**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 20 02:59:57 2008 Sep 20 03:00:16 malik1972: already there is at least one difference that is apparent, but it's potentially just a config thing Sep 20 03:00:55 i'd much prefer to avoid reinstalling and configuring things / copying data Sep 20 03:06:51 stephelton: do you also have strong gsm audio problems? Sep 20 03:08:19 i dont know if something happens in that direction, buzz, echo, low volume ... my feeling is that it was better some months ago Sep 20 03:10:36 the overall audio quality should have the highest priority otherwise the people who i phone wont buy a freerunner;-) Sep 20 03:10:56 "dont phone me with that mobile anymore!!!" Sep 20 03:11:26 it costs me a lot of friends;-) Sep 20 03:11:44 i just installed 2008.9 an theres no echo an they can hear me very well Sep 20 03:11:56 slaxxin: no Sep 20 03:12:24 slaxxin: have a look at the known issues, it stongly depends on your environment Sep 20 03:12:45 what enviroment? Sep 20 03:12:49 at&t? Sep 20 03:12:56 slaxxin: echo goes, buzz comes, its messy and difficult i think Sep 20 03:13:24 slaxxin: if your are inside, outside, sidetones etc etc Sep 20 03:13:46 ok Sep 20 03:14:26 slaxxin: the problems are not solved Sep 20 03:19:13 slaxxin: this seems to be a good blog http://onlinedev.blogspot.com/2008/09/openmoko-some-news-on-echo-front.html Sep 20 03:55:17 whats with the illume-config installer anyways?? Sep 20 03:57:29 well no dialer working in shr Sep 20 04:35:07 its funny that a release thats supposed to have fixes dont and in my case things get worse Sep 20 04:35:29 now i have wifi -unknown Sep 20 04:35:41 never did before Sep 20 04:43:49 slaxxin, Which one. dot 9? Sep 20 04:44:04 * paulproteus nods, dot 9 Sep 20 04:59:43 hey guys Sep 20 04:59:46 check engadget Sep 20 04:59:55 there's an article on the openmoko Sep 20 05:00:02 (comment me!) Sep 20 05:09:28 anyone Sep 20 05:09:30 anyone at all Sep 20 05:10:24 i ate them all Sep 20 05:16:12 ic Sep 20 05:16:17 so's ya read me comment? Sep 20 05:16:45 http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/19/how-would-you-change-openmokos-neo-freerunner/ Sep 20 05:17:20 img el...who dat\ Sep 20 05:21:38 * raster reads now Sep 20 05:22:34 doesnt say anything interesting Sep 20 05:22:40 and theres just your regular peanut gallery Sep 20 05:22:42 slaxxin: shr hasn't done a release ... Sep 20 05:27:16 raster, your keyboard showed up on my phone Sep 20 05:27:18 i didn't put it there Sep 20 05:27:20 what's the deal Sep 20 05:27:30 (it's crazy faster too) Sep 20 05:27:56 dunno Sep 20 05:28:10 faster though? Sep 20 05:29:23 seems Sep 20 05:29:39 well, when it first popped up it was going a little bit slow Sep 20 05:29:56 but key-highlighting is crazy faster than it used to be Sep 20 05:31:50 hmmm Sep 20 05:31:53 i've never noticed Sep 20 05:32:01 faster than what though? Sep 20 05:32:29 what my old experiences with it were Sep 20 05:32:57 oh Sep 20 05:34:00 hmm Sep 20 05:34:26 the wrench app seems to not launch "battery meter" and "modules" correctly Sep 20 05:39:00 ro no - theyare the normal e desktop dialogs Sep 20 05:39:03 nothing was ever done to them Sep 20 05:40:52 * rwhitby wonders why they are taking up flash and ram space then ... Sep 20 05:41:18 they are part of e's core code Sep 20 05:41:22 and the battery module Sep 20 05:41:32 they are not separatable things Sep 20 05:41:52 typical desktop mentality being shoehorned onto an embedded device ;-) Sep 20 05:45:01 oh a lot of it is separatable Sep 20 05:45:03 but really Sep 20 05:45:29 do u care about 190 lines of code that is the