**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 09 02:59:56 2008 Aug 09 03:00:00 * mmaestri feels alone, in the dark Aug 09 03:00:09 mmaestri, i have quirks here and there Aug 09 03:00:16 but they usually sort themselves out Aug 09 03:00:21 rool thanks Aug 09 03:00:59 rooly|away: yes, i guess so...but not having usb network is kind a pain in the arse to me Aug 09 03:01:27 dbmoodb: I don't see anything re:wifi in qtopia Aug 09 03:01:30 does anyone know where i could find an ipk of lint-wifi? the link on the wiki is broken. Aug 09 03:01:43 mmaestri: what's the issue with usb networking? Aug 09 03:02:19 * rooly|away wonders what drug all the psychodelic icons came from Aug 09 03:02:36 lol Aug 09 03:02:45 balrog-kun: some kernels fail at loading the modules, i guess Aug 09 03:03:19 did everyone see my "3d on the FR" videos? Aug 09 03:03:32 no Aug 09 03:03:36 link? Aug 09 03:03:39 1 sec Aug 09 03:04:02 http://rooly.g0dsoft.com/blog4.php/2008/08/02/the-openmoko-freerunner Aug 09 03:04:06 3d what? Aug 09 03:05:19 ok, i've just found out that my image is broken again... Aug 09 03:06:34 * mmaestri wonders why, oh why it has to happen to me. again. Aug 09 03:07:11 * threede2 wonders what a broken image is Aug 09 03:07:23 * rooly|away decided to turn off animations Aug 09 03:07:27 runs much better now Aug 09 03:09:07 ok Aug 09 03:09:23 Anybody using SHR or FSO? Aug 09 03:09:32 i was Aug 09 03:09:38 fso Aug 09 03:09:38 SHR? Aug 09 03:09:49 gargoyle_grin: i was, until it exploded a few minutes ago Aug 09 03:09:56 fso Aug 09 03:10:02 FreeSmartPhone.org or Stable Hybrid Release. Aug 09 03:10:10 What did you think of it mmaestri? Aug 09 03:10:16 And, which one were you using? Aug 09 03:10:50 gargoyle_grin: i like fso Aug 09 03:11:16 but it only makes sense if you can build your own image Aug 09 03:11:19 is fso another distro? Aug 09 03:11:24 how do u input a # when u call somewhere and an answering system ask fot a # input in fso? Aug 09 03:11:28 upgrade only break things Aug 09 03:11:44 Yeah. I think I may switch to FSO. 2008.08 didn't work well for me at all. Aug 09 03:12:00 me neither but im a noob Aug 09 03:12:07 rooly|away: neat Aug 09 03:12:15 and you cannot trust repositories, because packages break other without warning Aug 09 03:12:24 linuxxr, there's a patch that will soon be out from what i hear Aug 09 03:12:28 right now, you can't Aug 09 03:12:32 cool Aug 09 03:12:47 i knew to wait but i couldnt:) Aug 09 03:12:48 Staticwave_Ace: try sshing and iwconfig ? Aug 09 03:13:04 I'm even considering starting my own distro using Gentoo. Aug 09 03:13:13 crossdev, etc... Aug 09 03:13:25 dbmoodb: well I'm sure that works, but whats the point? Aug 09 03:13:30 what is crossdev Aug 09 03:13:49 now we need about 2 more hardware mfg Aug 09 03:13:54 Staticwave_Ace: so it has wireless... -- it has a terminal no ? Aug 09 03:13:58 what about a browser these days ? Aug 09 03:13:59 crossdev is a system gentoo setup to ease in the creation of a cross-compiling toolchain Aug 09 03:14:11 then things will start cracking Aug 09 03:14:11 mickey|dinner: ping me when you get back Aug 09 03:14:11 dbmoodb: terminal yes, browser, not that I could find Aug 09 03:14:12 it also allows you to use gentoo's package system to compile programs for the toolchain Aug 09 03:14:15 I'm not sure whether it's a Gentoo-specific utility, or a general GNU/Linux utility, but it's for cross-compilation. Aug 09 03:14:20 XorA|gone: You there? :[ Aug 09 03:14:24 Ah. Yeah. Thanks, ieatlint. Aug 09 03:14:31 gargoyle_grin, have you used crossdev at all? Aug 09 03:14:34 ieatlnt i here ya Aug 09 03:14:39 threede2: use a toolchain to compile code to the fr from a x86 buildhost, e.g. Aug 09 03:14:44 080808 qtopia coming up Aug 09 03:14:44 hear even Aug 09 03:14:57 Staticwave_Ace: still better than nothing Aug 09 03:14:58 Not really. This would be a very good way to get familiar with it. Aug 09 03:15:14 * ieatlint makes an evil laugh Aug 09 03:15:18 enjoy it, gargoyle_grin :) Aug 09 03:15:44 Heh. I know quite a few people who have been using Gentoo for one thing or another for a lot longer than I have. Aug 09 03:15:52 you'll soon find that many packages are poorly setup with automake (not due to gentoo, mind you) Aug 09 03:16:06 Ah. I see. Aug 09 03:16:12 errors that'll make you want to bang your head on your desk Aug 09 03:16:13 Hrumph... Aug 09 03:16:25 eg .. "can't run test program when cross compiling, exiting" Aug 09 03:16:30 Oh. Like 2008.08, you mean? ;) Aug 09 03:16:39 "can't cross compile hits head exit" Aug 09 03:16:46 "bitbake== fail exit" Aug 09 03:16:49 what is 2008.08 Aug 09 03:16:59 hey, i warned you about 2008.8 Aug 09 03:17:06 told you it wasn't some messiah Aug 09 03:17:26 Yup indeed. :P Aug 09 03:17:42 Eh. If nothing else, I can switch back to 2007.2 Aug 09 03:17:52 you can ? Aug 09 03:18:00 What's your distro of choice, ieatlint? Aug 09 03:18:01 has a help system Aug 09 03:18:06 Um... I don't see why not... Aug 09 03:18:19 i just got a message an it beeped Aug 09 03:18:20 teh opkg might beh teh brekons Aug 09 03:18:21 running fso Aug 09 03:18:24 hiya all! does anybody know where the SSH keys are stored in OM2007 and in the ASU2008.8? I need to copy the key over for ease of ssh-ing (rather than forever disable checking if it changed) Aug 09 03:19:08 3 games Aug 09 03:19:09 /etc/dropbear/ ? Aug 09 03:19:51 very cool Aug 09 03:20:17 dbmoodb: thanks! it looks like that's right, at least for OM2007. I'm off to copy it around! Aug 09 03:20:39 u guys are going to have to get busy if u gonna keey up with qtopia Aug 09 03:20:59 the phone works to Aug 09 03:21:14 asu works as a phone Aug 09 03:21:22 has for quite a while Aug 09 03:21:24 speeddial Aug 09 03:21:35 so does fso and 2007.2 Aug 09 03:21:38 why is there so much talk of qtopia Aug 09 03:22:00 2008.2 uses qtopia? Aug 09 03:22:04 sorry Aug 09 03:22:29 2008.2 uses qtopia apps with qt ported to x11 (rather poorly) Aug 09 03:22:46 ok Aug 09 03:23:27 its not that qtopia was ported to x poorly, its that OM uses a different wm and launcher Aug 09 03:23:43 qtopia was not designed to be seperated from its self Aug 09 03:23:57 ??? Aug 09 03:24:10 i read a post by raster that qt does a lot of things that are huge performance no-no's in x but are fine on a generic frame buffer Aug 09 03:24:22 i figure he knows something about getting x to perform :) Aug 09 03:24:22 yes, well. he is actually wrong on that Aug 09 03:26:36 also, i didn't say qtopia was ported to x, qt was ported to x Aug 09 03:26:49 qt already runs in x Aug 09 03:26:58 it was qtopia that was "ported" Aug 09 03:27:21 hrm, either way, performance is not what it could be Aug 09 03:27:58 important thing to keep in mind is: it's all slower than etk ;) Aug 09 03:28:48 well, qtopia dopes heaps more than etk Aug 09 03:29:24 it better, it's a whole mobile phone suite and etk is a graphical tool kit Aug 09 03:29:31 what is the difference between qt and qtopia Aug 09 03:29:37 I have qtopia flashed on my FR and would like to setup 2008.8 on SD card so can optionally boot from SD can someone point me to how to prepare fresh SD for this ? Aug 09 03:29:45 qt is the toolkit Aug 09 03:29:53 oh Aug 09 03:29:56 k Aug 09 03:30:23 where can I find mdbus ? Aug 09 03:30:30 qtopia must be the 9 yards library Aug 09 03:30:31 qtopia works on X Aug 09 03:31:24 9 yards library? Aug 09 03:31:27 X on a mobile phone? wow Aug 09 03:31:33 yeah.. :-/ Aug 09 03:31:45 look static wave is speecless Aug 09 03:31:51 hipitihop_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD Aug 09 03:32:07 threede2: not as bad as it sounds, if you do it right, also, using x allows apps for most any tk to be used Aug 09 03:32:33 except loosing common look and feel Aug 09 03:32:44 tk? Aug 09 03:32:50 toolkit Aug 09 03:32:50 you have that problem any time you have more than one tk Aug 09 03:32:55 k Aug 09 03:33:02 nullpuppy, gthanks, strange the wiki search did not find it. BTW, is this considered dual boot ? Aug 09 03:33:10 unless to spend boat loads of time themeing Aug 09 03:33:26 AntonTakk: not necessarily. Nokia is doing well with multitookits on maemo Aug 09 03:33:31 hipitihop_: yeah, basically Aug 09 03:33:42 hipitihop_: and no prob, the wiki search is pretty pathetic ;) Aug 09 03:33:56 lpotter: and I bet they have spent good ammounts of time on themes Aug 09 03:34:13 no, they just use qt-gtk Aug 09 03:34:18 or whatever its called Aug 09 03:34:25 yeah, you can do that Aug 09 03:34:43 i dont know the difference between x and a graphics driver Aug 09 03:34:44 which takes themeing out of the question Aug 09 03:34:55 threede2: x uses gfx drivers Aug 09 03:34:57 maemo is themed Aug 09 03:35:06 anyone know where I can get nano and mdbus ? Aug 09 03:35:07 nullpuppy, is running from SD an additional performance problem or just slower when booting ? Aug 09 03:35:17 lpotter: i never implied it wasn't Aug 09 03:35:17 gfx? Aug 09 03:35:50 gfx - graphics Aug 09 03:36:00 k Aug 09 03:36:02 'net slang :) Aug 09 03:36:21 :) Aug 09 03:36:26 hipitihop_: i hear its a little slower, but it's not too bad Aug 09 03:36:45 nullpuppy, k, thanks Aug 09 03:36:58 further more, qtopia didn't do anything for me that 2007.2, or asu won't Aug 09 03:37:11 * hipitihop_ goes off the prep his SD card to boot 2008.8 Aug 09 03:39:10 hiphop good luckity Aug 09 03:40:35 threede2, is that because I'm going to need it ? Aug 09 03:40:37 i think i fixed my sd card Aug 09 03:41:17 no luck required, just do it Aug 09 03:41:21 using fdisk to cut up what it thinks is the full disk screws it up but when i clip a few sectors from front/back of disk (leave empty) its been working now Aug 09 03:46:06 partitioning is a nightmare ... who invented that Aug 09 03:46:51 god help us Aug 09 03:47:13 threede2: ? Aug 09 03:48:01 dbmoodb - a sentence would be nice Aug 09 03:48:29 threede2: .... well you should be able to do it Aug 09 03:50:06 is anyone running SHR? just wondering Aug 09 03:50:33 is it out ? Aug 09 03:50:56 didn't think shr had a release yet Aug 09 03:51:19 o idk, from the little bit i read i thought so, i prolly misunderstood Aug 09 03:51:29 is that basically the way forward though? Aug 09 03:52:37 what is stable hybrid release Aug 09 03:53:06 community effort to port 2007.2 apps to fso guts Aug 09 03:54:06 AntonTakk: voip ? Aug 09 03:55:28 FSO? Aug 09 03:55:37 dunno, haven't really followed it much Aug 09 03:55:45 fso = free smartphone.org Aug 09 03:55:46 i'm still trying to get a fscking voip client Aug 09 03:55:55 nothing builds Aug 09 03:56:07 Anton: thanks Aug 09 03:56:18 is also the future om platform as i understand it Aug 09 03:56:45 i have not visited freesmartphone.org Aug 09 03:56:52 what am i missing Aug 09 03:56:56 it's a wiki Aug 09 03:57:22 the fso image, however is impressive (at least the stuff that is implemented and working properly) Aug 09 03:57:27 <--- used to work for Symbian Aug 09 03:58:25 i'm going to troll with my NO FSCKING voip client rant now. done Aug 09 03:58:36 * rooly|away snickers: make one Aug 09 03:58:43 LOL @ dbmoodb Aug 09 03:59:06 they didn't compile -- the ones from the 2007.2 thingy using mokomakefile Aug 09 03:59:13 linphone nope... minisip nope Aug 09 03:59:25 make one ? how about get one to compile damn it Aug 09 04:00:28 was using fso as my daily phone, some annoyances, but nothing unexpected Aug 09 04:00:41 * threede2 visits freesmartphone.org Aug 09 04:01:02 dbmoodb: try this http://sourceforge.net/projects/miax Aug 09 04:01:59 related to freedesktop.org Aug 09 04:02:03 hmmm Aug 09 04:02:27 CVirus: ah.... maybe does it work ? Aug 09 04:02:41 no clue Aug 09 04:03:10 threede2: interesting stuff is at trac.freesmartphone.org Aug 09 04:03:11 * dbmoodb ? grea Aug 09 04:03:12 t Aug 09 04:03:42 CVirus: i still think its pathetic Aug 09 04:03:58 stop whinning Aug 09 04:04:01 and go write your own Aug 09 04:04:11 CVirus: i'm trying to port some good working ones Aug 09 04:04:20 fine .. I'll use those then :-p Aug 09 04:04:29 ah ? Aug 09 04:04:29 dbmoodb: what are you porting ? Aug 09 04:04:39 * russellb hops you're not using SIP though :-p Aug 09 04:04:44 s/hops/hopes/ Aug 09 04:04:46 * russellb hops, too Aug 09 04:04:49 ..........................................................i want sip Aug 09 04:04:58 real men use IAX :-p Aug 09 04:05:00 hehe Aug 09 04:05:02 there already is an asterisk port that works Aug 09 04:05:03 hops Aug 09 04:05:16 dbmoodb: asterisk works on OM ? Aug 09 04:05:18 but sip with stun support would be a lotter better for what i need Aug 09 04:05:20 yah dude Aug 09 04:05:27 there is no iax client tho Aug 09 04:05:30 yet! Aug 09 04:05:37 no, real men use a magnet and a coil to generate the pulses needed to represent the packets ;) Aug 09 04:05:38 I think miax would work easily ! Aug 09 04:05:39 i'm working on that with a couple other folks, though Aug 09 04:05:58 russellb: good :) Aug 09 04:05:59 (iax client that is) Aug 09 04:06:10 russellb: asterisk has stun support yah ? Aug 09 04:06:15 it does, yes Aug 09 04:06:23 asterisk 1.6 does, anyway ... Aug 09 04:06:36 dududdudu crash Aug 09 04:06:46 weird Aug 09 04:07:22 using asterisk as the voice engine for a mobile voip client feels like overkill, though Aug 09 04:07:32 possible, but overkill. Aug 09 04:07:53 russellb: hence sip client ? (asterisk is good if you need all that it provides) Aug 09 04:08:14 no, hence an iax client :) Aug 09 04:08:31 iax? Aug 09 04:08:31 a SIP client is fine, too ... but SIP in unpredictable networks is a PITA Aug 09 04:08:48 threede2: Inter-Asterisk-eXchange ... another VoIP protocol Aug 09 04:08:51 well not many voip providers i know of provide iax Aug 09 04:08:57 oh Aug 09 04:08:58 * russellb nods Aug 09 04:09:03 there are a good number that do, though Aug 09 04:09:08 that's te issue Aug 09 04:09:11 the* Aug 09 04:09:12 thanks russ Aug 09 04:09:24 I think a SIP client would be good to have, too Aug 09 04:09:29 I'd like to have both SIP and IAX available Aug 09 04:09:42 russellb: i agree Aug 09 04:09:58 I just like to troll on SIP ... Aug 09 04:10:14 but yeah, stun support would be an absolute must for a mobile SIP client Aug 09 04:10:15 ah> Aug 09 04:10:35 yah Aug 09 04:10:52 russellb: pjsip almost works actually Aug 09 04:11:02 haven't used it. Aug 09 04:11:03 but cool Aug 09 04:11:19 i just have to recompile / edit something which i didn't follow where it was... Aug 09 04:11:55 arg. why can i not connect to 2008.8 via usb Aug 09 04:11:57 does it come with a simple command line test app? Aug 09 04:11:57 so, is 2008.08 still to be avoided? Aug 09 04:11:58 * nullpuppy sighs Aug 09 04:12:05 dbmoodb: ^^ Aug 09 04:12:38 russellb: ah ... well yes Aug 09 04:13:02 you have to edit it so it works with pulseaudio or something or other .. doesn't see the sound device for unknown reasons Aug 09 04:13:17 http://www.pjsip.org/download.htm Aug 09 04:13:27 well ... if it doesn't support pulse at all, adding pulse support is not trivial Aug 09 04:13:34 unless it's just something you have to enable in the build .. Aug 09 04:13:53 if it built with alsa support, you should try killing pulseaudio while you test Aug 09 04:13:56 russellb: ah i think its simple i missed it tho Aug 09 04:14:03 i did kill pulse audio Aug 09 04:14:07 hrm Aug 09 04:14:13 google i guess ? Aug 09 04:14:23 like it works perfectly bar the sound rofl Aug 09 04:15:34 heh, who needs audio for a phone call anyway Aug 09 04:16:00 ya, just use sms Aug 09 04:16:07 the phone app is sooooo yesterday Aug 09 04:16:51 russellb: well i tried using a audio file to autoanswer and it didn't work Aug 09 04:17:02 dbmoodb: a grep of the entire source tree for "pulseaudio" showed nothing ... are you sure it supports it? Aug 09 04:17:31 You might want to also consider sofiasip as the library to use ... Aug 09 04:17:36 russellb: i have no idea Aug 09 04:17:47 but we could just turn off pulse no ? Aug 09 04:17:57 well, yeah, you should be able to Aug 09 04:19:46 fekin hell is the mailing list busy Aug 09 04:19:49 so what is your plan with that, thinking about writing an interface for it once you have the test app working? Aug 09 04:19:52 this is one exciting project :) Aug 09 04:20:19 holy: what is? Aug 09 04:20:32 moko of course! Aug 09 04:20:33 what project? Aug 09 04:20:35 heh Aug 09 04:21:24 oh yeah - that one Aug 09 04:21:30 hehe ;) Aug 09 04:22:12 interface for something that work on the command line ? what's that ? Aug 09 04:22:47 heh, well ... ok :) Aug 09 04:24:42 like, after getting an iax client working from the command line, I was going to start working on a dialer app for it, and long term, hopefully have it integrated into a single dialer Aug 09 04:24:55 so that the same dialer could be for GSM, IAX, or SIP, (or whatever) Aug 09 04:26:32 I like your thinking. I hope it goes smoothly. Aug 09 04:27:00 it works well in my head :-p Aug 09 04:27:41 spending most of tomorrow on it with a friend from work, so should have some good progress ... Aug 09 04:27:55 russellb: russellb sip ? rofl Aug 09 04:28:07 * russellb sets the floor on fire Aug 09 04:28:38 I don't recall what SIP stands for, but it's a VOIP protocol. Aug 09 04:28:46 Ekiga uses SIP. Aug 09 04:28:51 Session Initiation Protocol Aug 09 04:29:03 Cool. Thanks. Aug 09 04:29:28 it's not actually limited to VoIP, but that is certainly its most common application Aug 09 04:29:52 Yeah. True. Aug 09 04:30:13 it's also complicated as all hell ... and just as vague at the same time Aug 09 04:30:56 yay for designing a protocol without the reality of the Internet in mind Aug 09 04:31:24 *cough*ipoac*cough* ;) Aug 09 04:31:43 heh Aug 09 04:32:15 session schmeshion Aug 09 04:32:32 stateless phone calls, that's where it's at Aug 09 04:33:10 russellb: yah stateless Aug 09 04:33:44 what is a stateless call Aug 09 04:34:00 and what is a stateful call Aug 09 04:34:08 i'm making stuff up. Aug 09 04:34:15 oooooooo Aug 09 04:35:26 stateless internet, thats where its at Aug 09 04:36:34 SIP is so easy, just look at this diagram -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SIP_signaling.png Aug 09 04:37:00 when will we have telephone/whatever names instead of fscking numbers, thats what i wanna know Aug 09 04:37:19 threede2: well, that's a loaded question ... Aug 09 04:37:29 a huge reason is look at 99.9999% of phones out there Aug 09 04:37:35 what kind of dialing interface do they have? Aug 09 04:37:51 certainly not something friendly to text dialing ... Aug 09 04:38:16 then there is just the whole what people have been used to for a realllllllllly long time ... Aug 09 04:38:27 a nice alternative is freenum.org Aug 09 04:38:41 it's a nice alternate numeric dialing system Aug 09 04:38:48 barf Aug 09 04:39:20 anyway, I still think it's coming Aug 09 04:39:25 just _way_ slower than what some people though Aug 09 04:39:27 thought* Aug 09 04:39:51 goood Aug 09 04:39:58 then i might call someone Aug 09 04:40:01 heh Aug 09 04:40:20 I like working on phone technology, but usually hate it when my phone rings Aug 09 04:40:30 theres a project Aug 09 04:41:00 and worth a few bucks Aug 09 04:42:07 i think personal privacy may have prevented such a system Aug 09 04:42:23 Dear AT-command knowers: I am connected to my modem and I can make phone calls, but when I try to call myself, i get a busy sign. Do i have to do anything to tell the modem that it can accept calls? Aug 09 04:42:44 it would be cool to dail "MADONNA" for a chat Aug 09 04:43:06 (maybe not) Aug 09 04:44:06 of course you can always set up your own telephony server to map whatever numbers numeric and text to whatever you want :) Aug 09 04:44:26 i have a co-worked that set up his home phone system so he can dial "pizza" and "chinese", heh Aug 09 04:44:52 good co-worker Aug 09 04:44:56 smart Aug 09 04:48:07 SIMS - are they really needed? Aug 09 04:48:33 * russellb blinks Aug 09 04:48:39 do you need a SIM card? Aug 09 04:49:03 no Aug 09 04:49:28 but they are kinda needed Aug 09 04:49:44 i think its a biling thing Aug 09 04:52:59 if a phonee were know at the time of a call, the SIM would be irrelevent Aug 09 04:53:33 the SIM could be anywhere Aug 09 04:53:53 software in fact Aug 09 04:55:04 can someone send me the om-conf, setup-env and environment-setup scripts? Aug 09 04:55:49 what do they do? Aug 09 04:55:56 only them. i don't want to download the whole toolchain file Aug 09 04:56:02 they set appropriate variables Aug 09 04:56:11 ok Aug 09 04:56:38 for what? Aug 09 04:56:45 for toolchain Aug 09 04:56:55 compiling stuff Aug 09 04:56:57 Guilt: OK Aug 09 04:57:26 are you making an app? Aug 09 04:58:36 want to compile one. yeah Aug 09 04:59:01 ive set up openembedded Aug 09 04:59:11 just need to get one app up Aug 09 04:59:39 what is openembedded Aug 09 05:01:18 threede2: wiki/Toolchain Aug 09 05:02:05 ok - i am not familier with this Aug 09 05:03:29 Is this related to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Aug 09 05:06:36 any tours (visual or otherwise) of the recent 2008.8 release? Aug 09 05:08:08 threede2: yea Aug 09 05:08:17 niklauz: not worth it Aug 09 05:08:34 Is http://www.openembedded.org/ dead Aug 09 05:08:44 cant see it Aug 09 05:10:25 * niklauz is reading this (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2008.8) now Aug 09 05:11:52 me too Aug 09 05:11:53 the screens are very sick indeed Aug 09 05:11:55 ~openembedded Aug 09 05:11:56 somebody said openembedded was a flexible build tool based on Gentoo's package manager (portage), and a large upstream package repository and build classes. It facilitates building embedded Linux distributions and packages for any arbitrary target platform. http://www.openembedded.org Aug 09 05:12:19 threede2: the easiest way to set it up is by makemokofile Aug 09 05:12:23 ~openembedded Aug 09 05:12:24 extra, extra, read all about it, openembedded is a flexible build tool based on Gentoo's package manager (portage), and a large upstream package repository and build classes. It facilitates building embedded Linux distributions and packages for any arbitrary target platform. http://www.openembedded.org Aug 09 05:12:29 s/very sick/very slick Aug 09 05:12:46 ~chox Aug 09 05:12:47 extra, extra, read all about it, chox is best put on ignore, otherwise he'll just annoy you. Aug 09 05:12:57 heh Aug 09 05:12:59 ~chox Aug 09 05:12:59 extra, extra, read all about it, chox is best put on ignore, otherwise he'll just annoy you. Aug 09 05:13:20 threede2: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1096544 Aug 09 05:13:30 download that script, chmod +x it, run it Aug 09 05:14:12 is a real security model planned at this point, is it on the roadmap? Aug 09 05:17:56 Guilt: are you assuming I have a Moko phone? I dont by the way, sadly Aug 09 05:18:53 threede2: if u want to develop apps for any arm phone Aug 09 05:19:02 and u can do it on ur PC if u want to :-) Aug 09 05:19:09 that's it Aug 09 05:19:51 in fact Aug 09 05:19:54 just develop for x86 Aug 09 05:20:01 until u have an actual target piece of hw Aug 09 05:20:12 just make sure the app fits well within 480x640 Aug 09 05:20:24 and try not to use asm Aug 09 05:20:25 handles its window being resized down to make way for a virtual keyboard etc. Aug 09 05:20:44 if you want to request a keyboard on screen there's a protocl - not really documented but code is open to know how it works Aug 09 05:20:52 i need to get ne of these phones Aug 09 05:20:53 and just remember the screen is tiny Aug 09 05:20:56 and fingers are big Aug 09 05:21:01 its not fast either Aug 09 05:21:03 *one* Aug 09 05:21:13 and as far as mouse goes you have left mouse butotn only Aug 09 05:21:22 and the mouse only moves when the button is pressed Aug 09 05:21:33 other than that - making apps is the same as anywhere Aug 09 05:21:34 :) Aug 09 05:21:45 * rooly|away compiles on his phone Aug 09 05:21:50 screw cross-compiling Aug 09 05:22:28 cross compiling is soooooo 70's Aug 09 05:22:37 yeah, isn't it!? Aug 09 05:22:43 cross-compiling is much faster Aug 09 05:22:49 your mom is faster Aug 09 05:22:56 my mom is also faster Aug 09 05:23:05 but not as fast as you Aug 09 05:23:15 or so she tells me. Aug 09 05:23:18 threede2: if u want to do asm, make sure u have a portable C equivalent. Aug 09 05:23:20 you finihs up way too fast Aug 09 05:23:21 speed aint the issue if you write it then compile it Aug 09 05:23:21 :) Aug 09 05:23:25 or armv4t asm ;) Aug 09 05:23:26 hehehe Aug 09 05:24:02 if u do c Aug 09 05:24:03 compiling sucks. perl rules Aug 09 05:24:03 or c++ Aug 09 05:24:08 or bash Aug 09 05:24:09 do NOT do unaligned memory accesses Aug 09 05:24:20 python is okay too. Aug 09 05:24:20 interpreted languages suck Aug 09 05:24:22 slooooow Aug 09 05:24:25 SCHLOOOW Aug 09 05:24:27 raster: efficient Aug 09 05:24:31 your mom is slow Aug 09 05:24:32 lets not go there Aug 09 05:24:34 and not really slow. Aug 09 05:24:35 ;) Aug 09 05:24:48 * raster giggles Aug 09 05:24:50 very slow Aug 09 05:24:54 it's not like everyone is making realtime apps with their mokos Aug 09 05:24:55 VERY Aug 09 05:25:03 u know, the kinds that control nuclear reactors Aug 09 05:25:03 ... Aug 09 05:25:05 ;p Aug 09 05:25:06 * rooly|away kinda did Aug 09 05:25:17 most people who quote "realtime" dont even know what it means :) Aug 09 05:25:35 raster: although the phone is quite realtime Aug 09 05:25:35 it is nothing to do with fast or slow Aug 09 05:25:42 like getting a call up and running, Aug 09 05:25:50 it has to do with guaranteed completion times Aug 09 05:26:01 ie call syscall X - it WILL complete and retunr within X ms Aug 09 05:26:03 always Aug 09 05:26:04 guiaranteed Aug 09 05:26:08 raster: why fast when it can just run with a decent speed? Aug 09 05:26:13 what is the next killer app? Aug 09 05:26:41 if everybody wanted speed, they'd do things like unroll/pipeline their code, profile it, asm-ize it. Aug 09 05:26:43 Guilt: and lets have the other 20 processes runing do the same Aug 09 05:26:53 that's not the kind people want to do with this phone Aug 09 05:26:55 so in the end we use up 50%+ of our cpu "interpreting" Aug 09 05:26:58 instead of doing Aug 09 05:27:01 raster: why 20procs? Aug 09 05:27:07 ;p i'm able to do ONE thing well. Aug 09 05:27:08 have u run ps lately? Aug 09 05:27:21 :) Aug 09 05:27:33 grr. we're talking of apps, not processes like kswapd Aug 09 05:27:36 or what not ;) Aug 09 05:27:51 kswapd is not a process Aug 09 05:27:52 rater's right, on a mobile device one cannot afford to piss away CPU cycles. Aug 09 05:27:55 its a kernel thread Aug 09 05:27:56 :) Aug 09 05:28:06 raster: a kernel thread is a process? Aug 09 05:28:07 unlike your5 desktop or laptop Aug 09 05:28:10 and a process is code? Aug 09 05:28:12 u dont have ghz of cycles to burn Aug 09 05:28:20 lol. Aug 09 05:28:26 trust me Aug 09 05:28:30 i have 2 fr's Aug 09 05:28:33 look at the boot times anyway. i've got 400 mhz to burn Aug 09 05:28:38 i have a myriad of other embedded evic es Aug 09 05:28:40 i have one. Aug 09 05:28:42 u dont have cycles to burn Aug 09 05:28:53 we do. 400*1000000 cycles Aug 09 05:29:06 who has an OM phone? Aug 09 05:29:14 you can burn them on yours al lu like Aug 09 05:29:14 It's not just the slowness, it's the battery life too. Aug 09 05:29:15 i have Aug 09 05:29:26 i sure as hell am going to keep mine focused on doing more useful stuff per cycle Aug 09 05:29:29 i'm not running a supercomputer. and i know that how i use it works well for me. Aug 09 05:29:32 * threede2 bows to Guilt Aug 09 05:29:44 when did u get it Aug 09 05:29:45 raster: well, qpe spins eating 100% CPU all the time when I run 2008.8. Is that a "real-time" problem? Aug 09 05:29:53 It seems to be like a really-dumb-application problem. Aug 09 05:29:56 ;) you can run whatever u want however u want. the key is a good compromise between execution speed and development time. Aug 09 05:30:07 threede2: july Aug 09 05:30:07 cjb: dont look at me. i divest myself of anythnig to do with qpe Aug 09 05:30:25 What does qpe do, anyway? Aug 09 05:30:29 Guilt: it's faster and easier for me to develop in c Aug 09 05:30:35 Guilt: r u a software eng? Aug 09 05:30:37 as unlike python or perl. it doesnt get in my way Aug 09 05:30:40 heh. C++ is way faster than C Aug 09 05:30:40 slow me down Aug 09 05:30:43 raster: me too :) Aug 09 05:30:45 threede2: kinda' sorta Aug 09 05:30:48 and limit me from doing what i already know how to Aug 09 05:30:49 hence running FSO instead of 2008.8 Aug 09 05:31:09 Guilt: I'll take that as a yeah, kinda, sorta Aug 09 05:31:30 raster: not in terms of execution Aug 09 05:31:33 code writing Aug 09 05:31:41 cu in terms of code writing. Aug 09 05:31:43 they get in my way Aug 09 05:31:52 like, to write a hashmap in C, Aug 09 05:32:02 it takes a bit of time. C++ has it and it works. Aug 09 05:32:08 stl is so awesome. Aug 09 05:32:11 :-) Aug 09 05:32:17 why does everyone think that u have to write all yoru datastructs from scratch in c? Aug 09 05:32:23 theres perfectly good libs for doing that for u Aug 09 05:32:34 raster: but not part of the 'C standard' Aug 09 05:32:41 glib for starters Aug 09 05:32:44 so? Aug 09 05:32:50 thats what is gerat about c Aug 09 05:32:58 is NOT c standard. STL, on the other hand, is standard C++ Aug 09 05:33:02 it doesnt try and suck every god damn thing on the planet into its vortex Aug 09 05:33:06 the only good things about the c standard are qsort and bsearch Aug 09 05:33:22 raster: it actually does Aug 09 05:33:26 it goes "pick and choose whatever libraries u like - dont like that? write your own or just inline the coede. in the end its all a q of dev time" Aug 09 05:33:29 stdio is bloated Aug 09 05:33:32 :-) Aug 09 05:33:49 it's all waste of dev time, u mean Aug 09 05:33:52 raster sounds like a coder Aug 09 05:33:58 compared to perl/pythons "baseD" set of libs Aug 09 05:34:00 i doubt it Aug 09 05:34:05 raster sounds like a troll ;) Aug 09 05:34:11 if u are a newb at programming Aug 09 05:34:12 (i sound like another troll) Aug 09 05:34:16 and pointers and compilers scare you Aug 09 05:34:19 go use python Aug 09 05:34:20 or perl Aug 09 05:34:21 or ruby Aug 09 05:34:23 or whatever Aug 09 05:34:27 lua? Aug 09 05:34:30 if u know what u are doing Aug 09 05:34:32 i use asm and pointeres a bit, Aug 09 05:34:36 u are free to use what works for u Aug 09 05:34:42 and for me C gets the hell out of my way Aug 09 05:34:43 but thanks, i know the exact tools to do the job for me Aug 09 05:34:45 and lets me do work Aug 09 05:34:58 if i want to walk my memory with pointers - i will. Aug 09 05:35:00 raster likes work Aug 09 05:35:02 * rooly|away hasn't included iostream in months Aug 09 05:35:08 heh :-D Aug 09 05:35:29 * rooly|away hasn't used the std namespace in longer Aug 09 05:35:36 i have never found myself to develop apps faster in perl or python - the little python i have tyouched, than i do in c Aug 09 05:35:41 in fact i tend to develop them faster in c Aug 09 05:35:46 i havent touched iostream in 9 years Aug 09 05:35:53 i developed your mom faster in c Aug 09 05:35:58 okay, that one didn't quite work Aug 09 05:36:10 :-) gone are the days we had a iostream.h ;) and STL was probably like CLASSLIB or so :-D Aug 09 05:36:20 c gets out of my way and lets me bit-bang or byte-swizzle or use s high an api layer as i like Aug 09 05:36:23 or want to build myself Aug 09 05:36:26 or link to in another lib Aug 09 05:36:44 i developed your mom faster in python Aug 09 05:36:46 ;) Aug 09 05:36:53 heh. that sounded right Aug 09 05:37:08 raster: are u afraid of the dark? ;) Aug 09 05:37:08 i developed your mom faster with my python Aug 09 05:37:20 whats with the "mom" REFERENCE Aug 09 05:37:22 nup Aug 09 05:37:22 my python is HUGE Aug 09 05:37:25 i quite like the dark Aug 09 05:37:26 :) Aug 09 05:37:26 ;) Aug 09 05:37:39 python is nice.. but is kinda slow and not very good with dealing with low level stuff.. its nice as a quick and dirty system to slap something together. Aug 09 05:37:54 Biovore: something like bitbake ;) Aug 09 05:38:07 I guess you can build a bunch of C stuff and include them as python modules.. Aug 09 05:38:28 yeah.. bitbake has its +'s and its -'s Aug 09 05:38:29 if u'd really want performance, u'd only rewrite some stuff in C, I guess Aug 09 05:38:39 Biovore: if u've ever touched cython.. u will realise the utter hell that creates... Aug 09 05:38:40 that gives u an advantage over just plain C. Aug 09 05:38:41 :( Aug 09 05:38:56 well running stuff on the moko and you want it to respond, it basicly has to be C Aug 09 05:39:09 the UI now is god awfully slow.. Aug 09 05:39:23 thats partly to do with the soc and ram Aug 09 05:39:30 and partly the gfx chip (glamo) Aug 09 05:39:42 128 MB ram and 400 MHz Arm.. should be faster.. Aug 09 05:39:43 and partly to do with the way its drawing and trying to make room for flexibility Aug 09 05:40:12 basically any cpu time used talking to video ram locks up the cpu until video ram responds Aug 09 05:40:14 yeah.. the flexibility bit is nice.. but it means we end up doing things the long way around.. Aug 09 05:40:19 so if up have to upload 7mb of data Aug 09 05:40:24 that will take 1 second to do Aug 09 05:40:28 and 1 second of cpu time is lost Aug 09 05:40:36 just to copying that data to video ram Aug 09 05:40:37 true Aug 09 05:40:57 anyone know what the reason was to use that glamo thing anyway? Aug 09 05:41:05 the fun bit is both sd card IO .. .ANd graphics talk to/from glamo (gfx chip) video ram Aug 09 05:41:06 the soc has a LCD driver built in.. Aug 09 05:41:15 so they b oth compete for io "bandwidth" Aug 09 05:41:21 yup Aug 09 05:41:26 and any io happeneing will lock up the cpu in waitstates Aug 09 05:41:26 what %age of tiny apps need to be written in a non-interpretted language Aug 09 05:41:36 2 Aug 09 05:41:39 if we did more on the glamo - it's help Aug 09 05:41:40 ? Aug 09 05:41:43 but the glamo is very limited Aug 09 05:41:48 sure it has a risc cpu of its own Aug 09 05:41:55 its i think a 50mhz openrisc core Aug 09 05:41:58 its quite slow Aug 09 05:42:11 a lot slower than the arm - and that is PER CYCLE Aug 09 05:42:16 i think its only a 16bit cpu Aug 09 05:42:16 well, the internals on glamo are under NDA antway.. Aug 09 05:42:20 and its not programmable Aug 09 05:42:25 no docs on how to do that from smedia Aug 09 05:42:31 the glamo can blit and fill and do ops Aug 09 05:42:37 those are already accelerated in xglamo Aug 09 05:42:39 it can do some more Aug 09 05:42:44 like some scaling and alpha blending Aug 09 05:42:55 yuv->rgb and scaling is accelerated and supported in xglamo with xvideo Aug 09 05:43:03 so we get some rendering advatages with it over in built in framebuffer LCD device then.. Aug 09 05:43:13 bgut anything more than blit/fill/xvideo is probably well into the land of "diminishing returns" Aug 09 05:43:18 when it comes to glamo driver work Aug 09 05:43:23 the glamo is an EOL'd chip Aug 09 05:43:29 it wont be in GTA03 Aug 09 05:43:37 EOL -- End of Life? Aug 09 05:43:48 so effort into doing everyhting in xglamo that the glam can do will not be seen beyond the freerunner Aug 09 05:43:50 yup Aug 09 05:43:52 end of life Aug 09 05:43:58 there is no glamo successor chip in the works Aug 09 05:44:06 erm, is there anything to take over it's position? Aug 09 05:44:14 you know, like a real 2d/3d accellerator Aug 09 05:44:16 yes.. possibly.. Aug 09 05:44:21 raster what is your point Aug 09 05:44:27 so just in terms of manpower spent - it's not the wisest thing to sink masses of manpower into writing drivers for it Aug 09 05:44:28 it has drivers Aug 09 05:44:30 there is a opencores thing that does some basic opengl Aug 09 05:44:35 they do the most common operations Aug 09 05:44:51 (fill, blit, xvideo) Aug 09 05:44:58 frankly look at MOSt x drivers Aug 09 05:45:03 MOSt JUSt accelerate these Aug 09 05:45:09 on MOSt desktop chips Aug 09 05:45:25 why do you keep forgetting to caps-lock the T Aug 09 05:45:29 xglamo is fairly good in the scheme of accelerated xservers Aug 09 05:45:48 rooly|away: i tend to hit/release keys a little soon - race conditions with my fingers :) Aug 09 05:46:08 threede2: my point is - you're not goign to get gfx better on the freerunner than it is Aug 09 05:46:10 does a "that's what she said" work there? Aug 09 05:46:25 raster: k Aug 09 05:46:26 someoen with an nda can sit and write more extensive drivers Aug 09 05:46:31 and get very little in the way of gains Aug 09 05:46:35 eg - accelerate xrender Aug 09 05:46:43 u'll only accelerate a subset of xrender Aug 09 05:46:45 not all of it Aug 09 05:46:56 and that subset wont be the most common subset Aug 09 05:46:59 nvidia looks like the have a openGL device ment for handheld devices.. Aug 09 05:47:01 so u'll still be forced to fall back to software Aug 09 05:47:05 openGL ES Aug 09 05:47:13 * rooly|away would fork out the money for an nvidia chip Aug 09 05:47:17 opengles libs/driver coudl be written Aug 09 05:47:20 Biovore: no open drivers thou Aug 09 05:47:21 but that is a lot of work Aug 09 05:47:28 and u're limited to qvga pretty much Aug 09 05:47:40 No one is going to have open drivers for openGL ES for a while.. 