**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 03 02:59:57 2009 Jul 03 05:53:47 openmoko: 03Duncanla * r5279 10/trunk/gta02-core/lcm.sch: Moved some component labels to clean up LCM schematics. Jul 03 09:35:40 openmoko: 03daveb * r5280 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (bt.sch cpu-power.sch cpu.sch io.sch sd-sim.sch): component labelling conventions Jul 03 10:08:56 openmoko: 03daveb * r5281 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (bt.sch cpu-power.sch memory.sch pmu.sch): Power flags for indirectly powered nets. Jul 03 11:28:41 openmoko: 03daveb * r5282 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Jul 03 11:28:41 openmoko: more ERC prompted fixes Jul 03 11:28:41 openmoko: - PWR_FLAGs Jul 03 11:28:41 openmoko: - Missing GLabels Jul 03 11:28:41 openmoko: - Inconisistently named GLabels Jul 03 11:28:42 openmoko: Relocate BT_PIO5 and board revision detection Jul 03 11:29:38 * Kegeruneku is away: le jambon de bayonne c'est la sante Jul 03 11:30:49 I have jam on the bayonette I did santa with? Jul 03 11:31:02 * SpeedEvil needs to brush up on his french. Jul 03 11:45:31 openmoko: 03daveb * r5283 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (gps.sch memory.sch usb.sch): Jul 03 11:45:31 openmoko: add missing GLabels Jul 03 11:45:31 openmoko: connect missed ground on USB Jul 03 11:45:31 openmoko: rename EXTINT0 to GPS_EXTINT Jul 03 12:43:47 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r66c992afd6c5 10/ (33 files in 7 dirs): fix async annotation Jul 03 12:46:13 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r130fb4c50f81 10/framework/resource.py: resource: enable, if ousaged is not present Jul 03 13:06:10 is there a way not to restart the freerunner when wanting ssh access? Jul 03 13:06:11 (shr) Jul 03 13:06:22 (through usb) Jul 03 13:09:59 ? Jul 03 13:10:07 why can't you just ssh in Jul 03 13:13:53 you should restart the freerunner first before you can ssh in through usb ... Jul 03 13:13:59 brb, reboot Jul 03 13:20:08 b Jul 03 13:23:34 openmoko: 03werner * r5284 10/trunk/gta02-core/kicad-patches/ (erc-exceptions.patch series streamline-erc.patch): Upgraded to r1857 and added ERC exceptions. Jul 03 13:24:24 openmoko: 03werner * r5285 10/trunk/gta02-core/gta02-core.erx: ERC exception list. (Needs KiCad r1857 plus our patch set.) Jul 03 16:01:06 hi Jul 03 16:10:23 openmoko: 03werner * r5286 10/trunk/gta02-core/kicad-patches/erc-exceptions.patch: Tentative fix for unicode problem. Jul 03 16:19:28 hi Jul 03 17:11:45 Hi, what is the ubifs.img stuff shr has started to supply next to the normal jffs2 and tar.gz packages ? Jul 03 17:14:52 Before I do it, if I connect Neo to USB supply, take out the battery, put in a new one, will it still be powered? (I want to see if it's possible to switch batteries on the fly) Jul 03 17:15:03 That is, has anyone tried something like that so far? :) Jul 03 17:21:17 azaghal: FAFAIK my Neo keeps on running with no battery if it's hooked up to the USB Jul 03 17:21:22 but I'm not sure Jul 03 17:22:13 Nice Jul 03 17:23:00 Bert_2: Thanks Jul 03 17:23:15 Actually, got this battery some months ago, hope it's not damaged (haven't tried it yet). Jul 03 17:23:39 As a quick check, does deep sleep of GSM chip work now? Jul 03 17:24:05 I have no idea Jul 03 17:24:10 I usually just try Jul 03 17:24:32 usually you can't damage anything if you pull power or something Jul 03 17:25:03 azaghal: with the hardware fix for #1024 it works Jul 03 17:25:39 lindi-: That's the soldering two pins fix? Jul 03 17:25:46 lindi-: I don't know anything about fixes Jul 03 17:27:14 azaghal: i have not done it myself yet Jul 03 17:28:04 lindi-: what kind of fixes are we talking about and why are they required ? (I know something about a microphone fix but that's it) Jul 03 17:29:39 Wow! Jul 03 17:29:45 143 hours? Jul 03 17:30:33 azaghal: what ??? Jul 03 17:31:10 