**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 05 02:59:58 2009 Sep 05 03:05:52 AlexC: yes if you have a running system to partition the card Sep 05 03:13:10 how do i mount fr's /dev/mmcblk0 on my desktop? Sep 05 03:18:23 AlexC: no card reader? Sep 05 03:18:57 not on me Sep 05 03:19:06 is that the only way? Sep 05 03:19:20 what distro? Sep 05 03:19:38 archlinux desktop, shr fr Sep 05 03:19:42 if u can't ssh to fr yes its the only way Sep 05 03:19:50 i can ssh Sep 05 03:20:01 but i need to mount it on my desktop Sep 05 03:20:10 why ? Sep 05 03:20:35 btw use sshfs Sep 05 03:20:39 to install an OS on it that needs utils that aren't on my shr Sep 05 03:20:48 okay Sep 05 03:21:00 mount your card folder with sshfs Sep 05 03:21:02 sshfs? Sep 05 03:21:14 must be in your desktop repositories Sep 05 03:21:18 that's a new one on me :) good to know Sep 05 03:21:26 not packaged with ssh? Sep 05 03:21:30 very usefull :p Sep 05 03:21:33 no Sep 05 03:21:38 is that a package separate to openssh? Sep 05 03:21:45 lr Sep 05 03:21:47 it got his own package Sep 05 03:21:59 or just use scp to copy over inficudual files Sep 05 03:22:00 sshfs if I remember Sep 05 03:22:09 or tar+ssh Sep 05 03:22:11 SpeedEvil: that's damn slow tho Sep 05 03:22:14 scp -r is good too Sep 05 03:22:19 dun know if sshfs is faster Sep 05 03:22:27 sshfs and scp are the same speed AIUI Sep 05 03:22:34 ahh Sep 05 03:22:37 since it use ssh as scp Sep 05 03:22:41 damn slow then :) Sep 05 03:22:46 same speed yes Sep 05 03:23:07 also - you're going to be going at well under a meg a second due to USB and SD slowdowns Sep 05 03:23:31 its just more handy than scp Sep 05 03:23:33 usb1.1? Sep 05 03:23:46 soudns more handy...cause sftp doesn't work Sep 05 03:24:09 hmm...not called sshfs in gentoo Sep 05 03:24:35 ahhh...sshfs-fuse Sep 05 03:24:46 sshfs - filesystem client based on SSH File Transfer Protocol // on ubuntu/debian Sep 05 03:24:48 uses sftp Sep 05 03:25:06 which hasn't worked for me yet Sep 05 03:25:56 ok...worked on CLI...but doesn't work w/ konq or other FM Sep 05 03:27:08 doh! now i know why :) Sep 05 03:28:02 sh-4.0$ sshfs root@192.168.0.202:/sd /sd Sep 05 03:28:02 can't find the accels in /dev Sep 05 03:28:02 root@192.168.0.202's password: Sep 05 03:28:02 fusermount: user has no write access to mountpoint /sd Sep 05 03:28:15 hehe Sep 05 03:28:17 have to be root Sep 05 03:28:31 man i'm stupid Sep 05 03:28:40 AlexC: run whatever as sudo Sep 05 03:28:42 or root Sep 05 03:28:50 sh-4.0$ sudo sshfs root@192.168.0.202:/sd /sd Sep 05 03:28:50 read: Connection reset by peer Sep 05 03:28:51 i've been stupid for several days now :) Sep 05 03:28:55 accels needs a packet in order to work ? Sep 05 03:29:00 on shr ? Sep 05 03:29:36 AlexC: is that how it's used? Sep 05 03:29:51 try sudo sftp 192.168.0.202:/ Sep 05 03:32:26 does shr have sftp? Sep 05 03:33:06 How does one run the vibrator? (Cant launch a web browser at the mokent, they nom memorys too much. D: Sep 05 03:33:23 default is dropbear iirc...but it accepts sftp client Sep 05 03:33:29 plus i need to mount it, does ftp support mountpoints Sep 05 03:33:41 through fuse it does Sep 05 03:34:07 your desktop is doing the mounting...not the neo, right? Sep 05 03:35:22 yes Sep 05 03:35:43 my freerunner doesn't appear to have sftp or ftp on it Sep 05 03:36:43 did you try the command i gave you? Sep 05 03:36:59 yes Sep 05 03:37:54 http://pastebin.ca/1554560 Sep 05 03:38:19 there isn't anything in known_hosts Sep 05 03:38:59 wait Sep 05 03:39:00 dw Sep 05 03:39:12 got it? Sep 05 03:39:27 okay Sep 05 03:39:33 Changing to: / Sep 05 03:39:34 sftp> Sep 05 03:39:38 there u go Sep 05 03:40:12 now you have to figure out how to use sshfs-fuse...probably you can add it as a line in your fstab Sep 05 03:40:20 not mounted automatically tho Sep 05 03:50:31 i'm so confused Sep 05 04:00:38 cat: /sd: Is a directory Sep 05 04:00:39 sh-4.0$ cd /sd Sep 05 04:00:39 sh: cd: /sd: Not a directory Sep 05 04:12:35 AlexC: where are you? Sep 05 04:13:04 australia Sep 05 04:13:06 why? Sep 05 04:14:08 :D i meant in terms of accessing your device :) Sep 05 04:14:20 i figured it out Sep 05 04:14:22 chin scratching stage Sep 05 04:14:25 i had to chown Sep 05 04:14:25 ahh Sep 05 04:14:49 it wouldn't even let my user read the dir Sep 05 04:15:05 now i'm running an install script Sep 05 04:29:09 man this is taking ages Sep 05 04:32:56 yep :) Sep 05 04:33:09 card reader is tons faster Sep 05 05:37:09 is it possible to right-click? Sep 05 05:41:26 not system wide...but where you can, yes Sep 05 05:41:38 some places in enlightenment is tap and hold Sep 05 05:41:42 for copy Sep 05 05:42:01 if it's a gtk app, you can select and ctrl+c, etc... Sep 05 05:44:42 Undrwater, i see. it's just that the midori browser has lost its tab menu (file, tools etc). Sep 05 05:45:11 according to #midori to get them back i need to right-click Sep 05 05:47:11 vnc Sep 05 05:48:47 ndnihil, vnc? Sep 05 05:49:07 yep Sep 05 05:49:50 ndnihil, that's not intended for me is it? :) Sep 05 05:50:04 it is if you're the one who wants to right click Sep 05 05:50:15 vncserver on the FR Sep 05 05:50:24 vnc client on the workstation Sep 05 05:50:39 use your regular mouse Sep 05 05:50:47 s/regular/workstation/ Sep 05 05:50:47 ndnihil meant: use your workstation mouse Sep 05 05:50:51 * ndnihil stabs apt Sep 05 05:51:10 ndnihil, ah i see... thanks ndnihil.... :) Sep 05 05:51:14 np Sep 05 05:53:40 ndnihil, it's basically just an issue with the midori browser... Sep 05 05:53:55 midori sucks Sep 05 05:54:23 i turned it fullscreen from a drop down menu and you can't get the menus back without right-clicking Sep 05 05:54:39 ah Sep 05 05:54:42 ndnihil, yeah... i think i agree! :) Sep 05 05:55:00 you can probably just edit/remove its config Sep 05 05:55:28 ndnihil, yes i was going down that path... i need to locate it Sep 05 05:56:21 ~/.config/midori/config Sep 05 05:57:03 ndnihil, thanks Sep 05 05:57:03 or maybe session.xbel Sep 05 05:57:24 maybe not Sep 05 05:58:08 i think the first is correct. read elsewhere of people needing to delete the config file for issues similar but on other platforms Sep 05 05:58:53 is there a good web browser in the works somewhere? Sep 05 05:58:54 * LiL_mr-t is plugging FR to netbook now... Sep 05 05:59:08 dillo is nice and quick if you dont need javascript/java/etc... Sep 05 06:00:15 thanks ndnihil, will keep that in mind.... Sep 05 06:00:22 np Sep 05 06:00:42 for when i get rid of midori! ;) Sep 05 06:01:28 you'll probably end up keeping both Sep 05 06:01:45 dillo for whatever sites you can use it for, and midori for the sites with js Sep 05 06:04:03 ndnihil, deleting config file worked, thanks Sep 05 06:04:31 ndnihil, i'll just have to remember not to switch it to fullscreen in future :) Sep 05 06:08:48 I heard woosh (I think is its name?) was pretty decent Sep 05 06:08:53 haven't tried it myself though Sep 05 06:09:00 it is Sep 05 06:09:07 not sure how it compares to midori or dillo Sep 05 06:09:10 does anyone know how i can achieve the same as this, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Usb_networking#For_devices_showing_as_eth1 , from the command line, without the need for networkmanager applet? Sep 05 06:09:57 that shell script should work Sep 05 06:10:26 #!