**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 29 02:59:56 2009
Jun 29 04:23:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re20a94ca52ea 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/ (Makefile.am common.vala dbus.vala fsoframework-2.0.vapi): 
Jun 29 04:23:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: fsoframework: dbus: add DBusServiceNotifier class. This class will
Jun 29 04:23:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: call a delegate whenever a service a client is interested in is
Jun 29 04:23:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: appearing on or disappearing from the dbus.
Jun 29 04:42:59 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rfd92a875dd2b 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/ (common.vala dbus.vala fsoframework-2.0.vapi subsystem.vala): fsoframework: inject proper dbus constants into namespace as preparation before the patch will appear upstream
Jun 29 06:55:58 <__Jan> hi there... i have a problem with my freerunner. i updated it to om2009 as described in the wiki. it boots but paroli doesn't start: http://www.pastebin.ca/1478077
Jun 29 06:56:16 <__Jan> i found this http://www.hentges.net/irclogs/%23openmoko/2009/May/20090508_openmoko.log but it doesn't help me either...
Jun 29 06:56:58 <__Jan> the indentation errors seem to have beedn fixe
Jun 29 07:15:07 <Heinervdm> __Jan: run paroli from commandline to see the error messages
Jun 29 07:26:36 <__Jan> root@om-gta02:~# paroli
Jun 29 07:26:40 <__Jan> Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 29 07:26:44 <__Jan>   File "/usr/bin/paroli", line 33, in <module>
Jun 29 07:26:48 <__Jan>     from optparse import OptionParser
Jun 29 07:26:48 <__Jan>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/optparse.py", line 77, in <module>
Jun 29 07:26:48 <__Jan>     from gettext import gettext
Jun 29 07:26:48 <__Jan>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/gettext.py", line 49, in <module>
Jun 29 07:26:48 <__Jan>     import locale, copy, os, re, struct, sys
Jun 29 07:26:48 <__Jan> ValueError: bad marshal data
Jun 29 07:26:55 <PaulFertser> __Jan: pastebin next time please!
Jun 29 07:27:18 * lindi- 's eyes hurt to see X programs run as root :(
Jun 29 07:27:19 <__Jan> yes sorry, remembered it as i pressed return... :)
Jun 29 07:27:44 <__Jan> lindi-: which user should i take with freerunner? ;)
Jun 29 07:28:26 <lindi-> __Jan: "jan"?
Jun 29 07:29:16 <__Jan> i don't have such a user on it (yet). thought it would be "standard" to run everything as root on the device...
Jun 29 07:29:34 <__Jan> but as you said, i would never run x programs as root on my pc :)
Jun 29 07:30:18 <lindi-> __Jan: yes om distros do it, but it's still bad :(
Jun 29 07:30:44 <lindi-> __Jan: on debian I user my normal user, that has helped me avoid some mistakes
Jun 29 07:31:47 <__Jan> hmm this still doesn't help me with my problem
Jun 29 07:33:51 <lindi-> __Jan: 1) python 2) from optparse import OptionParser
Jun 29 07:40:57 <__Jan> .... i love it. reflashed with the same rootfs image and it works out of the box.
Jun 29 07:46:24 <__Jan> thank you anyway for your time :)
Jun 29 08:52:27 <PBeck> ahoi
Jun 29 08:53:52 <spydon> hoi
Jun 29 08:54:08 <spydon> how long time does it take to install koolu beta 7?
Jun 29 08:54:59 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5243 10/trunk/gta02-core/gps.sch: Finish GPS schematic
Jun 29 09:00:36 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5244 10/trunk/gta02-core/gps.sch: Missing inductor annotation
Jun 29 09:04:40 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5245 10/trunk/gta02-core/gps.sch: Missing caps annotation
Jun 29 09:12:33 <spydon> how shall I format my sd card to work withh android
Jun 29 09:14:25 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5246 10/trunk/gta02-core/gps.sch: RF trace impedance notes
Jun 29 09:14:34 <PaulFertser> spydon: i'd say use a shredder. 
Jun 29 09:14:45 <spydon> shredder?
Jun 29 09:15:16 <PaulFertser> spydon: yeah, no use in sd card with android anyway
Jun 29 09:18:57 <spydon> But then I can't save anything?
Jun 29 09:19:06 <spydon> like pictures and stuff
Jun 29 09:19:38 <fredrin_> spydon: i think(tm) that you must install it on NAND and have a sd card formated the Right(tm) way
Jun 29 09:19:55 <fredrin_> android asumes that you got a sdcard to store stuff
Jun 29 09:20:31 <PaulFertser> fredrin_: and after that don't ask me why Qi stopped booting normal distros!
Jun 29 09:26:03 <fredrin_> PaulFertser: uuups :) did not know that
Jun 29 09:27:34 <spydon> yeah I got it on nand but how is the rigth way to format it :P
Jun 29 09:27:39 <spydon> fredrin, 
Jun 29 09:28:29 <PaulFertser> fredrin: also don't ask me why android developers forked the kernel instead of working with upstream (OM kernel devs).
Jun 29 09:28:55 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: why? 8)
Jun 29 09:29:28 <fredrin> hmmm
Jun 29 09:31:19 <fredrin> PaulFertser: but if they use git it's not so big problem, since it's distributed
Jun 29 09:31:36 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: because their bosses care about their money more than about fellow developers, and android developers don't want to do anything about it, i guess.
Jun 29 09:31:40 <PaulFertser> fredrin: it is
Jun 29 09:32:01 <PaulFertser> fredrin: they use git, but it doesn't help. Forking is rarely a good way to collaborate.
Jun 29 09:32:29 <fredrin> that's just how the System(tm) works, i guess, 
Jun 29 09:33:07 <PaulFertser> fredrin: no, that's just how "open source" works, fuck it. Stay away from Android, it's "open source" and therefore sucks.
Jun 29 09:33:14 <fredrin> but what i don't understand is why they use so reasources to get Android going on the Neo, when you got better hardware for it 
Jun 29 09:33:54 <fredrin> more android hardware/design whatever
Jun 29 09:34:22 * fredrin gets a cup of coffe
Jun 29 09:34:50 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: do you mean a google devs or koolu ones?
Jun 29 09:35:15 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: koolu. As their kernel devs might be of help to the OM community.
Jun 29 09:35:52 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: hm. google sucks too
Jun 29 09:35:57 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: no doubt
Jun 29 09:36:20 <PaulFertser> "Android is cool because we have android market". Screw them.
Jun 29 09:37:07 * md2k7 googled koolu and found "Unlocked A7 Freerunner with Google Android"
Jun 29 09:37:14 <md2k7> oO
Jun 29 09:37:21 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: I've managed to compile adb tool for powerpc enabled linux... That was hard work... dancing with tambourine
Jun 29 09:37:23 <max_posedon> )) marketing
Jun 29 09:37:49 <fredrin> the cool thing about the Neo now, is that almost nobody got it and it's hard to get, and there is nothing like it, i makes me feel unique 
Jun 29 09:37:53 <fredrin> :D
Jun 29 09:38:04 <PaulFertser> fredrin: hard to get FR?
Jun 29 09:38:15 <fredrin> yes
Jun 29 09:38:22 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: anal slaves of google and apple conquering the universe? 8)
Jun 29 09:38:50 <fredrin> in norway you just cant go to the nearest cellphone shop and buy it, you must make an effort, import it
Jun 29 09:39:08 <md2k7> when Skype runs on Android, can it somehow be brought to, like, SHR?
Jun 29 09:39:18 <PaulFertser> fredrin: heh, it's nothing compared to what efforts were needed to get FR in russia ;)
Jun 29 09:39:21 <Ainulindale> Not directly md2k7 
Jun 29 09:39:29 <md2k7> Ainulindale: why not?
Jun 29 09:39:33 <PaulFertser> md2k7: why bother?
Jun 29 09:39:35 <Ainulindale> But it should be packageable easily right now
Jun 29 09:39:45 <PaulFertser> md2k7: do you want to run crap on your device?
Jun 29 09:40:03 <md2k7> PaulFertser: because I like Skype for example? because it's cheaper or free to use at home with wireless lan?
Jun 29 09:40:08 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: one shouldn't ask why the user wants to do something :-)
Jun 29 09:40:11 <PaulFertser> md2k7: SIP
Jun 29 09:40:24 <md2k7> PaulFertser: I know it's not "compatible" with the open source definition :P
Jun 29 09:40:32 <md2k7> PaulFertser: I like it anyway
Jun 29 09:40:34 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: i would strongly oppose to _any_ proprietary stuff in SHR except gllin.
Jun 29 09:40:55 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: even in some kind of non-free repos. 
