**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 24 02:59:57 2008
Sep 24 03:04:10 <slaxxin> how do i stop  2008.8     from making my sdcard busy?
Sep 24 03:04:35 <rooly> don't install it on the sdcard?
Sep 24 03:04:52 <slaxxin> why?
Sep 24 03:06:16 <rooly> that would make it not busy up the sdcard
Sep 24 03:06:52 <slaxxin> trying to install debian to the sdcard an i get this 
Sep 24 03:07:13 <slaxxin> umount: /media/card: device is busy
Sep 24 03:07:28 <rooly> ...nvm
Sep 24 03:07:38 <slaxxin> lol
Sep 24 03:10:47 <kd8ikt> umount -fl /media/card
Sep 24 03:10:56 <kd8ikt> <force,lazy>
Sep 24 03:11:17 <kd8ikt> also you may not be able to remount it without a reboot or something like a reread of the device
Sep 24 03:12:32 <kd8ikt> http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?umount+8
Sep 24 03:12:56 <slaxxin> ok
Sep 24 03:20:36 <slaxxin> yay
Sep 24 03:20:53 <rooly> anywho
Sep 24 03:20:55 <rooly> bedtime
Sep 24 03:20:55 <rooly> nn
Sep 24 03:23:43 <slaxxin> later
Sep 24 03:25:03 <slaxxin> how would one cause 2008.8 to use the tangogps maps from the debian install on sdcard
Sep 24 03:25:21 <slaxxin> a simple path maybe?
Sep 24 03:27:20 <ieatcode> just point it to the appropriate maps cache dir in the tango config
Sep 24 03:34:47 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rbd066c464603 10/tools/cli-framework: 
Sep 24 03:34:47 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: tools: add usage and gps interfaces to cli-framework. closes fso #131
Sep 24 03:34:47 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: patch by fso@mattb.net.nz, thanks!
Sep 24 03:39:27 <slaxxin> yea but i dont know where that is
Sep 24 04:44:08 <slaxxin> come on in people
Sep 24 04:46:16 <kd8ikt> u mean om-location?
Sep 24 04:46:44 <kd8ikt> dunno if those (tangogps) tiles are compatible with om-location
Sep 24 04:47:25 <kd8ikt> and i also am kinda depressed there is no config file that i know of to tell om-location where to save cache
Sep 24 04:48:02 <kd8ikt> AFAIK it gets dumped in tmp(ram) to be lost on reboot
Sep 24 04:48:32 <kd8ikt> wich upsets me cause i dont get unlimited GPRS (GSM internet) 
Sep 24 04:48:53 <kd8ikt> which*?
Sep 24 04:49:58 <kd8ikt> old habiuts die hard
Sep 24 04:52:28 <Agrajag-> last time i used tangogps on an eeepc there was the tile cache location in tangogps's gui config
Sep 24 04:55:11 <kd8ikt> but i think slaxxin is talking about using "location" (om-location binary) 
Sep 24 04:55:27 <kd8ikt> to utilize tangogps's tiles cache
Sep 24 04:55:57 * kd8ikt throws his two cents out and doesnt care what change comes back
Sep 24 04:57:29 <aliases123> it still is. 
Sep 24 04:58:22 <aliases123> ah wait no. i think they are working on that. it would be nice to have locations and tango use the same tiles tho.
Sep 24 05:00:01 <slaxxin> how to get zhone to die in debian?
Sep 24 05:02:18 <kd8ikt> killall zhone
Sep 24 05:02:40 <kd8ikt> <you must kill it for it to die>
Sep 24 05:04:27 <kd8ikt> or ' for $pid in $(ps ax |grep zhone |awk '{print $1}' ); do kill -KILL $pid ; done;
Sep 24 05:04:57 <kd8ikt> but if you're using that lil onscreen keyboard that might not be feasible
Sep 24 05:05:52 <slaxxin> so if i killall     zhone   i can enter "zhone an it will start back up?
Sep 24 05:06:09 <kd8ikt> should
Sep 24 05:06:18 <kd8ikt> zhone & to deamonize it
Sep 24 05:08:11 <slaxxin> is there a debian gui?
Sep 24 05:08:26 <kd8ikt> x11
Sep 24 05:08:42 <kd8ikt> anything that uses xserver 
Sep 24 05:08:50 <slaxxin> is zhone the desktop?
Sep 24 05:09:06 <slaxxin> not
Sep 24 05:10:06 <kd8ikt> i believe the debian rootfs uses plain ole xserver with zhone and a teminal/keyboard 
Sep 24 05:11:05 <slaxxin> so x is already running ?
Sep 24 05:11:18 <slaxxin> i killed zhone
Sep 24 05:11:36 <kd8ikt> yea
Sep 24 05:11:48 <kd8ikt> else zhone wouldnt be able to start
Sep 24 05:12:04 <slaxxin> so theres no bachground image?
Sep 24 05:13:24 <kd8ikt> nope
Sep 24 05:13:35 <kd8ikt> u mean zhone's lil background?
Sep 24 05:13:49 <kd8ikt> dunno how one would/could change that
Sep 24 05:14:07 <kd8ikt> might be compiled in or somethin
Sep 24 05:14:23 <kd8ikt> couldnt hurt to gander at the source
Sep 24 05:14:25 <Sargun> uhm
Sep 24 05:14:44 <Sargun> SpeedEvil, yt?
Sep 24 05:15:04 <kd8ikt> or search the filesystem for image files and check if any of those match the image
Sep 24 05:21:57 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03marek * r4664 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/ (codegen/codegen.py codegen/h2def.py evas/evasmodule.c): 
Sep 24 05:21:57 <CIA-22> openmoko: make the evas binding compile and run without crash on import
Sep 24 05:21:57 <CIA-22> openmoko: known issues:
Sep 24 05:21:57 <CIA-22> openmoko: the functions needs testing
Sep 24 05:31:38 <kelvie> how do you flash the kernel live on the openmoko?
Sep 24 05:33:04 <ljp> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php?id=360917304&eid=-50
Sep 24 05:33:18 <kelvie> hmm or can I just replace the uimage in boot? :p
Sep 24 05:33:26 <kelvie> s,boot,/boot,
Sep 24 05:38:29 <slaxxin> yep its time to step up to the plate
Sep 24 07:03:03 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rb8b9889f4e71 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
Sep 24 07:03:03 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Use UCS2 as default character set
Sep 24 07:03:03 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: This solves internationalization issues for contact names.
Sep 24 07:19:49 <Hopscotch> good morning
Sep 24 07:21:40 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03marek * r4665 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/ (8 files in 4 dirs): 
Sep 24 07:21:40 <CIA-22> openmoko: cleanup evas
Sep 24 07:21:40 <CIA-22> openmoko: ecore support added
Sep 24 07:21:40 <CIA-22> openmoko: known issues:
Sep 24 07:21:40 <CIA-22> openmoko: it needs to be tested
Sep 24 07:26:47 <becjone> a quick question: does somebody have try to something with RTAI on freerunner ?
Sep 24 07:40:32 <beni_> woohoow, i changed the background image :D
Sep 24 07:42:35 <becjone> you mean the startup background image ?
Sep 24 07:45:12 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * r39e48aa1bc1e 10/src/zhone: 
Sep 24 07:45:12 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Move GSM registration handling from Register() callback to network Status signal handler.
Sep 24 07:45:12 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Patch courtesy hedora -- thanks! Closes FSO ticket #139
Sep 24 07:47:02 <beni_> becjone: no, desktop wallpaper :D
Sep 24 07:47:14 <beni_> easy i know
Sep 24 07:47:23 <beni_> but its the first time i played with edje
Sep 24 07:47:32 <becjone> not for everyone
Sep 24 07:49:17 <beni_> time to get some nudes onto the screen *G*
Sep 24 07:49:33 <beni_> becjone: i wrote a tutorial here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Edje#Troubleshooting
Sep 24 07:49:39 <beni_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Edje
Sep 24 07:49:59 <beni_> sort of
Sep 24 07:50:05 <beni_> i explained how that all works
Sep 24 07:50:16 <beni_> maybe there should be some step-by-step tutorial.
Sep 24 07:50:30 <beni_> with well commented .edc-code
Sep 24 07:50:49 <ceda> i'd prefer to have gprs work in fso again
Sep 24 07:52:44 <ceda> mickey|zzZZzz: does the images built on downloads.free... contain a file that says which build it is/was? like /etc/build-details.txt
Sep 24 07:53:08 <ceda> since reflashing takes some time it'd be nice to look at that file to determine which image you're on
Sep 24 08:05:38 <becjone> ceda: i just kown there is /etc/version and /etc/timestamp but is this enough ?
Sep 24 08:07:08 <raster> beni_: http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/export/36203/trunk/THEMES/b_and_w/theme.edc
Sep 24 08:07:10 <raster> comments...
Sep 24 08:07:11 <raster> lots
Sep 24 08:11:25 <lloyd_fedora> using 2008.9 .. its kindda difficult to browse the contacts .. are there any options available
Sep 24 08:23:22 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rf6be7e427f5c 10/framework/controller.py: 
Sep 24 08:23:22 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Controller.object method raise a KeyError exception if the object is not present.
Sep 24 08:23:22 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  It makes more sens, since most of the time an object not present is an error.
Sep 24 08:23:22 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r73068a192652 10/framework/subsystem.py: Print the traceback if an exception occures during a subsytem init.
Sep 24 08:23:23 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r0ab8aae3b97b 10/tests/tasklet.py: 
Sep 24 08:23:25 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: [tests] Updated tasklet module
Sep 24 08:23:27 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  In fact I should totaly remove it since we have a tasklet module in the framework now.
Sep 24 08:23:30 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r6704245cdfad 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
Sep 24 08:23:32 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Added the resource module.
Sep 24 08:23:34 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  Every subsystem that wants to register as a resource should subclass Resource,
Sep 24 08:23:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  and reimplement the _enable, _disable, _suspend and _resume methods.
Sep 24 08:23:38 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  it should also make sure to call Resource.__init__ with a keyword 'name' parameter.
Sep 24 08:23:40 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org:  I updated ogsmd to behave this way, but we still need to implement the methods.
Sep 24 08:35:03 <beni_> raster: thanks for pointing me to that file
Sep 24 08:35:08 <beni_> i added the link to the wiki
Sep 24 08:35:21 <beni_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Edje
Sep 24 08:35:42 <beni_> i just wrote some http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Changing_wallpaper brief tutorial
Sep 24 08:36:39 <raster> thats way too complicated
Sep 24 08:36:55 <raster> thanks to om's desire to not use any of e's existing config
Sep 24 08:37:08 <raster> i hope that kind fo info dies a horrible death soon
Sep 24 08:37:13 <raster> then again it likely wont
Sep 24 08:37:21 <raster> as long as u use 2008.X
Sep 24 08:39:12 <ceda> becjone: thanks, I'll see if it's enough
Sep 24 08:39:30 <beni_> i just started to play around with edje, it would be very cool, if we would have some easy way to just overload the theme.
Sep 24 08:39:36 <beni_> but i dont know how to do this.
Sep 24 08:40:32 <raster> beni_: there is an easy way to just "select a background"
Sep 24 08:40:39 <raster> have u use e on the desktop?
Sep 24 08:43:01 <beni_> raster: no
Sep 24 08:43:07 <raster> aha!
Sep 24 08:43:21 <raster> that's why you're missing all the bits i'm talking about
Sep 24 08:43:22 <raster> :)
Sep 24 08:43:28 <raster> e has all these things
Sep 24 08:43:29 <beni_> yes, most probably :)
Sep 24 08:43:32 <raster> and a mountain more
Sep 24 08:43:44 <raster> om decided not to give them to you
Sep 24 08:43:49 <raster> their choice
Sep 24 08:43:52 <raster> not mine
Sep 24 08:43:57 <raster> not e's
Sep 24 08:43:58 <beni_> dont blamed you ;)
Sep 24 08:44:06 <raster> nothing "to do"
Sep 24 08:44:08 <raster> its done
Sep 24 08:44:12 <raster> just not exposed to you
Sep 24 08:44:22 <raster> sure e's config dialogs that do this dont fit nicely on 480x640
Sep 24 08:44:22 <beni_> it only would be cool, if there would be some "default" way in om how to do that kind of stuff
Sep 24 08:44:33 <raster> but thats a mater of re-arranging them
Sep 24 08:44:38 <raster> they are already pluggable modules
Sep 24 08:45:18 <beni_> well, i hope, they will make that available soon. Until then, i keep on compiling :)
Sep 24 08:45:40 <beni_> or do i have other choices?
Sep 24 08:46:00 <raster> well i'm going to have e on fso have most of it's desktop stuff
Sep 24 08:46:04 <raster> i've been working on a theme
Sep 24 08:46:09 <raster> and been doign small tweaks to it
Sep 24 08:46:19 <raster> likely om wont use any of it
Sep 24 08:46:34 <raster> as it goes against their policy of making everything python
Sep 24 08:46:39 <raster> as i tend to do everything in c
Sep 24 08:46:53 <raster> so they wont want to expose more features form e that are in c
Sep 24 08:47:37 <raster> right now i'm adding to e the ability to auto-scale all of its ui based on dpi
Sep 24 08:47:44 <raster> but much more intelligently than just "svg"
Sep 24 08:47:49 <raster> ie scale everything or nothing
Sep 24 08:47:56 <raster> u can selectively scale elements
Sep 24 08:48:00 <raster> and keep some pixel-perfect
Sep 24 08:48:03 <raster> alreadydone in edje
Sep 24 08:48:11 <raster> alreayd has a scale control
Sep 24 08:48:24 <raster> works - now i just need ot have e twiddle the scale control knob
Sep 24 08:48:46 <lpotter> make it go up to 11!
Sep 24 08:48:56 <raster> u dont want that!
Sep 24 08:49:15 <lpotter> yes! its 1 better than 10
Sep 24 08:49:15 <raster> unless u have yourself some 1700 dpi screen... :)
Sep 24 08:49:43 <raster> i just need to have all the options there
Sep 24 08:49:46 <raster> ie dont scale with dpi
Sep 24 08:49:49 <raster> auto-scale with dpi
Sep 24 08:49:56 <raster> limit scale facrot between X and Y
Sep 24 08:49:59 <raster> factor
Sep 24 08:50:07 <raster> use a custom scale factor
Sep 24 08:50:08 <raster> etc.
Sep 24 08:51:32 <lpotter> i personally cannot see the appeal of pyhton
Sep 24 08:51:43 <lpotter> or python for that matter
Sep 24 08:51:50 <raster> same
Sep 24 08:51:59 <raster> actually i can
Sep 24 08:52:04 <raster> for lazy programmers
Sep 24 08:52:08 <lpotter> heh
Sep 24 08:52:10 <becjone> maybe for prototyping
Sep 24 08:52:14 <raster> rapid "i just hacked up an idea in the last 10 mins":
Sep 24 08:52:37 <lpotter> python/perl/java... same thing
Sep 24 08:52:38 <becjone> put i don't like lazy typed language
Sep 24 08:52:39 <raster> or for "i barely know how to rub 2 sticks together to make fire, letalone program, but with python! i can make software!"
Sep 24 08:52:56 <raster> (personalyl such people should have their fingers lopped off so they dont infect us with their software...)
Sep 24 08:52:59 <becjone> (i mean apart for ocaml :D)
Sep 24 08:53:27 <becjone> ocaml on neo, i need to try this :)
Sep 24 08:53:27 <raster> in the end - if u want it done rightand efficiently
Sep 24 08:53:35 <raster> and solidly.. it comes back to c/c++...
Sep 24 08:53:36 <raster> :)
Sep 24 08:53:50 <becjone> or ocaml :p
Sep 24 08:53:55 <raster> as long as u just have lots of libraries that make life easy there (qt, glib, gtk, efl etc.)
Sep 24 08:53:59 <raster> it's largely irrelevant
Sep 24 08:54:14 <raster> i'd say om spent more development time on exposure in python
Sep 24 08:54:19 <raster> than it would have been in c
Sep 24 08:54:29 <raster> by probably 3-4 times as much dev time
Sep 24 08:55:17 <becjone> their choice ... :(
Sep 24 08:55:18 <lpotter> hmmm
Sep 24 08:55:29 <raster> sure
Sep 24 08:55:43 <raster> doesnt say much for python though
Sep 24 08:56:25 <raster> imho
Sep 24 08:56:34 <raster> ok
Sep 24 08:56:44 <raster> if u wanted control over how your ui scales...
Sep 24 08:56:56 <raster> actually never mind
Sep 24 08:57:02 <ronny> my usual experience with python is needing to solve 1/10 of time and code compared to c
Sep 24 08:57:02 <raster> it wotn make sense to ppl :)
Sep 24 08:58:23 <raster> i would disagree
Sep 24 08:58:35 <becjone> ronny: maybe a question of pratice with C ?
Sep 24 08:58:44 <raster> then again i have been eating, sleeping and breathing c for over a decade
Sep 24 08:58:53 <raster> i've probably whacked out about 700k lines of c in that time
Sep 24 08:58:57 <ronny> becjone: i work with gtk, and i make signals/inheritance tree
Sep 24 08:59:02 <raster> so to me c is zero barrier
Sep 24 08:59:28 <raster> doesnt slow me down - the code and solutions (not the language and mechanics) are the real thngs to think over
Sep 24 09:00:09 <becjone> to me python has only the "pro of non compilation" but "the cons of speed"
Sep 24 09:00:24 <raster> i'd rather take speed
Sep 24 09:00:33 <raster> i can always find a use for cycles
Sep 24 09:00:35 <raster> always...
Sep 24 09:00:50 <raster> and i'd rahter give those cycles to the user
Sep 24 09:00:57 <raster> and make them do osmething the user will like
Sep 24 09:01:04 <raster> rather than use them up in language choice
Sep 24 09:01:05 <raster> :)
Sep 24 09:01:06 <ronny> usualy my python code performs mostly equivalent to c
Sep 24 09:01:09 <raster> but hey - that's me
Sep 24 09:01:10 <raster> :)
Sep 24 09:01:24 <ronny> but thats cause im not writing numeric things
Sep 24 09:01:35 <becjone> raster:  yeah that because debuging with hard coded is easy for you
Sep 24 09:01:43 <ronny> and many things just call to c code
Sep 24 09:01:53 <raster> becjone: just a matter of experience
Sep 24 09:02:03 <raster> also debugging is easier in c
Sep 24 09:02:07 <raster> onc eu have python
Sep 24 09:02:12 <becjone> ronny: i agree for GUI python is enough
Sep 24 09:02:15 <raster> and its calling some pyhton bindings
Sep 24 09:02:20 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r9478feff4823 10/data/themes/ (10 files): use fontconfig instead of the embedded font (fixes chinese text)
Sep 24 09:02:20 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r5224f9fdb20d 10/data/fonts/DejaVuSans-Bold.ttf: remove font file
Sep 24 09:02:22 <raster> which then call some c libs..
Sep 24 09:02:27 <raster> finding the bug is just painful
Sep 24 09:02:34 <raster> compared to if it were all in c/c++
Sep 24 09:04:42 <recluze> hi all... anyone know how long the 2007.2 will be supported? Should we be in a hurry to move on to 2008.8 
Sep 24 09:05:34 <raster> its up to the community to support 2007
Sep 24 09:05:38 <raster> om no longer does
Sep 24 09:06:34 <recluze> oh
Sep 24 09:07:30 <ronny> raster: i never saw a usefull open-source c++ debugger - the pretty much all "break" on the stl
Sep 24 09:07:36 <recluze> shaz: are you listening? 
Sep 24 09:08:12 <raster> ronny: i dont touch c++ myself :) so gdb/valgrind/memprof/efence etc. tend to serve me nicely
Sep 24 09:08:13 <raster> :)
Sep 24 09:09:24 <beni_> raster, do you help in FSO?
