**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 30 02:59:56 2008 Dec 30 03:06:08 hi Dec 30 03:06:22 I've read about openmoko on the web, and about the freerunner Dec 30 03:06:31 its a wip Dec 30 03:06:51 * SpeedEvil wips rooly. Dec 30 03:06:59 could you pls give me an idea of how do you backup sms and phonebook on your freerunner on a GNU/Linux machine? Dec 30 03:07:00 whip* Dec 30 03:07:07 rsync Dec 30 03:07:15 ncrfgs: basically. Dec 30 03:07:34 they're saved as single file? Dec 30 03:07:47 ncrfgs: it's not yet at the point where you'd expect to be able to give the phone to a sane person and have them use it as their everyday phone. Dec 30 03:08:05 in the current stack, yeah, its just a big sql database Dec 30 03:09:06 * raster wips SpeedEvil Dec 30 03:09:13 * raster <- king of wip Dec 30 03:09:23 ok, so let's say I have some ingoing and outgoing messages plus missed/received/dialed calles in my sql database on the FR Dec 30 03:09:42 what I have to do is plugging the SD card in some card reader and backup its content? Dec 30 03:09:44 ncrfgs: what work is being done at the moment is on the phone Dec 30 03:09:48 asuming your using some qtopia-based stack, of course Dec 30 03:09:51 that'd be amazing Dec 30 03:09:59 it'd imply the phone works reliably :) Dec 30 03:10:09 ncrfgs: little work is being done on porting stuff to other phones, or desktop interaction at the moment. Dec 30 03:10:31 ncrfgs: in many ways at the moment, most of the software stacks TOTALLY FAIL in major ways. Dec 30 03:10:47 if u plug into usb Dec 30 03:10:50 Some will occasionally work for some people for limited uses. Dec 30 03:10:50 u get usbnet Dec 30 03:10:55 ie an ethernet device Dec 30 03:10:59 ifconfig usb0 up Dec 30 03:11:02 with the right ip Dec 30 03:11:05 add a route Dec 30 03:11:08 bingo - u can ssh in Dec 30 03:11:13 and scp stuff back and forth Dec 30 03:11:48 But if you want a phone you can give your somewhat computer literate (can work firefox) mother, it's not there yet. At all. Dec 30 03:12:08 oh nono Dec 30 03:12:42 it's just that my nokia 8310 phone has recently left me :( Dec 30 03:13:00 :/ Dec 30 03:13:01 so the FR would be your only working phone? Dec 30 03:13:03 and I've been considering for some time to using Free Software on my mobile as well Dec 30 03:13:09 if you want a phone to make you crazy, mad, annoyed, upset, stressed, and angry, but still love it, then you probably need a wife, not the FR Dec 30 03:13:30 so I though this was the good occasion to get a FR Dec 30 03:13:31 raster, some of us use the FR reliably Dec 30 03:13:44 I've not heard anything saying 'FR after x/y/z' will ship with buzz fixes Dec 30 03:13:49 that is a showstopper for some people Dec 30 03:14:09 and you don't know if it's a showstopper before you buy, as it seems to affect some people variably. Dec 30 03:14:14 to date i have yet to see my FR reliably wake from suspend every single time Dec 30 03:14:19 yeah, but some people are bitches Dec 30 03:14:27 at least 1 in 10 or 20 or so it will hang solid Dec 30 03:14:46 it's been working fine for me for the last few weeks Dec 30 03:15:02 running mwester's kernel (not optimized) and qtopia 4.3.2 Dec 30 03:15:04 raster: I didn't have any problems when I was using QT, 2008.12 seems to have some problems though Dec 30 03:15:56 i have qt on my day-to-day phone Dec 30 03:15:58 raster, i do reboot daily tho, seeing as 4.3.2 doesn't always download sms when receiving them and waking up at the same time Dec 30 03:16:00 (motorola) Dec 30 03:16:07 and.. .that is one thing i do NOT want Dec 30 03:16:21 i've made my mind up about qt after having used it long enough :) Dec 30 03:16:35 oh believe me, i don't want to use ity Dec 30 03:16:52 but i also need a decently reliable phone and openmoko simply does not provide that Dec 30 03:17:30 mmm as long as it saves in/outgoing sms and phonecalls reliably np, it can shutdown during a phonecall it's ok :) Dec 30 03:17:35 plus i like my bluetooth Dec 30 03:20:09 rooly, ity = ? Dec 30 03:20:25 *it Dec 30 03:21:07 what did you mean with decently reliable BTW? I mean, does it occasionally reboot? Dec 30 03:21:54 i manually reboot at least once a day Dec 30 03:22:17 does it lose your data? Dec 30 03:22:18 i don't really NEED to, per se, but it doesn't always receive sms correctly when that sms causes a wakeup Dec 30 03:22:23 nope, hasn't yet Dec 30 03:22:39 as soon as the first sms goes thru correctly, you get all the ones before it that didn't receive tho Dec 30 03:22:51 (for most users) there are issues with dropped calls, battery life, suspend, ... Dec 30 03:22:59 Some of which make the phone unusable for some users Dec 30 03:23:24 sorry for my poor english, dropped calls = the call get terminated for no reason? Dec 30 03:23:49 i think most people will tell u Dec 30 03:23:54 get an FR as a cool toy to hack Dec 30 03:24:01 dont get it as a replacement of your daily phone Dec 30 03:24:07 not unless you like to deal with issues Dec 30 03:24:11 reboots Dec 30 03:24:11 unless your crazy like rooly Dec 30 03:24:14 debugging Dec 30 03:24:19 buzz noises Dec 30 03:24:28 yo Dec 30 03:24:29 I use my phone very little Dec 30 03:24:35 all trivial Dec 30 03:24:36 and are in love with the fr so much you overlook the problems Dec 30 03:24:48 then its fine Dec 30 03:24:49 I use use it as a day to day phone, but I don't use it much, and don't need it to be terribly reliable. Dec 30 03:24:50 i can talk louder Dec 30 03:24:53 if you want a phone that works reliably Dec 30 03:25:00 like most other consumer phones Dec 30 03:25:03 get a motorola v180 Dec 30 03:25:03 fr is not for you Dec 30 03:25:08 anyone seeing Ticket #1691 with 2008.12? Dec 30 03:25:11 suggestion is buy a normal consumer phone Dec 30 03:25:12 god that was the best phone i've ever had Dec 30 03:25:13 and a Fr to play with Dec 30 03:25:34 rooly do you use a motorola v180 as everyday phone? Dec 30 03:25:43 no Dec 30 03:25:48 i use my FR as my everday phone Dec 30 03:25:50 but i'm crazy Dec 30 03:26:09 * SpeedEvil points his insanometer at rooly, and it melts. Dec 30 03:26:13 plus i have the blind luck of having a good sim card, and a pretty decent network Dec 30 03:26:23 at&t Dec 30 03:26:40 mmm I'm sorry I don't mean to be repetitive but I'm a bit confused Dec 30 03:26:48 np Dec 30 03:26:51 don't do what i do! Dec 30 03:27:17 i thnk i have thouroughly hated every phone i've ever had Dec 30 03:27:26 each one had "Something" cool about it Dec 30 03:27:31 and then was let down everywhere else Dec 30 03:27:50 the thing about the FR is that it has the potential to be TOTALLY AWESOME Dec 30 03:27:55 but seriously, asu sucks Dec 30 03:27:58 * SpeedEvil passes raster a phone. http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=287 Dec 30 03:28:19 SpeedEvil: the zoom? Dec 30 03:28:34 (slow internude... will take 10 mins until that page loads) Dec 30 03:28:51 i should probably right my own efl package to make asu act like a phone and not a silly desktop-esqu screen Dec 30 03:28:55 'Description: The infamous Portable Rotary Phone is an original rotary phone that has been modified to be a cellular phone. The Port-O-Rotary has a functional rotary dial, rings the original, loud metallic bells when a call is received, and even has a dial tone.' Dec 30 03:28:57 MichaelShiloh: I can't say I've ever had that problem, except when I'm screwing around with gsm mux and gprs Dec 30 03:29:12 mux mux Dec 30 03:29:24 oooh Dec 30 03:29:27 hhahaha Dec 30 03:29:34 MichaelShiloh: yo mich! Dec 30 03:29:51 dufflebunk: this is a freshly flashed phone but i did try to run something. perhaps accidentally invoked the mux. i'll try a reflash. Dec 30 03:29:53 so I apologize in advance, but, I don't know of any consumer phone which uses Free Software, I don't need the FR (dunno how to say) to meet exagerated requirements I'd say Dec 30 03:29:59 I call very seldomly Dec 30 03:30:09 I just need to exchange a couple of sms a day Dec 30 03:30:15 and to backup them with ease Dec 30 03:30:19 ncrfgs: quite a lot use free software Dec 30 03:30:28 ncrfgs: but don't let you run software on them Dec 30 03:30:41 ncrfgs, this phone is not for you Dec 30 03:30:42 ncrfgs: a substantial fraction of new phones are linux in some form Dec 30 03:30:42 not yet Dec 30 03:30:45 give us a while longer Dec 30 03:30:55 along with backing up phonebook and phone calls Dec 30 03:31:08 MichaelShiloh: I don't think it's installed by default. So your problem is probably not what I've seen. Dec 30 03:31:28 SpeedEvil: i have ready numebrs of something like 50% of phones in unit volume are linux based Dec 30 03:31:35 of currently produced phones Dec 30 03:31:43 thanks to nokia Dec 30 03:31:49 Sounds plausible. Dec 30 03:31:52 (though most of those you dont see in the west - they are all floating around china/asia/japan) Dec 30 03:31:53 wow Dec 30 03:32:05 and yes Dec 30 03:32:09 dufflebunk: but you've given me the idea that i did do something, and a reflash might clear it up, then i can try to reproduce. thanks! Dec 30 03:32:10 is FR ready to meet those requirements as far as you can tell? or do you know of any cheap phone (I know FR isn't cheap but I would prefer not spending a lot for a not Free phone) which would allow me to easilly backup sms and phonebook/calls? Dec 30 03:32:11 totally closed systems Dec 30 03:33:01 ncrfgs, no, the FR is not for you. you can *technically* back them up, but the trouble is not worth it since you can't access them after Dec 30 03:33:13 *LOL* Dec 30 03:33:14 why I can't access them? Dec 30 03:33:17 however, i wouldn't be able to tell you what phone to use instead Dec 30 03:33:30 I mean if I backup the whole sql database I can access them with some sql queries can't I? Dec 30 03:33:56 SpeedEvil: did you get a beagleboard? Dec 30 03:34:00 lemme rephrase, the trouble you would have to go thru to retrieve it would be wholey not worth it Dec 30 03:34:35 but it is possible Dec 30 03:34:40 isn't just a matter of usbnet / ifconfig / scp? Dec 30 03:34:42 the capability exists Dec 30 03:34:47 pretty much Dec 30 03:34:47 raster: I'm sharply limited on toys I can buy - owing to tiny disposable income, so no. I'd like one, but... Dec 30 03:35:11 plus you have to find the database file, which may or may not be separated into hundred of peices Dec 30 03:35:19 :( Dec 30 03:35:27 SpeedEvil: ooh bugger - so still playing with your low end pic/fpga/pmu level devices? Dec 30 03:35:34 raster: ATM, yes. Dec 30 03:47:00 so,... Dec 30 03:47:01 yeah Dec 30 03:47:06 drooly Dec 30 03:47:10 the FR is on engadget again Dec 30 03:47:18 blurry-camming android Dec 30 03:47:22 oh the shame Dec 30 03:47:35 meh :p Dec 30 03:47:45 its like having a picture on the internet of balls in your mouth Dec 30 03:47:51 In the end, you're all whores. Dec 30 03:51:48 christ. people have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to devices Dec 30 03:51:54 here's a quote Dec 30 03:52:05 Now you need to have at least EDGE to compete as a smartphone, Dec 30 03:52:43 since when did the FR start getting marketed to idiot middlemanagent types as a smartphone? Dec 30 03:52:59 or that it is competing Dec 30 03:56:37 haha Dec 30 03:56:58 I was just looking over the "Best selling phones" of 2008... it's pretty sad, dismal, and pathetic. Dec 30 03:57:11 I would never pay $400-500 dollars for any of them. Dec 30 03:57:54 mind sending me that link? Dec 30 03:59:23 Well, I was just going by the best sellers section of mobiledia, which for all intents and purposes here (US), it's fairly conclusive. Dec 30 03:59:40 If anything it just provides a fair glimpse of how pathetic the mfc/markets are. Dec 30 03:59:46 Sad as they may be :[ Dec 30 04:01:33 The market really is, 85% Hey want yet another iPhone knock-off? 12% is hey, want a cool new looking phone but which actually sucks, and 3% is hey want the same old shit but with a crummier camera? Dec 30 04:01:37 -_-; Dec 30 04:01:58 AWESOME Dec 30 04:02:30 lol Dec 30 04:02:52 about the ONLY phone i'ave actually wanted, ever, is the new blackberry Dec 30 04:03:09 aside from my FR, of course Dec 30 04:03:43 * mwester never actually wanted the phone he likes the best. Dec 30 04:04:07 now, my favorite phone of all time is the motorola v180 Dec 30 04:05:46 The company issued Treos -- you used it, or you paid for your own cell calls. So I took it. And I found that I really really liked the Treos. I still think that while it's very dated now, the Treo 650 is still right up there with the best of the smartphones. We (opnemko community) would do well to model our UIs and user interactions after some of the features of the Treo. Dec 30 04:06:26 well Dec 30 04:06:26 why Dec 30 04:06:28 don't Dec 30 04:06:29 we Dec 30 04:07:02 Because raster isn't running the show... Dec 30 04:07:05 I mean *sssssssssssh* Dec 30 04:07:11 (Don't tell Sean that) ;) Dec 30 04:07:30 exactly Dec 30 04:07:38 i don't care if i get banned Dec 30 04:07:42 ASU SUCKS! Dec 30 04:08:00 the gtk UI should have been kept, or at least adapted, to maintain useability Dec 30 04:08:10 the interface should have at least been maintained Dec 30 04:08:18 now...icons just get lost Dec 30 04:08:36 want to dial a number? have more than 10 programs installed? good luck finding the icon! Dec 30 04:08:37 duh Dec 30 04:08:55 haha Dec 30 04:09:02 You tell 'em, rooly! Dec 30 04:09:59 can someone tell me why exactly did they abandon the gtk interface Dec 30 04:10:51 sssssssh Dec 30 04:11:09 quiet... or you'll reawaken the holy war, either that, or the wester :p Dec 30 04:11:23 We've all gone on many-a-tirades about this very issue, time and time again. Dec 30 04:11:54 i realize it was slow Dec 30 04:12:08 It all comes down to, yeah yeah, Openmoko was, in this particular case, stupid (made poor decisions and yeah well, I think the lightbulb joke on the wiki/Jokes page sums it up pretty nicely) :) Dec 30 04:12:22 ic Dec 30 04:12:25 Dave: would you pay $800 for somethng totally awesome? Dec 30 04:12:25 :) Dec 30 04:12:30 Perhaps Dec 30 04:12:34 IS IT A PANDORA? Dec 30 04:12:41 yeah, the lightbulb joke does sum it up Dec 30 04:12:56 lets say its the same as a pandora Dec 30 04:12:59 just smaller screen Dec 30 04:13:02 and with 3g Dec 30 04:13:13 oh snap? Dec 30 04:13:20 Are you designing it? Dec 30 04:13:24 and a really awesome aluminium milled case Dec 30 04:13:27 building it? Dec 30 04:13:35 was that a six or an 8 Dec 30 04:13:36 RAISING AN UNSTOPPABLE ARMY OF THEM? Dec 30 04:13:38 (well with plastic bits and holes for RF...) Dec 30 04:13:38 eight Dec 30 04:14:57 raster, does it run linux? Dec 30 04:17:00 lets assume it does Dec 30 04:17:03 and uses X Dec 30 04:17:08 so u can sue any wm/ui u like Dec 30 04:17:11 or if u like qt Dec 30 04:17:15 oh, well that throws the iphone out of it Dec 30 04:17:18 or android Dec 30 04:17:21 though it'd be nicer if everyone just ran under x Dec 30 04:17:27 Raster, where do I sign my soul away? :) Dec 30 04:17:29 so u could have "qt in a window" Dec 30 04:17:30 yes, it would Dec 30 04:17:37 or "android in a window" Dec 30 04:17:39 :) Dec 30 04:17:57 Oh and raster, does this include the model design we came up with that one night for a transparent tacticle keyboard - touchscreen interface? :) Dec 30 04:17:58 Everything runs Linux... Most servers... Embedded systems... The PS3 and xBox.... Even microsoft.com