**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 31 02:59:56 2008 Aug 31 03:02:08 You are a magic worker. Aug 31 03:02:10 Thanks, shaman! Aug 31 03:02:20 u can switch the sd if its unmounted Aug 31 03:08:53 tunys u have a lkihnux host/ Aug 31 03:20:30 tunys: gsm can't operate from 1A USB-power. So SIM is a NoGo. Aug 31 03:21:13 the latest build for 2008.8 good? Aug 31 03:22:02 slaxxin: what is lkihnux ??? Aug 31 03:25:20 @all: actually one of the most recent U-Boot doesn't start (boot up til GUI) from OM-wallwart-charger. HOLD AUX WHEN INSERTING USB-CHARGER-PLUG! Aug 31 03:26:22 fat fingers? Aug 31 03:26:37 @all: also (in case anybody didn't know) charging doesn't start when device isn't completely booted!!! Aug 31 03:28:39 i have to pjug an unplug to get charger to start\ Aug 31 03:30:35 upgradeing every dang thing Aug 31 03:34:26 hows the new image coming raster? Aug 31 03:34:38 havent started Aug 31 03:34:41 o Aug 31 03:35:21 is there a better keyboard for mmy 2008.8? Aug 31 03:35:27 which? Aug 31 03:36:37 how do I download the maps? Aug 31 03:36:42 todays upgrade looks big Aug 31 03:37:13 tunys from the installer or opkg? Aug 31 03:37:30 opkg Aug 31 03:37:38 or u mean tango maps Aug 31 03:38:14 im saving all my mappage to the sdcard Aug 31 03:38:26 oh, tango maps then Aug 31 03:38:29 where do I get them? Aug 31 03:38:46 just connect to the internet through usb and it should download them automatically Aug 31 03:39:05 change the path to save to a sd card or it goes when you reboot Aug 31 03:39:07 hook up to wireless os usb then they will auto download when u zoom in Aug 31 03:39:44 otherwise u lose them upon reboot Aug 31 03:40:21 mkdir /media/card/maps/OSM Aug 31 03:40:47 may not be correct Aug 31 03:41:31 got them Aug 31 03:42:52 seems accurate Aug 31 03:43:26 though I'm pretty sure that I'm not moving at 2 mph Aug 31 03:43:45 the gps chip seems to give highly inaccurate data Aug 31 03:44:04 well location looks about right to me Aug 31 03:44:06 altitude for sure Aug 31 03:44:21 location is stable for the most part Aug 31 03:44:35 but the altitude will vary 1000 ft in 30 seconds Aug 31 03:45:08 Though I don't seem to be near any roads Aug 31 03:45:11 I'm just on a big lot Aug 31 03:45:16 full of nothing Aug 31 03:45:28 zoomed in? Aug 31 03:45:31 yep Aug 31 03:45:38 there are roads around where I am Aug 31 03:45:41 but not where I am Aug 31 03:45:41 is it grey grey are tan grey Aug 31 03:45:46 *or Aug 31 03:45:49 grey grey Aug 31 03:45:56 then the map may not be downloaded Aug 31 03:46:04 er, tan greay Aug 31 03:46:13 I don't think anyone has drawn my road yet Aug 31 03:46:16 is there a D# on the status bar? Aug 31 03:46:37 wait...i'm thinking your using tango Aug 31 03:46:50 I'm using Tango Aug 31 03:47:04 right, is there a D and some number? Aug 31 03:47:25 But I guess nobody has contributed my neighborhood to OpenStreetMap Aug 31 03:47:32 do it Aug 31 03:47:34 DO IT! Aug 31 03:47:36 no D Aug 31 03:47:39 btw...POI Aug 31 03:47:44 I should contribute Aug 31 03:47:58 it seems that having the FR plugged in but not turned on does do a *little* charging Aug 31 03:48:03 hm, my 1973 magically died twice in one day. This time it was plugged in. I'm starting to think there's a serious problem. Aug 31 03:48:17 maybe the hardware's dying :\ Aug 31 03:48:46 would be nice if there was a way to chroot into an sd card install for the fr with an x86 machine :s Aug 31 03:48:55 what was the 1973 plugged into? It might have only been drawing 100mA from the USB Aug 31 03:49:10 mmontour: my computer Aug 31 03:49:18 Linux or Windows? Aug 31 03:49:31 Linux Aug 31 03:50:09 mmontour: did ya read? my phone died today and i was able to ressurect it by just plugging it in and waiting Aug 31 03:50:15 hmm, should be OK. You might check dmesg to see if it says anything about 500mA Aug 31 03:50:25 (wall charger) Aug 31 03:51:02 rooly|away: it depends what state the PMU is in when you plug it in - some of the settings are preserved even after you remove the battery Aug 31 03:51:49 It also depends what version of u-boot you have - there is a bug in the current one that can cause problems when you boot from the wall charger Aug 31 03:52:40 What does the Mic1 alsa setting control Aug 31 03:52:41 ? Aug 31 03:52:50 hm, headset it seems Aug 31 03:53:50 How do I get the clock on my freerunner? Aug 31 03:56:35 tunys: Settings -> Clock Aug 31 04:01:00 alexxy: I'm sorry, in the 2007.2 software Aug 31 04:01:48 er Aug 31 04:01:51 alx___: Aug 31 04:02:00 alx___: how do I do it in 2007.2 Aug 31 04:02:35 don't know :) just got mine since yesterday, didn't explore 2007.2 too much :) Aug 31 04:03:11 * tunys is keeping 2007.2 just for show and tell Aug 31 04:03:21 I'm being my LUG's guinea pig right now :) Aug 31 04:05:55 :) Aug 31 04:08:18 I'm not sure what it is, but there is something very satisfying about using a command line on my phone Aug 31 04:15:48 raster: do you think there's a chance for me to join your party? :-( Aug 31 04:16:24 DocS__holiday: which one? Aug 31 04:16:25 :) Aug 31 04:16:59 today's one. I'm absolutely fed up :-O°° Aug 31 04:28:49 DocS__holiday: oooh what got you this time? Aug 31 04:29:54 this should be fun :) Aug 31 04:30:48 svn: OPTIONS of 'http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds': could not connect to server (http://svn.openmoko.org) Aug 31 04:30:55 openmoko svn server broken again? Aug 31 04:31:34 DocScrutinizer: lots your internude? Aug 31 04:31:34 DocScrutinizer: can you get someone to kick the openmoko svn server please? Aug 31 04:33:42 rwhitby: roh/gismo can do that Aug 31 04:33:43 i are tired Aug 31 04:34:29 i can haz codeburger? Aug 31 04:38:48 haze? Aug 31 04:39:25 With Mic2 set all the way up and leaving a voicemail, I can barely hear the message... Aug 31 04:39:49 any other alsa setting I should be changing to increase my volume to other people? Aug 31 04:44:39 Does someone know of a guide to imaging a freerunner? i have an install that works, and i'd like to be able to re-image it back if i stuff up my debian install :) Aug 31 04:47:28 Kamping_Kaiser: dfu-util is your best bet, however the upload is currently broken and no one seems to have gathered enough interest to fix it Aug 31 04:47:57 abraxa_, i have a dfu-util from about a month ago, so i'll check out its --help. cheers :) Aug 31 04:48:24 I'm using 2007.2, I've done opkg upgrade Aug 31 04:48:46 yet when I press the power button and click "Lock Screen", it doesn't. Aug 31 04:49:11 abraxa_, ah, i see the option. i should have looked >.<, thanks mate. Aug 31 04:50:22 tunys: You might wanna check trac for a bug report - however, I wouldn't expect this to be fixed Aug 31 04:50:34 yeah :/ Aug 31 04:51:02 tunys: SHR will replace 2007.2 soon, so neod (the part of 2007.2 responsible for the locking) will be replaced entirely Aug 31 04:51:21 * ieatlint just offended an old friend he hadn't talked to in years by calling php hackish :( Aug 31 04:51:28 :/ Aug 31 04:51:38 ThePizzaKing, hello there Aug 31 04:51:47 ieatlint, you'd be right though :|} Aug 31 04:51:47 Hi Kamping_Kaiser Aug 31 04:52:30 yeah, any language that doesn't have perceivable data types is definitely hackish Aug 31 04:53:35 not having strict data types puts it into the potentially very messy category... like using c++ for structured programming Aug 31 04:54:43 well, unfortunately i've sobered up :( Aug 31 04:54:51 fortunately this means i can drive home Aug 31 04:56:56 hehe Aug 31 04:58:19 * raster hugs his casts Aug 31 04:58:24 (void *) Aug 31 04:58:25 yay! Aug 31 04:58:26 :) Aug 31 04:59:25 ** You are hit by the void ** Aug 31 04:59:28 ** You die ** Aug 31 04:59:37 ** Would you like your possessions identified? ** Aug 31 04:59:41 * johnsu01 frowns at trolltech using vmware for the qtopia sdk Aug 31 04:59:47 Kamping_Kaiser: hahaha Aug 31 05:01:21 johnsu01: what other options does trolltech have for what I presume is a majority of windows users for their SDK ? Aug 31 05:02:03 they could be cast into the (void *) Aug 31 05:02:13 and we could listen to the wailing and gnashing of teeth Aug 31 05:02:20 and smile Aug 31 05:02:21 :) Aug 31 05:02:26 :) Aug 31 05:03:01 heh - easy to say when you're not the one running the business. Synopsys (an EDA vendor) reports a > 90% windows usage rate for embedded software developers ... Aug 31 05:03:38 that would be a big number of dollars for trolltech to ignore by only putting out a linux solution ... Aug 31 05:04:11 there are other VMs that are not 'linux only' Aug 31 05:04:31 raster: just define every variable as void Aug 31 05:04:37 Kamping_Kaiser: I'm interested to hear of others that are well known and run on windows ... Aug 31 05:04:40 then make your own typedefs Aug 31 05:04:44 and cast Aug 31 05:04:51 it'll make your code much more readable Aug 31 05:06:09 ieatlint: void is good! love your voids! Aug 31 05:06:52 rwhitby: the majority of people writing freerunner apps are windows users? Aug 31 05:06:55 rwhitby: aaah but you see.. i i dont need to worry - i can look forward to the wailing and gnashing of teeth! Aug 31 05:06:55 rwhitby, 'well known'? for what value of well known? virtualbox comes to mind, as something cross-platform. Aug 31 05:06:56 :) Aug 31 05:08:24 wow, the gang's all here Aug 31 05:09:07 just make a secretive include file that you don't release that does like "typedef char varx" for all the data types, so that it's extremely difficult to read Aug 31 05:11:02 bah Aug 31 05:11:05 varx is too easy Aug 31 05:11:16 is there an updated feed for fso? Aug 31 05:11:16 typedef int bsuiksdl7 Aug 31 05:11:26 typedef char iouwni3fsd Aug 31 05:11:41 #define printf iuhew2kjncd Aug 31 05:11:42 pjz: beyone testing and unstable? Aug 31 05:11:43 ... Aug 31 05:12:44 *beyond Aug 31 05:13:10 undrwater: no, those are what I was looking for : Aug 31 05:13:25 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories#FSO Aug 31 05:13:42 * pjz nods Aug 31 05:13:50 * pjz shoulda read the wwiki before opening his yap Aug 31 05:14:21 rwhitby: if no one's said it lately, thanks for all your work on the FR Aug 31 05:14:50 can we have a group hug? raster is here too!! Aug 31 05:14:51 :D Aug 31 05:14:54 raster: ok, make your preprocessor that randomises them Aug 31 05:15:37 ieatlint: perfect! and then GPL the code and say its open Aug 31 05:15:50 so u get all the open source groupies hugging you Aug 31 05:15:58 johnsu01: freerunner is a very small minority for trolltech's sdk users Aug 31 05:16:02 and still keep your code nicely closed :) Aug 31 05:16:02 sounds like android Aug 31 05:16:03 hehehe Aug 31 05:16:22 rwhitby: I get it, windows user, vmware, easy. I'm still going to frown :) Aug 31 05:16:27 s/usr/users Aug 31 05:16:31 <--groupie Aug 31 05:16:33 Kamping_Kaiser: virtualbox runs on windows and is commercially supported? Aug 31 05:16:40 undrwater: group hugs ... how about group drinking bouts? Aug 31 05:16:41 :) Aug 31 05:16:43 raster: yep, then do things like removing all newline chars in your code Aug 31 05:16:44 ieatlint: :) Aug 31 05:16:48 raster: that works for me too... Aug 31 05:16:51 johnsu01: I'm seriously interested in alternatives, since I need to support Linux on windows too Aug 31 05:16:55 ieatlint: excellent Aug 31 05:17:00 "e17 is only 1 line of code!" Aug 31 05:17:04 lol Aug 31 05:17:07 (a very long line... but just 1 line) Aug 31 05:17:15 pjz: thx Aug 31 05:17:51 i installed e17 on my desktop yesterday Aug 31 05:17:55 ok, i'm going to pack up and head home... am at a development party that's dying fast Aug 31 05:18:17 rwhitby, dunno, never wanted to test either bit of the question. Aug 31 05:18:20 ieatlint: grab as many beers as you can before you leave Aug 31 05:18:33 Kamping_Kaiser: thx for the pointer - I'm going to have a look at virtualbox Aug 31 05:18:40 rwhitby: Sun does indeed have VirtualBox for windows x86 and amd64 Aug 31 05:18:58 * rwhitby genuinely hadn't heard of virtualbox before ... Aug 31 05:19:07 bbl Aug 31 05:19:34 undrwater: has it blow up your monitor yet? Aug 31 05:20:01 raster: yes....but the room has that 'alien" feel to it now...kinda like it Aug 31 05:20:08 undrwater: that loses its edge when you help set it up Aug 31 05:20:08 hahaha Aug 31 05:20:23 undrwater: btw - u want to try the b_and_w them in themes/ Aug 31 05:20:34 that will be the new default... once its complete Aug 31 05:22:27 raster: i didn't see it in the install...still only bling...using gentoo with e overlay...i figured it would pull it in...but apparently not Aug 31 05:22:42 undrwater: itns in svn Aug 31 05:22:46 and no Aug 31 05:22:47 gentoo wont Aug 31 05:22:51 rwhitby, no worries. theres some people at my work looking at it so they can run a windows VM to connect to the corp. network Aug 31 05:22:51 is access documented? Aug 31 05:22:52 gentoo is behind Aug 31 05:22:55 hanst moved to svn Aug 31 05:22:56 OK Aug 31 05:23:04 old is cvs? Aug 31 05:23:08 yes Aug 31 05:23:10 i wasn't paying attention Aug 31 05:23:17 cvs is still up to stop old stuff breaking totally Aug 31 05:23:25 ahhh Aug 31 05:23:27 but i will nuke cvs within the next few weeks Aug 31 05:23:35 so things WILL break then unless they have moved Aug 31 05:23:53 OK...so best bet is to remove all that cvs stuff and just do manual with svn? Aug 31 05:24:35 undrwater: ...or use easy_e17 :) Aug 31 05:24:55 oohhh...undrwater likes easy! :) Aug 31 05:25:43 Hm. I could've sworn easy_e17 uses SVN... but I guess it wasn't updated yet :( Aug 31 05:26:39 well...even the cvs stuff is so much nicer now than it was....more stable and quick! Aug 31 05:27:12 raster: will the new file manager include any internal networking support? Aug 31 05:27:44 undrwater: no - thats what fuse is for Aug 31 05:27:45 :) Aug 31 05:27:48 thought so Aug 31 05:27:58 http://www.rasterman.com/files/get_e.sh Aug 31 05:27:59 gets e17 Aug 31 05:28:02 i used fuse w/ xfce Aug 31 05:28:04 only what u need - from svn Aug 31 05:28:19 fuse is how networkj f's SHOULD be done Aug 31 05:28:21 thanks! :) Aug 31 05:28:25 abstracted thru the normal fs layer Aug 31 05:28:27 then everything works Aug 31 05:28:34 tar, gzip, ls, rm, etc. Aug 31 05:28:37 as wel as filemanagers Aug 31 05:29:01 fuse and OOo don't (or didn't) work well together tho Aug 31 05:30:51 they should work just fine Aug 31 05:30:56 What am I missing? Using Makefile OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.stable ( bitbake openmoko-qtopia-x11-image u-boot-openmoko ) ) only show ERROR: no files to build. ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'openmoko-qtopia-x11-image' (but '[]' DEPENDS on or otherwise requires it) same with build-package-package-indexbuild-package-package-index.. make update look ok. Seem to be using subversion instead of git.. Aug 31 05:31:03 as OOo should have no clue the fs it is looking at is not ont he box Aug 31 05:31:08 like an nfs mount Aug 31 05:31:12 should be transparent Aug 31 05:31:45 that's what i thought...but when opening a file on a fuse mounted dir, OOo would crash....gnucalc, or abiword would not Aug 31 05:32:19 i posted a "me too" on a bugtracker about a year ago when it mattered Aug 31 05:33:04 might be more of a race condition or an fs condition that doesnt normally happen Aug 31 05:33:07 but is still valid Aug 31 05:33:12 either that or just a very slow fs Aug 31 05:33:14 dunno Aug 31 05:33:41 me either...anyway...i don't work in the situation where it was important to me anymore anyway ;) Aug 31 05:36:22 what's different about tangogps-fso? that it uses the dbus? Aug 31 05:36:40 to start gps daemon(s)? Aug 31 05:42:40 what is the key mod for the aux button to use in fluxbox as right mouse pointer ? Aug 31 05:50:37 undrwater: I think you left yesterday before I could tell you the Om2008.8 resolvconf fix for wifi dhcp also worked with WPA and that I added it to the wiki. Aug 31 05:51:09 TeLLuS: fantastic! thanks :) Aug 31 05:51:36 i'll get a chance to test with wep relatively soon Aug 31 05:51:45 oh guys anybody of you knows that ? Aug 31 05:51:54 i want the keycode of the aux button Aug 31 05:52:14 does anybody know how to get it for using it as a right mouse button ... Aug 31 05:52:52 blubs: someone else was asking yesterday...if we can find it, a lot of folks will be happy ;) Aug 31 05:53:27 * undrwater going unstable... Aug 31 05:53:47 ah ok didnt know its that difficult ... hmm :( does anybody of you have another idear how to get the menu in fluxbox ... with another trick ? Aug 31 05:54:51 i've heard that tap|hold is supposed to bring up right click Aug 31 05:54:59 or was wanted anyway Aug 31 05:55:10 have you searched for tap|hold? Aug 31 05:56:53 xev Aug 31 05:58:49 SpeedEvil: I already tries xev it didnt show anything Aug 31 05:59:11 undrwater: yes it should be included as i have read but it doesnt work at least not in fluxbox ... :( Aug 31 06:01:15 How do I make my own qtopia-phone-x11-phonevendor-ficgta01vendor package? Makefile do not seem to work.. Aug 31 06:02:38 TeLLuS is excited about gsm sound patch ;) Aug 31 06:03:52 undrwater: Well the downgraded packet it is working, but I don't like the downgrade part... Aug 31 06:04:29 ahh Aug 31 06:06:17 what is gtkrc looking for when it says: include "openmoko-dialer" Aug 31 06:06:33 is there an openmoko-dialer include file? Aug 31 06:08:37 The makefile with bitbake say that "ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'qtopia-phone-x11-phonevendor-ficgta01vendor' (but '[]' DEPENDS on or otherwise requires it)" even on openmoko-qtopia-x11-image Aug 31 06:49:04 [Bug] #1931: Ringtone disapperared ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1931 ) Aug 31 06:53:11 hi all Aug 31 06:53:26 hello Aug 31 06:53:28 I can't connect a usb pen to the freerunner, why? oO Aug 31 06:53:49 have you enabled host? Aug 31 06:54:11 ehm... no... How can I do that? Aug 31 06:54:35 i think it's in the wiki...if not, try the lists...not something i've done..but definately read about it Aug 31 06:55:06 search "enable usb host" Aug 31 06:57:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_USB_host Aug 31 06:58:00 thx Aug 31 06:58:04 i'm reading Aug 31 06:58:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_host Aug 31 07:01:16 :O Aug 31 07:01:21 it is fantastic Aug 31 07:01:22 :O Aug 31 07:01:24 wooow Aug 31 07:29:42 heh Aug 31 07:29:48 craziness Aug 31 07:38:01 sylar91: what'd you do? Aug 31 07:38:08 why? Aug 31 07:38:13 what do you mean? Aug 31 07:38:23 the fantastic thing ;) Aug 31 07:38:25 (sorry for my bad english :S ) Aug 31 07:38:36 I'm configuring my huawei e270 modem Aug 31 07:38:41 for using it with fr Aug 31 07:38:57 what is that? Aug 31 07:39:08 3g modem Aug 31 07:39:08 a super-umts modem Aug 31 07:39:11 yes Aug 31 07:39:33 but I'm not able to install cc with opkg.... Aug 31 07:39:48 I typed opkg install gcc but there isn't the cmd "cc" yet. Aug 31 07:39:50 ... Aug 31 07:39:57 g++? Aug 31 07:40:02 ? Aug 31 07:40:19 try g++ Aug 31 07:40:50 ok thx... mmmm but I'm seeing with dmesg that the kernel recognised my modem Aug 31 07:40:56 so I have only to config ppp Aug 31 07:40:57 :D Aug 31 07:41:24 I'm back in 5 minutes Aug 31 07:47:56 hi Aug 31 07:48:19 I configured successfully the modem Aug 31 07:48:41 with "pon e220" the modem "connect led" start and the modem connected successfully Aug 31 07:48:47 but I can't ping anything... Aug 31 07:51:35 ok I solved (maybe) Aug 31 07:51:49 I need 2 usb ports so I need a duplicator.... Aug 31 07:56:37 did the 2008 updates come through? Aug 31 07:58:16 what? Aug 31 07:58:23 are you talking with me? oO Aug 31 08:00:19 anyone ;) Aug 31 08:00:31 who might have updated upgraded 08 Aug 31 08:01:01 I just got my FR yesterday and flashed it with the updated 2008.8 Aug 31 08:01:29 what's the date on your image? Aug 31 08:01:43 I'd suggest waiting a bit since it seems to break suspend. Now I need to code and press the touchscreen regulary for it not to suspend Aug 31 08:02:11 ahhh...i was going to ask if suspend worked better... ;) Aug 31 08:02:40 well it suspends a lot and comes back up, that's not the problem ;) Aug 31 08:02:51 I can confirm Aug 31 08:03:14 But for my the boot succeded only one every 4 times... Aug 31 08:03:43 I've got no boot problems as far as I am aware Aug 31 08:04:02 digger3: how about phone? Aug 31 08:05:22 undrwater: I'm using 2008-08-30 btw Aug 31 08:05:46 digger3: ahh..ok Aug 31 08:05:59 undrwater: sms messages seemed to be delivered just fine, echo-related problems have also not occured Aug 31 08:06:15 though I haven't done anything like extensive testing Aug 31 08:06:42 i never had echo problems...nor the buzzing Aug 31 08:07:07 hope the fix doesn't break me ;) Aug 31 08:24:27 mokotest Aug 31 08:24:57 looks good Aug 31 08:30:27 does anyone know if raster's keyboard is just the keys and the graphics and so on or if it also tries to find out what key is likely to be pressed next? Aug 31 08:30:58 no prediction of that kind Aug 31 08:31:14 baze: Why not just ask him? :) Aug 31 08:31:15 there is not yet a keyboard that does this Aug 31 08:31:52 the 2008.8 keyboard only predicts a word of n-letters when you press n times om the keyboard Aug 31 08:31:53 but it shouldn't be too hard, considering that dasher already does some kind of thing, right? Aug 31 08:32:24 get the locale and set that for the prediction language for the keyboard Aug 31 08:32:55 and then make the size for the key to be pressed bigger while keeping the graphics at the same size of course Aug 31 08:33:51 but the propability of which key might get pressed next could be provided by some kind of libdasher (if it provides sth like that of course...) Aug 31 08:34:14 i think the iphone keyboard does sth like that but only for english, iirc Aug 31 08:34:40 with the dasher approach this could be done for any language, as the prediction already exists there Aug 31 08:35:16 good idea baz Aug 31 08:35:24 *baze Aug 31 08:37:40 it should work fine for emails, instant messaging, sms and that stuff, but it could be a problem in the terminal where you don't really write words from a language Aug 31 08:38:04 just need to turn prediction off at that moment Aug 31 08:39:52 * niklauz agrees with baze Aug 31 08:44:36 does anybody know what causes the crazy wifi signal-quality indicator? Aug 31 08:44:41 is it the drivers or the firmware? Aug 31 08:50:42 hi everybody Aug 31 08:51:22 hi onebody Aug 31 08:51:36 lol Aug 31 08:52:50 how can I show the cursor in om 2008.8? Aug 31 08:57:22 good morning Aug 31 09:03:47 has anyone tried the FSO? Aug 31 09:04:23 i need some opinions on zhone Aug 31 09:06:21 is fso3 out? Aug 31 09:06:37 nope Aug 31 09:06:51 how to show the cursor? Aug 31 09:06:51 mickeyl sayd next ETA was 05/09 Aug 31 09:08:22 that's the thing with ETAs, when you change them all the time, they worth nothing :) not that im complaining, it's just that i don't trust 05/09 :) Aug 31 09:09:30 hmm Aug 31 09:10:56 how is triple-booting the freerunner possible? i got 2007.2 in flash, qtopia on sd and want to install debian... if i got that right then debian also would place uImage.bin in /boot which of course would overwrite qtopias... is there some possibility to add another menu like e.g. with grub? Aug 31 09:14:11 phrozen77__: get another SD? ;) Aug 31 09:16:10 NO Aug 31 09:16:11 lol Aug 31 09:16:18 i wont dump that 8gb card Aug 31 09:17:38 phrozen77__: no need to dump it, just send it to me Aug 31 09:17:38 swc|666, btw - sorry for the "f...you" yesterday - i just was pretty mad at the freerunner :( Aug 31 09:20:07 hy Aug 31 09:24:17 Zorkman: it does do correction - ie need n presses, but frankly - its easiest and probably best to do that - not predict considering the predictinpsace if you ALSO try and account for mis-typings - it becomes an enormous searchspace. limiting it to n stokes means that your searchspace is limited to words with n chars Aug 31 09:28:28 raster: you are the one responsible for e and illume stuff in 2008.8? Aug 31 09:29:23 * Mononoke wonders how to get neod's source out of svn Aug 31 09:30:38 ah Aug 31 09:30:44 hi raster Aug 31 09:31:01 malik1972: yes... well responsible in that i worked on it/did it. Aug 31 09:31:05 admiral0: moo Aug 31 09:31:25 lol Aug 31 09:31:39 raster: i like the concept of illume, thanks for