**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 25 02:59:57 2008 Jul 25 03:02:29 what kind of browser is used? Jul 25 03:02:51 :O Jul 25 03:03:44 Anybody here installed the GPS capacitor hardware fix? Jul 25 03:04:39 ZimCS: thats a bit up in the air last i checked. Jul 25 03:04:49 right now i know asu doesnt ship with a browser Jul 25 03:04:56 beats me what else is being used. Jul 25 03:05:04 I did it this afternoon - it's even tougher than it looks. Jul 25 03:05:26 I only lost 2 capacitors in the attempt - third time's the charm! Jul 25 03:06:20 adsllc: good you didnt lose 2 freerunners in the attempt... :) Jul 25 03:07:00 Yea - it was fun though. The darn caps are so small they would stick to whatever I tried to hold them down or place them with. Jul 25 03:07:27 just curious, i need a new phone at the end of august and tonight is the first i have heard of the neo freerunner Jul 25 03:07:52 ZimCS: some people use the freerunner as a primary phone Jul 25 03:08:05 hello Jul 25 03:08:07 but as such i'd highly suggest u get a backup phone... Jul 25 03:08:09 :) Jul 25 03:08:10 ZimCS: the rest are cowards! ;) Jul 25 03:08:17 hah Jul 25 03:08:21 As of today, I wouldn't recommend the FR as a daily use phone. Jul 25 03:08:31 basically the software is stil not al lthere Jul 25 03:08:35 if u want a reliable phone... Jul 25 03:08:42 FR isnt there yet Jul 25 03:08:48 tho it will improve over time Jul 25 03:08:48 i'll hold off then Jul 25 03:08:56 Is there a place where i can download the pkg-config files for openmoko? So that i can set cflags and such when building an ap? Jul 25 03:09:19 orzo: why arent u using openembedded? Jul 25 03:09:23 orzo: you want to build/create a single app? Or do you want to use a whole image? Jul 25 03:09:29 orzo: and why would u want to set the cflags? Jul 25 03:09:46 tat sjhouldbe dynamically determined at build time with openembedded Jul 25 03:09:49 i want to build a single ap and i need to set the linker flags for gstreamer Jul 25 03:09:55 orzo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Developing_a_single_application Jul 25 03:10:23 "however as an application programmer, you should not be using OpenEmbedded. " Jul 25 03:10:29 It's not as simple as some pkg-config files. Jul 25 03:10:31 u really dont want to go harcoding pkgconfig output into a build file (makfile etc.) Jul 25 03:10:52 yup Jul 25 03:10:54 orzo: skip down to "Basic toolchain usage" Jul 25 03:10:57 its a LOT more Jul 25 03:11:14 my SUGGESTIOn is to just get a whole openembedded (openmoko) tree to build Jul 25 03:11:20 it allows u to be upt ot date Jul 25 03:11:33 and gives u a huge set of examples to work off in the tree Jul 25 03:11:37 when building .bb files Jul 25 03:11:40 orzo: What distribution are you running? Jul 25 03:11:49 unbuntu Jul 25 03:11:52 in the long run - it'll be easier Jul 25 03:12:17 The mokomakefile may work OK for you - it's been a pain (mostly inoperative) for me with Fedora. Jul 25 03:12:18 and yes - i know. if al u want to do is build a single app thats a mountain of crap to downlod and build first Jul 25 03:12:34 but right now the OS images are heavily moving targets Jul 25 03:12:57 adsllc: i use mokoemakefile on ubuntu Jul 25 03:12:57 what does om-conf do? Jul 25 03:12:58 works ok Jul 25 03:14:12 i had mokomakefile running but it made no output and I thought it was hung and stopped it Jul 25 03:14:40 well, it made some output, but it stopped outputting Jul 25 03:14:51 without a "please wait" or anything Jul 25 03:14:56 heh Jul 25 03:16:26 I think om-conf is what i needed Jul 25 03:18:26 It's coming back to me (it's been a few days) - but I think that om-conf ran autotools and ./configure for you - don't run ./autogen.sh again. I believe the note questioning whether it's out of date is correct. Jul 25 03:18:40 If you confirm that it's not needed, please update the page. Jul 25 03:20:22 it failed for a similar reason that autogen.sh failed for me when i ran it myself Jul 25 03:20:34 it doesn't know about gstreamer Jul 25 03:20:41 do i have to download gstreamer and build it? Jul 25 03:21:39 standby. Jul 25 03:22:54 for action Jul 25 03:23:19 my build of openmoko-mediaplayer2 plays only a brief blip of each track. It uses gstreamer. Jul 25 03:24:16 Mine does pretty much the same thing usually. I don't think audio is particularly stable yet. Jul 25 03:24:35 well i can play stuff from teh command line Jul 25 03:24:44 You may want to try compiling on the FR itself - 'opkg install gstreamer-dev' should work. Jul 25 03:24:57 its not a freerunner Jul 25 03:25:01 its neo1973 Jul 25 03:25:43 i'm supprised you suggest compiling on it.. gcc isn't even installed Jul 25 03:26:01 I have no experience with the 1973 Jul 25 03:26:29 is gcc installed on the FR? Jul 25 03:26:31 'opkg update ; opkg install gcc gstearmer libc6-dev' doesn't do anything for you? Jul 25 03:26:42 orzo: not by default, but it's in the repo. Jul 25 03:26:53 is there a wiki page that explains how to interact with the various devices? for example reading touchscreen input? Jul 25 03:27:18 peepsalot: not that I know of, but it should be standard X11. Jul 25 03:27:21 I don't think i want to install build tools on it Jul 25 03:27:31 i want a cross build environment Jul 25 03:27:36 orzo: s perfectly possible to do so Jul 25 03:27:49 ok Jul 25 03:27:49 orzo: often a native build env - though REALLY slow is the easiest Jul 25 03:28:09 then again openembedded doesnt make things fast.. if u are doing development Jul 25 03:28:20 if u nfs mount your dev directoyr/source Jul 25 03:28:24 and maybe /usr/local Jul 25 03:28:27 onto the FR Jul 25 03:28:31 via wifi or usbnet Jul 25 03:28:47 then u'll have pretty much unlimited storage Jul 25 03:29:09 u can edit your source on your deskto as normaland simply have an ssh session onto the Fr to type "make && make install" Jul 25 03:29:19 its not that clean Jul 25 03:29:32 but if u want to have a simple dev system that works... with minimal hassles Jul 25 03:29:43 its probably the easiest way to go Jul 25 03:29:56 hi, i'm trying to setup WPA. i created wpa_supplicant.conf but it just says "No lease, failing" -- with verbose, i see "run-parts: /etc/udhcpc.d/00avahi-autoipd exited with return code 1" Jul 25 03:30:00 with a script or 2 u can make it all almost automated Jul 25 03:30:17 have you done it Jul 25 03:30:33 DasSchizy: I see the same with no ill effect - my WPA works fine, usually on the fourth DHCP request. Jul 25 03:30:58 orzo: no i havent - not on the FR, but i have done it on other embedded systems with much less cpu and massively less flash! Jul 25 03:31:21 adsllc: hmm, do i need to ifdown usb0 for it to work? i have both usb0 and eth0 up Jul 25 03:31:36 DasSchizy: No need to ifdown usb0. Jul 25 03:32:21 adsllc: okay, what do you mean by on the fourth DHCP request? i see "Sending discover..." x3 and then "No lease, failing" Jul 25 03:32:57 orzo: i do ssh into my fr a lot tho and have auotmated setup ot usb0, routing, nat, masquerading etc. Jul 25 03:33:09 so its a 1 line script to ssh into my FR when i plug it in. Jul 25 03:33:46 I see 4 "Sending discover..." lines then IP addresses start to get assigned. Jul 25 03:33:51 Are you using the default image? Jul 25 03:34:00 yeah, i just unpacked the freerunner Jul 25 03:34:21 ping: bad address 'www.yahoo.com' Jul 25 03:34:29 (and i havent customised my fr os etc. config because i reflash at least 2 or 3 times a day... Jul 25 03:34:33 if not more Jul 25 03:34:40 cant reach the outside world Jul 25 03:34:58 DasSchizy: have you done the 'opkg upgrade' thing yet? Jul 25 03:35:11 Aww, poor raster. Jul 25 03:35:12 tried Jul 25 03:35:13 adsllc: no, not yet, let me try that Jul 25 03:35:16 * Dave introduces Raster to Net Jul 25 03:35:24 nothing but raster Jul 25 03:35:33 Dave: net? Jul 25 03:35:48 trashy American culture reference Jul 25 03:36:13 * raster stares bemusedly wondering what net might be... Jul 25 03:37:58 hrm Jul 25 03:38:16 is there any actual explanation anywhere on building the uImage image? Jul 25 03:38:48 * nullpuppy wants to combine mwester's kernel suspend fixes with the latest gps fixes Jul 25 03:45:09 nullpuppy: yes Jul 25 03:45:28 http://stian.lunafish.org/blog-20080615-1.php Jul 25 03:45:50 i've built my kernels with debian lenny Jul 25 03:46:14 swc|666: sweet. thanks Jul 25 03:46:24 u need uboot-mkimage package Jul 25 03:46:28 np ;) Jul 25 03:47:09 nullpuppy: also once u get the make part, do another unset LDFLAGS for good measure Jul 25 03:47:16 alright. i'll look for that in a bit. gotta do a git clone first, and find the damn patchsets i need;) Jul 25 03:47:22 k Jul 25 03:48:47 where are the patches? Jul 25 03:48:57 they arent incorporated into the latest image? Jul 25 03:49:42 hello there Jul 25 03:51:02 How do you get the ASU to put the FR in stand by mode? Is that what "suspend after blank" is supposed to be doing? Jul 25 03:52:14 what font package do I need to have text in gtk apps appear as something other than blocks? Jul 25 03:54:48 has anyone been able to get an ATT 71234 D 2022 SIM Card to work? Jul 25 03:56:00 AntonTakk: what app speciffically? Jul 25 03:56:12 tangogps and agpsui Jul 25 03:56:36 what rootfs? its not 2007 is it Jul 25 03:56:42 no, asu Jul 25 03:59:26 you know thats like an year old right? Jul 25 03:59:36 what is? Jul 25 04:01:43 Hi everybody, hope you've been enjoying your FreeRunners. I was wondering if anybody had found out about warranty information for the GTA02 which I purchased direct from the online store((http://us.direct.openmoko.com/) I see "Return Policy --14 day DOA (Single Pack)" but here are no links to any information about what to do if there is a problem. Unfortunately for me, the AUX button on my phone is broken, and I would prefer to Jul 25 04:01:43 fix it under a warranty if I have one. Am I allowed to open the case to diagnose the problem myself or would it void the warranty? Who do I contact at openmoko to ask, I've sent multiple emails to all of the mailing lists on the "contact us" page, and have only just received a response today (3 days later) and only now to be told that they will forward my email to a person who can help. Sorry for such a long post, any info at al Jul 25 04:01:43 l would be helpful :) Jul 25 04:01:55 jesus christ Jul 25 04:02:07 lol, sorry :) Jul 25 04:02:16 that deserves a pastie. Jul 25 04:02:32 noshit the hole net is gonna lag now Jul 25 04:02:57 whole Jul 25 04:03:28 ryansv_: There isn't much else to be done, sorry. The "contact us" page or @openmoko addresses are the only ones who can say for sure. Although someone @openmoko has posted on -community stating that opening the case doesn't void the warranty. Search for yourself to be sure, tho' ;) Jul 25 04:04:07 didnt the neo's ship outside of their cases? Jul 25 04:05:04 Thanks, I looked through the community list and saw that, but thats the only info elsewhere I've found. I just wanted to get confirmation before I try to fix it myself. Jul 25 04:05:31 ryansv_: sorry, most everyone on here are just end users. Jul 25 04:05:53 i disagree Jul 25 04:06:21 I think that if you opened your case & Openmoko refused to honour your warranty you could cite that message, but personally I'd just return it & let them fix it Jul 25 04:06:47 how do i connect the gsm modem? or figure out if my sim card works or not... Jul 25 04:06:52 just tear the sucker open, most exotic tool you'll need is a torx wrench Jul 25 04:07:58 A 6x40 torx wrench, went to home depot and picked up a set yesterday Jul 25 04:08:05 stroller i'm gonna quote those comments and laugh at em for a long long time Jul 25 04:08:21 which ones are those? Jul 25 04:08:26 * Jul 25 04:08:39 yeah Jul 25 04:08:53 personally, i don't think many of us are 'just end users' Jul 25 04:08:57 So anyways, how are the other images, I'm dying to try them but I can't flash my freerunner without the use of my aux button Jul 25 04:09:09 nullpuppy: do you work for Openmoko? Jul 25 04:09:14 Stroller: nope Jul 25 04:09:27 Stroller: i wouldn't mind that though. Jul 25 04:10:05 Well, then, from a warranty perspective you are just an end-user. A "buyer" if you prefer. But you're not able to legally give ryansv_ advice about his warranty, are you? Jul 25 04:10:15 seriously if your afraid to crack the case open then wtf did you buy one, i mean its up in lights practicaly that this is more or less a beta device Jul 25 04:10:33 if you want a warranty go buy an iphone Jul 25 04:10:34 raster headed out? Jul 25 04:11:18 i am just an enduser Jul 25 04:11:26 but that's why i haven't bought one yet :] Jul 25 04:11:31 wastrel: why would you buy this phone, then? Jul 25 04:11:31 Stroller: sure, i'm not legally able to give legal advice about the warranty, but then, i wasn't commenting (at least not directly) on that anyways Jul 25 04:12:06 kd8ikt: oh, naff off. I'm shitty at soldering, there's no chance of me fixing surface mount. If the phone's arrived broken then why should I try? Jul 25 04:12:22 Stroller: and even then.. lots of people are only messing with the software and have no interest in necessarily opening the thing up (at least not yet( Jul 25 04:12:30 I wasn't expecting to find legal advice anyways, just wondering if anybody else had tried looking into it Jul 25 04:12:35 who said anything about solder? Jul 25 04:13:01 nullpuppy: exactly. That's why I wouldn't bother opening it. Jul 25 04:13:03 Stroller: I don't think he was giving legal advice; it seemed clearly his personal opinion to me. Jul 25 04:13:37 ryansv_: from what i've heard on the ML, they are working on a way to do the hw fix. and from the sounds of it, they are more then open to letting you open it up and fix it yourself Jul 25 04:13:52 give me a moemnt and i'll fidn the thread Jul 25 04:14:11 cjb: *sigh* what is this gang up on Stroller day? I was just saying that none if us work for Openmoko Jul 25 04:14:12 wow, that would be great Jul 25 04:14:49 They're working to do a hardware fix on the AUX BUTTON, nullpuppy ? Jul 25 04:15:23 So... I'm fairly sure the aux button wasn't soldered on to the board fully, which is surface mount, and it's 4 pins. I'm not well skilled with a soldering iron, and I definitely don't have a fine enough tip or steady hand to comfortably solder my new toy :) Jul 25 04:15:43 Stroller: aux button? oh... Jul 25 04:15:47 :P Jul 25 04:15:48 that i have no flipping clue about Jul 25 04:15:50 ;) Jul 25 04:15:53 whats up with that? Jul 25 04:16:11 ryansv_: where abouts are you located? Jul 25 04:16:27 Massachusetts, USA Jul 25 04:16:40 you? Jul 25 04:16:50 and as i was mentioning.. this is for the GPS fix.. buit still... http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/openmoko-community/2008/7/22/2623094 Jul 25 04:16:59 (long thread though.. but thats the post i was refering to) Jul 25 04:17:08 and i'm roughly in Seattle, WA Jul 25 04:17:10 UAS Jul 25 04:17:13 *USA Jul 25 04:18:09 oh, I have some family out there :) Jul 25 04:18:19 awesome ;) Jul 25 04:18:41 I should go out and visit them someday :P Jul 25 04:18:46 indeed ;) Jul 25 04:19:00 i have a soldering iron that could solder two gnats dicks together Jul 25 04:19:08 so far, i'm not at all impressed with the appearance of the invisible shield Jul 25 04:19:24 hopefully over night it cures and looks better Jul 25 04:19:24 hows it with glare? Jul 25 04:19:39 have not tested yet Jul 25 04:19:45 just got done applying it Jul 25 04:19:48 recheck the screen in sunlight Jul 25 04:19:49 i used to live in MA Jul 25 04:19:59 if so i might grab one Jul 25 04:20:19 yeah, i'll be able to take pictures of the neo1973 v the freerunner with the invisible shield Jul 25 04:20:26 i got the full body coverage, though Jul 25 04:20:42 recommendation: do the edges first to learn how to work with the material Jul 25 04:20:50 daMaestro: did you get the full body or just screen shield? Jul 25 04:20:58 i [sorta] screwed up my from cover one Jul 25 04:21:02 ryansv_, full body Jul 25 04:21:34 daMaestro: yeah, I would love to see pics of it, I've been thinking about getting one myself Jul 25 04:21:37 ryansv_: oh, btw, do you have a debug board? Jul 25 04:21:52 nullpuppy: no, unfortunately Jul 25 04:21:56 ryansv_, i might have really screwed up the one that goes over the screen Jul 25 04:22:05 ok Jul 25 04:22:07 so i might be buying another one of those (assuming it want to keep it) Jul 25 04:22:25 it takes some skill to put it on correctly Jul 25 04:22:45 ryansv_: and, i'm sorry, i didn't hear what the exact problem you were having.. what exactly is going on? Jul 25 04:22:57 daMaestro: oh, well my roommate who also has the device bought the screen shield, so I can convince him to put pics online if he does a good job Jul 25 04:23:00 ryansv_, kd8ikt overall it seems like it's going to be worth the money... but let me test it for a while and see what i think Jul 25 04:23:27 ryansv_, yeah.. i have one air bubble (very small) that might piss me off a lot Jul 25 04:23:59 Err.. okay, I'll bite. Why does the topic say 850s in stock, but I don't see purchase options on the website? Jul 25 04:24:27 nullpuppy: The aux button on my phone doesn't respond.. I think it's due to it coming off the board because of a bad soldering job initially Jul 25 04:24:28 cos no one change the topic yet Jul 25 04:24:30 it's actually been a lot of work, more then i would have wanted to do Jul 25 04:24:51 Ah, okay, thanks Jul 25 04:25:04 ryansv_: ok, so it doesn't work in any context? (like even after the phone is booted up with the factory firmware) Jul 25 04:26:27 nullpuppy: nope, no response, no click... and sometimes I can hear button occasionally rattle around in the case Jul 25 04:26:37 ryansv_: ok. damn :/ Jul 25 04:26:50 tried emailing the support list? Jul 25 04:27:01 daMaestro: ok, thanks for the warning, I'll pass it on to my roommate Jul 25 04:27:22 * Chocky installs task-openmoko-qtopia-x11 Jul 25 04:27:32 list is full of crap and people who have no clue how to use email. Jul 25 04:27:32 nullpuppy: yup, tried all the mailing lists on the "contact" page Jul 25 04:27:45 ok Jul 25 04:29:56 from Chelsea Wei cc "Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu)" Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:31 PM subject Re: Fwd: Warranty Question - FreeRunner AUX button not responding --- Hi Ryan, I am forwarding your request to Tony Tu, our customer support. He will be able to help you. Thanks for your interest in our project! -Chelsea Wei Openmoko, Inc. Jul 25 04:29:57 i've always hated screen protectors Jul 25 04:30:08 customer support <3 Jul 25 04:30:51 sddgfadgdsf Jul 25 04:30:54 oh Jul 25 04:31:03 It said Ryan which is why it flashed Jul 25 04:32:01 ryansv_: awesome. good luck then. Jul 25 04:36:44 and just like that, I have qtopia without reflashing :o Jul 25 04:37:17 SO Can u use soapy water to correctly install the protector? Jul 25 04:37:22 i love bitwise operators Jul 25 04:37:32 * Chocky inverts linty Jul 25 04:37:49 like a decal? Jul 25 04:38:11 shorting the device is bad Jul 25 04:38:29 if( rand_bool ) rand_bool=0;else rand_bool = 1; becomes rand_bool ^= 1; Jul 25 04:38:36 http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=asu&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2 Jul 25 04:38:37 er. Jul 25 04:39:07 Will the emulation on computer be significantly slower than the device itself? I tried it out and it ran at snails pace O.o Jul 25 04:39:14 yes. Jul 25 04:42:04 ieatlint you have an update of lintwifi? Jul 25 04:45:38 http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/openmoko-neo-freerunner-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php Jul 25 04:46:35 i've been coding Jul 25 04:46:46 i am implementing one more thing, and then you'll have an update Jul 25 04:46:55 it now much better supports connecting and the like :P Jul 25 04:47:22 ok Jul 25 04:47:36 the password popup will have a toggle to hide/show the password, and to save the password in the wpa config file Jul 25 04:47:50 it'll also now start wpa_supplicant and udhcpc if you don't have it already running Jul 25 04:50:33 excellent! Jul 25 04:50:44 i'm trying to boot from sd. i'm getting a whole bunch of "mmcblk0: error -110..." can i get help trouble shooting? Jul 25 04:51:08 I did add the matchbox kb Jul 25 04:52:05 yeah, i need to lookup the api to trigger the keyboard popping up Jul 25 04:52:53 k Jul 25 04:56:28 nice Jul 25 04:57:50 i don't know how well it supports wep... wep is kinda funky, someone will have to tell me how it goes Jul 25 04:58:05 when i release it, i'll pretty much only be able to confirm that it works with wpa Jul 25 04:58:08 * Chocky haz wep Jul 25 04:58:14 anyone have any expierence building C++ apps with the OpenMoko toolchain? Jul 25 04:58:24 I can't get it to find the iostream library :P Jul 25 04:59:08 isnt hard to fire up wep real fast but i highly doubt it'll have problems Jul 25 04:59:44 dude i fricken hate the toolchain Jul 25 04:59:53 cant compile crap Jul 25 05:00:01 * CaptObviousman hasn't tried it yet, but doesn't look forward Jul 25 05:00:22 Dave. Jul 25 05:01:17 hrms Jul 25 05:01:27 should I use something else to build my packages? Jul 25 05:01:28 * Chocky wants a pants daemon Jul 25 05:02:26 looks like the freerunners are supposed to arive today Jul 25 05:02:33 in usa Jul 25 05:03:45 ohs Jul 25 05:03:49 headset for your FR: http://shopping.yahoo.com/?name=woot#woot Jul 25 05:03:51 I allready have my US free runner :P Jul 25 05:04:01 * Chocky already has mine. Jul 25 05:04:26 I feel kind of bad for takeing all the bad unboxing photos and then being on slashdot :P Jul 25 05:04:35 I probably should have figured out how to use my camera first.... Jul 25 05:04:47 I've been wandering around the wiki and have a quick question.. Jul 25 05:05:35 I see screeshots showing many apps in the Today but I only have 5 things in mine. Is it all added with ipkg? Jul 25 05:05:50 This is new FR just arrived today. Jul 25 05:06:01 Should I blast a new OS image on there? Jul 25 05:06:04 opkg is the tool Jul 25 05:06:10 for starters, yes Jul 25 05:06:27 How can I find out what is installed on it? Jul 25 05:06:36 opkg list_installed Jul 25 05:06:46 ah, I think I have 'ipkg' on the brain from the N770 Jul 25 05:07:05 But the overall OS version, is there something in /etc ? Jul 25 05:07:47 look at /etc/issue Jul 25 05:08:05 so how bad is the openmoko sw from a nontechie POV? Jul 25 05:08:16 real bad ;-) Jul 25 05:08:22 gambler: horrible :P Jul 25 05:08:23 wait a few months Jul 25 05:08:38 :p Jul 25 05:08:41 But man when you see the boot messages scrolling on that tiny screen. Fantastic. Jul 25 05:08:46 I want everything to run Linux. Jul 25 05:09:19 what is the responsiveness like? I saw a video of GTA01 and i was shocked at how sluggish it was Jul 25 05:09:31 I hadn't been able to read it yet but there's some ascii art something when I shutdown in the messages. awesome Jul 25 05:09:39 dino-: still pretty crappy, but its getting better Jul 25 05:09:55 nullpuppy: no no, I love it already Jul 25 05:10:08 erm, that should have been directed to gambler Jul 25 05:10:15 i apparently can't read tonight ;) Jul 25 05:10:19 Already worked as a phone with my sim, sms too. Jul 25 05:10:22 I still have no idea what "Exposure" does Jul 25 05:10:22 How cool is that. Jul 25 05:10:33 dino-: awesome, same here;) Jul 25 05:11:14 In any case, that was my main question: brand new FR, blow away the OS with new? yes Jul 25 05:11:24 or opkg update if you want Jul 25 05:11:48 opkg update && opkg upgrade ? Jul 25 05:11:50 that's "easier", but might take just as long Jul 25 05:11:56 why all the seperate software stacks? it seems really flip floppy bad Jul 25 05:11:56 you might have to upgrade dropbear first Jul 25 05:13:13 gambler: 2007.2 is the original, ASU is an interim update, FSO is the target Jul 25 05:13:14 Chocky: Ok, so opkg install dropbear Jul 25 05:13:24 Then opkg upgrade ? Jul 25 05:13:31 try this: Jul 25 05:13:34 opkg update Jul 25 05:13:37 essentially... they decided fixing 2007.2 was too difficult and should start from scratch to make soemthing good and usable. Jul 25 05:13:41 what is FSO is that the qtopia stack? Jul 25 05:13:47 opkg install dropbear >/dev/null 2>&1 & Jul 25 05:13:47 no Jul 25 05:13:52 FSO is freesmartphone.org Jul 25 05:13:53 ssh back in Jul 25 05:13:56 opkg upgrade Jul 25 05:14:03 ASU == openmoko's qtopia stack Jul 25 05:14:07 2007.2 == gtk Jul 25 05:14:21 then qtopia itself has a build as well ;) Jul 25 05:15:09 Chocky: ok, thank you Jul 25 05:15:15 meh, what does FSO use opengl? Jul 25 05:15:28 Curious, why the redirection during dropbear install? Jul 25 05:15:50 to detach. it might not be required any more Jul 25 05:21:10 has anybody attempted to get wine to compile on any of the stacks? Jul 25 05:21:14 lol Jul 25 05:21:18 no! Jul 25 05:21:27 ok, so with the keyboard auto-popping up for lint-wifi Jul 25 05:21:28 someone please explain ARM Jul 25 05:21:40 turns out if the password is visible, the keyboard auto pops up Jul 25 05:21:55 I saw the video of OpenMoko running on the Palm TX, kind of unbelievable! Jul 25 05:21:59 if it is not visible (****..), the keyboard won't show itself Jul 25 05:22:03 I pretty much gave up on all Palm everything so long ago. Jul 25 05:22:17 that's funny Jul 25 05:22:40 2 birds with one line of code Jul 25 05:23:21 Qtopia still annoys the hell out of me Jul 25 05:24:38 hm, a lot of "Failed to download" stuff from that opkg update. Is that normal? Jul 25 05:24:41 i'm just testing my own code, working out syntax errors Jul 25 05:24:45 maybe Jul 25 05:24:49 new version will be out very soon Jul 25 05:24:51 helps to barm binariese able to see your pass Jul 25 05:33:13 ah, problem was pango needed pango-module-basic-* :) Jul 25 05:33:22 Ah, that ascii art in /etc/issue for Angstrom is what I was seeing briefly during shutdown. Jul 25 05:33:41 hello Jul 25 05:34:06 i tried to install gllin from the wiki-linked ipkg file Jul 25 05:34:14 i saw someone mention mplayer for the fr earlier - is there a gui? and how does it perform? Jul 25 05:34:16 opkg is complaining about "invalid magic" Jul 25 05:35:12 orzo: FYI gllin is only for gta01 Jul 25 05:35:21 a gta01 is what i have Jul 25 05:35:28 am i the only one who uses it anymore? Jul 25 05:35:30 morning Jul 25 05:35:40 Hm, upgrade says nothing to be done. Jul 25 05:37:32 What version should I have seen from that dropbear upgrade? It says I have 0.49-r1 Jul 25 05:40:14 ok Jul 25 05:40:16 nevermind Jul 25 05:40:38 orzo: :( I just got a gta02 today Jul 25 05:40:41 i used wget to grab the ipk and it saved an html file with that name Jul 25 05:40:59 i just read something on the wiki about the gps interfering with the flash card Jul 25 05:41:09 is that out of date? (i mean for gta02) Jul 25 05:41:13 heh just watched harold & kumar Jul 25 05:41:28 orzo: it's completely fixed in software, I think Jul 25 05:42:27 do they still sell gta01s? Jul 25 05:42:42 No Jul 25 05:44:16 i forget, is the andy tree up to date with the sdcard/gps fixes? Jul 25 05:44:58 they really should give the gta01 owners a deal on gta02 Jul 25 05:45:50 what is the dhcp client on freerunner? Jul 25 05:45:55 udhcpc Jul 25 05:45:56 udhcpc Jul 25 05:46:21 thanks Jul 25 05:46:28 Hm, not sure what to do. opkg won't install anything. Says everything is up to date. Jul 25 05:46:49 orzo: would be a nice gesture, but Openmoko prolly aren't rolling in money right now. They already cut the price of the FR down to the bine Jul 25 05:47:13 how much is it Jul 25 05:47:21 400? Jul 25 05:47:26 $400, I think Jul 25 05:47:29 yes, 400 Jul 25 05:47:36 £272 from a reseller, inc VAT Jul 25 05:51:11 python be acting weird Jul 25 05:51:20 Oh, this could be because I can't get to anywhere from the FR. I wonder if I need to do the iptables things too. Jul 25 05:51:45 x = "2.422" ; print x.strip(".") == "2.422" Jul 25 05:52:12 does .strip only work on alnum? or does it work on punctuation and women, too? Jul 25 05:52:25 heh Jul 25 05:52:30 mm, you have to do the resolv.conf business on the FR? Jul 25 05:53:50 ieatlint, try help(x.strip) I dont think it does what you want. A small hackaround with my bastardized skills would be x.split('.', '') x=x[0] Jul 25 05:54:08 Bla bla Jul 25 05:54:11 oops Jul 25 05:54:14 wrong windo Jul 25 05:54:16 that wouldn't work Jul 25 05:54:30 i could use split as hack-around, but strip does work as i think it does Jul 25 05:54:37 hell, in the docs they demonstrate it Jul 25 05:54:59 'www.example.com'.strip('cmowz.') == 'example' Jul 25 05:55:19 right there, removing a period Jul 25 05:55:37 strip only works on the beginning and end chars of strings Jul 25 05:55:48 Very late, have to go. Thank you for the help. Jul 25 05:55:58 weird Jul 25 05:56:14 oh... now that makes sense now Jul 25 05:56:43 x.replace(".", "") Jul 25 05:56:49 yep, already writing it :) Jul 25 06:02:44 I am trying to boot up in qtopia via MicroSD on neo - I have done all the steps from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_FreeRunner, but when I boot I get a "kernel panic" Jul 25 06:04:00 Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2) Jul 25 06:05:53 i'm getting 404 on every .sig, so opkg update fails. how do i fix that? Jul 25 06:06:06 ozzloy: it doesn't fail Jul 25 06:06:14 there just aren't any sigs on the server Jul 25 06:06:56 /j #stumbleupon Jul 25 06:07:08 Fossi: is there a way to know that opkg update actually worked? Jul 25 06:07:47 ozzloy: upgrade? well, if it only says that the sigs failed and no packages.gz, then everything is ok Jul 25 06:08:15 not upgrade, update Jul 25 06:08:53 oh upgrade is doing lots of things Jul 25 06:08:55 yes. a way to find out is to upgrade Jul 25 06:09:32 am i possibly upgrading to an unstable version? Jul 25 06:10:24 well, currently my updated openmoko doesn't start X, but i have loads of other repositories and packages installed Jul 25 06:10:31 so i can't really tell ;) Jul 25 06:10:33 * ozzloy is scared Jul 25 06:10:49 well, there's nothing that can't be turned back Jul 25 06:10:55 oh? Jul 25 06:11:03 does anyone have comments to my problem? Jul 25 06:11:13 kernel panic Jul 25 06:11:22 jakobsg: i am unable to boot from sd either Jul 25 06:11:38 jakobsg: oh you might have the wrong fs Jul 25 06:11:42 havent tried booting from sd Jul 25 06:12:10 jakobsg: you need to make sure you have the right ext Jul 25 06:12:30 thats what I'm trying, but my extn wont get mounted during boot Jul 25 06:12:43 I have tried both ext2 and ext3 Jul 25 06:12:56 jakobsg: the vfs thing means you don't have the filesystem drivers compiled into the boot image i think Jul 25 06:13:23 technically i can boot from sd, but i don't get passed the boot screen Jul 25 06:13:51 But the boot image is delivered in the qtopia tarball Jul 25 06:14:22 jakobsg: i've been trying to boot 2007.2, don't know about the qtopia tarball Jul 25 06:14:57 do i want to keep /etc/pulse/default.pa or do i want to install the package maintainer's version? Jul 25 06:15:12 depends Jul 25 06:15:26 i didn't make any changes to it Jul 25 06:15:29 if you changed it, you should prolly have a look at the changes Jul 25 06:15:32 but some script might have? Jul 25 06:15:38 if you didn't you want the new version Jul 25 06:15:43 well, have a look Jul 25 06:16:27 i'm looking, but i don't really know what the differences mean Jul 25 06:16:45 well, then either understand them, or just do whatever Jul 25 06:16:56 and repair afterwards if there are problems ;) Jul 25 06:17:07 heh, ok Jul 25 06:18:21 phew, cancelled support-list membership Jul 25 06:18:29 much too much traffic Jul 25 06:19:33 Anyone figure out a fix to the buzzing interference for the Freerunner? Jul 25 06:19:39 how can i start a gui app on phone from a remote shell? Jul 25 06:19:59 DISPLAY=:0.0 command Jul 25 06:20:08 http://pastebin.org/56903 can someone look at that and tell me which one i want? Jul 25 06:20:09 I tried taking out the SD card, but that did not stop the buzzing interference sound for me or the person on the other side of the phone call. Jul 25 06:20:16 i need hand holding on this one Jul 25 06:20:26 dejones: It'll probably be fixed about the same time as the feedback on speakerphone Jul 25 06:20:27 or could someone explain what the differences are? Jul 25 06:20:57 ozzloy - looking Jul 25 06:21:22 rivalarrival: Oh? Do they expect a software fix for it? Jul 25 06:21:34 rivalarrival: thanks! Jul 25 06:21:48 screen is handy for this Jul 25 06:21:49 dejones: Software fixes it on every other phone - it's just noise from the GSM radio. Jul 25 06:21:59 dejones: i have never encountered either of those problems, thou feedback on speaker phone I have Jul 25 06:22:24 it looks like rather than hard coding the paths, things are being checked