**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 12 02:59:57 2009
Nov 12 05:31:59 <slaxxer> whatisit
Nov 12 05:46:50 <Breese_Kay> hi,all.where I can go to "setup", It appeare here :http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Enscribi  at Step 4.
Nov 12 05:54:26 <slaxxer> new  freerunner?
Nov 12 05:54:32 <luke-jr> slaxxer: ?
Nov 12 05:54:58 <slaxxer> did ya win that   auction?
Nov 12 06:07:46 <Breese_Kay> hi,all. Does the shr-messages has api can send sms though bash shell command ?
Nov 12 06:45:19 <Breese_Kay> I found my setting does include "Language Settings" I use full shr image. how should I set ?
Nov 12 06:45:28 <Breese_Kay> does not include
Nov 12 06:47:41 <tomcatek> Breese_Kay: have to install language package and change language in illume settings
Nov 12 06:52:36 <Breese_Kay> tomcatek: I have a issue. I use full shr image install my openmoko phone. if I don't select "language setting" programe when the system setup at first time.I have to install the packge use opkg ? no other way ?
Nov 12 06:54:26 <PaulFertser> Breese_Kay: what's the problem?
Nov 12 06:55:31 <Breese_Kay> PaulFertser: I found my phone doesn't have langguage setting menu , keyboard menu .
Nov 12 06:56:06 <PaulFertser> Breese_Kay: you can go to E settings and load necessary modules for that i think
Nov 12 06:57:11 <Breese_Kay> go to E settings ? where I can get it ...
Nov 12 06:59:52 <tomcatek> Breese_Kay: scroll down upper bar, tnd there You will find in upper left corner a small tool icon
Nov 12 06:59:53 <PaulFertser> Breese_Kay: "the wrench"
Nov 12 07:01:23 <Breese_Kay> I found it =_- ;;;
Nov 12 07:25:10 <alabd> Good day everyone , what has happened with this http://www.parisoma.com/openmoko_shop ?
Nov 12 07:30:46 <pupnik> why do you ask alabd 
Nov 12 07:31:28 <alabd> pupnik: how to shop from http://www.parisoma.com/ ?
Nov 12 07:31:44 <alabd> pupnik: how to buy from http://www.parisoma.com/ 
Nov 12 07:33:32 <pupnik> dunno
Nov 12 08:25:48 <Acedip> how does one know if freerunner is either running Om or SHR or any other distro?
Nov 12 08:30:07 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9758080c75e0 10/fsotimed/src/bin/.gitignore: fsotimed: gitignore++
Nov 12 10:01:14 <Psi> we really need to get sms app playing the sound every 10min until you read the sms
Nov 12 10:01:38 <Psi> keep missing messages cos im away from phone when the msg wav plays
Nov 12 10:02:57 <PaulFertser> Psi: indeed. To that wake-on-rtc should work reliably.
Nov 12 10:04:17 <Breese_Kay> hi,all .how to reset the shr screen config . It cause a seriaus bug when I use enscribi.
Nov 12 10:04:26 <Psi> i miss them when the phone is sitting at home run and on charge
Nov 12 10:04:30 <Psi> which is all the time when im at home
Nov 12 10:04:34 <Breese_Kay> sorry, reset scrren config use ssh
Nov 12 10:04:38 <Psi> run=running
Nov 12 10:05:16 <beer> morning
Nov 12 10:06:32 <Psi> is there any way i can setup a cron task to run a task if the new message screen is showing
Nov 12 10:09:53 <PaulFertser> Psi: sorry, that's something fso folks should know about.
Nov 12 10:10:14 <Psi> yeah
Nov 12 10:10:49 <Psi> does your shr show all sms as timestamp 1.01.1970 01:00 ?
Nov 12 10:10:55 <Psi> or is there something ive not setup
Nov 12 10:11:07 <Psi> my clock is set
Nov 12 10:14:34 <PaulFertser> Psi: running old (those that were packaged) shr-messages on Debian here, the timestamp is correct.
Nov 12 10:15:17 <Psi> hm..
Nov 12 10:17:34 <PaulFertser> Psi: it doesn't matter anyway, shr-messages are deprecated. SHR is going to use new phoneui stuff with opimd and all the goodies attached.
Nov 12 11:34:53 <Acedip> i cant connect to the computer in usb host mode.
Nov 12 11:38:05 <Acedip> i mean FF
Nov 12 11:38:15 <Acedip> *FR
Nov 12 11:39:35 <Acedip> though "dmesg" says its switching in host mode. and there was "HDQ error:1" and "HDQ responds again", if that helps
Nov 12 11:46:52 <PaulFertser> Acedip: computer can't be in a slave mode, so there's no sense to connect FR to computer when FR is host.
