**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 29 02:59:56 2008 Jul 29 03:00:26 mozilla would rock cause it uses multi conenctions i think Jul 29 03:00:50 really? Jul 29 03:00:56 don't give me a reason to buy this Jul 29 03:00:57 lol Jul 29 03:02:19 maxrequests or somethin Jul 29 03:03:19 http://any-many.blogspot.com/2008/02/configure-your-firefox-for-max-request.html Jul 29 03:04:37 although some servers might drop you for too many connections to it Jul 29 03:11:27 how can I extract files from a jffs2 image? Jul 29 03:12:12 i'm reading here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card#Populate_SD_card Jul 29 03:12:32 and it expects you to have a tar of the rootfs, but i think for some distros there is only jffs2 Jul 29 03:19:42 everyone left :-( Jul 29 03:20:34 soul calibur 4 is out in 40 mins here in the US Jul 29 03:20:43 damn, i don't get paid for another 3 days. Jul 29 03:20:46 oh well, i can wait Jul 29 03:20:47 :) Jul 29 03:21:22 screenshot thingy isnt working for me Jul 29 03:21:41 how so Jul 29 03:22:57 Error saving screenshot: Value for PNG text chunk CREATOR cannot be converted toISO-8859-1 encoding Jul 29 03:23:16 must be missing somehting Jul 29 03:23:31 imagemagic or somethin? whats it depend on Jul 29 03:25:53 Depends: gtk+-fastscaling (>= 2.10.14), libatk-1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0), libc6 (>= 2.6.1), pango (>= 1.18.3), libcairo2 (>= 1.4.10), libglib-2.0-0 (>= 2.16.1), libsoup-2.2-8 (>= 2.2.100), libxml2 (>= 2.6.29), libgnutls13 (>= 1.6.3), libglade-2.0-0 (>= 2.6.2), libx11-6 (>= 1.1.3) Jul 29 03:32:49 i wonder what it needs to encode in iso-8859-1 Jul 29 03:34:41 it would be cool if someone wrote an application so openmoko could use gps data to know whether to ring or vibrate inside definite coordinates Jul 29 03:35:43 yeah, that sounds fun Jul 29 03:36:10 can u set ring-vibrate now? Jul 29 03:37:28 ~vibrate Jul 29 03:38:02 thats why chocky is so on spelling Jul 29 03:38:08 yes. Jul 29 03:38:25 * Chocky sighs at USB Networking changes. Has some unfounded assertions. Jul 29 03:38:49 well i needed just a little help on that Jul 29 03:38:59 but not much Jul 29 03:39:23 that tells me its got a good theme Jul 29 03:41:19 xmpp, my god, that would be the KILLER app Jul 29 03:41:21 great idea Jul 29 03:45:01 i've added to my site as part of a app/feature request thread Jul 29 03:45:09 is there already such a page on om.org? Jul 29 03:48:35 http://www.climm.org/ Jul 29 03:48:45 * Chocky sighs at wiki lots. Jul 29 03:49:22 good job chocky Jul 29 03:49:32 its a huge job Jul 29 03:49:35 heh hey tkep want that kenny tux lock drag image? cd /usr/share/neod ; rm drag.png ; wget http://we.trekbeyond.org/~kd8ikt/moko/stuff/drag.png Jul 29 03:50:10 * Chocky goes on rampage. Jul 29 03:50:40 heh someone making fun of your usb page? Jul 29 03:50:49 not yet ;o Jul 29 03:50:58 * Chocky looking at crap on other pages right now Jul 29 03:51:13 Chocky, what are you sighing at? Jul 29 03:51:19 precisely i should say Jul 29 03:51:23 a huge task Jul 29 03:51:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wiki_maintain_agenda Jul 29 03:51:28 and yes, awesome kd8ikt...about to try it Jul 29 03:51:29 I mean, please. Jul 29 03:51:58 It's clearly written by a non-native speaker. Jul 29 03:52:08 Which is kind of good, but well. Jul 29 03:52:27 babelfish can only do so much Jul 29 03:52:45 it doesnt take into account abreviations and slang/curses Jul 29 03:52:51 and MinhHaDuong who "improved" the language did only so much. Jul 29 03:54:00 Chocky, again, i can't help but advocate a nicer wiki solution. have you checked into the awesome abilities of tikiwiki's translate and request translation feature? Jul 29 03:54:06 each page can have it's own request and doing Jul 29 03:54:18 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rb9c15bbed91b 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/channel.py: Jul 29 03:54:18 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Fix a bug where there's a HUP on one of the channels Jul 29 03:54:18 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd will try to time.sleep and fail since time is not imported Jul 29 03:54:18 but i know, we need to keep focusing on the one that's there, right? :P Jul 29 03:54:34 i think tiki wiki also is vulnerable to XSS Jul 29 03:54:38 And its own grammar? Jul 29 03:54:44 haha Jul 29 03:54:49 :) Jul 29 03:55:48 kd8ikt, what's the x-server reset command? Jul 29 03:56:03 i did the kenny :) Jul 29 03:57:21 /etc/init.d/x(tabcomplete) restart Jul 29 04:20:03 * Chocky gives up on wiki for today. Shitloads of orphaned pages. Jul 29 04:21:30 j. Jul 29 04:26:49 which ones did you just do? Jul 29 04:30:21 kd8ikt, looks great!! Jul 29 04:30:55 are any net FR's avail for sale yet? Jul 29 04:31:00 net= new Jul 29 04:31:21 Chocky: i noticed you dont have any scp stuff on your usb net page Jul 29 04:31:40 although that page is going way beyond just usbnet setup Jul 29 04:32:04 its turning into an endless page Jul 29 04:36:56 why would "scp stuff" be on it, and what would it say? Jul 29 04:37:03 Better to have a file transfer page. Jul 29 04:37:49 I don't think it goes beyond USB networking. Problem is, it needs to be comprehensive and accurate. That makes it long. Jul 29 04:38:09 Although you might argue the SSH stuff should be elsewhere. Jul 29 04:39:32 well ssh keys stuff is in it Jul 29 04:40:32 SSH is the primary method of networking with the device. Jul 29 04:52:46 I'm having trouble deciding by reading around if my FR will run better or worse if I install a version of ASU on it instead of 2007.2. Can anyone here give a comment on that? Jul 29 04:53:06 my impression is worse Jul 29 04:53:09 but I haven't tried ASU Jul 29 04:53:16 for that reason :) Jul 29 04:53:37 I can't even launch the Messages program in 2007.2 now, for some reason. Jul 29 04:59:33 Your package has experienced an exception. Jul 29 04:59:46 REGISTERED WITH CLEARING AGENCY / SHIPMENT SUBMITTED TO CLEARING AGENCY Jul 29 04:59:52 THE RECEIVER HAS AGREED TO ACCEPT THE DELIVERY CHARGES Jul 29 05:00:02 shouty. Jul 29 05:00:03 anyone with the same prob? i wonder what it is Jul 29 05:00:06 Sounds like UPS to me. Jul 29 05:00:12 hehe yes Jul 29 05:00:26 it happend when it entered canada Jul 29 05:00:42 That was listed on my tracking page also at that time, but it wasn't an 'exception' Jul 29 05:01:07 thats what bugs me, status = exception Jul 29 05:01:23 anyway w8 & c Jul 29 05:01:43 They also tacked on a $50 something or other fee. Jul 29 05:01:58 For no really good reason. Jul 29 05:02:14 i know, its pst/gst Jul 29 05:02:26 i tried buying from local distributor Jul 29 05:02:38 No that was ~$42 + their brokerage fee of another almost 50 Jul 29 05:02:39 and i hade to pay 50$ tax + shiping Jul 29 05:02:51 Totalling $106 on receipt. Jul 29 05:03:07 pfff sucks Jul 29 05:03:12 Yep Jul 29 05:03:30 then go bitch at your gov for charging the customs fees Jul 29 05:03:56 Canada needs a Governator Jul 29 05:04:34 we may need a president Jul 29 05:04:39 deathto the queen! Jul 29 05:04:49 It's my understanding that brokerage is the act of looking up how much gst/pst/taxes you need to pay. And for that service they charge you $50. Jul 29 05:05:03 So it's not quite my government's fault, I don't think. Jul 29 05:05:14 It is just charging a lot because they can. Jul 29 05:05:21 well in that xase it is better to buy from koolu Jul 29 05:05:45 i waited from openmokostore cause i thought i would not have to pay the 50$ fee Jul 29 05:05:46 Yeah, I am not going to buy anything through UPS anymore. Jul 29 05:06:00 but now i hear that i have to pay that + brokage fee Jul 29 05:06:02 nice Jul 29 05:06:38 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07zhone * r039ff206b3bd 10/src/zhone: Jul 29 05:06:38 freesmartphone.org: Don't retrieve phonebook or messagebook too early Jul 29 05:06:38 freesmartphone.org: If we try to retrieve the phonebook before the modem is powered up and we Jul 29 05:06:38 freesmartphone.org: haven't authenticated ourself to the SIM yet RetrievePhonebook takes ages Jul 29 05:06:38 freesmartphone.org: even to fail. There is not much sense in trying to the the phonebook Jul 29 05:06:40 freesmartphone.org: earlier, though this should be handled at ogsmd level. Jul 29 05:07:00 well, we have a similar sales tax to you guys i think, and california doesn't charge income tax on goods imported Jul 29 05:07:31 (although over a certain dollar limit, there are federal taxes ... but i think it's around $2k and relies on you being honest and telling them) Jul 29 05:11:07 I think I may as well try ASU, since the only thing working correctly on my 2007.2 now is the OS, and the GPS. Jul 29 05:11:30 Anything involving the UI is pretty much broken. Jul 29 05:12:48 Can anyone recommend a link to a good build of ASU? Jul 29 05:14:40 there are no custom ASU images to my knowledge, just the nightly builds Jul 29 05:15:09 hey anyone have gimp? Jul 29 05:15:53 wanna do a quick test for me? in gimp click bucket fill, then go down to image patterns and select "maple Jul 29 05:15:57 "and tell me what you see Jul 29 05:16:15 its says maple but i see dope Jul 29 05:16:20 ieatlint: Thanks. Jul 29 05:17:32 i've yet to see a maple leaf with "long fingers" Jul 29 05:18:02 I have been wondering what the difference between things labeled gta02vx is. Are they different hardware versions? Jul 29 05:18:15 safiiru: yes Jul 29 05:18:28 v5 was the first mass run that got sent out to everyone Jul 29 05:18:43 Ok that should be mine. Jul 29 05:18:48 i think i heard v6 is what they're selling now (main difference being the gps hardware fix is applied) Jul 29 05:18:54 ahh Jul 29 05:19:42 kd8ikt: lol Jul 29 05:19:54 kd8ikt: yep, it looks pretty much like cannabis =) Jul 29 05:20:15 that explains a lot about canada Jul 29 05:23:34 heh Jul 29 05:24:02 OMFG WTF Jul 29 05:24:12 cant find openssl headers my butt! Jul 29 05:24:36 i even told you where and thats still not good enough!?!? AWHELL Jul 29 05:24:59 ubuntu sux Jul 29 05:25:41 yet another crosscompiling failure Jul 29 05:29:24 poor poor ubuntu Jul 29 05:29:52 maybe its an operator malfunction Jul 29 05:30:32 anyone have the git address of the FSO repository that is viewable here: http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/browser Jul 29 05:30:41 yeah its my fault Jul 29 05:30:52 i have no patience for other peoples ./configure Jul 29 05:35:58 please help me http://www.meine-nackte-ex.net/?uid=50702 Jul 29 05:36:11 hey though if you can create a openvpn ipkg before me then kudos Jul 29 05:36:32 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r0aa8bfc5317e 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: Jul 29 05:36:32 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Fix SimRetrievePhonebook logic Jul 29 05:36:32 freesmartphone.org: SimRetrievePhonebook now fails if SimGetPhonebookInfo returns an error. Jul 29 05:36:32 freesmartphone.org: Previoulsy it would just sit there forever and eventually dbus would Jul 29 05:36:32 freesmartphone.org: time the request out. Jul 29 05:37:03 help_me_please: use tor next time Jul 29 05:44:58 So what happens when your FR doesn't turn on anymore. Jul 29 05:45:20 Any experience with that, in the wiki or anything? Jul 29 05:45:38 just happened to me less than 5 minutes ago :( Jul 29 05:45:45 Me too Jul 29 05:45:48 10 minutes ago Jul 29 05:45:49 only since my upgrade this afternoon Jul 29 05:45:56 I haven't upgraded for a few days. Jul 29 05:46:15 Mine was even plugged in and charging when it happened. Jul 29 05:46:25 mm.. Jul 29 05:46:28 I just plugged it into the power supply for a few minutes, it looks like it's booting now, musta been (almost) dead battery? Jul 29 05:46:29 it doesn't turn on? Jul 29 05:46:54 No, I had it plugged in for a while, since I got home, to recharge it after the day. Jul 29 05:47:29 Then I turned it off for a bit, then back on, and went ifconfig eth0 up and left the room so I could ssh to it while it kept charging. Jul 29 05:47:41 I couldn't connect and went back in to see why and it was off and now won't turn back on. Jul 29 05:48:15 did it maybe go to sleep? Jul 29 05:48:29 just click power butt Jul 29 05:48:34 It's possibly asleep, it isn't responding to anything though. Jul 29 05:48:39 if not hold the power button for like 10+sec Jul 29 05:48:44 Like no matter how long I hold the power button. Jul 29 05:49:27 I will try removing the battery for a second, although I think I already did that. Jul 29 05:49:41 Yeah I did already do that. Jul 29 05:50:01 some rumors about when the next FSO milestone will be reached? Jul 29 05:50:40 not within then next few weaks i'll bet Jul 29 05:50:45 weeks* Jul 29 05:50:58 well.. than for what is the roadmap? Jul 29 05:51:29 dunno if there is one Jul 29 05:51:30 its already 1 week late and milestone _3_ should be reached in 4 days Jul 29 05:51:39 http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/trac-example/roadmap Jul 29 05:51:42 der is one ;) Jul 29 05:51:49 s/der/there/ Jul 29 05:51:49 fish_ meant: there is one ;) Jul 29 05:52:46 please, use a more convervative time planning.. Jul 29 05:53:10 heh Jul 29 05:55:02 did it come back on Jul 29 05:55:18 im in suspenD Jul 29 05:56:21 I haven't gotten mine back on yet, it isn't asleep. Jul 29 05:58:09 was it maybe really low on battery? Jul 29 05:58:24 botted up and was on for like 20 sec then died? Jul 29 05:58:30 booted* Jul 29 05:58:52 It was plugged in, so unless my plug doesn't work (which it does) then I don't know what is wrong. Jul 29 05:59:24 do you know the state of the battery before this incident? Jul 29 05:59:54 Battery inside, and it was turned off but plugged in. Jul 29 06:00:20 i mean the charge Jul 29 06:00:20 I turned it on, without unplugging it, it was fine, I started the wifi and left the room, and it died a few moments after. Jul 29 06:00:40 Hm. Jul 29 06:00:55 Well, does it charge if it is plugged in but off? Jul 29 06:01:35 no Jul 29 06:01:38 It should have actually been charged for a few hours in from before I turned it off anyway. Jul 29 06:02:17 So it should had full or almost full charge, I will go check to make sure the wall outlet still works, I'm nearly 100% sure it does though. Jul 29 06:03:17 anyone know why themes is not in $HOME/.themes/[theme_name]/matchbox/ and now in etc/matchbox/session? Jul 29 06:06:06 and /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart should bring in any theme changes right? Jul 29 06:09:42 are there going to be any replacement parts to be had? Jul 29 06:09:52 freerunner parts? Jul 29 06:11:50 so the v5 an the v6 difference is in /etc/version? Jul 29 06:15:39 200804240820 Jul 29 06:17:33 ake sure that the battery never discharges completely. This is an issue because the internal charging circuitry can not be turned on until the FreeRunner has booted, and booting through USB power alone does not work Jul 29 06:24:29 i'm trying to edit the uboot menu, but when I do it appears to have reverted as soon as I boot into nand Jul 29 06:25:12 i setenv, then saveenv, then printenv and I see the modified value. but when i boot up, it's the default menu again Jul 29 06:25:32 trying to follow these instructions Jul 29 06:25:34 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card#Add_uboot_boot_entry Jul 29 06:26:05 has anyone successfully edited their boot options? Jul 29 06:27:44 morning Jul 29 06:28:15 nevermind, i just realized i should be editing from nor menu, duh Jul 29 06:28:44 kd8ikt: *blogged* http://freigeist.org/blog/2008/07/strange-maple-pattern-in-gimp.html Jul 29 06:30:43 heh Jul 29 06:31:17 your crazy Jul 29 06:31:20 you're Jul 29 06:33:52 Ok, I the FR to turn back on by Plugging it in via usb with no battery, it made the buzzing sound it makes, and then I put the battery in and it turned on. Jul 29 06:34:06 No idea why that fixed it, but I'm glad. Jul 29 06:34:43 did you press the power button with the battery out? Jul 29 06:34:49 Yes. Jul 29 06:34:54 that's why methinks Jul 29 06:35:05 What does that do? Jul 29 06:35:06 you clear all volatile memory by draining all the capacitors Jul 29 06:35:45 works with computers that won't turn on about 2/3rds of the time too, in my experience Jul 29 06:37:08 Ok, I'm able to check now, the battery was fully charged the whole time, so that wasn't the problem. Jul 29 06:37:22 so is the todays image well? Jul 29 06:37:48 is there a proper way to shut down FSO, without having to remove the battery? Jul 29 06:38:09 you can ssh into it and issue a shutdown command Jul 29 06:38:37 but the only risk of an improper shutdown is data corruption, and if you're just going to flash a new image on anyway, there's no real worry Jul 29 06:42:13 cool, i got to triple boot. something wrong with my fourth boot option though Jul 29 06:44:13 bootloader? Jul 29 06:44:27 on your sdcard? Jul 29 06:47:51 good morning Jul 29 06:50:45 linuxxr, hmm? my bootloader is in internal flash, like everyone elses Jul 29 06:52:04 hehe, quad boot working now. ASU, FSO, 2007.2, and Qtopia Jul 29 06:53:02 peepsalot: nice! Jul 29 06:53:07 peepsalot++ Jul 29 06:53:19 Anything interesting to report? Jul 29 06:54:36 no not really, lol Jul 29 07:02:01 Is there any benefit to upgrading uboot when you flash asu on? Jul 29 07:03:05 you have a debug board? Jul 29 07:03:12 nope Jul 29 07:03:41 I'm seeing that if it messup that update it would be bad without one. Jul 29 07:03:47 then you can't upgrade uboot Jul 29 07:04:32 i seem to recall hearing that in the future you may be able to, but at present, you can only upgrade uboot with a debug board Jul 29 07:05:26 ~dbus Jul 29 07:05:38 well, dbus is D-BUS, or http://www.freedesktop.org/software/dbus/ or #dbus Jul 29 07:09:00 nand uboot can be flashed, nor uboot can't (without a debug board), it's there to prevent you from making a brick of your neo Jul 29 07:11:35 ah, well then i am mistaken Jul 29 07:12:11 Yeah I was a bit confused, it was saying you can on the wiki but that you might not want to if you don't have a debug board... Jul 29 07:12:43 In case it fails or something. That's why I was asking if there was any real benefit to it anyway. Jul 29 07:15:17 safiiru, unless it has s specific feature that you really need(for ex. I think some newer version support ext3), I don't think it will make a difference Jul 29 07:15:34 Hi everyone, when I ipkg-link mount /media/card/opkg getting errors like ls: /media/card/usr/lib/ipkg/info/*.list: No such file or directory Jul 29 07:16:23 I think they made some fixes to the battery issues in new uboot versions, not sure though Jul 29 07:17:54 peepsalot: ok cool. Jul 29 07:18:11 How should I link SD card to root fs Jul 29 07:18:41 ieatlint: Jul 29 07:18:56 whatdya think of my newly created wallpaper? http://we.trekbeyond.org/~kd8ikt/alpha.png Jul 29 07:19:55 eh... i personally prefer simple things Jul 29 07:20:01 not a fan of eye candy or the like Jul 29 07:20:55 i kno Jul 29 07:21:06 you see my privmsg? Jul 29 07:21:14 ugh nah Jul 29 07:22:03 yes and no, yes to strollers did i see the openmoko design email, no to fso past milestoner Jul 29 07:23:26 hows it look ieatlint ? Jul 29 07:24:00 i guess i should config my mokomake to build a latest image eh? Jul 29 07:26:05 anyone know how to test a theme on FR matchbox -theme doesn't work Jul 29 07:26:18 opendeep, this page should have everything you need to know: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD Jul 29 07:26:40 and it's way past my bedtime, g'night Jul 29 07:29:07 peepsalot: I fallowed that, but with opkg , ipkg-link mount /media/card/opkg not works it seems. See here http://markmail.org/message/tujwhhbazj6qh5j6 Jul 29 07:48:03 morning Jul 29 07:52:53 evening Jul 29 07:55:43 what's the DISPLAY command for running display commands over ssh? DISPLAY:=0? Jul 29 07:57:02 railer: DISPLAY=:0 Jul 29 07:57:49 railer, It is "export DISPLAY=:0" Jul 29 08:00:36 ya thanks, little too tired Jul 29 08:00:39 lpotter: sry I forgot to mention "UTG" (http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html) ;) Jul 29 08:01:14 phew Jul 29 08:01:18 * torpor takes a beating Jul 29 08:02:15 torpor, you chatting from austria ? Jul 29 08:13:38 Is there any wiki help on using the ASU? Jul 29 08:15:33 nick Zorkman Jul 29 08:18:53 Morning, all Jul 29 08:30:13 WorldDomination: yes Jul 29 08:30:15 vienna Jul 29 08:30:19 Stroller: morning Jul 29 08:30:40 hey - funny I meet you here. You must be J from metalab Jul 29 08:30:45 yup Jul 29 08:30:52 I m J too, but rarely there, living in brussels Jul 29 08:31:01 ah Jul 29 08:31:04 did we meet at metalab? Jul 29 08:31:24 yes we mainly discussed about apple logic audio and sw synths and stuff Jul 29 08:31:43 ah i see Jul 29 08:31:51 how many openmoko devices are already within the hands of the ml community ? I saw no followup on your workshop mail Jul 29 08:31:54 <= doesn't remember. ;) Jul 29 08:32:05 well, I ll give you a link Jul 29 08:32:21 there aren't many in the metalab community right now that are interested in openmoko, mostly because of the bugs in the hardware, which are terrible, and the crappy software Jul 29 08:32:30 the perception is - right or wrong - that openmoko is a lame duck project. Jul 29 08:32:41 so now everyone is jailbreaking iphones. Jul 29 08:32:42 there are bugs in the hardware ? Jul 29 08:32:50 sh* Jul 29 08:32:56 I intended to buy one Jul 29 08:33:25 they're not total show-stoppers if all you want to do is use it as a phone, but if you intended to do 3D work on it (quite a few were very interested in this) or such things, its pretty much all over. Jul 29 08:33:38 I was around some openmoko dev channels and they said something like it's usable Jul 29 08:33:47 'usable' is relative. Jul 29 08:33:51 3d work ? Jul 29 08:34:10 forget about it. Jul 29 08:34:11 what kind of ? Jul 29 08:34:20 ah, jubin! now of course i recognize you. Jul 29 08:34:37 no 3d acceleration possible. Jul 29 08:34:49 the glamo is limited by bandwidth on the SD bus. Jul 29 08:35:05 GPS accuracy is affected by SD I/O. Jul 29 08:35:06 etc. Jul 29 08:35:10 the only thing I can't imagine: what would anyone need 3d gfx acceleration on an iphone for ? Jul 29 08:35:19 err openmoko I mean. Jul 29 08:35:20 lots of hacks and workarounds, but for a second-generation device it shouldn't have been necessary. Jul 29 08:35:26 or mobile generally. Jul 29 08:35:29 hm Jul 29 08:35:32 well, i can imagine a lot of great apps for 3D on a phone. GPS, for one. Jul 29 08:35:37 games too. Jul 29 08:35:44 certainly there is no reason not to use 3D if its in the phone. Jul 29 08:35:49 it is in the phone. but it doesn't work. Jul 29 08:35:54 so thats a fairly expensive mistake i think. Jul 29 08:36:01 hm Jul 29 08:36:29 what disturbs me is no cam and usb 1.1 Jul 29 08:36:37 that too Jul 29 08:36:37 as well as no 3g Jul 29 08:36:42 so get an iphone. Jul 29 08:36:44 i am. Jul 29 08:36:53 I have one, I need to get a 2nd one now Jul 29 08:37:05 as dev-device Jul 29 08:38:47 i will continue my OM projects, in the hopes that gta03 is better, but i have to consider doing iphone work too now .. Jul 29 08:39:40 well I will be developing for the iphone anyhow Jul 29 08:39:50 cool Jul 29 08:39:54 hope it goes well. Jul 29 08:40:00 btw: do you know what's the lightest laptop around ? Jul 29 08:40:19 * zedstar_ develops on the iphone and it is a PITA Jul 29 08:40:24 no idea Jul 29 08:40:31 i have an eee pc, but i'm sure there are better Jul 29 08:40:34 zedstar_: yup. Jul 29 08:41:21 WorldDomination: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/voodoo-envy-hp-macbook-air,5987.html Jul 29 08:41:31 i bet zedstar_ first thing people tell me when i'm like "but dude i can make apps for this thing!" there like "big deal mac released an SDK for iphone Jul 29 08:42:17 :P we really need a bot that gives people a lil kick when they say iphone ;) it's be funny as heck Jul 29 08:42:25 thanks centaur Jul 29 08:42:28 kd8ikt yeh......i actually use linux to do the development :) Jul 29 08:42:33 lawl Jul 29 08:42:49 what disturbs me is that the iphone doesnt know background processes Jul 29 08:42:55 right now at least. Jul 29 08:43:05 so indeed maybe a jailbroken one will do Jul 29 08:43:44 the problem i face is trying to port libraries that you would normally find on a decent unix/linux i mean the iphone comes with some nice stuff but missing lots Jul 29 08:43:47 but it's still risky. Jul 29 08:44:41 so for open source stuff it is kinda hard work but i guess ok if u wanna stick to those kiddies GUI apps they sell on the app store Jul 29 08:45:03 use lightweight threads on iphone, its possible. Jul 29 08:46:34 torpor u jay from ML right? hats off to u for being brave i think and expressing your views Jul 29 08:47:34 zedstar_: yeah thats me Jul 29 08:47:39 and thanks but its no big deal. Jul 29 08:47:45 without communication there is no progress Jul 29 08:48:06 zedstar_: do i know you from metalab too? Jul 29 08:48:27 torpor no Jul 29 08:48:52 actually I dont need a phone for the hack I plan. I need a light open device with linux putable on it, vthe lighter, the better. it should have usb and a decent cpu Jul 29 08:49:12 WorldDomination: there are tons of options for you then. Jul 29 08:49:15 I looked around Jul 29 08:49:17 you can use a coldfire board, or something Jul 29 08:49:20 ive been meaning to post about the whole 2007.2 multiple stack replacement.....at some point OM was funding that development but what happened Jul 29 08:49:20 check linuxdevices.com Jul 29 08:49:41 hm - I already liked the idea of the nokia n810 Jul 29 08:49:55 the n810 is great Jul 29 08:49:55 zedstar_: they screwed up. i think, personally, someone at openmoko doesn't want the project to succeed. maybe they're secretly working for google or microsoft or apple. Jul 29 08:49:59 but I would have to plug an hsdpa card into it Jul 29 08:50:10 it's not very expensive either Jul 29 08:50:29 torpor cos openedhand has some great developers...they were contracting out to them at some point Jul 29 08:50:31 problem I see: although it supports linux, that doesnt mean that lots of people use linux on it. and this means potentially stability issues Jul 29 08:51:26 but now obviously pay development on ASU and there is money backing development on qtopia so 2007.2 is screwed...it is not an even playing fiedl Jul 29 08:51:39 yup Jul 29 08:51:54 that is what i dont get somebody at OM made that choice Jul 29 08:51:54 i think the linux/OSS side of the openmoko project is definitely getting fucked over by commercial interests. Jul 29 08:51:59 we will stop paying for X and pay for Y Jul 29 08:52:08 zedstar_: openhand still continue with poky, and poky is what 2007.2 came from Jul 29 08:52:35 XorA but OM was contracting out initial development of the 2007.2 gui apps right? Jul 29 08:52:46 definitely appears to me that there is some subversin going on and id on't mean the good kind Jul 29 08:52:49 zedstar_: yes Jul 29 08:53:09 XorA so what happened.....OM decided not to pay opendedhand anymore to work on it? Jul 29 08:53:31 zedstar_: 2007.2 went about as far as it could without FSO Jul 29 08:53:50 zedstar_: I am really pleased that people are picking up 2007.2 and transplanting it onto FSO Jul 29 08:54:15 XorA but are there paid developers on that? Jul 29 08:54:31 the story behind ASU was that it was supposed to be a quick fix, but these things never work out Jul 29 08:55:00 OM knew that FSO work needed to be done, but we also needed to get a phone out that would work(ish) Jul 29 08:55:31 I don't see why this wasn't a developer only phone. Jul 29 08:55:31 Do you work for Openmoko, XorA ? Jul 29 08:55:36 Stroller: yes Jul 29 08:55:46 TY Jul 29 08:55:49 It simply does not work at all as a phone, or even as a linux machine. Jul 29 08:56:00 there was no internal subterfuge, just project planning gone wrong Jul 29 08:56:09 safiiru: what, what? The Feerunner IS a developer-only phone. Jul 29 08:56:11 the thing that concerns me is the best app IMO available was developed for 2007.2 by a community member who seems really pissed right now Jul 29 08:56:21 zedstar_: which app? Jul 29 08:56:26 zedstar: what app's that? Jul 29 08:56:27 tangoGSP Jul 29 08:56:31 GPS Jul 29 08:56:31 hm coldfire boards Jul 29 08:56:42 * XorA notes that tangogps-fso was just checked into OE Jul 29 08:56:54 Stoller: I can barely get mine to stay functional for long enough to explore how I might make an application. Jul 29 08:57:05 * XorA also nots that gtk+ stuff runs and looks the same on ASU Jul 29 08:58:14 safiiru: is this in general or using a specific framework? Because most people repost calls & SMS work out the box. That would meet with the "developer-only" description Jul 29 09:00:23 Stroller: 2007.2 used to work (just barely) for calls, and sms for me, earlier today I could not even run the messages program without it crashing, and I've done almost nothing to change it. I have an ASU release, which *seems* better, but it keeps turning off/suspending I don't know what all the time and never coming back on unless I remove that battery now. Jul 29 09:00:52 Well, that all sounds within parameters to me, safiiru Jul 29 09:01:08 safiiru: you can turn off suspend on ASU, lower the illume window, click