**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 26 02:59:57 2008
Dec 26 04:31:18 <kd8ikt> hm
Dec 26 05:17:11 <Digital_Pioneer> From the wiki, it almost sounds like it's saying there is no benefit to having two tri-axis accelerometers... What am I missing? If there's no benefit, why have two?
Dec 26 05:33:05 <Digital_Pioneer> Just read the Accelerometer Fundamentals page on the wiki, and while I didn't understand about half of it, I leave it with two feelings: having two accelerometers is totally useless, and the accelerometers in the FR are not specific enough to be useful for anything except detecting large, sharp movements. Someone tell me I misread it...
Dec 26 05:51:02 <jonsmith1982> you should experiment with the output of events 2 'n' 3
Dec 26 05:51:53 * rooly sighs
Dec 26 05:52:01 <rooly> no luck on my brand new mobo
Dec 26 06:04:41 <Digital_Pioneer> jonsmith1982: I'd love to start writing accelerometer-aware programs, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to use the data they provide. :P
Dec 26 06:10:49 <Digital_Pioneer> Now this is weird... I fixed (don't ask me how, but it's gone) the bug that makes accelerometers only report when they aren't moving for event2, but somehow completely killed event3 (it no longer reports anything, ever)
Dec 26 06:16:03 <Digital_Pioneer> event3 is back online (magically?) and fully functional... Both accelerometers now working correctly.
Dec 26 06:19:47 <Biovore> probably a  chrismas merrical of some sort ?
Dec 26 06:33:53 <IguanaNed> Hello all
Dec 26 06:36:37 <IguanaNed> Just curious what distribution people are using on FR... just installed android and was a bit dissapointed
Dec 26 06:40:26 * rooly is sticking to the good ol' stable and reliable qtopia 4.3.2 guns
Dec 26 06:41:48 <IguanaNed> rooly.. how is wifi on qtopia?
Dec 26 06:42:06 <rooly> hmm
Dec 26 06:42:19 <h4v> SHR here
Dec 26 06:42:29 <rooly> requires the forcing of nameservers
Dec 26 06:42:38 <rooly> but it works
Dec 26 06:42:52 <rooly> however, qt4.3.2 seems to crash any program attempting a dns lookup
Dec 26 06:42:57 <rooly> not that i need internet all that much
Dec 26 08:02:43 <Psi> hm.. to give my gta01 networking i set my linux box to bridge usb0 and eth0 and create br0. It all works fine but if i unplug and replug the usb it stops working
Dec 26 08:03:08 <Psi> any ideas how i could fix that, so i can just plug the neo usb in and the networking will work
Dec 26 08:14:46 <dns53> well i run a shell script to get it working every time, you could mess with udev if you want
Dec 26 08:15:14 <Psi> yeah, i have to type  brctl addif br0 usb0
Dec 26 08:15:31 <Psi> usb0 gets removed from the bridge when ya unplug the usb
Dec 26 08:22:30 <f3ew> I setup a NAT for the Freerunner
Dec 26 08:22:48 <Psi> yeah, i thought of that but it seems quite complicated
Dec 26 08:22:58 * f3ew waits for the Nokia battery to charge so he can figure out why the original FR battery didn't change on 2008.12
Dec 26 08:23:09 <f3ew> It's not complicated
Dec 26 08:23:10 <Psi> bridging the neo onto your network directly seems easier
Dec 26 08:23:54 <f3ew> sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1; iptables -t nat -s 192.168.0.202 -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE;
Dec 26 08:24:06 <f3ew> Then plug usb in and ifconfig usb0 up
Dec 26 08:24:26 <f3ew> but still same pain
Dec 26 08:42:48 <Psi> how well does wifi wpa work in qtextended on gta02? I only have a gta01 so have no idea
Dec 26 08:56:32 <dns53> wpa should work fine
Dec 26 09:03:56 <bipak_> hi
Dec 26 09:04:27 <bipak_> any easy way to invoke AT%SLEEP=2 on 2008.12?
Dec 26 09:05:28 <Psi> do i need to flash to a newer uboot to boot a gta01 from sd?
Dec 26 09:13:02 <cga> hi all, anyone installed dfu-util on a fedora 10 64 bit?
Dec 26 09:13:55 <cga> i'd like to know which 32 libs need to be installed
Dec 26 09:14:34 <admiral0> you need to compile it for 64 bit
Dec 26 09:14:50 <Psi> anyone able to help me, im think i need to flash to a newer gta01 uboot but i dont have a debug board so i need to be sure its a working copy 
Dec 26 09:14:57 <Psi> im=i
Dec 26 09:15:08 <admiral0> Psi:why?
Dec 26 09:15:17 <Psi> i want to boot from the SDcard
Dec 26 09:16:04 <admiral0> well you don't need to flash NOR
Dec 26 09:16:10 <Psi> gta01 has no NOR
Dec 26 09:16:38 <admiral0> sorry i was thinking freerunner ^^
Dec 26 09:17:30 <Psi> the only uboot images i can find are here http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/
Dec 26 09:17:50 <Psi> but testing and unstable arent the words i want to see when looking for a uboot copy
Dec 26 09:18:59 <admiral0> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_1973#Actually_flashing_things_into_the_device
Dec 26 09:19:27 <Psi> yeah, it says get uboot from here, but its a 404
Dec 26 09:20:21 <admiral0> take it from here http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.12/ ;)
Dec 26 09:21:13 <admiral0> i don't know which of the two files..
Dec 26 09:21:31 <Psi> its the uboot one, the lowlevel is something else
Dec 26 09:21:39 <PBeck> hi
Dec 26 09:21:53 <dns53> hey
Dec 26 09:27:12 <Mononoke> gah tangogps segfaults on my gconf file and I have no clue why
Dec 26 09:27:20 <Mononoke> seems like problem with str len
Dec 26 09:31:02 <goxboxlive> Anyone know if the android gta02 image is compatible with gta01?
Dec 26 09:31:18 <Psi> i think you have to do some trickery
Dec 26 09:31:25 <bipak_> anyone with 2008.12 in here?
Dec 26 09:31:32 <Psi> cos the kernel is to big
Dec 26 09:32:06 <Psi> from memory gta01 is set for no bigger than 2MB kernel and the android one is larger than that
Dec 26 09:33:57 <Psi> well, i just flashed the uboot on my gta01
Dec 26 09:34:08 <Psi> now, to see if its bricked or not
Dec 26 09:35:08 <Psi> yay, it turned on :)
Dec 26 09:35:38 <Psi> still doesnt boot from sd tho, guess ive not set the sd card up correctly
Dec 26 09:39:55 <f3ew> bipak_ I had it
Dec 26 09:40:37 <f3ew> I still have it on the device, but it needs power and I don't have power to it right now
Dec 26 09:40:37 <bipak_> f3ew: i have problems to get the qwerty button and the wrench in the menu ..
Dec 26 09:40:46 <f3ew> I do too
Dec 26 09:41:01 <bipak_> :\
Dec 26 09:41:03 * f3ew didn't manage to solve that issue
Dec 26 09:41:15 <bipak_> very annoying
Dec 26 09:41:36 <bipak_> any idea where to look?
Dec 26 09:43:23 <bipak_> haven't found something on the mailings list..
Dec 26 09:44:24 <goxboxlive> Psi: ok i c, thx
Dec 26 09:45:19 <Psi> np
Dec 26 09:46:15 <f3ew> bipak_ no idea
Dec 26 09:46:44 <bipak_> what are they doing :\
Dec 26 09:48:08 <f3ew> NFC
Dec 26 09:52:20 <cga> mmmmm i get an error with svn trying to downaload dfu-util as shown on the wiki. error 400 bad request. any idea?
Dec 26 09:56:01 <Mononoke> passwd on openmoko reacts on max 8 chars ?
Dec 26 10:07:32 <Psi> hm.. i wonder if the reason i cant get it to boot from sd is that uboot is expecting /boot/uImage  and the wiki guide says create uImage.bin
Dec 26 10:07:45 * Psi removes extention and tries again
Dec 26 10:09:32 <Psi> yep, thats the problem
Dec 26 10:09:37 * Psi corrects wiki
Dec 26 10:58:36 <edje> hi, does anyone know how to select a font on om2008.12 ?
Dec 26 10:58:53 <edje> i want xmessage to use a large sized font
Dec 26 11:14:49 <Psi> hmm.. any idea why X doesnt start when i boot off the sdcard?
Dec 26 11:22:58 <dns53> run fsck on the card
Dec 26 11:47:46 <bipak_> huh? no echo fix in 2008.12?
Dec 26 11:50:16 <sreekanth> Hi all
Dec 26 11:51:12 <sreekanth> What is the current status of Android for Open moko ?
Dec 26 11:51:19 <sreekanth> Is it stable ??
Dec 26 11:51:37 <sreekanth> Is it fine for application development ? 
Dec 26 11:55:13 <laen> How is it possible that i _suddenly_ experience the Calypso problem, while i never had it before?
Dec 26 11:55:46 <SpeedEvil> Which problem? :/
Dec 26 11:56:04 <h4v> Is there a way to have unblanked screen on SHR?
Dec 26 11:56:08 <laen> GSM reregistering every minute SpeedEvil?
Dec 26 11:56:16 <SpeedEvil> AH
Dec 26 11:56:37 <laen> Never had that before and suddenly i get it no matter what distro i put on the moko.
Dec 26 11:57:30 <bipak_> laen: that might be interessting for the devs
Dec 26 11:57:48 <laen> Well, i can hook up the phone and let em dev on it if they want :P
Dec 26 11:59:28 <bipak_> :)
Dec 26 11:59:42 <laen> But i rather like to get rid of this problem i never had before.
Dec 26 12:01:16 <bipak_> hmm well, until i changed to 2008.12 i had it. now its gone. but you have it.. maybe its some magic
Dec 26 12:01:35 <jonsmith1982> is the freerunner supposed to turn its self on (not in suspended state) when an alarm is due? tis a bit of a bug, is it not?
Dec 26 12:01:38 <laen> I know, it's like my Xmas present! Here laen, some Calypso for you! :P
Dec 26 12:01:44 <bipak_> haha
Dec 26 12:02:48 <dns53> qtopia does wake up, not sure about the other images
Dec 26 12:03:11 <wondering> Just womdering if anyone has tried or is trying to do something to simplify controlling the maps and/or images, such as tap+hold followed by a (counter)clockwise twist zooming in/out?
Dec 26 12:03:29 <laen> bipak_: do you know if it's an issue solved in the kernel or userspace programs?
Dec 26 12:03:40 <jonsmith1982> Om.2008.12 boots up for an alarm as well as wakes up.
Dec 26 12:03:54 <bipak_> laen: you need to send an at command AT%SLEEP=2 to the calipso after startup
Dec 26 12:04:19 <dns53> wondering it should be easy but i don't think anyone has done anything like that yet
Dec 26 12:04:48 <laen> Sounds like userspace.
Dec 26 12:04:52 <bipak_> yes
Dec 26 12:05:29 <wondering> hmmm, honestly I don't even have one yet, I was thinking about contributing something if I ended up buying a freerunner, they DO have accellerometer's yes?
Dec 26 12:06:55 <laen> Oh well i'm glad it's solvable. The thing was draining my batt.
Dec 26 12:07:58 <henk> wondering: yes
Dec 26 12:08:01 <bipak_> whcih dist do you have laen
Dec 26 12:08:19 <wondering> Thank you henk and dns53
Dec 26 12:08:21 <laen> Qtextended 4.2 which isn't showing it but beeing drained crazily fast, and Debian.
Dec 26 12:08:32 <bipak_> ah ok 
Dec 26 12:09:10 <bipak_> i think on qtopia you need to play with gsmmuxd to be able to send commands to the chip 
Dec 26 12:09:31 <laen> Nah i'm hoping to get rid of everything besides Debian.
Dec 26 12:09:50 <bipak_> how usefull is debian right now on the phone?
Dec 26 12:09:53 <laen> I'm not so hot for custom distro's.
Dec 26 12:10:00 <bipak_> are there phoneapps etc.?
