**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 05 02:59:58 2009
Jul 05 03:42:34 <slaxxer> any news doc?
Jul 05 08:03:33 <Defiant-> http://www.hostarea.de/server-05/Mai-13539fbbc6.gif
Jul 05 08:07:22 <PaulFertser> Defiant-: ROFL
Jul 05 08:17:44 <Defiant-> aah found the homepage http://www.theisnort.com/isnort.html and lol who is paying for that?
Jul 05 08:31:27 <PaulFertser> Defiant-: you know i once found a comparision of behaviour of cocain-addicted monkeys to heroin-addicted. That of cocain-addicted was considerably worse. Can't find a prooflink atm.
Jul 05 08:38:35 <azaghal> You know that Neo has become the world's first Free Software vibrator as well, right? :)
Jul 05 08:42:10 <Defiant-> .o0()
Jul 05 08:45:17 <CVirus> This channel used to have 400+ users :-(
Jul 05 08:48:28 <Guest76203> I guess that isa good thing
Jul 05 08:51:48 <beer__> unless 400 is not enough
Jul 05 08:58:16 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jul 05 10:08:43 <PBeck> hi
Jul 05 10:18:36 <beer__> hi
Jul 05 13:16:13 <PaulFertser> GTA01 users! I need your feedback! What are you currently using to estimate battery charge level? Were you satisfied with bogus linear scale from .24 times? Do you have better ideas?
Jul 05 13:16:59 <SpeedEvil> I had a patch
Jul 05 13:17:02 <SpeedEvil> but I lost it
Jul 05 13:17:19 <SpeedEvil> it was a simple interpretation of battvolts to % for APM
Jul 05 13:17:20 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: a decent one? ;)
Jul 05 13:17:28 <SpeedEvil> moderately
Jul 05 13:17:34 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: linear scale?
Jul 05 13:17:36 <SpeedEvil> no
Jul 05 13:17:58 <PaulFertser> Where did you get the information about discharge curve?
Jul 05 13:18:05 <PaulFertser> Measured yourself?
Jul 05 13:18:23 <SpeedEvil> http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_packs/Li_Ion/Lithium_ion_tech.html
Jul 05 13:18:26 <SpeedEvil> or similar
Jul 05 13:18:56 <SpeedEvil> plus I think a impedence term from measuring voltage during vibrator - I forget the details
Jul 05 13:19:35 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: but you know that implementing such things in kernel space (except for apm emulation) is considered to be wrong by power_supply_class designers?
Jul 05 13:19:50 <SpeedEvil> meh
Jul 05 13:20:15 <SpeedEvil> It's a trivial 5 point linear function, with interpolation
Jul 05 13:21:02 <SpeedEvil> It was a couple of dozen lines of code.
Jul 05 13:23:18 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: the policy is to expose from power_supply only the values measured (or read from control chip) directly. Still i think we have to implement it as userspace got used to have some estimate.
Jul 05 13:23:44 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: great thanks for the graphs!
Jul 05 13:25:53 <SpeedEvil> All li-ions pretty much follow those. As the cells age, the ESR rises,and the '0.5C' graph may come to look more like the 1C graph
Jul 05 13:26:41 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: do i understand it right that 1C current for 1000mAh cell is 1000mA?
Jul 05 13:26:43 <SpeedEvil> Having said that - even a linear interpretation from 4.1-3.5 or so isn't horrible. 
Jul 05 13:26:44 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jul 05 13:26:51 <Karla> www.moneypenet.piczo.com
Jul 05 13:26:51 <Karla> www.moneypenet.piczo.com
Jul 05 13:27:03 <SpeedEvil> 1C = discharge in one hour - 5C = discharge in 1/5 hours
Jul 05 13:27:22 <SpeedEvil> (nominally - it's less than that as higher current has more losses)
Jul 05 13:28:04 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: ok, got it.
Jul 05 13:28:30 <Karla> 4www.moneypenet.piczo.com
Jul 05 13:28:30 <Karla> 4www.moneypenet.piczo.com
Jul 05 15:38:39 <|Marco|> what's happened to dbus in latest shr? what's the new "method" of usage ? I need to do some recoding on a few of my applications, but I can't get far without knowing how it's done :/
Jul 05 15:45:22 <lysgaard> How do i autoload a module at startup?
