**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 30 02:59:57 2009 Sep 30 03:19:18 hello moko people Sep 30 03:22:25 as far as mindless user-friendly distros go, would you say that qtmoko is the most matured? Sep 30 03:47:46 should there not be a uboot an Qi on the shr-u site? Sep 30 03:55:15 linuxxr: uboot and qi is not something you update very often Sep 30 08:08:31 raster, I just met your evil twin :D Sep 30 08:08:39 raster, he was on gentoo asking on help for mips Sep 30 08:08:57 raster, I mean #gentoo. first he was named raster_, now rastersoft :P Sep 30 08:09:28 raster, I had a real kick of you starting to use gentoo and switching to mips :D Sep 30 08:15:16 cz_jc: not so lucky. Sep 30 08:15:58 raster, haha, hi btw Sep 30 08:17:02 :) Sep 30 08:17:24 as if i'd expose myself to the pain of trying gentoo? got better things to do :) Sep 30 08:17:44 gentoo is great for people with waaaay too much time on their hands :) Sep 30 08:18:48 especially those who are compiling straight on Freerunner :) Sep 30 08:19:03 oh god no. that'd be more than pain Sep 30 08:19:03 raster, or on architectures where official support for packages sucks hard or is basically nonexistent Sep 30 08:19:17 raster, I use distcc you know :D Sep 30 08:19:18 cz_jc: i find myself not on one of those :) Sep 30 08:19:24 I do Sep 30 08:19:31 I'm running on ARM and Neo Freerunner Sep 30 08:19:34 no ubuntu here Sep 30 08:19:46 and my target devices when i work on them.. are supported.., and generally have a snowballs chance in hell of self-hosting within sanity limits Sep 30 08:20:04 i have better things to do than wait 6 weeks for the os to compile Sep 30 08:20:05 :) Sep 30 08:20:24 raster, (or just use a binhost and get binary packages for whatever is precompiled) Sep 30 08:20:43 at which point your system is binary supported Sep 30 08:20:43 :) Sep 30 08:20:56 (well by gentoo - or for that matter by a bunch of other systems) Sep 30 08:21:07 raster, yes and you still have recipes for many packages that are not precompiled which you can possibly even cross compile on a host system Sep 30 08:21:10 either way my targets are not even supported by gentoo Sep 30 08:21:18 letalone openembedeed or anythign else Sep 30 08:21:38 raster, even unsupported targets work with gentoo, its all a matter of architecture Sep 30 08:21:45 they wont Sep 30 08:21:50 as u have no kernel for them Sep 30 08:22:00 since even upstream kernel support isnt there yet Sep 30 08:22:01 and usually, just inventing your own keyword will get 'unsupported' packages compiled anyway Sep 30 08:22:15 raster, yeah if you have no kernel then its bad Sep 30 08:22:17 letalone the fact that even if thewre is - the upstream kernel has no driver support for 1/2 the soc Sep 30 08:22:35 raster, you don't have to use upstream kernel with gentoo Sep 30 08:23:05 i have systems where the flashing mechanism is proprietary, where the kernel is stoo Sep 30 08:23:09 there isnt source for it... Sep 30 08:23:12 well not that i have Sep 30 08:23:24 not to mention the base os, plus telephony stack and more... Sep 30 08:23:37 gentoo would be a glorious waste of my time :( Sep 30 08:23:40 raster, any package can provide a kernel, you can just import your own kernel from git using a 5-liner or so Sep 30 08:23:40 raster, then you add kernel to package.provide and stick in a binary kernel ;) Sep 30 08:23:40 but lack of kernel headers, etc may be bad Sep 30 08:23:40 especially if they modified some major subsystems Sep 30 08:24:14 otherwise I found even with a bad config, I don't get any bad errors with vanilla kernel sources linked apps on my om-specific kernel Sep 30 08:24:40 as i said... it'd be a waste of my time Sep 30 08:24:51 as it stands now i have a working system i can modify and update the bits i am working on Sep 30 08:24:51 raster, but then even if it was not gentoo, you wouldn't be able to compile apps for such system Sep 30 08:25:08 gentoo would be a timesink for days if not weeks of my tiome to port it and get it working Sep 30 08:25:20 i am able to compile for it Sep 30 08:25:26 raster, yeah, imo gentoo is compiling by hand + a lot of convenience scripts for it :) Sep 30 08:25:34 correct Sep 30 08:25:37 and that has already been done Sep 30 08:25:44 with chunks pre-build and provided as binaries Sep 30 08:26:23 yeah you can have prebuilt binaries but whats the point of having gentoo then Sep 30 08:26:54 thats what i was saying Sep 30 08:26:56 its no point Sep 30 08:27:19 and my desktops/laptops are already well supported by unbuntu and i have better thigns to do that recompile them Sep 30 08:27:40 mine is not X-) Sep 30 08:28:00 but I got so used to it I have a working system within a day with pretty easy maintenance Sep 30 08:28:03 I'm really happy Sep 30 08:28:15 whatever works, works.. right ? Sep 30 08:28:38 yup Sep 30 08:28:53 i guess i like a workign system in < 1hr with ubntu Sep 30 08:28:57 i dotn have the