**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 11 02:59:57 2009 Aug 11 03:00:13 hmm and sometimes right arrow doesnt work at all Aug 11 03:00:15 ? Aug 11 03:00:31 you hit right arrow *a second time* and insted of leaving term the kbd popps up Aug 11 03:00:42 really odd Aug 11 03:01:02 hmm well right now i'm unlikely to fix it as i'm totally redoing illume internals in a new module and stripping everything apart Aug 11 03:01:19 ie layout logic totally separate from launcher, top shelf/bar etc. etc. Aug 11 03:01:53 or I swiffel over term right right left left and each time icome from right theres kbd and from left there isn't Aug 11 03:02:57 -sh: opkg: not found on shr-unstable 0808 Aug 11 03:03:00 very odd Aug 11 03:03:07 yes Aug 11 03:03:12 anybody have that problem? Aug 11 03:03:27 and random Aug 11 03:03:34 hymm odd. Aug 11 03:03:36 * jjwc hasn't had a working SHR installation since fsousaged died Aug 11 03:03:57 So I'm just playing with Android and QtMoko Aug 11 03:04:17 man android is annoying Aug 11 03:04:23 anyway night Aug 11 03:04:26 erased qtmoko today Aug 11 03:04:28 DocScrutinizer: nite! Aug 11 03:05:14 so is it my rootfs or somebody have this problem to? Aug 11 03:05:43 dunno Aug 11 03:06:17 Slaxxer: did you try to run opkg before and did it try to update itself? Aug 11 03:07:39 i did opkg update an got that errorr Aug 11 03:08:15 me error Aug 11 03:08:53 it might be a corrupt rootfs if no one has this error Aug 11 03:08:53 I know that there was an image from late July or so that had some issues when updating without having some swap space. Aug 11 03:09:26 Try re-flashing your rootfs, and next time you run opkg update and opkg upgrade, make a small swapfile on your SD card first. Aug 11 03:09:54 Try re-flashing your rootfs, and next time you run opkg update and opkg upgrade, make a small swapfile on your SD card first. Aug 11 04:02:36 so it must be the 0808 shr Aug 11 04:03:27 opkg not found Aug 11 04:04:19 old shr? Aug 11 04:05:52 Where did you download the image from? Aug 11 04:07:21 buildhost Aug 11 04:08:02 it might be corrupt because i moved it to a folder in mid download Aug 11 04:08:50 but i redownloaded it an reinstlled it a have the same problem Aug 11 04:09:10 so its going to be rootfs related Aug 11 04:10:24 Ah, you might want to try that again. Aug 11 04:10:42 * jjwc is over in Android-land, so he can't compare system environments Aug 11 04:11:47 wifi on android? Aug 11 04:12:10 bluetooth work? Aug 11 04:12:15 Haven't had luck with wifi anywhere. Aug 11 04:12:48 I've tried several distros with no luck. But my router config has a hidden SSID and wpa encryption. Aug 11 04:13:06 When I get back to school, I'll see if it works. Aug 11 04:13:10 Supposedly it should. Aug 11 04:13:43 Not sure about Bluetooth yet Aug 11 04:16:38 neighbors router? Aug 11 04:17:18 maybe they will let u test? Aug 11 04:33:43 opkg is broken/missing on the latest shr Aug 11 04:48:09 hello Aug 11 04:48:57 I've just received my freerunner. But I can't open settings application. The screen displays a loading message and then nothing. Aug 11 04:49:12 is that a known issue? is there a workaround to open it? Aug 11 04:50:54 have you flashed it to a current dist yet? Aug 11 04:51:38 no, I haven't Aug 11 04:52:05 so it's still running OM2007? Aug 11 04:52:20 ndnihil, yes, it is. Aug 11 04:52:43 that's pretty outdated, no longer maintained, and if I remember right, not very usable Aug 11 04:53:27 there are several dists to choose from Aug 11 04:53:42 flashing to a current version of one of them might be a good idea Aug 11 04:54:37 ndnihil, I know. But I can't do the upgrade right now. I wanted to configure the wireless network, but I guess it's not going to be an easy task :) Aug 11 04:54:49 not on 2007 it wont be Aug 11 04:55:37 ndnihil, well, thanks anyway. I'll return tomorrow if I have problems with the installation of om2008 Aug 11 04:55:45 flashing it can be intimidating at first, but it's not that bad Aug 11 04:56:01 almost cut&paste easy from the wiki entry Aug 11 04:57:12 07212009 shr-unstable is a good 1 Aug 11 05:00:37 Slaxxer, I want to try om first. Then I think I'm going play with the other distributions. Aug 11 05:03:01 bytestore user had a 2008.12 image that was cool Aug 11 05:05:38 qtmoko was ok Aug 11 05:36:19 ndnihil: i'm a debian user ;) Aug 11 05:36:36 ndnihil: ah, gsm fw upgrade, ok Aug 11 05:37:29 d1b: you must upgrade gsm firmware. It fixes flow control bugs, wake-on-incoming call bug and issues with some sim cards (and most probably you'll have one of those sooner or later). Aug 11 05:51:20 PaulFertser: would this allow me to, say, run qtopia 4.3.2 with less problems Aug 11 05:51:32 as in, correctly receiving sms Aug 11 05:52:03 rooly: well, proper flow control is important in general. No idea if it helps with receiving smses in qtopia or not. What's the problem there? Aug 11 05:52:10 well Aug 11 05:52:14 old os btw Aug 11 05:52:19 like year + old Aug 11 05:52:22 anywho Aug 11 05:52:43 back when i was using it, it would wakeup properly on incoming sms and phone call Aug 11 05:53:13 however, it seemed almost as if it took too long to wake up, and the gsm interrupt timed out Aug 11 05:53:26 it would happen in om2008 as well Aug 11 05:53:45 rooly: gsm interrupt can't timeout. Aug 11 05:53:49 ic Aug 11 05:53:54 so then it was a pure software glitch Aug 11 05:54:03 aight, no qtopia forme Aug 11 05:54:06 rooly: trust me, it's a single line of code incrementing interrupt counter basically. Aug 11 05:54:40 jesus...someone is hammering in the apt above me Aug 11 05:54:49 i'm gonna have to take a broom to the ceiling Aug 11 05:54:50 rooly: also, there were many issues with proper