that! Aug 31 09:31:51 a lot of illume is very much not accessible Aug 31 09:31:53 as with e Aug 31 09:31:56 i intend to fix that Aug 31 09:31:59 yes illume rocks Aug 31 09:32:05 at least in the FSO Aug 31 09:32:08 right now... i just need myself a wifi/network gui thingy that works Aug 31 09:32:10 my neo doesn start with my l-ion battery :/ Aug 31 09:32:22 networkmanager has annoyed me enough with tis eternal api changing Aug 31 09:32:27 and now connman just did the same Aug 31 09:32:36 so i'm going to pick up home-grown e stuff in exalt Aug 31 09:32:49 enough of supportign someone elses network manager thingy Aug 31 09:32:53 too much pain Aug 31 09:33:33 raster: what do you think about the images from shr.bearstech.com? Aug 31 09:33:51 i have one... and i have a cool qwerty keyboard Aug 31 09:33:52 raster: thats right, my wifi network works only if i turn on essid sending Aug 31 09:34:12 admiral0: i havent looked/tried. so "no opinion" :) Aug 31 09:34:44 anyway - i spent a while building a connman based wifi/ethernet config gadget/module Aug 31 09:34:48 and now i find connman changed api Aug 31 09:34:52 so i have to throw 50% of it away Aug 31 09:34:53 or more Aug 31 09:35:00 and start over... not.. happy.. jan Aug 31 09:35:08 hahaha Aug 31 09:35:12 raster: is there a concept for the following: if one installs a lot of applications the home screen will be full, so that one has to scroll Aug 31 09:35:20 that's very annoying Aug 31 09:35:40 malik1972: nothing. i always assumed u wouldnt really have that much space to install THAT many Aug 31 09:35:41 sure Aug 31 09:35:43 scroll a bt Aug 31 09:35:44 bit Aug 31 09:36:11 i originalyl thought of having collapsable sections Aug 31 09:36:17 raster: yes! Aug 31 09:36:19 much like a tyreeview expand/collaps thing Aug 31 09:36:24 but i just didnt get to it Aug 31 09:36:29 and decided its "good enough for now" Aug 31 09:36:40 raster: some kind of categories Aug 31 09:36:41 raster: do you know a workaround when illume-config-illume does not provide your sweet keyboard on 2008.8-upgrade? Aug 31 09:36:49 as such.. i think the launcher is just too ... well.. inhuman Aug 31 09:36:51 its machine Aug 31 09:36:55 raster: for pim, games and so on Aug 31 09:37:00 i have much more evil plans for your "desktop" Aug 31 09:37:03 and how u run stuff Aug 31 09:37:07 no launcher Aug 31 09:37:09 objects! Aug 31 09:37:14 why do i run dialler then dial someone Aug 31 09:37:19 or run addressbook then seletc then call Aug 31 09:37:31 why not just have "jennifer" as a photo in the bottom-right Aug 31 09:37:35 and so when i call my girlfriend Aug 31 09:37:42 its the biggest icon on the screen bottom -rgith Aug 31 09:37:44 Raster: someone here no IRC also suggested that it would be nice to add predictive mode to your full qwerty keyboard in a dasher-like way (most like keys become bigger, would this be feasable?) Aug 31 09:37:44 where i put it Aug 31 09:37:50 because its probably the most common thing i do Aug 31 09:37:58 so i am looking at more of an object-desktop Aug 31 09:38:02 where its filled with gadgets Aug 31 09:38:08 clocks, calendars Aug 31 09:38:13 app icons Aug 31 09:38:15 people icons Aug 31 09:38:23 etc. etc. Aug 31 09:38:44 Zorkman: i think i explained above a bit Aug 31 09:38:50 i'll check Aug 31 09:38:51 prediction makes it really nasty Aug 31 09:39:02 raster: it thought of paging and anchoring Aug 31 09:39:03 basically your searchspace blows out incredibly Aug 31 09:39:11 it already is huge Aug 31 09:40:16 raster: switching between different desktops via gestures, activating them by some kind of anchoring Aug 31 09:40:17 ok, thanks Aug 31 09:40:31 Zorkman: basically every time u press a key - this results in about 10-20 possible kesy you could have pressed Aug 31 09:40:41 how is triple-booting the freerunner possible? i got 2007.2 in flash, qtopia on sd and want to install debian... if i got that right then debian also would place uImage.bin in /boot which of course would overwrite qtopias... is there some possibility to add another menu like e.g. with grub? Aug 31 09:40:41 now multiply that by every letter Aug 31 09:40:43 I hope with your renewed freedom it will all get back on track :) Aug 31 09:40:45 think of all the permutations Aug 31 09:40:49 raster: than you have enough room for more than one girlfreind;-) Aug 31 09:41:01 the dict lookup managess to throw most out as it progressively narrows down to only what exists Aug 31 09:41:05 BUT Aug 31 09:41:30 because it is also limited to words only of lentgh N (where N is the # of letters) it makes it doable Aug 31 09:41:33 if u try prodecit Aug 31 09:41:44 yeah, I understand Aug 31 09:41:46 searchspace is N or N+1, N+2, N+3 etc. Aug 31 09:41:51 and that will just kill the lookup code Aug 31 09:41:52 :( Aug 31 09:41:58 so as such.. its just saner this way Aug 31 09:42:02 phrozen77__: there is a choice within the debian installer, i used to install the debian kernel (=fso ms2) to sd card Aug 31 09:42:11 np, it seems to work very good for english words (imo) Aug 31 09:42:29 i'm just getting frustrated that I can't get your full-querty on 2008.8-upgrade :) Aug 31 09:42:31 so i say no - not because i hate you.. but because its really going to put a spanner in the works Aug 31 09:42:48 in the end - i probably want to try FSO Aug 31 09:42:51 i'll be doing work in that corner Aug 31 09:43:02 that was going to be my next question :) Aug 31 09:43:04 Zorkman, try fso... it has 3 keyboards Aug 31 09:43:15 admiral0: i know and I will when ms3 is released Aug 31 09:43:27 why? Aug 31 09:43:32 I think FSO is indeed the future, but I would really like raster to join in on that one too :) Aug 31 09:43:35 ahoi Aug 31 09:43:48 sorry Aug 31 09:43:52 YOU want to try fso Aug 31 09:43:56 i already have fso building Aug 31 09:43:59 i have theior git tree Aug 31 09:44:14 that makes me happy :) Aug 31 09:44:17 but right now - need to get some network managery thing going Aug 31 09:44:25 as i want that for FSO anyway for configging wifi Aug 31 09:44:42 yes Aug 31 09:44:44 and then some theme work to do an e style theme for fso Aug 31 09:44:48 raster: what about the existing ones? Aug 31 09:44:51 I saw you were alse the first (and only) one to report that crazy wifi quality information Aug 31 09:45:01 so i can re-cycle e's default theme stuff rather than do a completely different one Aug 31 09:45:06 raster: YES! because right now i think FSO is ugly :) Aug 31 09:45:12 malik1972: existing.. themes? or network manager things? Aug 31 09:45:29 raster: network managers Aug 31 09:45:46 malik1972: tried networkmanager - wont stabilise on api. and wont release their new api. Aug 31 09:45:58 FSO is ugly ????? http://52grad.de/.stuff/freerunner/ Aug 31 09:46:02 !!!!! Aug 31 09:46:07 malik1972: connman just bitchslapped me with a brand new and opaque api and it broke all my connman work Aug 31 09:46:08 hehe admiral0: i know :) Aug 31 09:46:11 so i'm dumping that Aug 31 09:46:14 If the red led is blinking, it means that you have a kernel panic. But if the red led is blinking before you go into u-boot, does it mean your battery is empty? Aug 31 09:46:16 i'm going to use exalt Aug 31 09:46:17 i also installed that theme, I really like that theme Aug 31 09:46:21 1. it works Aug 31 09:46:26 (on my laptop) Aug 31 09:46:26 but standard I found zhone ugly Aug 31 09:46:30 2. its not a moving target Aug 31 09:46:38 3. it starts with e Aug 31 09:46:46 4. i didn't write it - but it does come from e-land :) Aug 31 09:46:49 Zorkman: i am creating a new phone suite for FSO Aug 31 09:47:00 yay Aug 31 09:47:26 pyefl + mysql + dbus Aug 31 09:47:29 so i need to get the desktop gadget/module working with it Aug 31 09:47:31 raster: did you ever connected to a wifi ap which does not send its essid? Aug 31 09:47:32 sorry Aug 31 09:47:33 it has its own - but it is very simplistic Aug 31 09:47:34 sqlite Aug 31 09:47:36 or did someone else? Aug 31 09:47:47 malik1972: never tried. i dont have a lot of ap's to go thru :) Aug 31 09:48:04 raster: try it, it will not work Aug 31 09:48:34 raster: i dont know why ... my zaurus has no problems with that Aug 31 09:48:44 not surprisied Aug 31 09:48:51 the wifi drivers have problems on the FR Aug 31 09:49:24 raster: they don't have problems: I always have a quality like 250/94 :P Aug 31 09:49:40 the wifi drivers are stark raving mad :) Aug 31 09:50:00 Zorkman: iu have founbd i need a reboot to change ap's Aug 31 09:50:04 for example Aug 31 09:50:16 the drivers dont report disconnects (Disaccociate) properly Aug 31 09:50:17 raster: i was joking, i also have to reboot; they are really buggy Aug 31 09:50:26 lots of other nigglies Aug 31 09:50:52 I also don't think 250/94 is a sane thing to report (but not mch experiance with wifi) Aug 31 09:50:54 i think openmoko guys should concentrate on modules and base system Aug 31 09:50:55 should probably look why we only can connect with wifi once, invalid encryption is counting up even when connecting to an open network.. Aug 31 09:51:14 malik1972, you refer to the installer here: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner ? Aug 31 09:52:35 admiral0: considering the design department have about as much experience with ui design and their userbase as a camel has experience ic-skating... yup :) Aug 31 09:53:05 phrozen77__: yes, have a look into install.sh Aug 31 09:53:19 raster: they do their work... but there are people that can do it better Aug 31 09:53:41 raster: it seems that the qtopia design departement eats the same stuff as the om design dep does; Aug 31 09:53:43 lpotter said that not being able to close the mediaplayer once it was opened was a "design descission" Aug 31 09:54:15 LOOOOL Aug 31 09:54:27 seriously.. he said it in this channel Aug 31 09:54:46 _lol_ Aug 31 09:54:54 hooray! Aug 31 09:55:03 thats great Aug 31 09:55:23 lets let a process hang aboutr that u may not want again for hours days or even weeks Aug 31 09:55:30 or ever again Aug 31 09:56:20 raster: I also heard joerg was getting fed up with all the bs Aug 31 09:56:38 seems like all the guys who actually interacht and listen to the community are not happy in openmoko :( Aug 31 09:56:38 such word filtered through today... Aug 31 09:56:44 i wonder if gta0304 will ever come out... Aug 31 09:56:56 and.. i'm damn well not surprised Aug 31 09:57:06 i tried to help om Aug 31 09:57:22 gta0x will come out Aug 31 09:57:39 i sure hope they are going to get theirself together, because I don't want this project to fail; but if they scare away every good programmer/hw guy... Aug 31 09:58:17 yes. It's a very nice project Aug 31 09:59:50 i treid to tell them "your customer base are THESE guys - they are linux nerds. they pay for a cool linux toy they can easily hack with/on. making them happy is the most important thing... and to do that you have to include them in what om does - they have to have a direct say and input into the default factory image. it may take a cycle or to to get in - but they want to be part of it and be counted. but i know that is not how this plac Aug 31 09:59:50 e works - i thought it did.. but i was wrong. you either need to 1. declare that community are not part of it - they can fork and do their own thing all they like - but they are not able to make any design decisions, OR you need to change how you work and include them.. the 3nd choise is the wise one... otherwise you wil llose the biggest free-marketing you have. and that will be the end of any good will to om and thus pretty much be ver Aug 31 09:59:50 y likely to kill om" Aug 31 09:59:57 i tried it a few times Aug 31 10:00:18 but hey - maybe thigns will change Aug 31 10:00:20 maybe not Aug 31 10:00:27 but i am not going to be the meat in the dandwich anymore Aug 31 10:00:29 sandwich Aug 31 10:00:51 we understand raster Aug 31 10:01:02 raster, who are you Aug 31 10:01:08 they really dont pay me enough to be that meat Aug 31 10:01:09 :) Aug 31 10:01:15 Sargun: the tooth fairy Aug 31 10:01:16 :) Aug 31 10:01:25 raster: we can continue to develop the FSO Aug 31 10:01:35 raster, who do you work for Aug 31 10:01:40 Sargun: raster is the illume/e dude, he WAS an openmoko employee Aug 31 10:01:46 Ah... Aug 31 10:01:50 Why did you quit? Aug 31 10:01:52 hmm, is there anything I should know about installing illume-config on om2008.8-update. The wrench isn't begin shown anywhere Aug 31 10:02:04 raster -- real name? Aug 31 10:02:04 if you read the mailinglist you will find a lot of messages from him Aug 31 10:02:16 Sargun: everyone knows me as raster Aug 31 10:02:21 it may as well be my name Aug 31 10:02:25 no one knows my real name Aug 31 10:02:26 :) Aug 31 10:02:39 hehe Aug 31 10:02:44 I know it raster :p Aug 31 10:02:45 digger3: u'll need to change profiles Aug 31 10:02:53 i mailed to the community list how to do it Aug 31 10:02:55 Carsten Haitzler Aug 31 10:03:26 raster: then I'll have to take another look at the archives, thanks Aug 31 10:03:27 raster, Why did you quit Aug 31 10:03:38 raster: those instructions don't work on OM2008-8upgrade (at least not here), but whatever, it'll get sorted out sooner or latert Aug 31 10:03:39 What did you think of the stuff you did for Dash Aug 31 10:04:20 ping gsmd0710muxd guru Aug 31 10:04:30 hullo raster Aug 31 10:04:35 * Sargun probes raster Aug 31 10:05:22 Guess I scared him away Aug 31 10:05:24 cya guys later Aug 31 10:08:02 Sargun: primarily because om did not live up to what it promised when i joined - we had agreements which om didnt fulfill and decided not to - so irrespective of anything else, there was a major issue akin to contractual agreements being broken and no desire on om's part to fulfill them. add to that a bunch of other stuff like disconnect from om and the linux/oss community, inexperienced management, really crazy and stupid ideas micro-ma Aug 31 10:08:02 naged by non-technical people imposed on the technical people against advice and reality... mayaswell go. i am less stressed with all the mess. Aug 31 10:08:24 stuff like what? Aug 31 10:08:44 agreements like what Aug 31 10:08:47 mooo raster Aug 31 10:08:57 Sargun: not going to go into the details. Aug 31 10:09:01 Fine. Aug 31 10:09:07 Did you work on HXD8? Aug 31 10:09:27 Sargun: those are private between me and om's management Aug 31 10:09:28 I'm purchasing OMs as a GPS tracking platform. Aug 31 10:09:36 the latter thing Aug 31 10:09:39 or the agreements? Aug 31 10:09:44 Not exactly a geek thing. Aug 31 10:09:45 :-) Aug 31 10:10:00 but think of them as thnigs like: "you agreed to pay me $40,000 but you have only paid $20,000 - what's up?" Aug 31 10:10:08 notsaying it is money/pay Aug 31 10:10:17 oh, ok. Aug 31 10:10:20 but its contractual/business stuff Aug 31 10:10:25 Well, compensation Aug 31 10:10:26 not linux/tech/open source Aug 31 10:10:42 so think of it as equivalent Aug 31 10:10:46 hi I need help... somebody could help me please? Aug 31 10:10:52 sylar91, what's wrong Aug 31 10:11:00 what's with the 91 in your nickname? Aug 31 10:11:02 I can't get headphones working Aug 31 10:11:04 are you 16/17? Aug 31 10:11:06 like "you hired me as an engineer, but i'm actually cleaning toilets.. wtf?" Aug 31 10:11:09 that kind of thing Aug 31 10:11:12 yes, I'm 16 Aug 31 10:11:14 raster, That's normal. Aug 31 10:11:20 sylar91, neat. Aug 31 10:11:28 i expect people, when they agree to somethnig - to stick to it Aug 31 10:11:35 you are only worth as much as your word Aug 31 10:11:39 raster, how long have you worked in tech? Aug 31 10:11:48 if you cant keep your word - you really lose value quickly in my books. Aug 31 10:12:03 i never promise anything - unless i know i can and will deliver Aug 31 10:12:09 heh Aug 31 10:12:18 tech? umm.. a decade Aug 31 10:12:27 then you've had decent luck Aug 31 10:12:29 Anyways Aug 31 10:12:46 ehi, dargun, could you help me? (sorry for my bad english) Aug 31 10:13:10 sylar91, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem#using_analog_.284pin_2.5mm.29_headset Aug 31 10:13:19 your english is fine. Aug 31 10:13:45 decent luck? as opposed to? Aug 31 10:13:46 :) Aug 31 10:14:17 sargun, the link you linked me doesn't contain answers to solve my problem Aug 31 10:14:33 raster, if you've done a lot of work its normal for your job to degrade from a highly specialized position to a general "janitor" Aug 31 10:14:44 sylar91, uhm, are you sure? Aug 31 10:14:44 raster: are you keep going to do things for om? Like helping with SHR. Or will you just hang the irc? (Because with your experience with om, I can think you say: f*ck them.) Aug 31 10:14:58 did you download the asound state files, and restore them? Aug 31 10:15:07 sargun, yes.. when I plug in headphones nothing appends Aug 31 10:15:13 dolf1074_: i intend to focus on my own goals. i will use om as a platform as best as is possible Aug 31 10:15:16 did you restore the state files? Aug 31 10:15:26 raster, what are your goals? Aug 31 10:15:30 i'll work on FSO as my own goals are to create an X based phone ui that really rocks Aug 31 10:15:45 ehm... I don't know what I have to do with those files Aug 31 10:15:49 raster, did you work on HXD8v2? Aug 31 10:15:50 nice Aug 31 10:16:02 that i can use, that my friends can use, that my parents can use... that nerds in general can use. that is easy to develop for Aug 31 10:16:05 ie no specail "sdk" Aug 31 10:16:13 raster, that would be nice. Aug 31 10:16:13 just write your regualr run-of-the-mill desktop x11 app Aug 31 10:16:17 Yeah. Aug 31 10:16:23 if u can fit it in the pixels/dpi of the screen - thats your biggest effort Aug 31 10:16:26 somebody knows how to change the cursor in om 2008.8? Aug 31 10:16:40 the rest should be simple and work as well on a desktop as well as on my phone Aug 31 10:16:41 there is a cursor? Aug 31 10:16:45 look forward to when it exists :p Aug 31 10:16:49 no, but I want to see it Aug 31 10:16:55 Sargun: and no - didnt work on hxd8v2 Aug 31 10:16:56 why Aug 31 10:16:57 /dev/pts/xxx stuff that gsmd0710muxd creates. are they full blown virtual comm ports or something else? Aug 31 10:17:04 just freerunner Aug 31 10:17:06 raster, Aw, its pretty neat. Aug 31 10:17:15 sargun: because I want to see it when I plug in the mouse Aug 31 10:17:18 I wish they would sell the HXD8v2 as an OM product Aug 31 10:17:58 what's all this HXD ** ? Aug 31 10:18:03 admiral0, nothing. Aug 31 10:18:19 i know it's a phone... but then? Aug 31 10:18:22 sylar91, Sorry, don't know :-( Aug 31 10:18:30 np Aug 31 10:18:32 try messing with Xmodmap Aug 31 10:18:49 sylar91, did restoring the alsactl file help? Aug 31 10:18:53 u wont get a pointer Aug 31 10:18:59 x is literally started with --hide-cursor Aug 31 10:18:59 I'm not able... Aug 31 10:19:06 ie x turns off its mouse cursor Aug 31 10:19:12 sylar91, not able to restore it? Aug 31 10:19:14 and can I turn it on? Aug 31 10:19:17 u'll have to first remvoe that fromt eh x startup script Aug 31 10:19:27 then its up to your wm/desktop/apps etc. Aug 31 10:19:27 how? Aug 31 10:19:30 uhm Aug 31 10:19:43 sargun: I don't know how to do that Aug 31 10:19:46 how do i remove that xscreensaver? Aug 31 10:19:59 sylar91, read the wiki page Aug 31 10:20:00 or whatever makes my freerunner go sleep after a few secs? Aug 31 10:20:03 raster: how can find the "remove mouse" line ? Aug 31 10:20:16 settings don't work anymore since the rootfs from 31.8. Aug 31 10:20:17 tomboy: maybe the suspend? Aug 31 10:20:24 sylar91: yeah Aug 31 10:20:25 tomboy64, what distro you running Aug 31 10:20:30 2008.8 Aug 31 10:20:32 start rummaging thru /etc :) Aug 31 10:20:33 angstrom Aug 31 10:20:39 u'll eventually find the script that starts x Aug 31 10:20:41 :) Aug 31 10:20:45 go under settings -> Aug 31 10:20:53 Sargun: doesn't work anymore Aug 31 10:20:58 switched it off there already Aug 31 10:21:01 tomboy, go in settings and disable the automatic suspend if you are uscing 2008.8 Aug 31 10:21:07 tomboy64, reflash Aug 31 10:21:13 * tomboy64 sighs Aug 31 10:21:15 *again*? Aug 31 10:22:32 tomboy64: try flashing to the original 2008.8, I'm having the suspend problems with a fresh 2008.8-update install Aug 31 10:22:43 yeah Aug 31 10:22:47 that's it with me, too Aug 31 10:22:59 now with the new theme zhone sucks... too dark.. Aug 31 10:23:10 ah well Aug 31 10:23:14 is fso worth a try? Aug 31 10:23:20 ehi I found the --hide-cursor option in /etc/X11/Xserver Aug 31 10:23:28 actually, 2008.8 didn't work with making calls on mine Aug 31 10:23:34 just 2008.8-update did Aug 31 10:23:40 I really need to cut my hair Aug 31 10:23:57 raster, what do you think about using the FR as a surveillance device? Aug 31 10:24:12 Sargun: what kind of surveillance? Aug 31 10:24:26 right now using FR aty all is a little bit of a challenge Aug 31 10:24:27 tomboy64: with original 2008 you need zecke updates Aug 31 10:24:35 raster, Install debian on it Aug 31 10:24:41 i have it not wake upfrom suspend often enough Aug 31 10:24:43 use the mic for recording what people are saying Aug 31 10:24:46 admiral0: could you point me to a url? Aug 31 10:24:56 GPS for location Aug 31 10:24:58 Sargun: not as very good mic Aug 31 10:25:00 tomboy64:one moment... Aug 31 10:25:00 argh you cant use an freerunner as your normal handy right now if it sometimes doesnt wake up or better it doesnt ring when someone is calling Aug 31 10:25:02 u wont get much sound Aug 31 10:25:03 GSM to transmit it. Aug 31 10:25:10 True. Aug 31 10:25:12 raster, do you know about the roadmap within OM of the HXD8v2? Is it going to be left as an internal project? Aug 31 10:25:12 wooooooooooooooooow Aug 31 10:25:15 Wow? Aug 31 10:25:16 yuppie Aug 31 10:25:19 huh Aug 31 10:25:21 I have the cursor Aug 31 10:25:22 XD Aug 31 10:25:24 cool. Aug 31 10:25:30 Sargun: internal. its paid for by a client. its theirs Aug 31 10:25:33 blame raster Aug 31 10:25:34 it is very nice Aug 31 10:26:54 tomboy64:they removed it... add the official repository and update *only* qtopia Aug 31 10:26:58 too bad. Aug 31 10:27:35 mhmm Aug 31 10:27:44 how do i manage repos anyway? Aug 31 10:28:12 if i put the stuff into conf-files in /etc/opkg it is not listed under "repos" in the install-thingy (assassin?) Aug 31 10:29:00 hm Aug 31 10:29:07 wonder why usb networking stopped to work Aug 31 10:29:13 tomboy64:have no idea Aug 31 10:29:19 -.