**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 06 02:59:56 2009 Jul 06 04:08:39 happy birthday freerunner Jul 06 05:56:14 Psi_: are you well now and ready for hacking? ;) Jul 06 05:56:29 Psi_: i'm in Moscow, Russia Jul 06 06:49:53 good morning Jul 06 09:13:46 PaulFertser: yep Jul 06 09:17:59 Psi_: NZ is some kind of a dreamland for me. I imagine there's lots of good bicycle paths suitable for a road racing biking, sunny weather everyday and everybody understands english :D Jul 06 09:21:05 well you're right about everyone understanding english Jul 06 09:21:16 i wouldnt say we have a lot of cycle paths Jul 06 09:21:24 but they are working on it Jul 06 09:22:18 problem with the ones we do have is quite a few are Bus & Cycle lanes, and the buses are out to kill you Jul 06 09:22:49 Psi_: in Moscow there're no dedicated lanes at all, we move along with the traffic. Jul 06 09:22:53 sometimes i wonder if being a bad driver is a requirement to drive a bus Jul 06 09:23:49 weather in nz is quite strange Jul 06 09:24:19 most of the time its fine but can change from sunny to raining in and hour and then back again the next hour Jul 06 09:25:37 It's ok then :) Jul 06 09:26:13 much better in my opinion to austrailian weather tho, which is quite humid Jul 06 09:26:39 * Psi_ hates sunny humid weather Jul 06 09:27:31 doesn't snow where i am tho, and i like snow Jul 06 09:30:32 im in Auckland city and its only snowed here once back in 1939 Jul 06 09:30:44 snows lots in other parts of nz tho Jul 06 09:32:15 I think i should plan a trip to NZ someday... Or even to find some job and spend a year. Jul 06 09:34:26 Psi_: does your experience confirm that turning off backlight on gta01 doesn't impact battery life considerably? Jul 06 09:34:50 id have to run some tests Jul 06 09:36:15 you thinking that power is being wasted somewhere when the backlight is off? Jul 06 09:37:30 Psi_: yeah, at least that's what josch's results suggest. Jul 06 09:38:32 Psi_: good thing about it is that you can use builtin current sensor (0.22R shunt actually) because the device is running. Jul 06 09:38:33 do you think this wastage only happens when the phone is in suspend with backlight off? Jul 06 09:38:58 Psi_: no, i'm talking about idle but not suspended state. Jul 06 09:39:02 hm.. Jul 06 09:39:15 well i can definitly measure current with and without backlight Jul 06 09:39:17 Psi_: you should get >10hrs without backlight and screen off. Jul 06 09:39:21 hi Jul 06 09:39:54 Psi_: but it's not the case currently, something wrong is going on. Jul 06 09:39:55 ok, well my phone has been in my pocket for the last 6 hours Jul 06 09:40:00 i just put it back on charge Jul 06 09:40:28 Psi_: you mean your gta01 survives more than 6 hours without fully depleting the battery? Jul 06 09:40:37 it was in suspend Jul 06 09:40:57 its charging back up now, when its charged ill try run it flat without suspend Jul 06 09:41:04 but with backlight off and see how long it lasts Jul 06 09:41:41 Psi_: suspend doesn't count. You've already told me that you got ~40 or ~20 mA in suspend. So 24hrs is a reasonable estimate for a suspended device. And you don't need to run it flat, just measuring current for some time is enough. Jul 06 09:41:46 yeah Jul 06 09:41:59 ok Jul 06 09:42:18 do you want me to measure the current using its built in shunt or DMM? Jul 06 09:42:35 Psi_: also josch provided me with logs i fail to understand. The consumed current fluctuates like mad without any reason (and that is with gps and gsm off) Jul 06 09:43:23 Psi_: it'd be best to have both internal and external measurements to compare and to evaluate reliability of internal shunt data. Jul 06 09:43:25 PaulFertser: you mean in sspend? Jul 06 09:43:33 suspend Jul 06 09:43:58 SpeedEvil: no, i mean while running Jul 06 09:44:06 look at powertop - though it won't run. Jul 06 09:44:40 Unless you have no sources of wakeups at all - you will get the CPU waking up at random intervals to service wifi, or ... Jul 06 09:44:57 not on gta01 you wont :( Jul 06 09:45:10 Then you get the normal periodic, or semi-periodic timer ticks Jul 06 09:45:19 SpeedEvil: here're josch's results: 372 543 404 458 etc... I don't see how it can be explained. That's on idle system with gsm never turned on (and gps too). Jul 06 09:45:36 y0 Jul 06 09:45:43 what kind of timeframe where those results taken in Jul 06 09:45:49 Psi_: every second Jul 06 09:46:02 which if you don't have a meter that either averages over - say - 30s, or can sample fast enough to catch the peaks, you're screwed Jul 06 09:46:05 probably need to average it, cpu could have been doing anything Jul 06 09:46:13 Psi_: without doing anything with the device. Idle bare-bone debian install. Jul 06 09:46:23 hm.. thats odd Jul 06 09:46:27 Psi_: not on the order of 100s of mA! Jul 06 09:46:31 yeah Jul 06 09:46:32 yes Jul 06 09:46:40 on the order of 100s of mA Jul 06 09:46:50 If it's just reading using the CPU Jul 06 09:46:57 hangon Jul 06 09:47:06 this is GTA01 - so it can't be reading current Jul 06 09:47:19 o0 Jul 06 09:47:20 SpeedEvil: it measures voltage drop across 0.22 shunt. Jul 06 09:47:35 Or IIRC there was a current sensor - but it was _hopelessly_ noisy Jul 06 09:47:36 SpeedEvil: reads it from pcf50606 Jul 06 09:48:32 I'll try to get my 01 up and instrumented today. (scope) Jul 06 09:49:08 SpeedEvil: ok, that might as well explain it. It takes 22mV to make the current measurement 100mA more than it's in reality. Jul 06 09:49:36 yeah, im trying to setup a proper test bed so i can easy run gta01 from the lab psu with scope attached for reading current Jul 06 09:49:50 been too busy/sick so far, Jul 06 09:50:11 max_posedon: hey, how's the conference? Lacked internet access i assume? Jul 06 09:50:35 hm.. few new shr unstable gta01 images out, anyone know if they are good? Jul 06 09:51:18 Psi_: they don't fit internal nand Jul 06 09:51:28 thats fine, i dont use it Jul 06 09:51:30 :) Jul 06 09:51:35 Psi_: no kernel changes since then. Jul 06 09:52:15 i noticed you posted a patch to the list about fixing the uV uA units Jul 06 09:53:04 Psi_: yeah. Not that it helps much. I'm going to prepare a patch to provide some kind of remaining charge estimate (as suggested by SpeedEvil) probably even today's evening. Jul 06 09:53:32 nice Jul 06 09:53:55 PaulFertser, hi!, great! internet present, but, I just find more interesting to speak with people rather than chatting) Jul 06 09:54:05 Psi_: not that nice because it's against the power_supply specs. But gta01 is unique, so we'll have an exception ;) Jul 06 09:54:18 yeah Jul 06 09:54:26 GTA01 is not unique Jul 06 09:54:32 not really any other way to do it tho is there? Jul 06 09:54:32 max_posedon: cool, i hope you enjoyed it. Jul 06 09:54:49 The right way to do this would be to make the power supply specs know about li-ion discharge and stuff. Jul 06 09:55:08 SpeedEvil: i'm not sure it belongs to the kernelspace. Jul 06 09:55:43 yep, most interesting was speaking with Nokia insider, I can't say what about we speak, but nokia really do much for us Jul 06 09:55:48 userspace uploads a few point linear graph is probably sane Jul 06 09:55:58 max_posedon: us == whom? Jul 06 09:56:26 all people who want linux on phones and different embedded devices Jul 06 09:56:27 SpeedEvil: i'd really prefer a library, much more flexible approach with less downsides. Jul 06 09:56:53 for example they are main omap3530(beagleboard) hackers Jul 06 09:58:48 max_posedon: why don't they release the schematics for N800? Jul 06 09:59:27 because of bisness issues I think, I don't know Jul 06 09:59:53 no matter how much people within a company want to open things up, companies themselves still tend to cling to the close, restrict, deny mentality Jul 06 10:00:12 max_posedon: also i very much dislike the story