulindale: I have that as well, but I get a number Jul 14 23:14:59 Ainulindale: have you used SMS already? Jul 14 23:15:09 yep, it works fine Jul 14 23:15:20 doc|work: They always fly at night. Jul 14 23:15:28 I hope so :) Jul 14 23:15:34 must ring them this evening Jul 14 23:15:40 doc|work: Your in Van then? Jul 14 23:15:42 sort out gst :( Jul 14 23:15:45 bricode: yep Jul 14 23:15:47 you? Jul 14 23:15:59 Ainulindale: can you check .evolution/memos/local/system/journal.ics and see what the Freerunner puts there as the sender (SUMMARY) oder recipient (LOCATION) for your messages? Jul 14 23:16:00 doc|work: Vancouver Island at the moment. Jul 14 23:16:04 ah, cool Jul 14 23:16:05 O Jul 14 23:16:07 whoops Jul 14 23:16:15 I've got 3 phones from my group going there Jul 14 23:16:49 nomeata: "oder" ? Jul 14 23:17:22 nomeata: I have the sender as the summary, and one time as the location Jul 14 23:18:10 Ainulindale: and you only have one of these per message? Jul 14 23:18:20 Looks like it. Jul 14 23:18:25 Ainulindale: because here, the Freerunner puts his "own number" in the field Jul 14 23:18:46 Weird Jul 14 23:18:59 Ainulindale: so what does messages put above the mails you send. Nothing, or the other persons number? Jul 14 23:19:11 The name of the contact Jul 14 23:19:33 oh, ok. doesn’t do that here :-) Jul 14 23:21:42 whats the opkg name of the PDF viewer? Jul 14 23:27:03 that xkcd in the topic is sooo true. i must have checked ups 30 times today Jul 14 23:27:28 hehe Jul 14 23:31:52 is the day that they'll get more 850s still the 25th? Any earlier will be inconvenient for me. Jul 14 23:36:06 arse Jul 14 23:36:16 macdonalder: turns out you have to pay gst AND pst Jul 14 23:37:37 * Chocky notes that the PNY "break to open" tamper proof devices on their CF card packaging can be opened without breaking. Jul 14 23:37:42 what a waste of plastic Jul 14 23:42:46 heh Jul 14 23:46:06 doc|work: From ordering from California? Jul 14 23:46:26 gst? pst? Jul 14 23:46:35 Is there a way to disable reading the contacts on the SIM? Jul 14 23:46:47 erase the contacts on the sim? Jul 14 23:47:40 rivalarrival: well, I still want to use them in my other, reliable, phone :-) Jul 14 23:47:59 bricode: from orders from Canada Jul 14 23:48:10 er, from California to Canada Jul 14 23:48:19 bricode: no idea why, that's just what UPS told me :( Jul 14 23:48:41 400 dollars in taxes, for absolutely nothing. I feel dirty Jul 14 23:48:43 nomeata: Copy them to the reliable phone, erase them from the sim card? :-) Jul 14 23:48:47 doc|work: That's whacky. I would have thought just GST and perhaps some more duty on the way in. Jul 14 23:48:49 470 in fact Jul 14 23:49:03 bricode: that's government canada for you Jul 14 23:49:06 470 in TAXES? Is that on a 10-pack? Jul 14 23:49:12 rivalarrival: yeah Jul 14 23:49:13 doc|work: Yucky. Jul 14 23:49:23 Ouch. That sucks. Jul 14 23:49:26 rivalarrival: the reliabe phone is a very old phone, not sure it has a contact store of it’s own Jul 14 23:49:29 they charged PST as well?! Jul 14 23:49:30 sneak them over the border Jul 14 23:49:33 kelvie_work: yep Jul 14 23:49:38 lame Jul 14 23:49:46 Chocky: I don't cross that border under any circumstances Jul 14 23:49:46 I don't think I get charged PST ordering stuff from Ontario Jul 14 23:49:51 * doc|work values his anal virginity Jul 14 23:49:51 nomeata: Sounds like I should refer you to tier-2. :-) Jul 14 23:49:59 pay someone $400 to do it Jul 14 23:50:06 kelvie_work: well no, that's inside canada Jul 14 23:50:08 doc|work: VALUED - past tense... Jul 14 23:50:12 * mwester watches the conversation and wonders if there's a reward for smugglers Jul 14 23:50:22 rivalarrival: pffft, haven't crossed it yet Jul 14 23:50:32 mwester: there's definitely a market :) Jul 14 23:51:13 tunnel under the border for free phones. Jul 14 23:51:21 rivalarrival: I’m just wondering what