**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 12 19:46:05 2009 Apr 12 19:46:57 new u-boot in nand running Apr 12 19:48:51 /usr/share/applications Apr 12 19:49:11 both old and new kernel backup are identical, looks ok... Apr 12 19:49:14 this is where all desktop icons are located? Apr 12 19:49:30 on shr? Apr 12 19:49:46 * eMBee will skip testing another rootfs backup... Apr 12 19:50:18 i have all these settings icons all over my desktop:( Apr 12 19:50:59 or maybe they are ust linked Apr 12 19:51:03 j Apr 12 19:53:25 Ah, damn. Again, I boot up my phone, choose my SD card from the boot menu... and after a minute qtopia has booted from the flash. I take the battery out, boot from my SD card again, fsck finds errors, reboots and I'm in Qtopia again. :D I should take the award for most injuries I've done to my hands while trying to boot my phone :D Apr 12 19:54:31 (Of course, the phone didn't boot at the end, because the battery ended before the fifth try :D ) Apr 12 19:55:07 hej hopp negersnopp Apr 12 19:55:34 blokkie_: never Apr 12 19:56:34 * eMBee can't wait to actually have some software on this thing... Apr 12 20:03:54 PaulFertser: how come ? Apr 12 20:04:58 blokkie_: ASU was a dead-end. Qtopia-on-x wasn't the solution. Apr 12 20:05:00 PaulFertser: looking at the mailinglist I've seen that somebody is working on the 2009 version Apr 12 20:05:28 PaulFertser: what can be expected then ? What is the other solution ? Apr 12 20:05:33 blokkie_: it bears no resemblance to om2008, completely different. Apr 12 20:06:07 blokkie_: om2009 will be OE + FSO + Paroli. You can try Paroli even now, either from unstable images Angus builds or install it manually on SHR. Apr 12 20:07:07 oh , I'll wait .. I've just bought the toy . I'll need to get used to it a bit more. But I'm happy people are working on a new om2009 version Apr 12 20:07:31 thx PaulFertser Apr 12 20:07:42 blokkie_: you're welcome. Apr 12 20:07:57 yay, new image booted Apr 12 20:08:25 who is Franky Van Liedekerke ? Apr 12 20:08:36 Coz I live 3 km from Liedekerke :) Apr 12 20:09:22 and you live in a Van ? Apr 12 20:09:41 van == from in duthc :) Apr 12 20:09:58 hahahaha Apr 12 20:10:13 dave has more injuries Apr 12 20:10:17 ( yes i know, i can't reain miyself to do stupid jokes ) Apr 12 20:10:27 :D Apr 12 20:10:33 dwaze Apr 12 20:10:55 ls Apr 12 20:11:15 ls: not found Apr 12 20:11:27 That's your nightmare! Apr 12 20:11:39 :D Apr 12 20:11:42 omfg Apr 12 20:11:44 rootkit? Apr 12 20:12:07 fdisk Apr 12 20:12:15 voila Apr 12 20:12:25 at least now I'm regged Apr 12 20:12:33 o.O Apr 12 20:12:38 hmm, that is not nice, the new image seems to not be able to recover from sleep mode Apr 12 20:13:03 eMBee: what image are you trying? Apr 12 20:13:11 dave u have shr? Apr 12 20:13:21 http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/releases/Om2008.12/ Apr 12 20:14:33 eMBee: bee-eep. Wrong. Apr 12 20:14:45 huh? Apr 12 20:14:52 /usr/share/applications shows some icons ,,yet the extra settings icons dont show there Apr 12 20:14:58 What you want? Apr 12 20:15:14 are they linked or something/ Apr 12 20:15:41 i want to remove all these extra settings icons from desktop Apr 12 20:15:53 8-9 of them Apr 12 20:16:08 PaulFertser: what's wrong? Apr 12 20:16:13 eMBee: om2008.x is dead Apr 12 20:16:18 eMBee: using it is wrong :) Apr 12 20:16:31 use shr Apr 12 20:16:36 well, it isstill listed as the latest official image on the wiki Apr 12 20:16:41 debian Apr 12 20:16:47 eMBee, even the wiki can't keep up Apr 12 20:16:59 with the speed om switches official images ;] Apr 12 20:17:08 heh Apr 12 20:17:11 i like om 2008.12 also Apr 12 20:17:14 eMBee: it's still latest "stable" "official" image, true. But it never made sense. Apr 12 