**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 10 02:59:56 2009 Oct 10 03:44:16 so am i the only one getting this problem of not being able to type capital letters in shr on gta01? Oct 10 03:44:34 pretty much makes terminal useless Oct 10 03:55:51 Psi: it works just fine here (upstream "head" svn of e+illume etc. Oct 10 04:02:31 http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-kbd-type-elementary-test.png Oct 10 04:02:36 http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-kbd-type-xterm.png Oct 10 04:02:45 typed with terminal kbd Oct 10 05:06:14 mrmoku has newer images Oct 10 05:10:41 http://build.shr-project.org/tests/mrmoku/unstable/images/om-gta02/?C=M;O=D Oct 10 05:42:37 "Use OpenGl with some commands to read the serial port data." that guy is definetely insane Oct 10 05:56:17 huh? Oct 10 05:58:35 nah, too early **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 10 06:05:56 2009 Oct 10 06:09:28 PaulFertser_: do you understand aarons mail in [hw]? Oct 10 06:13:20 DocScrutinizer-8: i've read it but then just flagged waiting for your reply ;) Oct 10 06:13:57 he seems to use french TLAs Oct 10 06:14:40 which doesn't help much for me to get hs point Oct 10 06:16:46 or it's just me missing another few hours of sleep and then a few cups of coffee Oct 10 06:18:54 DocScrutinizer-8: i think he wants to say that when he changes BL brightness the difference of power consumed by LED BL is 1.5 less than the difference of the power consumed by device as a whole. It's like led converter is not nearly ~95% efficient. Oct 10 06:19:41 I mean the real life efficiency seems lower than expected. Oct 10 06:20:41 if that's exactly his problem, then it's ridiculously simple: he probably just probes for current but misses to calculate power (by I * U) Oct 10 06:21:47 DocScrutinizer-8: he measures current flowing through LED BL and at the same time the voltage on + pin of it. Oct 10 06:24:39 hmm, in Germany we have an EE saying "wer misst, misst Mist" which means the one who probes gets wrong results Oct 10 06:25:21 DocScrutinizer-8: he says he also tried hooking up a 'scope to the LED BL to see the signal and says that its average and RMS match so I*U is correct way to determine the power. Oct 10 06:25:41 as I don't see any of his results but only a fuzzy conclusion of his, I'm not eager to reply Oct 10 06:26:38 DocScrutinizer-8: ok, i'll ask him to provide the result of his measurements, would be interesting to see anyway. Oct 10 06:26:53 BL has some 20V iirc, and bat has ~4V Oct 10 06:27:38 DocScrutinizer-8: yes Oct 10 06:28:19 18V max Oct 10 06:31:22 Mail sent Oct 10 06:37:40 DocScrutinizer-8: what efficiency would you expect from a typical IC boost converter with the inductor employed in FR? Oct 10 06:38:13 (it's some SUBARU-damn-where's-the-datasheet model again) Oct 10 06:40:20 PaulFertser_: some 70..90% Oct 10 06:41:24 DocScrutinizer-8: well, his results give 66.(6)% I guess the devil is definetely involved. Oct 10 06:56:02 hi anyone on SHR noticing that the newer kernel is sucking power Oct 10 06:56:11 (latest unstable) Oct 10 06:56:41 d1b: sucking power when exactly? Oct 10 06:57:32 PaulFertser_: when in stand bye Oct 10 06:57:37 (with gsm on) Oct 10 06:57:41 d1b: what're your results? Oct 10 06:58:07 PaulFertser_: i don't have reliable tests / done any really. Oct 10 06:58:24 but from my experience the june i think it was ... used less power. Oct 10 06:58:26 / seems to. Oct 10 06:58:35 d1b: i can tell you that the kernel wasn't changed at all for quite some time, at least nothing pm-related. Oct 10 06:58:48 PaulFertser_: oh? Oct 10 06:58:52 PaulFertser_: is kernel dev still going on ? Oct 10 06:59:29 perhaps it is the "ti_calypso_deep_sleep = never Oct 10 06:59:35 that is in shr... now ?... Oct 10 07:02:08 d1b: yep, we'll have .31 soon Oct 10 07:02:58 d1b: with deep sleep disabled you basically half the standby time. Oct 10 07:04:32 PaulFertser_: that may be why. Oct 10 07:05:21 d1b: just do #1024 fix and change to always... Oct 10 07:06:00 #1024 ? you man flash the firmware ... Oct 10 07:06:09 i did that recently (maybe 2 months ago) Oct 10 07:06:14 d1b: of course no Oct 10 07:07:09 d1b: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024#comment:56 Oct 10 07:07:09 mean* Oct 10 07:08:02 erh i need a hardware mod? Oct 10 07:08:29 i thought this was fixed by a gsm firmware update... Oct 10 07:09:03 nope Oct 10 07:09:26 this isn't (easily) fixable via FW Oct 10 07:09:34 d1b: i gave you all the pointers and refuse to comment any further Oct 10 07:10:02 * PaulFertser_ going to implement #1024 on 2 FRs today or tomorrow Oct 10 07:10:48 the fix I hope ;-P Oct 10 07:11:04 The problem doesn't require any implementation, so yes, the fix :D Oct 10 07:11:32 PaulFertser_: but i should still get 3 days stand bye time without this fix ? Oct 10 07:11:59 yes Oct 10 07:12:15 under ideal conditions