about how they treated OM qtopia devs. Jul 06 10:00:14 PaulFertser, Here you can find start link for many fotos and few reports about conf http://lvee.org/ru Jul 06 10:00:39 PaulFertser, its a big company, they can't be white or black Jul 06 10:00:56 but I like that they have many "white" parts. Jul 06 10:08:01 max_posedon: why do they build a custom distribution instead of contributing directly to Debian? Jul 06 10:09:23 because of debian armel doesn't optimized for specific devices? Jul 06 10:09:37 because of they have proprietary parts and can't remove them? Jul 06 10:10:53 because debian isn't cross compiled disto? (debian use scratchbox = qemu <- its a pita!) Jul 06 10:11:15 ok, maemo still use scratchbox too) Jul 06 10:12:13 max_posedon: proprietary parts! That skype shit they ship with maemo drives me mad. Jul 06 10:12:36 sure, but, they want do money Jul 06 10:12:55 I understand them, and I prefer this status, than symbian Jul 06 10:13:05 max_posedon: maemo is very much like debian but it's a fork nevertheless. Unnecessary fork, that's quite uncooperative on nokia's part to do that imho. Jul 06 10:13:32 problem with maemo disto that they started do it long time ago Jul 06 10:13:52 they can't fix all such stuff immediatle Jul 06 10:14:20 max_posedon: you know what really upsets me? Duplicating efforts. People in their spare time duplicate someone's work just because some assholes do not know how to share properly. Jul 06 10:15:05 Do you know what really upsets me? Death of openmoko telephony project. Jul 06 10:15:42 I don't want same for nokia, because after this we will have only motorolla crap. Jul 06 10:16:16 I bet you next diveces will be more open than previous, not 100% but still. Jul 06 10:16:17 max_posedon: you're talking like OM inc. screwed it because they were too open. Jul 06 10:17:44 nope, I just want to tell you, that only nokia (as company) works now on open software for mobile phones. Jul 06 10:17:59 and if they became 100% open right now, that can die. Jul 06 10:18:05 *they* Jul 06 10:18:34 Linux Maemo project will closed, and what people will do next? Jul 06 10:19:09 max_posedon: will the next nokia device be as good for custom projects as gta02? I bet not. Because they suck at being "open". I don't need "openness", fuckit. I want freedom. And nokia is never about freedom all they say is "open", "open", free of charge skype and shit. Jul 06 10:20:11 so, just don't buy their next device. But you doesn't allowed to say crap about this company because of they have few proprietary parts. Jul 06 10:20:37 You are developer, I'm developer, we are stupid speaking about moneys. Jul 06 10:20:48 max_posedon: nokia will die if they open maemo? Come on, they are a big player. They can afford making whatever they like because shitloads of lemmings will still buy those shiny UIQ cameraphones and stuff. Jul 06 10:20:55 * SpeedEvil misread that a monkeys, and was confused. Jul 06 10:21:05 not nokia will die, but maemo project Jul 06 10:21:15 SpeedEvil: same for me, what monkeys? :))) Jul 06 10:21:30 max_posedon: they can sponsor the maemo project and even not notice it. Jul 06 10:21:31 and maemo project death will be really bad, very bad, for all OSS Jul 06 10:21:43 * SpeedEvil wonders about moblin Jul 06 10:22:02 max_posedon: really? What maemo did for the free software? Omap support for the kernel? Well, it's one good thing. What else? Jul 06 10:22:35 many different patches in *all* software that they use/will use on their linux devices Jul 06 10:22:43 from X till upstart Jul 06 10:22:46 max_posedon: and btw i saw many TI employees sending patches for OMAP, they were not from nokia. Jul 06 10:23:51 sure, but still. If you dislike this company its you choise, I just doesn't understand people who do this, just because they do software 90% open, not 100. Jul 06 10:24:30 max_posedon: i fail to see how maemo is successfull. If it