wakeup back in the time, fixed now. Aug 11 05:55:09 PaulFertser: is it fixed with qi/uboot, or is it fixed kernel level Aug 11 05:55:55 cause newer kernels won't work with such an old os due to the moved userspace Aug 11 05:55:58 rooly: it requires both proper kernel and userspace. Aug 11 05:58:44 PaulFertser: the sad fact is that it requires a daemon that runs as _root_ Aug 11 05:59:05 lindi-: this time your point is moot ;) Aug 11 05:59:06 (or hmm, can you chown the sysfs entry?) Aug 11 05:59:16 lindi-: as flowcontrolled sysfs node can be chowned. Aug 11 05:59:22 yeah, lost this one :) Aug 11 05:59:23 In a predictable way. Aug 11 05:59:35 lindi-: what about that bugticket? Did Greg write anything? Aug 11 05:59:50 lindi-: because it indeed looks like a design issue. Aug 11 06:01:38 PaulFertser: it was closed as INVALID. I was asked to use HAL git head from December that has leds class support Aug 11 06:02:04 PaulFertser: when I have time I'll benchmark how long it takes for me to turn the led on with HAL on incoming call Aug 11 06:02:52 lindi-: hal is deprecated anyway. Whom was it marked invalid by? Aug 11 06:04:16 mooh. Aug 11 06:04:46 just updated whats left of the servers. please cry to me if i broke something you liked Aug 11 06:05:12 PaulFertser: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11612 Aug 11 06:05:25 PaulFertser: sorry, i'm really busy at work today and probably rest of the week Aug 11 06:06:15 lindi-: i hope it is at least pleasant kind of work :) Aug 11 06:07:31 .oO(fsck.. gismo was right.. after some amount of time, even system administration gets monotonous somehow.. like.. doing dishes) Aug 11 06:07:54 lindi-: i'd send a mail to Greg personally CCing LKML asking about trigger nodes that come and go. Mentioning that suggestion to use hal is suboptimal at least because hal is being deprecated by major distros. Aug 11 06:08:00 PaulFertser: it involves Ada and Perl :) Aug 11 06:08:25 roh: aren't you afraid to say that? Imagine some hard drive fails to bring a fresh stream in your life ;) Aug 11 06:09:05 PaulFertser not really... not being paid for it takes the fun out of it when its a big task like openmoko Aug 11 06:09:24 roh: sure, i understand... Aug 11 06:09:52 just doing simple updates, no trouble like gforge locking up or so took 2 hours.... ok.. i was bored and i saw the yellow lamp a few weeks now Aug 11 06:11:07 don't get me wrong.. i like working in oss projects.. but somehow one needs to pay rent ;) Aug 11 06:13:04 roh: in fact i'm a bit surprised that someone finds system administration interesting at all ;) Aug 11 06:13:37 lindi-: btw, do you know any decent command-line way of making dbus calls except dbus-send or python shell? Aug 11 06:13:48 mdbus? Aug 11 06:14:01 PaulFertser its a question of scope. and mostly its more integration work than only administative. Aug 11 06:14:39 it gets more interresting if its not a simple task anymore Aug 11 06:14:56 rooly: not cutting it. Just slightly easier to introspect and also ability to view clients/servers. Aug 11 06:15:07 i was just throwing that out there Aug 11 06:15:22 roh: for me it gets more interesting when i have to look at the source to understand how to make things work ;) Aug 11 06:15:51 PaulFertser well.. thats nothing one doesnt need to do there. Aug 11 06:16:52 i dont know how one could do such a job at all without the ability to read all languages used there and atleast code a few Aug 11 06:16:54 roh: it's widely believed among russian windows sysadmins that one needs to use a shaman tambourine regularly for the things to work. Aug 11 06:17:18 as far as my experiences with win32 and administrating it go.. they are right. Aug 11 06:17:25 some voodoo priest could also come handy Aug 11 06:17:57 .oO(thats why i like my .deb based stuff) Aug 11 06:18:06 okay Aug 11 06:18:06 nn Aug 11 06:18:08 i'm out Aug 11 06:23:45 PaulFertser but in the essence you are right... sysadministration gets boring and i usuall do it only because its neccessary atm. i use most time at raumfahrtagentur now Aug 11 06:25:14 roh: am i supposed to know what that cryptic multi-root german word means? ;) I assume that's something to do with your cool cnc equipment. Aug 11 06:26:27 yep Aug 11 06:27:19 http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Raumfahrtagentur https://m21.hyte.de/ Aug 11 06:38:15 "Pizza/SMD Oven" nice Aug 11 06:41:03 when an alarm is set, Neo w/ 2.6.29 kernel wakes from suspend every minute or so. without alarm set, remains suspended. Aug 11 06:43:05 Kero: i don't see that. please report a bug with exact steps to reproduce, I can try it later when I have time Aug 11 06:43:33 lindi-: you don't have gta01, that might make quite a differenc. Aug 11 06:43:51 lindi-: so, are you going to mail Greg that sysfs question or do you prefer me to do that? Aug 11 06:45:47 lindi-: indeed, gta01; report at SHR, alarms app, general openmoko-dev? all of them? Aug 11 06:46:08 Kero: hm, let me think Aug 11 06:46:51 Kero: first you need to confirm that's a kernel issue. Aug 11 06:48:22 Kero: i'm sure you can use python shell to set an alarm. Just import pyrtc and see http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=python-helpers.git;a=tree;f=pyrtc;hb=HEAD for the reference. Before that disable GSM (probably by turning off ophonekitd completely). Then suspend the manual way (echo mem >/sys/power/state). Aug 11 06:48:54 PaulFertser: i'll mail when I have some benchmarks, that can take time Aug 11 06:49:05 Kero: no gta01 here so can't help :/ Aug 11 06:49:10 Kero: Try several times, with and without alarm. Once you're sure that's a kernel issue, report at docs.openmoko.org with category set to "system software". Aug 