**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 18 02:59:56 2010
Jul 18 06:39:48 <PaulFertser> gena2x: you're doing great!
Jul 18 07:22:24 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: Hi. Do you by any chance know anything about head-mounted displays? I'm wondering if i can practically use something to read books during those long hours i spend in the underground.
Jul 18 07:30:26 <PaulFertser> Hm, FR lacks composite video out
Jul 18 08:51:37 <PaulFertser> lindi-: that mupdf is really fast! Big thanks for the suggestion!
Jul 18 08:53:48 <PaulFertser> lindi-: the only wishlist is some TS-friendly optional interface (like doubleclick to move to the next page e.g.)
Jul 18 09:25:55 <Gabrys> hi
Jul 18 09:26:57 <Gabrys> I've read somewhere that when you leave OpenMoko charging it stops charging after reaching 100% battery and then (even with AC plugged in) starts to discharge to 0% when it turns off, is it still true?
Jul 18 09:27:55 <Gabrys> I'm asking because I have left my Neo AC plugged compiling some stuff for some hours and it just quitely powered off and after powering on it was completely discharged.
Jul 18 09:28:28 <Kamping_Kaiser> i've not seen that behaviour (usb charging)
Jul 18 09:28:59 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: please see Battery_Q_and_A
Jul 18 09:31:06 <Gabrys> PaulFertser: according to this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers#Does_it_mean_if_i_leave_my_phone_plugged_it_will_eventually_fully_discharge_the_battery.3F
Jul 18 09:31:09 <Gabrys> it should not happen
Jul 18 09:31:26 <Gabrys> what triggers the re-charging again? is it in kernel?
Jul 18 09:31:31 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: of course it doesn't on FR. 
Jul 18 09:31:42 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: no, that's voltage drop alone.
Jul 18 09:31:54 <Gabrys> so in hw
Jul 18 09:32:12 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: yep, provided pcf50633 is properly configured.
Jul 18 09:32:22 <Gabrys> PaulFertser: so both hw and kernel :-)
Jul 18 09:32:34 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: triggering is hardware-only.
Jul 18 09:33:00 <Gabrys> PaulFertser: is it possible that CPU consumes so much power during compilation that even with AC plugged it gets discharged
Jul 18 09:33:33 <Gabrys> I don't know why it get discharged completely, it should never happen :-(
Jul 18 09:34:09 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: no, CPU can't consume that much ever.
Jul 18 09:34:41 <Gabrys> in fact I had a USB hub with a pendrive also plugged in when this happened
Jul 18 09:35:01 <Gabrys> but the USB hub was powered and the power was transfered to neo
Jul 18 09:35:11 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: strange. Was FR allowed to draw 400mA from it?
Jul 18 09:35:17 <Gabrys> I'm not sure 
Jul 18 09:35:32 <PaulFertser> If it's only 100mA, that would explain it.
Jul 18 09:35:36 <Gabrys> when I connected it, dmesg stated it switches some drain to 100mA
Jul 18 09:35:45 <Gabrys> but I manually switched it to 500mAh
Jul 18 09:35:51 <Gabrys> with om 
Jul 18 09:36:06 <Gabrys> but as I played with hub multiple times, I'm not sure
Jul 18 09:36:14 <Gabrys> maybe that time I didn't
Jul 18 09:36:32 <Gabrys> so Neo needs more than 100 mA?
Jul 18 09:37:03 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: yes
Jul 18 09:37:18 <Gabrys> but less than 500?
Jul 18 09:37:53 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: Gabrys it depends on the GSM current mostly.
Jul 18 09:38:08 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: if GSM is not actively transmitting anything, 400mA is more than enough.
Jul 18 09:38:49 <Gabrys> I didn't placed or receive any calls during that time, but screen, backlight, wifi, bluetooth and cpu was turned on
Jul 18 09:39:16 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: certainly more than 100mA, but i'm not sure if it's more than 400mA.
Jul 18 09:39:35 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: you can easily test it by looking at current_now while running from battery.
Jul 18 09:39:55 <Gabrys> ok, let's see 
Jul 18 09:40:40 <Gabrys> -43312 when plugged in
Jul 18 09:41:50 <Gabrys> 301125 when plugged in
Jul 18 09:42:05 <Gabrys> s/when/when not/
Jul 18 09:42:05 <apt> Gabrys meant: 301125 when not plugged in
Jul 18 09:42:16 <Gabrys> is this 301 mA?
Jul 18 09:42:25 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: yes
Jul 18 09:42:31 <Gabrys> ok 
Jul 18 09:42:45 <Gabrys> so let's assume I forgot to set the allowable drain back to 500mA
Jul 18 09:43:06 <Gabrys> or AC adapter was not strong enough 
Jul 18 09:43:07 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: why doesn't it work automatically? Broken hub?