battery config code? Sep 20 05:45:39 the battery itself is a pluggable module Sep 20 05:45:45 its config dialog rides along with it Sep 20 05:46:44 every little bit hurts ... Sep 20 05:46:58 u have the flash to burn there Sep 20 05:47:04 just like that wifi applet that runs on gta01 ... Sep 20 05:47:28 no I don't have the flash, cause I've filled that up with useful apps ... ;-) Sep 20 05:47:30 that was part of illume as i just wanst going to spend the time to make a module all on its own Sep 20 05:47:40 also u'd probably use more space having it as a separate module Sep 20 05:47:46 and I'm 190 bytes short of adding another app ;-) Sep 20 05:47:55 as the overhead in inodes, extra files for the extra module and dirs would be greater than the extra code Sep 20 05:48:17 * rwhitby loves poking raster about illume and embedded devices - it never fails to get a rise ;-) Sep 20 05:48:18 there is a discrete unit that is sane to work with Sep 20 05:48:33 and then whats worth the time and effort humanly Sep 20 05:48:38 u are free to provide patches Sep 20 05:48:39 :) Sep 20 05:48:46 you know I love your work raster :-) Sep 20 05:49:21 i do believe thoug that every thing shoudl come with its own gui config ability Sep 20 05:49:25 ie u install an app Sep 20 05:49:38 it has anytign needed to configure it already there Sep 20 05:49:43 ie the "preferences"मेनु Sep 20 05:49:48 err Sep 20 05:49:50 prefs menu Sep 20 05:49:52 or whatever Sep 20 05:49:56 however it is hooked in Sep 20 05:50:06 and so all the e stuff generally is just like that Sep 20 05:51:21 i do need to make those dialogs work properly on illume tho Sep 20 05:51:24 i just never got to it Sep 20 05:51:29 i started that work week before lats Sep 20 05:51:44 generalisign the config dialog stuff a little more to be able to fit the display policy of illume Sep 20 05:51:57 and then the contents of dialogs needs some re-arranging for specific situations Sep 20 05:52:11 the moduels dialog is the only config dialog built-into e Sep 20 05:52:15 as all other config dialogs are modules Sep 20 05:52:23 or are part of the moduel they configure Sep 20 05:52:40 its built in because well.. u need a way to configure the moduels that configure things... Sep 20 05:52:42 :) Sep 20 05:59:25 hmmm Sep 20 05:59:32 yousure about that? Sep 20 06:01:50 whihc bit? Sep 20 06:03:20 * raster wonders if the frame bg shoudl be solid.. or slightly translucent Sep 20 06:47:02 good morning folks Sep 20 06:47:10 i'm flashing with 2008.9 Sep 20 07:31:57 somehow, pixman package is failing to compile for om2008.8 with makefile Sep 20 07:32:02 can anyone help please ? Sep 20 07:32:23 error is: /build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libcairo.so: undefined reference to `pixman_format_supported_destination' Sep 20 07:35:51 * hipitihop waves to the troops Sep 20 07:51:04 good morning =) Sep 20 07:51:28 ditto Sep 20 07:53:20 while sitting on default OS i am able to backup and restore whole SD card with "dd". but why isnt it possible other way around? why i am unable to backup internal memory (i guess NAND) with "dd" while sitting on debian on SD? Sep 20 07:53:44 it makes a few kilobytes only instead of whole 256MB backup Sep 20 07:53:59 nand flash is completely different from sd cards... Sep 20 07:54:25 the latter have a FTL and play like magnetic block devices Sep 20 07:54:57 see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Backup for backing up your flash Sep 20 07:55:00 yup, they go really fast Sep 20 07:55:14 * rooly snickers at the "FTL" thing Sep 20 07:55:30 ya know what bothers me Sep 20 07:55:32 Wonka, i