- Aug 31 10:30:29 raster, are you going to use the FR as the sole development platform? Aug 31 10:30:38 * admiral0 is going to lunch Aug 31 10:30:40 bye Aug 31 10:31:08 Sargun: of course not Aug 31 10:31:30 raster, what other hardware platforms Aug 31 10:31:59 zaurus sl-c860, nokia n800 Aug 31 10:32:02 likely Aug 31 10:32:10 i probably wont dig out my old ipaq Aug 31 10:32:18 only 16mb flash Aug 31 10:32:29 i might grab myself an openpandora unit when it comes out Aug 31 10:32:43 openpandora looks really cool Aug 31 10:33:05 Om2008.8 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1928 Settings don't change the suspend time Aug 31 10:33:08 but i've just ordered my freerunner from koolu :) Aug 31 10:33:39 raster, N810 is neat, but its a lot slower. Aug 31 10:33:53 is the Zaurus being sold in America? Aug 31 10:34:14 Sargun: slower than? Aug 31 10:34:27 other devices Aug 31 10:34:29 Sargun: and no zaurus is not sold anymore Aug 31 10:34:33 i got mine in japan Aug 31 10:34:36 hehe Aug 31 10:34:37 they apparently screwed up the memory arch Aug 31 10:34:40 u havent tried the FR yet Aug 31 10:34:44 I have an FR Aug 31 10:34:51 n800 looks blindingly fast in comparsion Aug 31 10:35:06 :) Aug 31 10:35:13 the N800 was created by nokia Aug 31 10:35:22 i know Aug 31 10:35:24 you expect fucking awesome from nokia Aug 31 10:35:24 i have one Aug 31 10:35:31 I have an n810 :-) Aug 31 10:35:38 FR was made by FIC Aug 31 10:35:41 raster: looks or IS much faster? :) Aug 31 10:35:48 FIC is like, trashy Taiwan. Aug 31 10:35:51 Zorkman: *IS* faster Aug 31 10:35:54 trust me Aug 31 10:36:02 n800 is very much faster Aug 31 10:36:06 Zorkman, N810 is faster than FR Aug 31 10:36:15 but it has its own handful of issues Aug 31 10:36:19 frlash and sd card IO, graphics bandwidth, cpu isn't faster clockrate-wise Aug 31 10:36:23 there isn't enough memory bandwidth. Aug 31 10:36:30 but given all the waitstates from the glamo the n800 beats it even at 300 Aug 31 10:36:35 also u get a dsp to play with topo Aug 31 10:36:35 the graphics is AWESOME on the n8XX Aug 31 10:36:44 but the graphics isn't open. :-( Aug 31 10:36:52 n800 is much more powerful - from a high level u'd think not Aug 31 10:36:57 but reality is otherwise Aug 31 10:37:00 Yeah Aug 31 10:37:03 Sargun: like the glamo is open you mean? :) Aug 31 10:37:06 too bad no GSM/CDMA Aug 31 10:37:11 Sargun: not much mem bandwidth on fr Aug 31 10:37:13 100mhz only Aug 31 10:37:14 Zorkman, Glamo is fucked up. Aug 31 10:37:15 SDR Aug 31 10:37:24 raster, I think its similar on the N800 Aug 31 10:37:27 and u lose a heap thansk to waitstates Aug 31 10:37:32 Well, it performs like an 88 Mhz bus Aug 31 10:37:39 Sargun: actually a bit worse :) Aug 31 10:37:50 hehe Aug 31 10:37:50 i've done tests on both Aug 31 10:38:07 apples vs apples ones Aug 31 10:38:11 the n800 comes out on top Aug 31 10:39:00 yeah Aug 31 10:39:48 OpenPandora looks neat Aug 31 10:39:52 are you in the states? Aug 31 10:40:00 nup Aug 31 10:40:01 .au Aug 31 10:40:06 ok fodd time Aug 31 10:40:12 fewd Aug 31 10:40:12 cya Aug 31 10:42:40 so basically the only thing that's really wrong with gta02 now is that it doesn't resume 30% of the time Aug 31 10:42:52 guess again... Aug 31 10:43:00 gms reregistering Aug 31 10:43:03 wifi Aug 31 10:43:05 anybody knows in what period we may expect the first release of SHR? months, weeks, days? Aug 31 10:43:27 wifi is also broken? Aug 31 10:43:39 works for me Aug 31 10:44:15 wifi works somethings here Aug 31 10:44:23 try disconnecting and connecting to another AP.. Aug 31 10:44:42 Zorkman: i have only one ap in home ;] Aug 31 10:45:00 ok, then go to your yard an lose wifi signal and try reconnecting :) Aug 31 10:45:01 Zorkman: Always work first time. http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1625 Aug 31 10:45:20 i know TeLLuS Aug 31 10:45:52 and the gsm reregistering thing? Aug 31 10:45:54 Zorkman: it works but you have to manualy reconnect Aug 31 10:46:00 igor321: that is on 2007.2 Aug 31 10:46:00 is that the same issue only with gsm? Aug 31 10:46:05 i've done that and it works Aug 31 10:46:06 ah okay than Aug 31 10:46:16 so, basically these 2 issues Aug 31 10:46:20 igor321: and don't forget the gsm echo and the gsm buzz Aug 31 10:46:24 dolf1074_, 3-6 monhs Aug 31 10:46:39 Zorkman: i thought that was taken care of with some at commands Aug 31 10:46:51 haven't tested it yet, but someone reported it didn't work for him Aug 31 10:46:52 okay, that's a long time :( Aug 31 10:46:59 (seems to work for most people thoug) Aug 31 10:47:05 but gsm buzz is hw problem, no fix for that one Aug 31 10:47:08 only for echo surpression Aug 31 10:47:26 Zorkman: you have the buzz? Aug 31 10:47:27 Zorkman: Not much echo for the calling with this AT-command patch.. http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1267 Aug 31 10:47:47 igor321: yes, I don't hear it but some peoplehear it when they call me on my FR and they refuse to call on my FR now :) Aug 31 10:48:10 hehe Aug 31 10:48:30 Zorkman: Have you applied the patch or packet? Aug 31 10:48:38 oh man this phone is a handful, can't wait to get mine :) Aug 31 10:48:59 TeLLuS: not yet, but I have good confidence in it :) with tweaking alsomixer I could also get the echoto a "usable" level Aug 31 10:49:39 Zorkman: Well is no alsamixer tweak so you probably have note even read the page.. Aug 31 10:49:55 TeLLuS: yes I have, i know it's an AT command Aug 31 10:50:14 I read everymail on the mailinglist normally and I know of this sollution since yesterday :) Aug 31 10:50:39 I just wanted to point out that i have confidence it will work, because even with ONLY alsamixer tweaking I got it to a "usable" level Aug 31 10:50:58 ehi I can see the cursor and the screen and it moves with my finder but with an external mouse it doesn't move!why? Aug 31 10:51:20 sylar91: is your FR in usb host mode? Aug 31 10:51:26 yes Aug 31 10:51:55 I think you need to add a pointer device somewhere, maybe in xorg? dunno for sure Aug 31 10:52:34 because some hours ago, when i didn't see the cursor, the external mouse worked well and i can make also right click Aug 31 10:53:21 sylar91: Where did you activate the mouse? Aug 31 10:53:37 where? what do you mean? Aug 31 10:54:02 sylar91: mousepointer even.. Aug 31 10:54:04 [Bug] #1932: Suspend mode OFF not working ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1932 ) Aug 31 10:54:18 i'm using 2008.8 Aug 31 10:59:01 Look like others is not allowed to close that trac-ticket as duplicate.. I'l just type that in then. Aug 31 11:01:46 ehi I founded a but now... Aug 31 11:01:58 a new bug Aug 31 11:02:37 what I have to do? Aug 31 11:03:52 the error is "power_supply bat: driver failed to report 'time_to_empty_now' property Aug 31 11:03:54 " Aug 31 11:04:04 hm Aug 31 11:04:13 where was the menu option on qtopia to rescan for files? Aug 31 11:04:20 sylar91, is the battery inserted? Aug 31 11:04:36 yes.... I have no solar panel... Aug 31 11:06:13 it doesn't give 5 v alimentation Aug 31 11:07:32 /rejoin Aug 31 11:13:43 i've just made a opkg upgrade, what's the use of angstrom-version? Aug 31 11:15:07 * TeLLuS found and removed the -hide-cursor in /etc/X11/Xserver Aug 31 11:19:09 could openmoko be considered ready for enduser use yet? Aug 31 11:19:26 samphippen: no Aug 31 11:19:36 tuXXX, how long till it is? Aug 31 11:19:39 samphippen: only if your enduser is a deep geek :) Aug 31 11:19:54 alx___, i want a smartphone, but i dont want to have to ssh into it to get it working! Aug 31 11:20:06 samphippen, you dont have to ssh Aug 31 11:20:12 there is telnet, for example :p Aug 31 11:20:24 righty ho Aug 31 11:20:29 is there some mailing list i can subscribe to? Aug 31 11:20:57 samphippen: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ Aug 31 11:21:15 TeLLuS, that doesn't exist Aug 31 11:21:31 use the qtopia image, that works fine as a phone, if you want a smartphone you may need to work at it Aug 31 11:21:54 kk Aug 31 11:22:23 put it this way. If i were to buy one today. would I be able to set it up with a small amount of linux knowledge within 20 minutes and make a call? Aug 31 11:22:28 (assuming it was charged) Aug 31 11:25:18 yes Aug 31 11:25:38 you need to flash that image, which is typing in a few commands, after that it is just a phone with a touch screen Aug 31 11:25:45 there is a basic distro installed, and with that you can make a phone call Aug 31 11:25:48 without any problems Aug 31 11:26:46 if you just want a phone there are other options available though that will be cheaper Aug 31 11:28:30 and with less headaches. (but also with less fun of gps+wifi+linux) Aug 31 11:29:31 i want a phone that can do wardriving Aug 31 11:30:41 yeah, you can that with the FreeRunner. Aug 31 11:30:52 hello everyone! Aug 31 11:31:00 hey Aug 31 11:31:01 but not in 2 finger clicks Aug 31 11:31:15 i just got realy stuck with emulating with qemu Aug 31 11:31:35 what's the problem? Aug 31 11:31:39 yeah it's a different cpu so it is really slow to emulate Aug 31 11:31:47 i chose the automatic way...(make qemu) Aug 31 11:32:03 hi i have a problem with two packages from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/: libxv_1.0.3-r1_armv4t.ipk, libmp3lame_3.96.1-r4_armv4t.ipk. they have no files. it is possible? Aug 31 11:32:15 arm is the oposite endian so just about every instruction needs to be processed Aug 31 11:32:41 and it botts up fine but whe the boot finised i just see a no netwik-message and 4 buttons wit no functionality Aug 31 11:32:52 yeah, the images are wrong Aug 31 11:33:21 you will have to download your own images (see wiki) for the neo 1973 and them manually replace the other images Aug 31 11:33:22 where can i search for the right ones? Aug 31 11:33:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Download and choose the distribution you want Aug 31 11:33:59 but it must be an image for gta01 Aug 31 11:34:16 goldie83: it seems that there are lots of packages in the daily-feed directory with this problem. It is probably best to avoid that feed altogether. Aug 31 11:34:19 or neo 1973 (but that's the same) Aug 31 11:35:37 and then replace the ones in your_map/images/openmoko Aug 31 11:38:32 hi again Aug 31 11:45:46 I have created a .desktop link to Sonata (mpd client) from the XFCE4 desktop menu. It got created in ~/Desktop, but xfce doesn't show it on the latter. the "Home" and "File System" icons are there however. What might I have to do? Aug 31 11:46:14 are the Categories screwed up here, too? Aug 31 11:48:12 is it normal to still get gps TTTF up to 350s. after hardware fix? Aug 31 11:54:51 Is it just me, or is OM2008.8 even slower to boot than OM2007.2? Aug 31 11:56:22 alx___: might help if you confirmed you're standing on a mountain with clean line-of-sight Aug 31 11:56:35 clear line-of-sight Aug 31 11:56:43 is there a way to run suspend off in the latest ASU release? Aug 31 11:56:57 Doesn't OM have AGPS? Aug 31 11:57:09 Because my suspend is OFF but it still goes into suspend ater x seconds Aug 31 11:57:17 city center, 2nd floor in a street of 5 floor building, trees in the street, might not help :/ Aug 31 11:57:23 lol Aug 31 11:57:26 Might not Aug 31 11:58:33 will a gps antenna make any dfference in this kind of env? Aug 31 12:00:01 I guess it will make a huge difference from what I've heard Aug 31 12:00:37 Lo-lan-do, it is Aug 31 12:01:21 should be possible to make hand-made antenna, like wifi pringles ones? :D Aug 31 12:02:40 i'm trying to write AT commands to the pseudo terminal /dev/pts/3 created by gsm0710muxd but all i'm getting is "gsm0710muxd.c:569:pseudo_device_read(): Write to a channel which wasn't acked to be open." Aug 31 12:02:57 well, just checked the prices on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_antennas_for_neo1973 10$ antenna Aug 31 12:04:56 alx___: maybe some coax cable (unisolated) works if you get an mmcx-plug for it. But I don't know about the required length, depends on the wavelength of the gps signal... Aug 31 12:06:11 The agps has been working really well for me outside. Aug 31 12:06:11 we also need ppl to write an app to assist the agps Aug 31 12:06:21 w/o antenae Aug 31 12:08:03 i can get a fix in 30 seconds or 5 minutes depending on if there are lots of power lines Aug 31 12:09:32 just bought the arkon antenna from amazon, 10€ only thanks to $ price :) Aug 31 12:11:53 ave Aug 31 12:12:27 can I adjust suspend manually? Aug 31 12:20:20 is there a way to start wifi automaticly at startup? Aug 31 12:21:52 does someone use the latest ASU build? Aug 31 12:22:56 alx___: Have not tested but I think it should be possible to use /etc/network/interfaces and add auto eth0 and with some wifi settings.. Aug 31 12:23:21 thanks TeLLuS, i'm trying it now :) Aug 31 12:24:39 Blalien, I don't know ASU, but I had problem with suspend on FSO. I killed a process 'ompowerd' which forced suspend ... Have a look if that process exists.. and try to kill it Aug 31 12:25:18 another strange gps stuff: can't get a new TTFF after getting the first one and closing/reopening agps tester Aug 31 12:26:56 are the guys from openmoko in holidays? mailing list seems pretty calm compared to july Aug 31 12:28:21 w_erase: I found this ¨ksuspend_usbd. But when I kill it, the phone restarts the process Aug 31 12:29:13 Blalien: Also have same problem but mine was in suspend off mode when upgraded. So I can live with it by pressing power to suspend.. Aug 31 12:29:28 hi, is there a possibility to dim the display when the freerunner is "locked" in OM2008 ? Aug 31 12:30:47 TeLLuS: Does your phone go to suspend mode when you are connected to usb? Aug 31 12:31:20 And do the processes continue when in suspend? Or is it just a screensaver? Aug 31 12:31:59 TeLLuS: thanks, wifi works when adding 'auto eth0' above eth0 config in /etc/network/interfaces Aug 31 12:32:00 Is it normal for the freerunner to lock-up when using the sd-card (trying to install debian) Aug 31 12:32:26 RedFlash: I'm also searching after a dim, but can't find it Aug 31 12:33:26 you need to stop the x and qpe sessions Aug 31 12:34:00 dolf1074_: Brightness in settings? Aug 31 12:35:33 yes but that's no full dim Aug 31 12:35:37 yes, but since the display needs a lot of power it would be nice, if (after some time) the display turns of when the freerunner is locked Aug 31 12:36:09 Where can I find flashable images for OM2007.2? Aug 31 12:36:16 there is suspend and then the display is turned of, but I have rather many problems with suspend Aug 31 12:37:37 suspend works fine for me, but when i am using tangogps (creating maps for OSM) its no so good, when the freerunner goes in suspend mode Aug 31 12:38:05 does somebody know where the 'locked' key event is handled ? Aug 31 12:38:19 suspend works for me to, but I cannot use GPS/WiFi/usb0 after suspend Aug 31 12:39:05 also if you clikc the power button for going out of suspend and hit it twice or to long, it will shutdown Aug 31 12:39:22 so i have problems with it Aug 31 12:39:38 ok .. thats true .... same problems here Aug 31 12:39:44 i think the window manager handles the lock key press Aug 31 12:39:50 also time is not correct after long suspend Aug 31 12:40:12 ah, didn't noticed yet Aug 31 12:42:36 my idea was, if you lock the display, after some time the display powers of, and if you hit the aux key, it powers on , and if the display is on and you hit the aux key, input is enabled again Aug 31 12:43:25 so i am searchin where the aux key eevnt is handled Aug 31 12:43:33 that should be great Aug 31 12:44:23 since aux triggers the keyboard on debian I would rather use the power button for that and implement some menu to select lock/suspend/shutdown... Aug 31 12:44:56 like the logout screen the big desktops Aug 31 12:46:58 also a possibility, but why let the Display drain (a lot) power when input is disabled ? Aug 31 12:47:39 well can you turn off the screen without killing x? Aug 31 12:47:55 RedFlash: don't let it drain! :) Aug 31 12:48:24 at least we could turn of backlight Aug 31 12:48:31 functionality like you said - turn off and only turn it on if power is pressed - then come up with the unlock screen f.e. Aug 31 12:49:01 * Lo-lan-do switches back to OM2007.2 Aug 31 12:50:03 I'm not touching stuff where a *launcher* uses 30% CPU and the contacts app can't cope with UTF-8. Aug 31 12:53:10 ok .. i would realy be nice if we have a "turn off" menu when we hit the power button ... Aug 31 12:53:28 like 2007.2 ;-) Aug 31 12:53:57 * TeLLuS triped over laptop-powercable.. Running extra backup and noting bad files for reinstallation.. :( Device: /dev/hda, 54 Currently unreadable (pending) sectors, Device: /dev/hda, ATA error count increased from 196 to 243 Need a new disk.. Aug 31 12:54:47 does openmoki have a compact flash jacket or thumb keyboard? Aug 31 12:55:15 we have an µsd slot Aug 31 12:55:21 s/an/a/ Aug 31 12:55:21 Tanuva meant: we have a µsd slot Aug 31 12:56:00 i do not know anything about such slot, you mean mini-USB? Aug 31 12:56:13 no, i mean micro-sd Aug 31 12:56:30 µ means micro :) Aug 31 12:56:30 hi, how can I install a c compiler in my openmoko 2008.8? Aug 31 12:57:08 http://www.flickr.com/photos/67044722%40N00/2702190763/ Aug 31 12:57:12 somebody could help me please? Aug 31 12:57:23 Tanuva: guy installes an adapter there, but that seems just silly Aug 31 12:58:03 joss: why is it silly? If he wants to use it like that, why not? Aug 31 12:58:54 joss: thhis morning I connected via usb a usb pen, a mouse and a 3g modem successfully :D Aug 31 12:58:59 might be useful if your camera just eats cf cards and you want to pull pictures from the cf card to the µsd card in the neo (as backup/portal storage/whatever) Aug 31 12:59:26 portal. portable i mean :/ Aug 31 13:00:01 Tanuva: yeah but does not seem to be everyday usage solution, jackets are for that Aug 31 13:00:34 is there any news about dosbox? Aug 31 13:02:42 Tanuva: i do not understand much, why they do not make those for all models, cf expansion seems powerful, htc has some, ipaq has some, but no gps/qwerty thin model with those Aug 31 13:03:57 joss: I like sd cards, cf is larger (you would never fit them into the neo!) and my camera eats normal sd ones, too Aug 31 13:04:51 Tanuva: yeah some have jacket connectors you know, like an adapter for expanding, makes it bit thicker Aug 31 13:05:33 Tanuva:http://www.expansys-usa.com/d.aspx?i=109731 Aug 31 13:06:42 but that requires some strange connector Aug 31 13:08:23 Tanuva: i think yes, do not know, which htc models, besides those listed has it, but can be made with usb as well it seems, imagine if the usb is located at back of the device Aug 31 13:09:22 ...which would be quite unpractical Aug 31 13:09:34 (does the word "unpractical" exist in english?) Aug 31 13:10:20 Close enough (it's impractical, actually) Aug 31 13:10:29 :) Aug 31 13:10:47 A rather inconsistent language, isn't it? Aug 31 13:11:19 the designers must've been fools... :D Aug 31 13:11:29 (And why is that "in" -- shouldn't it be "unconsistent", or "imconsistent"?) Aug 31 13:11:50 hmm.. "inkonsistent" exists in german, too Aug 31 13:12:01 no one really cares how well you speal in irc Aug 31 13:12:06 seems like it's some latin word I'd guess Aug 31 13:12:32 dns53: that's the problem. One understands me here, but if I get used to such words and use them in classpapers then... *g* Aug 31 13:13:01 dns53: ;) Usually... but I don't talk with people that spell like words like "l33t" :-D Aug 31 13:13:29 0h, 1337n355 c4n b3 qui73 funny 41ic3M0bi13Pin.pdf B14ck 54bb47h V014 Bridg3 C0n57ruc7i0n 537 D35k70p G74 Vic3 Ci7y U53r Fi135 H4cking PDF5 M4i1dir Unkn0wn_4r7i57-Unkn0wn_41bum 4cr33d.i50 41ic3.gpg 4rd0ur 4rd0ur:m4573r 4ud4ci7y1.2mp bi1d3r c0d3 d35ki5 digibi1d3r d0c5 dwh31p3r 317 firmw4r3 g4m35 higru5 hydr050ng5 im4g35 inf0rm47ik in57411.5h irc10g5 1cd474nu.c0nf 1cd474nu7357.c0nf 1mm5 m0k0c4r5_47_nigh7 mu5ik n30kr4m n07iz3n 0p3nm0k0d3v pr0g5 Aug 31 13:13:36 wtf?! Aug 31 13:13:46 my converter's faulty somwhere omfg Aug 31 13:13:51 wh07 j00 d0n7 l1k3 1339 sp34k ? Aug 31 13:14:03 1337* Aug 31 13:14:31 I got bored a few months ago and implemented a leetconverter in c#, but there seems to be something wrong with it Aug 31 13:15:01 Tanuva, you mean except for the fact that it's written in c#? Aug 31 13:15:11 yep, something in addition Aug 31 13:15:15 i c. Aug 31 13:15:21 nowadays I'd do it in python... *hiding* Aug 31 13:15:37 you could just not do it all all, of course. Aug 31 13:15:41 Tanuva, im a perl guy, but everything is better than c# ;0 Aug 31 13:15:47 mwester, aye to that. Aug 31 13:15:50 mwester: which would be quite boring *g* Aug 31 13:16:14 Tanuva, write a moko leet speak app. Aug 31 13:16:20 nah, I should rather continue putting up a thumb-usable mpd client... Aug 31 13:16:35 sending sms in 1337 speak is awesome ;0 Aug 31 13:16:46 Tanuva, suite yourself. Aug 31 13:17:53 ah, there's nothing wrong with the converter. bash just completed the two stars of "*g*" at the end of my message to all the files in my home >.< Aug 31 13:19:04 [Bug] #1933: usb network connection flaky ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1933 ) Aug 31 13:22:55 For anybody running 2008.08 w/ updates: Have you installed Rasterman's keyboard (or got a _good_ terminal keyboard working)? If so, how? I used the replace keyboard from wiki which worked well before the updates, but this caused e to fail this time. Any hints? Aug 31 13:24:04 [Bug] #1934: Can't use headphones during a call ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1934 ) Aug 31 13:24:04 [Bug] #1935: Om 2008.8: Provide additional languages for predictive mode of keyboard ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1935 ) Aug 31 13:25:44 -__ Aug 31 13:26:06 Tanuva: i think there is no sd gsm or cdma card right? Aug 31 13:26:50 gotta luv the bug bot Aug 31 13:26:53 joss: I didn't even know such things exist for cf slots. Aug 31 13:27:15 Tanuva: ah they do, that's why i need it mostly Aug 31 13:27:21 allin one, would be nice Aug 31 13:27:24 heh, tanuvas Aug 31 13:28:39 ehi, somebody could help me please? I can't install gcc on om Aug 31 13:30:27 I just opkg installed gcc Aug 31 13:30:40 but then I need some other things which don't work :( Aug 31 13:32:00 how ddid you install it? Aug 31 13:32:07 is someone get maps displayed in tango gps? cache seems to get something (lot of png) but nothing display in the interface :/ Aug 31 13:32:19 I make opkg install g++ gcc but gcc command isn't aviable Aug 31 13:32:29 works fine for almost everyone I think alx___ Aug 31 13:32:35 aha Aug 31 13:32:41 you need symlinks-gcc Aug 31 13:32:45 hey all =) Aug 31 13:32:56 I installed it but there isn't gcc cmd Aug 31 13:33:04 Zorkman: symlinks-gcc? Aug 31 13:33:11 no Aug 31 13:33:15 gcc-symlinks Aug 31 13:33:19 yeah or gcc symlinks Aug 31 13:33:24 lol Aug 31 13:33:25 ah, sylar91 got it right Aug 31 13:33:35 please wait , i check Aug 31 13:34:00 this one? gcc-symlinks - 4.1.2-r12 - The GNU cc and gcc C compilers. Aug 31 13:34:19 ok it runs now... thx Aug 31 13:36:30 if someone is able to compile sixaxis.c from http://www.pabr.org/sixlinux/sixlinux.en.html#bluetooth he can always PM me :) Aug 31 13:37:53 Anyone sitting on a NX-client for OM? Aug 31 13:39:22 Anybody have the gsmmuxd stuff working with 2008.08 w/ updates Aug 31 13:40:02 Oh and I've seen 2008.08 w/ updates referred to as 2008.9 which doesn't seem right to me... Anybody know it is? Aug 31 13:40:28 playing a game with the wii mote on the go with OM should be awesome :) Aug 31 13:40:30 TeLLuS: I checked, and I've got a chair instead Aug 31 13:40:45 2008.9 is not finished ... Aug 31 13:41:23 But seriously, I just ssh and use the X from my Linux box. Are you just looking for the compression and accel? Aug 31 13:41:48 TAsn: if the neo's fast enough to process wiimote input and the game simultaneously.. Aug 31 13:42:03 Tanuva, which it isn't. ;\ Aug 31 13:43:18 would it be fast enough to emulate a wiimote if you add a usb camera? Aug 31 13:43:24 R.U.Serial? grabbing the location information shouldn't use any processing power. Aug 31 13:44:00 "much" Aug 31 13:44:05 [Bug] #1936: PIN entry should default to numeric input ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1936 ) Aug 31 13:44:30 dns53: image processing is time consuming... maybe if you don't move it too fast Aug 31 13:45:10 well the wii mote only finds the brightest 4 dots in an image and sends that back to the wii Aug 31 13:45:46 but "brightest" requires you to scan the whole image for dots and determine what's a dot and what not Aug 31 13:45:59 and compare their brightness Aug 31 13:47:05 geocode: Yes, want to run over GPRS later and already have a virtual NX-desktop. But I use X connections sometimes also.. I'm running a internetcafé some days with a sports event that way. Aug 31 13:47:19 hi :) Aug 31 13:48:21 sylar91: oh no :P Aug 31 13:48:23 sicu :D Aug 31 13:48:45 ehi dave, hi Aug 31 13:48:52 :P Aug 31 13:48:54 why "oh no"? Aug 31 13:49:02 It's you again :p Aug 31 13:49:11 lol, I'have to run away? Aug 31 13:49:15 That can't be good. Aug 31 13:49:23 lol Aug 31 13:49:28 no gps problem this time Aug 31 13:49:33 :] Aug 31 13:49:35 Good. Aug 31 13:49:40 :D Aug 31 13:49:51 I'm trying to compile xmoto on fr Aug 31 13:50:39 what's hat? Aug 31 13:50:48 hat? oO Aug 31 13:50:59 hi all Aug 31 13:51:06 hi!! fradeve! ciao Aug 31 13:51:23 seguo il tuo blog :D Aug 31 13:51:26 Is anyone using openmoko-feedreader2 as daily feed reader? Aug 31 13:51:41 Dave =D Aug 31 13:52:05 hi Fradeve :) Aug 31 13:52:11 hi fale Aug 31 13:52:44 I've tried to add a feed but nothing happens... Have I to insert manually a new xml file? Aug 31 13:53:06 Fradeve: quando l'ho provato su ubuntu andava bene... Aug 31 13:54:12 sylar91: any luck in increasing the fps in xmoto? or havn't u got that far yet? Aug 31 13:54:51 someone was fiddeling around with it a few days ago, not sure if it was you though Aug 31 13:54:54 I'm compiling now, please wait, I'm installing dependencies Aug 31 13:55:00 ahh .. cool Aug 31 13:55:10 hmm I have problems with mofi and udhcpc :/ Aug 31 13:55:38 Mononoke: What about it? Aug 31 13:56:10 looks like avahi fails and so it can't