**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 16 02:59:56 2009
Nov 16 09:28:35 <panicking> Hi all
Nov 16 09:28:48 <panicking> any one know a micro-camera that can be plugged in the openmoko
Nov 16 09:28:50 <panicking> freerunner 
Nov 16 09:32:10 <raster> plugged in where?
Nov 16 09:32:22 <raster> u have no camera "plug"
Nov 16 09:33:08 <panicking> plug in the usb
Nov 16 09:33:14 <panicking> and set it in host mode
Nov 16 09:33:21 <panicking> i'm doing some performance test in android
Nov 16 09:33:32 <panicking> and maybe find in the market a microcamera
Nov 16 09:33:56 * Weiss always thought it would be interesting to try to hook up a camera via SDIO, either on the SD card slot or the WLAN slot
Nov 16 09:34:09 <Weiss> (depending on whether the the former can do SDIO or not)
Nov 16 09:36:27 <panicking> It's possible to change
Nov 16 09:36:31 <panicking> and gta02
Nov 16 09:36:33 <panicking> make an hole
Nov 16 09:36:38 <panicking> and find place to put a camera
Nov 16 09:36:57 <panicking> I was thinking in the usb
Nov 16 09:37:15 <SpeedEvil> IIRC GTA02 has the camera bus brought out
Nov 16 09:37:29 <SpeedEvil> you coild in principle just attacha standard mobile phone camera to it
Nov 16 09:37:48 <SpeedEvil> However - USB is 'easy'
Nov 16 09:37:59 <larsc> nope, some of the pins of the camera port are used
Nov 16 09:38:14 <SpeedEvil> little hub onto the bluetooth port, ...
Nov 16 09:38:41 <panicking> so use it's easy
Nov 16 09:38:45 <panicking> to use D+ and D-
Nov 16 09:38:47 <panicking> from host 
Nov 16 09:38:53 <panicking> and connect the camera
Nov 16 09:38:58 <panicking> and find the power on the pcb
Nov 16 09:39:14 <panicking> It would be great to try this change
Nov 16 09:39:35 <panicking> But I'm scared about performance
Nov 16 09:39:40 <panicking> so let me check
Nov 16 09:39:42 <panicking> in android
Nov 16 09:39:58 <panicking> because I have a nice camera application
Nov 16 09:39:59 <panicking> to test
Nov 16 09:40:18 <SpeedEvil> Performance would be no better than a camera connected to the external USB poty
Nov 16 09:40:20 <SpeedEvil> port
Nov 16 09:40:55 <Weiss> this is the Glamo camera port?
Nov 16 09:40:57 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, the SD card port cannot do SDIO, as that goes through the glamo - raster would know better
Nov 16 09:41:00 <SpeedEvil> Weiss: no
Nov 16 09:41:13 <SpeedEvil> Weiss: At least notas I understood it
Nov 16 09:41:15 <raster> SpeedEvil:  i think so (on the sdio)
Nov 16 09:41:18 <Weiss> the SoC's camera port?
Nov 16 09:41:18 <raster> it CAN do sd card
Nov 16 09:41:22 <raster> glamo handles that
Nov 16 09:41:29 <raster> ie u do all sd card io through the gfx chip
Nov 16 09:41:36 <raster> and then it gets copied to/from ram
Nov 16 09:41:55 <raster> panicking:  ewwww the usb plug? ow ow ow
Nov 16 09:41:57 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - not SDIO though. The wifi card 'SD' bus should be able to I think
Nov 16 09:42:11 <raster> SpeedEvil:  yeah. tho wifi is hooked up there
Nov 16 09:42:23 <raster> already taken
Nov 16 09:42:30 <raster> the 2442 is a very limited soc
Nov 16 09:42:35 <raster> especialy in terms of io
Nov 16 09:42:45 <SpeedEvil> I've pondered in the past a SDIO card expander
Nov 16 09:42:53 <raster> life becoems infinitely easier just goign to a not even modern soc
Nov 16 09:43:00 <SpeedEvil> which multiplexes SD/SDIO cards.
Nov 16 09:43:02 <raster> eg omap2, s3c64xx
Nov 16 09:43:16 <raster> modern ones (omap3, s5pc etc.) are monsters of i/o
Nov 16 09:43:18 <SpeedEvil> But then I realised there would be little or no market.
Nov 16 09:43:33 <raster> very little point methinks
Nov 16 09:43:47 <raster> though someone did that already
Nov 16 09:43:55 <raster> sd card adaptor - u put 2 micro-sd cards into
Nov 16 09:43:59 <SpeedEvil> (SDIO cards can have up to 8 functions, you can in principle have an SDIO card with 8 SDs plugged into it.