read that but i searching for faster methods.. Sep 20 07:55:47 Raigedas: if there were some, they'd be there Sep 20 07:55:56 people commenting on that engadget article keep saying 3g 3g 3g 3g Sep 20 07:56:07 wouldn't "more stable phone" be more important? Sep 20 07:56:12 rooly: ack Sep 20 07:56:30 or, "no sound-server quitting" Sep 20 07:56:40 how bout "x11 forwarding to the phone" Sep 20 07:56:43 and before saying "3g", i'd rather say "3g sim" or maybe "gemalto sim" Sep 20 07:56:58 "3g is a must" Sep 20 07:56:59 openssh should do it? Sep 20 07:57:05 wtf, it's still dialup Sep 20 07:57:18 i have a big problem... i run om2008.08 on FR and all gtk-apps are crashing with "bla was interrupted by signal number 4" Sep 20 07:57:23 i'd be happy with internet at all Sep 20 07:57:25 Wonka: nah, om's x won't properly load x-windows Sep 20 07:57:36 foo. Sep 20 07:57:45 from ssh that is Sep 20 07:58:00 i could try debian's x... because i have debian running currently... Sep 20 07:58:13 that would probably work Sep 20 07:58:38 but om2007/8 isn't able to have x forwarded to it Sep 20 07:58:44 forwards itself plenty fine Sep 20 07:59:47 can someone help me? =( Sep 20 08:00:10 sakkara: remember, when someone knows the answer, they will answer Sep 20 08:01:22 rooly: yeah... Sep 20 08:13:33 rooly: X11 forwarding worked fine for me w/ raster's 2008.8 Sep 20 08:14:32 at least xterm from my laptop opened neatly in illume and was visible in the app list just like local applications Sep 20 08:15:15 try something a little more data intense Sep 20 08:16:28 then it's just the usb net being slow or cpu choking, don't say X forwarding isn't working :) Sep 20 08:16:43 used to not work Sep 20 08:17:09 sweet... Sep 20 08:17:25 i just nuked myself and the 2 other opponents in a tankwars game... Sep 20 08:17:38 in 1 shot Sep 20 08:17:46 * rooly should try x11 then Sep 20 08:18:03 forwarding, i mean Sep 20 08:18:39 no good day today =(, when i connect FR to my computer, knetworkmanager wants to make a connection with usb0 and crashes o.O Sep 20 08:21:35 anybody got qtopia-x11-bluetooth running on 2008.8-updated? Sep 20 08:21:58 or can suggest me another bt tool for exchanging files witih other phones Sep 20 08:25:20 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r74dad0ddb9e9 10/fsod/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Sep 20 08:25:20 freesmartphone.org: 1.) Add support for enable_subsystems key Sep 20 08:25:20 freesmartphone.org: 2.) Handle some unhandled errors Sep 20 08:25:20 freesmartphone.org: 3.) Add Time subsystem to the make scripts Sep 20 08:25:21 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r2ac3c836ebea 10/fsod/src/subsystems/Time/ (Makefile.am Time.vala): Add Time subsystem Sep 20 08:32:03 hi, how is sms working on 2008.9 . Do all messages come through? Sep 20 08:32:12 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r9eb8854a01e3 10/ (145 files in 45 dirs): Sep 20 08:32:12 freesmartphone.org: 1.) add a missing Makefile.am Sep 20 08:32:12 freesmartphone.org: 2.) re-organize the repository a bit Sep 20 09:22:03 hello, is there an image that integrate the fix for the echo on the other side when you are in a call? Sep 20 09:22:15 and that has qtopia Sep 20 09:22:25 s/has/have Sep 20 09:26:11 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r35ab40a79d27 10/fsod/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Fix return type of request_name Sep 20 09:29:07 horay Sep 20 09:29:14 bluetooth headset is beginning to work Sep 20 09:32:48 congrats rooly. I'm still busy trying to get the thing phoning and sms' ing reliable ;) Sep 20 09:33:12 hmm, sms has always seemed to work for me Sep 20 09:33:17 maybe it's cause i'm on at&t Sep 20 09:34:10 No it's a qtopia issue. What are you using? Sep 20 09:34:23 2008.9 Sep 20 09:34:36 how's the echo, is it that bad? Sep 20 09:34:52 haven't had an issue with it Sep 20 09:35:41 hmm.. well I will give it a shot. Maybe I'm also one of the lucky few Sep 20 09:36:34 Probably asked before... 