Nov 12 11:47:17 <Acedip> then?
Nov 12 11:53:51 <PaulFertser> Acedip: then do not do that
Nov 12 11:54:32 <Acedip> ohk, then how?
Nov 12 12:06:27 <lindi-> Acedip: how what?
Nov 12 12:06:53 <Acedip> how to connect FR to computer?
Nov 12 12:07:05 <lindi-> Acedip: put FR to device nmode
Nov 12 12:10:04 <Acedip> lindi-, ohk, it is now, also being charged, but cant get to see it as a drive/device.
Nov 12 12:10:42 <lindi-> Acedip: drive?
Nov 12 12:11:14 <lindi-> Acedip: run "uname -a; lsusb; lsmod" on both sides and put the complete output online somewhere
Nov 12 12:11:15 <Acedip> lindi-, well what is FR's behavior when connected to a computer?
Nov 12 12:11:25 <lindi-> Acedip: FR's behavior depends on software
Nov 12 12:11:35 <mjr> yeah
Nov 12 12:11:52 <mjr> most systems' default behaviour is to identify as an ethernet gadget
Nov 12 12:12:11 <mjr> (and ask for 500mA in current)
Nov 12 12:12:27 <Acedip> it is getting that current, being charged
Nov 12 12:12:38 <mjr> if there's no relevant driver on the host side, it may not necessarily get the okay for the current
Nov 12 12:17:00 <Acedip> here http://www.fpaste.org/ESp2/
Nov 12 12:18:25 <Acedip> and some dmesg output http://www.fpaste.org/SFfW/
Nov 12 12:18:39 <lindi-> Acedip: looks good, now just "ip link show"
Nov 12 12:20:26 <Acedip> http://www.fpaste.org/8kfu/
Nov 12 12:22:55 <lindi-> Acedip: it's probably that usb0
Nov 12 12:23:36 <Acedip> yes maybe.
Nov 12 12:25:55 <Acedip> well i want to access FR's flash
Nov 12 12:26:00 <Acedip> will i be able to do that from computer
Nov 12 12:26:17 <Acedip> save data/files in it
Nov 12 12:26:55 <Acedip> i thought it would pop up in my computer just like similar to a usb stick
Nov 12 12:27:41 <lindi-> Acedip: use ssh
Nov 12 12:31:41 <Acedip> lindi-, is it connected to the net?
Nov 12 12:32:16 <CIA-51> openmoko: 03werner * r5712 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (docs/ecn/ecn0001.txt docs/ecn/ecn0010.txt pmu.sch): 
Nov 12 12:32:16 <CIA-51> openmoko: - pmu.sch: implemented swap of LDO2 and LDO4 (ECN0010)
Nov 12 12:32:16 <CIA-51> openmoko: - ECN0010: added software impact and commit entry
Nov 12 12:32:16 <CIA-51> openmoko: - ECN0001: fixed overlength line, clarified kernel change
Nov 12 12:32:39 <Acedip> you mean to ssh to FR from my computer?
Nov 12 12:37:09 <Acedip> well what is host mode for?
Nov 12 12:38:58 <Acedip> well the dmesg says "no IPv6 routers present"
Nov 12 12:39:54 <gour> hi, i read the june's "future of FR" ml thread, looked in wiki...and wonder if the time is ready for linux smart-phone, i.e. is the hardware of FR good-enough to be used for some years...otoh, i saw one dev went to do webos stuff and i'm curious if palm's hardware is more appropriate for someone wanting to use linux-based smart-phone?
Nov 12 12:40:36 <Acedip> gour, archive link?
Nov 12 12:40:57 <gour> Acedip: let me find it
Nov 12 12:41:23 <ndnihil> it's useable with a little bit of work setting things up
Nov 12 12:42:10 <gour> Acedip: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/048903.html
Nov 12 12:42:59 <gour> ndnihil: that i've concluded based on the reading...what about hardware quality? how long can it lasts?
Nov 12 12:43:11 <ndnihil> it's actually quite well made
Nov 12 12:43:18 <ndnihil> kinda surprised me in that aspect
Nov 12 12:43:31 <ndnihil> just dont break the screen and you should be fine
Nov 12 12:44:29 <gour> and what's the european price for a7 version (that's the one with buzz-fix, right?)?
Nov 12 12:44:29 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rde0d5083fc0b 10/fsogsmd/ (configure.ac vapi/config.vapi): fsogsmd: require mobile-broadband-provider-info and bind via config.vapi
Nov 12 12:44:39 <ndnihil> yep, a7 is buzzfixed
Nov 12 12:45:05 <ndnihil> no idea what the euro price is
Nov 12 12:45:15 <gour> is qt recommended distro, or it depends on one's needs?