11 06:49:44 lindi-: are you sure benchmarking hal matters despite it's considered deprecated? Aug 11 06:49:59 PaulFertser: well, something else is going to replace it Aug 11 06:50:06 lindi-: policykit? Aug 11 06:51:52 PaulFertser: I am not sure Aug 11 07:05:49 PaulFertser: will do that tonight Aug 11 07:05:55 Kero: cool :D Aug 11 07:07:27 PaulFertser: but if you have time, sure, send mail to that bug report Aug 11 07:08:12 lindi-: i'd prefer to ask Greg and LKML because that bugtracker is not widely read. Aug 11 07:08:22 PaulFertser: ledctrl is about to become my very first debian package so yes I'm bit worried if this hal/policykit beast makes its life harder :) Aug 11 07:09:16 PaulFertser: ok, i don't unfortunately have time to follow full lkml Aug 11 07:09:33 lindi-: neither me, i can't even follow lakml Aug 11 08:02:42 are there any known issues with the sdcard flashing method ? Aug 11 08:02:51 on a gta02 using the lastest uboot Aug 11 08:05:00 for gsm firmware? Aug 11 08:11:24 d1b: yes, the known issue is that users do not always follow the instruction Aug 11 08:13:03 PaulFertser: i have downloaded it Aug 11 08:13:07 i have dded it to the card Aug 11 08:13:14 i have not booted my device yet. Aug 11 08:13:26 i sync and ejected the media Aug 11 08:13:33 heh, did you dd to the device, or the partition Aug 11 08:13:37 ? Aug 11 08:13:49 ndnihil: the device. Aug 11 08:13:54 good man Aug 11 08:13:59 i first deleted any partitions so as to avoid any confusion Aug 11 08:14:08 people tend to overlook that bit of the instructions :) Aug 11 08:14:09 dd if=flash-moko11-2.image of=/dev/sdb Aug 11 08:14:10 552960+0 records in Aug 11 08:14:10 552960+0 records out Aug 11 08:14:10 283115520 bytes (283 MB) copied, 256.85 s, 1.1 MB/s Aug 11 08:14:14 should i continue ? Aug 11 08:14:36 I don't see why not Aug 11 08:14:40 just dont get anxious Aug 11 08:14:43 let it do its thing Aug 11 08:14:47 i have a i gsm 900/1800/1900 is this ok ? Aug 11 08:14:56 confirm / deny :) Aug 11 08:14:58 d1b: have you really read the wiki page? Aug 11 08:15:08 PaulFertser: mostly :) Aug 11 08:15:13 i read all of it Aug 11 08:15:23 d1b: well, it has a direct answer to your question. ;) Aug 11 08:15:24 but didn't pay attention to the manual / ugly method Aug 11 08:15:32 PaulFertser: nope no i tdoesn't Aug 11 08:15:34 where? Aug 11 08:15:59 it doesn't say "is ok with both gsm band versions" anywhere or 800 / 900 at all Aug 11 08:16:43 ... Aug 11 08:16:57 ive been throught the page 3 times now and haven't seen anything of note Aug 11 08:17:23 can you just confirm / deny PaulFertser Aug 11 08:17:37 d1b: "The GSM-firmware didn't differ from GTA01 to GTA02, as the GSM-hardware didn't either. " Aug 11 08:17:55 PaulFertser: eh but there wre different brand gsm modules / radios no ? Aug 11 08:18:03 that's what my question is about Aug 11 08:18:10 d1b: because the chipset is the same in all devices. Aug 11 08:18:21 PaulFertser: great -> its not on the wiki page Aug 11 08:18:23 hence the q Aug 11 08:18:39 d1b: only calibration data differs but it's written explicitly that calibration data is not affected by flashing firmware. Aug 11 08:18:55 d1b: well, i agree you're half right. ;) Aug 11 08:21:34 getting a few erros like 19 blahblah Aug 11 08:22:10 * d1b ignores errors Aug 11 08:23:40 btsend event - assume bluetooth and unrelated Aug 11 08:24:16 'bootloader release target' ... Aug 11 08:24:58 um... PaulFertser Aug 11 08:27:20 ... Aug 11 08:27:28 oh nm Aug 11 08:27:35 its doing something now Aug 11 08:27:55 03:14 < ndnihil> just dont get anxious Aug 11 08:27:55 03:14 < ndnihil> let it do its thing Aug 11 08:27:56 :) Aug 11 08:28:04 ndnihil: kk Aug 11 08:28:39 ndnihil: my first rule is leave then ask if do not know when flashing dont do it / touch Aug 11 08:28:54 else you get bricked devices Aug 11 08:29:27 gsm firmware updates are one of the few things that can easily brick the gta02 Aug 11 08:29:40 if interrupted Aug 11 08:29:53 the uSD method is pretty foolproof though Aug 11 08:30:24 i had heard you could just repeat the firmware updates Aug 11 08:30:29 the display turned off so i pushed aux Aug 11 08:30:36 yay done Aug 11 08:41:27 ndnihil: fuck Aug 11 08:41:37 ndnihil: gsm firmware update can't brick anything! Aug 11 08:41:40 ndnihil: ever! Aug 11 08:41:58 not even if interrupted? Aug 11 08:42:05 thats what I was told when I did mine Aug 11 08:42:18 nope Aug 11 08:42:24 the loader of the modem is in rom Aug 11 08:42:43 guess I got bad info Aug 11 08:42:44 atleast i didnt archieve to kill any.. and that means something Aug 11 08:43:25 and its what the code suggests Aug 11 08:43:30 ndnihil: it's clearly stated in the wiki that the loader is in ROM. Aug 11 08:43:55 I take wiki entries with a grain of salt Aug 11 08:44:00 they are rarely up to date Aug 11 08:44:08 ty/..\ Aug 11 08:44:13 rage Aug 11 08:44:22 ndnihil: i wrote the relevant part of that page myself and Joerg approved it ;) Aug 11 08:44:23 not OM specifically Aug 11 08:44:26 just wikis in general Aug 11 08:44:28 :) it works Aug 11 08:44:30 ty Aug 11 09:15:04 good morning Aug 11 09:28:39 woot woot Aug 11 09:28:59 nojack works Aug 11 09:29:03 now to add features Aug 11 09:34:39 hi, how do I use mokomaper.py? Aug 11 09:44:04 hrm, anyone else unable to select specific messages in shr-unstable? Aug 11 09:44:23 date on all SMS is displayed as 31.12.1969 too Aug 11 09:44:33 just tried upgrading it, didn't help Aug 11 10:11:08 Hmpf. Aug 11 10:11:58 should have the topic link to a page with all that info, and a timestamp as to when the page was most recently updated Aug 11 10:11:59 Damn topic length Aug 11 10:12:52 ndnihil: well yeah :-) Aug 11 10:13:06 Ainulindale: or better fix