**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 29 02:59:57 2009
Dec 29 03:00:26 <Broam> Evening all
Dec 29 03:04:23 <Broam> I'm now sitting in front of my FreeRunner A7, charging for the first time.
Dec 29 03:13:25 <Broam> ...and I am so lost.
Dec 29 05:11:55 <alabd> Hi , Can other software maps be used with tangoGPS ?
Dec 29 05:29:23 <slaxxer> osm,google 2 other options   in the settings
Dec 29 05:29:45 <slaxxer> booting latest shr testing
Dec 29 05:30:04 <slaxxer> 1218
Dec 29 05:30:52 <slaxxer> did u get shr testing to work?
Dec 29 05:31:10 <slaxxer> DOC
Dec 29 05:31:37 <slaxxer> is there core hardware yet?
Dec 29 05:31:48 <alabd> slaxxer: hi yes that is ok now
Dec 29 05:32:05 <alabd> but which format maps can be used with tangogps ?
Dec 29 05:32:20 <slaxxer> i dont know
Dec 29 05:32:58 <alabd> slaxxer: so from where you got your city maps ?
Dec 29 05:32:59 <slaxxer> might even be able to display other stuff besides maps   
Dec 29 05:33:18 <slaxxer> osm
Dec 29 05:34:41 <slaxxer>  there is a site
Dec 29 05:35:12 <alabd> for example at all how to know fr gets gps signals now ?
Dec 29 05:35:50 <alabd> slaxxer: yes here http://www.openstreetmap.org/ but does it have city mapS?
Dec 29 05:36:17 <slaxxer> incomplete  i guess
Dec 29 05:37:01 <alabd> ok how to know if it is complete or not ?
Dec 29 05:37:23 <slaxxer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TangoGPS
Dec 29 05:38:21 <alabd> thanks
Dec 29 05:40:13 <slaxxer> :)
Dec 29 05:40:51 <slaxxer> u have to supply your own mapps mann
Dec 29 05:45:29 <slaxxer> ultra dimming
Dec 29 05:46:29 <slaxxer> can open 2 instances of contacts   thats prolly not good 
Dec 29 05:47:52 <slaxxer> seems faster
Dec 29 05:48:04 <slaxxer> alot
Dec 29 06:20:31 <slaxxer> wifi flacking
Dec 29 08:34:27 <ndnihil> woot, the FR can talk to the Spykee
Dec 29 08:35:17 <ndnihil> the wireless chipset built into my laptop doesnt like it, but the Realtek chipset dongle and the FR can talk to it with no problems
Dec 29 08:36:05 <ndnihil> (spykee is a cheap arm9+linux based robot with wifi and webcam)
Dec 29 08:42:35 <rhkfin> nice :)
Dec 29 09:05:33 <panicking> Hi all
Dec 29 09:05:45 <panicking> anyone know where I can download the shr alsa scenarii
Dec 29 09:05:48 <panicking> ?
Dec 29 09:05:54 <panicking> without download all shr
Dec 29 09:10:06 <panicking> no problem
Dec 29 09:10:06 <panicking> find
Dec 29 09:19:08 <badcloud_> hey pips
Dec 29 09:27:12 <badcloud_> I'm trying to compile remind under shr-t but can't set up the compiler system to save my life. how difficult is it to set up a cross-compiling system on a standard desktop?
Dec 29 09:28:06 <badcloud_> seems like there are libraries missing, libc_nonshared.a for one
Dec 29 09:36:20 <rhkfin> badcloud_: AFAIK not difficult if things work. AFAIK, they usually don't.
Dec 29 09:40:18 <badcloud_> rhkfin, well put
Dec 29 09:41:42 <rhkfin> One of the Openmoko Challanges has allways been the lack of proper cross-compiling environment. From what I've heard, it's never been well documented..
Dec 29 09:41:57 <badcloud_> I see
Dec 29 09:42:41 <rhkfin> I don't understand much about this but this should tell you something about it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_a_hello_world_application - but it's most likely outdated..