/bin/bash Sep 05 06:10:26 sudo iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 Sep 05 06:10:26 sudo sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Sep 05 06:10:26 sudo ifconfig eth2 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 Sep 05 06:10:30 that's the one I use Sep 05 06:11:17 ndnihil, thanks, i'll try it Sep 05 06:11:53 be sure to switch eth2 with whatever your device shows up as Sep 05 06:12:05 ndnihil, sure Sep 05 06:15:31 ndnihill, the sudo iptables -A... command returns saying it can't initialize iptables table 'nat', the table does not exist Sep 05 06:16:04 asks if i need to insmod Sep 05 06:16:10 do you? Sep 05 06:16:17 do an iptables -L Sep 05 06:17:01 shows chain input, chain forward and chain output Sep 05 06:17:31 lsmod |grep ip_tables Sep 05 06:17:35 under each target, prot opt source and destination, it's blank Sep 05 06:17:38 well, I guess the module is loaded if the -L works Sep 05 06:18:57 lsmod | grep ip_tables shows iptables 23200 1 iptable filter Sep 05 06:18:59 and Sep 05 06:19:18 x_tables 29456 1 ip_tables Sep 05 06:19:34 *shrug*, should be fine Sep 05 06:19:44 ok, i'll continue Sep 05 06:24:05 ndnihil, still unable to ping outside world Sep 05 06:24:44 ndnihil, can make connection to FR, but can't get internet access Sep 05 06:25:04 wont without the masquerade and forwarding enabled Sep 05 06:26:59 ndnihil, and that's what's failing with the first command right? Sep 05 06:27:25 the iptables line sets up the masquerade Sep 05 06:27:44 the sysctl line sets ip forwarding Sep 05 06:27:52 and of course the ifconfig configures the interface Sep 05 06:29:16 i gather the last two commands worked fine Sep 05 07:53:00 at boot, is the message FAT: invalid media value (0x00) expected with the latest SHR-unstable distro? Sep 05 07:55:41 LiL_mr-t: lacking context but my best guess it's harmless. Sep 05 08:44:01 PaulFertser: thanks. it occurs when the boot splash screen appears, across the middle of the screen in small white letters. it shows two lines, both giving the same message. Sep 05 10:01:48 Hi! I have installed SHR lite (20090808). I installed pidgin, and thats working fine, except the sound. I can not get it to work. It did work when I had the shr testing installed. How can I get sound to work? Sep 05 10:15:21 TeNoVi: does anything else play sound? Sep 05 10:16:01 I would try my usual approach when sound does not work on linux. Sep 05 10:16:05 blindcoder, Yes. I have tried several applications that makes sound Sep 05 10:16:25 TeNoVi: then it's probably a pidgin issue Sep 05 10:16:41 Scream at the suckiness of linux sound. Sep 05 10:16:46 TeNoVi: I don't use pidgin, but maybe you can check its options, check if its sound files are installed and try to play those soundfiles manually Sep 05 10:16:53 there is an edit->preferences->pidgin Sep 05 10:16:56 or something Sep 05 10:16:58 SpeedEvil: my linux sound is fine :P Sep 05 10:17:14 but so far I never got printing working on linux Sep 05 10:17:20 not that I'd really NEED it, but still Sep 05 10:18:50 Yes there is some settings for pidgin and sound. I have tried those. I have also tried to change the sounds in the .xml file Sep 05 10:19:30 hi all Sep 05 10:23:48 By the way. The shr image it is linked to in this channel, I can not find it. Where is it? Is the link wrong? Sep 05 10:32:54 The download link only works if your heart is pure! Sep 05 10:33:03 TeNoVi: http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ look for files like shr-full-glibc-ipk--20090808-om-gta02.rootfs.* Sep 05 10:35:47 DocScrutinizer, Yes, but there is not any file named that Sep 05 10:36:02 DocScrutinizer, Or not as I can see Sep 05 10:37:17 indeed, you're right. Thos Bas.... from SHR removed the full image :-) Sep 05 10:37:44 allegedly because it was broken iirc Sep 05 10:37:58 dunno what's broken there, worked fine for me Sep 05 10:38:04 anyone with gta01 here ? and maybe working qi ? Sep 05 10:38:25 seem I have to provide it once again in my people folder Sep 05 10:39:46 TeNoVi: for now install the lite image, and "opk install shr-task-???" (sth like games, full, etc... sorry can't remember off the top of my head) Sep 05 10:40:20 DocScrutinizer, Thanks Sep 05 10:40:52 yw Sep 05 11:26:00 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r93edef6673e1 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/audio.py: odeviced: fix org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.GetInfo() implementation Sep 05 11:33:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rb1d851c40f9f 10/org.freesmartphone.Device/org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.xml.in: org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.xml: add expected tuples for org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.GetInfo Sep 05 11:37:35 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1648a4afff8b 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/audio.py: odeviced: add list of available scenarios in org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio Sep 05 11:46:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r6b2cd00f4199 10/vapi/elm.vapi: elm.vapi: add Spinner object and additional Scroller API as of upstream SVN rev 42202 Sep 05 12:01:13 hi Sep 05 12:01:18 hello every one Sep 05 12:03:24 hi Sep 05 12:03:43 helloo freerunnerlive Sep 05 12:03:49 how r u ? Sep 05 12:11:08 hey PaulFertser Sep 05 12:11:28 where does SHR get his mkfs.jffs2 from? can't find it in my logs :( Sep 05 12:58:44 HI All, Sep 05 12:58:59 Does anyone know where i can find enlighenment themes to use on the openmnoko ? Sep 05 13:14:05 hi Sep 05 13:39:56 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd53fca8d933f 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: Sep 05 13:39:56 freesmartphone.org: odeviced: kernel26: always use ioctls for talking to the realtime clock Sep 05 13:39:56 freesmartphone.org: Warning: API change: This commit brings the exported interface in line with the FSO specs Sep 05 13:39:57 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r721044618a57 10/framework/subsystems/otimed/alarm.py: otimed: alarm: catch up with API change in kernel26_rtc Sep 05 14:42:57 does anybody have #1024 fix pic Sep 05 15:07:40 UberNeo: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-May/001194.html Sep 05 15:09:13 UberNeo: actually http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/attachments/20090525/d968961a/attachment-0001.jpeg in http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-May/001192.html Sep 05 15:29:55 http://people.openmoko.org/werner/1024-done.jpg Sep 05 15:32:52 the first picture is an examle of parallel inplementation of a second 10uF. The second picture is showing replacement of original 10uF by a 22uF (iirc) Sep 05 15:32:56 naeg: hey Sep 05 15:33:09 naeg: i'm not ignoring you, just you ping me at the wrong times lately ;) Sep 05 15:33:23 PaulFertser: np ;) Sep 05 15:33:24 hey paul :-) Sep 05 15:33:37 PaulFertser: hey btw, what about the git? can't find it :( Sep 05 15:33:41 DocScrutinizer: hey, good day :D Sep 05 15:33:50 naeg: can't find what exactly? Sep 05 15:34:03 PaulFertser: the git where SHR takes it's mkfs.jffs2 Sep 05 15:34:13 naeg: ah, ok Sep 05 15:34:19 the one from RH seemed not to work somehow Sep 05 15:36:05 naeg: what's the deal with ubifs? Still not mountable? Sep 05 15:36:35 PaulFertser: i get unknown fs type Sep 05 15:36:57 PaulFertser: we want to mkfs.ubifs on mtdblock6 and mount it to see if it works Sep 05 15:37:04 naeg: git://git.infradead.org/mtd-utils.git;protocol=git Sep 05 15:37:28 naeg: protocol=git is not needed of course :) Sep 05 15:37:36 btw i ubinized the ubifs image to get a ubi image and tried it also, it's like this: ubifs works on the top ob ubi which works direct on the mtd Sep 05 15:38:22 thanks for the git Sep 05 15:38:35 naeg: ah, i wasn't aware ubinization is needed Sep 05 15:38:58 well i am not sure if it's really needed, but i have both images now Sep 05 15:39:10 and both don't work ;) how awesome Sep 05 15:41:12 naeg: i'd really