Sep 24 09:09:52 <raster> yes
Sep 24 09:09:53 <raster> a bit
Sep 24 09:09:54 <becjone> ronny: i disagree, gdb may have some problem when watch complicated STL type but is useable
Sep 24 09:09:58 <raster> i've been providign some updates to efl
Sep 24 09:10:07 <raster> i'm preparing a bunch of ui stuff tho
Sep 24 09:10:11 <raster> thus my illume theme work
Sep 24 09:10:37 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-new-01.png
Sep 24 09:10:39 <raster> for example
Sep 24 09:10:41 <becjone> (ronny: i develop with kdevelop, qt4 for my work and have use it sevral time)
Sep 24 09:10:45 <raster> working on it
Sep 24 09:10:49 <raster> ignore the clock and bg
Sep 24 09:10:51 <raster> just a test app
Sep 24 09:10:58 <raster> keyboard being fixed up
Sep 24 09:12:27 <beni_> more and more i think FSO will be the better distribution.
Sep 24 09:14:12 <raster> it needs soem work
Sep 24 09:14:18 <raster> espec ialyl the framework stuff
Sep 24 09:14:29 <raster> but i think it shoudl be better as its likely going to be useful
Sep 24 09:14:40 <raster> and driven by what community and users want
Sep 24 09:14:55 <raster> and the day it isnt - another distor will take its place to be sure
Sep 24 09:15:23 <raster> i've been giving the illume keyboard a run for its money yesterday trynig to type up whole paragraphcs of stuff
Sep 24 09:15:32 <raster> it's now quite usable 
Sep 24 09:15:37 <raster> i have some things to improve
Sep 24 09:19:40 <anno^da_> raster: It looks nice.
Sep 24 09:23:15 <shaz> recluze; 2008.8 is messy yet but if it gets stable and FR can run it at the speed of 2007.2 than I have no problem using it
Sep 24 09:24:42 <hossi> I'v added and configured the wpa_supplicant.conf but when I run ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 it end with No lease, failing ?
Sep 24 09:27:39 <raster> anno^da_:  tnx
Sep 24 09:27:45 <raster> tho definitely not done
Sep 24 09:28:28 <recluze> hossi: have you tried statically assigning an essid? 
Sep 24 09:34:04 <hossi> recluze, hmm strange I managed to connet to an open wifi. Btw the adress to zecke's feeds?
Sep 24 09:35:36 <recluze> hossi: no idea about the feeds 
Sep 24 09:37:09 <RedFlash> why do I get edje_cc: Error. Unable to find image name "background.png".
Sep 24 09:37:26 <RedFlash> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Changing_wallpaper
Sep 24 09:37:27 <hossi> I'm talking about his package list
Sep 24 09:37:44 <recluze> i don't know . never used him 
Sep 24 10:06:39 <sakkara> hossi: try to turn of wifi in the settings, make "killall wpa_supplicant" a few times (until "no process killed") and then "ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0"
Sep 24 10:07:29 <sakkara> and look if essid and passphrase are right in the wpa_supplicant.conf is right 
Sep 24 10:07:52 <edje2> Hi, i have a freerunner and want to link a script to a clickable icon to run the script. how can i do that ?
Sep 24 10:08:38 <PBeck> hallo
Sep 24 10:09:49 <beni_> hallo
Sep 24 10:11:31 <hossi> sakkara, still get the same message :/
Sep 24 10:13:28 <sakkara> hossi: strange...
Sep 24 10:14:23 <sakkara> i also had problems with wifi in 2008.8, the driver seems to be bad
Sep 24 10:15:08 <sakkara> now i have FDOM (2008.8 with fixes and programs) and it works quite well...
Sep 24 10:22:38 <becjone> edje2: maybe some of the file in /usr/share/applications will inspire you 
Sep 24 10:22:49 <beni_> RedFlash: you need to put the file there
Sep 24 10:23:23 <ceda> becjone: /etc/version was what I was looking for, thanks!
Sep 24 10:23:37 <beni_> RedFlash:     *  scp your background.png image from host-pc to freerunner: 
Sep 24 10:23:37 <beni_> scp background.png moko:/usr/share/enlightenment/data/themes/illume/
Sep 24 10:24:35 <edje2> becjone: thanks, i will look in to that.  
Sep 24 10:26:01 <beni_> raster: maybe you want to write some short howto how to change the background in FSO, into http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Changing_wallpaper ?
Sep 24 10:26:07 <beni_> or is it the same procedure?
Sep 24 10:26:09 <beni_> for now?
Sep 24 10:32:50 <raster> beni_:  no... because fso is no better currently
Sep 24 10:32:56 <raster> i intend to change it
Sep 24 10:33:02 <raster> and then there will be zero need for a howto at all
Sep 24 10:33:16 <raster> howto's are silly when it should be a simple config option in the gui
Sep 24 10:33:25 <beni_> yes
Sep 24 10:33:27 <beni_> thats true
Sep 24 10:33:40 <beni_> didnt know that you want to make a gui
Sep 24 10:34:20 <raster> e alreadys has a gui
Sep 24 10:34:26 <raster> has a gui for theme selecting
Sep 24 10:34:30 <raster> for keybinding editing
Sep 24 10:34:35 <raster> inf act has a gui for tonnes of stuff
Sep 24 10:35:01 <raster> it has about 45+ config dialogs
Sep 24 10:43:03 <beni_> but the need reworking to fit on the screen?
Sep 24 10:43:15 <beni_> i remember, you told me
Sep 24 10:43:23 <beni_> sorry for asking such dumb questionsd.
Sep 24 10:47:05 <hossi> sakkara, what is FDOM?
Sep 24 10:54:26 <kth5> widrone: 2
Sep 24 10:54:28 <kth5> oops
Sep 24 10:54:40 <kth5> should have been /windows 2 X)
Sep 24 11:01:37 <widrone> Heh, made me wake up atleast ;)
Sep 24 11:04:48 <sakkara> hossi: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FDOM
Sep 24 11:08:42 <RedFlash> hi, how do I notify the author of a wiki or even change a wiki entry ?
Sep 24 11:08:44 <RedFlash> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Changing_wallpaper
Sep 24 11:09:01 <RedFlash> this wiki is not quite correct
Sep 24 11:09:28 <si-m1> if you register - you can be the author
Sep 24 11:09:45 <[df]> is FDOM equivalent to 2008.9 with extra apps installed?
Sep 24 11:11:02 <sakkara> [df]: i believe its 2008.8 with extra apps and fixes...
Sep 24 11:11:33 <[df]> but is there stuff there you can't get just by using opkg from within 2008?
Sep 24 11:11:44 * [df] is still very confused about which distro to run :(
Sep 24 11:12:12 <sakkara> you can use opkg without problem, its like 2008.8
Sep 24 11:12:27 <sakkara> its just "fuller"
Sep 24 11:12:34 <nyu> [df]: welcome to the club ;-)
Sep 24 11:12:35 <gregdude> hi, is any admins of the Projects.Openmoko.org here?
Sep 24 11:12:59 <sakkara> i tried 2007, 2008, qtopia, fdom, fso, ...
Sep 24 11:13:00 <Ainulindale> gregdude: roh <=
Sep 24 11:13:00 <[df]> so given that I've already installed a load of extra stuff on 2008.9, there's not much to be gained by switching to FDOM?
Sep 24 11:13:09 <gregdude> oh,  sure, thanks
Sep 24 11:13:59 <sakkara> [df]: well, i think the wifi driver is a bit better, but i dont know...
Sep 24 11:14:29 <sakkara> my wifi (nearly) doesnt crash anymore 
Sep 24 11:15:31 <[df]> I might try dual-booting qtopia
Sep 24 11:15:52 <sakkara> in my opinion the cutest and most usable "out-of-the-box" is qtiopa, but it lacks a good gps-app...
Sep 24 11:16:36 <[df]> when I install stuff using opkg, is that going onto the sd card?
Sep 24 11:17:16 <sakkara> normally not, its installed on the nand
Sep 24 11:17:36 <[df]> so what is the sd card used for if you're not dual booting?
Sep 24 11:17:49 <[df]> mine seems to have something called qtopia_db.sqlite on it, which I guess is the contacts db?
Sep 24 11:18:02 <mjr> for whatever you want?
Sep 24 11:18:25 <becjone> for video for example if you want to try it :D
Sep 24 11:18:26 <[df]> ah ok, so photos, music, videos or whatever
Sep 24 11:18:36 <mjr> you can install software packages in there too optionally, if you're running low on space, and then there's multimedia and map data and stuff
Sep 24 11:18:44 <sakkara> yes, everything you do on the card^^
Sep 24 11:18:55 <[df]> if the contacts db is on there though, will it be able to share that between the two distros if I dual-boot?
Sep 24 11:19:01 <sakkara> i save the gps maps and tracks there
Sep 24 11:19:23 <becjone> you could split it into partions...
Sep 24 11:19:40 <[df]> ah, I see
Sep 24 11:19:50 <[df]> then have one partition for the OS and one for general use
Sep 24 11:20:14 <beni_> tonight i had my phone in suspend. At morning the GUI was showing (i did nothing to wake it up) and battery was drained severely. Is there something known that wakes freerunner at 2008.9 up?
Sep 24 11:22:37 <becjone> beni_: suspend isn't working without bug :D (mine can't wake up or don't turn screen on :) )
Sep 24 11:23:08 <nyu> is the stock u-boot good enough for http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/ ?
Sep 24 11:23:10 <beni_> becjone: i had this issues with om2008.8
Sep 24 11:23:12 <nyu> on a FR
Sep 24 11:23:18 <beni_> but this works now reliably
Sep 24 11:23:34 <becjone> beni_: yeah i haven't search yet; no time
Sep 24 11:23:43 <beni_> nyu: i would flash it with a recent version unless you have made huge adjustments.
Sep 24 11:23:50 <nyu> beni_: okay
Sep 24 11:23:57 <beni_> nyu: in that case i would make a backup of the config first
Sep 24 11:24:23 <nyu> beni_: it's a stock setup
Sep 24 11:24:36 <beni_> nyu: which production date?
Sep 24 11:24:54 <nyu> beni_: no idea TBH.  it's a FR
Sep 24 11:24:57 <nyu> used to have om2007
Sep 24 11:25:06 <beni_> becjone: i will try that again tonight. lets see what it tells tomorrow.
Sep 24 11:25:18 <nyu> how do you update u-boot?
Sep 24 11:25:29 <beni_> nyu: if you look below the battery, there you can find the productin date
Sep 24 11:25:42 <beni_> nyu: you must flash it with dfu-util
Sep 24 11:25:52 <beni_> but thats very straightforward.
Sep 24 11:26:01 <nyu> beni_: yeah, but where do I get the images from?
Sep 24 11:26:39 <nyu> 20080603
Sep 24 11:27:16 <Daramarak> beni_ is the suspend still acting up?
Sep 24 11:28:09 <nyu> beni_: the instructions in www.openmoko.org suggest that I simply flash om2008 without touching the bootloader
Sep 24 11:29:28 <beni_> nyu: http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/gta02v5_and_up-u-boot.bin
Sep 24 11:29:30 <beni_> try that
Sep 24 11:29:45 <nyu> do I _really_ want to flash things from a directory named "daily" ?
Sep 24 11:29:45 <beni_> this is th latest uboot build from tonight
Sep 24 11:30:02 <beni_> as far as i know, uboot is not touched that often.
Sep 24 11:30:13 <nyu> can one recover from a broken uboot flash?
Sep 24 11:30:18 <[df]> nyu: the stock uboot worked fine for me with 2008.9
Sep 24 11:30:21 <beni_> some months ago i nearly flashed uboot daily and never got a problem
Sep 24 11:30:22 <nyu> without devel board
Sep 24 11:30:34 <beni_> Daramarak: yes, manual suspend works fine
Sep 24 11:30:36 <nyu> [df]: which production date?
Sep 24 11:30:43 <[df]> hang on...
Sep 24 11:31:11 <beni_> Daramarak: it just looks like if my FR woke up tonight and freezed somewhere in the morning
Sep 24 11:31:33 <beni_> Daramarak: it is okay that it didnt reenter suspend since i deactivated that.
Sep 24 11:31:54 <[df]> you can recover a broken uboot on the freerunner without a debug board, apparently
Sep 24 11:32:00 <[df]> there's a failsafe in NOR
Sep 24 11:32:09 <beni_> GPS is deactivated if the phone suspends, which is very.... not so nice if you do GPS tracking frequently. so i suspend manually.
Sep 24 11:32:12 <[df]> (I haven't tried though)
Sep 24 11:32:29 <[df]> production date is 2008 07 22
Sep 24 11:32:34 <beni_> [df]: its just booting into NOR and flashing NAND from there.
Sep 24 11:32:55 <[df]> ah right, which is how you flash it anyway?
Sep 24 11:33:02 <beni_> [df]: its no difference in flashing uboot, except that you must press different buttons to turn the device on.
Sep 24 11:33:07 <[df]> cool
Sep 24 11:33:28 <Daramarak> beni_ The FR is a very intelligent device, who knows what it is doing while you are asleep :)
Sep 24 11:34:01 <beni_> Daramarak: i hope nothing i am not aware of. but since it has no SIM card inserted and there is no WLAN around, it at least cant phone home.
Sep 24 11:34:07 <beni_> i hope so....
Sep 24 11:34:20 <beni_> maybe there is some sort of GPS-tunnel where it watches porn at night...
Sep 24 11:34:26 <nyu> [df]: kay, no reason to risk it..
Sep 24 11:35:56 <Daramarak> beni_: It hacks some emergency line, uses GPRS through it, and releases a DOS attack on M$
Sep 24 11:38:35 <becjone> Daramarak:  :D
Sep 24 11:38:53 <becjone> Daramarak:  so that is why the battry is out in the morning
Sep 24 11:39:38 * mwester-trip is impressed by the imagination of openmoko-ers
Sep 24 11:39:40 <SpeedEvil> Battery life is very much a work in progress. Suspend works for some people in some images on freerunner, leading to >24h suspend times. It looks plausible from various sources of information and testing that 3-5 hours of talk time, 20h of mp3 playing, and a week of standby should be possible.
Sep 24 11:40:15 * mwester-trip suspects that SpeedEvil has a large document of FAQ responses from which he can cut and paste ;) :D
Sep 24 11:40:25 <beni_> max_posedon: hes a bot i think
Sep 24 11:40:41 <beni_> :P
Sep 24 11:40:48 <SpeedEvil> beni_: How does that make you feel?
Sep 24 11:40:54 <mwester-trip> SpeedEvil: ~botsnack
Sep 24 11:40:56 <mwester-trip> :p
Sep 24 11:41:16 * SpeedEvil eats mwester-trip's sole.
Sep 24 11:41:17 <max_posedon> beni_, what you want from me?)
Sep 24 11:41:36 * mwester-trip looks at his damaged shoes...
Sep 24 11:41:40 <beni_> with suspend i got about 3 days recently, but that was at FSO
Sep 24 11:41:46 <beni_> max_posedon: sorry, meant mwester
Sep 24 11:41:53 <beni_> just typed m<tab>
Sep 24 11:42:25 <nyu> SpeedEvil: Is it because 3 5 hours of talk time 20h of mp3 playing and a week of standby should be possible that you came to me?
Sep 24 11:43:45 <becjone> for me it's strange, i did use FDOM (so Om2008.8) for a week without any problem, but now it won't goes to sleep properly
Sep 24 11:45:14 <SpeedEvil> Much of the battery stuff is not finished yet.
Sep 24 11:45:39 * SpeedEvil looks at the king honey-producing-insect.
Sep 24 11:46:12 <beni_> is there a usable mediaplayer (for listening to mp3) available yet?
Sep 24 11:47:10 * BDo is about to think that ogg playback should be easier
Sep 24 11:47:35 <SpeedEvil> ogg IIRC takes more CPU
Sep 24 11:47:44 <SpeedEvil> mp3 takes 18% of GTA01 at minimum for 128K
Sep 24 11:49:19 <OdyX> beni_: mplayer ...
Sep 24 11:49:34 <ptitjes> hi
Sep 24 11:50:06 <L84supper> anyone know where the freerunner schematic and pcb layout files are hosted?  all I found were the schematic pdf's and CAD for the enclosure
Sep 24 11:50:38 <SpeedEvil> I don't think they are available.
Sep 24 11:50:47 <SpeedEvil> Only the PDF and CAD
Sep 24 11:50:52 <SpeedEvil> I'd like to be wrong.
Sep 24 11:51:29 <L84supper> so I'd have to recapture and do a new layout from scratch?
Sep 24 11:52:01 <ptitjes> I've finally built asu image for om-gta01 and flashed my qemu with it
Sep 24 11:52:09 <ptitjes> However the kernel don't start
Sep 24 11:52:15 <SpeedEvil> l: there may also be copyright issues with that. I'm unsure.
Sep 24 11:53:05 <L84supper> maybe I'll have to start an OpenerMoko project  ?
Sep 24 11:53:11 <ptitjes> I've got the correct NAND boot menu but when I select "Boot", it checks the kernel image (ok) then writes "Loading kernel image" and reboots
Sep 24 11:53:15 <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
Sep 24 11:53:33 <SpeedEvil> l: have you done any electtronics design before?
Sep 24 11:53:39 <L84supper> oh well, too good to be true
Sep 24 11:53:48 <L84supper> 30+ years
Sep 24 11:53:57 <SpeedEvil> L84supper: bga/... ?
Sep 24 11:54:11 <SpeedEvil> L84supper: one problem may be getting the bits.
Sep 24 11:54:20 <L84supper> yup bga, and tab bonding
Sep 24 11:55:28 <SpeedEvil> Need to get to a fair number to approach the cost of the released device of course.
Sep 24 11:55:48 <L84supper> maybe integrate http://beagleboard.org/  design into openermoko or use freescale imx, would make the graphics issues easier
Sep 24 11:57:12 <SpeedEvil> Gets really ratehr complex once you get away from 'wouldn't it be nice' type designs :)
Sep 24 11:57:21 <becjone> beni_: for a mediplayer you could try pythm who used mplayer in the background
Sep 24 11:57:29 <L84supper> China sells over 8 million cell phones per month, India not far behind
Sep 24 11:57:44 <becjone> beni_: it's just slow for some manipulation but usable even with finger
Sep 24 12:02:31 <ptitjes> does someone had this problem too ?
Sep 24 12:02:58 <beni_> becjone: is there some ipkg? i dont want to compile this manually this time.
Sep 24 12:04:01 <ptitjes> is there a mean to get more informations about the failure of the kernel loading ????
Sep 24 12:04:23 <beni_> becjone: found it
Sep 24 12:07:31 <beni_> becjone: pythm aborts with error
Sep 24 12:07:32 <beni_> :(
Sep 24 12:07:35 <becjone> ptitjes: yes if you have a debug board
Sep 24 12:07:39 <beni_> NameError: name 'init' is not defined
Sep 24 12:07:47 <becjone> beni_: change rep to it
Sep 24 12:08:03 <becjone> beni_: and witch version did you tried ?
Sep 24 12:08:16 <becjone> ooops which
Sep 24 12:09:21 <becjone> beni_: i think i installed from http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/390/pythm_0.5_armv4t.ipk
Sep 24 12:10:27 <beni_> becjone: opkg install http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/390/pythm_0.5_armv4t.ipk
Sep 24 12:10:31 <beni_> thats the line
Sep 24 12:10:42 <beni_> the same you got
Sep 24 12:11:19 <becjone> strange
Sep 24 12:11:25 <beni_> looks like some dependancy problem
Sep 24 12:11:33 <beni_> do i need some libs?
Sep 24 12:11:48 <becjone> beni_: i dont remember if i did tried something manualy
Sep 24 12:25:11 <Dave> mwester :)
Sep 24 12:26:43 <beni_> hm, the topic is fairly outdated.
Sep 24 12:26:49 <beni_> GPS is solved long ago
Sep 24 12:27:06 <beni_> and Keyboard should be also well known since short after 2008.8 release
Sep 24 12:27:29 <max_posedon> but new users still recive FR with 2007)
Sep 24 12:27:51 <beni_> ah really? thought 2008 will be shipped now.
Sep 24 12:29:53 <Dave> Wouldn't it be great if nothing shipped with the freerunner? :P
Sep 24 12:31:39 <max_posedon> No, it is bad when you can't test device in shop.
