**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 20 02:59:57 2008
Oct 20 03:00:44 <slaxxin> mine wouldnt hook up
Oct 20 03:01:31 <Infoport> w0 resolv.conf isn't replaced each time by the /etc/resolvconf/ system?
Oct 20 03:01:42 <Infoport> w0 like in 2008.8?
Oct 20 03:01:46 <slaxxin> but users goodies will improve greatly 
Oct 20 03:01:54 <slaxxin> it will
Oct 20 03:02:28 <slaxxin> i thought qtx was  beautiful
Oct 20 03:02:59 <slaxxin> i want it back
Oct 20 03:04:26 <sicu> just add the resolv.conf stuff to /etc/network/interfaces
Oct 20 03:05:09 <sicu> heh, that was well said :S ... time to go to bed
Oct 20 03:05:50 <slaxxin> i bork my freerunner every time i try that /network/interfaces stuff off the wiki  but i can iptables just fine
Oct 20 03:06:01 <Infoport> sicu you mean to echo into resolv.conf the nameserver part?
Oct 20 03:06:43 <sicu> Infoport: yes, that's what my dozing brain was trying to say ;]
Oct 20 03:08:12 <Infoport> slaxxin I setup the iptables stuff before on my desktop (and with 2008.8) but QTextended must be missing the forwarding
Oct 20 03:08:43 <Infoport> slaxxin are you using the /etc/network/freerunner script, or the smaller solution?
Oct 20 03:08:55 <slaxxin> he smaller solution?
Oct 20 03:08:59 <sicu> slaxxin: where in the wiki are you getting this? uri?
Oct 20 03:09:00 <slaxxin> yup
Oct 20 03:10:14 <Infoport> slaxxin the smaller part for .../interfaces, or the .../freerunner script version? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Debian.2C_Ubuntu_and_others
Oct 20 03:10:39 <slaxxin> can u not just add your ip to /etc/resolv.conf in qtx?
Oct 20 03:10:52 <slaxxin> a public ip
Oct 20 03:11:32 <Infoport> slaxxin not sure, I was thinking it was using resolvconf like 2008.8 does (and replacing resolv.conf each boot)
Oct 20 03:11:43 <slaxxin> ok
Oct 20 03:12:09 <slaxxin> i borked every attempt at that
Oct 20 03:13:17 <slaxxin> i only use iptables simple solution
Oct 20 03:13:53 <Infoport> slaxxin so are you using the 9-line /etc/network/interfaces iptables solution, like here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Debian.2C_Ubuntu_and_others
Oct 20 03:14:58 <slaxxin> #iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24
Oct 20 03:14:58 <slaxxin>  
Oct 20 03:14:58 <slaxxin> #sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
Oct 20 03:14:58 <slaxxin> #ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200
Oct 20 03:16:23 <Infoport> slaxxin hmm, a little different than the wiki page I had. I'm rebooting with that one now.
Oct 20 03:16:38 <slaxxin> then as a normal user i sshto the freerunner
Oct 20 03:17:10 <slaxxin> wiki  does suck sometimes
Oct 20 03:18:03 <slaxxin> as soon as something changes the wiki  needs to be ammended instead of erased
Oct 20 03:18:18 <slaxxin> i use slack though
Oct 20 03:18:30 <Infoport> ggrrrr...now I can't ping by number again, maybe I need to add back gateway ip
Oct 20 03:19:01 <slaxxin> did u edit /etc/resolv.conf?
Oct 20 03:19:23 <slaxxin> oo
Oct 20 03:19:39 <slaxxin> u need a dns ip?
Oct 20 03:19:41 <Infoport> slaxxin no I was trying the iptables stuff in interfaces
Oct 20 03:20:03 <slaxxin> well i just run that as root then ssh in
Oct 20 03:20:12 <Infoport> slaxxin my desktop should be forwarding with masquerading
Oct 20 03:20:46 <slaxxin> i dont put that in /network/interfaces   because as i said above
Oct 20 03:21:06 <slaxxin> did u set the kernel to do it/
Oct 20 03:21:16 <Infoport> slaxxin you have the iptables stuff in resolv.conf?
Oct 20 03:21:23 <slaxxin> no
Oct 20 03:21:47 <slaxxin> as i said i run that as root from the desktop terminal
Oct 20 03:22:33 <slaxxin> i have a public ip address in there
Oct 20 03:23:36 <Infoport> doh!, I put that in the wrong interfaces file. It is still in the host though, so something is missing on FR
Oct 20 03:24:10 <slaxxin> vi /etc/resolv.conf
Oct 20 03:25:10 <slaxxin> add the ip addersses thats in your desktops /etc/resolv.conf to the freerunners /etc/resolv.conf
Oct 20 03:25:54 <slaxxin> i just use 1 but your desktop may have multiple ips
Oct 20 03:26:40 <slaxxin> u got ubuntu or something?
Oct 20 03:27:09 <Infoport> slaxxin ok I am putting public DNS entries into resolv.conf (yes I am running Ubuntu on this desktop)
Oct 20 03:29:28 <slaxxin> im sorry
Oct 20 03:29:46 <slaxxin> if i   messed up your ubuntu
Oct 20 03:30:03 <slaxxin> u like vi?
Oct 20 03:30:17 <slaxxin> if u dont install nano
Oct 20 03:30:27 <sicu> This works for me: http://pastebin.com/m3bdfbb47
Oct 20 03:30:28 <Infoport> it was ALL working before, and the only change was reflashing QTextended. I think my Ubuntu is still fine-- just the FR having issues
Oct 20 03:30:52 <sicu> and you only have to do it the first time ... after that all you have to do is ssh in
Oct 20 03:31:21 <slaxxin> ok i give it a try
Oct 20 03:31:24 <Infoport> yes I use vi most of the time (except sometimes with large scripts on desktop I use Kate or KWrite or something with syntax highlighting)
Oct 20 03:34:37 <sicu> i've also done the ssh stuff (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#SSH_Keys) so all i do when i plug the usb cable is: ssh fr
Oct 20 03:34:48 <sicu> and i'm in ... short and easy =]
Oct 20 03:35:10 <Infoport> sicu wow, now mine works fine! I have basically the exact same as you, but for some reason it wasn't restarting when I chose "Restart QTextended"
Oct 20 03:35:23 <sicu> ^^
Oct 20 03:35:37 <sicu> that's good =]
Oct 20 03:36:11 <Infoport> sicu except that you seem to have the same nameserver twice-- my 2nd entry is up echo nameserver 208.67.220.220 > resolv.conf
Oct 20 03:36:14 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rceb446c706a2 10/conf/example/frameworkd.conf: opimd: update example frameworkd.conf
Oct 20 03:36:30 <sicu> sometimes the usb connection will bork, so all you have to do is: ifdown usb0 && ifup usb0
Oct 20 03:36:38 <Infoport> (and somehow I made a typo at first when I typed it right into resolv.conf, oops)
Oct 20 03:36:53 <sicu> Infoport: ah, i do have 220 on the second one ... just a copy&paste error :p
Oct 20 03:38:37 <Infoport> sicu and the 2nd entry should have >>
Oct 20 03:39:08 <Infoport> sicu I guess that QTextended is NOT using resolvconf (which dynamically populates resolv.conf)
Oct 20 03:39:11 <sicu> yes ... sorry for pasting the wrong line
Oct 20 03:39:56 <sicu> sorry, dunno what QTX does as i'm not using it
Oct 20 03:40:04 <Infoport> sicu well, thanks for pasting so many of the right lines! between yours and slaxxin, I figured out where mine was missing in QTe (and my typos)
Oct 20 03:40:29 <slaxxin> well   im not a  lot of help
Oct 20 03:40:40 <Infoport> sicu are you using 2008.8?
Oct 20 03:40:44 <slaxxin>    but i learned something:)
Oct 20 03:41:18 <Infoport> slaxxin part of it was my confusing which /etc/network/interfaces to be changing
Oct 20 03:41:35 <slaxxin> sicu could u repost that /network/interfaces  once more?
Oct 20 03:41:40 <sicu> i was using 2007.2 (and had used it as my main phone for a couple of months), but now i'm helping out bug-testing for SHR
Oct 20 03:41:56 <Infoport> slaxxin even though I have mixed that up before, and fixed it...I should know by know
Oct 20 03:42:37 <Infoport> sicu I really liked 2007.2, but then I borked something with multi-boots, and had to reinstall, and can't get all the update/upgrades back
Oct 20 03:43:09 <Infoport> Qtopia puts stuff in other partitions than where you tell it :-(
Oct 20 03:43:13 <slaxxin> arnt there files laying around for 2007?
Oct 20 03:43:19 <sicu> slaxxin: http://pastebin.com/m4bea9ed1
Oct 20 03:43:26 <slaxxin> thanks
Oct 20 03:43:35 <sicu> np
Oct 20 03:45:01 <Infoport> slaxxin you can get the latest *flash* image, but there were upgrades for months past that which are no longer on feed
Oct 20 03:45:39 <sicu> i used to add the nameservers directly to resolv.conf until i realized that it was reset every time i rebooted
Oct 20 03:45:54 <sicu> had me confused for a while :p
Oct 20 03:46:26 <sicu> i'm not used to linux ... only just started using it when i got my FR
Oct 20 03:47:19 <sicu> good thing buying something that forces you to learn =]
Oct 20 03:47:21 <Infoport> sicu to be fair, all of the distros I use/play with "just work", and it has been a long while since I had to manually configure networking (except on FR)
Oct 20 03:47:52 <Infoport> sicu plus 2007.2 didnt reset resolv.conf each time
Oct 20 03:48:12 <slaxxin> fdom does:)
Oct 20 03:48:26 <sicu> yeh .. that's what confused me once i switched
Oct 20 03:49:36 <Infoport> slaxxin, sicu yeah 2008.8 and FDOM both reset it, and there *used* to be another solution with /etc/resolvconf/... on the wiki, but it was erased (and the newer one now in place)
Oct 20 03:51:17 <slaxxin> well maybe that was my problem then
Oct 20 03:51:42 <slaxxin> i saw the slackware section L:)
Oct 20 03:52:51 <slaxxin> which version leaves those intact?
Oct 20 03:53:05 <slaxxin> i know 1 did
Oct 20 03:53:46 <sicu> hmmm, the slackware section is completely different to all the other ones
Oct 20 03:54:19 <slaxxin> we are a little different
Oct 20 03:54:25 <sicu> nice script though
Oct 20 03:54:48 <slaxxin> our dictator is     ...... great
Oct 20 03:54:53 <sicu> haha
Oct 20 03:55:01 <slaxxin> no slippage
Oct 20 03:55:18 <slaxxin> KISS
Oct 20 03:55:47 <sicu> =]
Oct 20 03:55:49 <slaxxin> even a cave man like me can doit
Oct 20 03:56:08 <phobie> several people asked for a numptyphysics debian package...
Oct 20 03:56:08 <sicu> anyways ... it's 6am, so time to hit the sack
Oct 20 03:56:18 <phobie> I build a stable one
Oct 20 03:56:36 <phobie> http://debian.zaubberer.net/repos/sid/numptyphysics/
Oct 20 03:56:38 <slaxxin> debian is going to be very very good an 
Oct 20 03:56:45 <phobie> https://launchpad.net/~phobie/+archive
Oct 20 03:56:47 <slaxxin> yay
Oct 20 03:56:52 <slaxxin> thanks man
Oct 20 03:56:54 <phobie> the second is for ubuntu
Oct 20 03:57:35 <phobie> based on a package by Andreas Jonsson https://launchpad.net/~sonofjon/+archive
Oct 20 03:57:46 <slaxxin> no bullshit right?
Oct 20 03:58:11 <slaxxin> ok
Oct 20 03:59:15 <slaxxin> how about a battery meter an a simpler menu in debian
Oct 20 03:59:37 <slaxxin> i guess im using xfce
Oct 20 04:03:57 <Infoport> well I searched the archived notes, and apparently that revision is GONE, including where I added a link to the list email archive of the other solution. basically you added something in /etc/resolvconf/something and it was added dynamically each time. I guess the echo lines in interfaces work as well
Oct 20 04:08:04 <Dave> Infoport!
Oct 20 04:11:12 <Infoport> Dave!
Oct 20 04:11:39 <Dave> :D
Oct 20 04:19:11 <Infoport> oooh, I think I need to install SHR now that prebuilt images are available (at least as a 3rd boot)
Oct 20 04:27:48 <cjb> b
Oct 20 04:27:50 <cjb> oops
Oct 20 04:28:51 <slaxxin> getahacken
Oct 20 04:32:44 <slaxxin> pingus on 2008.9
Oct 20 04:40:27 <slaxxin> and it works!!!
Oct 20 04:41:22 <slaxxin> this will be an intresting week 
Oct 20 04:44:12 <weirdedout> cool slaxxin, I love that game.  Can't wait to show it to my kids on the FR.
Oct 20 05:00:58 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r7799f31f8a1f 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
Oct 20 05:00:58 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: Compute the rootdir in config module
Oct 20 05:00:58 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: This is because otherwise many subsystems have to reinvent a way to get the data directories.
Oct 20 05:00:58 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: With this patch, they can all use directories : "%s/%s" % (rootdir, subsystem_name)
Oct 20 05:24:08 <Infoport> hm. the SHR build from the 18th gives me a kernel image error upon reboot.
Oct 20 05:27:49 <sicu> where'd you find images from the 18th ?
Oct 20 05:28:06 <sicu> latest is 17th from what i see ....
Oct 20 05:44:57 <Infoport> sicu maybe I remember incorrectly...yes you are right, its the 17th
Oct 20 05:45:45 <Infoport> sicu I kept getting enlightenment segv errors, and then a wrong kernel image error on reboot
Oct 20 05:49:46 <Infoport> sicu did you copy a kernel image over for SHR? It looks like the rootfs already has a kernel image
Oct 20 05:55:03 <Infoport> seems like that kernel inside SHR rootfs is different from r9 or r7 kernels
Oct 20 05:56:47 <Hopscotch> good morning
Oct 20 05:59:18 <Infoport> good morning!
Oct 20 06:02:51 <Infoport> sicu now I see what happened...the included kernel doesn't have the right name. It has a link to it just called "uImage" and then I removed mine with the .bin
Oct 20 06:10:16 <Infoport> ok, my NOR & NAND use "uImage.bin" by default, so I guess I need to change that link in SHR image
Oct 20 06:14:40 <sicu> Infoport: sorry, was away for a bit ... did you get it working ?
Oct 20 06:14:41 <Dave> :P
Oct 20 06:14:46 <Dave> SICU
Oct 20 06:14:46 <sicu> DAVE!
Oct 20 06:14:49 <sicu> haha
Oct 20 06:14:54 <Dave> Reveal to us you mighty SHR sekretz!
Oct 20 06:15:13 * sicu reveals a bug or two
Oct 20 06:15:47 <Infoport> sicu I figured out some issues...there is a kernel image already in SHR rootfs, with a link named uImage, but it should be uImage.bin
Oct 20 06:16:24 <Dave> :D
Oct 20 06:17:51 <sicu> Infoport: hmmm, the ones i got worked fine ... good thing you got it sorted though =]
Oct 20 06:19:18 <Infoport> sicu did you look in the /boot/ dir? after I copied the separate uImage-2.6.24+r9.... to uImage.bin, it was using that one, and not the other at all. The other was just sitting there
Oct 20 06:20:00 <Infoport> sicu my boot problem was from removing the separate one, b/c the link wasn't named right to point to the one already in rootfs
Oct 20 06:23:54 <Infoport> sicu SHR now booting, but still regular SEGV errors
Oct 20 06:26:12 <sicu> hmmm, something's amiss
Oct 20 06:26:54 <sicu> will have to check things out later though ... gotta get to work now
Oct 20 06:28:39 <sicu> sigh, yet another night without sleep ... 
Oct 20 06:28:51 * sicu predicts a less productive day at work
Oct 20 06:29:10 <sicu> bb
Oct 20 06:29:34 <Infoport> syl
Oct 20 06:32:29 <ieatlint> sleep is for the week
Oct 20 06:33:37 <methril> G'morning
Oct 20 06:33:49 <Dave> heh
Oct 20 06:33:59 <Dave> aye aye lints
Oct 20 06:34:13 <ieatlint> hey dave
Oct 20 06:34:48 <Infoport> ieatlint but it is the week now!
Oct 20 06:35:07 <ieatlint> then it's probably time for sleep
Oct 20 06:39:03 <Infoport> ieatlint that's what SHR seems to think...get dim, sleep and crash
Oct 20 06:39:37 <ieatlint> there a new image of shr out then?
Oct 20 06:40:33 <ieatlint> october 17th... probably isn't too exciting
Oct 20 06:40:42 <Infoport> ieatlint newer than I had, but then I was visiting relatives with nothing but satellite DSL until last week
Oct 20 06:41:12 <ieatlint> lol
Oct 20 06:41:32 <ieatlint> throughput doesn't make up for latency, eh?
Oct 20 06:42:28 <Infoport> my grandmother used to have cable modem, so she isn't too happy with it. plus I had to download her WinXP updates after 2am b/c of a 200MB/day limit
Oct 20 06:42:31 <ieatlint> i spent 2 weeks in october of last year in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY... only way to get online was tethering my phone to my laptop for gprs
Oct 20 06:43:24 <ieatlint> 200mb/day... wow, that's sad
Oct 20 06:44:11 <methril> GPSR is slow, isn't it?
Oct 20 06:44:17 <methril> you did GPRS with FR?