connect :/ Aug 31 13:58:59 anybody know why some tickets are filed under 2008.8 and some under 2008.9? http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/report/6 Aug 31 13:59:34 Mononoke: Is it the first time after reboot you are connecting? And you know about this bug http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1625 Aug 31 14:00:17 I don' think that it's in driver as it fails on avahi + I'm using 2007.2 :/ Aug 31 14:03:19 and why on earth was '12 hr clock' removed from 2008.9 High Priority :p ^^ Aug 31 14:03:46 Mononoke: Ok, I have not seen any problem to connect to wifi in 2008.8 yet.. exept for it mostly only can be done once.. Aug 31 14:04:23 I'll consider moving to 2008.8, not sure yet Aug 31 14:07:32 Mononoke: If you do, then do not use the latests images, Try 20080827-asu-stable-rootfs.jffs2 and do not run opkg upgrade Aug 31 14:10:03 heh thanks Aug 31 14:10:14 Mononononononoke Aug 31 14:10:33 * Mononoke shoots Dave Aug 31 14:10:58 has anyone experienced troubles with inserting new feeds in openmoko-feedreader2 ? Aug 31 14:24:10 hmm .. somebody knows which program handels the button events ? Aug 31 14:25:29 redflash, depends on the distro Aug 31 14:25:34 but you don't want to know XD Aug 31 14:25:47 2008.8 .. Aug 31 14:27:05 Does the gps work in FSO with neo 1973? Aug 31 14:29:04 [Bug] #1937: gpsd is killed when running /etc/init.d/gpsd restart ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1937 ) Aug 31 14:32:33 Dave: what distro are u running? and do you use the FR as your everyday phone? Aug 31 14:33:45 seem to remember you mentioned 2007.2 a while back? Aug 31 14:38:39 is there a command to restore default settings of alsamixer? Aug 31 14:39:52 sicu, no I don't Aug 31 14:39:56 and yes, I did mention that Aug 31 14:40:04 fradeve, yes Aug 31 14:40:13 /etc/init.d/alsa-utils reset 0 Aug 31 14:40:19 oh, hah! Aug 31 14:41:24 neldoreth: thanks :-* Aug 31 14:42:03 youre welcome Aug 31 14:42:04 neldoreth: -sh: /etc/init.d/alsa-utils: not found Aug 31 14:42:14 yeah its something like that Aug 31 14:58:19 how do you send an SMS? Aug 31 14:58:33 I wrote it, and is now archived, but can't find the button to send it Aug 31 14:58:44 is this documented? Aug 31 15:04:05 [Bug] #1938: tzdata package should not overwrite /etc/localtime ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1938 ) Aug 31 15:05:58 heh, a silly question i think, aren't there adapters that provide expandable memory slots over bluetooth connection? Aug 31 15:05:59 powering up wifi breaks my usb ssh connection lately, anyone else have this problem? Aug 31 15:08:14 TeLLuS, where can one get 20080827-asu-stable-rootfs.jffs2? on downloads.om i only see the daily builds Aug 31 15:14:09 you have both daily and releases at: http://downloads.openmoko.org/ Aug 31 15:15:13 http://www.hcw.be/p.aspx?p=B7336 what does this kind of device do? Aug 31 15:15:16 but the jffs2 is 20080831, not 20080827, hmmm Aug 31 15:15:55 yeah, looks like they delete the older ones... Aug 31 15:17:06 joss: bluetooth is quite slow. Aug 31 15:18:48 SpeedEvil: i think this only converting the gps from cf to blueooth, i doubt it really provides an cf slot over blueooth like i wished:) Aug 31 15:20:23 joss: it doesnt, it just transmits the gps data via bluetooth Aug 31 15:20:57 but a bluetooth cf slot would be neat =D Aug 31 15:21:23 hi Aug 31 15:21:47 hey Aug 31 15:21:48 has someone managed to send an SMS with om2007? I'm lost in this maze of icons and can't figure it out :-/ Aug 31 15:21:54 sicu: SpeedEvil. thinks bluetooth is little slow for it, i guess that's whay there aren't such Aug 31 15:21:55 im having problems with python-evas while building fso Aug 31 15:21:59 nyu, it's the button on the top left Aug 31 15:22:28 sicu: though i am still searching, but pretty much seems there are no such things:) Aug 31 15:22:38 even for pc Aug 31 15:22:59 mjr: the one that looks like a phone? Aug 31 15:23:21 anyone here build fso from source ? Aug 31 15:23:25 SpeedEvil: so gps is slower and gsm, that they offer their services over bluetooth? Aug 31 15:24:10 joss: Mind rephrasing that? Aug 31 15:24:39 abraxa_: there seem to be some globalsat gps/gprs modules even, that communicate via bluetooth Aug 31 15:25:24 joss: I have no admit I'm not quite sure what GSM and GPRS have to do with the module you linked us to Aug 31 15:26:25 abraxa_: this wont do gsm i think, as i understand it takes cf card and passes bluetooth gps signal to the host Aug 31 15:26:30 which seems pointless Aug 31 15:27:04 Yup and yup Aug 31 15:27:06 abraxa_: i at first thought that takes arbitary cf card:) Aug 31 15:27:45 Kinda funny to me, though, how a Neo can replace that module and provide GPS via BT as well. Aug 31 15:28:22 hehe, weird stuff to be too Aug 31 15:29:07 anybody know why qpe is using as much cpu as possible _all_ the time? Aug 31 15:30:06 abraxa_: seems there is no such thing as wireless cf reader:) Aug 31 15:36:19 anybody know how to replace the default keyboard on 2008.8 w/ updates? I would like to switch it to the "Terminal" like one I have used on all previous versions, but now with the "2008.8 updates" distro, I cannot seem to get the instructions on the wiki to work Aug 31 15:36:52 Anybody know how to install Rasterman's keyboard setup (from his distro) over top the 2008.8-updates distro? Aug 31 15:37:23 geocode: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2008.8_Keyboard#Using_the_Full_Qwerty_keyboard Aug 31 15:37:40 but I'm not sure if that is the same as rasterman's Aug 31 15:42:14 Yeah that's what didn't work for me this time Aug 31 15:42:19 It worked on 2008.8 Aug 31 15:42:25 but didn't work on my updates version Aug 31 15:42:41 Althought I have been messing around with it again to see if I can't get it to work Aug 31 15:45:49 btw, thanks for the response stevenSn Aug 31 15:49:12 can i use a more recent kernel with 2007.2? Aug 31 15:49:35 (a uImage from the daily feed for example) Aug 31 15:50:13 Yes. You may need to update the modules, though. Aug 31 15:51:12 mwester: how do i do that? Aug 31 15:52:11 If you're not sure how, then it might not be a good idea to do it... but basically you would flash the kernel in the normal fashion, and untar the matching modules.tar.gz into /lib/modules. Aug 31 15:52:31 ok Aug 31 15:52:42 well, i'm familiar with baking my own kernel Aug 31 15:52:49 is there a way to get the information if the display of the freerunner is in horizontal mode (xrandr -o left) Aug 31 15:52:57 but usually i don't use binary distros Aug 31 15:55:16 if i only type xrandr i only get the actual resolution marked with a * Aug 31 16:04:34 anyone know anything about installing illume-config-illume. I am using 2008.8-updates. I do not have the testing feed configured. I could easily do this, but am worried about stability afterward. Any thoughts? Aug 31 16:05:45 geocode, i had it installed while using zecke's a few days ago Aug 31 16:06:04 before they apparently dropped zecke's and moved to a "stable version" Aug 31 16:06:10 right.... Aug 31 16:06:14 it worked, and i had no real issues, but i set it terribly Aug 31 16:06:19 Yeah I had the keyboard from the wiki working Aug 31 16:06:31 that way with zeckes.... Aug 31 16:06:34 i had some bad settings i think, made the animations too slow....and couldn't undo them Aug 31 16:06:37 Now, I get no love... Aug 31 16:06:48 but i don't think it was necessarily unstable Aug 31 16:06:55 i could still make and receive calls, no programs crashed Aug 31 16:07:08 I'm scared to turn on the testing feed. Last time I did that ... Well lets just say I had to re image.... Aug 31 16:07:08 it didn't seem like all of the illume settings worked Aug 31 16:07:21 eh---i expect to reimage a lot now-a-days Aug 31 16:07:25 all the new things coming out Aug 31 16:07:26 Right now they've disabled the illume settings Aug 31 16:07:30 :-) Aug 31 16:07:56 ahhh Aug 31 16:08:03 i'm still getting used to the setup Aug 31 16:10:32 Yeah no wrench any more... Aug 31 16:11:26 I liked having the options there... Not real happy with some of the decisions that have been made, but I'll be happy to get things thing to be a stable phone/SMS/GPS/internet device for the short term :-) Aug 31 16:11:44 fyi if somebody likes to use a ps sixaxis controller on the neo/fr, you can try http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/misc/sixpair Aug 31 16:11:51 Oh and a text editor... Gotta be able to jot down notes Aug 31 16:14:14 So many versions and updates and different instructions that fall out of date so quickly. this stuff is in such a state of flux, I can't keep up... As soon as I get 3 of the 5 features working, a fix for a forth comes out but when I install it it breaks one of the first three and then the instructions for that one don't work anymore ;-\ Aug 31 16:14:25 makes me cross eyed Aug 31 16:15:46 well, left my battery out of the phone for twelve hours, put it back in and plugged it in for ten minutes, still won't come on... either the battery died or the phone did :( Aug 31 16:16:04 shame, was gonna give a talk at the local python user group on how to program for this too Aug 31 16:17:27 paroneayea: I think you have it backwards -- leave the battery out for 10 minutes, then put it back in and let it charge for several hours before attempting to power it up. Aug 31 16:18:08 mwester: hm. Maybe I'll try that with this usb device wall charger I have Aug 31 16:18:18 might go faster Aug 31 16:18:30 (although all the recent u-boot changes may have changed some of that standard behavior) Aug 31 16:18:52 paroneayea: why not with the charger that came with the freerunner? Aug 31 16:18:52 paroneayea, yeah--that's not abnormal for the battery to be beyond booting up the system Aug 31 16:19:11 100mA charge, here you come Aug 31 16:19:19 mwester: because it's a 1973 Aug 31 16:19:26 and it didn't come with a charger. Aug 31 16:19:33 Ah, ok. Then the u-boot changes won't affect it. Aug 31 16:19:39 I run into that all the time. Aug 31 16:20:36 think a standard motorola usb wall charger will work? Aug 31 16:20:36 The good news is that I've probably done that to the battery several dozen times, and I've always gotten it to charge enough to boot up in a few hours. Aug 31 16:20:48 or will that kill my 1973 :) Aug 31 16:20:55 mwester: that's comforting Aug 31 16:21:02 maybe I need to stop panicing so much :( Aug 31 16:21:03 Oh -- the wall charger won't make a bit of difference; the neo will select 100ma no matter what. Aug 31 16:21:04 :P Aug 31 16:21:08 ah Aug 31 16:21:34 I constantly have my battery too discharged (forgetting to turn the suspend back on after using GPS) Aug 31 16:21:44 It is quite a pain to get it to start charging Aug 31 16:21:54 I'll try like 3 times for hours and it won't start Aug 31 16:22:00 Just don't plug it into a Windoze box; they may try to enumerate the USB if the neo shows any signs of life, but then when the neo powers back off, the windoze box turns off power to the port -- and it'll never ever charge. :( Aug 31 16:22:11 Then it just seems too work all of a sudden Aug 31 16:22:45 I always switch back and forth between the wall usb adapter and my linux boxes usb adapter... Aug 31 16:22:46 shiiiit git is slow Aug 31 16:22:57 fetch? Aug 31 16:23:02 clone Aug 31 16:23:16 uh huh, full repository copy Aug 31 16:23:23 over the network? Aug 31 16:23:24 uhm Aug 31 16:23:35 tomboy64: try monotone (that's what was in use before git). Your grandchildren may get to see it finish syncing. Aug 31 16:23:47 :-D Aug 31 16:23:59 btw Aug 31 16:24:12 the wiki-kernel page sent me here http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/gitweb?p=kernel.git;a=summary Aug 31 16:24:17 so i'm doing a clone now Aug 31 16:24:17 Yeah sometimes I would rather just get a copy of HEAD and leave the repository elsewhere :-) Aug 31 16:24:33 Seriously, the OE folks still use monotone. I frequently blow away my entire database and download the tarball copy from the OE site, rather than attempt to sync more than a few dozen updates. Aug 31 16:24:34 and then switch to the stable tree Aug 31 16:24:40 is that correct? Aug 31 16:25:03 or would it be quicker to download a tarball and apply a patchset? Aug 31 16:25:03 That'll work. But you'll need a toolchain too. Aug 31 16:25:10 mhmm Aug 31 16:25:18 No, no tarball exists to apply a patchset. Aug 31 16:25:35 a pity Aug 31 16:25:43 that quite honestly sucks ^^ Aug 31 16:25:44 The toolchain should be downloadable from somewhere on the om site. Aug 31 16:26:05 It's big, and if you're having trouble downloading the git repo, the toolchain is going to be painful too. Aug 31 16:26:40 oh Aug 31 16:26:44 size is not an issue Aug 31 16:26:48 but ... Aug 31 16:27:11 i'm seriously considering calling a mate and setting up an own buildhost for that shit Aug 31 16:27:52 get mokomakefile, make openmoko-toolchain Aug 31 16:27:55 nor? Aug 31 16:28:01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Aug 31 16:28:23 does it provide a kernel target? Aug 31 16:29:34 make build-package-kernel... Aug 31 16:29:45 that one could qualify Aug 31 16:30:01 It builds everything required... starting by building your own local copies of system utilities it doesn't trust your host to have, the toolchain, then all dependencies required to build a final firmware image. In the midst of all that, it will build a kernel too. But you can't really build the kernel, or easily do custom work on it, with the Makefile. Aug 31 16:30:34 If you are working on the kernel (patching, etc), you want to clone the git kernel repo and do it the normal "kernel" way. Aug 31 16:31:22 (The makefile will try to be smarter than you, and will often overwrite, or appear to ignore, your changes... it's really quite a pain for kernel devs. Aug 31 16:31:25 ) Aug 31 16:32:16 (But it does a fabulous job of building an image, and a toolchain, which is what the Makefile is designed to do, of course!) Aug 31 16:35:55 hmm Aug 31 16:36:36 is there anything that definitely requires to be built as a module in the kernel? Aug 31 16:37:00 cause i would much prefer a purely monolithic blob Aug 31 16:39:51 okay rebooting... I've installed all the gsm gmuxd stuff for gprs and phone at same time (with GUI) under 2008.8-updates... We'll see how it goes Aug 31 16:44:25 mwester: alright, you're right, it booted... I've learned my lesson.. I'll stop crying wolf on my phone being dead in this channel ;) Aug 31 16:44:47 Does anyone have an issue where their phone rings, but they can't answer it? Aug 31 16:45:36 (using Debian FSO zhone) Aug 31 16:47:39 brian_252: hm... haven't had that... any other symptoms? Aug 31 16:47:48 has this happened just once, or all the time? Aug 31 16:47:52 paroneayea: Not that i know of yet. Aug 31 16:48:00 I shall check again now. Aug 31 16:48:31 btw this default ring tone is hilarious Aug 31 16:49:01 Tao? Aug 31 16:49:10 paraneayea: repeated Aug 31 16:49:28 The answer button flashes blue, but the ring does not stop. Aug 31 16:49:34 fSo? Aug 31 16:50:15 yes Aug 31 16:50:40 confirmed here Aug 31 16:50:48 So how many ppl in here are using 2008.8 or similar vs. fso vs debian etc? Aug 31 16:51:09 i'm using FSO Debian Aug 31 16:51:15 *shurg* but it would be real nice to gather some statistics. Aug 31 16:51:38 answer appears broken Aug 31 16:51:46 hm Aug 31 16:51:51 it was working for me just yesterday Aug 31 16:52:38 any updates for foray? Aug 31 16:52:51 today Aug 31 16:53:31 predictive keyboard Aug 31 16:53:54 does someboy know where the program is that 'locks' the Display ? Aug 31 16:55:30 k want alt for rotate Aug 31 16:55:31 2008.8 Aug 31 16:56:45 8-) Aug 31 17:09:31 moko moko moko Aug 31 17:11:15 nom nom nom Aug 31 17:11:45 :P Aug 31 17:12:17 I'd imagine eating one would be pointy, hurty, and dissatisfying. Aug 31 17:12:23 because it's a brokenmoko :p Aug 31 17:13:15 back from the antarctic, bricode? :P Aug 31 17:14:32 My screen goes black if I dont touch it for a while... and it's impossible to bring it back. wifi/usb network stays up though and my ssh session lives on - anyone else seen this? Aug 31 17:14:40 Just now I saw it fade out - displaying a big ugly X logo Aug 31 17:16:31 gromgull: mine goes black if it's on battery some time without using it, but then pressing the power button once wake it up Aug 31 17:17:14 tuXXX - nope powerbutton does nothing Aug 31 17:17:17 nor aux Aug 31 17:17:20 nor touching the screen Aug 31 17:18:50 This typically happens gormgull Aug 31 17:19:28 Usually it means the phone has entered suspend mode, but there is a software problem currently on some phone distributions preventing it from resuming (coming out of suspend) properly. Aug 31 17:19:45 But suspend should kill wifi and my ssh session, surely? Aug 31 17:19:52 so perhaps it fails to suspend properly Aug 31 17:19:53 For the time being, I believe that if your phone does that, you should stop using suspend. Aug 31 17:20:02 right Aug 31 17:20:09 In other words, the suspend/resume is all fucked up :D Aug 31 17:20:23 :) Aug 31 17:20:26 and actually, no gromgull, it's not designed to all go to sleep Aug 31 17:20:34 but for the time being, it's just very underdeveloped Aug 31 17:20:37 Actually now I tried restarting the xserver, then it really crashed :) Aug 31 17:20:54 the gsm modem is never dropped, because people wanted the ability for their phone to wakeup when you receive a call Aug 31 17:21:04 that makes sense Aug 31 17:21:05 gromgull, cool :D (well, sort of :P ) Aug 31 17:21:07 right Aug 31 17:21:22 unfortunately, this has left it even more fucked up, because now the gsm modem wakes it up before it can ever fully sleep Aug 31 17:21:31 so often it doesn't ever suspend in the first place Aug 31 17:21:44 I think it's safe to say the whole suspend feature needs a lot of work :P Aug 31 17:21:53 :) Aug 31 17:22:27 oh, and as you may have noticed, killing certain processes tends to blow things up on the phone :D Aug 31 17:22:32 (crashing it) Aug 31 17:23:23 yes - i've tried this before ... as well Aug 31 17:23:33 So - without suspend battery life is a bit of an issue though... Aug 31 17:24:24 is there anyway to get text messages to tell who they are coming from? All I get is the number that is sending it Aug 31 17:24:31 I never know who it is according to my address book Aug 31 17:25:06 put the landcode into your contact phone number and they will appear when they are calling/sms Aug 31 17:25:30 landcode? Aug 31 17:25:36 +32 for belgium Aug 31 17:25:40 oh Aug 31 17:25:57 so i have to edit each of them? that seems like a real pain to be honest Aug 31 17:26:07 there has to be some way to say "all of these are from the US" Aug 31 17:26:25 No, there isn't a cool way Aug 31 17:26:29 that sucks Aug 31 17:26:40 oh well, i'll start doing it to those who text me most Aug 31 17:27:27 and else, search a young child who loves to play with cellphones and ask him to do it ;) Aug 31 17:27:30 works always Aug 31 17:28:49 dolf1074, hahaha, awesome Aug 31 17:29:43 so, in the us, if i add a 1 to everyone, it'll work Aug 31 17:30:47 +1 en dan de eerste nul wegdoen Aug 31 17:31:04 bv 042163152 -> 0142163152 Aug 31 17:31:24 sorry, bv 042163152 -> +142163152 Aug 31 17:31:36 :o Aug 31 17:32:25 so Dave - no using suspend... but there is a current bug that makes the Settings app update apm, or? Can I disable it from the shell somehow? Aug 31 17:34:09 gromgull? Aug 31 17:34:13 yep Aug 31 17:34:16 You can simply set it not to suspend. Aug 31 17:34:32 In the Settings application? This doesn't seem to make any difference Aug 31 17:35:18 http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1928 Aug 31 17:35:25 :| Aug 31 17:35:29 crud Aug 31 17:35:33 I'm unsure of which distro you're using :P Aug 31 17:35:37 Om2008.08 Aug 31 17:35:41 updated today Aug 31 17:35:46 oh heh Aug 31 17:35:51 I'm not sure about 2008.8 Aug 31 17:35:55 or it's updates Aug 31 17:36:01 I know that the power menu in 2007.2 works fine :P Aug 31 17:36:04 Right - what do you use? 2007.2 still? Aug 31 17:36:05 right Aug 31 17:36:06 This http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=262 got me thinking: do we already have quake on the openmoko phones? Aug 31 17:36:08 yeah :) Aug 31 17:36:12 hmm - maybe I should have kept it :) Aug 31 17:36:15 Cesarb! Aug 31 17:36:19 (Everything has to have quake or doom ported to it) Aug 31 17:36:19 I don't have the problem with om2008.8 and the stable updates Aug 31 17:36:25 Dave: hi Aug 31 17:36:26 Cesarb, no, but I've been working on doom and heretic packages :) Aug 31 17:36:33 Dave: heh Aug 31 17:36:36 Cesarb, I agree! Aug 31 17:36:52 Dave: that link is interesting because it has a input scheme for another device with no buttons Aug 31 17:37:06 Dave: which could be used on the FR too (but not on the accelerometerless GTA01) Aug 31 17:37:07 Cesarb, fascinating! Aug 31 17:37:15 There was a "of course it runs quake" webpage i think... Aug 31 17:37:23 well, I wish there was more than just accelerometer input. Aug 31 17:37:36 Though it is interesting nonetheless. Aug 31 17:37:44 szwing zwing Aug 31 17:37:47 hack slash Aug 31 17:38:02 Dave: that link uses the accelerometers, a tilt switch (could use the accelerometers too), and touch screen Aug 31 17:38:28 Dear package maintainers, if you are going to add a new dependency to one of your packages, please make sure it is first added to the repositories! Thanks. Aug 31 17:38:36 cesarb, yes :) Aug 31 17:39:43 Dave: where's my greeting ? Aug 31 17:40:39 Fuck you. Aug 31 17:40:47 :) Aug 31 17:43:32 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r912ba4580f72 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input-helpers.c input-helpers.h input.plugin input.vala): Aug 31 17:43:32 freesmartphone.org: added charger and headset events. Aug 31 17:43:32 freesmartphone.org: refactor code a bit Aug 31 17:43:32 freesmartphone.org: FIXME: the high CPU usage still needs to be fixed Aug 31 17:43:32 freesmartphone.org: FIXED: idlenotifier and input plugins works together now (hopefully Aug 31 17:43:36 freesmartphone.org: without problems) Aug 31 17:45:03 Dave: how mature Aug 31 17:45:20 Obviously :) Aug 31 17:45:31 now .. behave Aug 31 17:45:52 You too, please. :) Aug 31 17:46:37 you're the one who's cussing here Aug 31 17:54:00 Hm, how do I power off on FSO? Aug 31 17:54:54 cesarb: take out the battery Aug 31 17:55:17 edistar: seriously Aug 31 17:55:29 press the power button for 9 seconds Aug 31 17:55:37 that is serious.. Aug 31 17:56:18 * cesarb does it the rebel way and types "halt" on the terminal Aug 31 17:56:30 has anybody opencitymap tested on qtopia? Aug 31 17:56:39 which, by the way, is quite usable... Aug 31 17:57:55 cesarb: hold the power button for a few seconds Aug 31 17:58:26 Now I just have to find out why does the battery display on FSO fails (the same way it failed on 2007.2). Is that because I'm on a GTA01, or is it because I'm on a 2.6.26 kernel instead of the default 2.6.24? Aug 31 17:58:58 what do you mean with fail? Aug 31 17:59:11 edistar: it shows a blank battery symbol Aug 31 17:59:19 edistar: 2007.2 showed an "error" one Aug 31 17:59:21 I presume it's because you're on a gta01 Aug 31 17:59:52 wasn't there a hw change with the battery pins? Aug 31 18:00:46 edistar: there was a hw change with the power management chip, which is a more probable cause Aug 31 18:00:50 edistar: the path is different Aug 31 18:00:56 okey Aug 31 18:01:04 should be easy to change in zhone Aug 31 18:05:19 Got an AT&T Pay as you go SIM last night. It registers straight away. Aug 31 18:06:02 Is it possible to fetch the remaining time via some sort of script? Aug 31 18:06:54 I think I saw a python script on the list that can do so Aug 31 18:07:51 has anybody been able to get the FR to sync time from the GSM network? Aug 31 18:08:11 Now I've got my phone and SIM. Time to start fetching and building apps to wow friends! Aug 31 18:10:05 johngay: did you get a phone with it too? Aug 31 18:10:17 No, just the SIM. Aug 31 18:10:37 k Aug 31 18:11:19 Anyone using 2007.2? Aug 31 18:12:52 no i'm a 2008.8 fan Aug 31 18:13:46 I tried 2008.8 yesterday, but suspend was broken and my phone kept dropping PuTTY every time the phone suspended. Aug 31 18:14:04 [Bug] #1939: wifi crashes the device ( http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1939 ) Aug 31 18:14:17 Wich image did you use? The 2008.8 update? Aug 31 18:14:37 * CVirus thinks that OM shall hire more developers Aug 31 18:14:44 hopes so Aug 31 18:15:08 this is taking too much Aug 31 18:15:22 I was always against "productizing" FLOSS projects :-p Aug 31 18:16:31 isn't OM a commercial project from the ground up? Aug 31 18:16:36 What ever was on the download page. Om2008.8-gta02-20080830.