more abstractly Jul 25 06:22:46 rivalarrival: Ahh. Is there a patch or "opkg upgrade" that I can install to fix it? Jul 25 06:22:51 and error checking on whether to load the esound module Jul 25 06:23:05 dejones: Not that I know of... In the meantime, try a different image - Qtopia was much louder than ASU for me. Jul 25 06:23:11 AntonTakk: There seems to be a bug report about it, and I am having the same problem. http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/883 Jul 25 06:23:24 ozzloy: I'm having issues with pastebin... Jul 25 06:23:53 rivalarrival: do you prefer some other one? Jul 25 06:24:06 rivalarrival: which image do you recommend...? Jul 25 06:24:34 or ... what do you mean? Jul 25 06:24:36 I haven't experimented to much... Lot of people like Qtopia, lot like ASU. Jul 25 06:24:55 ozzloy: Like, it's not loading. Jul 25 06:25:28 rivalarrival: kk, hold on i'll paste it elsewhere Jul 25 06:26:29 i may have to try qtopia this weekend Jul 25 06:26:31 http://rafb.net/p/B6HLNd84.html rivalarrival Jul 25 06:26:38 asu works great for me thou Jul 25 06:26:46 aside from being a bit slow Jul 25 06:27:26 I think I'll try ASU. :) Jul 25 06:28:02 I guess there isn't a "stable" build of ASU yet? Jul 25 06:29:20 no, but asu is more stable than win mobile was for me Jul 25 06:29:36 is that a high bar? Jul 25 06:29:41 ozzloy: Huh. Looks like you got a problem there. Hope you figure it out! (Sorry, it's over my head) Jul 25 06:29:53 AntonTakk: I just want the buzzing interference to go away... Jul 25 06:29:54 :) Jul 25 06:30:11 ozzloy: unfortunately, not really, was rebooting win mobile several times a day Jul 25 06:30:19 dejones: If you shut off the GSM radio, the buzzing should go away. ;-) Jul 25 06:30:32 rivalarrival: heh. that's cool. i'll just go with the maintainer's version Jul 25 06:30:32 reboot the fr maybe once every three days, max Jul 25 06:30:40 rivalarrival: thanks for looking though Jul 25 06:30:40 rivalarrival: Haha. That's not helpful. :P Jul 25 06:31:03 hi Jul 25 06:31:15 is it possible somehow Jul 25 06:31:26 dejones: It's not my fault if you didn't clearly describe the problem! :) Jul 25 06:31:27 to receive sms messages in my computer threw the cell phone? Jul 25 06:32:50 blackthorne: you could ssh into the phone and probably read the sms messages wherever they're stored on the cell Jul 25 06:32:50 blackthorne: i know there is a gnome/*nix app for it using bt, but not sure the om software will work with it atm Jul 25 06:32:52 rivalarrival: Have you tried the Qtopia image? Jul 25 06:33:16 i am speaking to you Jul 25 06:33:24 because my cell phone is damaged Jul 25 06:33:28 man i hope this upgrade doesn't comletely brick my fr Jul 25 06:33:34 it works, except the screen Jul 25 06:33:41 dejones: I tried it for a few days - I liked it, it seemed more mature than the other images. Jul 25 06:33:50 which means that only SMS messages are not possible to use Jul 25 06:34:13 rivalarrival: but, you changed to a different image later? or are you still using the Qtopia image? Jul 25 06:34:19 ozzloy: It's pretty hard to brick it with the NOR uboot. Jul 25 06:34:52 rivalarrival: i don't know how to flash just yet Jul 25 06:34:57 dejones: I went to ASU because it seemed like most of the development was in that area. Jul 25 06:35:04 maybe that would be easier than trying to boot microsd? Jul 25 06:35:20 has anyone here flashed the fr? Jul 25 06:35:31 ozzloy: It was about the easiest thing I've ever done. Downloaded two files, ran two commands in the shell Jul 25 06:35:46 interesting Jul 25 06:36:00 from what i have read, the only way to truely brick the fr (can't even be fixed with jtag) would involve damaging the cirtuitry Jul 25 06:36:02 rivalarrival: ASU is not very usable with your finger? Even for tasks like dialing? Jul 25 06:36:09 ssh seems to solve it Jul 25 06:36:11 i'm going to have to try it tomorrow then. Jul 25 06:36:30 dejones: i can dial with fingers just fine here Jul 25 06:36:38 dejones: Seems OK to me. Jul 25 06:36:40 dejones: using daily from 7/15 Jul 25 06:36:52 :) Jul 25 06:36:54 thanks Jul 25 06:37:02 thanks AntonTakk and rivalarrival Jul 25 06:37:05 rivalarrival: will you be on in about 20 hours? Jul 25 06:37:22 ozzloy: Probably... Hold on a sec Jul 25 06:37:22 welp, night all Jul 25 06:37:32 rivalarrival: and if so, can you walk me through flashing? Jul 25 06:37:33 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner ozzloy Jul 25 06:37:35 AntonTakk: night Jul 25 06:37:57 i've read that, but i'm a scaredy cat Jul 25 06:38:05 got to go to work so i can pay cell phone bills so i can have service so i can convince my self to buy the next om device :) Jul 25 06:38:35 and it's late. so i'm going to be leaving as soon as i attempt to reboot after this opkg upgrade. whether it works or not Jul 25 06:38:35 ozzloy: You can't break it without exceptional effort. Jul 25 06:39:05 Worst case, you have to pull the battery to shut it down. Jul 25 06:39:09 rivalarrival: what's that quote about building a better idiot? that idiot is me Jul 25 06:39:30 but hey, i got the wifi up and running Jul 25 06:39:53 Well, unless you try to reprogram it with a hammer, I think you're safe. Jul 25 06:39:53 so at least i can use that to opkg upgrade Jul 25 06:39:57 hehe Jul 25 06:40:02 Pulling the battery seems very safe, I pull my battery all the time. Jul 25 06:40:02 that reminds me... Jul 25 06:40:34 http://blog.kiniek.eu.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/asus_repair_kit_big.jpg Jul 25 06:41:02 I pull my battery a couple times a day... I find it relaxing, solves a lot of problems... Jul 25 06:41:25 railer: I haven't had to pull my battery in a few days. Jul 25 06:41:25 yeah, i pulled the battery a couple times when trying to boot from microsd Jul 25 06:42:09 probably shouldn't do it during the middle of an upgrade though. Jul 25 06:42:20 that's what I need to do - get SD boot working Jul 25 06:42:25 this is taking quite a lot longer than i expected Jul 25 06:42:35 True, if your booty call goes wrong, just pull your quitbattery Jul 25 06:42:35 ozzloy: if it's plugged in, it's fine - pull it. :-) Jul 25 06:42:49 i can read from sd just fine when booted normally Jul 25 06:43:05 my booty calls went *so* wrong Jul 25 06:43:38 yeah, i like how you can swap out battery if usb is plugged in. that's nice Jul 25 06:43:40 the joke was funnier but I got 2 chats mixed up Jul 25 06:43:42 But you're using the stock boot image... that might be a problem. Jul 25 06:44:30 rivalarrival: nah, swapping battery while usb powered worked fine out-of-box Jul 25 06:44:49 but i wasn't able to boot with just usb power Jul 25 06:44:56 ozzloy: No, weren't you saying you had problems with SD boot? Jul 25 06:45:00 ozzloy: following this guide http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner seems to end in a kernel panic Jul 25 06:45:16 rivalarrival: yeah, but i was trying to boot the latest daily build Jul 25 06:45:23 well, from july 22 or so Jul 25 06:45:57 jakobsg: good to know. that's what i'm afraid of Jul 25 06:46:03 jakobsg: I had that hapen to me - turned out I was using the wrong rootfs file. Jul 25 06:46:22 jakobsg: what do you mean "seems to" have you experienced it yourself? Jul 25 06:46:49 yes, I have used hours now Jul 25 06:46:52 see that's the kind of stuff i'm hoping to avoid by getting help from you guys Jul 25 06:47:05 jakobsg: are you esl? Jul 25 06:47:19 tried both ext2 and ext3 and on two different MicroSD cards Jul 25 06:48:33 jakobsg: if you're getting vfs, i think that's a pretty clear indicator that the image your using doesn't have the right fs compiled. it can't be a loaded module, it has to be in the kernel i think Jul 25 06:48:52 has anyone received a response from sales@openmoko.com .... ever? Jul 25 06:49:05 it can't be a module, because it would have to read the module off the filesystem... catch 22 Jul 25 06:49:06 lol Jul 25 06:49:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card Jul 25 06:49:46 rivalarrival: which rootfs did you end up using? Jul 25 06:50:17 rivalarrival: yeah, that's the page i'm working from, but getting an io error after the literal boot screen Jul 25 06:50:21 The .jffs2 file for the internal, the tar.gz is for the sdcard Jul 25 06:50:38 ozzloy: Have you updated uboot? Jul 25 06:51:10 Some versions of u-boot (including the one shipped on the first batch of Freerunners) may not work properly for booting from SD card. Daily images on buildhost with a timestamp of "20080723" or newer should be OK. Jul 25 06:51:27 rivalarrival: no. oh really? Jul 25 06:51:53 rivalarrival: well updating uboot also scares me, and will have to wait until tomorrow Jul 25 06:51:59 Yeah, the latest version fixes some other problems too. Jul 25 06:52:00 oh this is such fun aggravation Jul 25 06:52:21 i knew i was going to be frustrated by this phone and spend hours working on it. Jul 25 06:52:24 rivalarrival: I created a tar.gz file from the .jffs2 file as described in the guide Jul 25 06:52:27 ozzloy: seriously, it's a piece of cake. And if it fails, you've got a read-only backup Jul 25 06:52:28 i've learned quite a bit Jul 25 06:52:30 morning Jul 25 06:53:10 rivalarrival: cool cool Jul 25 06:53:15 but this upgrade is still going Jul 25 06:53:42 actually i can't wait for this any more. i hope it's done when i wake up. Jul 25 06:53:48 thanks rivalarrival Jul 25 06:53:49 night! Jul 25 06:53:50 gnight Jul 25 06:54:09 rivalarrival: Could you post the exact url to the download to use for SD booting Jul 25 06:54:27 i mean the qtiopia download url Jul 25 06:54:45 jakobsg: I've never got it working, but hang on a sec Jul 25 06:56:40 jakobsg: Ok first, I'm using this wiki page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images#Qtopia_image_from_qtopia.net Jul 25 06:56:50 http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=68 Jul 25 06:56:57 hi dudes Jul 25 06:57:02 That second link will redirect to the tgz file. Jul 25 06:57:29 ok thanks Jul 25 06:58:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia Jul 25 07:00:03 it's the errors i don't understand that hang me up Jul 25 07:00:18 any of my testers around? Jul 25 07:00:36 Testers? Jul 25 07:01:10 Damnit, 3am. Gnight, all Jul 25 07:01:14 yeah, i need someone to run 2 commands on their phone and tell me the results, and if they think there is a problem with the commands Jul 25 07:01:42 which order do the batteries go in the stylus? Jul 25 07:02:05 + faces the tip of the pen/stylus, - faces the laser/led Jul 25 07:02:08 shoot lint Jul 25 07:02:11 my gps isn't working (gta01) Jul 25 07:02:21 i see nothing in /tmp/nmeaNP Jul 25 07:02:23 railer, you need wpa_supplicant running Jul 25 07:02:27 and gpssight doesnt work Jul 25 07:02:34 then "wpa_cli add_network" Jul 25 07:02:40 it'll respond with a number Jul 25 07:03:06 "wpa_cli set_network number ssid something" (replace the number with the number from the first command) Jul 25 07:03:47 this local or through usb? Jul 25 07:03:52 usb works Jul 25 07:05:01 ahh, i see the problem, nm Jul 25 07:05:40 there are only two batteries right? Jul 25 07:05:48 i think 3 Jul 25 07:06:01 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r8d24972ce512 10/framework/ (3 files in 2 dirs): odeviced: the audio module now uses the generic asyncworker Jul 25 07:07:29 ieatlint, found the third one; somehow i unscrewed it, and all batteries went rolling all over the floor Jul 25 07:07:49 good morning Jul 25 07:08:22 mbuf: 4 actually Jul 25 07:08:36 * mbuf searches for the fourth one Jul 25 07:08:51 it's easiest to first pile them up and put the end over them, then turn around Jul 25 07:09:14 ROFL may not be a good caption here Jul 25 07:09:30 (yes, i like to unscrew stuff) Jul 25 07:09:33 ieatlint not much happened Jul 25 07:09:52 yeah, it should say fail because whoever wrote wpa_cli fucked up Jul 25 07:10:09 set_network is a command only in interactive mode Jul 25 07:10:10 wpa_cli add_network > Selected interface 'eth0' 0 Jul 25 07:10:19 ya it said FAIL Jul 25 07:10:33 Selected interface 'eth0' FAIL Jul 25 07:10:47 yep Jul 25 07:11:12 * mbuf finds the fourth battery; and sees light at one end of the stylus Jul 25 07:12:04 ok, i'm annoyed Jul 25 07:12:20 and i need a break while i determine how i am going to fix this Jul 25 07:12:42 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r38619a0f18bc 10/framework/ (3 files in 2 dirs): odeviced: convert input plugin to use the generic asyncworker Jul 25 07:13:39 You know what some one has to make a keyboard and mouse that work with whichever computer you are looking at Jul 25 07:13:45 it's like the author wanted it not to work... i can't even pipe it into wpa_cli, which should put it for interactive mode Jul 25 07:15:27 ieatlint, was it you last night that recommended "C - How to program"? If so, I'm really liking it so far :D Jul 25 07:15:39 afraid not Jul 25 07:15:50 ah, ok, we were discussing C and a couple of books got recommended.. Jul 25 07:16:21 xchat backlog doesnt go back far enough, I should really change some config options and set up a nickserv script Jul 25 07:16:34 fragged: the wiki has logs of this chat Jul 25 07:16:54 and xchat supports authenticating with nickserv in the network config Jul 25 07:17:22 fragged: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Development_resources#IRC Jul 25 07:18:21 ah, cheers :) Jul 25 07:25:03 so, again: anybody got a clue about atomic operations on the armv4 of the FR? Jul 25 07:25:22 i guess i could look into pulse or something, right? Jul 25 07:25:51 atomic? are you writing a threading library? Jul 25 07:26:13 kinda, i'm needing some simple ops for a threaded app Jul 25 07:26:22 and i don't want to use libatomic_ops Jul 25 07:26:38 Any thoughts on providing a Mumble package for OpenMoko? Jul 25 07:26:45 Has this been discussed before? Jul 25 07:27:19 Fossi: I'd start experimenting with gcc -E Jul 25 07:27:58 there must be quite a lot of docs somewhere Jul 25 07:28:11 ok, i feel like kicking someone in the face, but i think i have copy of lint-wifi i can give out Jul 25 07:28:14 Fossi: err I meant gcc -S Jul 25 07:28:56 lol Jul 25 07:29:12 Fossi: looking at the assembly output for simple operations is probably the easiest thing to do Jul 25 07:29:21 the wonders of programming Jul 25 07:29:39 i'm sure it's not fully working, but i need a break, and i don't know if i'll get back to it tonight Jul 25 07:30:04 walrustown: hmm. i thought there might be some instruction set manual somewhere Jul 25 07:30:06 got a linky? i'll take a gander Jul 25 07:30:19 uploading now... Jul 25 07:30:26 ok Jul 25 07:30:29 ieatlint: ipkg? Jul 25 07:30:39 Hello. I am trying to make a gta02 qemu, but every time I run 'make flash-qemu-local', I get these error messages "s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20 Jul 25 07:30:39 " Jul 25 07:30:39 no Jul 25 07:30:51 * Fossi is too lazy then ;) Jul 25 07:30:53 Fossi: Oh, well, I'm sure there is Jul 25 07:30:55 just a single python script... ipkg will come when i have a copy i am really ready to release Jul 25 07:30:59 does anyone have any idea why this might happen? Jul 25 07:31:39 fire the link again, I didn't bookmark it Jul 25 07:32:13 http://ext.tehinterweb.com/freerunner/lint-wifi/lint-wifi.py Jul 25 07:32:27 sweet Jul 25 07:32:34 if it doesn't work, you have to kick someone in the face before i'll listen to bug reports Jul 25 07:33:07 oh, and this will start wpa_supplicant for you now Jul 25 07:33:14 so all you need to do is run the app, no prep Jul 25 07:33:27 (it will detect if it's already running) Jul 25 07:35:26 for the next version i'll actually fill in the config page with real options (!!) Jul 25 07:35:44 Still struggling with qtopia Jul 25 07:36:27 jakobsg, everyone in here is a technology-masochist Jul 25 07:36:30 I don't have a clue why I can't start using my neo as a phone :-) Jul 25 07:36:32 we're all struggling Jul 25 07:36:33 anyone have qemu working with gta02? Jul 25 07:39:03 As I have earlier written I am stuck with a kernel panic - though I have followed the guide to the letter Jul 25 07:39:54 I'm booting from SD and the failure accures when boot image wants to mount rootfs Jul 25 07:40:17 which by the way is ext2 Jul 25 07:42:05 It is really frustrating, because its the last small step that seems to be missing :-( Jul 25 07:43:03 im still not connecting, Jul 25 07:43:21 The panic is: "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2)" and I'm not even sure what it means ? Jul 25 07:45:15 is there a fix for the wrong calibration of the touchscreen when rotating the screen? Jul 25 07:45:20 this is *really* bothering Jul 25 07:45:39 ieatlint you out? Jul 25 07:45:48 jakobsg: i think that happens if your rootfs on the sd card isn't ext3 Jul 25 07:46:33 fixing a bug i just found Jul 25 07:47:12 ok, I got a FAIL once and a command timed out Jul 25 07:47:31 what command? Jul 25 07:47:56 wpa_cli otp 4 Jul 25 07:48:19 connecting to an ap without a password? Jul 25 07:48:50 with and without Jul 25 07:49:53 i like it havent tried a connect yet though Jul 25 07:50:20 wpa_cli otp 6 "No Password" Selected interface 'eth0' 'CTRL-RSP-OTP-6:No Password' command timed out Jul 25 07:50:50 ecraven: I have tried both ext2 and ext3 Jul 25 07:52:14 i see a few FAIL's Jul 25 07:52:26 me too on the save function Jul 25 07:52:40 i'll dig through the source it almost seems like a few trivial fixes Jul 25 07:52:45 yeah, i knew the save function would fail... Jul 25 07:52:57 ah you guessed it Jul 25 07:53:20 it's for the same reason i was having trouble with the set_network command to wpa_cli Jul 25 07:53:30 jakobsg: i have played around with the sd card for some time, and finally have it working. a fat partition for the kernel, an ext3 partition for the rest Jul 25 07:53:37 i may just write my own wpa_cli and save this hassle Jul 25 07:53:39 i changed the boot from SD command, according to the wiki Jul 25 07:54:05 and the connect/discconnect doesnt seem to realize i'm connected to one and that it doesnt require auth Jul 25 07:54:29 ecraven: What was the last part, you said ? Jul 25 07:54:40 changed the boot ?? Jul 25 07:54:48 "boot from SD" command ;) Jul 25 07:54:57 in the nand flash, you can change what it does Jul 25 07:55:00 i played around with that too Jul 25 07:55:09 post bugs on the wiki in the discussion page... i've not the energy to fix it now Jul 25 07:55:14 url - would be much appreciated :-D Jul 25 07:55:25 i'm going to go get some food in a min Jul 25 07:55:28 ok Jul 25 07:58:10 ecraven: what is it I need to do? Jul 25 07:58:20 ecraven: Jul 25 07:58:30 i didn't have to edit the nand boot Jul 25 07:58:33 jakobsg: look on the wiki, it has a good description Jul 25 07:58:44 i didn't say you need to, i just said i did ;) Jul 25 07:59:02 now, how do i get xrandr -o left work correctly? how to fix the touchscreen?? Jul 25 07:59:40 If it's this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD#Change_your_kernel_settings then I don't get it :-( Jul 25 07:59:48 ecraven, jakobsg: the wiki search is really fucked up Jul 25 08:00:11 if you search for it you get a lot of links and the only usefull ones are booting from sd in asian languages :) Jul 25 08:00:30 you have to manually delete the "zh_cn" Jul 25 08:00:46 is there any way i could fix this? Jul 25 08:05:08 ecraven: Could you send a link ? Jul 25 08:05:17 jakobsg: i'll look for it, not sure which page it was Jul 25 08:05:37 Hi, I am installing python on SD card of Neo1973, fallowing instructions in "http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Package_management#Installing_Packages_on_the_Card" Jul 25 08:06:19 when i "opkg install -d card python-core", got "An error ocurred, return value: 2." Jul 25 08:07:01 anybody help me Jul 25 08:08:57 may i need to upgrade the device first? Jul 25 08:10:41 opendeep: i'm a noob, so i might be wrong but i think you need to replace "card" with the name and location of your card Jul 25 08:10:56 ah, no i see, you have added a dest first Jul 25 08:11:17 then i don't know how to help you, sorry Jul 25 08:15:08 Zorkman:I first add "dest card /media/card/opkg" to /etc/opkg.conf file then created opkg folder in /media/card. Jul 25 08:21:15 jakobsg: if nothing else helps, look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD at the part where it says "Boot entry for ext3 partitions" under "Add uboot boot entry" Jul 25 08:21:21 but probably you don't need to change that Jul 25 08:22:04 who is to blame that the touchscreen doesn't work correctly after xrandr -o left?? Xglamo? Jul 25 08:23:05 openmoko: 03john_lee * r4555 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/dialer.py: Jul 25 08:23:05 openmoko: Register() is async. wait for the signal from network interface to Jul 25 08:23:05 openmoko: change the registration status. Jul 25 08:26:46 ecraven: thanks - now I have something to go on - I'll try it later today Jul 25 08:27:13 welcome, hope it works! Jul 25 08:30:58 Archibald Buttle? Jul 25 08:32:04 pizza.. yay Jul 25 08:32:17 ieatlint: teleport some my direction Jul 25 08:32:31 hmmm. libatomic_ops is messy and i don't get my head around this atm Jul 25 08:32:35 i'll try later Jul 25 08:32:45 i don't know where you are... Jul 25 08:32:47 first i nedd to compile some more hours anyway Jul 25 08:33:15 trying to implement some simple atomic ops Jul 25 08:33:29 set, compare and set, incr, decr Jul 25 08:47:19 i want to isntall minimo and i succeeded on the 2007.2, bout on the asu i get "could not obtain administrative lock" Jul 25 08:48:13 mmm, closed the connection and reconnected and now it works Jul 25 08:52:19 we can run GTK+ on ASU? Jul 25 08:56:44 does koolu change the freerunner in any other way than rebrandning it? Jul 25 08:57:50 ieatlint are you going to have to rebuild wpa_cli? Jul 25 08:58:10 Zorkman: the administrative lock stuff ussually means another opkg proccess is running Jul 25 08:59:02 mbuf, yes Jul 25 08:59:57 where can find details about the return policy and warranty from openmoko? Jul 25 09:00:58 * kd8ikt doesnt think there is one unless it arrived smashed in a million pieces Jul 25 09:01:28 why would you want to return it? Jul 25 09:01:30 smhar, de ordering side have somthing about DOA Jul 25 09:01:47 it's 5 or ten days or something of the like Jul 25 09:01:56 the store site says it is 14 day DOA (Single Pack) for single PACK, (what is DOA?) but what if a hardware bug was discovered later than that? Jul 25 09:02:06 dead on arrival Jul 25 09:02:07 DOA= Dead on arrival Jul 25 09:02:22 but if it boots its yours Jul 25 09:02:37 I see :-) Jul 25 09:03:21 hardware bugs.... of course this is developer revision 2 Jul 25 09:03:40 now we do what we can with what we got Jul 25 09:03:43 blippe, kd8ikt , what about hardware bugs and faults? I can live with a bugy software because I know that it will bw improved eventually, not the hardware Jul 25 09:03:50 damn, i think i messed something up Jul 25 09:04:05 i can't connect to my freerynner anymore Jul 25 09:04:13 what is this bug of which you speak Jul 25 09:04:19 kd8ikt, it is annouced as final product not developer 2!! Jul 25 09:04:27 it think it might have something to do with while running an opkg upgrade he asked to do sod to use a new /etc/config file Jul 25 09:04:31 it's a final product [for developers] Jul 25 09:05:09 heh /me thinks smhar really wanted an iphone Jul 25 09:05:16 maybe you should get one of those samsung instincts, smhar Jul 25 09:05:30 hehe Jul 25 09:05:34 railer, i probably will.. Jul 25 09:05:49 kd8ikt, I hate Iphone and wince/pocket pc things Jul 25 09:05:51 how goes your wireless app, ieatlint? Jul 25 09:06:03 it will let me clean up the code in the wifi app too Jul 25 09:06:11 smhar: while openmoko doesn't need to give a guarantee, in germany, your reseller will have to Jul 25 09:06:26 smhar: don't know where you are from and what the law is Jul 25 09:06:31 it goes... working better than before, but definitely not a finished product, except by microsoft standards Jul 25 09:06:35 there is always ebay Jul 25 09:06:50 ieatlint, there's always the option of a service pack then ;) Jul 25 09:07:00 trix, kd8ikt as I just said, I can live with buggy and beta and even alpha software.. does this sound like an iphone person?! Jul 25 09:07:11 yeah actually Jul 25 09:07:22 smhar: just tell us exactly what you consider as a hardware problem Jul 25 09:07:38 smhar, then what're you waiting for, put yourself on the shipping list :) Jul 25 09:07:42 Zorkman: well, for example my gps internal antenna doesn't work Jul 25 09:07:51 fossi: it does work Jul 25 09:07:57 it works fine here Jul 25 09:08:00 Zorkman: no, mine doesn't Jul 25 09:08:06 upgrade the kernel? Jul 25 09:08:10 have you updated to the latest kernel? Jul 25 09:08:13 it's not a software problem Jul 25 09:08:16 Zorkman, what if the wifi chipset is buggy, as the gps antena was? Jul 25 09:08:25 run agpsui? Jul 25 09:08:29 smhar: i can connect to wifi networks withouth problems Jul 25 09:08:35 (only tested unencrypted ones though) Jul 25 09:08:36 i don't get a fix, even without sd card in Jul 25 09:08:37 change the gpsd config Jul 25 09:08:43 i've received more "firmware updates" on my freerunner than i've received in total with all of my past cell phones combined. there's nothing quite like having an entire community building phone software. Jul 25 09:08:57 Fossi: flash the divece to the newest uboot/kernel and filesystem Jul 25 09:09:00 it reports just fine, only that it doesn't get any satelites at all Jul 25 09:09:10 Zorkman, but buggy units exist in each patch. only few units have the gps problem, the rest were ok Jul 25 09:09:21 Zorkman: don't you read what i say? it's not a software problem Jul 25 09:09:24 ugh in fact i dont think any phone i've owned had soft updates or user flashable filesystems Jul 25 09:09:39 it looks like one of the pins is not soldered on Jul 25 09:10:02 my samsung has an option to update firmware but there's only been one update available in the past few years Jul 25 09:10:07 so there always *is* a probability of stupp bein g broken Jul 25 09:10:15 *stuff Jul 25 09:10:34 fossi: there always is, with EVERY phone Jul 25 09:10:45 trix: OTOH, I presume the samsung has been working as a phone for all those years ;) Jul 25 09:10:48 yes, but normally, you get a 2 year warranty Jul 25 09:10:57 gimmie a shell on the bugger and i'll find out if it is Jul 25 09:11:07 i mean, i get it from my reseller, germany's laws be praised Jul 25 09:11:11 Fossi: you get a two year warranty in the EU Jul 25 09:11:11 polz, yep. cept for that time i dropped it in the pisser. Jul 25 09:11:21 :)) Jul 25 09:11:23 but that might not be the case in other places Jul 25 09:11:47 trix, don't talk on the phone and pee, especially if you're talking to me Jul 25 09:11:51 wow did you know gps is considered a munition Jul 25 09:11:52 Fossi: actually it is only 6montshs, after that you technically have to proof that the product broke during normall usage (although this is almost never nescesarry) Jul 25 09:11:55 hehe Jul 25 09:11:57 i'm just saying that smhar's question is pretty valid Jul 25 09:12:15 Zorkman: i know. i called them and they'll fix it, no problems at all :) Jul 25 09:12:18 or send me a new one Jul 25 09:12:19 it was in a hoodie pocket. and i wasn't pleased. Jul 25 09:12:21 yes, but smhar knew that if he bought it directly from openmoko he would get a 14day DOA or a 28day DOA with a tenpack Jul 25 09:12:40 Zorkman, don't be fanboy Jul 25 09:12:53 buyers remorse != shit is broken with the hardware Jul 25 09:12:54 ok eatlint, i'll shut up :) Jul 25 09:13:07 if it where me i wuold be whining too :) Jul 25 09:13:08 "audio: /dev/dsp: Device or resource busy" -- when playing with madplay on default image on FR Jul 25 09:13:26 mbuf: use alsa? Jul 25 09:13:36 or kill pulse/alsa/whatever Jul 25 09:14:00 kd8ikt, did you kick someone in the face like i asked, btw? Jul 25 09:14:25 no but i made a bug report and im laying in bed ready to pass out Jul 25 09:14:28 ieatlint: you should put that into the license ;D Jul 25 09:14:40 haha Jul 25 09:15:08 mbuf: maybe pulseaudio has something to do with it Jul 25 09:15:08 yeah my FR is here :D unfortunately i have no time to play with it till tuesday or so :( Jul 25 09:15:17 i hope i will survive that weekend Jul 25 09:16:16 ieatlint: i'll play with the script in the morning and run some wifi hackery Jul 25 09:17:02 i almost consider the bug report as a reminder to myself where to start looking Jul 25 09:17:30 * kd8ikt needs a notepad on his moko Jul 25 09:17:44 word Jul 25 09:17:53 somebody should package leafpad or such Jul 25 09:18:18 i played with tspaint or sumthinpaint really neat app Jul 25 09:18:20 Finally - got qtopia running ! Jul 25 09:18:23 i mean, nano is okey for most stuff, but yeah Jul 25 09:18:36 jakobsg: what was the problem? Jul 25 09:18:37 as for making games you play through your browser; Which has better performance, flash or java? Jul 25 09:18:44 its in the repo Jul 25 09:18:51 how do we hide the mouse pointer under X? Jul 25 09:19:22 /etc/matchbox/session or something (2007.2) Jul 25 09:19:52 I think the uimage.bin from trolltech: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=68 is stripped from ext2 support Jul 25 09:20:29 kd8ikt: thanks, so matchbox hides it Jul 25 09:20:37 When I added the fat+ext3 menu option in u-boot it mountet rootfs without a problem Jul 25 09:21:11 i think i hate qtopia, only real issue i have is the app scroll likes to keep on its momentum even when i'm like "oh wait i overshot it go back" Jul 25 09:21:24 (2997.2) app scroll Jul 25 09:21:46 kd8ikt, yeah after "killall pulseaudio", madplay runs Jul 25 09:21:59 well qtopia has excellent input methods Jul 25 09:22:08 it gleefully ignores my responses to stop scrolling i kinda wish it didnt have any momentum Jul 25 09:22:22 fuck qtopia Jul 25 09:22:40 :P Jul 25 09:23:12 [#openmoko] Jul 25 09:25:56 I have been a currious about why it has been decided to create yet another UI for the openmoko when there are a few opensource ui's already to build on? Jul 25 09:27:03 maemo I think it's called the interface for Nokia 770 - is the best I have seen until now - and as far as I know it is 100% GPL Jul 25 09:27:10 jakobsg, because none of the others are scalable, among other things, as far as I know Jul 25 09:27:48 i dont think its about a ui but some crazy lowlevel do it all dbus api Jul 25 09:27:49 Scaleable in which sence ? graphically, performance, ... Jul 25 09:28:08 Graphically. But I'm an outsider on the openmoko community, I could be wrong Jul 25 09:28:12 fso stuff Jul 25 09:29:10 It appears that OpenMoko is aiming to be used on many devices rather than just the Neo and FR; similar to the way Sony have an OS, as does Nokia Jul 25 09:29:46 future Jul 25 09:30:30 Well I'm mainly talking UI, because that's what "People" see Jul 25 09:30:52 and of course funktionality Jul 25 09:32:12 http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/07/23/openmoko_ui_train_wreck Jul 25 09:32:13 the UI is something people will decide on if they will buy the phone or not Jul 25 09:32:20 but it would seem to me that maemo already has at least 50% of the openmoko hardware functionality wrapped in nice user interfaces - wifi, bluetooth, usb - of course missing GSM and GPS Jul 25 09:32:45 cheesy: my point exactly Jul 25 09:32:50 maemo is also non-free in significant parts, don't know about those you mention Jul 25 09:33:34 jakobsg: you are totally right! and ppl critisize the openmoko on the bad ui Jul 25 09:33:54 http://test.maemo.org/screenshots.html Jul 25 09:33:55 maemo suck :P Jul 25 09:33:59 no Jul 25 09:34:03 it's not usable with your finger Jul 25 09:34:38 so what? Jul 25 09:34:43 i'm glad with a root shell Jul 25 09:34:44 but you are right about the usabillity with the finger Jul 25 09:34:51 fuck 'the people' Jul 25 09:35:15 hell, people citisize everything Jul 25 09:35:22 +r Jul 25 09:35:31 FossiShopping: they do Jul 25 09:35:34 For a phone I really don't want a root shell Jul 25 09:35:47 but the phone should be for people right? Jul 25 09:35:48 i do :D Jul 25 09:35:52 yes Jul 25 09:35:55 i'm people Jul 25 09:35:56 Critics are the best feedback project get! Jul 25 09:36:11 projects* Jul 25 09:36:14 me is people too Jul 25 09:36:39 actually i'd argue i'm more of the (original) target group than most other 'people' are Jul 25 09:36:47 because i care about a free phone Jul 25 09:36:49 well, my only question was - why not build on some of the existing projects Jul 25 09:36:55 and i think the phone shoould be usable with you finger...as there isn't a place for a stylus in the case Jul 25 09:37:01 and i need a root shell to compile stuff Jul 25 09:37:17 