20:17:20 you all use QI instead of u-boot ? Apr 12 20:17:25 no Apr 12 20:17:33 blokkie, I do. Apr 12 20:17:40 unless u dont want it to wake up Apr 12 20:17:58 TAsn: what is your biggest reason to use it instead of u-boot ? Apr 12 20:18:19 had qi unsuspending for a very shortr time Apr 12 20:18:20 blokkie, easy to configure Apr 12 20:18:38 and just tested it and was glad. Apr 12 20:18:55 furthermore the moko boots fast with it. Apr 12 20:18:57 night. Apr 12 20:19:04 *night* Apr 12 20:19:22 may depend on your device Apr 12 20:19:23 got to keep users guessing, eh? Apr 12 20:20:10 i know thats been the case for as long an i been around here Apr 12 20:22:04 all i know is that something is said then not very long afterwards it changes ,, kinda like the weather here Apr 12 20:23:10 PaulFertser:sowhich image do you recommend? Apr 12 20:23:12 Don't like the weather? Well, have a patience, wait for 15 minutes! Apr 12 20:23:30 eMBee: SHR seems to be what people are using around here Apr 12 20:23:34 eMBee: either the latest unstable OM2009 image (Paroli) or SHR. Apr 12 20:23:37 u guys need a set of judges since u dont want to have a dictator like Pat V. Apr 12 20:23:40 eMBee: or Debian. Apr 12 20:24:17 Hm, I think I got why my phone behaves like this. The charging is "fast_cccv" in Qtopia, and "pre" in Debian :/ Apr 12 20:24:51 maybe the kustomizer script if u wanna test since u have 2008.12 on currently Apr 12 20:24:54 eMBee: SHR seems to be best for using it as a phone: I found even things like shutting down didn't work on Debian Apr 12 20:25:18 it kept popping up a grid of buttons and then clicking on them didn't do anything Apr 12 20:25:24 bruce_c: hm, works for me. Worked all the time (except when i was using some old kernel). Apr 12 20:25:41 bruce_c: i mean shutting down via "shutdown -h now" Apr 12 20:25:55 bruce_c: shutdown works fine Apr 12 20:26:00 PaulFertser: shutting down via commandline worked. But who wants to launch a terminal just to shut down? Apr 12 20:26:04 halt? Apr 12 20:26:18 bruce_c: shutdown via o-p-p also works fine Apr 12 20:26:41 on SHR I just click the close button on Illume and it gives me the option of powering off. Nice and simple Apr 12 20:26:46 how unstable is paroli? Apr 12 20:26:48 Defiant-: o-p-p? Apr 12 20:26:56 bruce_c: openmoko-panel-plugin Apr 12 20:26:59 ah Apr 12 20:27:04 eMBee: can't say for sure. Not as mature as SHR certainly. Apr 12 20:27:17 eMBee: both are using FSO as middleware btw. Apr 12 20:27:23 eMBee: shr will include paroli when it's ready Apr 12 20:27:49 ok, so shr seems to be the preffered option then Apr 12 20:28:01 yup Apr 12 20:28:13 kinneh, who said that? Apr 12 20:28:42 TAsn: why not include Paroli? Apr 12 20:28:50 TAsn: I've read that on the shr somewhere, but dont shoot me I could be wrong Apr 12 20:28:54 03252008 works great an doesnt have all these damn settings icons all over the place Apr 12 20:29:01 PaulFertser, python is slow on the moko Apr 12 20:29:03 om2008.12 seems to hang when sleeping while connected to usb Apr 12 20:29:46 and I honestly, I don't see Ainulindale giving up on libframeworkphonegui anytime soon ;] Apr 12 20:30:16 04092009 shr unstable works ok though Apr 12 20:30:19 TAsn: paroli starts only once. And SHR have python installed anyway. I'm not talking about giving up anything. I'm about giving a choice. Apr 12 20:30:40 PaulFertser, oh, a choice. Apr 12 20:30:43 is fdom still active ? Apr 12 20:30:46 I'm talking about default. Apr 12 20:31:37 well, everything using the framework is actually fine with me. now for real, night... ;] Apr 12 20:33:44 when they do come out with the "next" os im ready Apr 12 20:34:06 09092009 Apr 12 20:34:50 random non liscence plate # Apr 12 20:35:09 *night* TAsn :) Apr 12 20:36:21 shouldn't that be 20090909 ? Apr 12 20:36:21 Hello, I'm having problems ssh-ing into my FR running Om 2008.12. I can ping it using 'ping -I usb0 192.168.0.202', but 'ssh root@192.168.0.202' (as described on wiki/USB_Networking) tells me "No route to host". I can't seem to find any help on the mailing list, and ssh's man page doesn't help me out either. Anyone have any ideas? Apr 12 20:36:23 ;D Apr 12 20:36:50 lstor: pastebin "route -n" output. Apr 12 20:37:04 lstor: and "ifconfig usb0" Apr 12 20:37:20 reboot atleast 1 time? Apr 12 20:37:42 slaxxer: "No route to host" Apr 12 20:37:46 PaulFertser: who is working on paroli ? Apr 12 20:37:54 blokkie: mirko-paroli :) Apr 12 20:38:03 only one person ? Apr 12 20:38:37 it looks like heavy usage of EFL , is rasterman helping ? Apr 12 20:38:42 blokkie: only one still sponsored by OM, not long ago i guess Charlie helped him. And he hopes community will help him. Apr 12 20:38:52 PaulFertser: http://rafb.net/p/7ZX5Rq54.html Apr 12 20:39:02 blokkie: raster helps everybody when he has time Apr 12 20:39:12 yeah Apr 12 20:39:56 lstor: conflicting network addresses. Both eth0 and usb0 are 192.168.0.0/24 Apr 12 20:40:34 lstor: route del -net 192.168.0.0 eth0 (or smth like that) should do the trick. Apr 12 20:41:15 lstor: sudo of course. Apr 12 20:44:37 PaulFertser: besides Paroli , you said it would run on EO + ??? Apr 12 20:44:58 * blokkie is just reading the paroli docs and hello world stuff Apr 12 20:45:12 PaulFertser: Hmm, I get 'SIOCDELRT: Invalid argument', even though the man page seems to confirm the syntax. From playing around with it a bit, it seems that the '-net' part is the offender Apr 12 20:45:50 -v doesn't give any additional information Apr 12 20:48:18 blokkie: OpenEmbedded, a bit gentoo-like system to build distributions. Apr 12 20:48:58 and what was the third ? Apr 12 20:49:26 PaulFertser: Never mind, got it Apr 12 20:49:31 PaulFertser: Just had to supply netmask too Apr 12 20:50:00 blokkie: FSO, freesmarphone.org Apr 12 20:50:07 PaulFertser: So, thanks :) Apr 12 20:50:12 lstor: got it working? Apr 12 20:50:34 PaulFertser: Yup :) Apr 12 20:51:12 lstor: i wonder why you have that extra route in the first place. Apr 12 20:51:12 which kernel would you guys recommend for 2008.12? hopefully stable and with working wifi Apr 12 20:52:13 PaulFertser: Probably left there after trying to get it all working. It took a while before I figured that I had to reboot the FR Apr 12 20:52:56 lstor: you could probably execute some relevant ifconfig command on FR itself without rebooting. Apr 12 20:54:39 it seems the build system is very linux-centric. Should I just give up and run it on linux, or is there an interest in getting in working on non-linux systems? Apr 12 20:54:50 badcloud: you don't have usb-network disconnection in 2008.12 when it go's into sleep mode ? Apr 12 20:55:09 I do Apr 12 20:55:13 bruce_c: ask mickey|bbq , i guess he'll be interested. Apr 12 20:55:20 incidently, wiki.openmoko.org is down Apr 12 20:55:24 badcloud: me too , I have now SHR Apr 12 20:55:39 I find SHR to be soooooooooooooo slow Apr 12 20:56:23 you use u-boot or QI ? Apr 12 20:56:43 qi, always Apr 12 20:57:07 I use u-boot Apr 12 20:57:41 anyone know any om 2008.12 image mirrors? Apr 12 20:57:43 slaxxer said the suspend does not work , can you confirm this ? Apr 12 20:57:51 why, blokkie? Apr 12 20:57:57 dunno Apr 12 20:58:07 slaxxer: I can but the images online if you want ? Apr 12 20:58:22 err badcloud :) Apr 12 20:58:47 I'm trying to download the 2008.12 jffs release file Apr 12 20:59:22 bytestore has a good image Apr 12 21:01:13 http://openmoko.spb.ru/download/file.php?id=13 Apr 12 21:01:23 well Apr 12 21:01:40 