**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 21 02:59:57 2008 Oct 21 03:08:38 robin to the rescue Oct 21 03:09:21 battyboy and robin Oct 21 03:09:24 :o Oct 21 03:10:23 ;D Oct 21 03:22:51 someone already experimented bad issue with a telstra prepayd load, please ? Oct 21 06:14:45 Go Harald! http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2008/10/20/#20081020-nand_speed Oct 21 06:16:24 go hazzaaaaa! Oct 21 06:16:41 :) Oct 21 06:16:56 moo Oct 21 06:22:30 hi, i installend 2008.8 release with enlightenment, but how can i disable turn off of screen ? Oct 21 06:22:50 because when a turn off of the screen is done i lost usb connection Oct 21 06:22:58 is there a way to do that? how? Oct 21 06:32:07 geaaru: you mean it suspends? You can change that from Settings->Suspend = off Oct 21 06:32:23 ah k thanks Oct 21 06:34:10 and still a stupid question, how i close program with enlightenment? power button doesn't work with e Oct 21 06:34:30 You can use the top shelf Remove command Oct 21 06:34:49 * Kred doesn't know the proper name for the top :) Oct 21 06:34:57 good morning Oct 21 06:35:05 Morning :) Oct 21 06:35:18 ok works :) thank you very very much Oct 21 06:35:25 Kred: in e its the slipshelf Oct 21 06:35:31 that remove is silly Oct 21 06:35:32 ah ok :) Oct 21 06:36:07 i disavow myself of the design of having a home in a lsit of app iwnodw Oct 21 06:36:10 sand a remove to close the app Oct 21 06:36:25 i point at illume in svn now that by default has the good old 3 buttons back Oct 21 06:36:47 :) Oct 21 06:44:22 but why i can't see gsm, bluetooth applet with enlightenment? is a problem with my environment? Oct 21 06:44:30 or is under development Oct 21 06:44:31 ? Oct 21 06:45:39 bluetooth is bny default (i think) on the top hidden away. Oct 21 06:45:45 u see it when the slipshelf slides out Oct 21 06:45:55 gsm and wifi are there on the main bar Oct 21 06:46:06 always visible at the bottom of the slipshelf Oct 21 06:46:11 (near clock/battery) Oct 21 06:46:18 if u have no gms singal all u see is a tiny Oct 21 06:46:20 "*" Oct 21 06:46:26 or its low signal Oct 21 06:46:37 u may see a Ø Oct 21 06:46:40 if u have no network Oct 21 06:47:36 my problem is that i see nothing on slipshelf (only battery, clock and a very small star) Oct 21 06:47:51 if i go to settings i have Oct 21 06:48:09 bluetooth unknown, gsp unknown. Oct 21 06:48:29 enlightenment environment is compliant with neo 1937 Oct 21 06:48:30 ? Oct 21 06:49:07 the * is gms Oct 21 06:49:12 wifi will be blank until wifi is on Oct 21 06:49:32 never tried it on a 1973 Oct 21 06:49:39 but no reason it shouldnt work Oct 21 06:49:43 on neo1937 there isn't wifi Oct 21 06:49:55 i run it on my n800, zaurus c860 and my treo650 Oct 21 06:50:03 then u'll never see a wifi signal Oct 21 06:50:05 it'll always be 0 Oct 21 06:50:07 ie empty Oct 21 06:50:08 :) Oct 21 06:50:27 :) how can i enable gsm? from e i can't see power menu Oct 21 06:51:05 You can remove the applet (if that's the proper name) by opening the slipshelf and from upper left click on the tool image.. Oct 21 06:51:26 I don't know the proper name in english for the tool :P Oct 21 06:55:05 tool image is an application that maybe i haven't installed because i can't see it Oct 21 06:55:34 G'Morning Oct 21 06:56:42 geaaru: enabling/disabling gsm is not e's thing Oct 21 06:56:50 thats up to qtopia to do it Oct 21 06:56:56 e doesnt pretend to do that Oct 21 06:57:08 just listens for dbus messages telling it of signal strength changes for gsm Oct 21 06:57:14 and operator name Oct 21 06:57:57 k, maybe i have some problem with dbus.... i will see thanks at all for support Oct 21 06:59:04 is qpe running? Oct 21 06:59:36 no Oct 21 07:01:09 there is the problem Oct 21 07:01:17 qpe is what does all the telephony stuff on asu Oct 21 07:01:23 (2008.08/09 etc.) Oct 21 07:02:33 qpe or gpe? Oct 21 07:08:21 qpe Oct 21 07:09:21 can you supply name of the package that contains qpe program, please? Oct 21 07:09:34 s/supply/supply me Oct 21 07:18:35 qtopia-x11-... something Oct 21 07:18:39 not sure Oct 21 07:18:43 i dont use 2008.x Oct 21 07:19:02 k i search, thanks Oct 21 07:58:41 Is /media/ram really what I think it is, a ram disk? Oct 21 07:59:10 Kred: what mount and df -h tell you? Oct 21 07:59:49 Nothing about /media Oct 21 07:59:54 So apparently it's not Oct 21 08:02:33 Kred: /proc/mounts? Oct 21 08:03:33 lindi-: nothing of /media over there either Oct 21 08:29:23 raster: ping Oct 21 08:30:53 pong Oct 21 08:31:05 dong Oct 21 08:56:49 what is package of samegame, pegs, rect, sixteen games ? how can i remove its? Oct 21 08:59:05 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * racaae4f6926b 10/etc/dbus-1/system.d/frameworkd.conf: Fix a few typos in dbus-1/system.d/frameworkd.conf Oct 21 09:06:13 raster: the boottime of my image is around 1min 24 now Oct 21 09:06:33 raster: bare illume without fso, nand patches applied. Oct 21 09:06:57 nand should speedup things noticeably Oct 21 09:07:58 DocScrutinizer: it's not that noticeable on boot with sysv init. Maybe parallel bootupt could benefit. Oct 21 09:09:53 can anyone open https urls on midori or openmoko-browser? Oct 21 09:10:03 i'm especially talking about loggin into google Oct 21 09:10:33 Kensan_: what have u been doing? Oct 21 09:10:36 wasn't it you who was telling me that that paralleling init wouldn't do much of anything? :) Oct 21 09:11:27 raster: I took your latest illume image, removed all fso stuff, stripped some kernel configs and applied laforges nand patches. Oct 21 09:11:47 hmm Oct 21 09:11:49 what kernel configs? Oct 21 09:12:13 ieatlint: yes, because I said IO was the issue. Since IO should be considerably better now it might be worth a shot. I reckon harald has upstart working in his setup... Oct 21 09:12:19 (and i know fso will add bloat to startup - not much to be done other than replace fso... whihc is a tall order right now) Oct 21 09:12:36 i haven't followed much since friday... what IO changes were made? Oct 21 09:12:48 raster: I just deactivated some unneeded stuff (yaffs for example) nothing dramatic. Oct 21 09:13:06 hmm Oct 21 09:13:07 ok Oct 21 09:13:08 raster, just get porting it to c... that should help :) Oct 21 09:13:11 ieatlint: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-October/005917.html Oct 21 09:13:16 thx Oct 21 09:13:25 ieatlint: if someone paid me to - i'd look aat it Oct 21 09:13:51 i will give you 1 million zimbabwean dollars Oct 21 09:13:54 but they're competing for my time so they'll have to pay better than my current clientset :) Oct 21 09:14:07 raster: next up is mdev but I don't have all that much time (only evenings) Oct 21 09:14:17 Kensan_: join the club Oct 21 09:14:21 i need to woprk on elementary Oct 21 09:14:26 raster: hehe Oct 21 09:15:46 raster ... come on, $1m ZWD ... you'd be a millionaire Oct 21 09:17:06 ieatlint: already am a millionaire Oct 21 09:17:08 in yen Oct 21 09:17:09 :) Oct 21 09:18:10 hmmm Oct 21 09:18:21 how can i see if i have Om 2008.8 or Om 2008.9? Oct 21 09:19:10 seriously Oct 21 09:19:12 would love to Oct 21 09:19:18 but priorities are just that Oct 21 09:19:27 clients pay me to look after them and their needs Oct 21 09:19:34 and that is what i do. Oct 21 09:19:51 i have already spent some time on fso and oe images Oct 21 09:19:54 patching up builds Oct 21 09:19:56 portign patches Oct 21 09:19:57 how about $600 billion ZWD using July 30 black market exchange rates? Oct 21 09:20:00 maintaing efl packages Oct 21 09:20:04 Any release date guesses for 2008.10? Oct 21 09:20:27 (which is something like $4 USD) Oct 21 09:20:44 you might be able to get a pint for that... Oct 21 09:21:05 raster: any idea about https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2071 ? Oct 21 09:21:52 johncylee: ecore_con issue Oct 21 09:21:56 i hit it too Oct 21 09:21:58 fixed in upstream Oct 21 09:22:09 and in my FSO (OE) updates and patches Oct 21 09:22:19 so basically u updated and chose a bad svnrev Oct 21 09:22:20 :) Oct 21 09:22:22 ok what svn rev do you use Oct 21 09:22:32 the upsteram oe packages + my patches for fso work Oct 21 09:22:39 just a sec Oct 21 09:22:47 let me add some thngs and commit todays updates Oct 21 09:23:34 raster: so it only works if 1. correct svn rev + 2. your patches ? Oct 21 09:23:35 raster: did you finally get commit access to oe? Oct 21 09:25:08 johncylee: hola Oct 21 09:26:12 XorA: raster just told me fixed in upstream, in my FSO (OE) updates and patches, just a sec, let me add some thngs and commit todays updates Oct 21 09:27:00 XorA: so.. seems OE/OM.dev updated and chose a bad svnrev Oct 21 09:27:58 johncylee: Oct 21 09:27:59 svn co http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/TMP/oe Oct 21 09:28:05 all patches, etc. etc. there Oct 21 09:28:08 21 of them Oct 21 09:28:34 EFL_SRCREV ?= "36882" Oct 21 09:28:37 for me Oct 21 09:28:40 (very recent) Oct 21 09:28:54 and i have eina .bb files for the new lib dep Oct 21 09:29:16 anything i have in my oe svn tree "works" Oct 21 09:29:19 what means this message: Unknown HZ value! (91) Assume 100. Oct 21 09:29:22 raster: libeina already exists Oct 21 09:29:26 where i can set hz? Oct 21 09:29:26 as i do builds for multielp platforms Oct 21 09:30:09 raster: is you eina the same gstreamer library? Oct 21 09:30:16 XorA: no Oct 21 09:30:20 eina data type lib Oct 21 09:30:28 name collision then :-D Oct 21 09:31:10 oh fuck Oct 21 09:31:26 well Oct 21 09:31:28 packages/libeina/libeina_0.96.7.bb in OE Oct 21 09:31:32 for now u'll have to live with the collision Oct 21 09:31:35 yes Oct 21 09:31:36 found it Oct 21 09:34:33 looks like we need to argue over a new name Oct 21 09:34:35 hooray Oct 21 09:48:57 xserver of om2008.8 works still with neo1937? Because i have updated xserver and now there are problem on refresh splitshelf and keyboard Oct 21 09:49:21 raster: ah another very minor thing I changed was to pass lpj (loops per jiffy) as kernel argument. Should save a measely ~250 msec Oct 21 09:53:27 hi mickey|ICE621 Oct 21 09:53:42 where are you going? Oct 21 09:53:52 hi pb__ Oct 21 09:54:02 munich, to the SYSTEMS computer exhibition Oct 21 09:54:27 ah, very good Oct 21 09:54:31 sharing a booth with one of the Openmoko distributors in germany Oct 21 09:54:31 spreading the word... ;) Oct 21 09:54:36 :-) Oct 21 09:55:36 raster: btw, I have hwecc disabled which should speed things up a bit more. Oct 21 09:55:59 Kensan_: see how much u get then Oct 21 09:56:33 raster: yeah will do but I think I will first try to get mdev running. That should bring -10 secs Oct 21 09:56:55 mickey|ICE621: spread the werd-up Oct 21 09:57:04 Kensan_: yeah. XorA is alive Oct 21 09:57:06 ask him Oct 21 09:57:09 Kensan_: you might want to look at poky Oct 21 09:57:23 XorA: oh hi there :) Oct 21 09:57:25 Kensan_: hrw reported similar speedups using udev with their init script changes Oct 21 09:57:53 we lose some feature with mdev :-( Oct 21 09:57:55 XorA: I understand they simply untar /dev or something similar so dev initialization is skiped which cost a lot of time. Oct 21 09:58:14 XorA: ah ic. Yeah I thought udev would be prefered... Oct 21 09:58:23 Kensan: yes, untar then they run udev-trigger for 2 subsystems that still need to be hotplugged Oct 21 09:58:41 Kensan: in my early experiments doing that, I got same time saving as mdev Oct 21 09:58:47 damn dev jungle Oct 21 09:58:53 Kensan_: so poky way is certainly prefereable Oct 21 09:58:54 XorA: the source is here http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/poky/trunk/ right? Oct 21 09:59:10 * raster ponders his notepad widget Oct 21 09:59:12 XorA: right, sounds good. Oct 21 10:00:11 Kensan_: yes that should be it Oct 21 10:00:50 XorA: ok, will take a closer look at it. Do you happen to know what else hrw did to speed up boot time? Oct 21 10:00:50 i confirmed, on neo1937 i have some problem with refresh with Xglamo Oct 21 10:01:08 while with Xfbdev problem with refresh aren't visible Oct 21 10:01:44 Kensan_: no, I was busy with other stuff Oct 21 10:02:39 XorA: ok, I will ask him directly if I need some input :) Oct 21 10:02:50 XorA: thanks for the pointers. Oct 21 10:02:56 Kensan_: no probs Oct 21 10:10:40 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r35cda1825a7c 10/tests/ (test.py tests.conf): Oct 21 10:10:40 freesmartphone.org: tests: Added some tests for gsm Oct 21 10:10:40 freesmartphone.org: this patch also add a way to request manual operations during a test, Oct 21 10:10:40 freesmartphone.org: using the 'operator' object. Oct 21 10:33:15 raster: this is probably proper channel.. but do you happen to know on what basis kernel decides to write to disk from ram? Oct 21 10:33:57 arrr Oct 21 10:34:03 My Qtopia install has gone loco. Oct 21 10:34:23 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rf9b5fe964176 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/trigger.py: Oct 21 10:34:23 freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: Split arguments in DbusTrigger Oct 21 10:34:23 freesmartphone.org: This way we can just match on the first argument of a DBus signal with Oct 21 10:34:23 freesmartphone.org: HasAttr(arg0, "foo") Oct 21 10:35:55 Kred: when its bored Oct 21 10:35:59 after a timeout Oct 21 10:36:04 :D Oct 21 10:36:13 when memory needs to be freed up in cache to make way for other daya form other files or apps Oct 21 10:36:13 Good answer :) Oct 21 10:36:20 or when u call sync() Oct 21 10:36:28 or fsync on the particular file handle Oct 21 10:36:39 So I shouldn't be too much worried about it? Oct 21 10:37:08 u do know tho Oct 21 10:37:17 /tmp is mounted on a volatile fs Oct 21 10:37:30 tmpfs Oct 21 10:37:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMPFS Oct 21 10:37:43 :) Oct 21 10:38:13 so as such... Oct 21 10:38:21 just write to /tmp Oct 21 10:38:25 it ONLY stays in ram Oct 21 10:38:28 :) Oct 21 10:38:41 just remember to clean up the files when done Oct 21 10:38:45 or u keep using ram Oct 21 10:38:50 even after u exit Oct 21 10:39:12 Thanks a lot. That lifts a huge rock from my shoulders Oct 21 10:40:47 even better Oct 21 10:40:56 write it direct to tmpfs as u download Oct 21 10:41:00 mmap() a file in tmpfs Oct 21 10:41:07 and just expand it as u get more data Oct 21 10:41:22 write direct to the mmaped file (or read from socket directly) Oct 21 10:41:26 if its raw image file data Oct 21 10:41:32 then u save to tmpfs with zero-copy Oct 21 10:41:53 but it probably wont make much of a difference compared to the image load/decode overhead Oct 21 10:41:56 or the slowness orf download Oct 21 10:43:18 * flexd_ is choosing a new image to use again Oct 21 10:43:50 basic dialing/sms'ing and somewhat usable battery time is the only requirement atm, anyone have any suggestions? Oct 21 10:46:39 silence suggests buying an iphone.. :P Oct 21 10:48:19 well if all you want is basic dialing, SMS and battery life, I'd recommend getting the cheapest bog standard nokia you can find, not an iphone ;) Oct 21 10:49:55 I already have a FR, i just need a image that *works* Oct 21 10:51:31 an i want a pet leprechaun... Oct 21 11:01:53 i want yo momma Oct 21 11:03:23 XorA: yo Oct 21 11:03:36 * raster pokes XorA Oct 21 11:03:54 * johncylee pokes XorA Oct 21 11:04:39 * CVirus pokes XorA Oct 21 11:04:43 fun.. isn't it? Oct 21 11:04:44 :) Oct 21 11:06:08 * XorA is feeling a bit violated now Oct 21 11:06:33 XorA: libeina changed name to liblomo in july 2007 Oct 21 11:07:52 raster: ah cool, so the name is yours for the taking :-) Oct 21 11:09:41 XorA: yeah. the libeina .bb probably needs renaming to llomo Oct 21 11:09:42 and fixing Oct 21 11:09:43 :) Oct 21 11:11:41 raster: if its borken, just move it to nonworking Oct 21 11:11:48 raster: someone who cares can fix it Oct 21 11:11:53 :) Oct 21 11:11:57 nb Oct 21 11:12:06 at some point u really want to snarf my patches Oct 21 11:12:11 i'm up to 21 of them pending... Oct 21 11:12:12 :) Oct 21 11:12:19 raster: I didnt realise you werent committing them Oct 21 11:12:25 raster: didnt