**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 18 02:59:57 2008
Jul 18 03:00:03 <balrog-k1n> hiya Dave 
Jul 18 03:00:18 <Iinfinyte> Hai Dave oh buddy oh pal.
Jul 18 03:01:01 <adsllc> balrog-k1n:  Oh, is that all - just kill X?  :)  That's fine, at least it's known.
Jul 18 03:01:37 <adsllc> If anybody wants to see how sensitive they are, I'm happy to shoot the .c or binary to ya.
Jul 18 03:01:55 <balrog-k1n> adsllc: i suppose it will be fixed at some point and will work as expected then
Jul 18 03:02:14 <balrog-k1n> you still have a chance to be the person who fixed it :)
Jul 18 03:02:48 <adsllc> True that.  Digging out weird X interactions may be slightly beyond me, but it is a goal.
Jul 18 03:03:20 <SpeedEvil> GPM?
Jul 18 03:03:24 * SpeedEvil wonders.
Jul 18 03:03:37 <SpeedEvil> gpm even - I don't think it's an acronym
Jul 18 03:03:40 <walrustown> gallons per mile?
Jul 18 03:03:54 <SpeedEvil> see man gpm
Jul 18 03:04:21 <SpeedEvil> It's a mouse repeater.
Jul 18 03:04:27 <adsllc> What about gpm?
Jul 18 03:04:29 <walrustown> I'm using DOS, I don't know if DOS has man
Jul 18 03:05:05 <adsllc> Viva DOS 3.3!
Jul 18 03:05:29 <walrustown> The DOS I'm using is a pre-microsoft version
Jul 18 03:05:30 <balrog-k1n> you were using debian a while ago :)
Jul 18 03:05:36 <adsllc> Dr. DOS?
Jul 18 03:05:36 <SpeedEvil>        -R[name]
Jul 18 03:05:36 <walrustown> shhhh balrog!
Jul 18 03:05:59 <SpeedEvil>               Causes  gpm  to act as a repeater: any mouse data received while in graphic mode will be produced on  the  fifo  /dev/gpmdata  in
Jul 18 03:06:00 <Chocky> MajorMajoMokoMakefile make me gta01 images - what gives?
Jul 18 03:06:31 <mmontour> wrong machine setting in build/conf/local.conf (om-gta02 for Freerunner)
Jul 18 03:06:32 <walrustown> so, I'm curious what distro the people who can compile openmoko apps are running on their dev boxes?
Jul 18 03:06:36 <SirBob1701> are there any repositories for the ASU?
Jul 18 03:06:51 <Chocky> ah yes.  wiki page doesn't mention this
Jul 18 03:07:01 <linuxxee> i guess the onlything i didnt get was the lanyard
Jul 18 03:07:52 <macdonalder> doc|home: see email :D
Jul 18 03:08:27 <adsllc> walrustown: I can compile console apps on Fedora 9, haven't poked around with mokoui much.
Jul 18 03:09:38 <Iinfinyte> Erm.. How do you change the time?
Jul 18 03:09:39 <adsllc> Has anyone gotten gcc to make a binary on their moko?
Jul 18 03:09:44 <linuxxee> so thats whats wrong with fedora
Jul 18 03:09:53 <walrustown> adsllc: I want to know that too
Jul 18 03:09:59 <Dave> gpm?
Jul 18 03:10:07 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: yes
Jul 18 03:10:11 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: Excellent question - this was a pain for me too.  Standby.
Jul 18 03:10:26 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: I tried building slackware on it a while back, but lots of packages just wouldn't.
Jul 18 03:10:31 <walrustown> adsllc: I tried the instructions on http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain with Debian Etch to no avail
Jul 18 03:10:44 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: IIRC kernel took a couple of hours to build.
Jul 18 03:10:58 <balrog-k1n> adsllc: i got gcc to make a kernel binary on the moko :p
Jul 18 03:10:58 <walrustown> adsllc: did you use the moko toolchain, or just an arm targeted gcc?
Jul 18 03:10:59 <balrog-k1n> andit booted
Jul 18 03:11:52 <adsllc> balrog-k1n: The moko toolchain.
Jul 18 03:12:34 <peepsalot> ok, i'm full of tacos and margaritas, time to flash my freerunner
Jul 18 03:12:45 <Chocky> spicy
Jul 18 03:12:58 <peepsalot> :-D
Jul 18 03:13:10 <Dave> hot
Jul 18 03:13:17 <Chocky> h0t!
Jul 18 03:13:18 <adsllc> To set the time - 'opkg gpssight' - run it.  There's a "Sync Time" button.  It's hackish and probably not the only way, but it's all I've found.
Jul 18 03:14:03 <Dave> o.O
Jul 18 03:14:05 * Chocky install ntpd, but it doesn't seem to help
Jul 18 03:14:06 <adsllc> That is, assuming you've got the GPS working.
Jul 18 03:14:37 <adsllc> ntpd generally doesn't do large step changes.  It'll adjust your clock 1ms every hour, but not so much drastic changes by design.
Jul 18 03:14:43 <daMaestro> hmmm where did the asu images go?
Jul 18 03:14:45 <Chocky> gah
Jul 18 03:14:49 <Chocky> thought so
Jul 18 03:14:51 <adsllc> The ntpdate program would do it, but I haven't found them availab.e
Jul 18 03:14:51 <peepsalot> so does anyone know what is required to boot from microSD?  i couldn't find an appropriate page on the wiki
Jul 18 03:14:56 <Chocky> openntpd is no better
Jul 18 03:15:03 <Chocky> in fact, it's worse
Jul 18 03:15:07 <cjb> peepsalot: is it a uboot menu option?
Jul 18 03:15:19 <Chocky> you'll need updated uboot if you want to boot from ext2
Jul 18 03:15:33 <Chocky> you need a uImage(.bin?) file on it
Jul 18 03:15:37 <peepsalot> cjb, yes, i see it in uboot, but i'm not sure how i go about configuring the sd card
Jul 18 03:15:43 <adsllc> poopsalot: Have you tried http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card ?
Jul 18 03:15:56 <Chocky> those instructions are overly complex and mostly not needed
Jul 18 03:16:01 <Dave> Damaestro, I stole them!
Jul 18 03:16:05 <Dave> Muwahahahahah
Jul 18 03:16:11 <Chocky> like much of the wiki :-(
Jul 18 03:16:12 <peepsalot> adsllc, no, i hadn't seen that yet, thank you
Jul 18 03:16:22 <peepsalot> oh
Jul 18 03:16:26 <daMaestro> Dave, i'm just impressed i could make a call out of box
Jul 18 03:16:27 <daMaestro> :-D
Jul 18 03:16:30 <adsllc> peepsalot: I haven't done it myself, I just remembered seeing it.  YMMV.
Jul 18 03:17:15 <Dave> damaestro, actually they're in 0715
Jul 18 03:17:21 <daMaestro> like.. holy moly
Jul 18 03:17:36 <daMaestro> i can actually call the device, and it rings! ;-)
Jul 18 03:18:02 <Dave> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/?C=M&O=D
Jul 18 03:18:11 <Dave> Jon, huzzah!
Jul 18 03:18:11 <daMaestro> fullscreen is where it's at
Jul 18 03:18:16 <daMaestro> huzzah!
Jul 18 03:18:20 <Dave> heehee :p
Jul 18 03:18:30 <Dave> Glad to hear of your success so far :]
Jul 18 03:18:36 <Iinfinyte> Does opkg update work?
Jul 18 03:18:40 <Dave> Furthermore, glad to hear you are pleased an no longer lamenting your transaction.
Jul 18 03:18:44 <Dave> Infinite, yes
Jul 18 03:18:50 <Chocky> Iinfinyte: more or less. needs hand holding
Jul 18 03:18:55 <Iinfinyte> It keeps failing on me.
Jul 18 03:19:10 <Dave> Infinite, did you add a valid nameserver?
Jul 18 03:19:16 <Chocky> ah yes, the "doesn't work" bug report.
Jul 18 03:19:17 <Dave> can your shit connect?
Jul 18 03:19:20 <Dave> can it resolv?
Jul 18 03:19:22 <peepsalot> bah, i guess it would help if I had a sd reader for my desktop
Jul 18 03:19:23 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: Do it from the phone, not via SSH.
Jul 18 03:19:35 <Dave> if so, are you sure it's not succeeding but just failing the pkg sigs?
Jul 18 03:19:36 <Iinfinyte> I am using the phone.
Jul 18 03:19:37 <Chocky> random advice!
Jul 18 03:19:44 <Dave> adsllc: shush
Jul 18 03:20:02 <Dave> :]
Jul 18 03:20:05 <Iinfinyte> And uhh, I haven't configured anything, but I THINK I'm connected. Cause the first thing seems to work. How can I test?
Jul 18 03:20:05 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: Oh, well then you're screwed.  :)  How exactly does it fail?
Jul 18 03:20:06 <daMaestro> anyone have a screen cover recommendation?
Jul 18 03:20:18 <Dave> I'm looking for one myself
Jul 18 03:20:21 <Iinfinyte> Wait wait
Jul 18 03:20:22 <Chocky> Daviey: ones on ebay.  
Jul 18 03:20:24 <Chocky> er
Jul 18 03:20:24 <Dave> Barring those stupid ones on ebay
Jul 18 03:20:26 <Dave> :P
Jul 18 03:20:29 <safire> Iinfinyte, can you ping www.yahoo.com?
Jul 18 03:20:30 <Chocky> damaestro
Jul 18 03:20:32 <Iinfinyte> Know what? Nevermind, I think it's just Signature checks
Jul 18 03:20:37 <Chocky> sigh
Jul 18 03:20:58 <daMaestro> Dave, let me know if you find something nice, i'll buy you one too if it's nice enough
Jul 18 03:21:01 <Chocky> Dave: shoot me now and be done with it
Jul 18 03:21:01 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: Yea, the sig checks don't exist - ignore the errors.
Jul 18 03:21:15 <Chocky> opkg update 2>&1 | grep -v sig
Jul 18 03:21:16 <Dave> Oh and to all those fools outthere, if you use ping to test the validity of your phone's internet connection, please try an address which RESPONDS to ICMP_ECHO_REQUEST, kthx :]
Jul 18 03:21:21 <Dave> chocky, huhu
Jul 18 03:21:27 * Chocky laffs
Jul 18 03:21:28 <Dave> haaha I'd hardly call that a solutions
Jul 18 03:21:31 <Chocky> like, not your Vista machine
Jul 18 03:21:35 <Dave> furthermore, I hope they don't implement that as their fix :P
Jul 18 03:21:35 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 03:21:47 <Chocky> Dave: patented hack.
Jul 18 03:21:48 <Dave> roflarium.
Jul 18 03:21:55 <Dave> pfft, needs more awk.
Jul 18 03:22:17 * Dave offers damaestro some pizza
Jul 18 03:22:45 <daMaestro> Dave, just had a sandwich
Jul 18 03:22:53 * Chocky doesn't speak awk
Jul 18 03:22:55 <Dave> hah!
Jul 18 03:22:57 <daMaestro> Dave, i assume we are calling the asu the "qtopia" image now?
Jul 18 03:23:02 <Dave> No
Jul 18 03:23:06 <Dave> It's still the Hybrid image.
Jul 18 03:23:18 <Dave> It's way too nastay to be considered "Qtopia"
Jul 18 03:23:21 <Iinfinyte> How do you log into the Freerunner via SSH? I wanna install them thar Keyboardz. >_>
Jul 18 03:23:21 <Dave> plus it's misleading
Jul 18 03:23:22 <daMaestro> ah, cool
Jul 18 03:23:32 <Dave> I'd hope people either use ASU or Hybrid
Jul 18 03:23:41 <Dave> though asu seems to be the more popular of the two
Jul 18 03:23:47 <Dave> even if blindly referenced :)
Jul 18 03:23:51 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: What OS are you using?
Jul 18 03:23:53 <SirBob1701> the hybrid is out?
Jul 18 03:24:00 <Iinfinyte> Ubuntu
Jul 18 03:24:35 <adsllc> linfinyte:  See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Connect_to_the_Neo_FreeRunner_By_USB_Networking
Jul 18 03:24:47 <kd8ikt> wpa_supplicant.conf fails
Jul 18 03:24:55 <Dave> FAIL!
Jul 18 03:25:02 <safire> "the hybrid is out?" .. sounds like the start of "openmoko murders" a new horror flick
Jul 18 03:25:02 <Dave> SirBob, define "out"
Jul 18 03:25:05 <Dave> :p
Jul 18 03:25:11 <Dave> safire :D
Jul 18 03:25:15 <Dave> might as well be
Jul 18 03:25:16 <adsllc> linfinyte: Specifically, the "Automatic Method"
Jul 18 03:25:26 <Dave> oh man I'm so classic
Jul 18 03:25:43 <adsllc> linfinyte: Then ssh root@192.168.0.202.
Jul 18 03:25:53 <Chocky> hum, usb0 has vanished, to be replaced by ttyUSB0
Jul 18 03:25:55 <Dave> man, misdirecting key device inputs around the OS can be so fun :D
Jul 18 03:26:08 <SirBob1701> so does diversity work in the ASU yet?
Jul 18 03:26:18 <Dave> Not so far as I am aware, no.
Jul 18 03:26:28 <SirBob1701> ok does tango still work?
Jul 18 03:26:33 <Dave> Absolutely.
Jul 18 03:26:44 <Dave> There's some minor issues with it that many are not even aware of.
Jul 18 03:26:46 <Iinfinyte> Ahh.
Jul 18 03:26:48 <SirBob1701> ok do you have to do anthing to get the icon for tango to appear
Jul 18 03:26:49 <Dave> It's nearly all good stuff :)
Jul 18 03:26:58 <Dave> I use it on all my gps units :D
Jul 18 03:26:59 <kd8ikt> ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Operation not supported
Jul 18 03:27:06 <kd8ikt> anyone else get that from ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Operation not supported
Jul 18 03:27:11 <SirBob1701> kd8ikt: i get that too.  seems to still work i think
Jul 18 03:27:12 <Dave> su -
Jul 18 03:27:27 <adsllc> kd8ikt: I get it every time - and I connect just fine every time.  Ignore it.
Jul 18 03:27:41 <safire> kd8: yeah, i got that too and still connected
Jul 18 03:27:45 <kd8ikt> mine isnt connecting though
Jul 18 03:27:49 <Dave> Hey I mean the method was said to be hackish to begin with ;)
Jul 18 03:27:55 <Dave> can't expect it to be flawless ;)
Jul 18 03:27:56 <SirBob1701> is there a way  to do ifup eth0 with out having to actually do it each time?
Jul 18 03:28:04 <Dave> you dirty dirty boys :p
Jul 18 03:28:17 <peepsalot> aha, i'v fashioned a makeshift sd reader from coconut husks and palm fronds, the day is mine!
Jul 18 03:28:18 <Dave> Sirbob, have it done automatically for you?
Jul 18 03:28:24 <SirBob1701> ya
Jul 18 03:28:25 <Dave> Sure.
Jul 18 03:28:31 <adsllc> kd8ikt: What type of connection?  Open?  WEP?  WPA?
Jul 18 03:28:46 <SirBob1701> Dave: also i install tangogps but no icon shows up for it
Jul 18 03:28:48 <kd8ikt> open
Jul 18 03:29:14 * kd8ikt is sad iwconfig eth0 essid any doesnt work
Jul 18 03:29:29 <jve> hello all
Jul 18 03:30:15 <adsllc> kd8ikt: try iwconfig eth0 essid <insert your actual SSID, including capitilaization here>
Jul 18 03:30:33 <Iinfinyte> wget: bad address 'www.ginguppin.de'
Jul 18 03:30:34 <Iinfinyte> Hmm
Jul 18 03:30:42 <kd8ikt> derr
Jul 18 03:30:52 <vjacob> is it safe to assume that distributors do not have any phones in stock, now that openmoko.com does not?
Jul 18 03:31:16 <Stroller> vjacob: what country are you in?
Jul 18 03:31:27 <mmontour> vjacob: koolu.com still claimed to have stock earlier today
Jul 18 03:31:34 <SirBob1701> how do i get 2007.2 applications that i install with opkg to show up in the ASU menu?
Jul 18 03:31:38 <adsllc> kd8ikt: After that, does "iwconfig eth0" list a reasonable MAC for your Access Point:
Jul 18 03:32:14 <adsllc> kd8ikt: If so, try :udhcpc eth0"
Jul 18 03:32:16 <vjacob> Stroller: I'm in Washington DC, going to california and in need of a phone fast (I'm from Denmark)
Jul 18 03:32:33 <adsllc> kd8ikt: Then, go put some decent security on your router!
Jul 18 03:32:34 <daMaestro> Dave, as there is no kernel in that build tree... should i not flash the kernel?
Jul 18 03:32:37 <Stroller> vjacob: I think you're stuffed then, mate
Jul 18 03:32:47 <daMaestro> or just http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ ?
Jul 18 03:33:32 <Stroller> vjacob: there was someone on -community selling an un-opened Freerunner yesterday. I think he's in NY. Ended up with two, one from the store & one from a group purchase.
Jul 18 03:33:40 <kd8ikt> but nah i like it open
Jul 18 03:33:51 <kd8ikt> shareing is caring!
Jul 18 03:33:52 <daMaestro> ah, the 20080718 build has one
Jul 18 03:34:08 <Iinfinyte> Any idea why wget http://www.ginguppin.de/files/keyboard-ipk
Jul 18 03:34:08 <Iinfinyte> .tar.bz2 fails? o_O
Jul 18 03:34:21 <Iinfinyte> Oops, split message.
Jul 18 03:34:45 <vjacob> thanks for the tip stroller, btw interesting meaning of the word 'stuffed' :)
Jul 18 03:34:50 <SirBob1701> great no keyboard shows up in the ASU text message for me..
Jul 18 03:35:01 <vjacob> mmontour: i'm looking at the site now
Jul 18 03:35:14 <Stroller> vjacob: you might also shoot steve@openmoko a quick email. Ask politely if he knows of any spares being or becoming available. He's in Cali, as is the distribution centre. I know at least one plonker has refused his delivery in over-reaction to the GPS problems. 
Jul 18 03:35:40 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: Do it from your desktop and scp/rsync it over.  Not sure why, but I've seen the same thing.
Jul 18 03:36:10 <Iinfinyte> Erm.. Do what it over? >_>;
Jul 18 03:36:24 <peepsalot> it kinda suck that the freerunner battery says "2. Do not disassembly" and "3. Do not short circu" cause that's exactly what I really hoping to short circu the thing shortly after disassemblying it.
Jul 18 03:36:59 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: Download it to /tmp on your desktop.
Jul 18 03:37:48 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: then, from your moko, type scp username@192.168.0.200:/tmp/keyboard* /home/root
Jul 18 03:38:11 <adsllc> Iinfinyte: Then unpack it in /home/root.
Jul 18 03:38:13 <ieatlint> peepsalot, heh, it's an obvious attempt at saying circus... just cut them a break
Jul 18 03:38:22 <SirBob1701> great no keyboard shows up in the ASU text message for me..
Jul 18 03:38:33 <SirBob1701> can someone gimme a hand?
Jul 18 03:38:40 * mmontour claps
Jul 18 03:38:58 <ieatlint> if you buy the domain macand.me, i'll give you something very special
Jul 18 03:39:12 <vjacob> i really appreciate your tips
Jul 18 03:39:25 <Iinfinyte> Hmm..
Jul 18 03:39:29 <peepsalot> ieatlint, ok, I will only long circus the battery from now on. :-P
Jul 18 03:39:50 <vjacob> it's great to see that people are helping out and busy getting mokos working
Jul 18 03:40:04 <adsllc> Nah - we're mostly bickering.
Jul 18 03:40:12 <Chocky> vjacob: nah, just handing out abuse
Jul 18 03:40:12 <adsllc> See?
Jul 18 03:40:13 <peepsalot> we're mostly drunk
Jul 18 03:40:54 <adsllc> Organizing a Group Buy was one of the best things I've done recently.
Jul 18 03:40:59 <safire> is there a nice list of available apps other than opkg list?
Jul 18 03:41:19 <adsllc> But only because I got the phones first and got to say "Nyah Nyah - I've got your phone before you do!" to nine other people.
Jul 18 03:41:36 <Chocky> I did it, but I'm dubious about the best part
Jul 18 03:41:36 <peepsalot> can anyone help me find my sd card device?  the wiki instr. say to do "sudo fdisk /dev/mmcblk0".  but it's not under that name.
Jul 18 03:41:37 <vjacob> that's great too.
Jul 18 03:41:42 <ieatlint> vjacob, i've helped a lot of people... start paying me, and then you'll see consistent helpfulness...
Jul 18 03:41:44 <Chocky> hard to deal with a bunch of nutters
Jul 18 03:42:11 <rivalarrival> I resemble that remark
Jul 18 03:42:19 <Chocky> me too.
Jul 18 03:42:29 <Stroller> peepsalot: does `ls /dev/disk/*` give you any clues?
Jul 18 03:42:39 <ieatlint> peepsalot, you don't need sudo, there is only root on the thing
Jul 18 03:42:48 <adsllc> peepsalot:  It's under the SIM card.  Or maybe in /media/card.  Or maybe /dev/mmcblk0p1
Jul 18 03:42:55 <Chocky> cat /proc/partitions
Jul 18 03:43:09 <peepsalot> ieatlint, this is for formatting my sd card from a desktop, ubuntu
Jul 18 03:43:15 <ieatlint> oh
Jul 18 03:43:21 <ieatlint> that's why
Jul 18 03:43:21 <SpeedEvil> peepsalot: /dev/sda possibly
Jul 18 03:43:24 <SpeedEvil> or whatever
Jul 18 03:43:28 <ieatlint> careful though
Jul 18 03:43:29 <Chocky> same thing
Jul 18 03:43:30 <adsllc> It's actually /dev/mmcblk0
Jul 18 03:43:38 <ieatlint> do not format until you are 100% it is the right drive
Jul 18 03:43:40 <Chocky> might be /dev/sdb, c, etc
Jul 18 03:43:42 <ieatlint> lest you format your computer
Jul 18 03:43:43 <peepsalot> adsllc, i don't have any dev/mmc*
Jul 18 03:43:47 <Stroller> How big is the supplied SDcard? Could it be the 512meg one I see mounted at /media/card  when I run `df -h` ?
Jul 18 03:43:49 <Chocky> cat /proc/partitions again, also dmesg
Jul 18 03:44:02 <adsllc> Stroller: Yes, that is it.
Jul 18 03:44:07 <Chocky> most likely an /dev/sdX if it's a reader
Jul 18 03:44:11 <ieatlint> peepsalot, remove your card reader, then in a console type "tail -f /var/log/messages"
Jul 18 03:44:16 <ieatlint> re-insert card reader
Jul 18 03:44:17 <Stroller> Well knock me doen with a lead feather!
Jul 18 03:44:24 <Stroller> Well knock me down with a lead feather, too!
Jul 18 03:44:27 <adsllc> adsllc: on a desktop it's /dev/sd<something>.  On the moko it's /dev/mmcblk0
Jul 18 03:44:31 <ieatlint> the log file will tell you what the device is being named
Jul 18 03:44:34 * doc|home beats the crap out of Stroller with a lead feather
Jul 18 03:44:40 <Stroller> Ouch!
Jul 18 03:45:41 <ieatlint> who here knows c and wants to make fun of a piece of code i wrote that i can't for the life of me figure out why it fails?
Jul 18 03:45:44 <peepsalot> adsllc, ok, looks like sde, thx
Jul 18 03:45:54 * Stroller wonders if the presence of the SDcard is the cause of /proc/vhiss/hiss/crackle/crackle/gps_signal
Jul 18 03:46:11 <Stroller> ieatlint: me!
Jul 18 03:46:22 <adsllc> ieatlint:   Oh!  Oh!  Me! Me!  Pick me!
Jul 18 03:46:24 <ieatlint> http://ext.tehinterweb.com/freerunner/accel.txt
Jul 18 03:46:27 <Stroller> Noooo!
Jul 18 03:46:28 <Stroller> Me!
Jul 18 03:46:40 <ieatlint> trying to do a very basic program to get acquainted with the accelerometers
Jul 18 03:47:13 <adsllc> ieatlint: Where were you 20 minutes ago?  I've already got a very similar program written and working.
Jul 18 03:47:25 <ieatlint> i was eating dinner
Jul 18 03:47:30 <Chocky> I like how the medai player randomly doesn't start
Jul 18 03:47:36 <adsllc> ieatlint: Stand by, I'll post it.
Jul 18 03:49:00 <SirBob1701> how do i install the keyboard for the asu so i can text?
Jul 18 03:49:32 <mmontour> ieatlint: how does it fail?
Jul 18 03:49:40 <SirBob1701> it just doesn't show up at all
Jul 18 03:50:11 <ieatlint> sometimes segfault, sometimes bus error... balgrind says "Address 0x2265a487fce3f is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd" on line 46 (in display function, marked with a comment)
Jul 18 03:50:20 <kd8ikt> old news there Stroller 
Jul 18 03:50:22 <ieatlint> valgrind
Jul 18 03:50:29 <adsllc> ieatling: http://www.adsllc.com/tmp/
Jul 18 03:50:54 <Stroller> Hmmmn... how do I install gcc? 
Jul 18 03:50:59 <Hydrant> anyone using qtopia and try to sync music to their FR? 
Jul 18 03:51:13 <Stroller> kd8ikt: what what?
Jul 18 03:51:45 <mmontour> the fread in accelin() seems to be reading more bytes than the size of struct input_event
Jul 18 03:52:27 <ieatlint> indeed
Jul 18 03:52:37 <ieatlint> heh, i knew it was something stupid :P
Jul 18 03:52:43 <Chocky> hm, kobodeluxe is better in landscape
Jul 18 03:52:43 <ieatlint> just going use a sizeof operator
Jul 18 03:52:48 <peepsalot> is it possible to set up for the option to boot into more than two images?
Jul 18 03:53:12 <mmontour> ieatlint: also watch out for structure padding with that 'char' in the middle of those shorts
Jul 18 03:53:29 <adsllc> mmontour: Ding ding ding!  Nicely done.
Jul 18 03:53:43 <ieatlint> the char is there to pad it
Jul 18 03:54:09 <Chocky> careful.  ARM doesn't do the same as classic x86 C
Jul 18 03:54:15 <adsllc> ieatlint: fread( &buf, 1, 24, input ) -> fread(&buf,sizeof(buf),1,input)
Jul 18 03:54:32 <Chocky> you might need to use __attrbute__ ((packed)) or similar
Jul 18 03:54:38 <ieatlint> yep, i already switched it...
Jul 18 03:54:49 <Chocky> and don't forget that chars are _unsigned_
Jul 18 03:55:33 <doc|home> anyone know anything about these: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26822&vpn=PSF4GMCSDHC6&manufacture=Patriot&promoid=1046 ?
Jul 18 03:55:46 <doc|home> sorry, these http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24236&vpn=PSF8GSDHC6&manufacture=Patriot&promoid=1046
Jul 18 03:56:07 <doc|home> actually, lets go with the first one :D
Jul 18 03:56:12 <doc|home> given it's actually micro sd :/
Jul 18 03:56:18 <Hydrant> very interesting
Jul 18 03:57:33 <adsllc> doc|home: Go 8G or you'll kick yourself later.
Jul 18 03:58:07 <SirBob1701> can someone help me debug why the asu's keyboard doesn't show.  i have no idea where to begin
Jul 18 03:58:37 <adsllc> doc|home: Is that price in Canadian dollars?  I see the CAD next to the price.
Jul 18 03:58:45 <doc|home> adsllc: it is
Jul 18 03:59:12 <Hydrant> where do you get an 8GB version ?
Jul 18 03:59:25 <doc|home> to be honest, I'm not sure I'm bothered about 8gb, I don't plan on using it for media
Jul 18 03:59:36 <Chocky> those gigabits
Jul 18 03:59:44 <adsllc> I'd start looking for an 8G here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010070068+1053131144+1053313634&name=8GB
Jul 18 03:59:45 <doc|home> I have a 1gb card in my n800 and it's probably enough
Jul 18 03:59:59 <doc|home> newegg don't deliver to canuckistan last I checked
Jul 18 04:00:07 <macdonalder> correct
Jul 18 04:00:14 <yyl> Hi ! Every body , I got a FreeRunner  Dboard, and how do I start...??
Jul 18 04:00:17 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: ASU is pre alpha, those of us who choose to use it should be aware of the implications of that and be willing to accept the consequences  :) - ime the asu kb is finicky, sometimes goes away for no aparent reason, just have to cancel out and get back in ime
Jul 18 04:00:18 * jeffszusz blinks at canuckistan
Jul 18 04:00:18 <doc|home> macdonalder: wussing out? ;) nah, just joking.
Jul 18 04:00:26 * Chocky laffs
Jul 18 04:00:39 <doc|home> I can say that, I live there :)
Jul 18 04:00:40 <Chocky> Canadiania
Jul 18 04:00:45 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: it hasn't even shown up for me yet at all
Jul 18 04:00:46 <jeffszusz> lol
Jul 18 04:00:47 <macdonalder> doc|home: haha yeah, can't handle the openness
Jul 18 04:00:51 <doc|home> bwahaha
Jul 18 04:00:52 <macdonalder> it's just too extreme for me
Jul 18 04:00:58 <doc|home> s/openness/brokenness :)
Jul 18 04:01:04 <macdonalder> heh
Jul 18 04:01:11 <macdonalder> they're synonymous?
Jul 18 04:01:13 <macdonalder> :P
Jul 18 04:01:20 <adsllc> doc|home: That explains the CAD pricing.  :)  I also see that newegg 8G are class 4 instead of the class 6 4G.
Jul 18 04:01:25 <doc|home> macdonalder: hehe
Jul 18 04:01:27 <mmontour> doc|home: www.dealextreme.com has an 8G Sandisk uSD for $39.41 and they claim worldwide free shipping
Jul 18 04:01:31 <doc|home> adsllc: hmmm
Jul 18 04:01:34 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: it only appears at certain times, composing a sms/e-mail, folling in a field for a contact, etc
Jul 18 04:01:36 <doc|home> mmontour: oh, nice
Jul 18 04:01:38 <peepsalot> adsllc, what's the class mean?
Jul 18 04:01:45 <adsllc> Speed.
Jul 18 04:01:47 <doc|home> mmontour: it gets bonus marks for being sandisk too
Jul 18 04:01:49 <peepsalot> ah
Jul 18 04:02:01 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: ya when i'm in the sms composing with the text cursor blinking it doesn't show up
Jul 18 04:02:16 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: trying another reboot
Jul 18 04:02:25 <AntonTakk> try touching the very bottom middle of the screen with a stylus?
Jul 18 04:02:27 <peepsalot> so how do you translate class numbers into some meaningful measurement of speed?
Jul 18 04:02:45 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: ok
Jul 18 04:02:45 <macdonalder> doc|home really just needs the 8GB for all the ascii porn he intends to keep on it
Jul 18 04:02:47 <doc|home> peepsalot: higher class = faster
Jul 18 04:02:54 <doc|home> higher number that is
Jul 18 04:02:59 <Hydrant> what's the best way to put music onto the phone?  just via the sd card ?
Jul 18 04:03:00 <rivalarrival> oooh, ascii porn.  That's nasty. :-)
Jul 18 04:03:13 <doc|home> macdonalder: ascii porn on a 300dpi screen? are you insane? proper jpegs damn it!
Jul 18 04:03:19 <mmontour> I want a card big enough for Mokopedia
Jul 18 04:03:21 <Iinfinyte> Hrm, my web browser won't uhh.. Go anywhere. >_>
Jul 18 04:03:24 <AntonTakk> doc|home: what class can saturate the shares 7m bus?  :)
Jul 18 04:03:31 <doc|home> AntonTakk: class 0 :)
Jul 18 04:03:37 <peepsalot> doc|home, sure, but there must be some point where the speed is faster than the freerunner bus handles, no?
Jul 18 04:03:51 <doc|home> peepsalot: most likely, but is the freerunner the last phone you'll ever buy?
Jul 18 04:03:58 <Chocky> 
Jul 18 04:04:02 <Chocky> could be :p
Jul 18 04:04:05 <doc|home> heh
Jul 18 04:04:07 <rivalarrival> Nah, the damn thing will be dead in 2 years. :)
Jul 18 04:04:12 <AntonTakk> doc|home: guess there's no point in getting faster, unless you intend to load it via computer/laptop
Jul 18 04:04:13 <peepsalot> doc|home, i will likely get a new sd card before i get a new phone :-P
Jul 18 04:04:43 <doc|home> mmontour: hmm, seems to be class 4 :/
Jul 18 04:05:34 <AntonTakk> doc|home: nope, i intend to upgrade my cell phone when OM makes improved hardware available  ;)
Jul 18 04:05:34 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: nope doesn't show up
Jul 18 04:05:38 <adsllc> doc|home: But by the time he buys a new phone, 8G of flash will cost about $3.50.
Jul 18 04:05:53 <Hydrant> doc|home: tigerdirect has micro sd
Jul 18 04:05:59 <Hydrant> doc|home: not such a good deal though
Jul 18 04:06:22 <adsllc> I can give you a good deal on some write-only memory...
Jul 18 04:06:51 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: hrm, odd
Jul 18 04:07:12 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: i'm using Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080718-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2
Jul 18 04:07:16 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: try doing a contact yet? activating one of the fields tends to bring the kb up
Jul 18 04:07:28 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: i'll try it
Jul 18 04:07:31 <Hydrant> can I take out the sim card / sd card while the phones on ?
Jul 18 04:07:35 <Hydrant> probably not I guess
Jul 18 04:07:35 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: ah, i'm using the one from the 15th, let me check
Jul 18 04:08:04 <AntonTakk> Hydrant: technically possible if powering the phone over usb, maybe not a good idea thou?
Jul 18 04:08:24 <daMaestro> anyone have a link i can link to regarding when the next production run will be available for shipping?
Jul 18 04:08:26 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: ya no keyboard in contact
Jul 18 04:09:03 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: i'm using asu daily from 2008-07-15, might flash that image and give it a try
Jul 18 04:09:14 <adsllc> daMaestro: http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner says near the bottom they expect the next shipment on 7-25.
Jul 18 04:09:18 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: I shoudl flash to that?
Jul 18 04:09:18 <mmontour> daMaestro: there are probably some devices in transit to the distributors, but I wouldn't expect any firm dates for new production until some of the current hardware issues are better understood
Jul 18 04:09:25 <AntonTakk> kb is finicky, and sometimes runs away for no aparent reason, but at least it is there  :)
Jul 18 04:09:30 <daMaestro> i'm just writing up a blog
Jul 18 04:09:49 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk:  ok where can i dl it?
Jul 18 04:09:59 <doc|home> Hydrant: looked at them before, didn't buy from them for some reason. too expensive or also don't deliver deliver to canuckistan perhaps?
Jul 18 04:10:08 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: eh, same place you got 20080717?
Jul 18 04:10:12 <doc|home> adsllc: that's true :)
Jul 18 04:10:14 <SirBob1701> ya i see it
Jul 18 04:10:23 <SirBob1701> wonder if 16 or 17 has the problem lol
Jul 18 04:10:30 <Hydrant> doc|home: tigerdirect is in canada
Jul 18 04:10:38 <doc|home> oh, well, yeah! 
Jul 18 04:10:41 <doc|home> so, yeah!
Jul 18 04:10:45 * doc|home gets back in his box
Jul 18 04:11:10 <AntonTakk> daMaestro: picked up a freerunner yet?  :)
Jul 18 04:12:05 <Hydrant> oh I was asked, is the FR so-called multi-touch?  I mean, could you do something like on the iphone to resize the browser where you spread two fingers out ?
Jul 18 04:12:19 <AntonTakk> Hydrant: no
Jul 18 04:12:21 <doc|home> nope
Jul 18 04:12:21 <adsllc> Hydrant: Nope.  Hardware can't do it.
Jul 18 04:12:29 <Hydrant> hrrm, too bad
Jul 18 04:12:37 <daMaestro> AntonTakk, http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/damaestro/openmoko-freerunner ;-)
Jul 18 04:12:37 <AntonTakk> not imho
Jul 18 04:12:48 <doc|home> Hydrant: but it's uber high res, which makes for sharper text, droolworthy!
Jul 18 04:12:50 <peepsalot> is the uboot menu configurable similar to grub?
Jul 18 04:13:07 <Hydrant> I know it's high res, but it's still a pain in the arse to type on without a stylus
Jul 18 04:13:29 <mmontour> It's configurable - menu items are environment variables containing a sequence of u-boot commands
Jul 18 04:13:41 <adsllc> daMaestro: You mean 7-25, not 7-24, right?
Jul 18 04:13:47 <daMaestro> gah
Jul 18 04:14:11 <adsllc> daMaestro: typical blog.... :)
Jul 18 04:14:36 * daMaestro corrects
Jul 18 04:14:40 <peepsalot> mmontour, where are the env vars loaded from?
Jul 18 04:14:45 <AntonTakk> daMaestro: nice, i'm very happy with mine and asu, a bit slugish, perhaps, but already more stable than my wmp6 phone  :)
Jul 18 04:15:06 <mmontour> there's a u-boot_env partition on the flash
Jul 18 04:15:43 <mmontour> Wiki "Bootloader_environment" has details
Jul 18 04:16:16 <AntonTakk> anyone know if the ink pen in the fancy stylus is refillable?
Jul 18 04:16:55 <adsllc> AntonTakk: Dunno - but I'm willing to break it to find out... ::checking::
Jul 18 04:17:29 <peepsalot> i don't understand the purpose behind having two uboots
Jul 18 04:17:51 <AntonTakk> peepsalot: you can't wear one uboot on two feet!  :)
Jul 18 04:18:03 <mmontour> peepsalot: the NOR lets you recover if you screw up and flash a non-working one to NAND
Jul 18 04:18:16 <daMaestro> *without a debug board
Jul 18 04:18:24 <daMaestro> aka NOR == saves $100
Jul 18 04:18:27 <daMaestro> ;-)
Jul 18 04:18:39 <mmontour> yeah
Jul 18 04:18:50 <adsllc> AntonTakk: It looks like - yes.  Grab the knurled tip and pull straight out.
Jul 18 04:19:12 <adsllc> AntonTakk: Then pull the pen portion out.
Jul 18 04:19:29 <daMaestro> AntonTakk, yeah.. the asu seemed to run better (visually) on the gta01 then on the gta02.. but that is likely just a software issue
Jul 18 04:19:43 <peepsalot> daMaestro, you mean for flashing uboot itself?
Jul 18 04:19:51 <AntonTakk> adsllc: sweet
Jul 18 04:19:59 <AntonTakk> wonder where to buy replacements
Jul 18 04:20:21 <adsllc> AntonTakk: I assume any office supply store - it doesn't seem very technical.
Jul 18 04:20:36 <AntonTakk> true, looks rather generic, in fact
Jul 18 04:20:47 <adsllc> AntonTakk: I prefer "open".
Jul 18 04:21:09 <AntonTakk> ok, that's fair  :)
Jul 18 04:21:47 <daMaestro> wow, the asu actually makes phone calls and doesn't crash
Jul 18 04:22:23 <adsllc> AntonTakk: Now available - the OpenMoko stylus - with the patented "Just jam it in there" tip!
Jul 18 04:22:49 <SirBob1701> lol
Jul 18 04:23:05 <AntonTakk> daMaestro: hehe
Jul 18 04:23:14 <adsllc> AntonTakk: The plastic stylus is also removable in case you wear that out...
Jul 18 04:23:38 <AntonTakk> wear out the plastic stylus.....how? chewing on it?
Jul 18 04:23:47 <SirBob1701> i don't want to see the screen if you wear out the stylus on it
Jul 18 04:24:03 <adsllc> AntonTakk: <sarcasm>
Jul 18 04:24:10 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: invisible shield++  ;)
Jul 18 04:24:20 <AntonTakk> wear out as many styli tips as you want
Jul 18 04:24:22 <SirBob1701> o where did you get that?
Jul 18 04:24:54 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: haven't yet, goping to thou, was mentioned in the community list - zagg.com, i think
Jul 18 04:25:08 <SirBob1701> huh i'll have to keep an eye out
Jul 18 04:25:32 <adsllc> AntonTakk: I've considered the shield, but I don't want any extra glare.  Since I know the screen is replaceable (and I'm just as likely to crack it as scratch it) I plan on just replacing it.
Jul 18 04:25:52 <AntonTakk> screen is replaceable?
Jul 18 04:25:56 <SpeedEvil> why do you think the screen is replacable?
Jul 18 04:25:58 <SpeedEvil> It's not.
Jul 18 04:26:04 <SpeedEvil> It's glued onto the PCB.
Jul 18 04:26:08 <adsllc> http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/openmoko-neo-freerunner-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php
Jul 18 04:26:25 <Hydrant> alright, I got some music to play on the phone.. for a song
Jul 18 04:26:26 <adsllc> SpeedEvil: Oh, well, I just assumed...  bad idea I guess.
Jul 18 04:26:28 <Hydrant> then it screwed up
Jul 18 04:26:50 <Hydrant> I might get an 8GB micro SD card, then have my own little iphone thingee
Jul 18 04:27:31 <Hydrant> alright, off to bed
Jul 18 04:27:31 <Hydrant> night
Jul 18 04:27:36 <adsllc> night
Jul 18 04:27:41 <AntonTakk> adsllc: i have almost that much glare with just the plastic film that shipped on the screen
Jul 18 04:27:58 <AntonTakk> for the added protection - totally worth it
Jul 18 04:28:10 <daMaestro> adsllc, i assume that the full body includes the screen?
Jul 18 04:28:13 <retracile> Anyone here using the ASU nightly builds?
Jul 18 04:28:15 <adsllc> SpeedEvil: Define "glue".  Is this the "easily comes off with a hair dryer" glue or the "Aviation Grade Epoxy" glue?
Jul 18 04:28:23 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: dunno
Jul 18 04:28:23 <AntonTakk> also, i'm anally carefull about my touch screen devices  :)
Jul 18 04:28:31 <daMaestro> retracile, i just booted the 20080717 build
Jul 18 04:28:49 <retracile> daMaestro: any first impressions?
Jul 18 04:29:00 <adsllc> SpeedEvil: Do you remember where you saw that it was glued on?  I'm curious.
Jul 18 04:29:08 <AntonTakk> retracile: i'm using the build from 20080715, works fine, except the image viewer
Jul 18 04:29:28 <AntonTakk> been using it for three days, in fact
Jul 18 04:29:44 <daMaestro> retracile, it's the asu? still needs work
Jul 18 04:29:51 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: however - you're wrong about glare - shields with silicone gel backings - like the one I'm trying to sell occasionally, and mean to put up on ebay - do not have any gap between the front of the touchscreen and the back of the protector - the gel glues itself (removably) to the screen.
Jul 18 04:30:09 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: community? mailing list perhaps march?
Jul 18 04:30:13 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rb452a8975d7d 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Implement message handling
Jul 18 04:30:13 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * ra4e40f656ca3 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Enable important NAV messages
Jul 18 04:30:17 <daMaestro> AntonTakk, are you using the zagg cover?
Jul 18 04:30:20 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: it was a discussion about spares.
Jul 18 04:30:39 <adsllc> SpeedEvil: The community list re: the sheild I read said that it increased glare slightly, but livable.
Jul 18 04:30:55 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: the one I have has made no visible difference.
Jul 18 04:30:58 <retracile> daMaestro: any specifics?
Jul 18 04:31:03 <SpeedEvil> (to my GTA01)
Jul 18 04:31:30 <adsllc> SpeedEvil: Noted - thanks!
Jul 18 04:31:47 <retracile> AntonTakk: how well does it work as a phone?
Jul 18 04:32:16 * SpeedEvil is offering screen protectors for $5 shipped - msg me if interested.
Jul 18 04:33:05 <daMaestro> retracile, it works better then expected? but still has a long way to go..
Jul 18 04:33:13 <retracile> heh :)
Jul 18 04:33:36 <retracile> daMaestro: does it have a half-way-decent keyboard?
Jul 18 04:34:19 <retracile> ... and what is the difference between the jffs2's labeled with 'devel' vs 'qtopia-x11'?
Jul 18 04:34:54 <daMaestro> i've not used the keyboard yet
Jul 18 04:35:10 <SirBob1701> AntonTakk: If i follow wiki instructions to install tango on asu do i have to do anything extra to get a desktop icon?
Jul 18 04:36:00 <kd8ikt> cool i got tango gps working
Jul 18 04:36:12 <SpeedEvil> kd8ikt: :)
Jul 18 04:36:15 <SirBob1701> kd8ikt: 2007.2 or ASU ?
Jul 18 04:36:16 <kd8ikt> i think i'm the only dot in USA
Jul 18 04:36:27 <kd8ikt> ugh OM 
Jul 18 04:36:36 <kd8ikt> 2007 heavy tweaked
Jul 18 04:36:39 <kd8ikt> new kernel
Jul 18 04:36:55 <kd8ikt> pkg upgrades misc custom stuff
Jul 18 04:36:59 <ieatlint> stop trying to look at my dot
Jul 18 04:37:00 <Stroller> You got tango gps working? That's not such a big deal, kd8ikt. C'mon - all you had to do was remove the DScard
Jul 18 04:37:04 <kd8ikt> sd card is in also
Jul 18 04:37:05 <Stroller> SDcard
Jul 18 04:37:08 <Stroller> oooh!
Jul 18 04:37:13 * Stroller looks impressed
Jul 18 04:37:16 <Stroller> I take it all back
Jul 18 04:37:20 <SirBob1701> kd8ikt:  what did you do?
Jul 18 04:37:25 <Stroller> What image / kernel is that, then?
Jul 18 04:37:35 <kd8ikt> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin
Jul 18 04:37:52 <adsllc> That one's working fine for me.
Jul 18 04:37:53 <kd8ikt> though i dont have anything on the card
Jul 18 04:38:18 <adsllc> I've got the latest tangogps with it's map cache on my sd card and it worked dandy.
Jul 18 04:38:33 <kd8ikt> oh yea? i need to do that
Jul 18 04:39:50 <adsllc> Once you get the latest installed from tangogps.org and change the cache dir, the only trick is that it give you no download progress.
Jul 18 04:40:20 <josch> mmontour, which language?
Jul 18 04:40:20 <adsllc> I had it connected via USB and watched the network activity on my host system to know when it was done...
Jul 18 04:40:21 <Stroller> Cool!
Jul 18 04:40:53 <mmontour> josch: for mokopedia? english 
Jul 18 04:40:59 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: wiki instructions for tangogps on asu? link please!
Jul 18 04:41:17 <kd8ikt> 255m altitude
Jul 18 04:41:18 <SirBob1701> no i mean the standard instructions
Jul 18 04:41:19 <SirBob1701> lol
Jul 18 04:41:55 <SpeedEvil> adsllc: I think the latest version has a linumber for download queue
Jul 18 04:42:24 <Stroller> So kd8ikt, is that a 2007.2 image, or ASU?
Jul 18 04:42:34 <AntonTakk> SirBob1701: when i tried tango on asu it was horible ugly, and complained alot about dbus and such
Jul 18 04:42:46 <kd8ikt> i only flashed the kernel... i just got it today
Jul 18 04:43:32 <kd8ikt> and i think there is a glitch with the power manegment menu, cause dim/nolock actually dim/locks
Jul 18 04:43:57 <kd8ikt> while dim/lock puts into a comma
Jul 18 04:44:47 <retracile> kd8ikt: Wow, into a comma?  miniturization has come a long way! ;)
Jul 18 04:45:01 <Stroller> lol
Jul 18 04:45:12 <Stroller> Maybe it's like a 128 point font?
Jul 18 04:45:14 <cjb> hm, how do kernel modules on FR work?
Jul 18 04:45:23 <cjb> if I install:  http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/uImage-2.6.24+git21+642cbda5f3b7e7a61512426e1d30a41ab4691123-r0-om-gta02.bin
Jul 18 04:45:36 <cjb> do I need a set of modules from somewhere, and if so, where do I install them?