Sep 24 12:32:17 <leinir> ...where did you find a freerunner in a shop? ;)
Sep 24 12:33:34 <max_posedon> in Poland, in official distibutor, ( http://www.mobilesolutions.pl/ ) 
Sep 24 12:33:56 <max_posedon> extualy, I even come from Belarus, to Poland and buy device there.
Sep 24 12:35:28 <Dave> naughty leinirs
Sep 24 12:35:56 <Dave> we likeses them >:)
Sep 24 12:36:49 <Tig|> beni_: the keyboard might be known to most of us on here but we still get people coming in and asking about the pin prompt :)
Sep 24 12:36:54 <leinir> *giggles* :)
Sep 24 12:46:44 <jitu3485> hi, do openmoko platform have support for inotify-tools, 
Sep 24 12:48:50 <lindi-> jitu3485: inotify is nothing hardware related i think
Sep 24 12:49:09 <jitu3485> lindi-, yes
Sep 24 12:49:56 <ceda> which browser do you guys use on your phones?
Sep 24 12:50:07 <bumbl> minimo
Sep 24 12:50:19 <beni_> jitu3485: inotify is kernel stuff and included afaik
Sep 24 12:50:27 <ceda> I've got a minimo_0.02+cvs20070626-r0_armv4t.ipk
Sep 24 12:50:33 <ceda> bumbl: that one? ^
Sep 24 12:50:33 <beni_> try something with pythons inotify bindings
Sep 24 12:50:57 <bumbl> ceda: yeah could be that one
Sep 24 12:51:23 <ceda> bumbl: opkg list_installed | grep minimo would tell you which version you're using
Sep 24 12:51:29 <ceda> or tell me :)
Sep 24 12:52:01 <bumbl> ceda: i know
Sep 24 12:52:17 <bumbl> but i am locally seperated from my freerunner at the moment
Sep 24 12:53:09 <ceda> Alignment trap: starling (1932) PC=0x409e9884 Instr=0x15843000 Address=0xbef691f3 FSR 0x813
Sep 24 12:53:17 * raster ran away with bumbl's FR
Sep 24 12:54:23 <bumbl> rzr:
Sep 24 12:54:27 <bumbl> ah damn
Sep 24 12:54:31 <bumbl> raster: :D
Sep 24 12:54:37 <rzr> bumbl: you're welcome
Sep 24 12:54:44 <bumbl> sorry rzr 
Sep 24 12:55:05 * rzr is about to sumbit a patch for opkg, where to do this ? in some mailing list ?
Sep 24 12:55:33 <bumbl> raster: and how is illume doing? have you updated your enlightenment.org images?
Sep 24 12:55:46 <bumbl> rzr: docs.openmoko.org
Sep 24 12:55:48 <bumbl> i think
Sep 24 12:56:02 <bumbl> or devel mailinglist
Sep 24 12:56:33 <bumbl> but i think i have read that no one is maintaining opkg at the moment
Sep 24 12:57:15 <raster> bumbl: ummm illume is ok
Sep 24 12:57:20 <Dave> bumble :)
Sep 24 12:57:20 <raster> its got a little bit of work done
Sep 24 12:57:28 <raster> not much - been busy with other things
Sep 24 12:57:30 <Dave> Hello raster :)
Sep 24 12:57:47 <rzr> bumbl: ok will do
Sep 24 12:57:56 <bumbl> Davey
Sep 24 12:58:48 <raster> Dave:  moo
Sep 24 12:58:54 <cga> ciao folks. Dave not included
Sep 24 13:00:50 * cga has got to study some workflows for a job interview and has no will to do it :|
Sep 24 13:01:05 <bumbl> cga: think of the money
Sep 24 13:01:10 <Dave> MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sep 24 13:01:11 <cga> eh =)
Sep 24 13:01:30 <Dave> money flows, then disappears in the US, apparently.
Sep 24 13:01:43 <Dave> shitty economy :D
Sep 24 13:02:13 <cga> bumbl: not only the money i think (improvement of 300€, clean. already taxed) i think also that with this job i'll switch from windows to linux. but today i'm really down.
Sep 24 13:02:57 <bumbl> Dave: money usally disappears in switzerland :p
Sep 24 13:03:03 <RedFlash> lol
Sep 24 13:03:08 <cga> wasn't that Cayman Islands?
Sep 24 13:03:27 <bumbl> yeah cayan islands too
Sep 24 13:03:45 <bumbl> *cayman
Sep 24 13:04:30 <bumbl> cga: have a cup of nice Italian coffee and everything will be ok
Sep 24 13:04:41 <cga> good idea. i'll make it white cofee
Sep 24 13:04:44 <cga> *coffee
Sep 24 13:05:07 <raster> Dave: shitty profiteering wallstreet fat cats and government officials profiting from eachothers back-scratching
Sep 24 13:05:19 <cga> bumbl: i also have lighted a very good incense that smells really nice.
Sep 24 13:05:32 <cga> raster: are you in oz atm?
Sep 24 13:05:36 <rooly> i'm glad i live in louisiana
Sep 24 13:05:43 <raster> cga:  yups
Sep 24 13:05:44 <rooly> we don't care so much about money
Sep 24 13:06:00 <cga> raster: can you find me a job and a skilled migration visa? :P
Sep 24 13:06:13 <raster> jbos here?
Sep 24 13:06:15 * rooly heads out to school
Sep 24 13:06:17 * cga wants to emigrate to oz
Sep 24 13:06:17 <raster> u wnt to be an admin?
Sep 24 13:06:24 <cga> would be cool
Sep 24 13:06:30 <raster> oz is a baby-sitter country
Sep 24 13:06:36 <raster> u get jobs baby-sitting servers
Sep 24 13:06:37 <cga> ?
Sep 24 13:06:38 <raster> not much else
Sep 24 13:06:41 <cga> arf
Sep 24 13:06:43 <cga> that sucks
Sep 24 13:06:46 <raster> (sys admin)
Sep 24 13:07:19 <cga> well i can do other things like help desk and operation or application management.
Sep 24 13:07:40 <raster> probably have jobs for that
Sep 24 13:07:51 <raster> not that i know too much
Sep 24 13:08:01 <cga> next job will eventually (if tomorrow i manage to pass the last interview) be operation on *nix back-ends
Sep 24 13:08:03 <raster> i dont pay attention to the job market here beyond snickering at it every now and again
Sep 24 13:08:29 <cga> eh i understand
Sep 24 13:09:28 <bumbl> raster: you get job offers and don't have to apply i think?
Sep 24 13:09:30 <cga> raster: sorry for asking but... did you leave japan for good?
Sep 24 13:10:30 <raster> bumbl:  kind of
Sep 24 13:10:50 <raster> or more - i get them.. but eith the exception of 1 - from everywhere else in the world
Sep 24 13:10:52 <raster> not .au
Sep 24 13:10:53 <raster> :)
Sep 24 13:11:02 <raster> cga:  yup. moved out. why?
Sep 24 13:11:43 <cga> raster: just out of curiosity
Sep 24 13:11:58 <raster> "been there. done that"
Sep 24 13:12:03 <cga> eh
Sep 24 13:13:16 <bumbl> Dave: why are you not in openmoko-offtopic any more?
Sep 24 13:43:13 <nyu> my SD card socket seems broken
Sep 24 13:43:19 <nyu> I push it down, and it won't stay
Sep 24 13:43:25 <nyu> any idea what to do
Sep 24 13:43:31 <kth5> tape? :)
Sep 24 13:43:32 <swc|666> u have to bend the hinges
Sep 24 13:43:45 <swc|666> *carefully*
Sep 24 13:43:46 <nyu> swc|666: inwards or outwards?
Sep 24 13:43:50 <swc|666> in
Sep 24 13:44:12 <swc|666> i bent one of mine
Sep 24 13:44:16 <swc|666> works fine now
Sep 24 13:44:27 <nyu> you mean the ones at the end of the platform?
Sep 24 13:44:40 <swc|666> the piece that pops up
Sep 24 13:44:55 <swc|666> there are grooves on the edges that fasten
Sep 24 13:45:18 <nyu> is there any picture of that?
Sep 24 13:45:29 <swc|666> dunno
Sep 24 13:45:36 <nyu> ah, finally
Sep 24 13:45:43 <swc|666> just look at it without the card in it 
Sep 24 13:57:57 <rzr> bumbl: if it matters my opkg patch https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2033
Sep 24 14:00:12 <warlock> re
Sep 24 14:01:12 <bumbl> rzr: thank you but I don't have access to openmoko's svn repo
Sep 24 14:01:56 <rzr> bumbl: ok nevermind someone will notice it soon or later :)
Sep 24 14:02:13 <bumbl> yes I hope so
Sep 24 14:40:41 <Dave> It's quiet... too quiet...
Sep 24 14:40:50 <raster> shhhhh!
Sep 24 15:01:42 <fredrin>   /msg nickserv identify eldrehist
Sep 24 15:01:47 <fredrin> aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Sep 24 15:01:49 <fredrin> fuck
Sep 24 15:02:22 <fredrin> stupid space
Sep 24 15:03:17 <ieatlint> hey, that's not nice, i don't call your friends stupid
Sep 24 15:03:20 <Dave> :P
Sep 24 15:03:27 <Dave> stupid lint
Sep 24 15:03:36 <max_posedon> fredrin, actualy !two! stupid spaces)
Sep 24 15:03:49 <Dave> apt eyeopener ieatlint
Sep 24 15:03:52 <Dave> ;p
Sep 24 15:04:13 <fredrin> max_posedon: two times more n00bish then :p
Sep 24 15:04:36 <Dave> So has anybody compiled wesnoth yet? :p
Sep 24 15:04:51 <fredrin> what's that?
Sep 24 15:06:05 <bumbl> Dave: yes
Sep 24 15:06:12 <bumbl> search the mailinglist
Sep 24 15:07:23 <Dave> uggh :p
Sep 24 15:08:30 <zash> google [ wesnoth site:lists.openmoko.org ]
Sep 24 15:10:11 <bumbl> Dave: I would do that for you
Sep 24 15:10:22 <bumbl> but I hate using elinks for research work
Sep 24 15:15:00 <Dave> :P
Sep 24 15:15:16 <Dave> zash it!
Sep 24 15:17:59 <wurp2|working> Wesnoth on my neo; my kids will finally think I'm cool.
Sep 24 15:18:04 <wurp2|working> For about an hour.
Sep 24 15:18:28 <nyu> heh
Sep 24 15:19:19 <bumbl> hehe
Sep 24 15:19:30 <kth5> gens is way cooler :)
Sep 24 15:19:38 <bumbl> i haven't played weshnot
Sep 24 15:19:47 <kth5> with a bluetooth ps3 pad the neo rocks :P
Sep 24 15:20:01 <bumbl> i don't even spell it correct 
Sep 24 15:20:12 <bumbl> but freeciv on the neo would be cool
Sep 24 15:20:33 <wurp2|working> kth5: What programs will work off the bt ps3 pad?
Sep 24 15:21:19 <bumbl> wurp2|working: anything i think
Sep 24 15:21:40 <bumbl> you just have to map the ps3 buttons to keyboard buttons
Sep 24 15:22:27 <Dave> wurp2|wesnoth
Sep 24 15:24:21 <kth5> wurp2|working: i use snes9x and am curently fiddling with gens
Sep 24 15:24:29 <wurp2|working> bumbl: I guess I have to get one now.  I assume the driver is for debian?
Sep 24 15:24:38 <kth5> wurp2|working: http://www.gens.ws
Sep 24 15:24:47 <wurp2|working> Dave: I played a little wesnoth, but my kids got hooked on it
Sep 24 15:24:54 <wurp2|working> Actually, they like making maps more than playing
Sep 24 15:25:30 <wurp2|working> kth5: Very nice!
Sep 24 15:28:17 <Dave> oh really? :p
Sep 24 15:28:24 <Dave> cute
Sep 24 15:28:30 <Dave> wurp, I wanted to try it on the freerunner
Sep 24 15:28:40 <Dave> but I wasn't sure if it was going to be a time blackhole
Sep 24 15:29:13 <wurp2|working> It's turn based, so you can just stop playing if interrupted
Sep 24 15:29:28 <wurp2|working> Each game was maybe 20 min iirc
Sep 24 15:29:29 <Dave> I was more referring to the process of setting it up for/on the freerunner :P
Sep 24 15:29:45 <Dave> Not the actual gameplay, but thanks ;)
Sep 24 15:31:44 <nyu> yay, hello debian world
Sep 24 15:31:57 <izzyb> Does anyone here actually use the FR as their main cell phone?
Sep 24 15:32:07 <max_posedon> I'am
Sep 24 15:32:41 <[df]> I do, as of yesterday
Sep 24 15:32:45 <izzyb> I can't seem to get mine to work reliably.  I managed to make 2 test calls to it yesterday but again this morning it wont make or recieve calls
Sep 24 15:32:48 <[df]> time will tell if it lasts
Sep 24 15:33:10 <izzyb> Is there something I'm doing wrong?  I'm running Fdom atm
Sep 24 15:33:38 <Daramarak> Is the FR able to work as a reliable alarmclock now?
Sep 24 15:34:05 <Dave> woooooooo
Sep 24 15:34:10 <raster> Daramarak: nup.
Sep 24 15:34:16 <max_posedon> izzyb, I'am using qtopia-4.3.3-snapshot
Sep 24 15:34:18 <raster> well not in fso
Sep 24 15:34:21 <raster> or asu
Sep 24 15:34:23 <raster> "at" is brokne
Sep 24 15:34:28 <raster> and doesnt grock rtc wakes
Sep 24 15:34:46 <max_posedon> I haven't any problems, except with not latin characters.
Sep 24 15:34:49 <[df]> max_posedon: is audio quality ok in qtopia?
Sep 24 15:34:51 <raster> i wrote a rtc-aware replacement that uses dbus as the api
Sep 24 15:34:53 <raster> it works
Sep 24 15:35:01 <wurp2|working> Dave: heh
Sep 24 15:35:05 <raster> except ion fso i know that when i suspend.. my moko wotn wake from suspend
Sep 24 15:35:09 <raster> not even with power button
Sep 24 15:35:20 <max_posedon> [df], you mean "echo" problem? - fixed in latest 4.3.3-snaphot
Sep 24 15:35:21 <raster> so if it cant do that.. i woudlnt trust it for an alarm
Sep 24 15:35:28 <raster> in fact i wrote an alarm clock app - which si why i needed it
Sep 24 15:35:43 <Dave> wurp, I take it that you have yet to attempt thast
Sep 24 15:35:44 <[df]> max_posedon: someone said it suffered from gsm buzz as well I believe
Sep 24 15:35:56 <wurp2|working> Dave: Yeah, I just now found out that it existed :-)
Sep 24 15:36:06 <shoragan> raster, which kernel?
Sep 24 15:36:06 <Dave> Congratulations!
Sep 24 15:36:10 <Daramarak> raster:To bad, that is maybe the most important task of my current phone :)
Sep 24 15:36:21 <wurp2|working> Dave: I am running qtopia right now.  I plan to install debian once I get an 8gb card
Sep 24 15:36:22 <max_posedon> [df], I haven't this problems, as I know it was fixed.
Sep 24 15:36:24 <shoragan> for the last milestone andy's branch had broken suspend, stable was ok
Sep 24 15:36:27 <Dave> Raster, your clock app better not suck as much as the qtopia one.
Sep 24 15:36:31 <nyu> izzyb: I do
Sep 24 15:36:34 <Dave> heh
Sep 24 15:36:53 <nyu> izzyb: but I just installed debian, so this might change ;-)
Sep 24 15:36:54 <[df]> I think I'll have to give qtopia a try
Sep 24 15:37:02 <raster> Dave: dude... u'd like it
Sep 24 15:37:03 <raster> :)
Sep 24 15:37:05 <nyu> qtopia looks stable
Sep 24 15:37:08 <Dave> Good shit!
Sep 24 15:37:12 <Dave> :)
Sep 24 15:37:15 * raster wonders if he should do some videos of it...
Sep 24 15:37:17 <wurp2|working> nyu: qtopia has been stable for me
Sep 24 15:37:33 <Dave> There is always much anticipation and excitement surrounding raster's releases.
Sep 24 15:37:58 <shoragan> raster, where do you have the sources for your at replacement?
Sep 24 15:38:17 <nyu> debian uses FSO stack, right?
Sep 24 15:38:17 <raster> shoragan:  in e's svn
Sep 24 15:38:25 <raster> shoragan: TMP/st/alarm/
Sep 24 15:38:26 <shoragan> k
Sep 24 15:38:28 <Dave> nice
Sep 24 15:38:29 <raster> i called it "wake"
Sep 24 15:38:31 <raster> waked
Sep 24 15:38:35 <Dave> har
Sep 24 15:38:35 <nyu> I can't dial using that.  when I press '9' I get two of them
Sep 24 15:38:38 <raster> it runs as the user not root so its a session bus
Sep 24 15:38:45 <Dave> ooh la la
Sep 24 15:38:50 <raster> it unfortunatelyt has no way to gain root privde to do rtc stuff
Sep 24 15:38:57 <raster> so it works only because oe/om uses root
Sep 24 15:38:59 <Dave> oh well, it's still cool
Sep 24 15:39:02 <raster> but i can fix that
Sep 24 15:39:57 * sicu convinces raster to do some videos of it...
Sep 24 15:40:07 <sylar91> hi all, is there a method to edit the devtools menu?
Sep 24 15:40:07 <wurp2|working> nyu: You get two 9s when you press 9 in zhone?
Sep 24 15:40:13 <Dave> more freerunner porn?
Sep 24 15:40:37 <Dave> haha, wurp, that sounds awesomely annoying :D
Sep 24 15:40:54 <shoragan> raster, if you use the frameworkd, you can set the rtc-wakeup via odeviced
Sep 24 15:41:10 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03tick * r4666 10/trunk/feeds/community-repository/file-index.txt: update omview to version 28
Sep 24 15:41:10 <Dave> Raster's a rebel :p
Sep 24 15:41:21 <wurp2|working> Dave: for maximum annoyance, it should only happen 80% of the time
Sep 24 15:41:29 <Dave> hahaha oh god
Sep 24 15:41:34 <Dave> Even more annoying!
Sep 24 15:41:47 <wurp2|working> If it happens 100% of the time people will give up & use something else
Sep 24 15:41:49 <Dave> gawd, that takes me back to my OS class
Sep 24 15:41:56 <wurp2|working> 80% and you can string them along for ages
Sep 24 15:42:00 <nyu> wurp2|working: yep
Sep 24 15:42:09 <wurp2|working> nyu: :-(
Sep 24 15:42:18 <wurp2|working> fso has been nothing but good for me
Sep 24 15:42:22 <wurp2|working> But I've only run ms 1 :-)
Sep 24 15:42:23 <Dave> where we'd get a DIFFERENT trap frame error, only 60% of the time for one and 40% of the time for the other
Sep 24 15:42:28 <Dave> and they overlapped
Sep 24 15:42:29 <Dave> haha
Sep 24 15:42:47 <wurp2|working> Those are the funnest
Sep 24 15:42:51 <Dave> wurp, I was about to say...
Sep 24 15:42:58 <Dave> You couldn't be running FSOv3 then :P
Sep 24 15:43:07 <Dave> You would have surely had more complaints.
Sep 24 15:43:08 <Dave> ;)
Sep 24 15:43:20 <wurp2|working> Dave: No, I always wait until I see reports good or bad on the release
Sep 24 15:43:31 <Dave> And what was your opinion of this release?
Sep 24 15:43:33 <wurp2|working> And I saw almost nothing but bad re: ms 3 :-(
Sep 24 15:43:40 <Dave> heh, yeah
Sep 24 15:43:41 <Dave> :P
Sep 24 15:43:52 <wurp2|working> I have no personal opinion.  It sounded like a waste of time
Sep 24 15:43:56 <Dave> Meanwhile, we've got mickeyl screaming about how awesome the API is...
