**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 12 02:59:56 2009 Mar 12 03:13:53 * SeligArkin throws bacon to Dave Mar 12 03:19:03 Dave: here, have some toast Mar 12 03:50:28 :P Mar 12 03:50:38 * Dave throws a smoldering freerunner in seligarkin's general direction Mar 12 03:59:18 :O Mar 12 03:59:31 WHat dId YOU DO TO MY pheoN1? Mar 12 07:59:19 Dave: dunno, sorry Mar 12 07:59:47 Dave: nothing special anyway Mar 12 08:16:16 good morning Mar 12 08:44:06 openmoko: 03werner * r4959 10/developers/werner/gta03/cam/2Msamsungsettingcomment.ini: Samsung's reference settings for UXGA (1600x1200). MCLK = 27 MHz. Mar 12 08:59:57 morning Mar 12 09:46:25 DAVE! Mar 12 09:46:53 What a fine day it is, having dave in the channel! Mar 12 09:47:56 laen, you're lucky, it's everyday for you Mar 12 09:50:08 Indeed! Mar 12 09:52:48 Anyone have tried Qt Embedded 4.5 on Neo Freerunner? Mar 12 09:53:31 i tried the latest before they announced it being discontinues Mar 12 09:53:36 discontinued Mar 12 09:55:55 @tomboy64 not QtExtended, QtEmbedded Mar 12 09:59:42 Is Dave actually about? Mar 12 11:13:26 is anyone else running the latest SHR testing images k:02032009 r:03032009 ? Mar 12 11:14:16 tig|, i keep regular updates Mar 12 11:14:18 why? Mar 12 11:16:55 well I just flashed it, the kernel complains lots about hard links, then when E comes up it barfs and crashes with the white dialog box Mar 12 11:17:13 I am just going to flash the kernel from unstable Mar 12 11:17:29 as the one in testing is def broken Mar 12 11:20:57 well I may as well reflash with unstable Mar 12 13:14:34 howdy :-) Mar 12 13:15:41 does anyone know how to get rid of that annoying buzzing-sound the the callee hears? Mar 12 13:17:49 i found the bug described in the tracking system, but i simply cant believe that anyone would buy a phone that cant be used normally Mar 12 13:18:34 Neither can we. Mar 12 13:18:48 :-) Mar 12 13:18:59 at least the chat works Mar 12 13:19:21 Yet, here everyone is, and most seem quite content with an almost-useless phone, and some are raving fanboi's who will tear your head off and feed it to you if you disparage the gta02. Mar 12 13:20:05 Fun-fun, yes :) Mar 12 13:20:44 netti: YOU SAID SOMETHING AGAINST MY PHONE!!! DIE!!!! Mar 12 13:20:45 Shortly someone will come along, and inform you that the wiki has instructions that tell you how to open up your phone, remove and modify the internal shielding, and solder to surface-mount components in order to fix the buzz. And if you complain that you lack equipment, the solution given to you will be to find someone in your community who can do that soldering. Mar 12 13:21:36 BTW, for the buzz fix no need to mess with the shielding ;) Mar 12 13:21:50 alright alright - im deeply sorry, master Mar 12 13:21:53 :-) Mar 12 13:21:53 And if you complain that your reseller should have some responsibility for such a repair, you will be directed to contact your reseller -- even though NOBODY has EVER reported a case where a reseller has actually fixed the phone. Mar 12 13:22:27 netti: the problem is hardware, can't be fixed that easily with apt-get upgrade unfortunately. And most buyers weren't aware of it, i guess. Mar 12 13:22:38 Eventually you will join the majority of us here, who just hang around this channel in the lost hope that someday someone might have a real solution. Mar 12 13:23:43 Or the minority who has already impelmented the propesed fix and now the other party doesn't complain anymore. Mar 12 13:23:45 BTW, there IS a solution that needs software, but few people seem interested in making it work -- Paul has done a lot of work close to that area, though. Mar 12 13:23:53 That is getting bluetooth headsets to work. Mar 12 13:24:29 * mwester doesn't understand why so few seem to own bluetooth headsets. Mar 12 13:25:12 But a good bluetooth headset solves both the buzz and the echo problem, without requiring any surface-mount soldering or drilling and cutting. Mar 12 13:25:23 (or so we have been told) Mar 12 13:26:10 mwester: my own bluetooth experiments were a failure because the headset i borrowed seems to be somehow not compatible with CSR chip inside the freerunner. I think shoragan is very close to integrating the bluetooth solution into framework. Mar 12 13:26:26 I am eagerly awaiting. Mar 12 13:27:44 My problem is that I know a number of people who have access to world-class SMD equipment.... I'm here in Chicago near a very large company that does that sort of thing. But one can't just walk into one of their labs with an OpenMoko phone!! Mar 12 13:27:52 mwester: btw, do you know anything special about the echo that i'm unaware of? I've tried to experiment a bit and confirmed that the echo is caused by the case itself and that it's eliminated with %N0187 command for good. Mar 12 13:28:11 %N0187 does not eliminate it in all cases. Mar 12 13:28:16 just most. Mar 12 13:28:23 Which cases doesn't it cover? Mar 12 13:29:29 If I could sort that down precisely, we might be able to see if other parameters can "tune" it away. Mar 12 13:30:00 I still get complaints about "bits" of echos and strange artifacts in the conversation. Mar 12 13:30:17 Enough to know that I could never use the phone for any business phone calls. Mar 12 13:30:37 BTW, are you interested in using a wired headset for listening and internal mic for speaking? I think it'll eliminate echo and you'll be able to turn off %N to eliminate artifacts. Mar 12 13:30:39 But the far larger problem is the buzz. Mar 12 13:30:49 which isn't solved by the wired. Mar 12 13:31:26 But yes, that's how I know that the audio quality is the echo/%N thing -- it goes away with the wired headset. Mar 12 13:31:28 Buzz from the wire headset mic is not solved by any known rework, afaik. Mar 12 13:32:35 Ah - didn't know that. So even if I DO convince someone at said large company to rework one of my phones, I'd still buzz the ears off of someone on the other end if I used a wired headset. :( Mar 12 13:32:59 But after a rework you can use internal mic for speaking and headset for listening which will eliminate both buzz and echo. Mar 12 13:33:18 Or just go bluetooth, yes. Mar 12 13:33:45 :) I like bluetooth. It just makes me look weird, with that thing on my ear, but I'm ok with that. Mar 12 13:34:22 Somebody, please, make bluetooth work, and then I can stop complaining about the uselessness of the phone part of the Om devices. Mar 12 13:37:22 mwester: i wonder, is it really hard for you to find someone to do a rework or it's just you have no enough time/motivation to do it (or you think it's plain wrong to do it yourself)? Mar 12 13:39:06 I lack the equipment -- I'm ancient, my soldering gear is not designed for SMD stuff. I am not willing to sink another several hundred dollars into soldering gear and supplies to add to the already significant amount of money I've spent on the Om devices and accessories and SIM cards. Mar 12 13:39:34 This is Chicago -- phone stores here do not solder. Mar 12 13:40:02 You're lucky if the person at the counter knows anything more than how to swap the battery. Mar 12 13:40:28 You cannot just walk into a service facility here -- they don't do business with end-consumers, only with other businesses. Mar 12 13:40:55 So that means you need to find someone you know, who has access to a lab, and can do it for you, or add it to their order with a service facility of some sort. Mar 12 13:40:55 mwester: I think i should finally just try to take some piece of copper wire, sharpen it to make it flat screwdriver-like and use my old soldering iron to do rework on 0402 component. I'm sure it's possible without much trouble. Mar 12 13:42:37 PaulFert`: still, that misses