**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 13 02:59:57 2010 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 13 04:13:39 2010 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 13 04:14:14 2010 Aug 13 07:25:28 oy vey Aug 13 07:26:11 anyone alive? Aug 13 07:27:52 rooly: why do you ask? Aug 13 07:28:12 cause life is so extremely rare to find in the universe Aug 13 07:28:36 but more importantly, why does the fr suck so much Aug 13 07:39:54 rooly: i guess there're several different reasons Aug 13 07:40:25 rooly: the more important being that there're too few qualified hackers interested in smartphone functionality with free software and hardware. Aug 13 07:40:25 yeah yeah, i know, not enough man power, sub-standard hardware, several unreconcilable hardware bugs, etc Aug 13 07:40:54 rooly: i mean for some niche markets FR doesn't suck, and i think those researchers are quite happy with it. Aug 13 07:41:30 rooly: but as a general smartphone it proved to be uncool, exactly because not many capable people are interested in it. Aug 13 07:41:35 i've been an ardent user for the past 3 years, i've risen and fallen with the om tide Aug 13 07:41:49 just, everything seems just shy of there Aug 13 07:41:59 and shr is like hurd, it's always not quite done Aug 13 07:42:08 rooly: yep :/ Aug 13 07:42:20 biggest mistake was to drop 2k7 Aug 13 07:42:23 rooly: hey ho from this part of universe. fr is not suck :) Aug 13 07:43:00 rooly: i'm not sure 2k7 had a chance of being maintained and improved. Aug 13 07:43:12 PaulFertser, oh i know that all too well Aug 13 07:43:14 rooly: probably it got somewhere but not quite, and wasn't maintainable. Aug 13 07:43:50 rooly: i think shr folks had exactly that plan on maintaining it. But, well, i'm sure there're strong reasons why they changed their aims. Aug 13 07:44:43 so i just installed hackable1 Aug 13 07:44:47 coming from qtmoko Aug 13 07:45:52 PaulFertser, does anyone actually know why they dropped 2k7? Aug 13 07:46:01 and by 'they' i mean any group that has Aug 13 07:48:22 rooly: it depends on who you ask :) Aug 13 07:48:47 rooly: I personally don't understand why people even bother trying to maintain their own distribution with limited man power Aug 13 07:49:05 but of course it is an interesting learning experience and they can do it Aug 13 07:50:00 rooly: disclamer: I installed my debian system in 2008. I use minimal non-debian software and most of the bugs are in the non-debian part :) Aug 13 07:51:05 It's interesting to see what happens to distributions like openwrt when their target hardware becomes powerful enough to run normal debian easily Aug 13 07:53:39 yeah, no problem throwing debian on the phone Aug 13 07:53:42 perfectly alright with that Aug 13 07:54:09 but isn't the gui stack, the interface to it as a *phone* the most important aspect? Aug 13 07:54:41 if you want phone just use qtmoko. Aug 13 07:54:47 i do Aug 13 07:54:52 cause i need a phone Aug 13 07:54:52 lindi-: openwrt is very cool for building custom images. I think it'll still be one of the best options for many embedded targets. Aug 13 07:55:14 rooly: i use FSO2 + Emacs on Debian Aug 13 07:55:21 And that's my only cellphone. Aug 13 07:55:30 works okay? Aug 13 07:55:35 Sorta Aug 13 07:55:39 finger friendly? Aug 13 07:55:52 right, i need better than just sorta Aug 13 07:55:55 rooly: as i run FSO2 from git HEAD i sometimes face new problems... Aug 13 07:56:03 rooly: i never used stylus Aug 13 07:56:03 ahh, i see Aug 13 07:56:08 ditto Aug 13 07:56:14 PaulFertser: yes that was just a "wonder what will happen in 10 years" thought Aug 13 07:56:51 rooly: I wanted to first make the underlying software stable before writing GUI stuff Aug 13 07:58:33 lindi-: btw, SHR is not a separate distro. It's OE, and so it has many benefits for FR comparing