Sep 24 15:44:01 <Dave> yep
Sep 24 15:44:03 <wurp2|working> And not one I could do when I was supposed to be working, like chatting here is
Sep 24 15:44:04 <mickey|tw> well
Sep 24 15:44:07 <Dave> haha
Sep 24 15:44:11 <mickey|tw> will no longer release ui images
Sep 24 15:44:12 <Dave> rut roh
Sep 24 15:44:13 <wurp2|working> The api is awesome
Sep 24 15:44:17 <mickey|tw> that's what you gte
Sep 24 15:44:21 <Dave> hahaha
Sep 24 15:44:22 <mickey|tw> console rockz
Sep 24 15:44:25 <Dave> gee, thanks a lot :P
Sep 24 15:44:25 <wurp2|working> mickey|tw: :-(
Sep 24 15:44:33 <mickey|tw> it's much better
Sep 24 15:44:38 <wurp2|working> quickdev is working on an FSO client
Sep 24 15:44:38 <mickey|tw> it's a chance to leverage your own creativity
Sep 24 15:44:42 <mickey|tw> building a platform
Sep 24 15:44:46 <raster> shoragan: i just ioctl'd /dev/rtc :)
Sep 24 15:44:47 <mickey|tw> not imposing our idea of UI
Sep 24 15:44:52 <raster> but thats not really the problem
Sep 24 15:44:56 <alphaone> You guys need to start getting shr in a usable shape ;-)
Sep 24 15:44:58 <raster> the problem is it doesnt wake up at all after suspend
Sep 24 15:45:11 <wurp2|working> And dialer3 is a fso gui that's mostly done :-/
Sep 24 15:45:14 <shoragan> raster, some kernels have broken resume
Sep 24 15:45:16 <Dave> MOSTLY
Sep 24 15:45:23 <Dave> ¬_¬
Sep 24 15:45:37 <Dave> You're not fooling anyone, Ainulindale :p
Sep 24 15:45:45 <shoragan> but others do work ;)
Sep 24 15:45:46 <wurp2|working> alphaone: You sound as if you're volunteering!
Sep 24 15:45:50 <alphaone> wurp2|working: What were the complaints wrt ms3?
Sep 24 15:45:50 <Dave> alphaone, I agree.
Sep 24 15:45:54 <Dave> wurp, hahaha
Sep 24 15:45:59 <Dave> Alphaone, quick, it's a trap!
Sep 24 15:46:10 <raster> shoragan:  it worked with asu...
Sep 24 15:46:12 <alphaone> wurp2|working: Haha, no I'll stay below my dbus blanket
Sep 24 15:46:17 <raster> so it must be a new thing inf fso...
Sep 24 15:46:18 <wurp2|working> alphaone: smses never came in, or took hours to be noticed
Sep 24 15:46:22 <Dave> heehee
Sep 24 15:46:22 <alphaone> Still some things to do in ogsmd and ogpsd
Sep 24 15:46:38 <shoragan> raster, are you sure it was the same kernel?
Sep 24 15:46:46 <alphaone> wurp2|working: Oh
Sep 24 15:47:05 <alphaone> If it helps we should support UCS2 completely soon
Sep 24 15:47:21 <Dave> hah
Sep 24 15:47:29 <shoragan> andy said resume stability is influenced by having some printk's
Sep 24 15:47:36 <shoragan> or leaving them out :/
Sep 24 15:47:41 <Dave> strange
Sep 24 15:47:44 <wurp2|working> shoragan: awesome
Sep 24 15:47:48 <wurp2|working> shoragan: heisenbug
Sep 24 15:47:58 <shoragan> yep
Sep 24 15:48:23 <Dave> The fact that you know about them altered the state of the universe.
Sep 24 15:49:13 <wurp2|working> alphaone: Our hang up appears to just be in the gui
Sep 24 15:49:33 <shoragan> wurp2|working, can you reproduce it?
Sep 24 15:49:34 <alphaone> wurp2|working: ?
Sep 24 15:50:13 <wurp2|working> And the fact that either each person that works on it wants to rewrite parts of it, or the underlying bits change faster than shr people change dialer3 :-(
Sep 24 15:50:26 <Dave> yeah
Sep 24 15:50:29 <wurp2|working> alphaone: Just getting someone to do work in the gui faster than other things change
Sep 24 15:50:32 <Dave> it totally sounds like gang/turf wars to me
Sep 24 15:50:37 <mickey|tw> sorry, but's that untrue
Sep 24 15:50:45 <Dave> mickeyl?
Sep 24 15:50:46 <mickey|tw> OTAPI has been pretty stable since months
Sep 24 15:50:50 <wurp2|working> mickey|tw: I'm talking about changes to lfg
Sep 24 15:50:53 <mickey|tw> with only light changes
Sep 24 15:50:53 <wurp2|working> mickey|tw: not to the api
Sep 24 15:51:03 <mickey|tw> lg?
Sep 24 15:51:04 <alphaone> lfg?
Sep 24 15:51:14 <wurp2|working> libframework-glib
Sep 24 15:51:21 <alphaone> ah
Sep 24 15:51:23 <Dave> wurp, you've started a feeding frenzy!
Sep 24 15:51:42 <wurp2|working> The problem is not even that it's changing quickly
Sep 24 15:51:43 <mickey|tw> mmh k, nm then
Sep 24 15:51:53 <wurp2|working> The problem is that dev work on dialer3 is happening so slowly
Sep 24 15:52:03 <wurp2|working> Which I'm not complianing about, just stating
Sep 24 15:52:13 <wurp2|working> Since I've done essentially nothing on shr myself :-(
Sep 24 15:52:41 <Dave> kd8ikt
Sep 24 15:52:55 <Dave> poor wurp
Sep 24 15:52:55 <alphaone> wurp2|working: I see
Sep 24 15:52:56 <raster> shoragan:  no idea - different build trees entirely
Sep 24 15:53:45 <alphaone> Well, getting gobject stuff right can be tricky
Sep 24 15:54:22 <shoragan> raster, we'll try the current kernel today or tomorrow, hopefully i can then give you a working revision
Sep 24 15:57:34 <Dave> Torikun
Sep 24 15:57:58 <raster> shoragan:  i will. this is from a few days back
Sep 24 15:58:01 <raster> (kernel)
Sep 24 15:58:13 <Torikun> dave!
Sep 24 15:58:30 <Dave> YES
Sep 24 15:58:44 <Dave> Raster, evidently, you have to get with the times!
Sep 24 15:59:59 <MnemonicPunk> Can you include a graphics driver for HTC Magician? ;p *runs*
Sep 24 16:00:21 <alphaone> raster: what's your wakeup service called?
Sep 24 16:00:42 <Dave> waked :p
Sep 24 16:00:54 <alphaone> haha
Sep 24 16:01:01 <raster> alphaone:  wake
Sep 24 16:01:02 <raster> :)
Sep 24 16:01:12 <alphaone> It doesn't start with e :-)
Sep 24 16:01:13 <raster> wel wake is a cmd-line client that talks dbus to waked
Sep 24 16:01:16 <raster> its very similar to at
Sep 24 16:01:22 <raster> u can use dbus directly too
Sep 24 16:01:28 <alphaone> okay, nice
Sep 24 16:01:33 <Dave> sounds like my cow program as well
Sep 24 16:01:42 <Dave> moo communicates with mood
Sep 24 16:01:48 <raster> the only bit i cant "prove" works right now is the rtc wakeup
Sep 24 16:01:48 <alphaone> We talked about requirements for a wakup / alarm API today
Sep 24 16:01:55 <raster> as my moko dont wake up at all
Sep 24 16:02:01 <Dave> :(
Sep 24 16:02:04 <raster> too late
Sep 24 16:02:06 <raster> already did it
Sep 24 16:02:06 <raster> :)
Sep 24 16:02:06 <Dave> He's dead, Jim
Sep 24 16:02:19 <alphaone> I'll post something about it soon on fso-standards and om-devel
Sep 24 16:02:24 <alphaone> raster: Heh :-)
Sep 24 16:02:30 <raster> its simple
Sep 24 16:02:33 <raster> got Add, Del and List
Sep 24 16:02:36 <raster> u get a job id # back
Sep 24 16:02:39 <raster> 0 == invalid
Sep 24 16:02:45 <raster> time is a 64bit uint
Sep 24 16:02:51 <raster> (seconds sinc jan 1 1970)
Sep 24 16:02:56 <raster> tfor when to shcedule the job
Sep 24 16:03:06 <alphaone> Well, we have something a bit different
Sep 24 16:03:13 <alphaone> Maybe you can comment
Sep 24 16:03:14 <raster> otherwis eu get a priority (unit32) and flags (string) whihc do nothing right now
Sep 24 16:03:22 <raster> and then u provide the content of a shell script to be run
Sep 24 16:03:26 <raster> as a string
Sep 24 16:03:45 <raster> ie "#!/bin/sh\nmy-cmd"
Sep 24 16:07:57 <Dave> raster, teach us your weirding way :)
Sep 24 16:22:32 <raster> and...
Sep 24 16:22:35 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-01.ogg
Sep 24 16:22:37 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-02.ogg
Sep 24 16:22:38 <wurp2|working> lpotter: btw, I still have the issue of qtopia 4.3.2 not honoring my "charging" power management profile 
Sep 24 16:22:38 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-03.ogg
Sep 24 16:22:40 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-04.ogg
Sep 24 16:23:13 <wurp2|working> lpotter: (on gta01).  However, if I hold the aux button to get the task list, then return to the home screen, it begins honoring my power management profile.
Sep 24 16:23:15 <raster> alarm clock demo app included
Sep 24 16:23:20 <raster> at multiple screen resolutions/dpi's
Sep 24 16:23:25 <raster> exact same config/theme
Sep 24 16:23:31 <raster> same code
Sep 24 16:24:28 <ieatlint> raster, mind if i ask a quick question about edjes... is it possible to display text parts at an angle (eg, a 90 degree angle)?
Sep 24 16:24:29 <playya> i want to have a blender demo
Sep 24 16:25:05 <zash> raster: oh, 
Sep 24 16:25:08 <zash> nice
Sep 24 16:25:17 <raster> ia unfortunately no - rtation isnt supported in evas
Sep 24 16:25:23 <raster> tho that is going to be added soon
Sep 24 16:25:24 <raster> :)
Sep 24 16:25:27 <neldoreth> bernt: you here?
Sep 24 16:25:37 <ieatlint> well, that's good then :)
Sep 24 16:25:53 <bernt> neldoreth: yes
Sep 24 16:26:40 <neldoreth> bernt: i will qry you with your code that i want to give you back for the invisible shield
Sep 24 16:26:54 <playya> raster, nice. can i have more than one alarm?
Sep 24 16:26:58 <neldoreth> thank you again
Sep 24 16:27:49 <bernt> neldoreth: no matter ;-)
Sep 24 16:28:22 <bernt> I've got my shield .. must find some time to put it on ...
Sep 24 16:28:55 <raster> playya:  nup.
Sep 24 16:29:15 <raster> considering i wrote the alarm app in an afternoon...
Sep 24 16:29:21 <raster> a fairly slow one...
Sep 24 16:29:35 <raster> i spent more time wondering how to make the window look like...
Sep 24 16:29:49 <raster> the toolkit i wrote over the preceeding week or 2
Sep 24 16:30:01 <raster> and then i found at was just being nasty and had to rpelace it
Sep 24 16:33:50 <playya> is the alarm time one widget or 5?
Sep 24 16:34:26 <raster> 1
Sep 24 16:34:30 <raster> its a generic clock widget
Sep 24 16:34:42 <raster> can be editable (to set the alarm time)
Sep 24 16:34:45 <raster> or just display time
Sep 24 16:34:50 <raster> (thus it sits and flips)
Sep 24 16:34:56 <raster> animation is all done in edje theme
Sep 24 16:35:06 <raster> in fact the layout is too
Sep 24 16:35:19 <raster> its got an abstract interface for talking to the widget code
Sep 24 16:37:28 <baze> hm, illume's layout adapts to screensize very nicely :)
Sep 24 16:37:36 <raster> :)
Sep 24 16:37:44 <raster> elcome to my idea of scalable
Sep 24 16:37:44 <baze> should make a very usable keyboard when rotating to landscape mode
Sep 24 16:37:47 <raster> not just scale everything
Sep 24 16:37:48 <baze> :)
Sep 24 16:37:52 <raster> scale selectively the bits u want
Sep 24 16:37:58 <raster> keep the pixel-perfectness as well
Sep 24 16:38:03 <baze> yeah
Sep 24 16:38:07 <raster> and yes- works landscape too etc.
Sep 24 16:38:07 <baze> looks really nice
Sep 24 16:38:34 <baze> i only miss this rubber-banding when doing the scrolling in the applications list ;)
Sep 24 16:38:57 <raster> rubber banding?
Sep 24 16:39:35 <baze> you know, when you get to an end (top or bottom) of the apps list, that it flicks back a bit
Sep 24 16:39:45 <raster> hmm
Sep 24 16:39:47 <baze> like a rubber band
Sep 24 16:39:56 <raster> doesnt have any such feature/code
Sep 24 16:39:59 <raster> it doesnt do it
Sep 24 16:40:04 <raster> it hits the end and stops dead
Sep 24 16:40:22 <Gromgull> In the makefile what are the alternative values for GIT_BRANCH ?
Sep 24 16:40:23 <baze> right
Sep 24 16:40:30 <Gromgull> asu.stable gives me what? 
Sep 24 16:40:47 <baze> that's what i mean. i miss this sliding back
Sep 24 16:40:53 <baze> looks a bit better, imho
Sep 24 16:41:15 <raster> its annoyign when u want to actually go to the end
Sep 24 16:41:19 <raster> it makes it hard
Sep 24 16:41:27 <raster> other than making it feel rubbery
Sep 24 16:41:31 <raster> it doesnt give u anything useful
Sep 24 16:41:34 <baze> true
Sep 24 16:41:44 <raster> so i'm dis-inclined to implement it
Sep 24 16:41:44 <raster> :)
Sep 24 16:41:49 <slaxxin> prolly uses cpu cycles to
Sep 24 16:42:10 <raster> slaxxin:  in the scheme of thngs - no more than the rest
Sep 24 16:42:41 <raster> ok
Sep 24 16:42:42 <raster> snoozies
Sep 24 16:43:01 <slaxxin> i have me sdcards  now i need a new qtopia
Sep 24 16:59:19 <Dave> heh qtopia
Sep 24 16:59:35 <Gnutoo> strange...big buck bunny isn't out of sync but gta4 trailer is(on the openmoko with the mplayer 1.0rc2)
Sep 24 17:00:18 <Gnutoo> and mplayer exits before the end...
Sep 24 17:05:49 <Dave> o_O
Sep 24 17:05:53 <Dave> what what what?
Sep 24 17:06:45 <kth5> how do i do the factory reset in uboot on a neo1973? looks like i somehow got rid of the menu option 
Sep 24 17:07:01 <Dave> :p
Sep 24 17:10:35 <slaxxin> hay dave
Sep 24 17:10:43 <slaxxin> super davr
Sep 24 17:12:31 <slaxxin> where dave?
Sep 24 17:12:53 <bove> hi! must I do anything special to play an mp3 file with madplay?
Sep 24 17:13:16 <bove> I get "audio: /dev/dsp: Device or resource busy"
Sep 24 17:15:39 <slaxxin> i was thinking   qtopia release
Sep 24 17:15:48 <slaxxin>    but i guess not
Sep 24 17:16:25 <mickey|tw> killall pulseaudio
Sep 24 17:16:29 <mickey|tw> then try again
Sep 24 17:16:55 <bove> cool!
Sep 24 17:16:57 <bove> thanks
Sep 24 17:20:09 <toggles_w> anyone able to build fso from scratch? i keep getting an issue with /desktop-file-utils-native_0.14.bb
Sep 24 17:20:09 <bove> so what sound system is actually in use ten?
Sep 24 17:24:08 <Daramarak> Is it possible to adjust the volume on the FR on 2008.8?
Sep 24 17:24:54 <slaxxin> alsamixer
Sep 24 17:25:24 <slaxxin> but its scary
Sep 24 17:25:55 <Daramarak> through gui?
Sep 24 17:26:30 <bove> alsamixer is "GUI"
Sep 24 17:27:38 <Daramarak> hehe, ok.
Sep 24 17:28:13 <slaxxin> run it cli
Sep 24 17:28:54 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * recbc555faa74 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade exposure on marek's request
Sep 24 17:28:54 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r5d82af2feda2 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia with various "search changes"
Sep 24 17:29:19 <Daramarak> Kind of awkward when you are on the phone with someone
Sep 24 17:29:42 <bove> he
Sep 24 17:30:00 <bove> how can I transfer sound to headphones
Sep 24 17:30:01 <bove> ?
Sep 24 17:31:44 <nyu> where's the ringtone in a qtopia?
Sep 24 17:36:56 <max_posedon> nyu, in "Profile"
Sep 24 17:39:33 <bernt> I want to change the font of a gtk.combo_box_new_text (python with pygtk and pango).
Sep 24 17:39:33 <bernt> But if I use the following code:
Sep 24 17:39:33 <bernt>    select = gtk.combo_box_new_text()
Sep 24 17:39:33 <bernt>    select.append_text(_('Inactive'))
Sep 24 17:39:33 <bernt>    select.append_text(_('Active'))
Sep 24 17:39:34 <bernt>    label = select.child
Sep 24 17:39:36 <bernt>    label.modify_font(pango.FontDescription("sans 18"))
Sep 24 17:39:38 <bernt> I get a warning with Attempting to add a widget with type GtkCellView to a container of type GtkAlignment ...
Sep 24 17:39:41 <bernt> What should I change?
Sep 24 17:39:44 <wurp2|working> bove: alsactl -f /path/to/state/files/gsmheadset.state restore
Sep 24 17:39:58 <wurp2|working> where /path/to/state/files/ is something like /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios
Sep 24 17:45:27 <bove> thsnks
Sep 24 17:45:37 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r3d55eed21bfa 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: 
Sep 24 17:45:37 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Fix SimRetrieveMessage and remove some unneeded code.
Sep 24 17:45:37 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Patch by dv_mlist@verizon.net, thanks!
Sep 24 17:45:37 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: This closes FSO Ticket #153
Sep 24 17:45:38 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rf60b9e85d0ac 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/convert.py: ogsmd: Fix calculating the timezone for the SCTS and VP field
Sep 24 17:45:41 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03hadara 07framework * r5c1cfd6b58f7 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/convert.py: 
Sep 24 17:45:44 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Fix bug in bcd_decode when an address is empty
Sep 24 17:45:46 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: When you have SMS messages with empty sender address the bcd_decode()
Sep 24 17:45:48 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: function will fail since it expects string to be at least 1 char long.
Sep 24 17:46:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: This patch fixes it.
Sep 24 17:46:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: Thanks to hadara@bsd.ee! This fixes FSO Ticket #145
Sep 24 17:48:50 <bove> wurp2|working: The onphone speaker muted, but I get no sound in the earphones. Guess it could be just the adapter not working
Sep 24 17:49:16 <bove> its a stere 2.5 to 3.5 adaptor
Sep 24 17:53:58 <donomo> 2008.9 goes to sleep, how do i wake it? a power button press doesnt seem to do it
Sep 24 17:54:43 <bove> I've been experiencing the same problem
Sep 24 17:55:52 <viq> try calling it ;)
Sep 24 17:56:26 <donomo> yooo hoooo!
Sep 24 17:56:58 <bove> Im using a "dead" sim card in the freerunner at the
Sep 24 17:57:06 <bove> time
Sep 24 17:57:09 <donomo> ive been using no sim card
Sep 24 17:57:37 <bove> ? I dind't actually know it could run without a sim card :P
Sep 24 17:57:55 <donomo> it does
Sep 24 17:58:03 <bove> seems fair
Sep 24 17:58:59 <izzyb> I've installed qtopia in an effort to get stable performance from my FR, but It still isn't working for me.  After flashing it, I was able to dial out, but had a dialing error and got an automated message from the phone company.  I haven't been able to make a call since.  I've rebooted it a couple of times, and even changed sim cards but it just doesn't want to work for me.  I'm starting to think I have a bad unit, problem with my sim 
Sep 24 17:58:59 <izzyb> card or problem with my carrier.  Any thoughts?
Sep 24 17:59:03 <bove> I've just disabled suspend, as I have no need for it when not using it as a phone
Sep 24 17:59:51 <donomo> bove: is that a configuration option?