Dec 26 12:10:02 <laen> Well, if you can live with Zhone it's okay :P
Dec 26 12:10:07 <bipak_> hehe
Dec 26 12:10:23 <laen> But besides Zhone, which isn't working.. there's not much. lindi- is developing Kapula and thats becoming quite sexy :)
Dec 26 12:10:36 <laen> Zhone's not working here now btw, normally it works.
Dec 26 12:10:41 <bipak_> aha cool
Dec 26 12:10:54 <dns53> i think someone was going to port the shr illume and phone apps to debian
Dec 26 12:11:03 <laen> Oo niiiice!
Dec 26 12:11:21 <bipak_> yeah taht would be cool :)
Dec 26 12:34:33 <Mononoke> anyone having googlemaps on tangogps?
Dec 26 12:35:28 <Mononoke> I have http://khm3.google.com/kh?v=34&hl=en&x=%d&y=%d&z=%d&s=Galileo with inverted zoom, if I got it right it means that zoom is last %d
Dec 26 12:36:36 <Mononoke> but as well it seems like it was fully inverted because when I have zoom 6 it has zoom 11 and I have no clue how to get it to use last %d and normal zoom.
Dec 26 12:39:05 <Mononoke> should I just change it to http://khm3.google.com/kh?v=34&hl=en&z=%d&x=%d&y=%d&s=Galileo ? :)
Dec 26 12:53:33 <tifereth> wasnt there a guide how to open up the complete freerunner cover?
Dec 26 13:03:18 <sebbs> could someone tell me what applications are avalible for SHR? im trying to figure out if stuff like mutt works
Dec 26 13:05:00 <raph_ael> there's a shell, it's enlightenment, it should be usable
Dec 26 13:07:33 <sebbs> raph_ael: is there a package manager?
Dec 26 13:07:48 <dns53> opkg
Dec 26 13:08:37 <dns53> tifereth look on the wiki for the getting started guide
Dec 26 13:08:44 <tifereth> already got it
Dec 26 13:08:59 <tifereth> ... but theres only a guide for opening the back cover
Dec 26 13:09:10 <tifereth> but the 1973 guide is nearly the same
Dec 26 13:13:58 <leia_20> hello!
Dec 26 13:14:12 <sebbs> hi leia_20 
Dec 26 13:14:12 <leia_20> alguien habla español?
Dec 26 13:14:20 <sebbs> si un pocito
Dec 26 13:14:43 <leia_20> me han regalado un neo free runner :)
Dec 26 13:14:54 <leia_20> quiero instalarle debian, pero no lo consigo
Dec 26 13:15:11 <leia_20> me podeis ayudar?
Dec 26 13:15:28 <sebbs> ¿has leído el tutorial?
Dec 26 13:15:31 <leia_20> si
Dec 26 13:15:40 <leia_20> me bajo el install.sh
Dec 26 13:15:44 <sebbs> ¿cuál es el problema?
Dec 26 13:15:49 <leia_20> y hago un install.sh all
Dec 26 13:15:56 <leia_20> y no me hace las particiones
Dec 26 13:16:44 <leia_20> :(
Dec 26 13:16:46 <sebbs> ¿qué hace el install.sh decir?
Dec 26 13:17:05 <leia_20> E: Partitioning has failed, partitions have not been created
Dec 26 13:17:30 <sebbs> lol lo siento por mi mal español, sólo he vivido aquí durante un año
Dec 26 13:17:36 <sebbs> hmm :(
Dec 26 13:17:45 <Mortak> hi all
Dec 26 13:17:47 <leia_20> we can try in english if you want
Dec 26 13:18:02 <sebbs> puh good :)
Dec 26 13:18:07 <sebbs> i have not seen that error before
Dec 26 13:18:09 <GNUtoo> ok mabe the sd-card has problems: try to lower clock of sd-controller
Dec 26 13:18:23 <leia_20> how?
Dec 26 13:18:50 <GNUtoo> it's a kernel parameter...i'm looking for it now
Dec 26 13:18:57 <leia_20> thank's!
Dec 26 13:20:34 <sebbs> leia_20: otherwise you could try to partition it yourself, and then skip that part of the installation
Dec 26 13:21:02 <GNUtoo> echo 10000000 > /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_max_clk or:
Dec 26 13:21:58 <leia_20> -sh: cannot create /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_max_clk: nonexistent directory
Dec 26 13:22:05 <GNUtoo> ok
Dec 26 13:23:00 <leia_20> :(
Dec 26 13:23:36 <GNUtoo> glamo_mci.sd_max_clk=10000000 as kernel parameter(you need to modify uboot's parameters)
Dec 26 13:24:04 <leia_20> ... how?
Dec 26 13:24:33 <GNUtoo> a good idea is to partebin dmesg so i can verify that it's realy the problem because doing that is complicated
Dec 26 13:24:47 <leia_20> :'(
Dec 26 13:25:15 <GNUtoo> you should have things like glamo-mci glamo-mci.0: Error after cmd: 0x120
Dec 26 13:25:26 <leia_20> ajam
Dec 26 13:26:38 <GNUtoo> i'll look for the right serial console emulator
Dec 26 13:26:55 <GNUtoo> do you have picocom?
Dec 26 13:27:08 <leia_20> i thought that install debian it would be easier :( may i have try with openmoko, what's are the correct repos?
Dec 26 13:28:05 <GNUtoo> leia_20, the correct repos for what?
Dec 26 13:28:34 <leia_20> i have change the repos of opkg and make a opkg upgrade, then crash
Dec 26 13:28:42 <leia_20> or "half crash"
Dec 26 13:28:45 <GNUtoo> leia_20, which distro?
Dec 26 13:28:52 <GNUtoo> what error message?
Dec 26 13:28:55 <leia_20> 2008.8
Dec 26 13:29:00 <GNUtoo> ok
Dec 26 13:29:10 <GNUtoo> ah ok
Dec 26 13:29:17 <leia_20> don't error only a looooong time to boot
Dec 26 13:29:42 <GNUtoo> leia_20, ok and what repos did you put?
Dec 26 13:30:03 <leia_20> i change 2007.2 (i think) with 2008.8
Dec 26 13:30:05 <leia_20> :)
Dec 26 13:30:24 <GNUtoo> leia_20, so it's simple...just reflash with 2008.12
Dec 26 13:30:36 <leia_20> how i reflash?
Dec 26 13:30:46 <GNUtoo> leia_20, if i remember there are good GUI for reflashing
Dec 26 13:30:58 <GNUtoo> but i don't remember their names...i'll look
Dec 26 13:30:59 <Mortak> "neotool"
Dec 26 13:31:02 <Mortak> ^^
Dec 26 13:31:03 <GNUtoo> ok
Dec 26 13:31:17 <leia_20> how i do a reflash with 2008.12?
Dec 26 13:31:24 <Mortak> it seems to be the only tool which can backup my fr
Dec 26 13:32:00 <GNUtoo> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool
Dec 26 13:32:13 <leia_20> ok! iwill try, back in few minuts
Dec 26 13:32:31 <Mortak> leia_20: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner
Dec 26 13:32:47 <GNUtoo> leia_20, i advise against using dfu-util directly if you are not familiar with the command line because:
Dec 26 13:33:32 <GNUtoo> dfu is a standard...and you could have bad luck and have more than one dfu-device 
Dec 26 13:33:49 <GNUtoo> so better use a frontend that recognise the neo
Dec 26 13:34:45 <GNUtoo> by the way debian is great,runs on sd-card but is not very optimized for the freerunner
Dec 26 13:35:15 <henk> GNUtoo: you might want to try hackable:1. based on debian but customized for the FR
Dec 26 13:35:39 <GNUtoo> henk, wow for instance does mplayer use tremor and mad?
Dec 26 13:36:39 <henk> GNUtoo: afaik they are just using the standard debian repository, but the distribution delivers with some sensible default config... 
Dec 26 13:36:47 <sebbs> could someone direct me to documentation for creating opkg packages?
Dec 26 13:36:52 <henk> GNUtoo: no optimized packages afaik
Dec 26 13:37:12 <GNUtoo> sebbs, use the Makefile of your distribution or openembedded
Dec 26 13:37:13 <henk> sebbs: wiki...
Dec 26 13:37:19 <GNUtoo> henk, ok
Dec 26 13:37:23 <henk> sebbs: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opkg
Dec 26 13:38:06 <sebbs> henk: ah "You can learn how to create own Opkg packages on the Ipkg site." brilliant, cheers
Dec 26 13:38:21 <Mortak> eek, the shr default ringtone sucks :)
Dec 26 13:38:49 <sebbs> and if i would like to commit packages for the community, where should i put them?
Dec 26 13:39:50 <henk> sebbs: i'd put them on opkg.org, link them on the Software page in the wiki and set up a repository or ask someone running an repository to add my package.
Dec 26 13:40:56 <sebbs> are the ipkg-build tools avalible on the phone? (which distro has them?)
Dec 26 13:41:23 <sebbs> i figured i would try to get mutt working
Dec 26 13:41:56 <sebbs> but i guess it will require ssl and such too, imap stuff. might be too much
Dec 26 13:41:59 <laen> Mutt, the email client that doesn't suck less.
Dec 26 13:42:28 <sebbs> laen: ^^
Dec 26 13:42:51 <laen> Been using it for quite a while now, and still use it, though i wonder why.
Dec 26 13:43:00 <sebbs> laen: why not?
Dec 26 13:43:34 <laen> Cause it's unstable, crashy, configuration is a mess setup, and so on.
Dec 26 13:43:40 <sebbs> ?
Dec 26 13:43:48 <sebbs> which version are you running?
Dec 26 13:43:56 <laen> lemme see
Dec 26 13:44:07 <sebbs> configuration is not that bad, im a sys admin, have you ever seen the squid config file?
Dec 26 13:44:26 <laen> Mutt 1.5.16 (2007-06-09)
Dec 26 13:44:41 <laen> sebbs: Nope.
Dec 26 13:45:17 <sebbs> iirc, 1.4.2.3 is stable
Dec 26 13:45:59 <sebbs> laen: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/examples/squid.conf
Dec 26 13:46:03 <laen> If Mutt was that good, why are you advised to install other programs along it to get your mail? If the config file was good, why can you use so many different ways of writing a setting? And why isn't there proper multi-account available (tried 6 IMAP accounts yet?).
Dec 26 13:46:53 <laen> Sysadmin here too btw.
Dec 26 13:47:22 * lindi- migrated from mutt to gnus a few months ago
Dec 26 13:47:31 <henk> laen: i use two imap accounts...
Dec 26 13:47:31 <sebbs> gnus?
Dec 26 13:47:35 <sebbs> me too
Dec 26 13:47:36 <laen> Surely gonna try that now lindi- :)
Dec 26 13:47:38 <henk> laen: s/two/more than one/
Dec 26 13:48:28 <laen> henk: well it's fine if your IMAP servers are allways okay. But if one goes down, you gotta kill -9 mutt cause when it gets a faulty connect, your whole mutt app hangs.
Dec 26 13:48:43 <henk> laen: oh... that sucks.
Dec 26 13:49:35 <sebbs> laen: i can understand that being a problem, ive never had that happend though, you should file a bug report.
Dec 26 13:49:35 <laen> Anyway, time to boot the new kernel, brb :)
Dec 26 13:49:39 <sebbs> :)
Dec 26 13:50:16 <sebbs> lindi-: what is gnus? seems to be a news reader
Dec 26 13:50:59 <lindi-> sebbs: it reads email too
Dec 26 13:51:23 <sebbs> oh cool, ive been looking for a proper rss client for console
Dec 26 13:51:37 <sebbs> ah emacs :S
Dec 26 13:53:19 <sebbs> but wow it looks great though
Dec 26 13:53:35 <sebbs> lindi-: does it splitscreen like this in console? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Gnus-reading-news.png
Dec 26 13:54:17 <lindi-> sebbs: those are normal emacs buffers. they have split screen'd since at least '86
Dec 26 13:54:43 <sebbs> but i mean does it look like that on console?
Dec 26 13:54:50 <sebbs> with the threading and such
Dec 26 13:54:58 <lindi-> more or less
Dec 26 13:55:09 <sebbs> almost makes me wanna learn emacs :/
Dec 26 13:55:21 <sebbs> and ive been using vi since ...