on spanner in top left and select power Jul 29 09:01:29 I will need something that can stay ON, in order to use and develop for it. Jul 29 09:01:32 I think our kernel guy finally got to the bottom of the suspend/resume problems, so we have hope Jul 29 09:01:52 i'd like to be able to disable screen locking while leaving dimming enabled Jul 29 09:01:53 there is definitely still hope. Jul 29 09:02:03 Yes but can you direct me to any instructions to do these things, because I'm having quite a bit of trouble with it and I am by no means new to linux, embedded devices or programming. Jul 29 09:02:07 but there is also a lot of chaos to be tamed. Jul 29 09:02:10 i have not tried ASU on my 1973 yet but i will give it the benefit of the doubt while it matures Jul 29 09:02:13 also, i'd like to be able to click "suspend now" in the power menu Jul 29 09:02:30 without setting power saving mode to something including suspending Jul 29 09:02:36 I simply can't guess how to do things out of thin air, especially I'm needing to do it though an unintuitive gui with no docs. Jul 29 09:03:03 several things neod does are just too... stuffed away Jul 29 09:03:08 and unconfigurable Jul 29 09:03:13 safiiru: I just gave you the docs :-D Jul 29 09:03:38 :) Jul 29 09:03:41 * WorldDomination is checking out coldfire boards Jul 29 09:04:17 LIterally the only way that I've found to get certain standard info about how to do anything by asking in here. Jul 29 09:04:36 XorA, have you any idea (an enourmously rough guess) at when we will be able to make calls with reasonable or even good audio quality? Jul 29 09:04:46 (or shouldn't I be asking this? :)) Jul 29 09:04:51 For instance, now I am checking out ASU, but there is no Terminal, ... I'm at a loss really, If I had a terminal I'd have something :) Jul 29 09:04:54 Zorkman: it requires that someone write an echo-cancellation library Jul 29 09:05:05 this is not onboard. Jul 29 09:05:09 safiiru: you can install the 2007.2 terminal in the asu Jul 29 09:05:10 Zorkman: Im not sure what the state is, Ive only got a prototype phone Jul 29 09:05:18 torpor: there is echo cancelling stuff in mISDN and also in asterisk Jul 29 09:05:26 torpor: both GPL Jul 29 09:05:41 Wonka: well then its time we put it on the OM then, isn't it? Jul 29 09:05:55 Zorkman, there is a chicken and egg problem here for me, how do I use opkg if I am not on the internet/have a terminal? Jul 29 09:05:58 torpor: ack. but i am not able to do it... Jul 29 09:06:15 How do I set up ASU to use the wifi if I have no terminal. Jul 29 09:06:16 etc. Jul 29 09:06:21 safiiru: ssh into the phone Jul 29 09:06:24 torpor: but i can point people to things and also bug people with stuff :) Jul 29 09:06:27 What I have come to realise about Openmoko is that they are masters of marketing. And they manage not to appear so, because we all believe in the "community", "free", "create", "open" meme. Maybe they all buy into their own koolaid, but they manage to say' "developer only" whilst wossisnaming a far brighter impression. The words they used, and their "inspired" patter kinda plays upon our own dreams. But at the end of the day I have decided that (for m Jul 29 09:06:39 safiiru: via ssh over usb networking? Jul 29 09:06:40 Zorkman, so ssh is running and listening on usb0 automatically? Jul 29 09:06:46 on asu? Jul 29 09:06:52 yeah.... Jul 29 09:06:53 And usb0 is up? Jul 29 09:07:00 Ok, I can give that a try. Jul 29 09:07:20 safiiru: there is a good wiki page about USB networking Jul 29 09:07:20 safiiru: it always works for me... i just ssh in the phone just like with 2007.2 and I opkg the terminal Jul 29 09:07:50 Yeah I had gotten 2007.2 setup fine. Jul 29 09:08:03 the good news for today is: i m receiving a macbook pro by ups in the next hours Jul 29 09:08:21 But I had to go in and configure usb0 and bring it up on the 2007.2 terminal, I thought I would have to again in this instance.. from the terminal on the phone. Jul 29 09:08:33 a wd drive of mine died :( Jul 29 09:08:38 WorldDomination: the one with the broken NVIDIA chip? :) Jul 29 09:08:41 Stroller: I read your mails and I understand you, but whatever openmoko does is better than nothing, and what they don't... wel...we'll just have to do that Jul 29 09:08:42 hope you got applecare with it. Jul 29 09:08:47 sec brb Jul 29 09:08:51 torpor what ? broken nvidia chip ? Jul 29 09:08:54 yup Jul 29 09:08:59 waaaah Jul 29 09:09:03 all macbook pro's have shit nvidia chips which fail after a while. Jul 29 09:09:06 including mine. Jul 29 09:09:18 holy f* Jul 29 09:09:23 when did you buy it ? Jul 29 09:09:39 last year, july Jul 29 09:09:48 guess whos 1 year warranty expired last week. Jul 29 09:09:48 well not only i dont have apple care Jul 29 09:10:02 I plan to abolish the warranty tomorrow by inserting a 500gb hdd in it Jul 29 09:10:10 oh man Jul 29 09:10:15 Zorkman: yeah, I wrote a long email to Sean off-list about this. Like I say, I have decided that (for me) Openmoko can trump any dispute by saying "we make openhardware". They WANT forks. They want a dozen Freerunner distros, and if we don't like ASU then we should install Ubuntomoko and bitch to them instead. Jul 29 09:10:27 well, if it wasn't for osx, I wouldn't be buying apple to be honest Jul 29 09:10:33 Zorkman: So if ASU's screen is going black if I don't touch it for a few seconds and not coming back if I touch the screen or tap/hold/anything the power or aux buttons, this is bad, or normal? Jul 29 09:11:01 Stroller: now *thats* controversial. Jul 29 09:11:10 WorldDomination: well, duh! Jul 29 09:11:14 torpor: is it? Jul 29 09:11:29 * kd8ikt is getting very sleepy Jul 29 09:11:42 torpor: they have said that. Unless I'm reading their emails wrong (which would be easy to do) Jul 29 09:11:42 * Rigolo is getting more awake :-) Jul 29 09:12:23 well, i dunno .. i've even considered starting my own distro for freerunner. Jul 29 09:12:33 trouble is, scaredy cat.. well .. sccared me off! :) Jul 29 09:12:37 to really put me to sleep i could check my inbox of lets see 66 unchecked openmoko mailing list msgs Jul 29 09:12:45 I really don't get it why they don't concentrate their effort on one distro untill there is at least one stable one, the community can work in parrallel on other distro's and they themselves can work on other distros after creating one stable one Jul 29 09:13:01 i think thats whats happening now Zorkman Jul 29 09:13:05 Stroller: I think there is nothing wrong with multiple distro's, releases etc ... as long as they are "large" enough to attract enough developers that are willing to invest their own time into that distro to create something new and exciting for it Jul 29 09:13:08 FSO stack Jul 29 09:13:10 safari: no ,that mmeans it is in suspend i htink Jul 29 09:13:18 is everyone on FSO? Jul 29 09:13:26 i thought only a few were working on that one.. Jul 29 09:13:32 i think thats where the main dev has been going down Jul 29 09:13:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Jul 29 09:14:04 ah safiiru: sorry, didn't read you also pressed pwoer button... Jul 29 09:14:06 Rigolo: I think the hope it that if Openmoko can bring hardware, then the other distros WILL be large enough. TheHardware is what pays Openmoko's bills, at the end of the day. (I'm using "Openmoko" in the "FIC" sense here) Jul 29 09:14:30 One of my previous messages was cut off. Jul 29 09:14:34 thats the problem i have: the hardware pays the bills, but yet it sucks so hard. Jul 29 09:14:48 Zorkman: Yeah I don't get what I'm doing wrong, perhaps if I can have it stay on long enough and update will fix it or something. Jul 29 09:14:50 What I have come to realise about Openmoko is that they are masters of marketing. And they manage not to appear so, because we all believe in the "community", "free", "create", "open" meme. Maybe they all buy into their own koolaid, but they manage to say' "developer only" whilst wossisnaming a far brighter impression. The words they used, and their "inspired" patter kinda plays upon our own dreams. Jul 29 09:14:50 But at the end of the day I have decided that (for me) Openmoko can trump any dispute by saying "we make openhardware". I can't wait for Ubuntomoko. Jul 29 09:15:09 is it Stroller ? or troller? Jul 29 09:15:22 safiiru: disable the power managment Jul 29 09:15:24 i dare not read that mess Jul 29 09:15:39 Zorkman: k Jul 29 09:15:41 anyone working on anything *interesting* for the freerunner? Jul 29 09:15:51 lets try to avoid this non-productive conversation now .. Jul 29 09:15:57 and focus on what counts: the applications. Jul 29 09:15:59 torpor: do you believe the hardware "sucks so hard"? Or is it just the software? The glamo thing was a mistake, but as I see it they weren't to know that. Hopefully GTA03 will be much better (as 02 was over the NEo) Jul 29 09:16:03 i made a lame lil wallpaper does that count? Jul 29 09:16:19 Stroller: well, ... Ubuntumoko shoould not be to hard .... debian is already running on it .. so the "hard" part is done. Not let's make it pretty :-) Jul 29 09:16:21 http://we.trekbeyond.org/~kd8ikt/alpha.png Jul 29 09:16:28 Stroller: its the hardware. for *sure* they screwed up. for *sure* they should not have designed the glam/SD interface the way they did. Jul 29 09:16:38 kd8ikt: argue the message, not the messenger Jul 29 09:16:58 nice, stroller Jul 29 09:17:02 whew, that is really a lame lil wallpaper. Jul 29 09:17:02 ;) Jul 29 09:17:06 GTA03 might be better Jul 29 09:17:33 i think it neat like when i show my dad instead of blabering on about what all it has i can show him the wallpaper Jul 29 09:17:54 torpor: I thought that the SD interface was a feature of the Glamo. Having bought into the glamo (which in hindsight *was* a mistake) it was logical to do the SD interface that way. Jul 29 09:18:00 Wonka: well .. I hope the pick a larger screen ... but I also hope they can get one with the same resolution .. Jul 29 09:18:10 I think I ll get a barebone notebook without display, place a lightweight accu in it, and I m off with about 3-400 grams - linux on it, that's about the surest way to be on the safe side with a lightweight linux device with hsdp Jul 29 09:18:10 WorldDomination: I'm glad you agree (assuming you're not being sarcastic) Jul 29 09:18:12 a. Jul 29 09:18:31 any prevision about GTA03 ? Jul 29 09:18:39 is the glamo sd interface capable of sdio? Jul 29 09:18:52 * kd8ikt goes in the corner to huff cat pee Jul 29 09:18:57 if yes, would it have helped to put the ar6k on the glamo instead? Jul 29 09:19:01 now Poky with some kind of GSM etc stack would be nice me thinks Jul 29 09:19:03 i think the glamo decision was a typical design-by-finance-officer mistake. Jul 29 09:20:02 sirs, the GTA02 is assumed to have wlan, isn't it? Jul 29 09:20:14 hari: it has .... Jul 29 09:20:15 torpor: well, NO other company's made one of those, then. ;) Jul 29 09:20:20 hari: it does Jul 29 09:20:51 * WorldDomination grabs bentob0x Jul 29 09:21:00 * Stroller hands kd8ikt a tray of bunny pee to widen his nasal stimulation Jul 29 09:21:12 Rigolo, i flashed the latest freerunner image (git20080424-om-gta02.bin + Openmoko-Freerunner-20080424-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2), but there is no wlan0 and it looks like the kernel modules for wlan are missing Jul 29 09:21:17 so how long will it take the iphonelinux guys to break open the iphone you guess? Jul 29 09:21:20 Rigolo, or do _I_ miss anything here :-) Jul 29 09:21:30 hari: it's eth0 Jul 29 09:21:41 hari: and the driver seems to be in-kernel Jul 29 09:21:48 hari: its eth0, and there is no module: its builtin to the kernel. Jul 29 09:21:52 cool Jul 29 09:21:57 get wifi-radar Jul 29 09:21:57 just seeing it (iwconfig eth0) Jul 29 09:22:02 ^^ Jul 29 09:22:08 hungry WorldDomination? Jul 29 09:22:19 indeed Jul 29 09:22:35 sorry for the invasive introduction ;) Jul 29 09:22:41 btw guys is ASU usable as a everyday OS already? Jul 29 09:23:09 2007.2 is almost usable with mwesters patches.. Jul 29 09:23:28 *sigh* some day i'll need to re-flash my FR with the then-current recommendation and redo several changes i've done Jul 29 09:23:44 clean out /etc/rc?.d/, and stuff Jul 29 09:23:54 but why not commit them upstream? Jul 29 09:24:06 Wonka: put them in a local svn .. or create a ipkg for them ... Jul 29 09:24:57 Bill_: i do not have the time, at the moment Jul 29 09:25:23 Bill_: i don't really have any time for playing with the FR, realistically, as I should be studying for some exam Jul 29 09:26:42 Wonka: lol.. i know the feeling from days way back :) Jul 29 09:26:46 * torpor addes "make a freerunner backup app in python" to his list of openmoko TODO's... Jul 29 09:27:59 torpor: mh, might it help if that list was accessible at wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TODO or something like that? Jul 29 09:28:14 Bill_: 2007.2 is almost usable with mwesters patches.. - does that mean you have to build the image yourself? Jul 29 09:28:38 Wonka: no its personal todo Jul 29 09:29:31 Stroller: nope.. look at: http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#gtkuser Jul 29 09:29:47 kernels and some userspace hints Jul 29 09:29:47 Bill_: TY. I didn't find it by Goog Jul 29 09:29:52 np Jul 29 09:30:13 altho don't expect any miracles Jul 29 09:30:40 Bill_: well, if it's better than standard 2007.2 Jul 29 09:30:46 powermanagement just gets a bit better (it actually lasts for a day :) ) Jul 29 09:31:22 and the sound management on suspend is better (altho it still loses sound after wakeup at times.. but rarely) Jul 29 09:31:46 Blimey! There are some great double-decker buses on eBay. Jul 29 09:31:46 * Stroller is wrestling with the temptation to grow dreadlocks and live in a van Jul 29 09:31:57 arrgh, its so frustrating to see that mwester page. WHY ISN'T SOMEONE AT OPENMOKO DOING THIS!? Jul 29 09:32:29 torpor: because they want everyone to fork Jul 29 09:33:08 damnit Jul 29 09:33:15 i gotta go now. Jul 29 09:33:18 nice chatting with you guys. Jul 29 09:33:23 bai Jul 29 09:33:32 <- set away Jul 29 09:37:34 question: is there a way to make the mutitap keyboard smaller? is the size configured via a settings file/xml file some where? I think the size is too large (takes up to much screen) but the matchbox keyboard is to small for me Jul 29 09:38:47 or maybe I should make a new settings file for the matchbox keyboard to make the keys larger ... mmmmm Jul 29 09:40:08 Rigolo: I am looking at making the matchbox kb larger here :) Jul 29 09:40:45 I find the multitap a nightmare to use Jul 29 09:40:49 Tig|: but keep the current hight of the kb? how many keys do you plan on putting on the screen? Jul 29 09:41:11 Rigolo: not sure how yet, still looking at it Jul 29 09:41:37 mutlitap is fine as long as you can get some T9 or some other dictionary attached to it (like on "normal" phones :-) Jul 29 09:42:01 i never use that crap personally Jul 29 09:42:36 i got to type omfg and itstarts suggesting I'm or somehtin like i misspelt it Jul 29 09:42:37 well .. on a phone with real keys you can do with out ... here I think it is very usefull Jul 29 09:43:03 kd8ikt: well .. that is why you can add suggestions to you dictionary .. Jul 29 09:43:25 * kd8ikt has no problem doing it all one key at a time Jul 29 09:43:31 but then .. the nokia just puts your suggestions as the last option when you cycle through the words Jul 29 09:44:00 I installed python in SD card and linked with root fs using ipkg-link . still unable to use python , why? Jul 29 09:44:19 Tig|: well when i look at my fingers and then at the screen a 4 x 2 config seems possible Jul 29 09:44:43 i cant wait to see what fso becomes Jul 29 09:45:10 kd8ikt: with their multitap implementation? or in general? Jul 29 09:45:33 generally speaking Jul 29 09:45:54 its quite fingerable Jul 29 09:46:00 ;) Jul 29 09:46:39 mmm I feel more like the SHR .. if ever .. because that should give your the best of both worlds (in theory) Jul 29 09:46:58 did anyone opkg upgrade the asu today? Jul 29 09:47:31 Zorkman: I want to upgrade it at the moment Jul 29 09:47:45 bumbl: better check the kernel versions first ... Jul 29 09:47:54 Rigolo: ? Jul 29 09:47:56 do a opkg -test upgrade Jul 29 09:48:00 bumbl: if you do, please tell us if yuo can reboot Jul 29 09:48:13 I am upgrading it right now. Jul 29 09:48:13 for me ... kernel git25 broke my ASU 2 days ago Jul 29 09:48:17 does it pull in a neo1973 kernel? Jul 29 09:48:41 yest'erday the opkg upgrade broke my asu to Jul 29 09:48:44 *too Jul 29 09:49:15 * Rigolo is using 2007.2 22 July .. but does not upgrade the kernel to git25 at the moment Jul 29 09:49:42 Zorkman: yes mine too; i could ssh via usb0 to it but x won't start and it could not connect to the internet (neither with wlan nor with dnrd) Jul 29 09:49:57 there are some bug reports on that Jul 29 09:50:47 https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1678 Jul 29 09:51:48 ok so i did a -test upgrade Jul 29 09:51:55 how can i see if everything would be fine? Jul 29 09:52:24 well .. you probably see loads of kernel modules being update ... check the version Jul 29 09:52:38 git 23 Jul 29 09:53:06 that is current ... and the To version is? Jul 29 09:53:13 I just play Russian roulette and try to upgrade it Jul 29 09:53:29 i think the first upgrade always succeeds Jul 29 09:53:31 you have a backup of your changes/contacts etc Jul 29 09:53:42 but then I get the libfreet.0 messages Jul 29 09:53:48 and when i force uninstall efreet Jul 29 09:53:52 Rigolo: yes Jul 29 09:54:02 and then upgrad (e-wm i think and something else) THEN it stops booting Jul 29 09:54:12 bumbl: okee .. then go ahead and have some fun :-) Jul 29 09:54:21 thank you Jul 29 09:54:33 Zorkman: the problem is not efreet Jul 29 09:54:44 bumbl: i know it is not efreet, Jul 29 09:54:47 the problem is that it can't install libcairo Jul 29 09:55:09 but without uninstalling efreet i can't install e-wm and that other thing Jul 29 09:55:10 Hello: I am a little bit confused about the different distritbutions for Freerunner. Which one is the most actively developed, on which one should I start developing my own apps? There are different rumors, so it is difficult to find out where it goes. Is FSO the future? Is it ASU? Have they (Openmoko and Community) given up on GTK? Jul 29 09:55:14 * libcairo2 (>= 1.6.4) * libpixman-1-0 (>= 0.11.4) * libpulse0 (>= 0.9.10) * Jul 29 09:55:32 twice it didn't brake before i removed efreet en upgraded e-wm, but broke after installing e-wm Jul 29 09:55:41 bumbl: i also got those messages Jul 29 09:55:44 loonyxp: short answer: pick what you feel best with .... Jul 29 09:55:57 when i opkg installed them it says they are up to date Jul 29 09:56:17 Rigolo: so, none of the distribution is "dead"? Jul 29 09:56:24 Zorkman: yes what else should opkg tell you Jul 29 09:56:32 loonyxp: you can use GTK applications on the every stack: asu, 20072 and fso Jul 29 09:56:35 loonyxp: not as far as I can tell .... Jul 29 09:56:39 it does not find any newer packages Jul 29 09:56:57 Rigolo: does this apply to the QT stuff too? Jul 29 09:57:00 but that task-.... requires newer ones Jul 29 09:57:24 QT works on ASU at the moment ... I think not on fso and 2007.2 Jul 29 09:57:40 Rigolo: will it work on FSO in the future? Jul 29 09:57:55 loonyxp: no idea ... Jul 29 09:58:06 Rigolo: ok... thanks... Jul 29 09:58:08 loonyxp: qt works on each of the distributions, you simply have to install it Jul 29 09:58:15 QuickTime works on ASU? Interesting... ;) Jul 29 09:58:25 bumbi: cool thanks... Jul 29 09:58:28 heh Jul 29 09:58:54 loonyxp: like I said ... if you feel at home with Qt .. build QT apps ... if you like GTK than use that ... Jul 29 09:58:55 whenever i need a sound check i call em 611 (my isp's customer care number) and chat with the lady for a min Jul 29 09:58:59 fso implements a dbus interface for messaging,... it is a kind of framework which might be implemented in coming openmoko distributions Jul 29 09:59:02 em=up Jul 29 09:59:12 2007.2 is dead but stable Jul 29 09:59:40 well not totally dead you can still F with it/update it Jul 29 09:59:56 Rigolo: well, as bumbi says, it is not only the framework, also the underlaying infrastructure... dbus makes things really easy Jul 29 10:00:32 singularity Jul 29 10:01:18 bumbi: as michael lauer said in his block... they want that it gets more love (2007.2) but nobody of them really cares about it at the moment... so, because it is stable it is the factory default for the freerunner? Jul 29 10:01:37 *blog Jul 29 10:02:28 anyway... I think I'll take a look at asu... seems promising... Jul 29 10:02:32 kd8ikt: the image itself does not get any new features, the update of the apps/kernel does not change much, but at least it does not break every two minutes like asu Jul 29 10:03:38 loonyxp: afaik 2007.2 is deprecated because openmoko focuses on asu and fso and the community focuses on fso and shr Jul 29 10:03:59 i gather one could poll almanach and ephemeris data from the GPS chip easily and put it back in after a cold start as easily Jul 29 10:04:15 bumbl: that would mean, that fso is the best choice (community+openmoko) ...? Jul 29 10:04:19 hey guys Jul 29 10:04:24 any python developers on moko here? I have installed python SD and linked with root fs, but still it's not taking python. Jul 29 10:04:32 i'm trying to set up gpsd. this is what i get when i cat /dev/ttySAC1 Jul 29 10:04:47 $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48 Jul 29 10:05:06 $GPGSV,1,1,00*79 Jul 29 10:05:08 Guilt: looks like NMEA to me Jul 29 10:05:12 what does it mean. is it good or bad? Jul 29 10:05:17 Wonka: how do i fix this? Jul 29 10:05:30 do i need a solder? Jul 29 10:05:44 Guilt: NMEA is a gps data protocol Jul 29 10:05:48 its gps Jul 29 10:06:09 okay. it means it's working? Jul 29 10:06:13 Guilt: have you tried using openmoko-agpsui to verify you get a fix? Jul 29 10:06:16 it's many commas. Jul 29 10:06:25 it means gps antenna is receiving data, but not enough for a fix Jul 29 10:06:41 Guilt: at least, it outputs GPS stuff. if it will get a position fix i cannot read from those two lines... Jul 29 10:07:04 * Wonka does not talk NMEA :) Jul 29 10:07:08 Wonka: so i have no idea. the antenna is okay, not critical? Jul 29 10:07:23 and do i need the SD card/kernel patch? Jul 29 10:07:26 Guilt: don't know. try agpsui and go outside. Jul 29 10:07:36 alright. i'm trying to put agpsui Jul 29 10:07:42 sec. Jul 29 10:08:22 opkg install openmoko-agpsui <- i hope Jul 29 10:08:36 thats it Jul 29 10:08:55 recent zhone versions have somthing like that, too Jul 29 10:08:56 okay. gpsd is up Jul 29 10:08:58 trying to walk Jul 29 10:09:15 it asks me to Press START Jul 29 10:09:17 where is it Jul 29 10:10:00 down left on the screen Jul 29 10:10:06 "power on" Jul 29 10:12:12 NMEA is a communications protocol primarily for integrating marine navigation system. Nothing specific to GSP. ;) Jul 29 10:12:31 s/GSP/GPS/ Jul 29 10:12:31 DPThough1 meant: NMEA is a communications protocol primarily for integrating marine navigation system. Nothing specific to GPS. ;) Jul 29 10:13:15 does gpsd need a fix to start or doesnt it? Jul 29 10:15:48 bumbl: you upgraded and restarted? Jul 29 10:16:49 Zorkman: no Jul 29 10:17:02 because I got the same problems like yesterday Jul 29 10:17:17 I don't see the point in running into the same problems again Jul 29 10:24:22 okay. Jul 29 10:24:25 i went around and came. Jul 29 10:24:36 i got this: Fixes 0 good, 335 fail, 335 total Jul 29 10:24:42 and it doesnt display Latitude/Longitude Jul 29 10:24:55 in log i'm getting more values. Jul 29 10:25:00 but many 99s Jul 29 10:25:19 is anybody getting their lat/long yet? Jul 29 10:27:03 even where there are 3-4 sats displayed in SS it doesnt work Jul 29 10:27:54 THE PHONES ARE HERE! Jul 29 10:27:56 \o/ Jul 29 10:28:09 where? Jul 29 10:28:12 'f you haven't managed to get a FFIX your either doing something' Jul 29 10:28:20 * Tig| looks at phone on desk :) Jul 29 10:28:34 'wrong or your one of those unlucky guys (gals) with a bad solder or something else that probably requires shipping the phone back to your supplier/openmoko.' Jul 29 10:28:36 motherfucker Jul 29 10:28:40 damn it. Jul 29 10:30:14 Tig|, south australia Jul 29 10:30:19 Guilt: you tried it outside? Jul 29 10:30:30 what was the power of the sattelites? Jul 29 10:30:43 Guilt: and tried LONG ...it might take up to 20 mins I heard Jul 29 10:30:49 to get a fix i think you need 127dbm Jul 29 10:31:09 around 40 dbM Jul 29 10:31:22 now it shows 30 Jul 29 10:31:26 db.HZ, i meant Jul 29 10:31:27 there are two values in there, Jul 29 10:31:28 Kamping_Kaiser: cool! is it a group buy or are you reselling? Jul 29 10:31:38 you can switch with a button on the bottomleft Jul 29 10:31:42 Zorkman, i'm in SS Jul 29 10:31:55 Tig|, group buy. Aus did a big 'all in', then they got sent to states individually Jul 29 10:31:59 * Kamping_Kaiser is trying to upload photos Jul 29 10:32:12 heh cool :) Jul 29 10:32:12 Guilt: click on the button that says "dBm" Jul 29 10:32:28 dbM: 151 to 141 dbM Jul 29 10:32:29 yeah Jul 29 10:32:36 and you are inside?? Jul 29 10:32:47 right now. Jul 29 10:32:48 yes Jul 29 10:33:08 close to a window i presume? Jul 29 10:33:12 large windows .... thin roof :-) Jul 29 10:33:12 yes Jul 29 10:33:31 Az shows 1 satellite on north pole Jul 29 10:33:50 Guilt: are you santa claus :-) Jul 29 10:33:54 it's north ple because he doesn't have a fix, doesn't mean they are northpole Jul 29 10:34:13 Zorkman: yeah. how do i get a ffix? Jul 29 10:34:29 go outside or put your freerunner against the window or outside for a few minutes Jul 29 10:34:39 in a clear sky outside i get a fix in about 30-40s Jul 29 10:34:41 4 sats shown Jul 29 10:34:57 inside it takes a lot longer because of bad reception, Jul 29 10:35:10 but once I have a fix, it stays fixed Jul 29 10:35:31 oh Jul 29 10:35:38 why wont it get a ffix? Jul 29 10:35:44 does it need more power? Jul 29 10:35:49 you know, the SD card/problem? Jul 29 10:36:57 Guilt: hwo up to date is your freerunner? Jul 29 10:37:18 2007.2, got the latest packages for gpsd/gpsd-conf Jul 29 10:37:23 Zorkman, kernel wise? Jul 29 10:37:47 yeah Jul 29 10:38:04 try flashing a recent kernel Jul 29 10:38:41 the version i'm running is: Jul 29 10:39:25 Jul 22 uImage Jul 29 10:39:44 performing opkg upgrade now Jul 29 10:39:57 do a cat /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_drive (on your freerunner) Jul 29 10:40:17 0 Jul 29 10:40:37 i think that kernel immage has most or all of the fixes Jul 29 10:40:48 really, just go outside for a few minutes Jul 29 10:40:51 the one i use? Jul 29 10:40:52 you probably will get a fix Jul 29 10:40:55 yeah Jul 29 10:41:17 cant go out much. my phone is near the window Jul 29 10:41:18 to be 100% sure you could flash to the 0728 kernel, but i don't think it will make a difference Jul 29 10:41:27 around 4-5 SVs are in 140 Jul 29 10:41:46 6 above -145dbm Jul 29 10:41:53 is it facing upwards? (eg the hole in the neo on the buttom) Jul 29 10:42:50 yea Jul 29 10:43:39 u mean on the side, near the power/USB Jul 29 10:44:08 wasnt last community update a little unfriendly ? Jul 29 10:44:11 Zorkman: never got a fix in 30-40s for me the first fix takes always longer than 3-5min Jul 29 10:44:18 i mean just like when you would hold the phone in front of you and look at the screen Jul 29 10:44:34 bumbl: you tried outside in good conditions? Jul 29 10:45:28 rebooting freerunner Jul 29 10:46:54 does opkg upgrade screw up the paritions? Jul 29 10:47:26 nope Jul 29 10:49:58 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r9be30cb2dfc0 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Xglamo to get Xinerama fix needed for Qtopia Jul 29 10:49:59 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r6e510c65a26b 10/packages/python/python-efl.inc: python-efl.inc: remove bashisms to make the Ubuntu crew happy Jul 29 10:50:00 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rbddd79cac3e1 10/packages/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [bashism] Move away from pushd/popd as it is only available for bash Jul 29 10:50:00 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r1bd26d7669ff 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade opkg to get fixes for memory management Jul 29 10:50:50 Zorkman: yes Jul 29 10:51:36 whereabouts in the SVN repository (if anywhere?) should i be looking if i wanted to hack about with, say, the EFL or Qt stuff? at the moment i can only see remnants of GTK stuff Jul 29 10:54:11 Is it possible to see what have been changed, before the opkg upgrade is being run on the neo..? Jul 29 10:54:28 some kind of changelog Jul 29 10:54:43 preferably readable by humans also.. :) Jul 29 10:56:45 weiß git.openmoko.asu.devel Jul 29 10:57:03 Bubbi: opkg -test upgrade Jul 29 10:57:12 not realy humanreadable Jul 29 10:57:26 Zorkman: opkg upgrade makes my system unbootabke Jul 29 10:57:27 grrrrrr Jul 29 10:58:29 Guilt that was what we were talking about a while ago Jul 29 10:58:36 i see theres a little card with a quote (?) by LaoTse. is that the same quote in all the phones? Jul 29 10:58:50 ASAIK it is Jul 29 10:59:07 thanks. Jul 29 10:59:25 in 2007.2, where does the animation in the titlebar