2008.9 doesnt have its own updates repository? Sep 20 09:36:59 it uses the same repo as all the others Sep 20 09:37:04 k Sep 20 09:37:14 however, you may need to dig into it and change the repo url's manually Sep 20 09:37:58 hi is everybody here who knows a lot of abaut the hardware of the neo freerunner? Sep 20 09:38:15 specialy about the displays Sep 20 09:38:40 do these numbers in OM version mean date like in ubuntu? Sep 20 09:38:47 yup Sep 20 09:39:25 so, default os for freerunner is made at 2007 february?? Sep 20 09:39:44 year and a half old? Sep 20 09:40:02 the shipped one Sep 20 09:40:20 people don't complain that vista is a year and a half old Sep 20 09:40:30 so what's your problem? Sep 20 09:41:02 No, people just complain at vista ;) Sep 20 09:41:14 default os is 2008.9 Sep 20 09:41:32 shipped iirc is still 2007.2 Sep 20 09:41:49 because vista uses different development model.. 1 year for windows is not so much, as a year for opensource project.. Sep 20 09:42:03 yes, but you can put new images on it Sep 20 09:42:46 normally if you buy a phone, it's software is older Sep 20 09:43:02 because they don't change the software afterwards Sep 20 09:43:10 if it is on the market Sep 20 09:43:18 i'm sure the razor OS is around 5 years old Sep 20 09:43:20 but i am still shoked.. can not understand the reason why they have put 2007.2 instead of latest available.. Sep 20 09:43:49 because they have a simple setup at the factory: assemble the phone, then flash with a script Sep 20 09:43:58 Raigedas, because, *when they putted* it was !latest! stable. Sep 20 09:44:06 Raigedas: they DID put on the latest available Sep 20 09:44:10 mm. Sep 20 09:44:12 ok... Sep 20 09:44:15 isn't 2007.2 still the most stable relable release? Sep 20 09:44:23 ...imo, yes Sep 20 09:44:40 That's because they want to flash a bare empty om2008 on it and you can choose what you want Om2008.9 or FSO Sep 20 09:44:46 however, the today screen likes to crash on it Sep 20 09:44:47 Raigedas, if you recive phone yesterday, it doesn't mean that phone was prodused a day before yesterday) Sep 20 09:44:53 But that bare empty image isn't ready, so they haven't change a bit Sep 20 09:45:03 Well, I'm rather happy with 2008.08, and a friend is too. But, well, you'll get more votes than available distributions, I know someone who's trying to make gentoo run on it ;) Sep 20 09:45:05 so the old om 2007.2 is still flashed Sep 20 09:48:32 qtopia 4.4 could be the one they should be using to ship FR with whenever that is released. I think their dev. model is more robust than openmokos Sep 20 09:48:49 Looking forward to that one. Sep 20 09:49:12 yeah, but openmoko will not punish themself Sep 20 09:49:35 they stand for openness and they put a closed source image at their phne Sep 20 09:49:46 ToOOot: you are completely free to install it once you get the phone ;) Sep 20 09:50:30 viq: i have already done that :) Sep 20 09:50:56 qtopia hasn't gps, it is pure for many people. Sep 20 09:51:26 * rooly sighs Sep 20 09:51:28 1 error Sep 20 09:51:30 only 1 error Sep 20 09:51:51 dolf1074: i think the default image should be the best and most reliable until they all are stable enough. Sep 20 09:53:00 that's why I like