patience to wait a day Sep 30 08:29:30 irf i actually needed to compile large chunks of my system.. i would consider it Sep 30 08:29:38 but the days of needing to do that are well and truly over Sep 30 08:31:00 my Illume decided on boot-up it was the first time; and contrary to earlier times when selecting quick-start apps, it applied my empty selection. Sep 30 08:31:32 doesnt matter Sep 30 08:31:35 so now I have no icons on my main screen. what's the command to initialize again, or which config file to edit to get the icons back? Sep 30 08:31:38 those are only userful in normal e Sep 30 08:31:42 illume doesnt use those Sep 30 08:32:08 if tis illume it'll display all your apps as would appear in a system launcher app menu Sep 30 08:32:09 raster, yeah but fortunately I don't install that often :) Sep 30 08:33:12 Kero, check if /tmp is user writable Sep 30 08:33:28 Kero, that did serious problems for me with e as it couldn't create some socket Sep 30 08:33:55 (it ran but no illume icons, etc) Sep 30 08:34:36 e would not be happy with a non writable /tmp Sep 30 08:34:37 :) Sep 30 08:35:22 yeah I really dunno how my /tmp got such borked permissions, must've been some random damage Sep 30 08:35:52 quite writable. tmpfs and all, enlightenment-root file is in there. Sep 30 08:36:04 it took me a while to discover too XD Sep 30 08:36:51 I've seen ext2 breakage with deleted /var/* that was half there (after battery ran out), error complained about NFS file system. X did not even boot, at that time. Sep 30 08:37:36 just rm -rf ~/.e and boot again Sep 30 08:37:39 u'll start cleanly Sep 30 08:40:56 raster: why reboot to restart window manager? Sep 30 08:41:47 lindi-: because i'm tired of telling people how to stop and styart their x session Sep 30 08:41:50 reboot is shorter to type Sep 30 08:42:14 raster: icewm has a 'restart icewm' menu option Sep 30 08:42:20 there we go, NFS errors when I try to remove ~/.e :( Sep 30 08:42:34 hehe Sep 30 08:42:38 * cz_jc uses slim on his fr Sep 30 08:42:48 very nice display manager by the way Sep 30 08:42:52 and its the correct way to go imo Sep 30 08:42:53 but I know how to get rid of those. thx! Sep 30 08:43:26 lindi-: e does too - except e likes to repopulate dirs. when u restart it will try save config and go "ooh no! no ~/.e dir! let me refill the dirs for u. they were lost, so i can save my config" Sep 30 08:43:46 Kero: dude. if u have nfs errors on a freerunner.. u are doing somethnig wrong. Sep 30 08:44:34 raster: ah, icewm does not write to ~/.icewm ever afaik Sep 30 08:45:42 yup Sep 30 08:45:43 different Sep 30 08:45:48 e manages its own config Sep 30 08:45:55 has gui dialogs for it and saves state Sep 30 08:46:11 thigns like window remembers (rememebr the desktop, posotion, size, and other states of a window) need to be saved somewhere Sep 30 08:46:18 icewm doesnt do those things Sep 30 08:46:30 e very much more "takes care of itself" Sep 30 08:47:11 and thus is aggressive at wanting to be able to save its state. it does this whenevrr such state/config changes (well given a delay to collect multiple changes together) and on exit/restart to ensure its current state is never lost Sep 30 08:47:39 <[Rui]> how hard would it be to write a simple script to /usr/bin/resx for people to restart X ? :) echo '(nohup /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart&)' > /usr/bin/resx ? Sep 30 08:48:00 killall X(fbdev) Sep 30 08:48:02 or Xglamo Sep 30 08:48:03 or xinit Sep 30 08:48:04 pick Sep 30 08:48:11 and then use the oe x restart script Sep 30 08:48:16 i just get bored of explaining it Sep 30 08:48:57 <[Rui]> raster: I know and understand, I'm just saying, that such a simple script could be put by default in /usr/bin Sep 30 08:49:06 it could be Sep 30 08:49:09 but it isnt there Sep 30 08:49:13 <[Rui]> then only telling people there's a command resx for a "quick" restart :) Sep 30 08:49:14 also possibly Xorg XD Sep 30 08:49:44 [Rui], not on my system with vanilla Xorg Sep 30 08:50:06 <[Rui]> cz_jc: but you're not with shr-u right? :) Sep 30 08:50:17 [Rui], nopeXD Sep 30 08:50:25 <[Rui]> of course that script was oriented as a proof of concept on nodm :) Sep 30 08:50:50 why nodm if there is a dm that is plain and simple and takes proper care of your X ? Sep 30 08:51:03 <[Rui]> more elaboration could add a few ifs... if [ -x /etc/init.d/xserver ] ... elif [ -x /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm ], etc... Sep 30 08:51:22 <[Rui]> cz_jc: sorry that's bad Sep 30 08:51:27 cz_jc: for embedded devices u dont need a "dm" Sep 30 08:51:37 <[Rui]> cz_jc: in low memory devices you don't want useless processes running around Sep 30 08:51:38 all u need is something that starts x Sep 30 08:51:41 u doint log in Sep 30 08:51:51 raster, what if X crashes for some reason and the system is unsuable without X (touchscreen) ? Sep 30 08:52:00 x restarts are really incredibly rare if ever nedded, and at that point