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 31 18:16:55 (not that I see anything wrong with that, as long as the hardware & the code is free) Aug 31 18:17:25 CVirus: It's more being pregnant -- more people doesn't make any difference in the amount of time it takes to project completion. :) Aug 31 18:17:39 haha :-D Aug 31 18:17:44 OM is a commercial entity trying to use FOSS to build a better mouse-trap ^C^C^C^C phone. Aug 31 18:17:47 IMO, Om's big issue is lack of organization and the inability to get the community effectively involved. Aug 31 18:18:06 I just hope they'll be able to hire developers fast enough to replace the ones that are burning out and leaving the company Aug 31 18:18:16 mmontour: totally agreed Aug 31 18:18:25 johngay: should be the same, strange. Aug 31 18:18:48 mmontour: I don't think it'll make any difference. I rather suspect that the developers knew how baaaaaaaad the concept of 2008.8 was in the first place. Aug 31 18:18:53 johngay: yeah, the only thing you can do is wait till om fixes these problems in a new release Aug 31 18:19:13 Someone logged a bug after they'd updated to the daily build and his phone wouldn't susspend. Aug 31 18:19:33 I'll just stick with 2007.2 for now. Aug 31 18:19:59 mwester: agreed, but there's hope for getting things back on track with FSO Aug 31 18:20:53 :) But you'll note that FSO is not an Om project... it's Mickeyl's vision, and being done as a community project. Aug 31 18:20:57 I have om2007.2/om2008.8/Qtopia/Debian/FSO on my phone, but i'm using 2008.8 mostly because I can connect to wifi +wpa without trouble Aug 31 18:21:33 ASU was basic commercial workflow. Take something that's more stable and push it out the door until you get time to polish what you really want to offer. Aug 31 18:22:30 OM is supporting it though - Sean confirmed this on the community list yesterday "But make no mistake, future versions of Om will use this framework. We've invested lots of time and money into it" Aug 31 18:23:02 I don't believe that statement is completely true the way it reads. Aug 31 18:23:07 I still think that we don't have a really big community for effective contributions Aug 31 18:23:14 so most of the work must be done by OM employees Aug 31 18:23:52 The community _had_ many very competent people; they got discouraged and many left, simply because Om could not organize around a community. Aug 31 18:24:10 true Aug 31 18:24:11 There are still many very good developers right here on this channel. Aug 31 18:24:18 johngay: except that it wasn't (still isn't) "more stable". Aug 31 18:24:35 They almost all wait for Om to do something, rather than all participate in an Om-sponsored project. Aug 31 18:25:25 mwester: OM hired only 2 developers to work on the kernel !! Aug 31 18:25:31 The single most damaging blow to the community, IMO, was when Om dumped the GTK stuff, and headed off like a spooked horse on the stupid ASU track. Aug 31 18:25:33 Andy Green and Werner Aug 31 18:25:36 not enough by any means Aug 31 18:25:38 In hindsight they probably should've just shipped the FR with Trolltech Qtopia, skipped ASU, and written their new stuff in parallel with the FSO backend Aug 31 18:25:54 mwester: Qt is the future Aug 31 18:26:05 mmontour: no X11? Aug 31 18:26:28 loses a lot of cool factor then Aug 31 18:26:35 agreed Aug 31 18:26:39 CVirus: :) Then Om should have joined with Trolltech to make Qtopia the stack of choice. Aug 31 18:26:50 Not create some "franken-image" Aug 31 18:26:58 I wish Sean was here to read this Aug 31 18:27:23 He's heard it all, I'm sure, and lives in his only bright and shiney executive world. Aug 31 18:27:25 why does qpe keep scanning my filesystem (using logs of IO and cpu time) ? Aug 31 18:27:36 LOL @ mwester Aug 31 18:27:48 nyu: A sort-of-working phone, onto which people can install their own software (including X11) Aug 31 18:27:58 mwester: does Qtopia have a true commitment to freedom? for example, what about Ogg support, which Nokia doesn't like? Aug 31 18:28:02 stevenSn: It's a feature. It's looking for multimedia files (which it can't play very well anyway). Aug 31 18:28:17 nyu: I have no idea. But it works, and nothing else really does. Aug 31 18:28:30 mwester: om2007 works too Aug 31 18:28:42 it just has many bugs Aug 31 18:28:45 mwester: Is there a way I can disable that feature? Aug 31 18:28:51 nyu: That's true, but om2007 is incomplete, and abandoned by Om. Aug 31 18:29:03 what I'd like is if there was a stable branch Aug 31 18:29:09 where only bugfixes went in Aug 31 18:29:11 stevenSn: Check the distro mailing list archives, I think someone mentioned how you can disable it. Aug 31 18:33:28 mwester: found it, thanks Aug 31 18:35:32 hi, somebody could help me please? Aug 31 18:36:03 I can't use battery app Aug 31 18:38:07 Dave: Still in Costa Rica. Aug 31 18:43:30 sylar91: You'll probably have to be more specific with your question in order to get some useful answers... Aug 31 18:43:59 np, I solved... Aug 31 18:48:11 Isn't there a method to create "folder" in the home of 2008.8 in order to have apps links subdivided into "categories"? Aug 31 18:50:34 hello * Aug 31 18:56:03 Any uboot heads in the audience? Aug 31 18:59:16 how can i disable prediction in the 2008 keyboard? (kind of useless for wifi passwords ;) Aug 31 19:00:08 Wiedi: qtopia keyboard? delete the wordlist Aug 31 19:00:13 it's all in the wiki Aug 31 19:00:40 ah ok thanks ;) Aug 31 19:02:55 i like this idea: http://wendt.se/software/openmoko/screens/keyboard-layer.png Aug 31 19:03:20 Zorkman: awesome Aug 31 19:03:23 oh cool Aug 31 19:03:38 i guess it works good only on landscape mode Aug 31 19:03:43 Zorkman: but then how do you copy & cut? Aug 31 19:03:45 it's only a mock-up Aug 31 19:04:00 nyu: you would have to press the keyboard button and toggle the kb I presume Aug 31 19:04:25 Zorkman: is that gtk+? Aug 31 19:04:27 or maybe click and hold goes "through" the keyboard Aug 31 19:04:40 nyu: it's just "art" not a real program :) Aug 31 19:04:55 but it seems feasable to me... Aug 31 19:05:05 Zorkman: why do you break things to me? :-/ Aug 31 19:05:19 I was happy believing it was real Aug 31 19:05:28 :) the fact that it doesn't exist doesn't mean it will never :) Aug 31 19:05:47 nothing really does. but at least I can dram Aug 31 19:05:48 *dream Aug 31 19:07:32 Zorkman: has to be usable Aug 31 19:07:42 Zorkman: you want to press aux all the time while typing? Aug 31 19:07:53 ?? why do you say that edistar? Aug 31 19:08:01 just asking Aug 31 19:08:12 thinking about the concept Aug 31 19:08:13 no, I don't like pressing aux at all :) Aug 31 19:08:16 ok Aug 31 19:08:37 in my mind it would just "pop up" like the normal keyboard or you turn it on by clicking the qwerty button Aug 31 19:08:38 but how would you then distinguish between keyboard input and program input? Aug 31 19:08:41  Isn't there a method to create "folder" in the home of 2008.8 in order to have apps links subdivided into "categories"? Aug 31 19:08:48 sylar91: there isn't Aug 31 19:08:57 raster said that in this chan I think Aug 31 19:09:04 sylar91: not yet at least Aug 31 19:09:07 but he's going to make it possible under FSO I think :) Aug 31 19:09:27 so I noticed that illume-config-illume is available in the repos (at least for 2008.8-update/testing). is it supposed to give me the illume keyboard and extra config options? or is that somehting different? Aug 31 19:09:39 Toaster`: no, that is it Aug 31 19:09:54 edistar: the colors/alpha values will have to be tweaked, maybe even auto-adaptable to the color of the underlaying program Aug 31 19:10:01 where can i download the ipk of illume-config-illume? Aug 31 19:10:04 Toaster`: but it doesn't work here Aug 31 19:10:11 Zorkman: yeah, the concept is nice Aug 31 19:10:13 sylar91: the testing feeds of 2008.8 Aug 31 19:10:20 but it won't be a direct input keyboard then Aug 31 19:10:25 Zorkman: I'm noticing as well, hence why I'm asking. Aug 31 19:10:35 and "press and hold" to click on the underlying program would be nice I think Aug 31 19:10:40 and things like ctrl + c will be slightly harder to implement/use Aug 31 19:10:54 why that edistar? Aug 31 19:11:29 the testing feeds? where? Oo Aug 31 19:11:32 Zorkman: do you know the nokia internet tablet fulscreen keyboarD? Aug 31 19:11:36 *keyboard Aug 31 19:11:37 just a popup of the keyboard with a cancel on the bottom. Aug 31 19:11:43 that would do it Aug 31 19:11:44 no edistar, haven't seen it Aug 31 19:11:53 ok, it's similar, just not transparent Aug 31 19:11:56 but fullscreen Aug 31 19:12:08 ah, but that kinde sucks.. if you can't see what you've typed... Aug 31 19:12:10 dolf1074: then it'd have to pop up all the time Aug 31 19:12:15 sylar91: the testing repos are listed on the wiki Aug 31 19:12:24 Zorkman: you can because it has an input field at the top Aug 31 19:12:25 it will pop up when you click a text entry Aug 31 19:12:45 sylar91: standard rules apply, things may not work, randomly break, annoy your cat, etc. Aug 31 19:12:52 so the app would just run, the keyboard would be a layer up and transparent and you could input stuff? Aug 31 19:13:13 edistar: that should be perfect as keyboard, isn't it? Aug 31 19:13:14 I would like it be like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards#Modified_Matchbox_Keyboard:_finger_friendly Aug 31 19:13:27 scenario: 3 text fields Aug 31 19:13:37 that has every key, also ctr-c and esc and you can use arrows and whatever you want Aug 31 19:13:39 you tap into the first text field.. write something Aug 31 19:14:02 then you have to cancel the keyboard, tap into the second text field and then get the keyboard again Aug 31 19:14:08 somehow not really practical Aug 31 19:14:16 I like it Aug 31 19:14:22 edistar: that's why I would like us to be able to "press and hold" that would go "through" the keyboard and select the next line Aug 31 19:14:30 me to, especially the transparent bit Aug 31 19:14:36 line=textbox Aug 31 19:14:36 Zorkman: yeah, good idea too Aug 31 19:14:45 press and hold will take longer than just tap 2 times Aug 31 19:14:50 someone should do that.. Aug 31 19:14:57 dolf1074: depends how much action you want Aug 31 19:14:59 dolf1074: depends on the speed the FR has for popping it up and down :-) Aug 31 19:15:07 even Aug 31 19:15:10 and if you want to scroll, you have to press, hold and than scroll Aug 31 19:15:20 yeah Aug 31 19:15:27 that's quite cool ;) Aug 31 19:15:41 dolf1074: there should of course be a button to easily remove it, that way you can chose, press and hold or pull it down and back up Aug 31 19:15:48 perfect Aug 31 19:15:54 but maybe the transparent bit is slightly to heavy for glamo? Aug 31 19:15:54 now somebody who makes it :p Aug 31 19:16:08 yeah, i'm also worrying about that edistar :( Aug 31 19:16:11 and you need a wm that can handle it Aug 31 19:16:16 edistar: FSO has transparant Aug 31 19:16:28 dolf1074: yes, but not several layers of programs Aug 31 19:16:35 Zorkman: after installing illume-config-illume I should only need to restart the xserver right? not a full reboot Aug 31 19:16:54 Zorkman: to see if it did install properly by chance Aug 31 19:16:56 i think it's worth to try ;) Aug 31 19:17:03 dolf1074: completely different to be able to show 2 windows at the same time or one windows that calculated transparency itself Aug 31 19:17:04 Toaster`: i think you need to reboot Aug 31 19:17:25 but maybe wms can do that already.. Aug 31 19:17:53 maybe implement ist as an e17 module Aug 31 19:18:37 Zorkman: are you a programmer? Aug 31 19:18:55 edistar: not really :( Aug 31 19:19:00 ehi is there an apps to create link to shell commands? Aug 31 19:19:14 what do you mean sylar91?N Aug 31 19:19:25 Zorkman: heel klein beetje teminste? Aug 31 19:19:50 edistar: een heeeeeeeel klein beetje, maar ik draai pas linux sinds 1.5 maand :) Aug 31 19:20:09 an apps that show a list of commands to launch Aug 31 19:20:11 what language? Aug 31 19:20:15 only know java and a little bit c (python doesn't seem difficult, but i have never tried it) Aug 31 19:20:23 so no programmer at all :) Aug 31 19:20:30 ok Aug 31 19:20:33 bit of c is ok Aug 31 19:20:53 ok boys, if an apps like this doesn't exists, i'll create one... it isn't hard Aug 31 19:21:28 sylar91: create one Aug 31 19:21:35 sylar91: we would all welcome this :) Aug 31 19:21:45 np Aug 31 19:22:21 btw: I got the info from a mail on the community mailing list, a guy named Frederik Wendt made it Aug 31 19:22:33 made what? Aug 31 19:22:41 made what? Aug 31 19:22:44 hehe Aug 31 19:22:55 the png, the image Aug 31 19:22:59 what made? :O Aug 31 19:23:02 oO Aug 31 19:23:03 ah, okey Aug 31 19:23:04 http://wendt.se/software/openmoko/screens/keyboard-layer.png Aug 31 19:23:13 tunys is traveling northwest at 1 mile per hour, or so his FreeRunner is telling him. In reality, tunys and his FreeRunner are sitting perfectly still downloading maps. Aug 31 19:23:18 I see it right before my eyes.. Aug 31 19:23:27 and what is this? Aug 31 19:23:33 tunys: that's what you think.. Aug 31 19:23:40 sylar91: a mockup Aug 31 19:23:45 hehe tunys: only 1?? I've done faster on my chair :) (but it has wheels, maybe the FR can detect that) Aug 31 19:24:05 ahh boo. Zorkman, you're quite right, illume-config-illume does SFA. Think it's just a place holder for future working versions? Aug 31 19:24:10 and the keyboard is aviable? Aug 31 19:24:17 Zorkman: if you implement that keyboard as e17 module you could make it fully themable Aug 31 19:24:21 sylar91: just a picture someone made because he wanted to visualise the idea he had Aug 31 19:24:44 edistar: believe me, if i thought I could pull it off, I was already on it Aug 31 19:24:53 haven't really looked into e or illume :( Aug 31 19:25:12 Now i'm using the big modded matchbox keyboard Aug 31 19:25:41 Zorkman: you = someone Aug 31 19:25:50 that would be very cool Aug 31 19:25:53 just mean the idea Aug 31 19:26:01 I'll google a bit for e17 modules Aug 31 19:26:02 it would solve a lot of keyboard-trouble Aug 31 19:26:13 but it'll be much to advanced I suppose Aug 31 19:26:29 [joking]it might be raster-keyboard killer[/joking] Aug 31 19:26:42 keyboard would accept dbus signals like pop-up, pop-down, layout theme etc Aug 31 19:27:06 Zorkman: on my nokia I only use the fullscreen keyboard, it's just so much more comfortable Aug 31 19:27:19 edistar: but can you see what you type? Aug 31 19:27:43 yeah, at the top Aug 31 19:29:02 that would also be quite usable... A very big solid keyboard and two lines of small-font text Aug 31 19:29:39 yeah Aug 31 19:29:46 but transparent is much cooler Aug 31 19:30:03 true, if our FR can handle it :) Aug 31 19:30:39 you have a nokia800 edistar? Aug 31 19:30:44 no, a n770 Aug 31 19:30:51 tunys: I do better, I'm sitting perfectly still in front of my freeRunner, but he's saying that i'm going 9.2km/h and i'm almost 1 km northwest from where I'm actually Aug 31 19:31:01 bricode: did you have a u-boot question? Aug 31 19:31:50 dolf1074: don't forget to look at your altitude Aug 31 19:32:01 mmontour: He's gone, unfortunately Aug 31 19:32:15 oh Aug 31 19:32:17 the altitude of my chair varies with more than 400m everytime I start gps :) Aug 31 19:32:31 * Zorkman is gonna check if there is a bug report on that one Aug 31 19:33:22 to late, i'm trying again Aug 31 19:34:10 arg, is there any way to get the extra illume config options on the 2008.8-update build? Aug 31 19:34:57 ehi where are stored links of 2008.8 home menu? Aug 31 19:35:43 sylar91: /usr/share/applications/ every *.desktop file is an icon the home menu Aug 31 19:35:58 ok thanks Aug 31 19:36:14 I can't install pidgin... Aug 31 19:36:26 sylar91: the "categories" tag only accepts certain values, so if you set them wrong, the icon will not be displayed Aug 31 19:36:31 Zorkman: bugreport for altitude? Aug 31 19:36:43 there was none, i'm writing one now Aug 31 19:36:50 it's not a bug Aug 31 19:36:53 no? Aug 31 19:36:54 root@om-gta02:~# opkg install pidgin Aug 31 19:36:55 Installing pidgin (2.2.1-r0) to root... Aug 31 19:36:55 Downloading http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/feeds/2008/ipk/glibc/armv4t/base/pidgin_2.2.1-r0_armv4t.ipk Aug 31 19:36:55 Collected errors: Aug 31 19:36:55 * Package pidgin md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. Aug 31 19:37:01 if you have <4 sats you can't get a reliable alt Aug 31 19:37:34 edistar: but even with 11 sats I was sometimes @ 23m and sometimes @ 400+ m Aug 31 19:37:45 it's always <30 or >400 it seems Aug 31 19:38:02 anyway, maybe I am wrong and this indeed only happens when I have not enough sattelites Aug 31 19:38:13 ehi why pidgin doesn't install' Aug 31 19:38:14 ? Aug 31 19:38:18 I will keep it in mind and re-check it before submitting the bug Aug 31 19:38:21 Zorkman: oh, ok Aug 31 19:38:23 sylar91: no idea Aug 31 19:38:30 sylar91: try to get it from celtune Aug 31 19:38:36 Zorkman: alt works here with enough sats Aug 31 19:38:38 what is celltune? Aug 31 19:38:41 sylar91: not that I could help you, but an error message would be quite helpful I guess ;) Aug 31 19:39:01 * Package pidgin md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update' Aug 31 19:39:05 sylar91: it's another feed http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ it's on the wiki under "repositories" Aug 31 19:40:55 i only have 6 sats, so I'm know it's not that acurate Aug 31 19:41:29 but my altitude isn't jumping, hoeray Aug 31 19:41:46 6 is ok Aug 31 19:41:54 dolf1074: mine also doesn't "jump", but when i reboot FR and start gps, then there is a chanse I'm 400m lower or higher :) Aug 31 19:43:44 Zorkman: what does the accuracy say in that moment? 800m? Aug 31 19:43:45 yeah, youre home just felt into a big put Aug 31 19:44:22 how would the keyboard work when typing on top of a browser? can you distinguish between hyperlink clicks and cursor keys? Aug 31 19:44:28 emdete: my HDOP is mostly <3 Aug 31 19:44:46 ap02: click and hold for clicking in the browser Aug 31 19:44:55 ap02: or popping down the keyboard Aug 31 19:45:05 Zorkman: should be around 1 and 1.5 Aug 31 19:45:23 haha dolf1074; because you said "put" i knew you spoke dutch, seems you're also belgian :) Aug 31 19:45:31 yep Aug 31 19:45:37 edistar: it is when I'm outside and have 8+ sats Aug 31 19:45:56 dolf1074: maybe you're the one digging that "put" then! :) Aug 31 19:46:55 damn, you caught me Aug 31 19:47:10 Where do I have to digg that hole? Aug 31 19:47:38 chack tangogps, friend-option, i'm probably still on it :) Aug 31 19:47:43 *check Aug 31 19:48:05 I live near Aalst, but I'm moving with my gf in a new appartment soon in Ghent Aug 31 19:48:39 dolf1074: you live in West-Flanders Aug 31 19:49:07 why do you think? Aug 31 19:49:33 you're ip seems to come from Bruge Aug 31 19:49:41 I see someone in Aalst :p Aug 31 19:49:51 :) that's me :) Aug 31 19:49:55 okay, you're going the nerdy way :p Aug 31 19:50:01 click on it and you should see my nick Aug 31 19:50:23 Zorkman, hmmm, that's sound similar Aug 31 19:50:32 I have beer from brugge Aug 31 19:50:34 dolf1074: you're checking tangogps- friends on a small protable opensource phone, that is a lot less nerd ;-) Aug 31 19:50:54 hmmm, so? Aug 31 19:51:14 Can i help my phone can do that Aug 31 19:51:14 edistar: brugse tripel? Aug 31 19:51:23 is this already available ?? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Today Aug 31 19:51:43 lloyd_fedora: this is something from the stone-age.. Aug 31 19:51:50 that was the first software, that is never is released Aug 31 19:51:51 Zorkman: yeah Aug 31 19:52:15 lloyd_fedora: that's 2007.1, really old stuff Aug 31 19:52:16 because it wasn't that finger and stylus friendly and it was a little hard to discover how it worked Aug 31 19:52:25 it was rubbish :) Aug 31 19:53:15 those mochups look really good anyways Aug 31 19:53:26 mochkups* Aug 31 19:53:31 mockups* Aug 31 19:53:45 first time ive come accross that page Aug 31 19:58:13 is there an alternative to the matchbox keyboard ?? Aug 31 19:58:45 there is Aug 31 19:58:52 i added it to the wiki yesterday Aug 31 19:59:24 Zorkman: did u make it ? Aug 31 19:59:31 nope Aug 31 19:59:33 small question: does the freerunner has to be out of suspend before it charge itself? Aug 31 20:00:20 lloyd_fedora: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards_on_Om_2007.2#Modified_Matchbox_Keyboard:_finger_friendly Aug 31 20:00:48 it's the best i've found so far for 2007.2 Aug 31 20:01:01 Zorkman: thanks .. this looks slick Aug 31 20:01:18 anybody knows another phone software for debian than zhone does anybody use fluxbox here with openmok ? Aug 31 20:01:26 dolf1074: It will trickle-charge some small amount while suspended, and it will fast-charge if it was fast-charging when it entered suspend -- but there will be no indication of this. Aug 31 20:02:23 So just put it onto charger just before it goes into suspend, will keep it charching? Aug 31 20:02:36 Usually Aug 31 20:02:39 Zorkman: will you try and get that keyboard programmed? by someone? Aug 31 20:02:44 And will it then stop when the battery is full? Aug 31 20:02:58 dolf1074: yes, it'll stop Aug 31 20:02:59 Yes, it will *always* stop when full Aug 31 20:03:13 i though it, but you never now Aug 31 20:03:30 normally supend should also always wakeup when you need it Aug 31 20:03:52 hehe! Aug 31 20:05:47 edistar: I'm trying to raise some support for it on the ML, maybe you could also reply that you like the idea Aug 31 20:05:52 is there some diffrences between installing keyboards in Om2007 and Om2008? Aug 31 20:06:04 ehi it is possible to have msn on pidgin? Aug 31 20:06:13 sylar91: yes, it works Aug 31 20:06:14 because there isn't in pidgin I installed Aug 31 20:06:19 Zorkman: okey, I'll try to remember Aug 31 20:06:23 no there are only xmpp/gtalk/irc Aug 31 20:06:45 problem is that devs usually invest most of their time in their own ideas Aug 31 20:08:03 ehi zorkamn...how can I add msn to pidgin? by default it has only xmpp/gtalk and irc Aug 31 20:08:07 edistar: i know, it will most likely not be done by the devs; it will need the skills of the community Aug 31 20:08:26 Zorkman: yeah, I also mean community devs Aug 31 20:09:22 sylar91: it is also in the celtune repository, search for "msn" it's a libpurple protocol or something like that (if i remmeber correctly) Aug 31 20:10:13 sylar91: libpurple-protocol-msn Aug 31 20:10:41 (it's also in the angstrom feeds i think) Aug 31 20:10:42 thx a lot Aug 31 20:10:42 XD Aug 31 20:14:55 johngay: Did the same thing wrt. Pay as you go SIM Aug 31 20:15:10 johngay: Does yours work? Aug 31 20:23:57 Zorkman: this compressed keyboard is real nice .. r u using it ? Aug 31 20:24:46 lloyd_fedora: I use it on 2007.2 yes Aug 31 20:25:28 I can use it withouth stylus and it has everything i need Aug 31 20:25:49 only the transparant keybaoard will be able to defeat it :D Aug 31 20:25:58 :D Aug 31 20:26:11 belgisch produkt ;) Aug 31 20:26:17 lol Aug 31 20:26:18 Zorkman: cool .. yeah i really like it Aug 31 20:26:25 what transparent keyboard ? Aug 31 20:26:32 http://wendt.se/software/openmoko/screens/keyboard-layer.png Aug 31 20:27:38 not bad good alternative for predictive kayboard ;] Aug 31 20:27:48 "compressed keyboard"? Aug 31 20:28:16 soltys: not bad? it will blow you out of your shoes! ;-) Aug 31 20:28:26 Zorkman: is that for 2008 ? Aug 31 20:28:37 lloyd_fedora: somebody has to program it first :( Aug 31 20:28:49 Wonka: he means http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards_on_Om_2007.2#Modified_Matchbox_Keyboard:_finger_friendly Aug 31 20:29:13 I'm feeling like a marketing bureau :) Aug 31 20:29:47 lol Aug 31 20:30:13 i've got the feeling openmoko is losing a little bit of momentum lately :( Aug 31 20:30:35 