**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 17 02:59:58 2009 Oct 17 03:00:13 KenYoung: I've given up on a handheld+phone. Oct 17 03:00:30 luke-jr, No me! Oct 17 03:00:31 now I'm only looking for a phone to pair with OpenPandora Oct 17 03:00:53 so basically it just needs to reliably do data+calls+bluetooth Oct 17 03:01:30 luke-jr, I know nothing about OpenPandora - what do you find attactive about it? Oct 17 03:02:20 KenYoung: it seems to be usable? Oct 17 03:02:32 256 MB RAM is my minimum Oct 17 03:02:36 a decent keyboard Oct 17 03:03:30 luke-jr, Doesn't the "decent keyboard" requirement force you to go with something netbook sized? Oct 17 03:03:36 KenYoung: no. Oct 17 03:03:47 my Zaurus SL-C760 had a great keyboard Oct 17 03:04:01 I'll have to google that... Oct 17 03:04:08 http://www.brighthand.com/images/Sharp_Zaurus_R_1_L.jpg Oct 17 03:06:24 luke-jr, Well, to each his own, but unless the keyboard is wide enough that I can type they same way I do on a full sized keyboard, I'd just as soon type on a really small cellphone one, since I won't be typing quickly anyway. Oct 17 03:06:56 you assume the way you type on a full sized keyboard is the only fast method Oct 17 03:07:12 using a keyboard like the Zaurus one is entirely different, but still fast and comfortable Oct 17 03:07:21 keep in mind you need to hold it while you type ;) Oct 17 03:08:51 luke-jr, Well, maybe so. I just think that a small keyboard does not allow resting the wrists comfortably, ans having the fingers operate at something like the separation they have when your hand is completely relaxed. Oct 17 03:09:44 Of course, my argument is hampered a bit by all the typos I make typing here, at home, with my full size keyboard. Oct 17 03:10:22 handhelds are used without a surface usually :p Oct 17 03:12:25 For handhelds, I like the idea of no keyboard, just a display with as many pixels as possible. Oct 17 03:13:07 I don't. Oct 17 03:13:32 can't write code w/ a touchscreen Oct 17 03:14:09 You actually code on a handheld? Oct 17 03:14:59 used to, a bit Oct 17 03:15:07 Zaurus battery is no longer usable Oct 17 03:15:15 nothing on the market to replace it Oct 17 03:15:21 I bow before you. You are a better geek than I am. Oct 17 03:15:31 like I said, it was a very good keyboard Oct 17 04:11:00 sl6000 has a good k/b too :P Oct 17 05:05:52 Undrwater: I hear the new one has a crappy kb tho :/ Oct 17 05:06:13 the one that's like a netbook? Oct 17 05:11:31 yeah, it's a bit larger Oct 17 05:11:57 not easily pocketable :) Oct 17 05:14:24 I wonder what OpenMoko Inc is doing now that they've finished that lame wiki reader thing Oct 17 05:14:38 maybe they could be convinced to add a phone to OpenPandora's specs Oct 17 05:16:11 the wiki reader isn't a lame thing from the perspective of a person who provides tech to schools Oct 17 05:16:40 schools have PCs Oct 17 05:16:44 meh Oct 17 05:16:50 pc's are not portable Oct 17 05:16:51 OpenPandora apparently didn't release CAD/PCBs :/ Oct 17 05:17:01 Undrwater: nor do they need to be Oct 17 05:17:16 besides, Wikipedia is too propagandized to be in schools Oct 17 05:17:48 everything is propagandized :) wikipedia is a great secondary research tool Oct 17 05:19:54 or even primary for non-critical research... Oct 17 05:22:01 maybe OpenMoko and OpenPandora companies should merge so they can combine concepts Oct 17 05:22:03 <.