we give you write access? Oct 21 11:14:56 no Oct 21 11:15:05 thats why i have to do my bizarre svn tree thing Oct 21 11:15:10 so i can publish the stuff sanely Oct 21 11:15:11 :) Oct 21 11:15:29 i have fixed for palm kernel builds fo rexample Oct 21 11:15:34 the kernel doesnt build at all without them Oct 21 11:15:39 no one is fixing/maintaing that Oct 21 11:16:01 :) Oct 21 11:18:18 raster: hmm, we should fix that, you should send ssh keys to zecke/mickeyl I think Oct 21 11:19:01 ok Oct 21 11:19:03 will do Oct 21 11:19:06 :) Oct 21 11:19:26 Im not really sure what the new developer policy is now we are on git Oct 21 11:19:40 well it is just the dev branch Oct 21 11:19:54 so i assume that is the playgoind to just commit stuff u are pretty sure is right Oct 21 11:20:01 and that later gets merged into oe stable Oct 21 11:20:08 and its not like you dont have a whole load of commits cherry picked from OM already :-) Oct 21 11:20:21 :) Oct 21 11:20:26 i ned to cherry pick more from om Oct 21 11:20:34 i cant do everything tho Oct 21 11:20:37 thats your job to do that! Oct 21 11:20:38 :) Oct 21 11:25:13 raster: whats still missing, I find it hard to check because FILE_PR in OE obscures all changes :-( Oct 21 11:26:27 yeah Oct 21 11:26:29 i merged that though Oct 21 11:26:32 my patches Oct 21 11:27:07 svn co http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/TMP/oe Oct 21 11:27:09 in patches/ Oct 21 11:27:17 raster: yeah I saw them Oct 21 11:27:24 the aux and power butotn in x is one Oct 21 11:27:33 i htink a lot of kernel stuff tho i havent looked into that Oct 21 11:27:42 in some ways my changes to oe are better Oct 21 11:27:48 i split off x splashscreens into their own package Oct 21 11:27:54 and not part of kdrive-common Oct 21 11:28:54 yeah, definately need to get you OE access :-) Oct 21 11:30:09 i know my way around oe reasonably well now Oct 21 11:30:16 i may do some thigns a bit strangely at times Oct 21 11:30:28 but i do want to just make stuff better Oct 21 11:30:29 :) Oct 21 11:57:35 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r41d30e38d48e 10/tests/ogsmd2.py: tests: Added ogsmd2.py Oct 21 12:16:08 XorA: the kernel config for linux-openmoko should be changed because currently oe has it's own kernel config... Oct 21 12:17:07 Kensan_: I know, the "official" one is in the kernel git, but the FSO guys don't like that one Oct 21 12:17:43 XorA: Andy posted to devel about that: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-October/002722.html Oct 21 12:18:08 XorA: I agree, those configs have unneeded stuff active by default... Oct 21 12:18:21 XorA: I don't know what the FSO don't like about that though. Oct 21 12:19:39 XorA: if I might ask: are you "responsible" to get the OM things merged into oe? Oct 21 12:20:39 Kensan_: kinda Oct 21 12:20:59 Kensan_: I am waiting for a FILE_PR to dissapear in OE, so I can actually see what is missing Oct 21 12:21:12 So, qi is expected to take over uboot.. and 2.6.27 is expected to take over 6.24 Oct 21 12:21:30 XorA: ah I see. Oct 21 12:22:16 Kensan_: but I also have other tasks to take care of in OE Oct 21 12:23:52 XorA: ok. well it's good for me to know, since now I know who to ping if something comes up there :) I am sending my (few) patches to raster atm. Oct 21 12:24:31 XorA: is there a "official" way on how to get a recipe (bb for bootchart-lite by fred chien) into oe? Oct 21 12:24:33 * XorA wonders if he actually has pain killers in the house Oct 21 12:24:48 Kensan_: file a bug in bugs.openembedded.net Oct 21 12:24:59 XorA: ok thanks. Oct 21 12:25:03 will do Oct 21 12:28:23 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r19e4f65a7868 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: Oct 21 12:28:23 freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Report height above mean sea level, not above ellipsoid Oct 21 12:28:23 freesmartphone.org: NMEA height is reported as height above mean sea level, this fixes #188 Oct 21 12:31:50 Does anyone have experience putting their kernel on flash, and their rootfs on sd? Oct 21 12:32:21 I have a gta01 and an 8gb card, and apparently uboot on gta01 won't mmcinit an 8gb card Oct 21 12:45:37 Hello everyone :) Oct 21 12:46:19 hi Oct 21 12:46:52 What is the best filesystem for SDHC card? Only for store data (Mp3, ...), not for booting system. Oct 21 12:47:15 Cervajz: what makes you think there is best? Oct 21 12:47:18 fat32 is the easiest to deal with on pretty much all OSs and devices Oct 21 12:50:02 fat works well unless you have lots of small files or lots of small writes etc Oct 21 12:51:16 I have default Om2008.9 system and I have big problems with my 4GB Kingston card. Oct 21 12:52:21 I don't see my files which I was upload on my notebook Oct 21 12:52:43 I have tried three filesystems (ext3, FAT16 and FAT32) :/ Oct 21 12:56:49 is it a hdsd card? Oct 21 12:56:56 hdsd Oct 21 12:57:48 try formatting it on your phone and not on your computer Oct 21 13:10:30 Hello all :) I updated the testing tree on my freerunner and all the icons disappeared off my 'Home' Oct 21 13:11:11 Anyone else have that problem? Oct 21 13:15:06 Mercury_: everyone does Oct 21 13:18:47 XorA: well, then i do not upgrade. Oct 21 13:19:07 the last time i tried it (two days ago) the phone hanged on the laoding screen of x Oct 21 13:21:42 Hello ,Can anyone tell me how to reset my Neo1973's boot menu to the default one? Oct 21 13:22:18 whats the git command to drag in a directory of patches? Oct 21 13:22:26 * XorA suffers memory loss Oct 21 13:23:43 XorA: Any solutions? Oct 21 13:23:54 Mercury_: dont upgrade Oct 21 13:24:00 hello ,Could anyone tell me the uboot command to reset my neo1973's boot menu to the original one?Is there such an command? Oct 21 13:24:05 XorA: Any OTHER solutions? Oct 21 13:24:16 Mercury_: no, there isnt one Oct 21 13:24:52 Lijian: i think it's the uboot environment you need to reload. Oct 21 13:25:07 Lijian: I don't think there is a standard command Oct 21 13:25:07 Lijian: I just struggled with this same thing last night. Oct 21 13:25:20 Yes ,maybe ,how to? Oct 21 13:25:49 Lijian: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot (Section: What if I borked my bootloader environment and don't get a prompt anymore? ) Oct 21 13:26:10 I can't find a command to reload the environment.Is there one? Oct 21 13:26:15 Lijian: Yes. Oct 21 13:26:31 Lijian: Look at that link I just sent you. It shows you how to use dfu-util to do that. Oct 21 13:27:03 Lijian: There's also one from the serial uboot prompt.. but it sucks.. it puts it back to a totally stripped down blank menu. Oct 21 13:29:14 I can access to the uboot with cu ,but just can't find the right command. Oct 21 13:29:29 Lijian: defaultenv will do it, but don't... because it sucks. Oct 21 13:30:09 Lijian: Use the method I linked you. It also has the advantage of letting you mess with it using a text editor instead of the clunky serial interface. Oct 21 13:30:13 Hmm,and I don't have defaultenv command. Oct 21 13:30:26 Lijian: Ah.. must be on newer u-boots only. Oct 21 13:31:00 Lijian: There's probably a way to load the environment from NOR and then save it to NAND on that prompt.. that's beyond me. Oct 21 13:32:00 So, does anyone know what's wrong with illume in the testing tree? Oct 21 13:32:28 However ,I can change them one by one,manually. Oct 21 13:32:28 I will explore the wiki again.Thanks all you guys. Oct 21 13:33:36 neo1973 - only one flash Oct 21 13:33:46 Lijian Oct 21 13:34:18 ? Oct 21 13:34:25 does opkg support something like --depclean Oct 21 13:40:28 XorA: quiilt? Oct 21 13:41:24 mwester: git-am Oct 21 13:41:31 mwester: the geniusly labelled command Oct 21 13:44:23 * mwester scratches his head and goes to look that command up... Oct 21 13:44:43 git-ApplyMailbox Oct 21 14:05:12 The "Qtopia update for Neo" found here http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=7 doesn't contain a shell script like before,why? Oct 21 14:06:56 has someone an actual svn navit build? Oct 21 14:08:28 And I use the old shell script ,but it leaves me out of the X interface after it's procession. Oct 21 14:26:51 i have a "really dead battery" how can i fix it? Oct 21 14:27:11 without access to a charged battery Oct 21 14:28:47 kdubois: Try plugging it into the wall charger, then do the aux+power thing :) Oct 21 14:28:57 what would be the best kernel to use with fdom? Oct 21 14:28:59 openmoko: 03dp 07org.openmoko.dev * rd6ffba905d1d 10/ (7 files in 2 dirs): [efl] updates from E17 svn courtesy of raster so we can use later SRCREVS Oct 21 14:29:21 leinirAWAY: nothing happens Oct 21 14:29:22 Hey everyone, mind if I ask a few questions about the freerunner? Oct 21 14:29:52 don't ask if you should ask, ask Oct 21 14:30:00 There's interesting buzz after a call Oct 21 14:30:17 Sounds like there's continuous output to the speaker Oct 21 14:30:48 Does anyone else experience this? Oct 21 14:30:49 leinirAWAY: does it have to charge for a while or something? Oct 21 14:30:50 I'm considering getting the freerunner for my birthday, how usable is it at this point? Oct 21 14:30:57 kdubois: Sometimes yeah Oct 21 14:31:15 jhass841: Well, i'm using it as a day-to-day phone with Qt Extended, but your mileage may vary :) Oct 21 14:31:29 this seems like a really dumb hardware bug, "once it runs out of power, you cant charge it" Oct 21 14:31:39 jhass841: when do you have birthday Oct 21 14:31:47 jhass841: I got mine last friday. I'd say it's usable for calling and sms, but it's not a iPhone killer at the moment (will not be for years? :) Oct 21 14:32:06 November 27th (actually, birthday or christmas) Oct 21 14:32:07 Now the buzzing went away Oct 21 14:32:30 in ~2-3 months and it should be usable for anyone Oct 21 14:33:13 I mean I'm a little worried because although I've heard a lot of good things about it, I'm afraid to get it if it won't be a reliable primary phone Oct 21 14:33:28 jhass841: if you have any programming skills then I'd say get one now Oct 21 14:34:08 Well it does seem to eat battery, but if you have a wall socket or usb connection you're good. Oct 21 14:34:48 If you follow the community list you'll see, that there's optimizations going in for boot and battery time Oct 21 14:35:19 I do have programming skills, and that's why I want one. Honestly, how well does it work just as a phone? As in, does it reliably do all of the things a phone should do? I've heard that there's an echo problem when making calls... Oct 21 14:35:21 I changed from HTC S730 to FR last Saturday and I like it :) Oct 21 14:35:42 No, I love it. Oct 21 14:36:17 Because if I get this phone, I'm getting rid of my other phone Oct 21 14:36:22 jhass841: there's definetly audio quality problems. I just 5mins ago made a long call with FR and it's definetly a lot weaker in quality than the HTC one for example Oct 21 14:37:13 Is it awful though, I mean I have a little bit of an echo problem with my current phone sometimes but for the most part the calls come through clearly Oct 21 14:37:56 The last call that I made had no such problem. If you want to make perfect calls, then hold on to your money and wait a month or two. Get a xmas present of it. Oct 21 14:38:43 Is the freerunner your primary phone? Oct 21 14:39:08 If you want to be on the edge (not GPRS) and want to code at the same time, then get it now. But if you must have a phone that simply works, then I'd say this is not for you just yet. I wouldn't buy it for my computer savy friends :) Oct 21 14:39:19 But then again, they don't use Linux.. Windows ppl.. :) Oct 21 14:39:27 It is my primary phone. Oct 21 14:40:04 and you can make calls normally most of the time? Oct 21 14:40:23 Sure! No problems so far. Oct 21 14:40:48 But now I have to run. bbl Oct 21 14:41:02 thank you very much Oct 21 14:41:13 Alright, well I think I'm sold then Oct 21 14:42:01 Thanks a lot everyone, I appreciate your patience. I think I'm gonna go bug the qtopia people for a bit. Oct 21 14:55:32 hi Oct 21 14:55:51 question, is there a camera devices compatible with freerruner? Oct 21 14:59:12 diegows: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Webcam Oct 21 14:59:56 diegows: any random USB webcam that works with Linux in general should work with the FR Oct 21 15:06:25 is pulseaudio needed on om2008.9 or could i disable it? Oct 21 15:06:49 because pulseaudio = waste of resources Oct 21 15:09:38 BobOfDoom: thanks! Oct 21 15:20:15 anyone running fdom? Oct 21 15:37:19 hm, android source Oct 21 15:37:33 and the sites front page lies Oct 21 15:38:44 zash: how does it lie? Oct 21 15:39:29 "Android is the first free, open source, and fully customizable mobile platform." Oct 21 15:39:55 first? Oct 21 15:40:00 ...that actually lets users make phone calls ;) Oct 21 15:40:23 :D Oct 21 15:40:34 cjb_ie: it says that where? Oct 21 15:40:57 they say fully customizable, but not fully free Oct 21 15:42:41 hey, i already have made a call from my fr, and i had not a single problem. Oct 21 15:42:53 nuclear_eclipse: customizable .. for who Oct 21 15:43:04 is it 100% FOSS, as in dalvik as well Oct 21 15:43:10 (or whatever that is) Oct 21 15:46:07 Sup3rkiddo: I don't think much of it is OSS yet Oct 21 15:46:34 get source, steal good parts .. profit Oct 21 15:47:35 wurp2|working, ah ok Oct 21 15:47:36 http://android.kernel.org/?p=platform/dalvik.git;a=summary Oct 21 15:48:19 Sup3rkiddo: wow! Oct 21 15:48:43 That's the first actual open source I've seen from Android Oct 21 15:49:41 the code is under apache 2.0 license if it matters Oct 21 15:49:55 wurp2|working: http://source.android.com/ Oct 21 15:50:00 they just released everything Oct 21 15:50:12 summatusmentis, ola Oct 21 15:50:17 hi Sup3rkiddo Oct 21 15:51:13 summatusmentis: everything? Oct 21 15:51:17 i don't think so Oct 21 15:51:49 i bet the parts for branding and locking down are closed after all Oct 21 15:52:33 bumbl: http://source.android.com/projects Oct 21 15:53:12 seems like a whole lot of source to me... Oct 21 15:54:21 summatusmentis: Yeah, I just read that, fucking awesome Oct 21 15:54:26 Who's porting it to neo? Oct 21 15:54:48 http://source.android.com/ Oct 21 15:55:01 wurp2|working: if I had time and a neo, I would Oct 21 15:55:01 who's porting dalvik vm to openmoko, so we can run their apps, but they cant run ours? Oct 21 15:55:19 * mwester wonders why so many people are freaking out over android right now. *sigh* Oct 21 15:56:24 it seems as koolu will ship it Oct 21 15:56:39 mwester: android works on the htc Oct 21 15:56:53 mwester_: 'cause they just opened it, and we expect it to work better than the OM stuff? Oct 21 15:57:00 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rec176497bb6a 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py: ogpsd: Fix aiding data time generation bug (time.time honors DST flag) Oct 21 15:57:00 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rfcf5855bfa6b 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py: ogpsd: Don't send ephemeris since this seriously screws up the GPS chip Oct 21 15:58:23 ok Oct 21 15:58:34 now when will android be available for the fr? Oct 21 15:59:03 wurp2|working: Koolu as far as I know Oct 21 16:00:04 tomboy64: screw that, om on g1 Oct 21 16:00:06 Kensan_: Koolu is working on a port? Oct 21 16:00:26 Yeah, I care more about the g1 Oct 21 16:00:29 wurp2|working: yes, as far as I know. Oct 21 16:00:31 since I have one Oct 21 16:00:35 that's great news Oct 21 16:00:52 wurp2|working: koolu wrote that they will ship freerunners with android in november Oct 21 16:00:55 wurp2|working: you have a g1? :( Oct 21 16:01:11 Yeah Oct 21 16:01:14 wurp2|working: afaik there's alreadby been sucess with the kernel since that source has already been available Oct 21 16:01:17 Wow, I'm out of the news loop Oct 21 16:01:27 gotta go for a while Oct 21 16:03:38 what's g1? Oct 21 16:03:55 tomboy64: the tmobile htc android phone Oct 21 16:04:11 :-D Oct 21 16:04:13 ahh Oct 21 16:05:01 wurp2|working: ;) When -- and the most important part: IF -- someone actually gets the android sources to run in any fashion at all on the Neo, THEN I'll do something other than yawn about the google sources. I'm just suffering from too may empty promises when it comes to the Om hardware. Oct 21 16:05:24 :) Oct 21 16:06:15 mwester: koolu seems to have ported the kernel specifica already. I believe they are quite serious about the port... we will see. Oct 21 16:08:03 wurp2|working: I am porting it to FR. Oct 21 16:08:05 full linux freedomness vs sandboxed java vm Oct 21 16:09:04 bricode: what is the state of the porting? Oct 21 16:09:16 bricode: busy days ahead ;) Oct 21 16:11:27 Kensan_: Indeed. Oct 21 16:11:36 Hire: Working kernel. Oct 21 16:15:45 Kensan_: So I assume that means that they have solved the GSM problems, and that they have a solution to the WSoD as well? ;) Oct 21 16:16:09 mwester: hehe no. That's not part of porting, that would still lie with OM to fix :( Oct 21 16:16:32 * mwester wishes people would focus on the fact that no amount of good intentions or user space software will fix Om's broken hardware, and that's the blocking issue right now. Oct 21 16:17:21 Add to that the observation that the only person at Om who HAS been working on the WSoD problem seems to be doing nothing but Qi and bootloader stuff for the GTA03. Oct 21 16:18:00 Somebody at Om needs to PROVE that the GTA02 isn't going to end up just like the GTA01 -- abandoned and left to the community. :( Oct 21 16:18:11 mwester: Isn't Harald going to look into Wsod? Judging by Werner's mail it *seems* that there's some move on the subject of gsm but who knows... Oct 21 16:18:38 Kensan_: who shipped their broken GTA02 to Harald, then? Oct 21 16:18:52 mwester: yeah, I don't understand, why they are pushing GTA03 that much... I though it was "back to basics". Oct 21 16:19:22 mwester: Wasn't he going to meet up with mickey and the gang? Oct 21 16:19:35 Last I saw, Harald was asking for a broken GTA02 so that he could take a look. I will volunteer to send my working one to whomever sends a busted on to Harald. Oct 21 16:19:37 mwester: yeah it seems as if om more or less dropped the freerunner but swisscom is doing a good job Oct 21 16:20:18 bumbl: well let's not go that far to say that they dropped it. But they should follow through with what they announce (weekly engineering news 41)... Oct 21 16:20:58 bumbl: and swisscom's commitment only goes that far... Oct 21 16:21:28 swisscom's access to documents and Om's suppliers also only goes so far. Oct 21 16:21:33 Kensan_: communism was not good at all but the openmoko software department should adopt a kind of "ten years plan" which guids them to stable software for the freerunner Oct 21 16:21:54 bumbl: huh? ;) Oct 21 16:22:16 bumbl: The problem is that Om lacks certain fundamental software engineering disciplines that even the smallest startup usually contracts or hires to get. Oct 21 16:22:24 bumbl: they should start actually paying attention to the community... everything is there but they need to actually move into the right direction. Oct 21 16:22:36 mwester: yeah that's what i mean Oct 21 16:22:36 the soviet stuff was not communism, only a really poor attempt at it Oct 21 16:22:55 same for cuba and china. you can flame me now ;-P Oct 21 16:23:02 No ten year plan needed, just common sense and someone who has read things like the mythical man-month and other industry texts! Even better if they had someone who actually did basic software management. Oct 21 16:24:06 * mwester is done with complaining for today, and goes to look for some good news... ... somewhere. Oct 21 16:24:07 so who wants to port this? http://android.kernel.org/ Oct 21 16:24:18 * mwester groans again. Oct 21 16:24:34 toggles_w: what would that fix? Oct 21 16:24:35 heh Oct 21 16:24:40 oh, crap.. my windows was stuck Oct 21 16:24:50 are you hiring or something? Oct 21 16:25:03 lol, no, but nice try Oct 21 16:25:06 Ooh! that would be good news. Oct 21 16:25:07 have you seen "airpwn"? Oct 21 16:25:21 or something wait it was "neopwn" Oct 21 16:25:30 I don't even look at projects or web sites that can't spell. Oct 21 16:25:40 Especially the cracking ones. Oct 21 16:25:41 basicly just backtrack compiled for the openmoko Oct 21 16:26:00 and the butthead is charging for it Oct 21 16:26:15 mwester: hmm penetration testing is nice Oct 21 16:26:22 * mwester is "amazed" at just how many people are "Pen testers" these days. Oct 21 16:26:28 heh Oct 21 16:26:32 I believe they can't do wireless testing because of no raw-mode? Oct 21 16:26:47 yeah just like since 9-11 everyone gets a say about "security" Oct 21 16:27:05 Shouldn't be a single site anywhere that is insecure, since every pimple-faced kid on the streen with a laptop is a fully-qualified professional who is not cracking networks, he's doing pen testing. Oct 21 16:27:05 i am not a "pen tester" - but i tried to get into my own wlan a while ago Oct 21 16:27:19 that makes you a pen tester Oct 21 16:27:28 vinicius, they can, cause they use an external wifi dongle Oct 21 16:27:29 heres your certificate Oct 21 16:27:32 vinicius: they use an external wifi chip Oct 21 16:27:38 oh Oct 21 16:27:51 my wlan seems to be save - brute forcing a wpa key >20 characters length takes ages Oct 21 16:28:03 * kd8ikt wipes his butt then brandishes the "certificate" Oct 21 16:28:29 my wlan is open ;) hack that :P Oct 21 16:28:48 kd8ikt: too much law insecurities here Oct 21 16:28:49 Well, I'm an pen-tester-tester -- I test to see if pen-testers can resist my testing with items such as baseball bats. Park outside my house with your laptop or FR... Oct 21 16:29:05 lol Oct 21 16:29:39 yeah hook up your firealarms to a script that detects changes in the dhclient table Oct 21 16:30:09 Honestly, it's the script kiddies and juviniles like that who give Lunix hackers a bad name in the industry. Oct 21 16:31:03 mwester, hey, i am pimple faced! ;o Oct 21 16:31:25 Do you break into other peoples networks too? Oct 21 16:31:48 mwester, noooo Oct 21 16:31:57 Well, good, then I can talk to you! Oct 21 16:31:58 :) Oct 21 16:32:42 you know my linksys openwrt router now uses opkg Oct 21 16:32:47 mwester, does innocently stealing neighbours' wifi count? Oct 21 16:33:10 depends on how "innoccent" :p Oct 21 16:33:23 "innocently stealing"?! heh. Oct 21 16:33:23 * mwester clearly cannot spell. Oct 21 16:33:30 i kinda hate the "rebranding" of ipkg Oct 21 16:33:44 kd8ikt: yah, welcome to the land of trademarks Oct 21 16:33:46 kd8ikt: Yeah, politics in the linux world is alive and well. Oct 21 16:34:20 it is a bit of a pain, but you can just symlink opkg to ipkg and forget about it. Oct 21 16:34:21 mwester: alive? overhealthy Oct 21 16:34:23 What I find sad is that opkg is just as poor as ipkg ever was, and adding certificates only made it worse, not better. Oct 21 16:34:35 but on a lighter side both my phone and openwrt router now use opkg so... a success in a sense being i wanted one inbetween both... just not opkg ;) Oct 21 16:34:45 bumbl: I see your point :) Oct 21 16:35:04 mwester: that is sad, but not entirely surprising. I think the opkg codebase is still 95% identical to the old ipkg sources. Oct 21 16:35:09 yeah i hate that certificate crap Oct 21 16:35:54 why the hell are they using ipkg/opkg at all - there are tons of good package managers (even for low res) out there Oct 21 16:36:13 bumbl: just start using something else? Oct 21 16:36:14 blah blah checksum mismatch.. maybe you should "opkg update"? Oct 21 16:36:37 lindi-: how? all the repos contain .ipks Oct 21 16:36:47 ugh maybe you should execute the cmd i told you to!? Oct 21 16:36:57 except debian Oct 21 16:37:05 and debian is too bloated for a phone Oct 21 16:37:20 bumbl: well create your own? Oct 21 16:37:38 well, it would be easy enough to rebuild the repo for a different package format if necessary. Oct 21 16:37:42 what package manager would you propose? Oct 21 16:39:13 mwester: well the meaning of hacker has long been lost and beaten to death by the media *sigh* Oct 21 16:39:35 True. Connotations... Oct 21 16:39:55 mwester is a real haX0r Oct 21 16:40:00 But as a community we don't do ourselves any favors; the Linux community could use a good PR agent. Oct 21 16:40:09 And spelling like that has GOT to go! Oct 21 16:40:11 :O Oct 21 16:41:04 What is that, and where did that start, and most importantly, WHY do certain people continue to do that??? "I'm l33t!" <-- No, that's not -- that's just juvinile and foolish! Oct 21 16:41:09 mwester: true... well everybody seems be an expert in FOSS etc. as long as you have installed Openoffice your in! Oct 21 16:41:12 :( Oct 21 16:42:20 * Kensan_ should get back his white-orange Neo1973... Oct 21 16:42:21 on a lighter offtopic note i compiled the latest openwrt svn for my Wrt54GS and the b43 driver works! pretty good exccept for all the logs it produces Oct 21 16:42:36 native driver? Oct 21 16:42:44 2.6 kernel yup Oct 21 16:42:44 or Linksys driver? Oct 21 16:42:48 Ah Oct 21 16:42:54 I had no luck with that at all. Oct 21 16:43:03 broadcom b43 (not the proprietary thingy) Oct 21 16:43:45 But since I did pick up a bundle of three Intel wireless cards on eBay for a ridiculous price, I just tossed the broadcom cards in my laptop, and that fixed that part. So I only have the broadcom stuff in my router. Oct 21 16:43:52 have to run. Oct 21 16:44:07 Yeah, me too -- appointment with client in 16 minutes. Oct 21 16:44:11 Best prepare. Oct 21 16:44:12 lindi-: give me a server with enough bandwith and power - i have time next week Oct 21 16:45:52 one question, how good works openmoko installed on a Motorola A1200 phone? Oct 21 16:46:11 there is a link, but its a about an old version Oct 21 16:46:28 pb__: apt, pacman, emerge + binhost - all better than opkg Oct 21 16:47:37 apt should pretty much "just work" with the existing ipk repos, no need to rebuild. Oct 21 16:47:53 bumbl: hardly. opkg is very similar to apt. Oct 21 16:48:33 but, apt is significantly heavier than opkg. it's basically just a tradeoff between resources and number of bugs, the underlying behaviour is roughly the same in both cases. Oct 21 16:48:33 d-b: opkg lacks some features apt has Oct 21 16:48:49 bumbl: yes. but if you want debian on your phone. run debian. Oct 21 16:48:52 at least apt is well documented Oct 21 16:49:02 d-b: but i don't want debian on my phone Oct 21 16:49:13 i just want a sane package manager Oct 21 16:49:21 bumbl: that is what debian provides. Oct 21 16:49:36 its not the package manager its how its being used here i think. Oct 21 16:49:37 well, like I say, if you want to use apt, you should be able to go ahead and do that right away. Oct 21 16:49:54 even the status file formats are basically the same so you should be able to have apt inherit your current opkg status. Oct 21 16:50:12 How should I wake my FR up? If I don't use it for a while it seems like it turns off and the screen and aux button do nothing. Oct 21 16:50:19 It's plugged into the wall so I know it has power. Oct 21 16:50:49 esthar: hope it turns on otherwise you will need to find an old nokia / other battery / method to kick start it. Oct 21 16:51:11 d-b: well the power button works Oct 21 16:51:20 It's just that I have to shut it off Oct 21 16:51:26 then restart from scratch Oct 21 16:51:33 I left it on, overnight, plugged into the wall for power Oct 21 16:51:44 mmm. om2008 ? Oct 21 16:51:46 bumbl: if you wanted to use pacman then that should be pretty straightforward too, you'd just need to rebuild the repositories in the right format. Oct 21 16:51:46 then in the morning it's off or in a state where I need to boot it up from scratch again Oct 21 16:51:49 FDOM Oct 21 16:51:53 no idea. Oct 21 16:51:55 so 2008.9 kernel Oct 21 16:52:23 i assume its the power button. Oct 21 16:52:31 for a short period of time. Oct 21 16:52:56 bumbl: sounds like bloat, i can develop debian without that :) Oct 21 16:54:44 * d-b debian has nearly all the software you want ever. just not made for the phone format really so its not ideal in some respects. in others its fine. Oct 21 16:55:27 there is no point in making a wide repo of sources if there are already some out there in a perfectly working order with a sane package manager as you put it. Oct 21 16:56:39 debian lacks e and illume - debian lacks daily builds - but debian on the freerunner is extremly interesting Oct 21 16:56:53 if you use the neo as a pda Oct 21 16:57:32 esthar: um lacks e ? yes and no. e17 ? (it has real e). illume yes it lacks daily builds lacks. makes phone calls tick sms tick address book tick. voip tick. Oct 21 16:59:51 lindi-: however, my alsa settings are now for voip and so the echo is crazy :) Oct 21 17:06:24 osip? Oct 21 17:07:49 how do you launch apps in debian/freerunner ? Oct 21 17:08:32 nyu: um. via xfce i guess / other means. Oct 21 17:08:51 you just install xfce and that's it? Oct 21 17:12:09 nyu: you would launch apps in debian/freerunner the same way you would launch apps in a typical debian installation on a desktop system Oct 21 17:12:26 you use a desktop environment with menus, or you use a terminal, etc Oct 21 17:19:21 i know it's early, but has anyone started trying to get android running on the freerunner? Oct 21 17:20:13 bumbl said kooly was on it Oct 21 17:20:16 *kooly Oct 21 17:20:19 *koolu Oct 21 17:24:24 rmblr: koolu will ship their freerunners with android in november Oct 21 17:27:24 bumbl: i'd like to get it running myself before then... does anyone know how much porting has to be done? Oct 21 17:27:35 ezekiel-v3: which desktop envs are well suited to the 480x640 constraint? Oct 21 17:27:38 rmblr: kernel Oct 21 17:27:41 will koolu be releasing their source changes back to google? Oct 21 17:27:50 bumbl: just drivers though, right? Oct 21 17:27:58 yes Oct 21 17:28:12 android kernel + om drivers i think Oct 21 17:28:15 other question, is android really free? Oct 21 17:28:21 the rest of the sources was released today Oct 21 17:28:44 nicfer: android is gpl (kernel) and apache (rest) Oct 21 17:29:43 bumbl: yes but will it run at a decent speed. Oct 21 17:30:02 d-b: don't ask me - ask koolu Oct 21 17:30:14 armv4 vs. armv5 Oct 21 17:30:17 bumbl: i just think the answer is going to be no. Oct 21 17:30:19 bumbl: do you think koolu will release their kernel patches before they start selling the freerunner's w/ android? Oct 21 17:30:25 I've heard that google were doing some nasty moves like being able to uninstall your apps remotely Oct 21 17:30:38 nicfer: only to their only apps. Oct 21 17:30:39 rmblr: i don't know Oct 21 17:31:01 http://www.efactusa.com http://www.greatestate.com http://www.cyberoppression.org http://www.westonmass.net Oct 21 17:31:08 spam Oct 21 17:31:08 nyu: xfce is one of them Oct 21 17:31:09 I'm all about the symbian Oct 21 17:31:52 hmmm, how's that? Only apps developed by google? Oct 21 17:32:56 it would only be devices running their core, give me the ability to reflash the device i remove the remote hooks Oct 21 17:33:49 TOGGLES Oct 21 17:34:01 Dave: !! Oct 21 17:34:46 Which mobile phones have the same displaysize as the FR? Oct 21 17:35:19 phobie: VGA or 2.8" ? Oct 21 17:35:38 size not resultion Oct 21 17:36:08 (for display protection) Oct 21 17:37:02 43mm x 58mm Oct 21 17:37:22 2,8" could also mean something else Oct 21 17:37:31 I'll wait until expandible phones before I change mine Oct 21 17:37:44 phobie: i went to screenguardz and had them cut 44x58 and it's slightly small Oct 21 17:38:04 rmblr: you could ask bricode about android port. Oct 21 17:38:07 any uber-hackers willing to take on the porting duties? http://source.android.com/posts/opensource Oct 21 17:38:19 beat me to it.. Oct 21 17:38:52 jebus, this is probably going to get worse. I can hear mwester scream inside *hehe* Oct 21 17:39:53 Kensan: bricode is involved with koolu? Oct 21 17:39:58 rmblr: yes. Oct 21 17:39:59 I think it's slightly ingenuous of google to hold it closed source until the Tmobile phone hit the market, then say "olly-olly oxenfree" and start asking for people to develop apps Oct 21 17:40:08 For the record, Koolu will be releasing the kernel source (and perhaps integrating it into the OM tree) as well as pushing fixes back to Google. Oct 21 17:40:23 cthulhu? Oct 21 17:40:44 ingenuous, disingenious, same same Oct 21 17:40:56 bricode: will the kernel patches be released before koolu starts selling androidized freerunners? Oct 21 17:40:56 toggles - screenguardz? is that what they sell on the street now? Oct 21 17:41:12 rmblr: That's a requirement, yes. Oct 21 17:41:18 BRIAN Oct 21 17:41:26 I'm in the process of setting up a public git with the patched OM kernel. Oct 21 17:41:39 awesome Oct 21 17:41:41 Oh, are we talking about Android here? Oct 21 17:41:44 Dave: DAVE! My time has come... Oct 21 17:42:00 We wish... Oct 21 17:42:10 Dave: http://screenguardz.com Oct 21 17:42:16 * rmblr wonders how easy it will be to walk into a provider's store and get a sim card for his freerunner Oct 21 17:43:16 rmblr: most countries it's the norm to be able to buy a sim card from any cellco Oct 21 17:43:26 rmblr: easy as pie, unless you live in the UK and need a passport and a DNA sample Oct 21 17:43:27 toggles, is that like warez? Oct 21 17:43:34 * rmblr is in the usa Oct 21 17:43:45 no, i just like printing it so mwester screams Oct 21 17:43:50 yeah sim cards are essentially hax in the us Oct 21 17:43:57 actually they were fairly cheap and decent covers Oct 21 17:44:05 hi Oct 21 17:44:13 Hallo Germany Oct 21 17:44:27 as i have seen with the freerunner you use a comparatively cheap wolfson codec Oct 21 17:44:48 now you have disassembled the iphone 3g and have found that the audio codec costs 2$ there Oct 21 17:45:44 maybe you could try to get the audio quality of the gta03 as good as the iphone/ipod/cowon please! Oct 21 17:45:56 heh Oct 21 17:46:29 it'd probably be great quality (potentially), but we couldn't hear them because the audio was set too low, and they would still not be able to hear us because of echo and/or lack of microphone gain. Oct 21 17:46:33 * Dave laughs Oct 21 17:46:58 i definetly would like to get rid of all the fluctuant and expensive toys (not want to buy another mp3 player) Oct 21 17:47:09 try to get an audio codec with vorbis en/decoding capabilities Oct 21 17:47:13 Dave, you mean the iphone chip is not working in openmoko? Oct 21 17:47:25 I'm knocking the freerunner for known issues. Oct 21 17:47:36 nicfer, i guess the phone has the power to decode in cpu hasn't it? Oct 21 17:47:41 and how they'll never go away, because freerunner (OM) development is hilarious. Oct 21 17:47:56 weiles: yes but not the battery Oct 21 17:48:15 sicu, I challenge you to more openmoocow! Oct 21 17:48:26 hmm ok Oct 21 17:48:27 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r8ceac3fe112d 10/fsod/ (README autogen.sh configure.ac vapi/fsod.vapi): Cleanup autogen.sh and check for python in configure script Oct 21 17:48:28 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r794393e44598 10/fsod/m4/python.m4: Add python.m4 Oct 21 17:48:55 maybe but a bit of audiophile enthusiasm could give the phone a broader range and make it much more a replacement for all those guys investing a few hundred bucks only for a decent mp3 player+touch screen Oct 21 17:49:32 and is the FR's CPU capable of decoding theora video? Oct 21 17:49:39 true, true Oct 21 17:49:40 The problem with the audio quality on the Freerunner is about USD 0.05 worth of capacitor and resistor. Oct 21 17:49:43 we need a media player app too Oct 21 17:49:50 mwester, haha :D Oct 21 17:50:01 Also, it's been how many years? and we still have ... what? Oct 21 17:50:31 now since you can really measure the quality of the audio output and you have all that equipment in your labs you could spend some time into get this rocking which would give the phone a great value Oct 21 17:50:44 mwester, but it shows that nobody cared during development Oct 21 17:50:49 I don't have a lab yet Oct 21 17:50:49 Yeah, Jeorg identified the bad component values almost a year ago or so, I think? But nobody in Om's manufacturing ever changed the parts. Oct 21 17:50:57 Right Oct 21 17:51:15 Makes me want to strangle someone, when issues like this are reiterated. Oct 21 17:51:27 and the iphone is not so much about phoning but about great multimedia capabilities and it is almost an ipod touch Oct 21 17:51:34 so this is important not only to me Oct 21 17:51:46 Dave, me too :( Oct 21 17:52:00 The funny/sad part, Dave, is all the folks who seem to think that Android on the FR will somehow fix all this. Oct 21 17:52:06 I think I'll plan a trip to taiwan and Joerg and I will produce our own spinoff model. Oct 21 17:52:11 Mwester - hahaha Oct 21 17:52:14 I scoff at them! Oct 21 17:52:15 "Android installer: Detecting Freerunner." Oct 21 17:52:16 i am now stuck with my e61 and don't want to spend that much money for the freerunner although the e61 is horrible with its audio quality Oct 21 17:52:28 and an mp3 player costs another 70-100€ Oct 21 17:52:43 "Android Installer: Unsoldering bad chips and replacing them (please place phone on a non-flammable surface, and press any key to continue..." Oct 21 17:52:58 :D Oct 21 17:53:04 ^^ Oct 21 17:53:13 basically Oct 21 17:53:13 an spinoff of FreeRunner would sure help more than irc bashing Oct 21 17:53:17 *a Oct 21 17:53:35 vinicius_, why is a spinoff necessary to get a 2$ part right? Oct 21 17:53:45 and a spinoff wouldn't help with the software either Oct 21 17:54:04 chatting will not do that either Oct 21 17:54:24 vinicius_: So what do you suggest? Talking to Om doesn't seem to work. Oct 21 17:54:24 vinicius_, i'll spend the money to buy a device, this should be enough Oct 21 17:54:26 weiles, because it's not just that! Oct 21 17:54:31 Mwester, indeed! Oct 21 17:55:19 I suggest a more engineering approach to it Oct 21 17:55:29 and i might think about porting some apps i need over to it, but you cannot expect to get a diploma in electro technics just because you want the audio chip fixed Oct 21 17:55:35 vinicius_: please elaborate? Oct 21 17:55:43 weiles: i personally hate it using the phone as mp3 player Oct 21 17:55:47 I suggest voting the current OM team designers off the island. Oct 21 17:55:56 i have my cowon flac player and am happy with it Oct 21 17:56:03 a phone is for phoning and gps Oct 21 17:56:10 anyone ported android to the openmoko yet? Oct 21 17:56:15 mattl - haha Oct 21 17:56:22 * Dave rolls his eyes at mattl Oct 21 17:56:25 come on! it's been like... 4 hours! Oct 21 17:56:28 bumbl if you compare the hardware you have 95 double the hardware and double the price Oct 21 17:56:28 mattl: yes -- see the log messages from the installer that I posted a few lines above. Oct 21 17:56:32 haha Oct 21 17:56:40 * Dave smirks at mwester Oct 21 17:56:48 evaluate options, gather resource and implement the solution Oct 21 17:56:49 mwester: i'll get my soldering gun now. Oct 21 17:56:56 As soon as my phone cools down, I'll power it up and see if the new GSM chip works. Oct 21 17:57:13 Mwester ;D Oct 21 17:57:17 bumbl, phone is only an oldschool name Oct 21 17:57:24 vinicius - yes! Oct 21 17:57:31 If talking to OM doesn't help, why babbling on irc would? Oct 21 17:57:34 weiles - what do you want, smartphone? Oct 21 17:57:37 call it portable multimedia device and you are ok with all the stuff the iphone does Oct 21 17:57:48 Vinicius, we can form our own group and make it cooler than theirs! Oct 21 17:57:52 nyah! :P Oct 21 17:57:54 Dave, play *.mp3, *.ogg *flac Oct 21 17:57:58 wiles, I think that's somewhat blasphemous Oct 21 17:58:10 weiles: might be oldschool but it's british english Oct 21 17:58:10 Dave, why? Oct 21 17:58:11 vinicius_: You're right. We should all say nothing then, and go away with our non-functioning phones, and leave you on the channel to talk to yourself. Oct 21 17:58:13 Dave: I hope you have some chinese proverb to sell =P Oct 21 17:58:14 I would not consider any of the devices out there presently that are also phones to be multimedia devices Oct 21 17:58:28 Vinicius, why, in fact I do :D Oct 21 17:58:31 mwester: sounds like an idea! just kidding ;) Oct 21 17:58:39 has gsm chip == phone Oct 21 17:58:47 non-functional gsm chip? Oct 21 17:58:51 then what does it make it? Oct 21 17:58:53 vinicius_: I don't think you know the history with Om. Oct 21 17:58:54 bumbl, i just want to point out that the minimalistic functionalistic approach being tight to a name is something one can rethink in respect to current hardware capabilities Oct 21 17:58:55 a piece of crap? Oct 21 17:59:00 a signal jammer? :D Oct 21 17:59:09 it's already proven to be someone useful in that sense. Oct 21 17:59:12 Dave: non-functional gsm chip == freerunner Oct 21 17:59:17 an em-distorter Oct 21 17:59:18 The gps thingies work nice Oct 21 17:59:18 haha Oct 21 17:59:21 hot Oct 21 17:59:23 oh,lol Oct 21 17:59:38 mwester: I'll possibly get grumpy in 2 days (after paying customs and getting my freerunner), just wait and I might join you guys =D Oct 21 17:59:54 Vinicius: one of us, ONE OF US!! Oct 21 17:59:54 Ah, understand then. Oct 21 17:59:58 * Dave chants Oct 21 18:00:06 Dave why is this blasphemous? Oct 21 18:00:08 vinicius_ -- good luck. Oct 21 18:00:30 because I don't believe you could in any way call MOST smartphones multimedia devices Oct 21 18:00:41 since they barely function at those features (if they even support them) Oct 21 18:00:54 but that's a rant/sermon for another time :] :p Oct 21 18:01:09 * Dave eyes mwester Oct 21 18:01:15 and: Oct 21 18:01:18 i am really happy with foss software on all of my computers but i have to spend a hell lot of money to get some good mobile devices just to get recent applications/software flexibility and sound quality Oct 21 18:01:26 Will you be writing another entry for your "website" soon, MWester? :) Oct 21 18:01:47 It's just that I don't think complaining in irc will solve it. Unless you create a competitor company and do bad PR to sell more of your devices, but I don't see you guys with a company. =P Oct 21 18:01:50 Dave, well i'd like to have a good sound chip in the freerunner so it has the value of spending a few hundred bucks for me Oct 21 18:01:57 if not support_flac/ogg == true: fail Oct 21 18:01:59 weiles, mobile anything sucks, big time. and it's unlikely to ever change any time soon. especially in the US Oct 21 18:02:09 after reading all of your comments about FR, i guess i am staying away for now Oct 21 18:02:14 where they providers enjoy tentacle raping all their customers. Oct 21 18:02:15 not a multimedia device Oct 21 18:02:27 vinicius_, than in what aspect is openmoko more open the process you describe, the commercial one? Oct 21 18:02:28 bumble, use the ternary operator! Oct 21 18:02:41 Weiles, I totally agree with your original statement. Oct 21 18:03:15 openpandora + dvi would be perfect Oct 21 18:03:21 and honestly, the freerunner is a better multimedia device than most. it's funny because the sad part is that my tinier cellphone from 3 years earlier has better video playback :p Oct 21 18:03:31 but blame the glamo on that, I suppose. and lack of drivers Oct 21 18:03:43 bumble, woohoo Oct 21 18:03:50 weiles: I don't see other cellphones companies giving insight into parts/process/etc. Oct 21 18:03:56 Dave, thx Oct 21 18:04:21 vinicius_, yes but insight only makes sense if their is way to give feedback Oct 21 18:04:21 I believe OM should use the apple approach for development until they get a solid device Oct 21 18:04:25 the freerunner makes a decent image device, since it's got a great screen Oct 21 18:04:36 that's about it... in the multimedia department :P Oct 21 18:04:37 weiles: there is some, but you have compromises Oct 21 18:04:42 vinicius_, for software it is foss, but for hardware there is not much more an average tech guy can do than comment Oct 21 18:04:49 what the hell, I'm not going to defend OM without having inside info Oct 21 18:05:11 but it's the best you can get, unless someone creates a more open company Oct 21 18:05:14 vinicius_: neither do we see any other product manufacturer drop support for a product before it ever works as it was originally designed (Neo), and continue to ignore the obvious fatal flaws with the replacement device (FR). Oct 21 18:05:17 Dave: What's multi about that. :) Oct 21 18:05:19 ? Oct 21 18:05:37 vinicius_, well symbian is stable, i wouldn't run linux/openbsd if they would be unstable and unable to do tcp Oct 21 18:05:55 weiles: best in the open sense =P Oct 21 18:05:58 anyway: why doesn't openmoko use the same cpu as the openpandora Oct 21 18:06:00 GTA03's camera should be on front side, so it can be used also as a webcam if an high speed connection is available (currently only wifi) Oct 21 18:06:07 it's quite powerful Oct 21 18:06:17 vinicius_, sure and i hope gta03 + good software gets better Oct 21 18:06:23 gta03, when? Oct 21 18:06:35 but for that i personally (and most likely many others) would like to have good sound quality Oct 21 18:06:42 ahoi Oct 21 18:06:46 I hope gta03 takes a lot more to release Oct 21 18:06:59 because gta02 will possibly have the same fate of gta01 =P Oct 21 18:07:07 should i buy gta02 now or wait for gta03 and be bored? Oct 21 18:07:28 that would depend when gta03 will be released? Oct 21 18:07:30 I hope they test the basic parts of the gta03 before they sell it, but even so what we already know about it, it has one major flaw already designed in (the same broken PMU chip as the GTA02) Oct 21 18:07:39 i hope gta02 does not die like 01 Oct 21 18:07:41 zash, no idea, but if it does not get better then i will not buy it either, really not Oct 21 18:08:04 GTA03 should be ready by christmas. Maybe '09, maybe '10 ;) Oct 21 18:08:17 hehe, that's nice Oct 21 18:08:34 maybe 09 or 10, but definitely by christmaz Oct 21 18:08:41 Yeah, right. Oct 21 18:08:59 i can even live with not having hdspa although it would be really amazing, but getting no sound and having to buy another mp3 player + carrying it is stupid for me Oct 21 18:09:11 :D And originally, the Om software stack and the GTA02 were going to be ready for the average consumer by Christmas of 2007 Oct 21 18:09:16 I heard they're bundling GTA03 with Duke Nukem Forever Oct 21 18:09:20 hehe Oct 21 18:09:31 CVirus: yeah and they switched to gnu hurd Oct 21 18:09:36 well ok now i have yelled enough hopefully the future brings better openmoko products Oct 21 18:09:49 weiles: I hope so too. Oct 21 18:09:58 LOL Oct 21 18:10:04 CVirus, that could be entry line of OM marketing ;) Oct 21 18:10:20 Because they can't possibly survive if they continue to manufacture devices that cannot register with the cellular phone network. Oct 21 18:10:21 bumbl: what do you mean by gnu herd? they still have qtopia, no? Oct 21 18:10:46 zouzou: is that question serious? Oct 21 18:10:52 yes Oct 21 18:11:04 Is it possible to use the 2007 multitap pad on 2008.8? Oct 21 18:11:26 nicfer: SWIVEL! (re: camera) Oct 21 18:11:32 gnu hurd = microkernel = alternative to linux kernel = is always said to get usable/released next year Oct 21 18:11:36 maybe now that nokia will release symbian under epl and deliver qt on top of it this will raise the pressure Oct 21 18:11:44 Man, I fear the gta03 will be vaporware Oct 21 18:11:46 zouzou: yes they use qtopia at the moment Oct 21 18:11:57 Also, I hope there is a regime change before that happens. Oct 21 18:12:05 they will switch to freesmartphone.org and tichy + paroli Oct 21 18:12:45 bumbl: They've tried every other software stack so far. I wonder when they will figure out that it's not JUST the software that's the problem, maybe they should fix the hardware or the kernel instead. Oct 21 18:12:46 bumbl: is that a bad thing? i mean switching to freesmartphone.org? Oct 21 18:12:47 Dave: don't think so, OM company only makes profit from selling devices so far, iiuc Oct 21 18:12:55 zouzou: not at all Oct 21 18:12:55 by the way is gsm now working reliably on fr? does