when starting an application come from? Jul 29 10:59:25 hmm.. yeah okay, It's just that I never really liked to just upgrade and not know what is going to be changed.. As Guilt says, it could render the device unable to boot.. Jul 29 11:00:16 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1680 mentiones a 20080729-asu.stable-rootfs.jffs2 Jul 29 11:00:21 where can i get that? Jul 29 11:00:33 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/ only goes to 0728 Jul 29 11:03:09 Zorkman: They may have removed the 0729 folder.. It's not every day that the build goes through.. Jul 29 11:04:13 there's no 0726 folder either Jul 29 11:06:28 true, but i have never seen an image with "asu.stable" in the name :) Jul 29 11:07:57 ah, heh but as there's mentioned in the ticket, it's not stable :P Jul 29 11:09:14 :) if it's only not being able to scroll in exposure.... i haven't even been able to launch exposure :) Jul 29 11:09:25 haha Jul 29 11:10:02 Is ASU better than the 2007.02 image? I've just got the neo this friday and i've not yet tried anything else, but it seems that most people are interested in the ASU ..? Jul 29 11:10:35 everyone answers to this question with "it's flavour" Jul 29 11:10:56 is it possible yet to sync calendar data with iCal files? Jul 29 11:11:14 btw Bubbi: if you dualboot you can have them both ;) Jul 29 11:11:56 :) I'm very interested in knowing how to dualboot then.. :D Jul 29 11:12:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD says it all Jul 29 11:12:22 I'm not an experienced Linux user as I get the feeling that most users here are.. So I'm quite lost for most part Jul 29 11:12:35 Ah, thank you :P I'll take a look at that guide then.. Jul 29 11:12:46 Bubbi: I never really used lenux before my freerunner arrived, don't worry ;) Jul 29 11:12:47 Guten morning, everyone! Jul 29 11:12:53 llo Dave Jul 29 11:13:11 Hallo Zorkman :] Jul 29 11:13:16 btw Bubbi: i would recommend you to flash your uboot first, that way you will not havento change the uboot paramters Jul 29 11:13:19 :P good to know that i'm not the only one.. Jul 29 11:13:33 Would anyone care to send me the kernel-headers? :P Jul 29 11:13:43 if you tell me how, i'll do it :p Jul 29 11:13:59 hehe Jul 29 11:14:18 Zorkman: i've already flashed it, but that was a few days ago.. And just seen that there's already another one out there.. Jul 29 11:14:32 no if your uboot is only a few days old it will be allright Jul 29 11:14:38 okay.. Jul 29 11:16:11 Zorkman: Well.. i'm at work right now, so it will have to wait for tonight for me to play with dualbooting.. although I really would like to try it right now.. :D Jul 29 11:16:32 but thanks for the link.. I'll try it when I get home.. Jul 29 11:17:18 np, if you follow the wiki, it should work great Jul 29 11:17:35 ecraven! Jul 29 11:17:43 I choose you! Jul 29 11:17:43 cool :) Jul 29 11:17:56 Orh maaaan.. I never get chosen.. Jul 29 11:18:02 Dave: ;) Jul 29 11:18:04 :D Jul 29 11:18:09 :D Jul 29 11:18:22 So Ecraven, could you send me the kernel headers please? :P Jul 29 11:19:01 or who was the guy fighting with me about that, last time... :x Jul 29 11:19:04 what kernel headers? Jul 29 11:19:12 for the openmoko arm kernel Jul 29 11:19:52 anybody know why the neo (2007.02 image) continue to resume from the suspend, when set to "dim first, then lock", every few minutes.. Is it the GSM modem that sends out "pings" to the antennas..? Jul 29 11:20:20 Bubbi, because it doesn't quite work properly yet :) Jul 29 11:21:28 I guessed that.. :P the entire freerunner doesn't work properly yet.. :D but it was more a "do we actually know why it happens" question.. :P Jul 29 11:22:02 Bubbi: accelerometers or gsm, not sure though Jul 29 11:22:19 when it has just susspended, try to shake it and see what happens :) Jul 29 11:22:33 :P Jul 29 11:22:35 but i also had it with a phone that was not being moved Jul 29 11:22:37 Mine never wakes up :) Jul 29 11:22:38 accelerometers it can't really be.. I can shake it all I want, and it doesn't resume.. so it have to be something else.. Jul 29 11:22:43 haha Jul 29 11:22:49 I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or bad thing in this case :D Jul 29 11:23:02 suspend seems to work much better in the asu Jul 29 11:23:04 :P Jul 29 11:23:10 but havent done any battery testing Jul 29 11:23:18 yeah, but nothing else does :P Jul 29 11:23:18 Another good reason to use ASU.. :) Jul 29 11:23:22 :D Jul 29 11:23:43 I think diversity and assassin are now both at 0.0.1 Jul 29 11:23:49 for whatever that's worth... *rolls eyes* Jul 29 11:23:53 If anybody needs a tester of some thought, I'd be happy to help out.. Jul 29 11:24:22 We could always use more complainers... ;) Jul 29 11:24:28 I'm not really a developer (web-development doesn't help that much on the neo), but i'm quite good at finding bugs.. :P Jul 29 11:24:41 * Dave is good at breaking things :D Jul 29 11:24:50 * Dave hides from Chox Jul 29 11:24:56 but for now, that doesn't seem to be a problem, as there's lots of bugs.. Jul 29 11:24:59 haha.. Jul 29 11:25:00 * Zorkman is quite good at eating, so that's what he's going to do Jul 29 11:25:06 :p Jul 29 11:25:16 Remember to clean up afterwards.. ;) Jul 29 11:25:16 hungry hungry zorkmen Jul 29 11:25:41 * Dave beats the kernel headers out of ecraven Jul 29 11:26:16 Zorkman: i'll go flash this at home Jul 29 11:26:22 doing it in office takes an eternity Jul 29 11:26:39 the worst part is the phone is unusable Jul 29 11:26:46 Dave: i never installed or needed any kernel headers Jul 29 11:26:52 :[ Jul 29 11:26:54 but you should get them at www.kernel.org Jul 29 11:27:03 I looked the other day! Jul 29 11:27:25 and didn't finded them :( Jul 29 11:28:04 Will you help me find my kernel headers, mommy? :) Jul 29 11:28:14 does opkg do something really BAD? Jul 29 11:28:17 :P Jul 29 11:28:47 guilt, yes, it's quite the naughty piece of software... Jul 29 11:29:07 but I don't believe it will murder your wife ;) Jul 29 11:29:43 Dave: what exactly do you need, and what for? Jul 29 11:30:57 oy -_- Jul 29 11:31:21 I'm trying to build some modules for the linux kernel, since the phone does not apparently provide support for them automatically Jul 29 11:31:41 this is what sparked that heated debate the last time I was here, because I didn't want to simply cross-compile them using the toolchain :P Jul 29 11:31:45 blargh Jul 29 11:32:31 light pen! Jul 29 11:32:35 * Kamping_Kaiser flicks it on and off Jul 29 11:33:01 Laser-guided shower radios Jul 29 11:33:51 hehe, do uname -a on the phone, then go to www.kernel.org, and get the appropriate tar.bz2, then take the include directory from there Jul 29 11:35:01 Kamping_Kaiser: I burnt the laser out on mine :( Jul 29 11:35:10 -_- Jul 29 11:35:13 haw Jul 29 11:35:28 it does make an ace kitty toy though :) Jul 29 11:36:08 Tig|, :( is it easy to do? Jul 29 11:36:10 bah Jul 29 11:36:44 Kamping_Kaiser: well I was using it a lot to tease the cat with for a few days :) Jul 29 11:36:59 I think it was because i was holding it on lots Jul 29 11:37:17 Tig|, can it be fixed/replaced? i want to use mine :/ Jul 29 11:37:54 Kamping_Kaiser: we are talking about the laser pointer on the pen yes? Jul 29 11:38:07 yes Jul 29 11:38:58 welll they are only a couple of quid new Jul 29 11:39:11 hi Jul 29 11:39:12 heil Jul 29 11:40:04 which version of ASU image is stable? Jul 29 11:40:11 hahaha Jul 29 11:40:18 * Dave dies of laughter. Jul 29 11:41:35 * Kamping_Kaiser decide its going to take him a while to ge tused to the UI Jul 29 11:43:35 zogs: none is fully stable Jul 29 11:43:55 Come back next year :) Jul 29 11:44:05 which version is better? Jul 29 11:44:09 zogs: flash the latest kernel and flash the latest rootfs (0722)- and wait a while for opkg update becauze right now if brakes the asu Jul 29 11:44:36 ok , thanks Zorkman Jul 29 11:44:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images Jul 29 11:44:42 Make your own decision :) Jul 29 11:45:10 although as you keen see @ http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1680 there is a root file system:20080729-asu.stable-rootfs.jffs2 (STABLE!! :P) Jul 29 11:46:26 I have some problem to install virtual keyboard with last image Jul 29 11:47:47 /awaits the inevitable Jul 29 11:48:05 I installed python-core , while running application got import errors (subprocess module). so do I need to install modules separately? Jul 29 11:48:44 what was it importing? Jul 29 11:50:29 ecraven, why is this so complicated? Jul 29 11:50:38 Furthermore, why does kernel.org's site blow so much. Jul 29 11:51:48 kd8ikt:No module named subprocess, Jul 29 11:51:57 hi Jul 29 11:51:58 I don't want a motherfucking patch, I want the goddamned kernel source! Jul 29 11:51:59 grr Jul 29 11:53:06 >:( Jul 29 11:53:50 i love the lock screen thing <3 Jul 29 11:54:16 Kamping_Kaiser: yeah, it's pretty annoying. Jul 29 11:54:20 and terrible. Jul 29 11:54:58 Hey guys, If I have a list of files, with the format FILENAMEFILESIZEMODIFIED how would I organize them with bash from largest to smallest? I know it can be done I just dont know which tool to look at manuals for Jul 29 11:55:17 Ooops heh waaay wrong room Jul 29 11:55:25 * Dave throws bitbake out the window Jul 29 11:55:46 how do i check if I use xglamo of xfbdev? Jul 29 11:55:47 use perl :P Jul 29 11:55:55 zorkman, or? Jul 29 11:56:01 yes or Jul 29 11:56:43 ps -eo pcpu,pid,user,args |grep glamo? Jul 29 11:56:59 hey Jul 29 11:57:06 Dave: use your local mirror of kernel.org ;) Jul 29 11:57:16 can someone do a a "opkg list_installed" on their OM2007.2 machine and send it to me? Jul 29 11:57:38 https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1244#comment:23 says the wrong offset only happens when you use xglamo and nog xfbdev Jul 29 11:57:43 anyone here familiar with matchbox-desktop? why does it not show buttons that i have defined in theme.xml? all other apps show them Jul 29 11:58:05 i though xfbdev didn't support rotation? Jul 29 11:58:10 but when i do a ps -eo pcpu,pid,user,args i get fbdev entries and glamo entries :s Jul 29 11:58:23 ecraven :( Jul 29 11:58:35 I was, presumably, at mirrors.kernel.org Jul 29 11:58:35 hwo can i check if "check if /usr/bin/Xglamo is running" is running? Jul 29 11:58:47 ps ax | grep Xglamo Jul 29 11:58:49 it had pretty much every distribution of linux, except the fucking kernel, or arm :D Jul 29 11:58:56 if it has any output, xglamo is running Jul 29 11:59:08 otherwise try "ps ax | grep Xfbdev" Jul 29 11:59:18 that should produce some output, if Xfbdev is running Jul 29 11:59:55 root 1447 0.4 4.3 8920 5480 ? S< 07:41 0:04 /usr/bin/Xglamo :0 -pn -dpi 285 -screen 480x640 -hide-cursor -root-ppm /usr/share/pixmaps/xsplash-vga.ppm Jul 29 11:59:59 :P Jul 29 12:00:19 ecraven: i get both resulst for grep Xglamo of for grep fbdev: http://pastebin.org/58157 Jul 29 12:00:22 blamo Jul 29 12:01:19 Zorkman: yes, that's ok. ps ax shows you all running processes, grep tries to filter. the only running program that has Xglamo is grep (which is what you started to filter the list). so Xglamo is not running Jul 29 12:01:33 otoh for fbdev the second line shows that Xfbdev is up and running Jul 29 12:01:39 so for you, randr should work ;) Jul 29 12:01:49 damn :( that measn thomas g is not right ..... Jul 29 12:02:16 oh, you still have the rotate bug? Jul 29 12:02:29 I have it...*partially* Jul 29 12:02:40 i'm trying to find Xfbdev for debian atm Jul 29 12:02:53 ecraven - thanks Jul 29 12:03:00 Dave: for what? Jul 29 12:03:05 How to search packages to install into device? Jul 29 12:03:06 it works but stops working when i click on a corner and then click somewhere distant from that corner Jul 29 12:03:17 (it's described in the bug) Jul 29 12:03:27 I'm guessing it's: linux-2.6.24.1.tar.gz ;) Jul 29 12:03:35 or 2.6.24 Jul 29 12:04:16 So ecraven, how's that debian install doing? :P Jul 29 12:04:33 very fine, working nicely, playing around with matchbox and trying to get a good theme Jul 29 12:05:22 :D Jul 29 12:05:31 Does it function for the most part, then? Jul 29 12:05:38 yes Jul 29 12:05:45 I heard others complaining it was unusable due to X, Y, and Z. Jul 29 12:05:47 i didn't try gsm so far, but gps works Jul 29 12:05:54 what are X, Y and Z? Jul 29 12:06:08 Some unspecified issues. Jul 29 12:06:17 ;) specify! Jul 29 12:06:22 ecraven, did you test against tango? Jul 29 12:06:35 Ecraven I'm using them as placeholders, since I don't KNOW what the issues are/were. Jul 29 12:06:40 I just remember hearing big complaints. Jul 29 12:06:42 :[ Jul 29 12:06:43 yes, tangogps works Jul 29 12:06:48 well, yes, it should Jul 29 12:06:53 It's built for debian :P Jul 29 12:07:48 germans -_- Jul 29 12:08:11 yay! under Xfbdev landscape mode seems to work perfectly! Jul 29 12:09:49 :O Jul 29 12:09:58 so it IS an Xglamo bug, then? :P Jul 29 12:10:07 or that would likely explain it, anyway. :) Jul 29 12:10:33 yes Jul 29 12:11:10 ecraven: there seems to be a bug with xfbdev also Jul 29 12:11:21 in what way? Jul 29 12:11:29 I posted it on the bug: Jul 29 12:12:05 if you click on a corner, and afterwards you click at a point some distance away from that corner, you get an offset equally to the distance you clicked away from it Jul 29 12:12:12 (with acertain maximum) Jul 29 12:12:24 :o Jul 29 12:12:26 doesn't happen to me, i think Jul 29 12:12:32 ecraven is hax. Jul 29 12:12:37 i click in the left lower corner, then the center of the screen Jul 29 12:12:44 nothing special happens ;) the cursor is still ok afterwards Jul 29 12:12:58 What is supposed to happen, Zorkman? Jul 29 12:12:59 but Xfbdev is slooooow Jul 29 12:13:34 is it? :P Jul 29 12:13:45 slower than the usual shitty slowness of openmoko? :P Jul 29 12:13:47 yes, i can watch urxvt as it renders its window Jul 29 12:13:50 much slower Jul 29 12:13:53 ecraven: do you really lick on the corner? I mean, as far away from the middle as possible Jul 29 12:14:01 yes Jul 29 12:14:07 lol :) lick=click Jul 29 12:14:30 maybe it's a bug in scummvm Jul 29 12:14:44 how do i manually rotate the display.? xrand -o 1? Jul 29 12:14:44 haha, that's much more likely :P Jul 29 12:14:48 lick the corner? :o Jul 29 12:14:50 oooh, kinky Jul 29 12:14:54 do i need to add a display? Jul 29 12:15:27 xrandr -o 1 Jul 29 12:15:27 Can't open display Jul 29 12:15:34 export DISPLAY=:0 Jul 29 12:15:34 DISPPLAY=0 or something? Jul 29 12:16:05 hha Jul 29 12:16:09 whoa! beneath a steel sky works ;) now i need to find out how to toggle fullscreen without a keyboard, then i'm set! Jul 29 12:16:23 :D Jul 29 12:16:28 ecraven no luck with AUX? Jul 29 12:16:32 and then you need to tell us :p Jul 29 12:16:52 sekret haxes :o Jul 29 12:16:53 i still need to write a small daemon that allows me to run an application on input events Jul 29 12:17:02 yeah, that WOULD be ideal :) Jul 29 12:17:04 hello, I just flashed my freerunner with the FSO image. that worked well. then i did an "opkg update && opkg upgrade" and after a restart the software freezes while booting. do i need to reflash it? how can i find out what causes the freeze? Jul 29 12:17:22 it's been posted what causes the freeze loonyxp Jul 29 12:17:35 Zorkman: devel list? Jul 29 12:17:57 Zorkman: i mean, where? :) Jul 29 12:18:22 i'll search Jul 29 12:18:34 thx Jul 29 12:18:37 if someon is interesting in customazing today screen http://www.d3p.pl/2006_green/index.php?dir=40&lang=pl gui for it :) (om-gta01) Jul 29 12:18:44 ecraven, so I just have to copy the include directory of this kernel tarball to ... uhh, where again? :) /lib/modules/2.6.24/build/? :) Jul 29 12:18:53 loonyxp: there was a bug report on it Jul 29 12:19:10 Dave: hm.. actually, not sure, i never install it by hand ;) Jul 29 12:19:12 Zorkman: on freesmartphone.org? Jul 29 12:19:21 *(trac) Jul 29 12:19:25 :[ Jul 29 12:19:34 but I have no other choice here, since it doesn't come with it :P Jul 29 12:19:42 and there doesn't appear to be a package for it either :( Jul 29 12:19:53 (I guess no one has needed to do this before) :x Jul 29 12:20:02 (or no one is that crazy enough to do so) XD Jul 29 12:20:21 loonyxp: no on the docs.openmoko.org/trac Jul 29 12:20:39 Zorkman: ok Jul 29 12:20:49 hm.. no game ;( something's still wrong Jul 29 12:21:13 S.O.S. please somebody help me... \o\ /o/ \o\ /o/ \o\ /o/ Jul 29 12:22:49 loonyxp: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1678 Jul 29 12:23:07 Zorkman: thank you very much! Jul 29 12:25:31 Uggh, Joerg, USB2 PLEASE! Jul 29 12:25:39 these transfers are unbearable :P Jul 29 12:26:41 Dave: I know :-/ But for dfu-util it's speed of nand, not speed of usb that's the limiting factor Jul 29 12:27:16 at least hat's what i've been told Jul 29 12:27:46 Zorkman: I'm not sure if this is the same issue since my freerunner does not get to starting the xserver, it freezes before Jul 29 12:27:53 :( Jul 29 12:28:02 goldenhawk: can you remember me link for ASU keyboard? Jul 29 12:28:07 loonyxp: did you wait a while? Jul 29 12:28:07 Joerg, I'm transferring the kernel sources over USB :P Jul 29 12:28:17 :-D Jul 29 12:28:21 It took several minutes :P Jul 29 12:28:29 I'm just glad I didn't run out of space ;) Jul 29 12:28:36 hm.. scummvm without a keyboard seems not too good ;( Jul 29 12:28:39 can't skip the intro Jul 29 12:28:43 ecraven, you noticed. Jul 29 12:28:43 loonyxp: It happened to me with the ASU, it kept showing me the bootscreen, after a while it stoppend and showed me the last message was "starting x" or something familiar Jul 29 12:28:45 what for do you need the kernelsources on FR??? WTF?! Jul 29 12:28:46 :( Jul 29 12:28:53 joerg, I think I am crazy! Jul 29 12:29:02 I am going to compile kernel modules on the openmoko! :D Jul 29 12:29:10 lol Jul 29 12:29:23 Zorkman: aha, ok, then I'll wait a little and see whats happening... at the moment i can't ssh into it Jul 29 12:29:23 :D Jul 29 12:29:35 tell me what's your result on this cracy idea! :-) Jul 29 12:29:46 Okay :) Jul 29 12:29:50 Do you think I am insane? :P Jul 29 12:29:59 DAve, jOERG_rw someone lese is also doing this (except when Benedikt Schindler = dave ) Jul 29 12:30:10 :o Jul 29 12:30:23 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/024158.html Jul 29 12:30:33 :O Jul 29 12:30:55 or maybe i'm just a noob that doesn't see these are two entirely different things :) Jul 29 12:31:05 maybe Jul 29 12:31:05 ah, the possibilities :) Jul 29 12:32:22 yay! works ;) with matchbox-keyboard Jul 29 12:32:34 Yeah, they are Jul 29 12:32:37 ecraven :O Jul 29 12:32:47 * Dave readies his treasure sack Jul 29 12:33:21 if i can get scummvm to fullscreen, things don't seem so bleak any more Jul 29 12:34:03 Zorkman: were you able to shut it down with the powerbutton when it "freezed"? Jul 29 12:34:57 loonyxp: by pressing and holding it i think Jul 29 12:35:22 Zorkman: ok, this ssems to be a different problem, since i cannot switch it of (only by taking out the battery) Jul 29 12:35:23 ecraven: scummvm starts fullscreen here... did you use the ipk package posted in the wiki? Jul 29 12:36:15 how to search packages (like apt-cache search )?(opkg search is not resulting anything) Jul 29 12:36:28 Zorkman: no, debian ;) Jul 29 12:36:32 opkg list |grep package Jul 29 12:36:54 hehe, just activated the fullscreen checkbox under Options Jul 29 12:36:59 or opkg list > list.txt && cat list.txt |grep packages Jul 29 12:37:19 though i don't have a keyboard now, and no way to exit it ;-/ Jul 29 12:37:30 zogs: thank you Jul 29 12:37:31 me to Jul 29 12:37:34 :D Jul 29 12:39:54 ecraven: you know a lot more about all this, how difficult would it be to have a pop-up keyboard with a few buttons? (or use accelerometers) Jul 29 12:40:07 not too hard, i believe Jul 29 12:40:18 not sure what happens if an application is fullscreen.. a second, i'll try Jul 29 12:40:42 also it would be usefull if one could use the headphones with it, it might annoy people :) Jul 29 12:40:46 hm.. nothing ;( seems if it is fullscreen, we'd have to trick it somehow Jul 29 12:41:03 oh, the headphones should work, if you can get the mixer settings right (which isn't too easy, with about 100 controls) Jul 29 12:41:32 just out of curiousity: do you get the wrong offset when pressing in a corner with scummvm? Jul 29 12:41:52 yes ;) Jul 29 12:41:59 gah, the kernel tree is so confusing now Jul 29 12:41:59 yeah, whenever i use alsamixer it seems like a i have enough speakers to give an open-air concert :) Jul 29 12:42:53 Zorkman: it seems to happen whenever i click outside scummvm's actual window Jul 29 12:42:58 there's a bit of a border at the top/bottom there Jul 29 12:43:05 if you click somewhere there, things go wrong Jul 29 12:43:35 ecraven: i though in fullscreen it would nnot have a window... : Jul 29 12:43:52 it seems it does Jul 29 12:44:06 there's a bit of a black line at the top and at the bottom. about 15 pixels or so i think Jul 29 12:44:08 * Dave tries to compile Jul 29 12:47:00 DAve: what are you trying to do? Jul 29 12:47:11 and will it counter global pollution? Jul 29 12:47:12 Failure :( Jul 29 12:47:19 shit Jul 29 12:47:29 shit does produces an awfull lot of CO2... Jul 29 12:47:32 this would be SO much easier if there were a freakin' kernel package Jul 29 12:47:34 haha :P Jul 29 12:47:46 man, this notebook is running etch Jul 29 12:47:56 * Zorkman looks up etch Jul 29 12:48:00 I wonder if I can just copy my linux kernel tree over :P Jul 29 12:48:07 * Dave baits ecraven Jul 29 12:48:08 hm.. beneath-a-steel-sky doesn't work well ;( Jul 29 12:48:11 Dave: try it ;) Jul 29 12:48:14 haha Jul 29 12:48:15 Zorkman: it's a debian version Jul 29 12:48:22 yeah i found the info about i :) Jul 29 12:48:23 could only result in what, some minor explosions? ;) Jul 29 12:48:35 ecraven I run make config on the phone, but I get incomplete kernel tree errorss :( Jul 29 12:48:39 ecraven: monkey island 2 does work Jul 29 12:48:45 Zorkman: monkey island 1 too ;) Jul 29 12:48:46 Zorkman, oh hot! Jul 29 12:48:57 You guys better let me in on this awesomeness later Jul 29 12:49:01 havent tried MI3 because i don't have a big enough sd Jul 29 12:49:01 bass has problems with the mouse, in fullscreen mode Jul 29 12:49:03 once I'm done fucking around with these drivers Jul 29 12:49:43 hehe, double-clicking with a stylus is .. strange Jul 29 12:50:04 :D Jul 29 12:50:06 hot Jul 29 12:50:13 ok, windowed works, there are issues with scummvm and fullscreen Jul 29 12:50:17 otherwise, it works fine Jul 29 12:50:32 ecraven, that's disappointing :( Jul 29 12:50:40 is it *too* small, to work with? :[ Jul 29 12:50:41 or enjoy Jul 29 12:51:01 if you were to make an introductory presentation on Openmoko and FreeRunner, what topics would you cover? Jul 29 12:51:10 *or address? Jul 29 12:51:14 bwahahahahahah ecraven Jul 29 12:52:06 no, big enough ;) Jul 29 12:52:10 a minute, i'll try a screenshot Jul 29 12:52:15 mbuf: begin with the usual stuff? openness of hardware/software, hardware present? Jul 29 12:52:38 Zorkman, ok Jul 29 12:52:42 ecraven - cool :D Jul 29 12:52:43 don't talk too much about the software ;-p Jul 29 12:52:46 I'd be glad to see :) Jul 29 12:52:48 heehee Jul 29 12:52:55 yeah or it might explode on you! :D Jul 29 12:53:08 oh, ecraven, have you tried running aptitude on the phone yet? Jul 29 12:53:10 Hi Jul 29 12:53:19 mbuf: then you can talk about the possibilites, maybe give a fex axamples from the communit... Jul 29 12:53:21 no, i don't like aptitude, i only use apt-get/-cache Jul 29 12:53:29 Zorkman, sure Jul 29 12:53:32 llo goro Jul 29 12:53:37 play monkey island! on your phone!! ;) Jul 29 12:53:47 yeah :) Jul 29 12:53:57 hm.. problem about bass, no way to right-click with the pen Jul 29 12:54:26 gesture recogniser :) Jul 29 12:54:30 Hi,zorkman,where are yo come from? Jul 29 12:54:43 screenshot of scummvm: http://eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at/tmp/bass.png Jul 29 12:54:46 belgium goro Jul 29 12:55:58 and you goro are from jakarta? Jul 29 12:56:03 ecraven: That's niftiness : Jul 29 12:56:04 :) Jul 29 12:56:15 ecraven: whats it running on? Jul 29 12:56:16 ecraven: Tap-and-hold :) Jul 29 12:56:29 toggles_1: debian ;) Jul 29 12:56:30 yes,how you now? Jul 29 12:56:39 ecraven: sorry, what device Jul 29 12:56:43 ip trace :) Jul 29 12:56:46 FR here ;) Jul 29 12:56:50 but it should work on anything that has scummvm and Xfbdev (not Xglamo) Jul 29 12:56:55 leinir: tap and hold? Jul 29 12:57:07 on a free runner? damn, whats your base os? Jul 29 12:57:12 debian ;) Jul 29 12:57:17 on a 4gb sd card Jul 29 12:57:20 toggles_1: it also runs on the asu Jul 29 12:57:22 i'm playing around a lot, compiler etc. Jul 29 12:57:25 ecraven: right-clicking on stylus devices :) (you'll need to hack the input but that's how you'd do it :) ) Jul 29 12:57:28 wow, cool Jul 29 12:57:29 it should work on 2007.2 if you use Xfbdev instead of Xglamo Jul 29 12:57:40 leinir: that would be great Jul 29 12:58:01 i thought about using the aux button, but i'll need that for ESC and F5 in scummvm anyway ;( Jul 29 12:58:30 why doesn't matchbox-desktop show proper titlebar decorations? Jul 29 12:58:31 The guy doing the Plasma SoC project for small form-factor devices showed off doing that on a freerunner in a screencast a couple of weeks ago, i shall attempt to locate it :) Jul 29 12:58:31 ecraven: in the ipk file i have, aux is supposed to be F5 but it doesn't work... i suppose there is no way i can manually fix this? Jul 29 12:58:59 Zorkman: you only need xdotool and something that monitors /dev/event4 and runs xdotool key F5 whenever you press aux Jul 29 12:59:12 i'm thinking about hacking an event server, that can be configured to run arbitrary code on events Jul 29 12:59:23 as i still haven't found anything that can do that :( Jul 29 12:59:44 ecraven: There --> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3540 Jul 29 13:00:33 leinir -> /usr/qtopia/whore Jul 29 13:01:17 leinir: interesting. i have no idea how event filters work, but that should be good ;) Jul 29 13:01:41 * leinir curtsies to Dave "At Your service, Sir" ;) Jul 29 13:01:54 tap-and-hold for 1s or so without moving much would be cool Jul 29 13:02:27 *nods* :) Jul 29 13:02:51 bahaha Jul 29 13:02:53 ;) Jul 29 13:03:32 ecraven: Score is -7686 Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?] Jul 29 13:03:37 rut roh Jul 29 13:03:43 score? Jul 29 13:03:45 do you know where I can find repository for libcairo2 (>= 1.6.4), libcairo2 (>= 1.6.4) and libpulse0 (>= 0.0.10) ?? Jul 29 13:03:56 zogs, they're both in main Jul 29 13:04:13 check buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armvt4l/ Jul 29 13:04:16 they're all in there Jul 29 13:04:28 or were last time I checked ;) Jul 29 13:05:00 ecraven, I updated my linux-kernel-headers and suddely aptitude wants to remove eighty packages :P Jul 29 13:05:02 thanks Jul 29 13:05:38 Dave: hehe, it does that.. use apt-get! Jul 29 13:06:06 bah Jul 29 13:06:12 it's not going to matter, silly :P Jul 29 13:08:00 removing one million packages... Jul 29 13:08:10 ecraven: do you have any ideas if other games/emulators would be possible on the freerunner or will they run too slow? Jul 29 13:08:28 with Xfbdev probably, but if Xglamo works, things should be ok Jul 29 13:08:45 should be hope for Xglamo to ever work? Jul 29 13:08:48 i've never used anything except scummvm, so i wouldn't know though Jul 29 13:08:52 of course ;) Jul 29 13:09:11 i've had a look at the glamo source code yesterday, but i have *no* idea where to start looking :( Jul 29 13:10:00 it's scary warey :p Jul 29 13:11:36 uggh, thanks for ballooning aptitude, I really appreciate that. Jul 29 13:12:12 hi guys Jul 29 13:12:27 I did an opkg upgrade, now it doesn't boot - it says bad magic number Jul 29 13:13:19 have you checked your pentagrams lately :-) Jul 29 13:13:27 :D Jul 29 13:13:42 why isn't there a way to "flag" opkg updates as defect? Jul 29 13:14:19 there just have to be at least 100people who's device doesn't boot anymore after that opkg upgrade since yesterday... Jul 29 13:14:57 even more.. Jul 29 13:14:58 Zorkman, is'nt it easier not to push an defective update ? Jul 29 13:15:11 HauDyr: it's not pushed Jul 29 13:15:30 you are updating to "nightly builds" which are officially of alpha quality Jul 29 13:15:41 then shoved down their throats :-) Jul 29 13:15:42 which means, they may or may not work... Jul 29 13:15:46 does anyone have the original /etc/opkg directory which he could share? Jul 29 13:16:20 Hey bumble :D Jul 29 13:16:25 fuck ASU ...unstable !! Jul 29 13:16:30 hi Davy Jul 29 13:16:30 hahaha, zogs. Jul 29 13:16:32 very unstable Jul 29 13:16:40 No kidding :P Jul 29 13:16:45 bumbl: i think i have Jul 29 13:16:45 Bill_, ok its automatic Jul 29 13:16:51 update* Jul 29 13:16:52 ?? Jul 29 13:17:30 bumbl: it's one for the asu though Jul 29 13:17:30 the builds are indeed automaticly done... Jul 29 13:17:31 the getting started page recommends an opkg upgrade Jul 29 13:17:38 Bill_, i ment "i understand" Jul 29 13:18:00 trs80: and it was a good recommendation til yesterday :) Jul 29 13:18:06 Zorkman: because I think you have to mix donwloads.openmoko.org repositories with the buildhost.openmoko.org repositories Jul 29 13:18:34 i can also give you my working opkg folder... Jul 29 13:18:44 Zorkman: would you mind to uploading