**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 17 02:59:56 2010 Jul 17 10:30:44 I'm compiling stuff with distcc on Neo FreeRunner now but linking needs much memory Jul 17 10:30:54 do you recommend swap on uSD or on USB stick? Jul 17 10:46:17 swap via nfs is good too Jul 17 10:48:54 I have a lame NFS server at home :-) Jul 17 11:00:48 does anyone here use android? Jul 17 11:31:18 hey.. i have sort of a license / commercial question. Is it possible to "prevent" any copy-cats / take-overs by a bigger commercial company for a open source hardware device? Something like the protective aspect of the GPL2. Or how did OpenMoko deal with that issue, if thats any... Jul 17 11:39:48 occ4m: the schematics are licensed under CC-BY-SA, which include an analogous "share-alike" clause Jul 17 11:42:56 Weiss: ok, but lets say Company XY would re-create a WikiReader from scratch, new layout of the schematics, it could do so? There isn't anything like the bad and common patent mechanism to prevent this? Jul 17 11:43:12 like a CC-BY-SA for "ideas" Jul 17 12:24:30 occ4m: nothing to protect against that, because the whole point is that companies have that freedom Jul 17 12:24:53 they would have to give you the same rights as they have, AIUI Jul 17 14:52:33 occ4m: protect yourself by being so good at what you do, that even if you release everything, there's no other to understand it :) Jul 17 15:19:50 rhkfin: I once had to use some software which used exactly the opposite strategy.. Jul 17 15:20:13 i.e. it was so **** that noone would want to copy it Jul 17 15:20:27 but still it had a parallel port dongle Jul 17 15:22:14 but, it's often possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you created something by means other than patents and the like Jul 17 15:24:59 Weiss: right, that's why when doing Open Source, you need to do the opposite & make it so good :) Jul 17 15:25:27 And then not infringe a patent granted next year. Jul 17 15:27:40 how open is openmoko to new ideas for new devices and what would be the best place and time to discussion such ideas? is there any conference or such thing? Jul 17 15:27:57 2008 maybe Jul 17 15:28:04 heh Jul 17 15:28:16 There is no forseeable likelyhood of new devices. Jul 17 15:28:59 What sort of device were yo uthinking of? Jul 17 15:30:41 occ4m: right, they will not do it anyway so you might as well tell us what you're thinking about.. Jul 17 15:30:45 ;) Jul 17 15:32:09 the WikiReader is rather successful isn't it? And it's also not directly related to a mobile phone.. thats why i was wondering how much discussion is going on for new devices Jul 17 15:32:36 wikireader is relatively successful, yes Jul 17 15:32:53 I question how much it's still selling though. Jul 17 15:33:01 Would be interested. Jul 17 15:33:02 no matter how big Jul 17 15:33:11 OM is not going to do mobile phones again Jul 17 15:33:15 once bitten, twice shy... Jul 17 15:33:33 There was a gap in the market for mobile phones opensource. Jul 17 15:33:52 Relatively early on - android partially filled that. Jul 17 15:34:02 Then n900 came along later, and is more open. Jul 17 15:34:03 yep. timeframe over, thanks for playing Jul 17 15:34:16 The remaining opportinities in the mobile space are elsewhere. Jul 17 15:34:27 too few crazy people for whom full openness does matter Jul 17 15:34:37 the big mob is satisfied with semiopen Jul 17 15:34:43 that pretty much kills every business plan Jul 17 15:35:13 right... and more or less for the same reason, i would like to discuss this idea in a rather private environment, to have that advantage of something new Jul 17 15:35:31 Is it a mobile phone type computer? Jul 17 15:35:32 and rather in real life as well Jul 17 15:35:35 no Jul 17 15:36:02 You may find ##electronics and #edev a worthwhile place to ask questions in. Jul 17 15:36:26 In short - any computer that can run linux is a fairly non-trivial project to design. Jul 17 15:37:00 what about devices that run erlang? Jul 17 15:37:46 (i know, its not