cheesy: well, i will have to agree on that Jul 25 09:37:20 you have gcc installed on your pphone? Jul 25 09:37:34 still the root shell is the most important thing Jul 25 09:37:37 sorry to jump in, but the nokia maemo (n800) internet tablet has a nice concept: Jul 25 09:37:43 (and gpl drivers) Jul 25 09:38:01 it 'senses' (from toucharea) if you are using a stylus or a finger Jul 25 09:38:06 kd8ikt: yes, i was sick of cross compiling Jul 25 09:38:12 FossiShopping: you have your root shell in maemo too Jul 25 09:38:18 and i can actually code on the way now Jul 25 09:38:26 Please keep the software the more free possible Jul 25 09:38:28 if you're using a stylus, it uses an onscreen keyboard with small keys Jul 25 09:38:51 when using a finger, it shows less keys but larger Jul 25 09:39:04 filonk: well, go ahead and port it, if you like it that much ;) Jul 25 09:39:05 filonk: i think the hardware in the FR can't do that Jul 25 09:39:25 i tried installing all the compiler stuff earlier but it blew up in my face Jul 25 09:39:25 ecraven, why not ? Jul 25 09:39:55 every ./configure would say "i cant compile a simple program with this env" Jul 25 09:39:57 is it not possible to find out if just a small spot (stylus) has been touched or a larger area (finger) ? Jul 25 09:39:59 i'd guess the coordinates would jump more when using the finger Jul 25 09:40:06 gcc cannot make an executable Jul 25 09:40:11 or some crap Jul 25 09:40:20 kd8ikt: i had to link cc to cc1 Jul 25 09:40:28 ? Jul 25 09:40:30 you should check config.log Jul 25 09:40:33 filonk: someone told me the hardware can't do that Jul 25 09:40:42 i did and it didnt really help Jul 25 09:40:43 filonk: i think it is possible Jul 25 09:40:51 though you might be able to "fake" it, like FossiShopping said Jul 25 09:40:57 Ecraven! Jul 25 09:40:58 kd8ikt: well, it tells you why it fails ;D Jul 25 09:41:00 heyya dave ;) Jul 25 09:41:11 =_= Jul 25 09:41:25 filonk: when you press with your finger you mke contact over a certain area, depending on the pressure (whuch you can impossibly keep constant) the point will variate a in that area Jul 25 09:41:29 i dunno maybe i'll try again sometime Jul 25 09:41:45 cause the angstrom toolchain sucks balls Jul 25 09:41:49 filonk: maybe it variates fast enough to be detected as a finger and not justa stylus making crazy fast little movements Jul 25 09:41:52 :D Jul 25 09:42:04 i'm pretty sure there is a way to notice a difference between stylus and finger (pressure, area-size, ....) Jul 25 09:42:09 ok, fossishopping said it long before me :) Jul 25 09:42:51 Will the GSM 900 stock be going up today (or tomorrow, not sure of the time diff) along with the GSM 850 stock? Or do we have to wait longer for it still? >_> Jul 25 09:43:05 as soon as my FR arrives, I'll do some testing. Just dump TS data , use finger and stylus and check the output Jul 25 09:43:46 The 900 shoudl be going up today Jul 25 09:44:05 There should always be multiple input methods, ie for fat fingers or using stylus pen Jul 25 09:44:19 Awesome. Jul 25 09:44:21 * FacelessJ taps f5 Jul 25 09:49:29 ok, writing my own wpa_cli thing should prove relatively easy and should really knock off a bit of python code Jul 25 09:51:58 i'm using a fully up-to-date ASU, but exposure wont load is this normal? i've never been able to load it Jul 25 09:52:38 Does emacs run smoothly in Freerunner? Jul 25 09:53:03 davi no you have to use ed or vi :-) Jul 25 09:53:17 shit :P Jul 25 09:53:47 time will tell :) Jul 25 09:54:10 davi i think it does atleast thrugh usb Jul 25 09:55:51 hello, I've flashed my freerunner with latest andy's kernel from git. Now the openmoko panel battery applet doesn't see my battery anymore Jul 25 09:56:31 HauDyr, USB is needed due to storage limitation? Jul 25 09:56:58 i'm using a fully up-to-date ASU, but exposure wont load is this normal? i've never been able to load it Jul 25 09:57:06 maybe something under sysfs has changed? may I need to upgrade hal? Jul 25 09:57:21 no to transfer data between your pc and the FreeRunner Jul 25 09:58:14 davi, for extra storage you have micro SD or SDHC Jul 25 09:59:10 HauDyr, so, why is needed USB to execute emacs? Jul 25 10:00:05 because you then do it from a terminal on your pc and can use a normal keyboard Jul 25 10:00:28 if you dont have a bluetooth keyboard Jul 25 10:00:56 anybody who can help me? Jul 25 10:00:58 I see, thrugh ssh via tramp. Thanks Jul 25 10:01:26 HauDyr, USB keyboard is said to work too Jul 25 10:01:31 ? Jul 25 10:01:49 davi i guess so Jul 25 10:01:56 cool Jul 25 10:02:30 you just have to build a special cabel to connect it Jul 25 10:03:29 there is something on the wiki (USB host mode) or something like that Jul 25 10:05:51 thanks Jul 25 10:06:36 How much has payed you for your Freerunner? Jul 25 10:06:45 have* Jul 25 10:07:37 davi: 335 euro Jul 25 10:07:51 i kan has payes 360€ :-) Jul 25 10:08:19 arabs has euroz? Jul 25 10:08:36 too much for me! Jul 25 10:09:17 dave no pirates you insensitive clod! Jul 25 10:09:31 where do you live davi? maybe you can get it cheaper by ordering from openmoko.com shop Jul 25 10:09:42 Spain Jul 25 10:10:48 I am waiting for the one with the camera, and then I will reevalute the device vs cost issue. Jul 25 10:12:57 I look for a device with all in: gps, internet tablet, wifi, camera, video play/record, sound play/record, etc., etc. All in one device. Jul 25 10:13:13 damn, I've found the error Jul 25 10:13:15 cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/capacity Jul 25 10:13:15 cat: read error: Timer expired Jul 25 10:14:10 is there a way to store the maps in diversity? Jul 25 10:14:17 everytime i reboot they are gone Jul 25 10:18:10 is there a way to store the maps in diversity? i looked everywhere and thre isn't even a page for it on the wiki Jul 25 10:22:15 i wish i knew how to cross-compile for my FR ;( Jul 25 10:22:24 Does diversity even work at all yet? Jul 25 10:22:27 ecraven, aww Jul 25 10:22:36 yeah I need to cross-compile drivers for it Jul 25 10:22:51 but I couldn't seem to find the kernel-headers for it yesterday :( Jul 25 10:23:04 i'd like matchbox-keyboard from svn Jul 25 10:23:20 Dave, the kernel headers... kernel.org Jul 25 10:24:27 can i just do GCC=moko-toolchain-gcc and then "make" should produce correct code? Jul 25 10:26:25 ecraven: for simple stuff yes, that'll work Jul 25 10:30:52 :O Jul 25 10:31:10 yeah but not if everything has to be linked Jul 25 10:31:15 you need a real build environment Jul 25 10:31:32 that's why sometimes if time is a sacrificable thing, I'll just compile shit on the phone itself :) Jul 25 10:31:43 Dave: i only need matchbox-keyboard recompiled Jul 25 10:31:56 turns out it has a million dependencies Jul 25 10:32:01 so better to use the pc :P Jul 25 10:32:21 how do i set up a complete build environment? Jul 25 10:33:10 Can't you just use bitbake or something? :| Jul 25 10:33:18 never used it Jul 25 10:33:28 That's what goodwill did when he built me matchbox-keyboard Jul 25 10:33:34 I think, anyway :D Jul 25 10:35:01 i like my debian setup, if i can get matchbox-keyboard to hide/popup on the AUX key, things look good ;) Jul 25 10:35:41 :D Jul 25 10:36:05 well, you've setup the toolchain then, I'm gathering, right? Jul 25 10:36:43 i downloaded it, and unpacked it, yes. that was the easy part Jul 25 10:37:31 heh Jul 25 10:37:49 can you give me your binary for matchbox-keyboard? Jul 25 10:37:59 sure, if you'd like Jul 25 10:38:04 Would you like all of them? Jul 25 10:38:13 do you have ipkgs? or just binaries? Jul 25 10:38:19 oh Jul 25 10:38:22 both Jul 25 10:38:29 I have the ipk's if you'd like them Jul 25 10:38:31 the ipkgs please ;) Jul 25 10:38:35 sure :D Jul 25 10:44:23 gah, one sec :P Jul 25 10:46:11 hoenoes, it's the leinir! Jul 25 10:47:02 <_gr_> hi, I presume it's a recurent ask, but is there a package repository for QTopia (sourcelist)? Jul 25 10:49:56 Dave: Indeed :) Jul 25 10:50:20 :O Jul 25 10:53:31 Hi, wondering if anyone from taiwan is on the channel right now. Jul 25 10:54:24 ecraven, I threw those packages up :] Jul 25 10:55:35 so guys, is the hardware platform stable right now? i'm a software developer and i'm about to order a FR Jul 25 10:55:54 Dave: thanks! works perfectly Jul 25 10:55:58 but i'm willing to wait if there will be major improvements in the hardware in the near future Jul 25 10:56:00 now i need to set up the aux button, then i'm good to go ;) Jul 25 10:56:14 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r12aa5a2cf91f 10/framework/ (7 files in 2 dirs): odeviced: use child loggers Jul 25 10:56:14 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd36cd646a428 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Jul 25 10:56:14 freesmartphone.org: odeviced: SetState now works for all states, no special case handling necessary. Note though that applications may depend on state transitions, so Jul 25 10:56:14 freesmartphone.org: be careful with setting non-neighbour states. Jul 25 10:57:05 :D! Jul 25 10:57:17 ecraven, keep me informed, I'm excited ;) Jul 25 10:57:27 Dave: how do i get it bigger? it's tiny! Jul 25 10:57:32 Yeah :\ Jul 25 10:57:36 sucky Jul 25 10:57:57 I was thinking, if swap orientation worked correctly, maybe when you rotated it, it would fill the screen Jul 25 10:58:04 so like a fuller sized keyboard Jul 25 10:58:06 but no :[ Jul 25 10:58:13 yeah it's tiny though Jul 25 10:58:21 must be a way to make it bigger Jul 25 10:58:23 and doesn't work properly when connected to USB Jul 25 10:58:32 :P Jul 25 10:58:39 Did you know about that bug? Jul 25 11:01:08 Dave: hehe, try xrandr -o left, then start mb-keyboard, then go back to -o normal, now the keyboard is bigger Jul 25 11:02:39 my device image is om-gta01, what for all-feed.conf and om-gta01-feed.conf ?I updated om-gta-feed.conf with the given server addresses from moko address but "opkg upgrade " not upgrading . Jul 25 11:03:43 hahaha Jul 25 11:04:57 ecraven: naughty naughty :p Jul 25 11:05:19 how do i set general font size in matchbox? Jul 25 11:06:39 Are there any logs generated from gsm actions? I see nothing obvious under /var/log/. Also, has anyone been able to have a SIM card be detected but when they try to make calls, the dialer starts the outgoing but almost immediatly disconnects? Is that a SIM/carrier/software issue? Jul 25 11:09:50 how do i set the gtk theme from the command line? Jul 25 11:10:49 whoa, there's a command line? Jul 25 11:11:11 grep ieatlint Jul 25 11:11:19 heheheh....sorry. Jul 25 11:11:47 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rb991f0087da1 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/ (audio.py idlenotifier.py input.py): odeviced: cleanup some plugins and bump version number Jul 25 11:13:38 UK people: has anyone bought a FR from Oxford Archaeology? it sounds good (i'm considering buying from Pulster otherwise), but i don't want to send my money into the abyss Jul 25 11:18:19 is there anyone in taiwan that can tell me how to get a freerunner? no distributor here. Jul 25 11:19:33 :D Jul 25 11:20:18 which is ironic considering they're made relatively close to taiwan Jul 25 11:21:18 yeah. kinda ironic Jul 25 11:21:51 ok, so I tracked down the gsmd logger, it seems that even though I can connect to the cell tower, and the SIM is detected, I get disconnected less them a second into a call. There is a "buf=`NO CARRIER'(10)" debug message in the log. Would that mean that my carrier is unreachable even though I'm connected to the local cell? Jul 25 11:21:56 ieatlint :P Jul 25 11:22:05 just walk into the child labor camp and pick one up! Jul 25 11:22:12 claim you're an escaped worker? :x Jul 25 11:22:29 how can i execute code when AUX is pressed? Jul 25 11:22:44 hahahah...yeah...but I would have to swim the other side of the channel. hahah. Jul 25 11:22:55 ecraven: modify the neod program. Jul 25 11:23:14 adsllc: i get correct events from /dev/input/event1 Jul 25 11:23:23 slurpster, yeah, don't do it, it's not worth it! Jul 25 11:23:38 just befriend someone who travels to the US or europe Jul 25 11:23:50 pick someone up at the airport Jul 25 11:23:55 ecraven: 'lsof | grep event1' says that neod is already reading it. Jul 25 11:24:17 ecraven: both of you reading the file at once may not be reliable. Jul 25 11:24:23 ecraven, you don't want to know :( Jul 25 11:24:37 what is event1? Jul 25 11:24:46 is that aux? Jul 25 11:24:52 no Jul 25 11:25:05 adsllc: i've installed debian, no neod for me Jul 25 11:25:27 debian ftw Jul 25 11:25:29 ecraven: Ah - parse event1 then. No idea what the format is though. Jul 25 11:25:36 actually, event4 is the right one Jul 25 11:25:45 i was sure there's a program already that does that Jul 25 11:26:06 ecraven, bastard! :P Jul 25 11:26:06 ecraven: you're using debian on the microSD, right? Jul 25 11:26:07 h, and it's /dev/input/event0 Jul 25 11:26:09 ecraven: There is - neod. :) Jul 25 11:26:12 swc|666: yes Jul 25 11:26:16 :D Jul 25 11:26:23 ecraven: what is your pointercal? Jul 25 11:26:25 ecraven, ts ts ts? Jul 25 11:26:25 ecraven: I've gotta run - good luck! Jul 25 11:26:32 adsllc: neod is ... not useful, no configuration via files, it opens *all* /dev/input/* for fun, ... Jul 25 11:26:49 swc|666: i copied Xglamo, libts and pointercal from 2007.2 Jul 25 11:26:52 otherwise nothing works Jul 25 11:27:13 aux is event0, power is event4 ... but what is event1? Jul 25 11:27:28 the touchscreen ;) Jul 25 11:27:30 nm... touchscreen Jul 25 11:27:35 ecraven: i couldnt get ts_calibrate working (yet) but i'm sooo close with the pointercal (guessing the figures : / ) Jul 25 11:28:00 swc|666: using debian's x server? Jul 25 11:28:04 i couldn't get that to work at all Jul 25 11:28:05 ecraven: which WM are u using... icewm? Jul 25 11:28:09 no, matchbox Jul 25 11:28:12 ecraven: yep Jul 25 11:28:15 i think it's the best for the tiny screen Jul 25 11:28:38 true Jul 25 11:28:56 i'd like matchbox-keyboard to hide/show with AUX ;) Jul 25 11:29:03 me 2! Jul 25 11:29:15 i'm actually using xkvbd Jul 25 11:29:27 xvkbd* Jul 25 11:29:45 how about an app that locks the phone when you shake it :P Jul 25 11:29:49 good point, i should look into that too Jul 25 11:31:02 i swear, people need to make a standardised protocol over bluetooth that tells phones to change profiles Jul 25 11:31:17 eg, walk into a meeting, phone switches to a meeting mode Jul 25 11:31:23 walk into a theatre, switches to silent Jul 25 11:31:43 or the naughty co-worker makes your phone use the outdoor then rigns you? Jul 25 11:32:07 ieatlint: is that a training program or something for evil nannies? Jul 25 11:32:07 a pretty simple certificate system could prevent that Jul 25 11:32:22 just use openssl certs, even Jul 25 11:33:48 how is the gtk theme set? which file says which theme to use? Jul 25 11:34:01 in which image? Jul 25 11:34:25 2007.2 Jul 25 11:34:32 i'd like to use the same theme on debian Jul 25 11:36:00 until we get a sexier theme working, that is ;) Jul 25 11:36:02 hah, it's preconfigured to support a usb mouse Jul 25 11:36:31 Dave: indeed ;) Jul 25 11:36:51 ahh... it's a standard config... has specific settings for difference devices, including ipaqs and nokia n800 Jul 25 11:37:42 grrr... which script controls the auto up for eth0 @ boot on 2007.2 ??? ... my /etc/network/interfaces dows nothing to prevent it from starting at boot :/ Jul 25 11:37:54 d/dows/does Jul 25 11:40:32 matchbox-window-manager -use_titlebar yes -use_desktop_mode decorated -theme Moko -use_cursor $SHOWCURSOR $@ & Jul 25 11:41:12 ieatlint: yes, but that's only the matchbox theme, where's the gtk theme for all the applications? Jul 25 11:41:27 that doesn't define the theme for the gtk applications? Jul 25 11:41:49 matchbox-remote -t themename Jul 25 11:42:03 i think not, but maybe it does Jul 25 11:42:14 it should... the window manager sets it Jul 25 11:42:24 /usr/share/themes Jul 25 11:43:00 /usr/share/themes/Moko/matchbox/theme.desktop sets the colours Jul 25 11:43:20 theme.xml in the same dir might set some too Jul 25 11:43:23 ieatlint: does it use ../Moko/gtk-2.0/ ? Jul 25 11:43:58 looks like it could Jul 25 11:44:16 i'd copy the Moko folder to another folder, fuck with it, and use the matchbox-remote app to try things out Jul 25 11:44:50 swc|666, should be swc|-rw-rw-rw- Jul 25 11:44:53 "mathbox-remote -panel-toggle" is used to toggle panels, btw (which i believe will show/hide the keyboard) Jul 25 11:45:04 lol Jul 25 11:47:05 yeah, that didn't work, so nevermind :P Jul 25 11:47:11 (the panel-toggle) Jul 25 11:49:04 Did anybody try a 16G microSD card ? Jul 25 11:49:21 lol, the close button for window apps is ascii art? Jul 25 11:49:38 Ainulindale, to our knowledge, 8gb is highest obtainable now Jul 25 11:50:29 And SDHC is preferrable ? Jul 25 11:50:48 HC just means it can be over 2 gigs Jul 25 11:51:16 so yes, it's preferrable, if you want space... Jul 25 11:51:17 Oh, ok :-) Jul 25 11:52:40 does anyone test navit on neo freerunner ? Jul 25 11:52:55 does it run ? Jul 25 11:55:02 damn mmicks Jul 25 11:55:43 hehe, a load of 3 ;D Jul 25 12:03:44 sooo,if i am in europe and plan on buying a freerunner as quick as possible, is the best time tomorrow morning? Timezones et al? Jul 25 12:05:17 the store is here in california, gmt-7, so it's 5am here Jul 25 12:05:19 blippe: buy from a reseller ;) Jul 25 12:05:49 yeah, you probably are better off from a reseller, the extra cost and tranist time, plus customs.. Jul 25 12:06:05 edistar_: thought about buying it from koolu. Jul 25 12:06:24 blippe: hm, atm koolu is vapourware ;) Jul 25 12:06:29 I think Jul 25 12:06:39 blippe: which country are you in? Jul 25 12:06:40 so not koolu then :D Jul 25 12:06:58 he's in sweden :P Jul 25 12:07:03 sweden, but i will be able to pick it up in the states in a few weeks Jul 25 12:07:23 no, in a few days Jul 25 12:07:47 when do the 900s even get in stock with the openmoko store? Jul 25 12:08:05 it says today at the site Jul 25 12:08:20 check back in 3 hours at 8am... then 9am Jul 25 12:08:30 will do, thnx Jul 25 12:08:46 and if still not... maybe a couple times in the day, heh Jul 25 12:09:17 where you going in the US? Jul 25 12:10:31 someday i want to run through a restaurant kitchen while being chased by men Jul 25 12:15:43 how can i write to /sys/bus/.../*gps*/pwron as a user? Jul 25 12:17:12 udev Jul 25 12:17:20 /etc/udev/rules.d Jul 25 12:17:37 good luck figuring it out though :P Jul 25 12:22:52 Anybody have see this error "An error ocurred, return value: 2." when opkg install -d card python-core Jul 25 12:23:04 ieatlint: sudo sh -c "echo 1 > ..." ;) Jul 25 12:23:13 though it might not be the best idea to allow sudo sh without password Jul 25 12:23:24 why sh? Jul 25 12:23:28 sudo echo Jul 25 12:23:39 I see ecravens. Jul 25 12:23:45 if you want better security, make a script that does it Jul 25 12:23:57 lintux Jul 25 12:23:59 give it suid, and no write permissions for the user Jul 25 12:24:10 Don't give ieatlinux permissions :P Jul 25 12:24:15 sudo echo doesn't give root permissions for me Jul 25 12:24:20 haha Jul 25 12:24:27 lowell sudo Jul 25 12:24:53 it should... you surely don't need a shell environment to run it Jul 25 12:25:23 on my debian and my gentoo not :/ Jul 25 12:25:53 opendeep: check that DNS resolves Jul 25 12:26:35 well, i'm improper and never use sudo.. i run my apps as user, but all my shells at root Jul 25 12:26:56 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rd46d85698978 10/packages/e17/e-wm_cvs.bb: [e-wm] Package the efm files somewhere else. we don't want to see firefox... and such Jul 25 12:27:08 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rd9eb2317a066 10/packages/e17/e-wm_cvs.bb: [e-wm] Package the efm files somewhere else. we don't want to see firefox... and such Jul 25 12:27:48 Ainulindale! Jul 25 12:28:01 fix your app :p Jul 25 12:28:30 dns is overrated, just learn ip address... Jul 25 12:28:37 huhu Jul 25 12:29:12 just remember 4.2.2.1 and 4.2.2.2 Jul 25 12:29:15 ieatlint: you obviously have not deployed ipv6 yet :) Jul 25 12:29:22 Dave: which one ? Jul 25 12:29:32 if you ever need a dns server, those are easy to remember (they're on the US backbone, part of genuity) Jul 25 12:29:48 blippe: I reveived mine from koolu on Wednesday Jul 25 12:29:50 LetoTo, indeed, and i really don't understand why they're deploying it as they are Jul 25 12:30:11 ieatlint: cause the internet is more then port over port 80 Jul 25 12:30:17 s/port/porn/ Jul 25 12:30:19 :) Jul 25 12:30:19 LetoTo meant: ieatlint: cause the internet is more then porn over port 80 Jul 25 12:30:23 haha Jul 25 12:30:32 LetoTo, not my point Jul 25 12:30:42 i've very competent with tcp/ip Jul 25 12:30:48 my point is that why do it as they are? Jul 25 12:30:58 ok, so ipv4 doesn't have enough space Jul 25 12:31:12 and ipv6 addresses are too hard to remember generally Jul 25 12:31:37 listen. i spend 80% of my time out of my house behind fucking NAT :P Jul 25 12:31:37 so why not categorise by apnic/arin/etc Jul 25 12:31:40 That's where ubiqutous DNS comes into the picture, really :) Jul 25 12:31:40 it's a problem :P Jul 25 12:31:58 what is "ubiqutous DNS" ? Jul 25 12:32:04 and turn 1.2.3.4 into 1::1:2:3:4 for arin, 2::1:2:3:$ for apnic, etc Jul 25 12:32:13 DNS assigned to every single IP given out Jul 25 12:32:16 i can remember one consistent extra number Jul 25 12:32:40 ieatlint: when cisco routers get a petabyte of RAM to hold the routing tables you're proposing with that.... Jul 25 12:33:09 * LetoTo believes everyone who claims to have solutions for 'the internet' should be forced to attend an IETF :P Jul 25 12:33:22 never claimed a solution Jul 25 12:33:37 i said i didn't understand, which doesn't proclaim absolute knowledge :P Jul 25 12:33:49 and yeah, i've dealt very little with routing Jul 25 12:34:45 well, your "not a solution" won't work :) Jul 25 12:35:04 don't be mean :P Jul 25 12:35:10 call it an idea that won't work Jul 25 12:35:11 :P Jul 25 12:37:29 Dave ? Jul 25 12:59:06 i have cookies! Jul 25 13:00:04 "C is for cookie, it's good enough for me; oh cookie cookie cookie starts with C." Jul 25 13:00:04 Yay cookies! :) Jul 25 13:00:24 sometimes food my ass... i grew up on the original cookie monster Jul 25 13:00:40 Ainulindale:I tried by changing DNS ip in /etc/resolve.conf but no effect. Jul 25 13:01:05 opendeep: check if you can ping a computer on your network (not the host) Jul 25 13:02:37 opendeep, on the freerunner, type "nslookup google.com 4.2.2.1" ... if you have an internet connection, that will work, no matter what resolv.conf says Jul 25 13:04:29 you can also ping 4.2.2.1... Jul 25 13:04:37 ieatlint, cool ipaddress 4.2.2.1 and good to know anoter DNS server Jul 25 13:04:50 yeah, 4.2.2.2 Jul 25 13:04:52 as well Jul 25 13:05:08 and so forth... : Jul 25 13:05:10 :P Jul 25 13:05:14 .3, .4, .5 Jul 25 13:05:26 4.2.2.255 :-) Jul 25 13:05:40 254 works Jul 25 13:05:55 lol, so did 255 ... just goes to show, 255 is a valid ip Jul 25 13:06:13 aah 255 is broadcast Jul 25 13:06:40 wait, the freerunner is just caching Jul 25 13:06:42 ping to above ip's did n't work Jul 25 13:07:00 opendeep: so your routing isn't that good =) Jul 25 13:07:04 4.2.2.1 - 4.2.2.6 Jul 25 13:07:11 Did you follow the instructions on the wiki ? Jul 25 13:07:19 ~USB networking Jul 25 13:07:20 extra, extra, read all about it, usbnet is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking or and usbnet in 2.4.18 (desktop) is broken, you want to use > 2.4.19-pre2 or see windows usbnet for windows support or a patched version is at http://handhelds.org/~paxanima/usbnet/, or at http://zorian.kicks-ass.org/files/usbnet-2.4.21-rc7.tar.gz, or http://handhelds.org/~mallum/usbnet-2.4.20.patch, or dhcp over usbnet, .. Jul 25 13:07:28 yes Jul 25 13:07:32 Hmpf, never the good url. Jul 25 13:07:38 opendeep: it looks as if you didn't Jul 25 13:07:45 :o Jul 25 13:07:52 If you can't ping you probably didn't set up your host right Jul 25 13:07:58 Dave: you didn't answer Jul 25 13:08:08 opendeep: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Jul 25 13:08:18 what, about your app being broken? :D Jul 25 13:08:23 someone needs to tell busybox that nslookup in it acts like the host command, not nslookup Jul 25 13:08:24 Which app ? Jul 25 13:08:34 ping to 192.168.0.200 is working. Jul 25 13:08:40 That's normal Jul 25 13:09:10 Dave: which app are you talking about ? Jul 25 13:09:33 "extra, extra, read all about it" -- ooooh tommy <3 Jul 25 13:10:00 you can read all you want about me ;) Jul 25 13:10:19 ieatlint: hrrr, only if you keep your pants on Jul 25 13:10:37 maybe i'm a really hot chick... Jul 25 13:10:51 especially in that case Jul 25 13:10:53 hehe, ok, fine... no woman owns a FR Jul 25 13:11:02 ieatlint: untrue, son Jul 25 13:11:09 ieatlint: or maybe you're a tiny angry man with a hump Jul 25 13:11:18 (and using windows xp) Jul 25 13:11:20 i'm actually rather tall Jul 25 13:11:27 it's the hump that's tiny Jul 25 13:11:28 Igor is that you! Jul 25 13:11:35 Ach' master ! Jul 25 13:11:41 windows xp ... blah Jul 25 13:11:45 i'm a linux guy Jul 25 13:11:57 have been solely linux since january 2003 Jul 25 13:12:03 with a hump and a limp Jul 25 13:12:11 run a linux server at my home since 2000 Jul 25 13:12:52 my first linux was ReadHat 5.1 Jul 25 13:13:01 ah, you beat me... 6.4 Jul 25 13:13:32 bought a cd of it... still have it somewhere Jul 25 13:13:38 and i have used OS/2 2.1 and WARP, those were the days Jul 25 13:13:56 hah, wait, there was no 6.4 ... hmmm, Jul 25 13:14:17 must've been 6.2, which was march 00 Jul 25 13:14:55 4.2 was my first RedHat :) Jul 25 13:14:56 my first computer was a macintosh plus Jul 25 13:15:22 leinir, i also tried Monkey linux but without success Jul 25 13:15:28 hmm, redhat, never tried it, though used fedora for a while Jul 25 13:15:44 This was before redhat started smoking crack ;) Jul 25 13:15:47 i learnt on redhat... sucked Jul 25 13:16:00 yeah, redhat didn't use to be bad Jul 25 13:16:23 i sat for the rhce on redhat 7.3 Jul 25 13:16:45 walked away with rcp and rhce certificates, and i'm not sure i've touched redhat since Jul 25 13:19:38 i switched to gentoo.. never looked back Jul 25 13:20:53 i have tried Redhat,Mandrake, SUsE, Slackware, Debian, Ubuntu and ended up using Debian on servers and Ubuntu on workstations Jul 25 13:24:29 I need a openmoko logo with transparent background, anyone know where I can find one ? Jul 25 13:25:17 ieatlint, i just found this using the wayback machine: Monkey Linux v06, May 8 1997 Jul 25 13:25:54 VDVsx: Not sure if any of these are trans: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork Jul 25 13:25:59 hehe Jul 25 13:26:02 http://web.archive.org/web/19990129014834/www.spsselib.hiedu.cz/monkey/ Jul 25 13:26:30 dino-, no :( Jul 25 13:26:53 oh man, i remember the 3c59x module! Jul 25 13:27:06 i had a isa 3com card Jul 25 13:27:43 those were the days Jul 25 13:27:51 ne2000! hell yeah Jul 25 13:28:06 so few people these days know what ne2000 is... Jul 25 13:28:32 they only know rtl8139 Jul 25 13:28:47 VDVsx: click the moko-plain-transparent one on this site Jul 25 13:29:19 hehe, i remember when rtl8139 was unstable Jul 25 13:29:37 balrog-k1n: ah ok, I see thanks, but I need the horizontal logo :) Jul 25 13:29:47 and i'm really too young to make statements like "i remember when.." Jul 25 13:31:37 has anyone of you already got the invisibleShield Jul 25 13:31:59 bumbl, yep, finished installing the full body just a few hours ago Jul 25 13:33:55 ieatlint: how is the quality, how difficult is it to install, would you mind taking a photo? Jul 25 13:33:56 ieatlint: so, happy ? Jul 25 13:34:12 ieatlint, redhat 5.1 http://www.macx.dk/50_Best_Tech/images/130207-45_redhatLinux_b.jpg redhat 6.2 http://everythinglinux.org/redhat62/ss1.jpg Jul 25 13:34:28 uhm, overall i'd say the full body isn't worth it Jul 25 13:34:42 the installation isn't too difficult, but kinda annoying Jul 25 13:34:48 a little tedious Jul 25 13:35:01 i've ordered a screen-only one :) Jul 25 13:36:09 I've got a screen-only one Jul 25 13:36:13 it seems pretty good Jul 25 13:36:26 make the screen a little more rubbery-feeling Jul 25 13:36:33 er, it makes the screen etc Jul 25 13:36:42 join #openmoko-cdevel Jul 25 13:36:56 Ainulindale: I gone through USB networking , my resolve.conf look like this URL: http://rafb.net/p/H14QMT16.html Jul 25 13:37:02 oops, sorry! Jul 25 13:37:17 can you verify it once Jul 25 13:37:19 and how long did you have to wait unil it was shipped? Jul 25 13:37:37 ECRAVEN Jul 25 13:37:54 mine is ubuntu system Jul 25 13:37:57 IEATLINUX Jul 25 13:38:50 just took pics, need to take them off my camera and upload Jul 25 13:40:09 * araujo waiting for next shipment Jul 25 13:40:59 what other openmoko channels are there? Jul 25 13:42:08 there's the german neo1973 hackers channel Jul 25 13:42:12 pjz: there is neo1973-germany Jul 25 13:42:48 Hei bumble :] Jul 25 13:43:04 ieatlint, kinky. Jul 25 13:43:17 return -ECRAVEN; Jul 25 13:43:36 Dave, don't get your hopes up, i'm not uploading the naked pics of my girlfriend from this cf card Jul 25 13:43:59 hi Dave Jul 25 13:44:00 ieatlint: you're supposed to erase those after she dumps you Jul 25 13:44:19 :] Jul 25 13:44:23 hah, nope Jul 25 13:44:27 balrogkun ^^ Jul 25 13:44:47 we broke up for a year... i asked her if i should, she said no, then got kinda offended that i would even ask Jul 25 13:44:53 as though "why would you want to?" Jul 25 13:45:02 haha :P Jul 25 13:45:07 smooth Jul 25 13:45:51 pjz: If he does, he'll have nothing on her to stop her uploading the video of him in a tutu doing the dance of the sugar plum fairy to youtube ;) Jul 25 13:46:21 leinir, he probably dances better than you, anyway :P Jul 25 13:46:41 i would be surprised if that were not the case, my balance isn't particularly good ;) Jul 25 13:47:07 Plus for all you know, he makes that tutu look hot ;) Jul 25 13:47:13 i have a bad tendency to walk into doors and stuff like that, makes me look kinda silly ;) Jul 25 13:47:50 anybody got swap on their mokos? Jul 25 13:47:53 uploading pics now Jul 25 13:48:00 *giggles* of course! that doesn't mean straight-boi over there wanna get it plastered on the intartubes ;) Jul 25 13:48:03 haha Jul 25 13:48:06 apparently compiling this takes too much ram Jul 25 13:48:14 swap on! Jul 25 13:48:33 i don't dance :P Jul 25 13:48:38 i should though, hehe Jul 25 13:48:41 swap on an sd card should be pretty fast i guess Jul 25 13:48:45 i don't care about being made a fool Jul 25 13:48:54 any woman i'd want would just laugh with me Jul 25 13:49:08 * leinir gets this flash of Dave doing the Fantastic Four pose as he says that... Jul 25 13:49:29 :D Jul 25 13:49:32 ieatlint: Of course! :) Jul 25 13:49:33 fuck yeah! Jul 25 13:49:51 and most of my friends are gay, as a response to your straight-boi remark :P Jul 25 13:49:55 fossi, it's not bad Jul 25 13:50:02 o.O Jul 25 13:50:34 he's more promiscuous than my freerunner's filesystem Jul 25 13:50:49 ieatlint: That's why i knew i could say it and not have you throw a hissy-fit :) *giggles* i have no intention of actually pissing anyone off, that'd be silly :) Jul 25 13:51:24 :P Jul 25 13:52:36 http://picasaweb.google.com/ieatlint/Invisibleshield Jul 25 13:52:37 opendeep: if you can't even ping a computer in your network, it's probably an ip forward issue on the host Jul 25 13:52:42 Dave: you still didn't answer to me Jul 25 13:53:02 as a warning, there's a pretty sexy pant covered leg in those pics too... (just be happy i'm wearing pants!) Jul 25 13:53:38 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rf31e95895002 10/src/zhone: fix startup ordering, reload messagebook on new message Jul 25 13:53:38 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r3bfc864302f9 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): use the contact list when sending SMS Jul 25 13:53:38 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r5538e8e37d4c 10/src/zhone: resolve number in SMS list Jul 25 13:54:00 glossy Jul 25 13:54:33 yeah Jul 25 13:54:45 the top and bottom kinda suck Jul 25 13:54:50 SAh yes Jul 25 13:54:55 it does like a flower pedal type thing... Jul 25 13:54:55 ainu, you were doing sms app right? Jul 25 13:54:57 or messaging Jul 25 13:55:12 ieatlint? o.O Jul 25 13:55:34 InvisibleLint! Jul 25 13:55:35 Ainulindale: do i need to set DNS of desktop in device? Jul 25 13:56:12 when i go to linuxworld, i plan on holding one without the shield next to mine to really feel the difference Jul 25 13:56:17 Fossi - Be careful placing your swap file on the sd card. there is the issue of the slow bus speed, that might end up with a heavy io confict. Jul 25 13:56:58 Fossi, do you even need swap? Jul 25 13:57:03 i never fill my FR's ram Jul 25 13:57:20 