the phone still crash or is telephony safe? Oct 21 18:13:06 they suck Oct 21 18:13:21 Dave, :-( Oct 21 18:13:22 weiles: No, telephony is still broken for many people, for unknown root causes. Oct 21 18:13:39 mwester - indeed Oct 21 18:13:47 mwester: that's scary Oct 21 18:13:49 mwester - likely too many root causes ~_~ Oct 21 18:14:02 or rather, more than one. Oct 21 18:14:27 i am really wonderung what the true target of openmoko is. it looks a bit more like an industry platform project than targetting end users, using foss enthusiasts only as beta testers who spend a lot of money Oct 21 18:14:30 It'd be funny if for the gta03 specs, they just selected all new hardware (without any consideration for previous experiences) Oct 21 18:14:33 that'd be rich. Oct 21 18:14:43 One and a half years after the first problems (bug 666) were reported, and at least a year since the first reports of the bouncing problem (1024), FINALLY this week, Openmoko announces, with great fanfare, that they have assigned/contracted with someone to TRY to fix it. Oct 21 18:15:05 hahaha Oct 21 18:15:18 weiles: GTA01 and GTA02 were target at developers Oct 21 18:15:19 hell yeah! Oct 21 18:15:20 Mwester, I bet after hearing that, we had the same look on our faces. Oct 21 18:15:25 *wered Oct 21 18:15:30 err *targeted Oct 21 18:15:31 vinicius_: GTA02 was targeted to end consumeres. Oct 21 18:15:42 mwester: lol no Oct 21 18:15:44 it changed when it became apparent that the GTA02 was broken. Oct 21 18:15:45 vinicius_: at first gta02 was targeted at developers and patient massmarket users Oct 21 18:16:00 I believe that patient is an understatement there. Oct 21 18:16:12 Dave lol Oct 21 18:16:17 vinicius_: Source for your information? (historical source, current web sites have all be "re-marketed") Oct 21 18:16:40 exactly? Oct 21 18:17:04 would be too hard to add a directional pad and two buttons to the next freerunner so they could be used for games? Oct 21 18:17:16 If they end up using the same stupid fucking case design for the next hardware revision, I'm just going to throw my freerunners out and move into another field. Oct 21 18:17:28 Nah, I'm not going to argue with you any more vinicius_ -- you want to believe something that isn't the case. Oct 21 18:17:30 ok thx guys i'll have a look in a year or so, maybe sth. has dramatically changed by then, but i don't think so... Oct 21 18:17:55 weiles, I wise decision. Oct 21 18:18:29 mwester: I don't? Oct 21 18:18:43 I bought from koolu, and I knew it was for development Oct 21 18:18:58 also, the next revision should use two TRS connectors, one for audio output and one for mic in Oct 21 18:19:12 I've been following the ml, planet and wiki since GTA01 Oct 21 18:19:42 as you are going to use 3.5" TRS instead of 2.5" ones Oct 21 18:20:27 GTA02 had a developer phase followed by a mass-market phase Oct 21 18:20:33 ahaha nicfer Oct 21 18:20:38 vinicius_: If that's the case, then you know that when the GTA01 began shipping, the GTA02 and the software stack were described by Om as being targeted for end consumers. Oct 21 18:21:15 mwester: it doesn't matter as long as what happened before GTA02 beginning shipping Oct 21 18:21:18 But it matters not, what matters is that Om has ignored the GSM problems Oct 21 18:21:26 it got changed BEFORE it started shipping Oct 21 18:21:33 Do or do not, there is no try. Oct 21 18:21:39 schedulles got rearranged, but in nowhere they said it was mass-market Oct 21 18:21:44 and that Om has assigned developers to work on the GTA03 and ignored the WSoD problem on the GTA02 Oct 21 18:21:45 Yoda > OM Oct 21 18:21:52 WSoD? Oct 21 18:21:55 Mwester, that's so stupid. Oct 21 18:22:02 How can they be so fucking ignorant? Oct 21 18:22:02 anyone got tangogps working on debian? Oct 21 18:22:04 it's possible that there won't even be a mass-market for GTA02, but anyone who bought GTA02 should know it from official channels Oct 21 18:22:14 Watch as the first gen 03's have WSOD :D Oct 21 18:22:17 vinicius_: What are you on about? Oct 21 18:22:22 that'd be classic Oct 21 18:22:29 mwester: s/about// Oct 21 18:22:42 nyu: works here Oct 21 18:22:46 or got any idea where to debug lack of gps input? what are the primitives accessed by the app? Oct 21 18:22:54 nyu: but your question is really hard to see in this channel Oct 21 18:23:05 lindi-: why? Oct 21 18:23:07 nyu: strace Oct 21 18:23:08 well, the "remarketed" thing made it sound like GTA02 was sold as a ready phone. Oct 21 18:23:12 lindi-: or you mean unusual Oct 21 18:23:25 nyu: you'll see that it has been patched to use gupsy dbus interface Oct 21 18:23:41 nyu: ignore previous line Oct 21 18:23:47 * mwester keeps silent, because he doesn't want to bother lindi- in any way. Oct 21 18:23:50 nyu: you'll see that it tries to use tcp to talk to gsmd Oct 21 18:23:53 lindi-: which one? ;-) Oct 21 18:24:02 Shhhhhh everyone. Oct 21 18:24:03 nyu: apt-get install fso-gpsd? Oct 21 18:24:11 lindi-: yeah, got that one running Oct 21 18:24:19 nyu: does it work via netcat? Oct 21 18:24:21 I followed the instructions in the wiki Oct 21 18:24:34 netcat to gpsd's port, and then what do I send? Oct 21 18:24:42 nyu: send "rw\r\n" Oct 21 18:25:02 echo rw | todos ? Oct 21 18:25:08 hah Oct 21 18:25:29 * nyu wonders how did Microsoft get its tentacles into this Oct 21 18:26:32 microsoft!? Oct 21 18:26:37 Where did they come from? Oct 21 18:26:51 mwester :P Oct 21 18:27:54 nyu: echo rw | netcat localhost $port_of_gpsd Oct 21 18:29:06 2947 Oct 21 18:34:26 yeah, I get a lot of weird output Oct 21 18:34:48 but when I click on the map icon, I get "N/A" in each field Oct 21 18:34:57 and tangogps doesn't do anything "GPSish" Oct 21 18:35:27 heh Oct 21 18:35:44 i.e. won't tell me where am i Oct 21 18:35:47 just displays maps Oct 21 18:36:00 which is nice as a "google maps in your pocket" anyway ;-) Oct 21 18:37:37 stdout just reads: Oct 21 18:37:38 ** cb_gps_timer() Oct 21 18:37:42 every second or so Oct 21 18:41:55 nyu: There are some issues with the warm start code, specifically if you send ephemeris it sometimes seems to take several minutes for a first fix Oct 21 18:42:26 I worked around this by not sending ephemeris data on startup any more. Oct 21 18:42:47 Commit is from today so you might not have got it yet Oct 21 18:42:48 alphaone: you mean after several minutes of running tangogps it'll work? Oct 21 18:43:06 nyu: If you are suffering from this problem, yeah Oct 21 18:43:07 alphaone: ah, nice. which repo? Oct 21 18:43:34 nyu: You're using debian on a freerunner? Oct 21 18:43:37 yes Oct 21 18:43:40 hmm Oct 21 18:43:46 the source will do though Oct 21 18:43:48 I have OE feeds Oct 21 18:43:51 I have a build env Oct 21 18:44:12 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=tree;f=framework/subsystems/ogpsd;h=4c9eb94d57727dd816a4d0daceb258cdd3ce028d;hb=fcf5855bfa6b71515f841dad007e86a2015e11af Oct 21 18:44:26 copy over the om.py and ubx.py Oct 21 18:44:57 you could even just copy them to your device Oct 21 18:45:00 or I could apply http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=fcf5855bfa6b71515f841dad007e86a2015e11af ? Oct 21 18:45:04 quick and dirty :-) Oct 21 18:45:28 debian has 0.9.3 Oct 21 18:45:44 ah, gpsd not tangogps Oct 21 18:46:21 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=ec176497bb6a460142efb80d6ab0ba4f8f321861;hp=19e4f65a7868b0d52a1e4eb647316df2a781f675 Oct 21 18:46:30 That one will also help Oct 21 18:46:42 As the time send was off by one hour before Oct 21 18:47:05 /usr/share/python-support/fso-frameworkd/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py sounds like it Oct 21 18:48:52 grm, all hunks rejected :-/ Oct 21 18:50:32 connection to gpsd SUCCEEDED Oct 21 18:50:34 well Oct 21 18:50:45 too bad restarting frameworkd killed my X session ;-) Oct 21 18:51:27 heh Oct 21 18:51:43 nyu: I suspect your frameworkd ist way old.. Oct 21 18:52:36 alphaone: 0.2.0-git20080909-6 Oct 21 18:53:09 20080909? Oct 21 18:53:18 over a month... Oct 21 18:54:59 is the map supposed to center automaticaly to my current position? Oct 21 19:00:15 Hey, I just read source for android was released, including kernel bits. It should also include changes to the kernel for improved battery life. I guess openmoko could benefit from it too, what do you guys think ? Oct 21 19:02:19 j4p13j0: I think I came here 30 minutes ago to say the same thing, and I've discovered that the guys that are REALLY working to make the freerunner better don't give two poops about google, android, or google's double pump-fake on the "its GPL, not it's not, now it is..." manuevering Oct 21 19:02:38 but that's just my take Oct 21 19:03:12 ab0oo: was it ever going to be GPL? Oct 21 19:03:44 no. I don't think so. My verbiage confused "open source" with "GPL". My bad. Oct 21 19:04:01 I'll go face Boston and do 20 "Hail RMS"s Oct 21 19:04:23 ab0oo: heh, i think he's in Chicago today. Oct 21 19:04:43 I don't think it will affect the outcome if I'm off by a few degrees... Oct 21 19:05:40 Dave: openmoocow challenge accepted! Oct 21 19:05:47 ab0oo: Well I'm as sceptical as you are on android, but wonder if any of their kernel patches would be of any use to openmoko or embedded linux in general ... Oct 21 19:06:10 Dave: though somewhat late in accepting :p (nerves you see) Oct 21 19:06:38 they very well may be. I have to say, I'm tickled pink with my battery life (using the mw kernel distributed with QT Extended 4.4.1) Oct 21 19:07:00 either the battery icon is lying, or suspend sleep time is >3 days Oct 21 19:09:40 ab0oo: I ran QT 4.4.1 +mw kernel a while from the SD card, and battery life was very good indeed. My OM2008.9 is very bad, so I'm tempted to try OM2008.9 with the mw kernel and see what that does Oct 21 19:10:30 I think as long as your modules line up with the kernel version, the distribution and the kernel are fairly independent Oct 21 19:11:20 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * re164a3ab620a 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [mokoko] Add mokoko recipe Oct 21 19:11:41 Yes, I figured so as well, haven't had time for creating a jffs2 image with the right modules in place Oct 21 19:12:56 Oh silly me, I just figured I could add them to the running image and only replace kernel image ..... Oct 21 19:14:02 there you have it. I just did that with my QT4.4.1 version. I put the testing sources in my opkg.conf and did an opkg update && opkg upgrade Oct 21 19:14:31 it flashed a new kernel, downloaded new modules, and basically scared the bejeezus out of me. But, it did just finish booting, so I guess I didn't break anything too bad Oct 21 19:16:08 lol ... so the feed replaced the kernel meta-package or something ? Oct 21 19:18:38 it looks like it. Oct 21 19:21:58 Hi everyone :) Oct 21 19:22:11 Is there anybody from Czech Republic? :) Oct 21 19:32:27 so ... is android gonna fix my FR or not ? Oct 21 19:32:31 * sicu hides Oct 21 19:33:13 * Kensan waits for mwester Oct 21 19:33:38 depending on the meaning of "fix" Oct 21 19:35:06 hehe .. i was just trying to pull mwester's leg ... but having read 2hrs overleaf, i believe mwester's legs have been ripped off their sockets a long time ago :p Oct 21 19:35:55 sicu: he went out to buy a pair of pants with longer legs. Oct 21 19:36:43 alphaone: no joy :-/ Oct 21 19:37:53 anyone looked at http://android.kernel.org/ already ? Oct 21 19:38:29 perhaps if I buy another 10 FRs, i might get lucky and end up with one that suffers from the WSoD syndrome so I can ship it off to Harald =] Oct 21 19:39:07 though the prospect of having another 10 toasters in the house downright frightens me Oct 21 19:39:44 Kensan: haha ... he'll have to get them custom tailored :p Oct 21 19:40:25 FilipLinux4BE: yes, koolu is working on a port. They will publish their code and push their patches upstream (android/google/om...) Oct 21 19:40:35 FilipLinux4BE: and no, you are not the first to ask ;) Oct 21 19:40:40 I dunno.. the diffs I ran show that the google guys have just been ripping off the mwester kernel mods and rebranding them... :) Oct 21 19:41:00 Somebody should put up a wiki site and change the channel subject accordingly. Oct 21 19:42:26 FilipLinux4BE: or you could just check out the 24hr # log and read up on the heated discussions on that matter: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko.txt Oct 21 19:45:24 so what's the best suited distro for driving me crazy Oct 21 19:45:31 i'm bored and need something to do =] Oct 21 19:45:51 sicu: make *BSD run on FR ;) Oct 21 19:46:09 ah, challenge accepted Oct 21 19:46:31 sicu: http://source.android.com/ Oct 21 19:46:34 sicu: install illume and frite a dailer Oct 21 19:46:43 -f+w Oct 21 19:47:25 haha, guess i let the dogs out with that one Oct 21 19:47:59 sicu: you know how to work the crowd ;) Oct 21 19:49:35 sicu: that should keep you busy for a bit more than a year I guess ;) Oct 21 19:50:01 Kensan: i just read 2hrs worth of irc log and found a recurring pattern :p Oct 21 19:53:48 Kensan: have you got some details on the koolu port ? (url or so) Oct 21 19:53:50 viq: i'm sure i would aquire a deranged state of the mind without anything useful coming of it :p Oct 21 19:54:21 sicu: right, exactly what you were looking for ;) Oct 21 19:54:28 haha ... true Oct 21 19:55:12 phobie: speaking of dialers, are there any dialers other than zhone and QT? Oct 21 19:55:18 FilipLinux4BE: they are preparing a community site/portal but it's not up yet I think. Oct 21 19:55:52 ok, did they already check of the android it is complete ? Oct 21 19:55:58 of=if Oct 21 19:56:47 FilipLinux4BE: ehm... I don't know. But you can check for yourself. Oct 21 19:57:37 that's not as easy as it sounds. There is a lot of code, but difficult to tell if there is no small piece missing. Oct 21 19:58:13 FilipLinux4BE: well you could ask bricode, he is working on the Android port. Oct 21 19:58:25 FilipLinux4BE: Currently there is a working patched kernel. Oct 21 19:58:40 FilipLinux4BE: just don't hammer him with questions since he is actually working (as in doing the port) ;) Oct 21 19:58:43 FilipLinux4BE: It appears all the sources are there to build an image. Oct 21 20:03:36 I've just compiled a package "illume" an want to install it on my FR Oct 21 20:04:06 but i get at md5sum error, probably beckayse the existing illume package has another checksum Oct 21 20:04:20 how do I bypass this? Oct 21 20:04:33 I still haven't decided which way to go: Qt Extended or Android. Those seem to be the only viable choices on short/mid-term to reach a critical mass Oct 21 20:04:48 nikolajsheller: when exactly do you get the checksum error? Oct 21 20:05:27 when issuing opkg install illume-yada-yada.ipk Oct 21 20:08:37 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re5faf9797640 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: odeviced: binding to the kobject socket only works as root Oct 21 20:08:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r251535c0f81b 10/framework/resource.py: resource.py: use own bus object Oct 21 20:08:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9f0ced185490 10/tools/cli-framework: use interface, so that we can run cli-framework as non-root Oct 21 20:08:39 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rae96cb023acd 10/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Oct 21 20:08:40 freesmartphone.org: * [ousaged] Remove dummy resources encapsulating odeviced objects Oct 21 20:08:42 freesmartphone.org: * [odeviced] Add ResourceAwarePowerControl class and use it Oct 21 20:08:44 freesmartphone.org: * [odeviced] Add powercontrol_ibm.py for IBM ACPI Resources Oct 21 20:15:42 bricode / mwester : android kernel was modified (amongst other things) to reduce battery consumption. If there is a patched version available for FR, it might be interesting to see if we can use it for the other distro's as well Oct 21 20:16:15 ahaa. removing the repositories from /etc/opkg allowed me to install without getting checksum error Oct 21 