Oct 20 06:44:24 <Infoport> yup, with an amnesty 2-5am their time. the highest "Elite" plan got 500MB/day, and the DSL was slow too
Oct 20 06:44:47 <ieatlint> no, this was before the FR... was a nokia n80
Oct 20 06:44:55 <ieatlint> gprs because there was no edge in the area
Oct 20 06:45:21 <methril> i tested some HSDPA in europe and is not bad
Oct 20 06:45:51 <ieatlint> yeah, i was on hspda with the n80 while in europe in 2006.... put us to shame in the states
Oct 20 06:46:08 <ieatlint> my provider JUST turned on hspda (tmobile)
Oct 20 06:47:00 <ieatlint> but i believe the first phone they're releasing that supports it is the android phone this wednesday (and they have their own unique 3g bands, so no unbranded phones [yet, anyway])
Oct 20 06:47:20 <ieatlint>  ... which doesn't allow tethering and has a 1gb/mo cap :(
Oct 20 06:47:30 <methril> yes, same here
Oct 20 06:47:59 <methril> some plans give you 1gb/mo and then it gives you GPRS like access (in matter of speed)
Oct 20 06:48:16 <ieatlint> yep... they could've at least made it edge
Oct 20 06:48:40 <ieatlint> edge is passable in my opinion...
Oct 20 06:49:15 <methril> yes, but only for e-mail or tiny web-brosing :)
Oct 20 06:49:32 <methril> if you see some images, it seems sloooow
Oct 20 06:49:42 <ieatlint> oh, and 1gb is a joke of a cap... will make the youtube access so fantastic
Oct 20 06:49:51 <Infoport> yeah I had to download XP SP3 at 577mb after 2am-- my grandmother asked why she doesnt get bandwidth since it costs more than cable modem (didnt have a good answer)
Oct 20 06:49:54 <methril> hehehe
Oct 20 06:50:22 <methril> it only gives you a "second line" access to connect ""almost" everywhere
Oct 20 06:50:27 <ieatlint> because the infrastructure to launch a satellite into space is slightly more than running cables to your house :)
Oct 20 06:50:56 <ieatlint> see if you can get her dual isdn? :P
Oct 20 06:52:51 <Infoport> she moved to a house next to my dad in the country, and can't get cable either. now he is sharing her DSL. she mostly does mail, but photos etc too, might watch videos from web pages, 2 grandsons who bring their own laptops, etc
Oct 20 06:53:36 <Infoport> plus Firefox 3.0 screwed up Java and she cant do online crosswords :-(
Oct 20 06:54:52 <Infoport> if she exceeds the 200MB, they throttle it back below dialup for 24hrs
Oct 20 06:55:50 <Infoport> funny I think the neighbors would ALL buy cable/cable modem if they could
Oct 20 06:56:07 <ieatlint> where is this?
Oct 20 06:56:18 <ieatlint> some state no one cares about like nebraska?
Oct 20 06:58:48 <Infoport> mid-louisiana. mostly country folks between them and the little town 6 miles away, but near them are several well-off retired families. Their closest neighbors are the Kleinpeters of Kleinpeter milk
Oct 20 06:59:23 <Infoport> those I guess FEMA shows that ppl dont care much about Louisiana
Oct 20 06:59:34 <Infoport> s/those/though/
Oct 20 06:59:34 <apt> Infoport meant: though I guess FEMA shows that ppl dont care much about Louisiana
Oct 20 07:00:08 <ieatlint> that depends if they're black or not
Oct 20 07:00:25 <ieatlint> and there's no kleinpeter milk out here in california
Oct 20 07:01:21 <Infoport> ieatlint I'm in NC now...they have it here some places. they don't use BGH on the cows :-)
Oct 20 07:02:06 * raster groans
Oct 20 07:02:30 <ieatlint> yeah, every market out here has milk and "organic" milk (i still personally contend all food is organic by definition) that doesn't contain BGH
Oct 20 07:02:58 <Infoport> heck my dad's house is a house, but one nearby neighbor has an ex-plantation with a tennis court, you'd think they would run cable from the town out to him
Oct 20 07:03:36 <ieatlint> he could pay for fibre to be run, but it wouldn't be cheap
Oct 20 07:03:39 <Infoport> ieatlint oh there are other organic milks out here, Kleinpeter's is just more of a grocery-store brand name
Oct 20 07:04:30 <Infoport> ieatlint my father used to program on mainframes, then decided he didnt "need so much technology", so now he just shares it with my grandmother *grin* (who got cable modem years ago)
Oct 20 07:05:43 <Infoport> I'm not sure about the neighbor with the plantation house...I think he has satellite TV, but he is way too "conservative" for us to pal with
Oct 20 07:06:06 <ieatlint> hah
Oct 20 07:07:02 <Infoport> my family had Quaker retreat, and he wanted their subversive activities investigated :D
Oct 20 07:08:25 <ieatlint> lol
Oct 20 07:08:26 <Infoport> hell my advocacy of OSS probably ranks me as a Communist
Oct 20 07:08:29 <ieatlint> damn immoral quakers
Oct 20 07:09:04 <raster> damn feral communist OSS hippies
Oct 20 07:09:26 <ieatlint> i could see why a southern plantation owner would take issue with quakers, however :P
Oct 20 07:09:44 <doc|home> OSS isn't communist, it's free choice to use whatever you like. If it was communist you'd only get OSS. 
Oct 20 07:10:05 <doc|home> so, yeah, unless you're stallman, it's practically libertarian! :)
Oct 20 07:10:26 <ieatlint> don't call it libertarian or i'll have issue with using it
Oct 20 07:10:28 <raster> damn feral communist OSS hippies
Oct 20 07:10:33 * raster repeats :)
Oct 20 07:10:39 <Infoport> ieatlint we're not helping *his* slaves escape. I think he has to impress poor _white_ people these days (probably all of his years actually)
Oct 20 07:10:43 <doc|home> ieatlint: that's what it is
Oct 20 07:11:07 <raster> feckin politics
Oct 20 07:11:10 <ieatlint> libertarian generally idealises a free market
Oct 20 07:11:11 <Tm_T> ...
Oct 20 07:11:21 <Tm_T> kids, this is openmoko channel
Oct 20 07:11:25 <ieatlint> socialist is the best term :P
Oct 20 07:11:25 <raster> what happened to good old fashioned "write some code damnit!"
Oct 20 07:11:37 <doc|home> ieatlint: erm, the two are opposites
Oct 20 07:11:43 <doc|home> come on, you know this
Oct 20 07:11:52 <ieatlint> it's given for free... if you don't like it, you can go out and buy proprietary software
Oct 20 07:12:01 <raster> whoever politicizes software needs a good fixin' with a 2x4 :)
Oct 20 07:12:26 <doc|home> raster: it's libertarian to defend yourself against violence too, can't do that under communism :)
Oct 20 07:12:40 <Infoport> sorry, somehow bandwidth turned to religion. I feel more spiritual about my cyber-political beliefs, so it guess slipped over
Oct 20 07:12:52 * raster brandishes his 2x4
Oct 20 07:13:07 <raster> code damnit!
Oct 20 07:13:33 * ieatlint directs raster and his 2x4 to diebold
Oct 20 07:13:49 <ieatlint> they make their money on software and politics, have at 'em
Oct 20 07:14:07 <Infoport> ooooh...I just found my bag o'cables, with my GPS antenna and USB adapters
Oct 20 07:15:03 <swc|666> commies? who/where ;>0
Oct 20 07:15:14 <raster> reds under your bed
Oct 20 07:15:31 <Infoport> my(impossible?) dream is to run my vehicle diagnostic software via WINE and adapt mini-USB to USB to serial
Oct 20 07:15:32 * raster ponder the unhapiness of having to escape crap
Oct 20 07:16:04 <raster> Infoport:  not a problem... if u use somethnig like qemu on the fr to emu an x86 box...
Oct 20 07:16:12 <lindi-> you dream is to run proprietary software?
Oct 20 07:16:20 <raster> in whihc case u could install linux on the qemu vm and use wine
Oct 20 07:16:33 <raster> it'll be wonderfulyl slow too
Oct 20 07:16:47 <leinir> raster: So the experience will be almost like running it under windows ;)
Oct 20 07:16:51 <raster> as such - thats the only way u'll ever run windows apps on a freeruner
Oct 20 07:16:52 <raster> ie
Oct 20 07:16:55 <raster> cpu emulation
Oct 20 07:17:01 <raster> leinir:  heheheh
Oct 20 07:17:04 <joerg_42> lol
Oct 20 07:17:05 <Infoport> lindi- I already own the proprietary software, which frees me from the dealership choosing options in my ECU
Oct 20 07:19:06 <Infoport> lindi- I'd like them to make a Linux version, but seems unlikely. I can install as I wish, and run with the dongle-cable, and no OSS equiv is out there
Oct 20 07:20:21 <Infoport> I just want to do *everything* with my FR
Oct 20 07:20:56 <swc|666> ewww
Oct 20 07:21:27 <raster> Infoport:  as i said
Oct 20 07:21:31 <raster> u'll need qemu
Oct 20 07:21:32 <swc|666> get the lube
Oct 20 07:21:34 <Infoport> swc|666 now now...the screen is way too tiny for perving the internet
Oct 20 07:21:40 <swc|666> :D
Oct 20 07:21:41 <raster> and emulate x86 on  an embeded arm system,
Oct 20 07:23:14 <DocsSrutinizer2> muahaha
Oct 20 07:23:52 <Infoport> raster when you put it that way... We have bullied them into recognizing Linux on their helps pages though, b/c the software "just works" under WIHNE
Oct 20 07:23:52 * doc|home eyes DocsSrutinizer2 
Oct 20 07:24:01 * doc|home prepares rifle
Oct 20 07:24:10 <DocsSrutinizer2> 486 15MHz
Oct 20 07:25:08 <Infoport> DocsSrutinizer2 surely thats not the equiv for our ARM 400Mhz?
Oct 20 07:25:43 <DocsSrutinizer2> with qemu i'd say yes
Oct 20 07:26:24 <ieatlint> i dislike driving.. it really cuts into my ability to freely drink :(
Oct 20 07:26:43 <cjb_ie> eat more lint for soakage
Oct 20 07:26:49 <Infoport> I guess there would need to be software that could combine the functionality of qemu and WINE together to reduce the effort. maybe it is no hope, but my laptop at 700Mhz is more than enough
Oct 20 07:27:43 <pb_> heh, I guess the combination of qemu+linux+wine is just to run windows directly under qemu.
Oct 20 07:28:17 <pb_> you will still struggle to get an acceptable level of performance though, I fear
Oct 20 07:28:47 <pb_> qemu is the source of the major slowness, and that is fairly hard to improve.
Oct 20 07:30:04 <DocsSrutinizer2> i stil think you'll get performance of 486/15 with qemu on a 400 ARM
Oct 20 07:30:13 <pb_> yeah, that sounds about right to me
Oct 20 07:30:41 <Infoport> *sigh* maybe they were right, I just need an Asus eeePC
Oct 20 07:31:51 <Infoport> I wonder if the new HP Touch will be very Linux-compatible? they are wooing me with the Joan Jett tune
Oct 20 07:34:28 <Infoport> a touchscreen tablet definitely would fill the gap between clunky desktop and handheld pda/phone :D
Oct 20 07:35:36 <Infoport> grr...SHR give SEGV faults without running apps even, guess I'll reboot to QTex or ASU
Oct 20 07:36:19 <Infoport> well, I'm off for a snack, and then dream of touchscreen tablets!
Oct 20 07:56:54 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r44be1f273da2 10/ (12 files in 2 dirs): 
Oct 20 07:56:54 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: opimd: Created 'Backend' and 'Domain' classes
Oct 20 07:56:54 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: It has to be done because we don't want to register the backends and the domains at import time.
Oct 20 07:56:54 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: So instead we register only the classes at import time using the metaclasses, and then we can register all the
Oct 20 07:56:56 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: domains and the backends.
Oct 20 07:56:58 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: I also renamed the modules to remove the '-' characters, cause we have to import the modules manually.
Oct 20 08:06:49 <Kronk> Can anyone recommend a decent uImage and jffs for 2007.2 ?
Oct 20 08:07:04 <Kronk> gta01
Oct 20 08:10:25 <Shlee> QT 4.3
Oct 20 08:10:48 <Kronk> lol
Oct 20 08:11:02 <Kronk> QT 4.3 more stable that 4.4 ?
Oct 20 08:11:10 <Kronk> I'm playing particuarly with 2007.2 ;)
Oct 20 08:11:52 <paulproteus> Shlee, I'm trying to decide between Qt 4.3.3 and Qt Extended 4.4.
Oct 20 08:11:57 <paulproteus> Do you have a suggestion either way?
Oct 20 08:12:48 <Shlee> 4.3 is stable. 4.4 is unstable :)
Oct 20 08:13:27 <Kronk> Haven't loaded 4.3 to my GTA02 yet might give it a bash :)
Oct 20 08:13:38 <paulproteus> Shlee, And you're using the latest mwester kernel on the Qtopia download page?
Oct 20 08:14:30 <Shlee> Yes, with the modules.
Oct 20 08:14:45 <Kronk> Has anyone had any luck getting gprs goin on QT 4.3 do you know ?
Oct 20 08:17:34 <Tm_T> I do with Qtextended
Oct 20 08:18:51 <Shlee> The next QT 4.4 should fix all the annoying issues, so once that's out - upgrade
Oct 20 08:19:07 <Kronk> in 4.3 I take it Tm_T ? Is there a howto kicking around do you know. I checked the QT website and openmoko wiki but couldn't seem to find anything ?
Oct 20 08:21:11 <CIA-49> openmoko: 03tick * r4725 10/developers/tick/touchtest/ (. touch_test.py): 
Oct 20 08:21:11 <CIA-49> openmoko: [touchtest] Adding a tiny python efl application that
Oct 20 08:21:11 <CIA-49> openmoko:  allow users to observe the event's of touch screen.
Oct 20 08:23:24 <Tm_T> Kronk: no, 4.4.2 (/.1)
Oct 20 08:23:41 <Tm_T> Shlee: says who?
Oct 20 08:23:54 <Kronk> ta :) Tm_T
Oct 20 08:26:52 <Ghiottone> hi all
Oct 20 08:27:02 <Kronk> howdy :)
Oct 20 08:27:12 <Ghiottone> is there a package for lesstif toolkit?
Oct 20 08:28:28 <ronny> oO people still use that ?!
Oct 20 08:29:10 <ronny> it kinda died like 2 years ago
Oct 20 08:31:14 <Ghiottone> any other motif compliant toolkit would do
Oct 20 08:31:21 <Ghiottone> I'm looking to compile ddd
Oct 20 08:32:04 <ronny> oh, i dont think there is any sane way to use it on the phone anyway
Oct 20 08:32:55 <Ghiottone> it's for the host
Oct 20 08:33:13 <Ghiottone> I managed to connect it to qemu's gdb interface
Oct 20 08:33:48 <Ghiottone> and I think it could connect to a gdb server running on the Neo
Oct 20 08:34:04 <ronny> what os is on the host? virtually all linux distros should have binary packages of ddd
Oct 20 08:34:27 <ronny> i sugest to take a look into nemiver tho
Oct 20 08:34:43 <Ghiottone> ronny, ddd needs recompiling becase you have to specify the arm for target
Oct 20 08:34:49 <Ghiottone> ronny, nemiver?
Oct 20 08:35:12 <ronny> another debugger, i dotn know how good it works for cross-targets tho
Oct 20 08:37:22 <Ghiottone> ronny, oh I see. I'll have a look at it then. thanks
Oct 20 08:51:18 <pooze> what's the devicename for the nand disk?
Oct 20 08:51:37 <pooze> I've booted on microSD, and would like to access some files on the nand disk, but can't seem to find the device-name.
Oct 20 08:52:41 <mjr> /dev/mtd*
Oct 20 08:54:35 <pooze> hmm... shouldn't the correct mtd device contain a valid pratition-table?
Oct 20 08:54:42 <mjr> nnnno
Oct 20 08:54:51 <pooze> howcome?
Oct 20 08:55:20 <pooze> it's just a raw filesystem on the entire device?
Oct 20 08:56:23 <mjr> well there are partitions, but it's not a "normal" block device and not handled as such
Oct 20 08:57:33 <pooze> which in turn means that fdisk -l on that device wouldn't work?
Oct 20 08:57:49 <pooze> (as I see it doesn't here)
Oct 20 08:57:50 <mjr> no, it wouldn't
Oct 20 08:59:43 <pooze> hmm... how would you suggest finding the correct device then? trying to mount all of them until you get a successfull mount?
Oct 20 08:59:47 * Tm_T huggles mjr 
Oct 20 08:59:55 <pooze> I tried looking through dmesg | less as well, but didn't find a clue there.
Oct 20 09:01:16 <mjr> I don't recall the canonical way to do that (or the canonical partition numbers), trying an ro mount seems okay to me...
Oct 20 09:02:21 <pb__> what does /proc/mtd say?
Oct 20 09:02:36 <pb__> you should be able to identify the correct partition by its name, something like "rootfs".
Oct 20 09:08:33 <pooze> pb_: mtd (without any number) doesn't exist.
Oct 20 09:08:52 <pooze> pb_: rootfs is linked to my microsd-card as I've booted from it.
Oct 20 09:08:58 <pb__> pooze: in /proc, right?
Oct 20 09:09:01 <pb__> not /dev or any other place
Oct 20 09:11:05 <pooze> pb_: ah, /proc/mtd says mtd6 is my rootfs
Oct 20 09:11:13 <pooze> is that the nand disk?
Oct 20 09:11:29 <pb__> yeah, it should be.
Oct 20 09:11:33 <pooze> mounting it doesn't work ( mount -t jffs2 -o ro /dev/mtd6 /mnt/net )
Oct 20 09:11:37 <pb__> /dev/mtdblock6 is actually the name of the device you need to use
Oct 20 09:11:44 <pooze> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/mtd6,
Oct 20 09:11:51 <pb__> mtd6 is a different way of mapping it which won't work for mounting
Oct 20 09:12:39 <pooze> pb_: ah.. that worked.
Oct 20 09:12:42 <pooze> thank you
Oct 20 09:14:24 <CIA-49> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r74d6f47d27ea 10/classes/icecc.bbclass: [icecc.bbclass] Add connman into blacklist
Oct 20 10:07:29 <ecraven> hey all ;) what's the current suggestion for a stable system for phone/sms and gps?
