**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 26 02:59:58 2009 Aug 26 04:39:29 that easytouch keyboard would be nice if it had bigger fonts to go with those big buttons Aug 26 04:42:59 i dun like it Aug 26 04:43:08 buttons at the edge are hard to hit Aug 26 04:58:56 as bad as the terminal one? Aug 26 04:59:50 installing hackable 1 todays image Aug 26 05:05:27 a tad better than that one...maybe Aug 26 05:40:15 Undrwater: Either before or after, it doesn't matter. The idea is that after unbinding (and that what frameworkd does after fsoraw releases the WiFi resource) sometimes eth0 is left errorneously but the device is not there anymore. rmmoding does the job of cleaning up. Aug 26 05:40:55 BTW, guys, for many puproses at home BT networking would be "ok" too, why apparently nobody does that? Aug 26 05:47:07 PaulFertser: because bluez4 broken my scripts and i'm too busy to rewrite them Aug 26 05:48:37 lindi-: have you seen the bluez4-specific instructions already? They're quite easy to follow, i hope. Aug 26 05:48:54 PaulFertser: your instructions or somebody else's? Aug 26 05:49:00 lindi-: my Aug 26 05:49:31 PaulFertser: do they involve fso? Aug 26 05:49:54 lindi-: no, not at all. Aug 26 05:50:13 lindi-: in fact BT networking is easier with bluez4 comparing to bluez3 Aug 26 05:50:56 PaulFertser: that's a subjective opinion :) Aug 26 05:51:25 lindi-: how is that? Can you please elaborate? Aug 26 05:52:06 lindi-: i mean i know that any opinion is subjective by definition :D But can you hilight some differences that make bluez3 easier? Aug 26 05:52:13 PaulFertser: well having to use git to get some "simple-agent" from source code tree is not what normal people expect Aug 26 05:52:43 lindi-: i provided a direct http link, wget is capable of using that Aug 26 05:53:07 PaulFertser: you did yes but i'm speaking generally about bluez4 Aug 26 05:53:51 lindi-: also bluez4 has plenty of other agents, simple-agent is for those who needs command line interface, i see no problem with downloading it from the repository. Also it's about packaging, i can't see a reason why e.g. Debian packagers do not include it. Aug 26 05:54:55 PaulFertser: also there's this panu.py -- is it only in wiki? Aug 26 05:55:53 lindi-: yep, i had to write it myself... Basically, not releasing the bus is the only thing i miss in "bash dbus bindings" (read dbus-send). I'm not sure it's bluez4 fault, looks more like dbus folks didn't care to provide a tool. Aug 26 05:56:37 PaulFertser: i'm not blaming anybody, i'm just saying that current state of bluez4 is that you can't tell somebody who to set it up without having connection to internet Aug 26 05:56:42 lindi-: i think somebody can make a patch to dbus-send to support a command line switch to stay on bus until killed, so that'd solve the problem altogether. Aug 26 05:56:44 s/who/how/ Aug 26 05:56:45 lindi- meant: PaulFertser: i'm not blaming anybody, i'm just saying that current state of bluez4 is that you can't tell somebody how to set it up without having connection to internet Aug 26 05:57:28 lindi-: documentation sucks, i agree. But strictly speaking additional scripts are not necessary. Aug 26 05:57:32 PaulFertser: with bluez3 i did, iki.fi/lindi/bluetooth.txt and I am actually able to memorize that. I don't memorize the dbus stuff Aug 26 05:58:01 the command lines are so long that they don't even fit to screen, not something a user should be typing Aug 26 05:58:19 lindi-: there's introspection for a reason. With that in mind i can reproduce the instructions any time without looking at the wikipage. Aug 26 05:58:44 PaulFertser: I can't remember that by heart either :) Aug 26 05:58:45 lindi-: you type it once and save whereever you like, not much of a problem in my experience. Aug 26 05:59:15 lindi-: org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect , come on, it's obvious ;) Aug 26 05:59:17 PaulFertser: well i was abroad and wanted to setup bluetooth network between my laptop and a laptop of a friend Aug 26 05:59:25 PaulFertser: we had no internet access but only debian archive Aug 26 05:59:42 and we could not do it even after spending two hours Aug 26 06:00:09 PaulFertser: very few admins know that and almost no user knows it Aug 26 06:00:24 users are used to 'man foo' to get help Aug 26 06:00:30 (speaking of experienced users here) Aug 26 06:02:34 PaulFertser: basically all these dbus interfaces are nice but a user-interface is needed Aug 26 06:04:00 openmoko: 03werner * r5539 10/developers/werner/gta02-core/ge864/ (10 files): GE864 evaluation board. (In progress) Aug 26 06:05:07 PaulFertser: maybe bluez4 folks could include your panu.py and simple-agent in the list of installed binaries? Aug 26 06:05:32 PaulFertser: and if those would have manual pages this would be great Aug 26 06:05:47 lindi-: yes, i confirm, it took me many hours to setup networking with bluez4 and i did that only after receiving a hint from bluez developer ;) Aug 26 06:06:21 PaulFertser: bluez4 developers are hard to find without internet connection :) Aug 26 06:06:42 lindi-: yes, full ack. I mean once you know how to use bluez4 networking, you can get it going. Aug 26 06:07:06 lindi-: btw, don't debian archives include "blueman" GUI configuration utility? Aug 26 06:08:29 PaulFertser: did I mention that my friend had great disrespect running X apps? :-) Aug 26 06:08:34 +to Aug 26 06:09:48 but yes, i don't think we knew about blueman Aug 26 06:09:55 lindi-: well, you had bluez sources after all ;) but i confirm i didn't manage to understand that the connection drops once the client calling Connect() disappears from the bus. BTW, i've sent a patch to alter documentation, it's in the repo already. Aug 26 06:10:09 PaulFertser: thanks Aug 26 06:10:29 PaulFertser: now just write simple command line tools to do what you describe in wiki and write man pages :P Aug 26 06:11:36 lindi-: i guess it'd be nice to have some (probably even python) toolset for basic bluetooth activities. Unfortunately, bluez developers are busy with other stuff and i'm not interested enough anyway since for me using dbus-send is ok. Aug 26 06:12:24 PaulFertser: ok, i'll put this to my endless todo list (very low probability that i'll do anything about it...) Aug 26 06:13:57 lindi-: but are you sure that's needed? Using bluetooth from command line is more and more rare nowadays and for those rare occasions one can use dbus-send mostly. And if you're "really embedded" and lack python and need some agent you can easily write it yourself in C... Aug 26 06:20:16 PaulFertser: i need my manual pages :) Aug 26 06:20:40 PaulFertser: I want to configure networking without X Aug 26 06:20:43 lindi-: doesn't Debian ship doc/*api* from the sources? Aug 26 06:20:52 PaulFertser: that's not user documentation :) Aug 26 06:20:57 it's api documentation for developers Aug 26 06:21:06 think linux netlink socket API docs vs. "man ifconfig" Aug 26 06:21:28 they are both docs but the audience is different Aug 26 06:21:29 lindi-: i tested it myself, it's in fact user documentation, user-accessible with standard dbus-send utility. Aug 26 06:22:13 lindi-: those users who can't use dbus send should stick to blueman or other gui tools. Aug 26 06:23:20 PaulFertser: do those gui tools have manual pages? Aug 26 06:23:21 lindi-: in fact bluez4 API is _very_ high level. Really. It corresponds almost one-to-one to gui checkboxes etc. Aug 26 06:23:59 lindi-: no idea, i don't need blueman myself. I guess it has some rudimentary man page and other stuff is self-describing and obvious as GUI writers like to pretend. Aug 26 06:25:15 PaulFertser: yes the API can be perfect. I'm just arguing that just like there is a GUI for using it there should be a non-graphical UI for it Aug 26 06:25:40 PaulFertser: and the non-graphical UI should not be more complex to use just because it uses no graphics Aug 26 06:25:53 lindi-: and there's dbus-send, it's simple to use, no? Aug 26 06:26:27 PaulFertser: it's like a general purpose tool for making ioctl's, it can be used for anything :) Aug 26 06:27:02 lindi-: to me it seems it's ok if the API is high-level enough. I can't see why a dedicated tool should be used. Aug 26 06:27:10 PaulFertser: why use blueman when you can use d-feet? ;) Aug 26 06:27:53 PaulFertser: i'm not talking about changing the API, just providing a UI (a binary with manual page) for calling that API Aug 26 06:28:11 API is for progammers, UI is for users :) Aug 26 06:30:10 lindi-: you know some people claim that wodim's command line interface is for developers and that "users" needs front-ends for that. Aug 26 06:32:19 PaulFertser: well user/developer boundary is not strict Aug 26 06:33:00 lindi-: you got the hint ;) Aug 26 06:34:07 but now off to parse some XML... Aug 26 06:39:38 anyone have any idea how to clean root filesystem? I'm running out of space, and uninstalling unused stuff didn't free lots of it :/ Aug 26 06:53:59 tomcatek: did you also uninstall unused dependencies (for the apps you uninstalled)? Aug 26 06:56:28 quatrox: -autoremove Aug 26 06:56:57 quatrox: done that :/ Aug 26 07:00:34 tomcatek: the only thing I can think of is if your log files are permanent (not in RAM) Aug 26 07:01:52 quatrox: good idea. let me check Aug 26 07:02:40 quatrox: /var/log is using only 76K Aug 26 07:05:31 tomcatek: hmmm... maybe you still got packages installed that could be removed ( opkg list_installed|less ) Aug 26 07:05:51 quatrox: I'm doing that right now Aug 26 07:15:56 tomcatek: also you can try to do "du -s * | sort -rn | less" to see where the space goes. Aug 26 07:24:54 Does anyone know how useable Navit is? Is it compareable with tomtom or some other commercial shit already? Aug 26 07:25:13 not even close Aug 26 07:25:28 I got the gf a tomtom last christmas Aug 26 07:25:47 and navit it not even close Aug 26 07:25:57 the routing engine is effectively useless Aug 26 07:26:13 PaulFertser: it is very usable. but it still depends on maps You are going to use. OpenStreetMaps have some issues, but I'm using it with very goot efect Aug 26 07:26:19 ndnihil: are you sure you tried the latest version of navit? Aug 26 07:26:21 ndnihil: is that the quality of the data, or the routing engine? Aug 26 07:26:34 latest svn as far as I know Aug 26 07:27:07 pabs: I never got to check the quality of the data because simply trying to enter an address to route to is broken Aug 26 07:27:17 tomcatek: does some speach reporting work? If e.g. i put my FR in my backpack and cycle somewhere will i get decent hints on where and when to turn? Also is it fast enough if i use it in a car? Aug 26 07:27:46 I can route to a town/city Aug 26 07:27:47 ndnihil: is it genarally broken or only for non-latin names? Aug 26 07:27:54 but it doesnt take specific addresses Aug 26 07:28:05 seems generally broken for me Aug 26 07:28:32 PaulFertser: speech works OK. I used it in a car, and it wos good enough for me. Aug 26 07:28:35 it will ask the country, then the town, then doesnt want to accept any input Aug 26 07:29:00 ndnihil: try using "internal" interface. it's much more comfortable Aug 26 07:29:09 I think I am Aug 26 07:29:15 let me double check Aug 26 07:29:42 ndnihil: in "internal" you don't have to input country Aug 26 07:29:52 tomcatek: any idea if non-latin street names work? Aug 26 07:29:55 Aug 26 07:30:54 PaulFertser: I'm using espeak for a voice. You can try what can it say Aug 26 07:31:16 you have to disable speech-dispatcher for espeak to work Aug 26 07:31:34 tomcatek: i mean can you successfully enter non-latin street names as a route destination? Aug 26 07:32:05 speech-dispatcher is deprecated. it tries to use OSS, so it have no effect (at least for me) Aug 26 07:33:36 PaulFertser: if You mean "language specific letters" (at least for polish ones) navit takes the closest one, eg for "e+ogonek" it takes "e" Aug 26 07:34:16 tomcatek: i think i'll be forced to use cyrillic, unfortunately all streets here are named only that way. Aug 26 07:35:47 ~botsnack Aug 26 07:35:48 :), DocScrutinizer Aug 26 07:35:57 apt: good bot Aug 26 07:35:57 :), DocScrutinizer Aug 26 07:36:06 PaulFertser: install navit and see how is it done. navit is translated into lots of languages, so it may have Your also supported Aug 26 07:36:28 ~seen bzzbot Aug 26 07:36:30 bzzbot was last seen on IRC in channel #nslu2-linux, 37d 4h 42m 41s ago, saying: 'eno meant: &d sounds like a good package to be included in optware'. Aug 26 07:36:55 tomcatek: i don't care about translation obviously, but thanks for the hint and for sharing your experience... Aug 26 07:37:50 PaulFertser: if You will have any problems, I can share my config file also :) Aug 26 07:37:56 Hi, I want to show pictures on my OM2009. But the packages neon and omview could not been found as described in the wiki. The opkg list gives me Exhibit, but it crash if I try to open an jpeg. Aug 26 07:38:31 CosmicDuck: you can try to install the one from SHR repos. Or just use SHR... Aug 26 07:40:35 Is shr more stable than om2009? Aug 26 07:42:54 CosmicDuck: i use neo + SHR as a daily phone Aug 26 07:43:00 CosmicDuck: and it works well Aug 26 07:47:00 CosmicDuck: even as SHR is short on manpower for maintenance & development, I think it's yet much better supported than OM2009 Aug 26 07:49:01 Ok, whats with the wifi, gprs, bt and gps support on shr? Is it working? At the moment I use my neo mainly for gps tracking with online internet connection. Aug 26 07:50:20 gps works fine as long as FSO/dbus stuff is working Aug 26 07:51:02 gprs works like a charm (well mostly) Aug 26 07:51:15 bt you best ask PaulFertser Aug 26 07:51:24 wifi same Aug 26 07:51:42 CosmicDuck: there's no difference wrt bt, wifi and gps between SHR and OM2009. Aug 26 07:52:49 I will check it by installing on my sim, later. Aug 26 07:53:20 Any idea why jpgs could not been viewed on om2009? Looks like midori has the same problem. Aug 26 07:55:01 anybody knows in which ipk ld is found` Aug 26 08:00:08 you'll do a real amazing job if you manage to install it to your sim Aug 26 08:01:07 hehe Aug 26 08:01:51 Hi everybody. I hope someone can help me. I have om2009 testing 5 and installed the 16 August unstable kernel. This was to fix an issue that my Windows (at work) computer wouldn't recognize it. Now my Windows doesn't even recognize it as an rndis device, and I have no sound on my phone. I am lost, and my GF is dissing my phone, and my IPhone wielding coworkers is smirking :D Please advice. Aug 26 08:02:34 Hmmm... I