Lint, it looks like it kind of sucks... Jul 25 13:57:30 was it a pain to put on, too? Jul 25 13:57:40 ieatlint: i'm currently compiling on the moko Jul 25 13:57:43 Dave: not at all Jul 25 13:57:45 wait, i take that back.... how the fuck am i using all but 11mb of ram? Jul 25 13:57:56 cross compiling crystalspace didn't work out so well Jul 25 13:58:01 wtf is openmoko-today? Jul 25 13:58:01 dude leave your freerunner on for 24hr Jul 25 13:58:04 opendeep: again, no relation to DNS there, it's a forward and/or routing problem Jul 25 13:58:04 it runs out of memory Jul 25 13:58:05 HAHAHAHA Jul 25 13:58:12 ieatlint, it runs all the openmoko apps Jul 25 13:58:13 Dave: that's what swap is for. Jul 25 13:58:14 :D Jul 25 13:58:26 SPEEDEVILSURPRISE! Jul 25 13:58:28 opendeep: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward Jul 25 13:58:29 And yes, clearly :p Jul 25 13:58:41 lol, killing it rebooted matchbox Jul 25 13:59:01 damn, there are some very serious memory leaks! Jul 25 13:59:12 yep Jul 25 13:59:17 no fucking kidding Jul 25 13:59:23 practically everything leaks like a motherfucker! Jul 25 13:59:34 Ainulindale: above command given 0 Jul 25 13:59:35 opkg, tango, om itself, om-*-2 Jul 25 13:59:46 it all leaks like a petrified pair of huggies Jul 25 13:59:48 someone get their ass on valgrind for fuck's sake Jul 25 13:59:54 I know, right? Jul 25 13:59:55 :p Jul 25 14:00:04 lazy programmerses, we hateses them. Jul 25 14:00:13 opendeep: so you didn't read correctly the wiki, as it tells you to set that to 1 Jul 25 14:00:18 opendeep: so please re-read it Jul 25 14:00:24 * Dave throws doughnuts at Ainulindale Jul 25 14:00:24 And check if everything is set right Jul 25 14:00:35 * CaptObviousman catches donuts and starts eating Jul 25 14:00:45 * CaptObviousman immediately gains 5 lbs Jul 25 14:01:01 :D Jul 25 14:01:05 Dave: If you keep throwing doughnuts at me I'll put an easter egg to blow your phone off when dialer3 will be out Jul 25 14:01:13 i don't want to offend any programmers here... but... Jul 25 14:01:17 Hooray! Jul 25 14:01:23 there are just some very sad mistakes they've made Jul 25 14:01:28 Oh by the way Jul 25 14:01:28 no kidding Jul 25 14:01:39 Is anyone interested by building a "mood" daemon ? Jul 25 14:01:48 no Jul 25 14:01:52 :-P Jul 25 14:01:54 A daemon which would listen to the accelerometers and play a "mooooo" sound when you switch it over ? Jul 25 14:02:06 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Jul 25 14:02:08 lol Jul 25 14:02:12 Ainulindale: I will fucking PAY you to do that! Jul 25 14:02:21 that's actually not too easy to write Jul 25 14:02:23 It's better than a simple hello word to build a demo :-) Jul 25 14:02:28 It's like turning the freerunner into a moobox Jul 25 14:02:29 :DDDDD Jul 25 14:02:44 the problem is that the accelerometer will read the same values when upside down as rightside up Jul 25 14:02:54 It's totally non-trivial because step one is, replacing neod :P Jul 25 14:02:56 haha Jul 25 14:03:01 the rest is jokingly simple. Jul 25 14:03:04 ieatlint: that's why you have to detect the gesture Jul 25 14:03:08 and why don't we say "upside down" and "upside right" or up? Jul 25 14:03:12 assuming all the sound components fucntion properly Jul 25 14:03:36 why would it read the same thing when updside down? Jul 25 14:03:44 it doesn't Jul 25 14:03:50 it does directions fine Jul 25 14:03:52 acellerometers detect the orientation of gravity Jul 25 14:03:54 peepsalot: Because ieatlint thinks so =) Jul 25 14:03:55 orientations rather Jul 25 14:04:09 screw you all :P Jul 25 14:04:09 ieatlint defies gravity, apparently. Jul 25 14:04:14 damn right i do Jul 25 14:04:16 he must be HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE Jul 25 14:04:18 :P Jul 25 14:04:24 Dave: Mooooooooouuuuuuge Jul 25 14:04:24 maybe he lives in space Jul 25 14:04:25 gravity is not 1g here Jul 25 14:04:27 :D Jul 25 14:04:27 it varies Jul 25 14:04:29 hahaha Jul 25 14:04:44 Attack of the secret Bovine Programmers? Jul 25 14:04:59 Seriously, once dialer3 will be finished, I'll build a mood Jul 25 14:05:02 i'll slaughter them and bbq their asses Jul 25 14:05:08 Just to have some fun. Jul 25 14:05:12 Yeah, but won't that take *forever* Ainulindale? Jul 25 14:05:16 "apt-get moo" Jul 25 14:05:22 Dave: nope Jul 25 14:05:33 even with all the problems you've been having Jul 25 14:05:41 Ainulindale, i like your idea. i thought you were gonna say some stupid crap about storing the user's mood, and doing some crap about it, like chaning the color of leds , etc. Jul 25 14:05:42 or are they slowly getting resolved, with help? Jul 25 14:05:51 hahahhaa peepsalot Jul 25 14:05:52 Dave: we had no problems Jul 25 14:05:58 Just some questions Jul 25 14:05:59 sounds girly :P Jul 25 14:06:04 Ainulindale: ah, okay Jul 25 14:06:16 So, it'll be done inside a week's time? Jul 25 14:06:17 :D Jul 25 14:06:27 peepsalot: If I did want that I wouldn't have bought a Neo, I would have bought a nabaztag Jul 25 14:06:33 Dave: Seriously, I think so Jul 25 14:06:38 Wow :D Jul 25 14:06:40 awesome Jul 25 14:06:49 Only problem there are only two people working on it right now Jul 25 14:06:52 what's a nabaztag? Jul 25 14:06:55 Yeah :P Jul 25 14:07:04 If we were four, two could focus on messages2 (the patch is rather simple) Jul 25 14:07:07 ieatlint: german for douchebag? Jul 25 14:07:10 :P Jul 25 14:07:12 ieatlint: a dumb device Jul 25 14:07:23 ieatlint: http://www.nabaztag.com/fr/index.html Jul 25 14:07:26 without the fr Jul 25 14:07:29 in my limited knowledge of german, it doesn't mean douchebag Jul 25 14:07:41 :p Jul 25 14:07:45 schwachkopf is douchebag according to my dictionary Jul 25 14:07:54 hah Jul 25 14:08:05 ieatlint: I thought it was debianuzer in german Jul 25 14:08:12 >:O Jul 25 14:08:14 lol Jul 25 14:08:16 lol Jul 25 14:08:19 * Dave beats Ainulindale Jul 25 14:08:21 :-) Jul 25 14:08:26 :P Jul 25 14:08:28 debianbenutzer, actually Jul 25 14:08:30 What's the word for superhero? Jul 25 14:08:41 oder debiannutzer Jul 25 14:08:50 debianbuntuizer? Jul 25 14:08:55 :p Jul 25 14:08:59 lol, superhero isn't in this Jul 25 14:09:00 then it takes care of both Jul 25 14:09:08 :| Jul 25 14:09:10 what is? Jul 25 14:09:11 hero? Jul 25 14:09:12 i will load the all-inclusive dictionary Jul 25 14:09:17 awesome? Jul 25 14:09:23 der Superheld Jul 25 14:09:27 bah Jul 25 14:11:12 the funny and common translations are with the german words dick, fahrt and mist Jul 25 14:11:22 duitstalig. zwak. Jul 25 14:11:22 which translate as thick, drive and crap Jul 25 14:11:31 eg, sierra mist == sierra crap Jul 25 14:11:41 yum? Jul 25 14:12:03 and dicke fraue == thick women Jul 25 14:12:30 o_O Jul 25 14:12:31 uhh Jul 25 14:12:38 sounds deceptively unappealing Jul 25 14:13:31 es tut mir leid, ich verstehe nicht deutsch :) (this is the only expression i remember from my school:)) Jul 25 14:13:48 ach, du tust mir leid Jul 25 14:14:03 ;) Jul 25 14:15:11 you need to expand your german knowledge, there are many important phrases Jul 25 14:15:13 hi, any israelis here? that already have an openmoko somehow? Jul 25 14:15:31 * Sonicadvance1 ducks and covers Jul 25 14:15:38 eg, "das ist mein bein eigentlich" == "that's actually my leg" Jul 25 14:18:52 guess not... Jul 25 14:22:14 "das ist eigentlich mein bein" Jul 25 14:22:20 i guess Jul 25 14:22:39 Ich habe eine exam tomorrow Jul 25 14:23:08 Ich habe morgen ein Examen. Jul 25 14:23:35 why not "Ich habe ein Examen in der morgen" Jul 25 14:23:42 <- one thing I can :) Jul 25 14:23:58 because time precedes subject Jul 25 14:24:08 hmm Jul 25 14:24:17 in der morgen is totally wrong Jul 25 14:24:25 i think i'll fuck up in tomorrow's exam Jul 25 14:24:31 i'll have to write a comosition of 90 words Jul 25 14:24:39 auf deutsch? Jul 25 14:24:42 if its in the morning it's am morgen Jul 25 14:24:44 Ja Jul 25 14:24:50 hey what do you guys have for: ls -la /sbin/init on your device? Jul 25 14:24:50 viel glück Jul 25 14:24:53 cheesy: am Morgen ;) Jul 25 14:25:05 ieatlint: danke Jul 25 14:25:15 Tanuva: you're right Jul 25 14:25:21 ich habe mein hausaufgabe vergessen Jul 25 14:25:23 ieatlint: Hast du ein website dass hilfen mich ? Jul 25 14:25:23 only thing i remember Jul 25 14:25:28 as i recall, it's time place subject in german Jul 25 14:25:29 do you have a website that would help me ? Jul 25 14:25:37 balrog-k1n: hausaufgabe is female, "meine hausaufgabe" :) Jul 25 14:25:55 CVirus: dict.leo.org Jul 25 14:26:06 "hast du einen website, was mir helfe" i think Jul 25 14:26:19 i knew something was goingto be wrong :) Jul 25 14:26:27 and yeah, dict.leo.org rules Jul 25 14:26:34 ieatlint: thanks Jul 25 14:26:37 cheesy: thanks Jul 25 14:26:49 it never fails for dictionary lookup, and has a very decent "vocab trainer" Jul 25 14:26:52 np Jul 25 14:26:57 it's in deutsch ! Jul 25 14:26:57 Anyone feel like making a trip to their local Apple Store to ask why the iPhone doesn't allow free software to be installed? :) http://digg.com/linux_unix/5_Questions_Give_Apple_the_iPhone_Challenge_2 Jul 25 14:27:07 CVirus, click the union jack Jul 25 14:27:24 drück den union jack ;) Jul 25 14:27:27 huh ? Jul 25 14:27:41 CVirus: i thought you want to learn german Jul 25 14:27:42 the british/uk flag Jul 25 14:27:53 CVirus: but there is a english version too Jul 25 14:28:11 CVirus: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lang=en&lp=ende&search= Jul 25 14:28:23 oh wait, it's not a union jack, it's the "English Version" button Jul 25 14:28:40 anyway, the fact it's in german shouldn't matter much :P Jul 25 14:28:52 or you click the link i posted Jul 25 14:28:55 you a year one? Jul 25 14:29:14 or this shorter link (hah!): http://dict.leo.org/ende?lang=en Jul 25 14:29:32 thanks Jul 25 14:29:41 maybe you could even use tinyurl Jul 25 14:30:22 me was teh faul Jul 25 14:30:26 german has the craziest grammar, and i nevere understood it all Jul 25 14:31:12 but in english, any time you use can use "that" to bridge two clauses, you must use both a comma and a preposition in german Jul 25 14:31:17 I hear there are spiffy qtopia daily builds someplace. Where do I find them? :) Jul 25 14:31:42 eg, "i knew i was stupid" is "ich weiß, das ich dumme bin" Jul 25 14:32:12 ieatlint: english has much easier grammar...still i make mistakes all the time :) Jul 25 14:32:23 we all do :) Jul 25 14:32:41 i make less mistakes than most Jul 25 14:33:22 internet (chat) is destroying grammar anyway Jul 25 14:33:29 the average american does not know when to use fewer vs less, or was vs were in hypothetical situations Jul 25 14:33:35 no capitals etc. Jul 25 14:34:20 classically, supermarkets with "10 items or less" lanes Jul 25 14:34:37 Were I to find the qtopia daily image where would I be looking? Jul 25 14:34:38 fewer is used when referring to a specific number... Jul 25 14:39:38 How to get 100 mbit over GPRS. Jul 25 14:39:40 http://www.xkcd.com/ Jul 25 14:40:48 that totally works... Jul 25 14:41:53 i just realised i am quite covered in cuts from a kitten :( Jul 25 14:44:54 ieatlint: thank you i should be a bit smarter now ;) Jul 25 14:46:15 [16:31:42] eg, "i knew i was stupid" is "ich weiß, das ich dumme bin" <- it's even more difficult because it is not "das" but "dass" Jul 25 14:46:45 ah, that crazy language reform Jul 25 14:47:03 the whole exclusion of daß confused me all the more Jul 25 14:47:05 before the language reform it was daß Jul 25 14:47:07 dass versus das... Jul 25 14:48:11 it sometimes even confuses the natives */me thinks of his german teacher going mad after one test because half of the class gave a damn on das dass* Jul 25 14:48:26 Ah, ze Germans Jul 25 14:48:56 yeah, half my german friends insist on daß Jul 25 14:49:10 although, i suppose with the language reform, it's weiss and not weiß, isn't it? Jul 25 14:49:16 Then the umulat vs ue thing Jul 25 14:49:39 but word order in german is easier than in english: in theory you are able to order them to your liking but the predicate has to be on the second position in a normal sentence Jul 25 14:49:46 that's different, ü is ue Jul 25 14:49:50 no it is still weiß Jul 25 14:50:03 äöü Jul 25 14:50:11 yep Jul 25 14:50:14 ieatlint: well yes. Jul 25 14:50:21 you and your confusing langauge :P Jul 25 14:50:40 our spelling/pronunciation may be crazy, but our grammar really isn't too bad Jul 25 14:51:01 Just don't say "informations" Jul 25 14:51:06 we don't have 3 genders for one thing, just 1 Jul 25 14:51:23 actually, you do Jul 25 14:51:24 only 3? :o Jul 25 14:51:59 hi there Jul 25 14:52:14 what I hate is russian grammar; it is hard to learn and they seem to have an exception for nearly everything; english and spanish seem easier to learn Jul 25 14:52:17 we have a handful of gender-specific noun Jul 25 14:52:18 s Jul 25 14:52:34 although they're disappearing Jul 25 14:52:34 bumbl: french is harder to learn Jul 25 14:52:52 actor and waiter are now appropriate for male and female Jul 25 14:53:12 god, goddess; host, hostess ... all can use the masculine form for either gender now Jul 25 14:53:22 more or less Jul 25 14:53:52 we have bizarre prepositions at times though Jul 25 14:54:02 * Chocky goes boldly. Jul 25 14:54:04 i ride in a car, and on the train ... Jul 25 14:54:17 in german you can make funny long names like eisenbahnfahrermützenhersteller, that are correct german words Jul 25 14:54:21 i like that :) Jul 25 14:54:21 Personally, I ride in the train ;-) Jul 25 14:54:22 * gmaxwell checks the channel name Jul 25 14:54:38 the problem with french is that the pronounciation is totally diffrent to how you spell the word i think; can't tell for sure though because I am only having english, spanish, russian and latin at school Jul 25 14:54:46 s/names/nouns/ Jul 25 14:54:50 "only" Jul 25 14:54:55 bumbl, only kinda Jul 25 14:54:57 i'm a french speaker Jul 25 14:55:01 french is weird for people who don't speak it Jul 25 14:55:04 we have a lot of homophones Jul 25 14:55:10 but the letter combinations make specific sounds Jul 25 14:55:14 bumbl: if you know Spansih pronunciation, you know almost all French Jul 25 14:55:38 english is crazy because it has words from so many languages that you have to know where the word is from to pronounce it Jul 25 14:55:39 sure? to me spanish and french sound totally differen Jul 25 14:55:40 t Jul 25 14:55:52 sounds the same mostly Jul 25 14:56:05 spanish from spain maybe Jul 25 14:56:06 They're distinct languages, but have much in common Jul 25 14:56:15 mexican spanish... completely different from french Jul 25 14:56:29 BURRRRITTO Jul 25 14:56:29 i dislike the sound of it... spanish spanish is pleasant, although not as pleasant as french Jul 25 14:56:40 italian falls between spanish spanish and mexican spanish Jul 25 14:56:47 fantastico Jul 25 14:56:51 yup french sound pretty good compared to english :P Jul 25 14:57:05 Yes, except for rock songs Jul 25 14:57:09 lol Jul 25 14:57:09 but our internets are killing your languages! Jul 25 14:57:16 Is there an i8n effort for OpenMoko? Jul 25 14:57:31 i8n? Jul 25 14:57:44 Thank god english speaking nations were in power during globalization. Jul 25 14:57:48 borg_: yes that's quite funny to compose such words, in elementary school we composed a noun with >50 letters which was correct german grammer and made more or less sense Jul 25 14:57:48 l10n Jul 25 14:57:50 i8n = internationalization Jul 25 14:57:55 lol Jul 25 14:57:59 bumbl: :) Jul 25 14:58:18 Sargun_screen: It's i18n, not i8n ;) Jul 25 14:58:23 (count the letters) Jul 25 14:58:24 it's because germanic countries generally prefer learning english over french, and the rest of the developed world tends to speak english Jul 25 14:58:32 yeah! internet kills ervery language ;) Jul 25 14:58:47 the rest of europe thinks france is as arrogant as we americans do Jul 25 14:58:49 Even English - "lol" Jul 25 14:58:50 i must have got one of the better FRs for gps Jul 25 14:58:51 i'm learning russian on my own Jul 25 14:58:55 Sargun_screen, you mean i18n Jul 25 14:58:55 (the also think the uk is just as arrogant) Jul 25 14:59:08 gmaxwell: That's kinda what i said ;) Jul 25 14:59:14 and the americans are mostly mindless bumbling idiots who meddle in others' affairs Jul 25 14:59:21 UK arrogance is different. Jul 25 14:59:35 which is why i say i'm from california, and not the US :P Jul 25 14:59:37 [16:57:09] but our internets are killing your languages! <- full ack Jul 25 14:59:42 can someone tell me which version of openmoko is selling Jul 25 14:59:51 I'm from California (now) and lived in the UK Jul 25 14:59:51 a5 or a6 Jul 25 14:59:56 v6 Jul 25 15:00:02 i should put the california flag on my bags like the canadians put their flag on theirs when traveling abroad Jul 25 15:00:15 k thiz an il pr0j3ct Jul 25 15:00:16 ieatlint@tehinterweb.com Jul 25 15:00:24 :o Jul 25 15:00:28 so it's the final hardware... Jul 25 15:00:31 that's my email address too :) Jul 25 15:00:47 linty: British do that even more so. Jul 25 15:01:07 Esp naturalized Asians Jul 25 15:01:32 * joejarvis also checks channel title Jul 25 15:01:37 /add to spam ieatlint@tehinterweb.com Jul 25 15:01:46 open = open, moko = language discussion Jul 25 15:02:17 well, i'm from a proud minority that is actually aware of the outside world, and can identify an irish, scottish and english flag (nobody cares about wales) Jul 25 15:02:25 any advice to learn russian without cours? Jul 25 15:02:31 books? Jul 25 15:02:36 Actually, where I come from, a moko is a full face "tattoo". I quote that, because it's actually chiselled in, rather than just ink. Jul 25 15:03:01 sybesis: books are a good starting point Jul 25 15:03:12 linty: I know, too few vowels. Jul 25 15:03:15 ieatlint: only when they are punching their mothers in posh london hotels.. Jul 25 15:03:18 Whoa, that's scary Jul 25 15:03:23 but you need either a native or some audio guide to train the pronounciation Jul 25 15:03:36 i listen to radio a lot Jul 25 15:03:46 and i have a correspondant Jul 25 15:03:52 Radio announcers don't sound like normal people. Jul 25 15:03:59 They talk fast too Jul 25 15:04:10 or they sound like BBC English Jul 25 15:04:14 i just lack the grammar and vocabulary...i can read by the way Jul 25 15:04:23 Chocky: bbc english is fine Jul 25 15:04:24 but i don't know what it means Jul 25 15:04:27 when I opkg update , got Signature check failed error , so need to set dns name of desktop in device resolve.conf ? Jul 25 15:04:44 bumbl: yes, but it doesn't help at all to understand for example, The Patter Jul 25 15:05:41 Listen to podcasts Jul 25 15:06:33 sybesis: learning reading is easy but the next step is hard, i have been learning it for two years now and i could read after 2 months but at the moment I am only able to do very very basic communication with many grammar mistakes Jul 25 15:07:22 from what i know the case things are pretty cool Jul 25 15:08:00 Patter = mix of English, Scots, slang and heavy accect spoken in Glasgow Jul 25 15:09:27 i plan to move to russia for school for some time... i won't have much choice to learn it pretty fast Jul 25 15:09:51 In Soviet russia, lanugage learn you! Jul 25 15:10:00 yes it does Jul 25 15:10:08 Chocky: yes but one is only able to watch cnn, bbc international and bbc prime you won't hear any local dialect Jul 25 15:10:16 * if one Jul 25 15:10:49 what is valid DNS server, I put 192.168.0.200 and ping is working so does it mean dns is valid? Jul 25 15:11:29 opendeep: try to ping www.google.com and you will know Jul 25 15:11:34 opendeep: if you ping a fqdn, yes. if not, no Jul 25 15:11:44 bumbl: true, you won't get many Glaswegians on BBC, but you could get Brummies and people frmo Newcastle, which may be challenging for an American to understand Jul 25 15:12:23 sooo...i upgraded my ASU last night, and suddenly exposure wont run....anyone know any fixes for this? Jul 25 15:12:34 exposure never ran for me.. Jul 25 15:12:37 exposure has never run for me. I still don't know what it does Jul 25 15:12:52 bumbl: on Neo1973 ping www.google.com ---> ping: bad address 'www.google.com' Jul 25 15:12:53 its a nice settings gui...it was working for me before Jul 25 15:13:18 opendeep: set your /etc/resolv.conf Jul 25 15:13:45 it's set to 192.168.0.200 Jul 25 15:14:01 set it to an opendns ip addy Jul 25 15:14:01 any news about the gps problem? Jul 25 15:14:02 opendeep: then it does not seem to be the proper dns Jul 25 15:14:16 sybesis: try latest kernel Jul 25 15:14:21 opendeep: can you ping your network ? Jul 25 15:14:33 opendeep change the address to: 208.67.220.220 Jul 25 15:14:34 If you can, now, try putting your host resolv.conf in the neo's Jul 25 15:14:55 i dont have a moko for now :( still waiting magick money Jul 25 15:15:30 I prefer to run dnsmasq on my linux box & leave the nameserver in resolv.conf pointing to my linx machine, personally Jul 25 15:15:33 Pyrasi: asu seems to be pretty screwed up at the moment which indicates that it is under heavy development, each time I do a opkg upgrade something ceases to work but another thing starts to work again Jul 25 15:15:59 heh Jul 25 15:16:04 * Chocky finds it all unusuable Jul 25 15:16:12 bumbl: do you have the repositories pointed to the ASU stuff? Jul 25 15:16:20 hm, tangogps update Jul 25 15:16:21 by default they are pointed to the wrong repos Jul 25 15:16:32 Pyrasi: yes I changed that Jul 25 15:16:42 according to the mailing list Jul 25 15:16:44 guys, is anyone here in taiwan? Jul 25 15:17:27 hmm...thats sad then =( Mine works really well atm except for exposure. The phone calls are working well enough, the sound comes back after resume, and the little red light even comes on when charging =) Jul 25 15:17:52 i even got vte (terminal app) working last night Jul 25 15:19:00 do you guys pay for incoming sms? Jul 25 15:19:17 Nope Jul 25 15:19:21 yes, this is the United States of Telco Monopoly Jul 25 15:19:22 no (lol) Jul 25 15:19:35 Ah so its your fault Jul 25 15:19:35 yea...i do too Jul 25 15:19:42 I hate US Jul 25 15:19:49 Canada is becoming like US Jul 25 15:19:58 or rather, I don't, since I don't have any service right now Jul 25 15:20:19 Ainulindale: I tried with host DNS servers, but no effect , see this log URL: http://rafb.net/p/ajTbDz94.html Jul 25 15:20:32 thats silly, so if you get tons of advertisement sms you pay for it? Jul 25 15:20:34 opendeep: are you able to ping your network or not ? Jul 25 15:20:39 I'm just seriously scared, i got my phone sms spammed last month Jul 25 15:20:47 If you can't, you won't be able to do a thing, as I told you before Jul 25 15:21:14 actually, in japan, you pay for incoming emails on your cell so spam gets realy expensive. Jul 25 15:21:19 you have to pay to receive sms? are they crazy? i don't even pay for sending sms Jul 25 15:21:29 they do, because they can Jul 25 15:21:34 btw,, thats for iMode. Jul 25 15:21:38 exactly Jul 25 15:21:39 bumbl: Crazy is not the word. Greedy MFers is the word Jul 25 15:21:58 bumbl: in which country are you? Jul 25 15:22:03 Austria Jul 25 15:22:17 wow Jul 25 15:22:20 you can get a sms flat in germany too Jul 25 15:22:24 if you like Jul 25 15:22:38 so you can pay 1000 times what it costs to email Jul 25 15:23:05 I have a contract which suits my needs 0€ basic charge 1000 sms for free 3.9c to all networks Jul 25 15:23:14 Ainulindale:ping to network mean ping host ip from device? Jul 25 15:23:30 and how much is the contract? ;o Jul 25 15:23:48 basic charge 0€ as I told you Jul 25 15:23:56 er. Jul 25 15:24:02 the overall contract? Jul 25 15:24:08 Ainulindale:able to ping my network Jul 25 15:24:10 yes Jul 25 15:24:24 and the calls? Jul 25 15:24:49 3.9c = 0.039c per minute Jul 25 15:25:00 i pay 20$ for 50 min no sms Jul 25 15:25:04 I see, it wasn't very clear from your statement. Jul 25 15:25:07 without fee Jul 25 15:25:09 sybesis: wtf? Jul 25 15:25:22 that's a pretty good deal Jul 25 15:25:30 you can get a flat fpr 20$ per month here Jul 25 15:25:40 here it'd be US$0.10/min without SMS Jul 25 15:26:07 they seriously stole us here Jul 25 15:26:28 if i have to pay incoming sms that will be just crazy Jul 25 15:26:32 opendeep: I don't mean the 192.168.0.200 ip Jul 25 15:26:52 I mean any other computer on your network, as an example Jul 25 15:27:20 thats why developping thing like voip and openmoko is a good thing... Jul 25 15:27:21 Ainulindale:I able to ping other systems in my network from device Jul 25 15:27:33 wimax too if it doesn't cost a arm Jul 25 15:27:49 opendeep: then on your host system, get an IP of a known website, and try to ping it from the Neo Jul 25 15:28:10 it was a kind of pr campain last christmas (usually one would have to pay 3.9€ standing fee/basic charge per month) so that I don't have to pay any fees for 20 months (and a minimum contract period of 18 months) Jul 25 15:28:15 because cellphone company clearly make the price higher than needed because there is the market and people don't have any choice than to pay their price Jul 25 15:29:20 thats like 6$ or 7$ per month Jul 25 15:29:23 there's always the choice not to get one. Jul 25 15:29:36 i have because i live in an appartement Jul 25 15:29:41 FR is my first phone in 3 years Jul 25 15:29:51 and we don't have anything else...i could buy a padget Jul 25 15:29:52 and that was a Nokia 3210 in the UK Jul 25 15:30:06 and I still don't have a plan yet Jul 25 15:30:16 isn't there something like a competition in the US and canada; i know there aren't any regulators like for example in austria Jul 25 15:30:39 there is no meaningful competition in the US Jul 25 15:30:40 there is no real competition Jul 25 15:30:47 same here Jul 25 15:31:00 it start a bit with virgin mobile and koodo Jul 25 15:31:01 for internet, for example, you have the choice of the local cable monopoly or the local phone monopoly Jul 25 15:31:09 ahah yeah Jul 25 15:31:20 thats pretty bad Jul 25 15:31:28 or the company that use the network of these 2 monopoly Jul 25 15:32:10 bell wanted to trothle the speed of their connection for torrents etc. So same if i wasn't with bell explicitely, i had my torrents limited to 30ko/s Jul 25 15:32:15 All the prices for contracts are much the same across wireless carriers - about $40/month for 2 years, and never mind the iPhone debacle. Although T-mobile do a reasonable PAYG deal - $100 for 1000 minutes. Jul 25 15:32:22 try to download a linux distro at this speed Jul 25 15:32:36 yo Jul 25 15:32:36 sybesis: apt-get :o Jul 25 15:32:43 * ronny is unhappy Jul 25 15:32:45 yeah but you still need the ISO Jul 25 15:32:52 that's onl 40MB Jul 25 15:32:57 are the phone companies in the us allowed to arrange prices? they would get sued like hell in germany :) Jul 25 15:33:08 and an HTTP download Jul 25 15:33:08 oh but if you don't want a debian based distro Jul 25 15:33:22 http download is faster thats just ironic Jul 25 15:33:25 no, I don't want an RPM-based no, no matter what. Jul 25 15:34:00 i love my fedora box ;) Jul 25 15:34:17 as for internet: we do have an internet monopoly too: one company which was run by the state in former times owns all the lines; now they are a company of their own and have to sell the cables to other companies Jul 25 15:34:20 except when it has to do something slightly unusual. like, *shock* make a new kernel. that's near impossible. Jul 25 15:34:38 Fedora is too easy to install, and too hard to change. and it's full of problems. Jul 25 15:34:51 didn't ran into any problem Jul 25 15:34:58 yet. you will. Jul 25 15:35:02 borg_: in the us they don't have such nice regulators and kartellaufsichtbehörden like in europe Jul 25 15:35:14 nah i'm used to it Jul 25 15:35:20 i don't call it problem Jul 25 15:35:24 I especially hate how that if a package's post install step fails, it's still considered successfully installed. Jul 25 15:35:26 just pleasure of life Jul 25 15:35:38 no, broken :o Jul 25 15:35:40 it never happened Jul 25 15:35:52 ok, please tell me how to make a custom kernel under Fedora Jul 25 15:36:02 or indeed, install stock kernel from kernel.org Jul 25 15:36:15 the only problem i had was when using smart package manager and i didn't looked at which repos i was updating from... Jul 25 15:36:23 i was updating from rawhide Jul 25 15:36:27 RPM hell. Jul 25 15:36:37 *facepalm* Jul 25 15:36:40 and wasn't able to go back to previous version Jul 25 15:36:44 deb hell Jul 25 15:36:49 oh please Jul 25 15:36:54 emerge Jul 25 15:36:57 ricers. Jul 25 15:37:05 \o/ Jul 25 15:37:05 are there any ui-enhancements since the freeruner relases? Jul 25 15:37:12 many Jul 25 15:37:14 portage rocks Jul 25 15:37:17 ricers! Jul 25 15:37:18 fireworks Jul 25 15:37:31 bumbl: portage o/ Jul 25 15:37:41 \o Jul 25 15:37:53 we should have portage on the moko Jul 25 15:37:55 portage <3 Jul 25 15:37:56 So, what's the point of Openmoko? Jul 25 15:37:58 no shitty crosscompiling Jul 25 15:38:10 KillrSunsetNinja: there's none. bye. Jul 25 15:38:14 Fossi: exactly what I thought last week Jul 25 15:38:15 yeah, no shitty short compiles ;-) Jul 25 15:38:27 KillrSunsetNinja: world domination, in the long turn Jul 25 15:38:28 well, it seems i'm too dumb Jul 25 15:38:33 No I meant the device. Jul 25 15:38:34 as soon as I have my laptop back I will try to play with the arm toolchain Jul 25 15:38:34 I'm pretty sure there's an ARM Gentoo port. get going. Jul 25 15:38:46 borg_ Kittie domination Jul 25 15:38:47 there is Jul 25 15:38:52 neither erlang, nor crystalspace wanted to crosscompile Jul 25 15:39:04 people have it ontheir ipaqs and use Jul 25 15:39:07 one is bootstrapping, the other has loads of m4 and jam Jul 25 15:39:31 then again, compiling crystalspace on the moko uses too muc hmemory Jul 25 15:39:33 * Chocky shudders at jam. Jul 25 15:39:41 jam is actually quite nice Jul 25 15:39:42 KillrSunsetNinja: It's a phone Jul 25 15:39:50 Chocky: yes there is one; portage is python and if debian runs on the neo gentoo should be running too Jul 25 15:39:56 the cs version is a bit, um, extended though Jul 25 15:40:03 less talk, more do. Jul 25 15:40:14 ARM Slackware will run just fine too. Jul 25 15:40:28 lot of work make jack a dull boy Jul 25 15:40:31 hm, when will the phones arrive at openmoko.com? /me wants Jul 25 15:41:37 olejorgenb: the european resellers get the next batch the 15.8.2008 Jul 25 15:42:38 The next batch of shipments are scheduled to arrive on July 25th. Jul 25 15:42:47 thats what it says Jul 25 15:43:14 sybesis: no that was the planned date Jul 25 15:43:27 but due to the gps issue they get it later Jul 25 15:43:34 Chocky: well, how do you crosscompile? do you use om-conf? Jul 25 15:43:41 the freerunners will include a Jul 25 15:43:54 rework of the issue though Jul 25 15:44:00 i see Jul 25 15:44:39 openmoko: 03john_lee * r4556 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/dialer.py: Jul 25 15:44:39 openmoko: more support for network registration. Jul 25 15:44:39 openmoko: * typo fix Jul 25 15:44:57 cool Jul 25 15:45:39 do people get good battery life (listening only to music) Jul 25 15:46:38 couple of hours Jul 25 15:47:15 would be cool if holding the aux button would close the screen/touchpad Jul 25 15:47:40 It does that on ASU :) Jul 25 15:47:46 :D Jul 25 15:48:21 wouldn't it be cool if that was an easy configuration setting? Jul 25 15:48:22 i imagine in case of incoming call the screen is waken up Jul 25 15:48:37 key bindings Jul 25 15:49:42 a little config file that may contain key binding...click/hold button and screen region Jul 25 15:52:23 a bit like what gnome lets you do Jul 25 15:52:41 creating key combination that will call a program Jul 25 15:55:10 well good day all, i need food for my math exam Jul 25 15:55:14 good luck Jul 25 16:04:34 Hi all, i am from peru, i would like to know how can i buy the neo freerunner Jul 25 16:04:48 visit the shop when they have some. Jul 25 16:04:49 and what kind of instant messenger software openmoko uses Jul 25 16:04:54 or there's one on ebay Jul 25 16:05:17 for example if i want to use windows live messenger, is there a way i can do it with open moko? Jul 25 16:05:20 whatever Linux IM client you want to port, install, etc Jul 25 16:05:24 oh dear Jul 25 16:05:31 that is a Windows program. Jul 25 16:05:35 so i can use pidgin, etc Jul 25 16:05:45 with some effort, perhaps. Jul 25 16:05:45 emesene Jul 25 16:05:55 Zandini: San Diego! Jul 25 16:06:22 wow, i would like to invest and distribute this cool phone on my country Jul 25 16:06:28 The pidgin UI might not be real suitable to a small screen Jul 25 16:06:32 they are out of stock right? Jul 25 16:06:38 yes Jul 25 16:07:11 unless the online store says otherwise Jul 25 16:10:04 Neo FreeRunner is currently SOLD OUT. Jul 25 16:10:06 The next batch of shipments are scheduled to arrive on July 25th. Jul 25 16:10:10 hope i can get one Jul 25 16:10:13 ^^ Jul 25 16:10:29 well, that is today :p Jul 25 16:13:26 Chocky: , RodGo: pigin runs ok Jul 25 16:13:39 i am trying to emulate openmoko Jul 25 16:13:40 well yes, "runs", I'm sure is no problem. Jul 25 16:13:48 to try it Jul 25 16:13:49 http://20bits.