Jul 05 16:12:26 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: probably it has support to load modules mentioned in /etc/modules
Jul 05 16:13:24 <PaulFertser> lysgaard: or put a file in /etc/modules.d
Jul 05 16:14:44 <lysgaard> PaulFertser: Ah, ok
Jul 05 16:44:31 <PaulFertser> Psi_: hey, ayt?
Jul 05 20:13:20 <TeNoVi> Hi! Is there anyone with experience with tangogps logs in google earth? I have got the log into google earth, but when I try to create a tour, it is just jumpy and annoying. Is there a good solution?
Jul 05 20:15:40 <PaulFertser> TeNoVi: yes, convert logs to gpx first
Jul 05 20:15:52 <PaulFertser> TeNoVi: tangogps has a script to do that, convert2gpx
Jul 05 20:17:17 <TeNoVi> PaulFertser, Thanks... I will try that one.
Jul 05 20:23:42 <TeNoVi> PaulFertser, Hmm. The tour is still bumping around. Hight. The track seem fine
Jul 05 20:25:24 <TeNoVi> PaulFertser, Do you know if it is possible to manualy adjust the logfile to be x meters above what it original is?
Jul 05 20:25:36 <TeNoVi> PaulFertser, And constant height
Jul 05 20:26:08 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: SpeedEvil: discharge curve:=batlog.txt in ppl.om/joerg
Jul 05 20:26:54 <PaulFertser> TeNoVi: i think yes, just look into the file and you'll see it's simple xml format. Some sed script should do.
Jul 05 20:27:39 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: are you sure that's a better source of information than this: http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_packs/Li_Ion/Li_Ion_DiscGph.JPG
Jul 05 20:27:57 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: SpeedEvil: impedance check isn't helping for LiIon
Jul 05 20:28:37 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: it's for *our* cell, so I guess I don't even have to compare to your source
Jul 05 20:29:46 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: but it's a percentage estimate by bq27000 which we don't trust much.
Jul 05 20:30:41 <DocScrutinizer> *I* never said I don't _trust_ CC, I only stated I know about it's limitations and quirks
Jul 05 20:31:33 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i don't trust it. And in fact all gta01 users lived with simple linear approximation which is completely bogus.
Jul 05 20:32:29 <DocScrutinizer> that's no point to reduce  authoritative correctness of batlog.txt
Jul 05 20:33:22 <PaulFertser> Sorry 
Jul 05 20:34:28 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: but when we last discussed it we agreed that it considers 0% is the voltage where GSM stops working. And it's wrong.
Jul 05 20:35:45 <DocScrutinizer> that's one of the quirks, but I consider the calculation between C@100% and C@0% rather accurate nevertheless
Jul 05 20:37:46 <DocScrutinizer> I.E. you can use the V/C curve between those two points for a highly accurate input data to create your estimating polynom
Jul 05 20:38:40 <DocScrutinizer> even if you like to assume the 0%-point in fact is when bat cell still holds 10% capacity
Jul 05 20:40:41 <DocScrutinizer> which is mere definition issue btw, as we first need to agree on what means 0% actual capacity. Does it mean "gsm ceases opperation", or does it mean "system needs shutdown NOW", or "system actually fails completely immediately"
Jul 05 20:41:22 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i'd say 0% is where one should shutdown to not harm the battery.
Jul 05 20:41:50 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: and tbh i'm not going to use any high-order polynoms for approximation, i think 4-segment linear would work as well.
Jul 05 20:41:54 <DocScrutinizer> all this is about maybe 10% of C, so for a 5-granularity estimation it's rather pointless
Jul 05 20:42:52 <DocScrutinizer> (high order) I agree a LUT is best solution here
Jul 05 20:44:15 <DocScrutinizer> you can have as many support-points (aka records) in the lookup table as you like and feel is sensible, and do linear interpolation between these
Jul 05 20:44:32 <PaulFertser> Yeah, exactly the plan
Jul 05 20:44:46 <PaulFertser> Though raster says it's kind-of-stupid to spend time on gta01 ;)
Jul 05 20:45:22 <DocScrutinizer> (harm to battery) won't work out. Our system stops all activity on higher voltage than bat would start to take harm
Jul 05 20:46:25 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: SpeedEvil's site shows 2.8 as the lower limit.
