**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 17 02:59:56 2009 Aug 17 05:51:36 hipitihop: usually it's adviced to remove ~/.e Aug 17 06:05:00 PaulFertser: indeed that got me back, many thanks Aug 17 06:05:59 ooh, let me guess without scrolling back, you had the looping E-crash of death? Aug 17 06:06:35 * hipitihop hands ndnihil a prize Aug 17 06:08:59 2nd solution did not fix WSOD :( Aug 17 06:11:03 kero u have Qi? Aug 17 06:11:56 no, i have gta01 Aug 17 06:12:06 o Aug 17 06:12:42 my 1st solution works, but first estimate on that is that it reduces stand-by considerably. Aug 17 06:12:42 Kero: when i get gta01 i'll install qi there Aug 17 06:12:56 PaulFertser: great! Aug 17 06:13:08 Kero: it already works good, some folks are using it. Aug 17 06:13:32 could that fix his white screen? Aug 17 06:14:07 Slaxxer: i doubt that but who knows... Aug 17 06:23:00 now does anyone know how to configure the three buttons at the bottom of the neo theme ? Aug 17 06:23:50 hipitihop: themes are hand-edited after decompiling with edje_decc Aug 17 06:24:50 Paul I see, I thought I assumed it was preconfigured based on the screenshot on the wiki Aug 17 06:25:27 on another topic. Is anyone else getting this from dmesg when using contacts or messages ? 'Alignment trap: shr-messages (2185) PC=0x400fc104 Instr=0xe7920104 Address=0x00000001 FSR 0x013' Aug 17 06:26:24 * Kero would not expect upgrding from uBoot 131 to 132 to help with WSOD, either. Aug 17 06:27:07 all the WSOD I got were related to the dist I was using at the time Aug 17 06:28:49 so noone else here using shr-u and crashing contacts and messages Aug 17 06:29:24 hipitihop: yes, but that're warnings. And those shr apps are going to be deprecated anyway. Aug 17 06:29:43 hipitihop: contacts and messages might crash because your sim is not ready. Aug 17 07:30:09 I see fsousaged still isn't fixed in shr-unstable, so still no opkg upgrade ? Aug 17 07:32:31 bert_2: i think it's safe now to opkg upgrade Aug 17 07:33:00 PaulFertser, okey, I'll opkg upgrade later today then, thx Aug 17 11:33:58 hi, i would like to know if possible, why now libgsmd is a part of FSO ? is it possible if i want to have only libgsmd ? (if i don't want the part of D-Bus interface, etc.) Aug 17 11:36:52 gabriel: libgsmd is not part of FSO Aug 17 11:37:00 gabriel: FSO is a different attempt Aug 17 11:38:01 but in the SVN of openmoko, the libgsmd is now UNMAINTAINED : "This project is unmaintained now. The successor is ogsmd, which is part of the freesmartphone.org DBus framework. Please see http://www.freesmartphone.org" Aug 17 11:38:22 so i don't understand Aug 17 11:38:59 gabriel: it's not direct successor. It's is supposed to be used in the way similar to libgsmd. Aug 17 11:40:06 so ogsmd is a FSO version of gsmd, but gsmd is not maintained ? (ogsmd yes) Aug 17 11:41:05 in FSO, they call it "gsm daemon v2", so it's a bit confuse for me :) Aug 17 11:42:49 gabriel: consider ogsmd being an integral part of framework written from scratch and having nothing to do with original gsmd. Aug 17 11:43:47 currently, the only version of gsmd with dbus interface is provide by FSO right ? Aug 17 11:45:26 gabriel: there's also pyneo project that also provides dbus interface. Also H:1 guys were working on "fixing" the old gsmd but i don't know the results. Aug 17 11:46:57 ok thanks for information :) Aug 17 13:10:00 Hello, is there a way to disable illume launcher and substitute it with e file manager ? Aug 17 13:10:15 I REALLY googled a lot, I even peeked through the source and I can't figure it out :/ Aug 17 13:10:21 any help is very much appreciated Aug 17 13:14:55 cz_jc: iirc, you want the .Xsession file in root's home dir Aug 17 13:15:15 AntonTakk, why root ? Aug 17 13:17:19 cause the whole thing runs as root, last i played, anyways Aug 17 13:17:30 might be in /etc thou Aug 17 13:17:46 AntonTakk, I run Gentoo and my E runs as my user Aug 17 13:17:52 PaulFertser, i just look at a bit the repository of gsmd2, so if i understand, there is gsmd2 (an API to communicate with GSM via AT commands), libgsmd2 (a library for developper to interact with GSM) and libfreesmartphone (a dbus layer for applications communications), my question is : why not create a repository fso-libgsmd to seperate gsmd/libgsmd and the fso layer ? Aug 17 13:17:58 oh Aug 17 13:18:02 only thing I start in my session is enlightenment_start Aug 17 13:18:08 you aren't using an om distro Aug 17 13:18:13 AntonTakk, nope :) Aug 17 13:18:43 just change e's config to remove the illume module, i believe Aug 17 13:18:43 yeah, I serached /etc and ~/.e and found nothing of interest :/ Aug 17 13:18:58 AntonTakk, yes I tried disabling it but if I do that, I also loose the top bar Aug 17 13:19:27 I just want to rid of the launcher because it doesn't display .desktop files properly and I can't sort them or anything Aug 17 13:19:33 yep, that bar is part of illume :) Aug 17 13:20:02 if I 'just' enable filemanager module, filemanager correctly displays but its above illume launcher.. Aug 17 13:22:00 gabriel: what is gsmd2? Aug 17 13:22:12 cz_jc: you can configure that Aug 17 13:22:25 search maillist for filemanager, it was described Aug 17 13:22:39 dos1, will do, thanks :) Aug 17 13:22:42 dos1, the new version of gsmd maintained by FSO : http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=gsmd2.git;a=summary Aug 17 13:23:07 gabriel: i already saw sources Aug 17 13:23:20 gabriel: but i still don't know what exactly it is Aug 17 13:23:25 how it could be used Aug 17 13:23:27 and why it isn't Aug 17 13:23:52 dos1, it's libgsmd/gsmd rewrite from scratch et maintained :) Aug 17 13:23:59 dos1, is it suppoed to be on OM mailing lists ? Aug 17 13:24:08 cz_jc: om or shr, dunno Aug 17 13:24:11 dos1, its not there :/ Aug 17 13:24:12 ok Aug 17 13:24:55 gabriel: are libgsmd apps from 2007.2 compatible with gsmd2? Aug 17 13:25:04 dos1, yes its indeed in shr-devel list, thank you :) Aug 17 13:25:25 gabriel: and is it supposed to work with ogsmd somehow? Aug 17 13:25:32 any one happen to have tried installing fso/om200x on a rooted g1? Aug 17 13:25:34 dos1, i really don't know, i try to understand the architecture and choice, and i dont use 2007.2 Aug 17 13:25:48 dos1, ogsmd <=> gsmd2 no ? Aug 17 13:25:53 dunno Aug 17 13:25:55 i'm asking :D Aug 17 13:26:05 well, ogsmd != gsmd2 Aug 17 13:26:14 ogsmd is in python and it's in framework.git repository Aug 17 13:26:30 gsmd2 isn't used in FSO images Aug 17 13:26:34 that's why i'm asking Aug 17 13:27:55 i really don't know all the choice of FSO, really hard to understand Aug 17 14:03:01 hi Aug 17 15:20:21 gabriel: FSO doesn't use gsmd2 Aug 17 15:21:35 PaulFertser, look at the repository, in the gsmd2, you have libfreesmartphone Aug 17 15:22:55 gabriel: look at the last commit date... Aug 17 15:23:33 yes but it's maintained no ? Aug 17 15:23:45 gabriel: i don't think it's used anywhere. Aug 17 15:23:50 where can i find a gsmd/libgsmd maintained ? Aug 17 15:24:18 gabriel: from hackable:1 folks. Aug 17 15:24:33 gabriel: but most people switched to FSO Aug 17 15:24:53 yes but FSO use a gsmd/libgsmd no ? Aug 17 15:25:00 gabriel: FSO doesn't Aug 17 15:25:00 FSO is just a dbus interface ? Aug 17 15:25:26 (FSO/gsmd) Aug 17 15:25:50 gabriel: yes, FSO is dbus interface to common "smartphone" functionality. Aug 17 15:26:31 so there is a daemon to AT command, init GSM, communicate with GSM no ? Aug 17 15:27:04 if i don't want the dbus interface and just the lib, where can i find this lib (use by FSO) Aug 17 15:27:47 gabriel: FSO provides everything through dbus interface. Why don't you want to just use the dbus API? Aug 17 15:28:38 because i try to understand :), for example, if i don't want the dbus API and just the lib to communicate with GSM Aug 17 15:28:53 if i want to code my dbus API too Aug 17 15:29:01 (it's just an example ... :)) Aug 17 15:29:16 (i don't really want to do that) Aug 17 15:31:20 gabriel: FSO is currently implemented in python. You can't just "link" with it. Aug 17 15:32:08 but we can't directly communicate with the GSM in Python ? Aug 17 15:32:42 gabriel: dbus is not _that_ indirect Aug 17 15:34:08 