component reads it - eds, contacts, something else? Jul 14 23:51:27 Chocky: I'd love to do that :) Jul 14 23:51:40 not worth it for 10 phones though :) Jul 14 23:51:49 20? ;-) Jul 14 23:51:57 heh Jul 14 23:51:59 yes! Jul 14 23:52:16 If you get them shipped to me, I'll use my patented Border Mortar to launch them over the fence. Jul 14 23:52:50 rivalarrival: just plug them into a USB helicopter, and have the GPS guide it. Jul 14 23:52:57 nomeata: Couldn't tell you, sorry. Jul 14 23:53:04 SpeedEvil: I like the way you think... Jul 14 23:53:15 SpeedEvil: will be shot down by DHS using 1 million dollar missiles Jul 14 23:53:30 can't have those 470 dollars in taxes go amiss now, can we? Jul 14 23:53:48 Eh, DHS couldn't find their ass with both hands behind their back. Jul 14 23:53:57 bwahaha Jul 14 23:54:04 * doc|work waves to the NSA Jul 14 23:54:20 They're too busy confiscating everyone's Dasani to do any real work. Jul 14 23:54:27 o.O Jul 14 23:54:29 really? Jul 14 23:54:31 * rivalarrival used to work for NSA. Jul 14 23:54:41 rivalarrival: are you allowed to say that? :) Jul 14 23:54:42 oh, yeah, flights, water etc Jul 14 23:54:58 rivalarrival: now they'll send someone after you. Was that what you wanted?! Jul 14 23:55:23 Eh, if my former co-workers are any indication, I've got nothing to worry about. :-) Jul 14 23:55:27 I do wonder what'll happen when it's realised that you can very easily conceal a >>200ml bottle in your person. Jul 14 23:56:13 SpeedEvil, you and i have very different definitions of "easy" Jul 14 23:56:29 i personally find swallowing a 200ml bottle or shoving it up my ass a challenging affair Jul 14 23:56:39 For sufficiently perverted values of you. Jul 14 23:56:42 pump it into your bladder. Jul 14 23:57:00 how about drain a li-ion battery and fill it... Jul 14 23:57:11 doc|work: I'd recommend the next order should be through Koolu. Only GST to BC. Jul 14 23:57:31 doc|work: It should be noted I work for Koolu. Jul 14 23:57:47 Some guy smuggled a large dildo in his pants as a "medical device" - they demanded to swab the end of it, but that was it. Jul 14 23:58:12 it's not smuggling if they know about it Jul 14 23:58:51 good point - but inside that dildo could be an iPod filled with stolen music! Jul 14 23:59:04 Coming soon to an airport near you! Instant rapid checkin, no searching! NakedAndHandcuffed \ Jul 14 23:59:07 Air Jul 14 23:59:40 Yeah, I won't travel by commercial air anymore. Jul 15 00:00:12 he'll just go stand outside security with a camera to see the hot chicks Jul 15 00:00:31 Not since they shot down my idea for passenger security - If you can get through the metal detector without setting it off, they pull you aside and issue you a handgun. Jul 15 00:01:04 i very rarely set those metal detectors off Jul 15 00:01:10 * SpeedEvil ponders a screaming 5 year old with a M16. Jul 15 00:01:45 they never pull me out for extra security checks either... i guess i don't fit any terrorist profiles, which is funny, since i'm of irish descent Jul 15 00:02:09 Change your name to Abdul McFinnigan. Jul 15 00:02:11 Sorry if this is a very simple question but following the Getting Started instructions on the freerunner it says that when you ssh in over usb just hit enter for password but it says permission denied. Jul 15 00:02:23 lol Jul 15 00:02:35 Centaur5: you're sure you're connected to your FR? Jul 15 00:02:52 Centaur5: are you sure you're ssh-ing to the right address (and as user 'root')? Jul 15 00:03:11 Some people use 192.168.0.200 (host pc) instead of 192.168.0.202 (device) Jul 15 00:03:15 huh, wtf. Jul 15 00:03:18 bricode: hehe, cool, well, only need one order :/ Jul 15 00:03:24 ok, the time is WAY off on this thing. Jul 15 00:03:25 hmm Jul 15 00:03:37 yes, ifconfig on usb0 is 192.168.1.200 Jul 15 00:03:37 doc|work: Tell your friends :) Jul 15 00:03:43 bricode: just a hint btw, looked at koolu, they were more expensive and weren't offering any extra warranty :/ Jul 15 00:03:49 oh crap, out of habit I did 1.200 instead of 0.200 Jul 15 00:03:51 bricode: :) Jul 15 00:04:01 Centaur5 FAIL! :-) Jul 15 00:04:16 bricode: although I think they changed their site since I looked at first Jul 15 00:04:17 * SpeedEvil uses the cheesy #!