Sep 24 18:00:14 <bove> go to settings and press suspend
Sep 24 18:00:23 <donomo> izzyb: i have yet to get a usable phone from 2007.x 2008.x or FSO.
Sep 24 18:01:27 <izzyb> I've tried 2008.8 and .9, fdom, and now qtopia
Sep 24 18:01:39 <donomo> id be happy with a curses interface if it could reliably make and take calls.
Sep 24 18:02:14 <lindi-> TAsn: i think i figured out #151!
Sep 24 18:02:18 <Dave> :)
Sep 24 18:02:46 <Dave> izzyb, and how were they?
Sep 24 18:02:48 <Dave> :p
Sep 24 18:04:12 <Dave> Lindi, what's going on?
Sep 24 18:04:19 <TAsn> lindi-, ?! how ;]
Sep 24 18:04:25 <Dave> HOW!? WHAT!? WHERE!?
Sep 24 18:04:31 <Dave> Omg Tasn
Sep 24 18:04:46 <TAsn> Dave, OMG!!!
Sep 24 18:04:52 <Dave> ONEONEONE
Sep 24 18:04:57 <TAsn> lindi-, what is it?! ;]
Sep 24 18:05:06 <izzyb> Didn't see much difference between 2008.8 and .9, fdom is basicly the same but with more apps installed.  qtopia is noticeably more polished looking.  But non of them seem to make the device usable :(
Sep 24 18:05:27 <TAsn> I think i just forgot the voice distortion app on ;]
Sep 24 18:05:47 <TAsn> next time im going on a killing spree i will surely remember leaving a note to turn that off ;]
Sep 24 18:05:56 <Dave> bah
Sep 24 18:06:28 <TAsn> lindi-, just saw your comment
Sep 24 18:06:36 <TAsn> sounds interesting enough.
Sep 24 18:06:46 <TAsn> got anywhere to read from about AT commands?
Sep 24 18:07:03 <Obri> gaga
Sep 24 18:07:21 <Obri> sorry, wrong window
Sep 24 18:08:47 <wurp2|working> bove: Is it the motorola adapter?
Sep 24 18:09:45 <bove> well, its a brandless "Home Cinema 2.5 to 3.5 stereo adapter" bought from a gadget store
Sep 24 18:10:09 <izzyb> Is this device actually usable as a phone?  ie does it reliably make and receive phone calls for anyone?
Sep 24 18:10:43 <izzyb> or is it just a toy for hacking on?
Sep 24 18:11:35 <lindi-> TAsn: the command is proprietary TI command
Sep 24 18:11:45 <lindi-> TAsn: i don't think there are any official specs we could see
Sep 24 18:11:57 <lindi-> TAsn: can you verify if it fixes the voice issue for you?
Sep 24 18:12:24 <TAsn> i can, though not now ;[
Sep 24 18:12:36 <TAsn> i have to go soon and i promised my brother i will finish something for him.
Sep 24 18:12:44 <TAsn> though by tomorrow i think i will have time to confirm.
Sep 24 18:12:48 <TAsn> thanks a lot.
Sep 24 18:13:02 <Tm_T> izzyb: yes, it's also a phone
Sep 24 18:13:02 <TAsn> how should i test it? run mickey's terminal?
Sep 24 18:14:07 <izzyb> k, so then I should be able to reliably make and receive calls with it.  so what tests can I use to verify if my problem is software or hardware?
Sep 24 18:14:27 <izzyb> at this point I'm starting to think I have a bad unit and am considering getting it replaced
Sep 24 18:15:05 <izzyb> but I don't want to wast a bunch of peoples time and resources if its just a luser error on my part
Sep 24 18:16:39 <lindi-> TAsn: just change frameworkd to use the command
Sep 24 18:17:13 <TAsn> i see.
Sep 24 18:17:22 <TAsn> that's the file?
Sep 24 18:17:28 <lindi-> grep is running :)
Sep 24 18:17:44 <lindi-> i'm now planning to migrate to work as non-root
Sep 24 18:19:09 <TAsn> lindi-, that's too soon (i think)
Sep 24 18:19:21 <gregdude> TASn: the AT codes are up on teh wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_and_Neo_FreeRunner_gsm_modem
Sep 24 18:19:33 <Dave> zomg
Sep 24 18:19:45 <Dave> Someone should write a short story about the freerunner
Sep 24 18:19:59 <TAsn> gregdude, nice! thanks.
Sep 24 18:20:27 <lindi-> TAsn: why too soon?
Sep 24 18:20:36 <lindi-> i already would benefit a lot from it
Sep 24 18:20:47 <TAsn> lindi-, like what?
Sep 24 18:21:01 <gregdude> TAsn, good luck with them, I had them on my mind all week with this code I'm hacking (up) now...
Sep 24 18:21:18 <TAsn> ;]
Sep 24 18:21:24 <TAsn> gregdude, what are you hacking anyway?
Sep 24 18:22:40 <gregdude> TAsn, some code to record GSM tower (cell, signal, etc..) info together with GPS.  Trying to find locations of GSM towers and use them to have quick GSM positioning....
Sep 24 18:22:59 <TAsn> gregdude, i see, cool ;]
Sep 24 18:23:18 <TAsn> though i think the framework already supplies tower info, no need for AT commands.
Sep 24 18:23:21 <gregdude> TAsn, Not very reliable, but usually within about 200m of the real position....
Sep 24 18:23:32 <TAsn> gregdude, i know about it.
Sep 24 18:23:40 <lindi-> TAsn: like not getting warning in minimo
Sep 24 18:23:46 <TAsn> used it in my no-gps nokia 6680 for a while.
Sep 24 18:23:48 <lindi-> TAsn: not having to be so careful with commands
Sep 24 18:23:52 <TAsn> lindi-, you get a warning?
Sep 24 18:23:58 <TAsn> lindi-, being careful is a bitch.
Sep 24 18:24:07 <lindi-> TAsn: being able to keep my private data in my home directory so that i can share my openmoko backups to rest of the internet
Sep 24 18:24:24 <lindi-> TAsn: yeah minimo constantly shows a warning
Sep 24 18:24:24 <TAsn> also letting someone play with your phone may result in a
Sep 24 18:24:30 <TAsn> cd / && rm -rf *
Sep 24 18:24:31 <TAsn> ;]
Sep 24 18:24:33 <lindi-> TAsn: i only share the backups
Sep 24 18:24:37 <TAsn> lindi-, i never saw one.
Sep 24 18:24:57 <lindi-> but at the moment i don't know where programs write data
Sep 24 18:24:59 <TAsn> lucky me i used the matchbox keyboard last time someone tried it.
Sep 24 18:25:13 <lindi-> TAsn: so it's hard to reproduce bugs since i don't know exactly where the programs change things
Sep 24 18:25:21 <lindi-> TAsn: some programs could edit /etc directly when run as root
Sep 24 18:26:01 <TAsn> lindi-, that is correct.
Sep 24 18:26:28 <lindi-> TAsn: and i would like to have my settings in .xsession and not some mysterious /etc/init.d/lindi-session :PP
Sep 24 18:26:55 <TAsn> ;]
Sep 24 18:27:36 <nyu> where's the qtopia Profile directory?
Sep 24 18:27:51 <lindi-> TAsn: this is what i mean :-)
Sep 24 18:29:29 <bove> alsactl -f headset.state puts sound in the right channel only. no other states gives me anything
Sep 24 18:30:57 <lindi-> TAsn: /usr/share/python-support/fso-frameworkd/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py:        c.append( "%CBHZ=1" ) # home zone cell broadcast: enable
Sep 24 18:31:04 <Dave> zomg
Sep 24 18:31:15 <lindi-> TAsn: says "dpkg -L fso-frameworkd|xargs grep CBHZ"
Sep 24 18:31:20 <bove> and the sound is really thin like its a line signal or something
Sep 24 18:33:56 <gregdude> lindi-, this might be the discussion leading to that CBHZ: http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/openmoko-devel/2008/7/14/2467794/thread
Sep 24 18:35:15 <lindi-> gregdude: hmm
Sep 24 18:35:21 <lindi-> gregdude: do you have any insight knowledge on this? ;)
Sep 24 18:35:54 <gregdude> lindi-, i'm sorrry, I cannot say I have....  
Sep 24 18:36:45 <lindi-> gregdude: ok
Sep 24 18:37:02 <lindi-> gregdude: since i don't understand how CBHZ could have anything to do with audio quality
Sep 24 18:37:09 <lindi-> gregdude: but it is very audible difference here
Sep 24 18:37:15 <lindi-> (yes, i made multiple test calls)
Sep 24 18:38:07 <gregdude> than i was just a foo, sorry :)
Sep 24 18:38:39 <Dave> lindi, does it?
Sep 24 18:38:45 <Dave> what's the problem?
Sep 24 18:38:51 <lindi-> Dave: fso bug #151
Sep 24 18:39:33 <Dave> I take it that it's not particularly amusing?
Sep 24 18:39:59 <lindi-> Dave: ?
Sep 24 18:40:10 <AJuOnLiNE>  Cross-compiling qtopia-opensource-src <-- does this mean that I can run the Qtopia build on my linux box ?
Sep 24 18:40:12 <lindi-> Dave: it's very difficult to understand what the other party is saying
Sep 24 18:40:24 <Dave> :(
Sep 24 18:40:26 <Dave> That's the worst.
Sep 24 18:40:32 <Dave> or when they don't supply enough info.
Sep 24 18:42:04 <lindi-> Dave: who don't?
Sep 24 18:44:24 <Dave> :P
Sep 24 18:44:35 <Dave> haha you sound like one of the bug submitters now :P
Sep 24 18:44:51 <lindi-> Dave: yes i am trying to fix it
Sep 24 18:48:25 <Dave> go go lindi!
Sep 24 18:48:35 <lindi-> Dave: huh?
Sep 24 18:48:46 <lindi-> edistar: how do you start your xfce?
Sep 24 19:19:21 <hossi_> someone who use ubuntu having problem to reach internet from your FR connected to your comp via usb
Sep 24 19:19:43 <spydon> Would it be theoretically possible for the freerunner to run android?
Sep 24 19:20:26 <[df]> theoretically, certainly
Sep 24 19:20:48 <GiggleLoop_> howdy all
Sep 24 19:20:52 <playya> hossi_, whats your problem?
Sep 24 19:21:02 <spydon> but no one have managed to do it yet?
Sep 24 19:21:29 <[df]> is the android source even available yet?
Sep 24 19:21:38 <spydon> I have no idea :P
Sep 24 19:22:04 <mjr> no
Sep 24 19:22:11 <[df]> tbh I've been a bit disappointed with the way android is being run
Sep 24 19:22:14 <mjr> well at least not free
Sep 24 19:22:16 <mjr> yeah
Sep 24 19:22:26 <Dave> mjr!
Sep 24 19:22:28 <[df]> which is partly why I got a freerunner
Sep 24 19:22:33 <hossi_> playya: I can't reach internet from my FR, I want to download packages. I managed to ssh to the phone via usb
Sep 24 19:22:46 <spydon> hossi_, have you edited the resolv.conf correctly?
Sep 24 19:22:50 <Dave> heh
Sep 24 19:22:54 <Dave> spydon, damn, you beat me :P
Sep 24 19:22:58 <johnsu01> so, I've got a bluetooth keyboard paired with qtopia, and hcidump shows signals, but typing doesn't show anything
Sep 24 19:23:09 <johnsu01> on the screen
Sep 24 19:23:25 <spydon> Dave, hehe, not often you gets beaten, huh? :P
Sep 24 19:23:30 <hossi_> spydon: yes. I can't ping an ip-adress outside of my home LAN
Sep 24 19:23:34 <Dave> johnsu01: does it work on the console?
Sep 24 19:23:41 <Dave> spydon, indeed ;)
Sep 24 19:23:45 <bamccaig> hossi_, I had a lot of trouble getting my PC (Fedora9) to route traffic from my FreeRunner to my router. Check out a thread I created that has a solution that worked for me. http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/597639/769289#target
Sep 24 19:23:48 <johnsu01> Dave: how would I check that?
Sep 24 19:23:52 <spydon> hossi_, but can you ping like google.se?
Sep 24 19:23:58 <[df]> hossi_: have you set up masquerading on the ubuntu box?
Sep 24 19:23:58 <johnsu01> Dave: It does work paired with my laptop, so I know the keyboard itself works
Sep 24 19:24:40 <Dave> right right
Sep 24 19:24:54 <GiggleLoop_> Does anyone besides be get the White-Screen-of-Death with 2008.9?
Sep 24 19:24:58 <hossi_> spydon: can't ping outside of my home lan, domain names or ip-adress
Sep 24 19:25:00 <Dave> :D
Sep 24 19:25:05 <spydon> ah you "cant" I thought it said can :P
Sep 24 19:25:36 <Dave> spydon, do you have glasses?
Sep 24 19:26:03 <spydon> Dave, no, but I should maybe get a pair ^^
Sep 24 19:26:08 <Dave> ;)
Sep 24 19:26:22 <bamccaig> hossi_, does that mean you are able to ping other devices in your LAN besides the PC connected to the FreeRunner?
Sep 24 19:27:09 <hossi_> bamccaig: I can ping my router
Sep 24 19:27:23 <johnsu01> Dave: Yes, if I stop qpe, what I type appears on the screen
Sep 24 19:27:26 <hossi_> from my phone
Sep 24 19:27:52 <spydon> hossi_, is your router IP showing up if you do cat /etc/resolv.conf ?
Sep 24 19:27:57 <bamccaig> Then I got nothin. :P
Sep 24 19:28:41 <hossi_> spydon: in my FR or on the ubuntu box?
Sep 24 19:28:41 <[df]> so you have fr <--> ubuntu pc <--> router?
Sep 24 19:28:46 <[df]> and you can ping the router?
Sep 24 19:28:56 <spydon> hossi_, the FR
Sep 24 19:29:22 <hossi_> [df]: hmm now i can't ping my router :p
Sep 24 19:29:54 <[df]> are IP forwarding and masquerading set up on the ubuntu box?
Sep 24 19:30:08 <hossi_> [df]: dunno, how do I check?
Sep 24 19:30:29 <[df]> cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
Sep 24 19:30:32 <[df]> should be 1
Sep 24 19:31:07 <hossi_> [df]: yes, it say "1"
Sep 24 19:31:16 <[df]> ok
Sep 24 19:31:31 <[df]> now if you do iptables -t nat -L, what do you get?
Sep 24 19:31:35 <bamccaig> hossi_, that link I posted above has a serious of commands that worked to configure iptables for me... :-/ The Wiki instructions alone didn't work.
Sep 24 19:32:11 * Dave spies on spydon
Sep 24 19:32:27 <bamccaig> hossi_, Mind you, it clears the iptables configuration first so if you actually have custom rules you probably wouldn't want to use it alone.
Sep 24 19:32:42 <Dave> I was about to say, you're running iptables actively on your freerunner? - What?
Sep 24 19:33:04 <Dave> What's next, someone trying to get SE working on their Freerunner.
Sep 24 19:33:05 <Dave> haha
Sep 24 19:33:11 <lindi-> Dave: what's the problem?
Sep 24 19:33:17 <viq> SE?
Sep 24 19:33:22 <[df]> this is on the ubuntu box, not the freerunner
Sep 24 19:33:25 <zash> as in selinux?
Sep 24 19:33:27 <Dave> yes
Sep 24 19:33:28 <viq> Ah
Sep 24 19:33:34 <lindi-> i'd very much like to run iptables on my phone
Sep 24 19:33:48 <spydon> Hehe, why shouldn't you have iptables on the phone? :P
Sep 24 19:34:03 <bamccaig> It seems like a good idea, really...
Sep 24 19:34:08 <hossi_> bamccaig: should I add thoes ip-tables to the phone?
Sep 24 19:34:10 <Dave> maybe
Sep 24 19:34:20 <[df]> quite, iptables is pretty lightweight compared to most userspace apps
Sep 24 19:34:28 <Dave> hossi, if you're the guy having usb networking problems, then no, presumably to your pc
Sep 24 19:36:09 <bamccaig> The point of configuring iptables is to tell Linux to forward packets from the Neo to your LAN so they will reach the Internet. That's what the iptables configuration is for. I haven't actually figured out iptables yet so somebody else will have to advise further. :P
Sep 24 19:36:42 * [df] is happy to advise further if you need it :D
Sep 24 19:37:38 <bamccaig> I see on the Wiki that apparently dfu-utils doesn't play nice with 64-bit Linux... Am I going to have to install a 32-bit system?
Sep 24 19:38:13 <bamccaig> s/dfu-utils/dfu-util/
Sep 24 19:38:13 <apt> bamccaig meant: I see on the Wiki that apparently dfu-util doesn't play nice with 64-bit Linux... Am I going to have to install a 32-bit system?
Sep 24 19:38:23 <bamccaig> :P
Sep 24 19:38:32 <[df]> woah, is that a bot
Sep 24 19:38:35 <lindi-> bamccaig: chroot
Sep 24 19:38:40 <[df]> s/bot/bot\?/
Sep 24 19:38:40 <apt> [df] meant: woah, is that a bot\?
Sep 24 19:38:48 <[df]> awesome :)
Sep 24 19:38:53 <bamccaig> Whoa, it is!! :o
Sep 24 19:39:04 <Dave> ugggggggggggh
Sep 24 19:39:06 <bamccaig> I thought it was a guy and I had beaten him... Damn :-[
Sep 24 19:39:07 <Dave> fuck
Sep 24 19:39:35 <Dave> First of all, why would ANYBODY be installing a 64bit linux onto the freerunner?
Sep 24 19:39:50 <[df]> er, you don't run dfu-util on the freerunner
Sep 24 19:39:50 <hossi_> bamccaig: no way of troubleshooting so one can be sure it's the iptables who's not working 
Sep 24 19:39:58 <[df]> you run it on the box you're using to flash the freerunner
Sep 24 19:39:59 <bamccaig> Dave, Not onto the FreeRunner... My desktop PC.
Sep 24 19:40:00 <cjb> Dave: it doesn't run on the freerunner.  he means a linux desktop.
Sep 24 19:40:05 <cjb> bamccaig: it works for me
Sep 24 19:40:13 <cjb> bamccaig: on 64-bit.  I think that warning is stale.
Sep 24 19:40:58 <Dave> cjb, well, OBVIOUSLY
Sep 24 19:41:01 <Dave> ¬_¬
Sep 24 19:41:07 <Dave> cjb, some people are daft, don't blame me :)
Sep 24 19:41:17 <Dave> also a tad bit insane :P
Sep 24 19:41:20 <bamccaig> Good to hear.. I guess I'll give it a try... :-X I just got my FreeRunner a few weeks ago and haven't really had time to do anything more than explore the default GUI.
Sep 24 19:41:26 <lesouvage> On the flyer there is a picture of an installer running on the  freerunner. How do I start/install the installer? 
Sep 24 19:41:50 <cjb> bamccaig: if you're worried about it not working, don't flash uboot with it :)
Sep 24 19:41:54 <cjb> (the others are all recoverable.)
Sep 24 19:41:58 <Dave> cjb, give us your softwares!
Sep 24 19:43:10 <bamccaig> Isn't uboot recoverable too in the NAND? :-/ I thought everything in the NAND was recoverable through just USB by booting the NOR...
Sep 24 19:43:26 <[df]> yes, on the freerunner
Sep 24 19:44:03 <bamccaig> Even though I'm a n00b, I was considering buying a dboard to see what I can learn and so that I could play with the NOR too. ^^ Probably should hold off on that, I guess.
Sep 24 19:44:18 <cjb> oh yeah, that's true.
Sep 24 19:44:47 <Dave> cjb, so I wrote a program to try to remotely control the power on the freerunner
Sep 24 19:44:50 <[df]> I'm taking the view that there's a hell of a lot of playing around I can do without a debug board, so I don't feel the need to invest in one for now
Sep 24 19:45:12 <lindi-> [df]: yep
Sep 24 19:45:24 <Dave> and I've got six running it in the background... -- I accidentally sent a stray bcast while testing... now I have to reboot all of them :D
Sep 24 19:45:29 <Dave> what a pain ;)
Sep 24 19:45:47 <cjb> Dave: cool.  how does it do that?
