**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 08 02:59:57 2009 Aug 08 04:17:30 okay guys Aug 08 04:17:32 fuck qtmoko Aug 08 04:17:42 fuck it in its cornhole Aug 08 04:17:46 Not now, I have a headache Aug 08 04:18:02 * ndnihil finally got perl-tk working on shr-unstable Aug 08 04:20:37 hmm Aug 08 04:20:44 what is the latest kernel Aug 08 04:21:09 * rooly wants to try old qt4.3.2 with a decent kernel/modules.tgz and qi Aug 08 04:21:15 since i'm in flash mode right now Aug 08 04:21:20 'twas the best os released Aug 08 04:21:26 no browser, mind you Aug 08 04:21:28 but still Aug 08 04:22:14 latest? or "most recently functional" Aug 08 05:06:18 okay Aug 08 05:06:24 gonna try out qt 4.3.2 Aug 08 09:53:28 woot woot, perl-tk compiled, missing perl bits added, and video launcher for glamo patched mplayer works Aug 08 09:53:53 its not pretty, but I'm so happy I dont have to use python for GUI :) Aug 08 09:54:17 congrats Aug 08 09:54:23 that's the idea of freedom Aug 08 09:54:38 indeed Aug 08 10:12:31 does the mplayer in shr-unstable have a glamo patch? Aug 08 10:13:50 I dont think so Aug 08 10:14:00 I'm using shr-unstable from about a month ago Aug 08 10:14:05 and had to install it separately Aug 08 11:24:50 Guys, i know it's quite offtopic but can somebody explain me the "western society" pov on Georgia / Russia war that happened a year ago? Aug 08 11:26:05 PaulFertser: hey, that is a nice question :) Aug 08 11:26:32 PaulFertser: what's your take on it? Aug 08 11:27:42 vegyraupe: i'm asking because all our official mass media are trying to present that as an ultimate aggression of Georgia against freedom-loving people of Osetiya. Since it's an official position i'm very sceptical about it but it looks like it was Saakashvili who's guilty of deaths. There were no war but he started it... Aug 08 11:30:08 heh, I think here it is presented as Russian wanting to regain influence and securing its "sphere of influence"(quote from german mass media) and the EU being afraid of backing Georgia due to fear of confrontation with Russia Aug 08 11:30:15 at least that is what I remember Aug 08 11:30:46 they pretty much presented "democratic small georgia" up against "the big empire" Aug 08 11:30:49 vegyraupe: that's true but our army forces didn't kill people in the first place. Aug 08 11:31:06 PaulFertser: I am not saying that this is my opinion Aug 08 11:31:24 that was what stuck in my head from the media Aug 08 11:31:47 PaulFertser: same here (uk) Aug 08 11:31:50 I have not nearly enough knowledge in order to give a qualified comment Aug 08 11:32:02 I'm sure that's true. Russian authorities care much about their "empire ambitions" so yes, they support separatism whereever they think they can get some influence. Aug 08 11:32:15 Paul+ Aug 08 11:32:28 PaulFertser: that is common practice and does go for any bigger nation Aug 08 11:32:58 so from my paranoid POV russia did what every big nation does but it got caught Aug 08 11:33:16 vegyraupe: imho it sucks but the most important question for me is who actually started the war, started to kill people. Aug 08 11:33:18 (judging from my limited knowledge) Aug 08 11:33:49 let me check what our media says Aug 08 11:34:10 From what I've understood on all the media - russia was creating a pretext to a large degree by issuing passports to georgians. Then something unclear happened - I haven't seen enough data from independants either way - leading to a russian 'invasion' - and subsequent take-over. Aug 08 11:34:50 (neglecting the military action in georgia - that's still under georgian control. Aug 08 11:36:38 SpeedEvil: (passports) true Aug 08 11:36:44 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r90afcfb9a09a 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_contacts_fso.py: opimd: SIM-Contacts-FSO: update function names Aug 08 11:37:00 SpeedEvil: russia created a lot of