**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 25 02:59:58 2009
Sep 25 05:05:51 <PaulFertser> noone: what exactly is your problem?
Sep 25 05:07:00 <PaulFertser> slaxxer: (qi) ?
Sep 25 05:08:21 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: i'd say u-boot for gta02 is actually deprecated because it's fork that's 2 years old.
Sep 25 05:09:01 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: someone should first port the latest u-boot to gta02, then claim it's a good alternative to Qi, not the other way round imho.
Sep 25 05:10:00 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: and at least Qi's code can be easily understood by anybody in a matter of hour. Unlike u-boot's. I think that's advantageous enough.
Sep 25 09:24:28 <panicking> PaulFertser, ok I sent the patch of the mmc but I don't understand where I can commit it
Sep 25 09:28:06 <PaulFertser> panicking: glamo mmc? Can you please explain what are the advantages comparing to larsc's?
Sep 25 09:28:59 <Fox_Muldr> hi
Sep 25 09:29:30 <PaulFertser> panicking: i don't know which branch is the most appropriate, sorry :-/
Sep 25 09:32:15 <panicking> Using the scatter list kmap of single page doesn't panic on memcpy
Sep 25 09:32:25 <panicking> because the start and the next
Sep 25 09:32:30 <panicking> map the page
Sep 25 09:32:36 <panicking> PaulFertser, is it ok
Sep 25 09:32:37 <panicking> ?
Sep 25 09:38:03 <PaulFertser> panicking: tbh, no idea
Sep 25 09:38:32 <panicking> BTW, having a tree can help the develop phase. 
Sep 25 09:38:40 <PaulFertser> panicking: _i_ know that
Sep 25 09:39:00 <PaulFertser> panicking: i hoped for larsc to implement his proposal right after .31 is out and use what he prepared.
Sep 25 09:39:10 <PaulFertser> panicking: and he's still going to do that, afaik
Sep 25 09:39:23 <PaulFertser> panicking: and yes, his proposal was about having decent trees.
Sep 25 09:39:45 <panicking> Ok, but if there is a tree to apply the pathces in the openmoko repository
Sep 25 09:39:49 <panicking> we can discuss on them
Sep 25 09:39:58 <panicking> and over new file
Sep 25 09:40:00 <PaulFertser> panicking: what do you want from me? I'm feeling uneasy about everything :-/
Sep 25 09:40:35 <PaulFertser> panicking: want me to push vanilla .31 to a separate branch at OM repo? 
Sep 25 09:41:11 <panicking> yes, and create a branch like openmoko-devel
Sep 25 09:41:22 <panicking> I can do that I think
Sep 25 09:41:29 <panicking> but I want to discuss before
Sep 25 09:41:56 <panicking> So larsc can send pathces above this branch
Sep 25 09:42:05 <panicking> and all the people can take a look, recompile
Sep 25 09:42:08 <panicking> and verify
Sep 25 09:43:18 <panicking> Basically I have a running tree
Sep 25 09:43:29 <panicking> 2.6.31
Sep 25 09:43:34 <panicking> booting
Sep 25 09:43:40 <PaulFertser> panicking: i think we should just push upstream master there named linus-master 
Sep 25 09:44:09 <PaulFertser> panicking: then branch from v2.6.31.1 (or whatever) tag to om-2.6.31 
Sep 25 09:44:34 <panicking> perfect
Sep 25 09:44:35 <PaulFertser> panicking: then branch from it and make at least glamo and pcf branches.
Sep 25 09:44:49 <PaulFertser> panicking: add respective patches there.
Sep 25 09:44:56 <panicking> Ok, agree
Sep 25 09:45:11 <PaulFertser> panicking: also a separate branch for various small fixes going upstream  
Sep 25 09:45:34 <PaulFertser> panicking: check booting, merge everything back to om-2.6.31.
Sep 25 09:45:59 <panicking> I will prefer openmoko-devel
Sep 25 09:46:02 <panicking> and  tag version
Sep 25 09:46:02 <PaulFertser> panicking: that's basically what larsc proposed. Since it was his idea, his thoughts and his work i hope he's going to do that himself.
Sep 25 09:46:03 <panicking> on it
Sep 25 09:46:07 <panicking> om-2.6.31
Sep 25 09:46:28 <panicking> So we can move version with the kernel
Sep 25 09:46:29 <panicking> update
Sep 25 09:46:39 <PaulFertser> panicking: because i think he wanted to do it himself, he never asked anybody to do that. 