< Oct 17 05:22:37 not much to merge i think :) Oct 17 05:22:46 just a couple'a guys? Oct 17 05:24:24 yeah, but OpenPandora isn't willing to release CAD files Oct 17 05:24:27 luke-jr: wikireader might not be that lame :) Oct 17 05:25:02 so short of a merge, I don't see a combined device happening Oct 17 05:25:41 not likely Oct 17 05:26:15 i'd love to see sharp throw zaurus to the wild :) Oct 17 05:26:22 hehe Oct 17 05:26:26 especially that nice keyboard Oct 17 05:26:38 yay dedicated tab key Oct 17 05:27:23 * luke-jr sortof wishes he lived in an era with fab-on-demand Oct 17 05:50:40 prolly in Hawaii Oct 17 05:51:39 they are letting the community try their hand at building hardware Oct 17 06:06:59 d Oct 17 06:07:04 e Oct 17 06:07:07 fab-on-dewmand? Oct 17 06:08:58 SpeedEvil: you upload a CAD and pay $, they send you a device Oct 17 06:09:04 think print-on-demand books Oct 17 06:09:51 luke-jr: everywhere has that. Oct 17 06:10:05 SpeedEvil: everywhere has fab-on-demand? Oct 17 06:10:15 oh, I forgot to mention: quantity of 1 Oct 17 06:10:16 luke-jr: shipping is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the cost Oct 17 06:10:58 SpeedEvil: so? Oct 17 06:11:29 Oh Oct 17 06:11:39 I misread era for area Oct 17 06:12:07 ah Oct 17 06:12:38 Also - same thing sort of applies - even with free immediate fab - you'd still need several versions to get it working Oct 17 06:13:01 SpeedEvil: it doesn't need to be immediate, just affordable Oct 17 06:14:30 print-on-demand accomplishes this by not making any profits on prototyping Oct 17 06:14:44 only when you go into production and make your own profit Oct 17 06:14:57 sunglass like display seems to be available: http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_wrap310.html (but I guess there is no way to use it with Neo FreeRunner (or Neo 1973) ?) Oct 17 06:15:54 I assume you know the cost of making a single FR would greatly exceed the price? (now) - even neglecting that it wouldn't work if you're making a first of a design? Oct 17 06:16:35 aloril: probably not - USB1->VGA adaptors don't exist that I've seen Oct 17 06:18:53 But yes, star-trek type replication would be cool. Oct 17 06:20:42 anything else available that has composite video, VGA or HDMI and is running Linux with terminal available and ability to install your own programs and also can act as a phone? Oct 17 06:21:25 laptop with gsm modem Oct 17 06:21:44 but gta02 core isnt making a "first product are they? Oct 17 06:34:26 aloril: n900 Oct 17 06:34:43 though only sorta-available Oct 17 06:35:00 beagleboard with a GSM stick plugged in Oct 17 06:36:37 SpeedEvil, Nokia is scheduling "N900 meetups" at their stores on Oct 30, so the darn thing should be available by then. Oct 17 06:37:34 http://yannramin.com/2009/10/16/the-wikireader-cool-device-future-hackability/ Oct 17 06:37:45 KenYoung: not heard that Oct 17 06:40:43 SpeedEvil, http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/n900meetup/ Oct 17 06:42:53 wow Oct 17 06:42:55 they used forth Oct 17 06:43:08 haven't played with that since my days with Sun Oct 17 06:43:26 may or may not be simply firmware test. Oct 17 06:43:29 interesting tho Oct 17 06:46:16 not mentioning about phone aspect much, just "Ring tones: .wav, .mp3, .AAC, .eAAC, .wma, .m4a" at http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ Oct 17 06:47:20 It does calls too. Oct 17 06:47:27 With skype integrated too Oct 17 06:48:04 skype ftk Oct 17 06:48:05 ftl* Oct 17 06:49:26 oh, it does mention in http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ page Oct 17 06:49:32 yes Oct 17 06:52:06 It always seemed crazy that they didn't drop a GSM module into their 800 series tablets. With the volume Nokia does, a GSM module probably costs about 5 cents. Oct 17 06:55:07 hmm.. one usb port, so either twiddler using bluetooth somehow, or use internal keyboard when using some other usb gadget (I guess USB hubs always need external power) Oct 17 06:55:34 no USB host mode - perhaps. Oct 17 06:55:59 It may not even work with external cable+powered hub Oct 17 07:01:17 just says "Micro-USB connector, High-Speed USB 2.0" Oct 17 07:21:14 doesn't look like anybody has yet actually tried wrap 310 yet Oct 17 08:23:24 indeed, no host mode: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html