recommend you to compile the latest kernel for your host and try all that stuff on host, much faster and convenient. Don't forget you need ram device, ordinary loopback doesn't work (iirc), read how to read jffs2 images. Sep 05 15:42:17 PaulFertser: well compiling a kernel takes me about 2-3 hours :( Sep 05 15:42:46 i will try that thing with mkfs.ubifs on mtdblock6 first Sep 05 15:43:02 naeg: you're compiling on the device? Sep 05 15:44:19 SpeedEvil: no we have an unique way of building: we chroot into a qemu emulated arm environment, in which we compile things for our device and what we compile we can use in buildenv too, which saves us much time. and for compiling etc we use native things, because it's faster than emulating Sep 05 15:44:25 ah Sep 05 15:44:57 It saves you so much time it takes only 2-3 hours to compile a kernel? Sep 05 15:45:12 SpeedEvil: this is because my pc has just 1,5 ghz ;) Sep 05 15:45:34 but i'll get my new laptop soon. see here for more info about the buildenv: http://www.archmobile.org/trac/wiki/AFR/BuildEnvironment Sep 05 15:46:43 naeg: you didn't understand me Sep 05 15:46:52 naeg: i mean compile kernel for your HOST Sep 05 15:48:12 naeg: have you considered buying some small arm computer, like Sheevaplug for that? Sep 05 15:48:17 PaulFertser: i know, but this also takes me 2-3 hours Sep 05 15:48:35 PaulFertser: not really, i don't have the money for that Sep 05 15:49:23 naeg: also have you considered using your FR for managing compile and distcc (with pump support) for actual compiling? Saves helluva time Sep 05 15:50:29 PaulFertser: sure that this is faster? we used as i said native target compiler, other stuff is emulated, can't complain about speed Sep 05 15:50:30 naeg: sheevaplug is about $120 with delivery. Sep 05 15:51:32 PaulFertser: ok that's less than i thought, but as a student who just buyed a laptop...but i will think about it Sep 05 15:52:28 naeg: but i really advice using distcc. It's easier than usual crosscompiling because you don't have crosscompiled dependencies on host at all, but the compiling itself is lightning fast because it's not emulated. Sep 05 15:53:01 PaulFertser: we don't have crosscompiled deps too because we emulate them Sep 05 15:53:13 in our build env runs the same as on the neo Sep 05 15:53:20 outer things like gcc Sep 05 15:54:07 and deps of native things we just copy from host Sep 05 15:54:27 naeg: now after reading the wikipage i see :D Sep 05 15:55:12 PaulFertser: still sure that your way is faster? may i'll make a speedtest Sep 05 15:55:37 naeg: well, i was told that freerunner is faster than qemu in general Sep 05 15:56:07 naeg: if the link speed is not limiting factor i'd guess it might give you chance for a faster compilation. Sep 05 15:56:09 but the sheevaplug would be the best solution... Sep 05 15:58:13 naeg: what exactly do you use on host? If most of autofoo stuff is native then i guess your solution is faster. Sep 05 15:58:48 PaulFertser: see here: http://gitweb.archmobile.org/?p=archonfreerunner.git;a=tree;f=build;h=d426ea60bc772095e4efa68c93d1a1d63047ee8d;hb=HEAD Sep 05 15:59:05 naeg: haha, decent answer :) Sep 05 15:59:21 yeah, it's too much to list here ;) Sep 05 16:02:06 PaulFertser: just to be sure: nothing can happen to my device if i mkfs.ubifs on mtdblock6 and then mkfs.jffs2 on mtdblock6, so everyhing is normal again? Sep 05 16:02:24 yes Sep 05 16:03:02 about unknownfs, dont forget rootfstype=ubifs kernel option Sep 05 16:05:11 max_posedon1: you missed some things ;) i recompiled qi after changing that, it didn't work. so we try to mount the NAND as ubifs when booting from SD Sep 05 16:06:06 max_posedon1: you missed some things ;) we used reompiled qi which this option->didn't work. now we try to mount NAND as ubifs when booting from SD Sep 05 16:06:34 naeg: you'll be able to recover by flashing anything you want there. Sep 05 16:08:09 PaulFertser: damn, still unknown fs type... Sep 05 16:08:34 may i have to ubinize mtdblock6? Sep 05 16:09:49 naeg: nah, i doubt that... Sep 05 16:09:59 naeg: mount -t ubifs /dev/mtdblock6 /mnt Sep 05 16:10:07 naeg: what gives? unknown fs type? Sep 05 16:10:17 naeg: grep ubifs /proc/filesystems ? Sep 05 16:11:22 PaulFertser: mounting is like this: mount -t ubifs -o no_chk_data_crc ubi0:/dev/mtdblock6 /mnt/NAND/ Sep 05 16:11:35 PaulFertser: grep ubifs /proc/filesystems -> nodev ubifs Sep 05 16:12:21 naeg: does dmesg have anything interesting? Sep 05 16:12:22 if i do it as you said i get: wrong fs type, bad option,...i think you know that Sep 05 16:12:43 PaulFertser: just "[ 496.560000] UBIFS error (pid 1102): ubifs_get_sb: cannot open "/dev/mtdblock6", error -22" Sep 05 16:12:57 * SpeedEvil loves numeric errors. Sep 05 16:12:58 naeg: aha, interesting Sep 05 16:13:26 However - finding where that line is defined is not too hard Sep 05 16:13:40 so PaulFertser any idea? ;) i can't think of anything :P Sep 05 16:15:03 naeg: i do have plenty of those, just wait Sep 05 16:16:02 the only thing i could do now is ubinize, but as you said, i doubt it works Sep 05 16:17:38 naeg: * Alternative '!' separator may be used instead of ':' (because some shells Sep 05 16:17:42 * like busybox may interpret ':' as an NFS host name separator). This function Sep 05 16:17:45 * returns ubi volume object in case of success and a negative error code in Sep 05 16:17:47 * case of failure. Sep 05 16:17:54 Probably unrelated but FYI Sep 05 16:19:11 we don't use busybox, and is this meaned at mount? ...ubi0!/dev/... ? then it doesn't work Sep 05 16:19:30 naeg: probably you want to escape ! to prevent bash from intepreting it. Sep 05 16:19:57 PaulFertser: unknown fs type Sep 05 16:20:45 i'll take a look at all this tools... Sep 05 16:21:45 ubinfo: "Count of UBI devices: 0" Sep 05 16:21:55 oh, forgot that Sep 05 16:24:58 naeg: http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_mount_ubifs Sep 05 16:25:02 naeg: obvious, heh? Sep 05 16:25:57 PaulFertser: what do you mean? Sep 05 16:26:21 naeg: that those instructions show that you try to mount it the wrong way. Sep 05 16:26:41 naeg: and that instructions are obviously the first to read for everybody who tries to use ubifs ;) Sep 05 16:26:44 "...not MTD devices..." :-D Sep 05 16:27:23 PaulFertser: well, here it wasn't written: http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/ubifs.html#L_mountopts Sep 05 16:28:20 naeg: and yes, you need to "ubinize" your rootfs image Sep 05 16:30:37 so i have to ubiattach? Sep 05 16:31:05 but ubiattach just takes mtd devices numbers as paramater, no mtdblock Sep 05 16:33:17 naeg: so? Sep 05 16:33:21 naeg: tell it to use 6 Sep 05 16:33:49 does not work PaulFertser Sep 05 16:33:54 ubiattach: error!: cannot attach mtd6 Sep 05 16:33:56 error 22 (Invalid argument) Sep 05 16:35:09 naeg: do you already have something there on flash? Sep 05 16:35:44 PaulFertser: i flashed the ubi images, but i did mkfs.ubifs on mtdblock6 Sep 05 16:36:15 naeg: ah, i guess that was wrong Sep 05 16:36:27 naeg: try flasherase_all /dev/mtd6 Sep 05 16:36:33 naeg: and then ubiattach should work Sep 05 16:36:46 damn, didn't package flasherase_all -.- Sep 05 16:37:58 naeg: then just flash there ubinized image Sep 05 16:38:20 or scp flash_eraseall ;) a bit faster Sep 05 16:38:39 naeg: probably you have ubiformat? Sep 05 16:38:44 yes Sep 05 16:39:01 flasherase_all working Sep 05 16:39:23 PaulFertser: he skipps some bad block Sep 05 16:39:31 naeg: bad blocks happen Sep 05 16:39:39 http://pastebin.com/m2a197c9b Sep 05 16:39:41 ah ok Sep 05 16:40:06 ok, this time: Sep 05 16:40:08 ubiattach: error!: cannot attach mtd6 Sep 05 16:40:10 error 5 (Input/output error) Sep 05 16:40:50 naeg: hm... try ubiformat Sep 05 16:51:45 <_naeg> PaulFertser: git my msg? shitty wifi driver -.