runs on Linux. Dec 30 04:18:24 Digital, yes, even the most blasphemous of systems/corporations :) Dec 30 04:18:28 but does it blend Dec 30 04:18:34 rooly, everything blends. Dec 30 04:18:40 but Dec 30 04:18:44 Does it IMPLODE? Dec 30 04:18:46 :D Dec 30 04:18:51 Dave: unknown :) Dec 30 04:19:09 Raster, aww, I thought we had something going there on that rather creative design we concocted. Dec 30 04:19:12 Dave: Even the creator of windoze can't live without Linux driving their computers... I love it. Dec 30 04:19:24 Yes, hi-larious. Dec 30 04:22:24 Dave: mechanically tough Dec 30 04:22:27 but lets see Dec 30 04:22:46 just wonderign if $800 is a pricepoint willing ot be paid for Dec 30 04:22:50 thats about what the iphone costs Dec 30 04:22:55 if you guy it outright Dec 30 04:22:57 is that an eight or a six! Dec 30 04:22:58 buy Dec 30 04:23:24 yeah :\ Dec 30 04:23:30 rooly, what the hell are you talking about? Dec 30 04:23:31 i can't really tell, i'm on a really crappy 20" tv Dec 30 04:23:39 800 or 600 Dec 30 04:23:53 $800 Dec 30 04:23:54 EIGHT Dec 30 04:23:57 thanks Dec 30 04:23:59 EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARUS Dec 30 04:24:13 or so raster claimed Dec 30 04:24:34 Though I figure he is merely theorizing/fantasizing at this point. Dec 30 04:24:42 IIRC the iphone 3G teardowns indicated a price of maybe $150 Dec 30 04:24:42 Isn't that right, Mr. Raster? :) Dec 30 04:24:45 For the hardware Dec 30 04:24:53 haha, really? Dec 30 04:24:58 yes Dec 30 04:25:02 Likely because they produce so many of them, right? Dec 30 04:25:09 That helps lots, yes. Dec 30 04:25:13 people ask me why i would pay 400$ for a phone that doesn't work Dec 30 04:25:13 yeah Dec 30 04:25:39 i look at them with an iphone and ask why they would pay 600 for a phone that is so crippled, it could never do what i want my phone to do Dec 30 04:25:42 and iphone for me would cost about $800 shipped from Japan. Dec 30 04:25:46 or under that, from China. Dec 30 04:26:00 If you say 'We're thinking of putting your chip into our new iphone'. Your competitor has offered a price of $3/chip. What can you do. Dec 30 04:26:14 SpeedEvil: cost of components Dec 30 04:26:15 Then you're going to bend over backwards to get under $3. Dec 30 04:26:25 assholes Dec 30 04:26:25 and thats buying in millions of units quantities Dec 30 04:26:31 yeah yeah Dec 30 04:26:32 yes Dec 30 04:26:39 :( Dec 30 04:27:28 if u produce something that only has lets say 10k or 20k units Dec 30 04:27:28 instead of 10million Dec 30 04:27:31 your prices are MUCH higher Dec 30 04:27:47 also rememebr that if u do moulds an injection mold is somewhere in the range of 60-150k Dec 30 04:27:51 just to mave it made Dec 30 04:27:56 every case costs like $0.2 Dec 30 04:28:00 haha Dec 30 04:28:01 but the setup costs are high Dec 30 04:28:08 do short runs and your costs per unit are very high Dec 30 04:28:09 yeah :\ Dec 30 04:28:12 same with 3g Dec 30 04:28:15 ans soc Dec 30 04:28:16 ick Dec 30 04:28:18 and all the other bits Dec 30 04:28:21 so, uhh Dec 30 04:28:31 thus pice for small runs will always be high Dec 30 04:28:39 so mayaswell just take top-of-the-line components Dec 30 04:28:42 raster, and multitouchscreen displays? :) Dec 30 04:28:45 that cost mroe anywaye Dec 30 04:28:49 and make it somethng premium Dec 30 04:28:50 raster, agreed. Dec 30 04:29:03 Cadillac, baby Dec 30 04:29:10 raster, what kind of touch? Dec 30 04:30:12 capacitive or pressure Dec 30 04:30:14 capacitive Dec 30 04:30:20 raster likes to touch ;p Dec 30 04:30:23 so likely able to do multitouch Dec 30 04:30:30 pressure is just not worht it Dec 30 04:30:32 oh oh Dec 30 04:30:39 * raster touches his pussy Dec 30 04:30:39 and multi-color led's please!! Dec 30 04:30:44 ;p Dec 30 04:30:52 Raster - I DEMAND THIS! Dec 30 04:30:58 pussy purrs Dec 30 04:31:13 wtf, mine moos o_O Dec 30 04:31:20 was mulling somethng like a 3" or 3.5" screen Dec 30 04:31:33 so far cant find the 320x640 3.5" i've seen Dec 30 04:31:39 but the 3" 272x480 is out there Dec 30 04:31:47 aww Dec 30 04:31:53 yeah, but Dec 30 04:31:55 vga, qvga, or better Dec 30 04:31:59 you can't settle... Dec 30 04:32:21 8.9" screens are cheap :) Dec 30 04:32:31 enter the netbooks Dec 30 04:33:04 anyway Dec 30 04:33:08 you guys mull it over Dec 30 04:33:16 i';d like 320x640 Dec 30 04:33:18 but as far as i'm concerned, 3g is pointless Dec 30 04:33:21 but i cant find it anywhere Dec 30 04:33:26 its still freakin dialup Dec 30 04:33:28 i can find the 272x480 Dec 30 04:33:32 I could totally see raster an I opening up a secret shop Dec 30 04:33:34 so almost iphone res Dec 30 04:33:38 (320x480) Dec 30 04:33:42 but smaller screen Dec 30 04:33:47 (3" vs 3.5 for iphone) Dec 30 04:33:56 okay, one quick test Dec 30 04:34:09 ping using FR's grps gets between 400 and 700 Dec 30 04:34:10 Raster, where's my 320x640? Dec 30 04:34:13 rooly: vast numebr of peolpe disagree Dec 30 04:34:16 and a little higher for the first packet Dec 30 04:34:16 rooly, nice Dec 30 04:34:19 and as such.. a vast amount of $ disagrees Dec 30 04:34:25 ie "no 3g - and no sale" Dec 30 04:34:36 3g blows Dec 30 04:34:41 It's all about 4G now, baby! Dec 30 04:34:46 my computer running off of a 3g air card gets 250 ping Dec 30 04:34:51 so... Dec 30 04:34:55 no, not worth it Dec 30 04:34:59 cause its STILL DIALUP Dec 30 04:35:00 that blows Dec 30 04:35:02 hahaha Dec 30 04:35:08 Rooly, where the hell do you live then? Dec 30 04:35:10 Oh the heck with 3G and 4G -- I have 21G here! Dec 30 04:35:14 which 3g? Dec 30 04:35:16 i'm in mississippi Dec 30 04:35:20 the MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON Dec 30 04:35:22 at&t Dec 30 04:35:26 Ajnd I'll be upgrading to 97G soon! Dec 30 04:35:27 umts? hspa? Dec 30 04:35:29 oh and yeah, EVDO > 3G Dec 30 04:35:33 :P~ Dec 30 04:35:35 hell if i know Dec 30 04:35:37 telcos want 3g Dec 30 04:35:39 at&t aircard Dec 30 04:35:40 backwater telcos? Dec 30 04:35:45 they want to get data the hell off their 2g networks Dec 30 04:35:49 yeehaw? Dec 30 04:35:54 yeah Dec 30 04:36:11 * mwester thinks all the hype about "G"s is silly when data plans are so outrageously priced, that's what's really holding back the technology. :( Dec 30 04:36:17 Raster, a friend of mine wrote a paper last year on methods for desaturation using 3G infrastructure and something Dec 30 04:36:20 hdpa is 7.2mbit Dec 30 04:36:24 agreed, mwester Dec 30 04:36:24 hsupa Dec 30 04:36:26 mwester: Hear hear. Dec 30 04:36:27 i mean Dec 30 04:36:28 Data plans have to be expensive on some networks. Dec 30 04:36:31 mester, yeah, the companies are holding it back! Dec 30 04:36:38 Otherwise all that happens is the data saturates the net Dec 30 04:36:38 i'd happily accept dialup if it didn't cost 50$'s a month Dec 30 04:36:41 mwester: indeed Dec 30 04:36:42 Speedevil, no, no they don't, not here. Dec 30 04:36:55 mwester: htough as such theres a factor of 100-200x more for 2g data than 3g here Dec 30 04:37:00 in cost Dec 30 04:37:05 Not when there's fiber running under everyone's ass (at least in the civilized parts of the wor... country). Dec 30 04:37:05 so... 3g or bust Dec 30 04:37:10 My stupid plan gives me 1.95 cents/kb. I don't use GPRS. :P Dec 30 04:37:14 Dave: fibre is irrelevant Dec 30 04:37:22 Dave: the important part is the spectrum. Dec 30 04:37:26 blah Dec 30 04:37:34 Dave: you can only push so many megabytes/second out of a tower. Dec 30 04:37:41 Dave: that can either be voice calls or data Dec 30 04:37:45 I'll just sit here content, in my compound, with my sat phone, thank you very much. Dec 30 04:37:47 Dave: straight swap Dec 30 04:38:08 Speedevil, first get rid of CDMA. Dec 30 04:38:17 did anyone read the scam of the century - that text messages cost networks nothing http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/text-messages-c.html Dec 30 04:38:22 i know im coming in the middle of a convo Dec 30 04:38:24 oh and convince 60% of the market to throw out all their infrastructure and income. Dec 30 04:38:34 then things will start moving. Dec 30 04:38:49 text messages cost nothing. Dec 30 04:38:59 But lacking text messages, prices for other stuff needs to risrt Dec 30 04:39:24 u dont know what its like in canada- there a monopoly on the companies - theyre astronomical Dec 30 04:39:36 the full article on texting is http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28digi.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1230611928-2cEC3D72BVEImwKFGh1SIw Dec 30 04:39:46 Dave: http://www.tarakash.com/josh/20081201863/Gadgets/Nokia-launches-true-iPhone-Killer-5800-XpressMusic.html Dec 30 04:39:53 Speedevil, here's a thought, if you convinced more and more of the population to use TTY, would that improve things? Dec 30 04:40:44 pingvid: How am I not surprised? Dec 30 04:41:05 And I'm sure data transfer plans don't cost telcos a thousandth of what they charge. Dec 30 04:41:13 oh snap? Dec 30 04:41:14 i dont know about that Dec 30 04:41:24 theyve got fuckloads of overheads but yeah - its a mafia Dec 30 04:41:39 pingvid just hit it right on the head :) Dec 30 04:41:49 I was about to respond, Digital Pioneer, but that's it. :) Dec 30 04:42:02 pingvid to the rescue! Dec 30 04:42:07 Raster, oh and I've seen that before, yes :) Dec 30 04:42:08 hah Dec 30 04:42:46 man cnn is some depressing shit Dec 30 04:43:27 you mean you still actually watch tv news? Dec 30 04:43:30 Raster, haha... wow, I was just about to say Pastor... Dec 30 04:43:32 i stopped doing that years ago Dec 30 04:43:40 haha - background while on ninjavideo Dec 30 04:43:41 (which, strangely, would have been seemingly accurate) Dec 30 04:43:42 but yeah Dec 30 04:43:47 im analog like that Dec 30 04:43:49 Anyway, raster, have you gotten your hands on one of those yet? Dec 30 04:43:58 played with one, or tried things out? Dec 30 04:44:38 it has a 2.5" 320x640 lcd Dec 30 04:44:46 if i can find a supplier Dec 30 04:44:49 i'm set Dec 30 04:44:51 whats this? Dec 30 04:44:52 thats a 1st choice Dec 30 04:44:57 err Dec 30 04:44:59 3.5" Dec 30 04:45:06 and no - i havent Dec 30 04:45:48 just looking for an lcd Dec 30 04:45:58 monitor? Dec 30 04:46:10 yes Dec 30 04:46:16 no Dec 30 04:46:22 a 3.5" lcd moniter running at 320x640 Dec 30 04:46:27 thats what he's looking for Dec 30 04:46:29 HAHAHAH Dec 30 04:46:40 hahahaa Dec 30 04:46:49 if you don't know your imperial, then ~8cm Dec 30 04:46:53 i'd say get spare iphone parts Dec 30 04:47:08 wrong res Dec 30 04:47:13 htc? Dec 30 04:47:24 yeah, the FR has a much higher rez than the iphone or ANY htc phone Dec 30 04:47:35 maybe even GPS parts! Dec 30 04:47:40 nokia 7710 also uses it Dec 30 04:47:42 its pretty much only beat by MIDs Dec 30 04:47:43 http://my-symbian.com/s90/techdata_7710.php Dec 30 04:47:51 huzzah! Dec 30 04:48:18 Raster, you going to shake them up, and then possibly down? :) Dec 30 04:48:23 (for the info) Dec 30 04:50:35 rooly: actually it's trounced by anything in japan Dec 30 04:50:35 :) Dec 30 04:50:35 800x480 in 3" is now normal there Dec 30 04:50:35 832x480 in 3.2" on some of the sharp phones is.. just incredible Dec 30 04:50:48 shake up nokia?> Dec 30 04:51:03 raster, why not use a japanese screen then Dec 30 04:51:18 rooly: impossible to find a supplier Dec 30 04:51:20 bulloks if it costs more Dec 30 04:51:39 raster: engadget doesn't think much of the nokia device Dec 30 04:51:44 thats crazy talk. if its more or less standard in japan, i'm sure there's a supplier Dec 30 04:52:03 MichaelShiloh: not a problem Dec 30 04:52:03 not if you're not inhouse, or in the family :) Dec 30 04:52:06 i just want the screen Dec 30 04:52:09 MichaelShiloh, engadget is like rupert and ebbs for movies Dec 30 04:52:09 :) Dec 30 04:52:10 haha Dec 30 04:52:15 time for a harvest? Dec 30 04:52:16 rooly: you dont know how it works in japan Dec 30 04:52:18 you go with the exact opposite of what they say Dec 30 04:52:19 :) Dec 30 04:52:23 your right, i don't Dec 30 04:52:39 basically the TELCO orders the parts Dec 30 04:52:43 they arrange everything Dec 30 04:52:47 they DEFINE how the ui will be Dec 30 04:52:50 mannnn this looks sooooo good Dec 30 04:52:51 http://www.collider.com/entertainment/news/article.asp/aid/10284/tcid/1 Dec 30 04:52:52 and they order 30 million screens Dec 30 04:53:04 then they tell their suppliers "you will use this screen, and thius chip, anbd this thing" Dec 30 04:53:08 and then they do Dec 30 04:53:14 if u arent ordering 30million screens Dec 30 04:53:19 they dont evenm talk to you Dec 30 04:53:22 hell its not listed Dec 30 04:53:29 its custom buuilt and ordered Dec 30 04:53:34 u can look for a price list Dec 30 04:53:37 it doesnt exist Dec 30 04:53:46 if u want it - yo bneed to find the maker Dec 30 04:53:52 wait for the exclusive supplier deal to end Dec 30 04:53:58 then discuss with them Dec 30 04:54:10 and to do that u'd better have a name that says "i'm going to order a fuckload of these" Dec 30 04:54:14 unfortunately, yes. Dec 30 04:54:54 so you can't even ask the telco politely for say a couple hundred thousand spare screens, at a profit to them? Dec 30 04:55:04 hell to the fuck no Dec 30 04:55:10 rooly: no Dec 30 04:55:14 as they dont even talk to you Dec 30 04:55:22 you obviously haven't been in business in the US very long, rooly :P Dec 30 04:55:24 you are an annoying fly buzzing in the room Dec 30 04:55:27 to be shooed out Dec 30 04:55:42 * rooly sighs Dec 30 04:55:46 gotta love noncompetes Dec 30 04:55:46 in .jp its not about profit Dec 30 04:55:51 its about RELATIONSHIPS Dec 30 04:55:57 * rooly laughs Dec 30 04:55:59 YES Dec 30 04:56:05 you must maintain the business relationships u have Dec 30 04:56:13 we can start refering to countries by their tld Dec 30 04:56:14 not run after the last doller in profit Dec 30 04:56:25 like everyone does here :) Dec 30 04:56:36 nickel & diming motherfuckers Dec 30 04:57:29 rooly: rotfl Dec 30 04:57:34 anywho, i've got to sleep Dec 30 04:57:38 aww Dec 30 04:57:42 cause here in the .us, its kinda late Dec 30 04:57:47 raster: but really, what turns you on so much about this device? Dec 30 04:57:47 that's too bad, rooly Dec 30 04:57:57 rooly: you must be east coast; g'night Dec 30 04:58:03 nah Dec 30 04:58:07 just have to wake up at 4:30am Dec 30 04:58:08 nn Dec 30 04:58:17 MichaelShiloh: nothing. jus the scree res/size Dec 30 04:58:20 a good combo Dec 30 04:58:22 not that i'll sleep... Dec 30 04:58:34 4:30AM is still "last night" in my opinion. Dec 30 04:59:04 Oh come on raster - you know you love the WSoD. Dec 30 04:59:58 i know its not the right room... but anyone know how to set up what emails get sent to users on a site Dec 30 05:01:45 3.5" 320x480 on the iphone is a little low-dpi wise Dec 30 05:02:05 3.5" 320x640 is a 2:1 aspect ratio Dec 30 05:02:16 so room for a lot of vertical (or horizontal) content Dec 30 05:02:24 higher dpi than iphone Dec 30 05:02:28 but not as high as freerunner Dec 30 05:02:35 tho freerunner is nuts with dpi Dec 30 05:02:45 It's great! Dec 30 05:02:49 Stupendously amazing :D Dec 30 05:02:57 too bad it's not very usable for much else :) Dec 30 05:03:30 i think a "somehwre in between" res/dpi is the sweet spot Dec 30 05:03:36 right Dec 30 05:03:39 where its high enough dpi to look good at normal usage distances Dec 30 05:03:47 and not be an insane # of pixels to fill Dec 30 05:03:52 thus reducing performance Dec 30 