**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 13 02:59:57 2008
Oct 13 03:00:18 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxin: don't think qtopia has a different kernel.
Oct 13 03:00:24 <slaxxin> oo
Oct 13 03:00:44 <DocScrutinizer> tickless or better zero-clock is a completely different thing
Oct 13 03:01:17 <slaxxin> images/i486/slx128-1.3.7-boot-hda-i486-1.bin
Oct 13 03:01:17 <slaxxin>                                 image to dd 1st (to burn lilo boot sect)
Oct 13 03:01:17 <slaxxin> images/i486/slx128-1.3.7-rootfs-hda1-i486-1.bin
Oct 13 03:01:17 <slaxxin>                                 image to dd 2nd (to burn the 128MB rootfs)
Oct 13 03:01:49 <slaxxin> i have some microsdcards to play with
Oct 13 03:01:58 <techiem2-r> slack on fr?
Oct 13 03:02:19 <slaxxin> thats what im thinking
Oct 13 03:02:25 <slaxxin>    hell im bored
Oct 13 03:02:28 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 13 03:03:05 <slaxxin> my little 512mem card is good for notning else
Oct 13 03:03:19 <techiem2-r> mhm
Oct 13 03:03:24 <techiem2-r> might as well test stuff on it
Oct 13 03:03:28 <DocScrutinizer> use for plektrum
Oct 13 03:05:30 <slaxxin> did u read neopwn?
Oct 13 03:06:00 <slaxxin> 79 dollar 2gig sdcard?
Oct 13 03:06:48 <techiem2-r> yeah
Oct 13 03:07:05 <techiem2-r> cool project, but seems a bit pricey
Oct 13 03:07:11 <slaxxin> yea
Oct 13 03:07:46 <esthar> Anyone tried the new 16GB microSD cards in the FR?
Oct 13 03:11:59 * raster ticks slaxxin 
Oct 13 03:38:01 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rfef3e43576da 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: oeventsd: Don't start the AudioAction in the RingToneAction if the volume is set to 0
Oct 13 03:56:44 <slaxxin> oo god no   ive been ticked
Oct 13 03:57:06 <slaxxin> now im ticked
Oct 13 03:57:42 <ljp> better than being tickled by raster
Oct 13 04:05:54 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rf24421e9ce9e 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: oeventsd: Access preferences service via DBus, instead of using direct python access
Oct 13 04:06:15 * raster tickles ljp
Oct 13 04:22:09 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r8139b3c160f9 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: oeventsd: Added the 'SetProfile' Action
Oct 13 05:06:04 <wakwe> i'm having a problem with joining an unsecured network.  my wpa_supplicant.conf and my wlan are both taken directly from the wiki but i'm getting the error "ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: operation not supported
Oct 13 05:06:08 <wakwe> anyone have an idea?
Oct 13 05:16:16 <rooly|away> what's the name of the settings app in 2008.8+?
Oct 13 06:32:39 <beni_> is it enough to keep my phone reasonable recent to do "opkg upgrades" and flash a new kernel (+ copy over the new modules) every now and then?
Oct 13 06:32:55 <beni_> or is there some magic in the rootfs that is not inside some opkg?
Oct 13 06:56:50 <Hopscotch> good morning
Oct 13 08:28:24 <levynir> humf
Oct 13 08:53:48 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r43911cc45026 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
Oct 13 08:53:48 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: Added a 'Test' Trigger
Oct 13 08:53:48 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: This is useful for testing the rules.
Oct 13 08:54:10 <zoltan_> hello - has anyone used qemu-neo1973 with the -gta02fake option?
Oct 13 08:54:32 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r1cf949bc11af 10/tools/cli-framework: cli-framework: Added events interface
Oct 13 08:56:25 <gromez> is it ok to have at the same time FSO testing and unstable feeds in my opkg conf ? (there are updates in testing which are not in unstable)
Oct 13 09:39:59 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03tick * r4712 10/developers/tick/scripts/sshn: [tick] a simple script helps to connect to Neo
Oct 13 10:42:58 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r18a96606b2a2 10/conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc: [autorev] add tichy as an AUTOREV package
Oct 13 10:42:58 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r1974f2c6cd86 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [sane-srcrevs] add tichy update
Oct 13 11:18:32 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2fbdad682f88 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/const.py: ogsmd: increase valid modem timeout for COPS to 30 seconds
Oct 13 11:41:36 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r484793b83301 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/ (oevents.py parser.py): oeventsd: Added 'AddRule' dbus method for dynamic creation of new rules
Oct 13 12:17:50 <emilis_info> fso stability is alie
Oct 13 12:17:51 <emilis_info> :(
Oct 13 12:19:05 <Shlee> FSO is written in Python to allow for rapid development.. once the api is perfected
Oct 13 12:19:16 <Shlee> they'll move to c.. and you'll have speed/stability
Oct 13 12:19:31 <Shlee> Don't expect stability during the milestones.. just have faith
Oct 13 12:19:42 <beni_> Shlee: they move to C if _neccessary_
Oct 13 12:21:00 <mickeyl> emilis_info: FSO is pretty solid.
Oct 13 12:21:00 <max_posedon> beni_, if all api won't move to C, progremers won't be able to programm in any language except Python.
Oct 13 12:21:07 <mickeyl> It's probably that you misperceive what FSO is
Oct 13 12:21:13 <mickeyl> FSO is middleware
Oct 13 12:21:24 <mickeyl> i.e. _not_ the zhone UI
Oct 13 12:21:30 <emilis_info> heh
Oct 13 12:21:32 <emilis_info> whatever
Oct 13 12:21:48 <_Bill_> max_posedon: that's exactly why they use dbus
Oct 13 12:21:49 <emilis_info> just found out that my wife is unable to call me and I don't receive SMS
Oct 13 12:21:52 <mickeyl> no, not whatever. it makes a big difference. you can't blame middleware when the error is in UI
Oct 13 12:21:59 <_Bill_> the only api will be on dbus level
Oct 13 12:22:04 <mickeyl> unless you wrote your own program using fso
Oct 13 12:22:06 <_Bill_> so it can be accessed in any language
Oct 13 12:22:07 <emilis_info> I don't think it is UI
Oct 13 12:22:21 <mickeyl> emilis_info: appreciating logs
Oct 13 12:22:46 <emilis_info> there was a strange gsm disconnect after reboot,auth with PIN,connect
Oct 13 12:23:06 <emilis_info> mickeyl, how do I make the logs?
Oct 13 12:24:51 <mickeyl> running ms3 or later versions?
Oct 13 12:24:58 <mickeyl> basically you configure /etc/frameworkd.conf
Oct 13 12:25:04 <mickeyl> log_level, log_to, log_destination 
Oct 13 12:26:10 <emilis_info> ms3
Oct 13 12:26:44 <emilis_info> how do I log a call from outside that is denied by a gsm provider?
Oct 13 12:26:45 <emilis_info> :)
Oct 13 12:28:01 <emilis_info> mickeyl, I don't see the log_* vars defined in /etc/frameworkd.conf
Oct 13 12:28:18 <emilis_info> what section should they be in, and what values should they have?
Oct 13 12:29:57 <alphaone> emilis_info: log_destination log_to should be set in the [frameworkd] section log_level can be set in any section and will affect log level of that subsystem
Oct 13 12:29:59 <gromez> under [frameworkd] section
Oct 13 12:30:27 <emilis_info> what values are ok for log_level?
Oct 13 12:30:28 <alphaone> log_to = file, log_destination = /path/to/file
Oct 13 12:30:37 <alphaone> and log_level = DEBUG
Oct 13 12:32:02 <emilis_info> aren't log_to and log_destination redundant?
Oct 13 12:32:27 <mickeyl> no
Oct 13 12:32:29 <mickeyl> see
Oct 13 12:32:32 <mickeyl> log_to = stderr
Oct 13 12:32:34 <mickeyl> log_to = syslog
Oct 13 12:32:36 <mickeyl> log_to = file
Oct 13 12:32:40 <mickeyl> for the latter you need
Oct 13 12:32:44 <mickeyl> log_destination = /tmp/foo/bar
Oct 13 12:33:37 <emilis_info> aaaah
Oct 13 12:33:41 <emilis_info> now I get it :)
Oct 13 12:33:44 <emilis_info> thx
Oct 13 12:34:19 <mickeyl> np
Oct 13 12:34:24 <emilis_info> :)
Oct 13 12:34:42 <emilis_info> so... should I debug just gsmd, or something else?
Oct 13 12:34:55 <mickeyl> best thing is probably to make it [frameworkd]
Oct 13 12:34:57 <mickeyl> hence globally
Oct 13 12:35:03 <mickeyl> so we have as much stuff as possible
Oct 13 12:35:10 <mickeyl> and then do your phone calls etc.
Oct 13 12:35:18 <mickeyl> and we see what's happening
Oct 13 12:35:28 <emilis_info> ok
Oct 13 12:35:36 <emilis_info> where do I send the logs after this?
Oct 13 12:35:54 <mickeyl> smartphones-userland
Oct 13 12:35:56 <rhkfin> Anyone have their hands on evince? Some kind of 'close' function is needed in the presentation mode: you only can close (=kill) it with ssh or shutdown Freerunner..
Oct 13 12:35:58 <mickeyl> @linuxtogo.lorg
Oct 13 12:36:01 <mickeyl> or... rather
Oct 13 12:36:05 <mickeyl> to me directly
Oct 13 12:36:08 <mickeyl> since it may contain private data
Oct 13 12:36:17 <mickeyl> mickey@openmoko.org then
Oct 13 12:36:30 <raster> i really need to make power button pop up a control menu
Oct 13 12:36:36 <raster> not do the whole hold to power down
Oct 13 12:36:37 <raster> and suspend
Oct 13 12:36:47 <mickeyl> ya
Oct 13 12:36:50 <raster> and that means getting aux/power as keys again.
Oct 13 12:36:50 <mickeyl> like i did in 2007
Oct 13 12:36:52 <emilis_info> I'll strip the PIN from logs
Oct 13 12:36:53 <raster> yup
Oct 13 12:36:56 <raster> thats the good way
Oct 13 12:37:01 <raster> we have so few buttons
Oct 13 12:37:03 <emilis_info> I doubt there will be anything else personal :)
Oct 13 12:37:06 <raster> dotn dedicate them to 1 thing
Oct 13 12:37:11 <raster> use them as an emergency control
Oct 13 12:37:12 <mickeyl> people want a short press to go to suspend 
Oct 13 12:37:19 <mickeyl> but will enjoy a hold for a menu
Oct 13 12:37:32 <raster> mickeyl:  hmm
Oct 13 12:37:38 <mickeyl> i still need to talk to the kernel folks wrt. supressing power keys on resume
Oct 13 12:37:41 <raster> well i would opt for short press for pmenu
Oct 13 12:37:43 <raster> long for shutdown
Oct 13 12:37:47 <raster> myself...
Oct 13 12:37:52 <raster> but its all configurable!
Oct 13 12:38:02 <raster> as long as i'm allowed to expose the config dialogs...
Oct 13 12:38:04 <raster> which i will..
Oct 13 12:38:05 <raster> damnit
Oct 13 12:38:30 <mickeyl> heh
Oct 13 12:38:38 <SpeedEvil> Hide them!
Oct 13 12:38:48 <SpeedEvil> Put them only on a gesture interface!
Oct 13 12:38:55 <SpeedEvil> And post the dances on youtube!
Oct 13 12:39:01 <raster> i need to do surgery to e's default config dialogs
Oct 13 12:39:10 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: :D
Oct 13 12:39:19 <raster> but for at least some i have a plan that hopefulyl will make them work on a small screen like the fr "out of the box"
Oct 13 12:39:26 <raster> anwyay
Oct 13 12:39:29 <SpeedEvil> :)
Oct 13 12:39:30 <BobOfDoom> hmm.. I wonder if we can add a blood sensor..
Oct 13 12:39:31 <raster> back to fixing up illumes app control
Oct 13 12:39:36 <raster> that silly window list with HOME
Oct 13 12:39:37 <raster> has to go
Oct 13 12:39:41 <BobOfDoom> make ritual sacrifice part of the incantation to open config dialog
Oct 13 12:39:44 <raster> (well become an option)
Oct 13 12:39:59 <Kred> Hi ho! Hey I've been trying to identify a way to program for OM. Could someone give me a hint, if Qt app is a good option?
Oct 13 12:41:18 <raster> if u ask me... i don't like qt
Oct 13 12:41:28 <raster> and forcing everyone to either pay a license fee
Oct 13 12:41:36 <mickeyl> sure, Qt is an amazing app framework if you like C++
Oct 13 12:41:39 <raster> or make their stuff gpl goes against my ideas of open/freedom
Oct 13 12:41:46 <mickeyl> just check whether it's fast enough for you on the FR
Oct 13 12:41:48 <raster> and i'm not a fan of c++
Oct 13 12:41:49 <raster> but...
Oct 13 12:41:51 <raster> that's me
Oct 13 12:41:51 <raster> :)
Oct 13 12:41:53 <bubak> kred: the easiest way to start for me was fso
Oct 13 12:42:02 <Kred> No no I. I want to be as free as possible
Oct 13 12:42:14 <Kred> I was thinking of Python, but wiki didn't have a lot about it
Oct 13 12:42:40 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r8b30ba2ef856 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (qtopia-phone-x11/qtopia.sh qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb): Revert "[qtopia] Remove LD_LIBRARY_PATH from the profile"
Oct 13 12:42:40 <Kred> I'm not quite sure what combination (FSO + something..) is the "best"
Oct 13 12:42:59 <bubak> kred: if fso will be your choice, the freesmartphone wiki has some tutorials and honts to start
Oct 13 12:43:00 <mickeyl> first decide on the language you like
Oct 13 12:43:03 <mickeyl> then decide on the toolkit
Oct 13 12:43:09 <mickeyl> imo
Oct 13 12:43:21 <mickeyl> (depending on the app constraints, of course)
Oct 13 12:44:05 <Kred> I can do any language so that's not a problem
Oct 13 12:44:33 <raster> generally choose the language you know best
Oct 13 12:44:36 <raster> but
Oct 13 12:44:39 <raster> it depends
Oct 13 12:44:43 <Kred> bubak: I'll do that. What are you using atm?
Oct 13 12:44:47 <raster> what kind of app is it
Oct 13 12:44:51 <raster> compute intensive?
Oct 13 12:44:55 <raster> interactive (game)?
Oct 13 12:45:05 <raster> simple basic widgets + filling in forms?
Oct 13 12:45:07 <raster> ...
Oct 13 12:45:19 <raster> in fact first decide WHAT u want to make
Oct 13 12:45:30 <raster> THEN decide what toolkit for whihc lang may help best
Oct 13 12:45:40 <raster> then weigh your toolkit optiosn and language prefs
Oct 13 12:45:43 <raster> based on that
Oct 13 12:45:50 <Kred> raster: not cpu intesive. Viewing picture feed over wlan
Oct 13 12:46:08 <Kred> Right. That sounds smart
Oct 13 12:46:11 <BobOfDoom> Kred: like a slideshow?