/bin/ash Jul 15 00:04:17 date `ssh 192.168.0.200 date "+%m%d%H%M%Y.%S"` Jul 15 00:04:29 doc|work: We're at $399. Warranty isn't spelled out as well as it should be, but is 1 yr according to manufacturer. Jul 15 00:04:41 Sorry, that was a stupid error Jul 15 00:04:41 bricode: and for 10pack? Jul 15 00:04:51 $369/phone. Jul 15 00:05:05 doc|work: before taxes+shipping. Jul 15 00:05:07 damn, that's a better deal, shame it wasn't set up earlier :/ Jul 15 00:05:18 bricode: the warranty being the winner there Jul 15 00:06:26 my credit card offers a warranty on anything i buy with it... so that's my failsafe Jul 15 00:06:51 ieatlint: for how long? Jul 15 00:07:05 i think 1 year Jul 15 00:07:22 nice Jul 15 00:07:25 what acrd? Jul 15 00:07:27 *card Jul 15 00:07:38 i have it on a citibank card and an amex Jul 15 00:07:51 ah Jul 15 00:08:06 meh, for how much you pay in fees, we could probably get another 10 pack :) Jul 15 00:08:15 lol Jul 15 00:08:22 nah, there is no annual fee on either Jul 15 00:09:41 oh finally.. a shipping notification Jul 15 00:09:59 yay, congrats Jul 15 00:10:18 hehe Jul 15 00:12:15 doc|work: your gov't probably wants a 10 pack too Jul 15 00:13:39 feitingen: the only this government will get one is when they're 10 years old and I'm shoving them up their... oh look, home time! Jul 15 00:13:45 Alright, I changed the IP address and I'm definitely connecting to the openmoko at 192.168.0.200 but it still says permission denied. Jul 15 00:13:51 bye :) Jul 15 00:14:04 Centaur5, your pc is .200 Jul 15 00:14:07 the openmoko is 202 Jul 15 00:14:12 lol Jul 15 00:14:30 ieatlint: Got it, thanks Jul 15 00:14:51 lol @ doc, that is. Jul 15 00:17:16 ok, i've finally got all my shit together to go down to the beach and try these gps receivers Jul 15 00:17:27 i'll get on irc once i'm there... bb in a few Jul 15 00:17:29 damn, they must be shipping it straight from Sunnyvale to the Cleveland area... It's been on a truck 4 days now. Jul 15 00:18:19 rivalarrival: mines been on a truck 4 days, stopped in illinois now. somehow they're saying itll be in ann arbor by tomorrow... Jul 15 00:19:44 They can get them moved pretty good - their "Sort" is second to none. Jul 15 00:22:08 i cant wait until they invent teleports so i can get my mail instantly Jul 15 00:22:26 bricode: I sent a message to sales@koolu.com today :) Jul 15 00:22:37 the prices on the site seem wrong? Jul 15 00:22:49 webar7: How so? Jul 15 00:23:13 it says: $299* PHONE Jul 15 00:23:13 NEW! 5 PACK AT $384 PER PHONE Jul 15 00:23:13 10 PACK AT $369 PER PHONE Jul 15 00:23:21 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rd9dd480fe8fe 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: Jul 15 00:23:21 freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Configure GPS to output NAV-POSLLH, NAV-POSUTM and NAV-TIMEUTC Jul 15 00:23:21 freesmartphone.org: Changed message identificaion to class-id pairs because the numbers used for IDs are not unique. Jul 15 00:23:21 299? Jul 15 00:23:27 Look at the * Jul 15 00:23:32 oh :) Jul 15 00:23:43 penmoko Freerunner with 25 free Google Apps sign ups or 7 Premier Google Apps sign-ups or combination thereof through the Koolu Referral Program. Register Jul 15 00:24:17 webar7: We're lowering the barrier of entry to those in emerging nations. Jul 15 00:24:30 ! Jul 15 00:24:41 bricode: so the pretty coloured cases are cruel lies at the moment? Jul 15 00:25:01 Not for anyone with a can of Krylon! Jul 15 00:25:26 SpeedEvil: Future examples. You can do anything with volume. If