10 years + Aug 09 05:47:40 the chip has limited texture abilities (256x256 max) Aug 09 05:47:45 and other limits Aug 09 05:47:47 mother FUCKER Aug 09 05:47:53 and again - drivers for an EOL'd chip Aug 09 05:47:56 :( Aug 09 05:48:00 sorry Aug 09 05:48:00 o_O Aug 09 05:48:03 Biovore: so go for full blown opengl ;) Aug 09 05:48:08 tv keeps cutting out in the middle of psych Aug 09 05:48:41 i mean, the fr is basically as powerfull as an old 400 mhz desktop Aug 09 05:48:43 ARGH!!!! Aug 09 05:48:54 and 400 mhz runs quake 2 just fine ;) Aug 09 05:48:57 the big problem with glamo is the slow vidoe mem bus/access Aug 09 05:48:58 really Aug 09 05:48:59 it is 4x as powerful as my old computer in 2000 Aug 09 05:49:08 if that could improve - it'd be much better Aug 09 05:49:22 these days most embedded cpu's (soc's) now have graphcis built in Aug 09 05:49:22 and that ran warcraft 2 Aug 09 05:49:26 rooly types pretty good for an afk Aug 09 05:49:27 it's iehter dumb framebuffer Aug 09 05:49:29 100mhz runs quake1 just fine Aug 09 05:49:30 :-D Aug 09 05:49:32 i'm not afk Aug 09 05:49:34 i'm away Aug 09 05:49:36 or a little better (2d blits/fill and some better ops) Aug 09 05:49:37 as in away from home Aug 09 05:49:38 maybe i should try dosbox Aug 09 05:49:41 1200 miles away from home Aug 09 05:49:41 or its a full 3d subsystem Aug 09 05:49:48 like imagination powervr Aug 09 05:49:57 the problem is - anything advanced is closed. Aug 09 05:50:01 :( Aug 09 05:50:10 .... are you lonesome tonight ...... Aug 09 05:50:17 have a room mate Aug 09 05:50:20 he's asleep Aug 09 05:50:21 rooly|away: u cant guage it by mhz Aug 09 05:50:29 can i guage it by ram? Aug 09 05:50:31 ro haven't u read on the mhz myth? read up Aug 09 05:50:32 24 megs Aug 09 05:50:34 there is much more to it Aug 09 05:50:42 nup Aug 09 05:50:46 how bout bus speed? 40mhz Aug 09 05:50:49 how much ram doesnt affect speed Aug 09 05:50:51 really Aug 09 05:50:59 (it does in windows 95) Aug 09 05:51:08 rooly|away: system performance depends on LOTS of things Aug 09 05:51:12 i know Aug 09 05:51:22 and this phone is 4x as powerful as my old computer in 2000 Aug 09 05:51:30 the 400mhz freerunner is about the speed of a pentium-233 or 300 Aug 09 05:51:33 give or take Aug 09 05:51:49 so the Iphone has a 400 Mhz Samsung Arm proc, and uses the PowerVR MBX 3D graphics co-processor.. Aug 09 05:51:51 hell, write speeds are even faster Aug 09 05:52:03 Biovore: actually 600mhz i think Aug 09 05:52:04 :) Aug 09 05:52:08 no, the iphone has a 633 underclocked to 420 or so Aug 09 05:52:17 ro the flash and sd card read rates are about 2mb/sec Aug 09 05:52:28 when did i become ro Aug 09 05:52:37 rooly|away: in 2000 i know my p300mmx laptop was doing 10mb/sec off its hdd Aug 09 05:52:44 rooly|away: tab completion :) Aug 09 05:52:53 right... Aug 09 05:53:05 there's 2 ro's to complete too :) Aug 09 05:53:06 my old machine had a 1.5gb hdd, seriously fragged to hell Aug 09 05:53:14 i just didnt typ the extra o :) Aug 09 05:53:33 full of...well...guy stuff Aug 09 05:53:50 ...about 200 pictures and a movie Aug 09 05:54:01 ... Aug 09 05:55:01 * rooly|away officially hates whoever is using the ip "226.84.48.126" Aug 09 05:55:14 monty python sound effects as notificatrions :) Aug 09 05:55:18 ip? Aug 09 05:55:23 i'm considering using tor to dos it Aug 09 05:55:45 yeah we have tor but no voip client -- se troll from earlier Aug 09 05:55:50 you can't use tor to dos dude Aug 09 05:55:50 haha Aug 09 05:56:03 are there market predictions for the OM phone? Aug 09 05:56:26 like - who whats one Aug 09 05:56:33 th no idea Aug 09 05:56:35 :) Aug 09 05:56:38 threede2: no idea Aug 09 05:56:44 whois ? Aug 09 05:56:50 just geeks? Aug 09 05:56:51 dbmoodb, what about running a dozen or more vm's, torrifying each one, and pinging the shit out of an address Aug 09 05:57:23 rooly|away: that's a lot of work just to act like a moron :) Aug 09 05:57:44 nah, just image DSL a few times Aug 09 05:58:24 hell, i could probably put it into a single shell command in about an hour's worth of work Aug 09 05:58:32 but having software you want would be noo Aug 09 05:59:08 (which is geekfree thinking) Aug 09 06:03:09 welp, night all Aug 09 06:03:15 nn Aug 09 06:03:17 rooly|away: dont' going to work dude Aug 09 06:03:27 nn anton Aug 09 06:03:46 tor is not designed for this Aug 09 06:03:56 i know, i know Aug 09 06:04:02 tor Aug 09 06:04:04 rooly|away: just ping flood rofl Aug 09 06:04:05 ? Aug 09 06:04:11 ~tor Aug 09 06:04:11 it has been said that tor is a network of virtual tunnels that allows people and groups to improve their privacy and security on the Internet. See tor.eff.org Aug 09 06:04:39 ping -f hostname Aug 09 06:04:55 though chances are you'll just dos yourself Aug 09 06:05:05 of course Aug 09 06:05:09 so send it thru tor! Aug 09 06:05:11 heheh Aug 09 06:05:49 its just easier to call you dumb Aug 09 06:05:56 hping them then Aug 09 06:06:04 i know Aug 09 06:06:08 * rooly|away sniggers Aug 09 06:09:22 i wish i could think of something tor-worthy Aug 09 06:09:44 child pr0n? Aug 09 06:09:45 bittorrent Aug 09 06:09:55 * rooly|away runs all his torrents thru tor Aug 09 06:10:17 i used to run an exit and sniff the traffic Aug 09 06:10:18 i limit my connection speed, of course Aug 09 06:10:29 i encrypt anything i can Aug 09 06:12:08 ok - i get the idea Aug 09 06:12:41 still - if i even what child porn, i'd just have kids Aug 09 06:12:47 *ever* Aug 09 06:13:06 * rooly|away makes a note to never send his kinds near threede2 Aug 09 06:13:50 uhm... Aug 09 06:14:46 so i wanted to propose and idea and get some feedback Aug 09 06:15:06 shoot nik Aug 09 06:15:27 dont shoot me tho Aug 09 06:15:48 for a keyboard a potentially new&improved entry system-- predictive handwriting, is this done already? Aug 09 06:16:29 sortof in qtopia Aug 09 06:16:38 handwriting? somewhere. predictive? on the 0808 keyboard sorta Aug 09 06:16:48 so you start with a full OSD keybd but as you move the finger/stylus through various strokes the most likely choices get larger and the less likely get smaller and dimmer Aug 09 06:17:31 this might be a convenient and natrual way to combine freeform figures and text entry Aug 09 06:17:36 keyboard/handwriting???? cotradiction Aug 09 06:17:46 contradiction Aug 09 06:17:54 contraception? Aug 09 06:17:58 you can imagine the letters or words moving around and swirling and stuff Aug 09 06:18:00 has anyone been able to scroll in the installer? Aug 09 06:18:00 kinda Aug 09 06:18:02 in the background i mean Aug 09 06:18:05 or almost anywhere Aug 09 06:18:09 I always end up clicking Aug 09 06:18:31 threede2: contradiction? Aug 09 06:18:33 i have Aug 09 06:18:48 yep Aug 09 06:19:04 goodwill, you could always up your scroll sensitivity Aug 09 06:19:42 rooly|away: how? Aug 09 06:20:04 using the qtopia/2008.08 image? Aug 09 06:20:19 (of course you are, you have an installer) Aug 09 06:20:29 this would be an touchscreen input method that could be an alternate layer on top of an OSD, such that with a click you could select letters and with a sustained motion it would start to do predictive text entry on a letter than word basis, like the Dasher app Aug 09 06:20:45 pull down the menu, and vigorously hit that little wrench/key symbol until an app launches Aug 09 06:21:07 OSD? Aug 09 06:21:14 on-screen-display Aug 09 06:21:23 rooly|away: there is no wrench in the pulldown Aug 09 06:21:29 like an on screen keyboard Aug 09 06:21:37 odd Aug 09 06:21:42 nik: forget it Aug 09 06:21:48 you sure, goodwill? Aug 09 06:21:52 lol, y? Aug 09 06:22:07 rooly|away: there is a setting icon in the launcher, but no wrench anywhere Aug 09 06:22:19 nik: its an idea that precedes a need Aug 09 06:22:24 rooly|away: I have ssh if you know the name of the wrench app Aug 09 06:22:48 i'm not saying i can build it, but as an idea it could be instructive i think Aug 09 06:23:08 it could be shit too Aug 09 06:23:13 i don't Aug 09 06:23:15 it could be said that the entire OM project fits that description as well though Aug 09 06:23:17 just shut off my phone Aug 09 06:23:19 no offence Aug 09 06:23:33 rooly|away: I've seen the wrench in fso but not in 2008.8 Aug 09 06:25:05 threede2: i still think it's an interesting, if not good idea, it's a mix between OSK and handwriting, both of which aren't fully suited for the form factor of the OM devices Aug 09 06:25:18 OSK? Aug 09 06:25:26 on screen keyboard Aug 09 06:26:23 interesting non-good ideas are not my bag Aug 09 06:26:32 threede2: pls tell me why you think it is not a good idea Aug 09 06:26:50 it's a great idea, but it'll never fly Aug 09 06:26:55 cause nobody needs it Aug 09 06:27:04 necessity is the mother of invention Aug 09 06:27:22 b/c you stated a fairly strong position and said it's interesting, but simultaneously non-good :) Aug 09 06:27:27 because it seems (to me, I might be wrong) it is not yet needed Aug 09 06:27:28 innovation is the bastard step-child that takes over the inheritance Aug 09 06:27:39 anyone know how to get to setting for touch sensitivity in in 2008.8 Aug 09 06:27:43 rooly|away: i..huh? Aug 09 06:27:56 just use /clear Aug 09 06:28:02 and may never be Aug 09 06:28:54 it's a thoguht experiment, i was just wondering if i should refine it then put it somewhere in the wiki under whatever 'brainstorming' graveyard they have :) Aug 09 06:29:26 all ideas are good Aug 09 06:29:34 except that one... Aug 09 06:29:36 kidding Aug 09 06:29:43 bitch Aug 09 06:29:56 * niklauz types: killall criticism Aug 09 06:30:04 * rooly|away dodges like neo Aug 09 06:30:25 malik1972, you've got to criticize niklauz at least once Aug 09 06:30:31 just say "it'll never work" Aug 09 06:30:45 i'll make sure to tag it 'good but bad, crap, yet interesting' when i post it, lol Aug 09 06:31:10 it will work Aug 09 06:31:23 you're just being difficult tonight Aug 09 06:31:24 ha, i'm not sure i agree Aug 09 06:31:26 handwriting is a natural process Aug 09 06:31:42 threede2: you couldn't be more wrong Aug 09 06:31:53 oooo go on Aug 09 06:32:42 ||.| Aug 09 06:32:42 \ Aug 09 06:32:46 dang Aug 09 06:33:05 haha yr kidding right? ppl aren't born w/ writing skills, it may be a fundemental skill, but it isnt a natrual ability Aug 09 06:33:06 hey asu seems to have made a bigger jump Aug 09 06:33:28 go on Aug 09 06:34:05 * rooly|away doesn't write. he uses a series of pictographs to represent meaning Aug 09 06:34:10 it's not even necessarily intuitive or discoverable, extensive training to make something understood, manipulable, and non-challenging doesn't not equal natural Aug 09 06:34:36 yeah - you lost me there Aug 09 06:35:10 meh, typing is much less intuitive than writing Aug 09 06:35:23 hmmm Aug 09 06:35:43 there is something called illume-config which I think provides the wrench icon and such Aug 09 06:36:14 all writing is is the application of an organized pictograph system. the untrained mind still understands how to represent meaning via shapes and images Aug 09 06:36:17 it may be unimportant in general, but i think when talking about UI and interaction it's important to use terms clearly and consistently Aug 09 06:36:25 therefore, writing is natural Aug 09 06:36:31 * niklauz is starting to feel like a troll Aug 09 06:38:00 nik: not knockng your idea, but it needs a bleeding good reason Aug 09 06:38:01 rooly|away: i don't know how u use the term 'natural', mebe just as the opposite of difficult? Aug 09 06:38:46 natural, i mean as being intuitively part of the psyche in some fashion. in this context at least Aug 09 06:39:15 threede2: yr probably right, though i was thinking it has efficiency bonuses on OM-sized touchscreens Aug 09 06:39:19 what is the blleding good reason Aug 09 06:39:32 *bleeding* Aug 09 06:39:39 ok, sleep time Aug 09 06:39:43 gotta be up at 5 am Aug 09 06:39:46 nn Aug 09 06:39:48 rooly|away: o ok, so you really think writing is natural like that? Aug 09 06:39:52 nn babe Aug 09 06:39:53 d'oh! Aug 09 06:39:59 i'll answer that Aug 09 06:40:00 nn Aug 09 06:40:02 ook Aug 09 06:40:09 if writing isn't natural, how did cave men do it? Aug 09 06:40:16 and with that, i say aduie Aug 09 06:40:20 they didn't, they painted Aug 09 06:40:29 pictographs in an organized fashion Aug 09 06:40:31 aka Aug 09 06:40:32 writing Aug 09 06:40:38 hahah Aug 09 06:40:38 writing IS painting Aug 09 06:40:47 WHAT?!?! Aug 09 06:40:56 threede2, you see my point now, finish this discussion Aug 09 06:41:09 ... Aug 09 06:41:32 rool: I will finish in my own time thanks Aug 09 06:41:46 threede2: you are disobeying a direct order Aug 09 06:41:53 grr Aug 09 06:42:22 k Aug 09 06:42:28 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Aug 09 06:42:57 hey all, I just reflashed to 20080808 and now my wifi says unknown ? any ideas ? Aug 09 06:43:07 this was working with 20080806_update Aug 09 06:43:31 matholio: what's the expected behavior? Aug 09 06:43:53 I would expect to see 'off'/'on' Aug 09 06:44:03 I'm in setting/wifi Aug 09 06:44:14 ahhh... Aug 09 06:44:16 and no usb, and no terminal. Aug 09 06:44:49 matholio: have you rebooted? Aug 09 06:45:10 dont these people have support contracts? Aug 09 06:45:21 actually it's been rebooted, several times, sometimes gracefully, other times battery was pulled. Aug 09 06:45:31 (not being funny) Aug 09 06:45:48 ugh...undestood...you may wish to choose a different image... Aug 09 06:46:32 far out, and dialer does not register. Aug 09 06:46:57 one step forward, two steps back. Aug 09 06:47:22 nice black desktop though. Aug 09 06:47:50 matholio: were you expecting a consumer device? Aug 09 06:48:17 no, not at all. why ? Aug 09 06:48:21 matholio: try a reboot Aug 09 06:48:42 * matholio reboots Aug 09 06:49:06 i had the same issue, reboots solved some of them Aug 09 06:49:28 http://n2.nabble.com/Re%3A-Om-2008.8-doesn%27t-ask-for-my-pin-so-no-gsm-available-td681743.html#a681743 Aug 09 06:49:32 manage my expectations please, I flashed kernel and rootfs from the links on the 2008.08 wiki page, should I expect phone, wifi and usb to work ? Aug 09 06:50:00 matholio: sorry...i misdirected my comment Aug 09 06:50:03 usb should work Aug 09 06:50:09 works fine for me Aug 09 06:50:12 can ssh in just fine Aug 09 06:50:27 matholio: i am an enduser as you are, but i know the issues before it was worse they have done a good work Aug 09 06:51:00 not everything new works Aug 09 06:51:10 at least the wiki says: this is our plan, this are the known issues, thats great Aug 09 06:51:49 3D's 1st Law Aug 09 06:51:59 I just don't see why there so much variance between devices. it's counter-intuitive. Aug 09 06:52:00 so everyone should know where the problems are, before i was lost Aug 09 06:52:06 matholio: did you check the md5sums of your files? Aug 09 06:52:42 no. I guess I could rule.... Aug 09 06:54:47 matholio: yep...that way if you need to ask for support, you can at least say you did that ;) Aug 09 06:55:49 md5 sig are not in the download folder. how can I compare ? Aug 09 06:58:05 can someone paste the md5 sigs for theirs ? Aug 09 06:58:28 9d11744284f180b28423d6bfcd46bff2 Om2008.8.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 09 06:58:40 f5a0e045ec9a2f0f08513fffc14b362e Om2008.8.uImage.bin Aug 09 06:58:50 hang on... Aug 09 06:59:20 * matholio boots, fingers crossed Aug 09 06:59:23 9d11744284f180b28423d6bfcd46bff2 Om2008.8.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 09 06:59:47 f5a0e045ec9a2f0f08513fffc14b362e Om2008.8.uImage.bin Aug 09 06:59:54 same Aug 09 07:00:01 >:o Aug 09 07:00:12 ruled out. Aug 09 07:00:15 yep Aug 09 07:00:43 hmm, uboot version shouldnt be a factor? Aug 09 07:00:49 (thanks) Aug 09 07:01:33 wifi - unknown Aug 09 07:01:34 matholio: actually...i didn't think it would, but from what i've read on the lists, it's a possibility Aug 09 07:01:52 Profile - unknown Aug 09 07:02:22 no usb. Aug 09 07:02:26 life should be easier Aug 09 07:02:46 only other thing to try is flash different image, then reflash 8.8 Aug 09 07:03:31 I'll go back to ASU 2008.08.06 + update. Aug 09 07:03:54 all this wears down the love for the project. Aug 09 07:03:57 yep...i did that...not too bad Aug 09 07:04:20 constant hope/fail/wait cycle. Aug 09 07:04:32 heehhe...maybe turn away for a month or two? Aug 09 07:05:19 I think that may be the case for many. I love the project but it's not realistic to expect improvements daily. even weekly. Aug 09 07:05:47 I'm setting myself up for disappointment. Aug 09 07:05:57 no it's not....and yes...we all are Aug 09 07:06:15 * matholio steals himself for yet another dfu session Aug 09 07:06:52 hi Aug 09 07:07:07 I flashed 2008.8, to see what is it about Aug 09 07:07:26 actually, i'd argue that improvements are beyond what most of you see Aug 09 07:07:39 and I guess I failed my IQ test, but... is there something like backspace on the on screen keyboard? Aug 09 07:07:50 ieatlint: i'd not disagree with you Aug 09 07:07:52 sure, but git logs just don;t excite me. Aug 09 07:07:58 i.e. when entering the pin Aug 09 07:07:59 enough. Aug 09 07:08:07 hehe Aug 09 07:08:08 DFU? Aug 09 07:08:15 i never even bother reading the logs really Aug 09 07:08:28 if you just lurk in the dev channel, you pick up a lot :P Aug 09 07:08:51 like thanks to lurking, i know a dtmf patch is about to come out for zhone Aug 09 07:08:57 cozub: you should have options for 3 different types of keyboard...including terminal with a backspace key Aug 09 07:08:58 and that ussd is near, as well Aug 09 07:09:04 dev channel ? Aug 09 07:09:12 look in the topic Aug 09 07:09:17 .... #openmoko-cdevel Aug 09 07:09:22 ieatlint: how about zhone for 8.8? Aug 09 07:09:36 SHR may not be too far off Aug 09 07:09:41 the fso framework is moving quickly Aug 09 07:09:51 undrwate1: well, I just booted the image, in the way it was set up; I'll investigate Aug 09 07:10:06 but I guess I was just missing something - there must be a way to erase mistyped key Aug 09 07:10:16 cozub: look to the top right of the keyboard...there's an icon there..tap it Aug 09 07:10:30 and the framework rocks, I was poking about with python/dbus earlier. Aug 09 07:10:39 yep Aug 09 07:10:44 it has gprs working! Aug 09 07:10:47 undrwate1: thx, I'll try Aug 09 07:11:16 I don;t want to reflash everything, can someone point me to the lastes uboot, I may as well try that. Aug 09 07:11:37 you try the latest kernel as well? Aug 09 07:11:56 thought I did. 0808 Aug 09 07:13:10 i actually don't know what your problem is Aug 09 07:13:26 but downgrading can also fix things on occasion Aug 09 07:14:54 can someone help me fix my network, i changed the settings on the phone at work and i need to get it back to the default for home Aug 09 07:15:10 so is 2008 more usable than 2007 atm? 0.o Aug 09 07:15:11 can someone send me thair /etc/network/interfaces? Aug 09 07:15:54 i would, but i don't believe in helping others... sounds a bit too communistic to me Aug 09 07:16:04 anyone knows how to do backspace? Aug 09 07:16:27 goodwill: try dragging the stylus/finger over the keyboard from right to left Aug 09 07:16:27 right stroke over text Aug 09 07:16:31 left, sorry Aug 09 07:17:08 can;t find uboot, or old ASU images. Aug 09 07:17:34 dns53: http://tehinterweb.com/interfaces Aug 09 07:17:49 ah, found it. Aug 09 07:18:34 thanks Aug 09 07:18:54 np, comrade Aug 09 07:19:10 ieatlint: thanks Aug 09 07:19:17 hmm, I would have preffered an icon Aug 09 07:19:28 * goodwill waits for fso to compile Aug 09 07:19:39 you compiling the git? Aug 09 07:19:45 8-) Aug 09 07:20:01 ieatlint: yeah... Aug 09 07:20:16 goodwill: mind if i privmsg you? Aug 09 07:20:17 though I must say 2008.8 is an improvement Aug 09 07:20:23 ieatlint: no Aug 09 07:20:28 ieatlint: go ahead Aug 09 07:23:18 undrwate1: something is wrong here... I see just "Enter" :-/ Aug 09 07:23:29 and I probably just killed my sim Aug 09 07:25:11 cozub: i think you're better off than i am...i don't seem to have a keyboard at all ;) Aug 09 07:25:30 sigh... Aug 09 07:27:48 cozub: No pin-dialog appears after boot, so no gsm is working in 2008.8 Aug 09 07:27:58 well, it does appear for me Aug 09 07:28:12 is the first flash with om2008? Aug 09 07:28:19 well, maybe after (few) reboots Aug 09 07:28:22 but I flashed Aug 09 07:28:32 Om2008.8.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 09 07:28:37 I guess the yest. "release" Aug 09 07:29:44 the sim work just with the first boot with me Aug 09 07:35:37 openmoko: 03tick * r4593 10/developers/tick/Test_env_script_GTA02A5/ (5 files): Clean up some out of date scripts Aug 09 07:37:00 openmoko: 03tick * r4594 10/developers/tick/Test_env_script_GTA02A5/ (gta02.conf resolv.conf): clean up out of date configure files Aug 09 07:37:44 yay i have networking working again Aug 09 07:38:01 cozub: i'm getting the keyboard..and it's not the same i remember... Aug 09 07:38:08 looking into it Aug 09 07:42:25 where is the backspace on the asu default keyboard Aug 09 07:42:41 is anyone porting an irc or im program to the phones? Aug 09 07:43:24 dns52: pidgin is working within debian Aug 09 07:44:06 i'll have to play with debian, i need an image with an on screen kb when you login Aug 09 07:44:08 dns53: irssi works pretty well Aug 09 07:44:12 hm, usb net doesn't work for me with 2008.8, so I guess I'm ***ed Aug 09 07:44:46 is there a terminal installed by default in 2008.8? I don't see it anywhere, but maybe Aug 09 07:45:31 cozub: keyboard: do a downward slash on the left side Aug 09 07:45:52 upward slash in the middle gives caps Aug 09 07:46:14 well, I found out how to switch between numbers/lower-/upper-caps and symbols Aug 09 07:46:23 but still I don't see anything like backspace there Aug 09 07:46:24 ah! ;) Aug 09 07:46:59 backspace....left slash Aug 09 07:47:04 aha Aug 09 07:47:20 this terminal s... it does not work within applications like terminal2, midori ... Aug 09 07:47:22 kinda cool actually Aug 09 07:48:03 undrwate1: thX, works Aug 09 07:48:11 np Aug 09 07:48:30 yet... when typing text it somehow offers me a list of en words, which is more than bad when you're not typing english text Aug 09 07:48:34 any idea how to switch that off? Aug 09 07:49:22 (like in Messages/New message) Aug 09 07:49:37 hold the letter that you want longer than a 1/2 second Aug 09 07:51:06 thX :) Aug 09 07:51:17 I seem to have failed the IQ test today :)) Aug 09 07:51:44 no...it's not intuitive Aug 09 07:51:46 still it's not exactly how I'd like it to behave, but it's usable this way Aug 09 07:52:01 i've told lpotter Aug 09 07:52:04 does usb networking work for you? Aug 09 07:52:11 yes Aug 09 07:52:16 for me also Aug 09 07:52:33 once again: where i find the backspace? Aug 09 07:52:36 had a problem with an earlier kernel Aug 09 07:52:37 what's the default addr. set in neo? 192.168.0.202? Aug 09 07:52:43 malik1972: left slash Aug 09 07:52:48 cozub: yes Aug 09 07:53:39 okay, the problem is that minimo does not accept the input method at all Aug 09 07:53:51 does it work for you Aug 09 07:53:58 within which applications Aug 09 07:54:02 * undrwate1 doesn't have minimo installed yet Aug 09 07:54:25 have you tried with a pre-installed app? Aug 09 07:54:26 terminalprogram Aug 09 07:55:36 :-) Aug 09 07:55:37 i don't have terminal either Aug 09 07:56:00 whats the point, a bubble pops up and then i have to click it? Aug 09 07:56:06 doesnt work for me Aug 09 07:56:09 ieatlint: http://pastebin.com/d41ad67b Aug 09 07:56:20 looky what i found Aug 09 07:56:24 btw. I'd vote for terminal being included by default in the image... what's a phone good for when it has no terminal? ;) Aug 09 07:56:51 and modified for inverted use aswell Aug 09 07:56:53 http://markmail.org/message/4ifezykwm46breeg Aug 09 07:57:05 i tried messages Aug 09 07:57:18 works for me in messages Aug 09 07:57:31 i klick a letter Aug 09 07:57:41 bubble pops up Aug 09 07:57:45 i klick it Aug 09 07:57:54 and it should give me the letter? Aug 09 07:57:59 maybe somebody should write a page about the 2008.8 on screen keyboard :) Aug 09 07:58:03 well...it's like this Aug 09 07:58:19 rotate the screen and xrandr follows suit (accellerometers) Aug 09 07:58:20 tap tap tap...enter letters and app predicts your text Aug 09 07:58:42 broken Aug 09 07:58:43 tap-hold, and you can force the letter Aug 09 07:58:45 i like the idea of flipping it upsiddown to init suspend mode Aug 09 07:59:06 kd8ikt: ooohhh...cool! Aug 09 08:02:12 and does it work kd8ikt? Aug 09 08:02:23 works for me Aug 09 08:02:41 i modified his email attached version for doing upsidown Aug 09 08:02:51 just a matter of adding 2 lines Aug 09 08:03:06 pretty pimptastic Aug 09 08:03:30 yes indeed, but doesn't it use up a lot of resources? (polling for the accelerometers?) Aug 09 08:03:51 i didnt care enough to look Aug 09 08:04:14 is there a daemon for that? Aug 09 08:10:52 just following SD preparation as per WIKI and wonder if I need to prep partions and format of SD via NEO or if in fact I can use my ubuntu desktop to do the same ? Aug 09 08:11:29 hipitihop_: you can use your laptop Aug 09 08:11:49 hipitihop_: are you using fat+ext2? Aug 09 08:12:34 tedo, haven't decided, whatever is best for me to put 2008.8 on SD (have Qtopia flashed) Aug 09 08:13:17 tedo probably ext2 perhaps even ext3 although this is just to play with so journaling is probably not important Aug 09 08:13:47 i tried ext3 yesterday for the rootfs and it didn't work. ext2 is working fine Aug 09 08:14:02 undrwate1, sorry see reply to you aimed at tedo Aug 09 08:14:14 i got the message ;) Aug 09 08:14:31 i'm still working on getting that to work... Aug 09 08:14:35 reiserfs ftw Aug 09 08:14:38 j/k Aug 09 08:14:39 i can boot kernel.. Aug 09 08:14:44 but not rootfs Aug 09 08:15:08 so sounds like ext2 is the way to go. I geuss I could use gparted (I know probably deserve a smack by linux purists) Aug 09 08:15:26 cfdisk is pretty Aug 09 08:15:35 hmmm seems like you can use maps from google maps with Locations in 2008.8... Aug 09 08:15:38 on ubuntu ? Aug 09 08:15:45 gpqarted is more user friendly ;P Aug 09 08:15:49 on linux Aug 09 08:15:51 -q Aug 09 08:16:54 fdisk /dev/sdx n p 1 n p 2 t 1 6 t 2 83 w mkfs.vfat /dev/sdx1 mkfs.ext2/3 /dev/sdx2 ...:p Aug 09 08:17:14 nice...one liner Aug 09 08:17:23 wyze, is that aimed at me ? Aug 09 08:17:33 thats the cli process Aug 09 08:17:55 shall i continue? Aug 09 08:18:01 when you know what you're doing, that's really user friendly Aug 09 08:18:24 * wyze nods Aug 09 08:18:43 cli is always more userfriendly than point and click ui's when you know what you are donig ;P Aug 09 08:18:53 wyze, ok this feels like a real noob question, cli ? Aug 09 08:19:07 ok command line interface Aug 09 08:19:21 OMG ;) Aug 09 08:19:28 less of a fudge factor with cli vs *parted Aug 09 08:19:38 ime Aug 09 08:19:50 * undrwate1 likes fudge...yummy Aug 09 08:19:59 wyze agree... perhaps that could be added to the WIKI page for SD prep Aug 09 08:20:01 * wyze has been hacking *nix on sd's for too long Aug 09 08:21:16 if i have the time :/ ... i run a web dev company and a security app dev company, plus i'm having to crunch glade / ruby /gtk tonight :s Aug 09 08:21:38 and our cat disappeared Aug 09 08:21:53 priorities...go after that cat!! Aug 09 08:22:08 * wyze nods Aug 09 08:22:13 * hipitihop_ chuckles Aug 09 08:26:23 has anyone opkg upgraded his 2008.8 image today?? Aug 09 08:28:27 * kd8ikt jumps the desk and starts budgeoning Zorkman with a red stapler Aug 09 08:28:42 can't hurt asking Aug 09 08:28:46 kd8ikt: it better be a Swingline Aug 09 08:31:09 * undrwate1 upgraded Aug 09 08:31:19 ...but i had some other repos in there Aug 09 08:31:29 somehow killed gui Aug 09 08:54:28 Also interested in reports of 2008.8, doesn't seem to be as stable as the openmoko team hoped it would be Aug 09 08:54:54 according to a small impression of someone on the mailing list. Aug 09 08:56:26 i tried it... not for long but i tried it Aug 09 08:57:18 What are you using now? Aug 09 08:57:31 beer Aug 09 08:58:00 hmmm... don't think that will help make anything more stable ;) Aug 09 08:58:16 stability is overrated Aug 09 08:58:20 i'm more stable when i'm drunk Aug 09 08:58:28 * wyze agrees Aug 09 09:06:47 kd8ikt: beer ...slurp Aug 09 09:09:01 udrmate1: you weeble and you wobble but you don't fall down? Aug 09 09:11:09 T0o0T: I learned right off to turn off suspend, because it was a HARD Suspend :-( but trying 2008.8 ASU on an SD card is really nice (no worries to go back) Aug 09 09:12:26 ok, once again it is WAY TOO EARLY in the MORNING here, so I'm gonna put my hacking addiction away for the night.... Aug 09 09:12:30 nite all! Aug 09 09:14:13 kd8ikt: stability *IS* overrated-- Windoze gets frequent reboots; they just DON'T fix leaks,etc in a week or so Aug 09 09:15:20 well, time to stop talking to myself...I can only help with the stuff that you can figure out in the Wiki after an hour two anyway Aug 09 09:17:20 if I can help any, I'll linger (LOVE to be helpful) but this channel seems asleep now Aug 09 09:18:14 (Linux addictions never go away, yoiu have to hold them back for the rest of your lie, or not sleep) Aug 09 09:18:23 of you life Aug 09 09:19:17 This channel isn't asleep =) Aug 09 09:19:25 of your life (sorry this is 5am typing...feed the addiction) Aug 09 09:20:28 No use trying to hold the addiction back... I've got Tux tattooed on my right shoulder... For the