Oct 17 08:25:39 DocScrutinizer: ^^^ Oct 17 08:26:44 maybe just use N900 screen/keyboard blindly inside suitable bag/case at hip Oct 17 08:29:45 What a stupidity. To sucrifice functionality just to pass usb certification. Why the hell couldn't they just not care about the certification: the worst outcome would be not placing usb logo on the package. Oct 17 08:35:23 minimum software modification: show where your finger is in screen (when N900 is beside hip and you are using it 'blindly') Oct 17 08:35:44 and maybe some mode/font changes to work with lower resolution of wrap 310 Oct 17 10:27:25 duh Oct 17 10:34:42 PaulFertser: I discussed that with a few other people and it seems not even Nokia (those guys) does exactly understand what's the implications. On #maemo somebody claimed 5 hw-devels insisted in impossibility of having fastcharge and usb-hostmode on same connector :-O Oct 17 10:36:14 The few hw-devish mails I've seen on the issue do not convince me that it's not possible to simply set bit 47 to enable host-mode and use an external PS Oct 17 10:36:18 of course OTG has some weird requirements wrt hw. But a mere manual switching between host and device should be possible, as it is on N810 Oct 17 10:36:19 DocScrutinizer-8: probably that was artificial restriction by usb consortcium Oct 17 10:36:43 SpeedEvil: exactly Oct 17 10:36:44 They seem to either misunderstand or misrepresent the hardware issues. Oct 17 10:37:06 And of course people without an actual clue can't evaluate this. Oct 17 10:37:18 SpeedEvil: exactly Oct 17 10:37:46 I still see opportunity for a job for me :-P Oct 17 10:38:24 good luck. :) Oct 17 10:38:46 SpeedEvil: even gta02 has an integrated converter to power external devices, having to use an additional PS sounds unfancy. Oct 17 10:39:16 SpeedEvil: I guess #47 was a random number ;-) Oct 17 10:39:37 Sure - but if the decision was taken - as the mails seem to imply - to change the connector - that would have been a logical time to drop the PSU Oct 17 10:39:39 yes Oct 17 10:40:08 PaulFertser: but I guess that's exactly what they did: remove the powersupply circuitry Oct 17 10:40:56 DocScrutinizer-8: i don't know about omap but probably you'd also need to use external 22k (or whatever) pulldowns... Oct 17 10:41:01 Highly suboptimal Oct 17 10:41:53 PaulFertser: possibly Oct 17 10:42:39 though afaik the OTG ready IF of SoC knows how to do that internally Oct 17 10:43:32 but the OTG/USB2 charging supplement is really insane Oct 17 10:43:59 and impossibly to meet with standard OTG IF of SoC Oct 17 10:44:36 so I guess they binned the whole OTG (incl hostmode) for the charging done traditional way Oct 17 10:44:54 you mean you need to detect shorted Ds? Oct 17 10:45:03 not only Oct 17 10:45:22 the more hard thing is the rampup of power drawn Oct 17 10:45:30 or is there some wacky way to detect max current based on vdrop? Oct 17 10:45:37 and detect sourceZ of PSU Oct 17 10:45:45 yah Oct 17 10:45:52 exactly Oct 17 10:46:00 that's going to require PMU hackery Oct 17 10:46:01 SoC can't do that Oct 17 10:46:12 yep Oct 17 10:46:15 :-S Oct 17 10:46:30 so probably they simply overreacted Oct 17 10:46:33 Why they couldn't just have mandated a $0.5 'I am a charger' chip... Oct 17 10:47:07 (the usb-if people) Oct 17 10:47:25 Europe and China require mandatory usb-charging Oct 17 10:47:51 (usb-freaks) they are insane Oct 17 10:49:58 still I think it's not mutually exclusive (physically) to meet simple charging over USB and a *non*OTG hostmode - even with power Oct 17 10:50:12 and OTG is *not* mandatory Oct 17 10:50:35 USB2 charger supplement isn't as well, afaik Oct 17 10:51:22 There is also the suggestion I made _way_ back. Oct 17 10:51:38 charger has a hub chip in it, and a couple of ports on the top Oct 17 10:51:51 probably Nokia just didn't realize all the woes are