Oct 13 12:47:15 <Kred> BobOfDoom: no.. Actually I haven't looked up the details. It's just a security camera over here that has some sort of feed that browser can display
Oct 13 12:47:50 <raster> hmm
Oct 13 12:47:55 <Kred> I'd guess gif since it updates like every second or something
Oct 13 12:48:00 <raster> so actually its compute intensive
Oct 13 12:48:03 <raster> oh
Oct 13 12:48:07 <raster> once a second
Oct 13 12:48:22 <raster> you have a lot of freedom there
Oct 13 12:48:25 <Kred> But I was interested of your opinions how to break in my self
Oct 13 12:48:28 <BobOfDoom> mm
Oct 13 12:48:28 <raster> python is probably adequate
Oct 13 12:48:53 <raster> not my chocie tho
Oct 13 12:48:55 <raster> i'd do it in c
Oct 13 12:48:58 <raster> and use efl
Oct 13 12:49:00 <raster> but...
Oct 13 12:49:01 <zash> Kred: online webcams usualy is jpeg. reloading once a sec or something
Oct 13 12:49:02 <raster> i'm biased
Oct 13 12:49:03 <raster> :)
Oct 13 12:49:05 <Kred> I've been reading blogs, wiki and community list and lurking here reading people chat. I've been trying to find the best way to start.
Oct 13 12:49:34 <raster> (as iu know the app would be really small and simple in c and efl as efl can alreayd handle all the http fetching and loading.displan and scaling of the image and any basic ui i need)
Oct 13 12:49:49 <Kred> raster: that's good to know
Oct 13 12:49:50 <zash> bash
Oct 13 12:49:51 <zash> ftw
Oct 13 12:49:54 <raster> but..
Oct 13 12:49:57 <raster> i'm biased
Oct 13 12:49:59 <raster> :)
Oct 13 12:50:11 <raster> i wrote most of efl's core
Oct 13 12:50:12 <raster> :)
Oct 13 12:50:17 <raster> and i'm a c-whore
Oct 13 12:50:20 <raster> if its not c
Oct 13 12:50:25 <raster> its not programming
Oct 13 12:50:29 <raster> (unless its asm)
Oct 13 12:50:29 <raster> :)
Oct 13 12:50:33 <Kred> ouch :D
Oct 13 12:50:47 <zash> while true; do wget http://thewebcam/image.jpg; x-view-image image.jpg & sleep 1 && kill %1; done
Oct 13 12:50:48 * raster <- C whore
Oct 13 12:51:02 <Kred> what about brainfuck?
Oct 13 12:51:04 <BobOfDoom> zash: heh.. yeah that's what I was thinking too
Oct 13 12:51:14 <Kred> zash: that's too easy :P
Oct 13 12:51:20 <zash> BobOfDoom: duno if the parralelism works thou
Oct 13 12:51:30 <zash> Kred: easy = good
Oct 13 12:51:37 <Kred> Ja
Oct 13 12:51:57 <zash> less code = awesome
Oct 13 12:52:05 <Kred> What do you think.. is it going to be easy to get Cisco VPN client to work on FR?
Oct 13 12:52:21 <BobOfDoom> Kred: well your main options with Python are PyGTK, PyQT, and EFL (although there's not bindings for everything in EFL)
Oct 13 12:52:32 <BobOfDoom> wxWidgets sucks on FR
Oct 13 12:52:40 <BobOfDoom> it's slow as hell
Oct 13 12:52:44 <BobOfDoom> at least when I tried it
Oct 13 12:52:50 <zash> Kred: is there a cisco vpn client that works on random whatever random linux dist?
Oct 13 12:52:54 <max_posedon> wxWidgets sucks at all)
Oct 13 12:53:00 <zash> wxruby!
Oct 13 12:53:07 <Kred> zash: there should be yes
Oct 13 12:53:23 <Kred> I'm not sure if it has a guiless option
Oct 13 12:53:49 <Kred> That'd make sure it would work, but if it insists on using say GTK or Qt..
Oct 13 12:54:10 <zash> vpn .. with gui?
Oct 13 12:54:12 <zash> what le hell
Oct 13 12:54:34 <BobOfDoom> oh, and I suppose there's Tk.. I never looked at it though
Oct 13 12:54:37 <emilis_info> whoa... can't open dialer/contacts/messages in zhone...
Oct 13 12:54:39 <Kred> Well that's what it is with Cisco and Mac. Again, I'm not sure if there's  option not to have such
Oct 13 12:54:51 <emilis_info> and frameworkd.conf log is not working
Oct 13 12:55:15 <zash> Kred: iduno abouth cisco, but openvpn don't need any gui
Oct 13 12:55:25 <zash> a vpn driver shouldn need a gui
Oct 13 12:55:49 <Kred> zash: right. Well I have to test that one out
Oct 13 12:56:47 <zash> Kred: you could probably ask cisco
Oct 13 12:58:47 <cuqot> vpnc works on the fr  
Oct 13 12:58:49 <Kred> roger that
Oct 13 12:59:31 <cuqot> http://rabenfrost.net/celtune/ipk/armv4t/vpnc_0.5.1-r0_armv4t.ipk
Oct 13 13:01:07 <Kred> Thanks
Oct 13 13:01:39 <cuqot> ywc
Oct 13 13:34:39 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r8c62554c07b7 10/packages/accelges/accelges_svn.bb: [accelges] PV fixes
Oct 13 13:34:39 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * raf51b0a596f5 10/packages/remoko/remoko-server_svn.bb: [remoko-server] PV fixes
Oct 13 13:35:03 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r8a737bf521d4 10/packages/remoko/remoko_svn.bb: [remoko] PV fixes
Oct 13 13:35:05 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * rb5553f8907d0 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (qtopia-phone-x11/qtopia.sh qtopia-phone-x11_git.bb): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.dev
Oct 13 13:35:05 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * rcf525f00c1dc 10/packages/smpeg/smpeg_svn.bb: [smpeg] PV fixes
Oct 13 13:39:29 <sledgeas> hello
Oct 13 13:39:55 <sledgeas> is FR (om2008.9) charging itself (USB/AC) when suspended?
Oct 13 13:41:11 <avtobiff> how do i type numbers with the on screen keyboard in om2008.9?
Oct 13 13:41:40 <max_posedon> avtobiff, check the topic)
Oct 13 13:42:13 <avtobiff> max_posedon, thanks. sorry for not looking there first.
Oct 13 13:48:12 <avtobiff> \o/
Oct 13 13:49:15 <avtobiff> it is possible to have om on nand flash and then (for instance) debin on the microsd, at the same time right?!
Oct 13 13:50:09 <max_posedon> yes
Oct 13 13:53:48 <sledgeas> is FR (om2008.9) charging itself (USB/AC) when suspended?
Oct 13 13:54:01 <[Rui]> raster: after reading your explanation of how the predictive typing works, I tried it out and loved it instantly. now all I need is to make a portuguese word statistics file :)
Oct 13 13:55:58 <raster> [Rui]: thats a problem as the utf8 stuff is broken
Oct 13 13:56:13 <raster> so u'll need to skip words with é ñ etc. etc.
Oct 13 13:56:15 <[Rui]> raster: could you repeat that please? I just cleaned my screen a fraction of second after you answered :)
Oct 13 13:56:24 <raster> [Rui]: thats a problem as the utf8 stuff is broken
Oct 13 13:56:27 <raster> so u'll need to skip words with é ñ etc. etc.
Oct 13 13:56:31 <raster> i do need to fix it
Oct 13 13:56:42 <raster> and thats scheduled for a dictionary format revamp
Oct 13 13:56:46 <[Rui]> raster: yes, 1st version would have stuff like: não => nao :)
Oct 13 13:56:51 <raster> but... got a milliong things to do
Oct 13 13:56:55 <raster> cool
Oct 13 13:57:02 <raster> as long as you keep it in ascii it will work
Oct 13 13:57:18 <raster> if u dont like the correction - just use terminal kbd layout
Oct 13 13:57:22 <[Rui]> raster: any easy 1, 2, 3 instruction set for making the dawg files?
Oct 13 13:57:23 <raster> or make your own layouts u like
Oct 13 13:57:24 <raster> :)
Oct 13 13:57:37 <raster> the illume kbd doenst use dawg files
Oct 13 13:57:40 <raster> plain text
Oct 13 13:57:46 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r700269a4c10d 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
Oct 13 13:57:46 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: odevice: fix parameter direction in org.freesmartphone.Device.IdleNotifier.SetState and org.freesmartphone.Device.IdleNotifier.GetState. Thanks Ainulindale for
Oct 13 13:57:46 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: spotting.
Oct 13 13:57:49 <raster> cat them :)
Oct 13 13:57:52 <raster> word freq
Oct 13 13:57:53 <[Rui]> raster: or that :) ok...
Oct 13 13:57:54 <raster> word2 freq
Oct 13 13:57:58 <raster> etrc.
Oct 13 13:57:58 <raster> BUT
Oct 13 13:58:00 <raster> that will change
Oct 13 13:58:40 <[Rui]> if it still has the word + freq data, the work to do one kind of file isn't wasted anyway, how soon you expect that to be changed?
Oct 13 13:58:42 <[Rui]> 1 month? 
Oct 13 13:58:44 <[Rui]> more?
Oct 13 13:59:13 <raster> i donyt know
Oct 13 13:59:20 <raster> i have a mountain of things i want to do
Oct 13 13:59:21 <Dave> Hello Raster
Oct 13 13:59:22 <raster> need to
Oct 13 13:59:26 <raster> but no one pays me for this
Oct 13 13:59:32 <raster> so its "when i get to it"
Oct 13 13:59:32 <Dave> I got your image for the treo on hack&dev :)
Oct 13 13:59:54 <raster> Dave:  :)
Oct 13 14:00:07 <raster> slowly.. the world will be conqored...
Oct 13 14:00:11 <[Rui]> raster: done when it's done is a fine enough measure for me :)
Oct 13 14:00:17 <BobOfDoom> :D
Oct 13 14:00:19 <Dave> Yeah, you must be well renowned by now.
Oct 13 14:00:40 <raster> i'm moving that silly window lost from the top-shelf putting back the old 3 big buttons i originally had in illume
Oct 13 14:01:02 <raster> Dave:  my mission for now is to conquor 2 phone platforms
Oct 13 14:01:09 <raster> have a fully usable "desktop shell"
Oct 13 14:01:14 <raster> ie stuff to manage and launch apps
Oct 13 14:01:20 <raster> and otherwise get system status
Oct 13 14:01:27 <raster> configure that stuff
Oct 13 14:01:35 <raster> and do input (eg vkbd)
Oct 13 14:01:42 <raster> ie all the bits outside actual apps
Oct 13 14:01:58 <raster> THEN my plan is to start conquoring just the phone bits
Oct 13 14:02:04 <Dave> Raster :)
Oct 13 14:02:19 <raster> and thats when fso integration should get much more on my todo list
Oct 13 14:02:29 <Dave> Maybe someday I'll invest in your domination :)
Oct 13 14:02:37 <raster> as i intend to provide dialler, contacts, sms (Edit/read)
Oct 13 14:02:55 <raster> and at that stage... "job done"
Oct 13 14:02:56 <Dave> Raster, I also just installed angstrom and using opie on a zire72
Oct 13 14:03:04 <raster> i'll worry abotu what comes next after that
Oct 13 14:03:04 <raster> :)
Oct 13 14:03:06 <Dave> to try it out, so far it's not bad :)
Oct 13 14:03:13 <raster> maybe i'll do a redo of rage
Oct 13 14:03:16 <raster> using elementary
Oct 13 14:03:25 <raster> and make a mini video/audio media center for mobile
Oct 13 14:03:27 <Dave> yeah, seems like since you leaked that info, people are all over it
Oct 13 14:03:41 <Dave> Personally, I don't see what the big deal is.
Oct 13 14:03:59 <raster> dunno
Oct 13 14:04:01 <Dave> Then again, I'm not a layman user, who has relied on say, myth, their entire life.
Oct 13 14:04:09 <raster> this is just me conquoring the mobile/mebedded world with e
Oct 13 14:04:12 <raster> in tow...
Oct 13 14:04:13 <raster> :)
Oct 13 14:04:14 <Dave> Eventually I got tired of it and just rolled my own interface.
Oct 13 14:04:18 <Dave> hehe
Oct 13 14:04:22 <Dave> Good job, Raster :)
Oct 13 14:04:23 <raster> same
Oct 13 14:04:28 <raster> well i didnt get tired of myth
Oct 13 14:04:30 <raster> i looked at it
Oct 13 14:04:31 <Dave> Slowly your evil plan is coming to fruition!
Oct 13 14:04:32 <raster> went "ewwwww"
Oct 13 14:04:34 <raster> and rolled my own
Oct 13 14:04:36 <Dave> right
Oct 13 14:04:46 <raster> the great bit is
Oct 13 14:04:47 <Dave> I didn't say eww, but I said, this is not what I want!
Oct 13 14:04:51 <raster> efl just does so much for u already
Oct 13 14:04:58 <raster> its more like a technic lego set
Oct 13 14:04:59 <Dave> Isn't it great?
Oct 13 14:05:01 <Dave> YEAH
Oct 13 14:05:07 <raster> u just plug the pieces together to make anything u like
Oct 13 14:05:11 <Dave> you just put the pieces together in a different configuration to suit you :)
Oct 13 14:05:14 <raster> you do need knowledge
Oct 13 14:05:15 <Dave> ! :)
Oct 13 14:05:17 <raster> but if u have it
Oct 13 14:05:22 <raster> nothing is a barrier
Oct 13 14:05:23 <Dave> you seem to have a wealth of it ;)
Oct 13 14:05:29 <Dave> maybe that's why you're so awesome :p
Oct 13 14:05:34 <raster> hahaha
Oct 13 14:05:34 <raster> nah
Oct 13 14:05:38 <Dave> you can whip things together in no itme
Oct 13 14:05:39 <Dave> time
Oct 13 14:05:47 <raster> i've just been doing this for so long its burned into the inside of my skull
Oct 13 14:07:14 <raster> man it looks so much nicer to have the 3 buttons back
Oct 13 14:07:40 <mickeyl> fixed X?
Oct 13 14:07:48 <raster> ?
Oct 13 14:07:51 <raster> oh no
Oct 13 14:07:54 <mickeyl> oh soft buttons
Oct 13 14:07:57 <mickeyl> not the hw buttons
Oct 13 14:07:58 <raster> u know the original 3 button illume?
Oct 13 14:08:03 <mickeyl> yap
Oct 13 14:08:06 <raster> apps/hom e/close
Oct 13 14:08:10 <raster> i'm bringin it back
Oct 13 14:08:13 <mickeyl> cool
Oct 13 14:08:14 <raster> its an option
Oct 13 14:08:21 <raster> and by default on in illume
Oct 13 14:08:29 <raster> asu can have it off and keep their home + window list
Oct 13 14:09:07 <Dave> heh
Oct 13 14:09:24 <Dave> raster, good shit
Oct 13 14:09:32 <Dave> yeah that three-button was pretty sweet
Oct 13 14:09:42 <Dave> heh, asu
Oct 13 14:09:57 <Dave> now, if only I could get usb networking working on this palm...
Oct 13 14:10:14 <raster> i personally think its nicer
Oct 13 14:10:19 <raster> its easier to "go home"
Oct 13 14:10:21 <raster> easier to close
Oct 13 14:10:26 <Dave> sure
Oct 13 14:10:30 <BobOfDoom> Dave: on treo?
Oct 13 14:10:40 <raster> and the window-list of other apps is mostly hidden from u at first click so not to confuse
Oct 13 14:10:45 <raster> but its just 1 more click away
Oct 13 14:11:51 <mickeyl> like that
Oct 13 14:12:19 <Dave> nah, on this z72
Oct 13 14:12:22 <Flyser> raster: is there still enough space for the status icons? (gsm, battery, wlan, ...)