Oct 20 10:08:31 <max_posedon> no one
Oct 20 10:08:57 <max_posedon> But, you should choose FDOM.
Oct 20 10:09:13 <prjktdtnt> ecraven: I'd say either 2008.x or FDOM seem to be the most functional although I'm really looking forward to when FSO gains a useful GUI
Oct 20 10:09:26 <ecraven> FDOM?
Oct 20 10:09:58 <max_posedon> Fat and Dirty Openmoko
Oct 20 10:10:00 * mjr is trying debian/fso at the moment again... at least I could take a phone call
Oct 20 10:10:05 <max_posedon> check openmoko.org for links
Oct 20 10:10:06 <mjr> (at least once ;)
Oct 20 10:10:59 <prjktdtnt> mjr: 2008.x works fine for me when it comes to making and receiving calls where FSO never worked properly, oh and deleting voicemail while using FSO, good luck
Oct 20 10:11:28 <mjr> voicemail, whassat...
Oct 20 10:12:04 <prjktdtnt> mjr: the bane of my existence recently lol
Oct 20 10:14:58 <CIA-49> openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r6e503946843d 10/packages/efl1/ (epdf/fix-plugin-path-check_after_r36364.patch epdf_svn.bb): [epdf] Add a new patch for epdf.
Oct 20 10:19:56 <dns53> i use 2008.9 and tango gps, navit also works once configured
Oct 20 10:21:23 <ecraven> is there a milestone iv yet?
Oct 20 10:22:06 <dns53> not yet, they seem to appear whenever
Oct 20 10:22:39 <tomboy64> is someone here familiar with qt-extended and gprs?
Oct 20 10:22:51 <ecraven> is there a simple *working* gps tracer? tangogps tends to crash a lot, so my gps logs have gaps
Oct 20 10:23:03 <tomboy64> the gprs site on the wiki says the ui is crashing the phone
Oct 20 10:23:22 <tomboy64> but with 4.4 this seems not to be the case. still i'm not able to connect gprs-wise
Oct 20 10:23:24 <dns53> tango gps crashes sometimes during loading maps, for best results zoom out
Oct 20 10:24:29 <ecraven> dns53: not a solution ;)
Oct 20 10:55:30 * beni_ dont has much problems with tangogps
Oct 20 10:56:01 <bapt> Hi all
Oct 20 10:56:12 <dns53> tango gps is great but it does crash a lot which cam be bad when you are trying to contribute to openstreetmap
Oct 20 10:56:15 <bapt> I'm the new owner of a freerunner :)
Oct 20 10:56:28 <dns53> great to hear
Oct 20 10:56:33 <beni_> dns53: i do contribute and at my phone it crashes very seldomly
Oct 20 10:56:57 <beni_> in fact its currently my main use of the neo
Oct 20 10:56:59 <bapt> it's wonderful but I have a small problem with sound in the headphone
Oct 20 10:57:32 <bapt> the sound is to low
Oct 20 10:57:40 <bapt> (2008.9 up do date)
Oct 20 10:57:58 <dns53> have you tried changing the volume with alsamixer or something?
Oct 20 10:58:02 <bapt> I can't find a way to upper it 
Oct 20 10:58:12 <bapt> I have tried with alsamixer
Oct 20 10:58:15 <bapt> yes
Oct 20 10:58:46 <bapt> but alsamixer but changing things in alsamixer during a phone call doesn't change anything
Oct 20 11:03:09 <bapt> all levels are down
Oct 20 11:12:11 <DocScrutinizer> bapt: use <tab> to see all controls of alsamixer
Oct 20 11:13:14 <DocScrutinizer> bapt: or just fix /usr/share/scenarios/gsmhandset.state
Oct 20 11:16:29 <DocScrutinizer> bapt: if using alsamixer during call, you have to issue a "alsactl -f /usr/share/scenarios/gsmhandset.state store" anyway, otherwise changes will get lost at end of call
Oct 20 11:16:44 <DocScrutinizer> during call that is
Oct 20 11:49:15 <Nobody96> moin
Oct 20 11:50:10 <Zorkman_> moin
Oct 20 11:50:44 <Zorkman_> anybody know if suspend-resume works fine on Qt extended? does it corrupt the sd card?
Oct 20 11:55:04 <dns53> it has not corrupted mine yet but that's only with limited testing
Oct 20 11:57:00 <Shlee> QTextended 4.4 has alot of problems.. the sd corruption issue doesn't seem have happen as the release doesn't use the card much.
Oct 20 11:57:42 <Zorkman_> thanks for the info
Oct 20 11:57:53 <Zorkman_> is there a list with known bugs of qt extended?
Oct 20 11:58:06 <Shlee> the major problem is the sms cloning issue, the fact something with a 128MB flash and external memory can have a "sms full" limit is stupid
Oct 20 11:58:19 <Zorkman_> true...
Oct 20 11:58:44 <Zorkman_> what about stability? i mean sending and recieving messages or calls withouth problems
Oct 20 11:58:46 <Shlee> the new image has the timezone issue fixed but I sometimes lose the clock
Oct 20 11:59:08 <Shlee> It sleeps/wakes on call/sms.. the battery life is less than the 4.3 release
Oct 20 11:59:36 <Zorkman_> i see
Oct 20 12:00:04 <Shlee> Stability... the gui has crashed afew times but the phone is stable enough
Oct 20 12:00:15 <Shlee> like.. the Qtopia releases are impressive
Oct 20 12:00:39 <ecraven> has anyone tried uArch on the freerunner?
Oct 20 12:00:59 <Shlee> Everything looks nice, it's responsive and feature filled
Oct 20 12:03:49 <Soulnoob> Where can I configure which application categories to display as icons?
Oct 20 12:05:59 <gromez> Soulnoob: /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu something like that
Oct 20 12:06:51 <Soulnoob> Great :) Thank you!
Oct 20 12:16:44 <bapt> DocScrutinizer: ok thanks I'll try
Oct 20 12:20:29 <bapt> still too low and the headphone is 100
Oct 20 12:37:18 <DocScrutinizer> bapt: please see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_audio_subsystem and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-October/000703.html
Oct 20 12:38:23 <bapt> DocScrutinizer: ok 
Oct 20 12:44:46 <DocScrutinizer> bapt: nota bene: the red path for mic-to-modem isn't actually correct as we don't use PGA/ALC and go direct from mic-amp via micmux to monomixer. Still there are quite a couple of level settings involved for both mic and handset-speaker path. Not easy to spot the right ones in alsamixer
Oct 20 12:47:02 <bapt> DocScrutinizer: ouh quite complicated for me :)
Oct 20 12:47:20 <bapt> I'll have a look a that later 
Oct 20 12:47:26 <bapt> (I have some work now)
Oct 20 12:47:43 <bapt> thanks for the links, I will study that
Oct 20 13:38:08 <Kred> Does the internal memory die off after certain reads/writes?
Oct 20 13:38:13 <Kred> I mean, after certain amount
Oct 20 13:42:25 <pb__> the flash, you mean?
Oct 20 13:42:57 <Kred> Yes
Oct 20 13:43:10 <mjr> Yes, and "certain" is "high enough if you don't just dick around with it for fun"
Oct 20 13:43:13 <pb__> reads don't affect it, but all flash has a finite life in terms of write cycles.
Oct 20 13:43:33 <mjr> and "dick around" is "just see how far it can really go"
Oct 20 13:43:44 <Kred> :)
Oct 20 13:44:02 <Kred> Good to know, thank you both
Oct 20 13:46:41 <ulf> who can i see if i have Om 2008.8 or Om 2008.9
Oct 20 14:08:15 <jadams__> holy crap my scap is gone
Oct 20 14:09:42 <Dave> jadams!
Oct 20 14:09:51 <Dave> Yeah, scap reset recently... a pity, right? :[
Oct 20 14:12:44 <Andu1> hi@everyone.
Oct 20 14:13:12 <Andu1> i try using the qemu to see, if the neo fits for me, but Im having problems with it.
Oct 20 14:13:28 <Andu1> anyone using it, proberly an can send me a working env fil?
Oct 20 14:14:12 <Andu1> argh, missing letters, making me sentences unreadable... :
Oct 20 14:15:18 <Andu1> I try to use qemu, but my env file ist not working, because the version installed as described in the wiki starts an OS in the Emulator, that does nothing, and an other combination only shows me the boot manager again and again
Oct 20 14:15:27 <Andu1> thanks, If anyone has an idea
Oct 20 14:17:22 <Dave> :x
Oct 20 14:27:20 <Andu1> mh, it doesn't seems to be really active here :D had to leave now. if anyone feels responsible for helping me: witzbringer@gmx.de :D I try to read it and now istall the prebuild binaries for vista ...
Oct 20 14:27:24 <Andu1> thanks!
Oct 20 14:31:26 <mwester> re
Oct 20 14:34:43 <Dave> Fucking freerunner...
Oct 20 14:34:47 <Dave> Hey Mwester, how goes?
Oct 20 14:41:12 <mwester> It's Monday.  And, on top of that, it's morning.   But on the bright side, the week can only get better from here.
Oct 20 14:44:02 <CM_work> :)
Oct 20 14:44:55 <mwester> hehehe! http://www.dilbert.com/fast/
Oct 20 14:45:36 <mwester> Must have been an iphone...
Oct 20 14:46:20 <Dave> o.O
Oct 20 14:46:39 <Dave> Mwester, depends how SHR testing goes...
Oct 20 14:53:01 <CIA-49> openmoko: 03werner * r4726 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/ (4 files): 
Oct 20 14:53:01 <CIA-49> openmoko: Moving towards the use of SDIO interrupts instead of polling.
Oct 20 14:53:01 <CIA-49> openmoko: - s3c-mmc-sdio-int.patch: Christer Weinigel's SDIO interrupt changes (doesn't
Oct 20 14:53:01 <CIA-49> openmoko:  work yet)
Oct 20 14:53:01 <CIA-49> openmoko: - s3c-mmc-hdrmig-fix.patch: build fixes for recent header migration
Oct 20 14:53:04 <CIA-49> openmoko: - hif-linux-sdio.patch: removed bus width change, which is done in the stack
Oct 20 14:53:06 <CIA-49> openmoko: - series: added s3c-mmc-sdio-int.patch and s3c-mmc-hdrmig-fix.patch
Oct 20 14:56:09 <ulf> how do i know if i have Om 2008.8 or Om 2008.9?
Oct 20 15:03:29 <Zorkman_> anybody in here who knows something about the wireless?
Oct 20 15:03:34 <Zorkman_> iwconfig says i'm connected 
Oct 20 15:03:37 <Zorkman_> and i did udhcpc eth0
Oct 20 15:03:43 <Zorkman_> and it added dns servers
Oct 20 15:04:01 <Zorkman_> but when i try to ping it takes a very long time and then i get a "bad address"
Oct 20 15:06:31 <Zorkman_> anybody?
Oct 20 15:07:59 <lindi-> Zorkman_: iki.fi/lindi/print-net-settings
Oct 20 15:08:31 <Zorkman_> on the FR?
Oct 20 15:09:03 <lindi-> Zorkman_: on all affected systems
Oct 20 15:11:23 <Cervajz> Hello everyone
Oct 20 15:13:00 <Cervajz> Please help me with installing Pidign :'( I have new system (now flashed), but when I try install pidgin (opkg install pidgin), it returns an error: "An error ocurred, return value: 2." Do you know, what it means?
Oct 20 15:13:10 <Cervajz> Pidgin*
Oct 20 15:16:52 <Dave> Hello lindi
Oct 20 15:19:20 <Cervajz> Anyone, please?
Oct 20 15:20:44 <Zorkman_> lindi-: i've ran the script on my Fr but i still have the same problem
Oct 20 15:20:53 <Zorkman_> a few errors are also being displayed
Oct 20 15:21:28 <Nobody96> re
Oct 20 15:21:51 <Zorkman_> Cervajz: there is a wiki page which listst all the error codezs
Oct 20 15:23:01 <lindi-> Zorkman_: you run commands from internet withoutunderstanding what5hey do? ;)
Oct 20 15:23:29 <Zorkman_> lindi-: of course, that is not more dangerous or insecure than using the FR
Oct 20 15:23:33 <Cervajz> Zorkman_: Thank you, I got it :)
Oct 20 15:26:08 <lindi-> Zorkman_: rright . i hope you cant connect it so that it cant sendspam hdere
Oct 20 15:26:57 <lindi-> Zorkman_: seriously though, it just prints info that could help in fixing the issue
Oct 20 15:33:26 <Zorkman_> lindi-: if you're interested: pastebin.com/m225882e9
Oct 20 16:02:36 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r7e815f259b2f 10/fsod/src/subsystems/Device/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
Oct 20 16:02:36 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: 1.) Change some log domains
Oct 20 16:02:36 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: 2.) Fix segfault in idlenotifier plugin and enable it on startup again
Oct 20 16:02:36 <CIA-49> freesmartphone.org: 3.) plugins can now have per-device "disable" key
Oct 20 16:23:18 <slaxxin> can i opkg upgrade yet?
Oct 20 16:24:08 * mwester consults his magic 8-ball
Oct 20 16:24:13 <slaxxin> fdom 20080927
Oct 20 16:24:18 <slaxxin> :)
Oct 20 16:24:28 <slaxxin> and?
Oct 20 16:24:58 * mwester 's magic 8-ball seems to have developed a crack...
Oct 20 16:25:03 <slaxxin> no news is good news:S
Oct 20 16:25:22 <slaxxin> nagnabbit
Oct 20 16:25:24 <viq> "Maybe, if the wind is south-south-west, and temperature is above 10C"
Oct 20 16:25:40 <slaxxin> better hold what ya got
Oct 20 16:25:55 * mwester consults his weather monitor.
Oct 20 16:26:20 <mwester> west-northwest here, temp is 47F  (someone else can do the conversion)
Oct 20 16:26:20 <slaxxin> damn the openmoko has weather too?
Oct 20 16:26:47 <slaxxin> yaaaay
Oct 20 16:27:03 <mwester> No, but not that I think of it, if I put the bluetooth serial adaptor on the weather monitor, I bet I can get wview to work on the neo.
Oct 20 16:27:13 <slaxxin> i wanna know whos responcible for this
Oct 20 16:27:13 <mwester> s/not/now/
Oct 20 16:27:14 <apt> mwester meant: No, but now that I think of it, if I put the bluetooth serial adaptor on the weather monitor, I bet I can get wview to work on the neo.
Oct 20 16:27:31 <mwester> Thank you apt. 
Oct 20 16:27:46 <slaxxin> so i can slap em on the back
Oct 20 16:28:52 * sicu swaps mwester's 8ball with a Sarcastic Ball
Oct 20 16:33:37 <mwester> slaxxin:  you ask questions that presume there is some form of QA for any of the distros at this time ;) 
Oct 20 16:35:48 <mwester> To be serious, the stable feeds should be good, but there is no testing as a whole, only testing of individual parts AFAIK.  (and some argue that the testing is limited to "does it build ok").  So opkg upgrade is always a risk, and the experience of "yesterday" may be different from "today"...
Oct 20 16:36:39 <Dave> apt, skjera?
Oct 20 16:37:24 <slaxxin> there should be a spot that tells ANYONE the CORRECT way to do what needs to be done without people havein to come in here an idle an wait for an answer when they could just almost completely help themselves
Oct 20 16:38:05 <slaxxin> im dogging that wiki i know    byt     what gives
Oct 20 16:39:20 <slaxxin> those stickies in linus questions.org seem to work very well
Oct 20 16:40:07 <slaxxin> without having to sift through a bunch of XXXXXXX  to get to the real deal
Oct 20 16:40:29 <slaxxin> sorry for the rant but it needed to be said
Oct 20 16:40:44 <Dave> :O
Oct 20 16:41:26 <sicu> :o
Oct 20 16:41:38 <sicu> skjera?
Oct 20 16:43:32 <mwester> slaxxin:  it's  a wiki -- if everyone would take a moment to edit pages to add the bits they needed, and get rid of the obsolete or clutter, it would be better.
Oct 20 16:44:08 <Soulnoob> Good idea, I should make an account.
Oct 20 16:45:58 <Dave> apt, hva gjør du?
Oct 20 16:49:45 <sicu> ~test
Oct 20 16:49:45 <apt> Failed!
Oct 20 16:50:35 <Zorkman_> ~.~
Oct 20 16:51:12 <Zorkman_> I boot from SD the latest FDOM with the latest daily kernel and i have no usb connection (probably that g_ether stuff), which kernel do i need to use?
Oct 20 17:01:23 <mattl> tcflush failed: Bad file descriptor
Oct 20 17:01:32 <mattl> ^^ getting that when doing GPRS?
Oct 20 17:02:18 <Dave> :o
Oct 20 17:02:23 <Dave> well, that's not good.
Oct 20 17:02:48 <xhr17> my freerunner is acting strange - it shuts down after about 10 seconds...
Oct 20 17:03:08 <xhr17> I have it plugged into usb.
Oct 20 17:03:43 <xhr17> it will show the orange openmoko screen if i press power, but it goes away after a few seconds.
Oct 20 17:04:37 <xhr17> if i hold aux and press power, it shows the boot menu, i can change the option and boot different ways, but the phone shuts down before i can do anything.
Oct 20 17:04:45 <mattl> xhr17: sounds like the battery is low. try booting it into the menu and leaving it for a few mins
Oct 20 17:05:17 <mattl> Dave: yeah. Using FDOM...
Oct 20 17:05:27 <xhr17> mattl: i try.
Oct 20 17:05:39 <xhr17> but it turns off after about 10 seconds.
Oct 20 17:06:22 <Cervajz> Hello, do anybody use Pidgin on Om2008.9?
Oct 20 17:06:34 <mattl> Cervajz: tdobson does.
Oct 20 17:06:41 <xhr17> ...
Oct 20 17:06:43 <Dave> I use it on 2007
Oct 20 17:06:50 <Dave> it works fine
Oct 20 17:06:52 <xhr17> anyone else have any ideas?