u can just as well reboot Sep 30 08:52:08 raster, happens sometimes, slim restarts X server for example Sep 30 08:52:15 cz_jc: any x crash should have the system start a reboot/shutdown Sep 30 08:52:19 its a tiny DM just for autologgin a user session Sep 30 08:52:30 chances are that a crash at that level may have to do with hw drvierz Sep 30 08:52:35 raster, then you can set slim to reboot the system when X crashes ;) Sep 30 08:52:43 as x is really a user-mode drvier.. u are best off getting your system a clean reboot Sep 30 08:53:09 gdm for example tries to restart X serveral times and troubleshoot the problem afterwards Sep 30 08:53:13 i've been doing things long enough to know how bad things can get after x crashes.. and trying to ressurrect things without a reboot Sep 30 08:53:19 (usually doesnt end up well of course) Sep 30 08:53:26 as for slim - u dont even need it if all u do is reboot Sep 30 08:53:35 its simply part of the x script Sep 30 08:53:53 raster, still if I can do it correctly with a tiny C application, I go for it :) Sep 30 08:53:56 once the xinit process exits (For whatever reson) just issue a shutdown -h now Sep 30 08:54:01 you all run your systems under root, I don't XD Sep 30 08:54:03 there is zero need for anything more complex Sep 30 08:54:12 and theres slim for starting my user session Sep 30 08:54:33 xinit can be run as a user id Sep 30 08:54:38 raster, sounds like a job for init system then Sep 30 08:54:56 su -c xinit username Sep 30 08:55:02 indeed Sep 30 08:55:06 raster, why not make X a default login shell instead of agetty while youre at it ? hehe Sep 30 08:55:07 its a job for your init system imho Sep 30 08:55:18 be that scripts or whatever Sep 30 08:55:26 there is no need for multiple users on devices Sep 30 08:56:52 getty runs on a specific tty Sep 30 08:56:56 x is a service - like a daemon Sep 30 08:57:06 u just shoudl start x really early in boot Sep 30 08:57:15 part of your x login would literally be boot status Sep 30 08:57:23 (like login animation, progress bar etc. etc.) Sep 30 08:57:31 as other services u need come up in the backgorund Sep 30 08:57:45 once u have enough for the gui to be functional - u finish boot Sep 30 08:58:03 anythngin else extra comes up in the bg under a loooow priority (eg nice'd) Sep 30 08:58:13 <[Rui]> raster: reboot makes it take the triple of the time, sadly Sep 30 08:58:38 ah sorry I'm blacking out, I'm at school and have to suspend often. also the connection sucks Sep 30 08:58:49 [Rui]: thats another matter entirely. inefficient boot. Sep 30 08:58:58 blergh, fsck did not help. furtunately `mv .e elsewhere` did. Sep 30 08:59:10 <[Rui]> raster: yeah ;) but a pratical current concern Sep 30 08:59:11 as i said.. its VERY rare that u need to restart x Sep 30 08:59:23 x has become totally dynamic in almsot all its config Sep 30 08:59:24 <[Rui]> raster: and I disagree with you on the "multiuser" thing for phones Sep 30 08:59:30 <[Rui]> raster: there should be two users Sep 30 08:59:34 <[Rui]> root and your user Sep 30 08:59:37 the only reasons i can think of are an upgrade to x and./or driver code (or kernel drivers below it) Sep 30 09:00:00 if x crashes this likely leaves the whole gfx hw in an inconsistent state. this is almost always a good reason to reboot to get it consistent Sep 30 09:00:11 <[Rui]> I dread the day something very bad happens and because I'm root it'll have a huge impact on my data Sep 30 09:00:34 not to mention a crash is likely the sign of something having corrupted more as x has mmap access to many memory regions it could screw with other drivers, hw and even userspace memory, fs data etc. Sep 30 09:00:49 u want to reboot and clean up asap after x has segv'd/crashed etc. Sep 30 09:01:03 as for multiuser - i dont consider root + you as multi Sep 30 09:01:04 :) Sep 30 09:01:11 u never log in as a different user Sep 30 09:01:28 u simpy get some level of protection as u have to jump through a specific "root hole" to get access to things Sep 30 09:01:41 my phone is multiuser friendly until it comes to FSO apps which need to run in a single instance under root Sep 30 09:01:41 they spit creepy edje errors otherwise (permissions or something ?) Sep 30 09:01:42 eg u have a root daemon that u request services from - this acts as a layer of protection. Sep 30 09:01:52 but u dont log in as "jane" then log out and in as "bob" Sep 30 09:02:32 mind u - in the end.. your data is still owned by "you" - be that root or a non uid 0 user. Sep 30 09:02:45 yes I also don't consider me + root multiuser Sep 30 09:02:47 if somethnig happens "your data" is still at risk. as it is on your desktop or laptop Sep 30 09:02:52 I meant multiple users besides root Sep 30 09:03:05 cz_jc: yup. i agree that really there should be the normal user as a non-root user Sep 30 09:03:05 slim makes that possible but with current fso apps status, only one user would be able to phone Sep 30 