Nov 12 12:45:16 <ndnihil> probably best to inquire with a distributor 
Nov 12 12:45:30 <ndnihil> qt runs pretty nice, but I haven't used it much
Nov 12 12:45:40 <ndnihil> been using SHR unstable here
Nov 12 12:46:49 <gour> shr uses gtk+ libs (which i prefer over qt)
Nov 12 12:53:57 <gour> wiki says: "email reader and contacts manager: software is not stable yet" - is it still valid?
Nov 12 13:04:36 <pbaxter> hi all
Nov 12 13:05:25 <pbaxter> gour: qtmoko is very stable but has a big problem: dependly on your moko there is a bug that make you not receive sometimes sms
Nov 12 13:06:04 <gour> pbaxter: hmm, this is thrilling
Nov 12 13:06:20 <gour> in the meantime, i saw, that there should be claws mailer for shr
Nov 12 13:06:27 <pbaxter> gour: you can try it
Nov 12 13:06:39 <pbaxter> gour: also the moko is bought to try with it and play also with it
Nov 12 13:06:50 <pbaxter> not to have a stable phone else there many smartphone
Nov 12 13:07:07 <gour> pbaxter: well, first i've to decide is it useful enough to buy it
Nov 12 13:07:29 <pbaxter> gour: if you'r coder that's cool
Nov 12 13:07:32 <gour> i'd like to support open-source stuff...not something like ipod
Nov 12 13:07:32 <pbaxter> else don't know
Nov 12 13:07:41 <pbaxter> but hardware of FR is old
Nov 12 13:07:47 <pbaxter> gour: there are many other now
Nov 12 13:08:00 <pbaxter> hardware of FR is old
Nov 12 13:08:02 <pbaxter> quite old*
Nov 12 13:08:11 <gour> well, i'm not sure python & haskell are the best langs for FR
Nov 12 13:08:18 <pbaxter> for example there is n900 of nokia with Maemo/Mer
Nov 12 13:08:35 <pbaxter> then there is htc with a most of android source open-source
Nov 12 13:08:37 <gour> what are some other open & linux-based phones?
Nov 12 13:08:42 <pbaxter> n900
Nov 12 13:08:44 <pbaxter> htc
Nov 12 13:08:50 <lindi-> pbaxter: n900 is not usable without proprietary software
Nov 12 13:09:06 <pbaxter> lindi-: n900 is maemo/mer i think
Nov 12 13:09:13 <lindi-> pbaxter: so?
Nov 12 13:09:18 <pbaxter> also lindi- some parts of FR are not opensource
Nov 12 13:09:20 <pbaxter> and you know
Nov 12 13:09:32 <pbaxter> i've read somewhere a lot of time ago on ML
Nov 12 13:09:34 <lindi-> pbaxter: i'm talking about things that run on the main cpu
Nov 12 13:09:47 <pbaxter> there is a part concerning gsm i think (a driver) that's not open
Nov 12 13:10:02 <lindi-> pbaxter: in fr gsm stuff runs on a separate cpu
Nov 12 13:10:03 <pbaxter> lindi-: what you mean so with "n900 is not usable without propietary software"?
Nov 12 13:10:12 <pbaxter> lindi-: ok didn't know this
Nov 12 13:10:19 <lindi-> pbaxter: you need a proprietary program to have the battery charge :)
Nov 12 13:10:27 <pbaxter> lindi-: i didn't know
Nov 12 13:10:52 <pbaxter> lindi-: thanks for info :)
Nov 12 13:11:05 <pbaxter> lindi-: do you know green phone?
Nov 12 13:11:20 <lindi-> pbaxter: nope
Nov 12 13:11:48 <pbaxter> ok no worries
Nov 12 13:43:14 <Acedip> well fr doesnt connect to the network when connected to my computer
Nov 12 13:43:15 <Acedip> ?
Nov 12 13:45:29 <lindi-> Acedip: it all depends on the software
Nov 12 13:45:44 <Acedip> ohk :)
Nov 12 13:45:53 <lindi-> Acedip: the wiki has some notes on how you can configure it
Nov 12 13:46:48 <Acedip> lindi-, ohk, well any particular thing you want to point out looking at the posts of my computer?
