**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 25 02:59:57 2009 Mar 25 03:00:44 rooly: wholesale or retail? Mar 25 03:00:58 rooly: and what would that price be fore? Mar 25 03:01:21 retail Mar 25 03:01:41 rooly: for the purpose of getting customers and/or funds to make it? Mar 25 03:01:52 $700 is a guess Mar 25 03:02:03 based on components, other costs, etc. Mar 25 03:02:06 's roughly the retail of an iphone Mar 25 03:02:15 yup Mar 25 03:02:34 though it'd have more advanced hardware than iphone Mar 25 03:02:43 it's be likely not as slick/slim Mar 25 03:02:44 minus the shitty closed system and stevejobsian control scheme Mar 25 03:02:48 and software would be more rough Mar 25 03:02:58 though software will improve over time Mar 25 03:03:11 also $700 will be able to go down - if voluems go up Mar 25 03:03:14 not to mention i could make my own changes to a fair degree, right? Mar 25 03:03:18 eg if u can somehow sell 200,000 of tyhem Mar 25 03:03:24 that of course will allow price to drop a lot Mar 25 03:03:31 yup Mar 25 03:03:40 whole os is replacable Mar 25 03:03:43 from kernel up Mar 25 03:03:53 do it completely new Mar 25 03:03:58 or build on whats there at any layer Mar 25 03:04:25 os runs off sd card (micro-sd) Mar 25 03:04:28 that's what it's all about in the end Mar 25 03:04:34 so even reflash is totally trivial with zero special hw Mar 25 03:04:59 if u have an sdcard reader... u can reflash. no software or special cables needed Mar 25 03:05:07 and u can generate os images that are trivial to flahs Mar 25 03:05:17 or even easier - re-sell micro-sd's pre-imaged Mar 25 03:05:20 raster, what about multiple sd cards and striping across them with one OS sd Mar 25 03:05:21 just plug in and use Mar 25 03:05:34 well my idea at least invovles 2 micro-sd's Mar 25 03:05:43 one internal for os u cant remove without opening it up Mar 25 03:05:49 and an external for "media" Mar 25 03:05:55 u could stripe across the 2 Mar 25 03:06:08 though the sd card speed on an omap3 is realyl impressive Mar 25 03:06:15 i pull 26mb/sec off my sd here Mar 25 03:06:19 nice Mar 25 03:06:39 got any shapes in mind? Mar 25 03:07:06 no like neo ;) Mar 25 03:07:27 * rooly likes the neo's design Mar 25 03:07:29 very rugged Mar 25 03:07:33 and spartan Mar 25 03:07:43 rooly: thats entirely dependant on components Mar 25 03:07:51 mostly screen but also battery Mar 25 03:08:05 but in the end it needs to work Mar 25 03:08:07 of, of course Mar 25 03:08:17 i dont think we'd have the ability to do ipone-level sleek Mar 25 03:08:20 not yet Mar 25 03:08:28 if'n you did that i'd never buy it Mar 25 03:08:34 i should draw some mockup design i had in mind Mar 25 03:08:44 having option of thicker bat would be great Mar 25 03:08:49 but i'd prefer a middleground of sleek but functional Mar 25 03:08:53 ie battery is replacable Mar 25 03:08:59 u can easily open it Mar 25 03:09:05 with actual "Slots" on the side for plugs Mar 25 03:09:07 and micro-sd Mar 25 03:09:09 and buttons etc. Mar 25 03:09:34 right now.. i'd "like" a qwerty kbd on it Mar 25 03:09:45 but totally not sure on if its mechanically doable Mar 25 03:09:54 duh, that's new :) Mar 25 03:11:10 well doable given we have no mech design people... Mar 25 03:11:58 hmm Mar 25 03:13:25 nb Mar 25 03:13:33 i can pull 14.5m/sec off this microsd here too Mar 25 03:13:47 soa s such i think it would be really fast even with 1 Mar 25 03:14:07 but for hyper-io speed 2 might work as an lvm setup + raid-0 Mar 25 03:14:17 but then NEVER unplug the external card.. or u'll be in pain Mar 25 03:14:18 :) Mar 25 03:14:48 lol Mar 25 03:14:58 * rooly can handle that Mar 25 03:15:02 raid1 ;D Mar 25 03:15:13 but the hw should be pretty powerful Mar 25 03:15:21 raster: how bout making them both accessible, but one below the battery and one on the external case Mar 25 03:15:27 DocScrutinizer: err yeah. thats what i was thinking. striped. Mar 25 03:15:35 rooly: thats the idea Mar 25 03:15:38 ok Mar 25 03:15:42 rooly: both always accessible Mar 25 03:15:44 pluggable Mar 25 03:15:48 but 1 is "hard to get to" Mar 25 03:15:53 (under the battery inside the case) Mar 25 03:15:55 ic Mar 25 03:16:01 the other is intended for dynamic hotplug Mar 25 03:16:08 but - you are free to use them differently if u want Mar 25 03:16:18 so no such thing as bricking this device then Mar 25 03:16:43 nup Mar 25 03:16:48 the omap3 has bootloader in rom Mar 25 03:16:57 the bootloader in rom can boot off nand OR off sd Mar 25 03:17:03 it the sd is formatted just right Mar 25 03:17:04 ooo, ooo, ooo, i know, make it compatible with the new sdxc format Mar 25 03:17:08 raster: multisim a low cost nice-to-have (mutually exclusive that is) Mar 25 03:17:33 (right number of heads/cyclinders/sectors, with a fat partition wityh a special MLO file as the first fat entry in the file list for the fat fs) Mar 25 03:18:03 so its unbrickable Mar 25 03:18:29 * rooly wonders how multi-sim is supposed to work Mar 25 03:18:30 (its just increasing degrees of carefulness to unbrick it - no special hw needed beyond a micro-sd card and something that can write to it on your pc/laptop) Mar 25 03:18:35 you just have 2 phone numbers? Mar 25 03:18:39 DocScrutinizer: multi-sim - i know little about Mar 25 03:19:05 i dont know how that interacts with the baseband chipset Mar 25 03:19:08 if it needs the support Mar 25 03:19:11 or u fee dit in Mar 25 03:19:18 so as such i'd go for 1 sim - until i know more Mar 25 03:19:29 mutually exclusive multisim is stupid as bread: just a convenient way to "swap" sim Mar 25 03:20:55 well that sstupid Mar 25 03:21:00 quite Mar 25 03:21:03 if you could fix the modem fw to switch workspace (stack, pc, registers etc), it could run two independant instances same time, switching sims by a gpio Mar 25 03:21:06 it just makes the phone bigger and electrically more complex Mar 25 03:21:20 *&IF* u can get them both running at once Mar 25 03:21:24 i'd be for it tho Mar 25 03:22:10 that's all about if we get hand on gsm-fw Mar 25 03:22:19 chances are u never will Mar 25 03:22:22 i wouldnt bet on it Mar 25 03:22:24 so until u can Mar 25 03:22:27 dont design for it Mar 25 03:22:28 :) Mar 25 03:23:01 nah, the electrical "overhead" is minimal Mar 25 03:23:25 its having to find yet more room for a 2nd sim card in what will alreayd be a very crammed internals Mar 25 03:23:46 and maybe if we support the device, gsm-mnf might consider to implement Mar 25 03:24:01 maybe Mar 25 03:24:08 can put it on the list of possibilities Mar 25 03:24:18 but then i dont have an ide ahow the sim is hooked to the gsm fw Mar 25 03:24:26 so if u can even electrically do it properly Mar 25 03:24:55 rooly: is a keypad a must? Mar 25 03:25:09 fer me? no Mar 25 03:25:14 for most? Mar 25 03:25:14 electrically np Mar 25 03:25:16 just a decent software keyboard Mar 25 03:25:21 raster, obviously not Mar 25 03:25:27 thats a matter of software then Mar 25 03:25:36 and a flat surface for the screen Mar 25 03:25:39 so many people use htc's, iphones, and the new blackberry's Mar 25 03:25:44 (not bezeled in) Mar 25 03:26:00 and "just big enough" Mar 25 03:26:34 (and otherwise software. imho u want capactitive multitouch for it too as basicalyl humans will press one key before they relase the other whihc just confuses resistive screens) Mar 25 03:26:49 if it's "big enough" a small bezel won't matter Mar 25 03:27:00 DocScrutinizer: yes - but then u are probably n800 size Mar 25 03:27:06 the bezel is actually one of the main factors in the FR's ruggedness Mar 25 03:27:15 also bezel-less is simply sexier Mar 25 03:27:30 rooly: i'm not too sure there Mar 25 03:27:33 i am Mar 25 03:27:39 you can do multitouch on R-ts! Mar 25 03:27:43 know how many times i shoulda smashed the screen already? Mar 25 03:27:56 thanks to the bezel not letting the screen hit Mar 25 03:28:04 my FR is still going strong Mar 25 03:28:12 i have some good examples of lack of bezel and the lcd is almsot impenetrable as the lcd is below another layer of perspex Mar 25 03:28:16 on top of which is the ts Mar 25 03:28:25 it has extra protection beyond what it has on the fr Mar 25 03:28:39 rooly: hmm i think u have bad examples Mar 25 03:29:03 i have 2 here that are the opposite of what u assume Mar 25 03:29:14 motorola rokr e6 Mar 25 03:29:16 raster: that's C-ts only Mar 25 03:29:20 and this other one Mar 25 03:29:30 DocScrutinizer: u can do resistive that way too Mar 25 03:29:41 R-ts has not that rigid surface Mar 25 03:29:56 these 2 do Mar 25 03:29:59 well its not toalyl rigid Mar 25 03:30:05 it has some give Mar 25 03:30:09 but not that u can "see" Mar 25 03:30:36 yeah omnia e.g. has no bezel Mar 25 03:30:43 yup Mar 25 03:30:46 and thats resistive Mar 25 03:30:58 they put r-ts on top of a perspex panel Mar 25 03:31:01 but there you see for *sure* Mar 25 03:31:03 and under that panel is the actual lcd Mar 25 03:31:09 it's a bad ts Mar 25 03:31:16 the lcd actually gets a lot more protection Mar 25 03:33:55 btw I'd love a phone size of N800 Mar 25 03:34:06 i think u'd want a little smaller Mar 25 03:34:16 if it could be the size of JUST the visible lcd Mar 25 03:34:19 u'd be doing well Mar 25 03:34:43 ok Mar 25 03:34:46 ack Mar 25 03:34:54 actually Mar 25 03:34:58 that is the size of this phone here Mar 25 03:35:01 its abut omina-size Mar 25 03:35:21 its the width of the n800 screen height Mar 25 03:35:25 yup Mar 25 03:35:35 and lenth its n800 screen width PLUS one half of the padding to the side Mar 25 03:35:39 so i'm not far off Mar 25 03:35:40 just tested ;) Mar 25 03:35:49 the problem is the 4.3" lcd's come with too much bezel around the unit Mar 25 03:36:11 it'd be nice if u can have the lcd with almsot NO extra metal/glass outside the visible area Mar 25 03:36:12 hmm Mar 25 03:36:15 maybe 1-2mm Mar 25 03:36:19 but that isnt going to happen Mar 25 03:36:32 Ok, so (a) why is the screen lock not working in SHR unstable and (b) why are some of the icons not showing? Mar 25 03:36:43 * Chocky notes that raster likes to talk. Mar 25 03:36:49 (not happen) why? Mar 25 03:37:03 DocScrutinizer: find that lcm.. and i'll be happy Mar 25 03:37:06 chances are.. u wotn find it Mar 25 03:37:27 in fact Mar 25 03:37:36 do u know of any good online list of lcm's Mar 25 03:37:38 raster: yup rare. but feasible Mar 25 03:37:48 hard to find tho Mar 25 03:38:00 crap Mar 25 03:38:06 the domain i was using is now dead Mar 25 03:38:26 anywho Mar 25 03:38:31 supplier - whatever Mar 25 03:38:33 site is down Mar 25 03:38:36 rools. Mar 25 03:38:36 * rooly is gonna go off and do something else Mar 25 03:38:43 dns doesnt resolve anymore Mar 25 03:38:43 yo Chocky Mar 25 03:38:44 pooo Mar 25 03:39:15 domain hijacking? o.O Mar 25 03:39:48 its just dead Mar 25 03:39:57 supplier may have shut down Mar 25 03:39:58 dunno Mar 25 03:40:24 uptime expired ;) Mar 25 03:43:27 Chocky: what'd you want? Mar 25 03:43:45 still have blank icons for pythm and openmoko-contacts Mar 25 03:44:26 oh, erm, okay Mar 25 03:45:20 And no screen lock with Aux button Mar 25 03:47:01 chocky, the openmoko-contacts.png seems to be broken, if you copy another icon, it'll come up fine Mar 25 03:47:22 hm Mar 25 03:47:34 seems ok on my real Linux desktop Mar 25 03:47:37 * rooly nn's everyone Mar 25 03:48:07 yeah, but the png loader on shr doesn't seem to like it Mar 25 03:48:13 poo poo Mar 25 03:51:44 does it appear if u killall -HYP enlightenment Mar 25 03:51:45 err Mar 25 03:51:48 does it appear if u killall -HUP enlightenment Mar 25 03:51:49 restart e Mar 25 03:52:09 basically there is a fundamental problem with how things are installed by opkg in ipks Mar 25 03:52:13 and the fdo .desktop standard Mar 25 03:52:21 heh, no kidding Mar 25 03:52:31 I ran the icons through 'convert'. didn't help Mar 25 03:53:15 X restart doesn't help; tried that several times already Mar 25 03:54:45 ok Mar 25 03:54:50 then its simply not finding/liking the icon Mar 25 03:58:10 I don't think it's that simple Mar 25 03:58:32 If I rename the icon in the .desktop file, it works. but if I copy another icon to the name, it doesn't. Mar 25 03:59:12 its not finding the icon Mar 25 03:59:15 where is the icon? Mar 25 03:59:25 and what is the icon filename Mar 25 03:59:30 sigh Mar 25 03:59:32 and how does the .desktop refer to it Mar 25 03:59:36 please don't patronize me. Mar 25 03:59:47 i am asking for the file paths Mar 25 03:59:51 if u want help Mar 25 04:00:04 it may not even be TRYING ot load it as it never found it Mar 25 04:00:08 No kidding. Mar 25 04:00:15 thus - i'm asking Mar 25 04:00:23 But a barrage of commentary is not helpful either. Mar 25 04:00:39 Give me some freakin' credit. Mar 25 04:01:05 ? Mar 25 04:01:09 ! Mar 25 04:01:37 ok. then deal with it yourself. Mar 25 04:01:51 uh huh. Mar 25 04:02:08 i was trying to help