**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 18 02:59:57 2009
Dec 18 05:22:10 <neonemo> hi everybody
Dec 18 05:22:48 <slaxxer> wassa
Dec 18 05:23:33 <neonemo> i want to buy a neo freerunner, but i m from argentina, can tell me someone how i do?
Dec 18 05:25:47 <Undrwater> neonemo: how do you usually buy your consumer electronics?
Dec 18 05:27:50 <neonemo> ok, the problem is that Neo freerunner is not a "ordinary" consumer electronics, it is not in my  head electronic shop
Dec 18 05:28:33 <neonemo> Do you are understanding me?
Dec 18 05:28:39 <Undrwater> so you typically buy from a shop...how about internet purchases?
Dec 18 05:29:07 <Undrwater> i think your main issue will be shipping
Dec 18 05:29:31 <neonemo> Exactly
Dec 18 05:30:35 <Undrwater> no trusted shipping companies in argentina?
Dec 18 05:32:13 <neonemo> really no
Dec 18 05:32:47 <neonemo> thanks for the idea, i tried it
Dec 18 05:33:39 <Undrwater> have you posted to the mailing list?
Dec 18 05:35:46 <neonemo> no no, would i duty it?
Dec 18 09:28:52 <rhkfin_> Hi! What's the status of SHR, is -testing already out? What are the biggest issues with -testing and -unstable?
Dec 18 09:32:08 <DocScrutinizer51> rhkfin_: see /topic. testing is recommended now
Dec 18 09:33:40 <rhkfin_> ah, thanks :)
Dec 18 09:34:16 <rhkfin_> Should this be removed from topic: Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009
Dec 18 09:35:07 <rhkfin_> Can anyone tell me the biggest challanges with -testing?
Dec 18 09:38:47 <DocScrutinizer51> rhkfin_: that's waht we like you for ;-P
Dec 18 09:39:11 <DocScrutinizer51> that's why it's called testing
Dec 18 09:40:40 <rhkfin_> :)
Dec 18 09:42:05 <rhkfin_> hmm.. no wonder I wasn't able to SSH in over USB.. I had FR on wall charger.. 
Dec 18 09:43:11 <DocScrutinizer51> lol
Dec 18 09:52:11 <lindi-> reminds me of my first ever experience with USB. after hours of debugging I realized I still need proprietary software (the BIOS) to enable the USB controller...
Dec 18 09:55:45 <Defiant-> ..had something like that 2 days ago with the keil µvision IDE. Needed 30-60 minutes to find out that I was debugging with the simulator, not the actual hardware
Dec 18 09:57:04 <lindi-> sounds proprietary :)
Dec 18 09:57:48 <Defiant-> it is but still gives me money
Dec 18 10:02:12 <tomcatek> anyone know why "silence" button wos removed from "connection incomming" screen un SHR unstable?
Dec 18 10:15:29 <badcloud_> is there something similar to method 3 from http://www.neofundas.blogspot.com/ for debian?
Dec 18 10:22:39 <Heinervdm> badcloud_: if debian is using fso then just set deep_sleep = never in frameworkd.conf
Dec 18 10:23:23 <rhkfin_> badcloud_: I did the #1024 yesterday and it was actually quite easy, method #1
Dec 18 10:24:04 <badcloud_> Heinervdm, I meant non-FSO
Dec 18 10:25:17 <Heinervdm> badcloud_: then i don't know, but software fix is always setting deep sleep to never, it can be done with an AT command too, but don't know how
Dec 18 10:25:21 <badcloud_> rhkfin_, I might try if I find courage one day about my soldering skills
Dec 18 10:26:03 <badcloud_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/1024#QT_based_distos_.28Qtopia.2C_QTExtended.2C_QTMoko....29
Dec 18 10:26:13 <badcloud_> would that work without the hw fix?
Dec 18 10:43:40 <emacsian> Can the android current cupcake version be installed on a 512M SD card ?
Dec 18 11:14:34 <panicking> I think so
Dec 18 11:14:43 <panicking> depends on howmuch space do you want to use
Dec 18 11:14:46 <panicking> for music
Dec 18 11:47:58 <pbaxter> hi all
Dec 18 11:54:31 <PaulFertser> panicking: hey, i see you did quite some work to improve the kernel again. Cool :)
Dec 18 11:55:14 <pbaxter> thanks panicking
Dec 18 12:06:02 <panicking> But need more testing
Dec 18 12:06:12 <panicking> today I will receive the debug board again
Dec 18 12:12:23 <pbaxter> panicking: ;)
Dec 18 12:20:44 <SpeedEvil> thanks!
Dec 18 12:33:40 <badcloud_> hey, pb
Dec 18 12:33:53 <badcloud_> how's it going?
Dec 18 13:14:25 <PBeck> hi
Dec 18 13:17:12 <nagromra> Hello All
Dec 18 13:18:02 <nagromra> Can others let me know their experiences synchronizing the data on the FreeRunner with GNU/Linux
Dec 18 13:19:44 <lindi-> nagromra: the data?
Dec 18 14:02:55 <dando> hi all
Dec 18 14:05:07 <dando> i have implemented a small application to convert a tangogps track file into a gpx file so openstreetmap or google map can read it.
Dec 18 14:05:24 <dando> will be available soon
Dec 18 14:09:42 <SpeedEvil> gpsbabel can do that can't it?