Oct 20 17:07:00 <dos1> i was using on 2007.2
Oct 20 17:07:04 <dos1> but now it segfaults :x
Oct 20 17:07:15 <Cervajz> dos1: Yes, exactly :(
Oct 20 17:07:15 <dos1> (on starting, after some upgrade)
Oct 20 17:07:42 <Cervajz> dos1: But it works on FAD ...
Oct 20 17:07:54 <dos1> fad?
Oct 20 17:08:07 <Cervajz> dos1: Fat and Dirty...etc
Oct 20 17:08:15 <dos1> ah, fdom ;p
Oct 20 17:08:24 <Cervajz> dos1: I'm sorry FDOM
Oct 20 17:08:26 <Dave> ;D
Oct 20 17:08:32 <lindi-> illegal and ... :)
Oct 20 17:08:47 <Dave> :D
Oct 20 17:08:58 <Dave> yeah, that's how lindi likes it apparently :p
Oct 20 17:09:34 <Dave> Speaking of which, any revolutions or revelations on your end Lindi?
Oct 20 17:09:37 <Dave> I forget where you left off last.
Oct 20 17:09:43 <Dave> Squashin' bugs all over the place.
Oct 20 17:09:44 <Cervajz> Do you have any ideas for another IM app?
Oct 20 17:10:54 <Dave> What, it doesn't work for you?
Oct 20 17:11:26 <dos1> Dave:
Oct 20 17:11:26 <dos1> (19:07:04) dos1: but now it segfaults :x
Oct 20 17:11:26 <dos1> (19:07:15) Cervajz: dos1: Yes, exactly :(
Oct 20 17:11:53 <dos1> Cervajz: finch is working, but it's quite unusable
Oct 20 17:12:27 <Dave> I didn't know he was referring to pidgin
Oct 20 17:12:32 <Dave> heh
Oct 20 17:12:39 <lindi-> Dave: ?
Oct 20 17:14:27 <Soulnoob> Have anyone found a good hard-case for the mokos?
Oct 20 17:14:34 * tdobson uses pidgin
Oct 20 17:15:05 <Tm_T> Soulnoob: well I use the same case I use with iPaq
Oct 20 17:15:16 <Tm_T> but not optimal, has some extra space left
Oct 20 17:15:42 * sicu puts the FR between a rock and a hard case and stomps
Oct 20 17:15:45 <sicu> there, no more space
Oct 20 17:16:21 <Soulnoob> eeeww.
Oct 20 17:16:29 <Dave> haha
Oct 20 17:16:37 <Soulnoob> I dont want to stomp, but I think I can pad it up.
Oct 20 17:16:57 <Tm_T> I would rather use that space for a keyboard (;)
Oct 20 17:17:29 <Soulnoob> Is it that much extra?
Oct 20 17:17:41 <Tm_T> Soulnoob: no, so would need really small keyb
Oct 20 17:17:56 <Tm_T> more like, half inch extra height in case
Oct 20 17:18:44 <Soulnoob> Oh.
Oct 20 17:18:49 <Tm_T> Krusell brand this is
Oct 20 17:18:50 <lindi-> Tm_T: they are around 80 EUR
Oct 20 17:18:58 <Tm_T> lindi-: what are?
Oct 20 17:19:01 <Soulnoob> You will have trouble typing on a keyboard that small.
Oct 20 17:19:12 <lindi-> Tm_T: small bt keyboarsd
Oct 20 17:19:24 <Tm_T> lindi-: well not the kind I would like to have
Oct 20 17:19:49 <Soulnoob> >_< wait.... height is in what axis relative to the moko?
Oct 20 17:20:07 <Tm_T> Soulnoob: width in moko axis
Oct 20 17:28:21 <gurugentoo> here's a small usb foldable one that I just got http://www.accstation.com/dothxxxxkb07.html?acprcnetadtf081006=dothxxxxkb07
Oct 20 17:31:01 <Cervajz> Ok, thanks for help. Another question - How can I umount mmc card? 'Coz "umount /dev/mmcblk0p1" didn't works
Oct 20 17:32:06 <Cervajz> Cervajz: Error message is : Device or resource is busy
Oct 20 17:32:17 <cjb_ie> then there's something using it :)
Oct 20 17:32:42 <Cervajz> cjb_ie: Yes, but what..? :)
Oct 20 17:32:49 <cjb_ie> i don't know if the image you're using includes fuser or lsof, but one of those might be able to tell you
Oct 20 17:33:28 <Cervajz> cjb_ie: I have fuser
Oct 20 17:34:30 <cjb_ie> fuser -c /mounteddir   where /mounteddir is where the mmc is mounted
Oct 20 17:36:05 <Cervajz> cjb_ie: -c didn't work, but -m did
Oct 20 17:36:47 <cjb_ie> Cervajz: glad to help :)
Oct 20 17:36:55 <Cervajz> cjb_ie: Thank you
Oct 20 17:36:58 <DocsSrutinizer2> so what's been using it? indexing service?
Oct 20 17:37:58 <Cervajz> DocScrutinizer: no, mediaserver, quicklauncher and qpe
Oct 20 17:38:53 <DocsSrutinizer2> mediaserver probably what I meant. Or qpe.
Oct 20 17:39:03 <Dave> Hei Joerg :)
Oct 20 17:39:04 <DocsSrutinizer2> annoying
Oct 20 17:39:16 <Cervajz> I have killed them all 
Oct 20 17:39:19 <Cervajz> :D
Oct 20 17:39:24 <DocsSrutinizer2> Dave: hi
Oct 20 17:40:00 <cjb_ie> kill, kill, KILL!
Oct 20 17:40:41 <Cervajz> Holly crap, I  don't have mkfs.vfat :(
Oct 20 17:41:05 <Dave> scary
Oct 20 17:41:09 <Dave> What did I walk in on here? :D
Oct 20 17:42:54 <DocScrutinizer> fuser -
Oct 20 17:42:59 <DocScrutinizer>        -k     Kill  processes  accessing  the  file.
Oct 20 17:43:13 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Oct 20 17:44:30 <Dave>       -u Kill user accessing the phone.
Oct 20 17:44:44 <Cervajz> Dave: :D
Oct 20 17:45:12 <DocScrutinizer> -signal
Oct 20 17:45:13 <DocScrutinizer>               Use the specified signal instead of SIGKILL when killing processes.
Oct 20 17:46:09 <Cervajz> Sh*t! Sh*t! Sh*t! I can't split my 4GB card, no way.... !
Oct 20 17:46:33 <DocScrutinizer> use a cutter or an axe ;-)
Oct 20 17:47:05 <Dave> chop chop chop
Oct 20 17:47:36 <Cervajz> DocScrutinizer: Yes, nice idea...where is my cigar lighter...?
Oct 20 17:48:35 <xhr17> ...
Oct 20 17:48:50 <DocScrutinizer> cfdsk?
Oct 20 17:49:21 <Dave> cfdisk ftw!
Oct 20 17:49:44 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Oct 20 17:49:55 <Cervajz> What filesystem do you use?
Oct 20 17:50:00 <Dave> Joerg, can we get together and conspire to create an awesome hardware redesign/revision?
Oct 20 17:50:37 <DocScrutinizer> lol - too late ;-)
Oct 20 17:51:08 <DocScrutinizer> Dave: problem isn't to create but to actually get it built
Oct 20 17:51:33 <Dave> I meant actually get something made, silly.
Oct 20 17:52:02 <DocScrutinizer> I can't etch 8layer, I can't solder G
Oct 20 17:52:06 <DocScrutinizer> BGA
Oct 20 17:52:23 <Dave> So
Oct 20 17:52:32 <Dave> That's what Taiwan or the Chinese are for?
Oct 20 17:52:42 <Dave> :P
Oct 20 17:52:44 <DocScrutinizer> one of their tasks
Oct 20 17:52:58 <Dave> or, to a lesser extent, those korean children.
Oct 20 18:12:13 <Ades> algun latino
Oct 20 18:15:23 <noaXess> hi all
Oct 20 18:15:58 <noaXess> i have qtextended 4.4.1 installed in my neo freerunner.. now the opkg feed's points to buildhost.openmoko.org
Oct 20 18:16:10 <noaXess> for qtextend, what feed's i need to change.. or point them to?
Oct 20 18:16:24 <noaXess> i found this http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/027997.html
Oct 20 18:16:33 <noaXess> but that is for om2008.. 
Oct 20 18:21:02 <Sylar91> hi, I'm getting some error with opkg, anybody could help me please?
Oct 20 18:21:40 <noaXess> Sylar91: you mean the signatre failer 404?
Oct 20 18:22:05 <Dave> Sylars!
Oct 20 18:22:22 <Sylar91> I get this error: parseVersion: ERROR: epoch in version is not numberparseVersion: ERROR: epoch in version is not numberparseVersion: ERROR: epoch in version is not numberparseVersion: ERROR: epoch in version is not number
Oct 20 18:22:30 <Sylar91> and it can't follow dependencies...
Oct 20 18:22:35 <Sylar91> so I can't install anything
Oct 20 18:22:39 <Sylar91> (Hi Dave)
Oct 20 18:22:55 <dos1> Sylar91: i have the same errors, but opkg works
Oct 20 18:23:22 <Dave> o_O
Oct 20 18:23:29 <Sylar91> for me it downloads the package, but it can't follow dependencies 
Oct 20 18:23:45 <Sylar91> I'm using the illume 12/10 os
Oct 20 18:25:16 <Sylar91> no solution? :(
Oct 20 18:28:42 <Dave> heh
Oct 20 18:28:46 <Dave> illume
Oct 20 18:34:16 <noaXess> are the openmoko feds the same as that one for qtextended.. i have qtextended 4.4.1 installed
Oct 20 18:34:23 <noaXess> feeds ^
Oct 20 18:36:02 <Sylar91> no...
Oct 20 18:36:55 <noaXess> Sylar91: then what feed i need fpr qtextended 4.4.1?
Oct 20 18:37:10 <Sylar91> there are not feeds yes aviable...
Oct 20 18:37:14 <Dave> right
Oct 20 18:37:29 <Sylar91> how is it possible to choose the architecture for opkg?
Oct 20 18:37:51 <Sylar91> news about om 2008.10?
Oct 20 18:38:11 <noaXess> Sylar91: ok, what about this? http://www.qtopia.net/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=885&forum=16
Oct 20 18:38:14 <noaXess> last entry
Oct 20 18:38:16 <Sylar91> we are near the end of the month and no news about 2008.10???
Oct 20 18:38:24 <noaXess> from qtext 4.3.3
Oct 20 18:38:26 <Sylar91> now I look... thx
Oct 20 18:39:11 <Sylar91> noaXess: this isn't my problem but.. thanks anyway...
Oct 20 18:39:34 <Sylar91> the rasterman's new image of illume is really great! brillian!
Oct 20 18:39:38 <Sylar91> *brilliant
Oct 20 18:42:34 <Dave> Yes
Oct 20 18:43:22 <Sylar91> but I can't installa anything...
Oct 20 18:43:39 <Dave> :D
Oct 20 18:43:58 <Sylar91> *install
Oct 20 18:46:16 <Sylar91> bye
Oct 20 18:47:02 <techiem2-r> hrm...
Oct 20 18:47:23 <techiem2-r> anyone know where to get the links-x11 package now that angstrom-distribution has removed it?
Oct 20 18:49:47 <SpeedEvil> New display device we need for OM.
Oct 20 18:49:49 <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKK933KK6Gg&feature=related
Oct 20 18:56:35 <dolf1074> I want a little smaller devcie :p
Oct 20 18:56:48 <DocsSrutinizer2> more fps
Oct 20 18:57:40 <dolf1074> and more colors
Oct 20 18:57:48 <DocsSrutinizer2> stupid as MythBusters
Oct 20 19:01:02 <leinir> Stupid, and entertaining :)
Oct 20 19:02:55 <Dave> dolf.
Oct 20 19:03:15 <dolf1074> yeah
Oct 20 19:05:19 <Mononoke> heh I just wonder... how it would look like if I set up instead of ringing festival to say who's calling and so
Oct 20 19:05:32 <Mononoke> is there port of festival on openmoko ?
Oct 20 19:05:42 <dos1> Mononoke: use espeak or flite
Oct 20 19:05:50 <dos1> it works, i've tested it ;)
Oct 20 19:06:03 <dos1> (you can use speech-dispatcher)
Oct 20 19:06:08 <dos1> and fso ;D
Oct 20 19:07:00 <Mononoke> and can I make phonecall with it ? :)
Oct 20 19:07:08 <Mononoke> instead of me openmoko speaking ^.^
Oct 20 19:07:31 <dos1> i don't know, ask same openmoko guy ;D
Oct 20 19:08:02 <dos1> but i know, that reading text is working ;)
Oct 20 19:11:03 <DocsSrutinizer2> Mononoke: sure you can route AD-out to gsm-modem input
Oct 20 19:11:19 <Kagee> I can flash my Freerunner with the latest .bin and .jffs2 from here, correct? -> http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/images/
Oct 20 19:25:40 <gmaxwell> I want the biconic antenna from this video.
Oct 20 19:27:32 <gmaxwell> oops, wrong channel
Oct 20 19:38:58 <fredrin> any great input ideas for the Neo? I would love to beable to drive a car, write sms and drink at the same time, hehehe
Oct 20 19:39:22 <techiem2-r> develop a psychic interface?
Oct 20 19:41:39 <fredrin> but i could with my old nokia phone (that i reasonly lost and are forced to use my Neo as the daily phone now)
Oct 20 19:41:39 <nyu> there's one already
Oct 20 19:41:45 <nyu> espdiff
Oct 20 19:41:51 <nyu> techiem2-r: ^
Oct 20 19:42:03 <fredrin> lol
Oct 20 19:42:07 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 20 19:42:13 <nyu> its manpage is a must-read
Oct 20 19:42:29 <fredrin> nyu: link?
Oct 20 19:42:29 <nyu>        --recurse
Oct 20 19:42:29 <nyu>               Recurses neural pathways throughout all parts of the  brain,  in
Oct 20 19:42:29 <nyu>               some  cases  determining  code changes you might make far off in
Oct 20 19:42:29 <nyu>               the future. You may feel a gentle tickling sensation when  using
Oct 20 19:42:29 <nyu>               this option.
Oct 20 19:42:48 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 20 19:43:08 <nyu> fredrin: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=espdiff
Oct 20 19:54:52 <esk> has anyone else had I/O errors during heavy read/write on microSD with 2008.[89] ?
Oct 20 19:55:27 <techiem2-r> not that I've noticed...
Oct 20 19:55:34 <techiem2-r> but haven't done many
Oct 20 19:58:48 <geaaru> hi, i'm try to insert om_gta2 arch on my ipkg feed of my neo1973 
Oct 20 19:59:10 <geaaru> but seems that om_gta2 is doesn't handle
Oct 20 19:59:38 <geaaru> is it possible configure om_gta2 snapshot on neo1973 environment
Oct 20 19:59:39 <geaaru> ?
Oct 20 19:59:42 <esthar> I just installed FDOM and I tried to load Duke3D and the screen is lit up but black, and nothing is responding.
Oct 20 20:00:18 <esthar> Is there any better way to handle such situations besides force rebooting?
Oct 20 20:00:26 <esthar> tthe aux button was glowing red, too.
Oct 20 20:04:30 <geaaru> it seems that repository directory is on om-gta02 but i think that ipkg update doesn't see file snapshot-om-gta02-feed.conf
Oct 20 20:05:00 <geaaru> because manage "om" as arch not "om-gta02" 
Oct 20 20:05:05 <geaaru> is it correct?
Oct 20 20:05:10 <geaaru> how can i resolve it?
Oct 20 20:29:17 <Kensan> Has anybody checked out the imovio ikit?
Oct 20 20:29:34 <mattl> ino.
Oct 20 20:29:46 <Kensan> seems to be running Linux but has some proprietary stack on top...
Oct 20 20:29:55 <Kensan> http://imovio.com/
Oct 20 20:30:14 <Kensan> oh... kernel 2.4.19
Oct 20 20:30:25 <mattl> wow. nothing but a couple logos.
Oct 20 20:30:32 <Kensan> well choose one ;)
Oct 20 20:31:21 <mattl> meh. nowhere to buy one.
Oct 20 20:31:55 <Kensan> I think they just "released" as in "press-released"
Oct 20 20:32:34 <Kensan> wow that's one crappy flash mockup...
Oct 20 20:34:16 <Kensan> qvga screen, looks pretty useless like that. Maybe it would still be a device that openmoko could be ported to at some point in the future.
Oct 20 20:35:25 <mattl> 2.4 kernel.
Oct 20 20:35:40 <Kensan> yeah
Oct 20 20:35:42 <Kensan> 2.4.19
Oct 20 20:51:30 <timur> i disabled power management with txpower fixed, but then it got reenabled a while later. what else on 2008.9 sets power management?
Oct 20 20:57:03 <timur> also, running iwconfig eth0 txpower off and then iwconfig eth0 txpower fixed shows dbm to be set to 255
Oct 20 20:57:07 <timur> i'm pretty sure that's wrong
Oct 20 20:57:11 <timur> any ideas anyone?
Oct 20 20:57:36 <Kensan> mwester_: ping
Oct 20 20:57:54 <Kensan> mwester_: check out laforges latest patches
Oct 20 21:04:47 <timur> also, any significance to the red light being on over the lock button? (aux button)
Oct 20 21:05:12 <Kensan> timur: that usualy means there's an error I think.
Oct 20 21:05:33 <timur> ah, dmesg was remarkably silent in that case
Oct 20 21:05:42 <Kensan> logread anything?
Oct 20 21:05:55 <timur> i ended up rebooting, give me a second
Oct 20 21:07:15 <timur> err, seem to be outta luck. i guess it flushes the logs on reboot
Oct 20 21:07:56 <timur> hmm ok, the light is back on
Oct 20 21:07:56 <Kensan> yeah, the logs are kept in the ringbuffer which you read with logread. on reboot the ringbuffer gets cleared obviously (as anything else in memory)
Oct 20 21:08:11 <timur> but the logs just have ATT commands
Oct 20 21:08:24 <Kensan> What do you mean?