Oct 13 14:12:28 <Dave> getting errors :|
Oct 13 14:12:44 <Flyser> (speaking of the freerunner screen)
Oct 13 14:12:50 <raster> Flyser:  yes
Oct 13 14:12:55 <raster> that is the same as before
Oct 13 14:13:33 <dolf1074> small question: does anybody how to launch the message program of the om2008.9 from the terminal?
Oct 13 14:13:50 <dolf1074> small question: does anybody know how to launch the message program of the om2008.9 from the terminal?
Oct 13 14:14:01 <Flyser> dolf1074: my guess: openmoko-messages?
Oct 13 14:14:21 <dolf1074> that's a command my freerunner don't recognize
Oct 13 14:14:39 <Dave> oh haha oops
Oct 13 14:15:23 <dolf1074> should it in the om 2008.9?
Oct 13 14:16:10 <beni_> it would be cool that if someone clicks on the battery icon, it will show how much energy is left
Oct 13 14:16:41 <raster> beni_: i'll add that stuff to e/eillume when i get to it
Oct 13 14:16:52 <cjb_ie> what, in mWh?
Oct 13 14:17:21 <[Rui]> btw I got back to Om2008.9 after trying raster's FSO. did anyone manage to get sound on calls?
Oct 13 14:17:30 <Dave> damnit
Oct 13 14:17:45 <Dave> Starting interface failed.
Oct 13 14:17:58 <mickeyl> i bet that sound problem is just a missing dependency
Oct 13 14:18:04 <raster> ok
Oct 13 14:18:08 <mickeyl> but until people send me logs, i will not investigate
Oct 13 14:18:10 <raster> snoozies
Oct 13 14:18:12 <mickeyl> since it's too much digging in the dark
Oct 13 14:18:14 <mickeyl> g'night raster
Oct 13 14:18:20 <raster> nite!
Oct 13 14:18:38 <[Rui]> raster: nite
Oct 13 14:19:11 <Dave> later raster
Oct 13 14:19:15 <[Rui]> mickeyl: I would bet it too, what kind of logs would you want? logread?
Oct 13 14:19:28 <Dave> anyone here ever used opie?
Oct 13 14:19:35 <mickeyl> see OpenmokoFramework => how to provide logs
Oct 13 14:19:39 <[Rui]> mickeyl: you do understand I'm talking about raster's FSO pointed to the FSO's repo...
Oct 13 14:19:51 <[Rui]> mickeyl: and not plain FSO
Oct 13 14:19:57 <mickeyl> yes i understand that
Oct 13 14:20:11 <[Rui]> mickeyl: ok, I thought you'd only check stuff on OM's images :)
Oct 13 14:20:30 <mickeyl> if i can help by inspecting a log, i will
Oct 13 14:20:35 <mickeyl> i have no time to flash all kinds of images though
Oct 13 14:20:47 * mickeyl is former Opie core developer, but resigned two years ago
Oct 13 14:20:55 <mickeyl> Dave: does that count? :)
Oct 13 14:21:33 <Dave> hehe
Oct 13 14:21:45 <Dave> Well, maybe, not sure how much you actually USED it ;)
Oct 13 14:21:49 <mickeyl> true
Oct 13 14:21:54 <[Rui]> mickeyl: of course... I've mainly been sticking with 2008.x because of bugs...
Oct 13 14:22:00 <[Rui]> mickeyl: is that short sighted?
Oct 13 14:22:14 <mickeyl> always depends on what you actually need
Oct 13 14:22:18 <mickeyl> day2day phone
Oct 13 14:22:18 <Dave> mickeyl, just having some usb networking problems I'm not sure you could help alleviate :)
Oct 13 14:22:20 <mickeyl> or devel platofrm
Oct 13 14:22:21 <Dave> right
Oct 13 14:22:31 * [Rui] shleps... just finished a wicked beer+mustard sauce chicken
Oct 13 14:22:36 <mickeyl> Dave: ah, well, that's more or less out of the scope of Opie and more system level
Oct 13 14:22:54 <mickeyl> [Rui]: the good thing is Om2009 will be using FSO
Oct 13 14:23:02 <mickeyl> then we all share a common base
Oct 13 14:23:13 <mickeyl> since 3rd party distros will hopefully also use FSO
Oct 13 14:23:22 <[Rui]> mickeyl: I need a day2day phone, which is the other reason I am with 2008.x, but I'm willing to try devel stuff at weekends or when I'm in vacations (as I will  be until wednesday inclusve)
Oct 13 14:23:23 <mickeyl> (with minor exceptions such as Nokia, of course)
Oct 13 14:23:43 <[Rui]> mickeyl: lol
Oct 13 14:23:57 <Dave> mickeyl: yeah, I guess :|
Oct 13 14:24:07 <Flyser> raster: do you have any roadmap for elementary?
Oct 13 14:24:34 <dolf1074> mickeyl: Om2009 around summer? or earlier?
Oct 13 14:24:57 <Dave> mickeyl, yeah, considering it fails to "Start" the Loopback device (lo) ...
Oct 13 14:25:01 <Dave> I'd say there's a problem ;)
Oct 13 14:25:06 <mickeyl> dolf1074: that's hard to predict as it is currently in its infancies. Om tries to launch Om2009 w/ 03 whenever this will be ready...
Oct 13 14:26:05 <Pyrasi> hi all
Oct 13 14:26:53 <Pyrasi> I just installed Debian on my moko...any suggestions for programs that run well? (besides the ones listed on the wiki)
Oct 13 14:26:58 <Pyrasi> maybe a game or two?
Oct 13 14:27:39 <Flyser> Pyrasi: games ... numpty physics, duke3d, ...
Oct 13 14:27:46 <dolf1074> yeah, but what are the expectations? (I know the future can't be predicted and that there are many things you handle. But there is a difference between starting something today and wanted finished by summer or within 2 months. Even if you only look at the motivation of the people working on it)
Oct 13 14:27:47 <Dave> heh
Oct 13 14:28:17 <avtobiff> i have followed http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart#Set_up_USB-based_networking.2C_SSH_and_update but i am still not able to install openmoko-mediaplayer2
Oct 13 14:29:12 <avtobiff> my freerunner seems to be able to perform opkg update, but it is not able to ping or wget anything
Oct 13 14:31:38 <gromez> mickeyl: for the "no sound problem", you just need a log of a call or a complete log ?
Oct 13 14:31:44 <Pyrasi> Flyser:  oh...are there ports of those for debian? 
Oct 13 14:32:11 <Pyrasi> well....i guess i knew numptyphysics had one...duke3d i didnt though
Oct 13 14:32:30 <mickeyl> gromez: a full log. from starting frameworkd until the end of the actual calll
Oct 13 14:32:38 <mickeyl> w/ log_level=DEBUG at best
Oct 13 14:32:49 <Flyser> Pyrasi: no need to port, thanks to the linux kernel the binary formats of oe and debian are compatible :p
Oct 13 14:33:28 <Pyrasi> oh...nice
Oct 13 14:33:45 <gromez> mickeyl: ok i'll do that and reboot
Oct 13 14:35:43 <gromez> mickeyl: if i set a file path to "log_to", it will log into that file ?
Oct 13 14:38:21 <mickeyl> no
Oct 13 14:38:23 <mickeyl> if you set
Oct 13 14:38:23 <gromez> mickeyl: nvm, found it
Oct 13 14:38:24 <mickeyl> log_to = file
Oct 13 14:38:29 <mickeyl> then log_destination = /var/foo/tmp
Oct 13 14:38:36 <gromez> yes, thanks 
Oct 13 14:40:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07libframeworkd-glib * r731d2590e669 10/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): 
Oct 13 14:40:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: - Draft of Device.PowerSupply.
Oct 13 14:40:00 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: - Typo in IdleNotifier header.
Oct 13 14:40:01 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07libframeworkd-glib * r44ac0a73055c 10/src/frameworkd-glib-dbus.c: - Included power supply in main. (typo)
Oct 13 14:41:38 <exactt> avtobiff: i also try to get my network running...
Oct 13 14:42:18 <exactt> what are you running on the openmoko and what is you rdesktop distro?
Oct 13 14:42:47 <avtobiff> exactt, i got it now
Oct 13 14:44:03 <exactt> avttobiff: what was your problem? how did you solve it?
Oct 13 14:44:21 <avtobiff> exactt, don't know exactly what the problem was tough but it works now. just reconfigured the ip forwarding on the host computer
Oct 13 14:45:27 <avtobiff> exactt, and added rules to forward DNS queries
Oct 13 14:46:09 <exactt> avttobiff: okay thx. also had it running already, but than i installed FDOM and something must have changed...
Oct 13 14:54:43 <gromez> mickeyl: just send you my log file
Oct 13 14:59:03 <mickeyl> cool, thanks
Oct 13 14:59:05 <mickeyl> will have a look
Oct 13 15:05:17 <mwester> mickeyl:  Kernel changes for resume/power button --- I recall the email, but I'm not sure what needs to be suppressed -- I assume that the initial power button even upon resume is to be eaten?
Oct 13 15:06:19 <mickeyl> yeah
Oct 13 15:06:29 <mickeyl> that would make userland's life simpler
Oct 13 15:06:34 <mickeyl> i think other systems do that
Oct 13 15:06:55 <mickeyl> swallowing the hold and resume for the 'awakening' press
Oct 13 15:07:01 <Pyrasi> can you install opks in debian?  can i just type deb -i on an opkg?
Oct 13 15:07:02 <mickeyl> s/hold/press/
Oct 13 15:07:03 <apt> mickeyl meant: swallowing the press and resume for the 'awakening' press
Oct 13 15:07:04 <mickeyl> s/resume/release/
Oct 13 15:07:04 <apt> mickeyl meant: swallowing the hold and release for the 'awakening' press
Oct 13 15:07:09 <mickeyl> heh
Oct 13 15:07:14 <mickeyl> apt can't cope w/ multiple sed's
Oct 13 15:07:17 <mickeyl> ~lart apt
Oct 13 15:07:17 * apt shoots mickeyl in his sleep
Oct 13 15:07:33 <mwester> Ok, since nobody has done that since your email, I'll take a look.   Are there other wake events that need similar suppression?   (Aux?  Headphone button?)
Oct 13 15:09:05 <mickeyl> AUX is no longer resuming
Oct 13 15:09:16 <mickeyl> for headphone it's ok as we need to deal with the headphone event
Oct 13 15:09:22 <mickeyl> (changing audio scenario)
Oct 13 15:09:26 <mickeyl> so it's really just the power button
Oct 13 15:09:31 <mickeyl> thanks a lot!
Oct 13 15:09:34 <LaF0rge> hi all (esp. mickey)
Oct 13 15:09:47 <mickeyl> moinmoin
Oct 13 15:09:55 <LaF0rge> mickey: I have a hacked-up-by-hand upstart 0.5.0 based FSO image
Oct 13 15:09:59 <mickeyl> whew
Oct 13 15:10:04 <mickeyl> URI?
Oct 13 15:10:26 <LaF0rge> mickey: not online right now. I'm trying to get it into OE but fighting strange autoconf + OE interaction for the last 5 hours 
Oct 13 15:10:46 <Dave> Mwester!
Oct 13 15:10:54 <mickeyl> LaF0rge: ya, someone broke it
Oct 13 15:10:59 <mickeyl> LaF0rge: the powers are fixing it atm.
Oct 13 15:11:03 <LaF0rge> upstart 0.5.0 really doesn't like the autoreconf
Oct 13 15:11:04 <mickeyl> LaF0rge: (gettext/e2fsprogs/)
Oct 13 15:11:07 <mickeyl> oh
Oct 13 15:11:15 <mickeyl> that's another thing then
Oct 13 15:11:18 <mickeyl> beat it to it! :)
Oct 13 15:11:32 <LaF0rge> mickeyl: well, right now i would love if there was a way to just skip autoreconf 
Oct 13 15:11:45 <mickeyl> try:
Oct 13 15:11:48 <mickeyl> do_configure() {
Oct 13 15:11:55 <mickeyl>  gnu-configize
Oct 13 15:11:57 <mickeyl>  oe_runconf
Oct 13 15:11:58 <mickeyl> }
Oct 13 15:13:58 <Dave> configize?
Oct 13 15:15:12 <mwester> bend the language to your needs, not the other way around ;)    (That's why I can't understand the point of Latin ;)
Oct 13 15:15:36 <Dave> :p
Oct 13 15:18:56 <LaF0rge> mickey: thanks, works
Oct 13 15:20:54 <Amorphous> is it still correct that an updated 2008.8 is the same as an updated 2008.9 ?
Oct 13 15:21:16 <Tm_T> Amorphous: should be
Oct 13 15:21:34 <Amorphous> thank you
Oct 13 15:22:02 <Tm_T> though I'm merely a bystander so how should I know (;)
Oct 13 15:26:08 <dolf1074> Amorphous: It's still that way
Oct 13 15:26:39 <Amorphous> ok thank you
Oct 13 15:27:37 <Pyrasi> can you install opks in debian?  can i just type deb -i on an opkg?
Oct 13 15:30:14 <lindi-> Pyrasi: better just create debian packages?
Oct 13 15:31:32 <dolf1074> Does somebody knows why the latest 'testing' images are from Tuesday last week?
Oct 13 15:32:28 <mwester> Yes
Oct 13 15:32:38 <dolf1074> why?
Oct 13 15:32:44 <mwester> Build failures.
Oct 13 15:32:50 <dolf1074> ah ok.
Oct 13 15:32:54 <mwester> I understand someone is fixing them.
Oct 13 15:33:30 <dolf1074> So it's not because they have stopped with the base image or something like that.
Oct 13 15:33:42 <dolf1074> That's a releave 
Oct 13 15:37:31 <XorA> I probably should fixup the scripts to push the build report to devel@
Oct 13 15:37:50 <XorA> or use oestats like zecke suggested
Oct 13 15:40:51 <avtobiff> what is the keylock package named?
Oct 13 15:44:45 <Ghiottone> hello. does anybody know if it is possible to use neo1973's debug board with an hp ipaq 3670 ?
Oct 13 15:45:12 <Ghiottone> s/3670/3760/
Oct 13 15:45:12 <apt> Ghiottone meant: hello. does anybody know if it is possible to use neo1973's debug board with an hp ipaq 3760 ?
Oct 13 15:45:20 <mickeyl> it's a plain JTAG board, that should work if you have access to the ipaq's JTAG points
Oct 13 15:47:30 <Ghiottone> mickeyl, great thanks!
Oct 13 15:49:02 <mwester> mickeyl:  There are two potential events reported on resume -- power pressed, and power released -- I assume that both should be suppressed?
Oct 13 15:52:50 <mickeyl> mwester: yes
Oct 13 15:53:04 <mickeyl> i think everything else would be inconsistent
Oct 13 15:57:21 <mwester> Ok.
Oct 13 15:57:50 <PBeck> hi
Oct 13 16:40:51 <CIA-22> freesmartphone.org: 03niklas.coding 07libframeworkd-glib * r2b3a275cafe3 10/src/odeviced/frameworkd-glib-odeviced-powersupply.h: Adjusted powersupply status strings.
Oct 13 17:43:17 <[Rui]> ok! I've got a huge list of portuguese words and number of times it appears in a huge set of newspaper articles
Oct 13 17:43:39 <[Rui]> 191 millions of words
Oct 13 17:59:44 <slaxxin> is it the theme that wont install?
