**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 28 02:59:57 2008
Oct 28 03:00:45 <raster> hmm
Oct 28 03:00:53 <raster> anyone understand how glibc handles encodings?
Oct 28 03:05:27 <gurugentoo> do you use get_e.sh to install on FR?
Oct 28 03:14:19 <Dave> Fxchip :)
Oct 28 03:14:24 <chi> k, all flashed =D
Oct 28 03:16:57 <chi> oooo
Oct 28 03:16:59 <chi> sexy
Oct 28 03:17:37 <chi> hrm, the screen keeps shutting off
Oct 28 03:17:38 <chi> heh
Oct 28 03:24:17 <chi> worth every penny =D
Oct 28 03:24:20 * chi dances
Oct 28 03:24:46 <slaxxin> There are 11,137 registered users
Oct 28 03:27:00 <chi> hrm, can't seem to find a shift or use CAPS to enter the wifi password
Oct 28 03:28:21 <slaxxin> u can add those if u are using 2007.2
Oct 28 03:28:33 <slaxxin> i think
Oct 28 03:31:19 <slaxxin> did u flash?
Oct 28 03:31:32 <chi> i am on 2008.9
Oct 28 03:31:35 <chi> i just flashed yea
Oct 28 03:31:37 <slaxxin> ok
Oct 28 03:31:39 <nemik> i wish the emulator worked better...this is crazy bad now
Oct 28 03:31:51 <slaxxin> do u see the installer
Oct 28 03:32:18 <nemik> the Makefile?
Oct 28 03:32:24 <slaxxin> if u install illume
Oct 28 03:32:28 <chi> i just changed the passwd to all lower case heh
Oct 28 03:32:39 <slaxxin>   u get a terminal keyboard
Oct 28 03:32:41 <chi> slaxxin, i will install in a moment =P
Oct 28 03:32:46 <chi> sweet
Oct 28 03:33:47 <slaxxin> fdom is loaded with some stuff
Oct 28 03:34:03 <slaxxin> qt extended is very cool
Oct 28 03:34:08 <chi> gah, no spaces either
Oct 28 03:34:55 <slaxxin> u got an 4 gig micro sdcard?
Oct 28 03:35:15 <chi> i thought 2g where as big as the sd cards got
Oct 28 03:35:24 <chi> the others are sdhc or something
Oct 28 03:35:28 <slaxxin> well debian is big
Oct 28 03:35:38 <slaxxin> amn maps are bigger
Oct 28 03:36:02 <chi> illume is a debian derivative?
Oct 28 03:36:09 <chi> i thought it was just a program heh
Oct 28 03:40:22 * chi reads up on it
Oct 28 03:43:34 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 03:44:18 <slaxxin> just use the installer to install the illume keyboard so u will have a good keyboard
Oct 28 03:46:36 <chi> i gotta connect to my network first heeh
Oct 28 03:47:03 <chi> wifi detects but does not want to connect to my wpa
Oct 28 03:48:47 <AntonTakk> anyone using a recent fso daily?
Oct 28 03:48:52 <AntonTakk> er, testing
Oct 28 03:51:10 <slaxxin> its too easy to bork an installation useing wifi
Oct 28 03:54:10 <chi> i guess i gotta set up the usb networkin then
Oct 28 03:54:29 <chi> runnin out of time tonight though
Oct 28 03:54:31 <chi> =\
Oct 28 03:58:54 <raster> gurugentoo:  get_e.sh for the fr? hell no! well.. unless u have a compiler and full dev suite...
Oct 28 04:00:08 <gurugentoo> would it take long to compile?
Oct 28 04:00:18 <gurugentoo> I have a large sd card
Oct 28 04:01:51 <gurugentoo> it's debian with gcc
Oct 28 04:02:42 <gurugentoo> ya maybe that,s a bad idea
Oct 28 04:11:54 <wildnux> how do i install ssl for the msn in pidgin?
Oct 28 04:13:06 <raster> grummel:  vcompile on the FR?
Oct 28 04:13:11 <raster> no idea
Oct 28 04:13:12 <raster> a long time
Oct 28 04:13:14 <raster> hours
Oct 28 04:13:27 <raster> oe has packages for  it
Oct 28 04:13:31 <raster> i maitnain an updatesd set
Oct 28 04:13:39 <gurugentoo> debian?
Oct 28 04:13:40 <raster> in fact i'm updating them now to the latest builds for my illume image
Oct 28 04:13:44 <raster> no
Oct 28 04:13:48 <raster> dbeian is not worht it
Oct 28 04:13:49 <gurugentoo> hehe
Oct 28 04:13:50 <raster> its too fat
Oct 28 04:13:58 <gurugentoo> perhaps
Oct 28 04:14:19 <raster> when debian uses <100m for a full x/gui install like oe does
Oct 28 04:14:22 <raster> let me know :)
Oct 28 04:14:31 <gurugentoo> aight
Oct 28 04:14:49 <raster>  54M openmoko-illume-image-glibc-ipk--20081027-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2.summary
Oct 28 04:14:52 <raster> thats an oe build
Oct 28 04:15:00 <raster> including e + illume + x etc. etc.
Oct 28 04:15:09 <raster> no real apps other than terminal and an alarm app
Oct 28 04:15:19 <raster> but debian's base image withotu even x is many times that size
Oct 28 04:15:22 <wildnux> plz help this poor little guy to use msn id from pidgin..... it is aking me to install ssl
Oct 28 04:15:45 <AntonTakk> raster: happen to know if the startup theme from your images would work with a recent fso image?
Oct 28 04:17:17 <raster> AntonTakk:  it should
Oct 28 04:17:34 <raster> the illume image is basically the same as fso
Oct 28 04:17:39 <raster> just missing fso packages
Oct 28 04:17:59 <raster> well frameworkd packages
Oct 28 04:18:14 <AntonTakk> just seems to me that that bouncing yin-yang is an awful waste of resources, and i like the startup theme in your images better
Oct 28 04:23:52 <raster> AntonTakk: true
Oct 28 04:23:58 <raster> that was a simple replacement of the asu theme
Oct 28 04:23:59 <slaxxin> bright white light that gets brighter
Oct 28 04:24:01 <raster> and throwing images in
Oct 28 04:24:18 <raster> somehtng just to show no we are not 2008.x/asu"
Oct 28 04:25:08 <raster> ok
Oct 28 04:25:19 <raster> how do  i enable utf8 locale support for glibc in oe?
Oct 28 04:35:01 <shaz> hi
Oct 28 04:35:25 <shaz> has anyone tried qemu emulation recently
Oct 28 04:36:00 <shaz> I could not run my local images on it due to inconsistent paths in moko makefile
Oct 28 04:36:06 <shaz> any suggestions???
Oct 28 04:56:40 <raster> shaz: no
Oct 28 04:56:49 <raster> but most people wprobab;y run stuff on their FR's
Oct 28 04:56:51 <raster> probably
Oct 28 04:56:53 <raster> i mean
Oct 28 04:56:59 <raster> or just run on nativ x86 to start
Oct 28 04:59:46 <shaz> raster: I think we dont yet have GTA02 emulation so I was trying the emulation og GTA01 for my students because I am short of devices
Oct 28 05:00:03 <raster> aaah
Oct 28 05:00:24 <raster> it all depends what u are actually doing
Oct 28 05:00:25 <shaz> x86 would not prove to be very motivating for them to do their experiments
Oct 28 05:00:34 <raster> as such development is easier/faster if u do it on x86 (or desktop)
Oct 28 05:00:40 <raster> and fake the screen with xnest/xephyr
Oct 28 05:00:44 <raster> u have much better debug tools
Oct 28 05:00:58 <raster> and compiling + testing cycles are scadloads faster
Oct 28 05:01:20 <shaz> xnest/xephyr .... have'nt gone through them yet.
Oct 28 05:01:28 <raster> u can "fake" the slowness by using a combination of speedstep + cpu throttling
Oct 28 05:01:35 <shaz> Do you really think I should go through it
Oct 28 05:01:36 <raster> thats how i do it
Oct 28 05:01:39 <raster> its a time saver
Oct 28 05:01:48 <raster> its probably the FIRSt port of call
Oct 28 05:01:49 <raster> imho
Oct 28 05:01:52 <raster> not qemu
Oct 28 05:01:58 <gurugentoo> raster: i'm playing with your build again...is opkg usable? it's giving me an error 2 (error parsing config file)
Oct 28 05:02:02 <raster> make your stuff first fit on a small screen
Oct 28 05:02:08 <raster> then make it run ok when the system si slow
Oct 28 05:02:29 <raster> THEN worry about arm and cross-compiling, architecture fun (need to do aligned mem access, char is unsigned etc.)
Oct 28 05:02:43 <raster> gurugentoo:  opkg is usable
Oct 28 05:02:55 <raster> i build images whihc are filled by opkg
Oct 28 05:03:58 <shaz> I have ported a few software where I got char signedness right :) Mostly it was getopt()
Oct 28 05:04:17 <shaz> some parse options thingy
Oct 28 05:05:49 <shaz> raster: I'll follow your instructions for an initial tutorial but if I get stuck then I'll whom to blame :)
Oct 28 05:06:18 <raster> shaz: getopt() shouldnt care about signendness
Oct 28 05:06:23 <raster> the problem is when u do actual math
Oct 28 05:06:29 <raster> like range comparisons
Oct 28 05:06:35 <raster> etc. with chars
Oct 28 05:06:51 <raster> sometimes people do them when they are trying to save space for low-value compute variables
Oct 28 05:07:01 <raster> but seriosuly
Oct 28 05:07:13 <raster> gte going with xenest/xepyr first
Oct 28 05:07:18 <raster> (i suggest xephyr)
Oct 28 05:07:31 <raster> then build a native copy of the wm/desktop apps
Oct 28 05:07:33 <raster> and run them
Oct 28 05:07:51 <raster> (a small script will do to launch xephyr + then run the wm etc. - e17 comes with one that does this for you)
Oct 28 05:08:18 <shaz> it checks for arguments and the switch uses char c for options so there the compiler gets confused with arm and x86 differences
Oct 28 05:08:53 <shaz> I'll start with xepyr on openmoko wiki
Oct 28 05:23:25 <raster> shaz: for just a comparison the compile wont get confused
Oct 28 05:23:27 <raster> it may complain
Oct 28 05:23:31 <raster> but not get confused
Oct 28 05:23:35 <raster> is c == c2
Oct 28 05:23:36 <raster> ie
Oct 28 05:23:39 <raster> or strcmp
Oct 28 05:23:42 <raster> it works just fine
Oct 28 05:23:53 <raster> the problem is if u wantto know if it > or < 
Oct 28 05:23:56 <raster> and even that is fine
Oct 28 05:24:01 <raster> UNTIL u go beyond ascii
Oct 28 05:24:37 <shaz> maybe it was some other function maybe getparseopt(). I did that stuff a month or two back and now have a patch to handle it :)
Oct 28 05:25:44 <raster> its basicalyl the problem if negatives vs large positives and 2's compliment
Oct 28 05:25:52 <shaz> I just had to replace "char c" with "int c"
Oct 28 05:25:56 <DocScrutinizer2> utf
Oct 28 05:26:09 <raster> as long as u stay in 0x00 <= val <= 0x7f
Oct 28 05:26:19 <raster> unsigned and signed are the same for all purposes
Oct 28 05:26:33 <raster> (pretty much)
Oct 28 05:26:36 <raster> until u overflow
Oct 28 05:26:40 <raster> or underlfow
Oct 28 05:26:50 <raster> then u are into interpretation fo 2's compliment by the compiler
Oct 28 05:28:28 <shaz> wait ... its too much for me :) Thats too much a punishment for asking to get gta01 or gta02 to run over qemu
Oct 28 05:28:40 <raster> hahahaha
Oct 28 05:28:46 <parodyoflanguage> $499 sounds high for a neo freerunner...
Oct 28 05:29:02 <raster> ChandleWEi: just whip your students if their code doesnt pass -W -Wall -pedantic
Oct 28 05:30:46 <ChandleWEi> raster: I don't know what you say?
Oct 28 05:32:20 <raster> ch sorroy means shaz 
Oct 28 05:32:23 <raster> typos :)
Oct 28 05:32:37 <raster> shaz: just whip your students if their code doesnt pass -W -Wall -pedantic
Oct 28 05:38:00 <shaz> Ok :) But whose going to whip me
Oct 28 05:38:24 <raster> us
Oct 28 05:38:27 <raster> :)
Oct 28 05:38:38 <cjb_ie> shaz: that depends, how kinky do you want to get...
Oct 28 05:38:41 <raster> u thought we were here to help?
Oct 28 05:38:42 <raster> help no
Oct 28 05:39:01 <raster> we're here just to dish out whippings to unsuspecting innocents :)
Oct 28 05:39:15 <shaz> Is rwhitby around so that I can request him to fix makefile for qemu
Oct 28 05:39:43 * raster wheels rwhitby back into the closet
Oct 28 05:39:51 <raster> nothing to see here
Oct 28 05:40:43 <shaz> I am used to whips thats how I got to get going with opensource
Oct 28 05:41:31 * raster brings out the cat-o-9-tails
Oct 28 05:42:25 <shaz> Oh I love OSS
Oct 28 05:43:13 <shaz> I never meant it was a hackers mess ...
Oct 28 05:53:18 <hongjiujing> Hi,every one ,i am a gpe fans,i want to port GPE to openmoko.Now i need to programe a disk manager,who can detect udisk 、SD card and power usage!Does anyone have done?I need your help!My email:hongjiujing@126.com!Thanks first! 
Oct 28 05:53:22 <hongjiujing> i use QEMU
Oct 28 05:55:00 <hongjiujing> no one ?
Oct 28 05:55:36 <hongjiujing> anyone can help me ?
Oct 28 05:58:39 <hongjiujing> anyone can help me for openmoko GPE?
Oct 28 05:58:46 <quickdev> hey
Oct 28 05:59:47 <hongjiujing> hey
Oct 28 06:00:01 <hongjiujing> i am using QEMU for openmoko.
Oct 28 06:00:17 <hongjiujing> bitbake gpe-image to build gpe rootfs
Oct 28 06:00:42 <hongjiujing> ow i need to programe a disk manager,who can detect udisk 、SD card and power usage!
Oct 28 06:00:47 <hongjiujing> now i need to programe a disk manager,who can detect udisk 、SD card and power usage!
Oct 28 06:01:27 <hongjiujing> quickdev,are you here ?
Oct 28 06:02:05 <hongjiujing> no one can help me ?
Oct 28 06:03:03 <quickdev> hongjiujing, it's not openmoko specifiy, right? Maybe you should ask in a linux channel
Oct 28 06:03:33 <quickdev> hey charlie137 
Oct 28 06:04:13 <shaz> hongjiujing: try the openmoko kernel mailing list
Oct 28 06:04:14 <hongjiujing> o,my god
Oct 28 06:04:23 <hongjiujing> thanks
Oct 28 06:04:40 <hongjiujing> quickdev,where are you from ?
Oct 28 06:05:10 <charlie137> quickdev: hey
Oct 28 06:16:01 <AceOfHertz> is there a way to get a more finger friendly keyboard in OM2008, kind of like there was for OM2007?
Oct 28 06:17:32 <quickdev> charlie137, you're developing the opimd, right? :)
Oct 28 06:18:21 <charlie137> quickdev: yes
Oct 28 06:18:32 <charlie137> quickdev: but i just port it to the framework
Oct 28 06:18:49 <quickdev> charlie137, I know, I'm following the git log
Oct 28 06:19:11 <quickdev> charlie137, we will integrate it into our shr applications as soon as there's basic functionality available
Oct 28 06:19:35 <charlie137> ok
Oct 28 06:19:58 <charlie137> quickdev: but, i won't be able to work on it so much this week
Oct 28 06:20:20 <charlie137> quickdev: it already works at least to retrieve the contacts
Oct 28 06:20:37 <charlie137> you can also add new contacts, but there are some problems
Oct 28 06:21:14 <quickdev> charlie137, no problem, we will wait until you got some basic things working, retrieve/edit/delete, such things
Oct 28 06:21:41 <charlie137> quickdev: in fact i am looking for some people to start working on it now
Oct 28 06:21:54 <charlie137> since I am not supposed to work on the framework so much
Oct 28 06:22:27 <quickdev> charlie137, abraxa, who developed some things is more or less lost?
Oct 28 06:22:42 <charlie137> no
Oct 28 06:23:03 <charlie137> Mickey told me he is just busy with his study at the moment 
Oct 28 06:23:18 <charlie137> I really hope he can contribute again to opimd\
Oct 28 06:34:59 <quickdev> charlie137, yeah, would be fine
Oct 28 06:37:49 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re8ad25f2e36e 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: 'dir' is a builtin in Python, don't shadow it
Oct 28 06:38:22 <quickdev> charlie137, but patches are welcome, right? maybe I'll dig into some code ;)
Oct 28 06:38:59 <charlie137> quickdev: sure
Oct 28 06:39:19 <charlie137> quickdev: i suggest you play with the tests in framework/tests/ dir
Oct 28 06:39:25 <charlie137> in opim.py
Oct 28 06:40:04 <charlie137> you can easily add some new unit tests
Oct 28 06:40:44 <quickdev> good starting point, thanks
Oct 28 06:50:02 <gurugentoo> which dialer does om2008.* use?
Oct 28 06:53:56 <quickdev> gurugentoo, afaik qtopia, someone should correct me if I'm wrong
Oct 28 06:54:23 <gurugentoo> thanks
Oct 28 07:44:54 <shaz> hey guys: Whats the target in moko makefile for creating a uboot?
Oct 28 07:45:15 <shaz> I did not get any with the image target
Oct 28 07:48:35 <shaz> I made image for gta01 and I found the uboot image in /home/user/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/om-gta02
Oct 28 07:48:48 <shaz> this is wierd
Oct 28 07:49:31 <shaz> while the uImage and rootfs are in /home/user/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/om-gta01
Oct 28 07:50:38 <shaz> has anyone lately built images for gta01 with makefile?
Oct 28 07:57:34 <Hopscotch> good morning
Oct 28 07:59:49 <CVirus> Guten Tag
Oct 28 08:11:35 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * rae66a5a6ace1 10/packages/python/ (6 files): python-e*: increase PR of python-efl bindings to relfect the EFL ABI
Oct 28 08:11:35 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * r05f24205eb04 10/packages/python/python-etk_svn.bb: python-etk: need DEPENDS python-evas and python-ecore
Oct 28 08:16:29 <shaz> whats the significance of site.conf in OE?