Dec 18 14:10:31 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TangoGPS - yeah
Dec 18 14:10:41 <SpeedEvil> But it's not very convenient maybe.
Dec 18 14:12:42 <dando> i dont know if gpsbabel can do it
Dec 18 14:12:57 <SpeedEvil> see the above page
Dec 18 14:13:02 <SpeedEvil> sorry. :/
Dec 18 14:13:27 <dando> its just  small shell application so you can convert the log files on  your freerunner.
Dec 18 14:16:48 <dando> ok it llredy exists
Dec 18 14:16:55 <dando> ;)
Dec 18 14:19:01 <SpeedEvil> learning stuff is never bad.
Dec 18 14:19:33 <dando> that is  true
Dec 18 14:20:35 <ndnihil> not true, imagine learning that your parents were into hardcore BDSM
Dec 18 14:20:57 <ndnihil> some things are better not known
Dec 18 14:33:55 <weatherhead> hi everyone, anyone know how to enable predictive keyboard in qtMoko v15
Dec 18 14:41:30 <nagromra> lindi: contacts, phone numbers and other relevant data that were pertain to any individual person entry
Dec 18 14:42:55 <lindi-> nagromra: ah, those probably depend on the dialer program  you use
Dec 18 14:46:06 <nagromra> well, optimally, i would want to sync with thunderbird or a pim that I could install on my system to do this well with the GUI alone
Dec 18 15:35:22 <weatherhead> is anybody using a finger keyboard on openmoko?
Dec 18 15:44:28 <DocScrutinizer51> literki?
Dec 18 16:00:48 <dando> i m using  an external keyboard
Dec 18 16:02:15 <weatherhead> I would like to use a decent predictive keyboard such as qtopia used to have
Dec 18 16:02:21 <weatherhead> but latest QTmoko images seem to have hosed it
Dec 18 16:19:24 <weatherhead> radekp: could you describe to me how to activate prediction on the qtmoko keyboard?
Dec 18 16:20:44 <radekp> weatherhead: i dont know :( was some gesture IIRC, but i dont use it
Dec 18 16:21:03 <radekp> weatherhead: maybe it's described somehere on mail list or wiki
Dec 18 16:21:19 <weatherhead> ok, well on the ML itr is described as a diagonal gesture
Dec 18 16:21:29 <weatherhead> which for me only changes the deletion behaviour
Dec 18 16:22:04 <weatherhead> i..e it changes from left slide -> delete one character, to left slide -> delete whole word
Dec 18 16:24:30 <weatherhead> which as I recall is how trhe predictive keyboard used to work
Dec 18 16:35:44 * mwester installed panicking 's android image, and notes that it constantly suspends and re-awakens while it is plugged into the host via usb... :(
Dec 18 16:36:37 <panicking> mwester, can you explain
Dec 18 16:36:37 <panicking> ?
Dec 18 16:37:52 <mwester> It's plugged into a host -- it suspends, then wakes up exactly 10 minutes later, and suspends again 5 seconds after awakening.
Dec 18 16:38:31 <mwester> My messages log is full of USB connect/disconnect messages as the RNDIS gadget starts and stops. :D
Dec 18 16:38:36 <lindi-> mwester: what's resume reason?
Dec 18 16:38:47 <mwester> No idea.  Not even sure how to tell on android.
Dec 18 16:38:51 <panicking> can you move to the #android-on-frerunner channel?
Dec 18 16:38:57 <mwester> sure.
Dec 18 16:39:05 <panicking> so we can talk about it
Dec 18 16:39:06 <lindi-> mwester: install omhacks and run "om resume-reason" :)
Dec 18 16:39:15 <weatherhead> radekp: I think I need to talk to the guy on the mailing list called "Leonardo" about this. Does he ever visit IRC?
Dec 18 16:41:32 <panicking> cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/resume_reason
Dec 18 16:42:01 <panicking> mwester, but what is the overall speed impression
Dec 18 16:42:15 <mwester> :) Not sure, I've not tried anything with it yet.
Dec 18 16:43:17 <mwester> I'll try to see if I can connect next time it resumes to find out why it resumed -- it'll be tough, because according to the log, I have 5 seconds once every 10 minutes to catch it.
Dec 18 16:44:01 <panicking> ok
Dec 18 16:59:16 <cz_jc> hello
Dec 18 16:59:18 <radekp> weatherhead: i think not anymore
Dec 18 16:59:39 <cz_jc> I keep loosing RTC settings in my GTA02v6 when main battery is removed even for a short while
Dec 18 16:59:53 <cz_jc> it kinda messes with my gentoo system
Dec 18 17:00:06 <cz_jc> any idea if that tiny backup battery is rechargeable or replaceable ?
Dec 18 17:00:42 <cz_jc> (I measured about 0.37V on it)
Dec 18 17:03:20 <cz_jc> am I correct it is the BAT1701 in sheet 4 in the schematic connected to BUBAT on the PCF ?
Dec 18 17:04:25 <cz_jc> bingo.. 3V seiko battery, so thats definitely drained, right ?
Dec 18 17:05:01 <SpeedEvil> yes - it should I think be chargable
Dec 18 17:05:20 <SpeedEvil> but it may take an extended period to charge - and also may die if deeply discharged
Dec 18 17:05:43 <cz_jc> I found the datasheet on mouser, reading it..