qtopia, they start with the most important stuff. Phoning.. the rest comes later Sep 20 09:54:29 I don't remember seeing claims the phone is fully usable out of the box ;) It's a geek toy, doing that would take away part of the appeal, at least for some of the people ;) Sep 20 09:54:33 you may like the qtopia, but openmoko will not shoot his head and make an opensource phone without opensource software. Btw. the freerunner isn't a consumer ready phone. So don't expect to get one. Sep 20 09:54:46 but I will try 2008.9 later today. Curious how far they are. Sep 20 09:54:48 "Ha! I made my phone work! Beat that!" ;) Sep 20 09:55:36 ok, viq Sep 20 09:55:56 i'll call your bet, and raise you my bluetooth headset almost working Sep 20 09:56:41 not consumer ready is one thing, but I think we should expect a phone at least to be able to phone and sms reliable Sep 20 09:56:59 devs do phone as well don't they? Sep 20 09:57:11 not on the freerunner Sep 20 09:57:20 only the craziest of us actually use this as an everyday phone Sep 20 09:57:44 rooly: oh, it's not hard to beat what I am doing with my phone ;) But yes, bluetooth headset is nice :) Sep 20 09:57:58 Especially if you can also make it play musisc through it ;) Sep 20 09:58:00 paired, and making boong and beep Sep 20 09:58:07 but no phone calls yet Sep 20 09:58:08 how should i enter my PIN (on om2008.8) if it shows qwerty keyboard and no numbers? :)) Sep 20 09:58:19 slide up on the keyboard Sep 20 09:58:20 not ready = not ready, so if it is sms that don't work or it is the gps. It's all the same. It's just not ready Sep 20 09:58:31 Raigedas: read the topic of this channel Sep 20 10:05:27 when running debian on the Neo, how can I mount the build in flash? Sep 20 10:06:11 i.e. what device is it or do I have to make the nodes? Sep 20 10:07:15 What does a flashing aux led mean on 2008.08 ? And the phone seems to have hanged... Sep 20 10:08:22 installing debian will format the sd card Sep 20 10:09:24 you just need to kill x and run install.sh to install it, it takes ages Sep 20 10:10:57 * rooly sighs Sep 20 10:10:59 another day Sep 20 10:11:03 nn Sep 20 10:11:19 Night. Sep 20 10:14:35 hi. Im having problem with xfce installation on debian Sep 20 10:15:13 go ahead and explain Sep 20 10:15:23 running xfce only starts zhone. Guess it has something to do with "cp /etc/init.d/zhone-session /etc/init.d/xfce" ? Sep 20 10:16:25 x starts differently, give me a second i'll boot mine Sep 20 10:17:06 islandescape: /dev/mtdblock6 /mnt/flash jffs2 defaults,noatime,noauto 0 2 Sep 20 10:17:27 Sascha: great! thanks Sep 20 10:24:14 ok you should be able to edit /etc/init.d/zhone-session and change PROG_FSO=/usr/bin/xfce-session Sep 20 10:27:26 thanks. give me one minute Sep 20 10:34:00 seems like i totally missed the "Then you may hack /etc/init.d/xfce making" Sep 20 10:34:15 trying xfce start now Sep 20 10:37:00 there she goes =) thanks Sep 20 10:37:38 np, i've hacked my scripts to use more of the matchbox desktop Sep 20 10:38:21 hi Sep 20 10:38:27 ok. guess I'lljust move on to that now Sep 20 10:38:53 i tried to change the xfwm4 windowmanager to matchbox Sep 20 10:39:12 but if i want to remove xfwm4 it also remove xfce4 Sep 20 10:39:52 well you need it installed but you could hack your xfce startup somehow Sep 20 10:40:35 tell us Sep 20 10:40:38 in ~/.xinitrc: ? Sep 20 10:42:40 not sure how it starts, let me install it Sep 20 10:44:06 how can the "Using matchbox-window-manager with XFCE" paragraph require removal of xfce? Sep 20 10:47:31 the package xfce4 requires the package xfwm but we want to change the window manager