05:03:54 hah Dec 30 05:03:59 and not power whore :) Dec 30 05:04:08 sure Dec 30 05:04:12 though, damn, that freerunner display *is* nice :) Dec 30 05:04:15 the larger the lcd the more power it'll suck Dec 30 05:06:04 yes Dec 30 05:06:08 but realistically Dec 30 05:06:13 heh Dec 30 05:06:19 u cant see the pixels in most real life use Dec 30 05:06:19 okay okay Dec 30 05:06:32 so the grunt used to fill them just blurs away Dec 30 05:06:36 true, especially on an everyday device, getting tossed around Dec 30 05:06:40 u need to find a nice middleground Dec 30 05:06:50 where u get nice crisp clear images Dec 30 05:06:53 and text Dec 30 05:06:55 color is good Dec 30 05:06:58 brightness good Dec 30 05:07:02 do research Dec 30 05:07:02 power usage low Dec 30 05:07:05 test devices Dec 30 05:07:13 processing grunt needed to fill it is reduced Dec 30 05:07:21 play around, load your UIs on the buffet Dec 30 05:07:36 no need - thats what i already "know" Dec 30 05:07:44 good Dec 30 05:07:45 result of having done graphics for so long Dec 30 05:07:48 :) Dec 30 05:07:49 true :) Dec 30 05:07:53 hah! Dec 30 05:08:00 i'm calling it a night as well. raster, mwester, speedevil - nice to see you all again Dec 30 05:08:05 So, what's keeping you... the moolah? (and perhaps the optional backing) ? Dec 30 05:08:06 i have at least my instincts telling me what the sweet spot is Dec 30 05:08:11 MichaelShiloh: nite! Dec 30 05:08:13 :) Dec 30 05:08:24 Dave: i'm an organised person Dec 30 05:08:24 i' Dec 30 05:08:28 m getting organised Dec 30 05:08:30 :) Dec 30 05:08:36 and mulah is another Dec 30 05:08:39 Ah Dec 30 05:08:47 So are you still in the plotting stages then? Dec 30 05:08:59 Origanizing your thoughts, principles, and arsenal? Dec 30 05:09:00 wasn't there a discussion about using multi-touch screen instead of single and the main argument was not being able to get the higher resolutions? Dec 30 05:09:02 in the avanced plottign stages Dec 30 05:09:10 Eeeeeeeeeeexcellent. Dec 30 05:09:26 jonsmith1982: resolution is separate from touch input Dec 30 05:09:28 also affordability, I believe. Dec 30 05:09:38 its merely to do with findelity of displayed imagery Dec 30 05:09:41 input is entirely separate Dec 30 05:09:56 k. Dec 30 05:09:57 does multitouch really matter? Dec 30 05:10:11 openmoko: yes. Dec 30 05:10:16 if u do a virtual on-screen kbd Dec 30 05:10:20 absolutely Dec 30 05:10:29 otherwise its a nice bonus Dec 30 05:10:50 Man, now I really wish I did have that keyboard we talked about raster :\ Dec 30 05:11:02 and I'm already envisioning it being retractable. Dec 30 05:11:17 (somehow...) Dec 30 05:22:47 is it normal for for the api to be broken in developement? shr-testing API-BREAKAGE! i'm no c programmer however i managed to fix it but why would they break the api in such a simple way without fixing the other side? Dec 30 05:29:18 API Breackage! Renamed new_frameworkd_handler() to frameworkd_handler_new() and dbus_connect_to_bus() to frameworkd_handler_connect(). Dec 30 05:30:46 api breakage is normal in developemtn Dec 30 05:30:50 u are using a TESTING image Dec 30 06:09:15 OK, my FR is stuck in suspension. Dec 30 06:09:48 I can't get it to do anything. No CPU interrupts wake it up, I pulled the battery and held the power and aux buttons for 15 seconds, put batt back in, it still won't start. Dec 30 06:10:23 I even called it, and I hear a ring tone on the line, but the FR remains dead. Dec 30 06:13:07 Ahh, got it. It worked when I plugged to USB instead of wall. Weird. Dec 30 06:13:35 I can't imagine it drained its battery... It's been in suspension, and was fully charged just a couple hours ago. Dec 30 06:14:07 I think it's that mwester kernel's fault. It likes to get stuck in suspension. Dec 30 06:21:28 mwester wears army boots Dec 30 06:50:15 good morning Dec 30 07:32:02 good morning Dec 30 08:12:48 is anybody alive here now?=) Dec 30 08:24:16 raster: why not just keep the 640x480 display? Dec 30 08:24:47 keep the only decent part in fr and just change everything else around it so that we get the processing power to actually draw something on it :) Dec 30 08:25:16 because its overkill Dec 30 08:25:39 its like buying a f1 car to drive in peak hour traffic to work Dec 30 08:25:43 it doesnt get u there faster Dec 30 08:25:51 u just get bragging rights for a while Dec 30 08:26:00 if we get enough cpu to actually draw video at 640x480 then I don't see how it's overkill Dec 30 08:26:08 until u realise the maintenance costs are eating a hole in your wallet Dec 30 08:26:10 :) Dec 30 08:26:14 i do Dec 30 08:26:40 as a lowe res will let you do other things Dec 30 08:26:46 no matter what reduce pixel # Dec 30 08:26:54 u get either higher fps Dec 30 08:27:02 or the ability to "do more" at a given fps Dec 30 08:27:13 sure Dec 30 08:27:26 like spending $100,000 on your house front door Dec 30 08:27:35 but only spending $100,000 on the rest of the house Dec 30 08:27:44 you should balance things Dec 30 08:28:21 but imo being able to play h264-videos is a decent benchmark of "enough power per pixel" Dec 30 08:28:37 for a mobile phone Dec 30 08:30:03 a very simpe view of things Dec 30 08:30:06 simple Dec 30 08:30:09 :) Dec 30 08:30:19 and if you have excess power then going for a higher-dpi display isn't a bad way to use that power Dec 30 08:30:44 you will never have excess Dec 30 08:30:50 ever Dec 30 08:31:04 :) Dec 30 08:31:19 well I don't see much benefit in being able to draw @100fps vs. @60fps on a lcd Dec 30 08:31:42 no excess cpu power? Dec 30 08:32:08 * madwoota wonders what System Idle Process is for then :) Dec 30 08:33:11 and I do like fr's dpi, you can actually have a decent number of lines of text on the display Dec 30 08:33:23 w/ kanji at more than 8pt detail Dec 30 08:35:37 the fact is u wont do 100fps Dec 30 08:35:43 because then u'll ADD a feature Dec 30 08:35:46 eg anti-aliasing Dec 30 08:35:49 to make it smoother Dec 30 08:35:52 and thus drop your fps Dec 30 08:35:55 or u'll add overlays Dec 30 08:36:02 and dont think of just videoo playback Dec 30 08:36:07 thats a very limited use-case Dec 30 08:36:12 as it has dfined limits Dec 30 08:36:25 ie the resolution of a video is poinltess being > than the res of the screen Dec 30 08:36:29 and fps > that original video is pointless Dec 30 08:36:37 so u have fairly well known recable limits Dec 30 08:36:40 reachable Dec 30 08:36:45 extend to other things Dec 30 08:36:48 eg games Dec 30 08:37:05 with 1/2 the pixels you can double the # of enemies you can draw Dec 30 08:37:11 on the screen and keep the same fps Dec 30 08:37:20 well in a generation or two of socs u will do anti-aliasing&overlays&100fps Dec 30 08:37:30 you can draw multiple layers of parallax scrolling Dec 30 08:37:33 not just 1 or 2 but 3, 4 etc. Dec 30 08:37:37 and so on Dec 30 08:38:06 well games will never have enough power and will always drive hw development Dec 30 08:38:54 2d u's too Dec 30 08:38:57 ui's Dec 30 08:39:05 a ui will become less boring Dec 30 08:39:09 but if you're building a device, I'd be perfectly happy with one that can do everything up to full-screen-h264 Dec 30 08:39:12 being to have animat4ed backdrops Dec 30 08:39:21 eg water glistening in sunlight Dec 30 08:39:32 with reflections... Dec 30 08:39:50 i'm making the point that you can throw the processing power itno more pixels than your eye can actually see Dec 30 08:39:54 (thus losing your work) Dec 30 08:40:02 or spending it on things your eye can see Dec 30 08:40:07 or user can experience Dec 30 08:40:07 if you can't do that with the same power as h264 playback then efl isn't as efficient as I thought it was :P Dec 30 08:40:36 i argue that the pixels on the 2.8" vga on the freerunner at normal usage levels are far beyond most peoples eyesigfht Dec 30 08:40:49 (unles you hold it up so close that its almost in your face Dec 30 08:41:42 I do hold it pretty close when reading stuff from it in small fonts Dec 30 08:41:45 and I like it that way :) Dec 30 08:41:57 and with a high dpi you don't need the anti-aliasing Dec 30 08:41:59 most people don't Dec 30 08:42:20 yes you do Dec 30 08:42:33 trust me Dec 30 08:42:38 its the catch cry for people all the time Dec 30 08:42:47 and you do spot the ugliness of no aa Dec 30 08:42:49 very easily Dec 30 08:42:55 aa makes the ugly go away Dec 30 08:43:01 even at 300dpi Dec 30 08:45:03 it's a catch cry because most of existing displays are low-dpi :) Dec 30 08:45:19 no Dec 30 08:45:31 the catch cry of "wit6h a high dpi screen you can get rid of doing aa" Dec 30 08:45:31 sure you can spot it, but everything's about choices Dec 30 08:46:00 also the vga screen is expensive Dec 30 08:46:00 just saying that if you're making an expensive premium device then a "worse than fr" display might not be very attractive Dec 30 08:46:10 relative to lower res screens Dec 30 08:46:23 does it matter in small production runs? Dec 30 08:46:35 as you yourself said, might as well get the best components Dec 30 08:46:36 the fr's screen is stubby and short too Dec 30 08:46:49 also display is not all about # of pixels Dec 30 08:46:56 its brightness, color reporduction, contrast etc. Dec 30 08:47:07 the fr's screen is not the best Dec 30 08:47:28 being 4:3 Dec 30 08:47:37 it means you either have to make a short stubby device Dec 30 08:47:45 or fill in a lot of device with blank bits Dec 30 08:48:27 but it's available in small quantities? Dec 30 08:48:49 possibly Dec 30 08:49:05 but the screen is not the right one for such devices Dec 30 08:49:32 i'd love one of the 800x480 3" screens the japanese have Dec 30 08:49:35 My OpenMoko automatically got IPv6. Dec 30 08:49:38 but they are impossible to find Dec 30 08:49:44 yeah Dec 30 08:49:50 same with the 640x320 ones nokia are using Dec 30 08:49:50 Well, and IPv6 address and then locked in. Dec 30 08:50:10 the 640x480 means a stubby 4:3 display Dec 30 08:50:12 I'd love IPv6 over GPRS. Dec 30 08:50:17 going for widescreen (or tall) is good Dec 30 08:50:29 its also closer to golden ratios that are more appealing to humans Dec 30 08:50:40 Please don't hack my freerunner: http://www.sixxs.net/tools/traceroute/?pop=noc-6&dpop=other&dest=2001:5a8:4:2cb0:212:cfff:fe8e:e515 Dec 30 08:51:14 just saying that if the only viable option is 272x480 then I'd consider the fr screen as well Dec 30 08:51:29 the screen is not the part that people are complaining about on the fr Dec 30 08:51:45 the modem is. Dec 30 08:51:50 i have considered it Dec 30 08:51:56 and tossed it early on :) Dec 30 08:52:03 the screen is not that bad Dec 30 08:52:09 the case is the problem Dec 30 08:52:21 although I think the case itself looks good Dec 30 08:53:19 I like the case. Dec 30 08:53:34 me too Dec 30 08:53:44 but it takes away fingerfriendly space Dec 30 08:53:44 I dislike the modem mostly, and the MMC/SDHC interface... I wish it had full-sized SDHC Dec 30 08:54:08 I don't care... That doesn't make the Freerunner any less awesome of a development platform Dec 30 08:54:22 development is not everything Dec 30 08:54:32 That's what I use my freerunner for. Dec 30 08:54:41 Honestly, I need a good toolchain for my freerunner... Debian basically replaced that Dec 30 08:54:50 someday people have to start just using it or openmoko will go bankrupt Dec 30 08:54:51 I'd be really happy if the FR took CF Dec 30 08:55:04 but that'll happen when pigs fly.. Dec 30 08:55:30 cf is a dying format Dec 30 08:55:50 only professional cameras and cf->ide things in pc's are using it Dec 30 08:55:55 full sd is alive and kicking Dec 30 08:56:16 nothing wrong with micro-sd Dec 30 08:56:20 but its physically big and thus makes the device big just to plug it in Dec 30 08:56:30 an sd slot does take significant space on a board Dec 30 08:56:36 micro-sd is fine for this kind of thing Dec 30 08:57:11 just make sure that it supports everything and not just the biggest sdhc on the market at manufacturing time Dec 30 08:57:29 thats hard Dec 30 08:57:33 yeah and as µsds are damn cheap nowadays Dec 30 08:57:53 as how can u make sure it supports stuff that doesnt even exist yet - as u cant test! Dec 30 08:57:55 raster, I'd be happy with full sized SD. Dec 30 08:58:10 raster: by doing stuff according to the sdhc specification? Dec 30 08:58:32 n95 supports micro-sdhc's way bigger than they had during the device's development Dec 30 08:58:37 I want to be able to plug in that SDHC expander, or the other crap I have. Dec 30 08:59:10 mps: "doing stuff" is not in the hands of the vendor mostly Dec 30 08:59:25 only in the hands of the supplier Dec 30 08:59:25 (or creator) Dec 30 09:00:00 the device manufacturer gets to choose the component suppliers Dec 30 09:00:11 just make sure to choose wisely :) Dec 30 09:00:58 any progress on #1024 and wsod? Dec 30 09:02:42 often thats not so easy Dec 30 09:02:46 if u want to make somethng open Dec 30 09:02:52 sure Dec 30 09:04:16 just make sure to look at all the options available openly in small quantities and choose the best one Dec 30 09:04:32 instead of taking the first one and trusting that it'll be as good as any Dec 30 09:09:05 and in many cases the problems can be as simple as having an inappropriately sized capacitor at some point Dec 30 09:10:00 "oh it seems to work just fine in our tests with available cards, let's not care that the specification says something different" Dec 30 09:14:52 shenanigans Dec 30 09:16:18 mps: simple? try to find those errors... Dec 30 09:18:07 well the community found many of those on gta01 boards as soon as they got access to the boards/schemas :) Dec 30 09:18:36 would of course be better to have a good hw designer in the first place Dec 30 09:19:34 so you don't say the openmoko people have good hw designers? Dec 30 09:19:58 i might wager so Dec 30 09:21:25 but good ones are expensive and hard to find Dec 30 09:22:43 Defiant-: i wouldn't say they are bad - they were just a bit inexperienced when doing gta01 and gta02 afaik Dec 30 09:25:58 and they don't have the numbers and qa available in big companies Dec 30 09:26:04 bumbl: so there is hope for a better gta03 :) Dec 30 09:26:20 well kind of Dec 30 09:26:26 people want 3g Dec 30 09:26:37 but 3g modems are unaffordable for openmoko Dec 30 09:26:39 which is why it'd been all the more important to get the layouts verified by as many eyes as possible *before* printing any boards :) Dec 30 09:26:40 thats not a problem they can currently fix Dec 30 09:26:54 i know Dec 30 09:27:02 mps: true release early release often Dec 30 09:28:29 the good thing about gta03 will be the new shiny gps chip and the new soc Dec 30 09:28:37 no glamo :) Dec 30 09:28:44 yeah Dec 30 09:30:06 the question is if i am able to justify to buy a new phone Dec 30 09:30:12 but I was surprised to see that I was able to view the 25c3 livestream on my gta02 with debian-mplayer Dec 30 09:33:25 I wonder where raster is planning to find affordable 3g :) Dec 30 09:34:39 secret stash Dec 30 09:34:41 maybe he has some 3g usb stick manufacturer in his backpocket or something Dec 30 09:34:41 :) Dec 30 09:34:52 not quite Dec 30 09:34:55 :) Dec 30 09:35:11 no raster has connections Dec 30 09:35:32 if it's hsdpa/hsupa then it's indeed something quite valuable Dec 30 09:35:50 would actually be possible to compete with the cellphone big guys Dec 30 09:35:51 yes and no Dec 30 09:36:05 a hspa phone would force me to buy a