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/emulating-openmoko-on-linux/ Jul 25 16:13:56 that was never my point. Only that these things are designed for a larger desktop system. Jul 25 16:14:57 Chocky: it runs 'ok' Jul 25 16:15:03 * Chocky sighs! Jul 25 16:15:09 it's not really suitable, but it's usable Jul 25 16:15:21 RodGo: there's some horrible wrapping that makes the instructions confusing. Jul 25 16:15:53 as an im client it's fine Jul 25 16:16:09 for irc you have a smallish problem with the roomlist Jul 25 16:16:17 but you can move it all left/right Jul 25 16:16:24 y'know, a UI wrapper that fires up a virtual 1024x768 screen and lets the freerunner zoom up/down/around it would be cool Jul 25 16:16:30 someone must have done a chat client for PDAs, etc. Jul 25 16:16:45 irsii ;) Jul 25 16:16:47 Hobart: xnest on your desktop :o Jul 25 16:16:47 (to run desktop UI apps that haven't had a mobile UI done yet) Jul 25 16:16:56 * Chocky beats fossi Jul 25 16:17:02 hi, i need some help flashing a new kernel, so that i can get the GPS software fix (that lets the sd card clk not always be on) when i do a dfu-util -l, i don't see a bunch of different alts, just one that says "USB Device Firmware Upgrade" Jul 25 16:17:32 Chocky -> yeah - but with a fast drag-around / zoom UI for use on the freerunner Jul 25 16:18:10 is there an accelerated 3D X driver for the freerunner's chip ? Jul 25 16:18:14 * mjr wonders if the glamo can do a virtual desktop directly... Jul 25 16:18:16 not yet Jul 25 16:18:39 still need all the 2D acceleration Jul 25 16:18:52 anybody seen this problem? Jul 25 16:19:08 sirkha: it's not obvious what your problem is. Jul 25 16:19:10 Hobart, if there will be such a thing, it'll be pretty limited too. And it's probably up to third-party reverse engineers to do it if there's to be one. Jul 25 16:19:16 what are "different alts"? Jul 25 16:19:24 have the chip manufacturers been hostile to x devs? hm. :( Jul 25 16:19:32 kernel flashing is well documented on the wiki Jul 25 16:19:42 I'd chip in $40-50 towards having tungsten graphics or whoever do one, it's probably pretty pricey overall though. :| Jul 25 16:19:47 Hobart: like most, not hostile, but apathetic Jul 25 16:19:56 talk to raster, etc. about current status. Jul 25 16:19:57 i can't see the "kernel" partition Jul 25 16:20:11 sirka: how do you expect to "see" it? Jul 25 16:20:22 dfu-util -l Jul 25 16:20:27 sik: please follow the wiki instructions, and explain _exactly_ how you get stuck. Jul 25 16:20:39 don't tell us what you expect to see, tell us what you _do_ see. Jul 25 16:20:44 ok Jul 25 16:20:59 so, i boot into nor Jul 25 16:21:02 Hobart, pretty much the glamo docs are behind nda and the manufacturer isn't very forthcoming even with ndas for non-openmoko employees Jul 25 16:21:12 Fossi, have you tried pidgin on the moko? Jul 25 16:23:05 set usb console to usb it goes black says push aux to return to boot menu, i don't push anything, and it goes back into the boot menu itself. I plug it in, and tried the ./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D uImage-om-gta02-latist.bin Jul 25 16:24:49 the first time i tried that, it says, "cannot find partition kernel" or something like that, and then i lost bluetooth, and since i only have a bluetooth keyboard and mouse on my linux box, i had to reboot (or i suppose i could have plugged in a regular keyboard and mouse, but i didn't) Jul 25 16:25:16 so, i decided i'd learn a little bit, and looked at the options for dfu-util Jul 25 16:25:24 it has a device parameter, and a list parameter Jul 25 16:25:47 i looked at list, saw that my msi bluetooth chip also has a dfu firmware upgrade capability Jul 25 16:25:53 i decided to specify my device Jul 25 16:26:03 well, you didn't type _exactly_ that, since it'd be "latest", not "latist" Jul 25 16:26:30 i am going from memory, not copying and pasting, atm Jul 25 16:26:58 please don't Jul 25 16:27:08 it's imperitive you give the exact commands and error.s Jul 25 16:27:10 errors. Jul 25 16:27:28 otherwise everyone is guessing. Jul 25 16:28:23 ok, one way or another, i can't use that command anymore, cause i have another usb device on the bus. Jul 25 16:29:06 and acording to the wiki, ./dfu-util -l should give me a bunch of partitions Jul 25 16:29:09 and it doesnt Jul 25 16:29:43 ah yes, "doesn't work" Jul 25 16:29:54 where's Dave when I need him. Jul 25 16:30:04 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util#--list Jul 25 16:30:15 doesn't print out anything like that at all Jul 25 16:31:23 dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. Jul 25 16:31:23 This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY Jul 25 16:31:23 Found Runtime: [0x1d50:0x5119] devnum=9, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="USB Device Firmware Upgrade" Jul 25 16:31:23 Found Runtime: [0x0db0:0x6970] devnum=2, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" Jul 25 16:31:34 is what i end up with Jul 25 16:31:55 devnum=9 corrisponds to my openmoko, devnum=2 is my msi bluetooth chip Jul 25 16:32:03 * Chocky tires of the spam. Jul 25 16:32:16 use a pastebin Jul 25 16:32:19 ppplease Jul 25 16:32:56 * richiefrich waits and paces for the OpenMoKo to arrive Jul 25 16:34:02 i would have, if it was more than four lines, and if there was more trafic in the channel Jul 25 16:34:21 it is more than 4 lines. it's been about 50 so far. Jul 25 16:34:41 i was 8 lines Jul 25 16:34:59 can you count? Jul 25 16:35:11 yes, as a matter of fact Jul 25 16:35:16 it was 5 lines Jul 25 16:35:21 no it wasnt Jul 25 16:35:29 and more crap now, from you arguing how many lines it was. Jul 25 16:35:31 * Chocky ignores Jul 25 16:35:39 yes, it was but that has absolutely nothing to do with the issue Jul 25 16:35:44 oh, shut up please Jul 25 16:35:50 lol Jul 25 16:36:20 sirkha: I think it's fare to say, people would rather error messages to be provided in a pastebin, irrespective of how many lines was or was not there. Jul 25 16:36:22 you know what, i just want to get my gps running, and if you guys have to be *ommitted explitives* about ti, i don't konw why i should even try bothering getting help here Jul 25 16:36:51 sir; your "error reports" are full of assumptions and things you think are wrong. It's real hard to help someone who does that. Jul 25 16:37:02 or who doesn't want to follow the rules. Jul 25 16:37:06 then tell me what assumptions are wrong Jul 25 16:37:08 but you know best. Jul 25 16:37:22 i try to follow the directions, it doesn't work, i played around a little Jul 25 16:37:47 now i am asking, what is supposed to happen and the most you can do is complain that i talk to much Jul 25 16:37:51 At this point, I can't be arsed. you're obviously argumentative. I have better things to do. perhaps someone else has mre patience. Jul 25 16:38:06 yes, you talk _too_ much. Jul 25 16:38:06 perhaps Jul 25 16:39:59 i guess my point was if you lay it all out in a pastebin and give the url , and say , this is what i did here is what i get and thats not whart the wiki says i should get, what could be wrong? but i just saw spam in the channl Jul 25 16:41:15 TAsn: yes Jul 25 16:41:27 cool :))) Jul 25 16:57:06 today is the 25th of july, if openmoko don't want me to drain their bandwith with all the "refresh page" i do, they should start selling it asap~! :) Jul 25 17:00:49 ? Jul 25 17:00:51 oh Jul 25 17:01:15 TAsn: i ordered one Jul 25 17:04:51 richiefrich, how and when? Jul 25 17:05:08 from their site lastnight Jul 25 17:05:13 850? Jul 25 17:05:18 err 2 nights ago Jul 25 17:05:22 850? Jul 25 17:05:25 yeah Jul 25 17:05:37 doesnt matter that does 1900 too Jul 25 17:05:39 there were 850's in the last couple of days Jul 25 17:05:46 i wanna buy a 900 Jul 25 17:05:52 why Jul 25 17:05:54 want eu support in the countryside Jul 25 17:06:00 gtg eat, cya :) Jul 25 17:06:01 do you use 900? Jul 25 17:06:04 yeah. Jul 25 17:06:07 ahh Jul 25 17:06:09 :) Jul 25 17:06:10 cya. Jul 25 17:06:12 i use 1900 Jul 25 17:06:15 cya Jul 25 17:20:52 can I use the SIM from a new iPhone in the Freerunner? Jul 25 17:21:26 good question. perhaps. Jul 25 17:21:49 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rb8ac3d795c52 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: up efl date to get ecore build fixes. Jul 25 17:21:50 wheres thaat sim list anyways Jul 25 17:23:51 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r30f8bc79702a 10/packages/efl1/ecore_cvs.bb: and actually use right option. Jul 25 17:38:35 somehow my router sometimes does weird things Jul 25 17:38:43 maybe it's time to flash it again Jul 25 17:39:00 it's not giving me a lease, it's dropping my ping packets Jul 25 17:57:40 Fossi: are you connected via wireless? Jul 25 18:00:51 I saw the website said a new shipment of the freerunner is coming in today. Does anyone know if it did? Jul 25 18:03:58 seems at least some of the new iPhones come with a 71234O rev 4022 card that will work with Freerunner (I just checked mine) Jul 25 18:04:02 anybody an idea how i download maps for diversity? Jul 25 18:04:03 ZimCS Jul 25 18:04:08 which continent? Jul 25 18:04:22 i know there's one coming into the UK on the 29th Jul 25 18:04:29 and they're being shipped out of china now Jul 25 18:04:31 cebbert: no Jul 25 18:04:37 so i would guess others will be similar Jul 25 18:04:46 cebbert: the sim in an iphone is just to regiser it Jul 25 18:04:53 cebbert: it doesnt hold numbers Jul 25 18:06:19 and why would you want too. makes no sence to me Jul 25 18:06:54 richiefrich: so I can hack on the Freerunner Jul 25 18:07:21 so you have a iphone and a freerunner? Jul 25 18:07:34 I may soon :) Jul 25 18:07:37 heh Jul 25 18:07:42 joejarvis: i wish i was Jul 25 18:07:42 iphones are crap Jul 25 18:08:42 "Disconnect Reason is 5" - yes i love you too Jul 25 18:08:51 iphone is like Fedora. Looks sexy and easy on the outside, but ends up costing you money/effort. Jul 25 18:09:01 anyknow knows how to get exposure running? i searched the wiki, mailinglists and google to no avail Jul 25 18:09:15 dammit, is it Friday yet? Jul 25 18:09:19 what is exposure? Jul 25 18:09:28 qtopia comedy Jul 25 18:09:34 i've heard about it in the community list, but haven't found what it is yet Jul 25 18:09:50 a program in the ASU, supposed to let you power up and down gsm, gps, wifi never been able to run it Jul 25 18:10:00 ah Jul 25 18:10:07 (yeah i know, the asu, but i want to try everything) Jul 25 18:11:05 Wow...found this little gem (see below) in a different thread about the Jul 25 18:11:05 > ASU keyboard. Once I switched to the new opkg feeds, exposure works Jul 25 18:11:05 > just fine. Jul 25 18:11:13 from one of the posts Jul 25 18:11:22 ajbrun: URL of this post? Jul 25 18:11:29 community list Jul 25 18:11:30 indeed, i also switched to the new opkg feeds Jul 25 18:11:34 not sure how to reference it Jul 25 18:11:34 but exposure still doesn't work Jul 25 18:11:40 24/07/2008 19:00 Jul 25 18:11:42 on the archives. Jul 25 18:11:44 * Chocky will find it Jul 25 18:11:45 Re: What is Exposure? Jul 25 18:11:46 ah Jul 25 18:11:52 i forgot Jul 25 18:11:56 but that's the title for you Jul 25 18:12:03 don't know if it'll help Jul 25 18:12:13 hu, Jul 24, 2008 at 5:20 PM is the first mail Jul 25 18:12:20 hm, people have _not_ clue about quoting and email Jul 25 18:12:25 mailing list = toilet Jul 25 18:12:54 Hello. Jul 25 18:13:18 <|Marco|> safiiru: hey Jul 25 18:13:38 Chocky: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/023521.html Jul 25 18:13:39 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/023535.html Jul 25 18:13:42 Chocky: Chocky> dammit, is it Friday yet? it has been friday Jul 25 18:13:49 richiefrich: fnar. Jul 25 18:13:53 ? Jul 25 18:13:56 ;-) Jul 25 18:13:59 fnar? Jul 25 18:14:07 just a nothing comment. Jul 25 18:14:12 like "moo" or "wibble" Jul 25 18:14:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FNAR Jul 25 18:14:24 o0 Jul 25 18:14:31 :P Jul 25 18:14:55 North America Jul 25 18:15:10 random comment Jul 25 18:15:17 haha sorry i was answering from before Jul 25 18:15:28 got caught up configuring something Jul 25 18:15:40 I want UPS to come today! Jul 25 18:16:05 how much did you pay for shipping richiefrich? Jul 25 18:16:13 2nd day air Jul 25 18:16:16 UPS made me pay an extra $50 extortion fee when my neo came :) Jul 25 18:16:20 so i should get it today Jul 25 18:16:34 safiiru: Canadian! Jul 25 18:16:35 on the mailinglists i heard someone had to pay + dollar if i remember correctly Jul 25 18:16:37 Yah! Jul 25 18:16:43 they didnt send me a tracking number! Jul 25 18:16:46 i am sad Jul 25 18:17:00 ok Jul 25 18:17:05 * Chocky tries updated ASU feeds Jul 25 18:17:33 choky, please tell me if exposure works after the update Jul 25 18:17:43 lotsastuff. this better be good, cos ASU from default feeds is grim. Jul 25 18:17:47 yessir. Jul 25 18:17:48 (there is btw also a edj file to get the "querty" button back) Jul 25 18:17:52 richiefrich that probably means it hasn't shipped yet Jul 25 18:17:59 ah yes, I see in that post. Jul 25 18:18:00 Guys, I'm having a lot of trouble getting my USB connected FR to be able itself to reach the internet (through my desktop system). Jul 25 18:18:03 Zorkman: cool Jul 25 18:18:07 trix: oh they send tracking numbers? Jul 25 18:18:14 This would be probably because I don't know what the iptables etc means. Jul 25 18:18:22 dino: did you follow the wiki? Jul 25 18:18:23 as soon as it ships, yeah, it's a bit automatic Jul 25 18:18:28 Zorkman: I did, twice Jul 25 18:18:32 trix: oh Jul 25 18:18:32 With reboots and yada Jul 25 18:18:38 dino-: and what _exactly_ went wrong with the wiki instructions? Jul 25 18:18:47 don't reboot. Jul 25 18:18:49 it won't help anything Jul 25 18:18:51 richiefrich, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F Jul 25 18:19:06 trix: ty Jul 25 18:19:07 i have a command that i use for my iptables, but i think that is the most insecure way to use it, and chocky will most probably choke if he sees it :) Jul 25 18:19:08 Chocky: I'm not sure what went wrong. My Debian box took the iptables commands seemingly ok Jul 25 18:19:23 well, what "doesn't work"? Jul 25 18:19:27 looks like people stopped adding to that list but you can get an idea of the processing speed Jul 25 18:19:28 Zork ;-) Jul 25 18:19:34 No internet connectivity on the FR. Jul 25 18:19:36 Can't ping anything. Jul 25 18:19:43 can you ping your desktop? Jul 25 18:19:44 Does usb0 have an ip? Jul 25 18:19:57 yes Jul 25 18:20:05 Yes, can ping desktop that's connected to it. Jul 25 18:20:06 well then, that is not "can't ping anything" Jul 25 18:20:15 now you understand the importance of exactness :o Jul 25 18:20:19 can you resolve anything? Jul 25 18:20:27 host www.google.com Jul 25 18:20:28 (he can probably also ping 127.0.0.1 :)) Jul 25 18:20:33 Yes, usb0 on FR has an IP (192.168.0.202) Jul 25 18:20:51 No, can't resolve anything. Jul 25 18:21:04 you need to update /etc/resolv.conf to point to a DNS server Jul 25 18:21:11 which you desktop probably isn't running Jul 25 18:21:34 dino- Set resolv.conf nameserver to the same as your desktop machine. Jul 25 18:21:35 Is that 4.2.2.2 real? Jul 25 18:21:43 yes, but don't use it. Jul 25 18:21:47 yeh it helps if you have a resolv.conf Jul 25 18:21:49 I tried that and also my router at home, the gateway that the other systems use. Jul 25 18:21:50 use whatever your desktop's /etc/resolv.conf is Jul 25 18:22:08 Yes, that does not work either. Jul 25 18:22:18 please don't use the phrase "does not work" Jul 25 18:22:18 The same thing that's in the desktop system's /etc/resolv.conf Jul 25 18:22:19 did they delete that on the wiki? when i first set it up, there was an instruction on the wiki to do that Jul 25 18:22:22 Hia! Quick question: does anyone know if future versions of Neo will have HSDPA? (if so, how future version?) At the moment it seems that 3G is totally ignored, not even planned to happen. Jul 25 18:22:25 can you _ping_ the DNS server? Jul 25 18:22:38 roosmaa: maybe. Jul 25 18:22:54 roosmaa: GTA03 will not be 3g, GTA04 *maybe* ASAIK Jul 25 18:22:57 Cannot ping that IP, no. Jul 25 18:22:59 from the FR Jul 25 18:23:04 then DNS won't work :o Jul 25 18:23:15 What do you get if you type route Jul 25 18:23:15 what is your eth0 (or whatever it is) subnet? Jul 25 18:23:24 and IPs Jul 25 18:23:37 On the FR? Jul 25 18:23:40 on your desktop Jul 25 18:23:48 Zorkman, cheers.. is there any drafts or brainstorming ideas regarding GTA04 online somewhere, or is it strictly openmoko internal at the moment? Jul 25 18:24:09 192.168.0.57 255.255.255.0 Jul 25 18:24:21 right, your subnets overlap Jul 25 18:24:25 roosmaa: there was some talk about in on the community lists, and also on the hardware and devel lists i think a while ago Jul 25 18:24:30 roosmaa, I think it's pretty vague internally too... Jul 25 18:24:30 you'll need to change one of them. Jul 25 18:24:53 roosmaa: also about finding an alternative for the glamo and about screen resolutions vga/qvga Jul 25 18:24:55 it can be made to work with the same subnets, but you need funky routing Jul 25 18:25:01 Ok, this sounds like user doesn't understand networking. I should learn more about this. Jul 25 18:25:19 easy fix is to change FR/usb0 to be 192.168.1.x Jul 25 18:25:27 roosmaa, suitable umts chipsets are also hard to find, hope one'll present itself by the gta04 timeframe... Jul 25 18:25:28 and update the iptables rule accordingly Jul 25 18:25:45 Chocky: Change both the .202 and .200 to that subnet? Jul 25 18:25:46 Zorkman, nabble search didn't return much ... About glamo I read, pretty bad situation ( I didn't know before that the chips used are actually that old! :/ ) Jul 25 18:25:50 dino-: it's kind of subtle. I _specialize_ in this, and it gets tricky Jul 25 18:25:54 yessir Jul 25 18:26:09 Chocky: Ok. Thank you. And apologies for the network-idiot stuff. Jul 25 18:26:15 mjr, ok, I'll take that into account.. hopefully by GTA04 the software will be stable :) Jul 25 18:26:27 dino-: the wiki is hopelessly confused ;-) Jul 25 18:26:30 dino-: don't worry, he's used to reading my questions :) Jul 25 18:26:45 I know it'll clear up quickly, the wiki. Needs people interested, which seems to be happening. Jul 25 18:26:46 * Chocky just doesn't answer them :o Jul 25 18:27:26 minor conflicts during ASU upgrade. had to remove efreet Jul 25 18:28:30 (the new opkg feeds have given me a diversity-nav and a splinter, its both the same :)) Jul 25 18:28:44 och. Jul 25 18:28:59 i'm still trying to get tango-gps to work with the asu Jul 25 18:29:26 i've contributed my first streets to OSM today but tango gps only works with 2007.2 (well, at least i couldn't get it to work :)) Jul 25 18:30:42 upgrade complete. exposure still seems to do nothing Jul 25 18:32:01 firefox and minino. excessive :o Jul 25 18:32:05 minimo Jul 25 18:32:32 i like minimo, it looks promissing (only recently installed) Jul 25 18:32:55 agpsui doesn't seem to work anymore with latest ASU update Jul 25 18:34:09 although with the qtopia keyboard i can't see the url i'm typing :) Jul 25 18:34:45 * Chocky waits for ages for opkg Jul 25 18:34:54 sounds like asu still has a ways to go Jul 25 18:35:01 no secret there Jul 25 18:35:07 * araujo wonders if there already are NF in stock Jul 25 18:35:14 better than 2077.2 Jul 25 18:35:21 that'll never go anyway Jul 25 18:35:26 2007.2 Jul 25 18:35:31 you think so? i like 2007.2 Jul 25 18:35:38 * SpeedEvil likes it too. Jul 25 18:35:39 i liked it Jul 25 18:35:43 Fossi: not IMO ;-) Jul 25 18:35:46 until it broke on me ;D Jul 25 18:36:06 reboot, reinstall. it's the Windows way Jul 25 18:36:10 and now the stupid wlan won't work anymore and all is crap Jul 25 18:36:16 aw Jul 25 18:36:27 and now i go do something else ;) Jul 25 18:36:49 Chocky: how is ASU updated? Jul 25 18:36:59 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/023535.html Jul 25 18:37:47 Chocky: which ASU feeds? Jul 25 18:38:11 Zorkman: you wanna check out fennec. Jul 25 18:38:13 just like it says Jul 25 18:38:31 Chocky: ok, super Jul 25 18:39:07 i liked 2007.2 until i updated to ASU yesterday Jul 25 18:39:11 man its alot more smooth Jul 25 18:39:17 "a lot", thanks Jul 25 18:39:28 dougt: i will check it out now, I have absolutey no idea what it is :) Jul 25 18:39:40 heard the name once though i think Jul 25 18:39:57 aha, browser :) Jul 25 18:40:35 the call quality seems better, and the sound system comes back out of suspend. The only thing bugging me is that exposure stopped working when i opkg upgraded this morning Jul 25 18:40:59 Pyrasi: i've never even seen it working :) Jul 25 18:41:08 anyone know what these sdio/ar6k error messages mean in my log when booting? http://pastebin.com/m35fda0a0 Jul 25 18:42:05 I think someone in the mailing list was saying if they pointed their repo back to the 2007.2 one and force upgraded the kernel it worked Jul 25 18:42:08 but im not sure Jul 25 18:42:17 im going to try it when i go back home Jul 25 18:42:23 has anyone built fso recently Jul 25 18:42:26 no, instant messenger doesn't help ;-) Jul 25 18:42:30 awesomo4k: not me Jul 25 18:42:38 just wondering how long it takes Jul 25 18:42:44 takes? Jul 25 18:42:52 awesomo4k: i figured id wait until milestone 2 to rebuild it Jul 25 18:43:12 is stable hybrid going well ? Jul 25 18:43:42 i doubt it has gotten anywhere....looked like just future plans. I'm sure it will move along more when FSO gets further Jul 25 18:43:45 awesomo4k: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/milestone/SHR Jul 25 18:44:03 it's been a while since i've heard something about it... Jul 25 18:44:05 hrm. guess not. Jul 25 18:44:05 they kinda have to wait until FSO is implemented to a larger extent to implement it Jul 25 18:44:29 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 25 18:45:42 Choky: can you do an opkg info kernel? Jul 25 18:45:51 right now, no. Jul 25 18:46:02 i've read a mail on the mailinglist that due to the opkg update someone got a 1973 kernel Jul 25 18:46:04 i've got one :) Jul 25 18:46:14 nice Jul 25 18:46:33 maybe that can cause exposure reluctancy to launch Jul 25 18:46:43 and GPS to break Jul 25 18:47:00 i'll reflash and check it out Jul 25 18:48:52 hmm...yea i got a 1973 kernel too Jul 25 18:49:09 I have a distinct feeling that USB is bust on my desktop in 2.6.26 Jul 25 18:49:19 hey...does anyone know, can you do a "tab" on the ASU keyboard? Jul 25 18:49:23 actually, not using that. never mind :p Jul 25 18:49:45 Pyrasi: by installing the full querty keyboard i think Jul 25 18:50:05 full qwerty keyboard?.....does it get rid of the current one? Jul 25 18:50:13 is it feasible to write gui apps in python on openmoko... Jul 25 18:50:18 or is it just another one of the ones you can scroll through? Jul 25 18:50:21 awesomo4k, yes Jul 25 18:50:36 pyqt or pygtk :p Jul 25 18:50:40 mjr .. they run and respond fast enough to be useful ? Jul 25 18:50:42 no, it's what the name says: a full querty keyboard Jul 25 18:50:47 hm Jul 25 18:50:48 i'll look up a link Jul 25 18:50:52 thanks Jul 25 18:51:03 kelvie_work, sure Jul 25 18:51:03 does it replace the ASU one? Jul 25 18:51:18 awesomo4k, rather Jul 25 18:51:21 Pyrasi: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards#Matchbox_keyboard Jul 25 18:51:34 Pyrasi: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021296.html Jul 25 18:51:35 I've gotten PyQt to build with bitbake -- have yet to test it though as I don't have a FR yet :P Jul 25 18:51:50 but it requires Qt/X11 Jul 25 18:51:53 responsiveness depends more on what other stuff than the gui you're doing Jul 25 18:52:18 be careful with that new keyboard install.. it didn't work for me out of the box... complained about freetype library Jul 25 18:52:22 I did try out a quick and dirty pygtk remote control app earlier on the gta01 Jul 25 18:53:15 hmm....i mean i had the matchbox one working on 2007.2....but im just wondering on ASU does it replace the current one? because i like the current ASU one...just want to be able to tab while in the terminal Jul 25 18:58:16 is there a touchscreen driver that doesn't require X11 ? Jul 25 18:58:53 input drivers don't require X11 Jul 25 18:58:58 qtopia uses something...and it doesnt have X11 Jul 25 18:59:13 When I try to do the sequence of commands again starting with ifconfig usb0 ... with the .1. subnet, and then do the ping -I usb0, I'm getting Destination Host Unreachable. Jul 25 18:59:19 you can read directly from /dev/input/* and you get the data in a pretty usable format Jul 25 18:59:26 or you can link against tslib like X11 does Jul 25 18:59:27 Have I done something that needs to be undone on my desktop from earlier? Jul 25 18:59:47 if the -I is required, then something is wrong. it's best that you don't use it Jul 25 18:59:56 whats tslib Jul 25 19:00:05 hm, just following the wiki with the -I Jul 25 19:00:18 awesomo4k: google it Jul 25 19:00:19 * Chocky casts doubt on the wiki Jul 25 19:00:20 hi Jul 25 19:00:24 what did you change your FR IP to? Jul 25 19:00:24 Ah, that works Jul 25 19:00:28 * awesomo4k googles tslib Jul 25 19:00:40 Chocky: 192.168.1.200 and .202 Jul 25 19:00:47 and does it work now? Jul 25 19:00:48 perfect. Jul 25 19:00:52 tanks. Jul 25 19:00:55 It does without the -I usb0 Jul 25 19:00:58 the ping Jul 25 19:01:07 * awesomo4k envisions a non-x11 ncurses-based phone. Jul 25 19:01:10 forget -I/ping. does the networking work Jul 25 19:01:20 So then also the /sbin/route add -host .. not needed? Jul 25 19:01:23 Chocky: yes Jul 25 19:01:25 no, that's BS too. Jul 25 19:01:32 yay Jul 25 19:01:47 this would be part of the aforementioned 'funky routing' Jul 25 19:01:56 no, just someone who is confused. Jul 25 19:02:00 ok Jul 25 19:02:49 hm, I think my ASU setup might be hosed. possibly due to that kernel Jul 25 19:04:08 choky: i flashed the right kernel and it still wont start Jul 25 19:04:19 "wont (sic) start?" Jul 25 19:04:26 * Chocky sighs at grammar here :-( Jul 25 19:06:37 * Zorkman pays not enough attention to his grammar when typing on the internet, he will try to be a good boy from now on :) Jul 25 19:06:51 (but will fale ^^) Jul 25 19:06:56 *fail :) lol Jul 25 19:07:00 mm, I was confused I think. I was pinging 192.168.1.200, not the 192.168.1.202 that I then need to ssh to. Jul 25 19:07:10 That ..202 is not reachable Jul 25 19:07:12 dino-: good lad, I've done that too. Jul 25 19:07:29 how did you change the IP on your FR? Jul 25 19:08:00 Chocky: The only thing I did on there was (when it was on the .0. subnet) echo something to /etc/resolv.conf Jul 25 19:08:03 I believe Jul 25 19:08:16 yes, but that doesn't change the FR IP Jul 25 19:08:24 you need to edit /etc/network/interfaces Jul 25 19:08:46 you said you did that :p Jul 25 19:09:31 I was in there but also doing the echo ... resolv.conf for usb0 Jul 25 19:09:40 does anybody know a gps tracking program that works on the ASU for OSM? Jul 25 19:09:47 please, let's answer my actual questions. Jul 25 19:09:48 I don't think I set a static IP there myself, but I can try to peek at it on the device's shell. Jul 25 19:09:53 otherwse we're in circles Jul 25 19:10:53 if you haven't change the FR's IP, then this is contrary to your earlier claim that you change the subnets. Jul 25 19:10:59 you see how much extra effort you make :-( Jul 25 19:11:26 Chocky: I guess I don't understand what you're asking then. I've only changed things on the desktop system with the exception of /etc/resolv.conf on the FR. Jul 25 19:11:32 I Know@ Jul 25 19:11:39 *facepalm* Jul 25 19:11:49 please don't repeat what you did over and ove.r Jul 25 19:11:55 we can't get anywhere unless you follow my instructions. Jul 25 19:12:13 How would one change the IP on the FR? Jul 25 19:12:18 I already told you twice. Jul 25 19:12:32 * Chocky abandons you to the hounds of hell, and goes back to work :-( Jul 25 19:12:32 And I don't understand what you're saying. Jul 25 19:12:33 edit /etc/network/interfaces (i think) Jul 25 19:12:38 On the FR? Jul 25 19:13:06 if you want to change the ip of the freerunner: yeah Jul 25 19:13:23 dino-: yes, on the FR Jul 25 19:13:33 No need to be rude with people who don't understand something that's being said. Jul 25 19:13:43 kist like you did something like ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 on the host Jul 25 19:13:58 dino-: you miss the point. you keep ignoring what I said. Jul 25 19:14:02 Ok, I did not change any static IP in the FR's /etc/network/interfaces. Jul 25 19:14:13 dino-: well, that's wher eyou cahnge the FR's IP Jul 25 19:14:13 and keep telling me things I know. Jul 25 19:14:23 dino-: so change that and you can change the FR's IP Jul 25 19:14:25 it's simply not worth my effort. Jul 25 19:14:31 that makes that the freerunner "sees" your host as 192.168.0.200, instead you now need to edit the way your host sees your freerunner Jul 25 19:15:02 Ok, so there is a number in there when it's stock? Is that the .0.200 ? Jul 25 19:15:25 the freerunner is standard 192.168.0.202 Jul 25 19:15:42 * Chocky challenges someone to say something original Jul 25 19:15:46 Chocky: I did not mean to ignore you, I don't think I understand some of what you were saying. Jul 25 19:15:53 ask, don't assume. Jul 25 19:16:33 D! Jul 25 19:16:33 Hail! Jul 25 19:16:40 :) Jul 25 19:16:41 llo Davelab Jul 25 19:16:42 * Chocky bows to allmighty. Jul 25 19:16:46 :D Jul 25 19:16:47 er, almighty. Jul 25 19:16:58 * awesomo4k builds fso Jul 25 19:17:13 So where can I fetch the appropriate kernel-headers for the phone? kernel.org or something? Jul 25 19:17:17 dino: i thought that choky said that this gets you in trouble because they are on the same subnet, but really i'm more noob then you Jul 25 19:17:28 Since I'm trying to change the subnet of the device on my desktop, does that mean the /etc/network/interfces on the FR needs to be changed to match? Jul 25 19:17:32 i will only get you more confused :) Jul 25 19:17:36 Dave: news. wiki is full of confusing information. Jul 25 19:17:45 That's not NEW news :p Jul 25 19:18:26 changing the subnet doesn't really make it any easier to network imo Jul 25 19:18:38 trix: and pray tell, why? Jul 25 19:18:52 dino, check the wiki and mailing list there is already a ton of information on how to get usb networking going Jul 25 19:19:02 much of it contradictory and confusing. Jul 25 19:19:05 some of it wrong. Jul 25 19:19:09 subnet subnet subnet Jul 25 19:19:24 * Wonka hits dino- with http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Jul 25 19:19:25 that may be true but there is still valuable information there Jul 25 19:19:34 having different subnets is at least, in priciple, idiot/noob proof. Jul 25 19:19:39 and it is how i was able to get usb networking going Jul 25 19:19:42 Hello, I'm trying to find out where I can download a recent OM2007.2 image for the FR (kernel+rootfs). Jul 25 19:20:01 buildhost.openmoko.org Jul 25 19:20:03 trix: me too, but had problems with iptables, someone on irc here also couldn't figure it out Jul 25 19:20:30 yeah the ubuntu instructions for auto config messed up my regular internet connection for some reason Jul 25 19:20:39 Wonka: Thanks. I've been reading that. But I can't get internet connectivity from the FR because it's on the same subnet at the rest of my lan Jul 25 19:20:39 McKael: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080725/?C=M;O=D Jul 25 19:20:45 zorkman, i had to do a lot of finnagling with iptables myself Jul 25 19:20:56 dino-: and you've been told about 3 times how to fix it already. Jul 25 19:21:03 dino-: then edit /etc/network/interfaces and change the .0. to .1. ? Jul 25 19:21:04 warum hat der media player2 keine play icons ? Jul 25 19:21:06 huzzah! Jul 25 19:21:18 So we finally have a qtopia package feed now? :p Jul 25 19:21:31 Dave: yes, but of dubious quality. hrmph. Jul 25 19:21:36 ups Jul 25 19:21:37 I like how openmoko isn't in the topic at all now. Jul 25 19:21:45 DaveLab: thanks. No rootfs though, do I have to check the previous days? Jul 25 19:22:06 I'd like to have socat or at least netcat packages... Jul 25 19:22:07 McKael: if you just opkg update || opkg upgrade, it should update your kernel and everything else. Jul 25 19:22:07 Dave: allegedly, it might install a neo1973 kernel Jul 25 19:22:14 Chocky, hot. Jul 25 19:22:19 or perhaps old and crusty :D Jul 25 19:22:24 we'll see >:) Jul 25 19:22:29 DaveLab: no, I'm looking for a rootfs Jul 25 19:22:30 McKael: only u-boot doesn't get updated with opkg Jul 25 19:22:42 McKael: a new rootfs image, for