by trying to get some finromation Mar 25 04:02:20 which you'd prefer to go "duh" on as you seem to know it all Mar 25 04:02:23 I'm sure you think that's the case. Mar 25 04:02:27 so go ahead Mar 25 04:02:33 But not like this. Not with your verbal diaharrea Mar 25 04:02:47 ... Mar 25 04:02:51 i havent said give or take anything more than you have Mar 25 04:03:09 *whoosh* Mar 25 04:03:18 you have basically given vague grunts of "err it doesnt work" Mar 25 04:03:23 I haven't. Mar 25 04:03:26 with no tangible useful detail i can use Mar 25 04:03:34 No, that's wrong. Mar 25 04:03:44 If I rename the icon in the .desktop file, it works. but if I copy another icon to the name, it doesn't. Mar 25 04:03:47 for starters Mar 25 04:03:49 change from what to what? Mar 25 04:03:57 I haven't had a chance. You've talked and talked. only listening to yourself Mar 25 04:03:58 no useful detail Mar 25 04:04:02 Then ASK! Mar 25 04:04:05 idiot Mar 25 04:04:07 geez. Mar 25 04:04:14 i DID Mar 25 04:04:14 talk about someone who can't shut up Mar 25 04:04:20 its not finding the icon Mar 25 04:04:20 where is the icon? Mar 25 04:04:20 and what is the icon filename Mar 25 04:04:31 look at the scrollback before I came in. it's 200 lines of you talk, talk talk Mar 25 04:04:33 i made a quick guess of an assessment Mar 25 04:04:49 look, you're not helping. Can you shut up already? Mar 25 04:05:13 (after you were using convert thinkign the file itself was corrupt/broken/not lodable) Mar 25 04:05:19 and 2 simple q's Mar 25 04:05:22 for 2 bits of info Mar 25 04:05:29 You have a fanstastic skill of stating the obvious. Mar 25 04:05:33 where you begin to sigh and say i'm patronizing you Mar 25 04:05:48 now you're rehashing what you said. you must be fun at a party. Mar 25 04:05:56 thats because you wont answrer Mar 25 04:06:00 and go straight into bashing me Mar 25 04:06:09 No, you're being dishonest Mar 25 04:06:17 no i'm not Mar 25 04:06:19 scroll back Mar 25 04:06:19 yep. Mar 25 04:06:21 and read Mar 25 04:06:24 look Mar 25 04:06:27 I'm raster Mar 25 04:06:28 i can do it just as well as u can Mar 25 04:06:28 talk Mar 25 04:06:29 talk Mar 25 04:06:31 me Mar 25 04:06:33 not listen Mar 25 04:06:35 random thing Mar 25 04:06:35 talk Mar 25 04:06:39 repeat what I said Mar 25 04:06:40 talk Mar 25 04:06:43 DUDE its irc Mar 25 04:06:44 look at me. lal lal lal Mar 25 04:06:50 listenign is not mutually exclusive to typing Mar 25 04:06:51 DUDE, you can't shut up! Mar 25 04:07:01 neither can you Mar 25 04:07:07 answer the q Mar 25 04:07:10 No Mar 25 04:07:12 or get off your soapbox Mar 25 04:07:14 I don't want your help. Mar 25 04:09:24 nb Mar 25 04:09:33 it may simply be a lack of knowledge of irc Mar 25 04:09:38 but u never pasted/gave the file paths Mar 25 04:09:45 See, you can't shut up. Mar 25 04:09:47 as u probably pasted them in and as they start with a / Mar 25 04:09:57 they were never printed - irc cmd's Mar 25 04:10:12 You know, I thought you were a nice guy from the comments that people made. Now I see you've got a serious ego problem. Mar 25 04:10:15 and i was readign back just to check i didnt miss anything Mar 25 04:10:25 Dude, stop making stupid assumptions. Mar 25 04:10:49 And I already said I didn't want your help. Mar 25 04:11:12 change from what to what? Mar 25 04:11:12 I haven't had a chance. You've talked and talked. only listening to yourself Mar 25 04:11:12 no useful detail Mar 25 04:11:12 Then ASK! Mar 25 04:11:12 idiot Mar 25 04:11:15 i did ask Mar 25 04:11:20 and u never replied except to abuse me Mar 25 04:11:24 Forget it. Mar 25 04:11:29 you have a serious problem Mar 25 04:11:35 i have been trying to figure out where i patronised you Mar 25 04:11:36 I already said 3 times I don't want your help. Mar 25 04:11:39 or ignored your answers Mar 25 04:11:43 shut up already. Mar 25 04:11:48 for goodness sake. Mar 25 04:12:16 but in the end i suspect you have a mental issue with knowing what you are even doign or saying or following your own speech, letalone that of others. Mar 25 04:12:21 i will not shut up Mar 25 04:12:25 awww, baby Mar 25 04:12:33 not because you simply say so Mar 25 04:12:35 are you so insecure about these icons that you have to berate it out of me? Mar 25 04:12:42 this is a free form - i am free to talk as i pelase, as are you Mar 25 04:12:54 indeed, it seems you cannot shut up. Like I said, 200 lines of ramble. Mar 25 04:12:59 and no i'm not insecure Mar 25 04:13:09 i am tryign to get information that may help possibly fix a bug Mar 25 04:13:23 but it seems u are in no way wanting to even give the info to help that Mar 25 04:13:34 Not like this, no. Mar 25 04:14:08 feel free to live with the bgu then Mar 25 04:14:09 I already have to deal with people who are full of themselves and full of assumptions in my day job. I won't do it here. Mar 25 04:14:10 bug Mar 25 04:14:26 dude - where does it imply i'm full of myself Mar 25 04:14:33 please quote me on that? Mar 25 04:15:05 Very well. I'll quote you on "I'm full of myself". Mar 25 04:15:08 as you ask. Mar 25 04:15:16 where? Mar 25 04:15:20 There, you just said it. Mar 25 04:15:38 you really do have a mental problem. Mar 25 04:18:49 Chocky: dude. Mar 25 04:18:58 pjz: dude yourself Mar 25 04:22:53 Chocky: so, to recap. SHR unstable, some icons (pythm and openmoko-contacts) are missing. Aand that seems to be all the info I can find. Mar 25 04:23:44 well, indeed. there was more info that that, but it was buried in the screed of text. Mar 25 04:24:33 Chocky: oh, right, changing the name in the .desktop file works, but moving another icon to the same name doesn't. Mar 25 04:24:43 yessir. Mar 25 04:24:57 Chocky: which could be explained if something is doing some caching in the middle such that the new contents of that file aren't really being picked up. Mar 25 04:26:18 Chocky: changing the contents of that file to a known-working icon and then rebooting would test that. Mar 25 04:26:52 Chocky: but you probably figured that out since, you know, I have to give you some credit. Mar 25 04:27:00 reboot is a bit extreme - killall -HUP enlightenment will do the job Mar 25 04:27:31 pjz: you can save the patronizing comments for the noobs, ta. Mar 25 04:28:11 Chocky: ah, but coming in here and asking for help and then dissing raster is a definite noob move. Mar 25 04:28:45 Perhaps, but given the context, and his screeds of text, justified. Mar 25 04:29:04 In any case, it was a continuation of a conversation from this morning with others. Mar 25 04:30:35 regardless. dissing him when he's trying to help is just rude. Mar 25 04:30:41 bingo Mar 25 04:30:46 I strongly content he wasn't help. Mar 25 04:30:48 contend. Mar 25 04:31:05 helping. No matter what you and he _thought_ he was doing. Mar 25 04:31:15 Chocky: he was trying, which is more than you'll get if your rude like that to the rest of the smart contributors here and run them all off. Mar 25 04:31:29 s/your/you're/ Mar 25 04:31:29 pjz meant: Chocky: he was trying, which is more than you'll get if you're rude like that to the rest of the smart contributors here and run them all off. Mar 25 04:31:43 pjz: you seem to be missing a few tricks. First of all, I've contributed a great deal. Mar 25 04:32:03 Second, raster's approach is not at all helpful. I've been on IRC longer than just about anyone here. Helped many many people. Mar 25 04:32:11 Chocky: yeah, well, I know raster's name off the top of my head and I don't know yours, and I've been lurking since before GTA01 Mar 25 04:32:15 so don't lecture me. Mar 25 04:32:25 bully for you. Mar 25 04:32:40 I don't recognize Chocky's nick either. Mar 25 04:33:01 Look back over the last few days. I think you'll find a few do. Mar 25 04:33:17 And just because I haven't been lurking here the last months, doesn't mean I haven't helped. Mar 25 04:33:55 But I guess we're too interested in personal examination rather than the results of what I'm seeing Mar 25 04:35:04 As you suggested, I copied a working one, and restarted the X server. Instead of the previous white blank icon file, I now get nothing at all for the icon. Mar 25 04:35:39 Chocky: so, your asserted reputation, which none of us seem to know anything about, is not doing a good enough job at excusing you of being dismissively rude to someone who was clearly making an honest attempt at helping. Mar 25 04:36:00 It looks to me like you went non-linear at about the time he started asking for things that you might expect from a sensible bug report. Mar 25 04:36:00 cjb: assert all you want. Mar 25 04:36:04 Chocky: i've been on irc for > 10years... and in my experience what you have done was just plain rude and with no reason for being so. Mar 25 04:36:17 I've been on IRC for 20 if we're comparing. Mar 25 04:36:32 Looks like no one is interested in this bug. At least in a helpful way. Mar 25 04:36:37 dude Mar 25 04:36:40 i asked for info Mar 25 04:36:43 as cjb said Mar 25 04:36:46 Sorry, that was wrong. 15 years. Mar 25 04:36:56 you just went off on a tangent in insulting me at that point Mar 25 04:37:10 uh uh. Mar 25 04:37:14 at this point i certainly have no desire to help you. Mar 25 04:37:23 finally. Mar 25 04:37:30 I only asked you 5 times not to help me. Mar 25 04:37:42 Sorry you couldn't take a hint. Mar 25 04:37:45 Chocky: it did look an awful lot like a case of "I'm too important to file bug reports that are actionable by other humans". Mar 25 04:38:02 cjb: it's nevertheless not the case. Mar 25 04:39:06 clearly we all need to join http://peternaullsappreciationsociety.blogspot.com/ Mar 25 04:39:19 Don't worry. I've already been dissesed over pointing out many broken things, because I'm trying to have a complete understading of OM development. too many heads in the sand. Mar 25 04:39:21 :o Mar 25 04:39:23 Chocky: assert all you want Mar 25 04:39:55 well, we're well and truly away from the icon issue now. Anyone still care? Mar 25 04:39:55 Chocky: dude. u pointed out a break. i tred to get more info on the exact situation and pertinent details that will hle[p fix it. Mar 25 04:40:05 you refused to provide them and instead chose to be rude. Mar 25 04:40:27 no wonder people will stick their head in the sand when you are involved. Mar 25 04:41:09 heh, nice jumping to conclusions again. Mar 25 04:41:24 Chocky: if you go to a doctor, unable to solve your medical problems by yourself, and they say "Open your mouth and say ah" and you say "This is insulting you're an idiot the problem's clearly in my chest"... Mar 25 04:41:33 Chocky: sure. what are the paths to the icons in question? did you try rebooting or -HUPping enlightenment? Mar 25 04:41:33 .. you can rightly expect a less than helpful response. Mar 25 04:41:42 cjb: do you want to try a car anology for completeness? Mar 25 04:41:50 Chocky: I would be delighted to. Mar 25 04:41:51 pjz: thats just what i asked - with little result :( Mar 25 04:42:16 raster: as I said, you have great difficultly saying nothing when you should be listening. Mar 25 04:42:31 Chocky: i'm STILL waiting for you to provide info Mar 25 04:42:35 Chocky: and you have great difficulty ignoring others faults. Mar 25 04:42:40 all you want to do is claim i'm not listening Mar 25 04:42:44 raster: you just said you didn't want to help me. Mar 25 04:42:46 i have asked.. repeatedly Mar 25 04:42:50 others have now asked Mar 25 04:42:50 raster: please stop responding to me. Mar 25 04:43:01 and you simply stonewall. Mar 25 04:43:02 Chocky: are you unable to ignore him? Mar 25 04:43:04 hell no Mar 25 04:43:14 i'm goign to respond and keep so Mar 25 04:43:18 as long as i please Mar 25 04:43:24 raster: so, let's be clear. Do you want to help me or not? You just said you didn't. Mar 25 04:43:25 you are in a public forum Mar 25 04:43:25 Chocky: most irc clients have a way to do that, I think Mar 25 04:43:32 chhell i dont wanjt to Mar 25 04:43:42 i just want to watch to see if you will even respond to anyone else askign the same thing Mar 25 04:43:48 whihc you seemingly refuse to as well Mar 25 04:43:51 so it's not really just me Mar 25 04:43:51 So you are responding to me, even though you don't want to; presumably, just to be an ass. Mar 25 04:43:52 Chocky: so now you're ignoring me. Mar 25 04:43:54 Chocky: nice. Mar 25 04:44:00 Chocky: and here I am trying to help you. Mar 25 04:44:19 pjz: I'm not; I'm waiting for raster to make up his mind. Mar 25 04:44:27 i'm more curious in the kind of way you are about a car accident and everyone rubbernecks. they all just want to see "how bad was the crash" Mar 25 04:44:48 Chocky: so ignore him then and just answer me. Mar 25 04:44:57 personally, I don't like driving. Mar 25 04:45:16 Chocky: wonderful for you. totally irrelevant to the question at hand,though. Mar 25 04:45:34 pjz: I'd rather not