rest of my life =P Aug 09 09:20:40 Heh. Aug 09 09:21:02 And I thought I were an addict. Aug 09 09:21:08 Ainulindale: hello! I hoped there were others who can't sleep b/c of OM (or in another time zone) Any tips or experiences other than grumpy that 2008.8 isnt perfect :-/ Aug 09 09:21:31 Infoport: I installed 2008.8, saw I couldn't do a thing on that, then switched back to FSO Aug 09 09:21:40 And inbetween made a patch to support DTMF Aug 09 09:21:41 Rakshasa: I tip my hat (my RedHat fedora is in the other room, but I mean it!!!) Aug 09 09:23:12 Ainulindale: I couldn't buy it when it first came out, but a couple weeks ago my wife said DO IT!!! I have a late start, but I love every grueling moment Aug 09 09:23:21 Infoport: thx. hmm. That'd be one nice looking hat. =P Aug 09 09:24:24 Rakshasa: I need an outfit that does it justice...I love dressing to the hilt, but nothing really matches Aug 09 09:25:08 Rakshasa: a little OT...do you have a pic of the tat online? I've seen a couple, and I'm JEALOUS! Aug 09 09:27:35 Ainulindale: I like the Map-packages you can download for divinity in 20008.8 -- they just aren't my cities. It has been discussed, and I'd love to grab map packages for the areas around me Aug 09 09:28:00 I mean map packages for OM2007 Aug 09 09:28:02 Infoport: I think more importantly we need stable stuff :-) Aug 09 09:28:03 how were they made in the first place? Aug 09 09:28:18 For my part I need a phone which is actually able to make calls :-) Aug 09 09:28:23 That's why I'm happy using FSO Aug 09 09:28:36 fso can do that...qtopia tambien Aug 09 09:29:02 undrwate1: I wasn't able to do a call with qtopia (ASU) Aug 09 09:29:11 And it was slow as hell Aug 09 09:29:15 Ainulindale: no...qtopia proper Aug 09 09:29:17 undrwae1: there is a limited number of zooms for any view-- they just put together full zooms of a few MAJOR cities (which was discussed for tangogps and other software) Aug 09 09:29:19 And ugly (to my eyes) Aug 09 09:30:02 Infoport: i live in a major city..can't find my map :P Aug 09 09:30:52 a fr not recognizing sd cards should be a kernel- not distro-issue, shouldn't it? Aug 09 09:30:54 Infoport: http://pallokorva.org/tuxtat.jpg Aug 09 09:31:06 Ainulindale: I followed the wiki for wolume adjustments, and had no sound on my end for a week, until someone gave me defaults and I made just a few changes. Aug 09 09:31:09 Oh, a beard Aug 09 09:31:31 Infoport: that's not sound related, just merely it won't call, saying there's no network Aug 09 09:31:41 Whereas using 2007.2 and FSO I can just do what I want Aug 09 09:31:49 Ainulindale: and I had a prepaid "starter phone" before, so I'm dealing with it Aug 09 09:32:48 Ainulindale: no, I made calls, but it didn't send or receive the sound audibly. The "echo" changes helped, but the "buss" changes made it silent Aug 09 09:33:33 I agree though-- OM2007 has stayed most stable for me, even using daily upgrades Aug 09 09:34:32 does the wifi thing in settings actually attach to an AP? Aug 09 09:34:46 or is it purely to show what's around? Aug 09 09:35:01 does it show any networks for you? Aug 09 09:35:05 yes Aug 09 09:35:17 8 in my locality Aug 09 09:35:17 Rashasa: the shoulder looks good! I have one tat, but I've been thinking I should save my arms and go to my back next...but sooo many hobbies I could tat :-D Aug 09 09:35:34 Rakshasa: that tat is CLASSIC though!! Aug 09 09:37:17 undrwate1: do you close usb0 when you ifupo eth0? mine sometimes seems ok, but other times I think the gateway definition for usb0 might be interfering (mentioned in a Wiki somewhere) Aug 09 09:37:46 Only one for me I feel fanatic enough to take a tattoo =P Aug 09 09:37:57 so you can't have both usb and wifi? Aug 09 09:38:20 Tanuva: there is an issue with SDHC cards (more than 2G, like 4G+) and a workaround, but there is an issue with booting from SDHC Aug 09 09:39:39 dns53: there probably *IS*, cause a regular Linux system can figure it out, but I would go to the wiki to boost my limited knowledge Aug 09 09:40:05 Infoport: yes....works fine for a while...but then collisions start ( i think ) Aug 09 09:40:06 Infoport: it's a hc/4gig one, and it did work properly yet with a little older kernel... Aug 09 09:40:18 dns53: one fix is to take usb0 down and then usb0 up, but I think someone might have written a script that does it better Aug 09 09:40:40 anyway, i close usb and start eth0 Aug 09 09:40:55 other way around ;) Aug 09 09:41:01 ok, i'm happy that i atleast have usb Aug 09 09:41:17 Another non-free iPhone like: http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS5396904668.html Aug 09 09:41:21 undrwate1: do you use a script, or just poke at the terminal keyboard each time? Aug 09 09:41:51 Infoport: ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 Aug 09 09:41:58 ssh 192.168.0.202 Aug 09 09:42:08 Could the Openmoko display be bigger, say 3.2-inch ? Aug 09 09:42:13 script might be nice Aug 09 09:42:37 dns53: I think if you went somwhere NOT using usb, with wifi configured, it would be as good as having shut it down and you would be golden-- I just have used usb mostly Aug 09 09:42:47 anyway...kids will wake up soon...got to get as much sleep as possible Aug 09 09:43:28 night all ( or your respective timelines) Aug 09 09:43:45 undrwate1: have a good nite! I should probably sleep for the cvamping I already put off a day, but....addiction leads me on Aug 09 09:45:23 Tanuva: I think that you can currently boot rootfs off SDHC, but not the kernel, but the Booting_from_SD page tells it at the bottom. So far I just bought a couple of 2G cards instead Aug 09 09:46:14 Infoport: but I don't boot off sd at all, it's just that it doesn't recognize the card's partitions now - /dev/mmcblk0 is there Aug 09 09:46:52 really strange imho. Aug 09 09:46:52 Infoport, I'm about to setup/partition my SD card (first time) so that I can install 2008.8 on it (currently have Qtopia flashed), anything I should know ? Aug 09 09:47:31 Tanuva: hmm...haven't seen that MYSELF (but I am only up to a point myself too) Aug 09 09:47:45 first partition should be fat, the next should be ext3, uImage.bin goes in the fat, the tar contents goes to the ext2 Aug 09 09:48:00 it needs the uImage.bin name there Aug 09 09:48:53 Infoport: I'll just try mwester's kernel, maybe that does the job Aug 09 09:49:12 dns53, is htat aimed at me or Infoport Aug 09 09:49:28 hipitihop: if you get/flash a uBoot past 7-23, you can pout the kernel on ext2 instead of VFAT, and you can even put each kernel and rootf on one partition each (found out after I had done it) and just change the variable in the uBoot option to point to the path instead of a generic variable with just uImage.bin set (no path) Aug 09 09:50:10 Infoport: is there a howto flash the kernel on a fr anywhere? The wiki wasn't that helpful... Aug 09 09:51:01 Tanuva: a lot of the info is there, but I had to open 2-3 pages and flip around the first time to get it right...I'll look for a link Aug 09 09:51:46 Infoport, 7-23 ? Aug 09 09:51:59 ./df-util -a kernel -R -D uImage.bin Aug 09 09:52:18 hipitihop_: july-23 Aug 09 09:52:26 Tanuva: oh! on SD, once you set up the partitions with a reasonable chunk each, you actually copy the uIm,age.bin over, and un-tar the rootf into its partition Aug 09 09:52:40 Infoport: correct Aug 09 09:53:10 hipitihop: flash a uBoot = or later than 7-23-2008 date Aug 09 09:53:30 Tanuva, ah yes already have more recent Aug 09 09:53:43 I don't Aug 09 09:53:45 :D Aug 09 09:55:34 dns53: I thought so too, but someone else pointed out that with newer uBoot, they can all be ext2 (or *probably* ext3 also), and it only has to be called uImage if you make the uBoot menu entry to use the same variable for the name or put literally "uImage.bin"--if you spell it out "uImage-special-recipie.bin" it can load that one Aug 09 09:57:03 dns53: so instead of ${sd_card_image} or whatever, you can put "/boot/uImage-my-recipie.bin" and put the uImage on the same partition os the rootfs Aug 09 09:57:42 uImage-my-recipe.bin is my boring example Aug 09 09:57:51 Infoport, someone else said they couldn't get ext3 going so I guess I'll set up ext2...as for uBoot variables, that's outside of my understanding at this point, so more to learn Aug 09 10:01:26 hipitihop: to have it boot, you have to go into uBoot (in wiki directions) and enter a line "setenv menu_# blah blah" and there is a variable that is set to uImage.bin-- just put a literal path instead of the ${sd_image_name} variable in the "setenv" statement (which the wiki gives you to copy and paste!) Aug 09 10:04:49 hipitihop: the newer uBoot halready had the boot from SD with VFAT and ext3 option, but I wanted the ext2+ext2 option possible wit hthe newe uBoot...the Wiki explains it in detail, and then gives you a cut-n-paste statement Aug 09 10:05:37 /me has broken his freerunner *again* from installing too much stuff (om2007.2) Aug 09 10:06:03 it gets up to the sunrise screen "please wait" and then freezes... :( Aug 09 10:06:04 tdobson" buy TWO, they're small! :-D Aug 09 10:06:16 I guess there goes another flash... :( Aug 09 10:06:37 Infoport: haha. yeah, I would if I could afford it actually Aug 09 10:06:39 tdosbon: did you fill your card and cant boot b/c of no tmp space? Aug 09 10:06:47 but its more fun trying to persuade other people to get them Aug 09 10:07:37 tdobson: that is EXACTLY why I enable local GUI login for root, for when /home gets filled and normal users cant login (in normal Linux like Fedora/Ubuntu, etC) Aug 09 10:07:43 Infoport: not sure. I suppose it was possible. I downloaded a *large* amount of kernel updates Aug 09 10:08:51 tdosbon: strange...my 512MB was ok with daily updates for as long as I had it in (with stuff written to internal memory anyway) Aug 09 10:09:16 Infoport, so you followed instructions here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD and would recommend to follow them as is ? Aug 09 10:09:27 Infoport: well I'm going to take a look Aug 09 10:09:41 I just finally completed SD boot when the new image came out (only had mine for 2 weeks) Aug 09 10:10:10 if I do need to flash it again, I'm going to write a script to install all the junk I want for a 2007.2 install Aug 09 10:12:08 hmm Aug 09 10:12:10 hipitihop: yes! I followed a link or two for more info. If you want, I'm told you can spell out the path in the "setenv" statement, and put each kernal&rootfs on one partition each, and simplify, but I only have one OS on the SD now, with a partition for kernel (called uImage.bin) and the only issue I had was 2008.8 doesnt alway resume from suspend, so I turned it to "off" in the Settings once booted Aug 09 10:12:15 I don't seem to be having space issues Aug 09 10:12:24 is there a command to verify what version of uboot I have ? Aug 09 10:14:20 hipitihop: if you boot into NAND (hold power, then immediately AUX for 5-8 sec, and uBoot menu comes up) it will tell you a version. But then you need to start following thosedirections, like over usb change the timeout away from 60 sec to 99999 so you have time to edit. It is really like grub, but the menus are in env. variables in memory Aug 09 10:15:23 hipitihop[: there is a Bootload page linked from there that helped me also Aug 09 10:15:38 (from Booting_from_SD_card) Aug 09 10:17:05 Infoport, I'm assuming I do not have to reflash my currently working Qtopia as part of this process and instead can just copy/flash directly to sdhc Aug 09 10:18:40 hipitihop: correct: I kept my OM2007 with updates on the internal memory. you just either have to hold buttons to get the boot menu, and choose your new boot from SD vfat or ext2 + ext2, or set it as default (which I dont want to do yet) Aug 09 10:19:53 hipitihop: in fact, you *could* do everything on a host computer with the microSD card inserted (*except* for the new uBoot menu_# entry) Aug 09 10:20:11 Infoport, thanks, I think I understand enough to be dangerous. doing Fdisk on sdhc now Aug 09 10:20:27 right Aug 09 10:20:42 Infoport, doing verything on host via ssh session to fr Aug 09 10:20:49 Hello, I have problems with my network setup again, my config looks like this: computer 192.168.0.200, openmoko 192.168.0.202, router 192.168.0.1, netmask on computer for dev usb0 255.255.255.248. I can ping the desktop from within the ssh session of the openmoko, but I cannot ping www.google.com, though I can ping googles ip address. i have set the nameserver in /etc/resolv.conf to 192.168.0.200 (my desktop) Aug 09 10:20:52 I can't be bothered figuring out why this isn't working because I could be here all day... Aug 09 10:21:01 * tdobson flashes the filesystem Aug 09 10:21:04 just read that raster is going to quit openmoko :( Aug 09 10:21:08 btw: i have 2008.8 on openmoko Aug 09 10:21:25 loony: do you have an ssh session Aug 09 10:21:31 (on the freerunner) Aug 09 10:21:33 hipitihop: when you boot from SD, you really have most all of on the card. One warning: there are special SDHC instructions (for HD cards...4G+) and I think you cant have the kernel there, but I didnt dfo that--refer to the Booting_from_SD_card page at the bottom Aug 09 10:21:59 tdobson: yes, as I said, I can ping googles ip from within ssh in openmoko, but not "www.google.com" Aug 09 10:22:09 Infoport, have default new sd from openmoko which came with fr, 512 me thinks Aug 09 10:22:16 Zorkman: any idea why? Aug 09 10:22:19 loony: set the nameserver in /etc/resolf.conf to "212.159.6.9" Aug 09 10:22:26 it will save you hours of headaches Aug 09 10:22:43 oops spealt resolv.conf wrong - don't copy and paste that Aug 09 10:22:53 tdobson: traceroute gives me "traceroute: www.google.com: Host name lookup failure" Aug 09 10:22:58 hipitihop: then it is SD, but SDHC is for 4G and over (and for some reason currently has special issues/procedures) Aug 09 10:23:09 tdobson: whats that? i mean what nameserver is that? Aug 09 10:23:27 Infoport: nope, but i did hear him say a while ago that he wasn't all that agreed with some descisions (e.g. the keyboard stuff and being forced to do everything in python and not using c) Aug 09 10:23:33 loony: yeah. change the nameserver from 192.168.0.200 to 212.159.6.9 Aug 09 10:23:50 loony: it's the local dns server for me... you might want to use your own Aug 09 10:24:17 tdobson: ok, I'll try that... w8 Aug 09 10:24:17 in my experience using a "real" nameserver solves 90% of problems Aug 09 10:24:21 no prob Aug 09 10:24:27 Infoport: he resigns at the end of august Aug 09 10:24:49 tdobson: I use my router, but you can also use your providers nameservers (named in your host computer probably). My router is fed from them, so it works for me. Aug 09 10:26:02 Infoport: I use "normal" nameservers so I can use wifi nicely from "outside" Aug 09 10:26:25 Infoport, hmm, got following during fdisk: Calling ioctl() to re-read partition table Aug 09 10:26:25 fdisk: WARNING: rereading partition table failed, kernel still uses old table: Device or resource busy Aug 09 10:26:26 Infoport: do you know if 8GN microSDHC cards are supported/work Aug 09 10:26:40 s/GN/GB/ Aug 09 10:26:40 tdobson meant: Infoport: do you know if 8GB microSDHC cards are supported/work Aug 09 10:26:48 indeed Aug 09 10:27:05 they work (no idea about booting) Aug 09 10:27:10 Zorkman: wow. I can understand some people really have strong language preferences, and frankly I wonder at some things but havent been able to read every list message recently-- I can understand differences in architecture preferences. (running Linux for godsake) Aug 09 10:27:49 tdobson: thanks, putting the dns of my provider directly worked... strange, before I used qtopia and there "192.168.0.200" worked fine as the dns... must be something with 2008.8 Aug 09 10:28:02 Infoport: he will be continuing to contribute to the community though, thank god for that Aug 09 10:28:28 loony: well I've had that problem since I got it, but anyway.. if you get that error again, that's how I would solve it :) Aug 09 10:28:37 Infoport: I do hope they get a good replacement... raster really cared and I can't say for sure, but I think he was a pretty damn good programmer Aug 09 10:29:05 tdobson: thanks again... bye Aug 09 10:29:09 apt: yes, but I think there are some issues with workarounds. Maybe they havent gotten perfect support? I just read of the boot workarounds. The uBoot doesnt do it, but the kernel DOES (so 2nd part can go there). I *THINK*-- I just stayed with 2G (being "cautious"??) Aug 09 10:29:09 Infoport: what are you talking about? Aug 09 10:29:18 loony: no prob Aug 09 10:30:13 Infoport: I think apt was quoting me Aug 09 10:30:25 apt: sorry--- SDHC cards. The bottom of Booting_from_SD_card page has specific instructions for SDHC b/c of some issue/non-compliant support Aug 09 10:30:47 Infoport, tdobson: apt is a bot i think :) Aug 09 10:30:50 Infoport: apt is a bot Aug 09 10:30:55 lol Aug 09 10:31:31 DOH! I get caught by bots. Aug 09 10:31:32 Infoport: thanks anyway :P Aug 09 10:31:37 in #sidux people always talk to aynoS, who is a bot, too.. Aug 09 10:32:03 Infoport: so either the bot is damn good or... :P Aug 09 10:32:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boten_Anna # strikes parallels Aug 09 10:32:19 :) Aug 09 10:32:26 yeah, maybe apt really is a hot blonde :) Aug 09 10:32:55 Tanuva: like I've told people here...I'm *only* a few steps ahead of those I try to help...not a wizard, just play one on TV Aug 09 10:33:14 Infoport: same here, if even a few steps :) Aug 09 10:33:21 * tdobson too Aug 09 10:33:25 Tanuva: maybe the bot has one up on me :-D Aug 09 10:33:37 hehe Aug 09 10:33:40 hah Aug 09 10:34:13 so, let's see if I can find a kernel that reads my sdhc card again... Aug 09 10:35:07 sometimes when I catch a bot, I try to say something stupid or really overboard, b/c I feel stupid people need help (hey, *I* got help) and I wnat to check...but they pull me in where I'd never trust spam Aug 09 10:36:39 a little OT: I've seem a few logs where an Eliza program was set so a chat room, and many people never knew, even if they got annoyed. the masses are SO FUNNY! Aug 09 10:37:32 lol Aug 09 10:38:27 Infoport: I've seen some funny bots Aug 09 10:38:33 hehehe I met a geek friend from Science and Math a couple weeks ago. He had an iPhone coming, and I told him I had the Openmoko phone coming...he was duly impressed and I won the geek-off for once Aug 09 10:39:44 Eliza used to freeze if you had a few lines of conversation, then said "why won't you help me" Aug 09 10:41:16 Infoport, please see http://paste.uni.cc/19237 error I get when trying fdisk on my sd Aug 09 10:41:29 (so far) I'm slightly ahead of the average AI program like Eliza Aug 09 10:42:02 Infoport: especially because you know irony ;D Aug 09 10:42:32 hipitihop_: your card was/is still mounted, a reboot should fix that Aug 09 10:42:45 (-> provoke the kernel to reread the part-table Aug 09 10:43:03 hipitihop: it is mounted, cant be changed b/c of that Aug 09 10:43:03 Infoport, strange, it is a fresh boot and I have never mounted it by hand Aug 09 10:43:11 oops a little late on the ingo Aug 09 10:43:13 info Aug 09 10:43:29 the first part gets mounted automagically Aug 09 10:43:39 Infoport, should I just rip it out and do the same on my ubununtu host Aug 09 10:44:17 hipititop: it has been partitioned already, and is mounting. I used a new card, but I think that is the problem (like Tanuva said :-D ) Aug 09 10:44:58 12:42:31 hipitihop_: your card was/is still mounted, a reboot should fix that Aug 09 10:45:23 Tanuva, ok will reboot it now to see Aug 09 10:45:58 hipitihop: well, a matter of preference...I thought my alternate boots might not last, so I bought two 2G cards and plan to switch for a third boot (until they're worth keeping long) Aug 09 10:46:59 512M seemed too limiting, even if it is my imagination, so I use it for data only Aug 09 10:47:20 Infoport, makes sense..currently only have what came with fr out of the box and simply want to play with 2008.8 as Qtopia seems most usable/stable stack Aug 09 10:47:51 i'm glad i tarred up all the stuff i had on /media/card and made a back up. my card keeps getting cleared, i don't know if it's the reflashing that's doing it or something else, but it's insanely annoying Aug 09 10:48:01 check salescircular.com for weekly deals (or elsewhere) and you can get a 2G for ~$13 Aug 09 10:49:05 Infoport: I bought this one big card because switching the sd card is really... annoying on this device ;) Aug 09 10:49:10 trix: if you update through "opkg" it doesn't erase, but I think a flash (like dfu_util) erases it Aug 09 10:49:30 because /media/card is part of rootfs? Aug 09 10:49:39 yuck Aug 09 10:49:53 dfu-utils doesn't flash to sdcarfds Aug 09 10:49:53 Tanuva: amen! maybe a change in the next? if they want to reserve an SD card for OS, they need another handy Aug 09 10:50:46 Infoport: DO they want to reserve a whole card? Aug 09 10:50:56 isn't that up to you? Aug 09 10:51:01 trix, Tanuva: good point...sorry, I am not the wizard my pointy hat implies. :-/ Aug 09 10:51:11 :D Aug 09 10:51:36 trix: the sdcard should never get erased automatically afaik Aug 09 10:51:53 Tanuva: I think it should only be if you set configs in tagogps and links and other places that your SD card gets used Aug 09 10:51:55 yeah. got this 8gb sd card figuring i'd keep a whole plethora of stuff on it between re-flashing the OS. but it gets wiped out. Aug 09 10:51:56 (although I got the impression that mine lost it's partitions...) Aug 09 10:53:05 trix, Tanuva: I have not even tried to deal with the SDHC issues, but there are one or two (mentioned in Wiki pages) Aug 09 10:53:08 hmm. well i saw mine lost its partition table once, i think it was due to a suspend. the rest of the times it's just emptied Aug 09 10:53:09 Tanuva, you are correct.reboot cleared it and fdisk now worked Aug 09 10:53:13 I can try any kernel, none of the wants to see more than /dev/mmcblk0... :/ Aug 09 10:53:28 hipitihop_: nice :) Aug 09 10:53:51 trix: due to a suspend?! maybe I got the same issue Aug 09 10:54:11 yeah i forget what os i was running at that point. maybe fso? i forget. Aug 09 10:54:29 Tanuva: Ubuntu was so "automagical" that I fscked mine over the Freerunner rather than deal with Ubuntu auto-mounting options and crap Aug 09 10:54:35 it was documented on the wiki as well. total corruption of the sd card Aug 09 10:54:39 * hipitihop_ goes to second step, mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1 Aug 09 10:55:48 trix: then I'll just repart it, luckily nothing valuable on it yet :) Aug 09 10:56:37 Tanuva, that's good. definitely make an image out of it once there's stuff you don't want to lose Aug 09 10:56:50 Tanuva: that is why I like to start with very separated partitions with beta OSes. Just switch cards! Aug 09 10:57:38 Infoport: considering this, you're right :D Aug 09 10:57:58 Tanuva: I feel a little guily that /home or something isnt on a separate partition-- that has helped me on other Linux systems when hardware or configs start to fail Aug 09 10:58:40 * hipitihop_ mkfs of 1 as fat and 2 as ext3 worked Aug 09 10:59:43 Infoport: that's why I store all my data not in /home/root but in /media/card :) Aug 09 11:00:27 hipitihop_: ext3 is imho not the best choice because the journal eats many r/w cycles of the flash mem Aug 09 11:00:27 hipitihop: yea!!! with a new-ish uBoot, you may already have the entry. If you need to add it, or go ext2+ext2 (no VFAT) the Wiki has a cut-n-paste command to add that menu item(kudos, it works!!) Aug 09 11:01:04 seems like I really gotta get a new uboot... Aug 09 11:01:38 Tanuva: I should do that on OM, but havent yet :-/ I'm trying to think if I should make it 3rd or 4th oartition on each :-D Aug 09 11:02:00 (for consistency across my own cards) Aug 09 11:02:02 I just got one huge, that's enough for now Aug 09 11:02:27 Tanuva, sigh, I'm following th WIKI, but agree.... should I restart ? Aug 09 11:03:04 Tanuva: the Uboot images from 7-23-2008 forward dont even need VFAT, and the wiki gives you each tyope of uBoot entry! :thubup: Aug 09 11:03:06 hipitihop_: you also may simply mount e3 as e2, just change the fstab Aug 09 11:03:31 Infoport: okay, that's the next step on my schedule Aug 09 11:04:14 Tanuva, hmm I don't mind going back to step 1 and fdisk again... but me thinks time to go chill and watch olympics ;-) Aug 09 11:04:34 hehe, hf :) Aug 09 11:04:51 hf ? Aug 09 11:04:55 have fun Aug 09 11:04:56 anyone know if it's possible to install applications to the sd card, so that if i install a new image, i'll still have the same apps as before? Aug 09 11:04:59 hipitihop: agreed-- I formatted as ext3, but then ended up mounting as ext2 (b/c wiki implied *maybe* it needed it) Aug 09 11:05:36 so the general consensus is might aswell format as ext2 ? Aug 09 11:06:40 hipitihop: you *will* change it :D I made a kernel partition in ext2, and then another here told me with newer uBoot that supports ext2, you could just put it in one partition and specify it on the setenv line Aug 09 11:07:21 hipitihop: but hey, it works for me now...no point in changing, b/c it *will* be different in the future anyway Aug 09 11:07:23 ajbrun, you would have to create the filesystem links each time Aug 09 11:08:10 Infoport, shaking head in a bit of confusion. Thanks for the help all, opinions and notes taken. Will ponder after some olympics Aug 09 11:08:13 hmm ok Aug 09 11:08:47 Tanuva, Infoport thanks for putting up with my noob questions Aug 09 11:09:20 oh man the suns back up Aug 09 11:09:20 hipitihop: I spent a couple of hours reading, and an hour asking for advice on what I didn't understand...that is why I can pass along the knowledge of others so easily :-D Aug 09 11:09:24 ajbrun, this details the linking process, but it would have to be done after each reflashing (or you'd have to record the symlinks being made - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Package_management#Linking.2FUsing_Packages_on_the_Card Aug 09 11:09:49 ty - i'll give it a look :) Aug 09 11:10:12 hipitihop_: there are no noob questions :D Aug 09 11:10:43 kd8ikt: I'm the only one addicted enough to still be awake in my house :-/ Aug 09 11:10:49 * kd8ikt puts up a sign that read "Dont Feed the n00bs" Aug 09 11:11:16 they're stoma Aug 09 11:11:23 chs cant handle human food Aug 09 11:11:58 kd8ikt, any place i can find the lint-wifi_rc1.ipk? Aug 09 11:12:04 Knowledge is Power. Power is Exhiliration. Exhiliration is the Drug. Need more? Aug 09 11:12:08 howbout that neat lil python script for swaping display Aug 09 11:12:26 i guess i could compile it... yet again Aug 09 11:12:43 kd8ikt: is that for 2008.8? have't figured out how I change orientation yet Aug 09 11:12:51 the last compile was for 2007.2 right? that's what i'm running :) Aug 09 11:12:56 if it uses xrandr aswell it should work Aug 09 11:13:37 its not meant or not meant for any build its a general app that just requires python+gtk Aug 09 11:13:45 kd8ikt, well thanks for your work on it, it was looking pretty cool Aug 09 11:14:01 ieatlint: did most of it Aug 09 11:14:12 Divinity-Wifi is in the 2008.8 installer, although I havent put it to use yet Aug 09 11:14:12 the balls of it Aug 09 11:16:04 I'm supposed to be camping, but new stuff came out and...I said maybe today.... hmmm Aug 09 11:16:57 kd8ikt, when i had it installed yesterday it was refusing to run for some reason, then i gave 2008.8 a go, when i switched back i realized the link was down, now it looks like it's gone from the wiki. i'll keep an eye out for it though :) Aug 09 11:17:24 yeah i've been getting PM's ever since i deleted it Aug 09 11:17:40 In the software shipped on the freerunner, how can I know the current battery capacity? Aug 09 11:17:51 I'm such a self-absorbed ass, I have been tinkering the last full day and making excuses Aug 09 11:18:04 I can't really find anything about how to flash uboot to a fr. Can I simply pass "-a uboot" to dfu-util?! Aug 09 11:18:35 -a u-boot if i remember correctly Aug 09 11:18:50 it is on the wiki Aug 09 11:19:00 yeah that's right Aug 09 11:19:06 Zero_Dogg: there is an icon in the top (replaced by a bolt-symbol when charging) When not charging, it shows a level. If it doesn't plug in usb/charger and un-plug, and it refreshes. Aug 09 11:19:20 okay, thanks :) Aug 09 11:19:21 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Aug 09 11:19:49 oh. I haven't seen that page yet. A miracle! :D Aug 09 11:20:40 Infoport: hrm, I just have a battery symbol with a ! inside it (charging it for the first time so want to know when it's done :) Aug 09 11:21:03 Zero_Dogg: afaik that battery meter is broken Aug 09 11:21:58 Tanuva: figures, can I get it any other way? Some cli app or /proc file maybe? Aug 09 11:22:20 Zero_Dogg: The battery meter shipped with the phone, doesn't work very well.. It will light green, when it's done, but you can't see how much it have recharged yet. Aug 09 11:22:51 Bubbi: ah, well, then I'll at least know when it's done. Thanks. Aug 09 11:23:14 But if you get an ! inside, then it indicates that it isn't recharging, but rather that the phone is shortly to have a drained battery. Aug 09 11:23:34 Zero_Dogg: Did you put it into the charger unit, or your pc..? Aug 09 11:23:52 Bubbi: charger, and it powered on all on its own when I put it into the socket Aug 09 11:23:57 Zero_Dogg: yeah I wish too...it will stop chargin when its done, then even give a warning that it is dropping (before it recharges). Maybe the status icon will improve. :-D Aug 09 11:25:05 hehe Aug 09 11:25:19 Zero_Dogg: Yeah, then it's just that the battery icon doesn't work correctly. I'd give it some hours in the charger, then it should have changed its icon Aug 09 11:25:30 now when I took it out of the socket and put it in again it rebooted Aug 09 11:25:47 okay, thanks, I'll just leave it alone then (as hard as that is) Aug 09 11:25:56 it all depends what os image/ui u have Aug 09 11:26:02 as to what may be displayed Aug 09 11:26:03 :)] Aug 09 11:26:20 Zero_Dogg: the software in the phone from the start is in a very early beta stage.. and now it's even deprecated. :) Aug 09 11:26:34 yeah, I'll reflash new software once it has charged Aug 09 11:27:51 I haven't flashed it yet for the new 2008.8 image.. there's a lot of issues on the small list.