Jul 18 09:43:49 <Gabrys> PaulFertser: I'm not sure, when plugging hub dmesg says current is switched to 100mA
Jul 18 09:44:01 <Gabrys> when plugging AC adapter it switches to 1000
Jul 18 09:44:17 <Gabrys> hub was not originally powered, that was my modification
Jul 18 09:44:45 <Gabrys> but its PCB was ready for this, just not connected to any socket
Jul 18 09:44:56 <Gabrys> so I guess they also did powered on the same PCB
Jul 18 09:44:58 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: hehe, nice
Jul 18 09:50:24 <Gabrys> now I check the current_now with hub and with charging limit raised to 500
Jul 18 09:50:37 <Gabrys> and it's still positive :-(
Jul 18 09:50:51 <Gabrys> between 7000 and 9000
Jul 18 09:51:11 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: strange, probably your charger is weak?
Jul 18 09:51:17 <Gabrys> I guess so 
Jul 18 09:51:19 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: or something else is limiting it?
Jul 18 09:51:44 <Gabrys> it states 5V 550mAh though
Jul 18 09:52:00 <Gabrys> hub does not have any devices now
Jul 18 09:54:36 <Gabrys> ok, this is strange, but explains my problem
Jul 18 09:54:56 <Gabrys> I need to get better AC adapter for my hub first
Jul 18 09:55:30 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: are you sure there's nothing that can artificially limit the current?
Jul 18 09:55:43 <Gabrys> in hw? no
Jul 18 09:56:08 <Gabrys> hub is so simple it just have 5V from AC adapter supplied to all USB ports
Jul 18 09:56:40 <Gabrys> so even it consumes to much energy or the adapter is too weak
Jul 18 09:56:56 <Gabrys> given I have the curlimit of usb and battery set to 500 mA on neo
Jul 18 09:58:11 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: would be interesting to attach an ampermeter in between.
Jul 18 10:07:38 <amicer> hHeya
Jul 18 10:07:51 <amicer> You there?
Jul 18 10:07:53 <amicer> How to copy all files from /sdcard/rootfs- to /p3 so it wont look like /p3/rootfs- ?
Jul 18 10:08:39 <PaulFertser> amicer: cp -r /sdcard/rootfs-/{*,.*} /p3/
Jul 18 10:08:46 <PaulFertser> amicer: and stop being annoying, please
Jul 18 10:09:18 <amicer> Okay, i just search for channel where pepole arent AFK/give anwers
Jul 18 10:09:42 <PaulFertser> amicer: on irc you should wait for the answer. Sometimes it takes hours.
Jul 18 10:09:57 <PaulFertser> amicer: moreover your question is nothing OM-related.
Jul 18 10:10:10 <amicer> i am installin OM atm 
Jul 18 10:10:19 <amicer> i need to copy everything manually from adb shell
Jul 18 10:10:32 <amicer> also cp: cannot stat '/sdcard/rootfs-/{*,.*}': No such file or directory
Jul 18 10:13:13 <PaulFertser> I'm eating a carrot atm, should i start from the thick side or not?
Jul 18 10:13:36 <amicer> i prefer the other side
Jul 18 10:14:20 <amicer> mmm, what about cp -r /sdcard/rootfs-/* /p3/ then again with /sdcard/rootfs-/*.*
Jul 18 10:15:12 <PaulFertser> amicer: i think *.* wouldn't work with default bash configuration of skipping dotted files.
Jul 18 10:15:28 <amicer> " "
Jul 18 10:15:34 <Gabrys> *.* will also match ..
Jul 18 10:16:05 <amicer> whatever
Jul 18 10:16:15 <Gabrys> just cp /sdcard/rootfs-/.[^.]*
Jul 18 10:16:16 <amicer> i got it with /sdcard/rootfs-/*
Jul 18 10:16:19 <amicer> and recursive
Jul 18 10:16:40 <amicer> not onto fastbooting to openmoko
Jul 18 10:16:48 <Gabrys> you don't usually have anything hidden in rootfns
Jul 18 10:17:50 <PaulFertser> Gabrys: why didn't my command work?
Jul 18 10:18:11 <Gabrys> PaulFertser: maybe it's not bash?
Jul 18 10:18:22 <Gabrys> and busybox doesn't understart {}
Jul 18 10:18:27 <Gabrys> I don't know :-)
Jul 18 10:19:50 <PaulFertser> Hm, probably. 
Jul 18 10:24:29 <amicer> K got rootfs on ext3, now i should just flash it yeah?
Jul 18 10:49:28 <gena2x> PaulFertser: thanks :)
Jul 18 11:44:00 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: i contemplated making a device with a hmd once - and the lens system is probably the most important in not making it tiring to use
Jul 18 11:51:19 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: indeed
Jul 18 11:52:03 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: the matrix resolution plays a role too: FR's matrix is quite dense and big but it's still only 640x480.