Oct 28 09:46:41 <BillyCrook_> I know much less about cellphone networks and GSM protocol than do I about core linux functionality.  Is the GSM radio implemted like a network interface? If so, do ebtables and iptables work with it?
Oct 28 09:47:16 <[df]> if you're using GPRS you mean?
Oct 28 09:47:32 <[df]> I believe it will appear as a ppp interface
Oct 28 09:47:39 <[df]> not actually tried myself though
Oct 28 09:48:18 <BillyCrook_> no.  I actually meant using GSM.  If say, I wanted to categorise all radio communication and filter what I allowed, or at least log and analyse it
Oct 28 09:48:47 <pb__> BillyCrook_: no, you don't have access to the gsm stack at that level.  it's all encapsulated in the modem.
Oct 28 09:49:27 <BillyCrook_> I just woke up, in the middle of the night, with my [samsung] phone making a seriesof transmissions in a rythmic manor that I've never heard it do before.  
Oct 28 09:49:47 <BillyCrook_> I heard them going on the speakers it happened to be near, but it left me thinking WTF is my phone doing at this hour
Oct 28 09:50:05 <cjb_ie> GSM phones do that all the time
Oct 28 09:50:25 <Wonka> BillyCrook_: GSM Location Update
Oct 28 09:50:31 <cjb_ie> every so often they check in with the network 'ditduhduh, ditduhduh'
Oct 28 09:50:34 <BillyCrook_> no.  Not like this.  It wasn't moving, and this lasted a good 30 minutes
Oct 28 09:50:45 <BillyCrook_> i didn't record it, but it wasn't normal
Oct 28 09:50:48 <cjb_ie> a phone call starts with 'ditduhduh, ditduhduh, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'
Oct 28 09:50:57 <BillyCrook_> my phone is nearly always near sopme autio amp that pics up its noises
Oct 28 09:51:13 <BillyCrook_> and it wasn't receiving a call that ever completed to the statge the phone listed it
Oct 28 09:51:23 <cjb_ie> dunno then. was the operator downloading a firmware update to it, maybe
Oct 28 09:51:30 <[df]> or the feds spying on you!
Oct 28 09:51:36 <cjb_ie> s/download/push/
Oct 28 09:51:36 <apt> cjb_ie meant: dunno then. was the operator pushing a firmware update to it, maybe
Oct 28 09:51:37 <BillyCrook_> sorry for the typos.  over the air firmware update was my first thought
Oct 28 09:51:57 <BillyCrook_> I DO NOT WANT over the air firmware updates.  thx but nothx operator
Oct 28 09:52:46 <BillyCrook_> this was a regular sequence, eacy cycle maybe 10 seconds long, consisting of a low frequency beeping, then a high, and pauses inbetween
Oct 28 09:52:53 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07stabilization/milestone4 * r133829643175 10framework/framework/persist.py: persist: readd logging
Oct 28 09:53:12 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rb4b1aa607004 10/framework/persist.py: Merge branch 'stabilization/milestone4'
Oct 28 09:53:28 <BillyCrook_> a larger pause after the high,
Oct 28 09:53:42 <cjb_ie> pity you couldn't record the sound
Oct 28 09:54:13 <BillyCrook_> I an quite familiar with the sequence of clicks that happens when a call is coming in.  I don't generally need to wait for the ringtone to pick it up because of that noise
Oct 28 09:54:32 <cjb_ie> good for freaking callers out, that :)
Oct 28 09:55:33 <BillyCrook_> cjb_ie: no shit. I hit the 'panic button' and my home directory was inaccessible before I was fully awake, so audacity probably would have shit itself
Oct 28 09:57:25 <BillyCrook_> my city's hacker group is putting together a bunch of ppl that want freerunners, and I'm in, but only if I could control the radio, or at least monitor it.  Any luck?
Oct 28 09:58:51 <BillyCrook_> (monitor = monitor what my radio is doing, not monitor other ppl's calls)
Oct 28 09:59:57 <cjb_ie> sadly, the gsm bits are essentially a black box encumbered by patents and spectrum regulation
Oct 28 10:00:12 <leinir> BillyCrook_: The problem is that if you had direct access to the GPS chip's internals, the entire system is so badly constructed that you could send a nasty package to the tower and kill the network
Oct 28 10:00:59 <[df]> *or*, if you knew what went on inside, the feds couldn't spy on you
Oct 28 10:01:09 <BillyCrook_> leinir: well, I could build a pipe bomb, and kill the cell network's president, but I have no intrest in doing that either
Oct 28 10:01:16 <leinir> [df]: Bah, of course they could, you'd just *know* they did it ;)
Oct 28 10:01:22 <[df]> :D
Oct 28 10:01:26 <BillyCrook_> I don't think anyone's sphying on me.  The phone's not transmitting, and its got shit storage
Oct 28 10:02:07 <BillyCrook_> I am confident I'd know something was up just because there's no space to store anything on this crap phone I have now, and I can tell when its transmitting
Oct 28 10:02:08 <cjb_ie> BillyCrook_: that you know of ;)
Oct 28 10:02:36 <pb__> on the plus side, since the gsm stack is corralled in its own little sealed world, the feds couldn't do a great deal to the interesting bits of your FR even if they did end up owning your modem.
Oct 28 10:02:37 <BillyCrook_> whe it transmits, it creates interference on audio amps that wakes me up at 4:30AM
Oct 28 10:02:50 <leinir> People can spy on me all they want, seriously, if they go looking, they bloody well asked for it ;)
Oct 28 10:03:39 <BillyCrook_> if the feds were spying on me, I would be most outraged at their wasting tax money.
Oct 28 10:03:57 <BillyCrook_> I mostly just want to understand and control, completely, my own property.
Oct 28 10:04:15 <BillyCrook_> I don't let the ISP blackbox my network hardware
Oct 28 10:04:45 <pb__> BillyCrook_: I think you are out of luck as far as GSM goes.
Oct 28 10:04:54 <pb__> I don't think there are any GSM implementations that will let you do what you want.
Oct 28 10:04:59 <BillyCrook_> pb_: any other tech that might>
Oct 28 10:04:59 <leinir> As much as we'd love GSM to be opened, it just won't happen :)
Oct 28 10:05:00 <BillyCrook_> ?
Oct 28 10:05:07 <leinir> 3G is semi-open...
Oct 28 10:05:28 <mjr> umm, no?
Oct 28 10:05:36 <BillyCrook_> any chance there'll ever be a 3g openmoko?
Oct 28 10:06:01 <mjr> BillyCrook_, well obviously. If the company doesn't die first.
Oct 28 10:06:51 <mjr> It's also patented to hell and back, costs a bundle and the chipsets aren't often quite free software friendly.
Oct 28 10:06:52 <sakkara> gta04 may be 3g, gta03 wont...
Oct 28 10:06:52 <BillyCrook_> heh, best of luck to you guys.  I appreciate the project.  Just don't have $400 to drop on a phone, when I don't even particularly like using telephones to start with
Oct 28 10:07:19 <Wonka> that's why i want a linux smartphone
Oct 28 10:07:52 <Wonka> my FR is more a GPS device atm. and it will become a device for taking notes, managing appointments, being my alarm clock...
Oct 28 10:08:22 <BillyCrook_> has anyone at openmoko proposed integrating a pager receiver, and an electrical transmitter disconnect? so the phone could "receive calls" without transmitting
Oct 28 10:08:45 <DocScrutinizer> sakkara: BZZZ, wrong
Oct 28 10:08:50 <Wonka> if i need to carry some piece of electronics to be able to call someone if i really need to, it should better be able to do other nice stuff too
Oct 28 10:09:00 <leinir> Well... The Freerunner isn't really a phone :) It's an embedded linux computer with accellerometer controls, touch screen input, wifi, a GPS module, and a GSM chip :)
Oct 28 10:09:04 <BillyCrook_> (while the caller is ringing, a page is sent, and if you "accept the call" the transmitter engages, you join the cell network, and call in to the pbx where the caller's ring is coming from)
Oct 28 10:09:38 <DocScrutinizer> sakkara: actually it's not decided
Oct 28 10:09:47 <Wonka> BillyCrook_: don't think so. pagers are replaced by SMS today.
Oct 28 10:09:49 <BillyCrook_> leinir: here here. you're the first person other than myself I've heard with that sort of common sense about what those electronic things are we talk into in a long long time
Oct 28 10:10:06 <Wonka> leinir: exactly right
Oct 28 10:10:15 <cjb_ie> BillyCrook_: but who wants to pay for incoming calls? (except north americans)
Oct 28 10:10:27 <BillyCrook_> Wonka: there are times (military, medical) when transmitting, is not an option
Oct 28 10:10:49 <Wonka> my Siemens S65 cell phone is a pocket watch with alarm clock and calendar, and oh, yes, it can make phone calls too
Oct 28 10:11:05 <BillyCrook_> cjb_ie: i'm in NA, so I'd pay either way
Oct 28 10:11:20 <cjb_ie> BillyCrook_: right, but most people aren't :p
Oct 28 10:11:38 <BillyCrook_> the other way this could work is the pbs starts calling you every second while it pages the info to you, so s soon as the cell network has registered, you get the call
Oct 28 10:11:40 <Wonka> BillyCrook_: medical? get that equipment sorted out that gets interfered by GSM - it's too old
Oct 28 10:11:52 <cjb_ie> paying for incoming calls seems to be peculiar to north american cellcos
Oct 28 10:11:55 <BillyCrook_> Wonka: that means cutting human beings open sometimes
Oct 28 10:12:23 <BillyCrook_> Wonka: technology shouldn't force arbitrary actions in people. especially putting a knife to someone's chest
Oct 28 10:13:18 <Wonka> BillyCrook_: urgh. especially heart pacers should not be interfered with by GSM - you just cannot tell that yuppie next to you on the bus to switch his cellphone off...
Oct 28 10:13:38 <BillyCrook_> cjb_ie: actualy, we don't pay for any calls.  We get like a zillion minutes, and we pay for extra minutes so cheaply its really not worth complaining about
Oct 28 10:14:05 <cjb_ie> BillyCrook_: you pay for your zillion minutes as part of the confusopoly though
Oct 28 10:14:25 <BillyCrook_> pacemakers aren't the only things, butmy point is what's done is done, and nobody's digging open their chest because of it
Oct 28 10:15:10 <BillyCrook_> cjb_ie: yeah, whatever, I don't care or want to argue about paying for minutes.  I speak on my cell and landline a total of like 60 minutes a month and I make enough sallary, so i DO NOT CARE what it costs
Oct 28 10:15:23 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03john_lee * r4732 10/trunk/src/target/audio/om-gta02/gsmhandset.state: Use gsmhandset.state from FDOMizer20081023.tar.gz
Oct 28 10:15:43 <cjb_ie> BillyCrook_: bully for you. many other people on this planet aren't as fortunate :p
Oct 28 10:16:10 <BillyCrook_> cjb_ie: that's ok, they had the choice to be as fortunate if they worked for a living
Oct 28 10:16:24 <sakkara> ...
Oct 28 10:16:39 <cjb_ie> yes, because jobs are available everywhere. well spotted that man.
Oct 28 10:17:04 <BillyCrook_> so basically the message I have so far is there is not to date, and will not likely ever exist (because of patents) a phone that lets you control exactly how it communicates with the cell network at an RF packet level)
Oct 28 10:17:05 <mjr> so basically, those zillion minutes that you pay for as part of your plan are useless. Way to go paying for nothing and being happy about it.
Oct 28 10:17:36 <cjb_ie> BillyCrook_: patents, and spectrum / radio licensing restrictions
Oct 28 10:18:05 <mjr> patents aren't really the main issue, rather the latter, yes
Oct 28 10:18:15 <cjb_ie> i.e. the fcc and its equivalent orgs DO NOT WANT gsm radios out there that can operate outside the gsm spec.
Oct 28 10:18:59 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * r5d3fd2febc8b 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: sane-srcrevs.inc: update openmoko-alsa-scenarios rev.
Oct 28 10:19:33 <BillyCrook_> yeah.  I don't really care what the FCC wants.  I don't want to operate outside the spec, unless the spec is flawed or infringes my soverignty.
Oct 28 10:20:28 <BillyCrook_> alot of really smart people have reverse engineered lesser understood things than GSM, like proprietary hardware drivers with undefined registers and such
Oct 28 10:20:40 <BillyCrook_> nouveau nvidia driver comes to mind.  That works surprisingly well
Oct 28 10:22:04 <BillyCrook_> well, thanks for the lovely discussion...  It's back to sleep for now unless the phone puts its own battery back in, and starts updating its firmware over the air again.
Oct 28 10:22:15 <cjb_ie> right, and in that case it's quite trivial to find out what register accesses are actually happening. with something like GSM, you've got a microcontroller with its own firmware sitting in between you and the actual radio device. you may have a serial channel or two to the microcontroller, where you only get to 'see' a limited range of registers (which probably aren't even registers on the RF modem) via AT commands
Oct 28 10:23:46 <cjb_ie> it's an awful lot harder to probe into a black-box piece of silicon, than it is to probe an exposed bus.
Oct 28 10:29:24 <Mononoke>  /win 11
Oct 28 10:29:29 <Mononoke> pardon
Oct 28 10:29:40 <cjb_ie> Mononoke: http://cjb.ie/irssi.txt may help you
Oct 28 10:29:47 <cjb_ie> assuming you're using irssi
Oct 28 10:38:54 <sicu> hey! anyone know how i can use osm .bin files with navit and tangoGPS (.bin @ http://maps.navit-project.org/download/ )
Oct 28 10:44:04 <dns53> the info is on the navit wiki on how to create the bin file, then you need to edit the navit config to only contain that bin
Oct 28 10:46:02 <tomboy64> i just tried to checkout illume from e's repository, an earlier revision. illume has been deleted in the recent revisions.
Oct 28 10:46:11 <tomboy64> now svn says it can't find illume
Oct 28 10:46:21 <tomboy64> svn co -r 36514 http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/illume illume
Oct 28 10:46:23 <tomboy64> svn: »/svn/e/!svn/bc/37267/trunk/illume« Pfad nicht gefunden
Oct 28 10:51:30 <sicu> dns53: ok thx ... and can i use this .bin file with TangoGPS as well ?
Oct 28 10:51:44 <dns53> tango gps uses png's
Oct 28 10:52:18 <dns53> if you want that working on your moko i would load tango on your computer to download all the images you want then copy them to your phone
Oct 28 10:54:03 <sicu> dns53: ok, thought i might get away with having just one set of files ... but guess not
Oct 28 10:54:07 <sicu> thx though =D
Oct 28 10:54:33 <sicu> btw, anyone know how can i unmount /dev/mmcblkp01 when it keeps saying: umount: /media/card: device is busy ?
Oct 28 10:55:16 <dns53> qpe is using it, stop x if you want to unmount
Oct 28 13:58:17 <Dave> It's quiet... too quiet...
Oct 28 14:00:05 <Kensan_> Dave: psst... you may awaken rasters gang...
Oct 28 14:07:03 <Zorkman> euhm and like that it works...
Oct 28 14:07:04 <Zorkman> done nothing :)
Oct 28 14:18:11 <Dave> :)
Oct 28 14:25:43 <tomboy64> uhm
Oct 28 14:25:55 <tomboy64> how do i make bitbake accept "peg revisions"?
Oct 28 14:26:24 <tomboy64> e.g. the directory has vanished (raster deleted it) in the current revision but bitbake shall pull it in a earlier revision?
Oct 28 14:26:40 <tomboy64> in svn this is done by adding @revision to the tree
Oct 28 14:26:54 <tomboy64> but how can i accomplish this in a .bb file?
Oct 28 14:27:10 <raster>  sane-srcrevs.inc
Oct 28 14:29:19 <raster> nb
Oct 28 14:29:24 <raster> illume has moved to e's own trtee
Oct 28 14:29:29 <raster> no need for an illume package anymore
Oct 28 14:29:39 <tomboy64> uhm
Oct 28 14:29:40 <raster> e offers illume as a config profile option now
Oct 28 14:29:49 <raster> i've updated my local bb set etc. today
Oct 28 14:30:02 <tomboy64> shr testing still wants it as a package
Oct 28 14:30:14 <raster> it'll need to change
Oct 28 14:30:23 <tomboy64> i'm sure of that :-D
Oct 28 14:30:23 <raster> if it wants to follow bleeding edje svn
Oct 28 14:30:30 <raster> or it needs to make use of sane-srcrevs.inc
Oct 28 14:30:37 <raster> and pin the svnrev like i do myself
Oct 28 14:30:39 <raster> and om does
Oct 28 14:30:43 <raster> and oe/fso do
Oct 28 14:30:50 <tomboy64> well, it will come over time
Oct 28 14:31:11 <tomboy64> but how can i do a workaround - add sane-svnrevs to inherit?
Oct 28 14:31:15 <tomboy64> it wants a bbclass
Oct 28 14:32:18 <raster> ummm
Oct 28 14:32:21 <raster> probably
Oct 28 14:32:26 <raster> for the others it sset up by defaulkt
Oct 28 14:32:50 <raster> os i just adjust the EFL SRVREV whenevr i update to verisy that that svnrev 1. has no bugs, 2. builds, 3. works as intended
Oct 28 14:32:55 <raster> (when u build an image)
Oct 28 14:33:02 <cdrum> hey folks. dumb question. I installed a daily build. What package can I install that gives me "xterm"? Anyone know?
Oct 28 14:34:48 <d-b> xterm ?
Oct 28 14:35:35 <cdrum> yeah, 2008.8 has it preinstalled
Oct 28 14:35:59 <cdrum> i can install openmoko-terminal2, but that uses a lot of screen real estate 
Oct 28 14:36:08 <cdrum> would prefer to use the simple xterm for terminal stuff
Oct 28 14:37:16 <tomboy64> cdrum: xterm
Oct 28 14:37:39 <tomboy64> opkg install xterm
Oct 28 14:38:08 <cdrum> hmm... ok... that's what I originally thought....  guess xterm isn't in the testing repository then
Oct 28 14:38:50 <tomboy64> huh?