you want to buy a 500 pack, I'll make them whatever colour you want. Jul 15 00:25:42 bricode: in moulded, not painted cases? Jul 15 00:25:42 I like the idea of a protective cover/glove thing for a "touch screen" phone doubling as keyboard Jul 15 00:26:23 SpeedEvil: That would depend on cost and manufacturing processes. Jul 15 00:26:41 bricode: idly wondering. I'd really like spare cases for my Neo. Jul 15 00:26:58 SpeedEvil: Right now we're only sourcing complete units. Jul 15 00:27:03 bricode, what if I drive to your office with the Toronto Asterisk User Group in a rented bus and they all demand: 1) a TAUG meeting on the premises 2) discounts on phones available at the meeting Jul 15 00:27:11 bricode: yeah - assumed so Jul 15 00:27:29 yay! Jul 15 00:27:54 webar7: Can't do discounts. Margins are rough enough as it is. If you want a cheaper phone, sign up for Google Apps through us. Jul 15 00:27:54 bricode, :) Jul 15 00:27:54 webar7: I see no circuit diagram Jul 15 00:27:56 oops Jul 15 00:28:05 previously my streaming app needed to wait for the whole video to be encoded before it could start the streaming Jul 15 00:28:19 bricode, ok no discounts .... Jul 15 00:28:31 as it used http, and http sends content-length headers, so if the file grows, it ignores it Jul 15 00:28:35 bricode: but can they get the phones in person :) Jul 15 00:28:45 cb22: nice. Jul 15 00:28:47 webar7: Or buy a 10-pack. Jul 15 00:28:47 now i had a brainwave, and as a second transport method, i'm using ssh Jul 15 00:28:59 so ssh cat /videofile | mplayer - Jul 15 00:29:12 and videofile can be growing, and it works :) Jul 15 00:29:20 bricode, does the missisauga location have phones :) Jul 15 00:29:25 It sort of works. Jul 15 00:29:33 mplauyer needs to support groiwing files properly. Jul 15 00:29:34 * webar7 imagines a massive line up Jul 15 00:29:35 cb22: clever hack, or you could just run vlc to stream it unicast to your phone Jul 15 00:30:01 kdubois: normally you cant do that over gprs Jul 15 00:30:16 well ,depends on your provider really Jul 15 00:30:24 SpeedEvil: indeed Jul 15 00:30:32 dont even think of seeking Jul 15 00:31:08 webar7: We have stock in Ontario, but do not offer a storefront. Jul 15 00:31:15 cb22: ah, i thought you were on a lan Jul 15 00:31:30 kdubois: a lan? where would the fun be in that :) Jul 15 00:31:36 * webar7 pulls the car off the highway Jul 15 00:31:50 ok ... so much for camping out in front the building Jul 15 00:32:38 webar7: Order a phone and you'll have it by the end of the week if you're in Ontario. Jul 15 00:33:15 bricode: i dunno about that. its taking 12 days to get to michigan... Jul 15 00:33:30 I'm getting a personal one ... my boss wouldn't let us buy any because "they don't have cameras" ... a few years back we couldn't buy nokias because "they have cameras" ... :-P Jul 15 00:33:52 kdubois: From California, or Canada? Jul 15 00:35:01 from california Jul 15 00:35:08 webar7: haha Jul 15 00:35:38 funny how the IT dept. is less and less knowledgeable about technology and more and more knowledgeable about ITIL type rules for "managing change" and corporate regulation/policy about what you aren't allowed to do with it after they've spent the bazillion and 5 year plan to get the stuff Jul 15 00:36:04 ok, i'm standing in the open holding my fr vertically from the bottom Jul 15 00:36:09 webar7: Does this surprise you? Some arbitrary reason to deny you the right to spend funds? Jul 15 00:36:23 nearst object is 100m+ away Jul 15 00:36:31 ~bofh Jul 15 00:36:32 [bofh] Bastard Operator From Hell - see http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/ Jul 15 00:36:39 let's see how long for a lock Jul 15 00:37:05 ieatlint_ Did you bring a tent? Jul 15 00:37:07 rivalarrival, IT - especially big public sector or corporate IT == bofh Jul 15 00:37:14 nope :P Jul 15 00:37:26 ieatlint_: Well, good luck