Oct 20 21:08:50 <timur> I mean AT
Oct 20 21:09:06 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:30 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  T : "AT+CBC" 
Oct 20 21:09:06 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:30 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  Ficgta01PhoneBook::Ficgta01PhoneBook 
Oct 20 21:09:06 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  F : "+CBC: 0,0" 
Oct 20 21:09:06 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  F : "OK" 
Oct 20 21:09:06 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  T : "AT%CWUP=1" 
Oct 20 21:09:07 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  F : "OK" 
Oct 20 21:09:09 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  T : "AT+CFUN=0" 
Oct 20 21:09:11 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  F : "OK" 
Oct 20 21:09:13 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  T : "AT%CSQ=1" 
Oct 20 21:09:15 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  N : "%CSQ: 1 " 
Oct 20 21:09:17 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  F : "OK" 
Oct 20 21:09:19 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  T : "AT@ST="-26"" 
Oct 20 21:09:23 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  F : "OK" 
Oct 20 21:09:25 <timur> Oct 20 17:06:32 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  T : "AT%N0187" 
Oct 20 21:09:27 <timur> stuff like that
Oct 20 21:09:27 <Kensan> ehm
Oct 20 21:09:29 <timur> i don't see any errors
Oct 20 21:09:54 <Kensan> well pipe the whole log to your workstation and take a closer look at it...
Oct 20 21:09:58 <timur> ah ok, here's what it's dumping now: Oct 20 17:08:33 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  T : "AT+CIMI" 
Oct 20 21:09:58 <timur> Oct 20 17:08:33 om-gta02 user.notice root: AtChat :  F : "+CME ERROR: 13" 
Oct 20 21:10:02 <timur> yep, will do
Oct 20 21:10:14 <timur> sorry for the spam in the channel, although no one's talking anyway :P
Oct 20 21:10:23 <Kensan> logread -f | netcat foo port
Oct 20 21:10:32 <Kensan> eh
Oct 20 21:10:33 <Kensan> nc
Oct 20 21:10:40 <Kensan> instead of netcat
Oct 20 21:10:42 <Kensan> heh
Oct 20 21:11:09 <Kensan> everybody is compiling kernels with harald's latest nand-patches ;)
Oct 20 21:11:16 <timur> ah, yea, that would work. i just dumped it to a file for now
Oct 20 21:11:18 <timur> haha nice
Oct 20 21:13:05 <timur> is there a way to turn off GPRS?
Oct 20 21:26:52 <ColdFyre> is the neo not charging with certain usb hardware or software related?
Oct 20 21:34:26 <dolf1074> what's special about harald's patches?
Oct 20 21:34:32 <dolf1074> or what do they do?
Oct 20 21:59:33 <lindi-> ColdFyre: is there a bug report about it?
Oct 20 22:03:11 <timur> hmm, is this a known issue: after some scans/associations/scans, etc the card does not get any scan results?
Oct 20 22:03:25 <timur> with "failed to read scan data"
Oct 20 22:03:35 <timur> anyone know of a way to fix it, aside from rebooting
Oct 20 22:03:36 <timur> ?
Oct 20 22:05:27 <ColdFyre> there is a bug report, yes
Oct 20 22:05:38 <lindi-> ColdFyre: do you remember the number?
Oct 20 22:05:50 <ColdFyre> and people say software and others say hardware
Oct 20 22:05:55 <ColdFyre> no, i don't
Oct 20 22:05:58 <ColdFyre> not off hand
Oct 20 22:06:00 <timur> iwconfig also apparently reports that the card can transmit at 65 Mb/s, which would be pretty sweet, but seems bogus
Oct 20 22:06:22 <ColdFyre> let me try to find it..
Oct 20 22:09:39 <ColdFyre> can't find it, but i am certain a bug exists
Oct 20 22:10:02 <lindi-> ColdFyre: #1158
Oct 20 22:10:07 <lindi-> no no
Oct 20 22:10:11 <lindi-> different bug
Oct 20 22:10:30 <lindi-> ColdFyre: next time you find interesting bug you should subscribe to it
Oct 20 22:19:44 <Soulnoob> Is there an equivalent application to lock the touchscreen trough pressing the aux. button in FSO/SHR as there was in (iirc) Om2008.8?
Oct 20 22:20:49 <Soulnoob> er... what I mean, is there something out there that would work for me?
Oct 20 22:22:11 <Kensan> raster: ping
Oct 20 22:23:41 <raster> Kensan:  pong
Oct 20 22:23:56 <Tig|> can't fault service like that
Oct 20 22:23:59 <Tig|> :)
Oct 20 22:24:23 <Kensan> raster: have you seen Harald's flash patches?
Oct 20 22:25:41 <mwester> re
Oct 20 22:25:50 <raster> Kensan:  i have heard something of a 50% speedup from current pain
Oct 20 22:26:03 <raster> but as such we should still be able to double the IO speed
Oct 20 22:26:10 <raster> ie was 2m/sec
Oct 20 22:26:15 <raster> patches go to 3m/sec
Oct 20 22:26:18 * mwester yawns
Oct 20 22:26:25 <raster> in theory we should be able to to 6m/sec
Oct 20 22:26:40 <mattl> flashing the phone?
Oct 20 22:26:40 * raster slaps mwester witha  trout to wake him up
Oct 20 22:27:21 * mwester is just SOOOOOO excited that we can now read/write NAND so much faster; it means that the GTA02 will spend less time between WSoD
Oct 20 22:27:27 <Kensan> raster: I applied the patches and could not observe any speed gain on bootup ...
Oct 20 22:27:40 <Kensan> mwester: heh
Oct 20 22:28:08 <raster> Kensan:  interesting
Oct 20 22:28:14 <mwester> Harald volunteered to work on the WSoD -- I'll just bet that nobody at Om took him up on his offer and sent him a unit that exhibits the problem.
Oct 20 22:28:38 <raster> hehehe
Oct 20 22:28:44 <raster> sucky tho it is
Oct 20 22:28:47 <Kensan> raster: and I still haven't fixed bootchart. Quite frankly I don't see why it's not working but well
Oct 20 22:28:49 <raster> i never see a wsod on my 2 fr's
Oct 20 22:28:53 <raster> i think thats the problem
Oct 20 22:29:01 <raster> that its "some units" see it
Oct 20 22:29:03 <mwester> So instead, he's working on I/O speed.  Good stuff, and all, but it won't matter until somebody (and it seems it won't be Om) gets the Glamo working in resume.
Oct 20 22:29:14 <raster> i thought the suspect is iffy glamo wiring
Oct 20 22:29:15 <mwester> Yeah, mine doesnt' do it either.
Oct 20 22:29:22 <raster> and the slightest glitch on the signal line resets the glamo
Oct 20 22:29:25 <raster> and thats the problem
Oct 20 22:29:25 <mwester> Otherwise I'd be figuring out how to send mine to Harald.
Oct 20 22:29:35 <raster> some units get enough static on the line to glitch
Oct 20 22:29:37 <raster> others dont
Oct 20 22:29:50 <Wonka> flash patches? does that mean newer uboot?
Oct 20 22:29:54 * Tig| slaps mattl with a hazmat suit :)
Oct 20 22:30:07 <raster> mwester: i keep saying it. imho glamo was... a bad way to go
Oct 20 22:30:16 <raster> too much complexity into a first-gen device
Oct 20 22:30:20 <Wonka> raster: it's gone in GTA03...
Oct 20 22:30:39 <mattl> Tig|: ow
Oct 20 22:30:45 <raster> i might have been tempted to add some extra flash chips for the same price (so go up to 512 or 1g flash)
Oct 20 22:30:48 <mwester> Wonka -- do you think that matters, if the glamo can't be made to work in the GTA02?
Oct 20 22:30:50 <raster> and nix the micrsd slot
Oct 20 22:30:55 <Kensan> man, GTA03 is still at least a year away so just let it be...
Oct 20 22:30:56 <raster> and use that sd line for wifi
Oct 20 22:31:06 <raster> that'd have solved the "out of sdio lines"
Oct 20 22:31:23 <raster> Wonka:  i know. parelty because that was my advice
Oct 20 22:31:46 <raster> *IF* glamo didnt have some of its silly limits
Oct 20 22:31:48 * mwester prefers an external SD slot, and the option to use an SD card or Wifi
Oct 20 22:31:53 <Wonka> mwester: mh... maybe not. didn't have a WSOD yet.
Oct 20 22:32:07 <raster> (3d is 511x511 - not even vga),, and the 2d engine actually did all the operations needed to accelerate x fully
Oct 20 22:32:15 <Wonka> i'd like an external SDIO slot in addition to the internal 8GB microSDHC...
Oct 20 22:32:16 <Kensan> mwester: what's the way to trigger wsod?
Oct 20 22:32:17 <raster> THEN it'd be possibly worht the trouble
Oct 20 22:32:19 <raster> the proiblem is
Oct 20 22:32:28 <raster> u can implement a BIT more acceleration
Oct 20 22:32:38 <raster> and then hit a big wall in the last 100m of the race
Oct 20 22:32:48 <raster> at which point u are droping back to software anyway
Oct 20 22:32:56 <raster> and all gains made just got lost
Oct 20 22:33:03 <mwester> Kensan: with the last round of Harald's patches, apparently some units now exhibit the WSoD on unblanking, not just on resume.
Oct 20 22:33:28 <raster> mwester: thats why i might have been tempted to drop the internal sd slot in favor of more onboard flash
Oct 20 22:33:29 <Kensan> hm. ok then my device is not affected... otherwise I could have passed it on :(
Oct 20 22:33:34 <mwester> But historically, just attempting to resume would result in a partially resumed device -- white screen, no response, but you can ssh into it.
Oct 20 22:33:35 <raster> as in practice they serve about the same purpose
Oct 20 22:34:03 <raster> but without glamo we'd have a significantly simpelr system
Oct 20 22:34:11 <raster> and it'd be much more reliable or likely to work
Oct 20 22:34:24 <raster> and i think it'd be able to run at 500mhz
Oct 20 22:34:26 <raster> instead of 400
Oct 20 22:34:30 <Tig|> raster: in other words because of the hardware limitations the hardware acceleration can not exceed the performance or the software acceleration on it is own making further hardware driver optimisations pointless ? 
Oct 20 22:34:32 <mwester> 20% overall...
Oct 20 22:34:40 <Kensan> mwester: I have another funny issue. If I plug my FR in while the display is lit, my notebook says there was an overcurrent change on ?:? usb port. If backlight is off, it's fine.
Oct 20 22:34:59 <mwester> Linux on the notebook?
Oct 20 22:35:03 <Kensan> mwester: yes
Oct 20 22:35:07 <raster> Tig|: the simple version. yes
Oct 20 22:35:08 <Kensan> oh
Oct 20 22:35:10 <Kensan> wait
Oct 20 22:35:15 <Kensan> Ubuntu Hardy
Oct 20 22:35:35 <mwester> Is that perhaps one of those ports that cannot really supply a full 500ma (i.e. the 500ma is shared between ports or capped at a lower limit)?
Oct 20 22:35:48 <raster> Tig|:  basically in graphics. if u ever have to resort to a software fallback during your rendering pipeline, almost always it is the case where you may as wellnever have used the hardware at all for anything and done it all in software
Oct 20 22:35:53 <raster> as the cost of going to and from video ram and back
Oct 20 22:36:05 <raster> and the break in pipeline is big enough to throw away all gains made
Oct 20 22:36:17 <Kensan> mwester: hm... might be that it's an issue on the notebook side ineed.
Oct 20 22:36:19 <Kensan> d
Oct 20 22:36:20 <raster> of course this assumes thast the non-hw op is "significantly" used
Oct 20 22:36:31 <raster> ie its more than 3 pixels in the corner of your screen every second
Oct 20 22:36:42 <raster> also it assumes the software code is relatively well written and optimised
Oct 20 22:36:47 <mmontour> Kensan: Was your FR connected to the wall charger before you connected it to the notebook? In the past (months ago) I have seen it keep the 1000mA current limit even after the wall charger was unplugged.
Oct 20 22:37:08 <mwester> Kensan:  If it's not capped, and the FR is really drawing more than 500 ma, then there is another (serious) problem as Andy has been very careful to always honor the current limits.
Oct 20 22:37:24 <Tig|> raster: so we can write off any hw accel from the glamo chip as although we can use it,  it is faster not to ?
Oct 20 22:37:27 <mwester> That should probably be mentioned on the ML if the port is not capped.
Oct 20 22:37:29 <Kensan> mmontour: well I have pluged it into the wall at times but this happens in any case: fresh boot etc
Oct 20 22:38:09 <mwester> mmontour:  so in other words the FR is not detecting or not responding correctly to the *disconnect* of the high-current charger?
Oct 20 22:38:09 <raster> Tig|: early on once i read all the glamo docs i made the following call, and i stick by it to this day:
Oct 20 22:38:12 <SpeedEvil> How it should always - in principle - work is that FR should never draw more than 100mA from the port unless it's determined to either be a charger, or the host has authenticated us to use more.
Oct 20 22:38:27 <mmontour> Kensan: if you can, ssh in over wifi and see what the PMU status is in /sys/whatever before and after you plug it into the laptop
Oct 20 22:38:29 <raster> "the glamo will sink a lot of effort for us to just stand still. we're running on the spot"
Oct 20 22:38:48 <raster> i.e. - any gains the glamo makes in porformance in some ways, are lost in others
Oct 20 22:38:54 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  is a specific current negotiated, or is it assumed that if a host is active that the FR can draw 500ma?
Oct 20 22:39:04 <SpeedEvil> mwester: specific current
Oct 20 22:39:05 <raster> and we've spent a mountain of effort on drivers (kernel and x) just to "go nowhere"
Oct 20 22:39:16 <SpeedEvil> mwester: basically, the FR says 'you can configure me as A,B,C'
Oct 20 22:39:19 <raster> if the gta02 had no glamo and just software frameubffer ala gta01
Oct 20 22:39:40 <Kensan> argh
Oct 20 22:39:40 <raster> my call is that it'd be "just as fast - if not faster in most things" than with a glamo
Oct 20 22:39:44 <SpeedEvil> mwester: where A might be 200mA, with a list of available functionality, and C might be 500mA, with a fuller list of functionality.
Oct 20 22:39:46 <raster> glamo right now mostly buys just 1 good thing
Oct 20 22:39:52 <raster> video + scaling
Oct 20 22:39:58 <raster> ie yuv->rgb + scale
Oct 20 22:39:59 <Kensan> why can't bootchart write to /etc *grrrr*
Oct 20 22:40:04 <Tig|> raster:  which we are not using
Oct 20 22:40:05 <SpeedEvil> mwester: the host then picks A,B,or C, and the FR should set itself up this way.
Oct 20 22:40:13 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  Thanks - I didn't know that.  Then it sounds like Kensan has observed a definite bug.
Oct 20 22:40:26 <raster> the mpeg4 decode is dubiously useful imoh as we have no standard accel api in x for feeding encoded streams to hardware
Oct 20 22:40:28 <Kensan> mwester: I am about to test again
Oct 20 22:40:29 <raster> also it wont decode audio
Oct 20 22:40:31 <raster> just video
Oct 20 22:40:31 <mmontour> mwester: that's what I saw - it kept the 1000mA setting (seen in /sys) after the wall charger was unplugged. I haven't tried it lately.
Oct 20 22:40:36 <SpeedEvil> mwester: in practice - at the moment vanishingly few hosts will object if they are otherwise unloaded, and you attach a 500mA host.
Oct 20 22:40:41 <raster> so u need to split the stream and feed off audio to cpu to do separately
Oct 20 22:40:50 <raster> so u/'re also goign to have to battle sync problems
Oct 20 22:41:04 <Kensan> right
Oct 20 22:41:07 <raster> Tig|:  btw - you ARE using the yuv->rgb+scale
Oct 20 22:41:09 <SpeedEvil> raster: I thought it did audio, but it wasn't hooked up - or is that what you meant?
Oct 20 22:41:09 <Kensan> so the screen is flickering
Oct 20 22:41:14 <raster> xv *IS* accelerated
Oct 20 22:41:24 <raster> SpeedEvil:  thats what i mean
Oct 20 22:41:24 <Tig|> raster:  mind you making a phone call is a challenge atm 
Oct 20 22:41:28 <Kensan> I get hub 4-0:1.0: over-current change on port 1
Oct 20 22:41:28 <raster> :)
Oct 20 22:41:37 <raster> Tig|:  ooh. thats another matter entirely
Oct 20 22:41:41 <raster> :)
Oct 20 22:41:43 <raster> but
Oct 20 22:41:48 <raster> if it were me
Oct 20 22:42:06 <Tig|> I think mpeg4 video playback on the device should be well down the wish list
Oct 20 22:42:09 <raster> i would have early on said "ok - fuck the glamo - take it out. drop the sd slot, add an extra 256m of flash"
Oct 20 22:42:13 <raster> and save trouble
Oct 20 22:42:21 <raster> sure - video decode now is all software on cpu
Oct 20 22:42:22 <raster> too bad
Oct 20 22:42:30 <raster> you have a CHANCe at getting a phone thats stable
Oct 20 22:42:34 <Tig|> raster: sd slot is neede
Oct 20 22:42:36 <Kensan> if display is black (backlight is off) I get no such errors and no flickering
Oct 20 22:42:37 <Tig|> needed
Oct 20 22:42:38 <raster> as u have 1 "very complex chip" removed
Oct 20 22:42:40 <Wonka> my debian is bigger than 512MB atm, and i'd still like to install more stuff
Oct 20 22:42:46 <raster> Tig|: not needed at all
Oct 20 22:42:54 <raster> Tig|:  first it's under the battery
Oct 20 22:42:58 <raster> u have to remove it to get to it
Oct 20 22:43:06 <raster> so it is effectively as good as built-in flash
Oct 20 22:43:19 <raster> itouch/iphone survives fine withotu it
Oct 20 22:43:20 <mwester> Hang a USB->SD converter off the usb bus internally, and you'd have the SD slot as well.