the fucking build ;) Aug 11 10:13:39 :-) Aug 11 10:13:41 Ainulindale: how are you btw? Having fun at Bearstech? Aug 11 10:13:42 I was intending to do that Aug 11 10:13:47 Very fine Aug 11 10:13:49 its scary seeing 'recommended' and 'do not upgrade' in the same block Aug 11 10:13:52 I'm alone in the office currently Aug 11 10:13:54 Listening to some Zappa Aug 11 10:14:05 Working on some network stuff Aug 11 10:27:59 who are nEo authors? Aug 11 10:28:14 i need something from them ;x Aug 11 10:30:30 dos1: blood? Aug 11 10:30:58 PaulFertser: too ;) Aug 11 10:31:26 but nEo theme doesn't decompile correctly. they did great work about removing useless layers Aug 11 10:31:53 and i did my theme based on nEo edc code, but i don't have genlist, pager, checkbox and radio theme, as decompilled file is cut :( Aug 11 10:32:53 dos1: btw, i'm reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula atm, amazing book especially considering it was written in 1893. Now i know where Van Helsing is from :) Aug 11 10:33:56 ;D Aug 11 10:34:30 Also an unusal style for novels: it's mostly journal entries and letters from various people. Aug 11 10:37:15 hi, is there someone who can explain how to "convert" the specifications given on http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/index.html;hb=HEAD to working mdbus-send commands? Aug 11 10:38:08 an example for a blinking led would be nice for example Aug 11 10:39:09 chances are that's outdated Aug 11 10:39:22 you can walk through it with mdbus though Aug 11 10:39:55 edje2: using mdbus is trivial. Aug 11 10:40:03 edje2: what exactly can't you understand? Aug 11 10:40:24 right, but also slow. mdbus-send is supposed to be faster and i did want to give it a try Aug 11 10:40:55 its dbus thats slow Aug 11 10:41:24 edje2: dbus-send is much faster than mdbus, true. Aug 11 10:41:39 can we make a comparison between the two? set the led blinking with both methods and measure the time ? Aug 11 10:41:50 edje2: go ahead. Aug 11 10:42:11 edje2: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#How_to_use_bluez4_dbus_API <-- a good example of using dbus-send Aug 11 10:42:46 i would, if i would know how to do it. dbus-send takes arguments like: --system --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.pyneo.muxer /org/pyneo/Muxer org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.AllocChannel string:$identvar Aug 11 10:43:07 how do i know what to use where if i look at the spec of FSO Aug 11 10:43:10 ? Aug 11 10:43:38 or am i missing the point completly? Aug 11 10:45:16 edje2: omit --type Aug 11 10:46:31 edje2: --dest is the dbus service you send to (corresponds to the first parameter of mdbus), then goes path (second parameter of mdbus), then function (third parameter), then arguments (in mdbus the type is automatically determined, in dbus-send you want to prepend the type just before the value). Aug 11 10:46:59 ok, but i have no idea what to use. can you explain what a dbus-send line woul look like if i want to set a led blinking. ( and how you the values from the FSO specs are used?) Aug 11 10:47:37 i guess --dest would be system in this case Aug 11 10:47:40 yes paul, examples! ;) Aug 11 10:48:09 and the logic on how to get to this examples please ! Aug 11 10:48:33 is path the same as namespace? Aug 11 10:49:44 edje2: dbus-send --system --dest=org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED/gta02_aux_red org.freesmartphone.Device.LED Aug 11 10:49:50 (wait for the rest) Aug 11 10:49:58 ok, thanks Aug 11 10:50:06 .SetBrightness int32:50 Aug 11 10:52:05 edje2: well, this exact command worked dbus-send --system --dest=org.freesmartphone.odeviced --print-reply /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED/gta02_aux_red org.freesmartphone.Device.LED.SetBrightness int32:100 Aug 11 10:52:05 ok, how does this related to the info found on: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.Device.LED.html;hb=HEAD Aug 11 10:52:28 i just can;'t make the translation found there and the example you just gave Aug 11 10:52:42 edje2: Device API -> org.freesmartphone.odeviced Aug 11 10:53:11 ndnihil: it isn't outdated Aug 11 10:53:44 edje2: path is almost the same as method name but without the function in the end and with /'s instead of .'s. Aug 11 10:53:56 ndnihil: even opimd specs are quite actial Aug 11 10:53:59 s/actial/actual/ Aug 11 10:54:00 dos1 meant: ndnihil: even opimd specs are quite actual Aug 11 10:54:09 good to know Aug 11 10:54:31 I've been uding mdbus to walk through everything Aug 11 10:54:35 edje2: to find out what leds are there you can use dbus-send --system --dest=org.freesmartphone.odeviced --print-reply /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect Aug 11 10:55:03 edje2: or just "mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced " Aug 11 10:55:08 a browseable reference would be nice, but half the docs I found listed methods and signals that weren't present Aug 11 10:55:34 ndnihil: a running frameworkd is already a browseable reference. Aug 11 10:56:11 dos1: btw, i don't exactly understand why API looks so non-dbusish. Aug 11 10:56:23 dos1: wanna see something really fancy? ;) Aug 11 10:56:29 ok, but what i am really missing is why to use org.freesmartphone.odeviced. if i look at the FSO specs i woul go looking for something like org.freesmartphone.Device.LED, not org.freesmartphone.odeviced. Aug 11 10:56:30 How do i know what to look for if i am using the FSO specs? Aug 11 10:56:47 PaulFertser: hmm? ;) Aug 11 10:56:56 edje2: you need both Aug 11 10:57:29 ok, why, and how are the linked? Aug 11 10:57:32 * ndnihil just finally got his head wrapped around dbus within the past couple days Aug 11 10:57:44 