Dec 26 13:55:57 <lindi-> sebbs: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/gnus1.png
Dec 26 13:56:10 <lindi-> but i'm sure you can customize it to look totally different :)
Dec 26 13:56:45 <sebbs> ah i see now, you call it from within emacs, its not a seperate application
Dec 26 13:57:17 <sebbs> oh :) nice screenshot
Dec 26 13:57:36 <sebbs> it will take me atleast 10 years to learn emacs lol
Dec 26 13:57:40 <lindi-> sebbs: i usually launch it with 'emacs -f gnus'
Dec 26 13:57:58 <lindi-> but you can emacs RET M-x gnus RET too
Dec 26 13:59:51 <sebbs> what is RET
Dec 26 13:59:59 <lindi-> sebbs: \n
Dec 26 14:00:16 <lindi-> sebbs: what the ENTER or RETURN key usually sends
Dec 26 14:00:19 <sebbs> oh
Dec 26 14:00:50 <lindi-> sebbs: emacs calls it RET
Dec 26 14:01:07 <sebbs> ok
Dec 26 14:01:16 <lindi-> C-h c RET prints "RET runs the command newline"
Dec 26 14:01:21 <sebbs> is emacs around for opkg?
Dec 26 14:01:53 <lindi-> so the key RET is bound to function "newline". With C-h f newline RET  you see "newline is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `simple'."
Dec 26 14:02:30 <lindi-> sebbs: and when you move over the text `simple' and hit RET it will open a buffer that shows the source code of the function
Dec 26 14:02:34 <lindi-> sebbs: this is why i like emacs :)
Dec 26 14:02:45 <sebbs> oh
Dec 26 14:02:54 <sebbs> so you can link stuff
Dec 26 14:02:57 <lindi-> and then i can modify the function and re-evaluate it
Dec 26 14:03:10 <sebbs> almost like a wiki
Dec 26 14:03:20 <sebbs> does
Dec 26 14:03:27 <sebbs> i think i understand.
Dec 26 14:03:39 <ingi> Q: How do I write a root-fs.jffs file onto på uSD card ? I've read the wiki but I dont seem to get it, can anyone please clarify.
Dec 26 14:03:41 <lindi-> sebbs: bit like what you see on info pages
Dec 26 14:03:51 <lindi-> sebbs: (man pages are inferior since they don't support hyperlinks :P)
Dec 26 14:03:59 <MMlosh> ingi: noooo. use .tar file
Dec 26 14:04:16 <lindi-> ingi: jffs2 filesystem works only on top of MTD devices
Dec 26 14:04:53 <ingi> Right now I have the uSD card in the SD-adapter and almost mounted on my Linux (64-bit Ubuntu/8.10).
Dec 26 14:05:29 <ingi> How do I a) write the .jffs to the uSD card, b) convert the .jffs to -> tar and write it onto the uSD card ?
Dec 26 14:05:59 <MMlosh> ingi: no, download root-fs.tar.gz insted of .jffs
Dec 26 14:06:27 <ingi> I'm using a locally built root-fs.jffs.
Dec 26 14:06:43 <sebbs> lindi-: i will add emacs to my todo list and look into it someday when i have time. until then i will keep my little mutt i think. but the list for pro-emacs is getting bigger all the time. but i feel emacs is almost a OS not a editor
Dec 26 14:06:56 * MMlosh does not know then...
Dec 26 14:07:01 <lindi-> sebbs: the learning curve is bit sharp in the beginning
Dec 26 14:07:27 <sebbs> lindi-: yea, it would take atleast a weekend to read through all the docs i would think to get started
Dec 26 14:07:34 <ingi> I've also built the the 2.6.27-rc4 kernel which I've managed to put onto a /ext2-partition (in /boot/), that requires the root-fs to be on the uSD card as well on another partition and thats where I'm stuck.
Dec 26 14:07:39 <lindi-> sebbs: http://www.finseth.com/craft/ might be good read
Dec 26 14:08:27 <MMlosh> ingi: Qi?
Dec 26 14:08:33 <sebbs> lindi-: thank you
Dec 26 14:08:54 <ingi> Yes, I downloaded the qi and flashed the 'u-boot' in NAND...
Dec 26 14:09:12 * MMlosh has done that 15 minutes ago...
Dec 26 14:09:13 <ingi> U-Boot in NAND is (temporarily) gone :-)
Dec 26 14:09:50 <ingi> You need Qi when booting the 2.6.27x kernel (bigger than 2.0 Mb)...
Dec 26 14:10:08 <sebbs> lindi-: im not really a coder, i mostly edit configfiles, so emacs is kinda overkill, i only do scripting, and a little python when i need it.
Dec 26 14:10:51 <MMlosh> ingi: Andy has special kernel in Qi download ?directory / ?server
Dec 26 14:11:06 <Defiant-> sebbs: I hope you tried vim?
Dec 26 14:11:47 * MMlosh prefers to boot from NAND, so he'll probably use older "FAT+etx2" method if possible....
Dec 26 14:12:30 <MMlosh> ingi: Any ideas, where shall I suggest using AUX button to switch between NAND and uSD?
Dec 26 14:14:13 <ingi> MMlosh: No idea, I use the AUX to choose whether to boot from NOR or NAND... Not holding the AUX before PWR button gives me Qi.
Dec 26 14:14:45 <ingi> MMlosh: but I admit that I'm still a bit lost ...
Dec 26 14:15:10 * MMlosh meant to use/not use AUX button after power button
Dec 26 14:15:59 <MMlosh> (This combination is used to get into NAND U-Boot menu, but Qi can't do that.... AUX after POWER "hotkey" is unused)
Dec 26 14:16:51 <raph_ael> sebbs: squid is horrible, but i've never been courageous enough to finish a mutt conf file
Dec 26 14:17:52 <sebbs> Defiant-: acctually nowadays vi is now linked to vim on my laptop
Dec 26 14:18:42 <sebbs> raph_ael: squid is acctually great, there are muttrc builder iirc, i did it onces and forgot about it, it does everything i need, if i need more i just add a line or modify another.
Dec 26 14:18:54 <Defiant-> sebbs: If you have some freetime you should the features vim has
Dec 26 14:21:33 <sebbs> right now i am trying to figure out which distro to invest my time into. i need a phone that works, and i would like to have my basic set of applciations that i use too.
Dec 26 14:23:14 <MMlosh> ingi: holding only POWER will use NAND
Dec 26 14:23:14 <MMlosh> holding AUX after POWER will use uSD..  (This was used for NAND U-Boot menu... Qi has no menu... this "hotkey" is unused.... At least I think so...;)
Dec 26 14:23:14 <MMlosh> Clear?
Dec 26 14:25:16 <ingi> MMlosh: Clear yes :-)
Dec 26 14:25:44 <ingi> MMlosh: but I'm still struggling to get the 'root-fs' onto the uSD card...
Dec 26 14:26:15 <MMlosh> I'm unable to build my own .jffs2 at all....
Dec 26 14:27:51 <ingi> MMlost: I'm building the 'fso-testing' stuff. Sometimes, after an 'make update' it doesn't build, but sometimes it does. I guess that's why they call it 'testing'...
Dec 26 14:45:12 <ingi> MMlosh: Ok, I've managed to write my .jffs2 onto the uSD card using the QT-instructions on the wiki from here (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_/_Qt_Extended_on_FreeRunner). That included loading some mtd*-modules, using dd and tar to copy stuff. Magical...
Dec 26 14:48:38 <lindi-> it is not magic :)
Dec 26 14:49:01 <MMlosh> but it looks like...
Dec 26 14:49:56 <MMlosh> 2 wiki pages (screen resolution 1024x768) about something like "just mount it and copy files" are something like magic
Dec 26 14:51:01 <ingi> David Copperfield makes things less magical than the description on the wiki page...
Dec 26 14:52:31 <sebbs> is there a distro that uses opkg and apt ?
Dec 26 14:52:49 <sebbs> rather allowes the use of both (has both compiled)
Dec 26 14:52:49 <leia_20> :( im trying to reflash my neo, i have downloaded the jffs kernel ... and the dfu-util (in windows xp sorry) all in f:\om\ , I boot my neo in NOR menu, plug the usb and ejecute: dfu-util.exe -a kernel -R -D f:\om
Dec 26 14:53:13 <sebbs> f:?
Dec 26 14:53:15 <sebbs> oh windows
Dec 26 14:54:19 <ingi> leia_20: you need to specifiy the 'uImage...*.bin' filename i.e. 'f:\om\uImage-om-gta02.bin'
Dec 26 14:54:45 <leia_20> but it say don't have permission
Dec 26 14:54:45 <leia_20> ????
Dec 26 14:54:45 <leia_20> f:\om: Permission denied
Dec 26 14:54:46 <leia_20> appears other messages that, aparently works
Dec 26 14:54:52 <leia_20> please can someone guide me to flash my neo to 2008.12 from a winXP?
Dec 26 14:54:58 <leia_20> yep
Dec 26 14:55:00 <leia_20> ... sorry
Dec 26 14:55:04 <leia_20> ... oops
Dec 26 14:55:06 <leia_20> :)
Dec 26 14:55:23 <leia_20> works!!
Dec 26 14:56:36 <sebbs> great leia_20 ^^
Dec 26 15:05:01 <jonsmith1982> how can i get kmail to thread the mailing list properly?
Dec 26 15:07:27 <sebbs> jonsmith1982: think you should direct your question to #kde
Dec 26 15:08:53 <MMlosh> sebbs: There is no component "Qi" on the Trac.. Is that a defect? Or do you know who shall I ask?
Dec 26 15:10:12 <Dave> leia_20, did you get it to work?
Dec 26 15:10:21 <leia_20> yep
Dec 26 15:10:29 <leia_20> flashing the filesistem
Dec 26 15:10:38 <leia_20> veeeeeery slow
Dec 26 15:11:07 <sebbs> MMlosh: what is "qi"?
Dec 26 15:11:24 <sebbs> other then the life force of the world according to eastern philosophy
Dec 26 15:11:27 <MMlosh> bootloader.. faster alternative to U-Boot without menu
Dec 26 15:11:34 <sebbs> its named qi?
Dec 26 15:11:42 <Dave> Yep
Dec 26 15:11:49 <MMlosh> not qi.. "Qi"  (:
Dec 26 15:11:52 <Dave> that's chi :P
Dec 26 15:12:03 <sebbs> Dave: depends on what languge you are speaking.
Dec 26 15:12:06 <sebbs> chi is chinese
Dec 26 15:12:09 <sebbs> iirc
Dec 26 15:12:11 <Dave> right
Dec 26 15:12:26 <Dave> in any case, it's an alternative bootloader to uboot ;p
Dec 26 15:12:28 <sebbs> anyway to awnser your question MMlosh i dont know where you would find it.
Dec 26 15:12:31 <Mortak> hoes anyone know how to re-request pidgin icq contacts?
Dec 26 15:12:34 <sebbs> ive only used uboot
Dec 26 15:12:46 <Mortak> "does"
Dec 26 15:12:51 <sebbs> Mortak: #pidgin
Dec 26 15:13:17 <MMlosh> Mortak: delete ~/.purple/blist.xml?
Dec 26 15:13:26 <Mortak> sebbs: :) 
Dec 26 15:13:28 <MMlosh> but #pidgin will be better...
Dec 26 15:13:47 <Mortak> thx, ill ask them :)
Dec 26 15:24:06 <kW> Hello, how can I compile Om2008.12 myself?
Dec 26 15:36:25 <sebbs> anyone running gentoo on their openmoko?
Dec 26 15:38:05 <ingi> kW: you start by reading the wiki
Dec 26 15:39:18 <kW> ingi: Well, I've doing this for days, and I'm lost in a forest of outdated information
Dec 26 15:39:55 <ingi> kW: so I'm I, are you using the MokoMakefile ?
Dec 26 15:40:12 <kW> ingi: I've successfully built an "openmoko-devel-image"
Dec 26 15:40:20 <kW> yes
Dec 26 15:40:37 <kW> however, what I've built seems to be outdated as well
Dec 26 15:40:44 <ingi> kW: I think the 2008.12 is the stable one...
Dec 26 15:40:58 <ingi> i.e. openmoko-stable-image...
Dec 26 15:41:29 <ingi> ingi: I'm building the FSO so I'm not so updated on the Om2008.n...