the point for the vast majority of the purchasers of the phone -- I would be surprised if even half of them own a soldering iron of any sort. Mar 12 13:43:18 mwester: fully agree. Trisoft letter was very clear about all these problems. Mar 12 13:43:42 And about why and how OM-the-company sucks. Mar 12 13:44:21 Which letter was that? The one to trisoft? Mar 12 13:44:50 The one with their reply (quoted). Mar 12 13:44:51 The one ignored completely by Om. What a surprise. Sigh. Mar 12 13:46:02 mwester: subject: "Re: AW: Freerunner GSM Buzz fix, warranty and hopes..." Mar 12 13:46:13 anyway, off to a meeting! later! Mar 12 13:46:19 Luck! Mar 12 13:49:41 o_O Mar 12 13:54:45 DocScrutinizer: do you know if it is possible to automatically switch to usb host mode when a usb keyboard is inserted? Mar 12 13:55:06 DocScrutinizer: i mean, is there some way to figure that out automatically? Mar 12 13:55:17 not exactly, sorry Mar 12 13:56:15 basically ID pin of usb is supposed to distinguish between hostmode and device mode Mar 12 13:56:30 DocScrutinizer: but i use the same cable in both cases ;) Mar 12 13:56:33 lindi-: btw, how's your 'sploiting project? Mar 12 13:56:39 PaulFert`: stuck Mar 12 13:56:54 then you're out of luck probably Mar 12 13:57:48 lindi-: compare usb2-otg specs Mar 12 13:57:54 lindi-: :( is it because of s3c-udc driver? Mar 12 13:58:01 PaulFert`: that and many other things Mar 12 13:58:24 PaulFert`: i have not figured out how to ACK zero-length control transfers with gadgetfs API Mar 12 13:59:07 might be better just to forget that for a while and move to kernel space Mar 12 14:00:30 lindi-: in theory there are native ways to detect the pullup/down Rs on D+/- of usb and distinguish host and device. I'm not sure our SoC-usb1 interface can do this however Mar 12 14:01:02 DocScrutinizer: i could stay in device mode as long as charging works Mar 12 14:01:27 DocScrutinizer: when charging stops to work i could start changing between host and device mode in 10 second intervals or something :) Mar 12 14:01:41 DocScrutinizer: and stop at hostmode if lsusb sees devices and stop at device mode if charging starts to work again Mar 12 14:01:48 hmm, yes Mar 12 14:02:20 except for y-cable that may be a workaround Mar 12 14:04:20 DocScrutinizer: now I only need to somehow get the 3G usb stick fit inside the case :PP Mar 12 14:04:45 DocScrutinizer: at least would be nice if the usb cable did not stick out so badly Mar 12 14:06:01 put a hub inside as well, and contact it to some internal usb-lines ;) Mar 12 14:06:29 DocScrutinizer: the bluetooth chip is connected to the "second usb port", right? Mar 12 14:06:37 yup Mar 12 14:07:12 DocScrutinizer: so the hw is capable of talking-like-a-device to PC and talking-like-a-host to bluetooth at the same time Mar 12 14:07:20 right? Mar 12 14:08:05 as long as you're using separate physical interfaces Mar 12 14:09:17 you probably can't connect FR to a host-PC and a keyboard same time Mar 12 14:09:44 except if you sacrifice BT ;-) Mar 12 14:10:00 DocScrutinizer: would be nice to have both usb ports exposed indeed Mar 12 14:10:01 or move BT to a hub Mar 12 14:10:16 but space is always a problem Mar 12 14:10:35 * lindi- could have lived with a much larger phone. I used a communicator before this after all Mar 12 14:10:49 (space) add 8mm to device thickness Mar 12 14:11:02 ;) Mar 12 14:12:12 I'd prefer a larger device too. Mar 12 14:16:15 * johnsu01 has no audio for phone calls anymore :( Mar 12 14:21:18 johnsu01: sounds like alsa issue Mar 12 14:21:36 johnsu01: what if you restore gsmhandset.state during call? Mar 12 14:21:38 lindi-: yeah, I'm sure, just no idea what triggered it Mar 12 14:24:00 johnsu01: messed around with alsactl store and mixer? Mar 12 14:24:18 I mean, I can do that, but that seems to beg the question Mar 12 14:24:34 what messed with the state and/or why is the state not being restored on call Mar 12 14:25:05 johnsu01: i hope you ran oeventsd under strace :) Mar 12 14:25:07 johnsu01: if you restore the state manually, does it solve the issues for that particular call? Mar 12 14:25:48 yup, eiter statefile messed or alsactl restore failed Mar 12 14:26:04 * johnsu01 investigates Mar 12 14:26:23 triage: do alsactl restore gsmhamdset.state manually Mar 12 14:27:37 I'd assume update of statefiles to some kinky "special A7 version" ;-) Mar 12 14:29:51 well, me away now Mar 12 14:32:27 johnsu01: what distro are you using? Mar 12 14:32:42 well, I did a restore before placing the call, and now it works again Mar 12 14:32:59 PaulFert`: debian Mar 12 14:33:30 my theory is that the alsa settings got stuck somehow thanks to the lightsaber application Mar 12 14:33:33 johnsu01: Cool. You did a restore before even initiating the call? Restore what? Mar 12 14:33:50 PaulFert`: Yeah, before even placing the call, of the gsmhandset.state file. Mar 12 14:33:52 johnsu01: i mean was it gsmhandset state? Mar 12 14:34:31 johnsu01: looks like you need to go look at frameworkd log, because it'll probably show why it didn't it automatically. Mar 12 14:36:40 PaulFert`: Yep, there's the error Mar 12 14:36:49 says that SetScenario doesn't exist Mar 12 14:37:05 johnsu01: Wow, that's funny :) Mar 12 14:37:32 johnsu01: look for some traceback at module loading time, probably it'll shed more light on the root of the issue. Mar 12 14:38:24 johnsu01: don't afraid to look at FSO code, btw, it's quite understandable even to a person without python experience. Mar 12 14:38:53 PaulFert`: Not afraid, I can do at least some Python :) Mar 12 14:39:20 And grep helps a lot as usual to take a grasp of some unknown code. Mar 12 14:41:16 To me the words "RL" sound very ironic. It's like somebody thinks that the reality exist really exists. Mar 12 14:41:54 s^exist ^^ Mar 12 14:42:29 another domu Mar 12 14:42:43 * DocScrutinizer still searching dom0 Mar 12 14:42:52 PaulFert`: Hm, I'm not seeing any error prior to that about audio or alsa.. Mar 12 14:43:05 well, there are a few "No device for DAI..." messages Mar 12 14:43:41 eeek Mar 12 14:44:05 DocScrutinizer: ook! Mar 12 14:45:37 johnsu01: i think there was some error on loading the part of frameworkd that has SetScenario call. Mar 12 14:47:31 PaulFert`: Yeah, definitely, GetAvailableScenarios errors too Mar 12 14:48:20 could not impart audio.py: can't initialize module gst Mar 12 14:48:26 s/impart/import Mar 12 14:49:38 *sigh* gst Mar 12 14:51:05 pessimism ahanging Mar 12 14:51:17 it's possible I removed a dependency yesterday.. Mar 12 14:51:29 while trying to straighten out python-pygame sound issues Mar 12 14:53:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Harry Mar 12 14:54:09 give ma a hand, fill the survey... Mar 12 14:56:01 no, python-gst0.10 is still there, and framework doesn't complain when re-installed about anything missing Mar 12 15:01:33 thanks folks, this survey almost done..when I collected enough data that I can start the research.... Mar 12 15:04:09 johnsu01: still some gst missing because else you'd be able to import audio.py ;) Mar 12 15:04:26 TsaiHarry: Hey, you're lucky :) Mar 12 15:04:58 hey..paul how are you doing? Mar 12 15:06:19 TsaiHarry: Like usual. Sometimes extremely good, sometimes extremely bad. I hope it won't evolve into a bipolar disorder ;) How are you? Doing anything else besides the research? Mar 12 15:06:36 * bipolar glances around Mar 12 15:06:52 Oh fuck, somebody please protect me! Mar 12 15:07:11 what up? Mar 12 15:07:32 Bipolar is after me Mar 12 15:07:53 so what? Mar 12 15:07:55 bipolar: go away Mar 12 15:08:05 ;) Mar 12 15:08:37 TsaiHarry: have you ever read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder Mar 12 15:09:29 * bipolar gos