Jul 05 20:46:50 <PaulFertser> Or even 3.0
Jul 05 20:47:02 <DocScrutinizer> that's sys limit afaik. Our cell has 2V5 lower limit
Jul 05 20:47:25 <DocScrutinizer> that's my point ;-)
Jul 05 20:47:31 <PaulFertser> Hm, i thought all lipol cells are alike
Jul 05 20:47:53 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: can we get an official documentation from manufacturer please? ;)
Jul 05 20:48:05 <DocScrutinizer> didn't someone publish the cell's datasheet?
Jul 05 20:48:13 <PaulFertser> Hm, i gotta look it up.
Jul 05 20:54:37 <PaulFertser> Googling SANYO UF653450S datasheet doesn't give much to me.
Jul 05 21:00:22 <SpeedEvil> All li-po cells are - more or less - alike.
Jul 05 21:00:39 <SpeedEvil> Anyway - in any case - if the cutoff is 3V or 2.5V is pretty irrelevant
Jul 05 21:00:53 <SpeedEvil> you have almost no energy available between those thresholds.
Jul 05 21:01:10 <SpeedEvil> especially with a not new battery.
Jul 05 21:11:17 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: well, somewhat. Yes
Jul 05 21:12:30 <DocScrutinizer> anyway google for PACK950925
Jul 05 21:13:10 <DocScrutinizer> though google might miss the very recent new files ;-)
Jul 05 21:13:40 <DocScrutinizer> (and yes, I know that's 02)
Jul 05 21:16:12 <DocScrutinizer> (2) Discharge End Voltage : 2.75 V
Jul 05 21:16:29 <DocScrutinizer> P.64
Jul 05 21:18:00 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: you noticed UL? HTH 
Jul 05 21:19:15 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: looking, thanks :)
Jul 05 21:26:25 <daniel32708> hi guys!
Jul 05 21:26:32 <daniel32708> one question
Jul 05 21:26:52 <daniel32708> do you know where on the internet i can find the capacitor for the A6  buzz fix?
Jul 05 21:26:57 <daniel32708> what store carries it?
Jul 05 21:27:37 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: btw http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-February/thread.html#1009 and other threads subject:*suspend* might be very interesting for you
Jul 05 21:28:05 <SpeedEvil> daniel32708: wheree are you
Jul 05 21:28:08 <DocScrutinizer> daniel32708: where do you live?
Jul 05 21:28:20 <SpeedEvil> farnell.com digikey.com
Jul 05 21:28:45 <daniel32708> Costa Rica, but i have a shipping company which will ship anything that i buy in internet us stores to my country
Jul 05 21:28:51 <daniel32708> so for that matter i live in the US
Jul 05 21:29:33 <daniel32708> i would really appreciate any help
Jul 05 21:29:38 <DocScrutinizer> too bad, daniel32708. I won't send components neither to CostaRica NOR TO us
Jul 05 21:29:43 <daniel32708> also, what exact caspacitor should i get?
Jul 05 21:29:47 <DocScrutinizer> oops capslock
Jul 05 21:29:58 <SpeedEvil> digikey, then
Jul 05 21:30:14 <DocScrutinizer> daniel 100uF tantal 5V
Jul 05 21:30:14 <daniel32708> where do u send components doc?
Jul 05 21:30:28 <DocScrutinizer> EU
Jul 05 21:30:38 <daniel32708> i see
Jul 05 21:31:19 <daniel32708> ok, so i will go into digikey
Jul 05 21:31:24 <daniel32708> i type in "100uF tantal 5V"
Jul 05 21:31:33 <daniel32708> but then a bunch of different configurations come up
Jul 05 21:31:38 <daniel32708> can u guys pls help me?
Jul 05 21:31:50 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil will help. I'm off for a while
Jul 05 21:32:18 <daniel32708> ok, thx!
Jul 05 21:33:23 <SpeedEvil> you want a physically small cap, that matches that
Jul 05 21:33:39 <SpeedEvil> have you done SMD soldering before?