dbus provide us a service to allow the communication between application, but we need to have a daemon/lib to initialise/communicate with the GSM, dbus don't know how to do that no ? Aug 17 15:35:13 gabriel: FSO gives you frameworkd -- the daemon that knows how to talk to modem. Aug 17 15:35:15 hello, is there a way to force e17 filemanager to run a shell script? Aug 17 15:35:34 I have a shell script on my desktop and I can't run it neither directly, nor with open with->bash Aug 17 15:36:03 PaulFertser, frameworkd ? ah i don't know, thanks, i go look at about that :) Aug 17 15:36:29 gabriel: just read the API at http://docs.freesmartphone.org Aug 17 15:47:44 figured it out, .desktop file exec= line accepts just about anything, which means per application environment is possible :) Aug 17 16:04:36 what is the reason that computers use 8 bit-- 16bit--32bit--64bit instruction sets would it not be better to use an instruction set that has multiples of 10 ,,or does it just not mater? Aug 17 16:04:51 t Aug 17 16:08:15 Because 10 does not divide nicely in binary Aug 17 16:08:43 a counter to 10 has to - in binary - have 4 values Aug 17 16:08:52 err - 4 digits Aug 17 16:09:00 this means that it can effectively count up to 16 Aug 17 16:11:01 i don't think it actually matters. a "byte" doesn't necessarily have to have eight bits Aug 17 16:11:50 not 8 bits - no. Aug 17 16:12:10 however - there are inefficiencies if the addressing space - not the word length - is not a power of 2 Aug 17 16:13:01 Slaxxer, hehe some PIC microcontrollers have stupid 14bit instruction sets Aug 17 16:13:14 yeah - that's not the addressing space though Aug 17 16:13:21 no, thats even more stupid Aug 17 16:13:24 its banked Aug 17 16:13:33 you wouldn't call one of the 14 bit instruction set PICs a 14 bit micro. Aug 17 16:13:37 It's an 8 bit micro Aug 17 16:13:43 With 14 bit instructions. Aug 17 16:13:48 after BSF STATUS,RP0, I basically switched architectures :) Aug 17 16:13:59 The datapath is entirely 8 bit. Aug 17 16:14:01 SpeedEvil, data are 8 bits wide, thats true Aug 17 16:14:10 As is the ALU, ..... Aug 17 16:14:15 yes Aug 17 16:14:29 and addresss space is banked and also 8 bit Aug 17 16:14:39 yeah Aug 17 16:14:41 they also have just a single 8bit register Aug 17 16:14:50 (that can be used in instructions) Aug 17 16:15:15 AVR on the other hand have 32, with 'only' 16 of them for some load operations Aug 17 16:15:39 ARM have 16 in ARM mode if you don't count different operating modes Aug 17 16:15:59 thumb Aug 17 16:16:10 8051 have also several registers Aug 17 16:16:11 x86 even has some 8 bit instructions. Aug 17 16:16:27 just and only the stupid PICs are widespread and really braindead Aug 17 16:16:34 SpeedEvil: hmm.. what kind of inefficiencies? Aug 17 16:16:56 For example. Aug 17 16:17:18 cz_jc: in ARM mode? Aug 17 16:17:20 You have - say - a 10 bit instruction - with 4 bits of this instruction a destination. Aug 17 16:18:09 It can efficiently address 16 addresses - if you only have 10 - you've wasted part of the bit used to specify. Aug 17 16:18:13 lindi, yes, in ARM mode there are 16 23bit general purpose registers Aug 17 16:18:19 *32bit Aug 17 16:18:27 *accessible Aug 17 16:18:50 cz_jc: but what's ARM mode? you mean user mode? Aug 17 16:19:05 we won't talk about ARM3's 26-bit program counter :) Aug 17 16:19:15 lindi, there are 2 instruction set modes in most arm mcus - arm and thumb Aug 17 16:19:18 Weiss: or as another example - you want to add two 16 bit numbers. If you have a 14 bit datapath - that gets really hard. Aug 17 16:19:23 cz_jc: ah Aug 17 16:19:25 thumb is just mostly 16bit instructions thats translated to arm on the fly Aug 17 16:19:37 cz_jc: my docs say "normal" and "thumb" Aug 17 16:19:45 lindi, ok then lets say normal :D Aug 17 16:19:53 It's not a major issue - past architectures have had 36 bits forex. Aug 17 16:19:56 execution modes is something different - user, abort, system and stuff Aug 17 16:20:19 of course none of those 8bits have those Aug 17 16:20:32 cz_jc: yep Aug 17 16:21:11 btw if anyone wants I