**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 27 02:59:57 2009 Feb 27 04:39:09 openmoko: 03werner * r4940 10/developers/werner/gta03/cam/patches/ (4 files): Add CAMIF platform device and use it on GTA03. We now crash one clock later ;-) Feb 27 04:48:11 eheh Feb 27 06:19:10 Are there any plans for a JAVA VM on OpenMoko? Feb 27 06:20:32 Or is it a case of "if you want one, write one"? :P Feb 27 06:23:03 Android runs on it - clearly it has a VM. Feb 27 06:23:12 There are others as well. Feb 27 06:23:39 But I don't do java, so I can't do anything but point you to the wiki and maling list for previous discussions Feb 27 06:25:43 oh ok Feb 27 06:26:05 I did some googling and it seems like there is Android and its VM and there are some efforts towards a native OM VM Feb 27 06:26:13 and that the native VM efforts havent gone that far Feb 27 06:26:20 mostly because of something called Jazelle whatever that is Feb 27 06:27:12 oh wait I remember now, the issue is that Feb 27 06:27:34 that ARM CPUs (including IIRC the one in the OM phones) have these Jazelle extentions to make JAVA run faster Feb 27 06:27:43 but that they are undocumented and proprietary Feb 27 06:27:49 hence no support for them in free VMs Feb 27 06:37:59 :( Feb 27 06:47:33 does Tmobile have the Openmoto? Feb 27 06:48:44 hry? Feb 27 06:55:59 you cant get any mopenmoko phone from any carriers AFAIK Feb 27 07:00:30 TGIF Feb 27 07:25:16 hi~ Feb 27 07:26:18 any body there? Feb 27 07:26:19 hi Feb 27 07:27:44 is people changing opinions about openmoko project here? Feb 27 07:28:55 harrytt: yep Feb 27 07:30:07 ok.. Feb 27 07:31:09 may I post a link here, I need people help me to finish a survey.... Feb 27 07:32:14 mickey|zzZZzz: In case it's still interesting to you, EU version of Dream was rooted by xda guys, instructions provided. Feb 27 07:35:15 or I just post...... Feb 27 07:36:02 harrytt: are you going to post the results? Feb 27 07:36:30 harrytt: especially it'd be interesting to see the results for devs separated from end-users and stuff like that. Feb 27 07:36:55 when I finish it, of course I will post the result... Feb 27 07:37:32 currently I need collect feedback as much as possible,, Feb 27 07:40:00 harrytt: it's a bit too early for Europe, so you can try to motivate more people a bit later. And please, show the meaningful results, i'd like to know if there are many devs who feel very dissatisfied with OM-the-company but like the community. Feb 27 07:40:53 thanks Feb 27 07:41:51 harrytt: are you an OM employee? Feb 27 07:42:10 I left there few months ago... Feb 27 07:43:14 I worked for OM sales from initial stage Feb 27 07:43:51 harrytt: OM had a great potential but with all the epic screw-ups i can hardly see any future for them... I hope i'm wrong though and just being overly-pessimistic. Feb 27 07:45:38 things is changing everyday... Feb 27 07:47:30 I still hope they can drive the company as well as possible Feb 27 07:50:54 harrytt: harry? Feb 27 07:51:01 harrytt: you left? Feb 27 07:51:08 hey..man Feb 27 07:51:21 how are you doing? Feb 27 07:51:24 hey man Feb 27 07:51:33 not bad. and you? Feb 27 07:51:36 how about your Chinese? Feb 27 07:51:41 what got you moving? Feb 27 07:51:54 bu hao. bu hao! Feb 27 07:52:03 (chongwen) Feb 27 07:52:07 haha~~cool Feb 27 07:52:31 i've had to learn some korean lately... so i'm all confused again Feb 27 07:52:37 why did you leave? Feb 27 07:52:41 come on give me hand..I need people fill in my survey... Feb 27 07:52:48 or you cant/dont want to talk about it (in public)? Feb 27 07:53:01 what survey where? Feb 27 07:53:12 We talk in person...OK? Feb 27 07:53:17 http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en Feb 27 07:53:22 mei wen ti :) Feb 27 07:53:31 so cool.... Feb 27 07:53:56 this survey is for my Master thesis... Feb 27 07:54:15 hmm Feb 27 07:54:23 this looks just like a survey some swiss guys sent out :) Feb 27 