at this point. Thanks for your offer. I'll take the matter up tomorrow with those who are more level headed. Mar 25 04:45:49 * raster is still rubbernecking to see how this highway acceident looks like Mar 25 04:45:55 Chocky: the same peolpe will be here Mar 25 04:45:57 day in and out Mar 25 04:46:02 so have fun :) Mar 25 04:46:03 Chocky: aww, taking your openmoko and going home? seems.. familiar Mar 25 04:46:11 Not at all Mar 25 04:46:20 pjz: let him, please Mar 25 04:46:32 Chocky: wait, wait, no... no, that was a website, not a phone. different. Mar 25 04:47:30 come people like to take websites home Mar 25 04:47:35 who knows why Mar 25 04:47:48 raster: I /IGNOREd chocky some 1..2d ago because he didn't stop giving incoherent useles "bug-comments". (basically doing exactly what he accused you for). I gave him another chance, but that's been a bad idea obviously. so I'll ignore chock* now and problem solved Mar 25 04:47:59 oh, the comedy Mar 25 04:48:05 raster: the internet knows! see http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.acorn.misc/msg/7cfbffc5caa70b12?hl=en Mar 25 04:48:37 Unfortunatley, the general attitude with OM development has been to highly fragment things, and pretend there are no issues. Mar 25 04:48:48 Oh, you want to dial? just ssh in and poke this thing first. Mar 25 04:49:03 Rotate the screen - sure, just ssh in and run xrandr. Mar 25 04:49:30 There's something like 20 different distros. And no one seems to thing that's any kind of problem. Mar 25 04:49:39 Some of them have next to no documentation. Mar 25 04:49:45 s/thing/think/ Mar 25 04:50:22 DocScrutinizer: aaah. i wasnt the only one :) Mar 25 04:50:23 The wiki is a huge shambles, although much less so than it was at FR release. Mar 25 04:50:46 raster: :) Mar 25 04:50:49 raster: got him on ignore now? Mar 25 04:50:54 i thought i was going nuts Mar 25 04:51:06 that i had said something insulting or patronising Mar 25 04:51:15 that somehow my grasp of english had collapsed :) Mar 25 04:51:17 So, assuming I had a real bug to reported, it's pretty unclear where it would be even reported. Each sub-sub project has its own trac, etc. Mar 25 04:51:20 raster: nah, he's just a bit techy and pretentious Mar 25 04:51:27 pjz: i'm still rubbernecking :) Mar 25 04:51:45 raster: ugh. don't trouble yourself. not worth it, I'm sure. Mar 25 04:53:39 Well, at least the highlight is highly amusing people like Dave. If nothing else, I come here to talk to him. Mar 25 04:54:25 aaah silence Mar 25 04:57:07 raster: so whatcha been up to?. haven't seen you post much lately Mar 25 04:57:09 chocky, edit your openmoko-contacts.desktop file, change this: Mar 25 04:57:10 -Categories=Application;Office;PIM; Mar 25 04:57:10 +Categories=Application;PIM;Office; Mar 25 04:57:24 pjz: been busy contracting Mar 25 04:57:28 doing some speeches Mar 25 04:57:35 raster: ah, cool Mar 25 04:57:46 been working on elementary adding lots of stuff. now test selection works together with scrolling Mar 25 04:57:55 u can do it on a touchscreen nicely Mar 25 04:58:01 its not perfect - but servicable Mar 25 04:58:08 Blu3: no joy, already tried some similar stuff. Mar 25 04:58:20 i just did it, it fixed it Mar 25 04:59:02 s/test/text/ ;) Mar 25 04:59:09 it may be a cache issue, but this is what fixed it for me Mar 25 05:01:07 Blu3: hm, yeah. Poke the pythm one similarly, restarted X, still the same Mar 25 05:03:23 DocScrutinizer: yeah.. text Mar 25 05:03:25 oops Mar 25 05:03:27 :) Mar 25 05:03:41 nevermind Mar 25 05:03:53 pjz: also genlist is pretyt solid Mar 25 05:03:57 also handles trees Mar 25 05:04:06 so u can do incredibly huge lists/trees Mar 25 05:04:24 i'm working on evas optimizations now Mar 25 05:06:38 Blu3: hm, so maybe what you first suggested. Something it didn't like about those icons that running through 'convert' didn't help Mar 25 05:06:42 anyway, bed time. Mar 25 05:06:56 back for more abuse (from SHR and IRC) tomorrow Mar 25 05:08:53 chocky, i suspect it's something like that Mar 25 05:34:32 howdy Mar 25 05:34:49 finally pulled the trigger and ordered a freerunner Mar 25 05:35:07 * nihil waits at the door for it to show up Mar 25 05:36:00 any advice for speeding up boot time? Mar 25 05:36:23 ive got avr32 boards booting rather quickly, but I haven't played with embedded ARM yet Mar 25 05:36:35 use an omap3... Mar 25 05:36:39 ma them things are fast Mar 25 05:36:54 omap3? Mar 25 05:37:07 firmware revision? Mar 25 05:37:08 TI omap 34xx 35xx Mar 25 05:37:18 oh u mean make the freerunenr faster Mar 25 05:37:22 make it do less Mar 25 05:37:22 :) Mar 25 05:37:25 yeah, the freerunner Mar 25 05:37:55 make it just do less Mar 25 05:38:04 the biggest 2 problems are 1. IO and 2. slow cpu/ram Mar 25 05:38:25 I wanted to make a phone with avr32 and a psp touchscreen display Mar 25 05:38:29 then I came across the freerunner Mar 25 05:38:58 what kind of battery life does it get? Mar 25 05:40:11 the same boot setup on am omap3 with even more work to do and more expensive IO takes about 22sec on an omap3 (from uboot pause end to full ui up and working) Mar 25 05:40:19 thats loading some expensvie bg's and more Mar 25 05:40:32 sounds about the same time I get on avr32 Mar 25 05:40:33 hmm Mar 25 05:40:39 battery life depends on how long it stays suspended Mar 25 05:40:50 i think some people report 48hrs Mar 25 05:41:08 is it capable of receiving calls when suspended? Mar 25 05:41:24 yes Mar 25 05:42:02 the gsm system is yet another arm cpu Mar 25 05:42:04 on its own chip Mar 25 05:42:10 it stays alive and handles the gsm stack Mar 25 05:42:15 gotcha Mar 25 05:42:27 sounds like the gm862 module I have Mar 25 05:42:28 when a call or sms comes in it interrupts the host cpu (the 2442) and it should wake from suspend Mar 25 05:43:50 I'm not expecting to replace my laptop, but would it suffice for taking to the park and getting some work done? at most I'd need ssh and a browser Mar 25 05:44:23 been eyeballing that laser projection bluetooth keyboard for it Mar 25 05:44:36 hmm i'd say.. no Mar 25 05:44:52 screen is really tiny Mar 25 05:44:56 u need huge fonts Mar 25 05:45:03 and u end up with really minimal info display ability Mar 25 05:45:08 unless u hold it up really close Mar 25 05:45:11 (and then cant focus) Mar 25 05:45:11 :) Mar 25 05:45:18 I see Mar 25 05:45:28 even an n800/n810 is pushing it at 4.3" Mar 25 05:45:31 any rumors of a next-gen version of it? Mar 25 05:45:32 the fr is 2.8" Mar 25 05:45:40 3g perhaps? Mar 25 05:45:41 there are rumors Mar 25 05:45:56 om has been tight lipped about anything Mar 25 05:45:58 its up to them Mar 25 05:46:02 you will have to ask there Mar 25 05:46:14 i know i'm interested in doing an open phone that has better specs Mar 25 05:46:15 ie 3d Mar 25 05:46:27 wifi, bt, bigger screen, faster cpu/soc Mar 25 05:46:37 sounds like what I'm after Mar 25 05:47:09 problems are 1. 3g module - who where and what will make for one that at least on the kernel/os side is open Mar 25 05:47:20 thats the big missing bit Mar 25 05:47:27 the rest is solvable Mar 25 05:47:49 (well need to find camera module too, battery and a few other minor things) Mar 25 05:47:56 is initramfs compiled into uImage.bin? Mar 25 05:47:58 tried telit? Mar 25 05:48:20 they're open, not sure if they make a 3g module though Mar 25 05:48:50 some of their modules even have python built in Mar 25 05:48:58 though I'd prefer perl Mar 25 05:49:05 hmm Mar 25 05:49:06 no Mar 25 05:49:17 they're an italian company Mar 25 05:49:31 hmm Mar 25 05:49:32 wait Mar 25 05:49:34 http://www.telit.com/ Mar 25 05:49:45 are they the ones that have some python thing going? Mar 25 05:49:50 yeah Mar 25 05:50:09 ive got their gm862-quad-gps module Mar 25 05:50:16 it's not what I'd call "ultra tiny" Mar 25 05:50:18 but not bad Mar 25 05:50:26 also depends on cost Mar 25 05:50:35 eh, for the right hardware, I'd pay Mar 25 05:50:50 well how much are their umts/hspa modules in volume Mar 25 05:50:53 eg 1000+ Mar 25 05:50:59 or 10000+ Mar 25 05:51:00 etc. Mar 25 05:51:08 ballpark Mar 25 05:51:09 $300? Mar 25 05:51:19 I paid about that for a single module retail Mar 25 05:51:21 200? 100? 50? 70? 30? Mar 25 05:51:27 $300'ish if I remember right Mar 25 05:51:30 ok Mar 25 05:51:32 thats really pricey Mar 25 05:51:44 and that would totally blow out the gom cost Mar 25 05:51:56 that would be 50% of the whole bom cost Mar 25 05:52:08 hrm, the gm862 is now $99 without gps Mar 25 05:52:16 looks like prices came down Mar 25 05:52:31 $159 for the quad band with gps Mar 25 05:52:37 but thats not 3g Mar 25 05:52:40 true Mar 25 05:52:49 thats the problem Mar 25 05:52:55 ahh they are the python mob Mar 25 05:52:59 i liked there before Mar 25 05:53:02 was expensive Mar 25 05:53:38 wow, their 865 has wifi built in too Mar 25 05:53:39 how much do their prices go down when in volme Mar 25 05:54:01 i know that single units carry 50% -> 300% markup over volume prices Mar 25 05:54:24 looks like their new modules are much much smaller than the ones I have Mar 25 05:54:28 not seeing 3g though Mar 25 05:54:47 they list 3g modules Mar 25 05:54:56 the 864's Mar 25 05:55:02 perfect Mar 25 05:55:24 and the 865 I was looking at is wifi only Mar 25 05:55:28 <-- doesnt read italian Mar 25 05:55:37 864-e or 864-e-auto seem the right ones Mar 25 05:56:11 have you seen the avr32 line of mcu? Mar 25 05:56:23 hmm no Mar 25 05:56:29 very impressive, particularly considering its size and power consumption Mar 25 05:56:34 but my guess is at the level we're talking - avr32 doesnt compete Mar 25 05:56:41 it looks like its in the real low end space Mar 25 05:56:53 its not really a matter of how good is it within its domain Mar 25 05:57:11 its that it doesnt scale up to the 500mhz cortex-a8 range of performance Mar 25 05:57:48 they arent far behind Mar 25 05:58:28 ive been playing with atmels ngw100 devboard Mar 25 05:58:35 performs much better than I thought it would Mar 25 05:58:56 http://atmel.com/dyn/products/devices.asp?family_id=682 Mar 25 05:59:01 nihil: compared to what? Mar 25 05:59:14 compared to every other embedded linux device ive seen Mar 25 05:59:26 running it on APs and such Mar 25 05:59:28 do you have some benchmark that can give a reasonable performance comparison? Mar 25 06:00:06 not in solid numbers no Mar 25 06:00:19 but the ass-dyno is impressed Mar 25 06:00:24 as i said - best i know they are playing in the lower end space Mar 25 06:00:31 ie they'd possibly compete with armv4 Mar 25 06:00:35 @ 400mhz Mar 25 06:00:42 (and of course be lower power) Mar 25 06:00:53 but thats still many factors behind armv7 cortex Mar 25 06:01:02 so you're liking this omap3? Mar 25 06:01:49 omap3 is about 4x the performance of the armv4 in the freerunner (clock for clock) Mar 25 06:01:50 and yes Mar 25 06:01:55 i've bene playing with it a fair bit Mar 25 06:02:05 TI really are doing a good job supportign power management Mar 25 06:02:29 with a tickless kernel and their pm patches (going upstream to kernel) it really uses pretty much no power for the cpu core while idle Mar 25 06:02:38 nice Mar 25 06:02:40 it literally doesnt tick the clock and registers go into self-refresh Mar 25 06:02:58 at least the numebrs i saw was it was measuring 0v 0a in the cpu core Mar 25 06:02:59 when idle Mar 25 06:03:12 it only uses pwoer when it actually serviced an interrupt Mar 25 06:03:17 or actively computer Mar 25 06:03:25 u still have a cost for memory refresh and other components Mar 25 06:03:42 but at least cpu core is now "out of the loop" as long as u keep it idle as much as u can Mar 25 06:04:08 sounds like a nifty device Mar 25 06:05:04 well it is just a chip Mar 25 06:05:05 a soc Mar 25 06:05:17 ram and flash get put on in a pop arrangement Mar 25 06:05:26 its micro-bga too Mar 25 06:05:29 whihc lends to some issues Mar 25 06:05:34 ugh bga Mar 25 06:05:34 (production ones) Mar 25 06:05:49 I stand no chance of soldering that, even with a home-brew reflow oven Mar 25 06:05:54 ie finding a fab that can handle microbga Mar 25 06:05:59 yeah Mar 25 06:06:17 but you get a cpu, multi-playfield display with 2 rgb and 2 yuv layers Mar 25 06:06:31 a 430mhz dsp core that can do 8 instruction issue per cycle Mar 25 06:06:36 and a 3d core Mar 25 06:06:44 (sgx) and camera interfaces and a few other doobies Mar 25 06:06:50 lots of usb and sio lines Mar 25 06:06:52 sdio Mar 25 06:06:55 its a fairly nice chip Mar 25 06:07:10 sounds like a plan, when can we expect to see your prototype? :) Mar 25 06:07:12 in the scheme of things - its one of the best things to float by me in recent times Mar 25 06:07:16 hahaha Mar 25 06:07:22 that depends on many factors Mar 25 06:07:24 mostly money Mar 25 06:07:30 I'll buy one Mar 25 06:08:46 hell, I'll buy two Mar 25 06:08:55 hahaha Mar 25 06:09:09 