Oct 10 07:12:30 d1b: depends on many conditions and usage patterns. You have a coloumb counter, don't you? I think you can rely on it providing you proper current measurements so what are you talking about? Oct 10 07:12:49 PaulFertser_: mm? Oct 10 07:12:53 Oh man Oct 10 07:13:25 im not an electronics guy, i ask my brother about that stuff. Oct 10 07:16:21 d1b: or just look at /sys/class/power_supply/battery Oct 10 07:16:25 Obviously Oct 10 07:17:17 hello all Oct 10 07:17:57 i just wondering about the 1024-bug..i set the calypso-deepsleep to always and suspended it Oct 10 07:18:11 skamster_: you're almost late to the party Oct 10 07:18:16 Surprisingly Oct 10 07:18:26 :) Oct 10 07:18:35 skamster_: we've just discussed it Oct 10 07:18:42 i hear in the mailinglist, some devices doesn't have the bug Oct 10 07:19:03 so i check the things from the mailinglist, but i want to be realy shure.. Oct 10 07:19:17 so? Oct 10 07:19:28 skamster_: we do not have any good statistics. My personal device didn't showed it usually but only after my walk to my workplace. Oct 10 07:20:00 skamster_: i'd say until you implemented the fix, do not use deep sleep, that'd be safe and sane. Oct 10 07:20:16 mmh, ok.. Oct 10 07:20:30 also not, when it wake up after suspend? Oct 10 07:20:41 with deepsleep? Oct 10 07:21:01 skamster_: suspend and deepsleep are unreleted Oct 10 07:21:30 skamster_: it's just that difference between deepsleep and sleep=2 is neglegible when SoC is running and considerable when it's suspended. Oct 10 07:22:09 ok.. Oct 10 07:22:14 also the adaptive thingy for obvious reasons won't work during suspend Oct 10 07:22:36 so i couldn't make a sure test if i've got the bug or not? Oct 10 07:22:46 DocScrutinizer-8: exactly, that's why "never" is a safe choice. Oct 10 07:23:13 skamster_: just change the damn cap to be sure Oct 10 07:23:14 PaulFertser_: well i have it not being able to really last one day. in suspend on the current shr. Oct 10 07:23:19 that's all i know atm :) Oct 10 07:23:54 d1b: are you sure you've got gta02 and not gta01? ;) Oct 10 07:24:05 PaulFertser_: fairly sure ;) , i have wifi Oct 10 07:24:31 DocScrutinizer-8: (linearity of efficiency coefficient of boost converter) i've no idea about it :( Oct 10 07:25:05 d1b: so you definitely do sth wrong Oct 10 07:25:19 PaulFertser_: ? Oct 10 07:25:30 I get >8h with display backlite and irc over gprs Oct 10 07:25:35 i might just put the old shr back on it Oct 10 07:25:51 DocScrutinizer-8: what kernel / distro? Oct 10 07:26:00 d1b: like suspending without issuing proper commands to disable unsolicited replies so you get your device woken up every now and then and then auto-suspending again. Oct 10 07:26:05 shr-U88 Oct 10 07:26:11 u88 ? Oct 10 07:26:39 see chan-topic Oct 10 07:27:22 i think im on that one Oct 10 07:28:12 wait im on the september one. Oct 10 07:28:19 repeated #1024 (when set to adaptive or always) also easily may cause bat drain Oct 10 07:30:57 so you recommend shr-full-glibc-ipk--20090808-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 ok. Oct 10 07:32:50 is this correct? Oct 10 07:33:06 hmm, I thought there wasn't any more full image. no idea. you also may use the lates as of 0906 Oct 10 07:33:07 like ... the url in the topic doesn't exist there anymore :) unless you mean the .tar thingy:) Oct 10 07:33:17 DocScrutinizer-8: well there is . Oct 10 07:35:06 is there an irc channel for gentoo on openmoko, or a mailing list? - the wiki isnt very detailed and I need some detail ... Oct 10 07:36:04 there are some gentoo users around iirc. e.g. Max_posedon Oct 10 07:36:49 DocScrutinizer-8: tkx, will try and contact him later Oct 10 07:37:10 ~seen max_posedon Oct 10 07:37:11 max_posedon was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 16h 31m 18s ago, saying: 'even from 2m high?('. Oct 10 07:45:39 so i take it the changes to shr since the august release (for sept) have caused problems .. maybe.. Oct 10 07:46:56 PaulFertser_: are you sure the current-now readings in gta01 are actually noisy and not simple aliasing on a highly random signal? Oct 10 07:58:15 ehm, couldsomeone tell me where i find the tutorial for the 1024-fix? Oct 10 07:58:25 i didn't found it in the openmoko-wiki Oct 10 07:58:36 (search for 1024) Oct 10 08:10:47 DocScrutinizer-8: perhaps my battery is broken / old now ? Oct 10 08:12:36 d1b: search people.openmoko.org/joerg for a script called bq27k-detail Oct 10 08:13:22 it reads out all the interesting values from batteries coloumb-counter Oct 10 08:13:30 skamster_:http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-May/001192.html Oct 10 08:13:48 you'll need to "opkg install bash" to make it work Oct 10 08:15:26 but I do not find C1009 in the schematics Oct 10 08:16:13 but there is a picture with the added capacitor Oct 10 08:16:19 andi: that's due to the fact I had to remove the whole calypso part from