Dec 29 09:43:00 <lindi-> rhkfin: i don't think there are enough people to maintain an openmoko specific toolchain
Dec 29 09:43:08 <rhkfin> right
Dec 29 09:43:15 <rhkfin> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
Dec 29 09:43:28 <lindi-> rhkfin: one can get armel toolchains from different sources already
Dec 29 09:43:40 <lindi-> rhkfin: emdebian, scratchbox, ...
Dec 29 09:43:52 <rhkfin> badcloud_: ^
Dec 29 09:44:01 <badcloud_> thanks
Dec 29 09:44:21 <lindi-> badcloud_: and of course emulation is the easiest solution
Dec 29 09:53:54 <badcloud_> lindi-, is there a fairly comprehensive guide for that?
Dec 29 10:48:48 <panicking> hi all
Dec 29 10:49:06 <panicking> is there a bluetooth expert here
Dec 29 10:49:07 <panicking> ?
Dec 29 10:49:35 <panicking> I have a Parrot device
Dec 29 10:49:40 <panicking> and use with freerunner
Dec 29 10:49:47 <panicking> I have this error
Dec 29 10:50:05 <panicking> : D-Bus error: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod (Method "Connect" with signature "" on interface "org.bluez.audio.Sink" doesn't exist
Dec 29 10:50:42 <PaulFertser> panicking: hey
Dec 29 10:51:18 <PaulFertser> panicking: bluez4 info is at the om wiki, it's a little bit outdated wrt using `pidof bluetoothd` but otherwise it's good.
Dec 29 10:51:20 <panicking> PaulFertser, anyone has a parrot car handsfree
Dec 29 10:51:24 <Heinervdm> panicking: then you're missing an argument
Dec 29 10:51:58 <PaulFertser> panicking: so have you tried looking there for bluez4 info? Manually_using_bluetooth
Dec 29 10:52:16 <panicking> Yes, but I don't have all the support on android filesystem
Dec 29 10:52:21 <panicking> the signature
Dec 29 10:52:23 <panicking> is missed
Dec 29 10:52:24 <panicking> ?
Dec 29 10:53:10 <PaulFertser> panicking: i guess you're using some outdated bluez3 guide
Dec 29 10:57:24 <PaulFertser> panicking: i tell you om wiki has some bluez4 info. And bluez4 sources have "doc" directory with an almost comprehensive API documentation.
Dec 29 10:58:03 <panicking> ok
Dec 29 10:58:04 <panicking> thanks
Dec 29 10:59:32 <PaulFertser> panicking: and test directory has some example python programs, they're easy to understand.
Dec 29 10:59:37 <PaulFertser> panicking: are you trying to do SCO?
Dec 29 11:00:22 <PaulFertser> panicking: beware that the chip in FR does SCO over PCM interface (not hci!) by default and there's no easy documented method to switch that (though i know one).
Dec 29 11:02:04 <PaulFertser> panicking: gtg, feel free to ping me for bluez questions
Dec 29 11:02:09 <PaulFertser> cu
Dec 29 13:30:53 <SM2k> yay netsplit
Dec 29 14:43:55 <ftn> Hey there. which shr version should I choose if I'm looking for stability? pls
Dec 29 14:46:02 <Zzorkman> ftn: 1. haven't had time to play with my FR for months, but I would suggest testing
Dec 29 14:46:18 <Zzorkman> 2. better askin #openmoko-cdevel, most shr people/devs are there
Dec 29 14:46:36 <ftn> alright, thanks
Dec 29 14:46:43 <Zzorkman> no problem
Dec 29 14:47:46 <tomcatek> ftn: if You are not afraid of making some adjustments after upgrades (sometimes) You can use unstable
Dec 29 14:48:11 <tomcatek> ftn: testing is more "boring" ;)
Dec 29 14:48:54 <ftn> ummm, I like changing settings and that stuff, but I'm also looking for a stable wifi and gprs conenction
Dec 29 14:49:55 <Zorkman> I used to always use unstable, but I have no idea how stable it is nowadays...
