**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 09 02:59:57 2009 Aug 09 04:53:30 you guys are rather silent this evening Aug 09 04:53:43 * ndnihil is arguing with dbus Aug 09 04:53:49 yeah Aug 09 04:53:51 well Aug 09 04:53:55 dbus is gonna get its way Aug 09 04:53:56 you know it Aug 09 04:54:02 i know it Aug 09 04:54:04 dbus knows it Aug 09 04:54:14 dbus might get replaced by a perl script... Aug 09 04:54:23 lol Aug 09 04:54:41 lmao Aug 09 04:54:43 sorry Aug 09 04:54:46 worong channel Aug 09 04:54:47 go ahead Aug 09 04:54:49 it's funny Aug 09 04:55:48 rooly: it's 8:53 AM here. 8) Aug 09 04:55:58 then get to bed dude Aug 09 04:56:07 * rooly snicker Aug 09 04:57:29 Using **pending_return in dbus_connection_send_with_reply_setup() without pending_setup is deprecated and strongly discouraged Aug 09 04:57:36 ^I'm about fucking annoyed with that message Aug 09 04:58:03 yeah Aug 09 04:58:04 well Aug 09 04:58:08 do it right then Aug 09 04:59:10 rm -rf /; install debian; spend the next several months trying to attain nirvana Aug 09 04:59:36 lol Aug 09 04:59:43 nn guys Aug 09 04:59:48 later Aug 09 05:04:27 heh Aug 09 05:04:34 this pretty much sums up dbus for me Aug 09 05:04:46 Imagine that, every time a new song is played in your music player, a signal is sent on the bus and your instant messaging client picks it up to display it in your status ? Easy to do with D-Bus ! Aug 09 05:09:27 This pretty much sums up dbus for me: imagine a ridiculously overpowered signalling interface that only has a few applications which really take advantage of its advanced features. It's called Dbus! Aug 09 05:10:16 But, on my main computer, I use KDE, so I suppose I shouldn't be saying anything. :P Aug 09 05:10:49 its fine for modern desktops Aug 09 05:11:00 but for a phone with limited resources? Aug 09 05:11:14 ndnihil: I think the entire choice to use Debian isn't right. Aug 09 05:11:20 whys that? Aug 09 05:11:25 it's just a package management system Aug 09 05:11:39 There are lots of embedded linux environments out there. Aug 09 05:11:40 a pretty convenient one, that already has packages for this platform Aug 09 05:11:47 There used to be a project called ipodlinux.org Aug 09 05:12:02 They used a distro geared specifically for embedded devices (trying to remember the name) Aug 09 05:12:09 uclinux? Aug 09 05:12:14 That might be it. Aug 09 05:12:22 actually that's probably too embedded for this context Aug 09 05:12:32 Ah yeah, that's the MMU-less one Aug 09 05:13:08 a customized debian install would be fine Aug 09 05:13:13 But even my desktop is more lightweight... I use Arch Linux Aug 09 05:13:22 It uses BSD-style init for starters; much cleaner and faster Aug 09 05:14:17 Also, only comes with a few services. Unfortunately, it would take a while to get all the unnecessary bloated crap out of Debian. Aug 09 05:14:33 nah, you can do bare bones debian pretty easily Aug 09 05:14:56 install with predefined package lists Aug 09 05:15:44 I think the main goal, regardless of the distribution chosen, should be to remove as many background processes as possible. Aug 09 05:15:54 yep Aug 09 05:16:03 and make what is necessary as small a footprint as possible Aug 09 05:16:03 Arm hates multitasking so the necessary background processes should all be written in C at the very least. Aug 09 05:16:20 The difference between Python and C is enormous on those systems. Aug 09 05:16:24 so you have all those resources left over to run such processor intensive stuff as vim... Aug 09 05:16:41 Yeah, I'd love to start coding on my phone. Aug 09 05:16:50 so do it Aug 09 05:17:08 SSHing into my server and editing there is better though if I have a stable connection. Aug 09 05:17:21 Plus, I can use screen to prevent session breaks. Aug 09 05:17:51 * ndnihil is ssh'd into the phone from the workstation for developing Aug 09 05:17:57 nothing like doing it native :) Aug 09 05:18:01 WiFi isn't working for me right now; I have to investigate it more... Unfortunately, since I got this phone a few weeks ago, I've only had time to look into a few things (like the buzzfix) Aug 09 05:18:43 yeah Wifi hasn't worked for me yet either Aug 09 05:18:50 give neovento a try. it's not a regular use thing, but it'll let you see how fast debian can respond on this thing Aug 09 05:19:22 I can use wifi for open APs, but have yet to get a WPA/WEP connection established Aug 09 05:19:33 I have yet to determine if it's a kernel-related issue or if my config is bad. Aug 09 05:19:38 Is that with a frontend or manually? Aug 09 05:19:47 frontend works for open Aug 09 05:19:48 I've tried both and haven't had any luck with WPA encryption. Aug 09 05:20:02 tried many ways for manual and WEP/WPA Aug 09 05:20:06 nothing Aug 09 05:20:20 I saw that someone ported Wicd to the phone; I'm interested in trying that out. Aug 09 05:20:29 wicd? Aug 09 05:20:33 if it's a recent version, it uses python libraries to authenticate. Aug 09 05:21:05 It's a system containing a root-owned backend and two user frontends (curses and gui) Aug 09 05:21:36 Allows you to connect to WiFi easily... Works quite well on my laptop. Aug 09 05:23:35 I've been playing around with SHR; it's pretty usable, but it's very slow to load things. Aug 09 05:23:47 yep Aug 09 05:23:52 most usable of the bunch Aug 09 05:24:02 I have tried Neovento though and was really impressed with the speed Aug 09 05:24:14 neovento is based on debian Aug 09 05:24:16 and a lightweight wm Aug 09 05:26:22 I haven't really looked into this: how does Glamo compare to the iPhone's graphics processor? Aug 09 05:26:33 no idea Aug 09 05:26:43 I've played with an iphone Aug 09 05:26:50 it's a pretty smooth/fluid interface Aug 09 05:27:00 Finger scrolling is very slow, but I'm not sure if that's the fault of the processor or Glamo Aug 09 05:27:21 Yeah, I have too. I don't want to pay $100 a month for a plan with semi-decent coverage. Aug 09 05:29:27 The capacitive touchscreen is also nice too. Aug 09 05:33:32 most of what the iphone does right is convention Aug 09 05:34:30 and focing everybody to use a given set of specialised, tuned gui elements is part of that Aug 09 06:21:08 woot, reading GPS data by way of perl and dbus Aug 09 06:25:00 ndnihil: how much cpu time does it consume? Aug 09 06:27:45 0:13.23 so far :) Aug 09 06:27:56 it's just printing out coordinates Aug 09 06:28:02 nothing fancy Aug 09 06:28:20 1.4% cpu Aug 09 06:28:33 8% mem (eek) Aug 09 06:30:20 wonder how much the mplayer launcher thing uses Aug 09 06:31:25 practically nothing Aug 09 06:32:05 looks like 4% mem is just enough to hold the perl interpreter Aug 09 07:09:56 Guys, i almost got bluez4 networking to work, please try to improve: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Preliminary_information_about_bluez4_networking Aug 09 08:10:58 Come on, using my instructions i could successfully use my FR both as NAP and GN. Aug 09 08:16:03 no second device with bt here! Aug 09 08:39:01 Kero: np. I'm yet to send you any "smart" instructions about measuring yet, sorry. Aug 09 08:43:38 like the BT eh paul? Aug 09 08:44:27 np. charging battery, doing the occasional cat /s/c/p/b/voltage_now with and without charging. Aug 09 08:47:38 then I'l have to make a contraption to measure real stuff. Aug 09 08:47:56 