07:54:28 or similar! Feb 27 07:55:12 a Taiwanese guy.... Feb 27 07:57:26 Raster...where are you now? Feb 27 07:58:50 wa da si wa Harry san.... Feb 27 08:00:16 sydney :) Feb 27 08:00:53 hahahaha Feb 27 08:01:04 watahsi wa Harry-san Feb 27 08:01:36 anyway..you undersatood the mean Feb 27 08:02:47 A Li Ga do... Raster-san Feb 27 08:03:35 hehehehehe Feb 27 08:03:36 :) Feb 27 08:03:40 arigatou! Feb 27 08:03:41 :) Feb 27 08:04:51 maybe I need post the link every hour....ask people give me a hand Feb 27 08:05:12 Ok, to root EU HTC Dream only 20 EUR is needed to buy QMAT. Looks like it's still much cheaper than buying a dev version. But after that you won't be able to buy apps from android market. What a stupid system, all this android shit sucks! :) Feb 27 08:07:16 I may find many kindly developers to give me a hand ... :) Feb 27 08:07:26 hahahaha Feb 27 08:08:49 http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en Give me a hand pls!!!! Feb 27 08:09:51 harrytt: Filled it in :) Feb 27 08:10:11 thank very much..... Feb 27 08:16:17 harrytt: ok- survey filled :) Feb 27 08:16:35 just rememebr to remind people and they will Feb 27 08:16:55 arigatou!! Feb 27 08:17:11 xie xie Feb 27 08:17:33 And for those who say it's not Google's fault, and rather HTC's/O2/whatever, i say that it is Google's fault! If they were against tivoization, they'd released under GPLv3 or smth like that. They could prevent tivoization but apparently they didn't want to, quite the opposite, they wanted to make android more appealing to phone vendors to sell more crap on android market. So, Google is guilty, IMHO! Feb 27 08:18:50 PaulFertser_: google made as much of the os non-gpl to make it easy to close off if vendors want to Feb 27 08:19:12 as well as thats just how that group in google works Feb 27 08:19:16 they come from the mobile world Feb 27 08:19:30 so to them a gpl glibc thats big and full of features is "Bloat' Feb 27 08:20:08 (even tho even my tiny treo640 with 32m ram is more powerful than my pc i originally wrote enligthenment on whne i started with linux - same ram and a faster cpu than the p120 i had) Feb 27 08:20:21 so the idea of "bloat" is i think a little far fetched for thigns like that Feb 27 08:20:32 but i agree - i dont think android is really open Feb 27 08:20:37 even tho they wave the open flag Feb 27 08:20:46 and say they are open Feb 27 08:20:55 they dont even ship "linux' as in a linux system Feb 27 08:20:58 only a linux kernel Feb 27 08:21:03 the rest of userspace != linux Feb 27 08:21:10 its somethingelse kind-of linux-like Feb 27 08:21:20 raster: i know. I'm just trying to prove to other people that android is not about "being free" and even not about "being open" (open and appealing only for "big" phone vendors). And that's the reason why i think that android doesn't belong to the openmoko community world. Feb 27 08:22:41 even google wants open everything..the manufactures is impossible to open it Feb 27 08:23:20 harrytt: google doesn't, that's the main problem Feb 27 08:24:44 Google doesn't want to open, how did you come up with that? :P Feb 27 08:24:47 Google doesn't even commit their kernel patches and work back to the community, they keep it all secret. Feb 27 08:25:10 Google is all about datamining, getting to know as much about you as they can. Feb 27 08:25:22 Which is what their browser does: send everything you go to and type, to Google. Feb 27 08:25:45 To be able to sell you more consumerist shit. Feb 27 08:26:04 Well, the datamining and crosslinking of the data is what made 'em succesfull. Feb 27 08:26:26 Hm.. actually openmoko sometimes have same problem, see qemu. Feb 27 08:27:38 PaulFertser_: Read a long article about Android on arstechnica yesterday. It said that Google blamed the lack of openness on pressure to release a phone as fast as possible, but that they try to open up things more now Feb 27 08:27:46 Not so sure I believe