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Bytestore Apr 12 21:02:00 neither are responding Apr 12 21:02:08 build 2008.12 11012009 Apr 12 21:02:27 second 1 does Apr 12 21:03:52 neither for me... Apr 12 21:05:36 alrightythen Apr 12 21:06:23 thanks though Apr 12 21:12:21 k, got it Apr 12 21:12:23 thanks Apr 12 21:19:54 :] Apr 12 21:23:44 dave how do i remove unwantes settings icons from shr desktop? Apr 12 21:24:00 jow Apr 12 21:24:35 isn't this correct to accomplish kernel on nand and rootfs on mmc part2 ? Apr 12 21:24:37 setenv menu_9 Boot from nand rootfs on sd: setenv bootargs \${bootargs_base} rootfstype=ext2 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=5 \${mtdparts}\; nand read.e 0x32000000 kernel; bootm 0x32000000 Apr 12 21:28:48 :o Apr 12 21:32:31 kinneh: You can do that, why not. Apr 12 21:33:51 kinneh: don't forget about the trick to boot kernels >2M if you need it. Apr 12 21:57:17 how is android on the neo ? Apr 12 21:57:56 blokkie: doesn't know how to cope with bugs of calypso afaik Apr 12 21:58:38 what is calypso ? Apr 12 21:58:46 the problem was the ; after kernel wasn't escaped Apr 12 21:59:02 blokkie: the gsm chip Apr 12 22:00:29 so it would be "bold" to just even try androind on neo I guess Apr 12 22:00:42 blokkie: bold in what way? Apr 12 22:00:47 s/androind/android/ Apr 12 22:00:47 blokkie meant: so it would be "bold" to just even try android on neo I guess Apr 12 22:04:04 anyone see advantages in having a archlinux + paroli available ? Apr 12 22:04:23 *distro* Apr 12 22:04:43 * mwester is of the opinion that one of theproblem with the Om devices is _too many_ distros. Apr 12 22:05:18 * blokkie takes note of this statement :) Apr 12 22:05:20 * lindi- is of the opinion that upstream should produce software and distros should package it :) Apr 12 22:07:26 but if all of linux software "can" run on neo .. what does upstream still have to do ? Apr 12 22:07:47 blokkie: upstream just has to make their software easy to package Apr 12 22:08:00 A coherent user interface Apr 12 22:08:06 usable by fingers Apr 12 22:08:22 s/fingers/finger/ Apr 12 22:08:24 blokkie: we need to cope with the bugs of the gsm chip if we want reliable calls :) Apr 12 22:08:41 While you can run xfig on the phone, it probably won't really work well. Apr 12 22:08:57 And deal with the fluid, constantly-changing kernel API to manage the various bits of hardware. Apr 12 22:09:05 lindi-: you mean with upstream == kernel dev ? Apr 12 22:09:13 blokkie: for example Apr 12 22:09:50 who\how many kernel developers are working on the neo ? Apr 12 22:09:53 "Ah, it's 2.6.29-rc3 -- so use this sysfs node, unless the kernel is git id 98683098657893478967983478, then use this other sysfs node, and if its 2985798235789237985982958237 then no node work, so instead......." Apr 12 22:10:20 yuck :S Apr 12 22:10:21 mwester: i have a script to detect this on bootup ;) Apr 12 22:10:29 mwester: and cache the results Apr 12 22:10:30 lindi-: I have a better solution. Apr 12 22:10:42 mwester: yeah? Apr 12 22:10:59 lindi-: Now that Om no longer has any developers, we can take charge of the kernel, and do it correctly. Apr 12 22:11:12 A) make it work. Apr 12 22:11:17 B) test that it works. Apr 12 22:11:22 C) let the distros use it. Apr 12 22:11:50 D) consider changing the API if all distros require it, and if upstream requires it, and if one really wishes to bother pushing stuff upstream. Apr 12 22:12:19 mwester: how about offering a userland tool that'll hide changing kernel api? Apr 12 22:12:24 That's they way it should have been done to start with, but instead Andy went off all half-cocked on a raging ride to chase the upstream kernel. Apr 12 22:12:41 mwester: sysfs paths are pretty long to type to terminal