Oct 28 14:39:05 <cdrum> yeah
Oct 28 14:39:12 <cdrum> when i do a opkg install xterm
Oct 28 14:39:13 <cdrum> i get
Oct 28 14:39:20 <cdrum> root@om-gta02:/etc/opkg# opkg install xterm
Oct 28 14:39:20 <cdrum> An error ocurred, return value: 2.
Oct 28 14:39:46 <tomboy64> yes, you're correct, it isn't
Oct 28 14:39:48 <cdrum> but installing other packages seem to work fine (well, i tested openmoko-terminal2, for example, it downloaded and isntalled)
Oct 28 14:39:56 <tomboy64> but it's in the stock 2008.8 repo
Oct 28 14:39:58 <tomboy64> use that
Oct 28 14:40:03 <tomboy64> that's what i use for 2008.9
Oct 28 14:40:03 <Kensan_> tomboy64: use rev=$revid in the SRC_URI
Oct 28 14:41:16 <cdrum> ok thanks, tomboy64 - will do that
Oct 28 14:41:17 <Zorkman> is there something like kmod-cifs (to mount remote windows filesystems available for the FR) ?
Oct 28 14:43:46 <tomboy64> Kensan: that's the problem: bitbake can't handle peg-revisions
Oct 28 14:44:54 <Zorkman> anybody still using googlemaps with tangogps?
Oct 28 14:45:02 <Zorkman> the links in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TangoGPS#Using_Google_Maps_with_tangoGPS don't seem to work anymore
Oct 28 14:47:31 <tomboy64> hmm
Oct 28 14:47:38 <tomboy64> Kensan: never mind, it seems to work now
Oct 28 14:55:40 <CIA-50> openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * r63ec9fb9ad69 10/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: openmoko.conf: fix an error in ROOTFS_POSTPROCESS_COMMAND
Oct 28 14:57:57 <Dave> holy crap
Oct 28 15:06:21 <toggles_w> Dave:!
Oct 28 15:08:28 <zash> NINJA
Oct 28 15:11:00 <prosoft> Hello
Oct 28 15:14:17 <prosoft> I stumbled upon the openmoko via koolu, I was looking but I could not find a rough release date for the GTA03. Is there any idea when the release may be?
Oct 28 15:14:55 <Hire1> half 2009
Oct 28 15:15:05 <toggles_w> 1004.5?
Oct 28 15:16:15 <prosoft> Thanks, another question - Are the older Neo phones still available? The Freerunner costs a bit more then I can afford, and I was hoping to get the Neo and work with that
Oct 28 15:17:24 <leinir> Hmm... A few people are wanting to get rid of theirs to get a freerunner in stead, try posting that request on the community list :)
Oct 28 15:18:25 <prosoft> Thanks
Oct 28 15:22:55 <prosoft> I guess the stupid question becomes... given the differences between the two phones, would it be worth trying to help port Android over using a 1973.. Or Should I just wait a couple months to when I could afford a Freerunner
Oct 28 15:25:36 <pengu1n> moo koo
Oct 28 15:38:06 <Kensan_> prosoft: it might be hard finding a Neo1973 since it was only produced in small numbers.
Oct 28 15:38:45 <SpeedEvil> About a couple of thousand.
Oct 28 15:38:58 <Kensan_> SpeedEvil: afaik around 4000
Oct 28 15:39:16 <SpeedEvil> I suspect that's of the same order of FRs around
Oct 28 15:40:26 <Kensan_> SpeedEvil: hm I think they sold more FR's in the meantime since the production is ongoing.
Oct 28 15:40:31 * Dave throws a snowball at Kensan
Oct 28 15:40:41 <vininim_> might explain why some distributors are having stock issues.
Oct 28 15:40:50 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07stabilization/milestone4 * rf112e62e169c 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/ (channel.py unsolicited.py): 
Oct 28 15:40:50 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Fix TI calypso recamping logic (#190)
Oct 28 15:40:50 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: The timer is now removed if we disable GSM resource.
Oct 28 15:40:50 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07stabilization/milestone4 * r1e3c0641e262 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: Correctly match on SMS category in RetrieveMessage
Oct 28 15:40:52 * Kensan_ catches Dave's snowball and throws it at his Zire's
Oct 28 15:41:06 <Kensan_> Dave: don't mess with a swiss when it comes to snow
Oct 28 15:41:25 <prosoft> Thanks for the info, I'll be back in an hour, if anyone's on.. I have a couple questions
Oct 28 15:41:32 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 15:41:38 <Dave> nooooooooo my zire army
Oct 28 15:41:49 <Kensan_> prosoft: you might want to talk to bricode about Android. He's working on the Android port for Koolu
Oct 28 15:42:27 <SpeedEvil> Kensan: do you have an actual source for either number?
Oct 28 15:43:04 <Kensan_> SpeedEvil: no, it's numbers I remember "fainlty" from the ML's and irc. so I might be totally wrong *heh*
Oct 28 15:44:26 <bricode> prosoft: You can see updates at forum.koolu.org or at wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Android 
Oct 28 15:44:58 <wilhelmb> does anyone know how big memorycards neo freerunner can adress?
Oct 28 15:45:20 <Zorkman> 8giga
Oct 28 15:46:06 <Zorkman> bricode: do you have any ETA on a usable, working image?
Oct 28 15:46:06 <bernt> this is for the sdcard inside, but with usb outside it could be more ;-)
Oct 28 15:46:48 <bricode> Zorkman: Still in the thick of things. I expect to have something working before the end of Nov.
Oct 28 15:47:10 <Zorkman> ok, thanks for the info (and the work you're putting into it)
Oct 28 15:47:35 <Dave> :o
Oct 28 15:48:33 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r46fd8ed54877 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
Oct 28 15:48:33 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: Merge commit 'origin/stabilization/milestone4'
Oct 28 15:48:33 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: Conflicts:
Oct 28 15:48:33 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org:  framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py
Oct 28 15:48:33 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: (changed dir -> direction since dir is a python builtin)
Oct 28 15:48:58 <wilhelmb> i want to buy a freerunner, and connect it to a homeserver. so the question is: can i use filesharing over my home-network?
Oct 28 15:49:26 <wilhelmb> with wlan
Oct 28 15:52:20 <Martix> Zorkman: anybody tested FR with 16GB SD? e.g.: http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(2702)-SDSDQ-016G-A11M-SanDisk_microSDHC_16GB_Card.aspx
Oct 28 15:52:40 <Dave> xora
Oct 28 15:53:18 <XorA> Dave: what?
Oct 28 15:54:05 <Dave> Hello again
Oct 28 15:54:40 <XorA> heh, your gonna say that a lot this afteroon :-D
Oct 28 15:54:58 <Dave> hah!
Oct 28 15:55:14 * XorA is only getting internet for about 5 mins at a go
Oct 28 15:55:28 <Dave> Seems like :P
Oct 28 15:55:35 <Dave> whee
Oct 28 15:55:36 <Zorkman> Martix: not that i know of
Oct 28 15:57:57 <Kensan_> wilhelmb: The FR theoretically supports all SDHC cards so up to 32 Gig, but afaik such cards are not available yet.
Oct 28 16:01:10 <SpeedEvil> You could use a SD-microSD adaptor in principle to test it at the moment - but...
Oct 28 16:01:15 * SpeedEvil stabs the SD committee
Oct 28 16:01:43 <SpeedEvil> It requires a new standard to go over 32G. Which will hit in maybe 6 months.
Oct 28 16:02:01 <SpeedEvil> It's overwhelmingly likely that >32G will be a simple software mod.
Oct 28 16:02:11 <SpeedEvil> All that'll be needed is a new kernel.
Oct 28 16:08:52 <PBeck> hallo
Oct 28 16:09:58 <Dave> Greetings
Oct 28 16:12:56 <Dave> There goes Xora again :)
Oct 28 16:17:18 <DocScrutinizer2> hi MrButtle ;-)
Oct 28 16:18:20 <DocScrutinizer2> got your 27B-6 ?
Oct 28 16:18:50 <Ke> you terrorists you
Oct 28 16:18:55 <Dave> Hey Joerg :D
Oct 28 16:20:18 <DocScrutinizer2> Dave: ask MrTuttle to install a bypass in your FR ;-)
Oct 28 16:22:43 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 16:22:45 <Dave> okay
Oct 28 16:23:08 <MrTuttle> DocScrutinizer2, this is no recording
Oct 28 16:23:14 <MrTuttle> DocScrutinizer2, thank you for calling central services
Oct 28 16:23:53 <MrTuttle> yeah, witches^H^H^H^t3rror1sts everywhere
Oct 28 16:24:09 <DocScrutinizer2> MrTuttle: that's Roh's text ;-)
Oct 28 16:24:17 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 16:24:18 <MrTuttle> hehe
Oct 28 16:24:30 <MrTuttle> have to run, c u l8er
Oct 28 16:26:21 <Zorkman> openmoko-mediaplayer2 is still the version withouth the icons... although there are good icons available..
Oct 28 16:27:41 <bumbl> Dave: |3 0 |\/| |3
Oct 28 16:31:09 <chi> will the neo keep charging when it is suspended on 2008.9?
Oct 28 16:31:38 <DocScrutinizer2> should
Oct 28 16:32:04 <chi> k
Oct 28 16:32:58 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 16:33:02 <Dave> Hello chi!
Oct 28 16:33:03 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 16:33:13 <chi> hey Dave =D
Oct 28 16:33:20 <Dave> How's it going? :)
Oct 28 16:33:35 <chi> good good just coding 
Oct 28 16:33:38 <chi> how are you?
Oct 28 16:33:44 <Zorkman> any has coherence running on his FR (make it act like a media server, heard it works nicely)
Oct 28 16:34:04 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 16:34:13 <Dave> watching the surprise snow with awe
Oct 28 16:34:23 <chi> oooo fun
Oct 28 16:34:45 <chi> plan on catching some on your tongue?
Oct 28 16:35:30 <Dave> no...
Oct 28 16:35:34 <DocScrutinizer2> bah!!
Oct 28 16:35:35 <chi> hehe
Oct 28 16:35:36 <Dave> I did get covered in it once already
Oct 28 16:35:36 <Dave> :p
Oct 28 16:35:54 * DocScrutinizer2 *hates* snow
Oct 28 16:35:54 <leinir> Covered in it? ;)
Oct 28 16:35:56 <leinir> Sounds kinky ;)
Oct 28 16:36:02 <Dave> hahaha
Oct 28 16:36:09 * Dave spanks leinir
Oct 28 16:36:19 * leinir meeps! :)
Oct 28 16:37:10 <bumbl> Joerg: bah snow rocks
Oct 28 16:45:25 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 16:45:38 <Dave> silly xora
Oct 28 16:47:30 <lindi-> hrm, managed to cause kernel panic by using btscanner from laptop
Oct 28 16:51:13 <wilhelmb> can i use filesharing over wlan with the freerunner. watch movies, listen to music etc
Oct 28 16:51:17 <wilhelmb> ???
Oct 28 16:51:28 <SpeedEvil> In principle, yes
Oct 28 16:51:43 <SpeedEvil> In practice, not easily with software installed.
Oct 28 16:52:04 <viq> Not with the sucky wireless and sucky graphics chipset performance ;)
Oct 28 16:52:25 <SpeedEvil> The mp4 decoder should work adequately.
Oct 28 16:52:28 <SpeedEvil> But...
Oct 28 16:52:39 <SpeedEvil> The software is _really_ not there yet
Oct 28 16:53:14 <prosoft> bricode, still around
Oct 28 16:54:03 <bricode> prosoft: Yep.
Oct 28 16:55:16 <prosoft> I'm definately not the best coder out there, but I'll help as much as I can right now, though I got some limits to explain
Oct 28 16:56:13 <prosoft> I entered the Marine Corps due to being laid off from my old job where I was training to be a CNC tech and I needed someway to support myself...
Oct 28 16:56:36 <prosoft> My biggest limitation isn't that I'm a Marine - but rather I'm currently at my MOS school
Oct 28 16:56:57 <lindi-> SpeedEvil: which software is not there yet? ;)
Oct 28 16:56:58 <bricode> prosoft: You're looking to help with Android on Freerunner?
Oct 28 16:57:00 <summatusmentis> MOS?
Oct 28 16:57:06 <lindi-> SpeedEvil: just patch mplayer for mpeg decoding?
Oct 28 16:57:16 <prosoft> I won't be able to download anything more then 100mb until I fly up to Wisconsin to see my wife
Oct 28 16:57:30 <prosoft> bricode: I'm up for doing anything I can to help
Oct 28 16:57:36 <SpeedEvil> lindi-: the graphics 'card' is connected over a 7 meg/second bus.
Oct 28 16:57:45 <SpeedEvil> The card can in principle do mp4 decoding.
Oct 28 16:57:55 <lindi-> SpeedEvil: but with mpeg-4 decoding that should not be a problem
Oct 28 16:58:11 <SpeedEvil> But if you don't use the mp4 decoding, as much of the software doesn't, it's a real bottleneck.
Oct 28 16:58:27 <bricode> prosoft: Well, for the moment, I would recommend waiting to be honest. There are a few major things that need to be ironed out before there's a stable base that is usable to improve.
Oct 28 16:58:31 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, the only software that uses it is a version of mplayer that's been hacked to, and it takes over the whole screen.
Oct 28 16:58:38 <prosoft> But the MOS, (Military Occupational Specialty) school I'm at right now is what's going to limit me for now 
Oct 28 16:58:45 <lindi-> SpeedEvil: sure, but you'll see the movie
Oct 28 16:58:49 <SpeedEvil> However, I haven't really kept up, as I have no FR
Oct 28 16:59:03 <prosoft> bricode: Ok, sounds good, honestly it's be eaiser for me to wait, like I said, got some limitations..
Oct 28 16:59:14 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: you of all people didn't buy a freerunner?
Oct 28 16:59:14 <prosoft> Is there anything I should see about getting when I see my wife next weekend?
Oct 28 16:59:47 <bricode> prosoft: Not really. The source tree for Android is 2.1 GB.
Oct 28 16:59:57 <prosoft> For the most part download wise, we've still got our internet up in Wisconsin, so I can get anything I may need there easily
Oct 28 17:00:21 <wilhelmb> have anyone tried ubuntu mobile on the freerunner?
Oct 28 17:00:48 <prosoft> bricode: yeah, that's what got me last night, I was thinking no more then 1 GB.. if there's anything that's needed .. I'm willing to help out the best I can
Oct 28 17:00:57 <lindi-> wilhelmb: does that still use their proprietary launchpad bug reporting system?
Oct 28 17:01:22 <lindi-> prosoft: doind development without internet access is quite difficult
Oct 28 17:01:29 <prosoft> Dec. 11th I get out of here and get to my station which is looking like Camp Lejeune right now.. so just before Christmas and right after I'm free
Oct 28 17:01:38 <bricode> prosoft: Thanks. Good to know. People in the community are still getting the build system stabilized. 
Oct 28 17:02:12 <prosoft> I've got the net - but I can only do so much, hence - if there's anything massive I should get, I'll need to get it when I'm up North, I'll probably get Android's sorce for shits and giggles
Oct 28 17:02:17 <prosoft> *source
Oct 28 17:06:28 <orospakr> hmm, in Qt 4.4.1 on my Neo1973, it seems that the display off setting doesn't do anything.  Dim display and full suspend work great, though.
Oct 28 17:06:40 <lindi-> prosoft: i would fetch debian source and binary archive if i really had to develop this without network access
Oct 28 17:06:58 <prosoft> thank lindi-
Oct 28 17:07:42 <lindi-> (i already keep a local copy of all source code of debian for fast access, hard disks are cheap anyway)
Oct 28 17:08:17 <orospakr> lindi-, that can't be a small amount of data...
Oct 28 17:08:27 <lindi-> orospakr: the sources are less than 30G
Oct 28 17:08:36 <lindi-> so no big deal nowadays
Oct 28 17:09:03 <orospakr> really? huh!
Oct 28 17:09:15 <orospakr> lindi-, of all the packages in debian's repository?
Oct 28 17:09:27 <lindi-> orospakr: yeah
Oct 28 17:09:33 <prosoft> what's the going price for an hdd now days.. 160GB for $60? Yeah, hdd's are pretty cheap
Oct 28 17:09:42 <lindi-> orospakr: oldstable, stable, testing, unstable
Oct 28 17:09:50 <lindi-> orospakr: seems to be 43G now :)
Oct 28 17:09:51 <Sargun_Screen> hm.
Oct 28 17:10:00 <Sargun_Screen> my boss is buying 3 FRs
Oct 28 17:10:10 <lindi-> orospakr: but it's easy to keep it up-to-date with rsync
Oct 28 17:10:28 <lindi-> orospakr: i initially started to mirror it since i wanted to run "grep" over the whole archive
Oct 28 17:10:40 <orospakr> hah, that would take a while. ;)
Oct 28 17:10:50 <lindi-> less than a day anyway
Oct 28 17:11:17 <lindi-> orospakr: i can put multiple search terms to the same grep command so that i can queue interesting search terms and then start the grep and look at the results tomorrow
Oct 28 17:11:48 <lindi-> orospakr: for example http://iki.fi/lindi/getenv.png is done with this. it shows what packages use what environment variables
Oct 28 17:13:10 <orospakr> whoa!
Oct 28 17:13:34 <orospakr> that's actually kind of useful, except for the big clusterfuck in the middle.
Oct 28 17:13:47 <orospakr> perhaps if it was searchable?
Oct 28 17:13:56 <lindi-> orospakr: the SVG version is searchable
Oct 28 17:13:56 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: use an indexing service (like kerry beagle) to ndex the whole 43GB *once*
Oct 28 17:14:11 <lindi-> orospakr: http://iki.fi/lindi/getenv.svg
Oct 28 17:14:13 <Sargun_Screen> do you guys think OM is making enough $?