20:18:34 FilipLinux4BE: I haven't looked at the kernel patches extensively save for making sure they could be cleanly applied, built, and run. Most of the Android PM stuff seems to be Android specific at the moment. There still needs to be power management support from OM and the community. Oct 21 20:19:13 To for example get a finalized set of sleep/resume timings/sequence, which isn't an easy task. Oct 21 20:37:10 Is FDOM remotely stable? (as in remotely useable as a daily basic phone?) Oct 21 20:45:58 so android's open source and available now, has there been any discussion on what bits could be re-used from that-a-ways? Oct 21 20:47:11 Do i have to flash the kernel (i flashed mwesters kernel a few days ago before i flashed my phone with qtopia) before i flash it with FDOM? Oct 21 20:47:15 Or can i use the same kernel? Oct 21 20:47:26 working on it, see thread on community ML, bricode says he has already compiled Kernel Oct 21 20:47:56 jadams_: working on it, see thread on community ML, bricode says he has already compiled Kernel Oct 21 20:48:08 I'm setting up a forum where people can post questions and discuss Android. Oct 21 20:48:15 wolfmanjm, awesome :) Oct 21 20:48:38 and bricode I'll be interested in that, as android is my break from openmoko, but I'll be coming back for the next device Oct 21 20:49:02 I'm just putting some touches on the forum now. Oct 21 20:49:54 bricode: great a low noise forum will really help. Please post location here and to the community ML so we know where to go. Oct 21 20:53:00 links for 2007.02 for GTA02 - what would they be called? download page links to listings of hundreds of files Oct 21 20:53:13 Why does feed-administrators include git-hashes into version numbers? Oct 21 20:57:18 phobie: to make it look cryptic for the average man? :p Oct 21 20:57:26 phobie: usually when there is not an official release by the programmers and it is identifing the exact code used for the build Oct 21 20:58:03 so if you file a bug it is easier to identify if it has been fixed by a later code change Oct 21 20:59:28 sadly not a witty or interesting reply but if you could explain why brown cows eat green grass and give white milk I would appreciate it :) Oct 21 21:01:13 Would you drink it if it was red or green? ;) Oct 21 21:03:14 viq: interesting question, people do have some built in / cultural issues with oddly coloured food stuff, iirc some people had great problems eating bread that had been coloured green :) I remember as a student adding black food colouring to milk to test this theory and it did stop my housemates nicking my milk :) Oct 21 21:04:19 hehe Oct 21 21:04:45 it also put me off my cornflakes :( Oct 21 21:04:53 :P Oct 21 21:05:46 if you get bored on a wet afternoon, try adding colours to your foods and see if it affects your perceived taste of them, might require a blindfold and assistant to do control tests :) Oct 21 21:06:33 some places that margarine has to be sold without colouring, people won't buy it when they see it white instead of yellow Oct 21 21:07:21 almien: I can see that, I assume it is only coloured yellow so it looks like butter which is what people expect Oct 21 21:07:38 heck, some places butter is practically white Oct 21 21:08:33 cjb_ie: hmm I wonder how they would respond to yellow margerine there Oct 21 21:08:44 hmmm how possible would be to include a tv out in some future revision of the GTAxx? Oct 21 21:08:54 assuming I could spell it properly :P Oct 21 21:09:23 nicfer: this is going to sound daft but why would you want tv out? Oct 21 21:10:14 unless a GTAxx had silly amounts of diskspace then you would not want to be putting high quality videos on it Oct 21 21:11:21 hmmm, gaming? Oct 21 21:12:46 picture slideshows? Oct 21 21:13:13 still, there are not standarized small connectors to be used with phones Oct 21 21:13:44 the way things are moving often TVs now are not dumb devices and are frequently connected to another more intelligent device Oct 21 21:15:03 so I can see things more to do with media transfer than using a TV as an external monitor attached to a mobile. That would require a totally different set of support from the gfx Oct 21 21:17:15 nicfer: 3.5mm jacks are sometimes used in digital cameras for output to TV Oct 21 21:17:41 with an adapter to (phono?) plugs Oct 21 21:18:35 would you want your mobile trying to drive a large display like that? Oct 21 21:19:26 how many contacts use those 3.5mm jacks? Oct 21 21:22:05 the ideal would be 4 contact to be after adapted to S-Video or component video Oct 21 21:22:34 hey all, did someone already compile android for arm4? :) Oct 21 21:23:34 or just get a pandora for you tv-out needs Oct 21 21:25:46 F4t: check the the past few hrs of the irc log to see android related discussions: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko.txt Oct 21 21:26:14 * mwester chuckles as he reviews the logs... Oct 21 21:26:45 mwester: as long as you're not crying ;p Oct 21 21:27:41 F4t: a quick search for android or koolu will get you what you're looking for Oct 21 21:28:28 sicu: good luck with the bsd thing, by-the-way. :D Oct 21 21:31:21 sicu, thanks checking it out Oct 21 21:33:25 mwester: heh ... i'd need more than just luck =p Oct 21 21:34:02 Tig|: I don't think so; once the "more intelligent device" becomes smart enough, those TVs will be replaced by mere monitors Oct 21 21:34:19 at least that's my plan for my home TV set ;-) Oct 21 21:35:49 nyu: well in the UK most tv sets now are plugged into either Sat or cable decoders or freeview boxes, there are some that have embedded freeview but generally a tv set is now more or less a monitor connected to another device Oct 21 21:36:34 not here though as I don't have a TV, just monitors :) Oct 21 21:41:10 * mwester found that his Sony has a usb port hidden on the back. Oct 21 21:43:45 My old Samsung SyncMaster monitor had a USB port, I never bothered with it as all it did was replaced the front controls with a PC control panel Oct 21 21:45:03 I've been unwilling to plug anything into the Sony USB port though; my wife would be REALLY unhappy with me if I did anything to injure that TV. Oct 21 21:46:46 mwester: good thing you have not lost your humour ;) Oct 21 21:56:37 * mwester notes that Kensan spells humor correctly, unlike himself. Oct 21 21:57:18 bravo Oct 21 21:58:04 but it is spelt humour in all parts of the civilised world :P Oct 21 21:59:06 I started school in Canada, and finished in the US -- and I recall one professor who had an interesting approach: she said I could use either spelling, but she insisted that I at least be consistent! :) Oct 21 22:00:28 Since the other profs insisted on the American spelling, I learned to do it that way. Oct 21 22:04:51 mwester: well it was 50/50 and if I was wrong I have an excuse: english is not my native tongue ;) Oct 21 22:30:14 heh Oct 21 22:30:33 Mwester - good. Oct 21 22:30:42 Cross over to the dark side. Oct 21 22:30:45 >:) Oct 21 22:32:00 Dave: damn, you are always here. When do you sleep? Oct 21 22:32:53 Sleep? Oct 21 22:32:55 What's that? Oct 21 22:33:52 Dave: oh right... Oct 21 22:38:33 :p Oct 21 22:44:48 Kenyoung! Oct 21 22:45:20 Hi Dave, how are you doing tonight? Oct 21 22:46:10 morning Oct 21 22:46:22 rwhitby: good morning :) Oct 21 22:46:49 ~bed Oct 21 22:46:50 extra, extra, read all about it, bed is a thing programmers have never heard of, ask me about shower Oct 21 22:46:58 Is Jim Morris here? Oct 21 22:47:37 hah Oct 21 22:47:52 Rwhitby, were you genuinely asking? Oct 21 22:48:07 yes. Oct 21 22:48:12 Oh. Oct 21 22:48:29 Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com Oct 21 22:48:36 Aha! Oct 21 22:48:45 Ah, that's right - I didn't know his last name :p Oct 21 22:48:46 said he had trouble accessing android-internals.org, which I run. Oct 21 22:50:21 Someone started to look at the android code? Perhaps started to port it to the freerunner? :) Oct 21 22:51:28 thus far, many people I respect have said it's an utter pile of fail Oct 21 22:52:06 Daverix: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-October/005966.html Oct 21 22:53:17 oh thanks Kensan :P Oct 21 22:54:04 cool! :) Oct 21 22:55:53 * Kensan points Dave to the fact that raster just got up Oct 21 22:56:07 Dave: COMPLY! Oct 21 22:57:27 raster: tz he said he would never sleep and there he is: head on the keyboard... Oct 21 22:58:10 tz? Oct 21 22:58:43 tztztz like the english *tsktsk* or Oct 21 22:59:07 ooooh Oct 21 22:59:08 wow that's actually hard to translate Oct 21 22:59:09 rsk tsk Oct 21 22:59:10 err Oct 21 22:59:12 tsk tsk Oct 21 22:59:13 :) Oct 21 22:59:44 right you got it ;) Oct 21 23:00:00 i see Oct 21 23:01:38 well he's not complying! Oct 21 23:01:45 raster: you missed all the rave about Android source release (and thus mwesters rants) ;) Oct 21 23:02:03 raster: we shall ridicule him until he complies Oct 21 23:02:04 i read the mail list Oct 21 23:02:05 :) Oct 21 23:02:17 T'wasn't on the mail list! Oct 21 23:02:18 mwester: ranting about android? Oct 21 23:02:22 anything specific Oct 21 23:02:23 raster: pha, mailinglist in here it was like a live sports event! Oct 21 23:02:24 or just the Oct 21 23:02:27 RASTER Oct 21 23:02:45 "get realistic guys. android is not the solutiopn to it all and if u read the fine print u'll be a bit shocked" Oct 21 23:02:46 ? Oct 21 23:02:47 Who are we ridiculing? Oct 21 23:02:57 oh haha, more of that silliness! Oct 21 23:02:59 damnit, couldn't even make one funny remark about Dave. Oct 21 23:02:59 Dave: you. Oct 21 23:03:00 :) Oct 21 23:03:05 Mwester and I joked about it enough this afternoon. Oct 21 23:03:13 I'm SOOOO tempted to create "android.bb" in the OE repo... Oct 21 23:03:14 Raster - in that case, I hope you could do better! Oct 21 23:03:15 Dave: in #openmoko the channel ridicules you! Oct 21 23:03:21 Mwester - muwahahaha Oct 21 23:03:22 >:) Oct 21 23:03:29 Kensan - dude, that'd be awesome Oct 21 23:03:36 It'd be like #openmoko's roast of me! Oct 21 23:03:55 Dave: ridiculing you to try and get your attention. it worked! :) Oct 21 23:04:17 mwester: we finally know what Sean was up to ;) Oct 21 23:04:32 Oh yeah! Oct 21 23:04:33 * Kensan high fives raster Oct 21 23:05:13 I rather suspected, if you read the last few emails he and I exchanged on the list -- I was trying to see if he would "cough it up" so to speak. Oct 21 23:05:28 are the daily om images bootable? Oct 21 23:05:36 But he was too good for that. Good for him. Oct 21 23:05:49 mwester: yeah, you and andy did the good cop bad cop thing. Oct 21 23:05:50 It freezes ond only shows some boots Oct 21 23:06:11 ;) Oct 21 23:07:02 The boots. Oct 21 23:07:33 om just updated to an efl svn rev that was broken Oct 21 23:07:36 Behind the boots is text that would explain what REALLY happened to prevent it from booting up. Oct 21 23:07:44 Ah, raster knows then. goood. Oct 21 23:07:46 i know i didnt update to that svnrev myself until i fixed it Oct 21 23:07:58 so my OE patches never used it Oct 21 23:08:04 thus it was stable... if you get your E from me... Oct 21 23:08:05 :) Oct 21 23:08:20 get your e's here. reliable. no bad trips! Oct 21 23:08:44 hm Oct 21 23:08:46 true Oct 21 23:08:52 ;) Oct 21 23:08:55 your e is not the newest Oct 21 23:08:59 So... what's the fix then? Oct 21 23:11:52 great the OM mailserver is not serving haralds mails to me. Oct 21 23:12:04 mwester: did you receive http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-October/005964.html Oct 21 23:12:07 ? Oct 21 23:12:17 phobie: it was as of yesterday :) Oct 21 23:12:34 mwester: upgrade of course! Oct 21 23:12:40 mwester: I'm working on the AndroidMakefile right now ... Oct 21 23:12:45 mwester: see my ow svn tree. Oct 21 23:12:48 raster: I thought 20081012 http://download.enlightenment.org/misc/Illume/Freerunner/2008-10-12/ Oct 21 23:12:59 i should get around to putting into oe dev git sometime soon Oct 21 23:13:05 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7136726850.html Oct 21 23:13:17 phobie: oh thats just the image i build. the source tree gets updated much more often Oct 21 23:13:27 svn co http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/TMP/oe Oct 21 23:13:44 rrr Oct 21 23:13:54 and I need to build it for myself? Oct 21 23:14:13 why doen't you just publish your build? Oct 21 23:14:57 because it takes a while to upload it all Oct 21 23:15:04 and it takes my time to do it Oct 21 23:15:11 i havent made an auto-public script Oct 21 23:15:13 err Oct 21 23:15:14 publish Oct 21 23:15:18 so i scp the stuff by hand Oct 21 23:15:44 hm Oct 21 23:15:45 and that takes a while Oct 21 23:15:54 how long is the buildtime? Oct 21 23:16:09 as i keep an already built tree Oct 21 23:16:16 for me on updates its maybe 30mins Oct 21 23:16:21 but u'll need to build everything Oct 21 23:16:23 once u do it once Oct 21 23:16:25 its fast Oct 21 23:16:32 as it only builds changes after that Oct 21 23:17:15 if there was an _svn OE recipe for it, with an entry in moko-autorevs, it would be publicly built every 15 minutes ... Oct 21 23:18:28 * mwester adds that if the Treo 650 stuff could also be autobuilt... Oct 21 23:18:53 that would be nice Oct 21 23:19:07 rwhitby: i have .bb's for everything Oct 21 23:19:10 mwester: agreed. I can add that to autobuilder once there is a stable OE recipe ... Oct 21 23:19:16 just not all are in upstream oe Oct 21 23:19:26 raster: do you have OE commit privs? Oct 21 23:19:29 so i keep my changes as an svn tree with patches as an overlay Oct 21 23:19:35 umm. thats in progress Oct 21 23:19:54 ok, so this is just a temporary situation in the process of being resolved :-) Oct 21 23:20:36 raster: Updating takes 30 minutes for you. How long takes building everything? Oct 21 23:21:52 depends on your box Oct 21 23:21:54 * mwester is trying to count how many folks have recommended that raster get OE commit privs -- three so far? Oct 21 23:21:54 a day? Oct 21 23:22:03 rwhitby: yes. Oct 21 23:22:20 mwester: i sent micky ssh pub key already Oct 21 23:22:22 raster: seems like a different bootmisc.sh gets sucked in... Oct 21 23:22:26 holger said he'd add my key Oct 21 23:22:31 i need to check if it works Oct 21 23:22:35 so I won't do it. Oct 21 23:22:57 Kensan_: hmmm really? i checked. my bootmisc.sh has my commented out ldconfig secion.. Oct 21 23:23:25 ooh wait Oct 21 23:23:28 it DID.... Oct 21 23:23:32 hmm Oct 21 23:23:34 not anymore Oct 21 23:23:34 ok Oct 21 23:23:39 i need to check. Oct 21 23:24:35 RASTER! Oct 21 23:24:59 raster: it's commented out but the one that makes it to the image doesn't have the changes... Oct 21 23:25:56 Kensan_: i swear i did build an image and it had it commented out Oct 21 23:25:57 odd Oct 21 23:26:01 i will need to look Oct 21 23:26:02 but nto today Oct 21 23:26:43 Kensan_: yeah I thought so too I just saw it in the bootchart... Oct 21 23:27:20 raster: it is commented out in files-dir of the initscripts package of the image I just built. but it's not on the bootmisc.sh on the device. Oct 21 23:27:32 Cripes, Raster, when was the last time we chatted. Are you still in Japan? I'll be in sydney in december. Oct 21 23:27:43 Gamara: yo yo Oct 21 23:27:49 i'm in sydney atm Oct 21 23:27:53 Hey Chris! What brings you here? Oct 21 23:28:04 will be in korea mid-nov Oct 21 23:28:05 I was lurking cause we just released that -other- phone thing. Oct 21 23:28:10 will be moving house in december Oct 21 23:28:19 Heh, oh yeah. Oct 21 23:28:21 I'll be in syd december 2 through the 5th or so. Oct 21 23:28:31 give or take a few days. Oct 21 23:29:03 Where's the party at? Oct 21 23:30:08 hm my uboot just froze Oct 21 23:30:19 Wonderful. Oct 21 23:30:47 Gamara: i will have to play it by ear Oct 21 23:30:48 Dave, the bootloader not the ship... Oct 21 23:30:50 i need to move ouse Oct 21 23:30:54 hah Oct 21 23:30:57 so that wil suck up 2-3 days Oct 21 23:31:06 sometime bteween now and dec 15 Oct 21 23:31:19 Raster, where you going? Oct 21 23:31:31 just some other place in sydney Oct 21 23:31:37 oh Oct 21 23:32:05 