- Sep 05 16:59:18 nab: nah Sep 05 17:00:54 <_naeg> PaulFertser: did you mean me? Sep 05 17:01:09 _naeg: heh, yes :) didn't get your message Sep 05 17:01:14 * SpeedEvil sighs at datasheets. Sep 05 17:01:16 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993 Sep 05 17:01:27 <_naeg> PaulFertser: ubiformat: warning!: VID header and data offsets on flash are 512 and 2048, which is different to requested offsets 2048 and 4096 Sep 05 17:01:29 <_naeg> ubiformat: use new offsets 2048 and 4096? (yes/no) Sep 05 17:03:29 nab: yes Sep 05 17:03:48 <_naeg> ./nick nab ;) Sep 05 17:04:20 _naeg: /nick naeg, remove the underbar Sep 05 17:04:31 <_naeg> PaulFertser: ok, now we are back at invalid argument Sep 05 17:04:32 ;) Sep 05 17:04:41 <_naeg> can't, #archlinux is not letting me do this Sep 05 17:04:44 _naeg: oh-oh, doesn't come easy Sep 05 17:05:05 naeg: starting nick witch hard to type special char isn't polite ;-) you'll have to live with pseudonym nab Sep 05 17:05:32 <_naeg> DocScrutinizer: well if nab can live with that i can too Sep 05 17:05:35 heh, paul been faster once more :-) Sep 05 17:06:24 <_naeg> :) as i said, #archlinux is not letting me, and i am new to weechat, dunno how to close one channel Sep 05 17:06:53 <_naeg> PaulFertser: damn, i have to leave now Sep 05 17:07:14 <_naeg> PaulFertser: i will be here again tomorrow, more struggling around with you together against ubifs ;) Sep 05 17:07:21 /exec -m _naeg yes Sep 05 17:07:30 ^will fix everything Sep 05 17:07:56 ndnihil: Ynknown command _naeg Sep 05 17:08:06 s/Y/U/ Sep 05 17:08:06 SeligArkin meant: ndnihil: Unknown command _naeg Sep 05 17:08:12 you dont have -m? Sep 05 17:08:26 silly client Sep 05 17:08:42 <_naeg> cu PaulFertser Sep 05 17:08:43 how about /exec -o yes? Sep 05 17:08:44 <_naeg> cu all Sep 05 17:08:45 :) Sep 05 17:08:48 _naeg: best of luck Sep 05 17:11:25 ndnihil: yes cmd not found?? Sep 05 17:11:59 wth are you people running? Sep 05 17:12:11 pretty much any unix'ish platform should have yes Sep 05 17:12:33 aah, unix cmd Sep 05 17:12:42 linux has it too Sep 05 17:12:53 for sure that's _usually_ there Sep 05 17:13:17 NAME Sep 05 17:13:17 yes - output a string repeatedly until killed Sep 05 17:13:19 :) Sep 05 17:13:28 yayayah Sep 05 17:14:06 it was always fun to mess with noobs Sep 05 17:14:44 and the exec -m should message whatever nick is specified Sep 05 17:16:00 ndnihil: I just missed to change domains from irc to cmdline Sep 05 17:16:49 so freenode for sure does not know /yes Sep 05 17:25:31 Hmm, thats bad, I can see the black line as the screen updates on my moko Sep 05 17:26:11 err, SeligArkin ? which black line? Sep 05 17:26:49 You remember when you point a video camera at a TV? and you see the blaxck lines going down as the TV updates? I can see that with the naked eye on my moko Sep 05 17:27:08 doing what? Sep 05 17:27:34 the screen saver Sep 05 17:28:05 whatever that might be ;-P screensaver - ouch. Sep 05 17:29:09 anyway it's because that app has no knowledge of actual lcm refresh. we got no h/v-sync IRQ (usually) Sep 05 17:29:38 It only seems to happen after the moko is left without input for awhile Sep 05 17:30:43 hmm, maybe the cpu freq is "governed" down then? I'm not very much into these kernel things Sep 05 17:31:02 hi Sep 05 17:31:28 anyway screensaver is *strongly* deprecated, as it eats power for nothing Sep 05 17:32:05 not only on FR, but rather on each new PC Sep 05 17:32:42 the only valid screensaver is screen-dimming/blanking Sep 05 17:35:05 I see Sep 05 17:46:44 even static pictures might be ok. But for sure not movie-alike "screensavers" Sep 05 17:48:25 but but but, where else am i supposed to read the matrix? Sep 05 17:49:08 i bet you don't even see the code anymore Sep 05 18:02:01 i guess now we are doing a rolling release system instead of an actual dated release? Sep 05 18:18:14 numbers at the factory Sep 05 18:18:18 hmmmm Sep 05 18:19:09 so now would be a good time for the "core" guys to talk to the "factory" people in china Sep 05 18:20:10 an see if theres a chance to build an "upgraded motherboard for the gta-02 with all the advances made Sep 05 18:20:39 with the bells an whistles Sep 05 18:21:26 i dont think we need another stab at a dev board you guys had those already Sep 05 18:21:49 its time to step up to the plate dont ya think? Sep 05 18:35:07 sa Sep 05 18:35:17 Slaxxe: well - ... Sep 05 18:35:47 slaxxer: Fundamentally - you'd need at least 50-100k funding to do that Sep 05 18:36:15 where do i find the circuit diagram for GTA02 Sep 05 18:36:16 slaxxer: gta02-core would essentially be a new build cycle Sep 05 18:36:46 you'd need "funding" and "people" and "stuff" Sep 05 18:37:04 slaxxer: The agreements that the factory holds to source stuff may not be transferrable to another project. Sep 05 18:37:29 slaxxer: and fundamentally you're likely to need several - say another 5 - boards to get it working properly. Sep 05 18:38:06 slaxxer: Even building only 3 of each - that's of the order of $5k or so. Sep 05 18:38:33 most likely any new revision would be major chipset changes, not iterative improvements, when you might get away with only a few revisions. Sep 05 18:38:34 slaxxer: then you need someone to stump up for a run of at least 1K in order to get the prices sane. Sep 05 18:38:42 yes - if you're lucky. Sep 05 18:39:13 many MKII projects have died because of exactly these issues. Sep 05 18:39:15 And that 1K run might cost you 100-200k for the bits Sep 05 18:40:16 And at that time - say 6 months time - the N900 has just dropped in price from $690 to $490 - and is becoming available through some carriers at $100 down and a contract Sep 05 18:40:27 SpeedEvil so real world Sep 05 18:41:15 Or someone in china has started putting maemo5 on their 'iplone' that they're already shipping Sep 05 18:41:21 SpeedEvil: is there anything that is a better, mass-produced, choice to run OM on? Sep 05 18:41:30 The N900. Sep 05 18:41:33 Of course... Sep 05 18:41:39 anything cheaper? ;-) Sep 05 18:41:50 Not as far as I'm aware. Sep 05 18:41:53 G1? Sep 05 18:42:05 which already has a pr0t of sorts Sep 05 18:42:08 I haven't really been looking closely. Sep 05 18:42:21 that's < $200 Sep 05 18:42:34 I don't think so - that's the contract price Sep 05 18:42:41 the real price is quite a bit higher I think Sep 05 18:42:48 I mean the ebay price Sep 05 18:42:56 that would be second hand of course Sep 05 18:43:55 The price in the UK for a new G1 is some 400 quid - that's only a little less than teh 499 of the N900 Sep 05 18:43:56 but like you say, in 6 months there could be any amount of Linux-friendly hardware. Sep 05 18:44:03 UK so rip off Sep 05 18:44:10 WEll - not really Sep 05 18:44:21 It's $699 in the US - which is 483 quid or so Sep 05 18:44:45 699 + tax, 483 + VAT? Sep 05 18:45:26 anyway, I'm sure as hell not spending either amount on a phone Sep 05 18:46:12 Chocky: yes Sep 05 18:47:28 What I really object to is the mobile networks. For 15 quid a month and an 18 month contract - I get a decent calls + internet + SMS package. However - this includes a maybe 100 quid phone. Sep 05 18:47:29 * Chocky sees many G1s on Craigslist for $130ish. Sep 05 18:47:59 I can't get the same price with my own phone. Sep 05 18:48:34 Yeah. Sep 05 18:48:46 * Chocky is just about to expire a year's worth of PAYG with T-Mobile. I used maybe 150 mins of 1000 ($100) Sep 05 18:49:18 At least the PAYG market in the UK isn't too broken. Sep 05 18:49:22 I used Orange PAYG in the UK 4 years ago. That was about a fiver a month. Sep 05 18:49:29 eggzactly. Sep 