i hope it's just a feeling... Aug 31 20:30:47 Zorkman:i hope so too Aug 31 20:31:11 i'm putting my money on FSO to make it easier for everyone to get involved and make the phone more stable Aug 31 20:31:40 Zorkman: ah, looks very nice Aug 31 20:31:41 yeah Aug 31 20:31:51 Zorkman: but fso is not fun with C or C++ Aug 31 20:31:55 dbus Aug 31 20:33:02 edistar, there is libframeworkd-glib (but i've never used it) Aug 31 20:33:36 Wiedi: that's by a SHR guy, right? Aug 31 20:33:46 yep Aug 31 20:34:04 I heard about that, really good work Aug 31 20:38:28 I still have problems with bluetooth keyboard. Actually, what i'm wondering now, is that some information on the wiki are not correct. Aug 31 20:41:36 Zorkman: sent the mail to ml yet? Aug 31 20:42:18 The mail was already sent, by the guy who made the mockup http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/028831.html Aug 31 20:44:40 Zorkman: I'd start a new thread.. Aug 31 20:44:50 w00t Aug 31 20:45:09 i just bought a bran new 08 Nissan 350z touring today =D Aug 31 20:45:14 308hp to the rear wheels Aug 31 20:45:44 b0ib0t1: but has it a usable keyboard and reliable suspend/resume? Aug 31 20:45:57 i have no idea, but it does have bluetooth Aug 31 20:46:00 ;] Aug 31 20:46:19 openmokos still arent here =/ thursday is the day for that Aug 31 20:46:28 i just wanted a new car to go along with the new phones Aug 31 20:46:42 you know how it goes Aug 31 20:47:08 b0ib0t I hope your new car gives you less hassle than your new phone will :) Aug 31 20:48:09 :) Aug 31 20:48:38 hey phrozen77 did you get your pin dialog issues sorted? Aug 31 20:48:46 lmao Aug 31 20:48:50 ty tig Aug 31 20:49:04 b0ib0t :) Aug 31 20:49:15 Tig|, sort of, i found a page on the wiki that had infos about a prog that was supposed to do it but didnt.. in the end i just rebooted it Aug 31 20:49:35 did you see the bug report link I posted? Aug 31 20:49:39 hi bumbl Aug 31 20:49:49 yes Aug 31 20:49:59 hi Aug 31 20:50:00 no use then :( Aug 31 20:51:49 hi Aug 31 20:51:57 b0ib0t: you talk in plural, how many Fr did you order? Aug 31 20:52:06 how do i convert tar.gz rootfs to a jffs2 rootfs? Aug 31 20:52:20 sledgeas: why would you? Aug 31 20:52:26 i downloaded tar.gz Aug 31 20:52:30 got no time to townload jffs2 Aug 31 20:52:39 sledgeas: unpack it, and mkfs.jffs2 dir/ Aug 31 20:52:49 but if I were you, I would re-download Aug 31 20:53:06 hmmm Aug 31 20:53:07 (even better to download jffs2.summary) Aug 31 20:53:12 pity Aug 31 20:53:25 should i still give it a try? Aug 31 20:53:36 night guys, i'm going to sleep Aug 31 20:53:41 night Aug 31 20:53:44 sledgeas: no, won't work Aug 31 20:53:58 darn :):) Aug 31 20:54:05 you could make a jffs2 partition, mounted as a file Aug 31 20:54:11 and extract the data there Aug 31 20:54:18 then flash that file Aug 31 20:54:26 but that's quite a lot of trouble Aug 31 20:56:53 I am trying to install debian to fr Aug 31 20:56:58 I: Can't find keyring debian-archive-keyring.gpg Aug 31 21:20:05 where can i find out my sw version? Aug 31 21:30:06 So whats the best repository to point to for keeping 2007.2 up to date? Aug 31 21:33:32 I'm currently fetching from buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/ but many things seem to be broken there )-= Aug 31 21:49:08 hello Aug 31 21:49:28 hi Aug 31 21:49:55 hi Aug 31 21:50:13 how's the weather in belgium? Aug 31 21:50:16 i have received my jolly openmoko yesterday. yay Aug 31 21:50:20 Im getting the following error when running mofi on 2007.2: ImportError: No module named cairo Aug 31 21:50:21 cool Aug 31 21:50:28 dolf1074: install it then Aug 31 21:50:31 hot :( Aug 31 21:50:33 which packet I miss? Aug 31 21:50:40 dolf1074: opkg list | grep cairo Aug 31 21:50:45 smart Aug 31 21:50:54 dolf1074: libcairo I guess Aug 31 21:51:14 I will go for python-pycairo Aug 31 21:51:23 should be right, yes Aug 31 21:51:24 buy after flashing (in order: kernel, rootfs, u-boot -- everything from http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/) and power on, i get this: Wrong image format for bootm command//ERROR: can't get kernel image! help :) Aug 31 21:51:53 sledgeas: reflash kernel :) Aug 31 21:52:06 did that.. Aug 31 21:52:09 Did you rename the kernel to uImage.bin? Aug 31 21:52:13 no Aug 31 21:52:20 no difference aye? Aug 31 21:52:34 :) (bump :D) Aug 31 21:52:40 sledgeas: you booting from SD or from internal flash? Aug 31 21:52:49 i think sd Aug 31 21:53:03 then you didn't flash but copy to sd Aug 31 21:53:15 internal Aug 31 21:53:30 i overwrite the old Om2007 Aug 31 21:53:31 in that case you don't need to rename kernel Aug 31 21:53:31 ok, flash Aug 31 21:53:35 ok Aug 31 21:53:36 i did Aug 31 21:53:36 did you follow the method on the wiki sledgeas? Aug 31 21:53:38 :):) Aug 31 21:53:40 yes Aug 31 21:53:42 sorry, my fault Aug 31 21:54:04 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_Openmoko Aug 31 21:54:59 sledgeas: you sure you used the gta02 u-boot? Aug 31 21:55:32 guys did i have to replug usb after every flashing?(ie after Resetting usb switch back to runtime mode) ? Aug 31 21:55:41 sledgeas: no Aug 31 21:55:42 Zorkman: sure as a devil himself :) Aug 31 21:55:42 no Aug 31 21:55:49 :) Aug 31 21:55:59 edistar: dolf1074: ok , i didnt :p :) Aug 31 21:56:10 sledgeas: doesn't matter if you did, it's just not needed Aug 31 21:56:16 yup Aug 31 21:56:23 in case it was needed.. :):) Aug 31 21:56:50 you could try flashing this kernel : http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing-om-gta02-20080831.uImage.bin Aug 31 21:57:05 on my way, Zorkman Aug 31 21:57:07 sledgeas: can you tell us the exact error? Aug 31 21:57:34 did you flash to the right dfu device? ;) Aug 31 21:57:55 lol @ edistar Aug 31 21:58:05 :) Aug 31 21:58:16 zo veel lol heb je dan niet meer, als het je adsl modem was Aug 31 21:58:30 da zeker nie Aug 31 21:58:34 yea well, i did not ask dfu -l though it was only open moko and mouse connected Aug 31 21:58:43 okey, won't have gone wrong Aug 31 21:58:50 i dont know, seems to me that my mouse started responding to the stylus though :D Aug 31 21:58:58 :P Aug 31 21:59:02 ermm Aug 31 21:59:08 it's jealous ;) Aug 31 21:59:13 oh sure it is Aug 31 21:59:21 it wont be touched that much more in the fututre :) Aug 31 21:59:37 though now if i want to see that error, i have to boot into the AUX+POWER menu (NOR) Aug 31 21:59:52 if i simply press power, openmoko logo shows, and stays forever until i replug the bateries Aug 31 21:59:52 hm? NAND does not work anymore? Aug 31 21:59:59 press power + AUX Aug 31 22:00:11 then you get the NAND boot menu Aug 31 22:00:11 NAND was working right once after i flashed it Aug 31 22:00:16 ok i try Aug 31 22:00:35 kdean, the review-master! Aug 31 22:00:35 sledgeas: sounds like an error loading the kernel. If you see the splashscreen then u-boot itself is OK Aug 31 22:00:46 k Aug 31 22:00:54 trying power->aux method Aug 31 22:01:52 with NOR and NAND (kernel 20080826) the error is: 2097152 bytes read:OK Wrong image format for bootm command ERROR: can't get kernel image! Aug 31 22:02:20 * sledgeas trying reflashing with 20080831 kernel... Aug 31 22:02:40 you did flash the kernel to the kernel and the rootfs to the rootfs and not vice versa? Aug 31 22:02:47 haha Aug 31 22:02:52 :) not vice versa Aug 31 22:04:27 should i have flashed u-boot first and then booting fron that new NAND to flash everything else? Aug 31 22:04:38 btw. I have now install libcairo2 and python-pycairo and I keep getting the 'no module named cairo' error and there are no packages left to try in the opkg list | grep cairo Aug 31 22:04:43 somebody has ideas? Aug 31 22:05:17 sledgeas: try to flash a new uboot Aug 31 22:05:19 dolf1074: somebody should shoot that stupid cairo, together with that __init__ stuff Aug 31 22:05:20 sledgeas: what you flash first, doesn't matter Aug 31 22:05:35 Zorkman: lol Aug 31 22:05:38 edistar: i have flashed the newest uboot from the very beginning Aug 31 22:05:45 (NAND is now Aug 26, 2008) Aug 31 22:05:56 oh Aug 31 22:06:08 Zorkman: that __init__ stuff was easy, just some typo of a fool that don't try the package, if he changes a package Aug 31 22:06:25 hmmm Aug 31 22:06:43 now after Resetting to runtime mode NAND just stays there not powering off Aug 31 22:06:49 sledgeas: try to flash a known good kernel Aug 31 22:06:50 Zorkman: But shooting at my FreeRunner will not help ;) Aug 31 22:06:51 i'll have to tuse the battery method again :) Aug 31 22:07:04 sledgeas: which boot menus do you have? Aug 31 22:07:08 i just flashed yesterdays's kenrnel, stand by for updates :) Aug 31 22:07:10 NAND now Aug 31 22:07:20 dolf1074: i know it is easy, but i'm tired of always fixing it after reflashing :) Aug 31 22:07:30 which entriess? Aug 31 22:07:32 -s Aug 31 22:07:37 ok guys it works Aug 31 22:07:38 ! Aug 31 22:07:42 nice Aug 31 22:07:49 congratz Aug 31 22:07:52 so, you should indicate, that this combination is no-good:http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/ Aug 31 22:08:11 new rootfs and a 5-day-older kernel Aug 31 22:08:13 I guess the kernel is broken or something Aug 31 22:08:20 yup, that out there Aug 31 22:08:26 sledgeas: I think just made a mistake or something went wrong, because i also flashed those images a few days ago and they worked Aug 31 22:08:28 lovely booting boots lol Aug 31 22:08:35 I did use them 2 days ago and them they worked, so the build machine is broken or something like that Aug 31 22:08:38 hmmm Aug 31 22:08:48 i relfashed that Aug 26th kernelr two times Aug 31 22:08:52 sledgeas: ah, but they updated the u-boot and kernel on that page Aug 31 22:08:55 and now it was just enough to up that testing kernel Aug 31 22:09:17 well, on that page both kernel and uboot are of Aug 26th Aug 31 22:09:19 (versions) Aug 31 22:09:25 only rootfs is completely brand new Aug 31 22:09:29 sledgeas: nand flash blocks sometimes go wrong Aug 31 22:09:32 (dam ASU is quite slow you know :)) Aug 31 22:09:36 ow Aug 31 22:09:40 yeah, that because there was an update on the 29 Aug 31 22:09:53 so you have to rewrite several times so that they get reversed Aug 31 22:10:05 riiite Aug 31 22:10:06 %) Aug 31 22:10:17 ? Aug 31 22:11:01 found my problem: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td729990 Aug 31 22:11:24 edistar: i mean, ok, i got that ;) Aug 31 22:11:49 does it mean that when i scp something to my moko, i'd have to overwrite it several times? :) Aug 31 22:12:10 no Aug 31 22:12:38 very rare, the fs should evade bad blocks by itself Aug 31 22:12:46 k Aug 31 22:12:51 the FR is a bad block by itself :) Aug 31 22:12:56 lol Aug 31 22:13:08 guys, what does it mean when AUX's red led is flashing? i have just pressed on Locations on the Om2008.8 and the screen shut off Aug 31 22:13:18 after pressing power the red led started to blinking and that's it Aug 31 22:13:25 kernel panic! Aug 31 22:13:32 lol Aug 31 22:13:36 yes Aug 31 22:13:50 problem with the flashing of your rootfs Aug 31 22:13:56 ok,... Aug 31 22:13:58 ahh Aug 31 22:14:09 well, i'll just have to reflash it Aug 31 22:14:18 hmm i hope i did not get a defected NAND... Aug 31 22:14:19 sounds like you have to ask emdete how he fixed his bad blocks Aug 31 22:14:36 sledgeas: NAND always deteriorates Aug 31 22:14:40 emdete: ping Aug 31 22:14:57 edistar: so I'd just have to go the SD-card way then? Aug 31 22:15:02 no Aug 31 22:15:09 you should be able to fix it Aug 31 22:15:17 don't worry yet Aug 31 22:15:35 t:) lol ok, i hope its not like HDD's bad sectors 8) Aug 31 22:15:43 it is :P Aug 31 22:15:49 :):) Aug 31 22:15:57 but the fs ignores those blocks Aug 31 22:16:03 like with the old fdds Aug 31 22:16:03 yea, in the sense of irreversibility (irrepairibility) Aug 31 22:16:22 oh, yeah Aug 31 22:16:25 yea, but if i have some like 50% of bads Aug 31 22:16:40 don't think so, then it wouldn't even boot Aug 31 22:16:42 soudns like, kernel messed up, root fs messing Aug 31 22:16:51 ok, let's give it a 20% :) Aug 31 22:16:55 heh Aug 31 22:17:04 well.. 80% is still quite a lot Aug 31 22:17:22 (saaaaaay, the ASU now (the 2nd time ever) booted like 5 times faster!) Aug 31 22:17:27 :) Aug 31 22:17:29 not bad Aug 31 22:17:46 prolly it was initiating some /root homedir .. Aug 31 22:17:50 for the first time Aug 31 22:18:13 or /users Aug 31 22:18:19 g Aug 31 22:18:20 how fast is "five times faster"? Aug 31 22:18:29 approx Aug 31 22:18:32 the same Aug 31 22:18:38 it is a known fact that second boot is faster, but five times is an overstatement :) Aug 31 22:18:54 the booting window just went through, that's compared to the first-ever boot which took minutes Aug 31 22:19:08 wow, much faster than on mine Aug 31 22:19:21 why did i get kicked out Aug 31 22:19:34 kicked out? Aug 31 22:19:43 yea Aug 31 22:20:00 who has the power to do that Aug 31 22:20:11 who kicked you out when? Aug 31 22:20:26 bateau Aug 31 22:20:42 where? Aug 31 22:20:44 here? Aug 31 22:20:57 and i can see me in private chat Aug 31 22:21:13 he hacked in to my computer i think Aug 31 22:21:19 ok guys, i will contact emdete later on Aug 31 22:21:24 I think Dave did it Anon700 Aug 31 22:21:28 btw, locations worked ok this time Aug 31 22:21:45 (just gave up with 'couldnt get the fix' after a minute of trying :)) Aug 31 22:21:47 not here Aug 31 22:21:59 on the other chat Aug 31 22:22:05 sledgeas: try it with openmoko-agpsui for the first time, give more info Aug 31 22:22:15 ive been trying to get in for 10 mins Aug 31 22:22:20 Anon700: where? other chat isn't that helpful Aug 31 22:22:35 ok, i will, goodnight everybody, thanks huge! i love moko :) Aug 31 22:22:37 So whats the best repository to point to for keeping 2007.2 up to date? Aug 31 22:22:41 how about: he hacked into your openmoko :) , Anon700 Aug 31 22:22:42 night sledgeas Aug 31 22:22:44 sledgeas: good night! Aug 31 22:22:44 ok on the menu of chat the middle page Aug 31 22:22:55 not the java one Aug 31 22:23:49 sledgeas: try it with openmoko-agpsui for the first time, give more info about what page you mean Aug 31 22:24:04 when will openmoko-agpsui be OSS? Aug 31 22:24:11 we have no idea what you are talking about Anon700 :) it seems you connec to IRC through a webbrowser Aug 31 22:25:20 click on chat Aug 31 22:25:31 Anon700: where do you klick? Aug 31 22:25:35 u have 3 options Aug 31 22:25:41 Anon700: give is the url of the webpage Aug 31 22:25:42 123 Aug 31 22:25:49 ^^ Aug 31 22:25:53 we don't use a browser to connect to IRC Aug 31 22:25:59 Anyone good with 2007.2? Aug 31 22:26:09 okey, now we know Aug 31 22:26:50 "wrongplanet forever" :) Aug 31 22:26:51 lol Aug 31 22:27:08 strange people here Aug 31 22:27:29 FR makes you go funny in the head Aug 31 22:27:45 :) Aug 31 22:27:51 No, you gotta be funny in the head to buy a FreeRunner. Aug 31 22:28:08 gotta be a little bit belgian :P Aug 31 22:28:32 Hey! We'll have none of that language here! Aug 31 22:28:39 :D Aug 31 22:28:57 Zorky knows it's just an insider ;) Aug 31 22:29:30 indeed, if one can't laugh with Belgiums, where would the world go to? Aug 31 22:29:47 they'd start with dutch people Aug 31 22:30:03 neih, too easy ;-) Aug 31 22:30:21 don't laugh with belgiums Aug 31 22:30:32 not with, about ;) Aug 31 22:30:50 if it isn't me, than i'm okay Aug 31 22:31:11 was just a joke, I know many belgians who are much better than dutch people ;) Aug 31 22:31:21 Don't know if I want to associate with such loose-tongued people who would use such a vulgar word with such reckless abandon. Aug 31 22:31:28 meh anytime I look at this channel Zorkman or Dave is alive... or both :/ Aug 31 22:31:45 Mononoke: better than dead Aug 31 22:32:00 johngay: heh, you needn't associate Aug 31 22:32:28 Then were will I go for all my problems? Gag Halfront is too busy. Aug 31 22:33:20 Mononoke: are we working on your nerves? Aug 31 22:34:02 Zorkman: wat? Aug 31 22:34:15 if I/Dave annoy you Aug 31 22:34:37 no, not at all Aug 31 22:34:44 ah, ok Aug 31 22:34:56 he's just asking if you also have a normal life Aug 31 22:35:10 at this moment i'm still studying for my lawt exam Aug 31 22:35:14 and have to work on a project Aug 31 22:35:22 same problems Aug 31 22:35:29 so I'm constantly near computer and this is more interesting :) Aug 31 22:36:38 anyway, i'm gonna hit the sack, goodnight all Aug 31 22:36:48 Nite, Zork Aug 31 22:37:08 Guess I'll ask about 2007.2 later? Aug 31 22:37:10 normal life? yeah, irc, emacs, what more is there? Aug 31 22:37:24 nothing Aug 31 22:37:29 emacs /o\ get away with strange operating systems Aug 31 22:37:33 oh, there is plenty more Aug 31 22:37:38 Zorkman: gn8 Aug 31 22:37:52 and it is all defined as one word: FreeRunner Aug 31 22:39:00 what's your problem with 2007.2? Aug 31 22:42:39 what do you guys use to translate languages in firefox? Aug 31 22:42:49 * niklauz doesn't speak german Aug 31 22:43:01 translate.google.com? Aug 31 22:43:23 aren't there any snazzy in-browser plugins? Aug 31 22:43:42 not that i know Aug 31 22:43:54 maybe the google toolbar (i'm just guessing) Aug 31 22:46:05 googlized society Aug 31 22:46:57 idk what you are talking about so i googled it Aug 31 22:47:17 google knows it all Aug 31 22:48:21 previously people disliked know-it-alls Aug 31 22:49:38 but google is really polite ;) Aug 31 22:49:43 the human race is evolved Aug 31 22:50:38 anyone wanna comment on the weirdness of intel's acquisition of OpenHanded? Aug 31 22:51:12 good deal Aug 31 22:51:18 for intel Aug 31 22:52:07 wtf ? Aug 31 22:54:35 CVirus: you hadn't heard? Aug 31 22:54:40 just now Aug 31 22:55:45 is openedhand related to OM in anyway ? Aug 31 22:55:50 yes Aug 31 22:56:02 OH designed the 2007.2 interface Aug 31 22:56:07 ya http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/31/0123234 Aug 31 22:56:50 niklauz: scary Aug 31 22:57:08 nyu: why? Aug 31 22:57:18 it's curious, I was thinking FR is similar in many ways to OLPC Aug 31 22:57:30 except MS & Intel didn't come in to jeopardize it Aug 31 22:57:56 don't they also act as a source repository for many applications targeted to handsets? Aug 31 22:58:07 I'm not impliing anything, but it sounds scary Aug 31 22:58:19 the article says that the OH developers will be tasked to work on moblin Aug 31 22:58:21 it's the usual case Aug 31 22:58:31 small good companies swallowed by big ones Aug 31 22:58:34 I guess time will tell :-) Aug 31 22:58:46 OH work is over for OM anyway Aug 31 22:59:17 2007.2 didn't turn out to be good in the end Aug 31 22:59:29 edistar: at one time they were supplying lots of the apps: matchbox, etc Aug 31 22:59:36 yes Aug 31 22:59:55 matchbox was coded by OH Aug 31 23:00:01 good piece of work btw Aug 31 23:00:22 iirc early OM work used OH as (more or less) a base distro, no? Aug 31 23:00:27 no Aug 31 23:00:29 that was OE Aug 31 23:00:36 aaahhhh! Aug 31 23:00:57 i thought i was mixing something up Aug 31 23:00:58 the word open does limit possibilities ;) Aug 31 23:01:58 i haven't enjoyed old E since i was old enough to drink ;) Aug 31 23:02:26 ;) Aug 31 23:03:00 Help! My battery is dead! what can i do Aug 31 23:03:15 Torikun: take out the battery, wait for 30 minutes Aug 31 23:03:19 then put it back in Aug 31 23:03:29 that's it? Aug 31 23:03:32 and then take the wall charger Aug 31 23:03:36 and switch it on Aug 31 23:03:47 ah ty I will try now Aug 31 23:03:52 I had that Aug 31 23:03:56 30 min might be overkill... Aug 31 23:03:59 I had to wait for about 2h though ;) Aug 31 23:04:07 but the good thing about overkill is IT WORKS Aug 31 23:04:19 lol Aug 31 23:04:34 it's possible intel will kill arm ports of the OH stuff Aug 31 23:05:16 while they were working on the ubuntu Mobile project they put 100% resources into intel side and didn't even support arm ports Aug 31 23:06:06 course Aug 31 23:06:15 what else do you think intel wants? Aug 31 23:06:43 considering the supposed objective of UME it's odd to completely ignore everything else but intel Aug 31 23:07:15 niklauz: intel doesn't do arm? Aug 31 23:07:20 only i386? Aug 31 23:07:31 nyu: yes, they have forced x86 for many years nwo Aug 31 23:07:33 now Aug 31 23:08:01 they seem to love carriing legacy bags a lot Aug 31 23:08:01 even though it might not be the best technological solution Aug 31 23:08:04 edistar: just expressing my opinion that it will probably mean a net-loss for the arm-based community Aug 31 23:08:09 niklauz: yes Aug 31 23:08:13 even when they designed efi, they put legacy stuff here and there Aug 31 23:08:22 nyu: legacy is not much work, maybe 5% of the total work Aug 31 23:08:46 edistar: it eats physical space, power, and boot time Aug 31 23:08:57 maybe, yes Aug 31 23:09:04 but not much Aug 31 23:09:09 edistar: and most importantly processing time due to lack of registers Aug 31 23:09:12 it's just a shame, OH was non-partisan, in a sense, but now that is changed Aug 31 23:09:17 although amd64 sort of solves that Aug 31 23:09:47 edistar: maybe it's not much, but we're carriing it since the early 80s Aug 31 23:09:54 yeah Aug 31 23:09:54 and for no reason at all (sigh) Aug 31 23:10:11 OE is still good Aug 31 23:10:15 and if all fails there is debian Aug 31 23:11:08 Does the Atom processor still have all that ancient 8086 era segmentation register junk supported in hardware? Aug 31 23:11:22 KenYoung: does it support booting from BIOS? Aug 31 23:11:48 of course Aug 31 23:11:48 isn't debian *already* a better option than OE Aug 31 23:11:53 niklauz: no Aug 31 23:12:01 then it does Aug 31 23:12:02 OE can build optimized distros Aug 31 23:12:25 not that EFI is an improvement to that, just the same idiotic scheme with a newer instruction set Aug 31 23:12:31 lol Aug 31 23:12:42 20 years from now we'll be whinning about the "ancient i386 era junk" Aug 31 23:12:43 really looking forward to the future.. Aug 31 23:12:53 and about FAT & PE Aug 31 23:13:00 heh Aug 31 23:13:01 edistar: could you explain a bit more why OE is better for OM/FR than debian, i've been wondering about this... Aug 31 23:13:26 firstly the whole point is cross compiling Aug 31 23:13:37 making images and packages that just work (tm) on devices Aug 31 23:13:47 debian is rubbish at cross-compiling Aug 31 23:13:55 hard to set up, hard to maintain Aug 31 23:14:01 bitbake is just perfect Aug 31 23:14:02 wha!??! haha Aug 31 23:14:13 i've not heard that about debian before Aug 31 23:14:20 really not? Aug 31 23:14:24 debian is simply not concerned with cross-compiling Aug 31 23:14:37 when I want to cross-compile something, I do it by hand Aug 31 23:14:48 nyu: you don't want to do that all the time Aug 31 23:14:48 but it's supported on so many different archs... including arm Aug 31 23:15:10 niklauz: that's something different.. the debian maintainers do that Aug 31 23:15:15 edistar: no, just occasionally Aug 31 23:15:31 edistar: i guess this is where my understanding fails Aug 31 23:15:31 I just don't understand why Intel thinks support for legacy x86 code will be a big plus in the mobile market. Very littler of that stuff can run on a hand-held device usefully without so UI re-work, and since you will have to recompile then, binary x86 compatibility isn't a big plus. Aug 31 23:15:58 KenYoung: it's just that they have knowledge and patents for x86 Aug 31 23:16:40 niklauz: debian tries to natively compile everything (tries, of course. some stuff has to be cross compiled) Aug 31 23:16:41 KenYoung: also they probably want the full toolchain advantages, to appeal to developers Aug 31 23:16:52 niklauz: so that's why OE is much better in the end.. I really like debian (mobile, laptop, workstation, server :]) but it just is slightly slow and cumbersome for a phone Aug 31 23:17:32 edistar: why is it slow? Aug 31 23:17:45 nyu: not optimized as much as OE Aug 31 23:17:58 kgoetz: isn't that normal? Aug 31 23:17:59 edistar: ah. well, you can recompile then Aug 31 23:18:12 nyu: course, but you don't want to recompile all the packages Aug 31 23:18:21 1200 packages or so? Aug 31 23:18:27 kgoetz: everything is natively compiled in the debian archive AFAIK Aug 31 23:18:41 edistar: 15000 or so Aug 31 23:18:44 nyu: even the arm stuff? I would hardly believe Aug 31 23:18:48 nyu: i thought one or two of the 'embeded' archs were still cross compiled Aug 31 23:18:50 nyu: hehe Aug 31 23:18:59 * kgoetz could easily be wrong Aug 31 23:18:59 