anyway Apr 12 22:12:41 lindi-: Why? Apr 12 22:12:56 lindi-: that's wallpapering over a problem, what' the point? Apr 12 22:13:15 mwester: ok but it'd be useful for other purposes too Apr 12 22:13:21 lindi-: And the sysfs stuff is one example. Apr 12 22:13:23 mwester: now everyone is writing their own scripts Apr 12 22:13:27 Please don't assume that it's limited to sysfs. Apr 12 22:13:59 We've had joy and fun with rfkill as well, and we've played the fun game of "what shall we make a module today?" Apr 12 22:14:08 so no kernel developers anymore to hunt down / fix HW chip problems in the linux kernel for our precious neo ? Apr 12 22:14:34 We've enjoyed Andy leading on a trip down dumper lane to all do "Qi" for no reason at all, now it turns out... Apr 12 22:15:35 In short, Om has wasted the majority of their developers time, and screwed the community, just because somebody thought pushing code upstream was the measure of success. And now we see that instead, the measure of success would have been a phone that worked! Surprise! :D Apr 12 22:16:36 blokkie: There is one Om employee who works on the kernel. His stated goal is to push code upstream. We need to convince him that he should work to make the kernel function correctly as a priority, but I rather doubt that he will be convinced. Apr 12 22:18:24 is it that hard to make / fix a kernel when one has all the info about the hardware ? Apr 12 22:19:02 blokkie: we don't have all info actually. some is NDA'd. also it takes a lot of experience to do it Apr 12 22:19:08 It is when you spend all your time merging your partially-completed work with the latest alpha and beta test kernel code. Apr 12 22:19:17 I would think it should be dificult to make something for a black-box. But this is not the caseere Apr 12 22:19:32 lindi-: I understand that completely Apr 12 22:19:38 If Om had just stuck with the 2.6.26 kernel, it would have been done a long time ago. Apr 12 22:21:38 Sigh - we _almost_ had everything working on 2.6.24 -- some glamo suspend/resume problems, and the wifi chip was a problem.... but Andy refused to work on the final glamo issues, instead claiming that 2.6.28 would have better support for it -- and in the end, he never did fix it, it was someone from the community who found the problem -- and discovered that it had nothgin to do with 26/28 at all. That was just all just a smoke-screen beca Apr 12 22:21:38 use Andy had orders to work on GTA03 code in 2.6.28 kernels. Apr 12 22:21:56 I've worked 2 years for a company that build Satelite modems based on RedHat . The stuff was still running 2.2.19 when 2.4.19 was allready out. But they stayed with it and developed on it further. Not moving to the newer one. But that limited them implementing new stuff. So .. mwester you've got a very good point I think (NOTE: they went bankrupt - ) Apr 12 22:23:07 GTA03 == new NEO ? Apr 12 22:23:13 Yes, there's a risk if you fall too far behind. But there's a huge difference between falling behind a few dot-dot versions, versus falling behind a couple of major versions. Apr 12 22:23:15 new chip .. ? Apr 12 22:23:38 gta03 WAS the new hardware; it got cancelled. Apr 12 22:23:55 So all the kernel-chasing, and the work on Qi turned out to be for nothing. Apr 12 22:25:50 mwester: but wasn't the wifi stack rewrite something that we needed anyway? Apr 12 22:26:36 debatable. Apr 12 22:26:53 It worked, poorly, on 2.6.26. Apr 12 22:26:58 But it did work. Apr 12 22:27:11 mwester: at least bug fixing a different sdio stack than mainline does not sound very useful Apr 12 22:27:38 And given the choice of where we are right now (everything works, but works poorly) vs the alternative of everything except wifi working very well, I think I