well need to have it first Mar 25 06:10:50 pretty anodized CNC T-6 alum case Mar 25 06:11:11 with countersunk hex bolts Mar 25 06:11:58 perhaps borrow a video ipod connector Mar 25 06:12:10 seen several accessories that would go well with such a device Mar 25 06:14:34 alum is a problem Mar 25 06:14:35 RF Mar 25 06:14:40 true Mar 25 06:14:44 guess that rules out CF too Mar 25 06:14:52 at best you could do partial metal Mar 25 06:15:00 or a metal frame Mar 25 06:15:04 with plastic "panels" Mar 25 06:15:13 on some/several sides Mar 25 06:15:18 as a phone is RF-heaven Mar 25 06:15:30 (gsm/3g , wifi, bt, gps) Mar 25 06:15:36 its tough to block off RF Mar 25 06:15:56 u have to try keep the rf emittors away from eachother too Mar 25 06:16:34 ive got a buddy who is great with RF Mar 25 06:16:48 I'm sure he could come up with something suitable Mar 25 06:16:56 sure Mar 25 06:17:03 but the real problem is Mar 25 06:17:09 u have a prototype hand-build and hacked up Mar 25 06:17:17 really expensive as some bits were done in a fab as a 1-off Mar 25 06:17:22 (or maybe u made 5 of them) Mar 25 06:17:23 yeah Mar 25 06:17:24 what next? Mar 25 06:17:24 :) Mar 25 06:17:50 next is finalizing the design, sending it off to china to get made (and subsequently copied), then flood the market before they bring theirs out Mar 25 06:18:06 sending it off is a problem Mar 25 06:18:13 in that u'll need to pay for all the units/components Mar 25 06:18:17 wonder if olimex could handle that Mar 25 06:18:24 and finalising the design, gettign fcc and ec certs Mar 25 06:18:38 telit modules are already FCC approved Mar 25 06:18:42 having the factory have a propert test rig setup Mar 25 06:18:46 and all the software for the test rig Mar 25 06:18:47 etc. Mar 25 06:18:48 as are many of the other necessary modules Mar 25 06:18:49 sure Mar 25 06:18:50 modules are Mar 25 06:18:55 but u will need it for the rest too Mar 25 06:19:00 true Mar 25 06:19:03 ie that the device as a whole complies Mar 25 06:19:20 to be honest... i'm not a hardware guy Mar 25 06:19:28 this is just about the limit of what i know Mar 25 06:19:44 i'm in software... all i want is a damned decent platform to bend to my evil will :) Mar 25 06:23:50 same here Mar 25 06:24:02 must be tiny, powerful, and open Mar 25 06:27:53 tiny is a problem Mar 25 06:28:25 as u always have to make a compromise between screen size (ease to see stuff) vs size and longevity (battery size vs capacity) Mar 25 06:28:30 so how tiny.. is tiny? Mar 25 06:31:22 what's the module for wifi on the FR? Mar 25 06:31:58 UndrWater: ar6000 Mar 25 06:32:34 raster: thanks! Mar 25 06:34:18 :) Mar 25 06:34:53 does one modprobe that? I've lost my GUI (SHR), so I'm trying to "turn on wifi" Mar 25 06:35:10 UndrWater: taken a look in /sys? Mar 25 06:35:26 not yet...i will Mar 25 06:36:24 UndrWater: i think rfkill is the keyword Mar 25 06:38:32 well.. if we're talking about powerful on the go.. how much power do we need? and where do we need the power? CPU? Memory? Graphics? Mar 25 06:39:19 "as much as you can get" Mar 25 06:39:22 is the normal answer Mar 25 06:39:23 :) Mar 25 06:39:33 overkill is a good thing Mar 25 06:40:07 raster: sure ;-) but the cpu in the openmoko is powerful enough as i think Mar 25 06:40:33 imho it isnt Mar 25 06:40:44 1. 640x480 is a lot of pixels to fill Mar 25 06:40:55 the gfx chip isnt really that good at that Mar 25 06:41:43 2. somethng like an omap3 is capable of even being a laptop Mar 25 06:41:46 its powerful enough Mar 25 06:42:06 the more cpu grunt you have - the more freedom developers have Mar 25 06:42:28 well the graphics part is another thing.. the glamo is a huge problem Mar 25 06:42:59 any gfx solution these days is closed Mar 25 06:43:01 for embedded Mar 25 06:43:07 so u are left with software if u want open Mar 25 06:43:12 thus - get all the cpu grunt u can get Mar 25 06:43:35 raster: sure.. but on the openmoko we can't use it for graphic output.. or am i wrong? Mar 25 06:44:49 UndrWater: One is supposed to use frameworkd odeviced interface to turn on wifi. Mar 25 06:44:55 nezza-_-: a cpu can always generate gfx Mar 25 06:45:04 and the cpu on the freerunner has lcd out Mar 25 06:45:15 it can drive an lcd and can a framebuffer Mar 25 06:45:20 the glamo is not needed for that Mar 25 06:45:37 raster: okay.. i thought the glamo is between the lcd and the cpu.. Mar 25 06:47:40 god I hate p2k Mar 25 06:47:59 nezza-_-: on the freerunenr it is Mar 25 06:48:10 but the 2442 can work without the glamo and an lcd can be hooked to it Mar 25 06:48:18 raster: that was the point i was talking about :-) Mar 25 06:49:09 but the glamo just is a blob of ram Mar 25 06:49:15 u can write to it like any other ram Mar 25 06:49:20 its just very slow to write to it Mar 25 06:49:21 raster: sure, but it is slow Mar 25 06:49:37 the freerunner setup is fairly bad in that sense Mar 25 06:49:51 its a really high-rese screen atached to the other end of a chip that has a really slow pipe going to it Mar 25 06:50:01 u can do things with the cpu Mar 25 06:50:07 but its slow to get them out there Mar 25 06:50:17 the glamo itself only implements a subset of useful operations Mar 25 06:50:21 and even then they are limited Mar 25 06:50:30 it was designed more for wvga than vga res Mar 25 06:50:32 err qvga Mar 25 06:50:36 that vga Mar 25 06:50:38 than Mar 25 06:50:49 raster: i know i know.. and the slow connection was the point i was complaining about.. Mar 25 06:50:56 yes Mar 25 06:51:18 i'm wondering how this hooks into "how much power do we need? and where do we need the power? CPU? Memory? Graphics?" Mar 25 06:51:20 :) Mar 25 06:51:27 ie when talking a new soc Mar 25 06:51:36 we know the situation freerunner has Mar 25 06:51:46 < nezza-_-> raster: sure ;-) but the cpu in the openmoko is powerful enough as i think Mar 25 06:52:02 sorry, it's 8 o clock in the morning here ;-) Mar 25 06:52:37 hmm Mar 25 06:52:41 no Mar 25 06:52:45 even thats not powerful enough Mar 25 06:52:47 imho Mar 25 06:52:48 i'm a little bit tired and so i may not be able to get anything ;) Mar 25 06:53:01 of course .. whats "enough" Mar 25 06:53:08 hey raster, I don't suppose you know moto filesystem permission values? Mar 25 06:53:09 if all u want is a solid color bg to your widgets Mar 25 06:53:09 raster: okay.. in my company we are working with some new omap processors, they are really fast Mar 25 06:53:12 and simple bitmaps text Mar 25 06:53:13 fine Mar 25 06:53:19 if all uw ant is a static ui - sure Mar 25 06:53:24 if u want to make it dynamic Mar 25 06:53:24 raster: no.. i want animations :-) Mar 25 06:53:31 use blending, animation, smooth scrolling etc. Mar 25 06:53:36 then u want all u can get Mar 25 06:53:47 nihil: moto? Mar 25 06:53:51 motorola Mar 25 06:53:53 p2k Mar 25 06:54:01 errr Mar 25 06:54:05 whihc ones Mar 25 06:54:07 some run linux Mar 25 06:54:11 and beats me whats on them tho Mar 25 06:54:15 cdma Mar 25 06:54:16 i've never poked around really Mar 25 06:54:21 w755 Mar 25 06:54:23 nothing fancy Mar 25 06:54:23 sure. and it's important that things like screenrotation can be done 'in hardware' Mar 25 06:54:44 same basic setup as e815, v710, v3/rzr, etc... Mar 25 06:54:54 l7 and l6 fit in there too Mar 25 06:54:57 dont know it :( Mar 25 06:55:11 only moto i have is a rokr 36 Mar 25 06:55:15 I've always been a die hard moto fan Mar 25 06:55:20 and i never really fiddled with it beyond using it as a "real phone" Mar 25 06:55:22 but modding them is such a pain in the ass Mar 25 06:55:32 that's what prompted me to pull the trigger on the freerunner earlier this evening Mar 25 06:55:55 nezza-_-: put it this way. i think an omap3530 or 3535 or 3530 would be just the right thing Mar 25 06:56:06 at maybe 480x320 or 320x640 (no higher) Mar 25 06:56:08 raster: we are putting it in this direction. Mar 25 06:56:17 and u'd be able to have a very veyr very nice ui Mar 25 06:56:22 raster: but we use some 'higher' CPUs... as we have a large screen with 800x480 Mar 25 06:56:31 s/higher/faster Mar 25 06:56:35 i think it'd handle 800x480 Mar 25 06:56:39 in fact it is decent Mar 25 06:56:43 but i'd just not do that Mar 25 06:56:46 raster: sure, we're testing it already Mar 25 06:56:50 tho that depends on screen size Mar 25 06:56:54 i am talking 3-4" Mar 25 06:57:04 well the screensize is around 8" Mar 25 06:57:11 i have a s3x6410 driving 800x480 3.4" Mar 25 06:57:11 (no, it's not a netbook ;-) ) Mar 25 06:57:20 err s3c6410 Mar 25 06:57:27 the omap3 is about 2.5x the speed of the 6410 Mar 25 06:57:34 (on benchmarks) Mar 25 06:57:49 and the 6410 imoh is "just" able to sanely drive the screen attached to it Mar 25 06:58:00 so an omap3 would be "comfy" but not amazing Mar 25 06:58:04 go down to 640x320 Mar 25 06:58:16 and u have to drive many fewer pixels and u'd go from "comfy" to "wow" Mar 25 06:58:31 well in the past we've used a AT91SAM9261.. so almost ANY omap would be better Mar 25 06:59:03 raster: i know i know.. but for our needs it runs really good on 800x480 Mar 25 06:59:19 if we will run into trouble we will change the resolution Mar 25 06:59:36 but at the moment it's just so 'sharp & crispy' Mar 25 06:59:42 yeah Mar 25 07:00:33 raster: by the way i've just finished a product which uses EDJE.. I will send you a description via email :-) Mar 25 07:01:00 awesome! Mar 25 07:01:14 raster: yes.. the people who are using it are really pleased with it :-) Mar 25 07:01:21 cool Mar 25 07:01:22 thanks for your great work! Mar 25 07:01:27 mind u i accept it has its limits Mar 25 07:01:32 by all means Mar 25 07:01:42 its trying to walk a fine line between desgner and programmer Mar 25 07:01:54 allowing non-coders the ability to do layout and design and animation Mar 25 07:02:18 sure, but for 'non-coders' the documentation is not good enough at the moment i think :) Mar 25 07:03:09 and actually i'm working on something which uses elementary.. http://0x2a-blog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/podcastepisodes.png Mar 25 07:04:31 yeah Mar 25 07:04:33 docs suck atm Mar 25 07:04:57 thats always a problem Mar 25 07:05:06 aaah cool Mar 25 07:05:09 an rss feed reader Mar 25 07:05:17 loosk simple - but thats the point Mar 25 07:05:25 its meant to look simple but attractive Mar 25 07:08:23 raster: yes.. it's simple and effective Mar 25 07:08:27 easy to use on a touchscreen Mar 25 07:10:49 nezza-_-: thats its main goal for now Mar 25 07:10:54 must be ts friendly first Mar 25 07:11:00 i am keeping desktop in mind Mar 25 07:11:02 and so on Mar 25 07:11:07 but thats a "lower priority" Mar 25 07:11:37 raster: i'm thinking about writing a configuration tool for our touchscreen devices in elementary.. as it is simple to use and fast to write Mar 25 07:12:26 nezza-_-: thats good to hear Mar 25 07:12:33 if elementary is "hard" i'd like to know Mar 25 07:12:36 i know its different Mar 25 07:12:40 and docs are not abundant Mar 25 07:12:48 well some things are difficult to realize.. Mar 25 07:12:54 tho the test.c code does serve as a decent example Mar 25 07:13:05 for instance the huge api difference between list and toolbar Mar 25 07:13:06 but you do need to get youre head into it Mar 25 07:13:30 in it's default state no element of a toolbar is selected Mar 25 07:13:38 hmmm Mar 25 07:13:42 but if you click on one it is selected, but you can't just deselect it Mar 25 07:13:47 true Mar 25 07:13:48 in lists it is no problem Mar 25 07:14:00 tho i kind of left that up to the code to indicate which one to select :) Mar 25 07:14:22 i think that though is me not finishing off toolbar Mar 25 07:14:25 it should have 2 modes Mar 25 07:14:27 a select mode Mar 25 07:14:29 whihc it kind of does now Mar 25 07:14:32 and a "run mode" Mar 25 07:14:33 raster: sure, but sometimes the toolbar is just a good 'button row' ;-) Mar 25 07:14:47 whcih is more a matter that u press a toolbar item and it "does something" ones Mar 25 07:14:49 or 2 types of elements Mar 25 07:14:50 then goes unselected Mar 25 07:15:12 yes.. because if you click on it if it's already selected nothing will happen ;) Mar 25 07:15:36 yeah Mar 25 07:15:46 i think i just need to clear up the usability there Mar 25 07:15:54 so it does all of what i wanted from it Mar 25 07:16:31 but test.c is a very good documentation.. even though i still don't get some things ;) Mar 25 07:17:26 hahaha Mar 25 07:17:27 good! Mar 25 07:17:32 i need to do more examples Mar 25 07:17:35 but its a start Mar 25 07:17:51 combines actually writing code (need somethnig to drive the api) and testing and docs in 1 Mar 25 07:18:13 good morning Mar 25 07:18:31 * raster hops on Hopscotch Mar 25 07:18:33 :) Mar 25 07:23:07 Hahaha, Steve finally officialy comments on the buzz fix issue :) Mar 25 07:24:10 PaulFertser: url? Mar 25 07:25:12 