Jun 29 09:41:18 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: i'd be sad to see SHR devs putting _any_ effort in making proprietary crap run. It'd be a waste of time imho.
Jun 29 09:41:23 <PaulFertser> Even if users want it.
Jun 29 09:41:30 <fredrin> PaulFertser: freetard :P I would like to have everything on my Neo
Jun 29 09:41:30 <md2k7> PaulFertser: then tell me how to call someone on Skype via SIP
Jun 29 09:41:34 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: well I wouldn't run it myself
Jun 29 09:41:43 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: But I can understand why someone would like to use it
Jun 29 09:41:46 <Ainulindale> And anyways
Jun 29 09:41:51 <Ainulindale> "Proprietary" is relative
Jun 29 09:41:56 <Ainulindale> One may ask if mplayer is for instance
Jun 29 09:42:00 <Ainulindale> (see debian policies)
Jun 29 09:42:16 <Ainulindale> As for myself I tend to listen to what the user wants
Jun 29 09:42:16 <PaulFertser> md2k7: just don't call someone on Skype, easy as that.
Jun 29 09:42:25 <Ainulindale> If there is a huge demand for skype, why not?
Jun 29 09:42:39 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: how is mplayer proprietary?
Jun 29 09:42:51 <md2k7> PaulFertser: and what if everyone surrounding me is using Skype then?
Jun 29 09:42:53 <Ainulindale> The license is weird PaulFertser 
Jun 29 09:42:59 <fredrin> it's more anoying that the gsm firmware is not open, that would have made the Neo even more unique, GSM hacking is the in the wind now, heh
Jun 29 09:43:02 <Ainulindale> Or wass when I looked at it
Jun 29 09:43:04 <Ainulindale> -s
Jun 29 09:43:04 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: because instead of solving the problem (convince users to use SIP) it adds to it.
Jun 29 09:43:20 <PaulFertser> md2k7: then don't talk to them with VoIP.
Jun 29 09:43:35 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: don't worry I agree with you on the basis
Jun 29 09:44:12 <Ainulindale> Although I disagree with you on the fact that whether a software is proprietary or not, if it fulfills a need there's no alternative for, I can't understand why one shouldn't use it
Jun 29 09:44:16 <fredrin> PaulFertser: bah, easier to be pragmatic in life 
Jun 29 09:44:20 * md2k7 was always wondering why some people HATE proprietary software to the point that they don't want it to be compatible with open-source stuff
Jun 29 09:44:32 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: there's an alternative to skype and it's SIP-clients.
Jun 29 09:44:36 <PaulFertser> fredrin: easier
Jun 29 09:44:42 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: Yeah the question is : are they as well integrated?
Jun 29 09:44:44 <md2k7> that's kind of like Microsoft creating a new office file format for new incompatibility
Jun 29 09:44:49 <Ainulindale> As told before, I don't personally care :-)
Jun 29 09:45:03 <PaulFertser> fredrin: sometimes it's easier to steal something or to kill someone you know
Jun 29 09:45:07 <fredrin> PaulFertser: like, have the cake and eat it too :D
Jun 29 09:45:32 <PaulFertser> md2k7: i don't say that free software shouldn't be compatible with skype. Where's the protocol spec?
Jun 29 09:46:01 <fredrin> PaulFertser: I know, kill people tend to always create more problems later though, even if it looks like a good alternative in one moment 
Jun 29 09:46:06 <fredrin> :) 
Jun 29 09:46:21 <PaulFertser> fredrin: not always.
Jun 29 09:46:50 <fredrin> poor people in africa is easy to kill, but they dont do much either way for me. 
Jun 29 09:47:02 * fredrin is not a racist 
Jun 29 09:48:04 <md2k7> PaulFertser: obviously they want to keep their market share :)
Jun 29 09:49:04 * fredrin wants to have a wifiblutoothgsm iPhone/android exploit hack that instantly bricks those phones, then the Neo owns the world 
Jun 29 09:49:06 <md2k7> I wonder why noone has reverse-engineered it yet
Jun 29 09:49:26 <PaulFertser> md2k7: if someone tells me he's using skype i say eww and that i willn't use it no matter what. 
Jun 29 09:49:52 <fredrin> PaulFertser: even if it's it a pretty girl with webcam? 
Jun 29 09:50:11 <md2k7> PaulFertser: no use arguing our personal point of view then :P
Jun 29 09:50:39 <PaulFertser> fredrin: Yes, for sure.
Jun 29 09:52:39 <PaulFertser> fredrin: if the girl is too stupid to install jabber or sip client, i'm not interested in her. And if she doesn't want it means she's not interested in me. Simple as that.
Jun 29 09:53:29 <fredrin> buuuuuueno
Jun 29 09:56:06 <md2k7> "Skype can utilise other users' bandwidth." - wow, I didn't know that one.
Jun 29 09:56:14 <fredrin> p2p
Jun 29 09:56:31 <fredrin> it's the guys behind kazaa 
Jun 29 09:56:38 * md2k7 guesses he's not the only one who never read the EULA...
Jun 29 09:57:08 <md2k7> well I knew communication went directly between users, but that you are relaying other people's traffic...
Jun 29 09:57:16 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: my wife definitely can't install jabber and sip. 8)))
Jun 29 09:57:25 <fredrin> they're smart guys the Skype people
Jun 29 09:57:37 <fredrin> even fooled eBay, lol 
Jun 29 09:58:36 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: what does she do?
Jun 29 09:59:42 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: nothing. sitting at home, making me working harder! 8)
Jun 29 10:00:54 <Q-Master> boost sux
Jun 29 10:01:08 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: sitting at home doing nothing?
Jun 29 10:02:01 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: not exactly, she's doing all the needed wife
Jun 29 10:02:04 <Q-Master> 's work
Jun 29 10:02:07 <Q-Master> crap
Jun 29 10:02:13 <Q-Master> keyboards suxx to
Jun 29 10:02:14 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: oh man, you're a sexist
Jun 29 10:02:15 <Q-Master> o
Jun 29 10:02:52 <Q-Master> 8)
Jun 29 10:05:05 <SpeedEvil> If both parties are happy, what's the issue.
Jun 29 10:05:22 * SpeedEvil feels much the same about windows users.
Jun 29 10:07:00 <Q-Master> fun
Jun 29 10:07:17 <Q-Master> swap can't be on fat partition
Jun 29 10:08:24 * SpeedEvil was sure he's done that before
Jun 29 10:10:31 <SpeedEvil> worksforme
Jun 29 10:10:37 <md2k7> Q-Master: what about swap files then?
Jun 29 10:10:42 <SpeedEvil> swap on file on vfat
Jun 29 10:10:46 <md2k7> yep
Jun 29 10:10:54 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: it makes me sad when people who can make a lot of good just "sit at home doing housekeeping duties" instead. Looks like some kind of consensual slavery :-/
Jun 29 10:11:23 <md2k7> PaulFertser: someone has to do the housekeeping duties :/
Jun 29 10:11:41 <PaulFertser> md2k7: take turns
Jun 29 10:11:53 <md2k7> PaulFertser: should already be the robots doing it, but somehow all the money goes into war bots atm
Jun 29 10:11:55 <SpeedEvil> md2k7: That's what your open-source phone, and a USB neural implanted monkey is for.
Jun 29 10:11:58 <Q-Master> SpeedEvil: but not for me. adding swap to ext3 and everything works ok, but on vfat - nop
Jun 29 10:12:10 <md2k7> neural implanted monkey, sounds good
Jun 29 10:12:11 <SpeedEvil> Q-Master: All I did was
Jun 29 10:12:42 <md2k7> SpeedEvil: how much is that monkey then? I guess you can't just go out and buy one
Jun 29 10:12:44 * fredrin is a sexist too 
Jun 29 10:13:10 <SpeedEvil> mkdosfs /dev/foo;mount /dev/foo /mnt;dd if=/dev/zero of=temp bs=1024 count=1024000;mkswap /mnt/tmp;swapon /mnt/temp
Jun 29 10:13:15 <SpeedEvil> and it worked
Jun 29 10:13:59 <fredrin> there are nonfeminist women that even like to make food and do house stuff, and even enjoys sex :) 
Jun 29 10:15:26 <PaulFertser> fredrin: they might have their real intentions hidden deep inside the subconscious by the sexist parents or environment.
Jun 29 10:15:27 <fredrin> md2k7: high five *borat* voice 
Jun 29 10:16:01 <SpeedEvil> Also - not working for reward doesn't mean not doing stuff. She could be hacking on the kernel.
Jun 29 10:16:56 <PaulFertser> Hacking on the kernel is rarely called "housekeeping".