that.. Feb 27 08:28:01 Marketingtalk :) Feb 27 08:28:10 PaulFertser_: i know. if andorid was about open and free - it would share a lot more with standard "linux" distros Feb 27 08:28:14 ie use normal glibc Feb 27 08:28:24 normal busybox, tools, libs, x11, etc. Feb 27 08:28:35 Yeah, instead of rewriting stuff under the Apache license Feb 27 08:29:09 raster: and instead they're telling lies about how any POSIX-compliant environment is so unsuitable even for modern "constrained" devices and other nonsense like that. Feb 27 08:29:26 CM_work: i don't buy that too, so we agree here :) Feb 27 08:29:41 Now to find an android fan to bash together :) Feb 27 08:29:48 Hehe Feb 27 08:29:50 Pls give Harry a hand fill this survey, http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en Feb 27 08:29:51 :P Feb 27 08:30:01 PaulFertser_: correct. that is total bs. Feb 27 08:30:06 it is an attempt to justify it Feb 27 08:30:16 imoh andorid is a very divisive force in the open world Feb 27 08:30:21 they are playnig the open trumpet Feb 27 08:30:24 waving the flags Feb 27 08:30:31 trying to attract all the oss devs Feb 27 08:30:38 but u have to specially port to andorid Feb 27 08:30:49 Android IS more open than the iPhone, but it's still very very far from truly being open Feb 27 08:30:53 if it were linux the only thing u'd care about is if it compiles for arm Feb 27 08:31:03 and if your library dependencies are there (and compile) Feb 27 08:31:08 is anybody going to kick me out? hehe.... Feb 27 08:31:13 CM_work: oh absolutely. more open indeed Feb 27 08:31:17 * CM_work thinks the Android SDK looks shiny though Feb 27 08:31:22 but its not the open i think the openmoko community wanted Feb 27 08:31:26 not just open in terms of code Feb 27 08:31:27 No, not at all Feb 27 08:31:42 but open in terms of "its the same open and same os i already develop for and use on my desktop" Feb 27 08:32:12 excuses like "its all too fast to work" are stupid Feb 27 08:32:16 err too fat to work Feb 27 08:32:22 openembedded works on my treo650 Feb 27 08:32:26 with a mere 32m ram Feb 27 08:32:30 boots to x and e Feb 27 08:32:32 and i can run apps Feb 27 08:32:40 admittedly itsa pushing it Feb 27 08:32:43 but it works Feb 27 08:32:54 prety well too Feb 27 08:33:09 if it were not for the python frameworkd - it'd be able to make calls etc. etc. Feb 27 08:33:16 Hehe Feb 27 08:33:38 it could possibly be leaned down too Feb 27 08:33:42 a bit Feb 27 08:33:49 FSO Milestone 5 works really well on my GTA01. First one where Calling, Answering, suspend and sms has worked right away Feb 27 08:34:06 but i dont buy the "glibc etc. etc. (posix whatever) is too big" argument as its wrong - and proven wrong. Feb 27 08:34:30 CM_work: boot your gta02 with mem=32 with the kernel and see how well it works Feb 27 08:34:30 :) Feb 27 08:34:40 Hehe, true Feb 27 08:34:55 How big is glibc? ulibc? Feb 27 08:36:32 glibc about 1.3M Feb 27 08:36:42 thats the file Feb 27 08:36:48 njot all of it is paged in and used at runtime Feb 27 08:37:07 it also compresses and provides a lot of utils and things that in other cases exist in other libs outside of libc Feb 27 08:47:49 Ok, thanks Feb 27 08:52:54 Say Thank You to those people who filled my survey...... :) Feb 27 08:53:11 http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en Feb 27 09:06:59 openmoko: 03werner * r4941 10/developers/werner/gta03/cam/patches/ (5 files): Feb 27 09:06:59 openmoko: The clocks seems to be fine now. The driver doesn't ask for a sensible Feb 27 09:06:59 openmoko: frequency (266 MHz instead of 44 MHz), but this is probably a different Feb 27 09:06:59 openmoko: issue. In any case, it gets what it asks for. Feb 27 09:10:09 harrytt: Maybe there's some people in #openmoko-cdevel that's not in here? Ask there too ;) Feb 27 09:12:36 OK Feb 27 09:31:43 harrytt: OM finally does some basic marketing evaluation? Great! :-) Feb 27 09:32:08 