have a second neo which I can test it, but it is not really ok (my horse has to wants the neo as a boot for her hoof ;-( Aug 26 08:04:02 It is not destroyed, but sometimes the graphics hangs up witch scratched images on the screen. Aug 26 08:04:37 Daramarak: tell them to fuck off? Aug 26 08:05:14 Daramarak: in fact your problem most probably is because you haven't untarred the corresponding kernel modules. Aug 26 08:05:41 CosmicDuck: heh, that's a really interesting story Aug 26 08:06:16 PaulFertser: I was hoping you were on. Aug 26 08:06:35 Daramarak: use SHR! Aug 26 08:06:51 CosmicDuck: install on uSD then? Aug 26 08:06:55 PaulFertser: Give me a SHR image with paroli on, and I am in :) Aug 26 08:07:25 On my old neo? No. Will install at directly to the phone (nand?) Aug 26 08:07:46 Daramarak: hm, i think recent paroli were put back in the feeds several days before. Not sure if anyone tried running that. Aug 26 08:07:59 Daramarak: anyway to solve your problems you need only kernel modules. Aug 26 08:08:00 CosmicDuck: on the new one Aug 26 08:08:04 If it is working well with the fesatures I have on OM2009 than will do this on my new one too. Aug 26 08:08:33 If it is too hard to install it in my µSD Aug 26 08:08:52 but not today. Aug 26 08:09:06 * DocScrutinizer considering to actually test a "opkg install paroli" on his SHR Aug 26 08:09:10 PaulFertser: I am sorry, but although I know how to untar, I wouldn't know what to do with the untarred results :) Aug 26 08:09:23 ok Aug 26 08:10:03 PaulFertser: Would I have to download these modules from the SHR download site, or are they already somewhere and only need untarring? Aug 26 08:10:20 CosmicDuck: actually setting up a uSD is muuuch more easy than it sounds on wiki Aug 26 08:10:34 2. try? In which package I could find ld for checking installed libraries? I think there is missing one on my phone to show jpg images. Aug 26 08:10:46 Daramarak: where did you get the kernel from? Aug 26 08:10:49 aeh used, not installed ;-) Aug 26 08:11:04 Daramarak: there should be a modules archive just in the same directory. Wget it to / and untar from there. Aug 26 08:11:15 DocScrutinizer: I would be very interested to hear if that is working. Although an image with paroli as main phone application would be the only thing that would let me drop om2009 without looking back. Aug 26 08:11:41 CosmicDuck: bin-utils? core-utils? sth like that Aug 26 08:11:54 PaulFertser: Yes there was modules files there too. Aug 26 08:11:56 Thanks, will check it. Aug 26 08:12:17 CosmicDuck: opkg list | grep ld Aug 26 08:12:42 openmoko: 03werner * r5540 10/developers/werner/gta02-core/ge864/ (NOTES ge864.brd ge864.cmp ge864.fpd ge864.pro pin.mod): Continuing on GE864 EVB. Flipped the module for through-hole BGA mounting. Aug 26 08:12:53 this was to easy ;-) Aug 26 08:13:06 opkg install ldd Aug 26 08:13:31 Daramarak: so, are you on it? Aug 26 08:14:03 wtf is through-hole BGA??? o.O Aug 26 08:15:09 PaulFertser: Yes, I will do as soon as I can get my FR online or equivalent. Thanks Paul, for all the help you have given me on this problem. I am not familiar with most of the inner workings of linux so you help has been very helpful. Aug 26 08:15:56 PaulFertser: Your help was helpful. Wow, what a wonderful sentence. I just wanted to say that I am grateful. Aug 26 08:16:04 :D Aug 26 08:16:16 Daramarak: :D Aug 26 08:38:57 Argh....sh***t busybox. I cannot install findutils because xargs and file are binaries instead of links.. Aug 26 08:42:15 Ok after manual installing of jpeg libraries now I can open jpegs with exhibit...but rotate of image will now crash again...:-( Aug 26 09:22:09 openmoko: 03werner * r5541 10/developers/werner/gta02-core/ge864/ (ge864.brd ge864.cmp ge864.pro ge864.sch sot353.mod): Added dual transistor. More changes. Aug 26 09:24:26 CosmicDuck: see people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/opkg-u Aug 26 09:25:56 Daramarak: opkg list doesn't provide any paroli :-/ Aug 26 09:26:07 (yet???) Aug 26 09:29:57 DocScrutinizer: have you opkg updated alread? Aug 26 09:30:27 hehe, you cheated by reading #-cdevel, no? Aug 26 09:30:42 No :) Aug 26 09:30:47 update still in progress Aug 26 09:31:24 finished Aug 26 09:31:42 /parol Aug 26 09:31:58 yooooh Aug 26 09:32:38 would I want to "opkg install paroli-autostart" as well?? Aug 26 09:33:05 Daramarak: seems paroli hit shr-feed yesterday Aug 26 09:36:07 DocScrutinizer: autostart? Sounds scary ;) Aug 26 09:36:17 yeah Aug 26 09:43:59 DocScrutinizer: but does it work? Is bind-home in effect at SHR? Aug 26 09:45:03 Daramarak: bind-home? why do you think this is a prerequisite for paroli? Aug 26 09:45:21 Daramarak: You can manually mount /home/root to uSD Aug 26 09:45:57 Daramarak: it's just a matter of editing /etc/fstab Aug 26 09:48:12 and I don't see why I should need that mandatory for paroli Aug 26 09:48:47 my /home *is* on uSD right now, even without bind-home ;-P Aug 26 09:49:31 but it's no difference paroli was able to detect even, no? Aug 26 09:50:13 sorry I don't see how to start paroli now that it's installed :-/ Aug 26 09:54:19 aaah, opkg actually obeyed to --noaction :-P Aug 26 09:54:50 DocScrutinizer: lol Aug 26 09:55:00 DocScrutinizer: you didn't expect it to, did you? ;) Aug 26 09:55:09 exactly Aug 26 09:56:11 opkg has a printf() for every shit, but not for --noaction Aug 26 09:57:13 plus opkg happily ignores faulty options like -no-action Aug 26 09:58:23 DocScrutinizer: and opkg --help does not work as non-root Aug 26 09:58:33 muhahaha Aug 26 09:59:14 opkg is a *really* sophisticated tool. mature and userfriendly Aug 26 09:59:39 Aug 26 10:06:16 DocScrutinizer: just wanted to ask if you were joking... Aug 26 10:09:29 wooot, even an icon :-D Aug 26 10:10:57 yo, after 2min of loading... :) Aug 26 10:13:33 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rab41e069ee96 10/libfsobasics/ (3 files in 2 dirs): libfsobasics: add StringHandling.enumToString courtesy Playya. Aug 26 10:13:50 DocScrutinizer: Is it usable? Aug 26 10:14:00 kinda Aug 26 10:14:25 don't see any advantage over shr native yet, though Aug 26 10:15:27 Daramarak: why can't you take off your uSD, copy modules archive there, then plug in your FR and untar? Aug 26 10:15:41 s/take off/pull out/ Aug 26 10:15:42 PaulFertser meant: Daramarak: why can't you pull out your uSD, copy modules archive there, then plug in your FR and untar? Aug 26 10:19:12 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r49005aa95703 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala: fsousaged: controller: show resume reason as string Aug 26 10:19:58 eeeeek, accidentally loaded illume native theme :-S Aug 26 10:31:49 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rbdae69937c29 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (docs/TODO pimd_generic.py): Aug 26 10:31:49 freesmartphone.org: opimd: add experimental support of "greater than" and "lesser than" queries Aug 26 10:31:49 freesmartphone.org: Field names to use when quering: Aug 26 10:31:49 freesmartphone.org: _lt_Field, _float_lt_Field, _gt_Field, _float_gt_Field - compare after casting to float Aug 26 10:31:52 freesmartphone.org: _int_lt_Field, _int_gt_Field - compare after casting to int Aug 26 10:31:54 