Oct 13 18:45:50 * Dave high-fives lynx
Oct 13 18:53:59 <ceda> curl would be nice to have
Oct 13 18:54:03 <ceda> with ssl support
Oct 13 18:54:32 <ceda> or httplib (with ssl support) in python
Oct 13 18:57:05 <Dave> micktv?
Oct 13 18:57:17 <Dave> meh, I hear rastertv is better :P
Oct 13 18:58:08 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 13 19:01:36 <Dave> yeah
Oct 13 19:01:41 <Dave> it's what all the kids are talking about these days.
Oct 13 19:01:46 <Dave> it's all the RAGE...
Oct 13 19:01:59 <Dave> heehee :P
Oct 13 19:03:37 <techiem2-r> hmm...yaknow...autofs userspace might be useful on OM so the sd card isn't mounted when it doesn't need to be...
Oct 13 19:04:09 <Dave> :o
Oct 13 19:06:03 <timur_> hey guys, does gpsd work on openmoko? or am i using it wrong? i ran the openmoko gps ui and it got a fix in 27 seconds. then i ran my small python script that connects to gpsd and asks it if it has a fix and if yes, queries the position. that script claimed no fix was found
Oct 13 19:06:20 <techiem2-r> hmm
Oct 13 19:07:36 <timur_> to query i just connected to the daemon on port 2947 and sent it s\n and it responds with GPSD,S=0
Oct 13 19:07:47 <Dave> good
Oct 13 19:07:56 <Dave> send it r
Oct 13 19:08:08 <Dave> it should start spitting out shit
Oct 13 19:08:29 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 13 19:09:13 <timur_> oh, so to make it actually try to get a fix i need to send it r?
Oct 13 19:09:33 <buffoon> hi! i now have a non working 3G SIM Card from Vodafone (Italy) and would like to add it on the wiki
Oct 13 19:09:54 <buffoon> could I give you some Details about it so I don't have to register to it?
Oct 13 19:17:16 <[Rui]> raster: I just published a portuguese dictionary, coming up at planet.openmoko.org
Oct 13 19:17:22 <Dave> timur, no, it should do it automatically, but if you, say, connect to 2947, that's what you'd send it so far as I know.
Oct 13 19:17:22 <[Rui]> raster: thanks for the hints
Oct 13 19:17:31 <Dave> Man, planet is such spam :p
Oct 13 19:17:40 <Dave> but occasionally informative... if you can even load the page.
Oct 13 19:17:48 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 13 19:18:33 <esthar> I just flashed to 2008.9, and my *goodness* it takes ages to boot up?
Oct 13 19:18:47 <Dave> Sure does :)
Oct 13 19:18:51 <Dave> Ages? 5Min?
Oct 13 19:19:13 <Dave> What did you expect? :P
Oct 13 19:19:28 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 13 19:19:38 <techiem2-r> yeah, it's not the fastest booting thing...
Oct 13 19:21:07 <timur_> Dave, thanks. i figured out why my script was failing miserably
Oct 13 19:21:21 <timur_> i was closing the connection, so gpsd would happily go to sleep
Oct 13 19:22:24 <cjb_ie> that's not the behaviour i would expect
Oct 13 19:23:14 <timur_> well, here's some empirical evidence i got: telnet to gpsd, fix is obtained quickly. then i can get the position. using the script that connects to gpsd, asks the status, closes the connection never gets a fix
Oct 13 19:24:28 <CIA-22> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r4a8799552ea1 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksums] Add checksum for yaml-0.1.1
Oct 13 19:38:53 <gurugentoo> anyone know the command line to turn off the wifi antenna?
Oct 13 19:39:15 <exactt> hey guys, just installed the base system from http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/ . i can ssh into the phone and install stuff via opkg. still the GUI installer complains it couldn't access the repository... is this a known bug?
Oct 13 19:39:54 <techiem2-r> I think it would be "echo 1 > /sys/whereverthewificardis/rf_kill"
Oct 13 19:39:57 <[Rui]> exactt: lucky you, last time I tried daily (a few days ago) I had a kernel panic
Oct 13 19:40:11 <techiem2-r> to fully turn off hte antenna
Oct 13 19:40:13 <techiem2-r> could be wrong
Oct 13 19:40:14 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 13 19:40:26 <[Rui]> I don't find an rf_kill
Oct 13 19:40:39 <techiem2-r> maybe the card doesn't support it?
Oct 13 19:40:59 <[Rui]> techiem2-r: neither anything nowhere near similar
Oct 13 19:41:36 <techiem2-r> yeah, I don't see anything either
Oct 13 19:42:27 <techiem2-r> maybe the card or driver doesn't support radio off
Oct 13 19:45:25 <gurugentoo> interestng, b/c the FDOM image has a button on the services screen for wifi on/off
Oct 13 19:45:45 <gurugentoo> maybe it doesn't actually do what I think
Oct 13 19:47:29 <techiem2-r> probably just downs the interface?
Oct 13 19:48:49 <gurugentoo> ya
Oct 13 19:49:20 <gurugentoo> does that work just as well for power savings?
Oct 13 19:50:42 <techiem2-r> I doubt it
Oct 13 19:50:44 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 13 19:50:49 <techiem2-r> but who knows
Oct 13 19:51:06 <techiem2-r> I would assume it's better than having hte interface up and scanning
Oct 13 19:55:07 <gurugentoo> so if it doesn't support rf_kill, would removing the module turn it off?
Oct 13 19:55:40 <timur_> nope
Oct 13 19:55:54 <cjb_ie> if you remove it with a soldering iron, sure :-)
Oct 13 19:56:01 <techiem2-r> if I understand it, the radio is on all the time unless it supports rf_kill
Oct 13 19:56:04 <timur_> it might actually increase your power consumption
Oct 13 19:56:16 <techiem2-r> it's just not scanning/etc. unless the interface is up
Oct 13 19:58:20 <timur_> kinda depends on the way the module is written. some cards you can scan without bringing up the interface...
Oct 13 19:58:46 <gurugentoo> hmm, so hopefully the wifi doesn't affect the battery life too much
Oct 13 19:58:55 <timur_> also, the power saving settings on the thing are enabled by default and it seems there is no way to turn them off. maybe you could use them to force it to sleep for a very long time
Oct 13 19:59:05 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 13 20:00:18 <cjb_ie> wifi has got to be turnable off fully if the device is to have a flight mode
Oct 13 20:01:15 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, there is a seperate power control
Oct 13 20:01:21 <SpeedEvil> somewhere in /sys
Oct 13 20:01:34 <SpeedEvil> that turns it off.
Oct 13 20:01:42 <techiem2-r> ah
Oct 13 20:01:47 <techiem2-r> just not in the normal place/
Oct 13 20:01:50 <techiem2-r> ?
Oct 13 20:02:05 <SpeedEvil> I don't think so, no
Oct 13 20:02:18 <gurugentoo> any name I can search for?
Oct 13 20:02:25 <gurugentoo> any idea where?
Oct 13 20:02:27 <SpeedEvil> I only looked once, and that was a while back - I have no FR :(
Oct 13 20:02:36 <SpeedEvil> find /sys -name "*power*" ?
Oct 13 20:02:42 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 13 20:02:42 <SpeedEvil> find /sys -name "*power_on*" ?
Oct 13 20:02:43 <SpeedEvil> maybe
Oct 13 20:03:13 <gurugentoo> hmm
Oct 13 20:09:59 <sledgeas> hello
Oct 13 20:10:09 <gurugentoo> there's a /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/dormant
Oct 13 20:10:44 <sledgeas> i have installed om2008.9 on my fr and did update/upgrade on the 10th of october. since then only angstrom got upgarded today. is the developement slow?
Oct 13 20:14:01 <dolf1074> sledgeas: no, their just no update on om2008.9, because they now focus on the stable image
Oct 13 20:14:09 <sledgeas> ic
Oct 13 20:14:20 <sledgeas> and which distro is now considered the best?
Oct 13 20:14:27 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 13 20:14:28 <sledgeas> (with most respect to phone calling :))
Oct 13 20:14:28 <Tm_T> sledgeas: Kubuntu
Oct 13 20:14:34 <LionKMP> :D
Oct 13 20:14:42 <sledgeas> as om2008.9 is not reliable
Oct 13 20:14:42 <techiem2-r> "which distro is the best"
Oct 13 20:14:45 <Kero> how to let bitbake build a package with debug options? dig into the bb file?
Oct 13 20:14:47 <techiem2-r> now there's fighting words
Oct 13 20:14:54 <sledgeas> techiem2-r: read me on
Oct 13 20:15:01 <techiem2-r> 2008.9's been pretty reliable for me
Oct 13 20:15:04 <techiem2-r> *shrug*
Oct 13 20:15:05 <sledgeas> in my case, best = reliable
Oct 13 20:15:08 <wurp2|working> sledgeas: qtextended
Oct 13 20:15:11 <techiem2-r> but then I don't call, get called much
Oct 13 20:15:32 <techiem2-r> yeah...qte would probably be considered overall the most stable for pure phone use....
Oct 13 20:15:33 <dolf1074> Just for phone calling:  FSO. Do you want more: Om 2008.9. Do you want everything: Qt
Oct 13 20:15:34 <sledgeas> nope, techiem2-r, i installed fresh om2008.9, once the caller doesn'ŧ hear anything, other time the receiver, and sometimes it echoes
Oct 13 20:15:44 <techiem2-r> weird
Oct 13 20:16:03 <sledgeas> all random, maybe it's because of my service provider (italy)
Oct 13 20:16:09 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 13 20:16:11 <techiem2-r> who knows
Oct 13 20:16:21 <sledgeas> if it is so uneven from person to person (me and you e.g.)
Oct 13 20:16:33 <wurp2|working> I still do have problems sometimes when a call wakes the phone in qtext
Oct 13 20:16:37 <LionKMP> is Om 2007.2 using "IPKG" or is that also "OPKG"?
Oct 13 20:16:37 <techiem2-r> such is the adventure of OM users
Oct 13 20:16:39 <wurp2|working> Otherwise, it's good
Oct 13 20:16:48 <sicu> it's just big-brother tapping in from time to time
Oct 13 20:16:53 <wurp2|working> ipkg files == opkg files
Oct 13 20:16:56 <dolf1074> LionKMP: ipkg for om 2007.2
Oct 13 20:17:14 <LionKMP> dolf1074: hehe, ok, thanks. (you saw, my mail was not clearly answered on the ML :) )
Oct 13 20:17:21 <LionKMP> doc@.
Oct 13 20:17:27 <wurp2|working> the only difference afaik is in the install proggy; I think either install app will work with either file extension
Oct 13 20:17:44 <techiem2-r> I think so
Oct 13 20:17:58 <techiem2-r> cuz according to the wiki opkg is a tweaked fork of ipkg
Oct 13 20:18:24 <LionKMP> wurp2|working: ok, I just wanted to know whether the "ipkg" command examples on the Wiki are still needed. But then, they are, if 2007.2 uses them.
Oct 13 20:19:26 <dolf1074> LionKMP: ow, didn't read the docs mailing list lately. To busy with my blog and trying to let gnuboy work. (Think I will stop the latest, I wont work)
Oct 13 20:20:01 <LionKMP> ?! won't work? :-(
Oct 13 20:20:34 <dolf1074> LionKMP: If you're screen is rotated and I want to read in every click you do, it just gives you another couple of coordinates
Oct 13 20:20:52 <dolf1074> LionKMP: So it's hard to know which button you want to click :(
Oct 13 20:21:18 <dolf1074> LionKMP: maybe if the freerunner is becoming telephatic
Oct 13 20:21:34 <dolf1074> LionKMP: or maybe when the drivers of the ??? is fixed
Oct 13 20:21:38 <LionKMP> hm, how is that possible? is that only in rotated mode? (I did not try that yet)
Oct 13 20:21:50 <samgee> wait, I thought om2008.9 was the focus of a
Oct 13 20:21:55 <samgee> attention
Oct 13 20:22:06 <samgee> what's the stable image, then?
Oct 13 20:22:12 <dolf1074> That's only in rotated mode, in straight mode (without scaling!!!) you get the good coordinates
Oct 13 20:22:32 <dolf1074> samgee: read http://onlinedev.blogspot.com/2008/10/road-ahead-from-om-20088-to-working.html
Oct 13 20:22:39 <LionKMP> oh, I see. hm, that should be fixed sometime I guess. Many programs will need landscape mode.
Oct 13 20:22:42 <Dave> yeah yeah
Oct 13 20:22:49 <Dave> LionKing, you wish
Oct 13 20:22:57 <Dave> don't count on the developers for that.
Oct 13 20:22:57 <LionKMP> :-)
Oct 13 20:23:08 <LionKMP> oh, don't they care?
Oct 13 20:23:14 <Dave> No, not particularly
Oct 13 20:23:22 <dolf1074> LionKMP: I wanted to look into the driver myself, but didn't find the driver
Oct 13 20:23:30 <samgee> thanks, dolf1074, reading now
Oct 13 20:23:36 <Dave> they're stance overall seems to be, oh, so my application looks and/or functions fucked up when in landscape mode, whatever.
Oct 13 20:24:24 <Dave> a couple authors who have actually taken the time to accommodate this have brilliantly taken advantage of the landscape mode for additional/alternate functionality (within their specific application)
Oct 13 20:24:31 <Dave> Otherwise, it's just same old blah.
Oct 13 20:25:20 <dolf1074> Dave: try to say as many problems you have found with the freerunner as you can
Oct 13 20:25:53 <Dave> I could write a 400 page paper
Oct 13 20:25:56 <dolf1074> Dave: And you want that the openmoko developers fix that all at the same time?
Oct 13 20:26:02 <Dave> No, hardly
Oct 13 20:26:25 <techiem2-r> just the first 350 pages
Oct 13 20:26:27 <techiem2-r> :P
Oct 13 20:26:32 <Dave> but clearly they are being led by someone who is not necessarily incompetent, but lacks clear sight and has never used a phone in their life
Oct 13 20:27:02 <Dave> furthermore, it is only been further emphasized time and time again that most developers should NOT control what gets developed and what features are added in terms of UI
Oct 13 20:27:06 <dolf1074> Dave: but is landscape mode one of the things that are needed in a phone?
Oct 13 20:27:08 <Dave> since most suck at it
Oct 13 20:27:22 <dolf1074> So you can't complain they don't work on that
Oct 13 20:27:22 <Dave> they design create systems and apis but piece of shit / unusable software applications for it
Oct 13 20:27:49 <LionKMP> who creates good GUI then?
Oct 13 20:27:51 <Dave> Additionally, many poor choices were made in terms of hardware and design (somewhat attributed by the afformentioned)
Oct 13 20:28:19 <Dave> dolf, honestly, a lot has been swept under the rug.
Oct 13 20:28:21 <LionKMP> ah, user testing creates the good GUI maybe.
Oct 13 20:28:34 <dolf1074> Dave: Sometimes I'm wondering why you still at this channel? Every time I hear you, you say it sucks, openmoko sucks. You say to everyone to throw their freerunner away.
Oct 13 20:28:39 <dolf1074> Dave: that's right
Oct 13 20:28:39 <Dave> but it's hard to target and complain about issues in which wrongdoing actually occurred, because the development of openmoko has been so fucking whimsical
Oct 13 20:28:56 <Dave> so it's hard to pinpoint misdoing and actual "bad work"
Oct 13 20:28:58 <Dave> but there is some
Oct 13 20:29:07 <Dave> I know of three such major examples, but there is shit I can do about it.