it uses, you can't get rid of the package but you could change how xfce4 works Sep 20 10:55:49 http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/2199735/ Sep 20 11:03:09 http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/2199735/ Sep 20 11:10:27 please give me URL to OM2007.2 ... i am realy lost on wiki.. Sep 20 11:10:52 cannot find rootfs for om2007.2 Sep 20 11:11:17 start from http://downloads.openmoko.org/ Sep 20 11:12:22 Hello, is there anyone with experience building om on fedora? Sep 20 11:13:23 viq, there is only 2007.11 .. and only for gta01 Sep 20 11:14:04 try http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/freerunner_om-gta02/ Sep 20 11:18:15 Do I really need to reflash to get 2008.9? Will opkg update/upgrade not get me the same result? Sep 20 11:28:56 * rwhitby wonders why people don't understand that Qtopia is dual-licensed with GPL being one of the licenses, therefore it *is* open source. Sep 20 11:29:04 i just install debian on my FR and when i want to boot from microSD i get an error: unable to read uImage from MMC 1:1 Sep 20 11:29:20 rwhitby: ignorance Sep 20 11:29:50 fletch: do you have an updated u-boot? Sep 20 11:30:34 just reading the backlog with dolf1074 going off about openmoko "punishing themself" by putting Qtopia (which is open source) on an open source phone. Ignorance indeed. Sep 20 11:31:04 i tried the uboot from 2008.9 Sep 20 11:31:11 oh wait Sep 20 11:31:15 uimage Sep 20 11:31:18 rwhitby: people refuses to understand world, but meh, hu-mans are weird Sep 20 11:31:21 even worse is that no-one else in the channel at that time knew it was open source either, cause no-one corrected him. Sep 20 11:31:27 uboot is from april 2 Sep 20 11:31:51 fletch: you need updated uboot. debian installs it's boot on ext2, which older uboot does not support Sep 20 11:32:02 how do i update? Sep 20 11:32:09 dfu-util Sep 20 11:32:31 When will the GTA03 or perhaps GTA04 be available ? Sep 20 11:32:42 hever: in the future Sep 20 11:32:48 hever: when it will be ready. Maybe even this decade ;) Sep 20 11:34:24 I thought perhaps someone knows something more about it. Sep 20 11:34:38 hever: no we cannot know the future Sep 20 11:35:03 and whats the state ? Sep 20 11:35:42 specifications are not finalised, so production is *way* off in the future. Sep 20 11:37:17 but its a fact that it won't be 3G able, or are there still discussions to bring it in GTA03 ? Sep 20 11:37:43 how can i update uboot with dfu-utils? Sep 20 11:37:55 no 3g for 03 Sep 20 11:38:20 that's pretty certain, as far as certain goes in this Sep 20 11:40:41 thanks Sep 20 11:42:33 fletch: dfu-util -a u-boot -D Sep 20 11:42:45 just found it in the wiki :) Sep 20 11:42:47 thnx Sep 20 11:42:58 fletch: assuming you're on a GTA02 FreeRunner. Don't do it to a GT01 without a Debug Board handy. Sep 20 11:43:13 already done :) Sep 20 11:44:02 no i get another error message when i want to start debian Sep 20 11:44:10 i reinstall it now Sep 20 11:44:17 rwhitby: The FUD methodology is extremely effective to those with only a fleeting interest in a targeted topic :) Sep 20 11:44:27 And since that's the majority, well... :) Sep 20 11:44:49 leinir: indeed Sep 20 11:44:58 leinir: son, indeed so Sep 20 11:45:42 * rwhitby mails the list about his pet peeve about "hobbyists" saying "oh, I didn't have time to upload the source code alongside that GPL'd binary" ... Sep 20 11:46:20 hah Sep 20 11:57:14 Im having problems with a 2GB MicroSD card on 2008.8. fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 says "cannot read from /dev/mmcblk0". The card works fine on my Nokia