ndnihil: do i like the BT? Aug 09 08:48:07 ndnihil: or what? Aug 09 08:48:11 you seem to be pretty active in getting BT stuff to work Aug 09 08:48:54 was more of an observation than a question Aug 09 08:48:57 ndnihil: no, it's just i was very unpleasantly surprised everybody's talking shit about it and can't get it to work. Aug 09 08:49:25 ndnihil: i don't need bluetooth headsets and networking. At least i didn't feel any need to do it. Aug 09 08:49:34 well, here are a lot of outdated pages high on search lists about BT on linux. Aug 09 08:49:41 can't say I've ever tried BT networking Aug 09 08:49:48 *many* refer to hcid and is config files Aug 09 08:49:55 tried the headset last time you updated the wiki Aug 09 08:49:56 Kero: i'd say almost all of them. Aug 09 08:50:17 * Kero recently got BT to work on a laptop at work. Aug 09 08:50:45 and the stupid hcid config files were on it, eagerly waiting for me to edit them, but being ignored otherwise :) Aug 09 08:50:52 I've gotten obex transfers to work Aug 09 08:51:03 reading manpages can be enlightening Aug 09 08:51:05 between workstation/laptop and the FR Aug 09 08:54:25 ndnihil: obex is easy, only pairing required and then obexftp/obexftpd cli tools work. Aug 09 08:56:25 yeah Aug 09 09:49:48 ok, BL-5C wrapped. Aug 09 09:58:26 but where the * are the grabbing things of my AMM... Aug 09 10:06:56 morning Aug 09 10:31:26 looks like a 0.11 voltage difference between charging and not charging. at least for mid-range voltages. Aug 09 10:32:00 (neo's own battery) Aug 09 10:33:10 (according to the kernel, not measurement with AMM) Aug 09 10:37:04 For those interested in bluetooth networking who doesn't read community ml, here's the solution: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Information_about_bluez4_networking Aug 09 10:49:04 I just did an update of shr-unstable and now my GSM modem seems dead, is that just me or has anyone else experienced this too ? Aug 09 10:50:26 Bert_2: the same for me and few other (according to shr-user ml) Aug 09 10:51:13 the modem itself? if you try booting another image does it work? Aug 09 10:51:29 soltys: I saw strange things about libgsm0701mux being autoremovable because it was an orphan now Aug 09 10:51:32 shr upgrades have been brakeing the os a bit lately Aug 09 10:51:45 dns53: it stopped after today upgrade :) some bug in ophonekitd ;) Aug 09 10:51:46 I'm used they break things Aug 09 10:52:18 but today's not a good day to break !!! Aug 09 10:52:42 always keep a sd card with qtopia on it incase it breaks Aug 09 10:52:44 Bert_2: so force downgrade of ophonekitd ;) Aug 09 10:52:55 afaik it should help Aug 09 10:53:07 soltys: do you have example code, I'm really bad at opkg (only know apt well) Aug 09 10:53:13 how do you force downgrades, it does not seem to like it most of the time Aug 09 10:53:39 opkg -force-downgrade instal link_to_ipk ;) Aug 09 10:53:43 or sth like that Aug 09 10:53:45 ;) Aug 09 10:54:05 hi, is there any kernel with stable wifi now? Aug 09 10:54:19 and afaik in shr repo there ar few recent vrsions of every ipk Aug 09 10:54:29 bipak_: wifi seemed stable for months now... Aug 09 10:54:34 s/ar/are Aug 09 10:54:47 oh really? great! :) Aug 09 10:54:50 but not after suspwend ;) Aug 09 10:55:00 s/suspwned/suspend Aug 09 10:55:08 :( Aug 09 10:55:34 yeah, you have to put it off and on again, right ? Aug 09 10:55:49 Bert_2: jeap sth like that Aug 09 10:56:10 bipak_: it worked for me after suspend too. Aug 09 10:56:14 (I've used wifi only a few times as I'm too lazy to set it up here at home again) Aug 09 10:56:24 bipak_: for the best experience i recommend you to read FSO_Resources now Aug 09 10:56:27 PaulFertser: also if you leaved it on when you suspended Aug 09 10:56:34 bad sentence there... Aug 09 10:56:56 Bert_2: yes, i just suspended and then resumed, wpa_supplicant reconnected automatically. Aug 09 10:56:58 PaulFertser: ok i'll give it a try. Aug 09 10:57:39 PaulFertser: cool Aug 09 10:57:52 since when is shr-unstable available in amd64 ? Aug 09 11:00:11 Hm, our wiki is awful. It gives recipes instead of knowledge. And recipies are often correct only for some narrow case and become outdated very quickly. Aug 09 11:01:41 the SHR wiki simply doesn't have any up-to-date information (except about the conference I guess :P ) Aug 09 11:02:00 And i bet if i remove all the crap i see i'll be blamed for harming "end-users" "because they need something simple to cut-n-paste". Fuck that! Aug 09 11:02:47 cut-n-paste goodness still helps you learn Aug 09 11:03:17 and being limited to a narrow scope, it forces you to understand it to apply the information to other scenarios Aug 09 11:03:31 it's a dev phone for christ's sake Aug 09 11:03:37 there are no "end-users" Aug 09 11:04:05 ndnihil: if there were no stupid "recipies" to get networking over usb working and instead there was a good explanation of stuff there won't be so many ridiculous questions about "omg my usb networking stopped working after some update". Aug 09 11:04:32 Bert_2: please tell it to those who always blame me for not taking "end-users" interests into account. Aug 09 11:04:38 recipes should come wwith explanations about the steps; and how to check the steps were succesful. Aug 09 11:04:40 I basically used some wikis, crafted a script and always use it :P Aug 09 11:05:09 PaulFertser: you're assuming people are going to do their own homework instead of asking someone else to do it for them :) Aug 09 11:05:34 it's much easier to hop on IRC and say "hey, how do I..." Aug 09 11:05:37 there may be people buying it only because it runs free software, without hacking it themselves, so maybe recipes could just be moved to some separate recipes page? just a thought.. Aug 09 11:06:10 Rakhun: as i already said imho recipies are plain useless and sometimes even harmful. Aug 09 11:06:25 ndnihil: luckily now i have several pages i wrote myself to send people to :D Aug 09 11:07:09 well, if you just read some stuff you can make useful thing, eg. my USB connect script http://pastebin.ca/1522851 (it might contain unneeded stuff, but it works so I don't care) Aug 09 11:07:16 PaulFertser: how are they useless if they give the results the users want? I definitely see how that can become outdated and break though Aug 09 11:08:09 Rakhun: the result is that some users are uneducated jerks. Aug 09 11:08:35 well, if you buy a moko they clearly say it is NOT a finished product Aug 09 11:08:42 * Kero remebers seeing some awful C-code that interacted with SCSI drives. After finding that code again and again, turned out it came from the SCSI howto... Aug 09 11:08:53 copied and pasted without understanding. Aug 09 11:09:13 Kero: hehe, proves my point, thanks :) Aug 09 11:09:29 downgrade of ophonekitd didn't seem to help, thing continue to act broken... Aug 09 11:09:30 Bert_2 thx, i was wondering how to stop ssh from complaining Aug 09 11:09:49 dns53: yeah, took me a while to find that out too :P Aug 09 11:10:03 excuse me, do someone know why on image lite-om-gta02.jffs2 there is no "opkg" software? Aug 09 11:10:14 PaulFertser: sure, but that just means the uneducated jerks will need to come here to get educated (since they won't read a non-recipe), have fun ;) Aug 09 11:10:45 * Bert_2 hates gsm modem