Oct 13 20:29:12 <Dave> Just never to purchase one for myself :)
Oct 13 20:29:47 <cjb_ie> open source projects need a benevolent dictator with project management experience, if they are to succeed outside the geek community
Oct 13 20:29:52 <Dave> Dolf, and for the record, I never said people should throw theirs away; clearly you must not be here when I am helping developers with their applications or assisting other users in a positive outlook.
Oct 13 20:30:01 <Dave> cjb, indeed.
Oct 13 20:30:09 <Dave> but not the flowery hippie type :)
Oct 13 20:30:25 <Dave> too much benevolence is a bad thing.
Oct 13 20:30:26 <cjb_ie> actually, i'd modify that to: project management and UI design experience
Oct 13 20:30:48 <dolf1074> Dave: It was just, everytime I say you on the channel, you said something bad about openmoko and it's development. Maybe you are a great helper when I don't watch
Oct 13 20:31:28 <dolf1074> But I don't need someone on the channel that keep saying that the openmoko development sucks. I know, They know. Hopefully they try better
Oct 13 20:31:32 <cjb_ie> the other problem is that when people volunteer for open source, they do what they want to do.
Oct 13 20:31:52 <Dave> Dolf, honestly, my greatest disdain for openmoko was when significantly beneficial hardware designs were proposed and declined due to the shortsightedness of the official people in charge who apparently don't get out of their cave enough.
Oct 13 20:32:32 <cjb_ie> which is not necessarily what needs to be done. this is different to volunteering for e.g. charity work, where you volunteer, and you do whatever shitty job you're told needs doing.
Oct 13 20:32:42 <Dave> Yeah openmoko development doesn't suck, though honestly, it would likely be beneficial if some standards were setup, or we formed a committee from which it could be decided what single distro will continue from here on out
Oct 13 20:32:54 <Dave> cjb, true enough  :)
Oct 13 20:33:02 * SpeedEvil ... list of stuff not being done ... ... ...
Oct 13 20:33:11 <Dave> Yep
Oct 13 20:33:49 <cjb_ie> i'm not sure why there is this perceptual difference between these different classes of volunteer projects, which on the surface of it one might hope would work similarly.
Oct 13 20:34:43 * Dave shrugs
Oct 13 20:34:52 <SpeedEvil> It's managment.
Oct 13 20:34:58 <dolf1074> Dave: Yeah, that's a problem in the company openmoko. But there are probably the same problems in other companies. And they can still make the device working. Maybe not as Iphone-killer (what openmoko not wanted to be). So it's just not helpfull for keeping complaining about it.
Oct 13 20:35:01 <SpeedEvil> You have to have a strong leader to herd cats.
Oct 13 20:35:06 <SpeedEvil> And the right sort of leaders.
Oct 13 20:35:28 <Dave> dolf, I guess also I am a bit biased and spiteful in this sense, since I proposed a couple BACKED plans/designs to the OM team, which were both subsequently more or less ignored (swept under the rug).
Oct 13 20:35:40 <SpeedEvil> And sometimes lack of complaint is taken as it all being fine.
Oct 13 20:35:42 <cjb_ie> (though in charities, the leaders are typically paid...)
Oct 13 20:35:50 <Dave> Dolf, fine, I'll leave the complaints elsewhere ;)
Oct 13 20:36:15 <dolf1074> thanks
Oct 13 20:36:26 <Dave> Yeah, the individual application developers seem to thrive off my thorough and well-documented complaints so far :)
Oct 13 20:36:42 <Dave> As opposed to those with little substance or merit :)
Oct 13 20:37:01 <Dave> Dolf, perhaps I should take a few days to cite more praise for the awesome stuff which has been developed and accomplished.
Oct 13 20:37:18 <Dave> Happy Openmoko Day, everybody!
Oct 13 20:37:29 <dolf1074> Dave: But you may keep complaining about new things and fault that openmoko are busy making. That's good. But just not repeat it for 1 month.
Oct 13 20:38:34 <dolf1074> Dave: Or maybe summarize then and post to a blogpost, so Openmoko get's all the complaints at once and can do something about it
Oct 13 20:38:36 <Dave> Dolf, good point :)
Oct 13 20:38:39 <Dave> Yeah
Oct 13 20:39:02 <Dave> I should start a newsletter or blog, and just register Sean with it >:)
Oct 13 20:39:41 <Dave> I should also contribute more to the wiki, if that's still popular. I've developed a few slick revelations as of late.
Oct 13 20:40:05 <Dave> In other news, how many nacelles will the GTA10 have?
Oct 13 20:40:45 <dolf1074> That's not complaining, now you're just laughing with openmoko
Oct 13 20:40:59 <dolf1074> and that's why I'm wondering why you still on this channel
Oct 13 20:44:03 <SpeedEvil> Anyway. http://www.mauve.plus.com/1223712256105.jpg
Oct 13 20:47:16 <LionKMP> when did Openmoko announce this Paroli thing, I didn't hear about it before.
Oct 13 20:48:19 <dolf1074> It did on two occasions and only there you will find it. Please wait, will search
Oct 13 20:49:16 <LionKMP> just an approximate date, because I made a post about distributions and I didn't mention this.
Oct 13 20:49:32 <dolf1074> 15 sept for the first
Oct 13 20:50:03 <LionKMP> ok, very new stuff then (found in your blog :) )
Oct 13 20:50:25 <dolf1074> yes, and I found it onto the community update
Oct 13 20:50:30 <dolf1074> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/17th_September,_2008_-_Activity_since_launch
Oct 13 20:50:36 <dolf1074> :)
Oct 13 20:50:45 <ozzloy> i'm trying to ssh to the qtopia image, but i keep getting connection refused.  is there something special to do for the qtopia image?
Oct 13 20:51:03 <LionKMP> hehe, not really explained there, not even linked.
Oct 13 20:51:38 <dolf1074> No
Oct 13 20:52:33 <donomo> when my device sleeps (qtopia 4.4), it doest unsleep 99% of the time. i get the 'white screen of death'. any ideas to fix?
Oct 13 20:53:18 <dolf1074> LionKMP: Ow no, I found it into a weekly engineerings news, namely http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td837114|a837114
Oct 13 20:53:24 <dolf1074> there it is explained well
Oct 13 20:53:35 <donomo> id finally have a usable freerunner if sleep/unsleep would work.
Oct 13 20:53:49 <bipak_> donomo: its a very common problem
Oct 13 20:53:54 <bipak_> but as I know there is no fix atm
Oct 13 20:53:54 <dolf1074> LionKMP: you will have to go to the section of tichy
Oct 13 20:54:13 <LionKMP> dolf1074: fine, I wanna know what's that as well :-) thanks!
Oct 13 20:54:40 <donomo> bipak_: ok. its a sharme to have the qtopia image which works pretty darn well for telephony, get hung up on sleep
Oct 13 20:55:03 <donomo> that sep 17th update says 'Raster left the project.' thats too bad
Oct 13 20:55:23 <dolf1074> tichy is an python main menu with some programs build into
Oct 13 20:55:36 <bipak_> donomo: yes. it doesn't affect all devices, though. fortunately my phone issnt affected
Oct 13 20:56:13 <bipak_> raster is still active :)
Oct 13 20:58:38 <dolf1074> bipak_: Is there some blog/news things we can follow his new adventures? Because he do many things, but I can't find them properly
Oct 13 20:58:43 <donomo> bipak_: doesnt affect all defives? thats curious. maybe i ordered my phone too early. :(
Oct 13 20:58:53 <donomo> s/defives/devices/
Oct 13 20:58:53 <apt> donomo meant: bipak_: doesnt affect all devices? thats curious. maybe i ordered my phone too early. :(
Oct 13 20:59:34 <bipak_> dolf1074: i don't know. I just see his posting on the mailing list or in this chan
Oct 13 20:59:48 <bipak_> s/posting/postings
Oct 13 21:00:09 <dolf1074> thanks
Oct 13 21:00:46 <bipak_> donomo: i think there is something on the bug trac wait
Oct 13 21:00:57 * Kero never understands bitbake and phases; and keeps forgetting after a few months
Oct 13 21:01:59 <Kero> there must be a single command to rebuild a package, say `bitbake -f pkg` because the man page says it defaults to build and -f will ignore stamps
Oct 13 21:02:00 <bipak_> donomo: maybe reading this might help: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1841
Oct 13 21:02:08 <bipak_> donomo: or at least tells you whats going on
Oct 13 21:16:43 <donomo> bipak_: thanks! that is some good reading.
Oct 13 21:17:03 <bipak_> :)
Oct 13 21:27:20 <donomo> WSOD should be #1 ticket. 
Oct 13 21:27:56 <donomo> #1989 address book not handling vcard 2.1. priority: 'highest'. omg stop the production line.
Oct 13 21:32:55 <bipak_> donomo: heh
Oct 13 21:33:27 <mwester> :)  People are rather funny that way.
Oct 13 21:33:52 <mwester> BTW, I agree that the WSoD problem should be the #1 issue; it does not seem that it is so.
Oct 13 21:34:25 <mwester> My phone is one of the ones that does not fail, so I've not been able to do anything to help :(
Oct 13 21:34:36 <Kero> Inasmuch WSoD happens after suspend/resume, I have a more pressing issue :)
Oct 13 21:35:13 <raster> mwester:  dunno. i've never had the wsod.. so... definitely not #1 for me :)
Oct 13 21:35:15 <nyu> is the problem of remote echo sound identified?
Oct 13 21:35:37 <nyu> my pals tell me they hear their own voice
Oct 13 21:36:10 <mwester> IIRC the remote echo is mechanical feedback from the speaker to the microphone -- nothing to be done about it to fix it, just some settings that can be used to minimize it.
Oct 13 21:36:38 <bipak_> nyu: i made a patch: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-October/033312.html
Oct 13 21:36:54 <raster> mwester:  and both my fr's seem fine :)
Oct 13 21:37:02 <bipak_> nyu: it solves it for me completly
Oct 13 21:37:13 <mwester> Yeah yeah - you worked for Om, you got the GOOD ones!
Oct 13 21:37:34 <nyu> bipak_: euh, it's that simple?
Oct 13 21:37:42 <bipak_> yes :)
Oct 13 21:38:01 <nyu> btw, I suppose it's not hard to compensate echo in software, is it?
Oct 13 21:38:12 <mwester> It is very hard.
Oct 13 21:38:13 <raster> nyu:  actually very hard
Oct 13 21:38:15 <nyu> (if you have a clue about sound, which I don't)
Oct 13 21:38:24 <raster> because the audio is done by the gsm chip
Oct 13 21:38:25 <mwester> It is easy to suppress it, though.
Oct 13 21:38:27 <raster> not the main cpu
Oct 13 21:38:34 <raster> for starters
Oct 13 21:38:48 <nyu> ah, the one with a blob
Oct 13 21:38:49 <raster> and the gsm chip has its own os/firmware that is not open
Oct 13 21:38:58 <raster> (and never will be)
Oct 13 21:39:07 <nyu> then yes, I guess it's very hard ;-)
Oct 13 21:39:08 <raster> and it really is just a bad mechanical design
Oct 13 21:39:20 <nyu> but never say never :-P
Oct 13 21:39:29 <raster> in this case u cant blame the gsm chip and itss blobby closedness
Oct 13 21:39:31 <mwester> Use headphones, or bluetooth, and the echo problem will be no more.
Oct 13 21:39:54 <nyu> is there a mic line in?
Oct 13 21:40:01 <raster> immature design team who dont hav experience with all the issues involved in making a phone - they just need to learn
Oct 13 21:40:10 <mwester> :)  No
Oct 13 21:40:13 <raster> and in the meantime - you're stuck with it
Oct 13 21:40:25 <nyu> I was stuck with a propietary phone before
Oct 13 21:40:28 <DieMumiee> yeah just upgrade your hardware via git
Oct 13 21:40:35 <nyu> so I guess it's a good trade
Oct 13 21:40:39 <mwester> But the little ear speaker is very easily accessed.
Oct 13 21:40:46 <bipak_> DieMumiee: lol
Oct 13 21:41:20 <mwester> So one can imagine that with a drill, and some imagination, one might be able to rig up an isolated ear speaker for the FR that would cause less echo...
Oct 13 21:41:22 <nyu> I'm surprised there's no free implementation of software echo compensation somewhere
Oct 13 21:41:30 <Kero> argh! recompile e-wm, only to find that ipkg runs out of space when installing!
Oct 13 21:41:37 <nyu> ah, I remember.  the gsm writes directly to the audio chips
Oct 13 21:41:48 <nyu> main memory/cpu not involved, right?
Oct 13 21:41:53 <raster> correct
Oct 13 21:42:00 <raster> u can even shut down ther main cpu while on a call
Oct 13 21:42:01 <nyu> is that the usual design?
Oct 13 21:42:03 <raster> in theory
Oct 13 21:42:03 <pb_> nyu: there is: asterisk can do it, for one.  but in this case, as you say, it wouldn't help.
Oct 13 21:42:14 <raster> u wont be able to"control" the gsm chip
Oct 13 21:42:22 <raster> but it will continue marching on doing the call on its own
Oct 13 21:42:56 <mwester> If we didn't have to suspend/resume (i.e. zero-clock), then it would be very practical to shut down the host CPU during a call.
Oct 13 21:43:17 <LaF0rge> nyu: even if you find one, it will use floating point
Oct 13 21:43:21 <Kero> and then ipkg leaves its lock... *sigh* I would have thought those kind of issues were solved a couple of yeaars ago?
Oct 13 21:43:26 <LaF0rge> nyu: also, there are tons of patents in this space
Oct 13 21:43:47 <nyu> LaF0rge: bah, I live in the "free" world
Oct 13 21:43:52 <nyu> (sort of)
Oct 13 21:44:08 <raster> and if the gsm stack was open....
Oct 13 21:44:16 <raster> u'd never be legally approved for use on a phone network
Oct 13 21:44:25 <nyu> I guess -msoft-float on arm is painful?
Oct 13 21:44:28 <LaF0rge> you can charge quite a bit of money if you have an optimized echoc cancellation implementation that runs on slow nofpu ARM cpu's
Oct 13 21:44:37 <raster> so as such u'd be unable to ship such a device as it'd be halted in shipping when found
Oct 13 21:44:41 <nyu> but you need FP to play ogg, don't you?
Oct 13 21:44:41 <LaF0rge> tomtom has licensed one of the commercial offering that run on the s3c24xx
Oct 13 21:44:44 <raster> so any sales or imports would be black-market\
Oct 13 21:44:51 <LaF0rge> nyu: not with trmor
Oct 13 21:44:52 <LaF0rge> tremor
Oct 13 21:44:52 <SpeedEvil> In principle, you could do eco-cancellation on the main CPU
Oct 13 21:44:55 <raster> at the same time even if u had such a device
Oct 13 21:44:56 <SpeedEvil> echo
Oct 13 21:45:00 <SpeedEvil> as I understand it.
Oct 13 21:45:17 <raster> u are in legal iffy lands in useing one
Oct 13 21:45:20 <raster> as it is not approved
Oct 13 21:45:28 <LaF0rge> raster: i don't buy that argument (the legal one)
Oct 13 21:45:29 <raster> could be considered "hacking the phone network"
Oct 13 21:45:44 <LaF0rge> raster: at least in europe it should be fairly possible.