Dec 26 15:41:43 <kW> ingi: yes, but when I do "git log | head -n 3" within the "openembedded/" directory, I get
Dec 26 15:41:50 <kW> commit ad2420b30675df53e525ca8c835206c1449018f2
Dec 26 15:41:51 <kW> Author: Holger Freyther <ich@tamarin.(none)>
Dec 26 15:41:53 <kW> Date:   Wed Nov 12 04:24:05 2008 +0100
Dec 26 15:43:12 <kW> so my tree|branch is obviously older than Om2008.12
Dec 26 15:44:13 <ingi> kW: maybe you have to do like 'git checkout origin/stable' to get the latest stable commits..., I dont know.
Dec 26 15:45:11 <ingi> kW: this is what I get:
Dec 26 15:45:11 <ingi> ingi@cosmos:~/moko/openembedded$ git log | head -n 3
Dec 26 15:45:11 <ingi> commit 4ba3f2b8fbe18eca0816ae69c840536e91e7b1a4
Dec 26 15:45:11 <ingi> Author: Koen Kooi <koen@openembedded.org>
Dec 26 15:45:11 <ingi> Date:   Wed Dec 24 12:34:58 2008 +0100
Dec 26 15:45:31 <kW> that looks good :-)
Dec 26 15:46:07 <kW> but you are not on the branch "org.openmoko.asu.stable" I suppose?
Dec 26 15:46:29 <ingi> kW: I'm using the '$make update' command, underneath is the 'git'-commands to get the latest/greatest stuff.
Dec 26 15:52:35 <ingi> kW: I cant figure out what git-repository is being used, the Makefiles are so _generic_ that nothing is explicitly stated...
Dec 26 15:52:42 <kW> hehe
Dec 26 15:53:14 <kW> I think I'm on "historic/org.openmoko.asu.stable" instead of "org.openmoko.asu.stable"
Dec 26 15:53:46 <kW> However, my MokoMakefile calls it "origin/org.openmoko.asu.stable" instead of "historic/org.openmoko.asu.stable"
Dec 26 15:54:11 <ingi> kW: I'm not able to laugh at it anymore..., if I would the guys with the white shirt would come to get me
Dec 26 15:54:49 <ingi> kW: Yes, 'Wed Nov 12 04:24:05 2008 +0100' is ages ago...
Dec 26 15:55:36 <elserpiente> hi
Dec 26 15:56:03 <kW> For me, it looks like the MokoMakefile itself is outdated
Dec 26 15:56:35 <ingi> kW: should you not do like '$ make update-makefile' or something ?
Dec 26 15:57:18 <kW> Well, yes, but the resulting makefile is the same (apparently outdate) one
Dec 26 15:57:52 <kW> for example, I can read "git checkout -b ${OM_GIT_BRANCH} --track origin/${OM_GIT_BRANCH}" in the Makefile (for target "setup-openembedded")
Dec 26 16:01:41 <kW> I've uncommented "OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.dev" in the Makefile now, now I'm on the developer branch
Dec 26 16:02:39 <ingi> kW: And still you cant get any updates newer than nov 12th ?
Dec 26 16:02:54 <ingi> kW: have you asked in '#openmoko-cdevel' ?
Dec 26 16:03:14 <ingi> kW: I'f _they_ dont know, we're in the dark...
Dec 26 16:03:19 <mwester> If  you want to build 2008.12, then you need to post to the devel mailing list to get the latest information on what branches to use -- and you may also need to get info for other variables as well, perhaps.
Dec 26 16:03:40 <mwester> Openmoko has been busy merging stuff back into openemebedded but it's not done or buildable.
Dec 26 16:04:16 <kW> ingi: no, now I have "Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:04:30 +0000" as the last commit :-)
Dec 26 16:04:25 <mwester> The Makefile cannot keep up with what openmoko does, because openmoko does not use the makefile -- they are vehemently opposed to the use of anything except the (arcane) config files and direct use of bitbake.
Dec 26 16:05:01 <mwester> So to find the correct configuration (branch and repo to use) you *MUST* contact openmoko, and the -devel mailing list is your only hope for that information.
Dec 26 16:05:03 <kW> mwester: I see, so the MokoMakefile is just an idea of someone else who cannot keep up with tracking the required changes?
Dec 26 16:06:04 <mwester> MokoMakefile is a community contribution, it has been hampered by the fact that openmoko does not make any effort whatsoever to keep it up to date, but even worse openmoko makes no effort to communicate any changes they make so the community.
Dec 26 16:06:05 <mwester> IMO
Dec 26 16:06:51 <mwester> MokoMakefile keeps up with FSO, SHR, and other projects very well, where those developers are not so opposed to the use of a Makefile wrapper around bitbake.
Dec 26 16:08:06 <mwester> Frankly, my opinion is that openmoko, even without the Makefile, is very difficult to duplicate -- there have only been a few cases where I have successfully gotten a build that is the same as an openmoko release.  And I know OE quite well.
Dec 26 16:09:07 <ingi> wow !
Dec 26 16:10:39 <elserpiente> what good place for some custome init script in SHR?
Dec 26 16:11:12 <mwester> What's wrong with /etc/init.d/<scripname> with the appropriate sym link in /etc/rc5.d ?
Dec 26 16:14:07 <elserpiente> thanks man L)
Dec 26 16:15:15 <ingi> mwester: I'm trying to build an uImage with 2.6.2[78]-xxx-kernel using the linux-openmoko-devel.bb, and a matching 'rootfs.jffs2" using the FSO-Makefile. But I'm not able to get a matching 'rootfs.jffs2', do you have any hints for me were to look ?
Dec 26 16:15:38 <mwester> ingi:  can't be done.
Dec 26 16:15:38 <ingi> mwester: answering 'No idea' is fine :-)
Dec 26 16:15:51 <ingi> darn it...
Dec 26 16:16:25 <mwester> ingi:  There are no openembedded recipes that will build the new kernel at present; you will have to set up your own copy of the Om kernel git repo and build your own kernel.
Dec 26 16:17:06 <mwester> As soon as the newer kernel stabilizes a bit, that should change.
Dec 26 16:17:50 <kW> mwester: "there have only been a few cases where I have successfully gotten a build" in the light of an open source community, that should be fixed...
Dec 26 16:17:52 <mwester> But the last I heard (as of a couple of days ago) was that the linix-openmoko-devel.bb recipe was not building a working kernel; I did not check any further to see why that might be.
Dec 26 16:18:18 <kW> how else can I start fixing small bugs and implementing small features?
Dec 26 16:18:25 <ingi> Ok thank you :-)
Dec 26 16:18:25 <ingi> I've been building using the 'linux-openmoko-devel.bb' and I get a '-rw-r--r-- 1 ingi ingi  2537784 Dec 26 16:27 uImage-2.6.27-oe3+gitr75e0b08ee55b32b996d491809ce60b63287dadf5-r0-om-gta02.bin' which I flash but I'm unable to boot from (even using Qi and /boot/uImage-GTA02.bin on sd-card (ext2)).
Dec 26 16:18:33 <mwester> kW:  Yes!!   It has been a constant source of frustration, and it seems that the build peope at Om have not really been too concerned about that.
Dec 26 16:19:20 <mwester> In particular, it has been noted very specifically to Om's management , and on multiple occasions by the MokoMakefile author himself.
Dec 26 16:20:39 <mwester> ingi:  As far as I know, the folks successfully using the 2.6.27+ kernel are all building it directly from the Om git repo.   You'll also have more direct control over what patches and defconfig gets used that way.
Dec 26 16:21:33 <kW> Well... it looks like Om is threatening their own business model, because they depend on the software which is running on their hardware, else there wouldn't be a mass market like for the iPhone or for the HTC G1
Dec 26 16:21:34 <mwester> It's really pretty easy -- if you have the Om build you just need to setup the build script in the Om kernel repo to point to the cross-compiler that was built by bitbake.
Dec 26 16:22:15 <mwester> kW:  Om is trying to fix that -- right now they are pushing all their changes into the OE repo and essentially they are "undoing" their fork.
Dec 26 16:22:33 <mwester> kW:  As soon as that is done, this problem will cease to be.
Dec 26 16:22:40 <kW> I see
Dec 26 16:22:44 <kW> that's fine :-)
Dec 26 16:22:50 <mwester> kW:  however, it's a moot point in many ways, as 2008.x is dead anyway.
Dec 26 16:22:59 <kW> mwester: so what is "hot"?
Dec 26 16:23:22 <mwester> According to the official news, FSO is what has Om's support right now.
Dec 26 16:23:42 <mwester> On top of FSO (which is a framework), the SHR distro is the leader right now.
Dec 26 16:24:00 <ingi> Right now I only see the jungle, when I can navigate in the jungle and start to see the trees, things will be easier...
Dec 26 16:24:18 <kW> mwester: is FSO usable to the point that I can initiate and receive calls and SMS messages?
Dec 26 16:24:22 <mwester> But if you want a phone, and only a phone, then it's Qt Extended.   And if the Androids get their act together, it'll be Android competing with Qt Extended.
Dec 26 16:24:39 <mwester> kW:  FSO/SHR is getting very close.
Dec 26 16:25:19 <kW> mwester: how close? is it currently possible? ;-)
Dec 26 16:25:44 <kW> (I'm using the freerunner as my main phone "in production" in a "eat your own dogfood" sense)
Dec 26 16:26:56 <mwester> kW:  phone calls and SMSs work with FSO/SHR, but it is lacking some features (PIM, for example).  If you want to use your phone as a daily phone, then 2008.12 or Qt Extended might be your best bet.  Just be aware that if you intend to develop for the device, don't spend a lot of time on anything specific to 2008.12 as it will not be continued.
Dec 26 16:28:09 <kW> mwester: that's good news :-) (PIM is not really the problem, because I want to build a new PIM framework anyway)
Dec 26 16:28:29 <leia_20> hey! i have finish flashing to 2008.12, it boot and now ask me for the sim pin, but ... it only let me write letters, i need numbers!!! how i change the keyboard?
Dec 26 16:28:44 <mwester> :) If you wish to contribute that sort of code, then the FSO/SHR folks might be very interested.
Dec 26 16:28:56 <mwester> leia_20:  see topic!
Dec 26 16:29:22 <leia_20> XD
Dec 26 16:29:48 <ingi> leia_20: drag your finger from botton and upward (or from top of keyboard and downward) to switch between keyboards... (and yes see topic!)
Dec 26 16:30:31 <leia_20> nice, but ... where is the delete?
Dec 26 16:31:10 <ingi> leia_20: move your index-finger from right->left (on the keyboard (and see topic!));
Dec 26 16:31:18 <leia_20> jejeje
Dec 26 16:31:25 <leia_20> thank's!
Dec 26 16:38:32 <mwester> Not too intuitive, but it works...
Dec 26 16:39:35 <leia_20> ok okok works! now i want to connect the wifi ... but i only see the bluetooth option, where is my wifi?
Dec 26 16:39:56 <elserpiente> guys, how change default locale under X?
Dec 26 16:46:25 <leia_20> i don't understand ... how i turn on the wifi? or how i connect from usb? what's the ip? 2008.12
Dec 26 16:48:05 <feitingen> leia_20: if you just have flashed it, you should reboot it and the ip address should be 192.168.0.202
Dec 26 16:48:31 <leia_20> ... don't connect ...
Dec 26 16:49:24 <feitingen> wifi seems to be powered on by default, i just flashed it myself
Dec 26 16:49:40 <feitingen> it will not connect until it was booted and then rebooted
Dec 26 16:52:22 <feitingen> leia_20: i connect to the phone with ssh
Dec 26 16:53:07 <feitingen> i add a personal user to the phone, sets passwords for root and the user, and opens ssh via wlan
Dec 26 16:58:10 <leia_20> ok ok
Dec 26 16:58:15 <leia_20> i see ...
Dec 26 16:58:19 <leia_20> umm ...
Dec 26 16:59:16 <elserpiente> guys, how change default locale under X?
Dec 26 17:06:42 <ingi> kW: have you read this page: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=openmoko.git;a=summary ?
Dec 26 17:08:18 <feitingen> ... and there i managed to break ssh on the openmoko, 2 hours after a reflash
Dec 26 17:20:42 <elserpiente> hmm.....