was the case, we'd have a really good pim solution (with syncing and everything) for FR already. Jul 06 10:24:50 max_posedon: and a "good" (web2.0-capable) web-browser. Jul 06 10:25:19 hm.. ok, I just postpone this discussion until next maemo device. Jul 06 10:25:52 max_posedon: ha, you're waiting for N810-like but in a smaller form-factor and GSM-equipped. But it doesn't prove anything. Jul 06 10:26:35 software and style of openness of such device will prove much Jul 06 10:26:38 max_posedon: really, tell me what benefits can i have on my FR because maemo is open? Jul 06 10:27:00 you can run maemo? you can use clutter? Jul 06 10:27:12 max_posedon: ofoned folks already showed their degree of opennes. Jul 06 10:27:49 if you judge only but one project which done by 3 person from nokia, its your position. Jul 06 10:27:55 max_posedon: i don't see benefits in running maemo on FR, can you enlighten me? Jul 06 10:28:28 different X apps, from weather app till some other interested stuff Jul 06 10:28:42 I haven't n8x0 device, not very familar with it. Jul 06 10:28:48 max_posedon: why nobody is using it on FR if it's so cool? Jul 06 10:28:59 why nobody? Jul 06 10:29:07 google Mer project Jul 06 10:29:16 max_posedon: ok, let it be "nobody". Jul 06 10:29:44 ha-ha, you for example doesn't use shr, because of you debian user (if I'm not mistaken) Jul 06 10:29:55 max_posedon: so? Jul 06 10:29:59 does it mean, that you think that shr project is useless? Jul 06 10:30:31 I really want have mix of different frameworks on FR Jul 06 10:30:35 max_posedon: no, but i see shr users and developers everyday. I see that it's being actively used and developed. Why don't i see those running mer? Jul 06 10:30:39 but I understand that it require time. Jul 06 10:30:58 max_posedon: come on, there's more interest in android shit than in mer. Jul 06 10:31:00 because you don't visited maemo irc channel? Jul 06 10:31:35 maemo Mer isn't about telephone at all. that haven't nothing to do here. Jul 06 10:31:36 max_posedon: hah, all FR owners are gathered here, we have common kernel after all! Jul 06 10:32:04 max_posedon: many people don't use FR as a phone and would be happy to use it as a good PDA. Jul 06 10:32:07 but Mer project doesn't connected with kernel at all. Jul 06 10:32:50 Aha, it's like mer users are so intelligent that they can easily tell kernel problems from userspace ones. Jul 06 10:34:02 if there no any person who work on kernel, who work on FSO. If they just fixes maemo bugs, when they runned it on FR, what they can do here? Jul 06 10:35:07 max_posedon: the fact maemo required to be forked to be made useful tells much already. Jul 06 10:35:35 I'm not sure that Mer "is fork" sorry, I haven't such info. Jul 06 10:36:22 also, maemo (hildon?) is just one of their projects. Jul 06 10:36:57 I still love any company who pay for OSS developement, even only 50% of devs do anything good for all. Jul 06 10:37:33 max_posedon: ok, found http://lwn.net/Articles/322693/ reading. Jul 06 10:39:19 "Nokia ... which ... cooperated fully ... and even provide firmware images for closed-source drivers" What an amazing example of generousity! Jul 06 10:47:35 I don't care about binary firmware, it prevented me from buying n8x0, but all commits in OSS projects from @nokia.com prevent me from think about Nokia as about good company. I may be never will buy their device, but attitute will be good until they stop maemo project. Jul 06 10:47:52 *prevent think as about bad* Jul 06 10:48:59 binary drivers often mean 'stop working as soon as company loses interest' Jul 06 10:49:14 max_posedon: i still fail to see how maemo project is beneficial to the free software community. Jul 06 10:49:40 max_posedon: yes, it runs on n800 and n810, but that seems to be all. Jul 06 10:50:37 max_posedon: i've just /j #mer and asked about FR users. Nobody answered yet. Probably that's because it's so