Jul 05 21:34:12 <daniel32708> i havent, but my friend has
Jul 05 21:34:24 <daniel32708> he will help me
Jul 05 21:36:14 <daniel32708> if u go here http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&WT.mc_id=hp_go_button&KeyWords=100uF+tantal+5V&x=0&y=0   there u will see the different capacitors of that type
Jul 05 21:36:17 <daniel32708> thats what confuses me
Jul 05 21:36:39 <SpeedEvil> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=511-1498-1-ND
Jul 05 21:36:44 <SpeedEvil> should suit for example
Jul 05 21:37:05 <daniel32708> great
Jul 05 21:37:12 <daniel32708> so u reccommend me that one?
Jul 05 21:38:39 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, that one should work fine.
Jul 05 21:38:49 <daniel32708> great
Jul 05 21:39:08 <SpeedEvil> It's thin enough - 1.1mm height - that it won't obscure the case. It's not too expensive, ...
Jul 05 21:39:29 <daniel32708> yeah
Jul 05 21:40:12 <daniel32708> and that is the only component that i need right?
Jul 05 21:40:17 <daniel32708> plus the soldering of course...
Jul 05 21:41:03 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: for buzz fix you'll need a 0402 2.4k resistor as well.
Jul 05 21:42:40 <daniel32708> paul, i am a newbb, could u pls point me to the link in  digikey :)
Jul 05 21:42:49 <daniel32708> of that resistor
Jul 05 21:44:12 <SpeedEvil> Any http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P2.4KJCT-ND forex
Jul 05 21:44:18 <DocScrutinizer> 2k2
Jul 05 21:44:35 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: ah, you still here :D
Jul 05 21:44:50 <DocScrutinizer> sporadically
Jul 05 21:45:21 <SpeedEvil> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=311-2.2KJRCT-ND
Jul 05 21:45:22 <SpeedEvil> even
Jul 05 21:45:35 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i'm reading that thread but it's about gta02 mostly. And it proves that hardware is needed to investigate actual power consumption problems.
Jul 05 21:46:33 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * recbadf2618de 10/fsodeviced/src/ (bin/main.vala plugins/alsa_audio/plugin.vala): fsodeviced: don't fail, if no scenarios are available
Jul 05 21:48:03 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i wonder what's your opinion about ALLEN_CHANG
Jul 05 21:51:10 <DocScrutinizer> well, he's TPE EE
Jul 05 21:53:07 <daniel32708> so guys which is better 1- http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P2.4KJCT-ND   or    2 -http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=311-2.2KJRCT-ND
Jul 05 21:55:37 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: listen to what Doc says, and he recommends 2.2.
Jul 05 21:56:44 <SpeedEvil> the second one
Jul 05 21:57:52 <daniel32708> thx guys!
Jul 05 23:15:37 <Psi_> PaulFertser: yeah, im here
Jul 05 23:15:56 <Psi_> been sick for the last week
Jul 05 23:18:47 <DocScrutinizer> Psi_: paul went to sleep
Jul 05 23:21:25 <Psi_> not supprising, we're probably on opposite sides of the earth
Jul 05 23:24:36 <DocScrutinizer> Psi_: hmm, USA?
Jul 05 23:24:47 <Psi_> not sure where he is
Jul 05 23:24:49 <Psi_> im in NZ
Jul 05 23:24:58 <DocScrutinizer> lol, yes
Jul 05 23:29:05 <[Rui]> PT here
Jul 05 23:29:55 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rd7cd1110c67f 10/misc-vapi/tests/ (4 files): misc-vapi: tests: prepare for testalsapcm
Jul 05 23:29:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9db8a912e70f 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/alsa_audio/plugin.vala: fsodeviced: alsa_audio: use quarks to transfer from/to strings
Jul 06 00:01:40 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rfabe53eed2aa 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/alsa_audio/plugin.vala: fsodeviced: fix concurrent playing of multiple sounds
Jul 06 00:58:57 <slaxxer> what is it
Jul 06 00:59:19 <slaxxer> shr-unstable latest work?
Jul 06 01:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> 20090703 here
Jul 06 02:01:33 <mjr> so, without bothering to study the matter myself;  Milepost GCC, our friend?
Jul 06 02:07:45 <DocScrutinizer> mjr: errr... ?
Jul 06 02:12:40 <mjr> http://lwn.net/Articles/339852/
Jul 06 02:18:32 <DocScrutinizer> well, seems a little like voodoo
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 06 02:59:56 2009