N82 and all laptops Sep 20 11:58:34 could this be a driver issue? Sep 20 12:06:49 you know, there's a "1337 Pope St" here in san francisco.. Sep 20 12:06:56 perhaps the most awesome address ever Sep 20 12:07:26 I've been in Phear Park ;) Sep 20 12:08:46 hehe, there's a park in upstate new york called "Jacks Kill Area" ... if only my name were jack Sep 20 12:09:03 would be an awesome place for a pinic with a date Sep 20 12:09:39 lol Sep 20 12:10:39 the sdcard problem fixed itself after doing "dmesg | grep mmc". What can that tell us? Sep 20 12:11:08 "Everything works after you threaten it appropriately" ;) Sep 20 12:11:32 bove: there have been some messages on the mailing list about intermittent problems recognising sd cards Sep 20 12:12:00 dmesg only reads the kernel log, so it had nothing to do with that Sep 20 12:12:33 * rwhitby wonders what is eating his $GPGSV's on the gta01 such that ogpsd is not seeing them ... Sep 20 12:13:23 ok. It died again now Sep 20 12:16:06 but is it a software issue? Sep 20 12:17:11 I need this specific card for installing Debian, so being able to see it in 2008.8 is not really a big issue Sep 20 12:20:11 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r82e0e66044a7 10/packages/connman/connman_git.bb: [connman] Use the http protocol to be able to git-clone/git-fetch connman Sep 20 12:21:47 bove: since it's a kernel thing, I expect it will affect all distros Sep 20 12:24:12 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r8a98ceaac17a 10/packages/libgdbus/libgdbus_git.bb: [libgdbus] Use the right git server, use the right protocol Sep 20 12:24:12 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r7cc01d33f597 10/packages/clutter/moblin-proto_git.bb: [moblin-proto] Use the right git server Sep 20 12:26:13 ok. maybe I'll just go out and see if I can find that confirmed-to-work 2gb Sandisk card from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Sep 20 12:30:39 raster: ping Sep 20 12:34:15 DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 Sep 20 12:43:17 * rwhitby wonders if GTA01 has an SD card <-> GPS problem too Sep 20 12:44:05 it has Sep 20 12:44:39 and let me guess - the kernel patches were only for GTA02? Sep 20 12:45:01 sure Sep 20 12:45:09 since it's completely somewhere else on the 01 Sep 20 12:45:14 right Sep 20 12:45:34 i don't even know whether the SoC can tweak SD in the same way as glamo can Sep 20 12:45:38 * rwhitby 's interest level in openmoko just dropped a notch Sep 20 12:45:47 :D Sep 20 12:45:59 How so? Sep 20 12:46:20 how so what? Sep 20 12:46:52 [2008-09-20 14:44:15] * rwhitby 's interest level in openmoko just dropped a notch Sep 20 12:46:56 ah Sep 20 12:46:57 well Sep 20 12:47:09 general annoyance over Openmoko's hardware capabilities Sep 20 12:47:19 the hardware team is improving Sep 20 12:47:20 slowly Sep 20 12:47:21 but still Sep 20 12:47:38 leinir: I only have a GTA01 (since the pre-production GTA02 I got doesn't work), and now I just realise (I should have realised much earlier) that GTA01's limited flash is going to be an issue (I thought booting from SD card would fix that) Sep 20 12:47:57 Righty Sep 20 12:48:17 Hey, that's what happens when you let everyone follow your hardware dev. They get to see what is hidden by other companies. Sep 20 12:48:27 johngay: *nod* Sep 20 12:48:28 Indeed :) Sep 20 12:48:37 if it was me i would not be so open Sep 20 12:48:42 i think it's endangering the business Sep 20 12:48:48 and since I won't be replacing my Treo650 phone with anything that doesn't have a physical keyboard, the GTA02 is not really an option for anything other than