back to sleep Mar 12 15:09:39 ha..bipolar go away.... Mar 12 15:09:49 sigh... I wish that worked Mar 12 15:11:10 Paul... I am at home almost 3 months....only one thing can do that is my thesis..... Mar 12 15:11:42 TsaiHarry: don't you have free time at all? Mar 12 15:12:09 I have alot..... Mar 12 15:13:07 TsaiHarry: Do you play any musical instrument? Mar 12 15:13:35 mixer ;-) Mar 12 15:13:49 ........... I don't..but I can sing Mar 12 15:14:05 hehe.... Mar 12 15:14:12 Cool :) Mar 12 15:22:02 where are you Paul?? Mar 12 15:22:37 TsaiHarry: still in Moscow, Russia :) Mar 12 15:23:11 Moscow.....I never been there... Mar 12 15:23:37 But I am expecting on day I will be there.. Mar 12 15:24:28 I'm expecting to be at CCC one day :) Mar 12 15:25:11 CCC? Mar 12 15:25:23 Hi ! I'm programming a gui alternative to zhone in Qt ... I have a problem in receiving a call ... I'm listening to signal 'Incoming' from '*.ophoned' , '/org/freesmartphone/Phone' but my program don't reveive the signal on incoming call ... Any idea ? Mar 12 15:25:35 max_posedon: the great IT security conference in Berlin. Mar 12 15:25:53 ah... ok... Mar 12 15:26:04 Think-Free: if you've already did you best to understand it yourself, ask at -cdevel, probably. Mar 12 15:26:27 Think-Free, shouldn't it be from *gsmd*? Mar 12 15:26:35 PaulFert : ok, tks Mar 12 15:26:49 max_posedon : i don't think so Mar 12 15:27:03 max_posedon: he's using the high-level interface. The least tested :) Mar 12 15:27:43 Think-Free have you some repository? I am interested about lookin' into source codes (just curious) Mar 12 15:27:49 I have ( with mdbus -s on ophoned, ... this signal : [SIGNAL] org.freesmartphone.Phone.Incoming( o:call ) Mar 12 15:28:19 for the phone part not yet Mar 12 15:28:49 joejoe : well i can do my best let me 30 min Mar 12 15:28:58 trying out SHR. the /usr/sbin/fso-settings file mentioned in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Framework-settings is no longer present. has the method of setting one's APN/USER/PASS changed? Mar 12 15:29:42 address will be : http://think-free.homelinux.org/project/neoManager Mar 12 15:32:05 max_posedon : it's strange, in gsmd, there is an IncomingMessage signal but any Incoming call, the only signal for call is org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.CallStatus Mar 12 15:32:35 Think-Free: btw i noticed some discussion in dev mainlinglist on topic of controlling framework - so i stored the main points of discussion to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenmokoFramework/mdbus (maybe it can help you, maybe it is already out of date) Mar 12 15:33:19 ok, tks, i'll look at this Mar 12 15:36:16 Think-Free: btw, do you know about FSO specs location? Mar 12 15:36:39 Think-Free: one of the aims of the FSO project is to make a decent fully-documented API. Mar 12 15:36:39 joejoe : the phone part is in my repository, a testing image of all my work will be available in 2-3 weeks i think Mar 12 15:37:06 Does open moko supporst java platform ? Mar 12 15:37:07 Think-Free: thank you Mar 12 15:37:39 I mean if mobile provider also gives an option to watch TV from moble phone ... Mar 12 15:37:56 PaulFert : i'm using this ( http://docs.freesmartphone.org/ ) documentation with the help of mdbus Mar 12 15:38:00 Does open moko supports java apps ? Mar 12 15:38:18 frojnd, there has been some work for java apps, but btw, probably not feasible Mar 12 15:38:38 bandwidth and all Mar 12 15:38:39 Think-Free: also looking at the FSO source is easy and helps ;) Mar 12 15:38:54 joejoe : it's a svn repo ;) Mar 12 15:39:08 frojnd, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Java Mar 12 15:40:06 Question about tangoGPS, is it possible for me to make another blip appear representing another gps device's location? Mar 12 15:41:24 you dislike small yellow person?) Mar 12 15:42:14 NO Mar 12 15:42:14 no I want to make my bt gps's location appear, compair the two blip's locations.:P Mar 12 15:42:30 it already does? Mar 12 15:42:33 SeligArkin, they shouldn't deviate :-P Mar 12 15:43:06 they -shouldn't- but this was a rather cheap gps bluetooth thing. :P Mar 12 15:43:16 yes... no tv untill UMTS 3G will be implemented in open moko, something that is urgent urgent Mar 12 15:44:29 * SeligArkin looks at where ups says her phone is Mar 12 15:44:49 * SeligArkin throws something at ups to juse beam the phone to her Mar 12 15:46:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Harry Mar 12 15:46:26 fill the survey...thanks for your help Mar 12 15:46:44 * SeligArkin considers Mar 12 15:49:44 http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/March2009/STMicroelectronics Enables Motion_Sensing_in_Openmoko_Mobile_Handsets.html Mar 12 15:50:08 * SeligArkin stares at slaxxin Mar 12 15:51:11 ouch those lazer beam eyes work well Mar 12 15:51:39 or are those just green contacts Mar 12 15:52:21 are those in(the gta03 or in the gta02? Mar 12 15:56:12 slaxxin: ...that link is broken Mar 12 15:58:13 SeligArkin: it isn't but you will have to copy and paste the full URL not just click on it Mar 12 15:58:59 Well it should be %20 not a space so there. :P Mar 12 15:59:16 SeligArkin: well try this then : http://tinyurl.com/czfetq Mar 12 16:02:26 * SeligArkin rubs her chin Mar 12 16:02:52 sorry Mar 12 16:24:43 hii Mar 12 16:25:10 I need to work and discuss my idea in relation to gsoc Mar 12 16:25:18 to whom I shud tlk Mar 12 17:00:00 PaulFert`: Ew, here's what happens when I start a python shell and try to import gst Mar 12 17:00:03 ERROR: Caught a segmentation fault while loading plugin file: Mar 12 17:00:06 /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpeg.so Mar 12 17:08:37 johnsu01: ah, then remove the package or this file Mar 12 17:55:18 johnsu01: ffmpeg??? Mar 12 18:12:50 PaulFert`, DocScrutinizer: Yeah, removing that gstreamer ffmpeg package fixed the problem. Mar 12 18:13:40 johnsu01: cool. Was it installed as some dependency or have you done it yourself? Mar 12 18:14:48 johnsu01: Also probably it'd be a good idea to write a mail to smartphone-userland or shr mailing list to warn other users of this unexpected side-effect. Mar 12 18:15:16 PaulFert`: I suspect I installed it myself Mar 12 18:22:43 incompatible ABI Mar 12 18:23:16 common issue it segfaults on libload Mar 12 18:23:41 (wild guess ;) Mar 12 18:25:52 good thinking. OABI compat is disabled on the GTA02 (only enabled on the GTA01) Mar 12 18:36:10 Squeeeeeeeeeeeee Mar 12 18:36:41 tomorrow my freerunner should be in! :D Mar 12 18:39:27 SeligArkin: sweet! :-) Mar 12 18:43:56 SeligArkin: in where? ;) Mar 12 18:44:06 in my hand Mar 12 18:44:24 and there will be blood ifI have to wait to monday Mar 12 18:44:36 Oh, good it's not what i thought about. Mar 12 18:44:56 espicaly if it ends up waiting less than 20 miles away from me... Mar 12 18:45:03 SM2k: any status update about your issues? Mar 12 18:45:19 PaulFert`: I switched to SHR Mar 12 18:45:21 PaulFert`: I don't think it would fit up my bum, and I sadly don't have the other input. Mar 12 18:45:27 GPS works in that distro Mar 12 18:45:41 PaulFert`: but as far as GPRS I'm still rather mystified Mar 12 18:45:50 I am partialy considering just doing lfs onto the phone... Mar 12 18:46:10 that would let me apply all the little patches people make for it to be betterer Mar 12 18:46:38 SeligArkin: you can do the same with OE Mar 12 18:46:58 SM2k: so, still some cryptic errors with GPRS? Mar 12 18:47:31 yeah. I know my acct is set up for gprs access, and there's service in my area Mar 12 18:48:15 having trouble issuing AT commands directly to the modem, the way the expect script does, cause that'd likely tell me which CME error code I'm getting