Jul 18 04:46:03 <kd8ikt> 9though last boot sound seems to have died
Jul 18 04:46:08 <josch> mmontour, after this weekend i may tell you how big enwiki will get ;)
Jul 18 04:48:09 <adsllc> kd8ikt: The sound does not survive a suspend on a default image.
Jul 18 04:48:26 <AntonTakk> welp, night all
Jul 18 04:48:27 <kd8ikt> has for me a few times
Jul 18 04:48:34 <AntonTakk> got work in the morning  :)
Jul 18 04:48:35 <mmontour> I hope that it will fit on an 8G with enough room left over for all of my other stuff. 
Jul 18 04:48:47 <Stroller> cjb: good question. Why's no-one answering??!?!?
Jul 18 04:49:22 <AntonTakk> i have not needed to install modules with any of the flashing i have done
Jul 18 04:49:27 <peepsalot> i try untarring an image, and I get all these messages like  ./dev/hda8  tar: ./dev/hda8: Cannot mknod: Operation not permitted
Jul 18 04:49:34 <kd8ikt> something is wrong sound is dead
Jul 18 04:50:01 <kd8ikt> only comming through headphones
Jul 18 04:50:13 <ajbrun> hey all - anyone got their invisible sheild for their free runner yet?\
Jul 18 04:50:14 <kd8ikt> there we go
Jul 18 04:50:27 <Stroller> ajbrun: no
Jul 18 04:50:35 <ajbrun> k :p
Jul 18 04:50:41 <kd8ikt> pluged/unplungered her
Jul 18 04:50:42 <Stroller> Maybe all the modules in the root FS are compatible with different kernels
Jul 18 04:50:47 <cjb> kd8ikt: how about you, did you need to flash modules?
Jul 18 04:50:48 <mmontour> peepsalot: are you un-tarring as root? 
Jul 18 04:50:50 <dcordes_> ajbrun: hi
Jul 18 04:50:54 <Marcel_M> cjb there is a modules.tgz with all the modules from the kernel, if you use an image from the same dir some of the modules (not all) are in the image
Jul 18 04:50:58 <kd8ikt> nope
Jul 18 04:51:03 <kd8ikt> no modules for me
Jul 18 04:51:03 <ajbrun> think i'll be ordering the screen only one when i get round to it then unless someone says the other one is amazing
Jul 18 04:51:07 <SirBob1701> how do you get a gpe application to show up in the menu on asu. and why the hell don't these things have find or locate on them?
Jul 18 04:51:09 <kd8ikt> i want ipv6 though
Jul 18 04:51:11 <daMaestro> 20% off invisible shield for the freerunner: s4yxbq v7tg94
Jul 18 04:51:19 <cjb> Marcel_M: oh, that's interesting.  but I don't see one of those in:  http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/
Jul 18 04:51:21 <peepsalot> mmontour, yeah just realized that i wasn't.  thanks
Jul 18 04:51:26 <daMaestro> each of those codes are one time use, so if it doesn't work... sorry
Jul 18 04:51:26 <cjb> oops, yes I do:
Jul 18 04:51:29 <Marcel_M> but i dont know if they fit into the flash
Jul 18 04:51:31 <cjb> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/modules-2.6.24+git21+642cbda5f3b7e7a61512426e1d30a41ab4691123-r0-om-gta02.tgz
Jul 18 04:51:40 <Marcel_M> jo
Jul 18 04:51:44 <mmontour> The rootfs has some important modules (like sound) already installed. Others are available as .ipks
Jul 18 04:51:48 <daMaestro> Dave, ping
Jul 18 04:51:53 <linuxxr> cts like it has a root password
Jul 18 04:52:04 <cjb> ok!  so, I guess it's usual to flash the uImage into the kernel partition and then unpack the others, maybe onto the NAND?  it seems to have lots of space free.
Jul 18 04:52:11 <linuxxr> acts like it has a root password?
Jul 18 04:52:39 <linuxxr> is the root password empty i guess?
Jul 18 04:52:45 <daMaestro> linuxxr, yes
Jul 18 04:52:52 <cjb> mmontour: Right, but I'm upgrading to a new rootfs and kernel, and want to know how to match them up.
Jul 18 04:53:08 <linuxxr> i try to ssh an it says wrong pass
Jul 18 04:53:35 <Railer> can you ssh in the system from windows?
Jul 18 04:53:42 <linuxxr> ssh root@192.168.0.202
Jul 18 04:53:48 <linuxxr> not tried
Jul 18 04:54:19 <mmontour> the best way is to get a rootfs and kernel that were built together. 
Jul 18 04:54:27 <linuxxr> its 202 correct?
Jul 18 04:54:39 <adsllc> yes
Jul 18 04:54:42 <linuxxr> not 200
Jul 18 04:54:51 <adsllc> 200 should be the host computer
Jul 18 04:55:23 <kd8ikt> is it just me or does the dialers sound level not work
Jul 18 04:55:31 <kd8ikt> like i cant turn the volume up
Jul 18 04:55:37 <kd8ikt> it just stays the same
Jul 18 04:55:51 <adsllc> You can try to reset the root password using "passwd" from the terminal.  That will either fix it or break it worse.  :)
Jul 18 04:56:02 <adsllc> kd8ikt: There is no working on-screen volume control
Jul 18 04:56:12 <kd8ikt> shh my passwd is moko
Jul 18 04:56:20 <kd8ikt> dont tell anyone
Jul 18 04:56:38 <SirBob1701> how do you get a gtk application to show up in the menu on asu?
Jul 18 04:57:23 <adsllc> kd8ikt: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Adjusting_the_Volume
Jul 18 04:57:56 <adsllc> kd8ikt: You should really give that whole page a good read.
Jul 18 04:58:35 <Stroller> Very NSFW: http://www.cakefarts.com/
Jul 18 04:58:52 <kd8ikt> hey screw that how do i change my ringtone and click beep
Jul 18 05:01:32 <goldenhawk> My freerunner has arrived, and I'm trying to figure out if it has the GPS defect.  I installed 'GPS Sight', and it's giving me altitude, and a line is showing up in my 'path', but  it says 'nan' for the latitude and longitude and I've been waiting for a while.
Jul 18 05:01:56 <kd8ikt> in SS "signal strenght"
Jul 18 05:02:05 <Stroller> goldenhawk: have you tried removing the SD card?
Jul 18 05:02:06 <kd8ikt> i want ipv6 thoughs you see?
Jul 18 05:02:17 <kd8ikt> how many sats do you see i mean
Jul 18 05:02:17 <cjb> Is the problem with having to erase rootfs before flashing a larger (or was it smaller?) one still present?
Jul 18 05:02:29 <peepsalot> woot i'm booting qtopia from microsd
Jul 18 05:02:36 <goldenhawk> Stroller: There's no SD card.  A sim card is in it.
Jul 18 05:02:42 <goldenhawk> But no SD card
Jul 18 05:02:57 <cjb> goldenhawk: I suggest the agpstool, it's easy to understand.
Jul 18 05:03:04 <kd8ikt> Stroller: did you try that latest kernel?
Jul 18 05:03:13 * cjb is about to try it
Jul 18 05:03:13 <Stroller> kd8ikt: naw, not yet
Jul 18 05:03:17 <kd8ikt> ugh
Jul 18 05:03:24 <adsllc> goldenhawk: GPS Sight has a number of bugs.  Use the agpstool.
Jul 18 05:03:31 <MadTBone> SpeedEvil: how does the screen protector affect touchscreen sensitivity?
Jul 18 05:03:33 <Stroller> I'm not gonna until I've finished this work I'm procrastinating over
Jul 18 05:03:38 <goldenhawk> adsllc Okay
Jul 18 05:03:41 <Stroller> I'm not gonna tinker too much until I've finished this work I'm procrastinating over
Jul 18 05:04:05 <adsllc> goldenhawk: If you just got the phone and you haven't updated the kernel - you have the bug.
Jul 18 05:04:21 <mmontour> cjb: that was fixed a long time ago
Jul 18 05:04:28 <Stroller> `opkg upgrade` got me a July 16th kernel, anyway
Jul 18 05:04:40 <kd8ikt> love how all my sim's contacts are read
Jul 18 05:04:53 <goldenhawk> adsllc: The problems with the GPS have to do with a kerel bug?  I heard things about an antenna problem
Jul 18 05:05:00 <kd8ikt> i started calling everyone in my phonebook
Jul 18 05:05:44 <Stroller> goldenhawk: read link in /topic
Jul 18 05:05:45 <adsllc> goldenhawk: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems
Jul 18 05:05:57 <goldenhawk> Thanks ^.^
Jul 18 05:06:26 <goldenhawk> ... ?
Jul 18 05:06:33 <goldenhawk> I have no SD card inserted
Jul 18 05:06:40 <cjb> mmontour: great, okay
Jul 18 05:07:04 <adsllc> goldenhawk: A small number of people may have had an antenna problem, but most are due to electrical interference between the SD card and the GPS.  The updated kernel works around this by disabling the SD clock pin when possible.
Jul 18 05:07:07 <cjb> mmontour: sorry, the last time I used a Neo was GTA01v2 :)
Jul 18 05:07:24 <goldenhawk> adsllc: Thanks :)
Jul 18 05:07:27 <adsllc> goldenhawk: Then your GPS should work great.
Jul 18 05:07:48 <mmontour> wow. makes me feel like a noob with my GTA01Bv4
Jul 18 05:09:21 <retracile> The ASU booting image made me laugh. :D
Jul 18 05:10:58 <kd8ikt> you have to manually enable gprs right?
Jul 18 05:11:30 <cjb> kd8ikt: yeah, see the wiki page
Jul 18 05:11:36 <cjb> kd8ikt: you have to set up pppd, looks like
Jul 18 05:11:39 <adsllc> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS
Jul 18 05:13:13 <kd8ikt> cool cause i dont want to use it (cost to much for me)
Jul 18 05:13:27 <kd8ikt> they charge by kb
Jul 18 05:13:31 <peepsalot> given an identical image, is it faster to boot from internal flash or microSD?
Jul 18 05:13:44 <kd8ikt> my bet internal
Jul 18 05:14:15 <goldenhawk> adsllc: Where can I find agpstool?
Jul 18 05:14:25 <cjb> goldenhawk: opkg install agpstool, I think
Jul 18 05:14:46 <adsllc> goldenhawk: It's called Openmoko AGPS UI on the menu.
Jul 18 05:14:57 <cjb> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Howto_Test_Your_GPS_with_agpsui
Jul 18 05:15:03 <cjb> opkg install openmoko-agpsui
Jul 18 05:15:20 <dTx> I got 200 failed tests when I ran that
Jul 18 05:15:25 <dTx> not one connected
Jul 18 05:15:31 <cjb> dTx: that's not so abnormal
Jul 18 05:15:33 <adsllc> 'opkg install openmoko-agpsui" == agpstool
Jul 18 05:15:37 <doc|home> anyone got a comparison table for images?
Jul 18 05:15:40 <cjb> dTx: it takes about that long
Jul 18 05:15:49 <cjb> doc|home: you could read the ars review
Jul 18 05:16:01 <goldenhawk> I presume that will need me to get the phone on the internet?  *hack tweak poke* ^.^
Jul 18 05:16:01 <cjb> http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars
Jul 18 05:16:04 <dTx> should I do the opkg update && opkg upgrade
Jul 18 05:16:06 <doc|home> ah, here it is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions
Jul 18 05:16:12 <doc|home> cjb: thanks!
Jul 18 05:16:34 <dTx> Is the repo in a stable state?
Jul 18 05:16:36 <cjb> dTx: just opkg update && opkg install openmoko-agpsui is fine
Jul 18 05:16:54 <dTx> well, but just in general
Jul 18 05:17:05 <dTx> will it be more stable?
Jul 18 05:17:06 <adsllc> I did it with no regrets.
Jul 18 05:17:22 <dTx> also why is the calendar grayed out?
Jul 18 05:17:31 <adsllc> Just do it from the phone and not via SSH.  It will drop all SSH connections in the middle and make you grumble.
Jul 18 05:17:35 <cjb> I decided to flash a later rootfs instead, I guess
Jul 18 05:17:38 <adsllc> g'nite all
Jul 18 05:17:47 <dTx> I run all that from inside screen anyway
Jul 18 05:18:21 <Stroller> adsllc: alternatively one can ssh in, run screen & do the whole update. Just ssh back in & `screen -Rd` when the connection is dropped
Jul 18 05:18:48 <dTx> I find that the ssh session is never completely dropped for some reason when using screen
Jul 18 05:18:53 <dTx> I don't know why
Jul 18 05:18:57 <dTx> even on sshd restarts
Jul 18 05:19:00 <rivalarrival> AHHHHHHH!!!!
Jul 18 05:19:07 <rivalarrival> sorry, 
Jul 18 05:19:14 <rivalarrival> just had to get that off my chest/
Jul 18 05:19:54 <dTx> so why is the calendar app grayed out?
Jul 18 05:20:00 <cjb> anyone know how to get around the signature verification failurs with opkg?
Jul 18 05:20:08 <dTx> it works anyway
Jul 18 05:20:15 <rivalarrival> cjb: Death threats?
Jul 18 05:20:22 <dTx> sig verification doesn't stop updating
Jul 18 05:20:27 <cjb> ok
Jul 18 05:20:39 <rivalarrival> If the answer isn't "death threats", I'm pretty much useless...
Jul 18 05:20:41 <dTx> according to the wiki that is :-P
Jul 18 05:24:27 * cjb sees the "Booting" screen :)
Jul 18 05:24:37 <cjb> man, tangogps is awesome
Jul 18 05:24:55 <dTx> anyone know why my volume is so low?
Jul 18 05:24:57 <cjb> I wanna send them money.  If this were an iPhone app, they'd be getting shareware registrations all over the place.
Jul 18 05:25:44 <walrustown> weeeehoooooooo! cross compiling works
Jul 18 05:25:47 <dTx> everybody says I sound muffled
Jul 18 05:27:23 <kd8ikt> /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/touchscreen_click.wav
Jul 18 05:27:26 <kd8ikt> MUWAHAHA
Jul 18 05:27:41 <rivalarrival> Replace that with the sound of silence?
Jul 18 05:27:55 <doc|home> hmmm, anyone want to update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions with battery life comparisons
Jul 18 05:28:15 <kd8ikt> NAH  with something more annoying http://we.trekbeyond.org/~kd8ikt/communicator.mp3
Jul 18 05:28:57 <rivalarrival> How about cymbals crashing?
Jul 18 05:29:15 <doc|home> kd8ikt: that is waaaay more annoying 
Jul 18 05:30:24 <rivalarrival> replace it with SimonAndGarfunkle-Sound-of-silence.wav
Jul 18 05:30:56 <dTx> replace it with the most annoying sound in the world from Dumb and Dumber
Jul 18 05:30:56 <rivalarrival> or, better yet, porno-moan.wav
Jul 18 05:31:28 <doc|home> not sure I want to listen to uuh uuh uuh uuh every time I use my phone
Jul 18 05:32:00 <dTx> replace it with a 2600hz tone
Jul 18 05:32:37 <dTx> you'd be l337
Jul 18 05:32:41 <cjb> odd, with the latest 2007.2 I get "modem power up failed" from libgsmtool
Jul 18 05:32:42 <rivalarrival> How about a guy with a mexican accent saying "Cleek" every time?
Jul 18 05:33:11 <rivalarrival> WTF. Boots on the booting screen?
Jul 18 05:33:20 <cjb> rivalarrival: funny, huh?
Jul 18 05:33:35 * rivalarrival puts on his robe and wizard hat
Jul 18 05:36:06 <cjb> hm.  "Modem power-up failed: 10".  :(
Jul 18 05:37:14 <rivalarrival> Why does it tell me every 10 seconds or so that it's connected?
Jul 18 05:39:04 <ieatlint> tests showed every 5 seconds got annoying
Jul 18 05:39:06 <cjb> gah!  same after reboot
Jul 18 05:39:18 <cjb> anyone else running latest 2007.2?
Jul 18 05:39:24 <cjb> maybe gsmd is broken?
Jul 18 05:39:31 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: heh.
Jul 18 05:39:46 <cjb> or, is there a kernel module associated with the GSM at all?
Jul 18 05:40:02 <goldenhawk> Sweet.  Thanks for your help with the GPS thing.
Jul 18 05:40:07 <rivalarrival> this SMS app on ASU?  Yeah, take that guy out back and shoot him.
Jul 18 05:40:18 <goldenhawk> 52 seconds to first fix and it gives me long and lat
Jul 18 05:40:30 <mmontour> cjb: no kernel module, it's just a serial port. Try a complete power cycle (disconnect usb and battery)
Jul 18 05:41:03 <cjb> mmontour: *nod*
Jul 18 05:41:40 <ieatlint> well, there is a way to power up the modem through /sys
Jul 18 05:41:52 <ieatlint> echo "1" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/power_on
Jul 18 05:41:56 <kd8ikt> not as bad as this dork i saw with a laptop sitting in a waiting room with his damn lame sounds one was probably windows critical alert that was a baby crying i wanted to beat his head in
Jul 18 05:42:41 <Railer> hey whats the default root when sshing in?
Jul 18 05:43:06 <dTx> enter
Jul 18 05:43:52 <Railer> ya no luck
Jul 18 05:44:07 <Railer> permission denied try again
Jul 18 05:44:11 <peepsalot> don't type "enter", just leave it blank and hit enter
Jul 18 05:44:23 <kd8ikt> hard return
Jul 18 05:44:30 <Railer> ya no didnt work
Jul 18 05:44:42 <kd8ikt> ssh root@openmoko
Jul 18 05:44:47 <kd8ikt> make sure your root
Jul 18 05:44:53 <kd8ikt> or logging in as
Jul 18 05:45:06 <kd8ikt> common fuckup
Jul 18 05:45:19 <kelvie> anyone good with SVN?
Jul 18 05:45:28 <kelvie> the mokomakefile build fails because the certificate retrieval fails at one point
Jul 18 05:45:34 <Railer> ok
Jul 18 05:45:44 <cjb> kelvie: you can run the svn command manually, and add the cert for the future
Jul 18 05:45:44 <kelvie> and I don't get the option to accept the certificate as it is not interactive
Jul 18 05:45:54 <kelvie> cjb: where is it added?
Jul 18 05:45:58 <Railer> thanks yes I fucked it up
Jul 18 05:46:01 <kelvie> I did run it manually.. I don't know where to check out the sources to though
Jul 18 05:46:03 <cjb> kelvie: right; if you run it at a terminal, you can choose to accept.  I guess it goes in .svn when you do that.
Jul 18 05:46:08 <kelvie> cjb: it does not :(
Jul 18 05:46:09 <cjb> kelvie: no, that's not necessary
Jul 18 05:46:18 <kelvie> it still goes to that step, and fails
Jul 18 05:46:19 <cjb> kelvie: once you've accepted it once, it should work non-interactively the next time
Jul 18 05:46:22 <cjb> hmph
Jul 18 05:46:24 <cjb> doesn't do that for me
Jul 18 05:46:34 <kelvie> even when I try to checkout a second time somewhere else, it fails
Jul 18 05:46:36 <cjb> were there two options, of the form "accept once", or "accept forever"?
Jul 18 05:46:43 <cjb> weird.  
Jul 18 05:46:43 <kelvie> yep, permanetly accept the cert
Jul 18 05:46:44 <kelvie> which I did
Jul 18 05:46:49 <kelvie> no files in ~/.svn changed
Jul 18 05:46:58 <cjb> something's messed up there.  you could strace -eopen svn co ...
Jul 18 05:47:19 <thewtex> what kind of shell does it use
Jul 18 05:47:27 <peepsalot> man flashing the internal flash is slowww
Jul 18 05:47:28 <thewtex> not bash, but ..
Jul 18 05:47:31 <cjb> thewtex: the fr?  sh and busybox.
Jul 18 05:47:33 <cjb> peepsalot: yeah
Jul 18 05:47:57 <peepsalot> so has anyone multi-booted?
Jul 18 05:48:02 <thewtex> cjb: if I login to ssh, I get busybox?
Jul 18 05:48:08 <peepsalot> aka > 2 boot images
Jul 18 05:48:10 <cjb> thewtex: yup.
Jul 18 05:48:16 <cjb> thewtex: busybox acting as sh, I believe.
Jul 18 05:48:34 <cjb> when you type "cp" or "ps" or whatever, they're just aliases to busybox
Jul 18 05:48:47 <cjb> and busybox looks at what command it was invoked as, and acts accordingly
Jul 18 05:48:57 <kelvie> cjb: ah.. ~/.subversion was owned by... root
Jul 18 05:49:02 <thewtex> cjb: interesting
Jul 18 05:49:03 <cjb> kelvie: d'oh!
Jul 18 05:49:12 <cjb> kelvie: glad you got it fixed, anyway
Jul 18 05:49:13 * thewtex examines busybox --help
Jul 18 05:49:18 <kelvie> cjb: I have a feeling Portage did that.. but thanks for your help :)
Jul 18 05:50:08 * kelvie grumbles on how the world should just use git regardless
Jul 18 05:50:49 <kd8ikt> hm noone has ported a paint app
Jul 18 05:51:06 <mmontour> peepsalot: you should be able to multi-boot more than 2 images if you put extra partitions on the SD-card
Jul 18 05:51:14 <kelvie> on that note, anyone have PyQt working on the freerunner?
Jul 18 05:51:15 <kd8ikt> touchscreen!? 
Jul 18 05:51:37 <dTx> need gimp
Jul 18 05:51:45 <kd8ikt> overkill
Jul 18 05:51:48 <kd8ikt> tuxpaint?
Jul 18 05:52:08 <Railer> hey I can shh root in fine but still no internet on the FR for doing updates, any suggestions?
Jul 18 05:52:10 <SpeedEvil> There was one on 2007.2 IIRC
Jul 18 05:52:17 * SpeedEvil tries to remember the name.
Jul 18 05:52:52 <MadTBone> anyone using the full keyboard found here http://www.ginguppin.de/node/15 ???
Jul 18 05:53:01 <kelvie> cjb: oh and I assume that's a common problem with the MokoMakeFile? the cert not being accepted?
Jul 18 05:53:07 <kelvie> if it is, I'm adding it to the wiki
Jul 18 05:53:09 <cjb> Railer: you might need to delete your original route
Jul 18 05:53:12 <cjb> kelvie: yup
Jul 18 05:53:20 <cjb> kelvie: common problem with scripted svn in general, really
Jul 18 05:53:35 <peepsalot> mmontour, yeah i guess i still just don't quite get how to change the boot settings, i'll have to play around a bit once this flash is done
Jul 18 05:53:40 <cjb> Railer: route del default; route add default gateway n.n.n.n, where that's your internet gateway
Jul 18 05:53:55 <Railer> ok
Jul 18 05:55:04 <cjb> anyone remember where that freerunner python script lives?
Jul 18 05:55:08 <mmontour> peepsalot: u-boot uses a cmd like "ext2load mmc 1:3" to load from partition 3 of the SD-card. Similarly you would use "root=/dev/mmcblk0p4" to have your rootfs on partition 4. Wiki "Bootloader_environment" for general info on u-boot settings
Jul 18 05:56:44 <kd8ikt> i havent even played with the accellerometers
Jul 18 05:56:58 <kd8ikt> jeez i've been up for like 48hrs straight
Jul 18 05:57:54 <Marcel_M> peepsalot: works fine on the neo (/me is booting from nand, mmcblk0p1 and mmcblk0p2 with mmcblk0p1 as standart) 
Jul 18 05:58:22 <peepsalot> standart?
Jul 18 05:58:38 <Marcel_M> instead of nand
Jul 18 05:59:38 <Marcel_M> i wrote what i have done here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD#Autoboot_from_SDHC
Jul 18 06:00:03 <peepsalot> ah ok
Jul 18 06:00:10 <thewtex> is load average supposed to be about 2.6 even with no apps open
Jul 18 06:00:49 <SpeedEvil> It often is
Jul 18 06:00:52 <cjb> root@om-gta02:~# uptime
Jul 18 06:00:52 <cjb>  03:23:54 up 24 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.31, 0.77, 0.65
Jul 18 06:01:08 <thewtex> cjb: what are you running?
Jul 18 06:01:13 <cjb> latest 2007.2
Jul 18 06:01:24 <thewtex> much better than stock?
Jul 18 06:01:33 <cjb> barely different so far
Jul 18 06:01:34 <thewtex> that is much better
Jul 18 06:01:41 <cjb> gsmd seems possibly flakier
Jul 18 06:01:53 <dTx> anybody know why calendar app is not clickable
Jul 18 06:02:07 <cjb> dTx: is here
Jul 18 06:02:22 <cjb> (upgraded, though)
Jul 18 06:02:46 <thewtex> nice that it comes with gnu screen
Jul 18 06:03:07 <dTx> I ran opkg update upgrade
Jul 18 06:03:12 <dTx> but still greyed out
Jul 18 06:09:22 <cjb> I wonder how "dim first, then lock" works.  does it actually suspend automatically?
Jul 18 06:11:33 <kd8ikt> you have to manually enable gprs right??
Jul 18 06:11:44 <kd8ikt> lread	NY	Stanaphone
Jul 18 06:11:44 <kd8ikt> (516) 452-5842	NY	Stanaphone
Jul 18 06:11:44 <kd8ikt> (845) 839-8980	NYy
Jul 18 06:11:55 <kd8ikt> wtf is wrong with my keyboard
Jul 18 06:12:14 <kd8ikt> anyway i was saying ever call telephreak?
Jul 18 06:12:56 <kd8ikt> its an asterisk server that has conference
Jul 18 06:13:13 <kd8ikt> i'm still working on mine but my bandwidth sucks 
Jul 18 06:14:12 <cjb> wow, "untangle" is unbearably slow
Jul 18 06:14:18 <cjb> I think it was faster on gta01?
Jul 18 06:16:51 <kd8ikt> untangle?
Jul 18 06:17:25 <cjb> one of the game
Jul 18 06:17:26 <cjb> s
Jul 18 06:17:41 <kd8ikt> anything use the acceleromter?
Jul 18 06:18:47 <peepsalot> Marcel_M, how do you run the setenv commands?  from a regular console when the device has booted?
Jul 18 06:18:53 <peepsalot> console over usb?
Jul 18 06:20:16 <Marcel_M> i used minicom on /dev/ttyACM0
Jul 18 06:20:46 <vpv> neocon is nice too
Jul 18 06:21:10 <peepsalot> what is ttyACM0 ?
Jul 18 06:21:34 <peepsalot> i don't think i have that
Jul 18 06:22:36 <Marcel_M> just boot to nand connect per usb to your host and use a terminal app (minicom,cu, whatever) to /dev/ttyACM0
Jul 18 06:22:49 <Marcel_M> on the host
Jul 18 06:22:49 <mmontour> peepsalot: it should appear when the neo is in the u-boot menu (and it goes away when linux boots). If not check that you have the cdc_acm module on your host PC
Jul 18 06:23:02 <peepsalot> ah ok
Jul 18 06:23:50 <Marcel_M> peepsalot: and dont c&p 
Jul 18 06:24:11 <peepsalot> i'll make a note of this and try tomorrow.  i have to get to bed now
Jul 18 06:24:22 <Marcel_M> c&p never worked for me in the bootloader
Jul 18 06:24:30 <peepsalot> ok
Jul 18 06:24:33 <Marcel_M> gn8
Jul 18 06:24:35 <peepsalot> thanks all
Jul 18 06:24:43 <mmontour> it should work with neocon (lets you specify a per-character delay)
Jul 18 06:25:01 <Railer> one more question how do i transfer files to the phone over ssh?
Jul 18 06:25:11 <mmontour> scp
Jul 18 06:25:24 <tessier> Is there much difference yet between what the factory ships and what is current as far as quality of the software goes?
Jul 18 06:25:36 <tessier> I can't get my phone to do an opkg upgrade without crashing somehow.
Jul 18 06:25:40 <walrustown> wooohooo accelerometers work
Jul 18 06:25:44 <tessier> If there isn't much difference I'll just stop trying.
Jul 18 06:26:14 <mmontour> tessier: dropbear gets upgraded and that kills your ssh session (if you're doing it over ssh). "nohup opkg upgrade &" to get around that
Jul 18 06:26:43 <tessier> mmontour: Yes, I found that out the first time  tried. Now I do it on the terminal app on the console.
Jul 18 06:27:10 <tessier> I told it to dim but not lock and it insists on locking.
Jul 18 06:27:12 <tessier> Weird.
Jul 18 06:27:31 <tessier> After every reboot it always comes back up saying "3 missed call(s)"
Jul 18 06:28:03 <tessier> And the application menu is always showing on the PIM Suite apps after every reboot. Like that's the default view or something.
Jul 18 06:28:06 <kelvie> heh, my motorola Razr does that
Jul 18 06:28:10 <kelvie> it's damned annoying
Jul 18 06:29:01 <kelvie> Railer: if you have konqueror installed you can use that to transfer files if you want a gui using the fish:// protocol
Jul 18 06:30:51 <Railer> I just got the thing and having some issues, did ssh in but no internet, route add default gw just gives me "SIOCADDRT No such process" so I'm trying to get wlan going.
Jul 18 06:31:36 <thewtex> Railer: I'm in the same boat
Jul 18 06:31:46 <Railer> how do I get the fish thing going?
Jul 18 06:31:52 <ieatlint_> fucking att
Jul 18 06:32:52 <ieatlint_> att has a huge outage in their US backbone
Jul 18 06:33:37 <ieatlint_> as such, i can reach some hosts (eg, irc.freenode.net), and not others (eg, my irc bouncer)...
Jul 18 06:33:42 * ieatlint_ kicks ieatlint
Jul 18 06:36:16 <Railer> so and suggestion on the anything I said?
Jul 18 06:40:08 <kd8ikt> bouncers are lame
Jul 18 06:40:52 <ieatlint_> actually, when i'm moving around between 3 locations constantly, an irc bouncer is extremely convenient
Jul 18 06:42:53 <ernst> can someone say me what i can write for freerunner in /usr/share/navit/navit.xml 
Jul 18 06:42:55 <ernst> ?
Jul 18 06:43:09 <ernst> gpsd://localhost
Jul 18 06:43:26 <ernst> ?
Jul 18 06:46:13 <ieatlint_> let's have a competition for who can get the highest gforce with the accelerometer without breaking their phone
Jul 18 06:46:34 <SpeedEvil> It only gets to 8G
Jul 18 06:46:46 <SpeedEvil> you can get that by putting it down not very gently on a table
Jul 18 06:46:56 <SpeedEvil> Or dropping from 10mm or so.
Jul 18 06:47:34 <pvborza> SpeedEvil: the accel is set up to receive data in +/- 2G
Jul 18 06:47:46 <pvborza> although it can support till 8G
Jul 18 06:47:56 <ieatlint_> i've seen it spike to 4g
Jul 18 06:48:02 <SpeedEvil> pvborza: I know
Jul 18 06:48:15 <pvborza> ieatlint_: yes, it will go above the limits
Jul 18 06:53:30 <tessier> Does opkg keep track of what it has upgraded and what it hasn't like rpm or apt do?
Jul 18 06:53:40 <tessier> Because every time I run it it downloads a bunch more stuff.
Jul 18 06:54:23 <ernst> does navit run on Freerunner ?
Jul 18 06:54:36 <tessier> Now it's doing update-alternatives...
Jul 18 06:55:28 <ernst> i can't active the device on navit
Jul 18 06:55:57 <doc|home> grrr, can't decide which image. Can someone update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions with battery life info?
Jul 18 07:01:56 <tessier> Aaaaand...it's dead.
Jul 18 07:02:10 <Railer> is their a command line editor on FR?
Jul 18 07:02:11 <tessier> I did an opkg upgrade, it ran for a while, next thing I know the screen is black and the phone is totally non-responsive.
Jul 18 07:02:29 <tessier> I will boot it up again and it will be exactly where it was before having accomplished nothing in the upgrade. Bah.
Jul 18 07:02:52 <thewtex> Railer: vi
Jul 18 07:03:34 <Railer> thanks
Jul 18 07:03:43 <tessier> vi...on the matchbox keyboard...joy :)
Jul 18 07:03:47 <ernst> Freerunner und NAvit ?
Jul 18 07:03:52 <ernst> waht device does it need 
Jul 18 07:04:03 <ernst> does anyone run navit on freerunner ?
Jul 18 07:07:13 <doc|home> for using asu, do I need to do anything with u-boot?
Jul 18 07:08:12 <mmontour> no
Jul 18 07:08:58 <doc|home> mmontour: thanks
Jul 18 07:10:00 <doc|home> snow crash looks interesting
Jul 18 07:11:05 <doc|home> but why would any properly anarchist society use fiat currencies which would allow hyperinflation
Jul 18 07:11:33 <doc|home> er, wrong channel
Jul 18 07:12:08 <ieatlint> lol
Jul 18 07:13:07 <doc|home> :/
Jul 18 07:13:25 <Railer> iface eth0 inet dhcp - to start up wifi but get iface not found, any suggestions?
Jul 18 07:14:19 <mmontour> is the wifi powered on? 
Jul 18 07:14:59 <Railer> yes
Jul 18 07:16:01 <mmontour> then I don't know.
Jul 18 07:16:04 <Sargun> Anybody want to trade a FreeRunner for an OLPC?
Jul 18 07:16:10 <Sargun> an XO-1
Jul 18 07:18:38 <ieatlint> good luck with that
Jul 18 07:18:42 <doc|home> Sargun: want to buy a bridge?
Jul 18 07:18:48 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jul 18 07:18:49 <Sargun> bridge?
Jul 18 07:18:52 * ieatlint strokes his eee and freerunner
Jul 18 07:19:11 <ieatlint> if only i had a third hand..
Jul 18 07:19:14 <Railer> anyone else have a bugger of a time getting it to staRT after a shutdown?
Jul 18 07:19:27 <ieatlint> Railer, just keep holding the powe button
Jul 18 07:19:50 <Railer> it has to be plugged in in order to start up
Jul 18 07:20:07 <ieatlint> not true for me
Jul 18 07:20:24 <rivalarrival> nope. Takes about 5 seconds to start up
Jul 18 07:20:46 <Railer> maybe after a full over night charge
Jul 18 07:21:44 <doc|home> Railer: liking it? :)
Jul 18 07:21:50 <rivalarrival> I haven't experienced what you're talking about. Even with a half-charge, it fires up after 5 seconds.
Jul 18 07:21:57 <Railer> no not really
Jul 18 07:22:08 <doc|home> mine's a pain because you have to press and hold it, but eventually I'm hoping we'll have a phone which requires less reboots :)
Jul 18 07:22:22 <doc|home> Railer: yeah, software still kinda sucks, that was to be expected though :/
Jul 18 07:22:36 <Railer> I cant even get on to the net
Jul 18 07:23:17 <ieatlint> nice, i found an infinite loop in /sys
Jul 18 07:23:37 <Railer> I've tried about 20 things on the wiki to no avail, but I canat least ssh in, so that's something
Jul 18 07:23:39 <doc|home> Railer: tried a different image?
Jul 18 07:24:00 <Railer> not yet
Jul 18 07:24:03 <ieatlint> /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-vibrator.0/leds/neo1973\:v
Jul 18 07:24:03 <ieatlint> ibrator/device/leds/neo1973\:vibrator/device/leds/neo1973\:vibrator/device/leds/
Jul 18 07:24:03 <ieatlint> neo1973\:vibrator/device/leds/neo1973\:vibrator/device/leds/neo1973\:vibrator/de
Jul 18 07:24:03 <ieatlint> vice/leds/neo1973\:vibrator/ and so forth
Jul 18 07:24:17 <rivalarrival> The wiki needs a LOT of work... It really sucks...
Jul 18 07:24:29 <rivalarrival> Railer: What OS are you using?
Jul 18 07:24:39 <rivalarrival> on your computer, I mean.
Jul 18 07:24:49 <Railer> ubuntu
Jul 18 07:25:39 <rivalarrival> you got the OM connected now?
Jul 18 07:26:06 <Railer> yes, 
Jul 18 07:26:27 <rivalarrival> Does ifconfig show a USB network device?
Jul 18 07:26:34 <Railer> yes
Jul 18 07:26:50 <Railer> one sec though, I accidently lock the damn thing
Jul 18 07:27:15 <Railer> actually my ssh is fine
Jul 18 07:27:31 <Railer> i have a lo and usb0
Jul 18 07:28:20 <rivalarrival> Oh, I misread your comment - I thought you said you couldn't ssh.
Jul 18 07:28:37 <Railer> no ssh is good
Jul 18 07:28:45 <rivalarrival> You can get on the net with your ubuntu machine?
Jul 18 07:30:34 <Railer> yes it's a server
Jul 18 07:30:47 <Railer> it's always on the net
Jul 18 07:30:58 <rivalarrival> Are you using the 192.168.0.x net on your local network?
Jul 18 07:32:27 <Railer> see it's a server so the ubuntu machine is direct to the net 95.67.34.123 sort of thiing no router
Jul 18 07:32:56 <Railer> does the unlock work the little moko icon wont move
Jul 18 07:34:07 <Railer> is there a command to unlock the phone in ssh?
Jul 18 07:34:18 <ieatlint> okay, the vibrator is /sys/class/leds/neo1973\:vibrator/brightness and takes values of 0(off) to 255 (max) with everything inbetween
Jul 18 07:35:39 <rivalarrival> Railer: I think you might want to get a different image on there...  I had more than a few problems with the stock image.
Jul 18 07:37:15 <Railer> how?
Jul 18 07:37:24 <Railer> boot form the minicard?
Jul 18 07:38:28 <walrustown> ieatlint: I am having way too much fun turning leds and vibrators on and off
Jul 18 07:38:46 <rivalarrival> I haven't figured that out how to boot from the card yet... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner
Jul 18 07:39:05 <rivalarrival> try the qtopia image... let me see if I can find it.
Jul 18 07:39:46 <doc|home> does asu not have a keyboard for sms messages?
Jul 18 07:40:00 <ieatlint> walrustown, hehe
Jul 18 07:40:06 <ecraven> can i just connect my FR to an usb hub and plug in a keyboard?
Jul 18 07:40:25 <ieatlint> you could in theory create "profiles" for audio files, so that the FR will vibrator with the music
Jul 18 07:40:28 <leinirAWAY> doc|home: Of course it does :) It's just a bit dodgy on figuring out when it should show that keyboard ;)
Jul 18 07:40:38 <doc|home> hahaha :(
Jul 18 07:40:40 <rivalarrival> ecraven: So you can use the keyboard on the FR? No.
Jul 18 07:40:55 <ecraven> rivalarrival: no to "just" or generally no?
Jul 18 07:40:56 <doc|home> ok, looks like my freerunner will spend another day at home
Jul 18 07:41:06 <ieatlint> rivalarrival, you sure about that?
Jul 18 07:41:10 <rivalarrival> ecraven: Well, probably to "just"...
Jul 18 07:41:30 <ieatlint> with the usb in host mode, you can connect a keyboard... and the UI would probably take it
Jul 18 07:41:37 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: 100% sure? no.
Jul 18 07:41:49 <ieatlint> hell, you should be able to turn the cursor on and plug a mouse in
Jul 18 07:42:48 <rivalarrival> Railer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images#Qtopia_image_from_qtopia.net
Jul 18 07:42:52 <ecraven> ieatlint: how do i put the usb into host mode?
Jul 18 07:43:05 <rivalarrival> Can't be done. :)
Jul 18 07:43:15 <ieatlint> yeah, it can
Jul 18 07:43:25 <rivalarrival> Uh huh, prove it. ;-)
Jul 18 07:43:54 <ieatlint> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware
Jul 18 07:44:05 <ieatlint> "USB - Client and Host mode switch-able (to be used for software downloading), provide host 5V power "
Jul 18 07:44:42 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: Yeah, but the wiki says a LOT of things. 
Jul 18 07:44:49 <ieatlint> heh
Jul 18 07:45:05 <rivalarrival> (I know it can go into host mode, but I've yet to see how to accomplish this feat)
Jul 18 07:45:22 <ieatlint> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_USB_host
Jul 18 07:45:43 <ieatlint> i got that by searching "usb host" ... the wiki is in disarray, but it's still very useful
Jul 18 07:46:13 <rivalarrival> Yeah, what do you think of adding the Neo_FreeRunner_USB_host page?
Jul 18 07:46:32 <ieatlint> i think it makes no sense to
Jul 18 07:46:45 <ieatlint> i think it makes sense to rename that page to be inspecific to the 1973 and the FR
Jul 18 07:46:46 <ecraven> hm.. do i actually need that three-headed cable if i connect the neo to a powered usb hub?
Jul 18 07:47:04 <ieatlint> no, you shouldn't
Jul 18 07:47:07 <rivalarrival> ecraven: Some hubs won't recognize a host that doesn't provide 5v
Jul 18 07:47:18 <ieatlint> yeah, but the FR can provide 5v
Jul 18 07:47:29 <rivalarrival> fair enough.
Jul 18 07:47:54 <ecraven> will the FR charge itself in host mode?
Jul 18 07:48:34 <rivalarrival> So, it seems to me that one could use a Neo as host to flash another Neo.
Jul 18 07:48:35 <BlackFog> morning
Jul 18 07:48:44 <ieatlint> i dunno, i haven't heard anyone really talk about using usb host mode yet
Jul 18 07:48:55 <HauDyrArb> morning
Jul 18 07:48:56 <rivalarrival> ecraven: Powered hubes don't power the host device.
Jul 18 07:49:03 <Railer> when flashing u-boot and set console to usb?
Jul 18 07:49:10 <ieatlint> yeah, but one could modify it all to do that
Jul 18 07:49:38 <ieatlint> anyway, the FR supports it
Jul 18 07:49:43 <rivalarrival> Railer: just go to uboot. No need to set the console.
Jul 18 07:49:53 <ieatlint> just don't send voltage over 5v to the freerunner
Jul 18 07:50:17 <Railer> ok
Jul 18 07:50:55 <Railer> is their any to quick reboot?
Jul 18 07:51:13 <rivalarrival> pop the battery out?
Jul 18 07:51:43 <rivalarrival> probably not the recommended option, but it's quick. :)
Jul 18 07:51:54 <Railer> other then that :)
Jul 18 07:52:12 <ieatlint> find a way to send sysrq commands :P
Jul 18 07:52:52 <ecraven> rivalarrival: hm.. then we'd always need a Y-cable to charge the FR in host mode?
Jul 18 07:53:18 <rivalarrival> ecraven: Or, a specially designed hub.
Jul 18 07:53:43 <ieatlint> yeah, modifying a hub is the best choice
Jul 18 07:53:49 <ieatlint> add in a li-ion battery
Jul 18 07:54:02 <ieatlint> so that the hub doesn't kill the FR when there is no wall outlet
Jul 18 07:54:20 <rivalarrival> I hate Li-ions.
Jul 18 07:54:40 <ieatlint> well, they're great at what they do
Jul 18 07:54:51 <ecraven> hehe, first accessory: moko hub
Jul 18 07:54:56 <rivalarrival> Yeah. Dying every 24 months. Like clockwork.
Jul 18 07:55:23 <ieatlint> heh
Jul 18 07:55:28 <rivalarrival> ecraven: that would make a good one...  I wonder who we can get to make it.
Jul 18 07:55:44 <ieatlint> not in my experience, but even then... for the convenience, if i have to replace a $20 battery every two years
Jul 18 07:55:48 <ieatlint> yeah... i can accept that
Jul 18 07:56:15 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: Yeah, for a phone it's not too bad. For a laptop, it gets a bit more expensive.
Jul 18 07:57:14 <ecraven> hm.. we need a bluetooth datahand for the neo
Jul 18 07:57:30 <rivalarrival> a what now?
Jul 18 07:57:33 <Railer> well here goes the flash wish me luck!
Jul 18 07:57:50 <ecraven> www.datahand.com
Jul 18 07:57:50 <rivalarrival> Railer: Good luck!  Fortunately, it's almost impossible to brick these things.
Jul 18 07:58:05 <ieatlint> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=726 and http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8484 and then you need a 5v step-up
Jul 18 08:00:12 <rivalarrival> so, datahand is a keyboard of some sort?  page says it's discontinued.
Jul 18 08:00:47 <ecraven> yes, a strange, one-handed keyboard ;)
Jul 18 08:01:04 <ieatlint> a one handed keyboard... you'd think that'd be insanely popular
Jul 18 08:01:09 <ecraven> oh, that's unfortunate.. 
Jul 18 08:01:29 <Railer> wow done that was quick\
Jul 18 08:01:29 <ecraven> ieatlint: there are many ;) the BAT keyboard, the cykey, etc.
Jul 18 08:01:46 <ieatlint> you've done your research there, it seems :P
Jul 18 08:01:52 <rivalarrival> Railer: You have to do the rootfs too.
Jul 18 08:01:58 <ecraven> aye, i want one hand on the keyboard, one on the mouse ;)
Jul 18 08:02:00 <rivalarrival> Railer: That takes a few minutes
Jul 18 08:02:10 <Railer> really
Jul 18 08:02:24 <ieatlint> mouse is a rather small term
Jul 18 08:02:54 <rivalarrival> Railer: Well, it took me about 3-4 minutes... Results will vary. :-)
Jul 18 08:03:23 <Railer> ok
Jul 18 08:06:16 <ernst> I want to fix navit on Freerunner
Jul 18 08:06:23 <rivalarrival> Good!
Jul 18 08:06:23 <ernst> can anyone help me ?
Jul 18 08:06:37 <ernst> i want opost the report here
Jul 18 08:06:50 <ernst> i start cat /dev/ttySAC1
Jul 18 08:07:15 <ieatlint> and does nothing happen?
Jul 18 08:07:16 <ernst> output after 30 -60 sec.  $GPRMC,080338.00,A,5222.63622,N,00837.03213,E,0.018,,180708,,,A*74
Jul 18 08:07:16 <ernst> <ernst> $GPVTG,,T,,M,0.018,N,0.033,K,A*2A
Jul 18 08:07:16 <ernst> <ernst> $GPGGA,080338.00,5222.63622,N,00837.0
Jul 18 08:07:27 <Railer> well rootfs is going
Jul 18 08:07:30 <ieatlint> well, now we know where you are
Jul 18 08:07:37 <ernst> if i start navit
Jul 18 08:07:42 <ernst> cat/dev/ttySAC1
Jul 18 08:07:52 <ernst> output F�
!���ĆŅ���ƅ���ť�Ƥ���Ť�Ĥń�@�
!���ĆŅ���ń�Ņą�ƥ�Ʀť$ "�������奥�Ä�夅����ą儆�����%b$  �����F���f���f�@�
!�Ą��Ĥ����f�ĥ������奆��¤�FƧ@�
!��Ť��ņŤ�����兦���ƇF�
!���ĆŅ���ƅ���ť�Ƥ���Ť�Ĥń�@�
!�ï
Jul 18 08:07:57 <ernst> close navit
Jul 18 08:08:00 <Railer> pretty
Jul 18 08:08:00 <rivalarrival> Railer: Good.  Qtopia is a bit more mature right now...  Probably won't stay that way for long.
Jul 18 08:08:01 <ernst> start tango gps
Jul 18 08:08:11 <ernst> output  $GPRMC,080338.00,A,5222.63622,N,00837.03213,E,0.018,,180708,,,A*74
Jul 18 08:08:12 <ernst> <ernst> $GPVTG,,T,,M,0.018,N,0.033,K,A*2A
Jul 18 08:08:12 <ernst> <ernst> $GPGGA,080338.00,5222.636
Jul 18 08:08:19 <ieatlint> yeah, that'd be binary output
Jul 18 08:08:25 <ernst> whats happen with that ?
Jul 18 08:08:37 <ieatlint> it outputs your location in a binary format
Jul 18 08:09:06 <ernst> why does navit change the "cat /dev/ttySAC1" output ?