just from charging at >500mA Oct 17 10:52:03 Yeah. Oct 17 10:52:16 It's easy to get the wrong answer if you ask the wrong question Oct 17 10:52:38 see "FR burns on charging N900" from lindi- Oct 17 10:53:09 I read that as 'inductor chosen wrong' Oct 17 10:53:32 so to summarize: seems they messed it up much worse than we did :-P Oct 17 10:53:53 Well - they have working software at launch :/ Oct 17 10:54:14 But the OM hardware was never the major issue Oct 17 10:54:30 SpeedEvil: (inductor) nah, there was simply *nothing* wrong. All a bogus report Oct 17 10:55:02 It diddn't in fact get hot? Oct 17 10:55:17 it did, as it's supposed to Oct 17 10:55:49 ah Oct 17 10:55:53 AAT1275 overcurrent protection is by mere overheeat switchdown at ~125C Oct 17 10:55:58 http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220601177&cid=NL_eet interesting. new display Oct 17 10:57:13 * PaulFertser wonders how Werner managed to solder QFN for his integrated debug board Oct 17 10:57:27 and 125C with a decent thermal coupling to the board will get hot Oct 17 10:57:31 ask him ;-) Oct 17 10:57:34 you can dead bug it Oct 17 10:57:41 yep Oct 17 10:57:46 it's not entirely fun. Oct 17 10:58:07 hmm, nnot that big an issue Oct 17 10:59:15 the thermal resistance to other components from die of aat1275 is high enough for that scheme to be ugly but safe Oct 17 11:00:23 SpeedEvil: QFN-28, 0.5mm pitch is not exactly fun to dead-bug. And he didn't, he made good pcbs with thermo-laser method and soldered directly. Oct 17 11:01:05 but I agree kernel had the damn duty to survey that and tear down hostmode power on sensing overload Oct 17 11:05:13 the pitty is SHR is drifting away from fixing basic things or kernel bugs every day even further, it seem Oct 17 11:05:15 s Oct 17 11:06:08 DocScrutinizer-8: interesting thing is that i heard n900 just passed usb conformance tests Oct 17 11:06:17 that's reason why FR, SHR, and basically OM almost lost me entirely Oct 17 11:06:21 DocScrutinizer-8: (aat1275) if overtemp protection kicked in, it would turn off charging completely until it cooled. Oct 17 11:06:52 PaulFertser: which happens in ms rather than sec Oct 17 11:07:16 DocScrutinizer-8: hm, possibly so Oct 17 11:07:28 the die is sub-mm^2 and mg Oct 17 11:08:18 DocScrutinizer-8: you could simulate that at home and use 'scope to actually see what's happening. Oct 17 11:08:38 they even have some debouncing in PMU for same scheme, iirc 62 ms Oct 17 11:09:38 paul_bipless: I could, but honestly I'm not interested, as I have no unanswered questions wrt the issue Oct 17 11:09:51 DocScrutinizer-8: ok. Oct 17 11:10:08 DocScrutinizer-8: (kernel bugs) if you have something specific in mind, i'm ready to file a ticket. Oct 17 11:10:18 ok Oct 17 11:10:28 wait a minute Oct 17 11:13:05 PaulFertser: kernel SHALL disable usb-power (U4904:2 EN_USBHOST) on detecting /USB_FLT (U4904:7) Oct 17 11:13:34 DocScrutinizer: yes, i was investigating that atm. Seems we get hardware in place. Oct 17 11:13:48 (ok, was 3 minutes. Almost) Oct 17 11:14:51 sure we got, what do you think I am? An idiot? ;-P Oct 17 11:17:21 the nasty part is all those functions never were tested, neither in standard kerner nor even at fab in QC Oct 17 11:18:11 to be honest the fab QC barely even tests all the STANDARD functions of device Oct 17 11:19:05 DocScrutinizer: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2314 Oct 17 11:19:09 a broken solder point on e.g U4904:7 would go completely unnoticed Oct 17 11:19:55 PaulFertser: cool :-) Oct 17 11:23:55 lindy could mark his "overheat" ticket as a dup of this one Oct 17 11:24:23 DocScrutinizer-8: i can't, no permissions Oct 17 11:24:30 lindi-: want me to do that? Oct 17 11:24:34 oh, Oct 17 11:24:38 k Oct 17 11:30:31 lindi-: stupid trac allows me to close it as a duplicate but i can not find a way to specify