please share ! Aug 11 10:57:45 :-) Aug 11 10:58:09 org.freesmartphone.odeviced is the location on dbus where the resources you want are Aug 11 10:58:17 edje2: Device interface is provided by org.freesmartphone.odeviced service. It's supposed to be obvious, especially if you look at "mdbus -s" output to list available services. Aug 11 10:58:31 /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED/gta02_aux_red is the path to the specific attribute you want to work with Aug 11 10:58:47 org.freesmartphone.Device.LED.SetBlinking is how you want to interact with it Aug 11 10:59:13 (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) Aug 11 10:59:22 (or am using incorrect terminology) Aug 11 10:59:46 ah, ok so you first have to find out what the name is of the "device" you want to work with, and then you can execute the "action" ? Aug 11 10:59:57 more of less Aug 11 11:00:00 s/of/or/ Aug 11 11:00:01 ndnihil meant: more or less Aug 11 11:00:03 * ndnihil stabs apt Aug 11 11:00:46 but that still does not show up in the example Paul gave us, there is no mention of SetBlinking there Aug 11 11:01:00 edje2: because i used another function ;) Aug 11 11:01:03 getting perl-tk and perl-dbus compiled was less obnoxious than jumping head-first into dbus Aug 11 11:01:05 edje2: i didn't want it to blink Aug 11 11:01:22 oh, I got SetBlinking from me playing with mine Aug 11 11:01:28 not from Pauls example Aug 11 11:01:33 edje2: dbus-send --system --dest=org.freesmartphone.odeviced --print-reply /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED/gta02_aux_red org.freesmartphone.Device.LED.SetBlinking int32:100 int32:900 Aug 11 11:01:34 what woul you use if you anted it to blink Aug 11 11:01:39 ah Aug 11 11:01:42 Obviously Aug 11 11:02:41 ah, ok i think i start to get the picture now, let me play some more with it Aug 11 11:06:56 time mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED/gta02_aux_red org.freesmartphone.Device.LED.SetBlinking 500 500 Aug 11 11:06:58 real 0m2.954s Aug 11 11:06:59 time dbus-send --system --dest=org.freesmartphone.odeviced --print-reply /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED/gta02_aux_red org.freesmartphone.Device.LED.SetBlinking int32:500 int32:500 Aug 11 11:07:01 real 0m0.123s Aug 11 11:07:10 wth Aug 11 11:07:27 how does dbus-send do it faster than interacting directly with the library? Aug 11 11:09:03 does it read the data directly from disk instead of going through the daemon? Aug 11 11:14:13 ndnihil: mdbus is python Aug 11 11:14:26 ndnihil: and probably does some unnecessary introspection along the way Aug 11 11:14:34 ndnihil: dbus-send is fast C code Aug 11 11:14:40 yeah, but I'm using Net::DBus in perl Aug 11 11:14:43 should be faster Aug 11 11:15:08 nothing un-necessary, I'm only making minimum queries to dbus, just because it's slow Aug 11 11:15:13 ndnihil: mdbus is not anymore direct than dbus-send. Aug 11 11:15:14 my feeling is, that everything is faster then python Aug 11 11:15:40 dos1: http://pyneo.org/stories/2008-12-25c3/25c3-pyneo.pdf Aug 11 11:16:20 Using **pending_return in dbus_connection_send_with_reply_setup() without pending_setup is deprecated and strongly discouraged Aug 11 11:16:25 any way to suppress that? Aug 11 11:16:32 other than 2>/dev/null Aug 11 11:16:40 something in dbus maybe? Aug 11 11:16:44 ndnihil: not yet Aug 11 11:17:02 ndnihil: that's custom dbus patches included in OE to solve some nasty async problems. Aug 11 11:17:13 ndnihil: no upstream decisions on those yet :( Aug 11 11:17:22 while it can occasionally be useful to get a feel for timing, it's pretty annoying to see two pages of it Aug 11 11:17:36 and redirecting stderr isn't an option when trying to debug your scripts Aug 11 11:18:25 hmm. how do i find out what parameters are needed? i try to set screen timeout. Aug 11 11:18:27 with mdbus i use: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/IdleNotifier/0 org.freesmartphone.Device.IdleNotifier.SetTimeout idle 6000 Aug 11 11:18:29 with dbus-send i try to use: dbus-send --system --dest=org.freesmartphone.odeviced --print-reply /org/freesmartphone/Device/IdleNotifier/0 org.freesmartphone.Device.IdleNotifier.SetTimeout int32:6000 Aug 11 11:18:31 but i get TypeError: SetTimeout() takes exactly 3 arguments (2 given) Aug 11 11:19:08 edje2: exactly, you forgot the first argument (string:idle) Aug 11 11:19:47 ok, but how can i find out what i need to use? it is not in the FSO specs. Aug 11 11:20:12 ( and i still don't have a clear picture of it all....) Aug 11 11:20:40 dos1: wait, that's not the slides i wanted to show. Aug 11 11:20:52 there should be a list of arguments along with the list of signals and methods for an object Aug 11 11:21:51 you can also get them by way of mdbus Aug 11 11:21:52 mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/LED/gta02_aux_red 2>/dev/null Aug 11 11:21:59 edje2: well SetTimeout ( si ) Aug 11 11:22:10 edje2: clearly states it wants two parameters: string and integer. Aug 11 11:23:32 ndnihil: or by calling org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect Aug 11 11:24:26 all I get from that is a link Aug 11 11:24:35 '\n\n\n' Aug 11 11:24:37 Paul, where do you see it needs those 2 parameters? Aug 11 11:27:12 edje2: well SetTimeout ( si ) Aug 11 11:27:16 si Aug 11 11:27:19 string, integer Aug 11 11:27:40 edje2: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.Device.IdleNotifier.html;hb=HEAD#SetTimeout Aug 11 11:28:27 ah, ok, so wherever the SetTimeout method is used, you need those specs ? Aug 11 11:28:44 edje2: sorry? Aug 11 11:30:58 no, sorry, i am mistaken. i just did not find the idletimeout on fso earlier. Aug 11 11:33:11 thanks so much for taking the time