Nov 12 13:47:50 <lindi-> Acedip: well you need to configure ip address for usb0 and setup some sort of NAT probably
Nov 12 13:58:31 <PaulFertser> Acedip: you need to spend some time reading the OM wiki probably
Nov 12 13:59:12 <lindi-> Acedip: remember to enable javascript. the wiki search does not work without
Nov 12 14:04:26 <PaulFertser> lindi-: alternatively, one can use site:wiki.openmoko.org and regular google interface
Nov 12 14:04:46 <lindi-> PaulFertser: but google is proprietary search engine :(
Nov 12 14:05:18 <PaulFertser> lindi-: alas
Nov 12 14:06:03 <Acedip> thankyou guys! I shall do my homework and get back :)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 12 14:27:36 2009
Nov 12 15:01:23 <ftn> what's the right way of setting a window in fullscreen mode in python- elementaru since set_fullscreen doesn't work? pls
Nov 12 15:37:14 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r539ba86dc5e1 10/fsogsmd/ (6 files in 4 dirs): fsogsmd: read mobile broadband provider information database into memory
Nov 12 15:37:28 <valos> ftn: method name is fullscreen_set
Nov 12 15:46:40 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5eaa99885e5e 10/fsogsmd/configure.ac: fsogsmd: relax libxml2 requirement to 0.7.3
Nov 12 16:47:56 <slaxxer> qt    WOTKS
Nov 12 16:48:01 <slaxxer> works
Nov 12 17:15:37 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r303f4dc1ec47 10/libfsobasics/fsobasics/utilities.vala: libfsobasics: allocate 1M
Nov 12 17:26:25 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5ceb300425b7 10/fsogsmd/tests/testconst.vala: fsogsmd: add tests for Constants module
Nov 12 17:27:12 <pbaxter> slaxxer: qtmoko works
Nov 12 18:02:05 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r838ddb5cee69 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: add some means to traverse the MBPI
Nov 12 18:13:37 <alabd> good day everyone , what is  #1024 recamping about ?
Nov 12 18:15:57 <mwester> Look at bug 1024 in the bug tracker.
Nov 12 18:17:12 <alabd> mwester:  it is blocked for iranians ... so would explain one line for it ? and is it done in A7 ?
Nov 12 18:29:00 <mwester> The GSM cannot remain in deep-sleep mode; it enters deep-sleep, loses registration, and re-registers constantly.  This is a hardware problem in the phone.
Nov 12 18:29:33 <mwester> The workaround is to disable deep-sleep, which works very well at the cost of some decrease in battery life.
Nov 12 18:34:21 <luke-jr> "The Freerunner date code is 20080622, it is an A02, with a blue PCB."
Nov 12 18:34:33 <luke-jr> can it be updates to A7 by hand?
Nov 12 18:34:37 <luke-jr> updated*
Nov 12 18:38:34 <alabd> mwester: problem remains in A6 ?
Nov 12 18:40:05 <mwester> problem exists in all gta01 and gta02 hardware, regardless of version.,
Nov 12 18:40:41 <mwester> and since OM-the-company is not making any more revisions AFAIK, it won't be fixed by them.
Nov 12 18:41:05 <luke-jr> mwester: what about the 1024-fix?
Nov 12 18:48:15 <pbaxter> mwester:in SHR the bug is done through softawre
Nov 12 18:48:18 <pbaxter> software
Nov 12 18:52:08 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r18cb4fe41bd2 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: More work on link establishment and improvements for logging
Nov 12 18:52:09 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rb7b8736dd441 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: Cleanup and restructure link establishment process
Nov 12 18:53:39 <der-lehmann> pbaxter: really?
Nov 12 18:54:09 <mwester> The software "fix" has been around for a looooong time -- it is, as I said, to disable deep-sleep mode.
Nov 12 18:54:16 <pbaxter> der-lehmann: i know that in SHR this bug has been solved through software
Nov 12 18:54:35 <pbaxter> mwester: it's ok if the phone works for 4/5 days 
Nov 12 18:54:39 <pbaxter> in standby
Nov 12 18:55:28 <der-lehmann> i get only 2 days
Nov 12 18:56:40 <pbaxter> der-lehmann: ?_?
Nov 12 19:00:35 <der-lehmann> pbaxter: ti_calypso_deep_sleep = never on frameworkd.conf 
Nov 12 19:03:34 <der-lehmann> ist that right?
Nov 12 19:11:59 <luke-jr> should any SIM card work in OpenMoko phones?
Nov 12 19:12:22 <luke-jr> I'm confused because Boost Mobile is a sub-company of Sprint, which is CDMA, and Boost Mobile themselves only sell phones, not SIM cards
Nov 12 19:12:25 <luke-jr> yet ebay has SIM cards...