hehe...you mean this survey? or Feb 27 09:32:14 yup Feb 27 09:32:33 actually..this is my thesis survey.... Feb 27 09:32:46 keep in mind you won't see many non-customers though Feb 27 09:33:01 ahh, thesis. I thought it's for Sean ;-) Feb 27 09:33:33 I left OM job few months ago...the survey is for me...maybe I can talk to Sean about the result... Feb 27 09:33:44 maybe our management would be interested in the results nevertheless Feb 27 09:33:54 yup Feb 27 09:34:26 need more people help to finish it ... Feb 27 09:34:35 well cya. I'm out for breakfast now Feb 27 09:35:12 don't forget it.... Feb 27 09:35:15 (help) me isn't a representative person to fill it ;D Feb 27 09:36:07 I will ask some of my friends though Feb 27 09:36:18 thanks Feb 27 09:36:27 np :) Feb 27 09:46:17 http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en Feb 27 09:46:55 Need your support to finish this survey... Feb 27 10:08:32 Could someone w. 2008.12 try to install these failing opkg.org repository packages: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-February/042811.html Feb 27 11:20:25 hi Feb 27 11:20:43 i've got some problem with bluetooth Feb 27 11:21:11 me too =) Feb 27 11:21:20 in fact, we all got some problems with bt =( Feb 27 11:21:26 can someone post his /etc/default/bluetooth? Feb 27 11:21:34 what distro? Feb 27 11:21:37 om Feb 27 11:21:44 2008.9/12 ? Feb 27 11:21:54 2008.12 Feb 27 11:22:06 i've got no problem with bluetooth Feb 27 11:22:12 i just don't use it :-D Feb 27 11:22:16 :D Feb 27 11:22:26 I can't find the device Feb 27 11:22:44 root@om-gta02:~# hcitool dev Feb 27 11:22:45 Devices: Feb 27 11:22:50 HID2HCI_ENABLE=true Feb 27 11:22:59 that's my default bluetooth Feb 27 11:23:06 only that? Feb 27 11:23:14 yup, two comments too Feb 27 11:23:30 # Run hid2hci (allowed values are "true" and "false") Feb 27 11:23:56 and in your /etc/network/interfaces? Feb 27 11:24:22 iface bnep0 inet dhcp? Feb 27 11:25:23 # Bluetooth networking Feb 27 11:25:23 iface bnep0 inet dhcp Feb 27 11:25:41 mm Feb 27 11:25:44 tnx Feb 27 11:25:47 np Feb 27 11:26:59 and if you do hciconfig Feb 27 11:27:05 or hcitool dev? Feb 27 11:34:32 which os is now the workable one for freerunner, which does work with gsm, gps and wlan that's all I need now Feb 27 11:34:47 err wait alarm would be nice too Feb 27 11:40:50 someone with working bluetooth? Feb 27 11:42:00 I've heard that the bluez is broken for 2008.12 and that's why remoko doesn't work with it.. Feb 27 11:42:34 see http://code.google.com/p/remoko/issues/detail?id=5#c8 and https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2218 Feb 27 11:42:54 I am useing qtextended now, but I guess fso or shr are more lookable and supportable. Feb 27 11:44:40 but i can't see the device Feb 27 11:44:52 and i can't turn it up Feb 27 11:45:20 Pietrao, which os are you useing? Feb 27 11:45:28 om2008.12 Feb 27 11:45:57 hmmI was told not to use om2008.12 Feb 27 11:47:56 does bluez work properly on shr? Feb 27 11:48:48 no idea, try it out. Feb 27 11:48:55 ok Feb 27 11:48:58 i've to go Feb 27 11:48:59 bye Feb 27 11:49:29 did I say something wrong? Feb 27 11:52:41 any way to get the menu bar back in midori? Feb 27 11:53:05 or the location bar, for that matter Feb 27 12:41:23 openmoko: 03werner * r4942 10/developers/werner/gta03/cam/patches/ (6 files): Feb 27 12:41:23 openmoko: - hacked I2C registration to "work" (driver needs updating for new API) Feb 27 12:41:23 openmoko: - frequency is still x10 too high. can tweak this from user space. Feb 27 12:41:23 openmoko: - work around minor numbers not being assigned the way the driver expects Feb 27 13:21:48 hi all Feb 27 13:31:54 hey, ho, don't go Feb 27 13:32:45 is that a cheer or an insult Feb 27 13:50:48 that was just to say hi Feb 27 13:51:10 no offence intenended Feb 27 13:51:16 *intended Feb 27 13:53:42 none taken anyhow Feb 27 13:53:59 * rooly goes play a game Feb 27 13:54:10 ~_~ Feb 27 13:54:11 STOP DOING THAT! Feb 27 13:54:21 nvm actually Feb 27 13:54:25 still waiting on the download Feb 27 13:54:33 89 MB's takes a little while apparently Feb 27 13:54:36 apt: go play with yourself Feb 27 13:54:38 i'm not used to not-cable Feb 27 13:54:50 apt, make me some coffee Feb 27 13:54:51 * apt brews a nice hot cup of coffee for me some Feb 27 13:55:10 we're not paying you by the hour, you know Feb 27 13:55:36 what are you downloading, rooly? Feb 27 13:55:59 darkspace Feb 27 13:56:08 haven't heard of it Feb 27 13:56:14 what is it? Feb 27 13:56:22 hmm... Feb 27 13:56:31 ever played star trek armada? Feb 27 13:56:36 nope Feb 27 13:56:40 action/rpg? Feb 27 13:56:41 homeworld? Feb 27 13:56:46 no Feb 27 13:56:51 hegemonia Feb 27 13:57:08 ...okay then Feb 27 13:57:08 also no Feb 27 13:57:17 eve Feb 27 13:57:25 bailed out of gaming a bit after SNES Feb 27 13:57:33 oic Feb 27 13:57:37 so you're way behind Feb 27 13:57:45 pretty much Feb 27 13:58:03 though I still enjoy the occasionally mario/zelda Feb 27 13:58:07 whathaveyou Feb 27 13:59:18 woop, gots work to do Feb 27 14:00:23 me too Feb 27 14:00:25 later Feb 27 14:00:28 is there some fix for the missing gtk+fastscaling pacakge for shr or fso? Feb 27 14:04:23 Too bad the freerunner costs soo much or I would buy one Feb 27 14:04:29 I can't afford it Feb 27 14:06:13 unlocked smartphones usually aren't the cheapest of devices Feb 27 14:06:39 hi all Feb 27 14:06:43 but just how smart is the fr? Feb 27 14:06:49 is this http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024 Feb 27 14:06:50 fixed? Feb 27 14:07:18 panicking: #1024? No, just a workaround found Feb 27 14:07:28 panicking: The most famous bug after #666 Feb 27 14:07:48 http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en Give me a hand please!!! Feb 27 14:08:04 are there alternative phones that can run opensource os? Feb 27 14:08:11 that are cheaper? Feb 27 14:09:06 jesperj: ehhhhh, doubtfull Feb 27 14:10:13 polaru: do you already know the workaround btw? Feb 27 14:10:20 toggles_w: it's plenty smart, it is effectively a protable linux box with a cellular modem, wifi, bt, and usb Feb 27 14:12:00 AntonTakk: + some buzz ;-) Feb 27 14:12:42 toggles_w: we prefer to call that "audible frequency generation" ;) Feb 27 14:13:22 its a feature, i tell you! :) Feb 27 14:13:25 ahh.. nice.. i need to get mine fixed somehow, people are starting to moan Feb 27 14:13:40 not that i notice, sounds good, if a little quiet, on my end ;-) Feb 27 14:14:02 toggles_w: and you get to listen to them moan ;-) Feb 27 14:14:25 lol Feb 27 14:15:24 i wish i could use my fr as my daily phone, but i'm using it for dev in the mean time Feb 27 14:15:55 oh, mean times ahead Feb 27 14:15:59 i like it, shr is at the point that you can use it Feb 27 14:16:19 eh, i'm not a fan of shr's ui Feb 27 14:16:21 what about Android? :O Feb 27 14:17:01 imo android's default ui really needs a bigger screen than the fr has Feb 27 14:17:25 also a hardware keyboard Feb 27 14:18:03 * AntonTakk has been hardware-spoiled by his htc device Feb 27 14:25:21 AntonTakk: so you'll help us bringing SHR to HTClinux? Feb 27 14:25:26 okay, so once and for all, what version of SHR does the daily-people use? Feb 27 14:27:27 mickey|zzZZzz: have you seen my message about rooting EU Dream? Feb 27 14:29:15 probably not Feb 27 14:29:20 but i already bought something now Feb 27 14:29:27 i settled for a HTC Raphael Feb 27 14:29:39 and am working on FSO support for that Feb 27 14:29:58 it's an incredible device Feb 27 14:30:05 just very bad software preinstalled ;) Feb 27 14:30:16 just like ours Feb 27 14:30:18 *giggle* Feb 27 14:30:22 does freerunner work with an external keyboard? Feb 27 14:30:26 mickey|zzZZzz: ok. But the news is that even EU Dream was rooted recently, requires 20EUR proprietary program (author says all money are going to support more reversing efforts). Feb 27 14:30:35 