Dec 18 17:06:04 <cz_jc> SpeedEvil, yeah its rechargeable :)
Dec 18 17:06:16 <cz_jc> SpeedEvil, hah, 0.37V would be deep discharge, wouldn't it ?
Dec 18 17:06:19 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 18 17:06:27 <cz_jc> datasheet says 'cut off: 1.2V)
Dec 18 17:06:44 <cz_jc> so.. I need another backup battery :)
Dec 18 17:06:50 <cz_jc> looks kinda.. hard to solder XD
Dec 18 17:06:56 <SpeedEvil> :/
Dec 18 17:10:01 <cz_jc> damn, mouser doesn't ship it to Czech Republic :/
Dec 18 17:10:33 <cz_jc> so looks like its loose time on every SD replacement for me
Dec 18 17:11:46 <cz_jc> SpeedEvil, anyway, thanks for help tracking it down
Dec 18 17:45:28 <DocScrutinizer51> bupbat? have a shitload here
Dec 18 17:46:23 <DocScrutinizer51> cz_jc: query me if interested
Dec 18 18:44:53 <DocScrutinizer51> need some buzzfix sets as well?
Dec 18 18:49:59 <Martix_> DocScrutinizer-8: hi
Dec 18 18:50:37 <DocScrutinizer-8> hi
Dec 18 18:53:35 <Martix_> DocScrutinizer51: I am going to do another buzzfix party in Czech Republic
Dec 18 18:53:59 <UndrWater> no 1024?
Dec 18 18:54:04 <DocScrutinizer51> talk to cz_jc 
Dec 18 18:54:17 <Martix_> during April/May
Dec 18 18:54:26 <Martix_> DocScrutinizer51: I did :-)
Dec 18 18:54:35 <cz_jc> DocScrutinizer51, I'm already talking with him :)
Dec 18 18:54:36 <Martix_> UndrWater: 1024 too
Dec 18 18:54:51 <cz_jc> DocScrutinizer51, I told him to ask you for some other components so we can possibly combine the shipment
Dec 18 18:54:51 <DocScrutinizer51> need some buzzfix sets as well?
Dec 18 18:54:55 <UndrWater> wanna come to US? ;)
Dec 18 18:55:25 <Martix_> UndrWater: no, its too far away :-)
Dec 18 18:55:28 <cz_jc> DocScrutinizer51, (I'm already getting and filling DL envelopes as we speak)
Dec 18 18:55:28 <DocScrutinizer51> cz_jc: just write it on your wishlist :-)
Dec 18 18:56:14 <UndrWater> Martix_: i know..been trying to find someone who will do 1024 and bassfix
Dec 18 18:56:53 <cz_jc> DocScrutinizer51, uuh.. sure.. I'll just get from him what he wants already and ask you for cost estimate XD
Dec 18 18:57:35 <DocScrutinizer51> mah. please not another estimation
Dec 18 18:57:45 <Martix_> DocScrutinizer51: do you have parts for #1024 fix, too? and maybe some parts for bass fix, but its not priority :-)
Dec 18 18:58:04 <DocScrutinizer51> nope. sorry
Dec 18 18:59:06 <DocScrutinizer51> ask alphaone about parts for 1024
Dec 18 19:00:36 <Martix_> ok, thanks
Dec 18 19:04:21 <DocScrutinizer51> for bassfix you can use same big C as for buzzfix
Dec 18 19:05:31 <DocScrutinizer51> Martix_: I can send you a moderate amount of those
Dec 18 19:09:16 <Martix_> thanks, but I think its too soon for order, I am going to do this HW fix party during spring and dont know number of FRs, which will be fixed
Dec 18 19:25:47 <PaulFertser> Martix_: bassfix? What is your plan?
Dec 18 19:29:24 <PaulFertser> Martix_: because i already did it my way on 3 devices, all worked fine so far (excluding the fact i almost ruined one device by not placing additional isolation and shorting some cap by a deformed upper can lid, so beware, better place an additional sheet of paper or something inside before closing the can.
Dec 18 19:35:00 <Martix_> PaulFertser: ok
Dec 18 19:35:48 <PaulFertser> Martix_: the pictures on wiki lack the candypaper shield, without it i got nice sound whenever i used gprs or received calls/messages :)
Dec 18 19:36:35 <PaulFertser> Martix_: the guy told me that even with stock OM headset the bassfix is essential.
Dec 18 19:45:46 <UndrWater> maybe stupid queston...but this wouldn't impact bluetooth headset would it?
Dec 18 19:50:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> nope
Dec 18 19:51:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> there's not even any impact to the BT TX/RX performance of the antenna the capacitors are mounted next to in PaulFertserƤs design
Dec 18 19:55:17 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: yep, at least comparision of range done by (hcitool scan) between my fixed and mrmoku's unfixed device at F9C didn't find any differenc.
Dec 18 19:56:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> still I'd try to place the two big C nnnect to mic. There's a hole already for the wires ;-)
Dec 18 19:57:25 <DocScrutinizer-8> s/nnnect/next/
Dec 18 19:57:26 <apt> DocScrutinizer-8 meant: still I'd try to place the two big C next to mic. There's a hole already for the wires ;-)
Dec 18 19:59:51 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: next to mic? I thought you proposed next to backup battery.