Oct 28 17:14:27 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but it changes all the time and i want to use regular expressions
Oct 28 17:15:34 <lindi-> orospakr: but yes, i couldn't figure out how to make the middle part easy to read
Oct 28 17:15:45 <DocScrutinizer> ok then, so you'll have to go with grep. maybe use in a FOR loop or a FIND --cmd to parallelize on a multiprocessor CPU
Oct 28 17:16:09 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: the hdd is the bottleneck
Oct 28 17:16:23 <DocScrutinizer> yup, maybe
Oct 28 17:16:47 <DocScrutinizer> so get Urself a raid ;-)
Oct 28 17:16:56 <lindi-> i can wait
Oct 28 17:17:03 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Oct 28 17:17:14 <DocScrutinizer> ot me, have to leave now, for dinner
Oct 28 17:17:25 <DocScrutinizer> s/ot/ok/
Oct 28 17:17:26 <apt> DocScrutinizer meant: ok me, have to leave now, for dinner
Oct 28 17:17:44 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: or SSD
Oct 28 17:18:18 <Sargun_Screen> dinner? what are you - human?
Oct 28 17:18:28 <lindi-> Martix: how would ssd help?
Oct 28 17:18:29 <DocScrutinizer> actually SSD isn't that much higher BW than a good HD
Oct 28 17:18:46 <lindi-> Martix: i am not doing any significant seeking
Oct 28 17:19:02 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: exactly
Oct 28 17:19:06 <lindi-> Martix: (i run grep for the tar archive, i don't extract the tar first)
Oct 28 17:19:14 <Sargun_Screen> DocScrutinizer: did you see the intel ssd?
Oct 28 17:19:17 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: Intel has faster SDD than HDD
Oct 28 17:19:21 <Sargun_Screen> its fucking amazing...
Oct 28 17:19:40 <lindi-> Martix: but i'd use multiple HDDs if it really mattered here
Oct 28 17:20:52 <Sargun_Screen> ping.
Oct 28 17:21:12 <Martix> lindi-: DocScrutinizer http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-i-got-one-of-new-intel-ssds.html
Oct 28 17:22:18 <lindi-> Martix: yeah but again in this use it does not matter :)
Oct 28 17:36:06 <StylusEater> howdy.  I've read the freerunner with qtopia is somewhat usable as a day-to-day phone... has anyone in the continental US used it sucessful on a day-to-day basis to place/receive calls?
Oct 28 17:38:27 <[df]> I'm not in the US, but I'd advise you not to buy it with the expectation that you'll be able to use it as your main phone at this point
Oct 28 17:39:39 <StylusEater> [df]: are you aware of estimates (or estimates of estimates ... :-) ) on a time frame for such functionality? 
Oct 28 17:39:58 <[df]> no :(
Oct 28 17:40:27 <[df]> some people are using it as their main phone, but it depends on a number of factors - location, provider etc
Oct 28 17:41:19 <[df]> it's entirely possible that this iteration of the hardware is simply not good enough for general use
Oct 28 17:41:49 <[df]> that's somewhat pessimistic, but you shouldn't buy the thing with false expectations
Oct 28 17:43:57 <StylusEater> [df]: I understand.  I have a 1973, and it's a tad bit slow. :-)
Oct 28 17:44:29 <StylusEater> [df]: thanks for the heads up
Oct 28 17:49:14 <[df]> StylusEater: well I guess you bought the 1973 for a reason?
Oct 28 17:49:42 <lindi-> [df]: i haven't noticed any real hardware issues
Oct 28 17:50:00 <lindi-> [df]: mostly i'm bit surprised by openmomo inc.'s software develoment decisions
Oct 28 17:50:17 <[df]> well it's hard to say what is a hardware issue tbh
Oct 28 17:50:31 <[df]> mine's currently not really useable for calls because of the gsm buzz
Oct 28 18:12:13 <prosoft> I was reading about the gsm buzz... no luck on fixing it? On the bug report there were a few different things that some people were able to do to fix the issue, or at least help it
Oct 28 18:12:17 <prosoft> sorry.. that was for [df]
Oct 28 18:12:33 <[df]> not so far
Oct 28 18:12:47 <[df]> I have found that it depends on how I hold the phone
Oct 28 18:13:01 <[df]> if I hold it with two fingers from the top and bottom it goes away
Oct 28 18:13:41 <[df]> I've thought of trying a bluetooth headset but the reports I've heard of them are not goodd
Oct 28 18:13:42 <prosoft> heh, I find the same thing with my Nokia phone - except the if I hold it on the bottom with two fingers I get just enough signal to talk to my wife
Oct 28 18:13:51 <[df]> heh
Oct 28 18:14:33 <prosoft> I'm tempted to get one honestly, but $400 is pushing it.. especially when I've got more important things to get that work
Oct 28 18:14:35 <[df]> my nokia either works or it doesn't though
Oct 28 18:14:47 <[df]> maybe that's the issue
Oct 28 18:15:33 <[df]> well, I have a freerunner because I believe in what OM are doing
Oct 28 18:15:58 <[df]> and I couldn't bring myself to buy something like an iphone because I don't want a computer that I'm not in control of
Oct 28 18:16:20 <GNUtoo> hello, is it possible to force udhcpc to be the default dhcp client in /etc/network/interfaces ?
Oct 28 18:16:51 <prosoft> The only reason I'd get a Freerunner would be because I believe in what they're doing.. but for something that may not be usable for me - Newly married - I've got a couple more important things to spend money on, like a bed :D
Oct 28 18:17:15 <[df]> GNUtoo: I guess you could uninstall other dhcp clients?
Oct 28 18:17:56 <[df]> prosoft: sure, makes sense
Oct 28 18:18:23 <[df]> I think if people buy the fr expecting it to be a working phone it will only damage the cause tbh
Oct 28 18:18:51 <prosoft> I know better then expect it to be perfect - honestly, what would stop me from buying it right now is the noise problem..
Oct 28 18:19:42 <prosoft> I want something that I can tinker on and help other fix, this would be a perfect project to work on for me, partly because I need a new cell phone - which would only make it a big plus if I could at least hack it together to allow me to call people
Oct 28 18:20:12 <GNUtoo> [df], good idea i'll try
Oct 28 18:20:49 <prosoft> Otherwise I'm all for it, now I just need to get out of my MOS school here and get my computer up and running, never thought I could have withdrawls from not having my computer
Oct 28 18:21:04 <prosoft> and only makes it worse that I can do most things except the most 'fun
Oct 28 18:21:05 <prosoft> 'fun' from the computers here
Oct 28 18:22:38 <Dave> Sargun :p
Oct 28 18:22:49 <GNUtoo> [df], i don't think it will work as there are things that specificly depends on dhclient such as connman-plugin-connman-dhclient and i bet qtopia won't connect if i remove them
Oct 28 18:23:32 <GNUtoo> but mabe qtopia doesn't  use /etc/network/interfaces ?
Oct 28 18:26:45 <[df]> why do you particularly want to use udhcpd?
Oct 28 18:27:26 <GNUtoo> [df], basically i want wifi to  automagically work under qtopia om2008.9
Oct 28 18:27:37 <GNUtoo> and dhclient seems not to work
Oct 28 18:27:52 <GNUtoo> at least it did last time i tried
Oct 28 18:28:06 <lindi-> GNUtoo: "not work"?
Oct 28 18:28:18 <GNUtoo> i'll retry
Oct 28 18:30:17 <GNUtoo> lindi-, i'm retrying and it seems that dhclient never exits...
Oct 28 18:31:07 <lindi-> GNUtoo: tcpdump?
Oct 28 18:31:25 <lindi-> GNUtoo: 'dhclient -d eth0' and 'tcpdump -i eth0 -s0 -w d'
Oct 28 18:36:40 <GNUtoo> lindi-, i don't see anything on tcpdump output...or mabe i should add udhcpc with the if-up or similar directive
Oct 28 18:37:04 <GNUtoo> or mabe i should compile a newer dhclietn
Oct 28 18:38:42 <Cervajz> Good evening, did anybody try replace DropBear with Open-SSH?
Oct 28 18:40:08 <GNUtoo> Cervajz, i did it mabe with om2008.8 
Oct 28 18:40:24 <GNUtoo> but i don't have openssh in my current distro 
Oct 28 18:40:56 <GNUtoo> (but on debian i have it with also dropbear...i have to remove dropbear)
Oct 28 18:41:24 <Cervajz> GNUtoo: thanks, i think about it, because DropBear can't use my authorization keys :(
Oct 28 18:41:40 <GNUtoo> Cervajz, mabe you can convert the keys
Oct 28 18:41:42 <lindi-> GNUtoo: i don't think dhclient has changed in any real way
Oct 28 18:42:09 <lindi-> GNUtoo: please 'sudo ifconfig eth0 up' and 'sudo strace -o s -s4096 -f dhclient -d eth0'
Oct 28 18:42:23 <lindi-> GNUtoo: and make sure no other dhcp client is running
Oct 28 18:42:48 <lindi-> Cervajz: dropbear understands my keys just fine
Oct 28 18:43:10 <lindi-> Cervajz: are you using rsa keys maybe?
Oct 28 18:43:19 <Cervajz> GNUtoo: Convert? It's not so easy, because I would change keys on three machines
Oct 28 18:43:27 <Cervajz> lindi-: Yes, 2048
Oct 28 18:43:28 <Cervajz> bits
Oct 28 18:43:32 <GNUtoo> lindi-, i'm not on debian right now so i'll do it without the sudo
Oct 28 18:44:03 <lindi-> Cervajz: just use DSA keys then
Oct 28 18:44:14 <lindi-> Cervajz: you can have multiple keys
Oct 28 18:44:22 <lindi-> Cervajz: no need to do the change on other systems
Oct 28 18:44:37 <GNUtoo> i'll pastebin the s file
Oct 28 18:44:48 <lindi-> GNUtoo: sure. "sudo x" is just a shorthand for "please run the command x with root privileges"
Oct 28 18:45:00 <GNUtoo> ah ok
Oct 28 18:46:40 <Cervajz> lindi-: Good idea, thanks. I will try use multiple keys
Oct 28 18:47:14 <lindi-> Cervajz: in .ssh/config you can specify what keys to use with each host
Oct 28 18:50:05 <GNUtoo> lindi-, http://www.pastebin.ca/1238867
Oct 28 18:52:11 <lindi-> that really looks for libc.so.6 in the current directory? how unsafe :P
Oct 28 18:53:24 <lindi-> "SYS_289(0x3, 0xc77d8, 0x45, 0x4000, 0x1a28) = 69"
Oct 28 18:54:54 <lindi-> your eth0 seems to already have an address
Oct 28 18:55:14 <lindi-> 'write(2, "bogus UDP packet length: 5851", 29) = 29'?
Oct 28 18:55:47 <lindi-> GNUtoo: 'write(2, "DHCPACK from 192.168.1.1", 24) = 24' shows that it received something
Oct 28 18:55:57 <GNUtoo> lindi-, i think i didn't do a down...but only killed all dhclient and udhcpcd
Oct 28 18:56:09 <GNUtoo> s/down/ifconfig eth0 down
Oct 28 18:56:20 <GNUtoo> ok
Oct 28 18:56:24 <lindi-> GNUtoo: so tcpdump should clearly have showed traffic
Oct 28 18:56:40 <lindi-> GNUtoo: did you really look at the file 'd' where tcpdump wrote the packets?
Oct 28 18:56:48 <GNUtoo> ah no
Oct 28 18:56:56 <GNUtoo> sorry...i thought it was printing
Oct 28 18:57:18 <lindi-> GNUtoo: open it in wireshark or something on your PC
Oct 28 18:57:22 <GNUtoo> ok
Oct 28 18:57:29 <lindi-> GNUtoo: nope, printing things to stdout is usually not good for debugging :)
Oct 28 18:57:40 <lindi-> you want to save raw data to file
Oct 28 18:57:58 <lindi-> DHCPDECLINE should mean that the ip is already in use
Oct 28 18:58:11 <lindi-> '1100. 2524  --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---'
Oct 28 18:58:13 <lindi-> huh??
Oct 28 18:58:27 <GNUtoo> i see traffic in d
Oct 28 18:58:56 <GNUtoo> i also see that:  9	2.670629	0.0.0.0	255.255.255.255	DHCP	DHCP Decline  - Transaction ID 0x93bf2912
Oct 28 18:59:12 <lindi-> GNUtoo: your shell segfaults
Oct 28 18:59:14 <lindi-> GNUtoo: 2524  execve("/sbin/dhclient-script", ["/sbin/dhclient-script"], [/* 17 vars */] <unfinished ...>
Oct 28 18:59:17 <lindi-> GNUtoo: ...
Oct 28 18:59:20 <GNUtoo> ouch...
Oct 28 18:59:21 <lindi-> GNUtoo: 2524  --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---
Oct 28 18:59:34 <lindi-> while running /sbin/dhclient-script
Oct 28 18:59:58 <lindi-> GNUtoo: and dhclient tells the server that it doesn't want the IP anymore since it has issues :P
Oct 28 18:59:58 <GNUtoo> mabe that
Oct 28 19:00:00 <GNUtoo> oops
Oct 28 19:00:06 <GNUtoo> ok
Oct 28 19:00:41 <GNUtoo> at the end i ctrl+c for strace dhclient otherwise it would loop ethernally
Oct 28 19:01:02 <lindi-> GNUtoo: that is ok
Oct 28 19:01:14 <lindi-> GNUtoo: it does not cause the segfault
Oct 28 19:01:21 <GNUtoo> ok
Oct 28 19:01:30 <lindi-> (the log has multiple SIGSEGV prints as you can see)
Oct 28 19:01:48 <lindi-> GNUtoo: every time dhclient has got an IP address it tries to run dhclient-script to configure routing and stuff
Oct 28 19:01:48 <Dave> Debugging party?
Oct 28 19:02:03 <lindi-> GNUtoo: but then your shell crashes and it tells the server that it doesn't want the IP anymore
Oct 28 19:02:18 <GNUtoo> ok
Oct 28 19:02:19 <lindi-> what sort of a distro has a shell that crashes :-)
Oct 28 19:02:36 <GNUtoo> 2008.9
Oct 28 19:02:36 <Dave> all the good ones, apparently :p
Oct 28 19:02:55 <GNUtoo> lol
Oct 28 19:03:00 <lindi-> GNUtoo: can you enable core files with ulimit -c unlimited?
Oct 28 19:03:06 <GNUtoo> good idea
Oct 28 19:03:09 <lindi-> GNUtoo: and check if it dumps core to current directory
Oct 28 19:04:11 <GNUtoo> it does...next gdb?
Oct 28 19:04:25 <lindi-> GNUtoo: yeah. "gdb -c core" and then "bt"
Oct 28 19:04:38 <TAsnn> OMFG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMlsIUaWaRI
Oct 28 19:04:39 <TAsnn> ;]
Oct 28 19:05:02 <GNUtoo> which debug package should i install because gdb says: #0  0x400f30c8 in ?? ()
Oct 28 19:05:11 <lindi-> GNUtoo: is that all it says?
Oct 28 19:05:18 <GNUtoo> yes
Oct 28 19:05:28 <lindi-> GNUtoo: "x/4i $pc"
Oct 28 19:05:42 <lindi-> GNUtoo: and "info register"
Oct 28 19:06:10 <GNUtoo> 0x400f30c8:     Cannot access memory at address 0x400f30c8
Oct 28 19:06:23 <lindi-> interesting
Oct 28 19:06:29 <leinir> Yay, an input for mobile systems that only works if you're stationary! ;)
Oct 28 19:06:30 <GNUtoo> http://rafb.net/p/P6SPmq47.html
Oct 28 19:06:55 <lindi-> GNUtoo: since the program is not running anymore i don't know how to see /proc/$pid/maps
Oct 28 19:07:01 <Cervajz> GNUtoo: Excuse me, but were you successfull with Open-SSH?
Oct 28 19:07:08 <GNUtoo> Cervajz, yes
Oct 28 19:07:33 <lindi-> GNUtoo: the "lr" (link register) should hold return address
Oct 28 19:07:40 <GNUtoo> ok
Oct 28 19:07:54 <lindi-> GNUtoo: so "x/4i $lr" might be interesting
Oct 28 19:08:14 <GNUtoo> 0x732f006e:     Cannot access memory at address 0x732f006e
Oct 28 19:08:18 <lindi-> hrm
Oct 28 19:08:38 <lindi-> let me check a few things :)
Oct 28 19:08:56 <GNUtoo> ok and thanks a lot
Oct 28 19:09:32 <lindi-> ah well, i was just stupid :P
Oct 28 19:09:40 <lindi-> it can't find the code since you only gave it the core file
Oct 28 19:09:54 <lindi-> happens also on x86
Oct 28 19:09:59 <lindi-> GNUtoo: so "gdb /bin/sh -c core"
Oct 28 19:10:14 <lindi-> GNUtoo: then go back to "bt" :)
Oct 28 19:10:53 <GNUtoo> http://rafb.net/p/9fZhQ186.html
Oct 28 19:11:20 <lindi-> GNUtoo: ah, is your /bin/sh not bash?
Oct 28 19:11:42 <GNUtoo> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 7 Jan  1  1970 /bin/sh -> busybox
Oct 28 19:11:52 <lindi-> GNUtoo: then "gdb /bin/bash -c core"
Oct 28 19:12:25 <GNUtoo> http://rafb.net/p/p9uf6L26.html
Oct 28 19:12:57 <lindi-> GNUtoo: good
Oct 28 19:13:01 <lindi-> GNUtoo: now it makes more sense
Oct 28 19:13:28 <lindi-> GNUtoo: but since we don't see what called that memcpy it's almost impossible to do anything if you don't recompile your bash
Oct 28 19:13:40 <lindi-> the memcpy probably overwrote stack or someting
Oct 28 19:14:21 <GNUtoo> lindi-, and i won't recompile my bash soon...because i'm recompiling all my TMPDIR from openembedded...(because of abi change)
Oct 28 19:14:41 <lindi-> GNUtoo: but just for the record you could run "x/4i $pc" so that we see what the offending instruction is
Oct 28 19:14:49 <GNUtoo> so mabe tommorow when it will have finished compiling the base...i would be able to recompile it
Oct 28 19:15:02 <lindi-> GNUtoo: if this happens on debian you can 'sudo apt-get build-dep bash' and 'fakeroot apt-get --build source bash'
Oct 28 19:15:32 <GNUtoo> http://rafb.net/p/1a4pun24.html
Oct 28 19:15:40 <GNUtoo> i'm on om2008.9
Oct 28 19:15:54 <lindi-> argh, i have to look at arm reference
Oct 28 19:16:07 <lindi-> "LDM" is some load memory op
Oct 28 19:16:20 <lindi-> and the "!" after the first register has special meaning
Oct 28 19:16:43 <pb_> !, in this case, means it's a post-increment.