Oct 13 21:45:51 <nyu> raster: eventually, someone will do it anyway
Oct 13 21:46:12 <raster> LaF0rge:  i know in .au using non-approved devices can open you to legal action if those devices cause any trouble on the network
Oct 13 21:46:18 <SpeedEvil> LaF0rge: in the UK, once you sell one device that's misused, and you're told that it's been misused, and told to stop, you are actually liable for jailtime.
Oct 13 21:46:32 <SpeedEvil> (if you don't)
Oct 13 21:46:35 <raster> so it depends on the country
Oct 13 21:46:37 <raster> and what happens
Oct 13 21:46:48 <SpeedEvil> That's neglecting the certification issue totally.
Oct 13 21:47:01 <SpeedEvil> It's 'phone hacking' legislation covering cloning essentially.
Oct 13 21:47:16 <nyu> SpeedEvil: I thought jail was meant for dangerous criminals... oh well
Oct 13 21:47:24 <LaF0rge> must be weird countries where you have phone specific legislation
Oct 13 21:47:31 <SpeedEvil> But echo cancellation can be done on the main SoC as I understand it.
Oct 13 21:47:46 <LaF0rge> speed: yes, at the cost of lots of cpu and additional latency
Oct 13 21:47:50 <SpeedEvil> LaF0rge: at the time there was a large number of people 'chipping' phones for free calls.
Oct 13 21:48:05 <SpeedEvil> Lots - not really.
Oct 13 21:48:17 <SpeedEvil> 8Khz 8 bit echo cancellation isn't really taxing.
Oct 13 21:48:24 <nyu> so if freeloaders get jail, I wonder what they do with murderers..
Oct 13 21:48:24 <SpeedEvil> At least taking out the majority of it.
Oct 13 21:48:50 <LaF0rge> I really don't like all this FUD that people spread about regulatory approval
Oct 13 21:49:01 <SpeedEvil> LaF0rge: Some of it ain't FUD.
Oct 13 21:49:18 <SpeedEvil> It's real actual people have gone to jail.
Oct 13 21:49:51 <SpeedEvil> Now, if a reseller would actually be jailed for what could be viewed as the same offence but isn't really, is another question.
Oct 13 21:50:58 <vininim_> mm the gsm does echo supression, right?
Oct 13 21:51:12 <SpeedEvil> vininim: in principle it should. 
Oct 13 21:51:36 <SpeedEvil> vininim: the problem is that it's hard to tune it/impossible to tune it with published commands.
Oct 13 21:51:44 <mwester> suppression - yes, cancellation - no.
Oct 13 21:52:36 <SpeedEvil> sorry - cancelling after it's gone through four GSM codecs, and lots of errors is ... difficult.
Oct 13 21:53:36 <SpeedEvil> http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/communications_offences/#p_06
Oct 13 21:53:52 <SpeedEvil> Section 1 of the Mobile Telephones (Re-Programming) Act 2002 (seeStones 8-30109W) makes it an offence if a person:- ...
Oct 13 21:54:05 <vininim> vut
Oct 13 21:54:20 <vininim> that's why frerunner is a cpu with a phone attached to it
Oct 13 21:54:21 <vininim> =P
Oct 13 21:56:13 <vininim> Subsection 3 provides a statutory defence to anyone who is the manufacturer of the phone or does the above with the written consent of the manufacturer.
Oct 13 21:56:39 <vininim> the green welcome card sounds like a written consent, imho. :)
Oct 13 21:56:45 <SpeedEvil> But section 2
Oct 13 21:57:44 <SpeedEvil> 'Possession or supply of anything for re-programming purposes' - once you're told it's being misused, you are 'knowingly supplying' the above, and are guilty of the offence.
Oct 13 21:57:56 <pb_> SpeedEvil: right, but section 2 would have no effect where the subsection 3 defence applies. 
Oct 13 21:58:10 <pb_> so, section 2 bans the supply of equipment to crack existing phones, not free gsm stacks themselves.
Oct 13 21:58:24 <SpeedEvil> subsection 3 of section 1 only applies to section 1, not 2
Oct 13 21:58:46 <pb_> sure, but section 2 only applies in the case of an offence under section 1.
Oct 13 21:58:57 <pb_> if the subsection 3 defence applies to section 1, there is no offence in the first place
Oct 13 21:59:04 <SpeedEvil> No - it doesn't work that way
Oct 13 21:59:05 <pb_> and hence, no liability under section 2
Oct 13 21:59:12 <SpeedEvil> section 2 is a seperate offence to section 1
Oct 13 21:59:28 <vininim> wait, it refers to section 1 offense
Oct 13 21:59:34 <vininim> explictly, but ianal
Oct 13 22:00:23 <SpeedEvil> It's legal to posess an open GSM stack, and change the numbers, as long as there is no unlawful intent, and it's legal to supply as long as you don't know it's being misused.
Oct 13 22:02:17 <pb_> yes, section 2 is a separate offense, but the thing it prohibits is "supply of anything which can be used for a section 1 offence".  but, if you are talking about an open phone for which the manufacturer always grants the right to reprogramme, there can be no section 1 offence since the subsection 3 defence would always apply to that hardware.
Oct 13 22:02:55 <pb_> it seems pretty clear that this legislation is intended to prevent the supply of equipment or software for cracking existing gsm phones, not (per se) to outlaw free gsm stacks.
Oct 13 22:03:00 <SpeedEvil> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/ukpga_20020031_en_1 I think we may be reading differnt versions
Oct 13 22:03:24 <SpeedEvil> oh
Oct 13 22:03:43 <pb_> of course, any manufacturer who supplied an overtly free phone might have trouble getting the networks to accept it, but that is a separate issue.
Oct 13 22:03:58 <pb_> at that point you just have a contractual problem, not an issue of criminal law.
Oct 13 22:04:40 <SpeedEvil> However, for that to happen, FIC would have to say 'yes you can use our phones to break the law' - I don't think that's happening.
Oct 13 22:05:03 <SpeedEvil> OpenMoko even.
Oct 13 22:06:01 <SpeedEvil> Not one of the worst drafted laws - but could be better.
Oct 13 22:06:24 <SpeedEvil> At least it doesn't say you can't reprogram phones in ways other than the unique identifiers.
Oct 13 22:06:31 <cjb_ie> "by buying this phone you agree not to break the law with it"
Oct 13 22:14:04 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. I see that it would actually cover changing MACs of wifi sticks too.
Oct 13 22:14:12 <SpeedEvil> Though there is seperate legislation there.
Oct 13 23:01:52 <Dave> woo
Oct 13 23:02:11 <Dave> go go opie
Oct 13 23:06:31 <Dave> Mwester, around?
Oct 13 23:10:48 <ljp> sorry, you dont have permission to use the trademarked name 'Opie'
Oct 13 23:10:57 <Dave> :(
Oct 13 23:11:19 <Dave> Man, and here I was just trying to navigate their extensive graphical user interface...
Oct 13 23:11:23 <Dave> How disappointing.
Oct 13 23:17:24 <raster> muhahahahah!
Oct 13 23:17:26 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/the-gang-01.jpg
Oct 13 23:19:38 <Dave> YES
Oct 13 23:19:38 <sicu> invasion!
Oct 13 23:19:40 <sicu> =p
Oct 13 23:19:43 <Dave> COMPLIANCE!
Oct 13 23:20:31 <Dave> strike force delta
Oct 13 23:20:46 <Dave> Raster, I wish I could install it on this zire :[
Oct 13 23:21:05 * SpeedEvil wishes he could install it on this nokia 3310.
Oct 13 23:23:22 <Wonka> OPIE? as in libopie? One Password In Everything?
Oct 13 23:24:50 <raster> donomo:  comply your zire!
Oct 13 23:25:37 <raster> errr
Oct 13 23:25:45 <raster> dave: comply your zire!
Oct 13 23:29:42 * Dave gives it to raster
Oct 13 23:29:50 <Dave> Rasterize it!
Oct 13 23:30:18 <Dave> Wonka: Open Palmtop Integrated Environment
Oct 13 23:32:21 <raster> ie qt (qte)
Oct 13 23:32:28 <raster> if u like c++ and qt
Oct 13 23:32:34 <raster> its probably the thing for you
Oct 13 23:32:35 <raster> :)
Oct 13 23:33:04 <raster> Dave: whihc zire?
Oct 13 23:33:19 <raster> z31,71 and 72 are supported.
Oct 13 23:33:20 <raster> :)
Oct 13 23:36:01 * cjb_ie must try to stop interpreting everything in osm context: "z31? what kind of crazy-ass zoomlevel is that"
Oct 13 23:36:20 <SpeedEvil>  np: Blondie - Atomic.
Oct 13 23:37:19 <Dave> Raster, I have all of them!
Oct 13 23:37:29 <Dave> and many of the latter two!
Oct 13 23:37:44 <ljp> geek
Oct 13 23:37:50 <raster> well
Oct 13 23:37:55 <Dave> Lorn, do I detect a hint of jealousy? ;p
Oct 13 23:37:57 <raster> oe does hgave builds for them
Oct 13 23:38:07 <raster> if u just set MACHINE in local.conf right
Oct 13 23:38:13 <raster> and use my oe tree/setup
Oct 13 23:38:16 <raster> it should work just fine
Oct 13 23:38:21 <ljp> Dave: no, it would take a wide angle lens to photo all the crap on my desk
Oct 13 23:38:39 <raster> i build both palmt650 and om-gta02 images from the same tree with just a swizzle of local.conf MACHINE
Oct 13 23:38:42 <Dave> same here :D
Oct 13 23:38:50 <DocScrutinizer> sicu: already tested the PATCH of tinfoil? :-)
Oct 13 23:38:51 <Dave> Raster, sweet
Oct 13 23:38:56 <Dave> How long did the builds take?
Oct 13 23:39:02 <Dave> Joerg :D
Oct 13 23:39:07 <DocScrutinizer> moo
Oct 13 23:39:15 <raster> Dave:  on my box. a few hours
Oct 13 23:40:31 <Dave> nice
Oct 13 23:40:41 <Dave> I shall do it!
Oct 13 23:40:46 * Dave wishes to comply
Oct 13 23:43:23 <raster> let me ok
Oct 13 23:43:33 <raster> just added new patch that updates illume to new buttons setup
Oct 13 23:43:45 <Dave> the new-old button setup? :P
Oct 13 23:43:52 <raster> yes
Oct 13 23:43:54 <Dave> yay
Oct 13 23:44:00 <Dave> Welcome back, old friend :)
Oct 13 23:44:04 <raster> Adding         patches/0016-update-to-illume-with-buttons.patch
Oct 13 23:44:16 <Dave> heh, aptly named.
Oct 13 23:46:18 <DocScrutinizer> raster: btw: thanks for pointer to Xchat-maemo :-)
Oct 13 23:47:15 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  irc-ing on n810 now?
Oct 13 23:47:26 <jOERG_42> works great
Oct 13 23:47:33 <raster> pants!
Oct 13 23:47:57 <jOERG_42> *now* yes
Oct 13 23:48:23 <DocScrutinizer> but my coffe is here ;-)
Oct 13 23:49:03 <raster> i really wish the wifi was supported on the n800...
Oct 13 23:49:18 <DocScrutinizer> :-(
Oct 13 23:49:28 <DocScrutinizer> get you a 810!
Oct 13 23:50:06 <raster> same wifi
Oct 13 23:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> don't forget the mini2microSD adapter when U r at the shop
Oct 13 23:50:27 <raster> 810 only adds gps, physical kbd and wried-in 2g flash
Oct 13 23:50:52 <raster> the n810 is useless for me as an upgrade from n800
Oct 13 23:50:52 <raster> :)
Oct 13 23:51:03 <DocScrutinizer> what'S a 2g flash?
Oct 13 23:51:23 <DocScrutinizer> and where's the problem with 800-wifi then?
Oct 13 23:52:33 <raster> 2GB of flash
Oct 13 23:52:35 <raster> for maps
Oct 13 23:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> ahh
Oct 13 23:52:42 <raster> the n800 wifi is closed
Oct 13 23:52:48 <raster> no open specs or driver
Oct 13 23:52:50 <DocScrutinizer> as is 810
Oct 13 23:53:02 <DocScrutinizer> I see
Oct 13 23:53:32 <DocScrutinizer> not worth that much for creating own driver etc
Oct 13 23:54:24 <DocScrutinizer> I assume no promiscuous mode as well
Oct 13 23:54:42 <DocScrutinizer> on proprietary wifi driver?
Oct 13 23:57:00 <DocScrutinizer> sicu: ping
Oct 13 23:58:27 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  no idea
Oct 13 23:58:33 <raster> all i know is the driver is a closed binary module
Oct 13 23:58:47 <raster> so if i want to build my own OE images for the n800
Oct 13 23:58:50 <raster> i lose wifi
Oct 13 23:58:51 <raster> :(
Oct 13 23:59:40 <DocScrutinizer> I don't exactly get it. Why? You switched to some diferent OS?
Oct 14 00:00:31 <DocScrutinizer> raster: you said "wish the wifi was supported on the n800...". Actually I think it's supported in maemo at least
Oct 14 00:00:59 <Dave> poor raster
Oct 14 00:01:09 <Dave> So Doc, is the 810 worth playing with? :)
Oct 14 00:01:38 <DocScrutinizer> It's fun, and a great inspiration on doing zero-clock right :-)
Oct 14 00:01:56 <Dave> Oh, raster, I have something to mention to you.
Oct 14 00:02:10 <DocScrutinizer> just missing a GSM module - thank god for OM ;-)
Oct 14 00:02:25 <raster> DocScrutinizer: i want to build OE images for my n800
Oct 14 00:02:25 <DocScrutinizer> ahh I see
Oct 14 00:02:26 <raster> DocScrutinizer: to add to my crew:
Oct 14 00:02:27 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=News
Oct 14 00:02:30 <raster> errr
Oct 14 00:02:31 <Dave> If you put a Stopwatch app on your image or clock app, please, INCLUDE THE FUCKING MILLISECONDS!
Oct 14 00:02:44 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/the-gang-01.jpg
Oct 14 00:02:59 <DocScrutinizer> so OE doen't support N800-wifi, that's the issue
Oct 14 00:03:06 <Dave> I can't stand the fact that three of these images have "Stopwatch apps" that only displays seconds as the smallest unit - I'm like, what the fuck's the point?
Oct 14 00:03:10 <Dave> :(
Oct 14 00:03:15 <raster> Dave:  i'm not adding a stopwatch app
Oct 14 00:03:16 <raster> :)
Oct 14 00:03:18 <Dave> heh
Oct 14 00:03:20 <raster> not in my brief
Oct 14 00:03:26 <Dave> I might sneak one in
Oct 14 00:03:36 <Dave> it should be simple to code
Oct 14 00:03:38 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  the maemo distro does as it is not all open source
Oct 14 00:03:42 <cjb_ie> maybe the OS isn't realtime enough to go smaller...
Oct 14 00:03:43 <raster> they ship closed modules and binaries
Oct 14 00:03:44 <Dave> unless it requires a flux capacitor here or there
Oct 14 00:03:52 <raster> oe only builds from source
Oct 14 00:03:54 <Dave> cjb, hahahaha
Oct 14 00:03:58 <raster> (well ok u can hack it not to...)
Oct 14 00:03:58 <DocScrutinizer> raster: yup, got it now
Oct 14 00:04:00 <Dave> burn!