the gtk image? Jul 25 19:22:52 DaveLab: yes Jul 25 19:22:55 DaveLab: it did on my freerunner (when using the right asu feeds) Jul 25 19:23:05 DaveLab: I'm running Qtopia currently Jul 25 19:23:11 McKael: OH Jul 25 19:23:19 so you're flashing OUT of qtopia then? Jul 25 19:23:24 or you want to update qtopia"? Jul 25 19:23:26 DaveLab: yep Jul 25 19:23:30 out Jul 25 19:23:32 you want out Jul 25 19:23:32 heh Jul 25 19:23:34 alright :) Jul 25 19:23:37 ;) Jul 25 19:24:10 here then: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Jul 25 19:24:17 dos anyone know if one can get tango-gps to run on the asu? (withouth building or programming it yourself:)) if not i can stop waisting my time... Jul 25 19:24:18 well opkg upgrade give you the daily kernel? Jul 25 19:24:29 sirkha: yes Jul 25 19:24:36 otherwise pick which one you want from: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/?C=M;O=D Jul 25 19:24:41 kernel and rootfs gets updated Jul 25 19:24:48 and will someone set me up teh kernel headers already? :p Jul 25 19:25:03 DaveLab: ok thanks Jul 25 19:25:43 zig left! Jul 25 19:25:49 for great justice Jul 25 19:25:49 do the newest kernels have the patches that make the card reader clock not always turn on, and therefore allow gps to get a fix? Jul 25 19:25:50 -_- Jul 25 19:26:12 (or am i really misunderstanding the wiki on that) Jul 25 19:26:19 choky: this might be a stupid remark, but could the faulty kernel update to that of a 1973 be casued by the file "neo1973-feed.conf" that is in the opkg map that was posted in the mail? Jul 25 19:26:29 sirkha: yes Jul 25 19:26:45 suppose Jul 25 19:26:46 Zorkman: yes i am misunderstanding, or yes it makes gps works? Jul 25 19:26:57 yes it makes the gps work, sorry if i was not clear Jul 25 19:27:04 no problem Jul 25 19:27:21 so i guess nobody knows about tango-gps on the asu Jul 25 19:27:36 I put the .0. stuff back long enough to get back to be able to ssh to the device. Now I'm editing /etc/network/interfaces, should I change everything that's .0. to .1. ? Jul 25 19:27:39 Zorkman: I know you're trying to be helpful, but sometimes it's better to exercise some restraint if you don't have an exact answer, instead of commenting on every question. Jul 25 19:27:52 would it be difficult to get a video out port on the moko Jul 25 19:27:57 Zorkman: thanks Jul 25 19:28:10 Anyone? Jul 25 19:28:34 i understand Jul 25 19:29:20 -_- Jul 25 19:29:30 * DaveLab pokes Ainulindale Jul 25 19:30:27 http://youtube.com/watch?v=RRNdXqt7maQ Jul 25 19:32:18 DaveLab: yep ? Jul 25 19:32:36 Hi :D Jul 25 19:32:48 What did you want ? Jul 25 19:32:51 btw, any idea how to get rid of this stupid "boots" splash screen? Jul 25 19:32:57 Ainulindale: any chance you know where I could acquire the 2.6.24-arm kernel headers? Jul 25 19:33:00 i'd rather see stuff scrolling by Jul 25 19:33:05 for the phone :p Jul 25 19:33:16 On the repository perhaps ? Jul 25 19:33:19 But that's just a wild guess Jul 25 19:33:19 they don't seem to be available anywhere convenient Jul 25 19:33:22 Or sarcasm Jul 25 19:33:24 They are not there. Jul 25 19:33:37 Check for the bitbake recipes then Jul 25 19:33:51 Where's that at? :P Jul 25 19:34:01 On the repository Jul 25 19:34:04 wiki? Jul 25 19:34:11 Oh Jul 25 19:34:45 I know I have linux-libcd-headers on my packages Jul 25 19:34:48 -d Jul 25 19:36:14 So do I Jul 25 19:36:23 but that doesn't seem to be what I need :| Jul 25 19:36:28 o.O Jul 25 19:36:34 I'm not sure if I should just change the address field in /etc/network/interfaces or other things. I don't want to get it to some state where I can't ssh back to it. Jul 25 19:36:42 What is that ? Jul 25 19:36:45 erm Jul 25 19:36:48 Why is that ? Jul 25 19:37:18 Do I have to link the src tree dir or something like that? :p Jul 25 19:37:31 I don't know. Jul 25 19:37:33 dino-: just change that one number. Jul 25 19:37:34 That would be so typical -__ Jul 25 19:37:34 dino-: a reflash of the default image would be less time and hassle than all the effort you've made to date. Jul 25 19:37:37 make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.24/build: No such file or directory. Stop. Jul 25 19:37:58 If you told me what you want to do I could help you Jul 25 19:38:07 I was going to try and write a script to auto connect to my bluetooth keyboard...does anyone know what can be run to check the current state of the bluetooth radio? (on/off)? Jul 25 19:38:09 Hooray! Jul 25 19:38:20 Just knowing you want the headers doesn't help me very much :-) Jul 25 19:38:22 I am trying to compile drivers on the phone Jul 25 19:38:25 :p Jul 25 19:38:27 Why on the phone ? Jul 25 19:38:35 because I want to use the devices on the phone Jul 25 19:38:38 DaveLab: you could install a Debian package with the kernel headers. Jul 25 19:38:41 and then I don't have to deal with cross-compilation Jul 25 19:38:42 And why don't you cross compile it ? Jul 25 19:38:47 Wonka: Thank you. Jul 25 19:38:50 build env doesn't work always Jul 25 19:38:55 although cross compiling the kernel is actually dead easy Jul 25 19:38:56 and I don't care about the time factor Jul 25 19:39:04 DaveLab: Doesn't work "always" ? Jul 25 19:39:09 yeah Jul 25 19:39:13 assuming you have a cross compiler ,which you do. Jul 25 19:39:17 btw, i am so much happier since i installed matchbox-keyboard... Jul 25 19:39:18 I've already tried cc some shit and it broke Jul 25 19:39:21 * Chocky wonders why Dave is pursuing this. Jul 25 19:39:22 You mean there's an elf twiddling with the random factor in your cross compilation toolchain ? :-) Jul 25 19:39:26 Dave: ah, "doesn't work" Jul 25 19:39:27 because I'd otherwise have to rewrite their makefile Jul 25 19:39:35 a keyboard one can actually use Jul 25 19:39:38 and I don't want to waste time fiddling and failing Jul 25 19:39:45 Fuck you, Chocky ;) Jul 25 19:39:45 DaveLab: It's just a matter of configure and things Jul 25 19:39:46 you're already doing that. Jul 25 19:39:50 I love you Dave Jul 25 19:39:51 using bitbake there's a devshell Jul 25 19:39:56 Ainulindale: there is no configure :) Jul 25 19:39:56 Which will give you all you need Jul 25 19:40:08 Meaning paths, cc configured as it should, etc Jul 25 19:40:09 and don't blame me for that! Jul 25 19:40:18 Dave: almost all driver module Makefiles can easily use a cross compiler Jul 25 19:40:20 Libraries paths, includes... Jul 25 19:40:21 Fine, compile this stuff for me then? :D Jul 25 19:40:28 if you're talking about something outside the kernel source Jul 25 19:40:39 Chocky: yeah Jul 25 19:40:41 DaveLab: Why don't you use a proper toolchain or bitbake ? Jul 25 19:40:43 if it's part of the kernel source, then it's dead easy Jul 25 19:40:43 It's really quite easy Jul 25 19:40:47 so what is the problem? :p Jul 25 19:40:54 because I"ve had shitty experience with the toolchain Jul 25 19:40:57 or rather spotty luck :) Jul 25 19:41:04 so tell us what "doesn't work"? :p Jul 25 19:41:06 DaveLab: And I had it work perfectly Jul 25 19:41:15 Hooray for you :p Jul 25 19:41:20 I'll fiddle with it later then. Jul 25 19:41:35 DaveLab: Seriously, stop being ironic, it doesn't suit the discussion Jul 25 19:41:41 :[ Jul 25 19:41:45 I can ensure you the toolchain and/or bitbake works Jul 25 19:41:54 And I can ensure you too that it will be easier Jul 25 19:41:56 AND faster Jul 25 19:41:57 Yeah, I know. Jul 25 19:42:01 well duh Jul 25 19:42:02 :p Jul 25 19:42:03 * Chocky suggests the word "assure" instead :o Jul 25 19:42:06 right Jul 25 19:42:08 I'm even disposed to help you if necessary Jul 25 19:42:13 Chocky, I had to abstain there ;) Jul 25 19:42:15 Chocky: I'm french, so please bear my engrish Jul 25 19:42:19 FRENCH! Jul 25 19:42:22 :o Jul 25 19:42:23 I am, I'm just making a suggestion. Jul 25 19:42:47 Chocky: you're bearing my engrish ? Man, me going beat you long time Jul 25 19:42:57 five dollah? Jul 25 19:43:00 ça và? Jul 25 19:43:01 :-) Jul 25 19:43:07 There's no accent. Jul 25 19:43:11 But I'm doing great. Jul 25 19:43:12 I MADE ONE Jul 25 19:43:17 IT MAKES IT LOOK COOLER! Jul 25 19:43:19 Wooooh. Jul 25 19:43:23 :P Jul 25 19:43:25 A cookie for the pretty boy :-) Jul 25 19:43:25 hey, so i know i disturb your 'discussion' Jul 25 19:43:30 heehee Jul 25 19:43:38 but i'm not happy with the toolchain either Jul 25 19:43:50 * DaveLab hides Jul 25 19:43:52 Fossi: please enlighten Jul 25 19:44:01 DaveLab: do you have a working or non working dev environment set up yet ? Jul 25 19:44:08 could somebody who is, please point to a manual/howto or something? Jul 25 19:44:18 Ainulindale, it's weird, I setup the toolchain on two separate machines Jul 25 19:44:23 Fossi: heh, good complaint ;-) Jul 25 19:44:23 Fossi: I personnaly use bitbake Jul 25 19:44:30 on one it works fine, the other it doesn't work [well] Jul 25 19:44:33 Fossi: And I wrote a page on how to setup bitbake for FSO Jul 25 19:44:34 must be a config issue Jul 25 19:44:43 I know bitbake works fine Jul 25 19:44:51 i tried bitbake, but it said it couldn't find autotools.bb Jul 25 19:44:52 DaveLab: What does it do ? Jul 25 19:44:54 * Chocky doesn't speak bitmake Jul 25 19:44:57 Complains about CC ? Libs? Jul 25 19:44:57 Do I need to ifdown ifup on the FR? Jul 25 19:44:58 er, bitbake Jul 25 19:45:02 Though I may as well use the toolchain since I spent an inordinate amount of time setting it up, last month. Jul 25 19:45:02 then i tried what 'toolchain' said in the wiki Jul 25 19:45:11 Fossi: it's a path problem Jul 25 19:45:14 Ainulindale, the toolchain? :) Jul 25 19:45:15 and om-conf died in several ways on several projects Jul 25 19:45:19 then i gave up Jul 25 19:45:19 Fossi: you probably didn't set up this right Jul 25 19:45:21 It makes stuff :) Jul 25 19:45:27 dino-: probably want to reboot, since you're changing the interface you're connecting through Jul 25 19:45:29 * DaveLab giggles Jul 25 19:45:40 Fossi: If you could check the "FSO" page on the wiki I could step you through the potential errors Jul 25 19:46:09 Ainulindale: why is there a difference between fos/om2007.2 and asu there? Jul 25 19:46:11 Chocky: Ok, thank you. Jul 25 19:46:16 I'll have to try compiling these drivers later then :] Jul 25 19:46:18 *fso Jul 25 19:46:21 Fossi: It's the same Jul 25 19:46:29 I just explained it using OE repository Jul 25 19:46:41 But the steps are quite the same Jul 25 19:46:50 okay Jul 25 19:46:51 And mokomakefile should handle that for you by the way Jul 25 19:47:03 Did you try Mokomakefile ? Jul 25 19:47:12 ah, so i need to download the whole bunch of stuff? Jul 25 19:47:12 yep Jul 25 19:47:16 I've tried that :) Jul 25 19:47:22 even if i just want to crosscompile? Jul 25 19:47:24 Took some doing, but it worked Jul 25 19:47:24 mofomojomakefilefofo Jul 25 19:47:24 Fossi: not necessarily Jul 25 19:47:28 yep Jul 25 19:47:38 I'm thinking of making a shirt, to that effect, Chocky :) Jul 25 19:47:41 You could just bitbake gcc Jul 25 19:47:43 sweet Jul 25 19:47:47 And it would compile it Jul 25 19:47:52 Why is everybody so cranky here ? Jul 25 19:47:57 Is there a disease I don't know about ? Jul 25 19:48:04 it's just Dave. Jul 25 19:48:06 Ainulindale... Jul 25 19:48:09 I don't know :) Jul 25 19:48:19 It is weekend at my place... so :D Jul 25 19:48:25 I'm not cranky ;p Jul 25 19:48:26 i want to bitbake an external package i happen to have the files for (erlang) Jul 25 19:48:36 Fossi: So what you just have to do is Jul 25 19:48:38 oh wait, I am, someone took all my cookies :[ Jul 25 19:48:43 Either set up the toolchain (didn't do that myself) Jul 25 19:48:46 so is ASU going to be the official distro? Jul 25 19:48:46 and I want naptime. Jul 25 19:48:50 Or bitbake the right dependencies Jul 25 19:48:55 the guy tried this on his fic and checked them in in the bugtracker Jul 25 19:48:57 Then bitbake -b your file Jul 25 19:48:58 bitbake me some brownies! Jul 25 19:49:20 so if it complains about autotools.bb, i have to bitbake that? Jul 25 19:49:31 I'll bitbake your nuts if you don't stop being an ass instead of trying to make your install work, DaveLab :-) Jul 25 19:49:32 or is it trying to Jul 25 19:49:38 :O Jul 25 19:49:44 Wow. Jul 25 19:49:45 Ainulindale: lay it down Jul 25 19:49:56 Lay what down ? Jul 25 19:50:02 heehee Jul 25 19:50:02 some smackdown Jul 25 19:50:07 the law! Jul 25 19:50:23 haha oh god Jul 25 19:50:26 The Source Code? Jul 25 19:50:30 I must have broke my translated jokes bone. Jul 25 19:50:32 ;) Jul 25 19:50:47 Well, I have other stuff to do than procrastinating here Jul 25 19:50:54 :o Jul 25 19:50:57 So if everyone is willing to give a try at actually doing stuff Jul 25 19:51:00 procrastinating elsewhere? Jul 25 19:51:11 Ainulindale, will the Dialer be really cool? Jul 25 19:51:40 It will be a dialer. It won't make coffee. It will dial. Jul 25 19:51:48 Okay :] Jul 25 19:51:51 * Chocky wants it to dial coffee Jul 25 19:51:56 Well, that went real easy once the interfaces file was changed. :/ Jul 25 19:51:57 gah Jul 25 19:52:06 I probably should use screenshots for a background on my phone Jul 25 19:52:08 dino-: imagine that. :o Jul 25 19:52:17 it keeps confusing me, what app I'm actually in, if any. Jul 25 19:52:59 Thanks for the help, Ainulindale =) Jul 25 19:53:12 exit Jul 25 19:53:36 I didn't help. I'll happily help you when you'll be disposed to listen and actually try what I'm telling you :-) Jul 25 19:53:37 555-COFFEE Jul 25 19:56:40 Now, I still need to do the iptables commands on the desktop? Jul 25 19:56:44 yes Jul 25 19:57:31 Qtopia in the topic ? Jul 25 19:57:33 why ? Jul 25 19:57:48 Why are there the two addresses, .202 and .200 ? Jul 25 19:58:06 202 is the neo, 200 the host Jul 25 19:58:21 The 200 is on the desktop? It's the usb0? Jul 25 19:58:27 Yep Jul 25 19:58:30 ok Jul 25 19:59:49 umm whoops Jul 25 20:00:20 Man, still no ping from the FR. I wonder if the gateway in interface needs to point to that .1.200 instead of the .0.200 it still is. Jul 25 20:00:31 yes Jul 25 20:00:37 like what was said to you :o Jul 25 20:00:39 anyone have the old topic :) Jul 25 20:00:48 yeah please Jul 25 20:00:52 lpotter: hi Jul 25 20:00:56 but you're still being horribly unclear Jul 25 20:01:02 "ping frmo the FR" could mean anything. Jul 25 20:01:21 dino-: Please read the USB networking topic on the wiki Jul 25 20:01:29 I think you'll find all you need to get that running :-) Jul 25 20:01:35 malik1972: hi Jul 25 20:01:36 Ainulindale: no :-( Jul 25 20:01:42 What, no ? Jul 25 20:01:42 lpotter: there are some relevant bugs concerning suspend/resume Jul 25 20:01:49 suprising anyone can change the topic Jul 25 20:02:00 malik1972: of course :) Jul 25 20:02:02 no, the instructions there are confusing. I and others told him how to fix it. but well, you know. Jul 25 20:02:10 he had overlapping subnets. Jul 25 20:02:17 lpotter: hehe ... but i like it nevertheless Jul 25 20:02:21 They're not confusing Jul 25 20:02:26 damn well are. Jul 25 20:02:36 the entire wiki is terrible. Jul 25 20:02:48 We should be ashmed of its organization Jul 25 20:02:50 Chocky: I did ask that: Jul 25 20:02:51 Well if you know so much about that, why don't you edit it ? Jul 25 20:02:56 lpotter: i had also some other issues in mind but forgot them Jul 25 20:02:57 15:36 < dino-> I'm not sure if I should just change the address field in /etc/network/interfaces or other things. I don't want to get it to some state where I can't ssh back to it. Jul 25 20:03:00 dino-: and someone said several times. Jul 25 20:03:06 Ainulindale: I will, as soon as I have time. Jul 25 20:03:07 15:37 < Wonka> dino-: just change that one number Jul 25 20:03:15 dino-: You can change the IP as long as you remember the new one Jul 25 20:03:22 lpotter: will come back to you later Jul 25 20:03:30 And even if you can't ssh back, you'll be able to flash rootfs again Jul 25 20:03:38 But that won't happen Jul 25 20:03:40 sigh Jul 25 20:03:45 * Chocky already said all this Jul 25 20:03:58 this is why it's impossible to help someone here. _even_ if they listen, people all try to hel pat once. Jul 25 20:04:03 dino-: ah, maybe you should change the default gateway address too - otherwise you'd get no internet, but only access to the subnet the FR is in Jul 25 20:04:05 /topic #openmoko Jul 25 20:04:05 Openmoko | Freerunner stock: 850's are in stock. | Official Updates: Jul 25 20:04:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart | | Software status - Jul 25 20:04:05 NOT a stable phone yet, even for expert users. | Community dev #openmoko-cdevel | See Jul 25 20:04:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems Jul 25 20:04:11 errrr Jul 25 20:04:13 Remember what I said about the disease earlier Chocky ? I think you have it. Jul 25 20:04:18 I do. Jul 25 20:04:18 sie == they ? Jul 25 20:04:33 Chocky: You should calm down, don't help people if they don't want help Jul 25 20:04:44 Ainulindale: you've horribly misread the situation. Jul 25 20:04:59 Perhaps, but what you said looks mean to me Jul 25 20:05:04 you came in halfway though. don't make assumptions. Jul 25 20:05:09 But as I'm french, I may misread/misunderstand. Jul 25 20:05:20 Well, this discussion leads to nowhere, I'm off to do other stuff. Jul 25 20:05:23 good Jul 25 20:05:50 Chocky: I appreciate the help and I do know what it's like to try to help people who know quite a bit less on a topic as you do. I think you've been a bit rude to me today, I'm sorry to say. Jul 25 20:05:56 Yep, that way you should be able to tell you already say that or this someway :-) Jul 25 20:06:03 I have, but nothing you didn't deserve. Jul 25 20:06:21 That's a very sad attitude, my friend. :( Jul 25 20:06:30 nope. Jul 25 20:06:49 I challenge _you_ to help someone who won't answer the questions and won't follow the directions. Jul 25 20:07:09 hey I haven't flashed now since I got the phone, how often should I flash? Jul 25 20:07:36 lpotter 850 in stock where? Jul 25 20:07:55 * araujo just checked store Jul 25 20:08:00 and nothing yet Jul 25 20:08:27 Wonka: Thank you, about the gateway. Jul 25 20:09:31 SpeedEvil: just changing the topis back to what it was before. Jul 25 20:09:34 topic Jul 25 20:10:01 Chocky, then apologize and excuse yourself from the room, if you are frustrated, but try hard not to get snippy, it perpetuates the stereotype that all linux people and RTFM-assholes. It takes a long time to stop stereotypes and so little time to confirm them. Jul 25 20:10:47 railer: yes, very clever. Everyone can point fingers. Do you want me to lay out some blame? Jul 25 20:11:25 * Chocky is not an "RTFM-asshole", FWIW. since I've clearly pointed out how bad the FM is. Jul 25 20:11:30 fwiw the wiki is what you make of it. it may not resemble the getting started guide of a consumer phone but it is still a valuable resource Jul 25 20:11:46 lpotter, also remove the 850's are in stock Jul 25 20:11:50 since they are out :) Jul 25 20:12:27 no I know he was difficult, and why people by a phone like this without considerable skills is beyond me, but please try to be tolerant, I know you help out MANY people all the time. Jul 25 20:13:18 railer: people just want to help out... which is in good spirit and all Jul 25 20:13:22 TAsn: anyone change change the topic Jul 25 20:13:34 much better Jul 25 20:13:36 but now that book that was linked to me a while back (The Mythical Man Month) is starting to show its meaning well Jul 25 20:13:36 sometime's it's best just to say sorry dude boss watching gotta go good luck! Jul 25 20:15:59 It's though I know especially when you think that EVERYONE here is helping get a phone working for FREE. Jul 25 20:20:01 when building the openmoko kernel from source using the instructions from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain I get the error that ./build: Error line 12: mkimage not found Jul 25 20:20:13 has anyone else has such an issue? Jul 25 20:21:13 railer: lecture as you like, I disagree. And there's no apostrophe in "sometimes" :p Jul 25 20:22:02 seriously, that's funny, did... did... Jul 25 20:22:14 Yeah, you're right, it's just better to lecture someone about his command of english as a non native speaker (or native), instead of helping Jul 25 20:22:15 I get it right this time? Jul 25 20:22:41 Ainulindale: whoosh! There was no lecturing. It was a suggestion since I clearly knew you were a foreign speaker. Jul 25 20:22:59 And it was sarcasm. Jul 25 20:23:09 railer: no idea, can't make head or tails of what you think your correction is. Jul 25 20:23:21 Ainulindale: ah, I see. You got the disease now? Jul 25 20:23:55 As I said before, this discussion leads nowhere Jul 25 20:24:01 if you don't have it, you feel a little lonely. XD Jul 25 20:24:04 I'm not I just suck at English :) Did I get the apostrophe in "that's" correct this time? Jul 25 20:24:07 It's real funny how hypocrisy works, I fear. Jul 25 20:24:32 railer: while we're at it. sometimes punctuation helps as well. :) Jul 25 20:25:23 I'm just yanking ya Chocky, I've watched the channel you help out lots I was out of line, I just thought I could help. Jul 25 20:25:33 Ainulindale: In my _very_ considerable experince, it's that the vast majority of Europeans with English as a second language appreciate polite English corrections. And also in my experince, many of such people have better English than those who should really know better. Jul 25 20:26:04 I certainly wish _I_ had a second language. Jul 25 20:26:21 my second language is Gibberish Jul 25 20:26:26 Hell I wish I had a first! Jul 25 20:27:39 I speak enough French, Spanish, and German to convince people who are native to those tongues that I am a complete idiot. Jul 25 20:28:00 * awesomo4k watches fso compile Jul 25 20:28:12 Hello. Jul 25 20:28:30 does anyone build the moko distributions from scratch or is everyone pretty much using the MokoMakefile Jul 25 20:28:31 I'm having some problems with sharing my internet connction from Neo FreeRunner via OSX. Jul 25 20:28:39 i am building from scratch Jul 25 20:28:51 well...using the pre-compiled toolchain that is Jul 25 20:28:54 * balrog-kun didn't have much luck with his native language, everyone thinks i speak it terrible Jul 25 20:29:07 awesomo4k: Building all images from scratch here, almost daily for over a year :) Jul 25 20:29:11 * balrog-kun had most luck at the third try Jul 25 20:29:20 CM: dedicated Jul 25 20:29:25 what is the latest version of uboot? and what is a good reason to upgrade uboot? Jul 25 20:29:42 ext3 booting Jul 25 20:29:52 Chocky: Gentoo syndrome maybe ;) Jul 25 20:29:56 CM: do you have to get mkimage from the u-boot source using the git tree? Jul 25 20:29:58 ricers. Jul 25 20:30:22 what would you say to someone who wanted to create their own custom distro ... is there a howto for that Jul 25 20:30:30 CM: the pre-compiled toolchain appears not to have mkimage so using ./build doesnt work Jul 25 20:30:45 well, openembedded is pretty much _all about_ creating your distro :] Jul 25 20:30:50 awesomo4k: if memory serves, there's an OM file which says exact which packages end up in your image. Jul 25 20:30:53 awesomo4k: I'd say pick a current one and contribute to it though.. Jul 25 20:31:01 There's already how many? 5? 6? Jul 25 20:31:11 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 25 20:31:12 he might have some custom need. Jul 25 20:31:19 mak163: Oh, hmm.. I've been using the makefile mostly Jul 25 20:31:39 Chocky: True. ScaredyCat used to build custom 2007.2 images for the gta01 Jul 25 20:31:42 oh ok, any idea where to get mkimage? u-boot is supposed to ahve it right? Jul 25 20:32:00 can't say I'm overly excited by the default packages in either ASU or GTK Jul 25 20:32:01 mak163: Can't you install it in your distro? Jul 25 20:32:04 would you say a good approach is to start with an fso checkout and setup a local git repo to start hacking on? Jul 25 20:32:22 hi Jul 25 20:32:24 mak163: I think I had to do that once (long time ago..) Jul 25 20:32:41 i am on ubuntu hardy 8.04, and cant see to find where to get the download for it Jul 25 20:32:55 http://packages.debian.org/sid/uboot-mkimage Jul 25 20:32:58 you could bitbake mkimage Jul 25 20:33:04 is anybody here that could help with a freerunner that doesn't start up anymore? (black screen after boot) Jul 25 20:33:35 it happened after i started the gps application (without the sd card inserted) Jul 25 20:33:36 thank you very much, this issue has been killin me all day.....::getting a bit stressed out:: :'( Jul 25 20:33:49 tinita2: reflash kernel and/or image Jul 25 20:33:56 mak163: apt-cache search says package "jigit" but i don't think thats the same mkimage Jul 25 20:34:08 Chocky: ok, i'm a newbie, what does reflash mean? Jul 25 20:34:12 tinita2: tried flashing rootfs anew? Jul 25 20:34:13 awesomo4k: it's not, install the once I said Jul 25 20:34:17 awesome4k: its not Jul 25 20:34:28 namespace collision ! Jul 25 20:34:32 tinita2: please read getting started guide Jul 25 20:34:36 awesome4k: but i sure tried it :P Jul 25 20:35:14 tinita2: it's rewriting the system into the non volatile memory Jul 25 20:35:31 it might have ran out of space or corrupted or something Jul 25 20:35:32 mak163 i think that it's the u-boot-mkimage-openmoko-native/ Jul 25 20:35:44 or u-boot utils Jul 25 20:36:08 methrill|laptop: the name of the debian package? Jul 25 20:36:09 Chocky: thanks, i'll try to understand the boot menu thing now Jul 25 20:36:30 Chocky: should i insert the sd card for that? Jul 25 20:36:35 tinita2: please read getting started guide Jul 25 20:36:35 tinita2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner his is very helpful Jul 25 20:36:50 not, the name f the bitbake receipe Jul 25 20:37:13 tinita2 you don't need the mini sd at all Jul 25 20:37:15 ok ok, i'm already reading =) Jul 25 20:37:25 great, xmms shown on the qutopia desktop - but guess what - there's no xmms Jul 25 20:37:31 er, qtopia Jul 25 20:37:44 methrill|laptop: oh ok, i will have to look into that, not very familiar with bitbake...you dont know a good wiki instruction page do you? Jul 25 20:38:47 i can't even shutdown any more Jul 25 20:38:56 hve to remove the battery Jul 25 20:38:57 pull the battery Jul 25 20:39:00 =) Jul 25 20:39:49 now i wish i had two hands Jul 25 20:40:10 ? Jul 25 20:40:34 i just have one, so i'll try to hold aux and power now with this hand =) Jul 25 20:40:52 tinita2, do you know linux well? Jul 25 20:41:18 mak163 openembedded,net & the poky handbook (very well documented) --> http://pokylinux.org Jul 25 20:41:19 railer: a bit, i'm not as good as a sys admin, but... Jul 25 20:41:26 railer: i'm a programmer Jul 25 20:41:31 ok Jul 25 20:41:43 railer: and using debian on my home notebook Jul 25 20:41:53 methril|laptop: thank you very much for helping me, i really appreciate it Jul 25 20:42:02 you are very wellcome Jul 25 20:42:10 I was worried because the phrase "newbie" and "freerunner" should never be used in the same sentence Jul 25 20:42:18 hehe Jul 25 20:42:21 at the beginning it's a litle bit difficult to understand the build system Jul 25 20:43:18 it is, but hopefully ill get the source built now thanks to your help Jul 25 20:43:23 methril|laptop: few complex build systems for which that isn't the case ;-( I know, I build build systems. Jul 25 20:43:27 but if you're a debian whore then you should be up and running soon, but one arm thing could be a problem, tiny kb, could be tricky Jul 25 20:43:58 and I mean whore in the best possible sense :) Jul 25 20:44:16 railer: I'm a Debian whore in all the senses. Jul 25 20:45:05 then you don't like ubuntu :) Jul 25 20:45:22 not as such, but not in any strong manner. Jul 25 20:45:29 hehehe Jul 25 20:45:29 set console to usb doesn't work, i get the nor boot menu again Jul 25 20:45:31 let's just say I despise Fedora Jul 25 20:45:37 i use debian and ubuntu Jul 25 20:45:43 i prefer deb packaging than rpm Jul 25 20:45:54 RPM is a huge part of it, but Fedora is rife with issues. Jul 25 20:46:10 yes, it's really good integrated Jul 25 20:46:14 methril|laptop: specifically, what do you dislike about RPM? Jul 25 20:46:27 well, i'm not used to :) Jul 25 20:46:39 i'm more confortable with deb packages Jul 25 20:46:45 i tested gentoo too Jul 25 20:46:59 and now, at job, i'm dealing with a CentOS 5 server Jul 25 20:47:12 RPM hell, and how an RPM with failures during installation is still marked as installed ok. Jul 25 20:47:21 trying to make it work as a oe genrator Jul 25 20:47:23 methril|laptop: I'm not used to RPM or DEB. I use TGZ. But as far as I know RPM and DEB do pretty much the same things Jul 25 20:47:35 yes, i knoe Jul 25 20:47:36 sitwon: only very superficially. Jul 25 20:47:40 tinita2: I think it goes back to the nor boot menu after you set console to usb Jul 25 20:47:46 s/knoe/know Jul 25 20:47:48 tinita2: try connecting to it anyway Jul 25 20:47:49 RPM is a series of back hacks and over-complex solutions. Jul 25 20:47:50 tomjoad440: ok Jul 25 20:47:53 bad Jul 25 20:48:08 tomjoad440: i selected "Boot" after that, i see the "please wait" screen now Jul 25 20:48:10 oh Jul 25 20:48:24 it' up again, phooey Jul 25 20:48:27 i'd like the ports system too (something similar to portage system in gentoo) Jul 25 20:48:32 thanks for that Jul 25 20:48:40 methril|laptop: OE _is_ very much like portage. Jul 25 20:48:46 yes Jul 25 20:49:02 tinita2: when you set console to usb you can then connect and do things within uboot Jul 25 20:49:03 but for my laptop takes ages to get the things compiled Jul 25 20:49:03 any experiences with crashing "GPS & Map" application? Jul 25 20:49:04 hehehe Jul 25 20:49:07 * Chocky likes how people pretend that Gentoo's portage system is somehow original ;-) Jul 25 20:49:24 tomjoad440: yeah, i saw the usb0 active on my notebook Jul 25 20:49:59 in fact OE's bitbake is based on portage Jul 25 20:50:04 Chocky: portage may not be original, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Also, emerge is a bit different than what existed before.... Jul 25 20:50:10 uhm!! nice to know it Jul 25 20:50:12 :) Jul 25 20:50:12 probably doesn't have any original code in it anymore tho Jul 25 20:50:24 BSD ports wossname predates them both Jul 25 20:50:40 as do Debian source packages, which is not a dissimilar idea Jul 25 20:50:44 for me portage it's a better use of ports Jul 25 20:50:59 sitwon: portage isn't, but Gentoo is ;-) Jul 25 20:51:22 Chocky: sure, portage even derives it's name fro ports Jul 25 20:51:25 its Jul 25 20:51:25 well, cooking time Jul 25 20:51:27 its :p Jul 25 20:52:11 i love ports when i'm on macOS Jul 25 20:52:26 it's the only way to get GNU libraries working on it Jul 25 20:52:46 thanks again for the help all, g2g Jul 25 20:53:17 * Chocky also wrote a very similar system about the same time OE was being developed, for a different non-Unix OS. Jul 25 20:54:15 what system? Jul 25 20:54:19 RISC OS Jul 25 20:55:12 the old amiga friendly system? Jul 25 20:55:17 uh, no Jul 25 20:55:23 BeOS? Jul 25 20:55:26 no. Jul 25 20:55:30 and not Risc/OS Jul 25 20:55:31 uy!! Jul 25 20:56:33 hi all... I just got my freerunner yetserrday and I'm trying to follow the getting started wiki page Jul 25 20:56:48 I've got it set up so I can SSH into the phone from my desktop, but the phone can't seem to get to the internet Jul 25 20:56:57 deja vu. Jul 25 20:56:58 I think I've followed all the instructions on the usb networking page Jul 25 20:57:09 I can't even ping the desktop computer from the phone Jul 25 20:57:11 how can it "not get to the internet". please be explicit. Jul 25 20:57:17 I can't ping anything Jul 25 20:57:20 I can't resolve addresses Jul 25 20:57:25 (I set up resolv.conf) Jul 25 20:57:45 what is your desktop OS? Jul 25 20:57:50 fedora 7 Jul 25 20:57:53 yuck Jul 25 20:58:08 please install Debian, and come back later ;-) Jul 25 20:58:10 it's an old computer... I'm not going to bother to upgrade to F9 until I build a new one Jul 25 20:58:14 debian is trash Jul 25 20:58:18 you are trash! Jul 25 20:58:24 ;-) Jul 25 20:58:29 it doesn't matter for this anyways Jul 25 20:58:33 at least, it shouldn't Jul 25 20:58:35 well, it might. Jul 25 20:58:41 this is Fedora. they do odd things. Jul 25 20:58:41 Yanroy: sounds like firewall Jul 25 20:58:41 setting up usb0 was really easy... Jul 25 20:58:47 I dropped my firewall on the desktop Jul 25 20:59:01 but let's take a step back Jul 25 20:59:03 completely :P cuz I thoght maybe I hadn't configured it right Jul 25 20:59:04 can you ssh to the FR? Jul 25 20:59:06 yep Jul 25 20:59:19 but you can't ping the usb0 IP from the FR? Jul 25 20:59:42 if by "usb0 IP" you mean the one set up on the desktop (192.168.0.200), no Jul 25 20:59:49 the phone seems to have IP 192.168.0.202 Jul 25 20:59:52 what happens when you try? Jul 25 20:59:59 just sits like a lemon? Jul 25 21:00:17 all yellow & squeezable? Jul 25 21:00:19 it's