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r9ac762f4799a 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/backend_manager.py: opimd: backend manager: send dbus signal after initializing all backends on startup Aug 26 10:31:57 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r99e07ef2f0ee 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): opimd: remove entries from cache when disabling backend Aug 26 10:32:00 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r5b7244665aea 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (pimd_calls.py pimd_notes.py): opimd: Calls, Notes: check entry id when deleting to prevent tracebacks Aug 26 10:32:03 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rfdad05603d63 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (docs/TODO pimd_generic.py): Aug 26 10:32:06 freesmartphone.org: opimd: add new mode in quering: at least one Aug 26 10:32:24 freesmartphone.org: To use it, set _at_least_one field to non-false value. Aug 26 10:32:24 freesmartphone.org: In this mode returned entries match to at least one field in query. Aug 26 10:32:38 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r0aa6549711c6 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'dos/opimd-tracking' Aug 26 10:45:53 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r16bc121c3566 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala: Aug 26 10:45:53 freesmartphone.org: fsousaged: controller: fix crash when a resource implementor quits the bus Aug 26 10:45:53 freesmartphone.org: (Note to self: do not modify an interable while iterating over it...) Aug 26 10:45:53 freesmartphone.org: Thanks ptitjes and juergbi. Aug 26 11:20:18 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r7e1c1a3e2eeb 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/kernel_idle/plugin.vala: Aug 26 11:20:18 freesmartphone.org: fsodeviced: kernel_idle: add new configuration option to Display resource specifying whether Aug 26 11:20:18 freesmartphone.org: the holding the display resource will allow for dimming the display after a while. Aug 26 11:20:18 freesmartphone.org: Set "display_resource_allows_dim = 1" in [fsodevice.kernel_idle] to allow dimming. Aug 26 11:20:21 freesmartphone.org: Default behaviour (display always on full brightness when resource is held) remains unchanged. Aug 26 11:20:24 freesmartphone.org: Fixes FSO #370 Aug 26 11:41:41 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r84899d83f8de 10/vapi/elm.vapi: elm.vapi: bind additional toolbar (item) API as of upstream svn rev 42008 Aug 26 11:44:46 Daramarak: paroli install works on shr. it doesn't segfault on first invocation... ;-P No further tests done, as I'm not interested in it. Nevertheless it seems there's no more excuse to switch to SHR ;-D Aug 26 11:57:44 Does anybody want to test my wifi patch? Please! Aug 26 12:03:13 PaulFertser: sorry, have to run. Ping you later Aug 26 12:52:23 i am missing libstdc++.so.6, in which packages is it? Aug 26 12:53:09 naeg: in which distribution ? Aug 26 12:53:21 neomilium: SHR Aug 26 12:53:27 (sry for forgetting this) Aug 26 12:59:31 naeg: i don't know but SHR is based on OpenEmbedded, you could look this way Aug 26 13:05:23 naeg: libstdc++ probably? Aug 26 13:05:31 naeg: ever tried "opkg search c++"? Aug 26 13:07:26 not yet, currently making a icon for linball, but i am really not good with gimp Aug 26 13:10:05 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r8b6a519a4964 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (pimd_generic.py query_manager.py): Aug 26 13:10:05 freesmartphone.org: opimd: implement sorting Aug 26 13:10:05 freesmartphone.org: _sortby field in query specifies field name to use when sorting. Aug 26 13:10:05 freesmartphone.org: To reverse results, use non-false value of _sortdesc Aug 26 13:17:21 LaF0rge: greetings :D Aug 26 13:22:21 paul: thanks. Aug 26 13:22:24 LaF0rge: i just realised that your reply intended for the kernel ML never made it, because our stupid lists still subscribe-only and your gnumonks address is probably not subscribed. Hence no followup. But taking an opportunity right now i can say only "Great thanks! And good luck to you hacking on something interesting in that mysterious Korea :)" Aug 26 13:22:28 was looking for raster but he's not online right now Aug 26 13:22:52 paul: you will soon see news on linux-arm-kernel Aug 26 13:23:18 paul: combine that with what is public about my last trip to korea... Aug 26 13:23:53 LaF0rge: waiting eagerly :) Aug 26 13:24:10 paul: well, will probably take another week or so Aug 26 13:25:05 Since OM-the-comany went in a shadow OM community doesn't hurry anywhere anymore. Aug 26 13:31:34 yiha, i can play pokemon on my neo :D Aug 26 13:34:03 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r6ae1f6140711 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/query_manager.py: opimd: place entries without field which is used for sorting always on end Aug 26 13:35:06 naeg: is it open source? :> Aug 26 13:38:10 dos1: pokemon? Aug 26 13:39:10 naeg: hmm any link for that app ?:> Aug 26 13:39:21 visualboyadvance i suppose Aug 26 13:40:26 soltys: http://www.opkg.org/package_262.html Aug 26 13:40:27 yeah Aug 26 13:40:49 runs great Aug 26 13:41:00 may someone should try to port snes9x Aug 26 13:41:05 LaF0rge: hey!! :-)) long time no see Aug 26 13:41:08 i'd like to play super mario brothers Aug 26 13:41:19 doc: hi, yes. as indicated, I was mainly looking for raster. Aug 26 13:41:23 naeg: i'll try to build it, it's already in shr/import (snes9x) Aug 26 13:41:56 dos1: great, so i don't have to try it out :) but this needs more performance Aug 26 13:43:13 LaF0rge: how's FOSS business? Aug 26 13:43:22 good. Aug 26 13:43:37 LaF0rge: good to hear that Aug 26 13:43:42 i'm just sad that I now have a new motorbike in berlin (and an old one in taipei) but have to spend a lot of time in korea Aug 26 13:43:56 hehe Aug 26 13:44:27 LaF0rge: you either need a smaller motorbike, or a bigger private jet Aug 26 13:44:51 heh. no. i need remote drones that i can send to korea ;) Aug 26 13:44:59 LaF0rge: (OT) are you wearing _full_ protection usually? Aug 26 13:45:11 LaF0rge: btw fsckng Korea. They have "paparazzi" there :-/ Aug 26 13:45:21 paul: in germany yes, in taiwan no Aug 26 13:45:33 doc: ? Aug 26 13:46:27 blockwarte, oder sowas. Lassen sich ne plastiktuete fuer umsonst geben im laden und kassieren dann die kopfpraemie fuer die anzeige Aug 26 13:46:46 sounds like third reich Aug 26 13:47:23 doc: oh well, nothing to seriously worry about. I'm also not planning to live here ;) Aug 26 13:47:29 LaF0rge: don't spit on the street! ;-) Aug 26 13:48:45 LaF0rge: had a look at N900/RX-51 yet? Aug 26 13:48:57 doc: i never do that Aug 26 13:49:05 lol - why? Aug 26 13:49:08 n900: well, only online obviously Aug 26 13:49:14 neve do that (spitting) Aug 26 13:49:17 aaah Aug 26 13:49:33 yep, only online :-S Aug 26 13:49:52 but yes, n900 seems interesting. the keyboard looks pretty unusable, I am afraid Aug 26 13:50:04 still looks so fsckng promising I simply can't wait to get hold on one Aug 26 13:50:15 in any case, there will also be LiMo based mobile phones later this year... some with Samsung SoC :) Aug 26 13:50:27 I know Aug 26 13:50:54 