published schem Oct 10 08:16:55 for copyright and NDA reasons Oct 10 08:17:22 DocScrutinizer-8: how can i see how much it is currently charging at tho? Oct 10 08:17:46 open shr-settings,power Oct 10 08:18:10 there you get clear text output of charging current Oct 10 08:18:37 on the component placement I see C1010 but not C1009 Oct 10 08:18:58 DocScrutinizer-8: well in debian it is 1000 and here i can only charge at 500 or 100 Oct 10 08:19:37 sorry, can't comment on this Oct 10 08:20:04 but at least my GTA02v5 now boots without battery (I finally added a 100µF cap), yeah! Oct 10 08:20:28 andi: woohooo Oct 10 08:20:50 DocScrutinizer-8: ok ill revert my shr to the older one . Oct 10 08:22:53 andi: iirc in one of the mails topic 1024 there's an attachment with an excerpt of the calypso schematics Oct 10 08:23:54 andi: and-- you noticed we got searchable comp-plcmnt pdfs now? Oct 10 08:24:08 courtesy lindi-_ Oct 10 08:24:20 yes Oct 10 08:25:03 and I found out that around C1767 there a quite some changes between v5 and v6 Oct 10 08:25:03 and c1009 is missing in there? Oct 10 08:25:12 yes Oct 10 08:25:36 rise a "ticket" about that to lindi please Oct 10 08:25:46 ok Oct 10 08:25:49 it is there Oct 10 08:25:59 I must have been blind Oct 10 08:26:16 that I did not see the mark generated by searching Oct 10 08:26:16 (c1767) that's one of the main reasons for A6 ;-) Oct 10 08:26:17 sorry Oct 10 08:28:35 on A5 C1767 was "up in the air" retrofit Oct 10 08:28:48 iirc Oct 10 08:29:36 and it is 0603 or 0805 Oct 10 08:29:57 andi: was it hard to add c1767? Does it worth it? I've Nikita Youshenko's device which is A5. Oct 10 08:31:26 one side goes to c1706 Oct 10 08:31:55 and you have to take care not to touch c1729 Oct 10 08:32:06 and tp1704 Oct 10 08:32:19 and for the other one I have a short wire Oct 10 08:32:30 so r1767 Oct 10 08:33:23 c1764 was rotated by 90 degrees between 05 and 06 Oct 10 08:34:36 I have taken 587-1963-1-ND Oct 10 08:34:36 CAP CER 100UF 6.3V X5R 1206 Oct 10 08:34:36 from digikey Oct 10 08:34:41 Hm, 100uF under the can... i can't easily obtain 0805 100uF i guess. Oct 10 08:35:24 well, there is empty space on the pcb Oct 10 08:35:43 and c1764 is also 1206 Oct 10 08:35:50 could you put that somewhere on wiki please (maybe just this conversation c&p) Oct 10 08:37:19 ok, I'll do Oct 10 08:37:46 :-) Oct 10 08:39:35 hi Oct 10 08:40:18 moin Oct 10 08:42:41 andi: PaulFertser_: a photo footage is really appreciated too ;-) Oct 10 08:42:50 hi :) Oct 10 08:44:42 I consider to recommend inspection and shorting where due those obnoxious 1uF "0R" on earpiece path as well Oct 10 08:44:45 DocScrutinizer-8: i think i'm not going to perform that, i lack the cap anyway. Oct 10 08:45:36 PaulFertser_: you dumbass, how do you perform buzzfix then ;-) Oct 10 08:45:52 DocScrutinizer-8: i currently having difficulties even testing the buzzfix because i don't think his u-boot will boot my SD and his SD is not very stable Oct 10 08:46:30 DocScrutinizer-8: i use ~ SMD type C capacitor (6.0 mm 3.2 mm) Oct 10 08:46:50 DocScrutinizer-8: and i've only 6 caps for two FRs. buzzfix+bassfix and nothing left. Oct 10 08:47:39 PaulFertser_: you dumbass. you know people who send 100uF all the way to australia ;-) Oct 10 08:48:09 DocScrutinizer-8: yeah. But it takes too much time :D and i don't think booting without a battery is that useful after all ;) Oct 10 08:48:21 k Oct 10 08:48:54 Let me perform other fixes without issues, i'm not a professional soldering guy after all :) Oct 10 08:50:33 I'm increasingly getting to old (esp my eyes) for that kinda messing around Oct 10 08:53:37 Ok, now to the 1024 fix, buzzfix seem to work. Oct 10 08:54:12 PaulFertser_: don't forget to shoot those R3004/5 Oct 10 08:55:46 btw you can probe if those are 0R or 1uF, by simply testing voltage from rec4301 to gnd Oct 10 08:56:40 (should load gsmhandset.state prior to probing ;-) Oct 10 08:56:54 PaulFertser_: digikey sends without shipping costs if you are over 65€, my order took 36h to arrive from us in germany, so I guess shipping to moscow would not take longer Oct 10 08:57:42 over 65 :-o ?? I'm not THAT old ;-P Oct 10 08:58:40 really over 65 euros Oct 10 09:00:41 I wonder why my Konversation does just show nonprintable char, while xchat here on maemo is correct with the € sign Oct 10 09:01:46 and Konversation showns *my* (xchat maemo) € sign just nicely Oct 10 09:03:16 as well as does xchat with my Koncersation euro sign Oct 10 09:03:39 just andis isn't printable on Konversation Oct 10 09:03:53 puzzling Oct 10 09:03:54 DocScrutinizer-8: can dismount time (with great care) 6:30. Oct 10 09:04:14 great Oct 10 09:05:19 here dismount time nonsucceeding with great care ~5:00, then dismount with brute force ~1:00 Oct 10 09:05:41 ;-0 Oct 10 09:13:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02A5_Boot_without_battery Oct 10 09:14:26 no photos yet