Jun 29 10:17:01 <Q-Master> SpeedEvil: doesn't for me, but making swap on another ext3 partition works very well
Jun 29 10:17:12 * SpeedEvil ponders.
Jun 29 10:17:20 <SpeedEvil> What error messages do you get?
Jun 29 10:17:45 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5247 10/trunk/gta02-core/cpu.sch: add spi
Jun 29 10:17:47 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: she's making me happy. she really likes it.
Jun 29 10:17:48 <SpeedEvil> Q-Master: this is vfat?
Jun 29 10:18:36 <Q-Master> SpeedEvil: none. just swapon locks and in some minutes i catch a kernel panic
Jun 29 10:18:36 <fredrin> Q-Master: :) 
Jun 29 10:18:42 <Q-Master> SpeedEvil: yep. vfat
Jun 29 10:19:14 <PaulFertser> All girls i talked to recently (except freshman students) can install gentoo.
Jun 29 10:19:38 <SpeedEvil> Q-Master: Odd. 2.6.30 here
Jun 29 10:19:47 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Jun 29 10:19:56 * SpeedEvil tries it on a mtd device.
Jun 29 10:20:26 <Q-Master> SpeedEvil: Linux om-gta02 2.6.29-rc3 #1 PREEMPT Wed Jun 24 08:12:12 CEST 2009 armv4tl unknown
Jun 29 10:21:14 <SpeedEvil> this on the SD, or on the nand?
Jun 29 10:21:24 <SpeedEvil> and x86 ATM
Jun 29 10:21:30 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: hehe.... mine is from the village. She saw the computer first time at mines...
Jun 29 10:21:30 <Q-Master> -s
Jun 29 10:21:40 <Q-Master> SpeedEvil: uSD, and ARM
Jun 29 10:22:18 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: having a kernel panic message can probably help
Jun 29 10:22:52 <Q-Master> PaulFertser: it is something about timeout in kernel module
Jun 29 10:23:17 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * rc275c26b5557 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_messages_fso.py: opimd: SIM-Messages-FSO: handle incoming split messages and indicate missing parts
Jun 29 10:23:18 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r3a538b8059f9 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_messages_fso.py: opimd: SIM-Messages-FSO: mark merged message as unread after incoming CSM
Jun 29 10:24:48 <SpeedEvil> First I'd media check the raw block device
Jun 29 10:31:28 <Q-Master> dos1!
Jun 29 10:31:47 * SpeedEvil tries to remember.
Jun 29 10:31:56 <SpeedEvil> I think I started on dos3.0
Jun 29 10:34:05 <dos1> Q-Master: hi
Jun 29 10:34:19 <dos1> i'm only for few minutes here, cause i'm going outside :x
Jun 29 10:34:52 <Q-Master> dos1: how's the things with efl2? it works very bad now
Jun 29 10:35:28 <dos1> Q-Master: ping mrmoku for that, he is au efl2
Jun 29 10:35:47 <Q-Master> ok.
Jun 29 10:36:13 <dos1> s/au/author of/
Jun 29 10:36:13 <apt> dos1 meant: Q-Master: ping mrmoku for that, he is author of efl2
Jun 29 10:38:11 <Q-Master> dos1: can you plz write to FSO ml about opimd API change?
Jun 29 10:38:43 <Q-Master> dos1: yep, I've understood
Jun 29 11:05:58 <nio_> Heh, so SHR stands for 'Scottish Hill Runners' ey? :)
Jun 29 11:06:20 <Ainulindale> Meh :-)
Jun 29 11:09:45 <sybren> Hey folks
Jun 29 11:10:16 <sybren> I've written some Python scripts that use DBUS on SHR Unstable, and I get "Using **pending_return in dbus_connection_send_with_reply_setup() without pending_setup is deprecated and strongly discouraged" all the time. Is there anything I can do to fix that?
Jun 29 11:13:17 <Q-Master> skip it? 8)
Jun 29 11:13:31 <pabs3> anyone here have anything to do with the debconf openmoko buzz fix party?
Jun 29 11:18:33 <nullix> hi, will there be some people using/involved in openmoko coming to RMLL (French :Worldwide Free Software Meeting) http://2009.rmll.info/ 7-11th July 2009 ?
Jun 29 11:18:43 <nullix> i will attend.
Jun 29 11:19:09 <nio_> Is SHR unstable worth a try for daily phone use?
Jun 29 11:19:48 <nio_> Meh, I'm just gonna try it anyway..)
Jun 29 11:22:34 <leinir> Hmm... that's a rather uncommonly unluckily placed event, nullix :)
Jun 29 11:22:46 <leinir> Same time as the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit :)
Jun 29 11:29:11 <nullix> leinir: well, i wasn't ware about, anyway i don't have budget to flight to canary island anyway.
Jun 29 11:33:46 <leinir> it's more a problem that there's people who might well have wanted to take part in both :)
Jun 29 11:35:56 <nullix> yes but this date was set long time ago, and there are always conflicting events, that's life :-)
Jun 29 11:40:53 <Blackhex> Hello, please how to mount internal memory when I booted from SD card?
Jun 29 11:40:56 <leinir> Hehe, yup, always the way :)
Jun 29 11:42:55 <lindi-> Blackhex: what's unclear?
Jun 29 11:43:07 <Blackhex> lindi-: what's the device
Jun 29 11:43:29 <Blackhex> somehow searching in openmoko wiki stoped working
Jun 29 11:43:53 <Q-Master> Blackhex: /dev/mtdblock6  /media/flash    jffs2   rw,noatime,noauto                       0 2
Jun 29 11:43:55 <Q-Master> in /etc/fstab
Jun 29 11:44:04 <Blackhex> Q-Master: Thank you
Jun 29 11:44:24 <Q-Master> Blackhex: np
Jun 29 11:46:06 <Blackhex> I would suggest to include /boot/uImage-GTA02 file in om2009 releases. It's quite annoying for Qi users to create this file aggain and aggain...
Jun 29 11:48:27 <lindi-> Blackhex: that's the problem of Qi, you can't configure it :-)
Jun 29 11:48:48 <lindi-> Blackhex: at least it should be symlink. having a file with that name is not very informative
Jun 29 11:48:48 * Q-Master don't use OM2009
Jun 29 11:49:50 <Blackhex> lindi-: maybe I'm wrong but once I've try to make a symlink of kernel for Qi it won't boot, so I suppose it has to bo regular file
Jun 29 11:54:25 <Q-Master> Blackhex: you're wrong. In shr this symlink is created automatically, so everything works ok for me
Jun 29 11:54:29 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: Qi supports symlinks
Jun 29 11:54:58 <Blackhex> Can it be relative?
Jun 29 11:56:13 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: yes
Jun 29 11:56:31 <Blackhex> weird, I've just tried and it didn't boot.
Jun 29 11:56:46 <Q-Master> it works for me
Jun 29 11:56:52 <xqo> Hi!
Jun 29 11:57:03 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 49 Jun  4 23:14 /boot/uImage-GTA02.bin -> uImage-moredrivers-GTA02_a-t-5b8138ba5c1dbc86.bin
Jun 29 11:57:26 <Q-Master> Blackhex: root@om-gta02 ~ $ ls -al /boot
Jun 29 11:57:26 <Q-Master> drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         4096 Jun 24 12:55 .
Jun 29 11:57:26 <Q-Master> drwxr-xr-x   16 root     root         4096 Jun  2 12:01 ..
Jun 29 11:57:26 <Q-Master> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root           26 Jun  9 08:32 append-GTA02
Jun 29 11:57:26 <Q-Master> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           17 Jun 24 12:55 uImage -> uImage-2.6.29-rc3
Jun 29 11:57:26 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: you use incorrect file name
Jun 29 11:57:41 <Q-Master> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root      1832600 Jun 24 10:21 uImage-2.6.29-rc3
Jun 29 11:57:41 <Q-Master> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            6 Jun  2 11:21 uImage-GTA02.bin -> uImage
Jun 29 11:57:41 <Q-Master> Blackhex: 2 symklinks
Jun 29 11:57:44 <Blackhex> uImage-GTA02.bin ?
Jun 29 11:58:00 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: that'd be correct.
Jun 29 11:58:14 <Blackhex> that's what I'm using
Jun 29 11:58:38 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: you see the symlink i use, don't you?
Jun 29 12:05:21 <rhaeder1> hello, when do you add this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Wish_List_-_Hardware#PIN_secured.3F
Jun 29 12:05:27 <rhaeder1> maybe wrong place, okay :)
Jun 29 12:05:35 <rhaeder1> it is software, not hardware
Jun 29 12:07:27 <PaulFertser> rhaeder1: to whom this question is directed?