09:03:13 and then root "holes" to jump through Sep 30 09:03:16 and it won't switch to his screen when a call goes, etc Sep 30 09:03:23 but its frankly easier to do it all as root. Sep 30 09:03:28 but i wouldnt do it if i had the choice. Sep 30 09:04:06 raster, you have a clean record when it comes to me, illume works flawlessly under user :D Sep 30 09:04:17 its the fso -bound userspace apps that suck Sep 30 09:04:18 they have some edje problems Sep 30 09:05:17 cz_jc: well some things wont 100% work right.. like monitoring bluetooth devidfec.. i think Sep 30 09:05:20 i think i need read perms Sep 30 09:05:28 but i generally do the right thing and make "root holes" where i need them Sep 30 09:05:41 eg for opening netlink sockets to get wifi signal strength Sep 30 09:06:04 but i am like you - i believe user = root have their "separations" and thats how it should be Sep 30 09:06:18 the problem is the pita in creating the "jumping thru a setuid root binary hole" to get access often Sep 30 09:07:11 raster, bluetooth works in e ? Sep 30 09:07:11 raster, I use blueman for that :) Sep 30 09:07:11 that breaks down to tray not working in illume Sep 30 09:07:11 which I worked around by moving a shelf over the illume top with a tray icon plugin :D Sep 30 09:07:17 raster, ooh btw blueman notifications (which are supposed to use libnotify) don't work too.. Sep 30 09:07:23 oh that simply is an iocn that shows if bt pwoer is on or off Sep 30 09:07:24 nothing more Sep 30 09:07:37 raster, that icon works :) Sep 30 09:07:41 i rummage thru some /sys files to read that Sep 30 09:07:42 raster, I get it when I turn bluetooth n Sep 30 09:07:49 ooh cool! so doesnt need root perms to read Sep 30 09:07:52 then.. should be fine Sep 30 09:08:32 and notifications - u'd need the notification module Sep 30 09:08:39 but its really not ments for such things Sep 30 09:08:44 its not 100% what u want Sep 30 09:10:21 the tray and libnotify are pissing me off though Sep 30 09:10:21 I tried peeking in the sources, found illume but didn't understand it yet.. Sep 30 09:10:46 raster, oh ! I'll look for it :) Sep 30 09:10:47 thanks :) Sep 30 09:10:54 I thought it was already in the tray Sep 30 09:11:04 nah Sep 30 09:11:08 tray is a tray Sep 30 09:11:09 thats it Sep 30 09:11:09 raster, since it shows a notification when battery is low, etc Sep 30 09:11:14 notification is another standard entirely Sep 30 09:11:24 thats something entirely different Sep 30 09:11:28 thats just e's internal stuff Sep 30 09:11:32 ok.. Sep 30 09:11:33 popping up a window letting u know Sep 30 09:11:43 well battery modulke to be specific Sep 30 09:12:16 raster, btw. is there a way to add a 'one directory up' button to toolbar of filemanager ? Sep 30 09:13:38 to w'f filemangager? Sep 30 09:13:41 err to e's fm? Sep 30 09:13:44 raster, yes Sep 30 09:14:05 my initial guess was to use enlightenment_fm_open $(pwd)/../ Sep 30 09:14:32 in a .desktop file Sep 30 09:14:37 didn't try that yet.. Sep 30 09:15:57 try efm_nav module Sep 30 09:16:03 and enable toolbar in filemanager module Sep 30 09:16:19 raster, thx, I'll try when I get to my fr :) Sep 30 09:18:04 also enable "open dirs in place" Sep 30 09:18:11 u'lkl get just what u want Sep 30 09:18:31 yep Sep 30 09:18:40 if u prefer listviews - u can enable single click Sep 30 09:18:46 raster, another thing, can you add list of mounted devices there ? Sep 30 09:19:14 sorry if u prefer listviews - right lcik and change to list view. it will remember per directory if u had list, icon et.c view Sep 30 09:19:27 singlick click is a global option again in the fm pres Sep 30 09:19:28 prefs Sep 30 09:19:43 yeah, I did that :) Sep 30 09:19:43 raster, I mean the icons that are on filemanager desktop for pen drives, etc. Sep 30 09:19:43 because I switched to illume launcher and I'd like to be able to umount my pendrives via e :) Sep 30 09:19:43 yep :) Sep 30 09:19:58 the favorites sectuion will list all moutable devices (well that hal exposes and says are there with media in them) Sep 30 09:20:01 err hal not hel Sep 30 09:20:27 mind u illume wasnt realy made to work with e's fm as u are doing it Sep 30 09:20:34 raster, yeah. for now I use dbus calls which I don't like.. Sep 30 09:20:56 again I think it could be solved by making a dir where .desktop files that umount devices are automatically made Sep 30 09:20:59 but its a stupid approach :) Sep 30 09:21:18 there is Sep 30 09:21:25 raster, yeah thats the point, I'm only using illume launcher and disabled fm desktop :) Sep 30 09:21:30 ~/.e/e/fileman/favorites Sep 30 09:21:36 as well as links to your "favorite" places Sep 30 09:21:43 (root, tmp, homedir) etc. Sep 30 09:21:48 raster, so I don't get pendrives on my illume desktop Sep 30 09:21:56 raster, they show up there ? Sep 30 09:21:58 oh ! Sep 30 09:22:00 raster, thanks ! Sep 30 09:22:16 e's "main menu" id u have the start module or can somehow get to it has a "files" entry Sep 