Oct 10 09:16:01 andi: if that was my device i think i'll follow your route. But given i'm just to perform the most necessary fixes and then give it back i'm ok with components that are easily accessible here. Oct 10 09:18:16 question when i use the ac power charger should it be 500 or 1000 ...ma Oct 10 09:19:00 if it is the original one, then it should be 1000 Oct 10 09:24:15 andi: yes, shr says it is only charging at 500 Oct 10 09:24:21 / the gui says that. Oct 10 09:24:24 PaulFertser_: thats understandable Oct 10 09:31:29 d1b: the gui doesn't say anything wrt that Oct 10 09:32:43 d1b: though I understand and agree the 100-500 slider on shr-settings,power is somewhat confusing (and doesn't work as expected btw) Oct 10 09:35:23 actually all that usb-curlim foo is so messed up it incidentally reached a state where it "just works for me", means it's charging with 1000max even on alien wallwart chargers Oct 10 09:36:39 hi lindi- :-) Oct 10 09:39:35 morning Oct 10 09:42:04 DocScrutinizer-8: yep :) Oct 10 09:43:10 i might go and use debian. as lindi- app works for me.... (i have killed the other alsa states and replaced them with shr's loudspeaker :) ) Oct 10 09:43:30 :X Oct 10 09:44:04 DocScrutinizer-8: it has no auditable ring :) Oct 10 09:44:09 but vibrating works :) Oct 10 09:44:30 mmm apparently i have 6 hours left ... at 93% battery. Oct 10 09:44:44 ah better 43 now Oct 10 09:44:45 I refuse to comment on that, as I don't like to get excited and upset Oct 10 09:45:26 DocScrutinizer-8: well. debian is nice :) i debootstraped that one :) . just didn't have alsa working for me. else i wouldn't be in shr probably heheeh. Oct 10 09:47:36 please stop to pester me with comments of class "oh damn, my diesel doesn't work with ethanol. So finally I found it only needs salad oil to fill into air filter" Oct 10 09:49:05 DocScrutinizer-8: oh, main can is 5x times harder, still working on dismounting properly. Oct 10 09:49:21 sorry. Oct 10 09:49:26 PaulFertser_: see? :-P Oct 10 09:49:37 DocScrutinizer-8: are you a shr dev? Oct 10 09:49:51 nope Oct 10 09:50:05 DocScrutinizer-8: ok . sorry to up set you :) . Oct 10 09:52:26 ~docscrutinizer Oct 10 09:52:27 methinks docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko Oct 10 09:52:57 DocScrutinizer-8: cool. but ... is any more hw being developed. Oct 10 09:53:10 nopr Oct 10 09:53:10 i was so looking forward to a v3 Oct 10 09:53:41 OM stopped development all together afaik Oct 10 09:54:07 DocScrutinizer-8: yeah i heard... Oct 10 09:54:54 DocScrutinizer-8: om provided the gta02... it had bugs / has... fine "buzz fixes" and other issues are kind of annoying. Oct 10 09:55:12 the phone is still more reliable than my old nokia tho. Oct 10 10:00:05 has anybody managed to connect to wifi networks when broadcasting ssid is turned off using wpa_supplicant? Oct 10 10:00:49 I was able to do it only with iwconfig eth0 essid xxx when wpa_supplicant is not running Oct 10 10:01:08 andi: never heard of any success story. Anyway hiding SSID is strongly deprecated generally Oct 10 10:02:28 it introduces additional attack vectors, and makes administration a pita at large Oct 10 10:04:00 why it introduces additional attack vectors compared to the same setting without hiding ssid? Oct 10 10:04:51 I do not speak about using it instead of encryption Oct 10 10:05:57 not exactly sure about all the implications. One point is you are actively broadcasting the name of the AP you intend to connect with then. Another point is a rogue AP more easily can spoof this name when a request comes in Oct 10 10:11:03 andi: actually you are broadcasting the names of *all* hidden-SSID-AP configured on your client Oct 10 10:11:37 "hey, are you FOO?" "maybe BAR?" Oct 10 10:11:38 DocScrutinizer-8: ok, the main can dimounted Oct 10 10:12:23 PaulFertser_: not a real fun, no? Oct 10 10:12:36 DocScrutinizer-8: i know one reasonable case where hidden ssid seems "ok". Oct 10 10:12:39 ok, understand that Oct 10 10:12:58 if you want to make sure people connect only by intention Oct 10 10:13:39 DocScrutinizer-8: imagine someone's leaving in a poor town where wifi APs are quite rare. And bad guys are walking around using their PDAs to scan for networks to find flats/houses with APs assuming that those are good targets for burglary. Oct 10 10:14:28 DocScrutinizer-8: yeah, the main can is really uneasy and unfun to dismount properly. Nokia's much better designed cans. Oct 10 10:14:39 so what then? The AP still sending beacons, just with empty SSID Oct 10 10:15:31 PaulFertser:_ I it takes me also that long Oct 10 10:15:53 andi: main cain takes you ~20 min? heh Oct 10 10:16:04 so whenever I go wardriving, a hidden SSID tells me "noob!!! got target as probably poorly configured" ;-P Oct 10 10:16:31 DocScrutinizer-8: are you sure conventional PDAs show those hidden networks at all? And we're assuming attackers are dumb