to explain this all, it really helps a lot ! Aug 11 11:50:00 is there a separate shr channel? Aug 11 11:53:12 doopa: no Aug 11 11:55:12 heinervdm: Thanks. Aug 11 11:55:43 Was wondering if someone could help me here then. Aug 11 11:55:43 First off - where is the first port of call with regard to up to date information on shr. Aug 11 11:56:04 I made the mistake of upgrading recently and now the gsm functions of the phone are borked. Aug 11 11:56:23 On the mailing list it states that the info not to upgrade is written everywhere. Aug 11 11:56:23 doopa: yes, see channel topic ;) Aug 11 11:56:34 Though I don't find it. Aug 11 12:00:02 Okay - so its on the channel topic in the irc for openmoko. Aug 11 12:00:16 Didn't think to look here before upgrading. Whoops. Aug 11 12:00:27 doopa: do you read SHR ML? Aug 11 12:00:43 nope Aug 11 12:01:05 pf: I'm obviously gonna start Aug 11 12:01:29 doopa: but there was a thread on the OM ML too: http://n2.nabble.com/latest-update-fsousaged-crash%21%21-tp3411842p3411842.html Aug 11 12:02:39 heinervdm: That mail came in around the time I upgraded. It was a day after or so that I saw the mail on the om mailing list. Aug 11 12:03:38 heiner: also I don't regard a mail reporting the fact that the upgrade will break the distro as a warning! Aug 11 12:03:56 doopa: ok, but something like that happens quiet often at SHR-unstable, i had to reflash too :), best point to get information about this will be #openmoko-cdevel Aug 11 12:06:35 Heiner: Is there no alternative to reflashing. I have my phone in a pretty good state now and would hate to reflash. Can I not revert somehow using opkg? Aug 11 12:07:29 doopa: DocScrutinizer just reported this hack: [14:01:56] PaulFertser: of course. copied abyss, fsobasics.so and fsotransport.so from tarball to uSD Aug 11 12:09:09 doopa: this fixed a nonsense I did by "opkg install fso-abyss" Aug 11 12:10:21 doopa: for sure won't help (suffice) to cure a damage done by "opkg upgrade" Aug 11 12:10:50 DocScrutinizer: So - it won't fix the broken fso framework? Aug 11 12:11:44 doopa: not if damage to framework was done by "opkg upgrade" as that is borking more than those 3 files Aug 11 12:11:45 Doc: Shame - cos I've been using shr unstable for a few months without problems. Perhaps I've been blase/lucky. Aug 11 12:12:27 doopa: NAND or uSD? Aug 11 12:12:27 Doc: So basically I would have to reflash with latest image. Aug 11 12:12:56 doc: given that I only want one distro on the phone I usually try to go for NAND. Aug 11 12:13:11 doc: unless I misunderstand something. Aug 11 12:13:33 no, Aug 11 12:14:03 alas for NAND there's actually no easy way other than reflash Aug 11 12:15:06 DocScrutinizer: or boot from SD Aug 11 12:15:14 Doc: So if I had the distro on the card I could have fixed it. Aug 11 12:15:51 doopa: if you have enough knowledge to find what's broken. Aug 11 12:16:01 PaulFertser: that's no valid statement ;-) "for Nand there's no easy way except boot from uSD" Aug 11 12:16:27 doopa: maybe Aug 11 12:17:28 Doc/Paul: Okay. Thanks for the information. Aug 11 12:21:52 doopa: for uSD (well for NAND as well, but it's hard to do there) I'd assume a untaring and copying of /usr/lib/* and /usr/sbin/* to rootfs might fix any damage done by opkg upgrade. Aug 11 12:23:30 doopa: still your opkg database will be messed, so not exactly a clean system that results from this Aug 11 12:28:32 Doc: Thanks - I'll take a look tonight and see how much time I have. But I imagine reflashing will be the easiest. Aug 11 12:28:44 yup Aug 11 13:36:05 hi all, does anyone here know how i can check what class is my kingston c02g card here? is not written on it Aug 11 13:38:42 class is generally irrelevant - if you're using it in FR anyway Aug 11 13:38:47 most cards are faster. Aug 11 14:15:23 SpeedEvil, actually i am using it on a cannon camera.. i just saw openmoko seem to know about this. and #flash is mostly people talking about some closed source graphic system ;-) Aug 11 14:17:42 this calls for http://mjr.iki.fi/humor/cannon.png Aug 11 14:27:03 guysoft42: I'd say simply Aug 11 14:27:15 measure the speed in a fast adaptor Aug 11 14:27:22 for example - a USB2 reader Aug 11 14:52:55 huh, why not "opkg upgrade" for shr now? :) Aug 11 14:55:11 SpeedEvil, isn't there a way to know with the serial number (sorry for the delay) Aug 11 14:57:12 Presumably so if you call kingston and ask. maybe lookup the website Aug 11 15:10:36 So... udhcpc is absolute crap. Is this a known issue? :P Aug 11 15:10:59 In all my time with the FR, I have yet to see it work. Aug 11 15:11:55 And can I get a 'real' (see: working) DHCP client? Aug 11 15:23:21 troubles with kingston? Aug 11 18:29:34 use the one from slackware or slax Aug 11 18:30:01 even better Debian Aug 11 18:41:04 hello. Aug 11 18:41:26 yesterday I installed om2008 and it worked :) Aug 11 18:41:56 * buluca thinks shr is best ;) Aug 11 18:42:20 * buluca anyway didn't ever phone Aug 11 18:42:35 but now I'm using android with koolu auto-installer. Aug 11 18:42:39 It says "Sorry! Application Settings (in process com.android.settings) is not responding. Aug 11 18:43:01 is there a solution for that? Aug 11 18:43:14 buluca, after android I'll try shr ;) Aug 11 18:44:05 oh, and my sim card is not working with android. That's the biggest problem... Aug 11 18:44:07 ;) Aug 11 18:45:32 I will install debian on a µSD card, maybe android, one day Aug 11 18:46:33 according to this, the issue was fixed on beta 4 - http://trac.koolu.org/ticket/25 Aug 11 19:14:03 Hey, I get this when I run mofi in SHR-U: http://pastebin.com/m1820a71c Aug 11 19:14:09 Any ideas? Aug 11 19:14:13 Maybe I'm missing a dep? Aug 11 19:23:34 Darn it, something bricked