Jul 18 08:09:21 <Railer> was i suppost to flash qtopia? i flashed http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ these guys
Jul 18 08:10:35 <ieatlint> presumably it reads the data in binary? i dunno... this would be specific to navit and not the freerunner
Jul 18 08:11:40 <rivalarrival> Railer: Well, try out what you got...  I'm going back to qtopia, at least until my replacement phone comes. 
Jul 18 08:12:09 <Railer> where are the qtopia files? and why them?
Jul 18 08:13:43 <rivalarrival> qtopia's SMS actually works... I need a working SMS, at least until my replacement phone arrives and it's not essential that my freerunner works.
Jul 18 08:14:05 <rivalarrival> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images#Qtopia_image_from_qtopia.net
Jul 18 08:14:38 <rivalarrival> The first of the qtopia links has both the binary image and the rootfs
Jul 18 08:14:50 <Railer> why do you need a replacement phone?\
Jul 18 08:15:10 <rivalarrival> Lost my last phone the day after I orderded my FR...
Jul 18 08:15:35 <Railer> that's what you told the wife anyhow right?
Jul 18 08:15:57 <rivalarrival> Heh, Nah, I left it on top of the car and drove away.
Jul 18 08:16:37 <rivalarrival> But, I got a $200 phone from t-mobile for $18... It was actually cheaper to get the new phone and new sim card than a replacement sim card.
Jul 18 08:16:49 <Railer> ya
Jul 18 08:17:11 <Railer> I got a guy on the inside here in town to help me out
Jul 18 08:17:25 <ieatlint> until you paid taxes on $200 and an upgrade fee
Jul 18 08:18:00 <Railer> brb laptop bry dieing
Jul 18 08:18:55 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: Nah, the $18 is the upgrade fee, and the taxes were on the $18, not $200.
Jul 18 08:19:25 <rivalarrival> I would have paid $25+tax for a replacement sim alone.
Jul 18 08:19:27 <ieatlint> well, i guess just california gets its ass kicked
Jul 18 08:19:49 <Railer> back
Jul 18 08:19:57 <rivalarrival> Cool
Jul 18 08:20:10 <Railer> switched to the server
Jul 18 08:20:31 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: T-mobile screwed you?
Jul 18 08:20:33 <Railer> both done time to reboot
Jul 18 08:20:36 <ieatlint> no
Jul 18 08:21:06 <ieatlint> CA tax law says that if a discount is offered on certain products, we still pay tax on the original price
Jul 18 08:21:22 <ieatlint> so if tmobile gives us a $200 phone for free, we still pay tax on $200
Jul 18 08:21:25 <Railer> thats stupid
Jul 18 08:21:38 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: Uh, not if it's ordered out-of-state...
Jul 18 08:22:08 <ieatlint> tmobile has a presence in CA, and if you conduct a transaction in CA with a company that has a presence in CA, you pay the tax
Jul 18 08:22:53 <ieatlint> we have low property taxes though
Jul 18 08:22:54 <rivalarrival> Damn, CA is gay.
Jul 18 08:23:12 <ieatlint> the feds overtax us :(
Jul 18 08:24:13 <Railer> does seem more stable
Jul 18 08:25:02 <rivalarrival> Railer: Good. You'll probably have to do that a few more times in the not-so-distant future.
Jul 18 08:25:12 <rivalarrival> lotsa stuff coming down the pipeline.
Jul 18 08:26:38 <rivalarrival> ieatlint: Well, you only have to worry about breaking off the continent to go hang with Hawaii.  Alaska can come too.
Jul 18 08:27:17 <ieatlint> hehe
Jul 18 08:27:42 <ieatlint> screw alaska and socal... oregon and washington can come
Jul 18 08:28:23 <rivalarrival> http://www.endofworld.net/endofworld.swf
Jul 18 08:29:24 <rivalarrival> But I am le tired
Jul 18 08:29:32 <rivalarrival> WTF mate?
Jul 18 08:29:39 <rivalarrival> AHHH MOTHERLAND!!!!
Jul 18 08:30:11 <ieatlint> yeah, i've seen it
Jul 18 08:33:01 <leinirAWAY> About that time, eh chaps?
Jul 18 08:33:25 <rivalarrival> Right-o
Jul 18 08:34:13 <Railer> well flash but still no internet
Jul 18 08:35:30 <Railer> how do I know which gateway it sould be going to?
Jul 18 08:39:43 <Railer> well night
Jul 18 08:39:47 <Railer> bbl
Jul 18 08:43:47 * Sebastian just put a 4GB microSD into his Freerunner.
Jul 18 08:43:59 <Sebastian> Much more space now for maps :)
Jul 18 08:45:22 <Rakshasa> planet.osm...
Jul 18 08:45:22 <ecraven> but no GPS ;(
Jul 18 08:45:35 <ecraven> is there a route planner for the freerunner? yet?
Jul 18 08:46:45 <walrustown> Sebastian: what GPS program are you using?
Jul 18 08:52:24 <newb> hi i'm getting this error on opkg update
Jul 18 08:52:51 <newb> Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig, error 404
Jul 18 08:52:51 <newb>  * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.sig, error 404
Jul 18 08:52:51 <newb>  * Failed to download http://downloads.openmoko.org/community-repository/Packages.sig, error 404
Jul 18 08:52:51 <newb>  * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973/Packages.sig, error 404
Jul 18 08:52:51 <newb>  * Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/Packages.sig, error 404
Jul 18 08:52:55 <newb> why/
Jul 18 08:53:15 <newb> my USB n/w is set up perfectly. i'm able to ping Google from the Neo
Jul 18 08:53:34 <ieatlint> go look at the wiki
Jul 18 08:53:40 <ieatlint> the getting started guide
Jul 18 08:59:02 <ixs> quick question: I haven't followed OM development lately. Which is the suggested image for the GTA01?
Jul 18 08:59:37 <ieatlint> ixs, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images
Jul 18 08:59:45 <ieatlint> there's no specific one recommened
Jul 18 09:00:43 <ixs> ieatlint: reading the SHR wiki page seems to suggest the ASU image...
Jul 18 09:01:04 <ieatlint> asu is the most unstable, but "feature full"
Jul 18 09:01:33 <ixs> ahh fine.
Jul 18 09:01:37 <newb> ieatlint: any clue about why i get those errors?
Jul 18 09:01:39 <ieatlint> 2007.2 is relatively stable, and has full gtk/x support.... qtopia doesn't really allow for expansion, but supports sms/telephony very well
Jul 18 09:01:51 <ieatlint> newb, as i said, review the getting started guide
Jul 18 09:02:01 <newb> oh that was for me?
Jul 18 09:02:02 <newb> ok
Jul 18 09:02:04 <ixs> "2007.2 is the "old" Openmoko distribution, now unsupported. Unsupported == often broken. Also, neither calls nor suspend/resume ever worked reliably.
Jul 18 09:02:07 <ixs> "
Jul 18 09:02:15 <ixs> that's written on the SHR page, which I find a bit strange... ;D
Jul 18 09:02:27 <leinir> ixs: It's true, however :)
Jul 18 09:02:37 <ieatlint> phone calls work :P
Jul 18 09:02:40 <ieatlint> suspend works
Jul 18 09:02:44 <leinir> Hmm... Bar the telephony stuff and suspend :)
Jul 18 09:02:45 <ieatlint> resume ... hehe, not so much
Jul 18 09:02:51 <ixs> leinir: crap. And I really hoped things changed when I last looked at OM, which was about half a year ago...
Jul 18 09:03:14 <ixs> leinir: but HEY!!! so it _CAN_ _ACTUALLY_ _MAKE_ _A_ _PHONE_ _CALL_? REJOICE! :-D
Jul 18 09:03:26 <lpotter> qtopia does allow for 'expansion'
Jul 18 09:03:27 <ieatlint> ixs, check out qtopia :P
Jul 18 09:03:29 <leinir> ixs: Well, the future is not there yet... The future is basically FSO teamed up with raster :)
Jul 18 09:03:52 <ieatlint> yeah, qtopia does... but since it doesn't have x, you're basically limited to things specifically made for it
Jul 18 09:03:53 <ixs> leinir: to be truthfull though, I already made calls with the 2007.2 stack... it was just a major hassle and needed powercycling after each call. :/
Jul 18 09:04:13 <ieatlint> yeah, 2007.2 will reliably make phone calls
Jul 18 09:04:25 <ieatlint> and i've only had people tell me they tried to call me and got VM with asu
Jul 18 09:04:28 <lpotter> ieatlint: you are limited with the other gui'as well
Jul 18 09:04:37 <ieatlint> lpotter, not nearly as much
Jul 18 09:04:48 <newb> ieatlint: ahh i see it
Jul 18 09:04:51 <ieatlint> a program that works on the asu works on 2007.2, and in general gtk dev is simpler
Jul 18 09:04:57 <ixs> ieatlint: only VM? Thanks, I already have that fun with ekiga, twinkle and cisco call manager. :D no need for the problem on the phone. :D
Jul 18 09:05:04 <newb> i'm using qtopia and i think its the most usable ui on the neo
Jul 18 09:05:10 <lpotter> ieatlint: qtopia is not limiting in any manner more than x11 is
Jul 18 09:05:35 <ieatlint> lpotter, correct, but the development tools and existing applications are centred around x
Jul 18 09:05:55 <lpotter> no, trolltech reelases an sdk specific for the neo
Jul 18 09:05:56 <ieatlint> i'm not an anti-qt person, mind you, but simply reporting things as i see it
Jul 18 09:06:03 <ieatlint> there is no browser, there is no gps app
Jul 18 09:06:10 <lpotter> soon
Jul 18 09:06:18 <mjr> lpotter with his old trivially incorrect trolling
Jul 18 09:06:18 <ieatlint> yeah, i hear 4.4 has a browser
Jul 18 09:06:36 <lpotter> mjr: not incorrect
Jul 18 09:06:47 <ixs> lpotter: If you're refering to the initial code release from trolltech, I wouldn't exactly call that SDK...
Jul 18 09:07:06 <lpotter> no, there is a vmware sdk that we have put many hours into developing
Jul 18 09:07:30 <lpotter> probbly the best sdk out there for neo
Jul 18 09:07:32 <ieatlint> well, i like qtopia, and i regard it as by far the most usable/reliable image ...
Jul 18 09:07:34 <ixs> lpotter: ahh okay. my apologies in that case, I haven't looked at OM and related stuff for about half a year.
Jul 18 09:07:49 <mjr> lpotter, I know you believe your bullshit
Jul 18 09:07:53 <ieatlint> but i use 2007.2 because i want gtk apps, and i see fso/shr as the "future"
Jul 18 09:08:07 <mjr> it'd just be nice that qtopia people weren't so detached from reality
Jul 18 09:08:20 <mjr> credibility and all
Jul 18 09:08:27 <ixs> I only worked with the initial release and that was more a dump of soem unorganized code which had problems even compiling and nothing like an "SDK".
Jul 18 09:08:47 <ieatlint> well, cross-compiling will always have problems
Jul 18 09:08:48 <bobkare> lpotter: Yeah, ok, so for those that want to do app development from scratch it may be OK, but please observe the amount of mobile apps already available written in GTK
Jul 18 09:08:56 <ieatlint> i'm banging my head on the table over it still
Jul 18 09:09:40 <lpotter> what amount? I see that qtopia has more apps in itself than what is available for others
Jul 18 09:10:16 <Ko_deZ> bobkare: with the speed of the x11 on the freerunner, you would probably save time porting it to qtopia and running it there instead =)
Jul 18 09:10:17 <lpotter> bobkare: as well, qt apps can easily be ported
Jul 18 09:10:20 <ixs> ieatlint: nah. cross-compiling is not really an art. Especially nowadays with ready made compiler suites. I remember in '98 or so when I first had to crosscompile a complete userspace and kernel for the hp9000 risc architecture. That was a hassle and took days. Today? one or two commands and everything is done by makefile magic.
Jul 18 09:10:34 <bobkare> lpotter: go find somebody with a nokia n810 before trying that one
Jul 18 09:10:41 <lpotter> easy as pie using teh neo sdk
Jul 18 09:11:04 <lpotter> bobkare: we do have nokia devices
Jul 18 09:11:10 <ieatlint> ixs, yeah, you say that, but i've been hacking makefiles that neglect to use the variables to define gcc, and all sorts of other stuff
Jul 18 09:11:46 <ieatlint> my favourite are the ones that fail when they compile something, and decide to test the program by running it... which of course fails
Jul 18 09:12:29 <ixs> ieatlint: ;-) true. Seen a fair share of problems as well, but it's gotten better in general.
Jul 18 09:12:29 <bobkare> lpotter: ohwell, good luck to you then, personally I don't really like qt after finding it a hassle to develop for it, I'll be eagerly awaiting SHR which will be much less of a lock-in.
Jul 18 09:12:52 <lpotter> ermm how is gpl code a lock in? heh thats a good one
Jul 18 09:13:08 <zedstar_> ieatlint: yeh u gotta love those autoconf builds that try and run a built c program cross compiling!
Jul 18 09:13:24 <leinir> lpotter: It is all politics - you are forced to be GPL, and people want gratis in stead ;)
Jul 18 09:13:48 <bobkare> lpotter: in the way that you have ripped out X11 which makes me unable to run every other graphical toolset in existance
Jul 18 09:13:54 <ieatlint> right now i'm dealing with dbus which is trying to link to an incompatible expat library
Jul 18 09:14:09 <lpotter> bobkare: havet ripped out x11
Jul 18 09:14:15 <lpotter> dont need no stinkin x
Jul 18 09:14:22 <XorA> ripped out x11?
Jul 18 09:14:22 <leinir> (what the LGPL allows you to do - shaft the developers of the libraries you're building your software on, so that you can make money out of their work without giving anything back to them)
Jul 18 09:14:35 <XorA> ASU seems to be running qtopia on X11
Jul 18 09:14:42 * XorA must be imagining things
Jul 18 09:14:58 <lpotter> XorA: qtopia on x1 1is experimental at best
Jul 18 09:15:16 <XorA> lpotter: yeah, but doesnt really fit with "ripped out"
Jul 18 09:15:22 <bobkare> XorA: yeah, and at least the last time i tried asu was so slow i just reflashed into 2007.02 pretty much right away
Jul 18 09:15:28 <lpotter> i am not the one that 
Jul 18 09:15:51 <XorA> s/ripped out/not really supported/
Jul 18 09:15:52 <apt> XorA meant: lpotter: yeah, but doesnt really fit with "not really supported"
Jul 18 09:15:56 <mjr> bobkare, FWIW, lpotter has a block in his mind about qtopia being in _any_ conceivable way more limiting than x11. A sad delusion really.
Jul 18 09:16:05 <XorA> shutup apt you are wrong
Jul 18 09:16:26 * XorA has even run X11 on qtopia in the past
Jul 18 09:16:27 <bobkare> mjr: Yeah, i'm getting the picture...
Jul 18 09:16:28 <ieatlint> careful now, apt has a temper
Jul 18 09:17:44 <lpotter> i am sorry but having multiple toolkits that dont offer a common lok and feel is not an advantage on a phone
Jul 18 09:17:45 * mjr does wonder if the whole qtopia dev team is such indoctrinated or if there are sane people there too. To be fair, probably the latter.
Jul 18 09:18:10 <bobkare> a bit sad really because it makes people that respond that way seem like fanboys instead of the good advocates they could be
Jul 18 09:18:15 <lpotter> mjr: no, we all feel X is overkill and not neccesary
Jul 18 09:18:41 <ixs> hey guys... shuddup already. This is getting worse than a distro flamewar.
Jul 18 09:18:48 <mjr> lpotter, those opinions can be justified to an extent. You go further.
Jul 18 09:18:49 <XorA> heh heh
Jul 18 09:19:08 <XorA> Im afraid I have to agree on the X think, directfb/qtopia/....... make more sense on limited hardware
Jul 18 09:19:12 <ixs> XorA: actually, the more I think about it, it's exactly that. bummer! :D
Jul 18 09:19:47 <bobkare> lpotter: well then, don't take this personal or anything, but good luck to you, you're clearly going somewhere else with this than me. have fun on the journey and all that.
Jul 18 09:20:00 <lpotter> well, you guys keep dissin' on Qtopia, yet it the best software for the neo
Jul 18 09:20:14 <ieatlint> some things can only be settled with a knife fight
Jul 18 09:20:19 <ieatlint> how far away are you guys?
Jul 18 09:20:21 <zedstar_> lol
Jul 18 09:20:28 * bobkare ain't saying
Jul 18 09:20:31 <XorA> chainsaws at dawn
Jul 18 09:20:49 <zedstar_> can't we all just learn to love each other :)
Jul 18 09:21:02 <ieatlint> maybe after the fight
Jul 18 09:21:05 <XorA> we shall see what qtopia can do when the new N** series phone comes out :-D
Jul 18 09:21:10 <mjr> lpotter, wouldn't need to be dissing it if you weren't making it out to be Jesus
Jul 18 09:21:27 * XorA starts singing Depeche Mode
Jul 18 09:21:30 * leinir hugs lpotter "But we wuvs qtopia lots!" :)
Jul 18 09:21:39 <leinir> Also, this is a really great track :)
Jul 18 09:22:24 <leinir> (just listened to My Definition of a Boombastic Jazz Style by Dream Warriors ;) )
Jul 18 09:22:26 * XorA is amused by the fact people love iPhone, and iPhone looks like it stole everything from qtopia
Jul 18 09:22:37 <mjr> lpotter, spesifically, you _could_ admit that it's in some ways more limited than X11, _even if you think those ways are irrelevant_
Jul 18 09:23:07 <lpotter> there is only one way it is more limited, and that is really irrelevant on a phone
Jul 18 09:23:13 <bobkare> Ohwell, I'm off. have fun everybody
Jul 18 09:23:30 <mjr> lpotter, ooh, that already is _quite_ a bit more of a concession than you've managed before
Jul 18 09:23:40 <mjr> maybe you're not hopeless
Jul 18 09:24:01 <zedstar_> out of curiousity if the trolltech people hate the idea of X how does someone from openmoko work on something like getting qtopia working over X.... i mean i cant see them getting too much support?
Jul 18 09:24:26 <lpotter> zedstar_: it wasnt openmoko that got qtopia runnign on x
Jul 18 09:24:41 <Ko_deZ> So, there are more easily ported apps for x11 than qtopia, that is for certain, as there are of course more apps for qt and gtk and others together, than just the ones for qt. There is no doubt though, that the x11 builds today feel very sluggish (like the first smartphones), while qtopia without x11 feels very responsive. Anyone saying the opposite can not have tested both. On a phone, I do not care so much about if I am able to run all
Jul 18 09:24:41 <Ko_deZ> odd apps as I want my dialing buttons to appear the instance I press the button for it, and not a few seconds later.
Jul 18 09:24:43 <zedstar_> lpotter who did?
Jul 18 09:25:05 <lpotter> zedstar_: TROLLTECH
Jul 18 09:25:09 <lpotter> whops
Jul 18 09:25:19 <zedstar_> lpotter but u hate X? :)
Jul 18 09:25:39 <Ko_deZ> unless the x11 stuff gets more optimized, I cannot se myself using those images. And I am not and have never been an employee of trolltech or anything related to it, just for the record.
Jul 18 09:25:46 <mjr> Ko_deZ, probably more of a matter of having the dialer app running all the time
Jul 18 09:25:54 <lpotter> Ko_deZ: wrong. any Qt app can easily be 'ported' to qtopia, just as easy if not easier than any gtk app
Jul 18 09:26:08 <Ko_deZ> mjr: I don't care what the reason is =)
Jul 18 09:26:26 <lpotter> Ko_deZ: qtopia x11 is unsupported and undevleloped
Jul 18 09:26:34 <mjr> Ko_deZ, then you're not relevant to the conversation
Jul 18 09:26:39 <Ko_deZ> mjr: I just want it to be as quick as the qtopia.
Jul 18 09:27:23 <zedstar_> IMO i think the 2 stack competition is healthy.... trolltech vs the community.... the idea of all these zombiefied stacks is just a bit OTT
Jul 18 09:27:23 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: What I said was: With the x11 builds, you get all worlds, with the qtopia framebuffer build, you get only the qt stuff. Obviously the former have more options.
Jul 18 09:28:01 <lpotter> Ko_deZ: having multiple toolkits on a phone is irrelevent
Jul 18 09:28:31 <lpotter> people want a common loko and feel, you cannot get that by having more than one base toolkit
Jul 18 09:28:42 <lpotter> unless you do a lot of work
Jul 18 09:29:00 <lpotter> or use it as a wrapper around the base toolkit
Jul 18 09:29:04 <lpotter> or minic it
Jul 18 09:29:08 <mjr> common loco
Jul 18 09:29:09 <lpotter> mimic
Jul 18 09:29:09 <zedstar_> its gonna get messy
Jul 18 09:29:13 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: It is not if you want to run both konqueror embedden and the navit application (which is GTK). Some people do not really care about a common look and feel as much as being able to run the apps they need.
Jul 18 09:29:57 <Ko_deZ> while others, like me, want usability.
Jul 18 09:30:52 <Ko_deZ> People are different and want different things. That is not really something you can change.
Jul 18 09:32:22 <swc|666> debian armel ftw
Jul 18 09:32:49 <leinir> Hmm... So, the hardware fix is a capacitor :)
Jul 18 09:33:19 <leinir> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta02_gps_10pf_rework_sop.pdf <-- Not self-service, however
Jul 18 09:33:22 <Ko_deZ> Fact of the matter is though, if i where to give the FR to any of my friends with any x11 build on it, they would find it slow, while with the qtopia they are impressed. That is the current status I see. If FIC are to sell enough of these phones that we can ever get a GTA03, they need something that is as fast as the qtopia, but with more apps for GPS and such.
Jul 18 09:34:02 <mjr> Ko_deZ, sure. And the status is pretty much irrelevant.
Jul 18 09:34:32 <mjr> (not irrelevant in that it shouldn't be improved, but irrelevant in that it's at least mostly not an X11 issue)
Jul 18 09:34:47 <mjr> anyway, nice about the hw fix
Jul 18 09:34:50 <Tig|> leinir: has there been an official announcement on that?
Jul 18 09:34:56 <Ko_deZ> mjr: Not really. A big percentage of probable Freerunner buyers are friends of ours. If they are not impressed, they will not get one.
Jul 18 09:34:58 <mjr> Tig|, just was on the list
Jul 18 09:35:02 <leinir> Yup, arrived a few minutes ago on the list :)
Jul 18 09:35:19 <Tig|> ah I will have to wait for it to appear on the web archives then :)
Jul 18 09:35:34 <mjr> Ko_deZ, if they need to be impressed, they shouldn't buy it now anyway
Jul 18 09:35:56 <Tig|> I can't be dealing with subscribing to the mailing lists,  the signal to noise ratio is insane :)  
Jul 18 09:36:02 <mjr> that you can stick the capacitor on the sd slot is nice
Jul 18 09:36:09 <Ainulindale> Tig|: try nabble
Jul 18 09:36:18 <Tig|> did they say if there would be some way for existing owners to get the fix?
Jul 18 09:36:35 <Tig|> Ainulindale: ta,  was using gmane
Jul 18 09:37:14 <mjr> Tig|, "Our sales discussing with our distributor about proper services model, but do not have consensus yet, I will keep update it."
Jul 18 09:37:25 <zedstar_> looks expensive
Jul 18 09:37:25 <Tig|> mjr: thanks :)
Jul 18 09:38:24 <methril> morning
Jul 18 09:39:49 <lpotter> Ko_deZ: there are two gps apps for qtopia, that just need to be compiled and bug fixed.
Jul 18 09:40:38 <zedstar_> lpotter: does qtopia uses gpsd or your own stuff?
Jul 18 09:43:56 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: Yes, i know there are things there, and that things are coming together now (which is why I am using qtopia by the way), but if I actually need to use the exact application "navit", that does not help me much, does it? Not that I need that exact app, but I guess you see the point.
Jul 18 09:45:38 <mjr> Ko_deZ, he doesn't, Qtopia always has the best apps ;)
Jul 18 09:45:57 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: I do understand your and trolltechs need to get as much as possible over on qtopia, but neglecting/refusing to see the world as it is, does not help the cause. The idea of an open phone is to have choices. Right now, qtopia is imo the best choice for me.
Jul 18 09:46:05 <lpotter> the two gps apps are 3rd party, and i hve not looked into them yet
Jul 18 09:46:36 <lpotter> qtopia 4.4 will have an simple example app that uses gpsd or NMEA data from the dev node
Jul 18 09:47:55 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: That still does not help me if what I need to have running is a specific gtk application =)
Jul 18 09:48:52 <Ko_deZ> luckily I don't =)
Jul 18 09:49:30 <lpotter> well, from the navit website there is a screenie with navit running on a zaurus with Qt
Jul 18 09:49:54 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: Come on. Don't you get my point?
Jul 18 09:50:59 <lpotter> just as gtk wont help you if you need to run a specific Qt app
Jul 18 09:51:19 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: I am not talking about the "navit" application explicitly, I am talking about any GTK only application. If anyone needs a GTK application to make use of their FR like they want, then they need GTK.
Jul 18 09:51:21 <bobobobo> http://tinyurl.com/ads912
Jul 18 09:53:04 <Ko_deZ> And in that way, the qtopia framebuffer build is limiting. There is no other way to see it. The qtopia-gtk-x11 version could probably run both types. You may even be able to run qt as well. It will be a slow experience, but it will probably work. With the qtopia only, you have less choices.
Jul 18 09:54:53 <Ko_deZ> lpotter: you are of course right in saying that qt apps does not run on gtk, but the fact that qtopia is as you say it "experimental" on x11, and not really supported, makes qtopia a less "open" choice than if it was running x11 like everything else on the FR at the moment.
Jul 18 09:55:42 <Ko_deZ> I do agree that x11 should be unnessesary on a device like this, but idealism is not always the right choice.
Jul 18 10:01:56 <newb> hey is there any browser i can use on the freerunner?
Jul 18 10:09:01 <newb> i want to know the dangers of flashing the Neo. 
Jul 18 10:11:05 <Ko_deZ> leinir: that fix for the sd slot, is it as good as removing the signal completely?
Jul 18 10:11:45 <ieatlint> newb, if you don't have a dboard, there is no danger at all
Jul 18 10:12:27 <leinir> Ko_deZ: No idea :)
Jul 18 10:13:00 <mjr> Ko_deZ, probably not, and they say it too
Jul 18 10:13:06 <Ko_deZ> leinir: =)
Jul 18 10:13:12 <mjr> "This fix could give almost same performance with SD card out of case."
Jul 18 10:13:23 <mjr> not quantified better
Jul 18 10:13:26 <Ko_deZ> mjr: Ah, right.
Jul 18 10:13:31 <ieatlint> does the current uImage include the fix?
Jul 18 10:13:46 <mjr> anyway, there will always be internal interference, so I consider that a "fix"
Jul 18 10:13:49 <Ko_deZ> almost the same is gooe enought with that fix for the clock getting turned off.
Jul 18 10:14:02 <mjr> *nod*
Jul 18 10:14:06 <Ko_deZ> s/gooe/good/
Jul 18 10:14:06 <apt> Ko_deZ meant: almost the same is good enought with that fix for the clock getting turned off.
Jul 18 10:14:28 <Ko_deZ> apt: Thank you =)
Jul 18 10:14:28 <apt> Ko_deZ: gern geschehen
Jul 18 10:15:08 <ieatlint> heh, so the bot is german even
Jul 18 10:15:19 <Ko_deZ> mjr: So, if my friend, who is a hearing aid repariman, where to fix this for me, how would that go down with my warranty and stuff?
Jul 18 10:15:35 <mjr> no idea
Jul 18 10:15:48 <mjr> "Our sales discussing with our distributor about proper services model, but do not have consensus yet, I will keep update it."
Jul 18 10:16:01 <Ko_deZ> There could not be a much better qualified person than him I believe.
Jul 18 10:16:02 <Ko_deZ> right.
Jul 18 10:16:05 <mjr> once they've done that, I'm gonna ask pulster (our seller) what's the deal
Jul 18 10:16:12 <leinir> Ko_deZ: That is still being worked on :) "We saw people ask about service issues of Openmoko devices, and we are working on it. Our sales discussing with our distributor about proper services model, but do not have consensus yet, I will keep update it."
Jul 18 10:18:21 <Ko_deZ> leinir: right. It would probably take forever to ship it back and forth for a fix though, as I got mine directly from FIC, and not some reseller. Not to mention expensive. We are 30 people here that would like this to be fixed =)
Jul 18 10:18:50 <mjr> yeah the shipping bit would be a bother
Jul 18 10:19:18 <mjr> I certainly hope they'll just go "okay, have some expert fix and if it goes sour we'll cover it"
Jul 18 10:19:43 <leinir> Yeah, somebody with a microelectronics certification :)
Jul 18 10:20:18 <Ko_deZ> mjr: with my very impressiv 28 days warranty, I might not care enough to even bother sending it in =)
Jul 18 10:20:59 <Ko_deZ> leinir: That would be a bad idea. I have one, but I do not have the proper tools.
Jul 18 10:22:46 <Ko_deZ> leinir: Soldering that on with a regular soldering iron can easily become very messy. You would need one of those tweezer type solering irons for surface mount stuff to do it properly.
Jul 18 10:26:53 <leinir> Ko_deZ: Well sure, certification and proper tools :)
Jul 18 10:26:57 <leinir> And that's the thing - you have the certification, so you know not to piss about with it with the wrong tools ;)
Jul 18 10:27:15 <ieatlint> overall, the hardware fix is about as simple as it could get on a SMT
Jul 18 10:28:13 <leinir> ieatlint: Yp :)
Jul 18 10:28:16 <leinir> add "u" to make sense ;)
Jul 18 10:28:30 <newb> ieatlint: u mean i can flash it as many times as i want?
Jul 18 10:28:52 <ieatlint> newb, i've been told ~1000
Jul 18 10:29:03 <leinir> http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f70/snewsh/1213341097588.jpg
Jul 18 10:29:23 <newb> ieatlint: which means i shouldn't be flashing it very often. probably should boot development images from SD card
Jul 18 10:29:23 <ieatlint> yay for dslr cameras
Jul 18 10:29:46 * ieatlint shrugs
Jul 18 10:29:59 <ieatlint> i'm somehow confident i'll get to gta03 before it's a problem
Jul 18 10:30:24 <newb> ieatlint: hmmmm... well...!
Jul 18 10:30:29 <newb> actually true
Jul 18 10:30:34 <newb> unless u flash it 10 times in a day
Jul 18 10:30:49 <ieatlint> well, if it's a year until gta03, you can flash it around 3 times a day
Jul 18 10:31:52 <edistar> an average :)
Jul 18 10:34:22 <edistar> *on
Jul 18 10:37:26 <newb> ieatlint: i want to know.... why is Qtopia 'finger friendly' and not the Openmoko?
Jul 18 10:37:37 <newb> i mean how does it become 'finger friendly'?
Jul 18 10:37:49 <newb> i'm using Qtopia right now and i really like it
Jul 18 10:38:00 <ieatlint> it means it's usable without a stylus
Jul 18 10:38:17 <newb> ieatlint: how do you program 'finger friendliness'?
Jul 18 10:38:35 <ieatlint> make bigger buttons
Jul 18 10:38:36 <newb> ieatlint: even the Openmoko was working without stylus.
Jul 18 10:38:53 <ieatlint> eh, for some things
Jul 18 10:39:02 <newb> ieatlint: albeit u needed to put more pressure if you used your finger
Jul 18 10:40:56 <ieatlint> you go get me some food and i'll explain it
Jul 18 10:41:08 <newb> newb: ok
Jul 18 10:41:11 <newb> ieatlint: ok
Jul 18 10:41:22 <newb> what would u like? 
Jul 18 10:41:37 <newb> ieatlint: we have some nice fast food here in India.
Jul 18 10:41:55 <newb> ieatlint: u must try the Chaats. simply fantastic
Jul 18 10:41:58 <ieatlint> there's a 24 hour diner near here that has a wiener schnitzel vom hahn that is quite good
Jul 18 10:42:30 <newb> ieatlint: i'm not in Europe :) can't help in getting u food
Jul 18 10:42:40 <ieatlint> i'm not in europe either
Jul 18 10:42:47 <newb> ieatlint: ?
Jul 18 10:42:50 <newb> then?
Jul 18 10:42:59 <ieatlint> i'm in the bear flag republic ;)
Jul 18 10:43:08 <newb> hilarious !
Jul 18 10:43:14 <leinir> Hehe, takeaway here in Denmark is a little bleh ;)
Jul 18 10:43:49 <zedstar_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MiLF_interface hmm i was expecting another kind of MILF :)
Jul 18 10:43:56 <ieatlint> well, this diner isn't all too bad, anyway
Jul 18 10:44:05 <ieatlint> at 3:45am, you can't be too choosy
Jul 18 10:44:31 <ieatlint> safe at least... all the cops working nights have their meals there it seems... always a cop present when i go at night
Jul 18 10:44:53 <budfive> which place?
Jul 18 10:44:58 <budfive> norcal or socal?
Jul 18 10:45:02 <ieatlint> norcal
Jul 18 10:45:09 <ieatlint> san francisco
Jul 18 10:45:24 <budfive> ok. cool. that diner's a bit far for me
Jul 18 10:45:41 <ieatlint> where in socal?
Jul 18 10:45:48 <budfive> pasadena-ish
Jul 18 10:45:53 <ieatlint> ah
Jul 18 10:46:10 <ieatlint> yeah, i've learnt that if you want to find out if someone is a native californian, ask them about the bear flag republic
Jul 18 10:46:31 <ieatlint> :P
Jul 18 10:49:31 <newb> ieatlint: would u tell me about how do they do a "finger friendly" program? i mean how can it be finger friendly when all that the touch screen returns is one point no matter how many points are pressed on the screen?
Jul 18 10:51:18 <newb> wait a minute the apps are written in python! :( no wonder!!!
Jul 18 10:51:49 <ieatlint> it's because some applications are such that the input points are too small for a finger to reliably/accurately hit
Jul 18 10:52:25 <edistar> newb: don't you like python?
Jul 18 10:53:01 <newb> edistar: not a fan unless it's for scripting. but for writing apps absolutely no.
Jul 18 10:53:32 <ieatlint> if you say you like java, i'm going to hit you
Jul 18 10:53:43 <newb> ieatlint: don't like java either
Jul 18 10:53:50 <edistar> newb: luckily not many programs are written in python at the moment ;)
Jul 18 10:53:54 <edistar> luckily for you
Jul 18 10:53:58 <newb> thank god!
Jul 18 10:54:08 <budfive> isn't python the whole vision for fso?
Jul 18 10:54:15 <newb> N810 has most apps done in python
Jul 18 10:54:25 <newb> makes it a battery hog
Jul 18 10:54:56 <newb> i like C/C++ or asm
Jul 18 10:56:04 <leinir> Mmm, c++ yumminess :)
Jul 18 10:58:12 <ieatlint> i'm a visual basic supporter...
Jul 18 10:58:25 <newb> ieatlint: YIKES! 
Jul 18 10:58:45 <leinir> ieatlint: You know you're not supposed to be swearing ;)
Jul 18 10:59:17 <ieatlint> ah, fuck, sorry
Jul 18 10:59:23 <swc|666> lol
Jul 18 10:59:44 <leinir> You are forgiven *giggles* ;)
Jul 18 11:00:38 <newb> leinir: would u be able to explain how do we make a program finger friendly?
Jul 18 11:01:01 <newb> by simply increasing the touch area for a particular function?
Jul 18 11:01:32 <leinir> newb: You need to be sure that all controls require only as small an area as can be used by a finger, and if not possible provides some way to show where your finger is pointing more precisely :)
Jul 18 11:01:57 <leinir> The predictive keyboard in Qtopia shows what i mean with the latter part of that statement (tap and hold on the keyboard)
Jul 18 11:02:45 <newb> leinir: ah.. it shows a pixmap of all possible keys that could be pushed
Jul 18 11:03:14 <leinir> Sort of - it also highlights the key you're actually activating :)
Jul 18 11:04:14 <newb> leinir: ah...
Jul 18 11:04:19 <newb> leinir: got it
Jul 18 11:04:57 <leinir> To finger-enable something really just means "Think lots" with regards to control placement :)
Jul 18 11:25:12 * newb yawns and goes to sleep
Jul 18 11:29:56 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke * r4534 10/trunk/src/host/opkg-utils/ (17 files): 
Jul 18 11:29:56 <CIA-46> openmoko: [opkg-utils] Add opkg-utils to the repository courtsey Richard Purdie of o-hand.com
Jul 18 11:29:56 <CIA-46> openmoko:  I've attached a first attempt at this, its basically a small set of
Jul 18 11:29:56 <CIA-46> openmoko:  helper scripts which OE/Poky use when working with ipks. I've applied
Jul 18 11:29:56 <CIA-46> openmoko:  the various OE improvements and tweaks and removed a ton of cruft we
Jul 18 11:29:59 <CIA-46> openmoko:  don't need.
Jul 18 11:34:14 <p0seid0n> hey guys. I just wrote a python app that visualizes the data from the accelerometers on my desktop. Until now i tested it with "offline" data files caputred on the moko. I just wanted to pipe "live" data from /dev/input/event2 on the mokot to my desktop using netcat. But it seems its not available on the moko repository. Do you have any idea how i can get the data stream to my desktop ??
Jul 18 11:35:13 <p0seid0n> wow, netcat is available on moko
Jul 18 11:35:18 <p0seid0n> its just "nc"
Jul 18 11:35:20 <p0seid0n> ...
Jul 18 11:50:51 <Dave> Leinir, does the Qtopia image have a gps app yet?
Jul 18 11:50:59 <leinir> Not yet, no :)
Jul 18 11:51:05 <Dave> weak.
Jul 18 11:51:36 <leinir> 4.4 image will have something simple as i understand it :)
Jul 18 11:52:15 <Dave> :|
Jul 18 11:52:27 <Dave> and what about that nav program?
Jul 18 11:52:31 <Dave> have you tried it?
Jul 18 11:52:43 <leinir> lpotter is investigating options, though :)
Jul 18 11:52:46 <leinir> No :)
Jul 18 11:52:51 <Dave> bah :p
Jul 18 11:56:45 <newb> anyone tried using a blutooth headset to place calls on the neo?
Jul 18 11:58:18 <Dave> It's not easy :p
Jul 18 11:58:30 <Dave> but you *can* get it to work :P
Jul 18 12:02:41 <Dave> leinir, then what *do* you do with your qtopia phone all day?
Jul 18 12:02:51 <Dave> sit there an ogle it's polished graphics?
Jul 18 12:06:33 <newb> Dave: make calls maybe?
Jul 18 12:06:51 <newb> leinir: had success making calls on ur Neo?
Jul 18 12:07:03 <newb> Dave: i did manage to pair a blutooth headset
Jul 18 12:07:10 <newb> Dave: and connect to it too
Jul 18 12:07:13 <newb> thru Qtopia
Jul 18 12:07:20 <newb> but couldn't make a call today
Jul 18 12:07:21 <newb> because
Jul 18 12:07:28 <newb> MY NETWORK is DOWN :'(
Jul 18 12:07:57 <ieatlint> qtopia can pair, but it doesn't do anything once paired
Jul 18 12:08:01 <ieatlint> at present, there is no support
Jul 18 12:08:49 <ieatlint> i believe compiling bluez with alsa support, which provides a bluetooth modules for alsa will work ... but i'm having a hell of a time compiling it :P
Jul 18 12:09:10 <leinir> newb: Hehe, i don't actually do much calling... but texting works fine :)
Jul 18 12:09:27 <ieatlint> (i can compare my bluetooth headset with a regular computer using bluez alsa  and play/record audio)
Jul 18 12:09:54 <ieatlint> err, s/compare/pair
Jul 18 12:10:10 <newb> leinir: i'm fed up i already have two handsets. it's becoming tedious to carry around a third one
Jul 18 12:10:25 <newb> leinir: would be nice if i could use Neo to make and receive calls
Jul 18 12:15:06 <Dave> lawl
Jul 18 12:15:49 <Dave> ieatlint, yeah it's definitely not easy getting it to work :]
Jul 18 12:16:12 <ieatlint> yeah, not to mention bluez with alsa has an impressive number of dependencies
Jul 18 12:16:30 <Dave> hahaha yeah :p
Jul 18 12:16:35 <Dave> so many things to go wrong... :p
Jul 18 12:16:46 <ieatlint> i've 11 more packages
Jul 18 12:16:51 <Dave> oy
Jul 18 12:16:57 <ieatlint> i've gone through like 14
Jul 18 12:17:03 <leinir> Right, just tested it, newb, calls work as well :)
Jul 18 12:17:13 <leinir> Using the qtopia image
Jul 18 12:17:50 * Dave sends leinir some kinky messages
Jul 18 12:18:05 <leinir> Dave: Feel free ;)
Jul 18 12:18:22 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 12:18:34 <ieatlint> i've happily avoided the openmoko toolchain at least
Jul 18 12:18:39 <Dave> hah
Jul 18 12:18:43 <ieatlint> that looks like an even dirtier mess
Jul 18 12:18:45 <Dave> Perhaps a wise precaution....
Jul 18 12:18:52 <Dave> however, it's really not that bad
Jul 18 12:18:57 <Dave> once you get to know it... ;)
Jul 18 12:19:10 * Sp33d3v1l3r ponders if dave may have lost his mind.
Jul 18 12:19:12 <Dave> Kind of like perl, in that sense? >:P~
Jul 18 12:19:32 <ieatlint> i saw perl for what it was long before i tried to learn it
Jul 18 12:19:42 <Dave> good call?
Jul 18 12:19:43 <ieatlint> happily everyone else finally realised it was crap
Jul 18 12:19:44 * Sp33d3v1l3r hugs awk.
Jul 18 12:19:53 <Dave> aww
Jul 18 12:19:58 <ieatlint> thus, we now have python, php
Jul 18 12:20:09 * Dave laughs
Jul 18 12:20:11 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Ruby, XSLT, ...
Jul 18 12:20:29 <ieatlint> i keep getting told ruby is evil
Jul 18 12:20:30 <Dave> use your own language, mister Lint
Jul 18 12:20:58 <ieatlint> if "lint" were a language, i'd use it
Jul 18 12:21:02 * Sp33d3v1l3r ponders if lint is turing complete.
Jul 18 12:21:05 <Dave> It is
Jul 18 12:21:37 <ieatlint> it's people at shdh.org that have been so outspoken against ruby :P
Jul 18 12:21:41 <Dave> ieatlint, do you like prolog? :p
Jul 18 12:21:55 <Dave> man, all the haters...
Jul 18 12:22:50 <ieatlint> never heard of it
Jul 18 12:22:54 <ieatlint> just looked it up
Jul 18 12:22:57 <Dave> heh
Jul 18 12:23:15 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Dave: why would you think that ieatlint might not like prolog? 
Jul 18 12:23:24 <leinir> Hehe, sdhd events sound a bit like how akademy works ;)
Jul 18 12:23:25 <Dave> Just a hunch ;)
Jul 18 12:23:52 * Dave wonders how leinir works
Jul 18 12:23:58 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Dave: does it make you sad that ieatlint does not like prolog?
Jul 18 12:24:40 <leinir> Dave: Oddly, i hear ;)
Jul 18 12:24:40 <Dave> Speedevil, hardly; I really don't hold much of any stance towards his personal preferences.
Jul 18 12:24:46 <ieatlint> i learnt c, expanded on c++... and i'm used to c-based syntax
Jul 18 12:24:50 <Dave> leinir :o
Jul 18 12:24:56 <ieatlint> at the moment, i stick with what i know :P
Jul 18 12:24:59 * Sp33d3v1l3r turns off the eliza module.
Jul 18 12:25:03 <Dave> ieatlint: cool, use perl;
Jul 18 12:25:05 <Dave> :P
Jul 18 12:25:07 <ieatlint> i'm starting to learn/intuit python
Jul 18 12:25:10 <ieatlint> perl is a mess
Jul 18 12:25:10 <Dave> Speedevil, heh
Jul 18 12:25:25 <Dave> ieatlint: hey, it's easier coming from C :P
Jul 18 12:25:26 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Awk is very nice for simple hacks you might actually need to read later.
Jul 18 12:25:41 <Dave> python seems to be pretty slick
Jul 18 12:25:53 <ieatlint> yeah, i've had many an occasion to use awk
Jul 18 12:25:55 <Dave> if you like being anally reamed.
Jul 18 12:26:04 <ieatlint> and i've been hacking way too many files with sed to cross compile stuff
Jul 18 12:26:27 <Dave> Speedevil, do you dislike sed? :p
Jul 18 12:28:12 <newb> leinir: ah... calls work on the Qtopia image
Jul 18 12:28:14 <newb> YAY!
Jul 18 12:28:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Dave: can't do BEGIN{FS="[,*]"} /GPGGA/{print $3,$4"\t",$5,$6"\t"$7} /GPGSV/{ sats=(NF-4)/4,$0; for(x=1;x<=sats;x++){ base=(x*4)+1; prn=$base;alt=$(base+1);az=$(base+2);snr=$(base+3); print alt"\t"az"\t"snr+0"\t"prn; if(snr>4)totalsats++;totalsnr+=snr;}} /GPGSV/&&$2==$3{ if(totalsats>0)print "ALT\tAZ\tSNR\tPRN\t Average SNR "\ "from "totalsats" was "totalsnr/totalsats; else print "" totalsnr=totalsats=0}
Jul 18 12:28:24 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Dave: in SED
Jul 18 12:28:40 <leinir> newb: i just successfully made a call to my bf's cell :)
Jul 18 12:28:57 <Dave> heh
Jul 18 12:29:04 <Dave> yeah it's pretty convenient
Jul 18 12:29:17 <Dave> pcre makes it too easy though :]
Jul 18 12:29:19 <newb> leinir: kewl
Jul 18 12:29:36 <Dave> leinir, how about I call you now? :)
Jul 18 12:29:41 <newb> leinir: was he able to hear u?
Jul 18 12:29:43 <Dave> newb, yeah they sure do work.
Jul 18 12:30:04 <leinir> newb: hmm... actually a good question ;)
Jul 18 12:30:20 <newb> leinir: !!!! 
Jul 18 12:30:26 <Dave> newb, chill out
Jul 18 12:30:32 <newb> :)
Jul 18 12:30:34 <Dave> Don't make me get my tranquilizer gun again :p
Jul 18 12:30:44 * Dave giggles
Jul 18 12:30:46 <ieatlint> calls are relatively reliable ... at least outgoing
Jul 18 12:31:10 <Dave> ieatlint, until your phone goes to sleep and then doesn't wake up :'(
Jul 18 12:31:25 <Dave> and you keep calling it up it doesn't get it. 
Jul 18 12:31:25 <ieatlint> yep, as i've said, suspend is pretty well supported
Jul 18 12:31:28 <ieatlint> resuming isn't
Jul 18 12:31:31 <Dave> heh!
Jul 18 12:31:38 * Dave eyes Speedevil
Jul 18 12:31:40 <leinir> newb: Yes, just checked it again :)
Jul 18 12:31:52 * Dave throws a monkey at cesarb
Jul 18 12:32:16 <ieatlint> leinir, i have to ask, is there actually a female with a neo?
Jul 18 12:32:17 * Sp33d3v1l3r eyes SpeedEvil.
Jul 18 12:32:29 <leinir> ieatlint: No idea :)
Jul 18 12:32:30 * Sp33d3v1l3r sighs.
Jul 18 12:32:37 <ieatlint> hehe, yeah, what i suspected ;)
Jul 18 12:32:39 * Sp33d3v1l3r notes that X has eaten his laptop.
Jul 18 12:32:48 <Dave> RAWR
Jul 18 12:33:24 <Dave> Speedevil: take it back!
Jul 18 12:33:31 <Dave> by force, if necessary.
Jul 18 12:33:48 * Dave volunteers his assistance.
Jul 18 12:34:35 <ieatlint> i'm not one to volunteer myself... against my principles
Jul 18 12:34:58 <Dave> It's in your principles not to rage against the machine?