of course. Oct 10 10:17:46 ooh, I'm really not afraid of attackers too stupid to use airodump. The simply have no means to crack the encryption pw anyway Oct 10 10:19:02 the ones with knowledge to actually attack your WLAN just see an invitation sign in any hidden SSID Oct 10 10:19:44 DocScrutinizer-8: those attackers i'm talking about are too dumb to use any tools for cracking wifi whatsoever. They crack doors open and still your property instead. Oct 10 10:19:58 steal Oct 10 10:20:14 of course hiding SSID will stop the DAU next door to accidentally try to associate to your AP Oct 10 10:20:55 PaulFertser_: aaah, that's a semi-valid scenario Oct 10 10:22:08 or if the neighbour only has a freerunner and the network is wpa encrypted, you will prevent him from connecting Oct 10 10:22:12 I missed the keyword burglary in your initial statement Oct 10 10:22:54 DocScrutinizer-8: this A5 seem to have caps in R3004/3005 places Oct 10 10:23:14 PaulFertser_: so simply short them Oct 10 10:23:26 DocScrutinizer-8: I will, sure Oct 10 10:24:49 PaulFertser_: prepare for complaints the device shoots owners ear ;-P Oct 10 10:26:49 andi: its called kismet. Oct 10 10:26:54 and or mdk. Oct 10 10:27:11 andi: hidden ssid isn't good protectoin except from bad software / hardware :) Oct 10 10:31:24 dlb: yes, I know kismet and that was not the question Oct 10 10:31:32 PaulFertser_: most wlan-tools nowadays show hidden-AP, just with name marked as "" or sth Oct 10 10:32:11 who needs encryption ? ;) you have nothing to hide ;) Oct 10 10:32:42 (my pet hobby is making fake aps in public places and watching people try to connect). Oct 10 10:32:48 / airobase :) Oct 10 10:35:35 hehe, exactly. Next step is to lure in all clients that ask "hey, are you AP-XXX?" Oct 10 10:37:26 DocScrutinizer-8: maybe, but i think cowpatty can now generate a 4 way handshake from 2 parts :) Oct 10 10:37:40 or something like that. Oct 10 10:40:06 ok, if you switch your device into a "I am in a trusted network, I can open all my ports"-mode you can find out interesting things Oct 10 10:40:44 other people can find out interesting things Oct 10 10:48:27 but in all it is not the ap which is unsafe, its the client which wildly connects to everything Oct 10 10:49:34 yup Oct 10 10:50:33 and if you have common (like product names) ssids in your list, you have still good chances to connect to something wron Oct 10 10:51:05 but maybe is the only SSID so widely used that you might consider to calculate a rainbow table for it and crack the passworf in zero time Oct 10 11:13:42 is there any category for all these hw fix things Oct 10 11:13:50 in the wiki Oct 10 11:14:14 for buzz fix, bass fix, 1024 fix and so on? Oct 10 11:23:06 andi: probably not yet. I suggest to create a subcategory hw/reworks_and_mods Oct 10 11:23:21 I'll do Oct 10 11:35:53 mh i again have a corrupted ext2 on my sd card from which i run SHR. anyone else experiencing something like that? Oct 10 11:37:37 Amorphous: seen that with 4gb kingston cards for example Oct 10 11:37:51 look at the list of supported microsd cards in the wiki Oct 10 11:37:57 2gb sandisk card Oct 10 11:38:44 is there a way to check the installed system for consistency, like debsums, just for opkg ? Oct 10 11:40:35 corrupted fs is a non-specific issue, it doesn't usualy relate to particular uSD or sd-storage at all. Start a fsck.ext2 Oct 10 11:41:03 and do not remove bat to shutdown system ;-P Oct 10 11:42:00 DocScrutinizer-8, the problem is that i didn't forcefully shut the system down. and it did not crash either. Oct 10 11:42:20 that's strange then Oct 10 11:42:43 Amorphous: can you run my crcloop module that does CRC checks for all data that is being written and read? Oct 10 11:42:46 this *might* be caused by IO-errors on a "weak" uSD Oct 10 11:43:26 mh i should have checked dmesg before shuting down for fsck Oct 10 11:44:22 lindi-, it uses some space to store the crc or is it something hw specific? Oct 10 11:44:42 Amorphous: checksums are currently in RAM Oct 10 11:44:51 Amorphous: for simplicity and speed Oct 10 11:47:57 btw. the corruption pattern is weird. the kernel on moko doesn't remount ro, i just at some point find some file that has unexpected stats and when i fsck i get flags set on stuff that shouldn't be there (like EXTENTS_FL) Oct 10 11:48:35 lindi-, i would much prefer to run btrfs on it Oct 10 11:49:18 but i don't think i currently have enough time to tinker around Oct 10 11:49:22 Amorphous: can you still test crc too? Oct 10 11:49:33 lindi-, how much work is it? Oct 10 11:50:10 Amorphous: i guess you need small initramfs to set it up so that you can have rootfs on top of it Oct 10 11:50:21 Amorphous: if you want to have it on non-rootfs then it's bit easier Oct 10 11:50:54 sounds like too much work. it's my rootfs. Oct 10 11:53:11 mh interesting the file that was botched ( /sbin/ldconfig ) seems to be fine