30 09:22:22 this "files" entry bring sup this dfir Sep 30 09:22:28 as a submenu Sep 30 09:22:30 plus some extras Sep 30 09:22:57 hi Sep 30 09:23:07 if u enable toolbar in efm and efm_+nav Sep 30 09:23:15 and add it to the toolbarm u'll get a hearty icon Sep 30 09:23:22 this is the favorites dir too Sep 30 09:23:35 lots of options Sep 30 09:24:02 raster, beautiful... my friends burst with jealousy as it is when I can put multiple disks/pendrives to my system and theyr filemanagers shows up making thumbnails of pictures :D Sep 30 09:25:00 ability to umount via e and more usability of efm will be a kickass icing on the cake :) Sep 30 09:25:53 :) Sep 30 09:26:42 <[Rui]> raster: can we have good lists of widgets in Elementary? Sep 30 09:26:58 <[Rui]> raster: I'll give you an example: elmdentica Sep 30 09:27:14 <[Rui]> I'd like to have a list of bubble widgets Sep 30 09:27:36 ??? Sep 30 09:27:55 list of widgets fromt he running app? or list of eidgets elm supports? Sep 30 09:27:56 <[Rui]> raster: the current lists expect: something, label, something Sep 30 09:28:02 or list of styles supported.. or? Sep 30 09:28:40 <[Rui]> raster: what I'd like is somehting like elm_list but that would be more generic Sep 30 09:29:03 put a box in a scroller Sep 30 09:29:06 pack things into the box Sep 30 09:29:17 <[Rui]> raster: I tried to have a box with a reply/redent set of buttons as the "icon", no label, and a bubble as the rightmost part Sep 30 09:29:22 <[Rui]> and that doesn't work well Sep 30 09:29:27 if u ewant something that can have bizarre styles per item and hold multiple icons, labels and states Sep 30 09:29:37 <[Rui]> raster: yeah, that's what I'm doing and is insufficient Sep 30 09:29:38 and have each item even be a differnet sisze - genlist Sep 30 09:29:53 it should scale to 1000's or even millions of items. Sep 30 09:30:14 <[Rui]> raster: have you ever seen elmdentica? Sep 30 09:30:23 no - havent Sep 30 09:30:25 show me Sep 30 09:30:28 <[Rui]> for each bubble it has two buttons on the left Sep 30 09:30:44 <[Rui]> http://code.google.com/p/elmdentica/ Sep 30 09:30:55 <[Rui]> the nice screenshot on that page "almost" says it all Sep 30 09:31:17 aaah ekshellent Sep 30 09:31:31 so what dont u like about your current method? Sep 30 09:31:57 <[Rui]> raster: it wastes too much screen space Sep 30 09:32:10 <[Rui]> I'd preffer to have a "toolbar" of buttons Sep 30 09:32:11 what do u want to do? Sep 30 09:32:17 have u got some sort of mockup or example? Sep 30 09:32:19 <[Rui]> and then I'd press on a bubble and it would be sellected Sep 30 09:32:26 <[Rui]> then I could just press reply Sep 30 09:32:53 so u want the buttons on the left to only be visible / take space once an item is selected? Sep 30 09:32:53 <[Rui]> to each bubble I associate the pointer to a list of "dents" Sep 30 09:33:09 <[Rui]> raster: for instance Sep 30 09:33:40 <[Rui]> raster: that would be one way to do it (probably the best), and I didn't see how to do it (maybe it's my fault) Sep 30 09:33:53 <[Rui]> raster: another was to always have the buttons, but only "two" in the bottom Sep 30 09:34:03 <[Rui]> then you'd press on a bubble and the buttons owuld affect that buble Sep 30 09:34:16 well u could simply have an verttical box Sep 30 09:34:22 each item is a horizontal box Sep 30 09:34:48 add a clicked callbask to bubble - but that wont 100% work because i didnt expose that, but i can expose a clicked on it Sep 30 09:34:57 anyway Sep 30 09:35:00 <[Rui]> raster: and Sep 30 09:35:03 <[Rui]> raster: ah... Sep 30 09:35:04 each item.. even better - couble be a table Sep 30 09:35:31 table has bubble packed at 0, 1 1x2 Sep 30 09:35:38 there are 2 empty "button" slots on the left Sep 30 09:35:53 now add an invisible rectangle(color 0 0 0 0) Sep 30 09:35:57 add mouse down callback Sep 30 09:36:01 and ALSO pack that at Sep 30 09:36:06 0, 1 1x2 Sep 30 09:36:11 raise it above bubble Sep 30 09:36:22 it will always be above and packed int he same spot and it will capture your presses Sep 30 09:36:37 on a press - find the parent table (u'll have some struct with this and a list of them) Sep 30 09:36:45 and now create and pack 2 buttons at Sep 30 09:36:51 0, 0 1x1 and 0, 1 1x2 Sep 30 09:37:09 delete the buttons if u click on another bubble entry (and create a new set) Sep 30 09:37:35 <[Rui]> raster: that seems to wast a lot of cycles Sep 30 09:37:58 <[Rui]> but perhaps I can have that invisble rectange in the bottom and have it show up when a bubble is clicked? Sep 30 09:38:17 <[Rui]> raster: so the bubble supports click, even though it isn't yet declared in Elementary.h ? Sep 30 09:38:21 u wont get the click Sep 30 09:38:26 <[Rui]> ah Sep 30 09:38:30 and bubble doesnt - i dont thinkl Sep 30 09:38:33 i dont think 9i made it Sep 30 09:38:51 nup.p. didnt Sep 30 09:38:58 the invisible rect is to get the click Sep 30 09:39:04 it isnty that much extra work for evas Sep 30 09:39:06 <[Rui]> but I could have