issue (I shouldn't have updated today) Aug 09 11:11:02 I have a date today and I need to be able to receive text messages Aug 09 11:11:10 so where's that spare mobile phone :P Aug 09 11:13:49 ow, there's a new root image :O Aug 09 11:15:31 you bring up a good point. SHR 20090703 works nicely for my new SIM; but will I ever dare to upgrade without a backup phone at hand? Aug 09 11:16:10 Kero: I used to have an always working version on NAND Aug 09 11:16:18 and the latest upgrade on my SDcard Aug 09 11:16:54 (but I was so stupid to update both lately) Aug 09 11:17:15 * Kero should make more partitions on his SD, then. Aug 09 11:17:41 I use multiple SD cards Aug 09 11:18:15 I have Android and QTExtended on seperate cards Aug 09 11:19:19 Kero: are you on gta01? Using as the main daily phone? Aug 09 11:19:35 probably a better idea. my SD card is more than 50% full. Aug 09 11:20:15 but, some data would be nice to share (tangogps maps, hopefully pim data later on; perhaps I should stuff that on NAND :) Aug 09 11:20:30 PaulFertser: not yet. current SIM won't warn me about incoming SMS Aug 09 11:20:55 9 days from now my new SIM will get the current number, that one works. then I'll switch. Aug 09 11:21:15 Kero: is it some provired-issue? Aug 09 11:22:09 2.6.24 kernel has no white screens, and seems to work very well otherwise, but unfortunately no nice battery numbers. Aug 09 11:22:53 PaulFertser: could be. I mailed info to ML, joerg and dieter. I do not know what to do about it otherwise. Aug 09 11:22:55 Can anyone recommend my some really light bluetooth agent so i can pair with devices more easily? Or preferably something that runs in the background and has a fixed pin? Aug 09 11:23:13 and 9 days from now my debugging ability on the SIM will disappear. Aug 09 11:23:22 Kero: white screens on gta01? interesting. Can you describe more? Aug 09 11:23:47 PaulFertser there is one on the wiki under bluetooth that does work sortof, i ssh to my phone and start the agent and i can enter a pin Aug 09 11:23:50 after suspend. whether resume is triggered by button or usb-connect. Aug 09 11:24:05 seems to happen after somewhat longer time in suspend only. Aug 09 11:24:13 not temperature related ;) Aug 09 11:25:21 Kero: IIRC you provided FSO-logs. These need inspection by mickeyl, as noone else understands if the full sequence of modem init went thru without glitches Aug 09 11:25:48 can ssh in. neo runs. Don't think touchscreen works, though... could check if that helps. Aug 09 11:26:06 Kero: (missed SMS) Aug 09 11:26:36 DocScrutinizer: should I encourage mickeyl to do that now rather than next week? as 9 days is a hard deadline :) Aug 09 11:26:43 airodump is really nice Aug 09 11:26:48 (OT) Aug 09 11:26:49 dns53: i want an automatic way. I'm ok with setting some fixed pin and telling all my students to enter it so i can transfer files to their cellphones without additional overhead. Aug 09 11:27:04 Kero: yes, absolutely Aug 09 11:27:38 DocScrutinizer: I only sent those logs to you, you forwarded them? Aug 09 11:27:59 Also can anyone tell me if simultaneous transfer to several devices via obex is possible? Aug 09 11:28:02 Kero: you may quote me on "I do NOT believe in this issue being FW-related" Aug 09 11:28:21 PaulFertser: I don't think so Aug 09 11:28:23 Kero: only somewhat longer time? E.g. 5 sec is still ok? Aug 09 11:28:29 Kero: no. I missed on that (sorry) Aug 09 11:29:07 ndnihil: any idea why? BT supports many simultaneous connections, at least on l2cap level. Aug 09 11:29:09 say, what I never got, are the modules only for the SDcard image, or also for the jffs2 NAND stuff ? Aug 09 11:29:19 Bert_2: for any image Aug 09 11:29:24 PaulFertser: while playing with SHR at the beginning I noticed nothing whatsoever. next day, ooops! Aug 09 11:29:25 PaulFertser: it could have been the tools I was using Aug 09 11:29:34 Bert_2: the kernel you use should have corresponding modules in place. Aug 09 11:29:49 PaulFertser: are they supposed to be installed with dfu-util then ? Aug 09 11:29:50 ndnihil: i couldn't manage it too with simple obexftp cli tool. Aug 09 11:29:56 Bert_2: no Aug 09 11:30:01 probably same as I was using Aug 09 11:30:12 PaulFertser: so I first have to boot up without them and then install them ? Aug 09 11:30:19 Kero: hm, probably larsc can suggest something. Aug 09 11:30:48 Bert_2: no, if you install some image and the kernel it's supposed that those guys who did the image has already installed the necessary modules. Aug 09 11:31:09 Bert_2: but when you upgrade the kernel you need to upgrade modules too. I think it works autmatically in SHR. Aug 09 11:31:36 PaulFertser: yes, for as far as I know it is upgraded with opkg Aug 09 11:31:54 USB-download is soooooo slow... Aug 09 11:33:00 larsc: can you? suggest something related to White Screens after suspend on 2.6.29, can still ssh in; 2.6.24 kernel from FSO 5.5 is working fine after many suspends Aug 09 11:33:37 Kero: you didn't mention gta01 Aug 09 11:33:52 drat ;) Aug 09 11:36:43 owyeah, is 1.3.2-moko12 still the last version of U-Boot ? Aug 09 11:37:36 meanwhile, I really can not find the grabbing things for my AMM. gonna make life harder, as stcking tape inside the Neo is much less useful as outside a battery :( Aug 09 11:49:22 Kero: i know how it sucks :( for a year you see the things you don't need everywhere (kithen/bed/under the table etc) and then when you finally really need that stuff it's nowhere to be found. Aug 09 11:53:14 guess I'll buy new ones. though not today, as we're still resting on Sunday in this little country. beh. Aug 09 11:56:42 what's the suggested PIM software for SHR, paroli? Aug 09 11:58:36 Kero: no, it's opimd-gui or something like that Aug 09 12:01:45 don't see it in he lst of packages, lemme poke the wiki/google for it. Aug 09 12:03:16 opimd i see of course. maybe I'll start there anyway. I'm curious what the API can do these days. Aug 09 12:04:55 Kero: http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=opimd-utils.git;a=summary Aug 09 12:06:12 thx! Aug 09 12:09:21 * Kero starts a shopping list too Aug 09 12:10:04 SDHC works wih recent uBoot, good; but for Neo I see no explicit remark on wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards :( Aug 09 12:11:36 Kero: right Aug 09 12:11:52 Kero: someone did SDHC support for uboot for gta01 but i don't think it was pushed anywhere. Aug 09 12:12:23 Kero: i implemented SDHC support for Qi, and it works (probably not with every single card). Aug 09 12:12:57 does Qi work on Neo? Aug 09 12:14:10 anyway, I can load kernel from NAND, then only Neo+kernel need to support SDHC. Aug 09 12:15:12 Kero: and kernel definetely can access SDHC even on gta01 :D so yes, you're right. Aug 09 12:15:19 Kero: and yes, Qi works on gta01 Aug 09 12:17:32 that wiki needs updating. I've read uBoot-onl for gta01 on it, for sure. Aug 09 12:17:50 Kero: go ahead Aug 09 12:18:01 good. one big uSD is much more convenient than a couple of small ones. Aug 09 12:18:22 any Qi version that was first-to-work-on gta01 ? Aug 09 12:19:57 pft; Qi-page s fine of course. was another page, but which... if I stumble upon it, I'll fix it :) Aug 09 12:23:23 Kero: i think it was c793d92c87cec84bc4252ee7234100581199bbe8 Fri Nov 28 10:16:44 2008 +0000 