now Oct 10 11:54:16 is there some way to check that all files under control of opkg are correct? Oct 10 11:55:04 with the 4gb kingston cards I had messages like /etc/init.d/rcS not readable on booting Oct 10 11:55:15 and then booting again -> everything fine Oct 10 11:57:08 yea something like that could actually happen from the failures that i saw Oct 10 12:05:58 are sd cards really so unreliably or does the om hardware or our software suck? Oct 10 12:07:12 anyone using pimd-utils-contacts? i have a little problem with editing the fields from a contact. as soon as i try to add more than one field i get an exception that there is no backend which can store this field. but in opimd-config i set the backend for contacts to SQLite Oct 10 12:07:22 pimd=opimd :) Oct 10 12:13:00 *sigh* just again had a problem that needed an fsck :( Oct 10 12:13:24 but dmesg said nothing Oct 10 12:14:19 about any errors, in fact it there were no new messages after i connected per usb Oct 10 12:15:40 is there some agreement which sd card is the most reliable? the wiki page doesn't say anything about that. Oct 10 12:16:49 i use my 8gb sd card for over a year and had never any problems with it in my neo. seems to differ a lot between the models Oct 10 12:18:31 Fox_Muldr, which vendor from? Oct 10 12:18:48 Amorphous: i have a 2gb scandisk that works nicely :) (as well) Oct 10 12:18:57 however, im keeping most files in git :) Oct 10 12:19:17 sandisk Oct 10 12:19:47 :( Oct 10 12:20:07 SanDisk MicroSDHC Ultra II 8GB Oct 10 12:20:16 to be exact :) Oct 10 12:22:35 oooh the one i currently use is not a sd card labeled by sandisk, but by cnmemory Oct 10 12:23:43 the one i currently don't use is from sandisk :) Oct 10 12:24:01 i only use sandisk cards for every device i got because i never got problems with these manufacturer Oct 10 12:27:40 yea i'll also replace the usb sd card reader that came with the cnmemory card, it was also acting up Oct 10 12:45:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r57cd6710a064 10/fsogsmd/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.ListPhonebooks() Oct 10 12:56:39 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r823dbfc6c0d2 10/libfsobasics/fsobasics/logger.vala: Oct 10 12:56:39 freesmartphone.org: libfsobasics: logger: return true for debug/info/warning/error/critical, so that we can use it embedded in calls to 'assert' Oct 10 12:56:39 freesmartphone.org: this is version 0.8.3.1 Oct 10 12:57:12 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r83d3a548f34f 10/libfsobasics/configure.ac: libfsobasics: post-release version bump Oct 10 13:18:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r4c5d07ef56c5 10/misc-vapi/ (Makefile.am configure.ac): misc-vapi: install a .pc file for detection convenience Oct 10 13:38:51 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re99817a60298 10/libfsobasics/configure.ac: libfsobasics: use pkgconfig to check for misc-vapi Oct 10 13:38:52 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r19b4d33a4cb0 10/libfsotransport/configure.ac: libfsotransport: use pkgconfig to check for misc-vapi Oct 10 13:38:53 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r3eb81b80f1fa 10/libfsoframework/configure.ac: libfsoframework: use pkgconfig to check for misc-vapi Oct 10 14:55:55 anyone here use a keyboard with their freerunner? Oct 10 14:56:03 a usb keyboard Oct 10 14:56:26 would the device instantly detect the keyboard if i attach it? Oct 10 14:58:09 astrocub: you have to switch to device mode Oct 10 14:58:30 astrocub: then plugin the keyboard and if you have all necessary modules it starts working Oct 10 14:58:41 radekp: no, he has to switch to host mode Oct 10 14:59:44 right - sorry for confusion Oct 10 15:06:54 would i be able to type into a text editor to keep track of notes while on the go? Oct 10 15:07:04 astrocub: sure Oct 10 15:07:20 oh that's fantastic Oct 10 15:07:27 how is it as a phone? Oct 10 15:07:42 i've heard it's unreliable, but i don't understand why that would be so Oct 10 15:08:03 astrocub: the proprietary OS that handles GSM stuff has bugs we can't fix Oct 10 15:09:28 lindi-: there's proprietary software on the phone or are you talking about something else? Oct 10 15:10:00 astrocub: there's a separate ARM processor to handle the GSM stuff Oct 10 15:10:20 what are some bugs? i don't understand Oct 10 15:10:46 what about using the phone to connect to a wifi signal in-home and place voip calls? Oct 10 15:11:51 * astrocub was planning on switching phone service since verizon doesn't handle gsm stuff, but now i'm a little worried if i should just keep my cheap $10/month plan Oct 10 15:12:31 $120/yr isn't much, but i would like to keep it if possible Oct 10 15:12:43 anyone use their freerunner for all phone usage? Oct 10 15:13:02 all cell phone usage * Oct 10 15:13:17 astrocub: i list some bugs