tension there by doing many stupid inappropriate things, that's no doubt. Aug 08 11:37:49 SpeedEvil: but what happened after that is an attempt by georgian authorities to regain control over Osetiya with military forces. At least i've never heard any other explanation. Aug 08 11:38:55 They may well have felt that at some point, you've got to make the attempt though, or lose your country through inaction. Or large parts of it. That it was an incompetant attempt to regain control is another issue. Aug 08 11:38:59 PaulFertser: it seems they said the same here, Georgia sent troops and Russia responded by also sending troups Aug 08 11:39:43 SpeedEvil: attempt to take control over people by force? Is it something that can be considered moral anywhere? Aug 08 11:40:29 SpeedEvil: the reality is that quite some Osetiya inhabitants do not want to be a part of georgia, they proved that with arms in their hands in 90s. Aug 08 11:40:57 vegyraupe: and that is considered to be "ok"? To send troops? Aug 08 11:41:11 There were certainly people in russias area of protection - before the attempt by georgias military - who diddn't want to russia to be there at all. Was it a majority - or a minority - I have no clue. Aug 08 11:42:03 PaulFertser: considered ok by whom? I believe the situation is far too complex to talk in terms of "ok" and "not ok" Aug 08 11:42:26 SpeedEvil: that's true indeed. Aug 08 11:43:13 PaulFertser: it depends what people say in 5 - 10 years ... "Russia sent troops to stop Georgia from stopping a revolution" or "Russia used the heat of the moment to tighten its grip on the area" Aug 08 11:43:15 Horrible issue. Fundamentally insoluble. The notion of taking over a slice of other countries to 'protect your citezens' - that are largely your citezens because you've recently issued them passports sounds - historically - like a really, really bad precedent to set/encourage. Aug 08 11:43:24 vegyraupe: by the society. Can anyone think that giving passports is worse than killing people? Aug 08 11:44:39 SpeedEvil: but afaik Osetiya and Abhasiya were in fact independent from Georgia for more than 10 years. Aug 08 11:45:09 SpeedEvil: so the revolution happened >10 years ago, not a year ago. Aug 08 11:46:02 Anyway - it's too close in time to really judge what the historical view will be. Aug 08 11:46:26 PaulFertser: about your first question: here in Poland, in mass media Russia was "that evil" :P Aug 08 11:46:37 And there were russian "peacemakers" in that area for quite some time already and it was considered to be acceptable by the EU. Aug 08 11:46:40 For example - Kosovo - it's only now looking fairly likely that it'll stay an independant state. Aug 08 11:48:00 (Fun debate on OpenStreetmap - Kosovo government releases data - do we accept it - given that the data was probably sourced from historical data before the Kosovan government came into existance - and there are quite a few places not recognising) Aug 08 11:48:26 SpeedEvil: i can't understand all the fuss about it. In my opinion any state borders are nothing comparing to the people's lives. And i believe people are free to choose themselves if they want to be a part of some particular state or not. Aug 08 11:49:05 And if 34% want to be of state A, 34% of state B, and 31% state C? Aug 08 11:49:14 The case of 100% is easy and trivial. Aug 08 11:49:42 In many ways the brokenness is the existance of states at all. Aug 08 11:50:38 SpeedEvil: (existance of states) so true :-/ Aug 08 11:51:31 But thousands of little kingdoms, with taxes at each border are a more pervasive problem, and lead to many more issues. Aug 08 11:56:39 PaulFertser: the thing is - Russia was breaking international law, and they clearly stated "we don't care about restrictions" Aug 08 11:58:21 international law less important then people lives Aug 08 11:58:32 don't forget about it Aug 08 11:58:41 max_posedon++ Aug 08 11:59:11 dos1: don't forget: there were no war before georgian troops came there. Aug 08 11:59:58 and when you speak so, dos1, ask your goverment, why about Kosovo poland had different position in exactly same situation Aug 08 12:01:05 PaulFertser: but why russian troops came? Aug 08 12:02:33 dos1: to stop invasion (and to fulfill russia's empire desires of course). Osetiya was in fact independent from Georgia for more than 10 years. Aug 08 12:02:45 also about this conflict, near 40% of people there had Russian passportss Aug 08 12:04:48 for me Kosovo situation looked really differently... Aug 08 12:05:01 max_posedon: well, technically that's true but in fact that's some dirty trick and i don't think that's relevant. Aug 08 12:07:05 PaulFertser: Osetiya was "independent" from Georgia since 1991, but there was no country which accepted that independence Aug 08 12:07:24 PaulFertser: Russia accepted it 17 years later... Aug 08 12:07:46 dos1: that by no means can justify invading it with georgian troops. Aug 08 12:08:09 it's oficialy part of Georgia Aug 08 12:09:18 well. that's complicated situation and i can't say, who is "that good" - Georgia or Osetiya Aug 08 12:09:23 and offitialy Georgia started inetrnal war Aug 08 12:09:48 but i can't see, what the hell russia is doing outside their teritory Aug 08 12:10:07 you still speaking about laws, and forgrtting people lives Aug 08 12:10:15 and interesting thing is that was *only* russia, noone more Aug 08 12:10:29 so Russia is the only one country, which cares about people lives? Aug 08 12:10:43 dos1, look at map! Aug 08 12:10:54 dos1: don't forget, there're our peacemakers and that was officially accepted by international organisations. Aug 08 12:11:27 dos1: they were in fact obliged to stop _any_ military activities from any side. Aug 08 12:11:46 max_posedon: but USA and EU countries are against Russia intervences in Georgia Aug 08 12:11:50 dos1: and ok, that's officially part of georgia, well, does it give them the right to start a civil war then? Aug 08 12:12:11 keep in mind i don't know what is situation ATM, i'm talking about situation from year ago Aug 08 12:12:45 dos1, so USA and EU prefered to many deaths in Osetiya Aug 08 12:13:19 max_posedon: i can't believe Russia is the only one justice and good... Aug 08 12:13:25 it is ok for them, they far away, and don't care about people lives Aug 08 12:14:05 dos1, russia was able to start stopping war in 2 houes after beginning Aug 08 12:14:17 max_posedon: especially after second WW, when Russia was comming to Poland saying, that they will help us to fight with Germans Aug 08 12:14:45 so people was fighting more intensively due to hope help will come Aug 08 12:15:27 but Russia waited when polish people will fail, and then they will be able to occupy poland without fight... Aug 08 12:16:06 i don't know how russia people are educated about second WW, but i heard they are still trying to hide some facts Aug 08 12:16:25 and honestly - i don't trust Russia government :( Aug 08 12:17:09 poland not far from Belarus, there situation was similar Aug 08 12:17:28 but result was different, Aug 08 12:17:54 as for me - I don't trust any goverment Aug 08 12:18:30 PaulFertser: what do you know about Katyń? and if you know - where did you learn it? Aug 08 12:18:34 PaulFertser: no offence, i'm just curious Aug 08 12:19:22 "mama should I trust the govt...?" Aug 08 12:19:30 TAsn++ Aug 08 12:19:42 :) Aug 08 12:19:57 PaulFertser: Katyń = Катынь Aug 08 12:20:00 dos1: sure Aug 08 12:20:30 dos1, Хатынь Aug 08 12:20:55 max_posedon: then looks like wikipedia article needs correction :D Aug 08 12:20:56 dos1: (poland occupation) iirc it's commonly known that the ussr and germany made a secret agreement to divide poland in two parts and occupy it. Aug 08 12:21:14 PaulFertser: yup Aug 08 12:21:43 yes. and I remind your both Aug 08 12:22:04 