Dec 18 20:00:19 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's almost the same, noaĆ¼
Dec 18 20:00:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> no?
Dec 18 20:00:58 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: it would be next to handset speaker i'd say :)
Dec 18 20:01:37 <DocScrutinizer-8> err. maybe another oops of my menory. probably you're right
Dec 18 20:27:06 <cz_jc> phew !
Dec 18 20:27:28 <cz_jc> is it normal that I get about 6V on my FR RTC battery when u-boot turns on ?
Dec 18 20:33:39 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: i think pcf50633 tries to charge it, i'd need to check the datasheet to tell the details.
Dec 18 20:34:05 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, well it definitely shouldn't get 5V, should it? :/
Dec 18 20:34:26 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: it's you who read the battery datasheet, so you should know better :)
Dec 18 20:34:49 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, there are several charge curves from 2.5 to 3.3V
Dec 18 20:35:03 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, its a constant current charge though, at 5uA
Dec 18 20:35:42 <cz_jc> maybe if it was real dead or something, but 5 and at times even 7V is weird i think, isn't it ?
Dec 18 20:36:01 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: gimme time
Dec 18 20:36:03 <cz_jc> thats more than twice the rated voltage
Dec 18 20:36:24 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, oh, you're checking it out? thanks :)
Dec 18 20:37:09 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, theres the battery datasheet: http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seiko-Instruments/HB414-IV01E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv%252bRg7RuaPulOEwbehdxWQx49HEia9RQ0Q%3d
Dec 18 20:37:23 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, theres small PDF icon and 'Data Sheet' on top
Dec 18 20:38:08 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: pcf50633 doesn't seem to allow charging with voltages over 3.15, so 6V is mad strange.
Dec 18 20:38:27 <cz_jc> hm
Dec 18 20:38:33 <cz_jc> I booted linux and its charging at 3V
Dec 18 20:38:51 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, yeah, I only get about 6V in u-boot
Dec 18 20:39:11 <cz_jc> and only when u-boot is on, when I turn it off (via menu item or battery removal), I again get 3V
Dec 18 20:39:52 <cz_jc> 3.00V with linux on and display off still..
Dec 18 20:40:40 <cz_jc> and 3.01V with linux suspended
Dec 18 20:40:51 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: i can't explain u-boot results...
Dec 18 20:41:08 <cz_jc> (but I have el-crapola hardware store multimeter so treat that as noise XD)
Dec 18 20:41:18 <cz_jc> it doesn't do noise in several volts though XD
Dec 18 20:46:05 <cz_jc> hmm.. in NOR u-boot I get the 3V too
Dec 18 20:46:36 <cz_jc> but when I turn off the phone cleanly from linux or from u-boot, charging is disabled as I again get about 1V and slowly decreasing
Dec 18 20:47:21 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: it's an interesting question why the hell almost all FR's got the backup battery disfunctional.
Dec 18 20:47:42 <cz_jc> funny thing
Dec 18 20:47:56 <cz_jc> when I cleanly halted from linux and started nand u-boot, it charges at 3V again
Dec 18 20:48:45 <cz_jc> and removing battery, reinserting and starting nand u-boot: correct 3V again
Dec 18 20:49:14 <cz_jc> looks like it charges with overvoltage only when main battery is removed, backup battery is drained, PCF loses data and nand u-boot is started..
Dec 18 20:49:47 <cz_jc> uh.. I meant.. then insert main battery and start u-boot
Dec 18 20:50:08 <cz_jc> because when PCF is reset and backup bat drained, just inserting main battery doesn't begin charging backup battery
Dec 18 20:51:11 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: yes, charging bbat can be done only in "Active" state.
Dec 18 20:51:37 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: so probably 6V is some pcf hardware bug, right?
Dec 18 20:52:18 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, absolutely no idea, I'll try to replicate my measurement again..
Dec 18 20:52:41 <cz_jc> I constantly left my FR without main battery and USB connection so it naturally got dried
Dec 18 20:53:40 <cz_jc> my theory is that u-boot doesn't set everything that needs to be set in the pcf and when its memory gets wiped, its badly initialized or whatever
Dec 18 20:55:58 <rhkfin_> anyone using the recetn shr-testing? What are the best bits, what are the worst bits? I have an old -unstable and will travel for a week soon and I'd like to know if it's worth to try -testing..
Dec 18 20:56:01 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: from reading the datasheet i can't see how to do that :)
Dec 18 20:56:15 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, I'm as puzzled by the 6V as you are..
Dec 18 20:56:34 <cz_jc> and only thing its connected to is the PCF bubat pin and ground
Dec 18 20:57:05 <cz_jc> there are a few cappacitors and one IC near it but how could it be some RF induction or something
Dec 18 21:06:13 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: have you reproduced it? Probably you just touched some nearby part without noticing?
Dec 18 21:06:28 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, I'm letting it drain now.. I'm about 0.7V
Dec 18 21:06:35 <cz_jc> when I'm at 0.6V again, I'll retry...
Dec 18 21:07:00 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: ok. So do you have any idea about defective batteries?
Dec 18 21:07:15 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, not a clue about li-ion cells
Dec 18 21:07:28 <cz_jc> those are finicky to work with as I know
Dec 18 21:07:32 <cz_jc> they kinda tend to explode a lot
Dec 18 21:07:39 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: deep discharge would be a reasonable guess.