05 18:49:56 Of course, I could have bought only $20 worth with T-Mobile, but I was expecting to use a lot more. Sep 05 18:50:07 But comparing Sep 05 18:50:18 Also - look at http://www.three.co.uk/ Sep 05 18:50:28 interesting offer in huge print on the frontpage Sep 05 18:50:33 UK plans by comparison are better and cheaper in general, however. Sep 05 18:52:00 I think I had had a 17 GBP/month plan before PAYG. a few hundred minutes or something. And that was > 5 years ago. Comparible plan here is at least $40 once you include taxes and stuff. Sep 05 18:52:43 There is the argument that the US spends lots more to rll the network out to remote locations. Sep 05 18:53:02 I don't know how much a close analysis of the figures would damage that argument. Sep 05 18:53:22 there is that. But I'm dubious. Sep 05 18:54:45 maybe a comparison with Germany, which is much larger than the UK would be better. Sep 05 18:55:03 Germany is a lot more dense than the US IIRC Sep 05 18:55:24 * Chocky wikipedias it Sep 05 18:55:50 Around an eight Sep 05 18:56:36 right. UK is pretty similar to Germany on those terms Sep 05 18:56:39 oh well. Sep 05 18:56:57 And the US charging model for calls is a bit odd - compared to the UK one. Sep 05 18:57:04 it sucks Sep 05 18:57:15 what is the rate for SMS in the UK these days? Sep 05 18:57:19 UK - phones are their own 'area code' Sep 05 18:57:47 I'm not sure many people pay for them rather than pick an appropriate bundle. Sep 05 18:58:26 yes; however the plans here tend not to include them - you have to pick an extra SMS plan Sep 05 18:58:42 so you can calculate based upon that rate. Sep 05 18:59:01 pay-as-you-go - top up by 10 quid = 300 free texts - say Sep 05 18:59:28 (600 if you topup online) Sep 05 18:59:34 and 10p/text thereafter. Sep 05 18:59:57 this is the first pay-as-you-go thing I looked at Sep 05 18:59:58 10p for something which is part of the traffic anyway. blah. Sep 05 19:00:22 yeah Sep 05 19:00:25 I know there's some infrastruture overhead. but still Sep 05 19:00:35 of course, it's because they can. Sep 05 19:00:38 anyway, gotta go Sep 05 19:00:54 wave Sep 05 19:19:30 openmoko: 03rehar * r5605 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (STATUS ecn0018.txt): Sep 05 19:19:30 openmoko: - canceled ECN0018 "Add beads/filters to audio signals leaving/entering can" Sep 05 19:19:30 openmoko: - moved ECN0036 "Removal of decoupling capacitor C3020" to Execute Sep 05 19:19:30 openmoko: - moved ECN0037 "Route ROUT1/LOUT1 back to LINE1/LINE2 input" to Execute Sep 05 19:23:22 does ceramic capacitor also have positive and ground Sep 05 19:23:48 no Sep 05 19:31:04 openmoko: 03rehar * r5606 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (audio.sch docs/ecn/ecn0036.txt): implemented ECN0036 Sep 05 19:44:33 UberNeo: however they may have assymetric electrode arrangement and one be more prone to picking up EMI than the ohter Sep 05 19:45:01 stupid question time.... how do you exit from FR root cleanly and unmount/detach the FR from your PC safely? Sep 05 19:45:44 you mean from a ssh session? Sep 05 19:45:52 so it means we cannot distinguish ..between + and - in ceramin cap Sep 05 19:45:53 SpeedEvil, yes Sep 05 19:46:01 exit Sep 05 19:46:03 then unplug Sep 05 19:46:18 unplugging may leave a process around till it times out in a few mins Sep 05 19:46:25 UberNeo: there is no + and - in a ceramic cap Sep 05 19:46:48 SpeedEvil, exit just gives me "You have stopped jobs." Sep 05 19:46:57 so we can attach anyone with the ground Sep 05 19:47:22 LiL_mr-t1: exit again - or fg Sep 05 19:47:24 : again type exit Sep 05 19:47:28 UberNeo: what's the question? Sep 05 19:47:56 SpeedEvil, UberNeo, thanks Sep 05 19:48:34 my ques is ..that we can attach any side of ceramic cap to ground Sep 05 19:48:46 yes Sep 05 19:48:55 ok Sep 05 19:49:14 actually i was looking for #1024 fix Sep 05 19:49:21 One way round may pick up more EMI than the other way round - if the construction of the cap is such that one side has the 'ground' electrode round it. Sep 05 19:49:33 that GSM buzz? Sep 05 19:49:35 or deep sleep Sep 05 19:49:39 no Deep Sleep Sep 05 19:49:43 in that case it doesn' tmatter Sep 05 19:50:15 it requires a 10uf cap in parallel to C1009 10uF cap Sep 05 19:54:10 * quatrox must figure out how to combine an HTC and a neo Sep 05 19:56:03 SpeedEvil : have u done the #1024 fix Sep 05 19:56:40 No. Sep 05 19:56:43 quatrox: duct tape Sep 05 19:57:15 openmoko: 03rehar * r5607 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (audio.sch docs/ecn/ecn0037.txt): implemented ECN0037 Sep 05 19:57:18 SpeedEvil: I already thought of heat and force.... hmmm... duct tape was a good idea Sep 05 19:59:27 quatrox: If you can use the force, you should. Sep 05 19:59:43 the display on the HTC is broken Sep 05 19:59:44 Do not however turn to the dark side of the force. Sep 05 19:59:58 hmm Sep 05 20:00:38 duct tape is like force: a dark and a light side - you mean I should use the light side? Sep 05 20:01:37 hmm... its more fun to solder:D Sep 05 20:09:51 DocScrutinizer: is there some standard pinout on FP cables from displays? Sep 05 20:12:27 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rc3bef78a590e 10framework/framework/subsystems/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git@git.freesmartphone.org:framework into dos/opimd-tracking Sep 05 20:28:14 quatrox: no Sep 05 20:29:07 Well - there are 'standard' data formats - for example 3v 18/24 bit databus, and syncs Sep 05 20:29:22 but they are not in any specific order or pinout or ... Sep 05 20:31:44 SpeedEvil: thanks... then I need to compare data sheets Sep 05 20:32:06 yeah - if you can obtain them. Sep 05 20:33:15 You need to find a screen which has compatible voltage levels - not generally too hard - same resolution - same refresh rate - same 'modeline' (or a compatible or reprogrammable one) Sep 05 20:35:31 hmm Sep 05 20:35:52 the neo screen is not pin compatible Sep 05 20:37:04 hi Sep 05 20:37:06 slt Sep 05 20:37:21 http://www.clodogame.fr/change_please/5493519/ Sep 05 20:37:30 http://www.clodogame.fr/change_please/5493519/ Sep 05 20:38:37 clododechezeric сука Sep 05 20:39:57 pin compatible - almost never. Sep 05 20:40:09 you essentially always need to make up your own little shim cable Sep 05 20:40:54 I am not _that_ good with soldering Sep 05 20:41:44 but practice creates masters... so I should try Sep 05 20:42:59 quatrox: Practice makes perfect, but no one is perfect, so why practice? ;) Sep 05 20:44:08 so why practise, I mean. Sep 05 20:44:26 brolin: good point:D Sep 05 20:44:55 Does practising baiting create master baiters? ;) Sep 05 20:46:39 Nobody is perfect. I am a nobody. Therefore, I am perfect. ;) Sep 05 20:46:48 brolin: practicing living will make you master it (and live forever) Sep 05 20:48:04 No One Lives Forever (NOLF) because time kills everyone without mercy. Sep 05 20:49:16 at least time kills my spare time Sep 05 20:51:00 Anyway, is there a distro that is less unusable than SHR, or is there a less unusable SHR image I can try? I moved my SIM back to my Nokia phone because I could not even add contacts nor rename contacts with SHR. (fail) Sep 05 20:52:47 brolin: shr-u works well for me Sep 05 20:53:01 SHR is far less unusable than Om2009, though. Om2009 was the first distro I tried (and failed) to use on my FR. Sep 05 20:54:37 brolin: currently SHR has opimd Sep 05 20:54:42 brolin: and opimd-utils Sep 05 20:54:48 brolin: and opimd-cli Sep 05 20:54:56 brolin: it's supposed to be enough Sep 05 20:55:21 brolin: you can install also c_c's launcher, it supports opimd, contacts and smses too. And c_c is uber-fast in fixing bugs. Sep 05 20:55:51 