Jul 18 12:35:17 <ieatlint> i'm on the machine's side
Jul 18 12:35:28 <ieatlint> 1984 all the way, bitch
Jul 18 12:35:38 <Dave> ;p
Jul 18 12:35:48 * Dave hides from retracile
Jul 18 12:36:15 <retracile> *chuckle*
Jul 18 12:38:25 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Foolishly, I've got data on there in an unsaved editor.
Jul 18 12:42:48 <Ainulindale> mickey|zzZZzz: questions again about network register
Jul 18 12:43:01 <Ainulindale> I was wondering if Register() did its job considering the default provider or not
Jul 18 12:46:50 <newb> leinir: :( i put in a Vodafone sim card and tried making a call on Qtopia. Similar results. VERY FAINT Voice :(
Jul 18 12:47:15 <leinir> newb: You may have to fiddle with the volume a bit
Jul 18 12:47:23 <leinir> There's some info on it up on the wiki...
Jul 18 12:47:34 <newb> leinir: turned it to full on the mixer in the call settings option
Jul 18 12:47:41 <newb> leinir: but still no avail!
Jul 18 12:48:20 <leinir> It may not be enough...
Jul 18 12:49:29 <leinir> You may well need to fiddle with alsamixer
Jul 18 12:49:58 * biovore yawns
Jul 18 12:52:45 <Dave> leinir, I believe the instructions posted on the wiki tell you as much.
Jul 18 12:53:44 <leinir> Dave: i've not read them, i just blarped with the settings and seem to have hit the right combination ;)
Jul 18 12:54:36 <Dave> Well, goody for you :p
Jul 18 12:55:11 <leinir> *giggles* just random, more like :)
Jul 18 12:55:36 * Dave rolls his eyes
Jul 18 12:58:47 <newb> leinir: maybe u could help me with the right combo. :)
Jul 18 12:59:24 <leinir> i think the wiki's likely a better option ;)
Jul 18 13:01:26 <Dave> huhu
Jul 18 13:01:42 <Dave> You don't want leinir and their "randomness" :p
Jul 18 13:01:58 <newb> newb: hmm let me see if there's an explanation for the different alsamixer controls
Jul 18 13:02:01 <Sp33d3v1l3r> If each control can have 4 values, then there are 10^56 possibilities.
Jul 18 13:02:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> newb: there really isn't.
Jul 18 13:02:42 <newb> Sp33d3v1l3r: :(
Jul 18 13:03:18 <Sp33d3v1l3r> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem
Jul 18 13:03:29 <Sp33d3v1l3r> has some ideas - I'm unsure of a GTA01 page
Jul 18 13:03:46 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 13:05:50 <kdubois> has anyone installed the fso recently?
Jul 18 13:07:21 <raster> fsoooh!
Jul 18 13:07:45 * Sp33d3v1l3r wonders if that noise is rasters head exploding.
Jul 18 13:10:36 <raster> no
Jul 18 13:10:41 <raster> thats more like
Jul 18 13:10:58 <raster> pffttsft fyf .. fgf. t... f..t.t  ..... .. ..f.. .t..f.tf ...................
Jul 18 13:14:15 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Does anyone happen to know if the iphone processor is binary compatible with the neo/freerunner?
Jul 18 13:14:32 * Dave shrugs
Jul 18 13:14:36 <Dave> doubtful
Jul 18 13:15:01 <ieatlint> iphone is armv6
Jul 18 13:15:02 <Dave> Want me to find out today?
Jul 18 13:15:04 <ieatlint> so no
Jul 18 13:15:13 <Dave> :]
Jul 18 13:15:19 <ieatlint> err, at least, i don't think so :P
Jul 18 13:15:26 <Sp33d3v1l3r> ieatlint: thanks - was wondering about updated GPS firmware for GTA01
Jul 18 13:15:29 <Dave> I could try it :P
Jul 18 13:15:30 <ieatlint> yeah... i'll go with "i don't think so, probably not"
Jul 18 13:16:24 <ieatlint> the libraries at the very least...
Jul 18 13:16:26 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Is there an overview anywhere of what armn is?
Jul 18 13:16:38 <ieatlint> linux vs darwin
Jul 18 13:16:49 <Dave> :]
Jul 18 13:17:02 <Dave> start a holy war!
Jul 18 13:17:05 <Sp33d3v1l3r> ieatlint: that's just software :)
Jul 18 13:17:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> ieatlint: in principle it might be easy as it's just serial. Who knows though.
Jul 18 13:17:40 <ieatlint> i dunno... i doubt you could import apps to the FR
Jul 18 13:17:49 <ieatlint> it'd be a hell of a job if at all possible
Jul 18 13:18:02 <Sp33d3v1l3r> I'm not talking about generic apps. That'd be insane.
Jul 18 13:18:25 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Just the GPS driver - which should only talk to the serial port, and maybe a named pipe or something.
Jul 18 13:19:41 <ieatlint> well, the gps data could well be identical in format
Jul 18 13:20:48 <ieatlint> here's to hoping google releases a native version of google maps that'll run on the FR
Jul 18 13:20:54 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rebf88fef0f9f 10/data/themes/ (zhone_number_edit.edc zhone_text_edit.edc): add missing .edc files
Jul 18 13:21:13 <ieatlint> as they build one for android, it'd be quite easy to build one for the FR ... so we'll see
Jul 18 13:21:16 <Sp33d3v1l3r> No - it's an issue of the driver for GTA01 GPS - it's absolutely not a user software thing. Or related to freerunenr
Jul 18 13:23:48 <ieatlint> yay, i just picked a splinter out of my fingure
Jul 18 13:23:54 <ieatlint> finger
Jul 18 13:23:59 <ieatlint> wow, i'm tired
Jul 18 13:24:14 <ieatlint> and by splinter, i don't mean of the TMNT variety
Jul 18 13:24:55 * XorA sings the TMNT theme
Jul 18 13:32:22 <raster> Sp33d3v1l3r: iphone is not backwards compat
Jul 18 13:32:34 <raster> ie ie pentium-4 vs 486
Jul 18 13:32:36 <raster> so to speak
Jul 18 13:32:39 <raster> both share the same x86 core
Jul 18 13:32:47 <raster> but the armv6 has more insturctions added
Jul 18 13:32:54 <raster> if u compile an armv4 binary it will work on armv6
Jul 18 13:32:56 <Sp33d3v1l3r> raster: Is there a nice overview of the various v* generations anywhere?
Jul 18 13:32:57 <raster> butnot the other way
Jul 18 13:33:04 <raster> dunno
Jul 18 13:33:13 <Sp33d3v1l3r> I should probably google or something.
Jul 18 13:33:18 <Dave> rasterize!
Jul 18 13:33:23 <raster> why does it matter
Jul 18 13:33:32 <raster> for FR u have soruce
Jul 18 13:33:33 <raster> u compile
Jul 18 13:33:34 <raster> ...
Jul 18 13:33:46 <Sp33d3v1l3r> raster: I was idly wondering ig the GPS driver binary for iphone might be more updated.
Jul 18 13:33:56 <raster> u arent going to take shared libs or binaries direct from iphone or FR and put them on eachothers platfoms...
Jul 18 13:33:58 <Sp33d3v1l3r> (than GTA01) - nothing FR related
Jul 18 13:34:04 <Dave> and you might be able to steal it? :D
Jul 18 13:34:06 <raster> not unless u want to do an insane amount fo work
Jul 18 13:34:26 <raster> the driver will be tied much to their kernel and other things
Jul 18 13:34:37 <raster> unhooking it from OSX as such will be a mountain of work
Jul 18 13:34:45 <raster> unless u like hexediting binary...
Jul 18 13:34:46 <raster> :)
Jul 18 13:34:58 <Sp33d3v1l3r> raster: probably, yes. It was an idle thought.
Jul 18 13:36:58 <Xaos> ok...I loaded last nights daily build of GTK and I am getting a TTFF of less than 20sec WITH SD card in place (but no SIM card in)
Jul 18 13:37:15 <Xaos> I assume that the software fix is in that kernel?
Jul 18 13:37:45 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Well - try it with dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/card/kfkfkf in the background.
Jul 18 13:41:37 <TAsn> Xaos, cool :)
Jul 18 13:42:27 <toggles_w> Xaos: what are you using to check the gps? i loaded last night gtk and don't see a gps app
Jul 18 13:42:49 <Sp33d3v1l3r> There is one linked off the GPS page
Jul 18 13:43:22 <Sp33d3v1l3r> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS#GTA01_GPS_driver_.28gllin.29
Jul 18 13:43:24 <Sp33d3v1l3r> even cat works
Jul 18 13:43:52 <Sp33d3v1l3r> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_GPS
Jul 18 13:43:53 <Sp33d3v1l3r> even
Jul 18 13:44:41 <toggles_w> Sp33d3v1l3r: thanks, i must have the wrong image, i don't have any gps software at all, bar cat
Jul 18 13:46:40 <Sp33d3v1l3r> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Howto_Test_Your_GPS_with_agpsui
Jul 18 13:46:51 <Dave> :]
Jul 18 13:46:52 <Sp33d3v1l3r> shows how to install
Jul 18 13:47:12 <Dave> Has a software workaround/patch been released yet for the microsd issue?
Jul 18 13:47:25 * Sp33d3v1l3r points at Xaoss comment
Jul 18 13:47:38 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Tehre were queries if it had been pushed upstream.
Jul 18 13:47:52 <Dave> hmm
Jul 18 13:48:08 <Dave> Right, and, no authoritative verifcation :p
Jul 18 13:48:12 <Dave> verification.
Jul 18 13:49:19 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: did it used to not be that good, and can you test the dd thing?
Jul 18 13:49:39 <Dave> I'll try it thought.
Jul 18 13:49:53 <Dave> Right he conveniently left those portions out ;)
Jul 18 13:50:07 <dcordes_> XorA|gone: we got X starting on kaiser
Jul 18 13:50:17 <Sp33d3v1l3r> dcordes_: :)
Jul 18 13:50:17 <XorA|gone> dcordes_: woowoo
Jul 18 13:50:24 <Dave> ooh la la
Jul 18 13:50:34 <XorA|gone> anyway I must dash
Jul 18 13:51:01 <Xaos> Sp33d: test which dd thing?  sorry missed some of the conversation
Jul 18 13:51:14 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/card/jfjfjfjf
Jul 18 13:51:22 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: at the same time you try to obtain a fix.
Jul 18 13:51:41 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: should increase the time to first fix back to the old figure
Jul 18 13:51:57 <Xaos> ahhh...ok...I can try that but not right now...stuck on the 2nd floor of a 6 story office building...maybe I'll slip out at lunch and try though
Jul 18 13:52:31 <Dave> Xaos, was the device ever able to obtain a fix previously?
Jul 18 13:52:52 <Xaos> and someone asked about which app I used?  I just added scaredycats repos and did an opkg update  and installed the agps-ui tool and tangogps
Jul 18 13:53:04 <Dave> :O
Jul 18 13:53:07 <Xaos> Dave: yes, but it was definitely worse with the card in
Jul 18 13:53:09 <Sp33d3v1l3r> A cat is fine too.
Jul 18 13:53:10 <toggles_w> Xaos: thanks make!
Jul 18 13:53:19 <Dave> :[
Jul 18 13:53:27 <Dave> speedevil: meow?
Jul 18 13:53:47 <Xaos> toggles: after doing the opkg update, do an "opkg list | grep agps" to find the name of the tool for testing
Jul 18 13:54:04 <toggles_w> Xaos: thanks
Jul 18 14:08:57 <Xaos> ok...excuse my ignorance, but what are the (dis-)advantages to using gllin vs. gpsd?
Jul 18 14:10:18 <Dave> you can't use gllin
Jul 18 14:10:19 <zedstar> from what i remember gllin was some kludge to get the gps working on a neo 1973 so u dont need it if u got a freerunner
Jul 18 14:10:23 <Dave> right
Jul 18 14:11:44 <zedstar> supposedly u shud be using gypsy eventually
Jul 18 14:12:09 <Dave> o_O
Jul 18 14:12:17 <Dave> gypsies!? where!
Jul 18 14:12:27 <zedstar> moving in next door!
Jul 18 14:12:45 <leinir> Nah, camping out on the field next to us ;)
Jul 18 14:13:22 <mjr> gllin wasn't a kludge really, even though you would need kludges to get it actually running ;]
Jul 18 14:13:48 <mjr> just basically a userspace gps driver
Jul 18 14:13:56 <Xaos> ok...cool...thanks for the history lesson...I was just wondering why Tango had it listed
Jul 18 14:13:58 <mjr> but yeah, not for gta02
Jul 18 14:14:16 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 14:14:20 <Dave> Correct.
Jul 18 14:14:32 <Dave> I think they should really branch it, later.
Jul 18 14:14:32 <zedstar> well it was a bit of mess as u had to start gllin and then run gpsd etc
Jul 18 14:15:21 <zedstar> something on dbus which automatically loads when required is much nicer
Jul 18 14:15:52 <Dave> oh yeah :D
Jul 18 14:16:52 <zedstar> tango has been running a while on the 1973 so used it
Jul 18 14:19:20 <dtx> so what does that volume slider control while making a phone call?
Jul 18 14:19:31 <dtx> cuz its just super quiet regardless
Jul 18 14:19:43 <dtx> and hard for people to hear me
Jul 18 14:21:35 <DPThough1> How can i can i switch back to slow mode chage after i set it to fast_cccv? (gta01)
Jul 18 14:21:54 <DPThough1> just echo -n "pre" ?
Jul 18 14:23:38 * Dave prods Xaos
Jul 18 14:24:48 <Xaos> Dave: sorry...must have been napping...what was that?
Jul 18 14:25:25 <Dave> So what's the deal?
Jul 18 14:25:32 <Xaos> deal with?
Jul 18 14:25:36 <Dave> The suspected fix is in the feline repository?
Jul 18 14:25:44 <Xaos> oh...dunno...
Jul 18 14:25:47 <Dave> but not in main?
Jul 18 14:25:49 <Xaos> here's what I did last night
Jul 18 14:25:49 <Dave> bah
Jul 18 14:25:58 <Dave> What kind of help are you? :D
Jul 18 14:26:56 <Xaos> I reflashed to the 20080718 version of GTK (both rootfs and uImage)...added scaredycat's repos...installed a bunch of crap (tangogps, agps-gui, python, etc.)...did on opkg upgrade
Jul 18 14:27:09 <Dave> hiss
Jul 18 14:27:46 <Xaos> this morning, I turned on the agps-gui tool and got a TTFF of 18 sec the first time...then 17 sec...after a Hot Reset, I got one in 6 sec...all while in my car 
Jul 18 14:28:00 <Dave> drop it like it's hot ;p
Jul 18 14:28:04 <Xaos> This was WITH the SD card in, but NOT the SIM
Jul 18 14:28:25 <mjr> so where do we solder a capacitor on the sim?
Jul 18 14:28:30 <Dave> hahah
Jul 18 14:28:53 <Xaos> just providing info on the state of the device when test was run
Jul 18 14:28:53 <Dave> mjr are you intending for your calls to take you back in time, if you talk for eighty-eight minutes or something? ;)
Jul 18 14:29:04 <Dave> xaos, alright :p
Jul 18 14:29:12 <edistar> Xaos: hot reset just means that you tell agpsui to forget everything, the chip remembers everything
Jul 18 14:29:20 <Xaos> mjr: can we put a flux capacitor on the SIM?
Jul 18 14:29:32 <Xaos> edistar: I know...just a test I did so I was reporting it.
Jul 18 14:29:34 <Dave> 1.21JW plz
Jul 18 14:29:49 <Dave> edistar: you want a cold reset :)
Jul 18 14:30:09 <edistar> Dave: Xaos wants it :)
Jul 18 14:30:11 <lepta> hi
Jul 18 14:30:16 <Xaos> too bad the chip doesn't have enough RAM to hold the almanac data...is anybody working on a fix for that?
Jul 18 14:30:19 <mjr> I think we're gonna need a bigger battery for that
Jul 18 14:30:25 <Dave> :P
Jul 18 14:30:34 <Dave> edistar :D
Jul 18 14:30:36 <Dave> Aha
Jul 18 14:30:39 <Xaos> mjr: one that can produce 1.21 Gigawatts of power?
Jul 18 14:30:42 <Sp33d3v1l3r> That can't be fixed - but soemthing can upload the data.
Jul 18 14:30:57 <mjr> Xaos, yeah, that. And it's jigawatts, you philistine.
Jul 18 14:30:58 <Dave> Jiggawatts
Jul 18 14:31:08 <Xaos> I've already hooked my Neo up to my Mr. Fusion so that it will run for more than a few hours
Jul 18 14:31:12 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 14:31:16 <Sp33d3v1l3r> http://www.mauve.plus.com/tiles.jpg
Jul 18 14:31:18 <Sp33d3v1l3r> oops
Jul 18 14:31:20 * Dave pours garbage on Xaos
Jul 18 14:31:29 <Xaos> mjr: sorry...Physics major...I have trouble misspeling those words ;-)
Jul 18 14:31:35 <Dave> Hey, I'm only helping :p
Jul 18 14:31:45 <Xaos> LOL
Jul 18 14:31:56 <newb> my GPS doesn't get a fix at all
Jul 18 14:32:01 <newb> anything to do with SD card?
Jul 18 14:32:06 <newb> i can't seem to remove the darn thing
Jul 18 14:32:09 <Sp33d3v1l3r> newb: possibly
Jul 18 14:32:10 <Xaos> newb: maybe...
Jul 18 14:32:12 <Sp33d3v1l3r> newb: use an axe.
Jul 18 14:32:13 <Dave> newb, have you considered the fact it may be due to the fact that you are a newb?
Jul 18 14:32:21 <Xaos> Dave: LOL
Jul 18 14:32:24 <Dave> :p
Jul 18 14:32:27 <Sp33d3v1l3r> newb: or update to the latest possible image. And you have actually turned the GPS on?
Jul 18 14:32:39 <newb> Sp33d3v1l3r: yes
Jul 18 14:32:43 <Dave> Xaos, I was only stating a logical plausibility ;D
Jul 18 14:32:48 <Dave> s/only/merely/
Jul 18 14:32:49 <apt> Dave meant: Xaos, I was merely stating a logical plausibility ;D
Jul 18 14:32:57 <newb> Sp33d3v1l3r: still doesn't get a fix. does it require to have a SIM card in it to get a fix?
Jul 18 14:33:03 <Sp33d3v1l3r> No
Jul 18 14:33:08 <Xaos> newb: try flashing the 20080718 GTK uImage and rootfs
Jul 18 14:33:09 <Sp33d3v1l3r> The SD card may interfere with it
Jul 18 14:33:31 <Dave> fix me breakfast
Jul 18 14:33:34 <newb> Xaos: i just did an opkg upgrade
Jul 18 14:33:52 <Xaos> that doesn't upgrade the uImage does it?
Jul 18 14:34:08 <Xaos> Dave: you mean "sudo fix me breakfast"
Jul 18 14:34:17 <Dave> opkg --force-reinstall install SpeedEvil
Jul 18 14:34:21 <Dave> oops
Jul 18 14:34:29 <Dave> xaos ;p
Jul 18 14:34:35 <Dave> nah, fuck sudo
Jul 18 14:34:46 <Xaos> Dave: http://xkcd.com/149/
Jul 18 14:34:54 <roh> mmh..sometimes i wonder why nobody ever suggested somehing of this for powering a phone yet... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
Jul 18 14:34:56 <Dave> fuck your stupid sudo sandwich (guessing)
Jul 18 14:35:03 <newb> Xaos: going on a trip tomorrow. want to use the GPS 
Jul 18 14:35:07 <Dave> It's of poor quality anyway.
Jul 18 14:35:14 <Dave> roh, yes :)
Jul 18 14:35:19 <Xaos> newb: I understand!
Jul 18 14:35:26 <Xaos> brb
Jul 18 14:35:28 <Dave> We hear you.
Jul 18 14:35:36 * Dave tampers with Xaos's gps
Jul 18 14:36:39 * zedstar tampers with Dave
Jul 18 14:36:58 <Dave> killall hald
Jul 18 14:37:18 <roh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator seems to be rocksolid state of the art for classy space-hw like pioneer10
Jul 18 14:37:32 <Dave> haha
Jul 18 14:37:44 <Dave> And just how exactly does this apply to the freerunner, might I ask, roh? ;)
Jul 18 14:38:09 <roh> well.. that stuff needs to get smaller ;)
Jul 18 14:38:15 <Dave> heehee
Jul 18 14:38:29 <Dave> I'll take it up with some people next time I'm in Japan ;)
Jul 18 14:38:47 <roh> Dave i was just thinking of the fact that li-ion stuff didnt really get better energy density over the lastt few years
Jul 18 14:38:56 <Dave> yep
Jul 18 14:39:05 <Dave> It is unsurprisingly disappointing.
Jul 18 14:39:21 <Dave> vacuum energy, anyone?
Jul 18 14:39:33 <Dave> No offense to Xaos, and his Mr. Fusion.
Jul 18 14:43:00 <raster> The human body produces about as much heat energy as a 100-Watt light bulb
Jul 18 14:43:11 <roh> well.. i think thats what makes clear we will stay arm and mips in phones quite some time still
Jul 18 14:43:44 <raster> so we shoudl turn this: o>-< into this: o[|||]
Jul 18 14:43:46 <roh> x86 based stuff needs >1W peak for the whole soc and nobody wants batterys big as a hand
Jul 18 14:43:56 <raster> the FR should just be plugged into the back of your skill
Jul 18 14:44:02 <raster> and suck the power out of your body to run...
Jul 18 14:44:03 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: Fuel cells will sort it!
Jul 18 14:44:19 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: that way you can get 10W CPU on a mobile phone.
Jul 18 14:44:22 <Sp33d3v1l3r> :)
Jul 18 14:44:43 <Sp33d3v1l3r> However - I really want an implanted power unit.
Jul 18 14:44:47 <retracile> Sp33d3v1l3r: ... and heat your coffee on it.
Jul 18 14:44:57 <Sp33d3v1l3r> That can wirelessly charge stuff, and runs from blood-glucose.
Jul 18 14:45:05 <roh> fuelcells are bullshit and only a bad excuse from people who want alternative storage of energy to fail
Jul 18 14:45:20 <Dave> wah wah
Jul 18 14:45:21 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Fuel cells have applications.
Jul 18 14:45:42 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Batteries are still stupidly expensive in large quantities.
Jul 18 14:45:45 <roh> only where one has no alternative. even a gas-turbine is more helpfull mostly
Jul 18 14:46:16 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Not in micro-scale.
Jul 18 14:46:28 <Dave> speedevil: kinky
Jul 18 14:46:29 <roh> fuelcells are mostly uneconomic. bad energy output compared to the size, bad total efficiency.
Jul 18 14:46:31 <Sp33d3v1l3r> And gas turbines are very inefficient compared to fuel cells.
Jul 18 14:46:39 <roh> fuelcell means <25% total system efficiency
Jul 18 14:47:00 <Dave> fight fight fight!
Jul 18 14:47:04 <roh> because generating and storing Hydrogen is so nonpractical.
Jul 18 14:47:29 <roh> means even a lead-battery has more storage efficiency than a fuel-cell of 'electric energy in now' and 'out later'
Jul 18 14:47:30 <newb> Xaos: i get one satellite on the GPS. when i see the signal strength graph on the agps-ui i get a 2 and a bar
Jul 18 14:49:19 <newb> anyone tell me what the bars on the SS in AGPSui mean?
Jul 18 14:49:28 <Xaos> back now...hey...who's been tinkering with my GPS...Dave...was that you?
Jul 18 14:49:34 * Dave hides
Jul 18 14:49:34 <dlowe> newb: signal strength
Jul 18 14:49:36 <Xaos> SS = Signal Strength
Jul 18 14:49:39 <faern> newb: read about the sd card problem? try without any sd card in the phone
Jul 18 14:49:46 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Well - I prefer Nucleothermosynthesis of hydrogen anyway.
Jul 18 14:49:58 <newb> ok what do the bars mean?
Jul 18 14:50:04 <newb> i got a bar with 2 written below it
Jul 18 14:50:10 <Xaos> newb: just went outside my building (so half the sky was blocked) only got two sats to lock in
Jul 18 14:50:17 <Dave> assy
Jul 18 14:50:21 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: if you'r doing natural gas -> electricity out - they're about a wash actually.
Jul 18 14:50:21 <Xaos> bars mean beer
Jul 18 14:50:29 <newb> and a signal strength of  30 db
Jul 18 14:50:40 <Xaos> means you get 30 decibeers
Jul 18 14:50:40 * Dave ships one of his freerunners off to speedevil for service.
Jul 18 14:50:41 <newb> Xaos: i too went just out of the building
Jul 18 14:50:45 <Dave> BEERS
Jul 18 14:50:55 <newb> so the numbers mean how many satellites locked in
Jul 18 14:50:55 <Xaos> 30 decibeers = 3 beers
Jul 18 14:51:00 <Xaos> probably
Jul 18 14:51:01 <Dave> hah!
Jul 18 14:51:08 <newb> so i need 5 satellites to get a fix right?
Jul 18 14:51:15 <Dave> No
Jul 18 14:51:17 <Xaos> 3 minimum...4 is better
Jul 18 14:51:23 <Dave> 14 is even better :D
Jul 18 14:51:28 <Xaos> Dave: true
Jul 18 14:51:31 * Dave pet-pets his freerunner squadron
Jul 18 14:51:47 <dlowe> Is 14 even possible?  Wouldn't some of them be on the other side of the planet?
Jul 18 14:51:50 <Dave> I get 12-14 from the end of my desk near the window
Jul 18 14:51:55 <dlowe> guess so, then :p
Jul 18 14:51:58 <Xaos> newb: GPS works by triangulation...the satellites report where they are and you need three to zero in your location on a plane
Jul 18 14:52:03 <Dave> I'm just telling you what I get :)
Jul 18 14:52:04 <Xaos> Dave: you SUCK!
Jul 18 14:52:10 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 14:52:12 * Dave hides from xaos again
Jul 18 14:52:15 <newb> Xaos: oh... ok
Jul 18 14:52:18 <balrog-k1n> i'v enever seen more than 12 i think
Jul 18 14:52:18 * Dave hides his beers too
Jul 18 14:52:20 <balrog-k1n> or maybe 13
Jul 18 14:52:26 <newb> Xaos: let me try getting away from my bldg
Jul 18 14:52:36 <Xaos> newb: I've been trying that for years
Jul 18 14:52:41 <Dave> balrogkun, out by the pool I always get 14/14 or 14/13
Jul 18 14:52:46 <Dave> :)
Jul 18 14:53:03 <Dave> I trust it's pretty accurate :p
Jul 18 14:53:04 <balrog-k1n> Dave: cool, are you in the south hemisphere maybe?
Jul 18 14:53:09 <Dave> uhh, no?
Jul 18 14:53:16 <balrog-k1n> ok
Jul 18 14:53:26 <raster> roh: i'm with you. at some pointit'd be nice to use solar cells to get some bonus power
Jul 18 14:53:27 <Dave> I'm in NJ and NY sometimes
Jul 18 14:53:28 <raster> it wont run offthem
Jul 18 14:53:32 <Dave> :P
Jul 18 14:53:34 <raster> but it may allevate drain if in sunlight
Jul 18 14:53:37 <balrog-k1n> i think it was in the south when i had 13 on the n810
Jul 18 14:53:44 <Dave> Ah
Jul 18 14:53:55 <raster> the problem is having solar cells and making them "invisible"
Jul 18 14:53:55 <Dave> yeah, sometimes at night though it tends to suck
Jul 18 14:54:04 <raster> so u can still have a nice case
Jul 18 14:54:07 <Dave> I get at most 11 or so as night progresses
Jul 18 14:54:08 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r9724a571cf27 10/odeviced/src/daemon/ (plugin.vala service.vala): Don't initialize plugin objects unnecessarily
Jul 18 14:54:12 <Dave> strange
Jul 18 14:54:14 <raster> Dave:  as i said
Jul 18 14:54:16 <raster> not for runing off
Jul 18 14:54:19 <raster> but at daytime
Jul 18 14:54:25 <Dave> Hmm?
Jul 18 14:54:25 <newb> Xaos: ok
Jul 18 14:54:26 <raster> if u can partially charge while sitting on a table
Jul 18 14:54:28 <raster> or on your desk
Jul 18 14:54:28 <Xaos> Dave I guess you really need to see the southern sky ...I'm in Texas and have no clue which way to look for the sats
Jul 18 14:54:32 <raster> in some sunlight
Jul 18 14:54:33 <balrog-k1n> Dave: are you outside the city at the moment maybe?
Jul 18 14:54:34 <raster> better than nothing
Jul 18 14:54:39 <Dave> I am :)
Jul 18 14:54:40 <raster> at least it extends your battery life
Jul 18 14:54:44 <raster> doesnt replace charging.
Jul 18 14:54:45 <Dave> soon to change
Jul 18 14:54:47 <balrog-k1n> i think the city smoke also makes the signal worse
Jul 18 14:54:55 <Dave> no kidding
Jul 18 14:55:06 <Dave> not to mention the pollution and buildings getting in the way :D
Jul 18 14:55:12 <Dave> I'll be in the city shortly though
Jul 18 14:55:30 <Dave> Then again from our office, we're pretty high up.
Jul 18 14:55:38 <Dave> though I agree
Jul 18 14:55:43 <Xaos> maybe I should go upstairs and try
Jul 18 14:55:59 <Dave> similarly, there was a really bad storm passing over last night, and it noticibly impacted the viewable satellites
Jul 18 14:56:04 <newb> Xaos: my terrace is locked :(
Jul 18 14:56:05 <balrog-k1n> well here i'm not seeing more than 12 on any gps, in the open space
Jul 18 14:56:07 <Dave> if only for thirty minutes or so
Jul 18 14:56:13 <Dave> :]
Jul 18 14:56:26 <dtx> it needs 3 for a fix right?
Jul 18 14:56:30 <Dave> yes yes
Jul 18 14:56:35 <Dave> think... triangle.
Jul 18 14:56:58 <Dave> twyangul
Jul 18 14:57:02 <balrog-k1n> dtx: yeah
Jul 18 14:57:02 <Xaos> 3 is bare minimum to get fix...and your accuracy will suck
Jul 18 14:57:13 <balrog-k1n> but you need 10+ to look cool
Jul 18 14:57:20 <Dave> That's why Tango doesn't usually fix your position until 4-5
Jul 18 14:57:23 <dtx> I got impatient after 2 and just quit the program
Jul 18 14:57:26 <Dave> balrogkun :p
Jul 18 14:57:34 <Dave> dtx :[
Jul 18 14:58:21 <tunys> Will anyone from OpenMoko be at OSCON?
Jul 18 14:58:56 <Xaos> question: TangoGPS (on FR) uses gpsd...but it looks like the agps-ui uses gllin...do these conflict if run together?
Jul 18 14:59:07 * Dave grumbles about postgis
Jul 18 14:59:16 <Sp33d3v1l3r> You can't use gllin on the GTA02
Jul 18 14:59:22 <Sp33d3v1l3r> the hardware GPS takes its place
Jul 18 14:59:22 <Dave> Period.
Jul 18 14:59:31 <dtx> Hey could someone put up, or has someone put up (I couldn't find it), an explanation about the different mixer sliders and what needs to be done to get a decent amount of volume?
Jul 18 14:59:32 <Dave> even if it's shitty :)
Jul 18 14:59:36 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Well - you can use gllin on the GTA02 - but only if you take insane measures.
Jul 18 14:59:37 <balrog-k1n> for some reason it's always when there are eight visible satellites that there are 3 among them with the signal strong enough to get a fix
Jul 18 14:59:38 <dtx> on the wiki
Jul 18 15:00:04 <balrog-k1n> and for some reason i never see six or seven.. once it hits five, after a cold start, it goes really quick to 8
Jul 18 15:00:10 <Dave> balrog you must reside in a shifty location.
Jul 18 15:00:12 <balrog-k1n> on both the GTAs and the n810
Jul 18 15:00:22 <Dave> Mine goes to 12 instantly.
Jul 18 15:00:27 <Dave> similarly :)
Jul 18 15:00:36 <dtx> Or does anybody know of an explanation of them?
Jul 18 15:00:38 <Dave> GTA02/N95
Jul 18 15:00:41 <tunys> balrog-k1n, where do you live?
Jul 18 15:00:49 <dtx> I had the pizza dude hang up on me cuz he didn't hear anything
Jul 18 15:00:55 <Dave> haha
Jul 18 15:00:57 <dtx> that's totally unacceptable, never the pizza dude
Jul 18 15:01:09 <Dave> We need a Pizza related wiki page?
Jul 18 15:01:15 <_newbie3> dtx: there are some presets you can load...
Jul 18 15:01:15 <balrog-k1n> i need to put my own satellite in the orbit, just for me
Jul 18 15:01:17 <Dave> Ordering_Pizza_from_your_Freerunner
Jul 18 15:01:18 <balrog-k1n> stationary
Jul 18 15:01:24 <tunys> Dave. What a cool nick.
Jul 18 15:01:29 <Dave> Balrogkun, I'll chip in on that.
Jul 18 15:01:32 <tunys> So simple, Dave.
Jul 18 15:01:38 <Dave> Tunys, thanks.
Jul 18 15:01:46 <Dave> Isn't it? ;)
Jul 18 15:01:46 <tunys> Yet it can be so meaningful at the same time
Jul 18 15:01:51 <tunys> Dave.
Jul 18 15:02:03 <tunys> I am repeating it out loud right now over and over.
Jul 18 15:02:04 <Dave> I am glad you see that.
Jul 18 15:02:09 <_newbie3> Dave mobile phone pizza protocol?
Jul 18 15:02:13 <dtx> I thought those alsa state files were just what gets loaded at various times?
Jul 18 15:02:17 <tunys> It just doesn't lose it's luster, Dave!
Jul 18 15:02:35 <Dave> newbie3: PPP
Jul 18 15:02:46 <Dave> Pizza to Programmer Protocol
Jul 18 15:02:52 <Dave> PPPoF
Jul 18 15:02:56 <Dave> over Freerunner :P
Jul 18 15:02:59 <_newbie3> dtx: the state files are supposed to contains useful presets.
Jul 18 15:03:06 <dtx> There is a dominos ordering program already, btw ;-)
Jul 18 15:03:10 <Dave> tunys, no, it doesn't!
Jul 18 15:03:11 <tunys> Good one, Dave!
Jul 18 15:03:23 <Dave> dtx, has anyone ported this to arm!?
Jul 18 15:03:29 <dtx> I think its perl
Jul 18 15:03:32 <balrog-k1n> tunys: you can call me Dave too, and i'll call you Dave, ok Dave?
Jul 18 15:03:33 <Dave> oh hot!
Jul 18 15:03:38 * Dave checks teh cpan
Jul 18 15:03:47 <Dave> balrog, negatory!
Jul 18 15:03:57 <dtx> http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/04/02/get-your-pizza-order-status-from-dominos-from-terminal/
Jul 18 15:04:01 <balrog-k1n> Dave: i'm asking Dave :)
Jul 18 15:04:08 <tunys> tuna@supertunacomp:~$ echo Dave | festival --tts
Jul 18 15:04:10 * Dave grips the hilt of his sword firmly
Jul 18 15:04:19 <davi> When a cheaper a better openmoko mobile?
Jul 18 15:04:25 <Sp33d3v1l3r> dtx: it's way more complex that just a mixer. It's an audio routing chip.
Jul 18 15:04:46 <tunys> uh, wow
Jul 18 15:04:53 <Dave> Speedevil, fix my broken freerunner please.
Jul 18 15:04:56 <dtx> So what slider do I need to adjust to turn up the volume of my outgoing voice?
Jul 18 15:05:02 <tunys> Sp33d3v1l3r, any relation to SpeedEvil?
Jul 18 15:05:20 <dtx> SpeedEvil++
Jul 18 15:05:24 <Sp33d3v1l3r> tunys: He ain't heavy, he's my laptop
Jul 18 15:05:35 <tunys> oic
Jul 18 15:05:41 <tunys> My laptop is MrSkittle
Jul 18 15:05:43 <Xaos> Dave: is that sword because there can be only one?
Jul 18 15:05:49 <Dave> YES!
Jul 18 15:05:50 <balrog-k1n> i think they are the relation of indentity
Jul 18 15:05:52 <Xaos> LOL
Jul 18 15:05:52 <Dave> >:)
Jul 18 15:05:54 <tunys> or when I have internet trouble, I'm BLAAAAAHHH
Jul 18 15:05:54 <balrog-k1n> *in
Jul 18 15:05:59 <Dave> NOW YOU KNOW
Jul 18 15:06:16 <Sp33d3v1l3r> dtx: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem
Jul 18 15:06:40 <dtx> Sp33d3v1l3r: thank you
Jul 18 15:06:46 <Ainulindale> mickey|zzZZzz: still need some information : this time on SMS (incoming gives an id, how do we get the content ?)
Jul 18 15:09:30 <Xaos> Sp33d3v1|3r: is the FR audio subsystem the same?
Jul 18 15:09:42 <Sp33d3v1l3r> dunno.
Jul 18 15:09:45 <Sp33d3v1l3r> I think so.
Jul 18 15:09:50 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Apart from the speaker output
Jul 18 15:09:58 <Sp33d3v1l3r> which teher is one only on th]e FR
Jul 18 15:10:21 <Xaos> true
Jul 18 15:10:41 <TAsn> why would anyone need two speakers on a phone anyway?!
Jul 18 15:10:57 <newb> Xaos: which image were u saying has this GPS fix? 
Jul 18 15:11:02 <dtx> bipolar?
Jul 18 15:11:06 <newb> Xaos: how can i find out which image i'm using
Jul 18 15:11:28 <TAsn> newb, the gps fix is rather new.
Jul 18 15:11:35 <Xaos> newb: I cannot guarantee it has the fix, but I'm using the 20080718 (today's) daily build of GTK...let me get the URL
Jul 18 15:11:36 <TAsn> so use a nightly build.
Jul 18 15:12:00 <newb> TAsn: what command can i use to find out which build i'm using?
Jul 18 15:12:08 <Xaos> newb: go here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/
Jul 18 15:12:22 <newb> TAsn: i only did a opkg upgrade
Jul 18 15:12:30 <TAsn> no idea
Jul 18 15:12:39 <Xaos> get these two files (at least they're what I got): http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2
Jul 18 15:12:52 <TAsn> though i guess the gtk that came with the device :)
Jul 18 15:12:58 <Xaos> and http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080718/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin
Jul 18 15:13:20 <Xaos> newb: you will also need the dfu-util (do you have that?)
Jul 18 15:13:44 <newb> Xaos: yes :) this will b the 5th time i flash this device since yest
Jul 18 15:14:01 * Dave removes Xaos's sd card
Jul 18 15:14:03 <Xaos> newb: you're ahead of me then...I think this was #4 for me
Jul 18 15:14:04 <newb> i tried out enlightenment, Qtopia and Openmoko . i liked Qtopia from the usabililty perspective
Jul 18 15:14:28 <Xaos> Qtopia WAS nice from usability...but I couldn't put any OTHER apps on it
Jul 18 15:14:40 <Dave> right :p
Jul 18 15:15:13 <Xaos> AND...I couldn't "ssh -X" into it and have some real fun
Jul 18 15:15:14 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 15:15:18 <Dave> :P
Jul 18 15:15:49 <Xaos> I think FSO is going to be awesome eventually...I'm betting that SHR will be out before FSO gets good...
Jul 18 15:16:06 <Xaos> then we merge SHR back into FSO and rejoice as the planet's align
Jul 18 15:16:12 <davi> What is FSO?
Jul 18 15:16:14 <Sebastian> Is there a difference between a "daily build" and what I get from "opkg update && opkg upgrade"?
Jul 18 15:16:16 <Dave> FOR THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
Jul 18 15:16:28 <Xaos> and by "we" I mean the developers that do all the REAL work  ;-)
Jul 18 15:16:46 <Xaos> maybe GTA03 should be called the Neo Highlander
Jul 18 15:16:47 <Dave> Xaos, and our smiting sword of unbelieving? ;)
Jul 18 15:16:54 <Dave> Hell yeah!
Jul 18 15:16:57 <Xaos> LOL
Jul 18 15:17:18 * Dave readies his can 'o spraypaint and x-acto knife for the stencil
Jul 18 15:17:27 <Dave> >:]
Jul 18 15:17:32 <Xaos> GTA05 must be called the Babylon  (as in Babylon 5...the last best hope)
Jul 18 15:17:35 <Dave> Should I put THAT on the wiki, once I'm done, Xaos? :p
Jul 18 15:17:36 <Dave> hahaha
Jul 18 15:17:42 <Dave> I'm sure leinir would be partial to that :p
Jul 18 15:17:43 <Xaos> sure!
Jul 18 15:17:55 <Dave> but would probably then just flash the qtopia image -- traitor :P
Jul 18 15:18:06 <Xaos> LOL
Jul 18 15:18:15 <davi> What is the deadline for GTA03 & GTA05?
Jul 18 15:18:38 <Xaos> Dave: you DO have to admit that as a phone, the pure Qtopia image rocks
Jul 18 15:18:57 <Xaos> davi: probably a year after hell freezes over
Jul 18 15:18:57 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 15:19:11 <rockstar> Xaos, except no syncing tools...
Jul 18 15:19:23 <Dave> xaos, uhh not really
Jul 18 15:19:27 <Xaos> I said as a phone...not a pda
Jul 18 15:19:32 <Dave> Xaos, the Configuration menu crashes the phone
Jul 18 15:19:34 <Dave> no thanks
Jul 18 15:19:46 <dtx> how do I play anything in Media Player
Jul 18 15:19:48 <Dave> it has no usability, if you can't install apps or configure anything
Jul 18 15:19:48 <dtx> ?
Jul 18 15:19:56 <Xaos> Dave: LOL...but it's not like ANY of the images are great all around either
Jul 18 15:19:59 <Dave> and has limited connectivity
Jul 18 15:20:02 <Dave> yeah yeah
Jul 18 15:20:08 <Dave> go smoke an fso
Jul 18 15:20:17 <Xaos> Dave: I agree...I'm talking about people who just want a phone right now
Jul 18 15:20:25 <rockstar> I'd be happy just to get wireless working
Jul 18 15:20:34 <Xaos> not a uber-1337 device
Jul 18 15:20:53 <Xaos> rockstar: I got my WPA2 home network working on it pretty easily...
Jul 18 15:20:54 <dtx> how do you load an audio file in the media player?
Jul 18 15:21:04 <Xaos> rockstar: let me find what I did
Jul 18 15:21:06 <ecraven> hey :) just drove my FR home for 100km, the gps works great without an sd card
Jul 18 15:21:13 <ecraven> getting a fix after tunnels in less then 3 seconds
Jul 18 15:21:13 <bricode> Where are the irc logs for this channel? My client died last night.
Jul 18 15:21:21 <Dave> Xaos, you mean the whiny bitches?
Jul 18 15:21:30 <rockstar> Xaos, I don't even see a doc app for working with it.
Jul 18 15:21:31 <Dave> ;)
Jul 18 15:21:35 <Dave> sup rockstar?
Jul 18 15:21:36 <faern> bricode: do you need to read everything? :P
Jul 18 15:21:43 <Dave> you rockin' out with your freerunner yet?
Jul 18 15:21:45 <Xaos> Dave: exactly...like me! 
Jul 18 15:21:46 <rockstar> Dave, not much, still tinkering.
Jul 18 15:21:50 <Dave> haha :p
Jul 18 15:21:51 <Xaos> rockstar: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_WLAN
Jul 18 15:21:55 <bricode> faern: It helps :)
Jul 18 15:21:55 <ecraven> is there a gps navigation system for the neo yet? something that tells me where to drive?
Jul 18 15:21:55 * Dave comforts Xaos
Jul 18 15:22:00 <dtx> ~media player
Jul 18 15:22:11 <rockstar> The biggest problem is that I don't have enough time to spend with my FreeRunner
Jul 18 15:22:15 <Dave> Xaos and any software patch for the GPS will only do so much, if your gps antenna is broken :P
Jul 18 15:22:30 <Xaos> rockstar: get the sample wpa_supplicant.conf (modify as needed)  then go to the "An alternative way to automate" section...that's all you need
Jul 18 15:22:40 <jakob__> i have just merged the articles "Booting from SD" and "Boot from sd card" in the wiki. During this I added some more information I discovered during my tries to boot from the sd card. Maybe someone could take a look to make sure I did not loose some valid information during the merge.
Jul 18 15:22:44 <Xaos> Dave: true
Jul 18 15:22:48 <rockstar> Xaos, I've got an open wireless network
Jul 18 15:23:15 <rockstar> No need for wpa_supplicant
Jul 18 15:23:19 <Xaos> Dave: so, since my GPS has worked at least some, does that leave out the antenna issue for me...or was that one intermittent too?
Jul 18 15:23:40 <Xaos> rockstar: that method will work for open networks too I believe...look at the conf file
Jul 18 15:23:59 <newb> easiest way to set the date and time on the freerunner? 
Jul 18 15:24:07 <Xaos> wpa_supplicant may be overkill, but it has an entry in the conf for open networks
Jul 18 15:24:15 <Xaos> newb: opkg install ntpdate
Jul 18 15:24:26 <Xaos> newb: ntpdate us.pool.ntp.org
Jul 18 15:24:34 <Xaos> you need a network connection obviously
Jul 18 15:24:43 <DPThough1> ecraven: yes, Navit works prettry well
Jul 18 15:24:48 <rockstar> I'll look.  I was hoping more for something like NetworkManager
Jul 18 15:24:52 * Xaos needs to figure out how to get ntpd to get time from the gps clock
Jul 18 15:25:05 <Xaos> rockstar: aren't we all
Jul 18 15:25:13 <rockstar> Xaos, :)
Jul 18 15:25:20 <ecraven> DPThough1: thanks, looking into that!
Jul 18 15:25:28 <rockstar> If I find time, maybe I'll write one
Jul 18 15:25:36 <DPThough1> ecraven: but the openmoko build has not ben updated for a long time and was properly integrated
Jul 18 15:25:49 <Xaos> jakob__: THANKS!  that's one of the things I've been thinking about doing recently (booting up...not munging the files)
Jul 18 15:26:11 <Xaos> rockstar: I'll test it out for you if you want a guinea pig
Jul 18 15:26:27 <Dave> sqeak
Jul 18 15:26:36 <newb> Xaos: and how about timezone? any clue? its getting me onto ur timezone lol
Jul 18 15:26:41 <rockstar> Xaos, well, the time factor has everything to do with what language I can write it in
Jul 18 15:27:00 <Dave> peeeeeaaaaaaaaarrrrllll
Jul 18 15:27:07 <DPThough1> ecraven: navit-project.org and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro
Jul 18 15:27:11 <Dave> ECRAVEN!
Jul 18 15:27:14 <Dave> IT'S YOU!
Jul 18 15:27:39 <rockstar> Dave, python plz  :)
Jul 18 15:27:46 <Dave> Xaos, and the antenna issue permanent hardware, until you fix it.
Jul 18 15:27:56 <Dave> Rockstar, teach me your weirding way :)
Jul 18 15:28:18 <ecraven> Dave: aye, it's me :)
Jul 18 15:28:24 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 15:28:41 <Dave> Wish you were here yesterday we were episodically talking about neod
Jul 18 15:28:57 <Dave> I got to experience more of the absolute joys it brings to the phone, yesterday.
Jul 18 15:30:09 <rockstar> Dave, I think the actual NetworkManager is in python.  I might be able to just strip it down.
Jul 18 15:30:37 <Dave> :]
Jul 18 15:31:26 <Xaos> newb: Set timezone this way: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Timezone
Jul 18 15:31:46 <Xaos> rockstar: I'm working on picking up python...you can do it in that and I could probably help tweak
Jul 18 15:31:47 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 15:32:24 <rockstar> Xaos, I gets paid to write python, I know a bit about it.  :)
Jul 18 15:32:26 <Xaos> rockstar: really...it's in python already...that would be cool
Jul 18 15:33:08 <Dave> rockstar, ooh, goodie
Jul 18 15:33:11 <Dave> Then you can help me :D
Jul 18 15:33:23 <Xaos> rockstar: I'm the "scripting guy" on the "windows team" (all my personal machines are linux which I find hilarious)...the app dev team uses python a LOT and have been bugging me to pick it up...now I have a GOOD reason
Jul 18 15:33:36 <dtx> is there a way I can install all of python?