cool they have no problems or need to discuss anything. Jul 06 10:51:59 PaulFertser, so, I'm asking you google all their commits to OSS projects, if you want be more objective. Jul 06 10:52:40 max_posedon: do you have a good recipe please? Because if i fail to find it you'll say that's because i'm biased ;) Jul 06 10:52:40 I don't want change your opinion, I just want you understand mine, even if you think that I'm wrong :). Jul 06 10:53:17 max_posedon: btw, i don't care much about "OSS" projects. Jul 06 11:37:30 max_posedon: i'll send you a discussion with Mer guys later. For me it's obvious from their words if Nokia worth working with or not. Jul 06 11:38:29 but I remind you that maemo is part of all people working on Linux support. But interview still interesting. Jul 06 11:40:25 max_posedon: i know about bluez and some gtk contributions but what else? Jul 06 11:41:04 pure that I'm not maemo user, and don't know much about all stuff inside maemo. Jul 06 11:41:15 (and not even developer who like gtk) Jul 06 11:44:04 * Q-Master had seen N800 8) Jul 06 11:48:41 PaulFertser, [back to LVEE], I sent you my final presentation variant, also will notify you when video will be avaible. Jul 06 11:49:14 max_posedon: cool, i'll wait. Can you send me pdf/ps variant please? Jul 06 11:49:20 done Jul 06 11:49:32 (in tar.bz2 you will fine pdf and tex and images) Jul 06 11:58:24 anyone know how to have an animated gif appear along with the incoming call dialog? Jul 06 11:58:42 in hackable1, forgot to mention Jul 06 12:43:05 good day! Jul 06 13:04:27 hi all Jul 06 14:27:28 hi Jul 06 14:27:33 I have a question Jul 06 14:27:49 If I got Moko9 do I flash moko11 or moko10 previous Jul 06 14:27:50 ? Jul 06 14:29:40 You should flash moko11 Jul 06 14:30:12 I got gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko9-veta1 Jul 06 14:30:20 wtf is moko9-11, what have I missed? Jul 06 14:30:42 okay, flashing Moko10beta Jul 06 14:30:47 args Jul 06 14:30:53 beta I meant not veta Jul 06 14:31:52 max_posedon, you mean flashing Moko10 before Moko11 is not necessary? Jul 06 14:32:09 no, I mean you should flash moko11 right now) Jul 06 14:35:12 okay Jul 06 14:49:08 does I understand it correct, that I need only one partition for this flash file on my usd? Jul 06 14:56:50 serdar: you need to dd the usd image "as is" to the device. It'll create 2 partitions on it iirc. Jul 06 15:04:13 okay Jul 06 15:11:54 Moko11 now. nothing left I guess? Jul 06 15:15:47 now you want install shr-unstable Jul 06 16:26:45 spydon: see wiki gsm_flashing page Jul 06 18:52:14 hi Jul 06 18:52:26 I got a problem with masquerading Jul 06 18:52:46 but I'm not sure why because iptables are working well Jul 06 18:57:02 I can't even ping any google ip but ssh works fine Jul 06 18:57:05 iptables on the host? Jul 06 18:57:12 ssh to wwhat Jul 06 19:04:19 Darkas: are you referring to iptables on the phone? Jul 06 19:04:39 SM2k, no to them on my pc Jul 06 19:05:05 so you're using the pc as a gateway and using usb networking? Jul 06 19:05:07 they don't tell my any error messages but it doesn't work Jul 06 19:05:11 yes Jul 06 19:05:24 and you're clearly aware that icmp isn't the same protocol as tcp or usb? Jul 06 19:05:51 run this line as root "iptables -A FORWARD -j LOG" Jul 06 19:06:01 then run "tail -f /var/log/messages" Jul 06 19:06:16 and try your ping again Jul 06 19:06:24 run those lines on the pc btw Jul 06 19:07:32 no output in /var/log/messages Jul 06 19:07:45 fwiw a couple lines such as: Jul 06 19:07:45 -A FORWARD -o usb+ -j ACCEPT Jul 06 19:07:45 -A FORWARD -i usb+ -j ACCEPT Jul 06 19:07:45 might be all you need Jul 06 19:08:41 oh and run this: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward Jul 06 19:08:54 if it's a 0 then that's definitely part of your problem Jul 06 19:09:06 search MASQ on the wiki Jul 06 19:10:26 ok, IP forwarding turned on but everything you told me didn't help