husku: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-March/044493.html Mar 25 07:25:45 thx Mar 25 07:28:18 so the Buzz is justa A6 rev issue? Mar 25 07:29:04 raster: so how far is the 'wifi in bootloader' project? =P Mar 25 07:29:57 ooh that Mar 25 07:30:05 kexec handles that Mar 25 07:30:11 not sure how totally useful that is Mar 25 07:30:13 but hey Mar 25 07:30:14 :) Mar 25 07:30:31 raster: ;-) Mar 25 07:30:52 fredrin: the buzz is universal issue affecting all phone prior to reworked A6. Mar 25 07:31:10 fredrin: the buzz from external headset is an issue affecting all devices prior to A8. Mar 25 07:32:14 but if you use a2dp headset your cool? right? Mar 25 07:49:36 fredrin: no Mar 25 07:49:42 fredrin: a2dp is uni-directional. Mar 25 08:10:53 fredrin: but bluetooth headsets with mic support SCO (HSP or HFP) so it should be cool without any buzz and echo issues. Mar 25 08:11:22 PaulFertser: :) Mar 25 08:12:31 fredrin: why don't you want to try it yourself? FSO already has some support. Mar 25 08:12:52 PaulFertser: need to buy a headset first Mar 25 08:13:15 fredrin: you better borrow it. Mar 25 08:13:31 true Mar 25 08:14:21 fredrin: looks like not all headsets are compatible, at least the cheapest one i borrowed from my friend had some strange SCO issues (everything worked except there was no sound at all); and the one i borrowed from a co-worker worked fine (i didn't test GSM, only SCO sound output) with exactly the same configuration. Mar 25 08:40:35 "Tried fscking and it didn't seem to fix the problem." :) yeah, f*cking rarely helps to fix problems. Mar 25 08:42:09 ROFL Mar 25 08:50:39 PaulFertser: well, it fixes some problems. at least with wife :) Mar 25 08:53:01 and not to forget, it relaxes *tremendously* :) Mar 25 09:03:17 wtf are you guys talking about !! Mar 25 09:03:22 fsck - check and repair a Linux file system Mar 25 09:03:29 that's all what it does Mar 25 09:03:55 fsck --wife /dev/pussy Mar 25 09:03:57 LOL Mar 25 09:07:01 morning Mar 25 09:09:35 CVirus: fsck.vwife --pretend /dev/dummy Mar 25 09:10:20 lol Mar 25 09:10:52 PaulFertser: this is equivalent to the "masturbate" command :-p Mar 25 09:11:20 CVirus: you got the point :) Mar 25 09:11:24 haha Mar 25 09:11:33 Probably offtopic here. Mar 25 09:11:42 yeah .. I gotta get back to studying anyways .. later Mar 25 09:11:48 * PaulFertser wonders if _that_ can be offtopic on any IRC channel. Mar 25 10:22:07 Hi all Mar 25 10:22:09 :) Mar 25 10:43:04 hey panicking Mar 25 10:45:12 serdar1, hi Mar 25 10:45:48 panicking: did your fileserver changed? Mar 25 10:45:57 why Mar 25 10:45:57 it was slow last time Mar 25 10:46:00 ? Mar 25 10:49:19 seeseekey, i think that i don't remove the traffic shape Mar 25 10:49:29 serdar1, i think that i don't remove the traffic shape Mar 25 10:49:40 seeseekey, sorry wrong user Mar 25 10:57:51 panicking: you need better connection? Mar 25 10:59:01 serdar1, the server is an ixp425 with an usb pendrive in my home Mar 25 10:59:13 I have a server my own Mar 25 10:59:28 I have a call, we talk it later, brb Mar 25 11:02:02 ok Mar 25 11:04:31 panicking: I want create a openmoko blog for me, and I can share your files too, if you want Mar 25 11:05:12 perfect Mar 25 11:05:17 I can add as a mirror Mar 25 11:05:22 in dowload page Mar 25 11:06:08 okay, I am at work now, cannot do a thing now, and tonight I have to do with redcross, when are you available here? Mar 25 11:06:21 I was looking for you few weeks ago :D Mar 25 11:13:58 panicking: is 1G space enough? Mar 25 11:14:27 I use less that 100mb Mar 25 11:16:28 hmm okay than 100m Mar 25 11:16:53 I have only 2 Tb traffic, hope it is enough Mar 25 11:20:39 yes :) I think so Mar 25 11:21:34 serdar1: if it gets too much i could provide a mirror too without traffic limit. Mar 25 11:22:25 henk: that is my whole limit Mar 25 11:22:31 for my server :) Mar 25 11:24:22 serdar1: what do you mean? Mar 25 11:24:48 henk: traffic limit for a server? Mar 25 11:25:01 serdar1: 2tb per month? Mar 25 11:25:06 yes Mar 25 11:25:18 would be more than enough for my server... Mar 25 11:26:48 i've used 16G since start of the year 'g' Mar 25 11:30:30 serdar1, can you send me an email, with the details. I must help one friend with his business Mar 25 11:30:32 :) Mar 25 11:33:08 panicking: I am at work too :) Mar 25 11:58:37 this is odd, my screen powers down even when I am using applications Mar 25 11:58:50 any idea why that could be? Mar 25 12:07:41 Derick: which distro? Mar 25 12:12:25 FSO 5.1 Mar 25 12:12:32 it just started doing this Mar 25 12:12:38 rebooting now to see if that does things Mar 25 12:12:46 I was heavy using it (compiling on it) Mar 25 12:12:53 perhaps it messed up some video memory Mar 25 12:13:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r681bad1ab327 10/vapi/ecore.vapi: vapi: EcoreFdHandler is new class, might make constructor a static method (inline with GDir and friends?) Mar 25 12:13:51 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r7ed3c2a7b278 10/examples/library/mainloops.vala: Mar 25 12:13:51 freesmartphone.org: example/library: read from E mainloop Mar 25 12:13:51 freesmartphone.org: bidirectional communication indication seems to work now Mar 25 12:13:51 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r77446381b648 10/ (7 files in 3 dirs): eflvala: move first bits into library Mar 25 12:13:54 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * rfa97bd857224 10/ (Makefile.am configure.ac examples/Makefile.am): make library optional; improve wording Mar 25 12:14:34 you're... compiling on the phone. you know a cross compiler might be faster. Mar 25 12:14:48 for small stuff, not really. Mar 25 12:14:52 it is, but it caused issues with the linker... libtool Mar 25 12:14:57 It's not a slow processor. Mar 25 12:15:08 and messing with libtool is going to take a hell of a lot more time Mar 25 12:15:14 Compared to state of the art a decade ago say. Mar 25 12:15:19 I found many broken things though... mostly gtk .la files that are broken Mar 25 12:15:26 how would I go about fixing those in the distro? Mar 25 12:16:33 hmm, now it even does it while booting (and not boot) Mar 25 12:17:14 oh wait, I was beein impatient Mar 25 12:26:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UB6peyst3M Mar 25 12:33:24 freerunnerlive1: nice Mar 25 12:36:38 hmpf odd vpn client ... Mar 25 12:43:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW7jitXrfUI Mar 25 12:44:54 Hehe, http://koolu.org can has open dir. Mar 25 13:12:59 seems to be solved now btw Mar 25 13:13:09 I now have php+gtk+dbus all nicely working Mar 25 13:15:04 I've just got a message that my storage is full for text messages - if I put the memory card in will this change matters? I assumed the phone could store a fair amount of them. Mar 25 13:15:40 saracen_: afaik they're stored on the SIM, which has a limited capacity Mar 25 13:15:55 Yeah, my sim hardly stores any ;x Mar 25 13:16:28 basically the software stack, whatever you're currently using, needs to get support for slurping the messages to the phone memory and freeing the sim Mar 25 13:17:00 using shr atm =( Mar 25 13:52:19 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r0417b49d649b 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): examples: remove direct writing into the queue from mainloop example Mar 25 13:56:17 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * rd2869fbeb707 10/README: README: Elementary.h no longer needs patching Mar 25 13:57:36 saracen_: FSO should download SMS from SIM/modem-storage to userland Mar 25 13:59:08 mjr: basically *not* phone-mem but actually "computer"-mem. phone-mem is consideered to reside inside calypso Mar 25 14:03:04 okay, semantics, but I suppose that terminology is well-founded Mar 25 14:03:32 anyway, off the SIM to some other persistent storage :) Mar 25 14:11:55 DocScrutinizer: So, a formatted microsd card should do the trick? Mar 25 14:13:09 first of all you need to find out why it doesn't happen right now Mar 25 14:13:37 Well, the microsd card isnt in. Or do you mean it should already be saving them to the phones memory? Mar 25 14:14:15 if your NAND is completely crowded so not a single sms may fit, it might help to use uSD for aux storage Mar 25 14:15:12 yup, as inget it they should be moved to nand storage usually Mar 25 14:15:25 'Please write down the following SMSs on the auxilliary storage post-its provided.' Mar 25 14:15:34 s/ing3/i ge/ Mar 25 14:18:20 hmm, weird, got plenty of memory left, as displayed by df Mar 25 14:21:09 saracen_: SHR has sms still on SIM only Mar 25 14:23:30 saracen_: nevermind my nonsense Mar 25 14:23:32 sorry Mar 25 14:59:11 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r87b827ce9909 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): ophoned: use prefrences to configure the headset Mar 25 14:59:12 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r66e764b8a0fe 10/framework/ (4 files in 2 dirs): opreferencesd: enforce types in SetValue Mar 25 15:01:29 edje_cc: Error. Cannot create buffer engine canvas for image load. <- can anyone explain me this error? Mar 25 15:27:48 alldave. Mar 25 15:27:54 could someone explain me how "Timeouts settings" in SHR works? Mar 25 15:27:58 heh Mar 25 15:28:10 what is your problem? Mar 25 15:28:35 I don't understand the difference in lock, idle_prelock, idle and idle_dim Mar 25 15:29:25 Ack, my GUI is completely dead. Mar 25 15:30:49 /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm quits after a couple seconds without output. Mar 25 15:31:08 how did you get to that state? Mar 25 15:31:30 If I run Xglamo manually, I get an X screen, but I can't run enlightenment_start with it, it dies because of some missing function in a library or something... Mar 25 15:31:42 heh. upgrade *all* your libraries. Mar 25 15:32:02 I'm doing an `opkg upgrade` now. Mar 25 15:32:16 It's upgrading quite a bit, as is common for SHR-U. Mar 25 15:33:07 Oh, I know what it did. Mar 25 15:33:25 It failed in the middle of an opkg upgrade I did earlier... Mar 25 15:33:36 Heheh Mar 25 15:33:39 :p Mar 25 15:33:42 * Chocks blames navit Mar 25 15:35:11 * Digital_Pioneer doesn't have Navit. Ditched it. Mar 25 15:35:17 :o Mar 25 15:35:28 Couldn't figure out the UI. Mar 25 15:36:31 * Chocks nods Mar 25 15:36:36 plus it broke opkg upgrade Mar 25 15:46:00 Is libimlib2-loaders supposed to be replacing imlib2? Mar 25 15:47:16 moo Mar 25 16:08:33 ahoi Mar 25 16:11:16 ahoy Mar 25 16:11:29 ahoj Mar 25 16:12:02 ahough Mar 25 16:31:21 hmm how do I untar a .tar.bz2 in the neo? Mar 25 16:31:36 opkg install tar Mar 25 16:31:42 will make your life easier Mar 25 16:31:44 $ tar jxf archive.tar.bz2 Mar 25 16:31:44 tar: invalid option -- j Mar 25 16:31:55 busybox tar is sucky Mar 25 16:31:59 $ bunzip2 archive.tar.bz2 Mar 25 16:32:06 $ tar xf archive.tar Mar 25 16:33:38 ok thanks :) Mar 25 16:34:23 * Chocks curses complex routing issues. Mar 25 17:46:23 Does framework implement agpsd? Mar 25 17:53:54 hi all, i tried to install android on my GTA02 last night, but somthing happened and the phone is now blocked on boot Mar 25 17:54:13 on fso: block at agnstrom login - on android: loop on robot screen Mar 25 17:54:40 you need to prepare your SD card exactly, or android gets all upset. Mar 25 17:55:14 Chocks: yes, i followed the tuto, worked on first time, but reflash it and got upset Mar 25 17:55:28 how is it "upset"? Mar 25 17:55:41 looping on robot screen Mar 25 17:55:58 robot flashing, stop flashing, screen reload, loop Mar 25 17:56:04 which version did you try? Mar 25 17:56:14 Michael's cupcake image is at present the best one. Mar 25 17:56:28 with right kernel. Mar 25 17:56:50 a mix a various uImage-vXX and cupcake/no-cupcake Mar 25 17:57:06 if you mix and match you could have problems. Mar 25 17:57:12 s/could/will/ Mar 25 17:57:12 Chocks meant: if you mix and match you will have problems. Mar 25 17:57:22 yes, I confirm :) Mar 25 17:57:54 plus delete the crap from your SD card if you change versions. Mar 25 17:58:13 I've tried to restore uboot and fso, removing the sd, but still block on angstrom login prompt Mar 25 17:58:30 block? Mar 25 17:58:51 I just got the login prompt, it doesn't go further Mar 25 17:59:06 which login prompt? ssh, or some FSO thing on screen? Mar 25 17:59:18 on the screen Mar 25 17:59:31 om-gta02 login:_ Mar 25 18:00:31 could it be because I installed Qi to use android? should it be configure to start the system another way? Mar 25 18:03:38 i'll try to pass the prompt and let you know ;) Mar 25 18:50:21 LEINIR Mar 25 18:50:47 * leinir curtsies "Sir" :) Mar 25 18:52:44 D. Mar 25 18:54:58 moo. Mar 25 18:55:42 Indeed. Mar 25 18:57:20 rools! Mar 25 18:57:21 ya hoo Mar 25 18:57:26 * rooly has a brand new nephew Mar 25 18:57:31 9lbs, 9oz, 21" Mar 25 18:57:32 o: Mar 25 18:57:39 