in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Lindi Oct 10 15:13:45 astrocub: wifi works about as reliably as it does on laptops Oct 10 15:14:07 it's the gsm which has trouble then.. Oct 10 15:14:37 astrocub: yep Oct 10 15:15:00 astrocub: numerous different issues Oct 10 15:15:30 lindi-: do you have an estimated percentage or could you form one quickly of how often you can place phone calls using gsm? Oct 10 15:16:25 astrocub: I have a watchdog that will restart the GSM related hardware if it detects that things are not working Oct 10 15:16:41 e.g. able to place calls 30% while 70% of the time not able to place calls Oct 10 15:16:52 astrocub: depends on whether you use gprs :) Oct 10 15:16:53 oh, well then i suppose that makes it difficult to estimate Oct 10 15:17:03 gprs is the watchdog? Oct 10 15:17:19 nope Oct 10 15:17:29 astrocub: GPRS is a standard for sending IP traffic in GSM network Oct 10 15:19:00 so without gprs, 30% success rate? Oct 10 15:19:32 astrocub: it's lot better than that :) Oct 10 15:19:40 60% then? Oct 10 15:20:04 astrocub: i tried to measure it with automated calls from my voip provider but it turned out that my voip provider is not reliable enough :) Oct 10 15:20:42 astrocub: besides, calling out is not a problem, you can always restart the gsm hardware and try again. Oct 10 15:20:44 can't you just use something like asterisk + google voice for home-usage, i bet that would be reliable enough Oct 10 15:20:48 astrocub: what matters is receiving calls Oct 10 15:21:07 astrocub: well the local voip provider is less reliable than GSM :) Oct 10 15:21:24 for that I have numbers somewhere, wait :) Oct 10 15:21:27 oh, i wonder how that would work exactly... receiving calls via voip Oct 10 15:23:44 google voice can redirect the calls to your gsm and your asterisk #, but i don't know if it would be technically voip since it would need some land line number to reach asterisk, it would voip with landlines involved i suppose. Oct 10 15:24:55 astrocub: how do you wake the phone from suspend to receive the call? Oct 10 15:25:15 i haven't a clue Oct 10 15:25:27 don't suspend it Oct 10 15:26:27 astrocub: you need to suspend it or the battery will run out in 12 hours Oct 10 15:26:55 astrocub: see http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/saunalahti-voip/avail.cgi.html for availability statistics of my voip provider Oct 10 15:29:22 lindi-: not a big deal, i'm not gone for 12 hours from the house, and while it's here i can just charge it. i don't have to let it run all the way down before charging, right? Oct 10 15:30:03 astrocub: ok in that setting it will work. however, freerunner does not have the CPU power needed to do echo cancellation for voip Oct 10 15:30:03 while on trips, i will have to rely on receiving calls through gsm Oct 10 15:30:14 astrocub: so you need a headset to cancel echo Oct 10 15:30:16 does the gsm have to enable gprs for freerunner to work? Oct 10 15:30:28 astrocub: no, gprs is totaly optional of course Oct 10 15:30:52 thank you for this advice: 10:26:06 lindi- | astrocub: so you need a headset to cancel echo Oct 10 15:31:18 astrocub: or you need to write some optimized echo cancellation algorithm :) Oct 10 15:32:01 thanks for the link, that's very interesting Oct 10 15:32:15 okay, i'm afk for a little bit, i really can't thank you enough lindi- for your helpful advice Oct 10 15:32:30 and radekp, thanks as well :) Oct 10 15:39:44 astrocub: np :) Oct 10 16:04:40 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rb27c2f9899e8 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/opimd.py: opimd: init phone-utils earlier. Fixes wrong comparition values for phone numbers in contacts loaded at boot. Oct 10 16:13:30 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rec50832f66cb 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/docs/TODO: opimd: update TODO Oct 10 16:29:09 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rafd0df8d916c 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): misc-vapi: add .pc.in file Oct 10 16:43:24 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * re3c8babea9a8 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): document parameter structs used in org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network* and org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM* Oct 10 16:43:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libfso-glib * r948b6e35eb07 10/src/ (5 files): regen Oct 10 16:52:11 hi all Oct 10 16:52:25 is there a way to implement shake to wake the omoko from standby? Oct 10 16:53:31 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb47e2c46efbc 10/fsogsmd/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: integrate PlusCOPS_Test() into PlusCOPS(), use autgenerated NetworkProvider struct from specs Oct 10 16:54:43 yes. support for this will be added to FSO at some point, but for now you can