Oct 20 22:43:27 <raster> its a FIRST product for om
Oct 20 22:43:37 <raster> they can do compromises on the first one
Oct 20 22:43:46 <SpeedEvil> raster: Dropping the SD slot means you can't do music, maps, ...
Oct 20 22:43:48 <Tig|> this is not the first though
Oct 20 22:43:50 <SpeedEvil> movies.
Oct 20 22:43:54 <Tig|> this is the second
Oct 20 22:43:58 <raster> SpeedEvil: thus the extra 256m
Oct 20 22:43:58 <mwester> Kensan:  sounds like a definite bug to me.
Oct 20 22:44:04 <raster> u can do small video clips
Oct 20 22:44:12 <SpeedEvil> raster: not at this price point
Oct 20 22:44:15 <Tig|> you need expandability
Oct 20 22:44:16 <raster> but as such - without glamo u'll be burning 100% cpu to play them
Oct 20 22:44:20 <SpeedEvil> raster: if it was $100 - that might fly.
Oct 20 22:44:24 <raster> so at best u'll get 3-4hrs worth of video
Oct 20 22:44:26 <zash> a real SD slot would be more awesome
Oct 20 22:44:33 <raster> and audio - well u'd just have to live with it
Oct 20 22:44:38 <zash> not µSD
Oct 20 22:44:39 <raster> its a PHONE
Oct 20 22:44:48 <raster> it cant fulfil its primary function
Oct 20 22:44:56 <SpeedEvil> raster: It's not a phone.
Oct 20 22:44:56 <raster> and you are complaining about not being able to do music and video
Oct 20 22:45:02 <Kensan> mwester: hm any hints on how I could debug?
Oct 20 22:45:05 * mwester thought it was a phone.
Oct 20 22:45:06 <SpeedEvil> raster: and it can never be a phone at $300.
Oct 20 22:45:14 <Kensan> log does not say anything usefull...
Oct 20 22:45:21 <SpeedEvil> raster: it has to be more than a phone at $300, or you will sell 3.
Oct 20 22:45:26 <raster> SpeedEvil:  u know how much a n iphone 3g costs?
Oct 20 22:45:30 <raster> $750 or so
Oct 20 22:45:37 <mwester> Kensan:  turning on debug for the PMU driver would be a start.
Oct 20 22:45:37 <SpeedEvil> raster: And the users don't care.
Oct 20 22:45:39 <raster> u know how much an n95 costs? about $1000
Oct 20 22:45:50 <raster> i can start listing phones
Oct 20 22:45:51 <ljp> free for me
Oct 20 22:45:53 <raster> thats the cost
Oct 20 22:45:56 <SpeedEvil> raster: you're going against subsidised devices in most markets. 
Oct 20 22:46:00 <raster> if no one subsidised them for u
Oct 20 22:46:04 <SpeedEvil> raster: you can't avoid that fact.
Oct 20 22:46:05 <Kensan> *grrrr*
Oct 20 22:46:06 <mwester> ljp:  :)
Oct 20 22:46:07 <raster> so
Oct 20 22:46:12 <raster> then its not apples vs apples
Oct 20 22:46:22 <SpeedEvil> raster: who said the marketplace was fair?
Oct 20 22:46:42 <raster> the end result is a phone that cant suspend/resume and thus stay operational long enough to be a phone
Oct 20 22:46:58 <Tig|> raster: I can buy a contract free phone for £20 here,  my freerunner really needs to offer something better for the best part of £300 
Oct 20 22:47:00 <raster> i think making it work and be a base platform to work on for now
Oct 20 22:47:01 <mattl> has anyone seen 'tcflush: bad file descriptor' when doing GPRS?
Oct 20 22:47:05 <raster> until gta03/04/05 comes out
Oct 20 22:47:09 * mwester thinks the entire space can be wrapped up, and Om become toast, if Nokia comes out with an N810 with a GSM on it.
Oct 20 22:47:11 <Kensan> raster: correctin: I can't even plug it in without it trying to fry itself.
Oct 20 22:47:16 <raster> you seem to think that gta02 is the end of all devices
Oct 20 22:47:20 <raster> and thus it must be perfect
Oct 20 22:47:31 <Tig|> raster I am not sure that the hardware is the problem
Oct 20 22:47:43 <raster> Tig|:  the hardware exacerbates the problem
Oct 20 22:47:49 <mattl> Tig|: what do you want?
Oct 20 22:47:50 <SpeedEvil> The manageware is.
Oct 20 22:47:54 * ljp thinks gta02 is the end of all devices
Oct 20 22:47:56 <mattl> What's actually wrong with the hardware?
Oct 20 22:48:03 <raster> it creates mountains of effort sunk into something that would have been better off just not there to start with
Oct 20 22:48:12 <raster> and thus saving the effort completely
Oct 20 22:48:18 <SpeedEvil> mattbnz: essentially no showstoppers as I understand it - other than the time-sink of raster.
Oct 20 22:48:23 <SpeedEvil> s/raster/glamo/
Oct 20 22:48:24 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: mattbnz: essentially no showstoppers as I understand it - other than the time-sink of glamo.
Oct 20 22:48:33 <raster> so that effort to just get it to work even aty the most basic levels reliably could be put into workign on gsm power/stability issues
Oct 20 22:48:49 <raster> and on better powermanagement in the kernel for clock-steppign and zero-clock
Oct 20 22:48:50 <mattl> glamo?
Oct 20 22:48:52 <raster> etc.
Oct 20 22:48:56 <Kensan> mwester: the usb-hub is uncapped if it shows MaxPower 0mA right?
Oct 20 22:49:01 <Kensan> (lsusb -v)
Oct 20 22:49:02 <SpeedEvil> mattbnz: the accellerator chip that ended up not accellerating.
Oct 20 22:49:05 <SpeedEvil> mattl:
Oct 20 22:49:17 <mattl> 3d stuff?
Oct 20 22:49:18 <mwester> Kensan:  :( Dunno, never looked into the host side of things.
Oct 20 22:49:23 <raster> SpeedEvil: wsod? not a showstopper?
Oct 20 22:49:44 <raster> not to mention ui performance
Oct 20 22:49:50 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  Is the WSoD not a show-stopper then?
Oct 20 22:49:55 <SpeedEvil> raster: Ok, I forgot about WSOD, it doesn't affect me.
Oct 20 22:49:59 <mwester> Ah
Oct 20 22:50:08 <raster> not to mention the myriad of smaller issues u never saw before gta02 was out
Oct 20 22:50:11 <Kensan> heh
Oct 20 22:50:27 <raster> of having to just get things like uboot to suport glamo to be able to display a splash and a menu and load images off sd etc.
Oct 20 22:50:36 <raster> and the effort of supporting sdio via glamo in kernel
Oct 20 22:50:46 <Kensan> Hm... might it have saved time if they had stayed with the Neo1973?
Oct 20 22:50:48 <raster> and the mix and match of kenrl + userspace (x) control of glamo...
Oct 20 22:50:55 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: pretty much
Oct 20 22:51:06 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: GTA02 - glamo would be a lot simpler
Oct 20 22:51:08 <raster> Kensan: well - i was just saying they should have made fwwe changes
Oct 20 22:51:14 <raster> eg done the same video setup as gta01
Oct 20 22:51:20 <SpeedEvil> http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news/fda_approves_napalm_breast
Oct 20 22:51:22 <SpeedEvil> oops
Oct 20 22:51:24 <raster> no glamo
Oct 20 22:51:26 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: well minus Wlan which seems to attract quite a few people
Oct 20 22:51:26 <raster> problem is wifi
Oct 20 22:51:30 <raster> everyone demanded wifi
Oct 20 22:51:34 <raster> but nowhere to hook it up
Oct 20 22:51:36 <Kensan> yeah
Oct 20 22:51:41 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: I have a prototype hardware add-on for GTA01 to add wifi
Oct 20 22:51:41 <raster> so glamo provided an extra sdio line
Oct 20 22:51:46 <raster> for the sd card
Oct 20 22:51:54 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: it seemed to work OK in very limited tests.
Oct 20 22:52:02 <mwester> You actually got it working?
Oct 20 22:52:04 <Kensan> raster: glamo... seems like pandora's box in retrospect.
Oct 20 22:52:06 <raster> since there is no sane multiplexer solution for this
Oct 20 22:52:11 <raster> u either drop wifi
Oct 20 22:52:12 <Tig|> mind you OM had been touting GTA02 as a consumer device
Oct 20 22:52:14 <raster> or lose tyhe sd slot
Oct 20 22:52:17 <raster> pick your pain
Oct 20 22:52:28 <SpeedEvil> mwester: yes - remove GPS antenna, place wifi in place, put USB hub connected to USB external port.
Oct 20 22:52:28 <raster> Kensan:  yes. thats why i said. and still say
Oct 20 22:52:37 <raster> "a lot of effort runing on the spot, to stand still"
Oct 20 22:52:45 <SpeedEvil> raster: or accept wifi as a power-hog, and go USB.
Oct 20 22:52:49 <raster> ie u didnt get any amazing graphcis performance abilities
Oct 20 22:53:05 <raster> SpeedEvil: thats an option .. i think
Oct 20 22:53:09 <raster> tho i need to check
Oct 20 22:53:09 <Kensan> raster: plus the glame was big with the community as THE 3d chip
Oct 20 22:53:16 <Kensan> so the disappointment got much bigger
Oct 20 22:53:24 <raster> i dont know if there were usb wifi options for that level of embedded
Oct 20 22:53:39 <SpeedEvil> raster: I did a very stupid thing, and it worked.
Oct 20 22:53:44 <raster> Kensan:  yup. i was all keen on it
Oct 20 22:53:47 <raster> like everyone else
Oct 20 22:53:55 <raster> before i read the actual programming docs
Oct 20 22:53:56 <SpeedEvil> raster: basically involving a slightly cut-down USB dongle, and it worked. 
Oct 20 22:54:01 <Kensan> fscking bootchart
Oct 20 22:54:01 <raster> and al lthe nasty details
Oct 20 22:54:02 <SpeedEvil> raster: and a teeny GPS antenna.
Oct 20 22:54:02 <mattl> my phone seems very close to having calls/sms/gps and gprs.
Oct 20 22:54:13 <mattl> that seems pretty good.
Oct 20 22:54:25 <raster> anyway its all water under the bridge now
Oct 20 22:54:29 <Tig|> mattl: FSO image?
Oct 20 22:54:32 <mattl> for a 400mhz thing running free software.
Oct 20 22:54:34 <SpeedEvil> raster: that's not water.
Oct 20 22:54:35 <mattl> Tig|: FDOM.
Oct 20 22:54:37 <raster> so now there is still a mamoth effort to get gta02 to be a reliable phone
Oct 20 22:54:47 <Kensan> mattl: close does not cut it. It needs to be rock solid or it will stay in it's niche market and be a devel device forever
Oct 20 22:54:48 <raster> gta03 dropped glamo - good.
Oct 20 22:54:56 <raster> thats one box of hurt not coming along
Oct 20 22:55:46 <mattl> Kensan: sure, but it seems like software, not hardware.
Oct 20 22:56:49 * SpeedEvil goes back to working on his close-source 'phone'.
Oct 20 22:56:52 <Kensan> mwester: would you happen to know what during the move to git by oe also changed? bootchart seemed to work fine before now it can't write to /etc/ for some misterous reason.
Oct 20 22:57:21 <mwester> Nothing should have changed to any recipes or the results of a build before or after.
Oct 20 22:57:21 <Kensan> mattl: well as Werners mail to the ML shows, if they wanted to do this earlier (tackle gsm issues) they could have...
Oct 20 22:57:41 <mwester> Yeah, I was wondering about that....
Oct 20 22:57:51 <Kensan> mwester: what was the abi/eabi change? That should have no effect I assume.
Oct 20 22:58:02 <mwester> That should have been undone
Oct 20 22:58:08 <Kensan> This is so frustrating when going in circles.
Oct 20 22:58:16 <mwester> if it was done in the central repo at all.
Oct 20 22:58:20 <Kensan> mwester: oh really?
Oct 20 22:58:38 <Kensan> mwester: I saw some commit messages about that. Maybe I need to update
Oct 20 22:58:56 <mwester> There were some other changes about hashes in libs, but that should also have no effect.
Oct 20 22:59:24 <mwester> I suspect the issue is something else -- do you get a permission denied, or what?
Oct 20 23:00:26 <Kensan> mwester: the binary is passed as init= parameter and there's no such thing in the logs that I can see. If I call the binary after the device has bootet everything is fine.
Oct 20 23:00:44 <mwester> Is the binary dynamically linked?
Oct 20 23:01:02 <Kensan> mwester: hm. I don't think so.
Oct 20 23:01:22 <Kensan> that would make no sense.
Oct 20 23:01:32 <mwester> It would be undesirable.
Oct 20 23:02:02 <mwester> Is /etc writale at boot, or is it mounted ro, and switched to rw during the boot process?
Oct 20 23:02:45 <Kensan> it is mounted ro but the  switch should happen before init is called
Oct 20 23:02:51 <Kensan> the remount
Oct 20 23:03:59 <mwester> HOw?
Oct 20 23:04:56 <timur> brrrr i hate the mac os x channel... ok, sorry had to be said...
Oct 20 23:05:53 <mattl> haha
Oct 20 23:06:00 <mattl> timur: why exactly?
Oct 20 23:06:19 <Kensan> mwester: hold that thought
Oct 20 23:06:22 <Kensan> :)
Oct 20 23:06:59 <timur> mattl, because it's filled with mac fanatics who refuse to acknowledge any flaws in their religiously worshiped OS :)
Oct 20 23:07:16 <timur> yet, they will go ahead and point out flaws in everything else
Oct 20 23:07:23 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 20 23:07:30 <john> Sounds kinda like Linux fanatics (-;
Oct 20 23:07:49 <Dave> Greetigs
Oct 20 23:07:50 <timur> hehhe sounds like fanatics period... :)
Oct 20 23:08:07 * techiem2-r destroys john for suggesting that Linux isn't perfect :P
Oct 20 23:08:08 <Kensan> mwester: ok was a bit confused. obviously checkroot.sh does this.
Oct 20 23:08:27 <john> Hi Dave!
Oct 20 23:08:31 <Dave> Hello :)
Oct 20 23:08:37 <timur> all right, so does anyone know if the wireless on OpenMoko going to be less flaky soon?
Oct 20 23:08:48 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 20 23:08:50 <Dave> unlkikely
Oct 20 23:08:56 <timur> heh damn it...
Oct 20 23:09:40 <timur> i'm writing a project that relies on frequent scanning and association and then short transfers... when the moko goes in a state where i can't scan it kinda ruins the whole thing
Oct 20 23:09:52 <techiem2-r> minor detail
Oct 20 23:10:11 <Dave> heh
Oct 20 23:10:17 <timur> i looked at maybe using the iphone or the touch (hence the mac channel), but neither of those has a way to scan from command line
Oct 20 23:10:32 <timur> are there any linux phones that would work somewhat reliably that you guys know of?
Oct 20 23:10:34 * mwester suggests the N800 or N810
Oct 20 23:10:47 <Dave> Yes
Oct 20 23:10:50 <john> When dealing with RF at all, you should expect it to be flaky.
Oct 20 23:10:55 <Dave> I'd like to try out one of those 810s :p
Oct 20 23:11:57 <timur> well, i'm ok with somewhat flaky, but not unusable until reboot
Oct 20 23:12:25 <timur> i'm ok with going through periods of being unable to even scan, so long as it recovers without a reboot or if there is some way to reset it
Oct 20 23:13:35 <john> Is the driver a module? Maybe unloadinf and reloading the module might work?
Oct 20 23:13:42 <timur> it's compiled in the kernel
Oct 20 23:14:06 <techiem2-r> downing the interface and bringing it back up doesn't work?
Oct 20 23:14:11 <timur> i'll probably make it a project for tomorrow to recompile the kernel with the driver as a module and try removing it and inserting it
Oct 20 23:14:12 <mwester> It won't work as a module currently.
Oct 20 23:14:18 <timur> oh, never mind
Oct 20 23:14:21 <timur> i guess i won't
Oct 20 23:14:23 <mwester> bringing it down and up does nothing.
Oct 20 23:14:27 <techiem2-r> ah
Oct 20 23:14:35 <mwester> powering it off renders it useless until reboot
Oct 20 23:14:45 <mwester> Basicallyt the wifi is almost completely hosed.
Oct 20 23:14:50 <mwester> Rather like the glamo
Oct 20 23:14:52 <mwester> and the GSM
Oct 20 23:15:00 <mwester> which leaves you with...
Oct 20 23:15:02 <mwester> ...
Oct 20 23:15:10 <john> Buying a G1?
Oct 20 23:15:13 <timur> mwester, do you know if there are any private ioctls that would affect it?
Oct 20 23:15:32 <mwester> timur - the kernel devs have been working on it for months
Oct 20 23:15:48 <timur> grreat, ok, time to look for a new platform :)
Oct 20 23:16:30 <mwester> timur:  You could always use an outboard wifi device on a USB dongle.
Oct 20 23:16:39 <john> timur: the G1 from T-Mobile?
Oct 20 23:16:41 <tomer_> can i install Android on the FR?
Oct 20 23:16:41 <mwester> The GTA02 can even power one
Oct 20 23:16:53 <timur> oooh, that would actually be a really good solution
Oct 20 23:17:02 <mwester> tomer_: if you can find the complete source code for Android, yes.
Oct 20 23:17:12 <mattl> it's coming, i believe.
Oct 20 23:17:16 <tomer_> mwester: isn't it open sourced?
Oct 20 23:17:25 <mwester> tomer_: only promises.
Oct 20 23:17:26 * stevenSn will belive it when he can compile it
Oct 20 23:17:53 <timur> mwester, thanks a bunch. i think tomorrow i'll be buying some dongles :)
Oct 20 23:17:57 <tomer_> mwester: and then it will work out of the box...?