Dec 29 14:54:47 <babamelone> Hi, Im using SHR, but I dont find a possibility to install eve web browser
Dec 29 14:55:08 <babamelone> it is in the feeds, but it doesnt install by opkg install eve
Dec 29 14:57:33 <tomcatek> ftn: on my SHR unstable connections works very stable
Dec 29 14:59:08 <ftn> babamelone might seem unimportant but have you tried "opkg update" first
Dec 29 14:59:11 <ftn> ?
Dec 29 14:59:37 <babamelone> yes
Dec 29 15:00:12 <babamelone> but it was in the feeds before too, and opkg update didnt change anything
Dec 29 15:15:29 <babamelone> okay, I found out the source of the problem, libewebkit(enlightenment) and libwebkit(gtk) provide the same file, so opkg cannot have both installed simultaneously. The file is called error.html, so I assume it is the same file. How can I tell opkg to ignore this error
Dec 29 15:16:56 <lindi-> babamelone: you should fix the packages?
Dec 29 15:17:39 <babamelone> How can I achieve this? And should they be fixed, because obviously both packages need the error page!
Dec 29 15:22:57 <lindi-> babamelone: the error page should be moved to a common package
Dec 29 15:23:32 <babamelone> k, well how do I handle this?
Dec 29 15:23:44 <babamelone> Or where can I report this problem
Dec 29 15:24:35 <lindi-> babamelone: who providede the package?
Dec 29 15:24:53 <babamelone> shr, it is in the standard shr feeds
Dec 29 15:25:25 <lindi-> babamelone: well then report it to shr?
Dec 29 18:12:35 <lindi-> alphaone|gone: ping?
Dec 29 18:15:04 <PaulFertser> lindi-: do you have any opinion on kernel<->userspace API for a general purpose data aquisition board? I think a mode where you set parameters (freq, channels, gain etc) through sysfs nodes and get data through input subsystem would be nice to have, no?
Dec 29 18:15:27 <PaulFertser> lindi-: and our g-meter drivers already use input subsystem to report EV_ABS data.
Dec 29 18:15:33 <lindi-> PaulFertser: not sure
Dec 29 18:16:52 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i'd like to have two modes: low-freq stuff through input subsystem and high-perf mode where userspace mmaps the kernel memory where the data is DMA'd by the card. The second is a lot more involving both for driver and userspace.
Dec 29 18:17:08 <lindi-> PaulFertser: at work we use ADAM/NUDAM bus to control gain and offset of AD converters and a ioctl() on a node on /dev or setting sampling rates
Dec 29 18:17:22 <lindi->  s/ or/ for/
Dec 29 18:20:56 <PaulFertser> lindi-: so what do you propose for a PCI DAQ board?
Dec 29 18:21:50 <lindi-> PaulFertser: this was PCI daq board but i don't really know what to suggest :(
Dec 29 18:22:59 <PaulFertser> lindi-: what would you prefer from a userspace pov? I think for fast prototyping a low-freq interface like i suggest might work ok, no?
Dec 29 18:23:30 <lindi-> PaulFertser: why not have only one interface and a library to handle the complexity
Dec 29 18:24:04 <lindi-> i'd hate to see a bug that only affects one inteface
Dec 29 18:24:32 <PaulFertser> lindi-: well, first reason is that i'm not ready to implement the complex solution (dma and mmaped buffers) right now :) and all documentation i have for dma with this board are windows driver sources :)
Dec 29 18:24:57 <lindi-> PaulFertser: this board had docs but also a long list of bugs afaik
Dec 29 18:25:32 <lindi-> PaulFertser: if you can suggest some externally syncable pci* DAQ card that can do at least four channels please let me know :
Dec 29 18:25:44 <lindi-> hrm, this wireless keyboard keeps dropping characters
Dec 29 18:28:52 <PaulFertser> lindi-: the one i work has a way to trigger a conversion externally, provides 16 12-bit differential channels, costs <$450
Dec 29 18:29:34 <lindi-> PaulFertser: but can it take external clock input?