with that. Jul 15 00:37:38 not enough battery power to stay the night :P Jul 15 00:37:45 webar7: Everyone can learn from the BOFH. :-) Jul 15 00:38:22 ieatlint_: are you using it now? (For IRC?) Jul 15 00:39:06 has there been any talk of google gears porting to OM? Jul 15 00:39:15 Yes. Jul 15 00:39:17 You just then. Jul 15 00:39:18 no, i'm tethering to my laptop from another phone... tried for a few minutes to get gprs working on it, but pppd kept giving me errors Jul 15 00:39:30 sweet, my eee has enough power to do the transcoding real time with no problems Jul 15 00:39:34 "Connect script failed" ... nothing more, and i'm using the same connect script right now on my laptop.. Jul 15 00:39:46 Hmmm. Jul 15 00:39:49 Odd. Jul 15 00:40:04 yeah, i think it was an ownership issue with the tty device for the gsm modem Jul 15 00:42:14 Maybe gsmd just has it open Jul 15 00:42:15 kill that Jul 15 00:42:29 does mokomakefile have the new GUI changes? Jul 15 00:44:47 still not seeing even a single sat with the FR Jul 15 00:46:25 ieatlint_: :( Jul 15 00:46:50 trying a cold start with another gps i have Jul 15 00:46:53 Seadog: why'd you want an opamp? Jul 15 00:46:56 oosp Jul 15 00:48:05 i noticed on the daily builds i was playing with in qemu had some games.. what package(s) provide those? Jul 15 00:52:19 it sees a sat Jul 15 00:52:40 nullpuppy: oh-puzzles Jul 15 00:52:58 i had to restart it... 730s in it sees one sat Jul 15 00:53:20 bmk789: "new GUI changes"? Jul 15 00:54:20 e17, qt, and such Jul 15 00:54:35 where is the openmoko "emulator" cd image? Jul 15 00:55:16 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU ?? Jul 15 00:55:31 bmk789: MokoMakefiles calls it the openmoko-qtopia-x11-image (aka ASU) Jul 15 00:56:05 ok, thanks Jul 15 00:58:11 webar7: I don't see mention of a CD image there. If you refer to a VMware image, that got never released for... who knows why. An OM employee in .tw made it, though Jul 15 00:59:08 still sees only 1 sat.. has a 27snr, compared to a 41snr on my other device Jul 15 01:01:29 my other device took 12min from a cold start Jul 15 01:02:07 hrm, no fix w/ gps :/ Jul 15 01:02:15 agps gives me lots of fails Jul 15 01:02:34 abraxa_: oh-puzzle doesn't work ;) Jul 15 01:03:24 hm, i just booted my freerunner, and the boots come up AFTER init. Jul 15 01:06:03 ok, i'm packing up and going home Jul 15 01:06:14 nullpuppy: You forgot the "s" in puzzles ;3 Jul 15 01:07:10 whoops Jul 15 01:07:12 my bad :) Jul 15 01:07:13 thanks Jul 15 01:07:15 fail Jul 15 01:08:37 Who/what are we talking about? Jul 15 01:08:47 oh, the gps being failicious? Jul 15 01:08:54 yup Jul 15 01:08:56 Indeed. Jul 15 01:09:02 Most of the time. Jul 15 01:09:07 using factory shipped fw at the moment Jul 15 01:09:30 how stable do the daily builds tend to be? Jul 15 01:09:38 Not like those homemade freerunners?:P Jul 15 01:09:54 Nully puppy the GTK ones are fine. Jul 15 01:10:03 hehe Jul 15 01:10:05 k Jul 15 01:15:50 ok Jul 15 01:16:09 i'm thoroughly convinced the gps problem is not antenna related -- at least on my phone Jul 15 01:16:32 on the walk back, it peaked its snr to 40 for the one sat it could see... under a large grove of trees, it dropped only to 15 Jul 15 01:16:34 does anyone know roughly when the software will be stable enough to be used day-to-day? I'm considering buying one around november/october time Jul 15 01:16:36 that's decent Jul 15 01:18:25 ieatlint: GPS antenna design perhaps? Jul 15 01:19:09 no, i'm saying it's not the antenna Jul 15 01:19:42 Seadog: i don't think anybody knows Jul 15 01:19:48 it was expected last year Jul 15 01:19:59 as i understand it, the software side can feed the gps soft location data to assist in getting a lock... but in general, the firmware on the gps device will get a lock completely independent of the software side Jul 15 01:20:20 i think it may be an issue with the gps