for some strange reason I seem to remeber I seriously dislike LiMo Aug 26 13:51:30 any idea why? Aug 26 13:52:54 LaF0rge: (kbd) can't be worse than M800 Aug 26 13:53:18 doc: i thought the m900 kbd had even less keys? but yes, the 800 is already bad compared to tytn2 or so Aug 26 13:54:37 actually it's the most shitty kbd I ever used (almost, maybe except the one on some casio wristwatch calculator) Aug 26 13:54:47 (m800) Aug 26 13:55:09 for the number of keys: It's not the main criterion Aug 26 13:55:24 more important is a really good layout Aug 26 13:55:35 * ShellEvil wishes he could make his own devices. Aug 26 13:55:37 for 2nd/3rd layer Aug 26 13:55:47 (as in laptops/...) Aug 26 13:57:48 LaF0rge: but I agree I as well would prefer a N810 alike kbd on N900 Aug 26 13:58:07 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * rc29058b34f02 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/query_manager.py: opimd: now *really* place entries without field which is used for sorting always on end ;) Aug 26 13:58:59 well, some crazy guys here are even using Dvorak :-P So probably you can get used to almost everything layout wise Aug 26 13:59:13 as long as the mechanical part is ok Aug 26 14:00:50 ~seen raster Aug 26 14:00:51 raster was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 15d 10h 55m 8s ago, saying: 'dunno'. Aug 26 14:01:22 LaF0rge: isn't he next door to you? :-P Aug 26 14:02:57 well, probably his employer locked hin in to a tamper-proof room :-) Aug 26 14:03:27 doc: not yet, i think he will be here soon Aug 26 14:04:07 and his employer is the same company that I am spending my time here in... and I managed to get everything (git, ssh, openvpn)funnelled through their web proxy ;) Aug 26 14:04:09 only mad dogs go to korea in August, no? Aug 26 14:04:33 why? Aug 26 14:04:40 climate Aug 26 14:04:50 it's less warm and less humid than taiwan Aug 26 14:04:53 in fact, not too different from germany Aug 26 14:05:11 oh, so it might be bearable actually Aug 26 14:06:28 openmoko: 03werner * r5542 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (delete.c gui.html): Aug 26 14:06:28 openmoko: - destroy_obj: when deleting width expressions, check that they're actually Aug 26 14:06:28 openmoko: non-NULL Aug 26 14:06:28 openmoko: - gui.html: added more details on selecting Aug 26 14:06:33 though I start to feel like Mirko even here the last days. Much too hot Aug 26 14:07:15 grrrr /ban CIA-52 Aug 26 14:08:04 I'm honestly tempted... :-( Aug 26 14:08:21 ? Aug 26 14:09:51 Wonka: Werner spamming this #chan with his gta02-core commit nitifications. I don't see the purpose Aug 26 14:10:22 hm, #openmoko-cdevel would be better, yes Aug 26 14:11:00 werner doesn't even care. He states this is "Public advertising" for core :-S Aug 26 14:11:28 I raised the issue several times to him. No reaction Aug 26 14:11:48 no surprise, as he isn't even joined in here Aug 26 14:12:56 probably it's just an issue of core living on same git/whatever cvs as openmoko does Aug 26 14:14:32 doc: yes, that's the case Aug 26 14:14:56 what is this "core" stuff anyway? Aug 26 14:15:23 I really think it's useless here at "user" #om anyway Aug 26 14:16:07 and I agree with wonka completely, not only for core. For OM kernel/whatever as well Aug 26 14:20:24 wonka: check wiki for gta02-core Aug 26 14:21:36 * DocScrutinizer will create a wikipage "hard-core" redirecting to gta02-core ;-P Aug 26 14:25:18 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * r57899d91854c 10/po/Makefile.in.in: typechange: po/Makefile.in.in Aug 26 14:28:07 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r23f99551b481 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/const.py: Aug 26 14:28:07 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: add number type 161 as reported by shishz Aug 26 14:28:07 freesmartphone.org: Closes FSO #469 Aug 26 14:31:59 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1d058fd865cf 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/gprs.py: ogsmd: add provider 'Telfort' to gprs. Thanks pander, closes FSO #394 Aug 26 14:38:23 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9aa355daab1a 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/gprs.py: ogsmd: add KPN, thanks dos1 Aug 26 14:48:34 POLL: http://doodle.com/sd2c8d8snr23eeqq - What distro you run on your Openmoko phone Aug 26 14:50:34 whoops. didnt add the version to the name. Aug 26 14:53:27 My Freerunner's AUX button is kaput. Is there some way to get into uBoot without that? Aug 26 14:53:54 It's probably simply fallen off the motherboard. Aug 26 14:54:10 Do you have a soldering iron? Aug 26 14:54:39 can't i use mp3's for ringtones? Aug 26 14:54:50 settings apps can't play Aug 26 14:55:01 ShellEvil: Yes, I do. Aug 26 14:55:25 rhkfin: getting plenty of response I see Aug 26 14:55:32 ShellEvil: But I don't have the star screw-driver to open the cover. Is there no "software way" of doing things? Aug 26 14:56:00 kstar: what happens if you hold down power - do you get into NOR uboot? Aug 26 14:56:03 Or is that aux Aug 26 14:56:17 The appropriate screwdriver is $2 on ebay Aug 26 14:56:26 * ShellEvil has no FR only GTA01. Aug 26 14:56:50 ShellEvil: If I boot with power held, it just does a normal boot Aug 26 14:56:50 aux it is Aug 26 14:56:55 hold aux, press power Aug 26 14:57:05 k Aug 26 14:57:10 yep Aug 26 14:57:27 I assume you've bricked it? Aug 26 14:58:35 Will that help? Aug 26 15:14:51 hi Aug 26 15:29:02 kstar: what bootloader do you currently have? Why do you want to enter NOR? Aug 26 15:29:26 DocScrutinizer: i'm using Dvorak and it is actually easier and cooler than qwerty, it's qwerty that's weird, not dvorak! :P Aug 26 15:30:28 kstar: to open the case you might want to try various flatscrewdrivers you've laying around, one of mine was a good fit. Aug 26 15:31:01 PaulFertser: I use uB00t Aug 26 15:31:11 PaulFertser: Okay, thanks. Will check the screwdriver. Aug 26 15:31:25 PaulFertser: I want to enter NOR to flash a different OS. Aug 26 15:31:37 kstar: you can do it from userspace as well. Aug 26 15:31:42 kstar: probably even faster. Aug 26 15:32:05 kstar: btw, did you apply strong force to the aux button? What could have happened with it? Aug 26 15:32:16 PaulFertser: Yes, I did try applying force. Aug 26 15:32:22 PaulFertser: How do I do it from user space? Aug 26 15:32:34 PaulFertser: And thanks a lot for the tip, the smallest of the flat screwdrivers works! Aug 26 15:32:37 kstar: i mean, was it some particular impact after which it stopped working? Aug 26 15:33:07 kstar: just "flash_eraseall /dev/mtdX; nandwrite -p /dev/mtdX" Aug 26 15:33:33 kstar: search the wiki for "flash_eraseall", you'll see examples. Aug 26 15:33:39 PaulFertser: that's faster than using dfu-util? Aug 26 15:34:09 Undrwater: i've heard it is, haven't tried myself. In fact i still have factory OM2007 on NAND (but a new kernel) Aug 26 15:34:57 PaulFertser: why continue to run 2007? Aug 26 15:35:01 PaulFertser: Oh, but I don't have shell access. I'm on QtExtended! Aug 26 15:35:29 kstar: you can ssh into qtextended, can you not? Aug 26 15:35:36 Undrwater: i don't run it of course. Just in case of emergency when i need to tweak something on my uSD. Aug 26 15:35:56 ahh..so you're running