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2008.8#Known_Issues Aug 09 11:28:14 Can anybody tell if it's really annoying problems, or can you live with it for the moment..? Aug 09 11:28:45 will this do what I think it will: "echo "\nnameserver 212.159.6.9" > /etc/resolv.conf;" Aug 09 11:28:57 put a newline before "nameserver" Aug 09 11:28:59 ? Aug 09 11:29:24 Bubbi: you ought to have a look at it. at the momemnt I'm sticking with 2007 Aug 09 11:29:24 echo -e if you want the \n to ne interpreted Aug 09 11:29:29 but why do you want it there? Aug 09 11:29:58 cozub: because it might already have a line there...? Aug 09 11:30:13 > will anyway overwite old contents Aug 09 11:30:16 * tdobson puts up disclaimer that his script writing abilities are very poor Aug 09 11:30:18 tdobson: i'm not using the phone for the moment anyway, so it couldn't be any worse at the moment.. :) Does tangoGPS work for it..? Aug 09 11:30:20 use >> to append... Aug 09 11:30:36 but still, the \n before should not be needed, as any sane text file does have a trailing newline Aug 09 11:30:38 Bubbi: it has it's own tango gps-like software Aug 09 11:30:50 oh okay.. :) thanks.. Aug 09 11:31:00 I didn't manage to test it last night though I think it would work, how ell.... I don't know Aug 09 11:31:05 bah, I just flashed uboot, kernel and rootfs and wifi say 'unknown'. Aug 09 11:31:16 matholio: da same here Aug 09 11:31:29 Bubbi: I'd test it, see what you think, test qtopia and fso while you are at it and then see what you are most comfortable with Aug 09 11:31:36 but it's up to you :P Aug 09 11:31:36 and Profile 'unknown' Aug 09 11:31:50 there's this http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1625 Aug 09 11:32:05 no idea what exactly it means, for me it was "not even once" Aug 09 11:32:11 cozub: aha. thanks :) Aug 09 11:32:16 tdobson: np :) Aug 09 11:32:39 tdobson: thanks for the tips.. as far as I can see on the screenshots, the interface of the 2008.8 is by far the best of them all, so i'll try that at least :) Aug 09 11:33:53 Bubbi: it's different. qtopia is interesting to look at as well. I haven't tried FSO and I probably should, but atm I'm wrting/trying to write a script to setup 2007.2 nicely with a load of stuff installed :) Aug 09 11:34:09 :) Aug 09 11:34:45 is http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ down for anyone else? Aug 09 11:35:00 tdobson: I've just started my 3 weeks of vacation, so I've got nothing holding me back from testing it all :P Aug 09 11:35:15 Bubbi: similar :) Aug 09 11:35:26 tdobson: yep.. it's not really responding very fast.. (timeout) Aug 09 11:35:39 :( Aug 09 11:35:58 * tdobson gives up on thinking about installing some packages from it's repository for the time being Aug 09 11:42:13 since setenv doesn't seem to be able to simply overwrite uboot env variables (menu_1 f.e.), how to I erase menu_1 (or it's content) first? Aug 09 11:44:20 tanuva: normally you do "setenv menu_1" Aug 09 11:45:02 malik1972: ah... I just found out that the newly edited var isn't displayed together with the others but at the bottom of the list Aug 09 11:45:05 isn't "fdisk -l" supposed to show all the disks and partitions when run on the FR? Aug 09 11:45:25 ok i'm repackaging lint-wifi Aug 09 11:45:25 tanuva: right Aug 09 11:45:50 and throwing in a bunch of eastereggs Aug 09 11:46:42 will those images be based on the official 2008.8 image: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/workdir/deploy/glibc/images/om-gta02/200808/ Aug 09 11:49:15 wow , my FR arrived today Aug 09 11:50:28 any ideas on how to debug openmoko applications efficiently? Aug 09 11:50:40 my gsmd keeps dying after a while Aug 09 11:50:57 lindi-: I know a bit about the gms stuff Aug 09 11:51:14 tdobson: how would you go about debugging gsmd? Aug 09 11:51:21 lindi-: not *very* much though. Aug 09 11:51:23 tdobson: do i need to recompile with debugging symbols? Aug 09 11:51:29 lindi-: run "libgsmd-tool -m atcmd " Aug 09 11:51:37 tdobson: it happens only after a few hours Aug 09 11:51:37 and see what it gives you (over time) Aug 09 11:51:57 tdobson: i was more asking about the general method of debugging on openmoko Aug 09 11:51:57 lindi-: well run it and send the output to a log fiel or something Aug 09 11:52:15 lindi-: I know, but that's what I know :P sorry :P Aug 09 11:52:23 in the ideal case the source code and debugging symbols would be on my PC Aug 09 11:52:32 and openmoko would only have stripped binaries compiled with -O0 Aug 09 11:55:28 trix: Aug 09 11:55:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Lint-wifi#Beta_Testing Aug 09 11:56:35 hi all, i started the qemu emulator and after a while the "phone" starts up, but non of the buttons are working, it is just the welcome screen with the bluetooth sign, a start button, a lock button a big Q etc. but none of the buttons seems to be doing any thing. what am i doing wrong ? Aug 09 11:56:55 ah qtopia Aug 09 11:57:32 nevemind, i found it already Aug 09 11:57:58 looking for a most-recent uboot to try, before giving up on 200808, can anyone help ? Aug 09 11:59:07 kd8ikt: which distro do you run lint-wifi on? Aug 09 11:59:23 ah, I see *scrolling down* Aug 09 12:04:55 does someone use 2008.8? Aug 09 12:05:18 where do i get http://monochromementality.com/data/phoo/2008_08_05/medium/Screenshot-9.png Aug 09 12:07:03 malik1972: that looks like fso Aug 09 12:08:34 kd8ikt: do you want feeding regarding lint-wifi? Aug 09 12:09:00 kd8ikt: is lintwifi in the multiverse repo? Aug 09 12:09:50 malik1972: I'm running 2008.8 Aug 09 12:11:01 no and no Aug 09 12:11:40 its there cause i dont like manually installing each time i need it Aug 09 12:11:52 Anyone know when the Openmoko will be usable by "normal" users, and a bit more mature than it is at the moment? Is there a release roadmap anywhere? Aug 09 12:12:22 The initial estimates were 6 months from hardware release. Aug 09 12:12:34 Oh, ok. Was the release in July? Aug 09 12:12:36 But hardware release was a year late, so . . . Aug 09 12:12:44 kd8ikt: lint-wifi is awesome :) keep up the good work Aug 09 12:12:45 Ahhh.... Aug 09 12:13:15 I'm due to get a new phone in the next few months and wondered whether the Freerunner is viable, yet. Aug 09 12:13:18 Of course the community couldn't help with the hardware issues they had. Aug 09 12:13:37 chris_debian, hi mate Aug 09 12:13:43 Hi, KK. Aug 09 12:13:49 Good to see you here Aug 09 12:13:54 chris_debian, :) Aug 09 12:14:07 If you can contribute anything, even trying to port other apps, I'd say get one now and help it mature. Aug 09 12:14:14 chris_debian, how well it works depends what image you install, and which revision thereof. (and what your tollerance level for bugs is) Aug 09 12:14:28 :-). KK, have you got one, yet? Aug 09 12:14:38 chris_debian: you run gnu/linux? it's worth it as a phone. if you have no knowledge of gnu/linux it's not suitable.. yet Aug 09 12:14:54 chris_debian, yes, two :) (ones on loan to a mate) Aug 09 12:14:56 * tdobson has had his for about 7 days and loves it. Aug 09 12:15:11 Been using GNU/Linux exclusively at home since 1997, and have been a sys admin Aug 09 12:15:53 chris_debian: yeah you would have no difficulties with I - like you I got the freerunner because I needed a new phone and because I though it sounded intersting Aug 09 12:15:55 If there is a reliable image, then count me in. Wasn't sure whether there was a "testing" download and a "stable" Aug 09 12:16:21 KK...cool Aug 09 12:17:03 More like "testing" , "unstable" and "broke-d1ck" (-= Aug 09 12:17:04 I may just have to take the plunge. I'd have my old phone as a back-up Aug 09 12:17:12 :-) Aug 09 12:17:18 chris_debian, if you can afford a few bugs, its seriouslyu worth it, the software will get better, and the hardware can do pretty funky stuf (epeically once the software catches up) Aug 09 12:17:38 chris_debian: it's relatively stable ime. in some places there is stuff that is not there, but what's there is generally stable. where stuff isn't there I suspect there would be stuff there by the time you get one delivered Aug 09 12:17:50 Great...i'm convinced. Is there a roadmap for software releases, or is it daily builds? Aug 09 12:17:59 But if you've used "testing" and seen past the bugs to the potential of the next stable, you should feel right at home. Aug 09 12:18:00 the software development is moving at a *rapid* pace. Aug 09 12:18:26 Sounds like I'd better get my name down for one, in the UK. Aug 09 12:18:38 chris_debian: truebox.co.uk is where I got mine Aug 09 12:18:50 I think they have their next batch on the 30th august Aug 09 12:18:58 seemed quite efficient Aug 09 12:19:00 Guys, thanks for your help. The long haired fuhrer is telling me that my cup of tea is going cold. Got to go. Aug 09 12:19:11 * Kamping_Kaiser is thinking of getting a demo unit in the next AU batch Aug 09 12:19:15 hehe. cya :) Aug 09 12:19:18 chris_debian, later mate Aug 09 12:19:29 Cheers, b4n. Aug 09 12:20:43 nobody ever mentions that it isn't usable a main phone. Aug 09 12:21:07 it is a very exciting device, but it's not a working phone. Aug 09 12:21:29 matholio: that is a matter of opinion really. Aug 09 12:21:46 it is as a working phone here Aug 09 12:21:53 Same here Aug 09 12:22:08 I can call and receive calls, and send & receive SMS. Aug 09 12:22:14 And use my contacts. Aug 09 12:22:23 why can;t I then ? Aug 09 12:22:24 Which is mainly what a phone is supposed to do, isn't it ? Aug 09 12:22:32 are our deviced so different ? Aug 09 12:22:38 devices Aug 09 12:22:47 matholio: what can't yours do? Aug 09 12:22:54 matholio: why can't you indeed, you didn't describe your problem Aug 09 12:23:01 Does 2008.8 not charge in standby mode? Because I just left mine plugged in to AC power in standby overnight, and it's dead now :/ Aug 09 12:23:29 boot up reliably, connect to wifi, detect my carrier, connect via usb. Aug 09 12:23:54 matholio: I don't have problems with bootups, nor with USB or carrier Aug 09 12:24:00 matholio: om2007.2? Aug 09 12:24:04 And I didn't try wifi Aug 09 12:24:19 wifi works nicely with lint-wifi & mofi Aug 09 12:25:12 I just don;t understand how two devices can have the same stuff flashed and have such different outcomes. Aug 09 12:25:31 * tdobson has written a script that should Aug 09 12:25:39 matholio: can you get yours to boot Aug 09 12:26:29 it was booting, just stopped. blank screen. Aug 09 12:26:50 I'm flashing again. if it fails I'll go back to an earlier build. Aug 09 12:27:39 when you get it running, try http://dpaste.com/70346/ to login via usb Aug 09 12:28:05 I just wish it was consistant. Aug 09 12:28:18 (assuming host is ubuntu - otherwise just run as root) Aug 09 12:28:26 with 2007.2 and asu and fso, usb was rock solid. Aug 09 12:29:21 matholio: this is 2008.8? Aug 09 12:29:26 dmesg does not even show the device being plugged in/out. Aug 09 12:29:32 yeah. Aug 09 12:29:36 oh right Aug 09 12:29:41 20080808. Aug 09 12:29:56 * tdobson uses 2007.2 to generate a nice phone. :) Aug 09 12:30:25 qtopia looks a bit like symbian in a polished sort of way. Aug 09 12:30:47 matholio: take kernel from 2007.2? Aug 09 12:31:17 lindi-: serious? Aug 09 12:31:28 matholio: well, if it works? Aug 09 12:31:41 try random kernels. Aug 09 12:32:10 on 2007.2 what script is responsible for stareting neod? cause mine isnt starting Aug 09 12:32:40 i think it is the same that starts X Aug 09 12:32:44 2008.8 is a release. the rootfs and kernel for that release should play well. Aug 09 12:33:00 its not in /etc/matchbox/session? Aug 09 12:33:58 (i'm grumpy, this is such an unproductive time sink, actually hacking seems a remote possibility) Aug 09 12:34:29 ok, fingers crossed for boot..... Aug 09 12:37:35 SIGSEGV Aug 09 12:38:11 ok, booted. hoorah. Aug 09 12:38:44 should the 2008.08 mage from buildhost have things like the package manager already installed? Aug 09 12:38:46 mine didn't Aug 09 12:39:12 bah, no carrier registered. Aug 09 12:39:16 no wifi. Aug 09 12:39:29 no usb. Aug 09 12:39:56 it's hard to be philosophical, when so much does not work. Aug 09 12:41:05 ok, time to find a different build... Aug 09 12:41:34 is "2008.08" the image called "openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-om-gta02 Aug 09 12:41:39 is there a way to change the kb in asu? Aug 09 12:42:08 the 2008.08 is the one linked of the wiki page not the daily build Aug 09 12:42:35 no weatherhead http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Aug 09 12:42:50 kd8ikt: thanks Aug 09 12:43:47 matholio: this is the script I have just used to setup my 2007.2 http://dpaste.com/70345/ - no gurantees it works, won't break your phone your OS or anything but you might be interested. Aug 09 12:43:47 am I expecting anything to actually work in this release? Aug 09 12:43:49 can one switch keyboard on om2008.8 ? Aug 09 12:44:54 xt: yes Aug 09 12:45:05 is there documentation somewhere? Aug 09 12:45:06 or wait. I don't know Aug 09 12:45:45 xt: there seem to be complaints on the support mailing list about keyboard so I suspect there isn't an eay way to change Aug 09 12:45:55 yet Aug 09 12:46:23 tdobson: yeh, I saw that Aug 09 12:46:31 shame though, could change it easily in old release Aug 09 12:48:07 xt: I imagine they will port the other stuff from qtopia -qwerty keybaord and handwriting recognition Aug 09 12:49:00 s/port/copy over/ Aug 09 12:49:01 is there a way of entering a key for my wireless through my ssh connection? Aug 09 12:49:19 dns53: you could edit wpa_supplicant.conf Aug 09 12:49:21 dns53: is it WEP? Aug 09 12:49:28 qtopia isn't x11 so there will be *some* work invlved in it I imagine... possibly Aug 09 12:49:36 if it's just WEP you can set it through ifconfig Aug 09 12:49:50 wpa, i want to use the asu tool so what config file does it use? Aug 09 12:50:00 but i'm afraid they love their own keyboard too much to use qtopia's :/ Aug 09 12:50:44 dns53: I believe it just is a GUI that edits wpa_supplicant.conf Aug 09 12:51:04 cool, i'll just edit that thanks Aug 09 12:51:09 http://dpaste.com/70349/ is might help you choose what to put in your wpa_supplicant Aug 09 12:52:44 What's poppin' kiddies? Aug 09 12:53:42 Zorkman! Aug 09 12:53:51 hi there Aug 09 12:54:02 s'kjera? Aug 09 12:54:27 drinkin a beer chilling in my papasan with my laptop in my lap and my phone next to me Aug 09 12:54:40 kd8, pretty slick :p Aug 09 12:54:44 oh yea also watching venture brothers Aug 09 12:54:57 where's the woman at? Aug 09 12:55:41 thinking where would a goog location be to setup my dual cam, wifi enabled p3 craputer (cam server) Aug 09 12:56:05 motion is neato Aug 09 12:56:38 set it up on your freerunner! Aug 09 12:56:42 That would be impressive. Aug 09 12:56:59 http://www.lavrsen.dk/twiki/bin/view/Motion/WebHome Aug 09 12:57:02 i like that scrolling menu stuff of ASU very much. Aug 09 12:57:21 that is pretty responsible, much better than that scrolling stuff from 2007.2 Aug 09 12:57:24 tdobson: what should i do with this 'libgsmd-tool -m atcmd'? Aug 09 12:57:48 tdobson: i can't call my phone but it says my operators name in the ui as if it were registered Aug 09 12:58:03 lindi-: run it... Aug 09 12:58:28 for me it seems my sim card is b0rked but it basically does diagnostics on your networks Aug 09 12:58:32 #outputs gsm errors Aug 09 12:59:25 where at the keyboard can i find a backspace input? Aug 09 12:59:34 i need to tweak the Map path of tangoGPS Aug 09 12:59:36 I used this to understand the errors http://activexperts.com/activsms/sms/gsmerrorcodes/ but I don't know where it's accurate or anything Aug 09 12:59:51 tdobson: it doesn't seem to output anything but banner Aug 09 12:59:55 beni, just drag your pointer left I believe on the keyboard Aug 09 12:59:59 lindi-: it won't Aug 09 13:00:01 it's rather unintuitive Aug 09 13:00:06 lol i had an error 100 Aug 09 13:00:11 now try doing somethingdialing out Aug 09 13:00:16 winnah! Aug 09 13:00:17 and thats saying "unkown error" Aug 09 13:00:18 calling the phone Aug 09 13:00:25 just great Aug 09 13:00:28 additionally, no character is accepted from the special char keyboard Aug 09 13:00:32 tdobson: i tried calling it, got "the dialed number can not be reached" Aug 09 13:00:37 ie i cant write slashes etc Aug 09 13:00:42 I really wish the dialer would just say error: calling not implemented yet or something Aug 09 13:00:56 powering off the gsm aerial and powering it on Aug 09 13:01:04 or try december software update or something Aug 09 13:01:15 :P Aug 09 13:01:48 ASU SHR GTK BBQ Aug 09 13:02:03 Ahhh found it out!!! Aug 09 13:02:06 lindi-: I would just try all sorts of stuff. I have no idea what do if you figure out the problem - I just know how to look at what is says... Aug 09 13:02:11 very cool gesture recognition Aug 09 13:02:16 hah! Aug 09 13:02:24 just move finger from right to left on keyboard gives backspace Aug 09 13:02:33 Yeah, I just said that. :) Aug 09 13:02:58 People seem to largely like the ASU keyboard input... though I am still skeptical about it's overall performance. Aug 09 13:02:58 I got error 100 and error 313 which aren't nice errors to have Aug 09 13:03:07 and the fact that ASU as a whole still blows. Aug 09 13:03:31 tdobson, happy error day? Aug 09 13:03:38 Dave: sorry, have overlooked Aug 09 13:03:59 I think I'm special, I now get error: 3 from opkg when it fails :P Aug 09 13:04:05 A new discovery! Aug 09 13:04:06 But the problem with special chars remain Aug 09 13:04:22 it seems like the special char keyboard doesnt write anything Aug 09 13:04:28 any hints? Aug 09 13:04:35 You think you're special, just because you're a foreigner? Aug 09 13:04:37 hah! :p Aug 09 13:05:04 uah that is ugly: i have to type LONG onto the char i want to type at the special char keyboard Aug 09 13:05:05 lame Aug 09 13:05:14 haha Aug 09 13:05:48 * Dave hooks electrodes up to speedevil Aug 09 13:06:44 tdobson: no output when i try to call out either Aug 09 13:07:03 It should output... your voice? Aug 09 13:07:39 tdobson: strace -p `pidof gsmd` does not show anything either Aug 09 13:08:00 he likes it better when you clip em to his nipples Aug 09 13:09:16 okay, i think i unerstand the keyboard now. Is there some article on the wiki describing its usage? Aug 09 13:09:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_unable_to_work_with_3G_SIM_cards # may affect you lindi- though by the sound of it not Aug 09 13:09:26 Dave: oh yeah, the past few days have been great fun :P Aug 09 13:09:26 beni_home: don't know much about 2008.8 sorry Aug 09 13:09:27 if not, i will go and write one now Aug 09 13:09:55 beni_home: it would be worth mentjioning the differences between 2008.08 and the stock qtopia keyboard Aug 09 13:11:46 lindi-: try posting to the list :/ I have no idea sorry :( Aug 09 13:12:09 :D Aug 09 13:12:34 Freerunner_unable_to_work_at_all Aug 09 13:12:48 I've just got 2008.08 booted, how do I make the wifi work? Aug 09 13:12:51 it just says "unknown" Aug 09 13:12:51 :P Aug 09 13:12:58 Surprise! Aug 09 13:13:25 Would someone please fix the goddamned offset bug already! Aug 09 13:14:17 Dave: which one? Aug 09 13:14:29 i know two offset bugs Aug 09 13:15:48 trix: Aug 09 13:15:56 Two? Aug 09 13:16:02 There can be only one! :P Aug 09 13:16:10 * Dave smirks Aug 09 13:16:20 Dave: does it have ticket? Aug 09 13:16:30 The pointer offset bug when the device is switched into landscape mode on GTK. Aug 09 13:16:38 lindi, I'm sure it has a million tickets by now. Aug 09 13:16:38 Dave: that is fixed Aug 09 13:16:41 NO IT'S NOT. Aug 09 13:16:52 Dave: i can't reproduce :) Aug 09 13:16:52 yes it is Aug 09 13:17:01 i had the same problem in 2008.8 Aug 09 13:17:04 Dave: the other bug is pointer in 240x320 mode Aug 09 13:17:06 2007.2 was fixed Aug 09 13:17:10 (for me t least) Aug 09 13:17:10 Well 4/5 users yesterday said it was still and issue. Aug 09 13:17:13 I am one of them. Aug 09 13:17:19 in2008.08, is the usb networking broken out of the box? I can ping my phone but not ssh into it Aug 09 13:17:22 Zorkman, you're a special case :P Aug 09 13:17:33 lindi, I can reproduce it. It won't leave me! :( Aug 09 13:17:43 does someone have a spacebar in 2008.8? Can't use the terminal Aug 09 13:18:13 Dave: I can reproduce it in 2007.2 :) Aug 09 13:18:34 speedevil: 3.79V Aug 09 13:18:45 Blalien: try to slide your finger to the right Aug 09 13:18:49 tdobson: good, more fuel for the fire! Aug 09 13:20:38 Dave: do you have the ticket number at hand? Aug 09 13:21:12 Nope, sorry. Aug 09 13:21:16 peter-b: Thanks! ^^ So left is backspace Aug 09 13:21:18 anyone: am I supposed to be able to ssh into the freerunner on 2008.08??? Aug 09 13:21:21 if so, how Aug 09 13:22:04 lindi, suomalainen? :D Aug 09 13:22:11 Dave: yep Aug 09 13:22:19 lindi, aaaa :D Aug 09 13:22:26 weatherhead: I have the same issues. wifi - unknown; usb inop. Aug 09 13:22:43 rakastan suomalainen! Aug 09 13:22:51 usb works for me in 2008.8 Aug 09 13:22:55 matholio: I had this working in the "qtopia-devel" image from buildhost Aug 09 13:22:59 mind you that was broken in most other ways Aug 09 13:23:07 the same as in 2007..2 Aug 09 13:23:20 hmmmm Aug 09 13:23:23 lindi, are you looking for the ticket? Aug 09 13:23:24 mokomakefile Aug 09 13:23:26 I had it working with a simialr build from 20080806 Aug 09 13:23:36 is taking like .. over 12 hours to setup and compile Aug 09 13:23:40 is that normal? :\ Aug 09 13:23:43 and *that* was broken in other ways. Aug 09 13:23:49 matholio: can you ping your phone? Aug 09 13:23:56 does the ethernet gadget appear Aug 09 13:24:11 I don;t even see it as a device on my usb bus Aug 09 13:24:18 oh Aug 09 13:24:20 I do Aug 09 13:24:38 Dave: i am unable to find it now Aug 09 13:24:41 how th hell can this happen, the hardware is identical for everyone isn't it? Aug 09 13:25:01 :( Aug 09 13:25:01 I have no idea. it's so inconsistent. Aug 09 13:25:12 spdr_: what are you doing? compiling a firmware? Aug 09 13:25:14 must be a nightmare for the devs to debug. Aug 09 13:25:29 mitä kuuluu? Aug 09 13:25:40 kd8ikt, i might be, the last command i executed was before i went to sleep :0 Aug 09 13:25:53 but nearly 12 hours now, wtf ... Aug 09 13:25:55 yeah it takes about 24hrs to compile atleast on my 1.7Ghz laptop it does Aug 09 13:26:02 oh fuck Aug 09 13:26:04 weatherhead: what uboot you got ? Aug 09 13:26:11 matholio: whatever shipped on it Aug 09 13:26:14 im doing it on my laptop too, should have ran it on the xeon :( Aug 09 13:26:20 make openmoko-devel-image? Aug 09 13:26:30 Dave: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1244#comment:31? Aug 09 13:26:33 yeah thats the last thing i did :0 Aug 09 13:26:34 Dave: have you applied the patch? Aug 09 13:26:46 my laptop will soon turn into a fireball. Aug 09 13:26:51 oh yeah give it another 12 hrs and it should be done Aug 09 13:27:02 throw some fans on it Aug 09 13:27:16 hehe, gentoo users are already used to waiting :-) Aug 09 13:27:24 i did, but what about me? how am i supposed to survive this heat :0 Aug 09 13:27:39 now hopefully you respect buildhost.openmoko.org Aug 09 13:27:46 thats DIAF for you Aug 09 13:27:46 :) Aug 09 13:28:06 lindi, yes I applied the patch! Aug 09 13:28:18 I even manually installed it and rebooted the phone several times. Aug 09 13:28:32 Dave: aha Aug 09 13:28:32 It still is disoriented in landscape mode. Aug 09 13:28:41 :( Aug 09 13:28:43 o god..now the sim work... Aug 09 13:28:47 anybody tried xrandr -o 1 on the 2008.8 image? i get an offset bug Aug 09 13:28:51 hey this is a gentoo machine :P Aug 09 13:28:57 Dave: Oh, not here anymore Aug 09 13:29:00 kd8, stay away, ricer! Aug 09 13:29:02 :p Aug 09 13:29:14 alphaone, thanks but your success story isn't helping me much :P Aug 09 13:29:28 Dave: But it's making me feel better :-) Aug 09 13:29:39 Dave: i think we need to first understand how touchscreen is handled at all Aug 09 13:29:49 And current andy branch brings a big speedup in glamo as well Aug 09 13:30:17 is andy one of the paid openmoko guys? Aug 09 13:30:31 ;( Aug 09 13:30:42 yeah Aug 09 13:30:47 i've been hearing about some crazy glamo Nondisclosure stuff Aug 09 13:30:58 Where is the ml thread about this? Aug 09 13:31:12 how do I know which uboot to use? Aug 09 13:31:14 I'd rather see discussion that a "magical fix" that suddenly closes the subject. Aug 09 13:31:20 but hey if he makes good sources with comments ;) we wont need the info he has Aug 09 13:31:23 gta02v4, gta02v5 etc? Aug 09 13:33:39 Dave: reopen the ticked and post your info then Aug 09 13:33:50 *ticket Aug 09 13:35:16 good afternoon Aug 09 13:36:25 I just installed 2008.8 with the images found on the Openmoko wiki... my experience so far: No GPS (without SDcard), no GSM and no wifi. Aug 09 13:37:07 madjo: welcome :D Aug 09 13:37:09 why thank you for the report there madjo Aug 09 13:37:22 hi zogs Aug 09 13:37:31 is that sarcasm? :) Aug 09 13:37:39 ehehe Aug 09 13:38:27 but on my neo with 2008 gsm work..just now Aug 09 13:39:25 It recognizes my sim... because upon starting the dialer, it asks for the PIN, but when I enter that... and try to call someone, it always gives me the message that I don't have service... Aug 09 13:39:45 try to restart X Aug 09 13:39:59 how often do you click the icon to get the dialer to start, btw? :) Aug 09 13:40:10 I rebooted the device a few times. Aug 09 13:48:37 grawr Aug 09 13:49:02 Zorkman, what's my info? Plus reopening the ticket would effectively throw the community back in my face. Aug 09 13:49:11 I'd rather have people standing by :P Aug 09 13:49:24 Who else is still experiencing this issue? Tdobson? Aug 09 13:49:37 which issue is that? Aug 09 13:50:22 anyone here use the 2007.02 as a phone ? Aug 09 13:50:35 I'm inclined to start doing that, spdr_ Aug 09 13:50:56 I..first , now I'm using 2008 (gsm work now on my neo) Aug 09 13:51:02 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1244 Aug 09 13:51:05 That bug :P Aug 09 13:51:14 zogs, did u solve the call quality issues ? Aug 09 13:51:33 didnt people complaint they hear themselves? Aug 09 13:51:36 can't even make a connection :( Aug 09 13:51:39 (echo) Aug 09 13:51:41 with 2008.8 Aug 09 13:51:54 same here madjo, thats why im back on 2007. Aug 09 13:51:59 * Dave bitches at cjb Aug 09 13:52:09 but there are some issues :( Aug 09 13:52:18 "no phone call possible, sim not registered" or some such message Aug 09 13:52:24 I don't have any problem Aug 09 13:52:39 zogs, people dont hear themselves ? Aug 09 13:52:52 madjo: restart -> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1765 Aug 09 13:52:54 or perhaps they just dont complaint about it :) Aug 09 13:53:43 but I rebooted the device already several times Aug 09 13:53:57 isn't that enough? Aug 09 13:54:05 madjo, i dont have that problem, my dialer just crashes, along with X Aug 09 13:54:27 btw, the pin dialog does appear and it is recognized Aug 09 13:55:17 haha hear themselves Aug 09 13:55:25 Zorkman, boo you :p Aug 09 13:55:38 Dave: ? Aug 09 13:55:48 lindi!? Aug 09 13:56:48 I can't use opkg in 2008.8, is that correct? I het the following message: "* Could not obtain administrative lock" Aug 09 13:57:50 Blalien: http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Could%20not%20obtain%20administrative%20lock%22&meta= Aug 09 13:58:33 Blalien: do you have an existing opkg process running ? Aug 09 13:59:15 * Dave throws his freerunner at alphaone Aug 09 13:59:40 Dave: Thanks, I'm still lacking an MP freerunner :-) Aug 09 13:59:50 bah :p Aug 09 13:59:52 fix it please :) Aug 09 14:00:03 err, what? Aug 09 14:00:08 heehee Aug 09 14:00:14 matholio: As far as I know, I don't have an running opkg process. Aug 09 14:00:15 The landscape orientation :D Aug 09 14:00:29 The patch had no visible effect on my GTK freerunner :[ Aug 09 14:00:35 Dave: it is fixed in latest glamo commit Aug 09 14:00:39 I've tried a number of solutions as well. Aug 09 14:00:46 Yeah fixed, for some! Aug 09 14:00:50 hmm Aug 09 14:00:53 Not for everyone it would seem! Aug 09 14:00:58 I'm not alone on this either :p Aug 09 14:01:02 Dave: i think we need to figure out how you can run gdb Aug 09 14:01:16 I would be glad to! Aug 09 14:01:25 i would like to run it too :) Aug 09 14:01:26 Then I can dump my data and throw it at you! Aug 09 14:01:31 :] Aug 09 14:01:42 no no, then you can learn to do some debugging too :) Aug 09 14:01:55 haha, I can debug, but glamo just scares me :) Aug 09 14:01:58 * pjz cheers that mwester got his patches broken up and submitted Aug 09 14:02:07 I'd need someone to hold my hand, or else I'd run away screaming. Aug 09 14:02:11 Dave: what is your xserver-kdrive-glamo version? Aug 09 14:02:15 pjz, yeah that was sweet :) Aug 09 14:03:04 alphaone: 1.3.0.0+gita51364e2f23d4b6331c5ed613ce3f7e15f8e540f-r6 Aug 09 14:03:08 my debugging ideas: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-August/000955.html Aug 09 14:03:53 how can I check the gsm status from the command line? Aug 09 14:04:40 Lindi, cool :) Aug 09 14:05:04 I'd have to set that up... crud Aug 09 14:05:59 Dave: try installing this manually: Aug 09 14:06:23 http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/openembedded-build/glibc/ipk/armv4t/xserver-kdrive-glamo_1.3.0.0+gitr4147f80c0bfedaff7749bccbd1e1d566dee0e04c-r1_armv4t.ipk Aug 09 14:07:05 Dave: the gita51...0f-r6 thing is way old Aug 09 14:07:11 And does not include that patch Aug 09 14:07:59 Dave: I believe OE is being picky there because the xglamo packages aren't using the gitr- scheme correctly Aug 09 14:08:28 my freerunner (running default firmware) appears to not want to recieve SMS. Sending SMS, sending/recieveing calls work, but no SMSes arrive. Any clue what might be wrong or where to start checking for errors? Aug 09 14:10:37 i'm on the new 2008 image. but i fail to get DNS working... i set /etc/resolv.conf to a correct value. any ideas? used to work with older images... Aug 09 14:10:43 madjo: for 2008 and gsm try to restart X with /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart and pin-dialog appear Aug 09 14:11:03 the pin-dialog did appear Aug 09 14:11:10 and it accepted the pin I entered Aug 09 14:11:13 but then nothing happens Aug 09 14:11:13 hey all. I'm having the same problem as this guy - http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td681714 Aug 09 14:11:16 any suggestions Aug 09 14:11:17 ? Aug 09 14:11:23 okay, last time i try this ... WiFi on 2007.02, anybody? :((( Aug 09 14:11:27 It simply won't connect to the network Aug 09 14:11:30 lol Aug 09 14:11:33 if I want restart X on my moko-terminal? Aug 09 14:11:35 same question spdr_ Aug 09 14:11:50 wifi under 2007.2 worked for me, spdr_ Aug 09 14:11:51 except i'm on 2008.8 Aug 09 14:12:01 same for me, but not on 2008.8 Aug 09 14:12:12 ajbrun, big diff Aug 09 14:12:25 well actually, it could see it, but i couldn't get it to actually connect Aug 09 14:12:49 on 2008 i didnt find any networks, on 2007 i just cant connect :\ Aug 09 14:12:58 then yes Aug 09 14:13:02 same as me exactly Aug 09 14:13:19 on qtopia on the other hand, i can connect and get an ip from dhcp Aug 09 14:13:27 but qtopia has no browser Aug 09 14:13:36 kind of a big joke :0 Aug 09 14:14:10 i wish it atleast had lynx :P Aug 09 14:15:07 ajbrun, what softwares did u try for wifi on 2007 ? Aug 09 14:15:09 spdr__ wifi on qtopia with wpa2? Aug 09 14:15:22 how do I backspace on that keyboard? Aug 09 14:15:23 ping Aug 09 14:15:27 no Aug 09 14:15:30 not that Aug 09 14:15:35 malik1972, nope :\ i actually turned my encryption off in hope 2007 could deal with it Aug 09 14:15:35 because i'd be connected anyway Aug 09 14:15:39 via usb Aug 09 14:15:48 honestly can't remember Aug 09 14:15:57 i think i tried to ping it from my pc Aug 09 14:15:59 madjo: right -> left or left right on virtual keyboard Aug 09 14:16:08 wifi-radar, mofi, Aug 09 14:16:13 no such luck for me Aug 09 14:16:14 and it wasn't showing up on my router Aug 09 14:16:20 so i didn't think it was connected Aug 09 14:16:33 lint-wifi ? Aug 09 14:16:43 btw, still no network... even after I restarted X (but I did get the pin screen, but I always got that screen) Aug 09 14:16:53 i had problems installing a few packages Aug 09 14:16:55 i lost my partition table again on the sdhc card, this s... Aug 09 14:16:56 so no Aug 09 14:17:01 wowo...now my om2008.8 work fine :D Aug 09 14:17:13 but i'm sure it wasn't connected as it wasn't showing up on devices connected to my router Aug 09 14:17:13 zogs, describe fine? :) Aug 09 14:17:27 and what did you use to connect zogs ? Aug 09 14:17:40 could someone help me using dfu-util to flash the neo..? I don't think that the wiki describes it all that good.. Aug 09 14:18:01 Bubbi Aug 09 14:18:04 sudo dfu-util -a rootfs -R -D ~/Desktop/Om2008.8.