Dec 29 18:30:01 <PaulFertser> lindi-: for triggering ADC conversions?
Dec 29 18:30:10 <lindi-> PaulFertser: yes
Dec 29 18:30:13 <PaulFertser> lindi-: yes
Dec 29 18:30:25 <lindi-> PaulFertser: ok, but the problem seems to be lack of docs/drivers?
Dec 29 18:31:05 <PaulFertser> lindi-: not now, i've got windows driver source. And there's a decent register-level reference, it only lacks dma info.
Dec 29 18:31:19 <lindi-> PaulFertser: is the windows driver free? :/
Dec 29 18:31:39 <PaulFertser> lindi-: nope, i got the source as a courtesy.
Dec 29 18:34:45 <PaulFertser> lindi-: there's a usb board from the same manufacturer with a free linux driver, though it's of relatively low quality.
Dec 29 18:35:48 <PaulFertser> lindi-: what frequency do you need?
Dec 29 18:36:02 <lindi-> PaulFertser: just 10 kHz
Dec 29 18:36:52 <lindi-> PaulFertser: and 16-bit samples if possible
Dec 29 18:37:09 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i think that's easy even without DMA. There's a fifo on board, you can get IRQ when it's half filled, then you just readout the whole fifo, pushing it to the consumer through a character device.
Dec 29 18:41:27 <PaulFertser> lindi-: you can get 14-bit board for $550.
Dec 29 18:43:32 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i can look through their usb daq boards
Dec 29 18:46:01 <PaulFertser> lindi-: nope, they lack them, 16bit are too much. 24bit delta-sigma but only 800Hz max.
Dec 29 20:30:42 <PaulFertser> andi: OT: do you by any chance want to discuss kernel<->userspace API for an ADC board?
Dec 29 20:56:32 <andi> hi PaulFertser
Dec 29 20:56:40 <andi> ADC board via USB?
Dec 29 20:56:54 <PaulFertser> andi: Hi :) no, it's a PCI DAQ board that i have in mind.
Dec 29 20:57:05 <PaulFertser> andi: but it doesn't matter much. 
Dec 29 20:58:25 <andi> perhaps it can be handled as a multi-channel soundcard?
Dec 29 20:59:41 <andi> I have never done anything with such board
Dec 29 21:00:53 <PaulFertser> i'd like to have two modes: low-freq stuff through input subsystem and high-perf mode where userspace mmaps the kernel memory where the data is DMA'd by the card. The second is a lot more involving both for the driver and userspace.
Dec 29 21:00:54 <andi> the last time I wanted to make measurements with a computer, I put ADC measurements from one pic µC over one usb endpoint
Dec 29 21:01:27 <andi> so I had a low-freq digital scope not ignoring dc
Dec 29 21:02:35 <andi> hmm, sound drivers often have the possibility to mmap the dma buffer
Dec 29 21:02:51 <andi> so maybe use the alsa subsystem for that
Dec 29 21:04:52 <PaulFertser> andi: i thought about it for a bit but was afraid to follow the route due to the complexity of alsa, both kernel and userland-wise. 
Dec 29 21:07:25 <andi> oss was simpler, but since oss drivers are depreciated, that might also not be a good idea
Dec 29 21:08:31 <andi> maybe just giving the oss api to userspace but not using any oss framework stuff from the kernel
Dec 29 21:08:43 <PaulFertser> andi: ('scope) btw, somebody might be interested "The analog input offers 360 kHz usable BW at 8 effective bits or 100kHz usable BW at 12 effective bits." http://www.domenech.org/bt878a-adc/index-e.htm
Dec 29 21:09:21 <PaulFertser> If only those bt878-boards were as easy to source as they were several years ago...