Sep 24 19:46:14 <Dave> Well, it might not have many practical uses, but I thought it might be a neat idea to try
Sep 24 19:46:28 <Dave> it just listens and carries out my bidding
Sep 24 19:46:30 <Dave> ;)
Sep 24 19:47:03 <Dave> originally I had it making syscalls, but they weren't all the same and some were flaky, so for some commands I just manually manipulate the devices
Sep 24 19:47:16 <Dave> I mean, it's not like the phone's suspend works well on its own, anyway.
Sep 24 19:47:50 <[df]> meh, I've just tried a cool in the latest qtopia snapshot and had both echo and gsm buzz :(
Sep 24 19:47:55 <[df]> s/cool/call/
Sep 24 19:47:56 <apt> [df] meant: meh, I've just tried a call in the latest qtopia snapshot and had both echo and gsm buzz :(
Sep 24 19:48:08 <Dave> ouch!
Sep 24 19:48:18 <Dave> for a second there, I thought apt might have a freerunner of her own ;)
Sep 24 19:48:20 <[df]> well, the person on the other end had echo
Sep 24 19:48:30 <Dave> df, that's terrible!
Sep 24 19:48:40 <Dave> MORE BUGREPORTS!
Sep 24 19:48:53 <[df]> well I think they're both bugs that have been reported
Sep 24 19:49:05 <[df]> but I heard the echo had been fixed
Sep 24 19:49:35 <Dave> SUPPOSEDLY
Sep 24 19:49:42 <Dave> Wasn't the WSoD supposedly fixed as well?
Sep 24 19:49:58 <lindi-> now moving to fso bug #116 :P
Sep 24 19:50:15 <Dave> :P
Sep 24 19:50:19 <Dave> go lindi, go!
Sep 24 19:50:30 <lindi-> no i mean #140
Sep 24 19:50:52 <Dave> lindi, you suck at counting :P
Sep 24 19:50:59 <lindi-> everyone here should fix one bug a day
Sep 24 19:51:24 <Dave> a bug a day, keeps the developers at bay ;p
Sep 24 19:51:33 <[df]> keeps the users at bay, surely?
Sep 24 19:51:39 <Dave> either that, or underpaid!
Sep 24 19:51:40 <Dave> :D
Sep 24 19:51:51 <lindi-> TAsn: you seemed to have reported #140 too
Sep 24 19:51:53 <GiggleLoop_> The WSoD was fixed?
Sep 24 19:52:02 <Dave> It's a trap.
Sep 24 19:52:40 <lindi-> TAsn: thanks for reporting the bug
Sep 24 19:52:45 <TAsn> lindi-, not sure i know what you mean
Sep 24 19:52:52 <TAsn> i may have just confirmed, let me check.
Sep 24 19:52:58 <TAsn> lindi-, thank you for solving it ;]
Sep 24 19:53:03 <lindi-> TAsn: framework.log (16.2 kB) - added by tasn on 09/20/08 22:57:08.
Sep 24 19:53:13 <TAsn> that's just a confirmation
Sep 24 19:53:17 <TAsn> i didn't report ;]
Sep 24 19:53:47 <lindi-> ok, i took a peek at apt-get source ppp but it's not so simple as i would have hoped
Sep 24 19:53:52 <GiggleLoop_> Dave: been watching bug #1841 for a while now and there doesn't seem to be much activity on the wsod...
Sep 24 19:54:32 <lindi-> TAsn: pap-secrets has just * * "" * which sounds odd
Sep 24 19:54:54 <TAsn> lindi-, not all require a pass.
Sep 24 19:55:05 <TAsn> *all carriers
Sep 24 19:55:13 <lindi-> TAsn: but i specified "x"
Sep 24 19:55:13 <TAsn> i also tried with and without
Sep 24 19:55:19 <lindi-> TAsn: so why is frameworkd not using it?
Sep 24 19:55:37 <TAsn> lindi-, framwork actually doesn't use the files in
Sep 24 19:55:41 <TAsn> /etc/ppp
Sep 24 19:55:43 <TAsn> at all
Sep 24 19:55:45 <lindi-> TAsn: but it generates them
Sep 24 19:55:51 <TAsn> no it doesn't
Sep 24 19:55:54 <lindi-> it does
Sep 24 19:55:56 <TAsn> it generates files in
Sep 24 19:55:59 <TAsn> tmp
Sep 24 19:56:00 <TAsn> instead.
Sep 24 19:56:06 <lindi-> PPP_PAP_SECRETS_FILENAME = "/etc/ppp/pap-secrets"
Sep 24 19:56:10 <lindi-> says frameworkd source code
Sep 24 19:56:33 <TAsn> lindi-, really?! i think they were using a different file.
Sep 24 19:56:36 <lindi-> PPP_DAEMON_SETUP[PPP_PAP_SECRETS_FILENAME] = '* * "%s" *\n' % ''
Sep 24 19:56:45 <TAsn> check /tmp
Sep 24 19:56:48 <TAsn> lindi-, weird.
Sep 24 19:57:26 <lindi->     PPP_CONNECT_CHAT_FILENAME = "/var/tmp/ogsmd/gprs-connect-chat"
Sep 24 19:57:26 <lindi-> we have
Sep 24 19:57:26 <lindi-> but no secrets
Sep 24 19:57:43 <lindi-> TAsn: it doesn't tell pppd about anything else in /tmp either so how could pppd find it?
Sep 24 19:58:48 <TAsn> weird.
Sep 24 19:58:53 <TAsn> i thought it does.
Sep 24 19:59:00 <TAsn> try ps aux | grep ppp
Sep 24 19:59:04 <TAsn> while trying to connect
Sep 24 19:59:06 <lindi-> fortunately i have time to read the source :)
Sep 24 19:59:10 <TAsn> i think i saw some more files ;]
Sep 24 19:59:13 <TAsn> lindi-, hehe you do ;]
Sep 24 19:59:18 <lindi-> ['/usr/sbin/pppd', '/dev/pts/5', 'connect', '/var/tmp/ogsmd/gprs-connect-chat', 'disconnect', '/var/tmp/ogsmd/gprs-dis\
Sep 24 19:59:21 <lindi-> connect-chat', '115200', 'nodetach', 'crtscts', 'defaultroute', 'debug', 'holdoff', '3', 'ipcp-accept-local', 'ktune', 'lcp-echo-failure', '8', 'lcp-echo-interval', '10\
Sep 24 19:59:24 <lindi-> ', 'ipcp-max-configure', '32', 'lock', 'noauth', 'noipdefault', 'novj', 'novjccomp', 'proxyarp', 'replacedefaultroute', 'usepeerdns', 'user', '"x"']
Sep 24 19:59:29 <Dave> oh snaps
Sep 24 19:59:31 <TAsn> okie.
Sep 24 19:59:38 <Dave> having ppp problems?
Sep 24 19:59:55 <lindi-> hmmmm, '"x"' is interesting
Sep 24 20:00:06 <lindi-> Dave: #140 is about them
Sep 24 20:00:10 <Dave> oh!
Sep 24 20:00:16 <Dave> I don't seem to have much problem with mine...
Sep 24 20:00:32 <Dave> it can be finicky at times
Sep 24 20:00:44 <Dave> but for the most part it's reliable... slow, but reliable
Sep 24 20:01:04 <Dave> then again, this is on an earlier 2007 release :P
Sep 24 20:01:39 <lindi-> yep something was just broken in later frameworkd version
Sep 24 20:03:34 <Dave> lindi, ah, disappointing :(
Sep 24 20:03:41 <Dave> this backwards development is so harsh
Sep 24 20:03:53 <GiggleLoop_> does anyone know if the opkg signature-check can be deactivated?
Sep 24 20:05:23 <[df]> has anyone had an issue with 2007.2 and qtopia regularly dropping out from the network?
Sep 24 20:05:36 <[df]> I'm pretty certain it's software, because when it comes back it has full signal
Sep 24 20:05:58 <[df]> and I don't think it happened with 2008.9, although possibly that just didn't announce it as loudly
Sep 24 20:08:35 <lindi-> [df]: just look what it talks with gsm chip
Sep 24 20:09:37 <Dave> giggleloop, nope
Sep 24 20:09:43 <wurp2|working> [df]: That is a common problem
Sep 24 20:09:59 <Dave> I wrote a WRAPPER around opkg, because that, and it's other errors are so pointless, annoying, and unhelpful to the new user!
Sep 24 20:10:08 <Dave> fucking opkg maintainers :D
Sep 24 20:10:24 <wurp2|working> [df]: There was speculation recently between mickey|zzZZzz and mwester_ that the cell tower tells the phone to switch towers
Sep 24 20:10:55 <wurp2|working> [df]: but lots of people have the issue of the phone persistently dropping off network once a minute or more, then reacquiring
Sep 24 20:10:58 <[df]> is it a common problem with all distros then or just certain ones?
Sep 24 20:11:15 <wurp2|working> And it seems to go away for a few days, and come back.
Sep 24 20:11:36 <wurp2|working> [df]: The drop is happening down in the gsm, I think
Sep 24 20:11:52 <wurp2|working> [df]: Some distros handle getting back on the network much better than others, though
Sep 24 20:12:40 <wurp2|working> In case that wasn't clear, since it happens down in the gsm, all distros have the same issue
Sep 24 20:12:50 <wurp2|working> but it is much less of an issue for some than others
Sep 24 20:13:04 <lpotter> seems to be fxed in qtopia 4.4, at least for me :)
Sep 24 20:13:14 <[df]> so is it a hardware issue that can be worked around?
Sep 24 20:13:18 <wurp2|working> lpotter: You don't drop off the network at all?
Sep 24 20:13:19 <spydon> hossi_, are you from sweden?
Sep 24 20:13:25 <GiggleLoop_> Dave: other errors? ouch...  didn't find those yet...
Sep 24 20:13:29 <lpotter> wurp2|working: not anymore
Sep 24 20:13:41 <wurp2|working> lpotter: From what I heard, the problem would spontaneously go away for days at a time, then come back
Sep 24 20:13:48 <lpotter> it used to, quite often. but only on hte freerunner
Sep 24 20:13:54 <wurp2|working> lpotter: So where's my 4.4 download?
Sep 24 20:13:57 <hossi_> spydon: yes
Sep 24 20:14:05 <wurp2|working> lpotter: Yeah, the problem is much less bad for me on gta01 than what I hear about the FR
Sep 24 20:14:07 <lpotter> wurp2|working: its been many weeks since I have seen this problem
Sep 24 20:14:13 <spydon> hossi_, are you a member of the pirate party?
Sep 24 20:14:16 <wurp2|working> But mwester_ said he had the issue on several gta01s too
Sep 24 20:14:23 <wurp2|working> lpotter: Kick ass! :-)
Sep 24 20:14:35 <wurp2|working> lpotter: So where's my 4.4 download?
Sep 24 20:14:51 <lpotter> look at QFuture
Sep 24 20:14:59 <lpotter> :)
Sep 24 20:15:04 <Dave> yarr
Sep 24 20:15:07 <lpotter> sorry. not yet. soon
Sep 24 20:15:11 <hossi_> spydon: I'm actually the third memberb or pirate party in sweden :)
Sep 24 20:15:16 <hossi_> *of
Sep 24 20:15:24 <spydon> hossi_, ah then I know where I have seen your nick before
Sep 24 20:15:29 <spydon> hossi_, awesome!
Sep 24 20:15:44 <lpotter> my 3 year old son like to be a pirate... ARGGG!
Sep 24 20:16:06 <lpotter> sometimes he is a grumpy pirate
Sep 24 20:16:08 <wurp2|working> lpotter: You implemented QFuture to help deal with this dropping problem?  Is it some commands that are being sent before the gsm is ready?
Sep 24 20:16:14 <lindi-> TAsn: #140 fixed :)
Sep 24 20:16:16 <spydon> yeah tell him to join our next demonstration lpotter ;)
Sep 24 20:16:31 <lpotter> wurp2|working: heh.. no, I was jus tbeing funny
Sep 24 20:16:37 <TAsn> lindi-, what?! how?
Sep 24 20:16:38 <wurp2|working> kthx ;-)
Sep 24 20:17:00 <lpotter> wurp2|working: but I do think some gsm init commands were compounding the problem
Sep 24 20:17:08 <hossi_> spydon: do you have any idea what's the name of the package if you want to install the terminal via opkg?
Sep 24 20:17:17 <wurp2|working> lpotter: The problem is that I don't have a way to set a callback to be informed when this operation completes
Sep 24 20:17:28 <spydon> hossi_, openmoko-terminal2 I think
Sep 24 20:17:38 <wurp2|working> I don't want to monitor all events that happen in the community  list :-)
Sep 24 20:17:52 <lpotter> wurp2|working: I'm the callback function
Sep 24 20:18:23 <Dave> brokenmoko
Sep 24 20:18:29 <Dave> lpotter :)
Sep 24 20:18:32 <lindi-> TAsn: see bug report soon
Sep 24 20:18:42 <Dave> Who you gonna call?
Sep 24 20:18:53 <TAsn> lindi-, ;]
Sep 24 20:22:39 <lindi-> TAsn: now at http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/140
Sep 24 20:23:59 <TAsn> lindi-, haha, thanks, i will test that soon ;]
Sep 24 20:24:17 * lindi- wants more bugs to squash :)
Sep 24 20:25:10 <viq> lindi-: a walk on a swamp? ;)
Sep 24 20:25:22 <[df]> you could stop my phone dropping off the network?
Sep 24 20:26:00 <lindi-> [df]: gsmd?
Sep 24 20:26:49 <[df]> er, I don't know... it happens with 2007.2 and qtopia
Sep 24 20:27:30 <lindi-> [df]: hmm? 2007.2 uses gsmd i think
Sep 24 20:27:34 <lindi-> [df]: ps axuf?
Sep 24 20:28:47 <bamccaig> I've been wondering if it's possible to create non-root users and add passwords for all users? :-/ (Running OM 2007.2 or 2008.8)
Sep 24 20:30:07 <LionKMP> I don't know how to start he nodm x a way that it is reassigned to a user.
Sep 24 20:30:26 <LionKMP> should check how a general desktop does that. 
Sep 24 20:30:44 <LionKMP> Michael! :) Ferenc here
Sep 24 20:30:54 <[df]> lindi-: nope, apparently not using gsmd currently (on qtopia)
Sep 24 20:31:29 <[df]> is this a problem that may be fixed in 2008 then?
Sep 24 20:32:49 <lindi-> [df]: can you please check the qtopia sources? just grep for ATD or something
Sep 24 20:33:29 <[df]> so what AT command am I looking for?
Sep 24 20:38:24 <lesouvage_> How can I chack what version of the OM is installed on my new freerunner.
Sep 24 20:38:47 <[df]> actually I'm having trouble finding the qtopia source :(
Sep 24 20:39:03 <[df]> there's a link to an ftp dir on the trolltech site which is empty
Sep 24 20:39:46 <LionKMP> lesouvage: Settings -> System info ?
Sep 24 20:39:46 <[df]> lesouvage_: it ships with 2007.2 afaik
Sep 24 20:40:04 <LionKMP> ah, hm, ok, my idea works only on 2008.x :)
Sep 24 20:40:08 <lpotter> [df]: ftp://ftp.trolltech.com:21/qtopia/source
Sep 24 20:40:22 <LionKMP> cat /etc/om-version ?
Sep 24 20:40:34 <lesouvage_> LionKMP: stupid question maybe, but where am I suppose to find this option?
Sep 24 20:41:18 <LionKMP> lesouvage: it ships with 2007.2 so if you didn't flash another, it's that.
Sep 24 20:41:32 <LionKMP> lesouvage: sorry, my idea assumed you have 2008.8. :-D
Sep 24 20:42:09 <bamccaig> :D
Sep 24 20:42:48 <[df]> lpotter: that's got 4.3.2, any idea if 4.3.3 is available?
Sep 24 20:43:04 <LionKMP> lesouvage: that's 2007.2 : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Openmoko2007.2_home_screen.png
Sep 24 20:43:11 <lpotter> [df]: there is also this http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Qtopia
Sep 24 20:43:24 <LionKMP> sometimes it's without the big clock.
Sep 24 20:43:47 <lesouvage_> But isn't there a package manager with a front end that i can use to add packages. I saw an installer option on one of the pictures. I know this phone is not for the faint of hard but adding some basic aps can't be that hard I suppose?
Sep 24 20:44:12 <[df]> the graphical installer is on 2008
Sep 24 20:44:20 <LionKMP> lesouvage: I think you need this first: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner
Sep 24 20:44:35 <edje> hi all, when i start om-messages it crashes. there are a few messages in te inbox. any idea what i can do about it ?
Sep 24 20:44:59 <LionKMP> yes, and then I would upgrade to 2008.8 (by flashing a the version, it's also detailed in getting started)
Sep 24 20:45:05 <LionKMP> 2008.9
Sep 24 20:45:22 <lesouvage_> LionKMP: thanks for the pointer. I hope I will return a little bit wiser
Sep 24 20:45:34 <LionKMP> :) 
Sep 24 20:45:47 <lpotter> [df]: 4.3.3 has not been released
Sep 24 20:48:33 <[df]> lpotter: er, http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 suggests it has?
Sep 24 20:48:41 <[df]> I'm pretty certain it's what I'm running...
Sep 24 20:50:16 <[df]> I think maybe the getting started page could make it clearer that the phone ships with what is effectively an obsolete distro and you probably want to flash it straight away
Sep 24 20:58:10 <lindi-> [df]: how can you do development without source?
Sep 24 20:59:23 <[df]> I don't develop qtopia
Sep 24 20:59:23 <bamccaig> It's pretty clear when you start using the shipped with distro. ;)
Sep 24 20:59:27 <[df]> I only installed it today
Sep 24 21:08:38 <bamccaig> n00b question: I just downloaded the .tar.gz of the rootfs and splash for 2008.9. Does dfu-util use the .tar.gz or do I need to extract it or something? :-X I extracted the rootfs only to find a Linux directory tree, which doesn't seem right. :P
Sep 24 21:09:12 <LionKMP> aw, why not downloaded the jffs2 then have to do nothing.
Sep 24 21:09:15 <mjr> for flashing with dfu-util, you want a jffs2 image, which should be downloadable alongside
Sep 24 21:09:20 <lesouvage_> I'm a little bit confused. Can somebody tells me what files I need fro the list on http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/ to update my freerunner. I plan to use OpenMoko flasher for macosx. Should I load all the available files in this dir? (bin, tar.gz and jffs2 files) FunnyI just typed the same question.
Sep 24 21:09:21 <LionKMP> which gudie did you follow?
Sep 24 21:09:35 <mjr> (or you can make the image from the tar archive yourself, of course, but that's more complicated)
Sep 24 21:11:22 <bamccaig> Ah, I figured it was along those lines. :( Back to downloading. :)
Sep 24 21:12:07 <LionKMP> bamccaig: was the Download guide confusing? (I work on the documentation)
Sep 24 21:13:23 <lesouvage_> So I need the jffs2 file for the filesystem and the .bin file for the kernel to do the update?
Sep 24 21:13:35 <LionKMP> yes
Sep 24 21:14:04 <lesouvage_> LianKMP: thanks !
Sep 24 21:15:14 * bamccaig saw "The system is going down for halt" message in a terminal and panicked before realizing it was his ssh session with his Neo.
Sep 24 21:16:56 <zogg_> Any way to quit application, and not to kill it through terminal?
Sep 24 21:17:23 <viq> zogg_: which distro?