the ticket it's considered to be a duplicate of. Oct 17 11:30:43 please don't close it :) Oct 17 11:30:54 a basic word on hw: I'm checking (and debugging) the hw for way longer than a year now, and I didn't find the "selfdestruction mechanism" of FR yet Oct 17 11:30:59 (as i have no permission to reopen either :P) Oct 17 11:31:45 afaik it's already closed Oct 17 11:32:37 and now we got the new more specific ticket, so it doesn't really matter Oct 17 11:34:28 DocScrutinizer: set SoC core voltage to 67? Oct 17 11:34:32 * DocScrutinizer-8 wonders why reopen isn't standard permission for users that may open tickets Oct 17 11:35:29 SpeedEvil: I don't think that will fly, but ok, I'll have a look into it Oct 17 11:36:14 Well - tehre looked - on the limited stuff I looked at for gta01 to be the possibility of setting voltage levels well beyound the specified limits. Oct 17 11:36:24 But this is more a 'don't do that then' Oct 17 11:37:11 still I'm curious Oct 17 11:37:48 had to study SoC AMR though Oct 17 11:37:50 waaah Oct 17 11:38:18 PMU volt range is easy, compared to that Oct 17 11:41:14 DocScrutinizer-8: /me wonders why the hell everything about OM is so damn late :( Hardware bugs are found after > 5000 units already deployed, kernel goes upstream after > 2 years of development, we get permission to close tickets after OM-the-company goes out of business etc etc. Just about everything is late. Oct 17 11:41:53 yep Oct 17 11:42:08 no idea Oct 17 11:43:03 I do wonder what'd have happened if a push for gta01 hardware bugfixed slightly for xmas 2007 and a modified 2007.3 stack'd had happened. Oct 17 11:43:07 It's more like it frustrates me than makes me curious to know the reason. Oct 17 11:43:41 basically I guess that's because a entrepreneur starting a business need different capabilities than a manager running same business Oct 17 11:44:11 Aha, for proper duplicates management trac needs an additional plugin (http://trac-hacks.org/svn/tracdupplugin/0.11/README). OM should have used plain old bugzilla :-/ Oct 17 11:47:54 pester roh ;-) maybe he likes to migrate :-P Oct 17 11:54:08 DocScrutinizer-8: no way he'll do that. Too much of a hassle. Oct 17 11:54:40 that's what the emoticons say ;-) Oct 17 11:55:09 but maybe he installs that plugin Oct 17 11:55:52 DocScrutinizer-8: http://pyneo.org/t/battery.per.jpg <-- another pregnant gta01 battery Oct 17 11:55:55 :-/ Oct 17 11:56:01 duh Oct 17 11:56:31 yoh, nasty Oct 17 11:57:07 DocScrutinizer-8: there should be a reason for that many reports about that shit :/ Oct 17 11:57:10 well, deep discharge is death of bat Oct 17 11:57:44 some copper needles build up and short the electrodes. Oct 17 11:57:57 on next charge it will go booof Oct 17 11:59:04 on gta01 it's much easier to accidentally deep discharge bat - without even noticing Oct 17 11:59:14 DocScrutinizer-8: the question is how the hell it got deeply discharge. Though on gta01 it's easy because calypso can remain powered when you think device is off. Oct 17 11:59:36 Heh, exactly :) Oct 17 11:59:42 that's what I say Oct 17 12:00:49 Not the first time we say the same :D Oct 17 12:01:25 so basically there's no "right" way to store the 01 device correctly for extended periods. Best bet is to remove bat after charging though Oct 17 12:02:13 gta02 is magnitudes better on that Oct 17 12:03:20 still you should remove bat (and charge prior to that) for extended (like weeks) non-usage of device... ANY device Oct 17 12:04:35 you shouldn't expect Neo to be better wrt that, than any other cellphone or arbitrary electronic device Oct 17 12:04:47 or discharge to 40%, remove bat, place in fridge Oct 17 12:05:17 75% is recommended value (though 40 is ok as well). Oct 17 12:06:01 and in fridge you should place bat in a sealed plastic bag, with some silicagel Oct 17 12:06:29 and not cool down