Jul 06 19:10:58 on my other pc the same works fine... Jul 06 19:11:30 I already had a look at my kernel options but everything is ok there Jul 06 19:15:31 Darkas: if you run the exact same commands on two different machines and only one works, it's clearly an environmental issue (but you knew that already). there reaches a point where all I can suggest is what SpeedEvil said, and that's to read the wiki. Jul 06 19:16:16 SM2k, then I'll reread it until I found the problem ;) Jul 06 19:16:18 thanks Jul 06 19:16:41 ssh socks tunnel is a cheesy 'solution' Jul 06 19:16:56 I've found that 95% of the time the wiki knows the answer, it just doesn't beat you over the head with it. :-) Jul 06 20:01:19 <|Marco|> this is strange, after activating gprs over dbus andthen deactivating successfully, I can't activate it again or poll directly with mdbus, it just hangs :/ Jul 06 20:01:23 <|Marco|> this is with shr-shr-lite-image-glibc-ipk--20090703-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz Jul 06 20:02:36 |Marco|: did it release its resources cleanly? Jul 06 20:02:53 <|Marco|> I don't know, I can't get a status Jul 06 20:03:11 <|Marco|> mdbus is hanging Jul 06 20:03:37 <|Marco|> ouch, hold on, just got a message from mdbus Jul 06 20:04:07 <|Marco|> http://pastebin.com/m3a5eddc4 Jul 06 21:14:05 hi, i installed om2009 on my phone but i cannot ssh to it Jul 06 21:14:21 usb0 does not appear, but eth1 does though Jul 06 21:14:59 i cannot ping 192.168.0.202 either Jul 06 21:15:49 i am using the same command as always 'ifconfig usb0((rather eth1 since usb0 does not appear)) 192.168.0.200' then trying to ssh Jul 06 21:16:01 phone seems setup properly Jul 06 21:16:16 i will go read the mailinglist Jul 06 21:16:30 its supposed to do that Jul 06 21:16:40 usb0 is now eth1 (or the next available eth dev) Jul 06 21:16:58 ah Jul 06 21:16:58 can you ping the device? Jul 06 21:17:03 no i cannot Jul 06 21:17:28 #!/bin/bash Jul 06 21:17:28 iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 Jul 06 21:17:28 sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Jul 06 21:17:28 ip addr add 192.168.0.200/24 dev eth2 Jul 06 21:17:28 ifconfig eth2 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 Jul 06 21:17:49 that's the script I use to bring up the interface on this workstation (doesnt come up automatically on this one) Jul 06 21:17:58 i will change that eth2 to eth1 Jul 06 21:18:26 you can drop either the ip addr add, or the ifconfig Jul 06 21:18:32 the ip addr add doesnt work on this machine Jul 06 21:18:37 should probably comment that out Jul 06 21:19:09 the really funny thing is each FR gets a new ethX, so you're really in trouble when handling with multiple devices now Jul 06 21:20:17 still not working Jul 06 21:20:20 i liked usb0 Jul 06 21:20:21 at least managing ssh keys wont be such a pita Jul 06 21:20:22 DocScrutinizer: or not, one can add as many entries to his network config file on host as he wishes. Jul 06 21:20:47 tae: check your routing tables. Jul 06 21:20:53 yeah, tell this to my neo-ssh script Jul 06 21:21:02 ah my routing tables are a mess :( Jul 06 21:22:09 DocScrutinizer: a guy on ML asks about "radiation pattern of the internal antenna" (GPS) :) Jul 06 21:22:16 ndnihil: I got no problems with managing ssh keys, they are simply stored to dev/null Jul 06 21:22:36 PaulFertser: it's a valid question - though backwards. Jul 06 21:22:48 doc: doesn't that get annoying having to type 'yes' constantly? Jul 06 21:23:02 bah, have better ways to feel unhappy ;-) Jul 06 21:23:03 SpeedEvil: any question can be made valid after slight modifications, i guess ;) Jul 06 21:23:21 ndnihil: I don't have to Jul 06 21:23:40 radiation and reception patterns are always identical Jul 06 21:24:13 PaulFertser: now it looks like this; http://pastebin.org/358 Jul 06 21:24:22 SpeedEvil: and probably we don't have a decent spec for either Jul 06 21:24:31 that