Jul 18 15:33:44 <edistar> rockstar: wicd is good, too
Jul 18 15:33:45 <dtx> instead of each module one by one
Jul 18 15:33:49 <newb> Xaos: thx :)
Jul 18 15:33:52 <Xaos> opkg list | grep python
Jul 18 15:34:08 <Xaos> pipe that output to a for loop that does an opkg install
Jul 18 15:34:08 <dtx> right
Jul 18 15:34:23 <Xaos> I leave the details to the reader  ;-)
Jul 18 15:34:25 <dtx> well, I'd probably need to filter that through awk first
Jul 18 15:34:51 <Xaos> what CAN'T you do with awk, grep, and sed?
Jul 18 15:34:52 <dtx> I wish there was a python-full
Jul 18 15:35:07 <Xaos> dtx: that WOULD be cool...
Jul 18 15:35:34 <dtx> I seemed to remember when building an image for Zaurus that there was like a meta package for python
Jul 18 15:35:42 <Dave> wow cool
Jul 18 15:36:04 <dtx> that would be nice to have
Jul 18 15:36:04 <dtx> :-p
Jul 18 15:36:36 <Dave> rockstar, teach me python later :]
Jul 18 15:37:27 <Xaos> Dave: rockstar: here's the doc I'm using to pick it up (from a guy that does a lot of OTHER scripting, it's pretty good)  http://www.ibiblio.org/swaroopch/byteofpython/files/120/byteofpython_120.pdf
Jul 18 15:38:06 <Gnutoo> i see there is a hardware fix for the GPS...will it be applied on unit that are already manufactured but not shipped yet?
Jul 18 15:38:10 <Xaos> I think the author (Swaroop) was a Marine in a former life because his name spelled backwards is Poo Raws!  ;-)
Jul 18 15:38:31 <dtx> Gnutoo: not likely
Jul 18 15:38:56 <Gnutoo> dtx, ok so i'll have to live with the sofware fix...
Jul 18 15:39:00 <rockstar> Xaos, Dave, http://www.diveintopython.org/
Jul 18 15:40:19 <Xaos> rockstar: thanks...I'll d/l it and put it on my 770 with FBreader (until I can get FBreader on my Neo that is)
Jul 18 15:40:44 <rockstar> Xaos, yea, I am also hoping my FR can replace the 770
Jul 18 15:40:45 * newb leaves for dinner 
Jul 18 15:41:42 <Xaos> rockstar: I need FBreader and gnumeric added to completely get rid of my 770 (well...the wife will probably steal THAT too)
Jul 18 15:42:26 <Gnutoo> by the way is the audio quality ok for phone calls in FSO images?
Jul 18 15:42:31 <Xaos> rockstar: my goal is to get my FR to replace my RAZR, 770, and a GPS device (which I never bought because I've been waiting for the FR)
Jul 18 15:42:38 <Dave> rockstar \o/
Jul 18 15:42:51 <Xaos> Gnutoo: never made a call when I had FSO on so I don't know
Jul 18 15:43:03 <Chocky> kiddywinks
Jul 18 15:43:08 <Gnutoo> Xaos, so mabe you made calls with another image?
Jul 18 15:43:54 <Dave> It's a trap!
Jul 18 15:44:13 <mmontour> Sp33d3v1l3r: (reading the msg backlog...) I once tried running a Tomtom 'gltt' binary against the Neo1973 Hammerhead. There are differences in how some of the registers are initialized, possibly different clock divisors or something. Anyway, it didn't work.
Jul 18 15:44:26 <Xaos> I've had calls with scaredycats image (GTK), Qtopia (pure), and currently have the latest daily GTK build on but haven't called yet
Jul 18 15:45:03 <Dave> slick
Jul 18 15:45:07 <Gnutoo> rockstar, your name is rockstar because the phone is GTA?
Jul 18 15:45:27 <donomo> ha
Jul 18 15:46:00 <rockstar> Gnutoo, no, it's because I learned to fingertap when I was 15, and thought I was destined for stardom...
Jul 18 15:46:08 <smhar> I am waiting for the 25th July deadline for the availibilty of FR in the webstore. I can live with ustable software that will need cobtinouse updating til it becomes usable, after all I  use debian testing :-) although it is more stable than many other stable system :-)
Jul 18 15:46:08 <rockstar> Thanks for rubbin that in...  :)
Jul 18 15:46:46 <Gnutoo> Xaos, and the audio quality was fine? not like what's described here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality ?
Jul 18 15:47:10 <rockstar> smhar, real men use unstable.  :)
Jul 18 15:47:25 <smhar> my only worry is the hardware. will the new batch be bug free in the hardware? things like the GPS antena could be a show breaker if it happened to the sim card or the wifi
Jul 18 15:47:32 <Dave> Experimental!
Jul 18 15:47:52 <Dave> Impressive!
Jul 18 15:48:04 <rockstar> Pirates!
Jul 18 15:48:09 <Chocky> onnoes
Jul 18 15:48:10 <smhar> rockstar, well, I can not afford to use unstable in production server and desktop, this is my I am using testing
Jul 18 15:48:50 * Chocky really wonders at the people who come in here looking for assurances about stability and production quality, etc.
Jul 18 15:48:50 <rockstar> smhar, I work for Canonical, so I don't run Debian much at all anymore.
Jul 18 15:48:54 <Xaos> Gnutoo: the GTK(scaredycat) mic volume was too low...didn't take the time to play with alsamixer though
Jul 18 15:48:54 <Gnutoo> rockstar, ah ok...
Jul 18 15:49:00 <smhar> my 4 years son game pc is testing/unstable hybird
Jul 18 15:49:04 <Gnutoo> Xaos, ok
Jul 18 15:49:04 <Chocky> Debian pwns you all
Jul 18 15:49:26 <Dave> Chocky :p
Jul 18 15:49:31 <Chocky> 4 year old also uses Debian unstable :p
Jul 18 15:49:36 <rockstar> Chocky, until you realize that your software is 4 years old  :)
Jul 18 15:49:39 <Xaos> Gnutoo: it seemed that the Qtopia defaults were higher volume and it had a slider to adjust speaker and mic separately...
Jul 18 15:49:46 <Dave> ahaha
Jul 18 15:49:48 <Dave> He's got you there :p
Jul 18 15:49:52 <Gnutoo> Xaos, ok thanks
Jul 18 15:49:53 <Chocky> rockstar: It's not.
Jul 18 15:49:58 <Xaos> rockstar: NICE!
Jul 18 15:50:04 <Dave> I think he meant four year oldS
Jul 18 15:50:05 <Dave> :P
Jul 18 15:50:24 <Chocky> we use Etch here for our products and most of that's plenty relevant.  some bits we updated, but it's fine.
Jul 18 15:50:29 <smhar> oops
Jul 18 15:50:32 <Chocky> if I want newer, I'll pull unstable
Jul 18 15:50:37 <Dave> lenny?
Jul 18 15:50:39 <rockstar> No, I mean that Debian's software got released upstream FOUR YEARS AGO  :)
Jul 18 15:51:01 <Xaos> I used to use Debian (2000-2003 time frame)  now I'm a Kubuntu guy...I can still jack with things, but most of it "Just Works"
Jul 18 15:51:10 <smhar> 4 years old son's 10 years old pc (almost)
Jul 18 15:51:18 <Chocky> Dave: I mean for a 4 year old, yes.  kid, not the computer, although the computer is about the same age :o
Jul 18 15:51:18 <mmontour> Xaos: regarding your earlier question, Freerunner is not the same as the "Neo1973 Audio Subsystem" page. A different amplifier chip is used, and IIRC the earpiece speaker is connected to LOUT2/ROUT2 of the wm8753
Jul 18 15:51:28 <Dave> Xaos, and by that admission you are simply stating you are no longer a guy. ;)
Jul 18 15:51:42 <rockstar> Are there any Python scripters here with experience with the FR?
Jul 18 15:51:44 * Chocky high fives Dave
Jul 18 15:51:44 <Dave> Chocky, I know what you meant :p
Jul 18 15:51:57 <Dave> :)
Jul 18 15:52:32 <Xaos> Dave: no...still a guy...just one that now has 4 small kids and not as much time to dink with things that he'd like to  ;-)
Jul 18 15:52:45 <Chocky> Debian has plenty of problems, but those are mostly problems elsewhere too.   Of if you compare Fedora, that has far more inexcusable problems.
Jul 18 15:52:59 <Xaos> mmontour: thanks!
Jul 18 15:54:18 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 15:55:16 <Chocky> D: -< evil Dave twin
Jul 18 15:55:23 <Dave> >:)
Jul 18 15:55:26 <Dave> (hoenoes)
Jul 18 15:55:45 <dtx> so when I go into the dialer app it loads one of the alsa state files on connect correct?
Jul 18 15:55:50 <Chocky> we can be hoenoheros
Jul 18 15:55:50 <Dave> I wonder if I can stream live my freerunner autopsy from the lab, today
Jul 18 15:55:59 <dtx> and is that volume slider actually changing a mixer setting?
Jul 18 15:56:10 <Chocky> Why is it being autoposied?
Jul 18 15:56:19 <Dave> because it's broke, yo
Jul 18 15:56:36 <Chocky> yes, but how did you break it?
Jul 18 15:56:44 <Dave> I didn't, I swear!
Jul 18 15:56:45 <Sp33d3v1l3r> I'm betting extreme sports.
Jul 18 15:56:52 <Dave> XTREME!
Jul 18 15:56:56 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Donkey-lifting.
Jul 18 15:57:00 <Dave> Where the X stands for XXX.
Jul 18 15:57:03 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Bungee snowboarding.
Jul 18 15:57:07 <Chocky> SpeedEvil: my RipStik comes today :o
Jul 18 15:57:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Base BMXing.
Jul 18 15:57:32 <Gnutoo> Xaos, so no echo?
Jul 18 15:57:35 <Dave> More like rocket luging.
Jul 18 15:57:55 <Xaos> Gnutoo...I didn't hear any echo...
Jul 18 15:58:01 <Chocky> extreme ironing!
Jul 18 15:58:01 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Chocky: whassat?
Jul 18 15:58:21 <Chocky> Sp33d3v1l3r: caster board.  2 wheeled cross between skateboard and snowboard
Jul 18 15:58:23 <Xaos> Dave: XXX and rocket luging are a bad combo...especially with the vibe turned on on your FR
Jul 18 15:58:27 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Chocky: ah.
Jul 18 15:58:35 <Dave> :D
Jul 18 15:58:44 <Gnutoo> Xaos, wow...ok so mabe i could use it also as a phone but i'm still undecided if i will use as a phone or not because it can miss calls...
Jul 18 15:59:01 <Dave> Call forwarding please.
Jul 18 15:59:27 <Sp33d3v1l3r> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rip%20Stick%20
Jul 18 15:59:43 <mmontour> jacob__: thanks for merging those two sd-boot pages. The new one still has a lot of obsolete information (like "The default 2.6.22.5 kernel..."). I'd recommend taking out the very-old stuff, writing the main page for Freerunner, and adding a sub-page describing the differences for GTA01 (like the lack of SDHC support in gta01 u-boot)
Jul 18 16:00:10 <peeps[work]> i'm wondering where contacts are stored, and if this data were on a separate partition, could it be used by all images?
Jul 18 16:00:57 <Chocky> peeps[work]: I'm sure that could be done.
Jul 18 16:01:12 <mmontour> Xaos: the echo problem is heard by the person on the other end of the phone call, not by the person using the Freerunner
Jul 18 16:01:25 <peeps[work]> i think it's a good idea, to use a separate "home" partition
Jul 18 16:01:41 <TAsn> Sp33d3v1l3r, i own a ripstick.
Jul 18 16:01:51 <Xaos> mmontour: yeah...my wife didn't mention an echo...just that the volume was very low
Jul 18 16:02:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> TAsn: /me has no real opinion other than I'm not really interested in that sort of thing.
Jul 18 16:02:21 <Dave> To the lab!
Jul 18 16:02:27 <mmontour> The good news is no echo. The bad news is that you may get one after you turn the volume up to the proper level
Jul 18 16:02:35 <Chocky> Sp33d3v1l3r: I only mention it because of the exteme sports thing
Jul 18 16:02:36 <Xaos> Dave: to the Bat Cave!
Jul 18 16:02:37 <Sp33d3v1l3r> There is a fix to the low volume level.
Jul 18 16:02:47 <Chocky> it's becoming mainstream now, so almost doesn't qualify
Jul 18 16:02:56 <TAsn> Sp33d3v1l3r, me :)
Jul 18 16:02:57 <mmontour> Sp33d3v1l3r: yes, shouting. :)
Jul 18 16:02:58 <Xaos> mmontour: ahhh...well that explains it...now...how do I turn up the vol?
Jul 18 16:02:59 <Dave> To the Dave cave!
Jul 18 16:03:04 * Dave hops in the Davemobile.
Jul 18 16:03:07 <TAsn> *he
Jul 18 16:03:10 <TAsn> *hehe
Jul 18 16:03:12 <TAsn> damn it ;)
Jul 18 16:03:20 * Chocky Waves to Dave in the Cave bravely
Jul 18 16:03:24 * Dave hides his alter identity
Jul 18 16:03:37 <Chocky> DaveRobin!
Jul 18 16:03:39 <Xaos> Look...is that Daveman and Bobbin?
Jul 18 16:04:14 <Xaos> Bobbin is Daveman's slightly homesexual seamstress/partner
Jul 18 16:04:15 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 16:04:27 <Xaos> not that there's anything wrong with that  ;-)
Jul 18 16:04:27 <mmontour> "alsamixer -V all", then adjust Mic2 or one of the other elements in the audio path shown on the "Neo1973 Audio Subsystem" page. 
Jul 18 16:04:33 <Sp33d3v1l3r> fix: http://youtube.com/watch?v=21lOpV5c2OQ
Jul 18 16:04:42 <Xaos> mmontour: thanky!
Jul 18 16:04:47 <cjb> aw, the sound on my FR stopped working overnight.
Jul 18 16:05:13 <cjb> maybe it suspended?  I didn't notice it..
Jul 18 16:05:16 <Sp33d3v1l3r> (fix for the sound being quiet)
Jul 18 16:06:06 <Dave> or perhaps it just doesn't like you
Jul 18 16:06:17 <Xaos> Nice YouTube!  that's funny!
Jul 18 16:06:39 <peeps[work]> what's the vid. i can't watch at the moment?
Jul 18 16:07:04 <Sp33d3v1l3r> peeps[work]: It's an alternate fix for if you're too quiet at teh other end.
Jul 18 16:07:19 <peeps[work]> ah
Jul 18 16:07:30 <Xaos> guy with a HUGE phone that rings...he answers it and starts YELLING into it...it's in several locations (art gallery, restaurant, etc. etc.)  performance art I imagine
Jul 18 16:07:51 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: TV - it's a short sketch show.
Jul 18 16:07:59 <Xaos> haha...he's in the library now... HELLO?!?  YEAH!  I'M IN THE LIBRARY!
Jul 18 16:08:04 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: those are collections from many progtams.
Jul 18 16:08:29 <Xaos> nice...I like the compilation better than I think I would like to see them spread out
Jul 18 16:08:55 <Xaos> hahaha...he's on a handsfree now...it's HUGE too
Jul 18 16:10:02 <dtx> So can you actually read text messages some how?
Jul 18 16:11:43 <edistar> dtx: of course you can
Jul 18 16:11:52 <dtx> I see I got 1 text message
Jul 18 16:12:08 <dtx> I went to the folder icon
Jul 18 16:12:17 <dtx> and I see the message object
Jul 18 16:12:21 <dtx> but I can't open it or anything
Jul 18 16:12:32 <edistar> press the center icon at the bottom
Jul 18 16:12:50 <dtx> right
Jul 18 16:12:51 <dtx> I did
Jul 18 16:12:58 <dtx> doesn't say anything
Jul 18 16:13:09 <dtx> just shows an icon with a date beside it
Jul 18 16:15:13 <dtx> maybe that was a voice message
Jul 18 16:18:01 <dtx> I guess its showing voice mails as sms messages?
Jul 18 16:18:57 <mmontour> Depends on your carrier. I get an SMS like "Voice message total: 3" whenever I get new messages. 
Jul 18 16:19:19 <mmontour> s/messages/voicemail messages/
Jul 18 16:19:20 <apt> mmontour meant: Depends on your carrier. I get an SMS like "Voice message total: 3" whenever I get new voicemail messages. 
Jul 18 16:19:22 <wcollins> I have a dumb question about placing calls from my new Freerunner...is this the right place?
Jul 18 16:19:48 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Sure.
Jul 18 16:19:53 <CM> wcollins: yes, but beware of dumb answers ;,)
Jul 18 16:19:54 <mmontour> wcollins: after you've read the "getting started" page, this is the right place.
Jul 18 16:20:10 <IguanaNed796> G'day all
Jul 18 16:20:32 <wcollins> Excellent...thanks...Inbound calls work fine but the dialer app closes after trying to place the call
Jul 18 16:20:40 <IguanaNed796> anyone here using moko on Rogers Wireless?
Jul 18 16:20:47 <IguanaNed796> hey wcollins
Jul 18 16:21:02 <wcollins> I used libgsmd-tool to enter the AT commands and get "NO CARRIER"
Jul 18 16:21:05 <IguanaNed796> wcollins: im in same boat
Jul 18 16:21:14 <wcollins> yup...Rogers Wireless
Jul 18 16:21:35 <wcollins> I pointed my syslog to a file if that would be helpful
Jul 18 16:21:50 <CM> Did people here see Matt Asay's post about the Freerunner? 
Jul 18 16:21:52 <CM> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9994040-16.html
Jul 18 16:22:03 <CM> Kind of harsh I think..
Jul 18 16:22:10 <bricode> IguanaNed796: I've got it working on Rogers.
Jul 18 16:22:24 <IguanaNed796> inbound too?
Jul 18 16:22:51 <IguanaNed796> err outbound and inboud working on rogers ?
Jul 18 16:23:59 <bricode> IguanaNed796: Both.
Jul 18 16:24:13 <bricode> In Ontario and BC.
Jul 18 16:24:27 <wcollins> bricode, what software are you using? did you have to do anything special in the cfg?
Jul 18 16:24:29 <IguanaNed796> hmm Freeruner?
Jul 18 16:24:33 <bricode> IguanaNed796: I'm also using the 2007.2 image from Jul 10th.
Jul 18 16:25:26 <IguanaNed796> i tried with image that shipped.. no outbound.. Now I have qtopia loaded still no outbound
Jul 18 16:26:07 <wcollins> same here...the logs show "No CARRIER", I tried with +1416XXXXXX as well
Jul 18 16:26:35 <dtx> Does anyone know, does FreeRunner load one of those alsa state files when you are connected?  I'd like to get the volume on the mic cranked up, but don't know where to go.
Jul 18 16:27:08 <Ainulindale> dtx: yep
Jul 18 16:27:12 <Ainulindale> dtx: phone-kit does that
Jul 18 16:27:22 <mmontour> "gsmhandset.state" is the one for a normal phone call
Jul 18 16:27:23 <DaveLab> Chocky: What's poppin', C?
Jul 18 16:27:30 <Ainulindale> It lounds alsa states (located in /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios I thinkà
Jul 18 16:27:55 <Ainulindale> So find the appropriate setting and save it in the appropriate file there
Jul 18 16:29:33 <Xaos> wcollins: sorry for the late reply...but there are no dumb questions...however, there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots out there  ;-)
Jul 18 16:29:53 <Chocky> there are plenty of dumb answers, however
Jul 18 16:30:06 <Chocky> Dave: what now?
Jul 18 16:30:09 <DaveLab> mmmmmmmmmmmontour
Jul 18 16:31:13 <dtx> So when you guys first made a call could anybody hear you?
Jul 18 16:31:18 <dtx> Cuz they couldn't hear me at all
Jul 18 16:31:28 <dtx> It just sounds like quiet mumbling on their end
Jul 18 16:31:38 <Xaos> Wow...just read Matt Asay's article...so...which interface did he choose?  sheesh!  load pretty little qtopia and let him look at it again (not saying it's the best...but it is the prettiest)
Jul 18 16:31:41 <Ainulindale> dtx: Yep but with buzzing
Jul 18 16:31:48 <Ainulindale> If I crank up some settings I end with buzzing or echo
Jul 18 16:31:50 <mmontour> Hi DaveLab
Jul 18 16:32:31 <Chocky> hm, I look after a library named DeskLib.  confusing vs DaveLab
Jul 18 16:32:39 <Chocky> DaveLib
Jul 18 16:32:44 <rockstar> One nitpick with the ASU image phone.  Don't lock the screen while I'm en the phone.
Jul 18 16:33:08 <Ainulindale> rockstar: There's better. My OM 2007.2 suspends when I'm on the phone :-)
Jul 18 16:33:18 <Ainulindale> (If I talk too much)
Jul 18 16:33:23 <rockstar> While the system locked, I lost audio for about 5 seconds, and then I had to unlock to hang up.
Jul 18 16:33:42 <rockstar> Other that and the mic placement, it makes calls great.
Jul 18 16:33:51 <DaveLab> :)
Jul 18 16:33:59 <DaveLab> rockstar, assy.
Jul 18 16:34:11 <DaveLab> rockstar, right, just dim
Jul 18 16:34:25 <DaveLab> also I swear, I'd be vieing for a physical hold button right now
Jul 18 16:34:30 <DaveLab> this is fucking ridiculous :)
Jul 18 16:34:40 <DaveLab> (on any image)
Jul 18 16:34:40 <rockstar> :)
Jul 18 16:35:47 <fuzzyt> DaveLab: qtopia has hold button
Jul 18 16:36:36 <Gnutoo> what's the revision of the freerunner that is shipping v6?
Jul 18 16:37:15 <DaveLab> zomg!?
Jul 18 16:37:20 <DaveLab> dude just turn the aux into one
Jul 18 16:37:22 <DaveLab> it's simple
Jul 18 16:37:48 <rockstar> DaveLab, I was gonna just suggest that
Jul 18 16:37:51 <DaveLab> it is difficult to accidentally depress anyway, so one could even settle upon a 3sec hold
Jul 18 16:38:00 <DaveLab> or 2 or something :)
Jul 18 16:38:03 <DaveLab> right!
Jul 18 16:38:04 <DaveLab> :D
Jul 18 16:38:20 <rockstar> Yea, my buddy's face constantly hangs up on people
Jul 18 16:38:31 <DaveLab> it's stupid that not only does the LCD fully illuminate when touched and locked, but it TAKES INPUT!
Jul 18 16:38:34 <DaveLab> rockstar: rofl
Jul 18 16:39:37 <Xaos> ok...I'm in alsamixer, and cannot find where to adjust Mic2  I can switch between Mic1 and Mic2, but cannot adjust the volume...any assistance would be appreciated
Jul 18 16:40:05 <Xaos> nevermind...I was in Playback...not capture
Jul 18 16:40:08 <Xaos> doh!
Jul 18 16:40:19 * Xaos remembers some comment about inquisitive idiots
Jul 18 16:40:25 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 16:40:38 <DaveLab> ugggggggggggggh
Jul 18 16:40:48 <DaveLab> ecraven: why won't my power button work? :)
Jul 18 16:41:23 <DaveLab> The Doctor is IN.
Jul 18 16:41:41 <doc|work> !
Jul 18 16:41:50 <DaveLab> Exclamation Point!
Jul 18 16:42:02 <doc|work> http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/07/18/gps-data-exonerates.html#comments
Jul 18 16:42:20 <DaveLab> o.O
Jul 18 16:42:21 <doc|work> interesting, wonder if there's a way to do that with the freerunner without using a 3rd party.
Jul 18 16:42:22 <Gnutoo> ok it seems to be the v6....so the gps/sd bug is fixed now....but what about the GSM issues like this one: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1376 could it be solved by software?
Jul 18 16:43:10 <donomo> Gnutoo: it is fixed? is the fix a software solution or hardware?
Jul 18 16:43:16 <doc|work> Gnutoo: yes
Jul 18 16:43:30 <IguanaNed796> is there a diagnostic tool for gsm?
Jul 18 16:43:46 <Gnutoo> donomo, there is both
Jul 18 16:44:09 <donomo> Gnutoo: is the software part in the opkg repository yet?
Jul 18 16:44:18 <rockstar> Xaos, hit <Tab>
Jul 18 16:44:19 <Gnutoo> donomo, but if you don't like the hardware fix you could use the software fix wich is more simple
Jul 18 16:44:36 <Gnutoo> donomo, don't know...
Jul 18 16:44:46 <Gnutoo> donomo, mabe there is a changelog
Jul 18 16:44:52 <kd8ikt> IguanaNed796: agpsiu 
Jul 18 16:45:24 <DaveLab> Gnutoo, GPS is hardly "fixed."
Jul 18 16:45:26 <rockstar> WOOT!  Wifi on ASU!
Jul 18 16:45:32 <kd8ikt> i think just do opkg list |grep agps   you'd find the ui diag tool
Jul 18 16:45:40 <DaveLab> rockstar, you wish ;p
Jul 18 16:45:42 <donomo> he said GSM, not GPS
Jul 18 16:45:56 <kd8ikt> oh
Jul 18 16:46:02 <DaveLab> OH is right.
Jul 18 16:46:04 <kd8ikt> damn all these acronyms
Jul 18 16:46:07 <ecraven> DaveLab: no idea, but hold it longer ;)
Jul 18 16:46:21 <donomo> its a french conspiracy
Jul 18 16:46:24 <rockstar> DaveLab, no. it's working.  I just pinged google
Jul 18 16:46:27 <Gnutoo> DaveLab, ouch...i was told that the patch could work even if i had my rootfs on sd....if i do not play mp3 or do something else during the initial satellite search
Jul 18 16:46:49 <DaveLab> ;)
Jul 18 16:46:59 <DaveLab> Gnutoo, it doesn't solve the problem.
Jul 18 16:47:07 <DaveLab> There's also a multitude of problems surrounding the GPS.
Jul 18 16:47:07 <zedstar> my favourite acronym on the wiki is MILF
Jul 18 16:47:11 <DaveLab> That was only one of them.
Jul 18 16:47:13 <Hydrant> anyone running qtopia?  know how to sync with a linux box ? like for the calendar ?
Jul 18 16:47:17 <DaveLab> zedstar? :]
Jul 18 16:47:29 <rockstar> Hydrant, no tools exist.  Write one plz
Jul 18 16:47:32 <Gnutoo> DaveLab, what are the others problems? the antenna problem?
Jul 18 16:47:52 <Hydrant> rockstar: there is qtopia desktop, which supposedly does that but I'm not sure if it's defunct
Jul 18 16:48:02 <zedstar> DaveLab: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MiLF_interface
Jul 18 16:48:04 <donomo> would it be worth while to create a wifi manager of some sort for 2007.2?
Jul 18 16:48:11 <Ainulindale> donomo: I think so.
Jul 18 16:48:23 <doc|work> donomo: absolutely, if one doesn't exist
Jul 18 16:48:25 <donomo> im thinking of a standalone application rather than something fancy
Jul 18 16:48:33 <donomo> doc|work: i havent been able to find anything yet.
Jul 18 16:48:38 <DaveLab> :D
Jul 18 16:48:42 <DaveLab> zedstar :D
Jul 18 16:48:44 <Ainulindale> I don't think there is one 
Jul 18 16:48:54 <DaveLab> Gnutoo, interference, voltage, and antenna.
Jul 18 16:49:04 <donomo> i did this in c++/gtk a long time ago: http://apradar.sourceforge.net/
Jul 18 16:49:07 <DaveLab> that's not counting the sensor problem.
Jul 18 16:49:12 <DaveLab> But there is no fix for that.
Jul 18 16:49:25 <DaveLab> Many of the hardware issues will be fixed for the next phone.
Jul 18 16:49:43 <DaveLab> But still resolutions are being sought for the current model that is already out, at least that is my understanding of it.
Jul 18 16:49:55 <donomo> i figure doing the same on openmoko is doable
Jul 18 16:49:58 <rockstar> But be prepared to shell out $400 again. :)
Jul 18 16:49:59 <DaveLab> crap I hope we have a torx set handy here.
Jul 18 16:50:19 * DaveLab preps his autopsy table
Jul 18 16:51:27 <Gnutoo> DaveLab, mabe i should wait for the next phone...but when will they be out...within a year...more?
Jul 18 16:51:32 <Sp33d3v1l3r> GPS - the software 'fix' results in whenever you access the SD - the GPS signal strength drops to about 2% of the nominal.
Jul 18 16:51:51 <Hydrant> rockstar: did you decide to get rid of your FR ?
Jul 18 16:52:05 <rockstar> Hydrant, not at the moment.
Jul 18 16:52:29 * rockstar is playing opkg upgrade
Jul 18 16:52:34 <rockstar> The end guy is hard
Jul 18 16:52:42 <donomo> ha
Jul 18 16:53:46 <DaveLab> Gnutoo, no clue
Jul 18 16:53:58 <Gnutoo> DaveLab, ok
Jul 18 16:54:00 <dtx> What is voice sidetone?
Jul 18 16:54:05 <DaveLab> Though not many people seem to have more than the microsd issue surrounding the gps
Jul 18 16:54:07 <kd8ikt> rockstar: first time? i'd suggest "opkg upgrade &" cause when mine upgraded dropbear my connection would die and opkg upgrade killed
Jul 18 16:54:12 <DaveLab> other than the voltage problem which affects everyone
Jul 18 16:54:20 <DaveLab> though it's not as much of a showstopping issues
Jul 18 16:54:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> sidetone is the audio from the mic played back into the speaker, so you can hear yourself
Jul 18 16:54:22 <DaveLab> issue
Jul 18 16:54:28 <rockstar> kd8ikt, I fear I barked my install...
Jul 18 16:54:29 <DaveLab> Hello Speedevil! :)
Jul 18 16:54:32 <Sp33d3v1l3r> It's a psychological reassurance that the phone is not broken.
Jul 18 16:54:37 <Ainulindale> DaveLab: is there any other issue ?
Jul 18 16:54:40 <kd8ikt> nah
Jul 18 16:54:41 <dlowe> DaveLab: not being able to work with millions of SIM cards is pretty bad :p
Jul 18 16:54:48 <donomo> kd8ikt: me too. that was fun... dropbear upgrade... NO CARRIER
Jul 18 16:54:52 <Hydrant> DaveLab: nohup opkg upgrade & might be better
Jul 18 16:55:04 <rockstar> Where's the lock file for opkg?
Jul 18 16:55:29 <DaveLab> dlowe :D
Jul 18 16:55:38 <DaveLab> dlowe, hey, it works with THREE of mine, I can't complain.
Jul 18 16:56:01 <kd8ikt> hey this is great i'm playing an mp3 on the sd card and gps is showing like 10 sats
Jul 18 16:56:02 <DaveLab> and I have a bucket full of them which similarly will work with them, so I can't, but yeah from the things I've heard and read, that is unacceptable.
Jul 18 16:56:08 <DaveLab> Though that has been fixed for the next model of the phone :)
Jul 18 16:56:14 * DaveLab pokes Joerg
Jul 18 16:56:20 <kd8ikt> "for those about to rock"
Jul 18 16:56:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> kd8ikt: once it's locked, it works OK in areas with signal.
Jul 18 16:56:26 <Sp33d3v1l3r> kdubois: good signal
Jul 18 16:56:30 * dlowe sighs.
Jul 18 16:56:35 <kd8ikt> well i'm in the basement its having a hard time locking
Jul 18 16:56:50 <Sp33d3v1l3r> kdubois: you're also stationary.
Jul 18 16:56:54 <DaveLab> hmm, let me see if I can force this to the rail
Jul 18 16:58:32 <wcollins> isthere a known problem with the freerunner and some SIM cards?
Jul 18 16:58:42 <DaveLab> Oh, and fucking *thank you* to whoever FINALLY got around to correcting the scripts on the USB_Networking page.
Jul 18 16:58:47 <rockstar> wcollins, yes, it's called "Get a new SIM"
Jul 18 16:58:52 <DaveLab> I'll send you some choclate cookies later.
Jul 18 16:59:02 <doc|work> wcollins: generally it's just that they're not seated correctly but sometimes you need a newer one
Jul 18 16:59:22 <rockstar> Dave, wait wait wait.  We get PAID?!  In CHOCOLATE?!?!
Jul 18 16:59:35 <Tsing1> heh, feel the power of VISTA!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPv8PPl7ANU
Jul 18 16:59:38 <wcollins> i have 2, one only accepts inbound calls, phone won't boot with the other one installed
Jul 18 16:59:52 <Tsing1> caution, don't throw up on your keyboard.
Jul 18 17:00:31 <Chocky> it just happens that I have chocolate cookies on my desk.
Jul 18 17:01:44 * Chocky looks at rework PDF
Jul 18 17:01:57 <Chocky> hell. that's almost too easy
Jul 18 17:02:19 <DaveLab> :D
Jul 18 17:02:22 <Chocky> only problem is finding a 10pF surface mount capacitor
Jul 18 17:02:33 <DaveLab> Xaos what was that url you mentioned earlier?
Jul 18 17:02:35 <Sp33d3v1l3r> digikey
Jul 18 17:02:48 <Sp33d3v1l3r> 10pf capacitor?
Jul 18 17:02:48 <Chocky> are those bipolar?
Jul 18 17:02:51 <DaveLab> rockstar, well, YOU, in particular might, if you help me out :p
Jul 18 17:02:53 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Chocky: no
Jul 18 17:03:05 <DaveLab> But whoever corrected that awful page on the wiki just earned themselves some ;)
Jul 18 17:03:09 <Chocky> well, I'm glad the instructions say which way round.  _not_
Jul 18 17:03:12 <Sp33d3v1l3r> 10pF cap is about 5cm of cat-5 
Jul 18 17:03:32 <Tsing1> Chocky: I had a box of Girl Guide cookies for breakfast.  I love 'em.
Jul 18 17:03:41 <doc|work> mmmm
Jul 18 17:03:53 <Chocky> so which way around does it go?
Jul 18 17:04:27 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Chocky: is this a fix for the GPS?
Jul 18 17:04:34 <Chocky> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta02_gps_10pf_rework_sop.pdf
Jul 18 17:04:36 <Chocky> yessir
Jul 18 17:04:43 <Xaos> DaveLab: what script are you looking for?
Jul 18 17:05:01 <Xaos> er...URL
Jul 18 17:05:03 <DaveLab> :P
Jul 18 17:05:05 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Damn that's easy.
Jul 18 17:05:06 <DaveLab> silly xaos
Jul 18 17:05:14 <DaveLab> the slithery one pasted earlier :D
Jul 18 17:05:22 <Sp33d3v1l3r> I think I've even got some 10pF caps of suitable size.
Jul 18 17:05:29 <Xaos> ahhh...
Jul 18 17:05:40 <wcollins> doc|work...thanks for the details on the SIM...that was the problem!
Jul 18 17:05:41 <Xaos> Here's mine: http://www.ibiblio.org/swaroopch/byteofpython/files/120/byteofpython_120.pdf
Jul 18 17:05:58 <DaveLab> Speedevil, I know I do!
Jul 18 17:06:01 <Xaos> and here's the other one mentioned: http://www.diveintopython.org/
Jul 18 17:06:04 <DaveLab> oh, yeah thanks
Jul 18 17:06:09 <Xaos> brb...gotta go nuke my lunch
Jul 18 17:06:12 <DaveLab> yeah I remember, rockstar mentioned that
Jul 18 17:06:14 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Anyone needs rework in the UK, I can do that.
Jul 18 17:06:43 <DaveLab> Aww, is that where you lurk, Speedy?
Jul 18 17:06:48 <doc|work> wcollins: :)
Jul 18 17:06:57 <MrShlee> will this fix by applied to new units?
Jul 18 17:07:14 * Chocky looks on ebay for single 10pf capacitor, probably worth $0.001
Jul 18 17:07:34 <Ainulindale> Chocky: then for a soldering tool...
Jul 18 17:07:39 <DaveLab> :p
Jul 18 17:07:41 <Ainulindale> Then for firm hands
Jul 18 17:07:46 <Ainulindale> You can't buy those on ebay
Jul 18 17:07:50 * Chocky has items 2 and 3
Jul 18 17:07:56 <DaveLab> Go Team!
Jul 18 17:07:58 <Chocky> and good eyes.  not so much
Jul 18 17:08:06 <Chocky> http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-CAPACITORS-SURFACE-MOUNT-REEL-HITANO-10PF-0603-50V_W0QQitemZ110241547675QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4662QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
Jul 18 17:08:11 <Chocky> 4000!
Jul 18 17:08:16 <Chocky> I can do everyone's!
Jul 18 17:08:20 <DaveLab> hahaha
Jul 18 17:08:30 <DaveLab> What if they were to pay you?
Jul 18 17:08:36 <DaveLab> IN PIZZA
Jul 18 17:08:40 <Chocky> woo hoo!
Jul 18 17:08:41 <DaveLab> (and beer)
Jul 18 17:08:47 <DaveLab> well, I would, anyway :)
Jul 18 17:08:54 <dtx> So I turned up mic 1 and mic 2 and its still reaaaallly quiet
Jul 18 17:09:01 <Chocky> woo hoo! x 4
Jul 18 17:09:03 <donomo> Chocky: wow that looks like delicate work
Jul 18 17:09:14 <Ainulindale> dtx: for you or your correspondent ?
Jul 18 17:09:19 <Sp33d3v1l3r> donomo: it is - very
Jul 18 17:09:24 <Chocky> it is, and TBH, it's not something I'm brilliant at, but I could do my own
Jul 18 17:09:34 <Sp33d3v1l3r> donomo: those gold wires are spaced by .75mm or so
Jul 18 17:09:39 <dtx> my correspondent
Jul 18 17:09:46 <Sp33d3v1l3r> donomo: and the component is about 0.5mm*0.3mm or so
Jul 18 17:09:49 <dtx> Do I need to turn anything else up?
Jul 18 17:10:07 <Chocky> so, does someone have an answer about polarization?
Jul 18 17:10:16 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Chocky: no 10pF cap is polarised.
Jul 18 17:10:17 <donomo> robo-hands and a magnifying glass would help
Jul 18 17:10:31 <Chocky> Sp33d3v1l3r: yes, but which way does it go? ;-)
Jul 18 17:10:38 <Chocky> oh, it's not
Jul 18 17:10:39 <Chocky> IC
Jul 18 17:10:46 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Chocky: no, it's a capacitor.
Jul 18 17:10:48 * Chocky thought you said it was
Jul 18 17:11:01 * Chocky is used to bigger caps, which are.  
Jul 18 17:11:06 <dtx> Ainulindale: do i need to turn anything else up?
Jul 18 17:11:19 <Ainulindale> I don't know
Jul 18 17:11:27 * Chocky whews.
Jul 18 17:11:28 <dtx> Is it working for you?
Jul 18 17:11:37 <Ainulindale> not so much
Jul 18 17:11:46 <Chocky> so remaining problem is buying just a few, not 4000
Jul 18 17:11:49 <dtx> Can anybody actually call someone and they can hear you?
Jul 18 17:11:59 <mjr> yes
Jul 18 17:11:59 <Chocky> unless I have something to canibalise.  like an m100 palm, which is dead
Jul 18 17:12:34 <dtx> mjr: they can hear you talking on the FreeRunner?  Did you have to change mixer settings?
Jul 18 17:12:34 <Hydrant> dtx: I've made calls with my phone
Jul 18 17:12:36 <mmontour> dtx: make sure that your phone is actually loading the gsmhandset.state file when you make a call. You can ensure this by manually running "alsactl restore -f /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/gsmhandset.state" after you have dialed and answered the call. Then tune the settings with alsamixer
Jul 18 17:12:47 <roh> Chocky 0603 is a bit too big
Jul 18 17:12:49 <mjr> dtx, I did not
Jul 18 17:13:12 <Chocky> ok, what size am I looking for?
Jul 18 17:13:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: that's an 0402?
Jul 18 17:13:24 <Chocky> .75mm?
Jul 18 17:13:28 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: or 0201?
Jul 18 17:13:29 <roh> SpeedEvil i think so
Jul 18 17:13:34 <roh> 0402 afaik
Jul 18 17:13:36 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Looks a bit large
Jul 18 17:13:38 <Sp33d3v1l3r> yeah
Jul 18 17:13:39 <roh> i dunno what i used
Jul 18 17:13:42 <roh> http://yamato.hyte.de/pic/mokofoo/gpsfoo.html
Jul 18 17:14:02 <roh> thats my hack.. i just pulled what i had from a defective gta01v5 board
Jul 18 17:14:13 <dtx> So some people have to change mixer settings but not others
Jul 18 17:14:17 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: Investgate if the SD cock pin has a 'low drive' option?
Jul 18 17:14:30 <DaveLab> rut roh
Jul 18 17:14:32 <Gnutoo> DaveLab, is there a place where the others problem than the gps/sd problem such as the interference and voltages problems of the gps are documented?
Jul 18 17:15:20 <Sp33d3v1l3r> gnu{-: it's not a voltage problem
Jul 18 17:15:22 <roh> Sp33d3v1l3r i think andy would have done that...  after all its in the glamo
Jul 18 17:15:28 <DaveLab> yes, but minimally, because not many experience them
Jul 18 17:15:31 <DaveLab> speedevil, it's not?
Jul 18 17:15:56 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: I was wondering about a nice true software fix. Guess not.
Jul 18 17:16:17 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Dave: no - it's a disturbance emitted from the clock line of teh SD which gets into the GPS somehow.
Jul 18 17:16:22 <roh> SpeedEvil well.. write andy a mail if you have some idea.. he isnt chatting much
Jul 18 17:16:26 <Sp33d3v1l3r> gnytoo: I mean
Jul 18 17:16:28 <Chocky> a disturbance in the force
Jul 18 17:17:05 <kd8ikt> ew my screen is all greasey
Jul 18 17:17:06 <DaveLab> speedevil, I thought that the gps sensor was also slightly undervolted and there was a patch pushed attempting to compensate, and bump it up?
Jul 18 17:17:08 <Xaos> Speed: where would we need to put the tinfoil to block that stray RF from the SD?
Jul 18 17:17:24 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: tinfoil won't usually work
Jul 18 17:17:30 <kd8ikt> lol
Jul 18 17:17:44 <kd8ikt> cause more problems 
Jul 18 17:17:45 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: you could maybe use tinfoil and very fine plastic tape to form a 10pF cap on top of a microSD though.
Jul 18 17:17:46 <kd8ikt> shorts
Jul 18 17:17:49 <doc|work> kd8ikt: try washing your hands every once in a while :)
Jul 18 17:17:52 <Gnutoo> Sp33d3v1l3r, ok so there is only one problem: SD/GPS...and a possible(as not evrybody has the problem) problem with the antenna
Jul 18 17:17:56 <DaveLab> All I know from reading the hardware mailing list is that there were a bunch of mysterious problems surrounding the gps hardware, not all of which could be exactly tracked down due to it's shadiness.
Jul 18 17:17:59 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 18 17:18:02 <kd8ikt> NEVER
Jul 18 17:18:04 <Chocky> its
Jul 18 17:18:05 <roh> DaveLab yes.. but it doesnt matter if one drives the gps antenna with 2.7 or 3V
Jul 18 17:18:05 <Chocky> :p
Jul 18 17:18:06 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Gnutoo: that sounds like it perhaps.
Jul 18 17:18:09 <Xaos> I was thinking tinfoil covered in tape to electrically isolate the tinfoil (don't want shorts)
Jul 18 17:18:17 <Chocky> want trousers
Jul 18 17:18:21 * kd8ikt goes to stink palm doc|work 
Jul 18 17:18:24 <DaveLab> roh, but when I have an external antenna connected?
Jul 18 17:18:27 <roh> seems the gain of the amp doesnt change when driving it up (or if it does ive seen no indication about that)
Jul 18 17:18:34 <doc|work> ugh
Jul 18 17:18:37 <Xaos> Speed: so by "top of the SD" what do you mean?
Jul 18 17:18:37 * doc|work showers
Jul 18 17:18:42 <roh> DaveLab same circuit
Jul 18 17:19:08 <Sp33d3v1l3r> roh: do you have a figure for relative db loss with clock off vs with clock running and capped?
Jul 18 17:19:09 <DaveLab> here's my problem, what am I to do with a freerunner that has no microsd, has an external (working) antenna connected but it can never get any gps fix?
Jul 18 17:19:22 <roh> Dave the ldo can output 3-3.2V max.. is usually set for 3.. but via connectors and some parts to measure current and coils you have 0.3V drop maximum
Jul 18 17:19:22 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Return it.
Jul 18 17:19:24 <DaveLab> bad hardware?
Jul 18 17:19:29 <Xaos> Speed: do you mean put a layer of tinfoil (insulated) between the SD and the SIM?
Jul 18 17:19:30 <DaveLab> I suspect so.
Jul 18 17:19:35 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: no.
Jul 18 17:19:45 <DaveLab> I also have another which works only with the external antenna connected
Jul 18 17:19:49 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03john_lee * r4535 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/TODO: add TODO file
Jul 18 17:19:57 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03john_lee * r4536 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/ (dialer.py fso_backend.py): 
Jul 18 17:19:57 <CIA-46> openmoko: modify fso_backend to set mainloop when initialize. use GMainLoop as
Jul 18 17:19:57 <CIA-46> openmoko: default in testing.
Jul 18 17:19:57 <CIA-46> openmoko: * also modify dialer to reflect the changes.
Jul 18 17:19:59 <DaveLab> so for that one I presume that perhaps the internal antenna is lose or something.
Jul 18 17:20:03 <roh> SpeedEvil i've seen some bg-noise floor drop about 10db on a photo of some spectrum analyzer.. but that was with and without cap.
Jul 18 17:20:09 <dtx> ok so I made a call, then I restored my modified gsmhandset.state (with mic1 and mic2 maxed out) during the call
Jul 18 17:20:10 <Chocky> ah hah
Jul 18 17:20:12 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03john_lee * r4537 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/ (5 files): 
Jul 18 17:20:12 <CIA-46> openmoko: * fso backend cope with new odeviced accelerometer change
Jul 18 17:20:12 <CIA-46> openmoko: * accelerometer now cope with fso backend
Jul 18 17:20:12 <CIA-46> openmoko: * put the responsibility of FSOObject initialization into user
Jul 18 17:20:13 <CIA-46> openmoko: * update singleton implementation. we don't use it anywhere for now.
Jul 18 17:20:14 <Chocky> http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=23M9752&CMP=AFC-GB100000001
Jul 18 17:20:14 <dtx> still can barely hear me
Jul 18 17:20:15 <CIA-46> openmoko: * update tests.
Jul 18 17:20:17 <Xaos> you mean a sleeve for the upper half (away from the contacts) of the SD card itself?
Jul 18 17:20:18 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03john_lee * r4538 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/TODO: update TODO
Jul 18 17:20:21 <Chocky> $0.81
Jul 18 17:20:23 <roh> SpeedEvil we requested the same for the sw-patch
Jul 18 17:20:30 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03john_lee * r4539 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/ (5 files): 
Jul 18 17:20:30 <CIA-46> openmoko: modified to receive accelerometer signal from fso
Jul 18 17:20:30 <CIA-46> openmoko: * many other minor changes.
Jul 18 17:20:35 <Gnutoo> and for the GSM i was told that it was software but what kind of software...userspace or firmware (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1376 and http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1415) and if it's firmware would we be able to update the firmware ourselves(i'm in europe...)
Jul 18 17:20:37 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03john_lee * r4540 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/accelerometer.py: make accelerometer.py pull based again.