Shall I send you a house-warming gift? Oct 21 23:32:37 Perhaps a few more recruits for your gang ;) Oct 21 23:33:35 hahahahhaha Oct 21 23:33:37 already 1:30... not enough hours... Oct 21 23:33:43 oh some of your z72's? Oct 21 23:33:44 :) Oct 21 23:33:49 Kensan: go schleep! Oct 21 23:34:06 raster: testing the udev speedup thingy. Oct 21 23:34:09 right now Oct 21 23:34:17 cool Oct 21 23:34:21 let me get at the bootcharts :) Oct 21 23:34:48 i will put any of my bootup patches on hold Oct 21 23:34:54 they were a bit quick Oct 21 23:34:59 Raster, indeed Oct 21 23:35:02 * mwester opens a package, and does not find a Z. Oct 21 23:35:11 Aw Oct 21 23:35:23 Damnit, I still need to build illume! arrgh Oct 21 23:35:26 damn work Oct 21 23:35:28 btw I have harald's nand patches applied without hwecc and I get almost the same results as he posted. Oct 21 23:35:35 well i'm more than happy to have a z72 and flahs it Oct 21 23:35:42 tho i suspect my treo650 will do the job just fine for you Oct 21 23:35:42 Raster, okedokey Oct 21 23:35:43 :) Oct 21 23:35:49 aha Oct 21 23:35:50 Okay Oct 21 23:36:02 Kensan: u mean raw IO speedup results? Oct 21 23:36:03 Yeah I was kind of wondering if I could just flash your treo image on it Oct 21 23:36:12 or boto speed reductiosn the same (ie almost none)? Oct 21 23:36:24 rav the rootfs may actually "just work" Oct 21 23:36:30 raster: I will see to reshuffle your init patches. I think exquisite is complaining about some missing sockets... Oct 21 23:36:30 hmm Oct 21 23:36:31 kernel will be the difference Oct 21 23:36:35 oh Oct 21 23:36:35 i think Oct 21 23:36:39 Should I try it? ;) Oct 21 23:36:50 raster: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-October/005917.html Oct 21 23:37:04 Kensan: race condition - exqusitie "dameon" starts, and there is an exquisite-write "waiting" for the daemon to start Oct 21 23:37:05 Raster, I mean, it couldn't hurt - I do have five more! ;) Oct 21 23:37:05 raster: the results for new 2.6.24 kernel (using my timing related patches): Oct 21 23:37:10 Kensan: have u tried installing prelink? Oct 21 23:37:18 Kensan: build and install prelink and see if it helps Oct 21 23:37:33 Dave: well if u really want to. Oct 21 23:37:38 as long as it has a usb data cable Oct 21 23:37:40 raster: not yet. btw do you have that list handy of boot optimisation things we wanted to take a look at? Oct 21 23:37:42 and power adaptor Oct 21 23:37:44 i'm happy Oct 21 23:37:44 :) Oct 21 23:37:58 Kensan: they're all in patches Oct 21 23:37:59 yep Oct 21 23:38:03 in my ow svn patches set Oct 21 23:38:03 :) Oct 21 23:38:06 raster: hehe right Oct 21 23:38:35 Dave: if u really want... but it's probably hassle Oct 21 23:38:47 okay Oct 21 23:38:53 but if u want Oct 21 23:38:54 sure Oct 21 23:38:57 I should probably just do it the -right- way. Oct 21 23:39:01 right? :P Oct 21 23:39:06 * raster will need to go to ikea and find some stand/setup to hold his homies Oct 21 23:39:15 hell yeah! Oct 21 23:39:53 raster: a crib ;) Oct 21 23:39:58 raster: for the gang Oct 21 23:40:04 they're not necessarily babies... Oct 21 23:40:09 though they may be HIS babies ;) Oct 21 23:41:09 yeah Oct 21 23:41:12 a crib! Oct 21 23:41:13 :) Oct 21 23:41:22 funny rtc driver this android has Oct 21 23:41:28 only supports reading time Oct 21 23:41:30 http://git.source.android.com/?p=kernel/common.git;a=commitdiff;h=a045dfc4f8f311fb934c2d5fcc628ae96e11886b Oct 21 23:41:32 no write Oct 21 23:41:43 nice Oct 21 23:41:44 no alarms, no ioctl Oct 21 23:41:45 raster: hm I don't see why the old bootmisc.sh gets sucked in... need to take a look tomorrow Oct 21 23:41:57 roh, are you really surprised? Oct 21 23:42:00 I think that a GSM-free version of the freerunner should be made so it becomes 100% free Oct 21 23:42:01 i'll worry about it after i move Oct 21 23:42:01 :) Oct 21 23:42:05 roh: goldfish is the dummy emulator machine Oct 21 23:42:10 like Apple did with the ipod touch Oct 21 23:42:13 Kensan: possibly a such-distro specific bootmisc.sh Oct 21 23:42:26 raster: hm doesn't seem that way Oct 21 23:42:30 goldfish is not a real device. the emulator gets it's time from the host OS of course. Oct 21 23:42:37 * Dave launches cocoboot Oct 21 23:43:18 aaah. Oct 21 23:43:33 rwhitby thats where i took the wrong turn ;) Oct 21 23:44:13 raster: hm 80 secs until batget is up :( Oct 21 23:44:22 gah Oct 21 23:44:23 raster: that's just for init. Oct 21 23:44:51 * crib ? Oct 21 23:44:52 thats a good measuring stick actually Oct 21 23:45:03 raster: need to tweak udev though Oct 21 23:45:04 wait, would become cheaper a non-phone version of the freerunner? Oct 21 23:45:08 raster: and all the other stuff Oct 21 23:45:16 s/would/how Oct 21 23:45:17 man, can we just have coco for the freerunner? Oct 21 23:45:24 ah dangit portmap still gets loaded Oct 21 23:45:25 it'd sure simplify a lot of things Oct 21 23:45:43 argh, how much cheaper will become it Oct 21 23:45:48 raster: but it's ~8 unti exquisite is up Oct 21 23:45:55 whoa now yoda :P Oct 21 23:45:55 Kensan: try prelink Oct 21 23:46:13 raster: that's without the 20 s from uboot and kernel Oct 21 23:46:22 will do Oct 21 23:46:51 is resolvconf provided for a special purpose? Oct 21 23:46:58 raster: so all in all 100s without fso or anything else for that matter Oct 21 23:47:02 e.g. do i have to setup dns'ing in a special way? Oct 21 23:47:13 not really Oct 21 23:47:16 Hey Hippityhop :D Oct 21 23:47:22 or is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2008.8 with networking the way to go? Oct 21 23:47:26 Hey Dave Oct 21 23:47:52 Hi now that android's sourcecode has been released does that mean it can now be ported over to the fic freerunner? Oct 21 23:47:54 hey hipitihop Oct 21 23:47:55 Hallo :) Oct 21 23:47:55 dave, was that "not really" aimed at me? Oct 21 23:48:00 yes Oct 21 23:48:04 ok, thanks Oct 21 23:48:06 SHouldn't be much conf Oct 21 23:48:08 openstandards: someone has already done it. Oct 21 23:48:11 just maybe a nameserver config Oct 21 23:48:14 openstandards: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-October/005966.html Oct 21 23:48:14 ok Oct 21 23:48:16 thks Oct 21 23:48:16 hey rwhitby Oct 21 23:48:35 Kensan: try prelink :) Oct 21 23:48:42 it may help the exqusitie start Oct 21 23:48:48 exquisite is a little bit of a problem Oct 21 23:48:49 rwhitby, I left a message for you on linkedin, seems to have gone into the ether Oct 21 23:48:56 raster: right Oct 21 23:49:00 that 8 seconds - almsot all of it is the dynamic linker i think Oct 21 23:49:11 blimey nice work Oct 21 23:49:11 searching for shared lins and hunting symbols Oct 21 23:49:13 BUT Oct 21 23:49:33 it also is an avantage to anything later using those libs (x libs mostly) Oct 21 23:49:42 as they now are already pre-lloaded/cached Oct 21 23:49:58 so removing lib linkage for exquisite will just put the extra work later in the boot Oct 21 23:50:10 so u wont gain much Oct 21 23:51:25 raster: but the splash will be up earlier Oct 21 23:51:33 yes Oct 21 23:51:37 raster: which is good Oct 21 23:51:38 prelink may help there Oct 21 23:51:42 and help a lot of thnigs Oct 21 23:51:42 maybe Oct 21 23:51:44 raster: to fool the user ;) Oct 21 23:51:51 ie it avoids symbol hunting Oct 21 23:51:56 Are there any easy solutions to use a laptop via bluetooth or USB to send/receive SMS instead of the onscreen keyboard? Gnome-phone-manager doesn't seem to be compatible. Oct 21 23:51:57 raster: well there's a ton of other things Oct 21 23:52:08 hipitihop: don't see your message there Oct 21 23:52:34 it can help anything that starts with linking Oct 21 23:52:39 it speeds up c++ stuff a lot Oct 21 23:52:45 c stuff not much - on a desktop Oct 21 23:52:53 havent benchmarked on a fr tho Oct 21 23:53:12 rwhitby, might explain something..checking.. Oct 21 23:54:09 raster: ok one last try for tonight Oct 21 23:54:42 oh boy I am going to be grumpy tomorrow morning... Oct 21 23:56:16 rwhitby, hmm is there in sent dated 13th anyway, may I send to your openmoko list e-mail ? Oct 21 23:56:43 Kensan: btw - prelink if installed needs to run first and prelink everything Oct 21 23:56:44 raster: how about prelinking? Oct 21 23:56:46 fyi Oct 21 23:56:56 ronny: thats what i was just telling Kensan :) Oct 21 23:57:14 i was slow :( Oct 21 23:59:28 :( Oct 21 23:59:37 while rebuilding initscripts Oct 21 23:59:39 *** glibc detected *** opkg-cl: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0000000000630c40 *** Oct 22 00:00:28 ooooh Oct 22 00:00:36 dats bad mmmkay! Oct 22 00:06:07 man Oct 22 00:06:11 Do I really have to build this myself :P Oct 22 00:06:25 haha, yeah, I've gotten that before, kensan :p Oct 22 00:06:30 or something like it Oct 22 00:08:12 * Dave whines at raster Oct 22 00:08:34 * raster poke Dave Oct 22 00:08:37 * raster pokes Dave Oct 22 00:08:44 build what? Oct 22 00:09:09 the kernel for the z72 Oct 22 00:09:13 :p Oct 22 00:09:27 ooh Oct 22 00:09:30 dunno Oct 22 00:09:34 u'll have to ask BobOfDoom Oct 22 00:09:39 * raster summons BobOfDoom Oct 22 00:09:39 bah Oct 22 00:09:42 Dave: there's probably a kernel in here? http://releases.hackndev.com/Angstrom-Opie-PalmZ72-v085.tar.bz2 Oct 22 00:09:48 wow Oct 22 00:09:50 MUHAHAHAHAH! Oct 22 00:09:50 I have that installed already1 Oct 22 00:09:52 that was quick Oct 22 00:09:58 Bobbot Oct 22 00:10:01 rwhitby, FYI, I have resent via normal e-mail Oct 22 00:10:04 this summoning thing is awesome Oct 22 00:10:09 Isn't it? Oct 22 00:10:12 :) Oct 22 00:10:13 More black magic please! Oct 22 00:10:14 * Kensan ponders if BobOfDoom is rasters 2nd identity Oct 22 00:10:15 :) Oct 22 00:10:19 Muwahahah Oct 22 00:10:23 man Oct 22 00:10:27 screw free/open source Oct 22 00:10:28 Kensan, most of us think you're a bot as well :P Oct 22 00:10:33 hahaha Oct 22 00:10:34 wow Oct 22 00:10:36 and all the whiney ":but i want my rights" Oct 22 00:10:37 stuff Oct 22 00:10:39 Bold words... Oct 22 00:10:39 Dave: thanks, same to you. Oct 22 00:10:54 Dave: so what's wrong with the kernel you've already got then? Oct 22 00:10:57 :) Oct 22 00:11:06 Bob, I didn't try it with raster's treo rootfs? Oct 22 00:11:09 that's all :D Oct 22 00:11:12 oss/free software is all about the ability to sit on a chat challen and just "summon" the appropriate expert on somethng at a moments notice Oct 22 00:11:16 Can I just straight out use it? Oct 22 00:11:17 try that with apple or ms! Oct 22 00:11:18 :) Oct 22 00:11:24 :D Oct 22 00:11:37 * raster summons steve jobs Oct 22 00:11:38 Yes! Oct 22 00:11:41 * raster waits Oct 22 00:11:42 haha Oct 22 00:11:47 * Dave makes popcorn Oct 22 00:11:52 * raster and waits... Oct 22 00:11:53 glas I am no expert so theres no need to summon me Oct 22 00:11:56 glad Oct 22 00:11:58 * raster and waits some more Oct 22 00:12:03 * Kensan summons typos Oct 22 00:12:05 * raster gives up Oct 22 00:12:09 see? my point! Oct 22 00:12:10 :) Oct 22 00:12:14 Good point. Oct 22 00:12:18 yep, that proves it Oct 22 00:12:21 piont Oct 22 00:12:21 Raster++ Oct 22 00:12:23 hehehehe Oct 22 00:13:40 raster: oss/free software is about being able to start a project, and then have experts from all over the world finish it for you. Oct 22 00:13:51 rwhitby: HAHAHA Oct 22 00:13:53 * rwhitby looks at nslu2-linux.org, and Treo650 Linux ... Oct 22 00:14:06 >:) Oct 22 00:14:08 YES Oct 22 00:14:10 raster: why is it e17 is still not released? Oct 22 00:14:13 *harrharrharr* Oct 22 00:14:16 i'm sticking to my summoning view of it Oct 22 00:14:16 * Kensan ducks Oct 22 00:14:21 * raster likes summoning Oct 22 00:14:32 raster: the summoning is a key part of my view too Oct 22 00:14:38 Kensan: e176 has a fatal flaw. the expert started it! Oct 22 00:14:40 err Oct 22 00:14:40 e17 Oct 22 00:14:41 :) Oct 22 00:14:48 (you need to be able to summon the experts when they are slacking off on your project) Oct 22 00:15:02 raster: you got it all wrong then! Oct 22 00:15:07 yeah Oct 22 00:15:09 :( Oct 22 00:16:09 * hipitihop goes to get some work done. Waves to the inmates .. hopes to see an FR port of Android when he returns Oct 22 00:17:37 * BobOfDoom fades back into the void to await his next summons Oct 22 00:17:52 BobOfDoom: hehehe Oct 22 00:18:00 * raster takes off his wizard hat Oct 22 00:19:19 i need to try my new treo650 image actually Oct 22 00:19:42 * Kensan summons bed Oct 22 00:20:35 do you summon the bed Oct 22 00:20:40 or... does the bed summon you? Oct 22 00:20:45 that is the question! Oct 22 00:21:42 raster: That's a tough one. I'll have to sleep over it Oct 22 00:21:43 one of these days Oct 22 00:21:45 :p Oct 22 00:21:52 i need to make some device flashing front-end Oct 22 00:22:01 where u select your kernel and rootfs and naythgni else Oct 22 00:22:08 and it flashes somethnig for your approriate device Oct 22 00:22:19 eg for a FR it asks for u to plug it in Oct 22 00:22:21 and then just does it Oct 22 00:22:24 with nice progress bar Oct 22 00:22:36 for a treo - asks for na sd card, partitions it and writes it all for u Oct 22 00:22:37 etc. Oct 22 00:22:40 etc. etc. Oct 22 00:22:54 heh Oct 22 00:23:19 mmm, yeah I was thinking about that also Oct 22 00:23:24 hm now the FR is stuck booting. Oct 22 00:23:59 BobOfDoom: somethnig nice and friendly Oct 22 00:24:01 its not hard to do Oct 22 00:24:14 just u have to have logic for each "kind" of flash Oct 22 00:24:18 a flash over usb via dfu Oct 22 00:24:27 or a "make a sd card i can boot from" one Oct 22 00:24:34 Bob, I'll let you know if things explode. Oct 22 00:24:38 it'd make for many more people wnating to do it tho Oct 22 00:24:42 as it eases the path in Oct 22 00:24:48 raster: how do I "prelink" meaning which command do I need to issue? Oct 22 00:25:06 Dave: oh, thanks... erm.. I like to watch explosions Oct 22 00:25:40 :) Oct 22 00:25:54 Kensan: prelink Oct 22 00:26:26 raster: prelink --all to be precise ;) Oct 22 00:27:15 raster: I cleaned the initscripts package before building again. It seems that oe didn't think it needed to rebuild the package after I had applied the patches ... Oct 22 00:27:20 woo Oct 22 00:27:29 holy crap does framwrokd impact the startup of my treo image Oct 22 00:27:32 sorry for the noise Oct 22 00:28:45 1343 root 20 0 19716 10m 2776 S 4.6 36.6 1:10.37 python Oct 22 00:28:45 1427 root 20 0 23148 7136 2912 S 2.3 24.0 0:16.80 enlightenment Oct 22 00:28:45 1443 root 20 0 10308 1976 1412 S 0.0 6.6 0:00.45 enlightenment_f Oct 22 00:28:45 1363 root 19 -1 5276 1476 884 S 0.0 5.0 0:03.18 Xfbdev Oct 22 00:28:56 weeee Oct 22 00:29:01 PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND Oct 22 00:29:16 guh Oct 22 00:29:44 python sucking up a whopping 7m of unpagable ram Oct 22 00:29:52 e is less than half that Oct 22 00:30:08 hell Oct 22 00:30:21 x is only using 600k Oct 22 00:30:41 BobOfDoom: well one stat Oct 22 00:30:44 add frameworkd Oct 22 00:30:59 and my free mem on boot went from 17 to 8m Oct 22 00:31:06 (excluding cache/buffers) Oct 22 00:31:20 so 9m lost to the python blob of frameworkd Oct 22 00:31:40 it almsot doubled the mem footprint (was 11 before, now 20) Oct 22 00:31:49 and not even running a gui for dialler or anything Oct 22 00:31:50 :( Oct 22 00:31:53 :( Oct 22 00:31:59 * raster <- unhappy with this Oct 22 00:32:58 it also sucks up cpu on startup like a mother Oct 22 00:33:11 this needs love and attention Oct 22 00:33:27 raster: 67 secs init Oct 22 00:33:41 Kensan: with prelink? Oct 22 00:33:46 yes Oct 22 00:33:52 have u got 2 bootcharts from before/after prelink? Oct 22 00:33:57 yes Oct 22 00:33:59 can i look at them (can u generate and upload?) Oct 22 00:34:02 pls Oct 22 00:34:04 :) Oct 22 00:34:04 NO Oct 22 00:34:06 eg Oct 22 00:34:08 heh Oct 22 00:34:10 did exquisite come up faster Oct 22 00:34:11 etc. Oct 22 00:34:12 I'll mail Oct 22 00:34:16 ok Oct 22 00:34:18 mail will be good Oct 22 00:34:24 wait let me see how big they are Oct 22 00:38:28 faster raster, faster! Oct 22 00:38:33 * Kensan summons bootcharts Oct 22 00:38:34 haha, is that what your wife says? Oct 22 00:38:53 raster: you should have the