that Russian part - is Belarus now Aug 08 12:22:06 dos1: max_posedon http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB Aug 08 12:22:48 PaulFertser: but ussr did that in really bad way, as they said they want to help poland to fight with germans Aug 08 12:23:30 dos1 problem is they just can't help Aug 08 12:23:49 PaulFertser: i don't want to know what is available in wikipedia. i want to know what is learned in schools in Russia Aug 08 12:23:54 Belarus was occupired in 3 montha Aug 08 12:24:18 PaulFertser: and what do you know about why it isn't accepted by Russian government Aug 08 12:24:21 dos1: i don't think many sane people would defend ussr actions. Aug 08 12:25:41 PaulFertser: right. i just want to confirm if propaganda is still used in Russia, cause as far as I heard it is Aug 08 12:25:48 dos1: also it was officially accepted that mass murder in Katyn is ussr's authorities action. Aug 08 12:26:01 dos1: in 1990 Aug 08 12:27:10 Katyn is just symbol, but many-many villages here was fired by germany Aug 08 12:27:18 dos1: btw, nobody trusts russian govermnent. That doesn't mean georgia's allowed to start a civil war. Aug 08 12:28:06 dos1, try compare belarus anf poland cities Aug 08 12:28:23 most of our was completly distroed Aug 08 12:28:59 we have old houses only in Grodno and Brest Aug 08 12:31:05 max_posedon: almost the same here, but it depends on if we look on west or east of poland Aug 08 12:31:58 but i'm sure Warsaw was completely destroyed during II WW Aug 08 12:32:32 visit warsaw, and go trough old parts of town Aug 08 12:32:56 max_posedon: which are rather small parts and mostly reconstructed Aug 08 12:33:12 you will see old houses, Minsk - haven't them Aug 08 12:34:44 max_posedon: another which in which i'm so cursious: what Belarus people know about Polish Association on Belarus? Aug 08 12:34:53 anyway, we far away from topic from which you started.. Aug 08 12:35:32 Саюз Палякаў Беларусі Aug 08 12:35:53 max_posedon: i know, but i'm just using possibilty to hear answers to interesting questions to me ;) Aug 08 12:36:15 Its just political organization Aug 08 12:36:34 main goal - support opposition Aug 08 12:37:14 also they looking for cheap people to work in Poland Aug 08 12:38:02 and have some programs for belarus people who want live in Poland Aug 08 12:38:32 hmm Aug 08 12:38:34 strange Aug 08 12:38:51 can I ask a non-political question? Aug 08 12:38:58 I'm from Grodno, many my friends immigrate to poland with their help Aug 08 12:39:13 badcloud_, sure) Aug 08 12:40:22 max_posedon: that's why bielarus government don't accept this association and makes another, not accepted by polish government? Aug 08 12:40:27 dos1, also I know that all this orhanization used for taking money from your goverment Aug 08 12:40:30 are there any distros that come close to shr's battery life? Aug 08 12:40:46 or does it have to do more with the kernel Aug 08 12:41:08 badcloud_: if the distro supports suspending, then there shouldn't be much difference. Aug 08 12:42:06 dos1, as I said, main peoples from there just taking your moneys and put them into their pockets Aug 08 12:42:42 max_posedon: where did you hear that? Aug 08 12:43:26 hear? I know it), I know some of this people Aug 08 12:44:29 max_posedon: ok, that's what majority of associations is doing, but why bielarus isn't accepting it? :P Aug 08 12:44:41 belarus haven't opposition. its fake, for asking EU for more money Aug 08 12:44:48 and makes repressions on polish journalists? Aug 08 12:45:09 dos1: do you really expect max_posedon to defend his goverment? :-O Aug 08 12:45:14 really? I could barely get through one day using h1 Aug 08 12:45:22 under suspend Aug 08 12:45:36 whereas with shr I get over two das Aug 08 12:45:39 *days Aug 08 12:45:46 max_posedon: it is. bielarus is even redaging their own version of "głos znad niemna" Aug 08 12:45:51 (newspaper) Aug 