to debian. There's certainly a point in using OE for many FR-related usecases. Aug 13 07:58:41 But you know that Aug 13 07:58:53 Just wanted to highlight they're not "maintaining their own distro". Aug 13 07:59:00 For fun and experience. Aug 13 07:59:15 so has anyone managed to get hackable1 to make a phone call? Aug 13 07:59:26 I'm sure that's damn easy Aug 13 07:59:39 With socat + manual sysfs access :) Aug 13 08:00:08 PaulFertser: well is OE really a distro? Aug 13 08:01:18 lindi-: hm, what do you mean? Aug 13 08:02:17 * rooly misses the old om2k7 Aug 13 08:02:25 garsh that was such a nice os Aug 13 08:02:57 and got it working just fine, cept no phone calls Aug 13 08:03:10 PaulFertser: it's not in http://distrowatch.com/ Aug 13 08:03:30 lindi-: i'm not sure what you are implying. Aug 13 08:03:45 PaulFertser: well I just wonder why it is not there if its a distro :) Aug 13 08:04:02 it lists a huge number of distros nobody has even heard of Aug 13 08:04:38 lindi-: i mean OE pretty much like Gentoo. If Gentoo is a distro, then i guess OE is a distro too. OE has all properties of a distro. Aug 13 08:05:10 PaulFertser: I still haven't decided if gentoo is a distro :) Aug 13 08:05:45 's not like there's really a meaning to the term "customized gentoo" Aug 13 08:05:51 it's a tricky case. gentoo does not itself include software Aug 13 08:06:06 and for me distro is usually a collection of software integrated to work together Aug 13 08:06:39 PaulFertser: but gentoo is indeed included in distrowatch Aug 13 08:08:24 lindi-: gentoo includes custom patches and integration work. Aug 13 08:09:20 PaulFertser: yep Aug 13 08:09:32 lindi-: it's just that most sources are fetched from the official sites, not from gentoo mirrors. It's just a matter from where to download a sha-1 verified file, not of any importance. Aug 13 08:09:33 PaulFertser: and they have releases Aug 13 08:10:07 PaulFertser: well it has some subtle freedom issues too Aug 13 08:10:31 since gentoo is not distributing the software they can include software that can't be legally distributed Aug 13 08:12:14 ...Debian also does deploy ms fonts and flash that way Aug 13 08:12:26 lindi-: legality issues != freedom issues Aug 13 08:13:08 PaulFertser: well certainly if copyright law does not permit me to distribute something that really limits my freedom Aug 13 08:13:28 Defiant: the installers for those things are not part of debian Aug 13 08:13:57 lindi-: if you're suggesting that while using Gentoo it's a bit hard to clearly mark a line and avoid non-free software, then i can agree (though i think it was somewhat changed recently). Aug 13 08:14:14 Defiant: 'ttf-mscorefonts-installer' is in contrib which is not officially debian Aug 13 08:14:46 PaulFertser: yeah I'm hinting that. I did report some bugs and they were clearly not handled with high priority Aug 13 08:14:53 PaulFertser: whereas in debian they are release critical bugs Aug 13 08:14:56 lindi-: agree, that's sad Aug 13 08:15:09 PaulFertser: well different distros have different priorities Aug 13 08:15:18 perfectly understandable Aug 13 08:17:15 * rooly is still upset he can't have is gtcake and eat it too Aug 13 08:17:58 see? get it? Aug 13 08:18:11 it's a joke about not being able to use om2007 Aug 13 09:29:44 that all sounds rather gloomy, are things really that bad? Aug 13 20:12:34 hi Aug 14 01:01:14 hello, anybody here? Aug 14 01:01:41 i am a new comer and want to burn NEOPhysis image on my freerunner Aug 14 01:02:20 when i uncompress the rootfs .tar.gz, what I found is the root fs directory instead of a .jffs2 image Aug 14 01:02:55 how to make the root directory into jffs2? or how to burn it to freerunner correctly? Aug 14 01:03:13 could anyone answer my questions? thanks **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 14 02:59:57 2010