**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 09 02:59:57 2010
Jul 09 07:23:50 <rhkfin> Any tips for three empty buttons on the main screen? SHR-U from a week ago. At some stage the contacts/dialer/messages just disappeared. 
Jul 09 07:23:53 <rhkfin> Running upgrade now
Jul 09 14:16:01 <kereoz> hi
Jul 09 14:16:30 <kereoz> anybody knows how to increase the sound volume on the GTA02 ?
Jul 09 14:16:41 <kereoz> I can barely hear the people I'm calling
Jul 09 14:16:56 <kereoz> even though the sound appears to be at the maximum level in alsamixer
Jul 09 14:23:01 <gena2x> kereoz: alsamixer has many controls
Jul 09 14:23:53 <gena2x> kereoz: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem
Jul 09 14:24:03 <gena2x> kereoz: check all controls.
Jul 09 14:25:27 <gena2x> kereoz: pay attention to sound path diagram.
Jul 09 16:38:07 <kereoz> gena2x: thatks
Jul 09 16:38:16 <kereoz> s/t/n
Jul 09 16:40:03 <ftn> Hey there. According to the latest shr-u release notes, I must install qi from http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ to avoid errors but I can see two there: qi and qi-ubi. Do you know what's the difference?, please
Jul 09 17:26:52 <PaulFertser> ftn: yes
Jul 09 17:26:59 <PaulFertser> ftn: qi-ubi is if you use ubi on nand.
Jul 09 17:27:19 <PaulFertser> ftn: ubi proved to be not reliable enough, so do not use ubi on nand, and do not use qi-ubi.
Jul 09 17:31:22 <undrwater> ubi is better on sd?
Jul 09 17:34:48 <gena2x> undrwater: ubi is raw flash-only fs.
Jul 09 17:36:10 <undrwater> gena2x: so it looks like it's not recommended in any place?
Jul 09 17:37:29 <gena2x> undrwater: i didn't do research on this questing, but according to Paul, seems yes.
Jul 09 17:42:37 <undrwater> okie...i was curious...but i trust Paul's judgement
Jul 09 17:43:11 <gena2x> undrwater: he is very competent. and also can describe what is actual problem if we'll ask him :)
Jul 09 18:09:19 <PaulFertser> gena2x: :)
Jul 09 18:09:40 <PaulFertser> gena2x: undrwater: the actual problem was massive filesystem corruptions observed by JaMa on forced reboots.
Jul 09 18:11:02 <PaulFertser> undrwater: i mostly just pass around pieces of information nowadays, not doing research/development.
Jul 09 18:12:26 <gena2x> PaulFertser: interesting. thanks.
Jul 09 18:12:33 <undrwater> PaulFertser: good to have you doing that! :)
Jul 09 18:14:09 <undrwater> i wish the freerunner supported 3g....i am so frustrated looking for a phone
Jul 09 18:14:19 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: what are you going to use dreambox for? Do you watch much tv anyway?
Jul 09 18:14:23 <undrwater> or maybe i wish i had never seen the freerunner
Jul 09 18:14:36 <gena2x> undrwater: :)
Jul 09 18:14:42 <PaulFertser> undrwater: what can you say about the latest reviews of n900?
Jul 09 18:15:13 <undrwater> looks good'ish, but doesn't work on at&t
Jul 09 18:16:21 <undrwater> there are some intel atom phones being developed...that looks hopeful
Jul 09 18:16:51 <PaulFertser> undrwater: what's the problem with at&t? Isn't n900 a 4-band 3G gsm phone that works anywhere?
Jul 09 18:17:19 <undrwater> apparently not with at&t
Jul 09 18:18:23 <PaulFertser> undrwater: ah, it works but without 3G, i see. That's you americans always inventing something incompatible ;)
Jul 09 18:19:01 <PaulFertser> undrwater: for 3G connectivity you can attach a usb stick to FR...
Jul 09 18:19:01 <undrwater> it's all my fault!! :)
Jul 09 18:19:17 <undrwater> PaulFertser: :-O
Jul 09 18:19:25 <undrwater> wasn't aware of that...what stick?
Jul 09 18:19:49 <PaulFertser> undrwater: a 3G "dongle" == hsdpa modem with usb interface
Jul 09 18:20:20 <undrwater> chip is placed in dongle?
Jul 09 18:20:28 <undrwater> sim card
Jul 09 18:20:47 <PaulFertser> undrwater: well, most probably you'll need two sims: one for 2G inside FR, and one for 3G inside the dongle.