Dec 18 21:08:03 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: (explode) i think you will be amazed to read the tests performed on gta01 bat to prove it's safe.
Dec 18 21:08:14 <cz_jc> yeah, they also loose capacity very rapidly when fully charged, fully discharged or at high temperatures
Dec 18 21:08:29 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, I meant li-ion cells without controllers :)
Dec 18 21:08:36 <cz_jc> (or under/overvoltage protections)
Dec 18 21:09:12 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: read the doc, it's really interesting: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf
Dec 18 21:09:36 <cz_jc> looks like the backup bat has no protection or controller whatsoever
Dec 18 21:09:56 <cz_jc> only some metal shield for temperature protection during soldering
Dec 18 21:10:10 <cz_jc> they're very precise about soldering instructions in the datasheet
Dec 18 21:10:19 <cz_jc> you're only allowed to exceed 200 C for about 20 seconds
Dec 18 21:12:44 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, huh? thats the same as the FR battery pack datasheet, except different circuit, isn't it ?
Dec 18 21:13:01 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, I totally beleive those, I don't beleive the tiny RTC battery :)
Dec 18 21:13:22 <cz_jc> I'd guess at least some gases would leak if you overcharged that one
Dec 18 21:13:58 <cz_jc> AFAIK, the FR cell protection circuits disconnects ground from li-ion cell on bad electrical conditions
Dec 18 21:14:36 <cz_jc> aand I see I'm on 0.5V, gonna retry :)
Dec 18 21:14:59 <cz_jc> inserting main battery.. it raised to 0.6V
Dec 18 21:15:21 <cz_jc> (but thats because I removed the meter and reinserted it, it retains some voltage)
Dec 18 21:15:50 <cz_jc> now started NAND u-boot and I get 2.95V
Dec 18 21:16:01 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, sorry looks like I indeed touched some other component or something
Dec 18 21:16:12 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: :))
Dec 18 21:18:49 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: (datasheet) my point is that it received pretty harsh testing, and most of that didn't involve internal curcuity.
Dec 18 21:19:56 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, but thats for the main battery pack in gta01, isn't it ?
Dec 18 21:20:08 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: yes, but i guess the lion cells are the same.
Dec 18 21:20:36 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: as in gta02. It's just interesting to read about battery packs, i do not say that tiny rtc battery is the same :)
Dec 18 21:20:52 <cz_jc> yeah, its weird though
Dec 18 21:21:04 <cz_jc> how do you get 3V in a tiny li-ion button-y cell
Dec 18 21:21:24 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: looks like gta02 lacks protection of bupbat from deep discharge and that is the reason it degraded in almost all devices.
Dec 18 21:22:09 <cz_jc> yeah.. because people seldom used their FR as main phone and it was often left powered off apparently :)
Dec 18 21:23:05 <cz_jc> hehe its really cool how open Freerunner is, you get wiki entries on how to disassemble it, connect jtag and stuff and even huge rings for cpu connections XD
Dec 18 21:23:40 <cz_jc> I gotta make a tiny internal gadget someday
Dec 18 21:24:02 <lindi-> cz_jc: rings?
Dec 18 21:24:07 <cz_jc> I was thinking outside temperature and light sensor (that one for regulating LCD brightness)
Dec 18 21:24:48 <cz_jc> lindi-, yeah, its on the bottom side of the PCB
Dec 18 21:25:52 <badcloud_> does the freerunner have multitouch capability?
Dec 18 21:26:12 <max_posedon> badcloud_, no
Dec 18 21:26:13 <cz_jc> badcloud_, nope
Dec 18 21:26:25 <lindi-> cz_jc: there's already a temperature sensor
Dec 18 21:26:34 <cz_jc> lindi-, you mean the one in the battery cell ?
Dec 18 21:26:40 <cz_jc> thats kinda useless for env temperature :)
Dec 18 21:26:43 <lindi-> cz_jc: yep
Dec 18 21:26:48 <lindi-> cz_jc: it's not if the phone is in suspend
Dec 18 21:26:53 <badcloud_> nuts, that doesn't fair well for handheld game console emu's
Dec 18 21:26:54 <cz_jc> lindi-, thats true
Dec 18 21:27:03 <lindi-> cz_jc: my phone wakes up every our to log the temperature
Dec 18 21:27:07 <lindi-> s/our/hour/
Dec 18 21:27:08 <apt> lindi- meant: cz_jc: my phone wakes up every hour to log the temperature
Dec 18 21:27:12 <cz_jc> badcloud_, you can't play many games on FR really
Dec 18 21:27:19 <cz_jc> just stuff like solitaire and duke nukem 3D
Dec 18 21:27:23 <badcloud_> I've noticed that
Dec 18 21:27:34 <badcloud_> shy of external input devices, of course
Dec 18 21:27:40 <cz_jc> lindi-, lol thats cool
Dec 18 21:28:00 <cz_jc> lindi-, nice idea
Dec 18 21:28:00 <badcloud_> so what *is* there to do with one aside from writing software for it??
Dec 18 21:28:17 <cz_jc> badcloud_, why shy ?