what OS? Mar 25 18:57:56 not sure yet Mar 25 18:58:07 might be a dual boot methodist/catholic Mar 25 18:58:12 uh oh. Mar 25 18:58:24 depressed _and_ guilty. Mar 25 18:58:53 boy don't you have alot to learn about catholics Mar 25 18:59:01 and methodists for that matter Mar 25 18:59:20 "a lot". Mar 25 18:59:35 * Chocks suggests he already knows far too much about both. Mar 25 18:59:51 do you know any educated members? Mar 25 19:00:02 oh dear. Mar 25 19:00:15 Yes, I talk to the pope each week. Mar 25 19:00:40 don't make a statement like that without the ability to back it up Mar 25 19:00:44 rooly! Mar 25 19:00:47 yo dave Mar 25 19:01:09 right, and the pope shouldn't make statements about condoms he doesn't understand. Mar 25 19:01:14 what's your point? Mar 25 19:01:20 fuck the pope Mar 25 19:01:25 :o Mar 25 19:01:29 he's not even running 3.0 Mar 25 19:01:41 condoms he does understand Mar 25 19:01:51 oh yeah? Mar 25 19:02:30 just because the pope is celibate doesn't mean he's necissarily a virgin Mar 25 19:02:55 so like i said Mar 25 19:02:55 of course, by allowing condom/contraceptive use amongst his followers, he is limiting chance of reproduction, which means less fresh meat to brainwash Mar 25 19:03:16 don't make a statement like that when you have no way of backing it up Mar 25 19:03:35 what up dave Mar 25 19:03:37 how ya's doin Mar 25 19:03:37 shame. Christians do that all the time. Mar 25 19:03:46 Watch out, you might offend rooly and his religious view :P Mar 25 19:03:47 views Mar 25 19:03:54 has anyone found a larger capacity battery for the FR? Mar 25 19:03:58 Chocks, they sure do. And i tell them the same thing Mar 25 19:04:05 good. Mar 25 19:04:07 * Chocks pats. Mar 25 19:04:22 nihil: not that I've seen (except for external ones that provide USB power) Mar 25 19:04:24 https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1946 << that's one nasty bug. Mar 25 19:04:25 And in all fairness, my knowledge of methodists is quite limited. Mar 25 19:04:35 anyway. Mar 25 19:05:05 mmontour: thanks, I wonder if the spacer casing that one company made would accomodate a larger battery instead of their multimedia receiver Mar 25 19:05:24 FR is already too phat. Mar 25 19:05:32 true Mar 25 19:05:50 rooly, you gettin' hitched soon? ;p Mar 25 19:05:55 me? no Mar 25 19:05:59 why? Mar 25 19:06:00 hahaha Mar 25 19:06:03 nothing :P Mar 25 19:06:07 just thought I'd ask for the hell of it Mar 25 19:06:19 if i knew the right girl, maybe Mar 25 19:06:22 and No, I'm not mocking your dating success in any way :) Mar 25 19:06:26 yeah, exactly Mar 25 19:06:28 :o Mar 25 19:06:34 same Mar 25 19:06:35 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6565189083.html Mar 25 19:06:47 very thick with that spacer Mar 25 19:07:03 nihil: ew ;-) Mar 25 19:07:22 I bet you could cram some serious battery in it though Mar 25 19:07:39 yes. and put a serious bulge in your trousers. Mar 25 19:07:47 like I need another one of those Mar 25 19:08:00 afk Mar 25 19:08:00 there's a monster in my pants, and it does a funny dance. Mar 25 19:08:25 plus a battery that was that size would double the FR weight Mar 25 19:08:26 bbq Mar 25 19:08:35 * nihil cant wait for his FR to show up Mar 25 19:08:54 got pissed off with p2k/moto last night and finally hit "proceed to checkout" Mar 25 19:09:00 :p Mar 25 19:09:31 even worse, CDMA/VZW p2k Mar 25 19:10:05 it dawned on me that I'd much rather be playing with a different device Mar 25 19:11:17 * rooly laughs Mar 25 19:13:20 so I've seen the openmoko wiki, but not too many "user" pages about things that are being done with the FR Mar 25 19:13:48 is it a stale area? or is nobody sticking their crap on das interweb Mar 25 19:14:19 I know Mar 25 19:14:23 It's bad. Mar 25 19:14:34 It took me some days to go through it and catch up with everything. Mar 25 19:14:37 and it's still confusing. Mar 25 19:14:38 A) Everybody wrote wiki pages Mar 25 19:14:46 B) Nobody wrote apps to go with them Mar 25 19:14:48 but I think I can answer 90% of your questions Mar 25 19:15:41 not sure what questions I have just yet Mar 25 19:15:58 just trying to get a feel of what the community is doing with the devices Mar 25 19:16:11 everything and nothing. Nothing is really complete yet. Mar 25 19:16:14 nihil: mostly cursing at it, trying to get it to work at all Mar 25 19:16:22 Having them sit on the shelf and being looked at I suspect for >90% of them Mar 25 19:16:31 * nihil winces Mar 25 19:16:55 mine did until I got an 8GB sd. which I'm not even using presently :p Mar 25 19:17:04 and recovered the battery Mar 25 19:17:09 see, its like this: a great many of the people who bought them did so under the false pretense that this was a finished system that worked well Mar 25 19:17:15 I suspect many people expected them to be a sort-of-functional 'main' phone much,much sooner than this. Mar 25 19:17:23 I've got a 2G tf/msd laying around, that should be plenty for embedded Mar 25 19:17:36 I knew it was going to be a hard slog, I'm just disappointed at so much splintering Mar 25 19:17:40 * rooly enjoys fighting with his computers. it lets him know they are actually doing something Mar 25 19:17:44 On the other hand, real progress is being made and important bugs are being fixed. There is still (some) hope for the project Mar 25 19:17:48 nihil: the plan was to put movies and music on it. Mar 25 19:17:55 mmontour: yessir. Mar 25 19:18:02 * rooly will buy the gta03 Mar 25 19:18:08 well, I do eventually want to replace my phones (currently a BB8800 and moto w755) with it, but I have no delusions about it being a finished product Mar 25 19:18:17 since it will have superior hardware, then i'll hack around on the gta02 Mar 25 19:18:32 GTA03 may not have superior hardware in all areas Mar 25 19:18:36 * rooly HAS replaced it as his every day-use phone Mar 25 19:18:41 some features get dropped as I understand it. Mar 25 19:18:49 which? Mar 25 19:18:53 gps i can live without Mar 25 19:19:07 * Chocks finally replaced his *PINK* razr with FR. Mar 25 19:19:11 that can be done using triangulation, phone side Mar 25 19:19:15 rooly: yes - but is it a phone that's suitable to hand to your average 'tech' person, and they can use it without much hastle as a basic phone, or ... Mar 25 19:19:39 SpeedEvil: no, the FR and the neo1973 are both hacker phones Mar 25 19:19:44 people who like breaking stuff Mar 25 19:19:58 simply to see how it works, then to fix it, possibly making it better Mar 25 19:20:06 its not a nerd toy or a techie phone Mar 25 19:20:07 afk Mar 25 19:20:42 IMO, they are not hacker phones - with _minor_ hardware mods, both could be end-user suitable. Mar 25 19:20:45 It's a hacker OS. Mar 25 19:20:55 ideally I want a small device that will replace all my phones, GPS nav, and laptop (for minor excursions) Mar 25 19:21:30 ive got an adapter that will turn a small computer into a CD changer for VAG vehicles Mar 25 19:21:40 would like to plug that in when in the car as well Mar 25 19:22:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra8e7bfd7d95c 10/ (8 files in 5 dirs): Mar 25 19:22:45 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [FREESCALE NEPTUNE] fix call handling to report outgoing calls properly Mar 25 19:22:45 freesmartphone.org: misc other fixes Mar 25 19:27:05 back Mar 25 19:28:40 I'd really like to see a device with an iphone/video ipod compatible port. saw some video glasses that looked good Mar 25 19:28:49 an open device that is Mar 25 19:29:20 :o Mar 25 19:29:29 i'd like to see an apple device with a compatible port to other things for once Mar 25 19:29:50 hah, good luck with that Mar 25 19:29:50 I'd like a moonannastick Mar 25 19:30:27 even the hotel I was in last week had an ipod dock in the alarm clock Mar 25 19:30:33 heh Mar 25 19:30:53 * rooly sighs Mar 25 19:30:58 never mind the bible in the drawer Mar 25 19:31:11 lol Mar 25 19:31:13 havent seen a bible in a drawer in a few years Mar 25 19:31:32 pretty much every hotel room has them. Mar 25 19:31:33 woot! Mar 25 19:31:38 Scheduled Delivery: 27-March-2009 Mar 25 19:31:46 just got shipping notification Mar 25 19:31:51 cue xkcd cartoon. Mar 25 19:32:13 chocks: I haven't seen a bible in a hotel in a while Mar 25 19:32:17 hmm Mar 25 19:32:44 * Chocks suggests you haven't (a) looked, or (b) been in a hotel in a while Mar 25 19:32:51 hotel in SF last week didnt have one, the one in chicago two months ago didnt have one, NY 4 months ago didnt have one Mar 25 19:32:57 heh Mar 25 19:33:02 and yes, I look, and have been in them very recently Mar 25 19:33:03 those cities are too liberal. Mar 25 19:33:07 just got back home monday Mar 25 19:33:12 from SF Mar 25 19:33:18 hotel I stayed at by Disneyland had one. Mar 25 19:33:42 disneyland of all places Mar 25 19:33:43 or the Gideons got bored. Mar 25 19:34:00 disney affiliated hotels I would totally expect to find them Mar 25 19:34:00 it was a Marriot, IIRC Mar 25 19:34:11 but yes, some disney theming in it. Mar 25 19:35:05 anyway Mar 25 19:35:10 should be a FR in each drawer. or something. Mar 25 19:35:16 _really_ piss people off. Mar 25 19:35:35 if I can get a few company specific apps done for the FR, I think I can convince the suits to pick up a 10 pack Mar 25 19:35:41 lol Mar 25 19:35:56 * nihil *hearts* job security Mar 25 19:36:06 3 grand for a half-complete phone!? Mar 25 19:36:16 nonono, for TEN half complete phones :) Mar 25 19:36:38 of course, the gps combined with scriptable sms and phone and gprs... Mar 25 19:36:45 vs 2 grand or so over 2 years for one iphone :p Mar 25 19:36:45 3 grand? Mar 25 19:36:49 hahahaha Mar 25 19:37:01 ten halfs doesn't even equal one hre Mar 25 19:37:03 here Mar 25 19:37:03 4 grand even, including tax and delivery. Mar 25 19:37:10 we've spent far more on blackberry Mar 25 19:37:10 OPENMOKO DEFIES MATH Mar 25 19:37:17 lol Mar 25 19:37:24 * rooly goes to the store Mar 25 19:37:26 bbiab Mar 25 19:37:28 nihil: I'm sure you have. Mar 25 19:38:03 BB is ok for what it is, but it lacks apps specific to my needs Mar 25 19:38:13 even simple things, like an ssh client that doesnt suck balls Mar 25 19:38:23 but it has a keyboard :p Mar 25 19:38:57 port SHR to G1 - opinions? Mar 25 19:38:58 true, but I've been eyeballing these: Mar 25 19:39:05 http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/8193/ Mar 25 19:39:32 would rock to see that built into a phone Mar 25 19:39:43 hm, yes Mar 25 19:40:00 ahh Mar 25 19:40:16 unless they have improved alot Mar 25 19:40:17 bit tricky to see in brightly lit places, or use on a train without a flat surface Mar 25 19:40:29 or a lot. Mar 25 19:40:47 all sacrafices one can easily make for the sake of "damn that's cool" Mar 25 19:40:50 ;) Mar 25 19:41:02 * Chocks blames Apple Mar 25 19:41:10 power intensive? Mar 25 19:41:22 dunno, haven't seen one in person yet Mar 25 19:41:52 if worse comes to worse, I've got one of those rubbery roll-up waterproof keyboards Mar 25 19:42:11 that is cool Mar 25 19:42:28 got it to keep in the car for the planned carpc Mar 25 19:42:38 ic another shr unstable is arrived Mar 25 19:43:01 i was rather hoping for a milestone Mar 25 19:43:30 * Chocks just did a "ps ax" and misread "wakerd" as something else. Mar 25 19:43:39 since kustomizer worked out so well Mar 25 19:44:44 * Chocks pulls latest SHR comedy Mar 25 19:46:12 dammit. why doesn't SHR keep the config files that you don't want to look at right now, like apt? Mar 25 19:46:19 s/SHR/opkg/ Mar 25 19:46:19 Chocks meant: dammit. why doesn't opkg keep the config files that you don't want to look at right now, like apt? Mar 25 19:48:04 s/wtf/autoresponse?/g Mar 25 19:48:09 nope Mar 25 19:48:40 nice try. Mar 25 19:48:52 moo Mar 25 19:48:55 s/moo/woof!/ Mar 25 19:48:56 Chocks meant: woof! Mar 25 19:49:25 mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Mar 25 19:49:31 s/o/oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo/g Mar 25 19:49:31 Chocks meant: moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... Mar 25 19:49:37 hm. Mar 25 19:53:37 heh, needs a match in previous statement eh? Mar 25 19:53:58 s/statement/ass/ig Mar 25 19:54:00 s/statement/ass/ Mar 25 19:54:01 nihil meant: s/ass/ass/ig Mar 25 19:54:07 hah Mar 25 19:54:25 it doesn't understand the trailing conditions Mar 25 19:54:25 s/ass/donkey/ Mar 25 19:54:34 it's IRC :p Mar 25 19:55:01 eh, a '.*' at the end of that string compare would fix that Mar 25 19:55:32 geek. Mar 25 19:55:39 heheh Mar 25 20:19:13 back Mar 25 20:19:20 sid Mar 25 20:19:22 +e Mar 25 20:19:30 who's +e Mar 25 20:19:34 what does +e even represent Mar 25 20:19:37 friend of sid. Mar 25 20:19:42 i know that +v is voice and +b is ban... Mar 25 20:23:42 wtf!