a OS, i wonder if there are low-level implementations by ericson Jul 17 15:37:49 Erlang is a high-level language? Jul 17 15:38:03 GEnerally few HLLs have been implemented in hardware Jul 17 15:38:17 The few attempts to do so have been at best commerical failures. Jul 17 15:38:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_iAPX_432 springs to mind. Jul 17 15:40:57 erlang was build for the telecommunication sector, i think, so i was wondering on what hardware it actually runs Jul 17 15:41:34 I would suspect none. Jul 17 15:41:41 For example, there are no C++ machines Jul 17 15:41:53 and no java machines Jul 17 15:42:07 there are java bytecode interpreter machines - which is something quite different Jul 17 15:55:19 Anyone remember what software creates gps track files like this: http://pastebin.com/ZHrujpXk - My guess is it's a Moko app.. Jul 17 15:58:05 tangogps? Jul 17 15:58:23 IIRC you can make gpsbabel read files like tha Jul 17 15:59:20 no, isn't tango.. Jul 17 16:00:46 tangogps creates logs with (only) lines like this: 54.406871,9.968737,12.9,1.1,343.8,1.3,2009-05-09T07:38:25Z Jul 17 16:01:47 maybe omgps.. but can't try, it won't start.. "right Jul 17 16:02:04 My guess is that those tracks are from omgps.. Jul 17 16:06:01 tangogps track logs can be converted like this: gpsbabel -x simplify,error=0.001k -x discard,hdop=3.1 -i xcsv,style=../tangogps.style -o gpx $1 $1.gpx Jul 17 16:06:37 does someone need the style file? Jul 17 16:09:57 I'm ok with the tangogps converter.. I guess i could try to build a stylefile for omgps to get the tracks.. Jul 17 17:33:07 watisit Jul 17 17:58:55 * |if3_ changes away reason from "I'm afk!" to "I'm afk!" Jul 17 18:07:23 * |if3_ changes away reason from "I'm afk!" to "asdf" Jul 17 18:32:54 anyone using android on neo, know how to install apps? is it done via browser? Jul 17 18:39:17 almien: this channel's not dead unlike the android port on FR. Jul 17 18:39:29 ;) Jul 17 18:44:52 oh i just followed a link saying android was N'th most popular distro on OM, and installed it to test. did I miss some history? Jul 17 18:46:11 is there not an app app Jul 17 18:46:20 :) Jul 17 18:48:07 digg around in there with the arm of an android an find it Jul 17 18:48:15 well I assumed you just view market.android.com in android's web browser, but there's no install button on those apps' pages Jul 17 18:48:46 android on a freerunner is arm4 Jul 17 18:49:18 my opinion is that mast all apps are now arm?? 18?? Jul 17 18:49:52 aren't apps written in java? what's the significance of processor type? Jul 17 18:50:21 almien: yes, the apps should work on FR too. Jul 17 18:50:43 almien: but should might mean anything. Google sucks so much that one can expect anything from them. Jul 17 18:51:47 ok, so original question: should you see an 'install' button on the market.a.com web page or am I looking in wrong place Jul 17 18:55:07 its saterday here so maybe ask again later Jul 17 18:58:31 unblessed devices such as the FR are not allowed to participate on the market Jul 17 18:58:35 android market, that is Jul 17 18:58:56 you can't even get in with the official developer devices from google :) Jul 17 18:59:29 (paid apps, that is. free should work) Jul 17 19:01:10 ok it looks like the market website was a red-herring: there should be an "android market" application in the list of default programs, but on the openmoko there isn't such an app installed Jul 17 19:05:06 (looks like downloading .apk files from browser works though!) Jul 17 20:07:40 android market is not available for non-Google-branded devices Jul 17 20:08:18 you can at most get the app from an emulator running custom Android image Jul 17 20:25:58 except for these http://code.google.com/p/android-on-freerunner/wiki/Applications Jul 17 20:33:30 slaxxer: 'A full featured video player that plays mp4 format files. There is a free trial version you can download from the home page.' sounds non-free. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 18 02:59:56 2010