Oct 28 19:16:48 <lindi-> thanks
Oct 28 19:16:48 <pb_> that's the main memcpy loop
Oct 28 19:17:27 <lindi-> so r1 probably points to memory that is not mapped
Oct 28 19:17:33 <CIA-50> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r310 10/trunk/python-elementary/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Added more functionality and setup.py
Oct 28 19:17:38 <lindi-> '3  r1             0xbe83ffe8       3196321768'
Oct 28 19:17:43 <lindi-> hard to say if that is mapped or not
Oct 28 19:18:26 <pb_> that looks like you might just have run out of stack.
Oct 28 19:18:51 <lindi-> pb_: but sp is less than r1
Oct 28 19:19:05 <pb_> oh, what was sp?
Oct 28 19:19:40 <lindi-> by 5956 bytes
Oct 28 19:19:50 <lindi-> pb_: GNUtoo pasted http://rafb.net/p/P6SPmq47.html
Oct 28 19:20:13 <pb_> oh yeah, I see, sorry
Oct 28 19:20:24 <lindi-> pb_: are values of registers updated atomically in that case if there is a fault while reading from memory?
Oct 28 19:20:41 <lindi-> it seems it checks the condition first and then reads
Oct 28 19:21:00 <pb_> lindi-: if an abort happens during the ldm, the base register is rewound to the starting value
Oct 28 19:21:11 <gustavold> Hi, does openmoko come with j2me virtual machine?
Oct 28 19:21:21 <pb_> (but any target registers that have already been loaded are not restored)
Oct 28 19:21:29 <lindi-> gustavold: i would use microemulator
Oct 28 19:21:38 <lindi-> gustavold: if you just want to run some small j2me programs
Oct 28 19:21:52 <lindi-> GNUtoo: it would be really interesting if you could check if you can reproduce this under debian
Oct 28 19:22:03 <lindi-> GNUtoo: there is a really small chance that you have hit a bash bug
Oct 28 19:22:18 <GNUtoo> lindi-, in debian it works fine...
Oct 28 19:22:23 <GNUtoo> (dhclient)
Oct 28 19:22:23 <lindi-> after all, if you type   fc -s ""=""    then it bash will segfault
Oct 28 19:22:33 <GNUtoo> ah ok
Oct 28 19:23:16 <gustavold> lindi-: I'm working on an opensource project using j2me... we are planning wich platforms we are going to support... I'd like to include openmoko, but we need assure it has j2me virtual machine, as we are going to buy some devices
Oct 28 19:23:56 <lindi-> gustavold: does j2me really need a special virtual machine?
Oct 28 19:24:01 <lindi-> gustavold: i just used my normal virtual machines
Oct 28 19:24:23 <gustavold> lindi-: yes, it is
Oct 28 19:24:28 <lindi-> gustavold: really?
Oct 28 19:24:32 <lindi-> gustavold: for what purpose?
Oct 28 19:24:53 <gustavold> afaik, j2se and j2me have their own virtual machines
Oct 28 19:25:06 <lindi-> gustavold: i used cacao to run jmirc
Oct 28 19:25:18 <lindi-> gustavold: jmirc.sf.net is a j2me IRC client written by a friend of mine
Oct 28 19:25:42 <lindi-> gustavold: why would i need a special virtual machine?
Oct 28 19:26:23 <gustavold> lindi-: sorry, I'm just guessing... I'm not sure about it
Oct 28 19:27:30 <GNUtoo> lindi-, or mabe i could build bash on  the openmoko...i've gcc on it
Oct 28 19:28:47 <lindi-> gustavold: of course you need a different class library
Oct 28 19:28:58 <lindi-> gustavold: microemulator has a very simple one that was enough to run jmirc
Oct 28 19:29:07 <gustavold> hummm
Oct 28 19:29:29 <lindi-> better not mix 'compiler' 'virtual machine' and 'class library' :)
Oct 28 19:29:32 <gustavold> lindi-: now I understood what you mean
Oct 28 19:30:47 <gustavold> so I'll change my requirement: I need to be sure that openmoko can run our software (that is build using j2me)
Oct 28 19:30:56 <lindi-> gustavold: so you need a) a virtual machine that works on ARM (many exist) b) a class library that supports j2me (this might be tricky if you need full API support)
Oct 28 19:31:14 <Kensan> pb_: ping
Oct 28 19:31:22 <gustavold> right
Oct 28 19:31:26 <lindi-> gustavold: what class library are you using on other arcs?
Oct 28 19:31:28 <lindi-> archs
Oct 28 19:31:28 <pb_> Kensan: hi
Oct 28 19:32:16 <Kensan> pb_: just wanted to ask if bricode got in touch with you. He was asking about arm thumb and in what way it could help with android/freerunner. I saw some commits from you to OE so I told him to ping you.
Oct 28 19:32:30 <pb_> no, I haven't heard anything from him yet
Oct 28 19:32:34 <gustavold> lindi-: As I've just entered in the project, I can't answer this question
Oct 28 19:32:43 <bricode> Speak of the Devil...
Oct 28 19:33:03 <bricode> pb_: Just wondering if you know of any issues with thumb-interworking and various versions of gcc.
Oct 28 19:33:15 <Kensan> bricode: :)
Oct 28 19:33:52 <pb_> bricode: on what architecture?
Oct 28 19:33:59 <bricode> ARMv4
Oct 28 19:34:32 <pb_> interworking on arm4t is a fairly bad business, though it is more an issue for the linker than for gcc.
Oct 28 19:34:52 <pb_> I can't think of any particular gcc issues offhand.  I have been using gcc 4.1.2 and it's working pretty well for me.
Oct 28 19:35:44 <lindi-> gustavold: ask around, would be nice to know
Oct 28 19:35:51 <pb_> as far as gcc is concerned, about all it needs to do is make sure that function calls are made with (and return with) bx, and it shouldn't have much of a problem with that.
Oct 28 19:36:03 <lindi-> pb_: interworking?
Oct 28 19:36:04 <pb_> I'm pretty sure that code has been fairly stable since at least gcc 4.0 and probably earlier.
Oct 28 19:36:11 <Kensan> pb_: what's the main benefit for using thumb? code-size?
Oct 28 19:36:15 <lindi-> pb_: having both thumb and non-thumb code?
Oct 28 19:36:40 <pb_> Kensan: yah, code size, which in theory can translate to better performance if it leads to better cache utilisation
Oct 28 19:36:43 <pb_> lindi-: right
Oct 28 19:36:53 <pb_> interworking means being able to call arm from thumb, and vice versa
Oct 28 19:36:58 <gustavold> lindi-: I know we use javax
Oct 28 19:37:05 <Kensan> pb_: ok, that's what I thought.
Oct 28 19:37:21 <gustavold> lindi-: does it help? :-P
Oct 28 19:37:39 <lindi-> gustavold: i mean, what class library do you use that provides you javax?
Oct 28 19:37:43 <bricode> pb_: So mostly you need to be sure that the proper linker flags are set, and you should be okay?
Oct 28 19:37:47 <lindi-> gustavold: maybe you use the proprietary class library from sun?
Oct 28 19:38:00 <gustavold> lindi-: probably... 
Oct 28 19:38:02 <pb_> bricode: it's more a case of just having a new enough linker.  binutils 2.18 is ok, older versions probably are not.
Oct 28 19:38:12 <gustavold> lindi-: We have it running on windows mobile
Oct 28 19:38:23 <bricode> pb_: Even 2.17 of binutils is no good?
Oct 28 19:38:31 <pb_> the plt magic to do shared library calls with thumb involved is pretty new
Oct 28 19:38:38 <lindi-> gustavold: is your own software free?
Oct 28 19:38:42 <pb_> I don't know offhand if 2.17 had it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.
Oct 28 19:38:47 <gustavold> lindi-: yes
Oct 28 19:39:03 <bricode> pb_: Okay, good to know.
Oct 28 19:39:26 <pb_> if you can use armv5 then all those issues go away and interworking is much easier.
Oct 28 19:39:42 <pb_> but, of course, as far as openmoko is concerned both the gta01 and gta02 are armv4t only
Oct 28 19:40:04 <lindi-> gustavold: right, could i take a look? if it's something i would be interested in i could try it with microemulator
Oct 28 19:40:17 <pb_> anyway, with the current toolchain bits in oe, I do have a basic rootfs built for thumb running on my gta01.
Oct 28 19:41:08 <gustavold> lindi-: http://ccsl.ime.usp.br/borboleta/trac/browser/borboleta-movel
Oct 28 19:41:18 <gustavold> lindi-: most of the code is in portuguese :(
Oct 28 19:41:27 <bricode> pb_: So I've noticed. ARMv5 is a lot nicer in that regard.
Oct 28 19:41:36 <pb_> total filesystem size change is about 10%, although that includes a pile of data files which obviously are not affected.  I think the average change in executable size is somewhere around 15%, but a few programs shrink by about twice that.
Oct 28 19:42:26 <Kensan> pb_: hm sounds good... I guess with GTA02 every bit of IO that can be avoided helps.
Oct 28 19:42:49 <lindi-> gustavold: right, what does the program do? ;)
Oct 28 19:44:03 <gustavold> lindi-: it is a data collector for patient record
Oct 28 19:44:44 <lindi-> rright
Oct 28 19:45:32 <pb_> Kensan: yah, right
Oct 28 19:45:39 <gustavold> lindi-: I asked another developer... I don't know if I asked the right question, but he answered cldc 1.1 MIDP 2.0
Oct 28 19:46:27 <lindi-> gustavold: how can i checkout that?
Oct 28 19:46:44 <lindi-> gustavold: i think those are names of the APIs you need
Oct 28 19:46:55 <lindi-> gustavold: i don't think microemulator provides full MIDP 2.0
Oct 28 19:47:31 <F4t> hey all, did anyone play with /etc/pointercal and /etc/ts.conf? how can i stop it from jittering?
Oct 28 19:48:13 <gustavold> lindi-: svn checkout svn://ccsl.ime.usp.br/borboleta/borboleta-movel/trunk
Oct 28 19:48:47 <pb_> Kensan: re-running the lmbench shell benchmark with the thumb world, the cost of /bin/sh appears to be reduced from 35ms to 29ms, which if true seems like a significant win.
Oct 28 19:48:57 <pb_> I'm not entirely sure I trust those numbers yet though
Oct 28 19:51:41 <gustavold> lindi-: if you want to know more about the project, the homepage is: http://ccsl.ime.usp.br/borboleta/
Oct 28 19:52:14 <Kensan> pb_: yeah, that would be an improvement. But as you said it would probably be better to replace the static stuff with a custom binary replacing the need for shell script(s).
Oct 28 19:52:53 <pb_> yah, indeed.  the main significance of a better /bin/sh benchmark is that it suggests that application code in general is probably going to run faster.
Oct 28 19:53:10 <pb_> busybox sh is just the easiest thing to benchmark, it's relatively harder to benchmark random gtk programs.
Oct 28 19:53:32 <pb_> obviously it would be interesting to benchmark the python interpreter and the xserver as well
Oct 28 19:54:09 <lindi-> pb_: how fast does busybox nc -vv www.google.com 80 segfault? ;)
Oct 28 19:54:26 <Kensan> pb_: yes, indeed. There's a lot of python code which people want to run on their openmoko phones.
Oct 28 19:54:58 <Kensan> pb_: raster already made his point clear on python's memory consumption ;)
Oct 28 19:55:05 <prosoft> bricode?
Oct 28 19:55:56 <prosoft> and pb_?
Oct 28 19:56:01 <droebje> is there some c code too? i ipkgd gcc on my A780 but think i try again. command not found
Oct 28 19:57:10 <droebje> ipackaged you know?
Oct 28 19:57:16 <pb_> prosoft: yes?
Oct 28 19:58:25 <pb_> oh, drat, I forgot I had gone back to the stock openmoko kernel
Oct 28 19:58:34 <pb_> no wonder these benchmark numbers are so bad :-}
Oct 28 19:58:46 <prosoft> I wasn't sure if either of you could answer this.. the ARMv4 vs. ARMv5... Is there any possibility of switching those out for my own personal use?
Oct 28 19:59:13 <pb_> prosoft: no, not realistically
Oct 28 19:59:15 <prosoft> From my understanding, Openmoko uses the ARMv4 because it's completely open, while ARMv5 is not
Oct 28 19:59:19 <lindi-> gustavold: fails here with http://rafb.net/p/bTrhzw84.html
Oct 28 19:59:27 <prosoft> is that correct or is there something else?
Oct 28 19:59:31 <pb_> prosoft: no, that's not the case.
Oct 28 19:59:50 <pb_> it just happens that the cpus that OM chose for the gta01 and gta02 are both based on an arm920t core, which happens to implement armv4t.
Oct 28 20:00:47 <pb_> in the case of gta01, I think that happened because they were basing it on an existing hardware platform.
Oct 28 20:01:06 <pb_> if it had been designed from scratch then I would have expected them to use s3c2412, which is better than s3c2410 and also cheaper.
Oct 28 20:01:17 <SpeedEvil> Now
Oct 28 20:01:28 <pb_> s3c2412 is based on arm926ejs, which is armv5te
Oct 28 20:01:31 <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure what the costs were back in 1997.
Oct 28 20:01:47 <prosoft> I see, is there any chance of changing that in the future, or is OM pretty content with what they have?
Oct 28 20:01:54 <SpeedEvil> Well - whenever the neo1973 was developed.
Oct 28 20:02:05 <SpeedEvil> pro; there is no guarantee of binary compatibility.
Oct 28 20:02:14 <SpeedEvil> prosoft: whatever looks best at the time will work
Oct 28 20:02:20 <lindi-> gustavold: indeed i don't see deleteAll in ListPaciente.java even thought it is called.
Oct 28 20:02:39 <Kensan> prosoft: the next will be a s3c6410
Oct 28 20:02:44 <gustavold> lindi-: let me see
Oct 28 20:03:05 <lindi-> gustavold: protected void carrega() {         deleteAll();
Oct 28 20:03:07 <pb_> prosoft: yes, gta03 will have a different cpu, probably a newer architecture version.
Oct 28 20:03:32 <mjr> no it doesn't?
Oct 28 20:03:38 <prosoft> is that.. ARMv6?
Oct 28 20:03:42 <pb_> anyway, the point is that there is nothing inherently less open about armv5te than armv4t.  the only bit of arm926ej-s that isn't really open is jazelle, and you don't have to use that.
Oct 28 20:03:42 <SpeedEvil> pb_: as I understand it not
Oct 28 20:03:55 <pb_> oh, is that still the s3c2442?
Oct 28 20:03:56 <SpeedEvil> pb_: GTA03 is a minor version change in the CPU
Oct 28 20:04:01 <pb_> ah, I see
Oct 28 20:04:12 <SpeedEvil> pb_: it's just got a camera interface and more onboard RAM I think
Oct 28 20:04:17 <SpeedEvil> pb_: and is faster
Oct 28 20:04:32 <SpeedEvil> But no graphics accel, or other stuff - that's for 04
Oct 28 20:04:37 <Kensan> s3c6410
Oct 28 20:04:50 <Kensan> bye bye glamo...
Oct 28 20:04:59 <pb_> if it's s3c6410 then that is indeed a newer architecture version
Oct 28 20:05:32 <pb_> s3c6410 is arm1176 based, which is quite a step from arm920t.
Oct 28 20:06:19 <prosoft> Used in the Iphone... correct?
Oct 28 20:08:02 <prosoft> I know very little about Mobile stuff, particularly the different platforms, seeing how 'far' back this project goes though, I guess I could understand why it's ARMv4, I was thinking more towards the use of Google's Android as to the reasoning behind changing it up a little bit
Oct 28 20:09:06 <lindi-> gustavold: should that deleteAll() be part of List in midp 2.0?
Oct 28 20:09:08 <Kensan> pb_: just out of curiosity: are you working on openmoko-stuff or are you just "following the project"?
Oct 28 20:09:43 <gustavold> lindi-: maybe... the guy who coded it is not answering me...
Oct 28 20:10:15 <lindi-> gustavold: would be interesting to see what specification says that List should have such a method
Oct 28 20:10:21 <lindi-> gustavold: openjdk does not
Oct 28 20:10:24 <pb_> Kensan: just following the project, really.  I have a vague ambition to use my neo1973 as a cellphone one day :-}
Oct 28 20:10:35 <SpeedEvil> pb_: wierdo.
Oct 28 20:10:38 <SpeedEvil> pb_: :)
Oct 28 20:10:40 <pb_> heh
Oct 28 20:10:56 * SpeedEvil has currently mislaid his neo1973 in the most literal sense.
Oct 28 20:11:12 <SpeedEvil> I placed it next to the window to get GPS signal.
Oct 28 20:11:16 <pb_> doh
Oct 28 20:11:33 <Kensan> pb_: ambitious indeed... ;)
Oct 28 20:11:34 <SpeedEvil> However, I'm currently doing insulation work to try to make my house warmer.
Oct 28 20:12:09 <SpeedEvil> And it's fallen down the back of the insulation to the underfloor space.
Oct 28 20:12:09 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: you put your neo inside the wall, mafia-style? that's a bit harsh.
Oct 28 20:12:16 <Wonka> house warmer? is that like a leg warmer?
Oct 28 20:12:21 <SpeedEvil> And now I've got to unscrew stuff.
Oct 28 20:12:39 <SpeedEvil> Wonka: no, the walls are currently 60cm sandstone.
Oct 28 20:12:43 <prosoft> ouch
Oct 28 20:12:51 <SpeedEvil> Wonka: Then a 5cm gap and plasterboard.
Oct 28 20:12:55 <SpeedEvil> Wonka: this is not warm.
Oct 28 20:13:05 <SpeedEvil> Wonka: hence I'm putting actual insulation in there.
Oct 28 20:13:22 <Wonka> 60cm? that's quite much.
Oct 28 20:13:31 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Oct 28 20:13:42 <SpeedEvil> Typical construction.
Oct 28 20:13:42 <Wonka> we got 12cm of polystyrene on the outside...
Oct 28 20:13:43 <DocScrutinizer2> SpeedEvil: considered fishing?