the invisible rectangles above the bbuble anyway and have the same set of buttons show and hide in the bottom, perhaps Sep 30 09:39:46 <[Rui]> raster: well, I'm going to try to explore your hints and probably some derivations... Sep 30 09:40:03 <[Rui]> so now I have to save this piece of text for later and leave work as early as I can to try them :) Sep 30 09:40:15 <[Rui]> gah, 8 hours to go :( Sep 30 09:40:30 :) Sep 30 09:40:43 <[Rui]> raster: thank you very much for your insights :) Sep 30 09:40:53 hmm, wonder how involved to get shr to offer the usual dun networking... Sep 30 09:41:05 (would like to test blueman, mostly) Sep 30 09:42:55 mjr, I tested blueman on my FR on gentoo already Sep 30 09:43:10 mjr, works but doesn't show notifications yet (it was my error) Sep 30 09:43:47 mjr, anyway I made a PAN network with my phone and even pushing files or browsing over obex works flawlessly Sep 30 09:43:55 fr shows up as a laptop bluetooth device, hehehe Sep 30 09:44:03 :) Sep 30 09:44:36 rfcomm uart emulation is no problem either Sep 30 09:44:49 if PAN doesn't work for you, you can push ppp network through that :) Sep 30 09:44:54 I didn't test HID or audio profiles Sep 30 09:45:00 should work with pulseaudio imo Sep 30 12:37:35 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * rf39f66e9667b 10/modems/ti_calypso.xml: ti_calypso.xml: properly configure +FCLASS command Sep 30 12:37:36 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * recccd96c559e 10/modems/ti_calypso.xml: ti_calypso.xml: add microphone muting and loudspeaker support (CMUT/CLVL) Sep 30 12:37:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * ra9b4116bc8c7 10/modems/ (generic.xml neo1973.xml ti_calypso.xml): remove neo1973.xml; create generic.xml from ti_calypso.xml and remove all Calypso-specific commands Sep 30 12:37:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * r27c3d80a3f0c 10/modems/generic.xml: generic.xml: don't add IMEI: prefix for +CGSN, this is unlikely Sep 30 12:40:15 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbcca20bd2425 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: simplify simple (sic!) AT command classes by deriving from SimpleAtCommand Sep 30 12:40:16 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * ra25522d2b9f2 10/fsodeviced/ (configure.ac src/plugins/alsa_audio/plugin.vala): fsodeviced: catch up with libgee HashMap changes; bump vala requirement Sep 30 12:40:18 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rc87a8f6fcdca 10/fsousaged/ (configure.ac src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala): fsousaged: catch up with libgee master; bump vala version requirement Sep 30 12:40:19 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re90cbc8ebdfc 10/fsonetworkd/configure.ac: fsonetworkd: bump vala version requirement Sep 30 12:40:23 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r2c3d130609a4 10/fsotimed/ (configure.ac src/plugins/alarm/plugin.vala): fsotimed: catch up with libgee master; bump vala version requirement Sep 30 12:40:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re75d2a8d2675 10/fsogsmd/configure.ac: fsogsmd: bump vala version requirement due to async dbus fixes in 0.7.7 Sep 30 12:40:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r286c15a1501f 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: base PlusCFUN on SimpleAtCommand Sep 30 12:40:32 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r46d85b581ca7 10/fsogsmd/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: create generic issue implementation for SimpleAtCommand Sep 30 12:40:35 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5381c7b7e4ff 10/fsogsmd/ (src/lib/atcommands.vala tests/testatcommand.vala): fsogsmd: substitute PlusCGCLASS with SimpleAtCommand Sep 30 12:40:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re36f1b6fd337 10/fsogsmd/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: spice up SimpleAtCommand class to feature test commands (=?) Sep 30 12:40:43 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r04ccf9865fd2 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcommands.vala mediators.vala): fsogsmd: add +CMICKEY command to prepare for sane error handling Sep 30 12:40:46 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r20c875480c41 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcommand.vala mediator.vala mediators.vala): fsogsmd: prepare for At command classes parsing responses as a whole Sep 30 12:40:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r30535648fa79 10/libfsoframework/ (3 files in 2 dirs): libfsoframework: remove generated vapi file; logger is now a public attribute Sep 30 12:40:54 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r7fc165e322a4 10/libfsobasics/ (configure.ac fsobasics/fsobasics-2.0.vapi): libfsobasics: remove generated vapi file Sep 30 12:40:57 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbfd67223698f 