device's firmware, but that is PURE speculation Jul 15 01:20:27 ieatlint: yes Jul 15 01:20:48 balrog-kun: yeah I saw that, oh well I can wait! Jul 15 01:20:50 ieatlint: why not antenna related? Jul 15 01:21:18 SpeedEvil, because when i do see satellites, i get decent signal strength Jul 15 01:21:32 it's just seeing them to begin with that's a problem Jul 15 01:21:37 ieatlint: Tonight I am going to buy a torx 6 and open my phone and inspect the GPS antenna connection. Jul 15 01:22:01 ieatlint: My GPS doesn't work at all. I get NMEA data in the log but I'm not sure that means anything. Jul 15 01:22:11 It never gets a fix or registers any signal strength. Jul 15 01:22:17 well half the gps antenna connector you can see without opening the case (i mean, with a screwdriver, by opening the back cover) Jul 15 01:22:48 it took 730seconds of standing still with my phone held pretty optimally to see one satellite Jul 15 01:22:55 * balrog-kun got a T-6 screwdriver with his neo :) Jul 15 01:22:56 i waited another 15min, and never saw another Jul 15 01:23:24 it could be the gps device's firmware is botching the gps sat data decode Jul 15 01:23:24 unfortunately instead of pouch, stylus and batteries Jul 15 01:23:52 iratsu: if it's barely picking that one up, ... Jul 15 01:23:54 and guitar pick :( Jul 15 01:23:55 iea: Jul 15 01:24:23 mjr is also quite adamant that it is not an antenna issue, and my own experience seems to support his claim Jul 15 01:24:41 (note that it may be a soldering issue on some devices, but not all anyway) Jul 15 01:24:47 That could be really awkward if it's not. Jul 15 01:25:12 tessier: just 'blank' NMEA sentances with no fix? Jul 15 01:25:24 "Before getting a fix, the GPS spits out lots of "$GPTXT,01,01,01,NMEA unknown msg*58", though these stop once a fix is obtained." Jul 15 01:25:52 It seems to be once any signal is gotten, however faint. Jul 15 01:25:58 what /dev spits out the NMEA stuff again? Jul 15 01:26:02 Then it outputs 'normally' Jul 15 01:26:07 nullpuppy: /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 15 01:28:13 SpeedEvil: Well, I don't know anything about NMEA. I don't know what a sentence with a fix looks like. Jul 15 01:28:28 I'll check it out on the /dev/ttySAC1 later and find some examples to show. Jul 15 01:29:21 See the GPS article on the wiki Jul 15 01:29:51 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS Jul 15 01:30:06 A position without a fix looks like: Jul 15 01:30:06 * $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 Jul 15 01:30:06 One with a fix: Jul 15 01:30:06 * $GPGGA,065852.00,5613.022527,N,00306.725890,W,1,05,0.5,158.0,M,0.277000,M,-0.010 Jul 15 01:30:23 (central scotland) Jul 15 01:31:02 hmm, currently getting stuff like $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48 Jul 15 01:31:06 and stuff Jul 15 01:31:09 YHeah Jul 15 01:31:16 0s and 9s means no fix Jul 15 01:31:20 that's saying 'I'm a GPS withoout a fix' Jul 15 01:31:24 * nullpuppy goes outside for a few Jul 15 01:34:53 :) Jul 15 01:37:18 same results :/ Jul 15 01:38:35 woe is us Jul 15 01:38:40 how to set clock? Jul 15 01:39:14 i used rdate Jul 15 01:39:26 requires net access though Jul 15 01:40:01 nullpuppy: I change my time in terminal ,bu my gui home time never change Jul 15 01:40:17 wierd. mine updated Jul 15 01:40:31 nullpuppy: I also can net access Jul 15 01:41:07 ChandleWEi: timezone issues? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Timezone Jul 15 01:41:22 aevin: thx Jul 15 01:45:09 aevin: great , thx again Jul 15 01:45:57 np. someone else wrote it. Jul 15 01:47:30 okay, i managed to do something interesting at least Jul 15 01:48:43 managed to switch it to binary mode or something Jul 15 01:48:54 it's outputing data in binary, hehe Jul 15 01:49:35 how to set install calendar, I opkg list|grep calendar never get anything Jul 15 01:56:10 * benlake got his FreeRunner Jul 15 01:56:22 hail folks Jul 15 01:56:29 :) Jul 15 01:56:45 just the person I wanted to see :P Jul 15 01:56:48 :D Jul 15 01:56:55 or Dave, you are both quite useful Jul 15 01:56:59 even better! Jul 15 01:57:18 hehe Jul 15 01:57:23 What can we do for you, Benlake? :) Jul 15 01:57:48 * benlake wonders why his FR wont power back on Jul 15 01:57:52 :? Jul 15 01:58:03 I am trying to connect to it via serial USB Jul 15 01:58:11 but I have apparently broked it! Jul 15 01:58:28 is it charged? Jul 15 01:58:32 yeppers Jul 15 01:58:42 I see the device Jul 15 01:58:54 OH Jul 15 01:58:57 does it have to be in "Set console to USB" to respond? Jul 15 01:59:15 I've tried minicom and "screen /dev/tty.usbmodem5b141 115200,cs7,-ixon" Jul 15 01:59:19 Have you tried disconnecting it from usb, and letting it sit five or so minutes and then attempting to power it back on as normal? Jul 15 01:59:29 I have not Jul 15 01:59:36 Try that :) Jul 15 01:59:37 shout I shut it down, then disconnect it? Jul 15 01:59:43 eh, it's on now? Jul 15 01:59:46 aye Jul 15 01:59:50 oh, what the Jul 15 01:59:55 I thought you said it wouldn't power on? Jul 15 02:00:18 it was on, then I logged in to IRC and it has dimmed the screen Jul 15 02:00:28 wasn't waking up but I heard clicks in the speaker Jul 15 02:00:35 okay... so what exactly are you saying? :D Jul 15 02:00:40 held aux and power for 5 seconds and got the boot menu Jul 15 02:00:41 I'm not sure I understand the situation. :) Jul 15 02:01:01 hehe, ok well before THAT happened it was on and taking calls and generally being a stunna Jul 15 02:01:23 then I wanted to USB serial that bad boy and get to hax0ring Jul 15 02:01:36 but haven't been able to connect serial wise Jul 15 02:01:39 via USB. Jul 15 02:02:01 ssh? Jul 15 02:02:10 minicom/screen Jul 15 02:02:20 serial device Jul 15 02:03:03 okay Jul 15 02:03:45 I tried putting it in "set console to usb" but right after I hit power, it says "hit aux to return to boot menu" and then goes back to the boot menu Jul 15 02:03:58 oh, ick Jul 15 02:04:20 I'm guessing it should stay there a bit longer Jul 15 02:04:27 should I even bother with that? Jul 15 02:06:23 what about wifi packet ingection? are there any drivers for gta2? Jul 15 02:07:41 No. Jul 15 02:07:45 Not supported. Jul 15 02:09:01 does anyone here have experience with the ublox agps script ? Jul 15 02:11:05 aggtrfrad: use an external USb card Jul 15 02:11:11 hmm, mac turned off USB ports. note to self, don't reboot FR while connected to USB. Jul 15 02:12:18 aggtrfrad, hopefully (but doubtfully) atheros will open up some of the firmware Jul 15 02:13:33 no thoughts Dave? Jul 15 02:13:38 SpeedEvil? Jul 15 02:13:55 oh so thats the problem? atheros did not release firmware for latest cheapsets? ah sucks Jul 15 02:14:05 aggtrfrad: yes Jul 15 02:14:12 aggtrfrad, closed source Jul 15 02:14:18 aggtrfrad: though it isn't a latest chipset AIUI Jul 15 02:14:39 brb Jul 15 02:15:29 aggtrfrad, i've built a kernel to support my alfa awus036b on a debian arm microsd install (w/powered hub)... all i need is my FR now (tomorrow) Jul 15 02:17:13 here is a question... is there truth to this? - when the battery of the FR runs all the way down you have to use another battery to get it to boot again while plugged in(?) Jul 15 02:17:33 then swap the 2nd battery with the dead one* Jul 15 02:17:35 ? Jul 15 02:18:16 yep Jul 15 02:19:32 good to know i suppose Jul 15 02:19:54 Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. Jul 15 02:20:10 It should eventually get better on very low battery too. Jul 15 02:21:56 SpeedEvil, i c... i'd love to find a higher mA battery for it in the interim Jul 15 02:22:23 none of those nokia ones on the wiki are better tho Jul 15 02:24:41 Battery life will improve over time. Jul 15 02:34:48 5+ hours talk time is wonderful, great for being on hold with the service provider