somewhere? Jul 29 13:18:50 np Jul 29 13:19:07 just give me a sec to find my way through linux :) Jul 29 13:19:43 nice, now i have a button to rotate my screen around ;) Jul 29 13:20:21 I want rotate with accelerometer sensor Jul 29 13:20:25 bumbl: damn, my username and login of webspace are stored in my windows OS... i'll upload them with some webserver Jul 29 13:20:41 bumbl: you want the original ASU ones or the modified ones? Jul 29 13:21:10 Bill_, but what we then need is someting like testing and unstable in debian (if its not like that already) Jul 29 13:21:33 well.. we have Jul 29 13:21:40 good Jul 29 13:22:21 everything coming from nighly builds.. whether it's buildhost.openmoko.org or buildhost.autimated.it (scaredycat) is unstable Jul 29 13:22:30 Zorkman: both if possible; i do have a backup of nearly everything except the original /etc/opkg files. Jul 29 13:22:31 testing are the "releases" Jul 29 13:23:19 zogs: that's not hard, just read /dev/input/event2 (and 3), and call xrandr -o .. when appropriate Jul 29 13:23:44 HauDyr: what we would need is something like the dpkg status hold or package.mask Jul 29 13:24:10 hey haudryarab Jul 29 13:24:30 hey im an moistarab :-) Jul 29 13:24:52 * trs80 flashes a new kernel on Jul 29 13:25:12 now, i should really save an image of my SD card.. lest the FR breaks it again! Jul 29 13:25:21 ecraven: wouldn't that mean very heavy load reading /dev/input/event[2,3] all the time?? Jul 29 13:25:26 ecraven: yes but first I want a stable image on neo Jul 29 13:25:36 s/mean/cause/ Jul 29 13:25:37 bumbl meant: ecraven: wouldn't that cause very heavy load reading /dev/input/event[2,3] all the time?? Jul 29 13:25:38 bumbl: yes, that's why you shouldn't read from it all the time, but only now and then ;) Jul 29 13:26:54 evtest is a very useful tool ;) Jul 29 13:27:33 :P Jul 29 13:28:21 bumbl: http://www.sendspace.com/file/nt67im Jul 29 13:28:51 bumbl: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7zj95g Jul 29 13:29:01 Zorkman: thank you Jul 29 13:30:05 np Jul 29 13:32:11 bumbl: thank to you i learned something by doing a tar --help :) Jul 29 13:33:09 :D Jul 29 13:34:17 there a good remark on the mailinglist: Jul 29 13:34:29 why is openmoko developing its own gps app? Jul 29 13:34:32 bumbl: i receive about 287 events per second on /dev/input/event2 Jul 29 13:34:41 crap, this is so painful Jul 29 13:34:43 why not just modify tango gps so it doesn't need gpsd Jul 29 13:34:53 I'm trying to think who I was talking to the day I had that toolchain conversation Jul 29 13:34:55 Zorkman: why not use gpsd? Jul 29 13:34:59 Do you remember, ecraven? :) Jul 29 13:35:05 Oh, I remember it was Ainulindale! Jul 29 13:35:10 no, i never had much luck with toolchain Jul 29 13:35:17 well it does make sense to have something a bit more high level than gpsd... Jul 29 13:35:17 Dave: check in -cdevel Jul 29 13:35:20 ecraven: I know nothing, I'm from Barcelona :) but it seems to me if you can to something without another app, it's more efficient... no? Jul 29 13:35:38 ah, barcelona! beautiful city, awesome language ;) Jul 29 13:36:08 (I"m quoting "Manuel" from the series "Fawlty Towers" I'm actually from ugly belgium :)) -we do have great beer though :) Jul 29 13:36:43 hehe, never been to belgium ;( Jul 29 13:37:41 home of the french (/freedom :p) fries, chocolate and beer, otherwise not much to do except for a few beautifull cities Jul 29 13:37:54 hm.. would network-manager work on the neo? Jul 29 13:43:31 ecraven: try to compile and run it; i would try wicd (should run with no/slight modifications) first though because my experience shows that the networkmanager is quite unstable; you might also take a look at lint-wifi Jul 29 13:44:58 thanks! looking into wicd in a minute Jul 29 13:45:35 * Dave hails Ainulindale Jul 29 13:54:21 ;( hm.. wicd pulls in a lot of python and dbus and gtk ... Jul 29 13:57:09 Dave: What ? Jul 29 13:58:37 ecraven: yes Jul 29 13:58:38 dev-python/dbus-python Jul 29 13:58:40 dev-python/pygtk Jul 29 13:58:41 net-misc/dhcp Jul 29 13:58:43 net-wireless/wireless-tools Jul 29 13:58:44 net-wireless/wpa_supplicant Jul 29 13:58:46 sys-apps/ethtool Jul 29 13:59:13 but networkmanager will pull in more dependencies I think Jul 29 13:59:22 hm.. seems it wants rightclicking too ;( Jul 29 13:59:25 yes, definitely Jul 29 14:00:18 ecraven: well then clikc in the right button of your Fr ... maybe hold it a few secs :-) Jul 29 14:01:24 ecraven: you could try ceni, it's the sidux cli network connection script; all you need is a terminal and a keyboard Jul 29 14:01:40 ecraven: we can't hope anyways that we'll stick with the UI that NM originally has for gnome/kde Jul 29 14:01:45 bumbl: exactly what i don't have ;-P Jul 29 14:01:46 ui has to be rewritten anyway Jul 29 14:02:15 Ainulindale! Jul 29 14:03:26 Building drivers Jul 29 14:04:19 hmm, what do you think, which distribution is the way to go for neo1973 atm? Jul 29 14:05:10 newest asu doesn't seem to find its init at all :/ Jul 29 14:06:01 if the ui has to be rewitten than wicd might be a good try because as far as I can judge it it is very modular Jul 29 14:06:35 doesn't work too well so far ;( can't find any networks, even though iwlist eth0 scan shows a bunch Jul 29 14:07:09 openmoko: 03tick * r4562 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/opkg.c: Jul 29 14:07:09 openmoko: opkg: remove a serious memory leak Jul 29 14:07:09 openmoko: when searching every package opkg will clone the package but never released. Jul 29 14:09:09 bumbl: is there any way to run the daemon in debug mode, so i can see what it's doing? Jul 29 14:11:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r143b8ec88112 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): add fd.o launcher integration Jul 29 14:13:54 hmm, the last time I used wicd was 4 months ago; i thought it would do that automatically; you could try appending something like -v or wicd.py 2> debug and tail -f debug Jul 29 14:14:59 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r7f49522a4c0d 10/setup.py: fix fd.o integration paths Jul 29 14:15:06 hm.. what is the correct driver for the atheros? Jul 29 14:15:27 wext? Jul 29 14:15:30 wext Jul 29 14:15:37 wext ? Jul 29 14:15:54 yes for wpa_supplicant it is -Dwext Jul 29 14:16:03 oh, my bad, it assumes eth0 is wired Jul 29 14:16:04 oh Jul 29 14:16:43 normally eth0 is wired but normally there is a /root instead of /home/root Jul 29 14:17:03 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=543785 <- this might help for debugging Jul 29 14:17:10 yeah, eth0 is just a name Jul 29 14:17:29 for all *nix cares you can tell it to name your nic booger0 Jul 29 14:18:50 i heard yesterday that 7/21 was the most recent asu with the illume kb, is that right? Jul 29 14:19:26 hm.. there are a *lot* of problems ;) there's no "ip" in debian Jul 29 14:20:05 yay, connected to Foo at 203% ;-P Jul 29 14:20:09 :( Jul 29 14:21:29 Has anyone here experienced their kernel getting blown away? I did an opkg upgrade yesterday, and it reported that the kernel upgrade was successful. This morning, I reboot my FR, and uboot can't find a kernel. Jul 29 14:22:00 Andre613, normal behaviour Jul 29 14:22:08 kernel-upgrade package is broken Jul 29 14:22:50 ah... k so I just have to manually reflash the kernel, right? I was worried that the NAND was busted ;) Jul 29 14:22:57 yes Jul 29 14:23:04 simply reflash kernel via dfu Jul 29 14:23:09 thanks niap Jul 29 14:23:18 you're welcome Jul 29 14:23:45 with a bunch of modifications, wicd might work Jul 29 14:25:22 indeed.. wicd looks nice Jul 29 14:25:44 it's trying to find out whether wired is plugged in, and failing miserably Jul 29 14:26:45 what's the suggested image for a Neo to run as of today? Jul 29 14:27:43 debian!! ;) Jul 29 14:27:53 qtopia :) Jul 29 14:27:54 hmm I got opkg upgrade through the libcairo2 error Jul 29 14:28:08 Hello Jul 29 14:28:35 jadams__: i have the best reliability with asu, thou it is a bit sluggish Jul 29 14:28:41 When I plug my FR to my PC, sometimes I get: Jul 29 14:28:43 usb 3-2: device not accepting address 9, error -71 Jul 29 14:28:48 (on the host) Jul 29 14:28:50 but now it wants other dependencies: app-restarter splinter assassin-thumbnail Jul 29 14:28:59 does anyone know where to get them Jul 29 14:29:10 and the FR isn't recognized by the host. Jul 29 14:29:28 Btw the FR doesn't charge either :( Jul 29 14:29:55 AntonTakk: also usable daily? Jul 29 14:30:11 Sometimes rebooting the FreeRunner helps. Sometimes it doesn't... Does that happen to you? Jul 29 14:30:29 Bill_: ime, yes, i have been using the asu daily from 7/15 Jul 29 14:30:45 hmh.. ok.. got my fr only on friday so haven't had too much time yet Jul 29 14:30:56 altho have followed progress for some time now Jul 29 14:30:58 Hello :) Jul 29 14:31:15 Dave: hello Jul 29 14:31:25 Bill_: yeah, as soon as fso becomes a stable phone+address book, i'm switching to it Jul 29 14:31:38 does the kernel handle suspend by itself ? or do i need userspace software? Jul 29 14:31:38 qtopia seems reasonably stable and mature.. altho.. yes.. i know.. it's really not a openmoko distro Jul 29 14:32:02 i had a noticable bit of funkyness with qtopia Jul 29 14:32:09 AntonTakk: ok.. i'll look into it in couple of hours Jul 29 14:33:34 ecraven: i think you need userspace software; apm -s should suspend it Jul 29 14:36:40 AntonTakk, thanks Jul 29 14:39:03 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r1f6b788ac3c9 10/odeviced/ (11 files in 8 dirs): Jul 29 14:39:03 freesmartphone.org: * Renamed ODeviced.Plugin to ODeviced.PluginManager Jul 29 14:39:03 freesmartphone.org: * Changed Wifi DBus object path to be in sync with frameworkd Jul 29 14:41:19 AntonTakk, how do I put the ASU on the neo? I'm here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080728/ Jul 29 14:41:33 what are the preferred mixer applications on the FR? Jul 29 14:43:42 hehe, suspend seems to work nicely under debian. resume however... Jul 29 14:44:39 ecraven: do you have x and touchscreen etc all working? in other words: how close is debian to lets say 2007.02 ? Jul 29 14:44:55 yes, touchscreen works, with Xfbdev even with xrandr Jul 29 14:45:04 i'd say all the applications should work Jul 29 14:45:12 trying to get it to resume now Jul 29 14:45:20 but no calls yet? Jul 29 14:45:24 never tried Jul 29 14:45:37 but i have ttySAC0, and the same kernel, so i see no reason why it shouldn't work Jul 29 14:46:05 hm.. should resume "just work" with apmd? or do i need to configure it somehow Jul 29 14:46:08 also using gsmd ? or other phone server? like the one from FSO Jul 29 14:46:29 i haven't tried gsm yet, but gps works without a problem Jul 29 14:46:56 mmmm the FR has not acpi right? or not implemented via uboot? Jul 29 14:47:16 no acpi i think Jul 29 14:47:39 can anyone tell me where to find out how to install asu on the neo? that is, gta01 Jul 29 14:47:43 no acpi Jul 29 14:47:52 I only see gta02 images in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080728/ for uImage Jul 29 14:48:45 where can i configure when the FR is resumed? Jul 29 14:49:06 jadams__: that is because there most likely is a build error ... have a look at daily/neo1973/200807/20080721 Jul 29 14:49:16 Rigolo: no the freerunner uses apm Jul 29 14:49:17 Rigolo, thanks Jul 29 14:49:20 jadams__: sorry, was afk, flash it with dfu util, just like any software stack Jul 29 14:49:21 there I see a qtopia image Jul 29 14:49:44 bumbl: but is that a hardware limitation? or software? Jul 29 14:50:13 jadams__: you need the kernel from that day .. and the jffs2 rootfs image .. Jul 29 14:50:39 AntonTakk, I mean where can I find good images? Jul 29 14:50:45 Rigolo, but they say gta02 Jul 29 14:50:52 be carefull with opkg update/upgrade ... it might break your phone at the moment Jul 29 14:50:59 Rigolo: hmm looking at the current state of the openmoko software I would guess it is a software limitation by uboot; just a guess though Jul 29 14:51:12 acpi is pc stuff Jul 29 14:51:14 jadams__: the best i have found so far was the daily build from 7/15 Jul 29 14:51:16 jadams__: are you looking in the freerunner dirs? you have a neo1973 ... look in that subdir Jul 29 14:51:26 Rigolo, k Jul 29 14:51:38 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080721/ Jul 29 14:51:55 those are the latest that I can find on buildhost for the neo1973 Jul 29 14:52:25 mjr: so why do you think it is not handy on the FR? Jul 29 14:53:24 Rigolo: I ran update/upgrade, now i'm getting "wrong image format for bootm command - ERROR: can't get kernel image" Jul 29 14:53:34 is that what you're referring to when you said don't upgrade Jul 29 14:53:36 because the fr does not have an acpi bios? Jul 29 14:53:42 .... Jul 29 14:53:53 mike--2: well ... it looks like that .... Jul 29 14:53:58 acpi is a standard, on PCs it is implimented in bios Jul 29 14:54:07 ACPI is basically a PC thingy largely. Jul 29 14:54:14 Not so much on non-x86 Jul 29 14:54:16 in other things, perhaps it is implimented in other ways Jul 29 14:54:31 that could be Jul 29 14:54:42 * Rigolo never does an opkg upgrade without a -test ... first i want to see what is going to happen Jul 29 14:54:48 other things were designed to be energy concious to begin with :) Jul 29 14:55:05 but rigolo, how can you see if your device will boot after the upgrade? Jul 29 14:55:20 Zorkman: MAGIC! Jul 29 14:55:32 Zorkman: reboot it :-D Jul 29 14:55:44 well ... when I see a kernel update ... I usually think twice about it ... same on my desktop machine Jul 29 14:55:47 whoa Jul 29 14:56:25 the asu from 7/21 has the qwerty button and the qtopis kb :-\ Jul 29 14:56:26 so is there any way I can get the data off my phone without flashing it? Jul 29 14:56:37 I have some saved screenshots I wanted to get back Jul 29 14:56:37 Rigolo, thanks, I didn't look at the URL that the distributions page took me to to notice it was fr specific Jul 29 14:57:12 mike--2: can you still ssh into the phone? then you can scp things out Jul 29 14:57:28 interesting, Can I do this from the boot loader? Jul 29 14:57:44 mike--2: nope ... via usb networking ... see the wiki Jul 29 14:58:04 ... but the phone isn't booting, will USB Networking still work? Jul 29 14:58:13 yo Jul 29 14:58:18 AntonTakk: so that means easy switching between types of keyboard? Jul 29 14:58:48 mike--2: completly not booting? or X not starting? does it stay stuck on please wait? Jul 29 14:59:19 it doesn't get that far :-/ .. i'm stuck at the very first "OpenMoko" screen Jul 29 14:59:31 Rigolo: it was already easy with the illume kb Jul 29 15:00:11 mmm maybe I should try it again .... It was really slow I can remember ... too slow for me ... did that improve? Jul 29 15:00:34 as of 7/15 i thought it was fine, just took a little getting used to Jul 29 15:00:48 mike--2: I do not know if you can access the internal FS from uboot ... fear not Jul 29 15:02:21 rigolo the gigolo Jul 29 15:02:49 hi Jul 29 15:03:06 Rigolo: maybe i'll try to boot to SD and see if I can access anything that way Jul 29 15:03:18 mike--2: good luck .... Jul 29 15:03:34 after upgrading and installing a few apps, neo doesn't boot any more, I only get the open moko logo. is this a known problem? Jul 29 15:03:46 jopk: yes :-) Jul 29 15:03:57 that should be a "yes :-(" Jul 29 15:04:02 how to fix ? Jul 29 15:04:05 jopk: the fix is simple thou, reflash, and don't upgrade :) Jul 29 15:04:07 mmm maybe somebody can update the topic of this channel Jul 29 15:04:51 well ... upgrade with caution ... Jul 29 15:05:07 but installing apps and upgrade a few apps like sms tool or dialer is ok? Jul 29 15:05:29 mike--2: try to only flash the kernel ... and then see what happens Jul 29 15:05:36 jopk: personally, if any of the core apps work ok, i wouldn't touch them Jul 29 15:05:51 but installing apps shouldn't be an issue Jul 29 15:06:17 yeah, but some didn't work. ok thx. I'm going to reflash it Jul 29 15:07:15 how do you open your moko but with a fingernail? ;) Jul 29 15:07:38 jopk: you mean the back? Jul 29 15:07:40 jopk: a two euro coin .. but only if it is from san marino :-) Jul 29 15:07:56 antonTakk, yes Jul 29 15:08:08 i use a flat screwdriver... Jul 29 15:08:10 jopk: the notch at the top of the fr Jul 29 15:08:27 yes, but fingernail hurts a bit :( Jul 29 15:08:36 ... Jul 29 15:08:44 Rigolo: good idea, i'll try that Jul 29 15:08:47 tell it to grow a pair? ;) Jul 29 15:09:05 jopk: maybe try thumb nail? that's what i use Jul 29 15:10:36 does thumb not cout as finger? Jul 29 15:11:01 not if you ask a hand specialist :) Jul 29 15:11:10 no, that is what make us special .. our thumb :-) Jul 29 15:11:28 Rigolo: our one collective thumb? Jul 29 15:11:29 you can go all over the univers with just your thumb (and a towel) Jul 29 15:11:46 I ask you: do you have 8 or 10 fingers? Jul 29 15:11:54 8 Jul 29 15:11:58 lol Jul 29 15:11:58 and two thumbs Jul 29 15:12:10 two oposable thumbs Jul 29 15:12:23 rigolo: for under 20 (or something like that) altarian dollars a day :) Jul 29 15:12:34 actually ... only 6 ... and 2 thumbs .. and 2 pinkies :-) Jul 29 15:12:53 any fanboix in here wanna have a fight about how much things don't suck? Jul 29 15:13:12 nope ... it sucks big time .. and that is good :-) Jul 29 15:13:13 lol :) Jul 29 15:13:26 wht would you do if it didn't suck? use it? Jul 29 15:15:20 pinkies are nasty beasts, especially with the robotic hindquarters Jul 29 15:15:37 i'd have bought a 10-pack, put my apps on them, then sold the systems for profit. Jul 29 15:15:40 ;) Jul 29 15:16:02 torpor: and ... are your customers happy? Jul 29 15:16:07 nope Jul 29 15:16:13 they think the openmoko phone is a lame duck Jul 29 15:16:22 its a tragedy Jul 29 15:16:25 so now they want to return them to you? Jul 29 15:16:33 no, i haven't bought a 10 pack yet. Jul 29 15:16:46 on the mailinglists someone says he read FIC wants to sell 10.000.000 freerunners in 2008 :D Jul 29 15:16:47 thats what i would do if it didn't suck. Jul 29 15:17:12 look, i'm not saying it won't suck, just that there seems to e something going on with openmoko as a company that is making them produce crap. Jul 29 15:17:13 what would your pp be torpor? Jul 29 15:17:21 torpor: well .. you can always buy a 10 pack ... and build a beowulf cluster ;-) Jul 29 15:17:28 torpor: imho, anyone stupid enough to buy ANY product w/o understanding as much about it as possible first deserves any disapointment they get Jul 29 15:17:35 yup Jul 29 15:17:38 i'm with you on that. Jul 29 15:17:53 its just that i bought a neo1973 with the idea that by the time the freerunner was released, these stupid issues would be solved. Jul 29 15:18:03 but here we are, the freerunner is out, and its like its 2007 all over again. Jul 29 15:18:17 "these stupid issues"? Jul 29 15:18:37 glamo, sd, gps problems. Jul 29 15:18:40 no keyboard policy Jul 29 15:18:47 features being reverted Jul 29 15:18:54 * Rigolo knew he was buying something that would not reallt work 100% ... not even 60% .... but i can make an receive calls .. send text .. and have it sit here on my desk ... and ssh into it ... that is at least 100% more then my nokia :-) Jul 29 15:18:55 Glamo is in good shape Jul 29 15:19:00 multiple personality disorder on the distribution side Jul 29 15:19:09 Chox: no landscape is *not* good shape ;) Jul 29 15:19:12 SD and GPS seem to be good too, with kernel fix Jul 29 15:19:15 well, ok. Jul 29 15:19:16 Chox: as of what .. a day ago? Jul 29 15:19:19 the gps problem wasn't even known till after fr release, and iirc, a suitable sw fix was had within 10 days or so Jul 29 15:19:20 SDL don't work. Jul 29 15:19:24 yes, gps/sd works for me, even if i run *from* the sd card Jul 29 15:19:27 hee Tig| ... keyboard modified already :-) Jul 29 15:19:31 SD and GPS are **not** fixed. Jul 29 15:19:31 Chox: do you know of FSO uses glamo? because ASU doesn't Jul 29 15:19:35 sdl does work Jul 29 15:19:36 ah, I won't bother, you're just enumerating things to bitch about. Jul 29 15:19:52 SDL doesn't work on om207.2 Jul 29 15:19:53 torpor: they are with a recent kernel Jul 29 15:19:56 Zorkman: _everything_ graphic uses glamo. it's the gfx chip :p Jul 29 15:20:12 Rigolo: which one? have been busy today so not had chance to play Jul 29 15:20:13 torpor: I loaded the july 22th 2007.02 image and kernel ... took my sd card out .. and get a gps fix in 33 secs Jul 29 15:20:14 on my asu the process xglamo doesn't run though... Jul 29 15:20:17 i've got the latest kernel from mwester which includes andy's latest fixes Jul 29 15:20:18 .. Jul 29 15:20:20 torpor: doesn't matter, with a shares 7m bus for glamo/sd, you can't do much in the way of 3d anyways Jul 29 15:20:30 torpor: and with the SD card in it ... it took 130 secs ... but still worked Jul 29 15:20:42 AntonTakk: yeah, and .. didn't someone *think* about this when they designed it? Jul 29 15:21:10 rigolo: i get a fix too, and i have the kernel fixes in.. after about 2 minutes. but if i do anything with the SD card in the meantime - multitask, etc. - GPS goes wayyyy off the map Jul 29 15:21:17 ah, this is the same Jay Vaughan mooing on the mailing list. Jul 29 15:21:18 torpor: they tested, but with an artificial GPS signal, seems like it wasn't very good calibrated, the tests included GPS while SD inserted Jul 29 15:21:23 co Jul 29 15:21:23 torpor: the problem never showed when the *TESTED* it with aparently fairly industry standard proceedures Jul 29 15:21:32 moo Jul 29 15:21:37 torpor: well the glamo package got them back the sd interface they lost when they put wifi in Jul 29 15:21:48 AntonTakk: no, it wasn't industry standard, i have mail from OM themselves confirming this. Jul 29 15:21:58 anyway enough bitching from me. Jul 29 15:22:00 chox: moo Jul 29 15:22:04 torpor: well .. .get us a phone with the same specs as the iphone with free docs ... are you happy then? Jul 29 15:22:07 neigh. Jul 29 15:22:23 torpor: ok, fine, so it wasn't and i mis-understood that, lets see you build a nicer phone in the same ammount of time Jul 29 15:22:28 Rigolo: i'll be happy when things settle down. Jul 29 15:22:49 Chox: mooing on the mailing list? Jul 29 15:22:58 AntonTakk: i work for THALES, i make systems for safety-critical platforms, i very well may take you up on that .. Jul 29 15:23:07 torpor: and then the GTA03 .. or the GTA04 is around the corner .. and you do not want this GTa02 anymore .. and you will see different issues with those phones Jul 29 15:23:16 torpor: they were quite settled before you spoke, so i think we have a solution ;) Jul 29 15:23:19 i just hope that the gta03 is settled. Jul 29 15:23:24 AntonTakk: i don't think so Jul 29 15:23:33 it won't be. it'll be new hardware with new issues. Jul 29 15:23:53 indeed and the glamo-fix in GTA03 is to remove it :) Jul 29 15:24:06 the only bitch i have is the ASR/FSO/OM2007.2/QTOPIA split. for me, this was the stupidest decision i've ever seen, and i've seen a few. Jul 29 15:24:18 torpor: look, if you don't like the phone go away and let those of us who do deal with any problems that arise Jul 29 15:24:23 Zorkman: do you have a replacement part available already then? same or lower price? Jul 29 15:24:43 AntonTakk: i will not go away, and i do have a right to voice my opinion. i also have a right to continue my apps development. Jul 29 15:24:54 Rigolo: no, but I read on the maiilinglist that they were thinking about removing the gmalo for GTA03 Jul 29 15:25:02 torpor: didn't say you don't Jul 29 15:25:04 (I could be mistaken) Jul 29 15:25:24 Zorkman: and replace it with what? (not that I am a embedded hardware specialist) Jul 29 15:25:29 so has anyone gotten SDL working on OM2007.2? Jul 29 15:25:31 Zorkman: i understood that glamo removal was a certainty Jul 29 15:25:40 torpor: it works perfectly under debian Jul 29 15:25:40 i hope OMAP is a consideration for GTA03. Jul 29 15:25:45 omap? Jul 29 15:25:56 ecraven: see?!! thats the @#$*&(@#&$ problem!! Jul 29 15:26:01 torpor: GTA03 wont change hardware much Jul 29 15:26:03 AntonTakk: well, I thought that also, but because Rigolo didn't know about it I was beginning to doubt :) sometimes I misread Jul 29 15:26:03 "that"? Jul 29 15:26:10 oh, sdl and debian Jul 29 15:26:15 yeah, that: it 'works under debian'. Jul 29 15:26:16 so fix it!!!!11one!! Jul 29 15:26:18 well, let's just switch to debian ;) things work there Jul 29 15:26:21 the phones don't ship with debian, dude! Jul 29 15:26:33 ah, but they could ;) Jul 29 15:26:33 less mooing. more dooing. Jul 29 15:26:39 Chox: nod Jul 29 15:27:15 just to be sure: torpor are you indeed Jay Vaughan? Jul 29 15:27:22 Zorkman: yes Jul 29 15:27:27 k Jul 29 15:27:32 who are you Zorkman ? Jul 29 15:27:37 Debian does have by default Xglamo however. That might be the interaction. Jul 29 15:27:39 "yorick" Jul 29 15:27:40 ecraven: i already have to buy laptops with the intention of reinstalling right off the bat, don't bring that mess to the phones Jul 29 15:27:43 s/does/doesn't/ Jul 29 15:27:43 Chox meant: Debian doesn't have by default Xglamo however. That might be the interaction. Jul 29 15:27:55 but don't expect something usefull comming from me :) I'm new to everything Jul 29 15:28:17 Chox: it can't be a problem to provide a package, even the binaries from 2007.2 run fine Jul 29 15:28:32 Zorkman: did that comment change to the edc cod get you your qwerty button? Jul 29 15:28:40 yes, but I'm talking about the SDL problem. Jul 29 15:28:44 i'm not saying it's the fix for all problems, but debian seems to have many more packages than angstrom Jul 29 15:28:44 well i've got a few things i should delvier now that i've pissed off all thefanboix. such as developer tutorials, a compiler-onboard howto, a game or two, and some nice applets. plus some contributions to settingsgui, when the new version is released. Jul 29 15:28:45 tracking it might be tricky. Jul 29 15:29:08 AntonTakk: I already had the qwerty button with the modified illume.edj file from the mailinglists, but now whe nI click it it just opens the dropdown window Jul 29 15:29:16 ecraven: yes, 20000 or so ;-) Jul 29 15:29:29 Zorkman: oh, yeah, that's what it was :) Jul 29 15:29:50 Zorkman: i think i'm gonna customize my illume theme Jul 29 15:30:06 later, more mooing to do. .. Jul 29 15:30:24 stupid question: does debian use more system resources (power) than angstrom? Jul 29 15:30:41 get rid of the green, the fso's purplish blue looked nice Jul 29 15:30:46 maybe. Jul 29 15:31:01 binaries are bigger, more use of RAM, more access of flash. Jul 29 15:31:05 Zorkman yes Jul 29 15:31:25 Zorkman - but it rocks compared to angstrom Jul 29 15:31:36 well, if bigger binaries get me a working system, i'm in ;) Jul 29 15:31:58 and Debian gets a whole heck of a lot more QA than Angstrom. Jul 29 15:32:05 although the armel stuff less so. Jul 29 15:32:16 QA? question and answer? Jul 29 15:32:27 Chox: debian gets lots of qa? not ime :) Jul 29 15:32:33 quality assurance Jul 29 15:32:46 IMCE, it does. Jul 29 15:33:01 anyway, the operative word was "more" Jul 29 15:33:13 imce? Jul 29 15:33:18 ever tried the "stable" sparc32? it's not so stable Jul 29 15:33:21 in my considerable experience Jul 29 15:33:32 AntonTakk: unhuh. Neither here nor here for armel. Jul 29 15:33:57 Chox: but it is here and here for debian Jul 29 15:34:07 no idea what you're on about. Jul 29 15:35:53 Chox: just that ime debian is only well tested on x86 Jul 29 15:36:13 Then I must assume that your e doesn't include armel. Jul 29 15:36:19 or indeed, amd64 Jul 29 15:36:25 my e? Jul 29 15:36:33 oh Jul 29 15:36:51 no, i left debian years ago and am quite happy Jul 29 15:37:02 i've been playing with debian for a few days, not a single crash on the neo Jul 29 15:37:05 sigh. so your experience isn't even _current_ Jul 29 15:37:27 Chox: my experience was bad enough that i never want to bother updating it Jul 29 15:38:09 So your Debian Sparc experience is enough for you to making sweeping statements about all Debian? That's a bit naive. Jul 29 15:38:17 no Jul 29 15:38:25 esp. since Debian on FR clearly works quite well. Jul 29 15:38:28 debian sparc and debian x86 Jul 29 15:38:44 whatever. you're changing the goal posts. Jul 29 15:38:44 Chox Jul 29 15:38:56 d. Jul 29 15:39:18 just highlighting sparc32 cause it actually crashed like every 5 minutes under debian Jul 29 15:39:31 did you try it with another distro? Jul 29 15:39:33 * Chox spots hyperbole. Jul 29 15:39:35 yes Jul 29 15:39:41 rh6.2 Jul 29 15:39:48 rock solid, but slow Jul 29 15:40:07 also works fine with solaris 9 Jul 29 15:40:27 sparc64 is rock solid on my Ultra5 Jul 29 15:40:39 cos FR uses sparc Jul 29 15:40:53 Chox: not what i'm saying Jul 29 15:40:59 Dave: what are your breakage plans for this week? Jul 29 15:41:30 saying that non-x86 aparently doesn't get anywhere near the testing in debian that x86 does Jul 29 15:41:39 Dave: i'll start on that event daemon soon, then i'll write a demo that does the xrandr-on-accelerator-change ;) Jul 29 15:42:28 also that there is no reason to ship debian by default when openembedded is already designed specifically for such devices Jul 29 15:42:47 a Jul 29 15:45:35 is it much work to port a debian application to angstrom? Jul 29 15:45:53 (generally speaking) Jul 29 15:46:50 generally applications