below 5C Oct 17 12:08:21 nevertheless even then bat need as trickle charge every few months - it's a pita Oct 17 12:09:29 I don't see why not. Oct 17 12:09:46 Every cell datasheet I've found lists storage at -20C as fine Oct 17 12:11:01 well, that's what I gathered from plenty of different sources Oct 17 12:11:25 I've seen the 5C in other places too - I see no rationale for it. Oct 17 12:11:44 Other than the fact that you shouldn't freeze the cells electrolyte - but that doesn't happen at 0C Oct 17 12:12:03 low temp might not harm cell immediately, but for caring storage temp should be around 10C Oct 17 12:12:27 I've never seen that spec on any cell datasheet Oct 17 12:12:28 dunno why Oct 17 12:12:43 just storage -20 to 40, with a note that high temp storage affects life Oct 17 12:12:47 that's not from datasheets Oct 17 12:13:33 more like german c't articles etc Oct 17 12:14:03 There is so much crap talked about batteries it's hard to work out what's true. Oct 17 12:14:16 yep Oct 17 12:14:55 but usually you can tell from the whole source how competent the auther has been Oct 17 12:16:14 But even with care, it's easy to include stuff that 'everyone knows'. Oct 17 12:16:32 memory, forex Oct 17 13:00:12 which distro are you using, DocScrutinizer-8? Oct 17 13:02:11 shr-U0808 Oct 17 13:07:07 is anyone working on a button(s)-->event manager? Oct 17 13:07:12 in shr I mean Oct 17 13:08:27 the poor usability is reaaaaaaaaally getting to me Oct 17 14:02:37 hmm? "some Nokia reps at an event later that evening and Nokia was boasting about the device having USB hosting capabilities and can serve as a miniaturized personal computer." http://pocketnow.com/smartphone/ctia-nokia-demoes-n900-tablet-with-maemo-and-linux Oct 17 14:02:59 "Posted by Chuong Nguyen October 12th, 2009 at 01:37 PM" Oct 17 14:06:21 Frankly, I wouldn't believe at all what anyone without detailed hardware knowledge says about this issue. Oct 17 14:07:42 yup Oct 17 14:08:07 as stated above even Nokia chief sw devels are clueless it seems Oct 17 14:09:07 and hey, isn't that what we seen at OM as well? ;-P Oct 17 14:11:37 SpeedEvil: yeah, just find curious that boast ;-) Oct 17 14:11:56 tbh I'd really hate Nokia for postponing shipping date just to figure what all that USB-host issue is all about Oct 17 14:12:44 you're ordering? Oct 17 14:12:47 alas it's not that unlikely it is exactly what's going on Oct 17 14:12:57 who, me? Oct 17 14:14:13 is maemo interesting to develop for? Oct 17 14:14:18 * DocScrutinizer-8 remembers the big 3band vs 4band confusion about Neo :-P Oct 17 14:16:21 everybody at OM upper hirarchy thought Neo is 4band as calypso is basically able to do that. Our hw was a 3band design though - lol Oct 17 14:17:17 And they thought that the glamo was an accellerator. Oct 17 14:17:39 muhahaHAHAAAHAHAAA Oct 17 14:18:32 * mwester is now grumpier than usual this morning, with those bad memories brought back. Oct 17 14:19:09 * SpeedEvil feeds mwester cheese. Oct 17 14:19:22 well it *might* have been, *if* we connected glamo audio to wolfson, so mpeg decoding actually could be done on that "gfx accel" Oct 17 14:19:50 mwester: heyhoo! :-) Oct 17 14:20:09 Or dropped the screen to qvga I guess Oct 17 14:20:10 howdy! Oct 17 14:20:26 greetings o wise ones Oct 17 14:23:13 I guess if done right, glamo actuall could pull a while mpeg-video off MMC and decode/playback, while CPU at 0% load and still able to actually perform other tasks (not if that other task involves uSD/MMC access though :-P ) Oct 17 14:23:40 actuallY, whOle* Oct 17 14:24:28 but then you get video without any audio :-/ Oct 17 14:26:15 hi, just got a neo1973 from my friend. Need to make the GPS working for a open mapping party. when I switch on GPS, the phone restarts... What should I do? Oct 17 14:30:40 Change the preinstalled distrib Oct 17 14:30:43 