**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 03 02:59:56 2010
Feb 03 03:10:35 <fredrin> n900 <3
Feb 03 07:09:01 <Psi> are there any working android images for gta01, or are they all gta02 images?
Feb 03 08:00:28 <PaulFertser> Psi: you gotta ask panicking to make those
Feb 03 08:46:03 <Psi> PaulFertser: its ok, i dont really need them, was just wondering if they existed
Feb 03 11:47:52 <djp_> outgoing calls aren't working with the latest release of shr-unstable (3.2.2010)
Feb 03 12:22:33 <djp_> reverting back to shr-unstable (1.2.2010) and outgoing calls are working again on my fr :)
Feb 03 14:02:48 <stongo> hello
Feb 03 14:05:15 <stongo> I was wondering if someone knew of any documentation about how shr fixed the earpiece and mic volume on calls
Feb 03 14:05:43 <DocScrutinizer> stongo: there's not much secret in this
Feb 03 14:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> ~fr-audio
Feb 03 14:05:52 <apt> extra, extra, read all about it, fr-audio is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_Freerunner_audio_subsystem and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem
Feb 03 14:06:25 <ChristW> I'd rather see the xinput_calibrator fixed... It seems that my screen calibration is _way_ off, and I can't fix it... anyone here who can help?
Feb 03 14:06:42 <DocScrutinizer> stongo: so probably the trick was to do it right finally ;-P
Feb 03 14:07:19 <ChristW> I have SSH access, and when I manually run xinput_calibrator, I can press the 4 crosshairs with a stylus. But the values that are reported don't seem to make any sense to the rest of the system.
Feb 03 14:07:39 <DocScrutinizer> ChristW: for shr-u issues you'll probably want to /join #openmoko-cdevel to pester the devels
Feb 03 14:07:39 <stongo> doc: I'm trying to figure out how to fix the call volume issue on the new FR android RC... they aren't using the same asound.conf as shr
Feb 03 14:08:06 <stongo> I'm trying to figure out where it's going wrong. pushing the earpiece output parameter just results in more popping and hissing
Feb 03 14:08:26 <DocScrutinizer> stongo: no idea about android here
Feb 03 14:08:57 <ChristW> DocScrutinizer: Ok, I will...
Feb 03 14:09:16 <stongo> docS: I realize that. i'm just trying to figure out if there was anything done besides adjusting the .state files
Feb 03 14:09:25 <stongo> to get rid of pop and hiss
Feb 03 15:18:05 <d1b> hi um who is doing some of the work to port openmoko the htc dream?
Feb 03 15:18:06 <d1b>  /g1
Feb 03 15:18:15 <d1b> looks awe3some
Feb 03 15:18:17 <d1b> awesome*
Feb 03 17:23:48 <slaxxer> the latest shr-unstable  working ok?
Feb 03 18:58:54 <stongo> does anyone know if ti_calypso_dsp_mode is set in kernel?
Feb 03 18:59:02 <stongo> not quite sure where to set this
Feb 03 19:07:03 <tomcatek> stongo: /etc/frameworkd.conf
Feb 03 19:15:56 <Serdar> tomcatek, so it's fso related?
Feb 03 19:16:18 <stongo> tomcatek: I wish I knew more about kernel development. I'm trying to help the android on freerunner group fix their call volume
Feb 03 19:16:40 <stongo> and I'm pretty sure their ti_calypso_dsp_mode setting is causing the problem
Feb 03 19:16:49 <stongo> I think it needs to be set to none
Feb 03 19:17:20 <Serdar> hi sleeping mickey|zzZzzz 
Feb 03 19:17:20 <stongo> but I don't know if anyone on the team can do it or not
Feb 03 19:17:26 <tomcatek> stongo: I'm using SHR
Feb 03 19:17:43 <stongo> tomcatek: I have been using SHR too
Feb 03 19:17:44 <Serdar> mickey|zzZzzz, got few minutes?
Feb 03 19:17:53 <stongo> but the new android distro is really good
Feb 03 19:18:16 <stongo> it would rival SHR if the call volume was fixed
Feb 03 19:20:15 <Serdar> there is no rival.
Feb 03 19:20:31 <Serdar> two different projects.
Feb 03 19:21:03 <Serdar> in general we work together.
Feb 03 19:21:22 <tomcatek> stongo: tried hacking any alsa settigs config?