Dec 29 21:12:53 <andi> yes, looks interesting
Dec 29 23:01:30 <tim_abell> i'm trying to follow the instructions for creating a bitbake, and i have to say they aren't making a whole load of sense to me yet
Dec 29 23:01:59 <tim_abell> http://github.com/timabell/mokopod  + http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Howto%20get%20my%20application%20in%20the%20SHR%20feed   =  confusion
Dec 30 00:11:47 <tim_abell> . ./setup-env 
Dec 30 00:11:47 <tim_abell> environment: TOPDIR not defined
Dec 30 00:11:49 <tim_abell> meh
Dec 30 00:13:56 <tim_abell> instructions failure
Dec 30 00:14:12 <tim_abell> i keep telling myself i like being on the cutting edge
Dec 30 00:14:40 <tim_abell> still beats eradicating viruses from windows vista
Dec 30 00:14:47 <tim_abell> which was today's other irritation
Dec 30 00:15:00 <tim_abell> not mine i hasten to add
Dec 30 00:17:06 <tim_abell> argh
Dec 30 00:17:23 <tim_abell> export TOPDIR=.
Dec 30 00:17:23 <tim_abell> . ./setup-env 
Dec 30 00:17:23 <tim_abell> environment: TOPDIR not defined
Dec 30 00:17:28 <tim_abell> ffs
Dec 30 00:17:39 * tim_abell was not in a good mood anyway
Dec 30 00:18:27 <tim_abell> cat conf/topdir.conf 
Dec 30 00:18:27 <tim_abell> TOPDIR='/home/tim/projects/openmoko/bitbake/shr-unstable'
Dec 30 00:18:31 <tim_abell> wtf?
Dec 30 00:18:34 <tim_abell> why doesn't that work
Dec 30 00:19:16 <tim_abell> oh i moved the folder and it's hard coded it
Dec 30 00:19:17 <tim_abell> sheesh
Dec 30 00:19:33 <max_posedon_> tim_abell, are you sure that you using bash?
Dec 30 00:19:48 <max_posedon_> not smth other strange shell?
Dec 30 00:19:50 <tim_abell> don't worry, presumption failure
Dec 30 00:20:05 <tim_abell> i assumed wrongly that i could move the folder after i'd created it
Dec 30 00:20:46 <tim_abell> that's better
Dec 30 00:21:14 <tim_abell> "environment: TOPDIR not defined" is misleading in the extreme
Dec 30 00:21:20 <tim_abell> test -n "$TOPDIR" -a -d "$TOPDIR" || {
Dec 30 00:21:20 <tim_abell> 	echo "environment: TOPDIR not defined" >&2
Dec 30 00:21:20 <tim_abell> 	return
Dec 30 00:21:20 <tim_abell> }
Dec 30 00:21:39 <tim_abell> guess what, you get that output for the folder not existing
Dec 30 00:21:41 <tim_abell> bad programmer
Dec 30 00:21:46 * tim_abell slaps programmer
Dec 30 00:22:49 <tim_abell> does anyone here want to fix that? i don't have the mental energy required to do that as well
Dec 30 00:23:25 <tim_abell> difficult contribution process = contributions--
Dec 30 00:23:45 <tim_abell> i'm just trying to get my hackery into the feeds
Dec 30 00:23:54 <tim_abell> it's a bit of a slog
Dec 30 00:24:00 <max_posedon_> just remove all, and start from beginning
Dec 30 00:24:13 <max_posedon_> openembedded doesn't support "moving" folders
Dec 30 00:24:15 <tim_abell> it's ok, i corrected the contents of conf/topdir.conf
Dec 30 00:24:18 <tim_abell> evidently
Dec 30 00:24:35 <tim_abell> i don't fancy waiting for it all to download againn
Dec 30 00:25:59 <tim_abell> what the hell does that mean?