Nov 16 09:44:06 <SpeedEvil> Funky
Nov 16 09:44:14 <raster> i suspect it does something like parallel access to the 2 child cards to pull more throughtput from them
Nov 16 09:44:17 <SpeedEvil> Did it present as two devices, or just one
Nov 16 09:44:30 <raster> no idea
Nov 16 09:44:34 <raster> i just know it exists
Nov 16 09:44:42 <raster> i'm waiting to find a 32g micro-sd
Nov 16 09:45:01 <SpeedEvil> The SD card with wifi in impressed me as a wacky device.
Nov 16 09:45:14 <panicking> SpeedEvil, glamo can support camera, so it is possible
Nov 16 09:45:15 <SpeedEvil> The 'auto-share' one for cameras.
Nov 16 09:45:21 <panicking> to support that interface
Nov 16 09:45:30 <SpeedEvil> Possible, and possible on the current board are very different things though.
Nov 16 09:45:31 <raster> bizarre
Nov 16 09:47:41 <raster> tho really most capable devices have wifi on-board already
Nov 16 09:47:56 <raster> just amount of storage is something u cant cater for in a device easily
Nov 16 09:48:15 <raster> thus - either provide silly amounts (32gb of onboard flash for example)
Nov 16 09:48:22 <raster> and/or provide expandability via cards
Nov 16 09:48:31 <SpeedEvil> No longer silly in a couple of years though
Nov 16 09:48:36 <SpeedEvil> and yes
Nov 16 09:48:39 <raster> indeed
Nov 16 09:48:53 <raster> micro-sd's i believe just hit 32g
Nov 16 09:48:56 <raster> whats next
Nov 16 09:49:03 <SpeedEvil> 64
Nov 16 09:49:06 <raster> can they actually cram 64 or 128g into a micro-sd?
Nov 16 09:49:08 <SpeedEvil> :)
Nov 16 09:49:10 <SpeedEvil> Sure
Nov 16 09:49:15 <raster> is it possible even with the top end of todays tech?
Nov 16 09:49:27 <SpeedEvil> Yes, but not with any yield
Nov 16 09:49:38 <raster> that sucks
Nov 16 09:49:41 <SpeedEvil> But with 2 or 4 years advances, seems likely.
Nov 16 09:49:53 <raster> mm fair enough
Nov 16 09:49:58 <SpeedEvil> Unless tech hits an unforseen brick-wall - which doesn't seem to be close
Nov 16 09:50:14 <raster> so the patch-all solution is "provide micro-sd card slowt and let users upgrade themselves if they want"
Nov 16 09:50:26 <raster> well thats what i was wondeirng
Nov 16 09:50:31 <raster> are we at a brick wall?
Nov 16 09:51:09 <SpeedEvil> not yet.
Nov 16 09:51:18 <SpeedEvil> And nobody has been screaming about it.
Nov 16 09:51:25 <SpeedEvil> It looks like it's at least a decade out.
Nov 16 09:52:20 <raster> cool
Nov 16 09:52:27 <raster> so let the sd's double in size for a while
Nov 16 09:52:37 <raster> i'm just wondering if its worth it to have 2 slots
Nov 16 09:52:44 <raster> probalem is it adds size to devices
Nov 16 09:52:52 <raster> (and a little cost)
Nov 16 09:53:28 <SpeedEvil> A fair bit regrettablt.
Nov 16 09:53:40 <SpeedEvil> Counting sizes and case constraints, and ...
Nov 16 09:54:03 <raster> ?
Nov 16 09:54:14 <raster> regrettable?
Nov 16 09:54:31 <SpeedEvil> I mean adding a SD slot - another one - has lots of indirect costs past the costs of the socket.
Nov 16 09:54:57 <raster> well if u have sdio lines to kill
Nov 16 09:55:11 <raster> and u are good at board layotus so u can happilt run more lines around
Nov 16 09:55:33 <raster> u have the problem now with 2 mechanical slots tho
Nov 16 09:55:41 <raster> 2 points of user-stupidity now
Nov 16 09:58:27 <SpeedEvil> yeah - routing isn't so much of a problem - users, mechanical issues, more holes, ...
Nov 16 09:59:15 <raster> yeah
Nov 16 09:59:31 <raster> i'd always try "stick 1, 2 or more under the battery"
Nov 16 09:59:39 <raster> and leave at most 1 on the outside casing
Nov 16 09:59:55 <raster> a bit liek a sim card - they will likely not swap it much as it needs a shutdown
Nov 16 10:00:06 <raster> it minimizes the user issue anyway
Nov 16 16:10:57 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r1dbad49dba67 10/fsogsmd/src/ (lib/transport.vala plugins/modem_cinterion_mc75/plugin.vala): 
Nov 16 16:10:57 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: cinterion_mc75: create three channels using the multiplexing transport library
Nov 16 16:10:57 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: Yay, no more piping data through pty's...