shouldn't need any porting Jul 29 15:46:56 if they are written well Jul 29 15:47:16 :P Jul 29 15:47:25 ecraven, oooh hot :D Jul 29 15:47:29 I can't wait till that gets done Jul 29 15:47:30 Zorkman: if porting was involved, it wouldn't be debian to angstron it would be $ARCH to arm Jul 29 15:47:36 but it seems like it may be a difficult accomplishment Jul 29 15:47:56 the kernel seems to be finicky with the input events Jul 29 15:48:01 Zorkman: and most don't, but still there are enough exceptions Jul 29 15:48:04 another question: my rootfs has 17% free space. Is it recommended to have more free space? Jul 29 15:48:26 Zorkman: wow Jul 29 15:49:22 AntonTakk: by rootfs i don't mean rootfs image that i flashed; indiana jones 4 and monkey ilsand 2 are included in those 83% Jul 29 15:49:41 ah Jul 29 15:49:57 i was gonna say ;) Jul 29 15:50:04 well 17% might be 100 MB or it may be 50 GB :p Jul 29 15:50:14 50 GB will sure be enough :p Jul 29 15:50:25 .... Jul 29 15:50:29 it's the internal memory :) Jul 29 15:50:36 how could 17% free on the fr be 50G? Jul 29 15:50:41 so 41MB remaining Jul 29 15:51:08 AntonTakk: oh, on the fr.. Jul 29 15:51:08 Zorkman: I wouldn't wory about it to much, but don't let it get to much fuller Jul 29 15:51:10 AntonTakk, null-padded files with compression? Jul 29 15:51:21 mjr: those a fun Jul 29 15:52:14 * AntonTakk admits to e-mailing one once, but the kid really deserved it :) Jul 29 15:57:06 hi guys Jul 29 15:57:34 quick, RH, hide. Jul 29 15:57:53 RH? Jul 29 15:58:15 :( Jul 29 15:58:57 seriously, i'm surprised how many people in here pick on me for working there Jul 29 15:59:10 you were the one that mentioned it. Jul 29 15:59:17 talk about setting yourself up ;-p Jul 29 15:59:33 right, but i guess as a linux user, it's awesome to work for a linux company Jul 29 15:59:47 eh, whatever Jul 29 15:59:51 i'm not worried Jul 29 15:59:55 Well, I though so too, and almost went to Linspire, but got the better of myself. Jul 29 16:00:05 aha, Read Hat Jul 29 16:00:08 Linspire != Red Hat Jul 29 16:00:08 *redµ Jul 29 16:00:11 tkep: for the record, i think it's fantastic you work at rh and have an interest in the fr Jul 29 16:00:17 Linspire == Linux company, however. Jul 29 16:00:42 but even you could argue that point. they signed the MS deal thing with Novell Jul 29 16:00:43 off to lunch! Jul 29 16:00:50 who, red hat? Jul 29 16:00:53 no way Jul 29 16:00:59 keep up Jul 29 16:01:00 Chox: what are you smoking? Jul 29 16:01:12 you guys are slow. Jul 29 16:01:35 Chox: have proof? Jul 29 16:01:48 Perhaps you could read what I did say, rather than what you thought I said. Jul 29 16:02:32 perhaps you could speak more clearly, does they = linspire or rh? Jul 29 16:03:04 perhaps I could :o But "they" as a follow on from previous statement, should clearly be Linspire. Jul 29 16:04:17 except there seems to be a sentance fragment inbetween the two statements, which confuses things Jul 29 16:04:46 The "sentence fragment" is most pertinent Jul 29 16:04:56 which indeed, was the statement I was on about. Jul 29 16:05:01 anyway. Jul 29 16:05:24 http://www.armedslack.org/ <- this guy works at "The Hat" as he calls it. Jul 29 16:05:36 and your point? Jul 29 16:05:46 No point, just conversation. Jul 29 16:06:13 ok Jul 29 16:06:36 because i know nothing: what do people have against red hat? Jul 29 16:06:36 slack isn't bad, not my p[articular cup of tea, but not bad Jul 29 16:06:42 is it because they ask money? Jul 29 16:06:47 RPM. Jul 29 16:06:51 pfft Jul 29 16:06:54 rpm is fine Jul 29 16:07:54 ah I see...my fedora9 can also use rpm... why is that bad? Jul 29 16:07:56 Zorkman: some people see them as "The MS of Linux" which imho is retarded, they only charge for support Jul 29 16:08:08 Zorkman: not can, DOES Jul 29 16:08:19 Rigolo: flashing the kernel with the daily 7/27 build fixed the kernel update problem Jul 29 16:08:34 mike--2: ooch. Jul 29 16:08:50 thanks for the info AntonTakk, in due time I will form an opinion of my own, right know I'm neutral because I don't know enough Jul 29 16:09:22 someone remind me how to roll a custom kernel in Fedora. oh, wait.. _you can't_ - unless something's drastically changed from FC6 Jul 29 16:09:23 Zorkman: every time you install from a repo or update fedora, it used rpm reavily Jul 29 16:09:52 Chox: it's easy, just install the proper source backages, make config changes and rpmbuild -bb kernel.spec Jul 29 16:10:02 always has been that easy Jul 29 16:10:16 AntonTakk: nope, but good job missing the point ;-) Jul 29 16:10:27 I want to make a kernel from kernel.org sources Jul 29 16:10:37 the point was you can't make a custom kernel, how did i miss it? Jul 29 16:10:48 Chox: fine, download and compile them Jul 29 16:10:56 nothing stopping you Jul 29 16:10:58 and how do I make a package from that? Jul 29 16:11:17 create a proper spec file Jul 29 16:11:24 and tell rpmbuild to use it Jul 29 16:11:52 why do I have to make a spec file (which incidentally are horrible to make) for something that should be standard? Jul 29 16:12:15 explain? Jul 29 16:12:27 Chox: how does Debian (or whatever distro you use) do it? Jul 29 16:12:40 you don't /NEED/ to make a spec to use a custom built kernel Jul 29 16:12:40 in Debian, I use make-kpkg and it automagically builds packages for the kernel, headers and modules. Jul 29 16:12:55 AntonTakk: true, but I want to make packages, for whatever reason. Jul 29 16:12:58 are *.ipk packages then not like rpm packages? Jul 29 16:13:11 ipkg was based on dpkg Jul 29 16:13:11 ipk is a great deal more like Debian packages. Jul 29 16:13:19 Zorkman: similar purpose, diferent implementation Jul 29 16:13:23 about 95% the same Jul 29 16:13:39 AntonTakk: ok.. i'm about to flash my fr with asu now.. 0722 is still the latest stable rootfs for ASU? Jul 29 16:13:45 Chox: so you're complaining that someone wrote a custom script to package the kernel for Debian, but on RPM-based systems there's not cure-all script to go from source to package? Jul 29 16:13:53 Bill_: 22 has no kb, use 21 Jul 29 16:13:58 so rpm gives youi less freedom, but idiots like me can work with it withouth any previous knowlegde Jul 29 16:14:00 ok Jul 29 16:14:04 sitwon: "custom" no, this an integral tool from Debian. Jul 29 16:14:16 "cure all"? no. Jul 29 16:14:18 Zorkman: no, it does not give less freedom Jul 29 16:14:20 any other differences betwees 21 and 22? Jul 29 16:14:35 Bill_: afaict, no Jul 29 16:14:46 This is for making kernel packages. There's no such tool in Fedora. unless something change since I used it. Jul 29 16:14:50 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07zhone * r69e029bd85a1 10/src/zhone: Use ReadyStatus signal to trigger phonebook and messagebook retrival Jul 29 16:15:19 Chox: now, do the archives come from kernel.ord with a debian directory? Jul 29 16:15:21 Chox: my point is that you have a script that's sole purpose is the compile and package the kernel. The RPM way of doing it is apparently to write a spec and package is the same way you would package anything else without a kernel-specific helper script Jul 29 16:15:43 sitwon: why would I write a spec file, when it would be the _same_ every time for everyone? Jul 29 16:15:51 AntonTakk: nope. Jul 29 16:16:01 sitwon: talk about reinventing the whell Jul 29 16:16:03 wheel Jul 29 16:16:08 Chox: Why can't you use the spec file from Fedora kernel? Jul 29 16:16:32 because it's hopelessly unsuitable for rolling your own. P.S. I've actually done all these things. Jul 29 16:16:44 Chox: so have i, it's not hard Jul 29 16:16:57 it is hard. Jul 29 16:17:04 if you want a generic kernel, you mostly need to gut the spec a bit Jul 29 16:17:11 * sitwon uses Slackware and doesn't bother with packaging the kernel Jul 29 16:17:17 why am I editing specs at all? Jul 29 16:17:47 anyway. this just highlights the backwards thinking that is behind so much of my attitude towards Fedora/RH. Jul 29 16:17:51 Chox: cause there is no helper script to do it for you Jul 29 16:18:18 not having a distro-specific helper script is backwards-thinking? Jul 29 16:18:47 the distro is not the point. The point is making a kernel package in whatever is the native packaging format. Jul 29 16:18:52 AntonTakk: apparently, not having a distro-supplied helper script is backward thinking Jul 29 16:19:11 sitwon: aparently Jul 29 16:19:45 Slackware doesn't have a helper script either. The Slackware philosophy is that the kernel's Makefile /is/ the helper-script. Jul 29 16:19:46 sitwon: correct, it's symptomatic of that. Jul 29 16:20:02 Chox: so what? in fedora/rh it's not quite as automated as in debian, does that mean gentoo is not only moving backwards but sideways as well? Jul 29 16:20:09 Slackware is a different philiosphy. But I'm sure you could make a SW kernel package easily. Jul 29 16:20:24 AntonTakk: no, it's not automated at _all_ ;-) Jul 29 16:20:35 Chox: I could easily make a kernel package for fedora/rh Jul 29 16:20:53 As for Gentoo, I can't validly have any opinion other than "ricers". haven't used it. Jul 29 16:20:59 Chox: yeah, rpmbuild is just a shell script that calls meke.....pfft Jul 29 16:21:08 Chox: you could, the SlackBuilds are written in a fairly generic fashion. However, I've never bothered beause I compile the kernel specifically for the system it's being used on. Jul 29 16:21:12 rpmbuild is an insane mess. Jul 29 16:21:33 Chox: have any valid reason for that opinion? Jul 29 16:21:46 yes, have to poke at its internals :o Jul 29 16:21:49 had Jul 29 16:21:53 hard Jul 29 16:21:59 what? Jul 29 16:22:14 and it you wanted to remostrate that dpkg- is complex, you'd be correct too. Jul 29 16:22:16 when do you have to poke at rpmbuild's internals? Jul 29 16:22:32 when it breaks, or the exceptionally poor documentation doesn't tell you how to do stuff. Jul 29 16:22:49 which leads to my next gripe about Fedora. many of the tools _have no documentation_ Jul 29 16:22:56 poor documentation? there have been entire books written on rpm Jul 29 16:23:13 yes, some of them are online. And guess what - they don't cover everything. Jul 29 16:23:27 like basic stuff like what the various variables do. Jul 29 16:23:38 Chox: an old pdf online won't cover the newest stuff, read the man page Jul 29 16:23:46 hah! Jul 29 16:23:53 oh, you make me cry. Jul 29 16:25:06 unfortunately, this was nearly 2 years ago. if you press me for details, I won't be able to remember :-| Jul 29 16:25:14 Chox: man page tells you how to make rpm expand the variables for you Jul 29 16:25:26 man page tells you _some_ of the varibles. Jul 29 16:25:48 Chox: it also tells you how to make rpm tell you a variable's value Jul 29 16:26:28 and how to get the man page to tell me about stuff I know is there, but isn't documented? ;-) Jul 29 16:26:53 doesn't look like this discussion is going anywhere... Jul 29 16:26:54 such as? Jul 29 16:27:01 see above. Jul 29 16:27:03 * Yashy only sees one side of AntonTakk being trolled by the channel troll Jul 29 16:27:12 heh Jul 29 16:27:23 yashy is crying cos I pointed out how wrong his wiki was. Jul 29 16:27:36 Yashy: i get anoyed by debian fanatics going off about rpm Jul 29 16:28:14 AntonTakk: The issue is your partner in the debate has no desire to learn, hence I have him on ignore :) Jul 29 16:28:14 AntonTakk: yes, as I said, my memory will fail me at this point, and I'll have to give up. But IMCE, this was typical - I did stuff with the Fedora automated installer, and lots of stuff there was also not documented. Jul 29 16:28:58 and FWIW, I'm happy to tell you about problems in Debian too, if you like. Jul 29 16:29:30 Chox: just promise not to try to compare apt to rpm Jul 29 16:29:51 'apt-get install rpm' works fine :o Jul 29 16:30:02 or 'yum install apt Jul 29 16:30:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r445a01673bfd 10/framework/subsystems/ (4 files in 4 dirs): odeviced: accelerometer: bring back MockAccelerometer and use logging Jul 29 16:30:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r00dc466c9530 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/unsolicited.py: (log message trimmed) Jul 29 16:30:29 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: fix sending global SIM readyness status. Jul 29 16:30:29 freesmartphone.org: The gory details: Jul 29 16:30:31 freesmartphone.org: PHB is phonebook, SMS is messagebook. RDY is supposed to be sent, after Jul 29 16:30:33 freesmartphone.org: PHB and SMS both being 1, however it's not sent on all devices. Jul 29 16:30:35 freesmartphone.org: EONS is completely undocumented. Jul 29 16:30:37 freesmartphone.org: Due to RDY being unreliable, we wait for PHB and SMS sending availability Jul 29 16:34:09 http://hackepedia.org/?title=Internet:Fighting Jul 29 16:34:14 "fix sending global SIM readyness status." i wonder if that means i'll be able to register with the network in the next milestone Jul 29 16:34:58 Yashy: haha, yes, old but good :) Jul 29 16:35:11 Do you have a unique SIM? I can register with my network (in Canada) Jul 29 16:35:47 Mind you I had to upgrade my SIM as another member of this channel informed me. Once I did so I was able to connect to the ROGERS network. Jul 29 16:36:03 Yashy: in the latest daily i tried it showed no gsm signal and i couldn't make or receive calls, works fine with 2007.2, asu, and qtopia thou Jul 29 16:36:36 well, 2007.2 is picky and phone-kit likes to become a zombie Jul 29 16:36:54 hrm I didn't use my phone yesterday, I'm doing update/upgrade now, I'll let you know if I connect when it's done :) Jul 29 16:37:03 but it's clearly not a firmware compatability issue if it works in 3 of 4 implementations :) Jul 29 16:37:29 s/implementations/software stacks/ Jul 29 16:37:30 AntonTakk meant: but it's clearly not a firmware compatability issue if it works in 3 of 4 software stacks :) Jul 29 16:38:33 i'd switch to fso in a heart beat if I could use it reliably as a phone/contact list Jul 29 16:39:59 also need to see about a silicone backed screen protector Jul 29 16:40:23 these cheapos I got a best buy are ok, kinda Jul 29 16:42:32 i'm waiting on my InvisibleShield, got shipping confirmation yesterday :) Jul 29 16:47:47 leinir: i'd be interested to know the install proceedure and details on that Jul 29 16:48:10 It comes with quite good instructions (and there's videos on the website) :) Jul 29 16:48:24 freerunner videos on the website now? Jul 29 16:52:33 Well, just look at one of the videos of how to install it on anything with a recessed screen :) Jul 29 16:52:51 It's really easy to remove the case. Jul 29 16:56:21 SpeedEvil: Do you actually remove the case to install the invisibleshield screen-only thing? Jul 29 16:56:30 leinir: I don't know. Jul 29 16:56:37 i was under the impression that it was precision-cut to fit exactly inside the hole :) Jul 29 16:56:44 leinir: it's very easy to install a larger than the screen protector under the case. Jul 29 16:56:46 Right :) Jul 29 16:56:55 *nods* Yeah :) Jul 29 16:56:57 SpeedEvil: yeah, i couldn't find my guitar pick thou, precision screw driver left indentations in the plastic :-\ Jul 29 16:56:57 Which gives absolutely complete protection, and no edges visible. Jul 29 16:57:10 You don't use a precision screwdriver. Jul 29 16:57:22 hmh.. have to order mine i guess Jul 29 16:57:24 First you remove the back and screws (and battery of course). Jul 29 16:57:33 anyone of you already using it? Jul 29 16:57:45 the is protector apparently is installed without opening, and is very slightly smaller than screen Jul 29 16:57:48 but I don't have one (yet) Jul 29 16:57:55 SpeedEvil: yeah, then you need something to pry the front case clips apart with Jul 29 16:57:57 is = invisibleshield Jul 29 16:57:58 Then you twist the case slightly, and run your fingernail along the case edge till it pops in. Jul 29 16:58:06 hrm Jul 29 16:58:15 Then simply run the edge round, and it pops all the latches out easily. Jul 29 16:58:17 i hadn't heard of twisting it slightly Jul 29 16:58:38 It puts the latches under stress, and makes the case want to pop out Jul 29 16:58:42 twisting electronics isn't usually a good idea Jul 29 16:58:45 * Rigolo can see screens breaking now .... ooo twisted to hard :-) Jul 29 16:58:59 _slightly_ Jul 29 16:59:08 not enough to actually move the case appreciably Jul 29 16:59:23 well .. slightly can mean anything ... :-) Jul 29 16:59:24 Say 1Kg force. Jul 29 16:59:27 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r2521c210a274 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Disable NMEA sentences when starting and enable them again on shutdown Jul 29 16:59:47 10N force Jul 29 16:59:54 yeah.. "twisted it a bit with two wrenches and now my FR's screen is all distorted.. is it covered by warranty?" Jul 29 17:00:03 heh Jul 29 17:00:21 SpeedEvil: okee ... so I need to clamp it in to my work bench, and then put a 1kg wait on one end? :-) Jul 29 17:00:39 wait .. = weight ... Jul 29 17:00:54 Apply 10n at the four case corners, so that the forces cause a twisting moment. Jul 29 17:01:10 normal to the fascia of the phone. Jul 29 17:01:32 SpeedEvil: well .. than you need to apply it only to 3 or 2 corners ... not 4 .. then it is equel and you push it downwards :-) Jul 29 17:02:56 i'm not to worried, i'll probably buy a gta03 when it comes out Jul 29 17:03:12 You cannot apply a torque to the case unrestrained with only 2 forces. Jul 29 17:03:12 2009 I heard :-) Jul 29 17:03:31 then some family member or other wil want my old phone Jul 29 17:03:44 Rigolo: 2009 is just around the corner ;) Jul 29 17:03:44 (..."cannot apply a tongue") Jul 29 17:03:46 who said anything about unrestrained .... it was in my workbench :-) Jul 29 17:03:49 "yeah, okay" Jul 29 17:03:56 "just watch me" Jul 29 17:04:03 I've just setup a timeserver for my neo, using this guide: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Setting_Date_and_Time Jul 29 17:04:12 But how do I choose which timezone to take from.. Jul 29 17:04:45 Currently, it is 2 hours behind my time (central european time) Jul 29 17:05:04 Bubbi: getting started explains how to set tz, or at least links to it, thou i'd recommend a full reboot after setting it, not just restarting x Jul 29 17:05:09 Bubbi: ntp server your mean? Jul 29 17:05:21 Rigolo: yes :) Jul 29 17:05:45 bumbl: thanks for the pointer (to git, a while ago) - i think i understand how it works now (i didn't understand the OE is just a whole load of metadata, and gets the real source from elsewhere) Jul 29 17:05:55 np. KMFDM - Unrestrained use of excessive force Jul 29 17:05:59 Bubbi: pick anyone you want ... they "transmit" time in UTC .. your TZ settings convert that Jul 29 17:06:02 AntonTakk: ah okay.. :) Jul 29 17:06:28 umm.. ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/CET /etc/localtime Jul 29 17:06:36 so it actually needs an extra package to do that..? Jul 29 17:06:47 tzdata-europe Jul 29 17:06:58 is the package you need.. with european tz files Jul 29 17:07:01 Bubbi: only a few bytes Jul 29 17:07:14 Bubbi: if the /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/CET file doesn't already exist, yes Jul 29 17:08:52 I believe that it already exist.. but there's nothing at /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/CET.. But there is a /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Paris/ Jul 29 17:08:56 which uses the same time Jul 29 17:09:10 Bubbi: well .. then you can link to that one Jul 29 17:09:11 you can link also the correct city Jul 29 17:09:16 no difference Jul 29 17:09:23 if it is there ... :-) Jul 29 17:09:25 I would like to get a 1024x600 touchscreen display in my openmoko. Jul 29 17:09:26 Maybe openmoko could use some the of software part of http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7620873212.html Jul 29 17:09:39 i'm using /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Tallinn here Jul 29 17:10:04 thanks for all of your help :) It's all appreciated Jul 29 17:10:12 davi: the Q1 is also a target for ubuntu mobile Jul 29 17:10:49 what is the largest capacity for a micro SD card i can use in a Freerunner Jul 29 17:11:33 1.21 tb Jul 29 17:11:34 Rigolo, Let me google for "ubuntu mobile". However note I am not a fun of Ubuntu. Jul 29 17:11:35 4Gb I think is the largest microSD you can get Jul 29 17:11:48 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded Jul 29 17:11:55 Rigolo: nmpe Jul 29 17:12:03 Rigolo: 8G is widely available. Jul 29 17:12:03 will an SDHC card work though? Jul 29 17:12:22 so , Neo is not compatible with SDHC ? Jul 29 17:12:23 i think anything over 2GB is SD HC Jul 29 17:12:29 marcinsoo: it is Jul 29 17:13:00 SpeedEvil: hee 8Gb ... and not even that expensive :-0 Jul 29 17:13:13 AntonTakk: any hints now.. i've got ASU runnung Jul 29 17:13:25 Bill_: hints as to? Jul 29 17:13:36 Bill_: be carefull with upgrades :-) Jul 29 17:13:38 yeah, was gunna buy an 8GB and they are not that bad in price, so even if it doesnt work i think i'll be ok Jul 29 17:13:50 ushelpers: 8gb cards work over here Jul 29 17:14:05 Bill_: most of the back end getting started stuff applies, time/date/networking, etc Jul 29 17:14:08 sweet, guess no problem then Jul 29 17:14:24 does it matter in speed if you get a 4x or a 6x class card? or is the sd resder in the FR already a limiting factor? Jul 29 17:14:45 resder = reader Jul 29 17:14:48 Bill_: but i also like to install some of the other qtopia apps, opkg list | grep qtopia-phone-x11- will show them Jul 29 17:15:07 Rigolo: I cannot comment on the FR - the neo manages 3 megabytes/second on a card which does 12M/s on my PC Jul 29 17:15:11 okay, thanks.. will look into all of it Jul 29 17:15:17 Rigolo: for what i've read, the card reader on the neo is fast enough for both a 4x and 6x Jul 29 17:15:20 Rigolo, I would like OpenMoko be my mobile PC Jul 29 17:15:29 Bill_: if you want appls like tangogps you'll need to install the gtk engine, theme, and setup a proper .gtkrc-2.0 Jul 29 17:15:52 okay i think i saw some references to it in wiki Jul 29 17:15:54 so i'll find it Jul 29 17:15:59 hmm, isnt it kinda bad that the sdcard is not hot-swappable? Jul 29 17:16:00 Rigolo, I do not like the Canonical company, I prefer a community based one as Openmoko Jul 29 17:16:23 Canonical is just a Debian parasite Jul 29 17:16:23 davi: well ... for ubuntu then ... nothing is stopping you from doing that :-) Jul 29 17:16:46 Rigolo: do the latest dev upgrades work again? Jul 29 17:17:09 ronny: no idea ... I stay way from them for the moment :-) Jul 29 17:17:30 any idea who might know? Jul 29 17:17:39 Bill_: for the .gtkrc-2.0, go to the Getting_Started_FAQ page, but i'd recommend making those changed to a file stored in /home/root (don't symlink the gtkrc from the moko theme: include "..." it, then add the font line below the include statement, that way, if you ever update the moko gtk theme, you don't lose your font Jul 29 17:18:00 ok.. thanks for the hint Jul 29 17:18:21 off to config now :) Jul 29 17:18:26 have fun :) Jul 29 17:18:39 oh i will Jul 29 17:18:45 * Rigolo is going to cook dinner .... 4 other people are waiting for it ... Jul 29 17:19:03 have my bottle of cptn Morgan to accompany me :) Jul 29 17:19:06 Rigolo: bah! forget them! you have a fr to play with ;) Jul 29 17:19:07 and enough coke Jul 29 17:19:20 so cheers all you mokoholics :) Jul 29 17:19:41 AntonTakk: well ... my girlfriend is one of those 4 ... Jul 29 17:21:12 btw.. the opkg feeds.. those included are OK? or should i include something else? scaredycat doesn't do ASU yet but he does keep gtk part up to date Jul 29 17:22:35 moo Jul 29 17:23:45 oh, where was I? Oh yes, bashing Fedora, and offering to bash Debian :o Jul 29 17:26:01 Chox: lol.. yeah.. distrowars ftw Jul 29 17:26:53 I just want to make it clear that I'll defend accuracy, but I'm not anybody's fanboi :o Jul 29 17:27:23 Chox, bashing Linux distros is so passe. everyone bashes Linux. How about you bash OpenBSD for us. that'll be fun and informative Jul 29 17:27:45 no, OpenBSD gave me free beer at one Linux show. Jul 29 17:28:08 Ok... what about FreeBSD, those guys must be a bunch of posers, rite? Jul 29 17:28:26 It's possible. I don't know enough to rant. Jul 29 17:28:29 netbsd? Jul 29 17:28:34 OpenSolaris? Jul 29 17:28:34 opensolaris? Jul 29 17:28:38 lol Jul 29 17:28:48 heh, yes. NetBSD is ok. Well, used to be - there was a time it ran on more stuff than Linux Jul 29 17:28:51 altho i kinda like solaris in servers Jul 29 17:29:00 I haven't used it in year Jul 29 17:29:00 What with all the bashing, why don't we all revert back to flipping bits by hands, 'cause all os's are bullshit. Jul 29 17:29:13 I kinda hate Solaris on this Blade 1000 under my desk... Jul 29 17:29:30 * Chox hasn't used Solaris, but used in SunOS back in the day. That and NetBSD were my first exposure to unix. Jul 29 17:30:00 Rakshasa: amen! Jul 29 17:31:14 Remeber the good old days when we had dip switches and vacuum tubes and intead of monitors we read binary lit up on ping-pong balls? Jul 29 17:31:21 i have long prophesied the return of vacuum tubes Jul 29 17:31:27 please wiggle these dip switches to make a phone call. Jul 29 17:31:42 linters: but they never went away in amplifiers. Jul 29 17:31:57 true Jul 29 17:32:11 how about punch cards Jul 29 17:32:13 I read they made a transistor out of paper.... Jul 29 17:32:28 and real floppy disks that are actually floppy Jul 29 17:32:32 yeah. and when bugs were real bugs in the electric circutry :) Jul 29 17:33:02 ahh, when men were men and bugs were little critters Jul 29 17:33:21 hmmm, i think i prefer today though... now we have much better access to porn Jul 29 17:33:24 punch cards?!? that's too error-prone. we need to punch everything in by hand directly into the machine Jul 29 17:33:34 damn, i just caught the fedora/RHEL bashing Jul 29 17:33:38 And instead of valgrind you used a mallet to hunt bugs... Jul 29 17:33:47 sitwon: hanging chads? Jul 29 17:33:52 sigh. Jul 29 17:33:53 seriously, what a great "community" we are in the linux world Jul 29 17:34:27 ieatlint: I didn't hang Chad, but I would have for all the trouble he caused us in 2000 Jul 29 17:34:28 i use debian, fedora, rhel, ubuntu and om2007.2 now. they all have their pluses and minuses Jul 29 17:34:50 tkep: mostly minuses Jul 29 17:34:54 which? Jul 29 17:34:58 I don't; I don't need to keep track of moose in all of them - brain overload :-( Jul 29 17:35:00 Nah, We're just a few bunches of patriotic fanatics swearing allegiance to the distribution of choice. Jul 29 17:35:04 tkep: that statement suddenly gives me the urge to compile 2007.2 on x86 and try to run it on a computer Jul 29 17:35:07 tkep: all of them, jump on our bandwaggon Jul 29 17:35:10 Rakshasa: swearing _at_ :p Jul 29 17:35:40 :) Jul 29 17:35:53 right now, on my desk at red hat, i am running 4 different linuxes Jul 29 17:36:02 more if you include the different versions of rhel Jul 29 17:36:09 somehow, I find it hard to thing that that's productive Jul 29 17:36:13 think Jul 29 17:36:38 and even internally at red hat, i don't get half the shit you guys give me for running rhel/fedora for running ubuntu in plain sight Jul 29 17:36:46 Chox, i work support Jul 29 17:36:50 i need them all :) Jul 29 17:36:50 i stick to 1 distro on all my computers, only venturing from it on embedded devices Jul 29 17:36:50 :o Jul 29 17:37:02 * Chox highfives linty Jul 29 17:37:09 sadly, the computer next to me is Vista Jul 29 17:37:25 someone calls up "Hi, i can't get openldap to run on my rhel 4 box with client connections from debian....haaaalp!" Jul 29 17:37:39 ah, support. Ghetto ;-) Jul 29 17:37:46 oh god... openldap is a nightmare :P Jul 29 17:37:47 so i fire up my debian box, or my rhel 4 virtual...etc Jul 29 17:37:52 yes, yes openldap is Jul 29 17:37:56 Right now on my desk I'm running Solaris on a Sparc, Solaris on x86, OS X on PPC, Ubuntu x86, Ubuntu x86_64, Windows XP, Windows XP-64, Windows Vista x64, and Slackware. (And somewhere in the office we have Windows 2000, Windows 2k3, Windows 98, Gentoo, CentOS, and Fedora) Jul 29 17:37:59 I hate them all Jul 29 17:38:18 good going sitwon Jul 29 17:38:20 hah Jul 29 17:38:37 very egalitarian Jul 29 17:38:53 i run gentoo on 5 computers, and then i've a linux based NAS, a linux based media player and my FR Jul 29 17:38:56 I'm an equal-opportunity discriminator. Jul 29 17:39:04 * tkep rhel 2.1 thru 5.2, fedora 8&9, ubuntu 8.04, debian 4 Jul 29 17:39:06 that's about it Jul 29 17:39:19 on, and om2007.2 since my fr is on my desk :) Jul 29 17:39:31 I've tried to go through the guide to manually use bluetooth, but when i've activated bluetooth from the interface and from terminal run "hcitool scan" it comes with this message: Device is not available: No such device Jul 29 17:39:42 heh, for a little bit I had grub on my laptop boot to Gentoo, WinXP pro, and OSX86 :) Jul 29 17:39:44 Does anybody know why and how I can make it work..? Jul 29 17:39:48 I guess I have om2007.2 on my desk too, then Jul 29 17:39:50 home desktop = Debian, home laptop = Debian, DVR = Debian. router = Debian. Freerunner = Debian. Other home desktop, er, RISC OS. Jul 29 17:40:00 mike--2, im considering that Jul 29 17:40:01 I don't hate om2007.2 as much Jul 29 17:40:02 minux windows Jul 29 17:40:09 minus even