Jul 18 17:20:59 <roh> things would be so easy if everybody who hacks on our hw would have a full lab with multi-ghz spectrum analyzer and dso
Jul 18 17:21:02 <thomasgruebler> hello
Jul 18 17:21:12 <Xaos> roh: LOL
Jul 18 17:21:15 <thomasgruebler> since 2 weeks i'm trying the qemu version
Jul 18 17:21:15 <doc|work> roh: you mean you don't? noob
Jul 18 17:21:22 * Chocky happens to have a scope.
Jul 18 17:21:24 <DaveLab> roh, indeed :)
Jul 18 17:21:29 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: take some copper foil (aluminium won't work) wrap a .2mm strip or so of it onto the connector of the microSD to the back of it, where it widens out to cover the back. Then a layer of thin tape, then another layer of copper tape to form a capacitor.
Jul 18 17:21:35 * doc|work doesn't even have a soldering iron
Jul 18 17:21:38 <thomasgruebler> when i boot up in qemu, i cannot click on any button
Jul 18 17:21:40 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: this is theoretically possible, but won't really work well.
Jul 18 17:21:43 <dtx> things would be easier if I could get a definitive answer out of anybody having to do with the project
Jul 18 17:21:47 <roh> i am planning to buy a nice small 4 channel 200mhz tek or so some time this year... we'll see
Jul 18 17:21:48 <rockstar> roh, I has an oscilloscope.  That's about as close as I get...
Jul 18 17:21:50 <DaveLab> aww, heehee
Jul 18 17:21:52 <thomasgruebler> ok i can click and it turns orange but nothing happens
Jul 18 17:22:01 <thomasgruebler> maybe you can help me?
Jul 18 17:22:06 <thomasgruebler> i tried the moko makefile
Jul 18 17:22:23 <Xaos> Speed:  OK...I see it now...thanks!  you're right...probably won't work
Jul 18 17:22:39 <Gnutoo> thomasgruebler, ah mabe you have the ASU image...if i remember well i had the same issue...but i tried others images too that work...
Jul 18 17:22:41 <Chocky> anyway, Newark have the part in singles
Jul 18 17:22:43 <DaveLab> roh, at some point if you need specific hardware tests, I could probably get some done.
Jul 18 17:22:57 <thomasgruebler> what image can i use? what make command?
Jul 18 17:22:58 <Gnutoo> thomasgruebler, as ASU i mean the one with QT
Jul 18 17:23:02 <DaveLab> I'm sure here we have pretty much anything you could want.
Jul 18 17:23:03 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Xaos: it could work - it's damn fiddly and probably more difficult than is worthwhile.
Jul 18 17:23:04 <thomasgruebler> i tried myke qemu
Jul 18 17:23:22 <doc|work> how do you even solder something that small? :/
Jul 18 17:23:25 <Xaos> yeah...that's what I got
Jul 18 17:23:25 <thomasgruebler> yes there is a qt icon on the desktop
Jul 18 17:23:31 <rockstar> I keep getting signature checks failing on opkg...
Jul 18 17:23:40 <Gnutoo> thomasgruebler, ah i don't know then...i'm just a user that tried it manually
Jul 18 17:23:51 <thomasgruebler> how can i do it manually?
Jul 18 17:23:53 <Xaos> hey...on a different note: how do I add an app (say a python script) to the GTK menu?
Jul 18 17:24:45 <Gnutoo> thomasgruebler, i followed the qemu howto on the wiki and used openembedded to build my images but i had a bug: the power button(enter) didn't work so i wasn't able to have the usb networking
Jul 18 17:24:49 <DaveLab> meticulously
Jul 18 17:24:52 <dtx> So is there an official means of obtaining support for this $400 contraption I just bought?  I expected basic phone.  I got a phone where the microphone is too muffled for anyone to hear.
Jul 18 17:24:59 <rockstar> No Packages.sig?
Jul 18 17:25:05 <DaveLab> Xaos, create a .desktop entry for it
Jul 18 17:25:09 <Hydrant> dtx: did you try qtopia?  It works just fine for me
Jul 18 17:25:17 <Xaos> DaveLab: create it where?
Jul 18 17:25:18 <DaveLab> /usr/share/applications
Jul 18 17:25:21 <thomasgruebler> ok thanks. can you give mi the link pls
Jul 18 17:25:22 <Xaos> thanky
Jul 18 17:25:29 <DaveLab> :)
Jul 18 17:25:30 <dtx> Hydrant: did you have problems with the volume on the other end?
Jul 18 17:25:38 <smooth_penguin> Sp33d3v1l3r !
Jul 18 17:25:39 <DaveLab> you could also optionally add a custom icon for it :p
Jul 18 17:25:44 <Hydrant> dtx: honestly never made a call with the default distro
Jul 18 17:25:46 <DaveLab> Hello Mr. Penguin :)
Jul 18 17:25:50 <Gnutoo> dtx, could you tell us what image you use? do you use the FSO
Jul 18 17:25:54 <smooth_penguin> hi
Jul 18 17:26:17 <dtx> Gnutoo: I use whatever came with it, and I opkg update upgraded it
Jul 18 17:26:31 <thomasgruebler> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu
Jul 18 17:26:34 <smooth_penguin> well since the Neo Freerunner is an open phone, is there a possibility to use it as a scanner?
Jul 18 17:26:58 <dtx> that part is not open
Jul 18 17:27:13 <Gnutoo> dtx, sorry i don't have a freerunner yet so i don't know which software came with it
Jul 18 17:27:34 <smooth_penguin> dtx, the gsm module?
Jul 18 17:27:39 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, what do you mean by scanner? to scan images with xsane or to scan wifi?
Jul 18 17:27:46 <thomasgruebler> i have to go bye
Jul 18 17:27:53 <Xaos> scan brainwaves
Jul 18 17:27:53 <thomasgruebler> thx
Jul 18 17:27:54 <Hydrant> dtx: seriously try qtopia
Jul 18 17:27:54 <Chocky> hold paper up to FR screen to scan it
Jul 18 17:27:56 <Gnutoo> thomasgruebler, ok bye
Jul 18 17:27:58 <Xaos> police scanner
Jul 18 17:28:04 <smooth_penguin> Gnutoo, haha no, something like a frequency scanner
Jul 18 17:28:06 <Xaos> Chocky: LOL
Jul 18 17:28:16 <Chocky> no RF receiver in FR.  unless you connect one with USB
Jul 18 17:28:20 <dtx> smooth_penguin: yeah the gsm module runs on its own little chipset I believe
Jul 18 17:28:23 * Chocky stabs uses of "lol"
Jul 18 17:28:52 <Chocky> general purpose RF that is. GSM and GPS are specialized RF of course.
Jul 18 17:28:59 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, not with additional hardware...because you would only be able to scan wifi or gsm band otherwise...
Jul 18 17:29:00 <Xaos> Chocky kills lol...now it looks like this:  \o/
Jul 18 17:29:02 <Chocky> as is WiFi :o
Jul 18 17:29:06 <mjr> ...bluetooth
Jul 18 17:29:10 <Chocky> \o\ /o/
Jul 18 17:29:14 <smooth_penguin> Gnutoo, gsm
Jul 18 17:29:19 <Chocky> mjr: er, touche.
Jul 18 17:29:20 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, the linux kernel has ham radio support....mabe look at it
Jul 18 17:29:49 <DaveLab> sweet
Jul 18 17:29:56 <smooth_penguin> dtx, how hard would it be to communicate with another freerunner over GSM directly, eliminate the provider?
Jul 18 17:30:10 <Chocky> more likely you want the V4l Linux stuff.  that has extensive radio support
Jul 18 17:30:15 <smooth_penguin> I know the range would be much less
Jul 18 17:30:16 <DaveLab> gprs?
Jul 18 17:30:32 <Chocky> smooth_penguin: probably not practical.  better to use WiFi - short range of course. 
Jul 18 17:30:36 <DaveLab> right
Jul 18 17:30:43 <Chocky> or WiFi via internet :p
Jul 18 17:30:47 <DaveLab> unless for some strange reason it's not an option
Jul 18 17:30:57 <Chocky> could make them into Walky Talkies!
Jul 18 17:31:00 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, don't know i'm just a user but mabe you should look at the code of the gsm driver....if there is nothing usable inside mabe you would have to make your own firmware....
Jul 18 17:31:08 <smooth_penguin> Chocky, thats what I was thinking
Jul 18 17:31:15 <smooth_penguin> 900 MHZ is nice
Jul 18 17:31:52 <Chocky> more practical to use some VoIP option and ensure you stay near wifi
Jul 18 17:32:04 <smooth_penguin> yeah thats not hard
Jul 18 17:32:11 <Chocky> not skype :p
Jul 18 17:32:23 <smooth_penguin> I know, with asterisk etc
Jul 18 17:32:32 <Hydrant> Chocky: did I hear voip ?
Jul 18 17:32:36 <Chocky> nope.
Jul 18 17:32:44 <Chocky> your 'magination
Jul 18 17:32:47 <DaveLab> :P
Jul 18 17:32:55 <smooth_penguin> Chocky, but 900mhz would give me some range
Jul 18 17:33:07 <Hydrant> Chocky: I'm playing with voip over cellular networks on the FR
Jul 18 17:33:15 * Chocky knows not about GSM haxx0ring.
Jul 18 17:33:28 <Xaos> Hydrant: you talking about using GPRS to carry the voip?
Jul 18 17:33:36 <Chocky> Hydrant: the point is to not pay the provider.   
Jul 18 17:33:41 <Hydrant> Xaos: right... gonna experiment
Jul 18 17:33:48 <smooth_penguin> or probably even turn my phone into a dummy cellphone tower, fool other phones
Jul 18 17:33:55 <Hydrant> Chocky: this lets you pay 1/6 the cost if it works
Jul 18 17:33:55 <smooth_penguin> maybe Im asking too much :p
Jul 18 17:33:56 <mjr> smooth_penguin, first, you can't, and if you could, you'd screw up the GSM system
Jul 18 17:34:11 <IguanaNed796> anyone else have this prob with FR, incoming calls work outgoing do not work?
Jul 18 17:34:14 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, ah yes you want to use it like a walkie talkie....as far as i know the firmware of the wifi is not capable of master mode
Jul 18 17:34:26 <smooth_penguin> Gnutoo, no no not the wifi
Jul 18 17:34:30 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rb7e114ae5fac 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (gpschannel.py om.py ubx.py): ogpsd: GTA02Device uses UBX, configure after poweron
Jul 18 17:34:30 <smooth_penguin> use the GSM
Jul 18 17:34:32 <Chocky> Hydrant: I'm dubious of your calculation.
Jul 18 17:34:34 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, ah ok
Jul 18 17:34:42 <mjr> Gnutoo, as for wifi, ad hoc should work fine for walkie talkie use
Jul 18 17:34:45 <smooth_penguin> mjr, hrm ok
Jul 18 17:34:47 <Hydrant> Chocky: in canada
Jul 18 17:34:48 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, because others phones don't have wifi
Jul 18 17:34:53 <smooth_penguin> Gnutoo, yeah
Jul 18 17:34:53 <Hydrant> Chocky: with prepaid
Jul 18 17:34:54 <Chocky> hm, yes.
Jul 18 17:34:59 <smooth_penguin> all phones have GSM
Jul 18 17:35:05 <Chocky> what is the Canuck prepaid pricing?
Jul 18 17:35:26 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, but if you don't operate as a provider you would need to modify the others phones too
Jul 18 17:35:34 <mjr> smooth_penguin, and every phone with gsm would have to be hacked to very little pieces to get them to ignore the tower
Jul 18 17:35:40 <doc|work> Chocky: your leg, arm, and first born child
Jul 18 17:35:57 <mjr> smooth_penguin, also, it would be illegal in (most?) parts of the world
Jul 18 17:36:01 <Chocky> doc|home: yessir.  so how does the 1/6th come into it?
Jul 18 17:36:24 <smooth_penguin> mjr, yeah I agree to all that, I was just wondering about the possibility of eliminating the provider
Jul 18 17:36:26 <Hydrant> Chocky: I'm paying like $0.30 / minute of phone time
Jul 18 17:36:38 <smooth_penguin> oh and yes confusing the other phones a bit :p
Jul 18 17:36:50 <doc|work> Chocky: no clue
Jul 18 17:36:54 <Chocky> and how does that turn into $0.05/minute?
Jul 18 17:37:01 <doc|work> Hydrant: but you pay much more for data
Jul 18 17:37:06 <smooth_penguin> But I guess one would have to be a GSM god for all that
Jul 18 17:37:15 <Hydrant> Chocky: I can get a pure data plan for 300MB for $30/ month...  if you calculuate the data requirements of voip vs. the cost of talk time it's cheaper
Jul 18 17:37:18 <mjr> smooth_penguin, with gsm, practically none. And confusing the other phones would be what we call interfering with telecommunications, possibly emergency calls
Jul 18 17:37:23 <Chocky> hm.
Jul 18 17:37:33 <doc|work> Hydrant: that's a temporary offer
Jul 18 17:37:33 <Sp33d3v1l3r> GPRS has a delay of 2 seconds up to.
Jul 18 17:37:43 <Hydrant> doc|work: no... I checked the actual plans.
Jul 18 17:37:46 <Hydrant> doc|
Jul 18 17:37:51 <doc|work> Hydrant: really?
Jul 18 17:37:53 <Hydrant> doc|work: not the 6GB one
Jul 18 17:38:00 <Hydrant> doc|work: I just need $300MB
Jul 18 17:38:00 <doc|work> Hydrant: three year contract?
Jul 18 17:38:03 <Sp33d3v1l3r> So it's not really suitable for VOIP.; Though it'll work for PTT
Jul 18 17:38:05 <Hydrant> arrgh... you know what I mean
Jul 18 17:38:10 <Hydrant> doc|work: no, month to month
Jul 18 17:38:13 <doc|work> oh
Jul 18 17:38:15 <doc|work> not bad
Jul 18 17:38:27 <Hydrant> Sp33d3v1l3r: there's really a 2s delay for GPRS ?
Jul 18 17:38:28 <doc|work> relatively speaking
Jul 18 17:38:36 <mjr> Hydrant, up to, he said
Jul 18 17:38:37 <Hydrant> doc|work: right... just a way of cheating the system
Jul 18 17:38:38 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Hydrant: yes - typically up to that.
Jul 18 17:38:44 <smooth_penguin> Hydrant, huge delay
Jul 18 17:38:45 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Hydrant: 600ms tpyical IME
Jul 18 17:38:49 <Hydrant> Sp33d3v1l3r: before connection, or for each packet
Jul 18 17:38:55 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Per packet.
Jul 18 17:38:57 <doc|work> Hydrant: I still don't spend $30 on phone calls every month :/
Jul 18 17:39:07 <Hydrant> Sp33d3v1l3r: is 3G better for that latency ?
Jul 18 17:39:09 <smooth_penguin> all wireless communications suffer from lag
Jul 18 17:39:10 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Hydrant: I saw a typical 400-800ms delay over most connections.
Jul 18 17:39:14 <Sp33d3v1l3r> smooth_penguin: nope.
Jul 18 17:39:16 <DaveLab> ack
Jul 18 17:39:17 <doc|work> Hydrant: you also need to pay wifi out fees
Jul 18 17:39:20 <mjr> Hydrant, it is.
Jul 18 17:39:24 <Sp33d3v1l3r> smooth_penguin: that lag has nothing to do with wireless lag.
Jul 18 17:39:34 <Sp33d3v1l3r> smooth_penguin: that's maybe a couple of milliseconds of that. 
Jul 18 17:39:34 <doc|work> Hydrant: er, voip out fees
Jul 18 17:39:35 <smooth_penguin> Sp33d3v1l3r, I know satellite comm does?
Jul 18 17:39:47 <DaveLab> speedevil, unless it's ptp, right?
Jul 18 17:39:52 <Hydrant> doc|work: with voicenetwork.ca it' sjust 1c / minute to anywhere in canada
Jul 18 17:39:54 <DaveLab> if we're still talking about wireless communications times
Jul 18 17:39:59 <Hydrant> so I can order pizza or call vancouver for the same price
Jul 18 17:40:05 <Sp33d3v1l3r> smooth_penguin: That's not related - the comms goes directly from your GSM phone to the tower, then onto the internet.
Jul 18 17:40:12 <Hydrant> would this idea work for 3G or no ?
Jul 18 17:40:14 <Sp33d3v1l3r> smooth_penguin: it never goes to a satellite
Jul 18 17:40:14 <DaveLab> hydrant, for a second I suspected you were speaking french :D
Jul 18 17:40:18 <doc|work> Hydrant: not bad
Jul 18 17:40:21 <Hydrant> It might still be worth developing
Jul 18 17:40:23 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Hydrant: some 3G are similarly slow
Jul 18 17:40:30 <Hydrant> doc|work: I use voip at home for my actual phone
Jul 18 17:40:41 <Xaos> ok...next menu question...how do I get the application icon to show up in "Utilities" instead of "Applications"?
Jul 18 17:41:02 <mjr> yeah true, "3g" is a fuzzy concept. UMTS has much better lag times though than gprs.
Jul 18 17:41:02 <doc|work> Hydrant: I definitely like the idea, but it doesn't pay for me in canada just yet. Ekiga has much of that functionality, port?
Jul 18 17:41:12 <smooth_penguin> Sp33d3v1l3r, oh I was talking about the folks who use Sat based internets
Jul 18 17:41:15 <DaveLab> and doc isn't Québeçois... -thankfully-
Jul 18 17:41:22 * doc|work wipes brow
Jul 18 17:41:24 <Sp33d3v1l3r> smooth_penguin: ah - sorry
Jul 18 17:41:26 <smooth_penguin> they face huge latencies
Jul 18 17:41:29 <doc|work> doc isn't even canadian :)
Jul 18 17:41:30 <DaveLab> ¬_¬
Jul 18 17:41:38 <DaveLab> a likely story...
Jul 18 17:41:50 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, mabe you should look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM#Network_structure
Jul 18 17:41:58 <mmontour> Chocky: Canadian prepaid pricing - http://www.fido.ca/web/content/prepaid/prepaid_airtime_rates
Jul 18 17:42:02 <Hydrant> so is the voip cellular internet worth working on, or is it completely too unrealistic with modern networks ?
Jul 18 17:42:05 <smooth_penguin> Gnutoo, thanks :)
Jul 18 17:42:08 <smooth_penguin> Ill read it
Jul 18 17:42:09 <Xaos> Hey...you canadians know how to spell Canada?  It's only three letters:
Jul 18 17:42:25 <mmontour> C, eh, N, eh, D, eh
Jul 18 17:42:32 <Xaos> BINGO!
Jul 18 17:42:33 <smooth_penguin> Hydrant, its extremely customizable
Jul 18 17:42:44 <mmontour> old joke.
Jul 18 17:42:45 <DaveLab> there's a moose loose in the hoose!
Jul 18 17:42:46 <smooth_penguin> I mean asterisk is insane
Jul 18 17:42:49 <dtx> So who in hear can call someone and the other party could hear them out of the box without tweaking?
Jul 18 17:42:52 <Xaos> yep...but still a good one
Jul 18 17:42:54 <dtx> who in here
Jul 18 17:42:57 <DaveLab> :p
Jul 18 17:43:06 <mjr> Hydrant, voip over umts can be okay. There's more pressing issues for openmoko though, seeing as 04 at earliest will have it. Though on the other hand, voip over wifi is basically the same, code-wise, and is relevant now.
Jul 18 17:43:08 <Hydrant> smooth_penguin: yah, I can do it.. question is will it work
Jul 18 17:43:24 <Hydrant> mjr: I would code it
Jul 18 17:43:32 <Hydrant> mjr: just checking if it's worth it
Jul 18 17:43:40 <DaveLab> Didn't apple just offer some scam like that, after jumping in bed with AT&T?
Jul 18 17:43:45 <DaveLab> <blackhole>
Jul 18 17:43:48 <doc|work> Hydrant: why reinvent the wheel? why not just port ekiga?
Jul 18 17:43:48 <kd8ikt> need dialer mod frontend to iaxclient
Jul 18 17:43:56 <Hydrant> wtf is ekiga ?
Jul 18 17:43:59 <MadTBone> dtx: uhh...I think everyone can...
Jul 18 17:44:02 <DaveLab> :D
Jul 18 17:44:03 <doc|work> Hydrant: ekiga.org :)
Jul 18 17:44:03 <kd8ikt> no ekiga
Jul 18 17:44:05 * mjr would rather port twinklephone, if only because it supports zrtp for encryption
Jul 18 17:44:12 <mjr> where ekiga doesn't
Jul 18 17:44:18 <kd8ikt> ekiga is too big
Jul 18 17:44:23 <dtx> MadTBone: You have a freerunner?
Jul 18 17:44:23 <doc|work> haven't tried twinklephone, wasn't working last I tried
Jul 18 17:44:31 <MadTBone> dtx: at least everyone with a compatible sim
Jul 18 17:44:34 <doc|work> kd8ikt: that's why you port :)
Jul 18 17:44:35 <MadTBone> dtx: yes
Jul 18 17:44:36 <mmontour> dtx: you might want to ask some other Freerunner owner to try your modified gsmhandset.state file to see whether or not they can be heard on the other side. If it works for them but not for you then it might be a hardware issue
Jul 18 17:44:36 <Xaos> yeah...voip for this phone NEEDS encryption capabilities
Jul 18 17:44:56 <dtx> I'm thinking it is
Jul 18 17:44:57 <Hydrant> Xaos: no such thing as encryption for voip
Jul 18 17:44:59 <kd8ikt> now thats why you start from scratch and make a small frontend to iaxclient
Jul 18 17:45:09 <dtx> how about this
Jul 18 17:45:16 <dtx> can someone send me their gsmhandset.state file?
Jul 18 17:46:11 <dtx> a working one
Jul 18 17:46:23 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Hydrant: err - what?
Jul 18 17:46:32 <kd8ikt> http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/mokoiax/
Jul 18 17:46:47 <Hydrant> Sp33d3v1l3r: to my knowledge there is no standard for encryption of voip
Jul 18 17:46:53 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Ah.
Jul 18 17:47:06 <Sp33d3v1l3r> That's fair enough. You can of course ssh tunnel it.
Jul 18 17:47:17 <Xaos> Hydrant...yes...there is encryption for VOIP...it's just usually implemented as a proxy...no standardization though
Jul 18 17:47:17 <dtx> anybody?
Jul 18 17:47:19 <Hydrant> Sp33d3v1l3r: not really... the provider will still send it over
Jul 18 17:47:32 <Hydrant> Xaos: no standard means no exist :-P
Jul 18 17:47:38 <Xaos> LOL
Jul 18 17:47:47 <MadTBone> dtx: working on it
Jul 18 17:47:54 * Xaos protected his LOL from the spear
Jul 18 17:47:55 <dtx> MadTBone: k, thx
Jul 18 17:47:57 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, if i remember well the TI calypso is controlled by AT commands...so you will need to create a free firmware...and i would like to run it if you succeed
Jul 18 17:48:17 <mmontour> dtx: if you do find that it's hardware, post a message to https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support and/or add an entry to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Hardware_Issues
Jul 18 17:48:41 <DaveLab> friggin' glamo
Jul 18 17:48:44 <dtx> k
Jul 18 17:48:55 <smooth_penguin> Gnutoo, heh yeah I plan to get the freerunner, but I really dont know much about GSM atm
Jul 18 17:48:59 <mjr> SRTP is an RFC for encryption of RTP streams, which are widely used in VOIP; ZRTP which defines the key exchange and stuff like that is on the RFC track and implemented in the GNU ccRTP stack. Standard enough for me.
Jul 18 17:49:16 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, do you know about programming?
Jul 18 17:49:31 <Gnutoo> smooth_penguin, because for gsm you could learn...
Jul 18 17:49:37 <smooth_penguin> yeah 
Jul 18 17:49:49 <smooth_penguin> I code in C
Jul 18 17:49:53 <Sp33d3v1l3r> The GSM stack is horribly complex.
Jul 18 17:49:58 <Tsing1> bugger.  I stayed home to get my package and ups changed it to Monday.
Jul 18 17:50:06 <jOERG_rw> roh: hi!
Jul 18 17:50:07 <Sp33d3v1l3r> :(
Jul 18 17:50:11 <Tsing1> yeah
Jul 18 17:50:16 <smooth_penguin> Sp33d3v1l3r, any docs I could read?
Jul 18 17:50:33 <dtx> hey is there just some kind of way to echo back what comes into the mic?
Jul 18 17:50:43 <Tsing1> I can't stay home Monday, oh well.  I'll pick it up at their depot tuesday.
Jul 18 17:50:51 <Xaos> dtx: quick!  port audacity to the moko
Jul 18 17:50:58 <DaveLab> Joerg!
Jul 18 17:51:20 <dtx> OpenEmbedded has an audacity recipe I think
Jul 18 17:51:21 <jOERG_rw> dtx: capture with pcm, arecord. then pipe to aplay
Jul 18 17:51:27 <Sp33d3v1l3r> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware
Jul 18 17:51:28 <Hydrant> dtx: have you tryed calling someone else?  maybe that person needs to up the volume on their handset
Jul 18 17:51:49 <Sp33d3v1l3r> smooth_penguin: has the docs of the calypso (NDAd, but leaked) linked from it.
Jul 18 17:51:52 <Xaos> did I see somewhere that there's a package (maybe not complete) for FBReader on the Neo?
Jul 18 17:51:57 <dtx> jOERG_rw: arecord and aplay won't work because its using Pulse audio right?
Jul 18 17:52:05 <jOERG_rw> DaveLab: heard you're giong to buy ~5000 10pF ??? ;-)
Jul 18 17:52:10 <dtx> Hydrant: I called my voicemail, its definitely on the phone end
Jul 18 17:52:19 <dtx> on the phone mic end
Jul 18 17:52:27 <mmontour> dtx: you can shut down pulseaudio and then run the alsa programs
Jul 18 17:52:38 <jOERG_rw> dtx: maybe. it worked on some testsystem based oon FSO for me
Jul 18 17:52:56 <Yasumoto> alright, so I'm thinking it's about time I write my first "hello world" on the freerunner, but I'm a little confused/concerned about what wiki page to follow to get things set up
Jul 18 17:52:59 <dtx> let me try
Jul 18 17:53:07 <Yasumoto> what're some pages people have used successfully?
Jul 18 17:53:21 <kd8ikt> people cant hear me with all the static when using headset
Jul 18 17:53:35 <DaveLab> Joerg, nooooooooooooo
Jul 18 17:54:17 <dtx> I'm behind a NAT would that matter?
Jul 18 17:54:27 <jOERG_rw> DaveLab: ok so I'll bring 10.000 of them to Europe when I return next month from.tw Stash them in my pocket ;-)
Jul 18 17:55:13 <smooth_penguin> so how are your experiences with the freerunner wifi and the phone?
Jul 18 17:55:16 <jOERG_rw> be carefull not to lose them. 
Jul 18 17:55:18 <smooth_penguin> does it warm up etc?
Jul 18 17:55:22 <smooth_penguin> battery life?
Jul 18 17:56:28 <dtx> where is the Mic hole?
Jul 18 17:56:36 <DaveLab> joerg :D
Jul 18 17:56:42 <DaveLab> okay!
Jul 18 17:56:43 <mmontour> Near the "loop"
Jul 18 17:56:46 <DaveLab> sounds good
Jul 18 17:56:56 <dtx> inside the loop?
Jul 18 17:57:20 <sirex`> I just checked out and now emulating openmoko on my laptop. I did that using MokoMakefile. Bet emulated version doesn't look like on FreeRunner. What I'm doing wrong?
Jul 18 17:58:15 <sirex`> Also emulated openmoko doesn't work, it doesn't respond to my mouse clicks. Buttons highlights, bet nothing heppens.
Jul 18 17:58:15 <mmontour> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 has pictures. Mic position should be the same on the Freerunner
Jul 18 17:58:22 <Xaos> dang...I think I screwed up my gsmhandset.state file...anybody know a good place to get the default one?
Jul 18 17:58:56 <Xaos> sirex: you need to get a new image on it...look at the bottom of that wiki page
Jul 18 17:59:09 <Xaos> There's an entry I put there because I had the same issue
Jul 18 17:59:16 <MadTBone> Xaos: http://pastebin.com/m65d5e9fc
Jul 18 17:59:18 <sirex`> Xaos: ok, thanks.
Jul 18 17:59:35 <Xaos> Mad: Thanks!
Jul 18 17:59:51 <retracile> So I'm stuck on the openmoko splash screen, and can't turn the phone off... do I just yank the battery?
Jul 18 18:00:14 <MadTBone> retracile: yep
Jul 18 18:00:40 <mmontour> disconnect usb power and yank the battery
Jul 18 18:00:45 <Tsing1> you retract it.
Jul 18 18:00:48 <Xaos> either that or mail it to me and I'll fix it
Jul 18 18:00:50 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 18:01:15 <retracile> Xaos: It'll just take you a year or two, right? ;)
Jul 18 18:01:32 <Xaos> about that...yeah...how did YOU know?
Jul 18 18:01:54 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ra3fce657a797 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade splinter for bugfixes and animation changes as of Jeremy's request
Jul 18 18:01:55 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc1cee1022104 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade assasin to benefit from various bug fixes
Jul 18 18:03:29 <mmontour> kd8ikt: maybe add a comment to http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1352 about your headset problem
Jul 18 18:03:51 <rockstar> GPS is busticated...  :(
Jul 18 18:04:07 <alphaone> rockstar: ?
Jul 18 18:04:23 <Xaos> rockstar:  You used GPS to find Busts?"?
Jul 18 18:04:24 <Xaos> cool!
Jul 18 18:04:42 <Xaos> better than being masticated
Jul 18 18:05:10 <IguanaNed> anyone else have problem with sim card seating on FR?
Jul 18 18:06:13 <doc|work> IguanaNed: yep, the holder's a bit crap, you have to slot it into the metal thing and then push that down
Jul 18 18:06:16 <Xaos> Iguana: not since I actually looked at the pictures and realized I had it in the wrong way  ;-)
Jul 18 18:06:22 <doc|work> I don't know if it even clips
Jul 18 18:06:36 <Xaos> it doesn't clip...it slides to lock
Jul 18 18:07:13 <doc|work> didn't lock for me, but I didn't persist and haven't played with it seince
Jul 18 18:07:13 <Xaos> put SIM in with "notch" up...then fold down...then slide metal clip towards the GPS antenna/SD card
Jul 18 18:07:16 <doc|work> *since'
Jul 18 18:07:19 <IguanaNed> if it is picking up a network it must be in the right way correct?
Jul 18 18:07:24 <Xaos> yep
Jul 18 18:07:33 <Xaos> or you are REALLY lucky
Jul 18 18:07:35 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 18:07:46 <CM> Hmm.. How do you turn off the FSO or Moko Underground images
Jul 18 18:07:49 <IguanaNed> ah wellI get incoming calls bt no outgoing, someone suggested reseating sim
Jul 18 18:08:00 <CM> No menu item for it, and the buttons don't seem to work
Jul 18 18:08:13 <wcollins> i have 2 sims...reseating solved that problem for one, but not the other
Jul 18 18:08:23 <CM> (And no, I still haven't fixed ssh host via usb on my pc)
Jul 18 18:08:25 <mmontour> AIUI you should be able to pick up a network without a SIM (to make emergency calls)
Jul 18 18:08:26 <IguanaNed> ah ther ya are
Jul 18 18:08:27 <IguanaNed> he
Jul 18 18:09:03 <wcollins> i just tried a third sim...exactly the same problem if i just drop sim in and lock it down, no outgoing calls
Jul 18 18:09:07 <IguanaNed> rogers = 800 band right?
Jul 18 18:09:24 <IguanaNed> ah which way are u pushing it ?
Jul 18 18:09:24 <wcollins> if i push it slightly to the center as i lock it down all is fine.
Jul 18 18:09:35 <wcollins> all of them are Rogers(Toronto)
Jul 18 18:10:33 <wcollins> on the metal tab are labels "open" near the edge and "lock" near center. I push towards lock.
Jul 18 18:10:59 <IguanaNed> ah i see what u mean
Jul 18 18:11:25 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rcb179f53e15b 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade splinter for bugfixes and animation changes as of Jeremy's request
Jul 18 18:11:25 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * raba9834dfe1c 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade assasin to benefit from various bug fixes
Jul 18 18:11:29 <IguanaNed> my sim can actually move around when it is  locked down
Jul 18 18:11:43 <wcollins> looking at the sims, the one that doesn't work has 2 small indentations on short edge. other 2 are smooth.
Jul 18 18:12:00 <IguanaNed> ah mine has indents too
Jul 18 18:12:02 <IguanaNed> damn
Jul 18 18:12:03 <wcollins> yikes...that can't be good.
Jul 18 18:12:28 <wcollins> call Rogers and claim you lost it. :-)
Jul 18 18:12:38 <IguanaNed> ;) me thought exactly
Jul 18 18:12:48 <MadTBone> specifically, what does "turn off/on wifi" from the power menu execute?  Does it run a script?  Or is it working through DBUS?
Jul 18 18:13:20 <MadTBone> or does it just do an ifup eth0?
Jul 18 18:13:39 <IguanaNed> hi ho hi off to rogers I go
Jul 18 18:13:51 <wcollins> I'm just getting a new 4th SIM activated to replace the one that doesn't work...I'll email you if there's a problem with it.
Jul 18 18:14:14 <IguanaNed> thx
Jul 18 18:14:24 <IguanaNed> back in a bit
Jul 18 18:18:38 <sirex`> Can any on tell me if I can use Neo Freerunner as my primary mobile phone or Neo for now is just a toy?
Jul 18 18:19:26 <mjr> Can, yes. Want to, depends. 
Jul 18 18:19:28 <doc|work> this bloke on the community list complaining about camera support, is it wrong that I want to respond with "compile it in yourself"?
Jul 18 18:19:53 <doc|work> mjr: with which image?
Jul 18 18:20:00 <ecraven> sirex`: i wouldn't switch yet, but in a month or two, it might be stable enough
Jul 18 18:20:06 <mjr> "pick one"
Jul 18 18:20:55 <doc|work> mjr: asu kinda sucks still :/
Jul 18 18:21:09 <doc|work> have to try more recent gtk image
Jul 18 18:22:31 <vpv> There probably isn't that much 2007.2 development anymore, I guess it's just a matter of waiting for ASU to develop or taking part in the development...
Jul 18 18:22:34 <dtx> ok so I tried arecord after killing pulse audio
Jul 18 18:22:39 <dtx> but it tries to record from dmix
Jul 18 18:22:40 <mjr> yes well that's what I use
Jul 18 18:22:52 <mjr> vpv, ...SHM
Jul 18 18:22:56 <ecraven> isn't it going to be FSO?
Jul 18 18:23:32 <Gnutoo> doc|work, camera would have been nice with ekiga...so you could have made sip phone calls with video(need a headset) but i think it's for gta03, and i don't know how many time i would have to wait to be able to buy the phone...so instead of buying gta03 or 04 i buy 02
Jul 18 18:23:40 <Gnutoo> s/i buy/i plan to buy
Jul 18 18:23:47 <vpv> mjr: right, there's that too, but has there even been any images yet to try?
Jul 18 18:24:15 <mjr> no, but were I motivated, I'd work on that. Now, I'm more waiting for that ;]
Jul 18 18:24:19 <Gnutoo> doc|work, but mabe there is a solution...an usb camera...how compact can it be?
Jul 18 18:24:58 <doc|work> Gnutoo: sure, but my point wasn't that, mine was "you have a phone where you *can* recompile the base code for it, you should do so"
Jul 18 18:27:05 <Gnutoo> doc|work, i did it with oe but i don't have the phone yet(gta01-qemu target)...i'll wait a little bit for confirming my order(because of the hardware issues) i hope they will fix the 2 phones issues soon (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1376 and http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1415) 
Jul 18 18:27:31 <Chocky> moose
Jul 18 18:27:39 <Chocky> and let stomach out.  investor has gone.
Jul 18 18:29:10 <dtx> I'm pretty sure this is a hardware fault here
Jul 18 18:29:18 <dtx> It sounds muffled though
Jul 18 18:29:26 <dtx> The noise is amplified plenty
Jul 18 18:29:32 <dtx> but the voice is extremely quiet
Jul 18 18:29:49 <dtx> I wonder if the mic hole is formed correctly
Jul 18 18:32:28 <jOERG_rw> Gnutoo: #1376 is on gta01 mainly. never confirmed to be an issue for 02. may be fixed by sw anyway
Jul 18 18:34:01 <SpeedEvil> !bug 1376
Jul 18 18:35:35 <TAsn> when will they incorporate the hw gps fix?
Jul 18 18:35:45 <retracile> Sanity check: Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image*.rootfs.jffs2  is the ASU, right?
Jul 18 18:36:08 <Xaos> yes.. ASU = qtopia-x11
Jul 18 18:36:36 <retracile> and the -devel rootfs is, which?
Jul 18 18:36:47 <Ainulindale> OM2007.2
Jul 18 18:36:50 <Xaos> ok...found the ringtones (/usr/share/openmoko/sounds) now...how do I make one the default?
Jul 18 18:37:00 <Xaos> -devel is standard GTK image
Jul 18 18:37:26 <TAsn> Xaos, i guess you can do a hack
Jul 18 18:37:37 <TAsn> and symlink to the one of your choice
Jul 18 18:37:38 <TAsn> :)
Jul 18 18:37:49 <Xaos> what do I need to symlink it to?
Jul 18 18:38:12 <Xaos> what's the filename it wants to be the ringtone?
Jul 18 18:38:23 <TAsn> the one you want to be the default.
Jul 18 18:38:36 <TAsn> i mean, you said you found where the ringtone is at
Jul 18 18:38:37 <Xaos> yes...but what is the name of the symlink?
Jul 18 18:38:47 <TAsn> dunno, you said you found it :)
Jul 18 18:38:55 <Xaos> I found where several ringtones are...not the DEFAULT one
Jul 18 18:39:06 <TAsn> Xaos, just play them one by one
Jul 18 18:39:11 <Xaos> I am...
Jul 18 18:39:13 <TAsn> and check who is the default.
Jul 18 18:39:18 <TAsn> ok.
Jul 18 18:39:33 <Xaos> my question is...is there already a symlink that is pointing to the default file?
Jul 18 18:39:37 <Xaos> where is THAT symlink?
Jul 18 18:39:47 <retracile> Ainulindale: thanks... the TLAs are making my head spin
Jul 18 18:39:55 <TAsn> Xaos, i do not know, that's what i said, im suggesting a hack
Jul 18 18:40:03 <Ainulindale> retracile: :-)
Jul 18 18:40:38 <Gnutoo> jOERG_rw, ah ok...as software you mean userspace or firmware? but sometimes gta02 misses calls no?
Jul 18 18:40:53 <TAsn> find the default ringtone, rename it, make a symlink with it's prev name to you ringtone, and that's it.
Jul 18 18:43:01 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * ra77c8230eb6c 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py: ogpsd: rename interface to org.freesmartphone.GPS
Jul 18 18:43:02 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * ra30695b32423 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: control ogpsd via ousaged
Jul 18 18:46:41 <fsp> hi there
Jul 18 18:47:34 <Sjano> hello
Jul 18 18:48:42 <Sjano> is the openmoko screen 43mm x 58mm?
Jul 18 18:49:19 <Stroller> w000 h000!
Jul 18 18:49:22 <Stroller> My monitor lives!
Jul 18 18:49:28 * Stroller does a jig
Jul 18 18:49:38 <Sjano> hehe, congratulations
Jul 18 18:50:59 * fsp is looking for a ruler
Jul 18 18:51:05 <Stroller> Sjano: Openmoko is the software
Jul 18 18:51:14 <Stroller> Freerunner is the hardware
Jul 18 18:51:31 <Stroller> That size is what http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner agrees with
Jul 18 18:53:05 <fsp> anybody interested in helping me to find out why my freerunner won't connect to the gsm network?
Jul 18 18:55:33 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rafbe6af47738 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
Jul 18 18:55:33 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Implement Gypsy DBUS Signals and Methods
Jul 18 18:55:33 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: Accuracy, Position
Jul 18 18:55:33 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: There's also org.freesmartphone.GPS.{GetTime,TimeChanged} as
Jul 18 18:55:33 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: Gypsy doesn't seem to provide any appropriate interface
Jul 18 18:55:53 <Stroller> You just get "Registering..." on the Home screen, fsp ?
Jul 18 18:56:29 <fsp> that's correct
Jul 18 18:56:30 <Sjano> hmmmm.... thanks... hehe
Jul 18 18:56:54 <Xaos> fsp: first, is your SIM card inserted in the right way?
Jul 18 18:56:58 <Stroller> fsp: have you got the SIM in th...
Jul 18 18:57:00 <Stroller> What he said
Jul 18 18:57:07 <sirex`> Heh, there is no Esc key in openmoko keypad... :/
Jul 18 18:57:14 <Xaos> the notched corner should be up when you slide it in the slot
Jul 18 18:57:20 <sirex`> How do I exit from vi ???
Jul 18 18:57:41 <Xaos> sirex: that's why you install matchbox keyboard
Jul 18 18:57:41 <Chocky> !!!
Jul 18 18:57:41 <fsp> yes Xaos it's cutted corner is towards the antenna jack and the contacts are facing downwards
Jul 18 18:57:42 <Chocky> :q!
Jul 18 18:57:42 <dlowe> sirex`: ZZ
Jul 18 18:57:57 <Xaos> fsp: ok...next, take out your SIM and look at it...
Jul 18 18:58:00 <Stroller> sirex`: you mean "how do I exit vi's edit mode without an escape key?"
Jul 18 18:58:01 <fsp> sirex, use ":q"
Jul 18 18:58:22 <fsp> Xaos, wait a sec, have to shut the device down
Jul 18 18:58:33 <Xaos> np...
Jul 18 18:58:38 <kd8ikt> landscape mode my touchpad is miscalibrated
Jul 18 18:58:39 <Chocky> ctrl-z, read vi man page, fg, exit vi
Jul 18 18:58:40 <sirex`> Stroller: yes, I mean that..
Jul 18 18:59:11 <sirex`> Chocky: openmoko keypad doesn't has Ctrl key too.. :)
Jul 18 18:59:24 <Chocky> moral: don't use vi
Jul 18 18:59:27 <Chocky> opkg install nano
Jul 18 18:59:28 <Stroller> sirex`: you can't with the default keyboard. You need to install a different one. Google "install matchbox keyboard freerunner"
Jul 18 18:59:31 <Xaos> sirex: do you have ssh access yet?
Jul 18 18:59:34 <fsp> Xaos, sim lies in front of my eyes :)
Jul 18 18:59:44 <kd8ikt> o insap-icotalled the qwerty keyboard
Jul 18 18:59:44 <Chocky> fsp: how can you see? ;p
Jul 18 18:59:52 <mjr> the sim is a lie!
Jul 18 18:59:55 <kd8ikt> though finger use is out of the question
Jul 18 18:59:58 <Xaos> fsp: ok...do you see the 5 digit SKU number and/or the 4 digit vendor/version number
Jul 18 19:00:11 <sirex`> Stroller: thanks. Xaos: I just launched emulator, just looking...
Jul 18 19:00:25 <Xaos> fsp: the first thing you need to do is realize...THERE IS NO SIM!
Jul 18 19:00:31 <Xaos> sorry...couldn't resist
Jul 18 19:00:32 * Chocky laffs
Jul 18 19:00:44 <fsp> huh?
Jul 18 19:00:52 <Xaos> fsp: do you see any 4 or 5 digit numbers on your SIM?
Jul 18 19:01:17 <fsp> missed that, i think :) ya, there are different numbers on that card
Jul 18 19:01:17 <Sjano> is the software complete? so an end user could use it?
Jul 18 19:01:20 <Xaos> not the really long one...but just 4 or 5 digits?
Jul 18 19:01:34 <fsp> vendor # is maybe G0172?
Jul 18 19:01:36 <Stroller> Sjano: not really
Jul 18 19:01:36 <Xaos> give me the 4 and/or 5 digit numbers you see (again...not the long one)
Jul 18 19:01:39 <donomo> Sjano: not really
Jul 18 19:01:57 <fsp> 2065  is another one Xaos 
Jul 18 19:02:09 <Xaos> fsp: hmm...that's not on the list...
Jul 18 19:02:14 <Xaos> fsp...let's take a step back
Jul 18 19:02:25 <Xaos> then a step forward...now we're cha-cha'ing
Jul 18 19:02:32 <Xaos> (BONUS if you can name the movie)
Jul 18 19:02:35 <fsp> shiny :D
Jul 18 19:02:36 <Chocky> just a step to the left.  and a jump to the right
Jul 18 19:02:42 <donomo> its the freerunner two-step!
Jul 18 19:02:42 <Chocky> let's do the timewarp again.
Jul 18 19:02:58 <fsp> no clue about that movie, give me a hint
Jul 18 19:03:02 <Xaos> fsp: what type of card do you have...does it have "3G" on it?  is it AT&T?
Jul 18 19:03:11 <Xaos> Chocky: FAIL!!!
Jul 18 19:03:19 <Xaos> Val Kilmer was in the movie...
Jul 18 19:03:22 <fsp> nope, it's a vodafone (none-3G)
Jul 18 19:03:32 * Chocky fails.
Jul 18 19:03:36 <fsp> uh, was it Top secret?
Jul 18 19:03:49 <Xaos> fsp: oh...sorry...can only help if it was a 3G one...that was the problem I had
Jul 18 19:03:56 <Chocky> anyway, I wasn't trying to name that movie
Jul 18 19:03:59 <Xaos> fsp: nope...but close...REAL GENIUS!
Jul 18 19:04:08 * Chocky _Was_ about to guess RG however
Jul 18 19:04:09 * fsp is sad :( fails in all disciplines
Jul 18 19:04:12 <Xaos> Chocky..I know...but I still liked to say Chocky: FAIL!!!
Jul 18 19:04:14 <Chocky> Xaos gave answer too fast
Jul 18 19:04:41 <Xaos> fsp: here's the bug I've seen and fixed by getting a new SIM:  http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666
Jul 18 19:04:46 <Xaos> it might help you too...
Jul 18 19:04:49 <Chocky> but I don't reall the cha cha bit in the movie.
Jul 18 19:05:14 <fsp> gnarf, new SIM is uncool :/
Jul 18 19:05:26 <Stroller> Bug #666 - Satan's SIM
Jul 18 19:05:31 <Xaos> it's when Mitch is stressed out and Chris says "let's take a step back from our problem for a minute"...right before the big beach party scene
Jul 18 19:05:38 <Chocky> ah right.
Jul 18 19:05:49 <Chocky> for values of "beach"
Jul 18 19:05:50 <ecraven> has anyone found a holder for the FR, to put it into your car as a navigation system?
Jul 18 19:05:51 <Xaos> fsp: you may not need a new sim...your problem sounds different
Jul 18 19:06:02 <Chocky> duct tape
Jul 18 19:06:09 <Xaos> ecraven: Styrofoam cup?
Jul 18 19:06:22 <almien> ecraven: there are some generic ones if you search for "PDA holder"
Jul 18 19:06:25 <Xaos> Velcro on back of FR and on dash?
Jul 18 19:06:31 <almien> I was looking for a bike mount for it
Jul 18 19:06:48 <Xaos> I don't think a bike will fit on my neo...
Jul 18 19:07:08 <fsp> think so, read only successful reports from people using the same provider like me
Jul 18 19:10:25 * fsp will try out that AT thingy a little bit...
Jul 18 19:10:40 <linuxxr> # gconftool-2 --type bool --set /desktop/poky/interface/reduced true
Jul 18 19:10:56 <linuxxr> i guess mine came shiped this way
Jul 18 19:11:06 <fsp> mine too, linuxxr 
Jul 18 19:11:06 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rfdafe393237a 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Disable sending of time messages and only request them on demand
Jul 18 19:11:06 <linuxxr> to save power i guess
Jul 18 19:12:29 <openbooger> anyone know how to import contacts into the qtopia image?