your OS of choice from SD Aug 26 15:36:02 kstar: hehe, it's like qtextended is WinMo ;) Aug 26 15:36:28 * kstar agrees Aug 26 15:36:39 Undrwater: yup, and it was Debian since i bought my FR. Aug 26 15:36:51 Where are the access screws of the FR? Aug 26 15:36:54 PaulFertser: ^ Aug 26 15:36:58 Any idea? Aug 26 15:36:58 kstar: QtE still has ssh access Aug 26 15:37:03 I found 2 Aug 26 15:37:11 kstar: there're only 2 Aug 26 15:37:16 PaulFertser: Yeah, but you need to set up that (I forgot the name) daemon Aug 26 15:37:20 kstar: there's a wiki page on disassembling. Aug 26 15:37:37 Okay, thanks. Aug 26 15:37:43 kstar: but basically after you unscrewed the 2 screws just start to take it apart starting from _bottom_ Aug 26 15:38:01 kstar: guitarpick or even fingernail works. Aug 26 15:38:16 it's fun Aug 26 15:38:35 PaulFertser: are you using FSO on deb? Aug 26 15:38:47 I don't exactly remember but i think i tried once to cut my fingrenails really really short and then i think i still managed to open the case. Aug 26 15:38:52 Undrwater: yes Aug 26 15:39:18 your own build, or is this available now/ Aug 26 15:39:22 ? Aug 26 15:39:36 At least i remember i wanted to prove something i guess it was opening the case with cut fingernails. Aug 26 15:40:03 Undrwater: i'm still running all python stuff (except fso-abyss) from git, cloned around MS5.5 times. Aug 26 15:40:13 you left them long to prove to the ladies that you could open them without breaking a fingernail :P Aug 26 15:40:22 Undrwater: i'm sure fso is packaged in even better state currently. Aug 26 15:40:46 i'll have to check it out again...H:1 states they may move to FSO Aug 26 15:41:35 played with the pre a couple days ago Aug 26 15:41:44 Undrwater: i was used to be too lazy to cut the fingernails and broke them routinely, mainly by trying to use in a screwdriver-fasion. But now i have to cut regularly because i go to some kind of rock-climbing training. Aug 26 15:42:05 good reason to cut nails :) Aug 26 15:42:15 * kstar doesn't have a guitar-pick Aug 26 15:42:26 * kstar is trying hard with fingernails - doesn't work Aug 26 15:42:59 kstar: did you get the screw under the sticker with the "x" on it? Aug 26 15:43:20 Undrwater: Yep Aug 26 15:43:38 looking at the wiki? Aug 26 15:46:13 Cool! Aug 26 15:46:13 Thanks a lot. Aug 26 15:46:33 got it? Aug 26 15:46:49 I see the actual push button has fallen off the "external" button Aug 26 15:46:50 Undrwater: Yep Aug 26 15:47:16 Oh well, nope, it's not that. Aug 26 15:47:22 It's just something very funny... Aug 26 15:48:12 kstar: make a photo! Aug 26 15:48:18 kstar: we like to laugh Aug 26 15:48:21 :D Aug 26 15:48:34 better than crying Aug 26 15:48:47 kstar: so, managed to use fingernails or found a guitarpick finally? ;) Aug 26 15:49:59 PaulFertser: Fingernails ;-) Aug 26 15:53:06 Thanks a lot, PaulFertser, Undrwater, ShellEvil. Aug 26 15:53:18 yw Aug 26 15:53:20 We wanted to do a presentation tomorrow with it, but then, I should get back to SHR :) Aug 26 15:53:37 kstar: so, what's the problem with the button? Aug 26 15:54:10 PaulFertser: The board seems to have moved away from the button, so pressing the button from outside, doesn't press the "real" button inside far enough. Aug 26 15:54:35 kstar: hm, strange, the board fits tightly in place usually... Aug 26 15:55:56 Ah, no Aug 26 15:55:59 That wasn't the problem. Aug 26 15:56:28 PaulFertser: Due to repeated pressing, the button had become inclined instead of being flat on the motherboard. Aug 26 15:56:44 It's almost fallen off then Aug 26 15:56:47 kstar: the button inclined? Aug 26 15:56:54 I pushed it down and it seems to work now. Aug 26 15:56:55 it will shortly fall off totally. Aug 26 15:57:00 But the solder isn't very weak as yet. Aug 26 15:57:04 kstar: so that means the soldering points are weak, right? Aug 26 15:57:17 kstar: how can that be? Aug 26 15:59:03 Even otherwise, there still seems to be some problem :-? Aug 26 15:59:26 91% of buttons on cellphones are not well secured. Aug 26 15:59:42 And tend to fail on pressing too hard/too often Aug 26 16:00:01 Aww, maybe it was just that the AUX button's external cover had fallen down to far. Aug 26 16:00:19 This is made much worse by many buttons not having tactile effects that are enough to be easily felt - so they get pressed too hard Aug 26 16:00:23 It seems to work now. In any case, since I now know how to open it, I should be able to fix it unless something goes terribly wrong. Aug 26 16:00:32 Soldering it on now properly is probably easy Aug 26 16:00:36 as it's in the right position. Aug 26 16:01:39 kstar: yes, ShellEvil is right provided you can solder ;) Aug 26 16:03:37 PaulFertser, ShellEvil: But I don't have an SMD soldering iron Aug 26 16:03:47 kstar: there's no difference Aug 26 16:04:24 Okay. Aug 26 16:04:36 I solder on the top of the board, right? Aug 26 16:04:58 kstar: you solder it back in place Aug 26 16:05:32 That's from the top, right? Since it's an SMD push button... Aug 26 16:05:52 kstar: right Aug 26 16:06:05 Plus, my soldering iron tip is pretty large - like the conventional component ones. You really mean that isn't a problem? Aug 26 16:08:01 kstar: if it's a regular tip you can sharpen it or change to some piece of thin cuprum wire... Aug 26 16:08:10 kstar: let me show you something... Aug 26 16:08:32 SM2k: plenty resonses - that's good :) Aug 26 16:08:35 kstar: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/useless_buzzfix/ Aug 26 16:09:02 kstar: i first removed the wire (in red insulation), then removed insulation and soldered the wire back. With that iron. Aug 26 16:16:19 PaulFertser: Wow. That's more primitive than my iron. Aug 26 16:16:30 And thanks a lot... indeed it was the soldering Aug 26 16:16:42 I resoldered the contacts, and it's perfect now, much to my surprise. Aug 26 16:16:51 I didn't realise it was weak because things were sitting in place. Aug 26 16:17:21 Will post pics in a while Aug 26 16:18:26 s/while/a few days/ O_o Aug 26 16:19:54 kstar: :-O Aug 26 16:21:34 s/days/years/ Aug 26 16:21:54 I don't think that'll happen ;-) Aug 26 16:21:56 It's just days Aug 26 16:22:08 Anyway, I need to go and give the phone to a developer who's demoing it Aug 26 16:22:10 Thanks a lot Aug 26 16:22:15 :) Aug 26 16:24:32 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/the-kopp-etchells-effect.htm?beautiful Aug 26 16:25:12 Guys, try to google "recursion" Aug 26 16:26:32 See the completion list for 'i am ex' Aug 26 16:26:34 on google Aug 26 16:28:48 PaulFertser: heh, recursion's nice :) Aug 26 16:29:49 PaulFertser: I don't know if you're already fed up with this or have I missed something, but a) do you have the rights to commit to andy-tracking b) any changes of uploading the wlan patch there? c) also some lines for gentoo installation are available.. Aug 26 16:31:58 ShellEvil: there was an extremely funny completion suggested if one entered "how t" (in russian): it suggested "how to shut up that fucking dray" and there was another suggestion "how to make that it'll release me please" (here release means stop the effect of drug-abuse) Aug 26 16:32:34 rhkfin: i've right to commit to andy-tracking Aug 26 16:32:48 rhkfin: some chances after it gets tested by somebody and Werner will