edistar: for arm we use some thecus boxen Aug 31 23:19:16 nyu: are you a debian guy? Aug 31 23:19:21 kgoetz: cross-compile support may be there, but not used for official packages (except for boostrap) Aug 31 23:19:22 afaik lenny has ~12,000 source packages (excluding contrib+non-free) Aug 31 23:19:30 edistar: yes. although I don't work on the armel port Aug 31 23:19:35 edistar: i must say i still don't see a compelling advantage there, isn't cross/re-compiling an inevitable gateway to put most code of the device anyway regardless of OE or debian? Aug 31 23:19:48 nyu: ah, ok. that explains why it was such a horror to set up and use Aug 31 23:19:51 oh, so you obviously know everything much better :) Aug 31 23:20:06 edistar: http://unstable.buildd.net/index-armel.html (scroll down) Aug 31 23:20:12 niklauz: with OE you can update and patch much quicker Aug 31 23:20:20 and you get images Aug 31 23:20:45 kgoetz: sorry I don't follow Aug 31 23:21:09 :) Aug 31 23:21:09 edistar: doesn't that come down to source control and compilation utilities? Aug 31 23:21:20 niklauz: yes, of course Aug 31 23:21:25 nyu: i tried to setup the cross compile toolchain on debian. i'm not overly leet, so i ended up failing :) Aug 31 23:21:27 and that is just not set up for debian afaik Aug 31 23:21:47 edistar: so these tools are not available for debian? Aug 31 23:22:03 what i like about OE is being able to cross compile dependencies automatically just by specifying them in the bitbake recipe....i wouldnt want to do that by hand Aug 31 23:22:10 niklauz: well.. bitbake was specifically designed and programmed, so it must not have existed before Aug 31 23:22:36 i'm not arguing for it's own sake, i really am confused by this Aug 31 23:22:40 yeah Aug 31 23:22:50 can bitbake by used one debian though Aug 31 23:23:12 kgoetz: I never tried myself. only setup cross-toolchains purely by hand Aug 31 23:23:22 nyu: ah ok. Aug 31 23:23:27 and yes, I do find that much easier Aug 31 23:23:37 the thing thats striking to me is with a young ambitious project wouldn't you want to go with the most free, most mainline base avaialble? Aug 31 23:23:42 nooooooooooooors Aug 31 23:24:31 niklauz: ask mickey|zzZZzz, he'll be able to tell you exactly why OE exists Aug 31 23:24:56 edistar: :) aww... i don't really want to bug him for this Aug 31 23:25:00 as one of the founders ;) Aug 31 23:25:15 heh, he'll be glad to tell you Aug 31 23:25:17 hehe. Aug 31 23:25:30 will he be mad for me asking? Aug 31 23:25:30 * mwester suggests that things might be easier to understand when one notes that the freerunner is a device that is closer to desktop-class hardware than most things that OE builds for. Aug 31 23:25:39 niklauz: i'm quite interested to (i'll happily accept a wiki page that explains it too) Aug 31 23:25:59 will he yell at me in a language i don't understand? Aug 31 23:26:23 niklauz: maybe, try ;) Aug 31 23:26:27 lol Aug 31 23:26:33 * mwester doesn't think he's ever observed mickey|zzZZzz yell, even on IRC... :) Aug 31 23:26:53 sleep screaming? Aug 31 23:27:05 do the freerunners get hot? Aug 31 23:27:07 Om might cause that, 'tis true Aug 31 23:27:18 sohail: only if you load pron into them Aug 31 23:27:18 sohail: warm, not usually hot. Aug 31 23:27:59 mwester, warm when doing nothing? Aug 31 23:28:05 nyu I think I'm safe then Aug 31 23:28:18 slightly warm, yes. Aug 31 23:28:29 It's often doing something when it should be doing nothing, I'm afraid -- it's part of the power management problem that's not yet completely solved. Aug 31 23:28:33 Till someone finishes the CPU freq scaling work Aug 31 23:28:41 That's half the problem. Aug 31 23:28:56 mwester: you are an OE guy, right? Aug 31 23:29:06 The other half is that the CPU can use about 20% or so of the current use clocked right down - and it doesn't do that. Aug 31 23:29:06 Yes, I admit it. Aug 31 23:29:15 here is my point i'm wondering about-- isn't it more beneficial to customize a stable, well understood base with a fast and responsive community feedback loop, than reinvent a customized base in a much smaller, much less well understood niche community Aug 31 23:29:17 The other half is that it needs to suspend right. Aug 31 23:29:20 mwester: explain! :P Aug 31 23:29:32 Weapons of telecommunication Aug 31 23:29:43 so, when is the phone expected to be ready for consumers??? Aug 31 23:29:50 And the other half is to teach all the applications to talk to all the other halves to properly implement power saving. Aug 31 23:29:52 edistar: explain OE vs Debian? Aug 31 23:30:07 free software is all about the echoing reciprocal benefits, but that happens much faster with a common base Aug 31 23:30:11 sohail: I'd be very, very surprised if it was in consumer-ready shape in 6 months Aug 31 23:30:29 mwester: yeah, or ambition for OE Aug 31 23:30:30 niklauz: most of the software being built by OE is from the debian repos. Aug 31 23:30:57 SpeedEvil, I thought there is financial backing for this somewhere Aug 31 23:31:10 mwester: only if you have time of course Aug 31 23:31:23 OE is a software build environment; Debian is a distro. The two do not compete. In fact, it is possible, if someone were to modify the recipes correctly, to build Debian with OE. Aug 31 23:31:42 is oe simular to the gentoo way only a build host compiles the packages and not the own system? Aug 31 23:31:53 OE has its roots in portage. Aug 31 23:32:05 So it is very similar in concept to gentoo and such. Aug 31 23:32:16 So, Mister Wester, what have you built lately? :) Aug 31 23:32:21 Other than Qtopia, apparently. :p Aug 31 23:32:23 mwester: OE with debian seems ideal, no? Aug 31 23:32:49 And OE iis designed for cross compilation environments. Aug 31 23:33:04 OE vs Debian Aug 31 23:33:09 They are rivals. Aug 31 23:33:14 haha Aug 31 23:33:20 niklauz: For some of the OE devices, that might be true -- debian on the freerunner is practical because of the size of the freerunner. Aug 31 23:33:37 Debian is like, pfft, we don't need no steenkin OpenEmbedded. Aug 31 23:33:40 size as in computing power? Aug 31 23:33:50 size as in capacity Aug 31 23:33:59 Dave: I build SlugOS, Unslung, and all the Om builds on OE. I keep my buildhost busy... Aug 31 23:34:00 resources Aug 31 23:34:11 Mwester, good shit Aug 31 23:34:18 Mine auto rebuilds daily :) Aug 31 23:34:25 (the entire OM tree) Aug 31 23:34:30 Dave: mwester: i see, it's an exciting possibility Aug 31 23:34:44 Beware, it is slowly becoming reality! Aug 31 23:34:44 :o Aug 31 23:34:45 * kgoetz will have to look at OE properly now - damn the lot of you, i'm interested :P Aug 31 23:34:53 haw haw Aug 31 23:34:57 :) Aug 31 23:35:06 mwester: thanks for the insight Aug 31 23:35:08 niklauz: Debian has some issues right now; it does not fit small devices without consoles as well as it could -- OE addresses those, so even if we build a "debian-clone" in OE, there would still be advantages. Aug 31 23:35:30 Not to mention the licensing aspects; Debian will not take just anything closed-source and add it to the Debian repo. Aug 31 23:35:41 I think we may have some OM components that are closed-source. Aug 31 23:35:51 (do we upload firmware to the wifi?) Aug 31 23:36:02 up to now, yes Aug 31 23:36:21 what is the wifi? *cant remembber* Aug 31 23:36:30 atheros Aug 31 23:36:35 cool Aug 31 23:36:56 a starting image could be resynched to debian every six month, and then people could add debian repos and customize as they like Aug 31 23:37:01 sound familiar ;) Aug 31 23:37:04 That's been a problem for another device; the NSLU2 has a Debian port, but you can't just run a Debian/ARM kernel on the device (you have to get it elsewhere) because of the licensing restrictions on the Intel firmware for the NIC. Aug 31 23:37:10 niklauz: hehe Aug 31 23:38:11 mwester: when you were discussing a debain clone in OE, did you intend to say there would be *dis*advantages or advantages? Aug 31 23:38:12 mwester, afaik the wifi firmware is on the chip itself Aug 31 23:38:35 and not uploaded, which is why it got chosen Aug 31 23:38:53 OM could just provide a non-free repo Aug 31 23:38:54 niklauz: there would be advantages in what OE would be able to build compared to Debian. Aug 31 23:39:20 cb22: so that means the new OSS driver might not even work for the FR? Aug 31 23:39:21 mwester: o ok, any examples? Aug 31 23:39:39 cb22: I guess that's would avoid the licensing issues. But I hope we can update it later on (it seems it has some issues, at least according to the numerous bug reports that seem to keep coming up). Aug 31 23:40:06 edistar, different atheros variant Aug 31 23:40:15 edistar, new OSS driver? Aug 31 23:40:28 cb22, he's thinking of ar5k Aug 31 23:40:33 holy alsa states batman! Aug 31 23:40:34 yeah, thought so Aug 31 23:40:35 or a5k or was it Aug 31 23:40:46 mwester, indeed Aug 31 23:40:52 9k has a free driver now too Aug 31 23:41:37 it was announced that all atheros chips would get an OSS driver Aug 31 23:41:41 without binary blobs Aug 31 23:41:56 or did I get something wrong? Aug 31 23:42:09 edistar, well, there aren't any binary blobs for the current driver Aug 31 23:42:19 niklauz: nothing specific; I don't run Debian very often. One tiny example though is that the stock Debian startup will assume that it can pause if fsck is required on a filesystem -- not something you can do on a phone in early boot without a keyboard or a functioning touchpad yet. :D Aug 31 23:42:22 cb22: but there is a binary blob in the chip Aug 31 23:42:26 the firmware is stored on the chip Aug 31 23:43:06 yes Aug 31 23:43:19 if that isn't binary I don't know ;) Aug 31 23:43:32 niklauz: And yes, that's easily fixed -- but that's the sort of thing that will require much patching on all sorts of components, and I'm not sure that the upstream Debian folks will find such changes to be something they wish to apply to the desktop/server world that they focus upon. Aug 31 23:43:43 well, there is a binary firmware running on the GSM modem too Aug 31 23:43:49 lets try and get them to release that :p Aug 31 23:43:52 has anyone tryed to add a feed in openmoko-feedreader2? It doesn't works... Aug 31 23:44:05 edistar, it's binary. It just isn't a driver. Aug 31 23:44:09 okey Aug 31 23:44:09 bbiab - gotta run Aug 31 23:44:17 cb22, wifi, bluetooth... Aug 31 23:44:21 ...glamo Aug 31 23:44:24 mwester: thats a valid example but doesn't seem prohibitive Aug 31 23:44:28 there's no perfection with freerunner Aug 31 23:44:38 mwester: thanks for the explinations :D Aug 31 23:44:48 the glamo would be so much cooler if it was just a bunch of cores Aug 31 23:45:19 but then OM wouldn't have half the drivers ready yet :) Aug 31 23:50:58 In some cases, it would not get approval for the radio parts without a fixed image. You can't open-source those bits in some countries. Aug 31 23:51:21 For example, an open-source GSM modem would make the distributors liable for jailtime when it was abused. Aug 31 23:51:49 ShellEvil: are you trying to spoof SpeedEvil? :P Aug 31 23:52:40 speaking of SpeedEvil, i heard some guy was thought to be a terrorist for flying drones, instantly SpeedEvil came to mind :p Aug 31 23:54:19 morning Aug 31 23:54:44 good morning Aug 31 23:55:13 Is there a /sys/... entry controlling backlight brightness that exists with the same name on both the FR and the neo1973, or must code which wishes to control backlight brightness deal with different /sys entries on different OM phones? Aug 31 23:55:40 KenYoung: there is only one sys entry.. Aug 31 23:55:56 no compatibility on the kernel level necessarily Aug 31 23:56:12 edistar, It seems to have different names on different OM phones. Aug 31 23:56:28 yeah Aug 31 23:57:08 edistar, Zut! Is there an "official" way code is supposed to determine which model of OM phone it is running on? Aug 31 23:57:34 /proc/cpuinfo Aug 31 23:57:54 ShellEvil, Thanks! Aug 31 23:59:00 what about distribution? /etc/issue? Sep 01 00:09:35 alphabeat: since anyone can create any distribution, it would be best not to rely on /etc/issue for anything Sep 01 00:09:56 but yes, that's really the only place where you'll get a hint Sep 01 00:11:21 hmm ok thanks Sep 01 00:11:59 ShellEvil: so thay can use a ROM, and put free software in it Sep 01 00:12:06 it's no excuse Sep 01 00:12:18 nyu: and who's going to develop that free software? Sep 01 00:12:37 ShellEvil: it's already developed, just needs to be freed Sep 01 00:12:56 nyu: that's not always as simple as it sounds. Sep 01 00:13:10 ShellEvil: they want to retain their ability to modify the software you're running, but not give that ability to you. it sounds like a scam Sep 01 00:13:11 nyu: it's probably not been developed under a contract which'd allow it to happen. Sep 01 00:13:35 nyu: in some countries, giving that ability to users legitimately will attract jailtime. Sep 01 00:13:38 ShellEvil: so they should use proper contract terms Sep 01 00:13:45 ShellEvil: so use a ROM Sep 01 00:14:06 I fail to see how the user benefits from an opensource code running on ROM. Sep 01 00:14:40 ShellEvil: all freedoms apply except modification inside the ROM itself Sep 01 00:14:59 ShellEvil: you can reuse it for other hardware, study it, audit it, etc Sep 01 00:15:21 there's no need to blobify things and turn them into secrets Sep 01 00:15:36 there is if you want to keep it a secret ... Sep 01 00:16:02 I don't feel it's legitimate for them to keep it a secret what my hardware is doing Sep 01 00:16:18 nyu: then don't buy any hardware with hidden blobs. Sep 01 00:16:19 nyu: that's a valid opinion for you to hold Sep 01 00:16:20 but if you do, how would it hurt you to know? Sep 01 00:16:26 but it's not the only valid opinion Sep 01 00:16:37 rwhitby: right, except I'm denied it Sep 01 00:16:47 nyu: however - if you truly hold this opinion, then you should probably log off now. Sep 01 00:16:53 nyu: you have the choice to buy hardware from someone else that doesn't keep the secret from you. Sep 01 00:17:00 ShellEvil: why? Sep 01 00:17:04 or develop it from scratch yourself (the phone network that is) Sep 01 00:17:12 cnwdup: as your keyboard firmware is almost certain to be not-open, as is your BIOS, your modem firmware, ... Sep 01 00:17:16 nyu: Sep 01 00:17:26 rwhitby: sure, I exercise this choice whenever I can Sep 01 00:17:30 which is not always, sadly Sep 01 00:17:36 nyu: wherever it is convenient to you. Sep 01 00:18:05 ShellEvil: you're turning a discussion about violation of my rights into a discussion on convenience Sep 01 00:18:15 nyu: excellent. do you accept when others don't share the same opinion as you, or do you zealously state your opinion as absolute truths that everyone must uphold? Sep 01 00:18:25 if you don't feel you have those rights, you don't have a problem at all. I do, because I feel I have them Sep 01 00:18:54 nyu: I have the right to a large tub of chocolate ice-cream. _right_now_ Sep 01 00:19:03 * ShellEvil waits for tub of ice-cream to appear. Sep 01 00:19:37 * rwhitby gives ShellEvil a tub of ice cream, since it's his right. Sep 01 00:19:41 ShellEvil: this discussion is silly. you seem to put the status quo above opinion Sep 01 00:20:00 then we needlessly argue about what's an opinion, what's an absolute truth, etc Sep 01 00:20:08 nyu: no, a discussion which doesn't include pros and cons of blobs is silly. Sep 01 00:20:08 but the status quo is above all that Sep 01 00:20:29 Opinions are completely irrelevant unless you bring current fact into it. Sep 01 00:20:32 you might as well say that I have this right, but I won't get it Sep 01 00:20:37 There are reasons why binary blobs exist. Sep 01 00:20:48 They are not solely because bigcorp wants to screw you. Sep 01 00:20:59 a discussion with someone who can only see the pros of a certain position, but is not able to see and discuss the cons, is not useful, since it will go nowhere. Sep 01 00:21:06 does it matter? even if I could argue that they're wrong as an absolute truth, it'd be meaningless to you Sep 01 00:21:31 since you accept blob producers are above this discussion Sep 01 00:21:41 I think you've taken a leap there. Sep 01 00:21:55 one can discuss the pros and cons of blobs Sep 01 00:22:06 one can do so without taking a zealous position Sep 01 00:22:25 no, truly it's the same. you even compared it with your natural unability to get an icecream right not Sep 01 00:22:33 as if binary blobs were an act of god Sep 01 00:23:02 You started arguing that it was a right. Sep 01 00:23:08 ShellEvil can always get ice-cream, if he has the money to buy it, or the ability to make it himself, or if society has changed to the point where everyone gets free ice cream. Sep 01 00:23:08 it is my right Sep 01 00:23:29 nyu: there lies the problem with this discussion Sep 01 00:23:38 If it's your right, then only buy hardware without binary blobs. Sep 01 00:23:39 but you put "rights" of producers above it. producers don't have rights, only people do Sep 01 00:23:42 why is it your right? Sep 01 00:23:45 I note you're not doing this. Sep 01 00:24:04 how does one get a "right"? Sep 01 00:24:44 rwhitby: good question. I suppose one gets a right by self-determination Sep 01 00:24:45 rwhitby: have a large army/navy to enforce such. Sep 01 00:24:51 but then it needs to be claimed Sep 01 00:24:54 Are rights given to you by someone, are they "god-given" (what if you don't believe in god?). Are they given to you by your state of nationality (what if you change states?) Sep 01 00:25:16 nyu: is a "right" still a "right" if you're not getting it in practise? Sep 01 00:25:26 so I have this unclaimed right, which is what puts me in the process of full-filling it Sep 01 00:25:33 rwhitby: even more so Sep 01 00:25:40 if you've not powerful enough to claim it, is it still a "right"? who says that it is? Sep 01 00:25:42 rwhitby: because it means my karma is to fight for it Sep 01 00:26:15 nyu: so ShellEvil self-determined that he has a right to free ice-cream. Sep 01 00:26:27 why is that less valid than your claimed right to no blobs? Sep 01 00:26:37 rwhitby: no, it's plainly confusing Sep 01 00:26:48 nyu: why? Sep 01 00:26:48 The only right anyone has is to die. Sep 01 00:26:59 why - he has claimed that right with no more or less authority than you have claimed your state right? Sep 01 00:27:05 rwhitby: having right to privacy is on a completely different level than having right to 1 being != to 1 Sep 01 00:27:05 * mwester has determined that he has a right to his neighbors very nice powerboat. (and the trailer upon which it is currently sitting) Sep 01 00:27:20 johngay: in my country, you don't even have that right under law Sep 01 00:27:34 * mwester suspects that attempting to act on his belief of that right might get him a nice comfy jail cell... :) Sep 01 00:27:39 nyu: why? who gave you the former but not the latter? Sep 01 00:27:45 rwhitby: there exists the concept of a conflict of rights, but having free icecream has nothing to do with that Sep 01 00:27:50 icecreams don't have rights Sep 01 00:27:54 Of course you do. Anyone can die. Everything else is a priviledge. Sep 01 00:27:56 I thought this was obvious, oh well Sep 01 00:27:57 nyu: but I have the right to free ice-cream. Sep 01 00:28:09 ShellEvil: I'm fine with that. go get it? Sep 01 00:28:23 ShellEvil: I don't care as long as you don't mess with mine Sep 01 00:28:27 nyu: you see how silly it is to discuss things based on "rights"? There is only pros and cons, not rights, when it comes to free software. Sep 01 00:28:39 nyu: No - the government has to give me it. Sep 01 00:28:48 rwhitby: what's really silly is having a value system that is not fundamentally based on moral Sep 01 00:29:01 nyu: ah, now please define "moral"? Sep 01 00:29:04 Again, that's not a right, its a priviledge. Sep 01 00:29:12 your morality may not be the same as my morality. Sep 01 00:29:16 There are no rights except the right to die. Sep 01 00:29:21 rwhitby: moral is not a logic system, I can't define it to you in the terms you expect me to Sep 01 00:29:40 nyu: if you can't define it, then it has no meaning in a discussion about rights Sep 01 00:29:42 Can we discuss 2007.2? Sep 01 00:29:52 rwhitby: when you don't step on grey areas, it's pretty clear Sep 01 00:30:03 hello Sep 01 00:30:04 But it's all grey, really. Sep 01 00:30:11 nyu: every area is grey, for various values of morality Sep 01 00:30:19 cannibalism is quite ok in some cultures Sep 01 00:30:20 mwester: is it? so you let strangers enter your home? Sep 01 00:30:23 how can i change the gtk theme on 2008.8update ? Sep 01 00:30:55 nyu: it's quite possible that your morality and my morality are quite similar, but you can't transfer that to everyone. Sep 01 00:30:56 mwester: what about your computer? do you give anyone a shell in it? Sep 01 00:31:00 nyu: yes. If they procure the correct id, with the correct document, I will open the door. Sep 01 00:31:16 rwhitby: it's based on humanity in all cases Sep 01 00:31:21 nyu: both of those arguments come down to pros and cons. I don't see a pro for doing either of those things, so I don't. Sep 01 00:31:25 rwhitby: so there must be somrhing similar in them Sep 01 00:31:28 No morality or rights are involved. Sep 01 00:31:35 No point, white_gecko. Everyone's comparing their penis' right now. Sep 01 00:31:53 I have the right to compare my penis! Sep 01 00:32:01 hm Sep 01 00:32:17 nyu: so there is only pros and cons and personal choice. No rights or morality is required. Sep 01 00:32:24 * ShellEvil declaims 'Shall I compare thee to a summers day?' Sep 01 00:32:24 rwhitby: ok then. are there any pros of me using blobs that don't involve someone else's rights? Sep 01 00:32:36 * white_gecko has the longest, there is no chance for anybody else Sep 01 00:32:42 nyu: *now* we can have a discussion, without involving "rights" Sep 01 00:33:00 rwhitby: if you think we can, answer that.. Sep 01 00:33:01 nyu: Yes -- their existence in the first place may be because they remain "blobs" Sep 01 00:33:22 nyu: did you see the email on the mailing list about the guy who lost his daughter in the shopping mall, and couldn't get her back quickly cause his FR was not working properly? Sep 01 00:33:34 mwester: their existence without the existence of source code to generate them is completely implausible Sep 01 00:33:51 nyu: the source code exists, it's just not available to you Sep 01 00:34:05 rwhitby: I'm sorry about that. how is this related to the discussion? Sep 01 00:34:09 So you have a 48+10V=58V supply Sep 01 00:34:10 oops Sep 01 00:34:11 rwhitby: why not? Sep 01 00:34:20 so again: how can i change the gtk theme on 2008.8update ? Sep 01 00:34:21 rwhitby: what are the pros of source code not being available to me? Sep 01 00:34:25 nyu: What I'm pointing out is that the author of that source code may not have written it, if they had to give it up without any opportunity for personal gain, for example. Sep 01 00:34:55 well, extend the inability to receive an emergency phone call to the point where someone with the source code to the GSM firmware is able to bring down the whole network Sep 01 00:35:04 The Pro is the company who foolishly bought the source without redistibution rights won't get sued. Sep 01 00:35:08 and then you see the con of everyone having gsm firmware source code Sep 01 00:35:19 nyu: I am, for example, very protective of my employer's source code, because if it was freely available, then I would be unemployed. Sep 01 00:35:20 rwhitby: not if the firmware is in a ROM Sep 01 00:35:40 nyu: the secrets in the source code can enable exploits Sep 01 00:35:47 mwester: but that's not because of a natural process, only because of society Sep 01 00:35:51 In many cases, the firmware is the hard part of the design. Sep 01 00:36:01 If you give away the firmware, it's easy to copy. Sep 01 00:36:03 nyu: irrelevant. Sep 01 00:36:12 rwhitby: bugs enable exploits. obfuscation doesn't prevent them Sep 01 00:36:30 mwester: nature doesn't know "rights". society does Sep 01 00:36:32 nyu: yes, but it's not *your* decision whether obfuscation may delay them or not Sep 01 00:37:09 rwhitby: correct. my decisions only concern my own ownership Sep 01 00:37:13 the decision has been made by the producers of the GSM