so freaking weird. i restarted the 'firewall' in my router, now the moko gets a dhcp address again Jul 25 21:00:20 yes. Jul 25 21:00:39 Fossi: some routers are shit. It's true. Jul 25 21:00:48 * Chocky blames linksys for lowering standards. Jul 25 21:00:53 if I ping any address, it sits until I hit ctrl-C, then it tells me it sent a bunch of packets and all were lost Jul 25 21:00:56 Chocky: s/some/consumer/ Jul 25 21:01:04 Yanroy: most likely it is your firewall. Jul 25 21:01:05 July 25 is finished but the webstore still does not offer any FRs? Jul 25 21:01:16 Fossi - what are you using? A linksys? Jul 25 21:01:18 but I already killed iptables on my desktop... Jul 25 21:01:20 this smc thing is truely flakey Jul 25 21:01:23 zash: plenty of "enterprise" routers are also terrible. Jul 25 21:01:26 smhar: they sold out already, I think Jul 25 21:01:37 normally i just used it as an ap Jul 25 21:01:46 and use my linux box as the router Jul 25 21:01:56 Stroller, only the 850s, but they did not offer any 900s Jul 25 21:02:16 Yanroy: what does "on your desktop" mean?" Jul 25 21:02:25 as I said, Fedora is causing headaches Jul 25 21:02:33 smhar: ah, well, you didn't say that. :P Jul 25 21:02:40 wait, progress... I can ping 192.168.0.200 now, just not anything outside (like google, even if I use the IP instead of th ename) Jul 25 21:02:56 huh? on my desktop means desktop firewall Jul 25 21:03:00 I never remember which way round the two frequencies are Jul 25 21:03:04 so now you need the forwarding/NATing as per the wiki Jul 25 21:03:09 my machine runs iptables... so I stopped the service Jul 25 21:03:14 so some trashy Fedora firewall config? ;p Jul 25 21:03:24 I configured it myself Jul 25 21:03:31 but it's stopped now, so it shouldn't matter Jul 25 21:03:34 oh dear. iptables is a service. stupido Fedora :p Jul 25 21:03:41 don't assume that. Jul 25 21:03:48 Yanroy: you need iptables, at least the nat table, for NATing your FR into the Net Jul 25 21:03:48 Chocky: why it should be Jul 25 21:03:53 iptables is tool to maintain firewalling state Jul 25 21:04:17 ok, you need netfilter then ;) Jul 25 21:04:21 Fedora's use of it as a userspacd daemon is just on top of that. Jul 25 21:04:26 richiefrich: no idea what you're asking Jul 25 21:04:33 Chocky: you must be in great demand for popularity contests Jul 25 21:04:50 ok, I recall something on the wiki about iptables, so I'll go read and try that... Jul 25 21:04:51 Stroller: Fedora sucks, it's all I have to say ;-) Jul 25 21:04:55 thanks for your help so far Jul 25 21:04:58 brb Jul 25 21:05:08 with empty nat table, internet access from rfc1918 addresses won't work Jul 25 21:05:11 plus, I build routers. Jul 25 21:05:27 Chocky: why shouldnt iptables be an init script, it makes it easier to start stop and reload Jul 25 21:06:05 richiefrich: I didn't say it shouldn't be, it's just that I don't trust Fedora to do it right. Jul 25 21:06:18 Chocky: heh Jul 25 21:06:27 and besides, the naming is clearly confusing in this instance verus the tool itself Jul 25 21:06:53 "stopping iptables service" could mean "emptying all tables" Jul 25 21:06:53 the phone keeps going to sleep while I'm ssh'ed in, any way to prevent that? Jul 25 21:07:02 mmontour: ping Jul 25 21:07:04 whatever that should be good for Jul 25 21:07:08 Wonka: I think it actually says something to that effect when it shuts down Jul 25 21:07:13 Wonka: one hopes, but one cannot be sure ;-) Jul 25 21:07:39 and besides, it might set a DENY policy on the tables by "default" Jul 25 21:07:49 Wha'ts the difference between gehe, ging, gegange ? Jul 25 21:07:53 any native speakers around ? Jul 25 21:08:05 gegangen* Jul 25 21:08:11 CVirus: gehen, ging, gegangen Jul 25 21:08:16 actually, it sets it to accept Jul 25 21:08:16 CVirus: Swahili? Jul 25 21:08:18 <|Marco|> can anyone tell me where the information about how you can change where and how the clock is displayed on the default image on the freerunner ? Jul 25 21:08:22 CVirus: it's like go, went, gone Jul 25 21:08:34 <|Marco|> mw|: told me once, but I've forotten where Jul 25 21:08:41 CVirus: actually, it's exactly that Jul 25 21:09:08 Yanroy: I had that happening and changed to 'Power management: Dim only, don't lock' in the hold-power menu. Jul 25 21:09:30 Wonka: isn't there like an irc channel on some network where native speakers gather and give free support to beginners ? Jul 25 21:09:41 CVirus: Swahili? Jul 25 21:09:43 CVirus: beginners in what? Jul 25 21:09:58 Deutsch Jul 25 21:10:03 "dim" seems to include this screen locking thing, while "lock" seems to mean "suspend to ram" Jul 25 21:10:05 Nien. Jul 25 21:10:15 Chocky: ? Jul 25 21:10:20 Wonka: I know, sucks. Jul 25 21:10:22 Wonka: I wasn't sure when I doinked it, but seemed to have helped, ya. Jul 25 21:10:34 CVirus: don't know any. i am in several german-speaking channels, but i don't know of a learner's channel Jul 25 21:11:07 Wonka: do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions in private if I face any problems while studying ? Jul 25 21:12:03 CVirus: not really. just ask. if i'm away, ask anyway, i'll answer later Jul 25 21:12:11 Wonka: cool .. thanks Jul 25 21:13:04 great. now the connection got lost again Jul 25 21:14:54 nice, got it working! Jul 25 21:15:07 even DNS Jul 25 21:15:17 hi Jul 25 21:15:36 thanks :) Jul 25 21:16:04 now i'm using irssi on the freerunner, from a ssh console Jul 25 21:16:13 So am I right in understanding that upgrading u-boot improves battery life / suspend-resume ? Jul 25 21:16:43 Stroller: not really, only improves charging in certain circumstances. Jul 25 21:16:50 since mostly uboot isn't running Jul 25 21:16:52 mmaestri: lame. You should be using irssi on the freerunner using the 1-9 keyboard Jul 25 21:17:02 mmontour: geek Jul 25 21:17:06 er, mmaestri Jul 25 21:17:51 Ah, right. OK. It allows the FR to be run off USB, with a completely flat battery? Jul 25 21:18:08 yes, I forget specifics. Jul 25 21:18:19 and the ext3 boot stuff Jul 25 21:18:58 Right, TY Jul 25 21:19:05 malik1972: hello Jul 25 21:19:15 So it's a useful exercise for learning more about the FR, I think Jul 25 21:20:47 mmontour: hi, i have some uboot_env configuration problems Jul 25 21:21:07 mmontour: can you have a look at the below line Jul 25 21:21:15 so I think I read somewhere on the ML that if you run opkg upgrade in screen, it will survive the inevitable disconnect from restarting X and/or dropbear? is that true? Jul 25 21:21:33 mmontour: menu_1=Boot from P1: setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} rootfstype=ext3 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=5 ${mtdparts} ro; mmcinit; ext2load mmc 2 0x32000000 /boot/${sd_image_name}; bootm 0x32000000 Jul 25 21:21:40 Yanroy: yes Jul 25 21:21:50 opkg install dropbear >/dev/null 2&>1 & Jul 25 21:21:52 Yanroy: you just ssh back in when the connection is dropped Jul 25 21:21:53 will work also Jul 25 21:21:57 oops Jul 25 21:21:59 Stroller: k Jul 25 21:22:01 opkg install dropbear >/dev/null 2>&1 & Jul 25 21:22:05 it's purely dropbear Jul 25 21:22:12 Yanroy: & `screen -Rd` Jul 25 21:22:14 if like me, you're allergic to screen Jul 25 21:22:21 what's -Rd? Jul 25 21:22:27 I just know -r Jul 25 21:22:31 "mmc 2" looks wrong - try "mmc 1:2" if you want to load from the second partition Jul 25 21:22:32 I'm a screen n00b Jul 25 21:22:36 i had ssh connections via usb going, disconnected the FR, reconnected it several minutes later - and the ssh connection was still running. Jul 25 21:22:40 mmontour: i flashed a new uboot version, have fat+ext3+ext3+ext3 partitions on sd, put the kernel Jul 25 21:22:49 mmontour: okay Jul 25 21:22:54 Wonka: yes, TCPtastic. Jul 25 21:22:54 Yanroy: resumes existing session, detaching if necessary, I think Jul 25 21:23:12 tcp retransmit rocks Jul 25 21:23:26 but this is a different matter Jul 25 21:23:31 since the ssh server gets restarted :p Jul 25 21:23:37 and dropbear is kinda dumb Jul 25 21:23:38 Stroller: ah, I think I found it in the man page... if I'm reading that right, you probably want -rd, not -Rd Jul 25 21:23:52 Yanroy: no, -Rd works Jul 25 21:23:55 the latter will create the session if it doesn't exist, which may be undesirable Jul 25 21:24:05 um Jul 25 21:24:05 anyway, just use my command :p Jul 25 21:24:08 don't mess with screen Jul 25 21:24:19 screen is cool. besides, it's already been running for about 5 mins :) Jul 25 21:24:25 But the session exists because you were just using it Jul 25 21:24:36 mmontour: but mmmcinit, followed by "ext2ls mmc 1:2" gives me ** Bad ext2 partition or disk - mmc 1:2 ** Jul 25 21:24:48 And got kicked out when dropbear dropped the ssh session Jul 25 21:24:54 so does one of these updates prevent wifi from always being on whenever I boot? Jul 25 21:25:26 malik1972: it worked before running the kernel from fat and an old uboot version Jul 25 21:25:42 i'd like that too, if wifi was not powered up on boot Jul 25 21:25:55 ? how to reset bootmenu to default on neo1973 Jul 25 21:26:04 GSM i can understand - but could it please only powerup if there's a SIM inserted? Jul 25 21:26:16 Basically, if you always use `screen -Rd` if'll 1) resume a screen session if it exists, even if you're connected to it on another terminal and 2) create a new session if it doesn't. I use it as my standard "get screen up" command and rarely ever invoke screen any other way Jul 25 21:26:21 eh, I think I'm just going to install the ASU ASAP :P I'm only updating the 2007.2 stack so I can practice using this stuff Jul 25 21:26:23 mmontour: ext2load is okay for ext3 things? Jul 25 21:26:42 Yes, "ext2load" works on ext3 too. Jul 25 21:27:10 I've heard ASU reads SIM card contacts... 2007.2 did it on first boot, but not anymore... until that bug gets fixed, 2007.2 is useless for me :( Jul 25 21:27:14 Your u-boot is "20080723" or newer? Jul 25 21:27:42 i have a line "@reboot screen -d -m" in my user's crontab on my vserver and do a "screen -xRR" via ssh Jul 25 21:31:30 mmontour: no chance, same error as mentioned above, i hate uboot:-) Jul 25 21:32:03 so is there a guide on the wiki for installing ASU? Jul 25 21:32:29 is there anyone ot there using the new uboot and can post his "printenv"? Jul 25 21:32:40 s/ot/out Jul 25 21:33:58 Yanroy: search for flashing in the wiki Jul 25 21:34:21 malik1972: I just tested my SD card (in a Neo1973) and "ext2ls mmc 1:2" works for me. Maybe u-boot doesn't like your partition table. Jul 25 21:34:25 I'm reading the flashing page now... it mentions flashing the kernel and the rootfs, but not uboot... it doesn't say anything ASU-specific, either Jul 25 21:35:34 mmontour: why it should not? how many partitions you have? Jul 25 21:35:57 Yanroy: you dont need to flashuboot for testing asu on nand Jul 25 21:36:09 I created 3 partitions for testing - FAT, ext3, and ext2. Jul 25 21:36:18 what is the FAT for? Jul 25 21:36:32 malik1972: I figured I should update uboot just because there's a new version out Jul 25 21:36:33 mmontour: i have 4,fat+ext3+ext2+ext3 Jul 25 21:36:40 for setting the +x bit on all your files, of course Jul 25 21:36:46 kelvie_work: ah yes. Jul 25 21:37:05 why chmod -R +x when you can just store stuff on fat32? Jul 25 21:37:06 yanroy: if you do that you should modify your uboot_env Jul 25 21:37:26 kelvie_work: cygwin on fat32, oh the comedy Jul 25 21:37:31 hehe Jul 25 21:37:37 I'm glad I never have to use cygwin again Jul 25 21:37:38 malik1972: I'm afraid I don't know what uboot_env is... and are you suggesting I shouldn't upgrade uboot? Jul 25 21:37:41 (I hope) Jul 25 21:37:52 mmontour: setenv menu_1 Boot from P1: setenv bootargs \${bootargs_base} rootfstype=ext3 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=5 \${mtdparts} ro\; mmcinit\; ext2load mmc 1:2 0x32000000 \/boot\/\${sd_image_name}\; bootm 0x32000000 Jul 25 21:37:58 kelvie_work: I have to use it every day (well, actually I use it by choice because I can't tolerate plain windows)... stupid company I work for Jul 25 21:38:16 * Chocky uses cygwin from time to time. it's ok. Jul 25 21:38:18 yanroy: i cant get it work, but doesnt mean anything Jul 25 21:38:24 much better than Windows "tools" Jul 25 21:38:58 malik1972: so it can be updated independently of kernel/rootfs? I guess I'll worry about upgrading it another day Jul 25 21:39:04 Yanroy: yes. Jul 25 21:39:13 Yanroy: yeah I hear ya Jul 25 21:39:23 I would imagine you are not alone in that position :) Jul 25 21:39:31 a lot of developers over here run cygwin Jul 25 21:39:56 yanroy: take your time reading the wikis on uboot ... Jul 25 21:40:15 hehe... I'm twice as productive as the other coders at my company because I use cygwin and vim instead of MS visual C++ Jul 25 21:41:13 malik1972: can you pastebin the output of the following u-boot commands? "version", "mmcinit", "fatls mmc 1:1", "ext2ls mmc 1:2" Jul 25 21:41:30 sure Jul 25 21:41:37 I use.. emacs on linux instead of visual studio :P Jul 25 21:41:41 one moment please Jul 25 21:42:08 and I don't know.. I think it's tough to measure productivity :P Jul 25 21:42:36 MichaelShiloh: i remember your name from somewhere :-) Jul 25 21:42:52 functional modules that meet spec / expresso. Jul 25 21:44:55 mmontour: U-Boot 1.3.2+gitr6+ba029a1426bfca169572bf80d50a8b190a6b0e19 (Jul 24 2008 - 00:51:40) Jul 25 21:45:18 malik1972: wind river? Jul 25 21:45:22 mmontour: Card Type: SD 2.0 SDHC Jul 25 21:45:55 MichaelShiloh: just a joke ... i mean you r a VIP in this channel Jul 25 21:45:56 does all the opkg stuff work with ASU? I dont want to be limiting myself to less software by switching... also is ASU stable enough for a (buggy) phone? I know even the 2007.2 is barely usable, but I knew what I was getting into when I bought this thing Jul 25 21:47:27 mmontour: here we go http://pastebin.ca/1082923 Jul 25 21:47:38 oh, and once I flash the ASU onto the device, can it update itself to the latest daily release, or must I re-flash every day? Jul 25 21:49:31 Hello. How to setup the timezone? Jul 25 21:49:45 gah... wiki says "Look for files of the form: openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-om-gta02.tar.gz", but there aren't any named like that in the ASU daily build directories... what do I actually want? Jul 25 21:49:47 yanroy: you can use opkg for that Jul 25 21:49:51 read the getting started guide Jul 25 21:50:09 Yanroy: ASU and 2007.2 behave mostly the same way. you can update it everyday Jul 25 21:50:28 there's some issues with ASU default repositories right now, however Jul 25 21:50:30 mmaestri, malik1972: thanks.. that's exactly what I wanted to hear :) Jul 25 21:50:51 Chocky: oh well... will it require reflashing to fix, or is it a remote host problem? Jul 25 21:50:57 dunno Jul 25 21:51:11 whatever... I just want to try it. which file(s) should I download? Jul 25 21:51:13 malik1972: that pastebin looks OK to me (except for the error, of course). Does ext2ls give the same error for your other partitions (1:3 and 1:4)? Jul 25 21:52:07 mmontour: yes:-( Jul 25 21:52:43 mmontour: maybe it cant handle 4 partitions Jul 25 21:53:28 mmontour: is it okay to load the kernel from a subdirectory Jul 25 21:53:37 Well, "works for me" (with 3 partitions; I haven't tried 4). Sorry, I don't have any other ideas. Jul 25 21:53:50 Yes, AFAIK it's OK to load the kernel from a subdirectory Jul 25 21:53:53 is there a .ashrc file similar to a .bashrc file for busybox? I triedteh obvious .ashrc and it didn't seem to work Jul 25 21:54:09 opkg install bash :o Jul 25 21:54:19 i can union the last two partitions Jul 25 21:54:54 and give it a try Jul 25 21:55:38 but i dont think that this is the problem Jul 25 21:55:49 uboot doesnt like me, thats all Jul 25 21:57:52 I'm guessing I want this: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080725/uImage-2.6.24+git25+8533927964761f4e2078ccd8607b90f5acc60b93-r0-om-gta02.bin Jul 25 21:58:02 is the kernel image really only 1.7MB? that seems way too small Jul 25 21:58:02 yes Jul 25 21:58:08 too small for what? Jul 25 21:58:13 for an entire kernel Jul 25 21:58:22 kernels are supposed to be small.. Jul 25 21:58:23 how big is your desktop kernel? Jul 25 21:58:25 ah ha! I just have to update /etc/profile Jul 25 21:58:26 dunno Jul 25 21:58:32 well then :p Jul 25 21:58:53 part of the reason it's called a kernel is because it is small Jul 25 21:58:56 there's gotta be more than 1.7 million lines of code in the kernel, and each line should produce more than 1 byte of opcodes... Jul 25 21:59:02 it's true that Fedroa kernel packages are massive, becase they include every damn thing Jul 25 21:59:19 there is, but much of it isn't used on any given machine Jul 25 21:59:46 for starters, the arch specific stuff is huge, and you only need one arch :-) Jul 25 21:59:47 Yanroy: modules my friend :P Jul 25 21:59:52 and arch specific stuff yeah Jul 25 21:59:57 so is this this the rootfs? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080725/modules-2.6.24+git25+8533927964761f4e2078ccd8607b90f5acc60b93-r0-om-gta02.tgz Jul 25 21:59:58 and you would only use 1-2% of the drivers in practice Jul 25 22:00:20 never mind all the stuff you can turn off on a device like the FR Jul 25 22:00:35 wow.. my gentoo kernel is a lot bigger than my ubuntu kernel (because I compile so much stuff in) Jul 25 22:00:54 ricer! Jul 25 22:00:55 just compile in what you need ! Jul 25 22:01:01 Chocky: shut up :-p Jul 25 22:01:16 I would have though that the Gentoo kernel would be "trimmed for size" or somesuch Jul 25 22:01:33 Chocky: apparently he doesn't know what he's doing Jul 25 22:01:34 all depends on th .config :P Jul 25 22:01:54 71234 O 4022 blazing 3G fireball Jul 25 22:02:01 plus if you turn on the kernel debug, it can become real phat, real phast Jul 25 22:02:05 failed Jul 25 22:02:25 _plus_ the uImage, like a bzImage, is compressed. Jul 25 22:02:26 ow... damnit... this laser pointer thing is going to be the end of my eyes... every time I grab it to twist the stylus point out, I shine it in my eyes :P Jul 25 22:02:28 so it's really 3MB Jul 25 22:02:41 i know i dont Jul 25 22:02:42 take out the batteries Jul 25 22:03:05 linuxxee: I'm pretty sure that's the SIM I have... it works for phone calls, I haven't tried GPRS yet Jul 25 22:03:14 my kernel is 2.6mb Jul 25 22:03:20 Gentoo here Jul 25 22:03:24 sweet, 2.6 millibits Jul 25 22:03:34 MB* Jul 25 22:04:02 do i have to turn off gsm then insert the card then turn gsm back on or sumfin? Jul 25 22:04:35 you are proposing to inset the SIM with the FR powered up? Jul 25 22:05:07 is it normal for uboot to say "push aux to go back to boot menu" when I choose "set console to USB", but then a sec later go back to the boot menu without me pushing aux? Jul 25 22:05:18 nope Jul 25 22:05:18 --power off-- Jul 25 22:05:31 Yanroy: sounds like time for a u-boot upgrade :p Jul 25 22:05:38 Chocky: really? Jul 25 22:05:49 Chocky: I'm using the stock uboot Jul 25 22:05:56 well, you keep mooing about it :p Jul 25 22:06:04 I just don't know what to expect Jul 25 22:06:07 now it turned itself off :P Jul 25 22:06:14 death and destruction. Jul 25 22:06:44 Yanroy: yes, it's normal. "Set console to USB" just sets some environment variables (which should default to USB-console anyway) Jul 25 22:08:24 hmm... that auto-power-off timeout is really annoying... any way to increase it? Jul 25 22:09:12 "setenv boot_menu_timeout 65535" (or some other large number) Jul 25 22:10:04 the wiki says Jul 25 22:10:12 my rootfs image file should be .jffs2 Jul 25 22:10:21 I have a tgz file, which I assume is a gzipped tar archive? Jul 25 22:10:39 it is Jul 25 22:10:42 or do I need something else Jul 25 22:10:44 so I have MokoMakefile installed and setup, is there documentation on compiling an app I can run on my NF? Jul 25 22:11:18 Yashy: I just discovered this this morning, no idea if its any good, but it looks useful: http://andreasdalsgaard.blogspot.com/2008/07/openmoko-development-in-5-minutes.html Jul 25 22:12:20 how do I flash this tgz file to the device? same as the wiki says for jffs2? Jul 25 22:12:32 you don't Jul 25 22:12:38 ok... Jul 25 22:12:41 * Chocky thinks yanroy has answered his own question several times over Jul 25 22:12:47 have I? Jul 25 22:12:55 yep. Jul 25 22:13:04 in that case, I'd appreciate somone stating the obvious... Jul 25 22:13:10 well, you could boot from SD, make an empty jffs2 on the internal flash, mount it, and then extract the tgz there Jul 25 22:13:14 mjr already did :p Jul 25 22:13:17 but that'd be somewhat cumbersome Jul 25 22:13:33 there's a tool for making the jffs2 from the tgz? Jul 25 22:13:42 no, there's the tool for downloading the jffs2 Jul 25 22:14:25 you can untar it and then make it into a jffs2 image of course though... Jul 25 22:14:42 make it a cpio and boot it as a ramdisk :p Jul 25 22:15:02 Chocky: what's this tool you speak of for getting the jffs2? Jul 25 22:15:06 mkfs.jffs2 I think Jul 25 22:15:07 your browser. Jul 25 22:15:17 Chocky: but there isn't one in the daily build folder Jul 25 22:16:14 nor a tgz ;-) Jul 25 22:16:23 there's a tgz in there... I'm looking at the ASU Jul 25 22:16:33 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/ Jul 25 22:16:47 I'm looking at the one for today Jul 25 22:16:49 should I not be? Jul 25 22:16:53 * Chocky wonders where you are looking Jul 25 22:17:39 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080725/ Jul 25 22:18:07 the one for the 22nd has a lot more stuff in it... can I mix and match the 25th's kernel with the 22nd's rootfs? Jul 25 22:18:08 modules theres i .tgz Jul 25 22:18:16 pray tell, where is the .tgz in that dir besides the modules? ;p Jul 25 22:18:27 Chocky: modules is what I'm talkling about Jul 25 22:18:35 oh dear Jul 25 22:18:46 that's jst kernel modules Jul 25 22:19:10 ok...not what I want. well, there's no jffs2 in the 25th's directory, so I guess I need to use the 22nd's Jul 25 22:19:10 is there a command to know what build you currently have for 2007.2? Jul 25 22:19:13 as for the images, I assume there's some present build breakages Jul 25 22:19:32 mee too Jul 25 22:19:45 /etc/issue Jul 25 22:19:50 Chocky: so should I switch to the older kernel (I've already got the new one flashed) Jul 25 22:19:52 /etc/version Jul 25 22:20:00 maybe? Jul 25 22:20:12 new kernel should be good Jul 25 22:20:15 k Jul 25 22:20:17 here goes... Jul 25 22:20:35 crunch Jul 25 22:20:56 now it has nice square edges Jul 25 22:22:36 is 20080622 too old? Jul 25 22:23:34 should a freerunner be pulling opkg's from the neo1973 repo? Jul 25 22:24:00 CVirus: mine's 2.8gb on my 64 bit system :o Jul 25 22:24:03 er Jul 25 22:24:04 MB Jul 25 22:24:12 the "Registering" in the top left corner has to do with the phone part is that correct? Jul 25 22:24:18 ricer! Jul 25 22:24:20 :-p Jul 25 22:24:21 linuxxee: yeah, that's from the GSM network Jul 25 22:24:27 haha Jul 25 22:24:29 CVirus: "shut up" Jul 25 22:24:32 thanks Jul 25 22:24:49 haha Jul 25 22:24:54 linuxxee: np Jul 25 22:25:05 had 3 different sims in there an thats all it says Jul 25 22:25:16 you fitted 3 SIMs to your FR? Jul 25 22:25:25 linuxxee: you're sure you're in a place that has signal, and that you waited long enough for it to register? Jul 25 22:25:28 time to register is 1 minuite? Jul 25 22:25:37 linuxxee: probably about that Jul 25 22:25:51 15 minuits each Jul 25 22:26:29 my working SIM is 71234 O 4022... that's what you said yours was, right? Jul 25 22:26:38 1 t-mobile go phone Jul 25 22:26:46 yup Jul 25 22:26:51 #2 Jul 25 22:27:01 y now on @3 Jul 25 22:27:13 i check the # Jul 25 22:27:43 Yanroy: How is your flash coming? Jul 25 22:28:03 Centaur5: kernel is done, I just finsihed downloading the rootfs, so I'm just starting that flash now Jul 25 22:28:11 64205g 3020 Jul 25 22:28:19 #3 Jul 25 22:29:07 Yanroy: I'm tempted to upgrade just don't want to lose any functionality cause it's my only phone. You've been asking the very questions that I've had so I just read along. :) Jul 25 22:29:29 yes the sim site says #3 doesnt work Jul 25 22:29:47 Centaur5: lol... well, I had to switch plans so I could get a GSM provider so I have a backup free phone from that, but my other friends are all using their FRs as primary phones. haven't heard too many complaints yet Jul 25 22:30:03 but they haven't tried the ASU Jul 25 22:30:26 Yanroy: Well I read this morning that the ASU will resume sound from suspend and that would be nice to have. Jul 25 22:30:27 Centaur5: but even if it fails, you can always restore the 2007.2 image, right? Jul 25 22:30:55 Yanroy: Yeah, I just don't want to put a whole lot of effort into going back and forth. :) Jul 25 22:31:07 When you guys have SIMs that don't work, do you mean that they don't register to the network at all? or do some only partially work? Jul 25 22:31:33 all i have got is "Registering" Jul 25 22:31:38 Centaur5: I've been really impressed at how easy this is... the wiki is really only confusing in that it tells you to do stuff, but not WHY to do them or what tradeoffs you're making at each step... hence all my questions Jul 25 22:31:56 oh, and the wrong file names on the images page... maybe I'll update that. but someone said there's build probems, so maybe it's not actually wrong Jul 25 22:32:24 like the video of the sim install? Jul 25 22:32:30 linuxxee: I get registered to a tower no problem, and can access the SIM data, but I can't make calls or receive SMS' Jul 25 22:32:45 at$t? Jul 25 22:32:47 Yanroy: Do you know what the difference is with the openmoko-devel-image and the openmoko-qtopia-x11-image? Which did you choose? Jul 25 22:33:02 linuxxee: no, Rogers (Canada) Jul 25 22:33:03 one is GTK, one is ASU Jul 25 22:33:05 Centaur5: well, I think the former is 2007.2 and the latter is the ASU Jul 25 22:33:14 Centaur5: I'm trying out the ASU right now Jul 25 22:33:16 one sucks, one sucks less Jul 25 22:33:37 eh, if I wanted a shiny toy, I'd have bought an iphone... but instead I wanted a tool Jul 25 22:33:50 Candaian, eh? Jul 25 22:34:27 so i guess i go to the att retail shop tomorrow Jul 25 22:34:34 Yanroy: Alright, I have it on the way then. Do you have to choose the uboot for the manufacturer version of the phone or just the larger one that I assume has all? Jul 25 22:34:38 Chocky: if you were talking to me, then no... USA. I mean "eh" as in "meh", not "ay" like the canadians :) Jul 25 22:34:45 Chocky: yep, land of the ISP and wireless monopolies and consumer pain Jul 25 22:34:53 :p Jul 25 22:35:05 Toaster`_: both US and Canada Jul 25 22:35:30 Chocky: true. But it's colder here ;) Jul 25 22:35:36 Centaur5: good question... especially since I don't see any v6 uboots on there, and AFAIK all shipped FRs are v6 Jul 25 22:35:44 v5 Jul 25 22:35:53 then what's v6? Jul 25 22:35:56 Yanroy: Which one did you update then? Jul 25 22:35:57 I've heard of people getting it to work, or at least the 1973. I just can't send data through the network Jul 25 22:35:59 nothing, yet Jul 25 22:36:09 Centaur5: I decided not to update uboot. I did kernel and rootfs Jul 25 22:36:29 Centaur5: it seems you can do them all independently, so I'll go back and do uboot at a later date Jul 25 22:36:30 yay Jul 25 22:37:14 the phone does charge while off, despite not giving any indication, right? Jul 25 22:37:39 i hope Jul 25 22:37:40 Yanroy: By the way, I chose not to have an iphone cause apple likes to get you in proprietary lock in then shove pineapples up your butt for pleasure. :) Jul 25 22:38:00 hehe Jul 25 22:38:05 apart from it costing a fortune Jul 25 22:39:33 so is there a chance since theres bad soldering on the gps port that its safe to say that threr could be bad soldering elsewhere an a closer inspection is necessary? Jul 25 22:39:47 there's no reason to suspect that Jul 25 22:39:58 explain Jul 25 22:39:59 linuxxee: one of my friends had his aux button pop off the board Jul 25 22:40:09 he hasn't resoldered it yet... trying to get openmoko to cover it for him Jul 25 22:40:12 any native german speakers around ? Jul 25 22:40:17 nothing to explain, unless you're looking for paranoid reasons to be worried Jul 25 22:40:21 Yanroy: Well I just downloaded the new image files and I'll have to debate doing that tomorrow. Jul 25 22:40:31 paranoid Hell Jul 25 22:40:43 Centaur5: I'm booting it now... Jul 25 22:41:09 chocky u are a little hmmmm wrong Jul 25 22:41:36 heh... I like the boots Jul 25 22:42:35 Yanroy: From what I've read I understand the ASU has a qwerty keyboard by default that is better than the one you install on 2007.2? Jul 25 22:42:58 Centaur5: I don't know yet... just got to the home screen. it looks nice :) Jul 25 22:43:19 Yanroy: Oh come on! I can't wait for the goodness! :) Jul 25 22:43:37 wow, it's slow... Jul 25 22:43:40 Centaur5: well, it *did* but someone disabled the qwerty button in favor of some 'automatic' stuff Jul 25 22:43:58 Centaur5: ...which doesn't work nearly so well, IMHO Jul 25 22:43:59 pjz: Automatic? It reads your mind? Jul 25 22:44:00 at least it reads my SIM Jul 25 22:44:03 uhm Jul 25 22:44:07 ERROR: Unable to parse conf/bitbake.conf (conf/bitbake.conf:312: unparsed line: 'export PATH') Jul 25 22:44:18 when using bitbake + openembedded Jul 25 22:44:27 Sargun: MokoMakefile ? Jul 25 22:44:49 I can't figure out how to type in the messages app... is that the magic keyboard not working right? Jul 25 22:45:02 Centaur5: well, it's supposed to 'automatically' pop up whenever you need to do text entry. It fails to do so a lot. And now there's no button to force it to do so. Jul 25 22:45:14 Yanroy: Well it's supposed to be automatic, maybe you're not thinking clear enough. :) Jul 25 22:45:16 Yanroy: try touching the entry area Jul 25 22:45:27 I have. I have a blinking cursor, no keyboard Jul 25 22:45:38 Yanroy: yah, so, well... fail. Jul 25 22:45:42 pjz: Oh, so there's no manual app like the 2007.2 to enable it? Jul 25 22:45:53 hmm... guess I'll go read that thread about adding the button to manually use the keyboard... Jul 25 22:46:02 Centaur5: I think someone posted a qwerty-reenable-button hack to the list somewhere Jul 25 22:46:33 Someone should start a wikipage on 'how to keep ASU day-to-day usable' Jul 25 22:46:33 pjz: Alright, I'll research that before doing the update. Jul 25 22:46:46 * pjz is flashing over to qtopia right now Jul 25 22:47:01 Yanroy: How does the rest look? Any new stuff? Jul 25 22:47:32 * Skorzen brb Jul 25 22:47:44 Centaur5: it's a much cleaner look... pretty much white text on a black background (but all nicely true type, not like a console) Jul 25 22:47:51 any native german speakers around ? Jul 25 22:48:01 Centaur5: all the apps are new, AFAICT Jul 25 22:48:06 CVirus: . Jul 25 22:48:31 Ganneff: can I ask a couple of questions in private ? Jul 25 22:48:55 i dont know if you can. but try it, then i tell you. :) Jul 25 22:49:30 Are they working on having the dialer and sms app parse quotations and dashes from a contact phone number entry? Jul 25 22:50:04 I need to eat some food and play with the ASU... thank you all very much for your help Jul 25 22:50:07 I'm sure I'll be back Jul 25 22:50:08 ;) Jul 25 22:50:17 Yanroy: I think I'll do it tomorrow if I have time. Jul 25 22:50:30 Yanroy: Thanks for your questions. Jul 25 22:50:35 Centaur5: good luck. it seems really straight forward. alsos seems like it works well Jul 25 22:54:05 yo yo yo Jul 25 22:54:09 d. Jul 25 22:55:24 * araujo checks store again Jul 25 22:55:41 goodluckwiththat Jul 25 22:56:39 if I'm running qtopia, should I ever do an opkg update/upgrade? Jul 25 22:56:45 yes. Jul 25 22:56:58 yes. Jul 25 22:57:01 it won't trash qtopia? Jul 25 22:57:05 No Jul 25 22:57:11 any upgrade might trash anything ;-) Jul 25 22:57:16 anyway, it's trash already :o Jul 25 22:57:25 Also there's supposedly a qtopia repo now Jul 25 22:57:30 yes Jul 25 22:57:30 feh, at least it has a keyboard that works by default Jul 25 22:57:31 but chocky says it's bad news Jul 25 22:57:40 and I am inclined to believe his skepticism. Jul 25 22:58:04 Dave: is that a way to avoid relying on your own first hand experience ;-) Jul 25 22:58:13 maybe :P Jul 25 22:58:26 that and, gooooooooooo chocky! Jul 25 22:58:33 go team criticism! Jul 25 22:58:42 sir, yessir! Jul 25 22:59:38 good evening! ^^ Jul 25 23:00:37 any news on the G3-SIM-issue? Jul 25 23:00:51 hello all you nice ppl :) We are noooobs.. :P We've just got our freerunner, and now we're interested in getting the neo working :D Jul 25 23:01:10 Bubbi: getting started guide on the wiki. Jul 25 23:01:21 Any developers here? When trying $ om-conf myapp # I'm getting: Jul 25 23:01:22 Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found Jul 25 23:01:22 Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found Jul 25 23:01:39 Any idea how to do --install-missing or ignore with om-conf? Jul 25 23:01:41 