Dec 26 17:33:42 <leia_20> me again! how i turn off the recomendations when writing?
Dec 26 17:35:28 <leia_20> and ... how turn off the wifi?
Dec 26 17:38:56 <leia_20> the keyboard sucks!
Dec 26 17:42:38 <leia_20> ¬¬ i'm trying to install a package from command line, and say me that Could not obtain administrative lock
Dec 26 17:43:00 <leia_20> why? im root
Dec 26 17:43:34 <feitingen> leia_20: that is a bug with the install thing, it will lock something even when it is killed
Dec 26 17:43:55 <Digital_Pioneer> FR can use SDHC, no problem right?
Dec 26 17:44:01 <leia_20> O_O
Dec 26 17:44:17 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 26 17:44:31 <leia_20> ... pff this interface ... pfff
Dec 26 17:44:52 <Digital_Pioneer> OK. Was reading reviews on an 8GB MicroSD SDHC, and the guy said to be sure you can use HC. :P
Dec 26 17:45:05 <leia_20> how i can write without the recomendations?
Dec 26 17:45:32 <feitingen> Digital_Pioneer: there may be some problems, i havent tried, but i have heard of problems
Dec 26 17:46:00 <Digital_Pioneer> (Looks like a good deal, if anyone's interested... 8GB Kingston MicroSD w/ 2 adaptors; $15.50)
Dec 26 17:46:20 <Digital_Pioneer> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134821 Free shipping too.
Dec 26 17:46:36 <SpeedEvil> about par.
Dec 26 17:46:47 <feitingen> Digital_Pioneer: to the uk?
Dec 26 17:46:51 <doc|work> yeah, not really special
Dec 26 17:47:06 <SpeedEvil> I was looking at flash recently, and pretty much came up with a price of 1.20 gbp ($2?/GB)
Dec 26 17:47:09 <Digital_Pioneer> feitingen: Ehhh, probably not. :P
Dec 26 17:47:26 <SpeedEvil> pretty constant across USB drives, or SD, or microSD
Dec 26 17:47:35 <SpeedEvil> the exception being 16G microSD, which is somewhat more
Dec 26 17:48:21 <SpeedEvil> (I was updating the 'SD' article on wikipedia)
Dec 26 17:48:36 <SpeedEvil> I hadn't realised quite how much SD had taken over.
Dec 26 17:48:41 <leia_20> guys you really use the 2008.12? i can't do anything. I can't change the sounds theme, there is not keyboard options, can't install packages from command line, I can't turn off wifi ...
Dec 26 17:48:46 <SpeedEvil> It's hard to get other flash memory generally. 
Dec 26 17:48:55 <SpeedEvil> memory stick and xd are really struggling.
Dec 26 17:49:31 <ingi> leia_20: Try the SHR instead.
Dec 26 17:49:34 <SpeedEvil> leia_20: I think 2008.12 is very much a wok in protess
Dec 26 17:49:40 <SpeedEvil> work in process
Dec 26 17:49:51 <leia_20> shr?
Dec 26 17:50:09 <rooly> shur, use shr
Dec 26 17:50:28 <Digital_Pioneer> leia_20: Stable Hybrid Release. I use it, it's pretty decent.
Dec 26 17:50:34 <leia_20> ok
Dec 26 17:50:35 <admiral0> leia_20 try shr-unstable. The telephony part worked ffor me, and it's better than the testing
Dec 26 17:50:45 <admiral0> *for
Dec 26 17:50:55 <leia_20> ok, thank's ... searching
Dec 26 17:51:10 <ingi> leia_20: read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release
Dec 26 17:51:56 <leia_20> i like the screenshots! it seems to be nice
Dec 26 17:53:48 <leia_20> i can't find the instructions to install the SHR ...
Dec 26 17:54:30 <leia_20> aaam
Dec 26 17:54:30 <leia_20> ok
Dec 26 17:54:35 <admiral0> Ainulindale: recommend leia_20 shr ultra uber lite ;)
Dec 26 17:54:37 <leia_20> the 2008.9 ???
Dec 26 17:55:18 <leia_20> ... i must to go (shit) see you tomorrow!
Dec 26 17:56:35 <Digital_Pioneer> Wow, I guess he has some pretty heavy duty constipation...
Dec 26 17:57:04 <viq> rather diarrhea :P
Dec 26 17:58:28 <admiral0> lol
Dec 26 18:09:42 <rooly> okay, this is f'ing bullshit
Dec 26 18:10:02 <feitingen> what is?
Dec 26 18:11:46 <rooly> http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/26/apple-files-patent-for-gesture-based-text-editing/#comments
Dec 26 18:11:51 <rooly> woops
Dec 26 18:11:56 <rooly> http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/26/apple-files-patent-for-gesture-based-text-editing/
Dec 26 18:14:34 <rooly> how is that possibly different than qtopia or openmoko or android, except its on a different type of touchscreen
Dec 26 18:16:45 <SpeedEvil> First thing we do, is to kill all the lawyers.
Dec 26 18:17:13 <rooly> but seriously. how can they even attempt that?
Dec 26 18:17:31 <rooly> i've been doing that on my phone for quite a while now
Dec 26 18:17:32 <doc|work> rooly: because the patent office has legislators behind it
Dec 26 18:18:26 <SpeedEvil> The patent office is _fucked_
Dec 26 18:18:36 <SpeedEvil> it's not adequately funded.
Dec 26 18:18:53 <SpeedEvil> As it's assumed that any errors can be rectified by the courts.
Dec 26 18:19:19 <SpeedEvil> So they employ gerbils to do patent examination.
Dec 26 18:20:41 <rooly> just makes me mad is all
Dec 26 18:23:53 <Dave> nordmann!
Dec 26 18:26:26 <feitingen> Dave: yes
Dec 26 18:39:49 <kW> ingi: yes
Dec 26 18:46:10 <ingi> kW: So I guess you know how to retrieve the current source instead of 'historic' source of ASU..., I'm not using ASU, just relating to your initial question.
Dec 26 18:46:31 <kW> ingi: yes, I'm using the dev source right now...
Dec 26 18:46:50 <kW> unfortunately, FSO fails to compile at "task 7 of 6565"
Dec 26 18:46:58 <ingi> kW: which is ?
Dec 26 18:47:58 <kW> fso-testing/openembedded/packages/shasum/shasum-native.bb, do_compile
Dec 26 18:48:11 <kW> with empty error log
Dec 26 18:48:12 <Dave> skjera?
Dec 26 18:48:43 * Dave swats leinir
Dec 26 18:48:50 <ingi> darn it ! No reported error above or anything ?
Dec 26 18:52:50 <ingi> Try the following:
Dec 26 18:52:51 <ingi> 1) cd fso-testing; . ./setup-env; cd ..
Dec 26 18:52:51 <ingi> 2) bb shasum-native -D -D
Dec 26 18:52:51 <ingi> Should give a little more info on what's happening...
Dec 26 18:53:18 <hiciu> kW: i got this too
Dec 26 18:54:32 <hiciu> . ./setup-env; bitbake shasum-native -D
Dec 26 18:54:58 <hiciu> (but I got this while compiling shr-unstable image)
Dec 26 19:00:14 <kW> ingi+hiciu: the info what is happening is just: "ccache gcc -isystem/some/path/fso-testing/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/include -O2 -isystem/some/path/fso-testing/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/include -o oe_sha256sum main.c sha256.c"
Dec 26 19:00:22 <kW> and that compile actually succeeds
Dec 26 19:00:35 <kW> (file "oe_sha256sum" is generated)
Dec 26 19:00:44 <hiciu> kW: try this:
Dec 26 19:00:57 <hiciu> bitbake -c devshell shasum-native; (wait ~30 sec for new xterm); source temp/run.do_compile*
Dec 26 19:02:31 <ingi> kW: the 'in  -o oe_sha256sum main.c' in the 'ccache' command is wrong, I hope it says '-o oe_sha256sum main.o' !
Dec 26 19:03:01 <ingi> The result of a compile command is almost never a .c file...
Dec 26 19:03:36 <ingi> and even less likely an optimized ditto (-O2)...
Dec 26 19:03:36 <kW> well, it says "main.c" and not "main.o"
Dec 26 19:04:03 <mwester> kW:  Add the following line to your local.conf file:
Dec 26 19:04:03 <ingi> Ah, my wrong, sorry...
Dec 26 19:04:08 <mwester> CCACHE = ""
Dec 26 19:04:20 <ingi> It says '-o oe_sha256sum' and then main.c, sorry about it...
Dec 26 19:04:25 <mwester> Known problem; nobody has taken the trouble to fix it yet.
Dec 26 19:04:32 <kW> hiciu: the "source temp/run.do_compile*" succeeded
Dec 26 19:04:40 <TAsn> how many mokos are there? ;]
Dec 26 19:04:41 <mwester> (doesn't happen on debian, apparently, which is the preferred distro for the core devs for OE)
Dec 26 19:04:51 <kW> mwester: I see
Dec 26 19:05:05 <mwester> What linux do you run?
Dec 26 19:05:45 <TAsn> kW, although it's not really the desired outcome, removing ccache from the local.conf (iirc it was from there) was what solved the same issue for me.
Dec 26 19:06:12 <kW> mwester: OpenSUSE 11.1
Dec 26 19:06:39 <mwester> Ok, so now it happens on almost everything *except* debian.
Dec 26 19:07:08 <mwester> Sooner or later somebody will track it down.  But not me, since I beleive ccache to be an incredible evil in the first place ;)
Dec 26 19:08:04 <hiciu> mwester: in my case (Archlinux) 'ccache' failed because I haven't set '$HOME' variable in build environment
Dec 26 19:09:43 <hiciu> I added 'export HOME = "/home/hiciu"' to openembedded/conf/bitbake.conf and now it works
Dec 26 19:10:09 <TAsn> hiciu, In my case (arhclinux) I didn't know that could solve it so I just disabled ccache like mwester just suggested to kw.
Dec 26 19:11:33 <mwester> hiciu:  I would have thought that $HOME should be preserved by bitbake; that's rather draconian of it!
Dec 26 19:11:51 <mwester> hiciu:  but that's a good catch.
Dec 26 19:11:58 <kW> mwester+TAsn+hiciu: CCACHE = "" works :-)
Dec 26 19:12:44 <TAsn> kW, ;]
Dec 26 19:13:18 <mwester> I think there is a way to set a per-OE-TMPDIR ccache, which would remove my overall objections to ccache to a large degree -- that would ensure that an OE build wouldn't flush (or erroneously reuse) any content from some other OE build, or even a local non-OE compilation.
Dec 26 19:15:02 <StealthCP> has anyone tested the running of 2008.12 from SD?
Dec 26 19:15:30 <StealthCP> I've decided to use Qt Extended 4.4.x on the flash of my phone, in order for it to be usable for that purpose :)
Dec 26 19:15:45 <StealthCP> yet I wish to mess around with, and code applications for, OE
Dec 26 19:15:59 <StealthCP> though I've heard there were some issues with running from SD?
Dec 26 19:16:14 * rooly slaps StealthCP for the qte usage
Dec 26 19:16:46 <rooly> you don't have bluetooth, sms's clone, and qte crashes all the time for no particular reason
Dec 26 19:16:52 <StealthCP> I apologize, but I'm not such an open-source fanatic that I blatantly refuse to use proprietary software, even if it works
Dec 26 19:16:55 <rooly> use qt 4.3.2
Dec 26 19:17:05 <StealthCP> are you sure?
Dec 26 19:17:10 <rooly> yes
Dec 26 19:17:11 <StealthCP> hmm, 
Dec 26 19:17:15 <StealthCP> speak of the devil
Dec 26 19:17:18 <StealthCP> it's just crashed
Dec 26 19:17:24 <rooly> 4.3.2 or qte
Dec 26 19:17:26 <StealthCP> 0_o
Dec 26 19:17:29 <StealthCP> qte
Dec 26 19:17:32 <rooly> see?
Dec 26 19:17:39 <StealthCP> no you just said it would crash
Dec 26 19:17:42 <StealthCP> and it did
Dec 26 19:17:46 <rooly> toldya
Dec 26 19:17:50 <StealthCP> :P
Dec 26 19:17:57 <rooly> crap tastic...