Mar 12 18:48:26 which would narrow down the wtf factor substantially Mar 12 18:48:55 SM2k: have you tried mickeyterm? Mar 12 18:49:05 never heard of it Mar 12 18:49:32 do I need to shut down otehr services possibly talking to the modem before playing with it? Mar 12 18:49:34 SM2k: with it you can enter any commands without troubles even while frameworkd is running. Mar 12 18:49:41 ah nice Mar 12 18:50:40 I would have assumed 'mickeyterm /dev/ttySAC0' but that's clearly not the right args :-) Mar 12 18:57:25 well heck. when I enter the same commands the expect script di: Mar 12 18:57:27 did Mar 12 18:57:32 http://slexy.org/view/s2cmN4lG3Z << this post Mar 12 18:58:05 http://slexy.org/view/s20HzOrrsz Mar 12 18:59:30 the thing is. CONNECT happens right away when I type those items by hand, which would make the expect script happy... so this CME ERROR is different than the one I was experiencing yesterday Mar 12 19:00:59 SM2k: try with the normal method then Mar 12 19:01:04 actually, one side effect of mucking with mickeyterm: I think I lost my GPS signal. aren't they on the same bus? Mar 12 19:01:26 SM2k: they aren't Mar 12 19:02:06 PaulFert`: the "normal method" I've been trying is http://slexy.org/view/s21WLZaknG running that script Mar 12 19:02:10 SM2k: you don't set APN while trying to connect by hand? Mar 12 19:02:48 root@om-gta02 ~ $ ./gprs/connect.sh Mar 12 19:02:48 /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device: ActivateContext failed: org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.NoChannel Mar 12 19:02:57 SM2k: exit mickeyterm first Mar 12 19:03:03 SM2k: calypso has only 4 virtual channels Mar 12 19:03:05 Hi, I followed the instructions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Knjrepository to install knjMokoWifi, but it said that it was unable to find php526 and php526-gtk dependencies. Did I miss a repository? Mar 12 19:03:14 how? it doesn't want to let go Mar 12 19:03:23 SM2k: EOF? Mar 12 19:03:44 nerp. didn't I finally just used ctrl-\ but that left my login session borked Mar 12 19:05:06 SM2k: Sending EOF (C-d) always worked for me. Mar 12 19:05:48 I've never gotten any other response that that NoChannel unless I bounce frameworkd Mar 12 19:06:12 SM2k: exiting mickeyterm properly will release the channel! Mar 12 19:06:34 it did realease accoridng to logread Mar 12 19:08:00 http://slexy.org/view/s2PMfDhcMV Mar 12 19:08:48 mickeyterm exited and released. I retried teh connect script ala dbus. got the note about mknod... did that, then tried again. still got /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device: ActivateContext failed: org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.NoChannel Mar 12 19:09:09 SM2k: pppd is unable to open the /dev/ppp device Mar 12 19:09:24 SM2k: check no mickeyterm and pppd is running. Mar 12 19:09:46 root@om-gta02 ~ $ ps -A | grep mickeyterm Mar 12 19:09:47 root@om-gta02 ~ $ ps -A | grep ppp Mar 12 19:09:47 root@om-gta02 ~ $ Mar 12 19:09:56 root@om-gta02 ~ $ ls -l /dev/ppp Mar 12 19:09:56 crw-r--r-- 1 root root 108, 0 Mar 12 15:05 /dev/ppp Mar 12 19:10:32 SM2k: looks good Mar 12 19:11:06 dbus is the right way to bring up a ppp itnerface over gprs right? Mar 12 19:11:18 SM2k: yes Mar 12 19:12:27 * SM2k scratches head. so how come there's no channels? you said "calypso only has 4" Mar 12 19:12:44 Mar 12 15:05:39 om-gta02 local0.info /usr/sbin/gsm0710muxd[1524]: gsm0710muxd.c:1474:extract_frames(): Logical channel 5 opened Mar 12 19:12:45 but that would have been the 5th Mar 12 19:13:02 SM2k: yes, that's wrong. For some reason the 4th wasn't closed. Mar 12 19:13:13 would rebooting help? Mar 12 19:13:54 SM2k: killing gsm0710muxd should be enough. Mar 12 19:13:58 at least you're confirming that I'm on the right track :-) Mar 12 19:14:42 ah! root@om-gta02 ~ $ ./gprs/connect.sh Mar 12 19:14:42 /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device: ActivateContext failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown Mar 12 19:15:09 an entirely new error :-) so yes killing gsm0710muxd did free up a channel Mar 12 19:15:46 SM2k: hm, properly working frameworkd always restart gsm0710muxd if it gets killed. Mar 12 19:15:55 SM2k: probably you need to wait 10 sec after you killed it. Mar 12 19:17:07 gsm0710muxd never came back Mar 12 19:18:00 SM2k: hm, strange. You should investigate frameworkd log probably. It should receive HUP on all channels after killing and restart it. Mar 12 19:18:39 is the frameworkd log mixed in with syslog? Mar 12 19:18:47 SM2k: well, it depends... Mar 12 19:19:10 SM2k: on /etc/frameworkd.conf and syslogd.conf probably. Mar 12 19:21:31 http://slexy.org/view/s2w9ADmJ6R not sure what I was doing when those log events occured but... looks like it didn't detect gsm0710muxd dying Mar 12 19:22:25 SM2k: UP condition on modem channel. The multiplexer is probably dead. Launching reinit... Mar 12 19:22:54 but ps -A | grep gsm0710muxd didn't show any results after that Mar 12 19:23:57 SM2k: hm, strange probably it's some issue with dbus configuration. Restart frameworkd for now. Mar 12 19:24:14 that makes the x session on the handset cranky btw Mar 12 19:24:20 I lose all t-Mobile signal too Mar 12 19:39:33 tangofriends says im in minnesota Mar 12 19:46:06 slaxxin: how's weather in Minnesota? ;D Mar 12 19:46:10 PaulFert`: I got annoyed and rebooted. this time I ran mknod /dev/ppp c 108 0 manually before attempting the dbus connect script. seems that made things *much* better Mar 12 19:46:13 http://slexy.org/view/s20fnDCKM4 Mar 12 19:46:28 seems like the remote side hung up on me? Mar 12 19:47:08 after just 10min of a dead line? how unpolite! ;) Mar 12 19:47:24 0 seconds of dead line :-) Mar 12 19:47:57 by the time I logged in with a different terminal and looked for any new network interfaces (ppp0 for instance) it had already gone dead Mar 12 19:51:34 whooo! Mar 12 19:52:33 SM2k: looks like your ISP doesn't like some pppd parameter. Mar 12 19:53:16 I have a ppp0 now. I changed to the wap.voicestream.com address Mar 12 19:53:23 I think that was supposed to be for SMS tho Mar 12 19:53:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS at least that's what I took the table there to mean. T-Mobile's my carrier Mar 12 19:54:06 SM2k: wap looks very nasty. I'd be afraid to even try that, because they might charge freaking too much for that. Mar 12 19:54:20 what is WAP? Mar 12 19:54:37 SM2k: you better find some info about GPRS for your provider in general (like hooking up motorola to a GNU/Linux PC or smth like that). Mar 12 19:55:12 SM2k: WAP is some strange http-like protocol along with html-like markup, used mostly for downloading stupid ringtones and stuff. Mar 12 19:55:25 gotcha Mar 12 19:56:05 SM2k: (i'm not sure it's entirely correct, but i know for sure that WAP traffic sometimes is fucking expensive) Mar 12 19:56:16 rgr Mar 12 19:56:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/T-Mobile_pppd_scripts Mar 12 19:56:35 ppl seem to use it with varying mileage Mar 12 19:57:02 SM2k: are you sure you have activated "Internet over GPRS" and not "WAP over GPRS" for your cell account? Mar 12 19:57:31 it's a pay-as-you-go card Mar 12 19:57:50 SM2k: mickey said that ATD*99# should work regardless of any cell provider, he's sure of that. Mar 12 19:58:06 the T-Mobile free data on their pay as you go service is restricted to certain WAP sites only Mar 12 19:58:08 SM2k: so, i don't know what comes with it. Mar 12 19:59:38 SM2k: why don't you just call their support line and ask them if they allow "Internet" access (if you're not afraid, ask for "tethering"). Mar 12 20:00:05 how would they know I was tethering if I used the phone to