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 09 14:18:12 sudo dfu-util -a kernel -R -D ~/Desktop/Om2008.8.uImage.bin Aug 09 14:18:19 those seem to work for me Aug 09 14:18:26 Bubbi, describes it good, boot into nand (hold the aux while holding the power to power on) Aug 09 14:18:31 and do what he just said :) Aug 09 14:18:53 spdr_: Shouldn't it be NOR..? the wiki says NOR... Aug 09 14:19:00 Nor Aug 09 14:19:01 yeah Aug 09 14:19:06 i always mix them :S Aug 09 14:19:16 can anyone reach openembedded.org ? Aug 09 14:19:20 dont think it really matters, but some here say its safer Aug 09 14:19:25 hold the AUX button, and then press the power button Aug 09 14:19:37 ajbrun: Thank you. It's just that the wiki says "dfu-util -a altsetting -R -D file_name" and the altsetting doesn't really tell me much.. Aug 09 14:19:48 but I can just write rootfs and kernel.. great Aug 09 14:19:53 alternate setting Aug 09 14:20:00 :) Aug 09 14:20:09 Bubbi, if you scroll a bit down ... Aug 09 14:20:33 ah, you have to read it all too..? :D Aug 09 14:20:54 well, I did, but it's always good to get some help, when you are really new to this thing.. Aug 09 14:21:00 hmmm, how do I set OM2008.8 in landscape mode? Aug 09 14:21:08 but thanks guys Aug 09 14:25:15 hello Aug 09 14:25:24 hi dsl2674 Aug 09 14:25:31 is it possible to flash the 2008.8 on the neo1973? Aug 09 14:26:25 alphaone, hrm, okay :) Aug 09 14:26:41 Dave: works? Aug 09 14:26:41 ?? Aug 09 14:26:42 someone here said that it worked for hir... :) Aug 09 14:26:49 Well, it's installing :) Aug 09 14:27:00 dsl2674, someone here said that it worked... but I don't have a Neo1973 Aug 09 14:27:05 I should just be able to restartx, correct? Aug 09 14:27:35 ok, thanksrco|, Aug 09 14:28:16 i think i just wait a week and then i hofe i can found something in the wiki Aug 09 14:28:37 thanks for help.. byebye Aug 09 14:28:46 oh yeah, who's the commie-nazi who's in charge of the apps maintaining for gtk? :p Aug 09 14:29:24 I also have to replace the sound scheme Aug 09 14:29:26 huh... 2008.8 doesn't have iface? Aug 09 14:29:33 I don't think there is Dave. Aug 09 14:29:59 Hmm, okay Aug 09 14:30:06 Ainulindale, actually, it's rather funny Aug 09 14:30:16 "haha" then Aug 09 14:30:19 At first the pointer tap click sound was just a nuisance Aug 09 14:30:20 ajbrun, spdr_: What if I can't really get the dfu-util to work..? the wiki suggests to write 'dfu-util -l', but when I do that, it just responds "Command not found". I've shut the neo down, disconnected the cable, turned it on in NOR flash and inserted the USB cable and wrote the dfu-util command Aug 09 14:30:23 but now it's actually a bug Aug 09 14:30:24 haha Aug 09 14:30:40 I'll be glad to submit a complaint or better yet a fix, later today :) Aug 09 14:30:46 lol Aug 09 14:30:53 Bubbi, did u install dfu-util ? Aug 09 14:31:00 oh, there's another bug Aug 09 14:31:05 what linux distro are you running ? Aug 09 14:31:56 spdr_: I'm using ubuntu. I've successfully used it earlier, but well. it's some time ago and I don't know exactly how to use it.. :) Aug 09 14:32:19 I've used it before to flash the neo, but I can't remember what to do exactly Aug 09 14:32:32 alphaone, thanks, that fixed it, but there appears to be a bug --> when coming out of locked screen (not sleep), it turns the screen back to portrait mode, this is presumably done because the lock application (screensaver) requires a portrait display (but afterwards I would think it should restore state) Aug 09 14:32:43 or at least force the screensaver into landscape mode :D Aug 09 14:32:51 omg Aug 09 14:33:15 alphaone, the glamo patch you provided for me DID work, however now, after screensaver, it's back to it's old tricks... :( Aug 09 14:33:24 Dave: okay, better report that then Aug 09 14:33:26 hmm Aug 09 14:33:29 fuck Aug 09 14:33:43 Bubbi, notice the private message Aug 09 14:33:45 oh god Aug 09 14:33:48 Dave: Try issuing xrandr -o 0 manually Aug 09 14:33:55 ok, I can get wifi to work under 2008.8 (just not via the gui) Aug 09 14:34:21 alphaone, when it's messed up? Aug 09 14:34:43 yeah Aug 09 14:34:45 madjo, mind writing a bash script for that? :P Aug 09 14:34:54 That usually fixed things for me Aug 09 14:35:01 well it's just for my own network... which is unprotected Aug 09 14:35:06 because after the screensaver screen it became miscalibrated again; I then swapped orientations twice, returned to the home screen, then back to my app, and it worked properly again Aug 09 14:35:22 madjo, works for me heh Aug 09 14:35:26 I'm waiting for it to screensaver (lock) again so I can repeat the behavior :) Aug 09 14:35:33 i turned my encryption off too :( Aug 09 14:35:54 but I entered something like this: ifconfig eth0 up Aug 09 14:35:54 iwconfig eth0 essid any Aug 09 14:35:54 iwconfig eth0 key '...' Aug 09 14:35:54 iwconfig eth0 essid '...' Aug 09 14:35:54 udhcpc eth0 Aug 09 14:35:55 ifconfig usb0 down; ifconfig usb0 up Aug 09 14:36:08 ifconfig madj0 down Aug 09 14:36:24 what is the best GPS navigation software at the moment? Aug 09 14:36:28 though I omitted the second and third line :) Aug 09 14:36:34 tangoGPS Aug 09 14:36:48 Blalien - www.tangogps.org Aug 09 14:37:03 Dave: Then I will be giving that a try. Thanks. Aug 09 14:37:06 haha, alphaone, it's pretty bad Aug 09 14:37:27 thanks madjo, ill try it myself, once i reflash om2008 to my SD Aug 09 14:37:41 anyone know of a terminal application for the 2008.8? Aug 09 14:37:42 :) Aug 09 14:38:15 (btw, spdr_ that's for WEP or lower) :) Aug 09 14:38:17 alphaone, both x AND y coordinates appear to be messed up after unlocking the screensver Aug 09 14:38:37 I did xrandr -o 0, which fixed the X coordinate, but Y is still off Aug 09 14:38:39 wep is just like nothing Aug 09 14:38:48 besides the 3 min crack time :p Aug 09 14:38:56 at least when in both orientations :( Aug 09 14:39:01 gah Aug 09 14:39:12 that's why mine is unprotected, but unlisted Aug 09 14:39:24 I have a DS that I sometimes use to game over the internet Aug 09 14:39:29 and the DS can't handle WPA Aug 09 14:39:46 closing the application I was using swapping orientations and relaunching seems to fix the problem however :( Aug 09 14:39:51 :) Aug 09 14:40:00 Something must be messing up when the screensaver comes out of itself o_O Aug 09 14:40:04 how do you swap orientation? dave Aug 09 14:40:35 oh my god Aug 09 14:41:01 alphaone, when in landscape mode, in an app, if I open the power menu, after dismissing it, the entire pointer calibration is thrown off Aug 09 14:41:07 * Dave rips his hair out Aug 09 14:43:16 Dave: I only tried xrandr with fso-image... Aug 09 14:44:16 oh Aug 09 14:44:25 well, it seems to have fun in GTK ~_~ Aug 09 14:44:51 It seems to work, but any subsequent menu action seems to break all the nicities that were perfected by it. Aug 09 14:45:15 although when I did it, it fixed my X coord, but then after swapping from L to P, it messed up my Y coordinate :D Aug 09 14:45:39 strange Aug 09 14:45:43 yeah, it is Aug 09 14:45:56 huh? gdb comes default with om2007.02 ?? Aug 09 14:45:57 It is not only disturbing but exceedingly frustrating as well :( Aug 09 14:51:37 where are the icons on the main screen stored in 2008.8? Aug 09 14:52:18 actually the .desktop files I mean Aug 09 14:54:45 does tangogps have a config file, the kbd in 2008.8 gets me crazy... Aug 09 14:58:27 oh wow Aug 09 14:58:40 I just found a decent second use for the freerunner - hah! Aug 09 14:58:52 which is that? Aug 09 14:58:53 It's pitiful in its design but fairly effective :) Aug 09 14:59:09 Well, it'd make a decent small [digital] music box. Aug 09 14:59:19 ahoi Aug 09 14:59:20 because sound reverberates through it rather well Aug 09 14:59:29 So it sucks for real sound production Aug 09 14:59:55 but for say, a nice piece played by a music box in it on a fairly normal sound level when set on a table, sounds pretty good :P Aug 09 14:59:58 haha Aug 09 15:02:53 anyone using fso? Aug 09 15:04:21 my freerunner (running default firmware) appears to not want to recieve SMS. Sending SMS, sending/recieveing calls work, but no SMSes arrive. Any clue what might be wrong or where to start checking for errors? Aug 09 15:07:30 hmmm Aug 09 15:07:35 whats the name of the other keyboard ? Aug 09 15:07:40 the one with / and stuff ? Aug 09 15:07:46 for om2007.02 that is Aug 09 15:12:18 is anyone using the agps perl script> Aug 09 15:12:41 spdr_, matchbox-keyboard I think Aug 09 15:13:19 yeah i think thats it, thanks Aug 09 15:13:39 hello Aug 09 15:14:15 Do you think it is possible that the OpenMoko team could use the N-trig Touchscreen for the next Neo Aug 09 15:18:26 better ask them :) Aug 09 15:18:38 you can always suggest it on the hardware mailing list Aug 09 15:24:13 ok, then i post it there Aug 09 15:27:13 Nanotron: maybe you also want to ask it to these people: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoForesight Aug 09 15:29:47 are these the people who test the hardware ? Aug 09 15:29:57 *future hardware Aug 09 15:30:15 but hardware list will be most usefull; they probably read that list anyway Aug 09 15:30:56 have you the link to the hardware list? Aug 09 15:33:36 Nanotron: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/hardware Aug 09 15:34:28 thx Aug 09 15:34:39 np Aug 09 15:35:04 how exactly does the trick of switching batteries while the freerunner is running work? Whenever I remove the battery the freerunner dies, even though the power is connected Aug 09 15:36:30 Hi! Is there an application to change how many mA the Freerunner is charging at? If not, is there a "how to" on the wiki for changing this? Aug 09 15:37:40 TeNoVi: http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=297&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=battery&start=15#p3525 Aug 09 15:38:59 Thanks :D Aug 09 15:39:11 Zero_Dogg: I think it would work if you turned off GSM and disabled charging (don't know if there's software support for this at the moment) Aug 09 15:40:14 mmontour: hrm, the problem is that this is the way the wiki tells me to do it and the battery died even though the charger was in Aug 09 15:41:13 After installing the 2008.8 image, I can't connect via USB without getting a.. discreet warning.. "WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!".. How do I fix that..? It says something about some changes to a "known_hosts" file, but i'm not entirely sure what to do.. Aug 09 15:42:02 bubbi: It should say a line in the known hosts file, go into ~/.ssh/known_hosts and delete the line of that number Aug 09 15:42:04 Should I just delete whatever is in the known_hosts file..? Aug 09 15:42:15 stevenSn: oh okay :) Aug 09 15:43:03 The Wiki of a Million Lies claims another victim. There is some issue with the PMU shutting down when charging is enabled but no battery is present (from the mailing lists, but I don't have a link) Aug 09 15:43:30 stevenSn: thank you, that worked nicely Aug 09 15:46:37 Is there a way to force the keyboard to come up, from the command line? Aug 09 15:49:29 hi all, i'm searching for an new fs and klernel image. On the site http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories there is only OM2007.2 listed, on the site http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/ there is release OM2008.8. what should i take? Aug 09 15:50:08 2007.2 Aug 09 15:51:03 dbmoodb_: can you explain it to me in a short sentence? Aug 09 15:51:16 22its older Aug 09 15:51:25 you will probably perfer it atm Aug 09 15:51:34 Xilent: 2007.2 is essentially what shipped with the phone with some upgrades. 2008.8 is based on Qtopia Aug 09 15:52:26 Om2008.8 was released yesterday. It has shiny new bugs, vs. the boring old bugs in 2007.2. Take your pick. Aug 09 15:53:25 that's a confusing naming strategy Aug 09 15:55:59 I just received my free runner :D, but somehow it doesn't register to my mobile network Aug 09 15:56:14 edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts Aug 09 15:58:36 I'm running FSO milestone 2. when im trying to run opkg upgrade, i receive a seg fault while downloading alsa. any hints? Aug 09 15:58:44 is there a way to add a file with commands to the home menu? Aug 09 15:59:45 grawr Aug 09 16:01:07 anyone any idea why the free runner can't register to my mobile network? Aug 09 16:06:41 can the kernel image be upgraded without upgrading the entire software stack? Aug 09 16:07:14 Zero_Dogg: i think there is would be a problem with kenel modules Aug 09 16:07:41 I figured that might be a problem too Aug 09 16:10:53 freesmartphone.org: 03mail 07framework * rd3b19b6dc1a6 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: Convert ntype to int in SimRetrieveEntry like in SimRetrievePhonebook Aug 09 16:12:26 Zero_Dogg: if there was a way to update the modules too Aug 09 16:13:31 like, install updated modules, reflash kernel Aug 09 16:18:36 using a vodafone SIM card (europe), it's not 3G afaik, and says 'registering' for more then 15 minutes now Aug 09 16:21:04 hi all. Aug 09 16:22:09 yesterday while i was trying to flash the free runner , dfu-util found 2 devices. long story short: i fucked up the bluetooth mouse with it. is there a way to repair it? like flashing it with its "image"? Aug 09 16:23:30 cga: in theory, if you can find the image (download a firmware update from the manufacturer, or maybe find someone with the same model who can dfu-util -U a copy of the image) Aug 09 16:23:55 mmontour, hi =) i try to find the firmware then =) Aug 09 16:23:55 haha, you managed to flash your mouse with freerunner firmware, by mistake?! Aug 09 16:24:30 can you make phone calls with your mouse now/ Aug 09 16:24:31 ? Aug 09 16:24:35 Blastur, not exactely.. i issued the dfu-util -a to backup the kernel on that device and it fucked it Aug 09 16:24:40 lol russellb Aug 09 16:24:45 that'd be way cool Aug 09 16:24:57 next, flash your freerunner with the mouse firmware Aug 09 16:25:01 lol Aug 09 16:25:13 though, i think not even freerunner can place a call yet.. right? :) Aug 09 16:25:14 ok so i can use it as mouse remote controller Aug 09 16:25:28 Blastur: zing Aug 09 16:29:13 hm, how do I power down wifi again? (on FSO) Aug 09 16:30:40 haha. unlucky cga. Aug 09 16:30:45 how do i get rid of the keyboard in minimo? :0 Aug 09 16:31:04 Pjj: what country are you? I know a little about mobile networks and the freerunner and stuff Aug 09 16:31:12 tdobson, i would say stupid instead Aug 09 16:31:20 cat /etc/version is 200804240820 Aug 09 16:31:26 I'm from the netherlands tdobson Aug 09 16:31:39 cga: well. it's something I would do :P it mademe smile though so :) Aug 09 16:31:54 tdobson, eh =) Aug 09 16:31:59 Pjj: I'm from britain and I'm also having problems Aug 09 16:32:23 Pjj: this is what I would do to try and find out what is going wrong: Aug 09 16:32:54 1) reboot. Aug 09 16:32:54 login via ssh as soon as you can (by usb) Aug 09 16:32:57 hrr, can't work out how to turn off wifi :/ Aug 09 16:33:21 3) run "libgsmd-tool -m atcmd" Aug 09 16:33:28 and then leave it a while Aug 09 16:33:34 ok Aug 09 16:33:52 it seems to print out any errors the gsm stuff encounters Aug 09 16:34:05 it may be helpful Aug 09 16:34:14 many links from the wiki don't work anymore, but i'm too new to freerunner to find the correct new locations Aug 09 16:34:40 Xilent: what are you looking for? what doesn't work ? :) Aug 09 16:35:38 spdr_: I haven't found any way to get rid of the keyboard in minimo. if you find a way, I'd love to know :) Aug 09 16:35:43 charging my freerunner atm (no idea how to see when it's fully charged though) after it I'll figure out how to connect by SSH and see if those messages can get me any further tdobson :), thanks for replying btw, it was rather silent here with a pretty important question with so many people around :p Aug 09 16:36:21 my freerunner arrived today, and i'm looking for new images, , my version is 200804240820, and my calendar is not working Aug 09 16:37:30 Pjj: it only affects a few people and it's quite unusual. if you want any help with connecting via ssh just say so, but I think that is the best help I can give. good luck ! :) Aug 09 16:37:41 by the way, in the terminal i can't make an / Aug 09 16:38:04 thanks tdobson :) Aug 09 16:38:29 Xilent: ah yes the terminal thing is a problem, when you get updated it will be solved I think (I think press 0 a few times) solves it now?) Aug 09 16:38:40 Xilent: anyway. images. one minute :) Aug 09 16:38:44 Pjj: np Aug 09 16:40:14 Xilent: this was the file system image I used to flash my freerunner with when I flashed it this morning http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200808/20080808/openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk--20080808-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 09 16:40:59 Xilent: and this is the kernel image :http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200808/20080808/uImage-2.6.24+git31+241f69c55ee8f5dd067ebd2d51aa9fdedb212759-r2-om-gta02.bin Aug 09 16:41:17 you can find out more about flashing the neo here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Aug 09 16:41:28 Xilent: but are you *sure* you want to flash it? Aug 09 16:42:01 my neo just ate my 4gb sd card. Aug 09 16:42:08 my personal advice would be to get an internet connection and then install the updates for your current image http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Aug 09 16:42:08 stupid ext2. Aug 09 16:42:14 xhrit: tasty :P Aug 09 16:42:14 xhrit: yeah happened to me too Aug 09 16:42:20 lame. Aug 09 16:42:31 how do i fix it? i have never used ext2. Aug 09 16:42:45 * tdobson isn't sure Aug 09 16:42:49 ext2 = old. reiserfs is killer tho. Aug 09 16:42:54 ;) Aug 09 16:43:09 s/fs// Aug 09 16:43:21 lol Aug 09 16:43:37 tdobson: why no't it's fresh and empty Aug 09 16:43:50 tdobson: thx for the links Aug 09 16:44:35 that is going to be a show stopper if everytime i suspend i have to reformat my sd card. Aug 09 16:45:37 Xilent: this is what I used to setup my freerunner this morning - http://dpaste.com/70369/ - it's a short script I wrote that installs a load of useful stuff... it's not my fault if it breaks your neo or OS or anything, and there are several things which it doesn't do but it may be a bit helpful... :) Aug 09 16:49:16 Pjj: this is what I get when I test the freerunner with different sim cards: http://dpaste.com/70370/ # I'm testing it with lots of sim cards to find out what errors are "normal".... Aug 09 16:49:39 ok Aug 09 16:49:46 hm my free runner doesn't seem to boot :S Aug 09 16:49:56 Pjj: try again Aug 09 16:50:06 I did Aug 09 16:50:14 I mean it doesn't start up Aug 09 16:50:22 take the battery out Aug 09 16:51:10 wait 10 then try again -- plug it in as wel Aug 09 16:51:10 hm I did that, but did it again, this time it worked :) Aug 09 16:51:30 thx good tip ;) Aug 09 16:53:30 ... Aug 09 16:59:46 tdobson: you never managed to fix your card? Aug 09 17:01:13 xhrit: sim card? Aug 09 17:01:38 sd memory card. Aug 09 17:01:45 * tdobson has no issues with micro sd cards :/ Aug 09 17:01:53 oh. Aug 09 17:02:09 sorry :( Aug 09 17:02:09 well that is what i am having issues with. Aug 09 17:02:30 I know. the only thin I'm having problems with is my sim card :( Aug 09 17:02:47 oh. Aug 09 17:03:09 look at the back ov teh sim card and tell me if the chip is centered or offset. Aug 09 17:03:32 pjj u have at&t? Aug 09 17:03:55 lol Aug 09 17:04:00 linuxxr: he has vodafone europe (netherlands) Aug 09 17:04:01 thats right Aug 09 17:04:01 and if it is offset, tell me if the metal clips that hold the sim in place are touching teh chip and shorting it out. Aug 09 17:04:06 oo Aug 09 17:04:22 thats right too Aug 09 17:04:22 xhrit: 1 min Aug 09 17:04:37 man, that keyboard is fuking fast ( if youre english ).. Aug 09 17:04:55 but i want the qwerty button on top-left back and the terminal keyboard Aug 09 17:05:02 but i like that.. t9 qwerty thing Aug 09 17:05:24 leave the sim in ancheck the tab grounding the contact on the sim Aug 09 17:06:24 with the latch open Aug 09 17:10:11 I think it is making contact Aug 09 17:11:34 xhrit: it could be a metal clip touching the chip Aug 09 17:11:50 thetab is tuoching the sim contact? Aug 09 17:12:09 1 min - photo Aug 09 17:12:38 xkrit? Aug 09 17:12:50 ?? Aug 09 17:12:52 the known issues on the 2008.8 wiki page seem so discouraging Aug 09 17:12:52 what is the max size for the microsd Aug 09 17:12:55 linuxxr: yeah Aug 09 17:13:17 get a different sim dont try to tape it either Aug 09 17:13:23 i log in as xhr17 from my workstation Aug 09 17:13:32 oo Aug 09 17:13:41 ok Aug 09 17:13:47 i remember Aug 09 17:14:37 the contacts need to be nearly centered on the paoer Aug 09 17:14:43 paper Aug 09 17:15:05 Xilent: there is no max size limit on the FR ... however, largest cards available are 8gb at the moment Aug 09 17:15:20 ... well, the max size may be the 32gb limit of the microsd standard.. Aug 09 17:15:24 ieatlint: you could nfs / other Aug 09 17:15:40 ? Aug 09 17:16:23 one could set up nfs, yeah... but i'd regard it as quite unreliable... at a minimum, you'd want to run it with tcp Aug 09 17:16:40 but you're better off with something that has real security and works on a distributed basis... like AFS Aug 09 17:16:42 linuxxr, heh you misspelled xhrit's nick ;) Aug 09 17:16:49 .. hilighting me instead ^^ Aug 09 17:17:07 me soorryy Aug 09 17:17:34 where is the qwerty button hidden in 2008.8 ? Aug 09 17:18:15 Bish: is that the one they removed and everyone made a fuss about? Aug 09 17:18:32 zash: yup Aug 09 17:18:37 linuxxr xhrit: http://files.tdobson.net/P8060001.JPG http://files.tdobson.net/P8060002.JPG http://files.tdobson.net/P8060003.JPG Aug 09 17:18:54 do you think that contact is making a difference Aug 09 17:18:56 looks like there is a package to install an alternate edj so you can have qwerty button. haven't tried it yet though Aug 09 17:18:57 :DD Aug 09 17:19:25 i really like the new keyboard, its great for fast typing smes, without worriing, if u hit the right point Aug 09 17:19:26 are steps online on how to make a map package for diversity? i'm going on a trip and want to preload maps Aug 09 17:19:37 but why the fuc they removed the terminal keyboard Aug 09 17:21:26 Bish: flick your finger up or down on the keyboard to get the symbols and numbers Aug 09 17:21:47 yeah i know, but i want a keyboard without that.. t9-like thingy Aug 09 17:21:50 it would be nicer if your going to type words letter by letter they shorten the recognition time Aug 09 17:22:26 SirBob1701: but this is slow and annoying Aug 09 17:22:39 ya it needs work alot haha Aug 09 17:22:41 SirBob1701: why can u have both.. this t9-like keyboard and the .. qwerty Aug 09 17:22:55 hi. I'm having troubles with setting up iptables rules on the FreeRunner to enable my laptop to use the GPRS connection Aug 09 17:22:59 and why the f. did they remove the qwerty button :P Aug 09 17:23:01 Bish: try installing the alternate edj via assassin. i think it has the other keyboard Aug 09 17:23:11 SirBob1701: really? Aug 09 17:23:13 oh cool Aug 09 17:23:18 there's no MASQUERADE target from what I can tell Aug 09 17:23:22 i know for sure it has the qwerty button Aug 09 17:23:30 and SNAT didn't really work :P Aug 09 17:23:35 Bish: let me know if it messes up the ui alot haha Aug 09 17:23:40 :D Aug 09 17:23:50 do u mean .. illume-config ? SirBob1701 ? Aug 09 17:24:11 installing illume-config was pretty painless, and gave back the keyboard button Aug 09 17:24:15 Bish: yup Aug 09 17:24:28 does anyone know if there is a site for diversity. Aug 09 17:24:42 ? i want to make a map package and maybe write an app to make it easy for people to do so Aug 09 17:24:44 does any one actualy know what it does Aug 09 17:25:16 SirBob1701: the only bad thing about 2008.8.. is that they removed the best things.. but nobody knows why Aug 09 17:25:39 Bish: this sean guy seems to be a massive wanker is why i think Aug 09 17:25:41 oh, must have been something else. It works now Aug 09 17:25:47 i think somebody is JACKING AROUND with us Aug 09 17:26:10 supressing things on purpose Aug 09 17:26:14 they want to rewrite everything from scratch i think. but really thats not what happens in the real world. Aug 09 17:26:28 rofl Aug 09 17:26:43 SirBob1701: sean is the man who got openmoko up and running Aug 09 17:26:53 it can be the only answer imho Aug 09 17:27:01 diversity is written by the paid openmoko guys in taipei Aug 09 17:27:07 byt im a noob Aug 09 17:27:32 SirBob1701: :D Aug 09 17:27:43 SirBob1701: how to use illume config oo? Aug 09 17:27:43 tomboy64: did you read his ting on openmoko design? Aug 09 17:27:49 linuxxr: i agree with you sorry ... 2007.2 was so close to being useab;e and thenn... Aug 09 17:27:53 Bish: it'll need a reboot Aug 09 17:28:02 he's a marketing guy Aug 09 17:28:05 i was not fond of 2008.8 Aug 09 17:28:15 he knows less about design than i do :-P Aug 09 17:28:19 (it's better to use shutdown instead of reboot from the command line) Aug 09 17:28:21 tomboy64: i hate marketing guys haha Aug 09 17:28:25 what exactly do you mean? Aug 09 17:28:39 ? Aug 09 17:28:52 19:27| tomboy64: did you read his ting on openmoko design? Aug 09 17:29:02 tomboy64: hold on let me find it for you Aug 09 17:29:07 what exactly do you mean? i don't follow much of his writings Aug 09 17:29:07 booting with. boots.. ha .. ha.. this joke gets annoying after watching it 1293293 times booting Aug 09 17:29:17 im no marketing guy Aug 09 17:29:27 i am :_ Aug 09 17:29:32 linuxxr == sean ? Aug 09 17:29:42 nope Aug 09 17:29:57 oh ok Aug 09 17:29:59 SirBob1701: what about this "sean" Aug 09 17:30:15 im just a linux noob from arkansas Aug 09 17:30:22 this isn't our scene Aug 09 17:30:23 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2008-July/000022.html Aug 09 17:30:51 holy shiat Aug 09 17:31:10 oh thanks SirBob1701 Aug 09 17:31:20 anyone know where I can get a lint-wifi pkg? Aug 09 17:31:22 Bish: you get that new edj working? Aug 09 17:31:53 new edj? Aug 09 17:31:58 i just installet illume config Aug 09 17:32:00 seems to be working Aug 09 17:32:07 qwerty button is back Aug 09 17:32:12 but still shitty keyboards , there :D Aug 09 17:32:34 taskmanager, what the. f Aug 09 17:32:36 Bish: that package installed a new .edj file which is an illume interface file Aug 09 17:32:37 err Aug 09 17:32:43 "Theme" file haha Aug 09 17:32:51 yeah sure, i do understand Aug 09 17:32:54 i will use qtopia untill u guys get the polishing done Aug 09 17:33:00 but keyboard is the same, uh? Aug 09 17:33:06 on 2008.8 Aug 09 17:33:24 how can I connect to another running terminal session on my comp? Aug 09 17:33:25 It's going to be the social practices Aug 09 17:33:34 they make possible. YEAH WHEN THEY LEARN SOME Aug 09 17:33:35 SirBob1701: can u tell me where the wordlist is? Aug 09 17:33:52 :) Aug 09 17:34:00 Bish: not right away gimme a minute to see if i can find out. I got stuff i want to add to it too actually Aug 09 17:34:13 SirBob1701: the t9-like keyboard is great for sms'es , but its english, and im a german grammar nazi Aug 09 17:34:18 SirBob1701: thanks man, very polite Aug 09 17:34:49 meh i take some of that back Aug 09 17:35:43 Bish: i think it might be /usr/share/dict/words Aug 09 17:35:50 wanna help me see if it is ? haha Aug 09 17:36:43 SirBob1701: sure :) Aug 09 17:38:14 so I installed openmoko-mediaplayer2 last night on my ASU build, and now i have the "audio disappearing on resume" problem I used to get on the 2007.2 build.....I assume this is because it installed pulse-audio. Does anyone know of a patch to fix this, or what packages I need to remove to get my sound on resume back? Aug 09 17:38:57 SirBob1701: i find this essay highly inspirating Aug 09 17:39:20 SirBob1701: the words are not odered by .. useage? Aug 09 17:39:44 Bish: looks like alphabetical lookup Aug 09 17:39:50 haha funny. Aug 09 17:39:59 tomboy64: guess i'm odd then haha Aug 09 17:40:21 SirBob1701: that's great Aug 09 17:40:22 SirBob1701: but i agree it's different from anything what would be useful to a programmer. Aug 09 17:40:26 now tell me, where do i get a german one :p Aug 09 17:40:31 is there an easy way to de package opk's on a desktop without ipkg? Aug 09 17:40:45 Bish: haha hmmm Aug 09 17:41:14 SirBob1701: im already googlin it Aug 09 17:41:29 its an ar archive Aug 09 17:41:31 would be great, if it works, can type fast as hell if you know the qwerty keyboard better then yourself Aug 09 17:42:09 you may try this: rename it to tgz and ... Aug 09 17:43:50 malik1972: thanks :) is there a specific way i have to compress files to make an opk? Aug 09 17:44:32 i also gotta figure out the command line for it if i want to make an app to do this. (i cheated and used archive manager haha) Aug 09 17:45:25 SirBob1701: i replaced it with another wordlist :D Aug 09 17:45:31 now the keboard stopped working :p Aug 09 17:45:34 what is the expected battery life of the FR? Aug 09 17:45:42 varikin: max. 12 h Aug 09 17:45:48 running without suspend, and stuff Aug 09 17:45:54 Bish: hahaha Aug 09 17:46:07 so my 4-6 is low? Aug 09 17:46:38 interesting word i added doesn't come up Aug 09 17:46:45 varikin: .. not really, if youre playing with it all the time Aug 09 17:46:48 had 3 h , sometimes :p Aug 09 17:47:02 4-6 with it sitting on my desk not doing anything Aug 09 17:47:26 Bish: did you back it up? Aug 09 17:47:44 SirBob1701: "words" was just a symlink Aug 09 17:48:12 hmm i didn't notice that Aug 09 17:48:15 whats it link to? Aug 09 17:48:18 i chagned it to a german one, wrote Sauerkraut in it Aug 09 17:48:18 now reboot, i think illume saved the english one Aug 09 17:48:36 american-english, in same folder Aug 09 17:48:49 i see Aug 09 17:48:50 so, the dev's had thoughts about it Aug 09 17:49:02 its a nice idea, but devs need the terminal keyboard, too Aug 09 17:49:13 what's the package for gcc etc? Aug 09 17:49:14 i really like that, i was thinking about a application working like this Aug 09 17:49:20 tdobson: its named.. gcc Aug 09 17:49:28 opkg install gcc gcc-symlinks Aug 09 17:49:28 build-essential? Aug 09 17:49:41 ok. Aug 09 17:49:41 thats how i solved the problem Aug 09 17:50:06 hmm still words i add don't show up Aug 09 17:50:19 SirBob1701: maybe reboard, i dont htink illume is reloading it Aug 09 17:50:21 la la la Aug 09 17:50:33 ya i tried that Aug 09 17:50:34 testing it right now Aug 09 17:51:02 wtf is an .eet file? Aug 09 17:51:02 haha, now the messages app isn working Aug 09 17:51:38 dont know Aug 09 17:51:42 maybe some kind of alienfile Aug 09 17:51:45 i'm starting to think this phone isn't stable Aug 09 17:51:50 its related to diversity Aug 09 17:52:25 its an enlightenment file Aug 09 17:52:44 What's new with you, Sir Bob? Aug 09 17:53:05 SirBob1701: i still got the english one.. strange Aug 09 17:53:10 Dave: ? Aug 09 17:55:39 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Aug 10 17:40 words -> thegermanone Aug 09 17:55:43 SirBob1701: .. this is strange Aug 09 17:55:57 sirbob: diversity images are stored in an eet file Aug 09 17:56:19 malik1972: ya i'm trying to figure out the structure of the .eet so i can make on one my desktop and load it into the phone. Aug 09 17:56:23 sirbob: concerning the opkg/ipkg thing: there should be skripts doing the job for you Aug 09 17:56:26 malik1972: is there a way to open it? Aug 09 17:56:40 SirBob1701: SirBob1701 .. is it possible that the wordlist is compiled-in Aug 09 17:57:03 Bish: i guess it just doesn't see like a good idea. Doesn't allow for configuration at all Aug 09 17:57:11 i'm looking to see if i can find more out Aug 09 17:57:20 sirbob: i dont know, in this moment ia m playing with a tool which converts os2eet Aug 09 17:58:00 malik1972: where did you get ti? Aug 09 17:58:05 sirbob1701: unfortunately the conversion tool is a neo binary Aug 09 17:58:11 o Aug 09 17:58:23 man, my freerunner is rockin' out Aug 09 17:58:29 Dave: why? Aug 09 17:58:34 SirBob1701: would be great Aug 09 17:58:58 om-locations-map-pack Aug 09 17:59:49 malik1972: ya i know i'd rather do it on my desktop cause i have alot of tiles i want to make into a pack. going on a long trip next weekend Aug 09 18:00:15 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2008.8_Locations#Create_Offline_Maps Aug 09 18:00:16 man, you people totally suck this morning. Aug 09 18:00:24 sirbob1701: very goog idea Aug 09 18:00:31 Dave: it's evening :P Aug 09 18:00:34 its evening, Aug 09 18:00:35 yeah Aug 09 18:00:38 save: its night Aug 09 18:01:04 so i installed opemoko-mediaplayer2 yesterday, and now my sound doesnt come back on resume (just like 2007.2...i assume its because of pulseaudio). Does anyone know any fixes and/or what packages i need to uninstall to get the audio coming back on resume again? Aug 09 18:01:07 malik1972: ya it looks like that page makes you do it on the phone is my only problem. where as if i actually pull the maps on my desktop from openstreetmaps and pack them i can just get a gps lock and go Aug 09 18:01:20 save , lol are u typing with the illume keyboard :D? Aug 09 18:01:36 Pyrasi: look an mwesters page, he wrote an fix/workaround, i used it when i had 2007.2 Aug 09 18:01:54 i think it was mwester Aug 09 18:02:03 it mentions not to try that on any other builds other than gtk on that one though =/ Aug 09 18:02:15 sirbob1701: a desktop tool doing this would be great Aug 09 18:02:20 i know Aug 09 18:02:20 i will forget the mokomediaplayer Aug 09 18:02:28 think i will install something like mpd Aug 09 18:02:49 alphaone: could you consider adding python-pygtk to your repository? I didn't find anything as usable as fso with working python+gtk... Aug 09 18:03:11 sirbob1701: i dont know if and when this conversion tool will finish Aug 09 18:03:13 malik1972: i'm trying to get info on the .eet file cause i can write something to do it if all the tools are standard Aug 09 18:05:04 hmm Aug 09 18:05:07 SirBob1701: .. seems like the wordlist in /usr/share/dict/ is not the one , which is used by illue Aug 09 18:05:15 i even removed the files, and its still there Aug 09 18:05:27 how are the plans about asu ui vs old gtk based ui ? Aug 09 18:05:39 ronny: gtk wont be langer supported. Aug 09 18:05:47 or.. it will be supported but there wont be any gtk image Aug 09 18:05:51 (cause the asu thing is really crappy) Aug 09 18:05:59 yeah asu is crappy Aug 09 18:06:01 but illume rox Aug 09 18:06:05 brb gotta poop :D Aug 09 18:06:12 i dont like qtopia but it's most useable Aug 09 18:06:37 hmm, its really not nice how broken everything currently is :/ Aug 09 18:07:03 ronny: .. its better than before, and its in developement Aug 09 18:07:09 and.. asu is the most useable image ever Aug 09 18:07:12 whats your problem :D? Aug 09 18:07:53 kd8ikt, thanks! Aug 09 18:08:01 i hoped it would be at least possible to do a pim-sync to a computer, or dont life in fear that a kernel-update may temporary brick the device Aug 09 18:08:31 cause without at least one of those i just cant use my moko as phone yet Aug 09 18:09:19 ronny: it's very hard to brick. just don't mess with uboot Aug 09 18:09:36 i'm fairly pleased with the vcard import on 2007.2, granted it requires a ton of python packages to be installed but once there it works pretty fast Aug 09 18:09:43 ronny: have a look at qtopia for something which is more phonelike than anything else Aug 09 18:10:22 ronny: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions#Qtopia Aug 09 18:10:41 what the fuck is ninja xD Aug 09 18:10:41 the evil twin of assasin? Aug 09 18:10:44 ronny: install qtopia, thats fine for your needs, syncing with desktop may also work Aug 09 18:11:44 malik1972: how do you sync qtopia with a desktop? Aug 09 18:11:53 * tdobson is considering dualbooting qtopia with 2007.2..... and possibly tri booting if it's possible with 2008.8... Aug 09 18:12:05 ASU works fine, xD Aug 09 18:12:20 weatherhead: there is some software from qtopia for the desktop. I'm not sure exactly Aug 09 18:12:33 tdobson: I spent a lot of hours the other day trying to make it work.... Aug 09 18:12:41 haha Aug 09 18:12:53 if you work it out, please tell someone else :P Aug 09 18:12:59 maybe the opensync plugin for opie still works with newer qtopia, but I couldn't do it Aug 09 18:14:17 DOES SOMEONE KNOW WHERE ILLUME KEYBOARD, GETS HIS WORDLIST FROM? Aug 09 18:14:25 incidentally does anyone have wifi working on ASU out of the box? Aug 09 18:14:28 CAPS LOCK FURY ! Aug 09 18:14:29 mine just says "wifi unknown" Aug 09 18:14:41 weatherhead: evry does thaat Aug 09 18:14:48 Bish: how