Nov 12 19:17:49 <luke-jr> hmm, something about an iDEN network that uses SIM too?? O.o
Nov 12 19:23:09 <matze> hi
Nov 12 19:34:44 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r1cde52030694 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: Fix all errors and some warnings when compiling
Nov 12 20:33:45 <alabd> Good day everyone  , how much does it cost if FR be sent to seden from US shop ?
Nov 12 20:33:50 <alabd> Good day everyone  , how much does it cost if FR be sent to sweden from US shop 
Nov 12 20:35:39 <Rakhun> wouldn't it be cheaper to buy it from Germany or so?
Nov 12 20:35:58 <slaxxer> proly wants an 850
Nov 12 20:35:59 <Rakhun> (nevermind, maybe that is what you're trying to find out :) )
Nov 12 20:36:05 <alabd> yes it seems 
Nov 12 20:36:46 <alabd> no our country GSM s are 900 or 900/1800
Nov 12 20:38:03 <slaxxer> Taichung 407
Nov 12 20:38:03 <slaxxer>  Taiwan
Nov 12 20:39:21 <alabd> taiwan what slaxxer ?
Nov 12 20:39:23 <slaxxer> may not be many 900 in usa
Nov 12 20:39:59 <slaxxer> a distru   in taiwan
Nov 12 20:40:24 <slaxxer> can u go to openmoko.com
Nov 12 20:42:20 <Rakhun> alabd: I got mine from Golden Delicious/handheldlinux.com (to sweden), but a friend of mine said he found it cheaper elsewhere, I can ask him where he found it next time I see him (sometime tomorrow I guess)
Nov 12 20:42:49 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * refa56e0e3a8f 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: Some more changes ...
Nov 12 20:53:04 <pieterc> hey you guys heard about go?
Nov 12 20:53:10 <pieterc> (google's new language)
Nov 12 20:53:20 <pieterc> it looks promising to me.
Nov 12 20:53:28 <luke-jr> ...
Nov 12 20:53:28 <pieterc> They're doing a compiler for arm processors too
Nov 12 20:53:32 <luke-jr> Google is evil
Nov 12 20:53:36 <pieterc> you're evil
Nov 12 20:53:52 <luke-jr> I'll accept 'go' when I accept C#
Nov 12 20:54:04 <pieterc> come on, google tries its best, be happy I don't... mono... right, you're first;)
Nov 12 20:54:21 <pieterc> well... go is open source at last
Nov 12 20:54:24 <alabd> in This is the European GSM 900/1800/1900 version of the 
Nov 12 20:54:27 <pieterc> is developed by our pal ken tompson
Nov 12 20:54:35 <alabd> it means it work in GSMs 900 and 1800 and 1900  ?
Nov 12 20:54:45 <pbaxter> pieterc: but it does use some securething of C and the link between them is not so
Nov 12 20:54:51 <luke-jr> pieterc: Google can't write code for beans
Nov 12 20:55:02 <slaxxer> alabd yes
Nov 12 20:55:10 <pbaxter> pieterc: go uses something of C and the link between them is not secure
Nov 12 20:56:21 <pieterc> pbaxter: ... huh?
Nov 12 20:56:48 <alabd> Is 1024 problem software problem ?
Nov 12 20:56:57 <luke-jr> alabd: hardware..
Nov 12 20:57:01 <pbaxter> pieterc: i've read on a forum then when it compiles or someother time, it uses some C thing
Nov 12 20:57:05 <luke-jr> that's why the fix is a hardware fix
Nov 12 20:57:10 <alabd> so is it fixed in A7 ?
Nov 12 20:57:12 <pbaxter> and the link when it does this operation is not secure
Nov 12 20:57:16 <luke-jr> alabd: not afaik
Nov 12 20:57:23 <pbaxter> and we can have errors in memory and such things
Nov 12 20:57:26 <alabd> in all OSs ?
Nov 12 20:57:51 <luke-jr> alabd: OpenMoko Inc was happy with telling distros to workaround it
Nov 12 20:58:21 <pieterc> pbaxter: well it is an open source project, so if it's insercure enough I'm sure it'll get fixed... your something problem...
Nov 12 20:58:25 <alabd> it happens when phones s stand by ?
Nov 12 20:58:40 <luke-jr> pieterc: bad logic
Nov 12 20:58:46 <alabd> it happens when phone is stand by ?
Nov 12 20:59:25 <pbaxter> pieterc: this just what i read in a forum
Nov 12 20:59:49 <pieterc> ok ok :)
Nov 12 21:00:18 <alabd> luke-jr:  do you mean it will not be fixed after gsm firmware upgarde ?