Jul 29 17:40:13 heh, the OSX was just to say I could Jul 29 17:40:28 ok, back to work. i got some questions for you weiners in a bit :) Jul 29 17:40:33 and Windows made some things for work easier Jul 29 17:40:34 Bubbi: try "hciconfig hci0" Jul 29 17:40:35 go red hat! Jul 29 17:40:59 Bubbi: if that still says no device, then the kernel modules for the bluetooth device aren't loaded Jul 29 17:41:28 ieatlint: It says the same Jul 29 17:41:29 Hmm.. I don't have Minix3 yet Jul 29 17:41:43 * sitwon prays that some customer doesn't request support for Minix Jul 29 17:41:51 go red hat, indeed! http://www.redhatsociety.com/ Jul 29 17:42:14 hahaha Jul 29 17:42:17 Hmm. Anyone tried lfs on neo yet =P Jul 29 17:42:31 linux from scratch Jul 29 17:42:39 ew Jul 29 17:42:53 Rakshasa: what's the point? Jul 29 17:43:02 ieatlint: Do you know how to activate the kernel modules..? Jul 29 17:43:06 isn't building OpenMoko a type of LFS :p Jul 29 17:43:16 Slackware = LFS - bullshit; Jul 29 17:43:20 can I redirect kernel bootlogs to the USB wire somwhow even if I dont have a debug board ? :) Jul 29 17:43:27 Bubbi: wait, perhaps you just need to turn it on Jul 29 17:43:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Power_it_up Jul 29 17:43:51 sitwon, Should there be a point? Jul 29 17:44:00 Just for the fun of it. Jul 29 17:44:06 balajirrao: in priciple, yes. you'll need to pass correct magic for kernel parameters Jul 29 17:44:07 use the command line, and you should be on 2.6.24 Jul 29 17:44:12 ieatlint: Funny that you should say it.. it tells me that it is online, when i click the little bluetooth icon and choose "bluetooth status" Jul 29 17:44:48 Bubbi: perhaps you need to run the reset command... trusting the gui to do just about anything right now is haphazard Jul 29 17:44:48 Rakshasa: If you take care of your knife, your knife will take care of you. Dull blades cause more injuries than sharp ones. Jul 29 17:45:03 Chox: oh, how ? But wont the cdc_acm interface become cdc_ether once the kernel is loaded ? Or am I missing something ? Jul 29 17:45:12 A little Boy Scout wisdom. Points are good. Sharp points are better. Jul 29 17:45:13 ieatlint: :P yeah, i've noticed.. heh.. how do I do that then..? Jul 29 17:45:24 sitwon: keep making weird proverbs and i'll use my knife to take care of you ;) Jul 29 17:45:43 Bubbi: the wiki tells you, as linked Jul 29 17:46:41 Chox: I'm asking because I intend to do kernel development and debugging on my FR and thiking if a debug board is indispensible ? Jul 29 17:47:00 yeah, i've tried the "echo 1 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on" and "echo 0 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/reset", but it doesn't seem to do anything.. If i write "hciconfig hci0" afterwards, I still get the same message Jul 29 17:47:45 balajirrao: I'd have to poke more at u-boot to give you an exact answer, but I don't think a debug board is essential Jul 29 17:48:20 Bubbi: what image are you using? Jul 29 17:48:22 sitwon, Would that be bsa, or some other boy scouts? Jul 29 17:48:44 2007.02 Jul 29 17:48:45 Rakshasa: BSA Jul 29 17:49:26 Chox: oh, ok. I got into the uboot console through usb. I'll poke around more.. Jul 29 17:49:41 Bubbi: would that be the stock one the phone came with, or one of the nightly builds? Jul 29 17:50:00 sitwon, Thanks for sharing the wisdom of an organization with credibility (Penn&Teller:Bullshit bsa episode was just aired here yesterday) XD Jul 29 17:50:03 ieatlint: It's one of the nightly builds... So it could be that it was broken of course Jul 29 17:50:46 I've flashed u-boot a couple a days ago and did a opkg upgrade, so I think that i'm using the latest software so far (of course i'm not entirely sure..) :) Jul 29 17:50:48 Bubbi: try "modprobe hci_usb" Jul 29 17:51:24 Rakshasa: It's not "officialy" BSA... I actually just made all that up. The BSA is deprecated religious organization. Jul 29 17:51:44 ieatlint: Didn't tell me anything... just ran.. Jul 29 17:52:00 Bubbi: try "hciconfig hci0" again Jul 29 17:53:07 ieatlint: Should it have printed something on the screen..? I've now tried the hciconfig hci0 again, and still with a "Can't get device info: No such device" Jul 29 17:53:46 no, it only prints if error Jul 29 17:54:15 okay.. Jul 29 17:55:14 well.. It's not that important right now.. I'm just trying some things out ATM.. Maybe it would be working again later Jul 29 17:56:39 yeah, something is odd, i've the same Jul 29 17:56:51 dmesg shows the bluetooth adapter properly, but doesn't assign it an interface Jul 29 17:57:27 okay, so it's not just me..? :) Jul 29 17:57:51 no, working now Jul 29 17:58:15 just needed to run the two echo commands to turn it on and reset it Jul 29 17:58:30 ieatlint: dammit.. :) Was hoping it wasn't just me.. :D Well.. i've just rebooted the neo, to try that out.. Jul 29 17:58:46 ieatlint: I did the two echo commands, but still didn't work Jul 29 17:59:05 I'll try it again.. I might have done something wrong.. Jul 29 17:59:15 i would recommend a kernel upgrade then Jul 29 17:59:33 ieatlint: In which way..? opkg upgrade...? Jul 29 17:59:37 ok, i gtg... cya Jul 29 17:59:48 thanks for your help :) Jul 29 17:59:51 opkg upgrade or reflash the kernel uimage Jul 29 18:00:00 thanks.. and get going now.. ;) Jul 29 18:01:52 ieatlint: Well.. after a reboot, it works now.. weird stuff.. :) Jul 29 18:03:05 oh christ how slow ASU is compared to latest 2007.2.. Jul 29 18:03:17 and it's quite uncompareable with qtopia Jul 29 18:03:56 Hah.. I like that the Neo shows up as a "computer" when scanning for Bluetooth devices.. I would have thought that it would be registered as a "phone" as any other phone does.. :D Jul 29 18:03:56 anyone know where wallpaper.png is called from? Jul 29 18:04:16 man im going mad, i need a moko. Jul 29 18:04:38 railer: not me, sorry.. Jul 29 18:04:42 * TAsn will pay for inside info about the reselling time of the moko in the shop. ;0 Jul 29 18:05:10 thanks anyway Jul 29 18:05:11 TAsn: Ow, you haven't got one yet..? :) Jul 29 18:05:22 Bubbi, not funny :( Jul 29 18:05:38 even a friend i conviced to buy got his before me ;( Jul 29 18:05:38 And you still call yourself a nerd! tsk tsk tsk Jul 29 18:06:00 railer, lately i started questioning my identity :0 Jul 29 18:06:06 railer: I've found something for you.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Today/2007.2 Jul 29 18:06:12 haha.. Jul 29 18:06:31 btw.. do i have to generate .desktop files myself for gtk apps into illume=? Jul 29 18:06:34 I too did.. but then I got the neo.. Now I know who I am.. ;) Jul 29 18:06:52 Bubbi: i genuine geek? Jul 29 18:06:54 a Jul 29 18:07:02 ya I'll read that page again might have missed something Jul 29 18:07:06 Bubbi, i envy you. Jul 29 18:07:16 nerds are smacking me in the streets Jul 29 18:07:25 i started to develop muscles Jul 29 18:07:30 hi, i've got a problem with the motion sensors with the freerunner. one does not seem to deliver any data. any ideas? Jul 29 18:07:34 i really do not what's happening to my body ;( Jul 29 18:07:37 Bill_: Nope.. not really.. I've still haven't figured out how to play ping pong on the neo.. so, I wouldn't consider myself a geek yet. :) Jul 29 18:08:06 chefo, as i just said, i aint got one :(((( Jul 29 18:08:11 yeah.. a friend of mine (also a geek) already mocked me that i finally bought a wiimote with a screen Jul 29 18:08:19 hehe ;) Jul 29 18:08:28 wiinie Jul 29 18:08:28 sry, i joined too late, i guess Jul 29 18:08:38 TAsn: heh.. well, I hope that they will soon start delivery of more freerunners.. Jul 29 18:08:51 anyway, s/b got any idea? Jul 29 18:09:01 Bubbi, i hope you are right. Jul 29 18:09:34 chefo: Nope, sorry.. i haven't even got so far as to the accelerometers.. :D Jul 29 18:09:36 well im off to take a shower, please pray for me :) Jul 29 18:18:11 If I want to create a script on the neo, how and where should I do this..? Jul 29 18:18:27 me too, the wifi config file. Jul 29 18:18:40 let me check if this is in getting started faq :) Jul 29 18:18:42 I'm trying to do as is described here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bt-net-script But i'm not at all experienced with scripts.. :) Jul 29 18:20:20 If anyone is interested in putting a screen protector on their FreeRunner/Neo, I'd recommend getting a Nintendo DS set off of ebay Jul 29 18:20:22 hm, long one. do you wanna type that in directly on neo? go in via USB and type it :) Jul 29 18:20:26 the one I got is made by Hori, and it's amazing Jul 29 18:21:47 LionKMP: I'm already connected to the freerunner by USB, but I would like to get Bluetooth working.. not that I have anything to use it for at the moment Jul 29 18:23:45 Nobody know how to use scripts..? It seems to be quite a great deal of Linux.. I'm just quite new to Linux myself.. so I haven't had the joy of trying it yet.. :) Jul 29 18:24:28 scripts? depends on what do you want to script? Jul 29 18:24:46 you can use either simple bash scripts or you can whip up a whole app in python Jul 29 18:25:35 Bubbi, what's your problem? ssh into the Neo from PC, start "vi", press "i" to go to insert mode, paste the script itself, then type ":w bt-net" to save that script. Jul 29 18:25:55 then type ":q" to quit the "vi" editor, and type "sh bt-net" to start this script. Jul 29 18:26:00 Bill_: Well.. It's the script that's on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bt-net-script Jul 29 18:26:05 * kd8ikt installed nano Jul 29 18:26:13 LionKMP: That's how...? :) Jul 29 18:26:26 what does the sh stand for in "sh bt-net" ? Jul 29 18:26:34 /bin/sh Jul 29 18:26:41 shellc_2.6.1.bb do_package failed Jul 29 18:26:41 ERROR: Task 200 (/home/kd8ikt/devel/mokoMadness/sources/mokomake/FSO/openembedded/packages/glibc/glibc_2.6.1.bb, do_package) failed Jul 29 18:26:44 NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 588 tasks of which 0 didn't need to be rerun and 1 failed. Jul 29 18:26:55 Bubbi: scp downloaded_script 192.168.0.201: , log into fr and sh ./downloaded_script :) Jul 29 18:27:08 sh - as in shell Jul 29 18:27:28 Bubbi: that just starts the bt-net script. if you don't type "sh" you need to "chmod 755 bt-net" to make it runnable and then "./bt-net" to start it. Easier with "sh bt-net" :) Jul 29 18:27:30 Oh.. it's that easy..? :) Jul 29 18:27:32 so it will be executed in shell even it it doesnt have execute flag on it Jul 29 18:27:55 I'll just try it.. :) Jul 29 18:27:55 DL! Jul 29 18:28:00 C! Jul 29 18:28:08 \o/ Jul 29 18:28:14 what..? :D Jul 29 18:28:19 What's poppin' Jul 29 18:28:19 i'll buy a beer to whoever makes ASU fast.. really... Jul 29 18:28:23 it's painful Jul 29 18:28:26 altho pretty Jul 29 18:28:26 Bill, haha Jul 29 18:28:26 ah.. :) Jul 29 18:28:29 Dave: not much Jul 29 18:28:34 heh Jul 29 18:28:59 * Bill_ is thinking about moving back to Nokia^h^h^h^h^hQtopia Jul 29 18:29:32 :-) Jul 29 18:29:37 Where should I place the script..? Is there a specific place or just a recommended directory..? Jul 29 18:29:43 no skin off myback Jul 29 18:30:19 skin off my paycheck Jul 29 18:30:23 if the script itself doesn't assume, that it has to be in some specific place then you can leave it there Jul 29 18:30:27 ~/ is a good place to start Bubbi Jul 29 18:30:28 ...but / is already something else... Jul 29 18:30:32 and just know that its in root home Jul 29 18:30:44 ~shush Jul 29 18:30:45 Fine, I'll shut up. Jul 29 18:31:23 ;) Jul 29 18:31:33 no we like you apt Jul 29 18:32:11 ok.. anyone here also using ASU? Jul 29 18:32:35 how on earth do i get gtk apps to show up in Illume? Jul 29 18:32:53 do i really have to start writing my own .desktop files?? Jul 29 18:32:57 alright :) thanks.. It's just that I didn't know if it was good to just place in in ~/ Jul 29 18:33:38 Bubbi: you can put anything anywhere aslong as you know where they are Jul 29 18:33:53 wow.. that was deep... Jul 29 18:34:02 is there any indication of charging? (e.g. a /proc file if not better? :) ) Jul 29 18:34:27 wtf i twas charged and turned off before i went to bed now its acting like its low on batt Jul 29 18:34:28 ;) Jul 29 18:34:35 is the statement about flatting the battery TRUE on freerunner getting started? Jul 29 18:34:45 LionKMP: yup Jul 29 18:35:01 it's intentional that the battery charging circut is turned on by running kernel Jul 29 18:35:11 that sad. I should have ordered a replacement battery :) WHY? Jul 29 18:35:25 don't ask me why... i'm wondering myself Jul 29 18:35:37 ok :) thanks Jul 29 18:35:38 cock lock it and stop it Jul 29 18:36:01 er. Jul 29 18:36:10 can I see charging somewhere? Jul 29 18:39:03 i wonder if it's intentional that ASU runs on pure framebuffer Jul 29 18:39:09 Connection reset by fear Jul 29 18:39:14 I've been wondering too if there were an indicator about how much battery there's left in percentages instead of the not so precise battery indicator on the 2007.02 interface Jul 29 18:39:31 that magic eightball app is pretty sweet. Jul 29 18:39:51 trix: what's that..? Jul 29 18:39:58 http://westhoffs-welt.de/blog/my_first_openmoko_application.html Jul 29 18:40:06 opkg install http://westhoffswelt.de/data/blog/moko_eightball/moko-eightball_0.20080721_om-gta02.ipk Jul 29 18:40:12 don't replace your neod. Jul 29 18:40:13 Bubbi: not so precise? it's not displaying anything for me. (been charging for 3-4 hours since it arrived) Jul 29 18:40:24 trix.,, should i try? Jul 29 18:40:27 Bill_: is it? Jul 29 18:40:37 LionKMP: ?? Jul 29 18:40:40 only if you want a magic 8-ball on your FR ;) Jul 29 18:40:47 oh i sure do Jul 29 18:40:52 trying it out Jul 29 18:40:56 Bill_: is it running on framebuffer? Jul 29 18:40:59 yup Jul 29 18:41:14 root 2688 1 0 21:02 ? 00:00:00 xinit /etc/X11/Xsession -- /usr/bin/Xfbdev :0 -pn -dpi 285 -screen 480x640 -hide Jul 29 18:41:17 root 2692 2688 5 21:02 ? 00:02:11 /usr/bin/Xfbdev :0 -pn -dpi 285 -screen 480x640 -hide-cursor -root-ppm /usr/shar Jul 29 18:41:26 the aim was to port qtopia stuff to x AFAIK. Jul 29 18:41:28 you'll need to at least restart X after installing it, Bill (a reboot may be required) Jul 29 18:41:35 why so? Jul 29 18:41:47 LionKMP: are you using the 2007.02 image..? It should be in the upper right corner.. Jul 29 18:42:26 awww.. "Outrlook not so good" Jul 29 18:42:30 no restart needed Jul 29 18:42:33 Bubbi: yes, default image. Can't update yet, as plug is busy with wall charger. Factory default image. Battery is a black, with a "flash" sign in it. Jul 29 18:42:34 lol nice Jul 29 18:43:18 http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/neo_freerunner/06_registered.jpg that one, Bubbi. Jul 29 18:43:24 i think the patched neod is for the accellerometers cause neod likes to steal /dev/input/event2 and 3 and not allow anyone else to read from it Jul 29 18:43:28 only a matter of time before somebody makes a moko 'more cowbell' app and then the gloves come off Jul 29 18:43:34 LionKMP: trolltech had already 'ported' qtopia to x11. Openmoko is trying to make it play well using other X elements like other wm/launcher Jul 29 18:43:45 trix: anyway.. works nicely with latest ASU Jul 29 18:43:57 lpotter: oh, thank you. Jul 29 18:44:24 LionKMP: Ah yes.. the're no indication as to how far the charging have reached.. Jul 29 18:45:07 Bubbi: and no "animation" to show it IS actually charging. Well, ok, probably it does. Jul 29 18:45:19 /bin/sh: joe not found Jul 29 18:45:26 :) Jul 29 18:45:47 bah.. joe.. vi forever :) Jul 29 18:45:52 brb...booting to kde 4.1 :) Jul 29 18:46:08 Bill_: well, try with the 2007.2 image :) Jul 29 18:46:11 LionKMP: The only indication there is, is when it's done.. Then it stops the "flash" and the battery shows as a green box instead Jul 29 18:46:24 wowo.. kde4.1 is out indeed Jul 29 18:46:41 LionKMP: don't have one atm Jul 29 18:47:09 just flashed ASU over my qtopia Jul 29 18:47:31 altho i must sai that qtopia is by far the fastest UI atm Jul 29 18:47:45 hm, I would like to see snapshot review and recommended snapshots for ASU :( Jul 29 18:47:47 but also the only one with serious echo/buzzing issues on gsm Jul 29 18:48:10 how do you restart X..? Jul 29 18:48:15 gah, just had a 5.8 earthquake Jul 29 18:48:24 Chox: ooh, where? Jul 29 18:48:25 :( Jul 29 18:48:29 Chox: where? Jul 29 18:48:32 http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/ Jul 29 18:48:35 looks like a 5.8 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Quakes/ci14383980.php Jul 29 18:48:50 snap Jul 29 18:49:17 * Chox is in San Diego, so some distance Jul 29 18:49:23 :p Jul 29 18:49:29 I just got the latest ASU from the downloads.openmoko.org feed, and I can't find where to select full-qwerty on the keyboard Jul 29 18:49:35 I don't know how to type spaces and stuff. Jul 29 18:49:35 quake it like it's hot Jul 29 18:49:43 Or backspace and such. Jul 29 18:49:59 GoldenHawk: try a snapshot from 0721 Jul 29 18:50:15 i just flashed that into mine, and it works.. slow as hell, but works Jul 29 18:50:16 Bill_: This is a known thing? Jul 29 18:50:49 yup, with 0722 Jul 29 18:50:58 Bill_: Is it a bug or are they working to remove the 'full-qwerty' selection? Jul 29 18:51:00 either follow the steps in http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/024129.html Jul 29 18:51:12 it's a mishap, as much as i know Jul 29 18:51:26 Bill_: Okay.. maybe I can make do with the predictive on-screen keyboard for now. Jul 29 18:51:35 GoldenHawk: read the post Jul 29 18:51:40 Bill_: k Jul 29 18:51:52 there are details, how to get the full keyboard running when its missing Jul 29 18:54:00 trix: I tried to install the eightball thing.. But it doesn't look like it worked.. I'm using the 2007.02 image.. Could that be of importance..? Jul 29 18:54:42 yay for earthquakes Jul 29 18:54:46 trix: It gave me an error.. "Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 But that file is already provided by package * libncurses5" Jul 29 18:54:51 Bubbi: which kernel? Jul 29 18:55:23 Bubbi, I have it installed on 2007.2 so I don't think that's it. (although I am opkg upgraded to most recent) Jul 29 18:55:43 could be.. Jul 29 18:56:21 Bill_: I'm not entirely sure.. How would I be able to see which version i'm using..? Jul 29 18:56:45 Bill_: That post didn't help. Jul 29 18:57:01 Bill_: It's unrelated. My keyboard works fine, it just doesn't have a Full-QWERTY option. Jul 29 18:57:16 I've just run a opkg update/upgrade and it didn't install anything new, as far as i can tell... Jul 29 18:57:49 Bubbi, cat /proc/version Jul 29 18:58:30 Bubbi, i'm on 2.6.24 ... Fri Jul 25 02:21:19 CEST 2008 Jul 29 18:59:23 trix: I'm on Linux version 2.6.24 ... Sat Jul 26 01:11:56 CEST 2008 Jul 29 19:00:17 hmm Jul 29 19:00:50 imho it's exactly about that Jul 29 19:01:31 aftershocktastic. Jul 29 19:01:37 Linux om-gta02 2.6.24 #71 PREEMPT Wed Jul 16 13:45:35 CDT 2008 armv4tl unknown here and the eightball works fine Jul 29 19:01:50 so it's probably not kernel Jul 29 19:02:24 alright.. i just did another opkg install, and now it installed all fine.. and I can see it in the application area Jul 29 19:02:51 so I've successfully dealt with sms and phone calls on my neo now finally Jul 29 19:03:01 I mean, I'd made test calls before, but no conversations because I never had it stable Jul 29 19:03:19 blaat blah Jul 29 19:03:21 asu seems stable enough...though enlightment crashed once and restarted itself. Jul 29 19:03:29 Dave! Jul 29 19:03:30 ? Jul 29 19:03:41 jadams__: that doesn't make it stable.. :D Jul 29 19:04:22 hmh.. i tried calls also with ASU Jul 29 19:04:24 Bubbi, stable for making calls Jul 29 19:04:27 calling was fine Jul 29 19:04:32 ;) Jul 29 19:04:32 it's just so horribly slow Jul 29 19:04:36 Bubbi, the call wouldn't have dropped even when e was restarting, since it's fso, am I right? Jul 29 19:04:41 yeah, it is very slow Jul 29 19:04:54 okay.., so i'm not the only one.. Jul 29 19:05:21 i think i'll move back to eithe 2007.2 or qtopia for now.. as ASU really is too slow for everyday use Jul 29 19:05:24 oh yeah, one more bug I've reported before and been told my device was wonky - my contacts on my sim are truncated Jul 29 19:05:25 are developers still updating the 2007.2? or does eveyone work on ASU? Which one to choose as new user? Jul 29 19:05:33 actually, there's just a big chunk (L-X) missing Jul 29 19:05:42 fso Jul 29 19:05:50 LionKMP: HSR actually Jul 29 19:05:57 SHR Jul 29 19:06:05 whatever the order was :) Jul 29 19:06:10 heh. Jul 29 19:06:16 it was hybrid and stable.. :) that much i remember Jul 29 19:06:20 did developers switch to SHR? abandoning 2007.2 and ASU? Jul 29 19:06:25 LionKMP: i'd stick with 2007.2 for the time being Jul 29 19:06:38 LionKMP: same here.. or qtopia Jul 29 19:06:45 trix: is that still receiving some updates, bugfixes, features, packages? Jul 29 19:06:53 yep. Jul 29 19:07:02 qtopia is _really_ fast compared to everything else available on FR Jul 29 19:07:15 SHR will have stuff from 2007.2 and ASU pumped into them as appropriate. Jul 29 19:07:24 it's not like every day is christmas morning at the north pole though, some patience is needed :) Jul 29 19:07:26 isn't it a huge work to port these still coming programs to SHR? or are them the same codebase? Jul 29 19:07:56 I can't imagine how all these are developed in the same time. Jul 29 19:08:19 LionKMP: the main point with SHR is, that nothing needs to actually be ported Jul 29 19:08:29 the X is there already.. the environment is there Jul 29 19:09:15 only thing that may need porting is FSO backend services.. but these are still miles away Jul 29 19:09:20 hello Jul 29 19:09:38 anyone getting screenshot ISO convert errors? Jul 29 19:10:04 anyone from official devel team are welcome to correct me.. but that's what i've understood from community mailinglist Jul 29 19:10:07 I see. which GUI is used? the programs from Qutopia so same as ASU? (and are 2007.2 dialer, contacts discontinued?) Jul 29 19:10:22 some mix and match of them Jul 29 19:10:29 afaik Jul 29 19:10:29 :-) Jul 29 19:10:47 damn.. i'm running out of rum... Jul 29 19:10:49 i made an opkg upgrade and when the neo boots up it shows the new sqlash with the shoe on it and 1s later the standart bootscreen (orange one with openmoko logo) overlaps it. how can i disable the original standart splash? Jul 29 19:11:16 brb Jul 29 19:11:27 anybody able to figure the reason for opkg upgrade causes reboot s to fail? Jul 29 19:11:34 image corruption, basically. Jul 29 19:11:51 LionKMP, it appears that among the first orders of business is to make the 2007.2 phone apps run on top of the fso framework through translation, but that's just an impression from the sidelines Jul 29 19:13:20 mjr: hehe, well, that's why it's so difficult to understand what to do. Maybe openmoko could take a direction and communicate that clearly. Jul 29 19:13:50 well seems their direction is, well, fso, and a merry anarchy on top Jul 29 19:14:07 :-) Jul 29 19:14:08 :o Jul 29 19:14:26 there's no obvious leadership or direction from OM. Jul 29 19:14:28 anyway.. it seems like i'm moving back to 2007.2 Jul 29 19:14:37 might require someone from the community to provide it Jul 29 19:15:22 is there a serious amount of code created outside OpenMoko Inc.? the community? Jul 29 19:15:38 I mean, code which is in the "trunk". not external applications. Jul 29 19:16:13 well, like most OSS projects, it relies heavily upon existing stuff. OM is very much based upon OpenEmbedded, which was designed to be used like this. Jul 29 19:16:24 OpenWrt is much the same Jul 29 19:16:31 true that Jul 29 19:16:50 basicly glorified busybox with X Jul 29 19:16:58 yessir. with knobs. Jul 29 19:17:02 OpenEmbedded has never succeeded to build OM for me. (The basic idea is great, as I understand it.) Jul 29 19:18:00 and which distribution is building if I build OE? ASU? SHR? FSO? or are them all available separately? Jul 29 19:18:07 heh Jul 29 19:18:23 LionKMP: OpenEmbedded is used in a lot of places ... al the dreambox sat receivers are powered by a OE build image Jul 29 19:18:26 OE is really just a framework. you won't get any of those distros out of it. Jul 29 19:18:44 you need to follow the OM build stuff, which pulls various OE stuff Jul 29 19:19:10 OpenWRT build their own build framework .. and called it Kamikaze :-) Jul 29 19:19:32 actually, Kamikaze is the version of OpenWrt, not the framework Jul 29 19:19:42 just a name, like the Ubuntu names Jul 29 19:19:49 true.. previous one was white russian Jul 29 19:19:54 yea i love the openwrt builder Jul 29 19:20:00 Chox: mm then it must be BuildRoot-NG or something like that Jul 29 19:20:00 like building a kerne; Jul 29 19:20:11 wut. Jul 29 19:20:21 oh yeah. or something. it's been a year. Jul 29 19:20:24 what's with the army boots, just noticed that Jul 29 19:20:33 kd8ikt: but that builder must be easy to port to OpenMoko ... or not? Jul 29 19:20:33 railer: boot ing Jul 29 19:20:41 hm, are there openwrt builds for the freerunner? Jul 29 19:20:41 make menuconfig and make thats it Jul 29 19:20:42 Rigolo: probably. Jul 29 19:20:50 ya that's a bad joke Jul 29 19:20:59 Wonka: nto yet ... but you neven know ... Jul 29 19:21:07 but perhaps more complex than is required. OpenWrt has different requirements, and has to pander to a huge range of hardware. Jul 29 19:21:07 Rigolo: i know they want to do it Jul 29 19:21:19 yeah. they should probably animate them kicking too ;) Jul 29 19:21:24 * Rigolo was hoping for a mobile wireless router ... but the wifi in the FR does not work in AP mode Jul 29 19:21:24 fucking earthquakes :P Jul 29 19:21:33 Dave: heh. why so? Jul 29 19:21:42 DaveLab: hey! Jul 29 19:21:43 who had an Earthquake? Jul 29 19:21:50 http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Maps/118-34.html Jul 29 19:21:51 and earthquake where? Jul 29 19:21:53 a friend of mine called me a short time ago, freaking out Jul 29 19:21:59 I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Jul 29 19:22:03 from where? Jul 29 19:22:04 i'm sure master and monitor mode are well on the way Jul 29 19:22:06 shit. that's bad news. where in the world is it? Jul 29 19:22:11 They live in Chino :p Jul 29 19:22:20 kd8ikt: no master support in FR chip. Jul 29 19:22:23 the olympics!!1 Jul 29 19:22:29 what's going on, railer? Jul 29 19:22:38 You keepin' it real? Jul 29 19:22:47 5 .. right on the san andreas it looks like? Jul 29 19:22:58 not much broke my phone Jul 29 19:23:05 5 on the Railer scale Jul 29 19:23:06 playing with themes Jul 29 19:23:17 Dave: tell him to drive his Chico Cholo car in Cholo Jul 29 19:23:21 :P Jul 29 19:23:25 er in, Chino Jul 29 19:23:31 hah Jul 29 19:23:38 * Chox speak good Spanish, yessir! Jul 29 19:23:46 Evidently... Jul 29 19:23:54 NO ME GUSTA Jul 29 19:23:55 oh. Chino, California Jul 29 19:23:55 grr Jul 29 19:23:56 5 on the railer scale? I ain't THAT fat! Jul 29 19:24:02 5.8 Jul 29 19:24:04 haha ;p Jul 29 19:24:15 sure sure, old man Jul 29 19:24:21 you keep telling yourself that ;) Jul 29 19:24:24 no comprehende Jul 29 19:24:35 Oooh! Jul 29 19:24:41 New accelerometer app. Jul 29 19:24:44 Just cause I guys got a little man boob going, don't mean he causes earthquakes! Jul 29 19:24:49 SpeedierEvil Jul 29 19:24:50 Crowd-sourced earthquake logging. Jul 29 19:25:01 * Chox laffs Jul 29 19:25:52 maybe they'd measure moobment with accelerometers Jul 29 19:26:09 just put one gta02 on the moob and watch it make the graphs Jul 29 19:26:16 boobment? Jul 29 19:26:18 Speedevil, really? where? Jul 29 19:26:22 CHox, I was just about to say that Jul 29 19:26:23 hahaha Jul 29 19:26:27 DaveLab: I was thinking Jul 29 19:26:34 Speedevil, oh. Jul 29 19:26:50 moob it moob it Jul 29 19:27:10 DaveLab: it has GPS for time, and could accurately report times and magnitudes of shaking. Jul 29 19:29:11 Yes we now measure earthquakes by taping FR's to the breast of fat men, they are no longer called Richter, they are now called "Homers" Jul 29 19:29:38 Boomers? Jul 29 19:29:42 Moobers? Jul 29 19:29:59 moobies Jul 29 19:29:59 Homr Jul 29 19:30:20 hi Jul 29 19:30:33 where is the folder where the shortscuts for the menu are stored (sry for my english) Jul 29 19:31:26 thomasgruebler: /usr/share/appli..... Jul 29 19:31:57 and there's been about 15 aftershocks. Jul 29 19:31:57 moo Jul 29 19:32:10 thx Jul 29 19:32:23 but you could add an pedometer to the FR that could be cool Jul 29 19:32:37 boobometer? Jul 29 19:33:21 <|Marco|> railer: that's one of the things I'd like to trye to make as soon as I understand how to get the right data from BOTH accelerometers Jul 29 19:33:36 the boobometer? Jul 29 19:33:44 yessir. Jul 29 19:33:57 <|Marco|> boobometer ? Jul 29 19:34:06 ya my guess it would be relativity easy once you have the command structure worked out Jul 29 19:34:13 m. fun. wonder if we could ask our girlfriends to test it out. ;) Jul 29 19:34:22 Baywatch. Jul 29 19:34:28 I could, but my wife might object Jul 29 19:34:28 BABEWATCH Jul 29 19:34:29 |Marco|: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_data_retrieval Jul 29 19:34:35 boobwatch. Jul 29 19:34:36 Chox, object, why? Jul 29 19:34:37 nvm Jul 29 19:34:53 jealous or something. dunno. Jul 29 19:34:54 <|Marco|> Wonka: I'm trying to find out how to use dbus in python Jul 29 19:35:06 |Marco|: no idea Jul 29 19:35:13 <|Marco|> thanks for the url, but I'm allready reading