Dec 26 19:17:57 <StealthCP> well, what do I lose using Qt 4.3.2?
Dec 26 19:18:13 <rooly> a few minor UI things
Dec 26 19:18:23 <StealthCP> nothing sinister then?
Dec 26 19:18:35 <rooly> erm, no continuous sliding in menus
Dec 26 19:18:45 <rooly> no inertia i mean
Dec 26 19:19:00 <rooly> and the contacts browser doesn't have the side letter thingy
Dec 26 19:19:10 <rooly> and internet doesn't exactly work
Dec 26 19:19:30 <rooly> all of which can be ignored if your just using it as a phone/PIM manager
Dec 26 19:19:39 <StealthCP> :(
Dec 26 19:20:04 <StealthCP> it's saddening that there's nothing solid for this thing
Dec 26 19:20:10 <rooly> i agree
Dec 26 19:20:16 <rooly> 4.3.3 maybe then
Dec 26 19:20:29 <rooly> but qte just sucks terribly right now
Dec 26 19:21:04 <StealthCP> it faired better than FDOM, which was my first flash of the device, I didn't quite get well, anything
Dec 26 19:21:13 <rooly> lol
Dec 26 19:21:20 <rooly> yeah, fdom is worse
Dec 26 19:21:31 <rooly> mostly due to the gestures app
Dec 26 19:22:08 <StealthCP> I tried playing pingus, I might as well have just set the phone under my leg 
Dec 26 19:22:36 <StealthCP> well perhaps you could help me with choices then
Dec 26 19:22:42 <rooly> sure
Dec 26 19:22:51 <rooly> shr is stable and wakes up on alarms, from what i hear
Dec 26 19:22:58 <rooly> however i haven't gotten around to trying it
Dec 26 19:23:09 <rooly> fdom is pretty much it's namesake: fat and dirty
Dec 26 19:23:12 <threedee> anyone doing a game they need help with
Dec 26 19:23:35 <StealthCP> I want to primarily, for now, use it as a phone, my 'real' phone died this morning, but I'd happily sacrifice a bit of stability for a few nice extras like wifi and internet working
Dec 26 19:23:36 <rooly> qt is stable and its telephony is already relied on by om
Dec 26 19:24:00 <StealthCP> but at the same time I'd like to stick on SD probably the latest om image, to mess aorund with and write a few python apps for
Dec 26 19:24:04 <rooly> qte is horribly unstable for no good reason
Dec 26 19:24:25 <rooly> android isn't so bad if your just messing around
Dec 26 19:24:34 <StealthCP> hehe
Dec 26 19:24:36 <rooly> so either shr or qt is your choice
Dec 26 19:24:55 <StealthCP> shr, is based on 2007.2 correct?
Dec 26 19:25:14 <rooly> no
Dec 26 19:25:29 <rooly> shr is a frontend for fso
Dec 26 19:25:48 <rooly> if you want just a pure telephony suite, then fso would probably work
Dec 26 19:26:34 <StealthCP> what are the real differences between the two?
Dec 26 19:26:48 <doc|work> you mean, I can use the freerunner as a phone?
Dec 26 19:26:52 <doc|work> I don't believe you!
Dec 26 19:27:08 * doc|work sighs as he pokes at his crappy motorola :(
Dec 26 19:27:37 <rooly> doc|work: i use mine as my primary phone
Dec 26 19:27:40 <StealthCP> well I had this discussion at the pub on Christmas Eve with one of my mates who now is in his gap year at Uni, working for Ericsson in Dublin
Dec 26 19:27:41 <rooly> been doing so for months
Dec 26 19:27:55 <StealthCP> The Freerunner, should, primarily, first and foremost
Dec 26 19:28:10 <StealthCP> work perfectly and brilliantly as a phone before anything else is concentrated on
Dec 26 19:28:16 <StealthCP> in his opinion
Dec 26 19:28:19 <doc|work> StealthCP: aye
Dec 26 19:28:25 <rooly> i disagree
Dec 26 19:28:33 <rooly> this is NOT a phone
Dec 26 19:28:39 <ColdFyre> i use 2008.12/FR as my primary phone
Dec 26 19:28:44 <rooly> its a mini-arm computer with a gsm modem
Dec 26 19:28:48 <StealthCP> I can understand that it isn't a .. well rooly said it
Dec 26 19:29:00 <doc|work> rooly: it's sold as a phone
Dec 26 19:29:02 <StealthCP> yes I would ideally have two phones in my pocket
Dec 26 19:29:12 <doc|work> I bought it as a phone
Dec 26 19:29:13 <StealthCP> perhaps the Freerunner in my bag tbh
Dec 26 19:29:24 <doc|work> now I want it to do much more, but it's meant to be the 'open phone'
Dec 26 19:29:24 <rooly> i realize that, doc|work.
Dec 26 19:29:45 <doc|work> and lets be realistic, it's too slow for much more :/
Dec 26 19:29:57 <rooly> nah, 400mhz can get you quite alot
Dec 26 19:30:05 <StealthCP> but right now I need to use it as my primary phone, and from the 3 weeks I got using and developing for my friend's iPhone, I have to say I'm not as excited to receive my Freerunner back for Christmas
Dec 26 19:31:36 <doc|work> yeah, I've played with an iphone and after doing that it's kind of disappointing :/
Dec 26 19:31:41 <doc|work> (the fr)
Dec 26 19:31:44 <rooly> StealthCP: the key to using it is to stop expecting it to be so much better than everything else
Dec 26 19:31:46 <doc|work> you can actually use it :/
Dec 26 19:31:53 <StealthCP> I'm not expecting that :P
Dec 26 19:31:57 <doc|work> rooly: so much? how about a little? :/
Dec 26 19:32:02 <rooly> its a freed phone
Dec 26 19:32:15 <rooly> it means you can do with it what you want within the limitations of the hardware
Dec 26 19:32:20 <doc|work> except for the phone bit :)
Dec 26 19:32:21 <rooly> aka, you have no software limitations
Dec 26 19:32:27 <StealthCP> indeed
Dec 26 19:32:34 <rooly> no, it still has the ability to work perfectly as a phone
Dec 26 19:32:52 <StealthCP> question: Is there no acceleration of graphics on the Freerunner yet? (haven't checked)
Dec 26 19:32:56 <doc|work> for varying values of 'perfectly'? what's the lifetime now? :/
Dec 26 19:32:57 <rooly> no
Dec 26 19:33:06 <StealthCP> the reason being?
Dec 26 19:33:17 <rooly> doc|work: the hardware has the ability. the current software stacks do not
Dec 26 19:33:35 <rooly> you bought the hardware. everything else about it is free. completely
Dec 26 19:33:45 <doc|work> right, and until they do it's not really fair to say it works perfectly, sadly :(
Dec 26 19:33:45 <rooly> StealthCP: because the glamo chip that's on it sucks
Dec 26 19:34:14 <rooly> doc|work: nobody says the software works perfectly.
Dec 26 19:34:42 <rooly> but aside from a few minor glitches, the hardware is quite up to the task
Dec 26 19:34:57 <doc|work> <rooly> no, it still has the ability to work perfectly as a phone
Dec 26 19:34:57 <doc|work> :)
Dec 26 19:35:14 <doc|work> unless I plug in a sim and try to use it as such? :)
Dec 26 19:35:16 <rooly> and i stand by that statement
Dec 26 19:35:34 <rooly> because the freerunner HAS THE ABILITY to work perfectly as a phone
Dec 26 19:35:39 <rooly> the potential is there
Dec 26 19:36:06 <doc|work> by that thinking I have the ability to be a world class footballer (given I have two legs) yet here I am :)
Dec 26 19:36:18 * doc|work not able to kick a ball in a straight line
Dec 26 19:37:00 <rooly> actually, by that thinking, you are right
Dec 26 19:37:20 <rooly> because with a little work and effort, you can cause yourself to be a world class footballer
Dec 26 19:37:34 <doc|work> highly unlikely :)
Dec 26 19:37:50 <StealthCP> if the chances of doc playing for England are the same as the Freerunner becoming a usable and intuitive phone, I'm stuffing myself
Dec 26 19:37:57 <rooly> lol
Dec 26 19:38:17 <rooly> nah, thats not the metaphore
Dec 26 19:38:49 <doc|work> StealthCP: sell your phone, I'm Irish and have no English parents/grandparents
Dec 26 19:38:54 <doc|work> :)
Dec 26 19:39:09 <StealthCP> I'm northern Irish, and the Freerunner I purchased from the US doesn't work here
Dec 26 19:39:40 <doc|work> erk
Dec 26 19:39:59 <doc|work> it should work on the second band, shouldn't it?
Dec 26 19:40:03 <StealthCP> unless, of course, I start using my Orange sim card and ditch my O2 one
Dec 26 19:40:56 <StealthCP> O2 having few or little 1800Mhz points in active use
Dec 26 19:40:58 <Dave> moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Dec 26 19:41:02 <StealthCP> Orange solely using them
Dec 26 19:45:25 <rooly> that was kinda stupid StealthCP
Dec 26 19:45:41 <StealthCP> they were pverpriced here
Dec 26 19:45:47 <rooly> by how much?
Dec 26 19:45:49 <StealthCP> and no stock
Dec 26 19:45:55 <StealthCP> well, anyway
Dec 26 19:45:58 <StealthCP> let's ignore that
Dec 26 19:46:04 <StealthCP> am I really at a disadvantage?
Dec 26 19:46:11 <rooly> how so
Dec 26 19:46:14 <StealthCP> whenever I'm in the US more often than the rest of europe?
Dec 26 19:46:24 <rooly> welll....i guess not
Dec 26 19:46:32 <rooly> but isn't the FR tri-band anyway?
Dec 26 19:46:36 <doc|work> yeah
Dec 26 19:46:36 <StealthCP> yep
Dec 26 19:46:38 <rooly> 850/1800/1900
Dec 26 19:46:44 <doc|work> but yeah, just use orange
Dec 26 19:46:45 <rooly> or 900/1800/1900
Dec 26 19:46:47 <StealthCP> and Europe often uses 1800 as I've seen
Dec 26 19:46:48 <doc|work> problem solved
Dec 26 19:47:03 <StealthCP> UK, there's quite a bit of 900 use, but only on some networks
Dec 26 19:47:04 <rooly> so shouldn't that mean that your FR would work almost everywhere with gsm anyway?
Dec 26 19:47:18 <StealthCP> I've either T-Mobile or Orange to choose from for sole use of 1800Mhz transmitters
Dec 26 19:47:33 <StealthCP> in the UK
Dec 26 19:47:42 <rooly> thats pretty crappy
Dec 26 19:47:55 <StealthCP> how so?
Dec 26 19:47:58 <rooly> but if you spend more time in the US anyway, whatever i guess it doesn't matter
Dec 26 19:49:11 <rooly> anyway, qtopia 4.3.2 works almost perfectly as a phone
Dec 26 19:49:15 <StealthCP> ok
Dec 26 19:49:21 <StealthCP> but.. I'm going to flash SHR first
Dec 26 19:49:24 <StealthCP> to see what it's like
Dec 26 19:49:25 <rooly> there are minor annoyances having to do with in-call detection
Dec 26 19:49:46 <StealthCP> then if I'm not happy I'll change to 4.3.2
Dec 26 19:50:01 <rooly> and while you do that, i'm gonna go to office depot and pick up a few dvd-rw's
Dec 26 19:50:13 <rooly> cause i want to install windows and i can't seem to get the disc i have to work
Dec 26 19:50:41 <StealthCP> ok and...
Dec 26 19:50:53 <StealthCP> where does my music go for the Qtopia media player?
Dec 26 19:51:13 <StealthCP> if anything.. if I was able to use the Freerunner as a media player, even solely, I'd be very happy :)
Dec 26 19:51:18 <rooly> in (sdcard)/Documents/
Dec 26 19:51:23 <StealthCP> thanks
Dec 26 19:51:37 <rooly> 4.3.2 maintains mp3 playability
Dec 26 19:51:46 <StealthCP> 4.3.3 does not?