jesperj: with a usb adapter, yes. Feb 27 14:30:40 PaulFertser_: that's pretty good news Feb 27 14:30:44 20EUR is fair Feb 27 14:31:08 mickey|zzZZzz: 20EUR for one PC and you can root 6 devices using it. Feb 27 14:31:19 oh Feb 27 14:31:21 even better Feb 27 14:31:58 OTOH i heard that _any_ rooted phone (including stock ADP1) can't be used to buy apps from Android Market. It can also matter for some. Feb 27 14:32:33 hmm Feb 27 14:32:39 How's the kernel support for Raphael? Feb 27 14:32:40 Maxiosu_: ah cool. a regular usb small port to regular port adapter? and then just plug in usb keyboard in it? Feb 27 14:32:41 that may be a problem for those who just want to play Feb 27 14:32:48 jesperj: exactly. Feb 27 14:32:55 Maxiosu_: great. thanks Feb 27 14:32:58 mickey|zzZZzz: they can flash everything back obviously Feb 27 14:33:05 PaulFertser_: well, it comes from Android project, so it's pretty bad wrt. standard compliance Feb 27 14:33:19 but what works is Feb 27 14:33:24 screen Feb 27 14:33:30 usbeth Feb 27 14:33:35 hw keyboard Feb 27 14:33:38 touchscreen Feb 27 14:33:38 gsm Feb 27 14:33:48 no idea about audio Feb 27 14:33:58 no battery class yet Feb 27 14:34:03 backlight and leds are there Feb 27 14:34:11 no camera yet Feb 27 14:34:13 no wifi Feb 27 14:34:15 no BT Feb 27 14:34:17 no gps Feb 27 14:34:29 A "a luxury smart phone" you have now, Mickey :) Feb 27 14:35:07 hehe, well Feb 27 14:35:12 FR still rocks it feature wise Feb 27 14:35:23 but i have hopes to kick the htc-linux kernel devs a bit Feb 27 14:35:47 YEAH KICK THEM!!!!! Feb 27 14:35:47 "Input devices: resistive touchscreen interface and slide-out QWERTY keyboard" cool Feb 27 14:35:48 they just need to be motivated Feb 27 14:36:04 and i think they are motivated when they have a nice userland Feb 27 14:36:06 which means FSO and SHR Feb 27 14:36:13 imo Feb 27 14:36:42 so i'm waiting for SHR to put their stuff in OE Feb 27 14:36:46 godot comes to mind Feb 27 14:36:47 *sigh* Feb 27 14:36:53 and then i can play with it Feb 27 14:37:30 Godot, yeah... Feb 27 14:37:37 main problem is the HTC community is 90% Android folks Feb 27 14:37:47 they just want to port linux to run android Feb 27 14:37:57 which makes it a bit hard for me to motivate them doing standard kernel interfaces Feb 27 14:38:17 also emphasizing things like rebuildability Feb 27 14:38:19 and stuff Feb 27 14:38:26 too much shuffling around random binaries Feb 27 14:38:30 just like the MOTO hackerz Feb 27 14:38:38 (those not working for OpenEZX) Feb 27 14:39:08 but still,the hardware rocks Feb 27 14:39:17 It's sad to see so much efforts (and many talented people involved) going in the wrong direction :( Feb 27 14:39:34 hi~ Mickey Feb 27 14:40:45 hi harrytt! Feb 27 14:40:52 indeed Feb 27 14:41:03 but it's really hard unless we have a competetive alternative Feb 27 14:41:08 at least on one platform Feb 27 14:41:20 Professor, how are you doing? Feb 27 14:41:21 so that's why all my bets are on SHR Feb 27 14:41:27 :) Feb 27 14:41:30 heh Feb 27 14:41:53 good so far, with my team being a bit away from Taipei we make good progress given the limited resources we have :) Feb 27 14:42:11 good to hear you're back to Uni Feb 27 14:42:16 all the best for your studies Feb 27 14:42:23 I have filled out your survey Feb 27 14:42:31 i'll try to encourage some more people to participate Feb 27 14:42:32 hehe....thanks alot Feb 27 14:42:41 mickey|zzZZzz: are you sceptical about paroli? Feb 27 14:43:07 PaulFertser_: no, not at all, I think Paroli will be a nice end-user-type phone app. Feb 27 14:43:08 I have been new office 2days ago.. Feb 27 14:43:26 PaulFertser_: but probably not what the hacker dudes want Feb 27 14:43:46 PaulFertser_: and whether we can have both the end-user type PLUS the hacker type app in one remains to be seen Feb 27 14:43:56 mickey|zzZZzz: Oh! I thought that mirko is developing a decent app for everybody... Feb 27 14:43:59