Aug 09 12:41:47 just installed shr-full-xxxxxxx.jffs2 and it claims not to have opkg Aug 09 12:42:04 and Xserver doesn't start Aug 09 12:42:10 is that known or new? Aug 09 12:47:45 why is opkg renamed to opkg-cl ? Aug 09 13:42:03 :O Aug 09 13:42:46 "support for present models continues with limited resources" does that mean i shouldn't get a Freerunner? Aug 09 13:47:58 meoblast001: if you're generally afraid of shadows, yes. Aug 09 13:48:15 Or UFOs Aug 09 13:48:32 Or prefer opensource or even proprietary crap. Aug 09 13:48:53 meoblast001: Free software lovers already know whether they need FR or not. Aug 09 13:49:07 i have it Aug 09 13:49:09 :) Aug 09 13:49:11 FR Aug 09 13:49:31 i am programming analog clock for FR right now Aug 09 13:51:59 hrmf. Aug 09 13:53:17 i'd so like to build a GPS app for FR, in python, based on FSO, using OSM maps... but somehow i don't see where to start Aug 09 13:53:37 Wonka: do you already know how to obtain GPS data from FSO? Aug 09 13:53:56 Wonka: or how to make GUIs in python? Aug 09 13:54:20 Wonka: where are you again? Aug 09 13:54:37 PaulFertser: I have looked into zhone and extracted it's GPS parts into something I named "zgps" - but I don't like the UI stuff there Aug 09 13:54:57 SpeedEvil: near Kiel, Germany. I'll be at HAR2009, btw. Aug 09 13:55:13 * SpeedEvil won't. Aug 09 13:55:17 :/ Aug 09 13:55:18 Wonka: guys are using elementary these days to build guis. Probably you might want to take a look at the latest SHR apps. Aug 09 13:55:31 PaulFertser: sounds good Aug 09 13:55:36 Wonka: I have no idea why german people seem so interested in OSM. Aug 09 13:55:45 (more than other countries I mean) Aug 09 13:55:54 SpeedEvil: OSM got really good coverage here Aug 09 13:56:06 No, it diddn't. Aug 09 13:56:09 SpeedEvil: better than google maps in many places Aug 09 13:56:21 OSM got really good coverage due to involvement of germans Aug 09 13:56:34 I don't understand why. Aug 09 13:56:44 PaulFertser: FR? Aug 09 13:56:59 meoblast001: freerunner Aug 09 13:57:02 Very good evangalism by some community members? Something in the german psyche? Some hatred of google? Aug 09 13:57:14 look at the OSM wiki and german wikipedia... OSM is just another place where rule fetishists can thrieve :) Aug 09 13:57:24 oh Aug 09 13:57:29 it sounds like OpenMoko is going out of business Aug 09 13:57:31 hatred of google might be there too Aug 09 13:57:49 meoblast001: out of telephony business -- yes, for some time. Aug 09 13:58:09 i don't like how google deliberately has _wrong_ street names in it's data to find illegal copies of their stuff... Aug 09 13:58:14 meoblast001: they are considering to sell the FR. Aug 09 13:58:14 if i bought one, i wouldn't be able to use it as a phone because we have sprint Aug 09 13:58:18 in OSM, there is no such stuff Aug 09 13:58:25 but i was thinking about using one as a free alternative to the iPod Touch Aug 09 13:58:26 in OSM, i can correct errors myself Aug 09 13:58:28 Wonka: yes there is. Aug 09 13:58:32 something like that Aug 09 13:58:38 Wonka: but it's randoms adding streets for fun. Aug 09 13:58:39 meoblast001: sprint? non-gsm network? Aug 09 13:58:44 yes Aug 09 13:58:59 SpeedEvil: those tend to be removed very soon, i think Aug 09 13:59:08 Wonka: depends where you are. Aug 09 13:59:09 bbl. Aug 09 13:59:09 Sprint is, in my opinion, the worst phone company out there Aug 09 13:59:10 meoblast001: you'll be able to buy a FR for quite some time. Aug 09 13:59:12 wave Aug 09 13:59:30 PaulFertser: what will they be selling after they leave the phone business Aug 09 14:02:25 meoblast001: the same phones Aug 09 14:02:32 meoblast001: they have some stock. Aug 09 14:02:34 oh... Aug 09 14:02:37 meoblast001: and can produce more on demand. Aug 09 14:02:46 so i'm confused Aug 09 14:02:52 then they're not going out of business? Aug 09 14:02:54 They are continuing to sell the existing phone. Aug 09 14:03:00 They are not developing new phones Aug 09 14:03:05 what about when that stock goes out? Aug 09 14:03:26 or are they continueing to develop more of the same model of Freerunners Aug 09 14:05:36 meoblast001: producing more of the same model doesn't require developing anything Aug 09 14:05:56 meoblast001: they just "send a request to the factory" Aug 09 14:06:30 Newsflash: Openmoko stops new phone development. | Freerunner production continues. | Users of Openmoko Hardware | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org/ | Before asking read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 Aug 09 14:06:44 Sane? Aug 09 14:06:59 PaulFertser: don't they own said factory? Aug 09 14:07:04 Is OM actually doing any development of any sort ATM on hardware or software. Aug 09 14:07:17 No. Aug 09 14:07:29 FR would not keep a large factory in buisness Aug 09 14:07:38 it's run off a few thousand at a time. Aug 09 14:07:47 oh, ok Aug 09 14:08:18 so the freerunner will still be available for years to come? Aug 09 14:08:28 years may be stretching it. Aug 09 14:08:34 oh :/ Aug 09 14:08:35 For the forseeable future. Aug 09 14:08:54 It will certainly die - unless there is investment - when a major part becomes unavailable. Aug 09 14:09:11 well, i guess when something sounds too good to be true, it is Aug 09 14:09:13 SpeedEvil: they do, Plan B is ongoing Aug 09 14:09:27 Plan B, i forget which one that is Aug 09 14:09:52 meoblast001: ogg-enabled hair-straightener Aug 09 14:09:55 PaulFertser: I really hope plan B isn't another software stack with no community involvement at all. Aug 09 14:10:46 PaulFertser: vorbis, theora, or both? Aug 09 14:11:04 SpeedEvil: i really hope plan B will bring something good to the free software community. And no, it's not software stack for telecommunication device. Aug 09 14:11:16 meoblast001: it's a secret. Aug 09 14:11:29 oh Aug 09 14:12:27 A 3G enabled lava-lamp? Aug 09 14:12:57 I thought it was a much more modest project: A linux-powered pencil. Aug 09 14:13:36 It's well known that the device has no relation whatsoever to telecom industry and not powerful enough to run linux. Aug 09 14:14:14 * CVirus doesn't care about plan B Aug 09 14:14:18 And i want to warn you that OM asked everybody who might have a reasonable guess about it to refrain from disclosing since it might harm negotiations with investers. Aug 09 14:14:47 so how long until the Freerunner's technology is dated and i'm trying to sell the one i'm going to be buying soon? Aug 09 14:16:55 Frankly, some aspects are already horribly dated. Aug 09 14:17:28 It only has GPRS - not 3G - and the video hardware is akin to a 1993 16 bit ISA video card. Aug 09 14:17:41 Admittedly - a good 16 bit video card - but... Aug 09 14:18:06 Video playback is a big issue that doesn't work well for example. Aug 09 14:18:52 oh :( Aug 09 14:19:52 It is a cool device - but it has some extreme limits compared to 'comparable' phones. Aug 09 14:23:24 my old ruby-gtk2 binding crashes on SHR on Neo. though everything seems to be in place, same 2.14 gtk2 version. perhaps it's not the gtk2 part that crashes, then. Aug 09 14:26:43 blergh, I didn't specify the gtk2 deps. maybe that was an older version, after all. Aug 09 14:46:11 re Aug 09 14:54:50 mm, basic wires from battery to Neo done (lying upside down, felt vbrator & AMM responded on