Feb 03 19:21:35 <Serdar> that's the big deal of linux you have variousity.
Feb 03 19:32:16 <stongo> tomcatek: I just hacked alsa.conf , but people tested it and complained of hissing and cracking
Feb 03 19:32:39 <stongo> with just a slight increase in the actual volume of the voice through the earpiece
Feb 03 19:32:51 <stongo> which makes me think they have some sort of echo suppression on
Feb 03 19:56:15 <djp_> slaxxer: latest shr-unstable (3.2.2010) fails to make an outgoing call with my fr. i reverted to the previous release and all is well.
Feb 03 21:07:28 <cosmos> hi
Feb 03 21:08:23 <cosmos> is there a good step by step tutorial for connecting the FR[shr] on internet via usb cable?
Feb 04 01:12:29 <gnufs> hello all
Feb 04 01:13:02 <gnufs> i'm considering to finallytake the leap and get a freerunner A7+
Feb 04 01:13:39 <gnufs> i'm wondering about something that i didn't get from the wiki
Feb 04 01:14:15 <gnufs> is the jtag interface of the debug board kit for general use or is it specific to freerunner only?
Feb 04 01:14:28 <SpeedEvil> It can be used generally - it's a 'wiggler'.
Feb 04 01:14:28 <SpeedEvil> But
Feb 04 01:14:37 <SpeedEvil> you don't generally need it for FR
Feb 04 01:14:56 <SpeedEvil> unless you're actually doing stuff for which JTAG would be of use
Feb 04 01:15:13 <SpeedEvil> The recover y flash cannot be touched without the debug board - so ...
Feb 04 01:17:49 <gnufs> thanks for the info.
Feb 04 01:18:04 <gnufs> and, yes, i realize the debug board is not essential for FR use
Feb 04 01:18:18 <gnufs> i just would like to experiment with it a little :)
Feb 04 01:18:23 <SpeedEvil> :)
Feb 04 01:20:07 * gnufs finally decides to buy the thing after 4 hours of reading and discussion with FR users
Feb 04 01:21:33 <gnufs> it's not like i wasn't following it before
Feb 04 01:22:09 <SpeedEvil> Night. /me goes to sleep.
Feb 04 01:22:26 <gnufs> i had some chance to connect into it and to explore it myself in 2008
Feb 04 01:22:50 <gnufs> but i lost my phone recently and it seems have matured as a phone platform recently
Feb 04 01:22:53 <SpeedEvil> That was probably the neo1973 - but yes
Feb 04 01:22:57 <SpeedEvil> it has somewhat, true.
Feb 04 01:23:08 <SpeedEvil> It is a _lot_ better than it was in many ways.
Feb 04 01:23:35 <gnufs> good to confirm once again
Feb 04 01:23:47 <gnufs> since i'm going to be using it as my main phone
Feb 04 01:24:09 <gnufs> SpeedEvil: good night.
Feb 04 01:27:21 <gnufs> now if i can only understand how to place an order handheld-linux.com :)
Feb 04 01:28:04 <gnufs> oh, there it is!
Feb 04 01:35:41 <gnufs> aaaand, I ordered it! \o/
Feb 04 01:36:00 <ndnihil> congrats
Feb 04 01:36:56 <gnufs> one more step towards freedom :)
Feb 04 01:38:00 <gnufs> oh and btw
Feb 04 01:38:08 <gnufs> what's the best way to jailbreak it?
Feb 04 01:38:15 <ndnihil> erm
Feb 04 01:38:17 <ndnihil> no need
Feb 04 01:38:19 <ndnihil> it's open
Feb 04 01:38:25 <gnufs> :o
Feb 04 01:38:27 <gnufs> tell me more!