Nov 12 21:02:08 <max_posedon> go haven't any libs now
Nov 12 21:02:11 <max_posedon> its useless
Nov 12 21:02:42 <pieterc> I think google made some good points saying we need a programming language that combines both python, perl and c pros. They're doing it in an OS way and they're creating compilers for al kinds of processors. If I would be able to use perl's regexp power in a C++ way... I would be damn glad. I'm sure there are some negative points about it, but doesn't any programming language got those?
Nov 12 21:03:17 <max_posedon> pieterc, whe have one already
Nov 12 21:03:27 <max_posedon> and its heavy used in fso-shr
Nov 12 21:03:32 <pieterc> max_posedon: vala?
Nov 12 21:03:33 <max_posedon> named "vala"
Nov 12 21:03:34 <ndnihil> the only thing python should be combined with is a swift rm command
Nov 12 21:04:36 <pieterc> max_posedon: vala understands slices?
Nov 12 21:05:51 <max_posedon> I don't know
Nov 12 21:06:07 <pieterc> max_posedon: vala has garbage collection?
Nov 12 21:06:16 <max_posedon> yes
Nov 12 21:06:24 <pieterc> max_posedon: oh rly (damn vala)
Nov 12 21:06:27 <pieterc> ;)
Nov 12 21:06:50 <max_posedon> ok, I think I lied
Nov 12 21:07:05 <pieterc> duh
Nov 12 21:07:10 <max_posedon> vala implements smth like shared_ptr + ref counting
Nov 12 21:07:17 <max_posedon> (just reading wikipedia about it)
Nov 12 21:07:35 <max_posedon> but I'm not vala developer, wrong person to ask may be)
Nov 12 21:07:43 <pieterc> I just want to make clear Go IS pretty interesting to use on for instance SHR
Nov 12 21:08:30 <pieterc> And personally I don't see any bad thing to it
Nov 12 21:08:31 <DocScrutinizer> alabd: no, calypso fw update can't fix #1024
Nov 12 21:08:49 <max_posedon> Go haven't glib/dbus integration for now
Nov 12 21:08:59 <max_posedon> completeless useless, except for hello worlds
Nov 12 21:09:24 <pieterc> max_posedon: It's still being built...
Nov 12 21:09:26 <max_posedon> I also don't belive in UI programs in Go next year, so, useless 2nd time
Nov 12 21:09:42 <max_posedon> so, come back in 2 years, when everything will be ready
Nov 12 21:09:43 <DocScrutinizer> alabd: it's definitely a hw-bug (layout fault)
Nov 12 21:09:45 <max_posedon> for now its useless
Nov 12 21:10:14 <pbaxter> bye all
Nov 12 21:10:31 <pbaxter> pieterc: and let me know about Go ok?
Nov 12 21:10:39 <pieterc> max_posedon: now you're saying I should not buy a freerunner because buying a freerunner today is pretty useless since there's still bug 1024(and that's only an example)
Nov 12 21:11:33 <max_posedon> I dislike any comparing hot with soft, sorry)
Nov 12 21:11:35 <pieterc> shouldn't we, as a revolutionary community, embrace things that are still a little hacky to use?
Nov 12 21:11:53 <pieterc> max_posedon: comparing SHR to Go will do? ;)
Nov 12 21:11:57 <max_posedon> go ahead! I wish you good like
Nov 12 21:12:01 <max_posedon> *luck
Nov 12 21:12:09 <pieterc> argh... I don't want a fight :p
Nov 12 21:12:20 <pieterc> I just wish you weren't that stuborn 
Nov 12 21:12:34 <pieterc> you know what I mean for god sake
Nov 12 21:13:00 <pieterc> And I understand your point
Nov 12 21:13:09 <pieterc> and you got a point
Nov 12 21:13:11 <max_posedon> I'm happy that fso/shr don't use proto buffers
Nov 12 21:13:41 <radekp> pieterc: #1024 is not that big problem - deep sleep is disabled in majority of distros and 2 or 3 days between charging is not that bad
Nov 12 21:13:44 <max_posedon> and I don't understand why when google release smth, its become widely discussed
Nov 12 21:15:50 <pieterc> max_posedon: you can't deny they do have a great influence and they do have some great people aboard. And honnestly... If I have to choose between google and Microsoft/Apple.
Nov 12 21:15:51 <pieterc> ..
Nov 12 21:16:15 <max_posedon> as I said, I'm happy that fso/shr don't use proto buffers
Nov 12 21:16:28 <Gabrys1> one example Google vs Apple and Microsoft 
Nov 12 21:16:32 <max_posedon> and I remember how all discussed this protocol, when google released them
Nov 12 21:16:40 <max_posedon> so, I don't see "influence"
Nov 12 21:16:43 <Gabrys1> does iPhoneOS or Windows Mobile work on FR?