brolin: alternatively, you can help to extend fso.el to work with opimd, it shouldn't be that hard and it'll be fun at the same time. Sep 05 20:57:11 * brolin looks up opimd. Sep 05 21:03:34 In russia elections look more like a day of Laughter: jokes on the billboards, clowns listed in the ballot papers and pranks on TV. Sep 05 21:04:29 http://www.miss-gb.co.uk/byelectionitem.asp?id=12 Sep 05 21:07:21 SpeedEvil: there were presidental elections in russia 8 years ago where one of the participants was actually a bodyguard (very stupid) of our main political clown/whore. Sep 05 21:07:42 * brolin currently cannot even ssh to his FR to upgrade to the full SHR. dropbear is running. The FR's IP address and default gateway are correct. The RNDIS connection on my PC has the correct IP address. Sep 05 21:08:05 PaulFertser: who is now president? :) Sep 05 21:08:32 Russian politics - as seen from the outside - looks rather broken. Sep 05 21:08:45 for mother russia Sep 05 21:09:04 the russians helped us in 1973 war Sep 05 21:09:06 ;-) Sep 05 21:09:13 SpeedEvil: putin is still believed to have all the power currently. Sep 05 21:09:20 yom kippour war Sep 05 21:09:33 Hi! Is it possible to install debian on FR? Sep 05 21:09:45 SpeedEvil: (russian politics) there's no such thing Sep 05 21:09:48 zuka: yes Sep 05 21:10:23 PaulFertser: yes - it seems slightly better than north korea electionwise. Which isn't perhaps the best praise. Sep 05 21:11:16 We in the UK have free and fair elections! Sep 05 21:11:23 PaulFertser: have you tried it recently? The installer.sh complains about unmet dependencies for zhone. Where can I get help? Sep 05 21:11:24 SpeedEvil: Freedom House regularly issues a listing with all the countries and corresponding "degree of freedom", so we're perfectly aware of our place. Sep 05 21:11:27 Of two parties that have relatively little space between them. Sep 05 21:11:36 SpeedEvil: there is a huge difference between russia and north korea Sep 05 21:11:42 quatrox: yes - I know. Sep 05 21:11:49 zuka: i'm using debian since november, i installed it manually approximately following install.sh Sep 05 21:11:52 remember: russia has cheap vodka!!! Sep 05 21:12:20 quatrox: if i wanted vodka it'd be an advantage :-/ Sep 05 21:12:21 My next vote shall be for the UK pirate party. Sep 05 21:12:31 YAY Sep 05 21:12:57 SpeedEvil: aren't you talking bout US? Sep 05 21:13:11 no - UK Sep 05 21:13:23 SpeedEvil: looks like politics is a universal way to screw up "the people". Just some countries are more successful in that. Sep 05 21:13:46 SpeedEvil: heh, pirates rule Sep 05 21:13:52 ARRR Sep 05 21:13:55 The nation state is comparatively recent. Sep 05 21:14:00 If they didn't call themselves pirates :S Sep 05 21:14:11 * brolin forgot to install his SIM in his FR before booting his FR again. (fail) Sep 05 21:14:25 brolin: not exactly, i hot-swapped sim many times Sep 05 21:14:41 PaulFertser: Mmmmkay I see. But don't have such skill to do it on my own. I'm having this problem ---> http://www.mail-archive.com/smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org/msg01415.html. Maybe someone else did too? Sep 05 21:15:21 zuka: why not install debian the manual way... It didn't require any skill from me, i just used install.sh as a reference... And i've never used debootstrap etc before Sep 05 21:15:30 PaulFertser: as you need to power down gsm for removing bat anyway, that hotswap seems perfectly feasible Sep 05 21:15:53 DocScrutinizer: yes. For me shutting down zhone is enough Sep 05 21:17:35 * DocScrutinizer wonders how long N810 will take until 4th unsolicited reboot today, now that he has disabled SIP client Sep 05 21:18:34 PaulFertser: Yeah you're right. Manual way is always better, but it requires lots of work, like gentoo no? Sep 05 21:18:46 Actually, I had my inactive Rogers SIM installed in my FR because I swapped my active Speak Out Wireless SIM and my inactive Rogers SIM between my FR and my Nokia. My Nokia is unusable without a SIM installed. (fail) Sep 05 21:19:00 Like compiling/configuring stuff. I just don't have enough stamina for it now Sep 05 21:20:13 zuka: no Sep 05 21:20:18 zuka: it required me like an hour Sep 05 21:20:50 Or probably two hours because i'm slow Sep 05 21:22:35 me too I'm on sh*tty broadband connection, so... Sep 05 21:22:46 thanks, I'll try Sep 05 21:24:11 Zeroedout: Are you in BC? Sep 05 21:24:41 * DocScrutinizer wonders if there's such a thing like subsidized N900 for registered developers. As developers newsletter says it's 500€ while webshop wants 600€ Sep 05 21:25:17 DocScrutinizer: no developer program for N900 this time? I remember there were some free or semi-free devices for registered devs earlier. Sep 05 21:25:47 Why does SHR say GSM is unavailable because no SIM card is installed when I boot my FR with my inactive Rogers SIM installed? Because SHR treats an inactive SIM the same as an absent SIM? Sep 05 21:25:52 hmm, I had to find the place where to find out about that Sep 05 21:26:01 openmoko: 03daveb * r5608 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (gta02-core.sch io.sch modem.sch sd-sim.sch): Modem references in range 81xx, various modem changes. Sep 05 21:26:36 openmoko: 03werner * r5609 10/trunk/gta02-core/modules/stdpass.fpd: Sep 05 21:26:36 openmoko: - modules/stdpass.fpd: changed silk with from 2 mil to 5 mil, like Sep 05 21:26:36 openmoko: everywhere else Sep 05 21:26:36 openmoko: - modules/stdpass.fpd: silk is now referenced at the line's center Sep 05 21:26:36 openmoko: - modules/stdpass.fpd: increased clearance from 4 mil to 5 mil to make up for Sep 05 21:26:39 openmoko: reduced area due to change in silk reference Sep 05 21:27:10 eeew, that reminds me to check these #@&*@@* modem schematics Sep 05 21:27:45 2G, wtf!? Sep 05 21:28:44 My shelf on SHR still says no service after installing my active Speak Out Wireless SIM. Sep 05 21:28:45 DocScrutinizer: what modem schematics? Sep 05 21:28:54 openmoko: 03daveb * r5610 10/trunk/gta02-core/STATUS: Status update Sep 05 21:29:03 [23:26] openmoko: daveb * r5608 /trunk/gta02-core/ (gta02-core.sch io.sch modem.sch sd-sim.sch): Modem references in range 81xx, various modem changes. Sep 05 21:29:21 DocScrutinizer: ah gta02-core has this funny gsm chip that runs python programs Sep 05 21:29:44 yeah prolly. wtf, crap! Sep 05 21:29:57 DocScrutinizer: no really, that's what the specs say Sep 05 21:30:23 look it up if you don't believe me :) Sep 05 21:30:29 I *believe* your saying, it's just unbelievable nevertheless Sep 05 21:30:34 python interpreters are not uncommon Sep 05 21:30:50 but in a gsm chip Sep 05 21:31:06 is it the same codebase as normal python or a different implementation? Sep 05 21:31:13 I'd prefer a 3G interpreter rather Sep 05 21:31:23 (= does it support the resent integer overflow that was found from python?) Sep 05 21:31:33 lindi-: it'll be a little custom interpreter I'd imagine Sep 05 21:31:33 s/resent/recent/ Sep 05 21:32:05 SpeedEvil: how can they advertise it with python logo and all then? Sep 05 21:33:38 fsck, these critters aren't designed for modem use, they are supposed to build a whole prepaid-sim-recharger machine with user interface and cashier Sep 05 21:35:08 or buy the one with integrated gps, hook up a bat, and stick it under the car you want to track Sep 05 21:35:08 DocScrutinizer: yep :) Sep 05 21:35:49 openmoko: 03daveb * r5611 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (STATUS ecn0039.txt): Rask's SPI 0R ecn - Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Sep 05 21:36:21 for core they are too loaded, too expensive, too FAT, and too slow for being a incentive Sep 05 