Feb 04 01:38:51 <ndnihil> not much more to say, it's as open a device as I've seen in a mobile phone
Feb 04 01:39:04 <ndnihil> heck, I've had laptops that were more closed
Feb 04 01:39:18 * ndnihil gives the finger to qualcomm
Feb 04 01:39:31 <gnufs> most laptops are
Feb 04 01:39:41 * ndnihil fingers broadcomm while he's at it
Feb 04 01:39:42 <gnufs> the whole bios scene on x86 for example
Feb 04 01:39:58 <gnufs> (except coreboot of course)
Feb 04 01:40:34 <ndnihil> true
Feb 04 01:40:44 <ndnihil> but there is the openbios project
Feb 04 01:40:56 <ndnihil> is/was, not sure if it's still active or not
Feb 04 01:41:38 <gnufs> it is
Feb 04 01:41:42 <gnufs> it's renamed to coreboot
Feb 04 01:41:46 <ndnihil> ah
Feb 04 01:42:00 <ndnihil> been a while since I've looked into it
Feb 04 01:44:09 <ndnihil> no worries about the FR being locked down in any way though
Feb 04 01:44:49 <gnufs> except for the gsm blackbox
Feb 04 01:44:49 <ndnihil> flash your favorite flavor of recent dist, stick in your sim, and it's pretty well done for basic phone functionality
Feb 04 01:45:14 <ndnihil> you get reasonable access to low/mid level GSM functions
Feb 04 01:45:23 <gnufs> hopefully in 5 years we'll have a new freerunner-like free phone that also has it's own free gsm stack
Feb 04 01:45:26 <ndnihil> you can even update the firmware on it
Feb 04 01:45:41 <ndnihil> (which is generally recommended if it's < 11)
Feb 04 01:46:05 <gnufs> ndnihil: a foss firmware?
Feb 04 01:46:41 <ndnihil> hrm, well it's named moko-NN, so it's possible, but to be honest I'm not sure on that one
Feb 04 01:47:08 <ndnihil> never needed to do anything other than update it
Feb 04 01:47:13 <gnufs> ndnihil: well, thanks for the info anyway
Feb 04 01:47:23 <gnufs> i'll look into that when i get a chance
Feb 04 01:48:07 <ndnihil> did you get the a6 or a7?
Feb 04 01:48:46 <gnufs> A7+!
Feb 04 01:48:48 <ndnihil> nice
Feb 04 01:48:49 <gnufs> http://losca.blogspot.com/2010/01/neo-freerunner-a7-now-available.html
Feb 04 01:48:55 <ndnihil> no need for buzzfix
Feb 04 01:49:11 <ndnihil> or #1024 bugfix
Feb 04 01:49:18 <gnufs> yeap :)
Feb 04 01:49:22 * gnufs is a happy camper
Feb 04 01:50:58 <ndnihil> it'll probably have current GSM firmware on it too
Feb 04 01:52:47 <gnufs> even if the gsm functionality is closed, i'm guessing it's much more paranoid-friendly than any other phone
Feb 04 01:52:56 <ndnihil> oh yeah, by far
Feb 04 01:53:26 * gnufs suspiciously looks at the people around
Feb 04 01:53:29 <gnufs> ooooor
Feb 04 01:53:33 <gnufs> it's a trap!
Feb 04 01:53:46 <ndnihil> being paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Feb 04 01:53:57 <gnufs> it certainly doesn't
Feb 04 01:54:35 <gnufs> talking about paranoia
Feb 04 01:55:00 <gnufs> is there a FR-to-FR gsm voice encryptiong app?
Feb 04 01:55:24 <ndnihil> not that I've seen.
Feb 04 01:55:38 <gnufs> now that would be cool
Feb 04 01:55:44 <ndnihil> but it'd be easy enough to set up an ssh tunnel and run voip over it
Feb 04 01:55:46 <gnufs> and also sounds like a great project
Feb 04 01:55:50 <ndnihil> quality would kinda suck
Feb 04 01:56:30 <gnufs> ndnihil: i specifically want over gsm
Feb 04 01:57:02 <gnufs> gsm is far more reachable than internet
Feb 04 01:57:14 <mjr> there's some old talk on the lists on it
Feb 04 01:58:05 <gnufs> mjr: but no resulting solution, or?
Feb 04 01:58:13 <mjr> basically gprs sucks too much for decent voip except maybe delayed push-to-talk (and there's some stability issues apparently as well), you'd need csd, which I hear isn't supported everywhere anymore and may cost a premium (not that bad here though)
Feb 04 01:58:51 <gnufs> oh, no, i'm not talking about gprs but simple gsm voice calls
Feb 04 01:59:10 <mjr> there was a german company whose csd solution was documented so you could possibly reimplement it
Feb 04 01:59:22 <mjr> that is flat-out impossible
Feb 04 01:59:34 <ndnihil> not entirely
Feb 04 01:59:44 <SpeedEvil> uou can't encrypt voice and have it secure and working
Feb 04 01:59:55 <SpeedEvil> analog encrypt
Feb 04 02:00:01 <SpeedEvil> the problem is you have:
Feb 04 02:00:21 <ndnihil> intercept the signal from the mic at the sound driver, run it through crypto algo, then pipe it back into the gsm module
Feb 04 02:00:49 <mjr> ndnihil, the gsm module does analog i/o and has a non-bypassable vocodec.