wrote a simple C program that boots up on FR and draws image on framebuffer :) Aug 17 16:21:18 for a bare metal application skeleton sake ;) Aug 17 16:22:21 cz_jc: cool, please put it to wiki Aug 17 16:22:33 SpeedEvil: hmm.. but surely you couldn't have just ten addresses in your address space if binary is being used to do the addressing? Aug 17 16:23:16 lindi, some other is already there, I modified that one but that one just blinked LED Aug 17 16:23:28 lindi, sorry that was for lindi- Aug 17 16:24:02 only additional stuff is drawing to framebuffer and converting a .png image to raw and then .o file and embedding into binary Aug 17 16:24:10 * lindi- quits his backup irc client.. Aug 17 16:24:43 lindi-, hey youre finnish? :D Aug 17 16:24:55 Weiss: Sure - it's not very inefficient - but typically you want to optimise it as hard as you can. - the core of the chip. Aug 17 16:24:57 lindi-, thats cool, I use perkele all the time :D my favorite swearword Aug 17 16:26:00 cz_jc: yep, I my internet connection has been very unstable recently since the cellar got flooded Aug 17 16:26:47 lindi-, that sucks.. we have floods here too... Aug 17 16:28:36 r.e. ARM modes and thumb etc: to avoid confusion, talk about ARM or Thumb "state", and user/supervisor/abort/system/interrupt/FIQ "mode". that way you'll stay sane Aug 17 16:29:02 right :D Aug 17 16:29:03 there's also Jazelle state for running Java bytecode in hardware Aug 17 16:29:11 which isn't documented Aug 17 16:29:17 exactly. Aug 17 16:29:29 also thumb2 in newer arms, right ? Aug 17 16:30:24 i'm not sure if that's a separate state, or just more instructions, but yes Aug 17 16:30:47 what more could they fit into the old thumb ;) Aug 17 16:30:49 its crammed :D Aug 17 16:31:05 hehe Aug 17 16:31:25 i used to write ARM assembly language by hand, but Thumb (1) came along long after i did that Aug 17 16:31:30 16 bits is basically avr instruction width Aug 17 16:31:43 .. in a 32bit processor, hehe Aug 17 16:32:30 Weiss, I'm still not comfortable with all those on the fly alu operations on instructions Aug 17 16:32:39 but its like really cool Aug 17 16:34:14 cz_jc: let's see if i can still do this.... ADD r0, r1, r2 LSR #2 ... ? Aug 17 16:34:33 Weiss, yes, LSR is one of them I think Aug 17 16:34:43 there are several shift Aug 17 16:34:49 but I know one direction for one kind is missing Aug 17 16:35:55 cz_jc: this one was just somebody who installed fiber there and did not prepare for the rain Aug 17 16:35:59 LDMIA r13!, {r0-r4, pc}^ (mm.. deprecated...) Aug 17 16:36:14 Weiss: very risc Aug 17 16:36:35 i've thoroughly forgotten all of this, but i think i'm better off now for having done it at one point Aug 17 16:36:39 without ldmia, context switching would suck Aug 17 16:36:49 on an architecture with 16 registers.. Aug 17 16:37:26 avr context switching has heavy overhead with 2 instruction cycles per each push for each of 32 registers Aug 17 16:37:37 thats why freertos on avr sucks :/ Aug 17 16:39:07 ARM has some neat auto bank switching on FIQ and some other modes though :) Aug 17 16:41:42 Andy wrote a post on his blog about using FIQ in Linux code.. it's a little "interesting" Aug 17 16:42:20 Weiss: do you know if andy's "FIQ in C" code is ever going upstream? Aug 17 16:42:37 no idea, i'm afraid Aug 17 16:42:49 i'm only a pretend kernel hacker :) Aug 17 16:43:01 (i think everyone is, really) Aug 17 16:43:16 Weiss, noo I'm not even pretend :D Aug 17 16:43:56 I think all that bank switching is only necessary if you really need to do something really fast on FIQ interrupt Aug 17 16:44:47 what kind of bank switching are we talking about here? Aug 17 16:44:55 on AT91SAM7S and similar you'd use it to store on the fly information when feeding some peripherals and setting up DMA all the time Aug 17 16:45:09 because its clock is very slow Aug 17 16:45:28 Weiss, some registers get automatically bank switched when you switch to FIQ mode Aug 17 16:45:53 Weiss, that means when FIQ occurs, you don't need to do context saving if you don't tamper with those that don't Aug 17 16:46:54 