realize this by setting accel wakeup threshhold to a large value and then suspending Oct 10 16:55:19 mickey|bbl: can you give me some hint on where to look for papers? Oct 10 16:55:22 on the website? Oct 10 16:55:39 there's a whole wiki page about the accelerometrs Oct 10 17:01:38 Funny thing, today is the first day i found gta02 has a way to lock the sim in place. Oct 10 17:21:21 WRT54G Oct 10 17:21:32 Bah, sorry, wrong channel Oct 10 18:22:35 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9b68dd081f5a 10/fsogsmd/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: start w/ phonebook reading Oct 10 19:06:55 lindi-, or whoever can answer: do i need to check around to see which wireless companies provide gprs with their gsm service? Oct 10 19:07:58 or would i be using any gsm tower nearby, regardless who owns it? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 10 19:46:08 2009 Oct 10 19:57:41 objorn: where do you live? Oct 10 19:59:15 usa Oct 10 20:01:14 lindi-: ^ Oct 10 20:01:30 objorn: well in general you need to have a data contract with your provider Oct 10 20:02:01 what am i looking for in this contract specific to freerunner? Oct 10 20:02:28 suppose it's what i'm willing to pay for really Oct 10 20:02:44 i'm guessing i would pay more to use just any gsm tower Oct 10 20:02:55 not really sure if this is how it typically works Oct 10 20:04:01 objorn: i have no idea what terminology they might use in usa Oct 10 20:06:25 objorn: but freerunner is just a regular GSM device that can do GPRS Oct 10 20:07:25 one which tends to have less qualms with gprs then regular gsm? Oct 10 20:08:32 objorn: regular gsm? Oct 10 20:09:17 lindi-: (usa terminology) lol Oct 10 20:18:54 lindi-: guessing i need to read up more on gsm Oct 10 21:14:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erdl6Lz6fGo wtf neo1973 is faster than the freerunner?? Oct 10 21:15:41 In some cases yes. Oct 10 21:15:53 The graphics accellerator is usually a wash. Oct 10 21:15:59 It's not always that good. Oct 10 21:17:28 will it better with kdrive or kms? Oct 10 21:17:57 I don't know. Oct 10 21:18:17 The fundamental problem is that the accellerator chip is sitting on a 7 megabyte/second bus. Oct 10 21:18:31 And it's not that great in the first place. Oct 10 21:19:03 the neo1973 has _much_ faster access to raw framebuffer than that, if you're not doing stuff the accellerator chip accelelrates Oct 10 21:20:33 ok ok thants not nice! but on the other hand we need a good looking giu to get more users Oct 10 21:21:18 Well - yes. Oct 10 21:21:41 But the choice of chip was unfortunate. Oct 10 21:22:20 to the extent that leaving it out and just connecting the LCD directly to the framebuffer would have been considerably faster - given the faster processor in the FR Oct 10 21:23:13 like directfb? Oct 10 21:23:22 No. Oct 10 21:23:25 The hardware. Oct 10 21:23:56 At the moment, the graphics card is basically a state of the art 1994 one, on the equivalent of a 16 bit ISA bus. Oct 10 21:24:09 yes, it's accellerated. Oct 10 21:24:27 but the bus is so slow that the accelleration you get is often negated by that. Oct 10 21:25:00 The CPU also supports a directly connected LCD - but with no accelleraiton at all. But you could write to the framebuffer at ~100MB/s not 6. Oct 10 21:25:05 but is this really a proplem to bilud an nice looking gui for phone apps Oct 10 21:25:19 I don't think so. Oct 10 21:25:36 I don't think the original neo1973 hardware had fundamental problems that way Oct 10 21:30:41 iam not a programmer! only a user! with shr-u in daily use! its really nice but it must be better Oct 10 21:48:34 good night Oct 11 00:53:28 32G in your FR! http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.27001 Oct 11 02:04:35 i want this: http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/06/16/iconnect-ipodiphone-dock-media-keyboard-ipod-iphone-sync-charge-illuminated-keyboard/ Oct 11 02:05:13 except i want the dock to be on the top-middle of the keyboard, and i want it to be for the freerunner :) Oct 11 02:05:37 i also want it to be smaller Oct 11 02:05:54 about the size of the netbook keyboards Oct 11 02:15:55 that might work: http://www.amazon.com/Hewlett-Packard-Foldable-Keyboard-HP/dp/B000CD0U9G/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1255227315&sr=1-33 Oct 11 02:16:54 a little cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/Compaq-PA840U-Stowaway-Portable-Keyboard/dp/B00005AMDE/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_1 Oct 11 02:17:46 even cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/Palm-3169WW-Universal-Wireless-Keyboard/dp/B0003V577C/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_3 Oct 11 02:18:06 wonder if the phone dock is included on the last one Oct 11 02:19:15 freerunner doesn't have infrared though **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 11 02:59:56 2009