current). must find something more convenient when I start using Neo for real. and I need those grabbers instead of my hands for the last wire. Aug 09 14:58:08 Kero, I hope you have either short or heavy wires; the GSM will pull significant current from the battery ;) Aug 09 14:58:45 is 20cm short? Aug 09 15:01:27 AMM has choice betwen 250mA and 10 settings. something in between would have been nice... Aug 09 15:03:52 hi, how do I use mokomapper.py? Aug 09 15:04:06 *do I have to do something special to get a fix? Aug 09 15:05:38 *do I get a log of does it print to stdout? Aug 09 15:05:45 else I will read the code Aug 09 15:06:18 you probably have to be patient and outdoors to get a first fix Aug 09 15:11:18 hm, is there any way to use the flash space freed by using Qi instead of u_boot / u_boot-env? Aug 09 15:13:26 is there a simple way to uninstall a package? I have a bunch installed now and some don't really work and I just want to get rid of them. Aug 09 15:15:03 so wait, i should be safe if i get an OpenMoko? Aug 09 15:15:20 won't have to worry about the hardware becomming so obsolete that i can hardly use it Aug 09 15:16:03 drascus321: ipkg remove blah Aug 09 15:16:38 thanks Kero! where blah = package name? Aug 09 15:16:47 yup Aug 09 15:17:02 sweet this is the coolest phone ever! Aug 09 15:17:21 `ipkg help` tells you many more sweet things it can do :) Aug 09 15:17:52 so even though I used opkg to install i use ipkg to remove thats kind of weird but OK Aug 09 15:20:41 $ type ipkg => ipkg is an alias for opkg Aug 09 15:20:53 ah i see Aug 09 15:21:41 * Kero hadn't realized is was exactly the same, either :) Aug 09 15:24:13 the cool thing Kero is that I am not a big hacker I am more of an end user and the fact that this phone has been so useful for me shows that Openmoko is nearly ready for a average users Aug 09 15:32:24 drascus321: i'm a hacker and I think my Neo has just recently come to a point where it is usable for me... where "usable" means basic features work reliable day to day. Aug 09 15:33:22 really? well once I fixed the call volume and few other things i became happy with it. I just got it a few days ago Aug 09 15:34:56 or maybe I am more of a Hacker then I give myself credit for Aug 09 15:35:57 :) Aug 09 15:37:03 I actually want to write a call volume program in python for this thing. I didn't like having to ssh into it and edit a file to change it Aug 09 15:40:24 hi Aug 09 15:40:40 howdy Aug 09 15:40:52 rooly: :) Aug 09 15:42:07 sup Aug 09 15:42:26 moin PBeck Aug 09 15:42:27 :) Aug 09 15:42:49 * rooly is gonna attempt something... Aug 09 15:43:10 hi tobii_ Aug 09 16:00:59 question: if you have been having Wifi success with shr how did you do it? Aug 09 16:12:03 <|Marco|> drascus321: most likely in a terminal Aug 09 16:12:33 <|Marco|> I've yet to try one that works for me :/ Aug 09 16:12:33 OK that's fine with me. I just couldn't get Mokonnect to work for it Aug 09 16:12:51 but it did work for gprs Aug 09 16:12:56 <|Marco|> yeah Aug 09 16:14:12 would it be possible in your opinion to write a bash script to take care of wifi configuration automatically Aug 09 16:16:09 <|Marco|> yeah, but it depends on what sort of nodes it finds Aug 09 16:19:28 ok Aug 09 16:20:34 before I even try will this thing do wpa? Aug 09 16:20:53 <|Marco|> "this thing" ? Aug 09 16:20:58 <|Marco|> the moko ? Aug 09 16:21:26 yeah sorry that came out sounding kind of insulting Aug 09 16:23:07 <|Marco|> drascus321: nah, but I belive the wpa-supplicant can do it, even if I've only had problems with it on all the machines I've try'd to use it on Aug 09 16:23:45 alright cool I will play with it thanks for the advice Marco Aug 09 16:23:51 gtg Aug 09 16:38:40 hi, i done upgrade to last packages of shr unstable tree but now i have an error with fsousaged daemon, how can i do a downgrade with opkg? thanks in advance Aug 09 17:06:32 gah, geaaru: I just did that too... Aug 09 17:06:40 Now SHR won't connect to FSO. Aug 09 17:08:40 do you know how downgrade works? because i used -force-downgrade option but on install opkg see an updated version of fsousaged and so doesn't install previous version Aug 09 17:09:49 Not sure yet... Why do I always do these things 30 minutes before I have to go somewhere :/ Aug 09 17:10:27 :) Aug 09 17:11:25 better before than after :) Aug 09 17:11:36 I might just load up QtMoko and then worry about it when I get home. Aug 09 17:17:58 * jjwc might have found a fix Aug 09 17:32:52 Nope, nevermind... That did nothing. I'll play with it when I get home I guess. Aug 09 17:46:11 * Kero wonders why the SIm Auth window to request PIN suddenly has a borked layout, not showing any buttons, but only the bottom side of a few overlapping characters in the top left corner. Aug 09 17:52:56 I just did a clean install of Om 2008.8 and "opkg update; opkg upgrade" and now the FreeRunner refuses to boot Aug 09 17:53:18 it's stuck with some kernel messages on the screen Aug 09 17:53:34 last one: "PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa1" Aug 09 17:53:53 this installation was done on a microSD card Aug 09 17:54:52 I previously tried installing Om 2008.12 directly, but had the same problem as with post-upgrade 2008.8 Aug 09 17:55:17 Om 2008.8 works fine as long as I don't upgrade it, but I'd like to have the latest versions of everything Aug 09 17:55:21 any tips? Aug 09 17:55:58 om2008 is death Aug 09 17:56:21 why is that? Aug 09 17:56:44 it isn't developed anymore and it's unsupported Aug 09 17:57:07 but Om 2009 isn't released yet, right? Aug 09 17:57:12 ossguy: use Om2009 or SHR (i suggest SHR) Aug 09 17:57:19 ossguy: it isn't, but who cares? ;P Aug 09 17:57:31 it's generally more stable than om2008 Aug 09 18:01:39 so the install process for SHR on microSD is the same as for the others? Aug 09 18:01:59 just stick the kernel on partition 1 and unpack the rootfs to partition 2? Aug 09 18:15:37 yup Aug 09 18:16:02 good Aug 09 18:16:10 just about done the download Aug 09 18:17:05 I have a laaarge first partition vfat (for windoofs sake, when using usb-stick) with kernel on it, and a "small" (1GB) second one ext3 for rootfs Aug 09 18:27:00 ossguy: if you're using qi, then just unpack everything on partition 1 Aug 09 18:27:02 nothing more :P Aug 09 18:27:13 not using qi yet Aug 09 18:27:26 probably will once Android 1.5 gets stable (seems to require qi) Aug 09 18:29:22 ossguy: beware, android uses some bad qi fork Aug 09 18:29:44 you can't use a stock qi? Aug 09 18:31:13 ossguy: you can't Aug 09 18:32:34 good to know Aug 09 18:32:45 seems a bit odd, though Aug 09 18:32:59 I'm not sure what features of Android would require them to do that Aug 09 18:33:49 I booted koolu 7 but didn't get any sound Aug 09 18:34:14 really pissed me off once I figured out it wrote over the flash :P Aug 09 18:34:47 i.e. you booted the installer? :) Aug 09 18:35:38 * Kero is not aware of what he changed. But SIM Auth won't show me its numbers anymore... Aug 09 18:39:07 what's the difference between "illume" and "illume shr" Aug 09 18:39:11 ? Aug 09 18:39:24 this is in the profile menu when first booting SHR Aug 09 18:43:53 * Kero upgrades. will bloody reinstall on new uSD tomorrow :( Aug 09 18:46:30 ossguy: "illume them SHR (customized)" Aug 09 18:47:09 so I guess