10/libfsotransport/ (configure.ac fsotransport/fsotransport-2.0.vapi): libfsotransport: remove generated vapi file Sep 30 13:21:47 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r327f69eb853a 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): all: require libgee 0.5.0 Sep 30 13:21:47 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rdb19789af978 10/fsogsmd/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: use validate function, instead of parsing directly Sep 30 13:32:09 ;/ Sep 30 14:23:33 mjr: hey Sep 30 14:23:43 mjr: usual dun networking works without troubles Sep 30 14:23:51 mjr: at least for me. No blueman necessary. Sep 30 14:24:18 I was spesifically interested in testing blueman Sep 30 14:24:35 mjr: Heinervdm did some work to prepare proper BB recipe. Sep 30 14:24:50 mjr: is it really cool btw? Why should anyone use it? Sep 30 14:25:28 PaulFertser: after freedesktop.org will come back, i will compile all missing depencies for blueman too Sep 30 14:25:31 presumably one probably shouldn't if one has eg. new gnome which seems to have the essentials included Sep 30 14:26:02 mjr: no, what is the motivation to use it on FR? Is it really faster to use comparing to cli way.? Sep 30 14:26:40 ...testing it on a laptop _against_ FR because that's my phone Sep 30 14:27:30 mjr: yes, but i'm trying to understand if i really miss anything by not having it on my FR. Sep 30 14:27:40 no Sep 30 14:28:27 Why do you want to have it then? Sep 30 14:30:03 is it necessary to upgrade gsm firmware? Sep 30 14:30:31 Sometime my FR cannot receive calls when am suspended Sep 30 14:30:45 is there fix for it? Sep 30 14:31:32 i guess it's calypso issue Sep 30 14:32:20 Fuck Sep 30 15:20:12 hi Sep 30 15:27:05 Hi. Sep 30 17:10:37 is there news on plan B or gta 03( or another nice open source mobile phone)? Sep 30 17:10:58 Nope Sep 30 17:15:51 anybody used mokotouch? Sep 30 17:19:12 Early today I was looking for at jffs image of mokotouch but I could not find it so I tried openwrt that crashd so I am back om qtmoko (v12 insteas of v11 I sued yeasterday) Sep 30 17:25:31 wheres the v12 Sep 30 17:25:50 o nenermind Sep 30 17:26:00 im installing it:) Sep 30 17:26:38 can a Armdslack image be made? Sep 30 17:27:18 i would really thank someone for doing that Sep 30 17:27:41 have anyone heard any rumours of how the porting of android is going? :) Sep 30 17:27:43 i dont know how to make a .jffs2 Sep 30 17:28:11 they have been working on Android Sep 30 17:28:33 still moving along Sep 30 17:29:43 last time I tried andorid (around 1.5 beta) there was huge problem with sound qvality. I dont know if they have fixed it Sep 30 17:30:22 PaulFertser said yesterday to try it as it has improved Sep 30 17:31:08 after what google has done to people who works on android I fill less compelling to try it again. Sep 30 17:31:23 noticed a buzz in qtmoko? Sep 30 17:31:26 gsm? Sep 30 17:31:46 beer? Sep 30 17:32:05 ic Sep 30 17:32:14 linuxxr: i never suggest to try android Sep 30 17:32:16 what they do? Sep 30 17:32:39 u didnt tell me that? Sep 30 17:34:07 linuxxr: unless i was drunk and wanted to make a bad joke but i don't remember myself being drunk lately. Sep 30 17:34:18 :) Sep 30 17:34:44 debian only? Sep 30 17:35:38 linuxxr: not really, i've nothing against other free os's but only those that are developed in an open and free way. (qtopia wasn't like that and android is still not like that). Sep 30 17:36:00 linuxxr: last time I tried the gsm I could not connect to it. But that was long time ago (2-3 months and they have been working on it since then Sep 30 17:36:35 I have not notice any buzz at all (but I have also got the buzz fixed appliet to my phone Sep 30 17:37:28 and qtmoko is on debian atm (there was a fso but it seems they have stop developing it Sep 30 17:38:31 beer__: buzz fix is not possible in software ever. And buzz affects all the distros alike. Sep 30 17:38:39 s/alike/the same way/ Sep 30 17:38:39 PaulFertser meant: beer__: buzz fix is not possible in software ever. And buzz affects all the distros the same way. Sep 30 17:39:16 I have the hardware fixed Sep 30 17:40:00 in the beginning of the freerunners life there was also some problem with the echo thing but that was fixed in software Sep 30 17:42:26 * DocScrutinizer-8 sighs Sep 30 17:43:41 DocScrutinizer-8: a problem? Sep 30 17:43:56 nah, not really Sep 30 17:44:35 just I admire PaulFertser's neverending patience Sep 30 17:46:09 did not know that he is a bot made by gud in his image? Sep 30 17:47:31 thank god for paul Sep 30 17:50:49 hmm lets see... Sep 30 17:50:53 ~buzz Sep 30 17:50:54 well, buzz is Debian 1.1, released June 1996 (474 packages, 2.0 kernel, fully ELF, dpkg) Sep 30 17:51:05 lol Sep 30 17:51:22 ~buzzfix Sep 30 17:53:00 hello, please anyone knows where E modules are located ? Sep 30 17:53:30 I'm looking for efm_nav module but I can't find even efm. Modules in e settings contain only "filemanager" and "efm operations" Sep 30 17:57:08 aah disregard, I get it. I must get the E-MODULES-EXTRA from svn Sep 30 17:57:29 ~buzzfix is http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/ and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_Fix and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-August/000267.html ff. Sep 30 17:57:30 okay, DocScrutinizer Sep 30 17:58:46 DocScrutinizer, are you working on another hardware Sep 30 17:58:47 ? Sep 30 17:59:17 DocScrutinizer: it's because i don't do anything useful and sleep instead i have time to patiently lurk on irc. Sep 30 18:00:04 panicking: no. Why? Do you have a job for me? :-) Sep 30 18:00:46 panicking: that would be much appreciated actually Sep 30 18:01:13 DocScrutinizer, I would like to collaborate with you because I don't have an hardware "department" :) Sep 30 18:01:43 DocScrutinizer, I have a group of people, and we are freelance or Phd student Sep 30 18:02:55 hmm that doesn't sound exactly like a job that will buy me food or beer ;-P Sep 30 18:03:45 DocScrutinizer, yes I know but It's easy to find job if the group has a lot of smart people (this is not my case ofcourse :D) Sep 30 18:05:51 hmm, my experience with the (former) bunch of smart people at OM are somewhat different Sep 30 18:07:46 anyway, panicking - if you got an interesting task to offer... don't hesitate. I might find it interesting Sep 30 18:24:26 when I tried to ssh to my freerunner (with qtmoko) it ask for at root pass word. Does someone know what the default password is? Sep 30 18:24:57 Sep 30 18:25:12 oh, qtmoko Sep 30 18:25:44 with just enter I get a Permission denied (publickey,password). Sep 30 18:26:11 tried "root" and "qtmoko"? Sep 30 18:26:14 or better yet Sep 30 18:26:19 the qtmoko documentation Sep 30 18:26:27 where it probably mentions the default password? Sep 30 18:27:12 I am looking at qtmoko.org but as normal it is hard to find the dokumentation that one need Sep 30 18:28:34 The root password is empty so set it for security reason especially when you open the ssh-daemon on t Sep 30 18:29:04 wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QT_Moko Sep 30 18:29:50 tanks Sep 30 18:31:42 DocScrutinizer, Can I send the presentation group Sep 30 18:31:49 the same that I sent to Meizu Sep 30 18:41:32 larsc, Can I ask some questions about the video for-2.6.31 Sep 30 18:41:33 ? Sep 30 18:41:48 raster_, could I please bother you for a while longer ? Sep 30 18:42:28 raster_, I finally found efm_nav module in svn, I got its dir, ran autoconf and on compilation on fr, I get this: e_mod_main.c:57: error: 'e_gadcon_site_is_efm_toolbar' undeclared here (not in a function) Sep 30 18:43:03 raster_, will getting that module really take me recompiling entire E or is there a shortcut to compile it? its a single .c file :/ Sep 30 18:45:20 I get it ./src/bin/.svn/text-base/e_gadcon.c.svn-base:e_gadcon_site_is_efm_toolbar(E_Gadcon_Site site) Sep 30 18:45:25 I just put in 'true' :) Sep 30 18:50:46 panicking: just ask. don't ask to ask ;) Sep 30 18:51:00 sweet ! works ! Sep 30 18:51:14 raster_, you were right, its uber cool :) Sep 30 18:51:26 raster_, I'll make sure e ebuild has use flag for those extra modules Sep 30 18:54:24 is there a easy way for me to connect my freerunner to the internet? Sep 30 18:55:38 beer__: except for studying network administration and then OM wiki, no ;) Sep 30 18:56:06 if you refer to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking you are right Sep 30 18:56:48 I tried that last year withut any luck and did hope that someone has made it easyer Sep 30 18:57:24 the console has never been friendly to me Sep 30 18:58:34 larsc, Ok I have seen that you removed the pan display Sep 30 18:58:57 introduced by Sean McNeil Sep 30 18:59:04 is there a particular reason? Sep 30 18:59:13 beer__: network adiminstration is not something one can learn in 15 min. Sep 30 18:59:53 it isn't? Sep 30 18:59:55 shit Sep 30 19:00:07 * ndnihil quits his job and goes back to washing cars Sep 30 19:01:37 panicking: if you want to support panning you have to reserve more memory for the framebuffer area. i wanted as much as possible for the offscreen area. Sep 30 19:02:06 panicking: if you need panning i suggest you make it configurable via a module parameter or so Sep 30 19:02:42 PaulFertser: I know. My bachelor was in network adiminstration. I was taking care of hosting fourms, webpages, and personla pages and wiki. While other in the group did other parts Sep 30 19:02:43 or just extend the platform data, when you look at vres_xres Sep 30 19:04:17 beer__: then i'm quite impressed you have difficulties with providing internet to a host. Sep 30 19:04:18 panicking: do you have a non gta02 device which has a glamo? Sep 30 19:04:40 no :) I have only a gta02 Sep 30 19:04:59 And I have one gta02 Sep 30 19:05:01 gta03 Sep 30 19:05:05 without display Sep 30 19:05:19 beer__: shr; mokonnect; wifi;