08 12:46:45 dos1 belarus goverment dislike any political introversion from any country Aug 08 12:47:02 PaulFertser: it seems i need to learn english more until i'll make discussions like that again. i just can't say everything i want, even with looking at dictionary :D Aug 08 12:47:23 max_posedon: that explanation looks crappy for me, sorry :( Aug 08 12:47:31 russian political journalists have same problems Aug 08 12:47:36 as is Aug 08 12:47:47 dos1: belarus goverment is totalitarian, what are you surprised with? Aug 08 12:48:09 yep, PaulFertser right Aug 08 12:48:20 PaulFertser: noo, i just want to know what normal people know about that :P Aug 08 12:48:33 but we like this totalirizm Aug 08 12:48:35 PaulFertser: how it's pressented in media and in schools etc. Aug 08 12:48:46 (some of us) Aug 08 12:48:49 dos1: you bet it's the same as was in the USSR times. Aug 08 12:49:09 dos1: most smart people understood everything, some of them even liked than. Aug 08 12:49:17 dos1: most others were fooled by propaganda. Aug 08 12:51:27 PaulFertser: i'm probably to young to understand everything. i was borned 3 years after Republic of Poland was created again (89), and i know that propaganda only from what i heard or what i read Aug 08 12:52:09 dos1: look at current russian tv news ;) Aug 08 12:52:30 dos1: oh, i have another suggestion. Aug 08 12:52:58 PaulFertser: i think i know quite good PRL (People's Republic of Poland), but i can't imagine me living in that times Aug 08 12:53:15 PaulFertser: so i probably won't even consider living in Belarus or Russia ;) Aug 08 12:53:26 dos1: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przenicowany_%C5%9Bwiat Aug 08 12:53:43 dos1: read that book! Aug 08 12:54:45 dos1: or at least Farenheight 451, this one is must read. Aug 08 12:54:54 dos1, as for me - I just keeping distance from politics at all Aug 08 12:55:57 dos1: and this one of course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four Aug 08 12:56:08 PaulFertser: ok, i'll look at that books Aug 08 12:57:21 1984... it's shame i didn't read it yet... :x but i think i'll soon Aug 08 12:57:30 one of my personal favs Aug 08 12:57:31 dos1: if you've never read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Bradbury before, i really recommend you to start. Aug 08 12:57:45 finished that thing in less than two days Aug 08 12:57:56 (1984, not my gta02 bat) Aug 08 12:58:24 but seriously, you guys haven't felt any differences between shr and all other distros in terms of bat life?? Aug 08 12:58:53 badcloud_: how SHR could have influence on battery life? Aug 08 12:59:11 dos1: i suggest you read Bradbury first. Aug 08 12:59:14 badcloud_: of course if some distro is sucking 100% CPU all the time it does have influence ;) Aug 08 12:59:42 but correct suspend is more important Aug 08 12:59:53 badcloud_, some distros don't suspend correctly Aug 08 13:00:06 badcloud_: maybe that's usage of FSO which makes difference. FSO disables all resources (wifi, bt, etc.) when they are not used Aug 08 13:00:08 dunno about others Aug 08 13:00:41 some not-fso-based could have problems with always enabled wifi for exanple Aug 08 13:00:57 does anybody know a configuration tweak to avoid suspends while gpsd is active? Aug 08 13:01:18 jaj: use fsoraw Aug 08 13:01:27 jaj: fsoraw and request CPU resource Aug 08 13:01:28 jaj: have you already read FSO_Resources wikipage? Aug 08 13:01:33 dos1, coming from a user point of view, no idea. I didn't fully diagnose, I just tested different distros as my daily phone Aug 08 13:01:39 PaulFertser: no Aug 08 13:01:43 jaj: please do Aug 08 13:02:05 jaj, Settings->Power->Auto suspend-> off Aug 08 13:02:35 max_posedon: how is it any better than using fsoraw? Aug 08 13:02:40 max_posedon: yes I know but I don't like GUIs ;) Aug 08 13:03:11 PaulFertser: thanks for the hint about the FSO_Resources page, I didn't know