**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 13 02:59:56 2010
Apr 13 10:20:15 <AlexAnteMachina> raster, ping
Apr 13 10:25:11 <raster> AlexAnteMachina: yaow
Apr 13 10:31:15 <AlexAnteMachina> hey raster!
Apr 13 10:31:37 <AlexAnteMachina> your nickname makes me think you are the guy behind e
Apr 13 10:32:06 <AlexAnteMachina> I've seen some of your demo-videos on a freerunner
Apr 13 10:33:53 <AlexAnteMachina> And I'd like to know wether it really works on the freerunner. 
Apr 13 10:34:43 <AlexAnteMachina> As far as I know most software running very slow on that device.
Apr 13 10:44:29 <raster> AlexAnteMachina: eeek ... i've been discovered. i need a better hiding place
Apr 13 10:44:42 <raster> as for videos.. whhat videos
Apr 13 10:44:50 <raster> i think i barely ever made any on the freerunner
Apr 13 10:45:12 <AlexAnteMachina> so it aint working well on a freerunner?
Apr 13 10:45:39 <raster> that thing is (to be frank) a "piece of junk" when it comes to performance. (yes it's open... but ... it's like having an open 286. great. open... but you want a core i7)
Apr 13 10:45:43 <raster> dunno
Apr 13 10:45:48 <raster> my freerunners collect dust
Apr 13 10:46:09 <AlexAnteMachina> damn.
Apr 13 10:46:34 <AlexAnteMachina> I was hoping last 2 years of Development might have changed that.
Apr 13 10:46:37 <raster> i have infinitely better hardware at my disposal
Apr 13 10:46:50 <raster> and yes - 2 years of development have improved things...
Apr 13 10:46:55 <raster> liek full opengl-es2.0 engine for evas
Apr 13 10:47:00 <AlexAnteMachina> thats sooo sad.
Apr 13 10:47:04 <raster> of course u'd need... gles-2 hardware... and drivers
Apr 13 10:47:15 <raster> software engine has been improved - scalecache and so on
Apr 13 10:47:29 <raster> also neon asm going in right now - but neon is cortex-a8 lant and newer
Apr 13 10:48:20 <raster> the freerunner is - unfortunately - a dead bit of hw
Apr 13 10:48:26 <AlexAnteMachina> Do you know wether there will be any later version? 
Apr 13 10:48:40 <raster> no successor, a litany of hw issues, pretty ugly design, 2g only (useless for data)
Apr 13 10:48:45 <AlexAnteMachina> I've seen some of your design ideas. nice!
Apr 13 10:49:06 <PaulFertser> raster: hey :)
Apr 13 10:49:08 <raster> resistive ts (very poor response - not to mention losing lots of your screen to the bezel for touch)
Apr 13 10:49:20 <AlexAnteMachina> k. 
Apr 13 10:49:20 <PaulFertser> raster: any news wrt ES bugs on n900? ;)
Apr 13 10:49:24 <raster> AlexAnteMachina:  nup. openmoko is dead.
Apr 13 10:49:26 <raster> won't be
Apr 13 10:49:31 <AlexAnteMachina> :(
Apr 13 10:49:37 <raster> werner wants to do gta02-core
Apr 13 10:49:39 <AlexAnteMachina> that's so sad.
Apr 13 10:49:49 <raster> but thats really no improvement on freerunne r- and he needs to get production off the ground
Apr 13 10:50:08 <raster> of it ever does - it will literally be like making a 286 today - selling it and thinking it is useful :)
Apr 13 10:50:32 <raster> PaulFertser:  hey hey!
Apr 13 10:50:45 <PaulFertser> He does devolopment of "open hardware development process" itself. And he improved KiCad a lot as a sideeffect :)
Apr 13 10:50:59 <raster> AlexAnteMachina: i know i sound like i'm beating on the freerunner... i guess i am, but i have priorites other than just open
Apr 13 10:51:15 <raster> like something competitiive in the marketplace that actually attracts customers/users in large numbers
Apr 13 10:51:20 <raster> and open doesnt do that
Apr 13 10:51:23 <raster> it atttracts developers
Apr 13 10:51:26 <raster> but they also want grunt
Apr 13 10:51:27 <AlexAnteMachina> I really fell in love with that concept.