the customized one is better? Aug 09 18:47:11 Kero: don't uprade! Aug 09 18:47:12 Joplin wrote "Mercedes Benz" together with the poet Michael McClure and Bob Neuwirth, as a critical social commentary on how people relate happiness to money and material possessions. Aug 09 18:47:52 actually joplin didn't write a single worf of it Aug 09 18:48:58 at least according to McClure in an interview in TV (woodstock special) Aug 09 18:49:15 i assume worf was written by gene roddenberry and company :-) Aug 09 18:49:25 yo Aug 09 18:50:02 not by gene roddenberry but one of the epigones Aug 09 18:50:35 i guess Aug 09 18:51:45 DocScrutinizer: GUI had become useless anyway. these packages throughout SHR are very fragile. I have to go back to pure 20090703 anyway. Aug 09 18:52:25 Kero: huh? Aug 09 18:52:45 what's wrong wit 88SHR-U ? Aug 09 18:53:14 I like it very much so far :-) Aug 09 18:53:36 I tried a couple of very small changes. and somehow, this vital SIM AUth window/application has broken layout. Cant use it anymore. Same for Dialer. Aug 09 18:54:50 cn just see the bottom half of the word "Contactlist" in the latter. As if everything is dumped on (0, 0) of the screen Aug 09 18:54:52 aah, changes. Well I dunno what changes you applied, but probably illume isn't very tolerant to any changes, at least if done carelessly or without good knowledge Aug 09 18:55:16 the wonder of `ipkg install` is that you don't see what the changes are. Aug 09 18:55:38 mompl, let me duplicate that Aug 09 18:55:58 so I'm blaming libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 until I have reason otherwise. Aug 09 18:57:18 Kero: has to be your changes. Looks like it ever did here, i.e. a nice "click to open contactlist." centered in the number field Aug 09 18:58:10 Kero: did you select "illume theme SHR" (see above ) Aug 09 19:01:28 Kero: (the wonder of `ipkg install` is) so you say your changes were a mere "opkg install foo" and that borked your dialer and SIM-auth? Aug 09 19:02:06 Kero: if so, WHAT was it you installed? Aug 09 19:02:48 do you have any hint/suggestion/bias for me to install either SHR or FDOM? phone calls are not important, I just want to have wifi and gps/tangogps working (ootb, if possible), both Om 2008 and Om 2009 were driving me mad Aug 09 19:03:08 SHR Aug 09 19:03:25 FDOM is dead AIUI Aug 09 19:04:16 tangogps works ootb on SHR-U (well with a few flaws that need to be fixed in tango itself) Aug 09 19:04:17 buluca: yes, fdom is dead for long time Aug 09 19:04:19 thanks DocScrutinizer :-D Aug 09 19:04:56 buluca: http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/full-om-gta02.jffs2 Aug 09 19:04:59 by the way, I think I will annoy you with networking issues and other stuff ;) Aug 09 19:05:14 DocScrutinizer: fine. and what kernel? Aug 09 19:05:17 buluca: wifi is still kinda flakey Aug 09 19:05:25 :/ Aug 09 19:05:38 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin Aug 09 19:06:30 (wifi) but that'S probably a kernel driver issue and statement valid for all openmoko distri Aug 09 19:06:46 DocScrutinizer: I guess too ;) Aug 09 19:07:29 (kernel) or at least connman/Mokonnect (which still is better than the unbearable MoFi) Aug 09 19:08:11 DocScrutinizer: is uboot ok? Aug 09 19:08:23 yup, basically yes Aug 09 19:09:01 you might want to update eventually, to have a few important improvements (wake reason, dunno what else) Aug 09 19:09:14 will see :) Aug 09 19:09:34 boot from EXT3 iirc Aug 09 19:10:28 PaulFertser probably will know better (as people know their enemies very close usually ;-) Aug 09 19:11:00 DocScrutinizer: what does he develop/maintain? ;) Aug 09 19:11:04 buluca: nothing Aug 09 19:11:05 paul doesn't like uBoot, but he's savvy Aug 09 19:11:30 Qi seems ok, too Aug 09 19:11:56 buluca: don't start too many battles same time Aug 09 19:12:22 And no, i don't know much about OM u-boot deficiencies. But i can tell you that judging by the fact it's still not merged upstream... well, use it if you know why do you need it and not simple, clean and hackable Qi ;) Aug 09 19:12:26 make yourself comfortable with whatever distro, then eventually care about bootloader Aug 09 19:12:36 DocScrutinizer: as the first thing, I just want to have tangogps up and running and logging ;) Aug 09 19:13:09 so nevermind botloader for now Aug 09 19:13:29 DocScrutinizer: as a Debian guy, I'll have Debian on a larger µSD soon Aug 09 19:13:40 install 88SHR and enjoy Aug 09 19:14:13 heh, so you will have a friend in Paul ;-) Aug 09 19:14:35 IIRC he's also using debian Aug 09 19:15:13 cya Aug 09 19:15:22 cy :) Aug 09 19:16:35 I do. Aug 09 19:16:48 And tangogps works well. Aug 09 19:17:12 PaulFertser: I will, but ATM I don't have a sd card large enough Aug 09 19:17:54 buluca: i installed debian on stock 512Mb card and used for some time. Aug 09 19:18:51 DocScrutinizer: best bet, libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2-0 broke my stuff Aug 09 19:18:55 PaulFertser: but IIRC there's little spare space Aug 09 19:19:26 buluca: yes, not much, especially when you start download big maps. Aug 09 19:19:44 so what's 88SHR, an image of yesterday? Aug 09 19:19:46 buluca: and i like navit approach better anyway but i've never tried it. Aug 09 19:20:18 Kero: AIUI that's work in progress and very likely will bork everything. I'm astonished it only broke some layout Aug 09 19:20:25 PaulFertser: yep Aug 09 19:22:13 Kero: http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-full-glibc-ipk--20090808-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 09 19:22:53 * Kero will take the gta01 version Aug 09 19:23:12 and as I'm buying larger uSD tomorrow, I can try many distros Aug 09 19:24:57 oh man, RANJAN is so wierd :S Aug 09 19:24:59 still have that little question, I have a beautiful image I want to use as background. enlightenment? illume? where do I configure it? X background is drawn over. Aug 09 19:26:50 hmm, how can I disable CLIR? only with prefixing numbers? or is there som AT command? Aug 09 19:28:53 xyzz: shr-settings-phone "call-settings" "show my number" Aug 09 19:30:24 (om2009) ... is there some more generic way? :) Aug 09 19:31:01 no idea. for sure there's a framework-method via dbus Aug 09 19:32:01 ok, I will finaly check that SHR ... Aug 09 19:32:22 but if there's no interface for that in 2009-gui, then you won't know what the dialer app is doing with that "more generic mode" Aug 09 19:33:27 right Aug 09 19:39:32 is there some way to get SHR to remember the auto-suspend setting across reboots? Aug 09 19:39:56 when I disable auto-suspend and then reboot, I find that it has been magically re-enabled (probably never saved in the first place) Aug 09 19:42:28 nope. Aug 09 19:43:22 you may start an "app" in initscript (or any other means) to allocate the resource to stop autosuspend Aug 09 19:44:19 I see Aug 09 19:44:33 it seems logical that tangoGPS would disable autosuspend, but it doesn't seem to by default Aug 09 19:44:48 btw, it seems that one can turn it off globally: http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Tweaks#Turnoffauto-suspend Aug 09 19:44:53 will try that now Aug 09 19:45:40 yaml-rules I guess? Aug 09 19:46:14 not sure what you mean Aug 09 19:49:26 hmm, wasn't aware of that Aug 09 19:52:47 btusb_intr_complete: hci0 urb c648c920 failed to resubmit (19) Aug 09 19:53:13 btusb_send_frame: hci0 urb c648c920 submission failed Aug 09 19:53:50 mmm but why does it freeze here? Aug 09 20:01:31 DocScrutinizer: how do I allocate the resource to stop autosuspend? Aug 09 20:01:44 I tried the tweak I linked to and it didn't work Aug 09 20:04:44 ossguy: fsoraw -r Display sh -c "echo 'close me (^D) to stop autosuspen-block'; cat >jdev/null" Aug 09 20:05:16 s/jdev/\/dev/ Aug 09 20:05:41 ossguy: fsoraw -r Display sh -c "echo 'close me (^D) to stop autosuspen-block'; cat >/dev/null" Aug 09 20:05:45 in /usr/share/applications/tangogps.desktop you mean? Aug 09 20:07:03 for stopping autosuspend during tango is running, do "fsoraw -r CPU tankogps". Edit the *.desktop file of tango Aug 09 20:07:21 do 16gb microsd cards work with the freerunner? Aug 09 20:07:30 yup Aug 09 20:07:46 cool Aug 09 20:07:59 now i just have to hunt one of those beasts down Aug 09 20:08:16 you can be happy if they have 4gb cards in the local shops Aug 09 20:08:25 I'd be careful with buying a microSD card Aug 09 20:08:28 *here Aug 09 20:08:34 some cards don't work very nicely with the FreeRunner Aug 09 20:08:58 check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Aug 09 20:09:54 I've had good luck with the SDSDQ-2048-E11MK (not SDHC, but listed on the page as working) Aug 09 20:10:09 yeah, just saw the list Aug 09 20:10:15 I had bad experiences with a 2GB Transcend card Aug 09 20:10:28 but i thought the problems were gone now Aug 09 20:10:36 I thought it would work because the FreeRunner ships with a Transcend card, but it didn't Aug 09 20:10:50 i'm using qi anyway and some andy tracking kernel Aug 09 20:10:52 I'm not sure how the problems would disappear Aug 09 20:11:04 yeah, I guess if you're using a newer bootloader you might have better luck Aug 09 20:12:19 hmmm. i should prolly read up how wide the bus is Aug 09 20:12:27 maybe class 6 won't do any good Aug 09 20:12:53 I wouldn't buy anything _but_ class 6 :) Aug 09 20:13:04 "The bus is limited in speed to about 7 Mb/s." Aug 09 20:13:05 not sure why you'd what to avoid it Aug 09 20:13:06 nokia class2 16GB fine here Aug 09 20:13:19 ok, fair enough Aug 09 20:13:24 so class 6 would be the most you get out of it Aug 09 20:13:26 but shouldn't it properly throttle its bus? Aug 09 20:13:37 not that there is any official higher standard yet Aug 09 20:14:19 well, since i will prolly only run the card in the fr, i don't need a class 6 card, if the bus would've been cut at 2Mb/s Aug 09 20:15:06 fair enough Aug 09 20:15:08 actually it seems to max out at 1.5 Aug 09 20:15:30 glamo interface issue Aug 09 20:16:54 bought a 16GB transcend (iirc) which was borked - on all systems, not only FR Aug 09 20:18:28 DocScrutinizer: hmmm .ok Aug 09 20:28:48 where does one get the fsoraw binary? Aug 09 20:37:01 DocScrutinizer: have you use fsoraw yourself before? Aug 09 20:37:24 sure Aug 09 20:37:41 where do you get it from? did you compile it yourself? Aug 09 20:38:12 should be included in SHR Aug 09 20:38:37 I don't see it Aug 09 20:38:43 running 21 Jul 2009 version Aug 09 20:39:11 not in my path and "find / -name fsoraw -print" returns nothing Aug 09 20:39:12 OUCH, DEPRECATED INSTABLE VERSION Aug 09 20:39:17 oh yeah? Aug 09 20:39:24 ERKS capslock Aug 09 20:40:18 perhaps http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR_User_Manual#Getting_SHR should be fixed then Aug 09 20:40:28 it recommends downloading the image I'm using Aug 09 20:40:46 to be precise, it recommends http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta02.tar.gz Aug 09 20:42:44 does anyone know, why the Neo GPS always thinks that I'm moving, even if I'm stationary? Aug 09 20:43:05 RamsesFSFE: I'm pretty sure that happens with all consumer GPS receivers Aug 09 20:43:06 gps inaccuracy?. Aug 09 20:43:10 it's just the nature of the technology Aug 09 20:44:10 ossguy, ahm, no Aug 09 20:44:30 ossguy, my Garmin 60CSx doesn't do this Aug 09 20:45:05 ossguy: fsoraw is acually missing in current image :-( too bad. Aug 09 20:45:37 ossguy: check my ticket http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/393 Aug 09 20:45:45 RamsesFSFE: average over longer time period? Aug 09 20:45:51 you'll find source for binary iirc Aug 09 20:45:51 DocScrutinizer: so am I using a proper image then? Aug 09 20:46:20 ossguy: I recommended image three times last 4 hours Aug 09 20:46:35 lindi, it says that I'm moving with a speed of about 1 km/h Aug 09 20:46:35 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-full-glibc-ipk--20090808-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 09 20:46:50 and siblings Aug 09 20:55:47 RamsesFSFE: it's all in how the software interprets the GPS trace Aug 09 20:56:05 tangoGPS doesn't try to infer anything about how you're moving Aug 09 20:56:19 so it shows you're moving because that's what the GPS coords say Aug 09 20:56:41 ossguy: the proprietary software running on the arm processor that does the gps calculations does try to estimate speed Aug 09 20:56:43 I suspect your Garmin receiver has some built-in logic to detect when you're probably not moving and then tell you that Aug 09 20:57:05 instead of basing its decision solely on the raw coords Aug 09 20:58:52 lindi-: so does tangoGPS use that or create its own? Aug 09 20:59:05 ossguy: probably uses that Aug 09 20:59:35 ossguy: xgps and cgps at least use whatever they can read from the serial port Aug 09 21:00:53 DocScrutinizer: sorry, I missed those earlier Aug 09 21:01:24 I assumed the SHR User Manual on the wiki provided the right links Aug 09 21:01:38 but it looks like it points to an older fs image Aug 09 21:01:43 though the kernel is the same Aug 09 21:05:55 ossguy, IMHO, that's a bug Aug 09 21:12:46 ossguy: sorry I'm dumbass... "opkg install fsoraw" Aug 09 21:13:05 DocScrutinizer: I tried that but was informed it didn't exist Aug 09 21:13:19 but if you say my image is old and broken, I'll just get the new one Aug 09 21:13:28 yup Aug 09 21:17:59 ossguy: opkg is now known as opkg-cl ;-) wait a minute, I test if it succeeds Aug 09 21:19:29 yo, Downloading http://build.foo.bar...fsoraw_0.0.1-r0_armv4.ipk Aug 09 21:19:47 configuring fsoraw... Aug 09 21:19:49 done Aug 09 21:21:18 ossguy: you might want to read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_Resources Aug 09 21:29:27 fsck Aug 09 21:30:46 .roo ? :) Aug 09 21:30:58 Just remove the newsflash Aug 09 21:31:03 as it's not new Aug 09 21:31:04 :) Aug 09 21:31:14 ack Aug 09 21:31:19 and add a /tar.gz/other formats Aug 09 21:31:20 :) Aug 09 21:43:31 How do I add the opkg.org repo? Aug 09 21:45:22 Digital_Pioneer, to what distro? Aug 09 21:45:50 (because if it's shr, just for you to know, who highly discourage that) Aug 09 21:45:58 just give us a link to the sources of your wanted app Aug 09 21:46:02 and we'll add it to our repos Aug 09 21:50:04 TAsn: SHR-U... Aug 09 21:50:10 Why is that discouraged? Aug 09 21:50:49 Digital_Pioneer, because we can't assure the quality of those packages Aug 09 21:50:58 please just ask for packages Aug 09 21:51:00 and you'll get them Aug 09 21:51:02 in our repos Aug 09 21:51:53 All of the nEo packages. Aug 09 21:52:20 My phone capability in SHR-U is COMPLETELY gone. Aug 09 21:52:28 It refuses to even