Sep 25 09:47:17 <PaulFertser> That's the second reason i'm doing nothing waiting. (the first being that i'm partially demotivated lazy ass)
Sep 25 11:59:38 <RockyM> juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
Sep 25 13:14:10 <Cristianpark1> Hi guys, I'm playing with icons in desktop applications
Sep 25 13:14:59 <Cristianpark1> and I have a few questions: there is a way to define the order in wich the apps does appear on desktop?
Sep 25 13:15:18 <Cristianpark1> in the desktop the icons appear in alfabeticaly order
Sep 25 13:15:44 <Cristianpark1> how can I make them show in a specific order
Sep 25 14:26:58 <Cristianpark> anyone there?
Sep 25 14:27:21 <dns53> there is always someone there, the question is if they answer
Sep 25 14:31:23 <Cristianpark> dns53: Good point. Sometimes you're feeling alone here. And unfortunally the connection to internet in my job is pretty bad so I can't see if people answered my questions, so the IRC log is my best friend
Sep 25 14:32:27 <dns53> so what's up? got any question?
Sep 25 14:33:49 <Cristianpark> yeah! I'm playing with desktop icons on SHR
Sep 25 14:33:53 <PaulFertser> Cristianpark: you might want to consider running irssi in screen on some more reliable machine.
Sep 25 14:34:48 <Cristianpark> PaulFertser: Thanks for the advice, in my job there isn't such a thing like a reliable machine hahahaha
Sep 25 14:35:43 <Cristianpark> following with my question, I lost a few icons when change icon theme from SHR to OpenMoko in the appareance menu of SHR
Sep 25 14:37:23 <dns53> yes icons are tied to the theme and you loose about half of the icons if you change it
Sep 25 14:37:50 <Cristianpark> I'm seing /usr/share/icons/ and found two directories: SHR and openmoko-standard
Sep 25 14:38:41 <PaulFertser> Cristianpark: you can consider VPS or use your home PC as a reliable machine (as do i).
Sep 25 14:39:49 <dns53> Cristianpark you could try and merge them, copy the old theme to a directory then copy the new one and replace the theme you want with that copy
Sep 25 14:41:29 <Cristianpark> in SHR I found image files like shr-contacts.png which seems to be referenced by the shr-contacts.desktop file in /usr/share/applications in: Icon=shr-contacts
Sep 25 14:41:47 <Cristianpark> PaulFertser: I didn't know that, thanks
Sep 25 14:42:11 <Cristianpark> dns53: I doesn't understand exactly how to do that
Sep 25 14:43:17 <dns53> cp /usr/share/icons/oldtheme tmpdir    cp /usr/share/icons/newtheme tmpdir, cp tmpdir  /usr/share/icons/newtheme 
Sep 25 14:43:56 <dns53> so you will have the icons for the old theme where no theme exists
Sep 25 14:44:09 <dns53> where no icons in the new theme exists
Sep 25 14:47:54 <Cristianpark> so the folders inside /usr/share/icons represents each a theme?
Sep 25 14:48:51 <dns53> yes, it does some mapping of icon name to a file in that directory
Sep 25 14:50:18 <Cristianpark> dns53: I did what you say and have no effect so far
Sep 25 14:50:32 <Cristianpark> in /usr/share/icons/shr
Sep 25 14:51:01 <dns53> change theme between them or restart
Sep 25 14:51:18 <dns53> it probably caches them on starting illume
Sep 25 14:53:15 <Cristianpark> there is this structure for the image files 86x86/apps and in /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard is: openmoko-standard/128x128/apps by example
Sep 25 14:54:31 <Cristianpark> in /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard there are about 5 directories with different icons resolutions, how can I know what resolution am I using (In appearence menu doesn't appear the option for icon size)
Sep 25 14:55:19 <dns53> you might be right, you might need to add something to index.theme
Sep 25 14:56:00 <Cristianpark> dns53: I can figure from your answers that if the 128x128 icons are in use, I have to have the .png file for the missing icon  in that directory
Sep 25 14:56:18 <Cristianpark> dns53: where is that file (index.theme)?