NAT? :-) Mar 12 20:00:19 the proxy won't allow you anywhere else Mar 12 20:00:43 all other ports are blocked, and any traffic sent through for WAP access goes through a transparent proxy that doesn't allow you anywhere except sites allowed by it Mar 12 20:01:49 depending on the market you used to be able to go to other places, but T-Mobile has since smartened up and secured things Mar 12 20:01:52 file: AT&T seem to be stupid bastards. No surprise they're promoting ishit and stuff. Mar 12 20:02:20 in fact you used to be able to roam in Canada using a T-Mobile prepaid SIM and have full data access for free Mar 12 20:02:32 Confirms "stupid" Mar 12 20:02:40 but that cost them lots of money I'm sure so that was also secured Mar 12 20:02:54 (ah, it's t-mobile... Sorry, at&t :) ) Mar 12 20:03:45 Data is stupidly expensive in Canada - it would cost me $30/MB on my prepaid Fido card Mar 12 20:04:32 SM2k: so the moral of the story is while you may be able to connect and tether... you won't be able to go anywhere Mar 12 20:07:55 file: gotcha. so how's the billing generally work for data? billed per bytes transferred vs minutes connected? Mar 12 20:08:32 SM2k: in a general sense bytes transferred, for T-Mobile pay as you go it is not billed though - and there are no options to add it Mar 12 20:08:43 file: What's up with the USA and Canada? They can't prohibit software patents, can't revert DMCA (what a name!), can't do anti-monopoly measures properly (Microsoft is still quite happy, as the telcos). When will it end?.. Mar 12 20:09:20 PaulFert`: when a giant pink flamingo flies past your window Mar 12 20:09:31 And i'm not even talking about pure politics stuff like "patriot act". Mar 12 20:10:39 Hey, at least we protested our version of the DMCA (see http://www.michaelgeist.ca/) Mar 12 20:10:51 file: so it's free, but useless. :-) Mar 12 20:10:59 SM2k: yes. Mar 12 20:11:06 nice Mar 12 20:11:19 for prepaid data the option is AT&T afaik Mar 12 20:11:24 $20/100MB Mar 12 20:31:39 how can I get help from fyp distribution? Mar 12 20:31:56 hello anyone? Mar 12 20:32:03 llo knguyen Mar 12 20:32:07 just ask it :) Mar 12 20:32:16 (i won't be able to help you, but maybe someone else might :)) Mar 12 20:33:30 i want to customize the fyp to thumb-friendly Mar 12 20:33:42 are there any resource for learning? Mar 12 20:34:59 knguyen: isn't it ~debian..? Mar 12 20:35:10 yes Mar 12 20:35:39 a debian on freerunner with lxde desktop environment, i believe Mar 12 20:44:12 dsafknsdjkansakdjlfnsadlk great Mar 12 20:44:27 I borked my laptop screen now Mar 12 20:44:31 SeligArkin: did you get your FR :)? Mar 12 20:44:32 :/ Mar 12 20:44:34 trying to update the gsm firmware on my 01bv4 -- does anyone know of a console image that works on it & sets up networking properly? Mar 12 20:44:57 I can'topen the lid without the bottom andtop halfs of the screen prying apart! Mar 12 20:45:48 Quinn_Storm: sorry, I only own a gta02 and DocScrutinizer 's image worked great on that Mar 12 20:46:27 it won't on GTA01 though :-/ Mar 12 20:47:14 y3qh Mar 12 20:47:17 yeah^ Mar 12 20:47:22 someone suggested using SHR in -devel Mar 12 20:47:55 mwester: did an update on GTA01. I don't think he used a special console image anyway. Probably he just followed the instructions on gsm/flashing and killed all processes occupying the modem Mar 12 20:48:32 I'm gonna check with the SHR image, see if it will work Mar 12 20:48:59 Quinn_Storm: which image are U using ight now? Mar 12 20:49:18 I've done the update on GTA01 as well but I don't remember which image I used Mar 12 20:49:33 I tried an fso-console image pulled from downloads.om.o but it didn't set up its networking properly (mounted the image, no /etc/network/interfaces even) Mar 12 20:50:20 Quinn_Storm: the image doesn't matter. If you have any image running, it'll be ok, provided you kill all the processes that access /dev/ttySAC0 Mar 12 20:50:26 so you never had any working image on your freshly bought GTA01? Mar 12 20:50:36 ah, I had a ton of images on it Mar 12 20:50:42 then I set it aside for months Mar 12 20:50:56 now I want to do the firmware update since it may actually be usable afterwords Mar 12 20:51:03 (do you know if it enables the US bands properly?) Mar 12 20:51:36 Quinn_Storm: nothing to do with the bands Mar 12 20:51:42 Quinn_Storm: the phone is tri-band like it or not. Mar 12 20:51:44 Quinn_Storm: us-bands are dependent of type of your device: 850 vs 900 Mar 12 20:52:13 850 is US Mar 12 20:52:18 yeah, I got a bv4 and I don't know if it supports the us bands or not (got it for free a long while ago while I was working for FIC/everex on another project) Mar 12 20:52:27 900 sane rest of the world ;) Mar 12 20:52:54 hehe Mar 12 20:53:22 There were only a very few hand-built gta01's that did 850MHz, and those were done just before the gta02 began shipping IIRC Mar 12 20:53:44 mwester-laptop: ah ok Mar 12 20:53:45 So it's safe to say that your device is a euromoko. Mar 12 20:54:38 grr, unfortunately I do live in the US so that's annoying Mar 12 20:55:10 Quinn_Storm: so you're restricted to 1800/1900 band Mar 12 20:55:30 and IIRC, t-mobile doesn't have many towers that aren't 850 Mar 12 20:55:43 dunno Mar 12 20:57:13 ah well, maybe it'll make a neat pim Mar 12 20:58:33 Quinn_Storm: lol Mar 12 20:58:47 just don't want to let it sit there doing nothing Mar 12 21:03:12 duh, wiki down? Mar 12 21:03:27 Yes, it already happened today Mar 12 21:04:14 fsck Mar 12 21:04:24 time for a break Mar 12 21:10:06 Quinn_Storm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM_850_test Mar 12 21:13:24 Hey, first rant about my interview with Mirko! Yay. OM-the-company shouldn't act openly because stupid users are wasting OM's time. FTW! Mar 12 21:15:10 interesting Mar 12 21:18:50 linky Mar 12 21:22:58 oh, nevermind, found it Mar 12 21:30:59 PaulFert`: link? Mar 12 21:31:32 mwester-laptop: community-list Mar 12 21:31:50 ah, I don't subscribe to that. i'll go check the archives. Mar 12 21:32:01 mwester-laptop: http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3cm2mybv3qii.fsf%40home.pavel.comp%3e Mar 12 21:33:30 heh! The archtypical Openmoko Fanboi response. Sigh. Mar 12 21:34:00 mwester-laptop: do you think my "interview" was ok? Mar 12 21:38:07 I don't have any issues with it, but I can see that the Fanboi's would be upset. Mar 12 21:39:21 mwester-laptop: even without my direct comments or judgements. Heh, let him live in his om-is-the-greatest world... Mar 12 21:40:29 grr, it failed on my first try to write it, and now I can't get fluid to start writing again Mar 12 21:40:56 [flash operation timeout] Mar 12 21:41:28 Quinn_Storm: use the force^W ROM bootloader Mar 12 21:41:37 tried it, didn't work yet Mar 12 21:41:48 Quinn_Storm: what does it output? Mar 12 21:42:39 Quinn_Storm: you should have tried ROM from the beginning actually Mar 12 21:44:14 it hangs at waiting for the bootloader Mar 12 21:46:10 Quinn_Storm: kill fluid.exe, repeat everything from the beginning, but start fluid without flow control and with -oo -od13,13 Mar 12 21:46:30 ok Mar 12 21:47:55 hmm, so far still hanging at bootloader: reset target, after I issue the b7=1 command on the other terminal Mar 12 21:48:45 Quinn_Storm: rebooting might help... Mar 12 21:49:29 ok, trying that Mar 12 21:54:03 will android apps run on debian? Mar 12 21:54:32 knguyen: not without any special efforts, afaik Mar 12 21:57:14 [wandering afk, bbs] Mar 12 21:59:05 PaulFert`: are you my mummy? Mar 12 21:59:57 SeligArkin: O_o not that i know of Mar 12 22:02:41 SeligArkin: Why do you ask? Mar 12 22:02:53 mental instability? Mar 12 22:03:11 * SeligArkin thinks she lost the last of her sanity for today... mind