Oct 20 23:17:57 <mwester> :)
Oct 20 23:18:11 <john> I think ATM, Neo is the only platform with an open-source phone stack
Oct 20 23:18:14 <Dave> Raster, COME FORTH!
Oct 20 23:18:16 <timur> i didn't even think of that... i'm silly
Oct 20 23:18:20 <mwester> tomer_ : you'll need a special cable, but Speedevil has made it work on the GTA01
Oct 20 23:18:45 <mwester> er, that was for timur
Oct 20 23:18:47 <john> I thought raster coded in C, not forth?
Oct 20 23:19:02 <Dave> hah
Oct 20 23:19:37 * techiem2-r wonders if he could bind the internal wifi card with a usb wifi card for extra speediness
Oct 20 23:19:37 <timur> mwester, couldn't i just buy a converter and put it on the end of the cable that comes with FR and then plug the dongle into it?
Oct 20 23:19:48 <techiem2-r> wait...it's only USB1 isn't it?
Oct 20 23:19:53 <john> How dificult would it be to cut the USB A connector off a cable and wire a mini-B or what ever plugs into the FR?
Oct 20 23:19:55 <tomer_> my FR's battery lasts for 6 hours and two short calls - is this normal?
Oct 20 23:20:18 <mwester> tomer_: to make Android work on the FR will require some kernel mods, I expect. so it's not "out of the box".  It's just not something that anyone here as even looked at yet.  (although if I were an Android developer, I would certainly have a Proof-of-concept project going on to ensure that it worked on more than just the T1, and the FR would be a logical choice)
Oct 20 23:20:21 <Dave> techiem2-r: bind, no, usurp, sure
Oct 20 23:20:26 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 20 23:21:10 <Dave> First thing I fucking did was compile usb wifi drivers
Oct 20 23:21:14 <Kensan> mwester: I think bricode has looked at android kernel & FR
Oct 20 23:21:22 <mwester> timur:  Check the wiki, I think someone put a page up that describes the wiring of the cable that would do it -- and there is a /sys file that needs to be changed to tell the FR that it is to be the USB host (because the connector lacks the pin that would tell it this information)
Oct 20 23:21:22 <tomer_> mwester: i'm guessing that in the comming months we'll see a few more models from the big companies
Oct 20 23:21:36 <techiem2-r> mhm
Oct 20 23:21:41 <timur> mwester, sweet, thanks a bunch
Oct 20 23:21:47 <zash> http://www.kjell.com/content/media/images/items/68613.jpg
Oct 20 23:21:57 * techiem2-r made himself a usb host + power cable and wrote a pygtk app to switch usb modes
Oct 20 23:22:05 <Dave> zash :o
Oct 20 23:22:07 <mwester> Kensan:  You're right - he did say he'd built a kernel with the mods.  So then things like the audio routing, the video, etc, would need mappings and possible glue.
Oct 20 23:23:15 <mwester> tomer: Motorola will be coming out with an Android device, according to the rumors being published in the online magazines lately.  So we'll see a bunch of potentially-open devices.
Oct 20 23:23:16 <Kensan> mwester: / is still ro then bootchart wants to write to it. Then I don't understand why it has worked before.
Oct 20 23:23:33 <Dave> spackle, glue, mush, what's next mwester?
Oct 20 23:23:35 <Kensan> anyways, already late here
Oct 20 23:23:42 <tomer_> mwester: i heard of LG and Samsung too
Oct 20 23:23:46 <john> zash: I found a site selling those for $1.50, but it was $7.50 shipping and it took 12 to meet the minimum order.
Oct 20 23:23:52 <Dave> Our freerunner is going to become an amorphous blob of workaround code
Oct 20 23:23:57 <mwester> Kensan:  just change the command line to mount the rootfs rw .
Oct 20 23:23:58 <Kensan> Dave: ducktape!
Oct 20 23:23:59 <zash> john: doh
Oct 20 23:24:03 <Dave> huzzah!
Oct 20 23:24:59 <Kensan> mwester: seriously, could you stop for just one moment on making me look like a fool here? ;)
Oct 20 23:25:21 <mwester> :p
Oct 20 23:25:44 <john> Yea, mwester. He can do a pretty good job of that himself. He doesn't need your help (-;
Oct 20 23:25:48 <raster> Kensan:  but he's having so much fun!
Oct 20 23:26:04 <john> Heya raster!
Oct 20 23:26:17 * mwester is off to find some dinner.
Oct 20 23:26:17 * raster wobbles @ john 
Oct 20 23:26:19 <Kensan> mwester: oh while you are happily answering all my questions: what's your take on the GTA01 and the hope that it might become a usable phone someday (especially wrt battery time)?
Oct 20 23:26:37 <mwester> Kensan:  I *really* like my GTA01
Oct 20 23:26:43 <Kensan> yeah, let's make fun of the little guy
Oct 20 23:26:48 <Kensan> very funny ha ha
Oct 20 23:27:11 <Kensan> mwester: ok that's good news :) I am rather fond of my white-orange Neo1973 :)
Oct 20 23:27:25 * Kensan is < 170cm
Oct 20 23:27:25 <tomer> so i'm not the only one with 6 hours of battery life?
Oct 20 23:27:28 <mwester> it's been rock-solid wrt to suspend/resume, and as soon as the GSM problem is fixed it'll be a fabulous little device.
Oct 20 23:27:58 <mwester> I use a bluetooth network so while it lacks wifi, it can connect to the internet just fine around my house.
Oct 20 23:28:11 <mwester> But I'm sorry about the color of yours :(
Oct 20 23:28:36 <john> wifi was one of my 'needs'. That's why I waited for the GTA02.
Oct 20 23:28:42 <Kensan> mwester: It's awesome! The colors rock! I will be able to pass this on to my kids as security!
Oct 20 23:28:48 <Kensan> it will be worth a lot
Oct 20 23:28:59 <raster> mwester: like gta02 could have been... without glamo :)
Oct 20 23:29:04 <mwester> The colors are... "unique"...
Oct 20 23:29:12 <zash> any news on gta03?
Oct 20 23:29:21 <mwester> raster: Exactly right!
Oct 20 23:29:30 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: in principle, GTA01 can have at least several days standby.
Oct 20 23:29:39 <raster> glamo is one pandoras box of evils
Oct 20 23:29:50 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: this pretty much presumes cesarb's frequency patches though.
Oct 20 23:30:00 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: hm I don't know where I got this from but I was led to believe that the GTA01 had a serious hardware defect wrt battery life...
Oct 20 23:30:32 <Dave> as was I
Oct 20 23:30:54 <mwester> Yeah, and the infrastructure for cesarb's work is all there -- what happened, IMO, is that the glamo and the other evils in the GTA02 took away the resources to make the frequency stuff part of the stock kernel.
Oct 20 23:30:56 <john> me too (-;
Oct 20 23:31:07 <mwester> It's almost completely there - it's such a shame that cesarb's stuff got dropped
Oct 20 23:31:47 <john> So, jump on it and start merging, mwester (-;
Oct 20 23:31:59 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: as I understand it, tehre isn't any fundamental battery flaw. 
Oct 20 23:32:34 <mwester> Gotta wait for the 2.6.27 kenel, john -- otherwise its wasted effort.  And we can't go to that kernel because we're all stuck while Om tries to make that kernel work on the GTA02
Oct 20 23:32:36 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: oh wow, that's very good news for me. Don't know where I picked up that wrong info ...
Oct 20 23:32:37 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: though without GSM firmware updates, it'll never be >45 hours or so stabdby
Oct 20 23:32:49 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: at least with GSM on
Oct 20 23:33:05 <Kensan> mwester: well what's missing from cesarb's work?
Oct 20 23:33:11 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: hm ok.
Oct 20 23:33:26 <Dave> the work
Oct 20 23:33:37 <raster> yo momma
Oct 20 23:33:38 <Dave> :p
Oct 20 23:33:42 <mwester> Kensan:  I honestly don't recall the details, but some drivers needed some extra work, and then (of course) testing.
Oct 20 23:33:45 <Dave> COMPLY!
Oct 20 23:33:56 <SpeedEvil> I think serial was being difficult.
Oct 20 23:33:56 <john> Wait for OM? seems this community does much better work so why wait for them?
Oct 20 23:34:04 <Kensan> mwester: ok.
Oct 20 23:34:26 <Kensan> Well I think OM has more or less abandoned GTA01 so... 
Oct 20 23:34:31 * ljp thinks mwester should try UBIFS
Oct 20 23:34:35 <cesarb> Kensan: several drivers need work
Oct 20 23:34:44 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  The serial is easily fixed though (but it's a hack) -- we shut down the serial and flow-control the GSM.  I.E. we handle the GSM as if we have suspended.
Oct 20 23:34:45 <Kensan> cesarb: oh there you are :)
Oct 20 23:34:56 <mwester> There he is!
Oct 20 23:35:04 <mwester> Greetings cesarb!
Oct 20 23:35:09 * SpeedEvil passes cesarb a couple of weeks.
Oct 20 23:35:10 <cesarb> Kensan: and I ported it to a more recente kernel, but didn't send the patches to the list yet (they are on the repository at repo.or.cz)
Oct 20 23:35:17 <john> Hey Mr. Nokia!
Oct 20 23:35:24 <Kensan> cesarb: great stuff.
Oct 20 23:35:38 <Kensan> cesarb: I would be very inclined to test or help out where I can.
Oct 20 23:35:42 <cesarb> Kensan: that was several weeks ago, I haven't even _looked_ at the code since
Oct 20 23:36:01 <mwester> ljp:  On my "I wish I had 36 hours in a day" list :)
Oct 20 23:36:05 <Dave> hoenoes, it's cesarb!
Oct 20 23:36:28 * cesarb also hasn't read the mailing lists since, and thus has no idea what happened since except "Android appeared"
Oct 20 23:36:41 <mwester> ljp: but some folks on OE are interested, so once they do the work, it may be as easy as telling OE to create a UBIFS image along with the JFFS2 image.
Oct 20 23:36:42 <Dave> Mwester: I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Oct 20 23:36:59 <Kensan> cesarb: well... not too much, but mwester can surely give you a better summary that's more accurate *heh*
Oct 20 23:37:02 <mwester> You saw my web site, my newsletter would be worse, so no such thing!
Oct 20 23:37:11 <Dave> hahaha, oh yeah
Oct 20 23:37:15 <Dave> Good point :p
Oct 20 23:37:21 <Kensan> mwester: puppies!
Oct 20 23:37:21 <john> I thought your website rocked!
Oct 20 23:37:25 <Dave> haha
Oct 20 23:37:29 <Dave> How much time went into it?
Oct 20 23:37:34 * Dave braces himself
Oct 20 23:37:34 <mwester> anbout 10 minutes
Oct 20 23:37:37 <Dave> :D
Oct 20 23:37:38 <ljp> mwester: well, from our initial tests it seems ubifs is much faster booting than jffs2
Oct 20 23:37:42 <Dave> The truth will set you free.
Oct 20 23:37:44 <Kensan> mwester: that's about the right amount.
Oct 20 23:37:53 <Dave> I think the concensus is clear, Mwester, more puppies!
Oct 20 23:37:54 <Dave> :)
Oct 20 23:38:09 <Kensan> ljp: well that is to be expected since all the meta-data is on disk.
Oct 20 23:38:09 <mwester> ljp: that's promising -- even more promising that someone was able to use it somewhere.
Oct 20 23:38:32 <mwester> Anyway - gotta run for a bit.
Oct 20 23:38:41 <SpeedEvil> http://www.tanmonkey.com/fun/puppies/puppies-in-a-wagon.jpg
Oct 20 23:38:49 <Kensan> mwester: there was a pull request for UBIFS stuff for 2.6.28 and it had quite a number of patches etc in it...
Oct 20 23:39:06 <Tig|> mwester's images contain puppies?  
Oct 20 23:39:12 <Kensan> Tig|: his webiste
Oct 20 23:39:14 <Kensan> website
Oct 20 23:39:16 <Kensan> dangit
Oct 20 23:39:24 <john> ljp: Any chance of qtExt-4.4.1 tarball I can test on SD?
Oct 20 23:39:37 <Dave> haha
Oct 20 23:39:44 <Dave> TIG
Oct 20 23:39:51 <Dave> Tig, where's your website?
Oct 20 23:39:55 <Dave> and where are YOUR cool images?
Oct 20 23:40:03 <Tig|> Kensan: and I thought raster was the one with the aesthetic edge 
Oct 20 23:40:26 <john> I've got a cool image for yea! -> http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3032tk8.jpg
Oct 20 23:40:27 <Kensan> raster: ok now that mwester showed me my stupidity bootchart is running fine *shame on me*
Oct 20 23:40:34 <Kensan> raster: can send you the ipk if ya want
Oct 20 23:40:51 <Tig|> Dave: http://da.mned.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dscf0586.jpg   <-- me in my canoe the other day :)
Oct 20 23:41:30 <Kensan> Tig|: well some aussies do have an affinity for puppies *heh*
Oct 20 23:42:09 <Tig|> Kensan: are we talking the interesting puppies or the small dog versions :P
Oct 20 23:42:40 <Dave> oh snaps!
Oct 20 23:42:43 <Kensan> Tig|: http://lguest.ozlabs.org/ at the bottom
Oct 20 23:42:50 <ljp> john: you will want to wait for 4.4.2 or a snapshot
Oct 20 23:43:38 <Dave> Tig, sweet
Oct 20 23:44:38 <Tig|> Kensan: and the award for the gratuitous use of puppies in a free software project goes to....   :)
Oct 20 23:45:10 <john> But all I do is wait )-; Wait for Opteron, wait for KDE-4, wait for qtExt. I'm still running a KDE-3.2 desktop because I'm waiting for a decent version of KDE-4.
Oct 20 23:45:18 <Kensan> Tig|: it's even in the kernel... build the lguest docs and you will see them... scary how much he likes puppies. *heh*
Oct 20 23:45:35 <john> But since you're the inside man, I'll take your word on it (-;
Oct 20 23:46:25 <Kensan> s/kernel/kernel source/
Oct 20 23:46:25 <apt> Kensan meant: Tig|: it's even in the kernel source... build the lguest docs and you will see them... scary how much he likes puppies. *heh*
Oct 20 23:46:26 <john> This is still the FB version, right?
Oct 20 23:46:36 <Tig|> hmm are we going to get a new entry in the linux kernal swear counts?  most rude words are in there and penguin,  should the owner be warned about puppies? :)
Oct 20 23:46:49 <Dave> Wow
Oct 20 23:47:03 <john> moW
Oct 20 23:47:04 <Dave> Beware of rabid calypsos!
Oct 20 23:47:44 <Tig|> Dave,  they are easy to spot,   they are the ones where the coconuts are foaming at the eyes
Oct 20 23:47:53 <Dave> haha
Oct 20 23:47:56 <Dave> Indeed
Oct 20 23:51:28 <john> Any inside info on nokia's work with 3G? I saw the announcement, but I've seen lots of announcements that were just words and no follow-through.
Oct 20 23:52:35 <Kensan> heh funny comment by Andy to Haralds patches.
Oct 20 23:52:53 <Robot101> john: they've merged some patches into the kernel already
Oct 20 23:53:22 <john> Wow! Now that's what I call moving forward.
Oct 20 23:53:34 <Robot101> john: OMAP3 support for high-speed serial, and network stack support for phonet, which is a packet format they use to talk to their HSDPA chips
Oct 20 23:53:51 <john> Guess they've really learned a lot lately.
Oct 20 23:54:05 <Tig|> bedtime for me,  ttfn all
Oct 20 23:54:09 <john> Maybe they should buy nVidia (-=
Oct 20 23:56:07 <john> I was slightly nervous when they bought Trolltech. But then their promise to release symbian after they bought it made me feel a little better, but not fully convinced.
Oct 20 23:56:25 <Dave> Everybody's buying someone else
Oct 20 23:56:48 * techiem2-r wishes he could buy em all and open source everything
Oct 20 23:57:08 <Dave> haha
Oct 20 23:57:09 <Dave> commie :p
Oct 20 23:57:18 <john> Speaking of which, did anyone see the OpenGL announcement from SGI?
Oct 20 23:57:39 <undrwater> anyone using fdom?
Oct 20 23:58:03 <undrwater> or...does anyone know which kernel has the working modules for fdom
Oct 20 23:58:09 <john> I'm still on 2007.2
Oct 20 23:58:18 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 20 23:58:59 * Dave high-fives john
Oct 20 23:59:05 <undrwater> that's awesome
Oct 20 23:59:14 <Wonka> i'm thinking about restoring my 2008.4 backup and putting in a newer kernel...
Oct 20 23:59:21 <undrwater> i don't need a phone yet...so i'm hopping
Oct 20 23:59:47 <john> Though I really want to try qtExt.
Oct 21 00:00:09 <Kensan> good night everyone
Oct 21 00:00:09 <john> Just cause I bought several QT programming books.
Oct 21 00:00:10 <techiem2-r> night
Oct 21 00:00:15 <john> nite
Oct 21 00:00:16 <Dave> nice :p
Oct 21 00:00:24 <Dave> Wonka - kinky
Oct 21 00:03:24 <john> I've got FSO-20080911 on SD, but can't even add contacts in it }-: So I stick with 2007.2 till something better comes along.
Oct 21 00:03:35 <Wonka> Dave: i liked that design...
Oct 21 00:04:35 <Wonka> Dave: especially the idea of the power button and aux button menus
Oct 21 00:04:53 <Wonka> Dave: i'm just missing "lock now"...
Oct 21 00:05:03 <Wonka> Dave: and "dim, but stay unlocked"
Oct 21 00:22:34 <Dave> Wonka, yeah, awesome
Oct 21 00:22:40 <Dave> that's a good reason to go for it, certainly :)
Oct 21 00:23:11 <phobie> Is the microsd-card hotplugable?
Oct 21 00:23:54 <BobOfDoom> phobie: yes, if you can figure out a way to hotplug it without losing power :p
Oct 21 00:24:13 <Dave> haha, I have
Oct 21 00:24:16 <phobie> BobOfDoom: yes with usb-cable...