Bert_2: Take a look at the ticket #1024 (follow the link to the mailing list on it at bottom) Jul 03 17:32:32 Although, it wasn't really 143 hours, a bit less (he turned off the phone during one night). Jul 03 17:32:47 But still, anything above 4 days would rock the house :) Jul 03 17:32:50 azaghal: this page: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2742334 ? Jul 03 17:33:34 Yep Jul 03 17:33:53 Wait, no Jul 03 17:33:54 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-May/001192.html Jul 03 17:37:31 azaghal: that is indeed an interesting post Jul 03 18:58:37 hello, where is the place to ask fso questions? Jul 03 19:12:28 walkie: here Jul 03 19:12:54 walkie: and if they're really development-related, on #openmoko-cdevel. Jul 03 19:14:23 for some reason i want wifi under fso. it is not in standard distriburion, is there any step-by step solution to enable it (i suspect it must be enabled by dbus) Jul 03 19:18:33 if ifconfig eth0 up will up wifi interface, the other i can do by myself, but there should be the way to put power on wifi device Jul 03 19:20:19 walkie: wifi is included in FSO Jul 03 19:20:31 walkie: but it's turned off by default. Jul 03 19:20:49 walkie: btw, FSO is not a proper distro, it's just a demo image for developers. Jul 03 19:21:16 walkie: to turn wifi on you need to either request (and keep) resource WiFi or set WiFi resource policy to "enabled". Jul 03 19:21:36 i know about demo image, but it is only distribution what can run for weeks on mine neo Jul 03 19:21:53 walkie: np, whatever you like. Just set policy to enabled. Jul 03 19:22:18 tell me please where to set this policy Jul 03 19:25:29 walkie: you do "mdbus -s", then "mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced" then you'll see possible dbus pathes, then you'll see functions. You need to find out how to set WiFi resource policy to "enabled". Trust me, it's easy. Jul 03 19:25:51 good method Jul 03 19:27:36 well i see /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerControl/WiFi Jul 03 19:27:43 next step? Jul 03 19:27:57 walkie: well, i misguided you sorry ;) Jul 03 19:28:06 walkie: it's ousaged bus Jul 03 19:28:53 walkie: resource name "WiFi", policy "enabled" Jul 03 19:29:27 Is Mofi just hanging indefinitely in shr for the rest of people? (20090617) Jul 03 19:30:13 well i list it with -s, but what to do with for example /org/freesmartphone/Usage Jul 03 19:30:31 walkie: just add to the end of the command line Jul 03 19:32:12 walkie mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerControl/WiFi org.freesmartphone.Resource.Enable enables Wifi Jul 03 19:32:30 replace Enable with Disable to turn it off again. Jul 03 19:32:45 thanks Jul 03 19:33:04 but a little more tries should be done Jul 03 19:33:05 tschaka: that's not correct method, you're bypassing higher (resource) layer, i'm afraid. Jul 03 19:33:25 walkie: i think ousaged should be used. Jul 03 19:33:31 with my tries i getting service not found Jul 03 19:33:32 walkie: do you need exact command line? Jul 03 19:34:15 PaulFertser it seems to work for me. just found it in some forums... :) Jul 03 19:34:38 tschaka: wrong solutions sometimes work. Until you found they have unexpected side-effects. Jul 03 19:35:06 PaulFertser true... what would be the way to go? ousaged? Jul 03 19:35:12 tschaka: ousaged is there for a reason, yes. Jul 03 19:35:32 okay thanks i'll digg into it :) Jul 03 19:35:48 tschaka: with ousaged you get resource tracking, if two processes require resource and then one releases it, it won't be turned off. Jul 03 19:36:18 well, it is working, thanks PaulFertser for the basics of mdbus usage Jul 03 19:36:24 Hm... What tutorial for d-bus in Python would you people recommend? Jul 03 19:36:48 walkie: working with ousaged? Jul 03 19:37:14 tschaka, and you for exact command line Jul 03 19:37:27 azaghal: i guess just read the