Jul 09 18:21:15 <PaulFertser> It might be a solution, of course it's suboptimal, but still.
Jul 09 18:21:44 <undrwater> i'll look into it...thanks for the idea...told you i was glad you're still talking in here :)
Jul 09 18:22:14 <gena2x> hm interesting, why not use bluetooth gsm modem?
Jul 09 18:22:37 <PaulFertser> gena2x: are those widely available?
Jul 09 18:23:28 <PaulFertser> undrwater: this guy is using one, and described it on his user page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Lindi
Jul 09 18:25:15 <PaulFertser> Well, mentioned. "Described" would be overrating :)
Jul 09 18:25:43 <lindi-> Well. it works using exactly the same commands on my desktop and laptop too
Jul 09 18:25:49 <lindi-> so nothing openmoko specific to document :)
Jul 09 18:25:58 <gena2x> hmm. bluetooth gsm modem is any modern phone actually :)
Jul 09 18:26:13 <undrwater> Huawei E169 USB 3G stick 
Jul 09 18:26:44 <PaulFertser> gena2x: with any modern phone in your pocket the desire to use FR is diminishing, unfortunately.
Jul 09 18:27:00 <lindi-> PaulFertser: not at all :)
Jul 09 18:27:12 <lindi-> it's getting more stable all the time
Jul 09 18:27:22 <lindi-> you just have to pick the right pieces of software :P
Jul 09 18:27:29 <gena2x> yes. i like fr too.
Jul 09 18:27:32 <PaulFertser> lindi-: the thing is that the majority of users count on NM and such automagic to get those dongles to work.
Jul 09 18:27:45 <gena2x> i still not finished it setup :)
Jul 09 18:27:52 <lindi-> PaulFertser: it works with NM too
Jul 09 18:27:58 <PaulFertser> lindi-: hope you'll give a try to fsogsmd soon ;)
Jul 09 18:28:12 <lindi-> PaulFertser: i think i'll write my own
Jul 09 18:28:16 <lindi-> unfortunately :(
Jul 09 18:28:25 <gena2x> lindi-: what a nice idea!!!!
Jul 09 18:28:26 <PaulFertser> lindi-: do not like vala too much?
Jul 09 18:28:28 <gena2x> :)
Jul 09 18:28:31 <gena2x> share please :)
Jul 09 18:28:39 <lindi-> PaulFertser: use of vala and dbus and trying to support so many other modems got me scared
Jul 09 18:28:56 <lindi-> and lack of interest in watchdogs
Jul 09 18:29:29 <gena2x> +++ vala and dbus are really pain.
Jul 09 18:29:31 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i've read some parts of it and i think i liked it.
Jul 09 18:29:38 <lindi-> of course making generic software is great and all but in this case it does not really seem to help
Jul 09 18:29:43 <gena2x> but dbus is surround us...
Jul 09 18:29:48 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i think fsogsmd doesn't really depend on dbus.
Jul 09 18:30:52 <PaulFertser> btw, conventional phones aren't rock solid either, so we're not that far behind here.
Jul 09 18:30:56 <lindi-> PaulFertser: you talk to it using unix socket?
Jul 09 18:31:00 <lindi-> like gsmd
Jul 09 18:32:00 <PaulFertser> lindi-: no. But one can add that without much pain. Is dbus really a pita?
Jul 09 18:32:59 <lindi-> PaulFertser: yes, dbus-monitor is debugging tool that shows only successful method calls :)
Jul 09 18:33:10 <lindi-> PaulFertser: if you make a typo in method name it won't show it
Jul 09 18:33:52 <lindi-> PaulFertser: dbus can not be upgraded without reboot. 
Jul 09 18:33:56 <lindi-> PaulFertser: and https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19796 is still open
Jul 09 18:34:16 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i like your attitude
Jul 09 18:34:21 <gena2x> constant values parsing from/to/strings is stupid.
Jul 09 18:34:41 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, I don't know for now, I haven't TV, and "digital TV
Jul 09 18:34:48 <max_posedon> in Belarus is a Myth
Jul 09 18:34:52 <lindi-> PaulFertser: i think dbus can still be improved but maybe not in this project
Jul 09 18:34:53 <max_posedon> so, it will be just a toy)
Jul 09 18:35:04 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: wanna get a Sat antenna?