Sep 25 14:56:50 <Cristianpark> forget it, I found it
Sep 25 14:57:18 <dns53> it's a freedesktop.org standard so it should be the same everywhere
Sep 25 14:57:30 <dns53> you can probably just copy a desktop theme to the phone
Sep 25 15:00:14 <Cristianpark> I doesn't found any usable information on that file, I'll upload a copy of the one I found on /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard
Sep 25 15:01:45 <Cristianpark> http://pastebin.com/d44f534f9
Sep 25 15:02:32 <Cristianpark> maybe in another configuration file of SHR where it says that "OpenMoko" is the Selected Theme Icon
Sep 25 15:03:32 <dns53> so i think the name of the icon in the .desktop file matches to a name in that file that will then load the appropriate image for that size
Sep 25 15:04:06 <Cristianpark> dns53: Yes, I agree with you
Sep 25 15:05:14 <Cristianpark> I think that the Icon section in .desktop file have to match with a image file in the appropiate icon size directory
Sep 25 15:05:55 <dns53> we probably have to merge the index.theme files
Sep 25 15:06:37 <Cristianpark> i.e: If 128x128 is "selected" (how to determine this?) you have to have a shr-contacts.png file in that directory (128x128) in openmoko-standard in order to have shr-contacts icon on desktop
Sep 25 15:07:11 <dns53> go to the illume settings and there are icon sizes
Sep 25 15:12:22 <Cristianpark> dns53: on what section? I only find Icon Theme on appareance section and there i only can select from SHR or Openmoko themes
Sep 25 15:15:12 <Cristianpark> dns53: do you mean by GUI or some illume setting file?
Sep 25 15:15:50 <dns53> the illume gui, that has icon sizes
Sep 25 15:17:54 <dns53> at a guess you need the directories that the icons are in and an [size/name] section with a Context=name section
Sep 25 15:29:54 <Cristianpark> dns53: I'm can't find icons size con Illume appearence menu :S and barely understand the last thing you said
Sep 25 15:31:05 <dns53> ok bring up the illume settings, it's the spanner icon in the top shelf
Sep 25 15:31:20 <dns53> select the launcher entry
Sep 25 15:31:54 <dns53> select the icon size, 128x128 is massive i think
Sep 25 15:40:58 <Cristianpark> Illume crashed......I'll reboot and tell you have happened
Sep 25 15:43:09 <Cristianpark> *what have happened
Sep 25 15:43:23 <Cristianpark> if I can find the size of the icons
Sep 25 15:49:38 <Cristianpark> dns53: I understand you now, I see the size selected is large
Sep 25 15:50:33 <Cristianpark> I'll search the matching directory and trying copy a .png file from /usr/shrare/icons/shr to see if it works
Sep 25 16:04:46 <dns53> Cristianpark probably bed time for me, goodluck
Sep 25 16:07:24 <Cristianpark> dns53: Thank you so much....have some rest is always good
Sep 25 16:13:21 <rhkfin> Hi! I run ssh -X but the app will not start on my laptop but on freerunner. $DISPLAY says localhost:0
Sep 25 16:14:33 <lindi-> rhkfin: DISPLAY=localhost:0 indeed tells the application to connect to X server at localhost (your phone)
Sep 25 16:14:59 <lindi-> rhkfin: what's setting it to localhost:0?
Sep 25 16:15:01 <rhkfin> lindi-: hmm so that's the default.. What do I need to put to get it on the laptop?
Sep 25 16:15:10 <rhkfin> lindi-: SHR..?
Sep 25 16:15:22 <lindi-> rhkfin: that's certainly not the default in any real distro(tm) :)
Sep 25 16:15:31 <rhkfin> lindi-: gotta agree...
Sep 25 16:15:39 <lindi-> rhkfin: probably shr has some bashrc that sets this
Sep 25 16:15:46 <rhkfin> let's see..
Sep 25 16:15:53 <lindi-> rhkfin: just grep -r DISPLAY /etc to find it
Sep 25 16:16:21 <rhkfin> /etc/profile does it
Sep 25 16:17:20 <Cristianpark> All: the icons missing thing was resolved putting i.e /usr/share/icons/shr/86x86/shr-contacts.png on /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard/32x32/apps
Sep 25 16:17:40 <Cristianpark> remember that I have "Large" on Launcher size on Illume settings
Sep 25 16:21:04 <rhkfin> lindi-: ys, it works now, thanks
Sep 25 16:27:56 <Cristianpark> rhkfin: You comment a line in /etc/profile? or how did you make it?
Sep 25 16:29:22 <rhkfin_mobile> Cristianpark: commented the export DISPLAY -line by adding # in the beginning (and re-login to load the profile again)
Sep 25 16:31:15 <Cristianpark> rhkfin_mobile: thanks, it's very useful tip
Sep 25 16:31:38 <rhkfin_mobile> Cristianpark: indeed..
Sep 25 16:32:01 <rhkfin_mobile> You can also apply it per command by adding DISPLAY=:10 in front of the command
Sep 25 16:32:09 <rhkfin_mobile> like DISPLAY=:0 vala-terminal
Sep 25 16:33:58 <rhkfin_mobile> Cristianpark: I mean DISPLAY=:10
Sep 25 16:35:01 <Cristianpark> rhkfin_mobile: Great!....Thanks. There is a 'tips' section on the wiki? or is this tip somewhere on the wiki? as I said, it is very useful
Sep 25 16:38:46 <rhkfin_mobile> Cristianpark: no idea. Can't add it now, feel free to do it. I think SHR manual would be the place 
Sep 25 16:40:42 <Cristianpark> rhkfin_mobile: I'll search for it and if it's not there put it (with the credits to you offcourse)
Sep 25 16:41:36 <rhkfin_mobile> Cristianpark: na, don't put my name there, I was helped by other people. I's a community effort.