Jun 29 12:08:13 <rhaeder1> do this list
Jun 29 12:09:02 <rhaeder1> doh? I'm double signed in. again I forgot to go offline on my home computer :/
Jun 29 12:10:39 <SpeedEvil> rhaeder: wishlist features - if you add it yourself
Jun 29 12:10:58 <SpeedEvil> rhaeder: very few of them are likley to be implemented in the next year
Jun 29 12:19:35 <DocScrutinizer> sheeesh, my tablet seems to be logged in to a dummy bip
Jun 29 12:20:08 <DocScrutinizer> again:
Jun 29 12:20:12 <DocScrutinizer> maybe symlink even *has* to be relative, as Qi might have limited knowledge about whole filesystem. I could imagine sth like "./../boot/uImage" won't work. Also a symlink to a symlink might not work. PaulFertser might correct me if i'm wrong
Jun 29 12:20:43 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i think anything like that should work, iirc.
Jun 29 12:21:17 <PaulFertser> There's a limit so you won't be able to cycle symlinks forever. 
Jun 29 12:21:23 <DocScrutinizer> k, was just a wild guess, based on consideration about Qi supposed to be as simple as possible
Jun 29 12:22:19 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, seems now my tablet did a relogon
Jun 29 12:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> bbl, cya
Jun 29 12:26:51 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03werner * r5248 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (STATUS cpu-power.sch cpu_power.sch gta02-core.sch): Renamed cpu_power.sch to cpu-power.sch.
Jun 29 12:29:04 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03werner * r5249 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (components/gta02-core-expanded.lib expanded/cpu.sch): 
Jun 29 12:29:04 <CIA-47> openmoko: Added HT110 (single LED) and ISC5804AT2 (single transistor) to expanded
Jun 29 12:29:04 <CIA-47> openmoko: view.
Jun 29 12:34:41 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03werner * r5250 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ (gta02-core-expanded.lib gta02-core.lib): Removed generated libraries.
Jun 29 12:37:40 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03werner * r5251 10/trunk/gta02-core/Makefile: 
Jun 29 12:37:40 <CIA-47> openmoko: Added convenience target "make update" to check out the latest SVN revision
Jun 29 12:37:40 <CIA-47> openmoko: and to run mkloe.
Jun 29 13:05:41 <ChristW> Good afternoon!
Jun 29 13:06:54 <ChristW> I'm having trouble with QTEi's 'Internet' settings, wireless networks to be exact. I can choose an ESSID, but not the mode, nor a password. QT's help _does_ mention a mode and encryption settings. What could be wrong?
Jun 29 13:07:37 <PaulFertser> ChristW: using QTEi? ;)
Jun 29 13:07:51 <ChristW> ...if I want a reliable phone, yes...
Jun 29 13:08:24 <ChristW> Om2009t5 doesn't give me any audio (in- nor out-) during a GSM call, which is not the intended usage for a phone.
Jun 29 13:08:37 <PaulFertser> TBH i still can't understand why people who want a reliable phone use FR...
Jun 29 13:08:54 <ChristW> So, to appease my SO, I bought an SD card (not to appease her) and installed QTEi...
Jun 29 13:09:02 <Blackhex> Hello, me again. I installed SHR on your recommendation, but USB networking stopped working...
Jun 29 13:09:12 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: read dmesg on your host?
Jun 29 13:09:47 <ChristW> Well, there's a difference between 'reliable' and 'reliable', but still... _Any_ sound (in QTEi) beats no sound at all.
Jun 29 13:11:06 <PaulFertser> ChristW: you probably used some wrong build or smth. Or you just needed to ssh to the device and quickly find out what's wrong with it.
Jun 29 13:11:47 <Blackhex> [ 1055.650995] usbcore: deregistering interface driver cdc_ether
Jun 29 13:11:47 <Blackhex> [ 1059.446202] usbcore: registered new interface driver cdc_ether
Jun 29 13:11:57 <ChristW> For Om2009? I'll do that at home, since at the moment I am on a Mac, and don't have a cable handy.
Jun 29 13:12:25 <Blackhex> nothing appropriate just that, I can't find any nopaste service
Jun 29 13:12:43 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: read more
Jun 29 13:12:57 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: you should see a network interface appearing.
Jun 29 13:13:43 <Blackhex> PaulFertser: the problem is that it is not appearing and device is not getting power. It seems like host problem but I worked perfectly before few seconds when I have Om2009 booted.
Jun 29 13:13:56 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: ifconfig -a
Jun 29 13:14:16 <Blackhex> PaulFertser: nothing
Jun 29 13:15:03 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: ifconfig -a | nc paste.dyndns.org 1234
Jun 29 13:17:26 <Blackhex> http://nopaste.ceske-hry.cz:80/222722
Jun 29 13:19:50 <methril|work> morning
Jun 29 13:21:16 <Blackhex> PaulFertser: see, no usb interface at all, dmes is empyt even when I re-attach the device
Jun 29 13:22:28 <rhaeder1> s.o. from Germany, Ruhrgebiet here? http://osm.org/go/0GDzS4Rhv== <-- we want to meet today here (Düsseldorf)
Jun 29 13:26:30 <Blackhex> PaulFertser: just rebooted to Om2009 and it's working aggain, so the problem is that SHR don't activate USB device at all
Jun 29 13:44:25 <slaxxer> maybe using an older kernel will work
Jun 29 13:44:58 <slaxxer> shr-unstable   20090624 wouldnt work for me
Jun 29 13:45:17 <slaxxer> moved back to 20090617
Jun 29 13:50:38 <Blackhex> slaxxer: It's testing
Jun 29 13:51:12 <Blackhex> slaxxer: but i'll try
Jun 29 13:58:02 <xqo> anyone using windows to connect to their freerunner?
Jun 29 14:06:01 <lindi-> xqo: should everyone just answer "no"? ;)
Jun 29 14:08:06 <SM2k> xqo: I tried that early on as I was setting things up. that's the path of pain. when forced to use a windows machine, I simply resort to running linux in a VM.
Jun 29 14:09:28 <xqo> http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1279
Jun 29 14:09:53 <xqo> i am having problems with that, mwester posted a patch or something: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/attachment/ticket/1279/rndis.patch, but i dont know how to use it
Jun 29 14:10:21 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxer: 20090624 borks for me as well, frequently. "dbus borked", missing inbound calls, no outbound calls, settings segfaulting or freezing... etc pp
Jun 29 14:13:57 <max_posedon> dbus borked can be meet in any version...
Jun 29 14:14:39 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: you really should upgrade only one package at a time so that you know which one causes the issue?
Jun 29 14:14:59 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, I flashed the image
Jun 29 14:15:06 <SM2k> that's far too involved. :-)
Jun 29 14:15:23 <lysgaard> I've got these problems with usb host. Heres my dmesg, you can se it at the end: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=6356#a6356
Jun 29 14:15:32 <lindi-> in debian I always do daily backups and when I upgrade I read the changelogs of the package
Jun 29 14:15:36 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: so no upgrade involved at all
Jun 29 14:15:54 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: ah yes, flashing is evil too :)
Jun 29 14:15:59 <max_posedon> btw, fsousaged finally works for me
Jun 29 14:16:09 <max_posedon> after sunday
Jun 29 14:16:24 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: FR is evil, everything else is colateral
Jun 29 14:16:25 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: (or rather the need to flash is usually a symptom of a system that is hard to upgrade)
Jun 29 14:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> well, I hardly could update from a NeoUnderground test console image from 2008.06
Jun 29 14:17:42 <DocScrutinizer> s/date/grade/
Jun 29 14:17:42 <apt> DocScrutinizer meant: well, I hardly could upgrade from a NeoUnderground test console image from 2008.06
Jun 29 14:18:26 <xqo> I am looking for a 2.6.22.5 uImage, where can i find one?
Jun 29 14:18:37 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: so I *had* to flash anyway
Jun 29 14:19:03 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yeah i'm not blaming you specifically :)
Jun 29 14:26:16 <Blackhex> Just great, I installed shr-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20090617-om-gta02.rootfs and USB networking still not working.
Jun 29 14:28:52 <lysgaard> Blackhex: It's probably the renaming of interface problem
Jun 29 14:29:23 <Blackhex> lysgaard: that means?
Jun 29 14:29:27 <lysgaard> Blackhex: Do you have some sort of autamation when you plug in the neo to get dns ip etc?