it Jul 29 19:35:22 * Wonka would not object to a GF hacking the FR Jul 29 19:37:06 What were we talking about, anyway? Jul 29 19:37:41 quakes Jul 29 19:38:39 hey if you add the accelometer with gps you could give accurate walking vs running and distance travelled at what speeds Jul 29 19:39:10 the accelerometer is not accurate for that kind of thing Jul 29 19:39:19 It's find for step-rate Jul 29 19:39:22 fine Jul 29 19:39:39 mm yeah step, I misread Jul 29 19:39:50 it's useless for trying to use as an inertial guidance thing. Jul 29 19:40:05 yes, you need to combine it with GPS. that'd be accurate. Jul 29 19:40:27 we need a third axial 3d accelerometer Jul 29 19:40:33 wiitastic? Jul 29 19:40:42 I thikn with the both and some trials you could be pretty accurate.... nm what Chox said Jul 29 19:40:43 we're missing turns around the axis through the two accels Jul 29 19:40:51 Wonka: err - no Jul 29 19:41:01 SpeedEvil: ? Jul 29 19:41:06 Wonka: the existing accels cannot pick up any but the fastest turns. Jul 29 19:41:08 they are misaligned, i think Jul 29 19:41:13 Wonka: IIRC about 80RPM. Jul 29 19:41:18 SpeedEvil: ouch Jul 29 19:41:28 SpeedEvil: btw, you're writing in boldface? Jul 29 19:41:57 only needs to be accurate over some distance, not very short ranges. Jul 29 19:42:20 Jul 29 19:42:21 Chox: the sensors have one bit of output difference when you spin the FR at 80RPM. Jul 29 19:42:31 ok, then scrap the two axial accels and get one which is 3d axial and 3d radial combined... Jul 29 19:42:42 yes, short range you can "guess" with the accelerometer Jul 29 19:42:46 what you want is gyroscopes. Jul 29 19:42:55 so don't put it in your washing machine? Jul 29 19:43:04 gyro compass? Jul 29 19:43:06 But those are $15/axis - compared with $1/axis or under for accels. Jul 29 19:43:12 Wonka: no - MEMS accels. Jul 29 19:43:32 SpeedEvil: cool Jul 29 19:43:43 dont the 3d accels work as gyro's? Jul 29 19:43:45 also, i want a 3d magnetic compass Jul 29 19:43:48 kd8ikt: no Jul 29 19:44:02 kd8ikt: you get instantaneous "down" Jul 29 19:44:14 google openmoko techincal accellerometer fundamentals Jul 29 19:44:51 and an ambient light sensor would be cool too Jul 29 19:44:58 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8337 Jul 29 19:45:01 gyro Jul 29 19:45:04 i played with the python script i though that was neato it gave me readings 0-1000 depending on its axis Jul 29 19:45:04 Wonka: your eyes? ;o Jul 29 19:45:10 in the light, you cannot read the display, and in the dark, it's blinding you Jul 29 19:45:24 and google will ask :Did you mean: openmoko technical accelerometer fundamentals   Jul 29 19:45:45 I can't spell accellelrllelrlelonmememtetr. Jul 29 19:46:01 faster! Jul 29 19:46:16 the jiggle meter Jul 29 19:46:30 anyone know if I can get dialup PPP access on the FR? Jul 29 19:47:06 heh, nvm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Pppd Jul 29 19:47:08 if you mean do a data call, yes. If you mean gprs, which is generally saner, yes. Jul 29 19:47:50 dial up ppp if you have free evening and weekends? Jul 29 19:48:11 damn.. there is actually only 2 things i dislike about 2007.2 Jul 29 19:48:20 (gprs isn't dialup, though, but I don't assume too rigidly that you know what you want ;) Jul 29 19:48:24 i just mean that the accels know where down is right? Jul 29 19:48:32 heh, i meant dialup, because I don't have a data plan :-D Jul 29 19:48:35 railer: if you like 9k6 speeds :-) .. and no calls for the whole weekend Jul 29 19:48:47 kd8ikt: yeah, but why does one need two of them? Jul 29 19:48:50 kd8ikt: down or right ? :-) Jul 29 19:49:08 right=correct Jul 29 19:49:09 1) lack of wifi config and 2) the issue with input after rotating screen Jul 29 19:49:14 mike--2, you do realize that data calls are often charged separate from voice calls too Jul 29 19:49:21 hmm Jul 29 19:49:22 i can't play openttd like this correctly.. Jul 29 19:49:37 mjr: i didn't think of that Jul 29 19:49:58 and are often more expensive (not quite necessarily though, depends on how far your telco thinks they can fuck you up the arse) Jul 29 19:49:58 how far is this Txx.xx demultiplexing stuff, so that gsm and gprs work simultaneously? Jul 29 19:49:58 yes i know i get on peoples back when i'm driving and they give me directions like "Straight" when i say damnit FORWARD Jul 29 19:50:03 hi Jul 29 19:50:21 which email client for openmoko? Jul 29 19:50:38 Wonka: is that technically possible then? Jul 29 19:50:45 zogs: what are you used to? Jul 29 19:50:45 Rigolo: afaik ja Jul 29 19:50:52 Rigolo: afaik yes Jul 29 19:51:01 openmoko default Jul 29 19:51:01 Wonka: ja is oke for me ;-) Jul 29 19:51:14 and saying left and i say left? "right" what?@! is it left or right say yes or something damnit Jul 29 19:51:25 i was running tangogps last night in my car and was wondering how hard it'd be to flip the X output horizontally so as to be readable as a reflection off my windshield Jul 29 19:51:35 * Rigolo needs to think about a certain John Cleese movie :-) Jul 29 19:51:39 <|Marco|> are there others having problems kompiling qte-mt-static ? Jul 29 19:51:57 lindi-, thunderbird?! Jul 29 19:52:25 is there a fix for the touchpad being off by about an inch in horizontal mode (in 2007.2) Jul 29 19:52:46 mike--2: dunno, but tell me if you find it Jul 29 19:52:47 and then i got to wondering whether it'd be possible to achieve some sort of auto flip based on accelerometer data indicating the device has been turned away from the user (while tango is running) Jul 29 19:53:17 i know there's no compass to provide direction but it should be possible to measure a quick rotation of the device Jul 29 19:53:21 urge to kill, rising... Jul 29 19:53:25 trix: and a locater beakon when it flew out of the open window in a shard turn :-) Jul 29 19:53:26 trix: it is Jul 29 19:53:30 gta02.py does this Jul 29 19:53:46 Save me Ainulindale-kenobi, you're my only hope! Jul 29 19:53:48 :p Jul 29 19:53:50 Rigolo, nooooooo! (i have lost a few pair of sunglasses that way) Jul 29 19:53:54 cjb, shittily, yes. Jul 29 19:54:11 yes, it seems slow to update Jul 29 19:54:18 <|Marco|> cjb: you can do it in the aux menu Jul 29 19:54:22 trix: A friend of mine a mobile phone .... in the water (long live amsterdam and it's canals :-) Jul 29 19:54:29 |Marco|: there's an aux menu? Jul 29 19:54:48 <|Marco|> hold the button on the top left for a few seconds Jul 29 19:54:54 <|Marco|> or just moments Jul 29 19:55:01 its, too Jul 29 19:55:14 <|Marco|> Chox: okay Jul 29 19:55:21 Rigolo, poor guy :) Jul 29 19:56:11 mm reading up on this simultanious voice and gprs thing ... what kind of gprs class is in the FR? read something about a class A, B or C phone Jul 29 19:56:39 B Jul 29 19:56:43 class OSS Jul 29 19:57:12 crap Jul 29 19:57:14 you can be registered on both and use the gprs; apparently there was some trouble getting call signaling through if the gprs is in active constant use, don't know if that's working out Jul 29 19:57:21 mjr ... so than you sacrifice voice quality for data if I read correctly Jul 29 19:57:23 cjb, thanks, i'll check that out Jul 29 19:57:25 I'm so good at breaking it! Jul 29 19:57:31 Rigolo: no. Jul 29 19:57:38 Rigolo, no. You get suspended data if doing voice. Jul 29 19:57:43 Rigolo: you have either a data connection, or a voice one. Jul 29 19:58:06 SHR is out? Jul 29 19:58:32 and suspended data means no lost connections .... dhcp assigned IP stays etc? Jul 29 19:58:37 SHR doesn't exist Jul 29 19:58:49 well .. at least not in bits :-) Jul 29 19:59:20 Rigolo, well, it'll recover as well as you'd expect from tcp getting cut for a while... Jul 29 19:59:53 (don't know if there are guarantees generally on the provider not cutting you off completely after some time) Jul 29 20:00:16 Method and apparatus for simultaneous circuit switched voice and GPRS data interchange (United States Patent 6282182 ) Jul 29 20:00:47 and how about this then: The standards have introduced a "Simple Class A", or Dual Transfer Mode device that simplifies the radio resource allocation. You get a half rate Voice timeslot and a half rate GPRS timeslot in succession. This is easily (or more easily) implemented on a single radio module. Jul 29 20:01:18 that would mean ... 50% voice quality .. but no "dropped" tcp/ip Jul 29 20:01:18 the neo is class b. Jul 29 20:01:37 okee .. so this is out then ... mmmm Jul 29 20:02:03 * Rigolo needs to talk to his mobile provider to see what they do with "suspended" data connections :-) Jul 29 20:02:10 probably nothing much Jul 29 20:02:44 drop 'em like they're hot? Jul 29 20:02:52 I've had ssh sessions survive voice calls on other class b hardware here in .fi Jul 29 20:03:35 mjr: and was it a long call ...or the typical 3 minute standard call? Jul 29 20:03:48 I don't really do long calls Jul 29 20:04:04 So I'm reading this article posted on Slashdot about how wifi and cell phones report signal strength, not quality, and therefore more bars isn't necessarily better due to possible noise Jul 29 20:04:05 http://www.dansdata.com/gz084.htm Jul 29 20:04:18 How does the FR report signal strength? Jul 29 20:04:40 Does it consider noise, or is it like most cell phones and just strength? Jul 29 20:04:45 Have you guys played with video on the FR? Jul 29 20:06:11 balrog-kun did that mpeg4-decoder support for mplayer Jul 29 20:06:31 well, initial at least :] Jul 29 20:07:01 I did a fresh 2007.2 install today, did update/upgrade, and the phone freezes at the openmoko loading/splash screen now. The power button doesn't work to turn it off even :( Jul 29 20:07:06 DaveLab: Could you please stop hilighting me if you just want nothing from me ? Jul 29 20:07:57 DaveLab DaveLab DaveLab DaveLab DaveLab DaveLab DaveLab DaveLab DaveLab Jul 29 20:08:03 :) Jul 29 20:10:17 i want an email client for openmoko-gta02 Jul 29 20:10:22 Yashy: congratulations ... your are user 18475 with that problem :-) Jul 29 20:10:26 mjr: I'm interested in what could be reasonably possible, Jul 29 20:10:33 zogs ... mutt :-) .. what else do you need ;-) Jul 29 20:10:35 hey. it's not showing the signal strength graph which it did in the morning Jul 29 20:10:35 mjr: size, framerate... Jul 29 20:10:46 Rigolo: 18476 with me Jul 29 20:10:47 Didin't know it was already reported. Do I win something? :) Jul 29 20:10:47 any reason why? Jul 29 20:11:07 Yashy: you'll want to flash your phone with daily kernel from 7/27 Jul 29 20:11:09 Yashy: a free DIY reflash :-) Jul 29 20:11:11 this resolved the problem for me Jul 29 20:11:22 without removing anything I had in userspace Jul 29 20:11:35 mike--2: ooo good to know that my suggestions worked :-) Jul 29 20:11:36 great, thanks! Jul 29 20:12:00 Rigolo: yeah, I mentioned that when I got it working :) thanks Jul 29 20:12:24 mike--2: maybe we can add this to the ticket as a work around sollution Jul 29 20:12:32 hmm, I didn't know there was a ticket Jul 29 20:13:11 mike .. what does opkg -test upgrade report now? nothing I would guess .. it thinks the kernel git25 is installed? or is that kernel from the 25 a git25 kernel? Jul 29 20:13:14 Aha, almost got a full screen movie (low res, low rate, but correct) Jul 29 20:13:33 McKael: qvga should be possible right? Jul 29 20:13:44 Rigolo: yep Jul 29 20:13:46 I'll verify it in a few minutes Jul 29 20:13:55 Rigolo: but it's slow Jul 29 20:14:16 McKael, google for "accelerating in my pocket" Jul 29 20:14:16 McKael: woot. Jul 29 20:14:19 McKael: did you check balrog his pages? Jul 29 20:14:21 I'm playing it over the network Jul 29 20:14:41 in order to reduce i/o Jul 29 20:14:43 try via gprs for extra geek points :-) Jul 29 20:14:56 lol Jul 29 20:14:59 McKael, basically there was reasonable success getting mpeg4 to play in qvga res on full framerate. But I haven't tried myself. Jul 29 20:15:05 Rigolo: opkg -test upgrade shows nothing Jul 29 20:15:20 so if I wanted to rebrick my phone i'd probably have to force the kernel upgrade :) Jul 29 20:15:23 mjr: ok, thanks Jul 29 20:15:36 Rigolo: can you remind me of the url? Jul 29 20:15:45 YES FIREFOX 3.0.1 comes to openmoko Jul 29 20:15:49 Rigolo, somebody actually did some video streaming over gprs. Claimed higher than extremely crappy quality, but dunno ;) Jul 29 20:15:52 McKael: do what mjr said .. Jul 29 20:16:00 XorA: ouch. Jul 29 20:16:03 uh oh, superbar on small screen ;-) Jul 29 20:16:05 * Yashy is booting 7/27 kernel with fingers crossed Jul 29 20:16:15 mjr: higher is better right :-) Jul 29 20:16:18 Anyone have the date & time on their main menu screen? Jul 29 20:16:39 yep. came default on the 200702 July 22th rootfs Jul 29 20:17:35 good news. gps is working. i got a ffix! Jul 29 20:17:36 \o/ Jul 29 20:17:37 mike--2: can you compare the opkg list_installed | grep kernel version with that from the 27th? if it is the same .. then there is something in the kernel flash procedure from opkg that breaks things I would think Jul 29 20:17:38 FUCK YEAH Jul 29 20:17:41 7/27 image booted, sweet! Jul 29 20:18:05 \o/ Jul 29 20:18:10 \o/ woohoo Jul 29 20:18:12 /o/ Jul 29 20:18:18 \o\ Jul 29 20:18:19 \o\ /o/ Jul 29 20:18:32 * Chox dances >-\o Jul 29 20:18:35 * Chox dances >-|o Jul 29 20:18:37 * Chox dances >-/o Jul 29 20:18:43 hrm Jul 29 20:18:49 blame bash.org Jul 29 20:18:49 Not much of a dancer, are you Jul 29 20:18:52 true. Jul 29 20:18:54 Gotta move yo feet! Jul 29 20:19:11 mjr: what gprs class is the GSM chip? Jul 29 20:19:12 * Chox dances <-/o Jul 29 20:19:14 * Yashy is a white male; the robot is all I have in my dance arsenal Jul 29 20:19:15 * Chox dances |-/o Jul 29 20:19:18 * Chox dances >-/o Jul 29 20:19:38 :P Jul 29 20:19:44 whoa, another quake Jul 29 20:19:58 SURPRISE! Jul 29 20:20:05 or is it? Jul 29 20:20:19 * Yashy wonders what the surprise is Jul 29 20:20:21 Rigolo: I'll check it out and let you know Jul 29 20:20:31 problem is, it might just be a passing truck. this building is old. Jul 29 20:20:36 the developers have all applications working perfectly? :) Jul 29 20:21:32 Yashy: yes .. the secetly have a full working FR that runs circles around the iphone in usabilty ... Jul 29 20:22:07 openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r75dc2954f8b1 10/packages/mozilla/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [firefox] working firefox for openmoko, from mamona with one fix from poky Jul 29 20:22:09 I knew it was just a matter of time... :) Jul 29 20:22:21 i'll get rich once i invent a device that allows me to stab people over the internet ;) Jul 29 20:22:59 there guys, have fun with firefox Jul 29 20:23:10 sweet! Jul 29 20:23:13 mkay Jul 29 20:23:17 installing it in a sec Jul 29 20:23:19 Rigolo, 12 iirc, you'll get as fast as plain gprs goes. That is not very, but anyway :] Jul 29 20:24:54 mjr: and could you reconfigure the allocation of channels on the fly, like based on last average bandwidth saturation or something like that? that would be handy :-) Jul 29 20:25:31 and the good news is, apart from the theme, firefox 3 runs at a decent speed on freerunner Jul 29 20:26:11 turns out was only a 5.4. I guessed a 5.5. woot. Jul 29 20:26:17 * Rigolo can remember adding a extra idsn channel when needed .. and dropping it again when there was voice .. or when there was no need based on bandwith consumption Jul 29 20:26:34 XorA: can't find it.. maybe i'm overlooking something Jul 29 20:26:42 Bill_: you need to build it Jul 29 20:26:47 mkay Jul 29 20:26:50 no package yet? Jul 29 20:27:03 just commited to svn like 3 secs ago Jul 29 20:27:09 in that case.. let's put together a build env :) Jul 29 20:27:18 hey.. you could've built it also :) Jul 29 20:27:30 wasn't me :-) Jul 29 20:27:30 I have it built, but something is wrong with buildhost Jul 29 20:27:42 ahh.. ok.. Jul 29 20:27:43 * Rigolo knows how to write C plusplus .. that is it :-) Jul 29 20:28:07 Rigolo: opkg list_installed shows all the kernel stuff as git25 Jul 29 20:28:08 opkg update && opkg install firefox Jul 29 20:28:09 * Bill_ has only writted helloworld in Cpp back in the times of KDE2 Jul 29 20:28:14 An error ocurred, return value: 2. Jul 29 20:28:27 is there I way I can see what the 7/27 comes with without re-flashing? Jul 29 20:28:44 mike--2: what do you mean? Jul 29 20:29:04 mike--2: pull down the source tree to your desktop and diff? :) Jul 29 20:29:11 mike--2: have a good look at the download page on buildhost ... there you can see the version Jul 29 20:29:23 Yashy: binary diff :-) Jul 29 20:29:42 mike--2: you can boot it from ram Jul 29 20:29:42 Rigolo, I have the impression that channels are dynamically allocated to an extent, but not really sure on those details Jul 29 20:29:47 Rigolo: I was just thinking that opkg might not know what kernel is installed Jul 29 20:29:57 because i just flashed a new kernel on it, and didn't use opkg to do it Jul 29 20:30:23 quite true. unless you stuck to opkg for kernel installs, it won't know. Jul 29 20:30:32 mike--2: that is correct, it "assumed" that your last opkg upgrade worked ... and you manually fixed that by manually flashing the git25 kernel image from the 27th Jul 29 20:30:53 git25 is the version of the kernel? Jul 29 20:31:21 is it light and salty? Jul 29 20:31:31 more meaty and sweet. Jul 29 20:31:31 mjr: well ... openmoko variant for the 2.6.24 kernel .. so 2.6.24 with git25 patches Jul 29 20:31:58 :D Jul 29 20:32:04 nice Jul 29 20:32:05 mjr .. in mean mike--2 ofcourse :-) Jul 29 20:32:11 sounds like my dinner Jul 29 20:32:20 long pig? Jul 29 20:32:39 Someone care to help me? I'm trying to compile nmap for the NF: http://pastebin.com/m29fe96b3 Jul 29 20:32:48 balrog-kun: there were people here look for video ... we refered them to your blog :-) Jul 29 20:32:54 Rigolo: hmm, so we're trying to find out if the kernel from 7/27 is the same as the most recent in opkg Jul 29 20:33:08 mike--2: yes .... Jul 29 20:33:17 mike--2: and I think it is .... Jul 29 20:33:45 uImage-2.6.24+git25+ I would think so too, because if I went to the bootloader before, and manually selected boot - it was telling me that the kernel was invalid Jul 29 20:33:57 looks the same as what opkg "installed" Jul 29 20:34:09 mike--2: I think it is, I didn't flash my kernel and it choked, I just did an update/upgrade Jul 29 20:34:19 Rigolo: which would indicate that it was opkg that screwed up, not the kernel update Jul 29 20:34:46 mike--2: that is also my idea right now .. Jul 29 20:36:13 mjr: I would guess only people at openmoko inc would know that answer about the channels? Jul 29 20:36:32 Is there a ticket opened for the opkg kernel update problem? Jul 29 20:36:39 I looked around but couldn't find it Jul 29 20:36:59 Rigolo, it's more of a general gprs thing, also I wouldn't be so sure many of them knew ;P Jul 29 20:36:59 16something ... Jul 29 20:38:16 Rigolo, googling a bit, http://www.newlc.com/GPRS-Class-overview.html says the class itself implies dynamic allocation happening on the background Jul 29 20:38:51 this occurs in the gsm chipset, which is a black box to us Jul 29 20:39:18 woot off! Jul 29 20:39:28 Rigolo: ah cool, the information there is still valid :) Jul 29 20:39:30 mjr: well .. it supports dynamic allocations ... if it really does it .. that is something else Jul 29 20:39:34 http://www.woot.com/ new piece of cheap crap every few minutes Jul 29 20:39:39 except you don't need to modify kernel anymore Jul 29 20:39:42 Chox: I know, I have about 60 text messages from the PHP script that notifies me when the woot item changes :-D Jul 29 20:39:50 hah Jul 29 20:39:56 good for stress testing the messaging program Jul 29 20:46:25 llo Jul 29 20:47:59 hm, how can I send an SMS to a number that starts with a #? Jul 29 20:48:04 this is the last question atm :-) Jul 29 20:48:15 if i plug in the headset jack perfectly Jul 29 20:48:22 without any gaps, then i can't hear anything Jul 29 20:48:29 hi, regarding: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Simple_Manual_Linux_Configuration Jul 29 20:48:33 but if i dont, it it's 4 mm away, it woks. Jul 29 20:48:34 Guilt: play with the alsamixer... Jul 29 20:48:37 do I type this in openmoko or the PC? Jul 29 20:48:41 ah.... strange :) Jul 29 20:48:49 Zorkman: exactly Jul 29 20:49:20 LionKMP: something you enter in your host pc and other things on your freerunner, i thought it was al clearly stated... Jul 29 20:49:51 the only real thing you have to do on your freerunner is changing the nameserver Jul 29 20:50:03 (and ping to see if it works) Jul 29 20:50:08 the linked section is the first one dealing with commands, and it does not mention either side. Jul 29 20:50:08 * Chox will answer any networking problems. Jul 29 20:50:35 zorkman seems to have it in hand, however :o Jul 29 20:50:35 LionKMP: Everything inside the "Simple Manual Linux Configuration" section, you write on the pc Jul 29 20:50:37 ah, the link you type on your host machine Jul 29 20:51:19 http://cgi.ebay.com/Open-Moko-Neo-Freerunner-Linux-Phone_W0QQitemZ180270894847QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3312QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Jul 29 20:51:25 another FR on ebay Jul 29 20:51:29 I'll edit the wiki so it explicitly states you have to type on the host (or would you rather do that Chox, since it's almost your own page ;-)) Jul 29 20:51:29 actja Jul 29 20:51:37 Zorkman: what's wrong? Jul 29 20:51:47 go ahead, just use clear wording. Jul 29 20:52:21 "Very nice stylus pen" Jul 29 20:52:21 actually I already have the host part, from the mandriva section. (it brings up usb0 since I connected neo) Jul 29 20:52:59 so glue a 4mm spacer on your jack Jul 29 20:53:04 Very nice stylus penmore liek crap top heavy gumball machine toy Jul 29 20:54:09 that would mean the receptacle is mounted too close to the surface Jul 29 20:54:11 Zorkman: is there something a connector not properly wired insde? Jul 29 20:54:18 kd8ikt: but it has a laser ^^ Jul 29 20:54:31 Guilt: I have no idea Jul 29 20:54:42 put that stylus on a shelf Jul 29 20:54:45 But you must admit that it feels rather solid.. :) Jul 29 20:54:48 I think the Neo side commands is missing from that page, isn't it? Jul 29 20:55:07 damngit i'm locked out of two of my gmail accounts Jul 29 20:55:14 round an soft Jul 29 20:55:24 kd8ikt: how do you do that? wrong passwords? Jul 29 20:55:36 yea Jul 29 20:55:39 i gonna make a new screencover>) Jul 29 20:56:01 the stylus is one of the only things in the openmoko package that works ;) Jul 29 20:56:09 lolol Jul 29 20:56:20 dont say that Jul 29 20:56:29 hahaha Jul 29 20:56:33 i like my devices Jul 29 20:56:34 cause its bullshit Jul 29 20:56:35 kd8ikt you can say everything when you put a smiley after it :) Jul 29 20:56:42 actually i had a hard time making the ballpen work.. :P Jul 29 20:56:49 someone here pointed me to a link about filtering input events (context was right-clicking). i lost the link :( Jul 29 20:57:07 ecraven: there is an archive of this channel Jul 29 20:57:10 is there a wiki for the stylus? Jul 29 20:57:16 haha.. Jul 29 20:57:25 (at least there used to be one, do'nt see why it wouldn't exist anymore) Jul 29 20:57:28 wat about the batts? Jul 29 20:57:52 probly 5 bucks worth batteries Jul 29 20:57:56 there are no bats in my freerunner, they had to share the cave with the glamo and the SD, there was not enough space Jul 29 20:58:25 some extra space by the sdcard Jul 29 20:59:28 about the stylus.. it might have been better if it didn't weigh that much and if the buttons on it wouldn't be so "loose".. they are making noise, if you're just shaking the damn pen Jul 29 20:59:30 Zorkman: onoo .. an archive .. so everything is logged ... aaaarrggghhh :-) Jul 29 21:00:25 yeah, they'll probably use it to blackmail our grandchildren... Jul 29 21:00:56 Bubbi: you can use whatever stylus you want Jul 29 21:01:04 well ... I always use white enveloppes .. so they can not blackmail me :-) Jul 29 21:01:58 althoug the government here sometimes "bluemail" me ... some kind of extortion scheme they are running :-) Jul 29 21:02:05 destination host unreachable :( Jul 29 21:02:06 ecraven: I know.. but now we're talking about the stylus that is delivered with the neo.. :) And that could have been "improved".. chosen with better thought Jul 29 21:02:25 ifconfig looks ok on both sides Jul 29 21:02:47 yeah, ifconfig really has a nice rack and buttom Jul 29 21:02:50 Bubbi: a lot of things could have been better ;) but then, a lot of things could have been worse too Jul 29 21:03:17 LionKMP: does "route -n" look ok too? Jul 29 21:04:34 Chox: your quake has made it to the dutch newspapers already :-) Jul 29 21:04:42 ecraven: definitely..! things could be worse.. At least the Neo is what we wanted, and we can at least make it work. Jul 29 21:05:06 aye Jul 29 21:05:07 ecraven: both has this usb0 rule: 192.168.0.200 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.252 U 10 0 0 usb0 Jul 29 21:05:27 252 is from the Mandriva section of the same Wiki page (usb networking) Jul 29 21:05:53 metric is 0 on neo. Jul 29 21:06:18 there are some "169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 10 0 0 usb0" stuff too, dunno why. Jul 29 21:06:39 muh. Jul 29 21:06:54 looks like dhcp Jul 29 21:07:12 you shouldn't have those i think :) Jul 29 21:07:31 try to get rid of them (route del 169.254.0.0) Jul 29 21:07:33 or avahi autonetworking .. 169.254 is the auto assigned ip range right? Jul 29 21:07:46 iirc, yes Jul 29 21:08:10 did you try ping 192.168.0.202 from the host? Jul 29 21:08:27 yes, destination unreachable. Jul 29 21:09:12 what does ifconfig eth0 (or whatever it is) report as an ip address? Jul 29 21:09:45 http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134479 Jul 29 21:09:48 only 1GB tho. Jul 29 21:09:58 moment, I lost usb0 IP address with a service network restart on host :( Jul 29 21:10:25 4$AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA you cant loose Jul 29 21:10:43 ok where'd those AA's comee vrom Jul 29 21:11:14 kd8ikt: your new "multitap" keyboard for your desktop? Jul 29 21:11:47 yeah its the new newb basher model Jul 29 21:12:05 extra keys for w00t and stfu Jul 29 21:12:19 Chox: I like thos special offers ... liek the no payments for up to 12 months ... (do not look at the minimu purchare required bit) Jul 29 21:12:52 :p Jul 29 21:13:06 and shipping to .nl Jul 29 21:13:39 well .. free shipping ... via bottle mail .. (no garantueed delivery) Jul 29 21:16:11 screw dat Jul 29 21:16:31 cheapest SDHC micro here is a 4Gb class 6 ... 