Feb 04 02:00:50 <ndnihil> good luck decrypting it on the other end
Feb 04 02:01:06 <SpeedEvil> mic->coder->transmitter->errors over air->reciever ->decoder->ISDN link->coder->transmitter ->errors->reciever ->DAC->speaker
Feb 04 02:01:13 <gnufs> true
Feb 04 02:01:13 <ndnihil> mjr: doesn't the cpu handle it before it gets to the gsm module?
Feb 04 02:01:14 <SpeedEvil> and this is simplified
Feb 04 02:01:19 <mjr> ndnihil, nnnno
Feb 04 02:01:23 <SpeedEvil> the codecs on the two sides may differ
Feb 04 02:01:24 <ndnihil> oh
Feb 04 02:01:42 <ndnihil> then how is it possible for the voice recording apps to work?
Feb 04 02:01:46 <SpeedEvil> the errors and the codecs act like crypto functions to non-voice-like signals.
Feb 04 02:01:51 <ndnihil> gsm pipes it back into cpu?
Feb 04 02:01:54 <gnufs> but that doesn't mean you can't do the encryptition in analog
Feb 04 02:02:02 <gnufs> but it certainly wouldn't be very secure
Feb 04 02:02:09 <gnufs> still something
Feb 04 02:02:12 <SpeedEvil> The codecs are designed to throw away non-voice-like signals. Which means you can't do the encryption in analog.
Feb 04 02:02:19 <SpeedEvil> As the codecs throw it away.
Feb 04 02:02:26 <ndnihil> hrm
Feb 04 02:02:59 <gnufs> hmm
Feb 04 02:03:01 <ndnihil> just go with encrypted txt messages
Feb 04 02:03:09 <ndnihil> for your shady dealings
Feb 04 02:03:09 <SpeedEvil> They are also designed to in the face of single bit errors produce something that sounds similar. This acts - in the face of not-very-voicelike signals that are carrying data - as a cryptographic hash
Feb 04 02:03:10 <gnufs> it doesn't have to be too insecure
Feb 04 02:03:13 <SpeedEvil> and screws your data.
Feb 04 02:03:20 <gnufs> if you're willing to use one time pads
Feb 04 02:03:32 <mjr> ndnihil, the mixer chip can direct the analog signal to/from the cpu (via a/d/d/a converters) as well as to the gsm chip
Feb 04 02:03:42 <ndnihil> mjr: gotcha
Feb 04 02:03:56 <SpeedEvil> Someone published a paper on this - and managed to get 1300bits/s over a GSM channel by the insane method of using a data-driven vocoder on one end - and a speech recogniser on the other end.
Feb 04 02:04:41 <gnufs> SpeedEvil: do you have any name on it?
Feb 04 02:05:54 <SpeedEvil> no.
Feb 04 02:06:05 <SpeedEvil> I can't seem to find the paper again.
Feb 04 02:06:34 <SpeedEvil> I probably linked to it - or was linked to it here in ~2008 - so in principle you could look for PDFs of that sort of time in the logs. but...
Feb 04 02:06:55 <mjr> ndnihil, you can also have the cpu do stuff in between (like alter your voice) but there are limits to how much you can usefully mangle it as SpeedEvil is busy explaining
Feb 04 02:07:03 <mjr> you could probably do Cylon Centurion to some extent
Feb 04 02:07:46 <gnufs> mjr: well, at least, is there such a program on FR?
Feb 04 02:08:17 <mjr> haven't really looked
Feb 04 02:08:42 <SpeedEvil> As far as I know, there are no speech effect altering thingys.
Feb 04 02:09:59 <gnufs> cool, another project idea.
Feb 04 02:10:33 <gnufs> we'll make android users cry in jealousy :)
Feb 04 02:10:53 <mjr> probably not, but go for it
Feb 04 02:10:59 <gnufs> :D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 04 02:59:57 2010