data plan Dec 30 09:36:19 they support the old stuff too Dec 30 09:36:40 but you start to actually get acceptable latencies with hspa Dec 30 09:36:43 yeah but if i had hspa i would want to use it Dec 30 09:37:05 and w/ 3g+gsm you can actually make a phone that works everywhere Dec 30 09:37:07 and data plans are cheap here Dec 30 09:37:16 mps: hsupa/hsdpa Dec 30 09:37:21 w00t Dec 30 09:37:28 where do I sign up Dec 30 09:37:32 haha Dec 30 09:37:46 small module (about 25x30mm) Dec 30 09:37:50 and only 2.5mm thick Dec 30 09:38:07 and price-wise its much less than the competition Dec 30 09:38:41 wonder why openmoko isn't considering that? Dec 30 09:39:22 * bumbl wonders why raster wrote on the mailinglist that 3g is so expensive - sabotage? Dec 30 09:39:25 they might not know about it Dec 30 09:39:33 :p Dec 30 09:39:39 bumbl: it is.. until i found this one Dec 30 09:39:45 (whihc i found after that mail) Dec 30 09:39:52 ah ok Dec 30 09:40:01 until then everythng i found was somewhere $150-$250 Dec 30 09:40:12 just for the chip Dec 30 09:40:39 so you are sure you want to do your own hardware? Dec 30 09:41:39 a umts module i am looking at right now form another vendor is 145euro - if u buy 100+ Dec 30 09:41:54 bumbl: no one is making the right hardware Dec 30 09:42:05 so its diy as a "only choice) Dec 30 09:42:12 hehe yes Dec 30 09:42:23 but 145€ is still expensive Dec 30 09:45:25 get an open source client side GSM implementatio Dec 30 09:47:05 raster: does your "dream phone" include a keyboard? Dec 30 09:47:33 Sargun: BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dec 30 09:47:38 ROTFL Dec 30 09:47:38 hehehehe Dec 30 09:47:42 gigglez Dec 30 09:47:50 bumbl: it'd be nice Dec 30 09:47:55 i'd go a slide-out kbd Dec 30 09:47:59 because although this might complicate things a keyboard is very handy Dec 30 09:48:00 but mechanically that might be a bit much Dec 30 09:48:10 of course if the funding comes through Dec 30 09:48:11 yeah like the g1 does Dec 30 09:48:14 that might not be a problem Dec 30 09:48:25 well i'd do it vertically Dec 30 09:48:29 not landscape mode Dec 30 09:48:33 is sldie down in portrait Dec 30 09:48:50 but pretty much u'll be stuck with chosing landscape or portrait Dec 30 09:48:57 a whole keyboard in portrait mode Dec 30 09:49:01 ? Dec 30 09:49:11 it'd been done before Dec 30 09:49:14 :) Dec 30 09:49:22 raster, yes, I know it's a mobile geeks we dream.. Dec 30 09:49:26 * raster stares at his treo Dec 30 09:49:30 and it wont happen. Dec 30 09:49:33 I just can't imagine it at the moment Dec 30 09:49:48 Sargun: evbne IF it ewas open source Dec 30 09:49:59 u're up for patent licenses out the wazoo Dec 30 09:50:05 and u'd never get it approved Dec 30 09:50:10 http://www.gadgetsonthego.net/pics/treo.gif<- like that but sliding out? Dec 30 09:50:57 yes Dec 30 09:51:01 and well thinner Dec 30 09:51:09 raster, you might get it approved.. if you did some sort of signing. Dec 30 09:51:21 thinner but taller keys Dec 30 09:52:00 so what you lose in horizontal pushspace Dec 30 09:52:06 u make up for in vertical Dec 30 09:52:22 but mechanically kbd is hard Dec 30 09:52:31 yep Dec 30 09:52:41 one would have to buy an existing solution Dec 30 09:52:52 i'd lean to a really nice capacitive touchscreen with multitouch Dec 30 09:53:19 so take the treo kbd Dec 30 09:53:30 cut it down to about 50-60% width Dec 30 09:53:46 (same # of keys just squashed horizontally) Dec 30 09:54:40 also a kbd makes the device thicker Dec 30 09:54:45 and more prone to brekage Dec 30 09:55:00 (if its slide-out) Dec 30 09:55:06 if its fixed (ala a treo/blackberry) Dec 30 09:55:10 you have an easier time Dec 30 09:55:18 but you have to make the thing huge to have a big screen and kbd Dec 30 09:55:25 so u need to give something up Dec 30 09:56:46 raster, isn't the slide-out patented? Dec 30 09:56:55 the treo keyboard is patented. Dec 30 09:57:33 everything is patented Dec 30 09:57:58 your onscreen keyboard + modified default.kbd (keys a bit better grouped) is cool Dec 30 09:58:16 although it can't compete with a true keyboard Dec 30 10:02:44 bumbl: no it cant Dec 30 10:02:58 but in the interest of practicality - kbd may need to take a back-seat for now Dec 30 10:05:29 sure Dec 30 10:06:30 although I know some who haven't bought the freerunner just because it has no hardware keyboard Dec 30 10:07:19 yeah, the keyboard is an issue - especially the default one shipped with om2008.x Dec 30 10:07:56 however there are cool input methods out there like rosetta Dec 30 10:07:59 well the one who is the openmoko designer who made this desicion is a moron Dec 30 10:08:31 fullack. Who is shipping a phone/pda for linux geeks without a keyboard Dec 30 10:09:08 bumbl: a hw keyboard is good Dec 30 10:09:11 it has tactile feedback Dec 30 10:09:13 BUT Dec 30 10:09:17 once createds Dec 30 10:09:20 its fixed Dec 30 10:09:28 its not goign to change Dec 30 10:09:31 u cant change how a key behaves other than it presses Dec 30 10:09:38 the key it outputs is printed on it Dec 30 10:09:41 yeah Dec 30 10:09:42 ie fixed Dec 30 10:09:59 (you can do doing stupid things like remapping it to output different sutff but now its just getting stupid) Dec 30 10:10:16 raster: and? Still you have a always working input method Dec 30 10:10:16 and covering multipel langauges with such a fixed kbd is costly Dec 30 10:10:17 one could give tactile feedback with the help of the vibrator (even if this means that the vibrator wears down faster) Dec 30 10:10:29 and that is what you need on an experimantal device Dec 30 10:10:33 unless u have high enough voluem to do kbd variants (one per country/language/region) Dec 30 10:10:55 an ons-creen kbd (vkbd) is totally flexible Dec 30 10:11:01 and up to the imagination of whoever writes it Dec 30 10:11:17 Defiant-: what if its not experimental? Dec 30 10:11:22 well raster i think there is noone who has anything against qwerty Dec 30 10:12:10 most programmers I know use qwerty even if they have qwertz keyboards Dec 30 10:12:20 raster: thats not the case right now. Gta02 is an experiment, gta03 will also be. Once the base hardware is working and we have basic software you can start changing the input method Dec 30 10:12:39 bumbl: yeah - but also it makes the device much bigger Dec 30 10:12:56 Defiant-: software already works for that stuff Dec 30 10:13:09 raster: no it does not. Dec 30 10:13:21 just some people decide to give you a kbd thats only useful for entering sms's and emails Dec 30 10:13:32 and not much else Dec 30 10:13:35 and make it hard to switch Dec 30 10:13:48 (i'm not going to go into that again) Dec 30 10:14:03 the because openmoko is trying to target the enduser with their distribution with is...well... Dec 30 10:14:12 not yet a good idea Dec 30 10:14:21 not going into it Dec 30 10:14:48 it doesnt change the fact that a keyboard is a mechanical nightmare Dec 30 10:14:56 if u do slide-out to save space Dec 30 10:14:59 its even worse Dec 30 10:15:11 and you have patent problems Dec 30 10:15:16 that once u produce the thing Dec 30 10:15:19 u cant go change it Dec 30 10:15:22 not without high cost Dec 30 10:15:24 hi raster Dec 30 10:15:24 what about bluetooth? Dec 30 10:15:33 (shoudl someone come at u with a patent infrignment suit) Dec 30 10:15:40 bt is no problem Dec 30 10:15:40 or just usb Dec 30 10:15:50 thats one reason why i lean to the no-kbd side Dec 30 10:15:57 as u can add a kbd via bt easily Dec 30 10:16:02 and then it can be big and easy to type with Dec 30 10:16:09 admiral0: hey Dec 30 10:16:46 <[Rui]> or using x2x you just drag your mouse to the side focus on the window and type from your best keyboard :) Dec 30 10:16:55 hahaha Dec 30 10:17:00 at that point Dec 30 10:17:01 "why" Dec 30 10:17:04 you are at your desk Dec 30 10:17:10 use the big screen in front of you! Dec 30 10:17:31 (though what WOULD be cool is the ability to drag a docuemnt u are editing off your desktop onto the phone screen with the mouse Dec 30 10:17:43 and then just pick up the phone and walk out - and continue to edit it Dec 30 10:17:50 or for that matter the web page uwere browsing Dec 30 10:17:54 the email u were working on Dec 30 10:18:01 etc. Dec 30 10:18:01 ) Dec 30 10:18:09 that would be very nice Dec 30 10:18:42 anyway Dec 30 10:18:48 time to make some food Dec 30 10:18:51 munc munch Dec 30 10:22:22 raster: hmm isn't that what surface already does Dec 30 10:22:36 you know that multitouch thing from microsoft Dec 30 10:28:34 ahoi Dec 30 10:28:52 ahoi Dec 30 10:29:56 hi Dec 30 10:54:17 has anyone got GPS working under SHR testing? Dec 30 11:04:08 hey! Dec 30 11:04:27 what is the best firmware for neo now? Dec 30 11:05:10 what defines best? :P Dec 30 11:05:16 gsm(1) or rootfs(2)? (1) latest (2) there is no "best" Dec 30 11:05:28 here's my rundown (I've tested everything) Dec 30 11:05:34 in no particular order Dec 30 11:05:54 Debian FTW Dec 30 11:06:01 with wi-fi and calls Dec 30 11:06:13 Qtopia 4.3.3 (Trolltech's Qtopia, works reliably as a phone, few memory leaks in the media player, generally usable (if all you want is a phone)) Dec 30 11:06:45 I wasn't able to connect to wi-fi with qtopia... Dec 30 11:06:59 do you know anth about this? Dec 30 11:07:00 SHR (Stable Hybrid Release, the community maintained distro, comes around as still being reliable as a phone but with lots of perfect awesomeness) Dec 30 11:07:36 where can I get latest qtopia? Dec 30 11:07:42 Om2008.12 (The latest Openmoko release, nice if you want to see in which direction they're heading, but is useful for perhaps bright rooms at best) Dec 30 11:08:10 in wiki there is only 4.4.2 Dec 30 11:08:15 hi all, does anyone know how to use dbus to read SMS [2008.12] Dec 30 11:08:16 There's Qt Extended (4.4.x release branch) and Qtopia 4.3.x I'd recommend Qtopia over Qte Dec 30 11:08:27 because everything works yep Dec 30 11:08:39 the latest Qtopia can be obtained from Dec 30 11:08:54 http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6&min=0&orderby=titleA&show=10 Dec 30 11:08:58 edje2(there is no frameworkd on 2008.12) Dec 30 11:09:00 this page, but also view the next page Dec 30 11:09:08 (which contains 4.3.3 for GTA02) Dec 30 11:09:31 i like qte but i really like the previous ones ability to have crap like the time clock on the homescreen Dec 30 11:09:57 admiral0: ok, but there are service files for qmail etc ( /opt/Qtopia/services/ ) Dec 30 11:10:18 and why couldnt i find the dialer in qt... only could really call people aready in my phonebook Dec 30 11:10:29 never used them.. i prefer frameworkd Dec 30 11:10:31 world time Dec 30 11:11:11 thanks=)) Dec 30 11:11:15 leavittx, if you haven't tried out SHR yet I'd strongly advise you do, before you settle for something else Dec 30 11:11:35 admiral0: and gsm0710muxd uses dbus-send to obtain a pts. so for gsm0710muxd it does work Dec 30 11:12:08 I avoided it for a while but it's (imo) better than anything else right now, due to the fact that you can still use it as a phone, and there's so much software and everything works and it's just the perfect hybrid :) Dec 30 11:12:12 where can I get binary SHR? Dec 30 11:12:13 didn't know that Dec 30 11:12:16 so in answer to your question, SHR Dec 30 11:12:22 I'll send you to the images I used Dec 30 11:12:33 I'll get you testing and not unstable, for obvious reasons Dec 30 11:12:41 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/ Dec 30 11:12:49 you probably want Dec 30 11:12:51 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Dec 30 11:12:52 and Dec 30 11:12:56 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin Dec 30 11:13:13 i used shr-unstable Dec 30 11:13:15 does shr have tangogps? Dec 30 11:13:21 more interesting Dec 30 11:13:31 yes shr has tangogps Dec 30 11:13:32 thanks a lot, StealthCP! Dec 30 11:13:39 yes it has navit Dec 30 11:13:50 yes it has a functional phone Dec 30 11:13:51 ;) Dec 30 11:14:08 no problem :) the first thing I do when I get help or find out something is start froviding help back, makes me feel good :P Dec 30 11:14:12 well navit and tangogps and the dialer are just about all i use Dec 30 11:14:32 admiral0, out of curiosity, how is unstable? Dec 30 11:14:44 I mean, is it (literally) unstable? Dec 30 11:14:47 well.. it works Dec 30 11:14:58 or have you had success with it? (have you used testing to compare?) Dec 30 11:14:59 admiral0: you are a pr-manager? :> Dec 30 11:15:03 dialer has the new ui Dec 30 11:15:16 define pr-manager Dec 30 11:15:27 admiral0: promotion-manager :p Dec 30 11:15:38 no Dec 30 11:15:39 normally pr = public relations Dec 30 11:15:44 StealthCP: argh oki ^^ Dec 30 11:16:01 and I felt you meant project, so heh Dec 30 11:16:06 that sounds like promotion :p 12:13:39 < admiral0> yes it has navit Dec 30 11:16:07 12:13:51 < admiral0> yes it has a functional phone Dec 30 11:16:14 i have my own distro, but for now SHR is much better Dec 30 11:16:18 and now => YES WE CAN! :D Dec 30 11:16:27 admiral0: which? Dec 30 11:16:32 ok, anyone here (right now) that uses testing? Dec 30 11:16:34 :D Dec 30 11:16:40 telefoninux Dec 30 11:16:46 StealthCP: i use testing Dec 30 11:16:55 have you got GPS on the go yet? Dec 30 11:16:57 telefoninux.projects.openmoko.org Dec 30 11:17:34 StealthCP : u mean elefoninux? Dec 30 11:17:43 no, I mean on SHR testing Dec 30 11:18:02 admiral0: is telefoninux only for debian background or gui? Dec 30 11:18:11 shr testing works fine Dec 30 11:18:12 I had to modify /etc/init.d/fso-gpsd because the syntax was all wrong, and didn't work properly Dec 30 11:18:18 StealthCP: yes of course Dec 30 11:18:23 but even then when gpsd is running it's not been working Dec 30 11:18:32 StealthCP: with no changes - it works Dec 30 11:18:49 PBeck, could you send me your unchanged file? (pastebin?) Dec 30 11:19:03 PBeck:telefoninux is debian mostly recompiled with better cflags and with e17 Dec 30 11:19:05 mom Dec 30 11:19:13 admiral0: ah okay Dec 30 11:21:19 http://nopaste.de/p/aqsRmFGCR StealthCP Dec 30 11:23:03 StealthCP: but is should say - it works for weeks for me - and then no gps-fix anymore - i have no answer :/ Dec 30 11:23:20 StealthCP: only a reflash solved the problem Dec 30 11:28:40 so i go offline now - bye Dec 30 11:33:17 see that's completely different from mine Dec 30 11:34:42 Hello, I just received my freerunner and it won't boot up (the screen shows some green points and get's stucked here). I tried to flash Om 2008.12 (kernel and rootfs) but it won't book from nand boot loader. I can boot from the nor boot loader though... Dec 30 11:36:17 jernst flash qi on nand Dec 30 11:38:22 ok done (from the nor boot menu) Dec 30 11:38:33 then should I reboot to the nand ? Dec 30 11:41:01 hmm I cannot boot into nand anymore it seems Dec 30 11:41:10 jernst, can you get to NOR? Dec 30 11:41:21 when I press power button then aux, the phone vibrates and goes back into nor book menu Dec 30 11:41:31 Sargun: yes Dec 30 11:41:44 U-boot 1.3.2 moko12 Dec 30 11:42:47 Qi does not offer a boot menu Dec 30 11:43:04 you should feel two quick phuts from the vibration Dec 30 11:43:48 StealthCP: I felt the vibration, but then it went back to nor menu Dec 30 11:43:56 interesting Dec 30 11:51:51 hi ...i have installed 2008.12, all is good but omview doesn't show jpg....anyone could help me? Dec 30 11:53:50 I fixed the boot problem, thanks Dec 30 11:54:28 now I cannot place