examples. Zhone for client-side. And you can read parts of frameworkd for server-side. Jul 03 19:37:31 azaghal: razorblades to the eyeballs for starters :) Jul 03 19:37:35 ousages lists only Jul 03 19:37:43 walkie but you might want to read what PaulFertser said about this. rather try with some ousaged solution if available Jul 03 19:37:47 walkie: fyi the correct command line is mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy WiFi enabled Jul 03 19:37:55 PaulFertser: Actually, I was more interested into generic d-bus tutorial for starters :) Jul 03 19:37:55 reading gps via dbus in python wasn't too horrible Jul 03 19:38:04 / /org org/freesmartphone /org/freesmartphone/Usage Jul 03 19:38:26 this is ousaged output Jul 03 19:39:23 mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged Jul 03 19:39:30 walkie: i've provided you the full command line Jul 03 19:40:24 tschaka: found on forums? Oh shit. Jul 03 19:40:29 tschaka: no wonder it's wrong. Jul 03 19:41:35 well with odeviced it working Jul 03 19:42:02 walkie: fuck i provided the full command line that is working too, i've just checked it. Jul 03 19:42:22 walkie: and i explained why it is better, what more do you need? Jul 03 19:42:25 PaulFertser i'm not into all those things that much, so basically solution finding is googling and taking the first i can find which works. basically i'm using wifi with only one app at once, so i didnt see the side effects yet. however, for requestion CPU and Display to prevent dimming/suspend, i was using ousaged already (forums as well :P) Jul 03 19:43:02 oh, i am really happy with result Jul 03 19:43:24 walkie but there are downsides with the solution i provided. Jul 03 19:43:41 walkie i suggest you to stick with PaulFertser's solution, even b/c it is easy to change. Jul 03 19:44:00 tschaka: usually only illiterate people write to forums because web-forums suck comparing to regular mailing lists. So i'd take any solution found on forums with a grain of salt. A good example is ubuntu-forums. Most of the time absolutely useless senseless solutions. Jul 03 19:45:04 may be i am messing something, but i see nothing with wifi in ousaged Jul 03 19:45:20 walkie: Onec again: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy WiFi enabled Jul 03 19:45:27 PaulFertser i found quite a few solutions on ubuntu forums yet. basically i am googling, and if the mailing list archives can't provide me with something, what a forum can do, why would i ignore it? Jul 03 19:45:39 PaulFertser maybe he's using some older FSO, where this isnt implemented yet? Jul 03 19:46:03 tschaka: i'm not sure he's actually tried the full command line. Jul 03 19:46:29 oh, finally see the PaulFertser's exact command line Jul 03 19:46:45 walkie :) Jul 03 19:46:57 tschaka: as to forums, i've already tried to explain: usually forums are used by weirdly minded people (because forums are inferior comparing to MLs and they still choose forums) and therefore their advices quite often don't make sense. Jul 03 19:47:24 walkie: you know the trick needed to get wifi working with some APs? Jul 03 19:47:44 miss it when was switching desktops :) Jul 03 19:48:01 what trick? Jul 03 19:48:30 walkie: wmiconfig -i eth0 --maxperf Jul 03 19:48:51 PaulFertser yeah, but in that particular case i was using the FYP forums(since i happen to be able to read german), which are crowded by users who also use the ML. i guess that at least in the freerunner case, that are less weirdly minded ppl anyway :) Jul 03 19:48:59 walkie: eats power like mad but improves stability. With some APs you can't even properly communicate at all without it. Jul 03 19:49:15 with weak signal? Jul 03 19:49:18 PaulFertser whatever. what wmiconfig command, is this persistent? Jul 03 19:49:25 that* Jul 03 19:49:39 tschaka: :-/ Fyp people are strange, they do some weird fork of Debian instead of working with upstream... Or