Nov 12 21:16:51 <Gabrys1> and does Android work on FR?
Nov 12 21:16:51 <SpeedEvil> Gabrys1: no
Nov 12 21:17:53 <Gabrys1> Google is quite open, they are still company and make money, but they also contribute to open and free stuff
Nov 12 21:18:31 <max_posedon> personally I'm love Nokia more)
Nov 12 21:18:40 <SpeedEvil> android works on FR, as I understand it, but not with the proprietory apps - maps, and app-store
Nov 12 21:19:08 <Gabrys1> one of the problems with Android apps is that some of them contain native ARMv5 code
Nov 12 21:19:27 <Gabrys1> which is OK for mainline Android HTC phones, but FR is only ARMv4 and this is why they crash
Nov 12 21:19:51 <Gabrys1> AppStore is only enabled on phones distributed in non-open way
Nov 12 21:20:09 <Gabrys1> with the agreements and stuff
Nov 12 21:20:22 <lindi-> Gabrys1: just recompile for armv4, easy
Nov 12 21:20:29 <Gabrys1> nope
Nov 12 21:20:40 <Gabrys1> some apps for Android are binary only
Nov 12 21:21:02 <Gabrys1> as long as they are pure-Dalvik it's OK, but as I said, some of them contain some native code
Nov 12 21:21:02 <lindi-> Gabrys1: proprietary applications? why do you worry then?
Nov 12 21:21:34 <Gabrys1> because I have no open application that is good GPS navigation system
Nov 12 21:21:50 <max_posedon> its isn't big problem
Nov 12 21:21:59 <SpeedEvil> Depends on what you want.
Nov 12 21:22:02 <lindi-> Gabrys1: i guess people value different things
Nov 12 21:22:07 <Gabrys1> sure
Nov 12 21:22:08 <max_posedon> and who wants gogole maps?!
Nov 12 21:22:10 <SpeedEvil> I can see the new google-navigation system being very valuable
Nov 12 21:22:15 <max_posedon> they even don't have my country!
Nov 12 21:22:20 <SpeedEvil> with the streetview integration
Nov 12 21:22:41 <lindi-> Gabrys1: i want to share and change software, you want to have powerful software
Nov 12 21:22:47 <max_posedon> (e.g. no maps, only photos)
Nov 12 21:22:55 <Gabrys1> the StreetView on GPS system is the most stupid way I ever saw
Nov 12 21:23:15 <SpeedEvil> Gabrys1: Done well I was meaning - I haven't seen the actual implementation
Nov 12 21:23:21 <Gabrys1> why would you like to see the image of street you're driving if you're driving it and see it real
Nov 12 21:23:33 <pieterc> guys please... Java is way more evil than Go, why not embrace it.
Nov 12 21:23:39 <SpeedEvil> Because I don't want to be looking at the screen all the time.
Nov 12 21:23:48 <lindi-> pieterc: why is java evil?
Nov 12 21:23:59 <SpeedEvil> And I want to be able to look at my destination before I set off, in order to know exactly which building it is
Nov 12 21:24:30 <pieterc> lindi-: it's as proprietary as Go and we even can't submit syntaxis enhancements
Nov 12 21:24:54 <pieterc> (to Java)
Nov 12 21:25:04 <lindi-> pieterc: that's surely not a feature of a language, only feature of some implementation
Nov 12 21:25:36 <pieterc> lindi-: i mean't the compilers (and jvm) of course
Nov 12 21:25:48 <lindi-> pieterc: you can surely modify those
Nov 12 21:26:57 <pieterc> lindi-: sigh... sure you can... I'm trying to say Go is trying to listen to the folks atm, and saying No to Go at this point will not do any good to anyone.