it Aug 08 13:03:32 PaulFertser, its finger friendly solution Aug 08 13:03:34 PaulFertser: it's better if you just want to pernamently disable suspend Aug 08 13:03:43 PaulFertser: it's also requesting CPU resource Aug 08 13:04:10 via ophonekitd Aug 08 13:04:23 jaj: it's brand-new, wrote that specifically to avoid telling people the same stuff all the time. Aug 08 13:04:34 :) Aug 08 13:05:27 is there some documentation about all those FSO tools like abyss, ophonekitd, frameworkd, ... what they do and how you can configure them Aug 08 13:05:33 there are no man pages AFAIK Aug 08 13:06:21 jaj: abyss doesn't require user configuration Aug 08 13:06:46 jaj: ophonekitd has a conf file, frameworkd has a self-documenting conf file too. Aug 08 13:06:58 jaj: whenever something is not obvious you can look at the sources or ask devs. Aug 08 13:07:06 And read the wiki! Aug 08 13:07:21 there should be man pages that tell you this Aug 08 13:08:19 lindi-: sure Aug 08 13:09:03 but for example for ophonekitd there is no wiki page, I don't even know what its role is Aug 08 13:09:44 jaj, it's the "phone manager" Aug 08 13:09:54 i.e it's responsible for asking fso to register to network Aug 08 13:10:02 or open an incoming call window Aug 08 13:10:05 when a call arrives Aug 08 13:10:09 etc etc. Aug 08 13:10:20 ok I see Aug 08 13:10:34 it's only important for the guy part? Aug 08 13:10:40 s/guy/GUI/ Aug 08 13:10:40 jaj meant: it's only important for the GUI part? Aug 08 13:10:43 jaj, GUI? no Aug 08 13:10:53 it's also responsible for registering to network Aug 08 13:10:59 (asking fso to register) Aug 08 13:11:16 its UI part Aug 08 13:11:18 and for some reason it also wraps resources allocation ;\ Aug 08 13:11:48 and frameworkd is responsible for actually talking to the devices? is it frameworkd that makes available the dbus api? Aug 08 13:12:27 jaj, aye. Aug 08 13:12:58 I see Aug 08 13:12:59 thanks Aug 08 13:23:46 TAsn: resource allocation is nice, i couldn't to auto-dimming and auto-suspend in shr-settings without that Aug 08 13:23:58 TAsn: it was also nice for bash scripts before fsoraw Aug 08 13:24:14 X has done autodimming for me for years :) Aug 08 13:24:46 dos1, you are talking about ophonekitd-resource-alllocation Aug 08 13:24:47 lindi-: i mean disabling autodimming :P Aug 08 13:24:56 TAsn: yes Aug 08 13:25:14 dos1: i can disable that with X too :) Aug 08 13:25:24 dos1, NO Aug 08 13:25:34 this is just a way for you to overcome a design flaw Aug 08 13:25:45 (i.e not enabling you to control auto-dimming correctly) Aug 08 13:25:50 nothing more. Aug 08 13:25:58 lindi-: but here that's not X who does blanking Aug 08 13:26:10 TAsn: it's also useful for me when using oumtsd :D Aug 08 13:27:20 dos1, how come? Aug 08 13:27:30 TAsn: and you can release and request again GSM resource with that Aug 08 13:28:11 dos1, if you think that's important (release and immediate request) consider suggesting it to the fso API Aug 08 13:28:16 no need for hacking. Aug 08 13:28:25 TAsn: hmm? Aug 08 13:28:26 TAsn: no Aug 08 13:28:35 TAsn: i mean "gsm antenna" switch in shr-settings Aug 08 13:28:48 TAsn: i'm calling ophonekitd.ReleaseResource('GSM') Aug 08 13:29:04 TAsn: so ophonekitd releases resource which it requested at boot Aug 08 13:29:36 that's something different! Aug 08 13:29:41 TAsn: and after that when i want to turn on gsm again, i'm calling ophonekitd.RequestResource('GSM'), and ophonekitd is activating GSM again :P Aug 08 13:29:46 you control the ophonekitd requesting of gsm Aug 08 13:29:55 it should have just been Aug 08 13:30:13 ophonekitd.Connect('GSM') Aug 08 13:30:16 or something like that Aug 08 13:30:25 but it's not because it's a resource Aug 08 13:30:27 but because Aug 08 13:30:40 ophonekitd is responsible for network management. Aug 08 13:31:17 TAsn: i agree it could be done much better Aug 08 13:31:31 TAsn: i'm just against removing