out in SHR-U again... Aug 11 19:23:50 It forgets it's connected to USB and suspends. Aug 11 19:23:57 Doesn't turn on the power LED either. Aug 11 19:25:01 Digital_Pioneer, mofi very outdated Aug 11 19:25:11 I think its python 2.5 vs 2.6 bug Aug 11 19:25:15 max_posedon: Yeah, but Mokonnect doesn't work worth crap. Aug 11 19:29:03 So Mokonnect doesn't work, Mofi doesn't work... What do I use?? Aug 11 19:29:46 Digital_Pioneer: terminal is your friend Aug 11 19:30:20 zlfita: Not when I don't have a real keyboard, it isn't. :( Aug 11 19:31:16 Digital_Pioneer: point taken, still, I find manually editing a wpa_supplicant.conf and manually running a script most convenient Aug 11 19:31:41 zlfita: I never found editing wpa_supplicant.conf convenient... :\ Aug 11 19:32:36 Digital_Pioneer: have you tried wicd? Aug 11 19:32:50 Never got it to work on FR, but it may be time to try again. Aug 11 19:32:56 Digital_Pioneer: i use it on my laptop but haven't tried on my FR Aug 11 19:33:37 I love it on my laptop and desktop. Aug 11 19:39:45 Great. opkg.org has bad packages for wicd and ethtool. Aug 11 19:46:44 hello all Aug 11 19:47:06 I am trying to edit my .yaml file Aug 11 19:47:32 so that I have some python program display a map as long as the AUX button is pressed Aug 11 19:47:42 but I cant seem to get it yet Aug 11 19:48:00 does anyone have an idea how I can do this? Aug 11 19:49:02 so far I have this, "DISPLAY=:0.0 python interface.py"=org.freesmartphone.Device.Input;org.freesmartphone.oeventsd;/org/freesmartphone/Device/Input;Event;arg[0]=AUX,arg[1]=held Aug 11 20:17:45 openmoko: 03werner * r5418 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (Makefile dump.c file.c file.h fped.c gui.c postscript.c): Aug 11 20:17:45 openmoko: - vector labels are already in a per-frame namespace, so we don't need to add Aug 11 20:17:45 openmoko: the frame name when auto-generating them Aug 11 20:17:45 openmoko: - moved file I/O from gui.c to file.c Aug 11 20:17:45 openmoko: - ps_line used the wrong endpoint coordinate Aug 11 20:17:49 openmoko: - option -k makes fped write KiCad non-interactively Aug 11 20:17:51 openmoko: - option -p makes fped write Postscript non-interactively Aug 11 20:18:40 * Kero growls and edits /etc/issue to reflect release dates... Aug 11 20:52:36 openmoko: 03werner * r5419 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Aug 11 20:52:36 openmoko: Make delete feel "safer". Aug 11 20:52:36 openmoko: - objects are now deleted by selecting them, then clicking on the delete icon Aug 11 20:52:36 openmoko: - removed tool_ops.click, which was only there because of delete Aug 11 21:03:38 of course, when I try to reproduce intermittent resumes when an alarm is active, fail completely :( Aug 11 21:28:20 guess I'll have to try the same thing as yesterday, use Neo as alarm clock and see it work or resume too early... Aug 11 21:54:20 openmoko: 03werner * r5420 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (gui_meas.c gui_tool.c gui_tool.h): Aug 11 21:54:20 openmoko: - measurements entered through the GUI were connected to the active frame, not Aug 11 21:54:20 openmoko: the root frame Aug 11 22:12:11 I'm using XLoadQueryFont to load up the fonts I'm going to use, but I don't know which font to use. I'm trying to get a courier or monotype font. can anyone help? Aug 11 22:24:04 hey all, does someone know if there's a 2.6.31-kernel for the openmoko? Aug 11 22:24:18 or 2.6.30 Aug 11 22:24:19 ? Aug 11 22:24:42 hmm Aug 11 22:25:06 its depend on what you want from this kernel Aug 11 22:25:25 as best the shr.. Aug 11 22:25:27 :) Aug 11 22:25:50 for using kernel with shr, I suggest trust shr kernel and shr maintainers Aug 11 22:26:08 i just think about because i read about problems with patches in 2.6.29 Aug 11 22:27:39 *problems which fix with patches Aug 11 22:28:25 but i think, if it doesn't need patches, it's better.. Aug 11 23:26:41 openmoko: 03werner * r5421 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (9 files): (log message trimmed) Aug 11 23:26:41 openmoko: - added support for string constants to unparse() Aug 11 23:26:41 openmoko: - implemented eval_str Aug 11 23:26:41 openmoko: - expand() now tries to obtain a string Aug 11 23:26:42 openmoko: - added example fbga.fpd to demonstrate use of strings Aug 11 23:26:44 openmoko: - when invoked with an inexisting file, fped now starts with an empty model, Aug 11 23:26:46 openmoko: instead of getting confused Aug 11 23:31:00 openmoko: 03werner * r5422 10/trunk/eda/fped/fbga.fpd: - fbga.fpd: do this nicely and use a variable for the pitch Aug 12 00:49:45 hi, I've got a GTA02, just failed to upgrade to OM2008.12 Aug 12 00:49:59 I'm getting some kind of error about a "magic bitmask" Aug 12 00:54:37 anyone? Aug 12 00:59:42 never seen that error Aug 12 00:59:47 during what part of the process did you see it? Aug 12 01:03:34 ndnihil: during boot after flashing Aug 12 01:04:41 tried reflashing, same thing Aug 12 01:04:55 try resetting the device then reflashing? Aug 12 01:05:04 yes Aug 12 01:05:14 ah there we go, after 10min the errors stop scrolling Aug 12 01:05:18 Kernel panic! Aug 12 01:05:33 that sounds more like a bad image Aug 12 01:05:48 are you flashing the same image over and over, or have you tried something different? Aug 12 01:05:50 "Unable to mount root fs on unknown block (31,6)" Aug 12 01:07:24 ndnihil: which image do you suggest? Aug 12 01:07:51 I've had pretty good luck with shr-unstable 20090703 Aug 12 01:07:58 kernel 119821 Aug 12 01:08:10 ndnihil: the wiki makes it sound like shr is unusable Aug 12 01:08:23 its probably the most usable of all the dists Aug 12 01:08:28 although, would be more usable than my device is now :P Aug 12 01:09:11 erm Aug 12 01:09:16 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ ? Aug 12 01:09:33 I get mine from build.shr-project.org Aug 12 01:09:41 but I think there's one in the topic Aug 12 01:09:48 | Recommended SHR: Aug 12 01:09:49 http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-full-glibc-ipk--20090808-om-gta02.rootfs.