Apr 13 10:51:30 <raster> so u need something modern
Apr 13 10:51:37 <AlexAnteMachina> yep.
Apr 13 10:51:39 <raster> i'ts totally sad om failed
Apr 13 10:51:56 <AlexAnteMachina> so, what else would you recommend?
Apr 13 10:52:00 <raster> if it had continued - and actually produced modern phones with modenr soc's etc. etc. - there'd be something to talk about
Apr 13 10:52:10 <raster> as such - right now the most open thing around would be an n900
Apr 13 10:52:19 <raster> as tuch its bulky, and has its share of problems
Apr 13 10:52:28 <raster> its probably "open enough"
Apr 13 10:52:45 <raster> but if u like a freerunner the n900 isnt any bulkier
Apr 13 10:52:55 <AlexAnteMachina> Actually I'm using elive 2.0 and like e17 pretty much.
Apr 13 10:52:59 <raster> as such... for me the n900 is sluggish and "bad"
Apr 13 10:53:07 <raster> but as i siad.. i have much better toys at my disposal
Apr 13 10:53:09 <raster> :)
Apr 13 10:53:09 <PaulFertser> AlexAnteMachina: if you want usb host and/or cheap dev platform for robotics/other fun projects, FR is still the most attractive i'd say.
Apr 13 10:53:16 <raster> so i'm spoilt :)
Apr 13 10:53:34 <raster> yeah
Apr 13 10:54:11 <raster> fr - if u dont care about a phone - something u can stick on a table next to an iphone, or droid, or whatevr and proudly say "this is in the same ballpark", then freerunenr is ok
Apr 13 10:54:22 <raster> but if u want to be competitive... no chance.
Apr 13 10:55:34 <PaulFertser> For many research/university projects 2G might be enough. For <$200 you get really portable sturdy fully functional board with great screen, wifi, gps, 2g gsm. I'd say that's still damn attractive, and there's basically no alternative.
Apr 13 10:56:07 <raster> PaulFertser: very very very niche :)
Apr 13 10:56:23 <max_posedon> n900 is about 3 times expensive as freerunner now
Apr 13 10:56:26 <raster> if u dont want gps and gprs - get a smartq5
Apr 13 10:56:39 <raster> much faster - better hw and cheaper too ($150)
Apr 13 10:56:56 <max_posedon> imho, fr is still best toy now
Apr 13 10:57:04 <raster> max_posedon: hmm no. fr when it came out was $400... + shipping. n900 is $500 + shipping
Apr 13 10:57:12 <raster> (and cheaper shipping to boot)
Apr 13 10:57:19 <max_posedon> I speak about *now*
Apr 13 10:57:43 <max_posedon> 200$ vs 500$ (+ shipping + 20-30% tolls)
Apr 13 10:58:25 <raster> freerunner suffwers from the same tolls
Apr 13 10:58:31 <raster> and freerunner is by far a worse bit of hw
Apr 13 10:58:38 <raster> 2g only - first
Apr 13 10:58:41 <raster> lower res screen
Apr 13 10:58:47 <raster> much smaller tyouch area (beel)
Apr 13 10:58:48 <raster> no kbd
Apr 13 10:58:49 <AlexAnteMachina> lol... now I know freerunner isnt what I want and n900 isnt affordable to me.
Apr 13 10:58:52 <raster> worse battery life
Apr 13 10:59:03 <AlexAnteMachina> so I'll buy: nothing.
Apr 13 10:59:08 <raster> much much much slower cpu, and no gpu (until u have gl drivers for fr - it has no gppu)
Apr 13 10:59:10 <raster> etc. etc.
Apr 13 10:59:35 <raster> AlexAnteMachina:  then save up. any smartphone witht spending money on will cost between $500-$1000
Apr 13 11:00:27 <PaulFertser> AlexAnteMachina: do not you want to take part in some little kernel hacking or coding Vala middleware and UI? :-O
Apr 13 11:01:13 <AlexAnteMachina> lol... PaulFertser I have no skills in kernel hacking.