resource handling from ophonekitd without adding substitutes Aug 08 13:31:49 dos1, I'm not favoring the removal Aug 08 13:32:07 ok then, i misunderstood :) Aug 08 13:32:07 I'm just against the initial addition :) Aug 08 13:32:29 dos1, ;) Aug 08 13:32:42 I think it's dumb Aug 08 13:32:42 and useless Aug 08 13:32:42 and plain confusing Aug 08 13:32:50 fso implements this way of resource handling for a reason! Aug 08 13:32:53 (because it's correct) Aug 08 13:32:59 no need to hack around it. Aug 08 13:33:05 just to make stuff broken on purpose Aug 08 13:33:26 Actually Aug 08 13:33:28 I don't think ophonekitd should have this kind of thing at all Aug 08 13:33:34 it should just sense (by signals) Aug 08 13:33:36 a change in gsm state Aug 08 13:33:39 and act accordingly Aug 08 13:33:49 fso should be able to just disable the resource without caring. Aug 08 13:34:02 TAsn: but how to change gsm state then, if gsm resource is requested by ophonekitd? Aug 08 13:34:09 oh Aug 08 13:34:17 ok, nvm Aug 08 13:36:51 dos1, do you agree? Aug 08 13:38:54 TAsn: i agree there should be some better method, but i'm not sure how it should look like Aug 08 13:38:56 :P Aug 08 13:39:11 dos1, so you do/don't agree with my design suggestion? :) Aug 08 13:43:52 TAsn: i agree with ophonekitd.Connect :P Aug 08 13:44:07 but i don't know how to think about "disabling resource without care" Aug 08 13:44:24 but probably it should be, as we don't want software to be smarter than user Aug 08 13:44:29 ;) Aug 08 13:44:50 aye. Aug 08 13:45:09 and we also want apps to be able to write apps without caring if it's shr/paroli or anything else, as long as it's fso based... Aug 08 13:45:45 dos1, as disabling the resource will ensure gsm is off Aug 08 13:45:58 while asking ophonekitd to release it, won't! Aug 08 14:05:11 TAsn: that's clearly an issue you need to decide from a system-design-goal POV Aug 08 14:05:41 DocScrutinizer, do you agree with my design suggestion? Aug 08 14:08:08 dunno about the general picture. If I were to implement e.g. flightmode, I'd disable all RF resources via policy. If I was to implement a simple "disable GSM as user don't need it ATM" I'd rather signal poneapp to free resource Aug 08 14:11:07 DocScrutinizer, hm.. I'm not sure about that. Aug 08 14:11:30 openmoko: 03werner * r5405 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (14 files): (log message trimmed) Aug 08 14:11:30 openmoko: - to simplify communication between the various modules, renamed "ctx" to Aug 08 14:11:30 openmoko: draw_ctx, moved it to gui_util.c, and made it a global variable Aug 08 14:11:30 openmoko: - moved drawing logic for hovering and dragging into dedicated state machine Aug 08 14:11:31 openmoko: in gui_over.c Aug 08 14:11:33 openmoko: - hovering now uses a pixmap to restore the background instead of redrawing Aug 08 14:11:35 openmoko: - moved hover drawing functions from gui_inst.c to gui_tools.c Aug 08 14:12:39 TAsn: disabling GSM via policy e.g. also tears down GPRS implicitly. That might not be exactly what user meant when "stopping phone app" Aug 08 14:13:25 there's no proper way to register to network and disable only phone call Aug 08 14:13:30 s Aug 08 14:13:32 for that you'll have to implement a service. Aug 08 14:14:00 TAsn: I'm aware of that. Just mentioning Aug 08 14:14:29 and for the current uses Aug 08 14:14:40 ophonekitd resource handling is plain bad :) Aug 08 14:17:27 openmoko: 03werner * r5406 10/trunk/eda/fped/README: (log message trimmed) Aug 08 14:17:27 openmoko: This introduction was missing in the previous commit: Aug 08 14:17:27 openmoko: For the new measurements, we need more flexible canvas markup options. This Aug 08 14:17:27 openmoko: includes the thicker circle for hovering. Aug 08 14:17:27 openmoko: To generalize hovering, we can't rely on redrawing alone but need to use a Aug 08 14:17:30 openmoko: pixmap to store the background