Nov 16 16:31:23 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libgsm0710mux * rb704b4654da0 10/Makefile.am: make dist fixlet courtesy David 'Deubeuliou', thanks!
Nov 16 17:17:29 <cz_jc> hello, please anyone with experience with dbus around? :)
Nov 16 17:18:23 <cz_jc> I want to get my system messagebus to allow everything, I substituted every deny in /etc/dbus-1 to allow but still I get some rejected messages :/
Nov 16 17:18:30 <cz_jc> any answer is very much appreciated
Nov 16 17:24:04 <TAsn> cz_jc, I think #dbus will know better.
Nov 16 17:24:29 <cz_jc> TAsn, actually, noone replied for quite a while there..
Nov 16 17:25:00 <TAsn> they suck! :)
Nov 16 17:25:04 <cz_jc> seeing as OM fancies FSO which uses dbus, I thought I might find someone here..
Nov 16 17:25:22 <cz_jc> I want to get my stupid bluetooth working once for all, it gets borked with every dbus revision :/
Nov 16 17:25:51 <cz_jc> now I can't pair.. the actual pair requests get through but reply from pairing agent doesn't XD
Nov 16 17:25:59 <TAsn> man dbus then ;)
Nov 16 17:26:04 <cz_jc> even though I kicked out every deny I found..
Nov 16 17:26:20 <cz_jc> TAsn, yeah, I'm rebuilding dbus with docs now hoping I'll find someone there :)
Nov 16 17:26:29 <cz_jc> *something
Nov 16 17:26:39 <TAsn> just google for: "man dbus"
Nov 16 17:26:44 <TAsn> instead of building docs
Nov 16 17:28:09 <cz_jc> TAsn, found it ! policy description is in dbus-daemon(1) :) thanks :)
Nov 16 17:28:17 <TAsn> np.
Nov 16 18:17:49 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r738aa87644fa 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: Fix setup of the serial port
Nov 16 18:17:50 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r103fb56ec895 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: Unique naming for all functions
Nov 16 18:17:51 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rd84e3ed725c1 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: msmcommd: correct crc16_fcs calculation
Nov 16 18:17:54 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r9a2bd45491c6 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: msmcommd: add more debug_msg statements
Nov 16 18:17:54 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r8a5c090618e2 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: msmcommd: remove non essential info function
Nov 16 18:37:26 <daniel32708> Hi,  My A6 openmoko wont turn on. As soon as I put the battery on it, it tries to turn on (Red light and vibrates) but nothing happens.  My unit was working 10 minutes ago...          any hints?  thx!
Nov 16 18:40:30 <daniel32708> i also tried turning it on with just the ac power, ac+battery,  and same results...
Nov 16 18:44:29 <lindi-> daniel32708: does u-boot in NOR boot?
Nov 16 18:44:53 <daniel32708> nothing boots
Nov 16 18:45:03 <daniel32708> it just turns the side red light on
Nov 16 18:45:06 <daniel32708> and vibrates
Nov 16 18:45:11 <daniel32708> and does that over and over
Nov 16 18:45:15 <daniel32708> no screen activity
Nov 16 18:46:32 <lindi-> daniel32708: have you been able to boot u-boot from NOR before?
Nov 16 18:47:25 <daniel32708> YEP
Nov 16 18:47:32 <daniel32708> i have done it before
Nov 16 18:47:46 <lindi-> daniel32708: sounds like empty battery to me mostly
Nov 16 18:47:55 <daniel32708> but thats impossible
Nov 16 18:48:00 <daniel32708> it wasnt 10 minutes ago..
Nov 16 18:48:22 <daniel32708> well, it just turned on...
Nov 16 18:48:23 <daniel32708> weird
Nov 16 18:48:38 <daniel32708> thanx anyways lindi
Nov 16 18:50:41 <SpeedEvil> If it wasn't properly charging - it may have had enough charge to boot once
Nov 16 19:20:57 <rajeev_bash> hello everyone
Nov 16 20:00:50 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rca75875daab6 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: fsodeviced: change read/write time schedule time
Nov 16 20:00:51 <CIA-51> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rca75875daab6 10/msmcommd/src/msmcommd.c: fsodeviced: change read/write time schedule time
Nov 16 22:25:01 <danielpi> Hi everybody! I was just looking around to buy an openmoko freerunner, and found a shop selling it for 229€. It seems to be an A7 without buzz-bug. Can that be? I'm just confused, because it used to cost around 300€.
Nov 16 22:26:48 <ndnihil> I bought one, that means they dropped the price right after I did so
Nov 16 22:28:54 <PaulFertser> danielpi: yes
Nov 16 22:29:02 <PaulFertser> danielpi: by definition A7 comes with buzzfix preinstalled.