Dec 18 21:28:24 <cz_jc> badcloud_, you got USB host for gods sakes
Dec 18 21:28:33 <cz_jc> badcloud_, you can plug in USB hub with keyboard and mouse
Dec 18 21:28:44 <cz_jc> and hal just hotplugs them to Xorg and you get that input
Dec 18 21:29:21 <cz_jc> I set up unclutter to hide mouse cursor after a few seconds of inactivity
Dec 18 21:29:50 <badcloud_> cz_jc, I meant you can't really game with it except for with external input
Dec 18 21:30:04 <cz_jc> badcloud_, oh yeah, did I also mention wifi (remote control with synergy from other pc), bluetooth (hid keyboards/mice), etc ?
Dec 18 21:30:16 <cz_jc> badcloud_, yeah, thats true..
Dec 18 21:30:17 <badcloud_> sure, that's all good
Dec 18 21:30:24 <badcloud_> so aside from telephony
Dec 18 21:30:27 <cz_jc> duke nukem with accelerometers was pretty good though
Dec 18 21:30:33 <badcloud_> what do you guys actually do with your phones?
Dec 18 21:30:45 <cz_jc> I develop php webapps on mine
Dec 18 21:30:48 <badcloud_> haven't tried duke yet aside from one time
Dec 18 21:31:00 <badcloud_> *aside* from development
Dec 18 21:31:15 <badcloud_> what do you guys actually *do* with your phones?
Dec 18 21:31:16 <cz_jc> well, schoolwork tracker
Dec 18 21:31:32 <cz_jc> oh yeah, I also used it as a gps in unfamiliar areas several times
Dec 18 21:31:38 <badcloud_> I just feel like I'm wasting a wonderful piece of machinery
Dec 18 21:31:48 <badcloud_> apart from calls and using remind as my calendar
Dec 18 21:31:59 <badcloud_> I don't do crap diddly with it
Dec 18 21:32:01 <cz_jc> badcloud_, also try openvibe XD
Dec 18 21:32:49 <badcloud_> mokomaze is cute
Dec 18 21:32:57 <cz_jc> that too
Dec 18 21:33:11 <cz_jc> its a spoof on the HTC game shipped with Diamond Touch :)
Dec 18 21:33:18 <badcloud_> ah
Dec 18 21:33:27 <cz_jc> that one had a windows flag in it XD
Dec 18 21:33:37 <badcloud_> I'm sure if I were a hacker I'd have much more use for the phone
Dec 18 21:33:38 <cz_jc> (in the finish hole I think)
Dec 18 21:33:46 <badcloud_> or cracker/etc
Dec 18 21:33:59 <cz_jc> mokomaze in first versions had fain windows flags in the loose holes
Dec 18 21:34:07 <cz_jc> I found that hysterically funny XD
Dec 18 21:34:08 <badcloud_> I remember
Dec 18 21:34:12 <badcloud_> me too
Dec 18 21:34:14 <cz_jc> *faint
Dec 18 21:34:24 <badcloud_> they never should have edited that out
Dec 18 21:34:32 <cz_jc> my thought exactly
Dec 18 21:34:36 <badcloud_> :)
Dec 18 21:34:46 <cz_jc> lets do a fork XD
Dec 18 21:34:52 <badcloud_> word
Dec 18 21:35:12 <badcloud_> ummm, how do you do that? :P
Dec 18 21:35:23 <cz_jc> first you register on sourceforge
Dec 18 21:35:36 <cz_jc> then you checkout their mokomaze and check it in your sourceforge svn
Dec 18 21:35:43 <cz_jc> then you call it a mokomaze fork
Dec 18 21:35:47 <cz_jc> and you got a fork XD
Dec 18 21:36:00 <cz_jc> then you redraw some images and do a second commit
Dec 18 21:36:11 <cz_jc> finally calling it 'its now different than mokomaze'
Dec 18 21:36:55 <badcloud_> well, sounds like a bit of work
Dec 18 21:37:14 <badcloud_> if you do it, don't forget to credit me for moral support ;)
Dec 18 21:37:19 <cz_jc> I wonder if a patch like 'we want windows loose flags back !' would get in XD
Dec 18 21:37:30 <cz_jc> badcloud_, lol np XD
Dec 18 21:38:06 <badcloud_> I wonder if there's some website with a list of debian touchscreen games
Dec 18 21:38:35 <cz_jc> badcloud_, try pygame stuff too
Dec 18 21:38:48 <badcloud_> cool, thanks
Dec 18 21:38:51 <cz_jc> I saw the performance isn't really bad with games that don't redraw entire screen and just use sprites, etc
Dec 18 21:39:21 <max_posedon> neo is bad for all, except "being dev platform"
Dec 18 21:39:27 <cz_jc> of course, I got about half a fps on glxgears XD
Dec 18 21:39:31 <max_posedon> but as for this, its extermelly cool
Dec 18 21:39:48 <cz_jc> max_posedon, so true
Dec 18 21:39:52 <cz_jc> max_posedon, hows it going ?
Dec 18 21:40:12 <max_posedon> fine
Dec 18 21:46:57 <cz_jc> some phoenix wright-like games would be nice on the FR I think
Dec 18 21:47:15 <cz_jc> mostly text novel adventures with simple touch interface
Dec 18 21:48:56 <badcloud_> scummvm isn't bad on a nostagic level
Dec 18 21:49:13 <cz_jc> hmm.. that stupid backup bat has larger leakage than an electrolytic cappacitor
Dec 18 21:49:39 <cz_jc> I was charging it for hour or so with 3V and it drows to 2V in just a few seconds and then slowly down to 0.5V over about a minute
Dec 18 21:50:18 <badcloud_> yikes
Dec 18 21:50:21 <SpeedEvil> sounds likely broken
Dec 18 21:50:55 <badcloud_> max, I disagree, though
Dec 18 21:51:13 <badcloud_> the neo works well as a media player
Dec 18 21:51:24 <cz_jc> I don't think so..