a development device Sep 20 12:49:21 Apple does a real nice BT keyboard for only $80. Sep 20 12:49:40 bbiab Sep 20 12:49:44 johngay: convergence is the key word here ... Sep 20 12:49:45 Roh: ping Sep 20 12:49:57 johngay: It's a question of practicality :) Sep 20 12:50:18 I already have one device that does everything I need (the Treo650), but doesn't run Linux. I'm not moving to two devices just to run Linux. Sep 20 12:50:22 A fold-out keyboard on the device itself is decidedly more practical than a second device you have to get out of your picket :) Sep 20 12:50:53 A physical keyboard is so essential that it should never be folded away Sep 20 12:51:03 (for my use cases, that is) Sep 20 12:51:09 Well, with a BT keyboard, a mini-USB to USB female adaptor and a USB-serial converter, my FR is practicality a laptop (-; Sep 20 12:51:20 i was going to say something like "for you", yeah ;) Sep 20 12:51:28 Most of the time it's in the way for me :) Sep 20 12:51:34 johngay: and I bet it doesn't slide easily into a single pocket in your jeans Sep 20 12:52:02 Not even into a picket. But it'd serve my purposes nicely. Sep 20 12:52:39 For my use case, I need to be able to (using one hand only), pull the phone out of the pocket, switch to email, get new email, type a reply, put phone back in pocket. Sep 20 12:52:41 * zedstar likes a physical keyboard on a device also Sep 20 12:53:27 The Treo is the *only* phone on the market that can do that. Any windows mobile device takes about three times as many key presses to do the same thing, and you need to look at the menu. Sep 20 12:53:54 Actually, I'd prefer a graphiti-type input method, but it lacks too many special keys. Sep 20 12:54:23 * rwhitby hasn't used graphiti since the Treo180 Sep 20 12:56:12 be interested to see how the HTC dreams keyboard is Sep 20 12:56:25 I've loved graphiti since I got my half-price Pilot when 3COM bought USR. Sep 20 12:56:55 I wonder if Xerox could be convinced to share it? Sep 20 12:57:02 most days I don't even pull the stylus out of the slot, and I use the Treo a *lot* Sep 20 12:57:36 each to his own, I guess. Sep 20 12:58:20 That's why we like Linux, if gives us choices (-; Sep 20 12:58:28 my treo 650 is in my gadget grave yard now but it was about the best phone keyboard experience i had also Sep 20 12:58:40 zedstar: how much you want for it? Sep 20 12:59:03 Then hack the keyboard from it to you FR (-; Sep 20 12:59:12 johngay: already do that Sep 20 12:59:15 rwhitby the antenna is busted but i guess could be fixed Sep 20 12:59:21 (via BT and dund and ssh) Sep 20 12:59:41 zedstar: even better - I can use it to port fso Sep 20 12:59:56 * SpeedEvil wonders if graphiti is used in any products now. Sep 20 13:00:03 I know there were legal probs Sep 20 13:00:21 rwhitby i dont mind donating it to a good FOSS use! Sep 20 13:00:27 so - with om 2008.9 - could i finally use freerunner as a phone - even for a day at a time without huge configuring and trouble? Sep 20 13:00:32 Xerox sued 3COM due to patent infringement. Sep 20 13:01:00 zedstar: I'd be happy to pay shipping costs. An international small box is about USD$14 I think. Sep 20 13:01:23 mickey|bbiab: what do you think the chances of running fso on Treo650 are? Sep 20 13:01:28 But with the recent spate of patents being 'given' to the Linux community, maybe Xerox could be perswaded? Sep 20 13:02:05 xstroke is pretty close Sep 20 13:02:27 rwhitby ok....i will work out a way of sending it to u.....email me and we sort it out jmoore@zedstar.org Sep 20 13:03:03 xstroke? sf doesn't have it. Sep 20 13:03:07 zedstar: sent Sep 20 13:03:52