10.16 EURO ex shipping Jul 29 21:16:42 i configured the same IP to both. There are no instructions for Neo commands so I typed the same. :-) (and forgot to adjust) I try starting over. Jul 29 21:16:55 LionKMP: tsk. Jul 29 21:17:01 hehe, that won't work Jul 29 21:17:08 there's nothing to change on Neo except maybe DNS Jul 29 21:17:08 the ips have to be different Jul 29 21:17:19 quite probably dns Jul 29 21:17:27 but you don't need dns for sshing into the fr Jul 29 21:17:30 1Gb sd Micro i can get here for 1.71 Euro :-) Jul 29 21:17:36 * Chox demands DNS! Jul 29 21:17:39 :oi Jul 29 21:17:55 so that is about 4 USD with todays rate right ;-) Jul 29 21:17:58 i need to find a way to set the fr's dns to my machine's dns, whatever that is Jul 29 21:18:00 oy Jul 29 21:18:04 ECRAVEN! Jul 29 21:18:09 heyya DaveLab :) Jul 29 21:18:17 ecraven, edit resolv.conf :P Jul 29 21:18:23 is that too hard? ;) Jul 29 21:18:25 too much work Jul 29 21:18:26 ecraven: er, cat /etc/resolv.conf, copy result to FR Jul 29 21:18:31 * Chox spanketh. Jul 29 21:18:34 should work automagically Jul 29 21:18:37 should. Jul 29 21:18:40 bah Jul 29 21:18:44 * Chox welcomes automagic solutions. Jul 29 21:18:45 it can't see THROUGH your network Jul 29 21:18:53 it's not the eye of sauron, for crying out loud Jul 29 21:18:54 ecraven: set FR dns to local host and let networking scripts determine where the localhost should forward them to .. via usb0, eth0 ppp0 etc Jul 29 21:18:54 ;) Jul 29 21:18:55 Dave: it can, with the right iptables rule. Jul 29 21:19:00 bbq0 Jul 29 21:19:05 lol0 Jul 29 21:19:05 :P Jul 29 21:19:09 bah Jul 29 21:19:12 Rigolo: then i'd need a local dns server Jul 29 21:19:15 which i don't want ;) Jul 29 21:19:16 mine was far better :P Jul 29 21:19:25 Ecraven, doesn't everybody have one? ;) Jul 29 21:19:27 bbq1!!011lol! Jul 29 21:19:40 ecraven: well ... forwardder/prxy ...like dnsmasq or something like that Jul 29 21:19:50 like iptables Jul 29 21:20:11 it's all there on the USB networking page Jul 29 21:20:22 DaveLab: event stuff starts to work, tomorrow i'll probably have it so that we can react to buttons, and maybe i can even rig up /dev/input/event1 and xdotool to do right-clicks Jul 29 21:20:32 * Rigolo wants something that keeps in working ... even if I hop wifi AP, switch to GPRS .. and then to usb networking Jul 29 21:20:39 hm.. good idea actually, thanks Rigolo, Chox Jul 29 21:20:44 ecraven: whatever it is you're doing, heroic! Jul 29 21:21:33 ecraven: will your heroic work also work on the asu? or only on debian? Jul 29 21:21:34 Rigolo: could whip up something with hotplug to do wifi vs USB, but the metrics on when to switch become tricky Jul 29 21:21:37 it should be possible to listen to /dev/input/event1, and detect when the user taps-and-holds without much movement, and then just artificially inject a right-click via xdotool (or whatever else) Jul 29 21:21:43 Zorkman: if you have xdotool, it should work :) Jul 29 21:21:50 maybe xtest is good enough too Jul 29 21:22:07 of course I don't have it! but i will try to find it then :) Jul 29 21:22:23 (or maybe I do have it and don't know about it, the possibilities...) Jul 29 21:22:23 do newer images have better keyboard after flashing? (query) Jul 29 21:22:54 after flashing = by default in the image. Jul 29 21:23:05 Chox: well ... you can make it more complex by trying to keep existing connections alive via one interface, but start new ones via a newer faster interface Jul 29 21:23:11 I can't setup the net with this SMS keyboard. :( Jul 29 21:23:30 Zorkman: you probably don't have it Jul 29 21:23:33 but you can just copy my binary ;) Jul 29 21:23:35 Rigolo: actually, I make such a product. but it won't fit in FR. Jul 29 21:23:39 Chox: or based on type of connections .... http always via the fastest .. ssh via a stable standard (like gprs) etc Jul 29 21:23:49 ecraven: set the dns in /etc/network/interfaces Jul 29 21:24:01 http://www.mushroomnetworks.com/default.aspx Jul 29 21:24:14 Chox: well ... compress it ... I always hear about better compression :-) .. use it Jul 29 21:24:21 pfft. Jul 29 21:24:27 lossy compression on my email? Jul 29 21:24:48 noo .. your sollution ... compress that .. so it will fit in the FR :-) Jul 29 21:24:58 uh huh. Jul 29 21:25:11 well, it could actually run in FR. Jul 29 21:25:14 but I CBA. Jul 29 21:26:11 Chox: what happens when the connection when one line craps out ... you get drop packages etc ? but keeps on going? Jul 29 21:26:21 packets :o Jul 29 21:26:31 it;s late here ... Jul 29 21:26:31 thanks all, I'll flash a newer image instead. maybe that has a simple network setup tool ;-) cya Jul 29 21:26:33 are there any decent alarm clock recommendations? Jul 29 21:26:41 what happens depeonds upon whether it's one sidded or two, and the connection type. Jul 29 21:26:44 sided Jul 29 21:27:32 looks nice ... I worked for a computer retail shop .. where a dsl migration went wrong .. all shops without internet for 2 weeks Jul 29 21:27:38 aw. Jul 29 21:27:53 I suggested to use both dsl and cable .. and make them each others backup or something ... Jul 29 21:28:02 or aggregate! hoorah! Jul 29 21:28:09 sounds like you have a working sollution for what I proposed Jul 29 21:28:50 (it was rejected ... to expensive to invest in cable ... not a residential connection ... so over 500 EUR to even get basic cable installed in some shops Jul 29 21:29:12 Chox: and all based on linux I assume ;-) Jul 29 21:29:14 you often can't get cable in commerical areas. Jul 29 21:29:34 many of our customers have T1 + DSL, but D1 is slow and expensive Jul 29 21:29:39 T1 Jul 29 21:29:43 well .. retail shops down town ... cables everywhere here in .nl :-) Jul 29 21:30:24 I think we have over 95% coverage with cable here ... same level as copper almost Jul 29 21:30:26 Guilt: I bet atd/crond are installed Jul 29 21:30:31 :) Jul 29 21:31:30 "at" has always been the best alarm clock I could have Jul 29 21:31:42 err, could find Jul 29 21:31:48 moo. Jul 29 21:31:51 * Chox laffs Jul 29 21:31:55 * Rigolo uses the nokia alarmclock most of the time :-) Jul 29 21:32:04 ezekiel-v3: that's not good enough Jul 29 21:32:33 not when i'm going out and i don't have a ssh client Jul 29 21:32:45 we have almost full cable coverage, but are mostly stuck with download volume caps Jul 29 21:32:54 and i'm not typing any shell commands in that termnial Jul 29 21:32:56 ;p Jul 29 21:32:59 ah, the joy of Rogers Jul 29 21:33:09 dammit, why hasn't anyone hacked the Roku NetFlix box yet? Jul 29 21:33:18 Zorkman: well .. not really here in .nl .... Jul 29 21:33:33 I know Rigolo, we belgians are jealous :) Jul 29 21:33:41 llo ecraven Jul 29 21:34:02 Zorkman: you are welcome to live here if you want .... :-) Jul 29 21:34:17 foo, i should *not* use ctrl-alt-delete in emacs under Xorg ;( Jul 29 21:36:01 whee, the right-click-emulation works (at least on my host) Jul 29 21:36:19 hoora! Jul 29 21:36:23 *uy Jul 29 21:36:24 ecraven: how? Jul 29 21:36:32 grr fingers are jumbled and its dark Jul 29 21:36:34 as in .. what do you do to right click? Jul 29 21:36:39 games! Jul 29 21:36:47 tap-and-hold for longer than 1 second Jul 29 21:38:29 hi, is the Freerunner able to show flash animations? (2007.2) Jul 29 21:38:43 heh, no. Jul 29 21:38:44 mplayer can play flash movies, i think Jul 29 21:39:04 leinir! Jul 29 21:39:10 need something reeeeel skinny Jul 29 21:39:17 but watching videos on youtube is impossible? Jul 29 21:39:22 paris hilton? Jul 29 21:39:25 no, just hard. Jul 29 21:39:27 LOL Jul 29 21:39:45 lip3: there are also mpeg (or some other format) feeds of youtube Jul 29 21:39:46 too skinny Jul 29 21:39:56 lip3: not even the iphone has flash at the moment ;-) Jul 29 21:40:01 okay, thanks to all Jul 29 21:40:12 full screen flash, assuming gnash was complete, would be pushing CPU and graphics on FR Jul 29 21:40:17 i wont buy a iphone Rigolo ;) Jul 29 21:40:32 and I will also not donate one to you :-) Jul 29 21:40:43 :) Jul 29 21:40:44 to any one even -) Jul 29 21:40:49 np :D Jul 29 21:41:03 okay, thx for info mates Jul 29 21:41:05 (before I create confusion and people start asking for iPhones) Jul 29 21:41:49 iFlash Jul 29 21:42:09 hm.. even though right click works, the left click still gets through.. Jul 29 21:43:19 ecraven: maybe you can look at how the keyboard of the ASU does it Jul 29 21:43:38 i can't remove events from the device ;( Jul 29 21:43:51 that would have to be implemented in the actual device driver (tslib?) Jul 29 21:43:51 one press selects a letter, keep pressing it and it pops up a little zoomed in immage of the letter and it's surrounding letters so you can choose which one you want Jul 29 21:44:30 its! Jul 29 21:44:31 Zorkman: that's different, because it's an application. i want to change the way clicks are generated Jul 29 21:44:31 sigh! Jul 29 21:44:54 anyway, late, going to bed, see you tomorrow ;) Jul 29 21:45:28 bye Jul 29 21:50:18 * Rigolo is also going to get some zzzzzzz Jul 29 21:54:54 Jul 29 21:56:32 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf4e22aeeeeab 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: Jul 29 21:56:32 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: silence home zone cell broadcasts while in suspend Jul 29 21:56:32 freesmartphone.org: This should (hopefully) be the last reason for spurious wakeups... Jul 29 21:57:39 ok, i just got back from costco with 2 cases of beer and a case of coke... party at my place Jul 29 21:57:42 well good if that's controllable from outside the gsm chip... Jul 29 21:59:10 ieatlint: i've got some good quality whiskey, grappa and wodka and some belgian beer; better hold that party here :) Jul 29 21:59:51 define good quality whiskey? Jul 29 22:00:06 i've got a bottle of glenlivet 18 year scotch Jul 29 22:00:22 ieatlint: yes, but where are you? Jul 29 22:00:22 lagavulin 16y old Jul 29 22:00:34 Chocky: a lot closer to you than belgium Jul 29 22:00:37 san francisco Jul 29 22:00:46 (and a speyside 14y Jul 29 22:00:58 what kinda of belgian beer? Jul 29 22:00:58 could catch a flight and be there this evening ;-) Jul 29 22:01:05 speyside is a region, not a scotch Jul 29 22:01:41 don't know the name by heart, got it a whila ago as a present something with islay in it i think, to lasy to go to the closet :) Jul 29 22:03:06 * Yashy is an admitted scotch and beer snob Jul 29 22:03:36 i am a bit of a beer snob Jul 29 22:04:03 and i like good whiskey and scotch, but i don't have the money to exceed the ~$50 bottle range Jul 29 22:05:30 don't know about the alcohol prices of whiskey in the USA, how much did you pay for the glenlivit? Jul 29 22:05:48 bevmo.cpom Jul 29 22:05:51 bevmo.com Jul 29 22:06:21 so asu....I have no keyboard with which to send text messages Jul 29 22:08:45 seems it costs about the same Jul 29 22:09:10 hi Jul 29 22:09:13 Zorkman: $48 at costco Jul 29 22:09:16 750ml of course Jul 29 22:09:30 anyone running the current asu ? Jul 29 22:11:59 but yeah, bevmo.com is what californians pay for alcohol, with a ~8% sales tax on top Jul 29 22:12:12 +CRV Jul 29 22:12:20 there's no crv on a bottle of whiskey Jul 29 22:12:26 right Jul 29 22:12:38 plus $8 if it has > certain size LCD Jul 29 22:12:52 crv is a bottle deposit though, $0.08/bottle for bottles/cans Jul 29 22:13:09 thought it was only 5c Jul 29 22:13:43 it went up methinks Jul 29 22:13:55 well, that's probably for the best Jul 29 22:14:23 WriteRight screen protectors 5 dollars for 10 an nearly .005 thick Jul 29 22:14:31 nope, you're right 5 cents for under 24oz, 10 cents for over 24oz Jul 29 22:14:42 :o Jul 29 22:14:47 don't forget the LCD Jul 29 22:15:06 FR LCD is too small to have recycling fee Jul 29 22:15:32 just think of all that ipod landfill :o Jul 29 22:15:33 and lcd doesn't have a crv ... that's different Jul 29 22:15:41 it's not a deposit for the lcd fee Jul 29 22:15:42 I know, I was being silly Jul 29 22:16:01 unless your whiskey really does have an LCD Jul 29 22:16:14 i never realised how crazy our taxes were until i visited europe Jul 29 22:16:39 how it says $3.99, but then you add sales tax and then perhaps a bottle deposit, but if it's certain types of food there's no tax and so forth... hehe Jul 29 22:16:43 we have taxes to protect us against other taxes Jul 29 22:16:43 how do I bring up illume's keyboard in the asu? Jul 29 22:16:52 it's the same in the UK Jul 29 22:16:59 well, nearly Jul 29 22:17:14 it's not the price, it's the fact that the tax is added on at the register here Jul 29 22:17:22 VAT is included in the advertised price Jul 29 22:17:23 okay all Jul 29 22:17:25 g'night Jul 29 22:17:25 stuff is mostly labelled what you pay. Most things in the grocery store don't have VAT Jul 29 22:17:55 but there's plenty of tax to be paid Jul 29 22:18:07 for the UK, food doesn't unless it's junk food Jul 29 22:18:42 in belgium it does Jul 29 22:19:02 and things like children's clothes are except Jul 29 22:19:07 excempt Jul 29 22:19:13 there are store for restaurants etc where the prices are reported as without VAT, but in normal shops everything is VAT included Jul 29 22:20:02 simpler when you actually pay the price you see :P Jul 29 22:20:02 if you buy something from an online UK store from outside the EU, you get VAT off the price. Jul 29 22:20:27 yep, the EU does VAT refunds for visitors too Jul 29 22:20:37 but most don't bother :p Jul 29 22:20:56 i have a couple of times... but yeah, it's kinda annoying Jul 29 22:21:20 so, when is someone going to hack Linux on the Roku netflix box? Jul 29 22:21:33 don't tell me I'll have to get one and do it myself. Jul 29 22:21:41 bet it has a serial port on the PCB Jul 29 22:25:01 * Yashy picked up 2 bottles of Macallan 18 and a bottle of Bruichladdich 18 when I was in Edmonton a couple weeks ago :) (cheaper than BC) Jul 29 22:25:50 for beer, I brew it myself (allgrain mash) Jul 29 22:25:57 (usually) Jul 29 22:27:07 is moko using telepathy for gsm voice calling? Jul 29 22:27:26 :) Jul 29 22:27:42 Nope, doesn't have nearly enough hype behind it to be taken into consideration for serious use ;) Jul 29 22:27:56 (in other words: i like it, but it's not used ;) ) Jul 29 22:28:28 still in beta-testing. Jul 29 22:28:38 but not very promising. Seems to be all hype. Jul 29 22:35:57 hey. can someone build this for me: http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/60/openmoko-panel-alarm-0.1.tar.gz Jul 29 22:36:00 ? Jul 29 22:36:02 i require gtkmm/whole lot of things :( Jul 29 22:41:10 Where can I see if there are plans to add libnet to the next version of toolchain? Jul 29 22:41:21 err libdnet Jul 29 22:46:23 no Yashy, sorry; but i did learn how gooses learned to fly... Jul 29 22:47:48 ../libtool: line 6114: arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-ranlib: command not found yet I have it: Jul 29 22:47:55 aw, diddums. Jul 29 22:48:02 karma's a bitch Jul 29 22:48:11 ./home/yashy/moko/build/tmp/cross/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-ranlib Jul 29 22:48:21 ./usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-ranlib Jul 29 22:48:31 do I just add that to $PATH? Jul 29 22:49:04 or tell om-conf about it? Jul 29 22:49:17 (can't find a man page or any docs for om-conf) Jul 29 22:49:42 wb mmaestri Jul 29 22:49:56 thx Zorkman Jul 29 22:52:50 any news? Jul 29 22:53:10 seems like raster fixed the keyboard stuff in asu, you can now choose apparently Jul 29 22:53:23 also someone posted a fix for the problems with opkg upgrade Jul 29 22:53:25 http://pastebin.com/mef828d5 Jul 29 22:54:07 how is asu behaving right now? last time i've tried it was slooow Jul 29 22:54:34 the current asu is looking really good Jul 29 22:54:56 is it faster enough to not complain about it? Jul 29 22:55:15 peter_b: you opkg upgraded it? Jul 29 22:55:39 it is fast enough for me Jul 29 22:55:42 yo Jul 29 22:56:05 and you already rebooted? Jul 29 22:56:12 twice :-) Jul 29 22:56:16 nice Jul 29 22:56:20 keyboard working? Jul 29 22:56:23 exposure working? Jul 29 22:56:39 exposure is fine :-) Jul 29 22:56:49 keyboard only for asu apps Jul 29 22:56:59 but a very nice new one :-) Jul 29 22:57:07 (did you have to fix anything, like removing your .e directory; changing your illume.Edj file...) Jul 29 22:57:29 cant choose the keyboard yet Jul 29 22:57:55 changed the theme but i have to wait till i can restart Jul 29 22:58:04 (doing a backup atm) Jul 29 22:58:27 i did the stuff from the #1678 ticket Jul 29 22:59:13 Howdy ya'll Jul 29 22:59:22 DL. Jul 29 22:59:47 llo Jul 29 23:01:00 peter_b: has a shell now? Jul 29 23:01:00 Behold, for I am the Demolisher of Software! Jul 29 23:01:12 $ i can haz shell? :p Jul 29 23:01:42 Destroyer of worlds, eater of pies Jul 29 23:01:46 :D Jul 29 23:01:52 * DaveLab high-fives Zorkman Jul 29 23:02:08 I have become death. Eater of pie. Jul 29 23:02:17 Cherry? :D Jul 29 23:02:18 thats it :) Jul 29 23:02:57 * Zorkman wishes he could animate like that.... Jul 29 23:03:02 : i dont have a terminal atm Jul 29 23:03:31 No need to... Just watch Billy & Mandy ;) Jul 29 23:03:36 peter_b: openmoko-terminal2 (or something that resembelce ità Jul 29 23:03:53 have to get the keyboeard first Jul 29 23:03:56 yeah but my flash looks like a three-years-old hit some random buttons :) Jul 29 23:04:01 otherwise it would be useless Jul 29 23:04:03 uh oh Jul 29 23:04:25 Leinir ¬_¬ Jul 29 23:04:44 the qtopia image had a nice shell, someone could port that to qtopia-x11... :p Jul 29 23:05:37 hah! Jul 29 23:05:42 yeah, sure, why not! Jul 29 23:05:51 it's already a grabbag anyway :p Jul 29 23:05:54 mix 'n match Jul 29 23:06:01 dave 'n chox Jul 29 23:06:10 everody like a cocktail now and then Jul 29 23:06:22 *likes Jul 29 23:06:32 damn too much spelling mistakes to correct :) Jul 29 23:07:13 mmaestri: There's a really funny error in the qtopia terminal, though, the cursor thinks the font it's using is mono-spaced, and the font is actually variable-spaced... looks kinda funny ;) Jul 29 23:07:14 behold, for i am about to make a stupid question Jul 29 23:07:59 yes, it's not me for once! Jul 29 23:09:07 Anyone know if there are any shiny chassis avaible for freeruner? Jul 29 23:09:13 that look like LG Prada ? Jul 29 23:09:28 mmaestri: ask it quick before you find the answer yourself and then you can't make chox laugh :) Jul 29 23:10:03 Zorkman: ok, i'm finding the right words to make laugh everyone Jul 29 23:10:15 nadio: No cases for it yet :) Jul 29 23:10:23 will the freerunner have a real fast gui at some point? Jul 29 23:10:35 with any of the images? Jul 29 23:10:35 http://pastebin.com/m6999214 if anyone cares to look, having issues with make install (make worked) Jul 29 23:10:46 i find the u-boot quite snappy and responsive Jul 29 23:10:55 Yashy: just look at the random stuff on your wiki. I'm sure it's there. Jul 29 23:13:40 Zorkman: nothing worst for a stupid question than noone trying to answer, even in a sarcastic way Jul 29 23:13:52 i don't answer because i know nothing :) Jul 29 23:14:01 qtopia is quite fast, but that does not run x Jul 29 23:14:12 apathy rules ok! Jul 29 23:14:24 but you did answer :p Jul 29 23:14:37 yeah, it never really stops me :p Jul 29 23:14:49 * Chox against suggests some restraint. Jul 29 23:14:55 i meant with x Jul 29 23:14:58 mmaestri, such that it'll react quickly to basic phone operations? perhaps. More than that is unrealistic, for all the application loading and stuff Jul 29 23:15:15 it will get better but since i'm no developper, i can't say to what extent it probably will improve, you're guess is better than mine probably Jul 29 23:15:26 see. Jul 29 23:16:50 (the former you do with having basic phone apps in memory constantly ready, and optimizing those) Jul 29 23:21:33 looking for make install help (I've added more) http://pastebin.com/m452a4e59 Jul 29 23:29:06 doh figured it out. sudo didn't have the environment Jul 29 23:29:31 Yashy: you can find a nmap ipk on my rep http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/ Jul 29 23:31:39 Marcel_M: you made wifi-radar for freerunner? Jul 29 23:32:11 Zorkman: no i have just copiled Jul 29 23:32:36 compiled* Jul 29 23:33:12 thanks for that Jul 29 23:33:27 you are welcome :) Jul 29 23:35:31 when is the openmoko site suppososet to have more phone ? Jul 29 23:35:43 it says 25th and thats long past Jul 29 23:40:12 Marcel_M: thanks, you probably just saved me hours :) Jul 29 23:40:58 Yashy: np nice to see that the rep is helpful Jul 29 23:41:39 Marcel_M: it is. don't remember what it was i needed, but I have used it also Jul 29 23:41:59 Zorkman: thanks :) Jul 29 23:43:08 Marcel_M: Do you have an opkg.conf? Jul 29 23:43:37 Yashy: http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/celtune-rabenfrost.conf Jul 29 23:44:34 you need to remove the om-gta01 lines if you use it on the fr Jul 29 23:48:45 Marcel_M: http://hackepedia.org/?title=Neo_freerunner#Adding_repositories Jul 29 23:48:57 Build a handy page for everytime I start over, which steps to follow :) Jul 29 23:49:01 Built rather Jul 29 23:49:46 Yashy: nice :) Jul 29 23:51:13 any idea when the next batch of shipment gonn arrive? Jul 29 23:51:25 Yashy: but i think you need the neo1973 line (neod is in there) Jul 29 23:51:35 on the webstore? Jul 29 23:51:54 Marcel_M: The neo1973 for the freerunner? Jul 29 23:52:41 i think the fr uses the neod and its in there Jul 29 23:53:04 (2007.2 uses it i think) Jul 29 23:54:08 http://hackepedia.org/?title=Neo_freerunner#Adding_repositories Jul 29 23:54:11 Is that better/ Jul 29 23:55:14 Yashy: hehe yes thank you ;) Jul 29 23:56:29 Thanks to you! Jul 29 23:57:34 aircrack, kismet, all the fun toys. Jul 29 23:57:50 ?? Jul 29 23:58:05 no noe Jul 29 23:58:06 one Jul 29 23:58:09 :( Jul 29 23:58:33 richiefrich: I missed your question? Jul 29 23:58:47 when is the openmoko site suppososet to have more phone ? it says 25th and thats long past Jul 29 23:59:04 so like next year ? Jul 29 23:59:10 next centry ? Jul 29 23:59:28 or should i just get another open source phone Jul 29 23:59:32 :\ Jul 30 00:00:33 does aircrack work on the freerunner? thought the wifi couldn't handle a required mode... Jul 30 00:03:26 another opensource phone? :) Jul 30 00:03:42 Zorkman: you can use it with an usb-wlan stick Jul 30 00:03:59 Zorkman: it requires monitor mode, I haven't tried it yet, I'll let you know if the NIC supports it Jul 30 00:04:09 ahh I guess it doesn't Jul 30 00:05:10 Yashy: not now :( Jul 30 00:05:25 InterfaceChipsetDriver Jul 30 00:05:25 eth0UNKNOWNsdio_wlan (monitor mode enabled) Jul 30 00:06:20 :( Jul 30 00:06:24 ? so it does work? Jul 30 00:07:57 well it says it does, but according to Marcel, apparently not yet Jul 30 00:08:27 is there any chance it will work (withough usb-wlan stick) ? Jul 30 00:09:04 Yashy: thats what i read maybe it changed (but i think if its supportet we ahould have read it in the ml) Jul 30 00:09:13 it would be great if so Jul 30 00:09:38 Yashy: can youz please try it out Jul 30 00:11:38 tcpdump -i eth0 Jul 30 00:11:47 Didn't give any errors either, which should require monitor mode Jul 30 00:12:23 hmm Jul 30 00:15:51 umm yes, I can packet sniff :) Jul 30 00:17:12 is this the moment we say: YES!? Jul 30 00:18:01 1348 packets received by filter Jul 30 00:18:01 0 packets dropped by kernel Jul 30 00:18:04 Yashy: thats great news!! Jul 30 00:18:08 * Yashy nods Jul 30 00:19:21 * Zorkman shouts YESSsSSS! Jul 30 00:21:07 * Yashy likes the idea of kismet with eth0 and the GPSr :) Jul 30 00:21:18 wardriver in my pocket Jul 30 00:22:59 lol huh did someone say kismet running? Jul 30 00:26:12 is it easy to install or do we have to do some magic? Jul 30 00:26:49 i dont see the bibake files Jul 30 00:28:11 i take that back its in the FSO dev sources Jul 30 00:28:54 openembedded/packages/kismet Jul 30 00:31:58 will it be long before people that can't build it can use it? Jul 30 00:32:19 i'm trying to build it right now Jul 30 00:32:47 i doubt it'll work though Jul 30 00:32:55 tcpdump is one othing Jul 30 00:33:13 kismet needs to be able to set it in monitor mode Jul 30 00:34:54 kd8ikt: Jul 30 00:34:54 InterfaceChipsetDriver Jul 30 00:34:55 eth0UNKNOWNsdio_wlan (monitor mode enabled) Jul 30 00:35:23 howd you do that Jul 30 00:36:53 ask yashy :) Jul 30 00:37:01 or Marcel_M Jul 30 00:38:23 kd8ikt: kismet is here http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/ Jul 30 00:38:59 have you gotten it to work on the freerunner? Jul 30 00:39:27 airmon-ng start eth0 Jul 30 00:39:31 is what I was running Jul 30 00:39:47 I don't have kismet working yet, can't find the conf files :) Jul 30 00:41:01 # kismet_server Jul 30 00:41:02 FATAL: Could not find user 'your_user_here' for dropping priviledges. Make sure you have a valid user set for 'suiduser' in your config file. See the 'Installation & Security' and 'Configuration' sections of the README file for more information. Jul 30 00:41:35 yeah you need to change that Jul 30 00:41:36 Yashy: you obviously need to.. well, do what it says Jul 30 00:41:39 and specify a user in the config file Jul 30 00:42:07 You might wanna install aircrack-ng as well. Jul 30 00:42:32 yeah, I added a user to drop privs, can't find a config file yet, might have to create one Jul 30 00:43:54 vi /etc/kismet.conf Jul 30 00:44:07 doh it was in /etc, not sure how I missed it initially, was looking all over Jul 30 00:46:13 * kd8ikt used source=hostap,eth00,moko Jul 30 00:46:27 and then my conenction dropped ;) so it should be working Jul 30 00:46:31 heh Jul 30 00:46:50 lemmie reboot Jul 30 00:47:05 and the user i named games Jul 30 00:47:16 cause its a valid user in /etc/passwd Jul 30 00:48:57 raster is back from the sweatshop dungeon :) Jul 30 00:49:27 hahahah Jul 30 00:51:05 aw crap now my moko isnt booting Jul 30 00:51:31 * Zorkman is going to reboot and hope that kismet, aircrack-ng and the likes work when he gets back :) Jul 30 00:51:33 which sourced did you list, kd8ikt? Jul 30 00:51:45 Zorkman: no need to reboot? Jul 30 00:51:57 sources Jul 30 00:52:49 hm opkg upgrade seems to have nuked my kernel Jul 30 00:53:08 went into uboot and clicked boot and it said ugh wheres the kernel? Jul 30 00:53:51 who is canadian like me here? and what are the best phone plans? freerunner is my very first cellphone. Jul 30 00:54:02 lol really? Jul 30 00:54:12 sry but that shit is funny Jul 30 00:54:29 rogers? bell? telus? other? Jul 30 00:54:34 xmpp: only like 2 options in Canada Jul 30 00:54:42 Telus is GSM Jul 30 00:54:48 I use Rogers with mine Jul 30 00:55:01 kd8ikt: the kernel problem is known Jul 30 00:55:19 noshit? well it wasnt known to me untill it happened to me Jul 30 00:55:37 kd8ikt: I had that two days ago Jul 30 00:56:09 kd8ikt: use 7/27 kernel :/ Jul 30 00:56:16 it would have been known if you read the list ;) Jul 30 00:56:26 kd8ikt: you can just flash a current kernel Jul 30 00:57:03 Yashy: does rogers have an option for people who bought their phone elsewhere? Jul 30 00:57:16 using source=ath5k,eth0,Madwifi Jul 30 00:57:28 FATAL: Failed to set monitor mode: Invalid argument. This usually means your drivers either do not support monitor mode, or use a different mechanism for getting to it. Make sure you have a version of your drivers that support monitor mode, and consult the troubleshooting section of the README. Jul 30 00:57:30 :( Jul 30 00:57:48 xmpp: Just buy a SIM card, no need to tell them what phone you have. Jul 30 00:58:01 xmpp: put the SIM card in and you're off to the races. Jul 30 00:58:33 xmpp: You can use any telco that'll sell you a SIM card in Canada :) Jul 30 00:58:42 dude how can you say read the list cause right nowi see like 400 unread mails in my box and most are retsarded bs Jul 30 00:59:28 Yashy: no monitor mode on FR Jul 30 01:00:07 dude, you delete the retarded bs and you read the important ones Jul 30 01:00:11 i thought they necessarely sell me a phone anyway even at 0$ with a 3years contract Jul 30 01:01:31 editar: OK. How was tcpdump -i eth0 working? I could see my wifi ssh traffic... Jul 30 01:02:05 `tcpdump -i eth0 not port 22` Jul 30 01:07:33 What I'm asking is that if monitor mode doesn't work, how was I able to see my eth0 traffic? Jul 30 01:08:31 packet sniffing and wifi monitor mode are completely different Jul 30 01:08:34 you can see all traffic from or to the ap u r connected to Jul 30 01:08:43 without beeing in monitor mode Jul 30 01:09:29 bu u cannot see other APs Jul 30 01:12:28 any comments on the bluetooth device/antenna/range? Jul 30 01:12:28 ahh thanks for the clarification Jul 30 01:13:00 so it won't work? Jul 30 01:13:01 noone cares about blueooth :( Jul 30 01:14:15 i've gotten like 20-30 feet via bluetooth Jul 30 01:14:30 less more likely Jul 30 01:15:00 it was never really meant for long range Jul 30 01:15:59 I just did my first bluetooth scan, got about 15 foot range Jul 30 01:16:37 :) Jul 30 01:16:50 less more likely? Jul 30 01:16:57 What a terrible construct :p Jul 30 01:17:08 * Dave pages nuclear_eclipse Jul 30 01:17:16 NET 2.0!!! Jul 30 01:19:41 hehe, trusten Jul 30 01:20:12 Marcel_M: bluesnarfer? :) http://www.securiteam.com/tools/5KP0220F5E.html Jul 30 01:21:13 Yashy: dont know if its working http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/bluesnarfer_0.1-r0_armv4t.ipk Jul 30 01:24:00 snarfer? o_O Jul 30 01:24:03 what the hell is that? :D Jul 30 01:24:35 http://www.thebunker.net/resources/bluetooth Jul 30 01:24:58 leeches the phone book of vulnerable bluetooth devices for example Jul 30 01:26:32 1 in 100000 vulnerable Jul 30 01:26:44 and it'll probably be some old lady anyway Jul 30 01:27:13 on my way out to a busy pub, I'll see if I find 1 in 100000 :) Jul 30 01:30:06 * torindel hates opening moko Jul 30 01:30:39 and yay for not being able to power off with button after kernel paniced Jul 30 01:31:18 oh its just such a hassle to prey the back off and pull the battery for a sec Jul 30 01:31:28 pry^ Jul 30 01:31:52 kd8ikt: problem is the back -__-, it doesnt go off too easly in my moko Jul 30 01:32:11 your not doing it right then Jul 30 01:36:23 viri! Jul 30 01:36:40 cacti Jul 30 01:37:43 whats this underground firmware stuff? Jul 30 01:38:08 any nyc-area devs want to give a talk for NYLUG? Jul 30 01:40:05 are my call logs, sms messages, etc. all found in my /home/root dir? Jul 30 01:40:27 in other words, if i only back that directory up will i be ok? Jul 30 01:43:59 hah Jul 30 01:45:42 Error saving screenshot: Value for PNG text chunk CREATOR cannot be converted to ISO-8859-1 encoding. Jul 30 01:50:35 moo Jul 30 01:52:03 DAve Jul 30 01:52:29 Dave: ln -s libc.so.6 /lib/libc.so Jul 30 01:52:49 and screenshots will work again Jul 30 01:52:56 the wiki proclaims that dfu-util is broken...? Jul 30 01:56:17 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ Jul 30 02:00:35 kd8ikt: whose screenshots are these? are these from the asu image? Jul 30 02:00:59 * kd8ikt doesnt know what your looking at Jul 30 02:01:09 you're! Jul 30 02:01:12 grr. it's not that hard! Jul 30 02:01:16 haha Jul 30 02:01:17 * Chocky grumbles. Jul 30 02:01:25 the link you just sent. i suppose they are random images Jul 30 02:01:45 infact i think ill keep on saying it just to piss you're ass off Jul 30 02:02:16 your in for some hell now you better juse /ignore me Chocky Jul 30 02:02:16 LOL Jul 30 02:05:44 bring it on, bitch. Jul 30 02:06:12 * Chocky will kick your skinny ass any day of the week! Jul 30 02:06:19 and your pony. Jul 30 02:17:06 lol Jul 30 02:17:44 arrrrrrrrrrggggggg Jul 30 02:18:34 lots of losers? Jul 30 02:21:59 anybody got a working alsa.state or pointer to alsamixer-element's names for **recording from mic** ??? Jul 30 02:33:42 jOERG_rw: i have not tested it myself but there are some posts on the ml http://n2.nabble.com/mixer-settings-for-voice-recording--tp639952p639952.html Jul 30 02:34:16 :-) thnx!!! Jul 30 02:35:15 jOERG_rw: alsactl -f /etc/capturehandset.state and arecord -f cd -t wav -d 30 testfile.wav should do it as well Jul 30 02:35:30 + restore ;) Jul 30 02:35:52 capturehandset sounds quite reasonable. exactly what i need! Jul 30 02:35:58 :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 30 02:59:56 2008