21:37:49 DocScrutinizer: still would be cool to have an auxiliary processor that can process gsm traffic while the main system is asleep Sep 05 21:38:10 DocScrutinizer: that would make it possible to wake the phone only when it enters some specific gsm cell for example Sep 05 21:38:26 well, even calypso has a complete AP and key-matrix, lcd-if, and an own proprietary application development environment Sep 05 21:38:44 DocScrutinizer: yep but we just don't have access to that environment Sep 05 21:39:08 DocScrutinizer: calypso => AVR microcontroller => ARM would be funny idea :) Sep 05 21:39:15 i guess we just miss the docs Sep 05 21:39:45 DocScrutinizer source docs Sep 05 21:39:54 you;ve got the chip docs afterall Sep 05 21:39:58 see wikileaks Sep 05 21:40:04 SpeedEvil: we can't really use those Sep 05 21:40:09 I know - Sep 05 21:40:30 lindi-: that's actually a nice idea (process gsm) Sep 05 21:41:12 SpeedEvil: *I* know *I* have the docs ;-) Sep 05 21:42:13 fsckng 20..30MB of them Sep 05 21:42:22 Just the user-mode programming - or is htere any GSM codec docs? Sep 05 21:43:03 no docs about gsm-stack src Sep 05 21:43:19 that's not even developer relevant info Sep 05 21:43:43 yeah - I know - idly wondering Sep 05 21:44:34 * SpeedEvil sits and twiddles more pppd options at random. Sep 05 21:45:24 SpeedEvil: gooo, gooo! maybe we finally find a way to keep gprs up and running, even beyond 24h barrier Sep 05 21:45:32 or during roaming Sep 05 21:45:50 or even stop it from freezing frameworkd :-S Sep 05 21:46:22 alas - no - I'm trying to get my 3G modem 'with generous 150MB allowance' to work Sep 05 21:46:37 bah Sep 05 21:46:47 ueberlaeufer Sep 05 21:49:59 Hmm. I can get it to maintain a connection with me trying to work out DNS, and it naking. Sep 05 21:50:38 but that's not really very useful Sep 05 21:52:22 err, dhcp? Sep 05 21:53:08 it's saying 'ms-dns' something in the config requests - I have no idea why Sep 05 21:53:14 btw, why not use arbitrary dns? Sep 05 21:53:29 I'm unsure why it's trying to find DNS - I don't care Sep 05 21:54:28 * brolin actually managed to to ssh to SHR on his FR. I had to ping my FR first, then ssh, then delete the old host key from ~/.ssh/known_hosts , then ssh again, ... maybe ping again before I could ssh. Sep 05 21:55:40 ping is nonsense I'd say. for ssh-key look people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/neo-ssh Sep 05 21:57:17 never agin delete ssh-key from known-hosts Sep 05 22:00:57 DocScrutinizer: I am using Cygwin on Windows Vista, not Linux. I could not communicate with my FR at all with my old PC running Ubuntu 8.04 Desktop i386. Sep 05 22:01:46 DocScrutinizer: Why does the FR's public host key keep changing? Sep 05 22:01:46 hmm Sep 05 22:02:22 usually it doesn't. just each new installation creates a new unique key afaik Sep 05 22:03:32 why not putty on windoof generic, rather than cygwin? Sep 05 22:04:26 DocScrutinizer: OK, that makes sense. The FR's public host key probably changed because this is the first time I have managed to ssh to SHR. Sep 05 22:05:41 DocScrutinizer: Why do I need PuTTY if I am comfortable using Cygwin? :P Sep 05 22:06:10 ok, ... so why windows at all then? Sep 05 22:08:12 DocScrutinizer: Because I want things to work without endless hassles? I want to spend more time using my PC than solving software configuration problems. Sep 05 22:10:03 I still use Ubuntu at work and on my old PC at home, but my new PC at home runs only Windows Vista. Sep 05 22:10:18 how "difficult" is it to convert a neo to a powersaving, log-when-moving blackbox gps? Sep 05 22:11:20 Kagee: it'll still consume around 90 mA constantly Sep 05 22:11:38 Kagee: the logging part does not consume much, tracking and being awake does Sep 05 22:11:43 I want things to work the way I think they should. So I couldn't ever get there in windoof. I don't like sw to "just work (80%, other 20% just fail)". I prefer making it work exactly to *my* needs and I'm willing to spend a little time configuring it, so I'll save that time easily later on using this individualized sw Sep 05 22:11:50 Kagee: You really need to stop stalking me.. :D :O Sep 05 22:11:52 :P Sep 05 22:12:37 SeligArkin: hmm, where did i stalk you from :-? Sep 05 22:12:52 Kagee: I was making a very lame joke. :P Sep 05 22:12:58 hi i'm trying to use tangogps on shr-unstable but i can't get the images displayed (it download the maps correctly but i can't see them) and it print out a lot of gtk-pixbuf or similar errors Sep 05 22:13:50 What is the lowest possible powerconsumtion where the phone still can reactivate on a predefined time? Sep 05 22:14:07 brolin: btw if it were for "just works" OS, I always would prefer MacOS Sep 05 22:14:27 Kagee: 3 mA if you have no gsm and you are in suspend Sep 05 22:14:43 Kagee: but you won't have gps fix Sep 05 22:15:16 Kagee: roundabout 50uA Sep 05 22:15:24 Kagee: What do you want to track? Sep 05 22:15:31 DocScrutinizer: logging or sleeping? Sep 05 22:16:05 i've never measured 50 uA Sep 05 22:16:20 Kagee: powered down, awaking on RTC alarm on a predefined time (not more than 1 year into the future) Sep 05 22:16:34 ah, powered down, but then you need to boot too :) Sep 05 22:16:38 SeligArkin: i want to place a neo and a battery in a blackbox on the roof of a car (with permission), and have it track where the car moved from 0700 though 2300 every day Sep 05 22:16:58 RTC alarm :-? Sep 05 22:17:00 lindi-: boot wasn't a preclusive detail Sep 05 22:17:07 Kagee: You could power it from the car. Sep 05 22:17:15 yeah, boot just will take a lot of time and thus power Sep 05 22:17:36 SeligArkin: that's a lot more work (wiring etc) than just tapping it to a roof Sep 05 22:17:43 also hard to move Sep 05 22:17:56 lindi-: that's not been the question either Sep 05 22:18:03 Kagee: how often do you charge it? Sep 05 22:18:58 Kagee: and how often do you want it to wake? Sep 05 22:19:16 lindi-: i was just planning to run it as long as an external batterypack lasts, and then recharge it Sep 05 22:19:29 wakeup at dawn, suspend at night Sep 05 22:19:37 Kagee: in sleep mode consumption still can be as low as 2..3mA Sep 05 22:19:50 Kagee: ok, so it needs to track constantly during day? Sep 05 22:20:26 Kagee: 1440 mAh per day then Sep 05 22:20:41 (16 h * 90mA) Sep 05 22:21:01 lindi-: it would only need to track every 5/10 min, and the log ofter if it has moved, and stop loggin when it has been stationary more than, say 15 minutes Sep 05 22:21:16 *log more often if it has moved Sep 05 22:21:40 Kagee: it's not so easy. if you stop gps it will take time to get a fix again Sep 05 22:21:59 lindi-: damn, no. even with gps full powered you can go to sleep for a minute or two, and will eat less than 90, no? Sep 05 22:22:33 DocScrutinizer: yep with some odd commands that I don't know :) Sep 05 22:23:00 ok, so it can only get the position every second (ca), not every 5 min ? Sep 05 22:23:21 Kagee: well you want to start reading the specs at this point :) Sep 05 22:23:54 ... for the gps chip ? Sep 05 22:23:57 Kagee: all sorts of odd "keep fix but don't track" modes Sep 05 22:24:00 Kagee: for the gps chip yes Sep 05 22:25:23 lindi-: how much is gps eating? in normal power-up full active mode? Sep 05 22:25:37 i don't remember this by heart sorry Sep 05 22:25:48 10-50 mA is my very wild guess :) Sep 05 22:26:36 so where is the need of strange commands when going to sleep while gps on? Sep 05 22:27:02 will result in 12..60mA then Sep 05 22:28:48 yep there was an email about it Sep 05 22:30:27 I read 84mA on a system with 8% backlite, all subsystems off Sep 05 22:30:32 atm Sep 05 22:31:33 even 77mA Sep 05 22:32:27 