would rather have everything but wifi. Apr 12 22:27:51 lindi-: Wrong thinking! Apr 12 22:28:06 lindi-: bug fixing the old sdio stack would have been useful to the community. Apr 12 22:28:35 mwester: but more people would have been bug fixing the new sdio stack since it has more users? Apr 12 22:28:36 Is the goal to put a driver for an obsolete product upstream, or is the goal to make the product work, while it is still a viable saleable product? Apr 12 22:28:53 lindi-: I don't think any bugfixes to the sdio stack were done by anyone but Om. Apr 12 22:29:29 now those bug fixes at least can help somebody :-) Apr 12 22:29:32 AFAIK, the interface for the wlan chip is unique. Apr 12 22:30:03 I don't think they'll help anyone except those who have an AR6000 on a glamo. Know anyone doing that? Apr 12 22:30:20 isn't the problem that the kernel is changing too quickly for external code to keep up, whether closed or open? Apr 12 22:30:33 bruce_c is exactly correct. Apr 12 22:31:11 The only viable strategy is to either use hardware that is already in mainline, or to get the hardware working in whatever is the current release and catch up later. Apr 12 22:32:09 You cannot split development efforts for such a small company into bug-fixing, hardware bug chasing, and tracking -rc version of upstream kernels. There was no way Andy could be successful -- it is a credit to his skill that he did as well as he did. Apr 12 22:32:42 (even though I didnt' get along with Andy, there's no doubt about his skill; the issue is really Om's management) Apr 12 22:34:12 Hello Apr 12 22:34:23 Anyone running a recent-ish build on gta01? Apr 12 22:34:41 A ghost from the past! Apr 12 22:34:58 :-) Apr 12 22:35:04 Hey mwester! Apr 12 22:35:13 I just updated my 01 for the first time in ages Apr 12 22:35:18 * shellevil vaguely remembers wurp2 Apr 12 22:35:21 And I bet didn't work. Apr 12 22:35:23 (updated it at the request of Julian) Apr 12 22:35:35 mwester: right :-( Apr 12 22:35:50 I can revert, but I would much prefer to find a recent version that does work Apr 12 22:35:56 shellevil: Hi :-) Apr 12 22:36:08 mwester: How have you been? Apr 12 22:36:11 Yeah, nobody has worked on the gta01 recently. SHR is looking good, but Ainulindale took a break, and I got busy, and that's about all there is left of the gta01 developers Apr 12 22:36:19 yeah Apr 12 22:36:43 OK, I will back off to an earlier version Apr 12 22:36:52 I still have the debug board on mine, and have been meaning to find out what's left in terms of the bugs in the latest kernel... Apr 12 22:37:04 but it seems pointless when the old kernel works so well on it.:) Apr 12 22:37:17 ah, do you happen to know what kernel you're using? Apr 12 22:37:30 And if it should be expected to work with the latest rootfs from SHR? Apr 12 22:37:53 (which goes back to the original discussion lindi- and I were having, about kernel APIs changing -- which is why people are wanting to upgrade the gta01 kernel, I suspect) Apr 12 22:38:05 wurp2: Not so great - mum died, and all the emotional and paperwork shit following on from that. But... Apr 12 22:38:05 With the Apr 1 build of 2.6.28, I hang at "Starting kernel..." Apr 12 22:38:19 shellevil: Oh fuck. I'm very very sorry to hear that Apr 12 22:38:23 * shellevil needs to put something moderately recent on my GTA01. Apr 12 22:38:25 I'm not using any kernel on the gta01 right now; it's been powered off for months. Apr 12 22:38:32 mwester: O Apr 12 22:38:34 damn Apr 12 22:38:35 ATM I've got a scaredycat image on it. Apr 12 22:38:39 wurp2: thanks Apr 12 22:39:03 shellevil: Yeah, I used scaredycat exclusively before SHR Apr 12 22:39:19 I'll take a look at the kernel this week, I'm sort of being forced to get back to it