Jun 29 14:30:28 <Blackhex> lysgaard: there is not problem with network configuration, but with usb device, SHR is refusing to intialize device even for charging
Jun 29 14:31:21 <Blackhex> lysgaard: I used lastest testing and now 20090617 unstable which shoul be fine according to slaxxer
Jun 29 14:31:24 <lysgaard> Well, then i don't know what's wrong. But i have to say I'm having strange usb problems too
Jun 29 14:31:33 <xqo> is it possible to stop Paroli from checking for the SIM PIN-code? I don't remember mine, and I disabled the SIM-card's checking with another phone 
Jun 29 14:32:17 <lysgaard> xqo: Dunno, but ask the #paroli channel
Jun 29 14:32:44 <xqo> oki, thank you
Jun 29 14:33:00 <lysgaard> Blackhex: Do usb host work to you?
Jun 29 14:33:58 <Blackhex> lysgaard: everything (only USB :-)) is working file in Om2009
Jun 29 14:34:56 <lysgaard> Well, I'm on shr, want to get it working there. You've tried usb _host_?
Jun 29 14:35:00 <Blackhex> lysgaard: but after I reboot to SHR, there is simply no usb networking device both on host and neo
Jun 29 14:35:28 <Blackhex> lysgaard: what do you mean by _host_?
Jun 29 14:36:06 <lysgaard> I mean plugging usb devices to the freerunner, eg memmorystick
Jun 29 14:37:03 <Blackhex> lysanderslair: I have nothing with micro usb port
Jun 29 14:37:09 <methril|work> lysgaard: what your dmesg said?
Jun 29 14:38:52 <Blackhex> Just tell me, if anyone has wokring usb networking or even charging with SHR, what image did you installed (a link), please
Jun 29 14:39:43 <lysgaard> methril|work: This is the dmesg from the phone when i try to plug in usb devices in host mode: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=6356#a6356
Jun 29 14:40:58 <lysgaard> Blackhex: I have working usb networking, scp etc on latest shr
Jun 29 14:41:30 <lysgaard> methril|work: You see the usb errors at the end: Unable to enumerate etc.
Jun 29 14:41:52 <Blackhex> lysgaard: testing or unstable?
Jun 29 14:42:06 <Blackhex> lysanderslair: lite or not?
Jun 29 14:42:21 <Blackhex> sry
Jun 29 14:42:43 <lysgaard> Blackhex: unstable
Jun 29 14:43:13 <Blackhex> lysgaard: ok, that's ome I haven't tried, flashing...
Jun 29 14:45:44 <Blackhex> I just for fun exectuted modprobe usbnet on the phone and it says Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.24/modules.dep No such file or directory. The kernel should be 2.6.29, is that a problem?
Jun 29 14:46:39 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: i can provide you dmesg from my kernel after i insert a mass storage device. Not sure it'll be of any help.
Jun 29 14:47:00 <lysgaard> PaulFertser: Would me nice
Jun 29 14:47:10 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: looks like you're running 2.6.24 instead of 2.6.29.
Jun 29 14:47:45 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: so if you use kernel for which you don't have modules it might very well result in inability to establish usbnet connection.
Jun 29 14:48:26 <lysgaard> Hey! that's maybe it
Jun 29 14:48:27 <Blackhex> PaulFertser: so how is it possible that I have booted 2.6.24?
Jun 29 14:48:34 <Blackhex> PaulFertser: I use Qi
Jun 29 14:49:07 <lysgaard> When i use modprobe i get the same error
Jun 29 14:49:37 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: do you have uSD inserted?
Jun 29 14:49:44 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: really?
Jun 29 14:50:32 <Blackhex> uname -r gives me 2.6.24
Jun 29 14:50:35 <lysgaard> Yes! Here's a snippet from ssh: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=6357#a6357
Jun 29 14:50:41 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: here is my dmesg http://paste.debian.net/40561/
Jun 29 14:50:50 <lysgaard> Well, it's not completely the same error
Jun 29 14:51:07 <Blackhex> isn't possible that /boot/uImage.bin is old 2.6.24 kernel and everyone has used kernel from boot patition so far?
Jun 29 14:52:20 <PaulFertser> Blackhex: Qi boots the first kernel it founds. First it looks at uSD. Then boots from NAND.
Jun 29 14:52:47 <Blackhex> PaulFertser: I now that's what I ment.
Jun 29 14:53:12 <methril|work> lysgaard: change your kernel
Jun 29 14:53:15 <Blackhex> s/now/know
Jun 29 14:53:37 <methril|work> lysgaard: do you have /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3 dir?
Jun 29 14:53:38 <lysgaard> methril|work: How?
Jun 29 14:53:45 <lysgaard> Yes
Jun 29 14:54:00 <methril|work> you boot from uSD or flash?
Jun 29 14:54:01 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: so you built a new kernel but are using the old one?
Jun 29 14:54:04 <lysgaard> flash
Jun 29 14:54:13 <lysgaard> maybe? i don know
Jun 29 14:54:16 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: no, you've another problem.
Jun 29 14:54:28 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: you should have untarred the modules archives to your /
Jun 29 14:54:41 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5252 10/trunk/gta02-core/gps.sch: Use net names instead of global labels
Jun 29 14:54:44 <lysgaard> oh? never done that before
Jun 29 14:55:02 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: in your build directory there's a modules archive waiting for you ;)
Jun 29 14:55:10 <lysgaard> ah!
Jun 29 14:55:19 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: otoh it's not strictly necessary with "moredrivers" defconfig.
Jun 29 14:55:25 <methril|work> PaulFertser: get the trick :)
Jun 29 14:55:33 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: i have only ipv6 loaded atm and i never needed it actually.
Jun 29 14:56:50 <lysgaard> So that's not what's bugging my usb?
Jun 29 14:57:40 <methril|work> lysgaard: What's bugging your usb are missing modules for the boot kernel
Jun 29 14:57:54 <methril|work> if you have 2.6.24, you need the 2.6.24 kernel modules
Jun 29 14:58:19 <methril|work> or if you have 2.6.29rc3 you need the 2.6.29-rc3 kernel modules
Jun 29 14:58:27 <lysgaard> how do i check?
Jun 29 14:58:27 <Blackhex> I have /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3 but uname -r is 2.6.24 so how is this possible when I flashed http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20090617-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 didn't make any further changes and bootet from internal flash with Qi?
Jun 29 14:59:00 <lysgaard> methril|work: uname -a 2.6.29-GTA02_andy-tracking-mokodev
Jun 29 14:59:14 <methril|work> untar the 2.6.24 in your root fs and you could have /lib/modules/2.6.24
Jun 29 14:59:51 <Blackhex> methril|work: how without USB networking :-)?
Jun 29 14:59:52 <lysgaard> Where do i find the module tar pack?
Jun 29 14:59:53 <methril|work> lysgaard: if you compile your kernel, you've a modules tar file in your build dir
Jun 29 15:00:17 <methril|work> Blackhex: copying to a uSD card?
Jun 29 15:00:41 <methril|work> lysgaard: what you used to compile? OE or toolchain?
Jun 29 15:00:43 <Blackhex> methril|work: I don't have an adapter right now
Jun 29 15:01:23 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5253 10/trunk/gta02-core/gps.sch: Missing annotation
Jun 29 15:01:24 <methril|work> Blackhex: then modify your rootfs with the modules and flash it again
Jun 29 15:02:08 <lysgaard> methril|work: OE i guess. I ised the build script from git
Jun 29 15:02:09 <Blackhex> methril|work: so why is 2.6.24 kerenel and 2.6.29 modules on official SHR images, should I wait until it's fixed?
Jun 29 15:03:39 <Blackhex> getting jffs2 mount working would take me much time which I don't want to spent on it right now, just tell me what Image I should flash wich has modules and kernel matching, please?
Jun 29 15:04:02 <max_posedon> Blackhex, sorry, kernel doesn't on image at all
Jun 29 15:04:19 <max_posedon> e.g. you!! must flash kernel to nand yourself
Jun 29 15:04:21 <lysgaard> PaulFertser: You know this: You know yesterday, i compiled the kernel. Where in the build dir is the .tar of modules located?
Jun 29 15:04:30 <max_posedon> neo use different partions for rootfs and kernel
Jun 29 15:05:30 <Blackhex> max_posedon: all right so I must flash SHR kernel to kernel altsetting with dfu-util with Qi?
Jun 29 15:06:05 <Blackhex> I thought it boots from rootfs altsetting from /boot/uImage-GTA02.bin
Jun 29 15:06:06 <max_posedon> not with Qi, but with u-boot
Jun 29 15:06:12 <max_posedon> which can be booted from nand
Jun 29 15:06:18 <max_posedon> not it isn't right
Jun 29 15:06:30 <max_posedon> sorry, booted from nor
Jun 29 15:06:35 <Blackhex> max_posedon: so you are telling that SHR is not compatibe with Qi?