with a new one Oct 17 14:33:42 fine.. which will be good for neo1973? Oct 17 14:33:55 prefer to install in the microSD Oct 17 14:37:36 panicking: can you help? Oct 17 14:38:15 I think that shr unstable Oct 17 14:38:19 I just checked the wiki. Found many distributions. so confused. What I need is the GPS working Oct 17 14:38:21 is a good distrib Oct 17 14:40:14 me almost downloading it. not much familiar with the device. Just got it today. need some help in installing too... Oct 17 14:42:16 I am at http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta01/ Which one to download? will the full version be fine in a 512MB SD card? Oct 17 14:44:08 I think that there are here a lot of people that use the shr Oct 17 14:44:14 but unfornutally Oct 17 14:44:19 I don't use it Oct 17 14:44:21 I use android Oct 17 14:44:30 I know that is good Oct 17 14:48:23 downloading the lite version of shr - unstable Oct 17 14:48:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR Oct 17 14:49:01 this is what contains Oct 17 14:52:43 thanks... Oct 17 14:53:00 I'll be back after downloading is complete Oct 17 15:16:43 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rb7dae334e876 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetAuthStatus(): allow 'unknown' as value Oct 17 15:27:58 hey. i ju Oct 17 15:28:31 oops. sorry to hit enter soon. does moko allows to record waypoints and gps traces and make gpx files? Oct 17 15:28:52 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libfso-glib * r36763b09f5c8 10/ (.gitignore src/freesmartphone-gsm.vala src/fso-glib-1.0.vapi): remove generated file and regenerate Oct 17 15:29:31 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * r54ffd64f7bc0 10/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala): do not link against vala, but rather gee upstream Oct 17 15:30:07 help! Oct 17 15:30:58 sjd: In the past I've simply used my neo1973 by running gzip direclty on the output of the GPS daemon pipe. Oct 17 15:31:01 to record the nmea Oct 17 15:31:30 SpeedEvil: but i dont get the terms you use Oct 17 15:31:32 SpeedEvil: which distrib were u using? Oct 17 15:31:59 tvmanukrishnan: A _very_ old dist Oct 17 15:32:03 tvmanukrishnan: err Oct 17 15:32:07 SpeedEvil: oh you were using gpsd? Oct 17 15:32:11 scaredycat image Oct 17 15:32:47 sjd: the neo1973 - the predecessor to the freerunner had a userspacce driver for the GPS which output NMEA - the normal output format for GPSs Oct 17 15:32:53 ops.. ma and sjd need the neo1973 to record the GPS data Oct 17 15:32:57 I then used gpsbabel to convert this Oct 17 15:33:28 SpeedEvil: okay that seems clear. Oct 17 15:33:49 * SpeedEvil is not being very logical today. Oct 17 15:33:54 SpeedEvil: now how do we get the NMEA though? Oct 17 15:33:58 turned compost heaps yesterday, and am bushed. Oct 17 15:34:09 sjd: I'm unsure of the proper way to do it. Oct 17 15:34:19 I know that tangogps can record a logfile of sorts Oct 17 15:34:33 SpeedEvil: oh Oct 17 15:34:50 tvmanukrishnan: this is getting tough Oct 17 15:34:55 sjd: tangogps is in the SHR package Oct 17 15:35:10 sjd: so we need SHR first I hope Oct 17 15:35:18 tvmanukrishnan: okay. let me look at the documentation Oct 17 15:35:22 tvmanukrishnan: yes Oct 17 15:35:34 any idea to check which is the current distrib in the moko? Oct 17 15:36:35 tvmanukrishnan: awesome to hear that tangogps downloads the data from OSM! Oct 17 15:36:57 sjd: gr8 Oct 17 15:37:39 tvmanukrishnan: just tiles Oct 17 15:38:06 tvmanukrishnan: but even that is handy for mapping - where are you thinking of doing? Oct 17 15:38:09 SpeedEvil: still. tangogps uses the gpsd app Oct 17 15:38:09 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * reb38865c6839 10/fsogsmd/ (7 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetAuthStatus() done Oct 17 15:38:29 SpeedEvil: we are having