%#%*@@*# apt spoiling my ignore filters Mar 25 20:23:54 aww. Mar 25 20:23:59 * Chocks laffs. Mar 25 20:24:17 * Chocks laffs at Doc's foolishness Mar 25 20:24:21 s/laffs/laughs/ Mar 25 20:24:40 * Chocks pokes apt Mar 25 20:27:15 apt: wake up Mar 25 20:27:16 * apt throws a barrel-full of ice water on up and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" Mar 25 20:27:51 apt: annoy DocScrutinizer Mar 25 20:27:52 * apt dances around DocScrutinizer, poking whenever possible, tickling or doing whatever necessary to annoy DocScrutinizer to the maximum amount Mar 25 20:28:56 henk: please! Mar 25 20:29:53 * rooly snickers Mar 25 20:29:57 i'm apt-proof Mar 25 20:31:04 apt: beer rooly Mar 25 20:31:05 * apt pours a pint of Guinness for rooly Mar 25 20:31:08 * rooly dodges like neo Mar 25 20:31:19 don't like beer Mar 25 20:31:31 apt: unbeer rooly; coffee rooly Mar 25 21:15:01 anyone running android from SD card with u-boot? Mar 25 21:29:03 Zorkman: you? ;-) Mar 25 21:29:35 I think the wiki instructions might be a bit old, especially for cupcake Mar 25 21:32:30 Chocks: it boots fine (only one message about not being able to acces tty device), but then it seems that there is no ts-capabilities, and the phone service crashed after a minute Mar 25 21:32:43 hm, which version? Mar 25 21:33:13 you almost certainly want to use Michael's cupcake, until Koolu finish with the released of merged stuff Mar 25 21:33:33 you might have a kernel mismatch or something. Mar 25 21:33:39 uImage-v15-ex1.bin and freerunner-v14.6.jffs2.1 Mar 25 21:33:51 that could indicate kernel mismatch :p Mar 25 21:33:56 could. Mar 25 21:34:07 I think when I tried it, there was no ex1 Mar 25 21:34:14 but try cupcake Mar 25 21:34:23 where is it located? Mar 25 21:34:40 there's a link from the wiki page to Michael's stuff Mar 25 21:34:52 btw: you used qi? (if that is the case, i think it might just be the time to start using it also, i'll ahve to switch one day) Mar 25 21:35:08 I have, but too confusing right now. Mar 25 21:35:12 not quite the control I wanted. Mar 25 21:35:23 will revist in a few weeks Mar 25 21:35:47 http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/uImage-v16.bin and http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/freerunner-v14.6-cupcake.jffs2 ? Mar 25 21:35:54 aye Mar 25 21:36:29 also: the wiki is quite confusing, i know that android normally need a media and a data partition, with the media partition bein FAT, Mar 25 21:36:44 yes, not well described, like much of the wiki :p Mar 25 21:36:50 :) Mar 25 21:36:55 but with u-boot the first one has to contain the kernel and the second the filesystem Mar 25 21:37:03 should i make a third partition for it? Mar 25 21:37:16 or does that init.rc script handles it all well that is provided in the wiki Mar 25 21:37:32 you can try; but you might run into problems. there's some assumptions being made which the wiki doesn't describe well Mar 25 21:38:14 anyway, bbiab. good luck. Mar 25 21:38:34 thanks :) Mar 25 22:11:14 moo Mar 25 22:19:53 ~lart OE and its unbuildable perl-native package Mar 25 22:19:53 * apt send killer squirrels to attack OE and its unbuildable perl-native package Mar 25 22:24:36 Zorkman: if you figure out what works, update the wiki with it Mar 25 22:24:47 the wiki is not read-only, you know. that's the point of the wiki Mar 25 22:27:57 :o Mar 25 22:28:18 the problem is, parts of the wiki are not easily readable ;-) Mar 25 22:36:20 back Mar 25 22:36:21 r1 Mar 25 22:36:22 side Mar 25 22:36:38 gonna go kill off the other laptop's stuff Mar 25 22:36:40 brb Mar 25 22:36:43 Chocks: so fix 'em Mar 25 22:36:52 I have been doing :p Mar 25 22:37:08 done Mar 25 22:37:43 you may note that the present USB networking page is substantially my work. Or was - it's probably morphed a bit since June Mar 25 22:38:45 Many of the pages could do with a huge clean out, but it takes a lot of time, even for one page. Mar 25 22:39:18 other stuff is just formatted really badly, and that can often be fixed in a few seconds. That's a lot of what I've been doing recently. Mar 25 22:40:21 wiki syntax is not always obvious to new contributors, and sometimes people put a lot of random stuff in that looks really funky :-| Mar 25 22:45:34 cheese boy. Mar 25 22:45:35 hello Mar 25 22:45:53 could someone advise me how you get the battery cover off without long finger nails? Mar 25 22:45:54 haha Mar 25 22:45:59 guitar pick. Mar 25 22:46:19 dont have one Mar 25 22:46:20 plastic knife Mar 25 22:46:24 dont have one Mar 25 22:46:31 cheese wrapper Mar 25 22:46:35 ? Mar 25 22:47:13 do u really have to pull down on it? Mar 25 22:47:22 i can get my fingernail in just barely though Mar 25 22:50:37 SomeT: easy to show visually, harder to describe in text. Basically you put the palm of your hand against the back of the FR, curl your fingers over the top, and pull back on the top of the case Mar 25 22:51:49 doesn't work with sweaty palms Mar 25 22:52:02 so annoying, lol Mar 25 22:52:05 cant get it open Mar 25 22:52:08 still Mar 25 22:52:16 with a tooth? Mar 25 22:52:18 :O Mar 25 22:52:22 you are laughing at something annoying? Mar 25 22:53:15 I'm dead. lol Mar 25 22:55:23 SomeT: wait 1 week.. and you will have long enough nails :) Mar 25 22:56:26 original neo was shipped with a guitar pick. I guess they decided it wasn't needed for FR. Mar 25 22:58:15 The pick was for taking off the front of the case (to attach a debug board) Mar 25 23:01:10 still cant this open, haha Mar 25 23:01:13 so frustrating Mar 25 23:01:24 SomeT: at one end there is a little indent Mar 25 23:01:38 like a gap Mar 25 23:01:41 (the top end) Mar 25 23:01:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r0b8312af7c25 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): library: start with better thread class Mar 25 23:02:26 i know Mar 25 23:02:30 but nothing works Mar 25 23:02:36 no matter how much i pry it open Mar 25 23:03:21 simply take your fingernail - even if its short, and pry away from the case Mar 25 23:03:24 it pops off Mar 25 23:03:25 easily Mar 25 23:03:29 do i reallu have to force it? Mar 25 23:03:37 yes Mar 25 23:03:41 it takes a little pressure Mar 25 23:03:49 sorted Mar 25 23:03:51 cheers mate Mar 25 23:04:00 sounds a pathetic thing to ask Mar 25 23:04:09 its just a plastic cover Mar 25 23:04:11 but i worry about breaking something i just paid £270 for, lol Mar 25 23:04:19 nothing sensitive there Mar 25 23:04:24 raster: you're amazing :) Mar 25 23:04:55 he just said it straight forward Mar 25 23:04:58 ??? Mar 25 23:05:00 no faffing around, haha Mar 25 23:05:10 just force it off Mar 25 23:05:14 dont know why i didnt think of it Mar 25 23:05:23 now to carefully insert my sim car and sd card Mar 25 23:05:24 raster: until you came nobody could explain him what to do. It took a great coder and artist to really help him ;) Mar 25 23:05:41 errr hmm ok. Mar 25 23:05:46 haha Mar 25 23:05:54 well i am a noob Mar 25 23:06:00 but not to linux Mar 25 23:06:09 SomeT: what distro did you decicde on? Mar 25 23:06:20 dunno yet Mar 25 23:06:23 i have opened gta01/02 cases often enough Mar 25 23:06:24 SomeT: i thought you had almost no nail at all, i tried to open it without using nails and failed too btw. Mar 25 23:06:24 i really want neopwn Mar 25 23:06:25 both front and abck Mar 25 23:06:29 but its out of reach Mar 25 23:06:29 never needed a tool Mar 25 23:06:42 i dont Mar 25 23:06:42 SomeT: what do you want Mar 25 23:06:50 neopwn Mar 25 23:06:51 haha Mar 25 23:06:52 SomeT: don't worry, i also was a noob when i started with the FR, and look at me know Mar 25 23:06:53 I can already boot it :p Mar 25 23:06:58 (most of the time ;-)) Mar 25 23:07:06 Zorkman: but can you make a call? Mar 25 23:07:22 for a pure reliable phone that wakes up, lives well on battery, and etc, use some FSO distro Mar 25 23:07:36 or Qtopia :p Mar 25 23:07:46 i looked a bit at Qtopia Mar 25 23:07:50 for a fully featured phone, use qtopia 4.4.1/4.4.3 or 4.3.2 Mar 25 23:08:02 rooly: well, for a "phone" yes. fully featured, no :p Mar 25 23:08:04 i was also looking at Android purely because i use google services a lot for work related reasons Mar 25 23:08:28 Chocks: yeah, full phone except for wake-up alarms Mar 25 23:08:46 in shr, whats the best way to mute the main speakers? Mar 25 23:08:55 heh. Mar 25 23:09:07 they mute after about 3 seconds if you plug in headphones Mar 25 23:09:12 Chocks: most of the time :) (although after sending an sms it stops working :)) Mar 25 23:09:52 All FR problems can be solved with a bigger hammer. Mar 25 23:10:32 lol Mar 25 23:10:50 right Mar 25 23:10:56 i have got the sim card holder up Mar 25 23:10:56 i bet the Fr can even break your hammer Mar 25 23:11:01 what about sd card holder Mar 25 23:11:06 what latches do i have to pull up? Mar 25 23:11:08 only way to get hammer working again is pulling battery out and reflashing ;) Mar 25 23:11:15 SomeT: heh. it's real fiddly first time Mar 25 23:11:32 SomeT: it's tricky, when you have it open, applie the super-cellotape-hax Mar 25 23:11:47 the SD clips don't really work properly Mar 25 23:12:02 my SD is held down by sim holder Mar 25 23:12:18 SomeT: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/sdcard-handle/ ? Mar 25 23:12:35 * rooly 's sim holds properly Mar 25 23:12:39 The SD clips work fine IME - unless you've bent them. Mar 25 23:12:46 which is way too easy Mar 25 23:13:06 * rooly is careful too so... Mar 25 23:13:27 SpeedEvil: i find them not very userfriendly Mar 25 23:13:27 how do u get the clips/latches open? Mar 25 23:13:33 i cant even see them? Mar 25 23:13:35 SomeT: just put fingernail under the end of the microsd metal cover Mar 25 23:13:42 (where the gap is) Mar 25 23:13:44 and pull up Mar 25 23:13:49 it needs a bit of pressure Mar 25 23:14:19 i found that a lot harder to do when the cards in Mar 25 23:14:19 did u get the sim card holder open first? Mar 25 23:14:29 yes Mar 25 23:14:49 hopefull i aint broke it Mar 25 23:14:53 i pushed it down first Mar 25 23:14:57 rather than pulling up, lol Mar 25 23:15:06 it seems fine anyway its meant to be loose anyway Mar 25 23:15:15 as the battery holds into place properly right? Mar 25 23:15:42 the sim holder holds it down Mar 25 23:16:00 You don't want to rely on the battery for that. my battery springs are loose, for example Mar 25 23:16:28 Chocks: for android did you use init-sd.rc from the panicking site? Mar 25 23:17:04 (slide that up away from its hinge at the edge of the battery compartment, then it will pull up easily - to put it back just do the reverse - flip down and slide back to click into place) Mar 25 23:18:06 so printing saying "Lock -->" Mar 25 23:18:39 and "<-- Open" even Mar 25 23:19:10 you slide before tilting Mar 25 23:19:10 in both cases Mar 25 23:19:10 at least on GTA01 - I understnad the clips to be identical Mar 25 23:19:13 slide, then turn phone upside down, and the SIM/SD socket should flop down Mar 25 23:19:29 i done it! Mar 25 23:19:34 Zorkman: I may have just tried to hack it. I tried Android with jffs2. I then tried my built, but that had unrelated issues I didn't get to the bottom of. Mar 25 23:19:35 The SD holder is different (worse) on GTA02 Mar 25 23:19:36 without bending or ruiing it, lol Mar 25 23:19:50 DocScrutinizer: yeah... those labels :) Mar 25 23:19:52 i dont know why the sd card slot aint on the outside, lol Mar 25 23:19:52 SpeedEvil: gta01 is inverse Mar 25 23:19:53 Zorkman: in other words, I don't have a good answer Mar 25 23:20:05 doc|home: Thanks. Mar 25 23:20:10 DocScrutinizer Mar 25 23:21:16 the SIM holder is worse on 01. much worse Mar 25 23:21:38 Personally, I find it OK - once you're used to it. Easy to use, ... Mar 25 23:21:53 However, that requires passing the half-hour swearing course. Mar 25 23:21:56 * eolson successfully updates moko11 on gta01 with no problems (woo!) Mar 25 23:22:13 hmm, how can i delete some launcher icons from illume ;x Mar 25 23:22:25 cooool! :-L Mar 25 23:22:26 delete from /usr/share/application Mar 25 23:22:33 eolson: :) Mar 25 23:22:34 err :-) Mar 25 23:22:39 some may also be in .e Mar 25 23:22:39 ah, ty Chocks Mar 25 23:23:03 already checked there, thus confused Mar 25 23:23:05 or opkg remove :p Mar 25 23:23:19 well, i dont even have the package for a lot of them ;x Mar 25 23:23:30 yeah, wiki instructions worked great :) Mar 25 23:32:48 right Mar 25 23:34:38 i just powered up my openmoko Mar 25 23:34:46 how do i get into the settings menu Mar 25 23:34:53 can i not do this whilst its charging? Mar 25 23:35:18 heh, this'll be the default flash distro? Mar 25 23:35:25 See the getting started guide on the wiki Mar 25 23:36:00 ok thanks Mar 25 23:36:15 im starting with the default Mar 25 23:36:20 so i can get used to it Mar 25 23:36:23 You'll end up with more questions than answers, but it's a start Mar 25 23:36:29 i always do that with every linux device i buy Mar 