Dec 26 19:51:51 <rooly> it should
Dec 26 19:53:15 <rooly> bbl
Dec 26 19:53:16 <StealthCP> where can I find the 4.3.3 images (Sorry)
Dec 26 19:53:32 <StealthCP> I'm having to use Dillo here, it's such a pain
Dec 26 19:54:46 <StealthCP> nvm, managed to get them
Dec 26 19:57:41 <StealthCP> sucks when your freerunner has more ram than your PC P:
Dec 26 19:58:50 <rooly> lmao
Dec 26 19:58:58 <rooly> seriously?
Dec 26 19:59:00 <rooly> bbl
Dec 26 19:59:02 <rooly> what am i doing
Dec 26 19:59:09 <StealthCP> yeah
Dec 26 19:59:10 <StealthCP> 32MB
Dec 26 19:59:43 <viq> StealthCP: maybe you should just find a way to get keyboard and screen attached to your FR ;)
Dec 26 19:59:55 <StealthCP> and stick Debian on it or something :P
Dec 26 20:00:05 <StealthCP> yeah would make sense
Dec 26 20:00:07 <rooly> oh, i know!
Dec 26 20:00:13 <rooly> use one of those usb moniters
Dec 26 20:00:22 <rooly> and a bluetooth keyboard
Dec 26 20:00:29 <StealthCP> go get your discs
Dec 26 20:00:32 <StealthCP> please :P
Dec 26 20:00:43 <rooly> putting on pants and shoes
Dec 26 20:01:09 <rooly> leaving for real now
Dec 26 20:16:55 <Tig|> Dave,  merry xmas
Dec 26 20:24:03 <StealthCP> might be a silly question, but where's wifi in Qtopia 4.3.3?
Dec 26 20:24:21 <StealthCP> question I should be asking: is there any?
Dec 26 20:31:04 <thrashold> StealthCP: Hm, I'm not sure if Qtopia itself supports WiFi, but it should be possible to enable it manually. 
Dec 26 20:47:51 <rooly> qtopia does support wifi
Dec 26 20:48:27 <rooly> internet, new network interface, wlan
Dec 26 20:49:13 <StealthCP> thanks
Dec 26 20:49:26 <rooly> found it?
Dec 26 20:49:38 <StealthCP> no, was getting USB networking working there
Dec 26 20:49:41 <cjb> is there a page somewhere that documents how the android port is going?
Dec 26 20:49:41 <yoyo> hi
Dec 26 20:49:57 <rooly> nothing change recently, cjb
Dec 26 20:50:01 <rooly> *changed
Dec 26 20:50:15 <rooly> but just search the wiki for android, and you find something
Dec 26 20:54:11 <Dave> Tig :P
Dec 26 20:54:49 <Tig|> :)
Dec 26 20:54:56 <Tig|> sorry was lagged
Dec 26 20:55:26 <rooly> anyone know a decent gps mapping application for the FR?
Dec 26 20:55:35 <rooly> sorry
Dec 26 20:55:36 <StealthCP> next funky question is asking how I can sync my contacts, calender, in ANY way, be it with my computer or (most unlikely) my Google account? :P
Dec 26 20:55:36 <rooly> for qtopia
Dec 26 20:55:51 <Tm_T> rooly: there isn't, IIRC
Dec 26 20:55:51 <rooly> StealthCP: when you answer that question, please let me know
Dec 26 20:56:02 <rooly> Tm_T: i had read somewhere that there was one
Dec 26 20:56:05 <rooly> i even saw a screenshot
Dec 26 20:56:17 <Tm_T> rooly: one yes, but not decent in my scale
Dec 26 20:57:23 <yoyo> someone from poland?
Dec 26 20:57:32 <rooly> well, all i need is ability to download and save maps, and redisplay them correctly
Dec 26 20:58:28 <StealthCP> you know, Qtopia 4.3.3 is crashing quite often here too
Dec 26 20:58:38 <rooly> then go to 4.3.2
Dec 26 20:58:50 <StealthCP> um
Dec 26 20:58:57 <StealthCP> what IS the difference?
Dec 26 20:59:07 <rooly> under the hood
Dec 26 20:59:28 * StealthCP considers tertiary versions to be stable/bugfix updates
Dec 26 20:59:34 <rooly> usually
Dec 26 20:59:58 <Tm_T> why you are not using 4.4.2 ?
Dec 26 21:00:01 <rooly> but qt trolltech likes to implement new features
Dec 26 21:00:11 <rooly> because 4.4.2 crashes like it's nobody's business
Dec 26 21:01:11 <rooly> and its so very nice too...
Dec 26 21:01:16 <StealthCP> In all honesty, I couldn't even connect to my GSM network under 4.4.2
Dec 26 21:01:16 <rooly> it just crashes and clones sms
Dec 26 21:01:36 <StealthCP> this is, the first time, my FR has actually connected to a NETWORK
Dec 26 21:01:46 <rooly> using what, 4.3.x?
Dec 26 21:01:50 <StealthCP> 4.3.3
Dec 26 21:02:07 <StealthCP> T-Mobile sim card I'm using for testing, unregistered or at least, not 'activated by topping up'
Dec 26 21:02:07 <rooly> i only have 1 reproducable crash using 4.3.2
Dec 26 21:03:49 <rooly> and that's adding power management modifications to ring profiles
Dec 26 21:04:53 <rooly> applications seem to crash when doing a dns search for some reason on 4.3.2, but only if there is an active connection
Dec 26 21:05:03 <StealthCP> thought in all honesty I can't seem to find the dialer
Dec 26 21:05:55 <rooly> lol
Dec 26 21:05:57 <rooly> lmao
Dec 26 21:06:01 <rooly> on the homescreen
Dec 26 21:06:08 <rooly> that little phone looking icon
Dec 26 21:06:40 <Tig|> yoyo, what is wrong?
Dec 26 21:06:49 <StealthCP> no, it's not there
Dec 26 21:06:58 <rooly> wha?
Dec 26 21:07:07 <rooly> thats very strange
Dec 26 21:07:15 <StealthCP> contacts, calender, todo list, clock
Dec 26 21:07:18 <StealthCP> are the 4icons
Dec 26 21:07:21 <StealthCP> below that,
Dec 26 21:07:28 <StealthCP> "No appointments today"
Dec 26 21:07:34 <StealthCP> and below that, world map
Dec 26 21:07:54 <rooly> no, not in the menu
Dec 26 21:07:57 <rooly> on the home screen
Dec 26 21:08:12 <StealthCP> that is the home screen
Dec 26 21:08:30 <rooly> there should be 4 icons
Dec 26 21:08:31 <StealthCP> the menu has 4x4 icons
Dec 26 21:08:36 <StealthCP> mhm
Dec 26 21:08:41 <StealthCP> <StealthCP> contacts, calender, todo list, clock
Dec 26 21:08:41 <StealthCP> <StealthCP> are the 4icons
Dec 26 21:08:47 <rooly> a phone, a q, a star, a lock
Dec 26 21:08:53 <Tig|> Dave, I found my freerunner btw!   after a nokia batt jump start it has recovered.... if you will pardon the expression it is time for some gratuitous flashing action :P
Dec 26 21:09:10 <Dave> ;D
Dec 26 21:09:13 <Dave> don't worry
Dec 26 21:09:13 <rooly> lol
Dec 26 21:09:21 <rooly> so very odd
Dec 26 21:09:22 <Dave> I hear several people here are into that sort of thing ;)
Dec 26 21:09:25 * Dave :P
Dec 26 21:09:36 <rooly> StealthCP: i'll look into that
Dec 26 21:09:42 <StealthCP> ok, lol
Dec 26 21:09:48 <StealthCP> it was the skin
Dec 26 21:10:12 <StealthCP> Smart doesn't have a dialer
Dec 26 21:10:16 <rooly> lol
Dec 26 21:10:17 <rooly> goose
Dec 26 21:10:18 <StealthCP> Finxi does
Dec 26 21:10:29 <StealthCP> but, it's not just got as much on the home screen
Dec 26 21:10:35 <Tig|> Dave,  ah I heard that it was hardcore gsm pron people were into around here...  no idea where they get the goats... 
Dec 26 21:10:49 <Dave> O_O
Dec 26 21:10:53 <StealthCP> once again, there's no 'skin' (in this case) that can do everything :P
Dec 26 21:11:19 <StealthCP> ok, dialing causes a crash
Dec 26 21:11:23 <Dave> horrible puns detected
Dec 26 21:11:33 <rooly> on 4.3.3?
Dec 26 21:13:31 <StealthCP> aye
Dec 26 21:13:34 <StealthCP> I really
Dec 26 21:13:41 <StealthCP> don't want to spend 20 minutes flashing 4.3.2
Dec 26 21:13:48 <StealthCP> JUST to see if dailing works there
Dec 26 21:14:14 <StealthCP> this is where I wonder about some people
Dec 26 21:14:22 <StealthCP> such as the Qt Extended 4.4.x guys..
Dec 26 21:14:28 <Dave> flash it like it's hot
Dec 26 21:14:32 <rooly> lol
Dec 26 21:14:55 <rooly> you know, i never noticed there was no dialer
Dec 26 21:14:56 <StealthCP> what's stopping them (us/anone) adding say the web browser to 4.3.x
Dec 26 21:15:12 <StealthCP> or bits at a time, keeping everything working
Dec 26 21:15:21 <rooly> not a thing
Dec 26 21:16:00 <StealthCP> I don't understand Qtopia that much though, nor do I really feel like looking it around inside out
Dec 26 21:16:34 <rooly> its not so bad
Dec 26 21:16:42 <StealthCP> I have to say..
Dec 26 21:16:51 <StealthCP> the media player is Something Epic
Dec 26 21:17:07 <rooly> i just wish it could play more types of video files
Dec 26 21:17:17 <rooly> but video has to be specially transcoded for the FR
Dec 26 21:17:31 <Digital_Pioneer> I hate that...
Dec 26 21:17:42 <rooly> not a single player, just for the FR in general
Dec 26 21:17:51 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah, that's gotta get fixed. :\
Dec 26 21:18:14 <StealthCP> so does acceleration
Dec 26 21:18:20 <StealthCP> hardware scaling
Dec 26 21:18:26 <StealthCP> and stuff
Dec 26 21:18:29 <Digital_Pioneer> LOL, true.
Dec 26 21:18:35 <Digital_Pioneer> True, true, true.
Dec 26 21:18:36 <rooly> i think, to 320x240 rez, and using a specific codec to minimize processor usage
Dec 26 21:18:44 <rooly> there's something in the wiki about it
Dec 26 21:18:58 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah, I got a video transcoded for it... Way too much trouble.
Dec 26 21:19:18 <Digital_Pioneer> You can't really do it on the FR either, I tried... It would take days.
Dec 26 21:19:25 <rooly> lmao
Dec 26 21:19:43 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah
Dec 26 21:20:09 * rooly sighs
Dec 26 21:20:10 <Dave> droooooooooly
Dec 26 21:20:14 <rooly> installing windows AGAIN
Dec 26 21:20:21 <SpeedEvil> Transcoding is actually possible.
Dec 26 21:20:25 <Digital_Pioneer> And you have to have a patched mplayer that uses glamo... What IS glamo anyways?
Dec 26 21:20:45 <Digital_Pioneer> rooly: Don't do that. That's a reallly bad idea. :P
Dec 26 21:20:46 <SpeedEvil> glamo is a mediochre accellerator chip, connected over an ISA bus
Dec 26 21:20:58 <Digital_Pioneer> LOL
Dec 26 21:21:16 <rooly> Digital_Pioneer: well i have to if i want to play video games that take advantage of my brand new nvidia gforce 260gtx
Dec 26 21:21:19 <SpeedEvil> transcoding on the device. I got about 1/4 speed on 640*480 AVIs IIRC on neo1973
Dec 26 21:21:31 <Digital_Pioneer> rooly: It's not worth it.
Dec 26 21:21:55 <Digital_Pioneer> It's like buying an iPhone so you can use DRM properly.