anyway) Apr 12 22:39:27 shellevil: Do you know what kernel? If it's at all recent, that is. Apr 12 22:39:37 Very not. Apr 12 22:39:41 most of a year old Apr 12 22:39:46 mwester: OK, I'll back off a revision & see how that looks Apr 12 22:40:05 shellevil: Ah, OK, I have a working set for a scaredycat build that old Apr 12 22:40:11 but that's not my first choice :-) Apr 12 22:40:38 mwester: I know it's a stupid question, but do you know offhand what's the last message the kernel starting kicks out? Apr 12 22:40:40 anyway, back in a bit... good to see you back. Apr 12 22:40:50 So I can know when I'm past kernel issues and into rootfs Apr 12 22:40:58 mwester: Thanks - I'm not sure how 'back' I am Apr 12 22:41:08 but I'm at least upgrading to the new image ;-) Apr 12 22:41:11 At the moment, my neo SIM is in one of these: http://www.emporialife.co.uk/ - I needed a phone that 'jyust worked' Apr 12 22:41:23 (don't know the last message, but you should be able to see the first message from init: would be something involving "init" and then it should launch "udev" Apr 12 22:41:25 shellevil: I understand that Apr 12 22:41:25 ) Apr 12 22:41:40 mwester: thanks again! Apr 12 22:42:56 I'd really like that to be my neo - even with poor battery life - with web-browser and call functionality at minimum - but... Apr 12 22:43:40 I've been spending the last weeks largely clearing up the garden. Today I chipped about 150Kg of branches - and that's 1/10th of it. Apr 12 22:44:42 shellevil: That's funny - we've been doing the same thing lately Apr 12 22:44:53 And my workroom looks like http://www.mauve.plus.com/bedroom-wall.jpg Apr 12 22:44:55 Cleaning out the side yard in preparation for selling our house Apr 12 22:45:09 not selling in the forseeable future Apr 12 22:45:29 shellevil: :-( Apr 12 22:45:38 re: you're workroom, not re: selling Apr 12 22:45:43 * shellevil is reinsulating the house. Apr 12 22:46:00 It's currently 50cm stone walls, 5cm air-gap, plasterboard. Apr 12 22:46:14 You can probably improve on that ;-) Apr 12 22:46:18 yeah. Apr 12 22:46:32 8cm or so of good fibreglass. And maybe 15 under the floor Apr 12 22:46:57 But it's a big job - though it pays back fast - given the stupid energy prices Apr 12 22:47:31 shellevil: Your garden is fantastic! Apr 12 22:47:44 mwester: how come an employee can chose what he wants to work on ? Apr 12 22:48:03 blokkie: I think he's out for a big Apr 12 22:48:08 wurp2: Trying to keep it that way is going to be fun - not knowing much about plants. Apr 12 22:48:24 I'm good at php , though I'm paid to be a websphere admin. My paying customer (boss) does not let me code on php Apr 12 22:48:33 s/big/bit/ Apr 12 22:48:33 wurp2 meant: blokkie: I think he's out for a bit Apr 12 22:48:49 WURP! Apr 12 22:48:54 wurp2: thx , I have screen on, so I'll read his comment when he's back Apr 12 22:48:54 DAVE! Apr 12 22:49:17 Random hardware of the day Apr 12 22:49:33 My wife is asking me to go fix the toilet... Apr 12 22:49:47 I'll probably have to go after I test this new kernel image Apr 12 22:50:14 :P Apr 12 22:50:17 http://bifferos.bizhat.com/ Apr 12 22:50:22 aw Apr 12 22:51:05 shellevil: Yeah, I think microcomps are coming of age Apr 12 22:51:08 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r0d158bbad410 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/device.py: Apr 12 22:51:08 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Send out o.f.GSM.Network.Status after resume Apr 12 22:51:08 freesmartphone.org: When we resume we now immediately query the network status and send a Apr 12 22:51:08 freesmartphone.org: Signal. This fixes FSO #248. Apr 12 22:51:13 There seem to be a lot of nice options out there now Apr 12 22:51:54 So, everyone bought