Jun 29 15:06:36 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: in the build dir, the only tar archive
Jun 29 15:06:38 <max_posedon> AUX+power
Jun 29 15:06:45 <max_posedon> Blackhex, compatible
Jun 29 15:06:55 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: to get module archive you need to supply the third (dummy) parameter
Jun 29 15:06:58 <max_posedon> but with Qi you can't flash kernel)
Jun 29 15:07:10 <lysgaard> PaulFertser: There is no .tar archive at all. Did #find . \*.tar. return nothing
Jun 29 15:07:13 <max_posedon> so, flash kernel via u-boot to nand -a kernel
Jun 29 15:07:23 <max_posedon> and then just start Qi
Jun 29 15:07:34 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: tar.gz
Jun 29 15:07:40 <max_posedon> it will boot your neo (for example I do so for shr-unstable)
Jun 29 15:07:55 <lysgaard> PaulFertser: Nada
Jun 29 15:08:05 <lysgaard> PaulFertser: I guess i missed the dummy param
Jun 29 15:08:10 <Blackhex> max_posedon: ok, I'll try
Jun 29 15:08:28 <methril|work> lysgaard: then rebuild with the modules
Jun 29 15:08:48 <lysgaard> methril|work: What is the dummy param, how do I apply it?
Jun 29 15:11:17 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: just do ./build gta02 dumym
Jun 29 15:11:27 <lysgaard> ah, douh
Jun 29 15:11:33 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: read the build script and you'll see everything yourself.
Jun 29 15:12:02 <lysgaard> I think I'll take a look
Jun 29 15:13:16 <Blackhex> methril|work: All right it's working now. This was just misunderstanding between us. If you've just said that Qi is not booting from rootfs but kernel partition of internal flash, I would know where is the problem. So thank you.
Jun 29 15:15:12 <lysgaard> Well, now i got a .tar.gz =)
Jun 29 15:16:23 <sybren> Hi folks
Jun 29 15:16:36 <sybren> I'm working on a Python module to easily read & control the Freerunner's accelerometers
Jun 29 15:16:38 <lysgaard> Hoya
Jun 29 15:17:12 <sybren> I know that different kernel versions have different sysfs paths, and that not all documentation of this is accurate
Jun 29 15:17:52 <sybren> what would you guys think would be the best way to get my code tested on different distributions without me having to flash my Freerunner for every test?
Jun 29 15:17:52 <max_posedon> sybren, what about taking care only about upstream version?
Jun 29 15:18:16 <sybren> max_posedon: in that case: would I be upstream enough when I'm running SHR unstable?
Jun 29 15:18:25 <max_posedon> ys
Jun 29 15:18:29 <max_posedon> *yes
Jun 29 15:18:34 <sybren> good :)
Jun 29 15:19:07 <sybren> what would be a good place to put the script + documentation? the OpenMoko wiki? SHR wiki? My own website?
Jun 29 15:19:40 <max_posedon> in your git sources)
Jun 29 15:19:49 <max_posedon> ah, sorry, on wiki
Jun 29 15:20:06 <sybren> SHR? OM?
Jun 29 15:20:09 <max_posedon> wiki.openmoko.org already have some docs about accelerometers
Jun 29 15:20:35 <max_posedon> but you shoukd really think about what is goal for your project
Jun 29 15:21:04 <sybren> ideally, to be The One Way of using the accelerometers with Python
Jun 29 15:22:06 <max_posedon> hm.. e.g just lib?
Jun 29 15:22:30 <max_posedon> whould it be integrated with FSO?
Jun 29 15:22:40 <max_posedon> why I'll should use your?
Jun 29 15:23:17 <max_posedon> neo know many-many-many accelerometers apps, all of them just proof-of-concept
Jun 29 15:23:27 <max_posedon> and nothing usable in reallif
Jun 29 15:27:04 <tig|1> hi,   I have just got my freerunner back from being buzzfixed but I am having problems with audio quality,  running the latest version of SHR unstable
Jun 29 15:27:11 <sybren> max_posedon: I've searched around for a Python module to interface with the accelerometers, and couldn't find any. So yeah, I just want to create a library for that.
Jun 29 15:27:23 <sybren> tig|1: what kind of problems?
Jun 29 15:27:25 <tig|1> has something gone wrong or are other people hearing this?
Jun 29 15:27:30 <tig|1> crackly audio 
Jun 29 15:27:37 <tig|1> both incoming and outgoing
Jun 29 15:27:49 <max_posedon> sybren, for me, acceleromets is just input device
Jun 29 15:28:04 <max_posedon> as programmer I want keypress events (X events) not any library
Jun 29 15:28:34 <max_posedon> also, I can read data riggt now from tty, (very-very easy)
Jun 29 15:28:48 <max_posedon> how will your library help me?
Jun 29 15:29:08 <sybren> tig|1: have you checked http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Tweaks#fixyourechoproblem ? it didn't really fix my echo problem, but it did improve audio quality
Jun 29 15:29:08 <max_posedon> Don't understand me wrong, I don't want say anything bad about your project
Jun 29 15:29:22 <sybren> max_posedon: I understand, you're just being critical, which is what I want you to be
Jun 29 15:29:40 <tig|1> sybren: aha!  I will give it a try 
Jun 29 15:29:42 <sybren> it's too easy to make just another implementation that nobody's going to use - I don't want that
Jun 29 15:29:45 <max_posedon> I just  want you, to think about your project more, and we both don't want them to die fast.
Jun 29 15:30:12 <tig|1> sybren: I did not try that as I kind of assumed that it would be in the images by now if it worked :) 
Jun 29 15:30:26 <lysgaard> sybren: What about integrating into FSO, dbus?
Jun 29 15:31:37 <sybren> lysgaard: sounds good, I have no idea about what kind of overhead dbus gives you when you want to use both accelerometers at a sampling rate of 100 Hz
Jun 29 15:31:53 <lysgaard> sybren: Me neither =S
Jun 29 15:32:01 <sybren> max_posedon: I've pasted a snippet at http://pastebin.com/m1ec6e5eb that shows you very basic usage of the Accelerometer class I wrote
Jun 29 15:33:23 <sybren> the entire code is at http://stuvel.eu/~sybren/accel.py with a sample application at http://stuvel.eu/~sybren/spiritlevel.py
Jun 29 15:33:49 <sybren> let me package the spiritlevel.py, it also needs some pngs
Jun 29 15:34:22 <max_posedon> While true: update()
Jun 29 15:34:26 <max_posedon> sorry, its a pita
Jun 29 15:34:52 <max_posedon> and this is wrong with your class, application using it will make system slow. very
Jun 29 15:35:23 <max_posedon> I think I'll prefer some async, interface
Jun 29 15:35:37 <max_posedon> or synced with timer may be, I don't know
Jun 29 15:35:47 <max_posedon> in high level I want X-events
Jun 29 15:35:50 <sybren> http://stuvel.eu/~sybren/spiritlevel.tar.gz <-- packet example
Jun 29 15:35:52 <sybren> packed*
Jun 29 15:36:02 <max_posedon> like your multimedia keyboard
Jun 29 15:36:12 <max_posedon> do for some special keys
Jun 29 15:36:22 <sybren> sure, but those aren't used 100 times per second (are they?)
Jun 29 15:36:47 <sybren> and then you still have to have some interface for setting the sampling rate and threshold values
Jun 29 15:36:51 <max_posedon> do you know how much events your mounse produce during playing games?
Jun 29 15:36:55 <max_posedon> *mouse*
Jun 29 15:37:14 <sybren> good point
Jun 29 15:37:20 <max_posedon> also, you mis understand me little bit
Jun 29 15:37:32 <max_posedon> accelerometr generates a lot of events
Jun 29 15:37:45 <max_posedon> but X-events will be 1-10 per second
Jun 29 15:37:54 <max_posedon> look at guesters app as example
Jun 29 15:38:12 <max_posedon> it accepts only "big" movement
Jun 29 15:38:35 <max_posedon> and I'll be lucky to have such interface (in high-level)
Jun 29 15:38:57 <sybren> I'm not impressed by the demo movie, it is horrenously slow in interpreting the gestures
Jun 29 15:39:08 <max_posedon> yep.
Jun 29 15:39:49 <sybren> the spirit level app I wrote runs at about 25 FPS and is really responsive - that's the kind of thing I'd like
Jun 29 15:40:17 <sybren> I agree that it would be great to have some SDL events for the accelerometers just like mouse events
Jun 29 15:40:37 <max_posedon> you might be right, I'm might be wrong, but I still have my opinion)
Jun 29 15:41:27 <sybren> max_posedon: and I appreciate your opinion ;-)
Jun 29 15:44:14 <lysgaard> Hm, usb host just won't work
Jun 29 15:51:08 <sybren> max_posedon: maybe some misunderstanding about my class: you don't need to call its update() methods a hundred times a second, you just call it when you want to have an update of the acceleration
Jun 29 15:51:55 <max_posedon> problem is that I don't know how to handle diff correctly
Jun 29 15:52:04 <sybren> diff?