as well. This creates a complex interaction Aug 08 14:17:32 openmoko: with dragging, which the existing code cannot handle cleanly. Aug 08 14:18:37 DocScrutinizer: disabling GSM == disabling GPRS, i think it's obvious :o Aug 08 14:18:53 TAsn: basically we'd need a means to handle (off|auto|on) resource policy for all resources same way we got it now for GPS Aug 08 14:19:10 DocScrutinizer: but GPS isn't perfect Aug 08 14:19:23 dos1, I think he meant GSM Aug 08 14:19:27 DocScrutinizer: you can't disable GPS with Manual switch when some GPS app already requested resource Aug 08 14:19:57 that's being smarter than user for me :P Aug 08 14:20:01 sure, that's correct behaviour Aug 08 14:20:16 on some resources at least Aug 08 14:21:05 DocScrutinizer: if I (user) want to disable GPS competely, then i don't care about other apps Aug 08 14:21:38 DocScrutinizer: i'm setting manual - > disabled, and GPS shouldn't be powered up at all, until i switch it back to auto or manual/on Aug 08 14:21:55 yep, agree Aug 08 14:22:23 should be handled by fso correctly via resource_available signal Aug 08 14:23:25 if you set to manual & off, fsousaged should signal all owners of that resource that it became unavailable Aug 08 14:24:08 * DocScrutinizer is wondering if this is missing in fsoraw... Aug 08 14:24:21 DocScrutinizer, sure it is. Aug 08 14:24:24 :) Aug 08 14:24:28 this is just a guess Aug 08 14:24:39 though it's probably a correct guess. Aug 08 14:25:03 i.e. fsoraw needs to listen to resources becoming unavailable and signal this condition to child app Aug 08 14:57:04 hello Aug 08 14:57:16 I have a completely dead OpenMoko in terms of battery. Aug 08 14:57:34 I have a PC + USB cable, or a USB wall charger (not OpenMoko original ones) that is said to deliver 500mA. Aug 08 14:57:53 and even with the wall charger the AUX button + plug trick (to go into the NOR u-boot) doesn't work Aug 08 14:58:24 the best I can get is a black screen and low beep sounds every 15-20 seconds Aug 08 14:58:31 any clue what this sound is ? Aug 08 14:58:57 boot neo without battery Aug 08 14:59:18 which procedure exactly ? (I already tried without battery) Aug 08 14:59:36 aux button, then plug ? plug and then aux + power ? on PC ? on wall charger ? Aug 08 14:59:38 1. remove battery Aug 08 14:59:53 (the Wiki says that some Neo can boot without battery, some can't) Aug 08 15:00:06 2 press aux Aug 08 15:00:20 3 insert power Aug 08 15:00:27 which power ? Aug 08 15:00:31 4 release aux only now Aug 08 15:00:36 any Aug 08 15:00:58 then aux+power boot your neo Aug 08 15:00:59 I've already tried this about 100 times. But I'll try just because you're asking. Aug 08 15:01:23 but don't try do it with windows on Pc Aug 08 15:01:39 I'm on Ubuntu Aug 08 15:01:59 should be ok Aug 08 15:02:29 the only thing I have with your procedure is "bip bip bip bip" when aux and power are pressed. And then "bip <10 secs> bip <10 secs> bip" afterwards. Aug 08 15:03:20 as I said, the OM wiki states that some Neo can't boot without battery. Aug 08 15:03:59 it really looks like that your have 100mA, try with wall-charger Aug 08 15:04:30 you shouldn't always trust wiki) Aug 08 15:12:06 max_posedon: same behaviour on wall charger (but again, it's not the official moko wall charger... i'm on holidays and I don't have it) Aug 08 15:12:23 i have these strange beeps. Aug 08 15:12:27 I never heard abut any beeping sound on bot .oO(???) Aug 08 15:13:06 it's not like a high "bip", rather a low-frequency short sound Aug 08 15:13:09 DocScrutinizer, I heard smth similar to bip Aug 08 15:13:11 yay, abOut, boOt Aug 08 15:13:28 chrrrk?? Aug 08 15:13:41 when I tried this` with windows` Aug 08 15:14:06 which gives only 100mA, yes, may be) Aug 08 15:14:15 max_posedon: I don't know how the wall charger behaves. Maybe it is very smart and only delivers 100mA until the device negociates 500mA. Aug 08 15:14:27