Jul 09 18:35:39 <max_posedon> in next 5 years - I don't)
Jul 09 18:36:39 <PaulFertser> lindi-: yes, i understand what you're talking about. Quite a reasonable path: getting things right and solid, even if limited and not for the broadest range of usecases.
Jul 09 18:37:22 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: i think i can get one for some reasonable money.
Jul 09 18:38:10 <max_posedon> I don't need money, I prefer use it as a toy. And imho its just bad to sell anything which I got for free.
Jul 09 18:38:29 <max_posedon> it will be just a mark, to remind me about me young when I'll be old)
Jul 09 18:38:50 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: i can get a sat antenna for you with discount.
Jul 09 18:40:21 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: though transfering it by train might be tricky.
Jul 09 18:40:49 <max_posedon> until I'll have my own appartments its just useless.
Jul 09 18:42:38 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: clamp (струбцина) can help you to attach it to a balcony without drilling anything.
Jul 09 18:43:41 <max_posedon> Thanks, I'll think about it, not sure that I really want it, but I'll think.
Jul 09 18:44:07 <mickeyl> lindi-: sounds good. will be interesting to see your design. if you only support one modem, you can quite cut some corners
Jul 09 18:44:11 <max_posedon> I might be play with it few years, and then just give it to my parents, when digital TV come true.
Jul 09 18:44:44 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: "Got thirteen channels of shit on the T.V. to choose from"
Jul 09 18:44:51 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: do you get the reference? ;)
Jul 09 18:45:09 * gena2x recall how he attaced hit sat attenna 10 years ago. and were searching for satellites with old ntv reciever.
Jul 09 18:45:17 <gena2x> s/hit/his/
Jul 09 18:45:28 <gena2x> for several days...
Jul 09 18:45:46 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, Sorry, what "reference" means in your question?
Jul 09 18:46:11 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: that's from "The Wall" album by Pink Floyd
Jul 09 18:46:27 <max_posedon> ah))
Jul 09 18:46:32 <gena2x> and it is still hang on balcony used 10 times may be...
Jul 09 18:46:59 <PaulFertser> gena2x: did you manage to get hotbird or something to watch European channels?
Jul 09 18:47:40 <gena2x> PaulFertser: oh, i managed. without any polar things, manually rotating antenna :)
Jul 09 18:47:52 <undrwater> lindi-: your 3g stick works well on FR?
Jul 09 18:48:00 <gena2x> heh, it is still funny for me...
Jul 09 18:49:27 * gena2x have no idea what to watch on tv, except few news and sport, but sport is better to do not watch :)
Jul 09 18:50:49 <gena2x> european news easy to read in internet.
Jul 09 18:51:05 <max_posedon> I would like to watch some interesting English-spoken channels.
Jul 09 18:51:20 <max_posedon> it might be near anything. Just in background.
Jul 09 18:51:21 <gena2x> while you reading - you can read only things you find interesting, not that shown to you.
Jul 09 18:53:01 <gena2x> hm, may be to learn english. but this needs attention.
Jul 09 18:53:15 <gena2x> and dictionary and sustitles.
Jul 09 18:59:03 <lindi-> undrwater: yes
Jul 09 18:59:28 <lindi-> mickeyl: would be nice if I could implement the same API
Jul 09 19:01:39 <mickeyl> lindi-: oh yeah
Jul 09 19:02:26 <lindi-> mickeyl: however, currently I can manage with my antique ogsmd. the largest problem is call audio quality
Jul 09 19:02:39 <mickeyl> hehe
Jul 09 19:02:47 <mickeyl> that's something even you won't be able to fix with a new gsm server ;)
Jul 09 19:02:52 <lindi-> indeed
Jul 09 19:08:08 <undrwater> lindi-: is your device voice and data? or how are you doing it?  and do you need the usb_modeswitch?
Jul 09 19:10:25 <lindi-> undrwater: it does voice too yes
Jul 09 19:10:47 <lindi-> undrwater: but I have not used voice functionality much, only tested a few times
Jul 09 19:11:00 <lindi-> undrwater: I think I'm using modeswitch yes
Jul 09 19:11:34 <undrwater> interesting...this opens up other possibilities too
Jul 09 19:16:52 <undrwater> found one for at&t on ebay for $35US
Jul 09 19:23:26 <lindi-> undrwater: don't even think about using voice unless you know how to configure asterisk
Jul 09 19:35:41 <undrwater> lindi-: i have done...but not willing to just for that :P still...it would be interesting to have one of these devices
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 10 02:59:56 2010