virbr0 is new Jul 06 21:24:44 might be related to my upgrade to jaunty Jul 06 21:25:02 tae: routing looks ok. Check your iptables configuration then. Jul 06 21:25:12 ndnihil: ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@192.168.0.202 Jul 06 21:25:21 ah Jul 06 21:25:58 ndnihil: NO WORRIES ABOUT MAN-IN-THE-MIDDLE ATTACK HERE ;-d Jul 06 21:26:05 ooops, capslock Jul 06 21:26:08 heheh Jul 06 21:28:37 SpeedEvil: still asking about radiation pattern of gps ant is weird, as it's not supposed to be used to radiate anything. He needs to specify the radiation frequency he want to know the pattern for then. And if he says "the frequency used by the sats to transmit the signal" it'll get ridiculous. Jul 06 21:28:41 PaulFertser: http://pastebin.com/f39deb2f8 Jul 06 21:29:10 waaahaaahaaaa Jul 06 21:29:27 yeah, always talking to those nasty sats Jul 06 21:31:29 anyway, it's virtually impossible to digg out that data at OM Jul 06 21:32:35 \o/ ManowaR on my radio \o/ Jul 06 21:32:44 and even *if* I could, I wouldn't trust it. After my experiences with self-contradictory diagrams for gta03 GPS-ant Jul 06 21:33:58 tae: i'd try to tcpdump on eth1 interface. Jul 06 21:34:12 for what? Jul 06 21:34:29 tae: tcpdump -s0 -vvv -i eth1 Jul 06 21:37:53 hmm eth1 is not appearing anymore Jul 06 21:37:54 It's probably easiest to stick the thing on a record player in a big field, and just measure Jul 06 21:39:22 ah Jul 06 21:39:25 reboot worked :) Jul 06 21:39:26 thanks :) Jul 06 21:43:21 tae: reboot? you choosed a way too easy :-/ I saw some strange entries in routing tables that prevented normal operation but they were visible only with "ip r ..." commands. Jul 06 21:44:54 yeah i know rebooting is for windows sissys, but im tired and it gave me time to go smoke, and im pretty tired and i have a lot to do still, i want to debootstrap debian and run it in a chrooted environment from the press of a icon Jul 06 21:45:22 i finally solved my 'how to run openmoko+debian so i can have all the packages i want' Jul 06 21:46:48 tae: rebooting and smoking -> double failure :P Jul 06 21:47:12 failure to do what? Jul 06 21:47:25 tae: failure to avoid bad things in life ;) Jul 06 21:47:46 ;) Jul 06 21:47:55 i guess it depends on what you smoke Jul 06 21:48:18 tae: for sure. Tabacco is so meaningless it makes me wonder why people still do it. Jul 06 21:48:32 i dont smoke tobacco its not good for you Jul 06 21:49:14 tae: i'm a debian user still waiting for SHR apps to become available. I so don't like Zhone but i'm still using it. :) Jul 06 21:49:26 i did not like zhone either Jul 06 21:49:48 hackable1 is nice Jul 06 21:50:09 i ran that prior to this openmoko2009/debiandebootstrap attempt Jul 06 21:51:49 PaulFertser: Building debian packages for SVN Enlightenment is pretty easy (was, seems to be broken in latest SVN at least for the last week :( ). SHR apps are not a big deal to compile, though I didn't bother to create debian packages for them. Jul 06 21:52:24 Debian works like a charm with SHR apps that way, my only problem is that after a few suspend cycles the GSM modem stops working Jul 06 21:52:51 thrashold: are you using frameworkd from git HEAD? Jul 06 21:53:07 thrashold: and fso-abyss? Jul 06 21:54:07 Yes, though not the latest (last pull few weeks ago), fso-abyss - no Jul 06 21:54:31 I'm using gsm0710muxd Jul 06 21:54:58 thrashold: does it look like it fails to suspend because the modem doesn't answer on some AT command? Jul 06 21:55:11 Yes. Jul 06 21:55:50 for many people fso-abyss fixes this issue Jul 06 21:56:17 but not for all, at least with fso-abyss you will have it not often Jul 06 21:56:17 I see. Thanks, I'm gonna try it. Jul 06 22:05:30 thrashold: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/support/2009-July/005710.html Jul 06 22:06:36 thrashold: for fso-abyss: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/opkg-u Jul 06 22:08:16 Thanks. Jul 