charts Oct 22 00:39:05 damn Oct 22 00:39:09 2:39 Oct 22 00:39:11 need sleep Oct 22 00:39:43 * Dave sends Kensan SIGTRANQ Oct 22 00:39:56 nite-nite :] Oct 22 00:40:03 raster: forgot to mention in the mail Oct 22 00:40:22 raster: nand-patches + no-hwecc Oct 22 00:41:10 bboth of them? Oct 22 00:41:19 i am more thinkign "what does prelink do here" Oct 22 00:41:42 raster: total boottime without debug output etc is now at 65 secs total (incl uboot+kernel+init+x) Oct 22 00:42:16 raster: I meant nand-patches were applied but no hw-ecc Oct 22 00:42:31 raster: if you look at them at a later time etc. Oct 22 00:43:17 raster: fso takes another ~45 secs so it's now under 2 min... Oct 22 00:43:23 hahaha that's so crappy Oct 22 00:43:45 fso is very heavy... considering Oct 22 00:43:47 but we know that Oct 22 00:44:23 raster: no I just realized that the total time is still very high. unacceptable high :( Oct 22 00:44:27 *sigh* Oct 22 00:44:33 hmm Oct 22 00:44:41 u added the udev stuff to there Oct 22 00:44:50 raster: did but needs more tweaking Oct 22 00:44:57 exquisite does gain about 2 seconds tho with prelink Oct 22 00:44:59 thats good Oct 22 00:45:55 raster: I don't know how much potential there is Oct 22 00:46:04 there should be a fair amount still left Oct 22 00:46:11 yes Oct 22 00:46:16 don't know what's realistic though Oct 22 00:46:31 e takes 4 seconds just to get to starting its own splash Oct 22 00:46:46 14 secos until fm starts up Oct 22 00:47:03 and battery module is alive after about 17sec Oct 22 00:47:04 raster: udev still needs a lot of time. Oct 22 00:47:10 mind u Oct 22 00:47:19 if fso wasnt starting... Oct 22 00:47:22 it'd be faster Oct 22 00:47:23 :) Oct 22 00:47:40 yeah without fso it's currently at ~65 secs Oct 22 00:47:43 xglamo takes 2 seconds until its ready too Oct 22 00:47:46 thats a bit much Oct 22 00:47:59 u didnt remvoe avahi Oct 22 00:48:00 :) Oct 22 00:48:07 what the? Oct 22 00:48:10 argh Oct 22 00:48:18 avahi dameon still starting Oct 22 00:48:20 portmap? Oct 22 00:49:20 yes Oct 22 00:49:22 :o Oct 22 00:49:23 u still have that too Oct 22 00:49:23 lol Oct 22 00:49:29 but xglamo blowsup Oct 22 00:49:36 didn't you deactivate them with your patches? Oct 22 00:49:45 well something is off. Oct 22 00:49:52 i am sure i did... Oct 22 00:50:08 Kensan: go sleep Oct 22 00:50:10 do it tomorrow! Oct 22 00:50:13 u'l be grumpy! Oct 22 00:50:14 ok that's actually good, that that stuff all still starts that means it's all time easily saved :) Oct 22 00:50:20 I am grumpy already Oct 22 00:50:26 arr Oct 22 00:50:42 hehehe Oct 22 00:51:42 yarr Oct 22 00:52:22 raster: what's happening after S03udev/udevd starts? there's a 10 sec void until rc picks up... Oct 22 00:53:11 hmm Oct 22 00:53:18 portmap can be removed i think Oct 22 00:53:21 along with avahi Oct 22 00:53:28 dropbear should just start later Oct 22 00:53:39 networkign could easily be punted off later Oct 22 00:53:43 yeah Oct 22 00:53:54 hcid Oct 22 00:53:58 udev is definitely a problem Oct 22 00:54:08 need to take a closer look tomorrow Oct 22 00:54:14 xinit -> xglamo ->xsession seems a bit sluggish Oct 22 00:54:16 i wodner why Oct 22 00:54:18 as i sah Oct 22 00:54:21 shleeep now Oct 22 00:54:36 night Oct 22 00:54:40 and happy hacking. Oct 22 00:54:45 e is something i know fairly intimately wihtin its startup Oct 22 00:54:50 but thats a matter of digging into e's code Oct 22 00:54:59 i know i have cut a lot of corners to make it fast-ish Oct 22 01:10:51 haha Oct 22 01:18:33 i am fairly hapopy with e's startup Oct 22 01:18:37 considering how much it does... Oct 22 01:18:51 its miles ahead of most thnigs doing the stuff it does Oct 22 01:19:48 doesn't mean it cant improve Oct 22 01:19:49 :) Oct 22 01:23:06 yep! Oct 22 01:36:14 how do? Oct 22 01:40:07 anyone come across a way to boost the handset mic volume to a reasonable level? Oct 22 01:40:23 i have my mic2 volume jacked, and other alsamixer settings don't seem to help :( Oct 22 01:45:39 hmmm Oct 22 01:45:43 fucking scap Oct 22 01:47:57 define scap Oct 22 01:49:02 hahaha, oops Oct 22 01:49:13 I dos'ed scap for a moment there again - haha Oct 22 01:49:29 I should really stop hammering them :) Oct 22 01:49:52 Sargun. Oct 22 01:50:26 DAVE. Oct 22 01:50:30 Dave. Oct 22 01:52:13 how are you david? Oct 22 01:53:21 WE HEAR YOU. Oct 22 01:53:22 Sargun: you are everywhere Oct 22 01:53:29 Affirmative. Oct 22 01:53:40 He is. Oct 22 01:53:56 This moment of strangeness brought to you by the Internet. Oct 22 01:54:29 I am everywhere. Oct 22 01:54:29 Welcome to #openmoko Oct 22 01:54:38 I AM Oct 22 01:54:48 CALLED DAVE Oct 22 01:55:00 Davenipotent Oct 22 01:55:26 i wonder if Dave and Dave2 have ever been in the same place at the same time. Oct 22 01:55:33 * rwhitby attempts to upload his first patch to Android, and finds a problem in the upload system :-) Oct 22 01:55:43 mwester: I got a mention on http://source.android.com/known-issues :-) Oct 22 01:55:54 Mattl, of course. Oct 22 01:56:02 rwhitby :D Oct 22 01:56:09 i have illume-config installed - but i can't find where to enable the keyboard-toggle for 2008.9 again? Oct 22 01:56:14 Fame comes in many forms ;) Oct 22 01:56:18 Dave: IRL, Dave2's opener to me was a goatse hand gesture. Oct 22 01:56:30 haha, that fucker :) Oct 22 01:56:45 mwester: well, I've lost interest in picking holes in Openmoko's build system, so now it's time to move on to Android ;-) Oct 22 01:57:02 when will Android work on the freerunner? Oct 22 01:57:14 Never! Oct 22 01:57:18 mattl: according to Sean McNeil it already does. Oct 22 01:57:20 Come back next year? Oct 22 01:57:27 Who? SEAN? Oct 22 01:57:38 haha, rod Oct 22 01:57:39 rwhitby: where is this McNeil? Oct 22 01:57:43 Indeed. Oct 22 01:57:57 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-October/005966.html Oct 22 01:58:09 Man, I have to catch up on that. Oct 22 01:58:19 Mattl, hah, they finally promoted you too? Oct 22 01:58:23 of course suspend/resume doesn't work yet :-) Oct 22 01:58:25 Wow, what is this world coming to :) Oct 22 01:58:36 promoted me? Oct 22 02:31:52 I was just reading that company Koolu will be selling the FR with Android port in November, and downloads for existing FR owners Oct 22 02:32:10 http://www.koolu.com/ Oct 22 02:33:46 Infoport: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-October/005966.html Oct 22 02:34:34 Infoport: imho that's going to be a lot of hot air. Oct 22 02:34:45 maybe some time next year Oct 22 02:36:15 rwhitby thanks, I read that from your post above. This is from a company selling them, with Jon "maddog" something (writes in Linux Journal sometimes, well known Linux advocate) Oct 22 02:36:59 raster you think? it seems like it could be at least as stable as ASU, SHR, etc Oct 22 02:36:59 yeah, I expect Sean McNeil is developing for Koolu, but don't know for sure. Oct 22 02:37:41 Infoport: that means they have a month (basically) to port andorid Oct 22 02:37:48 and ensure it works Oct 22 02:37:57 raster: they'd had android source access for some time apparently (if Sean McNeil works for Koolu), so they could have it already. Oct 22 02:38:07 (modulo kernel and hardware problems) Oct 22 02:38:12 rwhitby: i'm dubious - for... many reasons Oct 22 02:38:14 raster acc. to Sean McNeil, it is already ported, so they have a month to FINISH it Oct 22 02:38:40 Does anyone know if Sean McNeil is developing for Koolu? Oct 22 02:38:45 (i happen to have heard many thnigs from koolu before and a lot of them have been hot air) Oct 22 02:39:07 Koolu is a partner for Google Apps, so they probably HAVE had early access Oct 22 02:39:21 bricode should know more about this ... Oct 22 02:40:02 in fact there is a shot of a FR running Android (unless it is a photoshop) Oct 22 02:40:22 So... now the non-free Android SDK portions have been liberated? Oct 22 02:40:23 lets see Oct 22 02:40:25 i'm dubious Oct 22 02:40:35 i will be surprised if they ship somethnig like that in nov. Oct 22 02:40:42 raster: I'm skeptical, but won't be surprised. Oct 22 02:40:51 rwhitby: with you there Oct 22 02:40:56 nmot saying the task is impossible Oct 22 02:41:05 its just not goign to be in nov Oct 22 02:41:12 It will be a lot of work. Oct 22 02:41:13 if they have had access for 6 months, it could easily be. Oct 22 02:41:14 esthar: the andorid sdk is not free by any means Oct 22 02:41:23 I'm less interested in them shipping than releasing that port for download :D another boot to try Oct 22 02:41:27 baiscally u are not allowed to use it for anything but android development Oct 22 02:41:27 bricode: is Sean McNeil involved with you guys?> Oct 22 02:41:32 We're looking at having something available to people for evaluation purposes. Oct 22 02:41:38 rwhitby: No. Oct 22 02:41:39 cannot revrse engineer any of it Oct 22 02:41:40 etc. Oct 22 02:41:48 So a custom proprietary license. Oct 22 02:41:49 Blah Oct 22 02:41:51 raster: that's not true of the source, only the binary download Oct 22 02:42:00 So is that the biggest issue with the Android? Oct 22 02:42:16 I own a FR and I'm trying to understand how OpenMoko stacks up to Android freedom-wise Oct 22 02:42:19 you can rebuild the binary from the source and not be encumbered by the binary SDK download license they had before the source was released Oct 22 02:42:32 hmm Oct 22 02:42:35 why add restrictions then? Oct 22 02:42:48 it's the old license from when the source was not released Oct 22 02:42:58 they haven't done an SDK update Oct 22 02:42:58 raster: They're required. Reverse engineering is illegal in the US for example. Oct 22 02:42:59 hmm interesting. I *do* have a philisophical bent to my computing, so it matters to me too Oct 22 02:43:18 bricode: let's see if u ship in nov. Oct 22 02:43:19 From what I can see, they've done a squeaky clean Apache release. Oct 22 02:43:25 bricode: required? they're never "required" Oct 22 02:43:32 its an additional restriction Oct 22 02:43:41 there is NO requirement to restrict reverse enigneering Oct 22 02:43:41 raster: Yes, lets see if we can. Oct 22 02:43:47 its an option they chose to add. Oct 22 02:44:00 bricode only as far as it is used to circumvent protection of a product Oct 22 02:44:03 raster: If it is more functional than 2007.2, we will have succeeded. Oct 22 02:44:08 bricode: i think you're more likely to do it q1 next year if u are already head down, bum up in it Oct 22 02:44:14 raster: when talking to the business guys who handed over the millions to be part of the OHA, you can bet they made it a requirement ;-) Oct 22 02:45:02 Anyway, I'm yet to see someone who has actually looked at the Android source code release find a problem with it. Oct 22 02:45:06 rwhitby: yes - but its an optionakl one Oct 22 02:45:11 nothnig in law requires you to do that Oct 22 02:45:15 raster: agreed. Oct 22 02:45:16 bricode: reverse engineering (in general) is not illegal in the US Oct 22 02:45:23 So...I'm still not 100% clear on the freedom of the Android platform. I'm happy with my Freerunner, but I want to know if Android phones are something I would recommend to others. I get bad vibes honestly. Oct 22 02:45:38 its essentially stupid - if you provide all the source Oct 22 02:45:43 its a pointles srestriction Oct 22 02:45:54 of course.. if in future you intend to not provide source for blobs of the sdk.. Oct 22 02:45:58 then it makes sense Oct 22 02:45:58 :) Oct 22 02:45:58 raster: that's the point - they DIDN'T release the source back then Oct 22 02:46:10 Sorry, my mistake. As per Infoport. Oct 22 02:46:22 raster: I think you underestimate the power of deep pockets. Oct 22 02:46:22 So is all the source available for the OS *and* the SDK now? Licensed freely? Oct 22 02:46:28 raster: and they have left the door open for SDK blobs without source. Oct 22 02:46:38 rwhitby: yes :) Oct 22 02:46:42 esthar: Apache 2.0 Oct 22 02:46:56 that i guess is the point Oct 22 02:47:00 c'mon people - read it for yourselfs instead of listening to FUD Oct 22 02:47:01 rwhitby: For 100% of both the OS and the SDK? It's all Apache 2 licensed? Oct 22 02:47:08 bricode: oh - i know the power of deep pockets. it's al about money Oct 22 02:47:22 esthar: no, some is GPLed, where they used existing projects. liek the kernel Oct 22 02:47:27 what i do not like is the "blow the open/linux" trumpet Oct 22 02:47:29 esthar: look in the LICENSE files on the git repo I just gave you Oct 22 02:47:38 but under the covers make sure that you are ready to close things off Oct 22 02:47:40 Okay so it's 100% freely licensed though, right? Oct 22 02:47:45 and clearly work hard towards that goal Oct 22 02:47:45 raster: Most of the time. Oct 22 02:47:47 like bsd libc Oct 22 02:47:49 not glibc Oct 22 02:47:53 OT: where to buy 16GB microSD cards? Oct 22 02:47:55 esthar: neither is Openmoko ... Oct 22 02:48:01 and replace pretty much the entire userspace (Except kernel) with bsd stuff Oct 22 02:48:07 bbl I need to do some chores so food can be made Oct 22 02:48:13 i'm suspicious of it Oct 22 02:48:17 rwhitby: OpenMoko as far as I understand requires non-free firmware for 2-3 components, but all drivers and software is 100% Free. Oct 22 02:48:17 esthar: depending on your definition of free. It's all OSI licensed at least :p Oct 22 02:48:25 as it basically means vendors can (and will) close off as much of the os as they can Oct 22 02:48:29 or will begin trying Oct 22 02:48:31 esthar: and the same seems to be true for Android. Oct 22 02:48:45 rwhitby: but the G1 has UMTS support Oct 22 02:48:50 There are free UMTS drivers?? Oct 22 02:48:55 but let's see Oct 22 02:49:11 esthar: same deal as in openmoko - kernel driver to closed radio stack Oct 22 02:49:44 BobOfDoom: Apache 2.0 is GPLv3 compatible Oct 22 02:49:45 rwhitby: Well shoot. I thought there were just plain no free UMTS drivers (irrespective of firmware available). Oct 22 02:50:27 esthar: that's my understanding, I could be wrong. Oct 22 02:50:38 (haven't delved that deep into the kernel code yet) Oct 22 02:50:43 Hrrmmm Oct 22 02:50:55 That makes me want UMTS support for GTA03 instead of waiting for GTA04 Oct 22 02:51:21 rwhitby: it's compatible with GPLv3 but not 2 according to wikipedia Oct 22 02:51:24 GTA03 will have EDGE and a camera as I understand, but no UMTS. I thought it was a freedom issue preventing UMTS inclusion in GTA03. Oct 22 02:51:44 BobOfDoom: correct. But FSF is all about GPLv3, now, so they've redefined "Free (as in FSF)" Oct 22 02:51:45 has anyone had problems with a large number of files (a gentoo portage tree + normal root files) on their microSD cards? it gives me out of space messages when df reports the partition as half-full Oct 22 02:52:17 esthar: I thought it was 3G licensing fees ... Oct 22 02:52:56 gurugentoo: probably out of inodes Oct 22 02:53:04 gurugentoo: try: df -i Oct 22 02:54:16 esthar: umts is not a freedom restircter. the problem is cost. Oct 22 02:54:36 esthar: finding a 3g gsm modem module that u can talk a documented protocol to (at commands) that is small and power-efficient Oct 22 02:54:42 and doesnt cost a fortune Oct 22 02:54:45 thats the problem Oct 22 02:54:49 yep Oct 22 02:54:55 BobOfDoom: I was afraid it was that, can the number be increased? Oct 22 02:55:48 gurugentoo: what filesystem is it? ext2/3? check the -N option in mkfs.ext3 manpage Oct 22 02:56:12 BobOfDoom: ext2, I'll look Oct 22 02:56:25 gurugentoo: AFAIK you can't increase inodes without reformatting for ext2/3 though. So you'll have to tar up everything on your PC, recreate it with more inodes and untar Oct 22 02:56:53 haha, sweet Oct 22 02:56:57 now I need more sd cards! Oct 22 02:57:16 * Dave begins breeding an army Oct 22 02:57:16 BobOfDoom: goodie!! Oct 22 02:57:41 Dave: oh oh... your gang is expanding Oct 22 02:58:01 rwhitby: 3g is a nasty piece of work :( Oct 22 02:58:13 slightly off-topic, anyone know of a company that rebrands fic laptops in north america? Oct 22 02:59:23 doc|home: everex Oct 22 02:59:54 raster: thanks **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 22 02:59:57 2008