Jun 29 15:52:13 <lysgaard> Any of you guys have confirmed working usb _host_, I'm running out of steam on mine.. =/
Jun 29 15:52:17 <max_posedon> differenct between old and new data
Jun 29 15:52:22 <sybren> lysgaard: not me
Jun 29 15:52:35 <max_posedon> because for example I'm doing it every second
Jun 29 15:52:50 <max_posedon> but sometimes get result for 1 second, sometimes for 2
Jun 29 15:53:16 <max_posedon> e.g. second data will be 2 times bigger
Jun 29 15:53:32 <sybren> yeah, I noticed that too - smaller values for a higher frequency update, but still there appear to be jitters in the time parameters
Jun 29 15:54:25 <max_posedon> acclerometer should return acceleration
Jun 29 15:54:39 <max_posedon> dx, dy, dz don't very interested (for me)
Jun 29 15:54:57 <sybren> well, overall_accell = sqrt(dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2)
Jun 29 15:55:08 <max_posedon> (e.g. I want dx/dt, dy/dt, dz/dt)
Jun 29 15:55:42 <sybren> what dx/dy/dz are you talking about?
Jun 29 15:56:06 <sybren> in my spiritlevel.py?
Jun 29 15:56:38 <max_posedon> sorry, I'm speaking in general, I don't get look at your examples, just "with one eye"
Jun 29 15:57:13 <sybren> ok - in that case you don't want dx/dt either, but ddx/ddt ;-)
Jun 29 15:57:27 <sybren> dx/dt = velocity in x-direction
Jun 29 15:58:03 <max_posedon> yep, your right may be)
Jun 29 15:58:08 <sybren> ;-)
Jun 29 15:58:31 <lysgaard> sybren: Have you tried usb host? or don't you know if it's working?
Jun 29 15:58:48 <sybren> sybren: I haven't tried it at all
Jun 29 15:59:26 <sybren> lysgaard: but I could - I must have a mini-A to normal-B cable from my Zaurus C3000 laying around somewhere, would that work?
Jun 29 16:00:18 <lysgaard> sybren: Worked for me before, but now there's something wrong, and i've litteraly tried everything
Jun 29 16:00:32 <lysgaard> sybren: The cable should do the trick
Jun 29 16:02:42 <SpeedEvil> lysgaard: you've verifired the voltage on the connector?
Jun 29 16:02:43 <SpeedEvil> 5V
Jun 29 16:03:12 <lysgaard> SpeedEvil: Yeah, I can double check
Jun 29 16:04:11 <lysgaard> SpeedEvil: Exactly 5v
Jun 29 16:04:29 <sybren> lysgaard: the mini-A to normal-B cable doesn't fit
Jun 29 16:04:41 <lysgaard> sybren: darn
Jun 29 16:05:52 <lysgaard> SpeedEvil: I'm running out of things to debug on my usb conn. Newest kernel, newest shr
Jun 29 16:28:34 <PBeck> ahoi
Jun 29 16:31:02 <CooL_SPoT> :) hello
Jun 29 16:57:37 <ChristW> PaulFertser, are you there?
Jun 29 17:03:43 <Kyrah> hello, just a question, is the support for the neo1973 officially dropped?
Jun 29 17:05:16 <Kyrah> i can't seem to find any recent firmwares for it.
Jun 29 17:06:16 <max_posedon> hm... support by whome?
Jun 29 17:06:31 <Weiss> there are still people actively working on support for it
Jun 29 17:06:56 <Kyrah> as in, is there anybody still developping support for the neo1973 on the main code branch?
Jun 29 17:07:23 <Kyrah> cause all the latest releases mention they can't be used on the 1973
Jun 29 17:07:24 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03werner * r5254 10/trunk/gta02-core/STATUS: Werner did a GPS review.
Jun 29 17:09:06 <Kyrah> ( and yeah my family STILL make fun of me because i've a cellphone i can't be called with U_U )
Jun 29 17:09:18 <max_posedon> Kyrah, what image do you use?
Jun 29 17:09:24 <max_posedon> I suggest shr-unstable
Jun 29 17:09:31 <Kyrah> lemme look
Jun 29 17:09:42 <max_posedon> and there few people why try support kernel for neo1973
Jun 29 17:11:23 <Kyrah> sheesh battery is dry as usual -_-
Jun 29 17:12:35 <Kyrah> i should try one of those? http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/
Jun 29 17:13:10 <Kyrah> err well the GTA01 ones
Jun 29 17:13:46 <max_posedon> om-gta01
Jun 29 17:14:28 <Kyrah> uImage-om-gta01-latest.bin?
Jun 29 17:15:48 <Kyrah> and shr-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20090623-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2  those two should work?
Jun 29 17:17:21 <max_posedon> yes
Jun 29 17:18:14 <Kyrah> thanks :)
Jun 29 17:18:24 <Kyrah> i will try those once the battery charged some
Jun 29 17:21:15 <SpeedEvil> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/on-hold-in-oldham-soulja-boys-wrong-number-1724187.html
Jun 29 17:21:16 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 29 17:54:05 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5255 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (STATUS ecn0024.txt): Add ECN0024 - Improve GPS ground and PCB layout
Jun 29 17:55:11 <PaulFertser> ChristW: i am
Jun 29 18:40:25 <Digital-Pioneer> So is there any trick I can pull to make the phone STOP RINGING when I hit the reject button, instead of 5 seconds later?
Jun 29 18:40:37 <Digital-Pioneer> Perhaps renicing something?
Jun 29 18:43:11 <Blu3> i'd be happy with it -answering- instead of continuing to ring then "answering" just as it ends.  yesterday i got six calls and they were all lost because it took so long for the phone to react
Jun 29 20:10:35 <PierreN> hi
Jun 29 20:10:45 <PierreN> can i ask question about SHR here please ?
Jun 29 20:12:02 <max_posedon> sure
Jun 29 20:14:50 <PierreN> well i just installed shr testing and i can't suspend the phone ! when i touch the white top bar then the "X" nothings happend...
Jun 29 20:15:15 <PaulFertser> PierreN: i don't think that shr testing is supported atm.
Jun 29 20:15:35 <PierreN> huh few weeks ago it did no ?
Jun 29 20:17:04 <PaulFertser> PierreN: well, judge for yourself: testing is basically a snapshot of unstable. If you find some problem it's fixed in unstable, so you don't directly benefit from it anyway.
Jun 29 20:17:38 <PierreN> hum
Jun 29 20:18:31 <PaulFertser> PierreN: the very latest unstable build has some unsolved problems afaik so i'd recommend to find the one before that.
Jun 29 20:19:14 <PaulFertser> PierreN: does mdbus command for suspending work?
Jun 29 20:20:22 <PierreN> what is the mdbus command to suspend ?
Jun 29 20:22:29 <PierreN> PaulFertser: this one : http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20090617-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 ?
Jun 29 20:23:22 <PaulFertser> PierreN: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.Suspend
Jun 29 20:23:26 <PaulFertser> PierreN: obviously
Jun 29 20:23:49 <PaulFertser> PierreN: (url to the image) sorry i don't use SHR myself, wait for the answers of some guys who use.
Jun 29 20:24:04 <PierreN> ok for the image
Jun 29 20:24:08 <PierreN> mdbus work
Jun 29 20:24:32 <PierreN> and recovering works fine
Jun 29 20:24:49 <PierreN> so... the question is : how to bind this command to the button ?
Jun 29 20:25:48 <PaulFertser> PierreN: ask in #openmoko-cdevel, i'm no E expert :)
Jun 29 20:27:18 <PierreN> hum just trying the last unstable version...
Jun 29 21:02:11 <PierreN> hum is it normal that i can't ssh the phone with SHR unstable ?
Jun 29 21:07:30 <slaxxer> if u use the 20090624 unstable   then yes it is
Jun 29 21:08:11 <slaxxer> 20090617 works  by default
Jun 29 21:08:55 <slaxxer> doc prolly knows what to fix on the latest though u might ask  Doc
Jun 29 21:09:06 <PierreN> slaxxer: 20090617 doesn's work here...
Jun 29 21:09:20 <PaulFertser> slaxxer: unable to ssh is normal?
Jun 29 21:09:26 <slaxxer> u have the very latest kernel
Jun 29 21:09:32 <PaulFertser> slaxxer: can you check ifconfig output on fr? 