Oct 28 20:13:54 <lindi-> gustavold: newer microemulator has deleteAll()
Oct 28 20:13:59 <SpeedEvil> doc|home: I need to take up a board that I put down.
Oct 28 20:14:01 <lindi-> gustavold: hurray :-)
Oct 28 20:14:08 <gustavold> lindi-: :D
Oct 28 20:14:14 <SpeedEvil> (for 1700s weavers cottages in scotland)
Oct 28 20:14:25 <quickdev> rwhitby, here?
Oct 28 20:15:01 <lindi-> gustavold: sorry, it doesn't :)
Oct 28 20:15:30 <lindi-> gustavold: or well, i am not sure by looking at the code only. there is deleteAll implementation but it might be part of an example only
Oct 28 20:15:51 <lindi-> gustavold: would be still interesting to know what standard defines deleteAll()
Oct 28 20:16:06 <Wonka> SpeedEvil: this is a brick house, made from bricks of some material i'd translate as "chalk sandstone"
Oct 28 20:17:06 <lindi-> gustavold: hmm, it must implement it
Oct 28 20:17:16 <Wonka> SpeedEvil: we now need less oil to heat than the current standard for newbuilt(!) houses
Oct 28 20:17:33 <lindi-> gustavold: since it has example with 'this.deleteAll();' and  it is inside 'public class FilesList extends List implements CommandListener {'
Oct 28 20:17:33 <Wonka> SpeedEvil: and here in germany, the laws are a little stricter on that than in the USA
Oct 28 20:19:22 <lindi-> gustavold: can you tell a bit more about this app btw? who uses it?
Oct 28 20:20:30 <gustavold> lindi-: it is still under development... is not on full production... it is being used just as experimental
Oct 28 20:20:59 <gustavold> lindi-: by a helth center in Brazil
Oct 28 20:21:02 <lindi-> gustavold: '* This software is published under the terms of the TinyLine     * * License, a copy of which has been included with this           * * distribution in the TINYLINE_LICENSE.TXT file.                 *'
Oct 28 20:21:09 <lindi-> gustavold: the file TINYLINE_LICENSE.TXT is missing?
Oct 28 20:21:31 <prosoft> As just an everyday phone for just calling/texting, what are the current problems with the phone?
Oct 28 20:22:00 <lindi-> prosoft: hardware or software?
Oct 28 20:22:12 <prosoft> To be honest - both
Oct 28 20:22:18 <prosoft> Hardware wise, is it up to it
Oct 28 20:22:29 <prosoft> Software - is it at the very least stable enough for me to use for just the basics
Oct 28 20:22:37 <lindi-> prosoft: i can only talk about what i see. here the hardware is mostly ok
Oct 28 20:22:41 <gustavold> lindi-: I couldn't find this file
Oct 28 20:22:54 <lindi-> gustavold: if you have a list of questions could you add this to the list? ;)
Oct 28 20:23:04 <lindi-> prosoft: and for software there are many options
Oct 28 20:23:14 <lindi-> prosoft: frameworkd+zhone is barely usable
Oct 28 20:23:30 <prosoft> Tinkering with I have no problem, but I'm on a tight budget, I can convince my wife to allow me to get it to help out the community and help port/develop software for it, but only if I can use it as a phone
Oct 28 20:24:07 <prosoft> And honestly - if there's enough there where I could just throw on some very basic software to allow me to call in and out it'd be fine. I.e. It doesn't need to be pretty
Oct 28 20:25:16 <lindi-> prosoft: i would like such software too. imho the current phone programs have too many features and work too unreliably
Oct 28 20:26:08 <prosoft> I'm willing to make basic text apps - I don't care if I have to call from a terminal prompt.. just as long as I can
Oct 28 20:26:23 <prosoft> But the wifey will allow it if I can use it..
Oct 28 20:27:19 <pb_> doh, locked myself out of my phone again
Oct 28 20:27:34 <pb_> stupid dropbear
Oct 28 20:29:15 <prosoft> I gotta run... I'll try to be on later
Oct 28 20:29:39 <prosoft> hope to catch a few of you guys in tonight, I got a couple questions
Oct 28 20:36:04 <gustavold> lindi-: As I said, it is stil under heavy development... according to the developer, that "map" directory (with that tinyLine library) is still there just because of his laziness on removing that files from the repository...
Oct 28 20:36:58 <lindi-> gustavold: http://iki.fi/lindi/borboleta/1.png
Oct 28 20:37:31 <sirex`> Hello. When I try to opkg update, I get these errors: Failed to download http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Multiverse/Packages.sig, error 404
Oct 28 20:38:08 <sirex`> How can I fix this, and where can I get working repos and where can I change them?
Oct 28 20:39:31 <lindi-> gustavold: any idea what the errors in http://iki.fi/lindi/borboleta/1.txt are in english?
Oct 28 20:40:15 <lindi-> gustavold: now it says "Tabelas de consulta precisam ser importadas"
Oct 28 20:43:40 <balrog-k1n> the tables need to be imported
Oct 28 20:45:29 <spydon> faultmessages in other languages <3
Oct 28 20:47:06 <gustavold> lindi-: it has to work with a server... you dont have the server
Oct 28 20:47:59 <lindi-> gustavold: aha
Oct 28 20:48:08 <lindi-> gustavold: is that available?
Oct 28 20:50:45 <gustavold> lindi-: hummm... I dont have a server running...
Oct 28 20:51:58 <gustavold> lindi-: You can download the code, but it would be difficult to make it work, as it needs a configured database and probably other things
Oct 28 20:52:27 <lindi-> gustavold: you don't have automated testsuite?
Oct 28 20:53:13 <gustavold> lindi-: no =(
Oct 28 20:53:48 <lindi-> gustavold: i'd start from that :-)
Oct 28 20:53:56 <gustavold> lindi-: at least it seems it is working... 
Oct 28 20:54:25 <gustavold> lindi-: all the mobile software does is showing forms and interacting whit webservices
Oct 28 20:55:03 <gustavold> lindi-: according to microemulator website, it suports midp 2.0
Oct 28 20:55:57 <lindi-> gustavold: that still does not mean much unless you have tested that your program only relies on on midp 2.0 and nothing extra
Oct 28 20:56:14 <lindi-> gustavold: i have struggled with the 'java trap' since 2004 :)
Oct 28 20:56:42 <gustavold> lindi-: maybe I can ask it to be a restriction to the project :P
Oct 28 20:57:07 <lindi-> gustavold: there is no easy way to be sure
Oct 28 20:57:17 <lindi-> gustavold: so you better have automated tests with different systems
Oct 28 20:58:08 <gustavold> lindi-: I'm a newbie in the java world... I'm comming from c/c++ development
Oct 28 20:58:13 <lindi-> gustavold: it can take a day or two to setup the test system but after that you don't have to be constantly afraid that you will break the system for some obscure device
Oct 28 21:04:59 <gustavold> lindi-: I think we will try openmoko, according to the developer who coded almost the entire software, all we need is cldc 1.1, midp 2.0 and jsr 75
Oct 28 21:05:48 <lindi-> gustavold: there is no need to buy the hardware
Oct 28 21:06:22 <lindi-> gustavold: just make sure it runs with microemulator
Oct 28 21:07:14 <gustavold> lindi-: I came here exactely because the sponsor is going to buy a smart phone to me, and asked me to choose wich one I want... ;)
Oct 28 21:08:16 <lindi-> gustavold: ah, for you personally
Oct 28 21:09:06 <lindi-> gustavold: what do you value? what are you priorities when you choose the phone?
Oct 28 21:10:42 <gustavold> lindi-: I'd like to choose one that runs linux... until now we just run it on windows mobile
Oct 28 21:11:58 <metallicaoslorek> is the freerunner powerfull enough to play xvids?
Oct 28 21:12:10 <metallicaoslorek> those who are like 700mbs
Oct 28 21:12:21 <lindi-> metallicaoslorek: what are those?
Oct 28 21:13:03 <metallicaoslorek> dvdrips
Oct 28 21:13:26 <metallicaoslorek> avi
Oct 28 21:13:27 <mjr> xvid is basically one of them plainer mpeg4 profiles so possibly the glamo acceleration could be useful
Oct 28 21:13:28 <nemik> avi's basically. i'm not really sure they'd play back all that well
Oct 28 21:13:43 <nemik> yea maybe with the glamo mplayer thing
Oct 28 21:14:01 <metallicaoslorek> vlc
Oct 28 21:14:38 <mjr> metallicaoslorek, you don't want to decode on the cpu, is the thing, and there's only the kludged up glamo output for mplayer afaik
Oct 28 21:16:04 <mjr> don't know how well that works, really, but that's your best shot at getting decent video performance
Oct 28 21:16:47 <lindi-> if i only had time i could try it on debian
Oct 28 21:18:37 <metallicaoslorek> couse i'd really like to watch movies stored on my server
Oct 28 21:19:05 <metallicaoslorek> direct from the server, not downloading
Oct 28 21:19:19 <lindi-> dvdrips don't sound too legal though :P
Oct 28 21:19:40 <Schugy> who cares
Oct 28 21:19:57 <mjr> well, depends on if you've gotten your very own imported DMCA yet where you are
Oct 28 21:20:02 <lindi-> Schugy: i do :)
Oct 28 21:20:25 <metallicaoslorek> of cource i need it to be dvdrips, i cant put the dvds in the neo freerunner:P
Oct 28 21:20:37 <Schugy> as long as I don't give copies away to others...
Oct 28 21:20:43 <lindi-> metallicaoslorek: usb dvd-drive? ;)
Oct 28 21:21:18 <Schugy> I've ripped the sound pid of all my music dvds to hear them in the car
Oct 28 21:21:20 <metallicaoslorek> but i think that is my choise
Oct 28 21:21:47 <metallicaoslorek> and how would the batterytime be if i had to run a dvd-drive
Oct 28 21:21:58 <Schugy> lol
Oct 28 21:22:28 <Schugy> dvds easily fit on sdcards
Oct 28 21:22:35 <metallicaoslorek> so why bother arguing about how legal dvdrips are
Oct 28 21:23:05 <Schugy> it's just fair use
Oct 28 21:23:30 <techiem2-r> shhh. Don't tell that to the MPAA
Oct 28 21:23:32 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 28 21:23:50 <lindi-> metallicaoslorek: well, i don't have a physical dvd drive so only way i could test your idea would be for somebody to send me (probably illegally) a dvd image
Oct 28 21:24:14 <Schugy> thanks to libdvdcss we have the power
Oct 28 21:24:44 <lindi-> ah and then i'm not sure if debian even can decode dvds nowadays
Oct 28 21:25:40 <Schugy> don't have any hd-parts because of the limitations, no hd-panel, no bd-drive, no hd-movies
Oct 28 21:26:09 <Schugy> add the videolan.org-repository....
Oct 28 21:26:36 <Schugy> thanks to the French
Oct 28 21:26:45 <lindi-> Schugy: but it might have some non-DFSG stuff :)
Oct 28 21:26:47 <metallicaoslorek> for videolad?
Oct 28 21:26:53 <metallicaoslorek> videolan*
Oct 28 21:27:02 <LetoTo1> fuck DFSG :)
Oct 28 21:27:27 <Schugy> at least there are libdvdcss-debs
Oct 28 21:28:04 <metallicaoslorek> can the freerunner with a debian distro use .deb packages? 
Oct 28 21:28:06 <lindi-> Schugy: the issue is not technology :)
Oct 28 21:28:08 <metallicaoslorek> and apt-get?
Oct 28 21:28:14 <lindi-> metallicaoslorek: sure?
Oct 28 21:28:20 <metallicaoslorek> or do i have to compile everything?
Oct 28 21:28:30 <metallicaoslorek> sure about what?
Oct 28 21:28:40 <lindi-> metallicaoslorek: of course you can apt-get, it's debian
Oct 28 21:28:44 <mjr> sure as in "of course"
Oct 28 21:28:46 <lindi-> metallicaoslorek: the complete thing
Oct 28 21:28:53 <Schugy> but maybe its x86 only
Oct 28 21:29:02 <mjr> Schugy, debian? Yeah right.
Oct 28 21:29:09 <metallicaoslorek> yeah, that was what i thought
Oct 28 21:29:30 <mjr> debian has a pretty fine list of architectures
Oct 28 21:29:30 <Schugy> get an atom phone with a >1W cpu and a 25W chipset
Oct 28 21:29:32 <Schugy> :-D
Oct 28 21:29:50 <metallicaoslorek> hehe:P
Oct 28 21:29:54 <Schugy> does anybody care about battery life?
Oct 28 21:30:30 <ronny> me
Oct 28 21:30:34 <Schugy> intels ARM criticism is ridiculous
Oct 28 21:30:42 <ronny> minime
Oct 28 21:30:45 <metallicaoslorek> yeah, i want at least 10 hours
Oct 28 21:31:06 <ronny> Schugy: they just want to push crappy ol x86
Oct 28 21:31:17 <Schugy> and that means below 1 W with cpu, chipset, dram, and maybe even display
Oct 28 21:31:17 <metallicaoslorek> i love ARM. Thank norway!
Oct 28 21:31:22 <metallicaoslorek> Atmel owns
Oct 28 21:31:53 <Schugy> i wonder when the gta03 will be ready
Oct 28 21:32:11 <Schugy> and the pandora handheld is sold out until next year and only black coloured
Oct 28 21:33:02 <Schugy> give me an aluminium case, it's a good excuse to play on and on at -20 degress C :-D
Oct 28 21:58:49 <break_free> what's with OM2008.8 having a newer release than 2008.9
Oct 28 22:05:40 <gustavold> lindi-: Thank you for helping, I have to go now, but I'll try to make borboleta run on microemulator and then I come to give you some feedback
Oct 28 22:12:54 <kdean06> Can anyone running Debian tell me roughly how much space on SD I need for the basic install?
Oct 28 22:14:42 <Zorkman> kdean06: i'm not very much up to date anymore, but the bare nescessities ran on the 512MB card
Oct 28 22:14:58 <kdean06> Okay, thanks.
Oct 28 22:15:34 <prosoft> Hello hello
Oct 28 22:17:03 <SirBob1701> \
Oct 28 22:17:04 <SirBob1701> \
Oct 28 22:17:07 <SirBob1701> \exit
Oct 28 22:18:50 <Torikun> When I do a upgrade on the openmoko ASU, It says "updating angstrom version". Is thsi correct?
Oct 28 22:20:00 <Dave> Torikun!
Oct 28 22:20:05 <Torikun> Yo
Oct 28 22:20:09 <Dave> It always says that?
Oct 28 22:20:23 <Dave> At least that's from what I remember.
Oct 28 22:20:24 <Torikun> Only!
Oct 28 22:20:28 <Dave> only?
Oct 28 22:20:35 <Torikun> Yup
Oct 28 22:20:40 <Dave> I always remember that being the first part of every successful opkg upgrade I did.
Oct 28 22:20:48 <Dave> then it would update the kernel and write it to nand, etc.
Oct 28 22:20:55 <Torikun> I have not seen packages in a long time
Oct 28 22:20:59 <Torikun> only angstom
Oct 28 22:21:12 <Torikun> Dave! Test out my backup software
Oct 28 22:21:13 <Torikun> http://rusher.webhop.org/wordpress/?page_id=210
Oct 28 22:21:49 <Dave> oh snap?
Oct 28 22:21:58 <Torikun> That is why I been not here for awhile
Oct 28 22:22:00 <Torikun> learning Java
Oct 28 22:22:01 <Torikun> .olol
Oct 28 22:22:02 <Dave> How many rootkits are packaged with it? :D
Oct 28 22:22:04 <Dave> haha
Oct 28 22:22:12 <Dave> Yeah, I kind of did that myself, over the summer :P
Oct 28 22:22:34 <Dave> Now I've got a project manager who's perception is that Java is the future and will solve all programming problems.
Oct 28 22:22:40 <Torikun> ha
Oct 28 22:22:46 <Dave> I constantly find myself rolling my eyes and walking out on meetings.
Oct 28 22:22:52 <Torikun> I like Java
Oct 28 22:23:00 <Dave> Someone asked me why I left early...
Oct 28 22:23:14 <Torikun> your object was finished
Oct 28 22:23:14 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:23:23 <Dave> I said the reason lay in an undefined exception class...
Oct 28 22:23:28 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:23:29 <Dave> (i.e. go fuck yourself)
Oct 28 22:23:31 <Torikun> Nullpointer
Oct 28 22:23:31 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:23:34 <Dave> yeah
Oct 28 22:23:39 <Dave> Fucking Java
Oct 28 22:23:40 <Torikun> hate that dam error
Oct 28 22:23:44 <Torikun> pisses me off
Oct 28 22:23:49 <Dave> Doesn't it always :D
Oct 28 22:23:53 <Ke> java has no unsigned, need i say more
Oct 28 22:23:58 <Dave> So, I see YOU'VE been enjoying yourself then :D
Oct 28 22:24:01 <Dave> Kekeke
Oct 28 22:24:27 <Torikun> openmoko needs java
Oct 28 22:24:29 <Torikun> so I can run my app
Oct 28 22:24:55 <Dave> What, it doesn't run on cacao/jalimo?
Oct 28 22:25:03 <Zorkman> Torikun: it has java... no?
Oct 28 22:25:07 <Zorkman> g2g
Oct 28 22:25:08 <Dave> Sure it does
Oct 28 22:25:13 <Dave> Just a shitty excuse for it :D
Oct 28 22:25:17 <Dave> (JVM)
Oct 28 22:25:18 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:25:46 <Dave> People are all dismayed and shit when they get errors or missing libs, etc. I'm just like, dude... you're trying to run your java project... on a phone...
Oct 28 22:25:49 <Dave> Need I say more?
Oct 28 22:25:55 <Torikun> hahaahah
Oct 28 22:26:08 <Dave> Memory footprint copters
Oct 28 22:26:14 <ronny> lol
Oct 28 22:26:18 <Torikun> my backup progarm would not be very useful on the freerunner
Oct 28 22:26:28 <Dave> Dude, I'm like... YOU DON'T RUN BITTORRENT ON A PHONE!
Oct 28 22:26:45 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:26:47 <Dave> They're like, hey, fuck you. I just left after that.
Oct 28 22:27:03 <Dave> That's one less peer for them!
Oct 28 22:27:04 <Dave> hahaha
Oct 28 22:27:11 <ronny> Torikun: what kind of backup app ?