Sep 24 21:17:34 <zogg_> ASU
Sep 24 21:17:49 <zogg_> lets say, tangogps
Sep 24 21:17:56 <viq> unfold top menu, there will be 'remove' on lower left of it
Sep 24 21:18:09 <LionKMP> kill is quit, isn't it? (with not using -9 of course)
Sep 24 21:19:06 <zogg_> oh, sweet. Funny tho, never actually noticed that 'qwerty' label area changes :))
Sep 24 21:23:34 <bamccaig> LionKMP: I wouldn't say it was confusing... I've been through much of this before so I'm skimming now and probably missing stuff... I didn't see anything about the .tar.gz versus .jffs2 this time around. I seem to recall reading about it the first time though. :-X
Sep 24 21:24:13 <LionKMP> bamccaig: yep, it was there earlier, but the download page changes a lot :-p
Sep 24 21:26:49 <bamccaig> Ahh!! I shutdown my FreeRunner with `shutdown -P now' over SSH and now it is spewing the same lines into the terminal... :-X
Sep 24 21:31:39 <lesouvage_> Downloading OM2008.9 takes a lot of time. It seems that I'm not the only one upgrading . (30 mb takes halve an hour)
Sep 24 21:32:17 <lesouvage_> But the screendumps look very promissing, so I guess it will worth the waiting.
Sep 24 21:32:52 <LionKMP> definitely :)
Sep 24 21:33:24 <bamccaig> clear
Sep 24 21:33:42 * bamccaig has a habit of `clear'ing terminals. This isn't a terminal though.
Sep 24 21:34:21 <ieatlint> bamccaig, ctrl+l ... imagine the time you'll save
Sep 24 21:34:23 <LionKMP> :D
Sep 24 21:34:33 <LionKMP> :D
Sep 24 21:37:05 <bamccaig> I didn't know about ctrl+l... Something tells me I don't want to clear irssi though... At least, not until I know the "repaint" sequence.
Sep 24 21:37:06 <lesouvage_> How stable and usable is OM2008.9. I use an iPhone now so I'm used with rebooting my phone once in a while.
Sep 24 21:38:00 <ieatlint> ctrl+l isn't a signal, so unless irssi interprets it, it'll do nothing
Sep 24 21:38:06 <ieatlint> ctrl+l is a bash feature
Sep 24 21:38:11 <bamccaig> Oooh, awesome. :o
Sep 24 21:38:25 <bamccaig> That is handy. Thanks. :D
Sep 24 21:38:53 <LionKMP> actually ctrl-l does a redraw in many programs, did in ircII too.
Sep 24 21:39:10 <LionKMP> when something writes into a curses screen, I do ctrl-l.
Sep 24 21:39:19 <ieatlint> ctrl+w and ctrl+u are good too (the former deletes all text to the left of the cursor until a delimeter is hit [a space, generally], and the latter does it to the beginning of the line)
Sep 24 21:39:46 <LionKMP> wow, I didn't know ctrl-u. I usually hold ctrl-w ;-)
Sep 24 21:40:00 <bamccaig> LionKMP, ieatlint: Also good to know. :)
Sep 24 21:40:15 <ieatlint> i use ctrl+u all the time... great for when you're at a password prompt and think you typoed
Sep 24 21:40:30 <LionKMP> ! good
Sep 24 21:41:57 <bamccaig> Which do you do first: run dfu-util or boot NOR? Does it matter and how do you keep the Neo from shutting off (IIRC it shuts off if left running NOR for a timeout period).
Sep 24 21:42:00 <ieatlint> (!good)^1
Sep 24 21:42:13 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: Boot NAND :-)
Sep 24 21:42:36 <bamccaig> I thought the NOR communicated with dfu-util...? O_O
Sep 24 21:42:44 <wurp2|working> and keep clicking aux every 30 seconds :-(
Sep 24 21:42:44 <LionKMP> 30 seconds and then off, yep.
Sep 24 21:42:48 <LionKMP> but not while flashing of course.
Sep 24 21:43:00 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: Both can, but NAND is the one that has the latest bootloader on it
Sep 24 21:43:00 <ieatlint> you're in for a whole bunch of confusion bamccaig  :)
Sep 24 21:43:10 <bamccaig> I'm sure..
Sep 24 21:43:24 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: You *can* use either NOR or NAND.  But don't.  Use NAND.
Sep 24 21:43:30 <bamccaig> Now I'm not sure I know the difference between booting NOR and NAND... Maybe it was the NAND bootloader I was in before...
Sep 24 21:43:37 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: At some point using NOR when you don't need to is liable to lead to heartache.
Sep 24 21:43:48 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: You can see the message at the top of the screen
Sep 24 21:43:50 <LionKMP> wurp2|working: it never flashed for me from NAND. Maybe I have an older NAND than you!
Sep 24 21:44:24 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: To boot NAND, hold power, then about 1 sec after you pressed power, click aux while still holding power
Sep 24 21:44:29 <wurp2|working> when the menu comes up release power
Sep 24 21:44:42 <bamccaig> Yep, it was NOR I was booting.
Sep 24 21:44:49 <bamccaig> wurp2|working: That sounds difficult. :-[
Sep 24 21:45:03 <wurp2|working> LionKMP: Heh, I'm giving all this info thirdhand.  I have a gta01, but mwester says boot from NAND, not NOR.  I trust mwester and what he says makes sense.
Sep 24 21:45:07 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: Yeah :-(
Sep 24 21:45:38 <wurp2|working> LionKMP: Have you tried updating your NAND uboot?
Sep 24 21:45:40 <bamccaig> wurp2|working: Failed attempt 1. It is booting the OS. :-[
Sep 24 21:45:42 <LionKMP> let's wait if bamccaig can flash it from NAND :)
Sep 24 21:45:49 <LionKMP> wurp2|working: no, I have the original NAND.
Sep 24 21:46:01 <wurp2|working> LionKMP: although... afaik NAND should have burned just fine unless you put a bad uboot on there
Sep 24 21:46:02 <ieatlint> you should always boot from nand uboot, but nor uboot *should* pose no issues for flashing
Sep 24 21:46:17 <wurp2|working> LionKMP: Then it should work :-(
Sep 24 21:46:50 <ieatlint> it's just good practice, never use nor unless you need to (and you only need to right now if you're flashing nand uboot, really)
Sep 24 21:46:53 <wurp2|working> ieatlint: Well, if there  are bugs fixed in uboot, and you've been cautious with NOR uboot as you should, then NAND uboot is better
Sep 24 21:46:56 <LionKMP> bamccaig: hehe, read this carefully: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting
Sep 24 21:47:16 <wurp2|working> ieatlint: sorry, looked as if you were advocating NOR
Sep 24 21:47:20 <ieatlint> wurp2|working, but the odds of a bug fix coming along that changes flashing is very small
Sep 24 21:47:40 <wurp2|working> ieatlint: Sure.... mwester had some other more compelling reason
Sep 24 21:47:42 <wurp2|working> lemme look...
Sep 24 21:47:44 <ieatlint> i'm saying it shouldn't matter... but you should use nand even though it shouldn't matter
Sep 24 21:47:51 <bamccaig> LionKMP: Thanks.
Sep 24 21:48:11 <LionKMP> let's see if it works for bamccaig :)
Sep 24 21:48:24 <LionKMP> bamccaig: boot NAND and let's see if it can flash. If yes, there is a problem with my NAND :)
Sep 24 21:48:32 <ieatlint> bamccaig, in short, treat NOR uboot like a recovery disk....
Sep 24 21:48:59 <wurp2|working> ieatlint: agreed
Sep 24 21:50:29 <ieatlint> oh, and anyone using a nand uboot that's older than like august 8 is crazy :P
Sep 24 21:50:42 <ieatlint> you should have it more current than that though, even
Sep 24 21:51:56 <LionKMP> ieatlint: I did not update it since FR arrived in July. :(
Sep 24 21:52:38 <ieatlint> yeah, there have been a lot of bug fixes
Sep 24 21:52:53 <ieatlint> like the gps/sd card thing
Sep 24 21:52:55 <LionKMP> ok, I'll update it. thanks
Sep 24 21:53:04 <LionKMP> gps/sd in UBOOT???
Sep 24 21:53:29 <ieatlint> on the very low level, yes
Sep 24 21:53:38 <wurp2|working> For those interested, on Sep 19 20:54:24 mwester made some comments in here talking about hardware ECC (whatever that is) being turned on, after which using NOR for dfu wouldn't work (w/o a uboot upgrade, which is slightly risky if you don't have a debug board)
Sep 24 21:53:46 <LionKMP> hm, ok. I'll flash it. That does not affec the installed OS.
Sep 24 21:53:56 <bamccaig> dfu-util --list:  Found Runtime: [0x1d50:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED"
Sep 24 21:54:22 <bamccaig> I booted NAND! Is that normal output for a factory FreeRunner?
Sep 24 21:54:29 <wurp2|working> s/uboot upgrade/NOR uboot upgrade/
Sep 24 21:54:29 <apt> wurp2|working meant: For those interested, on Sep 19 20:54:24 mwester made some comments in here talking about hardware ECC (whatever that is) being turned on, after which using NOR for dfu wouldn't work (w/o a NOR uboot upgrade, which is slightly risky if you don't have a de...
Sep 24 21:55:09 <ieatlint> hmmm.. i didn't know the FR had any sort of ECC
Sep 24 21:55:31 <ieatlint> and as i understand it, a NOR upgrade isn't possible without a debug board
Sep 24 21:56:17 <izzyb> is there a way to debug gsm problems?
Sep 24 21:56:49 <izzyb> I can't seem to get the phone to receive or make calls and I have no idea why
Sep 24 21:56:50 <wurp2|working> ieatlint: Ah, that makes sense
Sep 24 21:56:53 <lesouvage_> When I reflash with openmoko flasher to upgrade to 2008.9 should I just choose flash and will that update my kernel and my filesystem (both files are loaded)?
Sep 24 21:57:33 <LionKMP> I don't know mac os x flasher tool.
Sep 24 21:57:37 <LionKMP> read the manual?
Sep 24 21:58:53 <lesouvage_> What I mean is: is the kernel part of the rootfile system so if you update the rootfile system you don't need to update de kernel?
Sep 24 21:59:08 <LionKMP> no no, they are separate.
Sep 24 21:59:20 <bamccaig> (1) Why are there duplicate entries in my boot menu? (2) OMG, I think it's flashing!
Sep 24 21:59:29 <LionKMP> flash both, separately. they use a different partition. Not like on PC linux.
Sep 24 21:59:46 <LionKMP> bamccaig: :) cool
Sep 24 22:02:33 <bamccaig> Kernel finished... Working on rootfs now...
Sep 24 22:03:32 <bamccaig> I assumed the -R option would reset (i.e. restart) the FreeRunner... That didn't seem to happen, so what does it reset?
Sep 24 22:03:52 <LionKMP> reset USB line I think, something in the connection.
Sep 24 22:04:18 <LionKMP> -R --reset                    Issue USB Reset signalling once we're finished
Sep 24 22:04:25 <LionKMP> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util   ;-)
Sep 24 22:06:47 <lesouvage_> Is this the procedure to get the bootmenu on a freerunner :   on your Openmoko, hold the AUX button while pressing the Power button for 5 seconds
Sep 24 22:06:56 <bamccaig> Yeah, that's where I got the reset from... USB signalling could have been anything! \o/
Sep 24 22:08:12 <bamccaig> lesouvage_: Pay attention. ;)   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting
Sep 24 22:12:17 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: That is the procedure to get NOR boot menu
Sep 24 22:12:43 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: You want the NAND boot menu unless you're recovering from a bad uboot burn
Sep 24 22:13:02 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: For NAND boot, hold power button, press aux briefly after you push power button down
Sep 24 22:13:35 <lesouvage_> I have it on the screen. I'm just following instruction from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X#Graphical_Flashing_with_Openmoko_Flasher
Sep 24 22:13:36 <bamccaig> It took me 3 hours today to pick a number for my Neo's SIM card... My carrier's Web site listed 10 numbers at a time, ffs, and reloaded the whole page with each new list... It got to the point where I was loading the page in 20 Firefox tabs to increase the speed that I was cycling through them. :P
Sep 24 22:14:52 <bamccaig> rootfs done... I shutoff the power afterward. Hopefully that was right. ;)
Sep 24 22:14:57 <lesouvage_> I'm in NAND mode, it is on the screen *** BOOT MENU (NAND) ****
Sep 24 22:15:22 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: I usually just boot it, but powering off should be fine
Sep 24 22:15:50 <LionKMP> I am chatting on MSN on pidgin, rox :)
Sep 24 22:16:16 <wurp2|working> LionKMP: I chat on MSN on irc via bitlbee and jabber, so there
Sep 24 22:16:17 <ronny> hmm, is there any good jabber client for om yet?
Sep 24 22:16:23 <bamccaig> Aww, I forgot to update the splash screen. :P
Sep 24 22:16:37 <ronny> (pidgin really sucks at anything advanced when it comes to jabber)
Sep 24 22:17:03 <wurp2|working> LionKMP: Oh, on pidgin on the FR.  You win :-)
Sep 24 22:17:20 <LionKMP> hehe yep
Sep 24 22:17:38 <bamccaig> 1 more with much successes using dfu-util on a 64-bit system.
Sep 24 22:17:41 <LionKMP> however there is no input box for my text, I can't see what I type before sending.
Sep 24 22:17:54 <ronny> hmm, i hate pidgin
Sep 24 22:17:54 <LionKMP> bamccaig: splashs creen!
Sep 24 22:17:58 <LionKMP> the original is nicer than the new one!
Sep 24 22:18:02 <wurp2|working> LionKMP: I would probably still prefer irc to my bitlbee gateway, then
Sep 24 22:18:20 <bamccaig> Booting: \d+%   (That cemented with a pair of boots)
Sep 24 22:18:46 <wurp2|working> cement boots, that's old school
Sep 24 22:19:28 <edje> Hi all, if i shutdown my freerunner, i can only start it again by connecting a charger or usb cable. is that normal? 2007.2
Sep 24 22:20:05 <lindi-> edje: power button should start it if held long enough
Sep 24 22:20:43 <bamccaig> OK, my phone has never prompted me for my SIM pin... I thought maybe it was a bug in 2007.2 or something, but even with 2008.9 it isn't...
Sep 24 22:21:09 <bamccaig> ...WTF. Apparently my Neo just shutdown... For no reason at all.
Sep 24 22:21:38 <edje> lindi-: i tried over ten seconds, how long should it take?
Sep 24 22:21:41 <lesouvage_>  got a message "end of write exceeds partition end" while reflashing with openmoko flash for macosx. What should I do?
Sep 24 22:21:49 <lindi-> edje: not very long
Sep 24 22:22:23 <lindi-> edje: does the physical power button work?
Sep 24 22:22:43 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: What are you trying to flash?  Which distro?
Sep 24 22:22:54 <bamccaig> Ahhhh! :| My FreeRunner might have just died. Did somebody sneak FoxAlive into that kernel image!?
Sep 24 22:22:57 <edje> lindi-: so, is it  a bug or a defect?  the power button does work for all other functions
Sep 24 22:23:23 <wurp2|working> edje: You've tried removing the battery for 10 seconds, putting it back in, & then booting?
Sep 24 22:23:30 <LionKMP> lesouvage_: are you sure you flash kernel to kernel, rootfs to rootfs?
Sep 24 22:23:33 <wurp2|working> And does the FR stay on if you disconnect the charger?
Sep 24 22:24:14 <lesouvage_> wurp2|working:  Om2008.9-gta02-20080916.rootfs.jffs2
Sep 24 22:24:49 <edje> wurp2|working: i tried the battery trick, it did not work. as sson as i use the charger starts and keeps running after the charger is removed. ( battery is full by the way )
Sep 24 22:25:02 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: As LionKMP said, are you sure you flashed kernel as the kernel, rootfs as the rootfs?
Sep 24 22:25:06 <lindi-> edje: hard to say, sounds weird
Sep 24 22:25:17 <lindi-> edje: has it always been like that?
Sep 24 22:25:31 <edje> i only have it for two days ;-)
Sep 24 22:25:46 <wurp2|working> edje: For me (on my gta01), it will start when I plug the charger in if the way it shut down was by running the battery all the way down
Sep 24 22:25:53 <wurp2|working> Are you sure you've charged it completely?
Sep 24 22:26:12 <edje> wurp2|working: yup 100% charged
Sep 24 22:26:19 <bamccaig> OK, maybe not dead.. After pulling the battery and putting it back in it is rebooting again... Perhaps it was still running, but the screen died?
Sep 24 22:26:30 <wurp2|working> If the battery is too low, and it last shut down because of low battery, it will start as soon as you plug in the charger, but not from holding down the power button
Sep 24 22:26:32 <lesouvage_> The line I see is " Starting DFU download  to partition factory"
Sep 24 22:26:46 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: Probably.  Some distros turn off screen after 40 seconds or so
Sep 24 22:27:03 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: There are different dfu parameters for burning kernel vs rootfs
Sep 24 22:27:03 <bamccaig> How do you turn the screen back on? :-X
Sep 24 22:27:11 <edje> wurp2|working: that is the behavior i see, but with a full battery
Sep 24 22:27:14 <wurp2|working> bamccaig: Touch it, or push aux if it has suspended
Sep 24 22:27:18 <wurp2|working> edje: :-(
Sep 24 22:27:27 <bamccaig> Touching didn't work... Maybe it suspended...
Sep 24 22:27:38 <lesouvage_> wurp2|working : I'm using a tool, I suppose this tool knows what image should go to what partition.
Sep 24 22:27:57 <edje> well, thanks all, i will investigated some more the next couple of days
Sep 24 22:28:04 <bamccaig> I must say, the 2008.9 startup is less friendly than 2007.2...
Sep 24 22:28:07 <wurp2|working> lesouvage_: Sorry, I dunno anything about your tool... but based on what happened, I suppose it doesn't know which image goes to which partition :-)
Sep 24 22:30:29 <lesouvage_> There also was a "go manual" part in the instalation guide. I guess it is time t read that part. ;-(
Sep 24 22:31:52 <bamccaig> OK, I think it just have been suspended... AUX seemingly worked (though I did everything I could think of before it actually came back so who knows what did it). It's a little slow.
Sep 24 22:32:48 <bamccaig> And it's only taking like 5 - 10 seconds to "suspend"... Not cooll.
Sep 24 22:33:08 <bamccaig> It seems the power button might be bring it out of "suspension".
Sep 24 22:33:13 <bamccaig> Anybody familiar with 2008.9?
Sep 24 22:34:17 <LionKMP> power yes
Sep 24 22:34:23 <LionKMP> unless when it fails
Sep 24 22:34:35 <bamccaig> Heh. I like that last part. ^^
Sep 24 22:35:32 <bamccaig> Is the time application not working properly yet? I can't see to set the time from the GUI (nor can I select my timezone, etc.).
Sep 24 22:35:43 <bamccaig> s/see/seem/
Sep 24 22:35:43 <apt> bamccaig meant: Is the time application not working properly yet? I can't seem to set the time from the GUI (nor can I select my timezone, etc.).
Sep 24 22:35:48 <LionKMP> Settings -> Clock
Sep 24 22:36:03 <LionKMP> zone there too
Sep 24 22:36:40 <bamccaig> Yeah, it's not working...
Sep 24 22:36:56 <bamccaig> Everything after the first option appears to be disabled no matter what I select in the first option...
Sep 24 22:37:11 <bamccaig> Except "no"... I haven't tried no... Should it be no to change the others?
Sep 24 22:38:10 <bamccaig> s/no/off/
Sep 24 22:38:11 <apt> bamccaig meant: Except "off"... I haven't tried no... Should it be no to change the others?
Sep 24 22:38:21 <bamccaig> My bad... Yes, automatic had to be set to off.
Sep 24 22:39:28 <LionKMP> yes, sorry. (having fun with MSN pidgin on FR meanwhile :) )
Sep 24 22:39:50 <LionKMP> gotta go. see you tomorrow :) have fun! Read the dox ;-)
Sep 24 22:40:24 <bamccaig> Thanks for the halpz, LionKMP.
Sep 24 22:40:30 <LionKMP> I just added program descriptions to this page, so you can find cool appz : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications_directory  :)
Sep 24 22:40:44 <LionKMP> will continue tomorrow... :)
Sep 24 22:56:10 <bamccaig> Is there no way to get to a terminal in 2008.9? :|
Sep 24 22:59:23 <dwalker> bamccaig, you have to install the terminal.
Sep 24 23:15:12 <uhsf> in the "known issues" section of the wiki for 2008.9, there is: Neo turns off before reaching x.