Dec 30 00:27:36 <tim_abell> oh that line went missing. i said /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr is not 0
Dec 30 00:27:46 <tim_abell> but / got interpreted by irc
Dec 30 00:29:25 <tim_abell> i'm not sure i want to go fiddling with those kind of things that i don't understand just to get my app in the feed
Dec 30 00:29:28 <tim_abell> barrier++
Dec 30 00:33:18 <tim_abell> ok, changed that. next error
Dec 30 00:33:27 <tim_abell> Using dash as /bin/sh causes various subtle build problems, please use bash instead.
Dec 30 00:33:35 <tim_abell> $ help
Dec 30 00:33:35 <tim_abell> GNU bash, version 3.2.39(1)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu)
Dec 30 00:33:37 <tim_abell> m
Dec 30 00:33:39 <tim_abell> um
Dec 30 00:33:41 <tim_abell> wtf?
Dec 30 00:34:29 * tim_abell is only enjoying this in a masochistic sense
Dec 30 00:35:05 <max_posedon_> tim_abell, ls -la /bin/sh
Dec 30 00:35:19 <tim_abell>  ls -al /bin/bash
Dec 30 00:35:19 <tim_abell> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 725136 May 12  2008 /bin/bash
Dec 30 00:35:21 <tim_abell> oops
Dec 30 00:35:30 <tim_abell> ls -al /bin/sh  
Dec 30 00:35:30 <tim_abell> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Dec 28  2008 /bin/sh -> dash
Dec 30 00:35:33 <tim_abell> oh i see
Dec 30 00:35:38 <tim_abell> my console is bash
Dec 30 00:35:41 <tim_abell> but sh is dash
Dec 30 00:35:49 <tim_abell> bloody hell
Dec 30 00:35:53 <tim_abell> no what?
Dec 30 00:35:56 <tim_abell> now what
Dec 30 00:38:31 <tim_abell> Ubuntu 8.10 fwiw
Dec 30 00:39:17 <tim_abell> if this script wants bash so much, why can't it just use /bin/bash ?
Dec 30 00:40:29 <tim_abell> http://lwn.net/Articles/343924/
Dec 30 00:40:35 <max_posedon_> because there is many scripts
Dec 30 00:40:47 <max_posedon_> and not all of them are fixed
Dec 30 00:40:50 <tim_abell> ugh
Dec 30 00:43:37 <tim_abell> progress
Dec 30 00:44:08 <tim_abell> not for the feint hearted this build process
Dec 30 00:44:23 <tim_abell> removing /bin/sh for example 
Dec 30 00:51:18 <tim_abell> well that was a long time to wait for a failure
Dec 30 00:51:26 <tim_abell> apparently my first attempt at a bb was no good
Dec 30 00:54:30 <tim_abell> oh wrong openembedded folder. nuts.
Dec 30 00:58:06 <tim_abell> NOTE: Running task 31 of 561 (ID: 134, /home/tim/projects/openmoko/shr/shr-unstable/openembedded/recipes/coreutils/coreutils-native_7.2.bb, do_configure)
Dec 30 00:58:06 <tim_abell> *** %n in writable segment detected ***
Dec 30 00:58:09 <tim_abell> is that bad?
Dec 30 00:58:16 <tim_abell> cpu still at 100%
Dec 30 00:58:20 <tim_abell> no prompt yet
Dec 30 00:58:30 <tim_abell> still going
Dec 30 00:59:03 <tim_abell> crikey this is going to take all night on my ageing laptop
Dec 30 01:00:02 <max_posedon_> in this case, time to sleep
Dec 30 01:00:24 <tim_abell> good plan
Dec 30 01:00:38 <tim_abell> hope i don't have to wait a whole night every time i get my bitbake wrong
Dec 30 01:03:58 <tim_abell> what is it doing? i thought it would just package up my app
Dec 30 01:04:07 <tim_abell> which is just a few python files
Dec 30 01:08:49 <tim_abell> maybe one day http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/PodPooch will have a bit bake
Dec 30 01:08:56 <tim_abell> but i think it won't be today
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 30 02:59:57 2009