Sep 25 16:42:39 <Cristianpark> rhkfin_mobile: ok
Sep 25 16:49:53 <rhkfin_mobile> Anyone willing to help me to share internet to laptop (kubuntu karmic netook) from shr-u?
Sep 25 16:51:16 <rhkfin_mobile> over usb
Sep 25 16:52:49 <eolson> rhkfin, months ago, the firewall.sh script on the wiki let me tether my gprs to my ubuntu laptop.  I don't know if there' something more recent.
Sep 25 16:54:04 <eolson> rhkfin_mobile, this page has the info: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Tethering
Sep 25 16:54:54 <rhkfin_mobile> eolson: I run midori over ssh on my laptop, freerunner is connected over gprs to internet :) But I'll check..
Sep 25 16:56:49 <eolson> the firewall.sh script is about 20 lines or so near the bottom of that page.
Sep 25 16:57:53 <rhkfin_mobile> let's see..
Sep 25 16:59:12 <eolson> The page also says the freerunner needs some packages installed.  It's probably not too easy to do those over gprs. 
Sep 25 16:59:32 <rhkfin_mobile> hmm.. ok..
Sep 25 17:05:37 <PBeck> hi
Sep 25 17:07:26 <Cristianpark> Hi
Sep 25 17:08:05 <rhkfin_mobile> eolson: installed packages, ran firewall.sh, edied /etc/resolv.conf on laptop, no ping yet..
Sep 25 17:09:20 <eolson> does ping work from the freerunner?
Sep 25 17:09:35 <rhkfin_mobile> eolson: it does, I use it to irc at the moment :)
Sep 25 17:10:50 <eolson> You probably need a route setup from your laptop.  "route -n" on your laptop will list the routes
Sep 25 17:11:58 <rhkfin_mobile> on desktop (kde network GUI:) ip 192.168.0.200, subnet 255.255.255.0, gw 192.168.0.200, dns 192.168.0.202. I'll unplug&plug in the usb to make sure the lates settings is loaded..
Sep 25 17:12:11 <eolson> I found my notes.  I had to run this on my laptop after running firewall.sh:
Sep 25 17:12:11 <eolson> sudo route add default gw 192.168.0.202
Sep 25 17:12:20 <rhkfin_mobile> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
Sep 25 17:12:20 <rhkfin_mobile> 192.168.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     1      0        0 eth2
Sep 25 17:12:23 <rhkfin_mobile> 169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 eth2
Sep 25 17:15:53 <eolson> and then if you run anything special like use a proxy on the freerunner, you'll have to do that on the laptop.  For example, I have to set a proxy on my neo to use a browser, so I had to add that to my laptop, too.
Sep 25 17:16:11 <rhkfin_mobile> no I use the default shr-u..
Sep 25 17:16:23 <eolson> ok, that's good
Sep 25 17:16:48 <eolson> did adding the gw work?  ( sudo route add default gw 192.168.0.202 )
Sep 25 17:17:00 <rhkfin_mobile> ok, route -n shows the correct route
Sep 25 17:17:06 <rhkfin_mobile> (ran the sudo route add..)
Sep 25 17:17:31 <rhkfin_mobile> ah, resolv.conf is empty again.
Sep 25 17:17:56 <rhkfin_mobile> hmm, still no..
Sep 25 17:18:52 <eolson> before running firewall.sh, did you run: opkg install iptables iptables-utils kernel-module-ipt-masquerade kernel-module-iptable-nat ?
Sep 25 17:19:19 <rhkfin_mobile> I did, yes
Sep 25 17:19:30 <rhkfin_mobile> It was of decent size also over gprs..
Sep 25 17:19:58 <eolson> You could run "tracepath google.com"  or something similar to see how far it's getting
Sep 25 17:20:22 <eolson> (from the laptop)
Sep 25 17:23:21 <rhkfin_mobile> the DNSdoesnät work..
Sep 25 17:23:24 <rhkfin_mobile> does not
Sep 25 17:24:12 <uraz> hi my phones usb connector broke last week, and i just soldered it back, it seems to work (battery charges) but my computer does not recognize it (with usb networking)
Sep 25 17:24:36 <uraz> i get this error: The IOUSBFamily was not able to enumerate a device
Sep 25 17:24:44 <rhkfin_mobile> eolson: yes, I can ping on IP on the laptop, that's a start :)
Sep 25 17:24:55 <uraz> i get the same "enumerate" on multiple computers
Sep 25 17:24:59 <rhkfin_mobile> Now now do I make FR pass on the DNS requests..