see a network. Aug 09 21:52:58 is ophonekitd running? Aug 09 21:53:31 Nope. Aug 09 21:53:34 It's not starting it. Aug 09 21:53:41 (Just started it myself) Aug 09 21:54:17 It won't turn the darn antenna on... Aug 09 21:54:31 Screw this... I'm gonna have to reflash. Again. Aug 09 21:54:38 then look into /var/log/ophonekitd.log Aug 09 21:55:03 should say there something about that Aug 09 21:56:29 DocScrutinizer: what about http://www.opkg.org/package_2.html? ;) Aug 09 21:56:53 huh? Aug 09 21:57:42 Digital_Pioneer, DO NOT OPKG UPGRADE Aug 09 21:58:01 we'll release a new testing image soon (hopefully) Aug 09 21:58:23 * Wonka is slightly pissed about not being able to "opkg upgrade"... Aug 09 21:58:40 i'd need to do _all_ my changes again after every f***ing new image Aug 09 21:58:54 and that's not nearly funny Aug 09 21:58:58 Digital_Pioneer, just reflash Aug 09 21:59:00 DocScrutinizer: sorry, meant TAsn Aug 09 21:59:12 Wonka: install Debian Aug 09 21:59:13 Wonka, we know Aug 09 21:59:19 that's why we are realeasing Aug 09 21:59:24 a testing image Aug 09 21:59:26 (trying at least) Aug 09 21:59:32 so you won't have to reflash all the time. Aug 09 21:59:36 Jozo: i have debian. debian has no ophonekitd... Aug 09 21:59:50 Wonka: package it Aug 09 22:01:19 *sigh* that's what i wanted to leave to others ;) Aug 09 22:01:35 is paroli going to come to SHR? Aug 09 22:01:52 (and what's different in paroli?) Aug 09 22:10:14 TAsn: _iff_ there's some time, eventually, could we get http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_3D in SHR? ;) Aug 09 22:10:46 I think there's some sort of copyright/lack of source issues Aug 09 22:10:56 though if you give us proof that it's legit Aug 09 22:10:59 just open a ticket Aug 09 22:11:02 and we'll pack it Aug 09 22:11:26 Wonka, TAsn: i don't think it works with recent kernels Aug 09 22:11:28 well, the source code is GPL, and the game data is shareware Aug 09 22:11:43 Wonka, then just open a ticket Aug 09 22:11:45 we'll pack it. Aug 09 22:11:55 dos1, :| Aug 09 22:12:10 dos1: i might look into it while on HAR2009... Aug 09 22:12:20 dos1, btw, what about my wiki entry? (I know I'm annoying though I really want to get it going) Aug 09 22:12:39 if necessary after finding out how to build stuff for FR Aug 09 22:12:47 DocScrutinizer: "opkg-cl install fsoraw": Cannot find package fsoraw. Aug 09 22:13:08 TAsn: then help me ;P Aug 09 22:13:16 using build from 08 Aug 2009 18:35:43 +0200 according to /etc/shr-version Aug 09 22:13:20 dos1, why didn't you ask before? Aug 09 22:13:22 tell me what you need. Aug 09 22:13:27 :D Aug 09 22:13:39 ossguy, opkg-cl update? Aug 09 22:13:51 as long as I don't upgrade? :) Aug 09 22:14:40 thanks; that did it Aug 09 22:14:56 <[Rui]> who had the so great idea of using connmand, really? Aug 09 22:15:05 seems odd for an update to pull in new packages Aug 09 22:15:16 especially when the image is only one day old Aug 09 22:47:13 Has SHR been fixed since about an hour or so ago? Aug 09 22:47:21 erm actually more like 4 or 5. Aug 09 23:02:19 jjwc, no. Aug 09 23:02:26 we are waiting for a fix from fso Aug 09 23:04:38 TAsn: okay, thanks for the info. I guess this is the time to play with other distributions then :) Aug 10 00:35:48 TAsn: Oh, opkg upgrading breaks everything now? Aug 10 00:36:06 now? Aug 10 00:36:09 did it ever work before? Aug 10 00:36:18 Yeah, it's almost always worked for me. Aug 10 00:36:40 I never tried it, but mainly because of all the reports of it breaking everything Aug 10 00:37:01 ndnihil: It never broke much for me. Aug 10 00:37:18 ndnihil: What it did break, typically got fixed a couple days later after the next one. Aug 10 00:37:54 ndnihil: Right now though, it annihilates the entire GSM system... Aug 10 00:37:59 eek Aug 10 00:38:01 And all of Frameworkd, I imagine. Aug 10 00:38:32 huh i did it just like two days ago and it broke nothing Aug 10 00:39:06 drascus321: It killed everything for me. :( Aug 10 00:39:32 himm maybe it was something specific to your install but that's just a guess Aug 10 00:39:39 drascus321: Possible. Aug 10 00:39:49 when I did it, it was on a fresh install Aug 10 00:40:16 Mine was on a fairly fresh install, but it wasn't really an opkg upgrade. It was reinstalling every package that was on my system before I reflashed. Aug 10 00:40:21 Which apparently does not work. Aug 10 00:49:13 well maybe it's not just you i just did ipkg_listupgradable and it was like a bunch of stuff Aug 10 00:50:04 i am not even attempting it i just got this thing working the way i want Aug 10 00:51:34 has anyone else run an upgrade today that could shed some light on things Aug 10 00:58:59 Digital_Pioneer: no, only fsousaged Aug 10 00:59:15 Digital_Pioneer: GSM and frameworkd is working ok, but ophonekitd needs ousaged interface to register to GSM network Aug 10 00:59:33 Digital_Pioneer: quick workaround can be disabling fsousaged and enabling ousaged back Aug 10 01:00:15 Digital_Pioneer: image from 8.08 is fine. 9.08 was builded broken package. Aug 10 01:00:28 Digital_Pioneer: so if you don't care about flashing, then just flash newest image Aug 10 01:00:39 Digital_Pioneer: but if you don't want reflashing, then enable ousaged Aug 10 01:05:31 * jjwc is liking QtMoko quite a bit. Aug 10 02:12:30 iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 Aug 10 02:12:31 sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Aug 10 02:12:31 ifconfig eth2 up Aug 10 02:12:31 ip addr add 192.168.0.200/28 dev eth2 Aug 10 02:12:31 ip addr add 192.168.0.200/28 dev eth2 Aug 10 02:12:31 ssh root@192.168.0.202 Aug 10 02:12:38 thats funny Aug 10 02:13:00 ip addr add 192.168.0.200/28 dev eth2_rename Aug 10 02:20:34 Where do I get the latest SHR-U image? Aug 10 02:23:32 build.shr-project.org I think it is Aug 10 02:24:59 ndnihil: Yeah, but all I can find is a dir listing of hundreds of files... It'll take forever to find the latest one. Aug 10 02:25:07 check the dates Aug 10 02:25:11 And only the kernel has "latest" in it. Aug 10 02:25:19 Yeah, well what's the date of the latest one? Aug 10 02:25:30 the most recent date listed I'd imagine Aug 10 02:25:33 the one with the most recent date? Aug 10 02:31:12 Yeah, but they were sorted alphabetically, so the dates were all mixed up. I just realized I can sort by date instead. :P Aug 10 02:34:32 you could also do the unthinkable... and read the dates :) Aug 10 02:41:57 * rooly is sore Aug 10 02:42:56 http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ Aug 10 02:43:35 drascus321: how in the hell does that possibly help the lactic acid built up in my muscles? Aug 10 02:44:41 I don't know I was answering a question posted like 20min ago I left my window scrolled up by accident Aug 10 02:45:17 oh, okay Aug 10 02:45:21 :) Aug 10 02:45:44 release the lactic acid Aug 10 02:45:57 hrmph Aug 10 02:46:00 's not that easy Aug 10 02:46:05 oh lactic acid problems how about leaches Aug 10 02:47:12 but i NEED my blood... Aug 10 02:48:25 are u mussel building? Aug 10 02:48:31 c Aug 10 02:48:53 no Aug 10 02:48:58 well see that's why I never got a medical degree Aug 10 02:48:59 but i have brothers and a pool... Aug 10 02:51:34 work it off Aug 10 02:51:43 i plan to sleep it off **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 10 02:59:57 2009