**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 06 02:59:57 2010 Jan 06 03:00:03 im modifying xorg.conf Jan 06 03:00:06 three Jan 06 03:00:13 AUX/PWR and Touchscreen Jan 06 03:00:48 slaxxer: add mine Jan 06 03:00:56 ok Jan 06 03:00:58 slaxxer: remove yours Jan 06 03:01:14 slaxxer: and calibrate device Jan 06 03:01:29 stop Jan 06 03:01:41 slaxxer: keep yours Jan 06 03:01:52 slaxxer: it is for power button Jan 06 03:02:20 slaxxer: touchscreen seem event1 Jan 06 03:02:38 slaxxer: so check that you have 1 section for event1 device Jan 06 03:02:55 ection "InputDevice" Jan 06 03:02:55 Identifier "Touchscreen" Jan 06 03:02:55 Driver "evdev" Jan 06 03:02:55 Option "Device" "/dev/input/event1" Jan 06 03:03:04 slaxxer: and add mine (tslib) sersion. Jan 06 03:03:08 thats what i have Jan 06 03:03:13 ok Jan 06 03:03:26 slaxxer: and remove your Jan 06 03:03:57 then restart X and do ts calibrate Jan 06 03:04:39 i can just modify my current touchscreen section? Jan 06 03:04:52 or add a new section? Jan 06 03:04:53 slaxxer: sure :) this is just text file Jan 06 03:05:13 slaxxer: modify Jan 06 03:06:33 rhaeder: mb something wrong with your fr if you have show, md5errors and so. Jan 06 03:06:51 rhaeder: but it's hard to tell. Jan 06 03:06:56 it is a fresh SHR installation Jan 06 03:07:21 why are so many people suddenly excited about google's nexus one? nexus one is just a big joke compared to nokia's n900, are people so stupid or what? Jan 06 03:08:07 rhaeder: I mean wrong with hardware Jan 06 03:08:42 nothing was wrong with hardware when I use om2009.9 :( Jan 06 03:09:38 rhaeder: snow, md5sum errors and suddenly borked uboot env looks strange. Jan 06 03:09:39 u talking about paroli? Jan 06 03:09:45 japp Jan 06 03:10:24 found some settings: Settings->Power Jan 06 03:10:25 rhaeder: and look like hardware problems, but you should consult with someone else. Jan 06 03:11:11 what do you mean? Jan 06 03:11:21 with blanking? that is software Jan 06 03:11:56 still cant select next on the language selection screen Jan 06 03:15:02 rhaeder: I mean that from my pov you might have problems with hw, but i am not competent enough to tell for sure. Jan 06 03:15:36 slaxxer: language selection??? Jan 06 03:15:56 slaxxer: done ts_calibrate? Jan 06 03:23:09 no Jan 06 03:23:18 slaxxer: proceed Jan 06 03:23:37 stuck at openssh login Jan 06 03:23:42 :( Jan 06 03:23:59 passwd not changeme? Jan 06 03:24:53 "The default root password is blank. " Jan 06 03:24:57 from wiki Jan 06 03:25:11 denied Jan 06 03:25:24 oh :) mb root login disabled :) Jan 06 03:26:19 openssh installed last boot Jan 06 03:27:18 modified xorg via shr Jan 06 03:27:32 hmmm :) Jan 06 03:27:58 so remember what your did. or remove sd mount to host and investigate :) Jan 06 03:28:12 :) Jan 06 03:28:40 can i kill the passwd/ Jan 06 03:30:05 you may remove 'x' sign in second field Jan 06 03:43:20 yay phone still works after 1024 fix Jan 06 03:54:40 isn't that why they call it a "fix" instead of a "break"? :) Jan 06 03:55:28 :) Jan 06 03:59:10 how can I add this as feed? http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/ipk/ Jan 06 03:59:26 that repos has at least a hcidump package Jan 06 04:01:37 anyone know what ARM instruction set extensions the FR CPU supports? Jan 06 04:06:27 still trouble with Freedom BT keyboard: http://www.pastebin.org/71584 Jan 06 04:06:45 pabs3: sorry, no dev here :) Jan 06 04:07:46 is that "Paring not allowed" some DRM? (Digital Restrictions Mismanagement) Jan 06 04:11:27 how do i tell syslog to start logging? Jan 06 04:11:51 in shr Jan 06 04:14:47 nevermind Jan 06 05:13:14 Psi: where'd you get that fix? Jan 06 05:29:34 from my desk Jan 06 05:29:47 well, and from digikey Jan 06 05:31:03 added the extra 10uf cap to the existing one as was done here http://neofundas.blogspot.com/2009/09/1024-hardware-fixdeep-sleep.html Jan 06 05:32:22 Psi: notice a diff yet? Jan 06 05:32:41 i set deep sleep to adaptive