06 22:08:41 Heh, I also experienced the GPRS issue mentioned there. :) Jul 06 22:09:01 DocScrutinizer, hi! I suggest add grep on your PKGS Jul 06 22:09:24 duh, thought it's in Jul 06 22:09:47 find-utils, no? Jul 06 22:09:55 also, interesting why you want binutils without gcc Jul 06 22:09:56 nah, prolly not Jul 06 22:10:36 max_posedon_: this is based on a mrmoku work Jul 06 22:11:33 first goal was to completely replace crappy busybox Jul 06 22:12:12 for completely replace list should be much longer Jul 06 22:13:17 max_posedon_: any tested augments welcome Jul 06 22:19:02 bzip2 vim Jul 06 22:31:15 max_posedon_: I don't like vim, I never got used to the cryptic UI of vi, edlin, medis, and whatever there was around the last 30 years. One exception though: wordmaster Jul 06 22:31:42 and some Amiga-editor which the name of I forgot Jul 06 22:33:19 and please don't suggest Eighty-Megabytes-And-Constantly-Swapping Jul 06 22:33:50 DocScrutinizer: CygnusEd? (Amiga editor) Jul 06 22:34:07 DocScrutinizer: do you have gta01 schem handy? I'm suspecting some horrible thing but it's too late here so i can't trust my eyes Jul 06 22:34:12 nah, not sure. guess not Jul 06 22:34:31 yup go ahead Jul 06 22:34:44 DocScrutinizer, )) but still. busybox provide vi, for removing busybox you need vim) Jul 06 22:35:00 DocScrutinizer: page 8 lower side, backlight control. Jul 06 22:35:38 and emacs is really good for developing software (for all other stuff I prefer vim) Jul 06 22:35:56 PaulFertser: ? Jul 06 22:36:22 DocScrutinizer: i can't see how it disables backlight. Jul 06 22:36:27 PaulFertser: ooooooucccch Jul 06 22:36:33 yes Jul 06 22:36:50 THAT IS *BAD* Jul 06 22:37:15 DocScrutinizer: does it really simply shunt BL by connecting VB to ground via 22R ? Jul 06 22:37:23 DocScrutinizer: i can't believe that Jul 06 22:37:29 we only can hope the Vfwd of the some 10 LED is much higher than Vbat Jul 06 22:38:03 nah Jul 06 22:38:27 that's a push-converter Jul 06 22:38:44 it pulls thru L6001 Jul 06 22:38:58 via U6001:1 Jul 06 22:39:16 DocScrutinizer: ok, gotta read the datasheet. Jul 06 22:39:22 then cuts this path, and induction creates some 20V Jul 06 22:39:44 via D6001 to LED+ Jul 06 22:40:15 if the chip stops opperation, we don't have 20V but still 4V on LED+ Jul 06 22:40:40 DocScrutinizer: i see. Disabling backlight works only when Vfwd of BL is higher than VB Jul 06 22:40:47 R6003 is for current feedback only Jul 06 22:40:56 exactly Jul 06 22:41:41 realy NASTY Jul 06 22:43:18 I wonder why didn't they used pcf50606 dedicated led backlight integrated driver... Jul 06 22:43:20 PaulFertser: good catch :-) Jul 06 22:43:29 As is done in gta02. Jul 06 22:43:35 pfff, no idea Jul 06 22:43:53 don't even know if 50606 has any Jul 06 22:44:06 I'm reading DS atm, it seems that it does. Jul 06 22:46:23 hmm, no empty pins on p.4 Jul 06 22:48:02 DocScrutinizer: GPO0, GPOOD0 Jul 06 22:48:23 the shotkey diode carries the current into the LEDs - and the zener I guess protects in the case that teh backlight is disconnected Jul 06 22:48:31 * SpeedEvil wonders why the 10K pulldown. Jul 06 22:48:33 Suspend? Jul 06 22:48:39 or are all IOs supposed to have pulldowns in suspend - suspect so. Jul 06 22:49:20 SpeedEvil: (/schotky, zener) yup Jul 06 22:49:20 But the backlight LED really does go totally out Jul 06 22:49:24 so current is 0 Jul 06 22:49:53 Or at least to current well under 1mA Jul 06 22:50:21 (As I couldn't see it when I was doing some testing at night) Jul 06 22:50:27 (to see how low it'd go) Jul 06 22:51:37 SpeedEvil: (10k) that's a big confusion, as every variant of SoC has different pull-uo/down / OC for the GPIO Jul 06 22:51:57 and always mixed, some pullup, some pulldown etc, afair Jul 06 22:53:21 Probably going from each subsystems example schematic in the datasheet Jul 06 22:53:28 still I wonder how they possibly do BL dim, with this braindead CE Jul 06 22:53:40