has shut down Mar 12 22:03:22 Hi, I can't seem to get my nand-flash backed up, everytime I try to backup the root filesystem it will give me the following error "dfu_upload error -108" exactly when the file is 246.1MB big (258076672 bytes), is this a bug or what ? Mar 12 22:03:44 Bert_2: where are you backing it up to? Mar 12 22:04:23 SeligArkin: my own system (plenty of space) Mar 12 22:04:42 hmm... how are you backing it up? Mar 12 22:04:50 SeligArkin: oh, i think i know how it feels Mar 12 22:05:09 SeligArkin: sudo dfu-util -a rootfs -R -U good-rootfs.jffs2 Mar 12 22:05:21 SeligArkin: I put it in /usr/bin and /usr/sbin Mar 12 22:05:29 (the dfu-util binary Mar 12 22:05:47 * SeligArkin stares Mar 12 22:05:59 wouldn't that save the backup to the moko? Mar 12 22:06:43 SeligArkin: nope, I run the command from within /home/bert on my PC when the moko is in USB mode and it starts backing up on my system Mar 12 22:06:55 I see... Mar 12 22:07:17 * SeligArkin shrugs and goes back to building a neo freerunner out of legos Mar 12 22:07:30 SeligArkin: ow you don't have a neo ? Mar 12 22:07:46 not yet, it is on its way Mar 12 22:07:54 I should have it by tomorrow Mar 12 22:07:56 ... Mar 12 22:07:58 bye Mar 12 22:08:09 bernt: There was an upload bug in uboot btw. Mar 12 22:08:31 PaulFert`: I see, and what kind of bug is this ? Mar 12 22:08:56 Bert_2: inability to upload? ;) Why don't you do tar | scp or smth like that instead? Mar 12 22:09:46 PaulFert`: I'm not backing up an sd card but the nand, so don't I need a jffs2 ? Mar 12 22:10:20 * SeligArkin nomnomnoms down a gentoo stage 3 taball Mar 12 22:11:02 Bert_2: with your FR booted it doesn't matter. You can even do dd if=/dev/mtdblk6 | nc desktop 7777 or smth like that :) Mar 12 22:11:22 Hmm,what happen to the gentoo entry on the distributions thingy on the wiki? was the gentoo install thingy ma jigger discontunued? Mar 12 22:13:05 PaulFert`: what's smth ? Mar 12 22:13:24 something Mar 12 22:14:25 Bert_2: i mean you should get the idea. :) Or just use scp Mar 12 22:14:58 PaulFert`: but I can basically dd it to my SD card or something similar ? Mar 12 22:15:16 Bert_2: sure Mar 12 22:15:32 PaulFert`: awesome, thx Mar 12 22:15:47 PaulFert`: do you also know some things about android on the FR ? Mar 12 22:16:11 SeligArkin: Gentoo team is very active btw, they are doing a nice job crosscompiling stuff for FR Mar 12 22:16:18 Bert_2: I know. Mar 12 22:16:33 Bert_2: ANDROID SUCKS on every platform because it was designed to SUCK Mar 12 22:16:57 PaulFert`: I know, I just want to try it out (just like any distro, except gentoo) Mar 12 22:16:58 PaulFert`: I am currently installing it back on my laptop Mar 12 22:17:00 Bert_2: (that should be read as "i don't like android because it's not hackers-oriented platform") Mar 12 22:17:07 PaulFert`: I am sick of ubuntu breaking things on me Mar 12 22:17:47 * SeligArkin tries to remember whether her laptop is i686 or not Mar 12 22:17:50 SeligArkin: i've tried to set ubuntu for my pal, and it wasn't as fun as i hoped. I'd go Debian on every new PC i'd get. Though gentoo is fun. Mar 12 22:18:14 SeligArkin: And gentoo team tries to crosscompile everything, unlike debian folks. Mar 12 22:18:31 PaulFert`: I am overwriting my windows partition with gentoo, so if I get sick of it, I don't need to worry about putting everything back Mar 12 22:18:54 what is pushing me over the edge is ubuntu keeps overwriting my hostname with localhost.localdomain and it is royaly fucking things up one me Mar 12 22:19:02 s/one me/on me/ Mar 12 22:19:02 SeligArkin meant: what is pushing me over the edge is ubuntu keeps overwriting my hostname with localhost.localdomain and it is royaly fucking things up on me Mar 12 22:19:14 interesting Mar 12 22:19:25 Bert_2: note that the dfu-util upload bug (actually a bug in u-boot IIRC) would corrupt your data even if the transfer appeared to be OK Mar 12 22:19:31 SeligArkin: the first thing i did when i got my laptop is to install gentoo overwriting everything :) Mar 12 22:19:41 I use to have gentoo on this Mar 12 22:19:47 mmontour: okey, that sounds quite nasty Mar 12 22:19:50 but I got sick of having to compile everything Mar 12 22:19:58 SeligArkin: I can imagine that Mar 12 22:20:00 now I kind of miss thepower it came with having to compile everything Mar 12 22:20:24 SeligArkin: same with me, but i still use gentoo on my laptop and Debian at my work pc. Mar 12 22:20:41 to be honest,I need a new laptop, this one is literaly falling apart at this point Mar 12 22:21:18 And i say it again, i need a brand-new friend... Mar 12 22:21:24 heh Mar 12 22:21:27 don't we all. :P Mar 12 22:21:47 SeligArkin: that's why mine is 10 years old, weighs more than a truck and has as much RAM and Mhz as the FR has Mar 12 22:21:55 SeligArkin: do you need a friend who doesn't need you? Mar 12 22:22:51 Bert_2: mine isn't that old,but it is starting to get 'slow' compaired to what I experience with other laptops Mar 12 22:23:00 * SeligArkin has a XPS M140 Mar 12 22:23:22 * Bert_2 put all his money into desktop and FR Mar 12 22:29:42 * mwester-laptop puts all his money into college tuition payments. Mar 12 22:30:04 wuss! :P Mar 12 22:31:18 * SeligArkin hopes her phone gets in tomorrow Mar 12 22:31:54 Yeah, I know. I sent a letter to Obama with my kid's tuition bills, but apparently he's too busy to pay them. So I had to pay the bill myself. Sucks. Mar 12 22:32:36 At least now the fanboys don't tell me that i'm insane and rude. Instead they hail OM. I'd wish they commented on Trisoft letter instead. Mar 12 22:36:10 mwester-laptop: I was being silly, I do that alot you may find Mar 12 22:36:57 So am I. I wouldn't waste a stamp sending anything to Obama. Mar 12 22:37:30 Now we know why you don't like him. He failed to pay your bills :) Mar 12 22:37:49 heh Mar 12 22:38:07 PaulFert`: Its a strange world, isn't it -- Apple delivers a product that works, and gets slammed -- Om can't deliver hardly any of the basic functionality of a phone, yet they are lauded. Mar 12 22:38:22 mwester-laptop: indeed! Mar 12 22:38:45 But on the other hand at some stage Apple has succeeded so people expect more :) Mar 12 22:39:07 has anyone tried using pyBluez on FR? i keep running into "error accessing device" for some reason Mar 12 22:39:28 timur: what distro? AFAIK 2008.12 has broken bluez.. Mar 12 22:39:34 mwester-laptop: do you think "Would you mind to share your comments on TRIsoft letter as well?" is an appropriate question to ask a OM fanboy? Mar 12 22:39:48 rhkfin, this is 2008.10 Mar 12 22:39:51 PaulFert`: it is, yes Mar 12 22:40:17 and i'm not sure what the issue is. i guess i'll have to dive into bluez code Mar 12 22:40:18 timur: hmm. neverheard.. they've released 2008.9 and 2008.12.. I suppose you mean 2008.9.. I don't know about it. Mar 12 22:40:34 yea, i do mean 2008.9 Mar 12 22:40:36 * eolson thinks the iphone just works poorly Mar 12 22:40:38 sorry Mar 12 22:40:40 :) Mar 12 22:40:58 mwester-laptop: (strange world) it basically suggests that many people don't care about "works" as much as others. And to me it's ok, i don't care too. Mar 12 22:41:41 * rooly is just upset that qte is being abandoned Mar 12 22:42:34 I think you are wasting your time to talk with a Fanboi at all, frankly. And I think its about expectations. The problem is that Openmoko did a TERRIBLE job of setting and managing realistic expectations. On the other hand, Apple is a master at expectations and marketing. Mar 12 22:43:32 second this.. Mar 12 22:44:39 * mmontour escaped from Apple's reality-distortion field after having two devices go from "just works" to "just bricked" Mar 12 22:45:10 One was an Airport Express