Have any of you got any good advice to how the USB can get working.. We've read the getting started guide and something must have slipped our eyes.. please enlighten us Jul 25 23:01:58 Bubbi: not if you don't tell us any details, no. Jul 25 23:02:05 Bubbi: try this perhaps: http://hackepedia.org/?title=Neo_freerunner#USB_Networking_on_Ubuntu Jul 25 23:02:20 cannot format sd card with mkfs.vfat. it says Illegal instruction Jul 25 23:02:34 please don't refer to random information not on the FR wiki. Jul 25 23:02:51 mmontour: hm, saw that easier this week from someone here. Jul 25 23:02:58 er, mmaestri Jul 25 23:03:13 anyone has the ipk with a working mkfs.vfat ? Jul 25 23:03:28 I forget who had a fixed mkfs.vfat Jul 25 23:03:31 We need to connect, from ubuntu, to the neo, and since we can't really use VI to edit a couple of files (no esc key on the neo!) it's quite difficult Jul 25 23:03:37 i've installed dosfstools from the angstrom unstable Jul 25 23:03:43 Bubbi: opkg install nano Jul 25 23:03:46 but that thing happens Jul 25 23:03:55 Bubbi: but you can ssh in Jul 25 23:04:01 Bubbi: the Getting Started on the openmoko wiki is great, it has ubuntu-specific info Jul 25 23:04:32 Chocky: we want to use SSH, but we need to be able to connect the phone to ubuntu, and we can't really get that working Jul 25 23:04:53 Bubbi: again, I'm not going to guess, you need to say _exactly_ what doesn't work Jul 25 23:05:04 what doesn't work about the ssh connection? Jul 25 23:05:07 Bubbi: the only thing you should have to vi is /etc/network/interfaces on Ubuntu, nothing on the NF Jul 25 23:05:09 i thought additional freerunners were expected to be on sale today, did i miss them or something? Jul 25 23:05:15 Bubbi: try ifdown usb0 and ifup usb0 Jul 25 23:05:33 never mind. people have "better" advice than me. I won't fight over the noise. Jul 25 23:05:44 * Chocky facepalms Dave Jul 25 23:06:12 ...fixed mkfs.vfat anyone? Jul 25 23:06:14 hmmm. flashing a tgz file doesnt work Jul 25 23:06:28 lpotter: uh oh, another one ;-) Jul 25 23:07:06 oh well :P we're just gonna try all your great advices.. Jul 25 23:07:35 Bubbi: not much has been given, since we still don't know what your problem is Jul 25 23:07:37 Bubbi: the steps on hackepedia didn't work? Jul 25 23:07:56 Yashy: stop spamming us with the hackepedia stuff. The information should be on the OM wiki Jul 25 23:08:18 lpotter: you don't flash a tgz file Jul 25 23:08:27 follow the steps on the wiki Jul 25 23:08:29 i did Jul 25 23:08:32 heh Jul 25 23:08:50 yes, i am well aware of the flashing procedure Jul 25 23:08:50 well...you shouldn't... Jul 25 23:08:58 i know that Jul 25 23:09:01 mmaestri: at worst, you could grap the armel debian package for mkfs.vfat Jul 25 23:09:29 Chocky: I'll try that Jul 25 23:09:56 shouldnt cat /dev/random > /dev/ts either, but I have done that Jul 25 23:10:32 * SpeedEvil wishes that worked. Jul 25 23:10:39 touch feedback'd be nice. Jul 25 23:12:07 hmm? Jul 25 23:12:14 it's lpotter! Jul 25 23:12:39 get 'im! Jul 25 23:13:03 yeah, you better, leinir... :p Jul 25 23:13:23 * Dave tosses tortellini at leinir Jul 25 23:13:27 * leinirAWAY purrrs and curls up around Dave's feet, in best cat-style, and watches him fall over ;) Jul 25 23:13:58 niklauz, yeah Jul 25 23:14:13 niklauz, shipment scheduled for today ... nothing on store yet Jul 25 23:14:21 bitch :P Jul 25 23:14:34 Any good URLs for compiling applications for the NF? Jul 25 23:14:36 So i'm told ;) Jul 25 23:14:40 (and now i sleep) Jul 25 23:15:02 truste Jul 25 23:16:21 Yashy: i'm still working on the steps on the hackepedia :) so have patience :D Jul 25 23:16:48 Chocky: it didn't complained, so I assume it worked Jul 25 23:16:50 yeah, I mean, just _ignore_ the actuall OpenMoko wiki. Jul 25 23:16:56 -l Jul 25 23:18:10 and now I'm sure it worked...:p Jul 25 23:18:32 Bubbi: no worries, let us know how it goes. Jul 25 23:19:00 hmm it wasnt /dev/ts, it was /dev/fb :D Jul 25 23:19:37 don't ignore the openmoko wiki, FIX IT! Jul 25 23:19:41 Yashy: so, this is fantastic. Tell him to ignoring the OM wiki, without knowing _at all_ why what he is doing is wrong, purely to try and get people to use random information you made. Jul 25 23:21:25 good night and thanks for the help Jul 25 23:22:08 Good night everyone... Jul 25 23:22:10 *waves* Jul 25 23:22:24 araujo: o ok thx, do you have any idea how soon it will be purchasable via the website? Jul 25 23:22:28 rivalarrival: I don't ignore the openmoko wiki, I've contributed a lot to it, even though it gains me nothing. Jul 25 23:22:39 whoosh! Jul 25 23:24:01 If OpenMoko want to hire me to do their documentation I'll send them my CV. Jul 25 23:24:24 so your attitude is to point them at _another_ wiki, which has unvetted information? Jul 25 23:24:28 niklauz, no idea ... I keep checking :-] Jul 25 23:24:38 Yashy: send em your CV :p Jul 25 23:24:39 can't hurt Jul 25 23:24:47 _without_ even knowing what the problem is? Jul 25 23:26:02 kelvie_work: OK I won't send them my CV, but I will sign a mutually agreed upon contract :) Jul 25 23:26:09 I agree that the USB networking page is full of trash, but none of this justifies your actions Jul 25 23:26:24 kelvie_work: Most of the GTA02 WLAN page was me... Jul 25 23:26:33 the USB networking page was perfect for me Jul 25 23:26:42 hmm, I seem to have crashed qtopia Jul 25 23:27:03 having just reviewed it, there's lots of redundant information, and clearly incomplete parts Jul 25 23:27:17 stuff written in first person, and things that just shouldn't be there Jul 25 23:28:02 anyone else have the tendency to hold the phone upside down because it's top heavy? Jul 25 23:28:38 Yashy: that's cool Jul 25 23:28:46 pjz: ummm, no?!? :) Jul 25 23:28:51 there's a Ubuntu bit then a Debian bit for hotplugging, which are subtley different for no reason at all Jul 25 23:29:23 fuzzyt: I'm willing to believe it's just me :) Jul 25 23:29:33 pjz: but there might be something on the wiki... ;) Jul 25 23:29:38 Yashy: small problem here.. The hackepedia.org article was a bit confusing, remember i'm pretty new to this thing :) the "cat /etc/network/interfaces".. I should enter that in the ubuntu terminal, correct..? It just gives me the file content, containing this "auto lo" and "iface lo inet loopback" Jul 25 23:29:55 Bubbi: like I said, please avoid unvetted material. Jul 25 23:30:09 since that seems to be the debate today. Jul 25 23:30:19 Chocky: In what manner do you mean..+ unvetted material..? Jul 25 23:30:29 Bubbi: When you run "cat /etc/network/interfaces" it should look the same in your file. You might prefer to use "vi" to edit instead. Jul 25 23:30:35 that is a random wiki, which Yashy is trying to push cos he made it. Use the OM wiki, please Jul 25 23:31:34 Yashy: alright. Jul 25 23:31:37 Bubbi: I have Chocky on ignore, but I assume he is referring to the wiki that is currently easier to follow. Ask him who has vetted the wiki he prefers on this subject :) Jul 25 23:31:50 Actually don't, then you're playing into his trolling. Jul 25 23:32:18 Bubbi: he is ignoring me because I have corrected several mistakes he has made. The bottom line is, that if you follow his wiki, no one else here will be able to help you. Jul 25 23:32:26 but it's your choice. Jul 25 23:32:31 I've said enough. Jul 25 23:37:01 yibii bubble-keyboard is out ;) Jul 25 23:37:04 https://www.bitbakery.org/trac/bubble-keyboard Jul 25 23:37:20 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/1777a9d7d18c71c4a8fac876e7bbfc04.png Jul 25 23:37:31 Well.. i'm "giving up" for now. I'll take a look at it tomorrow. Maybe all I need is a couple of fresh eyes on it tomorrow.. :D Jul 25 23:37:48 Bubbi: we still don't know what your problem was. Jul 25 23:38:39 It was that I wanted to connect the neo to ubuntu through the usb0 interface, which keep giving me a timeout.. as if there is no connection to the neo Jul 25 23:38:54 yes, we never had any details Jul 25 23:38:55 Bubbi: That sucks :( I updated the page so it might be easier to understand, lemme know what your issues are and I'll see if I can help. Jul 25 23:39:13 Chocky: that was it.. that WAS the details.. :D Jul 25 23:39:24 I think not, somehow Jul 25 23:39:34 I would have walked you through it. Jul 25 23:39:48 Bubbi: If you run the commands in the "If that worked," section, do you see the same results? Jul 25 23:40:33 Chocky and Yashy: don't think about it any more.. :) I'm going to bed now.. it' salmost 2 am and i'm definitely tired right now.. :D Jul 25 23:41:09 wow, Chocky was being helpful? :) Jul 25 23:41:13 (my own little troll) Jul 25 23:41:19 no worries, cheers! Jul 25 23:41:19 sad, pathetic, little man Jul 25 23:41:33 Can anyone help me with my little problem? Jul 25 23:41:54 johncylee: yeah, I'll just point you to a random wiki with unhelpful information :o Jul 25 23:41:58 we, johngay Jul 25 23:42:00 er Jul 25 23:42:33 I'm about $300 short of being able to afford a FreeRunner right now. Jul 25 23:42:41 work as a stripper. Jul 25 23:42:50 deliver pizza. Jul 25 23:42:55 um. Jul 25 23:43:02 use a credit card. Jul 25 23:44:25 I'm about 100 pounds too heavy and the wrong sex for #1 and I don't have any credit history. But I tried #2 about 20 years ago in Hawaii. That was quite fun. Might give that another whirl. Jul 25 23:44:55 gay stripper in Reno Jul 25 23:45:20 Anyone have a good URL for compiling applications for the NF? Jul 25 23:45:34 Yashy: not on your wiki? aw, shame. Jul 25 23:45:37 Suppose I could go down to Miami. I hear there into that sort of thing. Jul 25 23:45:53 I tried http://andreasdalsgaard.blogspot.com/ but it seems to be specific to applications already in the tree Jul 25 23:46:47 the openmoko wiki pages on the matter need some serious work Jul 25 23:47:06 johngay: so, was there some question? Jul 25 23:48:09 Try http://cross-lfs.org/ Yashy Jul 25 23:49:16 Chocky, sorry, but being $300 short is my current problem. Just thought I'd throw that out and see if anyone wanted to make a donation (= Jul 25 23:51:17 johngay: doesn't appear to support the proper hardware? Jul 25 23:51:31 http://cross-lfs.org/view/1.0.0/ Jul 25 23:52:21 If someone writes a simple to follow page on the steps, I will use it :) Jul 25 23:57:39 http://cross-lfs.org/view/clfs-embedded/ should contain enough info for building your own. Just apply your guru skills to mould to your needs. Jul 26 00:00:11 I'm trying to compile applications, not rebuild an OS :) Jul 26 00:00:54 No need to build the O/S, just the cross-compile toolchain. Jul 26 00:01:47 I'd like to use MokoMakefile and om-conf if I can find some docs on them Jul 26 00:02:11 I'm trying to use om-conf, but I can't find any docs on it and it's erroring out Jul 26 00:17:09 this is going to take some time, but I've started on a USB networking rewrite: Jul 26 00:17:14 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking_Rewrite Jul 26 00:17:18 bbl. Jul 26 00:18:59 Nice to see someone is updating the proper wiki's rather than creating random ones. Jul 26 00:47:24 * kd8ikt is mad at suspend Jul 26 00:48:10 *phew* net on 13x11 wrapping Jul 26 01:01:28 hi, out of curriousity, has anyone gotten a june 25th shipment of the freerunner? Jul 26 01:01:55 mine's being shipped on 29th Jul 26 01:02:16 well, it will be in the uk for that time Jul 26 01:02:22 and to me at about 1st Jul 26 01:02:57 ajbrun: cool. I want one, but no distributor here. Jul 26 01:03:05 where's here? Jul 26 01:03:11 taipei Jul 26 01:03:26 :) Jul 26 01:03:44 maybe ebay? Jul 26 01:03:47 not looked though Jul 26 01:04:31 yipes...wouldnt want one second hand. Jul 26 01:05:08 is there a reason that resolv.conf gets overwritten on boot? shouldn't it just leave it alone? Jul 26 01:06:04 Are you using DHCP? Jul 26 01:06:11 slurpster, yepp Jul 26 01:06:15 slurpster Jul 26 01:06:16 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OpenMoko-FreeRunner-mobile-phone-NEW-European-model_W0QQitemZ180269110097QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180269110097&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318 Jul 26 01:06:25 don't know if it's the euro version you need or not Jul 26 01:06:34 johngay: umm... I guess? I'm just using the USB cable Jul 26 01:06:35 and it's a bit more expensive than normal Jul 26 01:06:38 but they're new Jul 26 01:08:18 hmmm....interesting. Jul 26 01:08:28 Don't know how the USB netoworking is set up, but I know that DHCP 'can' retrieve nameservers and create resolv.conf automatically so that might be the problem. Jul 26 01:08:28 just saw the web page. Jul 26 01:08:49 johngay: the ifup script echoes an IP to the resolv.conf :P Jul 26 01:09:03 Its strange that the office is in Taipei but I have to buy from a Euro Distributor. :( Jul 26 01:09:33 slurpster: I was under the impression a few ppl had picked them up directly Jul 26 01:10:30 That was in california. But if you ask the right people nicely, they might let you pick-up in Taipei? Jul 26 01:11:06 hmmm...does anyone know who the right people are? Jul 26 01:13:13 actually, I'm trying to apply for a job in the taipei office...does anyone know if they are still hiring? Jul 26 01:13:25 Steve or Mike on the M/L are the first two names that come to mind. Jul 26 01:13:45 what is M/L? Jul 26 01:14:09 I think they've got some jobs listed on http://www.openmoko.com Jul 26 01:14:19 does the freerunner support charging over usb? Jul 26 01:14:21 M/L == mailing list. Jul 26 01:14:31 ronny: yes Jul 26 01:14:56 Isn't that the only way to charge it? Jul 26 01:15:11 there's the wall plug, but it's still a USB connector Jul 26 01:15:12 johngay: i meant as in usb from the pc Jul 26 01:15:16 johngay, yeah...I emailed my resume and cover letter and also called by phone but apparently the managers are busy right now Jul 26 01:15:58 hmm, it wont boot atm Jul 26 01:16:16 johngay....silly question, but which M/L are you talking about? Jul 26 01:16:24 i tihnk i need to charge it using the wallplug, but that kills all ssh-acess i have atm :( Jul 26 01:17:00 community is the only one I really follow, but I've seen both of them there many times. Jul 26 01:17:05 I flashed my FR this afternoon with the kernel from today and rootfs from the 22nd... I just ran opkg upgrade on a whim and it's finding lots of stuf... is that normal, or is it about to do something terrible? Jul 26 01:18:15 I don't think the FR can tell the difference between a PC's USB port or a wallplug USB charger. As long as it sees charging current, it should charge. Jul 26 01:18:31 hmm, why the heck wont it boot :( Jul 26 01:18:47 you're not saying the magic words Jul 26 01:18:59 it shows the initial openmoko splash, then shuts down before showing kernel-messages Jul 26 01:19:32 Not enough charge in the battery. It can't run directly off the charger, AFAIK. Jul 26 01:19:52 hmm, it does run as soon as i put it on the wallplug Jul 26 01:20:05 so normal usb just aint enough Jul 26 01:20:17 is ther a way to ssh over bluetooth Jul 26 01:20:26 hmm, unhappy yet again :( Jul 26 01:20:56 I think the PC's USB port doesn't supply as much current as some wall chargers. Jul 26 01:21:42 is there a way to do bluetooth ssh ? Jul 26 01:21:55 i cant use the usb net while charging Jul 26 01:22:08 and wifi aint yet set up Jul 26 01:23:22 johngay, thanks. Jul 26 01:23:29 ronny, it is possible, yes ... but it would be a bitch to setup Jul 26 01:23:49 i'm sure the wiki tells you how though Jul 26 01:24:17 johngay, and yeah, the phone can tell the difference between a pc and a wall charger Jul 26 01:25:05 usb says that only 100mA is provided, unless more is negotiated -- 100mA cannot power the phone (as i understand it, it needs somewhere around 300mA), but the 100mA will be used to more slowly reduce the battery Jul 26 01:25:13 omfg it would help if there was any docs on how a suspend in issued (lock) or the proccess that takes place Jul 26 01:25:37 the usb port can negotiate the connection with the computer, if it supports it, to 500mA (part of the USB spec) -- just about every computer should support this Jul 26 01:25:53 Well, some wall chargers, but I was talking about as a general source of charging. I know that some wall chargers can supply more that the USB standard and the FR can detect some of those. Jul 26 01:26:01 for the phone to get 1A over the wall charger, there's a capacitor on one of the grounds that the phone detects and just pulls 1A from Jul 26 01:26:34 has anyone had problems with the sms'es not sending sometimes? i hit the button and it doesn't do anything. sometimes it works fine though Jul 26 01:26:40 there's a very lengthy post somewhere on openmoko's site about htis Jul 26 01:26:49 is there a tutorial anywhere for installing the ASU keyboard? I have no text input capability right now... Jul 26 01:27:00 any german native speakers around ? Jul 26 01:27:08 someone go port the oregon trail to the phone now Jul 26 01:27:37 CVirus: yeah Jul 26 01:27:59 ronny: Ich will viel schlafen == I want to sleep alot ? Jul 26 01:28:06 the verb will is correct here ? Jul 26 01:28:21 yes, it is Jul 26 01:28:37 Tanuva: danke Jul 26 01:28:44 :) Jul 26 01:29:08 your english is incorrect though :P Jul 26 01:29:12 "a lot" ;) Jul 26 01:29:40 currious, is anyone here from the Taipei office? Jul 26 01:29:43 hehe Jul 26 01:30:28 is ASU's qtopia using QT3 or 4 ? Jul 26 01:31:38 wtf? Jul 26 01:31:50 my fr did shut down itself again Jul 26 01:32:03 suspend? Jul 26 01:32:08 oh Jul 26 01:32:14 does the ASU suspend? Jul 26 01:32:20 it doesn't seem to, despite what the setting is on the power menu Jul 26 01:32:22 yeah Jul 26 01:32:27 i know suspend is pissing me off cause i dont know wtf its doing Jul 26 01:32:28 mine suspended Jul 26 01:33:11 and it likes to wakeup if left for over 5-10 min with a bright white screen that cant be fixed Jul 26 01:33:28 i hate how unstable everything is Jul 26 01:33:59 i cant reach my moko over bluetooth Jul 26 01:34:15 is there any sensible way to set up wpa_supplicant ? Jul 26 01:37:12 is arm big or little endian? Jul 26 01:38:04 damn Jul 26 01:38:25 diabling wifi also diabled my power/back button Jul 26 01:38:38 and the sound is off again Jul 26 01:41:05 is there any sensible way to supply packages via sdcard? Jul 26 01:42:05 who "owns" the wiki, if anybody? Jul 26 01:42:21 (ie who is the head maintainer) Jul 26 01:45:05 I just installed the matchbox keyboard on the ASU and it seems very unhappy... am I not supposed to do that? Jul 26 01:46:39 this is too useless.. I think I'm going back to the GTK stack Jul 26 01:46:58 is there a way to make the GTK stack read the contacts on my SIM? Jul 26 01:50:37 hmm, the why openmoko is best page looks sarcastic Jul 26 01:51:06 given how messy the software stack still is Jul 26 01:51:09 ieatlint: big-endian for arm Jul 26 01:51:23 thx Jul 26 01:51:39 ieatlint: i think pretty much everything but intel is big-endian Jul 26 01:51:50 intel x86 that is Jul 26 01:53:08 i hope stuff like llvm, cli and java makes us independ of cpu architecture soon enough Jul 26 01:53:19 its no fun that everything seems to get crappy x86's Jul 26 01:53:54 creating everything in an interpreter to get around it won't be a good solution Jul 26 01:54:00 ronny: two problems... using a VM just means you're substituting a virtual architecture for a real one... you're still not independent. #2: you can't write an operating system in a VM Jul 26 01:55:09 does anyone know of a way to make the 2007.2 image read contacts of a SIM card? Jul 26 01:55:29 Yanroy: you can do late-binary translation, and you can write >99% of an os for llvm (the rest is weird cpu-reg stuff and restricted instructuions) Jul 26 01:56:42 "it's like transmeta ... but not wed to hardware" Jul 26 01:56:47 my dns is slow. how do i fix it? Jul 26 01:56:58 i can ping 64.233.187.99 but not google.com Jul 26 01:57:09 wow i just did an echotest and i sound like crap Jul 26 01:57:10 gmaxwell: kinda, its also updatable Jul 26 01:57:23 ozzloy: sounds like you need to fix /etc/resolv.conf Jul 26 01:57:55 ronny, the transmeta had fully updatable microcode.. ::shrugs:: Jul 26 02:00:23 hmm... I found a python script on the wiki that claims to import contacts from the SIM card into the GTK stack, but that isn't quite what I had in mind Jul 26 02:00:36 the first time I booted my FR, it loaded the contacts fine. subsequent times it did not. what gives? Jul 26 02:01:06 well, I shouldn't say "fine"... many of them had a few letters missing from the ends of their names Jul 26 02:01:15 interesting. i fixed /etc/resolv.conf by hand, but when i ran udhcpc, it reverted to the old dns servers Jul 26 02:01:31 ozzloy: I think dhcp does that by design Jul 26 02:01:32 ozzloy: Yeah, it does that. :-) Jul 26 02:01:42 how might i fix that? Jul 26 02:02:03 well, dhcp is supposed to handle assigning IP address, gateway, DNS, etc for you... it's doing its job Jul 26 02:02:21 interesting. so the dhcp server is messed up? Jul 26 02:02:29 ozzloy Probably not... Jul 26 02:02:33 Try "route" Jul 26 02:02:54 You're trying to setup wifi? Jul 26 02:03:01 yeah Jul 26 02:03:05 my wifi is connected Jul 26 02:03:08 i can ping stuff Jul 26 02:03:09 is there a networkmanager app yet? Jul 26 02:03:22 I noticed the ASU has "campwifi", but it does't seem to do anything Jul 26 02:03:40 running opkg update seems to dl the .gz and not the .sigs which is normal i've read Jul 26 02:03:48 because there are no .sigz Jul 26 02:03:51 ozzloy: Look at the "default" routes. Jul 26 02:04:13 rivalarrival: default 192.168.0.200 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0 Jul 26 02:05:15 I think you need a default route for eth0 too. Jul 26 02:05:18 or instead Jul 26 02:05:55 is there anyone working on a networkmanager-like app for the FR? Jul 26 02:06:00 I could just be pulling these things out of my ass... I'm not feeling all that hot this evening. Jul 26 02:06:52 Yanroy: I think ieatlint and/or kd8ikt were playing with something a couple days ago... I haven't kept track, though. Jul 26 02:07:10 ok i'll look at how to do that Jul 26 02:07:42 yeah, i'm allegedly writing a wifi gui Jul 26 02:08:31 ozzloy: on your main machine, man route Jul 26 02:09:03 rivalarrival: heh, exactly what i did Jul 26 02:09:16 rivalarrival: is there any place (wiki?) I can go to find out who's working on what and perhaps find a task I should do to contribute? Jul 26 02:09:28 ieatlint: for the ASU, or GTK? Jul 26 02:09:30 my secret is i have a hidden room full of chinese people that i force to write code Jul 26 02:09:34 rivalarrival: then google because the manpage is more of a reference than a tutorial Jul 26 02:09:35 has anyone had problems with the sms'es not sending sometimes? i hit the button and it doesn't do anything. sometimes it works fine though Jul 26 02:09:57 pygtk right now Jul 26 02:10:03 ozzloy: the bottom of the page has several examples... I'm looking for what you need Jul 26 02:10:05 if it gets popular, i'll port it to gtk Jul 26 02:10:27 c/gtk, that is Jul 26 02:10:29 ieatlint: I'm just asking if it will be part of the 2007.2 image. I'm running the ASU right now and I'm about to switch back... it's way too raw Jul 26 02:10:48 well i'm developing it on the 2007.2 image Jul 26 02:11:00 also, what's the procedure for submitting patches/apps to the main images? Jul 26 02:11:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Lint-wifi Jul 26 02:11:35 don't ask me, i've absolutely no inside info/control/influence/participation/etc with the images Jul 26 02:13:30 Trevi: Jul 26 02:13:31 ozzloy: "route add default gw " Jul 26 02:13:34 http://pastebin.org/57186 what's this? Jul 26 02:13:36 argh Jul 26 02:13:37 there are some things i really don't like about the 2007.2 and asu images... like i really think that acpi should be supported Jul 26 02:13:40 rivalarrival: thanks Jul 26 02:13:42 ieatlint: that looks really nice Jul 26 02:13:51 ronny? Jul 26 02:13:55 ieatlint: it's not? how do we do power management? Jul 26 02:14:09 apm Jul 26 02:14:12 legacy Jul 26 02:14:14 err... Jul 26 02:14:21 that's been dead for like a decade Jul 26 02:14:23 ozzloy: I think... Jul 26 02:14:33 :) Jul 26 02:14:34 yep Jul 26 02:14:52 that's probably more of a hardware change than a software one Jul 26 02:15:05 plus, pulseaudio is crap methinks Jul 26 02:15:27 rivalarrival: heh Jul 26 02:15:59 Trevinho: sorry, tab-complete-error Jul 26 02:16:05 ah, ok ;) Jul 26 02:16:12 I think that what you've been pinging has been routed through the USB interface, so wifi hasn't been working at all. Jul 26 02:16:26 rivalarrival: no that pretty much messed up my situation Jul 26 02:16:55 ? Jul 26 02:17:08 rivalarrival: though i was able to fix it by route del default gw 10.1.0.1 Jul 26 02:17:29 I'm having trouble finding the URL to the images for the dailies of 2007.2... anyone know what it is? also, I thought it was linked on the getting started page, but it seems I'm wrong... Jul 26 02:17:46 ozzloy: Wait a sec... Jul 26 02:18:12 mooh Jul 26 02:18:19 http://pastebin.org/57186 can i get help with this instead? Jul 26 02:18:39 because my wireless is working for now and i want to finish my opgrade Jul 26 02:19:01 try route add -net 10.1.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 eth0 Jul 26 02:19:14 rivalarrival: kk Jul 26 02:19:52 you need some route with "eth0" at the end. Jul 26 02:20:05 route: netmask and route address conflict Jul 26 02:20:34 but i don't really care about that right now. the ncurses thing is stalling opkg upgrade Jul 26 02:20:56 alright, hold on, I know I had it working... Jul 26 02:21:15 ieatlint: is there any place I can install a daily of your wifi manager thing from? Jul 26 02:21:18 # opkg install lint-wifi Jul 26 02:21:19 An error ocurred, return value: 2. Jul 26 02:21:23 wth? Jul 26 02:21:39 ronny: I'm not sure, but experience would seem to indicate that error 2 = package not found Jul 26 02:21:41 ronny, error 2 means "that's not a known package" Jul 26 02:21:56 hmk Jul 26 02:22:16 Yanroy, the software is too unreliable to release generally at the moment Jul 26 02:22:16 then how the heck is lint-wifi named ? Jul 26 02:22:19 the difference between ASU and 2007.2 is only the rootfs, not the kernel, right? Jul 26 02:22:27 Yanroy: ish. Jul 26 02:22:30 ieatlint: they said that about the freerunner... Jul 26 02:22:32 i've only handed it out to people who can give me active feedback here on irc Jul 26 02:22:55 ieatlint: well, I can give feedback :) I might even be able to help with development, though I don't know python Jul 26 02:23:04 well, i don't feel like getting the same bug report 100 times, or people complaining about problems that actually are due to their phone or wap Jul 26 02:23:10 I'd like to become a contributing member of the community, rather than just asking questions all the time :P Jul 26 02:23:14 heh Jul 26 02:23:37 I've been waiting for this phone for over a year, ever since I decided I wanted to build my own phone from the ground up and then disocovered the openmoko guys had already done all the hard parts for me :) Jul 26 02:23:53 http://pastebin.org/57188 how do i fix this? Jul 26 02:24:53 can i just do a -force-depends ? Jul 26 02:24:59 ozzloy, no Jul 26 02:25:02 -force-overwrite Jul 26 02:25:06 but only do it for one pacakge Jul 26 02:25:08 ieatlint: is there a bug tracker? if so, I promise to check it before logging new issues :) Jul 26 02:25:20 hmm, it wont install any things any more Jul 26 02:25:28 opkg upgrade girlfriend -foce-overwrite Jul 26 02:25:31 "opkg -force-overwrite install ncurses" Jul 26 02:25:31 ;) Jul 26 02:25:34 if only Jul 26 02:25:41 ieatlint: so opkg install ncurses -force-overwrite ? Jul 26 02:25:43 no Jul 26 02:25:44 no! Jul 26 02:25:50 heh Jul 26 02:25:50 listen to chocky Jul 26 02:25:51 ok Jul 26 02:25:54 opkg -force-depends remove ncurses Jul 26 02:26:03 Yanroy, i'm too lazy to setup a trac Jul 26 02:26:08 i suppose i probably should Jul 26 02:26:08 um.. Jul 26 02:26:09 maybe not even -force-depends Jul 26 02:26:12 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/80340/ <- help? Jul 26 02:26:26 i tried opkg remove ncurses, it's depended on by lots of stuff Jul 26 02:26:31 like screen, which i'm using Jul 26 02:26:45 then use the -force-depends. the libncurses provides the dependencies instead Jul 26 02:26:47 and openmoko-terminal2 Jul 26 02:26:48 +package Jul 26 02:26:59 I will do a wiki page, but I'm presently rewriting the USB networking page Jul 26 02:27:05 and that will take some time Jul 26 02:27:09 ronny, that means for whatever reason it was unable to download the file Jul 26 02:27:12 ronny: Can you ping google.com? I was getting the same thing, thought I was online, but wasn't. Jul 26 02:27:17 opkg is unreliable.... Jul 26 02:27:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking_Rewrite Jul 26 02:27:37 ieatlint: it's not as reliable as dpkg, for sure, but it mostly works. Better than RPM, certainly :o Jul 26 02:27:39 ok, so opkg remove -force-depends ncurses, followed by opkg install libncurses? Jul 26 02:28:02 ozzloy: if this was page of opkg upgrade, you can just do that again Jul 26 02:28:06 s/page/part/ Jul 26 02:28:07 Chocky meant: ozzloy: if this was part of opkg upgrade, you can just do that again Jul 26 02:28:08 why does everyone hate RPM? it's by far the best package manager that I've used... Jul 26 02:28:20 heh neat Jul 26 02:28:27 ah, got it Jul 26 02:28:40 Yanroy: because packages with post install steps that fail still mean the package is successfully installed Jul 26 02:28:42 i like gentoo's portage myself :P Jul 26 02:28:53 plus the format is far too complex and actually not that flexible Jul 26 02:29:04 plus it's near impossible to create a custom kernel RPM Jul 26 02:29:22 that may go back to your point earlier about fedora having a huge kernel Jul 26 02:29:38 no, it doesn't have anything to do with that; that's purely configuration Jul 26 02:29:46 but, I've never had problems with RPM... apt-get just destroys my computer every time I use it. that's why I wont go near ubuntu anymore Jul 26 02:29:49 Debian kernels aren't any bigger Jul 26 02:30:03 apt-get on Fedora is really just RPM Jul 26 02:30:12 no, apt-get on ubuntu Jul 26 02:30:14 Yanroy: Really? I've never had any problem with apt-get. Jul 26 02:30:16 Yanroy: for me its the other way around Jul 26 02:30:18 although I don't know how apt-get on Ubunutu, etc could get your computer on fire Jul 26 02:30:19 I would never use apt-get on fedora Jul 26 02:30:22 russK: out of curiosity, are you in eastern washington dc? Jul 26 02:30:38 I would, it's better than yum. a lot more predictable Jul 26 02:30:41 yum is nasty Jul 26 02:30:55 I love yum... yum is the reason I love RPM Jul 26 02:31:03 yum is a wannabe apt-get Jul 26 02:31:12 and only hides problems with RPM Jul 26 02:31:15 except that it doesn't fail at dependecy resolution 90% of the time Jul 26 02:31:24 only 95% :o Jul 26 02:31:32 yum install aptitude Jul 26 02:32:07 if your implication is that apt-get fails 90% of the time, then that's clearly irrational hyperbole Jul 26 02:32:53 anyway, it's true that opkg is a tad fragile for my liking Jul 26 02:34:56 ok, i just filled out a registration form on projects.openmoko.org for lint-wifi... Jul 26 02:35:16 I just read on wikipedia that RPM v5 is supported by OpenPKG... is that the same as opkg? Jul 26 02:36:33 lol Jul 26 02:36:35 nice Jul 26 02:36:43 @ieatlint Jul 26 02:36:58 well, it's vaguely on hold until i replace wpa_cli Jul 26 02:37:20 wpa_cli is insufficient for my needs, but the wpa_supplicant control apis are complete... Jul 26 02:37:26 projects.openmoko.org uses CVS? Jul 26 02:37:28 ick Jul 26 02:37:35 you can choose cvs or svn Jul 26 02:37:38 i chose svn Jul 26 02:37:40 oh, ok Jul 26 02:37:59 has svn been ported to the FR yet? Jul 26 02:42:43 ew Jul 26 02:44:21 svn/cvs are good reasons not to use the service at all Jul 26 02:50:25 huh... I guess the newer rootfs images have the web browser, calendar, clock, etc already installed... so why doesn't it come with the real keyboard? :P Jul 26 02:50:32 ronny: you prefer git? Jul 26 02:50:42 Yanroy: hg Jul 26 02:50:48 eh, that's basically git Jul 26 02:50:53 no Jul 26 02:52:03 Yanroy: hg is not git Jul 26 02:57:45 * kd8ikt whistles amazing grace as he watches his xbox hd ascend into heaven Jul 26 02:57:48 don't be a hater Jul 26 02:57:54 be a linter Jul 26 02:58:10 don't tell me what to be Jul 26 02:58:19 merely a linty suggestion Jul 26 02:58:20 only people who have sex with me seem to have that authority... Jul 26 02:58:33 what about people who pay you for sex? Jul 26 02:58:44 hah, somehow, the newly-flashed 2007.2 can read the contacts off my SIM Jul 26 02:58:48 i'll let you know when it happens **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 26 02:59:56 2008