Sep 25 17:25:24 <uraz> could this be related to one of the pins not being properl y soldered?
Sep 25 17:25:32 <ndnihil> uraz: sure there's no shorts or cold joints?
Sep 25 17:25:43 <ndnihil> uraz: and did it work before?
Sep 25 17:26:11 <uraz> ndnihil: there could be on one of the usb pins, my solder is too big to fit in one of the corners
Sep 25 17:26:22 <uraz> yes it worked prior to the usbconnector breaking off
Sep 25 17:26:50 <uraz> the battery gets charged though
Sep 25 17:27:27 <uraz> so its not completly broken, just usbnetworking does not work which is enough of a reason to open it up again, i think it might have happend when i clipped it back into place
Sep 25 17:28:04 <rhkfin_mobile> eolson: ha, I added the resolv.conf entries from FR to laptop - and it looks like it's working. NOT BAD!!!
Sep 25 17:28:10 <rhkfin_mobile> Now I only need to automatize this :)
Sep 25 17:28:47 <eolson> nice! congrats!
Sep 25 17:28:53 <uraz> rhkfin_mobile: check out the networking scripts on the wiki
Sep 25 17:29:28 <rhkfin_mobile> uraz: let's see, I added the operator dns servers to kde..
Sep 25 17:29:50 <rhkfin_mobile> If that works, then I think I only need to run firewall.sh on FR to make it all happen..
Sep 25 17:30:26 <uraz> i dont want to open up my moko again and solder it :(
Sep 25 17:44:39 <rhkfin_mobile> eolson: ok, I now got scripts both on laptop & freerunner that should let me connect. Awesome, thanks!!
Sep 25 17:54:53 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * r0b7a203a7f7c 10/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
Sep 25 17:54:53 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: add handler for org.freesmartphone.Usage.ResourceAvailable signal
Sep 25 17:54:53 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de>
Sep 25 17:57:07 <eolson> rhkfin, no problem, glad it works :)
Sep 25 18:48:57 <starox> Fucj Cut-R
Sep 25 19:07:47 <Blu3> has something changed with the shr-u repos in the last few weeks?  i've seen zero updates except for one fsousaged update which has a missing glib dependency so it won't update
Sep 25 20:20:18 <dos1> Blu3: no, nothing changed recently
Sep 25 20:20:38 <Blu3> so no software packages have been updated in 3+ weeks?
Sep 25 20:20:47 <dos1> 3 weeks?
Sep 25 20:20:59 <Blu3> yes
Sep 25 20:21:01 <dos1> time goes fast ;x
Sep 25 20:21:05 <Blu3> :)
Sep 25 20:21:17 <dos1> i thought it was less amount of time ;)
Sep 25 20:21:27 <dos1> but yes, there were no changes
Sep 25 20:21:38 <Blu3> my last update was done three weeks ago and there were maybe a dozen packages needing updated
Sep 25 20:21:56 <dos1> as syncing feed would put X.org to it
Sep 25 20:22:18 <dos1> and dunno how broken it is atm. i hope it'll be finished soon ;)
Sep 25 20:22:51 <Blu3> fsousaged is the only outstanding pkg needing an update but it wants libfso-glib0-0.2.1-gitr047... which is non-existent
Sep 25 20:23:11 <max_posedon> Blu3, try install via direct link
Sep 25 20:23:21 <max_posedon> at least I did so
Sep 25 20:23:31 <Blu3> i don't know where the direct url is since that file isn't in the repo :)
Sep 25 20:23:51 <max_posedon> its in repo, but not in feeds
Sep 25 20:24:30 <Blu3> i last browsed about four days ago and couldn't find it
Sep 25 20:26:44 <max_posedon> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/armv4t/libfso-glib0_0.2.1+gitr47+7608c8d98bb65bb5beca6621eb86920b71df1bc9-r0_armv4t.ipk
Sep 25 20:26:53 <max_posedon> ha, now I understand
Sep 25 20:26:58 <max_posedon> + instead -
Sep 25 20:28:46 <Blu3> that was my typo. it is:
Sep 25 20:28:47 <Blu3> ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for fsousaged:
Sep 25 20:28:48 <Blu3>          *  libfso-glib0 (>= 0.2.1+gitr47+7608c8d98bb65bb5beca6621eb86920b71df1bc9) *
Sep 25 20:29:58 <Blu3> it's d/l now
Sep 25 20:30:18 <max_posedon> so, you have exactly my issue
Sep 25 20:30:34 <max_posedon> and direct opkg install <link> will help you same as me
Sep 25 20:30:49 <Blu3> *nod*  i'm waiting on it to do that
Sep 25 20:32:26 <Blu3> hmm.  now that iphone does mms, i have to get to work on my sms app and finish at least rudimentary mms support
Sep 25 20:32:40 <Blu3> everyone is sending me mms's now
Sep 25 20:33:23 <max_posedon> mms is just wap + sms as I know
Sep 25 20:33:46 <max_posedon> doesn't it?