Dec 18 21:51:37 <cz_jc> if you like listening to music on the loudspeaker then maybe..
Dec 18 21:51:37 <badcloud_> really? where would you say it falls short?
Dec 18 21:51:45 <badcloud_> nah, headphones
Dec 18 21:52:21 <cz_jc> badcloud_, you didn't listen to a normal el-crapola cheap mp3 player in quite a while on the same headphones, did you? :)
Dec 18 21:52:29 <cz_jc> its.. quite a difference..
Dec 18 21:52:35 <badcloud_> I'd imagine
Dec 18 21:52:36 <max_posedon> badcloud_, I haven't bass-fix
Dec 18 21:52:49 <cz_jc> yeah, me neither
Dec 18 21:52:56 <max_posedon> and my bluetooth headphones for some reason don't works well
Dec 18 21:53:00 <badcloud_> me neither, but a pocket amp will do in a pinch, no?
Dec 18 21:53:03 <max_posedon> music "laggying"
Dec 18 21:53:10 <cz_jc> badcloud_, on that point, yes
Dec 18 21:53:20 <cz_jc> its quite good actually when I connect it to aux input in my car
Dec 18 21:53:20 <max_posedon> I can't by poket amp in my country
Dec 18 21:53:35 <cz_jc> max_posedon, you can easilly make one ;)
Dec 18 21:53:47 <max_posedon> but yes, phone good enough when I attach it to my "stereo".
Dec 18 21:53:55 <max_posedon> cz_jc, nope, _I_ can't
Dec 18 21:53:59 <badcloud_> anyhoo, I'll find some other things to do with mine
Dec 18 21:54:00 <cz_jc> max_posedon, in fact when we were under communist occupation, this kinda tinkering was encouraged by our comrades
Dec 18 21:54:13 <badcloud_> and when I do, I'll tell you guys about it here
Dec 18 21:54:18 <badcloud_> g'night all :)
Dec 18 21:54:25 <cz_jc> badcloud_, bye :)
Dec 18 21:54:47 <cz_jc> max_posedon, you don't have electronic component stores ?
Dec 18 21:55:02 <cz_jc> max_posedon, you can't buy like an 741 amplifier IC or something ?
Dec 18 21:55:07 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: no amount of amplification can make FR sound decent, one needs bass fix no matter what.
Dec 18 21:55:17 <max_posedon> I haven't such skills at all
Dec 18 21:55:26 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, when you have input with high impedance, sound isn't that bad
Dec 18 21:55:35 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, opamp is pretty good for that
Dec 18 21:55:52 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: are you sure? Have you looked at the schematics? There're two pulldowns in parallel to the output :(
Dec 18 21:56:18 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, I heard it myself.. its much better than with headphones
Dec 18 21:57:07 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: tried comparing with any reasonable portable player attached to the the same amp?
Dec 18 21:57:11 <cz_jc> max_posedon, its really simple, you just need a soldering iron, some solder, a protoboard the IC and a few other components you get at electronics store for very cheap :)
Dec 18 21:57:32 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, yeah.. of course my chinese mp3 was better but the bass weren't so unpreasent
Dec 18 21:57:42 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, the overal sound was kinda 'flat' though
Dec 18 21:57:54 <max_posedon> cz_jc, I already have bluetooth headphones, and want them!)
Dec 18 21:58:05 <cz_jc> as if it was overdriven and silent anyway
Dec 18 21:58:18 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: R4116 and R4117 are our enemies. I think if you remove them altogether, you'll get proper sound with high-z amp.
Dec 18 21:58:49 <cz_jc> seeing as I have my FR disassembled here already, lemme check XD
Dec 18 21:58:53 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: btw, i know fellow who uses his FR to listen via a2dp and it works pretty good for him.
Dec 18 21:59:37 <max_posedon> I know, I want retry my experiments during holidays near NY
Dec 18 22:00:02 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: i can give you his jid i think, moreover he's russian so you might find it more comfortable to discuss BT issues with him.
Dec 18 22:01:07 <max_posedon> fine, thanks, later
Dec 18 22:01:10 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: before you close the main can please add some insulation to be 100% sure you do not short some high-profile caps with the can lid.
Dec 18 22:02:00 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, oh its inside the metal shield ?
Dec 18 22:02:04 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, i won't open that...
Dec 18 22:02:22 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: it takes me ~20 min to open that the first time on a new device :(
Dec 18 22:04:01 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, hmm. I see no pulldowns in the schematic
Dec 18 22:04:14 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: but probably it's easier and more beneficial to add the caps than to remove r411[67], they're located just under the can holder.
Dec 18 22:04:26 <cz_jc> oh I c, its on sheet 7
Dec 18 22:04:28 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: the pdf is searchable :)
Dec 18 22:04:29 <cz_jc> hidiously hidden :)
Dec 18 22:05:06 <cz_jc> oh god
Dec 18 22:05:11 <cz_jc> 1uF decoupling caps
Dec 18 22:05:15 <cz_jc> whoever thought of that ?