a call because it says Missing SIM altough the SIM seems to be well placed Dec 30 11:54:43 is there some configuration to do or should I check the sim card socket ? Dec 30 11:56:51 jernst: iirc the new gsm firmware can fix that problem. have a look at the wiki about it. Dec 30 11:57:02 hi Dec 30 12:22:12 henk: will try thanks Dec 30 13:12:31 the gsm flash upgrade didn't go as planned... I tried everything on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing Dec 30 13:14:16 it always stays stucks somewhere Dec 30 13:14:27 sometime ****4, other times C------ Dec 30 13:19:19 I think I'll have to return it :-( Dec 30 13:22:16 jernst: Do you know that there's an advanced flashing method (probably involving ROM bootloader of calypso, but i'm not sure)? Dec 30 13:22:49 PaulFertser_: I think that's with -oo instead of -oO Dec 30 13:22:49 jernst: Are you sure you've disabled every app that could want to touch the modem during your flashing? Dec 30 13:23:08 yes I'm using the recommanded fso-console image Dec 30 13:26:52 jernst: that's strange. The instructions worked well for me, exactly as described on the wiki (despite i used my Debian install)... Dec 30 13:27:37 PaulFertser_: could you use your sim card at all before following those instructions ? Dec 30 13:28:36 jernst: yes, i could. We've no 3G sim cards here yet, so that wasn't a problem. But there were many reports about not-working sim-cards, and gsm firmware update solved this issues. Dec 30 13:31:24 jernst: Have you tried to flash an older firmware as described on the wiki? Dec 30 13:33:25 yes I tried v.8 Dec 30 13:35:26 jernst: you may get help from DocScrutinizer2 (Joerg), i think. If he's not too busy at ccc. :) Dec 30 13:36:01 PaulFertser_: thanks, let's hope he can do something ;-) Dec 30 13:36:16 I will try v. 7 downgrade Dec 30 13:36:44 jernst: To get help you probably need to ask him. Probably at #openmoko-cdevel ;) Dec 30 13:45:08 jernst: just a wild guess. Have you tried lowering the baud rate? 57600? Dec 30 13:46:21 yes Dec 30 13:48:05 jernst: And you have no strange messages in dmesg during the update? I'm out of ideas then, sorry. Catch Joerg on irc ;) Dec 30 13:53:50 jernst: Have you tried what Michael described at http://n2.nabble.com/problems-with-calypso-firmware-update-tp1565196p1566012.html ? Dec 30 13:55:14 http://straseni.kompletne.cz/baf.php?page=straseni&kolo=7&od=62 ROFL ! xD Dec 30 13:55:45 PaulFertser_: I tried something similar and the flash process always starts here (but it doesn't finish) Dec 30 13:56:03 PaulFertser_: I will use the exact same command as Michael and let you know the difference Dec 30 14:01:59 http://straseni.kompletne.cz/baf.php?page=straseni&kolo=7&od=62 ROFL ! xD Dec 30 14:24:26 morning Dec 30 14:25:31 afternoon Dec 30 14:38:34 Tig Dec 30 14:39:06 Dave! Dec 30 14:41:45 :P Dec 30 14:51:17 right time to set up remoko and mythtv :) Dec 30 15:07:24 eig wollten wir ja weg Dec 30 15:07:35 oh sry Dec 30 15:07:46 wrong window ^^ Dec 30 15:13:54 * think-free is away: Ausente por el momento Dec 30 15:14:02 * think-free is back. Dec 30 15:36:24 It's quite, is everybody in bed with openvibe? Dec 30 15:37:03 openvibe? Dec 30 15:37:05 on my crotch as i type :P Dec 30 15:37:20 keeps me relaxed Dec 30 15:37:35 nice:) Dec 30 15:37:47 Probably the most useful thing i've seen so far. Dec 30 15:37:57 Defiant-: the gnu/vibrator Dec 30 15:39:32 wtfP Dec 30 15:39:33 ! Dec 30 15:39:39 lawks Dec 30 15:39:40 don't need that ;) Dec 30 15:57:44 jonkristian, just made a minor enhancement to that wiki page :) Dec 30 15:58:33 go moko go moko go! Dec 30 15:58:48 ronny, it's you! Dec 30 16:00:48 i searching a image for vbox ose for demo dokumentation how can i donload ? Dec 30 16:02:50 badzero, I assume you mean : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_an_emulator_available_for_Openmoko.3F Dec 30 16:03:43 yes emulation but worke this in vbox? Dec 30 16:04:15 Isnt vbox an x86 emulator? Dec 30 16:04:29 what about qemu Dec 30 16:05:00 yes vbox emulate x86 Dec 30 16:05:17 badzero, openmoko runs on the ARM processor Dec 30 16:05:30 so you need an ARM emulator Dec 30 16:05:44 such as qemu Dec 30 16:05:52 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu Dec 30 16:06:27 and is there kernel for gta02fake machine? or newer machine directly for gta02? Dec 30 16:06:47 In svn is still only 02fake and patch for some revision of andy-2.6.26 kernel.. :( Dec 30 16:11:47 ok thats litelbit komplicadet for me with pach wath ever Dec 30 16:23:17 jernst: i might have missed your status report. Is your problem solved? Dec 30 16:43:10 How are you gentlemen? Dec 30 16:43:13 and ronny Dec 30 17:07:39 hi all Dec 30 17:08:12 all say hay Dec 30 17:08:36 trying to import a few hundred addresses from jPilot vcf export to the QT image, I run into the problem of having UTF-8 chars in my version 3.0 file. How do I convert that cvf file to version 2.1? Dec 30 17:26:15 Cervajz :o Dec 30 17:26:25 Dave: ? :) Dec 30 17:26:57 Dave: What's happanned? Dec 30 17:32:22 Hi hi hi Dec 30 17:32:32 you still have those images up on cervajz ftp? ^^ Dec 30 17:34:00 Dave: Hello, no I don't have? Do you want it? Dec 30 17:35:10 I recall someone uploading it to your ftp, I believe. Dec 30 17:35:25 I remembered, but then I could never remember the spelling of your name :P Dec 30 17:36:00 Dave: I have Om2007 Om2008.8 2008.9 2008.12 Dec 30 17:36:47 Dave: Android, FAD, Qtopia and FSO too Dec 30 17:37:09 Dave: I can very simple move it into my server, if you want ;) Dec 30 17:49:48 just wrote my first python/gtk program Dec 30 17:50:04 a vibrator application for the freerunner =) Dec 30 17:50:18 supports fast, medium and low vibration Dec 30 17:50:53 moritz, would this be openvibe? :) Dec 30 17:51:02 also a good name Dec 30 17:51:11 so far its called NeoVibrate Dec 30 17:51:41 does it have hints for adult usage? Dec 30 17:51:46 no Dec 30 17:51:50 moritz: What Tig| is referring to is that one was released earlier this month with that name :) Dec 30 17:51:53 ah ther is one called openvibe already : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenVibe Dec 30 17:51:55 oh Dec 30 17:51:59 damn Dec 30 17:52:25 there is something very telling about the first apps that people are writing for the FR :P Dec 30 17:52:35 a bit competition isn't a bad thing, i guess Dec 30 17:53:03 Cervajz: YES :D Dec 30 17:53:09 Let me steal :] Dec 30 17:53:13 moritz or a bit cooperation :p Dec 30 17:53:26 :-) Dec 30 17:53:54 if just my fucking gps would work Dec 30 17:53:55 Dave: What concrete do you want? Dec 30 17:54:20 tschaka, so you are suggesting cooperating with vibrators? :P Dec 30 17:54:29 concrete? Dec 30 17:54:31 Tig| haha :D Dec 30 17:54:35 more like image/kernels! Dec 30 17:55:18 tschaka, actully it could have been worse, it could have been a split of the first codebase, then you would have forking vibrators :P Dec 30 17:55:44 o_o Dec 30 17:55:48 Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Dec 30 17:55:48 Forking codebases can be a pain in the butt. Dec 30 17:55:55 and a retarded idea Dec 30 17:55:59 moritz, GPS problems? Dec 30 17:56:21 SpeedEvil, forking vibrators can be a pain in the Dec 30 17:56:27 lol? Dec 30 17:57:13 Tig|: yes. so far i did not have gps working once. Dec 30 17:57:19 ONE CANNOT SIMPLY TANGOGPS THEIR WAY INTO MORDOR Dec 30 17:57:39 Yes you can. Dec 30 17:57:57 You just need a GPS that supports latitude, longitude, altitude, and imaginary components. Dec 30 17:58:17 :D Dec 30 17:58:18 SpeedEvil, the FR one supports imaginary movement :) Dec 30 17:58:34 you can be standing still and it will be all over the place :) Dec 30 17:58:55 what's the recommended way for "fixing up" permissions of entries beneath /sys? Dec 30 17:59:12 err - no Dec 30 17:59:16 oops Dec 30 17:59:24 moritz, I have had no problems with it here on any recent image, it works best on FSO based images IME Dec 30 17:59:26 simply adding commands to /etc/rc.local? Dec 30 17:59:28 anyone dutch in here? Dec 30 17:59:56 Tig|: right now i have Debian on my SD card and that OM 2008.12 image in flash. never got a fix. Dec 30 18:00:09 i mean: a "gps fix" Dec 30 18:00:31 Tig|: as far as i know Debian is based on that FSO thing. Dec 30 18:01:34 moritz, ok first things are the obvious you are pointing it upwards Dec 30 18:01:41 Is the Neo Freerunner stable enough to use it daily? I've read battery-life is max. 3 hrs. under constant use, is this true? Dec 30 18:01:59 No, yes, maybe. Dec 30 18:02:07 Tig|: sorry? Dec 30 18:02:32 you are not lying the phone down while waiting for a fix are you? Dec 30 18:03:48 well, several times i tried to have my FR lying next to an open window. several times i was carrying it outside while walking around. Dec 30 18:03:53 SpeedEvil: sure? Dec 30 18:05:19 shall i throw it into the air while waiting for a fix? :) Dec 30 18:05:47 imme-emosol: yes Dec 30 18:05:56 moritz, hmm most odd. it works here, takes a while to get the first fix though Dec 30 18:06:28 imme-emosol: it's not really suitable for a day-day phone by any other than the insane, it can last as little as 3-4 hours unplugged, and the actual battery life depends on distribution. Dec 30 18:07:34 SpeedEvil: But the 3-4 hours unplugged is the only reason for it not being suitable for a day-day-phone, or is there more to that? Dec 30 18:07:59 there's more. Dec 30 18:08:24 Unfixable buzz on some users phones, needing hardware fix, and suspend problems at the moment. Dec 30 18:08:54 the phone stack is very basic on some distributions Dec 30 18:09:24 SpeedEvil: hardware fix is simple. And what suspend problems are you talking about? Dec 30 18:10:31 PaulFertser: it's simple in some ways yes but it's bit tricky since it is hardware stuff :) Dec 30 18:11:12 lindi-: people seem to be _too_ afraid of any hardware stuff. Therefore they tend to over-complicate problems. Dec 30 18:11:53 PaulFertser: yes i am afraid of breaking it :) Dec 30 18:12:55 lindi-: i can't believe there exists a place in a civilised world where you can't find a guy who does SMT rework. Dec 30 18:13:56 lindi-: i had my tooth fixed today. Doesn't seem to be much trickier than fixing buzz on FR ;) Dec 30 18:15:34 PaulFertser: sure Dec 30 18:15:46 PaulFertser: but it's not a matter of apt-get install, i mean, you need to talk to people IRL :) Dec 30 18:16:14 lindi-: that can be hard for FR owners, indeed :) Dec 30 18:16:41 paulproteus: sure Dec 30 18:16:49 PaulFertser: it's 'simple' in terms of rework. Dec 30 18:17:09 SpeedEvil: in what terms it's hard then? Dec 30 18:17:18 PaulFertser: would you buy a phone that needed a hardware fix that will not be warrantied if the guy screws it up and kills your phone? Dec 30 18:17:46 SpeedEvil: if it's the only phone that can give me freedom, yes. Dec 30 18:18:07 Fair enough. Dec 30 18:18:15 PaulFertser: bluetooth headset can workaround buzz too Dec 30 18:18:21 It's _definately_ not a 'normal user' option though. Dec 30 18:18:45 SpeedEvil: actually, i did. I don't think i can really count on warranty from koolu, as my phone was bought and transfered by a proxy that's already non-existant. Dec 30 18:19:29 Having said that, I'd expect fixed phones to start hitting the OM store real soon now. Dec 30 18:19:33 If this is fact or not... Dec 30 18:20:40 SpeedEvil: the question is what is with the European freerunner users which all have 2 years warranty Dec 30 18:21:06 bumbl: consumer legislation in some places requires 2 year warranties Dec 30 18:21:29 If however, the backer of that guarantee has gone bankrupt, ... Dec 30 18:21:47 yeah and the buzz rework falls into the guarantee Dec 30 18:21:49 bumbl: is it guaranteed by the resellers? Then ask them. What do they say now? Dec 30 18:21:54 (as PaulFertser implied - I'm haven't checked) Dec 30 18:23:08 so openmoko or the resellers will have to pay for it Dec 30 18:23:32 Only if the reseller is in buisness, or has taken out insurance for that event. Dec 30 18:23:32 pay for what? Dec 30 18:23:39 pay for the rework Dec 30 18:23:48 bumbl: i don't remember openmoko having guaranteed any kind of warranty. So, i guess, it's provided by the retailers. Dec 30 18:23:59 There was a 15 day DOA warranty Dec 30 18:24:02 what rework? Dec 30 18:24:10 orzing: to fix the GSM buzz Dec 30 18:24:21 orzo=orzing? Dec 30 18:24:24 SpeedEvil: that's not exactly warranty we're talking about though. Dec 30 18:24:27 no Dec 30 18:24:32 PaulFertser: openmoko gave the European resellers a kind of warranty Dec 30 18:25:02 afair Dec 30 18:25:05 bumbl: was it publicly announced? I can't remember seeing anything about it. Dec 30 18:25:15 PaulFertser: nah Dec 30 18:25:22 bumbl: as I understand, no. YYou caan't sell consumers stuff with less than a 2 year waarranty. Dec 30 18:25:32 it wasn't Dec 30 18:25:37 Insome parts of europe. Dec 30 18:25:39 SpeedEvil: not in the EU Dec 30 18:25:45 I don't think there has ever been a clear statement by OM regarding warranties Dec 30 18:25:57 Tig|: sure there has. Dec 30 18:26:09 MichaelShiloh: Are you still with OM? Dec 30 18:26:11 Tig|: 15 day DOA, it came on a beermat with the device. Dec 30 18:26:20 well apart from the DoA one Dec 30 18:26:43 my beer mat did not say anything about that, it just had a proverb on it Dec 30 18:27:01 oh and a thank your for freeing your phone or something Dec 30 18:27:12 And a unicorn. Dec 30 18:27:45 and a cat toy Dec 30 18:31:37 yeah Dec 30 18:31:52 actually i found the packaging of the freerunner really nice Dec 30 18:32:14 I have no complaints at all as to the packaging. Dec 30 18:32:15 bumbl: really? Dec 30 18:32:28 same here I thought the packaging was good Dec 30 18:32:35 I got my freeruner in a 50x80x80 or something package Dec 30 18:32:36 is openmoko reworking the hardware to elliminate the buzz? Dec 30 18:32:46 orzo: no Dec 30 18:32:58 in it was a smaller package in which the the freeuner package was Dec 30 18:33:59 Defiant-: well I got a black box with green thing around it Dec 30 18:34:08 and in it the freerunner + a gift card Dec 30 18:34:20 everything looking very good Dec 30 18:34:46 i especially liked the paper notes with the logo of "Golden Delicious" Dec 30 18:35:08 if i recall correctly, that's a sort of apples. Dec 30 18:36:02 i orderd by pulster so i didn't get that one Dec 30 18:36:35 although on the long term it would have been better to order @ gol del or trisoft Dec 30 18:41:44 what's a 3g network Dec 30 18:41:46 heh Dec 30 18:41:54 my sim says 3g on it, and it works Dec 30 18:42:08 orzo: they're backward compatible Dec 30 18:42:11 3g sim cards work with 3g and 2g Dec 30 18:42:18 oh Dec 30 18:42:36 :) Dec 30 18:49:54 Any idea how to disable the mouse cursor in Qt apps? Dec 30 18:52:29 thrashold : yes, wait Dec 30 18:52:38 i'm looking for it Dec 30 18:53:06 ->setCursor(QCursor(Qt::BlankCursor)); Dec 30 18:53:18 think-free: Thank you very much :) Dec 30 18:53:22 ;) Dec 30 18:53:39 * think-free is away Dec 30 18:53:44 * think-free is back Dec 30 18:54:12 * think-free is away Dec 30 19:04:04 Hello, world! Dec 30 19:04:14 hi there Dec 30 19:04:45 So what amazing advances have we made since yesterday? Who's got my stable kernel? Dec 30 19:05:06 C'mon, someone give me the 3D mouse program. Dec 30 19:05:09 :P Dec 30 19:05:14 are there any datasheets available on the wireless? Dec 30 19:05:44 Has someone got me a WiFi GUI that supports static IPs yet? Heheh