Jul 18 11:52:59 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: i took a look at myvu devices, they're considerably cheap, but only VGA res (and not usable with FR as they require composite video).
Jul 18 11:59:21 <PaulFertser> Man, my room is seriously sick: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/sickroom.jpg
Jul 18 12:06:07 <CVirus> woah
Jul 18 12:08:45 <rhkfin> PaulFertser: indeed your room's sick, it even infected my browser and caused it to crash...
Jul 18 12:08:56 <PaulFertser> rhkfin: wonderful
Jul 18 12:08:57 <PaulFertser> :)
Jul 18 12:09:14 <PaulFertser> rhkfin: your browser protects you well :D
Jul 18 12:10:05 <rhkfin> ;)
Jul 18 12:51:01 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Jul 18 12:51:30 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: Onmy 'to be developed' stack is a VNC over bluetooth composite output module.
Jul 18 12:51:53 <SpeedEvil> To be combined with a tiny display module, for the obvious.
Jul 18 12:52:31 <SpeedEvil> There are RGB modules - and highres - but for sillymoney
Jul 18 12:52:34 <SpeedEvil> however.
Jul 18 12:52:47 <SpeedEvil> For reading non-technical stuff on the train - largish print is OK.
Jul 18 12:53:26 <SpeedEvil> I found interestingly that 300wpm text is quite readable (for me) - on a CRT - one word painted after teh other 
Jul 18 12:53:31 <SpeedEvil> in thesame spot
Jul 18 12:53:36 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: yes, i've read a book or two on FR, and it was ok.
Jul 18 12:54:27 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: interesting experiment. Any particular advice how to reproduce?
Jul 18 12:55:31 <SpeedEvil> split into words
Jul 18 12:55:41 <SpeedEvil> display a word for 100ms, blank for 100ms
Jul 18 12:55:43 <SpeedEvil> repeat
Jul 18 12:55:59 <PaulFertser> I understand the idea, just thought you've some software handy or a sample text.
Jul 18 12:56:30 <SpeedEvil> naah
Jul 18 12:56:35 <SpeedEvil> This was aaaaaages ago.
Jul 18 12:56:53 <SpeedEvil> When the earth was barely cooled, and a 2400 modem was fast.
Jul 18 12:58:13 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: heh, ok :) Thanks again for the pointer.
Jul 18 13:35:43 <almien> android on freerunner is showing 0% battery (for a fully-charged battery) and shuts-down as soon as USB is removed. Is this normal?
Jul 18 15:38:40 <panicking_mike> hi guys
Jul 18 15:38:48 <panicking_mike> I'm looking some kernel developer
Jul 18 15:38:52 <panicking_mike> with some experience
Jul 18 15:39:13 <SpeedEvil> ##kernel might be one place - though maybe some hang out here too.
Jul 18 15:39:32 <SpeedEvil> (I have submitted one patch to the kernel that has been accepted - but it was to fix a typo)
Jul 18 15:39:37 <SpeedEvil> What for?
Jul 18 15:39:48 <panicking_mike> some new embedded device
Jul 18 15:39:55 <panicking_mike> bsp, wifi, bluetooth
Jul 18 15:39:56 <panicking_mike> etc
Jul 18 15:40:03 <SpeedEvil> #edev may also be worthwhile asking around in.
Jul 18 15:40:14 <SpeedEvil> So you want to bring up a board that does not at the moment run linux?
Jul 18 15:40:32 <SpeedEvil> Does the processor boot, and you're just looking to add some peripherals?
Jul 18 15:40:52 <panicking_mike> the board can run linux on it, but wifi and bluetooth must be tested and integrated
Jul 18 15:40:55 <panicking_mike> on that for example
Jul 18 15:41:00 <panicking_mike> and some minor stuff
Jul 18 15:42:23 <SpeedEvil> #edev is probably a sane place to ask. Maybe also #meego and #maemo-dev #mer I suspect is probably dead. #android may not be useless. ##kernel I've not found of much use.
Jul 18 15:42:41 <SpeedEvil> oh
Jul 18 15:42:44 <SpeedEvil> #ddwrt too
Jul 18 15:43:10 <SpeedEvil> also - lurk here - maybe someone will pop up witha clue.
Jul 18 15:43:23 <SpeedEvil> This is just the software, or hardware too?
Jul 18 15:44:30 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: btw, do you remember panicking_mike is the one that brought FR users the Android experience? :) Naturally he seeks a hacker among the guys he knows first :)
Jul 18 15:44:40 <PaulFertser> panicking_mike: hey :) Alive and kicking? ;)
Jul 18 15:45:07 <panicking_mike> Yes
Jul 18 15:45:10 <panicking_mike> to much work to follow
Jul 18 15:45:13 <SpeedEvil> Ah - no - I've not actually done android on any platform.