Dec 18 22:05:22 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: mad TPE "engineers"
Dec 18 22:05:35 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, TPE ?
Dec 18 22:05:39 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: taiwain
Dec 18 22:05:45 <cz_jc> oh..
Dec 18 22:05:51 <PaulFertser> Hm, tpe is apparently easier to type right :)
Dec 18 22:06:04 <cz_jc> oh well.. its not like I can design mobile phones
Dec 18 22:06:15 <cz_jc> look at me bitching here XD
Dec 18 22:06:45 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: it's not like those guys could design anything either :(
Dec 18 22:06:56 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, apperently it works XD
Dec 18 22:07:02 <cz_jc> somehow, it works
Dec 18 22:07:27 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: heh, after so many gta01 and gta02 revisions it's not that surprising :)
Dec 18 22:07:40 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, how many unofficial were there? XD
Dec 18 22:08:03 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: no idea, i think all of the produced boards are mentioned on the wiki "officially".
Dec 18 22:08:09 <cz_jc> but the internals are totally esoteric, I love just looking at it
Dec 18 22:08:21 <cz_jc> its all wired in and glued together XD
Dec 18 22:09:04 <cz_jc> I love how the GPS module just falls out of it when you first open the case XD
Dec 18 22:09:16 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: it's not the module, only antenna.
Dec 18 22:09:30 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: with an integrated amp i assume :)
Dec 18 22:09:34 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, huh? whats the brown brick on it ?
Dec 18 22:10:35 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: btw, the last time i assembled FR it took me ~5 times because i was forgetting either gps antenna or gsm antenna or both :)
Dec 18 22:10:53 <cz_jc> hehe :)
Dec 18 22:11:01 <cz_jc> I love the speaker plastics
Dec 18 22:11:11 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: the "silly white thingie"?
Dec 18 22:11:19 <cz_jc> I'm thinking about drilling through it so that sound gets to the other hole too
Dec 18 22:11:25 <cz_jc> yep :)
Dec 18 22:11:44 <cz_jc> its really hideous when you watch a movie up close on it and it sounds only on one side
Dec 18 22:11:59 <cz_jc> thats got to be one of the easiest FR hardware reworks XD
Dec 18 22:14:07 <cz_jc> what do you know.. the white plastic thing splits in two, hehehe :)
Dec 18 22:14:19 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: after my friend bought his new nokia phone he showed me it and then said "listen" and pushed it right to my nose. And i heard real stereo indeed. Couldn't think of any usecase for that though, holding a phone horizontally right near the nose doesn't seem to be a good idea mostly.
Dec 18 22:14:54 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, what about watching movies in bed? I hate wearing glasses so I just have it really close to my head..
Dec 18 22:15:32 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: for that phone it wouldn't work, you need to hold it horizontally and really close to hear decent stereo, so you won't see the screen :)
Dec 18 22:17:01 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, for FR, even if its slightly close, it feels like you're dead on the left ear :)
Dec 18 22:17:05 <cz_jc> *deaf
Dec 18 22:17:06 <cz_jc> omg XD
Dec 18 22:17:12 <PaulFertser> :D
Dec 18 22:17:50 <cz_jc> crazy idea
Dec 18 22:18:27 <cz_jc> what if I put a mono jack connector inside the antenna connector slit and ran cables directly instead of the internal loudspeaker ?
Dec 18 22:19:11 <cz_jc> hmm.. its a shame it doesn't have a second loudspeaker connector
Dec 18 22:20:42 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: gta01 was stereo. But everybody considered that useless.
Dec 18 22:20:53 <cz_jc> yeah, I saw :)
Dec 18 22:21:12 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: you can try connecting two speakers in parallel i think.
Dec 18 22:21:55 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, that was my thought.. but I dunno if its better to have a good pseudo-stereo and no loudspeaker or bad stereo and a loudspeaker
Dec 18 22:23:52 <cz_jc> I spy with my little eye rings with SPI_MISO, SPI_MOSI and SPI_CLK written near them
Dec 18 22:23:57 <cz_jc> mmm.. juicy
Dec 18 22:26:25 <PaulFertser> cz_jc: n900 and other maemo guys would never understood that :(
Dec 18 22:27:14 <cz_jc> PaulFertser, freerunner just begs for a tiny microcontroller-based parasite inside of it :)
Dec 18 22:27:29 <cz_jc> I just can't think of any good one now..
Dec 18 22:27:46 <SpeedEvil> My 901A eeepc has quite good stereo, if you balance it on top of your head.
Dec 18 22:28:53 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: :)
Dec 18 22:30:35 <cz_jc> I don't really care for stereo, I just wanna hear music on both sizes XD
Dec 18 22:30:41 <cz_jc> *sides
Dec 18 22:30:46 <cz_jc> goddamn that beer
Dec 18 22:31:13 * cz_jc is drilling a path through the white thingy with speaker in it
Dec 18 22:32:35 <cz_jc> but you gotta hand it to taiwan engineers with the loudspeaker
Dec 18 22:32:45 <cz_jc> thanks to that tiny resonance chamber, it actually haves some good bass
Dec 19 00:01:13 <UndrWater> shr-today config is gone...is there a new one, or does it get configured differently?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 19 02:59:56 2009