hmm yeah Aug 17 16:49:06 it could be useful on systems with slow memory buses Aug 17 16:49:22 no saving registers = no memory access Aug 17 16:49:48 but on the other hand, you need to load program anyway Aug 17 16:53:30 hi Aug 17 17:17:39 openmoko: 03werner * r5476 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/GETTING-STARTED: - "make dep" makes a lot more sense than "make del", as Nathael pointed out ;-) Aug 17 17:33:29 openmoko: 03werner * r5477 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/GETTING-STARTED: - GETTING-STARTED: added fped build prerequisites Aug 17 18:04:20 hej, is Golden Delicious a serious distributor? Aug 17 19:20:33 How would I find out which hardware version of the FreeRunner I got delivered. The backside says GTA02. Aug 17 19:22:27 look inside for model name; cat /proc/cpuinfo; probably other ways, too. Aug 17 19:39:42 6 or 7 Aug 17 20:00:43 has the sms-sentry application added the feature that if it detects a different SIM it will send its new gps position? Aug 17 20:36:33 has the sms-sentry application added the feature that if it detects a different SIM it will send its new gps position? Aug 17 20:42:56 openmoko: 03werner * r5478 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (18 files): (log message trimmed) Aug 17 20:42:56 openmoko: We can now generate part families. Aug 17 20:42:56 openmoko: - README: added build prerequisites Aug 17 20:42:56 openmoko: - "part name" is now more correctly called "package name" Aug 17 20:42:56 openmoko: - changed keyword "part" to "package" Aug 17 20:42:57 openmoko: - removed inst_debug and struct inst_ops.debug functions - never really used Aug 17 20:43:01 openmoko: them anyway Aug 17 20:45:45 BillK_: hey, ayt? Aug 17 21:00:11 openmoko: 03werner * r5479 10/trunk/gta02-core/modules/ (INFO mkloe stdpass.fpd): Aug 17 21:00:11 openmoko: - made stdpass.fpd generate all its footprints (upgrade fped !) Aug 17 21:00:11 openmoko: - stdpass.fpd now has a slightly more sensible outline Aug 17 21:00:11 openmoko: - added stdpass to mkloe, so that it gets exercised Aug 17 21:08:18 Slaxxer: should be 7 Aug 17 21:21:51 so i take it there would be no advantage to use a 10bit multiples Aug 17 21:22:36 no simplification Aug 17 21:26:12 Slaxxer: hmm? Aug 17 21:29:32 Anyone upgraded SHR lately. The PIN dialog won't show for me. Aug 17 21:30:16 lysgaard: are you using gsm0710muxd or fso-abyss? Aug 17 21:30:48 PaulFertser: how do i check? Aug 17 21:31:32 lysgaard: /etc/frameworkd.conf Aug 17 21:33:45 PaulFertser: I'm aperently using fso-abyss Aug 17 21:34:31 lysgaard: check that you indeed don't have gsm0710muxd installed, opkg remove it just in case. Aug 17 21:37:45 PaulFertser: Hmm. task-fso-compliance and mickeyterm depends on it. force? Aug 17 21:37:52 lysgaard: yes Aug 17 21:38:35 PaulFertser: Reboot, se if it's ok? Aug 17 21:39:02 lysgaard: well, at least restart frameworkd and then ophonekitd Aug 17 21:40:21 PaulFertser: How do i start ophonokitd? Aug 17 21:40:35 lysgaard: well, you're shr user, not me Aug 17 21:40:45 lysgaard: (means sorry i don't know ask shr guys) Aug 17 21:40:56 PaulFertser: Got it Aug 17 21:42:50 I gotta say. Boot speed is getting better and better Aug 17 21:43:24 has the sms-sentry application added the feature that if it detects a different SIM it will send its new gps position? Aug 17 21:46:06 PaulFertser: Didn't do muck, but thanks anyway. Aug 17 21:53:34 do You know, that should I correct in configuration to have suspending back after SHR upgrade? Aug 17 22:13:45 CVirus, how's it going? Aug 17 22:14:23 dcordes: not bad Aug 17 22:28:08 Did they ever tell us what Project B was? Aug 17 22:28:21 Sargun: no Aug 17 22:28:50 ah Aug 17 22:28:52 :-( Aug 17 22:28:53 Sargun: it's known that it has nothing to do with telecommunications and that it doesn't run GNU/Linux. Aug 17 22:29:09 does it run Windows CE? Aug 17 22:29:37 Sargun: of course not, it's just a device simple enough to not need a full-featured OS. Aug 17 22:34:24 I heard it runs plan9 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 18 02:59:56 2009