Jan 06 05:32:49 and enabled syslog Jan 06 05:32:52 y not always? Jan 06 05:33:13 we will see if i get any recamping Jan 06 05:33:28 i want it to do the test, so i can see if the fix worked Jan 06 05:33:50 if it doesnt create any warnings ill know it worked and ill set it to always :) Jan 06 05:46:07 Psi: makes sense Jan 06 05:47:24 i've been getting problems with ringing and vibrating on my phone...profile settings says "can't connect to fso" Jan 06 05:47:46 phoneuid.log says: http://pastebin.com/d7f408a67 Jan 06 05:55:11 hi. I need 'as' which package do I need to install? Jan 06 05:55:23 I think that's the assembler :) Jan 06 06:42:31 rhaeder: On Sidux it's in binutils package. Jan 06 06:43:39 (Debian-based distro) Jan 06 06:55:00 ok, will checkout later, maybe. :) Jan 06 07:13:48 ? Jan 06 09:55:47 Hello , while battery is full and fr is connected via usb will fr use battery or usb voltage ? Jan 06 09:56:11 both Jan 06 09:56:31 even more correct, gsm will use only battery Jan 06 09:57:04 but phone will not charge until level > 75%, and will slowly discharge Jan 06 09:57:25 when level will be = 75%, it will start charge to 100% Jan 06 09:59:59 max_posedon: thanks you mean while usb is connected and bettery is full if phone GSM is on battery will be discharged until 75% ? Jan 06 10:00:20 alabd, yes Jan 06 10:00:46 gsm connected to battery, phone itself to usb(powered on) Jan 06 10:01:06 so, discharge speed exactly how much gsm use it Jan 06 10:01:43 max_posedon: does not this issue cause fr battery harm? Jan 06 10:02:53 yes and no Jan 06 10:03:08 if you ran calculator you will see how slow discharge is Jan 06 10:03:52 and are sure until 75% it wont be charged ? Jan 06 10:04:06 related question, if a FR is powered via USB and the battery is full, is it better to remove the battery than leave it in? (I don't care about GSM not being powered) Jan 06 10:04:38 pabs3, you can just disable gsm chip (or it already powered off) Jan 06 10:04:47 so, it useless Jan 06 10:05:13 only gsm chip discharge battery, if it off, no one Jan 06 10:05:19 pabs3: youcan disable charging with "om usb charger-limit 0" Jan 06 10:05:22 (at least this is how I understand it) Jan 06 10:05:42 pabs3: but GSM will only work with battery Jan 06 10:06:27 pabs3: also batteries are best stored at 40% charge Jan 06 10:06:41 you mean if battery is 80% and GSM off and fr is connected with usb it wont be charged ? Jan 06 10:07:21 alabd, depend on what was before it Jan 06 10:07:24 alabd: yes. however actually no power is taken from USB in that case Jan 06 10:07:43 alabd: (if you "om usb charger-limit 0") Jan 06 10:08:38 max_posedon: before that ? Jan 06 10:09:30 lindi-: you mena without "om usb charger-limit 0" battery will not be charged until is connected to usb and GSM is off ? Jan 06 10:10:10 alabd: parse error :) Jan 06 10:11:04 max_posedon: is there some way to power the system from USB, keep battery connected but not actually charge or drain the battery? Jan 06 10:11:08 anyone here going to LCA2010? Jan 06 10:12:02 lindi-, I don't know Jan 06 10:12:45 lindi-: set charging limit to 0 and turn off GSM? Jan 06 10:13:24 PaulFertser: then cpu will be pwoered by pattery? Jan 06 10:13:27 s/p/b/ Jan 06 10:14:00 lindi-: no, the cpu will be powered by USB Jan 06 10:14:12 PaulFertser: that's not what happens here Jan 06 10:14:26 PaulFertser: if I set charger-limit to zero then freerunner will not draw anything from USB bus Jan 06 10:14:33 lindi-: hm, probably i'm wrong in some detail again, at least i hoped it would work like that ... Jan 06 10:14:37 PaulFertser: and all energy wil be taken from battery Jan 06 10:14:53 PaulFertser: if I set charger-limit to 100 mA then freerunner will draw 100 mA from USB bus and take rest from battery Jan 06 10:15:14 and same for 500 mA and 1000 mA Jan 06 10:15:15 lindi-: are you sure you're not touching usb limit? Jan 06 10:15:23 PaulFertser: this is usb limit :) Jan 