agree. Aug 26 16:32:57 rhkfin: c) i can't understand Aug 26 16:34:27 PaulFertser: a) b) great, c) wait a sec.. Aug 26 16:36:21 what's a dray? Aug 26 16:36:45 mjr: a 4-wheeled village vehicle pulled by horses usually. Aug 26 16:36:48 PaulFertser: "build doesn't find Gentoos cross-compiler' -> installation is hard. Someone might write a patch.. Aug 26 16:36:57 I .. seee Aug 26 16:37:20 rhkfin: what's the problem with specifying CROSS_COMPILE=/whatever/path/to/gcc ./build ? Aug 26 16:38:50 PaulFertser: Trying to get the guy here to talk to you.. Aug 26 16:39:22 yes Aug 26 16:39:47 PaulFertser: Ke is the guy.. Aug 26 16:39:54 Ke: 19:37 < PaulFertser> rhkfin: what's the problem with specifying CROSS_COMPILE=/whatever/path/to/gcc ./build ? Aug 26 16:41:09 hmm actually, the code is there already Aug 26 16:41:14 so none Aug 26 16:41:47 Ke: :D Aug 26 16:42:11 Ke: are you going to cross-compile emacs btw? ;) Aug 26 16:42:20 Ke: i know you gentoo guys like crosscompiling. Aug 26 16:42:27 I don't use emacs Aug 26 16:42:59 Ke: i suspect it can become an ultimate framework for an excellent user experience on FR. Aug 26 16:43:30 D Aug 26 16:44:27 Ke: so if anyone in gentoo community will be going to perform it, i can give some advice on partial (full is not possible anyway) solution. At least now i know how emacs's native compilation works. Aug 26 16:45:45 now I just wonder why isn't build the recommended way of building the gentoo kernel Aug 26 16:46:28 (I just blindly edited over the CROSS_COMPILE=...) Aug 26 16:47:07 Ke: probably because the build script is an openmoko-only "invention". Aug 26 16:47:34 well still gentoo unofficila manual recommends andy-tracking Aug 26 17:02:20 also vala-terminal is using 20% of memory Aug 26 17:02:41 all the om2009 configuration files seem to be binary Aug 26 17:40:35 has someone a working htop.desktop? i have terminal=true in it, but no terminal spawns Aug 26 19:15:23 where has the repository for 2007.2 moved to? i can't find it at downloads.openmoko.org anymore Aug 26 19:25:29 naeg:.... (away:-( ) nevertheless.... htop seems broken. valatern doesn't respond good to the cmdline the .desktop tries to kick off Aug 26 19:26:13 ace_: probably botrotten to invisible dust Aug 26 19:26:21 bIt Aug 26 19:30:26 DocScrutinizer: where is the .desktop-file? Aug 26 19:31:13 find / -name "*.desktop" Aug 26 19:32:07 good point Aug 26 19:32:16 ./usr/share/applications/ Aug 26 19:41:42 ace_: yes, most likely you don't want that... Aug 26 19:52:48 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rb3468181e839 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (12 files in 2 dirs): opimd: implement _initialized in backends Aug 26 20:19:05 Doc Aug 26 20:19:14 pm? Aug 26 20:21:11 the micro coaxial cable to the gps antenna module is tested with ohm meter? Aug 26 20:21:15 correct? Aug 26 20:22:23 the center lead should be insulated from the outer shielding? Aug 26 20:22:41 rhkfin: anything is better than 2008.x :) Aug 26 20:22:46 Slaxxer: it should be insulated, sure Aug 26 20:23:33 it's the most unintuitive interface i've ever had the displeasure of using, which is why i'm sticking to 2007 Aug 26 20:23:56 ace_: 2008.x is dead Aug 26 20:23:56 the center lead should have continuity from the module to the center of the microplug Aug 26 20:24:04 ace_: nobody's using it for long-long time Aug 26 20:24:17 Slaxxer: yes, it's just a coaxial cable. Aug 26 20:24:22 Slaxxer: at least that's my understanding Aug 26 20:24:34 i guess i need 2 Aug 26 20:25:07 paul: what are people using then? 2009? that's still in testing Aug 26 20:25:11 Slaxxer: 2 what? Aug 26 20:25:21 ace_: 2008 was _never_ good. Aug 26 20:25:22 gps modules Aug 26 20:25:30 ace_: Most people are using SHR. Aug 26 20:25:31 paul: i know it wasn't :) Aug 26 20:25:36 antennae Aug 26 20:25:40 ace_: and SHR already has Paroli in the feeds. Aug 26 20:25:53 Slaxxer: to compare? Aug 26 20:25:57 no Aug 26 20:26:23 alright, i might give that a try then, it still has libtool-gsm right ? Aug 26 20:26:26 i need 2 antenna modules with the coaxial cable Aug 26 20:27:16 ace_: started this today, check what most people use: http://doodle.com/sd2c8d8snr23eeqq Aug 26 20:27:19 then i need another replacement screen:) Aug 26 20:27:46 ace_: no Aug 26 20:27:57 ace_: completely different stack: FSO Aug 26 20:28:05 Slaxxer: what are you trying to do? Aug 26 20:28:42 fix 2 freerunners Aug 26 20:28:46 ah, i'll stick to 2007 then anyway, that just works for me :) Aug 26 20:29:55 ace_: you should have sticked to a nokia dumb cellphone then. Aug 26 20:30:03 1 has no continuity on the center lead an the 2nd ,, i broke it myself:) Aug 26 20:30:03 PaulFertser: heh : Aug 26 20:30:14 Slaxxer: you can get cable like the coax Aug 26 20:30:20 Slaxxer: but maybe not easily Aug 26 20:30:21 ace have u tried shr? Aug 26 20:30:50 no, does it have libgsmd-tool ? Aug 26 20:30:57 no i just want to replace the antenna module Aug 26 20:31:12 SpeedEvil: what about the plug? I'm not sure how exactly it's connected to the cable. Aug 26 20:31:26 yes i observed how noe easy it is Aug 26 20:31:33 t Aug 26 20:35:55 ace_: in SHR there is no libgsm-tool, but sending sms works well :] Aug 26 20:35:55 im thinking that the gps antenna needs to be part of the board Aug 26 20:35:55 there's a command line tool for sms sending? or some library i can link to that does not require x? Aug 26 20:35:55 ace_: sure, Aug 26 20:36:01 Slaxxer: do You wan't to plug external GPS antenna ? Aug 26 20:36:01 ace_: dbus-send is there for your pleasure. Aug 26 20:36:14 and that speaker white plastic box is what is causing the echo an stuff Aug 26 20:36:15 tomcatek: he talks about the internal one. Aug 26 20:36:58 i just need 2 replacement antenna modules:) Aug 26 20:37:22 so i dont have to have an externen ant. Aug 26 20:37:23 ah, i'll try shr on one of my phones then Aug 26 20:37:48 ace_: take shr unstable, testing is considerably worse. Aug 26 20:37:49 use the lite image 090808 unstableee Aug 26 20:37:53 Slaxxer: what's wrong with the built-in one/ Aug 26 20:37:54 ? Aug 26 20:38:09 iBROKE it Aug 26 20:38:24 tomcatek: try to disassemble the FR 20 times and not brake the coaxial wire going to the antenna ;) Aug 26 20:38:25 operator malfunction Aug 26 20:38:45 hehehe Aug 26 20:38:47 i replaced my diusplay screen Aug 26 20:38:56 ou... Aug 26 20:39:03 Slaxxer: oled one? Aug 26 20:39:33 i hit it with a tree limb while in my pocket Aug 26 20:39:59 ou... that might hurt... Aug 26 20:40:37 if i would have it backwards in my pocket it would not of happened Aug 26 20:48:09 openmoko: 03daveb * r5543 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ge865.lib: ge865 pin type changes Aug 26 20:52:48 Slaxxer: think it's possible to isolate that speaker box to reduce echo? Aug 26 20:53:32 maybe a small o-ring or something Aug 26 21:06:30 openmoko: 03werner * r5544 10/trunk/gta02-core/modules/332fbga-p05.fpd: Aug 26 21:06:30 openmoko: - modules/332fbga-p05.fpd: set package name to "332FBGA-P0.5" (before, it used Aug 26 21:06:30 openmoko: just the default, "_") Aug 26 21:10:55 speakerbox fixing ideas are nonsense. sorry Aug 26 21:12:26 Slaxxer: where do you live? Aug 26 21:20:19 openmoko: 03werner * r5545 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (bt.sch