Dec 30 19:32:26 i guess thats a NO Dec 30 19:49:03 Yeah, I guess not. Dec 30 19:50:31 you could always get your DHCP server to issue the same one based on the MAC address Dec 30 19:51:15 Tig|: I have no DHCP server. :) Dec 30 19:51:31 The router doesn't send it. Dec 30 19:52:01 odd, is there not even one on the AP ? Dec 30 19:52:37 There is, but I'm behind a wireless repeater, and it won't send past that. A bug known to that model, apparently. Dec 30 19:52:52 ah Dec 30 19:53:05 Fortunately, I know everything I need to to configure manually. Dec 30 19:53:44 But it's a real pain to type it all into terminal on the FR, when SSH isn't possible. Dec 30 19:54:00 create a shell script - less typing. Dec 30 19:54:06 bung it all a script Dec 30 19:54:10 call it a.sh :) Dec 30 19:54:33 Heheh Dec 30 19:54:39 True enough Dec 30 19:56:07 SpeedEvil: So, I'm no developer, but I do program oo-php and I only use ubuntu on my own machines, do *you* think I am insane enough to try to use the FR as my day2day-phone? Dec 30 19:57:29 imme-emosol, it is less your linux skills more your willingness to miss calls / text messages have a running battle with battery and suspend issues and are willing to lose your contacts and sms each time you reflash every week or so Dec 30 19:58:17 Ehh? Contacts and SMS are kept on SIM. Dec 30 19:58:21 Reflash won't lose 'em. Dec 30 19:58:50 Tig|: okay, that's do-able. But will this piece of hardware be stable in the end some day, or will I probably have to buy new hardware? Dec 30 19:59:26 GTA03 will probably save the world. But until then, we work to perfect GTA02. :P Dec 30 19:59:50 well the hardware is capable of being stable (after the buzz rework) it is more your patience while it is all being sorted Dec 30 19:59:57 Honestly, I see nothing serious wrong with the hardware. Dec 30 20:00:31 I am very patient for stuff being sorted, I am however not so patient about ordering a FR. :P My current mobile-phone is falling apart you see... Dec 30 20:00:41 Heheh Dec 30 20:00:54 If you are thinking of getting a FR I would also get a dirt cheap basic phone too to have as a back up Dec 30 20:01:01 FR is my first phone. I still don't have anyone to call or be called by, but I love the phone. :P Dec 30 20:01:32 Tig|: backup for calling people? Dec 30 20:01:55 or for being called Dec 30 20:02:29 Hmmm, I think the people that want to call me will have to be as patient as me for things to get sorted out. Bad luck for them. ghehe. Dec 30 20:02:40 Heheh' Dec 30 20:02:53 basically you will be playing with it and breaking it from time to time (even when it is working) so you may want a backup phone while you are spending ages messing about with it Dec 30 20:03:14 Bah, just keep a backup flash handy at all times. :) Dec 30 20:03:30 Oh, a backup battery would be good too. Dec 30 20:03:45 * Digital_Pioneer needs one of those... Dec 30 20:03:52 'nother question... qt or om? Dec 30 20:03:57 SHR Dec 30 20:04:15 Digital_Pioneer: I get an extra battery for nothing I order before 15 January. :) Dec 30 20:04:34 imme-emosol: OK, have them send it to me. Dec 30 20:04:37 I personally think SHR, SMS is a bit flaky Dec 30 20:04:47 Agreed, but I don't use SMS. Dec 30 20:04:53 Digital_Pioneer: You funny... Dec 30 20:05:00 :) Dec 30 20:05:21 SHR, no screenies? :P Dec 30 20:06:21 http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/wiki/Screenshots Dec 30 20:07:47 hm a tid iPhoney ... looks okay. Dec 30 20:08:12 But anyway, where I am ordering they are only offering to put om2008 or qt on it before they ship it to me... Dec 30 20:08:41 reflashing a FR is not hard Dec 30 20:08:48 and you will get used to it Dec 30 20:08:57 very used to it Dec 30 20:08:58 'kay. :D Dec 30 20:09:16 So the debug-board will probably be handy as well right? Dec 30 20:09:48 unless you are doing hardware dev or low level programming dev you will not need one Dec 30 20:11:01 imme-emosol: Yeah, a word to the wise: always have a up-to-speed backup flash handy. :) Dec 30 20:11:27 Also, check out Neotool. Nice GUI someone put together for flashing, backing up, etc. OM phones. Dec 30 20:14:13 And suddenly I realize, whilst looking at the openmoko-wiki, what am I whining about on IRC? If something goes wrong, I can read the wiki, I can go to IRC, the problem will be fixed. There is absolutely no need to hesitate. :D Dec 30 20:14:42 Yes, the wiki is very useful. :) Dec 30 20:14:49 Digital_Pioneer: You're remarks have been analogly stored, thanks. Dec 30 20:14:57 LOL Dec 30 20:15:51 question, is this echo on calling issue on every distribution? and does the gsm stop working after x hours on every distribution, too? Dec 30 20:19:16 the echo on calls is fixed in 2008.12 Dec 30 20:22:34 oh, thanks, nice :) Dec 30 20:24:40 So, will it erase my sim or just the flash? Dec 30 21:02:27 I don't understand... My sim, will it be safe inside the FR or might it `crash`? Dec 30 21:03:47 eh? I have never removed my SIM before flashing Dec 30 21:04:14 flashing only effects the phone memory not the sim Dec 30 21:04:24 there shouldn't be anything there to fry it... oh, I suppose sufficiently wonky software could lock it up by trying the wrong pin and puk a number of times but I haven't had any do that yet ;] Dec 30 21:04:28 yeah Dec 30 21:04:54 the sim's nothing to do with flashing Dec 30 21:09:21 the community update said that 2008.12 will be the last ASU release... what are they switching to after that? Dec 30 21:09:46 FSO Dec 30 21:09:50 Something else new and untried: it is called "paroli" Dec 30 21:10:10 It sounds like a funny-shaped pasta to me. Dec 30 21:10:21 mwester: ah, that's what they call as the frontend of the attempt nowadays Dec 30 21:10:56 I thought the backend was going to be FSO and they were going to use paroli instead of the qt phone suite Dec 30 21:11:13 Yep. They'll be use FSO for the framework, so unlike the previous attempts, this time it might be that Openmoko *cannot* screw it up as badly! :P Dec 30 21:11:40 * Tig| puts that quote on a t-shirt Dec 30 21:12:11 Okay, thanks mjr and Tig| ... Hmmm the PUK, I'll go through my papers, 'cause I'll probably need it... Dec 30 21:12:14 But I still think that a year from today, it will be Android, FSO/SHR, and possibly (but unlikely as they seem to have fallen asleep) Nokia/Trolltech with Qt Extended. Dec 30 21:12:45 I think FSO/SHR is clearly the one that will do what most people expected of the device. :) Dec 30 21:13:05 mwester: What if OM starts to push on FSO team to deliver features and do it fast etc? Then i guess they can easily screw FSO as well. Dec 30 21:13:08 mwester: I afraid Qtext department is needing more manpower Dec 30 21:13:15 does FSO have the ability to import contacts from a vcf or text file? Dec 30 21:13:25 PaulFertser: Mickey will beat OM back into submission once again ;) Dec 30 21:13:26 no Dec 30 21:13:55 Tm_T: Qtext department is needing more independence from paying customers. Dec 30 21:13:57 hajmola, not at the moment, FSO is more of a testing image for the framework Dec 30 21:14:03 Tm_T: I think you are right, but as long as the development effort is not a community effort, they will have few volunteers. Dec 30 21:15:55 Tm_T: lpotter told me that the fixes developed in OM during ASU debugging were non-portable and therefore not accepted. And in an e-mail to the community mailing list he stated that they don't disclose many parts of Qtext due to NDA's with customers. That closeness is exactly the reason OM's fixes were not portable. One just can't guess what they're hiding. Dec 30 21:17:37 mwester: I know Dec 30 21:18:00 PaulFertser: oh I know that Dec 30 21:21:30 I read this at the openmoko wiki. Can someone explain further? "In other words: if your existing router and desktop have addresses 192.168.0.(something) changing them to e.g. 192.168.1.(something) might save you a lot of troubleshooting later." Dec 30 21:22:42 Does that mean that if I set my laptop's IP as 192.168.1.x and gateway's as 192.168.1.x, it makes configuration easier as Neo is on 192.168.0.202? Dec 30 21:23:14 king, yes Dec 30 21:24:24 Tig|,And what if I have my laptop as 192.168.4.x and my router as 192.168.4.x. Does that also make configuration equally easy, or do I require my gateway and desktop to be on 192.168.1.x? Dec 30 21:24:47 king does not matter Dec 30 21:24:54 Tig|, My understanding is that the only thing I should care about is that my laptop and gateway shouldn't be in the 192.168.0.x range. Is that right? Dec 30 21:25:02 king that is correct Dec 30 21:25:56 basically your laptop will be on both networks so you want them on different ranges Dec 30 21:26:49 Tig|, You mean Neo and the gateway to be on different ranges? The laptop is the binding thread, can it be on any range (that is neo's or the gateways) or should it be on the gateway's range for easier configuration? Dec 30 21:28:03 the neo should be on the 192.168.0.x range and you want your normal network on something else Dec 30 21:28:39 Tig|, Does my laptop and gateway need to be on a similar range? Or can they be different? Dec 30 21:28:47 so your USB connection on the laptop should be 192.168.0.x and your ethernet / wifi should be different Dec 30 21:29:15 your wifi/ethernet connection on your laptop should be on the same range as your gateway Dec 30 21:29:24 or you will lose your net access :) Dec 30 21:30:17 Tig|, What I understand as being in the 'same range' is being in the same series with just the last bit different, like 192.168.1.x. If my laptop has 192.168.1.x and my gateway has 192.168.4.x ip. Are they still considered to be on the same range? Dec 30 21:30:33 *in Dec 30 21:31:29 right, set your gateway to be 192.168.1.1 and your laptop to 192.168.1.2 and it will be fine :) or let your gateway assign an IP via DHCP Dec 30 21:32:22 if your laptop is in the 192.168.1.x range and the gateway is in the 192.168.4.x range then they are in different ranges and it will not work Dec 30 21:32:44 Tig|, Oh, that addresses my query. Dec 30 21:32:59 no problem :) Dec 30 21:33:46 Tig|, Okay now I set my laptop and gateway to 192.168.1.x range. I am on ubuntu and I am able to log in via ssh into the Neo. I can ping my laptop from the ssh shell of the Neo but my router, outside world is not visible. Dec 30 21:34:02 *from the neo Dec 30 21:34:08 right you probably don't have a DNS server set up on the Neo Dec 30 21:34:33 can you ping 66.249.91.104 from the neo Dec 30 21:34:37 Tig|, I am pinging the internal IP of my gateway from the neo. That doesn't need a DNS server. Dec 30 21:34:40 Tig|, no. Dec 30 21:34:55 right are you following the instructions on the wiki Dec 30 21:36:12 try this Dec 30 21:36:14 Tig|, I am trying to follow them the best I can, specifically the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking page. But I am not able to understand the iptables part. Dec 30 21:36:45 ok lets work through it :) Dec 30 21:37:24 Tig|, Thanks :) Dec 30 21:37:28 Tig|, I am here, iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 Dec 30 21:37:30 sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Dec 30 21:37:30 ip addr add 192.168.0.200/24 dev usb0 Dec 30 21:37:33 what you are doing is using IP tables to pass the traffic along from the freerunner to the gateway :) Dec 30 21:37:50 king : you need to either put sudo before each of those commands Dec 30 21:37:59 Tig|, alright... Dec 30 21:38:04 or use the command sudo -s Dec 30 21:38:08 first Dec 30 21:38:14 Tig|, I have not executed these yet. I need to understand what they are. Dec 30 21:38:28 they don't need modifications to work Dec 30 21:38:45 Could you talk about the first line -s 192.168.0.0/24? Does that equal 255.255.0.0? Dec 30 21:38:47 the first one is the one that tells iptables to pass the traffic Dec 30 21:39:40 basically what it is saying is that it should allow and route traffic for all data coming from the 192.168.0.x network Dec 30 21:39:47 which is what the freerunner is on Dec 30 21:39:54 king: "/24" = 255.255.255.0. The number after the "/" is the number of "1" bits in the netmask (so "/8" = 255.0.0.0). Dec 30 21:39:57 Alright, simple enough till now, I get it. Dec 30 21:40:14 mmontour, so bigger the bit number smaller the network. Dec 30 21:40:49 Tig|, Could you talk about the last line 'ip addr add...usb0'? Dec 30 21:40:52 king, the /24 is CIDR Dec 30 21:41:17 Tig|, Right, I am good with that part :) Dec 30 21:41:27 the last line simply adds the 192.168.0.200 address on the USB port Dec 30 21:41:42 basically putting a network connection on the end of the USB cable Dec 30 21:42:15 Tig|, ok... I can ping the google.com from Neo's ssh shell now. Dec 30 21:42:19 but the clever part is that that connction is on the 192.168.0.x range which we have already told IPtables that we want to let through Dec 30 21:42:36 Tig|, How would I change the name server's in Neo's /etc/resolv.conf? I can't execute gedit / vim on the ssh shell. Dec 30 21:42:58 vi is available Dec 30 21:43:09 Tig|, I don't think I am at that level to appreciate the beauty of the commands. It is just like calculus :( Dec 30 21:43:27 vi is similar to vim Dec 30 21:43:47 but if you can ping www.google.com you have a working nameserver already Dec 30 21:44:41 Tig|, I just needed to put in other public dns server's, not the opendns ones that come by default as my school uses opendns's dns side filtering. Dec 30 21:44:50 Tig|, Its done now. Dec 30 21:45:02 If I reboot my machine and reconnect the neo, will I have to execute all the commands again? Dec 30 21:45:41 ah right then, rm /etc/resolve.conf && echo nameserver dns.server.address > /etc/resolv.conf Dec 30 21:45:42 :) Dec 30 21:45:55 king: yes Dec 30 21:46:46 Tig|, Ah, all of them? Specifically, ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0, followed by the three iptables related commands above? Is that all? Dec 30 21:47:28 you only need those three lines Dec 30 21:47:42 Not the ifconfig usb0 lines? Dec 30 21:48:11 the last line does the same as the ifconfig line Dec 30 21:48:32 Tig|, stupid me. Yes. Dec 30 21:48:44 just slightly different ways of doing it :) Dec 30 21:49:02 king, not stupid it was a valid question :) Dec 30 21:49:16 Tig|, I am using Om2008.12 on the Neo, When I go to installer and select any of the categories (eg. Maps), I don't get a list of applications to click. Do I have to update the package list and all through the ssh shell? Doesn't the phone do it? Dec 30 21:49:42 Tig|, You have been very encouraging. Kindly tell me when I get on your nerves :) Dec 30 21:49:48 can't help you there, I would have thought you could do it through the GUI I am running SHR here :) Dec 30 21:50:02 is there not an Update button at the bottom of the app Dec 30 21:50:46 Tig|, there is I pressed update, it becomes highlighted 'green' and the title changes to update packages. It doesn't 'do' anything that I can see. Dec 30 21:51:56 Tig|, I think the update, updates packages, could you point me in the right direction, to get the package list so that all the categories inside the installer actually display the software available? Dec 30 21:52:04 Dave: thousands of hackers here. OMG Dec 30 21:52:16 erk, I don't have the package manager handy here so not sure Dec 30 21:52:28 Tig|: how's video/sound playback on shr now? Dec 30 21:52:29 Update usually updates the list of available packages