my iphone app, right? Apr 12 22:52:19 Buy me an iphone, I'll buy your app. Apr 12 22:52:42 Did I hear something about gardening? :) Apr 12 22:52:49 wurp2, fuck that :P Apr 12 22:53:20 shellevil: That doesn't sound like a good trade Apr 12 22:53:42 Well, the new kernel boots, but now it looks as if I have a bootarg issue Apr 12 22:53:50 bbiab Apr 12 23:16:05 Hi there! I am wondering if you quit Runescape and still have your account? If so, please PM me. I am in desperate need of one! Thanks. Apr 12 23:16:06 Hi there! I am wondering if you quit Runescape and still have your account? If so, please PM me. I am in desperate need of one! Thanks. Apr 12 23:16:08 Hi there! I am wondering if you quit Runescape and still have your account? If so, please PM me. I am in desperate need of one! Thanks. Apr 12 23:16:24 hahaha Apr 12 23:19:35 * Chocky laughs also Apr 12 23:21:15 LOL Apr 12 23:21:28 I guess I do have an account .. LOL Apr 12 23:21:40 I LOL. LOL. Apr 12 23:21:59 the retard left the server Apr 12 23:23:23 :p Apr 12 23:23:28 "left" ... yeah Apr 12 23:23:38 * Dave shines his boot Apr 12 23:26:25 is that the one we see when your FR starts up? Apr 12 23:26:34 Hi there! I am wondering if you have a million dollars that you don't need? If so, please PM me, I am in desperate need of it. Thanks. Apr 12 23:26:40 * mwester wonders if this really works. Apr 12 23:26:49 * mwester waits for his money. :) Apr 12 23:26:49 mwester: this is not Craigslist, ktb Apr 12 23:27:00 hehe! Apr 12 23:27:25 Does anyone have the output of printenv from a gta01 handy :-/ Apr 12 23:27:25 Hey, did raster ever 'fess up as to who thought the silly boots were a good splash screen? Apr 12 23:27:47 mwester: I thought that was his idea Apr 12 23:28:05 That might explain why he's never admitted to it... :) Apr 12 23:28:05 it's stoopit. Apr 12 23:29:02 :-) Apr 12 23:29:09 * Dave wonders if mwester is a banking specialist from nigeria Apr 12 23:29:10 So... where would be a good place to look for low-cost solar cells/panels for a project? Apr 12 23:29:52 What's the minimum watts/m^2? Apr 12 23:30:15 (assuming direct sunlight, of course) Apr 12 23:30:50 At a minimum a Freerunner and an n800, but I'd really like to have enough to keep a small laptop running for at least 8 hours out of day. I estimate 40W would be ideal. Apr 12 23:31:04 I mean, corroded copper is a solar cell if you can tolerate extremely low wattage :-) Apr 12 23:31:12 area is of less concern, as it's not really all that portable. Apr 12 23:31:30 Isn't 40W at least 200 m^2? Apr 12 23:31:46 Yes, but copper is rather expensive. We have people that are tearing the copper plumbing out of houses as they are being built. Apr 12 23:32:07 200 m^2 for 40W ? Wow, that's rather inefficient Apr 12 23:32:22 mwester: Yeah, I just wasn't sure if you wanted to play with it or use it for real power Apr 12 23:32:29 is it a common problem with tangogps not downloading tiles, often, keeping them white until you pan or zoom some more? Apr 12 23:32:38 * mwester calculates the square footage available on his roof. Apr 12 23:32:42 I thought 1 w / m^2 was the typical estimate for the power of bright sunlight Apr 12 23:32:58 and 20% the max expected efficiency of reasonable costing solar cells Apr 12 23:33:00 * mwester goes off to google, this project may not be so practical. Apr 12 23:34:05 b0ef: yeah, I always have to refresh Apr 12 23:34:14 of course, I'm 6 months out of date Apr 12 23:34:19 wikipedia claims a 12% efficient cell can do 1.2 W per 0.01 m^2 Apr 12 23:34:22 it might be that it's supposed to work now Apr 12 23:34:34 holy shit Apr 12 23:34:46 I was WAY off in my recollection of W/m^2 Apr 12 23:35:08 Thank goodness! Apr 12 23:35:09 :) Apr 12 23:35:30