Jul 18 15:45:21 <panicking_mike> I have asked werner collaboration for other project
Jul 18 15:45:26 <SpeedEvil> Hence I diddn't recognise thename.
Jul 18 15:45:27 <panicking_mike> but I'm still waiting feedback
Jul 18 15:45:28 <panicking_mike> from him
Jul 18 15:45:39 <lindi-> panicking_mike: I probably read your ARMv4 porting page to help make chromium-browser run on openmoko :)
Jul 18 15:45:58 <SpeedEvil> Also- is this an actual job opportunity, or a hobby project.
Jul 18 15:46:03 <lindi-> (or was it just a wiki listing android stuff?)
Jul 18 15:46:07 <SpeedEvil> Not interested myself - but...
Jul 18 15:46:19 <SpeedEvil> Well - to be more accurate - interested but unable.
Jul 18 16:21:31 <martix> I just added 2.6.29, 2.6.32 and Qi columns, please upgrade informations about your uSD card at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards#Cards_by_Vendor
Jul 18 16:23:13 <lindi-> martix: hmm, that page crashed my iceweasel :)
Jul 18 16:24:23 <lindi-> hmm no, it just slowed down a lot
Jul 18 16:24:57 <lindi-> martix: you should definitely mention Qi version!
Jul 18 16:25:56 <martix> lindi-: I dont use Qi and I dont remember any uSD problems related to different Qi versions
Jul 18 16:26:28 <lindi-> martix: yes but when the problems appear then there's no way to figure out which version caused it?
Jul 18 16:28:28 <martix> then reporter should note which version cause problems
Jul 18 16:29:15 <gena2x> matrix: may be add .34 tab too? :)
Jul 18 16:29:56 <lindi-> maybe a huge table is not the way to go :)
Jul 18 16:30:13 <lindi-> Just list each card and add WORKS/DOES-NOT-WORK reports after each one
Jul 18 16:30:50 <gena2x> table fits my screen :)
Jul 18 16:30:58 <lindi-> gena2x: on openmoko?
Jul 18 16:31:13 <gena2x> i have 2560 resolution :)
Jul 18 16:31:59 <gena2x> really rare thing where it is usable.
Jul 18 16:32:36 <gena2x> but may be just add once cell with kernel version.
Jul 18 16:32:45 <martix> gena2x: maybe, but is there any difference (in uSD card problems) between .23 and .24?  ...*martix or Martix ;-)
Jul 18 16:33:23 <gena2x> ops :)
Jul 18 16:33:31 <martix> lindi-: we can delete columns with old versions
Jul 18 16:33:48 <gena2x> martix: sorry
Jul 18 16:34:07 <martix> keep only actually used versions
Jul 18 16:34:38 <gena2x> i mean change |yes|yes|no|yes|workaround| list to something like |ver1,ver2,|
Jul 18 16:36:35 <lindi-> Martix: that might be a good idea
Jul 18 16:37:00 <lindi-> Martix: maybe older cards (especially those that did not work!) should still be listed separately below table
Jul 18 16:37:48 <gena2x> ok, forget, not real issue.
Jul 18 16:38:15 <Martix> and it seems like on this page are mixed GTA01 and GTA02 (Glamo) results
Jul 18 16:40:54 <gena2x> hehe "I'll soon give it a try. --Sol 20:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC) "
Jul 18 18:22:42 <Baldon> openmoko
Jul 18 19:06:24 <ftn> howdy. Just installed ScummVM on shr-t but executing it as "scummvm" fails with the following error "WARNING: SDL_SetVideoMode says we can't switch to that mode (No video mode large enough for 640x400)!".  Any hint?, pls
Jul 18 19:14:31 <radekp> ftn: you probably need to rotate screen
Jul 18 19:14:52 <radekp> ftn: "xrandr -o 1" command should do it if you are in X
Jul 18 20:14:45 <radekp> JaMa: hi, i am now building your 2.6.32 kernel from gitorious, one thing we might have forgotten is the FIFO stage patch
Jul 18 20:14:56 <radekp> http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=blobdiff;f=drivers/mfd/glamo/glamo-fb.c;h=21165d97fb2a0e2ded78c6978b225ecd2041232d;hp=44ab9a39787a613b2122b33ad08a05d442e2aac0;hb=b90406de472c1aa5371ab593a2bb79136d5de658;hpb=bdaf2752eb06b600098f89661baa3e478cd52105
Jul 18 20:15:07 <radekp> or am i wrong?
Jul 18 20:15:21 <radekp> ehm oki, let's leave it for tommorow :)
Jul 19 01:18:23 <ZenWalker> hi
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