Sep 24 23:15:20 <uhsf> not very encouraging
Sep 24 23:16:41 <uhsf> also: Cannot dial numbers starting with * or #.
Sep 24 23:17:55 <uhsf> really?  how am i supposed to had credit to my phone account?  the number for that is #611
Sep 24 23:19:43 <uhsf> i'm so staying with 2007.2, OM has only regressed since february 2007 i don't think that's funny
Sep 24 23:24:52 <bamccaig> dwalker: Thanks... :-[ I probably meant to confirm that it wasn't installed by default.
Sep 24 23:27:31 <raster> bada.. bing!
Sep 24 23:28:21 <fredrin> bada bong 
Sep 24 23:52:23 <bamccaig> WTF... :(
Sep 24 23:53:01 <bamccaig> I installed some root password application in 2008.9 and immediately it's prompting me to enter a root password. Thing is, there is no input mechanism whatsoever. :(
Sep 24 23:55:22 <sicu> bada.. boom!
Sep 24 23:56:20 <georgy_28> bada ..dong
Sep 25 00:01:44 <bamccaig> lulz, I have a Web browser a terminal, but can only input alpha characters... I gotta find an alternate input mechanism...
Sep 25 00:01:49 <bamccaig> Anybody have a preference?
Sep 25 00:02:12 <bamccaig> s/browser a terminal/browser and terminal emulator/
Sep 25 00:02:34 <danwink> i just installed om2008.9 on the freerunner i got today, where is the terminal?
Sep 25 00:02:44 <bamccaig> You have to install it.
Sep 25 00:03:25 <bamccaig> You'll need a connection to the Internet. The you can go to the Installer at the bottom of the first screen and find it in the Development category.
Sep 25 00:03:47 <danwink> damn. im having trouble connecting it to the internet. when i tried to use wifi on my home network, i couldnt enter in the wep key because it was only letters no numbers
Sep 25 00:04:07 <danwink> and the usb connection ‎is tricky.
Sep 25 00:06:35 <uhsf> i just experienced something weird. when switching desktop in xmonad, all windows from the previous desktop are transfered into my second monitor. is this a 'feature' ?
Sep 25 00:06:46 <uhsf> sorry wrong channel
Sep 25 00:08:56 <bamccaig> danwink: There are two problems I've encountered with the USB networking. Adding DNS servers to /etc/resolv.conf and configuring iptables to forward Neo traffic to the Internet.
Sep 25 00:09:00 <bamccaig> Where are you with that?
Sep 25 00:09:24 <bamccaig> (Maybe problems wasn't the right word... Steps? :P)
Sep 25 00:10:21 <rwhitby> morning
Sep 25 00:10:56 <bamccaig> Linux says it's 8PM, but I feel so tiiiired...
Sep 25 00:11:34 <daverix_> i can't input anything in xterm why?
Sep 25 00:12:18 <bamccaig> We need manuals for everything so RTFM applies... Or we can attempt to make RTFW popular.
Sep 25 00:12:25 * bamccaig is kidding.
Sep 25 00:13:47 <danwink> well when i was running the stock firmware i could ssh into the phone and ping back and forth and stuff, but now that i installed the new firmware im having trouble with usb connection at all. let me try a few things again, brb
Sep 25 00:14:20 <bamccaig> Sounds over my head, sorry.
Sep 25 00:15:14 <bamccaig> I installed the openmoko-terminal or whatever instead of xterm... It allowed input, but was limited to alpha characters. I'm attempting to find a better input mechanism ATM.
Sep 25 00:15:54 * bamccaig lied. He's eating apple crisp *then* looking for a better input mechanism.
Sep 25 00:16:41 <danwink> grrr.... im connection via usb but since i installed 2008.9 its giving me warning messages WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED! IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!
Sep 25 00:16:42 <danwink> Someone could be eavesdropping on you right now (man-in-the-middle attack)!
Sep 25 00:16:42 <danwink> It is also possible that the RSA host key has just been changed.
Sep 25 00:17:13 <danwink> now i need to reassure the computer. its gone all paranoid on me.
Sep 25 00:17:32 <bamccaig> I just deleted that entry from ~./.ssh/known_hosts
Sep 25 00:18:34 <danwink> heh im a linux newbie; what command should i use from command line to change that file
Sep 25 00:19:50 <bamccaig> I use `vi', but it requires a little knowledge to use it. You might be better off using `pico' until you learn how to use vi. Or if you want I could give you the basics...
Sep 25 00:20:33 <bamccaig> I don't remember which one of `pico' and `joe' displays it's commands at the bottom, but that has been in my experience the easiest to use for a newbie (because the commands are there for reference). Other editors generally expect you to know at least how to ask for help.
Sep 25 00:21:02 <bamccaig> I think pico is the one you're after. So something like `pico ~/.ssh/known_hosts'.
Sep 25 00:21:11 <bamccaig> If it's installed. :P
Sep 25 00:22:18 <danwink> thanks
Sep 25 00:22:22 <danwink> pico wroks
Sep 25 00:22:31 <danwink> im inside it now
Sep 25 00:23:05 <danwink> yeah earlier i used vi, it was tricky
Sep 25 00:23:25 <bamccaig> It's a very powerful editor, but it's not n00b friendly, that's for sure. :P
Sep 25 00:23:49 <bamccaig> I'd like to take the time to learn all the vi commands. A short tutorial was enough to show me just how powerful it is.
Sep 25 00:24:08 <danwink> ill have to look into it then.:)
Sep 25 00:24:32 <danwink> alright now im onto getting it to talk to the outside world
Sep 25 00:25:35 <bamccaig> The instructions on the Wiki didn't work for me at that... I opened a thread on a discussion board and another member found a cached Wiki page (that had been deleted) with instructions that did work for me. Let me know how it goes and I'll post the link.
Sep 25 00:27:16 <danwink> right now im copying this into etc/network/interfaces in ubuntu
Sep 25 00:27:18 <danwink> auto usb0  iface usb0 inet static         address 192.168.0.200         netmask 255.255.255.0         network 192.168.0.0         up iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 &         up echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward &         up iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT &         down iptables -D POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 & 
Sep 25 00:28:54 <danwink> and now i cant ssh anymore :(
Sep 25 00:32:43 <danwink> also in 2008.9 how to you stop running programs? i started locations and sudoku and i dont know how to stop them
Sep 25 00:33:42 <danwink> i tried the other version on the wiki page and still cant get it to see the internet. will you send me that link?
Sep 25 00:36:14 <bamccaig> You stop running programs by switching to it (click the top of the screen like before) and picking the program, then clicking the top again and click "Remove" in the bottom left of that top secton.
Sep 25 00:36:20 <bamccaig> s/secton/section/
Sep 25 00:36:21 <apt> bamccaig meant: You stop running programs by switching to it (click the top of the screen like before) and picking the program, then clicking the top again and click "Remove" in the bottom left of that top section.
Sep 25 00:37:15 <danwink> thanks
Sep 25 00:37:23 <danwink> ok well i g2g, bb in 45 mins
Sep 25 00:37:25 <bamccaig> At least it removes it from that list... I *assume* it also kills it. ;)
Sep 25 00:48:46 <Dave> damn cross compilation :p
Sep 25 00:50:19 <bamccaig> Is anybody familiar with openmoko-set-root-password? Is there no cli equivalent, etc.?
Sep 25 00:50:38 <bamccaig> And if you do set the root password, are things going to break when you boot the Neo or will it know to prompt you?
Sep 25 00:57:02 <Dave> I don't see anything wrong with that
Sep 25 00:57:08 <Dave> so long as you remember it :)
Sep 25 00:58:51 <xcasex> hmmm anyone with a gta01 to unload for a buck ortwo ;d
Sep 25 00:58:54 <xcasex> ;D
Sep 25 01:09:47 <bamccaig> Is the process for flashing the updated splash screen the same as installing the kernel and rootfs (i.e. -a splash)?
Sep 25 01:11:03 <zash> xcasex: didnt you have one already?
Sep 25 01:13:10 <ivanchoo9> somebody talk in spanish???
Sep 25 01:15:52 <pjz> quien?
Sep 25 01:15:54 <gregdude> bamccaig, yeah just set the target to "splash"
Sep 25 01:18:08 <bamccaig> The boots are kinda lame... The original splash looked nicer... What's the deal with that?
Sep 25 01:19:03 <danwink> yeah i hate the boots (ib)
Sep 25 01:19:43 <danwink> i had to go get spore before best buy closed. i kept forgetting to get it
Sep 25 01:20:47 <bamccaig> OK, so apparently flashing the new splash was a bad thing(TM). My FreeRunner seemingly finished booting, but now the screen is dark (all black?) and it doesn't seem to respond to my inputs.
Sep 25 01:22:20 <ivanchoo9> somebody talk in spanish?
Sep 25 01:27:25 <kelvie> is it possible to flash the kernel live?
Sep 25 01:28:03 <kelvie> I'm sure the kernel partition is just one of the /dev/mtdblocks
Sep 25 01:28:11 <kelvie> but I don't know which one or what kind of partition they are
Sep 25 01:29:30 <bamccaig> Wow, something is definitely not happy in 2008.9... I'm having pretty consistent issues with the screen seemingly turning off or something... :-/
Sep 25 01:29:53 <fredrin> bamccaig: ditto
Sep 25 01:30:33 <danwink> yeah i had to tap the power button then touch the screen to get it to stop doing that
Sep 25 01:30:53 <danwink> but then after 30s it happens again
Sep 25 01:33:05 <bamccaig> Thing is, I tap the power button and nothing seems to be happening so I get impatient and hold it... And then the phone seems to shutdown (once the graphics came back in time for me to see it shutting down).
Sep 25 01:33:19 <danwink> YES! SUCCESS! Finally ping google.com works.
Sep 25 01:33:27 <bamccaig> \o/
Sep 25 01:33:58 <bamccaig> I've increased suspend to 60 seconds... Still doesn't seem enough though. :)
Sep 25 01:34:12 <fredrin> I've turned off suspend.... 
Sep 25 01:34:20 <danwink> fredrin: me too.
Sep 25 01:34:35 <bamccaig> And the screen still turns off? WTF is happening then?
Sep 25 01:34:38 <danwink> ok whats the best terminal openmoko-terminal or xterm
Sep 25 01:34:44 <danwink> no the screen stops turning off
Sep 25 01:34:49 <danwink> when you finally do that
Sep 25 01:35:01 <danwink> but then its on forever. not a great comprimise
Sep 25 01:35:10 <bamccaig> Yeah... :-/
Sep 25 01:35:54 <danwink> oh cool the logo for xterm is from superjer
Sep 25 01:36:12 <danwink> my inspiration for my raytracer
Sep 25 01:36:24 <bamccaig> Does anybody know where I can find instructions for installing a new touch keyboard on 2008.9? I need QWERTY... :'(
Sep 25 01:38:54 <bamccaig> After rebooting my /etc/resolv.conf file was wiped clean... Is that normal? If so, where do I store the nameservers permanently?
Sep 25 01:40:47 <danwink> It is, i think you edit /etc/network/interfaces
Sep 25 01:41:17 <danwink> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Configure_Default_Neo_DNS
Sep 25 01:41:43 <bamccaig> Ah... For some reason whenever I read that I thought it was on hosts that supported said file, which AFAICT Fedora doesn't..
Sep 25 01:42:59 <danwink> Yes this is so much fun. When i first got the Freerunner i was scared that it was too much a "developers only" phone, if you know what i mean, but im having so much fun with it now.
Sep 25 01:45:15 <bamccaig> Hmmm, is there a limit to how many nameservers you can add? I'm using my ISP's from home, but when I'm elsewhere or on public WiFi networks I might need to use different DNS servers... Can I add more than 3?
Sep 25 01:47:57 * bamccaig manually suspended his FreeRunner to test it's operation and *again* shut it down trying to awaken it.
Sep 25 01:48:47 <bamccaig> It seems the "locked" functionality via AUX actually postpones the shutdown though... o_O
Sep 25 01:49:15 <danwink> yeah when you awaken just a really quick tap, made that mistake a few times
Sep 25 01:49:54 <bamccaig> Yeah, it just doesn't seem to work though... I give it a quick tap and nothing seems to happen for 10 - 15 seconds... And I start to think it can't be taking that long and try again holding a little longer...
Sep 25 01:50:35 <bamccaig> FreeRunner: .92843822 seconds. No more. No less. >:(
Sep 25 01:51:05 <danwink> yeah for me a quick tap on the power button and then touch the touch screen immediatly
Sep 25 01:51:17 <danwink> ok does anyone know how snake works
Sep 25 01:51:32 <danwink> whats the select key?
Sep 25 01:52:28 <danwink> snake is very lame.
Sep 25 01:53:47 <fredrin> duke nukem 3d is nice :) 
Sep 25 01:55:00 <danwink> oo ill have to download that
Sep 25 02:05:03 <ivanchoo9> Somebody talk in spanish???????????????????????????? (=
Sep 25 02:10:44 <danwink> how are you supposed to type in xterm!?!?!
Sep 25 02:17:56 <bamccaig> ivanchoo9: I don't think so. ;)
Sep 25 02:19:49 <xcasex> zash: yep. but i need a second unit
Sep 25 02:20:36 <bamccaig> Is `man' excluded simply because of capacity? It's kind of annoying to not be able to get more information on a command. :P
Sep 25 02:22:07 * bamccaig almost dropped his Neo off his lap... :'(
Sep 25 02:24:55 <raster> bamccaig: run man on your deskto
Sep 25 02:25:12 <raster> seriouisly - it is a waste of flash to includ emanuals/docs on the phone
Sep 25 02:25:15 <raster> u have limited space
Sep 25 02:25:31 <raster> put stuff the software needs that u can't use more easily elsewhere
Sep 25 02:25:32 <raster> :)
Sep 25 02:25:48 <danwink> the freerunner feels very sturdy. Like if you dropped it off you lap it wouldnt matter
Sep 25 02:29:11 <bamccaig> Are they exactly the same manuals between the desktop and Neo though?
Sep 25 02:29:30 <bamccaig> danwink: I'd rather not find out. :P
Sep 25 02:29:35 <raster> if its the same command...
Sep 25 02:33:53 <bamccaig> I thought maybe xterm required a special option to display the keyboard... I don't understand how the whole platform works though (i.e. what takes care of the keyboard, the application or the OS)...
Sep 25 02:34:06 <raster> xterm has zero suport for auto-keyboard show
Sep 25 02:34:19 <raster> u need manual control
Sep 25 02:34:35 <bamccaig> What does that mean? :)
Sep 25 02:34:44 <raster> om decided that manula control is unnecessary by default thus u have to modify things to get it back
Sep 25 02:35:17 <raster> apps need to hint "i want a keyboard"
Sep 25 02:35:20 <raster> there are 2 mechanisms
Sep 25 02:35:35 <raster> the matchbox one (send a message to root explicitly saying "show" or "hide" keyboard)
Sep 25 02:35:53 <raster> or via properties on the window (much preferred) as u then just put a porperty saying "this window wants a keyboard"
Sep 25 02:35:57 <raster> and what style
Sep 25 02:36:03 <raster> (alpha-numeric, numebrs only, etc.)
Sep 25 02:36:13 <raster> if apps dont have this support keyboard wont display or hide
Sep 25 02:36:16 <raster> it'll do nothing
Sep 25 02:36:20 <bamccaig> Is this the planned implementation or the existing implemention? :-X
Sep 25 02:36:27 <raster> thats why i also had a manula control button
Sep 25 02:36:29 <raster> in the wm
Sep 25 02:36:34 <raster> that manually shows/hides kbd
Sep 25 02:36:50 <raster> but om decided they didnt want manual control
Sep 25 02:36:56 <raster> so removed that feature
Sep 25 02:37:19 <raster> i no longer work for om
Sep 25 02:37:29 <bamccaig> Are you basically saying that the repository version of xterm is completely unusable?
Sep 25 02:37:32 <raster> so whatever they plan is non of my concern - nor do i know what they plan
Sep 25 02:37:33 <raster> :)
Sep 25 02:37:42 <raster> dont look at me
Sep 25 02:37:47 <raster> ask om
Sep 25 02:37:52 <raster> as i said above
Sep 25 02:37:59 <bamccaig> o_O
Sep 25 02:38:05 <raster> u need to modify things (install replacement packages) to get manual control back
Sep 25 02:38:09 <raster> by default it is unusable
Sep 25 02:38:10 <raster> correct
Sep 25 02:38:16 <raster> that was what om wanted
Sep 25 02:38:28 <danwink> if i was connected to my freerunner via usb and through ssh i typed ifdown usb0, how do i get my usb back
Sep 25 02:38:49 <raster> danwink:  ifup usb0 ?
Sep 25 02:38:58 <danwink> but im not connected anymore....
Sep 25 02:39:05 <raster> u dont have a terminal?
Sep 25 02:39:11 <danwink> i have xterm,
Sep 25 02:39:24 <raster> ifup usb0 then
Sep 25 02:39:25 <raster> in it
Sep 25 02:39:31 <danwink> but theres no keyboard
Sep 25 02:40:12 <bamccaig> Heh.
Sep 25 02:40:16 <raster> and no manual keyboard controls added?
Sep 25 02:40:16 <bamccaig> We just went over this. ;)
Sep 25 02:40:34 <danwink> nope ... 
Sep 25 02:40:40 * danwink is embarrassed
Sep 25 02:40:41 <raster> (ie changed packages/theme etc. whihc requires basically using the installer)
Sep 25 02:40:49 <raster> and thus having wifi or a network working
Sep 25 02:40:58 <raster> as it will only install from a repository that you've set up to work
Sep 25 02:41:00 <danwink> yeah i had usb networking working
Sep 25 02:41:03 <raster> then reboot
Sep 25 02:41:05 <raster> u're sol.
Sep 25 02:41:10 <danwink> damn!
Sep 25 02:41:11 <danwink> lol
Sep 25 02:42:00 <danwink> thats the whole question. How do you enable a connection when you need the connection enabled to enable it?
Sep 25 02:43:55 <raster> well.. u were silly and did ifdown usb0
Sep 25 02:44:00 <raster> u did shoot yourself in the foot
Sep 25 02:44:00 <raster> :)
Sep 25 02:44:30 <danwink> yeah but i was going to type ifup usb0 right afterwards! i promise!
Sep 25 02:44:33 <danwink> lol
Sep 25 02:44:34 <raster> just be happy that it doesnt remember interface state and save it and only restore if's that were up on boot
Sep 25 02:44:44 <raster> why difown/up it at all?
Sep 25 02:44:53 <raster> (or u wanted to change ip?)
Sep 25 02:45:23 <danwink> because it stopped working because i typed ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 after changing some stuff in etc/network/interfaces
Sep 25 02:49:10 <raster> aaah
Sep 25 02:49:15 <raster> something u should have tyhought of
Sep 25 02:49:24 <raster> "i'm about to disable the interface i'm using to do this work"
Sep 25 02:49:25 <raster> :)
Sep 25 02:49:38 <raster> same as if u ssh'd into a server and u did ifdown eth0 on it
Sep 25 02:49:47 <raster> you ssh session wont be useful anymore
Sep 25 02:49:47 <raster> :)
Sep 25 02:50:16 <danwink> lol yeah i didnt quite think it through
Sep 25 02:54:49 <shoragan> raster, what do you think about having e17 remember if a window needs a keyboard (like the decoration settings)
Sep 25 02:54:50 <raster> at least u can reboot
Sep 25 02:55:34 <shoragan> then we ship a default config with xterm and some other apps already configured
Sep 25 02:56:27 <raster> shoragan: thats possible
Sep 25 02:56:38 <raster> tho e17's core knows nothing of vkbd's or those properties
Sep 25 02:56:45 <raster> so i'd need to make a fari few adjustments
Sep 25 02:56:48 <raster> fair
Sep 25 02:56:59 <raster> als then i'd really need to make window remembers accessible to users too
Sep 25 02:57:07 <raster> so they can add their own
Sep 25 02:58:47 <danwink> after my device boots it shows the home screen for 30secs or so then the screen goes black and i cant get it back on without taking out the battery, but then the same thing happens again
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 25 02:59:57 2008