to find out about those mystery charges that've appeared on the bill Jul 15 02:41:41 WHICH PROVIDER? Jul 15 02:41:50 Ssorry Jul 15 02:42:24 sprint, though that won't be a problem with gsm Jul 15 02:42:38 i just realised that when i connect to a wireless network, ANYONE on the network can ssh to my phone and login as root Jul 15 02:42:59 killler Jul 15 02:43:00 ... Jul 15 02:43:14 awc666 Jul 15 02:43:15 ieatlint, that better be fixed before i go to defcon o.O Jul 15 02:43:19 swc666 Jul 15 02:44:05 ancient123: or at least pull out your SIM :) Jul 15 02:44:07 yeah, i somehow assumed all along that the sshd on the phone automatically binded to 192.168.0.202 and not a generic * Jul 15 02:44:32 SpeedEvil, not a problem my sim doesn't work right now anyways xD Jul 15 02:44:46 nor does my GPS for that matter.... even with assist Jul 15 02:44:50 Add a /etc/issue, and a user account Jul 15 02:44:59 can you get service activated / set up before having the freerunner in hand? Jul 15 02:46:54 trivex`: phone service? Jul 15 02:46:56 trix: Jul 15 02:46:59 yeah Jul 15 02:47:07 trix: sure - all you need is a SIM Jul 15 02:47:15 trix: in some markets, this is hard to get. Jul 15 02:47:27 i assume i can take the sim from anlg an put it in the freerunner Jul 15 02:47:34 trivex`: for me, I can buy a prepaid SIM for $1, or $0 from some provicders. Jul 15 02:47:44 from a lg Jul 15 02:47:44 linuxxr: anlg? Jul 15 02:47:49 Ah Jul 15 02:47:53 an LG Jul 15 02:48:10 at^t lg phone Jul 15 02:48:13 linuxxr: yes. - if it's the right frequency band - the Freerunner - and there aren't any issues with your SIM Jul 15 02:48:17 speedevil, ah cool. i'm just excited to have it in hand, but since i don't have gsm service right now (though i do have an old at&t sim card) i was curious if i'd be able to get service before having the actual phone Jul 15 02:48:18 am i wrong? Jul 15 02:48:42 it'd be nice to take it out of the box and make a phone call without all that provider noise Jul 15 02:49:09 You can swap it round. Jul 15 02:49:27 between phones without telling the company. Jul 15 02:50:15 swap SIMs. Jul 15 02:50:27 does the freerunner come with a sim card? Jul 15 02:50:28 Does the GSM standard send the IMEI, etc. back to the operator? Jul 15 02:50:33 trix: no Jul 15 02:50:37 rivalarrival: yes Jul 15 02:50:58 rivalarrival: in principle, a provider can whitelist only their phones. Jul 15 02:51:04 rivalarrival: but none seem to. Jul 15 02:51:06 ok..so i might be able to get this old sim card i have here activated w/ service without having the phone with me? Jul 15 02:51:15 trix: you might. Jul 15 02:51:30 thanks for the info speedevil Jul 15 02:51:44 trix: I don't know about your provider, for me it's much easier. Jul 15 02:52:11 it'd be at&t, alltel or tmobile here..whoever i can get the best deal through Jul 15 02:52:20 trying to get wlan going but when trying dhcp i get "run-parts: /etc/udhcpc.d/99avahi-autoipd exited with return code 1" Jul 15 02:53:36 ah Jul 15 02:53:37 I'm fuzzy on what state the phone should be in to connect to it via USB serial Jul 15 02:54:02 benlake: for the GTA01 - you press and hold AUX after power on. Jul 15 02:54:09 benlake: for GTA02 - I'm unsure. Jul 15 02:54:13 oh and has anyone been told their phone hums by a call receiver? Jul 15 02:54:53 SpeedEvil: did the gta01 have a bootloader? Jul 15 02:55:00 benlake: usb-serial is connectable when the boot menu is visible Jul 15 02:55:10 ah ok Jul 15 02:55:13 And the lsusb entry changes then Jul 15 02:55:16 let me try again Jul 15 02:58:21 sweet Jul 15 02:58:52 oh sob, it turned off Jul 15 02:59:00 have many other people in here had problems with the GPS ? Jul 15 02:59:10 ancient123: quite a few unfortunately. Jul 15 02:59:18 >.< Jul 15 02:59:32 and im guessing sim cards has been the other issue? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 15 02:59:56 2008