Oct 21 00:24:16 <Dave> and it doesn't work
Oct 21 00:24:37 <Dave> also if the SIM loses contact, it fucks up the GSM modem
Oct 21 00:25:05 <BobOfDoom> ah really?
Oct 21 00:25:06 <BobOfDoom> hmm
Oct 21 00:25:15 <phobie> since gsm, does not work I moved my sim to the old phone
Oct 21 00:25:17 <BobOfDoom> kernel SD card driver must be a trigger to rescan it then
Oct 21 00:25:32 <BobOfDoom> need*
Oct 21 00:25:34 <phobie> what is the name of the sd driver?
Oct 21 00:26:33 <BobOfDoom> s3cmci
Oct 21 00:26:43 <BobOfDoom> yeah, if you build it as a module I guess you could rmmod and insmod it again
Oct 21 00:26:46 <BobOfDoom> that might work
Oct 21 00:27:15 <phobie> root@om-gta02:/# modprobe s3cmci
Oct 21 00:27:17 <phobie> FATAL: Module s3cmci not found
Oct 21 00:27:53 <BobOfDoom> yeah, it's probably builtin, you'd have to compile it as a module
Oct 21 00:28:13 <BobOfDoom> have a poke around in /sys too
Oct 21 00:28:24 <BobOfDoom> there might be some way to power on and off the SD
Oct 21 00:31:15 <Dave> Bob, after swapping SDs with power ON, I wasn't even able to remount it.
Oct 21 00:31:17 <phobie> the sd was not in during boot, and the module is missing
Oct 21 00:41:26 <Dave> phobie - yep!
Oct 21 00:46:11 * hipitihop waves late good morning to the inmates
Oct 21 00:46:26 * techiem2-r frantically tries to scale the wall
Oct 21 00:48:02 <Dave> Hippityhop! :D
Oct 21 00:48:07 <Dave> haha, techie :p
Oct 21 00:53:28 <phobie> How can it be that the FR sees 12 satelites but get no fix?
Oct 21 00:53:45 <techiem2-r> it doesn't like them?
Oct 21 00:54:01 <Dave> huhu
Oct 21 00:54:56 <phobie> #openmoko-smalltalk ?
Oct 21 00:55:16 <thseiler_> phobie: it needs a higher signal level to properly decode the messages than to detect that there is a signal
Oct 21 00:55:26 <Dave> #openmoko-offtopic
Oct 21 00:55:45 <Dave> thseiler, of course :)
Oct 21 00:56:07 <hipitihop> phobie, only if we get the Squeak VM running on the FR
Oct 21 00:56:09 <Wonka> i am so happy the GTA03 will have u-blox 5 GPS...
Oct 21 00:56:29 <Wonka> and also EDGE
Oct 21 00:56:30 <phobie> On [[GPS_Problems]] someone wrote that the fix-data can be saved before shutdown and than reloaded after reboot.
Oct 21 00:56:42 <phobie> Anyone knows something about that?
Oct 21 00:57:09 <Wonka> phobie: frameworkd's ogpsd has support for saving and restoring assist data, yes
Oct 21 00:57:22 <Wonka> phobie: but almanach data is only valid for about 4 hours
Oct 21 00:57:50 <phobie> not bad
Oct 21 00:57:59 <hipitihop> rwhitby, you about ?
Oct 21 00:58:12 <Wonka> and afaik "assist offline" is not supported by the antaris 4...
Oct 21 00:58:36 <Wonka> at least, i always got negative replies on my commands to tell me what almanach package it wanted...
Oct 21 00:58:53 <Wonka> "don't know what you want from me"-type replies
Oct 21 01:00:39 <phobie> how is fso-gpsd (which runs here) related to ogpsd
Oct 21 01:00:42 <phobie> ?
Oct 21 01:01:21 <Wonka> ogpsd provides a gypsy interface
Oct 21 01:01:26 <Wonka> which is via dbus
Oct 21 01:01:45 <Wonka> fso-gpsd is a gypsy client and gpsd-style server
Oct 21 01:02:27 <Wonka> when a gpsd client connects to fso-gpsd, it itself connects to the gypsy interface and converts the data it receives there to the gpsd protocol
Oct 21 01:03:49 <phobie> ok, in my scripts I read from the fso-gpsd via tcp, so it would be better to access the access the gypsy interface directly.
Oct 21 01:04:07 <phobie> is that documented somewhere?
Oct 21 01:05:09 <phobie> -1x"access the"
Oct 21 01:05:23 <phobie> oh it's too late
Oct 21 01:05:26 <Wonka> around http://folks.o-hand.com/iain/gypsy/
Oct 21 01:05:56 <sicu> why is it too late ?
Oct 21 01:06:23 <sicu_> anyone got numptyphysics working on fso/shr ?
Oct 21 01:06:25 <phobie> only because the clock says that...
Oct 21 01:06:35 <Sascha> phobie: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=blob;f=examples/ogpsd_signals.py
Oct 21 01:07:01 <phobie> sicu_ it is preinstalled on my fso image and it works
Oct 21 01:07:11 <sicu_> i keep getting dependency issues: http://pastebin.com/d34020ed2
Oct 21 01:07:20 <sicu_> running shr
Oct 21 01:08:08 <Dave> :o
Oct 21 01:08:09 <phobie> I think shr is very incomplete, you could also install fso-testing and install some software with opkg
Oct 21 01:08:50 <sicu_> phobie: k, thx
Oct 21 01:09:31 <Wonka> regarding numptyphysics: is there a way to restart a level? how to exit it cleanly? any way to save and restore states?
Oct 21 01:09:51 <phobie> sicu how about "opkg update;opkg install libsdl-1.2-0 libsdl-image-1.2-0" ?
Oct 21 01:10:06 <phobie> Wonka cursor up
Oct 21 01:10:17 <Dave> hah
Oct 21 01:10:18 <phobie> needs a keyboard...
Oct 21 01:10:23 <Dave> It's pretty terrible, yeah
Oct 21 01:10:31 <Dave> It's playable in 2007 after some hax
Oct 21 01:10:56 <Dave> whee
Oct 21 01:11:02 <Wonka> hm. hm. keyboard should even fit below it...
Oct 21 01:11:02 <phobie> yesterday I build a recent debian package for that game
Oct 21 01:11:07 <Dave> yeah
Oct 21 01:11:11 <sicu> hax are good
Oct 21 01:11:12 <phobie> much fun to play it on my desk
Oct 21 01:11:17 <Dave> Yep :D
Oct 21 01:11:29 <Dave> man, video is so awesome on the freerunner, when it works.
Oct 21 01:11:43 <Dave> I still think that so far, it's best as an image displayer.
Oct 21 01:11:52 <Dave> the screen is tiny, but awesome.
Oct 21 01:12:09 <phobie> better than all deskto-tfts
Oct 21 01:12:23 <phobie> +p
Oct 21 01:12:32 <Wonka> phobie: *want*
Oct 21 01:12:40 <Wonka> phobie: when does it go into debian?
Oct 21 01:12:41 <sicu> phobie: same issue as before (the pastbin i posted)
Oct 21 01:13:04 <phobie> Wonka: it's missing a manpage, beside of that it is lintian clean...
Oct 21 01:13:39 <phobie> I already uploaded to mentors
Oct 21 01:13:39 <phobie> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=numptyphysics
Oct 21 01:13:47 <Dave> heh
Oct 21 01:13:50 <phobie> but mentors only hosts sources
Oct 21 01:13:54 <Dave> weak sauce
Oct 21 01:14:15 <sicu> guess i'll just play openmoocow instead
Oct 21 01:14:20 <phobie> so I but it on http://debian.zaubberer.net/ and launchpad (for ubuntu users)
Oct 21 01:14:39 <phobie> https://launchpad.net/~phobie/+archive
Oct 21 01:14:44 <Dave> hells yeah!
Oct 21 01:14:46 <Wonka> sicu: lol, that name is awsum
Oct 21 01:14:51 * Dave bows
Oct 21 01:14:52 <phobie> sicu: did the opkg command work?
Oct 21 01:15:20 <Dave> what the fuck, why did my keys remap themselves.
Oct 21 01:15:45 * Dave møøs at sicu
Oct 21 01:19:23 <sicu_> phobie: yes it did: http://pastebin.no/60857
Oct 21 01:20:02 <phobie> Wonka: I'm unsure about if I understand this right. gypsy reads the inerface and parses the nmea-code, than fso-gpsd gets the parsed code and generates nmea again?
Oct 21 01:21:00 <Dave> hmm, perhaps when the girl comes in and asks what smells so nice, and notices the candles, I shouldn't follow it up with, "unlike you" :p
Oct 21 01:21:02 <phobie> sicu: you numptyphysics has bad dependencies
Oct 21 01:21:23 <phobie> sicu: or you libsdl package has bad provides
Oct 21 01:21:29 <phobie> take what you want ;)
Oct 21 01:21:44 <Dave> :D
Oct 21 01:21:50 <sicu> phobie: thx, i'll take it all :p
Oct 21 01:21:52 <Dave> I think sicu just sucks at packaging.
Oct 21 01:21:55 <phobie> could be that opkg, unlike dpkg, does not offer "provides"
Oct 21 01:21:58 <Dave> no offense, sicu :D
Oct 21 01:22:19 <cjb_ie> wow. i need to get a life. glanced at my screen and read 'numptyphysics' as 'nymphomaniacs'
Oct 21 01:22:24 <sicu> lol ... i didnt do the packaging
Oct 21 01:22:28 <Dave> hahaha
Oct 21 01:22:31 <Dave> fucking cjb
Oct 21 01:22:37 <sicu> and you're right .. i do ... a lot more would've failes
Oct 21 01:22:43 <sicu> s/s/d
Oct 21 01:22:43 <cjb_ie> nymphomaniacs with bad dependencies!
Oct 21 01:23:00 * Dave fears
Oct 21 01:24:30 * sicu +s eyes glaze over as he pictures nymphomaniacs with bad dependencies
Oct 21 01:24:46 * sicu calls for timeout
Oct 21 01:25:34 <phobie> sicu: perhaps you should write the maintainers of those packages
Oct 21 01:25:35 <phobie> opkg info libsdl-1.2-0
Oct 21 01:25:49 <Sascha> phobie: ogpsd uses the ubx binary format, not nmea...
Oct 21 01:26:36 <phobie> opkg info numptyphysics
Oct 21 01:26:47 <Dave> Segmentation fault
Oct 21 01:27:03 * cjb_ie ponders nymphophysics
Oct 21 01:27:19 <phobie> Sascha: but the gps-device sends nmea, doesn't it?
Oct 21 01:27:54 <Sascha> ogpsd switches the device to ubx mode
Oct 21 01:27:55 <phobie> sicu: try a other source for your numptyphysics package, mine has correct dependencies
Oct 21 01:28:22 <sicu_> phobie: http://pastebin.no/60861
Oct 21 01:28:37 <sicu_> ok, will do
Oct 21 01:28:45 <Sascha> one reasen, why you should never read /dev/ttySAC directly ;)
Oct 21 01:28:48 <phobie> Sascha: ah, how to dump the ubx-stream?
Oct 21 01:28:56 * Dave boggles
Oct 21 01:29:05 <Sascha> enable debugging in frameworkd
Oct 21 01:29:40 <phobie> Sascha: that means there is no intended way
Oct 21 01:30:52 <phobie> sicu: that menas numptyphysics is not available from the repositories in /etc/opkg/
Oct 21 01:32:12 <Wonka> phobie: gpsd does not spit out NMEA, afaik...
Oct 21 01:32:35 <phobie> ?
Oct 21 01:32:38 <Sascha> phobie: maybe you want to look into subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py
Oct 21 01:32:39 <phobie> gpspipe
Oct 21 01:33:07 <sicu_> phobie: well, i used opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/numptyphysics_0.2_armv4t.ipk
Oct 21 01:33:24 <phobie> Sascha: I read nmea from fso-gpsd.
Oct 21 01:33:30 <Wonka> phobie: "man gpsd", start reading at "The request protocol for gpsd clients is very simple."
Oct 21 01:33:35 <sicu_> phobie: whats the uri to your package?
Oct 21 01:33:44 <sicu_> that came out wrong
Oct 21 01:33:58 <Dave> Who set me up the opkg bomb!?
Oct 21 01:34:04 <sicu_> :o
Oct 21 01:34:14 <phobie> sicu: http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-unstable/feeds/armv4t/numptyphysics_0.2+svnr45-r0_armv4t.ipk
Oct 21 01:35:28 <Sascha> phobie: ah ok, fso-gpsd doent know anythink about ubx...
Oct 21 01:36:54 <Sascha> its too late... :/
Oct 21 01:37:00 <phobie> Sascha: I just lookt what tangogps sends and sent the same thing (a "r")
Oct 21 01:38:01 <sicu> phobie: great, that worked ... thx =]
Oct 21 01:38:01 <sicu_> spank spank opkg.org for having louzy numpty package
Oct 21 01:38:26 <Sascha> the gpsd protocol is specified in man 8 gpsd
Oct 21 01:38:47 <phobie> sicu: now write to the maintainer on opkg.org and tell him about that problem!
Oct 21 01:38:52 <Sascha> r  Sets or toggles ´raw´ mode.
Oct 21 01:38:56 <Sascha> => nmea
Oct 21 01:39:06 <phobie> Sascha: just read that...
Oct 21 01:39:51 <sicu> phobie: on it =]
Oct 21 01:42:00 <Wonka> O.o
Oct 21 01:42:07 <Dave> heehee
Oct 21 01:42:09 <Wonka> "raw" is... ugly. 
Oct 21 01:42:20 <Wonka> should usw "w", i think
Oct 21 01:42:24 <Wonka> use, even
Oct 21 01:42:39 <Wonka> anyway, i'm going to use my bed now.
Oct 21 01:43:14 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 21 01:45:18 <Dave> don't you mean usw
Oct 21 01:45:43 <phobie> I will stop with alls that nmea and generate GPX from the debus interface
Oct 21 01:46:03 <phobie> -s
Oct 21 01:48:22 <Dave> mwester, still up?
Oct 21 01:52:58 <sicu> just a few more rounds of openmoocow and i'm off to bed
Oct 21 02:03:53 <Dave> :D
Oct 21 02:30:55 <dskippy> I'm having a problem typing on the 2008.09 keyboard. I'm trying to type the phrase "agoodone" with no spaces. I type 'a' and an 'a' comes up. I type 'g' and 'ah' appears above. I can't figure out how to keep the keyboard from guessing. I also can't figure out how to hit enter or space.
Oct 21 02:32:38 <phobie> change the keyboard to terminal?
Oct 21 02:32:54 <slaxxin> go ahead a try to blind type the whole word an see what it comes up with
Oct 21 02:34:45 <dskippy> slaxxin, it says "explains" and "adoptive" as guesses and I have no enter key.
Oct 21 02:35:19 <dskippy> slaxxin: Also, the wifi password entry field gets a character (presumably 'a' but it's stared out) when I hit 'a' first.
Oct 21 02:35:20 <Dave> omg
Oct 21 02:35:25 <slaxxin> rake up or down with your fingernail
Oct 21 02:35:36 * Dave creates the first pokemon application for the freerunner
Oct 21 02:35:53 <Dave> Wait, I hope that's not going to bring down my rep...
Oct 21 02:36:02 <slaxxin> to flip the keybard
Oct 21 02:36:17 <gmaxwell> I hate predictive entry. It's useful when you're hunting an pecking and are slow enough to run closed loop, but you can't run even partially open loop that way.
Oct 21 02:36:46 <slaxxin> illume keyboard
Oct 21 02:38:12 <phobie> I think we need a T9-keyboard
Oct 21 02:38:26 <dskippy> slaxxin, I'll try that when it comes back on. 
Oct 21 02:38:38 <dskippy> I think the battery keeps dying when it sleeps after 30 seconds.
Oct 21 02:39:23 <slaxxin> sounds like u need fdom
Oct 21 02:39:35 <Dave> :p
Oct 21 02:40:02 <dskippy> slaxxin, Actually I was just reading about FDOM since it was just release.
Oct 21 02:40:10 <dskippy> Does it solve some power issue?
Oct 21 02:40:57 <dskippy> There's no .bin for FDOM. Do I just flash the file system onto the most recent version of 2008.09?
Oct 21 02:41:17 <slaxxin> there  is too
Oct 21 02:42:16 <dskippy> here? http://compartida.net/openmoko/FDOM/
Oct 21 02:42:22 <dskippy> Oh!
Oct 21 02:42:25 <dskippy> I'm dumb. NM
Oct 21 02:42:33 <slaxxin> well
Oct 21 02:42:46 <dskippy> ssssssh. Don't tell anyone.
Oct 21 02:44:26 <dskippy> Raking my finger up and down doesn't seem to do anything.
Oct 21 02:44:35 <dskippy> Where am I supposed to do this?
Oct 21 02:44:38 <dskippy> On the keyboard?
Oct 21 02:44:44 <dskippy> It's supposed to change the keyboard?
Oct 21 02:45:16 <slaxxin> yes
Oct 21 02:45:46 <dskippy> I must not be doing it right.
Oct 21 02:47:12 <slaxxin> is there an emblem to the right middle of the screen?
Oct 21 02:47:46 <slaxxin> right edge
Oct 21 02:48:28 <dskippy> Oh got it.
Oct 21 02:48:34 <dskippy> I was going way too fast.
Oct 21 02:48:36 <slaxxin> what
Oct 21 02:49:56 <dskippy> Okay, well I think I typed the correct passwd for my WPA but it's unable to join the network. 
Oct 21 02:50:07 <dskippy> I think I'm just going to try downloading FDOM and try again.
Oct 21 02:50:23 <dskippy> That's for the keyboard-switch trick though.
Oct 21 02:50:25 <dskippy> Very good to know.
Oct 21 02:52:08 <Dave> holy network revision batman!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 21 02:59:57 2008