06 10:15:33 lindi-: and i'm talking about charging limit. Jan 06 10:15:58 PaulFertser: "om usb charger-limit" modifies /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/pcf50633-mbc/usb_curlim Jan 06 10:16:31 lindi-: well, that's not charger-limit obviously. Though setting usb_curlim sets charging limit automatically to the same value. Jan 06 10:17:27 PaulFertser: then there is "om usb charger-mode [charge-battery|power-usb]" that modifies /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode Jan 06 10:17:50 lindi-: also not the node i'm talking about Jan 06 10:18:17 PaulFertser: i did not find a specific node for charger limit Jan 06 10:20:06 lindi-: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/pcf50633-mbc/chg_curlim Jan 06 10:20:25 PaulFertser: interesting Jan 06 10:20:33 PaulFertser: so setting that will make it not charge the battery? Jan 06 10:20:56 will test Jan 06 10:21:28 lindi-: i hope Jan 06 10:22:11 PaulFertser: looks promising :) Jan 06 10:22:22 PaulFertser: any ideas on how this should be called in omhacks? Jan 06 10:23:44 PaulFertser: what we have now is http://paste.debian.net/55752/ but we are ready to change things Jan 06 10:25:39 lindi-: http://paste.debian.net/55752/ wow Jan 06 10:26:40 lindi-: looks better than dbus calls Jan 06 10:27:35 gena2x: faster, written in C :) Jan 06 10:27:52 this is faster dbus calls, or magic echoes to sys? Jan 06 10:28:27 max_posedon: it uses no dbus Jan 06 10:29:05 so its possible to have conflicts with framework? Jan 06 10:29:11 but nice, anyway) Jan 06 10:29:16 max_posedon: sure Jan 06 10:29:32 max_posedon: but it uses the libomhacks0 library which framework could use too :) Jan 06 10:30:18 max_posedon: hiding these tricks to a daemon only accessible by dbus is not nice Jan 06 10:30:33 I don't think thats is good for generic framework) Jan 06 10:30:41 (about libomhacks0) Jan 06 10:30:47 max_posedon: for example I want to make backlight very dim early in the bootup to save energy Jan 06 10:31:01 max_posedon: so early that no dbus is running and fs is read-only Jan 06 10:31:22 nice idear, yes Jan 06 10:31:45 max_posedon: PaulFertser lindi- ::: with GSM off , usb will not charge battery until it comes to 80% , max_posedon said . agree ? Jan 06 10:32:58 alabd, it will be another way Jan 06 10:33:15 if gsm off, you attach neo it will be fully sharged Jan 06 10:33:35 alabd: not exactly Jan 06 10:33:37 nobody will consume battery power Jan 06 10:33:46 alabd: please read Battery_Questions_and_Answers page on the wiki. Jan 06 10:35:26 PaulFertser: sure ok Jan 06 10:36:09 thank you Jan 06 10:41:33 Is there anyway to turn off fr inner mic and speaker while headset is connected to it ? Jan 06 10:43:59 lindi-: I this libomhacks written in C without dbus and context switches is very nice idea Jan 06 10:44:28 lindi-: s/this/think/ Jan 06 10:45:00 lindi-: But how to make it compatible with that framework... Jan 06 10:55:24 PaulFertser: as last night we talked GPS issue has been posted on ml , but how to be sure GPS hardware is ok at all ? Jan 06 10:56:53 alabd: just wait a bit for the issue to be solved. Jan 06 10:57:20 PaulFertser: maybe gps hardware is not health how to be sure ? Jan 06 10:58:51 alabd: echo 1 > power_on and do cat /dev/ttySAC1, place the device somewhere you expect good reception and wait for meaningful NMEA messages to appear on console. Jan 06 10:59:03 alabd: you're a bit paranoid, aren't you? ;) Jan 06 11:00:39 PaulFertser: humble dont trust anyone anytime just one person the lastest emam of shiea Jan 06 11:02:03 shiite* Jan 06 11:02:13 emam mahdi Jan 06 11:11:00 gena2x: i don't know, i am not using frameworkd really Jan 06 11:11:19 PaulFertser: perhaps "om battery charger-limit [0-500]"? Jan 06 11:11:51 PaulFertser: there are some lines that contain unknown ...how result will be meaningful ? Jan 06 11:19:01 lindi-: probably Jan 06 11:19:13 lindi-: sounds ok Jan 06 11:19:22 alabd: well, you need to wait for some time Jan 06 11:19:27 alabd: in a decent place Jan 06 11:19:33 alabd: then you should see nice NMEA data Jan 06 11:20:56 $GPGGA,numbers,numbers, ... Jan 06 11:21:00 it should look like Jan 06 11:23:01 PaulFertser: thanks for this tip. i did not know it was even possible! Jan 06 11:23:50 lindi-: :D Jan 06 11:32:59 brr. I have static IP on usb0 on debian (192.168.1.1). then I plug FR i see in ifconfig IP 1.1, then few packets are transferred, and after 2 seconds it is magically changed in ifconfig to address of my main interface, kill default route... how it is possible? Jan 06 11:33:03 all this on host %) Jan 06 11:33:09 sometimes it is changes, sometimes it is not. kind of magic. Jan 06 11:33:15 need to replug fr until all ok %) Jan 06 11:33:23 something is always wrong with that usb... Jan 06 11:34:18 gena2x: are you running NM on host? ;) Jan 06 11:35:05 PaulFertser: /usr/sbin/NetworkManager <- this on? Jan 06 11:35:08 gena2x: strange you have usb0 on host at all, it should be ethX when FR uses a persistent MAC Jan 06 11:35:17 gena2x: yes, stupid messing networkmanager Jan 06 11:35:51 no no it should be "neo" :) Jan 06 11:35:55 PaulFertser: thanks, i know that to kill Jan 06 11:38:19 PaulFertser: may be I added some rules to rename it. but why sometimes ok sometimes not? damn manager. Jan 06 11:39:31 gena2x: damn manager, indeed. There was an interesting wiki page by khiraly who understood who to "properly" use that NM to configure the interface automatically. Jan 06 11:39:55 PaulFertser: it's not implemented in libomhacks -- will take some time to review it. it'll be in debian unstable maybe next month :) Jan 06 11:40:03 s/not/now/ Jan 06 11:41:02 lindi-: :) does it work as you want it (i.e. provide near-optimal battery storage conditions)? Jan 06 11:41:12 PaulFertser: yes Jan 06 11:41:16 PaulFertser: at least it seems so Jan 06 11:41:22 PaulFertser: damn world, need to roam :) Jan 06 11:41:38 My wish too Jan 06 11:43:09 * PaulFertser sometimes wishes not all of his friends were insane Jan 06 11:45:22 Hi everybody. I newly got an FR and did the USB networking setup with an ubuntu host. I have a few suggestions for the wiki page. Is anyone interested to discuss that? Jan 06 11:47:35 congratulations. wish you much fun with new device ;) Jan 06 11:48:16 if something wrong with wiki, why just not to fix it? Jan 06 11:49:19 Hi gena2x. It's a used v5 model and has no buzz fixing ;(, but I'll try to manage.. Jan 06 11:50:39 Factor4: are you sure you want to do that? Jan 06 11:50:53 Factor4: i'm a bit afraid of ubuntu users tbh Jan 06 11:51:15 It's a question about what to suggest on the page and what not and some ordering. E.g. NM is working fine for me, but it seems not everyone .. Jan 06 11:51:46 Factor4: there's a cool page by khiraly that explains "proper" NM setup. But NM sucks anyway, so clumsy, so hard to understand and use... Jan 06 11:52:02 Factor4: end-users never get networking anyway... why bother... Jan 06 11:52:49 PaulFertser: can you just drop a link to that famous article. Jan 06 11:53:36 PaulFertser: Until this moment I thought that Nm is essestional in world of people roaming between varous kind of networks Jan 06 11:54:05 I do not want to fix the buzz bug, I'll just try to live with it is what I meant. Jan 06 11:55:49 gena2x: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Klaszlo#True_plug-and-play_experience_using_usb_networking Jan 06 11:55:53 Factor4: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Klaszlo#True_plug-and-play_experience_using_usb_networking Jan 06 11:55:55 gena2x: hah :) Jan 06 11:56:00 Factor4: fixing buzz is ~easy Jan 06 11:56:30 no it is not :) Jan 06 11:58:10 lindi-: well, i fixed 2 phones myself already. Without any special skills or equipment. Jan 06 12:00:59 PaulFertser: Thanks for the links. I boldly top-posted a section to the talk page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:USB_Networking . This is a working plug-and-play setup for me as well. Jan 06 12:01:41 Factor4: ok. Sorry, i won't look at it, i'm afraid to be depressed. ;) Jan 06 12:03:11 Hey all Jan 06 12:04:40 Ok. Here a simple question: Wouldn't it be easier to suggest to everyone to rename their interface to e.g. "usb0" or "neo0" using udev (if they have udev)? Jan 06 12:07:27 Factor4: usb0 is for cdc_ether with random MAC. Jan 06 12:08:04 Factor4: and imho it would be simpler to remove _all_ iptables commands from the wiki and let users read the official manuals at http://netfilter.org or something. Jan 06 12:08:11 PaulFertser: hm... it's possible to name it 'usbfixedmac0' Jan 06 12:08:41 gena2x: sure, well, that's for those who likes udev tricks. They now it all themselves. Jan 06 12:10:16 PaulFertser: from my pov udev and iptables have equal compilcation. but all this don't matter... Jan 06 12:10:28 I have read that battery charging discussion some several lines up, interesting what you are dealing with. :) Jan 06 12:11:07 PaulFertser: Or one could reorder the wiki page to 1. connection to the Neo and 2. connection from Neo to the world and give examples of working example scripts Jan 06 12:11:31 Factor4: that's exactly what i dislike with passion: examples of working scripts, thank you :D Jan 06 12:13:14 I have learned that once a battery is charging, you should...: a) make sure it wont be interrupted while charging, b) once it is fully charged, stop charging it and c) you should discharge a battery completely (not exactly completely, but leave ~0.01% in) and then start charging it. Jan 06 12:13:41 else a battery will take serious damage and lifetime shortens Jan 06 12:13:58 rhaeder: is that really true for li-ion? Jan 06 12:13:58 PaulFertser: I see your point, but stating the OS + FR-OS for each example is easier than finding out what's the best way for each host-OS (revision), isn't it? Jan 06 12:14:22 lindi-: not sure for li-ion. I said it in general :) Jan 06 12:14:33 rhaeder: i think li-ion does not like deep discharge at all Jan 06 12:14:35 rhaeder: it's liion battery - all this tricks with full charge or discharge are for other types of battery. Jan 06 12:14:52 Factor4: nope, you do not understand me. I prefer to boycott all the questions about networking and to remove all networking pages. Users should be able to set up networking themselves. If they can't, well, they should read the manual. ;) Jan 06 12:15:25 gena2x: not quite. If you charge up to 90% only - you get considerable life beenfits. As in the battery lasting three years, not one in laptops. Jan 06 12:16:43 liio/lipo type cells to not like to be overdischarged Jan 06 12:16:51 3V per cell is a safe minimum Jan 06 12:17:33 SpeedEvil: hm. interesting. but i didn't understand 'lasting free years' part. Is this trick applicable to any liion battery? Jan 06 12:18:32 PaulFertser: The manual? Which one do you mean? Manuals/SHR? Jan 06 12:18:43 PaulFertser: why not to have working samples for users who want to learn? Jan 06 12:19:07 hi Jan 06 12:20:57 Li-ion cells aging is increased by high temperature, and high charge state - as well as cycle count. Jan 06 12:21:35 SpeedEvil: so a) is correct? don't interrupt it? Jan 06 12:21:47 interrupting charge is irrelevant. Jan 06 12:21:53 Factor4: the page look quite helpful, seems no reason to change it. Jan 06 12:22:10 there is useful stuff at batteryuniversity.com Jan 06 12:22:46 gena2x: because users do not learn by copy-pasting Jan 06 12:22:56 Factor4: netfilter.org manuals i meant. And man iptables. Jan 06 12:23:37 PaulFertser: E.g. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_the_Neo_as_an_USB_Mass_storage_device is a nice page. Albeit I would rather set up networking and use "sshfs" I think the page is worth having.. Jan 06 12:24:29 PaulFertser: man iptables is for geeks, not for regular users, which I am. :) Jan 06 12:24:32 PaulFertser: all depends on person Jan 06 12:25:08 PaulFertser: you have some educational-system pov Jan 06 12:25:18 setting up iptables "rawly" or with nothing but iptables tool can be really hard Jan 06 12:25:39 gena2x: I got confused by: 2.1 The shortest way and 2.3. The advanced way suggesting the same, but 2.1. does not include the nat'ing. I also think this is not educational. Jan 06 12:26:50 gena2x: of the USB_Networking page Jan 06 12:26:53 it is the best way to learn it but frustration rate is really high. better give them a working script/program with an easy interface. I know, the Microsh*t Windozer is this and many people suffer from using it (they even don't know if they have an NVIDIA or ATI card in [sic!]) Jan 06 12:27:50 but they want it the easy and not the advanced way :) Jan 06 12:27:53 gena2x: i even work as a teacher part-time ;) Jan 06 12:28:27 from your pov, it's better to sell fr in components, without instruction how to assemble - for people to learn in true way Jan 06 12:28:31 ;) Jan 06 12:28:37 Factor4: usb mass storage emulation allows you to boot from FR. Or to give stupid windows the inf file to enable usb networking. Jan 06 12:28:40 whats why we geeks/freaks/hackers must come in place to give them easy-to-use-but-advanced-in-functionality scripts ;) Jan 06 12:31:46 you people will cry when you hear what my parents did when only "a Linux update did not work". they removed it entirely from all two systems, a Laptop and a station, and replaced it with Microsuck Windozer Vista/XP :( Jan 06 12:31:52 PaulFertser: Sure, but the page in question rather tells you how to access the mass storage, when it is conn. and ifup'ed to your host already. So I would'nt use that way to access the SD card. Jan 06 12:32:16 but then I said: "Your choice, no longer my problem." Jan 06 12:33:32 now guess what: some days later they got first trojan on their computers... LOL ... but I didn't care. I said: "Go to that hyper-dupa-Windozer people and get it fixed by them." Jan 06 12:34:03 I don't fix Windozer machines for friends/neighbors/family mates anymore :) Jan 06 12:35:14 Anyway: Do you know how big the docu-crowd is? Are there people assigned for working on certain wiki-pages. Otherwise, I'll just go and edit to make it as educational as I can. Jan 06 12:35:17 in in truth I thought: "How could they? How could they to be so f***ing stupid, formating disks only because of a non-working update? just let it run" Jan 06 12:35:18 ;) Jan 06 12:36:29 rhaeder: nice story, linux if nice because it has few people who don't care, so many thing are made for people who care. being free, it have no need in users who will not fix problems. Jan 06 12:36:34 PaulFertser: and least, if you keep that wiki pages up you don't hurt the Internet by removing content from it. at least those pages are good for SEO... :) Jan 06 12:36:57 rhaeder: I parented my parents well. They wait for me fixing it ;~ Jan 06 12:37:26 gena2x: yeah, I made a mistake and gave them "Debian Unstable" :( Jan 06 12:37:42 rhaeder: funny Jan 06 12:38:30 Factor4: wow, really impressive how you could be able to do that. :) I tried it but my parents couldn't wait. the problem is, we now life ~470 kilo meters in distance from each other. So I cannot come around and fix it. :( Jan 06 12:38:39 ... on a weekly basis Jan 06 12:40:31 BTW: all INF files didn't work either with Vista nor XP (I tried to connect my FR to both boxes, no luck :( Jan 06 12:41:33 rheader: I use: ssh + vnc to show them what I do. Or use nxserver/client software sometimes. I gave them (k)ubuntu LTS with a virtualbox with Win$ for tax programs etc.. Jan 06 12:41:42 I just told my experiences with "simple people" and not with "geeky" people like us, how can even control a computer with simple command prompts :) Jan 06 12:42:48 Factor4: I asked, if I can try some Ubuntu but they refuse it now. so its their choice and no longer my problem :) Jan 06 12:43:28 