do I fix it Aug 09 18:14:54 weatherhead: there is no fix Aug 09 18:14:55 I used a development image like yesterday that worked ok Aug 09 18:15:01 its not implented , yet Aug 09 18:15:09 weatherhead: I haven't heard of anyone say how easy it was to get wifi working in 2008.8.... so... Aug 09 18:15:10 weatherhead: yeah but its not in stable ASU Aug 09 18:15:25 tdobson: really? Aug 09 18:15:27 it's *stable*. it just lacks features Aug 09 18:15:27 yesterday, it saw my network let me put in my wpa key and then connected Aug 09 18:15:30 tdobson: with the illume Aug 09 18:15:43 also, USB networking seems not to work Aug 09 18:15:46 * tdobson doesn't know Aug 09 18:15:57 it worked for me Aug 09 18:16:00 weatherhead: with qtopia desktop? Aug 09 18:16:11 weatherhead: does your resolv.conf have real dns servers in it? Aug 09 18:16:20 weatherhead: http://trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qtopia/desktopdownloads Aug 09 18:16:34 SirBob1701: will u notify mee, if you know something new? Aug 09 18:16:45 sirbob1701: the conversion tools crashe on the neo Aug 09 18:16:54 Bish: yup Aug 09 18:16:58 malik1972: hmm Aug 09 18:17:22 malik1972: i have to see if there is a tool or script to make .eet files and or open them. Aug 09 18:17:46 "RPM for suse 8.2" that's ridiculous :p Aug 09 18:17:54 the neo will kill me Aug 09 18:18:03 malik1972: http://docs.enlightenment.org/api/eet/html/ Aug 09 18:18:08 weatherhead: hehe Aug 09 18:18:08 SirBob1701: how was the line in the interfaces configurationfile Aug 09 18:18:14 SirBob1701: I have no idea, I can't ssh into it Aug 09 18:18:18 up nameserver 192.168.178.x > /etc/resolv.conf Aug 09 18:18:18 ? Aug 09 18:19:21 sirbob1701: lets do it Aug 09 18:20:08 Has anyone here hooked up a USB keyboard to their FR? Aug 09 18:20:18 malik1972: do what? Aug 09 18:20:19 lol Aug 09 18:20:50 do the conversion on the pc Aug 09 18:21:04 malik1972: well, i'd like to hack things in pygtk on the phone, that doesnt work with qtopia at all Aug 09 18:21:35 malik1972: ya i'm reading this page. to see how fast i can do it Aug 09 18:21:49 retracile: it has been done here : http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080716 Aug 09 18:22:01 I have used my bluetooth keyboard with mine Aug 09 18:23:09 Tig|: I was following the instructions on the wiki page pointed to by that page. Aug 09 18:23:18 retracile: ah :) Aug 09 18:23:30 Tig|: (and not having any luck :( ) Aug 09 18:23:34 me i edit all config and data on another computer then i transfer onto the fr, i kinda gave up interfacing with the thing Aug 09 18:24:28 ronny: i understand, but you may use qtopia on nand fpr daily usage and hack 200x.y on sd for your applications Aug 09 18:25:35 I even tried going through a powered usb hub, but still no luck. :/ Aug 09 18:26:02 malik1972: well, i dont have a spare phone to use while on hacking images Aug 09 18:26:13 (There is a possibility I got the cables mixed up, so I'll go through the whole process again to be sure.) Aug 09 18:26:31 malik1972: and the ussue with contract-db sync is a pain Aug 09 18:26:34 *issue Aug 09 18:27:00 retracile: I wonder if there is something GTA01 specific in those instructions :/ Aug 09 18:27:50 as USB has changed slightly between the two models Aug 09 18:28:02 ronny: do you really need a daily sync for your contacts? you may write an easy script for im/exporting vcf/ics or whatever, this should work Aug 09 18:28:07 so let me get this straight, is there any way of getting USB networking going under 2008.08? Aug 09 18:28:20 the GTA01 did not have a powered port but the GTA02 does Aug 09 18:28:28 the trivial answer is "yes, of course" Aug 09 18:28:41 without going into the spesifics of "how" Aug 09 18:29:02 Tig|: The link you gave would have to be GTA02, then, since it doesn't have a hub invovled anywhere, right? Aug 09 18:29:12 mjr: would you be interested in telling me how, or pointing me somewhere? Aug 09 18:29:27 no, I was just being a smartass Aug 09 18:29:38 ok, then. Aug 09 18:29:57 retracile: hmm good point :) the blog entry is a FR but the wiki instructions seem to be for a GTA01 Aug 09 18:32:03 is the latest qtopia-x11 image on buildhost newer or older than 2008.08? Aug 09 18:32:41 malik1972: well, i cant really wreck havoc and mess things up/reflash if sync sucks Aug 09 18:33:36 Tig|: In doing some initial looking, it looked like bluetooth keyboards were expensive ~$100 and up. :/ Aug 09 18:33:43 bbl Aug 09 18:34:20 lpotter: ping Aug 09 18:34:34 retracile: erm I bought one for about £30 (UK) the other day from a general department store, shopping around online would have got me a cheaper one Aug 09 18:34:49 I got one for £18 Aug 09 18:34:49 malik1972: ther is suppose to be a eet binary file to open and make them just have to find it Aug 09 18:36:03 retracile: I have one like this : http://www.amazon.com/iGo-XTBTUE-Stowaway%C3%82%C2%AE-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth%C3%82%C2%AE/dp/B0018MFORS/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1218306900&sr=8-5 $50 :) Aug 09 18:36:07 SirBob1701: qtopia crashed while converting, i will ask some specialists on that Aug 09 18:36:50 ok Aug 09 18:37:02 i'm dling the data library for enlightenment on ubuntu Aug 09 18:38:23 Tig|: Thanks. If I can't get the usb keyboard working, I may resort to that. Aug 09 18:38:41 USB keyboards should work though :( Aug 09 18:39:17 not got one here to test with :( Aug 09 18:40:22 yeah, I know. I have 2 here, so maybe I can figure out something. Aug 09 18:42:22 can fuking nobody tell me how i change the word list of the qtopia keyboard :D? Aug 09 18:42:48 are there mini games for freerunner? Aug 09 18:43:41 Bish: google for qdawggen ;) Aug 09 18:45:17 anyone know which "component" I'm filing a bug against if the broken program is openmoko-messages? Aug 09 18:47:20 Xilent: evrything that runs on your desktop linux PC and the FR hw's is willing Aug 09 18:48:29 I installed tangogps but how do I start this application? Aug 09 18:48:38 Blalien: which image? Aug 09 18:49:01 arne_: the latest tangogps on 2008.8 Aug 09 18:49:24 Blalien: and u installed tangogps via opkg? Aug 09 18:50:09 Blalien: how did you build tangogps? Aug 09 18:50:11 Bish: Yeah, but I installed it on my sd card via opkg install -d card Aug 09 18:50:20 what the fuck is Aug 09 18:50:21 -D card Aug 09 18:50:27 Bish: you are supposed to figure out it yourself :) Aug 09 18:50:35 no i dont :P Aug 09 18:50:44 im not* Aug 09 18:50:44 oh Aug 09 18:50:56 why not? ;) Aug 09 18:51:00 lindi-: btw, what do u mean Aug 09 18:51:07 the qtopia keyboard story, or what -d is Aug 09 18:51:18 Blalien: i dont know the -d parameter, opkg is buggy anyway Aug 09 18:51:18 Bish: how to change the layout Aug 09 18:51:28 or word list Aug 09 18:51:43 Blalien: -d is something like --direction .. hm. then u will need -d /media/card i think Aug 09 18:51:53 malik1972: i'm downloading the enlightnment misc module. you have to build the eet program from source Aug 09 18:51:56 lindi-: .. yeah i found a word list in /usr/share/dict/.. or SirBob1701 did,, but if i change it Aug 09 18:52:06 everything is like before Aug 09 18:52:13 Bish: what is the name of the package? Aug 09 18:52:22 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r13a026534afe 10/ (data/themes/zhone.edc data/themes/zhone_call.edc src/zhone): apply patch to add a DTMF keypad (closes: #79) Aug 09 18:52:30 which package? xD qtopia keyboard is standart in 2008.8 Aug 09 18:52:42 Bish: yep, which package is the qtopia keyboard in Aug 09 18:53:09 lindi-: i dont know .. its part of the system Aug 09 18:53:09 and it sux Aug 09 18:53:10 Bish: i have not managed to build 2008.8 yet so i am only looking at the sources Aug 09 18:53:11 dont ask me :D Aug 09 18:53:17 xt: no.. its great for smsing Aug 09 18:53:21 Bish: but don't you want to learn the system? ;) Aug 09 18:53:37 lindi-: .. sure, but at this moment, i just want to write sms.. german nazi ones :p Aug 09 18:53:43 Bish: yeah, that's why I bought a freefrunner Aug 09 18:53:43 to Aug 09 18:53:44 SMS Aug 09 18:53:47 i need a wordlist including hitler, and something Aug 09 18:54:05 xt: .. its a mobilephone? no ... mobile pc Aug 09 18:54:12 if i want a mobile linux thingy, i will buy a zaurus Aug 09 18:54:30 lindi-: let me take a look Aug 09 18:54:31 opkg has an option to list which package has the file Aug 09 18:54:36 yeah sure Aug 09 18:54:36 but i can't remember which one Aug 09 18:54:38 installed :p Aug 09 18:54:45 opkg list installed.. or opkg installed Aug 09 18:54:55 hey Bish if you do figure it out you should write up a bit on how to do it on wiki Aug 09 18:55:08 Bish: it's a development platform (: Aug 09 18:55:34 xt: yes but it was not invented for DEVELOPINg Aug 09 18:55:36 xD Aug 09 18:55:44 its a fuking mobilephone.. or better.. it will be one Aug 09 18:56:00 so .. i will write sms with it xD Aug 09 18:56:22 "oh cool it has a gsm daemon, lets write an client.. but dont use it.. cool" Aug 09 18:56:26 Bish: i'll be improving the keyboard too but first i want to build the source :) Aug 09 18:56:39 Bish: then i want to be able to debug the source Aug 09 18:56:41 yes .. but xt turns me crazy Aug 09 18:56:52 Bish: no. it is in fact YOU that turn you crazy Aug 09 18:56:52 Bish: then i'll start fixing bugs. only after that i'll be thinking about adding something new :) Aug 09 18:57:05 xt: its your stupid comments that drive me crazy Aug 09 18:57:12 no stop talking to me.. and start developing, but not using it Aug 09 18:57:25 lindi-: wee :) would be great Aug 09 18:57:57 Bish: it's not mutually exclusive (: Aug 09 18:58:19 xt: please, stop talking to me Aug 09 18:58:32 but yeah, I really hate that keyboard, but that's my personal opinion, feel free to ignore it Aug 09 18:58:50 yes xD youre right Aug 09 18:58:55 nobody cares about your opinion Aug 09 18:59:03 you seem to care A LOT. Aug 09 18:59:31 yeah because i hate ppl who talk about their opinions, even if they know that nobody will care xD Aug 09 18:59:50 "this board sux, i wont write sms with it.. " .. nobody cares xD.. then start developing man Aug 09 19:00:26 i hate ppl that pidegonhole ppl Aug 09 19:01:01 where are xserver errors logged? Aug 09 19:01:11 undrwate1: lsof? Aug 09 19:01:38 undrwate1: lsof|grep Xglamo Aug 09 19:01:51 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r5e4f692d034a 10/ (AUTHORS ChangeLog): credit Julien Cassignol correctly for his patch Aug 09 19:02:48 lindi-: http://rafb.net/p/5vBTHV54.html Aug 09 19:02:49 lindi-: thanks...have to install lsof... Aug 09 19:02:51 cant find the keyboard in there Aug 09 19:03:23 no /var/log/X? :P Aug 09 19:03:41 undrwate1: use lsof Aug 09 19:04:10 Bish: the problem is that the start icon doesn't show up when I install it on the sd card... and when I install it on root, it does show up Aug 09 19:04:34 Blalien: .. yeah sure because -d changes the root directory for installing Aug 09 19:04:41 meaning... tangogps is not on /bin Aug 09 19:04:48 its on /media/card/bin Aug 09 19:04:56 and your icon is not where the icon shud be Aug 09 19:05:02 so .. stop installing on card, Aug 09 19:05:03 just type Aug 09 19:05:06 opkg install tangogps Aug 09 19:05:24 prove me wrong Aug 09 19:05:27 lsof doesn't show anything...some upgrade (non-official repo) killed my gui...any recommendations on how to trace it? Aug 09 19:05:36 Bish: and can I change that somewhere? Because my SD has more storage capacity :P Aug 09 19:05:51 Blalien: tangogps wont be bigger than 1-4 mb i think Aug 09 19:06:06 the only thing that will become big is the map folder (/var/) Aug 09 19:06:13 Bish: Oke thanks, and you are right ;) :P Aug 09 19:06:22 hello everyone, can someone point me towards some _complete_ directions as to how I can boot OpenMoko from my Treo650? Aug 09 19:06:37 so.. even if you install tangogps on card.. it will write in nand/ram xD and make it fuggin big Aug 09 19:06:43 with a assshitload of maps Aug 09 19:06:48 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rb9e9d771dd3c 10/src/zhone: use unicode strings for the gui Aug 09 19:07:08 benjaminvm: you have incomplete instructions? Aug 09 19:07:56 any idea what the following means?: Aug 09 19:07:59 [ 6809.600000] AR6000 scan complete: 0 Aug 09 19:07:59 [ 6809.610000] AR6000 Neighbor Report Event Aug 09 19:08:15 If I have an adapter that goes from AC to USB and doesn't specify voltage should that be safe to charge the FR? Aug 09 19:08:29 yes Aug 09 19:08:44 but blame the adapter maker if it isn't Aug 09 19:09:10 freesmartphone.org: 03mail 07zhone * rff4c5c02ee9f 10/setup.py: Aug 09 19:09:10 freesmartphone.org: setup.py: Only compile theme on "build" Aug 09 19:09:10 freesmartphone.org: To ease packaging and general user experience, this patch makes sure Aug 09 19:09:10 freesmartphone.org: that the file ./data/themes/zhone.edj is only generated when doing Aug 09 19:09:10 freesmartphone.org: "build" and removed on "clean". Aug 09 19:09:31 freesmartphone.org: well I have looked around and can't find anything that gives me step by step instructions. I have experience with linux, and thought this might be a fun project. Aug 09 19:09:52 benjaminvm: you and me both ;) Aug 09 19:11:17 Bish: that doesn't still tell me what package has the wordlist Aug 09 19:12:02 lindi-: i think there's one called words? Aug 09 19:12:19 dfu-utils is still 64bit unclean? Aug 09 19:12:49 printf("\tsearch Search for a package providing \n"); Aug 09 19:12:57 Bish: opkg search /usr/share/wordlist.txt Aug 09 19:13:09 lindi-: i found a dict Aug 09 19:13:12 undrwatel: :), so should I use cocoboot and replace the rootfs, or should I flash the whole device(http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/PalmTreo650HowTo) anyhing openmoko specific? Aug 09 19:13:12 in /usr/share/dict Aug 09 19:13:19 Bish: is that the one the keyboard uses? Aug 09 19:13:25 lindi-: but i removed that file Aug 09 19:13:47 and even then , the qtopia keyboard had recommendet words Aug 09 19:14:13 Bish: use strace to figure out where it reads the wordlist Aug 09 19:14:19 benjaminvm: i'm still in the "it would be cool if..." stage...so you're beyond me Aug 09 19:14:32 lindi-: .. maybe there is no wordlist .. maybe its compiled in Aug 09 19:14:34 would be shit Aug 09 19:14:39 i g2g now Aug 09 19:14:43 sorry, i will be back in 3-4 hours Aug 09 19:14:46 Bish: strace should tell you that too Aug 09 19:14:46 sorry Aug 09 19:14:55 hm, maybe Aug 09 19:15:01 i don't even know where the source is since i don't know that name of the package ;) Aug 09 19:21:06 Lindi Aug 09 19:21:18 Dave: hmm? Aug 09 19:21:33 Any idea if there is a way to force the keyboard to come up, from the command line? Aug 09 19:21:40 either that or emulate keypresses? Aug 09 19:22:04 Dave: hmm? Aug 09 19:22:18 "DISPLAY=:0 matchbox-keyboard" Aug 09 19:22:27 undrwatel: it's possible but no one is sharing the details :(, [http://zefanja.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html] Aug 09 19:22:50 Dave: i "emulate" keypresses using vnc. ssh -g -t -L5900:localhost:5900 freerunner 'chroot /media/card/sid x11vnc -localhost -display :0' Aug 09 19:25:01 (usbkeyboard) Ok, lsusb shows the usb keyboard, but the capslock light doesn't toggle, and typing doesn't enter characters into the terminal on the FR. Aug 09 19:26:00 retracile: i have same issue with kernel-2.6.24_2.6.24+git2+c596d9067aa789a62e51df89917680eabe6453e2-r2_om-gta02.ipk Aug 09 19:26:17 retracile: but for some reason i can type outside X Aug 09 19:26:38 retracile: which kernel are you using? Aug 09 19:26:48 lindi-: interesting. How do you get out of X to try that? Aug 09 19:27:00 retracile: /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm stop Aug 09 19:27:46 lindi-: Ah. Yeah, that would do it. :) Aug 09 19:28:53 lindi-: Ok, yeah, I can use the keyboard that way as well. Aug 09 19:31:18 Is there a way to kill dfu-util if it's unresponsive... it seems to block something on usb, as new dfu-util instances behave the same way... Aug 09 19:31:31 It doesn't like -9 Aug 09 19:31:40 retracile: cool Aug 09 19:31:52 retracile: are you able to compile X? Aug 09 19:32:50 lindi-: Maybe; I'd have to check. Is there a relevant compile option? Aug 09 19:33:10 retracile: the defaults should be just fine? are you using mokomakefile? Aug 09 19:34:34 lindi-: I am Aug 09 19:36:11 Is there a way I can change the screen to run as landscape outside of X? Aug 09 19:36:29 (I'd rather have 640x480 than 480x640) Aug 09 19:36:53 retracile: good question Aug 09 19:37:43 retracile: wait, i am trying to remove unnecessary stuff from my desk so that i can unwrap the rubber keyboard :) Aug 09 19:37:49 lindi-: All I want is a 1990's PC experience here... just in miniature... and with a couple orders of magnitude more storage.. ;) Aug 09 19:38:05 lindi-: Hey, thanks :) Aug 09 19:38:46 You mean rotate the framebuffer? Aug 09 19:39:35 I accidentially flashed my backup images with the FR booted from NAND... Now it won't boot anymore. Is there a problem with the backups or shouldn't I try to flash kernel and rootfs from NAND? :-) Aug 09 19:41:28 Flashing should be the same whether you booted u-boot from NAND or NOR Aug 09 19:43:02 Ok, thx... Uboot says CRC error for the kernel... Aug 09 19:43:36 did you back up with "dfu-util -U"? Aug 09 19:43:40 retracile: sorry but this may take a while Aug 09 19:44:14 SpeedEvil: Yeah, that'd probably work. Aug 09 19:44:38 lindi-: That's ok. I'll be stepping away periodically anyway. Aug 09 19:45:01 anyone have experience with cocoboot and openmoko, better to go with om 2007 or om2008 at this time? Aug 09 19:45:05 mmontour, yes, I think so, like it's written on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Pre-Flash_Backup Aug 09 19:46:06 so does anyone actually know how to get USB networking working with 2008.08? Aug 09 19:47:10 I wouldn't be surprised if dfu-util -U was still buggy, but I haven't tried it lately. Aug 09 19:47:35 SpeedEvil: I don't suppose you know how to do that? Aug 09 19:47:41 weatherhead: The only thing I had to do different in 2008.8 for USB networking was manually create /etc/resolv.conf with my nameserver. Everything else has been the same Aug 09 19:48:26 does anyone know what packages I should remove to remove pulseaudio? Aug 09 19:48:41 I installed it yesterday and now i have the no sound on resume problem Aug 09 19:54:29 Pyrasi: ah, thx :) Aug 09 19:54:45 now i know why i have sound problems after resuming since some days :) Aug 09 19:54:58 i installed openmoko-mediaplayer2 and therefore pulseaudio Aug 09 19:55:01 stevenSn: how did you do that? Aug 09 19:55:06 without ssh access Aug 09 19:55:52 borg_: same thing happened to me =/ Aug 09 19:55:53 weatherhead: I plugged in the USB, did the ifconfig usb0 ... step on my PC, then I was able to ssh to 192.168.0.202 Aug 09 19:56:03 well, I am not Aug 09 19:56:03 hehe Aug 09 19:56:09 weatherhead: You don't need DNS to ssh in Aug 09 19:56:23 yes I know that, but ssh is not working since I updated to 2008.08 Aug 09 19:56:31 borg_: any idea what package should be removed to get rid of pulseaudio? Aug 09 19:56:32 I can ping the device but ssh just hangs Aug 09 19:56:36 so, is there a known fix for this? Aug 09 19:56:36 weatherhead: Can you ping the freerunner? Aug 09 19:56:40 I can Aug 09 19:56:53 i need a mediaplayer since i use my neo as a radio replacement in my car Aug 09 19:56:58 weatherhead: You installed the image? Aug 09 19:57:02 I did Aug 09 19:57:02 (someone stole my radio...) Aug 09 19:57:16 I updated my uboot as well because I tohught that might be causing it Aug 09 19:57:24 weatherhead: Was the USB plugged in when you booted the freerunner? Aug 09 19:57:29 I think so yes Aug 09 19:58:37 ok I just plugged the FR, I can now ping it Aug 09 19:59:18 I issue the ssh command, it asks me for a password, I press enter, and it hangs Aug 09 19:59:33 <|FiLiP|> weatherhead, did you wait long enough ? Aug 09 19:59:43 I left it on for 3 hours earlier Aug 09 19:59:46 <|FiLiP|> ssh daemon might be trying to reverse lookup your ip Aug 09 19:59:58 <|FiLiP|> which is not working without dns Aug 09 20:00:25 I don't understand it though, I have the same ahrdware as everyone else, the same image, so why is it not working for me? Aug 09 20:00:25 <|FiLiP|> hmm, 3 hours seems way too long for a dns timeout Aug 09 20:00:36 could it be because I don't have a SIM in my freerunner? Aug 09 20:00:40 weatherhead: So it asks you for a password? That means its connecting to the ssh daemon (I think). Your doing ssh root@192.168.0.202 right Aug 09 20:00:41 crazy I know, Aug 09 20:00:48 stevenSn: yes Aug 09 20:01:29 if I then kill it, and try again, it says remote host key has changed Aug 09 20:01:38 weatherhead: try running ssh -vvv root@192.168.0.202 for more info Aug 09 20:02:18 oh Aug 09 20:02:21 it worked that time... Aug 09 20:02:59 that is with an openmoko-qtopia-x11 devel image though, not 2008.08 Aug 09 20:03:02 I will try reflashing Aug 09 20:04:11 Anyone up-to-date with error-messages given by dfu-util? I keep getting errr -16 when flashing a new root filesystem. Aug 09 20:04:30 Happen with 2008.8 and (I guess...) 2007.2 Aug 09 20:04:32 guys, how many reflashes do you think is the life of the NAND flash? Aug 09 20:04:55 I only ask becaus I need this phone to last me a good few years Aug 09 20:05:24 Hm. Where do I find the battery charge information from the commandline? I'm used to looking under /proc/acpi, but I don't see that directory on the FR. Aug 09 20:06:17 hi, how can I compile openmoko for the treo 650 using the MokoMakefile? Are there any platform specific aspects that I need to address? thanks. Aug 09 20:07:54 i'm not satisfied with the 2007.02 interface and phone features, i'm trying to decide what software to install Aug 09 20:08:38 i'm an arch linux user so what software should i install on my fr ? Aug 09 20:09:06 lindi-: For reference, my kernel according to opkg is: kernel - 2:2.6.24+git27+1a95efdc23966343a3b432ceef2f6c24dc0e2052-r2 Aug 09 20:11:32 What do I need to do to be able to switch batteries while freerunner is running? I need it to charge a flat battery Aug 09 20:12:07 afaik nothing much, just not expect the gsm to stay alive Aug 09 20:12:18 Zero_Dogg, try with plugging it with USB and switch the battery Aug 09 20:12:52 i want the most efficient gsm phone so what do i choose ? 2008.08, ASU, FSO, SHR, QTopia, is there another ? Aug 09 20:12:53 yeah I kinda took the USB step for granted there Aug 09 20:13:16 what does ASU mean? is it the same as 2008.08? Aug 09 20:13:37 retracile: ok Aug 09 20:13:37 yes, it's the same Aug 09 20:13:57 I've tried everything I can think of. Turned off GSM, bluetooth, everything i could think of but it still it seems to power down when I remove the battery (with external power connected) Aug 09 20:15:02 i'd like to see some poll on what OS people have installed on their FR Aug 09 20:15:19 xmpp: org.openmoko.dev and debian unstable chroot Aug 09 20:16:08 i doubt debian would be better for simple phone purpose Aug 09 20:16:22 Zero_Dogg: I don't know if this will work, but try booting into the NAND u-boot menu and then switch the batteries while in that environment. If that doesn't work, you may be able to do it under Linux by disabling charging through a /sys entry Aug 09 20:16:42 mmontour: how do I get into the u-boot menu? Aug 09 20:16:47 xmpp: but they have mplayer :) Aug 09 20:16:50 i would like a up to date port of Arch though Aug 09 20:17:14 i don't care about mplayer on my phone right now Aug 09 20:17:17 Hold down power button, then hold down Aux button (wiki should have details). Also do this with a recent (i.e. August) u-boot Aug 09 20:17:34 does anyone here (by any chance) have a DELL bluetooth mouse?? i need him/her to dfu-util -U the firmware since i borked mine :| Aug 09 20:17:56 i want my freerunner to be a real usable phone Aug 09 20:18:06 xmpp, try Qtopia then Aug 09 20:18:06 mmontour: hrm, might need to upgrade then, it's still running the default firmware Aug 09 20:18:11 it does the phone well Aug 09 20:18:57 is there recent screenshots of Qtopia somewhere ? Aug 09 20:19:01 retracile: ok Aug 09 20:19:10 retracile: lsusb shows '058f:9254 Alcor Micro Corp. Hub 0000:0000 1241:1503 Belkin (?)' Aug 09 20:19:14 You can grab the most recent u-boot from the 'daily' dir on buildhost.openmoko.org (you want the gta02v5 version) Aug 09 20:19:32 Qtopia screenshots on the wiki look bad Aug 09 20:19:46 retracile: let's make usb keyboard work with X Aug 09 20:21:20 xmpp: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29198114@N06/sets/72157606558286856/ Aug 09 20:21:22 retracile: dmesg -c; press a key; dmesg -c; prints 'evbug.c: Event. Dev: usb-s3c24xx-2.3/input0, Type: 4, Code: 4, Value: 458796' Aug 09 20:21:31 ok, when I reflash to 2008.08 and try to activate usb0 I get "SIOCSIFADDR: No such device" Aug 09 20:21:42 retracile: that's probably ./build/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2_2.6.24+git0+d4b28ec4e2818207cc0e48b90dbce581e0b779e7-r2/git/drivers/input/evbug.c? Aug 09 20:22:15 retracile: * Input driver event debug module - dumps all events into syslog Aug 09 20:22:35 retracile: rmmod evbug and that stops Aug 09 20:25:02 ArteK: ty, but i still think Qtopia looks bad Aug 09 20:25:30 at least it works Aug 09 20:25:34 indeed Aug 09 20:26:32 lindi-: To clarify... you're saying run X, enter 'dmesg -c' using the on-screen kbd, then 'press a key' is on the usb keyboard? Aug 09 20:26:37 2008.8 is taking ages to boot and then seems to freeze Aug 09 20:26:47 retracile: i use ssh over wlan Aug 09 20:26:50 common issue? Aug 09 20:26:51 retracile: much easier Aug 09 20:27:19 retracile: dmesg -c is just for making sure you only see relevant info (-c removes all old info) Aug 09 20:27:26 lindi-: ah, yeah, that would be... but I'm not setup for that at the moment. :( Aug 09 20:28:04 retracile: it's very difficult to debug they keyboard with the keyboard :P Aug 09 20:28:12 retracile: see http://rafb.net/p/TSKkDC71.html Aug 09 20:28:34 retracile: 1) why does it load evbug? Aug 09 20:28:38 retracile: 2) how do we make X use it? Aug 09 20:29:25 i was interested in the 2008.08 ASU but everything i read tells me it renders the phone unusable, should i try anyway ? Aug 09 20:29:56 xmpp, try it in the microSD Aug 09 20:30:11 xmpp, so you can keep 2007.2 Aug 09 20:30:16 is it slower with the sd ? Aug 09 20:30:30 i don't know i'm going to do it later Aug 09 20:30:46 lindi-: evbug is a kernel module? I'm not seeing that on my FR. Aug 09 20:31:09 retracile: yes Aug 09 20:31:22 # cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb1/1-2/1-2.3/1-2.3\:1.0/input/input9/event5/dev Aug 09 20:31:26 13:69 Aug 09 20:31:34 so it's /dev/input/event5 Aug 09 20:31:46 # lsof|grep event5 Aug 09 20:31:47 hald-addo 1773 haldaemon 4r CHR 13,69 5494 /dev/input/event5 Aug 09 20:32:07 i think 2007.2 also has really annoying bugs, so maybe is 2008.8 is not much worse Aug 09 20:32:56 retracile: can you lsof | grep glamo | grep /dev? Aug 09 20:33:23 i'm gonna try 2008.8 on the micro sd and wish everything's fine Aug 09 20:33:50 how to disable the suspend? Aug 09 20:34:00 it's getting annoying Aug 09 20:34:21 lindi-: I'll have to retype the results; is there something in that you're looking for? Aug 09 20:34:24 lu_zero: neod calls apm -s? Aug 09 20:34:52 retracile: i was hoping you'd make sense out of it :) Aug 09 20:35:07 retracile: | grep event at least? Aug 09 20:35:53 it shows Xglamo as having /dev/'s mem, fb0, tty1, input/mice, input/event1 Aug 09 20:36:20 retracile: ok so it does not have event5 open Aug 09 20:36:25 retracile: does hal? Aug 09 20:39:52 if anyone has hacked openmoko on to their treo 650 email me (vm.benjamin@gmail.com), I need details :). Aug 09 20:39:55 '/usr/bin/Xglamo :0 -pn -dpi 285 -screen 480x640 -hide-cursor -root-ppm /usr/share/pixmaps/xsplash-vga.ppm vt1' is running, maybe i should add -use-evdev? Aug 09 20:40:38 lindi-: hald-addo has /dev/input/event{0,1,4,5,6} Aug 09 20:41:10 retracile: ok Aug 09 20:42:00 usb-common.c in glamo has for (i = 0; i < 32; i++) { XmuSnprintf(name, sizeof(name), "/dev/input/event%d", i); Aug 09 20:43:25 i'll try 'Kstrace -o /tmp/s -s4096 -f -tt /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm start' to see if it opens event%d Aug 09 20:43:53 lindi-: I take it that glamo is started by /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm ? Aug 09 20:43:58 retracile: yes Aug 09 20:44:29 hello. does anyone have the correct url for "openmoko builds" on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util#Binaries as the link is returning a 404 Aug 09 20:45:13 lindi-: as a sanity check, I'm restarting X with the usb keyboard connected. I think I've done that before though. Aug 09 20:45:27 retracile: it alone does not help here either Aug 09 20:45:49 tim_abell, http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/dfu-util Aug 09 20:45:52 lindi-: yeah, doesn't help here. Aug 09 20:46:31 cheers BlueRaid Aug 09 20:47:47 lindi-: ctrl-alt-F1 doesn't switch to the terminal either. Aug 09 20:47:53 s/terminal/console/ Aug 09 20:47:54 retracile meant: lindi-: ctrl-alt-F1 doesn't switch to the console either. Aug 09 20:47:57 retracile: X disables it Aug 09 20:49:00 K/dev/tty1B K/dev/tty1B K/dev/tty0B K/dev/fb0B K/dev/memB K/dev/mouseB K/dev/psauxB K/dev/input/miceB K/dev/input/touchscreen0B it seems to open Aug 09 20:49:02 Hrm. Now that I'm looking for it, I don't see F1-F12 on the matchbox keyboard either. :/ Aug 09 20:49:04 and not event5 Aug 09 20:49:36 Hm. Where is it getting that list? It doesn't match the loop you pasted earlier. Aug 09 20:50:03 lindi-: I'm wondering if a well-chosen symlink to event5 might get us there. Aug 09 20:50:32 retracile: sounds like cheating :) Aug 09 20:50:38 "usb-kbd" is the name of the driver in X Aug 09 20:50:59 lindi-: I'm ok with cheating as a step 1. ;) Aug 09 20:51:50 i'd like to see screenshots of FSO or SHR Aug 09 20:52:18 lindi-: what are you using for your build environment? Aug 09 20:52:24 (mokomakefile?) Aug 09 20:52:56 Zero_Dogg: another possibility for your battery-swap is to boot into Linux, turn off GSM, then turn off charging by "echo 0 > /sys/something/chgmode" (not sure of exact path). Then "echo 1" to that same file after you've swapped batteries. Aug 09 20:53:01 ok, so I got wifi working Aug 09 20:53:06 how do I fix the GPS? Aug 09 20:53:14 (I have already taken out the SD card) Aug 09 20:53:25 weatherhead: kernel update Aug 09 20:53:41 I believe I'm on the latest Aug 09 20:53:57 latest from buildhost/daily Aug 09 20:54:09 retracile: mokomakefile Aug 09 20:54:15 ya or if your running 2008.8 one for taht Aug 09 20:54:38 wifi working? Aug 09 20:54:43 SirBob1701: sorry I didn't understand that... do I have to update the kernel Aug 09 20:55:09 lu_zero: ? Aug 09 20:55:23 weatherhead: yes Aug 09 20:55:30 SirBob1701: to what? Aug 09 20:55:32 and how Aug 09 20:55:57 weatherhead: what distro are you running? Aug 09 20:56:08 here is how to flash http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Aug 09 20:56:29 SirBob1701: I know how to flash it, I'm running the kernel from buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/ Aug 09 20:56:31 the latest one Aug 09 20:56:42 weatherhead: ok then you have the gps fix Aug 09 20:56:51 weatherhead: don't even need to take sd card out Aug 09 20:57:05 SirBob1701: but I don't seem to. The nav application doesn't ever seem to get a fix Aug 09 20:57:07 you'll take a really really long time to get a fix inside no matter what Aug 09 20:57:17 ok Aug 09 20:57:21 if you go outside you should get a fix in 2-3 minutes Aug 09 20:57:24 weatherhead: Try going for a walk Aug 09 20:57:32 heh ok Aug 09 20:57:36 back in a few minutes :p Aug 09 20:58:12 * Dave shares his freshly baked pie with lindi Aug 09 20:58:28 lindi- wasn't aware of that Aug 09 20:58:57 lu_zero: of what? ;) Aug 09 20:59:17 i'm about to flash my freerunner to 2008.8,k and I'm expanding the instructions slightly on the wiki as I go. Someone kick me if I'm doing the wrong thing. Eg I added "chmod +x dfu-util" to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util#Binaries as it strikes me that this is a non-obvious step unless you are experienced with linux. Aug 09 20:59:48 hi all! Aug 09 21:00:10 I have a question: Is there a 3G verion planned for the openmoko? Aug 09 21:00:32 TMM: that has been asked a million times on the mailing list :P Aug 09 21:00:44 Is it needless to solder 10 pF to the SD pins with the new kernel or will it increase gps quality? Aug 09 21:00:46 "the" mailing list, heh Aug 09 21:01:01 abraxa_: uhm yeah, +s :P Aug 09 21:01:13 jomat: measure it before Aug 09 21:02:01 can somebody with working external keyboard run "lsof | grep glamo" for me? Aug 09 21:02:06 Would it harm to solder one in anyways? Aug 09 21:02:53 lindi-: care to save me the trouble of searching through millions of posts? :) Aug 09 21:03:36 jomat: I've heard one report of someone who broke his FR by trying to solder in a cap (his SD card stopped working). IMHO it's better to wait and see if the software fixes are good enough Aug 09 21:03:41 TMM: sure: we don't know