Dec 26 21:21:57 <rooly> i'm instaling linux and dualbooting of course
Dec 26 21:22:02 <Digital_Pioneer> :P
Dec 26 21:22:12 <rooly> i just wanna play my new game
Dec 26 21:22:21 <rooly> gta san andreas
Dec 26 21:23:13 * rooly is gonna install games on the linux side too
Dec 26 21:23:16 <rooly> don't worry
Dec 26 21:23:37 <rooly> i'm a developer, so i like to use an os that makes development easy
Dec 26 21:24:14 <Digital_Pioneer> Heheheh
Dec 26 21:24:45 <Digital_Pioneer> I'm not a developer, I'm barely a programmer, and I still prefer to use an OS that makes development easy. :)
Dec 26 21:25:42 * rooly sighs...
Dec 26 21:25:48 <rooly> i have to reinstall everything that i had installed
Dec 26 21:26:00 <rooly> but at least i now have a 260gtx
Dec 26 21:29:08 <Digital_Pioneer> I have a GeForce 7150M. Hailed by reviewers as being a weak graphics card. And it can run Compiz-Fusion without a hiccup. :)
Dec 26 21:29:24 <rooly> lol, yeah
Dec 26 21:31:51 <Digital_Pioneer> I wonder why people spend massive sums of money to buy a new graphics card, almost powerful enough to handle microsoft's incompetence... They can turn out crappier GUI code faster than you can buy new graphics cards to render it. :P
Dec 26 21:33:03 <mwester> The problem is the same one Linux coders have.  The perceived need for optmization is inverse to the availability of faster silicon.
Dec 26 21:33:49 <mwester> The only real difference is that the typical linux hacker's hardware is a generation behind microsoft, due to the need for open docs, or reverse engineering.
Dec 26 21:34:28 <Digital_Pioneer> Whatever the reason, it works better and does more faster on cheaper hardware. :P
Dec 26 21:35:44 <rooly> it sure does
Dec 26 21:35:57 <rooly> its the same problem that causes java to remain slow
Dec 26 21:36:28 <Digital_Pioneer> And what's that?
Dec 26 21:36:56 <rooly> people state that computers are so fast nowadays that java is no longer slow
Dec 26 21:37:06 <Digital_Pioneer> Hahah
Dec 26 21:37:19 <rooly> but java is still noticably slow
Dec 26 21:37:30 <Digital_Pioneer> And then you write the cool new feature into your program, and it's slow again. :P
Dec 26 21:39:11 <mwester> Yep, most commercial data center managers will openly admit that it's far, far cheaper to buy an extra several GBytes of RAM for a server than it is to pay a programmer to make even small changes to the code to make it smaller -- and similarly with multi-core processors.
Dec 26 21:39:12 <Digital_Pioneer> That's odd. KIO is tripping up with the FR...
Dec 26 21:40:16 <mwester> Pretty soon the only folks who will care about C anymore will be us embedded folks, and the folks who write the libraries and VMs to support Java, C#, and other higher-level languages ;)
Dec 26 21:40:36 <mwester> We'll be unique, and able to command higher salaries.
Dec 26 21:40:45 <mwester> Or so I tell my wife, in order to justify my hobby.
Dec 26 21:40:58 <Digital_Pioneer> LOL
Dec 26 21:43:45 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah, they only teach C++ anymore it seems.
Dec 26 21:44:23 <Digital_Pioneer> Oh, the dumb FR suspended on my SSH connections...
Dec 26 21:44:33 <Digital_Pioneer> That's why KIO is having so much trouble.
Dec 26 21:45:28 <Digital_Pioneer> Well... I don't know WHAT it's doing...
Dec 26 21:47:00 <Digital_Pioneer> Holy crap, frameworkd has gone insane!!
Dec 26 21:47:05 <Digital_Pioneer> LOL
Dec 26 21:48:53 <Digital_Pioneer> OK, I'm sick of my FR going nuts and I have to pull the battery on it... Is there no better way to shut it down?
Dec 26 21:48:59 <rooly> erm
Dec 26 21:49:00 <rooly> no
Dec 26 21:49:12 <Digital_Pioneer> :(
Dec 26 21:49:23 <Digital_Pioneer> Need an alt-sysrq type trick on here.
Dec 26 21:50:32 <Digital_Pioneer> Well, frameworkd has gone nuts... It ate all my RAM and swap... I'm trying to reboot the phone, but that's really slow.
Dec 26 21:50:43 <Digital_Pioneer> Anyone seen that?
Dec 26 21:51:26 <rooly> you can log onto via usb ssh and then use reboot
Dec 26 21:51:41 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah, that's what I'm doing.
Dec 26 21:51:58 <Digital_Pioneer> Extremely slow. Trying to kill frameworkd now.
Dec 26 21:52:37 <Digital_Pioneer> Good thing I had an SSH open already, it won't let me make any more.
Dec 26 21:52:39 <ingi> DP: pulling the battery is great, works with the car too...
Dec 26 21:53:08 <Digital_Pioneer> ingi: Yeah, kinda like cutting off your legs to cure athlete's foot. :)
Dec 26 21:53:19 <ingi> DP: :-)
Dec 26 21:55:17 * Digital_Pioneer tries to renice -19 $$... Maybe he'll get some responsiveness...
Dec 26 21:55:25 <Digital_Pioneer> Aww, SSH died.
Dec 26 21:57:23 <Tm_T> hi lpotter
Dec 26 21:57:38 <lpotter> hello
Dec 26 21:58:26 <Tm_T> lpotter: how's it going? having/had good holidays?
Dec 26 21:59:23 <lpotter> going ok.  good holidays and moving house all at the same time!
Dec 26 22:00:03 <Tm_T> aww
Dec 26 22:00:09 <Digital_Pioneer> Aaagh, I'm gonna have to pull the batt. :((
Dec 26 22:00:29 <Tm_T> lpotter: I'm having fun with Qt 4.5, hrrr
Dec 26 22:00:54 <Digital_Pioneer> It's strange that the thing can run on USB power alone...
Dec 26 22:01:07 <mwester> It can't really.
Dec 26 22:01:31 <Digital_Pioneer> Oh, yeah, It finally died
Dec 26 22:02:37 <Digital_Pioneer> "bat driver failed to report `status` property" <--- Ring any bells? :\
Dec 26 22:04:22 <mwester> Digital_Pioneer:  Yep.
Dec 26 22:04:58 <mwester> Digital_Pioneer:  GTA02 2.6.24 or other?
Dec 26 22:05:00 <Digital_Pioneer> mwester: What does it mean/do?
Dec 26 22:05:08 <Digital_Pioneer> That's it.
Dec 26 22:06:16 <Digital_Pioneer> And I've FOUND A WAY to fix the accelerometer bug.
Dec 26 22:06:26 <Digital_Pioneer> At least until next reboot. :P
Dec 26 22:07:14 <mwester> The kernel reports the battery status, but if you do not have a GTA02 battery installed, it gets confused.  And it can't handle unplug/replug of the battery on-the-fly.
Dec 26 22:07:53 <Digital_Pioneer> echo 9.2 > /sys/devices/platform/lis302dl.{1,2}/full_scale #and the accelerometers work.
Dec 26 22:08:03 <Tig|> mwester, to be fair to it I doubt it was on the original spec list for the driver :)  
Dec 26 22:08:27 <Digital_Pioneer> I have a GTA02 battery...
Dec 26 22:08:36 <mwester> Tig|:  That is true, since at the time the device crashed immediately if the battery was removed. :)
Dec 26 22:09:06 <Digital_Pioneer> So if you had two batteries, could you hot-swap them?
Dec 26 22:09:19 <Tig|> Digital_Pioneer, yes if it is plugged in
Dec 26 22:09:27 <mwester> An improvement to the battery driver to handle non-gta02 batteries has been requested, and I think it would be reasonable also to get it to handle battery changes on-the-fly.
Dec 26 22:09:39 <Tig|> as that is how I always jump start my FR when completely battery dead
Dec 26 22:09:41 <Digital_Pioneer> Suspend it and you can, I've pulled the batt while in suspension and it worked fine... But it may have been plugged in.
Dec 26 22:10:52 <mwester> yep, suspend is a different state; you can do a lot in suspend that you can't in real life.
Dec 26 22:10:59 <Digital_Pioneer> Heheh
Dec 26 22:11:37 <Digital_Pioneer> So why do I have that error even though I have a stock battery?
Dec 26 22:11:48 <mwester> because you swapped the battery?
Dec 26 22:12:07 <Digital_Pioneer> I see that when it's booting up. I haven't swapped the battery then. :P
Dec 26 22:12:20 <mwester> ah, ok
Dec 26 22:12:20 <Digital_Pioneer> And it's always the same battery, I just have to remove it every now and then to shut the thing down.
Dec 26 22:12:46 <Digital_Pioneer> But I always see that when it boots now, whether it was a clean shutdown or not.
Dec 26 22:12:48 <Tig|> duff battery?
Dec 26 22:14:09 <Digital_Pioneer> Is it a serious problem?
Dec 26 22:14:54 <Digital_Pioneer> I've noticed the system is always telling me my battery is dead and I need to plug in... Even though it's already plugged in and the batt is fully charged... Is that the only effect?
Dec 26 22:15:40 <lindi-> how
Dec 26 22:16:00 <Digital_Pioneer> How what? Is it telling me to plug it in?
Dec 26 22:16:14 <lindi-> sigh, did not intend to hit return
Dec 26 22:16:21 <Digital_Pioneer> :P
Dec 26 22:16:27 <Digital_Pioneer> Hate it when that happens.
Dec 26 22:35:03 <StealthCP> rooly, how do I play videos on Qtopia?
Dec 26 22:46:14 <Digital_Pioneer> Why can't I use Kate to edit files on FR via fish://?
Dec 26 22:46:40 <SpeedEvil> Maybe Kate doesn't love you anymore?
Dec 26 22:46:59 <SpeedEvil> On a more sensible note.
Dec 26 22:47:09 <SpeedEvil> The ssh on the FR is very cut-down.
Dec 26 22:47:19 <SpeedEvil> Also, perhaps you're the wrong user
Dec 26 22:47:20 <Digital_Pioneer> Yeah, it sucks. :P
Dec 26 22:47:23 <SpeedEvil> if you're logged in as jkfdkjdgjkd
Dec 26 22:47:39 <Digital_Pioneer> fish://root@192.168.0.202 should work.
Dec 26 22:47:46 <SpeedEvil> and try to scp from the fr, the default user will be jkfdkjdgjkd not root as it should be
Dec 26 22:49:32 <Dave> Qtopia plays videos now? :P
Dec 26 22:49:42 <Dave> What other sort of amazing things does it do?
Dec 26 22:49:45 <Dave> make calls? :P
Dec 26 22:50:19 <CVirus> dave ... shut up
Dec 26 22:51:07 <Dave> Jerk :P
Dec 26 23:27:12 <almien> how long does it take for newly-registered projects to get SVN access?
Dec 26 23:30:58 <pooze> how do I install an opk file of a package that seemingly exists in the repository with the same name?
Dec 26 23:31:28 <pooze> I just keep getting the message "Multiple packages (e-wm and e-wm) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER.  Using latest."
Dec 26 23:31:39 <pooze> when I actually want to install the older opk file from disk.
Dec 26 23:31:51 <pooze> how do I tell opkg not to "use latest"
Dec 26 23:32:00 <pooze> I've tried with --force-downgrade, but that doesn't change anything.
Dec 26 23:34:10 <UndrWater> isn't there a force-install? 
Dec 26 23:35:05 <pooze> UndrWater: I didn't see -force-install, but there is a -force-reinstall, which also doesn't change anything.
Dec 26 23:37:15 <pooze> like... where does opkg keep its database of available packages?
Dec 26 23:37:38 <pooze> can't I just delete those files, install my opk package, then do opkg update to get those database files back?
Dec 26 23:42:20 <yoyo> can I set operator manualy?
Dec 27 02:00:56 <Digital_Pioneer> frameworkd has become massively unstable...
Dec 27 02:01:24 <Digital_Pioneer> It seems to be eating up a ton of RAM, and locking up the phone so that nothing can do anything.
Dec 27 02:04:13 <Digital_Pioneer> I just had to restart it, and of course, that screws everything else up...
Dec 27 02:06:16 <Digital_Pioneer> Phone is totally screwed. Frameworkd goes nuts immediately upon boot.
Dec 27 02:06:53 <Digital_Pioneer> *Sigh* Let's hope my backup flash doesn't have this...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 27 02:59:57 2008