Jun 29 21:09:40 <DocScrutinizer> muhaha, iran has counted his fake votes again. surprise, surprise: it's the same amount if fake votes as on first count 
Jun 29 21:09:53 <slaxxer> lololo
Jun 29 21:10:01 <PierreN> hum even lsusb on the host doesn't show the device
Jun 29 21:10:20 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: lol
Jun 29 21:10:28 <slaxxer> ifconfig ?-a
Jun 29 21:10:37 <PaulFertser> PierreN: probably you don't have some modules loaded?
Jun 29 21:10:44 <PaulFertser> PierreN: check on FR if g_ether is loaded.
Jun 29 21:11:11 <slaxxer> its eth2 here
Jun 29 21:11:59 <PierreN> PaulFertser: huh lsmod on FR gives no result ?!
Jun 29 21:12:55 <PaulFertser> PierreN: means you don't have kernel modules in your root filesystem.
Jun 29 21:12:55 <slaxxer> when  i first used the latest shr-unstable     i had no usb ssh
Jun 29 21:13:12 <PaulFertser> PierreN: probably mismatched kernel version.
Jun 29 21:13:18 <PierreN> modprobe g_ether => "FATAL : Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc2/modules.dep: No such file or directory"
Jun 29 21:13:21 <PaulFertser> PierreN: check what kernel you booted from where.
Jun 29 21:13:31 <PaulFertser> PierreN: what gives ls /lib/modules ?
Jun 29 21:13:32 <PierreN> ow ok
Jun 29 21:13:44 <PaulFertser> PierreN: it's interesting to know which modules _are_ there.
Jun 29 21:13:47 <PierreN> hum just installed wrong  kernel sorry
Jun 29 21:14:08 <slaxxer> unane ?
Jun 29 21:14:29 <PierreN> what ?
Jun 29 21:14:39 <slaxxer> nagnaga
Jun 29 21:15:05 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxer: aphasic?
Jun 29 21:15:40 <slaxxer> PierreN u still using the lates shr?
Jun 29 21:15:48 <slaxxer>  changing kernel?
Jun 29 21:17:39 <slaxxer> failure to maintain continuity to fingers
Jun 29 21:18:26 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: alsa is really great, but nevertheless it SUUUUUCKS!!!!
Jun 29 21:18:39 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Jun 29 21:19:11 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: love-hate relationship? ;)
Jun 29 21:19:21 <DocScrutinizer> and doc (huh WHAT?) sucks pumkins
Jun 29 21:20:30 <DocScrutinizer> not even source comments on correct parameters ans semantics of such a simple thing like @func getenv
Jun 29 21:20:36 <DocScrutinizer> >:-(
Jun 29 21:20:38 <PierreN> slaxxer: yes uploading a new kernel
Jun 29 21:21:15 <PaulFertser> "It can be argued that, due to the fact that the subjects love each other despite issues they have, a love hate relationship actually represents a stronger bond than a simple love relationship does. Also since a constant hatred is felt, any new issues which emerge are unlikely to put the relationship in jeopardy. However it is also true that real happiness may be attained from such a relationship as there would always be commitment and love for the 
Jun 29 21:21:21 <PaulFertser> ... other person as it existed even when the dislikes are known and accepted as part of relationship. This kind of relationship is also more likely to bring peace and contentment in life of those people."
Jun 29 21:21:37 <slaxxer> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-2.6.29-oe10+gitr119820+4e418ad2a6bae9681a7863ab8f376ce47da3e33a-r3.5-om-gta02.bin
Jun 29 21:21:50 <slaxxer> is that the correct kernel?
Jun 29 21:22:28 <PaulFertser> slaxxer: looks like that
Jun 29 21:22:58 <PierreN> slaxxer: *+5a6e*
Jun 29 21:23:21 * DocScrutinizer dreams of meeting some of those alsa wankers in a lonely dark forrest... NOT for any friendly act of love ;-)
Jun 29 21:23:55 <slaxxer> ic
Jun 29 21:24:39 <SpeedEvil> If an alsa developer is smacked in a forest, does it make any sound if the mixer is turned down?
Jun 29 21:24:48 <slaxxer> tell me if it  will ssh
Jun 29 21:24:52 <DocScrutinizer> loool
Jun 29 21:25:05 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: +++
Jun 29 21:25:14 <slaxxer> lots of noise
Jun 29 21:25:48 <SpeedEvil> And you could have developed a decent sound system anytime in the past decade, we'd have all thanked you.
Jun 29 21:27:12 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: alsa isn't that bad. Actually it seems you can do amazing thing, IF ONLY THERE WERE DOCS
Jun 29 21:27:46 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart doxygen
Jun 29 21:27:46 * apt takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down doxygen's throat until doxygen puts on 150lbs
Jun 29 21:29:31 <PierreN> hum now lsusb works, i can ifconfig eth4 up && ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
Jun 29 21:29:39 <PierreN> but i still can't ssh to it
Jun 29 21:29:43 <PierreN> neither ping it
Jun 29 21:30:00 <slaxxer> oooo no
Jun 29 21:30:39 <PaulFertser> PierreN: check if g_ether is loaded on FR
Jun 29 21:30:45 <PierreN> hum spoke too fast it works thanks ^^
Jun 29 21:31:20 <DocScrutinizer> PierreN: route add
Jun 29 21:31:30 <PaulFertser> PierreN: you see?
Jun 29 21:32:21 <PierreN> yes i can ssh it
Jun 29 21:32:22 <PaulFertser> Did everybody see that? And the moral is: do not blame distro when the problem is something else, especially when it's that simple.
Jun 29 21:32:56 <PierreN> yeah my fault
Jun 29 21:33:00 <slaxxer> ooooo well
Jun 29 21:33:26 <DocScrutinizer> yes, always search the bug *in front of* monitor first ;-P
Jun 29 21:34:22 <slaxxer> somebody learned something,,    so its never  a total loss
Jun 29 21:35:16 <DocScrutinizer> nothing is a total loss, it's all just entropy
Jun 29 21:53:50 <PierreN> hum is this normal that at each opkg upgrade i seg fault ?
Jun 29 21:56:52 <max_posedon> PierreN, its a pita, but yes
Jun 29 21:56:52 <max_posedon> you need swap
Jun 29 22:01:40 <PierreN> max_posedon: is there a web page on how to do this ? google doesn't help
Jun 29 22:02:06 <SpeedEvil> PierreN: make a file of 64M or so.
Jun 29 22:02:09 <Blu3> and you need to increase max files in /proc/sys/sys/file-max
Jun 29 22:02:16 <SpeedEvil> PierreN: then mkswap filename
Jun 29 22:02:20 <SpeedEvil> then swapon filenamme
Jun 29 22:02:52 <PierreN> ok
Jun 29 22:03:08 <Blu3>  /proc/sys/fs/file-max i meant
Jun 29 22:08:15 <DocScrutinizer> PierreN: or you upgrade every package separately. there's been a 2liner script somewhere on SHR-ML (pointer)
Jun 29 22:09:28 <max_posedon> Blu3, really? I first time here about this
Jun 29 22:09:29 <DocScrutinizer> PierreN: I consider this a much easier way to handle this nuisance, than to create swap etc
Jun 29 22:11:06 <Blu3> max_posedon, it fixed my inability to upgrade headers last week
Jun 29 22:11:49 <PierreN> DocScrutinizer: yeah that's what i done for 2 packages (now upgrade seems to work fine)
Jun 29 22:12:00 <Blu3> doc, the thing i don't enjoy about doing each package on it's own is the ~20 hours it takes to upgrade if you have ~60 packages, like if the kernel and modules get updated
Jun 29 22:13:02 * DocScrutinizer shrugs
Jun 29 22:13:07 <DocScrutinizer> never done yet
Jun 29 22:13:17 <max_posedon> neo educate his users
Jun 29 22:13:45 <max_posedon> most of neo users know much more now, than before bying freerunner)
Jun 29 22:14:29 <max_posedon> what about taking part in losing moneys from some EU-IT-Linux-Education branch for it?)
Jun 29 22:14:44 <max_posedon> s/branch/grant
Jun 29 22:15:05 <nio_> So I was terribly stressed out today. Thought I lost my Freerunner in the train.
Jun 29 22:15:27 <nio_> Of course it turns out I left it at home..
Jun 29 22:15:29 <nio_> Pfooey
Jun 29 22:31:43 <DocScrutinizer> oha, TV "next" to my door
Jun 29 22:31:58 <DocScrutinizer> live
Jun 30 01:13:01 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03Duncanla * r5256 10/trunk/gta02-core/io.sch: Cleaned up the IO schematics.
Jun 30 01:21:16 <CIA-45> openmoko: 03Duncanla * r5257 10/trunk/gta02-core/io.sch: Reverted vibrator circuit to look the same as OM schematics.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 30 02:59:57 2009