Oct 28 22:28:18 <Torikun> ronny: http://rusher.webhop.org/wordpress/?page_id=210
Oct 28 22:31:18 <Torikun> actually
Oct 28 22:31:22 <Torikun> this may be useful on the openmok
Oct 28 22:31:23 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:37:33 <Dave> I think you have other plans for us... Torikun.
Oct 28 22:37:36 <Dave> ¬_¬
Oct 28 22:37:45 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:37:45 <Torikun> wha
Oct 28 22:40:17 <Dave> SEKRET MOTIVEZ
Oct 28 22:40:56 <metallicaoslorek> what is the arm processor in the freerunner called?
Oct 28 22:41:22 <Torikun> dam
Oct 28 22:41:24 <Torikun> my code does not run
Oct 28 22:42:14 <prosoft> metallicaosiorek.. Samsung 2442 SoC 
Oct 28 22:42:42 <prosoft> 400/500 MHz Samsung 2442B Processor/SOC (400 minimum, ARM920T core, ARMv4T)
Oct 28 22:42:50 <prosoft> running in the freerunner..
Oct 28 22:43:10 <prosoft> check out openmoko's wiki, it has pretty much everything there
Oct 28 22:44:36 <Dave> hah
Oct 28 22:46:28 <Dave> Torikun, exception whore :p
Oct 28 22:46:36 <Torikun> lol
Oct 28 22:55:00 <Dave> Yes, leave you puny humons.
Oct 28 22:59:24 <root_demon> hello people
Oct 28 22:59:38 <muxe> hi
Oct 28 23:01:12 <root_demon> so, I was hoping somebody could point me in the right direction, as to how one would go about using an unlocked phone such as neo with a gsm service provider.
Oct 28 23:02:02 <root_demon> the only phones I have ever owned have been provided to me by my service provider.
Oct 28 23:02:17 <Dave> just swap out the sim
Oct 28 23:02:58 <root_demon> do all cell phone have a sim card?
Oct 28 23:03:10 <Dave> only phones that use gsm
Oct 28 23:03:52 <root_demon> got'cha. that makes more sence. I've only had sprint and verizon, and have had a total of 5 phones in my life time and never recall seeing a sim card.
Oct 28 23:04:26 <Dave> I see
Oct 28 23:04:41 <Dave> yeah, well Verizon Wireless is strictly CDMA (i.e. no SIM)
Oct 28 23:04:56 <Dave> At least within the US
Oct 28 23:05:06 <root_demon> does that mean that if I were to sign up with a gsm based provider, that I would already have to have a phone from them to swap sims, or would they actually provide me with a sim if I asked?
Oct 28 23:06:21 <evolux> is mokopedia the current "offline-wikipedia of your choice"?
Oct 28 23:06:48 <evolux> i was finally able to get it running, but i can't find out how to search for articles...
Oct 28 23:08:00 <evolux> hm, perhaps i downloaded the wrong one
Oct 28 23:09:12 <mjr> root_demon, in the US, they're pretty keen on force-selling you phones, but you should be able to get a sim only (though they'll probably make you pay for a phone anyway)
Oct 28 23:09:55 <mjr> The details are up to the providers and the plan you get. Prepays perhaps not so much on the force-selling front.
Oct 28 23:10:34 <techiem2-r> hehe
Oct 28 23:10:47 <techiem2-r> I paid $15 for a prepay kit to yank the sim from
Oct 28 23:11:55 <root_demon> really?
Oct 28 23:12:13 <root_demon> so you turned your openmoko into a prepay?
Oct 28 23:12:29 <pietrubens> hello?
Oct 28 23:12:59 <Dave> Yes?
Oct 28 23:13:06 <techiem2-r> yup
Oct 28 23:13:21 <techiem2-r> picked up a $15 ATT gophone prepay kit at the local RadioShack
Oct 28 23:13:24 <Dave> Techie :p
Oct 28 23:13:28 <pietrubens> hello all
Oct 28 23:13:31 <techiem2-r> they activated the phone and account etc
Oct 28 23:13:36 <pietrubens> anybody in here is familiar with amaya?
Oct 28 23:13:40 <techiem2-r> I went home, yanked the sim, put it in my FR
Oct 28 23:13:41 <techiem2-r> hehehe
Oct 28 23:14:23 <techiem2-r> I do get a kind of evil satisfaction that I'm using my FR with a $25/min prepay plan on ATT while the iPhone users have to pay $$$$$/month
Oct 28 23:14:34 <Dave> yeah
Oct 28 23:14:40 <techiem2-r> er
Oct 28 23:14:44 <techiem2-r> $.25/min
Oct 28 23:14:45 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 28 23:16:34 <Dave> yeah, it's not the best, but hey.
Oct 28 23:16:35 <Dave> :)
Oct 28 23:16:39 * Dave hails raster
Oct 28 23:17:04 <techiem2-r> considering that I use my phone very rarely, $25 every 3 months is just fine for me
Oct 28 23:17:07 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 28 23:17:24 * raster bows obsequiously before the almighty Dave 
Oct 28 23:18:04 <root_demon> that's brilliant. 
Oct 28 23:18:29 <DocScrutinizer2> raster: moinmoin!
Oct 28 23:18:31 <root_demon> this is why I came in here. I was undecided about whether or not it'd be worth buying, but this is sounds more fun by the minute.
Oct 28 23:18:53 * Kensan runs for cover
Oct 28 23:19:03 <Dave> >:)
Oct 28 23:20:19 <Kensan> Dave: about the snowball earlier: it's gonna snow here tomorrow so be carefull mate.
Oct 28 23:20:39 <Dave> I FEAR NOT.
Oct 28 23:20:48 <Kensan> raster: I think I sent you the wrong udev patch *sigh*
Oct 28 23:20:50 <root_demon> does anyone know if a java SDK or even just a JVM has been known to work on openmoko?
Oct 28 23:20:56 <pietrubens> @kensan: snow? where are you then, if i may ask, that it snows so soon
Oct 28 23:21:41 <Kensan> pietrubens: switzerland
Oct 28 23:21:49 <raster> Kensan:  what? NOOOOOOOO!
Oct 28 23:21:55 <Kensan> Dave: you just wait and se *muahaha*
Oct 28 23:21:58 <Kensan> +e
Oct 28 23:21:59 * raster curses the swiss
Oct 28 23:22:04 <chi> so i got a sim for my phone and it works in another phone but not my neo =/
Oct 28 23:22:06 * raster hugs the swiss
Oct 28 23:22:09 * Kensan goes back to hide again
Oct 28 23:22:15 <raster> DocScrutinizer2:  morgen!
Oct 28 23:22:24 <Kensan> raster: forget about patch 0001
Oct 28 23:22:26 <techiem2-r> ugh we're supposed to get snow tonight...
Oct 28 23:23:06 <raster> k
Oct 28 23:23:07 <Kensan> raster: ok why did you curse? patch or snow?
Oct 28 23:23:13 <raster> i need to do this bubble widget
Oct 28 23:23:22 * Kensan checks if diversion-question works
Oct 28 23:23:29 <raster> then need to figure out why when illume is enabled... e decides to forget its lang
Oct 28 23:23:36 <Kensan> ah
Oct 28 23:23:37 <raster> Kensan:  patch
Oct 28 23:23:38 <raster> :)
Oct 28 23:23:45 <techiem2-r> lol
Oct 28 23:23:47 <DocScrutinizer2> duh, bubble widget? o.O
Oct 28 23:24:21 <DocScrutinizer2> raster loves snow
Oct 28 23:24:32 <Kensan> DocScrutinizer2: he does?
Oct 28 23:24:34 <raster> snow is good
Oct 28 23:24:40 <raster> DocScrutinizer2:  yes. bubble widget!
Oct 28 23:24:41 <Dave> YAY
Oct 28 23:24:46 <Kensan> raster: not if it's yellow...
Oct 28 23:24:50 <Dave> SNOWPHONE!
Oct 28 23:24:59 <raster> it'll all make sense when my master plan comes to fruition
Oct 28 23:25:05 <raster> Kensan:  ewwww!
Oct 28 23:25:14 <Kensan> raster: exactly
Oct 28 23:25:21 <DocScrutinizer2> watch out where the huskies go...
Oct 28 23:25:24 <Kensan> raster: not all snow is equal.
Oct 28 23:25:28 <Dave> YES
Oct 28 23:25:32 * Dave throws a snowball at raster
Oct 28 23:25:41 <DocScrutinizer2> don't you eat that yellow snow
Oct 28 23:26:29 <Dave> It's poisoned!
Oct 28 23:26:35 <Kensan> raster: well if you like snow, then get Thomas to pay for your trip to CH, I'll show you around ;)
Oct 28 23:26:43 <Dave> :D
Oct 28 23:27:21 <Kensan> raster: about the master plan coming to fruition: *Burns-evil-voice* eeeexcelent
Oct 28 23:28:21 <raster> Kensan: let's see how thngs go
Oct 28 23:28:40 <raster> it seems that there will be continued work for swisscom - they're happy
Oct 28 23:28:41 <raster> :)
Oct 28 23:28:45 <Kensan> raster: speaking of which: did you get oe commit access?
Oct 28 23:29:00 <raster> yeah i did
Oct 28 23:29:03 <raster> i just havent set it up yet
Oct 28 23:29:07 <raster> i'm still on my old-method
Oct 28 23:29:12 <raster> i just need to check out git via ssh
Oct 28 23:29:22 <raster> and then set up my branch
Oct 28 23:29:24 <raster> and commit to it
Oct 28 23:29:29 <Kensan> raster: yeah, you should have been there at the community meet, he was doing a little raster ad *hehe*
Oct 28 23:29:42 <raster> really?
Oct 28 23:29:44 <raster> hehehehe
Oct 28 23:29:49 <raster> i guess he might be happy
Oct 28 23:30:02 <Kensan> raster: well everybody was impressed so it was not that he had much to say :)
Oct 28 23:30:04 <raster> i try to do the best for those i work for :)
Oct 28 23:30:23 <raster> (even if they disagree - it's for their own good - like medicine!) :)
Oct 28 23:30:26 <BobOfDoom> raster: you usually don't have to recheck out
Oct 28 23:30:30 <BobOfDoom> git delete origin
Oct 28 23:30:33 <BobOfDoom> I mean
Oct 28 23:30:37 <BobOfDoom> git remote rm origin
Oct 28 23:30:43 <BobOfDoom> git remote add origin new-url-here
Oct 28 23:30:47 <BobOfDoom> git fetch
Oct 28 23:30:52 <raster> BobOfDoom: hmmm
Oct 28 23:31:18 <raster> let me try
Oct 28 23:31:20 <Kensan> raster: since you have 25 mbit downstream you could just go for the git clone ;)
Oct 28 23:31:29 <BobOfDoom> but IIRC you said you're in 24mbit, so it probably can't hurt anyway :p
Oct 28 23:31:31 <BobOfDoom> yeah
Oct 28 23:31:41 <raster> BobOfDoom:  does it care if i have uncommitted changes?
Oct 28 23:31:43 <DocScrutinizer2> raster: (own good) *sigh*
Oct 28 23:31:43 <raster> i think it will
Oct 28 23:31:52 <raster> Kensan:  thats what i was going to do
Oct 28 23:31:53 <raster> :)
Oct 28 23:31:56 <BobOfDoom> raster: no, it shouldn't care
Oct 28 23:31:58 <Kensan> raster: git stash
Oct 28 23:32:00 <raster> the :easy way"
Oct 28 23:32:02 <BobOfDoom> git remote and git fetch don't touch the working tree
Oct 28 23:32:09 <Kensan> stash your uncommited stuff so it does not get lost
Oct 28 23:32:39 <raster> DocScrutinizer2: sometimes they dont realise it is for their own good.. or think they know better :) not sure why they would bother paying me then if they already know better :)
Oct 28 23:33:03 <raster> BobOfDoom: let me actually commit my changes
Oct 28 23:33:07 <Kensan> ok boottime back at 50 secs.
Oct 28 23:33:15 <DocScrutinizer2> yup & sigh again
Oct 28 23:33:51 <Dave> :|
Oct 28 23:35:10 <raster> DocScrutinizer2: aaah. they all knowing "sigh"
Oct 28 23:35:34 <raster> one thing i dont know is all this git goop
Oct 28 23:35:42 <Kensan> raster: well I am glad to hear they keep contracting you because Swisscom has been milking me for money long enough. Now they at least spend a teensy fraction of it for something I think is awesome.
Oct 28 23:35:46 <Kensan> ;)
Oct 28 23:36:27 <Kensan> raster: maybe you can watch this while eating breakfast? :http://excess.org/article/2008/07/ogre-git-tutorial/
Oct 28 23:37:15 <raster> Kensan:  hehehehe! :)
Oct 28 23:37:35 <raster> gah
Oct 28 23:37:46 <raster> it's one of those mornjings where i am doing 5 things at once
Oct 28 23:38:06 <raster> shit
Oct 28 23:38:12 <raster> its almost 1.5hrs
Oct 28 23:38:28 <Kensan> heh yes
Oct 28 23:38:56 <Kensan> if you want funny watch Linus make fun of the SVN guys at google.
Oct 28 23:39:39 <Kensan> and read the other page that BobOfDoom posted. Something about git for computer scientists or so.
Oct 28 23:40:19 <Kensan> well I need to catch some sleep. Unlike other people I don't get paid to hang out in this channel.
Oct 28 23:40:21 <raster> yeah
Oct 28 23:40:25 <raster> i know its structure
Oct 28 23:40:31 <raster> i just dont know all the magic incantations
Oct 28 23:40:39 <raster> theres many more incantations than cvs/svn
Oct 28 23:40:47 <Kensan> raster: well yes.
Oct 28 23:40:55 <Dave> heh
Oct 28 23:41:02 <Dave> Buy a magic book?
Oct 28 23:41:29 <Kensan> raster: have you read http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/everyday.html
Oct 28 23:41:31 <DocScrutinizer2> black magic
Oct 28 23:41:32 <Kensan> ?
Oct 28 23:41:45 * ljp doesnt get paid to hang out in the channel, I just hang out in this channel at work :)
Oct 28 23:42:01 <Kensan> lpj: I was hinting at somebody else from Australia...
Oct 28 23:42:15 <Kensan> ehrm ljp that is
Oct 28 23:42:39 <ezekiel-v3> lpr, lpq, hpijs!
Oct 28 23:42:40 <Kensan> lpotter lorn LORN Potter please pick one.
Oct 28 23:42:43 <Kensan> *sigh*
Oct 28 23:42:50 <Kensan> ;)
Oct 28 23:43:05 <Kensan> seems like me brain is already in bed.
Oct 28 23:43:21 <DocScrutinizer2> lol
Oct 28 23:44:08 <viq> Whom with? ;)
Oct 28 23:44:54 <raster> Kensan:  hmm no. thats handy
Oct 28 23:45:15 * ljp is not from Australia, I just hang out here to get free socialistic health care
Oct 28 23:45:32 <Kensan> raster: well, that's like the first link everybody throws around...
Oct 28 23:45:45 <DocScrutinizer2> anybody any comments on EAP_SIM?
Oct 28 23:46:33 <Kensan> raster: well if you convince Swisscom to invite you over Asahi& Eda-mame are on me *heh*
Oct 28 23:47:05 <raster> おいしいいーーー！
Oct 28 23:47:32 <Kensan> raster: in ascii?
Oct 28 23:47:44 <zash> utf8 ftw
Oct 28 23:48:27 <raster> oishiiii----!
Oct 28 23:48:55 <Kensan> right ;)
Oct 28 23:49:30 <Kensan> raster: friends own a jpn restaurant ;)
Oct 28 23:50:16 <Kensan> raster: but I bet you were drinking something other than Asahi...
Oct 28 23:50:49 <raster> they actually brew asahi in .au
Oct 28 23:50:56 <raster> u can get it many places
Oct 28 23:51:00 <raster> tho there's better beers here
Oct 28 23:51:00 <raster> :)
Oct 28 23:52:20 <Kensan> raster: yeah, I guess so. There's also better beer around here ;)
Oct 28 23:52:43 <raster> i'll just do what all japanese people do
Oct 28 23:52:44 <raster> whihc is go
Oct 28 23:52:47 <raster> "sugooiiiii"
Oct 28 23:52:51 <Kensan> hahaha
Oct 28 23:52:53 <raster> or "yabaaaai" (if girl)
Oct 28 23:52:57 <raster> or "yaba!" if guy
Oct 28 23:52:57 <Kensan> *subarashiiii"
Oct 28 23:53:06 <raster> saikoooo!
Oct 28 23:53:13 <Dave> oy
Oct 28 23:53:14 <raster> oos!
Oct 28 23:53:16 <Dave> Stop that, you two.
Oct 28 23:53:21 <Kensan> nihongo wa umain desu neeeee
Oct 28 23:53:26 <raster> kanpeeeei!
Oct 28 23:53:26 <Kensan> banzai!
Oct 28 23:53:28 <Dave> ¬_¬
Oct 28 23:53:36 <Dave> Kids.
Oct 28 23:53:36 <raster> kitten
Oct 28 23:53:38 <raster> :)
Oct 28 23:53:39 <Kensan> Harrrooo
Oct 28 23:53:55 <raster> henna gaijin da ne
Oct 28 23:54:17 <Kensan> so damon
Oct 28 23:54:40 * raster needs to figure out why e drops its locale when illume starts.. lamost got japanses, chinese, portuguese, german, french, etc. etc. all working out of the box
Oct 28 23:54:55 <raster> first boot.. e comes up. asks you for language
Oct 28 23:55:02 <raster> should make our non-english homies most happy
Oct 28 23:55:04 <Kensan> try swiss-german
Oct 28 23:55:07 <Kensan> *muahaha*
Oct 28 23:55:16 <raster> Kensan:  if u want to provide a .po file.....
Oct 28 23:55:21 <raster> more than happy to add it to the list
Oct 28 23:55:21 <raster> :)
Oct 28 23:55:22 <Kensan> hm...
Oct 28 23:55:26 <DocScrutinizer2> gruezi
Oct 28 23:55:36 <Kensan> that would actually be fun
Oct 28 23:55:40 <Kensan> lol
Oct 28 23:55:45 <playya> or schwaebisch
Oct 28 23:55:47 <Kensan> bärndütsch
Oct 28 23:55:51 <Dave> Need translating doen?