gta02-core.sch modem.sch scripts/all-sheets wlan.sch): Aug 26 21:20:19 openmoko: - scripts/all-sheets: added WLAN sheet Aug 26 21:20:19 openmoko: - bt.sch: moved WLAN to separate sheet wlan.sch Aug 26 21:20:19 openmoko: - modem.sch: new sheet for the GSM modem Aug 26 21:20:50 center usa Aug 26 21:21:31 yes i do think it is Aug 26 21:22:23 maybe a rubber box instead Aug 26 21:24:40 at least some kink of noise canceling material instead of a plastic box inside of a plastic box Aug 26 21:25:59 make the box from scrith. Aug 26 21:26:28 DocScrutinizer: why nonsense? Aug 26 21:27:02 SpeedEvil: if only ;) Aug 26 21:30:15 doit speedy Aug 26 21:30:58 use the freerunner box liner to make it:) Aug 26 21:31:09 br perfect Aug 26 21:32:21 hmm Aug 26 21:32:25 great idea Aug 26 21:32:50 any ideas why DocScrutinizer pooh-poohed it? Aug 26 21:33:24 maybe doc will enlighten me:) Aug 26 21:33:30 Undrwater: i can't exactly suggest or explain anything but i can tell you about my testing. Aug 26 21:33:53 proly the speaker mounting Aug 26 21:34:09 Undrwater: i tried to investigate echo and found that it's not there when i use only the board and the front casing. Aug 26 21:34:25 of course not Aug 26 21:34:29 mmhmm Aug 26 21:34:45 simple physics Aug 26 21:34:47 Undrwater: if i add the back casing, the echo increases. If i screw the case parts together, it gets even stronger. Aug 26 21:34:58 vibration Aug 26 21:35:02 Undrwater: if i enable calypso echo supression, it disappears. Aug 26 21:35:21 speaker next to the mic Aug 26 21:35:42 completely? Aug 26 21:35:57 Slaxxer: in my testing, yes. Aug 26 21:36:08 Slaxxer: i called fixed line. Aug 26 21:36:13 but not speakerphone Aug 26 21:36:22 openmoko: 03werner * r5546 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (cpu.sch io.sch): Aug 26 21:36:22 openmoko: - cpu.sch: implemented nACCEL_CS removal, freeing EINT8/GPG0 Aug 26 21:36:22 openmoko: - io.sch: implemented nACCEL_CS removal, removing R7810 Aug 26 21:36:22 openmoko: - io.sch: added pointer to ECN0016 Aug 26 21:36:49 Undrwater: unfortunately, not. They're too close probably. Aug 26 21:36:50 gooood Aug 26 21:37:04 white silly is for SPEAKER. If you use speakerphone (which btw has very few echo here on SHR-u), then the white silly is your least problem. If you use earpiece transducer (handset mode), then white silly isn't involved at all. So.... explain to me why it's NO nonsense Aug 26 21:37:49 openmoko: 03werner * r5547 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (STATUS ecn0016.txt): - moved ECN0016 to "Execute" (review, really) Aug 26 21:39:09 DocScrutinizer: can't...speakerphone here has great echo (shr-u) on other party's side...speakerphone is not using white silly? Aug 26 21:39:56 openmoko: 03rehar * r5548 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (ecn0032.txt ecn0033.txt): Aug 26 21:39:56 openmoko: - removed CRLF in ECN0032 Aug 26 21:39:56 openmoko: - changed C3008 to C3006, added C4406 and added possible capacitors to ECN0033 Aug 26 21:40:15 speaker has it's output next to mic input hole. You'll gain *nothing* on fidling with white silly Aug 26 21:40:38 DocScrutinizer: but can't some isolation be done? Aug 26 21:40:47 how? Aug 26 21:41:20 reducing vibration between output and mic input Aug 26 21:41:25 build a wall alonf long meridian of freerunner - across the screen and backlid? Aug 26 21:41:36 :D Aug 26 21:41:43 if it could work...yes Aug 26 21:42:32 you have a speaker to the air and a mic next to it. how the hell do you think you can isolate it??? Aug 26 21:44:29 theres only 1 speaker any ways so why not let it speak out 1 side instead of revibrating inside the dang case? Aug 26 21:44:42 i was thinking of isolating some of the vibration created by the speaker, or at the mic itself... Aug 26 21:45:07 the mic is isolated to the inside Aug 26 21:45:23 i'm thnking of reducing the vibration of the component, not the vib in the air Aug 26 21:45:34 and I won't elaborate any further on that Aug 26 21:45:44 no...that makes sense Aug 26 21:46:15 is the speaker as well? Aug 26 21:46:23 no..it wouldn't be Aug 26 21:46:38 one Aug 26 21:47:11 an a plastic speaker holder that takes the sound everywhere but out of the phone Aug 26 21:48:12 im going to do it with my spare Aug 26 22:00:13 hi Aug 26 22:00:18 anyone around? Aug 26 22:00:33 using any type of uncured silicone will eat the electronics Aug 26 22:01:09 yup, around too, whats up? Aug 26 22:01:40 i want to ask where to start if i want to setup a simple hello world software for openmoko fso Aug 26 22:05:34 wow...big update on shr-u Aug 26 22:05:44 ...in python? just type away and run in the interpretor. In C++? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Aug 26 22:08:37 which of python and c++ is better from your point of view and why? Aug 26 22:15:18 Which is better - a wife, or a dog? Aug 26 22:15:34 They are different things that sometimes are useful for overlapping stuff. Aug 26 22:15:36 Wife Aug 26 22:15:58 azaghal: not if you want to have them fetch sticks. :) Aug 26 22:16:02 Try doing you know what with dog... Aug 26 22:16:21 Python is for some things much faster to develop for. Aug 26 22:16:32 It can be lots slower though, and use lots more RAM. Aug 26 22:16:58 If the python code only uses 1% of the CPU though - that doesn't really matter. Aug 26 22:17:06 Python might be interesting for prototyping. Aug 26 22:17:31 If you're trying to do stuff with large volumes of data that change fast in python, you've probably lost. Aug 26 22:17:35 also python is an abomination without proper typing Aug 26 22:17:41 The main reason why Python is nice, though, is no need for recompilation :) Aug 26 22:17:54 * ndnihil high fives ke Aug 26 22:17:59 you can compile moderately large programs on the FR. Aug 26 22:18:03 It's not _that_ slow. Aug 26 22:18:32 SpeedEvil: Well, I'd probably try to setup distcc here. (my desktop machine's rather nice) Aug 26 22:19:07 It's probably on the order of only 20-30* slower than a normal desktop Aug 26 22:19:19 maybe faster. Aug 26 22:19:43 but gcc can do quite a large file in a second even still. Aug 26 22:19:52 especially if you're using make the right way. Aug 26 22:21:41 Ke: that's why you use an external keyboard. Aug 26 22:22:12 hmm Aug 26 22:22:19 ! Aug 26 22:22:33 which of the two has agile gui development? Aug 26 22:23:00 since i only worked with swing and delphi Aug 26 22:31:05 thanks for all the answers. have a nice day Aug 27 01:28:07 does anyone know who is in charge of the openmoko lists, im subscriber to support but im not allowed to post, no response from support-owner@lists.openmoko.org in a couple of months Aug 27 01:29:43 communications are really important for communities such as these and its really bad to be silently disrupting/disabling communications without an explanation Aug 27 01:30:11 if the community doesnt have the manpower to adminster the list then they should speak up Aug 27 01:31:09 i can be contacted at glenn.l.mcgrath@gmail.com if anyone can help me post to the list. Aug 27 02:34:09 Hello, there is no rsync package available? Aug 27 02:55:09 CosmicDuck: Hi me. Aug 27 02:55:30 CosmicDuck_: Hi me, too. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 27 02:59:57 2009