Aug 09 21:04:32 mmontour, did it help to remove the cap again? Aug 09 21:04:32 lindi-: that works Aug 09 21:04:41 Hello Mmontour :) Aug 09 21:05:46 you see, my dream phone would be able to be a wireless access point and use my hsdpa internet Aug 09 21:05:55 jomat: I'm not sure what happened in the end. The problem wasn't the capacitor itself, it was that he had a solder bridge or something when installing it Aug 09 21:06:13 TMM: just add 3g-usb-stick Aug 09 21:06:24 lindi-: to the phone? Aug 09 21:06:27 TMM: yes Aug 09 21:06:29 Hi Dave. Please tell us all how to get our bluetooth headsets to work :) Aug 09 21:06:41 Ah, okay, I hope this won't happen :-) Aug 09 21:06:56 then I'd still need 2 simcards and the extra cost involved with that Aug 09 21:07:18 plus, the usb 3g cards, well.. suck Aug 09 21:07:19 TMM: my operator gives me up to 5 simcards with the same price Aug 09 21:07:24 I've got one, and it's horrible Aug 09 21:07:39 TMM: they call it "multisim" Aug 09 21:07:41 lindi-: sure, but then you can't use the sim card(s) for calling and data at the same time Aug 09 21:07:54 TMM: Last I heard, the wireless in the FR can't run as an accesspoint anyway. :( Aug 09 21:08:04 well, ad-hoc would be good enough Aug 09 21:08:07 TMM: i can call with one simcard and use the other simcard in the 3g-usb-stick at the same time afaik Aug 09 21:08:14 really now? Aug 09 21:08:17 that's interesting Aug 09 21:08:29 TMM: well, that's how they advertise it. it'll get it in a week Aug 09 21:08:50 from what I gathered, that's impossible Aug 09 21:08:59 Lindi do you use qtopia at all? Aug 09 21:09:04 but, maybe that's just my operator, it's the same one that caps my 3g at 1.5mbit/s Aug 09 21:09:13 so, I wouldn't be surprised Aug 09 21:09:15 TMM: why would it be impossible? Aug 09 21:09:32 something to do with the gsm network and imei numbers, I didn't quite understand the explaination Aug 09 21:09:45 it might thus have been bullcrap Aug 09 21:09:56 TMM: i don't think the simcards are identical Aug 09 21:10:09 Dave: i have not been able to compile asu yet Aug 09 21:10:32 TMM: so they are just two normal simcards. it's all just how they price it Aug 09 21:11:40 * Rigolo is not very used to Om2008.8 yet ... Aug 09 21:12:04 at least it is quicker than the x11-qtopia images on buildhost :-) Aug 09 21:12:14 I wish I had my openmoko already :/ Aug 09 21:12:23 it will take another 2 months before I get it apparently Aug 09 21:12:27 :( Aug 09 21:12:34 brb Aug 09 21:12:34 why? sold out again? Aug 09 21:12:59 yeha Aug 09 21:13:23 TMM: good for you the phone might be usable by the time you get one Aug 09 21:13:26 * Tanuva realizes he has been really damn lucky getting his so early Aug 09 21:13:32 mmm what' sup with resolv.conf in OM2008.8 (mm need to shorten those namen ...) Aug 09 21:13:47 Rigolo: did they get a batch after the initial release? Aug 09 21:14:13 * Rigolo FR arrived one day after he went on holiday (july 6th or something) Aug 09 21:14:24 retracile: no idea ... maybe I was lucky :-) Aug 09 21:17:35 Is wifi working on yesterday's 2008.8? Aug 09 21:18:00 (I keep getting "wifi:unknown") Aug 09 21:18:08 boohoo Aug 09 21:18:49 not complaining, just asking Aug 09 21:18:55 lindi-: Regarding FB rotation: CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE_ROTATION might do it. Now to figure out how to set that in this OE stuff... Aug 09 21:20:21 =\ Aug 09 21:21:29 mmontour yap.. that soldering is quite tricky. should only be done by those who are sure to know what they are doing. Aug 09 21:21:37 retracile: keep me updated Aug 09 21:21:42 read 'you havent soldered 0402 before? don't start now' Aug 09 21:21:58 hi roh :) Aug 09 21:22:01 lindi-: Looks like I want to patch defconfig-gta02 Aug 09 21:22:05 sw fix_ES only surfices afaik. Aug 09 21:22:21 roh: any idea if 10pf was a guessed-at value? Aug 09 21:22:52 its 3 fixes so far afaik.. switch off clock when not needed, reduce drive strenght, and reduce voltage to what the card negotiates to Aug 09 21:22:55 I haven't seen any numbers on SNR with fix, compared to clock off. Aug 09 21:22:59 lindi-: I'm new to OE and about 2 years rusty on kernel development, so I'm moving a bit slowly ATM. What I really need is an intro to the OE system. :/ Aug 09 21:23:08 TMM, I've hardly slept since I got mine. So get some kip in now ;) Aug 09 21:23:24 All of those 'fixes' are prolly good for a little more battery life too. Aug 09 21:23:25 SpeedEvil at first yes, but then we did a test and that said 9pf were optimal. but since these caps have about 20% tolerance... ;) Aug 09 21:23:27 Which is nice. Aug 09 21:23:37 retracile: if we pull this out we need to document it to wiki of course Aug 09 21:24:00 lindi-: agreed. Aug 09 21:24:02 SpeedEvil the cap eats about 6-10db noise floor. the sw fix gives about 24-29 db afaik Aug 09 21:24:14 so without sw fix, no cake yet. Aug 09 21:24:19 sw fix only.. cake afaik Aug 09 21:24:27 both -> should also work, does for me. Aug 09 21:24:36 i got smokes, cake is out Aug 09 21:25:11 what is he difference between "locations" and "diversity -nav" Aug 09 21:25:16 (because i soldered in a cap before the sw fix was there, while testing the hw fix idea back then) Aug 09 21:25:16 roh: thanks. Aug 09 21:26:13 roh: I assume with the hard fix, there is no improvement when the SD is unused (with the soft fix) Aug 09 21:26:20 lindi-: If I want to add a patch, do you know how I set that up so that bitbake will use it? Aug 09 21:26:39 retracile: unfortunately not :( Aug 09 21:26:58 lindi-: bummer. Guess I'll have to try to figure it out. Aug 09 21:27:12 SpeedEvil? Aug 09 21:28:09 retracile make a patch which fits on top of the git+ what the recipe patches (if it does that) and add it to the recipe Aug 09 21:28:14 roh: to restate in a more sane way Aug 09 21:28:29 roh: There is no interference with the clock off. Aug 09 21:28:47 roh: so the cap doesn't help then. Aug 09 21:28:53 should be. Aug 09 21:28:56 roh: Ok, lots of clues there... but my knowledge of bitbake/OE is still too low. Where is the recipe? Aug 09 21:28:58 retracile: add it to the SRC_URI list in the bitbake recipe, with a ";patch=1" after the filename. E.g. see the "openocd_svn.bb" recipe Aug 09 21:29:21 the cap also only affects sd_clk.. drive strengt and voltage from the sw fix series affect all data and vcc lines to the sd Aug 09 21:29:35 retracile its in the git tree Aug 09 21:29:51 retracile ./openmoko/packages/... or so... Aug 09 21:29:59 you used mokomakefile? Aug 09 21:30:11 roh: yes. Aug 09 21:32:22 let me update my checkout first Aug 09 21:33:04 when I try to use opkg I get "error. can't get administrative lock" Aug 09 21:33:06 any ideas? Aug 09 21:33:17 weatherhead: < lindi-> Blalien: http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Could%20not%20obtain%20administrative%20lock%22&meta= Aug 09 21:33:28 weatherhead close any other apps which do package work Aug 09 21:33:33 means the installer Aug 09 21:33:38 yes Aug 09 21:33:41 I have closed the installer Aug 09 21:34:11 hm... is something called packagekit running? Aug 09 21:35:08 nope Aug 09 21:35:18 weatherhead, make a reboot.... Aug 09 21:35:30 then its a bug i guess and something left a lockfile Aug 09 21:35:39 ok Aug 09 21:35:45 Has anyone considered porting irssi or any other irc client to openmoko yet? Aug 09 21:35:46 if there is no bug yet, i think its time to file one Aug 09 21:35:56 mmmm 2k8.8 changed how DNS is working ... can somebody give me a hint how to get dns working in 2k8.8 with usb networking? Aug 09 21:36:04 seen that before scrolling by somewhere Aug 09 21:36:17 Jarmund: irssi should just run Aug 09 21:36:37 Jarmund: as should any terminal based client - keyboard may be annoying though. Aug 09 21:36:50 i have an SUB keyboard connected anyways Aug 09 21:36:59 USB* Aug 09 21:37:30 Jarmund: Ah! How did you get that working? Aug 09 21:38:18 retracile: first you have to set USB in host mode, and supply +5V. the trick is to connect the keyboard to the phone via an USB hub Aug 09 21:38:19 Jarmund: Does it work in X as well, or just on the console? Aug 09 21:38:33 good question.. haven't tested it outside the console Aug 09 21:38:49 Jarmund: ha! you are not going to leave until you help debug this a bit :)) Aug 09 21:38:55 I got it working in the console even without the usb hub Aug 09 21:39:00 Jarmund: can you please run "lsof | grep glamo"? Aug 09 21:39:38 don't have FR available at the moment, sorry Aug 09 21:39:43 hm.. this checkout will take some time. Aug 09 21:39:45 Jarmund: oh Aug 09 21:39:51 bummer Aug 09 21:40:09 retracile gta01 didnt have a 5V step up converter to source voltage to the host Aug 09 21:40:51 So is there any way to force the keyboard to come up, from the command line? Aug 09 21:40:56 roh: right, but FR apparently does. Aug 09 21:41:03 (right?) Aug 09 21:42:22 Dave: < lindi-> "DISPLAY=:0 matchbox-keyboard" Aug 09 21:42:33 SpeedEvil: btw "irssi should just run"... as in i just copy over the binary and make sure i have the deps installed? Aug 09 21:42:51 mmontour, is it normal that the 2007.2 rootfs i'm backing up with dfu-util is more than 180MB? Aug 09 21:42:56 Hm. That's interesting... the keyboard LEDs don't light up, but they do take effect. Aug 09 21:42:58 Jarmund: easiest way is to setup debian unstable chroot and apt-get install irssi Aug 09 21:43:03 retracile: ? Aug 09 21:43:06 Jarmund: http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/irssi_0.8.10-r2_armv4t.ipk Aug 09 21:43:16 retracile ack Aug 09 21:43:18 Marcel_M: ah, sweet, thans Aug 09 21:43:21 +k Aug 09 21:43:31 you're welcome Aug 09 21:43:40 mmontour: thanks Aug 09 21:43:41 lindi- oh snaps Aug 09 21:43:44 sorry :) Aug 09 21:44:15 Jarmund: gl with your stuff Aug 09 21:44:32 anychance something simple like that can be done with ntfs-3g or any other app that allows me to mount NTFS disks? i was so glad when i finally got my USB disk connected, until i remembered that the disk was NTFS >_< Aug 09 21:44:39 lindi-: gl with usbstuff, i got a bluetooth apple keyboard Aug 09 21:44:41 feitingen: ty, gl on the getting drunk Aug 09 21:44:51 lindi, it doesn't work Aug 09 21:44:51 Jarmund: laready teher Aug 09 21:44:57 lol Aug 09 21:45:11 X Error of failed request: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) Aug 09 21:45:14 any dns hints and tips for OM2k8.8? Aug 09 21:45:51 (other then .. just remove symlinked resolv.conf and replace with hardcoded version) Aug 09 21:46:09 heh.. that's exactly what i'm doing Aug 09 21:46:20 i made a shellscript that replaces resolv.conf Aug 09 21:46:29 retracile take a look at openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko* Aug 09 21:46:41 well ... there should be a "better way" (tm) (r) (c) than just that Aug 09 21:47:03 there probably is, but it's pretty low on my priority list Aug 09 21:47:08 why else would it be symlinked and you have the /etc/resolvconf dir etc Aug 09 21:47:14 Hi retracile Aug 09 21:47:22 Hi Dave :) Aug 09 21:47:28 :) Aug 09 21:47:31 tried to add some data to /etc/network/interfaces .. but that did not work for usb networking .. Aug 09 21:47:48 and the resolvconf man pages are not very clear also Aug 09 21:47:56 bbl.. Aug 09 21:48:23 cga: sounds normal - FR rootfs partition is 256M minus a few MB for kernel/splashscreen/etc. Be warned that dfu-util upload may be buggy - someone else had problems today after restoring a dfu-util -U backup Aug 09 21:48:45 mmontour, thanks =) Aug 09 21:49:44 roh: thanks Aug 09 21:49:46 mmontour, so why is 2008.08 rootfs something like 68MB? Aug 09 21:49:51 damn i got an error Aug 09 21:49:54 -84 Aug 09 21:50:04 i want to backup fisrt Aug 09 21:51:39 AFAIK dfu-util -U backs up the whole partition, including free space. Aug 09 21:51:41 grr Aug 09 21:51:53 Lindi, any further thoughts? Aug 09 21:52:50 mmontour, i'm using dfu-util -d 0x1d50:0x5119 -a rootfs -R -U rootfs.jffs2 so it should backup only the selected item, isn't it? Aug 09 21:53:38 Dave: xdpyinfo Aug 09 21:54:05 anyone know how I can get tangogps to work under 2008.8 Aug 09 21:54:19 I don't think it's filesystem-aware - it'll just copy the whole rootfs partition. Maybe use rsync, or tar+netcat, or something else to do the backup Aug 09 21:55:02 tangogps doesn't work under 2008.8? Aug 09 21:55:04 dang Aug 09 21:55:32 well I got it installed and it runs Aug 09 21:55:35 but, Aug 09 21:55:39 doesn't seem to work Aug 09 21:55:49 what would be the fastest way of getting support for NTFS disks on my FR? Aug 09 21:55:56 Jarmund: are you serious? Aug 09 21:56:01 yes :( Aug 09 21:56:11 dTx: works for me Aug 09 21:56:24 well, I imagine it would be possible with a bit of kernel hacking to get the ntfs-3g module to work... Aug 09 21:56:44 weatherhead: i'm going offshore for a 5 week period, so i was planning on bringing the FR and my USB disk for entertainment, until i realized the disk was NTFS >_< Aug 09 21:56:48 xt: do you have to do anything special? I can't get gpsd to strart Aug 09 21:57:06 did you install gpsd ? Aug 09 21:57:09 I did Aug 09 21:57:23 isn't there a FUSE ntfs module? Aug 09 21:57:24 maybe use apgsui to start Aug 09 21:57:25 it says "can't run with neither control socket nor devices" Aug 09 21:58:00 dTx: ah yes, I believe ther eis Aug 09 21:58:14 dTx: explain, please? Aug 09 21:58:25 hackable/portable to work with FR? Aug 09 21:58:26 mmontour, to partition the SD i need to ssh in neo while powered on? Aug 09 21:58:54 do we have FUSE for freerunner? Aug 09 21:58:58 Yes, or put the SD card into a card reader on a PC Aug 09 21:58:59 good question Aug 09 21:59:01 :-P Aug 09 21:59:07 mmontour, thanks Aug 09 21:59:16 because if so, then the port could be moderately easy Aug 09 22:00:32 dTx, yeah, ntfs-3g works through fuse Aug 09 22:00:54 does it? I thouht there was ntfs support in a kernel module Aug 09 22:01:02 is that something different Aug 09 22:01:10 it's different, and mostly read-only Aug 09 22:01:16 ok Aug 09 22:01:18 Jarmund: it would probably be much simpler to simply copy your stuff off the drive and reformat at ext2/3 or fat32 Aug 09 22:01:34 ntfs-3g is far better - but why would you ever need ntfs for a freerunner? Aug 09 22:01:36 on that subject, will the freerunner mount reiserFS? Aug 09 22:01:55 If you add a kernel and the modules, sure. Aug 09 22:02:00 mwester: connecting an USB disk that unfortunately only was intended to be used on a windows-machine Aug 09 22:02:16 dTx: thought about it, but i don't have the space to copy it elsewhere, or the time to re-download everything until i ship out Aug 09 22:02:22 Ah, ok -- I thought we were discussing the internal SD card. Aug 09 22:02:38 lol, no.. thanks god Aug 09 22:02:45 Jarmund: in which case, you also are unlikely to have time to hack reliable NTFS support into the freerunner Aug 09 22:02:51 along with a fully working media player... Aug 09 22:03:03 mplayer works doesn't it? Aug 09 22:03:14 i have media player installed Aug 09 22:03:49 I didn't think media player worked though Aug 09 22:03:53 but I think mplayer does Aug 09 22:04:12 hey, im trying to compile mokomakefile and its been running for ages..is that normal? Aug 09 22:04:20 spdr: yes Aug 09 22:04:31 spdr: it took 10 hours or so here Aug 09 22:05:07 its been about 18 here :| Aug 09 22:05:17 and still running ... Aug 09 22:05:38 stuck at 'NOTE: generating locale es_NI (UTF-8)' for a while Aug 09 22:06:20 spdr: you can turn off the locale generation with a build/conf/local.conf option. But yeah, it can take a long time on a slow PC Aug 09 22:07:08 Less than 3h on my new PC, but it took about 32h on my Via C7 box Aug 09 22:08:06 With locales disabled, and all sources already downloaded, the build for the old 2007.2 image takes about 6.5 hours on a dual-core 2.66 GHz P4 with 2GB RAM. The 2008.8 image takes longer, since the qtopia stuff cannot be built in parallel at all. Aug 09 22:08:52 so i guess it should have been done :s Aug 09 22:09:37 qemu-arm is eating a lot of CPU Aug 09 22:10:08 normal qtopia can be built in parallel. Aug 09 22:11:49 so I flashed the 2008.8 firmware, now how can I access the terminal so I can setup my wifi? Aug 09 22:12:44 any ideas Aug 09 22:12:54 hmmm... is there someone i could hire to port ntfs-support for openmoko within tuesday? :P Aug 09 22:13:01 :( Aug 09 22:13:03 <-- lazy and new to porting Aug 09 22:13:05 dTx: setup usb networking first, and install openmoko-terminal2 Aug 09 22:13:16 Bus Aug 09 22:13:39 how can I setup anything without terminal? Aug 09 22:14:00 via ssh? Aug 09 22:14:05 xdpyinfo is supposed to tell me what? Aug 09 22:14:06 usb cable Aug 09 22:14:08 for now Aug 09 22:14:33 oh I forgot, usb networking is already on isn't it Aug 09 22:14:51 on what? Aug 09 22:14:58 the device Aug 09 22:14:59 dTx: USB cable.. no need to access a terminal from your phone to use USB networking, it is already set up Aug 09 22:15:00 dTx: yes, set it up in your pc Aug 09 22:15:24 i don't think i've ever used the terminal on the phone yet Aug 09 22:15:26 dTx: so stick that USB cable where the sun never shines (your USB port, hopefully) Aug 09 22:15:29 much easier via ssh anyway Aug 09 22:15:57 i use the terminal on the phone when i am using the phone in host mode Aug 09 22:16:00 * ajbrun plugs his usb cable into the depths of yokshire Aug 09 22:16:06 it is a dark dismal place Aug 09 22:16:11 (at least today) Aug 09 22:16:59 is it theoretically possible to port ntfs-support to openmoko within tuesday? Aug 09 22:17:13 why the deadline? Aug 09 22:17:38 my work is shipping me offshore, so i need it by then Aug 09 22:17:50 my plan was FR + usb disk = entertainment Aug 09 22:18:19 format the disk differently? Aug 09 22:18:51 well, then i'd lose everything on it (don't have temp storage space elsewhere), so it would kinda defeat its purpose :/ Aug 09 22:19:31 no idea then Aug 09 22:19:54 i am seriously considering burning the stuff i need (well, want) on a dvd, and bringing the usb dvd reader instead, heh Aug 09 22:22:28 * retracile is toying with the idea of connecting the USB floppy drive to the FR Aug 09 22:22:37 THAT would be awesomeness Aug 09 22:22:48 well... completly useless, but still fun Aug 09 22:23:14 or buy a cheap external usb hdd Aug 09 22:23:51 well, since i'm already buying new storage then, i might as well stick to SD Aug 09 22:24:10 * Jarmund looks up how much they cost and how big they come Aug 09 22:24:10 did you try a 16GB SD on the FR yet? Aug 09 22:24:26 only tried the one that came with the FR Aug 09 22:24:28 slow? Aug 09 22:24:39 cga: there is 16GB µSD? Aug 09 22:24:56 * Dave is going crazy trying to get his keyboard to appear Aug 09 22:24:56 so i've heard Aug 09 22:25:19 cga: and it costs how many arms and legs? Aug 09 22:25:31 a couple of each i guess Aug 09 22:26:24 either i looked at the wrong product, or microSD are alot cheaper than anticipated Aug 09 22:26:32 369 NOK for 8Gb Aug 09 22:26:43 (divide by 5, and you get it in USD) Aug 09 22:27:13 I just paid 16€ for 2gig a few days ago (germany) Aug 09 22:27:37 which currency is 6âB¬ ? Aug 09 22:27:38 Jarmund, sounds about right Aug 09 22:27:42 (yay for my terminal) Aug 09 22:27:53 euro Aug 09 22:27:56 ok Aug 09 22:28:08 Jarmund: € == euro Aug 09 22:28:08 i'm getting a new sd card on monday, then Aug 09 22:28:19 pgup is dangeours Aug 09 22:29:40 Jarmund: hrm. io error. But it _is_ an old 720k, so it may just be the disk.. Aug 09 22:30:44 retracile: heh, the floppy? Aug 09 22:30:50 Jarmund: yep :) Aug 09 22:30:58 ok Aug 09 22:31:09 Yeah, it was just the floppy... the next one worked. Aug 09 22:31:16 cool Aug 09 22:31:27 It's hooked to the FR via a powered hub, but still... Aug 09 22:31:29 * retracile giggles Aug 09 22:33:17 now you can have external memory with about one thousandth of the internal memory Aug 09 22:33:35 while still taking up twice the physical space than what the entire phone does Aug 09 22:33:40 i salute you :D Aug 09 22:33:54 ok, my grammar probably failed horribly, but it should be understandable.. Aug 09 22:34:47 hmm.. what's the difference between microSD and microSDHC? Aug 09 22:34:57 HC = high capacity Aug 09 22:35:07 (ie 4+GB, I think) Aug 09 22:35:13 what are you busy with now, retracile? :] Aug 09 22:35:17 ok.. so it's microSD with a fancy name, then Aug 09 22:35:22 Dave: many things. Aug 09 22:35:34 not just a fancy name, a different addressing mode, which allows >2G cards Aug 09 22:35:54 you'll notice how it isn't just a fancy name if you try to use an sdhc card in a plain sd reader Aug 09 22:35:56 Dave: one of which is taking the couple hundred floppies of old data I have and archiving them. So I got a USB floppy drive. And hooked it up to the FR for grins. Aug 09 22:37:05 retracile, w00t :] Aug 09 22:37:35 wow Aug 09 22:37:45 retracile, funny, I was just thinking about that the other day :D Aug 09 22:38:25 retracile, how do you put the fr to use the usb in host mode, I cant find it on the wiki... Aug 09 22:38:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_USB_host Aug 09 22:39:14 yep :D Aug 09 22:39:24 I was getting a webcam and usb wifi to work with it :) Aug 09 22:39:26 on a hub Aug 09 22:39:33 spydon: I'm also doing "ifconfig usb0 down " before the two echo statements given. Aug 09 22:39:47 (and wrote a small script with the set of 3, and the inverse.) Aug 09 22:40:07 retracile, thx :) Aug 09 22:40:11 w00t. 2008.8 installed Aug 09 22:41:23 spydon: To go back to usb device mode: echo "0" > /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode && echo "device" > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode && ifconfig usb0 up Aug 09 22:41:46 retracile, okay Aug 09 22:41:50 can I remove the note about 64bit not working on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util seeing as it worked fine on mine (ubuntu 8.04, 2.6.24-19-generic #1 SMP Fri Jul 11 21:01:46 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux) Aug 09 22:41:59 hmm.. i never bothered taking the usb0 down when doing that.. and it works fine Aug 09 22:43:02 tim_abell: you could add a note that it works for you, if they're getting more, one could remove it :) Aug 09 22:43:12 wish I could get my keyboard to magically appear! Aug 09 22:44:16 last question about porting, and i'll stop the nagging: is there a port of nmap that would work on the FR? Aug 09 22:44:46 Dave: using the matchbox keyboard? Aug 09 22:45:03 yeah but i'm in a fullscreen app Aug 09 22:45:05 what happened to that page that showed how to use wpa supplicant with the standard debian interfaces file Aug 09 22:45:12 and I need the keyboard to appear :| Aug 09 22:45:16 Ahhh.... Aug 09 22:45:27 because there is no way to emulate a keypress otherwise :| Aug 09 22:45:45 and I was kind of hoping there was a way to make it appear on the screen so that I could send a keypress :p Aug 09 22:46:02 Dave: So grab yourself a usb keyboard and help us figure out how to get it working in X. ;) Aug 09 22:46:23 heh :p Aug 09 22:46:29 I think I may own ONE Aug 09 22:46:31 :P Aug 09 22:46:40 Jarmund: http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/nmap_3.81-r2_armv4t.ipk Aug 09 22:46:54 Marcel_M: thanks again Aug 09 22:47:02 :) Aug 09 22:47:13 Retracile, why would it be so difficult? Aug 09 22:47:16 hrm. that 64bit thing was only added today. anyone here go by the name of Qhartman? Aug 09 22:47:42 Dave: the keyboard works on the console, but not in X, and I don't know why yet. Aug 09 22:47:47 they seem to have added the warning but with no explanation or bug report Aug 09 22:47:52 Ohhh! Aug 09 22:47:53 right :) Aug 09 22:47:54 s/keyboard/usb keyboard/ Aug 09 22:47:54 retracile meant: Dave: the usb keyboard works on the console, but not in X, and I don't know why yet. Aug 09 22:47:56 makes sense Aug 09 22:47:59 yeah Aug 09 22:48:01 apt shush Aug 09 22:48:02 Fine, I'll shut up. Aug 09 22:48:06 :) Aug 09 22:48:29 I'm inclined to just remove it with a note requesting a trac # Aug 09 22:48:35 retracile, blame glamo for everything Aug 09 22:48:36 Well, I've gotta run. Maybe I can work on this some more later. Aug 09 22:48:38 That's what I do :) Aug 09 22:48:39 * retracile waves Aug 09 22:48:43 * Dave waves Aug 09 22:48:47 then if Qhartman objects they can respond Aug 09 22:49:01 what do you reckon Tanuva? Aug 09 22:50:20 anyone here know the device node name for the microsd on a FreeRunner? Aug 09 22:50:47 mmc* Aug 09 22:51:06 huh. I don't have any such Aug 09 22:51:22 udev is running... Aug 09 22:51:31 :| Aug 09 22:52:50 dingman: 179, 0 Aug 09 22:53:41 root@om-gta02:~# mknod /dev/mmc b 179 0 Aug 09 22:53:46 fdisk: cannot open /dev/mmc Aug 09 22:54:01 strange Aug 09 22:54:13 that's what mine is Aug 09 22:54:37 Major and minor numbers are assigned statically to drivers in the kernel, so they should match. Aug 09 22:55:07 Unless the hardware is different enough to need different drivers, that is. Aug 09 22:55:15 brw-r----- 1 root disk 179, 0 Aug 9 08:12 /dev/mmcblk0 Aug 09 22:56:56 yup, matches up with what I just created. Aug 09 22:57:15 which means the problem is deeper than a broken udev rule. Aug 09 22:57:42 \leave Aug 09 22:57:45 err sorry Aug 09 22:57:58 is there anyway to get a bt headset to work with freerunner, only instrunction on the wiki are for the neo and don't work Aug 09 22:58:01 you know what driver is associated with the mmc device? Aug 09 22:58:27 fenfir: BlueZ oughta be the same, from what I understand. Aug 09 22:58:47 dingman: ./build/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2_2.6.24+git0+d4b28ec4e2818207cc0e48b90dbce581e0b779e7-r2/git/drivers/mmc/card? Aug 09 22:59:24 dingman: bluez isn't the issue i don't think i can connect the headset i just can't get audio through it, it is an alsa configuration problem Aug 09 22:59:42 dingman: for the neo there was a gsmbluetooth.state file, but there isn't one for freerunner Aug 09 23:00:08 lindi-, I don't have a local build tree. You know the name of the .ko it compiles to? Aug 09 23:00:26 fenfir, Ah. Then I'm going to run into a similar problem later today :) Aug 09 23:01:03 dingman: it doesn't Aug 09 23:01:13 $ grep MMC ./build/tmp/staging/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/kernel/config-2.6.24 Aug 09 23:01:16 CONFIG_MMC=y Aug 09 23:01:55 OK Aug 09 23:01:56 lindi, what specifics am I looking for in xdpyinfo that could help me? :) Aug 09 23:02:00 lindi-, thanks. Aug 09 23:02:19 Dave: i was just wondering if accessing X worked at all Aug 09 23:02:20 that nicely answers the question of whether I needed to modprobe it :) Aug 09 23:02:54 Jarmund: still here? Aug 09 23:03:09 yep Aug 09 23:03:39 Marcel_M: meep Aug 09 23:03:52 dont know if they are working if you like you can test http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/misc/ntfs-3g/ Aug 09 23:04:08 dingman: i get the following messages about mmc after boot: http://lart.no/lpaste/gr3dr/ Aug 09 23:04:11 thanks again Aug 09 23:04:29 Marcel_M: i'll buy a beer and mail it to you if this works Aug 09 23:04:56 :) Aug 09 23:05:33 am I just being too gentle, or is there a lock holding the SD card in that I'm not releasing? Aug 09 23:06:00 i think you just gotta tug on it a bit, mine scares me too in that respect Aug 09 23:06:02 there are one on each side Aug 09 23:06:17 if you flip it from the middle it should snap out Aug 09 23:06:39 Marcel_M: should i go for the dev or the dbg? Aug 09 23:06:56 there's a picture in the getting started in the wiki Aug 09 23:07:01 si-m1, thanks, got it Aug 09 23:07:11 Gonna check in my laptop to make sure the card is OK Aug 09 23:07:16 i'd use the normal ones Aug 09 23:08:12 Marcel_M: uhm, yeah, that's the thing.. opkg is the first package system i've used (i'm more used to /usr/ports).. so which one is "the normal one"? O_o Aug 09 23:08:44 morning all, last night I FDISKed my standard SD which came with FR with ext3 so that I can put 2008.8 on it but there seem to be some suggestion that I was better to use ext2. Suggestions ? Aug 09 23:08:46 si-m1, seems to be something wrong with my card :( Aug 09 23:08:52 use the non -dev or dbg ones Aug 09 23:09:06 Marcel_M: ok, ty Aug 09 23:09:06 When I put it in the laptop, I get"[524705.911651] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card" Aug 09 23:09:16 dont forget to depmod -a after you installed the fuse-module Aug 09 23:09:19 oh, well, thats cheaper/easier to replace then the phone atleast :p Aug 09 23:09:28 That's for sure. Aug 09 23:09:55 But given my schedule it makes it hard to set up a dual-boot with my current setup and QTopia before I head for Chicago tomorrow. Aug 09 23:10:44 hmm Aug 09 23:10:49 hello folks, does anyone know what I need to do to get audio with mplayer on openmoko? I note that /dev/dsp seems to be busy, aoss doesnt help although audio from anything else works fine.. Aug 09 23:11:05 set it to use alsa Aug 09 23:12:04 the mplayer package from angstrom should work out of the box Aug 09 23:12:46 si-m1 it is the mplayer package from angstrom... Aug 09 23:13:19 k.. i just ran mplayer -nocache and it started playing after a while Aug 09 23:13:36 si-m1 it plays, video is fine, just no audio.. Aug 09 23:13:36 si-m1, more complicated. When I remove and re-add the sdhci module, it shows up fine. Aug 09 23:14:15 And now I can hotplug it just fine. Aug 09 23:14:23 strange Aug 09 23:15:00 ajehals: tried -ao alsa ? Aug 09 23:15:05 anyone using navit? Aug 09 23:15:33 si-m1 yeah, and also using aoss, Ill grab a bare image and try from there again... Aug 09 23:15:40 k Aug 09 23:16:20 heh, pulseaudio is idleing at 10% cpu Aug 09 23:17:29 si-m1: see trac, i have a workaround Aug 09 23:17:37 ah, nice Aug 09 23:19:14 w00t Aug 09 23:19:25 Marcel_M: ok, it installed nicely.. now i'll see if i can make it work Aug 09 23:19:45 *crossingfingers* Aug 09 23:21:10 i'm crossing fingers, toes, every hear, as well as crossing my nose with my dick at the moment Aug 09 23:21:11 lindi, and does it? :P Aug 09 23:21:24 since xdpyinfo returned a wealth of info I would presume so...? Aug 09 23:21:44 Jarmund: what have you installed? Aug 09 23:22:02 Zorkman: ntfs-3g Aug 09 23:22:03 Dave: yep Aug 09 23:22:12 * Zorkman is kickin the APA citation rules with a large trout Aug 09 23:23:00 Jarmund: that is to be able to use ntfs format no? why do you want that on your FR if I may ask? Aug 09 23:23:20 seen anything new and/or interesting today dave? Aug 09 23:23:22 Zorkman: because ih ave a 500Gb USB disk that i want to use with my FR when i'm not using it on my workstation Aug 09 23:23:53 good point Aug 09 23:24:15 lindi, cool, but any further advise or path I could go down to try to accomplish it, or do you think it is hopeless? :( Aug 09 23:24:22 hei zorkmann :] Aug 09 23:24:27 what? ntfs on an external disk? Aug 09 23:24:33 that's just stupid Aug 09 23:24:35 Marcel_M: are you the owner of the rabenfrost celltune feed? Aug 09 23:25:01 zash: the disk was never intended to be used on anything else than win32 machines Aug 09 23:25:05 yes its my feed on josc h's server Aug 09 23:25:50 then I want to thank you, because that feed has come in very handy about 10zillion times Aug 09 23:26:03 Dave: reading source of matchbox keyboard? are you even using matchbox? Aug 09 23:26:10 Jarmund: my largest harddrive is ntfs .. it is now in a xubuntu maschine, and i cant reformat it because it is full of stuff, and i have no where to back it up to Aug 09 23:26:30 zash: that's pretty much my case too Aug 09 23:26:41 oh thank you very much its nice to hear that its usefull :) Aug 09 23:26:52 Since i will be spending the next 5 weeks on a ship, i decided to bring my FR for entertainment, and preferably with a crapload of music and audio books as well (well.. video too, but i'm not sure how well that works on the FR for the time being (?) ) Aug 09 23:27:34 lindi, huh? Aug 09 23:27:47 Jarmund: music goes good enough Aug 09 23:27:52 ok we get the contacts from the simcard as it is with names. so how hard could it really be to put the name on a phonecall or text instead of the number. don't know about you guys but i don't have everyones number memorized Aug 09 23:28:09 Zorkman: yep, tested that. Aug 09 23:28:16 lindi, yes I have matchbox-keyboard installed, I even added a taskbar icon for it :) Aug 09 23:28:27 too bad it doesn't appear in full screen apps though :( Aug 09 23:28:38 and I can't switch out to try any tricky tricks Aug 09 23:29:31 OK thats strange, when I lauch mplayer via a remote ssh session audio works fine, if I do it from a terminal (same command) I have no audio... Any ideas? Aug 09 23:30:59 Zorkmann Aug 09 23:31:43 Hi, anyone know where i can download libmokoui2 for Arch? Aug 09 23:32:00 Is there somewhere a package to handle obex on om2007? Aug 09 23:34:17 ajehals: works both for me.... Aug 09 23:34:39 jomat: I am not aware of one sorry Aug 09 23:34:47 Even wierder, if I launch mplayer from a local ssh session (i.e. ssh from the PDA to the PDA at localhost) I get audio but not from remote... I wonder if this is a permissions thing with my set up... Aug 09 23:34:58 data_jepp: What is "Arch"? Aug 09 23:35:43 linux distro :p Aug 09 23:35:49 arch=posessing more spells than usual, see Archmage Aug 09 23:35:53 nevermind! Aug 09 23:36:10 braaaaaaaaaaa Aug 09 23:36:25 