Oct 14 00:04:24 <raster> i want to just be building the exact same image i build for everythgin else
Oct 14 00:04:25 <raster> seamlessly
Oct 14 00:04:32 <raster> and run it on the n800
Oct 14 00:04:34 <raster> i can do that
Oct 14 00:04:41 <Dave> good
Oct 14 00:04:42 <raster> but i'll get reduced functionality
Oct 14 00:04:44 <raster> :(
Oct 14 00:04:48 <Dave> not good
Oct 14 00:04:53 <Dave> That's rather discouraging.
Oct 14 00:05:03 <Dave> Yet, nevertheless, you will be dominating, nonetheless :)
Oct 14 00:05:19 <raster> i also dont know if the oe kernel supports usbnet on the n800's usb interface
Oct 14 00:05:24 <Dave> So, raster, should I build illume for my zire army?
Oct 14 00:05:30 <raster> so i'll also lose my remote console for futzing about
Oct 14 00:05:42 <raster> Dave: why not?
Oct 14 00:05:51 <raster> Dave:  its a painless thnig on my treo650
Oct 14 00:05:56 <raster> cocoboot is awesome
Oct 14 00:05:56 <Dave> :D
Oct 14 00:06:00 <Dave> Isn't it?
Oct 14 00:06:03 <Dave> I was really impressed.
Oct 14 00:06:05 <raster> palmos+cocoboot make for an asweome bootloader
Oct 14 00:06:06 <DocScrutinizer> raster: there's schem for N8x0?
Oct 14 00:06:09 <Dave> I thought the readme was lying to me.
Oct 14 00:06:20 <Dave> it's literally pop and click
Oct 14 00:06:24 <Dave> lock and load
Oct 14 00:06:30 <raster> it takes about as long to bootplamos and run cocoboot and u-boot on the fr
Oct 14 00:06:31 <raster> :)
Oct 14 00:06:40 <Dave> heh
Oct 14 00:06:40 <raster> yup
Oct 14 00:06:44 <raster> it literally is just that
Oct 14 00:06:49 <Dave> I know!
Oct 14 00:06:50 <raster> once u set up the sd card with the coroboot.prc
Oct 14 00:06:54 <Dave> exactly!
Oct 14 00:07:05 <raster> and populate it with the cfg files for cocoboot 
Oct 14 00:07:08 <raster> and a kernel image
Oct 14 00:07:14 <raster> parition for ext2 for linux
Oct 14 00:07:14 <raster> boom
Oct 14 00:07:27 <Dave> yeah I just copied and extracted the angstrom opie dist onto my card
Oct 14 00:07:29 <raster> and u dont damage/endanger your palm data/os
Oct 14 00:07:33 <raster> that stays safe
Oct 14 00:07:38 <Dave> safety is good
Oct 14 00:07:45 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  i've never seen one
Oct 14 00:07:50 <Dave> I was always fearful of uboot corrupting my data on the freerunner
Oct 14 00:08:01 <Dave> or something odd
Oct 14 00:08:34 <DocScrutinizer> Dave: what is it u-boot could do to your data?
Oct 14 00:09:01 <Dave> In the past, with multiple distros on one card, I heard that it corrupted stuff.
Oct 14 00:09:17 <Dave> that, and there were apparently a couple bad uboot versions or something
Oct 14 00:09:27 <Dave> Maybe that, or people were "modifying" they're uboot :p
Oct 14 00:09:30 <Dave> heh
Oct 14 00:14:25 <Dave> cute, it's fscking my partition :)
Oct 14 00:17:56 <Dave> silly networking issues
Oct 14 00:19:16 <BobOfDoom> raster, Dave: glad you like Cocoboot. :) by the way you can make it even quicker by setting noprompt=1 in your conf.  That'll make it boot as soon as you hit the icon.  (But yeah, I need to fix that USB net problem on treo, having issues with my Palm OS toolchain atm )
Oct 14 00:19:41 <Dave> Ah, I see :)
Oct 14 00:19:59 <Dave> Thanks for the heads up.
Oct 14 00:22:46 <raster> BobOfDoom:  yeah - i know.. but .. i wanted the usb console thats why imentioend getting usb console auto-enabled by cocoboot.. so i can do that
Oct 14 00:22:46 <raster> :)
Oct 14 00:23:03 <raster> and yes
Oct 14 00:23:08 <raster> cocoboot is awesome
Oct 14 00:23:16 <raster> if it had better docs...
Oct 14 00:23:19 <raster> but hey
Oct 14 00:23:26 <raster> its still better than uboot
Oct 14 00:23:27 <raster> :)
Oct 14 00:25:17 <Dave> haha, totally
Oct 14 00:26:12 <Dave> now, if only I could get usb working...
Oct 14 00:28:19 <BobOfDoom> Dave: do you get errors like this on host PC?
Oct 14 00:28:21 <BobOfDoom> [94524.700149] usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -62
Oct 14 00:28:22 <BobOfDoom> [94524.841875] usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -62
Oct 14 00:28:26 <BobOfDoom> or just nothing?
Oct 14 00:28:32 <Dave> haha, yeah I did
Oct 14 00:28:35 <Dave> earlier today
Oct 14 00:28:52 <Dave> but then I was able to get past that (I think)
Oct 14 00:29:25 <Dave> I was getting plenty of those errors though
Oct 14 00:29:34 <BobOfDoom> hmm
Oct 14 00:29:40 <Dave> after futzing with the usb I was able to get it to register the device though
Oct 14 00:29:51 <Dave> but I could never connect to it
Oct 14 00:30:00 <Dave> or have the device connect to the pc correctly
Oct 14 00:30:13 <BobOfDoom> that's odd
Oct 14 00:30:20 <Dave> it didn't appear to be taking the IP I assigned to it, or it was lying to me.
Oct 14 00:30:22 <BobOfDoom> so you mean you're gettting usb0 in ifconfig on both host and PC
Oct 14 00:30:42 <BobOfDoom> but it's refusing the IP you give it?
Oct 14 00:30:44 <Dave> no, usb0 on the device wouldn't function properly as far as I could tell
Oct 14 00:30:47 <raster> Dave: what image?
Oct 14 00:30:50 <Dave> so maybe it was fucked up
Oct 14 00:31:04 <raster> i know that the palmt650 config wouldnt bring up usb0 on the device side by default
Oct 14 00:31:14 <raster> i fixed that in my ow tree and patches
Oct 14 00:31:18 <raster> err
Oct 14 00:31:18 <raster> oe
Oct 14 00:31:33 <raster> also i knwo i have to unplug and replug usb after linux boots to get it to work
Oct 14 00:31:41 <raster> but then usb ethernet is fine
Oct 14 00:32:18 <Dave> oh, so all you had to do was manually bring it up, then reconnect the plug?
Oct 14 00:33:25 <raster> yes
Oct 14 00:33:31 <raster> so ifup usb0 on the device
Oct 14 00:33:37 <raster> unplug
Oct 14 00:33:38 <raster> replug
Oct 14 00:33:40 <raster> ssh in
Oct 14 00:33:48 <raster> (same as freerunenr or any OE built device)
Oct 14 00:35:09 <Dave> yeah
Oct 14 00:35:11 <Dave> I see :)
Oct 14 00:35:23 <Dave> silliness, I should have known!
Oct 14 00:45:15 <Dave> damn, now I'm having problems ssh'ing in :|
Oct 14 00:46:09 <xiangfu> what is the problems?
Oct 14 00:46:47 <xiangfu> most problem about ssh , i think it's network problem:-)
Oct 14 00:47:08 <Dave> no kidding
Oct 14 00:47:17 <Dave> though this is on the palm, not the freerunner
Oct 14 00:47:25 <Dave> though it's quite similar distribution :)
Oct 14 00:47:33 <BobOfDoom> Dave: so it's responding to pings now, but no SSH?
Oct 14 00:48:55 <Dave> right
Oct 14 00:49:13 <Dave> both pc and device can ping each other, the routes are even correct
Oct 14 00:49:27 <BobOfDoom> telenet device 22
Oct 14 00:49:29 <BobOfDoom> err
Oct 14 00:49:30 <BobOfDoom> telnet*
Oct 14 00:49:45 <BobOfDoom> see if you get the SSH handshake prompt
Oct 14 00:49:48 <Dave> yeah it seems to connect (it's running dropbear)
Oct 14 00:49:54 <Dave> yeah it connects but hangs with nothing happening
Oct 14 00:49:55 <ljp> what does the route look like?
Oct 14 00:50:05 <xiangfu> you mean you ssh the palm not freerunner?
Oct 14 00:50:17 <Dave> xiangfu, that's what I'm trying to do, yes :)
Oct 14 00:50:50 <BobOfDoom> maybe the dropbear setup is just broken
Oct 14 00:50:56 <BobOfDoom> can you ssh to localhost on the device?
Oct 14 00:51:44 <Dave> yes
Oct 14 00:51:48 <Dave> :|
Oct 14 00:52:01 <BobOfDoom> hmm
Oct 14 00:52:11 <Dave> yeah, let me check the routing again -- though it seemed fine :P
Oct 14 00:58:55 <Dave> YES
Oct 14 00:59:17 <Dave> Okay, I needed to change the default route in the conf, since every time the interface was brought up again it kept changing it back to an invalid net
Oct 14 01:03:58 <DaveZire> :D
Oct 14 01:04:09 <DaveZire> woot :P
Oct 14 01:10:10 <BobOfDoom> DaveZire: hehe congrats :)
Oct 14 01:10:56 <Dave> thanks
Oct 14 01:11:09 <Dave> Apparently running Konqueror on it eats most of the cpu
Oct 14 01:19:20 <DaveZire> ping
Oct 14 01:19:33 <techiem2-r> pong
Oct 14 01:19:46 <raster> DaveZire: so.. finally.. zire up
Oct 14 01:20:15 <Dave> pong
Oct 14 01:20:20 <Dave> raster, yep :)
Oct 14 01:20:49 <raster> if u take my palmt650 changes
Oct 14 01:20:52 <raster> and apply to zire
Oct 14 01:21:00 <raster> for usbnet up on boot u'll b e better off
Oct 14 01:21:05 <raster> feel free to send me patches
Oct 14 01:21:11 <raster> if u verify they work
Oct 14 01:22:04 <Dave> yeah, I'm sure I will
Oct 14 01:22:10 <Dave> Alright, I'll try to get to it Raster :)
Oct 14 01:22:33 <Dave> More to add to your ever-expanding army :)
Oct 14 01:23:41 <raster> hehehe
Oct 14 01:24:01 <raster> well as such i am just maintaining patches inb my oe svn setup tree that i can test myself
Oct 14 01:24:03 <raster> and be sure work
Oct 14 01:24:09 <raster> or come from known soruces that know it to work
Oct 14 01:25:30 <Dave> I hope I can become a trusted source ;)
Oct 14 01:25:38 <Dave> after I build and test it
Oct 14 01:26:35 <raster> well do a full rebuild and test
Oct 14 01:26:44 <raster> then let me look at it
Oct 14 01:26:45 <raster> :)
Oct 14 01:29:39 <Dave> Sure thing.
Oct 14 01:31:31 <DaveZire> the keyboard on this isn't too bad
Oct 14 01:32:02 <DaveZire> though it's nothing like illume :)
Oct 14 01:32:16 <raster> which kbd?
Oct 14 01:32:27 <jOERG_42> dave: kbd on N810 is nice too
Oct 14 01:33:04 <Dave> So you said :D
Oct 14 01:33:12 <Dave> raster, the uhh, one I was just using on the zire
Oct 14 01:33:22 <raster> oh
Oct 14 01:33:27 <raster> in polmos?
Oct 14 01:33:33 <raster> which modle zire?
Oct 14 01:33:35 <Dave> It's closer to the matchbox keyboard but the responsiveness and boundaries are much improved
Oct 14 01:33:47 <raster> model
Oct 14 01:33:49 <BobOfDoom> DaveZire: OPIE?
Oct 14 01:33:51 <Dave> raster, nah in uhh, the angstrom distribution I've currently booted onto (running opie)
Oct 14 01:33:54 <Dave> yeah
Oct 14 01:33:57 <raster> ooh
Oct 14 01:33:58 <raster> opie
Oct 14 01:34:05 <Dave> yeah
Oct 14 01:34:11 <raster> bah!
Oct 14 01:34:17 <Dave> so far it's not bad, but I'd rather have my illume :)
Oct 14 01:34:22 <Dave> somehow, it's more comfortable :P
Oct 14 01:34:31 <raster> :)
Oct 14 01:34:35 <Dave> Don't worry raster, I'm not cheating on you :P
Oct 14 01:34:35 <raster> illume
Oct 14 01:34:38 <raster> or opie?
Oct 14 01:35:02 <Dave> Well raster, I have 24 of these
Oct 14 01:35:10 <Dave> there's more than enough to go around
Oct 14 01:36:28 <BobOfDoom> 24
Oct 14 01:36:31 <BobOfDoom> yikes
Oct 14 01:36:48 <BobOfDoom> Dave: dude.. you need to get away from ebay :p
Oct 14 01:36:53 <raster> 24?
Oct 14 01:37:01 <raster> 24 zires?
Oct 14 01:37:06 <Dave> haha yeah, a friend gladly forked over a box of them to me, because otherwise the company was going to throw them out
Oct 14 01:37:09 <Dave> raster, yes
Oct 14 01:37:16 <raster> god damn
Oct 14 01:37:19 <raster> where did u get them?
Oct 14 01:37:41 <Dave> I think I have about 17 71's 6 72's (various versions), and one cute little z31 :)
Oct 14 01:38:09 <Dave> raster, so far the ones I've used all worked...
Oct 14 01:38:24 <Dave> I just had little to no interest in using palmOS...
Oct 14 01:38:27 <Dave> :)
Oct 14 01:38:52 <raster> hmm
Oct 14 01:38:55 <Dave> I guess they had all upgraded to blackberries; I got the impression this was sitting under a desk for a long while, and they couldn't bring themselves to dumpster it.
Oct 14 01:38:58 <raster> z72 is a big leap over z71
Oct 14 01:38:59 <raster> in hw
Oct 14 01:39:00 <Dave> I gladly took it off their hands!
Oct 14 01:39:06 <Dave> yeah, it seemed like.
Oct 14 01:39:22 <Dave> oh well, six is still good enough, right?
Oct 14 01:39:33 <Dave> I need more SD cards
Oct 14 01:39:35 <raster> yeah
Oct 14 01:39:40 <raster> u can build your own gang
Oct 14 01:39:45 <Dave> right now I'm just using my freerunner microSD's in SD adapters :P
Oct 14 01:39:49 <Dave> haha, YES
Oct 14 01:39:55 <raster> my gang only numebrs 3 right now
Oct 14 01:40:02 <Dave> then I'll take a picture, once I've built illume, and send it to you :)
Oct 14 01:40:08 * raster needs to get mr zeeee into the gang again
Oct 14 01:40:14 <Dave> :D
Oct 14 01:40:20 <Dave> how's he doing?
Oct 14 01:40:27 <raster> the z71 is a bhit weak
Oct 14 01:40:29 <raster> only 16m ram
Oct 14 01:40:31 <raster> 144mhz omap
Oct 14 01:40:58 <raster> z72 is like treo
Oct 14 01:40:59 <raster> 32m
Oct 14 01:41:02 <raster> decent
Oct 14 01:41:19 <Dave> oh nice
Oct 14 01:41:20 <Dave> yeah
Oct 14 01:41:26 <raster> z31 is like z71
Oct 14 01:41:28 <raster> weak
Oct 14 01:41:31 <raster> with lower res screen
Oct 14 01:41:34 <Dave> But it's so adorable!