so i heard. Jul 03 19:50:09 tschaka: persistent only until you cut the power to wifi. That is either if you disable it or suspend FR (wifi is unpowered during suspend). Jul 03 19:51:05 tschaka: no relation to the weak signal. Just FR's wifi chip is buggy and it refuses to work with some APs at all. For some this trick helps, for others no known workaround exists. Most APs work without tricks though. Jul 03 19:51:08 azaghal: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td786643 Jul 03 19:51:12 well thanks all for help Jul 03 19:51:17 hi everyone Jul 03 19:51:20 that was my introduction to dbus+python Jul 03 19:51:34 Heheh Jul 03 19:51:49 got a prob with om2009/r5 - there is no sound during phone calls Jul 03 19:51:56 PaulFertser yeah, thats true, but there are forums sections about shr as well. to satisfy you however, i'm owning the FR since approx. one week, but been reading the ML regularly since december or something :) Jul 03 19:52:00 anyone else having this problem? Jul 03 19:52:00 Thanks for the linkie Jul 03 19:52:05 np Jul 03 19:52:07 tschaka: cool :D Jul 03 19:52:24 tschaka: do the SHR developers use that SHR forum? I doubt it. Jul 03 19:52:55 balanceofcowards: have you tried to search frameworkd log for oddities? Have you tried loading the scenario manually? Jul 03 19:53:10 PaulFertser dunno. But mickey lauer is there. and as far as i see, he's a pretty clever guy :P Jul 03 19:53:27 tschaka: he has to put with demands of his users. Probably. Jul 03 19:53:35 :) Jul 03 19:53:40 tschaka: and who says he's not weird? ;) Jul 03 19:54:14 PaulFertser hhe. weirdness is relative, and i guess in the view of like 95 % of the world population every openmoko user is weird :P Jul 03 19:54:31 which doesnt mean we are weird. Jul 03 19:54:46 maybe a bit. Jul 03 19:54:52 * SpeedEvil is wierd and proud. Jul 03 19:55:06 * SpeedEvil passes 'I'm wierd' badges round the channel. Jul 03 19:55:13 :) Jul 03 19:55:55 How many people have had courage to apply that hardware patch for #1024? Jul 03 19:56:27 PaulFertser: Nothing immediately suspicious in the logs - how do I activate the alsa state by hand? Jul 03 19:56:28 PaulFertser since you are here and seem to know an answer for everything, is there a way to turn off the built in keyboard for certain apps, maybe through starting them with a certian command or something? Jul 03 19:56:32 Oh, SpeedEvil is here. And my "english" sucks today badly. Also i'm too rude to end-users. /me switches to some other application to not disturb #openmoko inhabitants. Jul 03 19:57:54 balanceofcowards: alsactl -f /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/gsmhandset.state restore Jul 03 19:57:58 balanceofcowards: or smth like this. Jul 03 19:58:48 tschaka: i'm afraid not, it pops up every time there's a X object visible with a certain X hint, iirc Jul 03 19:59:30 tschaka: i use a cool little app that allows toggling the keyboard from command line, i binded it to the AUX key. Jul 03 19:59:32 PaulFertser: Hm, that worked indeed... any idea how I can trace down what is causing the state not to be loaded? Jul 03 19:59:43 PaulFertser ok, i read somewhere (ML!) that it is possible according to some fso dev iirc, but he didnt provide a solution. i'll investigate on this :) Jul 03 19:59:44 balanceofcowards: reading logs... Jul 03 19:59:55 PaulFertser cool. would you provide me this script? :P Jul 03 19:59:57 tschaka: are you talking about E's keyboard? Jul 03 20:00:01 PaulFertser ya Jul 03 20:00:15 PaulFertser illumes* Jul 03 20:00:21 tschaka: i'm not sure FSO guys know that much about illume internals Jul 03 20:00:38 PaulFertser i didnt find any command how to switch it on or of or anything. Jul 03 20:01:34 tschaka: i'm using information from this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg41669.html Jul 03 20:02:23 thanks! Jul 03 20:02:48 tschaka: you're welcome Jul 03 20:03:55 azaghal: it's easier than buzz fix. For buzz-fixing you need to replace 0402 R. For #1024 you need to replace 0805 cap. Jul 03 20:04:35 azaghal: otoh one needs to be careful to dismount the can. But it needs only patience. 