a mapping party in calicut Oct 17 15:39:00 Also - you want to make sure that you check the trace quality. Oct 17 15:39:01 http://www.mauve.plus.com/josm.png Oct 17 15:39:07 the purple is my neo1973 Oct 17 15:39:22 the white track near it is 'real' Oct 17 15:39:39 SpeedEvil: gotcha Oct 17 15:39:57 SpeedEvil: this quality is enough for upload? Oct 17 15:40:07 sjd: Well - no. Oct 17 15:40:10 Not in that case. Oct 17 15:40:27 SpeedEvil: oh. how do we strenthen? Oct 17 15:40:29 I'm unsure if that was simply as it'd gotten very bad position in the car, I don't think so. Oct 17 15:40:50 SpeedEvil: might be the issue with no reception to open sky Oct 17 15:41:03 Look at the image - the scale is 65m. That was going around several blocks of houses. Oct 17 15:41:09 SpeedEvil: we are taking it out. may bicycles or walking Oct 17 15:41:29 You can see how the in and out tracks of the 'white' GPS line up neatly. And the neo is sort of wandering all over the place. Oct 17 15:41:32 SpeedEvil: that seems poor Oct 17 15:41:42 It was not usually that bad. Oct 17 15:42:01 It may work better in a bike or handheld, I'm unsure. Oct 17 15:42:21 SpeedEvil: then it would serve for us. we are walking = handheld Oct 17 15:42:25 the area wasn't very built up - no tall buildings. It may have had poor geometry. Oct 17 15:42:51 especially if it was obstructed somewhat by teh car roof Oct 17 15:42:59 SpeedEvil: oh. so this trace have been generated using gpsbabel? from the userspace deamon? Oct 17 15:43:11 yes Oct 17 15:44:29 SpeedEvil: found it. now tangogps can create gpx files. they have a converter to use with the native type log file Oct 17 15:45:01 SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TangoGPS#creating_tracks Oct 17 15:45:42 I think it doesn't record any dilution of position information, which is a pity Oct 17 15:46:47 SpeedEvil: there might be some other tools too? Oct 17 15:47:28 I haven't kept up. I would look for a way to get gpsd to dump the NMEA stream Oct 17 15:47:33 but there may be better ways Oct 17 15:48:55 SpeedEvil: let me search. sometimes the osm people can help. Oct 17 16:52:04 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rdad00705d7e2 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcall.vala atmediators.vala atunsolicited.vala): fsogsmd: hook to +CRING to detect incoming calls Oct 17 17:19:14 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r30c2ed218a34 10/fsogsmd/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: callhandling: activate single call Oct 17 19:54:44 so is there a free texting program like the one for apples iphone that stops charges? Oct 17 20:01:29 slaxxer: I don't berleive that is possible Oct 17 20:01:55 The apple program probably just uses data to use an email to sms gateway Oct 17 21:20:12 lindi-: do you think it'd be nice if debian had two notions of non-free: firmware (that never runs on host) and apps (that do run on host)? Oct 17 22:40:52 openmoko: 03werner * r5694 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/lib/ (meter.py power.py): (log message trimmed) Oct 17 22:40:52 openmoko: Various corrections to the M3500A and mPP3040D drivers. Oct 17 22:40:52 openmoko: - lib/meter.py: Picotest now have a 20 port scanner card, so raise the number Oct 17 22:40:52 openmoko: of channels Oct 17 22:40:54 openmoko: - lib/meter.py: the response to ROUT:CLOS? is a comma-separated list, so we Oct 17 22:40:56 openmoko: have to count only the commas Oct 17 22:40:58 openmoko: - lib/meter.py: we had two meter.avg variables: done to set statistics mode and Oct 18 01:43:56 Androidage Oct 18 02:09:28 android is pretty an cool Oct 18 02:09:55 very finger friendly Oct 18 02:10:04 an on my sdcard Oct 18 02:11:04 i think Oct 18 02:11:57 cant seem to boot shr now **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 18 02:59:57 2009