replace "how" with "who" to lines above Jan 06 12:43:33 rhaeder: True, I wouldn't worry now. They will come back one day ;) Jan 06 12:44:20 In Linux, I told them very often, they can use it without a virus scanner, try that with Windozer... :) Jan 06 12:45:46 rhaeder: i do not touch the networking pages because i know i'm in minority here. Jan 06 12:46:03 PaulFertser: :) Jan 06 12:46:33 PaulFertser: they helped me, e.g. setting up bridging FR->Host->Internet ;) Jan 06 12:46:56 rhaeder: lucky you Jan 06 12:47:26 rhaeder: btw, i tried connecting my FR to some windows boxes and it worked. Jan 06 12:47:49 PaulFertser: now I use that automatic post-modprobe (or so?) commands Jan 06 12:48:24 I had no luck getting my FR connected to Windoze boxes :( Jan 06 12:48:53 it said st. like "Cannot activate device. Error XX" or so Jan 06 12:50:06 rhaeder: activate??? nice. Jan 06 12:50:20 ok, need to be away for an hour, my refrigerator is empty :/ Jan 06 12:50:38 gena2x: yes, Windoze told me that. no debug output :( Jan 06 12:51:01 rhaeder: heh, hate going msdn for find XX Jan 06 12:52:18 rhaeder: what kernel are you using on FR Jan 06 12:52:32 that's why I like Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD and other "OpenSource OSes": they give you all detailed debug messages. and not only a one-line message with a cryptic error code :( Jan 06 12:52:33 gena2x: sorry, I forgot that code :/ maybe 10? Jan 06 12:53:41 rhaeder: go to msdn, hungry geek. Jan 06 12:54:04 on that time, "recent" kernel from OM2009.9 Jan 06 12:54:04 now, with SHR I can give it a 2nd try once I'm at my parent's house :) Jan 06 12:54:04 not really recent kernels in OM distris :/ even 2.6.29 is a bit outdated Jan 06 12:54:10 and in case of EXT4 stability, 2.6.32 feels more stable :) Jan 06 12:54:20 gena2x: :) Jan 06 12:55:12 ok, need to go. :) feeling really hungry here Jan 06 12:58:02 rhaeder: Ciao Jan 06 12:58:19 everyone: thanks for chatting ;) Jan 06 12:58:23 cu Jan 06 12:59:37 Factor4: my lmbench is finished, and I don't like results. Jan 06 13:03:41 gena2x: why? Jan 06 13:04:12 PaulFertser: i checked impact of Os/O2 optimization. Jan 06 13:05:54 gena2x: any significant difference? Jan 06 13:10:06 1 Jan 06 13:11:13 http://www.thefuckingweather.com/?zipcode=nuernberg&CELSIUS=yes :-(( and that's as good as it gets. More like another series of -20 nights til weekend Jan 06 13:13:09 DocScrutinizer51: hm, it's -15 here in the morning :p Jan 06 13:13:29 probably here as well Jan 06 13:13:38 we got high noon now Jan 06 13:15:35 thefuckingweather shows wrong weather for moscow. Jan 06 13:16:45 PaulFertser: found almost no impact, some differences exist, + or minus, few %. all near deviation. Jan 06 13:16:58 gena2x: i knew that ;) Jan 06 13:17:27 Well, suspected Jan 06 13:17:27 PaulFertser: whole method of lmnbenching is questinable. Jan 06 13:19:57 PaulFertser: I want to try preemption off now Jan 06 13:20:13 PaulFertser: Actually it's not *that* bad, according to http://wetterstationen.meteomedia.de/messnetz/forecast/107630.html Jan 06 13:21:10 PaulFertser: still I almost can't speak for shaking of cold. Must be the flu then :-S Jan 06 13:21:31 PaulFertser: DocScrutinizer51: we have so MUCH show, like in real north. Jan 06 13:22:08 PaulFertser: DocScrutinizer51: some cars are under snow piles. Jan 06 13:22:30 DocScrutinizer51: :((( Jan 06 13:22:51 aulFertser: DocScrutinizer51: very nice thing Jan 06 13:22:56 hehe. wellknown problem in whole europe these days. And getting worse on weekend Jan 06 13:24:41 gena2x: we tried driving over a pile of snow 70cm high on Niva today. Worked almost fine :) Jan 06 13:25:13 PaulFertser: I drived my sky yesterday. much more fun :) Jan 06 13:25:38 gena2x: sky? or ski? flat skiing? Jan 06 13:25:58 gena2x: i rode my bicycle today. Jan 06 13:26:09 PaulFertser: ski for sure :) Jan 06 13:26:30 sky diving. air skiing Jan 06 13:27:45 PaulFertser: Nope. I tried once, I