Dec 30 21:52:46 Im going on a trainride on friday, would be cool to bring some videos:) Dec 30 21:52:51 Upgrade usually upgrades installed packages Dec 30 21:53:33 Tig|, Right... But I don't see anything happen on the screen. I will have to trawl the wiki. Dec 30 21:53:37 jonkristian, not tried video recently but have used it to listen to last.fm around the house (albiet quietly) Dec 30 21:54:27 Tig|: so you even got wireless working then? Dec 30 21:54:38 yeah out of the box Dec 30 21:54:42 What are you using? testing/unstable? Dec 30 21:55:00 testing I think Dec 30 21:55:16 gah, i wish i could get wireless running Dec 30 21:55:26 works fine here onto a WPA PSK network Dec 30 21:55:55 last time i tried it did register on the router, it got ip, but disconnected like a split second after. Dec 30 21:56:13 yeah, got WPA PSK aswell Dec 30 21:56:20 did you use mofi for it? Dec 30 21:56:32 Tig|, Would the usb-hotplug script automate the process of making a lan with the neo over usb, and allowing it to connect to my gateway? Dec 30 21:56:35 I refashed the other day with the latest images from the shr.bearstech site and worked out the box, it has worked out the box each time with SHR I have been very impressed onto to different networks too Dec 30 21:56:52 jonkristian, yes using mofi Dec 30 21:57:30 Tig|, Is SHR more feature complete or FDOM? What would be the different user-case scenarios for both? Dec 30 21:57:44 king, possibly I have not tried it. I just made a script with those three line in it and run it each time :) Dec 30 21:57:46 I just flashed these, shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 from the 16th and uImage from the 14th Dec 30 21:57:54 Tig|, :) Dec 30 21:58:21 Tig|: sound is pretty bad out of the box Dec 30 21:58:45 king, SHR is a different kettle of fish to FDOM, it is based on the FSO image Dec 30 21:59:33 SHR is based on the FSO image? I thought it was what the community forked into with one of the Om2007 versions. Dec 30 21:59:55 nope Dec 30 22:00:22 Tig|, So SHR is bleeding edge, not outdated glued up stuff like FDOM? Is that a distinctionL Dec 30 22:01:04 originally it was going to be the 2007 apps on top of the FSO framework then because the 2007 apps needed too much work to get them running on FSO then they started to replace them all with new software Dec 30 22:01:18 but this is better explained on the SHR site Dec 30 22:02:18 SHR is bleeding edge, FDOM is just the 2008.x image with more preinstalled apps and a couple of patches Dec 30 22:02:43 but you are better off reading the project pages for each to really understand what they are all about Dec 30 22:03:00 Tig|, I am still stuck at getting a list of applications in the installer in Om 2008.12. The wiki page says as soon as I launch installer it refreshes the package list. See: Dec 30 22:03:26 This is force update via ssh: root@om-gta02:/etc# opkg update Dec 30 22:03:26 Collected errors: Dec 30 22:03:26 * Could not obtain administrative lock Dec 30 22:03:44 ah that is because the package manager backend is still running] Dec 30 22:04:05 Tig|, I stopped it from within the interface. Do I need to kill the backend? Dec 30 22:04:07 Tig|: circular reference -- the SHR website says to ask in IRC for more info ;) Dec 30 22:04:29 almien, doh! Dec 30 22:04:56 king, run : killall packagekit Dec 30 22:05:16 Tig|, no process killed Dec 30 22:05:18 then you will be able to do an opkg update Dec 30 22:05:34 bugger I can't remember what it is called Dec 30 22:05:38 Tig|, OK... It is updating. Dec 30 22:05:51 Tig|, I simply did opkg ugdate. Dec 30 22:06:10 cool Dec 30 22:06:41 Tig|, I have one more question. Would you tell me how to put the modules archive in the right place? Dec 30 22:06:57 Tig|, Do I extract it to /lib/modules/*? Dec 30 22:07:16 eh you don't need the modules archive unless you are running it from SD Dec 30 22:08:22 ie dual booting and running a second image from the SD card Dec 30 22:08:39 this is straange Dec 30 22:08:54 Tig|, I am thinking of using FDOM. It uses the standard mwester kernel from here, http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels. Don't I also need to extract the modules given in the same page? They say I need it for full functionality. Dec 30 22:09:00 the FR got 10.0.0.5 however it's not online, but i can ping it from my laptop Dec 30 22:09:10 the router is showing that it's offline Dec 30 22:10:05 jonkristian, have you got MAC locking or filtering turned on at the router? Dec 30 22:10:10 can not ssh Dec 30 22:10:22 Tig|: no, it shouldnt lock/filter Dec 30 22:10:38 man this is weird, but it's one step closer Dec 30 22:10:38 jonkristian, by default SSH will not listen on the wifi connection Dec 30 22:10:49 only on the USB connection Dec 30 22:10:50 any way to determin if it's actually the fr? Dec 30 22:11:09 i mean, the router is showing nothing, but i can ping the ip Dec 30 22:11:41 can you ping the FR from the router? Dec 30 22:12:26 no Dec 30 22:12:30 tried via telnet now Dec 30 22:13:17 this is weirding me out, lool Dec 30 22:13:20 Tig|, the okpg update process enden with * Failed to download http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/om-gta02/Packages.sig, error 404 Dec 30 22:13:38 Tig|, three other similar messages appeared also. Dec 30 22:14:01 and can you ping the router from the FR Dec 30 22:14:14 Tig|: hahaha! Dec 30 22:14:19 king, are you using those kernels for a specific reason? Dec 30 22:14:20 I can ping my laptop from the FR Dec 30 22:14:23 But not the router Dec 30 22:15:03 Tig|, Yes, the FDOM pages asks me to use that. Even the QTExtended page asks me to use the same kernel. Dec 30 22:15:38 I would think you only need the kernel unless it says otherwise on the FDOM page Dec 30 22:15:55 king, ignore all errors about missing .sig files Dec 30 22:16:45 Does the four failed to download 404 errors means I have got the wrong repo list? Please note that this is a freshly flashed Neo :) Dec 30 22:16:49 jonkristian, is your router and wifi access point the same device Dec 30 22:17:03 Tig|: ok, turned of the freerunner, and it's definatley the phones adress, pinging stopped Dec 30 22:17:06 king, no there are no .sig files available on any of the repos Dec 30 22:17:08 Tig|: yes Dec 30 22:17:18 s/of/off/ Dec 30 22:17:44 Tig|: so ill try a reboot and see if it works then. Dec 30 22:17:57 king, they should contain package signatures but none of the repositories bother to generate them yet as the software is changing so fast so you can ignore all missing .sig file errors :) Dec 30 22:18:27 king, you will have the correct repos Dec 30 22:18:37 why does the speed of software change prevent generating sigs Dec 30 22:18:42 Tig|, Thanks for clearing that up. Dec 30 22:19:03 orzing, because they have to be generated so often? Dec 30 22:19:33 so do the packages themselves Dec 30 22:20:12 orzo yes it is the package signatures, I think it is also because it is minor issue and there are bigger things to do at the moment :) Dec 30 22:20:12 so add a sig generating step Dec 30 22:21:48 Tig|: same thing on reboot. Dec 30 22:21:51 orzo, don't look at me, I am just a user :) Dec 30 22:22:15 jonkristian, right so you can ping your laptop over wifi Dec 30 22:22:19 from your FR Dec 30 22:22:26 Tig|,Would you tell me how / where to extract a modules archive? Dec 30 22:22:45 the fr can ping the laptop and the laptop can ping the fr. but the router doesn't see the fr at all. it has the dns of the router and i can't ping global like google.com , so only internal network works, in a weird way. Dec 30 22:23:20 king, you cd / Dec 30 22:23:29 then run the tar command on the page Dec 30 22:23:46 tar xzf /path/to/modules-min-whatever.tgz Dec 30 22:23:59 it must have the paths embedded in the tar file Dec 30 22:24:01 Tig|, the modules are on my laptop and the tarball has to be extracted into the freerunner, how do I do that? Dec 30 22:24:08 jonkristian, sounds like a subnet issue Dec 30 22:24:17 copy the tar file to the freerunner first :) Dec 30 22:24:30 Tig|, Alright so I just extract it at '/' of freerunner. Dec 30 22:24:42 Tig|, :) I thought you would give me a better solution. Dec 30 22:24:43 king, that is what the webpage suggests Dec 30 22:25:07 seameat, it does Dec 30 22:25:19 seameat: ifconfig shows correct, 255.255.255.0 Dec 30 22:25:25 seameat: if that was what you meant Dec 30 22:25:29 hmm Dec 30 22:25:33 on which device Dec 30 22:25:45 the fr Dec 30 22:25:58 what does the FR think its route is? Dec 30 22:26:00 ive compared with my laptop, and everything seems correct Dec 30 22:26:13 route -n Dec 30 22:26:23 route -n shows 10.0.0.1 on gateway Dec 30 22:26:42 same as the lappy Dec 30 22:26:46 Tig|, If we were to compare SHR and Om2008.12. Which would you say has more application support, and which is more stable? Dec 30 22:26:48 and FR is 10.0.0.5 Dec 30 22:27:05 yes Dec 30 22:27:40 king, I have not tried 2008.12 yet so can't comment but I prefer the FSO based images such as SHR as they handle GPS more elegantly and via the framework Dec 30 22:28:08 jonkristian: put the outputs of 'ip add' and 'ip route' from every device on a paste service Dec 30 22:28:13 and what is the lappy ip? Dec 30 22:28:25 henk, now that is a very good idea :) Dec 30 22:28:35 perhaps the fr should view the pc as the gateway? Dec 30 22:28:37 Tig|, Are equal number of packages / software available for SHR and Om2008.12? Do they use a common repo for the apps? Dec 30 22:28:57 seameat, this is connecting via wifi not usb Dec 30 22:29:19 king, yes there should be a similar number of packages for both Dec 30 22:29:31 Tig|, oh ok Dec 30 22:29:40 Tig|, Does SHR have the snazzy zhone home screen and all? Dec 30 22:29:51 Tig|: hehe ;) Dec 30 22:29:57 SHR does not have zhone but FSO does Dec 30 22:30:07 SHR has it's own dialler app Dec 30 22:30:24 king: SHR has the openmoko-utilities for dialling, texting, contacts, phonelogging... Dec 30 22:30:26 henk: laptop first, http://rafb.net/p/VFgP7k93.html and http://rafb.net/p/A4o89y14.html Dec 30 22:30:36 king, basically you will be flashing new images for the next week or so playing with all of them :) Dec 30 22:31:00 king: I've tried every image I've found, I keep coming back to my SHR. Dec 30 22:31:26 king, I already tried QTExtended (never using it again), FDOM (bloated to the point of being unusable, Om2008.12(so bare bones I needed to get the net working to comment) Dec 30 22:31:40 Tig|, :) Dec 30 22:31:43 Digital_Pioneer, after trying FDOM again, i settled there Dec 30 22:31:56 Bleh, FDOM... Fat and dirty. Dec 30 22:32:04 Digital_Pioneer, SHR gave me errors every time i opened an app which had to access my SIM Dec 30 22:32:12 Digital_Pioneer, What would you say are the performance / stability / battery life difference between SHR and Om2008.12. Dec 30 22:32:38 I had 08.12 for altogether about 10 minutes. Dec 30 22:32:41 lol Dec 30 22:32:42 seameat: was that the error which goes away with latest kernel? Dec 30 22:32:47 seameat, that has been fixed now as far as I can see but SHR is still bleeding edge and images at the moment are still testing ones Dec 30 22:33:00 jonkristian, odd Dec 30 22:33:05 There was no way to get in, so I ditched it. Dec 30 22:33:12 henk: freerunner, http://rafb.net/p/Y9o7pO84.html and http://rafb.net/p/hOomGH26.html Dec 30 22:33:13 almien, i was using mwester's kernel... which i like, so i didnt try the shr specific kernel Dec 30 22:33:24 I am just firing up my FR now but I thought wifi on the FR was the eth0 device Dec 30 22:33:25 sorry for the long time, had to bring usb0 ssh and scp and paste Dec 30 22:33:29 * almien recognises the 10 minutes for 2008.12 - that's about how long it lasted on my phone too Dec 30 22:33:52 Tig|: the first paste was my laptop Dec 30 22:34:10 Tig|, bleeding edge = lot of head banging for me :( Dec 30 22:34:27 jonkristian, http://rafb.net/p/A4o89y14.html <<== FR? Dec 30 22:34:36 ah sorry Dec 30 22:34:56 Tig|, i see. perhaps i should flash the shr kernel instead of mwester's and see if that works Dec 30 22:35:00 understand now :) Dec 30 22:35:09 Tig|, I am downloading Om webkit based browser 29kb on my Neo. It is at 13% after 20 minutes. It is progressing excruciatingly slowly. Is it the usb1,1 bottleneck? Dec 30 22:35:16 strange, i don't see anything problematic? Dec 30 22:35:30 disregard that questionmark, heh Dec 30 22:35:40 almien, Digital_Pioneer Why does Om2008.12 repel you people away so strongly? Dec 30 22:36:12 There was no way to get in, so I ditched it. Dec 30 22:36:13 king: it went into suspend and wouldn't resume Dec 30 22:36:26 Digital_Pioneer, 'get in'? Dec 30 22:36:28 Couldn't SSH, and there was no network GUI or terminal emulator. Dec 30 22:36:32 Digital_Pioneer: yeah, i needs a reboot before ssh worked, afaik. Dec 30 22:36:37 king: 2008.12 is an evolutionary dead-end. Dec 30 22:36:47 what is this afaik people keep saying? Dec 30 22:36:48 king, erm it should not be that slow, perhaps it is the server at the other end, the OM servers have been known to be slow before Dec 30 22:37:09 seameat: as far as i know Dec 30 22:37:10 Tig|, SO SO slow? These are pre-dial up speeds man! Dec 30 22:37:31 The servers are in .tw Dec 30 22:37:38 mwester, So where do the OM employees concentrate on now? Bringing in the FSO and stuff? What SHR is trying to do? Dec 30 22:37:40 king, something is wrong there but I doubt it is the USB1 link :) Dec 30 22:37:44 jonkristian, oh that makes sense, heh Dec 30 22:37:59 Tig|, Glad to hear so, I thought everything was going to be THIS slow :-D Dec 30 22:38:05 nooooooooooo Dec 30 22:38:08 Tig|: the router picked up the phone now, but it lists it as inactive, or offline. Dec 30 22:38:09 king: Om focuses on the hardware, the kernel, and they support the FSO project. Dec 30 22:38:38 are any of the freerunner distributions going to be affiliated with Google's Summer of Code in 09? Dec 30 22:38:44 jonkristian, can you ping it from the router yet? Dec 30 22:38:46 mwester, But OM does espouse a favourite distro to leverage their hardware right? Which distro would they throw their weight behind now? Dec 30 22:38:49 Tig|: picked up, in a sense that it had seen it somewhere along the way, still can't ping, same state. Dec 30 22:39:14 jonkristian, router reboot time? Dec 30 22:39:17 or too soon to tell Dec 30 22:39:28 Tig|: no ping, ill try a reboot then, bbs Dec 30 22:39:32 ttfn Dec 30 22:39:34 jonkristian: wait a sec? Dec 30 22:39:38 ok Dec 30 22:39:48 jonkristian: what about routers interface config and routing table? Dec 30 22:39:49 mwester, I am installing Om webkit based browser 29kb since 30 minutes . It has just reached 16%. What could be the issue? Dec 30 22:40:06 king, kill it and restart the install Dec 30 22:40:16 something has died there Dec 30 22:40:22 Tig|, through ssh? killall packagekit? Dec 30 22:40:34 Tig|, It is steadily moving forward, very very slowly :) Dec 30 22:40:47 are you installing via assassin or opkg Dec 30 22:41:06 Tig|, through the Om2008.12 GUI, so that would be assassin, right? Dec 30 22:41:11 assassin is the gui yes Dec 30 22:41:29 close that and kill packagekit Dec 30 22:41:33 then restart it Dec 30 22:42:13 Tig|,when I said killall packagekit through the SSH it said no process. I closed and open the installer on the Neo then. Dec 30 22:42:19 hello,opkg doesn't want do downgrade a