Just the source for libmokoui2 since its bitches about not finding it when i try to compile stuff Aug 09 23:36:28 * Dave throws his keyboard at retracile Aug 09 23:36:51 data_jepp: svn.openmoko.org/target/src/OM-2007.2/ Aug 09 23:37:07 gonna go sleep, bye everybody Aug 09 23:37:40 :o Aug 09 23:37:43 truste Aug 09 23:37:51 Ok, thx. I've another question: I want to back up all my SMS. I've stopped gsmd with the init-script and tried to connect to /dev/ttySAC0 with cu, but it says "permission denied" and "line in use". I try it as root, and fuser /dev/ttySAC0 looks clean... Aug 09 23:38:05 * jomat waves ZzZzZzzzzZorkman Aug 09 23:40:05 Marcel_M: i love you as much as it is heterosexually posible Aug 09 23:40:23 it works :D Aug 09 23:40:50 hahah oh gawd Aug 09 23:40:53 yeah great! Aug 09 23:41:06 thanks for testing :) Aug 09 23:41:23 Jarmund, as much as daily openmoko updates? ;) Aug 09 23:41:32 Dave: better Aug 09 23:41:49 ;D Aug 09 23:42:06 jomat: obex -> http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/misc/ Aug 09 23:42:29 oh god, no >_< Aug 09 23:42:39 lindi-: nice, the workaround worked nicely Aug 09 23:42:52 i was going to create a playlist for testing, but accidently added the entire harddrive instead of just one song, lol Aug 09 23:43:20 Jarmund: /dev/urandom is a classic tune :) Aug 09 23:43:22 Jarmund - dont worry you are not alone... Aug 09 23:43:30 si-m1: you wouldn't happen to have usb keyboard working? ;) Aug 09 23:43:56 Thanks. Aug 09 23:44:45 Yeah, they also have numptyphysics! *smile* Aug 09 23:44:48 if i under Aug 09 23:44:58 *sorry Aug 09 23:45:14 :) Aug 09 23:45:39 if i understand correctly, SHR is really what i want on my FreeRunner... Aug 09 23:46:23 lindi-: working on what? =) Aug 09 23:46:47 SHR is not available yet so we now wait or contribute 'til it's released Aug 09 23:46:49 si-m1: on freerunner Aug 09 23:46:52 si-m1: under X Aug 09 23:47:01 nope, not really Aug 09 23:47:05 xmpp: ok Aug 09 23:47:13 xmpp: and try to figure out how to compile it ;) Aug 09 23:47:15 Dave: hi Aug 09 23:47:20 next FR-project of pervertion: getting USB soundcard up and working properly Aug 09 23:47:37 Hi Joerg!! :) Aug 09 23:48:19 How are you doing, Joerg? Aug 09 23:48:37 hungry :-) time for Aug 09 23:48:41 err breakfast Aug 09 23:48:48 dinner ? Aug 09 23:49:17 which one is it!? Aug 09 23:49:28 pick a timezone or use $food :) Aug 09 23:49:31 I always thing you are in your own unique timezone, Joerg! Aug 09 23:49:34 yeah :P Aug 09 23:49:34 haha Aug 09 23:49:35 the first one for last 12h Aug 09 23:49:48 * Dave sends jOERG_rw SIGFOOD Aug 09 23:50:35 that could cause him to crash out with a pizza, I hope you know what you are doing :) Aug 09 23:50:42 trap "cat >/dev/null" SIGFOOD Aug 09 23:51:11 aww :[ Aug 09 23:51:21 how wasteful! Aug 09 23:51:29 * Dave steals joerg's electrons Aug 09 23:51:40 all your coulumbs are belong to me! Aug 09 23:51:43 >:-[ Aug 09 23:51:52 shit, speaking of which, I wish my batteries would charge all the way :( Aug 09 23:51:58 all your base are belong to us Aug 09 23:52:08 all our power issues are belong to you :) Aug 09 23:52:13 :D Aug 09 23:52:22 (whether you like it or not) Aug 09 23:52:23 erm do yours only seemingly charge to 90% too? Aug 09 23:52:33 tig, no, worse Aug 09 23:52:40 ah :( Aug 09 23:52:42 two of mine max out at 35% and 58% Aug 09 23:52:47 respectively Aug 09 23:52:54 erk :( Aug 09 23:53:00 yeah it's pretty terrible Aug 09 23:53:01 reading of culoumb ? Aug 09 23:53:17 what's worse, is when I switch the batteries, they charge up more, but stop after another low level Aug 09 23:53:21 like 73% or something Aug 09 23:53:22 o_O Aug 09 23:53:25 very strange Aug 09 23:53:34 yup Aug 09 23:53:34 * Dave checked the terminal voltage too :x Aug 09 23:53:58 oh yeah joerg, did you see my monitor story from earlier? Aug 09 23:54:10 who tells they are stopping to charge? Aug 09 23:54:19 monitor - nope Aug 09 23:54:22 joerg, they begin discharging! Aug 09 23:54:25 that is how I know! Aug 09 23:54:32 says who Aug 09 23:54:49 coulomb counter Aug 09 23:54:54 hmmm Aug 09 23:54:57 it goes down... until it dies :P Aug 09 23:55:03 I'd say it's correct :P Aug 09 23:55:17 or it stays at a specific lower level Aug 09 23:55:18 probably we really have to tackle this proble Aug 09 23:55:19 which it reports Aug 09 23:55:33 Joerg, and it's weird how I switch phones and it charges it a little more, but then stops Aug 09 23:55:58 it keeps it above 50% but never gets more than say 58 or 59% or spec'ed max Aug 09 23:56:02 how well does video playback work on FR? Aug 09 23:56:06 so what's not charging? specific phone or specific batery? Aug 09 23:56:19 if "decent" { which players are recommended? mplayer? } Aug 09 23:56:26 joerg, well, good question, I have two batteries which don't charge up all the way that they should Aug 09 23:56:33 I have switched them between phones and charging methods today Aug 09 23:56:38 and yesterday, with no luck Aug 09 23:56:39 on same phone? Aug 09 23:56:46 Jarmund: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ Aug 09 23:56:54 should I try more than two phones? Aug 09 23:57:00 musical battiers -_-; Aug 09 23:57:00 nope Aug 09 23:57:03 batteries Aug 09 23:57:15 I figured with two phones it rules out that one phone has charging problems, right? Aug 09 23:57:25 right Aug 09 23:57:37 I was going to completely discharge it Aug 09 23:57:47 but wasn't sure that was the best option, as the problem may occur agan Aug 09 23:57:54 again Aug 09 23:58:13 maybe coulumb counter is wrong? Aug 09 23:58:38 o_O Aug 09 23:58:40 Impossible!? Aug 09 23:58:45 at least for xx% charge status Aug 09 23:58:46 no, i did it Aug 09 23:58:58 rooly, you did what? Aug 09 23:59:02 nothing Aug 09 23:59:04 -_- Aug 09 23:59:05 just saying it Aug 09 23:59:08 being unruly Aug 09 23:59:09 -_-; Aug 09 23:59:22 it does have it's advantages Aug 09 23:59:52 Dave: counter has to reset when known state of bat is reached. otherwise it counts crap Aug 09 23:59:57 is there anywhere i can find a damned jvm? Aug 10 00:00:10 ongehoorzamepik! Aug 10 00:00:14 in ipk format, of course Aug 10 00:00:20 joerg, right :o Aug 10 00:01:04 oh, so you're thinking that maybe if it never reset when I [hot] switched batteries... it could be full, but reporting the old battery state + new differential? XD Aug 10 00:01:05 rooly|away: there was some stuff posted on the planet about someone getting a basic jvm running but I was not paying attention Aug 10 00:01:14 read that long time ago Aug 10 00:01:15 I've gotten jalimo running fine Aug 10 00:01:21 jamvm? Aug 10 00:01:24 I've even run java apps over several phones Aug 10 00:01:26 :P Aug 10 00:01:32 even when less accurate, a reading of actual battery voltage is your best bet on charge state then Aug 10 00:01:35 it wasn't particularly fun, but not difficult Aug 10 00:01:36 yeah, but i've got a media player here that wants a vm and doesn't seem to recognize it Aug 10 00:01:43 joerg, yeah :P Aug 10 00:02:26 joerg, but here, for instance, I have two batteries where I have rebooted the phone several times, but it always STOPS charging at 58% or thereabouts Aug 10 00:02:33 retracile returns! Aug 10 00:02:47 Mwaahahahahahahahaahah! Aug 10 00:02:56 * rooly|away cowers in mockery Aug 10 00:02:58 * Dave cackles along with retracile. Aug 10 00:03:13 * retracile grins at rooly|away :) Aug 10 00:03:16 >:) Aug 10 00:03:27 retracile, Xkeyboard please! Aug 10 00:03:44 * Dave hopes he did not incur any injury from his flying keyboard from earlier. Aug 10 00:03:45 * rooly|away is having trouble with sms Aug 10 00:04:09 about the 90%: PMU switches from constant current charging to constant voltage at a certain charge level. last 10% are verrry slow to charge up. and system might report "stopped charging" despite bat charges up further Aug 10 00:04:31 my phone refuses to turn off charging mode Aug 10 00:04:41 which is basically killing the battery life from 10 to 5 hours Aug 10 00:04:56 nah, it refuses to change the icon. that's sth completely different! Aug 10 00:05:05 no, it's not Aug 10 00:05:13 apm reports that the battery is in charge mode Aug 10 00:05:31 no joerg, but I can confirm that it is DISCHARGING Aug 10 00:05:37 I have scientific proof! Aug 10 00:06:01 * rooly|away has been having to use apm to moniter his battery life... Aug 10 00:06:07 I give a shit on APM. I read out PMU-registers. everything else is just guess and bet and hope for luck Aug 10 00:06:14 the freerunner is still a foetus telephone Aug 10 00:06:41 not the point Aug 10 00:06:59 xmpp: not true, I can't abort my freerunner. I have it now, whether or like it or not Aug 10 00:07:43 it's so not ready to be a main phone Aug 10 00:08:05 rooly|away: i don't see how "it refuses to change" can reduce batery life :-/ Aug 10 00:08:13 joerg, I'd say my multimeter is more accurate :p Aug 10 00:08:24 i'm disapointed 2008.8 is unreliable to recieve calls and sms Aug 10 00:08:38 err "refuses to turn off charging" Aug 10 00:08:43 o_O Aug 10 00:08:46 bzzzzzzap Aug 10 00:08:56 exploding freerunners Aug 10 00:08:59 scary Aug 10 00:09:38 Dave: see above: charging NEVER is switched off Aug 10 00:09:49 hmm Aug 10 00:09:55 it simply changes from constant I to Vmax Aug 10 00:10:00 you mean it should at least be running off the power supplied to it? Aug 10 00:11:19 there is some strange issue with bat-charger, and Andy is switching off bat-charge for some reason I never understood (andy=kernel). but that's not to stop charging on full battery Aug 10 00:11:36 then why does the coulomb counter decrease, and the device eventually shuts off, even though it is plugged in!? wtf :( Aug 10 00:12:15 like I said, it's connected to constant volage, and stops charging by mere physics : no voltage diference=no current Aug 10 00:12:28 like when mine hits 58 @3.88 Aug 10 00:12:37 yeah Aug 10 00:12:39 that's what we should check carefully Aug 10 00:12:46 :| Aug 10 00:12:58 mine was running slighty undervolted according to my readings today Aug 10 00:13:05 3.88 isn't charge end voltage, it's somewhere in between Aug 10 00:13:08 but sometimes it'd shoot up momentarily Aug 10 00:13:10 yeah Aug 10 00:13:20 * Dave shrugs Aug 10 00:13:30 I think I am going to take it apart and test the hell out of it Aug 10 00:13:42 run a script to dump PMU-regs once a minute? Aug 10 00:13:49 I am unsatisfied with all this fucking mystery surrounding the many unresolved power issues I have :) Aug 10 00:13:49 just to suggest... Aug 10 00:14:07 joerg, sure, if you'd like to read it over ;) Aug 10 00:14:16 sure i will Aug 10 00:14:42 oh and would that give you any useful or noticible info for when the battery trip shuts it off? Aug 10 00:14:47 temperature Aug 10 00:14:49 :P Aug 10 00:14:54 or is that completely internal? Aug 10 00:14:58 Is this why if I leave my FR on charge for a long time (ie about a day) on the wall charger it is not fully charged or should I sod off for a bit so you two can sort this out? Aug 10 00:15:02 knock on wood - we killed noise issue MAYBE yesterday. So I need a new bugger ;-) Aug 10 00:15:45 jOERG_rw: MAYBE meaning that someone needs to confirm it? If so, who does that, if not you? Aug 10 00:16:20 What was the consensus on the fastest filesystem type for the uSD card? ext2? Aug 10 00:16:35 isn't it always? :DDD Aug 10 00:16:39 XorA|gone: you there? Aug 10 00:16:53 bkrus1, watch out, he might eat you! Aug 10 00:17:00 abraxa_: we had some dozen "fixes" of noise issue. I dn't believe ANYTHING until tested on a sufficient number of devices in sufficient different situations Aug 10 00:17:10 Dave: Nah, me and Xora are cool Aug 10 00:17:14 :p Aug 10 00:17:26 joerg, congratulations :) Aug 10 00:17:31 retracile: In general yes, though some cheap SD cards *supposedly* don't do wear leveling. ext2 would be a bad choice for such cards Aug 10 00:17:40 joerg, be glad you don't have andy's job :D Aug 10 00:17:51 I'm sure you're crazy enough as it is ;) Aug 10 00:18:00 mine and Andy's aren't that different Aug 10 00:18:37 No, but, dealing with US is :D Aug 10 00:18:47 I'd like to try nilfs but I son;t have the sills to implement. Aug 10 00:18:52 abraxa_: I'm doing swap to this card as well, since openmoko-today and hald appear to have memory leaks. Aug 10 00:19:00 http://www.nilfs.org/en/ Aug 10 00:19:10 retracile, they leak worse than a ten year old crusty pair of pampers! Aug 10 00:19:15 not to mention neod :P Aug 10 00:19:46 I have FDISKed my standard FR SD card (512) with 8M fat partion 1 and remainder with ext2. Now want to install 2008.8 anything I should know before I start ? Aug 10 00:19:49 and unfortunately, tango too :[ Aug 10 00:19:53 but not to egregiously Aug 10 00:20:05 wonder how long my new room-mate needs from airport to apartment - maybe SIGFOOD can't be blocked for any longer ;-) Aug 10 00:20:26 :D Aug 10 00:20:34 Joerg, it's a persistent state! Aug 10 00:20:42 You can't ignore it forever ;) Aug 10 00:20:45 Dave: ah, that would explain why tango rarely manages to complete it's +6 map download... Aug 10 00:21:02 to say the least Aug 10 00:21:06 Try leaving it on for 24hr Aug 10 00:21:10 jOERG_rw: or if you do, it'll convert to SIGKILL.... Aug 10 00:21:12 usually one has to hard restart Aug 10 00:21:20 lol Aug 10 00:21:22 is it possible to use something like ntpdate, only reading the time from GPS instead of an ntp server? Aug 10 00:21:23 if it hasn't shut off already from overheating, etc :D Aug 10 00:21:32 retracile :o Aug 10 00:21:39 jarmund, sure! Aug 10 00:21:43 if you trust it! Aug 10 00:21:50 Dave: I've found mine is ok for closer to 48hrs.... but that's just sitting there with no stimulus. Aug 10 00:21:57 I for one, not living in europe, certainly do not :P Aug 10 00:22:03 retracile, yeah Aug 10 00:22:08 well, me, living in europe do Aug 10 00:22:17 well.. more than i trust my wristwatch, atleast Aug 10 00:22:21 retracile, and it's probably not constantly connected to 12 or so satellites and doing stuff Aug 10 00:22:25 it builds up like a mofo Aug 10 00:22:29 I believe it caches EVERYTHING Aug 10 00:22:40 especially with respect to map movement Aug 10 00:22:42 and pathing Aug 10 00:22:56 after a while it can no longer display it properly Aug 10 00:22:56 lovely. Well, I want to get my usb keyboard working in X. After that, I can worry about other things. Aug 10 00:22:57 i was thinking of having it as abackup for when i don't have internet access Aug 10 00:23:08 but after a while it takes ~1-3min to deactivate the screensaver Aug 10 00:23:14 so I give up after it eventually halts Aug 10 00:23:21 ok Aug 10 00:23:23 retracile, yes please! Aug 10 00:23:26 Jarmund: someone at SW is actually considering it Aug 10 00:23:31 I need to save my scumm game! Aug 10 00:23:37 jOERG_rw: ok, sweet Aug 10 00:23:37 but can't press F5 :( Aug 10 00:23:43 Jarmund: mickeyl? Aug 10 00:23:50 Dave: heh. Yeah. Aug 10 00:23:57 where are sms messages stored on disk ? Aug 10 00:23:57 what? Aug 10 00:24:18 I was so disappointed too, because I actually progressed quite far in it this morning since I was all excited I more or less got the pointer bug fixed :p Aug 10 00:25:10 Dave: send me your mail adress. maybe i find some minutes to write a script eventually Aug 10 00:25:11 Dave: I'm going to have to implement my own variant of the keyboard at some point. I want something similar to the jumpx keyboard... but maybe hexagon based. Aug 10 00:25:31 Joerg, okay :) Aug 10 00:25:58 he arrived Aug 10 00:26:02 Yay Aug 10 00:26:13 * jOERG_rw away for SIGFOOD reset Aug 10 00:26:14 retracile kinky! Aug 10 00:26:18 Joerg :) Aug 10 00:26:21 Enjoy! Aug 10 00:26:29 thanx Aug 10 00:26:34 :] Aug 10 00:27:17 Dave: jumpx is what I use on my Zaurus. For letters it's great. But they needed to give more thought to the rest of the keys. Aug 10 00:27:37 right :[ Aug 10 00:27:50 Well, Ctrl+S would probably do fine right now Aug 10 00:27:53 * retracile -> story time Aug 10 00:27:57 If I am setting up 2008.8 on sd card, do I just wget the rootfs.tar.gz into my home before I untar to the sd partion ? is there sufficient space or do I need to use some other trick ? Aug 10 00:27:59 some one give me a friggin' keyboard :) Aug 10 00:28:13 retracile you have permission to hotwire my freerunner keyboard :) Aug 10 00:41:10 Dave: heh :) I just need to get the hang of this dev env. Aug 10 00:43:13 heh, i was about to ask if apt was a weird bot, or something, lol Aug 10 00:43:37 hmm... that came about 3 hours after it would have made sende.. so disregard Aug 10 00:43:45 (forgot that i was scrolled up) Aug 10 00:44:38 Jarmund: heh. I like that sed feature of apt Aug 10 00:45:13 are you referring to the regex? Aug 10 00:45:41 Jarmund: yeah Aug 10 00:46:01 hehe, yeah, that's what i was commenting on.. Aug 10 00:46:19 What I don't understand is why something (wifi) that worked in ASU 20080806 is broken in OM 20080808. Aug 10 00:46:30 do i need libmokoui2 to compile with the la Aug 10 00:46:35 me, just like many others have a tendency of using s///; to correct spelling mistakes, so i was wondering if apt was a bot for correcting typos, lol Aug 10 00:47:49 retracile :) Aug 10 00:47:58 Wow, slow night. Aug 10 00:48:09 slow users :P Aug 10 00:48:19 yeh Aug 10 00:48:20 no wonder there are few fixes, and they take a while XD Aug 10 00:48:51 hello! Any chances of the freerunner prices going down soon? Aug 10 00:49:14 hehe Aug 10 00:49:20 well, the quality should go up, so then the price are lower, so to speak Aug 10 00:49:20 apply for a mortgage! Aug 10 00:50:04 well, it also doesn't seem to have support from the only network that really works at my school, so, that's another downside Aug 10 00:50:16 can someone link me to somewhere to get the new asu working with qemu? Aug 10 00:50:30 everywhere on the wiki seems to do qtopia Aug 10 00:50:42 or that seems to be how it's setup by default anyway Aug 10 00:51:00 (using makefile) Aug 10 01:00:22 * Dave gives retracile his usb keyboard Aug 10 01:00:42 heh Aug 10 01:01:15 wish it'd help me here :| Aug 10 01:02:13 ok, opkg question: I want to upgrade all my kernel packages to a version I just built. Will "opkg install *.ipk" do the right thing, or cause me grief? Aug 10 01:02:31 if you force it, that should work fine Aug 10 01:02:35 :] Aug 10 01:02:42 just hope you didn't fuck anything up :D Aug 10 01:03:12 -force-reinstall ? Aug 10 01:03:57 has anyone got the new asu image working with qemu? Aug 10 01:04:24 sure Aug 10 01:04:34 or just --force it till it hurts >:) Aug 10 01:04:44 MAKE IT TAKE IT! Aug 10 01:04:54 Dave: Hrm. It's trying to download the packages. :( Aug 10 01:05:09 with --force-reinstall? Aug 10 01:07:06 another question - does verizon support GSM? I keep finding articles saying they plan to... but, what about now? Aug 10 01:07:15 Dave: with anything Aug 10 01:07:22 fisxoj: no Aug 10 01:07:31 retracile, it works fine Aug 10 01:07:48 opkg install somefile.ipk Aug 10 01:07:53 or *.ipk even Aug 10 01:07:57 root@om-gta02:/media/card/tmp/to_install# opkg install ./kernel-2.6.24_2.6.24+git2+241f69c55ee8f5dd067ebd2d51aa9fdedb212759-r2e_om-gta01.ipk Aug 10 01:07:57 Package kernel-2.6.24 (2:2.6.24+git27+1a95efdc23966343a3b432ceef2f6c24dc0e2052-r2) installed in root is up to date. Aug 10 01:08:09 ah, right Aug 10 01:08:12 (note git2+ vs git27+ ) Aug 10 01:08:17 it thinks they're the same version Aug 10 01:08:24 so, make it your bitch Aug 10 01:08:31 tell IT what to do :) Aug 10 01:08:48 note also -r2e_om, vs -r2 Aug 10 01:09:03 eh? Aug 10 01:09:08 sounds like a ricer cflag? Aug 10 01:09:41 Dave: with -force-reinstall, it tries to download the git27 version Aug 10 01:10:08 blah Aug 10 01:10:30 did you try --force-downgrade? Aug 10 01:10:48 or --force-overwrite? Aug 10 01:10:48 Dave: Yep, that gives me: Package kernel-2.6.24 (2:2.6.24+git27+1a95efdc23966343a3b432ceef2f6c24dc0e2052-r2) installed in root is up to date. Aug 10 01:10:54 bah Aug 10 01:11:18 or maybe you can be sneaky and just try the regular command with --offline? ;) Aug 10 01:11:24 I'm just a wee bit hesitant to try opkg remove. Aug 10 01:11:33 Ah... that's an idea. Aug 10 01:11:34 :P Aug 10 01:11:51 :| Aug 10 01:12:00 That doesn't seem to do what I thought... Aug 10 01:13:52 Even removing a package doesn't get around it. Aug 10 01:14:03 (I erased kernel-module-gadgetfs ) Aug 10 01:14:07 haha Aug 10 01:14:10 shitty Aug 10 01:14:34 haha man the opkg info has several typos in it Aug 10 01:14:44 pesky foreigners Aug 10 01:15:03 can someone please explain the difference between 'Om2008.8-gta02-20080808.rootfs.tar.gz' and 'Om2008.8.rootfs.tar.gz' at http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8/ Aug 10 01:15:15 opkg motherfuckinginstall *.ipk Aug 10 01:15:44 same for the *.uImage.bin Aug 10 01:17:57 or to put it another way, which should I be using to put on my SD to install 2008.8 Aug 10 01:19:01 it's all good Aug 10 01:19:05 I hear it won't matter Aug 10 01:19:22 Dave, that aimed at me ? Aug 10 01:19:32 Yes Aug 10 01:19:44 Dave, ok many thanks Aug 10 01:20:08 hipitihop_: I'd wager a guess that one is a link to the other. ie they're the same. Aug 10 01:20:48 retracile, probably right, thanks Aug 10 01:21:20 yeah Aug 10 01:21:25 there's a lot of that crap in the repos Aug 10 01:21:31 hipitihop_: download the two small ones and compare 'em? Aug 10 01:21:37 I've been meaning to beat whoever maintains it. Aug 10 01:22:07 Dave: when you have a git revision number in a filename, it's nice to have a -latest link. Aug 10 01:22:54 retracile: you could rename the om-gta02 lines in /var/lib/opkg if -force-downgrade doesnt work Aug 10 01:23:30 retracile: according to alphaone it's totally fucked up Aug 10 01:23:42 and opkg doesn't do the git file revisions/hashes properly anyway Aug 10 01:23:50 so I wouldn't trust it at all! Aug 10 01:23:56 lovely Aug 10 01:24:16 Yep! Aug 10 01:24:37 Marcel_M: I don't follow you... Aug 10 01:24:43 Apparently there's [at least] two different git hash+revision number schemes, and opkg can't use one or both or the other Aug 10 01:24:46 something like that Aug 10 01:24:56 I stopped trying to understand it, when I discovered opkg couldn't! Aug 10 01:24:58 :P Aug 10 01:25:11 Dave: that's a low bar to set... Aug 10 01:25:14 seemed like a logical step in preserving my productivity, not to mention my sanity. Aug 10 01:25:17 heh heh Aug 10 01:26:09 the packagelists are in /var/lib/opkg/* if you rename the om-gta02 files opkg should not know about other packages maybe it works then Aug 10 01:26:39 Marcel_M: eww. I might resort to that, but... ewwwww. Aug 10 01:27:08 yes it bad i know Aug 10 01:27:14 yeah, eww, cooties. Aug 10 01:28:08 sorry, I'm still busy laughing at this... http://tinyurl.com/6bhld2 Aug 10 01:29:02 lollerhillbillies Aug 10 01:32:34 With the mokomakefile, will 'make openmoko-devel-image' create the rootfs image & kernel image? Aug 10 01:34:12 who knows! Aug 10 01:34:27 it does Aug 10 01:34:57 Marcel_M: thanks. At this point, I think I'll try that and see if that will work. Aug 10 01:35:14 you're welcome Aug 10 01:37:48 retracile - for me, i think it creates qtopia or something Aug 10 01:38:02 i haven't got either the old or the new asu images working yet Aug 10 01:39:22 ok I have copied 2008.8 rootfs and bin to sd card. I'm following the wiki for booting from SD and next step seems involved, is connection to uboot setenv etc still necessary on gta02 with latest uboot or can I just try and boot from its menu ? Aug 10 01:39:26 ajbrun: I thought that was what 'make openmoko-qtopia-image' would do.. that or 'make openmoko-qtopia-x11-image' Aug 10 01:39:40 me too... Aug 10 01:39:53 you probably don't want to know :P Aug 10 01:40:34 Dave, was that at me again ? Aug 10 01:41:33 ajbrun: I recall there being something you could set so that mokomakefile would build ASU, but by default, I understand it builds 2007.2 or something... Aug 10 01:41:54 hipitihop, no :) Aug 10 01:41:54 i think i know what you mean Aug 10 01:42:03 I was just joshing retracile :P Aug 10 01:42:06 but still whenever i build, it goes back to the old image Aug 10 01:42:12 i must be missing a step or something Aug 10 01:42:28 mmontour, is it normal that i get name=UNDEFINED for the fr with dfu-util ? Aug 10 01:42:56 :o Aug 10 01:43:36 when setting up to boot from SD using latest uboot on FR, is it still necessary to connect to uboot shell and 'setenv boot_menu_timeout 99999' or is that outdated info ? Aug 10 01:44:56 anyone please: is it normal that i get name=UNDEFINED for the FR with dfu-util ? Aug 10 01:45:31 hipitihop_: tmeout is only for bootmenu stay forever, until you select which image to boot Aug 10 01:45:31 cga, define normal, however it does not happen for me Aug 10 01:46:24 hipitihop_, yesterday it was returning something like "DFU device kernel" or something :( i think that's normal Aug 10 01:46:25 Joerg :) Aug 10 01:46:28 jOERG_rw, ok, howver I still need to update the menu entry to match my sd config e.g. have fat with ext2 Aug 10 01:46:34 hipitihop_: latest uboot should be able to boot stright off ext3 Aug 10 01:46:44 yep :D Aug 10 01:46:57 no more fat partitio Aug 10 01:47:02 except I hear booting from sd is problematic/impossible in 20080808 :P Aug 10 01:47:13 maybe XD Aug 10 01:47:31 oh and wifi is [now] "unknown" Aug 10 01:47:56 I like how moving forward, we find ourselves in fact, "moving backwards." Aug 10 01:48:14 2008.08 is a bleeding edge release, expect fixes for the next 4 days ;-) Aug 10 01:48:20 yeah :P Aug 10 01:48:30 guys wre Aug 10 01:48:34 except everyone jumped on it and is now bitching about everything that doesn't work :) Aug 10 01:48:39 jOERG_rw, hmm sounds like I may have gone down a rabit hole, am I better to restart and what SD config do you recommend ? Aug 10 01:48:41 were eager to get it out on 08.08 Aug 10 01:49:55 I'm currently just following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD so sounds like that is out of date Aug 10 01:49:57 hipitihop_: I have no idea about sw. Never seen 2008.08 til now! honestly Aug 10 01:50:37 :D Aug 10 01:50:40 hipitihop_: think so Aug 10 01:50:52 joerg was just out of date, until now! Aug 10 01:50:53 ;) Aug 10 01:51:12 looks like some new info on the 2008.8 page Aug 10 01:51:27 hipitihop_: I guess you have to create an ext3 and copy rootfs.tgz on to it (dont forget to expand ;) Aug 10 01:52:20 hipitihop_: then copy kernel to this, rename to uImage IIRC Aug 10 01:52:52 jOERG_rw, I have gone the fat with umige and ext2 with rootfs as per the WIKI :-( Aug 10 01:54:10 jOERG_rw, lets get in step, are we saying that I should delete all partions on my SD and setup a single partion and format as ext3 ? Aug 10 01:54:28 for this to work (which it could) you have to modify uboot environment, to tell uboot to load kernel from vfat and to boot from a ext2 Aug 10 01:54:37 gahaha I uninstalled alsa* et al Aug 10 01:55:00 jOERG_rw: do you know if works with sdhc cards too? (rootfs and kernel on the card) Aug 10 01:55:50 hipitihop_: I dn't know uttin about this stuff - i told ya! just repeat what I think I remember to read last weeks Aug 10 01:55:52 Why not? Joerg fixed the hardware, right? ;) Aug 10 01:55:57 jOERG_rw, I'm not interested in *could*, since I'm still a bit of a noob I'm happy to go with whatever is the easiest to get going so if I have to restart from scratch, that's finr Aug 10 01:56:53 * hipitihop_ goes to grap a late breakfast to ponder options, back in 10 Aug 10 01:57:01 search community and support ml for ext3, maybe plus uboot. should yield good results Aug 10 01:57:30 jOERG_rw: so no sdhc support in uboot :( Aug 10 01:57:32 gnnn, ***breakfast*** Aug 10 01:57:40 bahaha Aug 10 01:57:50 joerg, didn't you *just* eat? :o Aug 10 01:58:01 I have an awesome fucked up screen screenshot to post somewhere :P Aug 10 01:58:11 still trying to get my fingers off the laptop Aug 10 01:58:47 ;) Aug 10 01:59:10 meanwhile I'm too tired to leave for breakfast :-( Aug 10 01:59:19 aww Aug 10 02:00:23 wow, well, I really fucked up THIS X session :p Aug 10 02:00:51 channel-admin: if I'm posting again in 5 minutes, please kick be off ;-) Aug 10 02:01:01 Okay! :D Aug 10 02:01:15 Don't worry Joerg, we still like you :) Aug 10 02:03:21 Marcel_M: Freerunner u-boot should work with SDHC. Neo1973 u-boot doesn't. Aug 10 02:03:23 if i didnt install the new kernel with the 2008.8 release would that cause the gsm not to work or alsa? Aug 10 02:03:48 mmontour: tx Aug 10 02:05:33 linuxxr: if you DID? Aug 10 02:05:38 it would explain that :p Aug 10 02:05:43 or might, anyway ;) Aug 10 02:06:33 anyone here that knows bash well and want to revision a script for backing up the FR??? Aug 10 02:07:21 backing up? as in, flash? Aug 10 02:08:36 :] Aug 10 02:08:53 c'mon dave! that's worth while Aug 10 02:09:00 Indeed :) Aug 10 02:09:18 her Doctehr! Aug 10 02:09:21 heehee Aug 10 02:09:25 I like it :) Aug 10 02:09:31 * jOERG_rw away for breakfast Aug 10 02:09:32 damnit, i've run out of cheese :( Aug 10 02:09:39 heh Aug 10 02:09:51 and maybe you should be Dr. Dairy :P Aug 10 02:10:02 Dave, mmm backup rootfs splash uimage and all.. Aug 10 02:10:02 could be.. i love dairy products Aug 10 02:10:07 here it goes: http://pastey.net/93412 Aug 10 02:10:08 hehe Aug 10 02:10:12 :D Aug 10 02:10:16 i have an insane consumption of cheese and milk Aug 10 02:10:52 mmontour, would you review "my" script??? Aug 10 02:10:53 I hope it doesn't give you terrible diarrhea Aug 10 02:10:59 it doesn't Aug 10 02:11:03 cga, yeah yeah Aug 10 02:11:14 Dave, ? Aug 10 02:11:15 a friend of mine is certain that i one day will experience death by lactosis Aug 10 02:11:15 cga: there's a bug in dfu-util, messing the retrieval of firmware from FR Aug 10 02:11:25 * Dave warns joerg Aug 10 02:11:31 Don't make me kick you! Aug 10 02:11:38 ;) Aug 10 02:11:45 joerg is away, for breakfast Aug 10 02:11:52 Good evening All Aug 10 02:11:53 Good :) Aug 10 02:11:56 DocScrutinizer, ??? Aug 10 02:12:01 I'll tell him when he's back Aug 10 02:12:02 cga, the doctor is out. Aug 10 02:12:07 oh man Aug 10 02:12:10 I'm taking messages :) Aug 10 02:12:14 don't confuse me Aug 10 02:12:17 Even though I'm not his secretary Aug 10 02:12:18 haha Aug 10 02:12:40 i think i'm gonna go fail at getting some sleep Aug 10 02:12:40 it's past 4am here and i spent the night with that script making Aug 10 02:12:45 brb Aug 10 02:13:04 jOERG_zzZZzz, are you serious about the bug? Aug 10 02:13:08 cga, dont remind me about the time Aug 10 02:13:11 yup Aug 10 02:13:15 arf Aug 10 02:13:15 got to get up in about an hour Aug 10 02:13:17 >_< Aug 10 02:13:27 jOERG_zzZZzz, so it's useless to backup? Aug 10 02:13:36 downloads all 256MB of flash, then ends with an error Aug 10 02:13:42 darn Aug 10 02:13:52 that's why i always get an error Aug 10 02:13:53 nah, not completely useless. but annoying Aug 10 02:14:05 would you look at my script? XD Aug 10 02:14:08 >_> Aug 10 02:14:14 Hello phrozen. Aug 10 02:14:22 lol Aug 10 02:14:23 oh hai Aug 10 02:15:29 jOERG_zzZZzz, so even if it ends with an error the rootfs is correctly backuped? Aug 10 02:15:40 dunno Aug 10 02:15:47 backuped? Aug 10 02:15:48 probably Aug 10 02:15:49 I like that. Aug 10 02:16:05 sleep typing jOERG? Aug 10 02:16:08 Dave, i'm not english mothertongue :P Aug 10 02:16:16 Obviously :) Aug 10 02:16:24 kd8, must be. Aug 10 02:16:25 what's the correct word? Aug 10 02:16:49 backed up Aug 10 02:16:55 so it's close :P Aug 10 02:17:01 english is'nt my primary language? Aug 10 02:17:05 oh darn than i was right ion the first place Aug 10 02:17:10 haha Aug 10 02:17:13 mothertongue Aug 10 02:17:17 i was going to write backed up Aug 10 02:17:48 in soviet russia, tongue backs up you... or something confusingly hilarious Aug 10 02:18:09 eh eh Aug 10 02:18:43 I-T-A-L-I-A \o/ Aug 10 02:19:31 eh eh Aug 10 02:19:46 world champion of mafia! XD Aug 10 02:20:00 damn i think i'm done Aug 10 02:20:08 time to sleep a little bit Aug 10 02:20:12 my head aches Aug 10 02:20:23 tomorrow i continue with the script Aug 10 02:22:25 see you all Aug 10 02:24:16 Aug 10 02:28:49 cga: in your script you can probably hard-code the "-d" parameter to dfu-util (0x1d50/0x5119 or something like that). Aug 10 02:29:17 mmontour, here you go Aug 10 02:29:35 mmontour, is it always the same for every device? Aug 10 02:29:47 last cigarette before sleep btw Aug 10 02:30:43 It'll be the same for all Freerunners. Neo1973 has a different vendor ID. Aug 10 02:30:54 oh man Aug 10 02:31:04 that HEX thing made me crazy Aug 10 02:31:23 well.. i can leave it like that for future devices Aug 10 02:32:01 mmontour, now i go to sleep. are you here tomorrow? (in 6/8 hours) Aug 10 02:32:11 i want to ask you some more info Aug 10 02:32:19 on dfu-util Aug 10 02:33:13 I'm not an expert on it - just ask the question, and someone else may be able to answer it. If not, I'll look through the IRC backlog tomorrow (Canada/Pacific timezone) Aug 10 02:35:06 mmontour, well it's just about the --list Aug 10 02:35:38 is it normal that it returns Found Ruintime .... name=UNDEFINED for the FR ? Aug 10 02:35:59 and sometime DFU something instead of runtime? Aug 10 02:37:22 nite nite all **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 10 02:59:57 2008