Sep 25 20:34:03 <Blu3> with rich content
Sep 25 20:34:30 <Blu3> markup, images, compressed content, etc
Sep 25 20:34:46 <Blu3> and it can obviously be mucho bigger than 140bytes :)
Sep 25 20:34:59 <max_posedon> I mean
Sep 25 20:35:33 <max_posedon> when you receiving mms, you receiving sms or ussd with wap-link
Sep 25 20:35:37 <Blu3> mms is; you get an SMS message with a URL in it.  you fetch that URL via your WAP proxy then render the content
Sep 25 20:36:02 <Blu3> yes.  all sms afaik. none ussd that i've seen
Sep 25 20:36:39 <max_posedon> so, mms is marketing bulshit, people can use normal internet instead
Sep 25 20:37:59 <Blu3> not quite following your correlation.  sms is limited to 140 bytes (160 7bit chars)
Sep 25 20:38:02 <Blu3> mms is not limited
Sep 25 20:38:41 <Blu3> so to deliver any content larger than 140 bytes, instead of spreading it over numerous sms messages, you send an sms with a url in it for the phone to fetch
Sep 25 20:38:53 <Blu3> it's far more efficient than using sms
Sep 25 20:39:12 <max_posedon> I mean, people just should use internet(gprs?) + im(jabber?) and similar services
Sep 25 20:39:43 <Blu3> the internet (gprs or better) is certainly required
Sep 25 20:39:49 <max_posedon> ok, anyway, have to buy some food)
Sep 25 20:40:38 <Blu3> IM?  IM isn't for sending rich content like pictures.  IM uses a URL to fetch large contents just like SMS
Sep 25 20:41:43 <mjr> using sms for arrival notification does enable you to sleep more effectively and still get your messages
Sep 25 20:42:38 <mjr> personally I find them rather useless though, I don't need overly synchronous "rich content" communications
Sep 25 20:42:40 <PaulFertser> Blu3: cellphone is not for exchanging "rich content" anyway
Sep 25 20:43:15 <Blu3> well, millions of people have disregarded your opinion and send pictures, documents, and video with their cellphones
Sep 25 20:43:45 <PaulFertser> Blu3: millions of people are using windows operating system and listen to britney spears.
Sep 25 20:43:56 <Blu3> the world of openmoko plain text messages shall remain a small circle
Sep 25 20:44:22 <Blu3> not everyone shares your opinion that a cellphone should be incapable of rich content
Sep 25 20:45:09 <Blu3> why do we have a GUI when it should be a vi interface to send AT commands on the modem?
Sep 25 20:45:14 <PaulFertser> Blu3: well, i just don't think that sms is a good media to deliver notifications like those.
Sep 25 20:45:28 <Blu3> what media would you use?
Sep 25 20:45:49 <PaulFertser> Blu3: in fact i think that currently only emacs can provide real integration and conveniency for smartphone users. I tried it on FR and it rocks.
Sep 25 20:46:28 <mjr> Blu3, certainly many do use them, but I rather think you're succumbing to exaggaration on the other end
Sep 25 20:46:53 <Blu3> you have to notify the user that they have a rich content message, how else are you going to do so?
Sep 25 20:47:04 <mjr> I don't think the people using predominantly text messages are a "small circle" by far
Sep 25 20:47:07 <PaulFertser> Blu3: (media) why not jabber? It can send small documents just fine. And you can always pass a link to a bigger one. And while the phone is sleeping it can wake up on incoming gprs traffic just fine.
Sep 25 20:47:39 <Blu3> jabber is much less efficient than pushing an SMS message to a phone and the phone fetching the content from the URL
Sep 25 20:47:58 <PaulFertser> Blu3: how is that? Traffic?
Sep 25 20:48:33 <Blu3> where are you going to put a jabber server between two cellphones?
Sep 25 20:49:06 <PaulFertser> Blu3: there's plenty of those in the internet already, i don't get what you're after.
Sep 25 20:49:09 <Blu3> none of the cellular providers run jabber servers afaik
Sep 25 20:49:49 <PaulFertser> Blu3: jabber.org is ok. And btw the desire of most sane cellphone user is to make themselves less dependent on provider, not more.