package even with -force-downgrade: http://rafb.net/p/3mdPXZ44.html Dec 30 22:42:26 Tig|, Why would packagekit not be killed through the ssh? Dec 30 22:42:47 did it say no processes killed Dec 30 22:43:04 Tig|, yes. Dec 30 22:43:16 if so that is because assassin did it when it closed, there was a bug where it used to stick around Dec 30 22:43:25 must have been fixed :) Dec 30 22:43:30 hurrah Dec 30 22:43:34 isn't it packagekitd? Dec 30 22:43:54 cjb, erm that is a point, it is a daemon Dec 30 22:43:54 Tig|, I tried to kill it while the gui was still open. Dec 30 22:44:26 king, I am being an idiot and cjb is right :) serves me right for doing it from memory :) Dec 30 22:44:30 Tig|, Again the installer is stuck at 9%, now it went to 10. Dec 30 22:45:01 cjb, are you running 2008.X ? Dec 30 22:45:09 Tig|, cjb, Yes! it is indeed a daemon. Dec 30 22:45:24 Tig|: nope Dec 30 22:45:32 damn Dec 30 22:45:49 not running it here either Dec 30 22:45:50 Tig|, I killed the daemon from ssh as it was stuck again. But the GUI Still shows assasin's GUI. Shouldn't that quit automatically as well? Dec 30 22:46:03 close that from the gui Dec 30 22:46:20 might be worth just checking from ssh that it is dead in the process list Dec 30 22:46:31 Tig|, The SHR people say they don't consider the distro stable enough to even release the images, so I am staying away from it, given my ineptness with even the stable distros. Dec 30 22:47:07 Tig|, Its gone. Dec 30 22:47:24 king, fair enough I am running it because it suits my needs better than any of the other images but I am not using it as my daily phone at the moment Dec 30 22:47:56 right try restarting that blasted webbrowser install Dec 30 22:48:51 Tig|, Could it be that the routing through my laptop is slow? I restarted it again. It is stuck third time now. Dec 30 22:49:02 wow, router just crashed before i had a chance to do anything Dec 30 22:49:38 king try downloading the ipk to your laptop Dec 30 22:49:45 henk: you meant like this? http://lilledyret.com/2008-12-30-234400_1920x1200_scrot.png Dec 30 22:50:51 jonkrist1an: no, neither ip config nor routing tables on that screenshot... Dec 30 22:51:00 Tig|, I don't know how to do that, links, instructions? Dec 30 22:51:00 perhaps under 'details'? Dec 30 22:53:08 king, are you installing midori Dec 30 22:53:12 Tig|, Even opkg update is taking more than 5 minutes to finish. Dec 30 22:53:22 hello, how do I downgrade a package if -force-downgrade doesn't work...i realy need to downgrade Dec 30 22:53:32 Tig|, Not installing anything now. First I tried Om browser, then midori. Both get stuck. Dec 30 22:53:36 king, is it slow to download Dec 30 22:53:39 because otherwise i've to wait until oe finishes to compile Dec 30 22:54:11 try picking a file at random that it is trying to fetch and on your laptop try fetching it Dec 30 22:54:59 henk: http://rafb.net/p/OV5yIE32.html Dec 30 22:55:32 Tig|, I would need more specific steps. Don't understand what you are asking me to test. Dec 30 22:55:44 henk: http://rafb.net/p/aTX1z880.html Dec 30 22:55:59 henk: that's what i found in telnet, on the speedtouch Dec 30 22:56:02 Tig|, Let me ditch Om2008.12. Let's SHR :) Dec 30 22:56:17 king, ok you are currently updating via opkg update Dec 30 22:56:30 Tig|, Yes that update finished. Dec 30 22:56:43 the first stage is it goes and downloads the file lists Dec 30 22:56:56 you can see the web addresses on the console Dec 30 22:57:20 Tig|, You mean the SSH? Dec 30 22:57:36 copy one of those addresses that is taking a long time to finish and in a terminal on your laptop run : wget http://addressofslowfile Dec 30 22:57:41 yes on the ssh Dec 30 22:57:52 and see if it is any faster on your laptop Dec 30 22:58:46 Tig|, midori is just stuck at downloading stage, I don't even get the %s Dec 30 22:59:23 Tig|, Look at the latency! http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/ Dec 30 22:59:33 root@om-gta02:/etc# ping google.com Dec 30 22:59:35 PING google.com (209.85.171.100): 56 data bytes Dec 30 22:59:35 64 bytes from 209.85.171.100: seq=0 ttl=231 time=1216.656 ms Dec 30 22:59:37 Tig|, ^ Dec 30 22:59:55 Tig|, Alright I got it at 1% now. Dec 30 23:00:11 king, shr.bearstech comes straight up here Dec 30 23:00:12 But the SSH doesn't display the list of files that it is trynig to fetch as you said. Dec 30 23:00:48 Tig|, I pasted that URL by mistake, please see the ping time for google in the line below. Dec 30 23:00:53 ah right Dec 30 23:00:55 hello how do I downgrade a package? Dec 30 23:01:05 Tig|, Still at !% Dec 30 23:01:06 editing the Packages files? Dec 30 23:01:46 GNUtoo, opkg -force-downgrade ? Dec 30 23:01:46 king, I am not sure what is going on there but something is not right, have you rebooted the phone since you flashed it? Dec 30 23:01:52 king, doesn't work Dec 30 23:02:29 Tig|, Let me flash SHR onto it. I am sick of Om2008.12 already. Which files do I take from here http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/? Dec 30 23:02:37 king, ah without the install Dec 30 23:03:07 GNUtoo, :) Dec 30 23:03:26 Tig|, What is the difference between the glibc images and the simple ones on that page? Dec 30 23:03:43 king, http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 and http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin Dec 30 23:04:12 king, ah no doesn't work without or with the install: http://rafb.net/p/3mdPXZ44.html Dec 30 23:05:00 Tig|, Getting the packages. It is 0400am here now. Dec 30 23:05:11 king, i need my own version of libboost...for wesnoth Dec 30 23:05:32 GNUtoo, I am one day old here. Sorry. Dec 30 23:06:01 Tig|, There is some issue with my wifi I think. Those files are coming in at 2kbps! Dec 30 23:06:05 ok so who knows? Dec 30 23:06:15 king, ok thanks Dec 30 23:06:58 king, ah so it is not the FR then :) Dec 30 23:12:16 even editing /var/lib/opkg/armv4t doesn't work Dec 30 23:12:21 still want to download it Dec 30 23:12:55 and shr build system can't 'unpack tree object d3b1136d29f88fa7bfcbedb6a195724e071cad77' so it fails Dec 30 23:13:04 so no way to install wesnoth!!! Dec 30 23:13:37 and i have't my old oe temp dir anymore Dec 30 23:17:44 Is it a know issue that network throughput sucks on ar6k? Dec 30 23:18:33 I'm wget-ing a file and wget uses up all of the CPU Dec 30 23:19:00 I wonder whether it's in the wireless driver or in some other part of the kernel. Dec 30 23:19:28 mb__: is it system or use time? Dec 30 23:20:03 lindi-: system Dec 30 23:20:29 .. mofi ist wohl gerade wech sich für die 2 Mädel-Posten im TV anwerben lassen Dec 30 23:20:33 mb__: then it's not wget but the driver Dec 30 23:20:35 ups.. Dec 30 23:20:51 lindi-: Yeah or the networking stack, but most likely the driver Dec 30 23:21:07 lindi-: Possibly also sdio and stuff, dunno. Dec 30 23:22:19 at least gps is working:) Dec 30 23:24:27 Bonsoir tout le monde ! Dec 30 23:24:41 hi Dec 30 23:25:31 Sorry, I wanted to say “Hi”. Dec 30 23:26:30 your entry was far superior to "hi" Dec 30 23:26:36 no need to feel sorry man Dec 30 23:26:59 :) Dec 30 23:27:23 henk: any more good suggestions what i might try? Dec 30 23:27:33 Or Tig| for that matter, heh:) Dec 30 23:31:32 hello is there realy anyone that could help me...i even tried to modify the package manually!!!! and it gave me: An error ocurred, return value: -49936. Dec 30 23:31:47 i realy *want* wesnoth Dec 30 23:31:51 it' Dec 30 23:31:53 oops Dec 30 23:32:22 hm, the router says, ethernet interface unknown, maybe because it's eth0 ? Dec 30 23:32:30 i've been fighting for having it hours... Dec 30 23:32:34 is that a possibility? Dec 30 23:32:52 jonkristian: what router? Dec 30 23:33:24 jonkristian, have you rebooted the router yet? Dec 30 23:33:36 it's a thomson speedtouch ST585 Dec 30 23:33:38 Tig|: yeah Dec 30 23:34:07 Tig|: tried different stuff, reconnecting, rebooting the fra nd the router etc.. Dec 30 23:34:16 also tried adding a global dns Dec 30 23:35:46 jonkristian, right lets think about this logicaly Dec 30 23:36:04 the only way for the FR to ping the laptop is to go via the router Dec 30 23:36:13 as it is connecting over wifi Dec 30 23:36:49 Tig|: yeah Dec 30 23:37:31 same for the laptop to the FR Dec 30 23:38:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r6643f5fda9da 10/framework/patterns/processguard.py: add generic process guard class Dec 30 23:38:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3f68994d0804 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Dec 30 23:38:58 freesmartphone.org: First step towards integrating Vala/C subsystems with frameworkd: Dec 30 23:38:58 freesmartphone.org: Support external subsystems. If you add a section with an 'external' attribute, then Dec 30 23:39:01 freesmartphone.org: the section will be treated as an external subsystem to launch with the path given as attribute: Dec 30 23:39:04 freesmartphone.org: [mysubsystem] Dec 30 23:39:06 freesmartphone.org: external=/foo/bar Dec 30 23:39:08 freesmartphone.org: TODO: Add 'relaunch' attribute. Dec 30 23:39:10 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf2d61c35f9c2 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Dec 30 23:39:10 yeah, Iv'e tried pinging from inside the router aswell. I can ping the phone fine from my laptop, and same goes for from the fr, but the fr can't ping the router. Dec 30 23:39:16 freesmartphone.org: odeviced: Register objects under /org/freesmartphone/Device/Display/ also Dec 30 23:39:18 freesmartphone.org: with an numerical incremental alias -- e.g. the first display can now Dec 30 23:39:20 freesmartphone.org: also be accessed via /org/freesmartphone/Device/Display/0. Dec 30 23:39:22 freesmartphone.org: rules: Adjust the default backlight brightness rule to use display "0". Dec 30 23:39:24 freesmartphone.org: NOTE: This should be the last missing step to support Openmoko kernel Dec 30 23:39:28 freesmartphone.org: versions 2.6.24 and also >= 2.6.27 for GTA01 and GTA02. Dec 30 23:39:30 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra369198b219c 10/framework/persist.py: persist: Use cPickle instead of Python-based implementation Dec 30 23:39:33 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r21f62890f42c 10/framework/ (5 files in 3 dirs): move services.py and netlink.py to patterns directory Dec 30 23:39:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * red797b0a4f3a 10/framework/patterns/kobject.py: kobject: parse a bit more of netlink Dec 30 23:40:10 When trying to ping the router from the fr it just hangs though, doesn't time out. hangs on the first line. Dec 30 23:40:30 when i try to ping the fr from inside the router it timesout Dec 30 23:41:24 I still suspect a setting on the router somewhere Dec 30 23:42:25 http://rafb.net/p/q7TBFF64.html Dec 30 23:43:36 don't know with wpa-psk version is wpa2, maybe i should've used wpa or wpa+wpa2? Dec 30 23:44:20 btw, i also reset the router and the only thing i've changed is to enable upnp and set up wpa. Dec 30 23:46:06 ill reboot and try iwconfig eth0 power off Dec 30 23:46:42 Tig|: what channel are set on your ap? Dec 30 23:49:07 I am on channel 11 and WPA1 Dec 30 23:49:32 ok, ill try that Dec 30 23:51:56 i finally succedded removing libboost-iostream from /var/lib/opkg Dec 30 23:55:07 jonkristian: ping the ips of the 2 other devices from your laptop, phone and router so i get an overview of the problems. NOT the hostnames so we can make sure it's not a dns issue. perhaps there is a packet filter anywhere? Dec 30 23:58:03 jonkristian :) Dec 30 23:58:24 Dave: Hi:) Dec 30 23:58:29 :D Dec 30 23:58:44 How's it going? Dec 30 23:59:25 Dave! Dec 30 23:59:49 Tig|: nah, channel 11 regular wpa personal, still no joy then Dec 30 23:59:56 arse :( Dec 31 00:00:00 yeah Dec 31 00:00:12 pretty strange, lol Dec 31 00:00:16 there is something screwy on your network somewhere Dec 31 00:00:45 I did not think it was the wireless security settings though as you could ping the lappy from the FR and vice versa Dec 31 00:01:24 yeah, you have a point there Dec 31 00:01:51 network gremlins! Dec 31 00:01:57 YOU HAVE THEM Dec 31 00:02:33 Dave: I do indeed Dec 31 00:03:22 Dave: strange ones too, I can ping the fr from my laptop, and my laptop from the fr, but the router picks it up as inactive, and there's only local networking. Dec 31 00:05:31 WooOooOOooOooOOoooh Dec 31 00:05:38 WhErE iS iT !? Dec 31 00:05:41 :o Dec 31 00:05:44 lol Dec 31 00:14:14 I really think that the speedtouch thinks my fr is connected via ethernet. Dec 31 00:14:27 it can't Dec 31 00:14:31 router picks up unknown on interface Dec 31 00:14:36 as for my laptop, it says wireless Dec 31 00:14:48 ok Dec 31 00:15:14 that info is not sent over tcpip Dec 31 00:15:29 can ya route it, baby? Dec 31 00:15:34 and it must be seeing it on the wifi or it would not be able to authenticate Dec 31 00:15:48 yeah, something goes wrong somewhere though Dec 31 00:15:48 and it must be seeing it somewhere as it is giving it an IP address Dec 31 00:17:40 oh now this is a very long shot Dec 31 00:18:30 what about tcp window scaling Dec 31 00:19:19 I have been bitten on the arse by this before and duff routers Dec 31 00:19:34 hm Dec 31 00:19:34 try disabling it on the FR Dec 31 00:19:47 does udp work then? Dec 31 00:19:58 before starting to tweak tcp Dec 31 00:20:19 yes Dec 31 00:25:04 ok disabled, i'll try to reconnect now Dec 31 00:26:46 nah, didn't change a thing Dec 31 00:26:58 arse Dec 31 00:27:30 yeah, meh Dec 31 00:27:38 or rather *sigh* Dec 31 00:27:40 I might have to leave you with it as it has gone midnight here and I am knackered :( Dec 31 00:28:04 Yeah, I'll try to browse around tomorrow, maybe find a coffeshop with open network. Dec 31 00:28:15 it is bloody odd though Dec 31 00:28:15 thanks for all your help Dec 31 00:28:19 yeah Dec 31 00:28:33 no worrys sorry we could not fix it Dec 31 00:28:38 I'm almost thinking about calling my isp and have them send me a new modem Dec 31 00:28:43 yeah, me too Dec 31 00:29:08 try the FR on a different network first Dec 31 00:29:17 i feel that alot of things are broken on these modems, flakey stuff. Dec 31 00:29:55 I generally use linksys for my adsl modems now Dec 31 00:30:41 mm Dec 31 00:30:58 well, i don't have much choice there, they're pre-configured i think Dec 31 00:31:23 if it is adsl you can just take the details from one and put it on another Dec 31 00:31:52 okey, good to know Dec 31 00:32:30 right I am off, toodle pip Dec 31 00:32:39 good night Dec 31 00:32:52 uhm Dec 31 00:32:53 ok Dec 31 00:33:04 so now the router sees that the fr is wlan interface Dec 31 01:19:55 hi guys i need some help Dec 31 01:20:06 https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2192#comment:3 Dec 31 01:20:16 i wanna do this Dec 31 01:20:23 but the site is unavailable Dec 31 01:20:37 so i'd need those files Dec 31 01:20:57 someone of you certainly has them Dec 31 01:21:24 so plz host them someplace so i can get rid of the dreadful qtopia keyboard Dec 31 01:22:12 'tis the time of giving Dec 31 01:22:18 hohohoho Dec 31 01:23:11 that time is over(?) Dec 31 01:23:47 no it isn't, it lasts till the 6. of january Dec 31 01:24:59 come on guyz Dec 31 01:39:30 anyone know how to get the illume keyboard working in 2008.12? I enabled the illume theme but still have the OM keyboard Dec 31 01:48:38 Cervajz :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 31 02:59:58 2008