Jul 18 19:12:54 <openbooger> read a forum post that you have to import evolution contacts db but I can't find where to put that db file
Jul 18 19:13:27 <fsp> wish I was as far as openbooger 
Jul 18 19:14:08 <kd8ikt> any1 have ipv6 connectivity?
Jul 18 19:14:39 <ecraven> hm.. all the universal pda holders seem cheap and broken ;(
Jul 18 19:15:13 <CIA-46> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r94339bbd6779 10/src/zhone: show GPS data on the location page
Jul 18 19:15:39 <kd8ikt> ping6 2001:470:1f11:c7:212:cfff:fe8f:347b   <-- my moko ;)
Jul 18 19:16:28 <kd8ikt> and no the passwd isnt hard return
Jul 18 19:16:32 <kd8ikt> :P
Jul 18 19:17:10 <linuxxr> ifup eth0
Jul 18 19:17:15 <openbooger> fsp, what? as far as? 
Jul 18 19:17:18 <ecraven> are there adapters for car cigarette heater -> mini usb that i can use for the neo in a car?
Jul 18 19:17:19 <linuxxr>    cant make a 0
Jul 18 19:17:39 <openbooger> ecraven, most probably. I know motorola made them
Jul 18 19:17:44 <linuxxr> o
Jul 18 19:17:48 <linuxxr> ic
Jul 18 19:18:02 <fsp> my freerunner won't connet to the mobile net openbooger :(
Jul 18 19:18:13 <kd8ikt> i cant believe a lot of new phones still have propreitary cables
Jul 18 19:18:22 <openbooger> ah
Jul 18 19:18:27 <linuxxr> no lease failing
Jul 18 19:18:37 <kd8ikt> and they charge like 30+$ for a usb to whatever 
Jul 18 19:18:44 <Chocky> I can.  extra $$$ for manufacturer
Jul 18 19:18:49 <openbooger> kd8ikt, they needs your moneys
Jul 18 19:18:51 <linuxxr> operator malfunction
Jul 18 19:18:56 <Chocky> iRipOff
Jul 18 19:19:13 <Chocky> I think Razor is a standard mini-A though
Jul 18 19:19:17 <kd8ikt> its bs
Jul 18 19:19:28 <Chocky> so don't buy those phones :p
Jul 18 19:19:34 * kd8ikt wont
Jul 18 19:19:43 <Chocky> nor won't
Jul 18 19:19:50 <linuxxr> says registering at the top
Jul 18 19:19:52 <kd8ikt> i'm so glad i dont have to carry that nokia in my pocket anylonger
Jul 18 19:20:02 <linuxxr> is that because theres no sim?
Jul 18 19:20:06 <fuzzyt> anyone find a good belt case for the freerunner?
Jul 18 19:20:15 <kd8ikt> heh a fag bag
Jul 18 19:20:20 <fuzzyt> yup
Jul 18 19:20:22 <fuzzyt> ;)
Jul 18 19:20:24 <linuxxr> an i didnt get a lanyard
Jul 18 19:20:30 <fsp> nope fuzzyt, not that simple :)
Jul 18 19:20:40 <kd8ikt> yeah i thought they came with lanyards
Jul 18 19:20:44 <kd8ikt> mine didnt
Jul 18 19:21:36 <linuxxr> so any pay as u go phone sin will work?
Jul 18 19:21:46 <linuxxr> &sim
Jul 18 19:22:09 <Xaos> linuxxr: didn't you PAY for your neo?  Well...there you GO.
Jul 18 19:22:10 <kd8ikt> dont have gsm access yet?
Jul 18 19:22:12 <fsp> no, it's a contracted none-3g SIM
Jul 18 19:22:22 <kd8ikt> yike no kidding Xaos 
Jul 18 19:22:22 <doc|work> linuxxr: I don't think anyone did
Jul 18 19:23:32 <openbooger> so no one knows how to import contacts into the qtopia image?
Jul 18 19:24:31 <Xaos> has anyone successfully gotten a bluetooth headset to work with the GTK image? not stereo headsets...just the standard phone ones
Jul 18 19:24:43 <kd8ikt> didnt someone say use evolution import?
Jul 18 19:24:46 <kd8ikt> openbooger: 
Jul 18 19:25:17 <openbooger> kd8ikt? how would I do that?
Jul 18 19:25:29 <openbooger> i have the addressbook.db on my laptop in evolution
Jul 18 19:25:47 <openbooger> where does that go on the neo?
Jul 18 19:26:04 <kd8ikt> age you are using.  If you are using the qtopia image, I think
Jul 18 19:26:04 <kd8ikt> you need to get the contacts into qtopia image somehow.  I think the
Jul 18 19:26:07 <doc|work> man, whoever's watching sales@openmoko needs a kick in the arse
Jul 18 19:26:15 <kd8ikt> http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td220167
Jul 18 19:26:21 <kd8ikt> whoopz sorry for the paste
Jul 18 19:27:03 <kd8ikt> so has anyone ping6'd my moko?
Jul 18 19:28:47 <openbooger> kd8ikt, yeah i saw that url, but i do'nt know where the addressbook.db goes
Jul 18 19:29:25 <kd8ikt> home/root?
Jul 18 19:29:42 <kd8ikt> somewhere in there look at the hidden files
Jul 18 19:30:04 <kd8ikt> hint /home/root/.evolution
Jul 18 19:31:07 <fsp> alright, libgsmd-tool reports CME ERROR: 13  "SIM failure". Guess I have to try it with another SIM card
Jul 18 19:31:19 <openbooger> kd8ikt, don't have that, should I make it?
Jul 18 19:32:22 <doc|work> are class 6 microsd cards as fast as class 6 sd cards?
Jul 18 19:32:54 <retracile> doc|work: I was assuming so...
Jul 18 19:33:07 <doc|work> ok, cool
Jul 18 19:33:24 <mmontour> Should be. The "class" is the rated sustained write speed in MB/s
Jul 18 19:33:39 <erwin_> Hi, I just received my FreeRunner and after boot, I don't get Today page but juste the wallpaper. Is it normal ?
Jul 18 19:33:43 <kd8ikt> i couldnt tell ya openbooger , i havent used qtopia and my contacts were saved to sim and the moko os picks em up just fine
Jul 18 19:33:47 <doc|work> erwin_: yep
Jul 18 19:33:53 <retracile> Fry's has a 4GB uSDHC class 6 for $20 here
Jul 18 19:33:57 <doc|work> erwin_: you should look at the getting started page on the wiki
Jul 18 19:34:02 <openbooger> kd8ikt, yeah, i can't fit all mine on the SIM
Jul 18 19:34:11 <kd8ikt> well arent we popular
Jul 18 19:34:16 <openbooger> haha
Jul 18 19:34:19 <mmontour> doc|work: I bought one of those 4G cards that are on sale at ncix. I'll try it in my gta01 tonight.
Jul 18 19:34:30 <doc|work> retracile: yeah, found similar here, only I'm thinking I'll go with the 8gb
Jul 18 19:34:34 <doc|work> mmontour: nice :)
Jul 18 19:34:39 <erwin_> doc|work: i'm on it : The first thing after you boot Openmoko should be the "Today" page
Jul 18 19:34:45 <doc|work> mmontour: thinking I'll go shopping tonight :)
Jul 18 19:34:47 <retracile> doc|work: 8gb class 6?
Jul 18 19:34:57 <doc|work> get the 8gb one and they have 640gb hard disks for a decent price
Jul 18 19:35:00 <doc|work> retracile: yep
Jul 18 19:35:13 <doc|work> retracile: no, sorry, 4gb
Jul 18 19:35:30 <retracile> doc|work: aw, you got my hopes up.
Jul 18 19:36:12 <doc|work> retracile: hehe
Jul 18 19:36:22 <doc|work> retracile: they have 8gb class six for $40
Jul 18 19:36:30 <doc|work> think I'll get one of those
Jul 18 19:37:34 <mmontour> doc|work: where did you find the 8G class6 microSD? I've only seen ones that meet 2 of those 3 conditions
Jul 18 19:38:26 <doc|work> mmontour: patriot one on ncix site, sku 29938
Jul 18 19:38:50 <retracile> doc|work: linky?
Jul 18 19:39:13 <kelvie_work> retracile: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=29938&vpn=PSF8GMSDHC6&manufacture=Patriot
Jul 18 19:39:21 <mmontour> That's mini, not micro
Jul 18 19:39:35 <kelvie_work> ah, so it is :P
Jul 18 19:39:47 <kelvie_work> I've only been able to find class 4 8gb ones
Jul 18 19:40:20 <mmontour> I don't think there will be much gain from a class6 when it's sitting behind the glamo.
Jul 18 19:41:21 <Xaos> retracile: are those SanDisks?
Jul 18 19:41:44 <retracile> Xaos: no, uh, patriot, I believe.
Jul 18 19:41:53 <retracile> Xaos: it's in their Friday ad.
Jul 18 19:41:57 <openbooger> so what's up with the glamo, will we ever be able to play video reasonably or is it a problem we'll just have to live with
Jul 18 19:42:03 <mmontour> Some performance measurements for a Sandisk 8G: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021270.html
Jul 18 19:42:40 <Xaos> retracile: cool I'll stop by on my way home and look at them.  I work real close to the Fry's in Irving
Jul 18 19:42:51 <doc|work> mmontour: oh, arse, they won't fit then :/
Jul 18 19:42:57 <retracile> Xaos: that can be dangerous ya know. ;)
Jul 18 19:43:20 <doc|work> ok, 4gb it is
Jul 18 19:43:35 <DaveLab> :p
Jul 18 19:43:37 <bricode> mmontour: Class 4 and 6 won't make a difference if you can only push ~3MB/sec on there.
Jul 18 19:43:43 <almien__> anyone get text-screen on opkg-upgrade, with "*** in function ecore_event-hanler_del() Input handle pointer is NULL" followed by angstrom help screen?
Jul 18 19:43:49 <Gnutoo> openbooger, ah there is a problem with the glamo? ouch... is it because it's on the same bus than gps and sd? will it afect the capacity of rotating the screen?
Jul 18 19:43:58 <almien__> no way out except reboot
Jul 18 19:44:46 <newb> Xaos: awake? :)
Jul 18 19:45:10 <openbooger> Gnutoo: i've heard there's bandwidth issues
Jul 18 19:45:18 <lpotter> almien__: qtopia 4.4 has screen rotation, it works ok
Jul 18 19:45:33 <newb> Xaos: i really need to figure out a solution to the poor audio quality :( I think i'll try a Blutoot handsfree
Jul 18 19:45:36 <Gnutoo> openbooger, ah...mabe i should look at the mailing-list if i find something...
Jul 18 19:45:56 <newb> Xaos: maybe i need to put on the Wiki the exact Alsa mixer settings which work
Jul 18 19:45:59 <openbooger> Gnutoo, i'm sure you will
Jul 18 19:46:02 <toggles_w> almien__: i did
Jul 18 19:46:04 <bricode> openbooger: Apparently the Glamo is on the SD bus, so is in contention when readin/writing to SD.
Jul 18 19:46:20 <kd8ikt> heh my grandma loves bocelli
Jul 18 19:46:23 <mjr> the glamo _is_ the sd controller
Jul 18 19:46:23 <toggles_w> almien__: i reflashed a new image from last night, it worked
Jul 18 19:46:29 <openbooger> ahh, that makes sense. and doesn't.
Jul 18 19:46:38 <kd8ikt> i thought the glamo was the vid chip
Jul 18 19:46:39 <almien__> oh. so just replace everything then, toggles_w?
Jul 18 19:46:42 <mjr> kd8ikt, that too
Jul 18 19:46:53 <bricode> mjr: Ah. Right. 
Jul 18 19:46:56 <kd8ikt> hm
Jul 18 19:47:03 * almien__ didn't flash anything yet, just been using okpg
Jul 18 19:47:12 <toggles_w> almien__: actually,this was on sd, but yes
Jul 18 19:47:18 <mjr> anyway yeah, class 6 microsd not a big priority for the freerunner
Jul 18 19:47:46 <almien__> oh. not been using SD since I use GPS
Jul 18 19:47:57 <DaveLab> man, the soldering job looks like ass
Jul 18 19:48:09 <kd8ikt> almien__: theres an updated kernel that fixed that
Jul 18 19:48:19 * kd8ikt uses both GPS and sd
Jul 18 19:48:23 <newb> Xaos: on Qtopia my friend claimed he could faintly hear my voice
Jul 18 19:48:32 <mjr> openbooger, as for video playback, there's certainly potential: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/
Jul 18 19:48:40 <newb> Xaos: even after i turned up the volume on full from the settings panel
Jul 18 19:49:04 <Xaos> newb: sorry...was away...I think I got my sound working on the mic
Jul 18 19:49:05 <DaveLab> oh yeah?
Jul 18 19:49:14 <mjr> it's all very kludgy, but there's at least preliminary working code
Jul 18 19:49:17 <Xaos> hang on a sec and I'll look over what I did
Jul 18 19:49:20 <jOERG_rw> DaveLab: don't consider to do it (soldering) if you're not used to it!!!
Jul 18 19:49:51 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: err what should we do then ?
Jul 18 19:50:03 <Ainulindale> Do you have plans on some kind of program with resellers and such ?
Jul 18 19:50:12 <DaveLab> Joerg, I am :)
Jul 18 19:50:16 <Ainulindale> Or people able to do that in each country ?
Jul 18 19:50:19 <Ainulindale> (I'm just curious)
Jul 18 19:50:25 <Ainulindale> (I'm not use to solder things)
Jul 18 19:50:32 <Ainulindale> +d
Jul 18 19:50:46 <jOERG_rw> Ainulindale: wait for some instructions from your reseller, I'd suggest
Jul 18 19:50:50 <Xaos> newb: where's a good place in the wiki to put this? (mic volume)
Jul 18 19:50:51 <DaveLab> Did ten year old kids from china solder these leads?
Jul 18 19:51:06 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: ok I'll ask them then :-)
Jul 18 19:51:12 <Xaos> ok...give me a sec and I'll add something to here: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Adjusting_the_Volume
Jul 18 19:51:22 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: oh and by the way, no new information on sound problems ? (low voice, low mic)
Jul 18 19:51:31 <jOERG_rw> DaveLab: nah, machines did it
Jul 18 19:51:57 <jOERG_rw> Ainulindale: nope. visit taipei to takle that next week
Jul 18 19:52:10 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: it's an order or a description of what you'll do ? :-)
Jul 18 19:52:25 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: nice to know then
Jul 18 19:52:27 <jOERG_rw> lol! descriptionn
Jul 18 19:52:38 <Ainulindale> It's not that big a deal but it's pretty annoying at times
Jul 18 19:52:45 <Ainulindale> What's weird is that it depends on people I call
Jul 18 19:52:53 <Ainulindale> (Or places I'm in)
Jul 18 19:52:55 <jOERG_rw> **I know***
Jul 18 19:53:00 <Ainulindale> (I suppose it has to do with sensibility/reception)
Jul 18 19:53:10 <DaveLab> haha
Jul 18 19:53:16 <jOERG_rw> the later
Jul 18 19:53:19 <DaveLab> rut roh
Jul 18 19:53:30 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: But I'm sure you know more about that than I do
Jul 18 19:53:37 <Ainulindale> And I have some SHR work to do :-p
Jul 18 19:53:45 <almien__> kd8ikt: how do you get updated kernel? by flashing?
Jul 18 19:53:49 <jOERG_rw> sometimes think I know nuttin
Jul 18 19:54:06 <rockstar> What image has the current development focus
Jul 18 19:54:15 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: Oh, that's what I said, I was being ironic
Jul 18 19:54:16 <Ainulindale> :->
Jul 18 19:54:30 <jOERG_rw> Ainulindale: but yeah, thats another *real* nasty one
Jul 18 19:54:41 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: you mean the problem ?
Jul 18 19:54:50 <newb> Xaos: i think we'll create a category under telephony
Jul 18 19:54:52 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: Seriously, I had just two problems, the GPS one and that one
Jul 18 19:55:00 <Ainulindale> If they're both solved, I'm the happiest guy in the world
Jul 18 19:55:41 <jOERG_rw> GSM-noise is harder to fix than GPS issue
Jul 18 19:55:51 <Ainulindale> Why is that ?
Jul 18 19:55:54 <Ainulindale> Is it still hardware ?
Jul 18 19:56:34 <Xaos> ack!  I cannot edit the wiki pages...I keep getting MySQL errors
Jul 18 19:56:44 <jOERG_rw> Ainulindale: we're still investigating and researching. But EMI may come by many ways
Jul 18 19:56:45 <DaveLab> :x
Jul 18 19:57:07 <Xaos> Someone needs to repair the MySQL table "searchindex" on the wiki ASAP!!!
Jul 18 19:57:10 <malik1972> ainulindale: i tried andys kernel and now i got gps fixes without an external anntenna
Jul 18 19:57:10 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: I understand, but I do hope you'll find :-)
Jul 18 19:57:18 <jOERG_rw> Ainulindale: only success if you block all of them same time
Jul 18 19:57:26 <Ainulindale> malik1972: it's been two days I used andy's kernel ;-)
Jul 18 19:57:30 <DaveLab> it sucks
Jul 18 19:57:31 <DaveLab> who cares
Jul 18 19:57:32 <mmontour> jOERG_rw: a comment on http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/883 claims that removing the SD card also helped the GSM problem. 
Jul 18 19:57:44 <Ainulindale> jOERG_rw: them what ?
Jul 18 19:58:16 <Xaos> ok..so I don't lose it, here's how to adjust your microphone volume 
Jul 18 19:58:16 <Xaos> # ssh into your Freerunner
Jul 18 19:58:16 <Xaos> # vi /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/gsmhandset.state
Jul 18 19:58:16 <Xaos> # search for "Mic2"
Jul 18 19:58:16 <Xaos> # change to "value 3"
Jul 18 19:58:33 <malik1972> ainlindale: no luck?
Jul 18 19:58:34 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: seems to be a bogus report
Jul 18 19:58:54 <mmontour> It seemed strange to me
Jul 18 19:59:00 <Ainulindale> Why would it be bogus ?
Jul 18 19:59:28 <newb> Xaos: sorry i went offline for a while. i missed anything u said?
Jul 18 19:59:29 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: very strange. seems he mixed up sth... :-/ ???
Jul 18 20:00:00 <mmontour> OTOH I wouldn't have guessed that SD could interfere with GPS either. 
Jul 18 20:00:28 <mmontour> Maybe SD interference = lower S/N received by the Calypso = it boosts its Tx power? Pure speculation.
Jul 18 20:00:53 <DaveLab> what device is the sd card?
Jul 18 20:00:57 <Xaos> newb: One way to increase the volume of the microphone is to do the following:
Jul 18 20:00:57 <Xaos> # ssh into your Freerunner
Jul 18 20:00:57 <Xaos> # vi /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/gsmhandset.state
Jul 18 20:00:57 <Xaos> # search for "Mic2"
Jul 18 20:00:57 <Xaos> # change to "value 3"
Jul 18 20:01:03 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: we might check this anyway
Jul 18 20:01:40 <Stroller> Dave: df -h
Jul 18 20:01:58 <mmontour> Did anyone ever find a way to find out the transmit power level through the engineering-mode AT commands?
Jul 18 20:01:59 <jOERG_rw> DaveLab: `mount`
Jul 18 20:02:13 <newb> Xaos: ha!! why didn't i think of that! :( I'm too sleepy i should have opened those files earlier
Jul 18 20:02:25 <Xaos> hehe
Jul 18 20:02:27 <rockstar> What image has the current development focus?
Jul 18 20:02:28 <newb> Xaos: but really somewhere we need to explain what those files mean
Jul 18 20:02:32 <Xaos> yep
Jul 18 20:02:32 <mmontour> DaveLab: should show up as /dev/mmcblk0 (+ p1 etc. for partitions)
Jul 18 20:02:33 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: not yet (GRRRRRRRRRRR >:-(  )
Jul 18 20:03:19 <Xaos> I may try to see if there's a way to write a python script to do this through a gui...when I get the chance  ;-)
Jul 18 20:04:33 <malik1972> lpotter: ping
Jul 18 20:04:34 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: but we're pretty sure noise is a factor of  TX power
Jul 18 20:04:56 <newb> Xaos: good idea i would like to have a C GTK+ app doing it instead. it would load faster that way
Jul 18 20:04:59 <lpotter> malik1972: pong
Jul 18 20:05:05 <mmontour> I have a microwave-oven leakage detector that picks up a signal when I put it next to a transmitting Neo. It might be possible to take the diode out of it and glue it to the outside of the Neo case to get an analog indication of Tx power
Jul 18 20:05:13 <Xaos> newb: the issue I was having was that  I would make a change using alsamixer, but it would restore some other file befare I could save it.
Jul 18 20:05:25 <Xaos> newb: great idea...you do that!  ;-)
Jul 18 20:05:31 <mmontour> glued to the case so that the reading doesn't change as the phone is moved around
Jul 18 20:05:43 <MadTBone> gpsd complains about no /dev/ttyS3 ...  yet agpsui is working and reporting data...  how does agpsui talk to the gps radio?
Jul 18 20:05:44 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: already thought about that
Jul 18 20:05:46 <malik1972> lpotter: someone asks for a rootfs as a tgz file or is there a way for jffs2tgz conversion?
Jul 18 20:05:48 <newb> Xaos: hmmmm... ok i think i'll update the wiki
Jul 18 20:06:05 <newb> Xaos: but I need to make a call to figure out how well it's working whether it solves the issue :(
Jul 18 20:06:11 <Xaos> newb: I tried to...seems to have a corrupt MySQL table...no updates
Jul 18 20:06:13 <lpotter> malik1972: yes. and yes. :)
Jul 18 20:06:16 <malik1972> lpotter: thanx for the newest updates
Jul 18 20:06:17 <mmontour> MadTBone: should be /dev/ttySAC1 - edit the config file
Jul 18 20:06:20 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: however it doesn't help much, we already know it depends on TXpower
Jul 18 20:06:20 <Xaos> please do newb
Jul 18 20:06:34 <jtickle> so I just got mine, it's fancy and pretty and charged up, but I don't have a GSM plan for it yet (hoping to go to the store this evening)
Jul 18 20:06:36 <Xaos> and let me know if it is good solution for you...I haven't tested it very well yet
Jul 18 20:06:38 <malik1972> lpotter: can you explain the latter yes, is it complicated?
Jul 18 20:06:41 <jtickle> what fun things can I do with it for the time being?
Jul 18 20:06:42 <lpotter> malik1972: ya, that resume display was really bugging me
Jul 18 20:07:02 <newb> Xaos: the Airtel network is down in mumbai for the last 12 hours. i don't have an alternate connection from Vodafone. I have a CDMA phone for an alternate connection.
Jul 18 20:07:31 <Xaos> haha...isn't that always the luck?
Jul 18 20:07:38 <mmontour> jOERG_rw: I thought it would be a useful way to know what the Txpower was at any given time (since as you said the modem won't tell you thorugh software)
Jul 18 20:07:47 <Xaos> so...you in mumbai eh?  we have a lot of people over there as well
Jul 18 20:07:51 <malik1972> lpotter: that was not a really problem for me
Jul 18 20:08:14 <newb> Xaos: well.. it's pathetic. Airtel is supposed to b the best n/w here in India, the state of today's events have left me completely surprised. these guys don't even have a backup!
Jul 18 20:08:19 <malik1972> lpotter: can you bundle the rootfs for your the next upcoming update?
Jul 18 20:08:30 <DaveLab> haha crap
Jul 18 20:08:30 <newb> Xaos: apparently their NOC caught fire
Jul 18 20:08:37 <Xaos> ouch!
Jul 18 20:08:45 <DaveLab> so would I have to create the device myself now? ;)
Jul 18 20:08:45 <mmontour> jOERG_rw: actually for me (gta01) the GSM buzzing is tolerable. The big problem is the echo heard by the remote end.
Jul 18 20:08:48 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: yep. we make progress though. this detail is known by now.
Jul 18 20:08:56 <DaveLab> joerg, I inserted it after boot ;)
Jul 18 20:08:59 <lpotter> malik1972: like this http://pastebin.us/?show=m75db7bf5
Jul 18 20:09:22 <malik1972> lpotter: thanx
Jul 18 20:09:28 <lpotter> malik1972: I will make a rootfs + qtopia available for those that want to run it from sd
Jul 18 20:09:42 <MadTBone> mmontour: thanks
Jul 18 20:09:45 <jOERG_rw> DaveLab: never heard of someone inserting SDcard after boot. System will not notice it
Jul 18 20:10:18 <DaveLab> no kidding
Jul 18 20:10:24 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * race6e2159aa4 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade the kernel to latest stable
Jul 18 20:10:36 <DaveLab> Couldn't I manually add the device via some arduous manner? :D
Jul 18 20:10:38 <CIA-46> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r546271687e18 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade the kernel to latest stable
Jul 18 20:10:50 <DaveLab> or force udev
Jul 18 20:10:51 <newb> Xaos: now i'm terribly sleepy. I got the GPS working. Let's see how it works tomorrow on my trip
Jul 18 20:10:57 <jOERG_rw> mmontour: I'll evetually send some instructions to investigate that problem on GTA01
Jul 18 20:11:04 <newb> Xaos: gnite
Jul 18 20:11:07 * newb sleeps
Jul 18 20:11:15 <DaveLab> finally :P
Jul 18 20:11:23 * jOERG_rw goes having "lunch"
Jul 18 20:11:25 <mmontour> jOERG_rw: thanks
Jul 18 20:11:27 <malik1972> lpotter: thanx again, i like the direct connection to developers etc. if i would have a problem with windows mobile (no i dont have one) it woul take months
Jul 18 20:11:27 <DaveLab> ww okay
Jul 18 20:12:07 <Xaos> gnite newb
Jul 18 20:14:43 <MadTBone> how can I start an app (like tangogps) from ssh and get it to go to screen 0?
Jul 18 20:15:56 <retracile> MadTBone: try setting DISPLAY=:0
Jul 18 20:17:11 <MadTBone> retracile: thanks
Jul 18 20:19:44 <Silmarillion> wanting to try out the qtopia image I try to boot in NAND state... but when I choose console on USB it simple waits about 2 seconds at returns to the boot menu, I have the usb cable plugged in, but what do I have to do on the host machine?
Jul 18 20:22:25 <MadTBone> Silmarillion: read http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner
Jul 18 20:23:14 <MadTBone> how many freerunners were sold in total?
Jul 18 20:23:38 <Silmarillion> MadTBone: that's what I'm trying to do...
Jul 18 20:23:44 <doc|work> MadTBone: openmoko is a private company, I'm not expecting they'll tell us 
Jul 18 20:23:49 <Stroller> MadTBone: you're unlikely to learn that except under NDA
Jul 18 20:24:45 <doc|work> maybe they will, if the numbers are reasonably high, it could encourage competition from an open angle which could make more components available
Jul 18 20:25:51 <Stroller> someone worked out from the order numbers how many were being shipped in the first few days whilst the store was open.
Jul 18 20:26:04 <Stroller> Was it as many as 2000 per day those first couple of day?
Jul 18 20:26:10 <balrog-kun> iirc all that were available in usa and almost all of those that were available in europe so that must be some 2000
Jul 18 20:26:12 <Stroller> Or am I misremembering & it was 200?
Jul 18 20:27:04 <doc|work> Stroller: they were shipping about 1000 orders a day but an order could be one phone or it could be ten
Jul 18 20:27:17 <Stroller> Okies
Jul 18 20:27:42 <Stroller> But we can prolly assume the majority were single phones
Jul 18 20:27:57 <MadTBone> well...I'm just glad I go in early...
Jul 18 20:28:17 <MadTBone> s/go/got
Jul 18 20:28:23 <Stroller> Maybe we can guesstimate 4000 - 10000 Freerunners sold so far?
Jul 18 20:29:55 <MadTBone> Stroller: that's a pretty wide range...how does that compare to a normal commercial phone of similar specs (iPhone not considered)
Jul 18 20:30:56 <Stroller> MadTBone: it's an order  of magnitude range
Jul 18 20:31:09 <Stroller> MadTBone: 2,000 - 500,000 would be a wide range
Jul 18 20:31:37 <Stroller> 500,000, for instance, would have a MUCH different effect on the market
Jul 18 20:32:29 <Stroller> Motorola or Nokia, not sure which, sold 51.9 million mobile phones in the second quarter of 2006 , a 53% increase on the same period a year ago. 
Jul 18 20:32:40 <Stroller> This is the period of Razr release
Jul 18 20:33:05 <MadTBone> Stroller: right...but what portion of that was smartphone sales?
Jul 18 20:33:24 <Stroller> Hmmmn... now that's an interesting question
Jul 18 20:33:27 <MadTBone> Stroller: particularly those w/ wifi
Jul 18 20:33:53 <MadTBone> Stroller: I mean...it's a totally different target demographic
Jul 18 20:34:23 <Gnutoo> by the way does anyone tried the pda version of  battle for wesnoth? it requires a 320x240 screen and openmoko phones have 640x480 if you rotate the the screen....(i would like to try on qemu but as i didn't have usb networking working because of the power button that is not working i wasn't able to try)
Jul 18 20:34:25 <Stroller> Worldwide, the software giant sold over 11 million units of its Windows Mobile software in the fiscal year ending in June 2007
Jul 18 20:35:13 <Gnutoo> another good game would be wormux...but it's not in openembedded....but the screen seems ok,there is also pygame in openembedded
Jul 18 20:36:03 <MadTBone> Stroller: but that doesn't necessarily translate into 11M that got to end users...I assume that software gets "sold" to HTC et. al.
Jul 18 20:36:12 <carrar> w00t
Jul 18 20:36:14 <carrar> phone arrived
Jul 18 20:36:33 <Stroller> Well, again, it's not gong to be orders of magnitude wrong, is it. MadTBone ?
Jul 18 20:36:34 <CVirus> lucky you
Jul 18 20:36:42 <dtx> carrar: now call your voice mail box and then check your message and see if you are too quiet to hear it
Jul 18 20:36:43 <dtx> :-P
Jul 18 20:36:53 * Stroller huggles carrar 
Jul 18 20:37:04 <carrar> I need to figure out how to open it 1st to put the batter in :)
Jul 18 20:37:20 <dtx> carrar: pull back on that little slot with your finger nail
Jul 18 20:37:24 <MadTBone> Stroller: probably right
Jul 18 20:37:26 <Stroller> Like, blimey,  MadTBone! only 9M Windows Mobile smartphones were sold in 2007! 
Jul 18 20:37:31 <retracile> carrar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner
Jul 18 20:37:37 <Stroller> It's still 1000 times more than the Freerunner
Jul 18 20:37:42 <carrar> thanks
Jul 18 20:37:58 <retracile> carrar: read that... it'll help you avoid a number of pitfalls
Jul 18 20:42:13 <Avanc> Does anybody know how I get the "Enter/Return" key in the ASU (Illume) Keyboard?
Jul 18 20:42:25 <kd8ikt> omfg have you seen aslamixer? there is like 30 devices
Jul 18 20:43:54 <dtx> kd8ikt: Yeah I've unfortunately seen it
Jul 18 20:44:06 <dtx> Are people on the other side of the call unable to hear you also?
Jul 18 20:45:58 <kd8ikt> only when i use the headphones static goes up like 70%
Jul 18 20:46:03 <carrar> oh damn I have to charge it 1st!! :)
Jul 18 20:46:15 <kd8ikt> that would help carrar 
Jul 18 20:46:20 <carrar> I can charge it without the sim card in it right?
Jul 18 20:46:22 <mmontour> kd8ikt: not only that, many of the alsamixer names do not describe their actual function on the Neo (they're based on a reference implementation for the wm8753, not customized for the Neo)
Jul 18 20:46:35 <kd8ikt> super
Jul 18 20:47:02 <kd8ikt> cause it sounds like my left speaker is way to loud and the right is even on?
Jul 18 20:47:25 <retracile> carrar: yep
Jul 18 20:47:45 <mmontour> there is only 1 speaker (not counting the earpiece) in the Freerunner
Jul 18 20:48:13 <carrar> this phone feels good in the hand
Jul 18 20:48:21 <mmontour> 2 speaker holes in the case because it was re-used from the 1973
Jul 18 20:48:54 <kd8ikt> hey whats the alsamixer key for turning up right channel more,  q=left
Jul 18 20:49:24 <carrar> turns on as soon as I plugged the charge in
Jul 18 20:49:31 <mmontour> q/z for left, e/c for right
Jul 18 20:50:10 <kd8ikt> ok its e
Jul 18 20:50:57 <Xaos> if your microphone volume is too low, the wiki's been updated with a potential fix
Jul 18 20:51:56 <dtx> where Xaos?  link please
Jul 18 20:51:58 * kd8ikt 's freerunner is playing daftpunk-technologic
Jul 18 20:52:35 <Xaos> dtx: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Adjusting_the_Volume
Jul 18 20:53:50 <Stroller> Blimey, kd8ikt! Have you tried flashing a different firmware?
Jul 18 20:53:55 <dtx> I guarantee you that won't work
Jul 18 20:53:57 <dtx> but let me try it
Jul 18 20:54:04 <Stroller> I'd file a bug immediately!
Jul 18 20:54:20 <dtx> as far as the volume goes
Jul 18 20:56:47 <Ainulindale> Xaos: it's not a fix at all
Jul 18 20:56:47 <Xaos> dtx...it's working for me
Jul 18 20:56:54 <Ainulindale> it's unbearable for me
Jul 18 20:56:58 <kd8ikt> i dont see a mic2 volume level
Jul 18 20:56:58 <Ainulindale> GSM buzzing all over the place
Jul 18 20:57:15 <Xaos> Don't adjust it in alsamixer
Jul 18 20:57:24 <Xaos> edit the file directly...that's what worked for me
Jul 18 20:57:33 <Ainulindale> It's the same.
Jul 18 20:57:39 <Xaos> yes and no
Jul 18 20:58:02 <Ainulindale> Why wouldn't it be the same as adjusting in alsamixer during call ?
Jul 18 20:58:05 <Xaos> when I edited it in alsamixer and just sat there in alsamixer, it suddenly reverted back to zero
Jul 18 20:58:21 <Ainulindale> That's because phone-kit reloads the conf when the call happens
Jul 18 20:58:29 <Ainulindale> But if you do that during a call
Jul 18 20:58:29 <Xaos> this seems to indicate that alsa is restoring the file over and over
Jul 18 20:58:30 <Ainulindale> It's the same
Jul 18 20:58:32 <kd8ikt> i'd do an rootfs update but i invested a lot of time in this one ;)
Jul 18 20:58:37 <Xaos> Yes...during a call it reverted
Jul 18 20:58:42 <Ainulindale> At the beginning
Jul 18 20:58:44 <kd8ikt> maybe later 
Jul 18 20:58:45 <Ainulindale> Not during
Jul 18 20:58:57 <Xaos> I can only vouch for what I saw...
Jul 18 20:59:09 <Ainulindale> And I can only tell you I have the sources opened right next to me :-)
Jul 18 20:59:14 <Xaos> try editing the file directly and see what happens...you're not going to hurt anything
Jul 18 20:59:23 <Xaos> ;-)
Jul 18 20:59:27 <Ainulindale> 22:57:34 < Ainulindale> It's the same.
Jul 18 20:59:47 <Ainulindale> And reducing the Mic2 level during my call (to myself) did reduce the GSM buzzing
Jul 18 20:59:50 <dtx> I'm about to try it
Jul 18 21:00:03 <Xaos> I understand why it SHOULD be the same...all I can say is that after MANUALLY changing that one file to a three, the person on the other end can now hear me
Jul 18 21:00:27 <rockstar> Dave, are you around?
Jul 18 21:00:34 <dtx> Xaos: very quietly?
Jul 18 21:00:53 <dtx> because when listening to a voice message I leave, I can hear it very quietly
Jul 18 21:00:58 <Ainulindale> Xaos: I agree this is the level to set, but the GSM buzzing is so unbearable
Jul 18 21:00:59 <Xaos> dtx: no...after the change they can hear me like the could hear me on my old phone
Jul 18 21:01:08 <Ainulindale> Xaos: And I think it depends on your signal reception
Jul 18 21:01:24 <Xaos> I'm just offering what I found for others to try.
Jul 18 21:01:49 <dtx> I'm about to try it and we'll see
Jul 18 21:01:56 <dtx> Are you guys running 850 or 900 MHz?
Jul 18 21:01:59 <Xaos> dtx: please let me know your results
Jul 18 21:02:07 <Xaos> dtx: I'm in the US
Jul 18 21:02:12 <dtx> So 850
Jul 18 21:02:16 <dtx> As am I
Jul 18 21:02:19 <Ainulindale> Xaos: I wasn't telling you it's bad or anything, just it's not "the" fix :-)
Jul 18 21:02:24 <Xaos> but in a major metroplex so I'm probably not actually using 850...right?
Jul 18 21:02:31 <Ainulindale> There's a real issue with gsm buzzing, and it's not a mic problem
Jul 18 21:02:41 <dtx> AT&T is usually 850
Jul 18 21:02:41 <Ainulindale> If it was, I think we would have had this fix sooner :-)
Jul 18 21:02:43 <Xaos> Ainulindale: agreed...but if it works in the meantime...it's a fix  ;-)
Jul 18 21:02:55 * kd8ikt is 1900
Jul 18 21:03:00 <Ainulindale> Xaos: try that on somewhere where you have bad reception
Jul 18 21:03:17 <Xaos> how do you check which frequency you're actually using?
Jul 18 21:03:18 <kd8ikt> quick wrap yourself with foil
Jul 18 21:04:20 <mmontour> Xaos: there are some "engineering mode" AT commands that can get this info from the Calypso chipset. Should be described somewhere on the wiki.
Jul 18 21:05:08 <Xaos> ok...I'll check then
Jul 18 21:06:43 <retracile> Is there a way for the FR to differentiate between a finger press and a stylus press?
Jul 18 21:08:22 <Stroller> retracile: I don't think so
Jul 18 21:08:37 <Stroller> retracile: I think the screen only reports a single point of contact
Jul 18 21:08:53 <Stroller> retracile: if  use a finger it is simply less accurate
Jul 18 21:09:41 <dtx> Xaos: quality is still horrible
Jul 18 21:09:46 <dtx> barely audible
Jul 18 21:10:19 <dtx> I'm just wondering if all these phones are like that
Jul 18 21:10:20 <Xaos> weird...
Jul 18 21:10:24 <dtx> Or all the 850
Jul 18 21:10:32 <dtx> are you saying the call was crystal clear for you?
Jul 18 21:10:36 <retracile> Stroller: Hrm.  Am I to understand that the kernel driver will only get X,Y coords from the h/w?
Jul 18 21:10:46 <Stroller> yes, AIUI
Jul 18 21:10:57 <retracile> Stroller: bummer.  Thanks for the info.
Jul 18 21:11:10 <dtx> I mean the volume was a little better
Jul 18 21:11:11 <Stroller> retracile: I think you need multitouch hardware to get more
Jul 18 21:11:17 <dtx> I could make out what I was saying
Jul 18 21:11:22 <dtx> but it still sounded horrible
Jul 18 21:11:25 <balrog-kun> there are some heuristics that can be used to distinguish a finger from styus
Jul 18 21:11:35 <zash> Stroller: i think you can get size of the press from some non-multitouch-hardware
Jul 18 21:11:45 <retracile> balrog-kun: any pointers to more info?
Jul 18 21:12:07 <dtx> Xaos: was the sound quality really good for you?
Jul 18 21:12:20 * Stroller stands corrected
Jul 18 21:12:23 <Xaos> hang on...just left myself voicemail to check
Jul 18 21:12:28 <balrog-kun> retracile: i've not seen any info anywhere but i've seen that how it affects the reported pressure
Jul 18 21:12:35 <balrog-kun> how some playing with it
Jul 18 21:12:44 <Xaos> I was talking to the wife earlier and she said it sounded good...but then again...she's the wife
Jul 18 21:12:47 <balrog-kun> s/that//
Jul 18 21:12:55 <dtx> hehe
Jul 18 21:17:03 <Gnutoo> according to https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-bugs/2007-11/msg00361.html the speed of battle for wesnoth is correct on gta01(but loading takes a very long time) so it should be ok for gta02
Jul 18 21:17:47 <dtx> Xaos: how was the voice mail quality?
Jul 18 21:18:06 <Gnutoo> what games could we have beside of wesnoth and wormux(that is not in oe yet)? is there any good 2d games? do they need 2d acceleration?
Jul 18 21:18:36 <MadTBone> Gnutoo: stop tempting me with your wesnoth dreams!!!!!
Jul 18 21:18:52 <Gnutoo> MadTBone, lol...why?
Jul 18 21:19:03 <zash> imagine starcraft
Jul 18 21:19:40 <donomo> image a beowulf cluster of freerunners
Jul 18 21:19:53 <MadTBone> Gnutoo: because I need to get things done....not zone out for days on end playing a game on a 2 inch screen
Jul 18 21:20:03 <retracile> donomo: ... should fit in a suitcase. :)
Jul 18 21:20:14 <donomo> retracile: one very sexy suitcase. :)
Jul 18 21:20:15 <Gnutoo> MadTBone, ok
Jul 18 21:20:54 <MadTBone> Gnutoo: buuuttttt.......
Jul 18 21:21:15 <MadTBone> Gnutoo: it would be pretty cool.....
Jul 18 21:21:42 <Gnutoo> MadTBone, yes...the adapted version of wesnoth is in oe...so(but i don't have a freerunner to test)
Jul 18 21:22:05 <Gnutoo> zash, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratagus
Jul 18 21:22:44 <zash> Gnutoo: oh
Jul 18 21:23:48 <dtx> Is SuperTux in there?
Jul 18 21:24:11 <dtx> I don't see how you could play it though
Jul 18 21:24:14 <dtx> now that I think about it
Jul 18 21:24:23 <Gnutoo> zash, but it's not in oe yet(someone has to do it)
Jul 18 21:24:53 <Gnutoo> dtx, supertux is in oe: files  supertux_0.1.2.bb  supertux_0.1.3.bb  supertux-qvga_0.1.3.bb
Jul 18 21:25:11 <Gnutoo> dtx, with a bluetooth or usb keyboard
Jul 18 21:25:12 <dtx> yeah, but how could you play it anyways
Jul 18 21:25:18 <dtx> yeah
Jul 18 21:25:25 <dtx> defeats the purpose of mobility though
Jul 18 21:25:39 <dtx> why couldn't the screen be multi touch :-(
Jul 18 21:25:54 <Gnutoo> my usb keyboard can go into my big pocket i think
Jul 18 21:26:29 <Stroller> I'm not THAT pleased to see you. It's a usb keyboard
Jul 18 21:26:33 <zash> starcraft is pretty playable with only a mouse ( event with only one button)
Jul 18 21:27:36 <Gnutoo> zash, as said in the wikipedia article there was a port to pocketpc...http://www.pocketgamer.org/showthread.php?threadid=4764 but openmoko isn't pocketpc...
Jul 18 21:28:19 <MadTBone> any info on why 2007.2 breaks sound on resume?
Jul 18 21:28:48 <zash> Gnutoo: but, how hard is it to port to arm?
Jul 18 21:29:21 <stephelton> anyone who has gotten gps working -- i'm cat'ing /dev/ttySAC1 and keep getting "unknown message*58" as the wiki says. how long should i expect it to take to get a fix?
Jul 18 21:29:51 <Gnutoo> zash, don't think that's a problem...the problem would be if the game is not coded for small screens...we must check
Jul 18 21:30:06 <mjr> stephelton, grep GPGGA rather than catting and you'll get the more relevant data
Jul 18 21:30:21 <zash> Gnutoo: starcraft runs on vga
Jul 18 21:30:42 <zash> Gnutoo: the dpi thou :/
Jul 18 21:30:45 <Gnutoo> zash, ok but we must check if stratagus does
Jul 18 21:32:04 <Gnutoo> zash, i think boswars runs in 640x480
Jul 18 21:32:28 <doc|work> hmmm
Jul 18 21:32:35 <doc|work> touchscreen liquidwars!
Jul 18 21:33:12 <zash> liquid whatnow?
Jul 18 21:33:43 * zash apt-gets
Jul 18 21:34:14 <stephelton> mjr: well the wiki explains that those messages go away after a first fix is achieved
Jul 18 21:34:22 <Xaos> ok...how do I call my voicemail from my neo?  ACK!
Jul 18 21:34:39 <Xaos> it's always been preprogramed by ATT...never had to worry about it
Jul 18 21:34:52 <Xaos> dtx: sorry for the delay...boss came by to "talk"
Jul 18 21:34:58 <zash> Xaos: how do you call voicemail from another phone?
Jul 18 21:35:14 <Xaos> I never have...always use speedial #1
Jul 18 21:35:36 <zash> Xaos: check the settings of the other phone
Jul 18 21:35:57 <mjr> stephelton, I find they don't ;]
Jul 18 21:35:58 <zash> or ask att
Jul 18 21:36:00 <Xaos> I have, but it's not the right number...it actually rings to a person...wierd
Jul 18 21:36:11 <Xaos> I'm digging on att website now
Jul 18 21:37:01 <zash> i think that for me i would call 133
Jul 18 21:37:14 <zash> (sweden - telia)
Jul 18 21:37:20 <stephelton> mjr: oh really? well my tangogps is saying "no gps found" is that it complaining that it doesn't have useful data, or am i missing something else?
Jul 18 21:37:52 <Gnutoo> strange boswars doesn't start...i'll investigate
Jul 18 21:38:38 <doc|work> zash: liquidwar :)
Jul 18 21:39:39 <zash> oh
Jul 18 21:39:40 <zash> cool
Jul 18 21:39:50 <zash> and .. i lost
Jul 18 21:40:37 <MadTBone> stephelton: do you have ssh up and running?
Jul 18 21:40:46 <zash> doc|work: yes, this would be cool
Jul 18 21:40:55 <zash> doc|work: with like bt networking :D
Jul 18 21:41:49 <dtx> Xaos: you just call your own phone number and hit * and then your password to get your voice mail
Jul 18 21:42:34 <doc|work> zash: :)
Jul 18 21:42:39 <Xaos> dtx: problem is I never use the password ;-)
Jul 18 21:42:53 <doc|work> zash: it's pretty cpu intensive though
Jul 18 21:43:01 <Xaos> ok...I'm in...there is a little buzzing/static, but it's not horrible
Jul 18 21:43:03 <MadTBone> stephelton: sorry wrong question.... is gpsd up and running?
Jul 18 21:43:11 <Xaos> and the volume seem acceptable.
Jul 18 21:43:26 <Xaos> definitely not perfect, but doable...
Jul 18 21:43:28 <stephelton> MadTBone: it complains when i try to start it
Jul 18 21:43:36 <Xaos> guess the SIM goes back in my RAZR for a bit though.  ;-)
Jul 18 21:44:19 <stephelton> MadTBone: ok its running, i'm gonna go for a walk and see what i get :) thanks
Jul 18 21:44:21 <MadTBone> stephelton: edit /etc/default/gpsd to use the right /dev/ path
Jul 18 21:44:29 <Xaos> ok...next question: is there a reason I cannot install the fbreader package that is for the fic-gta01 onto my FR?
Jul 18 21:44:31 <zash> doc|work: yeah, but i think you can cut some stuff
Jul 18 21:44:35 <Xaos> it's not giving me any love
Jul 18 21:44:41 <zash> doc|work: like the wobbling of everything
Jul 18 21:44:56 <doc|work> yeah
Jul 18 21:45:30 <MadTBone> stephelton: tango needs to talk to gpsd, gpsd (for me) was looking for gps on /dev/ttyS3 .... wrong dev
Jul 18 21:45:45 <dtx> yeah, btw I was talking to my sister when she was using my phone
Jul 18 21:45:48 <dtx> and it sounded pretty good
Jul 18 21:45:53 <dtx> a little quieter than normal
Jul 18 21:45:55 <dtx> but not bad at all
Jul 18 21:46:11 <Xaos> dtx: is that with editing the file or what?
Jul 18 21:46:16 <dtx> yeah
Jul 18 21:46:20 <dtx> after the edited file
Jul 18 21:47:00 <MadTBone> what kind of battery life are people seeing?