Sep 25 20:49:50 <Blu3> mms doesn't require any external servers from the cellular network
Sep 25 20:50:15 <PaulFertser> Blu3: so how does it prove it's any better?
Sep 25 20:50:27 <Blu3> i'm not going to argue this
Sep 25 20:50:41 <Blu3> you guys can be as anti mms as you want, it's not going to change the rest of the world
Sep 25 20:51:34 <PaulFertser> Blu3: oh, pity :( I hoped to hear some more arguments. You seem to be smart enough to explain some appropriate reasoning to us "anti-mms" guys.
Sep 25 20:51:57 <PaulFertser> Blu3: fyi i'm arguing for the sake of knowning more, not to troll or something.
Sep 25 20:52:01 <Blu3> i'm not going to argue why we should add more dependencies to a simple protocol
Sep 25 20:52:37 <Blu3> i'm not going to argue why people like sending pictures around with no other requirement than knowing a phone number
Sep 25 20:54:41 <Blu3> the majority of fso/openmoko* is anti-mms.  ok.  if you don't like it, don't use it.  other people do like it and they do use it.  but you guys are snide and derogatory when the subject comes up
Sep 25 20:54:57 <PaulFertser> Blu3: :( it'd be interesting if you were... AFAIK mms is overpriced and not _that_ simple. And is not compatible with any other equipment over there. It works using tcp/ip network but doesn't use any of the established standards. So you can't easily exchange mms with an internet-connected laptop e.g.
Sep 25 20:56:23 <Blu3> i think you're misinformed.  sms doesn't work 1:1 with a laptop either.  both require gateways.  cellphone use of <x> is often done through a gateway because the gateway makes the gw<->phone bitwise traffic much smaller
Sep 25 20:56:43 <Blu3> that providers ass rape you for any given service is beside the point
Sep 25 20:56:46 <slaxxer> Slackware being the fastest linux  an the simplest,,,   makes me wonder   why theres not an install of slack yet
Sep 25 20:57:09 <ndnihil> how do you figure slackware is the "fastest"?
Sep 25 20:57:25 <slaxxer> its a known fact
Sep 25 20:57:30 <Blu3> i can send email messages <with rich content> from my desktop/laptop to my phone and back again.  the gateway does the munging
Sep 25 20:57:44 <ndnihil> known by who, and how did they come to that conclusion?
Sep 25 20:57:53 <slaxxer> it will run on a 100mhz pentium
Sep 25 20:58:10 <ndnihil> so will any other dist with the same kernel and GNU environment
Sep 25 20:58:13 <Blu3> MMS is pretty simple and the underlaying protocol is basic http with most headers stripped out
Sep 25 20:58:18 <slaxxer> proly a 50 mhz pentium
Sep 25 20:58:25 <Blu3> slaxxer, that's silliness
Sep 25 20:58:30 <slaxxer> not
Sep 25 20:58:38 <Blu3> a kernel is a kernel is a kernel.  it doesn't matter which distro it's on
Sep 25 20:58:48 <ndnihil> 15:58 < Blu3> a kernel is a kernel is a kernel.  it doesn't matter which distro
Sep 25 20:58:51 <ndnihil>               it's on
Sep 25 20:58:53 <ndnihil> quoted for truth ^
Sep 25 20:59:13 <Blu3> saying "distro x" is faster than "distro y" means you have very little grasp of the mechanics inside the kernel and the daemons running
Sep 25 21:00:10 <Blu3> the difference between distributions is largely in the daemons they choose for default and the branding of the desktop, and last, the layout of the files
Sep 25 21:00:36 <slaxxer> so thats why ubuntu is so slow?
Sep 25 21:01:05 <ndnihil> oh dear
Sep 25 21:01:13 <mjr> Blu3, well, FWIW, it'd be good if someone implemented MMS for FSO or whatever. I don't care, but interop with existing systems generally is a good thing...
Sep 25 21:01:17 <Blu3> if distro X has a daemon D which is bytewise exact for distro Y, then it will take exactly the same number of cpu cycles to accomplish something
Sep 25 21:01:19 <ndnihil> I'd rather argue about MMS :)
Sep 25 21:01:41 <Blu3> slaxxer i suggest you profile it and see where the differences are
Sep 25 21:01:43 <mjr> (just to point out not all of us are "anti-mms"
Sep 25 21:02:11 <Blu3> mjr, i'm doing so in my sms program but i've had zilch time since about may
Sep 25 21:04:06 <ndnihil> I'd totally like to see OM/FSO/SHR be MMS capable
Sep 25 21:04:44 <ndnihil> how else are chick supposed to send you boob shots from their phones?