Apr 13 11:01:14 <PaulFertser> And have all your friends laugh at you when you can't pick up a call because the damn thing doesn't work with that particular git rev? )
Apr 13 11:01:47 <PaulFertser> AlexAnteMachina: all kernel hackers had no skills once ;)
Apr 13 11:02:04 <AlexAnteMachina> guess first I should learn some C
Apr 13 11:02:10 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, yep, "Небыло печали, да апдейтов накачали"
Apr 13 11:02:51 <max_posedon> but you know
Apr 13 11:02:58 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: hehe, indeed
Apr 13 11:03:17 <max_posedon> at the, end I can go all with FR what my friends to with their iphones (after year of usage)
Apr 13 11:03:42 <max_posedon> we both just want do calls sometimes, and read news on trains/buses
Apr 13 11:03:56 <max_posedon> nobody careas about anything more at the end
Apr 13 11:04:53 <PaulFertser> s/nobody/nobody among your friends/
Apr 13 11:06:53 <PaulFertser> I want to be in control of all layers of my devices. As much control as possible. And i know how it sucks when i need that control but can't get it, and it's not a matter of me spending some hours to learn something new, rather a matter of some fuckers purposedely closing everything up :|
Apr 13 11:07:31 <max_posedon> I just whant to say, that people have their pc's at home, at work
Apr 13 11:08:16 <max_posedon> and you want "kind" phone only when you travel, or need smth when you want spend time fast
Apr 13 11:08:53 <max_posedon> at the end, all drivers, people who travel by bike, just don't need most features that any smaprtphone can give him
Apr 13 11:09:58 <badcloud> max_posedon: I agree. I think in the end it boils down to reliability
Apr 13 11:09:59 <max_posedon> and as for long-travels, I'll prefer some netbook with 30h battery life
Apr 13 11:10:15 <badcloud> ...not functionality
Apr 13 11:11:13 <AlexAnteMachina> lol... max_posedon just get a motorbike battery and attach it to the deivce.
Apr 13 11:11:25 <AlexAnteMachina> that should run it pretty long.
Apr 13 11:11:26 <AlexAnteMachina> ;)
Apr 13 11:11:28 <max_posedon> AlexAnteMachina, and do what?
Apr 13 11:11:44 <max_posedon> what I can go with phone on bike?
Apr 13 11:12:13 <AlexAnteMachina> not a bike.
Apr 13 11:12:20 <AlexAnteMachina> just a large battery.
Apr 13 11:12:27 <max_posedon> ah)
Apr 13 11:12:39 <AlexAnteMachina> the bigger the battery the longer it will last
Apr 13 11:12:58 <max_posedon> AlexAnteMachina, I'm trying buy touchbook for long travels
Apr 13 11:13:13 <max_posedon> its not so "huge" as your suggest)
Apr 13 11:13:31 <AlexAnteMachina> I had a really big battery for my eee 701 which made it run for over 8h on 900mhz.
Apr 13 11:14:05 <max_posedon> sorry, I need smth with 30h)
Apr 13 11:14:11 <max_posedon> s/need/whant
Apr 13 11:14:15 <max_posedon> *want*
Apr 13 11:14:36 <AlexAnteMachina> lol... i would not recommend a tiny 701 eee for longtime usage.
Apr 13 11:15:11 <AlexAnteMachina> staring at that tiny 7" display gives a dull feeling after 1 to 2 hours.
Apr 13 11:20:49 <badcloud> anyone know if shr-stable will be based more on testing or unstable?
Apr 13 11:24:06 <JaMa> badcloud: testing
Apr 13 11:24:46 <badcloud> JaMa: good :P
Apr 13 11:25:04 <badcloud> not to downplay unstable, it's great
Apr 13 11:25:25 <badcloud> but for a safer ride, y....eah I'd go with testing too
Apr 13 11:25:26 <JaMa> badcloud: unstable is where all development happen, testing is just older version of unstable+picking fixes and stable will created from testing (after some testing :)) when it reaches MS1 goals
Apr 13 13:52:55 <sola> please help me, when trying to backup/falsh free runner getting error code -71
Apr 13 14:59:27 <denkbert> greetings
Apr 13 20:49:32 <tim_abell> wow, what a rollercoaster on the lists re tango.
Apr 13 20:49:39 <tim_abell> off to bed to dream of forks now
Apr 13 23:46:28 <swoody> out of curiosity, is there any distro(s) which are considered lighter and more responsive than the rest?
Apr 14 01:02:15 <zeroedout> swoody: qtmoko using 2.6.32 (v20) is the most responsive, just make sure to swapiness set really low or no swap at all
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 14 02:59:56 2010