5-10 minutes and the can is dismounted. The cap is conveniently located. Jul 03 20:06:08 azaghal: i'd estimate the amount of #1024-fix applied devices is ~20. Jul 03 20:06:16 Heheh Jul 03 20:06:30 azaghal: probably alphaone|gone knows better as he did the majority of fixes. Jul 03 20:06:57 Actually, I'd need to have my friend take a look at it (I'm more of a software guy). But it's nice to see that such a fix would bring _very_ nice battery lifetime, Jul 03 20:07:42 PaulFertser: You're very useful, btw, thanks ;) Jul 03 20:09:12 azaghal: welcome. Before dismounting the can you need to pull off the wlan card (it's glued, but not very hard). To dismount use pin-pointed knife and go in circles lifting the can a little bit in every point you can safely reach. After several rounds it will come off. Patience! Jul 03 20:10:09 Hm... Anyone can tell me how I can check Neo version? (A5/6/7 thing) Jul 03 20:10:38 azaghal: cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep Revision , look at the last 2 digits. Jul 03 20:10:42 Great Jul 03 20:11:09 60? That's A6 then, eh? Jul 03 20:11:13 azaghal: yes Jul 03 20:11:16 Drats Jul 03 20:58:46 Just for the record (no sound during calls): http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/443 Jul 03 21:13:38 hi on my host PC when i do a : ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 Jul 03 21:14:01 i always have SIOCSIFADDR: no devices of this sort Jul 03 21:14:12 try eth1 Jul 03 21:14:14 or eth2 Jul 03 21:14:18 on recent kernels its ethx Jul 03 21:14:21 or whatever your next eth dev is Jul 03 21:14:31 watch /var/log/messages and see what happens when you plug it in Jul 03 21:14:59 Jul 3 14:42:39 akui kernel: eth2: register usbnet at usb-0000:00:1d.2-2, CDC Ethernet Device Jul 03 21:15:04 it'll look like that Jul 03 21:15:14 ok thx you Jul 03 21:27:27 Heheh, opkg keeps segfaulting on shr when doing opkg upgrade :) Jul 03 21:30:32 swap Jul 03 21:42:53 azaghal: do you have a lot of packages to be upgraded? Jul 03 21:43:01 Yep Jul 03 21:43:10 opkg: fork failed Jul 03 21:43:15 That's what appears. Jul 03 21:43:18 Ah... Jul 03 21:43:24 azaghal: I ran into this problem 2 days ago. and read today that it is a bug in opkg Jul 03 21:43:34 I have swap, just to activate it ;) Jul 03 21:43:37 azaghal: when too many packages to upgrade, then it crashes Jul 03 21:44:15 azaghal: how did I fix it? I ran opkg upgrade with only a copy/paste sub-list of the complete list of upgradable packages Jul 03 21:44:42 azaghal: what is absolutely a pain, as I did it by hand. You should right away try to make it automatic Jul 03 21:45:33 onen|openBmap: It starts from the beginning? Jul 03 21:45:44 azaghal: ? Jul 03 21:46:15 I haven't paid much attention - does it fail and start the whole upgrade all over again? Jul 03 21:46:42 azaghal: I think so. running it multiple times always download the same packages :-( Jul 03 21:47:10 Argh Jul 03 21:47:28 azaghal: opkg list_upgradable gives you the list of packages to upgrade. I tried to make a loop calling opkg for every package Jul 03 21:47:36 * azaghal installs bash and prepares a one-liner Jul 03 21:47:48 azaghal: but the output is name - versionstring - descriptionstring Jul 03 21:48:12 azaghal: so either find a way to get list of names only, or use sed (for example) Jul 03 21:48:37 No problem, I like scripting. Jul 03 21:48:56 azaghal: :-) you may add openbmap-logger to the list of packages to install though ;-) Jul 03 21:49:22 * onen|openBmap is doing very subtle promotion of his project Jul 03 21:49:51 What does it do? Jul 03 21:50:38 azaghal: it logs GSM cells data together with GPS positionning www.openbmap.org