* - DO NOT "opkg upgrade"! | Aug 12 01:10:07 Ainulindale set that last night Aug 12 01:13:40 aha! Aug 12 01:13:46 you're gonna call me a noob now. Aug 12 01:13:53 I flashed a .tar.gz as the rootfs. Aug 12 01:14:00 noob Aug 12 01:14:01 ;) Aug 12 01:14:13 I can't believe I did that Aug 12 01:14:23 it's the .jffs2 file I need right? Aug 12 01:14:27 yep Aug 12 01:14:41 assuming you're flashing to nand via dfu Aug 12 01:14:53 neotool.sh Aug 12 01:15:02 but yeah, dfu-util Aug 12 01:15:07 wrapper around dfu-util? Aug 12 01:15:08 yeh Aug 12 01:16:30 sigh, 64mb takes a while on this connection Aug 12 01:16:59 I haven't bricked this have I? Aug 12 01:17:05 nah Aug 12 01:17:11 its nearly impossible to brick Aug 12 01:17:42 cool Aug 12 01:17:50 just bought it Aug 12 01:18:00 seems to have come with an incomplete distro out of the box Aug 12 01:21:59 buy it new? Aug 12 01:22:09 I think they still come with om2007 out of the box Aug 12 01:24:43 yeah new Aug 12 01:25:03 all I know is Settings wouldn't open Aug 12 01:51:15 voltagex: flash to SHR is probably the first thing to do :) Aug 12 01:52:31 I am thinking of switching from SHR to Qtmoko for some reason even after editing the config file call volume is still to low to be usable Aug 12 01:53:05 I am hoping to have better results with qtmoko. has anyone here been using it who might be able to back up that thinking Aug 12 01:54:11 shr is nice Aug 12 01:54:52 Psi: shr stops at the "Select System Menu" screen Aug 12 01:55:02 drascus321: i also have audio is too soft in call mode speaker is wgat i use instead Aug 12 01:56:19 voltagex: hm.. Aug 12 01:57:52 I like SHR a lot. I wish I had better PIM apps and I wish the Call volume was better Aug 12 01:58:08 if I could get that worked out I would be sold. Aug 12 01:58:13 maybe in the next release Aug 12 01:58:30 offtopic slightly, anyone in Australia know where to get a GPS antenna? Aug 12 01:59:30 voltagex: ah there are a few places .. do you really need it Aug 12 01:59:40 -google :) Aug 12 01:59:49 d-b: can't even get a lock outside Aug 12 02:00:03 voltagex: are you serious? Aug 12 02:00:13 im in syd i get locks :) Aug 12 02:00:25 hrm, also, how do I get SHR to connect to wifi? Aug 12 02:00:33 offtopic but Free Software Related if you haven't yet please sign the Defective by Design Petition they are in the final push in the Campaign against Amazon: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/action/open_letter/we_believe_freedom_read Aug 12 02:00:35 d-b: canberra, couldn't get locks Aug 12 02:07:43 wifi on SHR anyone? Aug 12 02:09:12 you can from command line Aug 12 02:09:19 I haven't been able to do it graphically Aug 12 02:10:20 voltagex: i got an antenna from dick smith, $50 Aug 12 02:10:27 ouch Aug 12 02:10:36 voltagex: and i was getting a lock in canberra (using said antenna) Aug 12 02:11:36 hmm ok Aug 12 02:11:46 yet others can get a lock with no external antenna? Aug 12 02:12:27 I maintained the lock with no antenna, but I didn't try acquiring a lock without the antenna, so i cant comment on that bit. Aug 12 02:12:30 *sp Aug 12 02:12:38 well I have no probelm but I am in the USA so totally different from your situation Aug 12 02:14:13 canberra is a hole in a hole. thats the problem there ;) Aug 12 02:20:41 I'm in the US, and get a lock indoors in a house that is made of plaster and wire mesh (think large faraday cage) Aug 12 02:20:56 my garmin handheld wont fix, but the FR does Aug 12 02:21:36 pretty quickly at that Aug 12 02:22:01 same here ndnihil it works really well for me Aug 12 02:22:02 earlier dists I tried weren't that good though, sometimes it wouldnt fix, and if it did, it would take ages Aug 12 02:26:08 ok, how do I make tangoGPS attempt a lock? Aug 12 02:30:04 restarting tango should do it in shr Aug 12 02:32:49 sigh Aug 12 02:32:56 no lock, no wireless Aug 12 02:34:44 which image is it? Aug 12 02:34:51 the one in the topic Aug 12 02:35:55 dont use the latest kernel Aug 12 02:36:23 which kernel? Aug 12 02:36:39 thats a tough one Aug 12 02:36:57 if it's in the topic, I can't see it as irssi is cutting it off. Aug 12 02:37:43 hackable 1? Aug 12 02:37:51 shr Aug 12 02:38:35 i move back to 0721 Aug 12 02:40:09 rootfs or kernel? Aug 12 02:44:51 the ones suggested by the wiki worked fine for me Aug 12 02:46:14 openmoko or shr wiki? Aug 12 02:50:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR_User_Manual Aug 12 02:50:56 the root file system and the Kernel listed here under getting SHR worked fine for me Aug 12 02:51:06 but you might want to go with and older one Aug 12 02:52:22 but now that I check the older ones don't seem available anymore so never mind Aug 12 02:54:45 ok reflashed with latest kernel Aug 12 02:55:11 hey if you figure out how to fix the call volume let me know Aug 12 02:55:27 it's not a const in the source is it? Aug 12 02:55:33 or something simple like that? Aug 12 02:56:08 well there is a conf and I modified it following the wiki's suggestion and it seemed to not help things Aug 12 02:56:19 but your experience may be different Aug 12 02:56:26 yeah I saw that Aug 12 02:57:18 Slaxxer where did you get the files for 0721? Aug 12 02:57:36 I had good luck with that one but i don't see the files available for it anymore Aug 12 02:57:55 /old Aug 12 02:58:01 thanks **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 02:59:57 2009