25 23:36:49 Problem is, the default is very dated Mar 25 23:36:49 i did it with my asus eeepc i started using xandros which was terrible Mar 25 23:36:53 then ubuntu Mar 25 23:36:57 now backtrack, haha Mar 25 23:37:23 Well, the default on my Linux machine was XP :p Mar 25 23:38:39 xp is alright Mar 25 23:38:49 Not for running Linux Mar 25 23:40:53 definitly Mar 25 23:41:39 on google android Mar 25 23:41:48 is it still possible to get debian running with in it? Mar 25 23:41:53 * SpeedEvil deeply objects to having to buy windows with some hardware. Mar 25 23:41:54 and basic linux apps? Mar 25 23:42:18 WEll, I suppose. You'd have to make a chroot. But android doesn't use a real X server Mar 25 23:42:53 ah ok Mar 25 23:43:09 Similar issues with Qtopia Mar 25 23:43:22 whats the best one then? Mar 25 23:43:29 heh. Mar 25 23:43:34 depends what you want to do. Mar 25 23:43:36 if i wanna run basic linux apps along with decent usability Mar 25 23:43:51 SHR. Or if you want full Debian, hackable:1 Mar 25 23:44:13 or Qtopia, if you want a working phone (mostly) Mar 25 23:44:42 if you want a barebones phone, fso-illume with zhone, or fso-paroli Mar 25 23:44:57 no shortage of choice. Mar 25 23:45:32 But if you want Debian, you'll want to get another SD card. Mar 25 23:45:51 contacts, sms, dialer, and recent calls Mar 25 23:45:58 unless someone wants to roll an emdebian for it Mar 25 23:46:43 what i want to do at the min Mar 25 23:46:49 is make it go on silent Mar 25 23:47:01 how can i do in the terminal Mar 25 23:47:09 i cant figure out from the commans i already know Mar 25 23:47:27 Don't tortore yourself with the default distro. Mar 25 23:47:30 torture Mar 25 23:47:58 haha Mar 25 23:48:06 is it eaasy to change the distro Mar 25 23:48:14 to the wikimobile! Mar 25 23:48:21 all there :p Mar 25 23:48:30 can i use a live cd do you reckon? Mar 25 23:48:38 i am kidding btw, lol Mar 25 23:48:41 * Chocks spanks Mar 25 23:48:43 SomeT: It is. Ive done it 4 times since I got my moko... Mar 25 23:48:47 sure, just pop it in the CD drive Mar 25 23:48:49 that was on monday Mar 25 23:49:08 wiki gets you up to speed pretty quickly, and the guys in here :) Mar 25 23:49:33 Moderately easy. Flash a new kernel + rootfs (or reformat SD card and un-tar an image there) then tweak your bootloader for whatever quirks your new distro requires. Mar 25 23:49:39 how do i tell when its finished charging? Mar 25 23:50:04 hope your current distro tells you Mar 25 23:50:21 shr/fso distro's inform you with a blue led light on the powerbutton Mar 25 23:50:30 you can also type in "apm" in the terminal Mar 25 23:50:39 oh, thats what that led is for Mar 25 23:50:56 orange is charging, blue is fully charged... Mar 25 23:51:01 it just as a lighting symbol in the batter thing Mar 25 23:51:15 would like it better if they used the red aux led for that, that is the powerdraining monster on the GTA055's Mar 25 23:51:27 i cant see no light? Mar 25 23:51:40 2008.12 probably doesn't use it Mar 25 23:51:52 The LEDs are controlled by software Mar 25 23:51:52 um Mar 25 23:51:54 SomeT: try to type "apm" in your terminal Mar 25 23:51:57 i just did Mar 25 23:52:05 it says online, battery charging Mar 25 23:52:11 i like this phone already, lol Mar 25 23:52:31 its not simple just how i like it Mar 25 23:52:47 The true charging info lives in some /sys nodes - there's one for the PMU, one that gives you the voltage and current measured by the battery Mar 25 23:53:18 if i leave it on now Mar 25 23:53:20 when i go to bed Mar 25 23:53:31 will the screen power down automatically? Mar 25 23:53:37 depends on your distro Mar 25 23:54:00 and your settings... Mar 25 23:54:20 thats the main thing i neeed to do Mar 25 23:54:25 so i can leave it charging Mar 25 23:54:36 always keep in mind: it's a freerunner, better to check twenty times, and then you might count on it to be reliable (for some perdiod :)) Mar 25 23:54:53 unless you run FSO Mar 25 23:54:57 if you keep it charging on the wallcharger it will (normally) never give you any problems Mar 25 23:55:00 SomeT: have u reflashed an updated image? Mar 25 23:55:01 apm will also tell me when the battery is full right? Mar 25 23:55:06 nah not uet Mar 25 23:55:13 i only just powered the thing up, haha Mar 25 23:55:17 (eg latest 2008.x etc.) or this is "as is out of the box" Mar 25 23:55:30 apm should - yes Mar 25 23:55:34 cool Mar 25 23:55:39 you willw ant to get a newer image onto it Mar 25 23:55:43 i dont know which distro version it is Mar 25 23:57:18 u will want something newer Mar 25 23:58:28 SomeT: I recommond you try a few distro right away :) Mar 25 23:58:42 i dont have time Mar 25 23:58:44 nearly bed time Mar 25 23:59:03 I mean try them before you start using what you have now as a real/daily phone Mar 25 23:59:36 ah ok cool Mar 25 23:59:37 will do Mar 25 23:59:39 you probably have a 2008.x version on it now, try the most recent one when you have time, also try SHR, qtopia... Mar 26 00:00:00 for now though ym main concern with the current distro is getting some sort of screensaverr so i can leave it charging Mar 26 00:00:55 ? Mar 26 00:01:43 tried pressing AUX button? Mar 26 00:01:52 on some distro's that locks the screen Mar 26 00:03:26 yes Mar 26 00:03:41 it has Mar 26 00:03:44 toggle fullscreen Mar 26 00:03:49 swap orientation Mar 26 00:03:52 and screenshot Mar 26 00:04:19 i'm sorry; i haven't tried a recent 2008.x in months Mar 26 00:04:34 will this still charge if i power it off? Mar 26 00:04:58 * mmontour consults the magic 8-ball Mar 26 00:05:02 :D Mar 26 00:05:05 Reply hazy - ask again later Mar 26 00:05:29 the magic eightball is a bit hard to shake for most of the girls i met (using shr-testing) Mar 26 00:05:51 but's it's very funny to them shake like lunatics :) Mar 26 00:05:52 (depends on how your distro programs the PMU on shutdown) Mar 26 00:07:38 does it take long to flash it onto a new distro? Mar 26 00:08:35 SomeT: depends on how big the distro is Mar 26 00:08:56 if you use linux: 15min? on windows: 40(+?)min Mar 26 00:09:01 You'll want to have a coffee or something while it's flashing the rootfs. It's only USB1.1 so large images do take a while Mar 26 00:09:08 just an estimate though Mar 26 00:10:23 where is it on the wiki Mar 26 00:10:28 which tells me how to flash Mar 26 00:10:40 i aint properly done it on a device like this in years Mar 26 00:10:56 keyword "dfu-util" should find something relevant Mar 26 00:11:20 SomeT: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Mar 26 00:12:22 if you use linux http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool is a simple but working GUI Mar 26 00:12:39 thanks a lot Mar 26 00:13:01 i just figured out how to lock and dim my screen on the default distro Mar 26 00:13:04 only problem now Mar 26 00:13:08 np we're here to help you :) Mar 26 00:13:08 i cant unlock it, lol Mar 26 00:13:19 how did you lock it and what do you see? Mar 26 00:13:29 i held down the power button Mar 26 00:13:36 and it bought me to a power management menu Mar 26 00:13:41 i just set it to dim then lock Mar 26 00:13:48 then it comes to a image Mar 26 00:13:56 with two padlocks Mar 26 00:13:59 one unlocked Mar 26 00:14:00 can't you slide something up/across the screen? Mar 26 00:14:02 and one locken Mar 26 00:14:15 thanks Mar 26 00:14:16 lol Mar 26 00:14:20 sorted Mar 26 00:14:24 :) Mar 26 00:14:47 i dont think ill be using this mobile to make calls right away, haha Mar 26 00:15:19 when the screen is dim Mar 26 00:15:28 it wont get screen burn right? Mar 26 00:18:12 ? Mar 26 00:18:42 Don't worry about screen burn Mar 26 00:20:03 yeah there much more real problems to worry about ;) Mar 26 00:20:07 haha Mar 26 00:20:19 im scared if i leave it on charging while i go sleep in a min Mar 26 00:20:28 i will awaken to find something horribly wrong, lol Mar 26 00:21:13 AFAIK only one Freerunner so far has actually emitted smoke while charging. Sleep well. Mar 26 00:21:35 hehe, yeah and we all saw the pics :) Mar 26 00:22:19 how did that happen? Mar 26 00:22:30 my charger is backwards anyway Mar 26 00:22:35 the wire comes out the wrong end Mar 26 00:22:42 ?? Mar 26 00:22:52 I never saw an answer to that, only a few guesses of what might have caused it Mar 26 00:22:52 its a uk plug adapter Mar 26 00:23:08 what was the room temp etc Mar 26 00:23:11 to many varibles Mar 26 00:23:58 i may need some help flashing in the next few days Mar 26 00:24:04 so u will see me in here again, be sure Mar 26 00:24:11 to be honest the wiki is useful Mar 26 00:24:12 np, you are welcome Mar 26 00:24:19 just troublesome to read in some respects Mar 26 00:24:32 don't start about that or you'll wake Chocks ;) Mar 26 00:25:10 SomeT: info about the smoke: http://n2.nabble.com/BrokenMoko-(burnt)-td2371031.html Mar 26 00:25:24 later in the thread there are more pictures, when werner analysed the problem Mar 26 00:26:12 thats scaring me, lol Mar 26 00:28:42 how do i tell if my plug is 220v? Mar 26 00:28:43 lol Mar 26 00:28:53 i have it plugged into an extension at the mo Mar 26 00:31:22 mmontour: there'll never be any analysis of cause. we can't reproduce so all is left is guessing Mar 26 00:32:37 my phone is no longer making sound now, lol Mar 26 00:32:42 dont know whats happened? Mar 26 00:33:12 when it was locked loads of white terminal writing refreshed on the screen Mar 26 00:33:14 whats going on? Mar 26 00:34:29 ??? Mar 26 00:34:30 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I guess so. At least if you try to reproduce it and fail to do so, you can rule out some of the theories Mar 26 00:34:58 Did OM test that guy's charger and find out that it was putting out the expected voltage? Mar 26 00:35:43 there's not one scenario we could test. Mar 26 00:36:32 mmontour: he hooked up to different chargers afaik Mar 26 00:36:38 why does my freerunner suddenly have no sound? Mar 26 00:36:47 it was making sound a moment ago when i pressed buttons? Mar 26 00:36:50 including a car adapter Mar 26 00:37:13 well pressed the screen rather Mar 26 00:38:05 is it just the default distro Mar 26 00:38:09 doing what it does best? Mar 26 00:38:11 haha Mar 26 00:38:24 which is messing up constantly of course Mar 26 00:38:40 suspend-resume? Mar 26 00:38:44 DocScrutinizer: well then I'll just keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't happen again Mar 26 00:38:52 suspen-resume??? Mar 26 00:39:27 no worries the sound as come back now, lol Mar 26 00:39:33 it keeps turning itself on and off Mar 26 00:39:35 how strange Mar 26 00:40:08 actually no its not Mar 26 00:40:10 argh, lol Mar 26 00:41:15 any ideas? Mar 26 00:41:57 SomeT: forget about it, go to sleep, and try a different distro tomorrow :) Mar 26 00:43:09 is it the distro then? Mar 26 00:43:27 is the deafult really that crap then Mar 26 00:44:26 anyway gotta go Mar 26 00:44:27 cya Mar 26 01:37:57 Wtf do I look like? NickServ? Mar 26 01:38:08 Why do people keep messaging me their passwords? Mar 26 01:42:46 Dave, must be like when girls throw their underwear on stage at concerts... or so I hear; I don't get out much. Mar 26 01:51:01 * Chocky laffs Mar 26 01:51:24 /msg dave hunter2 Mar 26 01:57:12 yeah Mar 26 01:57:48 Chocky, you might be amazed to know that around 50% of users' nickserv passwords are nothing more than a single profane word Mar 26 01:58:05 or at least based on the last several Pm's I accidentally received :p Mar 26 02:00:16 what FreeRunner GSM for Brazil? Mar 26 02:01:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r3b799c198219 10/ (12 files in 5 dirs): library: move example code into library and strip example Mar 26 02:10:43 damaestro, hungry? Mar 26 02:12:13 I'm hungry Mar 26 02:12:43 Dave, just about to have a mark twain (http://www.madgreens.com/) Mar 26 02:15:53 (add spinach, boiled egg and tomatoes) ;-) Mar 26 02:18:18 Dave, so it's a bow-tie pasta base, roasted red pepers, cucumbers, red onions, feta cheese, spinach, cherry tomatoes, sliced boiled eggs tossed with medium red wine vinaigrette ;-) Mar 26 02:18:49 Dave, a little more sophisticated then a sandwich tonight; but i did pick up a loaf of bread for PBnJs soon Mar 26 02:27:57 Is there a consensus on what the easiest way to do the moko11 upgrade is? Mar 26 02:28:12 use the SD card image Mar 26 02:28:20 real easy Mar 26 02:28:22 the SD-card method, unless it's for a gta01 Mar 26 02:28:47 Is there a wiki page explaining the SD-card method? Mar 26 02:29:07 yes Mar 26 02:29:12 somewhere ;-) Mar 26 02:29:25 last time I looked it was at the bottom of the "GSM/Flashing" page Mar 26 02:30:11 OK, I've seen that. The description is a bit cryptic, but I'll take the plunge. Thanks. Mar 26 02:35:21 Hi Ken :) Mar 26 02:35:29 Hi Dave. Mar 26 02:36:40 :D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 26 02:59:57 2009