Jul 03 21:50:57 azaghal: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenBmap Jul 03 21:53:14 azaghal: the idea is to build a free database of GSM data. we build on top of it a kind of map of GSM coverage. you may then get your position directly from the GSM cell you are connected to, using a local database on the phone (dBus prototype working) Jul 03 21:53:51 Hm... Could it be used for some kind of GPS cache? (I've seen that cache thing on bro's N810) Jul 03 21:54:35 Oooh, AGPLv3 :) Jul 03 21:55:23 azaghal: not sure what you mean... you could get your position from the GSM cell, and gives it to the GPS, to speed the get a fix Jul 03 21:55:58 that doesn't really speed it much... Jul 03 21:56:09 azaghal: yep, but only a part of it. my client for one, is not agpl ;-) Jul 03 21:56:18 but at least you have an approximate position quicker Jul 03 21:56:24 Is it GPL? Jul 03 21:57:10 mjr: it does not? when you have the ephemeris I understood it helps, and I understood from others that giving the gps an approximate position would speed it up... ? Jul 03 21:57:28 azaghal: gpl v... 3 IIRC Jul 03 21:57:39 azaghal: I speak of my client Jul 03 21:57:53 azaghal: server side is agpl AFAIK Jul 03 21:58:22 well, it helps to know what satellites to try and receive, but that doesn't require any great deal of accuracy, previous fix is mostly probably just as good a starting point... Jul 03 21:58:48 (also, I'm not sure if you can feed such data onto the chip, but that's just me) Jul 03 21:58:55 azaghal: gsm positionning will be less precise than gps, but with local db, you get instant positionning, for many application it will be precise enough, and gsm is always on, and does not consume much power Jul 03 21:59:32 mjr: cannot say, I am no specialist here, alphaone|gone would probably be, or DocScrutinizer Jul 03 22:00:11 azaghal: big G. provides a Web api, but well, I don't want to tell every time to them where I stand Jul 03 22:01:15 azaghal: mjr: and of course, you could get your position into buildings, and even on devices without gps at all :-) Jul 03 22:02:29 azaghal: mjr: if you are interested, packages are in shr and om2009, soon in Debian (waiting for it being pushed to feed) Jul 03 22:03:00 azaghal: mjr: feel free to ping me if you want to talk more about it, and of course feel free to use it ;-) Jul 03 22:03:15 azaghal: mjr: I need some sleep for now :-) Jul 03 22:03:31 Heheh, nighty onen|openBmap ;) Jul 03 22:03:41 I hope upgrade can take 50 packages... Jul 03 22:04:01 I'll switch to 10, just in case. Jul 03 22:22:38 How the heck is the alarm app called, it's driving me nuts -.- Jul 03 22:24:14 mjr: You can feed it approximate position Jul 03 22:25:24 And approx. position at last fix doesn't help if it was 6000km ago before you boarded the plane.. Jul 03 22:27:07 not really an issue most of the time, unless it makes the chip aggressively assume it's where you say it was (thus degrading performance noticably) Jul 03 22:27:31 umm, I mean, that would be bad even if it's not most of the time Jul 03 22:27:33 * mjr sleep too also Jul 03 22:28:15 anyway, approximate position into a building, yes, that can be nice... Jul 03 22:36:00 Btw, any sensible way to change e's keyboard bindings from console? Jul 03 22:48:25 I assume you're going to claim xmodmap isn't sensible enough for you? Jul 03 22:48:32 :) Jul 03 22:51:32 That's for remapping. Jul 03 22:51:53 But since E17 keeps its configuration in binary format... Jul 03 23:01:15 Ah... enlightenment_remote :) Jul 04 00:38:35 dos1, is opimd going to handle MMS? Jul 04 02:46:49 anyone here use the debug board before? Jul 04 02:50:58 _really_ basic question: do you connect it to the PC using the mini-usb port, or one of the two full-size usb ports? Jul 04 02:51:55 advanced question: what are J2, J3, and J4? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 04 02:59:57 2009