network, that source code will not be shared. Either live with that, or create your own competing network. Sep 01 00:37:19 such as the devices I own, and what they do Sep 01 00:37:37 you have no other choice, since you don't own the asset which is the source code Sep 01 00:37:59 rwhitby: so if I reverse-engineered it, and exploited the flaws, shutting down the whole network, you think this is perfectly fine, because I was able to do it? Sep 01 00:38:20 rwhitby: it's in my device, therefore I own it Sep 01 00:38:21 no, the system relies on laws as well to slow down the occurance of that situation Sep 01 00:38:47 nyu: radio is _not_ a private uncontended medium. Sep 01 00:38:50 Can we quit comparing penis' and get back to discussing FRs???? Sep 01 00:38:51 nyu: if you own the source code, why do you not have it yet? Sep 01 00:39:03 nyu: the impacts of users have effects that cannot be mitigated in software. Sep 01 00:39:03 rwhitby: someone stole it from me Sep 01 00:39:08 rwhitby: a pirate Sep 01 00:39:12 nyu: you didn't have it in the first place Sep 01 00:39:24 rwhitby: I was entitled to it Sep 01 00:39:28 if you had already had it, then you should have copied the source before they stole it Sep 01 00:39:42 nyu: if someone transmits on a frequency they are not allocated, that affects all of the allocated users. Sep 01 00:39:44 nyu: ah, now you've brought "rights" back into the discussion - you can't do that remember. Sep 01 00:40:26 rwhitby: ok, want the reverse? I break into bigcorps' hq and copy the source code Sep 01 00:40:37 do I have rights now? Sep 01 00:40:38 What about people's right to discuss FR on this list?????????????? Sep 01 00:41:21 rwhitby: do you see a problem in that situation? Sep 01 00:41:26 nyu: you have the right to die when someone with greater force (the government) puts you in jail for breaking the law Sep 01 00:41:50 rwhitby: but I could escape from jail. does that mean it's my right to escape? Sep 01 00:41:54 but that's discussing rights, which has no place in this discussion Sep 01 00:42:13 This discussion has no place on this list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sep 01 00:42:48 rwhitby: your whole argument line is based on the assumption that the only absolute moral is the law of the strongest Sep 01 00:43:01 nyu: that is the way of nature, yes. Sep 01 00:43:22 everything else is personal choice and pros and cons Sep 01 00:43:22 rwhitby: indeed, but it has nothing to do with rights or moral Sep 01 00:43:45 * mmontour notes that there is an "#openmoko-offtopic" channel on freenode... Sep 01 00:43:45 johngay: you're absolutely right, my apologies to you. Sep 01 00:43:48 besides, the way of nature is not something that is perfectly understood Sep 01 00:43:51 heh Sep 01 00:43:58 johngay is right Sep 01 00:44:02 that's funny :-) Sep 01 00:44:20 rwhitby: so we finally agree. I can go to sleep now Sep 01 00:44:25 Some people here would like to discuss problems with their phones, not the world. Sep 01 00:44:35 johngay: sorry about that Sep 01 00:44:49 I'd like to get the GSM source code too. I'm just realistic about my chances of doing so outside of an NDA. Sep 01 00:45:36 aww, 2:44 Sep 01 00:45:46 (Since the entity that owns that source code has made a choice based on personal pros and cons not to give it to me) Sep 01 00:45:47 how can i change the gtk theme on 2008.8update ? Sep 01 00:46:20 johngay: You could just post your comments; this isn't like a telephone where only one party can be heard at a time, you know! :) Sep 01 00:47:07 white_gecko posted twice in less than two minutes. He was drown out but the noise. Sep 01 00:47:10 mwester: no, johngay is completely correct - this dicussion was so far offtopic that it should have moved very early on. Sep 01 00:47:10 mwester: does this really happen? :-/ Sep 01 00:47:44 a discussion of pros and cons of releasing gsm source code, without any mention of rights or morals, however, would be completely on-topic Sep 01 00:48:15 No, because discussing it won't change the fact that it won't happen. Sep 01 00:48:23 Well, feel free to answer his question, johngay. I certainly saw his post, but since I don't know that answer, it's not as if he was ignored, at least by me. Sep 01 00:48:58 johngay: yeah, there is that point. Somehow those who are zealous proponents of getting it don't understand that aspect of it. Sep 01 00:49:05 rwhitby: I think the problem in this case is not really for who makes that decision, but about laws that prevent it Sep 01 00:49:20 it's pretty understandable that one doesn't want to go into jail Sep 01 00:49:32 nyu: radio is a shared resource. Sep 01 00:49:40 nyu: then write to your lawmakers and get the law changed, or run for a position in your government :-) Sep 01 00:49:42 I don't know the answer either, but his question scrolled off sreen so fast that I doubt anyone who might know the answer saw it. Sep 01 00:49:46 (and yes, I do understand that aspect - assuming you call me zealous) Sep 01 00:50:11 nyu: if someone chose to write a 'send file between FRs' app, that used a radio channel, they'd get maybe 256K of data bandwidth between two handsets within a kilometer. Sep 01 00:50:24 johngay: That's probably true. I must have missed the IRC rules about ensuring that questions don't scroll of the screen ;) Sep 01 00:50:25 nyu: this however would knock 8-16 people off calls. Sep 01 00:50:31 nyu: you're only mildly zealous in my opinion (and that's just my opinion :-) Sep 01 00:50:35 nyu: some of which may be emergency calls. Sep 01 00:50:47 rwhitby: you're entitled to your opinion! ;-) Sep 01 00:51:08 nyu: no I'm not. people only choose whether to hear it or not. Sep 01 00:51:09 ShellEvil: indeed. then we have a conflict of rights. see? :-) Sep 01 00:51:13 nyu: The primary reason that phones work so well is that other phones don't transmit on the same frequency/allocation at the same time. The towers schedule this. Sep 01 00:51:24 I've been trying to upgrade 2007.2 from the repositories set in the filesystem, but it seems to be slightly broken. Sep 01 00:51:42 johngay: since no-one is maintaining 2007.2, why do you expect it to work? Sep 01 00:51:46 2007.2 hasn't been maintained by Om for a loong time, Sep 01 00:51:46 nyu: remove this constraint, and you break the mobile phone system. Sep 01 00:51:49 Does anyone know a more reliable source and where I edit it? Sep 01 00:52:21 johngay: I'm not aware of a tested 2007.2 to 2008.8 upgrade path, so the answer from me is "unfortunately, no". Sep 01 00:52:31 ShellEvil: how deeply has this been analized technically? I.e. tried to design it in a way that a mallicious node wouldn't be disruptive Sep 01 00:52:40 cope with noise, etc Sep 01 00:52:47 AFAIK nobody has been maintaining it, so if there are any updates, they have not been tested with the rest of the 2007.2 components, so it may or may not work. Sep 01 00:52:52 I can't get on an unsecured wireless network with 2007.2 :/ Sep 01 00:52:53 nyu: you fundamentally cannot - without seriosly complicating the system. Sep 01 00:52:59 But yesterday, someone pointed out a source with a working libtododb. Sep 01 00:53:03 nyu: and reducing range. Sep 01 00:53:28 keeps saying "Sending discover..." Sep 01 00:53:28 I can, tunys. Sep 01 00:53:33 johncylee: what did you do? Sep 01 00:53:34 tunys: You would need to manually install and configure the software to do it - iwconfig, wpa if necessary. :( Sep 01 00:53:34 nyu: the reason the towers are able to pick up distant small transmitters is simply because they are coordinated by the tower not to interfere with each otehr. Sep 01 00:53:55 nyu: there is nothing 'smart' you can do with the protocol that makes it resistant to this fact. Sep 01 00:53:58 I didn't need to install anything. Sep 01 00:54:02 ShellEvil: security by obfuscation. seen this before... Sep 01 00:54:15 nyu: It's a contended resource. Sep 01 00:54:23 so is everything Sep 01 00:54:25 But you need to discover the ESSID of your network, then set it with iwconfig. Sep 01 00:54:27 nyu: there has to be security measures. It is _NOT_ the internet. Sep 01 00:54:28 and it'll eventually break, with or without source code Sep 01 00:54:40 oh well Sep 01 00:54:54 nyu: the internet is point-point (largely) Sep 01 00:55:10 nyu: radio is point-all-points in range Sep 01 00:55:23 ShellEvil: I understand that this makes it a very difficult problem to solve Sep 01 00:55:23 nyu: what works for the internet does not work with radio. Sep 01 00:55:45 then again, I'm guessing no serious effort has been put into solving it Sep 01 00:55:52 Actually, yes. Sep 01 00:55:58 The problem is $$$$$$$$$$ Sep 01 00:56:07 nyu: if you want to play around with DIY/open-source radio communication, I suggest getting an amateur radio license Sep 01 00:56:21 In order to make the handset affordable, compromised have to be made. Sep 01 00:56:25 mmontour: well, I'm not really into that Sep 01 00:56:55 Secure protocols *do* exist (think of public safety trunking radios, and military comms). Sep 01 00:57:13 ShellEvil: then again, I bet it'll be amusing when kids can create jamming devices that shut down entire cells Sep 01 00:57:14 But security protocols are _not_ the problem. Sep 01 00:57:21 But security protocols are _not_ the problem. Sep 01 00:57:33 nyu: or create some interesting applications using the ad-hoc WiFi capabilities of the Freerunner Sep 01 00:57:48 mmontour: mesh networking? Sep 01 00:57:49 The problem is jamming cannot be countered without going to _much_ larger antennas. Sep 01 00:57:49 sounds cool Sep 01 00:57:52 hrm... my settings won't close Sep 01 00:58:02 And mesh networking does _not_ fix this. Sep 01 00:58:18 nyu: yeah, very amusing when someone dies because of it Sep 01 00:58:48 Toaster`: depending on your firmware image, I don't think it's supposed to - just bring the "home" application to the foreground instead. Sep 01 00:59:18 mwester: interesting. Sep 01 00:59:22 nyu: think of it not as a security problem - unregulated users - it's not. It's a DDOS problem Sep 01 00:59:23 rwhitby: if a resource is unreliable, I call it an irresponsability to put human lifes in it Sep 01 00:59:42 nyu: there you go with zealous responses again ... Sep 01 00:59:46 nyu: you cannot counter a DDOS from a local node if it's swamped. Sep 01 01:00:03 rwhitby: you use that work a lot. it was just an opinion... Sep 01 01:00:19 rwhitby: your comment was more zealous than mine Sep 01 01:00:20 every single resource in the world is unreliable. yet we use a range of things to save human life Sep 01 01:00:23 nyu: "reliability" is always measured on a continuum. Sep 01 01:01:01 2:59 am Sep 01 01:01:02 dammit Sep 01 01:01:10 Emergency whistles for use in mountains are useless if people get into the habit of blowing them randomly, forex. Sep 01 01:01:15 my internal clock, _that_ is unreliability Sep 01 01:01:29 good night all ;-) Sep 01 01:01:57 good night nyu Sep 01 01:02:12 Anyone know of a good pre-paid SIM/company in Italy? Sep 01 01:14:12 tunys, you still here? Sep 01 01:14:27 yeah, got it working Sep 01 01:14:37 Glad I could help. Sep 01 01:14:40 what's the opkg for the web browser? openmoo-browser? Sep 01 01:14:43 yeah, thanks! Sep 01 01:14:57 openmoko-browser2 Sep 01 01:16:06 I can't get todo or timesheet to work, and now I've broken messages too. Sep 01 01:23:21 I keep running opkg upgrade, and it keeps opgrading more stuff? Unfortunately, it fails to re-start X so I have to reboot it manually. Sep 01 01:24:23 johngay: are you upgrading over ssh? Sep 01 01:24:41 No. Via the terminal on the phone. Sep 01 01:25:19 ok, I was having issues with dropbear updating, ending my connection, and killing the sessions/upgrade. But I guess that wouldn't affect you Sep 01 01:25:27 I don't have ssh on my desktop, though I do have PuTTY on my daughters Vista laptop /-= Sep 01 01:25:46 That's mentioned on the getting started wiki page. Sep 01 01:26:20 * mwester uses putty even on his linux systems - excellent terminal emulator Sep 01 01:26:39 so, does now somebody know how i can change the gtk theme Sep 01 01:26:57 i want the gtk theme of 2007.2 on 2008.8update Sep 01 01:26:59 I putty available for FR? or it's equiv? Sep 01 01:27:04 johngay: I know, I was just tired at the time and didn't put 2 and 2 together Sep 01 01:27:19 because the png's are to slow Sep 01 01:28:05 There's a "putty" recipe in OE, but I don't know that it's in the feeds for Om Sep 01 01:29:05 I want to get a USB to Serial cable so I can use my phone to log into IBM and Sun server's via their serial managment port. Sep 01 01:29:32 I guess how useful it would be depends a lot on how useful the keyboard app turns out to be, and the discussions around that have been somewhat worrisome. Sep 01 01:29:34 Then I can ask the smug SA's if they can do that with their crackberries? Sep 01 01:30:24 Use one of the bluetooth serial ports paired with the freerunner -- then you don't even have the cable. Sep 01 01:30:30 hrm Sep 01 01:30:37 needs a gamepad Sep 01 01:30:39 :) Sep 01 01:30:54 Dave? Dave's not here, man. Sep 01 01:31:24 Fuck you, John. Sep 01 01:31:34 Looks like minicom or microcom shouild be in the feeds, though -that'll work. Sep 01 01:31:48 You're not my type. Sep 01 01:31:55 Good. Sep 01 01:32:19 woot! Sep 01 01:32:43 sounds like somebody dropped the freerunner on their toe Sep 01 01:33:13 contacts app can add and view, deleting uses the same info as view just with a different function Sep 01 01:33:23 Sounds like I realy got under Dave's skin. Sep 01 01:34:42 anyone around that might be able to help with edje guis later? Sep 01 01:35:21 mwester, it hurts! Sep 01 01:35:31 damn thing is quite weighty :p Sep 01 01:36:14 mwester: or just screen Sep 01 01:36:36 mwester: putty in OE doesn't build (at least on FSO) Sep 01 01:36:49 rut roh Sep 01 01:37:08 rwhitby, what sort of twisted experiments are you up to now? :) Sep 01 01:37:18 * johngay tosses Dave a Scoobie snak Sep 01 01:37:28 Dave: I just try and add to the fso feeds any apps that people mention. Sep 01 01:37:51 on the basis that I'll probably need them at some point, so if they are there already then I win. Sep 01 01:38:53 ah! Sep 01 01:39:08 So, did you win? :P Sep 01 01:39:25 always do Sep 01 01:39:27 rwhitby: I shall add it to my list of package to take a look at fixing. Sep 01 01:42:11 If 2007.2 hasn't been opdated in ages, then what's it the daily-feed that keep upgrading on my phone? Sep 01 01:44:02 packages? Sep 01 01:44:06 There are updates. Sep 01 01:44:20 Maybe you're just not examining the changes/output carefully. Sep 01 01:45:14 OK, so when someone earlier told my that it hadn't been updated in months, they were mis-informed? Sep 01 01:46:15 I've just been running opkg upgrade trying to get my phone up to date so I can start digging into what's broken and why. Sep 01 01:47:31 there was a couple distro fuckups Sep 01 01:47:34 (hiccups) Sep 01 01:47:41 actually, yeah, fuckups Sep 01 01:48:00 so that may have been what led you to believe that it was no longer under development Sep 01 01:48:04 which is crazy :p Sep 01 01:48:28 Is there a better place to upgrade 2007.2 from that daily-feed? Sep 01 01:48:49 *than Sep 01 01:53:46 has nyone fixed the 'init' to '_init' in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py Sep 01 01:53:53 I mean, at some point, opkg should quit installing thing, right? Sep 01 01:54:36 johngay, it does for me I'm on 2008.8 upgraded Sep 01 01:55:45 johngay: the daily-feed is a set of isolated package updates, which could have come from changes based on requirements from any distro in OE (not just Openmoko) Sep 01 01:56:07 it is not a coherent feed for 2007.02 (or any other distro for that matter) Sep 01 01:56:44 there is no coherent place to upgrade 2007.2, since no-one is maintaining that release. Sep 01 01:57:33 Then why did Dave just tell me it was? And why are there new packages for it in daily-feed? Sep 01 01:57:33 there are coherent places for Om2008.8 and FSO as far as I know. Qtopia (Trolltech) also has a coherent upgrade place, but it contains no non-qtopia-specific packages. Sep 01 01:58:29 what did Dave tell you Sep 01 01:59:08 (I wouldn't believe half of what Dave says most of the time anyway, since I can never tell what is serious and what is not) Sep 01 02:00:07 johngay: daily-feed was never stated as an official update place for 2007.2 - all official upgrade places are on downloads.openmoko.org Sep 01 02:00:41 it's just that people saw that individual package updates were happening there, and assumed that someone was managing it in a coherent way, which is an invalid assumption for buildhost Sep 01 02:01:16 so whilst you will see individual package updates there, it is very likely that using it as an upgrade feed will break the consistency of the OS on your phone. Sep 01 02:02:05 But it was already set in the rootfs? Sep 01 02:02:38 So buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed is NOT a good place to update from? Sep 01 02:03:24 buildhost was never set in the rootfs as far as I know Sep 01 02:03:53 I never changed anything. I only ran opkg update && opkg upgrade. Sep 01 02:04:12 have you seen the emails from OM stating that the http server on buildhost is going to be turned off? Sep 01 02:04:31 no. Sep 01 02:05:06 So, where should I point opkg? Sep 01 02:05:21 I just checked; it looks like at least the snapshot builds of 2007.2 did indeed point to buildhost. They should not have done so, but at the time I don't think that any proper feeds existed. Seems nobody ever fixed that. :( Sep 01 02:05:37 Subject "Repository and Images", from julian_chu@openmoko.com to community@lists.openmoko.org and devel@lists.openmoko.org on 26/08/2008 10:37 PM Sep 01 02:06:10 johngay: as I said, there is no coherent feed available for 2007.2 Sep 01 02:06:22 OM wants you to use 2008.8, and only supports that. Sep 01 02:06:22 johngay: I don't think there are or will be any official Om feeds for 2007.2; they've abandoned that source base. Perhaps someone in the community will create one (or has done so already?) Sep 01 02:07:22 OK. But 2008 doesn't have a terminal, and suspend keeps dropping PuTTY and can't be turned off )-: Sep 01 02:08:02 2007.2 mostly works for my. 2008.8 doesn't. Sep 01 02:10:12 The fact that there currently are no reasonably functional images for the device is why I've pretty much stopped working on the Om kernel suspend/resume stuff for a while -- it's rather pointless, and it's also very difficult when there's no stable user-space stuff to test the kernel with. Sep 01 02:11:23 Frankly 2008.8 smell to me like one of those releases where the developers just get tired of the pressure, and take something that's obviously un-usable, and fling it at the Marketing people who are driving the release date. Sep 01 02:12:14 I'm waiting for either Om to get it right (very soon), or for the SHR release. Sep 01 02:14:17 I think you'll be waiting a long time for Om to get it right. They're waiting on us to fix it for them. Sep 01 02:17:15 Funny though. Yesterday, before I tried 2008.8, opkg update && opkg uprade got to the point of complaining that it couldn't install ncurses due to a conflict and didn't try to install anything else. Now it just keeps going and going and going . . . Sep 01 02:18:04 I would think I'd get back to the same point. Sep 01 02:19:26 mwester: that's why I'm using FSO Sep 01 02:19:57 (as well as the fact that nothing else recent runs on a GTA01) Sep 01 02:22:14 rwhitby, yeah, I suffer the gta01 troubles as well. did you ever try fso-pkg/debian again on it? Sep 01 02:22:26 the debian installer failed for me on the gta01 as well Sep 01 02:22:37 jadams_: nope. Sep 01 02:22:48 jadams_: there is a gta01 debian installer script now Sep 01 02:22:49 rwhitby: is bearstech building FSO images right now? Sep 01 02:23:06 mwester: http://tinderbox.openembedded.net/builders/shr.bearstech.com/ Sep 01 02:23:23 and http://shr.bearstech.com/README Sep 01 02:23:23 so, did today's updates break everyone's enlightenment? Sep 01 02:23:48 Cool. I'm going to add a third OS image to my SD card then, and have a quad-boot GTA01. :) Sep 01 02:24:18 mwester: 0,15,30,45 * * * * nice /home/shr/admin/start-autobuild Sep 01 02:25:06 mwester: and I can get you access if you desire Sep 01 02:25:22 (but you can already affect it directly through OE commits) Sep 01 02:25:39 Well, that's pretty much "game, set, and match" -- looks like SHR and FSO have a better build infrastructure than Om does right now! I love the stats... Sep 01 02:26:04 mwester: well, what do you expect? Om hasn't employed me ;-) Sep 01 02:26:14 so, did today's updates break everyone's enlightenment? (x2) Sep 01 02:26:17 :-D Sep 01 02:26:22 tkep: which distro? Sep 01 02:26:22 The road to ruin and despair: employment by Om! :D Sep 01 02:26:25 om2008 Sep 01 02:26:32 i get a fatal error when i boot now :) Sep 01 02:26:34 dunno then, sorry. Sep 01 02:26:54 segv'd enlightenment :) Sep 01 02:26:54 tkep: error message? Sep 01 02:27:12 Ah, ok. thanks. Sep 01 02:27:40 This is very bad, Enlightenment Segv'd Sep 01 02:27:45 and no real info Sep 01 02:27:53 what a lame error, it feels like i'm in windows Sep 01 02:28:02 haha Sep 01 02:28:32 You should be able to ssh into the device, and start it from the ssh session -- or perhaps see if there's a log file, of course. Sep 01 02:28:42 (Can't do that with windows ;) Sep 01 02:28:42 You sure you didn't install WinCE by mistake? Sep 01 02:28:48 mwester, yeah, i'm checking that right now :) Sep 01 02:29:00 but i'm upgrading right now Sep 01 02:29:05 let's see if these new packages fix that Sep 01 02:30:33 So what's the state of FSO? Sep 01 02:31:18 pre-alpha? Sep 01 02:31:29 ok, here is likely my issue.... Sep 01 02:31:42 but generally usable (ime) Sep 01 02:31:52 it looks like the problem is from files being provided by older packages... Sep 01 02:31:58 i'm going to try to force the installs Sep 01 02:33:55 OK. Looks like only timesheet, todo and messages is broken on my 2007.2 install. I can live with that for a little while, though I do prefer to txt than talk, but I don't have any txt's on my SIM ATM anyway. Sep 01 02:34:58 woo, as soon as i get editing a contact working i'll be ready to start on the gui :) Sep 01 02:35:46 that will be difficult, i'm not goot at designing interfaces Sep 01 02:38:15 Nite all. I guess I'll just take 2007.2 for what it is. It works enough for me to get started. Sep 01 02:38:45 Just wish I didn't need to keep it plugged in all the time (-; Sep 01 02:40:19 i think a -force-overwrite will fix my issue Sep 01 02:40:25 if it doesn't, i'll look into it more Sep 01 02:40:27 :) Sep 01 02:41:17 anyone know if there is a TomeRaider like ebook reader, sur would be nice to have offline version of wikipedia and the like Sep 01 02:43:06 what is bricode doing in South America? Sep 01 02:45:06 we're booting, let's see if i can get by without an enlightenment error Sep 01 02:45:07 nope Sep 01 02:45:09 fucking hell Sep 01 02:45:18 errrrr, freaking heck Sep 01 02:45:19 sorry Sep 01 02:46:26 where does it log? i've never really looked at logs...there's no messages file Sep 01 02:46:40 bricode was last seen on a highway in San Jose Sep 01 02:46:47 it's fun to stalk people with TangoGPS! Sep 01 02:48:15 what is the equivalent of /var/log/massages for om2008? Sep 01 02:52:21 * mwester wonders if tkep is in the right part of town for what he's looking for... Sep 01 02:52:35 ? Sep 01 02:52:44 spelling... Sep 01 02:53:00 hahaha Sep 01 02:53:00 try "logread" Sep 01 02:53:05 messages that is Sep 01 02:54:10 At least "logread" gets me all sorts of stuff; can't say if enlightenment actually logs to syslog, though. Sep 01 02:54:18 johngay: fso is stable, but with limited functionality. their goal is to produce a stable framework, and just enough gui on it to test the framework. Sep 01 02:54:29 yeah, logread was good, thanks mwester...grepping to see what i find Sep 01 02:55:25 hmmmm....found some bad blocks, that's really weird Sep 01 02:57:14 eh---it'll probably be quicker to just flash it...i have some things i need to do (like make phone calls :)) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 01 02:59:56 2008