Jul 18 21:48:52 <dtx> but when I call and leave a voice message its quiet as hell and super staticy
Jul 18 21:49:09 <dtx> I wonder if thats just AT&T's voicemail compression of a quiet stream
Jul 18 21:49:23 <Xaos> maybe
Jul 18 21:51:13 <dtx> I turned off the wifi to see if that would effect it
Jul 18 21:52:43 <Xaos> ok...time to head home...catch y'all on Monday!
Jul 18 21:52:50 <dtx> l8r
Jul 18 21:53:03 <kd8ikt> ok wheres the /proc/brighness control
Jul 18 21:53:06 <rekord> how do you use dfu-util?
Jul 18 21:53:33 <Stroller> rekord: what does the wiki say?
Jul 18 21:53:56 <rekord> it says 'no matches for dfu-util'
Jul 18 21:53:56 <LionKMP> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart#Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner
Jul 18 21:54:07 <LionKMP> :)
Jul 18 21:54:18 <rekord> oh, there we go, thanks
Jul 18 21:54:37 <LionKMP> np, anyway there is a http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util too.
Jul 18 21:55:46 <dtx> Is there some way to apply preamp to my mic signal before going to GSM
Jul 18 21:55:47 <dtx> ?
Jul 18 21:56:10 <Stroller> That's funny. When I type "dfu-util" into the wiki'\s searcg box & hit go I get "http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util"
Jul 18 21:57:21 <Stroller> Hmmmn... ok, search is broken.
Jul 18 22:00:20 <dtx> I'm outta here
Jul 18 22:01:30 <Gnutoo> zash, boswars runs in 640x480(i had to change map because my map was making the game crash)
Jul 18 22:03:49 * zash can't compile it
Jul 18 22:04:02 <zash> stratagus
Jul 18 22:05:36 <zash> dependencies :(
Jul 18 22:06:57 <Gnutoo> zash, http://stargus.sourceforge.net/features ...it's not complete at 100%
Jul 18 22:07:14 <Gnutoo> zash, ah where does it fail? what dep don't you have?
Jul 18 22:08:00 <MadTBone> kd8ikt: /sys/class/backlight/pcf50633-bl/brightness
Jul 18 22:08:40 <Gnutoo> zash, i'll try to compile it but i do not have the game data...
Jul 18 22:08:41 <stephelton> MadTBone: yes it was /dev/ttySAC1 for me. it tried to "autocenter" me on the west coast of africa earlier... that must be 0,0?
Jul 18 22:09:07 <MadTBone> stephelton: yep
Jul 18 22:10:54 <zash> Gnutoo: first it wanted libbzip2 something
Jul 18 22:11:03 <zash> and now lua.h
Jul 18 22:12:22 <Gnutoo> zash, ah ok...you seems to be compiling stratagus...
Jul 18 22:12:31 <Gnutoo> zash, what distro do you have?
Jul 18 22:12:38 <zash> ubuntu
Jul 18 22:12:47 <Kensan_> Picking up the Ekiga discussion from the community ml: has anybody tried minisip which is in openembedded already?
Jul 18 22:12:59 <Gnutoo> zash, so look if you have stratagus and stratagus-dev packages in ubuntu...
Jul 18 22:13:06 <zash> Gnutoo: i dont
Jul 18 22:13:13 <Gnutoo> zash, ah ok 
Jul 18 22:13:23 <zash> or, it could be named something else
Jul 18 22:13:37 <Gnutoo> zash, i'll give you the deps
Jul 18 22:13:56 <Gnutoo> zash, http://pastebin.com/m4c3e19e8
Jul 18 22:14:36 <Gnutoo> zash, apt-cache search stratagus...i do not have access to my ubuntu machine right now
Jul 18 22:15:03 <zash> apt(itude|-cache) search stratagus gives nothing
Jul 18 22:15:27 <Gnutoo> zash, ok so install the deps and compile it
Jul 18 22:21:40 <zash> ll
Jul 18 22:22:29 <Stroller> Naming a Wireless Network: http://picasaweb.google.com/rajaram.sethuraman/Misc/photo#5223538206194217490
Jul 18 22:22:30 <zash> configure: error: could not find lua.h
Jul 18 22:22:38 <Martix> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=stratagus&searchon=names&suite=gutsy&section=all
Jul 18 22:22:47 <Martix> in Hardy is missing
Jul 18 22:23:32 <Gnutoo> zash, you must also install the -dev package of all the depedencies
Jul 18 22:24:30 <donomo> is there an open-phone panel of some sort at OSCON?
Jul 18 22:24:34 <zash> yeah, but there is a bunch of lua-related stuff
Jul 18 22:25:30 <Gnutoo> Martix, if he get the gusty source package could he easely recompile it or will the deps change?
Jul 18 22:26:18 <doc|work>  screen ftw
Jul 18 22:26:54 <donomo> here it is. http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2008/public/content/open-mobile-exchange
Jul 18 22:29:26 <ConfidentiaL> what actually _does_ work on the freerunner atm?
Jul 18 22:32:07 <balrog-kun> moon-buggy
Jul 18 22:34:25 <linuxxr> will a t-mobile go phone sim work in this thing?
Jul 18 22:34:31 <linuxxr> doc
Jul 18 22:34:42 <zash> Gnutoo: it worked to install gutsy packages
Jul 18 22:34:44 <doc|work> me?
Jul 18 22:34:49 <linuxxr> yay
Jul 18 22:35:00 <Gnutoo> zash, ok
Jul 18 22:35:11 <doc|work> linuxxr: I've never once stepped foot inside the united states :) it should do though
Jul 18 22:35:19 <Gnutoo> Zanoi, and the game runs?
Jul 18 22:35:36 <zash> yes
Jul 18 22:35:41 <Gnutoo> s/ Zanoi / /zash
Jul 18 22:36:05 <linuxxr> ok
Jul 18 22:36:11 <linuxxr> sorry to bother
Jul 18 22:37:25 <doc|work> hehe no worries, just saying I'm not the best person to ask :)
Jul 18 22:38:32 <Gnutoo> zash, wow...
Jul 18 22:38:44 * Gnutoo will try to sleep now
Jul 18 22:46:23 <Centaur5> Is there an easy way to delete all SMS messages under a certain contact?
Jul 18 22:47:10 <Centaur5> Sorry, I retract that question. I was confused about what some of the icons meant.  :)
Jul 18 22:53:59 <doc|work> wow, price of n800 now down to 299
Jul 18 22:54:26 <doc|work> s/n800/n810
Jul 18 23:07:57 * sparrow gets his Freerunner via ups! =)
Jul 18 23:11:19 <Infinyt1> So.. Which Distro is worked on the most/is currently developing quicker?
Jul 18 23:15:29 <thoughtjigs> hi anyone here?
Jul 18 23:16:02 <fuzzyt> sort of  :)
Jul 18 23:16:28 <Infinyt1> In a way. >_>
Jul 18 23:17:35 <thoughtjigs> I am having a problem with ... I think the battery
Jul 18 23:18:47 <fuzzyt> whats up with it?
Jul 18 23:18:49 <Infinyt1> Care to elaborate? I prolly won't be able to help, but who knows. :3
Jul 18 23:19:00 <thoughtjigs> It was working great ... I tried to flash a couple of other images and things worked fine ...
Jul 18 23:19:24 <thoughtjigs> but then I noticed that when the phone was not plugged in to the charger it quit
Jul 18 23:19:43 <thoughtjigs> and I couldn't start it up again unless it was plugged into the charger.
Jul 18 23:20:10 <fuzzyt> have you let the phone fully charge again?
Jul 18 23:20:11 <thoughtjigs> I let it charge for 4-5 hours and still couldn't get it to start up with out the charger plugged in...
Jul 18 23:20:26 <fuzzyt> was the phone off when you charged it?
Jul 18 23:20:47 <thoughtjigs> first time yess
Jul 18 23:21:07 <fuzzyt> I'm pretty sure it needs to be on to charge.  Even from the wall adapter.
Jul 18 23:21:26 <Centaur5> Where do they store the sound file for SMS?
Jul 18 23:22:29 <thoughtjigs> the last image I flashed failed and I couldn't get it to stay on long enough to flash another ... so now it doesn't boot into anything just the splash screen
Jul 18 23:23:22 <fuzzyt> thoughtjigs: ouch, and you can't get it into uboot?
Jul 18 23:23:28 <thoughtjigs> when it is plugged into the usb port I can get into the NOR but it shuts down pretty quickly ... even when I press the AUX button 
Jul 18 23:24:12 <thoughtjigs> will it charge from uboot?
Jul 18 23:24:37 <fuzzyt> I believe uboot times out and drops power.
Jul 18 23:25:01 <thoughtjigs> I suppose another option is I could put a kernel on the sandisk and boot from that?
Jul 18 23:25:05 <thoughtjigs> but not sure how
Jul 18 23:25:40 <thoughtjigs> ...I mean the microSD
Jul 18 23:26:08 <mmontour> thoughtjigs: booting from SD-card is possible but difficult to set up at the moment. You're better off re-flashing a new kernel+rootfs to NAND
Jul 18 23:26:39 <thoughtjigs> I would but I can't get the uboot to stay up long enough when plugged into the USB
Jul 18 23:26:45 <mmontour> If you can get to the u-boot console, set the "boot_menu_timeout" environment variable to a large value. 
Jul 18 23:27:17 <thoughtjigs> I did that already ... I set it to 650000 or some such large number
Jul 18 23:27:35 <thoughtjigs> still shuts down quickly when plugged into the USB
Jul 18 23:27:36 <mmontour> Also, make sure that the USB cable is plugged into a host that can supply 500mA. Try plugging it directly into your PC rather than going through a hub
Jul 18 23:27:54 <thoughtjigs> it is plugged into a laptop USB port
Jul 18 23:28:03 <thoughtjigs> directly
Jul 18 23:28:04 <mmontour> What OS on the laptop?
Jul 18 23:28:09 <thoughtjigs> ubuntu
Jul 18 23:28:22 <fuzzyt> how about using the charger for the 1000mA?
Jul 18 23:28:27 <thoughtjigs> when it isplugged into the charger uboot stays up a long time
Jul 18 23:28:48 <thoughtjigs> but doesn't help with flashing :-)
Jul 18 23:29:17 <fuzzyt> mmontour: will a FR charge in uboot?
Jul 18 23:29:29 <thoughtjigs> I don't know?
Jul 18 23:29:33 <thoughtjigs> doesn't seem to
Jul 18 23:30:36 <fuzzyt> thoughtjigs: sounds like the usb isnt giving the 500mA+ that is needed to charge, so the FR only takes 100mA which doesn't fully sustain it.
Jul 18 23:30:45 <mmontour> Not sure. There were some PMU-related bugfixes to u-boot recently.
Jul 18 23:30:45 <Yasumoto> has anyone else had trouble with libpango while running the toolchain? I'm reading through http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/022511.html, but it doesn't seem to be helping micj
Jul 18 23:30:47 <fuzzyt> thoughtjigs: got another computer?
Jul 18 23:31:24 <Yasumoto> *much
Jul 18 23:31:25 <thoughtjigs> yeah I have an XP lying around here somewhere ... try to avoid it though
Jul 18 23:31:42 <fuzzyt> thoughtjigs: cant blame you there.  ;)
Jul 18 23:31:46 <mmontour> On the Neo1973 there was a u-boot command to force 500mA charging, but I don't know if it works on the FR. ALso dangerous if the upstream host isn't actually rated to supply 500mA
Jul 18 23:32:15 <thoughtjigs> I have a powered hub ... do you think that would provide 500ma?
Jul 18 23:32:47 <fuzzyt> might, but you should check the specs.
Jul 18 23:35:23 <mmontour> thoughtjigs: do you have a voltmeter to check the battery voltage directly? Or any Nokia batteries (BL-4C or BL-5C)?
Jul 18 23:35:29 <peeps[work]> we're having a freerunner party in austin right now :-D
Jul 18 23:35:49 <thoughtjigs> yeah I have a bl5c
Jul 18 23:36:42 <mmontour> You can put that in the FR to power it while you flash a new kernel+rootfs
Jul 18 23:37:10 <mjr> a powered hub is a pretty safe bet to provide 500 mA, but of course checking to be sure isn't a bad idea
Jul 18 23:39:13 <thoughtjigs> genius it worked like a charm
Jul 18 23:39:24 <thoughtjigs> do you if the qtopia image is any good?
Jul 18 23:40:31 <Infinyt1> Well, I can't get the sound to work on it.
Jul 18 23:40:33 <jtickle> just got USB networking set up, and 'opkg update' is not working
Jul 18 23:40:37 <trix> is there a place where you can view cumulative changes between the daily 2007.2 releases?
Jul 18 23:40:37 <jtickle> it can't seem to find any signatures
Jul 18 23:40:43 <Infinyt1> Nor the Wifi, other then that it seems to be the most Stable.
Jul 18 23:40:58 <Infinyt1> I'm sure there must be a way to do so though..
Jul 18 23:41:07 <Infinyt1> Oh, Qtopia I mean.
Jul 18 23:42:03 <mmontour> The Trolltech qtopia images should give basic phone functionality. Some needed a "ln -s /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios /etc/alsa" for sound to work; don't know if that still applies
Jul 18 23:43:04 <thoughtjigs> Thanks ... I am up and running again ... what image have you liked the best ... I tried the FSO but not much there yet ... I havn't tried tha ASU ... wondering if it is worth the effort?
Jul 18 23:43:08 <Infinyt1> Hmm, I'll try that. o_O
Jul 18 23:43:31 <doc|work> thoughtjigs: asu's not great
Jul 18 23:43:34 <Infinyt1> thought: I'd have to say no on ASU. It's mondo glitchy at the moment.
Jul 18 23:43:46 <doc|work> although I didn't have much change to play with it
Jul 18 23:43:50 <doc|work> *chance
Jul 18 23:43:54 <jtickle> oh duh, never mind, read the docs
Jul 18 23:44:25 <carrar> hey should have made a nice looking lanyard for the phone
Jul 18 23:44:35 <thoughtjigs> thanks
Jul 18 23:44:48 <jebba> dah, my freerunners entered the country but they are holding them at the airport customs (argentina).   long way to go to pick up the fones and argue with some customs dude.
Jul 18 23:44:49 <thoughtjigs> anybody tried a net10 sim card to see what happens?
Jul 18 23:46:10 <doc|work> jebba: what's to be argued?
Jul 18 23:46:38 <jebba> dunno. but they kept them.
Jul 18 23:47:30 <jebba> i think they may be wondering about the debug board.  (?)  but that's just speculation.
Jul 18 23:49:57 <MadTBone> how does one retrieve the local time from the GSM network?
Jul 18 23:50:55 <simon_cm> Hi,  I received my Freerunner today.  I am able to receive calls but not to make outgoing calls.  I guess something crash when I try to make an outgoing call, since, after that, incoming call aren't going trough until I reboot the phone.  Any idea how I could diagnose that problem?
Jul 18 23:51:40 <Pjj> anyone seen this yet? : http://youtube.com/watch?v=NzkdfZAl9wk
Jul 18 23:52:03 <ieatlint> yeah, it says 93 views
Jul 18 23:52:20 <doc|work> Pjj: sweet
Jul 18 23:52:23 <Stroller> simon_cm: did you updafe using opkg ?
Jul 18 23:52:49 <doc|work> weird no mention of gps
Jul 18 23:52:56 <doc|work> in the text summary
Jul 18 23:53:32 <doc|work> man, someone needs to work on the naming :/
Jul 18 23:53:49 <doc|work> openmoko is the phone? neo has been working on...? 
Jul 18 23:53:57 <simon_cm> No, but I flashed 'uImage-2.6.24+git20080424-om-gta02.bin' and 'Openmoko-Freerunner-20080424-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2' and even tried qtopia-4.3.2-gta02-flash-07172049.tgz
Jul 18 23:54:18 <simon_cm> I'll try to update with opkg...
Jul 18 23:54:38 <Stroller> simon_cm: hmmmn... sounds like you're uptodate
Jul 18 23:55:07 <mmontour> simon_cm: the Trolltech qtopia images don't use opkg
Jul 18 23:55:11 <ieatlint> uh, 4/24 isn't up to date 
Jul 18 23:55:26 <Stroller> Oh, sorry
Jul 18 23:55:34 <Stroller> Wasn't paying attention
Jul 18 23:55:38 <simon_cm> mmontour; I tried qtopia first; I am back to 4/24
Jul 18 23:56:01 <Infinyt1> 4/24?
Jul 18 23:56:07 <Infinyt1> Err, latest stable release?
Jul 18 23:56:14 <simon_cm> Yep
Jul 18 23:56:21 <Infinyt1> Ah, that's what I'm flashing right now
Jul 18 23:56:35 <Infinyt1> Went through latest release, then ASU, then QTopia.
Jul 18 23:56:58 <Infinyt1> If I can get the Wifi and Browser working I'll be happy
Jul 18 23:56:59 <Infinyt1> >_>
Jul 18 23:58:07 <Infinyt1> Anyone know how to change the time on the 4/24?
Jul 18 23:59:38 <Dave> Yeehaw!
Jul 18 23:59:57 <Stroller> Infinyt1: I'd prolly just use the `date` command
Jul 19 00:00:00 <Infinyt1> Hai Dave. :3
Jul 19 00:00:09 <Infinyt1> Ah, good point.
Jul 19 00:00:14 <Stroller> Wosshappening, Dave ?
Jul 19 00:00:26 <Dave> Hallo :]
Jul 19 00:01:11 <Centaur5> Infinyt1: They updated instructions for that on the wiki yesterday under getting started.
Jul 19 00:01:20 <Infinyt1> Ah okay.
Jul 19 00:01:29 <Infinyt1> Arr, brb. Rebooting.
Jul 19 00:06:34 <kd8ikt> aw man made a moko video for youtube, and they crapped the quality bigtime
Jul 19 00:07:18 <kd8ikt> yet it probably has near cd audio :P
Jul 19 00:12:22 <Infinyt1> Back.
Jul 19 00:12:42 <Dave> hehe
Jul 19 00:12:51 <feitingen> Infinyt1: to set the date, i'd recommend ntpdate
Jul 19 00:13:12 <feitingen> date/time
Jul 19 00:17:43 <kd8ikt> dont forget timezone
Jul 19 00:18:17 <Infinyt1> Kay.
Jul 19 00:18:26 <Infinyt1> Also, what am I doing wrong here? I keep getting this: ssh: connect to host openmoko port 22: No route to host
Jul 19 00:19:16 <simon_cm> What's your ip for usb0 on your desktop?
Jul 19 00:19:37 <Infinyt1> Um
Jul 19 00:19:43 <Infinyt1> I dunno. >_>
Jul 19 00:19:47 <kd8ikt> ifconfig
Jul 19 00:19:52 <simon_cm> ifconfig usb0 ...
Jul 19 00:20:27 <Infinyt1> Sorry, I'm just a simple user who likes opensource stuff. ^^;
Jul 19 00:20:32 <Infinyt1> It's uhh 192.168.0.200
Jul 19 00:20:55 <simon_cm> Ok, and what address are you trying to ssh to?
Jul 19 00:21:09 <Infinyt1> I was just copying from the Wiki
Jul 19 00:21:16 <Infinyt1> # scp minimo_* root@openmoko:/tmp 
Jul 19 00:21:34 <Infinyt1> I suppose, I should replace openmoko with the IP?
Jul 19 00:21:46 <simon_cm> try replacing openmoko with 192.168.0.202
Jul 19 00:22:00 * cjb just answered a call on his FR that he _didn't already know he was going to get_.
Jul 19 00:22:03 <kd8ikt> or export openmoko=192.yadayada
Jul 19 00:22:08 <cjb> it was shocking.
Jul 19 00:22:11 <kd8ikt> oh wait no
Jul 19 00:22:21 <kd8ikt> alias openmoko
Jul 19 00:22:34 <Infinyt1> Ah
Jul 19 00:22:36 <Infinyt1> I got it to work
Jul 19 00:22:38 <kd8ikt> ? i dont/havent used alias
Jul 19 00:22:46 <Infinyt1> sudo scp minimo_* root@192.168.0.202:/tmp
Jul 19 00:22:50 <Infinyt1> hoorah :D
Jul 19 00:22:51 <simon_cm> kd8ikt; I don't think so; he would have to add it to his host file
Jul 19 00:23:22 <kd8ikt> oh yeah duh
Jul 19 00:23:28 <kd8ikt> hostname
Jul 19 00:23:39 <CVirus> cjb: what does it sound like ?
Jul 19 00:23:44 <CVirus> is the sound clear ?
Jul 19 00:23:57 <cjb> CVirus: seems so
Jul 19 00:24:03 <simon_cm> or define a variable with export like you said, but replace 'openmoko' with '$openmoko' in his command
Jul 19 00:24:04 <CVirus> cool
Jul 19 00:24:05 <cjb> my wife didn't complain about the sound quality
Jul 19 00:24:07 <cjb> and I heard her fine
Jul 19 00:24:27 <CVirus> I think you're the first to get such a call
Jul 19 00:24:29 <CVirus> hehe
Jul 19 00:24:45 <kd8ikt> i invited interference complaints because i asked (bad idea)
Jul 19 00:25:01 <kd8ikt> "hows my sound quality"
Jul 19 00:25:10 <Infinyt1> Hrm.. Now I got this: ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for minimo:
Jul 19 00:25:10 <Infinyt1> 	 libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.6) libxt6 (>= 1.0.5) when trying to opkg minimo
Jul 19 00:25:27 <kd8ikt> whats minimo
Jul 19 00:25:32 <CVirus> a browser
Jul 19 00:25:41 <Infinyt1> Yeah
Jul 19 00:25:47 <CVirus> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/minimo/
Jul 19 00:25:48 <simon_cm> portable firefox (mozilla) I guess?
Jul 19 00:25:55 <kd8ikt> ah
Jul 19 00:26:26 <Centaur5> Infinyt1: it automatically got that dependency for me when I connected it to the net
Jul 19 00:26:37 <Infinyt1> Hmmm..
Jul 19 00:26:43 <Infinyt1> Maybe I'm not connected?
Jul 19 00:26:44 <Infinyt1> o_O
Jul 19 00:27:09 <kd8ikt> nope
Jul 19 00:27:11 <Centaur5> Infinyt1: I did follow the instructions from the wiki and it worked just as it said.
Jul 19 00:27:17 <Infinyt1> Hmm
Jul 19 00:27:19 <kd8ikt> got a wireless router around?
Jul 19 00:27:22 <Infinyt1> Aye
Jul 19 00:27:44 <simon_cm> Well, you would have to configure packet forwarding and NAT, to connect your phone to the Internet via your desktop USB port...
Jul 19 00:28:02 <kd8ikt> major hassle
Jul 19 00:28:04 <Infinyt1> Hmm, I'd rather use my Wifi router
Jul 19 00:28:15 <Psi> hm.. is there a list somewhere of the developers/programmers who work at openmoko? (i'm trying to add mailing list filters so i can separate them from everyone else)
Jul 19 00:28:29 <kd8ikt> and install whats it called? campwifi?
Jul 19 00:28:54 <Centaur5> kd8ikt: What is campwifi?
Jul 19 00:29:13 <kd8ikt> gui wifi iinterface
Jul 19 00:29:18 <Infinyt1> Oo, sounds good.
Jul 19 00:29:23 <Infinyt1> Lesse if I can find it
Jul 19 00:29:35 <Centaur5> kd8ikt: Cool, I'm going to look for it then.  :)
Jul 19 00:29:36 <kd8ikt> donno about WPA/WEP stuff
Jul 19 00:29:50 <Centaur5> kd8ikt: I've been using command line.
Jul 19 00:29:53 <kd8ikt> i have yet to use it but its description was for open ap's
Jul 19 00:30:24 <kd8ikt> i'll warwalk with it sometime and play with it
Jul 19 00:30:44 <Infinyt1> Hrm, not finding it anywhere
Jul 19 00:30:58 <kd8ikt> did you update opgk?
Jul 19 00:31:19 <Infinyt1> Yeah, erm.. But I tend to get a lot of errors. I think they're just Sig errors though
Jul 19 00:31:38 <Infinyt1> Lemme try again
Jul 19 00:32:24 <Infinyt1> Yeh it keeps giving me this kinda error: Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/Packages.gz, error 0
Jul 19 00:32:49 <simon_cm> Ok; I just did an opkg update && opkg upgrade on my phone, rebooted, and I still can't get an outgoing call to work :(
Jul 19 00:34:03 <simon_cm> is there a way to make a call in command line, to see if I can get some usefull output?
Jul 19 00:34:04 <kd8ikt> Infinyt1: can you ping google?
Jul 19 00:34:07 <kd8ikt> via the phone
Jul 19 00:34:14 <Infinyt1> I tried that earlier; Nope
Jul 19 00:35:04 <kd8ikt> iwconfig eth0 essid yourAP ; udhcpc eth0
Jul 19 00:35:28 <Infinyt1> Wazzat?
Jul 19 00:35:30 <kd8ikt> wow minimo is installing a bunch of depends
Jul 19 00:35:49 <Psi> nevermind, just searched for anyone with an @openmoko address in the list
Jul 19 00:36:38 <Infinyt1> Kinda funny when Google doesn't Ping
Jul 19 00:38:17 <simon_cm> Anyone; Any idea why I wouldn't be able to make a call, while I have no problem receiving one?
Jul 19 00:39:13 <Infinyt1> There like, a quick way I can get the phone online to install campwifi?
Jul 19 00:39:28 <kd8ikt> lol just use iwconfig
Jul 19 00:39:34 <kd8ikt> via the shell
Jul 19 00:39:41 <Infinyt1> How's that work?
Jul 19 00:39:48 <kd8ikt> iwconfig eth0 essid yourAP ; udhcpc eth0
Jul 19 00:39:53 <Infinyt1> >_> Ahhh
Jul 19 00:39:54 <kd8ikt> is it encrypted?
Jul 19 00:40:00 <Infinyt1> Shouldn't be
Jul 19 00:40:07 <Infinyt1> I'm to lazy to encrypt stuff
Jul 19 00:40:08 <kd8ikt> then thats all you need
Jul 19 00:40:15 <Infinyt1> Ooo
Jul 19 00:40:49 <Infinyt1> What's with the yourAP thing?
Jul 19 00:40:54 <kd8ikt> tup
Jul 19 00:40:59 <kd8ikt> ssid
Jul 19 00:41:10 <Infinyt1> Do I need to replace it with something, or leave it just as you wrote it?
Jul 19 00:41:19 <kd8ikt> your accesspoint has an ssid what is it
Jul 19 00:41:31 <Infinyt1> Ah right, I know this one..
Jul 19 00:41:32 <kd8ikt> omfg i hope your kidding
Jul 19 00:41:38 <Infinyt1> Err.. just TheRouter
Jul 19 00:42:20 <Infinyt1> Haha sorry, like I said I'm just a basic end user. >_>
Jul 19 00:43:05 <kd8ikt> welll that shit had better change or start asking questions first in #linux 
Jul 19 00:43:16 <kd8ikt> or ask google
Jul 19 00:43:51 <Infinyt1> <_<
Jul 19 00:43:53 <simon_cm> Common kd8ikt; if you do not want to help him, you do not have to...
Jul 19 00:44:12 <kd8ikt> i help those who help themselves
Jul 19 00:44:39 <kd8ikt> <-god
Jul 19 00:44:46 <kd8ikt> heh
Jul 19 00:44:53 <simon_cm> To bad you can't help me with my problem :/
Jul 19 00:45:04 <kd8ikt> god has his own problems today
Jul 19 00:45:37 <kd8ikt> damn touchpad isnt callibrated right on portrait mode and i cant think of where to start. Xorg.conf?
Jul 19 00:45:49 <kd8ikt> er i mean landscape
Jul 19 00:46:30 <Marcel_M> simon_cm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM
Jul 19 00:47:11 <Infinyt1> Doh, that wasn't my SSID. Bahaha
Jul 19 00:47:21 <kd8ikt> iwlist scan
Jul 19 00:47:32 <Infinyt1> There we go
Jul 19 00:47:39 <Infinyt1> Thanke kd8. <3 you :D
Jul 19 00:54:37 <kd8ikt> well this sucks the keyboard on minimo isnt working for me
Jul 19 00:56:59 <chillywilly> howdy
Jul 19 00:57:54 <chillywilly> lpotter: *poke*
Jul 19 01:00:25 <goldenhawk> How long does it normally take to get a fix with GPS?
Jul 19 01:00:45 <Psi> depends
Jul 19 01:01:09 <Psi> gta01 or 02?
Jul 19 01:01:38 <kd8ikt> takes me less then a min in optimal settings
Jul 19 01:01:46 <kd8ikt> ie outside ;)
Jul 19 01:01:47 <goldenhawk> freerunner
Jul 19 01:03:23 <SpeedEvil> For GTA01, a refix after being down 1 min takes about 11s
Jul 19 01:04:10 <goldenhawk> That's faster than I've ever seen my freerunner do.  It tends to take between 1 and 10 minutes.
Jul 19 01:04:37 <SpeedEvil> That's after killing gllin, and then restarting it 1 min later.
Jul 19 01:04:44 <SpeedEvil> Without powering off the GPS. 
Jul 19 01:04:51 <SpeedEvil> Basically the absolute best case.
Jul 19 01:04:53 <goldenhawk> Oh!
Jul 19 01:04:56 <goldenhawk> I see :)
Jul 19 01:05:50 * chillywilly runs an 'opkg update'
Jul 19 01:05:52 <Psi> how long should gta01 take from cold power on
Jul 19 01:05:56 <chillywilly> er upgrade too
Jul 19 01:06:12 <SpeedEvil> Psi: I was about to test that actually
Jul 19 01:06:13 <goldenhawk> So is like 1 minute best case outdoors and like 3-5 minutes best case indoors pretty normal performance?
Jul 19 01:06:27 <SpeedEvil> AGPS will help lots.
Jul 19 01:06:32 <SpeedEvil> (indoors)
Jul 19 01:06:42 <ieatlint> outdoors can be a lot less than a minute
Jul 19 01:06:54 <Psi> can gta01 support AGPS too, or just gta02?
Jul 19 01:07:03 <ieatlint> this morning, waiting for a bus, i got a fix on my gta02 in 35 seconds
Jul 19 01:07:07 <SpeedEvil> GTA01 can too - but I'm not sure it's implemetned
Jul 19 01:07:09 <goldenhawk> Ah yes the program I'm using calls itself agps ui
Jul 19 01:07:25 <ieatlint> it calls itself agps ui, but it doesn't use agps
Jul 19 01:07:33 <goldenhawk> Hm!
Jul 19 01:07:53 <goldenhawk> Is there one that I can use for testing which does?
Jul 19 01:07:54 <ieatlint> i think that's kind of a "it will, eventually" deal
Jul 19 01:08:14 <ieatlint> i don't believe so, but i'm not authority on the matter
Jul 19 01:08:23 <goldenhawk> *nod*
Jul 19 01:08:25 <ieatlint> be happy, really, as this means you got those fixes without agps ...
Jul 19 01:08:27 <dcordes_> somebody got experience with tsc2003 touchscreens and tslib configuration?
Jul 19 01:08:32 <ieatlint> with agps... :)
Jul 19 01:09:43 <ieatlint> it is quite annoying that people must eat so often
Jul 19 01:09:51 <Infinyt1> Isn't it?
Jul 19 01:10:19 <ieatlint> yeah, 2-3 times a day... it's bullshit
Jul 19 01:10:23 <Tsing1> unless you like to eat.
Jul 19 01:10:38 <Infinyt1> P'Zones will ease your misery ieatlint
Jul 19 01:10:41 <Tsing1> but I can eat once a day.
Jul 19 01:10:56 <ieatlint> wtf is p'zones?
Jul 19 01:11:13 <Infinyt1> Hmm, don't have a PizzaHut near where you live?
Jul 19 01:11:23 <ieatlint> oh, yeah, unfortunately :P
Jul 19 01:11:35 <ieatlint> where are you?
Jul 19 01:11:44 <Infinyt1> Nebraska
Jul 19 01:11:44 <ieatlint> because if you're in europe... pizzahut is a whole different thing
Jul 19 01:11:48 <Infinyt1> In the USA
Jul 19 01:12:03 <ieatlint> yeah, unlike most americans, i know nebraska is a state ;)
Jul 19 01:12:10 <ieatlint> and i can locate it on a map!!
Jul 19 01:13:01 <Tsing1> What does Nebraska mean anyway?  What a weird name.
Jul 19 01:13:21 <Infinyt1> Not a clue
Jul 19 01:13:25 <ieatlint> perhaps nothing
Jul 19 01:13:30 <ieatlint> california doesn't mean a damned thing
Jul 19 01:14:17 <Tsing1> I live in Ottawa, most of the names around here are indian, or some european hangover.
Jul 19 01:14:45 <ieatlint> oh, apparently it's named by the french
Jul 19 01:14:59 <ieatlint> run on sentence: "Several explorers from across Europe explored the lands that became Nebraska. In 1682 Ren?-Robert Cavelier claimed the area first when he name all the territory drained by the Mississippi River and its tributaries for France, naming it the Louisiana Territory. In 1714 Etienne de Bourgmont traveled from the mouth of the Missouri River in Montana to the mouth of the Platte River, which he called the Nebraskier River, becoming the f
Jul 19 01:15:00 <ieatlint> irst person to approximate the state?s name."
Jul 19 01:15:34 <ieatlint> blame the french
Jul 19 01:16:54 <Tsing1> Nebraska means "Flat Water" Indian.
Jul 19 01:17:32 <ieatlint> ok, blame the french and native americans
Jul 19 01:17:34 <ieatlint> bastards
Jul 19 01:17:38 <Tsing1> ?? Nebraska gets its name from a Chiwere word meaning "flat water," after the Platte River that flows through the state.
Jul 19 01:18:00 <Tsing1> Jury is out on California, devoted all the time I care to :)
Jul 19 01:18:32 <ieatlint> "Bourgemont traveled to the mouth of the Platte River (which he named the Nebraskier River for the Otoe tribe name for "flat water")"
Jul 19 01:18:46 <ieatlint> so it is from the otoe tribe, but so-named by a frenchie
Jul 19 01:18:48 <Tsing1> I never heard of the Chiwre indians, maybe they came from France.
Jul 19 01:19:29 <ieatlint> we blame spain for our name, and they don't even know what it means
Jul 19 01:20:01 <Tsing1> yeah, I figured it was Spanish.
Jul 19 01:20:33 <Tsing1> Well, Spain has been over run by so many invaders they prolly don't remember where half their words come from.
Jul 19 01:21:59 <ieatlint> well, maybe they should give catalonia back then
Jul 19 01:27:34 <linuxxr> 12 seconds shutdown   sweet
Jul 19 01:29:53 <jOERG_rw> huh, 12sec?
Jul 19 01:30:58 <jOERG_rw> seen taking 2sec. no more
Jul 19 01:40:08 <Infinyt1> Hmm.. Where's campwifi located? opkg install campwifi yields an error with a return value 2
Jul 19 01:57:01 <Infinyt1> Hrm..
Jul 19 01:57:49 <Infinyt1> Anyone gotten this? : Could not obtain administrative lock
Jul 19 01:58:04 <dcordes_> Infinyt1: on what operation?
Jul 19 01:58:22 <Infinyt1> opkg update or install or upgrade
Jul 19 01:58:33 <dcordes_> do you run it as root?
Jul 19 01:58:51 <Infinyt1> Aye, root@om-gta02:~#
Jul 19 01:59:31 <dcordes_> is root able to write to /var/lock/?
Jul 19 01:59:54 <dcordes_> is another opkg process running?
Jul 19 02:00:21 <Infinyt1> Ah, hmm. That might be.
Jul 19 02:00:32 <Infinyt1> But if it is I don't have the terminal up anymore
Jul 19 02:04:03 <Infinyt1> I'll just try restarting
Jul 19 02:07:50 <Infinyt1> Kay, restarting it worked.
Jul 19 02:09:58 <Infinyt1> The QWERTY keyboard is awesome
Jul 19 02:10:09 <dcordes_> I bet in the background some opkg was going on that was in command of the lockfile
Jul 19 02:10:16 <Infinyt1> Yeah prolly.
Jul 19 02:10:31 <Infinyt1> For future reference, any way to kill an off-screen opkg on the spot?
Jul 19 02:10:39 <dcordes_> killall
Jul 19 02:10:56 <Infinyt1> Makes sense.
Jul 19 02:10:57 <Infinyt1> >_>
Jul 19 02:11:00 <dcordes_> but you might break things that way
Jul 19 02:11:10 <dcordes_> better not assume it's happening again :)
Jul 19 02:11:18 <Infinyt1> Aye. xP
Jul 19 02:11:28 <Infinyt1> Hey, have you gotten campwifi to install?
Jul 19 02:11:30 <dcordes_> are you on freerunner?
Jul 19 02:11:38 <Infinyt1> Yup
Jul 19 02:11:40 <dcordes_> I have no moko device, sorry
Jul 19 02:11:44 <Infinyt1> Ah
Jul 19 02:11:48 <dcordes_> and never used campwifi
Jul 19 02:12:57 <nullpuppy> with the new daily kernel/builds is there anything that needs to be set to utilize the new sd card/gps fixes?
Jul 19 02:13:44 <cjb> nullpuppy: nope
Jul 19 02:13:52 <nullpuppy> ok
Jul 19 02:13:53 <cjb> seems to be working here, got a fix with SD in all the way home
Jul 19 02:14:00 <nullpuppy> ok
Jul 19 02:14:05 <nullpuppy> how long did it take you to get a fix?
Jul 19 02:14:18 <cjb> maybe 3-4 mins
Jul 19 02:14:26 <Infinyt1> What GPS program you guys using?
Jul 19 02:14:30 <cjb> little longer than usual, but it was outside my office with buildings nearby
Jul 19 02:14:32 <cjb> tangogps
Jul 19 02:14:34 <cjb> I love it
Jul 19 02:14:40 <Infinyt1> Hehe tango.
Jul 19 02:14:42 <dcordes_> isn't the freerunner gps thing a hardware issue?
Jul 19 02:14:52 <cjb> dcordes_: worked around in software, like most hardware issues.
Jul 19 02:14:54 <roh> man... yahoo has... issues...
Jul 19 02:14:58 <dcordes_> I have seen some wiki article that detailed on messing around with the antenna.
Jul 19 02:15:09 <cjb> oh, that doesn't seem to be a widespred problem
Jul 19 02:15:12 <Infinyt1> roh: What else is new?
Jul 19 02:15:32 <nullpuppy> cjb: alright.
Jul 19 02:16:30 <linuxxr> why does it say registering...
Jul 19 02:16:37 <roh> https://monitor.openmoko.org/munin/chandra/sita.openmoko.org-exim_mailqueue.html
Jul 19 02:16:51 <roh> see that graph? thats yahoo not taking our mail atm...
Jul 19 02:17:31 <Infinyt1> Seems to be a widespread problem with Yahoo.
Jul 19 02:17:40 <linuxxr> not a good sim i guess?
Jul 19 02:18:28 <roh> if you have a bad sim or one thats good and others have issues with the same carrier: please make a photo of the contacts and label it 'working' or 'notworking' and more details of what happens
Jul 19 02:18:48 <peepsalot> i have had inconsistent success getting my sim to register.  sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't
Jul 19 02:19:08 <roh> currently it looks very likely as that there are problems with some series of gemplus sims (across different carriers)
Jul 19 02:20:05 <retracile> get a few thousand geeks with open phones and there's no telling what you'll learn about the cell phone network. :)
Jul 19 02:20:08 <Infinyt1> I sure hope mine'll work when I get it..
Jul 19 02:20:38 <Infinyt1> Oh, question. Should I get a screen cover, or is it safe to just use the screen itself?
Jul 19 02:21:52 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Infinyt1: yes - unless you don't mind scratches.
Jul 19 02:22:09 <Sp33d3v1l3r> Infinyt1: most people experience scratches on the scren if they don't use ont.
Jul 19 02:22:23 <Infinyt1> I do. >_> Any recommendations?
Jul 19 02:22:50 <Infinyt1> I doubt there's any sized specifically for the Freerunner
Jul 19 02:22:52 <retracile> Infinyt1: someone in the channel's selling some.  Might even by Sp33d3v1l3r
Jul 19 02:23:04 <dcordes_> Infinyt1: I can suggest ebay display cover mafia
Jul 19 02:23:28 <retracile> Anyone have opinons on the invisible shield one?
Jul 19 02:23:54 <swc|206> /DCC SEND MOKOFRIGGINROXMANFORSURE
Jul 19 02:24:08 <linuxxr> should not need anything but putting in the sim an booting    correct?
Jul 19 02:24:13 <cjb> correct
Jul 19 02:24:37 <linuxxr> maybe a    couple of reboots?
Jul 19 02:25:04 <peepsalot> man, just bought an 8gb microsd, and the sd reader for my desktop doesn't even read it
Jul 19 02:25:11 <Sp33d3v1l3r> I'm offering one that fits for only $5 shipped (screen protector)
Jul 19 02:26:33 * cjb downloads >50M of OSM maps.  woo.
Jul 19 02:27:41 <cjb> speaking of which, the effect of downloading maps to an SD card with tangogps open appears to be that it thinks I'm moving 8km/hr
Jul 19 02:27:45 <Infinyt1> Sp33d: Where do I sign?
Jul 19 02:28:15 <Infinyt1> Sp33d: Err, I'm the the USA by the way, not sure if that makes a difference.
Jul 19 02:28:39 <nullpuppy> cjb: hehe, yeah, tango thinks i'm moving too when its stationary..
Jul 19 02:28:56 <SpeedEvil> Infinyt1: other ID - PM to either Sp33d3v1l3r, or me.
Jul 19 02:29:05 <nullpuppy> so.. what do you need to do to grab osm maps onto the fr?
Jul 19 02:29:14 <SpeedEvil> Infinyt1: send paypal, and it arrives in the post in a week.
Jul 19 02:29:21 <SpeedEvil> nullpuppy: tangogps
Jul 19 02:29:30 <nullpuppy> right, ok
Jul 19 02:29:31 <nullpuppy> got that
Jul 19 02:29:43 <CVirus> Sp33d3v1l3r: I'm in Egypt
Jul 19 02:29:50 <CVirus> do I get free shipping too ?
Jul 19 02:30:54 <SpeedEvil> Yes, anyone.
Jul 19 02:31:25 <CVirus> !
Jul 19 02:31:43 <CVirus> how come
Jul 19 02:31:45 <cjb> nullpuppy: tap the screen, choose "Map download"
Jul 19 02:31:49 <cjb> hm, no
Jul 19 02:31:52 <cjb> first go to config
Jul 19 02:31:58 <cjb> and change the repo location to /media/card/Maps
Jul 19 02:32:21 <SpeedEvil> CVirus: because I have an agreement with santa to do express deliveries.
Jul 19 02:32:43 <SpeedEvil> (or more likely, just the royal mail) Letter post isn't that expensive.
Jul 19 02:32:45 <retracile> SpeedEvil: Oh, so he does contract work between his regular gig? ;)
Jul 19 02:33:16 <CVirus> SpeedEvil: ahh
Jul 19 02:33:24 <CVirus> SpeedEvil: how can I pay ?
Jul 19 02:33:30 <CVirus> SpeedEvil: can I pay in mail too ?
Jul 19 02:33:45 <nullpuppy> cjb: repo loc being cahce dir?
Jul 19 02:33:52 <SpeedEvil> PM CVirus? (paypal)
Jul 19 02:34:12 <CVirus> no paypal in egypt
Jul 19 02:34:27 <CVirus> it's okay .. I don't need one right now .. haven't got my FR yet
Jul 19 02:34:27 <cjb> nullpuppy: yes
Jul 19 02:34:57 <nullpuppy> ok
Jul 19 02:35:11 <nullpuppy> how long does it typically take for ~25mb of maps? :)
Jul 19 02:35:17 <cjb> not long, here
Jul 19 02:35:19 <nullpuppy> and is there any sort of progress meter?
Jul 19 02:35:22 <cjb> no
Jul 19 02:35:25 <cjb> I've been doing:
Jul 19 02:35:31 <cjb> du -shc /media/card/Maps
Jul 19 02:35:35 <cjb> in the terminal as it goes along
Jul 19 02:36:02 * cjb just hit 100M, and has everywhere he might conceivably cycle to at large zoomlevels.
Jul 19 02:36:13 * nullpuppy nods
Jul 19 02:36:22 <Infinyt1> Speaking of "How long"'s. How long does it usually take for a opkg upgrade to finish? I mean, it's done downloading everything, then it turned off and started cycling a bunch of text that all looks virtually the same.
Jul 19 02:36:57 <peepsalot> wtf i got registration denied.  yet this same sim worked earlier
Jul 19 02:37:05 <cjb> peepsalot: I get that too :/
Jul 19 02:37:09 <cjb> peepsalot: AT&T?
Jul 19 02:37:29 <peepsalot> yeah
Jul 19 02:37:49 <cjb> seems to get registered eventually, sometimes needs a reboot
Jul 19 02:37:49 <peepsalot> it's a sim from when they were cingular
Jul 19 02:37:59 <cjb> mine's a latest SIM, still does it
Jul 19 02:38:24 <peepsalot> i wonder is there a way to see more info, for example why it was denied?
Jul 19 02:38:48 <lpotter> chillywilly: pong
Jul 19 02:38:59 <retracile> Fun with LEDs: while true;do for f in /sys/devices/platform/gta02-led.0/leds/*/brightness;do x=`tr 01 10<$f`;echo $x>$f;sleep 1;done;done
Jul 19 02:39:05 <cjb> peepsalot: you can libgsmd-tool -m shell, r
Jul 19 02:39:17 <cjb> peepsalot: mine returns cme error 13, which also just means permission denied, pretty much
Jul 19 02:41:03 <peepsalot> cjb,  unsupported mode "shell"
Jul 19 02:41:54 <peepsalot> oh actually it says unsupported mode 'shell,' with the comma there
Jul 19 02:41:59 <cjb> yes, don't use the comma
Jul 19 02:42:04 <cjb> I meant, once you're in the shell, type r
Jul 19 02:42:11 <Infinyt1> Is there a way to wipe the kernel and rootfs?
Jul 19 02:42:23 <cjb> Infinyt1: of course.  nand erase kernel, nand erase rootfs, in uboot.
Jul 19 02:43:01 <peepsalot> is there a way to repeat prev. command in the default terminal?
Jul 19 02:43:07 <cjb> don't think so :/
Jul 19 02:43:18 <Infinyt1> Ah, thanke.
Jul 19 02:44:32 <peepsalot> hmm, i get cme error 32
Jul 19 02:47:29 <Infinyt1> Hehe. Messing with this thing is so much fun. >_>
Jul 19 02:48:30 <cjb> yeah :)
Jul 19 02:48:41 <Infinyt1> I have like no idea what I'm doing most of the time, but still.
Jul 19 02:49:06 <cjb> I didn't buy one of the Nokia tablets because I thought having a phone was so important, but.. even if the FR didn't have GSM, I'd use it a lot
Jul 19 02:49:13 <cjb> GPS+wifi is a nice combo
Jul 19 02:49:32 <Infinyt1> Very nice.
Jul 19 02:50:16 <Infinyt1> Brb, food.
Jul 19 02:52:10 <peepsalot> hmm, i reseated the sim and it works again.  not sure if it's because I moved it, or just that it's totally random
Jul 19 02:53:27 <SpeedEvil> Is there a way to lock a page on the wiki so only you or an admin can change it? (user page)
Jul 19 02:54:02 <cjb> peepsalot: there's definitely a reseating theory out there
Jul 19 02:54:13 <cjb> peepsalot: but I've had mine in the same seating for two days, and it works sometimes and fails others.
Jul 19 02:55:51 <peepsalot> is there much hope for improving the gui response?  it seems really terrible a lot of the time
Jul 19 02:58:42 <Infinyt1> It does?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 19 02:59:57 2008