Sep 25 21:04:48 <ndnihil> s/chick/chicks/
Sep 25 21:04:58 <apt> ndnihil meant: how else are chicks supposed to send you boob shots from their phones?
Sep 25 21:05:01 <Blu3> as would i.  i'm probably the biggest proponent.  i just haven't had time to fix the fso bug (if it still exists) and do the rendering
Sep 25 21:05:12 * Blu3 prefers not seeing boob shots
Sep 25 21:05:15 <Ainulindale> ndnihil: that is to receive ads from KFC?
Sep 25 21:05:24 <ndnihil> I don't get ads at all
Sep 25 21:05:35 <Ainulindale> ndnihil: (sorry bad pun :-) )
Sep 25 21:05:36 <ndnihil> but then, I don't sign up for stupid shit with my phone
Sep 25 21:05:47 <ndnihil> ah
Sep 25 21:06:00 <Blu3> that would be godaddy ads i think
Sep 25 21:14:07 <PaulFertser> Blu3: who said i like SMS or even GSM voice features? I'd prefer to have fast and cheap 3G and sip over it of course.
Sep 25 21:14:30 <Blu3> 4g
Sep 25 21:14:53 <PaulFertser> Blu3: ah, so there're additional MMS gateways. _additional_ while usual e-mail or IM works with what already exists.
Sep 25 21:15:29 <PaulFertser> Blu3: btw, here in Moscow we have a decent coverage of WiMax.
Sep 25 21:16:06 <PaulFertser> So yes, i'd prefer everybody to use sip and jabber for the sake of interoperability of everything with everything.
Sep 25 21:16:29 <Blu3> every msc has gateways to level the load
Sep 25 21:18:02 <Blu3> the design of logical units is to simplify the representation of physical units in a cellular network.  packets from one phone can travel through hundreds or thousands of distinct devices before reaching their destination
Sep 25 21:18:47 <Blu3> america won't get decent coverage of wimax without charging customers another ass raping
Sep 25 21:19:12 <Blu3> american corps are the most greedy in the world in my opinion
Sep 25 21:25:45 <PaulFertser> Blu3: you know i dreamed of visiting CA for quite some time
Sep 25 21:28:00 <SpeedEvil> If you don't have the ass-raping, it doesn't work.
Sep 25 21:28:14 <SpeedEvil> Bandwidth is sharply finite - over the air bandwidth.
Sep 25 21:28:41 <SpeedEvil> It's got to be priced and managed so that it doesn't get bogged into uselessness.
Sep 25 21:32:08 <PaulFertser> Blu3: and now i don't because not only us corps are greedy but us people (almost the majority of) are evil enough to force all foreigners to go through fingerprinting scanning which i find highly inappropriate.
Sep 25 21:36:33 <Blu3> i'm firmly against the fingerprint scanning as well
Sep 25 21:38:05 <PaulFertser> Blu3: i don't have any doubts about that. My remark was rather a general rant, not directly applicable to you.
Sep 25 21:38:12 <Blu3> i know
Sep 25 21:38:37 <PaulFertser> Just to make it clear. Because i have a tendency to make everything unclear ;) Or whatever. :D
Sep 25 21:39:02 <Blu3> =]
Sep 25 21:39:25 <Blu3> my responses are lagged.  i'm preoccupied with pulling my upper intake apart to clean it
Sep 25 21:41:37 <PaulFertser> Blu3: cleaning intake? I thought usually people only change air filters.
Sep 25 21:42:55 <Blu3> my engine is overbored and fitted poorly with pistons.  lots  of oil gets sucked back up into the intake via the egr valve and along with it exhaust smoke which naturally is heavily sooted.  so it plugs up pretty bad every ~6mo
Sep 25 21:43:02 <Blu3> makes it run horrible
Sep 25 21:43:50 <PaulFertser> Blu3: i see. It's great to meet DIYers here, btw :)
Sep 25 21:45:08 <Blu3> yeah :)
Sep 25 21:45:34 <Blu3> i do everything unless i require a tool/machine that costs $$$$ or i don't feel like handling the hazmat waste (change oil)
Sep 26 02:00:35 <DocScrutinizer> heh, so much traffic n this channel
Sep 26 02:01:06 <DocScrutinizer> almost incredible
Sep 26 02:22:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> damn, the vanishing flag-file not only gave me firstboot-screens... it also messed my carefully selected sorting og illume bar gadgets
Sep 26 02:22:25 <DocScrutinizer-8> weeiiiiird
Sep 26 02:23:18 * DocScrutinizer-8 should start a e3fsck
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 26 02:59:57 2009