base station killed by an official firmware update, the other was an ipod shuffle that just died one day Mar 12 22:47:16 "reality-distortion" is right. Consider the 3G iPod -- a perfectly useable device for today, but it's being thrown away because Apple has convinced people that they must have the new iPod touch or the other newer models. Thus, they have effectively countered the failure issue by keeping people wanting the newer ones. Brilliant. Mar 12 22:47:38 * eolson 's wife just had an apple turn into a brick too. She got a new ipod, and is really frustrated companies are making it really hard to get your old itunes or cds on on there. Mar 12 22:47:55 mwester: at least apple updates the software Mar 12 22:48:04 mwester: nokai just dumps devices to the market and forgets them Mar 12 22:48:13 Now consider the highly-skeptical Om community, only some of whom will throw away their gta02s and line up to buy the gta03. Most here will wait to see if it actually works. Mar 12 22:48:26 mwester: apple is into service business, nokia is into product business Mar 12 22:48:42 mwester-laptop: true.. Or depends 'how much better' gta03 is.. Mar 12 22:48:58 moo: correct - nokia could have blown Openmoko out of the water by coming up with an n810 with a GSM in it. Game Over for Openmoko. Mar 12 22:49:14 mwester: it takes at least 70 engineers and 3 years to make a decend mobile phone software stack Mar 12 22:49:16 Waiting for it to happen this summer..? Mar 12 22:49:24 rhkfin: better? without wifi and likely gps i can't see how it can be any better Mar 12 22:49:27 mwester: openmoko doesn't have it Mar 12 22:49:58 ok, even weirder, C code runs fine. maybe my pyBluez cross-compiled package is not quite right. heh Mar 12 22:50:01 moo: correct -- openmoko counted on the community writing the software, but they didn't actually hire anyone who could manage and coordinate the community. Mar 12 22:50:03 mwester: the best chance would be adopt android or fork it Mar 12 22:50:22 moo: that's what Andy has been thinking for the past year, I have concluded. Mar 12 22:50:24 PaulFert`: Not being too closely following the gta03 rumors--but it doesn't have wifi or gps or..? Mar 12 22:50:34 mwester: i wouldn't count some free software lunatics on my software Mar 12 22:50:41 mwester: it took 15 years before linux caught fire Mar 12 22:50:52 mwester-laptop: I really love to see that others agree that Openmoko failed to manage the community.. Mar 12 22:50:57 rhkfin: not rumors even. Andy removed wlan stack from the kernel recently. And said there will not be any trouble with wifi firmware for sure. Mar 12 22:50:58 it doesn't matter how good the hardware is Mar 12 22:51:03 because applications will still crash Mar 12 22:51:07 and it will be still unusable Mar 12 22:51:13 PaulFert`: AUCH!! Mar 12 22:51:36 rhkfin: don't say it on community loudly, or they all will start stupid discussions again. Mar 12 22:51:50 PaulFert`: I think you just did it :) Mar 12 22:52:01 rhkfin: i mean on community mailing list. Mar 12 22:52:17 next om phone will have to be a different market -- gta02 owners wives :) Mar 12 22:52:30 Hahaha EPIC FAIL Mar 12 22:52:48 well at least in that case we can't have gps or wifi problems :) Mar 12 22:53:35 PaulFert`: roger.. Mar 12 22:53:50 rhkfin: what? Mar 12 22:54:08 ;) it seems to be the wives and girlfreinds who complain the most about mis-features like the gsm buzz. A phone for them would be nice, actually. Mar 12 22:54:21 received? Mar 12 22:54:47 PaulFert`: not to mention on the community(-list) or something.. Mar 12 22:55:58 rhkfin: not that i'm trying to force you but it seems useless to draw attention to it atm. Mar 12 22:57:16 mwester: a phone that will emit some other horrible sounds in a revenge? Mar 12 22:57:24 understand. Just can't believe it happening.. On the other hand it means that people will be interested in GTA02 for a longer time -> better software, I hope.. Unless Nokia does the job.. Mar 12 22:57:26 dueling mokos Mar 12 22:57:30 hehe! Mar 12 22:58:20 rhkfin: that's a good thought, except for the very serious design flaws in the gta02 that are not fixed even in the most recent (not yet shipping, I think) version of the hardware. Mar 12 22:58:56 rhkfin: git at least talks about /sys/bus/platform/devices/om-gta03.0/gps_power Mar 12 22:59:00 mwester, I think they'll keep selling gta02, buzz should be fixed soon, what others? Mar 12 22:59:06 rhkfin: so surely there is at least some GPS code? Mar 12 22:59:30 eolson: bass fix Mar 12 22:59:45 lindi-: hmm.. we'll see Mar 12 22:59:48 lindi-: that's power switching Mar 12 22:59:53 rhkfin, right, that one Mar 12 22:59:56 eolson: the calypso itself, the broken wifi chipset, the echo problem, the bass fix (which is improved, but not fixed), -- and I'm not sure if the buzz is fixed or not. Mar 12 22:59:57 rhkfin: and there's "fix-gta03-wlan-pm-and-mmc-rescan.patch" Mar 12 23:00:00 rhkfin: for wlan stuff Mar 12 23:00:34 mwester: echo surely is solved? Mar 12 23:00:50 mwester: the buzz should be fixed by ferrite beads on all possible pathes, afaik. Mar 12 23:00:54 lindi-: I don't know anything about this, I was just told that there would't be wlan/gps but if you can prove something else, I'm happy :) Mar 12 23:01:08 rhkfin: i can only provide rumors ;) Mar 12 23:01:23 lindi-: I haven't heard that the hardware echo is fixed. Mar 12 23:01:36 I'm glad to hear that they did fix the buzz. Mar 12 23:01:37 lindi-: :) Mar 12 23:01:41 rhkfin: i'm sure about wlan btw. Though the OM plans may change every minute, it seems to bee too far to add major stuff. Mar 12 23:01:42 mwester: AT%N0187 fixes it Mar 12 23:01:54 lindi-: not well enough, but I won't argue it. Mar 12 23:01:59 the echo "fix" just turns on software echo suppression. I saw one recent report that it was causing normal audio to cut out (threshold too high) Mar 12 23:02:00 mwester: oh? Mar 12 23:02:04 mwester: A8 should work, but i don't know if anybody has verified that it helps actually. Mar 12 23:02:15 I haven't had a chance to test it myself yet Mar 12 23:02:25 The calypso is enough to kill the device as a useful phone anyway, it would be better if it had #1024 fixed. Mar 12 23:02:50 IMO the best echo-free way to use freerunner is to use headset and internal mic (and switch off %Nxxxx) Mar 12 23:03:34 * mwester keeps wondering what horrible secret everyone is concealing about bluetooth -- there must be one, because it is the obvious solution to the bass problem, the buzz, as well as the echo. Mar 12 23:04:06 mwester: shh! bluetooth is a dirty word! Mar 12 23:04:22 mwester: Just nobody implemented it properly in FSO. Otherwise it works (with a workaround for one weird bug in alsa driver). Mar 12 23:04:36 I love looking like a foolish geek with my blinking bluetooth headset on my ear at the grocery store. Mar 12 23:07:30 What will be really good in GTA03 is the GSM modem. Mar 12 23:08:13 what about it? Mar 12 23:08:18 hehe! What a concept, huh? That a good phone must start with a good GSM modem... (Yes, I've heard good things from Mickey about the new GSM) Mar 12 23:08:20 2.75G Mar 12 23:08:28 I see Mar 12 23:08:38 PaulFert`: what's this "andy removed wlan stack" about? Mar 12 23:08:39 PaulFert, also hopefully GTA03 form factor will be more masses friendly Mar 12 23:08:42 mc75i Mar 12 23:08:46 mwester: i had that retro handset from think geek, beat that Mar 12 23:08:52 PaulFert`: commit id? ;) Mar 12 23:08:53 And btw (a matter of taste) it will require rootfs to be on uSD. Mar 12 23:09:17 * mwester thinks that tastes just right. Mar 12 23:09:22 PaulFert`: or ram :) Mar 12 23:09:37 heh well, i'm sure no one really cares, but it seems the asynchronous