have one with spiked tires, but give up - it's like going to exerciise... Jan 06 13:28:20 gena2x: it's when you try to ride on snow. But if you use some path or road, it's ok. Jan 06 13:29:39 PaulFertser: i hurts you health to drive road with high traffic. especially i can imagine Moscow Jan 06 13:29:40 yeah. the tires with the 50mm pinpoint spikes ;-P Jan 06 13:29:55 gena2x: i'm not so sure Jan 06 13:30:05 I hope that's neglegible Jan 06 13:31:01 PaulFertser: nope, nope, your heart and breath rate higher under load, and all gases hurt you much more. Jan 06 13:31:05 -spell neglectible Jan 06 13:31:23 ~spell neglectible Jan 06 13:31:34 gena2x: well, do you want to make me feel worried and unhappy? Come on Jan 06 13:31:55 DocScrutinizer51: negligible, yes Jan 06 13:32:37 I'm totally lost wrt to corrct spelling. Brain frozen ;-P Jan 06 13:33:12 ~dict neglectible Jan 06 13:33:15 gena2x: i can tell you some professional road racing cyclists and youth (with coach on car!) goes on roads near my home. Jan 06 13:33:22 DocScrutinizer51: seem it's too easy to make you feel bad :) Just use car/train to move you bycicle outside that crappy megapolices. Jan 06 13:33:41 ~ping Jan 06 13:34:26 PaulFertser: Some years ago i didn't notice difference too and moved along any road. Jan 06 13:35:11 gena2x: i lack XC bicycle and most importantly decent XC skills. And i do not want to race. And i do not want to go alone. Etc. So i do some utility cycling, e.g. to the university. Jan 06 13:35:15 * DocScrutinizer51 ponders if thinking about bikiing or featuring out easy ways to suicide would please him better atm Jan 06 13:36:26 DocScrutinizer51: there's a report of man biking (with a sidecar) in harsh winter to Norwegia to the north cup from Ukrain. Only in russian, unfortunately. Jan 06 13:36:28 DocScrutinizer51: a am cycling for ~8 years everywhere in our 5 million town and nearby places. still alive Jan 06 13:36:35 !seen apt Jan 06 13:36:38 I found 4 matches to your query (sorted): ibot infobot apt apt_. ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) was last seen rejoining #oe from a split 1 day, 12 hours, 19 minutes ago. ibot is still on #oe. Jan 06 13:38:13 PaulFertser: XC? most of our C if covered with roads good enogh to drive any bicycle. Jan 06 13:39:09 wtf happened to apt? Jan 06 13:39:12 gena2x: i do not have a suspension fork even on any of my bikes Jan 06 13:39:49 DocScrutinizer51: still celebrating the NY Jan 06 13:40:01 PaulFertser: heh, world outside the Moscow have many nice roads Jan 06 13:40:16 DocScrutinizer51: Y2k10 problem? Jan 06 13:40:30 yeah. together with tim R Jan 06 13:41:08 gena2x: seen those. It's actually amazing to find how much nicer roads in moscow are when you return home from "the outside". Jan 06 13:42:04 gena2x: also, have you ever tried riding a road racing bike? Jan 06 13:42:12 PaulFertser: just kick all that goverment near you to build proper roads :) Jan 06 13:43:29 gena2x: can't kick even myself to do something really cool :/ Also it's not the government, it's actually all the people, citizens of our "great" country, who choosed to live like that... Jan 06 13:43:32 PaulFertser: Real road racing, on tubes - nope. Mine is hybrid, with contact pedal and half slick but wide tires Jan 06 13:43:50 gena2x: step-in pedals are mad cool, indeed Jan 06 13:44:23 gena2x: btw, modern road racing bikes often use "clinchers". Jan 06 13:46:51 PaulFertser: I just want to have fun and will not to find some unexpected brick with my config :) Jan 06 13:49:46 I had a nightdream today that for some unknown reason i had two extra SCSI disks in my desktop with noisy coolers in front of both. O_o Jan 06 13:50:04 ~botsnack Jan 06 13:50:10 (and of course i actually have no scsi controller on desktop) Jan 06 13:50:12 DocScrutinizer51: thanks Jan 06 13:50:27 nasty dreams Jan 06 13:50:35 ~botsnack Jan 06 13:50:36 thanks, gena2x Jan 06 13:50:49 -logs Jan 06 13:50:57