Oct 28 23:55:52 <Dave> done
Oct 28 23:55:55 <raster> so far it's the best intl support i've seen for any app
Oct 28 23:56:01 <raster> or desktop - mayb e except kde
Oct 28 23:56:13 <raster> ie first thing it asks u - no fuss. is "what shall i speak"
Oct 28 23:56:26 <Kensan> ok swiss-german would kick ass
Oct 28 23:57:11 <Kensan> well how much translation would that be?
Oct 28 23:57:20 <raster> hmm
Oct 28 23:57:26 <raster> right now i think we have about 1500 strings
Oct 28 23:57:28 <raster> give or take
Oct 28 23:57:34 <raster> but that will be an ever moving target
Oct 28 23:57:54 <raster> and as we need to clean up for release - we'll likely redo a huge bunch of them to make them more "readable"
Oct 28 23:58:38 <slaxxin> so will it be a few days before an openmoko package foe 4.4.2 qtx ?
Oct 28 23:59:44 <Kensan> raster: ok. so basically all subprojects in e-svn with po/ would need a SG equivalent
Oct 29 00:01:13 <BobOfDoom> hmm... is there an Australian translation?  "The bloody printer's chucking a sickie, mate. Go give it a gobful."
Oct 29 00:01:23 <BobOfDoom> also all "Ok" buttons should be replaced with "No worries"
Oct 29 00:01:23 <Kensan> heh
Oct 29 00:01:43 <raster> Kensan: sure
Oct 29 00:01:43 <Dave> o_O
Oct 29 00:01:46 <Dave> that sounds wrong.
Oct 29 00:01:50 <raster> tho really e is the big one
Oct 29 00:01:50 <Kensan> I wonder about Scottish...
Oct 29 00:02:00 <Kensan> raster: k
Oct 29 00:02:07 <raster> BobOfDoom: i intend to do one one day
Oct 29 00:02:15 <raster> BobOfDoom: i just amnot goign to chase a moving target
Oct 29 00:02:16 <raster> :)
Oct 29 00:02:40 <BobOfDoom> :D
Oct 29 00:03:05 * Dave giggles
Oct 29 00:04:13 <raster> i am just happy that our intl infra is there
Oct 29 00:04:15 <raster> and pretty decent
Oct 29 00:04:23 <raster> it's just hyper-picky about the libc/os support being right
Oct 29 00:04:30 <raster> and its unhappy with OE's hacked up stuff
Oct 29 00:05:27 <raster> oooh..
Oct 29 00:05:30 <raster> this is too cute!
Oct 29 00:06:29 <raster> my sms's are in little speech bubbles
Oct 29 00:06:44 <raster> ok
Oct 29 00:06:47 <raster> big problem
Oct 29 00:06:54 <Kensan> PONIES!
Oct 29 00:06:55 <raster> i know why apple dont do copy and past
Oct 29 00:07:06 <raster> text selection vs finger scroll
Oct 29 00:07:10 <raster> they conflict
Oct 29 00:07:31 <BobOfDoom> yep
Oct 29 00:07:32 <raster> i think i need a new ay to do selection
Oct 29 00:07:34 <raster> eg
Oct 29 00:07:40 <raster> double-tap to begin a selection
Oct 29 00:07:41 <Kensan> well I am off. Night all. somebody keep an eye on Dave... he's up to something.
Oct 29 00:07:44 <raster> then double-tap again to stop
Oct 29 00:07:48 <raster> or something of that sort
Oct 29 00:07:56 <raster> or tap+hold to get menu...
Oct 29 00:07:57 <raster> grrr
Oct 29 00:08:06 <BobOfDoom> yeah there's a firefox plugin that does than
Oct 29 00:08:09 <BobOfDoom> kinetic scroll
Oct 29 00:08:12 <Kensan> raster: btw you might want to check out the touchscreen patch
Oct 29 00:08:23 <BobOfDoom> and you do exactly that to select stuff
Oct 29 00:08:35 <BobOfDoom> I found it incredibly annoying.. but maybe it just takes getting used to
Oct 29 00:08:49 <Kensan> raster: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-October/002822.html
Oct 29 00:09:53 <raster> Kensan:  i saw it
Oct 29 00:10:04 <raster> i actually was tempted to put it in myself today to see
Oct 29 00:10:17 <raster> BobOfDoom:  the double-tap?
Oct 29 00:10:27 <BobOfDoom> yeah
Oct 29 00:10:29 <Kensan> raster: I put it in my kernel
Oct 29 00:10:31 <raster> yeah
Oct 29 00:10:39 <raster> i just cant think of too many alternatives really
Oct 29 00:10:42 <BobOfDoom> double tap switches between scroll-mode and selection mode
Oct 29 00:11:43 <BobOfDoom> although apple's case I wonder why they did't just use two fingers for scrolling like they do on the macbooks
Oct 29 00:11:51 <BobOfDoom> maybe they figured it was less intuitive
Oct 29 00:11:53 <raster> Kensan:  how does the patch feel to you?
Oct 29 00:11:57 <raster> in terms of improving?
Oct 29 00:12:17 <raster> BobOfDoom:  i'd use 2 fingers for selecting
Oct 29 00:12:29 <raster> it draw a span with 2 fingers
Oct 29 00:12:40 <Kensan> raster: dude, I am in the "let's get the boot faster" department. I have nothing to do with UI whatsoever
Oct 29 00:12:43 <BobOfDoom> ah
Oct 29 00:12:45 <Kensan> I wash my hands
Oct 29 00:12:47 <BobOfDoom> you mean between the fingers?yeah
Oct 29 00:12:50 <Kensan> ;)
Oct 29 00:13:00 <BobOfDoom> I was thinking two fingers would be too inaccurate for selecting
Oct 29 00:13:03 <BobOfDoom> but I suppose like that it works
Oct 29 00:13:38 <raster> BobOfDoom: well its less comon that scrolling
Oct 29 00:13:45 <raster> so i'd say make it the more complex action
Oct 29 00:13:55 <BobOfDoom> true
Oct 29 00:16:31 <raster> but normally u only have 1 touch point
Oct 29 00:16:35 <raster> and so u have to work with that
Oct 29 00:17:45 <raster> crap so much to do!
Oct 29 00:21:50 <Dave> So much to do, so little coffee, huh raster?
Oct 29 00:22:42 <raster> Dave:  coffee has no effect on me
Oct 29 00:22:44 <raster> i'm immune
Oct 29 00:22:53 <Dave> Caffeine, that is?
Oct 29 00:23:01 <techiem2-r> warble
Oct 29 00:23:59 <Dave> It has no visible effects on me either; then there's the fact I hate coffee.
Oct 29 00:24:16 * Dave warbles techie
Oct 29 00:24:18 <raster> Dave:  correct
Oct 29 00:30:46 <raster> ooh
Oct 29 00:30:53 <raster> these bubbles are... so cute!
Oct 29 00:31:16 <raster> coming up a treat
Oct 29 00:37:14 <break_free> so what's with my freerunner beeping extremely loudly after I end every call? 
Oct 29 00:37:21 <break_free> with qtextended
Oct 29 00:38:26 <slaxxin> 4.4.2?
Oct 29 00:39:36 <break_free> 4.4.1
Oct 29 00:41:25 <break_free> weird, no? reflashing temporarily fixed the problem
Oct 29 00:46:01 <DocScrutinizer2> messed-up audio scenarios / mixer settings?
Oct 29 00:47:52 <raster> ooh
Oct 29 00:47:54 <raster> so cute!
Oct 29 00:53:59 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/elementary-bubbles-1.png
Oct 29 00:54:02 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/elementary-bubbles-2.png
Oct 29 00:54:09 <raster> mah bubblez
Oct 29 00:59:48 <Dave> BUBBLES
Oct 29 01:00:58 <zash> raster: nice
Oct 29 01:01:10 <raster> aye
Oct 29 01:01:12 <raster> bubbles
Oct 29 01:01:21 <raster> on my path to... "nice sms app"
Oct 29 01:02:50 <zash> seamless integration of im/sms would be nice
Oct 29 01:03:07 <raster> zash: eventually
Oct 29 01:03:13 <raster> thats why i'm making "more" than sms
Oct 29 01:03:24 <raster> ie phone number + date + text
Oct 29 01:04:19 <raster> it should support a bit more
Oct 29 01:04:50 <raster> but its enouhg for im stuff i think
Oct 29 01:05:04 <raster> but for now - if i can just have the phone bits all nice.. i'll be happy
Oct 29 01:08:50 <BobOfDoom> raster: oooh sexy
Oct 29 01:09:05 <raster> on a stick
Oct 29 01:09:12 <raster> getting there...
Oct 29 01:09:25 <raster> thats where my "this scroll+selecting doesnt quite work together" thing coems from
Oct 29 01:09:28 <raster> the text is selectable
Oct 29 01:09:28 <BobOfDoom> the idea is to have photo where the e logo is?
Oct 29 01:09:31 <raster> but also scrollable
Oct 29 01:09:35 <raster> BobOfDoom:  bingo
Oct 29 01:09:40 <raster> and i also have a "right" bubble
Oct 29 01:09:52 <raster> it the stuff on the right side (icon etc.)
Oct 29 01:09:55 <raster> ie a flipped version
Oct 29 01:10:01 <raster> the idea:
Oct 29 01:10:08 <raster> u go to sms and it opens up with ALL smss
Oct 29 01:10:09 <raster> all u sent
Oct 29 01:10:11 <raster> all u recieved
Oct 29 01:10:27 <BobOfDoom> should the bubble's arrow thing be at the top, not the bottom? so it's pointing at the photo?
Oct 29 01:10:42 <BobOfDoom> or.. is it associated with the one below the bubble
Oct 29 01:10:49 <raster> inside each message at the top i'll add a delete button
Oct 29 01:10:52 <raster> and a "filteR" button
Oct 29 01:10:53 <raster> ie
Oct 29 01:11:03 <raster> display only messages from/to this person
Oct 29 01:11:12 <raster> if it si a message u sent
Oct 29 01:11:17 <raster> then only messages in your outbox
Oct 29 01:11:20 <raster> if its someone else
Oct 29 01:11:27 <raster> then all messages from them and to them from u
Oct 29 01:11:42 <raster> btew
Oct 29 01:11:44 <raster> btw
Oct 29 01:11:47 <raster> it is pointing at the photo
Oct 29 01:11:51 <raster> the title etc. is at the bottom
Oct 29 01:11:53 <raster> not the top
Oct 29 01:12:00 <BobOfDoom> ah ok
Oct 29 01:12:02 <raster> thats just how i chose to do it
Oct 29 01:12:05 <raster> it felt better that way
Oct 29 01:12:11 <Dave> RasterOfDoom
Oct 29 01:12:12 <BobOfDoom> maybe it needs some seperator or something
Oct 29 01:12:12 <raster> aesthetically
Oct 29 01:12:18 <raster> yeah
Oct 29 01:12:23 <raster> thats just a test app tho
Oct 29 01:12:27 <raster> its the widget set test tool
Oct 29 01:12:29 <raster> not a real app
Oct 29 01:12:30 <BobOfDoom> yeah, I understand
Oct 29 01:12:30 <raster> :)
Oct 29 01:12:39 <raster> but it gets u an idea of where things are heading
Oct 29 01:13:07 <raster> i spend mroe time now doing gfx drawing and ui layout/design than code
Oct 29 01:13:21 <raster> that says somethnig for how little code is needed to make a widget :)
Oct 29 01:13:37 <raster> the problem is its so temptign to just go wild with gazillions of widgets
Oct 29 01:13:41 <raster> as its so easy
Oct 29 01:13:58 <gurugentoo1> that's a problem?
Oct 29 01:14:00 <gurugentoo1> hehe
Oct 29 01:14:03 <BobOfDoom> XD
Oct 29 01:14:30 <BobOfDoom> gurugentoo1: if you have too many widgets things start to lack consistency
Oct 29 01:15:00 <BobOfDoom> gurugentoo1: user has to learn them all, can't just reapply knowledge from one app to another
Oct 29 01:16:01 <Dave> widget whore :p
Oct 29 01:16:18 <raster> gurugentoo1: well it means that the api is likely to blow out with milliosn of special-purpose widgets rather than more general-purpose
Oct 29 01:16:20 <raster> then again
Oct 29 01:16:23 <raster> that possibly is good
Oct 29 01:16:26 <BobOfDoom> raster: but yeah, looking good.  How would I reply to someone, tap their photo and get a menu like "Reply, Call" etc?
Oct 29 01:16:28 <raster> as it makes usign a widget simpler
Oct 29 01:16:36 <raster> as it doesnt have a whole bunch of "magic tricks" and options
Oct 29 01:16:37 <raster> etc.
Oct 29 01:16:54 <Dave> console phone app using ncurses please.
Oct 29 01:17:02 <raster> BobOfDoom:  oh i am goign to put buttons in the bubble
Oct 29 01:17:09 <raster> above/below the text
Oct 29 01:17:14 <BobOfDoom> ah cool
Oct 29 01:17:20 <BobOfDoom> nice and visible then
Oct 29 01:17:22 <gurugentoo1> Dave: hope you're kidding
Oct 29 01:17:24 <raster> ie "delete" "filter" "reply"
Oct 29 01:17:29 <raster> on each message
Oct 29 01:17:31 <Dave> hardly
Oct 29 01:17:33 <raster> so its easy to hit and see
Oct 29 01:17:45 <gurugentoo1> Dave: better than nothing I guess
Oct 29 01:17:49 <Dave> right
Oct 29 01:18:04 <Dave> guru, and when there isn't a single well working dialer app...
Oct 29 01:18:05 <Dave> yeah :)
Oct 29 01:18:24 <raster> Dave:  dialler si much simpler
Oct 29 01:18:34 <raster> so simple its just a table with number buttons
Oct 29 01:18:38 <raster> an entry to display it
Oct 29 01:18:42 <raster> and a dial/hangung
Oct 29 01:18:46 <raster> its CONTACTS thats tough
Oct 29 01:18:58 <BobOfDoom> yes
Oct 29 01:18:59 <raster> the problem also is the backend gsm handling still
Oct 29 01:19:03 <raster> the ui is a cakewalk
Oct 29 01:19:14 <BobOfDoom> especially if you want to mix say email contacts with SIM contacts
Oct 29 01:19:17 <raster> so i'm tackling the more "interesting" thing now
Oct 29 01:19:19 <raster> sms/text stuff
Oct 29 01:19:28 <raster> as its much more stuff to sovle to get text stuff working well
Oct 29 01:19:35 <raster> BobOfDoom:  yup.
Oct 29 01:20:17 <raster> one problem i am goign to havto wrestle with is if elementary should know anything of thngs like dbus  and fso api's
Oct 29 01:20:30 <raster> or elementary shoudl strick to the widgets and display/user interaction side ONLY
Oct 29 01:20:42 <Dave> Raster, no offense, but I'd like a dialer that looks like a simple calculator.
Oct 29 01:20:45 <raster> and if another lib that interfaces fso dbus api to widgets shoudl do that stuff
Oct 29 01:20:46 <Dave> fisher price calculator
Oct 29 01:20:50 <Dave> :)
Oct 29 01:20:57 <raster> Dave:  thats what i was saying
Oct 29 01:21:02 <raster> its so simple
Oct 29 01:21:03 <raster> its boring
Oct 29 01:21:07 <Dave> YAY
Oct 29 01:21:09 <raster> so i havent done it
Oct 29 01:21:12 <raster> al lthe widgets for that are done
Oct 29 01:21:20 * Dave hugs raster
Oct 29 01:21:20 <gurugentoo1> (boo)
Oct 29 01:21:28 <raster> i dont have to do anything but the ui layout and glue it into actually dialling
Oct 29 01:21:29 <gurugentoo1> yay
Oct 29 01:21:37 <raster> thats why its "not in the test suite"
Oct 29 01:21:38 <Dave> Sure people can have their eye candy and mountains of extraneous bullshit
Oct 29 01:21:52 <raster> right now i am creating the toolset
Oct 29 01:21:55 <raster> not the end product
Oct 29 01:21:56 <Dave> I am vehemently against extraneous bullshit, as I like to call it.
Oct 29 01:22:02 <evolux> argh, anybody running mokopedia?
Oct 29 01:22:05 <Dave> haha
Oct 29 01:22:08 <evolux> i'm trying to setup title search
Oct 29 01:22:09 <raster> i just need to make sure i have all the right tools made SO the end product can be made
Oct 29 01:53:11 <pjz> I think a good dialer should be integrated with the contacts
Oct 29 01:53:56 <pjz> keep a LRU cache sorted by use of 'most dialed'
Oct 29 01:54:18 <pjz> b/c by nature that will handle 90% of your outgoing calls, most likely
Oct 29 01:55:26 <pjz> then have the call log view(s), and finally a raw number dialer
Oct 29 01:56:56 <pjz> though a contacts list that was a real PIM app and imported/exported vcards would be nice; mostly for the ability to merge phone numbers: work/home/cell etc.  The stuff on the sim card doesn't handle that.  
Oct 29 01:57:04 <pjz> And as long as I'm wishing, how about SyncML import/export ?
Oct 29 01:57:08 <pjz> :)
Oct 29 01:57:25 <Dave> :D
Oct 29 02:00:44 <Dave> Guru guru guru
Oct 29 02:00:52 <gurugentoo> ya...weird
Oct 29 02:01:01 <Dave> :P
Oct 29 02:01:26 <gurugentoo> my ISP is a pos at times
Oct 29 02:05:26 <raster> pjz: i know. agreed.
Oct 29 02:07:52 <pjz> I kind of cordially despise the qtopia dialer
Oct 29 02:22:05 <kd8ikt> yes
Oct 29 02:22:38 <kd8ikt> i need to make a superduper great image
Oct 29 02:24:01 <kd8ikt> OM2008.9 = ugh who did the gsm stuff? i thought you did? oh s%$#
Oct 29 02:24:28 <kd8ikt> psst letz fake it
Oct 29 02:24:37 <slaxxin> fdom= whats left to do?
Oct 29 02:26:03 <slaxxin> the bleeding edge says to have fixed thr reregestering bug  but the dialer wouldnt work
Oct 29 02:27:05 <kd8ikt> must be something else then ;D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 29 02:59:57 2008