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware#AGPS << none of these links work :-S Sep 05 22:32:56 DocScrutinizer: 8% = 21 in sysfs? Sep 05 22:33:10 DocScrutinizer: I get 92 mA with that Sep 05 22:47:10 and the specs is in a *.chm that wont open... Sep 05 23:01:44 grrr, DSL-outage Sep 05 23:02:07 gps enabled with fix, it's 136mA Sep 05 23:02:14 so GPS takes ~60mA without any power saving measures (and shr-settings-position eating some cpu while displaying NMEA results) Sep 05 23:02:18 ok, let me close the settings display and see what's "idle" power consumption Sep 05 23:02:24 hmm, no change Sep 05 23:02:29 Kagee: if you are ok with a fix every 10min, you can power down gps and go to sleep, and set alarm time to wake after 10min. then power up gps, wait up to 180sec for a fix (usually <60sec), log that, and go to sleep again. This would reduce avrg power consumption to <20mA Sep 05 23:02:35 Kagee: or keep gps powered all the time, and get fix as often as you want. Avrg power consumption <70mA Sep 05 23:06:16 btw, ""[2009-09-06 00:33:10] DocScrutinizer: I get 92 mA with that"" was last I got. So if anybody talked to me meanwhile, please resend Sep 05 23:07:50 can i read the current power consumtion battery / usb from software? Sep 05 23:09:38 DocScrutinizer: they did not Sep 05 23:10:21 Kagee: see shr-settings-power Sep 05 23:10:54 Kagee: or http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/bq27k-detail Sep 05 23:11:55 Kagee: and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs Sep 05 23:24:48 i could in theory run the neo w/o an internal battery, right? Sep 05 23:26:05 yes, but afaik the gsm module would not be available then Sep 05 23:26:20 so the usefulness depends Sep 05 23:26:33 but the gps module is avalible? Sep 05 23:26:45 afaik Sep 05 23:26:50 Kagee: yes Sep 05 23:27:00 then that's no problem Sep 05 23:27:38 Kagee: also you can run neo with a PSU connected to battery terminals but to keep gsm usable you'll need to ensure very low resistance and stability. Sep 05 23:28:15 i wont need the gsm module for this project. Sep 05 23:29:05 Kagee: "i could in theory run the neo" <-- neo can be understood different ways, gta01==neo1973 and gta01 should never be tried to run without a battery. Sep 05 23:29:44 oh, there is that Sep 05 23:33:07 frerunner Sep 05 23:33:12 +e Sep 05 23:39:41 Kagee: for adding a huge bat I recommend voltage 3V6<=Vbat<=4V5 and connect to FR bat terminals Sep 05 23:53:28 DocScrutinizer: i can only find 3.3 and 5 volts voltage regulators .... Sep 05 23:53:55 I don't have the fr with me, what is the battery voltage? Sep 05 23:54:10 voltage regulator? is deprecated anyway Sep 05 23:54:27 nominal 3.7 Sep 05 23:55:48 Kagee: use 3 NiMH cells Sep 05 23:58:54 (1.5*3)*x ? Sep 06 00:00:05 e * 1V2 Sep 06 00:00:13 3 * Sep 06 00:01:25 don't use primary cells though Sep 06 00:02:47 but for NiMH * 3 even the specs of pcf506xx say it's ok and designed for this usecase Sep 06 00:03:04 what's a primary cell ? Sep 06 00:03:47 a carbon-zinc, or alkaline Sep 06 00:07:19 Kagee: you don't want to use any regulator. It's a waste of energy, and PMU *is* the regulator for the bat voltage Sep 06 00:09:45 Can I use a DBoard v3 + USB -> Ethernet adapter to connect my FR directly to my LAN? Sep 06 00:10:35 brolin: why use dboard?? Sep 06 00:11:14 I don't even think it will work with debubo Sep 06 00:11:50 brolin: just connect the usb-lan-adapter to FR usb in hostmode? Sep 06 00:14:28 brolin: you might want to use Y-cable to power FR and adapter Sep 06 00:16:24 am I offline again? Sep 06 00:16:31 ~botsnack Sep 06 00:16:31 no Sep 06 00:16:31 DocScrutinizer: aw, gee Sep 06 00:16:40 DocScrutinizer: How do I use the FR USB in Host mode? Sep 06 00:17:18 switch to host mode in SHR-settings-connectivity Sep 06 00:18:12 use /sys/bla/foo/* in other distris Sep 06 00:20:49 DocScrutinizer: Now what? Connect the FR to a USB hub and connect the USB -> Ethernet adapter to the USB hub? Sep 06 00:21:20 if you think you need a hub, then yes Sep 06 00:22:05 How can I connect the USB -> Ethernet adapter without using a USB hub? Sep 06 00:24:32 with a miniUSB-m--USB-A-f adapther Sep 06 00:25:58 brolin: e.g like this http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/FR+UMTS.jpg Sep 06 00:26:43 I think the only USB cables I have are for connecting devices to hosts, e.g., connecting my FR to my PC. Sep 06 00:27:04 or that one http://www.conrad.de/goto.php?artikel=971535 Sep 06 00:27:42 When I read the FR had USB host before I received my FR, I expected the FR to have at least 1 USB host port. :P Sep 06 00:28:40 brolin: so with the cables you have, you won't succeed with a hub as well. You can't connect a host to a hubs downstream port Sep 06 00:28:55 USB host port = USB Type A connector, not (Mini) Type B connector. Sep 06 00:29:11 so what? Sep 06 00:29:39 btw you're wrong Sep 06 00:30:12 as mini-B is both, by definition Sep 06 00:30:45 though that definition is bsoleted by USB-OTG deprecating all mini-USB Sep 06 00:31:35 I meant I expected the FR to have at least 1 USB Type A connector, because I am used to using that type of connector on USB hosts. Sep 06 00:32:06 I should have written: When I read the FR had USB host before I received my FR, I expected the FR to have at least 1 USB Type A port. :P Sep 06 00:32:34 I did not know Type B was ever used for USB host. Sep 06 00:32:35 hmm, yes. would sure be cool. Alas we miss the real estate to place such connector anywhere in FR Sep 06 00:33:44 brolin: I think the FR has a mini USB AB Sep 06 00:33:54 so you can use a mini USB A Sep 06 00:34:35 there's much confusion about all that Sep 06 00:34:49 but actually I think it's a mini-B Sep 06 00:35:38 though the plugs are imprinted A or B, depending on ID shorted to GND or NC Sep 06 00:35:58 Does mini Type A even exist? I thought all Type A were the size used on PCs. Sep 06 00:37:07 Type A is the one used in cameras, IIRC Sep 06 00:37:19 sorry Sep 06 00:37:30 that is type b Sep 06 00:37:45 type a is almost the same Sep 06 00:38:56 All the digital still cameras I have seen use mini Type B, not full-size Type B. I do not know about digital video cameras because I have never had one. Sep 06 00:39:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_USB#Connector_types Sep 06 00:42:34 Incidentally, why does SHR use slider controls instead of more usable radio buttons or combo boxes? Sep 06 00:45:02 Radio buttons should be called mutex buttons because modern vehicle stereos use push buttons, not mutex buttons like in old vehicle radios. Sep 06 00:47:13 I love the term "mutex buttons" :-) Sep 06 00:47:31 * brolin cannot even remember the last time he has seen a real vehicle radio/stereo with mutex buttons. I am probably too young. :) Sep 06 00:51:41 Are all the mutex button vehicle radios AM-only? That is probably why I do not remember seeing any real mutex button vehicle radios. I cannot even think of anyone I know whose vehicle's radio is AM-only. Sep 06 00:53:41 no, there are also AM/FM mutex button car radios Sep 06 00:54:39 I remeber at least one Blaupunkt model Sep 06 02:16:22 ShellEvil: /nick $(cat /dev/random) ? ;-P Sep 06 02:17:14 * ShellEvil got somewhat frustrated at his 3g thingy. Sep 06 02:17:30 Which isn't working for no logical reason. Sep 06 02:23:57 DocScrutinizer: I never knew USB v3.0 had been released until today. Sep 06 02:25:49 brolin: well, there isn't anything usb3.0 except *cables* yet, so you didn't miss much Sep 06 02:33:23 And stupid cables. Sep 06 02:52:56 damnit Sep 06 02:53:06 does anoyone know how i might get mman into mingw? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 06 02:59:57 2009