Nov 12 21:28:42 <pieterc> whilst I think Go bring forward some really interesting ideas
Nov 12 21:29:23 <luke-jr> alabd: it's not a firmware problem, it's a physical problem
Nov 12 21:29:24 <lindi-> too young to say :)
Nov 12 21:29:50 <pieterc> lindi-: If you're interested, this video is what made me curious:
Nov 12 21:29:59 <pieterc> <luke-jr> alabd: it's not a firmware problem, it's a physical problem  [22:29]
Nov 12 21:29:59 <pieterc> <lindi-> too young to say :)
Nov 12 21:29:59 <pieterc> ERC> *oops, emacs doesn't support C-v yet :p
Nov 12 21:30:03 <pieterc> (my emacs)
Nov 12 21:30:12 <lindi-> C-y
Nov 12 21:30:12 <pieterc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKnDgT73v8s
Nov 12 21:30:15 <pieterc> here you go
Nov 12 21:30:49 <pieterc> -middle mouseclick did the trick-
Nov 12 21:32:06 <DocScrutinizer> yank :-P
Nov 12 21:32:10 <pieterc> right :p
Nov 12 21:32:20 <lindi-> pieterc: bit too large video
Nov 12 21:33:05 <pieterc> lindi-: the first 10 minutes of the slides might be the most interesting
Nov 12 21:33:16 <pieterc> the other 50 minutes are more syntax explantions
Nov 12 21:33:25 <pieterc> *explenations
Nov 12 21:34:08 * pieterc is having difficulties with english at this stage of the day
Nov 12 21:36:48 <pieterc> imagine how cool it would be for openmoko to be the first arm platform go is being used... Would make those google guys finally see us? :p
Nov 12 21:38:06 <max_posedon> they `saw us` in 2008, even sponsor some GSOC projects, but forgets in 2009
Nov 12 21:38:19 <max_posedon> I think they already know all what they want)
Nov 12 21:39:10 <Gabrys1> I like many openmoko apps are written in python
Nov 12 21:39:29 <Gabrys1> this means less compiling and easier developing
Nov 12 21:39:54 <pieterc> Gabrys1: which means no compiling and slow software
Nov 12 21:40:05 <Gabrys1> pieterc: it's not that slow
Nov 12 21:40:14 <Gabrys1> I agree frameworkd should be in C
Nov 12 21:40:16 <pieterc> Gabrys1: but it's a little slow isn't it ;)
Nov 12 21:40:20 <Gabrys1> C++ maybe
Nov 12 21:40:32 <Gabrys1> but end-user apps are OK to be in Python
Nov 12 21:44:19 <pieterc> Gabrys1: I won't just copy here what google says, if you want to know you should check out the first 15 minutes of the youtube video I refered to. Google's points is not what I think and yes I do think you're right about python and c++, but this Go-thing is pretty interesting too and should not be ignored
Nov 12 21:51:16 <pieterc> Oh yes, an interesting feature for now: go doesn't compile on windows sytems ;)
Nov 12 21:55:33 <Gabrys1> any Chinese people here?
Nov 12 22:06:21 <alabd> Is 4 GIG memory enough for Android+debian+SHR +Qtopia be installed with reqular softwares ?
Nov 12 22:07:26 <pieterc> alabd: yes
Nov 12 22:07:42 <pieterc> 1 GB each should do I think
Nov 12 22:08:48 <alabd> pieterc:  with their softwares ?
Nov 12 22:08:54 <alabd> like gps maps ...
Nov 12 22:10:21 <pieterc> If I were you I would give SHR and QTopia 512 each, android and debain 1 GB each, and the rest a shared home folder for debian shr and QTopia
Nov 12 22:10:53 <pieterc> so you can re-use maps between debian and SHR (and maybe QTopia, dunno)
Nov 12 22:11:12 <alabd> ohum 
Nov 12 22:11:21 <alabd> which memory mark do you advice ?
Nov 12 22:12:00 <pieterc> memory mark?
Nov 12 22:12:28 <alabd> memory brans pieterc
Nov 12 22:12:33 <alabd> *brands
Nov 12 22:12:33 <lindi-> why use separate partitions?
Nov 12 22:13:11 <alabd> pieterc:  kingstone ?sandisk ? ... ?
Nov 12 22:13:36 <pieterc> alabd: oh, I use sandisk myself but I don't know about others :)
Nov 12 22:13:55 <pieterc> lindi-: isn't that more appropriate?
Nov 12 22:14:32 <alabd> how to understand sandisk is original one ? pieterc
Nov 12 22:15:36 <pieterc> what do you mean alabd?
Nov 12 22:16:04 <alabd> how to find out whether that sandisk is original one or not ?
Nov 12 22:16:21 <alabd> someone sale fake ..
Nov 12 22:18:27 <alabd> pieterc:  do you have 4 giig ?
Nov 12 22:21:06 <pieterc> alabd: yes
Nov 12 22:21:10 <pieterc> oh... he left
Nov 12 23:16:50 <Gabrys1> I found a way how to install apps from Market onto Android on FR
Nov 12 23:18:54 <pieterc> Gabrys1: get the apk and push through adb?
Nov 12 23:19:07 <Gabrys1> yes, the problem is how to get the apk
Nov 12 23:19:46 <Gabrys1> so basically you need to install the app on emulator and pull the apk with adb
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 13 02:59:57 2009