Nov 16 22:29:29 <danielpi> that's awesome.... i didn't expect it to be so cheap
Nov 16 22:29:30 <danielpi> cool
Nov 16 22:29:52 <PaulFertser> danielpi: buzzfix is trivial anyway, i tried it myself on 2 devices.
Nov 16 22:30:22 * Weiss ponders either buzzfixing his FR or ordering a second one
Nov 16 22:30:33 <danielpi> PaulFertser: sure, i read about that, but still it's more comfortable if it comes without buzz
Nov 16 22:31:12 <PaulFertser> danielpi: you'll still have buzz in the wired headset either way.
Nov 16 22:31:25 <danielpi> and just once more to be sure... it's usable as everyday phone isn't it!? SHR seems quite cool
Nov 16 22:31:35 <danielpi> PaulFertser: oh, I didn't know that one
Nov 17 01:30:49 <thegreen4me> does anyone know when the next shr unstable build will be out?
Nov 17 01:31:01 <thegreen4me> its been a few months since the last
Nov 17 01:32:01 <max_posedon> yesterday, today
Nov 17 01:32:10 <max_posedon> may be tomorrow)
Nov 17 01:34:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> after fixing this *one* bug that crept in while fixing the last *one* bug
Nov 17 01:35:23 <DocScrutinizer-8> and of course we need the new version of duke nukem forever
Nov 17 01:52:04 <kheldar> oh, great, openmoko seems not dead :D
Nov 17 01:52:47 <max_posedon> kheldar, depends what you mean under "openmoko"
Nov 17 01:53:20 <kheldar> os project I guess
Nov 17 01:53:47 <max_posedon> os project?! openmoko's os is regular Linux
Nov 17 01:53:55 <max_posedon> they never worked on it
Nov 17 01:54:05 <kheldar> can be debated
Nov 17 01:54:30 <kheldar> depends on what you call regular ;)
Nov 17 01:54:46 <max_posedon> glibc, X-based)
Nov 17 01:54:47 <kheldar> and what you call OS
Nov 17 01:56:02 <thegreen4me> and what the definition of is is
Nov 17 01:56:04 <max_posedon> we can't depate what *you* mean under word "openmoko"
Nov 17 01:56:31 <max_posedon> you know the answer)
Nov 17 01:56:36 <thegreen4me> just does anyone have any idea when the next shr will be out
Nov 17 01:57:17 <max_posedon> thegreen4me, yesterday, today, may be tomorrow)
Nov 17 01:58:52 <kheldar> indeed, but I was actually just wondering if it was still an active project given android' push, even on FreeRunner hardware
Nov 17 01:59:05 <kheldar> seems it is :D
Nov 17 01:59:17 <max_posedon> yep android project is still active
Nov 17 02:00:00 <kheldar> thx :D
Nov 17 02:26:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> nobody here likes android, as *that* really is debatable to be a real FOSS OS 
Nov 17 02:34:00 <max_posedon> DocScrutinizer-8, sometimes paniking visits this channel)
Nov 17 02:34:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> ok, maybe some guys like android
Nov 17 02:35:31 <DocScrutinizer-8> for me it's too googlish
Nov 17 02:36:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> google creates own browser - why?
Nov 17 02:36:47 <DocScrutinizer-8> google creates android - why?
Nov 17 02:37:16 <max_posedon> to your collection: google created own libc 
Nov 17 02:37:33 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'd prefer they'd join existing projects. But then they couldn't take over control
Nov 17 02:42:41 <DocScrutinizer-8> let me put it this way: at least an OS should be POSIX
Nov 17 02:50:58 * mwester agrees on the last point being a reasonable and rational minimum bar before one can claim "open".
Nov 17 02:51:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> hi mwester :-D
Nov 17 02:52:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> how's your eremitage going?
Nov 17 02:53:50 <mwester> Quiet, for now. :D
Nov 17 02:54:41 <DocScrutinizer-8> got some pinhole in your virtual prison?
Nov 17 02:55:25 <mwester> I have been given a week pass
Nov 17 02:55:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> ooh
Nov 17 02:55:40 <DocScrutinizer-8> :-D
Nov 17 02:56:10 <mwester> Yeah - and an offer letter, so I think I will sign the letter, and take my leave from the current contract.
Nov 17 02:56:26 <mwester> Nice folks, but I don't like their security. 
Nov 17 02:56:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> heh :-D
Nov 17 02:57:34 <mwester> I may be going to taiwan for a week or two next month... if that happens, I'll be asking for some travel advice from those more familiar with the customs there. :)
Nov 17 02:58:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> you're welcome
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 02:59:56 2009