scanning is broken but a regular scan still works Mar 12 23:10:57 for bluetooth on FR that is Mar 12 23:11:03 lindi-: 21813b7cbfbc7d2c5f9b1afad48639acddbd888d Mar 12 23:11:46 hmm, hopefully multiple SD slots then for GTA03 Mar 12 23:12:34 Anyone still experiencing problems with accelerometers? Mar 12 23:12:34 maybe even a full SD slot (doubtful) to put a wifi card in p) Mar 12 23:12:48 PaulFert`: but that's just config file? Mar 12 23:14:03 eolson: no Mar 12 23:14:17 eolson: nope, regrettably not Mar 12 23:14:27 oh well :) Mar 12 23:14:28 I heard the GTA03 will have a bacon Mar 12 23:14:31 lindi-: we'll see ;) Mar 12 23:15:00 SeligArkin: My gta02 is a toaster every now and then :) Mar 12 23:15:01 and a 10 year battery, on a 3 second charge! Mar 12 23:15:22 no charge at all - accelerometers charge it! Mar 12 23:15:29 YEAH! Mar 12 23:15:44 SeligArkin: ham&eggs Mar 12 23:15:45 And it can transform into a robot Mar 12 23:16:18 <|Marco|> has anyone given the 2007.2 screen locker a recode for shr ? Mar 12 23:16:19 hopefully a tap + "beam me up" will work too Mar 12 23:16:30 why transform? that's incorrect Mar 12 23:16:50 BECAUSE IT IS A ROBOT IN DISCUISE!!!1 Mar 12 23:17:27 no disguise Mar 12 23:17:54 Q:How can I tell which version of GTA02 I have in my hands ? Mar 12 23:18:21 open and look at the writing next mic Mar 12 23:18:55 sigius: or cat /proc/cpuinfo Mar 12 23:19:00 though even this isn't comprehensive Mar 12 23:19:57 Advertisement: win the first programming competition for OM & win 124e: http://cofundos.org/project.php?id=150 Mar 12 23:20:08 sigius: why do you want to know anyway? Mar 12 23:21:00 124 escudos? Mar 12 23:21:17 DocScrutinizer: Eurodos :) Mar 12 23:21:34 DocScrutinizer, I have the audio buzz (gsm interference on the mic) problem, and am wondering if theres already a version with the issue solved Mar 12 23:21:51 DocScrutinizer, first I wanted to establish what version I have Mar 12 23:21:58 to beign with Mar 12 23:22:03 begin with Mar 12 23:22:52 sigius: there's a version but it's not on sale yet, i guess. Mar 12 23:23:12 sigius: won't help. all devices out there aren't fixed yet. And eventually there'll be devices with same evrsion fixed and unfixed ones Mar 12 23:23:35 BTW, DocScrutinizer, is it confirmed that A7 (or at least A8) will have buzz fully fixed (including headset mic)? Mar 12 23:23:36 DocScrutinizer, the hardware fix to said problem mentions a version A7 but I guess it isnt out yet then Mar 12 23:23:51 nope Mar 12 23:24:23 * anttna laughs at http://www.law9.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/gentoo-linux.jpg Mar 12 23:24:45 DocScrutinizer, is nope to mine or PaulFert`s question ? Mar 12 23:25:06 yours Mar 12 23:25:35 PaulFert`: A8 should as I get it Mar 12 23:26:26 DocScrutinizer: i remember that it should have necessary components in place but was it confirmed by some testing that it fully helps? Mar 12 23:26:28 DocScrutinizer: did I understand you correctly that there will be no obvious way from the revision to tell the fixed from unfixed versions? Mar 12 23:26:52 (confirmed) nope, afaik Mar 12 23:26:54 DocScrutinizer, PaulFert` , what the timeline on these (a7 ,a8) ? do you know ? Mar 12 23:27:13 mwester: not for A6 Mar 12 23:27:34 Ok, well, that's good to know. I won't make any assumptions then. Mar 12 23:27:42 sigius: nobody knows Mar 12 23:27:55 Especially i Mar 12 23:28:28 DocScrutinizer, ok, too bad, thanks for clarifying Mar 12 23:29:19 sigius: the buzz fix for internal mic is not that hard btw Mar 12 23:29:21 sigius: why too bad? would you prefer a timeline far into the future? Mar 12 23:30:07 DocScrutinizer, no, but what I take from that is that it will be a while Mar 12 23:30:29 nah, I didn't say this Mar 12 23:30:43 PaulFert`, to me it is, I have no skill in that area Mar 12 23:31:19 PaulFert`: hm, really? I had someone who does a fair amount of soldering and he said it was definitely not trivial Mar 12 23:31:25 sigius: try to find any place where they do electronic repair then Mar 12 23:31:47 johnsu01: not trivial, but doable. Mar 12 23:31:49 PaulFert`: And this is our sysadmin who is responsible for switching all our servers over to coreboot / free bios Mar 12 23:31:56 DocScrutinizer, ok, i was presuming that there would some timely announcement Mar 12 23:32:28 johnsu01: it's not hard for any guy who does SMT rework, i guess. Mar 12 23:32:29 PaulFert`, I might, but still then there is risc and cost involved Mar 12 23:33:29 PaulFert`: that being said, the buzz has not been such a problem for me lately Mar 12 23:33:31 * johnsu01 knocks on wood Mar 12 23:33:33 sigius: risc? I doubt it. And cost should be minimal, that'll take less than 30 minutes if you bring the necessary parts and printed instructions and disassembled freerunner. I guess. Mar 12 23:34:00 johnsu01: depends on transmit power and the band used. Mar 12 23:34:07 sigius: don't expect any big announcement for start shipping a new minor board revision Mar 12 23:36:26 DocScrutinizer: am i really being overly optimistic about the buzz fix SOP? Mar 12 23:36:56 err which respect? Mar 12 23:37:27 DocScrutinizer: that it's fairly easy and fast Mar 12 23:37:29 if someone would start offering that as a service to do that fix I think they would make some money right now... Mar 12 23:37:39 (like from me) Mar 12 23:37:58 * mwester thinks PaulFert` underestimates the difficulty of finding a shop that does SMT rework and is willing to take on such a small project for a reasonable fee. Mar 12 23:38:19 PaulFert`: largely depends Mar 12 23:38:34 |Marco|: has anyone given the 2007.2 screen locker a recode for shr ? - good call Mar 12 23:40:21 mwester: yes, looks like that because i see all the guys fixing cell phones near almost every underground station here. And to me finding a guy capable to do that job wouldn't be very hard even if i didn't work where i do. And i think i could do it myself even without equipment... Mar 12 23:41:39 DocScrutinizer, no big announcement about board revisions makes sense, but maybe if someone makes the announcement about this revision, sales would increase. I'm just guessing since buzz is the main issue that might make me wait if I had the money. (Also, I suppose such an announcement should wait until all previous ones are sold by retailers) Mar 12 23:43:23 Ok, really gotta sleep. CU Mar 12 23:43:33 cya Mar 12 23:43:51 me too, later Mar 12 23:44:07 buh bye Mar 13 00:40:40 How charged does the freerunner come? Mar 13 00:41:04 am I going to have to charge it beore use, and if so, howlong charge will it be? Mar 13 00:41:18 * SeligArkin likes playing with her things asap. >.> Mar 13 00:51:08 .. Mar 13 00:51:14 it's like ..75% Mar 13 00:52:14 well, once again probably no one cares, but the PyBluez stuff actually does work fine in 2008.09. score :) Mar 13 01:03:37 rhkfin: deadline for registraion is? Mar 13 01:03:56 (om competition, was reading buffer) Mar 13 01:04:30 competition? Mar 13 01:05:24 where in the world is PaulF? Mar 13 01:06:37 sleeping it seems Mar 13 01:16:12 I mean - geographically Mar 13 01:17:15 shellevil, he is from Moscow Mar 13 01:17:17 PaulF is not of this world, I think. He is an interdimensional being, who pops in and out as the fabric of reality ripples in the space-time continuum.... Mar 13 01:27:09 tick tock Mar 13 01:34:04 well this is bad Mar 13 01:34:18 I bricked my old 8525 Mar 13 01:35:52 so... I has no backup now.>.>; Mar 13 02:08:38 hah Mar 13 02:42:10 just giong to have to use the neo now:) Mar 13 02:44:10 sucks :p Mar 13 02:51:31 tried android beta3? Mar 13 02:51:46 i got no bootage Mar 13 02:55:18 hah **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 13 02:59:57 2009