Oct 14 01:41:42 <Dave> and lightweight :p
Oct 14 01:41:45 <Dave> maybe because it's full of air
Oct 14 01:41:47 <raster> hehehe
Oct 14 01:41:49 <raster> well u can try
Oct 14 01:41:52 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 14 01:41:59 <raster> i'd not bother tho
Oct 14 01:42:05 <raster> i'd just bother with the z72's
Oct 14 01:42:06 <raster> u have 6
Oct 14 01:42:09 <raster> thats enough work there
Oct 14 01:42:17 <Dave> True :)
Oct 14 01:42:30 <techiem2-r> so raster, got anything l33t to run on a Zoomer?
Oct 14 01:42:31 <techiem2-r> :P
Oct 14 01:42:38 <raster> te zoomer?
Oct 14 01:42:42 <Dave> Man, I still have to say, the freerunner undeniably has a sweet screen.
Oct 14 01:42:45 <raster> (plam zXX?)
Oct 14 01:42:50 <techiem2-r> no
Oct 14 01:42:55 <techiem2-r> as in Tandy ZPDA
Oct 14 01:42:58 <techiem2-r> THE Zoomer
Oct 14 01:42:59 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 14 01:43:02 <raster> zpda?
Oct 14 01:43:11 <Dave> zaurus?
Oct 14 01:43:14 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 14 01:43:19 * techiem2-r looks for site on it
Oct 14 01:43:33 <raster> ooho... umm.. never seen one
Oct 14 01:43:37 <raster> but given 1mb ram
Oct 14 01:43:39 <raster> and 4mb rom...
Oct 14 01:43:44 <raster> likely no
Oct 14 01:44:00 <raster> :)
Oct 14 01:44:04 <techiem2-r> http://www.8bit-micro.com/tandy-zoomer-z-pda.htm
Oct 14 01:44:12 <raster> by mr zeee i meant my zaurus sl-c860
Oct 14 01:44:19 <raster> te yes. googled. found it
Oct 14 01:44:20 <raster> :)
Oct 14 01:44:27 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 14 01:44:42 <techiem2-r> I should dig that out and see if it still runs....
Oct 14 01:45:49 <Dave> zaurus zaurus
Oct 14 01:46:15 <techiem2-r> mmm zaurus were nice...
Oct 14 01:46:21 <techiem2-r> what I saw of them
Oct 14 01:46:34 <Dave> Yes.
Oct 14 01:49:39 <ColdFyre> are there any docs/wikis how to get gprs working on the freerunner?
Oct 14 01:53:37 <Dave> yes
Oct 14 01:54:17 <ColdFyre> you already know what i am going to ask next
Oct 14 01:54:44 <Dave> Where is it located? :P
Oct 14 01:54:56 <ColdFyre> yup :)
Oct 14 01:54:56 <techiem2-r> is it edible?
Oct 14 01:55:02 <ColdFyre> will it blend?
Oct 14 01:55:06 <Dave> haha
Oct 14 01:55:18 <Dave> Coldfyre, which distribution are you currently using?
Oct 14 01:55:23 <Dave> or do you plan to get it working under.
Oct 14 01:55:40 <ColdFyre> FDOM
Oct 14 01:56:05 <Dave> uhh
Oct 14 01:56:08 <ColdFyre> i am open to using different distros that have better support
Oct 14 01:57:08 <Dave> well take a look at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS_FSO  and someone recently did it on qtopia too, but have yet to write a wiki page about it I believe.
Oct 14 02:01:48 <ColdFyre> hm, so those are the only ones that currently have support?
Oct 14 02:02:17 <Dave> I'm pretty sure you could do it in any of them...
Oct 14 02:02:26 <Dave> it might take a little elbow grease though
Oct 14 02:02:34 <Dave> e.g. the manual configuration
Oct 14 02:03:11 <ColdFyre> manual config = shell scripts= no big deal
Oct 14 02:03:59 <Dave> pretty much!
Oct 14 02:04:04 <Dave> :)
Oct 14 02:04:19 <Dave> Yeah I figure if you follow along with that manual gprs configuration page on the wiki it should work
Oct 14 02:04:29 <Dave> and I'd be interested to hear the result
Oct 14 02:04:48 <APz> how much does the freerunner depend on special kernel patches to actually work?
Oct 14 02:05:01 <APz> can I just download 2.6.27, compile it and expect it to run within some degree?
Oct 14 02:05:19 <ColdFyre> my freerunner works as a phone fin with the stock kernel form om2008.9
Oct 14 02:05:20 <raster> APz: lots of stuff that isnt in upstream kernels
Oct 14 02:05:21 <raster> so no
Oct 14 02:05:34 <ColdFyre> o
Oct 14 02:06:05 <APz> I've been reading the wiki for couple of hours now, but haven't still found any place to get the actual sources
Oct 14 02:06:24 <APz> I'm currently running the kernel that came with debian installer, and I see it has no support for all features of the phone
Oct 14 02:06:33 <APz> .. especially I seem to be missing the GSM modem itself
Oct 14 02:06:46 <raster> modem is a serial port
Oct 14 02:06:48 <APz> some random things, like the button leds and stuff again works
Oct 14 02:06:57 <APz> yes, I figured that part out
Oct 14 02:07:06 <joerg_42> raster: thanks! :-)
Oct 14 02:07:11 <APz> and I see lots of references to the device, but I don't have that
Oct 14 02:07:11 <raster> basically debian is a "nice trick" but not the best/right want to run stuff on the fr
Oct 14 02:07:14 <raster> use openembedded
Oct 14 02:07:17 <raster> that will build the whole os
Oct 14 02:07:20 <raster> kernel etc. for you
Oct 14 02:07:31 <raster> it uses the right svn/git/whatever trees
Oct 14 02:07:33 <Dave> bitbake me a cake
Oct 14 02:07:34 <raster> applies the right patches
Oct 14 02:07:41 <raster> and sets up the whole cross-compiel dev env
Oct 14 02:07:48 <raster> joerg_42:  np :)
Oct 14 02:07:53 <APz> my system's a bit special case
Oct 14 02:08:00 <APz> I'm bulding the whole UI from ground up
Oct 14 02:08:07 <APz> .. building
Oct 14 02:08:24 <mwester_> You still need a toolchain, unless you plan to build that yourself too
Oct 14 02:08:40 <mwester_> And libc
Oct 14 02:08:44 <mwester_> and init scripts
Oct 14 02:08:47 <mwester_> and busybox
Oct 14 02:08:50 <mwester_> etc
Oct 14 02:08:57 <Dave> the whole mad tea party
Oct 14 02:09:17 <raster> APz:  then u DEFINITEL:Y want oe
Oct 14 02:09:18 <toggles_w> whaaazzzzup raster?
Oct 14 02:09:23 <Dave> Toggles!
Oct 14 02:09:30 <raster> i build my images and ui all with oe
Oct 14 02:09:36 <toggles_w> you made the image that makes calls? i still have the girlfriend ;-)
Oct 14 02:09:37 <joerg_42> mwester: tested SD-sticky patch?
Oct 14 02:09:39 <raster> toggles_w: boo
Oct 14 02:09:44 <Dave> heh heh
Oct 14 02:10:08 <APz> what I'm working on, will in the end remind more of a laptop than a cellphone
Oct 14 02:10:13 <toggles_w> raster: ok. you win.. no calls
Oct 14 02:10:18 <Dave> haha
Oct 14 02:10:19 <Dave> terrible
Oct 14 02:10:25 <APz> I have a working debian setup, with X running, and IceWM in the X.
Oct 14 02:10:59 <raster> APz: horrible for the freerunner
Oct 14 02:11:02 <raster> as it has no stylus
Oct 14 02:11:11 <raster> limited region on ts is usable by fingers
Oct 14 02:11:15 <raster> due to indent
Oct 14 02:11:18 <raster> no keyboard
Oct 14 02:11:22 <raster> (2 buttons)
Oct 14 02:11:23 <mwester_> bluetooth keyboard works well ;)
Oct 14 02:11:26 <raster> and a tiny screen
Oct 14 02:11:43 <APz> no stylus?
Oct 14 02:11:44 <raster> u need to do a ui specifically geared to such tiny screend and input devices
Oct 14 02:11:53 <mwester_> joerg_42: No -- my double-sided sticky tape is all dried out, and I didn't get to the shops today...
Oct 14 02:11:57 <raster> none that attaches to the device
Oct 14 02:12:01 <APz> I've already figured out the GUI
Oct 14 02:12:07 <raster> the stylus inclued with the fr is just a gimmick
Oct 14 02:12:15 <mwester_> cats love it!
Oct 14 02:12:21 <raster> the phone is a plastic blob with no stylys slot
Oct 14 02:12:28 <joerg_42> mwester: np :-)
Oct 14 02:14:44 <Dave> :D
Oct 14 02:14:51 <Dave> BLOB
Oct 14 02:29:03 <BobOfDoom> raster: http://meshy.org/~ato/tmp/rival-gang.jpg
Oct 14 02:29:10 <BobOfDoom> sorry for the crap photo quality
Oct 14 02:29:56 <raster> BobOfDoom: NOOOOO!
Oct 14 02:30:07 <raster> your homies outnumber mine
Oct 14 02:30:15 <rooly|away> i'm yer homie
Oct 14 02:30:32 * raster has to bring in the big zeee and mr-n into the gang
Oct 14 02:30:42 <BobOfDoom> :D
Oct 14 02:31:02 <rooly|away> so
Oct 14 02:31:16 <rooly|away> somebody wants me to do a research project concerning the freerunner
Oct 14 02:31:23 <raster> then my gang can equal your gang...
Oct 14 02:31:42 <BobOfDoom> raster: I acutally have a second Freerunner >.>
Oct 14 02:31:47 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 14 02:32:16 <raster> EEEK!
Oct 14 02:32:30 <raster> must.. wait.. for.. panny!
Oct 14 02:32:45 <raster> big daddy-o
Oct 14 02:32:54 <BobOfDoom> ah
Oct 14 02:33:00 <BobOfDoom> you've got me there XD
Oct 14 02:33:07 <raster> i can't find my ipaq...
Oct 14 02:33:21 * raster wonders where his gta01 got to
Oct 14 02:33:55 <mwester> I see your gangs, and raise you two Neos, one Freerunner, two Treo 650s, 5 NSLU2's, and a pair of DSM-G600s.
Oct 14 02:34:36 * mwester figures the old Clie doesn't count
Oct 14 02:34:42 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 14 02:35:11 <raster> mwester: thou must reflash all with the same os image!
Oct 14 02:35:32 <BobOfDoom> mwester: yeah they have to be running Illume or it doesnt count :p
Oct 14 02:35:42 <raster> my gang's all the same race yo! none of this ethnic blending homes!
Oct 14 02:35:48 <mwester> Well, now what's the point in that? :D  The idea is that they all run a different image so you test different things!
Oct 14 02:37:08 <raster> damn
Oct 14 02:37:16 <raster> no ipaq 3660.. where the hell did it get to...
Oct 14 02:37:22 <BobOfDoom> I suppose I could add a gumstix and wrt, but I really can't be bothered disassembling my network to do it
Oct 14 02:37:43 <raster> BobOfDoom: it needs a screen to count :)
Oct 14 02:37:59 <raster> how can u see the smiling happy faces of your homies without screens?
Oct 14 02:38:17 <BobOfDoom> hey.. don't knock the headless homies!
Oct 14 02:38:31 <raster> hahhahahaha
Oct 14 02:39:23 * mwester loves his console-less, headless little friends.
Oct 14 02:39:58 <raster> damn headless homies
Oct 14 02:40:48 <raster> BobOfDoom: i do say though.. u have quite a collection of various homies
Oct 14 02:41:03 <raster> i possibly shouldnt have thrown out my client nx80v
Oct 14 02:41:12 <raster> did anyone get linux booting on those?
Oct 14 02:41:23 <raster> just wondering if i should kick myself
Oct 14 02:41:30 <BobOfDoom> raster: I've got nothing, you should check out marex (from #hackndev)'s collection
Oct 14 02:41:45 <BobOfDoom> raster: fortunately he's in the Czech Republic, so too far away to infringe on our turf
Oct 14 02:41:46 <raster> uh oh
Oct 14 02:42:00 * raster must admit defeat
Oct 14 02:42:06 <raster> i'll stick to my small gang
Oct 14 02:43:23 <raster> i'm rather keen on the pandora tho
Oct 14 02:43:34 <raster> as that baby is going to be one fast little motherfucker of a homie
Oct 14 02:43:57 <Dave> Are you now?
Oct 14 02:44:24 <raster> i am
Oct 14 02:44:26 <raster> indeed i am
Oct 14 02:45:13 <Dave> haha, rival gangs.
Oct 14 02:45:15 <Dave> nice
Oct 14 02:45:25 <Dave> Raster, so you're a fan of the new Pandora?
Oct 14 02:45:46 <raster> Dave: ell.. i bought one
Oct 14 02:45:50 <raster> waiting for delivery
Oct 14 02:45:54 <techiem2-r> mm
Oct 14 02:45:54 <raster> lets see
Oct 14 02:46:40 <Dave> snap
Oct 14 02:46:45 <Dave> I was going to say, is it even out yet?
Oct 14 02:47:06 <Dave> Oh great, is the first thing you are going to do on it, be to install e/illume? :P
Oct 14 02:47:22 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 14 02:47:30 <Dave> I'd try to install Openmoko on it, and then post a photo.
Oct 14 02:47:40 <Dave> Owned.
Oct 14 02:47:43 <Dave> HUMILIATION!
Oct 14 02:47:49 <Dave> there we go :)
Oct 14 02:48:23 <raster> Dave:  first thing i'll do is turn it on and see if it boots
Oct 14 02:48:24 <raster> :)
Oct 14 02:48:33 <DocScrutinizer> raster: my delivery date for pandora is scheduled end of january
Oct 14 02:48:35 <raster> then 2nd thing will be getting an oe/e/illume image on
Oct 14 02:48:36 <raster> :)
Oct 14 02:48:43 <raster> DocScrutinizer: really?
Oct 14 02:48:47 <raster> how do u know?
Oct 14 02:49:11 <DocScrutinizer> it's been told on one of the pages of gp2x
Oct 14 02:49:57 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.gp2x.de/shop/index.php?osCsid=03lvkvv8gioajm467luf4g4td1
Oct 14 02:52:34 <raster> hmm
Oct 14 02:52:45 <raster> gp2x.co.uk is where i ordered mine
Oct 14 02:52:49 <raster> and no info there
Oct 14 02:52:52 <DocScrutinizer> raster: also not same date for "1.Lieferung", and the weird story about paypal payments to be returned
Oct 14 02:53:04 <DocScrutinizer> *note
Oct 14 02:53:25 <BobOfDoom> raster: anyway, that's another resolution e/Illume is running fine at: 320x480
Oct 14 02:54:29 <raster> BobOfDoom: the tunsten?
Oct 14 02:54:33 <raster> tungsten
Oct 14 02:54:35 <raster> and yeah
Oct 14 02:54:40 <raster> should work just fine in that res
Oct 14 02:54:42 <BobOfDoom> yeah, and the lifedrive
Oct 14 02:54:48 <raster> the biggest part is settign dpi right for x
Oct 14 02:54:54 <raster> as it will adapt to dpi - if its set
Oct 14 02:55:04 <raster> (within limits)
Oct 14 02:58:19 <C7> morning raster :)
Oct 14 02:59:50 <raster> C7: moo
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 14 02:59:57 2008